Military Review

"Americans in Russia"

37
It is generally accepted that the Vietnam War ended April 30 1975. When the North Vietnamese T-54 kicked out the gates of the presidential palace in Saigon, symbolizing the fall of South Vietnam and the defeat of the United States in this conflict.


Shortly before this, the South Vietnamese air force, thanks to American assistance, reached the 4 position in the world in terms of numbers. Yielding only: USA, USSR and China. However, this only prolonged the agony through the corrupt Saigon regime.


North Vietnamese tank enters the gates of the presidential palace in Saigon


The North Vietnamese military got a large fleet of captured aircraft. Subsequently, F-5 fighters, A-37 attack aircraft and UH-1 helicopters were used by the Vietnamese armed forces until the end of the 80's.



At the airbase Tansonnat focused trophies - the remains of the Air Force in South Vietnam, are in good technical condition: 23 attack aircraft A-37, 41 fighter F-5, 50 helicopters UH-1, five stormtroopers AD-6, five helicopters CH-47, and five aircraft U-6A. In addition, 15 airplanes remained under question: U-17, 41 L-19, 28 C-7, 36 C-119, 18 T-41, 21 C-47, seven C-130, seven DC- 3, five DC-4 and two DC-6.
During the conduct of hostilities, Soviet military experts repeatedly had the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the most diverse American equipment. So in the USSR were sent: F-111 bomber cockpit, engines from A-4, A-6, F-105 and F-4, radar from F-4, Spulrow missiles. But after the end of the war, there was an opportunity to get acquainted with samples of aircraft that are in flight condition.
In Da Nang, where samples of interest to the Soviet side were transferred, our specialists were given the task of monitoring the technical condition of captured aircraft in the USSR, then preparing it for transportation by sea and loading it onto a dry cargo ship. What types of aircraft and in what configuration will be transferred, decided by the military attache with the officers of the General Staff who arrived at the airbase. Initially, one of the F-5 fighters was to be selected.
Three Vietnamese cars demonstrated in the air: they raised a pair of MiG-21, and then
alternately took off, made a circle and landed F-5, piloted by former South Vietnamese pilots. Making sure that the aircraft are in flying condition, they began a detailed inspection.

"Americans in Russia"


The equipment was alternately driven into a well-equipped hangar, where it was thoroughly examined for several days. The first F-5 was rejected: the oil radiator leaked and the connected radio did not work. We chose the next one, which turned out to be in absolutely good condition. This aircraft was sealed to eliminate equipment replacement.
The F-5 made a very good impression, differing favorably from the MiG-21. The overall dimensions of the equipment were significantly better. For example, the generator in 2-3 is smaller than ours. Very tiny and convenient disposable accumulators were used. The manufacturability of the service is ideal: the plane was so easy to operate that our specialists practically did not use technical documentation. For refueling the hydraulic system, a special self-propelled diesel truck was used. Starting engines - air, using a truck equipped with PGD. The composition of the equipment of the cockpit is similar to the MiG-21, but the devices are smaller, many of them with tape indicators. The toggle stations of the gas station turned out to be rubberized, which was unusual then.



The color of the cockpit is soft turquoise in color (the cockpit of the MiG-23 was later painted in this but sharper color).
Together with the fighter they received a significant number of spare parts and an almost complete set of technical documentation. No flight manuals for the F-5 have passed through our hands. Documentation was made available, and a competent specialist could easily master the operation of this machine. In addition, the Vietnamese transferred a lot of ground equipment: a complete set required for servicing one aircraft, a complete set (including test equipment) for four aircraft and something from the set for 10 aircraft.

The tactical fighter F-5E Tiger II is designed to conduct air combat, attack land targets and reconnaissance. In the middle of 1950's. Northrop, on its own initiative, began designing a lightweight fighter. As a result, the T-38 "Talon" training aircraft appeared for the US Air Force, and then a variant of the experienced single-seat fighter N-156F, the first flight of which took place on July 30 1959.
The aircraft had a light glider, modern aerodynamic forms, equipped with two small turbojet engines. In the production of the aircraft went under the designation F-5A Freedom Fighter, but the first began to operate a double training version of the F-5B.
The upgraded version was equipped with two General Electric TRDs J85-GE-21, the power of which was 23% more than the version of F-5A.
The reconnaissance version of the RF-5A was obtained by installing four cameras in the forward fuselage. The F-5A and RF-5A aircraft were widely used during the Vietnam War.
In November, 1970. It was decided to start the production of a new version under the designation F-5E Tiger II. The first serial F-5E Tiger II took off 11 August 1972.
From the previous version, the F-5E was distinguished by improved maneuverability and higher take-off and landing characteristics (which made it possible to use the aircraft with short runways), increased fuel reserves and an integrated fire control system.
The double training version of the F-5F based on the F-5E had an elongated fuselage, but retained the unified fire control system, so it could be used as a combat one.



F-5E Tiger II is equipped with a target detection system with AN / APQ-159 radar, TACAN radionavigation system, gyro sight with forward predictor, Litton LN-33 INS (optional), instrumental landing system AN / APX-101, VHF radio receivers , central computer, radar exposure warning system Itek AN / ALR-46.
Produced commercially in 1973-1987. Built around 1160 aircraft F-5E and 237 aircraft RF-5E and F-5F.
The aircraft is armed with two M-39-A2 guns (20 caliber mm, 280 ammunition for projectiles) and on 7 suspension units can carry two Sidewinder SDs or seventy-six NUR (mm 70 caliber) or bombs weighing up to 454 kg; UR "Bulpap." Use of UR "Maverick" is possible.

On the initiative of the Chief of the Air Force Scientific Research Institute, General I.D. Gaydayenko, supported by the Deputy Air Force Commander-in-Chief for armament M.N. Mishuk, they conducted comparative tests and training battles with domestic MiG-21bis and MiG-23ML fighters. The test pilot of the Scientific Research Institute of the Air Force N.I. Stogov, V.N. Kondaurov, A.S. Beige


Hero of the Soviet Union NI Stogov before flying to the F-5E "Tiger II"


The technical staff who prepared the elegant American aircraft for flight, he remembered the simplicity and thoughtfulness of the design, ease of access to the serviced units. One of the participants in the study of the American aircraft, the leading engineer of the Scientific Research Institute of the Air Force A. Marchenko, recalling, noted the dignity of the fighter as a non-glare dashboard: high-quality illuminated instrument glasses in any light did not create problems with reading information. Engineers at the Institute of the Air Force have long puzzled over the appointment of a button at the bottom of a deep niche in the cabin. As it turned out, it was intended to unlock the application. weapons with chassis released.



The pilots appreciated the comfort of the cabin, a good overview of it, the rational placement of instruments and controls, easy take-off and excellent maneuverability at high subsonic speeds. F-5E flew in Vladimirovka about a year, until one of the chassis tires collapsed. After testing at the Air Force Institute, the aircraft was handed over to TsAGI for conducting static tests, and many of its components and assemblies were taken to the aircraft design bureaus, where interesting technical solutions from Northrop were used in the development of domestic machines. In addition to the Soviet specialists, Polish engineers met with the American fighter, in 1977, they received from Vietnam a plane with the serial number 73-00852, intended to assess the possibility of rearming Soviet guns HP-23. This offer is not implemented. Third F-5E serial number
73-00878, brought in two boxes from the Czechoslovak training aircraft L-39 "Albatross" to the Prague Museum aviation and astronautics in 1981, where he is to this day.


F-5 during tests in the USSR, the airfield "Vladimirovka"


One copy of the light attack aircraft A-37 and the necessary spare parts and technical documentation were also carefully selected. The plane is even simpler than the F-5. Particularly impressive was the location of the pilots nearby. The cabin is compact, but comfortable, the composition of the equipment resembles a helicopter. Working with this machine was just as pleasant as the previous one.


Trophy A-37, in the DRV Aviation Museum


In the spring of 1976, one of the A-37В aircraft captured in Vietnam was brought in for study in the USSR. Initially, it was demonstrated to all interested specialists in the hangar of the Air Force Scientific Research Institute at the Chkalovskaya airbase, and then transferred to Akhtubinsk, where Dragonflay flight tests were conducted (led by the leading engineer of the Air Force Scientific Research Institute, VM Chumbarov). In general, the American attack aircraft received a rather high appreciation of Soviet specialists. The convenience of maintaining the aircraft, a well-developed combat survivability system, devices protecting the engine from foreign objects were noted. In December 1976, flight tests А-37В were completed and the aircraft was transferred to the P.O. Sukhoi, where at that time there were works on the T8 attack aircraft (Su-25).

For the F-5 and A-37, the Vietnamese also donated two additional engines, which were packed in special sealed containers filled with inert gas. This method of storage excluded harmful climatic influences and did not require re-activation before installing the engine on the aircraft.

It was also given the "ganship" AS-119 - the average military transport aircraft with a powerful infantry weapon system installed in the cargo cabin for operations on ground targets.
Transportation by sea LA of such dimensions is fraught with certain difficulties.
For unclear reasons, they did not want to overtake him, although the car was in a flying state. Having received the corresponding task, our representatives got acquainted with the AC-119 in detail and reported that the plane itself was clearly outdated and was not of interest, only its special equipment deserves attention. Then came the command of the car in the Union not to transport, and dismantle and send a set of weapons.

From the helicopters available at the airbase, two were selected: CH-47 Chinook in the landing variant and UH-1 Iroquois in the transport combat.
Compared to our combat Mi-8, the American Iroquois looked clearly preferable. The machine is much smaller, but much better equipped for conducting combat operations: two six-barreled machine guns mounted in the openings of the cargo compartment, a grenade launcher and guided missiles on the beams. Cockpit bottom and side armored.


UH-1 "Iroquois" at the DRV Aviation Museum


The information obtained after acquaintance with modern at the time of American technology, were used to create countermeasures. And some nodes and technical solutions are directly copied and used to create new aircraft in the USSR.

Based on:
http://lib.ec/b/346593/read
http://avia.mirtesen.ru/blog/43470706731/F5-s-krasnyimi-zvezdami
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/f5e.html
http://wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/AirWar/22/07.htm
Author:
37 comments
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  1. Dima190579
    Dima190579 31 May 2013 08: 15
    +2
    Oh, Americans could then do a good technique.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 31 May 2013 13: 19
      11
      Why only then? They can now.
    2. Capt.stryker
      Capt.stryker 31 May 2013 19: 30
      +9
      Quote: Dima190579
      Eh РјРѕРіР »Ryo Americans then do a good technique.

      What do you mean "could"? They are still doing good technique!
      1. Civil
        Civil 31 May 2013 23: 13
        -6
        Yes, I hope we still receive samples of the equipment of our "partners"
        1. Alwizard
          Alwizard 29 June 2013 20: 26
          +5
          Access to modern models of Western military equipment among Russian specialists is currently completely lacking.
  2. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 31 May 2013 08: 19
    24
    I take off my hat to Soviet engineers for objectivity and excellent knowledge of my craft. Submission of material is exclusively available.
  3. omsbon
    omsbon 31 May 2013 09: 06
    10
    The article is informative. (+)
    Proper use of captured equipment. We look, we study, we take the necessary!
    1. baton140105
      baton140105 31 May 2013 12: 18
      +8
      And therefore, ENOUGH TO KEEP AND LAUGHING ABOUT THE CHINESE))). We also copied other people's developments and made ours even better !!!
    2. edge
      edge 31 May 2013 13: 04
      +7
      Quote: omsbon
      We look, we study, we take the necessary

      and in the same way they look, study and take the necessary from our developments ..... everything is interconnected, this is one of the ways of disseminating progress
      1. Jin
        Jin 31 May 2013 14: 01
        +3
        Colleagues, I am generally surprised that the article's material opened the eyes of someone to the fact that ours are using someone else's technology ... It was, is and will be. Throughout the history of the existence of special services, they hunted for the secrets of the enemy, but there is nothing to say about the use of trophies !!! So it was in the Second World War. Think of the first captured Tigers, for example. And the story when our newest fighter (I don't remember which MIG or SU) took the defector pilot away and got on it in Japan? It was taken from there to the USA, where they examined it to a screw ... The Amers wondered why, in my opinion, the radar station, the aircraft used lamps, they thought they might work more stably at high speeds, etc. It could not even have occurred to them that at that time we were stupidly lagging behind in this industry ... But about the cognitiveness of the article, yes, a definite plus, interesting.
        1. old man54
          old man54 31 May 2013 22: 50
          +5
          Quote: Jin
          And the story when our newest fighter (I don’t remember which MIG or SU) took the defector pilot and sat on it in Japan? He was taken out of there to the United States, where he was examined to the cog ... Amer still wondered why, in my radar, the aircraft used lamps, they thought maybe they worked more stably at high speeds, etc. It couldn’t even occur to them that at that time we had a stupid lag in this industry ...

          About the "escape" to Japan - this is the traitor Belenko, his "frying pan" in Hell, on the MiG-25 in 1974, get reddened to red. But you are mistaken, the plane, unlike the traitor pilot, was never taken out of Japan. Our military-diplomatic mission in Japan clearly controlled this then. We studied it right there, in the corner of the airfield of the Japanese civil airfield of the Hokaido island during 2/3 days, then, almost around the clock, they were in a hurry. :(. And there are no lamps in the MiG-25 avionics, why don't you know, but write! years, the car is new, there were already semiconductors, theristors and transistors, why are you not knowing this writing ?! And mattress ones were no longer surprised by his electronics, but by the fact that the glider was made of ordinary steel, which no one used in the IA of the world then. It really shocked them then!
          1. Argon
            Argon 1 June 2013 00: 39
            0
            It was precisely the lamps there that were, as the lamps were less sensitive to high temperatures. Almost all A-10 was made of stainless steel, and the first in 38g was made in the USSR "Steel-9" by designer Bartini.
  4. avt
    avt 31 May 2013 09: 07
    +9
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    I take off my hat to Soviet engineers for objectivity and excellent knowledge of my craft. Submission of material is exclusively available.

    Yes, I join, it’s not quite abstruse within the format. Plus.
  5. Rustam
    Rustam 31 May 2013 10: 44
    11
    great story

    Yes, in those days, the Soviet Union’s stay in technology from the West was no more than 5 years, thanks to the work of the KGB and the GRU, who obtained production technologies and technical documentation for us, brought samples of products of interest in all directions, including the peace sector


    the video is right in the subject, that's why this problem is still relevant now-buying, disassembling and comparing so as not to lag behind is what we need to do, and not scream that we don’t need anyone and we with our mustaches, that’s what happened with our car industry, where he Now and at what level of development? Kalina for 430 thousand sarcasm of course wink
    1. old man54
      old man54 31 May 2013 22: 58
      +5
      somehow sadly: ((("the American won all training fights!"
  6. apro
    apro 31 May 2013 10: 46
    +8
    The article does not talk about the reaction of the leadership of the Soviet Air Force to the objective report, but the reaction was negative, the American equipment for developing countries wasn’t better than the Soviet one in some respects. It was the technological and operational ones that were harmful to our aviation and some of the incentives introduced but, on the whole, the lag of the Soviet Compared to the technique of amers, aircraft manufacturing in culture of production and maintenance of airplanes was on the face. Once again I will say we came close and in some places and aprons of amers only at the turn of the 70-80s, that is, just before the collapse.
    1. Jin
      Jin 31 May 2013 14: 08
      +4
      Quote: apro
      we came very close and in some places the aphrodisians of amers only at the turn of the 70-80s, that is, just before the collapse.


      Yes, it is, amers have a lot of advanced developments for their time, take the same U-2 or SR-71 Blackbird, fantastic cars in their time.
  7. Owl
    Owl 31 May 2013 11: 22
    12
    An adequate, honest story, there is no "hurray for patriotism", there is a statement of facts, history is not rewritten, people learn from history.
  8. Dr. Pilyulkin
    Dr. Pilyulkin 31 May 2013 11: 34
    +3
    It is written that there were comparative tests and training battles with domestic MiG-21bis and MiG-23ML fighters. Well and ... Is that all?
    And about the results of the battles where to read? What did the pilots say after? Google?
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 31 May 2013 11: 43
      +4
      And about the results of the battles where to read?

      ___________

      Watch the video above to start, especially from 1m 05sk!
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 31 May 2013 13: 44
        0
        Immediately on BO.month 2-2,5 back was an article on comparative tests. Or is it difficult to throw a request into a search engine?
        1. Dr. Pilyulkin
          Dr. Pilyulkin 31 May 2013 17: 19
          +3
          Quote: Fitter65
          Or is it difficult to throw a request into a search engine?

          And you, dear, how hard it is not to be rude to strangers?
          I believe that if the author touched on this question, it is necessary to give an answer. And if there is no answer, then write about it. That there were no unnecessary questions. The article is good, but there is a flaw. I think the author would agree with me.
      2. aviator_IAS
        aviator_IAS 1 June 2013 00: 53
        +3
        Quote: Rustam
        And about the results of the battles where to read?


        It is interestingly written in the book of the famous tester Vladimir Nikolaevich Kondaurov "A lifelong runway". He also tested this device, the first in the Union.

        After determining the main flight characteristics, we proceeded to comparative air battles with the MiG-21BIS. I fought in my "native" MiG-21, and Nikolai Stogov - in the F-5. A close maneuvering "battle" began in equal conditions on a collision course. All flights ended with one result - the MiG-21 was losing, although it had a significantly higher thrust-to-weight ratio. I, as they say, "went out of my way" in order to at least keep the initial conditions in the process of maneuvering. He took from the plane everything he was capable of, but the angle of the target was steadily increasing and the "enemy" in a couple of minutes was in my tail. Only tactics could save. What struck me most then was that the result of the "battles" caught by surprise not only the aviation chiefs (this can somehow be forgiven), but also the military scientific forces of the Air Force and even aviation design engineers. Post-flight information materials were looked through dozens of times, they asked us, especially me. To be honest, I myself was in some confusion, although, having flown the F-5, I realized that it was a "chicken and an egg".
        What was happening in the air? At speeds of about 800 km / h or more, the fight was on an equal footing, no one had obvious advantages, but a maneuverable visual battle was not possible due to the large radii of the figures. We both "sat" on the same, maximum for aircraft, overloads. But at speeds less than 750 km / h, these overloads were no longer maintained even in the afterburner mode of the engine. And the lower the speed, the greater the rate of its fall, and hence the lower the maximum overload. It turned out that wing aerodynamics won, not thrust-to-weight ratio. But how do you explain all this up there? They won't pat you on the head. Then the representatives of Mikoyan's company suggested:
        - Let's put the MiG-23M against him ...


        Link to the book: http://www.modernlib.ru/books/kondaurov_v/vzletnaya_polosa_dlinoyu_v_zhizn/read_
        1/

        About training fights with the MiG-21 and MiG-23 on pages 7 and 8. (chapter XVI), but I advise you to read everything. Very interesting.
    2. apro
      apro 31 May 2013 11: 50
      +5
      I’ve got a 95-year aircraft master there. On the whole, they showed excellent maneuverability for the tiger and in melee combat he beat the MIG-23.
    3. Avenger711
      Avenger711 31 May 2013 13: 31
      +3
      F-5E is better than MiG-21 without options. Yes and newer he is.
    4. Argon
      Argon 31 May 2013 14: 45
      +6
      Out of 15 fights "Bisenok" only once came to the tail of "Tiger", realizing its high-altitude-dynamic advantage, "Tiger" came off with a tub with an angle of attack up to 28 degrees and a loss of speed from 480k / h. All the rest were won by the "Tiger". I learned about these "battles" in the year 78-79 while still at school, the teacher on tactics of the BP told me. About the "war" with 23im I do not know anything, I can only say that the modifications of the ML were still was not, and all the previous BVB could conduct oh-oh-very limited. The reason for the superiority of the F-5 was, oddly enough, the "training" past of the machine, it had two configurations: for maneuverable flight with a speed limit of 600 km / h; and for high-speed in the second configuration, where the car was seriously inferior to the Bisenka (with 50% fuel remaining) due to the lower thrust-to-weight ratio. For that, in the first it was out of competition with any of ours, including the MiG-17.
    5. Capt.stryker
      Capt.stryker 31 May 2013 19: 38
      +4
      Quote: Dr. Pillkin
      It is written that there were comparative tests and training battles with domestic MiG-21bis and MiG-23ML fighters. Well and ... Is that all?
      And about the results of the battles where to read? What did the pilots say after? Google?


      As for the results of the battles, the author was ashamed to say, because these results run counter to the ideological principle "everything Soviet is the best in the world!" Not a single air battle with the F-5E, nor the MiG-21bis, MiG-23ML was won !!! For which the testers received 3,14-Z-dyule from Kutakhov.
  9. Mairos
    Mairos 31 May 2013 11: 35
    +9
    Once again convinced. With excellent combat characteristics, our equipment, unfortunately, constantly loses in operational and ergonomic indicators. And this also affects the success of combat use. And the Amer’s concern for people is always on top, whether it is infantry equipment or a fighter’s cabin.
  10. Abakanets
    Abakanets 31 May 2013 12: 37
    +1
    It's funny, but almost all helicopters in the USA were built by Sikorsky, a very talented designer, and if not for the revolution, who knows what world we would live in.
    1. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 31 May 2013 19: 30
      0
      The revolution drove a lot of talented people out of Russia. The same Sikorsky took part in the development of the Ilya Muromets bombers.
      On the whole, the revolution and the fall of the Russian Empire is a terrible catastrophe for the peoples that formed Russian civilization, comparable in its severity with the collapse of the USSR only.
    2. Capt.stryker
      Capt.stryker 31 May 2013 19: 43
      +6
      Quote: Abakanets
      almost all helicopters in the US are built by Sikorsky

      "Almost all" is how much? Do you know that in addition to Sikorskovo helicopters in the USA were built by a dozen more companies?
  11. kirgudu
    kirgudu 31 May 2013 12: 53
    +4
    And there is nothing wrong with taking and stupidly copying. It is cheaper and faster.
    1. Dr. Pilyulkin
      Dr. Pilyulkin 31 May 2013 13: 13
      +2
      And it’s not at all necessary that it will turn out the same or better. The Chinese have been puffing over how many years, but many Russian aircraft engines cannot copy humanly, for example. Technology is harder to copy than, say, a shovel.
    2. Alwizard
      Alwizard 29 June 2013 20: 28
      0
      It is significant that there is no possibility that such a comment would appear under the news of the supply of the Su-35 to China or some other modern technology.

      Duplicity of thinking - we can copy, the rest of the thieves)
  12. Pimply
    Pimply 31 May 2013 13: 21
    +6
    Well? Great, balanced article.
  13. Fitter65
    Fitter65 31 May 2013 13: 42
    +4
    Not stupidly copied, but with reference to the capabilities of their industry. For example, how many presented at the beginning of Al-2, whose prototype was the heart of the Phantom?
    The article is good because it is written professionally, without Quack-quatriotism and other crap.
  14. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 31 May 2013 14: 01
    +1
    In the US Air Force, F-5s have long been used in the aggressor squadron, imitating Soviet fighters. Over time, they were replaced by the F-16.
    1. Bongo
      1 June 2013 02: 30
      +4
      It is still used, for this 12 F-5E of the 1976 release was bought out in Switzerland and thoroughly repaired.
  15. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 31 May 2013 14: 26
    +1
    Quote: Jin
    Colleagues, I am generally surprised that the article's material opened the eyes of someone to the fact that ours are using someone else's technology ... It was, is and will be. Throughout the history of the existence of special services, they hunted for the secrets of the enemy, but there is nothing to say about the use of trophies !!! So it was in the Second World War. Think of the first captured Tigers, for example. And the story when our newest fighter (I don't remember which MIG or SU) took the defector pilot away and got on it in Japan? It was taken from there to the USA, where they examined it to a screw ... The Amers wondered why, in my opinion, the radar station, the aircraft used lamps, they thought they might work more stably at high speeds, etc. It could not even have occurred to them that at that time we were stupidly lagging behind in this industry ... But about the cognitiveness of the article, yes, a definite plus, interesting.

    Art. Lieutenant Belenko hijacked a MiG-25 fighter-interceptor to Japan. Because of this, it was necessary to change the entire system of identification "friend or foe".
    1. VAF
      VAF 31 May 2013 16: 00
      +7
      Quote: Kovrovsky
      Because of this, it was necessary to change the entire system of identification "friend or foe".


      We added another decoder and that's it! Changed nothing, because. it is useless, even if the protagonist has an integral "Password", as in Luai with Belenko, then when pulling out the "decoder insert" without a special code, which only the SRZO service group knows ..... all "inserts" fall apart (in literally, and each insert has a million needles in a honeycomb ... no further explanation? bully

      AUTHOR huge PLUS and RESPECT !!! drinks
  16. Capt.stryker
    Capt.stryker 31 May 2013 19: 50
    +3
    The article is not complete! The author intentionally tore out a piece from the article with the results of air battles, although he mentioned them ...
    On the initiative of the Chief of the Air Force Scientific Research Institute, General I.D. Gaydayenko, supported by the Deputy Air Force Commander-in-Chief for armament M.N. Mishuk, they conducted comparative tests and training battles with domestic MiG-21bis and MiG-23ML fighters. The test pilot of the Scientific Research Institute of the Air Force N.I. Stogov, V.N. Kondaurov, A.S. Beige

    ...what next? What? I don’t want to lie, but I’m ashamed to tell the truth !? For this, the author is minus!
  17. uzer 13
    uzer 13 31 May 2013 21: 38
    +3
    The MiG-23 may lose the training maneuver battle against the F-5. But in reality, everything happens differently - it abruptly goes up and breaks away from the enemy, after which the F-5 will have to take its legs away and as quickly as possible. Vietnam, were not test pilots. Therefore, they had recommendations when the MiG-21 appeared to increase speed and go to altitudes above 4000m. Where they had an advantage. At lower altitudes and speeds, the MiG-21 had a higher probability of winning an air battle against F-4 and F-5, and against the MiG-17 they had no chance at all.
  18. Valentinv
    Valentinv 31 May 2013 22: 03
    -2
    On F 5, they even managed to shoot 25 moment in the Iran-Iraq war
  19. Astrey
    Astrey 31 May 2013 23: 26
    +2
    Let us recall the "impossible" Somali-Ethiopian war of 1978. 2 F-5 aircraft shot down 4 MiGG-21s with ONE missile. The air battles stopped there ...

    The human factor of the human (methodically) pilot training should also not be forgotten.
  20. GEO
    GEO 1 June 2013 00: 12
    0
    Quote: Abakanets
    It's funny, but almost all helicopters in the USA were built by Sikorsky, a very talented designer, and if not for the revolution, who knows what world we would live in.

    There you have the role of the Jews in Russian history ... The revolutionaries, hell ... you. Thanks to Stalin, at least I sent them a little to where they sent the Russian people (sorry for the off-top)
  21. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 1 June 2013 00: 37
    -1
    Quote: GEO

    There you have the role of the Jews in Russian history ... The revolutionaries, hell ... you. Thanks to Stalin, at least I sent them a little to where they sent the Russian people (sorry for the off-top)

    Darn. Well, you are not ashamed. Do you not understand that such statements humiliate the Russians? In October 1917 of the 250 thousand Bolsheviks, Jews accounted for 10%. And this bunch of Gentiles managed with one evil desire to destroy a huge empire with a huge history, an army of special services, science and culture? Or maybe there were serious economic, social and cultural contradictions in the structure of the Republic of Ingushetia, which made it possible not only the October Revolution, but also victory of the Bolsheviks in the Civil War?
    1. slaventi
      slaventi 2 June 2013 15: 28
      0
      FIRST COUNCIL OF PEOPLE'S COMMISSARS
      1. The chairman of the council of people's commissars is Ulyanov (Lenin). It is listed as Russian. In fact, Lenin was a semi-Jew by his mother (Blank), and this, according to rabbinical laws, is a complete Jew.
      2. Commissioner of Foreign Affairs - Chicherin. It is listed as Russian. Chicherin was paternal from the old tribal nobility, and his mother was a Jew. He was married to a Jewess.
      3. Nationality Commissioner - Dzhugashvili (Stalin). It is considered a Georgian.
      4. President of the Supreme Economic Council - Lurie (Larin). Jew.
      5. Recovery Commissioner - Schlichter. Jew.
      6. Agriculture Commissioner - Protian. Armenian.
      7. Commissioner of State Control - Lander. Jew.
      8. The Commissioner of the Army and Navy - Bronstein (Trotsky). Jew.
      9. State Land Commissioner - Kaufman. Jew.
      10. Commissioner of Public Works - Schmitt. Jew.
      11. The commissar of public supplies - E. Lilina (Knigisen). Jewish woman.
      12. Commissioner of Public Education - Lunacharsky. It is listed as Russian. In fact - a Jew from the crosses. He was married to a Jewish woman, Rosenel.
      13. Commissar of religions - Svalbard. Jew.
      14. People's Commissar - Apfelbaum (Zinoviev). Jew.
      15. Commissioner of Public Hygiene - Anwelt. Jew.
      16. Commissioner of Finance - Gukovsky. Jew.
      17. Print Commissioner - Kogen (Volodarsky). Jew.
      18. The Commissioner for Election Affairs - Radomyslsky (Uritsky). Jew.
      19. Commissioner of Justice - Steinberg. Jew.
      20. Commissioner for the evacuation - Fenigstein. Jew.
      21. His assistants are Rawicz and Zaslavsky. The Jews.
      Total - of the 22 of the two top leaders of the country, 17 people were Jews, 3 were Russian (Lenin, Chicherin, Lunacharsky), 1 - Georgian (Stalin) and 1 Armenian (Protian).

      The MILITARY COMMISSARIAT consisted of 35 Jews, 7 Latvians and 1 Germans, there were no Russians.
      THE COMMISSIONAR OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS consisted of 43 Jews, 10 Latvians, 3 Armenians, 2 Poles, 2 Germans and 2 Russians.
      The COMMISSIONAR OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS consisted of 13 Jews, 1 Latvian, 1 German and 1 Russian.
      A COMMISSARIAT OF FINANCE consisted of 24 Jews, 2 Latvians, 1 Poles and 2 Russians.
      JUSTICE COMMISSARIAT consisted of 18 Jews and 1 Armenian, there were no Russians.
      PROVINCIAL COMMISSARS - 21 Jew, 1 Latvian and 1 Russian.
      THE BUREAU OF THE FIRST COUNCIL OF WORKERS AND SOLDIER DEPUTIES IN MOSCOW consisted of 19 Jews, 3 Latvians, 1 Armenians, and Russians.
      THE CENTRAL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE 4 RUSSIAN CONGRESS OF WORKERS AND PEASANTS DEPUTIES consisted of 33 Jews and 1 Russian - (Lenin).

      Of the 42 employees (editors and journalists) of the newspapers available at that time (Pravda, Izvestia, Banner of Labor, etc.), only one Maxim Gorky was not a Jew.
  22. Muxauk
    Muxauk 2 June 2013 23: 19
    +1
    Nothing, the battles won, one case can not say anything. Everyone has mistakes, but then they learned a lot.