On the professionalism of the Red Navy officers in the 30s

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On the professionalism of the Red Navy officers in the 30s

In my previous article, I described three problems that created a "perfect storm" in the Soviet Navy's training system in the 30s. Specifically:

1. A decline in the quality of education due to a chronic shortage of teachers, given that many of them were "stuck" in the past and were unable or unwilling to keep up with the times: the knowledge they imparted to cadets would have been relevant before the First, but certainly not before the Second World War.

2. A decline in the quality of applicants compared to tsarist times.

3. Explosive growth in numbers fleets and the corresponding increase in the need for commanders.

I would like to talk about the latter in more detail.

About the shortage in 1937-1941.


The authorized strength of commanders and political officers in the USSR Navy increased from 13,500 to 40,662 between January 1, 1937, and February 1, 1941, a period of four years and one month—an almost threefold increase. This despite the fact that in 1937, the fleet was nowhere near its authorized strength. The shortage of commanders at all levels amounted to:

In the surface fleet - 40%;

In the submarine fleet - 24%;

In fortified areas - 40%;

In ports - 30%.

Moreover, in 1937, the number of graduates from existing military schools did not cover the existing needs within a reasonable timeframe (2-3 years), so extraordinary measures had to be resorted to: short-term courses for junior lieutenants and technicians (for 300 people) and for administrative and economic service command personnel (for 60 people). Given this, the 1937 shortage could have been resolved, but where would the nearly 30,000 additional commanders be found in the next four years?

Titanic efforts were required to address the personnel shortage. But the problem could not be resolved in such a short timeframe, which is why, for example, the Red Banner Baltic Fleet (RBF) had a total shortage of 30,6% of its total command personnel (2,421) on January 21, 1941. Meanwhile, the shortage in the surface fleet was 26%, meaning the situation had improved percentage-wise compared to 1937. However, in the submarine fleet, the situation worsened, as the shortage increased from 24% to 31%. There was a shortage of commanders at all levels, but especially miners, navigators, mechanics, and gunners. The RBF headquarters was 86,6% staffed, with 84 instead of 97.

The situation in other fleets was no better. And so, despite the 30,6% rate, the Red Banner Baltic Fleet command was forced to transfer 66 commanders (0,86% of the authorized strength) to other fleets in 1940.

On the one hand, given the threefold increase in the fleet's authorized strength, even this shortfall seems like a victory and an achievement on the brink of possibility. On the other hand, it was a colossal failure. In 1940, half of the Baltic Fleet's submarines lacked navigators, and a third lacked commanders for their mine-torpedo unit.

When speed is harmful


The fleet was being built, but graduates from the Naval School and other higher education institutions were nowhere near providing the necessary flow of commanders. It's important to understand that the Naval School doesn't train senior officers or ship commanders, just as a modern technical university doesn't train chief designers or technologists. Graduates from these institutions were entitled to junior officer ranks, and they had to "grow" further during their service to reach higher ranks.

But the new ships required not only junior but also senior officers, and there was absolutely nowhere to get them. Therefore, the only way to obtain the required number of commanders was through a highly flawed method: the rapid, essentially out-of-turn promotion of military ranks.

This circumstance was particularly noted by the Commander-in-Chief of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet, Second Rank Flag Officer L.M. Galler, back in 1935. He noted that the promotion of naval commanders was becoming extremely rapid, citing the situation on the Malyutka-class submarines, where half of the commanders were graduates of the Naval School of the 1931-1933 class. This means that even in 1935, there were ship commanders who had served in the navy for only a couple of years!

The situation didn't improve further. Thus, at a meeting of the Baltic Fleet Military Council in the presence of People's Commissar of the Navy N. G. Kuznetsov on June 4, 1939, officers noted that of the seven patrol ship commanders, only one was in his second year of command. Of the seventeen submarine commanders, only one had been granted independent command. Was it any wonder that the overwhelming majority of the Baltic Fleet's main formation commanders received critical reviews at this meeting? After all, they were just as "precocious" as the ship commanders.

When in June 1940 it was necessary to transfer submarines from the Baltic to the Northern Fleet, they had to replace their commanders - it was simply dangerous to send "regular" ones on such a mission.

By the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, only 25% of all submarine and submarine brigade commanders had held their posts for more than 2 years, and among submarine division commanders, only 36%.

Those who lacked sufficient education were also forced to be promoted. If we look at the naval command staff, ranging from junior lieutenant to captain lieutenant, we see that such officers were required to have at least a secondary education. However, as of early 1941, the following officers held these ranks:



With higher education - 21%;

With secondary education - 40,5%;

With incomplete secondary education - 24%;

With primary education - 14,5%.

Thus, it can be concluded that 38,5% of our commanders from junior lieutenant to captain-lieutenant did not have the education corresponding to their position.

The composition of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet headquarters at the beginning of 1941 is very revealing. Clearly, this headquarters occupied a high position in the naval hierarchy. However, while the authorized strength was 97, only 84 were available, but among those available were officers who had completed:

Naval or Military Transport Academies - 11%;

Higher specialized courses of the Navy - 46%;

Other military schools or schools of the Red Army (in the naval direction) - 20%;

Commander courses - 7%;

Without education - 15%.

That is, even in the KBF headquarters, out of 84 people, 6 were “students” and 13 people had no education at all!

Among the senior naval commanders, who a priori were expected to have a higher education, 29% had only a secondary education.

But the problem with the senior command staff was not so much a question of education as a lack of continuity. The country had only recently survived the First World War, which ended for us with the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk signed on March 3, 1918. But by the start of the Great Patriotic War, only four officers and admirals had command experience at the officer rank during the First World War. In general, the problem of insufficient training and inexperience among the command staff was fully evident among the senior naval officers. It's enough to look at the leadership of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet.

At the beginning of the Soviet-Finnish War of 1939-1940, the Baltic Fleet was commanded by the 2nd rank flagship V.F. Tributs.


During the Civil War, he served as a medical assistant on ships of the Volga-Caspian Military Flotilla, then from 1922 to 1926 he studied at the M.V. Frunze Naval School. He then served for three years on the battleship Parizhskaya Kommuna, the first year as commander. artillery tower, the next two—as the watch officer. The problem, however, was that in the three years from 1927 to 1928, the Parizhskaya Kommuna logged a whopping 821 sailing hours, equivalent to 34,2 days at sea. This means its operational stress coefficient, even if calculated by sailing hours (which is generally incorrect), was 0,031. I don't think the future admiral had the opportunity to learn much with such a long history at sea.

V.F. Tributs then trained at the Red Banner Baltic Fleet Naval Academy from 1929 to 1932, immediately following which he served for two years as first mate on the Marat. Following this, V.F. Tributs gained experience in independent ship command: for two years, from December 1934 to January 1937, he commanded the destroyer Yakov Sverdlov. V.F. Tributs was then sent to serve further at the Red Banner Baltic Fleet headquarters, where, in just over two years, he held the position of head of the combat training department, then acted as chief of staff, and then became chief of staff of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet. In April 1939, he was appointed to command the fleet.

That is, the fleet commander, under whose leadership the Red Banner Baltic Fleet entered the war with the Finns, had previously commanded a small warship with a crew (after modernization) of 168 people for only two years, and had never commanded a naval formation at all!

Things were slightly better with the Chief of Staff of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet, Yu. A. Panteleyev. Before becoming Chief of Staff, he had commanded a submarine brigade and then served as Deputy Chairman of the Standing Commission for Admissions to the People's Commissariat of the Navy.

The problem, however, was that Yu. A. Panteleyev's entire naval service, including command of a submarine brigade, was spent in the Black Sea, and he was appointed commander of the Baltic Fleet headquarters only on October 26, 1939, a month before the Finnish War. And, obviously, in such a short period of time, Yu. A. Panteleyev was unable to grasp the nuances and peculiarities of the new Baltic.

About junior commanders



The problem of officer shortages and inadequate training could have been somewhat offset by the presence of experienced and well-versed junior officers—that is, petty officers and squad leaders (meaning squad leaders, a rank abolished in 1943)—who were familiar with the materiel. But the Soviet Navy didn't have them either!

The Russian Imperial Navy placed a great deal of emphasis on training junior command personnel, resulting in some excellent conductors and non-commissioned officers. But even in Tsarist Russia, things weren't always smooth sailing, as one might recall. stories about the improper operation of water-tube boilers. However, after the revolution, the overwhelming majority of conductors and non-commissioned officers left the navy, and the USSR was forced to rebuild its junior command staff practically from scratch.

And things didn't work out. The fact that junior command personnel were required to possess a certain amount of technical knowledge was well understood in the Soviet Union. That a petty officer should be not just a technical specialist but also a commander was, apparently, less so. As a result, the average junior commanding officer in the 30s was a fairly good technical specialist, but a lousy line commander. In 1940, People's Commissar of the Navy N.G. Kuznetsov spoke at a meeting of fleet commanders:

Much has been said and written about the role of the junior commander and his or her importance in our armed forces. Everyone recognizes the exceptional role of such a figure in combat training and personnel management, yet very little is being done in this regard. Furthermore, almost nothing has been done to prepare the junior commander, to ensure that the navy has a truly junior commander...

Moreover, the situation with the training of junior commanders largely mirrored that of the Higher Specialized Courses: rather than the best sailors, the uneducated and undisciplined were sent for training, with the goal of eliminating them. Commanders preferred to retain disciplined and competent specialists, and given the chronic personnel shortage, it's hard to blame them for this.

In general, the situation with junior commanders was the same as with officers: their training did not meet the fleet's requirements, and their numbers were completely insufficient. As of October 1, 01.10.1940, the Baltic Fleet was short 719 petty officers and 217 squad leaders.

On the typical career of a Soviet Navy commander in the 30s


All of the above paints a rather bleak picture. There were many applicants to the Naval Schools, but the standard of applicants was so low that even those who failed the entrance exams had to be admitted. There was a shortage of teachers at the Naval Schools, and of those that did exist, many were stuck at the level of the First World War, if not the Russo-Japanese War. The educational institutions' facilities left much to be desired, and there were enormous problems with the training ships, resulting in cadets receiving theoretical training with little practical support. Cadets spent very little time at sea: "Our cadets sail the least; even the Finns sail three times more than our commanders" (Commander of the Baltic Fleet, Flag Officer 1st Rank I.S. Isakov, 1937).

But there was still a silver lining: despite all of the above, the technical training at the Naval Academy was considered quite good. Unfortunately, the theoretical training was not backed up by practical experience. As a result, a Naval Academy graduate, in the words of I.S. Isakov, "is a propagandist, a theoretician, anything but a sailor; he's afraid of the weather, gets seasick, and he's prone to accidents that cause the ship to run aground in calm waters, in broad daylight."

So it turns out that a young officer joins the navy, well-versed in technical matters but poorly trained in tactics and seamanship. If such an officer were assigned to a well-coordinated and professional ship crew intensively engaged in combat training, his lack of this knowledge wouldn't be a major problem: he would have been trained and taught everything on the spot.

Instead, the young officer finds himself on a ship with an officer shortage. His commanders haven't been in their positions long and are not entirely competent (often downright incompetent), so they have little to teach him. The recent Naval Academy graduate has to work hard to compensate for the officer shortage, despite the fact that his own command and those under his command are also short of junior commanders. Then, at some point, he discovers to his horror that the few petty officers or squad leaders he does have aren't fully up to the job. The young officer turns to his senior comrades, but they only shrug their shoulders: the navy is chronically short of junior commanders, and those who are eventually nipped in the bud, despite having the necessary training, are often lazy and prone to disciplinary violations.

As a result, in order to somehow organize the service, a young officer has to take on not only the duties of officers absent from the ship, but also some of the duties of his junior commanders, who simply do not know how and are not able to perform them.

But let's say we come across a smart, proactive young officer who's passionate about his cause. He works hard, but still manages to get his department into a more or less acceptable shape. And, of course, when he receives orders to send sailors to junior commanders' courses, he "sheds the ballast," sending the most negligent ones there. Because what's most important to him isn't the uncertain future of the Soviet Navy, but rather bringing his own department into decent shape. For which, by the way, his superiors will hold him accountable. No, if the sailors he sent had returned to his ship upon completion of their training, things would be quite different. But that's not the case: on the contrary, the officer knows that he'll likely never see the sailors he sent to the courses again.

But then our enterprising and talented officer is noticed by his superiors and promoted to a higher position. But what does he need—a higher position? He hasn't yet studied the ship, and in his now former command, he only knows the bare essentials, the very basics without which the ship won't sail at all. But our officer is already the ship's senior assistant. The entire crew now reports to him, and he is responsible for everything—safety, service organization, and combat training. Even though he himself has only the vaguest understanding of many of the issues for which he is now responsible.

But, beyond his own inadequacy for the job, he faces the same problems: a shortage of officers and junior commanders, many of whom are new and haven't yet fully mastered the equipment and duties entrusted to them. Some don't even want to learn anything because they're lazy and undisciplined, but there's no one to replace them anyway.

In general, the problems are the same, only the scale has grown significantly. While an officer commanded his own warship, he could compensate for his subordinates' incompetence through direct intervention, performing tasks for them, teaching them by example, and then holding them accountable for what he taught and demonstrated personally. But in ship management, such a trick won't work; there's not enough time to personally understand all the nuances of each warship's operations and then train his subordinates. Authority must be delegated to those who, like the officer himself, are new, have only a limited understanding of their department, and rely on the hope that they'll figure it out somehow.

And so the newly minted first mate flounders for a year and a half, maybe two. He has no time for tactical intricacies, because as soon as he manages to "get a handle" on some combat unit, the officer commanding it soon gets promoted to another ship, and he's assigned a young and green one, and the whole thing starts all over again...

But somehow our first mate manages to steer the ship here—for better or worse, the ship is ready for a voyage and battle. At least in terms of reaching the naval range without breaking down or ramming anyone along the way. And considering the crew the first mate started with and the constant turnover, even this is an achievement. But it turns out that the crew has barely mastered the most basic, elementary tasks, and our first mate is already being appointed commander of the ship.

And if only the ship where he served as first mate was gone, he's gone! They're giving him the latest destroyer or submarine.


And it's good if he's in the same fleet where he served, but that's far from always the case. The ship's design is unfamiliar to him because it's brand new and has the same components, and our officer wasn't taught this at the Naval Naval School. And the ship is new, of course, but the problems... The problems are old. Young officers, some of whom have just graduated from the Naval Naval School or have not yet learned the ropes of the navy, a shortage of command personnel at all levels, incomplete service qualifications among some of these same personnel, high turnover, and so on and so forth.

And the commander is once again forced to devote 24/7 time to personally learning the ship, somehow assembling and training the crew to perform simple, fundamental tasks. The cadets' dreams of distant seas remain just that, because the ship doesn't sail beyond the training ground—there's no navigator, and they're not promising to hire one until next year, and even that's uncertain.

And so it turns out that our commander, as a cadet, made his last and only deployment beyond the Baltic, and of all his naval skills, the only one he's developed is the ability to "put out fires"—keeping the ship ready to handle the simplest tactical tasks amidst officer shortages and constant turnover. But he's already being promoted to brigade commander...

Given the explosive growth of our navy in the 30s, we were forced to create hierarchical chains in which officers at every (!) level of command weren't fully qualified for their positions. There was, of course, an alternative: we could have "capsulated" the naval forces and gradually "grew" them, then moved on to a slow and gradual expansion. But how long would that have taken?

For example, Vl. Semenov, a renowned Russian naval officer who served in the Russo-Japanese War, first in the 1st and then in the 2nd Pacific Squadrons, graduated as a midshipman in September 1887. He participated in numerous long-distance campaigns and distinguished himself during the capture of the Taku forts. But he only received the rank of senior assistant commander on January 1, 1904, after 16 years of service!


Of course, by this point, his experience as a sailor was decidedly incomparable and immeasurably superior to any first mate of the Red Navy. But the USSR didn't have many decades to gradually and "properly" develop its navy. The threats to the young Soviet state were completely real, and a strong navy, at least numerically, was an important factor in high-level politics.

Let's return to the training of Soviet Navy officers. All of the above are objective challenges of a growing fleet, but unfortunately, there were also subjective ones, which we created ourselves. People's Commissar of the Navy N. G. Kuznetsov specifically noted that, when promoting commanders, priority was unfortunately given not to their personal qualities, professionalism, and leadership abilities, but to their background, and, of course, the absence of damaging connections.

N. G. Kuznetsov, having become People's Commissar of the Navy in April 1939, tried to combat this practice as much as he could and as far as he could. But, of course, firstly, not everything was within his control, and secondly, his struggle began too late. On the other hand, oddly enough, the practice of promoting commanders "by origin" had one subtle and rather vague, but nonetheless advantage.

Talented officers with "nuances" in their biographies whose promotions were delayed were given the opportunity to better acclimate to their current positions and acquire a higher level of professionalism upon moving up. That is, of course, if such a move ever took place.

Let us now look at the exercises of the Baltic Fleet in the 30s.

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  1. -23
    1 September 2026 04: 53
    Stalin, with his repressions, destroyed many talented commanders not only of the navy, but of all branches of the military.
    1. + 18
      1 September 2026 05: 45
      What does Stalin have to do with this? :)))
      1. +9
        1 September 2026 06: 15
        Well, how could it be? Everyone knows about it... bully
      2. +6
        1 September 2026 09: 50
        In the previous article, I described three problems that created a “perfect storm” in the Soviet Navy’s training system in the 30s.

        The fourth aspect of the personnel situation in the navy.
        https://flot.com/history/events/thirteeth.htm
        At a meeting of the Main Military Council of the People's Commissariat of the Navy on December 16, 1938, a report was heard from the young commander of the Pacific Fleet, Flag Officer 2nd Rank N.G. Kuznetsov, who had replaced Grigory Petrovich Kireyev. He reported: "In the Pacific Fleet, 85 percent of the command staff, including ship commanders, was replaced in 1938."
      3. -9
        1 September 2026 12: 29
        Oh yeah, sorry, the "enemies of the people" went to prisons and camps themselves. They even shot each other.
        1. + 20
          1 September 2026 12: 34
          Oh, right, excuse me, but before the 1937 repressions, we had an excellent navy, staffed with well-trained officers. Then evil Stalin came and ruined everything. laughing
          1. -5
            1 September 2026 12: 39
            Oh, come on, Joseph Vissarionovich was a kind-hearted man. He simply thought there was no other way. I agree when he executed Zinoviev and Kamenev, Kedrov, Tukhachevsky, and other "associates." But the geneticist Vavilov and the engineer Langemak—they didn't make a revolution.
            1. + 11
              1 September 2026 13: 16
              Quote: fiberboard
              Oh, come on, Joseph Vissarionovich was a man with the kindest soul.

              I'm glad we reached a consensus:)))))
            2. +3
              2 September 2026 07: 09
              Quote: fiberboard
              Oh, come on, Joseph Vissarionovich was a kind-hearted man. He simply thought there was no other way. I agree when he executed Zinoviev and Kamenev, Kedrov, Tukhachevsky, and other "associates." But the geneticist Vavilov and the engineer Langemak—they didn't make a revolution.

              Or perhaps you could point out whom Joseph Vissarionovich personally executed? Or whose executions he personally signed? I simply don't know of any. It's long been known that the cornfielder personally sent people to their deaths in droves, but Stalin is to blame for everything. It's like they say in the West now, "If there's hail somewhere, it's Putin's fault." The same goes for Stalin. Everything good happened despite Stalin, and everything bad happened because of him.
              1. -5
                2 September 2026 14: 30
                Read Viktor Astafyev's book "Cursed and Killed." It's a very good and truthful book.
      4. +3
        2 September 2026 21: 17
        He reached here too. How restless.
      5. 0
        10 September 2026 23: 07
        Despite the fact that, despite such a shortage of personnel, the navy was "purged" as if naval officers grew on trees in the USSR. In fact, twice. The first time, in the early 30s, they removed almost all the Tsarist officers. Then, in 36-38, for some reason, they began to put their own, Soviet, personnel up against the wall.
    2. +2
      1 September 2026 06: 12
      Is it possible to list the talented people by name? Indicating their talent...
      1. man
        -2
        1 September 2026 08: 55
        Quote: faiver
        Is it possible to list the talented people by name? With indication of talent...

        Do you want meters or kilograms? smile
        1. +2
          1 September 2026 12: 16
          Do you want meters or kilograms?
          - you can use parrots... hi
      2. -3
        2 September 2026 03: 48
        Quote: faiver
        Is it possible to list the talented people by name? Indicating their talent...

        Take all the outstanding aircraft designers and list those who were not repressed under Stalin.
        1. +6
          2 September 2026 05: 25
          Mikoyan, Gurevich, Ilyushin, Grigoryan, Mil, Kamov, Lavochkin, is that enough?
          1. -4
            2 September 2026 09: 20
            Quote: Traveler 63
            Mikoyan, Gurevich, Ilyushin, Grigoryan, Mil, Kamov, Lavochkin, is that enough?

            Tupolev, Korolev, Bartini, Polikarpov, Petlyakov, Glushko. The designers subjected to repression made a more significant contribution to Soviet aviation than those who were not. Furthermore, the rise of Mil, Mikoyan, and Gurevich came at a time when the authorities were wary of repressing the designers, having experienced the bitter defeats of Soviet aircraft in China and Spain.
            1. -5
              2 September 2026 14: 33
              I completely agree with you. The Americans turned out to be much stupider than Stalin and his ilk. After all, how much more productive would American designers and engineers have been if Alcapone's guys had been constantly by their side, periodically shooting and beating up the "engineering elite."
              1. -2
                2 September 2026 20: 48
                Quote: fiberboard
                The Americans turned out to be much stupider than Stalin and his gang. After all, how much more productive would American designers and engineers have been if Alcapone's men had been constantly by their side, periodically shooting and beating up the "engineering elite."

                Before Stalin's purges, the I-15 and R-5 fought brilliantly against Japanese aircraft in China. The 1937 purges and the Industrial Party trial slowed the development of aviation in the USSR. In 1039, Japanese aircraft began demonstrating technical superiority over Soviet aircraft both in China and at Khalkhin Gol. Due to Stalin's desire to repress Polikarpov and replace him with young protégés, the USSR Air Force had the crude Yak fighter instead of a proper I-185 fighter.
                1. 0
                  3 September 2026 03: 48
                  The I-180 and I-185 didn't have an engine. By the time one appeared, the La-5 FN had already arrived. But the fact that the Ar-2 was replaced by the Pe-2, which was difficult to manufacture and fly, and the Su-2 production was shut down—that's certainly the result of intrigue.
    3. +3
      1 September 2026 07: 30
      Quote: fiberboard
      Stalin and his repressions destroyed many talented commanders.


      Could you elaborate, listing the talented commanders and their talents? I'm kind of lost looking for talent. Regarding the navy, the most important person in the fleet was the People's Commissar of the USSR Navy, M.P. Frinovsky. There's no denying he was a talented naval commander.
      1. + 10
        1 September 2026 10: 12
        If we apply it to the Navy, then the most important person in the fleet was the People's Commissar of the USSR Navy, M.P. Frinovsky.

        Before Frinovsky, the navy's top political officer was Smirnov, a land-based political officer. He had the same success. Before him, there was political officer Zof, who died suddenly in 1937. After Zof, there was Muklevich, who died suddenly in 1938. He was a non-commissioned officer in the navy. Next came Orlov, who served on the cruiser Bogatyr and died suddenly in 1938. And after him came Smirnov and Frinovsky. And who appointed Frinovsky and Smirnov to lead the navy? They didn't get there by lottery, did they?
      2. +4
        1 September 2026 11: 07
        Quote from kromer
        I'm kind of lost looking for talent.

        for example, Mikhail Vladimirovich Viktorov (born December 24, 1893 [January 5, 1894], Yaroslavl, Russian Empire – August 1, 1938) – Russian officer, participant in WWI, commander of the Baltic, Black Sea, Pacific fleets, and Naval Forces.

        Lev Mtkhailovich Galler - Russian officer, first mate of the famous "Glory in Moonsund," Deputy Chief of the Red Army Naval Forces. From January 1938, he became Chief of the General Naval Staff.
        and so on and so forth..destroyed.

        At the same time, the incompetent cowards, the Oktyabrsky vice-admirals who fled Sevastopol in 1942, prospered...
        1. +1
          1 September 2026 11: 34
          Quote: Olgovich
          Mikhail Vladimirovich Viktorov

          Quote: Olgovich
          Galler Lev Mikhailovich


          The officers are good, but what talent have they shown?

          Quote: Olgovich
          starlet famous "Glory"


          What other first mate? Senior officer.
          1. +1
            2 September 2026 09: 06
            Quote from kromer
            And what did you show talent in?

            How do you measure talent?
    4. +7
      1 September 2026 09: 01
      Quote: fiberboard
      Stalin and his repressions destroyed many talented commanders.

      In 1937, the Soviet Union had fewer than 50 military command schools; by 1941, their number had already increased to over 200. That's a fourfold increase in just three years! Stalin is certainly "to blame" for this! But the main problem is that military schools are graduating lieutenants, not generals and marshals. There's no continuity between generations!
    5. +1
      1 September 2026 22: 46
      .. yeah, and the denunciations (against each other) were also written by Stalin, or the red committees themselves (and other commissars) eagerly settled scores... and yes, Tukhachevsky and Co. are holy martyrs and did not prepare any revolution... and lastly... what kind of "talented" people were destroyed... the alcoholic Blucher or the mini-Napoleon Tukhachevsky... and there was also Dubenko and... and up to... those who surfaced during the October "revolution" (the same one happened recently in 404).. generally speaking, there is no point in blaming the mirror...
      1. +6
        2 September 2026 13: 56
        ko-si-ko-sa-po-ka-ro-sa...
        So the scythe mowed down everyone, left and right. Both outright thugs from the Civil War and perfectly honest and intelligent people fell victim to it. This is history, from which we simply must learn lessons and not repeat its mistakes.
  2. +6
    1 September 2026 06: 01
    And what was the situation in the Kriegsmarine during the same period?
    1. + 13
      1 September 2026 06: 18
      Quote: Mamin-Sibiryak
      And what was the situation in the Kriegsmarine during the same period?

      I haven't looked into this issue, but I think that's how it went. They faced similar challenges, but they managed to maintain personnel continuity. Like in the army, they immediately maximized officer production within the "small fleet" left to them by Versailles. That is, by the time the fleet expanded, they had a large reserve of officers.
      1. +6
        1 September 2026 13: 53
        According to the Germans themselves, submarine training was truly phenomenal! They became commanders in just two years. And successful ones at that. And they were on the Sevens, not our little ones. But there was practice, practice, and practice. And the crews were trained just like the Prussian officers knew how to do.
      2. -7
        1 September 2026 19: 45
        Yeah, and what did these officers command?
        Initial conditions: after Versailles, the Germans were able to retain "the best of the best," while keeping "the worst of the best" in immediate reserve. The remnants of the fleet they were left with included every type of ship except submarines. An ideal school for commanders! Military academies were taught by officers with actual combat experience from World War I. "On shore," where age was no barrier, the headquarters were again staffed by competent professionals from World War I.
        We're watching.
        The capture of Norway. Destroyers in Narvik. The unit commander failed to properly organize patrol duty, and his subordinates, the ship commanders, didn't ask stupid questions. The result: undetected British destroyers. Then there's the supply. They had a refuelling vessel with one fuel transfer station. The second, with two stations, sent unarmed and unescorted, was intercepted by a Norwegian minesweeper with a 37mm cannon, I think. It's war, the masks are off, is it difficult to re-arm the ship or send anything armed with it?
        The loss of the Blucher. This was a truly epic failure on the part of the staff. They took a brand new ship, with all its flaws and a poorly trained crew, loaded it to the masthead with troops and its explosive and flammable cargo, and sent it to storm the capital!
        The Battle of the La Plata Estuary. The Germans could easily have sunk the Exeter with just a few shells, then turned their attention to the light cruisers. After the battle: one could have estimated the condition of the light cruisers (actual post-battle status: no torpedoes, one had a quarter of its ammunition, the other a quarter of its artillery). The British battlecruisers were the mortal threat, but they were few in number and spread thinly across the globe, from the mother country to Singapore. Where was the closest one, what was its condition, and how soon could it arrive? What was intelligence looking for? There were options other than self-sinking and suicide.
        Raiding in the North Atlantic. Circles around the Altmark.
        "New Year's Fight." Again, a bunch of mistakes.
        1. +1
          2 September 2026 04: 09
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The deadly threat is the British battlecruisers, but they are few in number and spread thinly across the globe,

          British intelligence worked well. They promptly cut off Spee's crew's access to fuel and repairs in the port of Montevideo. Furthermore, Captain Spee was misinformed that a powerful British squadron awaited him upon leaving Montevideo. The Germans simply decided not to sacrifice their sailors, as they were unable to inflict significant losses on the British. In 1939, breaking through from the Atlantic to German ports past the French and British fleets was problematic from the Southern Hemisphere. It was only after Spee's sinking that it became known that the British battleships were poorly positioned to intercept him, and the Germans had a high chance of breaking through to Germany by sinking three British ships if they attempted to stop him. The British fought Spee with calculation and courage. The Germans were unable to inflict serious damage on Exeter for a long time and only began firing on the light cruisers when they had already closed in on Spee and inflicted damage, forcing the German ship to return to port for repairs. During the battles for Norway, the British had a good chance of holding on to northern Norway and preventing Norway from leaving the war. There, the Germans performed more successfully and professionally than the British and French.
          1. +1
            2 September 2026 08: 53
            British intelligence did a good job.

            I completely agree with you, the British outplayed their diplomacy in Montevideo. But their own intelligence service should, at a minimum, track the movements of large ships, and at most, monitor their technical condition. This should be handled by the "high command," that is, the officers on shore. The question is their professionalism. And "snagging" a ship across the Atlantic is still a staff job, like "we know better from above." It seems like the Spee was written off at the top immediately after the battle. Based on the battle itself. There was an episode where they were targeting one British ship but actually aimed at another.
            Regarding Norway. I won't argue about the "boots"—the results speak for themselves: the Germans accomplished their mission. But the naval losses could have been fewer. The saddest thing for the Germans is that their naval complement at the start of the war wasn't their "starting capital" but "all we had," and every ship had to be protected.
        2. +9
          2 September 2026 07: 59
          Quote: Not the fighter
          Yeah, and what did these officers command?

          Approximately 20 million tons of Allied tonnage sunk during the Battle of the Atlantic.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The capture of Norway. Destroyers in Narvik. The unit commander failed to properly organize patrol duty, and his subordinates, the ship commanders, didn't ask stupid questions.

          Let's start with that. The capture of Norway. A brilliant and successful naval operation in the face of a far superior Russian Navy. And as for patrol duty... Could you please clarify how you propose organizing it? Given the lack of fuel on the destroyers, as I recall.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The second, with two posts, which was sent without weapons and without an escort, was intercepted by a Norwegian minesweeper with a 37 mm cannon, it seems.

          I don't remember the story, but I'll note that such vessels are best protected by their lack of resemblance to warships. A destroyer and its escort can be detected and sunk, but no one would bother inspecting a transport. So there's some logic to it.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The loss of the Blucher. This was a truly epic failure on the part of the staff. They took a brand new ship, with all its flaws and a poorly trained crew, loaded it to the masthead with troops and its explosive and flammable cargo, and sent it to storm the capital!

          Was there a choice? They used everything they had. The result was excellent – ​​Norway was captured. Germany gained a lot from this, including the opportunity to operate against convoys to the USSR in the future.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The Battle of the La Plata Estuary. The Germans could have easily sunk the Exeter.

          That's right. Langsdorf, alas, fought bravely only until his concussion.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          Where is the nearest one, what is its condition, how soon can it arrive?

          The Germans thought they were being guarded by a Renown or a Repulse, I don't remember exactly, i.e. it was already at La Plata.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          There were options other than self-drowning and suicide.

          Certainly.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          Raiding in the North Atlantic.

          Exactly. Bismarck actually fired better than the British battleships. Scharnhorst hits Glories with her third salvo from 24 kilometers. The Germans have very poor officers, very poor indeed.
        3. +7
          2 September 2026 07: 59
          Quote: Not the fighter
          Yeah, and what did these officers command?

          Approximately 20 million tons of Allied tonnage sunk during the Battle of the Atlantic.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The capture of Norway. Destroyers in Narvik. The unit commander failed to properly organize patrol duty, and his subordinates, the ship commanders, didn't ask stupid questions.

          Let's start with that. The capture of Norway. A brilliant and successful naval operation in the face of a far superior Russian Navy. And as for patrol duty... Could you please clarify how you propose organizing it? Given the lack of fuel on the destroyers, as I recall.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The second, with two posts, which was sent without weapons and without an escort, was intercepted by a Norwegian minesweeper with a 37 mm cannon, it seems.

          I don't remember the story, but I'll note that such vessels are best protected by their lack of resemblance to warships. A destroyer and its escort can be detected and sunk, but no one would bother inspecting a transport. So there's some logic to it.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The loss of the Blucher. This was a truly epic failure on the part of the staff. They took a brand new ship, with all its flaws and a poorly trained crew, loaded it to the masthead with troops and its explosive and flammable cargo, and sent it to storm the capital!

          Was there a choice? They used everything they had. The result was excellent – ​​Norway was captured. Germany gained a lot from this, including the opportunity to operate against convoys to the USSR in the future.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The Battle of the La Plata Estuary. The Germans could have easily sunk the Exeter.

          That's right. Langsdorf, alas, fought bravely only until his concussion.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          Where is the nearest one, what is its condition, how soon can it arrive?

          The Germans thought they were being guarded by a Renown or a Repulse, I don't remember exactly, i.e. it was already at La Plata.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          There were options other than self-drowning and suicide.

          Certainly.
          Quote: Not the fighter
          Raiding in the North Atlantic.

          Exactly. Bismarck actually fired better than the British battleships. Scharnhorst hits Glories with her third salvo from 24 kilometers. The Germans have very poor officers, very poor indeed.
        4. +7
          2 September 2026 18: 21
          The Germans were fatally unlucky in some places, and in others you couldn't ask the perpetrator why he acted the way he did...
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The commander of the unit was unable to properly organize patrol duty, and his subordinates, the ship commanders, did not ask stupid questions.

          Visibility dropped to 2 cable lengths. Bonte planned to dispatch a destroyer to relieve the Roeder when weather conditions improved.

          Quote: Not the fighter
          They had a tanker with one fuel transfer station.

          There were actually two posts on "Jan Willem".

          Quote: Not the fighter
          The second, with two posts, which was sent without weapons and without an escort, was intercepted by a Norwegian minesweeper with a 37 mm cannon, it seems.

          Kattegat fell behind the team due to technical problems. They tried to catch up, but weren't able to...

          Quote: Not the fighter
          This is a total epic fail on the part of the headquarters.

          It was pure luck: if it weren't for the initiative of Colonel Birger Eriksen, who didn't wait for the go-ahead from headquarters, the Germans would have calmly reached Oslo.
          The most interesting thing is that after the war, Eriksen was put on trial, where, among other things, he was accused of opening fire without orders and all sorts of...

          Quote: Not the fighter
          There were options other than self-drowning and suicide.

          Considering that the available fuel remained in the service tanks and was sufficient for 20 hours of cruising? And the pumps and separator were only repaired in Montevideo.

          Quote: Not the fighter
          "New Year's fight".

          The name of the defect is Stange... :)
        5. +3
          2 September 2026 18: 21
          The Germans were fatally unlucky in some places, and in others you couldn't ask the perpetrator why he acted the way he did...
          Quote: Not the fighter
          The commander of the unit was unable to properly organize patrol duty, and his subordinates, the ship commanders, did not ask stupid questions.

          Visibility dropped to 2 cable lengths. Bonte planned to dispatch a destroyer to relieve the Roeder when weather conditions improved.

          Quote: Not the fighter
          They had a tanker with one fuel transfer station.

          There were actually two posts on "Jan Willem".

          Quote: Not the fighter
          The second, with two posts, which was sent without weapons and without an escort, was intercepted by a Norwegian minesweeper with a 37 mm cannon, it seems.

          Kattegat fell behind the team due to technical problems. They tried to catch up, but weren't able to...

          Quote: Not the fighter
          This is a total epic fail on the part of the headquarters.

          It was pure luck: if it weren't for the initiative of Colonel Birger Eriksen, who didn't wait for the go-ahead from headquarters, the Germans would have calmly reached Oslo.
          The most interesting thing is that after the war, Eriksen was put on trial, where, among other things, he was accused of opening fire without orders and all sorts of...

          Quote: Not the fighter
          There were options other than self-drowning and suicide.

          Considering that the available fuel remained in the service tanks and was sufficient for 20 hours of cruising? And the pumps and separator were only repaired in Montevideo.

          Quote: Not the fighter
          "New Year's fight".

          The name of the defect is Stange... :)
    2. + 15
      1 September 2026 08: 35
      Quote: Mamin-Sibiryak
      And what was the situation in the Kriegsmarine during the same period?
      If you look only at the training of crews, and leave the ships alone, things were much better than for the great naval powers combined. The whole point is that The German Navy treated every ordinary sailor as a potential future officerAnd accordingly, his training was designed so that after a certain period of service, an ordinary sailor would acquire the skills of a highly qualified specialist, and eventually, an officer...

      The purpose of these measures was to create a personnel reserve capable of quickly increasing the fleet's size in the event of the lifting of the Versailles prohibitions. And the most interesting thing about this is that Candidates for the positions of sailors were selected through a competition, which consisted of approximately eight people per position (like going to university)! And this is understandable, since regular meals, wages (even if small), and professional training represented a very attractive alternative to civilian unemployment. And the level of training of the Reichsmarine's rank and file is perfectly understandable...
      P.S. Everything written refers to the times of the Weimar Republic, and I think that the same selection of personnel was preserved in the Kriegsmarine...
      1. + 12
        1 September 2026 11: 38
        Quote: Luminman
        The point is that the German Navy viewed every enlisted sailor as a potential future officer. Consequently, their training was designed so that after a certain period of service, the average sailor would first acquire the skills of a highly qualified specialist, and eventually, an officer...

        Von Seeckt's principle was "an army of commanders." The Reichswehr as a whole was built not as a combat army, but as a large training ground for officer and non-commissioned officer cadres, the "skeleton" of Germany's future mass army.
    3. + 14
      1 September 2026 10: 35
      Quote: Mamin-Sibiryak
      And what was the situation in the Kriegsmarine during the same period?

      Unfortunately, I can’t write anything about the navy, but if we take the Wehrmacht as an example.
      At the time of the attack on the Soviet Union, all regimental commanders were participants in the First World War, and division commanders were at least former deputy regimental commanders during the First World War.
      There were exceptions in the composition of the SS and Luftwaffe units, but overall it was also an order of magnitude better than ours.
      If I'm wrong, please correct me.
      P.S. The example of Kuznetsov's career is textbook.
      1. +1
        1 September 2026 11: 07
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Quote: Mamin-Sibiryak
        And what was the situation in the Kriegsmarine during the same period?

        Unfortunately, I can’t write anything about the navy, but if we take the Wehrmacht as an example.
        At the time of the attack on the Soviet Union, all regimental commanders were participants in the First World War, and division commanders were at least former deputy regimental commanders during the First World War.
        There were exceptions in the composition of the SS and Luftwaffe units, but overall it was also an order of magnitude better than ours.
        If I'm wrong, please correct me.
        P.S. The example of Kuznetsov's career is textbook.

        Yeah, but the Tsarist navy with educated officers and admirals fought better?
        1. +9
          1 September 2026 11: 32
          Quote: Konnick
          Yeah, but the Tsarist navy with educated officers and admirals fought better?

          In WWI? Actually, yes.
          1. 0
            1 September 2026 11: 44
            Quote: Senior Sailor
            Quote: Konnick
            Yeah, but the Tsarist navy with educated officers and admirals fought better?

            In WWI? Actually, yes.

            Really? The one who locked himself in minefields, while the sailors lazed around in Kronstadt. And as for the Russian Navy...
            1. + 14
              1 September 2026 12: 29
              Quote: Konnick
              Yes?

              Yes. In the Baltic, there was active minelaying, which caused heavy losses to the Germans. Holding Moonzund and supporting the army's coastal flank, which the Germans were unable to do. In the Black Sea Fleet, there was naval dominance, the blockade of Zunguldak, which meant the Turks' locomotives were stopped and they had to haul coal from Germany, support for the army's flank (Rostislav almost drove into the Turkish trenches), large-scale landings (for a moment, the only example of successful amphibious operations in WWII), and so on and so forth.
              Nikolay, what sources did you use to study the history of WWI?
              1. +1
                1 September 2026 13: 01
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                The Black Sea Fleet generally has dominance at sea

                If it were domination, Yudenich would have been in Constantinople in 1916. The Turks, those warriors, could not be defeated...
                There were only 200 Turks on the Caucasus Front, while the main Turkish forces at Gallipoli numbered half a million. Our army took three small towns and that was it.
                1. +7
                  1 September 2026 13: 18
                  Quote: Konnick
                  If there had been domination, Yudenich would have been in Constantinople in 1916.

                  really?
                  Quote: Konnick
                  There were only 200 Turks on the Caucasus Front, while the main Turkish forces at Gallipoli numbered half a million. Our army took three small towns and that was it.

                  What does the navy have to do with this? :)))) By the way, what is the size of our Caucasian army? Not 170 thousand people, by any chance?
                  1. -2
                    1 September 2026 13: 20
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Quote: Konnick
                    If there had been domination, Yudenich would have been in Constantinople in 1916.

                    really?
                    Quote: Konnick
                    There were only 200 Turks on the Caucasus Front, while the main Turkish forces at Gallipoli numbered half a million. Our army took three small towns and that was it.

                    What does the navy have to do with this? :)))) By the way, what is the size of our Caucasian army? Not 170 thousand people, by any chance?

                    Well, they would have gone along a narrow front along the Black Sea to Constantinople along the coast under the cover of Rostislav... but for some reason they didn't go further than Trebizond.
                    1. +9
                      1 September 2026 13: 57
                      Well, to make these claims against the Russians... The Allies at the Dardanelles will not let me lie. The Turks were not whipping boys.
                    2. +8
                      1 September 2026 14: 13
                      Quote: Konnick
                      Well, they would have gone along a narrow front along the Black Sea to Constantinople along the coast under the cover of Rostislav.

                      So they marched as far as the army could. And it managed to advance 250 kilometers into Turkey.
                      Quote: Konnick
                      but for some reason we didn't go further than Trebizond

                      In your opinion, is this a question for the navy?
                2. +4
                  1 September 2026 21: 19
                  Why in 1916?
                  No need to rush, no need to rush...
                  In 1918 - yes, as easy as pie!
                  Throughout the winter of 1916/1917, the Foreign Ministry conducted a lively correspondence with the Allies—they were seriously negotiating the division and delimitation of the post-war map. The Central Powers had essentially lost WWI back in 1914. They had been counting on a blitzkrieg, but it hadn't worked—three years of agony followed. According to the agreements reached in early 1917, the main beneficiary was to be the Russian Empire!
                  Britain remained, as they say, "with its own position", plus some strengthening of its position in the Middle East.
                  France got back its Alsace-Lorraine...
                  But Russia planned to advance south and west, at the expense of Turkey and Austria-Hungary—meaning the inevitable defeat of the latter, precisely by the force of our arms. An advance into the Balkans and Istanbul was predetermined and agreed upon.
                  The possibility of such a strengthening of the Russian Empire, of course, was not at all desirable for the Allies. If we apply logic, it becomes clear that the revolution was not financed by German money.
                  1. +1
                    2 September 2026 09: 50
                    Quote: Dmitry24
                    But Russia was going to advance to the south and west, at the expense of

                    Read the memoirs of Viktor Chernov, a leader of the Right Socialist Revolutionaries of Russia. In the spring of 1914, he discussed plans for the creation of a Polish state and the dismemberment of Russia with Iodko, a representative of the Polish socialists (Pilsudovites). By the spring of 1914, Great Britain and France had already made detailed plans to use at least Polish separatists to dismember Russia during World War I.
                    1. 0
                      2 September 2026 11: 24
                      Back at the turn of the century, Kuropatkin had something like, "We've already screwed up Finland and Poland, and to hell with them - they're ungrateful and ineducable anyway..."
                      In the West, for us, a wall like Pink Floyd has been built since Ivan the Terrible...
                      To the south there is also a wall, where British interests coincide with the Ottoman ones...
                      Now, the same thing has happened - they turned the hut so that its butt end faces the window to Europe.
                      Politics is...
                      It may be true, but why the hell do you need to shift the steering wheel so abruptly up there?
                      Passengers with suitcases are once again being blown overboard by the force of energy.
              2. 0
                1 September 2026 13: 06
                Everything you've mentioned is nothing more than vanity before defeat. In the Baltic, we were fairly firmly ensconced in the Gulf of Finland, and in the Black Sea, we conducted several spectacular (but ineffective!) operations that, due to their small scale and distance from the Bosphorus, could not have led to Turkey's defeat, nor to even a local victory for us. The empty talk surrounding the Black Sea Fleet's actions in World War I is the fuel for the subsequent century-long ceremonial pageantry. The regurgitation was Admiral Oktyabrsky's defensive strategy, which subordinated warships (though they were only loosely considered a fleet as a unified force) to the tasks of transporting troops and cargo, interspersed with pointless raiding operations to shell enemy-held coastlines. And the losses of ships and personnel led to the cessation of all naval operations, except for parades.
                1. +8
                  1 September 2026 13: 15
                  Quote: Victor Leningradets
                  Everything you have listed is nothing more than vanity before defeat.

                  Sorry, but you're completely wrong here. Not at all. It was our fleet that supported the ground forces' flank, not the Germans', in the Baltic—and that was a very significant contribution the fleet could and did make. At the World Cup, it wasn't the spectacular operations that were carried out, but rather the effective ones, which had a significant impact on the Turkish ground forces.
                  Quote: Victor Leningradets
                  which, due to their small scale and distance from the Bosphorus, could not lead to the defeat of Turkey

                  The Navy cannot defeat Turkey on its own in principle. It has never had such capabilities.
                  1. 0
                    1 September 2026 13: 49
                    In the Baltic, we encountered the German fleet in earnest only once, in October 1917. As a result, we shamefully fled and abandoned the region's defenses, and the vaunted Sevastopols never emerged from Helsinki. The Germans carried out the operation according to their plan.
                    My hair stands on end at the prospect of something like this two years earlier, along with a general offensive on our front.
                    There were two tasks in the Black Sea:
                    1) Landing troops to capture Constantinople and the straits, which would REALLY lead to the defeat of Turkey and the victory of Russia.
                    2) Neutralization of the actions of enemy fleets.
                    Both objectives were not achieved, and instead, a powerful propaganda campaign was launched promoting private landings on the coast and our fleet's maneuvers around Goeben. And so, the paycheck arrived: Goeben in Sevastopol, both Empresses at the bottom, and the Emperor in enemy hands. Oh, and the Turks are in the Caucasus.
                    1. +9
                      1 September 2026 14: 21
                      Quote: Victor Leningradets
                      In the Baltic we met the German fleet in earnest only once, in October 1917.

                      When there was no longer any fleet as such, everything fell apart, including the fleet
                      Quote: Victor Leningradets
                      As a result, we fled shamefully and abandoned the defense of the region, and the vaunted Sevastopols never crawled out of Helsinki.

                      The German High Seas Fleet is a different story - it was worth ordering it to attack the English, it shamefully started a revolution... Is that how it works? And what the Germans did at sea before that,
                      Quote: Victor Leningradets
                      nothing more than vanity before defeat

                      Is that so? Or not, after all?
                      Quote: Victor Leningradets
                      There were two tasks in the Black Sea:
                      1) Landing troops to capture Constantinople and the straits, which would REALLY lead to the defeat of Turkey and the victory of Russia.

                      The Black Sea Fleet had no such mission. Because that mission was supposed to be accomplished in the event of a war with Turkey, not while we were fighting Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey to boot.
                      Simply put, we didn't have the army to take Istanbul. This has nothing to do with the navy.
                      Quote: Victor Leningradets
                      2) Neutralization of the actions of enemy fleets.

                      Which is exactly what was accomplished – we cut off the enemy's communications (Zunguldak), while Goeben sat in the Bosphorus like a mouse under a broom. The rare attempts by the Turks and Germans to crawl into the waters were futile, and we did everything we had to.
                      1. 0
                        1 September 2026 14: 57
                        I don't like empty squabbles where everyone thinks they're right. It's reminiscent of the arguments between the parties in a straightforward case.
                        During World War I, our Baltic Fleet had only one objective: defending the capital from the sea. Since the enemy posed no naval threat, the task seemed to be self-sustaining.
                        As for the naval bases of Reval and Helsinki, the enemy took them when he wanted.
                        The fact that the fleet had completely disintegrated by the fall of 1917 is thanks to the gold-plated command. The Bolsheviks essentially arrived ready for anything. And yes, in 1915, if the German General Staff had committed sufficient forces to defeat Russia with the participation of the High Seas Fleet, the Baltic Fleet would have been destroyed in the event of a battle during the German landings. Incidentally, what year did the mutiny on Gangut occur?
                        As for the Bosphorus Operation, it was the only one that made sense in the realities of the First World War. But historically, it didn't work out. Nicholas I was the first to waver, and then, historically, everything else followed.
                        Goeben, despite the terrible technical condition, repeatedly went on raiding operations (senseless and fearless at the same time).
                        It was during such an operation in the summer of 1917 that the sailors of the battleship Empress Catherine the Great mutinied. So Goeben wasn't exactly sitting idle.
                        And most importantly, the history of the Black Sea Fleet is a microcosm of the fate of Tsarist Russia, with its characteristic attitude toward the deceased: understanding and forgiveness. As R. Rozhdestvensky wrote:
                        There was no Glory - there was no Motherland,
                        The house was gone, but the memory lived on...
                        It is symbolic that the battleship Emperor Alexander III ended its days in Bizerte.
                      2. +6
                        1 September 2026 16: 06
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        I don't like empty fights

                        Well, I don't want to fight. You express your opinion, I express mine, but we certainly won't argue to the death over who's right.
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        During the First World War, our Baltic Fleet solved ONE task - the defense of the capital from the sea.

                        Actually, three. One of them—yes, the defense of St. Petersburg; the second—supporting the army's coastal flank; the third—causing mischief on the Germans' Baltic communications.
                        The fleet accomplished the first two tasks. It attempted the third as well, but very timidly, for which it was justifiably criticized. But even what it accomplished resulted in serious German losses (active minelaying).
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        The fact that the fleet had completely disintegrated by the autumn of 1917 is thanks to the gold-shouldered command.

                        The army too?:))))) And among the Germans, it is solely the officers who are to blame for the fact that the navy plunged into revolution?
                        Victor, the revolutionary situation didn't arise out of nowhere—neither in Germany nor in Russia. And the scale of the problem was far from being manageable by officers on the ground.
                        Moreover, the Baltic's main problem was that the fleet was idle in its bases—its crews were becoming disorganized. And who was keeping it from going to sea? That's right, the land forces, to whom the Baltic Fleet was subordinate.
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        And yes, in 1915, if the German General Staff had provided sufficient forces to defeat Russia with the participation of the High Seas Fleet, then in the event of a battle during the landing of German troops, the Baltic Fleet would have been destroyed.

                        You see, if our forces had deepened the Rizhsky Passage in time, and even just one Sevastopol had entered, the eight German dreadnoughts would have left Moonzund empty-handed in 1915. Actually, I'm not sure they would have entered if Slava had had proper gun elevation.
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        By the way, what year did the riot on Gangut happen?

                        In the 15th. The main reason is the ship's passivity:)))
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        Goeben, despite the terrible technical condition, repeatedly went on raiding operations (senseless and fearless at the same time).

                        And let him. He had no influence whatsoever.
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        As for the Bosphorus operation, it was the only one that made sense in the realities of the First World War.

                        It made sense during the First World War, before the First World War, and after the First World War. There were no opportunities.
                      3. -1
                        2 September 2026 09: 57
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        Nicholas I was the first to waver,

                        All Russo-Turkish wars in the 18th and 19th centuries ended with the Russian army destroyed by infectious diseases. This factor must be taken into account. These events are depicted in I. Turgenev's prose poem "In Memory of Yu. P. Vrevskaya."
                      4. +1
                        1 September 2026 21: 27
                        You are absolutely right - all of FOM's activities were vanity without any prospects after Paris held its ground.
                    2. +5
                      1 September 2026 15: 50
                      Quote: Victor Leningradets
                      The Germans carried out the operation according to their plan.

                      Victor, I'm sorry, but the fleets' actions were compared.
                      And if we're talking about that, the Germans achieved the same thing in WWII, but with far fewer forces. And in the Black Sea, they had nothing stronger than motorboats...
                      1. +2
                        1 September 2026 15: 57
                        Thank you Ivan!
                        I always think that Hitler's Nazism was a rare stroke of luck for us. Things could have been much worse if the Germans had launched the construction of a small fleet and submarine force in Romania and Bulgaria.
                        And it's not at all a question of the qualities of our newly appointed commanders and admirals. It's a question of blindly following the lessons of the Civil War, where we imagined Entente landings supported by dreadnoughts everywhere. But it all boiled down to mosquito fleet operations, which we were unable to counter.
                      2. +3
                        1 September 2026 16: 33
                        The problem is a blind adherence to the lessons of the Civil War, where we saw Entente landings supported by dreadnoughts everywhere. But it all boiled down to mosquito fleet operations, which we were unable to counter.


                        So, what did the admirals of France and Great Britain see?
                        The first fleet barely made a dent in the war when the ground army was being drained.
                        The second - Grandfleet, battered by economic crises, but full of "arrogance and conceit" - again proved unprepared to fight German mines and submarines, as well as German naval and Japanese carrier-based aircraft.
                      3. +2
                        1 September 2026 16: 27
                        And if we're talking about that, the Germans achieved the same thing in WWII, but with far fewer forces. And in the Black Sea, they had nothing stronger than motorboats...


                        There is no need to take into account the Romanian and Bulgarian fleets and air force?

                        Finland was on the TR side.
                        There was aviation and rapid action by the Wehrmacht.
                        The Baltic Fleet was faced with the "newly acquired" bases in the Baltics, the problems of the Red Army, and Finland.
                        In the Black Sea, everything was decided by aviation, mines, torpedoes and ground forces.
                      4. +6
                        1 September 2026 18: 01
                        Quote: hohol95
                        There is no need to take into account the Romanian and Bulgarian fleets and air force?

                        Tell me all the chilling details about these countries' "powerful" navies. Especially compared to WWI-era Turkey.
                        As for aviation, we had it too... or didn't we?
                      5. +2
                        1 September 2026 18: 13
                        Compared to the Turkish Navy in WWI, the fleets of Romania and Bulgaria were weaker, but they created problems for Soviet submariners.
                        The USSR may have had aviation, but the Luftwaffe had experience fighting French and British warships, while the Soviet heavy transport ships had no such experience at all. Plus, there were the usual problems with materiel, personnel training, and fuel supplies.
                        The fighter component of the Naval Air Force was unable to escort warships and convoys of ships over the entire distance of the passage.
                        The equipment was not suitable for this.
                      6. +6
                        1 September 2026 19: 40
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Compared to the Turkish Navy in WWI, the fleets of Romania and Bulgaria were weaker

                        However, in WWI we drove the Turks beyond the Bosphorus, while in WWII our fleet was forced to retreat to distant bases. Therefore, the comparison is definitely not in the Red Navy's favor.
                        It's probably worse now...
                      7. 0
                        1 September 2026 19: 55
                        After driving the Turkish fleet beyond the Bosphorus, the ground army had to save the Romanians from the Bulgarians and Germans.
                        The shelling of Zunguldak was less effective than sinking everything floating on which the Turks were trying to re-coal.
                        And no one thought of landing troops to destroy the structure in this coal region.
                        And then "soup with a cat" and the collapse of everything.
                        Sinking and sinking of ships and vessels.
                        Emigration of the bearers of "white bones and blue bloods".
                        The collapse of the shipbuilding and other industries.
                        And by 1941 things could have been much worse.
                        It could have been, but it was as it was.

                        Briefly - What could you personally propose as an "alternative" to the actions of the Black Sea Fleet during the Great Patriotic War?
                      8. +6
                        2 September 2026 08: 37
                        Quote: hohol95
                        After driving the Turkish fleet beyond the Bosphorus land army

                        We were talking about the fleet.
                        Incidentally, the lack of a landing force on the Bosphorus is also a complaint not against the navy, but against the army. Such an operation couldn't be carried out with landing companies, and headquarters never provided any troops.
                        Quote: hohol95
                        The shelling of Zunguldak was less effective than sinking everything floating on which the Turks were trying to re-coal.

                        Our ships did both. They even carried out airstrikes, even though the range of aircraft was much shorter back then than during WWII.
                        Yes, with the help of air transports and seaplanes, but they managed it, didn't they? Although Soviet aviation was undoubtedly two heads and shoulders above anything we could have had before 1917.
                        Quote: hohol95
                        And no one thought of landing troops to destroy the structure in this coal region.

                        See above. The fleet can only land forces that the army provides. And if the army doesn't provide them, then what claims can the fleet make?
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Flooding

                        And who, may I ask, gave the orders to sink?
                        If I remember correctly, it was definitely not Denikin and Wrangel.
                        And who ordered the execution of a man who refused to sink and saved the ships?
                        Quote: hohol95
                        And by 1941 things could have been much worse.

                        Things are always worse. There's no arguing that.
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Briefly - What are you personally

                        Sorry, but the respected author described the scale of the problems and the reasons why they arose very vividly and clearly.
                        And you are completely wrong to think that there was some kind of recipe to fix everything at once, starting to operate on June 22, 1941.
                        As the old joke about plumbing goes, the entire system needs to be replaced!
                      9. +1
                        2 September 2026 16: 26
                        And who, may I ask, gave the orders to sink?
                        If I remember correctly, it was definitely not Denikin and Wrangel.
                        And who ordered the execution of a man who refused to sink and saved the ships?

                        Much of what was not sunk went to the Red Navy?
                        Wrangel and Co. probably took away much more than was sunk.
                        And it wasn’t only this “company” that paid with ships and warships of the former Russian Imperial Navy.
                        There was also the North and the Far East.
                        And there their "companies" were in charge.

                        And you are completely wrong to think that there was some kind of recipe to fix everything at once, starting to operate on June 22, 1941.
                        As the old joke about plumbing goes, the entire system needs to be replaced!

                        And you are wrong to think that I think...
                        But there are some wishes, right?
                        Do not throw mines where there was no need to scatter them.
                        Send full-fledged detachments with minesweepers to the Romanian coast, rather than enter foreign waters with just leaders and destroyers.
                        And so on ...
                      10. +4
                        2 September 2026 17: 41
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Much of what was not sunk went to the Red Navy?

                        Almost everything is in the Baltics.
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Wrangel and Co. probably took away much more than was sunk.

                        But much less than what we ourselves later sold to Germany as scrap metal, instead of using it.
                        It is, of course, clear that the republic is in a difficult situation and needs at least some money, but they still haven’t earned much, and there were no training ships available at the right time.
                        Incidentally, what Wrangel took to Bizerte was also sold for scrap metal. And not without the Soviet government's involvement.
                        Although, at a minimum, the battleship, cruiser, six "Novikovs" and four submarines could have been returned and used, but...
                        Quote: hohol95
                        And you are wrong to think that I think...

                        Then - oh lol
                      11. 0
                        2 September 2026 18: 33
                        But much less than what we ourselves later sold to Germany as scrap metal, instead of using it.

                        Was it possible to use these ships and vessels?
                        Could they be restored to working order?
                      12. +1
                        3 September 2026 10: 06
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Was it possible to use these ships and vessels?
                        Could they be restored to working order?

                        And why not?
                        Take the Andreyevs, for example. They entered service in 1912 and have definitely not exhausted their service life.
                        Just for comparison, the first shots fired in WWII were fired by the Schleswig-Holstein, which entered service in 1908. She served until 1944, when she was sunk by Allied aircraft.
                      13. 0
                        3 September 2026 16: 26
                        The Andrey had a hole, if only the Pavel could be repaired, but they write about their poor habitability and seaworthiness in rough seas.
                        Perhaps for these reasons they were not repaired.
                        Then they would need to be rebuilt.
                        Could the three battleships that were in the Black Sea and whose power plants were blown up by the British have been restored?
                      14. +1
                        3 September 2026 16: 43
                        Quote: hohol95
                        "Andrey" had a hole

                        These are minor details. The torpedoes on British boats aren't all that powerful, and there were plenty of docks in the Baltic. It's not like Port Arthur, where they managed without docks.
                        Quote: hohol95
                        poor habitability and seaworthiness in rough seas.

                        It's unlikely they would have been sent around Africa and to LA like the Germans. And their seaworthiness is quite acceptable for the Baltic.
                        The same applies to habitability.
                        After all, "Peter the Great", who is generally an overgrown monitor, spent most of his service in the Mediterranean.
                        .
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Could the three battleships that were in the Black Sea and whose power plants were blown up by the British have been restored?

                        It's a difficult question. Theoretically, yes, but here I'd probably agree with our domestic experts. The game wasn't worth the candle.
                        But bringing the dreadnought back from Bizerte with the Noviks and submarines was definitely worth it! And by the way, the cost wasn't that high. But what can you do now...
                      15. 0
                        3 September 2026 18: 26
                        But bringing the dreadnought back from Bizerte with the Noviks and submarines was definitely worth it! And by the way, the cost wasn't that high. But what can you do now...

                        Was it only about money?
                        They write that in politics and not only in the politics of the USSR.
                      16. +1
                        4 September 2026 18: 47
                        Quote: hohol95
                        They write that in politics

                        It was all about money.
                        The French government recognized the USSR and, lacking any formal grounds for retaining the ships, agreed to hand them over to the Soviet side. But then a problem arose. The ships were unable to make the journey under their own power and needed at least some repairs. And, in principle, our side was willing to pay for them. But the French francs, having spent (albeit not without compensation) on maintaining the Bizerte squadron, rightly expected that the repairs would be entrusted to French companies, thus returning the money to their economy.
                        But our "experts" looked at the prices and decided that the repairs would be cheaper in Italy (or Germany, which is completely out of reach). The Francs, naturally, were offended. In parliament, they even asked why on earth we were bearing the costs, while the pasta makers were profiting from it?
                        It was because of this stupid attempt to save money that the deal fell through. request
                        What is noteworthy is that we have stepped on such rakes more than once or twice.
                      17. +1
                        4 September 2026 20: 55
                        Maybe so...
                        Or maybe politics got in the way...
                        hi drinks
                      18. +1
                        7 September 2026 10: 25
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        It was because of this stupid attempt to save money that the deal fell through.

                        What an incredibly sad story(((( crying
                      19. +3
                        2 September 2026 10: 40
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Briefly - What could you personally propose as an "alternative" to the actions of the Black Sea Fleet during the Great Patriotic War?

                        But there are no sensible alternatives there. The fleet's actions change nothing - because in such theaters of operations it is merely naval forces of the ground forcesIf the army is unable to hold off the enemy at the entrance to Crimea and retreats to the RND and beyond, then the actions of the fleet, no matter how reasonable they may be, will help like a dead poultice.
                      20. +1
                        2 September 2026 16: 29
                        And yet, surely the fleet's actions could have inflicted greater damage on the enemy and fewer losses on the Soviet fleet?
                      21. +2
                        2 September 2026 10: 36
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        However, in WWI we drove the Turks beyond the Bosphorus, while in WWII our fleet was forced to retreat to distant bases. Therefore, the comparison is definitely not in the Red Navy's favor.

                        What does the Red Navy have to do with it if the Red Army retreated to Sevastopol and beyond—to Novorossiysk and Tuapse? What naval dominance can we talk about if, by the summer of 1942, the fleet couldn't even supply its main base—because the army abandoned the Kerch Peninsula and its airfields that covered the route?
                      22. +3
                        2 September 2026 15: 48
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        What does the Red Navy have to do with it if it's the Red Army?

                        Eh... also turned out to be worse than RIA? feel
                        But overall, I understand what you mean. The comparison isn't entirely accurate.
                      23. +3
                        2 September 2026 10: 33
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        And in the Black Sea they didn’t have anything stronger than motorboats...

                        In the Black Sea, as in any inland sea, naval supremacy is determined by the situation on the land front. If the army retreats, leaving the fleet with its main base blockaded and without shipbuilding and repair facilities, the fleet can only survive. In fact, after a year of war, the active strength of the Black Sea Fleet was reduced to a flotilla.
                2. +1
                  1 September 2026 13: 30
                  Quote: Victor Leningradets
                  The losses of ships and personnel led to the cessation of all naval operations, except for parades.

                  Well, we've turned the Malaya Zemlya tragedy into an event without which we wouldn't have won... The Germans and Romanians methodically destroyed our troops with artillery, entrenched in the bridgehead trenches for 225 days... 25 dead... three divisions, and they only entered Novorossiysk from Malaya Zemlya two days after the city's liberation... minefields were a hindrance... and how many of our pilots died from anti-aircraft fire while covering Malaya Zemlya and the sailors on sunken ships. There's never been a more senseless landing operation... But as always, they turned their mistakes into heroism...
                  1. +2
                    3 September 2026 10: 46
                    Quote: Konnick
                    There was no more senseless landing operation.

                    The Strelna landings, the landings on the islands of FZ, Merekulya, Yuzhnaya Ozereyka... there are countless of them.

                    As for Malaya Zemlya, it was initially intended as a diversionary operation, supporting the main landing at Yuzhnaya Ozereika. But the fleet failed miserably in its landing in South Ossetia, failing even to coordinate a strike on enemy positions before the landing. And then... Bolinders and tanks burn under artillery fire, the KL land their landing force elsewhere—successfully, without losses, but without informing anyone until the order to withdraw was received. The planned landing of the first echelon of the landing force reaches Glebovka—but the fleet withdraws, and the landing force receives orders to break through to Malaya Zemlya.
                    But at Malaya Zemlya, the landing force successfully landed and secured a foothold on the shore. The delivery distance was much shorter, plus the fleet still had forces remaining that hadn't landed in South Ossetia. In short, the successful diversionary landing was quickly transformed into the main one.
              3. -1
                1 September 2026 13: 39
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                What sources did you use to study the history of WWI?

                Events on the Caucasian Front according to Budyonny, "The Path Traveled" and "Sentimental Journey" by Shklovsky...a very interesting book
              4. 0
                1 September 2026 22: 42
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                The Black Sea Fleet generally has dominance at sea,

                I recall G. Orlov's letter to Catherine II after the Battle of Chesma: "A miracle has happened, Mother. A fleet even worse than ours has been found."
                But on the topic at hand, the problem isn't the sailors' education, but the country's leadership's lack of understanding of the navy's problems. People see an aircraft carrier and want one just like it. The problem is, our country hasn't yet matured enough for aircraft carriers. Neither industry is capable of building such a ship within a reasonable timeframe and at a reasonable cost. Nor are naval personnel capable of operating such a ship.
                In the ground army, everything is the same, but it fights much more often and problems quickly emerge and are easier to fix.
              5. +2
                1 September 2026 23: 47
                Andrey, I agree. And he helped the Allies, too. On April 2, 1915, the cruiser Askold participated in the Allied landing on the Asian shore of the Dardanelles Strait. He landed Senegalese troops, who pushed the Turks back from the shore, allowing the rest of the landing force to land.
                1. +4
                  2 September 2026 07: 29
                  Quote: Alex013
                  Andrey, I agree. And he helped his allies, too.

                  Good afternoon! Yes, that's right.
            2. +6
              1 September 2026 15: 45
              Quote: Konnick
              Who locked himself in minefields

              But do not!
              During WWII, our navy did exactly the same thing, planting mines around our bases. The only difference was that our bases weren't threatened, and it was our own ships that were blown up by the mines.
        2. +6
          1 September 2026 12: 00
          Yeah, but the Tsarist navy with educated officers and admirals fought better?

          The Tsarist navy had its own "rattles", but the Soviet Union did not achieve victories equal to Chesma, Sinop and Gangut.
          Moreover, during the Great Patriotic War, not a single ship or boat under the USSR naval pennant lowered the red flag to the enemy, unlike the RIF.
          1. +2
            1 September 2026 16: 17
            You have to be a very brave person to be a coward in the Red Army.
          2. +5
            1 September 2026 21: 41
            Oh, if only instead of Grandpa Nebogatov there was a commissar in a leather jacket - they would have dragged three Japanese battleships each to Vladik on lassos...
  3. +5
    1 September 2026 07: 25
    Good day, Andrey!
    The resulting article was a bit alarmist, claiming that the Navy is a military organization, not just a bunch of men milling about on deck and in the quarters. Well, try explaining that to Lugansk Locksmith, who, even in 1941, after all the failures, advocated for the election of commanders. But he's a class figure! And personally loyal, by the way.
    So it turned out that the Party was simultaneously a guiding, directing force, and a hindering, destructive force. And there was no way to steer the situation as smoothly as possible.
    1. + 11
      1 September 2026 08: 52
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      The article turned out to be a bit panicky.

      Well, why not? :)))) I didn't plan to panic, but tried to understand the professional level of our naval officers - and why it turned out this way
  4. -3
    1 September 2026 08: 12
    But instead the young officer ends up on a ship where officers lacks
    Once again, there were no officers then, it grates on the ear.

    by the beginning of the Great Patriotic WarThere are 4 officers. and the admiral had experience of commanding as an officer during the First World War.
    and in the German navy there are such thousands
    and thousands of Russian naval officers from WWI were shot, imprisoned, and stripped of their rights by the stupid new government

    What's the point of absent or incompetent officers? It's just unnecessary bloodshed...
    1. + 11
      1 September 2026 08: 56
      Quote: Olgovich
      Once again, there were no officers then, it grates on the ear.

      The Soviet Navy didn't exist either, but I specifically stated in the first article that I would refer to it as such. That's the first point—there WERE officers in the Navy—lieutenants, captains, and others, but they weren't called officers in official documents.
      1. +2
        1 September 2026 10: 57
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        This is the first time - the second time - there WERE officers in the Navy - lieutenant, captain, etc., but in official documents they were not called officers.

        They were in relation to modern times, but back then, by calling someone an officer, be it a lieutenant or a captain, you could get into the OO with unclear prospects...
        1. +3
          1 September 2026 12: 17
          There was no Soviet Navy back then, but I stipulated right away, in the first article, that I would call it that. The same goes for officers.
      2. +1
        1 September 2026 11: 18
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        officers in the Navy were - lieutenant, captain

        There was no lieutenant IPR - this is "command staff" (abbreviated as command staff) or "command staff" (command staff).

        They became officers in 1943.
        1. +8
          1 September 2026 12: 22
          Quote: Olgovich
          first mate of the famous "Slava"

          So, if I call captains and lieutenants officers, even though they weren't called that in that historical period, that's bad. We definitely need to get to the bottom of this. But calling a senior officer a first mate (in the Russian Navy, there were senior officers)—that's perfectly acceptable. What's Jupiter allowed to do? Right, Olgovich? laughing
          1. -1
            1 September 2026 12: 41
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            If I call captains and lieutenants officers, even though they weren't called that during that historical period, then that's bad.

            Unhistorical - I would have looked at you in 1937 if you had named the Kraskoms... officers
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            REEF

            Wtf...what? belay
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            This is possible

            It is necessary - in the 30s, which we are talking about, that is exactly what he was called - first mate
            1. +5
              1 September 2026 13: 19
              Quote: Olgovich

              Wtf...what?

              Russian Imperial Navy.
              Quote: Olgovich
              which speech, that's exactly what he was called - the first mate

              And in the 40s, lieutenants and captains were called officers. But for some reason, that doesn't stop you from criticizing them.
              1. -1
                2 September 2026 09: 14
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                And in the 40s, lieutenants and captains were called officers. But for some reason, that doesn't stop you from criticizing them.

                You are writing about the 30s.
                1. +5
                  2 September 2026 09: 54
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  You are writing about the 30s.

                  That's what I'm saying - you write about a senior officer as a first mate (although he was a senior officer in the 10s, and first mates appeared in the 20s, this was already the USSR and you can do this.
                  I can’t talk about lieutenants and captains in the 30s as officers, because they only began to be called that way in the 40s. laughing
                  Double standards, they are so double ...
                  1. -1
                    2 September 2026 12: 07
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Although he was a senior officer in the 10s, and first mates appeared in the 20s, this is already the USSR and you can do this

                    and you can too - but in the 30s there were first mates and red commanders.

                    And the one who called the Red Army commander an officer in the 30s was exposed as a saboteur.
    2. -3
      1 September 2026 23: 21
      Quote: Olgovich
      and thousands of Russian naval officers from WWI were shot, imprisoned, and stripped of their rights by the stupid new government

      No, the navy was simply recruited based on class. Appointments to command positions were based on a noble family name, not skill. Researchers, for example, consider it a miracle that Stepan Osipovich Makarov, without noble birth, was able to enroll in the naval academy, even though his father had completed his service as a staff captain.
      This human trash was no longer needed by anyone after the revolution.
      In the ground army, merit was valued more, so a significant portion of officers ended up in the Red Army
      1. +1
        2 September 2026 09: 12
        Quote: ism_ek
        human waste is not needed

        the fleet after the VOR, but he was promoted unnaturally and forcibly - only for the right origin, despite illiteracy, stupidity and incompetence.

        dybenki will help you...
        1. 0
          2 September 2026 10: 31
          Quote: Olgovich
          despite illiteracy, stupidity and incompetence.

          Have you read too much Bulgakov? Just because someone writes, sings, or dances beautifully doesn't mean they can be trusted.
      2. +4
        2 September 2026 09: 28
        Quote: ism_ek
        Researchers, for example, consider it a miracle that Stepan Osipovich Makarov, without having noble origins, was able to enter the naval academy.

        What "researchers"?))
        Dear Ilya, the Naval Navigation School in Nikolaevsk-on-Amur, where Makarov studied, was indeed a place for all classes. Another issue is that he was the only graduate who, upon graduation, was promoted not to naval conductor, but to naval midshipman. But the credit for this goes entirely to the Naval Navigation School itself.
        But in general, it was precisely during the period when VK Konstantin Nikolaevich was Chief of the Fleet that the admission rules to the Naval Corps became more liberal, allowing not only hereditary nobles but also, so to speak, commoners to enroll. Rozhestvensky, for example, wasn't a hereditary nobleman either, but he was still able to enroll. However, later, under Alexander III, the screws were tightened again.
        1. -1
          2 September 2026 10: 27
          Do you consider this order of fleet formation normal?
          I understand that under Peter the Great, when service was mandatory for nobles and they were conscripted as privates—they were the cream of the nation. But gradually, the nobility became the trash that dragged the empire down.
          1. +2
            2 September 2026 13: 42
            You are right that the nobility has degenerated...
            Elites are generally prone to degeneration, even varietal potatoes...
            But what can you offer in return?
            The emperor had no other elites for you.
            You were offered the best of what is available, and by the way, the principle of hereditary transfer of privileges is not the worst of what is available - practice as a criterion of truth will help
            1. +1
              3 September 2026 08: 09
              Quote: Dmitry24
              and by the way, the principle of hereditary transfer of privileges is not the worst of those available - practice as a criterion of truth will help

              This is medieval savagery. And it's not about any kind of social justice—there isn't any, and there never will be. The point is that this model of governance has proven ineffective in today's conditions.
          2. +7
            2 September 2026 15: 44
            Quote: ism_ek
            Do you consider this order of fleet formation normal?

            Colleague, my comment was directed solely at "researchers" who don't know where SOM studied and who was actually accepted into the Naval Corps. (Not just nobles; I can give more examples if you'd like.)
            As for the formation of the naval command staff, we have two extremes. One is that the corps was primarily attended by representatives of the elite, but they were still trained seriously. And skill was also required. I'm talking about the notorious qualifications.
            Second, the military academies were attended by representatives of, let's say, yesterday's lower classes, but instead of learning their immediate responsibilities, they were taught to waver along with the party line and to brand "opportunists" at Komsomol meetings. As for the theory and practice of naval affairs, they were frankly unimportant.
            In my opinion, both systems are quite far from perfect.
            Perhaps one could call the system that emerged after the war, when they began to teach seriously and stopped paying too much attention to social background, close to ideal, if I had not seen with my own eyes what senior officers raised by this system did in the early 90s. request
  5. -2
    1 September 2026 08: 16
    Well, yes, the "little one" should be commanded by a captain of the first rank?
    1. + 10
      1 September 2026 08: 57
      Quote: sergiogerasimo
      Well, yes, the "little one" should be commanded by a captain of the first rank?

      The little one should NOT be commanded by a person who started serving in the navy two years ago
      1. +3
        1 September 2026 10: 56
        I'll answer simply: how to serve.
        If he's a submariner and spends 50% of his time at sea on patrols and exercises, and if the crew is staffed by non-commissioned officers of suitable service, then in difficult times he could very well command a small ship he knows. That's if he's a diligent officer, not a Komsomol organizer, a hidden whistleblower of enemies who gave him failing grades and sent him on duty.
        It's important to understand that at that time, the career ladder was a reliable one, based on voluntary and not always unscrupulous cooperation with the authorities. Why bother working hard and mastering the intricacies of the service and engineering conundrums when there was an easier path to the top? Write a denunciation, speak at a party meeting, kiss up to the right people—and you're a top dog.
      2. 0
        1 September 2026 12: 38
        For the first time, I disagree with you. What if a lieutenant is promoted to lieutenant two years after graduating from academy, or a merchant navigator two years after mobilization and submarine training? It all depends on the individual. For example, Kuznetsov or Oktyabrsky, at the beginning of the war, were a disgrace to the navy.
  6. +6
    1 September 2026 08: 22
    Thank you, dear Andrey, for your observations.
    I would like to add several important aspects that existed regardless of the desire or unwillingness to show that "There will be a continuity from the commanders of the pre-revolutionary fleet", things would have gone differently.
    Of course, there would be no point in arguing here, if not for one thing...the logic of historical development...
    Russia's defeat in World War I (like Bulgaria or Turkey) was precisely due to the fact that its management personnel could not cope with the scale of the tasks facing them, and the successes of, for example, the Black Sea Fleet, did not change anything in this situation.
    Therefore, the revolution swept away these cadres - both the right and the guilty - precisely by the forces of the “beauty and pride of the revolution,” which, how did it happen?, became the drive of the revolution.
    + civil war, seizure of ships by foreign powers and withdrawal of the remnants of the Black Sea Fleet to Tunisia, etc.
    In the 20s, there was no time for a navy in a completely landlocked country...
    If Stalin had started "calling" people into the navy, he would have received the same response as he had received from the peasants regarding bread:
    You dance first, and we'll think about it...

    But with the recognition of the threat of war from the 30s, which was not at all obvious in 1929, a scaling up of personnel began everywhere: in the navy, in the air force, and in the tank forces.
    This influenced the quality of personnel and their selection in the 30s...
    Just as it is impossible today to quickly and instantly produce 7th-grade turners in the quantity (nobody knows how many) that someone in the government is fantasizing about, it was also impossible to do this in the 30s with naval personnel...
    But the system of command, headed by the Bolshevik Party, even under these conditions ensured victory over the enemy, and the navy, even with the personnel that was available, as was the entire army, from privates to future great commanders, then still inexperienced generals, was used to its full potential: anti-aircraft batteries in Leningrad, guns in fixed positions on the forts of Leningrad and Sevastopol, sailors, as marines in the battles for Odessa and Sevastopol, in amphibious landings, etc. Active actions to protect convoys in the north, in battles in the Arctic.
    1. + 10
      1 September 2026 09: 00
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      If there had been a continuity from the commanders of the pre-revolutionary fleet, things would have gone differently.

      Things would undoubtedly have gone better. But the USSR lacked the resources to build a "fleet of future officers" like Germany, so what happened was exactly what happened. Some things could have been improved, but a fundamentally different result was impossible.
      1. +6
        1 September 2026 22: 38
        Andrey, thank you for a careful and well-researched article about what was probably one of the main problems facing the navy, not only in the 30s.
        It's good that the article has sparked such a heated discussion.
        It's a shame that the people who came to power in the country didn't draw any conclusions from the history of people (not ships, guns, tanks, and planes, but people!), and instead ruined the Soviet era...
        It's worth remembering that military schools in the country in the 1930s and 1950s were of two levels: secondary military schools with two years of study and higher military schools with four to five years. Academies don't count—they were a different level and had a different composition.
        And whatever the officer was (the command staff before 1943), such was the fleet and such was the fulfillment of the tasks set by the country's leadership.
        And today it's the same story.
        The problem is, as you rightly point out, that it's impossible to train a sufficiently skilled fleet and unit commander in three or five years. Not at all. Not with money, not with the idea.
        And the country entered the war with a poorly trained command staff, and not just in the navy. Reading the questionnaires about June 22, 1941 (the famous post-war survey) and the work of the command staff of that period is a painful experience. And there's nothing left to talk about the causes of the tragedies of that time after this... We're reaping the same thing today...
        History teaches nothing, but mercilessly asks for unlearned lessons...
        1. +3
          2 September 2026 07: 32
          Good afternoon, Vasily! Thank you for your kind words!
          Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
          And whatever the officer was (the command staff before 1943), such was the fleet and such was the fulfillment of the tasks set by the country's leadership.

          I completely agree. After all, it's not ships that fight, it's people.
    2. -3
      1 September 2026 11: 44
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      Russia's defeat in World War I (like Bulgaria or Turkey)

      Russia defeated Turkey in the Great War, but lost the war...both? belay


      Let me remind you that the Entente, of which Russia was the main part, won the war.

      Russia's defeat, as well as the betrayal of Brest, was acknowledged only by the German occupiers and their accomplices, unrecognized by anyone, the impostor Bolsheviks—NOBODY ELSE.
      1. +3
        1 September 2026 12: 39
        Let me remind you that the Entente, of which Russia was the main part, won the war.

        The Entente won - the Russian Empire lost - so what?

        What does it have to do with it Bolsheviks and the defeat of the tsarist empire? - they came to power, when the army had already fled.
        The Brest Peace Treaty was a salvation for the country, because Bolsheviks They were able to bargain for at least "this", threatening the Germans with revolutionary problems in their rear, under conditions when the UPR signed peace: other governments would not have succeeded in this.
        Something Bolsheviks there wasn't, did you lose to the Japanese too?
        Or did someone win, and the king is out of work again?
        Stop writing this cheesy propaganda!
        1. 0
          1 September 2026 12: 55
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          The Entente won - the Russian Empire lost - so what?

          The Russian Republic is part of the Entente, that's what.
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          What do the Bolsheviks have to do with the defeat of the Tsarist Empire? - They came to power when the army had already fled.

          Don't talk nonsense - the front was even on the territory of the aggressors, which, you see, is already hundreds of thousands died from hunger in the rear.
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          The Brest Peace Treaty was salvation for the country,

          a tragedy for the country and the world, prolonging the slaughter and directly responsible for the additional millions of its victims.

          and without peace the Germans could not have achieved anything more - they did not have the strength - the Western front was cracking, and they would not have received gold and bread.
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          were able to negotiate

          They didn't extract anything - they were sent, and so they went, blindly following the orders of the master.

          And yes, the border along Brest in 1918 is the border today, in general.
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          threatening the Germans with revolutionary problems in their rear,

          they were sent with their threats and they obediently shut up
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          When the Ukrainian People's Republic signed the peace treaty

          Why did you drag the UNR there YOURSELF?
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          There were no Bolsheviks, but they also lost to the Japanese?

          The Far East was preserved by populating it at a rate the Soviets never dreamed of.
          1. -1
            1 September 2026 14: 01
            Rates are relative. And here it's better to stick to simple population addition, rather than counting in units of times.
      2. -1
        1 September 2026 21: 48
        What about our Entente allies, who crossed Russia out from the list of victors?
        1. -2
          2 September 2026 09: 20
          Quote: Dmitry24
          What about our Entente allies, who crossed Russia out from the list of victors?

          According to the Treaty of Versailles, Russia had the SAME rights to reparations and contributions as France, etc.

          The Bolsheviks abandoned them.
          1. +1
            2 September 2026 11: 49
            The right to make contributions was tied to obligations unacceptable to the Bolsheviks. Why exact anything from a devastated Germany when there was a population and a church left untapped in Russia?
            Yes, take whatever you want in Europe, just get rid of the invaders and don't interfere with us running things here...
            1. -2
              2 September 2026 11: 56
              Quote: Dmitry24
              The right to contribution was linked to obligations unacceptable to the Bolsheviks.

              no, having signed Treaty of Rapallo, April 16, 1922, the Soviets (RSFSR) and Weimar Germany officially recorded a mutual renunciation of any reparations, military expenses and compensation for damage caused during the First World War, thereby robbing Russia of legal reparations and contributions from the aggressor.
  7. +3
    1 September 2026 08: 31
    But by the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, only 4 officers and admirals had experience of commanding at officer rank during the First World War.


    It's strange, I have different data.
    in the program "Historical Education" by Egor Yakovlev.
    Kirill Nazarenko: During the Great Patriotic War, among the admirals, generals, and captains of the 1st rank of the Soviet fleet, there were 120 people who were officers before the revolution
    .
    https://radiosputnik.ru/20240217/1927918098.html?ysclid=mti873zl9u513268099
    I will add that about 30 admirals and captains, former tsarist officers, served in the General Staff and other naval departments, and also taught at the Naval Academy. And don’t forget Isakov.
  8. + 11
    1 September 2026 08: 43
    But he received the position of senior assistant to the commander only on January 1, 1904, after 16 years of service!

    Even then, judging by Semenov’s own recollections, there was plenty of chaos and incompetence, which, in essence, led to the well-known result.
    The reason, by and large, is the same: the explosive growth of the fleet, both quantitative and qualitative.
  9. +2
    1 September 2026 08: 51
    Very, very interesting. Thanks to the author. We look forward to the continuation.
  10. BAI
    +7
    1 September 2026 09: 04
    higher education - 21%;

    My father was born in 1923 (October), in 1941 he was called up, immediately to accelerated courses for junior commanders (one-year), in 1942 he became a junior lieutenant, commander of a mortar platoon - to the front.
    Junior commander, without higher and without higher military education.
    The problem is common to the entire army.
    1. +4
      1 September 2026 09: 51
      Quote: BAI
      The problem is common to the entire army.

      Yes, of course, I mentioned this in the previous article.
    2. +2
      1 September 2026 18: 59
      “My father was born in 1923 (October), in 1941 he was called up, immediately to accelerated courses for junior commanders (one-year), in 1942 he became a junior lieutenant, commander of a mortar platoon - to the front.
      "Junior commander, without higher education and without higher military education." Higher military education is an academy. Most officers graduating back in the 60s lacked a higher education. But that's beside the point. My father, in 1943, after 9th grade, entered flight school, which he graduated from in 1947. In the early 50s, already a senior lieutenant and flight commander, he passed the 10th grade exam as an external student and entered Zhukovka. The war was long over.
    3. 0
      3 September 2026 18: 17
      Numerous memoirs. A 7th-grade student—a very educated man. You could trust him with anything, anything. They tried to train him to be an officer right away.
      And if you've already completed 10th grade, a conscript's career in the army is guaranteed.
  11. +6
    1 September 2026 10: 16
    The cost of a naval officer's mistake is higher than that of a "boot".
    What could possibly screw up a "boot"? Well, it would destroy a tank. Completely! But a single tank can be replaced, but how do you imagine repairing/replacing a component in the depths of the engine room? Some problems can't be solved with money; they require partial disassembly of the ship, which takes time and ship repair capacity. To expose the component, you'd have to cut the decks, or even the side.
    P.S. While I was there, the valiant BC-5 on the Kirov destroyed the gas turbine generator in the forward engine room. The unit itself... well, a cylinder about two meters in diameter and six meters long.
    1. +7
      1 September 2026 10: 28
      Yeah, yeah, I recognize the usual arguments about who's to blame on a ship that failed a mission. The horns or the oil puppets. The BC5 failed and didn't start the engine, the water, the pressure, the electricity, or the gunners missed. Just kidding, life on a ship is complicated and there are plenty of stories.
      1. +7
        1 September 2026 10: 31
        Joke.
        The mechanic and the helmsman argued about who was in charge of the ship and swapped places. An hour later, the helmsman climbs out of the engine and says, "That's it, I can't start the engine." The mechanic (at the helm): "You're trying in vain. We've been sitting on the sandbank for half an hour already."
        1. +8
          1 September 2026 12: 32
          Quote: Not the fighter
          "You're trying in vain. We've been stranded for half an hour already."

          The "We've been walking through the desert for half an hour" option is funnier:))))
        2. +1
          3 September 2026 18: 18
          BC-1 navigational. It's definitely more important.
          1. +1
            3 September 2026 19: 10
            Without the BC-5, you'll only be drawing maps by candlelight and in the cold, standing at the pier.
    2. BAI
      +4
      1 September 2026 12: 51
      The cost of a naval officer's mistake is higher than that of a "boot".
      What can screw up a "boot"?

      Press the wrong button in the Strategic Missile Forces. And then ask, "Where is America?"
      1. +3
        1 September 2026 19: 30
        You can't press a button even if you wanted to, but you can certainly launch a missile from under your wing at an airfield parking lot full of aircraft. A wrench dropped in an ICBM silo once caused quite a stir. And anti-aircraft gunners have mistakenly shot down civilian airliners. Stupidity has caused a lot of trouble.
  12. +5
    1 September 2026 10: 57
    What kind of professionalism can we talk about in the navy if, from 1921 to 1939, the Soviet Navy was commanded successively by Pantzerzhansky, Zof, Muklevich, Orlov, Smirnov, and Frinovsky? All of those listed were executed.
  13. +5
    1 September 2026 11: 16
    About professionalism officers of the Red Navy in the 30s

    professionalism has never been held in high esteem
    Today, given the availability of training opportunities and personnel continuity, it's not those who are supposed to be in charge, but those who "write well," report, and so on, according to the list...
  14. +2
    1 September 2026 12: 09
    Quote: BAI
    higher education - 21%;

    My father was born in 1923 (October), in 1941 he was called up, immediately to accelerated courses for junior commanders (one-year), in 1942 he became a junior lieutenant, commander of a mortar platoon - to the front.
    Junior commander, without higher and without higher military education.
    The problem is common to the entire army.

    Lucky... Of the 41-year-old conscripts, only about 2% survived until Victory Day.
    1. 0
      1 September 2026 12: 19
      A propaganda tale.
      It was exposed back during Perestroika. The real figure is 11-12%.
      1. -3
        1 September 2026 12: 40
        Whether 89% or 98%, the result is the same - there are almost no survivors left.
        And, by the way, there's no point in throwing around clichéd accusations; propagandists are ALL storytellers. Come to think of it.
    2. +3
      1 September 2026 15: 08
      Quote: acetophenon
      Lucky... Of the 41-year-old conscripts, only about 2% survived until Victory Day.

      And even those weren't at the front, the survival rate is certainly higher, not everyone fought. My father was born in '24, he was drafted in October of '42 and sent to the Far East. There was an unspoken rule back then...his father, my grandfather, died in August of '42, so they didn't send him to the front, so he only fought for three days...in the Seishin landing, he received the Medal for Victory over Japan and the Nakhimov Medal, and also a grenade fragment in his leg.
    3. +5
      1 September 2026 18: 38
      My mother graduated from school in 1943. According to her, not a single boy from her class returned from the front.
  15. +1
    1 September 2026 17: 41
    The army faced a similar situation: in 1939, they realized a world war was looming and began to increase the Red Army's strength. But there were no commanders for the new units. So they weren't trained, but appointed.
    1. +2
      1 September 2026 18: 14
      This did not happen in 1939.
      There wasn't enough money for everything at once.
      As well as people.
      1. +2
        1 September 2026 20: 12
        Quote: hohol95
        This did not happen in 1939.

        The number of Red Army soldiers by year:
        1927 - about 586,000 people.
        1932 - about 604,300 people
        1937 – 1,518,090 people
        1938 - 1,582,057 people
        February 21, 1939 - 1,910,477 people
        January 1, 1940 - 3,851,700 people
        The beginning of the Great Patriotic War (approximately 1941) – about 5 million people.
        1. +1
          1 September 2026 20: 21
          In 1937 and 1938, when the number of troops more than doubled, where did they get the command staff?
          Or was it already prepared given that the majority of the army was on a territorial type of recruitment and service?

          In 1937, according to Yakir, to defend the country, at least 170 divisions were needed in the West and at least 30 divisions in the East. Divisions in border districts were to be manned at 60-70% of their wartime strength, while in internal districts, at 30-35%, and the time it took to bring them to full combat readiness should not exceed one month. In anticipation of the impending war, the Soviet leadership increased the size of the army, which by 1939 had grown 3,5-fold. Compared to 1930 levels, the number of tanks had increased 43-fold, aircraft 6,5-fold, field artillery 7-fold, anti-tank artillery 70-fold, and machine guns 5,5-fold. The Red Army had become a mechanized and motorized military force, comparable to the best armies in Europe. Under these conditions, the question arose about the feasibility of territorial militia units, which were unable to master modern technology and were significantly inferior to regular units in their combat capabilities.
          1. +2
            2 September 2026 11: 00
            Quote: hohol95
            In 1937 and 1938, when the number of troops more than doubled, where did they get the command staff?

            From schools, from courses and from the reserves.
            The number of schools from 1937 to 1939 increased by 30%, the number of students by 80%.
            In 1937, the following commanders entered the troops:
            from academies: 2803
            from schools: 8517
            reinstated in the army and accepted from the reserve: 2675

            In 1938, the following commanders entered the troops:
            from academies: 2672
            from schools: 20316
            from junior lieutenant courses: 26750
            reinstated in the army and accepted from the reserve: 7172

            In 1939, the following commanders entered the troops:
            from academies: 4432
            from schools: 35290
            from junior lieutenant courses: 51221
            reinstated in the army and accepted from the reserve: 10204

            In two years (1938-1939), the Soviet Army received 158147 commanders, political workers and other military specialists, i.e. two and a half times more than in the previous ten years.

            Appointments and relocations in 1939 alone involved 246626 people, which was then 68,8% of the staff of the commanding staff.
            (…)
            The total number of appointments to the nomenclature positions of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR for 1939 amounted to 3031 people, i.e. 62,5% of their full-time staff; for the group of combat posts from the regiment commander and above, 2452 appointments were made in the same year, or 73,9% of their full-time staff.

            Source: F.B. Komal. Military personnel on the eve of the war
            1. +1
              2 September 2026 16: 35
              Was the overall educational level of cadets before entering military schools uniform and of good quality?
              Have all cadets completed at least 7 classes?
              1. +2
                3 September 2026 10: 19
                Quote: hohol95
                Was the overall educational level of cadets before entering military schools uniform and of good quality?

                According to official statistics, 99% of cadets had completed seven years of schooling or more.
                In 1939, graduates of workers' faculties and technical schools accounted for 14,5% of the total number of cadets enrolled in military schools, 17% of those enrolled in 10th grade, 9,9% of those enrolled in 9th grade, 12,6% of those enrolled in 8th grade, 43,9% of those enrolled in 7th grade, and 1,5% of those enrolled in universities. The improved general educational background of students made it possible, with the outbreak of war, to graduate some students and cadets early and send them to active duty.

                The "universal average" conveyor belt has finally started producing results.
                1. 0
                  3 September 2026 15: 35
                  You are citing statistics for 1939.
                  And in 1936-1938, what are the statistics on the educational level of military school cadets?
          2. +2
            2 September 2026 11: 02
            And just as the army breathed a sigh of relief in 1939, a new reform descended upon it—the formation of several cadre divisions from each of the "triple divisions," a divisional-corps reform of the armored forces, and a doubling of the Air Force. With a corresponding increase in the upper echelons—corps and army. And everything began anew—except the reserve pool had already been exhausted. The number of schools had to be increased again and the training of "suit-holders" intensified.
            In 1940 and early 1941 42 new ground and aviation schools, many schools and various courses were opened. If in 1937 there were 75 military schools and schools in the Armed Forces, including 7 naval and 18 aviation, then as of May 1, 1941 there were already 255, including 100 aviation and 16 naval.
            In almost all military schools, a 2-year training period was established instead of a 3-year one.
            In 1940, the country had 16 military academies, a Higher Military Pedagogical Institute, and eight military faculties at civilian universities. By the end of that year, the number of cadets in military schools had increased 3,6 times, and the number of students in military academies had more than doubled compared to 1937. While 20014 people were studying in Air Force schools and colleges in 1938, 29292 in 1939, and by January 1, 1941, the number had risen to 67143.

            In the pre-war years, considerable attention was paid to the training of reserve command personnel. Special courses existed for this purpose, the number of which increased severalfold on the eve of the war. While in 1937 there were 23 advanced training and training courses for reserve command personnel with a staff of 6900, by 1940 there were already 78 with a staff of 54700. Over four years (1937-1940), they trained 342310 reserve officers. Furthermore, from 1938-1940, they managed to train 106065 mid-level reserve officers from junior commanders.
            However, the system of training reserve officers through advanced courses cannot be considered sufficiently effective. Among its most significant shortcomings are the disconnect between training and the life of the troops and, consequently, the lack of practical experience in commanding units.

            But despite this, the command staff was woefully understaffed—in one tank division, if I remember correctly, the entire operations department consisted of a single commander. Plus, a huge number of rookie commanders emerged who lacked sufficient competence and simply hadn't had time to master their positions.
            Due to frequent movements, many officers before the war performed their posts for a short time and did not have time to gain the necessary experience. In a number of military districts, up to half of the command staff had practical command experience from 6 months to 1 year. In all districts, 30–40% of mid-level commanders were reserve officers with insufficient military training. In February 1941, 35,7% of the Air Force commanders of the districts and their deputies were held for up to 6 months, 39,3% - from 6 months to 1 year and 25% - over a year, 55% of the commanders of aviation corps, brigades and their deputies served in this capacity for up to 6 months, 41,3% - from 6 months to one year, and only 3,7% - over one year. 37,4% of aviation regiment commanders commanded regiments for less than 6 months, 27,6% - from 6 months to one year, 13% - from one year to 2 years, and 22% - over 2 years.
          3. 0
            2 September 2026 12: 36
            Quote: hohol95
            In 1937 and 1938, when the number of troops more than doubled, where did they get the command staff?
            The numbers there didn't double; they simply switched from a territorial army to a regular one. The "proletarian with a rifle at his machine" concept didn't work out because the territorial divisions were spent almost as much as regular ones, and their combat readiness proved incomparable.
  16. +2
    2 September 2026 13: 53
    The professionalism of the Red Navy's command staff is also demonstrated by the following fact: the very high ratio of command personnel to enlisted personnel. For example, on the Soviet Type C and German Series VII submarines, which had similar performance characteristics, the Soviet type had eight commanders, while the German type had four officers. A similar situation existed throughout the armed forces, not just the navy. A larger number of authorized commanders required a larger number of cadets, which automatically led to a decline in the level of education and professionalism. It was a vicious circle. Breaking it would take time, but there was no time, and war began.
    1. +1
      3 September 2026 11: 21
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      The following fact also speaks to the professionalism of the RKKF command staff: the very high percentage of command staff in relation to privates.

      The issue here isn't the professionalism of the command staff, but a different approach to junior command. In the West, NCOs are essentially non-commissioned officers, professionals who have served for years. And so they can be trusted with complex equipment or commanding dozens of people in critical locations (for example, organizing aircraft turnover from hangar to deck to hangar or arranging aircraft on an aircraft carrier). In our country, a sergeant is like a private, but with snot on his shoulder straps. He earned his stripes, served, and then retired. And there was no way to retain him in the Soviet Armed Forces: the command frankly couldn't understand why they should pay non-commissioned specialists.
      In my report, I substantiated the following proposition: service on nuclear submarines requires that a sailor who has mastered their specialty serve in their position for at least five to six years. Considering that extended-term enlistees, whose pay was being cut at the time, were being demobilized en masse, and their conscription period was being shortened by a year, it made more sense to recruit volunteers under contract.
      The commander-in-chief listened to me, his face gradually turning purple. Finally, he couldn't take it anymore:
      "Well, that's enough fantasizing! How could you even think of such a thing? A Russian sailor serving for money! You'd be better off making socks and shirts!" Gorshkov glanced at Osipenko. "Report, Commander, when should I relieve the first mate—today or later?"
      © Osipenko L., Zhiltsov L., Mormul N. Atomic submarine epic. Feats, failures, disasters.
      It's funny that exactly the same incident happened 70 years earlier:
      As I.P. Pavlov wrote in his report on the results of his work, back in 1892, after the test voyages on the Minin, he proposed, following the French example, introducing a salary for knowledgeable specialists that would prevent private coastal enterprises from luring them away. For such "sedition," which undermined all the foundations of state "economy," I.P. Pavlov was reprimanded by the head of the Naval Ministry.
      © Melnikov R.M. Squadron battleships of the Peresvet type.

      So, in the Soviet Armed Forces, every position of any importance had to be filled with officers. This resulted in entire officer crews on submarines. smile
      1. 0
        3 September 2026 17: 31
        The issue here is not the professionalism of the command staff, but a different approach to the junior command staff.
        And in this too, but only at the level of platoon/crew commander, etc., i.e., lieutenant ranks. However, there was an excess of officers at the higher levels as well. During the war, a fighter regiment had just over 20 aircraft, but the rank was that of a colonel. The same was true in artillery, tank forces, and so on. Submarines were often not allowed to leave headquarters for combat missions without an escort. Almost all Soviet units, formations, and formations were sometimes several times smaller than those of both the Germans and the Allies, while the ranks of their command staff were at least equal, if not higher.
        1. +4
          4 September 2026 10: 48
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          The same applies to artillery, tank forces, etc.

          As noted by D. Shein, the "redundancy" of ranks in the tank forces during the Great Patriotic War was deliberate. Tankers were given structures "one rank higher" (calling a regiment a brigade, and a division a corps), with corresponding ranks according to the "grid," firstly, to provide the armored and combat units with stronger headquarters and logistics, with which they could operate not only with their own forces but also with regularly deployed reinforcements. Secondly, to elevate tankers above the infantry and somehow protect the armored and combat units from the insatiable desire of mid-level infantry commanders to boss tankers around—for example, by dispersing a unit into battalion and even platoon divisions, or by forcing tankers to single-handedly carry out infantry tasks. The difference between a tank brigade commander and an infantry division commander is much smaller than that between a regiment commander and a division commander. smile
  17. 0
    3 September 2026 11: 01
    Quote: Alexey RA
    But at Malaya Zemlya, the landing force successfully landed and secured a foothold on the shore. The delivery distance was much shorter, plus the fleet still had forces remaining that hadn't landed in South Ossetia. In short, the successful diversionary landing was quickly transformed into the main one.

    So what was the point of this landing? They were constantly sending troops there, sitting in trenches under fire... hungry and without water. I'll say it again: 25 dead, and 75 were there in 225 days. The Novorossiysk port wasn't used by the Germans; it was under direct fire from our artillery on the southern side of the bay. The Blue Line was supplied through Anapa, which was attacked only once by torpedo boats. The rest of the time, they and other warships were busy transporting personnel, food, and ammunition to Malaya Zemlya. Who were we distracting for 225 days? The Romanians? The Germans were supplied via a short route from Crimea, and our air force and navy supplied the bridgehead, and, I repeat, it was pointless. More soldiers died there than during our attempts to break through the Blue Line.
    1. +1
      3 September 2026 15: 40
      Quote: Konnick
      So what was the point of this landing?

      To draw German forces away from the main front and potentially create a second line of attack to liberate Novorossiysk. The Germans even deployed the 4th Guards Airborne Division "from the other side" of the ridge to eliminate the bridgehead in Operation Neptune.
      In short, another "Nevsky Pyatachok".
      Quote: Konnick
      Who did we distract for 225 days? The Romanians?

      73rd Infantry Division (initially responsible for air defense in the Novorossiysk area), 125th Infantry Division and 4th Guards Guards Division.
      1. 0
        3 September 2026 15: 49
        For the period from 04/17/43 to 05/1/43
        255th Marine Brigade – up to 35% of personnel
        165 brigade – up to 35%
        176th Rifle Division – up to 45%
        83rd Marine Brigade – up to 20%
        8th Guards Brigade – losses are not indicated, but since it was at the site of the main attack, one can assume…
        51st Brigade – the backbone of the brigade was disabled during the fighting
        107th brigade – up to 40%
        290th NKVD Regiment – ​​losses not indicated

        Quote: Alexey RA
        To eliminate the bridgehead in Operation Neptune, the Germans even deployed the 4th Guards Airborne Division "from the other side" of the ridge.


        And they no longer sought to dislodge us from the bridgehead, but decided to "simply" hold us. While our elite units could have fought in key areas, they were sitting in trenches under fire, surrounded by minefields. The goal of Operation Neptune was to push us away from the mountain and mine the flatlands.