On the ability of UAVs to "cancel" surface ships

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On the ability of UAVs to "cancel" surface ships

If we look at the SVO as a stage for the latest military technology, then the prima donna's place has definitely been taken by His Majesty the UAV. There is no doubt that the emergence drones Radically changed the concept of combined arms combat. At the same time, the use of unmanned boats (UCBs) allowed the Ukrainians to achieve a number of significant successes at sea, despite the fact that the balance of forces there was completely unfavorable for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

The above creates a sense of the omnipotence of UAVs and unmanned aerial vehicles. Perhaps the following example is particularly illustrative here. tanks: A heavy and very well-protected combat vehicle proves completely helpless against a swarm of light UAVs. No matter what systems you equip a tank with, its destruction is simply a matter of increasing the number of the attacking swarm. Neither the Mangal, nor the APS, nor the EW Today, 20-25 small FPV drones won't protect a tank from an attack. However, an anti-tank drone would cost around $1200, meaning 30 such drones would cost $36, and a tank would cost millions of dollars.

Clearly, in this case, David defeats Goliath. The tank, of course, still remains an important weapon system for ground forces, but its tactics have to be radically altered. However, appetite comes with eating, and many VO readers want to defeat a bigger and more expensive Goliath. That's why, in the comments to VO articles on naval topics, one often sees opinions that naval surface ships fleets are outdated, have outlived their usefulness and are doomed to fall under the blows of UAV swarms.

But is it?

At first glance, surface ships have absolutely no chance of countering a swarm of drones. Their anti-aircraft missiles They are designed to intercept aircraft and anti-ship missiles; they are too large and expensive to use against UAVs, making them impractical. It's clear that in a combat situation, no one will think about this; the ship and their own lives are more important anyway, but the SAMs' ammunition supply is very limited, and it simply won't be enough for a large "swarm" of UAVs. artillery The systems on the ships are relatively few in number and will not repel a massive drone attack.

At the same time, a modern UAV's warhead, containing 50-90 kg of explosives, won't sink a destroyer or aircraft carrier, but it can disable its equipment—for example, radar panels or the fuel and ammunition supply systems on the flight deck, rendering the ship combat-ready. Then, even if the missiles sent after it "hot on its heels" don't sink it, the ship will be forced to withdraw and undergo repairs for months, if not years.

And what can one argue with that? It's all true. However, in my opinion, UAVs have not become, and will not become, the ultimate solution. weapons Naval warfare. They are incapable of "cancelling" surface ships, neither now nor in the foreseeable future. And to understand why this is so, we need to consider two important features of modern drones.

About UAV speed


One of the main reasons for the relative affordability of modern UAVs is their engines. For example, the export version of the Iranian Shahed 136 can cost $30,000, while its MADO 550 engine costs $20,000—two-thirds of the Shahed's total cost. The MADO 550 engine is relatively simple, inexpensive, and fuel-efficient, giving the 200-kilogram Shahed 136 a range of up to 2,000 km.


But it is also low-power, only 50 hp, and, of course, is not capable of giving the UAV a high speed, which the Shahed 136 has at only 180 km/h, while the cruising speed is even lower, around 150 km/h.

This accounts for the increased flight time compared to other weapons. Let's say we need to attack a ship detected 350 km from the launchers. A Shahed missile would have to fly for almost two hours, a subsonic cruise missile with its cruising speed of 800-900 km/h would have to fly for 23-26 minutes, and a hypersonic anti-ship missile with an average enroute speed of 5,000 km/h would cover the same distance in 4 minutes and 12 seconds.

Accordingly, modern UAVs have flight times several times, if not an order of magnitude, longer than those of missiles. And nothing can be done about this, because increasing the UAV's speed would require a completely different engine, which would require a completely different fuel supply, and all of this would have a negative impact on the drone's size and cost.



I'm not saying that half-drones, half-missiles are unnecessary. Today, our country produces, for example, such an interesting munition as the Geran-5, capable of reaching speeds of up to 600 km/h. And the warhead has almost doubled in weight—90 kg versus 50 kg for the Shahed. But at what cost?


Its range is 900 km, or 1000 km according to other sources—a drop of almost half that of a full-fledged cruise missile, despite the Geranium 5's dimensions being very close to those of a full-fledged cruise missile. Obviously, the cost of the Geranium 5 is significantly higher than that of the Geranium 2 (the Shahed's equivalent).

Do we need the Geranium 5? Of course we do. The Geranium 5 may be similar in size to the Kalibr cruise missiles, but its production costs are significantly lower—it has a cheaper engine, a less complex guidance system, and is much lighter. Clearly, the Geranium 5 has its tactical niche: hitting targets that are sufficiently protected from the Geranium 2, but don't require or justify the use of a full-fledged cruise missile.

I'm citing the Geranium 5 as an example not because there's anything wrong with it, but because it perfectly illustrates the point: if we try to give a UAV the properties of a cruise missile, we'll end up with a cruise missile, not a UAV. Given its size, production complexity, and cost, creating a Kalibr, let alone a Zircon, with the Geranium 2's dimensions and price is as impossible as creating a Formula 1 racing car priced like a Lada VESTA (although AVTOVAZ is working on it, and with some success).

The simple conclusion is that if we want to attack the enemy with a large number of drones, then these drones will take a long time to reach the enemy.

About UAV guidance systems


All existing UAVs can be roughly divided into two categories. The first category includes those similar to manned aircraft, and they are distinguished by their reusability. Such UAVs are designed to reach the enemy, fire their munitions, and then return to the airfield or runway—and repeat this cycle until they are shot down or the fighting ends. Examples of such UAVs include the Turkish Bayraktar and the Russian Okhotnik.

The second category of UAVs is a type of flying munitions and is essentially disposable. The purpose of these UAVs is to reach their target and deliver a direct hit. The most prominent examples of this category are our Geran and the Iranian Shahed. Some models of these "kamikaze" UAVs can be equipped with self-defense systems, including short-range air-to-air missiles, but this doesn't change their core purpose.

Moreover, the overwhelming majority of comments suggest attacks on naval formations using Category II UAVs. Let's talk about them.

Perhaps the most obvious guidance system is found in FPV drones. In fact, the name itself is self-explanatory, as FPV stands for First Person View. The drone operator wears special goggles or a helmet, and the FPV drone's cameras become their eyes. For drones with a range of 5-10 km, nothing more is generally required. Perhaps a thermal imager, so that they can operate not only during the day but also at night.

However, for UAVs designed for long-range mischief, cameras alone are certainly not enough. In fact, the first prototypes of these drones had no optical cameras at all, as they were seen as a cheap alternative to cruise missiles designed to hit stationary targets. And for this, a UAV doesn't need much intelligence—it's enough to understand its position in space, which a simple GPS navigator would suffice.

But a GPS navigator is not a panacea. To accurately navigate, it needs to "see" four or more satellites, which isn't always possible when flying at low altitudes. Short-term signal loss, mountains, and, in some situations, even urban development can also interfere. Furthermore, the enemy can employ electronic warfare, including so-called "spoofing," which allows the UAV to receive signals it perceives as satellite signals, but which are not actually satellite signals. This distorts the UAV's position, and it fails to engage its targets.

Therefore, in UAVs, the GPS navigator is combined with an inertial guidance system (INS). It should be noted that INS have been used in missiles for a very long time. Its advantage is that an INS is completely autonomous, so its operation cannot be influenced from the outside. Its disadvantage is that without external correction, an INS always operates with an error that accumulates over its operation. Accordingly, the further a missile, guided by an INS, flies, the greater its deviation from the target will be.

A method for compensating for this INS deficiency was devised back in the last century. To correct this, a radio altimeter was used to scan the terrain over which the missile was flying, and then the resulting terrain "picture" was compared with the flight map loaded into its electronic "brains" before launch. This allowed the missile to independently and autonomously refine its spatial position and thereby correct the accumulated INS error. The missile's route was also planned so that it passed over several "reference points" during its flight, where terrain features allowed for precise location confirmation.

But for a UAV, such a system would probably be too complex, while a combination of INS and GPS is "cheap and cheerful," which is just right. However, the system described above has two significant drawbacks.

Firstly, the INS + GPS guidance system can only engage stationary targets, such as buildings and structures or, in the naval context, a docked ship. However, it cannot, in principle, engage a ship at sea, because no one knows where the ship will be when the drone approaches.

Secondly, given the use of electronic countermeasures, even against a stationary target, the combination of INS and GPS will not always ensure the required accuracy.

Therefore, modern UAVs are supplemented with INS and GPS cameras and thermal imagers. The operating principle is as follows: using INS and GPS, the drone approaches the target area. The cameras are then activated, and there are two options. In the first, guidance is performed by the operator, who takes control of the UAV. In the second, things are more sophisticated: the operator quickly scans the area, selects, and marks a target for attack. For example, a stationary radar might select its radar surface as a target. Then, the drone's guidance is performed automatically, using artificial intelligence (AI).


The advantages of this design are obvious. Firstly, the UAV's accuracy and selectivity are significantly improved. It can now be deployed not only into a structure but also into a specific element. Secondly, the UAV can be used against not only stationary but also moving targets. And thirdly, the camera and transmitter are significantly less expensive than a traditional radar-based homing head. This, incidentally, is something the missile must carry and consumes considerable energy, further increasing the missile's size, weight, and cost.

Disadvantages as a continuation of advantages


However, it's important to understand that no advantage comes for free. The INS + GPS + optics system also has its fair share of drawbacks. Guidance is difficult at night, visibility is limited by weather and atmospheric conditions, and the main drawback is that guiding the drone using optics eliminates the "fire and forget" principle. To guide the drone to its target, there must be a stable communication channel between the drone and its operator. Here, we have two options.

Option No. 1 - radio control. This is the simplest method when using a drone at a relatively short distance. However, controlling a UAV at long range has two critical drawbacks. First, the UAV's signal is relatively weak, requiring a chain of repeaters in the air, and any disruption to this chain will result in complete loss of control of the drone. Second, such a system is unsuitable for attacking warships equipped with powerful electronic warfare systems.

Even in land combat, the use of electronic warfare systems less powerful than those on ships has necessitated the transition to controlling drones via fiber optic cable. While this method is perfectly acceptable for an FPV drone with a range of tens of kilometers, for a drone flying over seas at 500+ kilometers, maintaining those 500+ kilometers of cable in the air (it can't be placed on water!) is absolutely impossible.

Accordingly, the only thing left is Option #2: Using a global satellite communications system capable of providing broadband internet without any fiber optic communications. In this case, the UAV doesn't need to carry any cables, and jamming the communications is nearly impossible. Yes, we currently have a system that can jam Starlink, but its coverage area is limited—publicly available data suggests 20 square kilometers. At the same time, target acquisition can be achieved from a few dozen kilometers away; beyond that, the drone will operate on autopilot, and Starlink won't be particularly necessary.

Overall, Starlink is a fantastic solution for large drone swarms. It's great in every way, except for one thing: to use Starlink, you need... a Starlink. And how many countries have their own Starlink? Yes, there's Europe with its OneWeb, but that network isn't open to just anyone. There's China, which is building a Starlink-like system and will definitely build one someday. The problem is that building a Starlink is incredibly expensive, requiring both high technology and a massive satellite constellation. Starlink currently has approximately 10,783 satellites, while OneWeb has 654.

So it turns out that UAVs are a cheap weapon, and equipping them with a camera and satellite receiver is inexpensive, by missile standards. But building a space system that would make this "cheapness" possible is simply beyond the capabilities and affordability of many countries.

The Russian Federation is a good example here. The benefits and necessity of "space" broadband internet have never been questioned, and the Ukrainian Armed Forces' successful use of the Starlink communications system for military purposes is crying out for a domestic equivalent. And we have Rassvet.


Everything would be fine, but there are currently six experimental satellites and 31 production satellites in orbit. Thirty-two were launched, but one of the 16 launched in March 2026 has given up the ghost. Of the remaining ones, not all have reached their planned orbit, although, as far as I understand, it's possible they will.

A dozen of these satellites form an orbital chain stretching from the Arctic to Antarctica (or vice versa, but that's not important), roughly following the east coast of Africa and then across Eurasia. In the Western Hemisphere, the orbit passes over the ocean. The coverage is relatively limited, but the Moscow region is included. And so, according to A. Gritsenko, CEO of JSC "Northern Crown" Information Space Center:

When a subscriber is located in the Moscow region, this orbital structure will provide a total of up to 3,2 hours of radio contact per day. The maximum continuous radio contact time will be 52 minutes, and the maximum standby time will be up to 10,7 hours.

What does this mean? On the one hand, it means that even in its truncated form, Rassvet is useful for striking stationary targets in Ukraine. We simply need to time the launch of our UAVs so that by the time they reach the target, one of Rassvet's satellites is providing broadband communications over it. If our Geraniums are deployed to the attack area in a timely manner, a few dozen minutes will be sufficient to destroy a stationary target.

On the other hand, according to calculations by Rassvet's creators, 250 satellites will be needed to provide basic coverage. Compared to Starlink, it's a pittance, but when will we even achieve that? In 2023, the plan was to launch 150-180 satellites per year on 10-12 rockets starting in 2025. In fact, nothing was launched in 2025, and in 2026, only two rockets and 32 satellites... I think we'll get our own space broadband internet sooner or later. But it's more likely to be late than early.

And so it turns out. The US has broadband internet, and China will have it, but European countries couldn't handle it on their own and have banded together to achieve their goal. We're just getting there, and we'll get there someday. What can we say about all the other countries?

So what if we don't have our own Starlink equivalent, what's left? That's right, we'll go begging for it. And, of course, some country friendly to the US and NATO will gain the right to use that same Starlink for military purposes. And they will, but only as long as the US and NATO consider that country friendly and its military goals responsive to the needs of the "golden billion." If, however, the country suddenly ceases to be useful, let alone enters into direct confrontation with NATO, then Starlink terminals will very quickly become useless, good only for bashing the helmets of enemy infantry...

Accordingly, building an entire weapons system on a resource that can be taken away at any moment is frankly a poor solution, and such considerations will undoubtedly hinder the creation of naval drone swarms worldwide. Especially since the current "holders" of satellite communications systems providing broadband internet—the US and Europe—have no real need for such swarms, as they still maintain maritime dominance.

But let's assume that wireless broadband internet becomes universally available one day. What will happen then?

On the problems hindering the successful use of UAV swarms against surface fleets


Today, all esteemed readers of "VO" can be roughly divided into two groups. The first group is convinced of the omnipotence of space reconnaissance and believes that enemy ships and naval formations can be tracked 24/7. The second camp knows that space reconnaissance is far from omnipotent and does not provide omniscience. But I'm not going to argue now whether one camp is right or the other. Let's consider the use of a drone swarm against a carrier strike group (CSG) in both scenarios.

Option 1 - we control the movement of the AUG. Let's assume we have a satellite system capable of tracking enemy ships' movements in real time. Then, of course, we'll be able to deploy a drone swarm of the required number to the AUG and overwhelm it. Defense and cause damage to its ships, including the aircraft carrier. But... Why, and most importantly, why?

Although the AUG is the fleet's most powerful multi-purpose formation (or rather, the AUS is the most powerful, but that's a scaled-up version of the AUG), it's by no means invincible. Strictly speaking, if:

1. The coordinates of the AUG are known,

2. The AUG is within range of our shore-based anti-ship weapons,

3. We have enough weapons to penetrate the AUG's air defense/missile defense.

The carrier strike group will be destroyed. And the question arises: why bother harassing the carrier strike group with drone swarms if we can simply destroy it with hypersonic anti-ship missiles? War is not a time for half measures. If there's a chance to either damage the enemy's ships or destroy them, the choice is clear: destroy them!

Here, of course, one could argue that drones are much cheaper than hypersonic weapons. But this low cost is only apparent, precisely because of the long flight time. If a carrier strike group reaches its attack point, say, 550 km from the coastline, then Geranium 2 missiles would have to fly well over three hours to reach it, and Geranium 5 missiles – over an hour (our launchers aren't located on the beach, after all). During this time, the aircraft carrier would have time to launch several groups of aircraft, which would carry out an attack regardless of whether we damage the carrier with Shahed missiles or not. However, a strike with hypersonic missiles, capable of traveling 600-700 km in 7-9 minutes, could hit the carrier strike group before it can launch its missiles. Aviation into the air, thereby preempting its attack. So yes, hypersonic missiles will be more expensive than drones, but they will inflict far greater losses on the enemy and, under certain circumstances, could disrupt its attack, "saving" us the loss of people and various assets that would be killed or destroyed during such an attack.

And here someone might object that yes, of course, it's better to be healthy and rich than poor and sick. And that hypersonic missiles are wonderful, but what about countries that don't have the money for them? To this I would answer that if a country has the money for its own space communications network with broadband internet and a second network of reconnaissance satellites capable of monitoring the ocean 24/7, then the money for hypersonic missiles will somehow be found.

Option 2: We do not control the movement of the AUG and can only establish short-term contact with it, the time of which, again, we cannot choose in advance.

In this situation, it would be useful to turn to the Soviet Navy's experience of "catching" enemy carrier-carrying groups that were conducting training missions off our Far Eastern coast in the 80s. And this experience was completely disappointing for drone swarms.

What happened? They detected the strike group's movement toward home shores, but lost contact. Our forces are being put on alert, including a regiment, if not an entire division, of the Pacific Fleet's naval missile-carrying aviation. Satellite reconnaissance is being intensified, reconnaissance aircraft are scrambled, ships are heading to sea, and those already at sea are being assigned new combat missions. The fleet is forming a "hunting net" to detect the naval formation of our "sworn friends" from another continent.

But the enemy is cunning; it knows the transit times and orbits of our satellites and hides from them. It also manages to evade reconnaissance aircraft. But it's not omnipotent, and the sonar system of one of our submarines managed, albeit at the extreme range, to identify the noise of a nuclear aircraft carrier.

AUG found!

And then, with all possible and impossible speed, a regiment of Tu-22M3 missile carriers, which had been waiting for the signal to “take off at low start,” that is, in full readiness for takeoff, takes off into the air.


And he goes to greet his dear guests, but it turned out... differently.

There were times when the "welcoming committee" literally fell on the heads of the Americans, who hadn't had time to prepare for it. But there were also times, and more than once, when our missile carriers approached the area where the strike group was supposed to be, only to find only empty sea and civilian transports. And there were also times when our missile carriers even ran into the "welcoming committee"—enemy carrier-based fighters. The Americans had a tactic: they used not one, but two aircraft carriers, one operating completely covertly, while the other allowed itself to be "discovered." Then the "discovered" carrier would evade attack at full speed, while the second scrambled its Tomcats and F/A-18s and met our aircraft in the air...

In other words, it was a game of cat and mouse, with both sides losing. About half the time, we won, but the other half, the Americans did.

Now, remembering all this, let's ask ourselves a question. If an entire regiment of Tu-22M3s, capable of flying to the carrier strike group's location at transonic speeds and armed with highly powerful onboard radars capable of detecting an aircraft carrier at a range of 200-300 km, often failed to cope, then what chance would a swarm of Geranium 2s, with a cruising speed of less than 200 km/h, or even Geranium 5s with their 600 km/h and optics, have?

Of course, all of the above applies not only to flying drones, but also to unmanned boats, or BECs.

It's important to understand that surface ships in general, and aircraft carriers in particular, can afford to operate openly, relying solely on brute force, only against countries with patently weak and insufficient naval capabilities. In all other cases, they operate on a "hit-and-run" basis, meaning a quick and stealthy approach to the attack line, a strike, and an equally quick retreat.

Final World


Their long flight times and relatively modest homing systems allow UAVs to remain inexpensive, thus ensuring their proliferation. This is an inevitable evil, the eradication of which would transform UAVs into cruise missiles. But it is precisely these inherent qualities of UAVs that prevent them from becoming the ultimate weapon of naval warfare, which they will likely never become. And UAVs certainly don't have the power to "zero out" surface ships.
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  1. +4
    30 August 2026 04: 45
    The Russian Federation is a good example here. The benefits and necessity of "space" broadband internet have never been questioned.
    and that's why back in 2018 the President said
    We have our own program, a very good one. For example, the new "Sphere" program, which envisions the launch of over 600 satellites over the next few years that will handle positioning, Earth sensing, and communications. This will be a real breakthrough.

    This is another area where we can achieve a breakthrough, because the quality of communications will be such that it can essentially replace cable connections, no worse in quality and coverage, but should be cheaper and more accessible. Overall, this could lead to a complete revolution in communications.


    It's true that there wasn't any money in the budget for "Sfera," and what was found later (around several percent of the required amount) disappeared somewhere, and now all hope lies with private companies. request
  2. +8
    30 August 2026 05: 01
    Well, Ukraine's unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) still caused significant damage to the Russian fleet, even though Ukraine doesn't have a navy.
    1. 0
      30 August 2026 07: 11
      Quote: Pessimist22
      considering that Ukraine has no navy.


      And so it turns out. The US has broadband internet, and China will have it, but European countries couldn't handle it on their own and have banded together to achieve their goal. We're just getting there, and we'll get there someday. What can we say about all the other countries?
      So, if we don't have our own equivalent of Starlink, what's left to do? That's right, we'll go for it with an outstretched hand. And, of course, some country friendly to the US and NATO will be granted the right to use that same Starlink for military purposes. And they will use it, but only for as long as the US and NATO consider that country friendly and its military goals compliant with the needs of the "golden billion."

      Plus, everything happens in a relatively small space that can be seen through and through, even without satellites.
    2. + 11
      30 August 2026 07: 46
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Well, Ukraine's unmanned aerial vehicles and drones still caused significant damage to the Russian fleet.

      Yes. But here we have our sloppiness and lack of a clear direction, which I wrote about here: https://topwar.ru/242594-uzhas-letjaschij-na-kryljah-nochi-ili-pochemu-ukrainskie-bjek-dobivajutsja-uspeha.html
      1. +4
        30 August 2026 08: 12
        Andrey thanks for the article.
        The BEK is a new weapon that is rapidly developing. This weapon is in its infancy and has not yet reached its full potential. We'll see where it goes in the next ten to twenty years. Unfortunately, we're far from being ahead of the curve in this type of weaponry, and we desperately need it, given the closed waters of the Baltic and Black Seas.
        1. +6
          30 August 2026 09: 45
          You're welcome!
          Quote: Bearded
          This weapon is at the very beginning of its journey and has not yet reached the limits of its development.

          Certainly.
          Quote: Bearded
          Unfortunately, we are far from being ahead of the rest of the world in this type of weaponry, but we desperately need it given the closed waters of the Baltic and Black Seas.

          That's not entirely true. Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) perform well against ships in bases, but not at sea. This means they are essentially a special operations weapon, a sabotage weapon, and you don't need much of it.
          1. +3
            30 August 2026 14: 45
            BECs perform well against ships in bases, but not at sea.
            especially if these bases are heavily defended by several Zushkas or something like that
          2. +3
            31 August 2026 02: 14
            "That's not quite true. BECs perform well against ships in bases." That's not quite true. BECs perform well against ships in undefended bases.
            1. +1
              31 August 2026 06: 41
              Quote: Photon
              This is not entirely true; BECs perform well against ships in unprotected bases.

              Of course
    3. 0
      30 August 2026 23: 05
      Quote: Pessimist22
      considering that Ukraine has no navy.

      Are you saying that the BECs were directed at our ships by non-brothers?
      I don't think so. NATO intelligence both found them at the pier and provided guidance.
  3. 0
    30 August 2026 05: 03
    "In this situation, it would be useful to turn to the experience of the USSR Navy in "catching" enemy AUGs that were practicing training missions off our Far Eastern coast in the 80s." https://rutube.ru/video/a8601a30639752a8a1daa42057e35668/
  4. +7
    30 August 2026 05: 08
    If we recall the experience of the Pacific War, the saturation of ships with anti-aircraft artillery of 40 to 127 mm calibers and the use of radar fuses allowed the Americans to very effectively counter the massive attacks of Japanese aircraft. Aircraft of that era were certainly much easier to detect, but weren't radars stagnant? The problem is that there's simply nothing to hit the drones with. The missile complement is insufficient, and one or two rapid-fire missiles won't cope with a large number of drones. The range is short, the caliber is too small, and the number of barrels is too small. Add to that the complete lack of armor on the ship and the abundance of electronics, making it extremely vulnerable to damage even from small warheads.

    The same applies to BECs.
    1. +6
      30 August 2026 05: 19
      Quote: paul3390
      If we recall the experience of the war in the Pacific Ocean, then the saturation of ships with anti-aircraft artillery of calibers from 40 to 127 mm
      It was then that a new class of ships was created, called air defense cruisers, which protected their aircraft carriers and heavy artillery ships from attacks by enemy aircraft.
      1. + 13
        30 August 2026 05: 43
        Exactly. The issue isn't the effectiveness of UAVs, whether airborne or naval, but the mismatch between the main classes of ships in modern navies and the changing realities. This has happened before, and more than once. Recall the advent of the unforgettable Dreadnought, which wiped out all investment in all the world's navies. Or aircraft carriers, which effectively wiped out dreadnoughts. Missile weapons, which consigned heavy artillery ships to oblivion. Yet another revolution in military affairs is simply underway, only no one realizes it yet. Or rather, they're simply afraid and unable to admit that all the colossal naval expenditures of previous years have gone down the drain, and everything needs to be started over... Just like during the Dreadnought Revolution.
      2. +2
        30 August 2026 11: 29
        Quote: Schneeberg
        It was then that a new class of ships called air defense cruisers was created.

        From here on out, please elaborate. Which air defense cruisers are we talking about?
        1. +4
          30 August 2026 14: 48
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          What air defense cruisers are we talking about?:)))

          Escort cruisers. That's what they were called, air defense cruisers. They were in the American Navy. I think Gorshkov, who was an admiral, mentioned it in his book.
          1. +1
            30 August 2026 15: 00
            Quote: Schneeberg
            Escort cruisers. That's what they were called, air defense cruisers.

            That's what we called them. In fact, there were two main types: the British had the "Dido," and the Americans had the "Atlanta." They were armed with universal-caliber guns.
            But both types appeared before the start of WWII. And, most importantly, they weren't designed as air defense systems. In both cases, they were cruisers designed to operate alongside destroyers, capable of quickly destroying other destroyers and destroyer leaders. Air defense was a purely secondary mission for them. The Americans themselves didn't consider the Atlant-class cruisers particularly successful in their air defense role—they lacked fire control directors, and the platform wasn't exactly resilient.
            Based on the results of the WWII battles, they really wanted to build light air defense cruisers - these were the Worcester class, but they were laid down in the second half of 1945 and entered service as light cruisers.
            1. +1
              30 August 2026 15: 04
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              That's what we called them

              I'm not strong in naval terms. I read about it in Gorshkov's book "The Naval Power of the State." And logic dictates that with the development of the navy
              aviation has developed a need for exactly this kind of ships
              1. +3
                30 August 2026 15: 26
                Quote: Schneeberg
                And logic suggests that with the development of the sea
                aviation has developed a need for exactly this kind of ships

                The Americans have placed their bets not on specialized air defense ships, but on the development of their own carrier-based aviation and the qualitative strengthening of the air defense of their ships (primarily heavy ones)
            2. +2
              1 September 2026 11: 21
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              The Americans themselves did not consider the Atlantes particularly successful in their air defense role - there were few fire control system directors, and the platform was not particularly stable.

              The best air defense cruiser in WWII was the post-Washington battleship in the carrier force. Well, at least according to their commanders. laughing
              I remember the SoDak commander counting as many as 26 Japanese aircraft shot down in one battle – right before a meeting in Washington to adjust the shipbuilding program, at which it was planned to cut orders for battleships.
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Based on the results of WWII battles, they really wanted to build light air defense cruisers.

              Before. The USN requested an 8-gun cruiser with a 152mm universal main gun back in the late 30s. But back then, the industry said it was either/or. Either a 152mm main gun, but not universal, or a universal 127mm main gun. The USN chose both options and got the Clevelands and Atlantes. The universal 152mm gun wasn't finalized until the mid-40s, when it was already too late.
              1. +1
                1 September 2026 16: 32
                Quote: Alexey RA
                I remember the SoDak commander counting as many as 26 Japanese aircraft shot down in one battle.

                Well, why count them, the enemies? laughing
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Before. The USN requested an 8-gun cruiser with a 152mm universal main gun back in the late 30s.

                But it was not an air defense cruiser, it was a cruise missile with improved air defense capabilities.
            3. +1
              1 September 2026 11: 24
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              And, most importantly, they weren't designed as air defense systems at all. In both cases, they were cruisers designed to operate alongside destroyers, capable of quickly destroying other destroyers and destroyer leaders.

              If I remember correctly, the Atlantes were "scouts"—squadron reconnaissance and support for destroyer operations, the successors of the Omahas. For this, two command and control stations with eight turrets were quite sufficient.
    2. +3
      30 August 2026 10: 01
      There aren't enough missiles in the ammunition supply, and one or two rapid-fire missiles won't cope with a large number of drones.

      The Italian destroyers, with their three 76mm autocannons firing guided missiles, somehow disagree with your thesis.
      1. 0
        30 August 2026 10: 24
        Do you think that's enough? Against an attack from, say, 50 drones coming from different directions? What if there were hundreds? Although, it's already a step in the right direction, albeit a tiny one.
        1. +5
          30 August 2026 10: 34
          Sufficient because:

          1) A tactical situation where hundreds of drones simultaneously descend on a ship is a clear failure at a higher level (such an armada must be noticed and "thinned out" in advance), and the typical response is "no matter what you do, it's useless." Much like a lone infantryman being unable to fend off an attacking company; if it comes to this, it means a fatal failure occurred at a higher level;

          2) The ability to repel an attack depends more on the limitations of the ship's fire control system than on the specific number of autocannons;

          3) Even a WWII battleship would have been powerless against an attack by 50 aircraft from various directions for a simple reason: limited fire control channels. The ship had only 23 anti-aircraft fire directors: four Mark 37 for 127mm universal guns and nineteen Mark 51 for 40mm Bofors guns;
          1. +2
            30 August 2026 10: 39
            What is it thinned out with?

            No system will help you if your opponent simply has nothing to knock down.

            It's obvious. That's why we're talking about the air defense of a formation, not a single ship.
            1. +1
              30 August 2026 10: 55
              1) Over-the-horizon missiles, aircraft, helicopters;

              2) The standard OTO Melara fires at a rate of 120 rounds per minute. Drones are relatively slow targets, meaning they only take a couple of shots each. The main time between attacks is spent switching between targets by the fire control system. All other things being equal, a single modern destroyer with three 76mm guns can destroy up to 25-40 drones before being hit.

              3) That's what I'm saying too.
        2. +2
          30 August 2026 14: 49
          Against an attack by, say, 50 drones from different directions? What if there are hundreds?
          No one had ever seen such attacks. There were, like, a hundred drones overnight on one naval base. And the navy couldn't handle it; there was nothing to hit drones traveling at 200 km/h. Was anyone even on the ships? Or maybe the anti-aircraft gunners were asleep at home?
  5. +6
    30 August 2026 05: 15
    And UAVs are certainly not capable of “zeroing out” surface ships.
    There's no need to reset anything. It's enough to keep enemy ships far from your shores. That's what Iran does. Where are those awesome nuclear-powered and supposedly invulnerable aircraft carriers, the Abraham Lincoln and the George Ford, heading for the Iranian coast with such pomp and media coverage worthy of Hollywood? And why aren't they bombing Iran with all their "epic fury" (as the operation is called)? There's no need to answer the question; it's rhetorical. wink
    1. +5
      30 August 2026 05: 47
      Modern ships are too expensive and too vulnerable to be risked. In previous world wars, a destroyer was practically expendable, as were perhaps cruisers, especially light ones. Now, the sinking of a corvette is practically a national tragedy and an indelible shame.
      1. +2
        30 August 2026 11: 39
        Absolutely rightly noted. The naval complement is being supplemented with auxiliary vessels based on civilian vessels armed with air defense and anti-ship missile systems, as well as carrying UAVs.
    2. +3
      30 August 2026 07: 13
      Quote: Schneeberg
      Because that's what Iran does.

      Iran has not only UAVs, but also missiles in good order.
    3. +4
      30 August 2026 07: 46
      Quote: Schneeberg
      And why don't they bomb Iran with all their "epic fury" (that's what the operation is called)?

      So they bombed while the operation was ongoing:)))))
      1. +1
        30 August 2026 11: 10
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        So they bombed while the operation was going on
        Why then did they crawl 1000 km away from the Iranian coast and then leave completely?
        1. +2
          30 August 2026 11: 28
          Quote: Schneeberg
          Why then did they crawl 1000 km away from the Iranian coast?

          What I wrote about in the article
          It's important to understand that surface ships in general, and aircraft carriers in particular, can afford to operate openly, relying solely on brute force, only against countries with patently weak and insufficient naval capabilities. In all other cases, they operate on a "hit-and-run" basis, meaning a quick and stealthy approach to the attack line, a strike, and an equally quick retreat.
  6. + 11
    30 August 2026 05: 49
    Surface ships first "canceled" the "self-propelled Whitehead mines" (torpedoes), then aviation, then cruise missiles/A-bombs, now UAVs/UCAVs?
    "Yeah, right."
    For every tricky nut there's a reverse-threaded bolt
    (Folk wisdom)
    fool
  7. 0
    30 August 2026 08: 07
    the aircraft carrier will have time to launch several groups of aircraft that will strike regardless of whether we damage the aircraft carrier with the Shaheds or not
    And if the aircraft carrier is damaged, where will the planes flying back from the mission land?
    1. +4
      30 August 2026 09: 47
      Quote: Xenon
      And if the aircraft carrier is damaged, where will the planes flying back from the mission land?

      A Tsirkon attack destroys the aircraft carrier along with its aircraft, and the aircraft don't have time to engage our targets. A UAV attack might destroy the aircraft, but only after they've delivered their strike, while the aircraft carrier will survive in any case.
      1. +1
        30 August 2026 10: 28
        Well, could the attack be a combined one? First, the UAVs knock out, say, the phased array antennas, which are extremely vulnerable to hits, and waste the SAMs' cover, and a couple of minutes later, the classic anti-ship missiles arrive to pay a visit.
        1. +1
          30 August 2026 11: 30
          Quote: paul3390
          Well, the attack could be combined?

          Perhaps, however, this will require waiting many hours for the UAVs to reach the carrier strike group. Meanwhile, the carrier-based aircraft will be pounding coastal targets. Is that necessary?
          1. +1
            30 August 2026 11: 53
            In fact, Iran tried combined drone and ballistic attacks against Israel in 2024. The "combination" failed; the drones swarming over the desert were shot down by fighter jets during the "Great Turkey Hunt Over Jordan," and the ballistics were of no help whatsoever.
            1. 0
              30 August 2026 12: 50
              Quote: Destroyermen
              In fact, Iran tried combined drone and ballistic attacks against Israel in 2024. The "combination" failed; the drones swarming over the desert were shot down by fighter jets during the "Great Turkey Hunt Over Jordan," and the ballistics were of no help whatsoever.


              Well, it depends on the drone's performance characteristics. For example.

              A curious commentary was published by Bohdan Miroshnikov, a military observer for the Kyiv-based newspaper Ekonomichna Pravda and a staunch Russophobe. He writes that "the countdown of the nearly continuous attack by jet drones on the Kyiv region and Kyiv stopped at the 49th hour." He clarified that during this time, the Geran and Banderoli missiles inflicted far more damage on the Banderites than the ballistic salvo of 30 missiles combined with the Tsirkon missiles on the night of August 5th. "The problem is global," Miroshnikov writes. "We missed the moment when the Russians were transitioning from piston-engine UAVs to jet-powered drones. Jet interceptors, for example, aren't simply a matter of 'attaching a jet engine.' It's a rather complex technology that requires months of development. The most important issue is the lack of cheap jet engines for anti-aircraft drones."
              From his words, it's clear that the Banderites are trying to keep the $10 cost of intercepting the Geranium-4 and Parcels to a minimum, but that's impossible right now. All hope lies in Zelenskyy's professional begging, but he's already squeezed everything out of the Europeans.


              https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/529672/
            2. +2
              30 August 2026 14: 53
              Quote: Destroyermen
              In fact, Iran tried combined drone and ballistic missile attacks against Israel in 2024. The "combination" failed.

              Really? What about the burning oil refinery in Haifa and the destroyed nuclear center in Dimona? That's massive destruction.
              1. +1
                30 August 2026 18: 27
                These were BRSDSs; they operate the same way with or without drones. And the air defense systems used against drones and BRSDSs are fundamentally different.
  8. -3
    30 August 2026 08: 10
    In today's reality, an aircraft carrier is a large and juicy target for various types of drones and cruise missiles. And for hypersonic missiles, which are becoming increasingly popular, it's a piece of cake.
    1. 0
      30 August 2026 08: 47
      A plastic drone with a piston engine is a loose, slow target that can be easily destroyed on approach at a safe distance from the ship with a high-pressure water jet.
  9. +1
    30 August 2026 08: 58
    If a whole regiment of Tu-22M3s...
    The Tu-22M3 can reach speeds of up to Mach 2, making it an extremely dangerous adversary, capable of rapidly closing the distance to an aircraft carrier while simultaneously escaping the ship's air defense zone or escaping interceptors by maneuvering, changing flight altitude, and flying at extremely low altitudes.

    A more modern model of this aircraft can carry the Kh-32 long-range cruise missile, which already boasts hypersonic speed, increased resistance to modern electronic warfare, can climb to high altitudes and attack targets in a steep dive, and, in my opinion, is completely inaccessible to naval air defenses. I could be wrong, but the modernized Tu-22M3 can also carry Kinzhal missiles...

    P.S. What I have written does not at all mean that the aircraft will necessarily emerge victorious in a battle with naval air defense, since here everything depends on the quality of the weapons, the training of the crews and much more. But if someone were to take bets, I'd bet on the plane with its cruise missiles....
    And one more thing. We're now talking about a more advanced aircraft model and an equally advanced hypersonic missile, but if we look at the Cold War confrontation with an aircraft carrier, this fellow's predecessors were also quite capable aircraft, carrying Kh-22 missiles that theoretically had an 80-85% hit rate.
    Summary: Aircraft carriers are now as obsolete as battleships, cavalry, and perhaps towed artillery were in their time...
    1. +4
      30 August 2026 09: 40
      Quote: Luminman
      Summary: Aircraft carriers are now as obsolete as battleships and cavalry were in their time.

      This is precisely why, in the 50s-70s, all militarily advanced countries persistently created cavalry divisions and corps.wassat laughing Or they didn't create it...
      And aircraft carriers continue to be designed and built by everyone who can afford them financially and technologically. fellow And these damaged creatures have no idea that they are engaged in the "cavalry of the 21st century"... winked
      1. +2
        30 August 2026 12: 41
        Quote: Doccor18
        And aircraft carriers continue to be designed and built by everyone who can afford them financially and technologically.
        When I was still in elementary school, our teacher liked to say - If someone bangs their head against the wall, will you do the same? ))
        1. +1
          30 August 2026 15: 35
          Quote: Luminman
          If someone bangs their head against the wall, will you do the same? ))

          The two most powerful economies, possessing the greatest military, technological, and intellectual potential in the world, are wasting tens of billions? Do you seriously think so? Either the best minds in the US, China, Great Britain, France, and Turkey are wrong, or you and the carrier-denying crowd are wrong.
          As long as aviation (manned and unmanned) remains relevant, aircraft carriers will also remain relevant.
          1. -1
            1 September 2026 05: 26
            Let me remind you that before WWII, money was wasted on building battleships that became obsolete within just a couple of years. That's just mental inertia.
            1. 0
              1 September 2026 07: 09
              Quote: Aggle
              that before WWII, money was wasted on building battleships,

              Why in vain? The battleship remained one of the fleet's most powerful ships during the war.
              Quote: Aggle
              which have lost their relevance in just a couple of years.

              They have not lost their relevance, since England and France completed their last battleships after WWII, and decommissioned them only 10-20 years later... Even the USA, which had a colossal aircraft carrier fleet, was in no hurry to part with the armored carriers of huge artillery systems.
              Quote: Aggle
              Inertia of thinking, however.

              Rather, it's a comprehensive approach. Some have been periodically "burying" tanks and artillery, aircraft carriers and destroyers for several years now, while everyone (who has the means) continues to design and build them, along with satellite constellations and UAVs. That's what a comprehensive approach is. "An aircraft carrier is good, but paired with a battleship, it's practically invulnerable"—the Americans understood this perfectly well back then, and they still understand it today: only large squadrons of capital ships can ensure naval dominance, and therefore commercial and financial dominance...
        2. 0
          30 August 2026 18: 31
          What are we doing instead of aircraft carriers? Well, besides the grand theft of the Russian Navy, we've been making peace doves without proper air defense and with even more backward anti-submarine defense. And it seems the surface fleet hasn't acquired anything larger than a small missile ship in the last three years.
    2. +3
      30 August 2026 09: 48
      Quote: Luminman
      The Tu-22M3 can reach speeds of up to Mach 2, making it an extremely dangerous adversary, capable of closing the distance to an aircraft carrier in the shortest possible time.

      It's not a fact - according to some sources, they never reached supersonic speeds with cruise missiles on board.
      Quote: Luminman
      And one more thing. We're now talking about a more advanced aircraft model and an equally advanced hypersonic missile, but if we look at the Cold War confrontation with an aircraft carrier, this fellow's predecessors were also quite capable aircraft, carrying Kh-22 missiles that theoretically had an 80-85% hit rate.

      And they didn't always win against AB
      1. +2
        30 August 2026 12: 56
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        It's not a fact - according to some sources, they never reached supersonic speeds with cruise missiles on board.
        I forgot to mention that this is a modernized aircraft called the Tu-22M3.М, that's what's available to her. At least, theoretically, it's built into her...
        1. +2
          30 August 2026 13: 06
          In any case, theoretically such a possibility is built into it...


          Yes, in the form of a short burst. That is, the rocket's mounts will hold, but the aerodynamic drag remains, as does the rocket's weight. It's enough for the final burst to reach the firing line. But you'll still have to cruise at subsonic speed. You can't cheat physics.
    3. +3
      30 August 2026 10: 00
      The Tu-22M3 can reach speeds of up to Mach 2, making it an extremely dangerous adversary, capable of rapidly closing the distance to an aircraft carrier while simultaneously escaping the ship's air defense zone or escaping interceptors by maneuvering, changing flight altitude, and flying at extremely low altitudes.


      The F/A-18E, with its Gunslingers with a range of over 500 km and active homing, politely laughed at this statement.

      and from there, attacking a target in a steep dive, as it seems to me, is completely inaccessible to ship-based air defense.


      Naval air defense is quite capable of dealing with ballistic missiles (as demonstrated in the Red Sea and in Israel's missile defense system). Why do you think that a missile diving from the stratosphere is an unsolvable problem?

      The predecessors of this fellow were also quite good machines, carrying Kh-22 missiles on board, which theoretically could hit a target with a probability of 80-85%...


      In the absence of countermeasures, yes. In the presence of active countermeasures, however, a host of unpleasant "buts" immediately arose, starting with the need for bombers to reach the launch range, taking into account missile traps (missile-carrying ships on alert along the threat vector, their radars turned off, relying on external warnings to catch attacking aircraft off guard), patrolling interceptors, and the aircraft carrier's uncertain position.
      1. +3
        30 August 2026 11: 39
        Quote: Destroyermen
        F/A-18E with Gunslingers with a range of over 500 km and active homing

        We were standing on the AV deck during the transition. And in the air there was only one Growler, or even no one at all. Very often, during the transition, the Americans sacrificed the ability to repel an attack for the sake of stealth.
        Quote: Destroyermen
        Naval air defense copes quite well with ballistic missiles (as demonstrated by practice in the Red Sea and in the Israeli missile defense system),

        Not quite so. The Iranians don't have ballistas capable of targeting ships; firing ballistas at ships is like firing in the wrong direction. Second, ships have shot down classic ballistic missiles attacking Israel, but those were using weapons that are not suitable for atmospheric interception.
        But in general, you are, of course, right - the aircraft has a lot of opportunities to defend/evade an air attack, there is no need to absolutize either one
        1. +3
          30 August 2026 11: 50

          We were standing on the AV deck during the transition. And in the air there was only one Growler, or even no one at all. Very often, during the transition, the Americans sacrificed the ability to repel an attack for the sake of stealth.


          That's also possible. But you can't rely on it, wouldn't you agree, colleague?

          (P.S. I am Fonzeppelin, just in case)

          Not quite so. The Iranians don't have ballistas capable of targeting ships; firing ballistas at ships is like firing in the wrong direction.


          Hmm. During the Red Sea crisis, the Yemenis used Iranian-made anti-ship ballistic missiles—if I remember correctly, they had optical-electronic photocontrast homing (i.e., the missile homed in on the contrasting shape of a ship against the monotonous sea surface).

          there is no point in absolutizing either one


          PPKS. Actually, I'll quote my old translation by Andy Pico:

          Soviet naval missile-carrying aviation was (and remains) extremely well organized and well-armed. Tu-16 or Tu-22 strike regiments, supported by Tu-95s and maritime patrol aircraft for reconnaissance, were a dangerous adversary. The USSR had approximately one MRA regiment for every American aircraft carrier. If an MRA regiment caught an aircraft carrier by surprise, all that remained was to draw the curtain. A carrier warned in time had a good chance of survival, but at the risk of significant losses and damage. But an MRA regiment, fighting its way back and forth through a curtain of fighters, inevitably suffered heavy losses. It would not have had enough combat-ready aircraft left for a second strike—if it had any at all. If, however, a missile trap had been set in such a way that the air regiment began its climb to launch altitude within range of the missile-carrying ship—a fact the pilots would have been unaware of until the moment the guidance radars activated and the missiles began to detonate—the battle would have ended before it had even begun. Therefore, the key to carrying out a strike was the requirement to identify the target and determine its precise location before the air regiment lifted off for the attack.

          ( https://fonzeppelin.livejournal.com/2267.html )

          1. +2
            30 August 2026 12: 28
            Quote: Destroyermen
            I'm Fonzeppelin, by the way.

            How many years, how many winters!:))))) hi
            Nice to see you:))))
            Quote: Destroyermen
            During the Red Sea crisis, the Yemenis used Iranian-made anti-ship ballistic missiles—if I remember correctly, they had optical-electronic photocontrast homing (i.e., the missile was guided to the contrasting spot of a ship against the monotonous surface of the sea).

            Perhaps a little better than the passive radar found on the domestic R-27K. And if the Iranians had also integrated the Legenda MKRTS into their system, something might have worked.
            Quote: Destroyermen
            PPKS. Actually, I'll quote my old translation by Andy Pico:

            I totally agree
            1. +4
              30 August 2026 12: 28
              How many years, how many winters! :)))))) hi
              Nice to see you:))))


              Absolutely the same, dear colleague!
              1. +4
                30 August 2026 12: 42
                Please convey my greetings to the "old guard" of alt-historians if you meet any of them, dear Alexey:)))))
                1. +2
                  30 August 2026 12: 58
                  Certainly, dear Andrey!
          2. +1
            31 August 2026 09: 43
            Quote: Destroyermen
            I'm Fonzeppelin, by the way.

            My respects, colleague. hi
            1. +1
              31 August 2026 10: 08
              Likewise, dear colleague!
          3. +2
            31 August 2026 17: 01
            hi Welcome and welcome!
        2. +1
          30 August 2026 15: 09
          Listen, guys, we never planned to attack a carrier strike group or an air strike group with a single regiment; that would inevitably lead to failure. This requires a very large force: aircraft, surface ships, and submarines, and only then can we talk about destroying or thwarting the enemy's mission.
          1. +1
            30 August 2026 15: 28
            Quote from Barracuda 148
            Listen, guys, it was never planned to attack an AUG or AUS with one regiment, it would be an inevitable failure.

            That's theoretically for military action. In practice, it was sometimes possible to catch a carrier strike group off guard with just one regiment. In actual military action, they would, of course, try to employ a concentrated strike against submarines and aircraft, but that would depend on how it pans out.
            1. +2
              30 August 2026 15: 34
              That's what I was taught in the event of military action, and catching a regiment is the greatest luck, and MRA regiments are no longer visible in the Navy. And we still need Tu-142 and Tu-95RC with target designation from space, and then the moment will come when we can find an AUG or AUS.
              1. +2
                30 August 2026 15: 45
                Quote from Barracuda 148
                and there are no longer any MRA regiments in the Navy

                As is the case with the MRA itself. The Aerospace Forces have only one Tu-22M3 regiment left, and it's clearly not suited for naval missions right now.
                Quote from Barracuda 148
                And we also need the Tu-142 and Tu-95RC with target designation from space.

                It's already very outdated, something more modern is needed. But - no, and there won't be.
      2. -1
        30 August 2026 12: 49
        Quote: Destroyermen
        The F/A-18E, with its Gunslingers with a range of over 500 km and active homing, politely laughed at this statement.
        The Tu-22M3, capable of Mach 2 and accompanied by an electronic warfare aircraft, would also laugh at the enemy's carrier-based aircraft. And what a laugh the Kh-32 hypersonic missile, with its jam-resistant active-passive radar and Mach 5 speed, would have!
        Quote: Destroyermen
        Why did you decide that a rocket diving from the stratosphere is an unsolvable problem?
        Because in the final phase of its flight, it reaches colossal speeds—those same Mach 5—and it's difficult to catch. Almost impossible...
        1. +3
          30 August 2026 13: 03
          The Tu-22M3, with a speed of Mach 2 and accompanied by an electronic warfare aircraft, will also laugh at the enemy's carrier-based aircraft.


          How exactly will his speed help him?)

          Because in the final phase of its flight, it reaches colossal speeds—those same Mach 5—and it's difficult to catch. Almost impossible...


          You'll be surprised, but the US Navy has been able to shoot down these kinds of targets since the 1980s. Google the AQM-37C "Jayhawk"—an unmanned target aircraft of the US Navy, designed specifically for practicing high-speed supersonic interceptions. The C-model accelerated to the notorious Mach 5 in a dive from the stratosphere...
          1. +1
            30 August 2026 16: 30
            Quote: Destroyermen
            How exactly will his speed help him?)
            At high object speeds, the overall radar clutter also increases. That's it in a nutshell...
            Google AQM-37C "Jayhawk" - US Navy target drone
            I googled it, but there's very little information on this target, practically nonexistent. But I'm sure something like this would have been lost under ideal conditions, with the radar on full power for the entire duration of the target's flight. This means that during all this time, there is a very, very high probability of getting hit in the forehead by an anti-radar missile...
            1. +2
              30 August 2026 20: 40
              I googled it, but there's very little information on this target, practically nonexistent. But I'm sure something like this would have been lost under ideal conditions, with the radar on full power for the entire duration of the target's flight. This means that during this entire flight, there's a very, very high chance of getting hit in the forehead by a radar-deflecting missile...


              In fact, when a ship repels a missile attack, its radars are already at full power. Repelling an attack in EMCON mode is a sophisticated suicide method. And yes, a radar-defeating missile in this situation is actually very little different from a regular anti-ship missile. It also needs to somehow penetrate the target's missile defense system.
  10. +2
    30 August 2026 09: 49
    Great analysis!

    I will add that a large warship with a multi-channel combat information and control system, advanced electronic warfare, over-the-horizon air defense systems, autocannons and specialized anti-drone systems (like the American "Coyote", which are already being installed on a number of destroyers) is quite capable of repelling sufficiently massive drone attacks to make the organization effective Attacks against it have become an extremely complex undertaking. Ensuring the simultaneous approach of relatively slow drones launched from different sites at different times against a moving and actively maneuvering target is a terrible headache. And a warship can easily "digest" a localized number of drones deployed to directly cover a specific section of the coast.
  11. -1
    30 August 2026 10: 14
    Jet Geranium 3, especially 4, can definitely disrupt shipping and warships. If you launch 10-15 Geraniums at a warship, it will miss two or three and cause significant damage. If the drones are remote-controlled, the operator can choose an angle that is at an altitude of 2-3 meters on the bow, there is no possibility of hitting a low-flying object. drinks
  12. 0
    30 August 2026 10: 34
    The article is reminiscent of Budyonny’s opinion on the need for cavalry armies in World War II! laughing
  13. +3
    30 August 2026 12: 32
    Everyone's used to thinking that it takes so many drones to destroy a tank. But a tank doesn't fight alone. Several years ago, before the start of the Central Military District, the topic of tank duels during WWII was popular: the T-34 versus the Tiger and Panther. But no one really considered tank losses to anti-tank artillery, specifically designed for this purpose, and they were the main ones. Therefore, with the development of army air defense systems, electronic warfare systems, NBC protection engineering troops, and so on, everything will return to normal. The same was said about the machine gun, saying that war would be impossible and that the only result would be new tactics and the emergence of new weapons. That's how it will be now.
    1. +2
      30 August 2026 12: 43
      Quote: tank64rus
      They also said about the machine gun, that war would be impossible and that the only result would be new tactics and the emergence of new types of weapons. That's how it will be now.

      I think so too
    2. +1
      30 August 2026 18: 42
      It's some kind of general's doctrine that you need a dueling weapon, give a soldier a beautiful tank, a plane, or a warrior with an exoskeleton, and he'll defeat everyone. And the fact that historically, order beats class, and skillfully controlled German medium tanks drive to the English Channel, while more powerful French tanks drive aimlessly to who knows where—the military leadership doesn't really like to remember that. After all, we don't have Zhukovs and Mansteins turning scrap metal into armies; we have degenerates like Lapin and Akhmedov.
  14. +3
    30 August 2026 13: 39
    Andrei, good afternoon!
    Thank you for the interesting article. I agree with your conclusions.
    I have a question: why don't Project 11356R frigates have short-range air defense systems?
    Were you hoping for MANPADS and barrel artillery?
    Did you think that Shtil-1 would work?
    After all, on land, the rules have long been established: the construction of an air defense system begins with short-range systems.
    1. +3
      30 August 2026 14: 52
      Good day, Alexey!
      Quote: rytik32
      I have a question: why don't Project 11356R frigates have short-range air defense systems?

      Quote: rytik32
      Did you think that Shtil-1 would work?

      As far as I know, yes. So, it was like this: they wanted to get the 11355 with modern armament. That one had the Rastrub anti-aircraft missile system, while the 11356 got the Kalibr, with its more modern anti-aircraft missiles, and instead of the Osa anti-aircraft missile system, they slapped on a medium-range anti-aircraft missile system. I've heard good things about the Shtil, that it's a very decent anti-aircraft missile system capable of operating even at low altitudes. And putting two different types of anti-aircraft missiles on a patrol ship... Come to think of it, at that point, we didn't really have anything else to install, except the Kinzhal—but then we would have had to increase the displacement, since the Kinzhal is not light at all.
  15. 0
    30 August 2026 15: 46
    Besides aircraft carriers and their groups, there are plenty of other classes of ships, from small missile ships and small anti-submarine ships to quite large corvettes and above. While a corvette-sized ship might have a chance of defending itself, smaller ships would be torn apart by a UAV strike, leaving them unable to move or defend.
    Unless, of course, these small ships have a speed of 250 knots.
  16. 0
    30 August 2026 16: 18
    The advantage of a surface ship is its powerful propulsion system. It so happens that radio-controlled toys from the world of children have become formidable weapons. However, they have an Achilles' heel—the radio control channel. I'm sure that it won't be long before science finds ways to jam the most interference-resistant channels, cutting them off like fiber optic cables. The development of laser systems, backed by the power of ships, will bury these toy drones as a military misunderstanding.
    1. +2
      30 August 2026 21: 51
      Alas...
      While the fat dries, the thin dies ...
      Long before the defending side deploys truly effective electronic warfare jammers, the attacking side will master autonomous AI in its drones...
      It will only get worse, have you noticed this sad pattern yet?
      1. 0
        31 August 2026 06: 57
        It depends on how you look at the ship's armament concept. You can look to the past, keeping obsolete ships afloat, or you can look to the future, where ships will be armed with laser, microwave, and magnetotronic weapons, controlled by AI. The human factor—a sailor who can't hit the submarine's containment unit from 50 meters away—must be completely eliminated.
        1. 0
          31 August 2026 10: 25
          Exactly...
          That's exactly how it will end, and they've even come up with a name for it - "Judgment Day" with a musical intro of a knife on a cast-iron frying pan...
          Jules Verne and Wells predicted everything, and now we're waiting for the Terminator scriptwriters' prediction to come true: an effective drone is simply destined to be equipped with AI (and the process is already in full swing), and all subsequent steps, such as providing the ability to self-learn and full decision-making rights, are also inevitable and mandatory as the competition progresses.
          In the near future, people will lose control over AI, just like elderly parents lose control over their child....
          And as it is sung by De Treville in the famous film
          "If he gave you the swords,
          How can I stop it?
          Metal flying into the chest
          Bloodshed... Bloodshed!"
  17. 0
    30 August 2026 17: 42
    Obviously, drones don't necessarily need to be launched from land. They could be launched, for example, from a submarine.
    1. +1
      30 August 2026 18: 19
      Obviously, the missiles are too
  18. 0
    30 August 2026 18: 47
    UAVs won't be a problem for surface ships. They might complicate things, but that's all. It's enough to recall the experience of World War II and return to deploying large quantities of small-caliber artillery on ships, and MANDATORY adding projectiles with programmable detonators. Then, this artillery can be used against surface and aerial drones. But most importantly, DO NOT TRUST this matter to the admirals; they've been debating for four years and haven't been able to come to any meaningful conclusions in the Black Sea Fleet.
  19. -1
    30 August 2026 19: 38
    I think the situation with UAVs versus surface fleets in general, and strike groups in particular, is far more dire and frightening. Maneuverability is the ONLY parameter of a modern navy capable of providing any protection to ships.
    That is, to achieve a result where the fleet is constantly maneuvering and on alert (alternating between radio silence and active radar monitoring to study the situation); otherwise, any mass attack would disable the fleet. After all, the modern fleet (compared to the fleets of previous centuries) is characterized by small numbers (as a result, the incapacitation of even one ship significantly impacts the fleet's combat capability in a given region), high cost (as a result, construction, repair, and replacement cannot keep up with the potential loss of fleet ships), and extreme fragility (the development of naval missiles over the past 60 years has led to the priority of detection and guidance systems, and active rather than passive defense systems have become paramount in terms of defense. This has resulted in ships possessing a multitude of expensive and fragile electronics on their hulls, damage to which disables the ship). So, if we attack a ship with 400 drones (assuming 20-30% will reach the ship itself, meaning 80-120 drones), we're guaranteed to damage some of its external equipment. And if we use a mixed guidance system and a mixed warhead on the roads, it will further expand the range of damage inflicted. Of course, even 1000 drones won't sink the ship, but they will certainly disable it and prevent it from participating in combat for some time (the crew can patch holes in the hull at sea, but air defense turrets or damaged radar arrays can only be repaired in port, and only if the array is available).
    1. +1
      31 August 2026 02: 57
      "If we calculate that 20-30% will reach the ship itself, then 80-120% will reach it." What calculations! With a sparse "civilian" air defense, only 3% to a fraction of a percent will reach the oil refinery. This is with attacks by 1000-1500 drones. And the density of ship-based air defense will be greater than not only "civilian" air defense, but also frontline air defense.
      1. 0
        31 August 2026 03: 12
        Quote: Photon
        With a sparse civilian air defense system, only 3% to a fraction of a percent of the drones reach the oil refinery. This is with attacks from 1000-1500 drones. And the density of naval air defense will be higher than not only civilian air defense, but also frontline air defense.

        Sparse air defense is sparse, but it's spread out along the UAV's entire route to the target. And it's effective throughout the entire flight. A ship's air defense, however, is, at best, only at close range. That is, already on approach. While a destroyer might be able to fend off 80-120 of them, a small corvette is unlikely to be able to...
      2. 0
        31 August 2026 14: 18
        Only 3% of drones reach cities—another dubious statistic. Cities are area targets, and by the time they reach them, they'll be met by air defense units. As a result, a gigantic flow of 1500-2000 drones is spread out over a vast area. Consequently, only a small fraction of UAVs reach certain areas. But 3% is a rather manipulative figure. For example, "out of 1500 launched drones, only 15-20 managed to penetrate all defenses" seems impressive. But what they don't mention (to avoid panic) is that of the 1500 drones, 200-300 were simple drones designed only to draw air defense missiles toward themselves, while another 400-500 were actually sent to targets not within the city, but rather to suburbs or other cities in neighboring areas. But if you count in terms of "who flew in and fell into the city" - then yes... only 15-20 flew in
  20. +1
    30 August 2026 19: 49
    The article's title itself is very strange. No, no UAVs will lead to the extinction of surface and submarine fleets. A large ocean-going navy is the only way to project power anywhere in the world. The US, for example, without the ability to deploy 100 troops to a desired location within 45 days, will remain locked in its mainland, and then they will certainly have nothing left but the Monroe Doctrine. And the very concept of large ocean-going drones seems strange; UAVs are not suitable for navigation in the Pacific Ocean, for example. There's no need to extend the isolated case of the Black Sea under the conditions of the North Atlantic War to the entire oceans of the planet. The future will most likely look like a combination of unmanned and manned vehicles, both on water, in the air, and on land. I can easily imagine a manned attack aircraft with a second-in-command controlling a dozen UAVs. A ground-based combat vehicle could also control a leading mine-clearing drone, an interceptor drone with an active defense system, a flying UAV linked to the vehicle via a wired link for reconnaissance and battlefield surveillance from above, and a ship carrying a couple dozen underwater and surface vehicles. Until humanity can fully transfer combat operations to robotic platforms, and for that we need a complete equivalent of the robot infantryman, the human pilot, sailor, and infantryman will remain.
    1. 0
      4 September 2026 12: 29
      shift... it could happen much faster than we think. Outrageously faster.
  21. 0
    31 August 2026 00: 15
    The author hasn't yet mentioned that 90 kg of warheads is too little for a warship: they can cause damage, but they're unlikely to destroy it. 300 kg is needed, or better yet, 500 kg. But that would require completely different engines, and the drone would no longer be so cheap.
    1. 0
      31 August 2026 10: 36
      Well, the whole problem with these drones is that they can only do damage in a targeted manner - like destroying radar antennas or dumping poison into ventilation without requiring much mass.
    2. 0
      4 September 2026 12: 27
      I see, recently, NATO is massively adopting the NSM—a small, plastic, and almost invisible Norwegian-made anti-ship missile with a fairly small HE warhead—somewhere around 120-200 kg. There could be many of these missiles (swarm philosophy), and the goal of sinking a large surface ship might not even be an issue—a 70-80% loss of combat stability would be enough. Either it will sink itself, or another torpedo will arrive from a distance. A guaranteed kill.
  22. +1
    31 August 2026 02: 45
    I don't quite understand the problem being discussed. With the advent of cheap single-board computers, especially those with AI modules, creating homing munitions for targets traveling at speeds of hundreds of kilometers per hour and maneuvering at overloads of less than tens of g's shouldn't be a problem. Covering a frontline of thousands of kilometers is one thing. But protecting a ship or a convoy—what problems could there be? In fact, there is certainly a problem. It's integrating such weapons into the ship and unit's combat information and control system. I wonder what's happening now with the introduction of AI into combat information and control systems? Although, I don't think anyone will tell us.
  23. -1
    31 August 2026 14: 16
    Everyone's been talking about UAVs, but what about the plastic-hulled BEK semi-submersibles? If they're attacked by a dozen of them from different angles at night, how likely are they to fight them off? I'm talking about situations at anchor or while moored; it's clear that such a scenario is difficult to implement while underway.
    1. +1
      31 August 2026 15: 21
      What's so appealing about semi-submersible boats? From a hydrodynamics standpoint, they're the worst option. Huge costs for wave generation. Engine power requirements, fuel consumption, low speed. Attacking the vessel while underway at sea is completely unthinkable. And while anchored, protected by booms and nets, and attacked from multiple directions simultaneously... It's just unbelievable.
      1. 0
        4 September 2026 12: 22
        Let's take the American ORCA project: I'm not saying exactly what it is in its current form. It's a distributed means of delivering NC/anti-ship cruise missiles to the launch line, at the mouth of the Kola Bay, or even to the Severomorsk roadstead (if you're lucky). There's no need to assume that the current state of affairs is forever.
  24. 0
    31 August 2026 20: 55
    For surface ships to effectively counter BEKs and UAVs, we need to rapidly implement high-tech, science-intensive technologies, weapons based on 21st-century principles, not those of the second half of the 20th, modern computer systems with AI, the latest radar, thermal imaging, and optical systems, automated control systems, and so on. With a bare butt and a sailor with a machine gun, it will be like the Black Sea Fleet, whose remnants, once hunters, have become hunted, sitting at base and keeping a low profile. I don't believe those pompous admirals will be able to change anything. They should hold out until retirement, and then let others sort things out. P.S. During the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet exercises, our sailors tore apart the simulated enemy like a dog tore apart a hot water bottle. Shadowboxing is a good boxing exercise, but come here to the Black Sea Fleet and show how long you can hold your own against a real enemy.
    1. 0
      4 September 2026 12: 17
      Did our sailors on 1155 and 1224 tear someone apart? Was it a SEAWOLF by any chance? I was once visiting 22380 (I went with a classmate, a former F3 DKBF, captain of the 1st group): its combat lifespan was 1 hour at most (with PACKETS / POLIMENTS & REDUTS). Given the topic of this article, maybe less.
  25. 0
    1 September 2026 21: 00
    Quote from alexoff
    and now all hope is on private owners

    Which work on budget money.
    1. 0
      4 September 2026 12: 13
      They're all being mobilized, and what hope do TikTokers have for them? Hope for something else. And then, why all this? How will it make life happier and brighter?
  26. -1
    4 September 2026 12: 07
    All this is based on the current state. Nothing prevents drones from becoming part of an anti-ship missile (ASM) cluster warhead—a swarm delivered quickly and fired on approach will overwhelm the air defenses, and the second missile in the salvo (AI) will decide to go for the option of detonating under the keel. AUGs can also attack a swarm of underwater drones—destroying them is almost impossible. Patrol UAV gliders will provide targeting guidance to anti-ship missile carriers loitering in the ocean—a kind of distributed ASH in the area. Or from a positional position—like a "maneuverable" minefield. Try to repel a group attack by a swarm from nowhere. Long-range GA patrol drones (DGAO AWACS-type AWACS) generally call into question the stealthiness of SSBNs, and this will immediately sober many up from experiments at the operational tactical level. And in general, the swarm philosophy, when scaled up, will change, if not everything, then a great deal. The main thing here is not to "modernize" yet another cruiser, as heavy and long as the president's penis, and hyper-strikeable in its legendary status. It will be sunk along with its illusions.
  27. 0
    4 September 2026 21: 43
    What's there to comment on? Our grandfathers would shake their heads when they saw our ships. Destroyers in WWII had up to ten 37mm automatic guns, four heavy machine guns, and up to twenty men maintaining constant all-round surveillance. And now? A 76-100mm cannon without canister or shrapnel rounds, and two 14,5mm KPVs? And now the fleet is like three monkeys when it comes to detection – "I don't see, I don't hear, and I don't care!"