Military Review

NATO aviation against Syrian C-300

493
NATO aviation against Syrian C-300



I hope this does not happen. However, if they are delivered to Syria, we know how to proceed.

- Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon

The ingenious designers of the S-300 family of anti-aircraft systems were a quarter of a century ahead of time - until now the “XNUMXth” guard of heaven is the most advanced anti-aircraft missile system in the world, before which the entire combat aviation NATO.

Time has confirmed the correctness of the technical solutions incorporated in C-300: the design of the complex turned out to be perfect, in terms of real combat conditions. Our scientists were the first to guess to place missiles in TPK (transport-launch containers) - sealed “cans”, in which ammunition (anti-aircraft missile + launch gas generator) can be stored for decades, ready to launch at any minute. "The key to start" - and the rocket leaves TPK, rushing up to meet its inevitable death; in a minute it will become a flash of blinding light, disappearing from the radar screens along with the enemy aircraft.

The second ingenious "trick" from the creators of the C-300 is a vertical launch: the anti-aircraft missile turns itself in the air and lies on the combat course. This scheme allows you to place the launcher on any suitable "patch" in the folds of the landscape, between buildings, in narrow gorges and hollows, protected from the effects of shock waves and means of destruction of the enemy. Unlike the C-300, the American Patriot anti-aircraft missile system has to lose valuable time by deploying a heavy launcher in the direction of the target. Due to the inclined launch, “Patriot” needs space and open spaces - the launcher is hampered by nearby houses, hills and trees.



The creators of the C-300 initially worked for the future, given the progress in countering air defense systems. It is no secret that radar signals are emitted with side branches - “lobes”. In modern electronic warfare, the enemy always tries to catch the “side lobes” of the main radio beam, thereby recognizing the frequency and mode of operation of the radar. Having received this information, it does not cost anything to “hammer” the radar by interference in the desired wavelength range.

The creators of the C-300 have foreseen this threat - the “side lobes” of the C-300 beam are minimized, which makes it extremely difficult to detect and classify the radar with a “three hundredth” anti-aircraft missile system. In addition, the C-300 had serious potential for adapting to jamming conditions and suppressing "Doppler noise." In the work of C-300, noise-resistant communication lines with automatic frequency tuning are used, there are “collective” work modes in which data obtained from different radars flow to a single command center of an anti-aircraft missile division. No matter how hard the enemy tries to jam the anti-aircraft defense, anti-aircraft gunners in any case will get a clear idea of ​​the air situation, summarizing the fragmentary information from several radars.

It is possible to work in the mode of triangulation - simultaneous highlighting of the target with two radars; Knowing the exact distance (base) between the radar and the angles / azimuths at which they observe the target, you can build a triangle at the base of which is the base, at the apex there is a spotted target. After a moment, the computer will accurately determine the coordinates of the target. A very ancient and reliable way to calculate, for example, the location of the jammer.

As for the means of destruction C-300 - the topic is beaten and obvious. Meeting with a rocket that cuts the sky at six speeds of sound is a guaranteed end for any aerodynamic object created by human hands. Finally, the C-300 family of anti-aircraft missile systems is a whole set of detection tools, mobile launchers on wheeled and tracked chassis (not counting shipboard C-300F), Kung with auxiliary equipment and modules for maintaining combat duty.

The choice - two dozen samples of rocket ammunition medium, long and very long range; with conventional and "special" combat units, with active and semi-active homing heads.


C-300PMU-1

Disadvantages? They have any system. The list of deficiencies of C-300 usually consists of two factors:

The first is the bulkiness of the complex. There are complaints about its element base. As the old joke says: our microchips are the biggest microchips in the world!

The second drawback is in no way connected with the design of the air defense missile system - this is a common problem of all modern anti-aircraft missile systems associated with the fundamental laws of nature. Radio waves propagate in a strictly rectilinear way, and this causes problems with the detection of low-flying objects. For example, formidable claims about destroying targets at a distance of 400 km for the C-400 “Triumph” air defense system concern only targets in the upper stratosphere. At the same time, any “corncob”, flying over the very tops of the trees, can safely sneak up to the C-400 positions at a distance of a couple of tens of kilometers, while remaining invisible and completely invulnerable to the anti-aircraft missile complex (super-refraction and other rare atmospheric phenomena that increase the radar detection range, we will not consider).




The formula for calculating the horizon range (radio horizon), taking into account the height of the observer and the height of the observed object


The problem of radio horizon has two solutions:

The first is the issuance of target designation using external means of detection (airborne early warning aircraft, spacecraft), followed by firing anti-aircraft missiles on active homing. Alas, none of the modern air defense systems have such fantastic modes of operation.

The second solution is to increase the height of the antenna. To expand the "visibility zone" of the C-300 radar, a universal mobile tower 25 m in height has been created, transported by vehicle MAZ-537, as well as 39-meter two-section tower 40ВХNUMXМ, which, despite the enormous height, can be mounted on an unequipped position within two hours .

The combat capabilities of the complex are exceptionally great - it is no coincidence that our “Western partners” are so ragged about the mention of C-300. Nonetheless, it is naive to believe that the NATO members have been sitting with all their arms "with folded arms." There is a problem - there must be a solution. The American military industrial complex frantically sought a way out of the current situation, and proposed a number of very significant and effective means.

I invite readers to get acquainted with the NATO Air Force recruitment to overcome the powerful echelon air defense systems and make a prediction: does C-300 have a chance to protect the Syrian sky?

Gray Cardinal



About this plane is not to speak out loud. Let Discovery and Impact Force discuss the next fifth-generation fighter, but the existence of the Rivit Joint RC-135W should be hidden from the eyes of the general public. This is the secret of the US Air Force, the American trump card, without which it would be impossible to conduct modern wars.

So, get acquainted: Boeing RC-135W “Rivit Joint” is an aircraft of the SIGINT system (signal intelligence - radio intelligence), a key factor in overcoming enemy air defense. Barraging in the airspace of Turkey, Iraq and Israel, the RC-135W carefully “gropes” Syrian territory with its side antennas, identifying the sources of radio signals and their belonging to different systems. It is the long-nosed, unsightly plane “Rivit Joint” that will draw the radio engineering map of the enemy air defense system, will find in it weak spots and vulnerabilities - corridors through which the air defense suppression groups will go.

Peleng ... radar of Damascus International Airport ... azimuth 03, an unknown source of radiation, we launch a program to find compliance ... oh shit! This is a tin shield * of the Russian C-300 complex !!!

tin shield - the general designation of the radar for detecting targets at low and extremely low altitudes, adopted in NATO countries



RC-135 is based on the KC-135 air tanker, which, in turn, is based on the Boeing 707 airliner. The RC-135 reconnaissance family has been for more than half a century now. The RC-135W version of the Rivit Joint is currently in use - the entire 22 of the aircraft in the United States Air Force + three reconnaissance aircraft of the United Kingdom.

Also, for the electronic reconnaissance and identification of the positions of enemy air defense missiles, naval aircraft EP-3C "Aries" (a modification of the famous "Orion") and a number of special vehicles with indices "U", "R" and "E" can be involved. Combined with space reconnaissance satellites, the NATO command is able to obtain complete information about the state of the enemy’s air defense system.

Positions ZRK swaddled, what's next?

The “jammers” come into play. For example, EC-130H Compass Call - clumsy interference generator based on the Hercules C-130 military transport aircraft.



“Compass Call” does not even try to climb into the zone of action of enemy air defense, patrolling at a low altitude of a hundred kilometers from the air defense system positions, while regularly “breaking” the air with squalls of electronic discharges. The actions of the EU-130H adversely affect the work of the enemy’s electronic equipment - interference clog the communication lines, disrupting the coordination of enemy forces and creating additional problems for enemy air defense.
The number of EU-130H "Compass Call" in the ranks of the US Air Force - 14 units.

The location and type of air defense missile system has been established, the management is partially disorganized. It is time for a powerful strike on the enemy's air defense system.

Grumbler



Specialized electronic warfare aircraft EA-18G "Growler", created on the basis of the fighter-bomber F / A-18F "Super Hornet." The machine directly cover the air defense suppression groups.
The "growler" cruelly burns radio electronic noise, creating a fancy dance of winding lines and stripes on the screens of enemy radars. On board the EW aircraft, a complex of modern equipment capable of detecting and identifying sources of radio signals in real time mode, clogging the air with a continuous crack of electrical discharges.

But, no matter how cool the American EA-18G is, it’s too tough for him to “stick” into the C-300 air defense system. “Growler” prefers to do its dirty tricks at a distance, clogging the air with interference and firing at the identified positions of the air defense system with anti-radar AGM-88 HARM missiles.

Growler is an American aviation insurance policy. Without his support, it would be problematic to “crush” enemy air defense. Even after destroying the positions of the air defense missile system, flying over enemy territory is not complete without accompanying these machines - the EW complex and drop traps aboard the EA-18G can cover attack groups from any existing ground-to-air facilities - from the powerful C-300 to "Primitive" portable SAM "Igla" or "Stinger" in the entire frequency range of the wave spectrum.
EA-90G Growler 18 aircraft to date, all vehicles attributed to the Navy and Marine Corps.



In addition to the EW, rocket weapons air-to-air missiles and anti-radar missiles, the EA-18G is capable of carrying conventional strike weapons - if a frightened SA-NG operator turns off the radar, the “Growler” strikes with guided bombs.
Speaking of anti-radar missiles:

Wild Lasky. AGM-88 High-Speed ​​Anti-Radar Missle

Actually, this is what all previous gestures were made for - the culmination of the scenario of suppressing the enemy air defense system. The case came rockets, targeting sources of radar radiation. The calculation is simple - using HARMs, radar detect and illuminate targets, after which the C-300 division will turn into a pile of useless iron.

Anti-radar missiles are not very selective. HARMs beat everything - from FM radio station antennas to microwaves and satellite phones. To achieve the desired effect, they are launched in volleys of several thousand pieces, literally “sowing” the area adjacent to the identified positions of the air defense missile system - as a result, several pieces will surely explode near the radar, disabling the anti-aircraft missile system.


AGM-88 HARM on the wing pole of the multipurpose fighter F / A-18C

HARM is dangerous and cunning - even if the operator, sensing something was wrong, will have time to turn off the radar installation, HARM will remember the last coordinates of the radiation source and continue on its way towards the target, being guided by onboard INS data.

When it came to launching HARMs, it was no time for jokes and any decency. Everyone who is capable of holding a weapon in their hands is involved in massive attacks: F / A-18 Hornet, EA-18G Growler, F-16 Fighting Falken, Tornado ... rockets are launched from the maximum possible distance, trying to the minimum appear on the eyes of the calculations of the air defense system. Entering the area of ​​attack at extremely low altitude — a slide — shooting HARMs on homing — caring for a radio horizon, to a low altitude. The slightest delay threatens death.

Especially worth noting F-16CJ - A special modification of "Falken", going to the tip of the attack. F-16CJ are in service with the squadrons "Wild Lasky" - combat groups specializing in the suppression of air defense systems. It is these small, nimble (and cheap - not to be pitiful) cars, under the cover of the “Groolers”, are the first to intrude into the airspace of the country *, giving the calculations of the air defense system a rather dubious choice - to receive HARM as a gift or turn off the radar, turning into a target for bombs with laser guided. However, the Wild Laska themselves are no laughing matter - the guys are seriously at risk and can turn from hunters into game at any time, unexpectedly hit by an air defense missile system.
* first, after sea-based cruise missiles


F-16CJ of the unit "Wild Lasky"

In reality, the situation is much tougher - according to the US Air Force, the cost of one 360-kilogram HARM is overwhelming for $ 300 thousand - the thousands of volleys of such missiles can ruin the US budget by a billion dollars. Very expensive toy.

Blow from the sea. BGM-109 "Tomahawk"



Tactical cruise missile designed to destroy important ground targets (command centers, communications centers, radar stations and anti-aircraft missile systems, airfields, hangars and caponiers, military bases, warehouses, etc. strategic facilities) at a distance of up to 1600 km. Based on the facts of the use of the Topors, the massive launch of these flying suicide robots leads to a noticeable destabilization of the armed forces of the enemy.

The jokes about the subsonic flight speed of the BGM-109 usually go sideways to frivolous jokers - Tomahawk is really not too fast (the cruising speed is ≈ 850 km / h, with a slight increase in the last leg of the flight due to fuel production, see the Zhukovsky formula). This creates certain problems when planning operations - rockets take time to reach their targets. But this does not affect the vulnerability of air defense weapons - the "Ax", in any case, is too low to be in view of the radars of the air defense system. Stealth - the main "feature" of the cruise missile BGM-109.

Troubles can arise only when attacking well-defended targets, while overcoming the anti-aircraft frontiers of the Pantsirey and Tungusok. Well, here, as the map will fall ... Official statistics on the use of Tomahawks (NATO aggression against Yugoslavia, 1999 year) - 700 launched cruise missiles, shot down by 40 (less than 6%), another 17 missiles were obstructed.


Vertical launch installations on the American destroyer. In each can be "Tomahawk"

It is worth noting that the modern modification of Tomahawk Block IV was able to patrol in the air in standby mode and learned how to destroy moving targets.

Backstab. Helicopter AH-64D "Apache Longbow"



And where does this crank go ?! - the amazed reader will exclaim, and it will appear wrong.
In winter, 1991, during Operation Desert Storm, Apache helicopters, flying through the night mist and impenetrable smoke from burning oil wells, “laid” four corridors in the Iraqi air defense system overnight — from the border all the way to Baghdad.

Suppression of air defense systems is one of the main functions of the Apache. To do this, the rotary-wing machine has everything you need: ultra-low flight altitude, the ability to hide in the folds of the relief - the radar above the rotor hub allows you to hide behind any obstacle (hill, structure, forest belt), “exposing” only the radar antenna tip. Finally, four packs of guided Hellfire missiles on the underwing pylons are enough to turn the position of the air defense system into burning ruins.

Also, in addition to attack helicopters, the role of unmanned aerial vehicles. Slow, clumsy and weak - however, these "dragonflies" have one important feature - they are desperately brave. The drone, without blinking an eye, will pass there, where the bravest of the kamikaze will be afraid to go. The UAV has nothing to lose, it is able to shove "in the forehead" on the position of the air defense missile system, showing complete contempt for death. A good tool in combination with the other aspects listed above (Tomahawks, Growlers and others. Products gloomy American genius).

Finally, the threat sounded this week from the mouth of the Israeli Defense Minister: "If they are delivered to Syria, we know how to act."

Moshe Ya'alon is not bluffing. Israel is known for its tough actions for its own national security. Shacket special forces raid on an Egyptian airfield (1966 year), abduction of the Soviet radar (Operation Rooster-53, Egypt, 1969 year), bombing of the Iraqi nuclear center Ozirak (1981 year), bombing of a weapons factory in Sudan (October 2012) ), recent attacks on Syria ... Israel spits on all the norms of international law, unceremoniously invading the airspace of other states, and does not hesitate to use a weapon to kill.

It is possible that the Israelis will try to destroy Russian anti-aircraft missile systems even before they are deployed in combat positions.

The Battle of Titans

If all six ordered anti-aircraft missile systems are delivered to Syria, this will become a weak hope for a peaceful resolution of the Syrian conflict; NATO will falter and will not dare to launch a military invasion operation. The Pentagon has serious reasons to reflect on their behavior and once again weigh all possible risks in the attack on Syria. Even if the operation goes smoothly and the US Air Force’s air armada can crush six Syrian C-300s, with only a few casualties in the aircraft, even in this case, the Pentagon will have considerable financial difficulties associated with the monstrous overruns of HARM missiles and other ammunition needed to suppress the super-systems C-300.

http://pvo.guns.ru/
http://www.af.mil/
http://airwar.ru/
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  1. Professor
    Professor 1 June 2013 09: 27 New
    -11
    Thank you for the article. good
    It would be interesting if not only the United States funds were added to the description, but also NATO and the IDF.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 10: 24 New
          49
          Quote: atalef
          So NATO can frolic in the sky of Syria?

          Of course it can - this is a question of the funds that will be spent on the level of training of specialists from both sides, as well as on what costs they are ready to go.
          Syria clearly does not claim to be a superpower.
          And the counter question:
          Is a single element presented in the article capable of resisting the S-300 without the help of others?
          1. Atrix
            Atrix 1 June 2013 11: 09 New
            +3
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            And the counter question:
            Is a single element presented in the article capable of resisting the S-300 without the help of others?

            Complex overcoming enemy air defense. I think they can also individually aircraft with HARM missiles, but this greatly increases the likelihood of an airplane crash.
            1. Refund_SSSR
              Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 11: 29 New
              34
              Well, suppose, and now remember about Torah, Wasps, Armor and other means of the zoo. So is a single complex able to withstand different systems on equal terms?
              Naturally not, so now think about the sanity of the article and its discussion.
              As a review - on a weak C grade.
              As a comparison of forces - and it’s not good to put it, since all the air defense systems of Syria have not been considered.
              In general, something like this ... met with letters and at home.
              1. Atrix
                Atrix 1 June 2013 11: 51 New
                +8
                Quote: We refund_SSSR
                Well, suppose, and now remember about Torah, Wasps, Armor and other means of the zoo. So is a single complex able to withstand different systems on equal terms?
                Naturally not, so now think about the sanity of the article and its discussion.
                As a review - on a weak C grade.
                As a comparison of forces - and it’s not good to put it, since all the air defense systems of Syria have not been considered.
                In general, something like this ... met with letters and at home.

                And where did you see that they will not apply a comprehensive solution? On the contrary, they will use all means to overcome enemy air defense, and even those that you and I will never see or recognize.
                1. Refund_SSSR
                  Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 12: 32 New
                  13
                  Quote: Atrix
                  And where did you see that they will not apply a comprehensive solution?

                  Well, the author of the article bothered to contrast one complex with the entire variety of anti-aircraft defense means, forgetting about other systems.
                  hi
                  1. Atrix
                    Atrix 1 June 2013 12: 39 New
                    +6
                    Quote: We refund_SSSR
                    Quote: Atrix
                    And where did you see that they will not apply a comprehensive solution?

                    Well, the author of the article bothered to contrast one complex with the entire variety of anti-aircraft defense means, forgetting about other systems.
                    hi

                    The author of the article indicated to the people who painted here that the S-300 would be shot down by any plane, and Israel and NATO have no chance to overcome this complex. And what other systems does Syria have that will operate in the S-300 complex? Long-range detection aircraft or can spy satellites hang in space? Or are you talking about the vaunted Shell? So, after all, as test comparisons with a really worthwhile system show, Top showed to put it mildly dicky and not responding to the demands that his developers put before him. Here, name your version of the development of the situation and how do you see the counteraction to all the means indicated by the author will be set against Syria.
                    1. Rus2012
                      Rus2012 1 June 2013 13: 55 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Atrix
                      And what other systems does Syria have that will operate in the C-300 complex? Long-range detection aircraft or can spy satellites hang in space?

                      Dear, do you know for sure that they are not there? Share ... :)
                    2. Refund_SSSR
                      Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 17: 51 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Atrix
                      Here, name your version of the development of the situation and how do you see the counteraction to all the means indicated by the author will be set against Syria.

                      I did not say that Syria is able to withstand the NATO bloc, moreover, I called a similar idea itself stupidity * (* I would call it as I think - would be banned, the wording would be too harsh).
                      Quote: Atrix
                      The author of the article indicated to the people who painted here that the S-300 would be shot down by any plane, and Israel and NATO have no chance to overcome this complex.

                      There are a lot of things to say and fantasize, and for every such sedition, should such creativity be pulled from oneself?
                      Quote: Atrix
                      And what other systems does Syria have that will operate in the S-300 complex?

                      They say even in Google there is an answer to the question “Syria’s air defense systems,” and according to the same data, in Syria, by the way the S-300s didn’t exist there, a lot of rubbish and some quite serious samples (including Cuba, Vega, Osa, recent Shells, etc.), but at least they are there and since this is a review and comparison of forces, a similar fact must have been reflected.
              2. Rus2012
                Rus2012 1 June 2013 13: 52 New
                +3
                Quote: We refund_SSSR

                As a review - on a weak C grade.
                As a comparison of forces - and it’s not good to put it, since all the air defense systems of Syria have not been considered.
                In general, something like this ... met with letters and at home.


                Dear colleague, I do not think that you would like to disclose in the article the construction system and organization scheme of Syrian air defense ...
                Like gritso, not only with bread alone, thinks - there are other means and forces there, but some
                1. smprofi
                  smprofi 1 June 2013 14: 46 New
                  +9
                  Quote: Rus2012
                  Dear colleague, I do not think that you would like to disclose in the article the construction system and organization scheme of Syrian air defense ...
                  Like gritso, not only with bread alone, thinks - there are other means and forces there, but some




                  Dark red, S -75 (NATO classification, SA-2)
                  Turquoise, S. -125 (NATO classification, SA-3)
                  Pink, S. -200 (NATO classification, SA-5)
                  Green, 2K12 Cube (NATO classification, SA-6)


                  as for the "spy satellites"
                  Quote: Rus2012
                  Do you know for sure that they are not? Share it.

                  you need to watch less Hollywood products and sacredly believe in satellites. back in the 91st, during the Desert Storm, the gringos bit their elbows, which they removed from the armament of the SR-71 Blackbird. Efficiency, if I may call it that, receiving information and its quality from satellites absolutely did not suit the gringo. It’s not without reason that UAVs are currently being developed and applied so intensively.

                  as for satellites and receiving pictures in more / less real time, this is only the future. DARPA is only developing a system to be able to get a picture of a given area in 90 minutes on request. and it’s not about television, but only about the photo. more details:
                  http://www.gizmag.com/darpa-disposable-satellite-swarm/21821/

                  Hollywood, of course, shows everything beautifully in action films, but the reality is completely different.
              3. VAF
                VAF 1 June 2013 14: 12 New
                0
                Quote: We refund_SSSR
                we remember about the Torah, Wasp, Shell, and other means of the zoo.


                I don’t think we’ll remember everything, otherwise it’s all ... "uropatriotism" will disappear completely recourse

                so read it, and then read your .. "conclusions" - I classify this, somewhere the level of "kindergarten", no more soldier

                During the "extreme" firing of the Russian self-propelled air defense system Osa-AK (SAM-8, equipped with missiles weighing 170 kg), Indian Air Force experts were again unhappy with its capabilities. crying

                It took 6 (!!!) missiles to be fired before a low-speed, non-maneuverable aerial target, in PMP, without the use of REP means, was shot down. belay

                This is not the first case (!!!!) when Russian weapons in service showed unsatisfactory characteristics. recourse
                It is known that these weapons are less reliable and efficient than their western competitors.
                It is clear that this is a fee for low cost and giving a bribe to officials who make decisions for military imports.

                SAM-8 SAM was adopted since the early 1970s, modernized several times.
                The reliability of the complex has been improved, but has not yet reached the level of comparable Western systems.
                The complex is based on a 6x6 wheeled armored vehicle, a crew of 5 people, equipment of 6 missiles in airtight containers. \
                The air defense system is capable of hitting targets at a range of 15 km and altitudes up to 12 km.

                1. smprofi
                  smprofi 1 June 2013 15: 04 New
                  14
                  Quote: vaf
                  Indian Air Force experts

                  To be honest, I wouldn’t really believe them. they have their own cockroaches in their head, starting from the desire to push through the domestic one to receive "gratitude" from the supplier in a larger amount ...
                  I agree that the Wasp is not a perfect SAM. but, I think, no worse than the "foreign counterparts" of classmates.
                  Again, in the current slovenliness, when instead of flying into space, rockets are brought into the vast oceans, I admit the idea that quality is now suffering. and in arms too.
                  Well, "a conditional adversary with a conventional missile is conditionally shot down" - yes. it is ideal. Yes, in reality, not every missile reaches its target. but nonetheless: gringos in Vietnam scornfully called the S-75 missiles “flying telegraph poles,” but when such a “pillar” just flew ahead at the heading, “glorious aces” put pressure on the bombing and left the combat course.
                  1. Ramses_IV
                    Ramses_IV 6 June 2013 08: 18 New
                    0
                    Quote: smprofi

                    To be honest, I wouldn’t really believe them. they have their own cockroaches in their head, starting from the desire to push through the domestic one to receive "gratitude" from the supplier in a larger amount ...

                    You can't argue with that ...
                    I remember they said that their raw new-made tank Arjun (or whatever it is?), Which does not even have active defense panels, "surpasses our T-90 (I quote them) in ALL respects." Lol
                2. Refund_SSSR
                  Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 17: 05 New
                  11
                  Quote: vaf
                  so read it, and then read your .. "conclusions" - I classify this, somewhere the level of "kindergarten", no more

                  Dear vaf, I won’t assume that you have already become confused and, on this account, that you simply inattentively read what I’m writing about.
                  Do a favor, re-read hi Hooray-patriotism is not there absolutely.
                  And where are the children's findings?
                  In that, a single complex is not able to withstand a wide range of simultaneously used means?
                  Or maybe question the words about the effectiveness of deeply layered systems?
                  Unclear.
                  Well, the Peveo complexes are messed up by the Racean ones, well, yes, they are sinful ... but the asashayna ones do not mess?
                  Allprasralipolymers?
                  And the praises that have not been torn apart fall into alumina, so now? Do not use either peveo or suppressants?
                  And remember the patriots?
                  And accidentally shot down Fe-117 brothers Slavs?
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 1 June 2013 17: 14 New
                    +5
                    Quote: We refund_SSSR
                    Dear vaf, I won’t assume that you have already lost your mind and, on this account, simply read inattentively what I’m writing about


                    In the morning I don’t get hangover and don’t drink in the mornings, so .... and they say to us .. "100 grams for calculation ... do not affect"!

                    I read it carefully, I will quote you again:"Naturally not, so now think about the sanity of the article and its discussion.
                    As a review - on a weak C grade.
                    As a comparison of forces - and it’s not good to put it, since all the air defense systems of Syria have not been considered.
                    In general, something like this ... met with letters and at home.


                    So, in my opinion, on the face or on the face ... obvious hatred and unwillingness to recognize the real strength of the opposing side!
                    And they can only do this ..... well, I already wrote about it (though I admit ... it’s harsh, but .. such a life is about the children's level) and " fellowpatriots "... who don’t see anything and don’t want to know anything .. well, they have such a task .. save the regime!
                    That's why I wrote such a conclusion!
                    I will be very glad that I was mistaken, but ..... reading your earlier, it seems that no! wink
                    1. Refund_SSSR
                      Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 17: 24 New
                      10
                      Quote: vaf
                      and unwillingness to recognize the real strength of the opposing side!

                      I do not like to poke the nose of people of respectful age .. It's a pity, but I have to:
                      Quote: We refund_SSSR
                      What for? if S-300 deliveries are designed to spoil life by a very impudent circumcised one, so that they do not feel very freely and without extra thoughts do not meddle on every occasion and without.
                      It’s stupid to even think about comparing the S-300 and NATO Air Force
                      ETOGES, how should one despise the entire military power of an entire bloc in order to even allow comparison with only six launchers of the same type?
                      _____
                      To counter the block, a deeply layered air defense system (ground and air forces of various types) is required in conjunction with airborne warning systems and radar systems supported by electronic warfare

                      Reread carefully soldier
                      Further read this:
                      Quote: We refund_SSSR
                      Quote: atalef
                      So NATO can frolic in the sky of Syria?

                      Of course it can - this is a question of the funds that will be spent on the level of training of specialists from both sides, as well as on what costs they are ready to go.
                      Syria clearly does not claim to be a superpower.
                      And the counter question:
                      Is a single element presented in the article capable of resisting the S-300 without the help of others?

                      Read it?
                      How did you say so? "unwillingness to recognize the real strength of the opposing side"? laughing I write off the nonsense ...
                      Be careful before offending a stranger with your superficial reading and carelessness.
                      1. Refund_SSSR
                        Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 17: 57 New
                        +3
                        Poking cons without a reasoned answer is very adult, yeah
                      2. VAF
                        VAF 1 June 2013 18: 13 New
                        +2
                        Quote: We refund_SSSR
                        Poking cons without a reasoned answer is very adult, yeah


                        Well, what do you have ... " fellowpatriots "for a bad habit ... immediately hang a" label "?
                        I still didn’t have time to answer you, but you’re trying to sew me on another charge request
                        I didn’t minus here and here to you + !, so that they would not be upset! wink
                      3. Refund_SSSR
                        Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 18: 23 New
                        +1
                        Why so pull everything on yourself? Not the navel of the land, I suppose.
                        Addressed to those who express their approval or not approval not by arguments, but by the “-” or “+” button.
                  2. VAF
                    VAF 1 June 2013 18: 10 New
                    0
                    Quote: We refund_SSSR
                    I do not like to poke the nose of people of respectful age .. It's a pity, but I have to


                    Oh how "love" fellow patriots ..to attempt "mess with the face on the table", but nothing comes out laughing

                    Why do you bring me those posts of yours. Which I was not going to dispute and even more so ... did not dispute? wink

                    Distort ... please, sir? lol
                    Quote: We refund_SSSR
                    Be careful before offending a stranger with your superficial reading and carelessness.


                    Once again, I did not dispute those posts that you cited, but replied to your specific post with your CONCLUSIONS!

                    With that which I soglasen always there + or .. pass by drinks
                    And once again, what I consider to be interesting and worthy of attention .. I read very carefully, but .... write off to something there .. this is your decision, I do not mind wink
                  3. Refund_SSSR
                    Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 18: 20 New
                    0
                    Quote: vaf
                    Once again, I did not dispute those posts that you cited, but replied to your specific post with your CONCLUSIONS!

                    No, bother to explain where I think your "did not want to recognize the real strength of the opposing side"?.
                    Hiding behind heaps of emoticons and meaningless phrases is not necessary.
                    Be a man and hold the answer for your sayings, albeit rash laughing
                  4. VAF
                    VAF 1 June 2013 18: 37 New
                    +3
                    Quote: We refund_SSSR
                    No, take the trouble to explain where, in your opinion, "I did not want to recognize the real strength of the opposing side" ?.


                    No, well, that’s even ... not funny.
                    After all, I already gave you your own quotes from your own posts ... or you "shoot" everything on the machine without reading and do not think, or maybe .. "homework of the company"

                    Once again, your quote: As a review - on a weak C grade.
                    As a comparison of forces - and it’s not good to put it, since all the air defense systems of Syria have not been considered.


                    What else is not clear to you .. or did you mean something else?
                  5. Refund_SSSR
                    Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 18: 43 New
                    +3
                    How are the quoted phrases related to the warring parties? If the text in bold refers to an assessment of the work of the author of the article?
                    And how are these phrases related to cheers-patriotism?
                    Open your mind, answer for the words, I just do not go to bed because of your humble person, although it's already almost two in the morning in the yard. laughing
                    So where did I underestimate the warring?
                    Or maybe the author also considered all available samples of Syrian air defense equipment? I didn’t notice? Well, they are obsolete, but are they there?
                    There is - and therefore worthy of at least being mentioned, since this is a juxtaposition of forces.
                    Which is exactly what I said in the above quotes, that there is no article as a comparison of forces, but as a review there are too many personal assessments, which is not good, hence the assessment is satisfactory and no more.
                    Moreover, these are my subjective assessments, and I did not ask for your approval and consent.
                    But not less than a word is not a sparrow .. so where did I underestimate the parties?
                  6. Refund_SSSR
                    Refund_SSSR 1 June 2013 19: 20 New
                    +1
                    I waited 40 minutes - no answer.
                    Doubting that I will wait from you adequate explanations - go to sleep.
                    Waf must be more modest, more modest ... You take too much on yourself, dear, I do not intend to endure insults and ridicule from anyone.
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 1 June 2013 22: 18 New
          -1
          Quote: vaf
          That's why I wrote such a conclusion!

          Quote: vaf
          I do not like to poke the nose of people of respectful age .. It's a pity, but I have to:

          Come on you! You still have a fight here. Write about the same thing! Reread the comments carefully! I completely agree with you. All this performance about C-300 has already gotten. How much can this heresy be uploaded to the site. Only full d.bi.ly can believe that our C-300 together with our BOD and BDK can oppose something to the strength of NATO! This is the salvation of our supreme rating! Then they will say that they did everything they could! It happened!
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 1 June 2013 23: 51 New
            10
            Quote: nycsson
            Only full d.bi.ly can believe that our S-300 together with our BOD and BDK can oppose something to the strength of NATO! This is the salvation of the rating of our supreme! Then they will say that they did everything they could! It happened!

            - That's right, Niksson! There is no need to meddle, NATO is still so strong that Syria cannot be protected! And Russia too - NATO is so strong! The proposal - give them all the oil, let NATO calm down, and obediently reduce to 15 lyam in the population, as the late Thatcher requested, her kingdom be heaven! And then NATO will come, it and the Libyan army, which was an example of strength, courage and super-equipment with the latest technology, just rolled out in just eight months, you and your Syria are good for holding on for a couple of weeks laughing
          2. Atrix
            Atrix 2 June 2013 00: 26 New
            +3
            Quote: aksakal
            Proposal - give them all the oil, let NATO calm down

            May I ask such a question? What is happening now? Oil, gas, timber, minerals do not give up for paper on printed in the United States?
          3. aksakal
            aksakal 2 June 2013 00: 42 New
            14
            Quote: Atrix
            What is happening now? Oil, gas, timber, minerals do not give up for paper on printed in the United States?
            - Atrix, the whole trouble is that you make the West strain and print pieces of paper for you, and this really makes NATU furious! Not good!
            And yet - most of all, NATU infuriates that in exchange for these pieces of paper you can (it infuriates me too am) third-party countries and even in the west have good real goods, and sometimes you even do that! Instead of after sale
            Quote: Atrix
            Oil, gas, forest, minerals

            - send all the proceeds again to the States, sometimes you buy some components for the products of the same T-platforms, and even the military industrial complex, and then, having completed it, you sell it all again, and again you have the audacity not to send the proceeds to the States ! am A must give away for free! - The states made it clear to you that very good deposits and fresh water reserves (the same Baikal) should belong to the whole world (that is, to the States), and not only to insolent 2% of the world's population! And not for the green, but just like that! It won’t work - you can buy something for the green ones, it won’t! Just give it back!
          4. old man54
            old man54 2 June 2013 02: 41 New
            0
            Have fun, thanks, "+"!
      2. nycsson
        nycsson 2 June 2013 14: 26 New
        -2
        Quote: aksakal
        - That's right, Niksson! There is no need to meddle, NATO is still so strong that Syria cannot be protected! And Russia too - NATO is so strong!

        I understand your mockery. Yes, today we cannot protect Syria, and if we "develop" the country in the same spirit, then Russia too!
        Quote: aksakal
        The proposal - give them all the oil, let it calm down NATO, and obediently reduce in the population to 15 lyamov, as the late Thatcher requested, the kingdom of heaven to her!

        But have we not given them all the oil? Our government fulfills this request! It is obvious!
        Quote: aksakal
        And then NATO will come, it and the Libyan army, which was an example of strength, courage and super-equipment with the latest technology, just rolled out in just eight months, you and your Syria are good for holding on for a couple of weeks

        They rolled out the Libyan army in a few hours!
  2. alexng
    alexng 2 June 2013 19: 37 New
    +6
    Dear vaf, have you ever wondered why Russian ships are already cruising there on an ongoing basis? Is it not for highlighting purposes? And the main air defense systems of Syria will be in the "air passive". After all, NATO will not work in Russian, it’s more expensive for itself. I think that they are working on situations from different angles. Of course, not everything is so smooth. There are certain flaws, but one thing is clear that for the Naglovtsev this sortie will not be an easy walk. We must also take into account the attitude of the fighters of the Syrian army - they protect their home, their homeland. I think that there these scum-baby carriers will meet many unexpected surprises. No matter how much we criticize each other here, they are preparing there from both sides, therefore I warn everyone and ourselves, too, against harsh statements. Real life is very different from virtual and all sorts of forecasts. It was beautiful on paper, but forgot about the ravines.
    1. atalef
      atalef 2 June 2013 20: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: alexneg
      . Real life is very different from virtual and all sorts of forecasts. It was beautiful on paper, but forgot about the ravines.

      Here I am about that. Actually there were 4 attacks of the Israeli Air Force on targets in Syria. The result is known.
    2. Babon
      Babon 3 June 2013 04: 21 New
      0
      And can the question be, have you served somewhere? What kind of avatar do you have? Are you hinting at something?
  3. faraon
    faraon 3 June 2013 01: 10 New
    0
    I can’t understand you, dear patriots. The civil war is going on in Syria and not in Russia for what ideals are you going to fight? Who are you extending a helping hand for? Why are public funds wasted? You and the states are just observers. Can you really not understand that everything what you do on both sides is a blood business. Syria itself will figure out who is right and who is to blame. And S-300 complexes will or will not do the weather. he needs a deeply echelted cover system and it is not in Syria. There are no specialists in it who can manage these complexes. And the equipment is in the hands of a wild piece of iron.
  4. Arkan
    Arkan 3 June 2013 01: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: faraon
    Syria itself will understand everything who is right and who is wrong.

    So, why didn’t Israel poke its unmeasured nose there.
  5. faraon
    faraon 3 June 2013 01: 29 New
    +2
    Yes, in fact, no one is bothering him there. Yes, and why, more than that, I’ll tell you that for Israel it would be better if Assad would rule the country. After all, 40 years after the armistice, there was no shot in the direction of Israel. But there is one thing. hizbol.Nobody encroaches on the sovereignty of Syria from Israel. Only everything possible is done to prevent weapons from reaching the terrorists, because it is a direct threat to Israel
  6. Arkan
    Arkan 3 June 2013 01: 53 New
    0
    Quote: faraon
    Yes, in fact, no one is bothering him there. Yes, and why, moreover, I will tell you that for Israel it would be better if Assad would rule the country. After all, 40 years after the armistice, no one shot in the direction of Israel was fired.

    So why not provoke neighbors who do not touch you.
    Quote: faraon
    Hizbol weapon supplies

    These, too, haven't bothered you for seven years now.
    Quote: faraon
    No one encroaches on the sovereignty of Syria from Israel

    The purpose of the last raid was not Iranian missiles at all, besides the air strike was synchronized in time with the Salafi attack. This has already been said more than once and more than once ... That after this the Jews talk (or hush up) - no one is interested in Moscow . I think so.
  7. faraon
    faraon 3 June 2013 02: 05 New
    +3
    And no one actually provokes her in Israeli hospitals being treated both by the opposition and by the Syrian army.
    Well, this is a big question. Missiles of both Iranian and Russian production are constantly flying from Lebanon. Go to the Isra.som Portal to keep abreast of events. I don’t know, the Russian media probably speak one-sidedly about this conflict, again go to the Russian language Israeli portal and you will see a picture from the other side
  8. Arkan
    Arkan 3 June 2013 02: 36 New
    0
    Quote: faraon
    Well this is a big question.

    Since when? A week has not passed before some of your compatriots boasted of the results of Cast Lead, among which was the absence of rocket attacks by Hezbollah.
    Quote: faraon
    again, go to the Russian-speaking Israeli portal and you will see a picture from the other side

    I go in and quite often - everything related to Israeli foreign policy is somewhat divorced from reality, and the “analysts” are so often mistaken (and this can be seen after a fairly short period) that I don’t understand how you can take them seriously. immediately branded as "left" ...
    A Russian aircraft carrier entered the Mediterranean Sea - I think he will cover the deployment of the complex, but I hope you should not hope for the 6th fleet. At least for now, Obama is president and Bibi is the prime minister ...
    Yes, Saudi Arabia also recalled the ambassador from Moscow - this is basically not important, but the situation is heating up ... I think Israel should change the prime minister (at least).
  9. faraon
    faraon 3 June 2013 02: 59 New
    +3
    Well, let’s say cast lead, it was not an indicator like a fire pillar, but they fulfilled the task set by Hamas. Here’s how Kmm’s problem was noticed.
    The Russian aircraft carrier is good, of course. Well, you yourself understand very well how they usually rattle their arms and this will end. Neither Russia nor the states intend to take part in the hostilities. So, outsiders are observers, or as they say, guarantors of stability in the region. called the Arab spring. Time goes on and nothing changes. Pay attention to Egypt. Before and after it will be the same with Syria. They will ruin the country, give loans, put cancer and scoop up cheap resources. Here you and all democracy. Remember 90 years. And who he was an adviser to Yeltsin. The same amers and what happened for 23 years now, Russia is scrambling out of this shit.
  10. Arkan
    Arkan 3 June 2013 03: 21 New
    0
    Well, tell all this to your prime minister, but why should I? smile
    Quote: faraon
    And what in the Union republics is generally devastation

    ))) Well, I don’t know, in Ukraine I don’t see much devastation, but you probably know better from Israel.
  • reichsmarshal
    reichsmarshal 1 June 2013 22: 21 New
    -10
    From an operational point of view, anti-aircraft defense is a defeatist strategy. The victory will be decided by aircraft and UAVs. This is not so much about Syria, but about the Russian Air Force / East Kazakhstan
    1. MG42
      MG42 2 June 2013 15: 52 New
      +6
      Quote: reichsmarshal
      From an operational point of view, anti-aircraft defense is a defeatist strategy

      It's not even funny ..
      Quote: reichsmarshal
      The victory will be decided by aircraft and UAVs.

      And why not immediately go directly to the ICBMs? One ICBM and no small country on the world map with its powerful sun ..
      1. reichsmarshal
        reichsmarshal 3 June 2013 22: 30 New
        -4
        Can you only troll? Nothing to argue? I declare that the strategy for missile defense and aviation of the 5th generation (PAK FA) - this drank dough! In 1973, the Israelis lost 63 aircraft from the actions of the Syrian and Egyptian air forces, and to prevent this from surfacing, they wrote them off to air defense systems (which, incidentally, were successfully suppressed). SAMs have never been an effective weapon. They are just a means of propaganda, but nothing more. PAK FA, like all manned aircraft, will become hopelessly obsolete after 2025, and strike and fighter drones with lasers and microwave guns will make manned aircraft "air targets." Raptors and Lightnings, except for export, will not go anywhere, since UAVs will solve their tasks. One can believe in fairy tales about the Iranian interception of a predecessor, but this is not applicable in a mass war.
      2. MG42
        MG42 3 June 2013 23: 54 New
        +2
        Quote: reichsmarshal
        Can you only troll? Nothing to argue?

        Again with a question to a question, ICBM will at least nothing at least cool the fervor in hot heads, Chancellor, sorry, Reich Marshal lol , one must be more modest ..
        Quote: reichsmarshal
        SAMs have never been an effective weapon. They are just a means of propaganda, but nothing more.

        Read about the Soviet c75 air defense missile system in Vietnam to get started ..
        Quote: reichsmarshal
        I declare that the strategy for missile defense and aviation of the 5th generation (PAK FA) - this drank dough!

        Modesty adorns a person and favorably sets off the mind; there is a downside ...
        Offer Israel to abandon the "iron dome", why this is necessary, because there are drones ...
      3. reichsmarshal
        reichsmarshal 5 June 2013 23: 41 New
        +1
        ICBMs are a political tool, a ... lloimator, if you will. You can continue to think that there are still people in our army who are capable of making decisions. I personally doubt it. Because none of the gold miners will risk a career for the sake of the motherland.
        S-75 air defense systems in Vietnamese shot down 700-800 aircraft. But their influence on the rule of Amer. aviation in the sky was zero - phantoms and B-52 attacked the positions of the troops of the DRV. The consumption of missiles was, according to Soviet data, 9-10 per one shot down (according to American data, all 20). Victory in Vietnam was achieved not in heaven, but on earth.
        The iron dome is nonsense, since its missiles are not at times, but orders of magnitude more expensive than the Kassams. But it is part of a cunning Jewish plan: the fact is that Jews do not want to end the Arabs, because then they themselves will not be needed by anyone in the Middle East. If the Jews destroy the Arabs (and they can, however, without drones), then NATO, which is vitally interested in the war on the BV, will declare Israel the axis of evil. The partisans in Palestine were created by Mossad, who are not very concerned about the sacrifices of both the Arabs and the Jews themselves. Israel was led on this path by its initially taken orientation toward the USA - they have nowhere to turn.
      4. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 6 June 2013 00: 09 New
        +3
        Quote: reichsmarshal
        Victory in Vietnam was achieved not in heaven, but on earth.

        Comrade ...
        With logic you are not good.
        USAF monstrous losses in equipment, pilots and cash
        , with scanty successes on earth, and were the main reason for the Yankees refusal to continue the military phase in Vietnam.
        Quote: reichsmarshal
        S-75 air defense systems shot down 700-800 aircraft in Vietnam

        Do you even know how many total Amer aircraft were shot down in the sky of Vietnam?
        And how much did air defense account for?
      5. reichsmarshal
        reichsmarshal 7 June 2013 22: 37 New
        +2
        In Vietnam, the USAF for military reasons lost 2700 aircraft and approx. 1 thousand helicopters. Of these, 700-800 aircraft were shot down by air defense systems, approx. 300 - fighters, and approx. 1700-1800 planes and all turntables - zentiny guns KS-19 and ZSU-57-2. The reasons for such high losses were, firstly, the cost of ... American pilots and commanders who did not count on the serious nature of Vietnam’s help from the USSR and China, and, accordingly, the Vietnamese’s capacity in the Air Force / Air Defense, and secondly, the terrain’s difficult terrain, with good camouflage conditions for air defense. But the air defense of the DRV could not disrupt the US Air Force’s support of the US ground forces from the air: bombs and missiles continued to pour in Vietnam.
        The refusal of the Americans from the war was due to its POLITICAL futility. After the Six Day War, any aggressive US actions against the DRV could lead to an attack by the USSR on Israel, and possibly on Germany. It was an exorbitant price for a victory in some kind of ... Vietnam, and it was impossible to defeat the partisans in a different way, then or now. Therefore, there was no exit other than "exit".
  • alexng
    alexng 4 June 2013 06: 40 New
    0
    During World War II, up to 90% of downed planes fell on anti-aircraft artillery, and only dry residue on fighter aircraft. So chatting is not to carry bags. Do UAVs fly in Iran?
    1. reichsmarshal
      reichsmarshal 5 June 2013 23: 24 New
      +1
      Excuse me, what planet are you from? wassat
    2. alexng
      alexng 6 June 2013 16: 40 New
      0
      Do you have other data? Just do not make references to Western liars.
    3. reichsmarshal
      reichsmarshal 7 June 2013 22: 16 New
      +1
      According to official data of the USSR Ministry of Defense, 55 thousand Luftwaffe planes were shot down, of which 44 thousand were fighter jets, 10 thousand were anti-aircraft guns, approx. 1 thousand - on the earth. The actual losses of the Luftwaffe amounted to 30 thousand aircraft, of which 27 thousand were shot down by fighters, 3 thousand anti-aircraft guns. Own combat losses of the Red Army Air Force amounted to 47 thousand aircraft of all types amounted to 33 thousand shot down by fighters, 12 thousand - anti-aircraft guns, and another 2 thousand - on the ground (not counting 55 thousand aircraft lost for technical and operational reasons, and also trite decommissioned to exhaust the resource of the motor). The combat losses of the US and British air forces amounted to 35 thousand aircraft (there is no detail for reasons, but during the raids of bomb carriers, losses from anti-aircraft guns did not exceed 4-5%, tactical aviation was also not afraid of anti-aircraft guns, since by 1944 most The 20 mm Erlikons had already been sent to the Eastern Front "to the infantry").
  • rolik
    rolik 1 June 2013 18: 47 New
    +9
    It took 6 (!!!) missiles to be fired before a low-speed, non-maneuverable aerial target, in PMU, without using REP means, was shot down.
    Excuse me, But here is an excerpt from an article about the testing of "Wasp" in India.
    During the last firing of the Russian self-propelled air defense system Osa-AK (SAM-8, equipped with missiles weighing 170 kg), Indian Air Force experts were again unhappy with its capabilities. It took three missiles to be fired before a low-speed aerial target was shot down, strategypage.com reports May 13.
    All the same, 3 rockets were needed, not 6 lol
    And besides, "Wasp", in my opinion, is the most budget option that the country buying it can afford. Hindus would have spent on Wasp AKM, you see, and the result would have been higher.
    Name - "Wasp" / "Wasp-AK" / "Wasp-AKM";
    Range of damage - 2..9 / 1,5..10 / 1,5..10 km;
    Height affected area - 0,05..5 / 0,025..5 / 0,025..5 km;
    The affected area by parameter is 2-6 / 2-6 / 2-6 km;
    The probability of hitting a fighter with one anti-aircraft guided missile 0,35..0,85 / 0,5..0,85 / 0,5..0,85;
    The maximum speed of the targeted targets is up to 420 / up to 500 / up to 500 m / s;
    Reaction time - 26..34 / 27..39 / 27..39 with
    The speed of the anti-aircraft guided missile - 500 m / s;
    Missile mass - 128 kg;
    The mass of the warhead - 15 kg;
    Deployment / collapse time - 3..5 min .;
    The number of target channels - 1;
    The number of anti-aircraft missiles on a combat vehicle - 4 / 6 / 6;
    Year of adoption - 1972 / 1975 / 1980.
  • nycsson
    nycsson 1 June 2013 22: 06 New
    -4
    Quote: vaf
    The air defense system is capable of hitting targets at a range of 15 km and altitudes up to 12 km.

    Hello! But what are we talking about? This is trash! They only throw off a cliff, and nothing more!
  • aksakal
    aksakal 1 June 2013 23: 42 New
    0
    Quote: vaf
    It is known that these weapons are less reliable and efficient than their western competitors.
    It is clear that this is a fee for low cost and giving a bribe to officials who make decisions for military imports.

    - Greetings, WAF! Well, finally one sober post laughing laughing , and then Uriyakalki all praise the Russian city .... laughing laughing How much can they peck that all that is created by Russian designers -
    Quote: vaf
    weapons are less reliable and efficient than their western competitors.
    It is clear that this is a fee for low cost and giving bribes to officials

    - and they all are "our best !, our best!". That's the more I read the professionals - you, the VAF, Mechanics, the more I am imbued with contempt for Russian weapons. After all, professionals will not tell a lie, the truth is the uterus, in contrast to the worms cut. So, rightly, Kazakhstan is listening to Russian professionals and is more and more inclined towards Western and Turkish manufacturers.
    I give you a plus, WAF! You are doing a very useful job, we are thinning out the rows of idiots! And in general, Kudrin is right - if you don’t upload such loot into this black hole called the military industrial complex, they still suck, it’s better to send it to the States, let the interest drop, and then it’s good.
    1. MG42
      MG42 2 June 2013 15: 56 New
      +4
      There are both American and Israeli "wacklers" such as air defense in the area to sow a thousand charms and 500 tomahawks yes
    2. smprofi
      smprofi 2 June 2013 19: 14 New
      -2
      Quote: aksakal
      all praise the Russian

      uh ... actually there is NOTHING Russian at the moment!
      there is Soviet. is it good, is it badly done, but it works.
      nothing has been done in "free" and "independent" Roisia
    3. Michelle
      Michelle 3 June 2013 23: 53 New
      +1
      And there is an opinion that Kazakhs are Martians. Well, why would they need a COSMODROM?
  • Botanologist
    Botanologist 2 June 2013 00: 52 New
    +5
    Quote: vaf
    It is known that these weapons are less reliable and efficient than their western competitors.


    The effectiveness of Wasp as a SAM from birth was ... not very brilliant. So what? The presence of C-300 will radically raise the price of the company "clear skies" from all democrats. And this is serious. Well, if you put in Tartus, at our base. And it will still be more serious.
  • Sirocco
    Sirocco 1 June 2013 15: 03 New
    +5
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    In general, something like this ... met with letters and at home.

    Not in the eyebrow but in the eye !!! You can not underestimate the enemy, but also overestimate not the same. It is enough to recall the war in Iraq, well, somehow it was not so beautiful and smooth everything was there, as it is written in the article. Take at least the famous US complexes Petriot, screwed up one hundred percent.
    An improved modification of the Patriot PAC-2 was used during the fighting in the Persian Gulf.
    During the Gulf War, American Patriot missiles were able to shoot down only 35 of the 98 obsolete Scud missiles launched by Iraqis. Thus, their combat effectiveness is only 36 percent, according to one of the American sources. To bring down one Scud, the Americans spent three or four Patriot missiles instead of one or two, as prescribed in the manual for their use, thereby making their effectiveness even lower.
    But what about Russia? It is known that one cannot understand it with the mind. In our country, of course, the best S-300 anti-aircraft missile system in the world has been created.
  • kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 1 June 2013 18: 39 New
    0
    I agree completely. The article is weak, does not reflect the true state of affairs. Well, who in their right mind would sell (or buy) the S-300 without means of cover?
  • aksakal
    aksakal 2 June 2013 00: 15 New
    +6
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    As a review - on a weak C grade.
    As a comparison of forces - and it’s not good to put it, since all the air defense systems of Syria have not been considered.
    In general, something like this ... met with letters and at home.

    - I don’t know, I liked the review. Prior to this, he believed that the amers fought with the help of Growler and the Apaches, then he found out about Comas call, and about Revive Joint. In principle, the outline of the actions of NATO troops to overcome air defense is outlined. This means that it is possible to develop a counteraction complex. The author identified the shortcomings of the S-300, in particular, the shortcomings in the element base.
    Of course, if the Syrians do not show imagination, they can not stand even the first massive blow.
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    To counter the block, a deeply layered air defense system (ground and air forces of various types) is required in conjunction with airborne warning systems and radar systems supported by electronic warfare
    - and here is what? They’ll break through anyway, if they are purely defensive. Need to attack in response. While the amers suppress anti-aircraft defense, their planes are involved to the maximum in this operation to the maximum, the planes are loaded with HARMs ... Why sit at this time and wait while your air defense systems are suppressing? Why not at this time to attack their aircraft carriers and airfields? This is the first.
    Secondly, the Syrians will have only six complexes and 144 missiles. And then for the money it goes almost to the lard, which is difficult for the Syrians in this situation. But they would still have to buy 300 rubber S-36s (apply no more than 6 pieces at a time), false emitters and good disguise. And with skillful work, even 6 complexes can well spoil your vaunted NATE life. Of course, I’m lagging around that, even after training, the Syrians will be able to creatively approach this matter there, somehow they don’t show much imagination even with bandits, everything is predictable for them - the tank left, the broads, left. Again he rolled up the boom, walked away. Where are the ambushes? Where is the purchase of night sights and night raids? But just a fact - with six complexes, NATE can ruin the whole game. Psychologically, a minefield is much harder for a soldier than being under bullets that whistle just around the temple. A hidden and unexplored air defense system somewhere in this area - for the pilot, the same unbearable test, they will not fly in that area ...
  • Good Ukraine
    Good Ukraine 2 June 2013 00: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Atrix
    Complex overcoming enemy air defense. I think they can also individually aircraft with HARM missiles, but this greatly increases the likelihood of an airplane crash.


    This is the case if C 300 will stand alone in the desert without the cover of Armor, beech, Shilok, etc.
    That is the problem for NATO and Israel, that working in a complex covering each other and disguising themselves, these systems will inflict decent damage on any aggressor.
    Remember how many years NATO destroyed the weak air defense system of Iraq. And only after the destruction of the air defense they climbed there. And that is not without problems.
    And if we take into account the presence of ships of the Russian Federation off the coast, which are not in vain rubbing there and conducting reconnaissance. = The conclusion suggests itself. Losses will be not small.
    + Yachts driving away the NATO fleet from the coast. Israel once ran into Soviet (RCC) missiles, so much so that the appetite was gone lightning fast.

    If you weren’t afraid of the C 300, it would be quiet. And so the stench is very strong.
    Fearfully. am
    1. Good Ukraine
      Good Ukraine 2 June 2013 01: 13 New
      +3
      drinks
      Knocked down or not knocked down ???

      You can be sure. - They will stuff a whole bunch. !!!
      We have already seen how the old USSR air defense systems shot down the most modern and most invisible, smartest and most expensive NATO aircraft in Yugoslavia.
      And where after that was F 117? - At the cemetery of irons? One missile destroyed all F 117 laughing No missile in the world has made such a successful hit. And you say C 300 old, they can’t laughing

      You can sleep peacefully the sky of Syria for NATO is a no-fly zone. laughing
      1. MG42
        MG42 2 June 2013 16: 05 New
        +1
        C300 will pay for itself and << profit >> will bring in the ratio the damage / costs incurred.
    2. Atrix
      Atrix 2 June 2013 01: 59 New
      0
      Quote: Good Ukraine
      Remember how many years NATO destroyed the weak air defense system of Iraq

      Don't you confuse anything? What years are we talking about?
      Operation Desert Storm, launched on January 17, 1991, was characterized by the massive use of aviation by the multinational forces (MNF) of the anti-Iraq coalition and its dominant role in the armed struggle. She actually became the main element of the allied striking power. When ground forces supported by aviation were deployed at the final stage of hostilities (February 24-28, this year), the enemy was already broken. Therefore, ground combat operations were fleeting in nature and were completed with minimal losses.

      The fighting began with an air offensive operation, consisting of seven massive air strikes and lasting 3 days. The construction of the first massive strike was standard and included the level of suppression of the air defense system and two shock levels with a force ratio of up to 30, 45 and 25 percent, respectively. of the total number of aircraft participating in the strike (about 600 units).

      In order to force Iraq’s air defense to join the work of the radar, in some cases special demonstration groups of aircraft (A-6, A-7, F / A-18) were used that had unmanned false targets (LC) AN / ADM-141 TALD . After launch, these unmanned vehicles imitated the flight of attack aircraft groups and provoked the intensification of the work of Iraqi air defense systems. In total, about 100 LC were consumed.
      1. Good Ukraine
        Good Ukraine 2 June 2013 15: 39 New
        0
        hi
        Quote: Atrix
        Are you confusing anything?
        What years are we talking about? Operation Desert Storm, launched on January 17, 1991, was characterized by the massive use of multinational aviation


        I understand. You probably went under the table then. But the “Desert Storm” in '91 was not an intervention in Iraq, and what kind of air defense in Kuwait can we talk about?
        Then, as you say, the Ministry of Taxes and Defense did not make a single strike on the territory of Iraq itself, because there was air defense. - the gut was thin.
        After the Desert Storm, a “no-fly zone” was established in Iraq between two parallels and gradually over the years, Iraq’s air defense was methodically destroyed. Only after the destruction of the country's air defense, an excuse was found (supposedly the presence of WMDs (weapons of mass destruction)) and the intervention in Iraq began.

        Read the story carefully. hi
        1. reichsmarshal
          reichsmarshal 3 June 2013 22: 44 New
          -3
          Iraq’s air defense in 1991 was successfully defeated, although the loss of aviation was deliberately understated by both sides (moreover, the United States did not tell about all the downed Iraqi cars, and the Iraqis - about the American). The attack on Iraq in 2003 was carried out because at that moment the Saddam regime was not needed by anyone in Iraq (no one wants to return to Iraq today), and conditions were created for the rapid collapse (namely, FALLING, not destruction) of this colossus on clay feet. The defeat of Iraq in 2003 was essentially not - the Iraqi army simply refused to fight and went home. The bribery of the high Iraqi command was only a "starting point": the whole army simply dispersed, and then went to serve the Americans. Fallujah, the Mahdi Army - all this was later, when the Islamists who were not waiting for execution were released from the Saddam dungeons.
          The worst thing about all this is that the same scenario (realized in Libya) may well be implemented in Russia. It is not worth building illusions about the uniqueness of the "Russian soul" and the strength of "people's love" for the existing regime.
          1. Good Ukraine
            Good Ukraine 3 June 2013 23: 36 New
            0
            Quote: reichsmarshal
            the same scenario (realized in Libya) may well be implemented in Russia. It is not worth building illusions about the uniqueness of the "Russian soul" and the strength of "people's love" for the existing regime.


            And you love your homeland. Or have you not heard such a word?
            Better change the flag on the avatar - on a star-striped with pats.
            1. reichsmarshal
              reichsmarshal 5 June 2013 23: 49 New
              0
              I love my homeland very much, but I do not want to fight for the Eddoes invaders. The lordly lash of domestic production is not better than imported. I wrote my post because I know: SO EVERYTHING CAN BE! And I am very afraid of this. If your enemy is an encephalitis tick, then it is useless to arm yourself against it automatically. If the mass of people on Bolotnaya: what unites them? What do the right and the left have in common? Nothing. But if EVERYONE went to the protest, I can’t explain it with "CIA money." Soviet intelligence could not arrange the Red Revolution in Europe and the United States, and there is no need to prove that it did not want this! But we didn’t succeed - but they could! I urge you to think about why and draw conclusions for the future.
            2. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 5 June 2013 23: 59 New
              +4
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              If the mass of people on Bolotnaya: what unites them? What do the right and the left have in common? Nothing. But if EVERYONE went to the protest,

              IMMEDIATELY AND EVERYTHING ....
              But for me, all of these are DEPRECATED, SUFFERING FROM THE PIG'S LESSON AND SCUM.
              Bored them.
              A direct analogy with those Decembrists, who, having rubbed everything that moves, and having drunk everything that burns, threw the DAPPED COLUMN on Sennaya (what is the similarity to Bolotnaya in name and spirit !!!) with political demands.
            3. reichsmarshal
              reichsmarshal 7 June 2013 22: 58 New
              +1
              50 thousand pigs and bastards in only one Moscow? And someone else here on the site require me to "change the flag to star-strip with pace"? Yes, and bored all at the same time? Nonsense! The fact is that people simply want to become masters of their own lives, and to say that “out of the blue” they are waiting for complete crap is pointless, since it makes no sense for them to live in which they decide “for them”! The task of the state is to ensure that they, doing a useful thing, enjoy it and think that they decide everything themselves. Such a state is the United States. Every house has weapons there, and the state cannot rule by "riot police", since partisanism will be the answer. In Russia, the impossibility of armed confrontation between the ordinary people of state power will inevitably lead to the emergence of "foreign NGOs" and "swamp" - and our foreign enemies will benefit from this. And ultimately only state power is guilty.
              PS: but about the Decembrists, you are in vain! In all the shadows of the autocracy, they are the only thing to be proud of!
            4. Cynic
              Cynic 8 June 2013 13: 27 New
              +1
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              50 thousand pigs and bastards in only one Moscow?

              More, much more!
              What is the phrase pretty girl _ I want an orange revolution.
              Do you want a revolution? First go to Egypt, there is just a sobering up of such fighters for democracy in the country.
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              life is meaningless for them in which they decide "for them

              For example ?
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              The task of the state is to ensure that they, doing a useful thing, enjoy it and think that they decide everything themselves.

              You are absolutely right _ Thought that they themselves decide everything. Exactly what they thought! Meanwhile, what is thought and the real state of affairs are two big differences.
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              Such a state is the United States. Every house has weapons there, and the state cannot rule

              Not yet, yet. The Second Amendment to the US Constitution has long been squinted at. Yes, it hurts too fundamental. Therefore, you cannot undo the arap, preparation is needed. According to analysts, it’s being conducted, although it’s still at the PR level of the illegal use of weapons, but it’s legitimate, as it were!
              You believe ? I also doubt it!
            5. reichsmarshal
              reichsmarshal 8 June 2013 22: 37 New
              0
              Do you want a revolution? First go to Egypt

              Those who now live in Egypt, in Iraq, in Libya do not want the old to return (those who want do not live long). All these "democratic orange revolutions" became possible only because the state and the law should be born LOWER, proceeding from the people. The possession of weapons allowed the creation of the United States as a state of freedom. The state as an institution there is forced to rule people with the help of deception, the media, the economy, since it could not rule by force (as in Russia and the post-Stalin USSR). And no one, hear, NOBODY in the US will cancel the second amendment, since the ban on weapons will lead the United States to a civil war, such as the one in Syria. Only Russian mass media conduct public relations against weapons using examples of shooting in the USA, as they know that if ordinary Russian people have weapons, both the authorities and these media will come to an end. Decisive and merciless!
            6. Cynic
              Cynic 9 June 2013 13: 46 New
              0
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              if ordinary Russian people have weapons - both the authorities and these media will end. Decisive and merciless!

              There will not be this and there will be others.
              As you yourself put it
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              The state as an institution there is forced to rule people through deception, the media ...



              And where should the poor peasant go?
            7. reichsmarshal
              reichsmarshal 9 June 2013 21: 42 New
              0
              In the USA such “whites and reds that are robbing” would be waiting for bullets and grenades. Where the people have weapons, the state is forced to reckon with their opinion of the people. We do not have!
  • Cynic
    Cynic 6 June 2013 17: 46 New
    0
    Quote: reichsmarshal
    Soviet intelligence could not arrange the Red Revolution in Europe and the United States, and there is no need to prove that it did not want this!

    That of Europe after World War II ...
    And so she sat exactly!
    As for I couldn’t, there was NO TEAM. Remember the Czechoslovak events, who told you that this is not one of the first colored ones?
    So what ? A team arrived and Europe and the United States washed at a time! The whole country was taken under control, fell swoop!
    By the way, there are GDR guys wink
    When the Union started to fall apart, this one ... it’s just that the courage wasn’t enough to give the TEAM, or rather he was not going to do it, for this he existed.
    hi
  • reichsmarshal
    reichsmarshal 7 June 2013 23: 01 New
    0
    Europe sat on the pope exactly out of fear of Soviet tanks. Czechoslovakia is not an argument - in the 20th century it is no longer the same as in the XVth century. When the Union began to fall apart ... why was there no one who could act WITHOUT a team?
  • Cynic
    Cynic 8 June 2013 13: 41 New
    0
    Quote: reichsmarshal
    in the 20th century it is no longer the same as in the XVth century.

    Absolutely self-sufficient argument. laughing
    Quote: reichsmarshal
    and why there was no one who would act WITHOUT a team?

    No matter how trite it sounds, the conspiracy is the conspiracy.
    Recently, material on the flight of Rust and the consequences for the higher military command and not only here was posted on the site. And there was also about the rotation of the highest party nomenclature under Gorbi.
    So that is not so simple.
    hi
  • reichsmarshal
    reichsmarshal 8 June 2013 22: 29 New
    0
    a conspiracy he is a conspiracy

    Yeah, there never was any conspiracy. This is just politics. Those traitors who destroyed the Union, not from a parallel universe, came to us through a black hole on the Tunguska meteorite. These were our people, WE ourselves put them in power and in the Communist Party! Why did not one of the military men have the courage to organize a coup and throw off Humpback? and Yeltsin? They didn’t know what everything was going to? They knew! Even as they knew. But the hands were just short. If ordinary people want to restore the order that suits them personally (not at the level of their home, porch, block, village) - he will follow those who promise to give him such an opportunity. And who will be this promise - it does not matter! Fascist Zionists, but even the devil is bald!
  • Cynic
    Cynic 9 June 2013 14: 10 New
    0
    Quote: reichsmarshal
    Yeah, there never was any conspiracy. This is just politics.

    And then
    Nothing personal, just business

    Quote: reichsmarshal
    Why did not one of the military men have the courage to organize a coup and throw off Humpback? and Yeltsin? They didn’t know what everything was going to?

    This is now perfectly visible to us from 2013 and you in vain in the context of our exchange of views unite Gorbi and EBN.
    Look EBN came to the Russian Olympus as an alternative to Gorbi and I think it could not have happened without the support of the military, well, at least Alpha, which was later thanked! laughing
    With the entry into power of the EBN, who then, then, could have suggested such a development of events!

    The euphoria of democratic freedoms.
    Some of them still haven’t gotten a buzz about it, they don’t want to remember about the offspring from it!
    It has long been said
    The romantics conceive every revolution, the zealots carry out, and the inveterate villains take advantage of it.

    Call at least one exception, there are none!
    Quote: reichsmarshal
    he will go after those who promise to give him such an opportunity.

    So he goes!
    Here we have a bribe taker in the region, not creatively, a corrupt official, served his sentence, suffered a defeat in his rights and again went to the head of the district!
    Have chosen!
    Now there is a noise in power structures _ How? Can not be ! Understand !!
    And they didn’t know.
    What do you think he promised the voters?
    I think it's time to stop the discussion, I envy your optimism.
    drinks
  • reichsmarshal
    reichsmarshal 9 June 2013 21: 39 New
    0
    Firstly, the consequences of the actions of the EBN were foreseen by the military from the very beginning (I do not consider them to be idiots: they know about the events before they happen). EBN is hated not so much because he ... missed the honor of the Motherland, but because he, along with this, did not give the freedom that he promised. We had NO democracy in the dashing 90s! Democracy and freedom are possible only in a society where every house has an arsenal (as with the USA). Since only its presence provides the opportunity to bring to justice the power structures (which in essence is political freedom). Therefore, we had freedom and democracy in only one region - in Chechnya (and, well ... are they fighting for it like that? Even while fighting each other).
    About the revolution: our bones with you will rot in the earth, and the revolution in the world will continue, AND LET WILL BE SO, BECAUSE IT'S GOOD!
    About a corrupt official: answer a simple question: what, or rather, who is stopping us, ordinary people, from dealing with this thief?
  • SASCHAmIXEEW
    SASCHAmIXEEW 2 June 2013 11: 38 New
    0
    If it weren’t scary, primaries from different countries wouldn’t run to talk conversations with Putin !!!
  • Santa Fe
    1 June 2013 11: 26 New
    14
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    Is a single element presented in the article capable of resisting the S-300 without the help of others?

    Address this issue to the Russian Air Force, where they send a single Tu-22M3 "for reconnaissance"
    1. VAF
      VAF 1 June 2013 14: 16 New
      -3
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Address this issue to the Russian Air Force, where they send a single Tu-22M3 "for reconnaissance"


      Hi Oleg! I repeat, you are a huge BONUS! drinks
      The article is SUPER!
      Well, do not take into account the "statements" of "uriapatriots" in general, because firstly, the level of dilettantism, and secondly ... well, they can’t admit to themselves that we don’t have such a thing now, and in the old days it was ... not really!
      Howls and .. "spray" with saliva "... from" HOPELESS "! soldier
      1. Santa Fe
        1 June 2013 17: 05 New
        +7
        Quote: vaf
        Hi Oleg! I repeat, you are a huge BONUS!

        Good day, Sergey!

        I just wanted to say that NATO is not sitting on the ass and trying to solve problems. The Yankees already went head-on to the S-75 air defense system, lost about 1000 vehicles from the Vietnamese air defense missile system and realized that it wasn’t ice

        From here - the operational appearance of the RC-135, Shrikov, Wild Weasels and Praulers. Terribly pragmatic people live in the states, they are used to solving unsolvable problems and usually succeed in this.

        We have been holding onto the S-20 for the last 300 years and are listening to the statement of Ashurbeyli (the "creator" of the S-400, clarification for the general public):
        if the Chelyabinsk meteorite was in the zone of impact of the S-400, it would have been shot down!

        42 km / s, we have already discussed this topic, but the moral is serious: this person was developing the latest Russian air defense systems! Honestly, I have more confidence in young geniuses from MIT or Berkeley

        Here is what I wanted to say.

        ps / Russian Air Force need to learn from this issue, it’s worthless to go with a “fork on the tanks” (single Tu-22M in the air defense system)
        1. VAF
          VAF 1 June 2013 17: 33 New
          15
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          I just wanted to say that NATO is not sitting on the ass and trying to solve problems. The Yankees already went head-on to the S-75 air defense system, lost about 1000 vehicles from the Vietnamese air defense missile system and realized that it wasn’t ice


          Yes, you correctly said and wrote everything! +! good и drinks

          Well, people don’t want to study the “probable opponent” and they don’t want to and everything .. there may be several reasons .. I already wrote about it above and below!

          And anyway .. this topic ... "with supplies" is so "rotten" that ...

          Nobody wants to admit (because of mischief, because of ignorance, because of incompetence, because of ... the beloved slogan "beat the Jews save Russia", etc.) that on the current day the Israeli Air Force is the most ABLE and READY IN THE WORLD!
          The operational readiness for departure from the OSB is only 40 minutes, well, 30-50 minutes flight time to the launch line!
          And all ... there is neither Syrian air defense, nor Syrian aviation, well, along with armored and artillery units and formations!

          Or all " fellow patriots "naively believe that the IDF intelligence" works like ours on 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX, when it could not "detect" the redeployment and access to the borders of the Georgian city?
          You are mistaken, dear and very large!
          Even if they decide to deliver the S-300 systems, they will be unloaded, and then the Israelis will destroy it immediately so as not to hurt the Russian ships.
          I hope you don’t need to give examples (the last raid of the Israeli Air Force).
          So let's .. tie with the theme ... "if grandmother had one thing ... she would be grandfather"! soldier
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 05 New
            -6
            In fact, two other examples are more revealing here.

            The first is the destruction of the reactor, when interference covered Lebanon, Syria and northern Israel.
            The second is the removal of the secrecy bar from the Tamuz rocket, which was used by the special unit of Maglan, which specializes in such purposes. This means that something better has come about. But a little about the rocket itself.

            Developed in Israel by 80% Rafael Concern in conjunction with other companies in the early 90s of the last century. The decision to remove the secrecy stamp from Tamuz was made in early November 2010. The Israel Defense Forces press service said Rafael will introduce Spike NLOS to ASH 2010.
            In a real combat situation, the rocket was used in 2006 during the Second Lebanon War, and during the anti-terrorist operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip. During the Second Lebanon War, about 500 missiles were used.
            It is a multi-purpose multi-platform electro-optical missile system. Designed to destroy armored vehicles, protected objects (such as a bunker, bunker, bunker) and engineering structures, as well as surface targets and enemy personnel. It can be installed on air, sea, or land carriers. The rocket is made with spread wings according to the classic aerodynamic design. Spike NLOS can be guided by a UAV or satellite, has its own target fixation system and remote control is carried out using a two-way electron-optical image transmission system, which greatly expands the possibilities of its combat use. Missiles of this complex can be used both day and night. The compactness, speed of deployment and firepower of the complex make it possible to reduce the dependence of small units on artillery and air support and enable them to effectively deal with fortifications, tanks and other targets that are hardly vulnerable to conventional weapons.
            Electro-optical rocket control allows you to:
            Select a target after launch or change the target, for example to a more important one
            Receive real-time intelligence and target recognition
            Carry out the capture of the target of the GOS after the start, fire from closed positions
            Achieve extreme accuracy at maximum range.
            Minimize collateral damage and eliminate fire on your own.
            Makes the missile insensitive to radio-electronic and infrared jamming.
            A missile can be launched in three main modes - “Fire and Forget”, “Fire, Observe and Update” (Fire, Observe and Update), and “Fire and Steer”.
            The abbreviation used in the name of this rocket - NLOS stands for Non Line Of Sight which means ("Out of sight").
            The cost of one rocket for 2011 year is about 145 000 US dollars.
            The effective range of this missile is up to 25 kilometers. The weight of the rocket in the packaging container is 71 kilograms. The missile has an average speed on the trajectory: 130 — 180 m / s., Armor penetration up to 1000 mm of homogeneous steel armor. The complex can be used at temperatures from −32 to + 49 and is stored at temperatures from −45 to + 71.
            Depending on the task, the missile can be equipped with various types of warheads - cumulative, fragmentation, multifunctional (PBF and PBF / F).
            1. TUMAN
              TUMAN 2 June 2013 00: 05 New
              0
              Quote: Pimply
              In fact, two other examples are more revealing here.

              Well, you give, special on anti-aircraft systems, on small arms, but what I list, there is not enough page, and he also writes perverted tales! Not Pimple, but a storehouse of information, the best connoisseur of weapons and politics! Where do you get your Old? Ministry of Absorption of Israel, or where else, ahhhh?
            2. beard999
              beard999 2 June 2013 16: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: Pimply
              The first is the destruction of the reactor, when interference covered Lebanon, Syria and northern Israel.

              In my opinion, you don’t even understand what nonsense you are writing. For starters, you would consider an area that, in your opinion, was suppressed by interference ("Lebanon, Syria and the north of Israel") - 200 thousand. km square. And what is this interference? Noisy, quasi-continuous? Do you want to say that with “white noise”, as your fellow countryman “professor” likes to say, you covered 200000 km square? Do you believe in this fairy tale? Do you know the means of electronic warfare capable of covering such an area? Try to find an EW system (in any country and any type of basing) with a declared range of noise interference of more than 400 km. Go ahead.
              And the funny thing is, why, in principle, crush such an area, can you explain? Find on the map the Deir ez-Zor governorate, where the Al-Kibar object is located, and you will understand that it is about 500 km from the Israeli border. And according to the media, the planes bombed the object, invaded the airspace of Syria from Turkey. So what is the “hindrance” in Lebanon and the “north of Israel”? Can you clearly explain this?
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 2 June 2013 17: 14 New
                -2
                Read a little about the operation, and about the messages that came after it. Then we'll talk.
              2. beard999
                beard999 2 June 2013 20: 51 New
                +3
                Quote: Pimply
                Read about the operation a little

                And what exactly, do you offer me to read about the operation? I read the media reports. What other sources? Is there an official description of the operation? Did Israel officially recognize the bombing on September 6, 2007? Can you give links?
                I asked you a specific question: “Find an electronic warfare system (from any country and any type of base) with a declared range of noise interference of more than 400 km.” Well, how did you find it?
        2. O_RUS
          O_RUS 2 June 2013 01: 05 New
          +3
          Quote: vaf
          Nobody wants to admit (because of mischief, because of ignorance, because of incompetence, because of ... the beloved slogan "beat the Jews save Russia", etc.) that on the current day the Israeli Air Force is the most ABLE and READY IN THE WORLD!



          Quote: vaf
          Or do all the "fellow patriots" naively believe that the IDF intelligence "works like ours on 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX, when it could not" detect "the redeployment and access to the borders of the Georgian Towns?

          ... you read it and it becomes sad.
        3. SASCHAmIXEEW
          SASCHAmIXEEW 2 June 2013 11: 48 New
          +1
          If Israel is the most super-duper, you can’t imagine why your prime minister dangled to Putin?
      2. aksakal
        aksakal 2 June 2013 00: 26 New
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Honestly, I have more confidence in young geniuses from MIT or Berkeley
        - absolutely right! MAI, MSTU Bauman, Moscow State University - all sucks! My wife persuades everything to send the child there, I firmly stand -
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Massachusetts Technological or Berkeley

        I, of course, cannot afford it, and somehow some Boston terrorist acts are muddying with students from Massachusetts, but even Urumqi State University is already much cooler than the above-mentioned Russian sludge! I’m silent about Beijing and Shanghai! And cheaper! Damn, today is just a super day! I liked the forum today - finally, forum users began to open their eyes and see that there was nothing worthwhile in Russia! laughing The WAF noted that the weapon sucks, Niksson - that it is better to NATE to surrender right before the first shot, and you noted that Russian universities are just r ... Keep it up! You look, finally, and Russia will finally go the right way, stop treading the LGBT, and somehow it’s not democratic ... Yes, and NATO will be terribly offended by the LGBT, then it will be ... well!
        1. Santa Fe
          2 June 2013 14: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: aksakal
          MAI, MSTU Bauman, Moscow State University - all sucks!

          There is not enough MGIMO and the Moscow State University branch in Geneva (remember the case when majors in lamborghines rode and crushed the Swiss grandfather)

          of the above, respect is only Baumanka. Moscow State University is rotten through, MAI gobbled up the conditions of modern Russia.

          The respected aksakal is too primitive, on a populist approach to business - Bill and Miranada Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Syrozh Brin donate billions to the development of science. Our oligarchs buy football clubs, only one original Prokhorov, bought basketball New Jersey. That’s the whole difference between Russian and American support for science. And then there’s nothing to wonder where the Amer’s Groomers and Tomahawks come from.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 3 June 2013 00: 46 New
            +6
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Moscow State University is rotten through, MAI gobbled up the conditions of modern Russia.
            - can I see the links? Cornellsky against MAI, maybe even cooler, but somehow the result of the notorious fifth generation is not particularly impressive ... I judge not by the paid up reviews of the liberal "iksperds" and Westophiles, these "iksperds" about Cornellsky can tell not so, that there has long been a “perpetuum mobile” invented and lies under the cloth because of the unpreparedness of mankind, I just look at the result and advise you. The way their fifth generation flies, not really respecting their own pilots - and the conclusion is ready for me. While PAK FA flies without incident. Superjet buggy in the air conditioning? Dreamliner glitches abruptly, and that hefty Airbus - generally burns in the air! The conclusion - Cornellian - is stupidly no better than MAI. That's all! Believe idiots less, get less involved in PR, look more at the end result - you will be closer to the truth and will not look like you look now! The guys from Berkeley make him more trusted! laughing If in relation to Ashurbeyli, then of course, but it is better to read about this Ashurbeyli. There are suspicions that he does not have a higher education at all, he successfully married the not-so-beautiful daughter of Gendir Almaz-Antey, you can also understand that - the grandchildren already wanted not in a hem, but in a normal marriage. So he pulled his brother-in-law to where it should not be pulled, right up to the top. What does the government have to do with it? If in Russia the mass state of the brain is? What a mass state of the brain, such and power. If Sweet Sistine thinks that Russian universities suck, and there will be many such sistine suites, then tomorrow the Prime Minister will think the same way, and the President! Well, they will cover them, they say, in youth we will teach our youth! Who pushed you the pluses here? Forum users, oh ... or what? Knowingly suck to ply? Do you seriously think so and agree with that? am ?
      3. Michelle
        Michelle 4 June 2013 00: 08 New
        -1
        keep your eggs warm my friend
  • Tambov we ...
    Tambov we ... 1 June 2013 14: 40 New
    +6
    Are you stuck about the Tu-22? Yes, it was a stupid strong-willed bzik of our snickering generals, Worth such a shame. Now, I think, this will not happen. And there will not be such a freebie for you.
    1. VAF
      VAF 1 June 2013 15: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: Tambov we ...
      Yes, it was a stupid volitional freak of our snickering generals


      No, dear, unfortunately Oleg is right and this did not "jam"!

      And this is the tactics of YES when bombing enemy targets in operational-tactical depths!

      so since 1939 nothing has changed! Yes, and who to change it? Taburetkin and Tandem?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. VAF
          VAF 1 June 2013 15: 25 New
          +4
          Quote: ed65b
          Well, sit in their chair and change, so that it’s not like since 1939.


          I have already "commanded" my, and age .. not that!

          Quote: ed65b
          And not a balabol.


          You just don’t have to be rude, especially ... to the person .... who understands a little about this issue!

          Quote: ed65b
          And if you can’t and do not breed oohs and sighs.


          This is not "ooh" - "sighs", but a statement of the fact of today's being created by the current rulers! soldier
          1. ed65b
            ed65b 1 June 2013 19: 44 New
            0
            It is visible as commanded.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Joker
          Joker 1 June 2013 18: 16 New
          +7
          Well, sit in their chair and change so that it is not like with 1939. And not a balabol. And if you can’t and do not breed oohs and sighs.

          Edward, let us be more reserved.
      2. Michelle
        Michelle 4 June 2013 00: 26 New
        +3
        boy, in the Russian history of the Great commanders appear during the WAR
  • Arkan
    Arkan 1 June 2013 14: 49 New
    +1
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Address this issue to the Russian Air Force, where they send a single Tu-22M3 "for reconnaissance"

    Since the Vietnam War, this was the first case on the planet when modern aviation dealt with modern air defense ... Not a very good example.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 June 2013 17: 09 New
      -4
      1982 year, First Lebanese. The complexes that were in service with the Syrians were quite modern. 1986 - Libya (there, however, there was a low level of training of personnel). 1991 - Desert Storm (at that time Saddam had quite modern air defense).
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 1 June 2013 18: 28 New
        +8
        Quote: Pimply
        1982 year, First Lebanese. The complexes that were in service with the Syrians were quite modern.

        The development of the S-75 complex began in 1953 ... Can it be called modern in 1982?
        Quote: Pimply
        1991 - Desert Storm (at that time Saddam had quite modern air defense).

        Yeah, nowhere is more modern. I remember howling was behind one single “lost” Ukrainian “Chain Mail” no worse than now because of the Syrian S-300. We didn’t even start to bomb ourselves until we were convinced that there weren’t Chain Mail in Iraq.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 17 New
          -2
          The S-300 was developed in 1978. Can it be called modern?
          All these complexes were upgraded.

          Here is the exact number

          The Syrian Air Defense Forces group (OG) of Syria's air defense included 19 anti-aircraft missile brigades, including 11 of them of mixed composition, each of which included the S-75M, SA-75MK and S-125M air defense systems, and there are also 8 brigades equipped with the Kvadrat air defense system. The total number of divisions was: S-75M - 41, S-125M - 42, SA-75MK - 4, SAM "Square" - 41 divisions. The command posts of the brigades and the positions of the divisions were covered by small-caliber means, self-propelled anti-aircraft guns and MANPADS. In total, the grouping consisted of 47 branches of the Strela-2M MANPADS (Cobra), 51 ZSU-23-4 Shilka mounts and 47 small caliber batteries (37 mm and 57 mm anti-aircraft guns).

          The advanced grouping (that is, located in Lebanon) of the ZRV, according to the design of Operation Fed, consisted of three brigades of the same composition equipped with the Kvadrat air defense system (15 divisions in total) and one mixed brigade (two S-75M Volga divisions and two S-125M “Pechora” divisions). The deployment of the group was characterized by a "tight battle formation" with a length of 30 km along the front and 28 km in depth. Density of fire at low altitudes ranged from 3 to 5 rounds per minute. The group's radar support was provided mainly from autonomous reconnaissance divisions. The notification information from the higher air defense CPs was 6-8 minutes late. Combat fire control was organized from the command posts of the brigades on radio and radio relay communication channels. At the same time, there was no connection between the Zrd.

          In June 1982, the Kvadrat anti-aircraft missile brigade, consisting of 5 divisions, was additionally included in the group. In total, in the group for this period there were 20 divisions with the Kvadrat air defense system, 2 divisions with the S-75M air defense system (Volga) and 2 divisions with the S-125M air defense system (Pechora).

          Well, another S-200 was present.
      2. phantom359
        phantom359 1 June 2013 23: 14 New
        +1
        So what, they fought badly at 82m? The fact that combat planning is useless is the second question, and so your friends had great respect for Soviet-made air defense systems. And about Iraq at 91m, given the complete dominance in the air, they shot down, moreover, it was very good. This is considering what Arabs are warriors.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 2 June 2013 00: 03 New
          -8
          Well, if Israel is good. Syria ... In contrast to 1973, where Israeli aviation suffered heavy losses from the Syrians, the Syrian Air Force won no victories in 1982. Downed planes were recorded based on pilot reports. They did not have documentary evidence. The air defense was almost completely swept away. A new tactic worked.
          1. phantom359
            phantom359 3 June 2013 22: 28 New
            +1
            Of course, in Israel they didn’t record on the basis of pilot reports. And F15, shot down by the MiG25, which your boat picked up, and the Syrians only found a life vest? Yours yourself, gritting your teeth recognized. True, then, again 25, we shot down everyone, but we were not shot down. You know how to lie, especially with regard to combat losses.
      3. TUMAN
        TUMAN 2 June 2013 00: 51 New
        +6
        [quote = Pimpled]
        Tel Aviv, Hilton Beach May 31, 2013!
        Israel shows a new flag !!!
        1. aksakal
          aksakal 2 June 2013 01: 31 New
          +5
          Quote: TUMAN
          Tel Aviv, Hilton Beach May 31, 2013!
          Israel shows a new flag !!!

          - and how are they going to fight?
          - "Moysha, the Syrians are advancing!
          - Well, at least there are cute ones?
          - No!
          “Well then wow!”
          Well, the Syrians had a hope to recapture the Golan laughing
          Professor, Atalef, I know what you hear! come to the Hilton beach less often! Although it is useless ... laughing The country is small, for half a year all Israel will be spoiled laughing
          1. GG2012
            GG2012 2 June 2013 01: 39 New
            +2
            Quote: aksakal
            Professor, Atalef, Pimple, Rumata, Katsin, Tourist Breakfast, ..., I know what you hear!

            Quote: aksakal
            come to the Hilton beach less often!

            Quote: aksakal
            for half a year all Israel will be spoiled

            Late ... They spoiled!
            1. Apollo
              Apollo 2 June 2013 01: 46 New
              0
              Quote: GG2012
              Late ... They spoiled!


              so don't cross the line !!!
            2. aksakal
              aksakal 2 June 2013 02: 48 New
              0
              Quote: Apollon
              Do not cross the line !!!

              - you want to say “red line”? Me too, lovers of red lines laughing Apollo, dear, and that red line? If instead of a national flag on a very busy street you have a flag hanging, it’s not clear what kind of education laughing Did Israel really not deserve the States with its long and loyal service, although the puppeteers who moved Clinton's dolls with their lips when it broadcasts that protecting sexual minorities is the most important task of the United States? Apollo, what does the red line have to do with it? And how can we not laugh if you yourself are making fun of yourself? All the same, what to make hilarious faces and at the same time demand not to cross the red line laughing Stop it, Apollo, it’s not democracy anymore, it’s already sodom and Gomorrah
          2. TUMAN
            TUMAN 2 June 2013 02: 06 New
            +1
            [quote = GG2012] [/ quote]
            Late ... They spoiled! [/ Quote]
            You’re right, colleague, if you look at Pupyraty’s blog, I will agree with you! Looks have already run to scribble complaints, and you only stated a fact! laughing
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 2 June 2013 20: 24 New
          +2
          Can i ask you? What does your flood have to do with the topic of possible confrontation between Russian-made air defense systems and Western anti-aircraft defense systems.
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 2 June 2013 21: 34 New
            0
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            Can i ask you? What does your flood have to do with the topic of possible confrontation between Russian-made air defense systems and Western anti-aircraft defense systems.

            Although the question is not for me, I’ll probably answer - no one will, in this situation, seriously talk with a Jew on this topic. There is flood, and only flood! smile
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. beard999
      beard999 2 June 2013 16: 59 New
      +2
      Quote: Pimply
      1982 year, First Lebanese. The complexes that were in service with the Syrians were quite modern

      You are very mistaken. Take 1982. What did the Syrians have in the air defense: SA-75M Dvina (1957), S-75M Volga (export version of Volkhov, 1961), S-125 Pechora (export version of the S-125 Neva complex, 1961), Square (export version of the Cube complex, 1971), Strela-2 MANPADS (1967), Shilka ZSU (1964) . And what do you call “quite modern” here? But the real modern means of air defense in 1982 were: MANPADS "Igla-1" (1981), SAM "Tunguska" (1982), SAM "Strela-10M2" (1981), SAM "Osa- AKM "(1980), the Buk air defense system (1979), the S-300PT air defense system (1981), the MiG-31 interceptor fighter with the R-33 URBD (1981). And there was none of this in Syria. Similar to modern radars and electronic warfare.
      This applies even more to Desert Storm in 1991.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 2 June 2013 17: 15 New
        -6
        Are you describing the means that have just begun to come to the Soviet army, and even that - in single copies?
        1. beard999
          beard999 2 June 2013 21: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          you describe the means that just began to come to the Soviet army

          So what? It is these tools that are modern, and not what the Syrians had in 1982.
  • Gladiatir-zlo
    Gladiatir-zlo 2 June 2013 11: 25 New
    +1
    I completely agree with you, the author only partially dispelled the self-calming error of the pseudo strategists, "That there is one warrior in the field." Well, let’s mess with misconceptions. Only until they have come up with an impossible defense, the goal of any defense is to increase the cost of aggression to such a level that the aggressor renounces aggression. Although successful experiments have not been observed in the past, this is why the arms race.
  • alexng
    alexng 2 June 2013 19: 13 New
    +1
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    Is a single element presented in the article capable of resisting the S-300 without the help of others?


    And a pack of sophisticated macaques will not be able to, if the radar will work in a passive mode and catch targets from other non-emitting systems. That's why the NATO and Yankees are reprimanded from one piece of information that their potential “victim” already has the S-300, which from the victim turns into a knocker with pills for unbridled and impudent freaks.
  • si8452
    si8452 1 June 2013 12: 06 New
    +2
    There is no frolic, as the loss of aviation may well amount to a couple of dozen, and in this situation it is no longer fun. And the fact that the whole NATO + Israel armada theoretically can break through the Syrian air defense is beyond doubt, the whole question is in price. It is clear that the army of mercenaries is unlikely to take such losses. So Israel may be alone in this situation. And here, the alignment will be somewhat different.
  • dmitrich
    dmitrich 1 June 2013 15: 47 New
    +1
    he himself understood what he wrote?
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 1 June 2013 16: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: Dmitry
      he himself understood what he wrote?

      If you tell me, just look at the years of development of the air defense systems of those countries that bombed NATO ... The Israeli Air Force in Egypt is the only exception, in all other cases the USSR did not arm its allies with exactly what it armed itself. Or you can bring others examples?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 June 2013 17: 09 New
        -3
        Syria, in 1982
        1. Locksmith
          Locksmith 1 June 2013 19: 24 New
          +5
          Quote: Pimply
          Syria, in 1982

          I received modernized C75s, in the USSR it was already fully operational for several years. Since 300, just this year in spring a complex for Syria was shot in a spear, the entire range was forced by the C300, we were just figurines where we were not driving everywhere. wink
          The dofigisa worked at the training ground, sometimes three at a time C75-C125 and at the end as the apogee of C300 so that our missiles would not accidentally fly past the battlefield, and then the flyers were not in mourning and did not want to fly-launch targets, they said that some crazy people accidentally shot down something = obviously not ours shot.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 20 New
            -2
            I will give the exact list of their air defense above. At that time, these systems could be considered quite modern. That is, approximately like now S-300.

            In fact, what confused them was tactics and new circumstances. Hel ha-Avir actively worked on the mistakes, and he was not going to repeat the mistakes of 1973.
  • Suhov
    Suhov 1 June 2013 16: 00 New
    +5
    Quote: atalef
    so NATO can frolic in the sky of Syria?

    Frolic - definitely able, will not be bored.
    wassat
  • Van
    Van 1 June 2013 17: 21 New
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    In general, Muslims are circumcised the same way (so for reference 0 But Christians are not, so NATO can frolic in the sky of Syria?


    Do not worry comrades, in the not too distant future, most of the countries of the NATO bloc will become Muslim and then they will sing differently. lol
  • Simon
    Simon 1 June 2013 20: 35 New
    0
    This NATO playfulness can sideways cost him himself. Early rejoice.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Santa Fe
    1 June 2013 11: 27 New
    +4
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    ETOGES, how should one despise the entire military power of an entire bloc in order to even allow comparison with only six launchers of the same type?

    No, you need to break through the air defense systems with single Tu-22M3 “scouts”

    Preferably at medium altitudes, at cruising subsonic speed.
  • Army1
    Army1 1 June 2013 12: 12 New
    +7
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    To counter the block, a deeply layered air defense system (ground and air forces of various types) is required in conjunction with airborne warning systems and radar systems supported by electronic warfare

    Yes, that’s right! +, One with 300 is great, but in sudden inspections with 300 I shot down 9 out of 11 targets. This is a good result, given that it was stupidly taken and transported from the Moscow Region without an layered air defense system. With tori and shells that must protect three hundred and with 400, NATO pilots will come up with excuses, as in Vietnam, so as not to fly on a mission.
    There are complaints about its elemental base. As an old joke says: our microcircuits are the largest microcircuits in the world!

    The control tools include the Elbrus-90mikro CVC, it is true with the C 400, the 90nm chip is far from the very best, and the military does not need 22nm-11nm, this is more for the iPad, and the whole thing is programming.
    By the way, here's about intelligence:
    http://oko-planet.su/politik/politikarm/104377-rossiya-modernizirovala-radar-v-s
    irii.html
    + our companions. All in general, not bad, if Syria had a hundred new Megs or Sushki, and qualified pilots, operators, modern PTRK, then Israel really should be afraid.
    1. VAF
      VAF 1 June 2013 14: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Army1
      but on sudden checks with 300 he shot down 9 out of 11 goals. This is a good result.


      This is the .. terrible result, because the firing was conducted at the firing range, the position in the open area, the direction of flight and the flight time of the targets is known, there are no countermeasures of EW forces and means ... and ... two missiles by, then two carriers passed?
      Or these two carriers of PRR and "buried" is a complex!

      1. smprofi
        smprofi 1 June 2013 15: 18 New
        +4
        Quote: vaf
        This is the result ... terrible ...
        two rockets past

        Do not forget that the ideal weapon does not exist yet.
        according to the results of these exercises, the S-300 showed that it knocks down targets with a probability of 0,81. let's say this: the result is SOLID GOOD. and this applies to crews as well.
        according to TTX on the S-300V air defense system
        The probability of defeating the Lance missile of one 9M83 missile
        0,5 0,65 ...
        The probability of defeat of the plane of one missile 9M83
        0,7 0,9 ...
        The probability of damage to the head of the Pershing missile of one 9M82 SAM
        0,4 0,6 ...
        The probability of defeat missiles SREM one SAM 9M82
        0,5 0,7 ...

        © http://pvo.guns.ru/s300v/s300v_10.htm

        so everything is in tolerance
        1. VAF
          VAF 1 June 2013 15: 35 New
          +5
          Quote: smprofi
          Do not forget that the ideal weapon does not exist yet.


          Respected smprofi I’m trying to convey this THOUGHT to the “Uriapatriots” that the S-300 ... this is not a panacea, much less in the hands of the Syrians.
          Recently I "remembered" what they were ... "warriors"!
          Therefore, if all the same, as I deeply doubt, they will “put these complexes”, and I will also make Syrian calculations, then these are “discarded complexes” and lost money!

          My opinion based on ... well, in short, based bully if even the Israelis alone start against Syria, then ... everything will end in a few days (this is with a land operation), but if only by air, then one day will be enough - crushed like flies! soldier
          1. pogis
            pogis 1 June 2013 15: 44 New
            +1
            It's like in Iraq in 2003? Remember how it ended?
          2. smprofi
            smprofi 1 June 2013 16: 03 New
            +4
            Quote: vaf
            I’m trying to convey this THOUGHT to the “Uriapatriots” that the S-300 is not a panacea, much less in the hands of the Syrians.

            absolutely agree!
            I also told the same a little earlier. and cited as an example the 82nd year and the Bekaa valley where the Syrians drained the entire air defense system.
            Quote: vaf
            these are "discarded complexes" and lost money!

            thrown away is not our headache. although anti-advertising is not needed.
            but denyuzhki - no need to forgive! goodbye, enough!
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 1 June 2013 17: 12 New
              -2
              Quote: smprofi
              I also told the same a little earlier. and cited as an example the 82nd year and the Bekaa valley where the Syrians drained the entire air defense system.

              In fact, the surprise factor played here. 1982 - the first truly massive use of UAVs. At first, they didn’t even understand how and who was pointing at air defense systems.
              1. smprofi
                smprofi 1 June 2013 23: 31 New
                +7
                Quote: Pimply
                In fact, the surprise factor played here.

                respected Pimply, and who are you at VUS? if it `s not a secret.
                I have a VUS - SNR SAM "Circle". and on tactics we were just doing a debriefing of “flights” along Bekaa. and they said, "THEREFORE DO NOT DO IT!" and teachers - who himself dealt with Vietnam / the Middle East, who simply served with people, who went through all this. Yes, and my dad was a teacher at the Air Defense Academy in those days. just for tactics. after 28 years of military service.
                combat manuals, like traffic rules, are written in blood. You can, of course, improvise, but to fuck is more expensive for yourself.
                for several days in a row (more precisely, 3 times) the Israelis organized demonstration flights with the raising of almost all of their air forces. Arabs immediately included everything, preparing for the raid. and the Israelites tracked the coordinates of the radar. and these coordinates remained constant.
                and military air defense doesn’t work like that! does not stand still!
                Yes, and all at once, "turn on" is impossible!
                Well, when the Israelis were convinced that they had rams in front of them, they struck.
                they didn’t tell us about UAVs. They said that the Banabaks first made a claim that they said "the technique is bad."
                only now ... on the wreckage of the Kvadrat air defense system (on which the Soviet "advisers" successfully shot down in the 73rd, I personally knew 2) not a single "noble" drop of Arab blood was found. when the apricots realized that a real raid was beginning, they simply ran away.
                everything.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 2 June 2013 00: 18 New
                  0
                  I am not an air defense officer, all my specialties are infantry.
                  If you translate from Hebrew: fighter-07, medic 07 (position as company officer), mortars 52, 60, 81, RPG-7, second number, and a few other things.

                  But I’m also an analyst who works a lot and worked with documents in several languages, and accordingly, when I study topics, I always read studies and monographs related to it, compare, and single out the most important points. Plus I have a fairly wide circle of friends.

                  In 1973, the Syrian Air Force and Air Defense worked very actively. Were all of them Soviet advisers?
                  http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/history/yom-kippur-war/iaf-airmen-losses/
                  Here, for example, it is written in detail who and what died.

                  In 1982, a new tactic was applied. The massive use of UAVs is noted by several sources at once, and the fact that they were simply not paid attention to at first was noted in the memoirs by several Soviet specialists.

                  I do not think that it is worth blaming everything on the unpreparedness of the Syrians. Although this cannot be denied.
                  1. TUMAN
                    TUMAN 2 June 2013 00: 39 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Pimply
                    I am not an air defense officer, all my specialties are infantry. If you translate from Hebrew: fighter-07, medic 07 (position as company officer), mortars 52, 60, 81, RPG-7, second number, and a few other things.

                    Yes, we know, we know, agent 007, plus a military medic selling haloperidol, part-time poet of perverse tales. Yes, I almost forgot to beat it, the artist still. Let me ask you something. What inspires you to paint?
                  2. aksakal
                    aksakal 2 June 2013 01: 13 New
                    +9
                    Partly a physician, partly an analyst ... It's like partly a physician, partly a lawyer - in fact, "the veterinarian has served time." laughing In 1982, UAVs were not so common. SM pro is right - you can’t work like the Arabs did! The part in which I served - when in 1985 I went to the DMB with her, she just switched from the S-200 (I served on it) to the S-300, and so, this part managed to fight in Egypt and earlier in Vietnam. And the officers who fought us were told that they worked in Vietnam like that: they literally dragged on their shoulders (of course, the Vietnamese themselves, they defended their land, they got most of the work) complexes into the wilderness of the jungle, cut down a clearing, but at the same time cut down trees not felled, but hung on the ropes through the blocks, and the trees themselves were watered with water to keep them fresh longer. And they installed the S-75 SAMs under the cut down trees. A couple of phantoms are flying, how they flew, the felled trees were deflected to the side, the capture of the target, the volley, the felled trees in place, the complex (already relieved by 3-4 missiles) on the shoulders and running from there! If you don’t make legs in an hour, even less, then a flock of phantoms on a couple of hectares of the site from which the volley was fired will not leave even one midge alive! Everything will burn out with napalm. That's how the Vietnamese worked. And they pounded a bunch of phantoms. And then, as the Arabs did, according to the post of SMprofi, this is really stupidity! And why not burn, if now they are at a glance and expose themselves? Moreover, the Syrians do not need to carry this S-300 on themselves - it moves itself. No need to disguise - buy a bunch of rubber S-300 and false emitters! And if you need to, then you don’t need to bother with trees, buy good camouflage products, the same “Cape” will hide even in the infrared range! And more imagination at work! More inventions! Arrange Western pilots like a minefield for an infantryman - and they won’t fly! Because it is easier for an infantryman to run under bullets than on a minefield! It is also easier for the pilot to transfer the battle with enemy fighters than to fly to the area where he can fly, or may not fly to you in six swoops "a friendly girlfriend from Russia."
                  3. faraon
                    faraon 2 June 2013 14: 52 New
                    +3
                    Understand, dear, the question is not so acute, the question is something else, so that Russian specialists would not suffer. This project s-300 has three weak points. 1) as soon as it is unloaded, it will be bombed
                    2). As soon as he is taken to the place of deployment he will be bombed 3) as soon as he is deployed he will immediately become a target. This is the solution to all problems. As a result, Russia will not lose its face, it put everything under the contract. Israel will once again show on what is he capable of. One question remains: who will pay Russia for this performance? This is the alignment to a minimum. And then Syria is not Vietnam, Arabs are not Russians who will die for three birches in the field.
                  4. alicante11
                    alicante11 2 June 2013 16: 08 New
                    +1
                    And if it is bombed, then for the next few days you will spend everything in bomb shelters. because Iranian missiles, well, a little Assad Lebanese, will raze your cities to the ground.
                    I think that right now is the perfect time to ship C-300, after your bombing.
                  5. faraon
                    faraon 3 June 2013 01: 39 New
                    +1
                    Yes, that there is Iran or Syria, because the 6th American fleet is already in the Mediterranean Sea and Israel has something to hedge against Iran, a billion dollars went to prepare an operation against Iran, Well, Syria, weakened by 2 years of civil war, will not be able to fight for two front. The IDF is not a group of partisans of oppositionists. Yet it’s a regular army that can fight. For the Israelis it is a matter of life and death. Do not underestimate Israel. There is evidence in history.
                2. aksakal
                  aksakal 3 June 2013 01: 09 New
                  +2
                  Quote: faraon
                  Understand, dear, the question is not so acute, the question is something else, so that Russian specialists would not suffer. This project s-300 has three weak points. 1) as soon as it is unloaded, it will be bombed
                  2). As soon as he is taken to the place of deployment he will be bombed 3) as soon as he is deployed he immediately becomes a target
                  - S-300 - vertical launch of missiles. So, it can be installed in the destroyed Syrian cities, in the same previously cleared Daraye. Just put the air defense system close to the building and cover it with foam, painted in the color of the surrounding destroyed buildings. Polyfoam will mask in the infrared, and so it looks. That is, YOU DIDN'T FIND ABLE the deployed complex! If you do not include your own radar, but use the data from radars already on duty in Syria. Two difficulties remain - unloading and delivery to the place of deployment. Do you seriously believe that Putin and those to whom he entrusted this business do not understand this? Isn’t this a tough veil of secrecy over all this? That delivered complexes to Syria, then did not deliver laughing Such stuffing just indicates that the delivery will not be easy - they unloaded it in Tartus and drove it in front of thousands of people, as it did in Caracas laughing How to deliver - yes you do not know. But they will deliver. We won’t know how an entire regiment of paratroopers arrived unnoticed in Pristina - all the transit countries swore and swore that they didn’t pass this regiment through their territory! So here - will remain a mystery. Most likely, they will disguise themselves as sea twenty-foot containers, using the induced short-term interference for a while to cut down Israeli UAVs, etc. In general, it will be a special operation for delivery. I don’t think that the Russian special services lost the necessary skills - earlier operations were carried out and more complicated, but here - to deliver only six air defense systems and 144 missiles laughing
                3. faraon
                  faraon 3 June 2013 01: 22 New
                  +1
                  The question is not worth it. I give you a guarantee that as soon as the complex was loaded onto the ship in Israel, the relevant authorities already knew about it and began to work in this direction. (Joint exercises of the Air Force in Greece,) and I think that we should not underestimate the Israelis for sure she’s already thought out everything in this operation. As for Russia, she’s here in the role of seller, that is, the old formula is goods money goods. I think that Russia will fulfill its obligations but then even the grass does not grow. The buyer will have to worry about his new toy.
                4. aksakal
                  aksakal 3 June 2013 10: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: faraon
                  that you should not underestimate the Israelis for sure she already has everything thought out in this operation.

                  - Do not underestimate, but just perfectly know their intelligence capabilities. They are very good, but always any scouts have flaws and weaknesses that can be exploited.
                  Quote: faraon
                  .I think so that Russia will fulfill its obligations but then even the grass does not grow. The buyer will have to worry about his new toy

                  - Think for yourself, not for Russia. And do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs, that is, an ordinary commercial deal with big politics. In a typical business transaction, this is exactly what you described. But here is not at all what you see. This is not a commercial deal, it is a big political issue. The point is to keep Assad’s regime and prevent its overthrow with the active assistance of NATO and Israel. That is why the S-300 will be delivered in such a way that they would accurately and guaranteedly take up combat duty in Syria. Kuzya with planes, by the way, swam to you. This proves once again - they intend to put the S-300 on combat duty, and not just - unload it ashore, sign the acceptance certificate and set sail as it set off - kites from the neighboring state fly in and everything that is unloaded is bombed right there. Scha, you believe in what you want to believe! laughing Your faith has nothing to do with reality. laughing
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. faraon
          faraon 2 June 2013 14: 59 New
          +3
          I’ll answer for the fellow Jew Pupyrchaty, we were Jews in Russia here, we are Russian, and just like you are worried about the Fatherland that raised us, brought it to life, and we are not indifferent to its fate and everything that is happening in the vast expanses of the Soviet Union (although you consider us 5 column).
        4. alicante11
          alicante11 2 June 2013 15: 16 New
          +1
          Sorry, but I won’t believe it. If you were not indifferent to the fate of Russia, then you would not have left for Israel, but would have remained in Russia to support it with your labor, taxes, and, accordingly, to fight for it if necessary. Something tells me that you will not go from Tel Aviv or Haifa to the military commissariat of any Birobidzhan in order to defend the "fatherland" in the ranks of his army.
        5. faraon
          faraon 2 June 2013 16: 07 New
          +2
          if you think to defend the fate of the Fatherland on distant approaches (Syria, Iran, etc., etc.) then there is no sad experience like you, but if you need to defend the homeland, then yes, like you, I swore allegiance Homeland and not loyalty to businessmen from politics who interfere in the civil war of a country that did not stand close to the moral and cultural values ​​of Russia.
        6. phantom359
          phantom359 3 June 2013 23: 06 New
          +1
          Who started the civil war? Once you can shave off about the "rebels", but when it becomes a system, only a narrow-minded person will talk about cannibals as fighters for democracy.
  • Arkan
    Arkan 2 June 2013 11: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    But I'm also an analyst

    laughing laughing laughing Good fun.
  • alicante11
    alicante11 1 June 2013 16: 15 New
    +1
    Not a panacea, but what a squeal the general people raised because of them. which indicates that the complexes are good and that our specialists will be serviced.
  • rolik
    rolik 1 June 2013 19: 19 New
    0
    Quote: vaf
    , and even more so in the hands of the Syrians.

    Here is also an interesting question, why in the hands of the Syrians ??? Ours were already passing this when our air defense systems were destroyed in the hands of the Syrians, and not a single killed Syrian air defense was found in these remains. That's how they fought. Kalash in hand, T-72 in the ass, this is their style of war. But I don’t think they will give them high-tech weapons.
  • alicante11
    alicante11 1 June 2013 15: 29 New
    +6
    And who told you that there was no EW? Our tests have always been characterized by very high rigidity to technology. It may be recalled that all major shipbuilding powers tested their ships with underload and excess blast. And only the Russians tested their armadillos and cruisers with full load and without excessive boost. For this reason, Mikasy did not run much faster than Poltava, although they had 18,5 nodes in trials. And Japanese Italians have never given more 18 nodes with 20 passports.
    1. VAF
      VAF 1 June 2013 15: 41 New
      +3
      Quote: alicante11
      And who told you that there was no EW?


      Yes, you know .. it happened .. "be-with" and .. "participate"!

      Quote: alicante11
      Our tests have always been characterized by very high rigidity to technology.


      I beg of you lol That's it to the Act, then pieces with a dozen Lists of Additions and Changes (temporary and permanent restrictions) wassat

      Quote: alicante11
      that all major shipbuilding powers tested their ships with a lack of cargo and excessive blast. And only the Russians tested their armadillos and cruisers with full load and without excessive boost


      This is not for me ... I'm not naval! soldier
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 1 June 2013 16: 10 New
        +3
        Yes, you know .. it happened .. "be-with" and .. "participate"!


        Well, yes, my own experience. Could it be you yourself who did it to get a higher rating with lower training?

        I beseech you So-and-so to the Act, then pieces from a dozen Lists of Additions and Changes (temporary and permanent restrictions)


        And what's this? Tests and the need to identify all the jambs. There, Mr. Varyag was not revealed, so Kramp's rubbish did not hold more than 20 nodes with the tested 24's.

        This is not for me ... I'm not naval!


        Yes, I, too, just curious and patriot, sir.
        1. VAF
          VAF 1 June 2013 16: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: alicante11
          Well, yes, my own experience.


          And what's wrong with that? At least after 3 wars .. alive and "healthy" and I communicate with you wink And ..... continue on ..or do you understand? sad

          Quote: alicante11
          Could it be you yourself who did it to get a higher rating with lower training?


          We just “checked” the “lice” of the declared, but they make and produce ... this is Industry (MAP, MCI, MTM, etc., though this is from the past, now more and more ... OJSC, CJSC ,, MMM wassat )

          Quote: alicante11
          And this is what?


          What’s the matter ... to your phrase "about stiffness and ... why is it there" or do you forget to write? wink
          Shoals are detected. As a rule, on mock-ups (mock commissions) and stages of semi-natural, full-scale modeling and bench tests.
          And the tests are carried out in accordance with the TTT, where it turns out that this is EVERYTHING ... the industry can no longer .. take what it is, here the "braces" with the "braces" and "with lifelong refinements and tests" begin!

          Quote: alicante11
          just curious and patriotic, sir.


          Well, curiosity is not .. wink but with the second requestIt depends on what you "invest" in the meaning of this criterion .... The 3-volt shouted the same that he was a patriot ... for 85 rubles for koment wassat
          1. alicante11
            alicante11 2 June 2013 03: 08 New
            0
            And what's wrong with that? At least after the 3's wars .. alive and “healthy” and I’m talking to you And ..... continue on ..or do you understand?


            And everything is simple. because on the forum your experience is not visible. I don’t want to say anything personally about you, but if I summarize everyone I met in the forums that took place in the 3-5-10 wars, then probably the entire male population of modern Russia will be typed, including one-year-old babies. Therefore, the best recommendation for "experience" would still be some confirmation of it from independent sources.

            We just “checked” the “lice” of the declared, but they make and produce ... this is Industry (MAP, MCI, MTM, etc., though this is from the past, now more and more ... OJSC, CJSC ,, , Mmm)


            Well, you see, it’s not so clear with the way the exercises are conducted, if you did it on purpose.
            And there are two more points. The first. In the course of study, of course, exercises are first conducted in light modes.
            The second - if there is such a thing as electronic warfare, which we know that we can use. WHY do ZRV calculations study ONLY in lite modes? Do not you think that this is nonsense, which cannot be in principle. Even in the "dark" 90's, not to mention now, and even more so about the 80's. Or do you seriously assume that ALL the leadership of the Moscow Region and ALL the General Generals and all the commanders of formations and units of the ZRV are traitors to the Motherland? I hope you have enough mind to stop citing your “experience”, which is contrary to common sense.

            And the tests are carried out in accordance with the TTT, where it turns out that this is EVERYTHING ... the industry can no longer .. take what it is, here the "braces" with the "braces" and "with lifelong refinements and tests" begin!


            I still don’t understand how this statement of yours relates to the fact that exercises are conducted in “lightweight” modes. I told you that the tests of our combat systems (specifically, we were talking about warships) took place in more severe conditions than in the West. And, it is clear that just in order to identify all those jambs that designers and builders admitted not in battle, but about the time of the exercises. That's all. Your words were just a kind of confirmation of my assertion, however, uttered in a variant of the dispute. Therefore, I don’t understand, "where does it ..."

            Well, curiosity is not ... a mess, but with the second one depending on what you "put" into the meaning of this criterion .... 3-hvoltovy yelled the same as a patriot ... for 85 rubles for koment


            Have you personally given them out? Or saw receipts? Or can a patriot not receive money for his work for the good of the motherland? In short, your example is not a topic. And I'm not screaming, but quietly say so about the existing fact.
  • MG42
    MG42 1 June 2013 15: 29 New
    +5
    You can shoot 2 missiles at a target for reliability, if it makes a missile defense, the second one will get ..
    The normal result ... in addition, the complex is not toothless to cover it with short-range air defense ...
    1. VAF
      VAF 1 June 2013 15: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: MG42
      The normal result ... in addition, the complex is not toothless to cover it with short-range air defense ...


      The normal result is when THEORY and PRACTICE coincide, and not the way we do ... INCOMPATIBLE! soldier

      I can also "throw" a bunch of all sorts of calculations and calculations from theory to you, but in practice, unfortunately, everything is different!

      And if the tactics of the aviation of Amers, Israel, and NATO in general are based on realities, then, while maintaining the database, we ourselves "invented" a tactic that is very different from the Airborne Aviation Design Bureau and upon arrival home the "gods-commanders" of a local spill. .. "you throw these Afghan habits, so you can’t fly here!"
      Here is 08.08.08. and showed ..... how is it "ZY" crying by theirs soldier
      1. MG42
        MG42 1 June 2013 16: 16 New
        +6
        Quote: vaf
        The normal result is when THEORY and PRACTICE coincide.

        The real "testing" of the c300 does not hurt, as the c75 was tested under the USSR in Vietnam, very valuable experience for developing future systems ..
        The fact that they raised a squeal means they are afraid, Russia has the right to deliver, because according to previously concluded contracts + these are defensive systems ..
        1. VAF
          VAF 1 June 2013 17: 01 New
          +9
          Quote: MG42
          Real <testing> c300 won't hurt


          If only OURS are there and, as expected, a deeply layered air defense system and the provision of reconnaissance and electronic warfare equipment are built, then yes +!

          Since they are going to do ..... I already wrote ... the Israelis (Air Force) will have enough days to erase everything in dust!

          Quote: MG42
          The fact that they raised a squeal means they are afraid


          I would say .. they are cautious and right, by the way they do, this is on our site ....

          Quote: MG42
          Russia has the right to deliver, because under previously concluded contracts + these are defensive systems ..


          And who disputes this, me? belay For 50 years, we have been supplying and supplying everything with a hook. wassat
      2. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 1 June 2013 17: 34 New
        10
        + good Rake our national idea is fixed! And the saddest thing is that all the troops have such a situation (mentality or what?)! Ah! Why do we need special forces (expensive, guys with initiative, with their combat experience), we will reduce it, and then the thunder struck, we start again, GRU something in esteem, then in the pen (and it’s recognized as one of the most efficient intelligence services in the world), but do not break it — decades will pass until you return what you lost and count all the bumps! Aviation-disorder and reeling! Yes, a new technique is slowly coming up and where is the new strategy and tactics, where it’s clearly written why and where for what reason! With the advent of high-precision weapons, electronic warfare systems come first (we’ll have to put armored vehicles) and where it is (and God forbid we’ll throw microwaves around the perimeter), etc. etc. Mountain brigades - after Afghanistan, no brains were added (what is hard to walk and fight in the mountains?) And only because the Olympics are stirring something! The question to who is in the topic is, how are you dealing with underwater swimmers, is there or isn’t there? will not strike?
        Sergei (vaf) correctly wrote -experience, the knowledge gained later and with blood is not needed (not according to the instructions)! Why only the war puts everything in its place? ...
      3. berimor
        berimor 1 June 2013 18: 18 New
        +5
        I put +++. You are absolutely right!!! I heard the same thing from the command after my "business trips" to Egypt (1970-1971 gg) and to Syria (1973 g). Here, they say, not war, here is another theater of the database and so on and so forth, and 080808 itself showed that I was right. I have written about this many times. And this "urya - patriotism" can be preached, I believe, only by those who do not understand anything in a particular case or who have never snuffed gunpowder !!!
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 18: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: berimor
          I put +++. You are absolutely right!!! I heard the same thing from the command after my "business trips" to Egypt (1970-1971 gg) and to Syria (1973 g). Here, they say, not war, here is another theater of the database and so on and so forth, and 080808 itself showed that I was right. I have written about this many times. And this "urya - patriotism" can be preached, I believe, only by those who do not understand anything in a particular case or who have never snuffed gunpowder !!!

          Can i ask you? And how did the Soviet advisers evaluate the actions of the 7 and 188 tank brigades. Especially 188?
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 23 New
          0
          It would be interesting from you to read an article on the topic. What in Egypt of those times, what in Syria. Thanks in advance.
    2. Army1
      Army1 1 June 2013 18: 12 New
      +1
      There’s a trick here, it turns out that if you hit all 300 missiles with XNUMX, then we have bad missiles?
      1. VAF
        VAF 1 June 2013 18: 45 New
        +7
        Quote: Army1
        There’s a trick here, it turns out that if you hit all 300 missiles with XNUMX, then we have bad missiles


        True thought, +! but not a "chip", because S-300 shot down Targets!

        But the "Chip" was when just recently in the Baltic Fleet they smashed the Volcano missile launcher with the missile system, and it was "overwhelmed" by Calm from the Hindu ..... this is the "Chip"!

        After all, as always " fellow ", and to think that at the moment RTOs are the main striking force of our Navy and Vulcan is the very, very rocket .... for some reason ... they are modestly silent wassat

        Well, or when they “knock down” all anti-ship missiles of the BB type Redoubt, Boundary both from ships and from Mig-31-x ... the same ... "Chip" crying
        1. Army1
          Army1 1 June 2013 21: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: vaf
          True thought, +! but not a "chip", because S-300 shot down Targets!

          But the "Chip" was when just recently in the Baltic Fleet they smashed the Volcano missile launcher with the missile system, and it was "overwhelmed" by Calm from the Hindu ..... this is the "Chip"!

          After all, as always, “fellow”, and to think that at the moment RTOs are the main striking force of our Navy and Vulcan is the very, very rocket .... for some reason ... wassat was modestly silent

          Well, or when they “knock down” all anti-ship missiles of the BB type Redoubt, Boundary and from ships and from Mig-31's .. the same ... "Chip

          Yes, interesting, one conclusion is that everything will be checked in battle, God forbid, of course. And how many people have so many opinions, Aegis will be intercepted by Onyx, Onyx will drown burke. figs understand.
          1. rolik
            rolik 2 June 2013 01: 03 New
            +2
            Quote: Army1
            . And how many people have so many opinions, Aegis will be intercepted by Onyx, Onyx will drown burke. figs understand.

            By the way about the steepness of Aegis)))) Jambs enough. And a downed civilian plane, and anti-ship missiles which he did not see.
        2. Botanologist
          Botanologist 2 June 2013 12: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: vaf
          Well, or when they “knock down” all anti-ship missiles of the BB type Redoubt, Boundary both from ships and from Mig-31-x ... the same ... "Chip"


          Veteran, incomprehensible pessimism. Shot a rocket from a ship - bad. Not shot down - even worse. And what good is then? request
          As in the joke about choosing a car - American cars g ..., because it is neither German nor Japanese quality. German r ... because there is no real Japanese quality. Japanese r ... because there is no true German quality.
          So after all in a circle you can walk endlessly.
          1. Atrix
            Atrix 2 June 2013 12: 42 New
            -2
            Quote: Botanologist
            Quote: vaf
            Well, or when they “knock down” all anti-ship missiles of the BB type Redoubt, Boundary both from ships and from Mig-31-x ... the same ... "Chip"


            Veteran, incomprehensible pessimism. Shot a rocket from a ship - bad. Not shot down - even worse. And what good is then? request
            As in the joke about choosing a car - American cars g ..., because it is neither German nor Japanese quality. German r ... because there is no real Japanese quality. Japanese r ... because there is no true German quality.
            So after all in a circle you can walk endlessly.

            And the fact that these missiles as they say "have no analogues" and it is not possible to shoot them down. And the fact that they were shot down already calls into question their combat effectiveness. The main task of the RCC missiles is to sink the ship, but they did not fulfill this task.
  • Army1
    Army1 1 June 2013 18: 05 New
    +2
    Quote: vaf
    flight direction and flight time of targets is known, there are no counter-forces of electronic warfare

    Is it 100%?
    1. VAF
      VAF 1 June 2013 18: 27 New
      +3
      Quote: Army1
      Is it 100%?


      No ..1000%! bully
      1. Locksmith
        Locksmith 1 June 2013 19: 33 New
        +5
        Quote: vaf
        No ..1000%!

        Why are people misleading? A REVIEW locator works, therefore, all targets in the AUTHORIZED battle fields appear from FULLY a certain azimuth, otherwise it’s also possible to shoot somewhere in a military town-type to the flyers — it’s a coincidence, of course, this is all for the sake of firing safety, but honestly Look for your goals. In Soviet times, as a rule, two divisions of different complexes grazed a firing complex.
        1. rolik
          rolik 2 June 2013 01: 04 New
          +3
          Quote: Locksmith
          Why are people misleading

          And you just noticed it)))))))
  • Mairos
    Mairos 1 June 2013 19: 43 New
    0
    Are you so sure that there was no EW countermeasures? That all flight parameters of the conditional target were known?
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 1 June 2013 12: 22 New
    11
    From the category of eternal confrontation of means of attack and defense: sword and shield, tank and ATGM, aircraft and air defense systems. Victory is always for professionalism and training.
  • Rus2012
    Rus2012 1 June 2013 13: 47 New
    0
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    To counter the block, a deeply layered air defense system (ground and air forces of various types) is required in conjunction with airborne warning systems and radar systems supported by electronic warfare

    ... you have to be frivolous, so that all this would not be in the least possible form, at least!
  • dmitrich
    dmitrich 1 June 2013 15: 44 New
    -4
    if they know that they will have big losses they won’t climb and do not need a deeply echeloned defense. They did not fight against the S-300 and do not know what it is.
    1. VAF
      VAF 1 June 2013 15: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: Dmitry
      They did not fight against the S-300 and do not know what it is.


      You are mistaken and very much ... or just not in the know. what did the yolkin “give” the S-300 to amers?
      No further telling?
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 1 June 2013 16: 17 New
        +2
        Then remember the joke about file processing. recently on this resource he was remembered.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 1 June 2013 17: 15 New
        +1
        Not certainly in that way. Shushkevich, the complex was sold from Belarus.

        But do not forget. S-300 was delivered to Greece. Where the same Israelis successfully checked it.
        1. VAF
          VAF 1 June 2013 17: 58 New
          +2
          Quote: Pimply
          Not certainly in that way. Shushkevich, the complex was sold from Belarus.


          Eugene, I will not dissuade you, but ..... "by order of the Government of the Russian Federation No. 1841-rs dated November 25, 1994, the state company Rosvooruzhenie, together with the State Committee for the Defense Industry, was instructed to conduct negotiations with a view to supplying G.R.A through the American company . Trading Company Inc. "" one S-300V anti-aircraft missile system. "

          The result was not one 300V sold, but several, plus they bought in Ukraine stations from set P and in Belarus from a set of PU!

          Then there was a lot ... of what "interesting" bully
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 25 New
            -1
            As for the interesting - I will not argue. In those years, the budget of Israel was larger than the budget of the Russian Federation.
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 2 June 2013 17: 25 New
          -1
          Sold not Shushkevich and Lukashenko. It was in November 1994. Educational complex from the Minsk school.
      3. not good
        not good 2 June 2013 17: 06 New
        0
        I will add: the gift was not exported, but removed from the database, not even a single nameplate was torn off. The stake is aspen.
    2. berimor
      berimor 1 June 2013 18: 57 New
      -1
      Naivnyak !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • a
    a 1 June 2013 17: 41 New
    +8
    It seems to me that meditations on the themes of the S-300 against NATO and Israel aviation are somewhat contrived. Yes, air defense systems have a definite significance in this conflict. But far from the main thing. We consider the S-300 as a means of counteracting enemy aircraft. The question is, what will the use of enemy aircraft give? NATO wants to establish a no-fly zone Libya’s example? For example, install. what's next? they will not interfere in ground confrontations because it threatens them with decent losses of servicemen. they can only try to suppress the actions of the armored units of the Syrian army. And then with an incomprehensible ending. the war in Syria is mainly in the settlements. in order to suppress the armored units there is needed not fighter-bomber aircraft, but attack aircraft and attack helicopters. only Amrekans have attack aircraft. but I don’t think they will directly intervene. however, aviation can fight armored units with carpet bombing. but then, in conditions of street fighting, this will essentially be the genocide of the Syrian population, no matter whom it would support, Assad or the rebels. from my point of view, the use of NATO aviation will not change anything in the war. this war has become not just a civil war, but a war of civilizations. Sunni civilization versus Shiite-Alawite. the loss of one of the civilizations, especially the Shiite-Alavite, is likely to lead to its disappearance from the map of Syria. therefore, even if NATO establishes control over the sky of Syria and constantly bombers the objects that are still in Assad’s hands, Assad is unlikely to raise the handle up, as Miloseich did in Yugoslavia at one time. If Assad loses in Syria there will be a massacre, in comparison with which the Holocaust will seem a prank.
    I think that Western countries will not directly get involved in the conflict, even establish a no-fly zone. all their lamentations over the S-300 are connected with the fact that the supply of the S-300 will seriously hinder Israel for the implementation of possible actions in the sky of Syria. The article is of course interesting, with the aim of learning the means of neutralizing air defense. But it seems to me that it would have been more applied in nature if there had been a review of the means of neutralizing air defense by the forces of Israel, and not the United States. I think that the United States will not become 99% involved in this conflict. unless Assad gives a direct reason for this, for example, using chemical weapons
    1. radio operator
      radio operator 2 June 2013 11: 30 New
      +3
      Quote: uno
      this war has become not just a civil war, but a war of civilizations. Sunni civilization versus Shiite-Alawite. the loss of one of the civilizations, especially the Shiite-Alavite, is likely to lead to its disappearance from the map of Syria

      I add that in Syria there are still Christian places. A number of saints had the prefix "Sirsky". Bashar is also on guard of one of the centers of Christianity, by the way.
      In Egypt, the democratizers destroyed the local Christianity, alas, but it was rather big there.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 2 June 2013 15: 15 New
        0
        You once eliminated 10 percent of the population in Egypt. Which destroyed? As they were there, everything is bad, so bad and left. The last time a little worse, but the trends and long before that were
      2. Slav
        Slav 20 June 2013 13: 31 New
        0
        Quote: radio operator
        In Egypt, the democratizers destroyed the local Christianity, alas, but it was rather big there.

        Yes, that’s how it was.
        Syria must not be missed.
    2. sasha127
      sasha127 2 June 2013 14: 57 New
      +3
      I think that the words of Moshe Yaalon “If they will be delivered to Syria, we know what to do” should be taken into account so that Israel is planning to carry out a special operation to destroy the S-300. As it seems to me, such a support will be carried out with the participation of ground special groups. Which will establish the exact location of C -300. Then the aircraft, without entering the S-300 range, will launch a powerful missile strike. And Israel will not calm down until it destroys all S-300 installations. For Syria, the S-300 installations are a guarantee that NATO will not wake them, but on the other parties it’s a pain to protect them from such special groups and not only from them, but also from the so-called rebels for “freedom” who also have a lot of life to destroy. I hope that Syria will have the strength and resources to protect them See S-300 is not a little important guarantee for the Victory.
  • waisson
    waisson 1 June 2013 18: 44 New
    0
    good good good worthy answer
  • piotr534
    piotr534 1 June 2013 20: 38 New
    0
    To counter the block, a deeply layered air defense system (ground and air forces of various types) is required in conjunction with airborne warning systems and radar systems supported by electronic warfare
    The air defense system, of course, is a good thing, but the aggressor alone cannot defend the aggressor. It can be stopped by the real threat of using offensive weapons, in this case chemical in Israel and Turkey. am
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 26 New
      0
      The presence of chemical weapons just makes it more likely to strike him.
  • nycsson
    nycsson 1 June 2013 21: 24 New
    0
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    To counter the block, a deeply layered air defense system (ground and air forces of various types) is required in conjunction with airborne warning systems and radar systems supported by electronic warfare

    Totally agree with you. Now you rarely see a sober look at things! hi
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 27 New
      -3
      In addition, there must be a powerful air force. Without them, air defense has very limited capabilities, especially in modern wars.
      1. Dmitriy2009
        Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 17: 38 New
        0
        MiG-29M2 is a modern two-generation multi-purpose fighter of the “4 ++” generation with an increased flight range, increased combat load and an expanded range of airborne weapons. MiG-29M (aka MiG-33) is a single-seat fighter similar in characteristics. The message "Interfax" erroneously indicated the name "MiG-29MM2".
        http://www.newsru.co.il/world/31may2013/mig29_110.html
  • SergeySK
    SergeySK 1 June 2013 10: 52 New
    11
    All these EW wonders are impressive of course!

    Only now Shell C1 all these wonders on the drum! It works in optical mode no worse!


    For firing at ground targets and targets flying at extremely low altitudes, an optical-electronic system (OES) is used to track the target and missiles. The OES is located at the autonomous optical station (AOP), which allows you to direct the optical axis of the OES according to the signals of the central computer system (CVS) to the target in the range of angles: in azimuth - 90 °, in elevation - from - 5 ° to + 82 °. OES allows additional search of the target according to target designation from the DAC and automatic target capture for auto tracking. Target tracking is carried out in the IR range of 3-5 μm, which ensures the daily use of rocket weapons in the optical mode. The range of auto tracking (with a meteorological range of 10 km) is: F-16 - 17-26 km; PRR HARM - 13-15km; KR ALCM - 11-14km. The missiles are sighted in the near-IR range of the spectrum (0,8 μm), the rocket marching stage is sighted by the pulsed signals of the missile optical transponder, which ensures high channel noise immunity from false thermal targets. The narrow fields of view of the optical channels and the high accuracy of gearless motors of AOP guidance drives ensure the accuracy of measuring the angular coordinates of the target and rocket no worse than 0,05 mrad along the azimuth and elevation channels. Systematic errors of the missile and target channels of the ECO are eliminated when launching missiles in the process of automatic mutual alignment of direction finders of the rocket and the target. Accurate measurement of the angular deviations of the rocket from the line of sight of the target allows you to implement a high-precision guidance system of the rocket at the target in the optical mode of the control system. Only in the optical mode, missiles can be fired at targets flying at extremely low altitudes (at a height of 5 m above the water surface), and at ground targets.
    1. Atrix
      Atrix 1 June 2013 11: 29 New
      -9
      Quote: SergeySK
      Only now Shell C1 all these wonders on the drum! It works in optical mode no worse!

      At the same time, the radar target tracking system (single-channel) used in the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile defense system, as shown by calculations and modeling (and state tests, the results of which are “reliably” hidden), does not provide the required accuracy of aiming the missiles at maximum range even with effective reflective surface 2 sq. m and more. Under moderate weather conditions, the optoelectronic channel provides reliable detection and tracking of targets at ranges of no more than 12 – 15 km and is also single-channel.

      In addition, the radar and optoelectronic channels of the Pantsir-C1 ZRPK are not parallel, but mutually complementary, and by no means increase the channel of the complex for the target

      According to the integrated assessment of the totality of combat characteristics and the “cost-effectiveness” criterion carried out using situational models, the Top-M2U SAM with the 9M331M SAM surpasses the Pantsir-S1 SAM by 1,2–1,3 times

      Only in April 2009 the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation made a decision and carried out appropriate firing at short-range air defense systems. In the process of “comparative tests”, the “Top” system hit all targets with an equal number of missiles in traffic conditions. With the Shell system, target damage was less than 17 percent by the doubled number of ammunition in stationary mode. At the same time, during the testing process, the preliminary requirement for firing under the same conditions at the same targets was not met. These data are recorded in the protocol of the commission for testing.

      The carapace is an advertised wunderwafer
      http://www.pryaniki.org/view/article/7901/
      http://army-news.ru/2012/09/pancir-i-tor-tyazhelo-srazhatsya-na-dva-fronta/
      1. SergeySK
        SergeySK 1 June 2013 11: 58 New
        +3
        Does Syria have Torahs ???

        Then compare them with the Petriot, they have their identity!
        1. Atrix
          Atrix 1 June 2013 12: 16 New
          -5
          Quote: SergeySK
          Does Syria have Torahs ???

          Then compare them with the Petriot, they have their identity!

          Did I write somewhere that Syria has a Top? You write about the Shell as if it is a wunderwafer that has no analogues. I gave you the data that this system is inferior to Toram and it is stupidly advertised by the manufacturer and shoves in all ways. Although it does not meet its characteristics. And Syria already has the Shell, but they did not help her stop the Israeli attacks. Now you will write that Israel delivered attacks from Lebanon, but the missiles and bombs which the manufacturer claims the shell should shoot at times, all the same, fell and reached their goal. So do not think that the Shell will be able to cover the S-300
          “Pride” of the Military Industrial “COMPANY Ashurbeyli & Co.”; SAM "Armor", capable of covering only himself (and that - from piston aircraft since World War II)
    2. smprofi
      smprofi 1 June 2013 12: 21 New
      10
      Quote: SergeySK
      Only now Shell C1 all these wonders on the drum! It works in optical mode no worse!

      the optical vizier was also on the "grandfather" of the Soviet military air defense air defense system "Circle". and it worked well: somewhere at a distance of 40 km (on the rangefinder), it was possible to distinguish between the “optics” that the “target” was clearly the An-24. I watched it myself.
      BUT!
      amateurs of archaeological strategies-theorists completely forget such a thing: it is possible to accompany the target through the "optics", but it is problematic to detect. try to take an optical sight with good magnification (not binoculars!) and catch a moving "target". in real life, unlike computer shooters and Hollywood films, this is not easy to do oh.
      for detection without radar all-round visibility! And here at ZRPK "Shell-C1" there are big problems.

      As an old joke says: our microcircuits are the largest microcircuits in the world!

      it's not about chips. and in OST and GOST. in the late 80s was in one KB. I didn’t know an open name then, but I don’t remember. I was there to learn how to work with a gas discharge panel (512x256 pixels). and they showed me the current “layout” - the radar counter, where this panel was used as an indicator. if it “worked” on a radar with a CRT circular viewing indicator, then the gas discharge is impressive: the mark from the target, of course, does not depend on the sweep, the target has a mark and, as it seemed to me, data about the target! class!
      BUT! again, "BUT" ... all this is assembled in a construct from the same "grandfather" "Circle". here you have the weight, here you have the dimensions ...
    3. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 12: 24 New
      +2
      Syria - 36 of complexes 96K6 [22] and 700 units 9М311 were delivered from Russia during the period from 2008 to 2011. Supply is carried out under the 2006 contract of the year, which provides for the supply of up to 50 96K6 systems and up to 700 missiles to them.

      And how did it help during the night airstrikes?
      1. pogis
        pogis 1 June 2013 15: 41 New
        +3
        And where did you get the idea that where the rockets fell the “Armor” stood? Where they stood the Turks fell!
        1. old man54
          old man54 2 June 2013 03: 42 New
          0
          Quote: pogis
          And where did you get the idea that where the rockets fell the “Armor” stood? Where they stood the Turks fell!

          "Turks" shot down over the sea, off the coast, clearly stated by the media! And not rocket, but barrel artillery, I think that AKA230 / AKA630 !!
  • Joker
    Joker 1 June 2013 10: 53 New
    +9
    What the author scared hi We should have more of everything and more good and different radars. If I heard about planes, then there is no Apache against anti-aircraft defense, all the same a good helicopter, even a very good one, we have nothing to oppose yet, we still have MI-28 without radar, and the armament is worse, I generally keep silent about the quantity. Here Nehru was Kamov at one time to press, we would have a machine much better than the American one, and now we are catching up again.
  • NKVD
    NKVD 1 June 2013 10: 59 New
    16
    Assess the strengths and weaknesses of the S-300 can only NATO pilots laughing
  • VAF
    VAF 1 June 2013 13: 54 New
    +5
    Quote: Professor
    Thank you for the article.


    I support, dear Professor! Undoubtedly Oleg. +! good

    I’ll also allow myself to “insert” 5 kopecks in two aspects, that is:

    1. Facilitation of the detection of air defense systems by RS-135W aircraft.

    2. Simplification of the tasks of destroying the "opened" positions of air defense systems using HARM missiles /

    So:

    1. The US Air Force and Raytheon began in 2012 the production and arming of ultra-light missiles - false targets MALD-J (Miniature Air Launched Decoy Jammer).

    The missile weighs less than 300 pounds and has a flight range of about 500 nautical miles, designed to protect aircraft and their crews, simulating the flights and radar signature of US aircraft and their allies.

    MALD-J provides aircraft protection by saturating the detection channels and guiding enemy air defenses with false targets.

    During 2012, 13 launches of MALD and MALD-J were carried out, all of them demonstrated the reliability and effectiveness of missiles.

    On September 6, Raytheon Missile Systems delivered the first MALD-J missile to the U.S. Air Force, and the ceremony was held at the company's factory in Tucson.



    2. Raytheon supplies the US Army sets of remotely controlled network-centric-electronic warfare systems NERO (Networked Electronic Warfare, Remotely Operated) for equipping unmanned aerial vehicles MQ-1C Gray Eagle (pictured) for jamming enemy communication systems.

    The NERO system is based on the CEASAR army program (Communications Electronic Attack with Surveillance and Reconnaissance)
    The new electronic warfare system is housed in an unmanned aerial vehicle’s hanging container, capable of performing two to three times more tasks and has lower operating costs than the existing CEASAR system.

    “NERO provides critical facilities and capabilities for interfering with communications systems. We used the success of the CEASAR program, designed for installation on manned aircraft and adapted it for drones, ”said Glen Bassett, director of advanced communications and countermeasures at the Air and Space Systems Division.

    The CEASAR EW system was first installed on Beechcraft King Air C-12 light aircraft and uses the same containers as NERO. Both systems allow the US Army to control the electromagnetic spectrum, providing the ability to interfere out of line of sight in the interests of the ground forces.

    CEASAR and NERO systems are capable of interfering with any means of communication and control.

    1. Santa Fe
      1 June 2013 16: 56 New
      +2
      It is always nice to hear a professional opinion. Regarding the traps, yes, it turns out that Harvard and MiT are not in vain eating up their grants. Guys with the money. with great opportunities, intellectuals from around the world have been gathered, in short, we need to "cooperate" with them, as China does

      Alone, we alone cannot master these technologies.
      1. Army1
        Army1 1 June 2013 18: 22 New
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Alone, we alone cannot master these technologies.

        -
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Mister X
    Mister X 1 June 2013 16: 36 New
    +7
    It would be interesting if not only the United States funds were added to the description, but also NATO and the IDF.


    Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) developed the Harpy UAV,
    designed to combat radar.

    “HARPY provides the most effective solution to the hostile radar problem, at the lowest price.”
    What a loose translation sounds like: “an effective solution to problems at a low price.”



    Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) developed the Harpy UAV, designed to combat radar.


    “Harpy” is a homing missile projectile.
    After detecting the radar signals, it determines the location of the target,
    dives at her and strikes with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead.
    It starts from a mobile launcher of a container type using solid fuel launch boosters.

    Harpy is in service with the armed forces of Israel, Turkey, China, India and South Korea.

    Wingspan (m): 2.00
    Length (m): 2.30
    Height (m): 0.36
    Payload mass (kg): 70
    Maximum take-off weight (kg): 125
    Engine type: 1 turbojet engine
    Maximum speed (km / h): 250
    Range (km): 400
    Flight Duration (Hours): 3
    Practical ceiling (m): 3,000

  • nycsson
    nycsson 1 June 2013 20: 36 New
    0
    The Battle of Titans

    The author’s conclusion is not entirely successful. All these expenses will more than pay off when Syria and Iran fall.
    Thank you very much for the article. Decent analysis. I think that many understood that C-300 alone could not solve the problem. They are in NATO, too, not made a finger. Do not underestimate the enemy, especially this.
  • w.ebdo.g
    w.ebdo.g 1 June 2013 21: 42 New
    +5
    Combat EMR generator "Knapsack-E"
    This complex was created as a means of defense of mobile RES from high-precision weapons. The new system consists of an antenna, a high-power generator, a control subsystem, a measuring installation and a power source. "Satchel-E" can be made in stationary and mobile versions (the mass of actual military equipment is about five tons). The power of its radiation in a pulse with a duration of 10–20 ns in the centimeter wavelength range exceeds 500 MW. Such parameters, according to Rosoboronexport, make it possible to hit guidance systems and electronic equipment of high-precision munitions and guided missiles at a distance of up to 10 km in a 60-degree sector.

    The “gun” firing "pulses through the antenna at 50dB," as can be seen from the graph, can completely disable the electronics of the aircraft at a distance of 12-14 kilometers, and serious malfunctions of navigation systems that jeopardize the performance of a combat mission will also be observed at a distance 40 kilometers

    There is another antenna, at 45dB, which provides a significantly shorter range of destruction (it is about it that is said at the beginning of the message, where about a sector of 60 degrees), but with a much wider beam. What is useful in the fight against high-speed small-sized targets, the precise guidance of which is difficult or impossible, such as adjustable shells or small-sized and non-radiopaque UAVs.
    The essence of the idea is to create a voltage on the target’s surface that exceeds kilovolt / meter, which causes breakdowns that damage the device’s electronics. The system works in conjunction with standard means of detection and control of air defense forces, - radar stations and command centers
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 2 June 2013 01: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: w.ebdo.g
      Combat EMR generator "Knapsack-E"

      - for any Harpy there is a "harpy" with a tricked thread on the left side laughing Mr. Hae, your predictions? “Your Harpy — will you like this Russian shoulder-strap?”
      By the way, here the Israelis somehow boasted of directors of interference - but for God's sake. So, in Syria, the beauty "Krasukha-2" may appear, the Israelis and their praised jammers will like laughing Along with the "Autobase" - that already managed to please the Iranians with something laughing
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 2 June 2013 13: 56 New
        0
        I wish there was a “Chopper” in the case to test, otherwise the landfill tests are still one result, but the really punished Israeli flyers are another
  • radio operator
    radio operator 2 June 2013 11: 17 New
    0
    The creators of the C-300 foresaw this threat - the "side lobes" of the C-300 beam were minimized, which greatly complicates the work on the detection and classification of radars of the "three-hundredth" anti-aircraft missile system. In addition, C-300 had serious potential for adapting to the noise environment and suppressing “Doppler noise”.

    Yes, there it was.
    If I’m not mistaken, then in the year 2008, at an exhibition in Abu Dhabi, the 300th radio-electronic complex “conditionally shot down” all aircraft with electronic warfare systems turned on in combat mode. Our PZ and the designer joyfully rubbed their hands, there were good reasons for this. True, a tar spoon crept into this cloudless picture. They offered nothing to do (whose initiative was - I don’t remember) and let's go to SU-27 with our electronic warfare station cut off from the production version, flying over three hundredth in combat order. The result - a cold sweat on the forehead of our generals: the radar did not see the drying! They considered it an electronic malfunction, but a second flight confirmed the anxiety of the C-300 developers.
    What can be said, based on the foregoing: the praised Israeli, American and French electronic warfare systems were powerless, at that time the “push” of the 300th, and C-300 still had a sufficient “safety margin”, i.e. did not use all the power of the complex. But, because Since our drying station turned out to be more efficient, it is impossible to exclude that the Israelis could pull themselves up during this time (I hope the intelligence regularly supplies our Defense Ministry with technical characteristics of their stations, and the changes introduced there).
    By the way, a year later, at the training ground in Akhtubinsk, where the Air Force and Air Defense training grounds are adjacent, ours (SU-27 and the serial electronic warfare station) offered to fly over the S-400, which was tested. Air defense refused, citing the fact that the generals from the PZ, in case of non-detection, will send the S-400 radar for revision.
    But in vain, maybe C-400 would have “conditionally knocked down” the drying.
    and also, in textbooks on combat use, it is recommended to cover the near range with the Pantsir missile-cannon complex, or the like. Fortunately, there is plenty to choose from.
    1. Professor
      Professor 2 June 2013 11: 25 New
      0
      Quote: radio operator
      If I’m not mistaken, then in the year 2008, at an exhibition in Abu Dhabi, the 300th radio-electronic complex “conditionally shot down” all aircraft with electronic warfare systems turned on in combat mode. Our PZ and the designer joyfully rubbed their hands, there were good reasons for this. True, a tar spoon crept into this cloudless picture. They offered nothing to do (whose initiative was - I don’t remember) and let's go to SU-27 with our electronic warfare station cut off from the production version, flying over three hundredth in combat order. The result - a cold sweat on the forehead of our generals: the radar did not see the drying! They considered it an electronic malfunction, but a second flight confirmed the anxiety of the C-300 developers.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Arkan
    Arkan 3 June 2013 03: 23 New
    0
    The Kremlin raised its "geopolitical stake" in the Mediterranean by sending the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov there, writes Business Insider. This ship is extremely impressive, and the decision to use it is another link in a series of mutual injections between Russia and the United States.
    “It is planned that he will come out and perform a number of tasks in the far ocean zone as part of the group,” said Admiral Viktor Chirkov, Commander-in-Chief of the Navy. The cruiser, the publication continues, carries several carrier-based fighters and helicopters, missile systems, anti-submarine systems. The crew of the ship totals 2 people.

    "Admiral Kuznetsov" - the only aircraft carrier in the Navy. Therefore, notes Business Insider, his appearance in the Mediterranean can be safely regarded as a clear signal of the seriousness of Russia's intentions to protect its interests in the region. Some of these interests are directly related, for example, to the fate of Syria and the naval base in Tartus.

    Russia has repeatedly sent its ships to the Mediterranean Sea, recalls a resource. All of them protect Bashar al-Assad and "the land of his ancestors." And this is not counting the countless amounts of firearms, artillery and just the money that he received during the 26 months of the conflict. “No wonder Assad doesn't even think of retreating,” concludes Business Insider.
    http://warfiles.ru/show-32137-avianosec-admiral-kuznecov-beret-asada-pod-krylo.h
    tml
  • svp67
    svp67 1 June 2013 09: 31 New
    +6
    The article is from the field of "fantasies" ... Everything can only be shown by practice, in which, for the frequent, fundamental factor is the degree of preparation of calculations and the training of the command ...
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 1 June 2013 10: 49 New
      +5
      yes ...

      and a huge number of microwave ovens :))
      1. Nitup
        Nitup 1 June 2013 12: 03 New
        +3
        ideal solution: buy 1000 microwaves and place them in the desert territories of Syria and let them shoot Harmas
    2. Atrix
      Atrix 1 June 2013 11: 15 New
      -3
      Quote: svp67
      The article is from the field of "fantasies" ... Everything can only be shown by practice, in which, for the frequent, fundamental factor is the degree of preparation of calculations and the training of the command ...

      The same can be said about the S-300. How many write that the S-300 can bring down any aircraft, but in practice it was not used in combat conditions. So all of its performance characteristics are not tested in combat conditions and can be considered conditional, but real ones can only show combat use. Training of operators for the S-300 is very important, but do not forget that it will not be confronted by cadets who are at the helm the first day, but by highly trained pilots. So the iron itself is more important here, whether the S-300 can counteract electronic warfare or not.
      1. pogis
        pogis 1 June 2013 15: 46 New
        +1
        In Cyprus, the Israelis checked! Therefore, they stalled!
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 1 June 2013 16: 16 New
          +2
          It is very bad that
          Quote: pogis
          the Israelis checked
          .Slovaks also have S-300PS and the NATO Air Force conducted exercises in 2005 (this is widely known) I believe that such exercises are conducted regularly.
  • mogus
    mogus 1 June 2013 09: 37 New
    10
    IMHO.
    Before the “who whom” debate begins, you might think that no one will unleash a war. Yes, in Syria, with the help of the "opposition" they are trying to do their dirty deed, but it did not work out. We decided to help the "opposition" from outside. By its actions, Russia (C 300, Yakhont), deprives the possibility of external intervention. The Syrians themselves will figure it out.
  • Alexey Prikazchikov
    Alexey Prikazchikov 1 June 2013 09: 37 New
    -3
    Oh well, the holivar will begin now. On both sides a sea of ​​morons will run up.
  • avant-garde
    avant-garde 1 June 2013 09: 39 New
    12
    how many pussy do not fight, and the bear she is still more than
    Quote: Professor
    the United States, and NATO and the IDF.
    !!!
    1. Gemar
      Gemar 1 June 2013 12: 35 New
      10
      Quote: avant-garde
      but the bear has it anyway

      Anecdote:
      A cow was running through the forest from a pack of wolves. Frightened with fear, flees, sees nothing, just rushes. And from all the dope crashed into a tree, horns into the trunk, stuck tightly. Wolves ran past, did not notice, then.
      And then, as luck would have it, bad weather happened. It began to rain, and lightning struck straight at the cow. A cow is distraught, steam is coming from her, her eyes rolled out, her tongue fell out.
      A bunny jumps, whistles something like "there is no beast stronger than a hare." And then in front of the hare there appears a cow in the middle. He didn’t be dypak rattled and decided to see who he had dishonored. Goes around and sees - a cow with horns in a tree, tongue fell out, bulging eyes, from the muzzle of the steam goes wassat .
      A proud hare stands up in a pose and says: "Ha, this is not for you bullish pictures, this is a hare phalloc!" bully
  • report4
    report4 1 June 2013 10: 02 New
    -2
    Tomahawk vs mobile systems)? Is this a joke or is the author looking for fools?
    It works only against stationary targets because the system is like that.
    1. Professor
      Professor 1 June 2013 10: 08 New
      +4
      Quote: report4
      Tomahawk vs mobile systems)? Is this a joke or is the author looking for fools?
      It works only against stationary targets because the system is like that.

      Not a joke, take an interest in extreme upgrades.
      It is worth noting that the modern modification of Tomahawk Block IV was able to patrol in the air in standby mode and learned how to destroy moving targets.
      1. report4
        report4 1 June 2013 10: 22 New
        -1
        Yeah. And with the death rays they destroy the fish and return to the base in the event of a miss.) Teach the materiel, they lifted it up already.
        Didn’t hear about Maya when they tried to make RCC Tomahawk? But a ship, compared to a small ground target, is a much simpler target.
        1. Professor
          Professor 1 June 2013 10: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: report4
          Learn the materiel, have already pulled up.

          So be it, I will teach you materiel.
          The Block IV TLAMs have enhanced deep-strike capabilities and are equipped with a real-time targeting system for striking fleeting targets.
          Tomahawk's Chops: xGM-109 Block IV Cruise Missiles

          Continue educational program? wink
          1. report4
            report4 1 June 2013 11: 16 New
            10
            And now, get distracted from the prospectuses and study the facts of application and the reasons for abandoning the RCC tomahawk, the reasons why it cannot destroy moving targets on land, the same + the complete helplessness of the guidance system in front of the terrain. Again, raise the info on the time to prepare the missiles for launch. All this was on a gamble with analysis for all the companies where they were used.
            I don’t even want to talk about the idiotic "got the opportunity to patrol in the air in standby mode". How do you imagine that? Slow-moving log flying in circles and waiting for him to be given a tip in the coordinates)? He will be knocked out of a slingshot))) And in front of the electronic warfare system, she simply kneels.
            It is easy to distinguish an Internet layman because he operates with ADVERTISING and presents it as real facts. In fact, alas ..
            1. Professor
              Professor 1 June 2013 11: 31 New
              -2
              Quote: report4
              Now take your mind off prospectuses and study application facts and the reasons for the abandonment of the RCC tomahawk, the reasons why it cannot destroy moving targets on land the same + the complete helplessness of the guidance system in front of the terrain. Again, raise the info on the time to prepare the missiles for launch.

              Facts of using RCC Tomahawk? Against whom, when could they even be theoretically applied?

              Quote: report4
              I don’t even want to talk about the idiotic "got the opportunity to patrol in the air in standby mode". How do you imagine that? Slow-moving log flying in circles and waiting for him to be given a tip in the coordinates)? They will knock him out of a slingshot)))

              Learn the materiel. For example, about CR Delilah and the experience of its application.

              And in front of the EW complex, she just kneels.

              And in this place more. How exactly will they fight the so-called antenna with a controlled radiation pattern? wink

              Quote: report4
              It is easy to distinguish an Internet layman because he operates with ADVERTISING and presents it as real facts. In fact, alas.

              Thank you for the profane and thank you in advance for the detailed answer without the slogans. hi
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 1 June 2013 12: 13 New
                  0
                  Quote: report4
                  Liquid weapons again)?

                  Quote: report4
                  Only you use them not quite in the subject ... it would seem, but what does the electronic warfare have to do with it? Do you even know the principles of electronic warfare?

                  Outright senility went.
                  So, in front of the Tomahawk EW complex, they are equipped with a so-called antenna with a controlled radiation pattern just kneel?
                  Dear materiel, materiel. bully

                  And expand your fabrications about "application facts and reasons for abandoning RCC tomahawk. "

                  Well, you tell us about the application experience, please.

                  Dare
                  1. report4
                    report4 1 June 2013 13: 07 New
                    +8
                    Quote: Professor

                    Outright senility went.
                    So, in front of the Tomahawk EW complex, they are equipped with a so-called antenna with a controlled radiation pattern just kneel?
                    Dear materiel, materiel. bully

                    You have the mantra right: "antenna with a controlled radiation pattern." And you know that your wonderful CRPA is also on all drones ... and Oh MIRACLE! Iran quietly suppresses them with our electronic warfare. And he planted not one or two. But do not repeat further: CRPA, CRPA, CRPA. EW does not work against CRPA. laughing This manifestation of your incredible misunderstanding of the topic is likely to end our conversation.)))
                    About materiel much .. thanks, laughed.)
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 1 June 2013 15: 33 New
                      0
                      I did not expect a substantive response from the urapatriot. Again, one slogan. sad

                      Quote: report4
                      And you know that your wonderful CRPA is also on all drones ... and Oh MIRACLE! Iran quietly suppresses them with our electronic warfare. And he planted not one or two.

                      good Cool weed in your area as I look. You have photographs of neither one nor two planted. However, Kandahar birds continue to fly with impunity over Iran.

                      Quote: report4
                      This manifestation of your incredible misunderstanding of the topic is likely to end our conversation.)))
                      About materiel much .. thanks, laughed.)

                      We have already decided that I am PROFAN so enlighten. Bring FACTS RCC applications Tomahawk.
                      Teach the ignoramus how in front of the Tomahawk EW complex equipped with a so-called antenna with a controlled radiation pattern just kneel.
                      Only a request without slogans and in your own words is simple and affordable.
                      In fact, I don’t expect a normal answer because of the absolute lack of ownership of your materiel. fool
                      1. report4
                        report4 1 June 2013 16: 32 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Professor

                        good Cool weed in your area as I look. You have photographs of neither one nor two planted. However, Kandahar birds continue to fly with impunity over Iran.

                        pffff. disgrace. those. Now, "antenna with a controlled radiation pattern" is not for you protection against electronic warfare? You already decide, and then as a girl, here and there.
                        The United States itself recognized the loss of these devices.
                        At the expense of "still flying" - proofs or p-ball.

                        Thank you about the materiel. after your observation with CRPA, you will not be so funny as your accusations of not knowing anyone about the equipment.)
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 1 June 2013 16: 40 New
                        +1
                        Do you stop balabolit and answer your poles (rhetorical question)?
                        Give the FACTS of using RCC Tomahawk.
                        Teach the ignoramus how in front of the Tomahawk electronic warfare complex equipped with a so-called antenna with a controlled radiation pattern just kneels down.


                        PS
                        At the expense of "still flying" - proofs or p-ball.

                        Immediately after your proofs. wink
          2. Kars
            Kars 1 June 2013 11: 34 New
            +3
            Something you are really bad about the tomahawk.

            The experience of combat use of US-based cruise missiles and the main trends in their development

            http://topwar.ru/14195-opyt-boevogo-primeneniya-krylatyh-raket-morskogo-bazirova
            niya-ssha-i-osnovnye-tendencii-ih-razvitiya.html
        2. Tambov we ...
          Tambov we ... 1 June 2013 15: 02 New
          0
          Go on. Only all your bravura "conclusions" come from the imaginary attack of the entire armada of democrats, which supposedly will give time and place to fit floating airfields, send Jewish tergroups and much more. And if not so? And if tergroups will kill countertergroups, and floating airfields will be drowned and eventually fighter aircraft will fly out and Israeli cities will be covered by a mass of missiles - MLRS, Points, Iskander? Will the tanks go? And the infantry divisions? Was such a scenario calculated?
          1. faraon
            faraon 2 June 2013 15: 58 New
            +1
            This scenario is not real for several reasons: 1). Special groups walk around Syria at home.
            2) Floating airfields are already in the Mediterranean.
            3). Syria has very weak fighter aircraft compared to Israel.
            4). Russia will not intervene in this conflict, as well as the United States because this will lead to World War 3 to the maximum, and at a minimum to the transition of the conflict to the regional level, in which both great powers are not interested.
            5) .Which divisions and tanks are we talking about.
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 2 June 2013 16: 12 New
              +1
              Interestingly, at home, special groups also sometimes die in full force? But in Syria - it happens.
      2. Santa Fe
        1 June 2013 11: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: report4
        Didn’t hear about Maya when they tried to make RCC tomahawk?

        What is the maya? The anti-ship BGM-109B was created and has been in service for a dozen years.

        She had a number of advantages:

        - low flight altitude on the WHOLE route (unlike the P-700 and other super-missiles, that at launch they soared 10 ... 20 km upwards and became visible over hundreds of kilometers)

        - huge range - more than 400 km

        - the possibility of barrage ("snake" on the sea)

        - powerful warhead ~ 450 kg

        - small dimensions and cost

        and disadvantages:
        - low flight speed, which led to obsolescence of the flight mission (hence the “snake” and the search for the target on the final section of the route)

        Withdrawn from service due to lack of tasks for it (the USSR Navy collapsed with the USSR)
        1. report4
          report4 1 June 2013 12: 39 New
          +7
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

          What is the maya? The anti-ship BGM-109B was created and has been in service for a dozen years.
          She had a number of advantages:
          and. low altitude on ALL route
          b. huge range - more than 400 km
          at. the possibility of barrage ("snake" on the sea)
          powerful warhead ~ 450 kg
          e. small size and cost

          Withdrawn from service due to lack of tasks for it (the USSR Navy collapsed with the USSR)

          You are mistaken a comrade. You miss a huge number of important points.
          I apologize for shortening your post, but it will be necessary because there will be an overkvot.
          and. "low altitude on the entire route" does not matter if the missile is extremely vulnerable to air defense due to its low speed and large dimensions. Call it a "virtue"? hmmmm .. no, definitely not.
          b. A large preparation time - a minimum of 6 hours (for a single prepared launch) and low speed make the launch of its launch somewhat belated. But then again, it does not matter because of point "a".
          at. One of the most useless properties for subsonic anti-ship missiles, for some reason, fell into the "dignity" column.
          Mr. Has, well, that he has. To convey more.
          e. Small size and cost)? Compared to the "harpoon"?
          It’s strange, but a huge amount of other weapons intended specifically for the war with the USSR remained on duty .. it’s unclean.)) It was removed for a completely banal reason - this rubbish is notable.
          1. Santa Fe
            1 June 2013 16: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: report4
            and. "low altitude on the entire route" does not matter if the missile is extremely vulnerable to air defense due to its low speed and large dimensions

            The detection range of the BGM-109B TASM by ship radar did not exceed 20-30 km. This distance "Ax" flew in 1,5 minutes. For comparison, the super-high-speed P-700 Granite flew the same distance in a minute. However, the difference is small ...
            Quote: report4
            b. Long preparation time - at least 6 hours (for a single prepared launch)

            Where are such wild numbers ??
            V-2 and then cooked faster)))
            Quote: report4
            e. Small size and cost)? Compared to the "harpoon"?

            Harpoon starting weight ~ 650 ... 700 kg
            Starting weight BGM-109B Tomahawk ~ 1200 kg

            At the same time, the Ax had twice the mass of warheads and the second large flight range.
            Quote: report4
            at. One of the most useless properties for subsonic anti-ship missiles, for some reason, fell into the "dignity" column.

            Why is this conclusion made?
            The self-search mode "snake" allowed you to complete the task when the exact coordinates of the target are unknown
            1. Professor
              Professor 1 June 2013 16: 42 New
              +1
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Where are such wild numbers ??

              This was with the first models when a digital terrain map was loaded in the RS-232 type. Now they load a similar map in minutes, and even then not all, but only of the final flight path.
              1. Santa Fe
                1 June 2013 17: 47 New
                +4
                Quote: Professor
                This was with the first models when a digital terrain map was loaded in the RS-232 type. Now they load a similar map in minutes, and even then not all, but only of the final flight path.

                But BGM-109B did not use TERKOM (what relief over water? Waves are the same everywhere)

                At the anti-ship Ax it was much simpler - the usual homing head from Harpoon. All that remains is the whole coordinate of the launch site and untwist gyroscopes ... where is six hours from ??
                1. Professor
                  Professor 1 June 2013 19: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  where is six o'clock ??

                  From a sick fantasy.
        2. Army1
          Army1 1 June 2013 18: 34 New
          +3
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          unlike the P-700 and other super-missiles, that at launch they soared 10 ... 20 km higher and became visible over hundreds of kilometers)

          The EPR of the P 700 was quite small, so for hundreds .... you exaggerate.
    2. fisherman
      fisherman 1 June 2013 10: 52 New
      +4
      thanks for the info...

      I can imagine with what appetite these penny tomahawks will be worn for ruble auto-carts :))
      1. Santa Fe
        1 June 2013 11: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: fisherman
        I can imagine with what appetite these penny tomahawks will be worn for ruble auto-carts

        the cost of "Tomahawk" Block IV - 2 million dollars.
        the cost of S-300 air defense systems is $ 115 million.
        1. fisherman
          fisherman 1 June 2013 17: 55 New
          +2
          "It is worth noting that the modern modification of the Tomahawk Block IV got the ability to patrol in the air in standby mode and learned to destroy moving targets."

          my answer related specifically to this unique opportunity of a "cheap" tomahawk to rush about a "ruble" auto junk :))

          and rearranged the quotes ...
  • Redpartyzan
    Redpartyzan 1 June 2013 10: 02 New
    14
    Without Russian military experts, it’s unlikely to be able to organize a worthy defense of the Syrian sky. On this site, it appeared more than once that our anti-aircraft gunners fought in Vietnam or in Egypt. Without going into details: the losses were serious, with us. You should not consider 6 C 300 as a panacea for the threat of foreign invasion. This is just one drop from that sea of ​​measures that are being taken by the governments of the two states. Although certainly a drop is significant. But the settlement of the conflict cannot be achieved only by the presence of 300, but only by the courage of the Syrian soldiers fighting with the rebels on the streets of Syrian cities and the art of the laurel team.
  • omsbon
    omsbon 1 June 2013 10: 07 New
    +9
    If the S-300, as a factor in deterring aggression, does not work, then the main thing is that it would ensure the uninterrupted flow of coffins to the United States and Israel!
    1. sergaivenski
      sergaivenski 1 June 2013 11: 11 New
      +4
      If our Kremlinologists hadn’t clicked their beaks, our S-300s would have long been in Syria !!!
      The situation of 1999 is repeated: everyone, especially NATO, is talking about peace, but they are doing everything to start a large-scale war !!! A lot of blood has already been shed, putting all sides of the conflict at the negotiating table is simply absurd !!!
      Now, behind the backs of all parties to the conflict, anyone is standing and these backstage players will not give in !!! Do not go to a fortuneteller !!!
  • andrey777
    andrey777 1 June 2013 10: 09 New
    +3
    The article is ambiguous, it feels like somewhere here is a catch (everything is so good and smooth with NATO), but for verification it turns out that this is all (airplanes, etc.) it’s very expensive to allow entry against the s-300. And amers can count money .
  • B25
    B25 1 June 2013 10: 16 New
    +3
    Thanks for the analytics. This article was not enough. But, it seems to me that the cover scheme of the C300 is not completely described. From the article you can understand that the C300 is a launcher and a radar freestanding in a clean field.
    1. NickitaDembelnulsa
      NickitaDembelnulsa 1 June 2013 10: 45 New
      0
      Well, of course! The S-300 complex also includes KP and the people who service this miracle. Without people, technology is not capable of anything.
  • avt
    avt 1 June 2013 10: 21 New
    13
    Quote: andrey777
    The article is ambiguous, it feels like somewhere here is a catch (

    And the catch is that for some reason many consider the existence of the very fact of the existence of the S-300 a guarantee of everything. And in the article, in a popular, accessible form, it is said that rolling out equipment from the factory floor does not guarantee world peace. To the author + I would put the second plus for mentioning F / A-18 knowing the author’s love for aircraft carriers. laughing
    1. Santa Fe
      1 June 2013 11: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: avt
      I would put the second plus for the mention of F / A-18, knowing ,, the author’s love for aircraft carriers

      And here are the aircraft carriers?
      F / A-18 work well with ground airfields

      The same naval "Growler" - during the bombing of Libya, the EA-18G flew with AB Sigonella (Italy)
      1. avt
        avt 1 June 2013 11: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        And here are the aircraft carriers?

        Yes, I'm joking, do not be offended. laughing But if you simulate an invasion situation, they will not do without them, if only in order to complicate the work of air defense, creating another direction of striking
        1. Santa Fe
          1 June 2013 12: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: avt
          But if you simulate an invasion situation, they will not do without them.

          If you have nowhere to spend bucks - please
          Quote: avt
          creating another strike direction

          It’s easier for land planes from Ingirlik to make a “hook” over the sea
          There, all the distances are tiny - less than the Moscow region

          ps / Syria - clearly a bad example for fans of carrier-based aviation

          1. avt
            avt 1 June 2013 12: 47 New
            -1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            It’s easier for land planes from Ingirlik to make a “hook” over the sea

            You can, but you can just from all sides.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            If you have nowhere to spend bucks - please

            Well, as the PMC broadcasted, “They scared a woman with high-heeled shoes,” they will print it, then, as in Iraq, they will dump paper on the occupied territory, while most of them will be pulled into their pockets and compensated with oil and pipeline transit. calculation of 10 = $ 12 per barrel.
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 1 June 2013 15: 20 New
      +5
      Quote: avt
      I would put the second plus for the mention of F / A-18 knowing the author’s "love" for aircraft carriers.

      The growler is, of course, cool. It is effective both as a jammer and as a drummer, and can lead an air battle.
      By the way, it was precisely one of the Growlers who managed to "overwhelm the Dinosaur" in educational battles
      Conditionally shoot down the F-22.
  • Alikovo
    Alikovo 1 June 2013 10: 27 New
    +1
    15-20 zr-s-300 completely block the sky of Syria.
  • RUS-36
    RUS-36 1 June 2013 10: 29 New
    10
    The S-300 will not solve the problem, against the whole West and Jews against Bashar, the question of the time of its elimination is sad but ... most likely it will be so. Sincerely sorry ..... Really look at past companies before putting a minus. This does not mean that there is no chance, they are, but they are very small.
    1. atalef
      atalef 1 June 2013 10: 39 New
      -14
      Quote: RUS-36
      against the Bashar the whole West and the Jews,

      In general, the list had to start like this. Arabs, Turks, West, USA, and we are somewhere in the end.
      1. Metlik
        Metlik 1 June 2013 11: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: atalef
        In general, the list had to start like this. Arabs, Turks, West, USA, and we are somewhere in the end.

        We have nothing to do with it)).
        But are Arabs, Turks, the West, the United States formally in a state of war with Syria? Sending their planes to bomb Syria?
    2. mogus
      mogus 1 June 2013 11: 09 New
      0
      there is still a bunch of Russia-China, which has a common interest in the solution. And it is not in the interests of the "bundle" of military invasion. Well, we’ll not get there ourselves. So nothing is clear yet ...
      1. Atrix
        Atrix 1 June 2013 11: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: mogus
        there is still a bunch of Russia-China, which has a common interest in the solution. And it is not in the interests of the "bundle" of military invasion. Well, we’ll not get there ourselves. So nothing is clear yet ...

        China, as always, took a smart position; it is watching how its geopolitical opponents will confront. And he doesn’t interfere anywhere. So do not rely on China. China knows when to get tough and when not.
        1. Guun
          Guun 1 June 2013 14: 27 New
          +2
          It is precisely China that knows how they sent a warning to the UN that the allies would cross the 38th parallel they would intervene. Intervened - the young DPRK was saved, the allies miscalculated, Korea was divided in half. At the expense of Iran, China also announced that it would not offend a sovereign state that supplies it with 40% or more of oil for it. It is possible that Iran, in the event of an invasion of Syria, will watch its friend beat if China gives the go-ahead. Iranian forces will do everything to stop the occupation of Syria, because the big brother is behind him.
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 1 June 2013 14: 48 New
          +1
          How long has it been all-time? China will always be, and will always be in the military field. We teach history.
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 1 June 2013 14: 54 New
            -1
            Quote: alicante11
            How long has it been all-time? China will always be, and will always be in the military field. We teach history.

            You want to say that the Americans from the Chinese have never draped? smile
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 1 June 2013 15: 20 New
              0
              From the Chinese alone - never. Or am I missing something?
              1. Arkan
                Arkan 1 June 2013 15: 47 New
                -2
                It was from the "Chinese volunteers" (the troops of North Korea were almost routed at that time) that the USSR helped only with trucks and aviation at the initial stage, but the pilots were ordered not to get closer to the combat zone closer than 100 km ...
                1. alicante11
                  alicante11 1 June 2013 16: 12 New
                  -1
                  Well, again, not from the Chinese alone. Ours helped with aviation and weapons. And the Koreans themselves held the blow. And the Chinese simply stupidly piled up in bulk. True, they could not free the entire peninsula. Doesn’t.
                  1. Arkan
                    Arkan 1 June 2013 16: 27 New
                    0
                    Quote: alicante11
                    Well, again, not from the Chinese alone. Ours helped with aviation and weapons.

                    Not so much ours helped them then - this was one of the reasons for the cooling of relations. The USSR declared that it would intervene in the conflict only if America used nuclear weapons (some people had such ideas in the USA after the Chinese slap in the face). Yes, and not with the Americans alone. they fought there ... Anyway - without the intervention of the "Chinese volunteers" North Korea would not exist now.
                  2. Arkan
                    Arkan 1 June 2013 16: 35 New
                    0
                    Quote: alicante11
                    True, they could not free the entire peninsula. Doesn’t.

                    What then can be said about the Americans, who generally considered the intervention of China impossible because of the problems of providing warring Chinese units? Well, they did not take into account the fact that China is able to allocate a dozen porters for each fighter ... smile And now China has both weapons and vehicles.
                    1. alicante11
                      alicante11 2 June 2013 03: 11 New
                      0
                      Does this somehow cancel the fact of non-liberation of the peninsula?
                      1. Arkan
                        Arkan 2 June 2013 12: 04 New
                        -1
                        The two warring parties set themselves the tasks: the United States and the allies - the capture of North Korea, China - its defense. The war is won by those who achieve their goals. In this case, it was China.
                      2. alicante11
                        alicante11 2 June 2013 13: 22 New
                        -1
                        Rather, both sides lost the war. Half of Korea remained occupied by amers. And half remained free.
                        However, we are talking about the combat effectiveness of China. In the event of war, any VD will force it. It’s simply due to the destruction of infrastructure, without which a billion Chinese will simply die of starvation, when they can’t deliver the necessary amount of food and other supplies to the cities. Also, the Chinese army was always large, but protected from everyone, because, due to logistics, it could not concentrate all forces in one direction and a minority was obtained.
                      3. Arkan
                        Arkan 2 June 2013 13: 41 New
                        -2
                        Yes, China is strategically vulnerable, and the Chinese understand this very well, I think that’s why their leaders often went to Moscow. In the event of a possible confrontation with the West, China is doomed to defeat, but in alliance with Russia, China will have the necessary resource base. they are rapidly reducing, they have one of the most disciplined armies, in battles they have proved more than once that they are ready to go to the end ... Doesn’t build them not to evaluate.
                      4. alicante11
                        alicante11 2 June 2013 15: 10 New
                        +1
                        Here I agree. Moreover, not only the resource base, but also a secured market.
                        And do not underestimate either, although overestimate too :).
                  3. Pimply
                    Pimply 2 June 2013 15: 19 New
                    0
                    You have something with a history of trouble. Do you even know how the Korean War began?
                  4. alicante11
                    alicante11 2 June 2013 16: 16 New
                    0
                    Better than yours, Jewish analyst. The Korean war began with an attempt to free part of the Korean peninsula from the pro-American puppet South Korean regime. At what this goal was almost achieved by the Koreans. But then the owners of this regime intervened. And they had to carry them forward with the help of the USSR and China.
                  5. Pimply
                    Pimply 2 June 2013 16: 25 New
                    0
                    Actually, I didn’t communicate with you. Well, if you climbed in, wave more slogans. Amuse the audience. Do you know how many countries took part in hostilities on the Korean peninsula, and that the UN forces fought quite officially on the side of South Korea?

                    Funny you call the attempt to seize territories "the struggle for liberation." However, the South Korean regime could hardly be called sugar. But the North Korean liberation is even funnier 8))
          2. Banzai
            Banzai 6 June 2013 17: 21 New
            0
            "Well, they did not take into account the fact that China is capable of allocating a dozen porters for each fighter ..."

            I didn’t hear anything about porters, but I especially liked that every Chinese soldier carried a bundle of wood that was scarce in those parts. Whatever the strain of North Korean civilians.
  • Lakkuchu
    Lakkuchu 1 June 2013 10: 30 New
    +2
    Thanks for the article, interesting and informative. A serious set of weapons. The enemy cannot be underestimated; you have to pay dearly for this. We are waiting for the reaction of earpickers.
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 1 June 2013 11: 05 New
      +1
      and no one is going to throw caps ...

      it’s just that these comrades will have to spend billions to destroy millions ...

      will have to, because blah blah did not fail, and Assad does not leave, and groups of bearded men with a light rifle are useless ...

      and with each passing month, the value of the future campaign for the democratization of the BV will only increase, it’s obvious ...
      1. Santa Fe
        1 June 2013 11: 36 New
        0
        Quote: fisherman
        it’s just that these comrades will have to spend billions to destroy millions ...

        The official cost of S-300 air defense systems is $ 115 million, excluding ammunition

        6 x 115 ~ 700 million + rockets
        1. fisherman
          fisherman 1 June 2013 16: 46 New
          0
          "The official cost of S-300 air defense systems is 115 million dollars, excluding ammunition

          6 x 115 ~ 700 million + rockets "

          thank...

          I'm talking about a ground operation, and Kadaffi, in my opinion, was not in vain killed in public, and even with an official cry (Wow) ...

          that is, the next "bloody despot" (Assad) was to leave quickly on the silk of fingers, and leave the country to new masters ...

          and now every month the cost of a future campaign is increasing by yards ...

          Pomom, everything is obvious ...
    2. SergeySK
      SergeySK 1 June 2013 11: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: Lakkuchu
      Thanks for the article, interesting and informative. A serious set of weapons. The enemy cannot be underestimated; you have to pay dearly for this. We are waiting for the reaction of earpickers.


      I won’t throw any earflaps at you! I will repeat what I said above!

      It will be the shell of S1-koi that will cover the S-300; all this shit with electronic warfare on the drum, it copes well in the optical mode!
  • sevtrash
    sevtrash 1 June 2013 10: 32 New
    +1
    ... followed by firing anti-aircraft missiles at an active homing Alas, not one of the modern air defense systems has such fantastic modes of operation ...
    Do Daring and Aster not? Zumwalt will also seem to be.
    1. Santa Fe
      1 June 2013 11: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: sevtrash
      Do Daring and Aster not? Zumwalt will also seem to be.

      It was not about missiles with an active seeker, but about the possibility of obtaining target designation from AWACS and AES
      Similar operating modes of SAM systems do not exist today.

      Zamvolt ZUR with an active seeker will not have any in the near future (not counting the self-defense ESSM) - it has an excellent AN / SPY-3 radar with an active phased array (hundreds of simultaneous guidance channels)
  • Fregate
    Fregate 1 June 2013 10: 41 New
    +8
    The whole world will go to the S-300 division (and just Syria) and they will still be proud of "we won." Star-striped eagles ... with chicken jo ... It’s even funny.
    1. Santa Fe
      1 June 2013 11: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: Fregate
      The whole world will go to the S-300 division (and just Syria) and they will still be proud of “we won”

      I agree that you need to break through the defense of single Tu-22M3.
      And even better - with earflaps. Then - real men !!
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 1 June 2013 14: 50 New
        +2
        But still win. These are real men
  • Black
    Black 1 June 2013 10: 42 New
    +1
    The volume of supplies that is possible, the level of training of the natives will not withstand full-blown air aggression, if any.
    I think that TAM is not fools and knows the techniques of "asymmetry". Israeli special forces can do a lot.
  • Nomad
    Nomad 1 June 2013 10: 51 New
    +1
    S-300 - the best remedy for "democracy", not counting the S-400!
  • rus9875
    rus9875 1 June 2013 10: 54 New
    +6
    The S-300 has never taken part in real hostilities. Therefore, the only benefit from the delivery of systems to Syria is the opportunity to see it in action because whatever the author says about the “genius of designers” that the S-300, , ahead of time by 25 years "- these are just words. To find out how effective it can be only by seeing in a collision with modern air forces. Most likely, in the event of a massive attack, it is unlikely that something will survive from 6 complexes in a couple of hours after the start of hostilities - the question is even not this, the question is what kind of losses he can inflict on the attacking side
    1. Santa Fe
      1 June 2013 11: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: rus9875
      ,, the genius of the designers "that the S-300 was 25 years ahead of time" are just words

      No, not just words
      Even purely from the technical point of view, the complex is extremely perfect - what are only TPKs (ours guessed the first, 30 years ago) and the vertical start of SAM!
      1. rus9875
        rus9875 1 June 2013 12: 01 New
        +3
        all right, the only trouble is that these 25 years of advancing have already passed 10 years ago So far we have been “rebuilding" the rest of the world was building
    2. andrey777
      andrey777 1 June 2013 13: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: rus9875
      the question is what losses can he inflict on the attacking side

      This is what confuses the fighters for democracy angry
  • lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 1 June 2013 10: 58 New
    +4
    It’s interesting, why in this case does the shtatovskaya little dog with a six-pointed star squeal and spray NATA snot?
    1. Atrix
      Atrix 1 June 2013 11: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: lewerlin53rus
      It’s interesting, why in this case does the shtatovskaya little dog with a six-pointed star squeal and spray NATA snot?

      Have you seen tantrums somewhere? Israel asked not to supply the S-300, but said if you put it, they will destroy the S-300 in Syria. And there were no more tantrums as you wrote. Is this exactly the same reaction when Russia asked not to supply arms to Georgia, do you think Russia, as a snotty girl, also rolled up hysteria over the supply of arms to Georgia?
      1. AlNikolaich
        AlNikolaich 1 June 2013 14: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Atrix
        Is this exactly the same reaction when Russia asked not to supply arms to Georgia, do you think Russia, as a snotty girl, also rolled up hysteria over the supply of arms to Georgia?

        Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs! C-300-weapon for defense against aggression from the air! And in the case of Georgia, she was an aggressor!
        1. Banzai
          Banzai 6 June 2013 17: 33 New
          0
          "Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs! S-300-weapon for defense against aggression from the air!"
          Some members of the forum rightly wrote about the flawed tactics of pure defense. No matter how strong the wall is, it will always be pierced; it is only a matter of time. But at the same time, it seems to me that the geographical dimensions of the countries and the range of the S-300 were forgotten. Which can attack targets deep inside Israel. That is, the eternal "doesn’t work here" without going into the coverage area of ​​the air defense systems. Israeli planes interfered and released sharma and other dirty tricks. "
      2. alicante11
        alicante11 1 June 2013 14: 52 New
        0
        Yeah, at the same time, a whole pilgrimage to the GDP for a reception, with everything in large ranks. And the chief chief himself also 3 hour and kept in the reception.
  • Bort radist
    Bort radist 1 June 2013 11: 03 New
    +7
    Good article, informative. Shows that often ordinary people see only part of the iceberg. How to shoot down and break through is extremely difficult. Success schemes are not illuminated and often on over-expensive solutions there is a cheap move (joker in the sleeve.) Here you can take a hundred microwaves or ......... "Anti-radar missiles are not particularly selective. HARMs beat everything - from the antennas of FM radio stations, to microwaves and satellite phones"
  • Andrew 58
    Andrew 58 1 June 2013 11: 05 New
    +1
    Thank you for the article. Informative.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 1 June 2013 11: 11 New
    -11
    Throughout the second half of the 20th century, the Soviet Union fought with the United States (North Korea, Vietnam, Angola, Egypt, and much more). Now, American troops are in Ulyanovsk, and the head of state stubbornly calls potential enemies partners. It seems to me more important. than deliveries to Syria. Or rather carry more equipment and military there. advisors, then there will be a result.
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 1 June 2013 14: 54 New
      +3
      But who told you that NATO troops are in Ulyanovsk? Can you give at least a photo of the checkpoint of this NATO military base, with star mattresses and gallant marines at the entrance? What nonsense to carry? They don’t even carry anything there after all. Again, everything went through Pakistan.
  • KBACYPA
    KBACYPA 1 June 2013 11: 12 New
    +4
    I don’t remember who said, but ... "The best means of air defense are our tanks at the enemy airfield." According to the information available to me (as it actually was - HZ), neither Milosevic, nor Saddam, nor Gaddafi made any attempts to strike at the airfields. Either the mind was not enough, or the will, or something else, or the media didn’t make a sound ... Several RDGs with Metis, Cornets or something similar (having the corresponding warhead) with 2-3 km pounding in parking lots, barracks, warehouses and - that's all. The airfield is not functioning. The protection of the airfield is “sharpened” mainly to prevent penetration and it is simply not possible to block the territory with such a radius. Even with the appropriate electronics. Then, if possible, the RDGs penetrate the territory and frolic there until they get bored. Or until everything is torn to pieces and smithereens. If I'm wrong, who will tell you where?
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 1 June 2013 11: 44 New
      +2
      Gaddafi, in principle, did not have such an opportunity, Hussein - yes, he was too passive during the concentration (time of the greatest vulnerability of the troops) of the invasion forces, but the Serbs managed to destroy several helicopters on the ground.
    2. Atrix
      Atrix 1 June 2013 11: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: KBACYPA
      Several RDGs with "Metis", "Cornets" or something similar (having the appropriate warhead) from 2-3 km beat in parking lots, barracks, warehouses and that's all. The airfield is not functioning. The protection of the airfield is “sharpened” mainly to prevent penetration and it is simply not possible to block the territory with such a radius. Even with the appropriate electronics. Then, if possible, the RDGs penetrate the territory and frolic there until they get bored. Or until everything is torn to pieces and smithereens. If I'm wrong, who will tell you where?

      What are 2-3km on the airfield? Have you played games? How did the same Miloshevii / Sadam / Gaddafi have to strike at NATO countries? In order to approach 2-3 km to the airfield, you first need to invade the territory of NATO countries, and then break into the airfields with fights, that fantasy and sooner these countries will build the Death Star, with which they can conduct a successful invasion of NATO countries.
      1. KBACYPA
        KBACYPA 1 June 2013 23: 24 New
        +2
        What is the intrusion? What are you talking about? If you do not know the decoding of the acronym RDG, then this is a reconnaissance group. But the “Cornet” and “Metis” are portable, I emphasize: WEAPONRY missile systems. Initially - anti-tank, and now - depending on which warhead (warhead) to put. Or do you think the presence of the above-mentioned leaders of the special forces units is also a fantasy?
        1. Atrix
          Atrix 2 June 2013 00: 06 New
          -3
          Quote: KBACYPA
          What is the intrusion? What are you talking about? If you do not know the decoding of the acronym RDG, then this is a reconnaissance group. But the “Cornet” and “Metis” are portable, I emphasize: WEAPONRY missile systems. Initially - anti-tank, and now - depending on which warhead (warhead) to put. Or do you think the presence of the above-mentioned leaders of the special forces units is also a fantasy?

          How are you going to land RDG? How are you going to deliver weapons? Is there no security? All that you wrote is not realistic for countries such as Syria, Libya, Iraq.
          1. KBACYPA
            KBACYPA 2 June 2013 01: 10 New
            +3
            Ways of infiltration - a wagon and a small cart, ranging from throwing with a parachute (of course, not to the object itself) and ending with disguise as smugglers. Weapon delivery is the same song: there are a lot of options from "we had it with us" to bookmarking caches with delivery through third countries. Security controls the perimeter and maximum of half a kilometer (this is with technical means of protection), and the launch range of the Metis ATGM is up to 2 km. “Cornet”, depending on the modification, is up to 5 km. These ATGMs have been in service for a long time and are available in almost all countries procured from the USSR. So to get and deliver is not a problem. This option is just quite real. Cheap and cheerful.
            1. Atrix
              Atrix 2 June 2013 02: 25 New
              +1
              Okay, let's say you somehow got to the base. What will you do next? Aircraft are either in hangars or they are not particularly visible for a couple of kilometers. Further, as you write, shoot on the runway, as they wrote here now, you will restore this strip in a couple of hours. And Shooting from Metis and Cornet at the base, it is equivalent to shooting from a children's air gun at an elephant. For serious damage to the airfield, completely different means are needed.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 2 June 2013 02: 28 New
                0
                In principle, for this you need to literally "plow" the runway
              2. KBACYPA
                KBACYPA 2 June 2013 14: 14 New
                0
                And what the hell to beat on the runway and caponiers? Priority goals are KDP (control and dispatch center), barracks (or where they have pilots there), fuel and lubricant depots, and communication centers. They are protected not so much, and an airplane without a pilot, dispatcher, communications and fuel will not fly far. The plane, although expensive, but is manufactured in a week, but its service staff from the pilot to the technician and dispatcher ... Training of qualified personnel flies a pretty penny. And war is "money, money, and again money" (c)
                1. Professor
                  Professor 2 June 2013 14: 43 New
                  +3
                  Quote: KBACYPA
                  Priority goals are KDP (control and dispatch center), barracks (or where they have pilots there), fuel and lubricant depots, and communication centers.

                  Military camps have always been the weak points of aviation, including the USSR.
          2. old man54
            old man54 2 June 2013 04: 14 New
            0
            n-yes, the guy outplayed the computer!: (((
          3. urus12
            urus12 2 June 2013 21: 30 New
            0
            What do you know about reality!?
    3. urus12
      urus12 2 June 2013 21: 27 New
      0
      I want to ask where did such data come from. Have you studied special training. Because there are some deviations in this direction?
      1. KBACYPA
        KBACYPA 4 June 2013 06: 26 New
        0
        Hmm ... I studied it - it’s said a lot. It was just that during and immediately after the collapse of the USSR, while visiting a friend, I heard adult conversations (we were at that time about 12-14 years old), his father and all that environment was “uniform”. Airborne Forces, Air Force, communications, air defense. Maybe there was a special. Alas, at that moment we were interested in hand-to-hand combat and shooting. But tactics, interaction, and other wisdom were of little interest, but, you see, something was remembered. And, as they say, the Internet is to help us. Oh, I’d like to talk to them now ...
  • Locksmith
    Locksmith 1 June 2013 11: 19 New
    +8
    At C300, a missile flies five times faster than Harma, especially since the backlight is external and it may not be from the gun that shoots, and if a complex like C300B then a mobile-shot-crawled away from sin, the harm will fly into an empty place, and more in the 80s there was a good method of dealing with harms — a couple of defendants and a station work in turn, the harness is pointed exactly in the middle between them, then the harness is not very fast and very suitable for the shell. wink
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 3 June 2013 17: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Locksmith
      back in the 80s there was a good technique for dealing with harms; they work

      I didn’t know that this Vietnamese air defense experience turned out to be in the 80s!
      bully
  • Roll
    Roll 1 June 2013 11: 22 New
    +1
    angry Deliveries from -300 to Syria is certainly good, but it will be of little use, the author forgot to mention that Syria is full of Jewish spies and agents and that the location of air defense systems will be quickly located, and amers will transmit satellite data to the Israelis. Syria is not so strange and large, so the Israeli attack on a couple of dozen Merkav 4s and heavy infantry fighting vehicles will not be stopped by the Syrians. They will destroy all or a large part of the S-300 with ease and cheaply enough; aviation or multiple launch rocket systems will finish off the rest.
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 1 June 2013 11: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Rolm
      the Israeli attack of a couple of dozen Merkav 4 and heavy infantry fighting vehicles will be stopped by the Syrians nothing.

      Not a real task for such a modest armored group. Yes and the Merkavas were built for completely different purposes (they are too slow).
      1. Santa Fe
        1 June 2013 12: 25 New
        -1
        Quote: Arkan
        Merkava ... (they are too slow).

        Slow compared to the MiG-29?
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 12: 32 New
        -2
        Quote: Arkan

        Not a real task for such a modest armored group. Yes and the Merkavas were built for completely different purposes (they are too slow).

        Why is this? The triples and fours have excellent engines and transmission. By the way, the average speed of armored vehicles, regardless of its type, on the battlefield do you know? On average 22 / 27 km / h.
        1. Arkan
          Arkan 1 June 2013 12: 41 New
          +2
          Well, count how long it will take to crush several S-300 systems deployed in tanks over a fairly large territory. Even if you imagine that the Syrian army will not have any resistance, the missile forces will have enough time to send missiles to Israel (and maybe even change positions). This is a crazy idea in every way.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 1 June 2013 13: 18 New
            -5
            What does the tank have to do with it? There are groups like Maglan that use special long-range guided missiles that strike several tens of kilometers. Such a rocket is capable of falling at such a distance into the desired window of the selected house. What tanks, why are you?
            1. Tambov we ...
              Tambov we ... 1 June 2013 15: 11 New
              0
              Process Hurricanes and Tornadoes in the territory where these Maglans settled and that's it. The tanks will go further.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 1 June 2013 17: 19 New
                0
                And how to discover, tell?
                1. Roll
                  Roll 1 June 2013 17: 48 New
                  +1
                  bully Israeli agents will report, for example, they will call a mobile phone in a mosad, and they will also offer a photo from an iPhone.
            2. Roll
              Roll 1 June 2013 17: 47 New
              0
              sad And why not tanks cheap and cheerful.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 29 New
                -1
                There are people in the tanks. People are not cheap.
          2. Roll
            Roll 1 June 2013 17: 46 New
            0
            angry And why are several those S-300 complexes that will be located within reach of Merkav destroyed and those that will be destroyed 500 kilometers from the border in another way, for example, they will incite militants from A. Syria.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 18: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Rolm
              , and those that are beyond 500 kilometers from the border will be destroyed in another way, for example, they will incite militants from A. Syria.

              Those who are not just for 500, but for 200 km from the borders of Israel will stand, we do not care.
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 1 June 2013 14: 57 New
          +1
          Yeah, they just won’t reach, not because of speed, but because of sudden technical failures due to the fault of the enemy’s armed forces.
      3. Roll
        Roll 1 June 2013 17: 43 New
        -3
        angry And why not real, even the 10 mercenary will pass through the Syrian defense like a knife in oil, and the mercans have the opportunity to lead 5 paratroopers, and the C-300 need a lot, the line from the heavy machine gun on containers with missiles.
        1. Genady1976
          Genady1976 1 June 2013 17: 50 New
          +2
          Have you heard about RPG 29 Chenish.
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 18: 12 New
          +7
          Quote: Rolm
          angry And why not real, even the 10 mercenary will pass through the Syrian defense like a knife in oil, and the mercans have the opportunity to lead 5 paratroopers, and the C-300 need a lot, the line from the heavy machine gun on containers with missiles.

          Are you kidding me? I served in the 601 Engineering Battalion of SO AOI and believe me I know what I'm talking about. To break through the defense of the Syrians in the Damascus region, at least 4 vehicles had to be used, and this without taking into account the actions of troops in other directions. Are you planning to break through the 14 ATS divisions with a tank company?
          1. Roll
            Roll 1 June 2013 21: 08 New
            +3
            wassat Let's not make fools of Jewish commanders, they have quite a lot of professional commanders. What the task looks like. Firstly, getting into the port and deploying the S-300 is imperceptibly difficult. This is traceable. Suppose a couple of systems stand 150 km from the Jewish border. There are gaps in any defense, and even more so in the Syrian one. One thing is a direct battle and another thing is a sudden blow to a vulnerable spot. Jewish commanders may well figure out the optimal route. Breaking an hour at 11 o’clock at night and leaving during the night march to position c300 at 6 a.m. will be unexpected. 150-200 kilometers for the tankers of the night march aces is quite capable. It's not a battle
            1. Roll
              Roll 1 June 2013 21: 16 New
              +1
              laughing There are quite a few examples of such raids in military history, for example, 9 abrams and 2 ravings during the Iraq war made more than 250 km march on Iraqi rear and destroyed many Iraqi tanks, there is a report on this in YouTube, but in general Aron agrees with you if there is no suitable route, it is impossible. But some things that seem fantastic in life were fulfilled, for example, the release of hostages in an African country, the chances of success were even less, but the operation went off with a bang.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 31 New
              -1
              I don’t understand - why ??? If there are dozens of simpler and less problematic ways to do this. WHAT FOR???
              1. Roll
                Roll 2 June 2013 10: 47 New
                0
                angry Sometimes the threat, better than the action, the threat of a breakthrough by the mercenaries, will force the Syrians in certain areas of the S-300 not to pose, and of the simple ways, there are many of them, the author’s problem is that he considers only airborne methods of fighting, and there are land and Syria is especially vulnerable here , for example, when relocating with -300, it can hit them, especially on containers with missiles, a sniper, a suicide bomber, a bird operator, a mortar and so on. And if c -300 is stored in a tunnel in one place, then it will be destroyed in another.
        3. Arkan
          Arkan 3 June 2013 01: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: Rolm
          And why not real, even the 10 mercenary will pass through the Syrian defense like a knife in oil, and the mercans have the opportunity to lead 5 paratroopers, and the C-300 need a lot, the line from the heavy machine gun on containers with missiles.

          It would be interesting to look at the expressions of the faces of Israeli tankers who received such an order. laughing Try to persuade Anu Pupyrchaty to go to this raid as a shooter or journalist. And we will observe. wink
    2. il grand casino
      il grand casino 1 June 2013 12: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Rolm
      the Israeli attack of a couple of dozen Merkav 4 and heavy bmp will stop the Syrians nothing


      Hmm ... Do you really live the Israelites as complete idiots? Or do you think a couple of tanks can make their way around Syria and calmly go home? ... Because the C300 is optionally disposed of, it’s not even worth discussing ... but there’s a way ....
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 1 June 2013 12: 34 New
        -1
        Quote: il grand casino
        . THAT that if desired they will get rid of the C300, this is not even worth discussing ... but here the method is completely ....

        Yes, you can destroy everything, but it’s very important to do it quickly and simultaneously - but problems can arise with this. Evil tongues say that the S-300 can also work on ground targets, which means that with the slightest threat, missiles will fly to Israel. ..And most likely not only Syrian.
      2. Roll
        Roll 1 June 2013 17: 51 New
        -3
        bully The question is where the Syrians will place with -300 if 200 km from Damascus or the Golan Heights, why would the Jews not break through the Merkavas.
  • Drappier
    Drappier 1 June 2013 11: 32 New
    +1
    A good article makes you think hard. Thanks to the author.
  • sash411
    sash411 1 June 2013 11: 35 New
    -7
    Nobody will deliver anything to anyone. The current government will never give up its money abroad. And with the supply of S-300 and MIG-29, the amers and Israelis will definitely take this money. It's a pity, but their enemies always beat harder ...
  • Kars
    Kars 1 June 2013 11: 37 New
    +4
    I’m interested in this question: when can the REB aircraft work on them, can they launch an anti-radar missile? Can it visit?


    And also camouflage, camouflage, and again camouflage. I think a dozen S-300 planes will fail if they do not unmask themselves ahead of time. Therefore, you need layered air defense.
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 1 June 2013 12: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Kars
      I’m interested in this question: when can the REB aircraft work on them, can they launch an anti-radar missile? Can it visit?

      Not only possible but necessary! yes
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 12: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Arkan
        Quote: Kars
        I’m interested in this question: when can the REB aircraft work on them, can they launch an anti-radar missile? Can it visit?

        Not only possible but necessary! yes

        It is possible if they are within the reach of the rocket.
    2. Santa Fe
      1 June 2013 12: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Kars
      I’m interested in this question: when can the REB aircraft work on them, can they launch an anti-radar missile? Can it visit?

      Xs. The same Shrike was launched in the EMNIP sector +/- 30 degrees.
      By stationary target
      And while they stupidly smeared
      Quote: Kars
      And also disguise, disguise and disguise again.

      How do you mask radar radiation?
      To the Echo of Moscow radio station?
      1. Kars
        Kars 1 June 2013 12: 59 New
        +4
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Xs. The same Shrike was launched in the EMNIP sector +/- 30 degrees.
        By stationary target
        And while they stupidly smeared


        You recently wanted to shoot them at the ships?
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        How do you mask radar radiation?
        To the Echo of Moscow radio station?


        It’s also an option, but I think it will be easier to have separate radars for viewing and tracking somewhere on higher ground. And the S-300 radar itself should only be switched on when the enemy’s aircraft are in the zone of destruction of the battery.
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 1 June 2013 15: 00 New
          0
          Or use passive radar target detection.
        2. Santa Fe
          1 June 2013 16: 45 New
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          You recently wanted to shoot them at the ships?

          Sorry, but the drift is 20 times slower than the plane
          + HARMS in my case started literally point blank - you also have to throw PRR for a hundred kilometers.
          Quote: Kars
          but I think it will be easier to have separate radars for viewing and tracking somewhere on the hills. And the S-300 radar itself should be switched on only when the enemy’s aircraft are in the zone of battery destruction

          NATO works 10 minutes more
          first they’ll break the radar of the survey at higher elevations, then the radar of the S-300 itself. What questions are there?

          If you only hide surveillance radars deep in the territory ... but this is unlikely to help, there is a comment about false targets at the top:

          . The US Air Force and Raytheon began in 2012 the production and arming of ultra-light missiles - the false targets MALD-J (Miniature Air Launched Decoy Jammer).

          The missile weighs less than 300 pounds and has a flight range of about 500 nautical miles, designed to protect aircraft and their crews, simulating the flights and radar signature of US aircraft and their allies.

          MALD-J provides aircraft protection by saturating the detection channels and guiding enemy air defenses with false targets.

          During 2012, 13 launches of MALD and MALD-J were carried out, all of them demonstrated the reliability and effectiveness of missiles.

          On September 6, Raytheon Missile Systems delivered the first MALD-J missile to the U.S. Air Force, and the ceremony was held at the company's factory in Tucson.

          Copyright ~ Serge-vaf
          1. Kars
            Kars 1 June 2013 17: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Sorry, but the drift is 20 times slower than the plane

            But still more mobile than a stationary radar.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            + HARMAS in my case started literally point blank - you also have to throw PRR for a hundred kilometers

            Well, not exactly at point blank range, at least 30-40 km
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            the first will break the radar of the survey at higher elevations, then the radar of the S-300 itself. What questions are there?

            Well, anyway, at least for ten minutes, and what the hell is not joking, the breakers will enter the air defense zones, and knowing the target from the tomagovs will be easier to cover.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            During 2012, 13 launches of MALD and MALD-J were carried out, all of them demonstrated the reliability and effectiveness of missiles.

            False goals are of course very interesting, but I think there are tricks against them,
  • harrymur
    harrymur 1 June 2013 11: 38 New
    +1
    one of the features of the c300 is the ability to hit ground-based objects reflecting a radio wave, to give such technology to a region where jihadists, Islamists, and other evil spirits are NOT possible, our “brothers” in the Israeli Soviet Republic understand this very well, they will definitely play this card in negotiations with their classmates in Russia,
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 13: 04 New
      -2
      Quote: harrimur
      our "brothers" in the Israeli Soviet Republic understand this very well, they will definitely play this card in negotiations with their classmates in Russia,

      From what I know from history, there could well be an option if Stalin really organized mass repatriation of Soviet Jews in the 40 years. Then the pro-Soviet sentiment in Israel went wild.
      1. harrymur
        harrymur 1 June 2013 20: 17 New
        -2
        your suit on the flag does not give you the right to be illiterate, shame is a citizen of the Soviet Republic of Israel, study the history of your state, and better the history of the promised land, if there are a majority of such Jews, then the whole thing that the rulers of the USSR and the USA put into action But your brief story was written by WWII and WWII veterans, shame on you comrades)))
    2. Arkan
      Arkan 1 June 2013 13: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: harrimur
      give such technology to a region where jihadists, Islamists, and other evil spirits rule

      They give her there so that evil would not steer.
      Quote: harrimur
      they will definitely play this card in negotiations with their classmates in Russia,

      I think these negotiations will not give the desired result for the Jews. By refraining from delivering high-tech weapons to Syria and Iran, Russia probably made conditions for the West and Israel (it's hard to believe that Russia sacrificed its image without any conditions), apparently Israel violated these conditions (and in other words, he deceived) - BB wasn’t worth joking with Putin like that, not the same person.
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 1 June 2013 15: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: harrimur
      one of the features of the c300 is the ability to hit ground-based objects reflecting a radio wave

      Not all modifications. And most importantly, warheads need an appropriate .....
    4. Pimply
      Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 33 New
      -1
      No, it’s better to give it to the region where Shiite guys from Hezbollah and the IRGC rule;) A good joke 8)
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 2 June 2013 12: 14 New
        -1
        Quote: Pimply
        No, it’s better to give it to the region where Shiite guys from Hezbollah and the IRGC rule;) A good joke 8)

        Well, of course, from the point of view of Russia, it is much better, since the opponents of Russia are the Salafis supported by Israel and the West. Do you really, the analyst laughing is it not clear?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 2 June 2013 15: 21 New
          0
          Tell me, do you really don’t understand that there are other regional players besides the West and Israel?
          1. alicante11
            alicante11 2 June 2013 16: 22 New
            +3
            Yes, there are no other players there. And Israel is not a player either. So, the pawn is unfair. If the Turks were players, then for their phantom they would have to put Assad on the ears. But firstly, the owners did not allow, not time. And secondly, the provocation turned out to be oak.
            The same can be said about Israel. You might think that before Damascus did not transfer weapons to Hezbollah. But somehow, they didn’t bomb. And then suddenly on your snout. And for some reason, the Lebanese weapon turned out to be exactly where the support for the Islamist militants was tedious. And they also love Israel very much, though, under mustard with horseradish (I think they will really like Jewish women and the hearts of Jewish children for a snack). This is how you need to be a player to chop under yourself the same bough? Analytics with you straight rushing, flow.
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 1 June 2013 11: 42 New
    -1
    Again and again, the naive belief in another "wunderwaffe", which was also developed not a lot, not a little, but about half a century ago, or rather at the end of 60x, and the start of the series began in 1075 Yes at the time of development and even launch into the series it was a very effective complex capable of intercepting both aerodynamic targets and targets with ballistic casting, i.e. medium-range ballistic missiles. Yes, those air defense systems that are planned for delivery to Syria underwent a certain modernization. But after all, opponents have not slept all these years and have improved both their internal intelligence and all that can ruin the life of С300 and their heirs. And who in these efforts managed to advance further can only determine real combat clashes. In addition, it must be taken into account that in the USSR air defense was built as a multi-level one, consisting of RTV, IA and ZRCh, the composition and number of technical means of which can not be compared with what Syria has. Not to mention the training of the "exploiters" of these funds.
    For probable opponents of Syria, this picture looks more fresh and beautiful. Moreover, it’s unlikely that anyone will crawl stupidly on C300. Israel considers its pilots individually and, accordingly, is trying and will try to protect. And the United States also in this regard is trying to keep up with Israel. Not everything and not always they succeed, but this effort can be traced very clearly. It is difficult to say how this endeavor will be implemented in each case. It is quite possible to use some non-standard methods. The United States was able to buy the majority of Iraq’s generals on the vine, which made it possible to limit the scale of the war in Iraq mainly by clashes with the Hussein’s guards. And what could that guard oppose the US military machine with its Tomahawks and so on. I couldn’t do anything serious, although I was puffed up. And the loss of US troops began to suffer mainly after the end of hostilities.
    So it is here. Most commentators are considering the classic use of C300 (i.e., they offer to fight using methods of past wars), forgetting that in the arsenal of opponents of Syria, there are a lot of very effective means that have not been used before. For example, the same EMP, etc. And it is difficult to say how radar systems as well as control and communication means of the С300 air defense system will behave under the conditions of exposure to high-energy EMP or something like that.
    What am I doing? And the fact that you do not need to jump out of your pants ahead of time. Life will show who and what is worth. Do not, bring, of course, God. And there is no need to make Israel a bloodthirsty aggressor who seeks to crush the whole Middle East. It would be safe for him to protect himself from "peaceful" neighbors. Another thing is that the measures that he sometimes takes do not always look beautiful from the point of view of international law. But here already with whom you will lead, from that you will gain. After all, Russia also did not bother much with this right when it came to the war in Chechnya. Soaked Chechens in the toilet on black. And not only Chechens but also their neighbors if those neighbors are real to help their Chechen brothers.
    1. Kirgudum
      Kirgudum 1 June 2013 15: 06 New
      +1
      And there is no need to make Israel a bloodthirsty aggressor who seeks to crush the whole Middle East. He would protect himself from "peaceful" neighbors and it’s good
      - it’s bad that he does this, helping the chaos of his neighbors.
  • ilya63
    ilya63 1 June 2013 11: 44 New
    0
    Whatever it was, the United States is solving its problems in conflicts, but we aren’t dealing with the technology, combat skills or morale of the armed forces of any country, material costs, or something much simpler, "who used to get up and sneakers" is good the proverb and the USA using the media represent what they want and how they want (yesterday I watched how the British and Amers defeated the Germans in the Second World War – the old documentary was only painted in color and the voice acting was different and the shots were rigged as needed, and Stalin wanted to enslave the whole of Europe and the Russians provoked an uprising in Warsaw, and then waited while the brave SS guys rolled the army over the Warsaw bridge, and Churchill (the same devil) agreed with Stalin on the division of Europe, but he didn’t let the amers know, etc. ) and the scenario is the same one played out by Iraq, Libya, the Afghans, now Syria - they create a conditional excuse, inflate through the media, connect all their jackals and then the “hot phase” begins and until pi .. who is that barks at the UN or Russia and China, and then the scheme is also worked out - the dictatorship is under the protectorate of the United States (you do what you want, but we will tell you how to do it and God forbid you not to heed)
    Yes, ours were good too, they delivered S-300 6pcs, but that they wouldn’t send 60 or some thread, it seems that they just lit up for show in the eyes of the world community, but really no one will help Syria. Divide and conquer the politics, no one canceled, and the loss of Syria is still awful for us (the USA and England just want to pit us and China, so that later they can do everything as they did after World War II and are safe for the Tryndets)
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 12: 37 New
      0
      Quote: ilya63

      Yes, and ours are also good. Well, they delivered C-300 6pcs, and what not 60pcs or some thread would send a contingent

      as far as voiced not 6 pieces, but 6 batteries by 4 PU in the battery. Pretty well. Israel, for example, has only 5 Patriot batteries and no one screams about poor air defense.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 June 2013 13: 20 New
        -1
        The opposite is true. 4 batteries of 6 pieces. The usual version is 8, in this delivery - 6.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • bddrus
    bddrus 1 June 2013 11: 53 New
    +3
    the goal of s-300 delivery is no longer deterrence, but verification of its performance characteristics in real conditions - my opinion
    1. gregor6549
      gregor6549 1 June 2013 12: 55 New
      -5
      I have several other assumptions about the goals. Those. The goals are likely to be as follows:
      1. "Cut" and "saw" in private pockets nehilny grandmother for C300 and other equipment;
      2. Show other potential buyers of similar equipment that Russia is a reliable trading partner and you can and should deal with it
      3. To cover, in which case, the Navy base and ships in Tartus from "accidental" raids of "unidentified" aircraft and the evacuation of the numerous Russian military and civilian personnel currently working in Syria
      4. If possible, avoid checking the C300 in real combat conditions, so as not to interfere with the execution of the 1 and 2 points and not mess with the execution of the 3 point.

      After all, if the cover of YOUR people and ships falls apart for some reason, which is quite likely in the current Syria, then many in Moscow and not only in Moscow will lose their warm armchairs, and therefore the opportunity to continue to use the benefits of 1 and invest these benefits in banks and real estate of sworn enemies. Well, do not really fight with such enemies. Moreover, the children study there, and the wives in Hawaii and in Miami adapted themselves to rest. Yes, and Eilat is not the worst place to relax these wives with children. And the head of the family can jump there and through Egypt if in Moscow it gets colder. And after all they jump.

      Of course, I could be wrong in my assumptions .... but the probability of error is close to zero
      1. bddrus
        bddrus 1 June 2013 14: 34 New
        +3
        and my snot about "cuts" already annoy me, not even excluding similar things, in principle, in any country
      2. MG42
        MG42 1 June 2013 17: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: gregor6549
        3. To cover, in which case, the Navy base and ships in Tartus from "accidental" raids of "unidentified" aircraft and the evacuation of the numerous Russian military and civilian personnel currently working in Syria

        Honestly, I didn’t understand this point, the ships have their own air defense, for example, the same S300F air defense system, these systems are supplied to cover land objects .. should they be installed for evacuation, then evacuate them too?
        Quote: gregor6549
        After all, if the cover of YOUR people and ships for some reason breaks, which is quite likely in the current conditions of Syria

        Least of all, the aggressor will want to attack Russian targets, because this means only one declaration of war with all the consequences ..
        1. gregor6549
          gregor6549 1 June 2013 18: 55 New
          -1
          None of the ship’s air defense systems alone can’t really cover up without fighter aircraft. This truth was known throughout the Navy in Soviet times. This is the time. And two. Who said that unidentified aircraft (or missiles) will be able to identify who the aggressor is. After all, there are enough thugs in Syria now. And if they start to receive something similar to what Russia plans to supply Syria (air defense systems, aircraft, etc.)? Moreover, along with other scumbags trained in this "similar" to manage. Or is everything happening there according to some classical laws? After all, in the same Chechnya, at first there were attempts to fight with the hands of Soviet officers and ensigns who were put into tanks without identification marks, and then from those who died renouncing themselves. And in Vilnius it was like that. And in many other places both in Russia and abroad. So the method has been worked out for a long time and by all.

  • MG42
    MG42 1 June 2013 12: 04 New
    +8
    For example, formidable statements about the destruction of targets at a distance of 400 km for the S-400 Triumph air defense system concern only targets in the upper layers of the stratosphere. At the same time, any "maize" flying above the very tops of trees can safely sneak up to S-400 positions at a distance of a couple of tens of kilometers, while remaining invisible and absolutely invulnerable to the anti-aircraft missile system

    put a minus article.

    The S-400 is covered with c1 shells, creating a continuous target interception zone from 5 m in height and 200 m in range to 15 km in height and 20 km in range, even without external support.
    1. Atrix
      Atrix 1 June 2013 12: 21 New
      -1
      At the same time, the radar target tracking system (single-channel) used in the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile defense system, as shown by calculations and modeling (and state tests, the results of which are “reliably” hidden), does not provide the required accuracy of aiming the missiles at maximum range even with effective reflective surface 2 sq. m and more. Under moderate weather conditions, the optoelectronic channel provides reliable detection and tracking of targets at ranges of no more than 12 – 15 km and is also single-channel.

      In addition, the radar and optoelectronic channels of the Pantsir-C1 ZRPK are not parallel, but mutually complementary, and by no means increase the channel of the complex for the target

      According to the integrated assessment of the totality of combat characteristics and the “cost-effectiveness” criterion carried out using situational models, the Top-M2U SAM with the 9M331M SAM surpasses the Pantsir-S1 SAM by 1,2–1,3 times.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. MG42
        MG42 1 June 2013 12: 42 New
        +4
        One thing I can say for sure = no one would dare to test the reliability of the defense of the c400 complex + the c1 armor sowing into the same “corn dipper” so that they could sneak up on them unnoticed. wink
        1. Roll
          Roll 1 June 2013 17: 38 New
          -3
          wassat Why no one will dare, for example, the German thug pilot Rust tested the USSR air defense system on a maize is cramped and sat on the Red Square, but here the task is much easier.
          1. MG42
            MG42 1 June 2013 17: 51 New
            +4
            Quote: Rolm
            Why no one will dare, for example, the non-German scumbag pilot Rust tested the air defense system

            In 1987, it was, but we are talking about the shell c1 and c400 bully
            Quote: Rolm
            and here the task is much easier.

            he he tongue sign up for a kamikaze?
        2. MG42
          MG42 1 June 2013 17: 53 New
          10
          In fact, Rust’s plane, which didn’t respond to the query “Friend or Foe,” was immediately detected by our radar. Radar operator Private Dilmagombetov was the first to spot it, which he immediately reported to Captain Osipov, the officer on duty at the company’s control point. Then a note from the Cessna Rust was spotted by the operator of another station, Corporal Shargorodsky, and informed the operational duty officer that he was observing an unidentified target. However, at a higher CP, the issuance of information “upstairs” was delayed for about 15 minutes, taking a timeout to figure out who was flying - a border violator or a flight regime violator. They were decided by Lieutenant Colonel Karpets and Major Chernykh, who were later found guilty of the whole story - demoted and sentenced by a military tribunal for five years.

          But the information, although belatedly, was issued on command further. A fighter, piloted by senior lieutenant Puchnin, took off to intercept Rust. He flew around the Cessna twice and reported to the ground that in front of him was a "light-sporting aircraft with a blue stripe along the fuselage." If he had then received a command from the earth to destroy the offender, he would have easily done that. According to Rust, recorded in the interrogation protocol, he only once saw the Soviet interceptor and even discerned in the cockpit the orange overalls and oxygen masks of Soviet pilots who were sitting in a row.

          “I was waiting for the landing command,” Rust said. “But she did not follow.” So I kept course 117, moving at an altitude of 600.

          Rust was cunning. He was not going to sit down, because his task was to fly to Red Square at all costs. And the intruder circled more than once. To avoid further meetings with the fighters, Rust will then go to low altitude. Such a decision could be made only by a pilot who was well aware of the ways to counter our air defense system.

          Although Rust that day could easily bring down. Such a decision has already been made by General Kromin, the commander of the Leningrad separate air defense army. The instruction that came into being after the September events of 1983, when the South Korean Boeing was shot down in the Far East, as if by mistake violating the Soviet border, was in the way. The instruction forbade shooting down passenger and light-sport aircraft of a sport type, and the general painfully searched for a solution, thereby saving the life of a German guy. Here is an excerpt from the transcript of his talks at the Army CP:

          - Well, will we shoot down? The pilot reports: type Yak-12 (Soviet light-sport aircraft of a sports type, similar to the "Cessna").

          It was the similarity of the Rust aircraft with the Yak-12 that misled our pilot, and behind him - everyone else. The general decided that he was dealing with a flight mode violator who forgot to turn on the recognition mode on board or flew out with faulty equipment. The target was transferred for support to the units of the Moscow District, which regularly “led” it, until the mark from the “Cessna” disappeared from the indicator screens
  • Nitup
    Nitup 1 June 2013 12: 13 New
    0
    Whoever says anything, you and I can only guess what is delivered there or not delivered. That they say that either 6 units or 4 divisions are delivered, i.e. 32 launchers, under the old contract, are only statements, such as, for example, statements that the EU will supply weapons only to “good” terrorists. We are unlikely to find out what and how much really went there. It is possible that other air defense systems were delivered there in sufficient quantities to create layered air defense. In any case, if there is no foreign intervention, it means that there are enough forces and means to prevent it.
  • individual
    individual 1 June 2013 12: 15 New
    +1
    An article from the field of speculation.
    Reality always stands apart from theoretical justification.
    It’s not possible to take into account everything.
    It all depends on the skills, reaction and skill of the combat mission performer and well-coordinated radar-rocket ligaments.
    The main role is given to politicians when they have already spoken their word and not to interfere with their armed forces to put an end to the confrontation.
  • SERGEYTSIKALUIK
    SERGEYTSIKALUIK 1 June 2013 12: 17 New
    0
    A small addition: AGM-88 HARM - maximum launch range: 100 km.
    The aerodynamic target destruction range for the s-300PMU complex (1983 year of development) is 90 km.
    The aerodynamic target destruction range for the latest modification of the S-300PMU2 Favorit complex is 200 km.
    1. Santa Fe
      1 June 2013 12: 29 New
      0
      Quote: SERGEYTSIKALUIK
      The aerodynamic target destruction range for the latest modification of the S-300PMU2 Favorit complex is 200 km.

      The minimum target height above the earth’s surface in this case?
  • SERGEYTSIKALUIK
    SERGEYTSIKALUIK 1 June 2013 12: 32 New
    +2
    In my opinion, the most dangerous opponents for the S-300 systems in Syria are drones, and the use of conventional weapons from Israeli territory. From the territory of Israel and Turkey, S-300 missiles can be equipped with ground-to-ground missiles, rocket and barrel artillery. Also, for air defense, Siriiv generally poses a danger to the actions of reconnaissance and sabotage groups.
    The United States can simply overwhelm with the number of unmanned aerial vehicles - according to approximate estimates, the United States is armed with approximately 7-10 thousand drones of all types and classes. In addition: tomahawks will be hit at all possible S-300 positions.
    In my opinion: Siri urgently needs dozens of simulated inflatable S-300 models.
    The S-300 air defense inflatable model weighs 100 kilograms and allows you to reproduce the unmasking signs of the launcher in the transport or deployed position in the optical, thermal and radar wavelength ranges. The breadboard model is a life-size copy of all the machines of the complex - the launcher, radar, transport-loading machine, and others.

    By the way, we need inflatable models not only S-300 !!!
    1. Santa Fe
      1 June 2013 12: 36 New
      -2
      Quote: SERGEYTSIKALUIK
      Siri urgently needs dozens of simulated inflatable S-300 models.

      Mossad, unfortunately, is not inflatable
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 12: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

        Mossad, unfortunately, is not inflatable

        MOSSAD in Syria does not work. There is the patrimony of AMAN.
        1. Tambov we ...
          Tambov we ... 1 June 2013 14: 52 New
          +2
          Your "estates" for the time being. GRU will come and that's it. Holocaust does not shout.
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 1 June 2013 15: 12 New
          +3
          One hell for C-300 they are not a problem. Since air defense systems are mobile. So you have to track it in real time. And this is even impossible for Moyshad on foreign territory.
          I would like to remind you that Saddam’s readable PU SCADs were never able to detect and suppress before rocket launches.
  • Max otto
    Max otto 1 June 2013 12: 37 New
    +9
    But someone can explain to me, because I have problems with logic, the external data entered into obvious contradictions between themselves: if Israel says that the Syrian S-300s will be gouged at any time convenient for them, then why the hell are they all in crowds began to rush to Russia to talk heart to heart with the president, and what do devotees do at the same time? But the information howl raised what. If we exclude the contradiction, then only one conclusion suggests itself: Not everything is so rosy with their means of suppressing air defense, I would say trouble with them. Otherwise, they would simply grin and laugh.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 12: 59 New
      -2
      Israel least of all in the world needs a conflict with the Russian Federation. In recent years, Israelis have invested more than 10bn $ in Russia, trade turnover has reached 4bn $ per year, mutual tourist flow is 600-700 thousand / person per year. We in Israel are not at all eager to experience the irritated reaction of Russia. And in general, if, in anticipation of a possible conflict, diplomacy is not trying to prevent the supply of modern weapons to a potential adversary, does it need such diplomacy? In 2008, Israel, under pressure from the Russian Federation, stopped supplying arms to Georgia since April. Do you think that the actions of Russian diplomacy were an empty pastime?
      1. MG42
        MG42 1 June 2013 14: 05 New
        +9
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        In recent years, Israelis have invested more than $ 10 billion in Russia, the trade turnover has reached $ 4 billion a year, and the mutual tourist flow is 600-700 thousand / person per year. We in Israel are not at all eager to experience the irritated reaction of Russia.

        so what the hell is being asked are you breaking into Syria? The reaction of Russia could be predicted, besides Putin is not Medvedev, it won’t be like in Libya ..
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 14: 42 New
          0
          Quote: MG42

          so what the hell is being asked are you breaking into Syria? The reaction of Russia could be predicted, besides Putin is not Medvedev, it won’t be like in Libya ..

          And who is breaking? What did the Israeli Air Force strike at Syrian forces? Strikes were made at weapons depots destined for Hezbollah?
          1. MG42
            MG42 1 June 2013 14: 54 New
            +8
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            And who is breaking?

            A question for a question, however typical of you .. wink
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            What did the Israeli Air Force strike at Syrian forces?

            again question to question
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            Strikes were made at weapons depots destined for Hezbollah?

            thrice ... laughing Your air force has invaded someone else's airspace, this means only one thing Israel = aggressor!
            I wonder what kind of reaction you wanted to hear from Russia ... like, keep up the good work or tacit agreement, you won’t wait! wink
          2. mirag2
            mirag2 2 June 2013 02: 31 New
            0
            WHAT YOU PROVE? Link please.
            Pure speculation.
      2. Arkan
        Arkan 1 June 2013 14: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        We in Israel are not at all eager to experience the irritated reaction of Russia.

        Well, explain this to the leadership of Israel. Do you yourself have no impression that your prime minister decided at all costs to spoil Israel’s relations not only with Russia but also with the USA?
      3. Kirgudum
        Kirgudum 1 June 2013 15: 02 New
        +3
        We in Israel are not at all eager to experience the irritated reaction of Russia
        “So what do you mean for her allies?” Or do you have much more trade with the United States, right? It will not work one booty to sit on two members. But sucking a few mouths at once from several at once is without problems (don’t take it personally, I’m talking about Israel in general). And everything goes to this, Israel is now, as some say, at the top of power - so from the top there is only one way - DOWN.
        1. mirag2
          mirag2 2 June 2013 02: 37 New
          +1
          Turnover is more ???? Go to the JINSA organization website. See how much money the United States provides to Israel. I don’t remember exactly what numbers. Plus, there are thousands of generals who come to Israel.
          Plus an incredibly strong Jewish lobby in the states. I wonder how Barack has still not succumbed to him and entered the war with Iran instead of Israel.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 2 June 2013 03: 08 New
            -1
            Do you know that there are 571 generals in the US Army? Well, some more in the Marine Corps and the Air Force.
            1. mirag2
              mirag2 2 June 2013 05: 15 New
              +1
              Sorry, "2012 participants" -possibly incorrect Google translation-without a dictionary in English from the sheet I will not read in detail, unfortunately.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 2 June 2013 15: 23 New
                0
                As for help - pay attention when it went, how Israel has to pay for it, what piece of land was given - well, etc. Also look at the amount of aid to neighboring Arab countries, or the volume of sales for example, Saudi Arabia. This help is very, very conditional.
                1. Banzai
                  Banzai 6 June 2013 18: 17 New
                  0
                  Quote: Pimply
                  As for help - pay attention when it went, how Israel has to pay for it, what piece of land was given - well, etc. This help is very, very conditional.

                  Pimpled, really only a finished Jew can say so. What do you say? What piece of land did you have to give ??? The one that you illegally took away earlier? Yes, and you didn’t give it away, your tanks are among the Palestinians' huts, THIS IS OCCUPATION. I want to advise you and not all forum users, see the doc movie “Occupation 101” - you will learn a lot about “unfortunate Jews surrounded by hostile Arabs.” Israel will not exist and a couple of months if they lose the multi-billion dollar support of the United States. 5 million Jewish people get more help from the United States (only financial not counting the military) than the United States give a billion starving Africans. Well, yes, of course, the help is VERY conditional. You probably want the keys to Fort Knox and a dollar printing press, if that is, consider-conditional help.
      4. alicante11
        alicante11 1 June 2013 15: 15 New
        +1
        And what is the conflict? Complexes delivered. Grandmas are received. The complexes belong to Syria. What is the difference between their destruction from the blows already inflicted, which led only to the holivar on the forums? Again Jewish excuses.
        But the statement that the complexes can be destroyed at our BDK is just a conflict. In the place of GDP, I would also write on the BDK or Aeroflot airplanes that will take the S-300 to Syria "hello to Israeli pilots and eternal memory to them."
      5. ed65b
        ed65b 1 June 2013 15: 24 New
        +2
        He invested what Spiz .. l from our old women and pensioners and the whole nation in 90.
      6. Barabas
        Barabas 1 June 2013 18: 29 New
        +1
        in Russia, a bunch of their billionaire Jews and where do they invest? in Chelsea? into Faberge eggs, into yachts. yes you rather stealed a hundred other lards, and covered up the 10-th investment!
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 19: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: Drum
          in Russia, a bunch of their billionaire Jews and where do they invest? in Chelsea? into Faberge eggs, into yachts. yes you rather stealed a hundred other lards, and covered up the 10-th investment!

          And what does Russian citizens of Jewish nationality have to do with Israel? It is only among the notorious anti-Semites that every Jewish friend of Israel. Yeah. More often than not, to prove their innocence to Israel, it is these Jews who pour maximum dirt on Israel.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 1 June 2013 23: 37 New
          -2
          Abramovich, before a fig, invested in the same Chukotka, if we really think about him.

          Faberge's eggs were bought not by Vekselberg himself, but by the fund that he heads, so to speak. And he returned them to Russia. This is bad.
          One of the most famous museums in the world is the Guggenheim Museum, created by a private philanthropist. Tretyakov Gallery - too.

          Among the projects of the Connection of Times Foundation:
          the return of the bells of the Holy Danilov Monastery from the USA;
          the return in 2006 of the archive of the Russian philosopher Ivan Ilyin to Russia and its transfer to Moscow State University for storage;
          restoration of the Vrubel hall in the Tretyakov Gallery;
          restoration of a historical monument Fort Ross (California, USA).

          Which, however, does not completely cancel their Chelsea and other things.
          1. mirag2
            mirag2 2 June 2013 02: 41 New
            0
            Excuse me, did you see Anadyr when Abramovich was the governor? What are his investments? In the central city two-story building of the post office? Do not tell. Although, maybe he later paid some LV to small nations. It looks like gifts to the American Indians.
        3. mirag2
          mirag2 2 June 2013 02: 38 New
          0
          Do you believe in 10 billion investments? Investments only in advertising Israeli goods and services.
      7. mirag2
        mirag2 2 June 2013 02: 30 New
        0
        Here you, unfortunately, are right. Unfortunately I say because I think that the LV flow from Russia there is many times more than "from there" to us ... Logically, it is not profitable for Russia to maintain relations with a one-way pump, therefore it is more interested in maintaining relations at the same level Israel. Therefore, politicians come from here to here, and not vice versa.
    2. gregor6549
      gregor6549 1 June 2013 13: 10 New
      +4
      Everything is simple. Israel has enough problems without C300 and to add one more to them, the solution of which can lead to unpredictable consequences, it does not really want to. All the same, the probability of losing their aircraft in the presence of C300 in Syria is much higher than in its absence. And Israel is more than sensitive to the loss of every soldier.
      Secondly, Israel most of all fears that the C300 might not get to those to whom they were sold and how they decide to use the C300 and for what purposes God alone knows.
      T.O. although Israel is objectively interested in maintaining Assad’s regime, it, Israel, is trying to protect itself from the bacchanalia that may arise if thugs who call themselves Syria’s freedom fighters win,

      Here, by the way, some people expressed the opinion that Israel is interested in defeating the Assad army in order to open its way to Iran. I do not agree. For this, Assad’s army will not be enough to defeat. It will still be necessary to take control of at least those routes that could be used for raids on Iran. But without the occupation of Syria and the cleansing of "freedom fighters" such control is unrealistic. And who will occupy? Israel? It’s ridiculous. USA? Hardly. They would have to take their hands from Afghanistan without losing their faces. Other NATO countries? Those, too, are now not up to wars. And Syria is not Mali
      1. Max otto
        Max otto 1 June 2013 14: 14 New
        +3
        It is very strange that somehow Israel is interested in preserving the Assad regime, is lobbying with the Turks, bombing Syria. From the Internet series "Fak ze sistem" or cranks logic. I understand the concern for their safety is this - if Assad is wetting the terrorists under the banners of al-Qaeda, then you need to help him, because if you can somehow agree with Assad (even threatening with a weapon), then talking with those scumbags is generally useless, they do not care for the most powerful army in the region, their martyrs do not end there. And where do they come from in Syria? And from Turkey. Bomb terrorist bases in Turkey, gentlemen. Instead, Netanyahu lobbies with Erdogan. Do you know why? Because Netanyahu - speaking in Russian - stsiklo, he merges the whole of Israel under the interests of world oligarchs, he put on his citizens, that's how it turns out.
        As for the S-300, don’t push on Assad, then he doesn’t need them, 700x6 million do not lie on the road. They have where to spend them. Better help Comrade Assad with guarding the complexes so that scumbags could not capture them.
      2. Arkan
        Arkan 1 June 2013 14: 31 New
        -2
        Quote: gregor6549
        Here, by the way, some people expressed the opinion that Israel is interested in defeating Assad’s army in order to open its way to Iran

        Yes, this is really not serious. Israel was interested in the American bombing of targets in Iran - it didn’t grow together ... It seems now Israel has set itself another task - the destruction of Syria as a state with the subsequent division of the Syrian legacy.
        1. gregor6549
          gregor6549 1 June 2013 17: 14 New
          +5
          What is the legacy? What are you talking about? He is not allowed to master his sands either. Why does he also need Syrian sand. All he, Israel, wants is to finally get rid of him and let him live in peace.
          And then one of them sucks up kassams and katyushas into it, then he threatens to demolish another atomic bomb from the face of the Earth, then the third one, although it doesn’t threaten, regularly sends a certain Nasrallah made in Russia and not only “presents” for Israel. It is important to remember one thing. The Jews already had one Holocaust. They will not allow the second at all costs. And he will try to not only pay this price. I understood this very clearly when I was visiting with my former colleagues who are now living in Israel.
          And the whole blizzard about the "Zionism of Fascism", raised around the world, including the money of Israel’s "sworn friends", Israel seems to be shaking a little. Moreover, Israeli citizens are not only Jews. There who is not there. And the same Arabs, and Belarusians and Ukrainians, and Russians, and Ethiopians and even Chinese. Full international.
          And further. Suppose that Muslims miraculously managed to ditch Israel. They will stop there. I doubt very much how I doubt the USA will become their next target. Weak, they reach the United States. The handles are short. But they don’t need to reach Russia. Here she is at her side. And a tooth on her has long grown. And there is something to share. And their "very faithful Muslims" already, like fleas, are teeming with the southern underbelly of Russia and the center too.
          So, of course, it is a good thing to defend in the words of Comrade Assad from the "Zionists of the imperialists."
          Just as if in the near future it was not necessary to defend ourselves from the "Arab friends" and other faithful Muslims with Kalashnikov in their hands, and not in Syria, but at home.
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 1 June 2013 18: 53 New
            -5
            Jews have been carrying this blizzard since the founding of Israel (and even earlier) and at the same time they do not forget to carefully spit on the norms of international law, the rights of the Arabs expelled by them, and the sovereignty of neighbors ... Yes, and for their activities in the territory of the former USSR We have the honor to observe and draw conclusions ourselves, I hope you do not mind.
            1. gregor6549
              gregor6549 2 June 2013 07: 14 New
              +1
              What international law are we talking about? And who ensures their implementation? UN, or what? And why only Israel spits on these norms? They spit on and spit, everyone who feels strong enough for such spits. That the introduction of Army Owls into Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan was not a violation of these norms? Or the bombing of Yugoslavia? Or mochilovo in Chechnya? Or the numerous attempts of Arab countries to reduce Israel to zero?
              Moreover, all the banditry against Israel was presented and presented by well-paid media as a struggle for the ri