The glorification of Prince Ireniak as an example of the falsification of history

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The glorification of Prince Ireniak as an example of the falsification of history


Historical Memory often differs from actual historical events. These discrepancies arise not only naturally, but also as a result of deliberate efforts by both government agencies and the intelligentsia. The creation of a historical memory that contradicts historical facts can be considered a falsification of history. Nowadays, the distortion of history occurs not only with global events but also with individuals, sometimes on a local or regional scale. A striking example of such a falsification of history is the attempt to glorify Irenyak, one of the rulers of the Yenisei Kyrgyz, which is currently taking place in some regions of Central Siberia.




The territory of the Kyrgyz Kaganate in the 9th century. Author of the map: A. A. Astaikin

The Yenisei Kyrgyz are a nomadic Turkic-speaking people who inhabited the upper reaches of the Yenisei River and the Sayan-Altai mountain region. The first mentions of this ethnic group date back to the 2nd century BC, but they actively emerged on the historical stage in the 7th century AD, establishing their own state, the Kyrgyz Khaganate. After the Mongol conquest of Genghis Khan and three unsuccessful uprisings, the unified Kyrgyz state disappeared, and in its place, four small uluses (regions) formed the Khongorai confederation. In the first half of the 17th century, Khongorai fell into vassalage to the Mongol Altyn Khans. In 1667, the Dzungars defeated the army of the Altyn Khans. From then on, Khongorai became a vassal of the Dzungar Khanate. The Yenisei Kyrgyz paid tribute to the Dzungars and were obligated to provide military assistance. At the same time, the Kyrgyz themselves collected tribute from the indigenous peoples of the upper and middle reaches of the Yenisei. This is why relations between the Kyrgyz and Russians were hostile from the very beginning. For the Kyrgyz, the Russian servicemen were competitors, collecting the tax—yasak—from the former Kyrgyz tributaries. This confrontation lasted for almost a century, but it reached its peak under the Kyrgyz prince Irenyak.


Dzungar Khanate in the 18th century

Irenyak or Irenek (in 17th-century Russian documents, Erenyachka Isheyev) was the ruler of the Altysar Ulus, one of the four principalities of the Yenisei Kyrgyz. Russians called him a prince or a princeling, but scholarly literature uses the Turkic term "bek." Irenyak was the third son of the bek of the Altysar Ulus and ruler of Khongorai, Ishenya Nomchiev, and the grandson of Prince Nomchi.
In 1658, Irenyak became the head of the Altasar district, and later the entire Kyrgyz confederation. He clearly possessed both outstanding political qualities and military prowess. In the summer of 1666, Irenyak and a detachment of 300 horsemen captured and burned the Udinsky fort (present-day Nizhneudinsk in the Irkutsk region), killing or capturing its inhabitants. On their return journey, the Kyrgyz were intercepted by Krasnoyarsk servicemen led by Yelisey Tyumentsev. The Cossacks, on foot, traveled by boat and routed the enemy on the Ishty-Yula River. The Kyrgyz, abandoning their loot and captives, retreated into the steppe.


Model of the Udinsky prison

In 1667, the Kyrgyz surrendered to the Dzungar Khanate from the Altyn Khans. In May of that year, they, along with the Dzungars, besieged the Krasnoyarsk fortress. The fortress held, but 199 people died in the defense: servicemen from the Krasnoyarsk garrison, volunteers, Cossacks from the Yenisei fortress, and Turkic foreigners allied with the Russians (suburban Tatars). In the autumn of that year, Irenyak again raided Krasnoyarsk, but again failed to take the fortress. Negotiations were held with him in 1668–1669, but peace with the Kyrgyz was unsuccessful.


Krasnoyarsk prison

In 1670, Ireniak planned to attack the Russians again to regain control of his former kyshtyms (tributaries) who had become Russian subjects. Since their forces were insufficient, the Kyrgyz turned to the Dzungars for help, but they were unable to provide assistance at that time. The following year, Ireniak, on behalf of the Dzungar ruler, Khuntaiji Galdan, demanded tribute from the Krasnoyarsk voivode (voivode), for the Kachins and Arins, who were Russian subjects.

Realizing that they did not have the strength to deal with the enemy on their own, the Krasnoyarsk people bowed to the sovereign and asked him to “subdue the Kirghiz and Tubans through war and build a fort on their land.”


Construction of the prison

In 1672, the governor A. I. Sumarokov proposed that the Kyrgyz become subjects of Russia, but Ireniak rejected the proposal to pay tribute to the Russians and, on the contrary, continued to demand tribute from the foreigners vassal to the Russians, threatening war in case of refusal.

In 1673, the combined Dzungar-Kyrgyz forces, splitting into two detachments, again launched a campaign against the Russians. One detachment marched against the Kuznetsk fort, while the second marched first to the Tomsk district and then to the Yenisei district, where it captured and burned the Achinsk fort. In the following years, Irenyak besieged the Abakan and Karaulny forts. In 1678, he negotiated with the Russians. According to the agreements reached, both sides renounced military campaigns and mutually agreed to surrender fugitives. However, the Kyrgyz refused to pay yasak and refused permission to build a fort in the Tubin land. Academician Bakhrushin called the 1678 agreement "a major diplomatic victory for the Kyrgyz princeling."


Sergei Vladimirovich Bakhrushin Russian and Soviet historian, corresponding member of the USSR Academy of Sciences

Moscow understood that the Kyrgyz could easily violate the terms of the treaty. Therefore, forts remained the best defense against raids. In 1679, the Russians began preparing for a major campaign to build a fortress in the Tubin lands. Detachments from several Siberian forts were to participate in this undertaking. However, Irenyak launched a preemptive strike and laid siege to Krasnoyarsk. Having failed to take the Krasnoyarsk fort, the enemy lifted the siege and departed with loot and captives. The Kyrgyz burned two villages near the city, killing the service people and farming peasants who lived there, and took the women and children captive. In addition to the Russians, the indigenous population, who paid yasak to the Russians, also suffered. The Kyrgyz took 171 "foreigners" captive.

In the autumn of that same year, 1679, Ireniak again waged war on Krasnoyarsk. The Kyrgyz burned 16 villages, 143 households in total, in the vicinity of the city. The fortress garrison chose as its commander the exiled Chernigov colonel Vasily Mnohohrishny (brother of the hetman of Left-Bank Ukraine, Demyan Mnohohrishny), who was imprisoned in Krasnoyarsk prison. Under the command of this experienced warrior, the service men drove the enemy back from the fortress walls. In that battle, Ireniak himself, unhorsed, nearly perished.


Demyan Ignatyevich Mnohohrishny, Hetman of the Zaporizhian Host in Left-Bank Ukraine, brother of Vasily Mnohohrishny[/ Center]
Following a retaliatory Cossack campaign in 1680, another peace was concluded between the Russians and the Kyrgyz. The Iyus River became the dividing line between the recent adversaries. However, Ireniak was in no hurry to fulfill the terms of the treaty: he did not return the captured cannons, delayed the payment of yasak, and gave away a distant relative, rather than his son, as an amanat (hostage).

In 1682, detachments of service men from Tobolsk, Tara, Tomsk, and Kuznetsk, totaling 1075 men under the command of Tobolsk voivode Ivan Suvorov, again moved south. Ireniak's forces, four times superior in numbers, defeated the Russian detachment and even captured the flag.


Russian service people. 17th century.

In 1684, an embassy from Ireniak arrived in Moscow and was received by the Siberian Prikaz. The ambassadors accused the Siberian voivodes of instigating the hostilities. Following negotiations, the Kyrgyz agreed to pay yasak to the Russians, but the Russians continued to collect taxes from non-Russians who had accepted Russian citizenship. Formally, having sworn an oath (sherti) to the Russians, the Yenisei Kyrgyz remained subordinate to the Dzungar Khanate. At the Dzungars' request, Ireniak arrived in 1687 with a detachment of 600 warriors for a joint campaign against the Mongols. In the Altai Mountains, not far from Lake Teletskoye, the Mongols routed the combined forces of the Dzungars and the Yenisei Kyrgyz. Ireniak died in battle along with a significant portion of his army.

Thus, historical evidence indicates that the Yenisei Kyrgyz were an implacable enemy of the Russian state. Although they occasionally made peace with Russia and even swore allegiance to the Russian Tsar, they continually violated these agreements. The Yenisei Kyrgyz continued to attack Russian lands even after Ireniak's death. Only their displacement by the Dzungars deep into Central Asia in 1703 put an end to this nearly century-long confrontation.

However, already in Soviet times, attempts to rehabilitate and glorify Irenyak began. For example, in Mikhail Kilchichakov's 1980 drama "Living Stones," dedicated to the friendship between Russians and Khakass people, the prototype for Prince Irenyak was apparently the real Prince Irenyak. However, unlike the real historical figure, the fictional hero did not fight against the Russians; instead, he appealed to Emperor Peter I with a request to accept the Khakass people as Russian subjects. The positive image of the fictional Irenyak could have contributed to the "rehabilitation" of the historical Irenyak, who, with weapons in his hands he actively fought against the Russians.

Another example of Irenyak's glorification is the heroic and romantic tale "Khan-bek Irenak. For Freedom!" by the Khakass poet Sergei Yegorovich Karachakov (1955–2019). In this work, Irenyak is portrayed as a national Khakass hero, a defender of his native land. "The thirst for profit for Russians / Is more precious than treaties." These are the lines he used to describe Russian pioneers. Therefore, the reader might get the impression that the Russians were the ones to blame for the Russian-Kyrgyz conflict.


Monument to Kezer-tash Irenyak, erected in the Ala-Kayin tract in 2013.

Such works distort the true historical image and glorify the Kyrgyz prince as a national hero of the Khakass people. In 2013, a monument in the form of an anthropomorphic stone statue, Kezer-Tash, was even erected to Irenyak at the confluence of the Bashkaus and Chulyshman rivers, where, according to legend, he was buried. The monument was erected by representatives of nine Ulagan seok clans with the assistance of the Department of Culture of the Ulagan District Administration of the Altai Republic.


Memorial complex on Mount Samokhval

Ireniak's popularity among modern Khakass people is evidenced by the fact that one of the elements of the Memorial Complex on Mount Samokhval in the city of Abakan, "Monument to the Ancient Warrior," is associated by many with Ireniak, although officially this sculpture is a collective image.


Monument to an ancient warrior

Today, Ireniak is portrayed as a ruler who fought for the independence of his people. However, the facts indicate that the underlying conflicts between Russia and Kyrgyzstan were the right to collect tribute from the Siberian peoples. Despite the image of a "freedom fighter," the real historical Ireniak was a vassal of the Dzungar khans and died fighting for the Dzungars' interests.

Furthermore, the very origin of the modern Khakass from the Yenisei Kyrgyz is questionable. Academician S.V. Bakhrushin, describing the "Kyrgyz land" on the Yenisei, wrote: "Despite its name, the Kyrgyz constituted only a small portion of its population." Since most of the Kyrgyz were deported to Central Asia by the Dzungars in 1703, it is likely that the modern Khakass ethnic group was formed from Turkic-speaking peoples who were former Kyshtyms, i.e., tributaries of the Kyrgyz, albeit with a small infusion of Kyrgyz. Thus, Irenyak was most likely an enslaver of the ancestors of the modern Khakass.


Minusinsk Tatar. Engraving

In any case, regardless of Ireniak's nationality, the glorification of this ruler, who spent his entire life fighting the Russians and robbing and killing representatives of the indigenous peoples of Siberia who became part of the Russian state, is a direct falsification of history and could contribute to the growth of interethnic tensions.

True heroes should be those representatives of the Siberian peoples who, united with Russians, shoulder to shoulder defended common interests. Such as the Arin princes Tatush and Abytai, and the sons of the Khakass people: Hero of the Soviet Union Mikhail Yegorovich Domozhakov, Hero of the Russian Federation Aimir Evgenievich Miyagashev, and many others.


Mikhail Yegorovich Domozhakov - Hero of the Soviet Union, participant in the Great Patriotic War


Aimir Evgenievich Miyagashev - Hero of the Russian Federation (posthumously), participant of the SVO

Sources:
Tarasov M.G. Novoselov M.Yu. The Image of the Kyrgyz Prince Irenyak in Modern Historical Memory // Krasnoyarsk Military-Historical Readings: Proc. of the III All-Russian Scientific and Practical Conf. Krasnoyarsk, December 9, 2025 / Ed. E.N. Garin. – Electronic data (7,4 MB). – Krasnoyarsk: Siberian Federal University, 2026 Access mode
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  1. +4
    4 August 2026 05: 20
    Who wants to share the money? So they fought for 100 years.
    And even further to the East, the Russian "pioneers" pacified the local "Indians" - the Yakuts and Eskimos - and also slaughtered each other.
    1. +6
      4 August 2026 18: 04
      They pacified the local "Indians" - the Yakuts and Eskimos - and also killed each other.
      And who didn’t cut the Old Testament in those times? laughing each other?
      *-Uncle, what are you doing? I’m one of our own, a Russian!
      "Now I'll show you, you Vladimir bastard!" A telling line from the film *Andrei Rublev*. They slaughtered everyone, slaughtered everyone, and then they made peace and slaughtered others. From century to century... Has anything changed? No, I haven't heard. bully
  2. -12
    4 August 2026 06: 00
    Are you suggesting that people forget their history and remember the history of the conquest of Siberia, polished by the victors?
    1. + 14
      4 August 2026 06: 18
      As I've already written, the Khakass people's descent from the Yenisei Kyrgyz is highly questionable. The Khakass people's ancestors were subordinate to the Kyrgyz. Therefore, considering Ireniak/Irenek a hero is like us Russians considering the khans of the Golden Horde as our national heroes.
      1. +2
        4 August 2026 07: 40
        …it’s like us Russians considering the khans of the Golden Horde as our national heroes.

        Why not - considering that the future Genghis Khan was born on the territory of modern Russia..., and the Russian Federation includes a number of regions that, from an ethnic point of view, are descendants of those very Mongols who stood under his banner!
        By the way, the role of the “yoke” in the development of Russia as an empire has not been fully revealed.
        By the way, if it weren’t for Batu Khan’s invasion, we wouldn’t be living in several states like Western Europe…
        1. +5
          4 August 2026 09: 54
          "Born in the territory of modern Russia" It would be cool that Genghis Khan was from the ancient Russians.🤣
          1. +5
            4 August 2026 13: 37
            Quote from lisikat2
            "Born in the territory of modern Russia" It would be cool that Genghis Khan was from the ancient Russians.🤣

            Timuchin was unlucky in his nationality – he was a Mongol, after all. As were the Buryats, though…
            However, the Tatar marker is highly valued in modern Russia. In most regions, it is the second or third largest ethnic group.
            1. +2
              4 August 2026 14: 34
              Namesake, hi. Remember how a few years ago, on this website, there were some people obsessed with "ancient Russians"?
              I remembered this when I read "Ancient Russians"
              1. +1
                4 August 2026 22: 28
                Good night, Namesake!
                How are you, I'm sincerely glad to see you at VO!!
                1. +1
                  5 August 2026 10: 20
                  Namesake, I used to check the site almost every day. The thing is, it's not always in: "History"
                  1. +1
                    5 August 2026 13: 59
                    Quote: vladcub
                    Namesake, I used to check the site almost every day. The thing is, it's not always in: "History"

                    I rarely go to others.
            2. +2
              6 August 2026 05: 57
              However, the Tatar marker is highly valued in modern Russia. In most regions, it is the second or third largest ethnic group.
              So, modern Tatars have little in common with the Mongol-Tatars. The Mongols destroyed the Volga Bulgaria, from which the Kazan Tatars trace their origins (although even here, the situation is not entirely clear). Many modern Tatars are physically indistinguishable from Russians, meaning they have considerable Russian blood. They simply have a fairly strong national identity.
              1. +1
                6 August 2026 14: 18
                So modern Tatars have little in common with the Mongol-Tatars

                Mikhail, you haven't discovered America...
                The problem lies elsewhere: who we understand Tatars to be. For example, Germans don't call themselves Germans, but Tatars consider themselves Tatars. However, for the millennium anniversary of the Bulgars, the Tatarstan administration made every effort to "rebaptize" its own people as Bulgars.
          2. +2
            6 August 2026 05: 51
            "Born in the territory of modern Russia" It would be cool that Genghis Khan was from the ancient Russians.🤣
            Thus, mathematicians Fomenko and Nosovsky, in their "new chronology," listed Batu as a Russian ruler. Batu comes from the word "father." laughing am
        2. +3
          6 August 2026 05: 47
          Why not - considering that the future Genghis Khan was born on the territory of modern Russia..., and the Russian Federation includes a number of regions that, from an ethnic point of view, are descendants of those very Mongols who stood under his banner!
          Who knows who was born in Russia? Alfred Rosenberg was born in the Russian Empire, studied in Moscow, and graduated from the Moscow Higher Technical School (MVTU) with a first-class diploma as a "certified engineer-architect." Why should we be proud of this Nazi? Rosenberg, that Genghis Khan was an enemy of the Russian people.
        3. +1
          6 August 2026 05: 48
          By the way, the role of the “yoke” in the development of Russia as an empire has not been fully revealed.
          It is Gumilev and the Eurasians who idealize the Mongol-Tatars.
      2. -6
        4 August 2026 13: 36
        So the Russians don't consider Irenak a hero, and I don't think you have the right to dictate who the Khakassians consider a national hero. "Siberia wasn't fought with carrots and persuasion alone; there were and are complaints."
        1. +3
          6 August 2026 06: 00
          and I don't think you have the right to say who the Khakassians consider a national hero.
          It is not the entire people, but some representatives of the intelligentsia who form such an image among the people.
      3. PC
        +3
        4 August 2026 17: 23
        Greetings from all sides, Mikhail! It's been a while since you've posted. As always, the material is interesting and informative! Don't disappear for too long. Sincerely.
        1. +1
          6 August 2026 06: 02
          Thank you, Nikolai Ivanovich. I'll try to rework some of my other publications and post them on this site.
      4. +2
        4 August 2026 18: 34
        For example, the Kachintsy lived near Krasnoyarsk. I live near Bugach station (a district of Krasnoyarsk). The Bugach River and the area are from Prince Kachinchev Bugach. The Kacha River within Krasnoyarsk also belongs to the Kachintsy. Within the city limits, there is Tatyshev Island on the Yenisei River (named Tatyshev after the revolution).
    2. +6
      4 August 2026 07: 31
      Quote: tabex
      Are you suggesting that people forget their history and remember the history of the conquest of Siberia, polished by the victors?

      Life is a tricky thing!
      At one time, I was struck by the description of the events of Bering's first and second Kamchatka expeditions, where the Chukchi, upon seeing our ships, threw stones at them. A "casual shift" occurred in my mind: we were exploring Siberia as a whole, and here we were.
      So here, Russia reached the Pacific Ocean in one century..., the same English (Americans) reached the west coast of North America only in the first quarter of the 19th century...
      Moreover, the foreigners on the path of the Russian Cossack, peasant and strelets had iron (and even firearms) weapons, horses and a stable socio-economic model of proto-state organization.
      For example, before the time of Peter the Great, Western Siberia was fed by... Bukharan caravans. It's no surprise that the local Khanty were willing to milk the Mansi and Nenets, sell their goods to the Bukharans, and be protected by the Russians. Russian commanders had their own views on these matters. So, furs were transported to Europe not by Bukharan caravans, but by Moscow sled trains.
      But Siberia is not America.
      The Bashkirs, Kalmyks, and Nogais had firearms. The Dzungars and Manchus even had cannons. There were also plenty of ideological followers of Khan Kuchum.
      For example, Salavat Yulaev...
      However, returning to the Khakass, the latter decided their own fate, ignoring the Dzungars' demand to resettle in Central Asia.
      In fact, remaining part of Russia was not a mistake and they inhabit at least three subjects of the Russian Federation: the Republic of Khakassia, the Altai Republic and the Altai Territory.
      The glorification of Prince Ireniak is a regurgitation of Soviet historical filth. Every nation should have its own hero, akin to the Tsarist regime. If not, we'll invent one. Incidentally, it's quite a profitable undertaking. Various pro-Western and pro-Turkish foundations have generously financed this, sometimes even under the auspices of UNESCO.
      Have a nice day, everyone!
      1. +5
        4 August 2026 10: 06
        “Salavat Yulaev” is Bashkir by nationality, and Kuchum is from Siberian Tatars.
        One defended his "state", the other was a robber
        1. +1
          4 August 2026 11: 58
          Girl, you're here!
          I am infinitely glad to see you...
          Burn, keep going...
          And if you can, forgive me. drinks good love )))
          1. +1
            4 August 2026 15: 10
            Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I had no complaints about you. I just disagree with you on one thing: I don't want the 37-year-old to return.
        2. +4
          4 August 2026 13: 40
          Quote from lisikat2
          “Salavat Yulaev” is Bashkir by nationality, and Kuchum is from Siberian Tatars.
          One defended his "state", the other was a robber

          Yeah, he's quite a controversial figure, especially in the Urals, where nearly a dozen factories were burned down under his command.
      2. +4
        4 August 2026 16: 30
        Dear Mr. Kokhanka (Vladislav), sir, we need to find a fund among the Hungarians, Estonians, and Finns to create at least some princeling of the Udora land who fought against the Novgorod troops. (This is my broad and deep sarcasm.) Nicholas II: "The Grand Prince of Novgorod of the lower lands, Chernigov, Ryazan, Polotsk, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Belozersk, Udora, Obdorsk, Kondiysky, Vitebsk..." But if information can be found about the princelings of Obdorsk, Pelym, Kondinsky, Kodsky, Lyapinsky, Sosvinsky, then who and how led the Komi-Zyryans from the banks of the Vychegda to Vashka and Mezen from the Novgorod troops that tried to impose tribute on the Komi on the Vychegda, and later imposed Christianity - is a complete fog of time.
        1. +2
          4 August 2026 17: 29
          Good evening, dear Evgeniy!
          You won't believe it, but there are plenty of such heroes among the Finno-Ugrians.
          For example, the story of Konda (the Kondinsky Principality) becoming part of Russia – from hatred to love and vice versa…
          Murza Chatyrko, taking advantage of the turmoil, raised an uprising, but the Pelym governor took him in hand.
          Should Chityrko be considered a hero of the Vogul-Osiyaks? The Konda princes living in Pelym Fortress at the time didn't, nor did the residents of Bolshaya and Malaya Konda themselves. They handed the rebellious murza over to the authorities.
          By the way, the Kondinsky princes quietly collected yasak from their subjects, and the latter wrote petitions to the tsar and the voivode.
          I'll provide a map of the West Siberian principalities specifically so that it's at least clear what I'm talking about.
          P.S. The Principality of Bardakovo impressed even me...
          1. +2
            4 August 2026 18: 54
            I don't know anything about the Bardakov Principality. I haven't seen the chronicles, of course, and I haven't looked at Vika yet.
          2. +1
            4 August 2026 19: 56
            Dear Mr. Kokhanka (Vladislav), my dear sir, I'm specifically talking about Udora and its princelings... I read that the Pelym prince Kikhek led a campaign against Cherdyn and plundered the Komi-Permyaks in the surrounding area in 1581, but was unable to take the city due to the Russians' competent defense. Moreover, that year, detachments of Votyaks, Bashkirs, and Sylven Tatars attacked the Stroganov towns on the Chusovaya River... And earlier, in 1446, the Novgorod boyar Vasily Shenkursky and voivode Mikhail Yakovlya assembled an army of 3,000 men from the Vyatka, Veliky Ustyug, Vaz, and Toymichi tribes and marched to Yugra. A fort was established, and the Novgorodians took many Mansi captive, along with their wives and children. The Yugor princes negotiated for a long time, stalling for time, then, under the leadership of the Pelym prince Asyk, inflicted a crushing defeat on the Novgorodians. Vasily Shenkursky, his son Semyon, and the remnants of his detachment barely escaped, thanks only to the military talents of their commander. The Shenkurskys became the founders of the Shenkursky, Gruzov, Edemsky, and Svojezemsky clans in the Novgorod and Dvina lands, and, after Novgorod's complete subjugation by Moscow, in the Kostroma region as well. I was surprised that the Toimichi are mentioned separately, alongside the Vyatka and Veliky Ustyug warriors. Between the right tributaries of the Northern Dvina—the Nizhnyaya Toyma and Verkhnyaya Toyma rivers—there are only about 40 km. The Novgorod boyar Vasily, son of Matvey Shenkursky, bought the Shenkursky pogost on the Vaga River, the left tributary of the Northern Dvina, in 1315 or 1322, earning him the nickname Shenkursky. He founded a family and then acquired more land along the Vaga. It's clear that Shenkursky gathered warriors from his Vaga lands for the 1446 campaign. Why the Toymichi from the right bank of the Northern Dvina were singled out remains a mystery to me to this day. I haven't read anything about the principality there, and there were no medieval towns like Kargopol, Veliky Ustyug, Vyatka, Cherdyn, or even Shenkursk or Yarensk, nor any monasteries. It's unclear; the mists of time have long since passed.
            1. +1
              4 August 2026 22: 39
              that the Toymichi are mentioned separately, along with the Vyatka and Veliky Ustyug warriors

              Why not? Perhaps the chronicler's grandmother was from Tomsk, or perhaps he remembered fishing on the upper Tom. That's it. Mere speculation doesn't matter in the historical perspective.
        2. +1
          4 August 2026 18: 44
          "complete fog of times" in my opinion one can only guess about this period.
    3. +3
      4 August 2026 18: 06
      and remember the history of the conquest of Siberia, polished by the victors?
      Does this truly objective and truthful story actually exist?! Not just in our country, but on a global scale? bully
  3. + 10
    4 August 2026 09: 05
    Quote: tabex
    Are you suggesting that people forget their history and remember the history of the conquest of Siberia, polished by the victors?

    Yes, it's bad when people remember history but forget it, but it's worse when they don't know it but invent a new one...
    For example, when this monument to Irenyak was erected, the Zaisans of the local clans (Teleuts) of the Ulagansky district of the Altai Republic declared themselves his descendants...

    He (Irenyak) was not a defender of “his people”.
    1. +1
      4 August 2026 19: 06
      Everyone needs a great ancestor. You have the same thing, erecting monuments to epic heroes.
  4. +4
    4 August 2026 09: 11
    The right to collect tribute is a right symbolizing authority over the territory from which tribute is collected. That's all. This feudal right has no connection to the concepts of "sovereignty" or "independence." Nation states only emerged at the very end of the 18th century.
  5. +3
    4 August 2026 09: 43
    Good morning friends.
    "THIRST FOR PROFIT", and who hasn't had "thirst for profit"?
    What, the Spanish conquistadors, Dezhnev, Erofey Pavlovich, they were all adventurers, and money for them was, so to speak, a "prize"?
  6. +5
    4 August 2026 11: 45
    I was shocked to the core by this article...
    My dear colleagues...
    For several months now I have been in not just a depressive state, but in a bipolar disorder, because of what is happening.
    Even though I always considered myself a strong person. But now, I'm 79, and I realize I'm nothing and no one in this world. Because I have no strength. Forgive my outburst. I'm one of those leaving. I bless the young Russians for their heroic deeds. But not at all for the SVO. For the heroic deed of preserving the Russian nation. We, the weak, the past, will pass away. The angry, aspiring young will remain.
    Remember your history!
    Remember our roots!
    Remember our original territory!
    Our territory has shaped us into who we are.
    And only she is our homeland.
    Love you all! love ))))
    .
  7. +5
    4 August 2026 11: 50
    Thanks to the VO website for its unconditional truth!
    I love you all, guys from the Administration. Especially those who banned me more than once.
    We are together!
    1. +1
      4 August 2026 23: 19
      Oh, come on, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! I'll see you tomorrow. Do you still owe me one (or do I?)? what).
  8. +1
    4 August 2026 14: 05
    "I chose for myself" wow, it was cool: they come to Vasily the Great Sinner,
    - Mr. Mnogogreshny, the garrison has chosen you as its commander.
  9. +1
    4 August 2026 14: 20
    "can easily break a contract" it seems Ribbentrop said: "contracts are made to be broken" (C)
  10. +4
    4 August 2026 16: 52
    Unfortunately, literally EVERYONE is actively falsifying history, especially the nationalistically preoccupied representatives of the former Soviet republics. We've long been witnessing what this has led to in Ukraine. We'll see what will happen in the Central Asian states. But I've personally already encountered gems like the Kazakhs defeating Napoleon. Real Kazakhs themselves have refuted this nonsense, but the charade continues to circulate. Nationalism sells the easiest thing...
  11. +1
    4 August 2026 22: 21
    In Soviet ideology, all who harmed Tsarist Russia are portrayed as heroes: Pugachev, Bolotnikov, Razin, Bulavin, Shamil, Sergei Yulaev, and so on. Modern-day petty Nazis from small nations simply continue this glorious tradition. Especially since Moscow not only fails to combat this, but sometimes even goes so far as to accommodate them.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      6 August 2026 08: 26
      In Soviet ideology, all those who harmed Tsarist Russia were portrayed as heroes.
      Consider the consequences of such a Russophobic approach. In the ethnic outskirts of the Russian Empire, many members of the nobility and aristocracy loyally served the Russian tsars. The communists, however, nurtured a national intelligentsia that contributed to the country's collapse. A striking example is the Chechen poet Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev, one of the founders of separatism. From the leader of a literary circle, this Soviet intellectual transformed into one of the leaders of terrorists.
  12. 0
    5 August 2026 01: 48
    Quote: tabex
    Everyone needs a great ancestor. You have the same thing, erecting monuments to epic heroes.

    Yes, they erect monuments to epic heroes, but when someone claims to be a descendant of Dobrynya Nikitich or Mikula Selyaninovich, they will be laughed at.

    You misunderstood my comment. It's not about the monument—there are plenty of such "stone women" in the steppe. It's about making up history...

    Is there a single people - the Khakass?
    Thus, the Teleuts or Tubalars in the Altai Republic do not consider themselves Altaians.
    1. +3
      5 August 2026 11: 10
      Thirty or fifty years ago, one could argue about this; there were many old people who still divided people into Kachins, Sagays, and so on. Now, that's rare. I think, yes, it can be called unified.
      I lived through an era when people explained to me, "We are Khakass and Kachins," but "khass tadar nimes," meaning the Kachins don't have a local name for themselves. This isn't a point anymore. Many people don't know the history and don't even know that the Kachins were resettled to the territory of the modern republic during the reign of Catherine the Great.
      Catherine the Great resettled so many people across the Russian Empire, Germans from Europe, Ukrainians From Little Russia to the Russian Empire, Russians to Ukraine, back and forth in Siberia - Stalin is "resting" with the Chechens and Germans.
  13. -1
    5 August 2026 05: 18
    "In the first half of the 17th century, Khongorai fell into vassalage to the Mongol Altyn Khans." The Altyn Khans were not Mongol khans, but Tuvan khans. The Altyn Khans ruled the southern, central, and eastern parts of Tuva, while the western part of modern Tuva was at that time under the control of the Dzungars. Naturally, after the mid-18th century, all the peoples of the Altai-Sayan region came under the control of the Qing Empire of China. There is historical evidence that the first Russian envoys met the Altyn Khans in the 17th century and asked for directions to China. They immediately robbed them, taking the sable coats of Altyn Khan and his wife. The seal of the Tuvan rulers, the Altyn Khans, was seized by the Mongols when they became allies of the Qing Empire during the Dzungar Wars.
  14. +4
    5 August 2026 10: 54
    Hello everyone from Khakassia.
    There's this thing about local nationalists praising Erenak bek. I read the sources myself a few years ago and found it funny. The thing is, local nationalists criticize the Dzungars—probably a remnant of Soviet propaganda—while praising Erenak bek. I loved quoting the Dzungar ruler, where he calls Erenak bek his "favorite nephew." lol
    I'd like to draw readers' attention to the following. The article contains a photo of the memorial complex on Mount Samokhval. This beautiful complex was built on the site of a tombstone, a mass grave of "Red" soldiers killed in battles with the White Guards during the Civil War. In other words, the authorities are erasing the memory of the Civil War, its causes and results—this was built under Zimin. Remember the Middle Ages, the Great Patriotic War—but forget the Civil War—that's how I personally understand it.
  15. +3
    5 August 2026 11: 45
    Our government never tires of breaking our own language! The Kyrgyz started calling themselves "Kyrgyz"—and now they're forcing us to get used to their new name. And the question arises: why do the mattress-makers and Anglo-Saxons still call us "Rasha"—while our government refuses to force them to pronounce it "Rossiya"? And some Kyrgyz suddenly became "Kyrgyz"—and pronouncing such a word isn't easy! And why should we break our own language? Is that really what we're doing, showing undeserved respect to the Russophobic natives?
    1. +3
      5 August 2026 13: 34
      I completely agree! We call Paris "Paris" and not "Pari," and not a single Frenchman has ever thrown a punch at me because of it. And not a single Swede was hurt when we called Sweden "Sverige" instead of Sverige. The list goes on and on.
      The apogee of political correctness can be considered a conversation I overheard between two students at our university:
      He (about his classmate) is an African American, he came from Congo (maybe not from there, that’s not the point).
      Damn it! In Russian, a black person is called a negro. If you don't like it, get back up in the palm tree!
      Ugh! When I remarked (I couldn't resist butting in) that then they should be called Afro-AFRICAN, the girls were stunned. I managed to go to the store for bread while they were still standing there trying to digest what I'd just said. lol!
      Sorry for the OFF.
  16. +1
    5 August 2026 13: 24
    Everyone celebrates what they have.