Military Review

Truth and Fiction about the Ice Battle

57
In the 1242 year, on the April 11, according to the Gregorian calendar, one of the most famous battles in the Russian military stories - the famous Ice Battle.


In 1237, a terrible disaster struck Russia from the east - a Mongol-Tatar invasion. During the first campaign of Batu, the north-eastern Russian principalities were ravaged. During the second campaign in 1239, the south of Kievan Rus was ravaged.

Russia as a whole was very much weakened. And at this time the onslaught on the Russian lands from the west intensified. German knights long ago settled in the Baltic States. At first it was the Order of the Sword, which by the described events had already ceased to exist after a severe defeat. It was replaced by the Teutonic Order, and directly on the lands of modern Latvia and Estonia was a vassal of the Teutonic Order - the Livonian Order. These were the German knight's spiritual orders, that is, powerful military organizations that solved the task of spreading the Catholic faith among the pagans with the help of a sword. At the same time, they were not even interested in the fact that, for example, the Russian lands were Christian, Orthodox. From their point of view, this did not change anything.

And so, taking advantage of the weakening of Russia, the troops of the Livonian Order took Izborsk, and then approached Pskov itself. Pskov knights managed to take with the help of treason. Part of the Pskov, led by Posad Tverdiloy decided to go to the hands of the Germans. They invited the Germans as military rulers of Pskov. Vogts were placed in the city (these are governors of the Livonian Order). And, actually relying on Pskov, the knights began to wage war against Novgorod in order to weaken Novgorod, and, if possible, to capture it. At least at the first stage to intercept his trade.

The Livonians built a fortress on the Koporye graveyard, which allowed them to intercept Novgorod merchants who were going along the Neva to the Gulf of Finland, and allowed them to raid both on the banks of the Neva and on the banks of the Volkhov, and even in the vicinity of Novgorod. The position of Novgorod became desperate. Novgorod only shortly before this - in 1240 year - with the help of Prince Alexander, the landing of the Swedes on the Neva, where the earl of Birger was broken, was helped by Prince Alexander. But after this battle Novgorod quarreled with Alexander and drove him out of Novgorod. Rather, it’s not that all Novgorodians are Novgorod boyars. And now, when Novgorod began to suffer defeats from the Livonians, the Chamber decided to turn again to Alexander, who at that time already had the well-deserved nickname Nevsky - with a victory over the Swedes. And Alexander was again invited to reign in Novgorod.

The first thing he did was take Kopor'e in the year of 1241, that is, he opened the Novgorod trade routes back and made it impossible for the Germans to raid directly on Novgorod. Then, in the 1242 year, Alexander Nevsky, as it was then said, took Pskov as an exile, that is, seized it on the move. Traitors were executed, German vogts were sent to Novgorod, Pskov again became a Russian city. Then Alexander Nevsky took Izborsk and moved the war to the territory of the order. We came directly to the moment when the Battle of the Ice took place.

How is it written in the Simeon Chronicle? “The Master, having heard of this, went against them with all his bishops and with all the multitude of people from their country, however many people there were in their country, and with the help of the king of Denmark. And they descended on Lake Chudskoye. Grand Duke Alexander came back. The Germans and chud followed him. The Grand Duke set up shelves on Lake Peipsi, on Uzmen at the Crow's Stone. Inspired by the power of the cross, and prepared for battle, he went against them. The troops converged on Lake Peipsi. There were many warriors on both sides. ”

And here, in fact, what is most interesting? Now there are people who question the very fact of the Battle of the Ice. They cite the fact that it was not possible to find large deposits of metal at the bottom of Lake Peipsi, which did not succeed in finding the Crow Stone. The description of the Ice Battle, traditionally studied even in schools, dates back to a later time. That is, when it is told about how Alexander Nevsky put troops on the ice of Lake Peipsi, singled out an ambush regiment, about how he prepared for the battle, hoping that the Livonians could fall through the ice, and how the knightly cavalry attacked him " pig ", supported by infantry, consisting of bollards. It is clear that this description is hardly true. It is difficult to imagine the closed masses of knightly cavalry on the ice in April.

The Germans are not suicides, and ours too. But to deny the fact of the battle is stupid and pointless.

The fact is that it is described not only in Russian sources. It is mentioned not only in the Life of Alexander Nevsky, not only in the annals and not only in the writings of later Russian historians. This battle is also mentioned in Livonian sources: for example, in The Rhymed Chronicle. True, the description there looks a little different. According to this chronicle, the troops fought not against the master of the Livonian Order against Alexander Nevsky, but against one of his biggest vassals, the Dorpat bishop Hermann. And these troops consisted of, strictly speaking, the knights of the Bishop of Dorpat, of the order's brothers and of the guests of the order. The guests of the order are secular knights who did not accept the monastic rite, in short, did not become monks and, nevertheless, are in the service of the order.

And also these were the warriors of the knights themselves. The fact is that each knight was a commander of a spear, usually numbering from seven to ten soldiers. That is, the knight himself, the squire (if it is a knight of the Order, then the squire was usually a novice of the order, also a heavily armed cavalryman) and infantrymen-knights. And besides this infantry, there was also the city militia of the city of Dorpat, that is, the heavily armed city infantry.

The order's army was strong enough and tried to strike a real blow at the forces of Alexander Nevsky. And it really intercepted his troops near Lake Peipsi. The battle has happened. And the fact that the “Rhymed Chronicle” mentions the grass under the horses' hoofs and does not mention anything about a fight on the ice does not change the essence of the battle that took place. And the essence of this battle is that the order troops, powerful, well-armed, and perfectly prepared, were completely defeated in the battle on Lake Peipsi.

Truth and Fiction about the Ice Battle

And if in our country this is attributed solely to the valor of our troops, skillful maneuvering and the ice that fell under the German knights, the Germans are trying to find an excuse in the cowardice of the Dorpat militia, who, having seen the complete defeat of the knights, decided not to fight (probably correctly decided, given that by then the knights were already completely defeated), and in the cunning and cunning of the Russians. The Germans tried to find an excuse for themselves, but they did not dare deny the fact that their army was completely defeated. And on this the Order of aggression against the Novgorod land was stopped.

Where did the description of the battle on the ice come from, this knightly wedge, where more and more lines of knights gradually stand: five knights, seven, nine, and so on; and the wedge, whose head and flanks are horsemen, is filled with bollards inside. This description is taken from a later battle. The fact is that there was another major battle where the order troops were defeated by the Russians. This is the famous Battle of Rakovor. It has now been safely forgotten, but it seems from the description of this battle, apparently, the compilers of the chronicles took the description of the Ice Battle, because contemporaries did not leave a detailed description. Therefore, it does not make sense to search directly on Lake Peipsi, that is, on its water surface, nor the Crow Stone, much less look for the “warehouse” of sunken knights under water. This is most likely not there. But on the shores of Lake Peipsi, the knights suffered a crushing defeat from the Russian troops: Novgorod, Suzdal, led by Alexander Nevsky.

In order to have at least some idea of ​​national military history, one must not read Fomenko-Nosovsky or conspiracy theories. It is necessary to read books like the Reader on Russian Military History. This is an important initial reading to get the base. It is here - the documents, primary sources, on the basis of which you yourself can draw further conclusions.

Author:
Originator:
http://zavtra.ru/
57 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Denis
    Denis 30 May 2013 08: 13 New
    18
    in the treachery and cunning of the Russians. The Germans tried to find a justification for themselves
    It’s a pity the poor fellow. Are they somewhere in Germany or on the Peipsi rake?
    Blame yourself, wandered wrong
    And there was a day of diving, whether they broke it on ice or not, it’s already a second time.
    Refers to the fact that it was not possible to find large deposits of metal at the bottom of Lake Peipsi, that it was not possible to find the Raven Stone
    And the fact that metal is susceptible to corrosion, the bottom is silted up and the level of the lake is changing, unfortunate historians should not think
    Pskov knights managed to take with the help of treason. Some of the Pskovs, led by the posadnik Tverdilaya, decided to go under the arm of the Germans.
    Why didn’t they rename him into the consonant Pedril, the traitor deserves it
    Or then there was no entrance? laughing
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco 30 May 2013 16: 46 New
      +6
      The most interesting thing is that more than one century has passed, and we have the same problems as 8 centuries ago.
      . Some of the Pskovs, led by the posadnik Tverdilaya, decided to go under the arm of the Germans. They invited the Germans as military rulers of Pskov.
      It’s just the same people, only we tried to do this in Moscow in the swamp.
      1. Anat1974
        Anat1974 30 May 2013 22: 04 New
        0
        "The traitors were executed, the Germans were sent to Novgorod" - in those days the issues were solved easier. Isn't it time to revive traditions?
      2. aviator46
        aviator46 2 June 2013 00: 48 New
        +1
        Awoke )))
        In the Kremlin, already 20 years ago they came under the "hand" of the United States ..
        All "reforms" under American leadership ... and the sovereign's money, is not kept in Russia
    2. Ghenxnumx
      Ghenxnumx 30 May 2013 17: 42 New
      +5
      Quote: Author Boris Yulin
      Refers to the fact that it was not possible to find large deposits of metal at the bottom of Lake Peipsi, that it was not possible to find the Raven Stone

      Quote: Denis
      And the fact that metal is susceptible to corrosion, the bottom is silted up and the level of the lake is changing, unfortunate historians should not think

      Everything is much simpler - at that time weapons and armor worth its weight in gold were sold, you can earn money on a decent farm using the weapons of one knight (similar to a decent tank in our time), even if someone drowned in armor, they pulled and undressed everyone with hooks and nets who will leave such a good in water. hi
      1. Denis
        Denis 31 May 2013 00: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: Ghen75
        all with hooks and nets pulled and stripped
        Also a kind of corrosion wink
        withered and not ishi
  2. erased
    erased 30 May 2013 08: 28 New
    13
    And what does the author say about the works of Guts, Zhabinsky, Shilnik, Kalyuzhny, Morozov, Newton? Is that all nonsense too?
    Then maybe the author knows something about the works of Scaliger and Petavius? After all, their works formed the basis of modern chronology. But how did they create it ?!
    With regards to the battle itself - apparently there was such an event. And Prince Alexander defeated the enemies in battle. Honor and glory to him! Like everyone who defended Russia at all times and eras!
    But I would very much like to know. how it really was. Unfortunately this is not possible. But to find out a more or less real version of the events of at least some times is quite accessible.
    1. Valery-SPB
      Valery-SPB 30 May 2013 10: 51 New
      +2
      I advise you not to read Shilnik. In the book about Alexander ("Was there a boy") he has continuous quotations and compilations, not a single thought of his own, but Alexander Nesterenko ("Alexander Nevsky. Who won the Battle of the Ice") is very interesting.
    2. tomket
      tomket 31 May 2013 15: 05 New
      0
      tie with Nosovsky)
  3. Boris55
    Boris55 30 May 2013 08: 56 New
    +3
    Simultaneously with the Nevsky in the north and the "Tatar-Mongol yoke" in the center (a difference of about a week), a crushing blow was dealt to the cross-bearers, who stopped their capture of Rus for 300 years ... It is a pity that the "Tatar-Mongol yoke" was almost managed to reach Rome ...
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 30 May 2013 23: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: Boris55
      The "Tatar-Mongol yoke" in the center (a difference of about a week) dealt a crushing blow to the bearers of the cross, which stopped their capture of Rus for 300 years ...

      The "invasion of Batu" most surprisingly coincides with the peak of the most acute administrative and political crisis that was raging in Russia. At the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the fragmentation of the principalities reached an extreme degree. This is due to the fact that in Russia, in modern terms, there was an overproduction of princes. The supply exceeded the demand - there were too many princes, and there were not enough thrones. "Tatars" appear and put things in order! In the years immediately preceding the "Tatar" invasion, Russia was mired in endless wars, unrest, and bloody confusion. With the appearance of the Tatars, everything changes in the most dramatic way: order reigns, among the many Russian princes one becomes the eldest, having received the so-called label for the "great reign". Those who are trying to oppose this order of things and unleash internecine wars in the old fashioned way are attacked with enviable and mysterious regularity by the "Horde" cavalry.
      There is no need to invent anything and to pull by the ears. A detailed acquaintance with the activities of the "Horde" in Russia leads to the conclusion: the "Horde" were not engaged in other matters, except for maintaining order in Russia. And again this is a unique situation: Tatars behave this way only in Russia. In other countries, they do not care at all about maintaining order and creating a harmonious system of the great reign.
      One has only to admit that Russia and the Horde are one and the same, as every single strangeness, illogicality, incomprehensibility disappears. Everything fits into a harmonious system: the "horde" is just the army of the Vladimir-Suzdal princes, who by force introduced one-man command in Russia. Since 1328, when Ivan Kalita took the sole power over Russia - and until the time of the wars with Mamai, the Tatar raids on Russia were NOT FIXED.
      More details: http://swordmaster.org/2008/02/04/zagadki_batyeva_pokhoda.html
      1. tomket
        tomket 31 May 2013 15: 08 New
        -1
        and you tie with Fomenko)))) by the way, remember the joke, where by logic the affiliation to homosexuals is proved?))))
      2. tomket
        tomket 31 May 2013 21: 31 New
        0
        By the way, who fixed it? Rosstat?)))))
  4. omsbon
    omsbon 30 May 2013 09: 11 New
    14
    Now, after more than seven centuries, we are unlikely to find new evidence of the Battle of the Ice, but the main thing is to strengthen the truth in the minds of enemies that:
    Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword! The Russian land will stand and stand on that!
  5. Valery-SPB
    Valery-SPB 30 May 2013 09: 33 New
    +1
    What event, tragic or dramatic, formed the basis for the unification of the Russian lands, we no longer know. It is clear that Alexander played some role. Perhaps, therefore, an attempt was made in the church chronicles to consolidate the name of the prince who had a hand in this. However, ! Late chronicles, 16th century, such as Simeonovskaya, refer us to the chronicle of the 13th century, to the "Tale of Life ..." One of the authors of a different story, not loved by the author of the article, said that it was over, the later historian knew better. Which chronicle to believe, the 13th century or the 16th, after 300 years and with fragments from the former? Then where did the Swedes come from in the Battle of the Neva, when the Romans are indicated in the story. Birger was not a Jarl. No "bishop" (bishop) was defeated in the battle. There were seven of them in Sweden, and in their chronicles they are all living and not going anywhere. And most of the army was laid not by the prince's squad, but by the angel of the Lord.
    At the end of the 17th century, clerk Andrei Lyzlov wrote the "Scythian history", pointing to the immigrants from the land of Egypt, the Mangoleans, who settled on the lands of the future of Russia, who became defenders (Cossacks?). From fragments of chronicles it is known that in the circulation of Slavic speech there were words from Sanskrit or Indo-European group of languages. Prince Vladimir is once referred to as "saar" (king). I believe that the word "tratar", translated as "defender", was also known. So they are the tratars-mangolei, defenders of the borders of the Russians. Referring to the Dorpat chronicles with their "green grass", the author questioned his statement at the beginning about any actions of the Livonian Order. Adding to the annals and "The Legend of Dovmont", about the deserter from Dorpat in the service of Pskov, it becomes obvious that there are ordinary civil strife in nearby lands (ours and theirs).
    Or maybe the image of Alexander was immortalized by the church because he brought peace to the Novgorod lands, after negotiations with the "Germans", in this connection, Novgorod became part of the Hanseatic League. The fact of such entry into the union, at the suggestion of the prince, denies the possibility of his previous showdown with the German orders.
  6. igordok
    igordok 30 May 2013 09: 45 New
    +5
    It is hard to imagine the closed masses of knightly cavalry on ice in April.

    Year to year is not necessary. For example, this year could have been cold and late spring. And those times are called the Small Ice Age.
    Voroniy Kamen settlement is located on the eastern shore of the Warm Lake. And in my humble opinion, the battle itself took place on the east bank. And when the knights rounded up and began to retreat across the lake, the ice cracked. And the fact that you can’t find iron, you won’t find it. That which has not been taken away lies at a depth of 30 meters under a layer of silt, two meters deep. There is a quicksand.
  7. avt
    avt 30 May 2013 09: 51 New
    +6
    The historical prince Alexander is a very uncomfortable figure, so the liberoid "historians" and "publicists" are barking at him, trying to refute the very fact of his actions over the years and to belittle his role in the history of the State. Well, as for the place of the battle request Well, this is not the first that they cannot find, Tsar Nicholas I also appointed the Kulikovo Field with the installation of a monument of the second category.
  8. rolik
    rolik 30 May 2013 10: 54 New
    +6
    Well, why are there always, so to speak, people who strive to smear all that glorious and great moments in the history of the Fatherland? This does not apply in any way to the author of this article. This applies to people who question the very fact of this battle. Why is this with a special buzz done with us. Maybe because Russia has always flocked to many individuals of various nationalities who do not consider it to be their first or second homeland, but simply a place to stay at a given point in space. Why do Americans consider the genocide of the indigenous population a great event in the history of their nation, if the criminal rabble with criminal manners on a global scale, can be called a nation. Why the Spaniards and the Portuguese do not repent for the forced drag into Christianity, and as a result of this, the mass extermination of the indigenous population of South America. Why the British do not fall to their knees and do not apologize to the Indians, for the executions and executions of the latter. Why Germany does not want, tearfully before us, to apologize for all centuries of military campaigns against us, the purpose of which was to take away our land.
    This is the main question. And only in our country they begin to beat themselves in the sunken chest and ask for forgiveness for the fact that we PROTECTED our primordially. They did not burn at the stake, did not cut out the camps of the indigenous inhabitants of Siberia and the north. I think, in many respects, everything depends on the policy of our authorities. We must instill pride in the accomplishments of our great-grandfathers, no matter how controversial they may seem to our "historians". We are the best, it should be hammered into heads from the kindergarten. And then we will definitely be the best in everything and will not make excuses, it is not clear to whom, for the deeds accomplished by our grandfathers and great-grandfathers.
    1. drongo
      drongo 30 May 2013 13: 52 New
      +3
      Well, why are there always, so to speak, people who strive to smear all that glorious and great moments in the history of the Fatherland?
      And this is because a little later we believed that both Napaleon and Hitler were the failed liberators, whose affairs the United States should continue with its helpers, of course, not without the participation of supporters from within. This, to some extent, they do, unfortunately. articles of various kinds appear, inciting ethnic hatred, which leads to a significant weakening of the country. Because of the glasses, I apologize, freaks, the once most powerful state in the world, the USSR, collapsed. And we, instead of learning the lessons of history, succumb to etc vacation, which causes me personally a double disappointment.
      1. rolik
        rolik 30 May 2013 14: 16 New
        +8
        Quote: drongo
        And this is because a little later we believed that both Napaleon and Hitler were the failed liberators, whose affairs the United States should continue with its helpers, of course, not without the participation of supporters from the inside.

        I received a Soviet education, a kindergarten, a school, and left to serve in the Soviet army. I believe that I received the best primary education, and the education that existed then in the world. Because there is nothing to compare, especially with the current realities of education and upbringing. Never considered either Napoleon or Hitler liberators. I always knew that they were invaders and came to my land to kill and rob, and from this postulate no academics, state programs and articles will curtail me. Why did we consider them liberators ??? I don’t think that in our country people think the same way, despite the 10th anniversary of brainwashing by the Yeltsin + mattress gop company. I agree that the story was greatly distorted by all kinds of deinterpretations from the blessed country of the Jews and they continue to distort it now publishing in their mass media all sorts of fabrications-shifters. This is in gratitude for the fact that our grandfathers pulled them out of the death camps. But this is easy to fix, only one generation has not fully grown, it has grown during the breaking of the consciousness of the nation. But steps to rectify the situation must be taken now. And this is being done, it is just starting to gain momentum. The main thing is that things have gone and you can not stop him. And it seems funny to me to become when I hear that the GDP and I will give Jews. DAM, he is simply, to put it mildly, not a very smart person. But that Jew is already too much))). So much blood is mixed in us that in each of us sits a particle of one or another ethnic group. The main thing is that the current government has begun to return historical self-awareness to our children, youth, young and fragile minds.
        1. wax
          wax 30 May 2013 17: 13 New
          +1

          Only Russian in the family,
          My great-grandfather - Samarin
          So if anyone got into me -
          And so is Tatar!

          Vysotsky
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 30 May 2013 23: 06 New
            +1
            Quote: Wax
            Vysotsky

            Vladimir Vysotsky was born on January 25, 1938, at 9 hours 40 minutes in Moscow in the maternity hospital No. 8 of the Dzerzhinsky district of Moscow on Third Meshchanskaya Street
            The poet's paternal grandfather, also Vladimir Semenovich Vysotsky (at birth Wolf Shliomovich) was born in 1889 in Brest (at that time Brest-Litovsk) in the family of a Russian language teacher.
            Grandmother Daria Alekseevna (at the birth of Deborah Evseevna Bronstein; 1891-1970) - nurse, cosmetologist. She loved her first grandson Volodya very much and in the last years of her life was a passionate fan of his songs
            1. The comment was deleted.
        2. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 30 May 2013 23: 03 New
          0
          Quote: rolik
          And it seems funny to me to become when I hear that the GDP and I will give Jews. DAM, he is simply, to put it mildly, not a very smart person. But that Jew is already too much))). So much blood is mixed in us that in each of us sits a particle of one or another ethnic group.


          Recent joint research by Russian, British and Estonian geneticists put a big and fat cross on the common Russophobic myth, which has been rooted in the minds of people for decades - they say, "scratch the Russian and you will definitely find a Tatar." The results of a large-scale experiment published in The American Journal of Human Genetics absolutely clearly say - "despite the widespread opinion about the strong Tatar and Mongol impurities in the blood of Russians, inherited from their ancestors back during the Tatar-Mongol invasion, the haplogroup of Turkic peoples and others "Asian ethnic groups almost left no trace on the population of the modern northwestern, central and southern regions."
          In this long-standing debate, one can safely put an end to and consider further discussions on this subject simply inappropriate.

          No influence on the so-called Russian genes "Mongol-Tatar yoke" - did not. The Russians did not have any admixture of “Horde blood”.

          Moreover, geneticists, summing up their research, declare that the genotypes of Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians are almost completely identical, proving that we were and remain one people: “... the genetic variations of the Y chromosome of the inhabitants of the central and southern regions of Ancient Russia turned out to be almost identical to those of the "Slavic brothers" - Ukrainians and Belarusians. "
          By examining the materials of the remains from the oldest burials, scientists found that "Slavic tribes mastered these lands (Central and Southern Russia) long before the mass resettlement of the main part of the ancient Russians on them in the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries." That is, the lands of Central and Southern Russia were settled by Russians (Rusichs) already, at least in the first centuries of our era (according to PX). Even earlier.

          This makes it possible to debunk yet another Russophobic myth - that Moscow and its surrounding regions were supposedly inhabited from time immemorial by Finno-Ugric tribes and the Russians there are “newcomers”. As genetics proved, the ancestors of the Russian people are not aliens, but completely autochthonous inhabitants of Central Russia, where the Rus have lived since time immemorial. “Despite the fact that these lands were inhabited even before the last glaciation of our planet about 20 thousand years ago, there is no evidence directly indicating the presence of any“ original ”nationalities living in this territory,” the report says. That is, there is no evidence that any other tribes lived on our lands before us, which we supposedly ousted or assimilated.
    2. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 May 2013 13: 56 New
      +4
      Quote: rolik
      We are the best, it should drive into our heads from the kindergarten. And then we will definitely be the best in everything and will not make excuses, it is not clear to whom, for the deeds done by our grandfathers and great-grandfathers.

      Gold words!!! good good good And this should be done not only by parents with teachers and educators, but also by the state as a whole, represented by the president, government and the State Duma. Mass information propaganda should also be carried out in the media and on all TV channels.
    3. Ghenxnumx
      Ghenxnumx 30 May 2013 17: 55 New
      0
      Quote: rolik
      Why Germany does not want, tearfully before us, to apologize for all centuries of military campaigns against us, the purpose of which was to take away our land.

      So they selected - Prussia is a part of Western Russia, was inhabited by Bodriks, later Germanized, although until now one can find words with Russian roots in German. Yes, and Galicia, the former Galician principality was Catholicized and then polished.
    4. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 30 May 2013 22: 55 New
      0
      Quote: rolik
      Why why why
      Yes, because it is not RUSSIAN and RUSSIA who asks for forgiveness, but the Jews in power, in the hope of humiliating them even more with all these forgiveness, for everything, everything, everything that has happened in the world, and is now hammered from kindergarten and school, "They hit on one cheek , substitute another "is that how they educate patriots who are ready to repulse any encroaching ......................
    5. Alex
      Alex 19 August 2013 11: 38 New
      +5
      Absolutely agree! Add here also that according to the British version of Hitler they won, the Americans generally think that Germany and Japan were defeated solely by their efforts, and the Germans modestly hint at the exceptional stupidity of their ersatz commander-in-chief. And only we, with maniacal persistence, talk about "light and old tanks", "plywood planes", "mediocre generals", "ferocious foreign detachments" ... I want a hygiene package after such "research".
  9. AK-47
    AK-47 30 May 2013 11: 08 New
    +1
    In the Novgorod First Announcement it is reported: “And the pond of Chyudi was best, and Nѣmets was 400, and 50 with the hands of a yasha and brought to Novgorod”
    The Russians drove them on the ice for another seven miles to the western shore of Lake Peipsi. 400 knights were destroyed and 50 captured. Some Livonians drowned in the lake. The Russian cavalry escaped from the encirclement, completing their rout.

    I wish it were true.
  10. alebor
    alebor 30 May 2013 11: 09 New
    +1
    If you read the medieval history of Novgorod and Pskov, you can see that military clashes with the Livonians and Swedes took place regularly. Once every few years, a more or less major war broke out, or at least a small border skirmish with the destruction of enemy territory. But for some reason, out of hundreds of wars with the Livonians and Swedes, most people know only two: the Neva and Chud battles. I think this is due to the personality of the commander-in-chief - Prince Alexander Nevsky. It is the immense popularity of the saint, noble prince canonized by the church that explains the popularity and widespread fame of his deeds. Much less is known about similar wars won by other, less popular princes. A "promoted" name, or, as they say in a foreign language, "brand" means a lot. It is no coincidence that modern filmmakers are trying to invite "stars" to the main roles - this significantly increases public interest in the film. Of course, all this does not in the least detract from the remarkable role of Alexander Nevsky in Russian history, but his "stardom" somewhat overshadows other, also very important and interesting historical characters who lived in that era.
  11. Igarr
    Igarr 30 May 2013 12: 51 New
    +5
    As you will see this - ".. should not read Fomenko-Nosovsky or .." - I just want to cry.
    Or burp.
    And what was the New Chronology given to everyone so that it cannot even be read.
    Mine Kampf - you can, Hammer of the Witches - you can, Lolita - you can. Everything is possible - but Nosovsky-Fomenko is impossible.
    "..when would you know
    from what rubbish
    poems grow, not knowing shame .. "
    The author has a good idea - who is Alexander Nevsky in the presentation of financial and social sciences?
    It seems not.
    Then why am I reading the AUTHOR, and reading Fina - does he forbid me?
    1. AK-47
      AK-47 30 May 2013 14: 56 New
      -3
      Quote: Igarr
      And what has the New Chronology been given to everyone so that it’s impossible to even read it ... and to read FiNa - does it forbid me?

      Well, it’s not completely forbidden, but draws attention to:
      “New chronology” is a pseudoscientific theory of a radical revision of history, created by a group led by mathematician A. T. Fomenko, academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
      The "new chronology" was rejected by the scientific community as contrary to established facts, and its methods and hypotheses were refuted. In particular, historians, archaeologists, linguists, mathematicians, physicists, astronomers, and representatives of other sciences opposed it.
      1. rus9875
        rus9875 30 May 2013 16: 01 New
        0
        Fomenko is not an academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, he is an academician of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences The names are similar but there is a big difference - the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences is the public organization that makes everyone who wants it, regardless of education, availability of scientific work and their quality, for example, the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences is Grabovsky (This is the one that promised to resurrect the dead in Beslan children), Azhazha (hunter of green men, chupacabra and other evil spirits) Petrik (he and Gryzlov invented a nanofilter for water purification under which they saw a bunch of budget dough and also a graph n), and even a bunch of similar pseudo-scientific nemeryannom rabble Honorary Academical there are Mikhail Gorbachev and Ramzan Kadyrov So judge for yourself should believe academicians of the Academy
        1. wax
          wax 30 May 2013 17: 35 New
          +3
          Fomenko A.T. elected a full member of the Russian Academy of Sciences (academician) in 1994 for the Department of Mathematics. Members of the RAS see on the website of the RAS
          http://www.ras.ru/members/personalstaff/fullmembers.aspx?mem=21
          He is also a member of the academicians of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, but this, as you correctly write, is a completely different academy, of which there are hundreds.
          Your noble fervor for the water A.T. Fomenko has no basis. By the way, even Lomonosov spoke out about the history of Russia, which was written by Western scholars who did not even speak Russian - they translated the annals into it.
      2. wax
        wax 30 May 2013 17: 46 New
        -1
        And for doubting the "established" facts ...?
        But
        Question everything.
        R. Descartes, also a stupid person.
        1. Alex
          Alex 19 August 2013 11: 56 New
          +4
          "I do not invent theories" - I. Newton, genius.

          As for reasonable doubts, they are the engine of science. But this in no way applies to pseudo-scientific nonsense such as "cold thermonuclear fusion", UFOs, space rockets of the Third Reich and New Chronology.

          I have one friend, an amateur historian, who generally seriously demonstrates that Veliky Novgorod is Belorussian Novogrudok (the first capital of Mindovga), and Kiev did not exist before Yaroslav. And this also needs to be taken seriously and read more than once ?!
      3. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 30 May 2013 23: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: AK-47
        The "new chronology" was rejected by the scientific community as contrary to established facts, and its methods and hypotheses were refuted. In particular, historians, archaeologists, linguists, mathematicians, physicists, astronomers, and representatives of other sciences opposed it.

        those who may suffer financially from the activities of the financial and financial services, how many years they fooled people (primarily students and schoolchildren), and here on ............. and it seems too early to remember, but it turns out that comrades were going in the wrong direction, therefore
        1. tomket
          tomket 31 May 2013 21: 34 New
          0
          excuse me, and who is holding on to the feeders ??? Please show me that feeder, so I will gladly fall for it)))) Do you like the salaries of all our scientists? just Fomenko and found a feeder in the form of your pockets)))))
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 31 May 2013 23: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: tomket
            excuse me, who is holding on to the feeders ??? Please show me that feeder, so I will gladly fall for it)))) Do you like the salaries of all our scientists?

            salaries, dachas, apartments, special services, all this is more than that of a simple teacher who is forced to teach children for a penny the rubbish they come up with every year in new history textbooks. You want it in turn because the thinking and historical assessment of events is the same with the official "party line "and the
            1. Igarr
              Igarr 1 June 2013 17: 05 New
              +1
              Sasha ... well, Sasha ...
              how is it possible ... intolerant .. not juvenile ... not typical ... hand a penny to teach children the rubbish that they come up with every year in new history textbooks .. "

              About two years ago ... the whole DAM .. said - but cho, give a tooth, the exam in the stream ...
              Judging by the fact that this ... pederast is not big ... broadcasts from the screens - nothing has changed.
              ..
              Damn .. until 2016 ... for three whole years ....
              Who is to blame ... - we know!
              What to do -... unclear ..
            2. Alex
              Alex 19 August 2013 12: 02 New
              +5
              This New Chronology is a striking example of such nonsense.
        2. Alex
          Alex 19 August 2013 12: 01 New
          +4
          Yeah, Fleishman and Pons, too, in the mid-80's, the whole world was fooled by the overthrow of classical physics with its own cold fusion. And in fact, everything turned into a grandiose hoax, not even a bona fide delusion or an unaccounted for effect. But there were laboratories and institutes, even solid ones, which confirmed this effect. True, then had to launder. A familiar situation, isn't it ...
  12. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 30 May 2013 12: 52 New
    +4
    Interestingly, what, armor and weapons in those days were made of stainless steel?
  13. Lenhard
    Lenhard 30 May 2013 14: 14 New
    +2
    In my opinion, the article is contrived
  14. Vtel
    Vtel 30 May 2013 16: 05 New
    +1
    Alexander Nevsky - the name of Russia, Orthodox Holy Prince Warrior of Christ, not like the current tribe at the top. Nemchuk on Lake Wonderland raked on the case and specifically.
    "Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword."
    "We need to strengthen the defense in the West, and look for friends in the East."
    "God is not in power, but in truth."
  15. wax
    wax 30 May 2013 18: 07 New
    +2
    In order to have at least some idea of ​​national military history, one must not read Fomenko-Nosovsky or conspiracy theories. It is necessary to read books like the Reader on Russian Military History. This is an important initial reading to get the base. It is here - the documents, primary sources, on the basis of which you yourself can draw further conclusions.

    What does this statement have to do with the subject of the Battle of the Ice?
    Have you not noticed that a person capable of mathematics is sophisticated in all the sciences in nature?
    Plato

    The first articles on historical topics were published in the Commentaries of the Academy T.-Z. Bayer, a prominent scientist who was quite proficient in the scientific methods of his time. However, complete ignorance of the Russian language limited the range of sources available to him; as a result of this article, Bayer was not genuine research on the history of Russia. Somewhat later G.-F. Miller also began to study Russian history, but the essays on the history of Kievan Rus, published by him in the first volumes of Sammlung Russischer Geschichte, indicate that he, like Bayer, did not speak Russian at that time. The texts of the annals were translated by translators of the Academy of Sciences, among them was I.-V. A pause, in some cases making an inaccuracy in his translations. As a result of this, Miller has a number of errors that confused the questions of the initial period of Russian history.

    From the point of view of the scientific approach to materials and historical conclusions, “Ancient Russian History” by Lomonosov stands immeasurably higher than “Synopsis,” articles by Bayer and Miller.
    This work is now known as "Anti-Norman Theory"
    The historical views of Lomonosov were formed in a sharp struggle against Norman theory, which denied the independent development of the Russian people.
  16. Sour
    Sour 30 May 2013 19: 08 New
    0
    The site of the battle is still unclear. The fact that the battle took place on the ice, as it were, follows from Russian sources: "the prince climbed onto the lake," and "the Germans and the Chud (ie, Estonians) went to them."
    In the rhymed German annals about the place of the battle there is nothing, only its course is described:
    “Then Prince Alexander and many other Russians from Suzdal set out with him.
    They had innumerable bows, a lot of beautiful armor.
    Their banners were rich, their helmets radiated light.
    So they went to the land of the knight brothers strong in the army.
    The Germans began a battle with them. The Russians had many riflemen who courageously took the first onslaught [being] in front of the prince's squad.
    It was visible how a detachment of brothers-knights defeated the shooters; there the sound of swords was heard, and it was visible how helmets were cut.
    On both sides, the dead fell to the ground.
    Those who were in the army of the knight brothers were surrounded.
    The knight brothers fought hard enough, but they were overpowered there. "

    The Russian source says shorter: "and byst here the slaughter is great for the Germans and chudi ..."
  17. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 30 May 2013 19: 36 New
    +3
    Soon Poltava, Stalingrad and the storming of the Reichstag will be questioned. The Battle on the Ice, like a great many victories of our army over foreign invaders, is a symbol of our country. Therefore, we will leave any intimate details to narrow specialist historians. Although, as it seems to me, all these "revelations" and "refutations" are sheer conjuncture, which has one goal - the destruction of our self-identity and instilling in people's minds the idea of ​​the worthlessness of our history. And a people without history has no future.
    1. Denis
      Denis 31 May 2013 01: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: lewerlin53rus
      Stalingrad
      Oh!
      here the canadian recalled that they sailed to Italy to make a turning point in the war and destroy adik
      The truth was that in the summer of 1944
    2. Denis
      Denis 31 May 2013 01: 26 New
      +1
      That was on our website, the game's screen saver
      Game by game, but what about the story?
      Take a closer look
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 31 May 2013 18: 46 New
        0
        What is there to look closely?
        Graphics, it’s graphics everywhere. Handsomely.
        Nothing to do with life.
        Where did you see the portholes in three rows? On a warship?
        Yes, and not battened down "in combat" - in battle?
        Where did you see the destroyer carrying double turret mounts of a three-gun composition?
        To suppose is ridiculous. And that one - a shortened tank !!!
        And the move, at least 14 knots. In battle, in the squadron, on maneuvering. Because to the right, the typical destroyer went to the left U-turn. Yes, and the move .. strange, with a bluff this is not a ship, but Formula 1, on acceleration.
        Tapestries ...
        this is when chain mail to knights was drawn with holes in the canvas.
        WOT - in its purest form.
        Beautiful ....
        1. Denis
          Denis 2 June 2013 20: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: Igarr
          Nothing to do with life
          I didn’t know much about destroyers
          But there is an attack on them Zhapanavskih aircraft!
          Was it like that?
          1. Alex
            Alex 19 August 2013 12: 08 New
            +4
            Not. There were never battleship dreadnought at the Pacific Fleet.
  18. Horde
    Horde 30 May 2013 19: 57 New
    +4
    After reading this uncomplicated article retelling from a history textbook, one gets the impression that the whole quintessence of the content is expressed in the words “do not read Fomenko.” TIs are getting old and lose their former persuasiveness and assertiveness.
    It would not be bad to understand how this prince appeared in our history, what chronicles are there, how they were found, by whom were they investigated? The questions are not idle, after all, THE HISTORIANS ARE LIES, is already clear. And who first opened our chronicle or the Germans who wrote history to us, it will be clear how truthfully the facts of history are presented. For example, the author mentioned the Simeon Chronicle or the Rhymed Chronicle, otherwise it usually turns out from Tishnikov that the chronicle for five hundred years, somewhere, lay, and then it is found in the 18th century and with a "feeling of great reverence" they investigate and give the people his story about the vocation of the Vikings about the campaigns of Prince Igor, about the Tatar-Mongol yoke and about many other things that took the "writers" of such chronicles into their heads.
    For example, the city of Dorpat is a modern small Estonian town of Tartu now (100 thousand people). It turns out that it had a thousand-year history, earlier in the Middle Ages it was a completely Russian city of YURIEV. And if you ask how it happened that at the end of the 17th century KARLA 11 was written in Russian, then you begin to understand that Ivan Vasilyevich the Terrible was right when he wrote to the SWEISK KING Magnus - "it is not for you the artful one to tell me the ruler of the (European) lands to whom what to give, to whom I want to and I favor"
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 31 May 2013 22: 00 New
      +2
      Come on, worry ...
      it is clear that .. "... do not throw beads before ......, for they will not appreciate .."
      The famous Anna Yaroslavna, queen of France, the founder of the European dynasty ... her sister, Anastasia, the wife of Harald ...
      whoever needs it, they find everything,
      to whom ... he presses eggs - point blank they don’t recognize ...
      Law, damn it, to counteract the distortion of history ....
    2. tomket
      tomket 31 May 2013 22: 35 New
      -1
      that historians are lying so far only to you, well, to other adherents.
      1. Horde
        Horde 1 June 2013 09: 24 New
        +1

        What is it called? if the language does not turn to say I will answer for you Fake !!!
        This is the royal letter of Ivan the Terrible.
        And maybe you heard about the disputes between Lomonosov and Miller? about the origin of the Russian state and that Lomonosov was imprisoned, and other Russian scientists were even executed with the wording "disrespect for Germany"
        By the way, Lomonosov’s so-called works on history were analyzed by the method of invariant comparison, it turned out that these works were not written by Lomonosov, but by Miller. To put it mildly, Miller is the father of Russian history just a dirty falsifier, I’ll even say a more dirty German falsifier.
        1. Igarr
          Igarr 1 June 2013 16: 09 New
          +3
          Bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin ... Yes DO NOT LIE Historians !!!!
          How to at least convey a thought ...
          Once the theory was recognized ... 5 thousand years of history - that is. there the Ebibtians built something, the Sumerians erected clay towers there, some Dorians ran into the Achaeans ...
          Romulus overpowered Rem after sucking on one boobs ...
          .
          Really ... people who are accustomed to thinking independently are not obvious ... the thought is that all this scenario.!!!
          it all looks too smooth and flawless .. for it to be - TRUE.
          ..
          Reality is much ... mundane ... much more primitive,
          usually consists in - what to eat now! ??, and what can be left ... an hour later?
          Because in half an hour you will be pierced with a rusty piece of iron ... and in an hour you will become completely useless.
          .
          As my opinion .... I do not impose anyone ....
          the whole WORLD history of Europe ... revolved around one such river ...
          This river can even be called a river ... who is not in the scrap.
          Volga - this river is called.
          The ancient names are Ra .... Itil ... Don ... Volkhov ... (the last two - I do not insist ..).
          Explain why? I will explain6
          Because only from the Volga basin could it be reached - to the North, West, South - by default.
          The complexity was only with the East - meaning - Siberia, Altai ... etc.
          ..
          And so ... the Caspian Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Black Sea, White, Barents, Atlantic, Middle-earth, Indian Ocean - through three caravan crossings ...
          .
          They talk about the Great Roman Empire .... Yes, to hell who gave up - a semi-enclave - a boot - Apennines ???
          No ship forests, no ore deposits, no fair sea routes ....
          Some shepherds in the Sabine mountains, fucking their goats.
          And wound, respectively, a stick from a goat's vagina ... a spirochete, now called. To your ... ROMAN ... member.
          ..
          And here - over one and a half thousand blast furnaces ... primitive, but emitting iron - on the territory of the Oryol, Bryansk, and Belarus.
          Forests and, accordingly, charcoal - by the shaft. Kursk magnetic anomaly - and then it was, no?
          The entire transport network - through the Oka, Desna, Dnieper - is at hand.
          .
          Not...
          not...
          we were stupid and illiterate ...
          because ... the Latins .. better .. star sick ... they know how.
          1. Igarr
            Igarr 1 June 2013 22: 19 New
            +3
            I decided to return .. and prove:
            Now, in our time, with us, live - WE SEE - how history is being rewritten ..
            it turns out that the Waffen-SS legionaries (on the one hand, these are just warriors, on the other - ENEMIES) - become - people of BASIC citizenship.
            We all - LIVE - see how HISTORY is being written ... before our eyes.
            ..
            We are protesting. Sometimes. Even, it happens on the "clave" tarakhtim.
            Is something changing?
            ..
            Why then, a priori, we believe - in antiquity it was - BETTER ?????
            It was exactly - ALSO, as now.
            .
            We PEOPLE are changing very slowly.
            It is very good. For us. Of people.
            Because, butterflies - live - ONE day.
          2. tomket
            tomket 2 June 2013 00: 09 New
            -1
            from that I go out and lycify around myself, there is the Temple of Antique on the right, the Colosseum on the left, stupidly apart the Terem white imperial towers, and then the section field with broken spears and chain mail and rusted shields ... even I don’t see all this, neither around the Don nor around the Volga
            1. Igarr
              Igarr 3 June 2013 10: 41 New
              -1
              And it’s worth recalling
              as in the topic of the Kulikovo field - we chewed for a long, tedious and thoroughly - they say, they collected all the glands, including broken arrows and streets.
              It is worth recalling that the forum already had an idea - the people on the territory of Russia are extremely practical, will not do too much.
              Where to get a stone for construction? While forests - get rid of the surplus. Yes, and the forest .. not a mountain bush, as in the Alps, Apennines.
              .
              As for the Don and the Volga. And these famous tunnels in the Saratov region? I was not there myself, so I have to take my word for it. And the pyramids in the Crimea? Pyramids on the Kola Peninsula?
              You can collect a lot. But, a strange thing is dancing out - who had to ADVERTISE - those great ones, worked out by the slaves of Rome. Brilliant, overpowering half the world.
              Built yes. Colosseum built, aqueducts. Question - WHEN?
              And not only about carbon analysis and the rest of paleochronology. Gold chains, supposedly 300 million tons ago, do not leave stone upon stone from the accuracy of all these methods.
              While Archbishop Mavro Orbini - no one pulled the language.
              1. Alex
                Alex 19 August 2013 12: 27 New
                +4
                I wonder how you can measure the age of gold by radiocarbon? Element transmutation was never found (accelerators are not counted). And this with an accuracy of 45-50 thousand years? And how, in general, can the age be determined by radioisotope methods for an element that does not have enough radioactive isotopes suitable for this method of analysis? (Natural gold consists of one stable isotope Au-197, the rest "live" from microseconds to days and do not occur in nature). So "separate the wheat from the chaff" and never doubt science: Nature writes its laws, not parliaments.
              2. Corneli
                Corneli 19 August 2013 13: 13 New
                0
                Quote: Igarr
                You can collect a lot. But, a strange thing is dancing out - who had to ADVERTISE - those great ones, worked out by the slaves of Rome. Brilliant, overpowering half the world.
                Built yes. Colosseum built, aqueducts. Question - WHEN?

                Let me guess the 16-19th century? Rich uncles from Europe arranged total construction throughout Europe and the Mediterranean (including on the territory of their hostile Muslim states laughing ) of absolutely non-functional semi-valleys of cyclopean scales. And all this is only in order to convince the Russians of their antiquity hundreds of years later (and instead of presenting the antiquity of their own peoples - the French, Germans, Spaniards, British - these fools came up with some kind of left-wing Romans and Greeks (). It is curious that even in the 19th century, such bandura (the same collision) cannot be built just like that. That is, huge resources had to be involved (thousands of people, infrastructure for construction, huge construction sites about the cost, I’m keeping quiet), and none of these "construction projects of the century "I did not notice! For reference, St. Peter's Cathedral in Rome (similar in scale) has been under construction for over 60 years! The best architects of Italy, an unmeasured number of workers, using all the resources of the Catholic Church. And having suffered with the construction of the MAIN Catholic church, they (well, or xs who are in Rome) began, in secret !!!, to build a pagan Pantheon (no smaller in size). Why?).
                In general, once again I smile at the "faith" of the "new historians" in the alleged hoax, and only with the aim of gnawing Russia, in what current noodles and nonsense some are ready to believe.
  19. s1н7т
    s1н7т 30 May 2013 20: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: lewerlin53rus
    The massacre of ice as a great many victories of our army over foreign invaders is a symbol of our country.

    I don’t want the symbols of our country to be a crap written by adherents of a religion born in Judea, but I agree with the rest!
  20. saved
    saved 30 May 2013 21: 00 New
    +3
    In 1237, a terrible disaster struck Russia from the east - the Mongol-Tatar invasion. In 1242, on April 11, according to the Gregorian calendar, one of the most famous battles in Russian military history took place - the famous Battle of the Ice. Interesting data is given by historians. However, how could Alexander have assembled a heavily armed army, being under the yoke of the Horde. It seems to me that the conclusion is obvious, there were no Hordes. Therefore, the Teutons were simply defeated and most likely not on ice, therefore there is no evidence of drowned men. It was just a battle by the lake, like the battle of Borodino. The winners naturally took the weapon.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. vlad1
    vlad1 30 May 2013 22: 30 New
    0
    Was there a victory? It was. And under whose leadership it was won not so important. It is important in my opinion that they pressed on the wort and defended their land and independence.
  23. reichsmarshal
    reichsmarshal 30 May 2013 22: 50 New
    -5
    The article is a typical retelling of pseudo-patriotic myths and the 1938 movie. In reality, the Teutons on Lake Peipsi were approx. 500-600 horsemen and 1,5-2 thousand foot bollards. The 6-strong militia from Livonia did not enter the battle at all and safely drapanul, leaving the camp (and what do you want from the banal Chukhona robbers-beggars who went on a campaign because there is nothing to eat in Derpt, since everything went to tithe for the bishop). Against this, Alexander had 2 thousand horsemen (squad) and 10 thousand foot soldiers (also militias). The ratio is one Hans for six Novgorodians. But Alexander was afraid to lead the squad for a fair fight: he set up the militia under the first blow (of which more than half were killed), and he attacked with the squad only when the knights drown in the blood of our militias. According to the chivalrous concepts of that time, it’s like hiding behind a human shield from children and the elderly! It should be noted that the Germans did not plan any campaign to Novgorod: all the stories about this were composed during the time of Ivan the Terrible. They waited for the attack of Alexander on Pskov (which, incidentally, surrendered by himself, without any betrayal of the mythical posadnik, they reiterated) and decided to forestall events. It turned out to be unsuccessful.
    1. Horde
      Horde 31 May 2013 07: 39 New
      0
      Quote: reichsmarshal
      The article is a typical retelling of pseudo-patriotic myths and the 1938 movie. In reality, the Teutons on Lake Peipsi were approx. 500-600 horsemen and 1,5-2 thousand foot bollards. The 6-strong militia from Livonia did not enter the battle at all and safely drapanul, leaving the camp (and what do you want from the banal Chukhona robbers-beggars who went on a campaign because there is nothing to eat in Derpt, since everything went to tithe for the bishop). Against this, Alexander had 2 thousand horsemen (squad) and 10 thousand foot soldiers (also militias). The ratio is one Hans for six Novgorodians. But Alexander was afraid to lead the squad for a fair fight: he set up the militia under the first blow (of which more than half were killed), and he attacked with the squad only when the knights drown in the blood of our militias. According to the chivalrous concepts of that time, it’s like hiding behind a human shield from children and the elderly! It should be noted that the Germans did not plan any campaign to Novgorod: all the stories about this were composed during the time of Ivan the Terrible. They waited for the attack of Alexander on Pskov (which, incidentally, surrendered by himself, without any betrayal of the mythical posadnik, they reiterated) and decided to forestall events. It turned out to be unsuccessful.


      figured it out myself?
      1. reichsmarshal
        reichsmarshal 1 June 2013 22: 02 New
        -2
        Facts, nothing more. The entire modern interpretation of the battle on ice is associated with the state mythology of the era of Ivan the Terrible and the Livonian War. It was Alexander's actions that made the Teutonic attack inevitable. He went to an alliance with the Mongols not by force, but voluntarily; He called Batu Khan the second father, with his son Sartak they were great friends. His current canonization and heroization from the mouth of the ROC does not surprise me: the ROC, in fact, only thanks to the Mongols became a national organization and welcomed what was later called the "yoke."
    2. reichsmarshal
      reichsmarshal 2 June 2013 21: 50 New
      -1
      As always: minus anonymously, but there is nothing to argue. Which is not surprising: free-standing people protect the homeland, and lackeys - only the lord!
  24. Romario_Omsk
    Romario_Omsk 31 May 2013 10: 03 New
    0
    Quote: rolik
    The main thing is that the current government has begun to return historical self-awareness to our children, youth, young and fragile minds.

    gold words...
  25. radio operator
    radio operator 31 May 2013 14: 13 New
    +1
    The vaunted elite of the Crusaders rained in full.
    As in 1812, so in 1945.
    And it will always be so.
    1. reichsmarshal
      reichsmarshal 1 June 2013 22: 09 New
      -2
      By the time of the Battle of the Ice, the Northern Crusades had already ended. The offensive of the knights, undertaken by the way AT THE DIRECT REQUEST of Pskov, was associated with the fear of German Derpt and Andreas von Velven that Alexander would draw both Novgorod and Pskov into the orbit of his pro-Horde policy, which was a threat not to the Order, but to the whole of Europe. But that's all! The crusaders "rallied" only because in Europe it was so accepted that the WARRIORS are fighting! And Alexander threw the militia against the knights, not thinking how many of them would be in battle. So making him a hero of Russia is criminal in front of our people.
  26. i.xxx-1971
    i.xxx-1971 31 May 2013 21: 32 New
    -1
    Nosovsky and Fomenko put forward a hypothesis, reasoned and logical. The author of the article filled the oil with oil and put forward the slogan. Very informative. A true democratic historian.
    1. Alex
      Alex 19 August 2013 12: 32 New
      +4
      Fomenko and Nosovsky did not put forward anything, since their initial principles were, to put it mildly, not entirely scientific, and the whole theory, as usual, was a continuous fit to the previously known results. However, the general theoretician-general Douet also wrote his works.