How Indians assessed the ergonomics of the T-90S gunner's station

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How Indians assessed the ergonomics of the T-90S gunner's station

In 2021, Indian researchers published an interesting paper dedicated to a detailed study of the ergonomics of the gunner-operator's workstation. tanks T-90S. The findings were not very encouraging—the Indians merely confirmed the fact that Soviet-style tanks were developed with insufficient attention to anthropometry and ergonomics.

What and who was studied


The study involved 90 healthy male gunners. Their average age was 35,2 years, average height was 172,6 centimeters, and average body weight was 72,4 kilograms. This sample size allowed the authors to compare the workstation dimensions not with an abstract "average person," but with the anthropometric characteristics of military personnel actually operating the vehicle.



The specialists measured shoulder and pelvic width, arm and leg length, eye height while seated, popliteal height, and other parameters. They then compared these data with the seat dimensions and the clearances between the seat and the equipment.

The study was conducted directly inside the tank with the hatches closed. Neck and torso angles, as well as the position of the elbow, hip, knee, and ankle joints, were measured. Dynamometers were used to determine the force required to operate the mechanisms and controls. Additionally, the gunners used the 1G46 sight handles for 45 minutes, and their hand grip strength was tested every two minutes.

Finally, participants were asked to subjectively rate discomfort in various parts of their bodies on a ten-point scale. Zero meant no discomfort, ten meant severe discomfort. In this way, the authors combined objective measurements with the service members' self-assessments.

Sitting


The gunner's seat proved to be one of the main sources of problems. Its base measures only 34 by 30 centimeters. Meanwhile, the average maximum hip width of the study participants was 36,6 centimeters, and the average biceps width was 38,5 centimeters.

In other words, the seat was narrower than most gunners' bodies. Some of their hips protruded beyond its edges, reducing the contact surface and increasing pressure on the pelvic bones and soft tissues. The smaller the contact surface, the greater the specific load and the faster the person begins to feel pain and numbness.

The seat depth was no less revealing. With a base length of 30 centimeters, the average gluteal-popliteal length of the gunners was 45,4 centimeters. Therefore, a significant portion of the thigh was left unsupported. The authors attribute this to numbness in the thigh and calf muscles, as well as a disruption in the normal distribution of load.
The design of the pillow also does not contribute to comfort.


The gunner's position using the T-90A as an example.

The base is made of a metal sheet, topped with jute fiber in a canvas cover. This solution is durable and relatively low-maintenance, which is important for military equipment, but the surface is hard and flat. It distributes body weight poorly and increases pressure on the ischial tuberosities.

The backrest measures 34 by 15 centimeters and is positioned 15 centimeters higher than the base. According to researchers' calculations, it supports only 23,6 percent of the average torso height to the cervical point. There is no full lumbar or upper back support, and there are no headrests or armrests.

The latter is especially important for the gunner. He must spend a significant portion of the time holding his hands on the control handles without a stable support for his forearms. The static load places stress on the shoulder girdle, elbow joints, and back muscles, which accelerates fatigue.

The seat is rigidly mounted to a metal frame. The authors note that shocks and vibrations from the vehicle's body are transmitted directly to the gunner's body. There is no proper suspension or floating base to mitigate the impact of dynamic loads.

Seat adjustment


The seat can be adjusted vertically and longitudinally, but the adjustment is not instantaneous. To change the position, you must align the holes in the bracket and secure the structure with nuts. A limited number of fixed positions are provided.

This means that the gunner cannot quickly adjust the workstation to his own parameters, as is done in a modern automobile or aviation chair. Moreover, it's impossible to change the position of the seat while working—for example, raising it to observe through one device and lowering it to work with another.

The height of the base above the rotating conveyor platform—just 15 centimeters—is particularly questionable. The average knee height of the study participants was 44,8 centimeters. Of course, a tank seat can't be directly compared to a regular seat: the gunner's legs are positioned relative to the fighting compartment and the automatic loader, rather than resting freely on the floor. However, the measured joint angles confirm that the body position is far from optimal.

During work, the hip angle ranged from 75 to 86 degrees, compared to the recommended 90–120 degrees. The knee angle dropped to 59–70 degrees. At rest, by contrast, it reached 121–132 degrees. Thus, posture varied significantly depending on the procedure being performed, but rarely remained neutral.

A small knee angle creates additional pressure on the tissues, leading to numbness in the legs and muscle stiffness. At the same time, inadequate back support increases the strain on the spine. As a result, discomfort in one part of the workstation amplifies the effects of deficiencies in another.

Working with sights and observation devices


The gunner's primary daytime sight is the 1G46. In addition, the Essa thermal imaging sight is used, and TNP-165A periscopes are installed for observation. These devices alone allow for target acquisition and weapon engagement at various times of day. However, their relative positions force the gunner to constantly shift his head position.

The average eye height of the soldiers examined while seated was 70,8 centimeters. The sight's eyepiece and thermal imager screen were positioned at a height of approximately 58 centimeters. Furthermore, they were separated horizontally by approximately 25 centimeters.

To shift his gaze to the display, the gunner had to turn his neck to the right by approximately 35 degrees. Meanwhile, the preferred range of motion during continuous operation is approximately 20–30 degrees. A single turn poses no significant problem, but repeated repetitions of this movement over an extended period increases strain on the neck and shoulder girdle.


Using periscopes is even more difficult. To observe through one, the gunner must tilt his neck back at an angle of up to 50 degrees, then look up. Using a side-mounted device requires turning his head approximately 90 degrees.

In a real battle, a gunner isn't limited to a single movement. He shifts his gaze between the daylight channel, the thermal imager, the periscopes, and the controls, all while interacting with the commander and tracking the target. Therefore, even moderate discomfort quickly accumulates and turns into physical fatigue.

The authors proposed displaying images from various devices on a single, improved display. This solution would reduce head movements and allow the primary data to be concentrated in a single field of view. Essentially, this represents a transition from a set of dispersed optical devices to a more integrated digital workstation.

However, this presents a common compromise for armored vehicles. A direct optical link is highly reliable and can remain operational even if some electronics fail. A complete switch to displays increases dependence on cameras, wiring, and computing resources. Therefore, it's more rational to complement the optical link with a convenient digital display instead of abandoning it.

Hand fatigue


A separate section of the study is devoted to the controls of the 1G46 sight. The handles provide aiming control in two planes. The left handle houses the rangefinder button, and the right handle houses the fire button.

The problem lies not only in the effort required but also in the trajectory of the handles. During work, the wrists visibly bend and straighten, deviating from the neutral position. At the same time, the elbow angle changes—from 70 to 86 degrees versus approximately 120 degrees in a more comfortable position.

The handles are positioned above elbow level. Without armrests, this places additional static strain on the shoulders and forearms. The gunner must simultaneously maintain arm balance and perform precise control movements.

Measurements showed that with prolonged work, the strength of the wrist grip initially increased slightly - probably as a result of the muscles being involved in the work - and then gradually decreased.

For both hands, a significant statistical relationship was found between work duration and the decline in grip strength.


The force required for control in most modes was within the physical capabilities of the soldiers. For example, horizontal movement of the sight handle required an initial force of approximately 7,15 kgf, followed by approximately 5,12 kgf. For vertical movement, the corresponding figures were approximately 6,43 and 4,93 kgf.

However, strength reserves cannot be considered in isolation. Even if a person is capable of exerting the required force at one time, prolonged work in an awkward position gradually reduces the precision and speed of movement. Fatigue in the hands, forearms, and shoulder girdle can cause a delay in control actions.

The authors draw an important conclusion: a decrease in grip strength can negatively impact the gunner's speed of action and cause a delay in aiming the gun at the target.

Tower volume


The gaps between the seat and the surrounding instruments ranged from 4 to 21 centimeters. Meanwhile, the average forearm length at the anthropometric site measured was 29,4 centimeters. Consequently, there was insufficient space for free arm movement.

Such cramped conditions force a person to follow limited movements, keeping their elbows close to their body, and bending their wrists. While in a typical workspace, an inconveniently located switch can be moved a few centimeters, inside a tank turret, any change faces numerous restrictions: the sight, gun breech, automatic loading mechanisms, armor elements, and the commander's station are all located nearby.

The welded T-90S turret has a larger internal volume than the earlier cast turret. According to the study, the increase is approximately 135 liters. However, this is not enough to radically eliminate the layout limitations. The additional volume is distributed throughout the turret's shape and is not necessarily located precisely where the gunner's arms, legs, or head are needed.

The discomfort


Subjective assessments confirmed the measurement results. Participants reported the highest average level of discomfort in the chest area—8,3 points out of 10. This was followed by the left erector spinae muscle—8,25 points, the head—8,2 points, the left gluteal region—8,1 points, the abdomen—8,05 points, and the neck—7,9 points.

High values ​​were also recorded in the trapezius muscles, forearms, wrists, right knee, and right shin. The distribution of discomfort was asymmetrical.

In the lower body, the right side experienced the greatest strain due to the restrictions created by the gunner's protective plate. In the upper body, the same plate, by contrast, provided some support on the right side, while the left side lacked similar support.
These results cannot be automatically interpreted as evidence of imminent injury or occupational disease.

The study was pilot and primarily assessed short-term reactions while working inside the machine. However, the combination of high subjective ratings and objectively uncomfortable joint angles points to a real problem.

Over long periods of time, such stress can lead to chronic neck and back pain, limb numbness, and the development of work-related musculoskeletal disorders. Furthermore, the discomfort can distract attention, impair concentration, and accelerate overall fatigue.

What is being proposed to change?


The most obvious upgrade is a new seat. It should be wider and deeper, have a more effective cushion, full lumbar support, and adjustable armrests. A system for quickly adjusting the height and fore/aft position without disassembling the mountings would be desirable.

However, simply increasing the size of a seat within an existing tower can reduce already limited access. Therefore, the seat should be considered not in isolation, but in conjunction with the surrounding equipment. Some units and switches may need to be reduced, relocated, or combined.

The second area is optimizing the information field. It's best to display key images and data on displays located within the natural line of sight. This will reduce the need to turn and tilt the head. Direct optical channels can be maintained as backup.

The third area is the redesign of the targeting controls. A compact joystick with adjustable positioning and forearm support can reduce strain on the hands and shoulders.

Control effort and sensitivity must be selected to provide a balance between precision, speed and protection against unintended movements.

Finally, seat cushioning is important. It should reduce the transmission of shock and vibration to the spine without causing body sway or impairing aiming accuracy.

Source:
"Ergonomic Analysis of the T-90S Tank Gunner's Workstation with Particular Reference to the Seat, Visual Aiming System, and Musculoskeletal Discomfort: A Pilot Study." Pankaj Kumar Sinha, Madhusudan Pal, Sunil Chandel. ASIAN JOURNAL OF MEDICAL SCIENCES
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  1. +9
    31 August 2026 02: 56
    As has become the custom historically, the person has been forgotten. It's the same as with Soviet disabled women, very similar.
    1. + 29
      31 August 2026 03: 20
      Quote from ZnachWest
      As has become the custom historically, the person has been forgotten. It's the same as with Soviet disabled women, very similar.

      On the contrary, they were thinking about humans, trying to make tanks lighter and faster, with smaller dimensions. And if you think all tanks in the world are comfortable and cozy, look up the memoirs of an Abrams gunner online; there's a lot of interesting stuff there. And the Abrams is a real mess.
      Tank designers worldwide face the same problem. The larger the tank's internal volume, the heavier its armored hull. The heavier the hull, the greater the load on the suspension and engine power; the greater both, the more powerful the transmission. More powerful the transmission, more powerful the suspension, more powerful the engine, which means even more internal volume needs to be increased. This means an even heavier hull, which means... and so on, in a circle.
      The Indians have been working on their Arjun for years now, and once they do it, the whole world will be amazed at how comfortable it is.
      1. + 11
        31 August 2026 04: 12
        You described it very well. Thank you.
        The Indians are really pissing us off with our tank modifications. They should at least put sports car seats in them.
        And yes, they will finally finish their miracle tank.
      2. + 17
        31 August 2026 05: 00
        I don't know about the disabled ones. But as for tanks, even compared to other T-72 upgrades, the B3 didn't really care about ergonomics. You have to twist your body like a 3-YU to look through the sight (one of the main functions). The T-90a is generally a bit better due to the larger welded turret, but it's still far from perfect.
        1. +2
          1 September 2026 10: 31
          Quote: tjeck91
          But when it comes to tanks, even compared to other T-72 upgrades, the B3 didn't pay much attention to ergonomics. To look through the sight (one of the main functions), you have to twist your body like a Z-shaped device.

          T - Tradition. smile
          The lack of visual communication between the tanks when solving the fire problem due to the fact that the only device that allows circular viewing - PT-6 is used only for aiming.
          (…)
          With simultaneous operation of the rotary mechanism and observation in the PT-6 device, the flywheel and the control handle rest against the chest, making it difficult for the turret to rotate quickly.
          (…)
          Turning the tower in any direction is possible only if the head is deflected from the forehead of the PT-6 device, i.e. the rotation of the tower is actually done blindly ...
          Telescopic sight TOD-6.
          The window of the scale of angles of aiming of the telescopic sight is blocked by the lever of the angles of the terrain of the PT-6 device ... Installation of sighting data is possible at elevation angles of 4 - 5,5 degrees and 9 - 12 degrees, which actually makes it impossible to fire with the TOD-6 sight.
          (…)
          Periscope sight PT-6.
          At an elevation angle of 7 degrees and below, up to the maximum descent angle, access to the handle of the circular view mechanism is possible with only three fingers.
          (…)
          The viewing device of the "circular review".
          Access to the device is extremely difficult and observation is possible in a limited sector to the right up to 120 degrees ... A limited field of view, the complete impossibility of observation in the rest of the sector and ... the inconvenient position of the head during observation makes the viewing device unusable.
          (…)
          Tower Observation Devices (Side)
          The location of the viewing devices relative to the observer is inconvenient. The disadvantages are a significant dead space (15,5 m), a small viewing angle, the impossibility of cleaning protective glasses without leaving the tank and a low position relative to the seat.
          All PT-6, TOD-6 sighting devices installed on the tank and observation devices in the fighting compartment and control compartment are not protected from atmospheric precipitation, road dust and dirt.
          © Ulanov / Shein
      3. 0
        31 August 2026 06: 24
        So, I immediately came up with a proposal to the respected author of this excellent article, E. Petrov, to try to provide comparative data on these parameters with other tank models.
        First, at least with our T-80, and then with foreign ones. Start with the Leopard, then compare it with the Merkava and the new South Korean tank. There's no need to describe "attics" like the Abrams and Challenger; they're not a model for us, just like the French ones, designed for LGBT asses.
        1. +5
          31 August 2026 13: 42
          The authors are Pankaj Kumar Sinha, Madhusudan Pal, Sunil Chandel.
          When a book or article appears with comparative data on such parameters with other tank models, a respected author will immediately write an article.
          1. -4
            31 August 2026 15: 44
            And who accepted these tanks from the customer during state testing? That's the cause of all the troubles. Incompetent, "armchair" tank crews from the capital who have practically nothing to do with the army. All the questions are directed at them! Their names are known; they're on the acceptance certificates...
            1. 0
              31 August 2026 20: 43
              Quote: BOCTOK 77
              And who accepted these tanks from the customer during state testing? That's the cause of all the troubles. Incompetent, "armchair" tank crews from the capital who have almost nothing in common with the army. All the questions are directed at them.

              According to the article, the ergonomics check was carried out by specialists.
              But it is unknown whether there were any points on ergonomics in the Technical Specifications for the development of the T-90S.
              This is a question for both the customer and the developer.
              1. 0
                1 September 2026 16: 08
                There are generally accepted things and rules that are taken for granted.
                1. +1
                  1 September 2026 23: 17
                  You're mistaken. Ergonomic requirements are spelled out in great detail. The Indians lay everything out clearly and in sufficient detail.
                  For example, when developing a car, the ergonomic requirements are slightly more comprehensive than those in the report being commented on. And if the requirements aren't included, no one will work on them—for example, a tank and its components are developed by hundreds of people, each with their own area of ​​responsibility, each doing their own work and having neither the time, authority, nor inclination to do anyone else's work.
                  1. 0
                    8 September 2026 14: 21
                    You're mistaken. Ergonomic requirements are spelled out in great detail.

                    The Bauman Moscow State Technical University's tank design textbook has an entire section on ergonomics. If the designers didn't attend university...
                    And anyway, why did these Indians recruit such tall tank crewmen? Our military recruitment offices have a recommended height...
                2. +1
                  4 September 2026 16: 02
                  BOCTOBER 77 (Okko 077, vo3a)
                  There are generally accepted things and rules that are taken for granted.


                  Generally accepted things and rules are called GTR (General Technical Requirements). When writing a technical specification with your right hand, you hold the GTR in your left hand.
        2. -1
          7 September 2026 09: 33
          From everything written, you are only interested in men's butts, you could not have written.
          1. 0
            8 September 2026 05: 23
            Kisulkin, I just checked out your account and saw the pitiful amount of comments you've posted over the past seven years. Ask yourself: Why are you here, labeled as a perpetual failing student? And the zero on your badge clearly indicates your level of intelligence and banal literacy (a man's girlfriend or his ass). lol
      4. 0
        31 August 2026 07: 21
        The army and comfort are generally incompatible. And in war, you can get killed.
        1. 0
          31 August 2026 15: 36
          It depends on the number and size of the stars on the shoulder straps. The wearers of these stars are also part of the army. Yes
        2. +6
          31 August 2026 20: 43
          Quote: novel xnumx
          The army and comfort are generally incompatible things.
          Strange. But Semyon Alekseevich Lavochkin, for example, considered ensuring pilot comfort an important task.
          During the war, the Lavochkin Design Bureau received almost constant reports and telegrams from pilots and technicians with comments from the front. These quickly reached the design bureau, and the bureau addressed many of them.
          Pilots complained about cabin discomfort, fatigue on long flights, poor visibility, and control difficulties—and these comments were taken into account and improved:
          cockpit and visibility: the glazing, the shape of the canopy, and the arrangement of the instruments were changed so that the pilot could see the situation better and be less tired;
          Controls: We adjusted the force on the handle and pedals, and modified the wiring to make piloting less tiring;
          Everyday details: improved ventilation, thought out access to equipment, simplified maintenance—this also affected the “comfort” of the pilot and technician.
          Semyon Alekseyevich asked our pilots who had had the chance to fly the Focke-Wulf 190 to send his design bureau the most detailed reports and impressions of the German aircraft. Semyon Alekseyevich incorporated many of the positive features our pilots noted about the Focke-Wulf 190 into his own aircraft.
          1. 0
            31 August 2026 22: 33
            But the T-34 remained as awkward for the crew as it was. It won the war.
            1. 0
              1 September 2026 01: 50
              I read in the memoirs of a German tank commander how their tank took up a position at the rear of a group of advancing Russians and fired at them for quite some time, starting from the rear. This may be a lie, but the T-34's visibility was truly subpar. Loza wrote a similar comparison between the Sherman and the T-34.
              1. +1
                1 September 2026 10: 36
                Quote from solar
                I read in the memoirs of a German tank driver how their tank fell in behind a group of our advancing tanks and fired at them for quite some time, starting from the rear. This may be a lie, but the T-34's visibility was truly subpar.

                If I remember correctly, Jentz described an incident in which a T-34 that had broken through the German defenses was knocked out by a "troika" (tank troika) that had emerged from the rear. Moreover, the "troika" fired at the T-34 for quite a while before knocking it out.
                However, judging by the test results cited above, the T-34's visibility was slightly better than nothing. The driver and his hatch were the crew's primary source of information before the introduction of the domestically produced Mk.IV and the turret commander.
            2. +1
              1 September 2026 23: 43
              Quote: novel xnumx
              But the T-34 remained as awkward for the crew as it was. It won the war.

              The Germans were armed with captured T-34s.
              But they improved them - they installed a commander's cupola to improve visibility.
          2. 0
            1 September 2026 23: 35
            Quote: Seal
            Many of the positive features that our pilots noted on the Focke-Wulf 190, Semyon Alekseevich implemented on his own aircraft.

            Lavochkin publicly stated after inspecting the FW-190 that he had found nothing of interest...
            For example, on our fighters, including the LaGG and La, the pilot had to monitor engine temperature in combat and manually adjust the air flaps, otherwise he could overheat or overcool the engine. However, in a maneuverable battle, he didn't have time to do this.
            On the FW-190, fuel supply, propeller pitch and air flaps were controlled automatically by a single handle.
      5. +6
        31 August 2026 10: 39
        The Indians have been working on their Arjun for years now, and once they do it, the whole world will be amazed at how comfortable it is.

        If it is impossible to sing and dance in the Arjuna Tower, it does not count. wassat
      6. +4
        31 August 2026 11: 14
        Quote: abc_alex
        The Indians have been working on their Arjun for years now, and once they do it, the whole world will be amazed at how comfortable it is.

        The dream of Indian tank crews will come true - to express their battle emotions in the rhythm of dance! (Jimmy, jimmy, acha, acha!) That's why Indians don't like our tanks; because they are not adapted for Indian dances!
      7. +1
        31 August 2026 11: 48
        "And if you think all the tanks in the world are comfortable and cozy, then look up the memoirs of an Abrams gunner online." And the driver in the Abrams is basically lying down. Not the most comfortable position for driving a tank.
        1. +4
          31 August 2026 12: 36
          Quote: papas-57
          "And if you think that all the tanks in the world are comfortable and cozy, then look up the memoirs of an Abrams gunner online."
          The first three photos show the Abrams gunner's station (various modifications). I wonder how he'll get out of there if the tank commander is concussed.

          Quote: papas-57
          And the Abrams driver is basically lying down. Not the best position for driving a tank.
          There are probably some nuances here, since we, too, have developed a similar tendency to position the driver in a reclining position (while studying the British Chieftain, we concluded that the driver tires less, as discussed in an article here on VO). Our Object-187 (No. 6) driver was positioned in a reclining position, and in the T-14 Armata, he's also reclining, but not in the same way as in the Abrams (fifth photo).
          The first three photos show the gunner and commander of the Abrams. Photo 4 shows the T-14 driver, and the fifth photo shows the Abrams driver (simulator).
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. 0
          1 September 2026 23: 46
          Quote: papas-57
          The Abrams driver is basically lying down. Not the best position for driving a tank.

          The British were the first to invent the prone driver's position on the Chieftain tank. The Americans, without much thought, simply stole it.
      8. 0
        3 September 2026 11: 04
        I saw a shed where I sat as a gunner in a Soviet infantry fighting vehicle. I can say it's very traumatic, which affects accuracy (or rather, the lack thereof) when shooting on the move, and can lead to head injuries. I don't think the newer versions are any better. And yes, historically, people are always the last thing on our minds. Lightness, power, and so on and so forth come first... Smartphones have the same problem—squeezing in a new component is very difficult. There's even an engineering specialization dedicated to "cramming in the uncrammable." As an analogy. Does tank building have one? I think it's worthwhile.
      9. 0
        4 September 2026 14: 53
        Well, yes. The main thing is that you can dance in their Arjuna. Armor, maneuverability, and armament are not important factors for the Indians.
    2. 0
      31 August 2026 04: 21
      Quote from ZnachWest
      As has become the custom historically, the person has been forgotten. It's the same as with Soviet disabled women, very similar.

      That's right... and the expression "women will give birth to new ones" comes from there...
    3. +9
      31 August 2026 04: 41
      The Americans once noted that the Russians are developing a special breed of tank crew to serve in the T72 and T90.
    4. -1
      4 September 2026 21: 09
      Quote from ZnachWest
      As has become the custom historically, the person has been forgotten. It's the same as with Soviet disabled women, very similar.
      Actually, this is military equipment, not a Mercedes vs. Lada Kalina.
      Did you even know that back in the Soviet era, MBTs were designed for a five-minute fight? After that, it's kaput. And ergonomics are a big no-no—you'd have to crawl out of a damaged vehicle. The Germans, of all people, had perfect ergonomics in their Tiger tanks. And in their Panther tanks, too, with their 3-series and 4-series. And from a technical standpoint, too. Technical, not production-grade. The outcome is well-known.
      1. 0
        7 September 2026 14: 36
        And our regiment was officially designed for a two-hour battle (among others, the officers hoped for at least half an hour). And times were tense. (The regiment was stationed 20 kilometers from the British Rhine Division, damn it...). When it was needed (on the day of Brezhnev's death), it took about an hour just to get the ammunition out of the depot. But the connection between ergonomics and shooting accuracy remains.
  2. + 12
    31 August 2026 02: 57
    Here it is, the best result of the optimization of controls and ergonomics in the T-90S tank, as seen by an Indian in the form of tank troops!!!
  3. + 18
    31 August 2026 03: 59
    That's why the Soviet Army recruited short, squat men to be tank crews, just slightly smaller than the average height and body size for men. It's easier to fit a man into a tank than to fit a tank into a man. T-90s, they're such parasites, all hand-picked, one-size-fits-all!
    1. +7
      31 August 2026 04: 14
      laughing You might think that most Indians are giants.
      Quite the opposite, actually.
    2. + 12
      31 August 2026 04: 16
      Quote: Silbi
      That's why the SA recruited short and plump men to be tank crews, slightly smaller than the average height and body size for men.

      That's all understandable, but the average person has grown considerably since then. Look at the goblins in high school. Soon there won't be anyone left to recruit as tank crewmen. And the Indians are so soft... At 180 cm tall, they should be stuffed into a T-55, like in the Soviet-era marines.
      1. +3
        31 August 2026 09: 29
        Quote: AlexSam
        But since then, the average person has grown considerably.
        I served in the 70s, and back then we were told that all military equipment was made based on a soldier's height of 175 cm, and so on.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +1
          31 August 2026 23: 35
          Quote: Bad_gr
          I served in the 70s, and back then we were told that all military equipment was made based on a soldier's height of 175 cm, and so on.

          In fact, this is a serious problem for all our armored vehicles, which were designed to the standards of the 60s and 70s. Since then, the average height and weight of soldiers have increased, body armor has been introduced, but hatches and crew compartments have remained the same.
          Soldiers are already asking for larger hatches on the BMP-3. What if exoskeletons are next?
          1. +2
            31 August 2026 23: 46
            Quote: Cympak
            What if exoskeletons come next?
            Specifically, regarding the tank crew, an exoskeleton has no place in a tank. However, the crew members must wear body armor, and they shouldn't get stuck in hatches.
            Regarding height. On older tanks, height is a hindrance for the driver and loader. For the commander and gunner, this isn't a problem (we had an officer as a platoon commander who was well over 190 cm tall, and he didn't complain (T-62)). On the T-14 "Armata," the driver is positioned in a reclining position, and in my opinion, the height tolerances for this position should be much wider.
          2. 0
            3 September 2026 11: 12
            That's why they're switching to drones as the only way out.
    3. 0
      1 September 2026 01: 57
      It's easier to fit a man into a tank than a tank into a man.

      Schwarzenegger was a driver in the army. He drove an M47 Patton II. He later bought the tank he served in.
      Here he crushed a limousine for some show.
      https://youtu.be/cWgqRGKxLbo
  4. +3
    31 August 2026 04: 44
    This "research" is a classic Indian "song and dance" to either reduce the price of the T-90 in the contract, or to increase the "kickback".
    Doing business with Indians is not like driving elephants to watering holes.
    1. +2
      31 August 2026 06: 19
      They've been twisting the arms of you-know-who at Uralvagonzavod since you-know-who was deputy prime minister. They're driving me crazy, those gypsies.
      1. +5
        31 August 2026 20: 51
        Quote: alexputnik17
        They've been twisting the arms of you-know-who at Uralvagonzavod since you-know-who was deputy prime minister. They're driving me crazy, those gypsies.

        If it weren't for the Indians, the T-90 wouldn't have existed at all. Uralvagonzavod needed to survive; there were no buyers. It's a good thing the Indians, with their desires, came along.
        By the way, at one time, the built-in cannon on the MiG-21 was returned at the request of the Indians - with the cannon in a suspended container; they flatly refused to buy the MiG-21.
    2. +1
      31 August 2026 20: 24
      Quote: Amateur
      This "research" is a classic Indian "song and dance" to either reduce the price of the T-90 in the contract, or to increase the "kickback".
      Which of the following data do you consider to be false?
      1. 0
        1 September 2026 05: 07
        Why should I prove anything to you? I've expressed my opinion. If you don't like it, express yours, or better yet, provide specific arguments. It will be interesting. And not just for me.
  5. +4
    31 August 2026 04: 46
    How to indians The ergonomics of the gunner's workstation in the T-90S were appreciated
    belay
    Well, yes. And what could be more important than the competent perspective of Indians, as a country with a distinguished history and traditions in tank building. winked multiplied by many years of experience.
  6. -1
    31 August 2026 05: 06
    The Gypsies are already annoying us with their "director's inventions." Half their population lives in poverty, so they'd be lucky to be in our tank. Who's to blame for the Indians' wide butts? Seriously, there are soldiers in the tank, and a soldier must endure all the hardships and privations of military service. In some cases, it's better to strain your neck than lose your head. Our designers sought to minimize the tank's silhouette and thus increase its survivability. Now our soldiers at the front and designers in factories are perfecting the combat vehicle, while the Gypsies, with their "research," are simply trying to drive down the prices of our equipment.
    1. +3
      31 August 2026 06: 30
      Quote: torbas41
      The Gypsies are already annoying us with their "director's inventions." Half their population lives in poverty, so they'd be lucky to be in our tank. Who's to blame for the Indians' wide butts? Seriously, there are soldiers in the tank, and a soldier must endure all the hardships and privations of military service. In some cases, it's better to strain your neck than lose your head. Our designers sought to minimize the tank's silhouette and thus increase its survivability. Now our soldiers at the front and designers in factories are perfecting the combat vehicle, while the Gypsies, with their "research," are simply trying to drive down the prices of our equipment.

      In today's reality, a tank is unlikely to have to participate in breakthroughs and duels.
      But even during the Second World War, German tanks were superior in ergonomics, tactics, and optics, so their losses and production were lower than in the USSR.
      1. 0
        1 September 2026 18: 23
        One of the main tank designers was Ferdinand Porsche, yes, that same one.... So, due to the tank's heavy weight, he arranged the track rollers in two rows, staggered... Now imagine replacing the inner roller in combat conditions....
        What I mean is, "What do you want, checkers or to go?"
        Where did WWII end?
        1. +3
          2 September 2026 00: 24
          Quote: Samoyed
          One of the main tank designers was Ferdinand Porsche, yes, that same one.... So, due to the tank's heavy weight, he arranged the track rollers in two rows, in a staggered pattern...
          The staggered arrangement of road wheels (Schachtellaufwerk) was invented in the 1930s by German engineer Heinrich Kniepkamp. It was used on both tanks (Pz.Kpfw.V (Panzerkampfwagen V "Panther"), Pz.Kpfw.VI Ausf.E "Tiger") and half-track armored personnel carriers.
          The chassis proposed by Porsche for the heavy tank (Tiger (P) "Porsche Tiger" (VK 4501 (P)) had a standard arrangement of rollers; it was not adopted for the tank, but it was used for the Ferdinand self-propelled gun.
          The first photo shows the road wheels of a Pz.Kpfw. VI Tiger tank, the second photo shows a version of a heavy tank from Porsche (whose chassis was later used for a self-propelled gun), and the third photo shows a Ferdinand self-propelled gun on a Porsche chassis.
    2. 0
      3 September 2026 11: 26
      Did you ever serve in the army? If so, in which branch?
  7. +6
    31 August 2026 06: 04
    A T-90S "Bhishma" tank, refitted for high-ranking officials, was spotted during exercises in India.
    1. -1
      3 September 2026 11: 27
      In the Russian tank army, a "high-ranking" person can be identified by a log on the hull)).
  8. + 15
    31 August 2026 07: 48
    The British Matilda tank had an adjustable seat back in 1940! And when the tank arrived in the USSR, many tankers would bounce up and down on it while relaxing, and it was a great way to unwind. "British Tanks at Krutoy Log." The memoirs of tanker Chibisov. He goes on to write that everything in that tank was designed for the comfort of the crew, while in ours...who knows for whom! His memoirs are fascinating; if anyone has the opportunity, read them!
    1. 0
      3 September 2026 11: 32
      Maybe Tsybizova? Chibisov's nowhere to be found...
      1. 0
        3 September 2026 15: 05
        Quote from ZnachWest
        Maybe Tsybizova? Chibisov is nowhere to be found.

        What are you typing into the internet, sir? I type in "English tanks at Krutoy Log" and the computer tells me: "English tanks at Krutoy Log - Chibisov V.P."
        rusneb.ru›catalog/000199_000009_000902713/
  9. BAI
    + 11
    31 August 2026 08: 29
    The Indians haven't seen our deputy get stuck in a tank hatch at an exhibition yet.
    1. 0
      3 September 2026 11: 33
      What was he doing there? He was probably seeing a tank for the first time in his life, trying to close a childhood gestalt?
  10. +5
    31 August 2026 08: 43
    If the gunner is 20-25 years old, these discomforts are generally unnoticeable. The body recovers faster than it tires, as long as the diet is adequate.
    But for a forty-year-old contract soldier, it's truly tough. A 50-kilometer march, then a combat mission—you'll truly be a spent lemon.
  11. + 16
    31 August 2026 08: 44
    How Indians assessed the ergonomics of the T-90S gunner's station

    You can criticize the Indians for a long time, but what they brought... it's true.
    We've long forgotten how tank troops were recruited in Soviet times: height was the most important factor, followed by other body parameters...
    About 20 years ago, a neighbor's kid was drafted into the army. The military registration and enlistment office sent him to the tank corps, even though he had trained as a driver at DOSAAF...
    Yes, and the boy's height was about 190 cm...
    It ended with him suffering a spinal injury and, after lengthy "treatments" in hospitals, he was discharged from the army - early...
    Here's the story...
    1. 0
      3 September 2026 11: 36
      With such a height, the spine is generally weak.
  12. +3
    31 August 2026 08: 54
    Did the Indians design their Arjun tank with ergonomics and comfort in mind?
    1. +9
      31 August 2026 10: 28
      Here, ergonomics are done as best we can (everyone has a designer's handbook with little people). Especially if it's a modernization, they just stick new equipment in wherever it fits. About 25 years ago, they wanted to make the Institute of Space Medicine the leading ergonomics institute in the Red Army, but it didn't work out. I'm sure a lot of people were scared. It's the only organization that understands this. Generally speaking, technology should be built around people, but here we build the technology first, then shove people in. I wonder if a pilot in a critical situation performs about two operations per second. If you were to calculate the actions of a tank crew with proper ergonomics, how much more efficient would that be? I recommend looking at German photos of mock-ups of crew positions.
      1. -4
        31 August 2026 10: 45
        Will there be an answer regarding the Arjun tank?
        Or just stories about the lack of ergonomics in Soviet armored vehicles.
        1. +3
          31 August 2026 18: 23
          Quote: hohol95
          Will there be an answer regarding the Arjun tank?
          Or just stories about the lack of ergonomics in Soviet armored vehicles.

          The Indians can do whatever they want, it's their own business. We're talking about our masochistic tank crews. You could also write that the Bradley is garbage, and the BMP-3 is unparalleled. Paper will bear anything.
          1. -3
            31 August 2026 19: 22
            You've already written that Bradley is dung!
            Is there any information about Arjun?
            Or what did the Indians themselves do with the T-90?
    2. 0
      31 August 2026 13: 35
      Naturally! And they installed a KV-1 turret so the tankers wouldn't have to hit their heads on the bumps.
  13. +1
    31 August 2026 09: 08
    Not knock-knock of course. Do better.
  14. +4
    31 August 2026 09: 24
    .....Finally, seat cushioning is important. It should reduce the transmission of shock and vibration to the spine without causing body sway or impairing aiming accuracy.

    And will the sight eyepiece also move up and down synchronously with the gunner and his shock-absorbing seat, or what?
    1. 0
      31 August 2026 18: 27
      Quote: Bad_gr
      .....Finally, seat cushioning is important. It should reduce the transmission of shock and vibration to the spine without causing body sway or impairing aiming accuracy.

      And will the sight eyepiece also move up and down synchronously with the gunner and his shock-absorbing seat, or what?

      You should ask the Americans, or the Israelis, or the Germans. For some reason, they make all sorts of features, like MRA with shock-absorbing seats for paratroopers.
      1. 0
        31 August 2026 18: 47
        Quote: Panin (Michman)
        For some reason they make various features like MRA with shock-absorbing seats for the landing force.
        So, for paratroopers, it's all logical. But a gunner jumping on a shock absorber in front of the optical sight risks, at the very least, smashing his face into the sight.
    2. 0
      1 September 2026 23: 57
      Quote: Bad_gr
      And will the sight eyepiece also move up and down synchronously with the gunner and his shock-absorbing seat, or what?

      The seat needs to be moved precisely to get the eye closer to the eyepiece. Tankers can be of slightly different heights.
      1. 0
        1 September 2026 23: 59
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        Quote: Bad_gr
        And will the sight eyepiece also move up and down synchronously with the gunner and his shock-absorbing seat, or what?

        The seat needs to be moved precisely to get the eye closer to the eyepiece. Tankers can be of slightly different heights.
        We are not talking about the seat adjustments, but about its soft suspension.
  15. +6
    31 August 2026 10: 08
    Until 1943, tank crews were trained, and after 1943, they began to train them, honing every combat maneuver to the point of automatism. As for the tanks themselves, in Russia, building tanks that are uncomfortable for the crew is a "sacred" tradition! How can this tradition be broken? Simply put every designer and his crew in a tank and march it 300 km across rough terrain at high speed. Either the tradition will break, or the designers' lower backs and rectums will be destroyed.
    1. -9
      31 August 2026 12: 36
      Yeah, right, and then they'll make you a limousine that's one and a half times bigger, just as heavy, and more expensive. Want an Abrams? Yes, the USSR built tanks for combat, not for a comfortable ride over hundreds of kilometers. You have to choose what you want: a combat vehicle or a tank for who knows what purpose. Examples include the Tiger and the IS-2, the Panther and the T-34-85—the results are well-known.
      1. +8
        31 August 2026 12: 52
        Yeah, Vityusha's talking like a designer! Someone with a knack for the wrong reasons. Like, "A tank lasts two minutes on the battlefield! That's why it doesn't need any fancy gadgets!" That's why not a single Russian tank has mine protection, anti-drone protection, anti-radar protection, anti-laser protection, all-round visibility, a reverser in the chassis, Kevlar suits, helmets with on-screen indicators, or robotic weapon control systems. They don't even have the "Sh"-type projectile for fighting drones and infantry!
    2. 0
      31 August 2026 20: 27
      Quote: sergiogerasimo
      As for the tanks themselves, in Russia, building tanks that are uncomfortable for the crew is a "sacred" tradition! How can this tradition be broken?
      Stop including parameters in the specifications that would only allow a person to fit crookedly in a tank (or other vehicle). Fortunately, the engines already allow for this.
      1. 0
        31 August 2026 22: 17
        The engine is still the same, made in 1938.
        1. +1
          31 August 2026 22: 22
          Quote: sergiogerasimo
          The engine is still the same, made in 1938.
          Especially the T-64 and T-80, right? But that's not what was meant: when engine power increased from 500 to 1000 horsepower, you could make a taller tank—it would handle it. Plus, a low silhouette used to protect against anti-tank artillery, but that's not really relevant anymore (ATGMs don't care if you're 20 centimeters shorter).
          1. +1
            1 September 2026 08: 08
            Currently, Russia doesn't produce the engine that powered the T-64, and there are problems even with producing the T-80 engine. Even armor and tracks are in short supply. The Taburetkins and the reindeer herders have thoroughly destroyed the Russian army.
            1. 0
              1 September 2026 11: 23
              Quote: sergiogerasimo
              Currently, there is no production of the engine that was installed on the T-64 in Russia.
              But there was one.
          2. +1
            1 September 2026 11: 01
            Quote: bk0010
            Especially for the T-64 and T-80, right?

            The T-64 engine remains in the same place as the T-64. But the military is somewhat wary of the T-80's gas turbine engine. Apparently, they don't want to replace one tanker on the payroll with two or three. smile
            So what we are left with is the eleventh version of the B-2.
            1. +2
              1 September 2026 11: 27
              Quote: Alexey RA
              The military is somewhat wary of the T-80 gas turbine engine. Apparently, they don't want to replace one tanker on the payroll with two or three.
              It's just that it's expensive, incredibly expensive. And you can't repair it in the field.
    3. 0
      3 September 2026 11: 38
      There's a film showing how the designers drove a tank for about 300 km...
      1. +1
        3 September 2026 15: 26
        The driver, alone, died. The others couldn't even finish the clutch pedal. The drivers had to come up with their own solution and attach a spring. That's how tanks are still made in Russia: they'll assemble a piece of crap and then ship it to the troops. Then they'll get a list of defects, fix a couple, and ship it back to the troops. Nothing's changed since 1940.
  16. +7
    31 August 2026 10: 43
    I remembered the "endless" competition between the Ka-50 and Mi-28.
    Kamovtsy:
    - Guys, think about it and tell me what else you need.
    Milevtsy:
    — Eat whatever they give you!
    So, it is also not worth generalizing the “Soviet” approach globally.
  17. -3
    31 August 2026 12: 32
    What needs to be changed? Yes, the Indians. A tank isn't a limousine; if you want comfort, you'll have to increase its size. Any increase in size will reduce the remaining space, and people will immediately start complaining about hitting the back and edges of the seat.
  18. -4
    31 August 2026 14: 42
    Another Bollywood ploy to lower prices. A hoax. If only they'd given away a tank for free, and built a factory and licensed it—then yes! An excellent tank. Absolutely no flaws!!! I'm sick of these turban-wearers. Nothing new. Another "Give it away for free" play!
  19. +3
    31 August 2026 15: 24
    On May 22, the Indian Heavy Vehicles Factory completed production of the 1000th T-90 tank. The factory operates under a licensing agreement signed between India and Russia in 2006. Over nearly 20 years, the plant has produced 1000 T-90 tanks, the first of which rolled off the assembly line in 2009.
    news.mail.ru
  20. 0
    31 August 2026 15: 31
    Well, at least starting with something simple—at least a seat. Did they have enough local engineering brains to make their own, or are they just stuck with the "uncomfortable" one?! Let them try to squeeze something wider into the 70s body.
    You need to eat less!)
  21. +1
    31 August 2026 22: 06
    Some commentators pounced on the author. "And they have this, and they have that..."

    But if their tank crews also have a hard time in their tank, that doesn’t mean we should be proud of our hardships?
    Maybe we need to assemble according to height, weight and body mass?
    They don't select submariners who are "at least 195 cm tall"?
    And to drive a car you don't have to be "no taller than 150 cm"?
    Well, they don't select those who can see perfectly well from two meters with both eyes as snipers, do they?
    1. +3
      31 August 2026 23: 27
      Quote from Fangaro
      Maybe we need to assemble according to height, weight and body mass?
      More attention needs to be paid to ergonomics. For example, when upgrading the T-72, a new primary sight was installed where the night sight used to be, and a backup sight was installed where the old primary sight used to be. The new primary sight is good, but in this case, it's positioned in such a way that it's completely inconvenient to use, even though it's the primary sight, meaning the gunner must use it constantly. And if it's inconvenient, that leads to increased gunner fatigue, which in turn reduces combat readiness.
      Modern T-90s don't have this problem with sights, since it was decided from the start what would be where.
  22. 0
    2 September 2026 11: 11
    Interesting and informative, but there is also a question.
    Here's the quote: "However, simply increasing the size of the seat within an existing tower can reduce already limited passageways. Therefore, the seat should not be considered in isolation, but in conjunction with the surrounding equipment. Some units and switches may need to be reduced, relocated, or combined."
    The actual question is: "What are we talking about? A tank or a passenger car?"
    The main purpose of a tank is war, not the comfort of the crew when moving from point to point.
    Furthermore, I've never heard of a tank itself or its equipment/weapons being designed and built with ergonomics in mind. So, the question arises that the tank gun is too loud. It's even unacceptably loud, based on sanitary and industrial safety standards, and something needs to be done about this, and urgently!
  23. +1
    3 September 2026 08: 26
    Yes, there is a problem. But Indian dancers also have impressive butts.
  24. 0
    3 September 2026 17: 03
    Maybe at least the Indians will force our defense industry to think not only about the performance characteristics of combat vehicles, but also about the living people who are inside and working.
    In Russia, traditionally, the individual is in second place in all spheres, not only in military affairs...
  25. 0
    4 September 2026 12: 46
    Any accomplished tankers here? What do you think of the Korean T2? I intuitively like it. I used to be interested in armored vehicles.
    1. 0
      9 September 2026 20: 46
      A mix of Leopard and Leclerc, untested. What's special about it?
  26. 0
    7 September 2026 09: 28
    Nowadays, tanks on the battlefield don't last long enough for the gunner to get tired or even aim.
    1. 0
      10 September 2026 14: 55
      It also seems to me that it’s like with aircraft carriers --- powerful, but vulnerable, by today’s standards.
  27. 0
    9 September 2026 20: 44
    All Soviet vehicles are made for dwarfs; you can't turn around inside them at temperatures above 165°C—whether in a tank or an infantry fighting vehicle. There are sharp welds all around and it stinks of diesel.