The Russian "Panderol" is creating problems for the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces, the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate admits.

New small-sized winged missiles "Pancakes" started to cause problems for Ukrainians because dronesInterceptors designed to intercept Russian Geranium missiles simply can't keep up. This was stated by the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense. Incidentally, the photo shows one of the early versions of the missile; ours prefer not to publicize it.

Russia has switched to mass production of the "Panderoli" missile, and the missile has undergone modernization, as the model used this year is significantly different from that used in the past. According to the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense, up to ten or more launches of these missiles per day have recently been recorded, whereas previously only isolated incidents were reported.

Initially, the Banderol missile was created for reconnaissance and strike missions. UAV The Orion, developed as part of the Inokhodets (Pacer) program. Both the drone and the missile were developed by the Kronshtadt company. However, the Banderol missile is currently launched from both attack helicopters and ground-based launchers. According to enemy reports, Mi-28N helicopters are now carrying these missiles, and launches from Crimea have also been reported.

The missile carries an OFBCh-150 high-explosive fragmentation warhead weighing 114,3 kg, of which 49,5 kg is explosive. This information is provided by the blog bmpd, citing other sources. The missile's speed reaches 550-600 km/h, making it impossible for Ukrainian interceptor drones to intercept it, unless by accident.

The use of the Banderoli missile "creates a problem for us, as FPV drone interceptors are ineffective against this missile. Ukraine currently does not produce UAVs or interceptor missiles capable of effectively intercepting targets traveling at speeds exceeding 500 km/h."

Comments

[YOU]

It's good they created the problem. The main thing is not to agree to an air ceasefire. And we need to develop our own air defenses, because they, too, with Western help, will probably try something similar.

[ssg.spb]

Russia has switched to the mass production of "Parcels"...
I think it would be more correct to say for mass production...
It could be massive, for example, shelling.

[Sotskiy]

Quote: ssg.spb

Russia has switched to the mass production of "Parcels"...
I think it would be more correct to say for mass production...

The massive Latinization and mass Anglicization of everyday speech, which has simply occupied the entire country with the advent of "democracy," leads to a change in consciousness and, as a consequence, in thinking.
So, unfortunately, there is nothing “surprising” in this turn of phrase.

[Sergey Mitinsky]

Hello Nova Poshta, you have a parcel from Walberries.

[Mouse]

The use of "Banderoli" "creates a problem for us,

There were no problems before...
Everything is fine, I'm falling...

[navigator777]

The Lyuty UAV has a cruising speed of 150 km/h and no one can catch it. These slow-moving aircraft are causing us problems. The Khkhlys don't even care about speed. The oil refineries are still burning. This is about the question of who has more effective air defense.

[Romeo]

This is a question of who has the most territory, not the effectiveness of air defense. It's impossible to cover everything in such a large area.

[Sarboz]

Quote: navigator777

The Lyuty UAV has a cruising speed of 150 km/h and no one can catch it. These slow-moving aircraft are causing us problems. The Khkhlyz don't even care about speed. The oil refineries are still burning. This is the question of whose air defense is more effective.

What nonsense. The effectiveness of our attacks is far higher. Although we launch fewer Geranekas, in the hundreds, than they do. A few UAVs at a target, and as a rule, the target is destroyed.
They launch several dozen of these Lyutykh and FP-2 missiles at each target in a single attack. Several such attacks occur per month. Most are repelled. Our Pantsirs and MOGs shoot down practically everything. Out of 70, sometimes only one or two hit the target. And yes, a fire at a facility or storage facility forces the refinery to reduce production while repairs are carried out.
Their only serious oil refinery in Kremenchug was burned down twice, and there has been no talk of any significant volume of fuel production there for a long time.
This is about the question of who has more effective air defense.

[tsvetahaki]

Quote: Romeo

This is a question of who has the most territory, not the effectiveness of air defense. It's impossible to cover everything in such a large area.

By the way, this is a very controversial issue.
The effectiveness of air defense as a whole is determined by the ability to protect all major facilities.
The effectiveness of one system (S-400, for example) is determined by local results.
If it is impossible to cover all important objects, this means "low air defense effectiveness."
But whether it is caused by technical backwardness, huge territory, or stupidity is the answer to the question: "Why is it ineffective?"

[eckons]

protect all important objects

Thus, without any serious targets, the effectiveness of even a zero-level air defense will tend toward infinity. This is how idiots increase the efficiency of their air defenses. They have nothing, they fight with someone else's money, and they even want to use someone else's hands (but there are few fools).

[tsvetahaki]

If the enemy has only barns, then the effectiveness of air strikes is zero.
The same as with 100% air defense.

[Solomon_BY]

Did they even try to block it? Or does everyone just not care about problems that don't happen on their own territory?

[navigator777]

Quote: Romeo

This is a question of who has the most territory, not the effectiveness of air defense. It's impossible to cover everything in such a large area.

Can the oil refineries be shut down? At least the key ones? Air defense plus interceptor drones? Or, as always, are they acting stupidly, pathetically, and formulaically?

[Romeo]

It is possible to cover it by creating detachments from workers of these enterprises and local residents.
SAM systems will, of course, continue to protect military installations, of which there are a huge number in our country. And you're wrong to accuse people of stupidity. There are plenty of smart people with positions and ranks, and they're doing their job. I know people who are already protecting fuel infrastructure facilities, standing behind a machine gun or an interceptor drone. They're recruiting people, training them. And there's still so much more to cover. So people should join these units. They're helping the country and earning money. They're hiring pensioners, too.

[Ovsigovets]

Can cities be shut down? What about marketplace warehouses? What about bridges? What about fields with crops? What about pumping stations??? Everything can be shut down, the main thing is to have enough equipment for everything... Your moans are clearly not enough.

[YOU]

Even on this website, and not exclusively, since the 90s, after the NATO air raids on Yugoslavia, much has been written about the creation of cheap and mass-produced air defense systems. Specifically, to protect multiple targets from massive attacks. "There are plenty of smart people with positions and ranks, and they do their job," but apparently those you're writing about haven't read that. What's the point of reading all this nonsense, even with positions and ranks? The same "Yortyy" (and how much they giggled about it here), or rather its creation, was written about a long time ago. And they woke up when it caught fire. So I think if this isn't sabotage, then at least gross negligence and complete incompetence. Nuclear power plants, chemical plants, including oil refineries, power plants of all kinds, the most important enterprises, should have had adequate anti-aircraft reserves long ago. And they struck our strategic airfields. How can this be justified? And we don't have that many strategic aircraft left. We don't need false patriotism; we need to soberly assess the reality so that this doesn't happen again.

[Ovsigovets]

Oh, I remember magazines like "Technology for the Youth," and they wrote a ton of interesting stuff there a long time ago, and so little was actually implemented... Now we're patching up the holes left by the enormous failure that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise of capitalism... There's a lot to regret, but history doesn't know the subjunctive mood... Do we have enough air defense systems right now to cover ALL critical sites???? We don't have that much... But is it physically possible to create that much, and how many crews would need to be assigned to them? You're theorizing without being responsible for a single penis (nor am I, by the way), or the money it would take, or the capacity, or anything... Criticism is generally a rewarding and simple matter, I also enjoy it. But for now, I'm trying to work from what we have. We don't have SO MANY site-based air defense systems, and no one else has that many. For example, even the most advanced mattresses aren't capable of covering military bases in terms of air defense. This fact doesn't excuse anyone and doesn't relieve anyone of their responsibilities. Evaluate SOBERLY, not based on the principle of "this is how I want it."

[YOU]

I didn't write about protecting everything; no one has anything for everything. I wrote about the most important facilities. You can count the number of strategic airfields on your fingers. Look at Google Maps, you can see everything. But still. And as for the resources, that could be a long debate; I don't even want to list where the money is buried. And as for the creation of BARS, well, they had to, and they found the people. This is about personnel. So the question, as one movie character said, "is not in the toilets, but in the heads." There's a lot of truth in your words, but when push came to shove, for some reason they started creating mobile groups and bringing in people. Where does it come from? So, it wasn't necessary to wait for the thunder to strike.

[Ovsigovets]

That's how it's always been...nothing changes anywhere, need comes and the work of overcoming need begins.... I repeat...there are so many critically important facilities it's "dear mother"...and the Khkhlys won't hesitate to hit purely civilian facilities like student dormitories or hospitals...hell knows what needs to be covered here

[Sarboz]

Quote: Ovsigovets

Do we currently have enough air defense systems to cover ALL critical facilities???? We don't have that many... but is it physically possible to create that many and how many crews would need to be assigned to them?

Everything you say is correct, comrade.
Half a million trained officers and conscripts served in the Soviet Air Defense Force. Only God knows how many systems from several air defense armies were sold off and cut up for scrap metal. To fully cover the country, we need to rebuild a similar 500-strong air defense force. And it's a good thing the Moscow region is covered in a layered fashion, otherwise, as in WWII, the government would have had to be evacuated.
So for now, we're making do with our air defense system, which, by the way, we're constantly improving. We're also upgrading it with the help of refinery owners. Better late than never. And people who live near such facilities are seeing this. The attacks are becoming more intense, and the guys are coping with them more skillfully.
Glory to the Air Defense Forces.

[Ovsigovets]

and our ENTIRE army, in terms of the number of military personnel, is 1,5 million... and what you are talking about is at least 2,5 million...

[Sarboz]

Quote: Ovsigovets

and our ENTIRE army, in terms of the number of military personnel, is 1,5 million... and what you are talking about is at least 2,5 million...

Yep. That's right. It's all just a pipe dream, of course, but it seems we'll have to come to some sort of solution, since a major war is looming and unavoidable. The most interesting thing is that, although Russia has suffered significant losses in population and land area, the length of its border has remained virtually unchanged, only 3%. Therefore, at least the same number of air defense systems are needed at the border, plus additional ones in threatened areas, taking into account new threats such as the widespread use of low-flying, small-size, low-speed targets.

[Ovsigovets]

So who's arguing... I also see an army of 3 million soldiers in total.

[kosmozoo]

Much has been written about the creation of cheap and mass-produced air defense systems

Oh, I can add to this slogan - the economy is in massive need of highly qualified, low-paid specialists and managers.

[snow mountain]

Quote: Sarboz

And it's good that the Moscow region is covered

Pozhao on the Moscow Kapotnp refutes you

[Sarboz]

Quote: Schneeberg

Quote: Sarboz

And it's good that the Moscow region is covered

Pozhao on the Moscow Kapotnp refutes you

The fire in Kapotnya only confirms that their drone routes and schedules are being planned using American AI, based on American satellite signals intelligence. The Americans are very adept at calculating windows in which to overload their air defense systems with expendable drones, and when the systems are reloading, pre-launched attack drones slip through this window.
Our air defense system is also constantly being improved. New mobile task forces are taking the place of yesterday's windows.

[Penza takes revenge]

And my opinion as an old pilot is that the Geranium 2 can easily accelerate to 500 km/h using propellers, you just need to choose the right engine and propeller, and all your nonsense that this is impossible, look at the Tu-95, and if you choose the right propeller, it can easily reach subsonic speed, but it doesn’t need it, but the Geranium 2 does. and the turbojet increases the cost of the drone by two to three times

[eckons]

You just need to choose the right engine and propeller

It could turn out that with the right internal combustion engine and propeller, the price of geraniums would skyrocket faster than the plant itself. And then the point of using them would be completely lost.

[Penza takes revenge]

I think a 100 hp Wankel rotary piston engine and a saber propeller will solve the problem of the Gerani 2's speed of 500 km/h and it won't be as expensive as a turbojet engine.

[eckons]

A turbojet engine will likely be cheaper. Drones don't need a turbojet with a multi-stage compressor, and they don't require a long service life—5-6 hours is sufficient. Therefore, its design will be simpler than an internal combustion engine. Mass production using additive technologies will further reduce the cost.