Military Review

Something about the economy of the Soviet cosmos

50

20 years ago, in the days of rampant restructuring and new thinking, the point of view was very popular that space programs are devastating for the country and do not bring any economic effect. It was because of space that an ordinary citizen could not enjoy the beauty of a ferry in a store of fifty varieties of sausage with twenty beers.


I remember well how being a guest in Moscow in 1990, I read the program of a certain B. Yeltsin, one of the points of which was (I quote from memory) “a complete stop of all space programs on 5-7 years”.

But is it? Can it be better to leave emotions aside and look at the facts and figures?

So how much did the space program cost the Soviet Union and what was the return (or profit) from it for the national economy?

I once wrote out the brochures of the society "Knowledge" "New in life, science, technology." There was a series about the space program "Astronautics, Astronomy". Most of course were lost over time, but something still remained.

So, in 1990, in issue No. 4 under the significant name "Where is the Soviet cosmonautics going?" cited data on the economy of the Soviet space.

So what is debit credit?

In the 1989 fiscal year, 6.9 billion rubles were allocated to space programs in our country, including for national economic and scientific, as well as defense purposes - 1.7 and 3.9 billion rubles. respectively. In 1.3 billion rubles. doing work on the "Buran". From these figures it is clear that the specific consumption per capita of the country - 24.6 rubles per year

These figures speak for themselves: it is clear that the multibillion-dollar spending on peaceful space, about which we have begun to write, is nothing more than a myth - they make up only 0.26% in the national income of the country. For comparison, we note that this value is 10 times less than the expenses of the Ministry of Water Resources alone in the same year and 5 times less than the assistance that the Soviet Union provides to other countries free of charge.

To go nuts. It turns out that with the money allocated to the monkeys in exchange for their promises to build socialism on individual palm trees “free aid”, it was possible to execute another 4 space program!

24 ruble per year. 2 ruble per month. Truly, nev..beennoe ruin poor citizens!

For reference. The expenditure part of the USSR budget for 1989 a year amounted to 465.1 billion rubles.

And here is something else about the latest Energy-Buran system at the time.

So, in 1989, the Soviet press finally published reports of work on the creation of a heavy H-1 rocket. If these works, for which about 2.5 billion rubles were spent, were not a willful decision in 1974, at the final testing stage would have been terminated, then today's Energia launch vehicle would not have to start from scratch.

The heads of the ministry published in the mass press the costs associated with the development of Energia-Buran. 16 billion was invested in the creation of the system. over 14 years. The cost of the design of the launch vehicle Energia and the orbital spacecraft Buran during the first launch, respectively, of 210 and 140 mln. Rub.

And something else.

Figures are published: the costs of the expedition of A. Serebrov and A. Viktorenko with the duration of 6 months amounted to 90 mln. Rub. This means that the cost of the flight of the Mir station during 4 years was at least 360 million, and the cost of its development and experimental equipment is not taken into account.

I will add. The construction of the future of Baikonur in the middle of 50-s was allocated 500 million rubles. (The budget of the USSR in 1960 amounted to 77.2 billion rubles).

What about the payback of a space program? Such data are also given.

For example, in 1988, income from the implementation of these programs generated an income of about 2 billion rubles. It is important to emphasize in which areas of national space research a profit has been made.

According to the Ministry of Communications, the economic effect of the operation of Orbit, Ekran and Moscow satellite communication systems in 1988 was 540 million rubles. Satellite meteorological systems make it possible to reduce the damage caused by natural phenomena by approximately 500 - 700 mln. Rub. in year. Comprehensive studies of natural resources from space give the economic effect of 350 mln. Rub. annually. According to the estimates of Glavkosmos of the USSR, in the near future this value will increase to 1 billion rubles. Space images allow, for example, improving the quality of geological surveys, facilitating the search for new mineral deposits and reducing the cost of regional exploration for 15 - 20%.

Space mapping provides the opportunity to optimally choose the most economical and environmentally friendly options for civil and industrial construction projects. At the same time, this allows 2 - 3 to reduce the cost of field surveys. Estimated at 1 rub. the cost of space images get 5 rubles. arrived.

The national program for creating space technology for scientific and national economic purposes was published in an extremely concise statement only in a special advertising brochure "USSR in space. 2005 year", commissioned by Glavkosmos, as well as in some newspapers (for example, in the Red Star for 23 and 25 August 1989 g.). The cost of this program for three five-year plans is 40 billion rubles. Neither the Supreme Council nor its commissions have yet considered this program.

In 1988, the revenues received from the peaceful budget of the space program for the first time exceeded their expenditures (recall figures: 2 and 1.7 billion rubles, respectively).

So, it turns out, cosmonautics was even very profitable! Yes, it became so not immediately, but after 30 years after the launch of the first satellite. But forgive me, in order for something to start making a profit, first you have to invest expenses in this very thing. And by the way, the cost of capital construction also does not pay off in one decade.

But what was planned to be done in the next 10 years, by the 2000 year.

In the Soviet Union in the thirteenth and fourteenth five-year plans in this direction is expected to perform a large amount of work. Space systems for economic purposes with improved technical characteristics will be put into operation. We are talking about promising connected satellites "Granit", "Helikon", "Informer". With 1992, it is supposed to provide with the help of satellites the transmission of television programs throughout the country. Direct television satellites for home receivers will start functioning. In the next two five-year periods, it is assumed that satellite communication systems will provide revenue for 4.1 and 5.6 billion. respectively.

New geodetic satellites are being prepared for launch intended for high-precision global and regional networks and for determining the parameters of the Earth's gravitational field. In the future, it is intended to ensure the accuracy of determining the coordinates in tens of centimeters. Work will continue on space mapping.

It is planned to put into operation prospective navigation satellites of the Glonass system, which will include 24 satellites located in three 7 orbital planes - 8 satellites each (some of the satellites are redundant). This system will ensure the accuracy of determining the coordinates of vehicles up to meters and speeds up to centimeters per second. Work is underway to create a more sophisticated search system and the Nadezhda-M fear. Prospective navigation satellites will give the economic effect of 0.8 and 3.8 billion rubles. in the thirteenth and fourteenth five-year periods, respectively.

It is planned to launch new meteorological satellites in the geostationary orbit Electron, equipped with television equipment operating in the visible and infrared spectral regions. This equipment will allow to determine the global distribution of clouds on the illuminated and shadow side of the planet, the speed and direction of the winds at two or three levels of the atmosphere. It is estimated that 1991 - 1995's. Meteorological and environmental satellites will provide income for 5.8 billion rubles, and for 1996 - 2000. - 9.6 billion

New satellites will be introduced to study the Earth’s natural resources (Resource, Ocean, etc.). They are associated with obtaining practical recommendations for geology, agriculture, forestry, water and fisheries, for land reclamation, oceanography, urban planning. It is expected that the use of these systems in the national economy will give 4,8 and 5,8 billion rubles in the thirteenth and fourteenth five-year plans.

Thus, in the sum of 10 years (from 1991 to 2000), the listed national economic research directions of space research will bring in about 42 billion rubles. Note that this figure does not include the profit that space mapping will provide - the authors did not have the relevant data.

I think that after this you can safely spit in the face to all the criminals about the "ruinous and unnecessary space program of the USSR" and send them on a trip in three coordinates (X, Y, but what instead of Z - guess yourself, not small).

ZY I read the brochure now, and I can't calm down. If it was planned for 2000 year, what could be today?
Author:
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http://grey-croco.livejournal.com
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  1. svp67
    svp67 29 May 2013 15: 41
    27
    Space was and still can become that "locomotive" that can pull our economy "up" ...
    1. OTAKE
      OTAKE 29 May 2013 16: 11
      -5
      Quote: svp67
      Space was and still can become that "locomotive" that can pull our economy "up" ...

      normal gasoline prices, normal roads, and the production of at least basic commodities could pull the economy up much better
      1. svp67
        svp67 29 May 2013 16: 15
        14
        Quote: OTAKE
        normal gasoline prices, normal roads, and the production of at least basic commodities could pull the economy up much better

        At the first stage - yes, but in the long run, space is not the worst option ...
        1. SPACE
          SPACE 29 May 2013 18: 05
          +8
          Quote: OTAKE
          normal gasoline prices, normal roads, and the production of at least basic commodities could pull the economy up much better


          Quote: svp67
          At the first stage - yes, but in the long run, space is not the worst option ...

          And that both cannot be developed together? Russia is now in first place in the number of launches per year, 29 launches for 2012, (for comparison, China 18, USA 13 data from Wikipedia). And google how many light and heavy industry plants in Russia work well. So all the way and do not go to extremes.
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 29 May 2013 21: 42
            -1
            Quote: SPACE

            And that both cannot be developed together? Russia is now in first place in the number of launches per year, 29 launches for 2012, (for comparison, China 18, USA 13 data from Wikipedia). And google how many light and heavy industry plants in Russia work well. So all the way and do not go to extremes.

            Of the 59 GPS satellites launched by the United States since 1978, 30 are still operating in orbit, then we have a different arithmetic: out of 118 GLONASS satellites that we launched since 1982, there are 24 in operation. This is all on the same topic of reliability and durability .
            First, take a look at the American GPS constellation. There are 30 satellites, the “youngest” of which are in orbit for 8 months. But there is no more such “young” in the grouping, the rest are satellites in the juice and veterans, three of which — 10% of the group — are in orbit over 20 years, the most “veteran” of them flying from 1990 of the year. All work fully. It remains only to be amazed (and envy) of the phenomenal reliability and quality of this technique (and its assembly) of the last century, which still allows us to perform regular tasks in the regular mode, without failures - regardless of age.
            Another thirteen satellites (43,33% of the grouping) are from 10 to 20 years - with the standard life expectancy of the American satellite 10 years. But it is these veterans, who are far beyond 10, the basis of the GPS grouping, over half of them. And, as it is easy to guess, it’s not at all because the Americans have nothing to replace them with or, say, they cannot afford to launch more modern ones - the margin of safety built into them is such that it allows them to work even after exceeding the standard terms. Nine satellites - almost a third of the grouping - are in orbit from 5 to 10 years, another five satellites are less than 5 years. In fact, all 30 GPS satellites and none - "temporarily withdrawn for maintenance", in the "orbital reserve" or "at the stage of flight tests." With such a space component, you can debate about the advantages or disadvantages of navigators, their technical parameters and cost.
            Here is such an economy. Desire is a good thing, but .....
            1. SPACE
              SPACE 29 May 2013 22: 16
              +1
              Quote: Vovka Levka
              From 59 GPS satellites launched by USA with 1978

              Yes, everything is right. The life span of American GPS satellites is on average 12 years, against our 6 years, but they promise to increase by Glonass K to 8 years. The problem is in electronic components, or rather in the dirma that they buy abroad. Satellites are exposed to solar radiation, which leads to the failure of electronics. By the way, Americans use specialized e-mail. components trade in which is prohibited. But all this does not change Russia's leading position in space, sooner or later our satellites will fly for a long time. But we will see how the Americans will develop having a penny on the development of space, and we have almost everything preserved, the same glonass despite the wild 90.
              1. Vovka levka
                Vovka levka 29 May 2013 23: 09
                -1
                Quote: SPACE
                The problem is in electronic components, or rather in the dirma that they buy abroad. Satellites are exposed to solar radiation, which leads to the failure of electronics.

                Where to get electronic components? Nothing of its own, but what is old and not reliable. In this matter, the abyss behind the Union was 10-15 years behind, and now I don’t even know.
                1. SPACE
                  SPACE 30 May 2013 08: 50
                  +3
                  Quote: Vovka Levka
                  Where to get electronic components? There is nothing

                  Don’t panic, everything will be! Russia is lagging behind laughing from whom or from what? For example, Americans now cannot send people to the ISS in space, following your logic, on the contrary, they are behind us! lol Russia, if lagging behind, is only in some narrow sectors of technology, oh yes, iPhones can’t do it yet, but they were able to make them thanks to Alferov. The general front of science, engineering and technology is very high, and in this, I’m not afraid to say that we have no competitors or even close equal, unless we take the whole Western world into comparison. And if you add to this the territory of the city, natural and mineral reserves ...
                  1. Vovka levka
                    Vovka levka 30 May 2013 15: 12
                    +1
                    Quote: SPACE
                    [
                    Don’t panic, everything will be!

                    I don’t panic at all. I just work in this industry, and I know what’s going on not by hearsay. Illusions do not build absolutely.
                    Of course, if you work, you can achieve everything, but the trouble is that people have no desire to work, and if there is a desire, they are serving it hard.
              2. psdf
                psdf 30 May 2013 13: 17
                0
                At the same time, the production of components on the territory of the Russian Federation ... in decline, unfortunately.
            2. Nitarius
              Nitarius 30 May 2013 07: 05
              0
              I assure you, dear! Regarding the quality of American satellites, they are far from perfect. Do not exaggerate their quality!
              as ours fall, so they fail!
              1. Vovka levka
                Vovka levka 30 May 2013 15: 14
                0
                Quote: Nitarius
                I assure you, dear! Regarding the quality of American satellites, they are far from perfect. Do not exaggerate their quality!
                as ours fall, so they fail!

                You don’t need to exaggerate anything, you just need to look at the statistics and draw conclusions.
      2. Sergey_K
        Sergey_K 29 May 2013 16: 19
        14
        I support. But space beckons like nothing else. I remember in the young technique they made a transceiver for 4 teams, but dreamed, of course, about Buran !!! There was no union anymore, the circle was bent ...
        To tell you the truth, I am full of pessimism regarding our future with you. It can’t continue to exist this way, a tough self-cleaning must take place. This has already happened and, I believe, will happen again within 10-20 years ...
        1. Barracuda148
          Barracuda148 29 May 2013 17: 19
          0
          This has already happened and, I believe, will happen again within 10-20 years ...

          This is again a revolution in the statue of 91gg.
          1. Su24
            Su24 30 May 2013 05: 36
            -1
            Quote: Barracuda148
            This has already happened and, I believe, will happen again within 10-20 years ...

            This is again a revolution in the statue of 91gg.


            Rather, in the style of the 1612th.
      3. astra
        astra 29 May 2013 16: 26
        12
        It is necessary to revive the space program. For example, in the USSR, satellite and aviation monitored aqua-biological resources of the oceans, this made it possible for fish trawlers to accurately reach giant schools of fish, as a result, the cost of fish on the shelves was cheap, even bought fish for cat food. As I remember, fish pies cost 3 kopecks!
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 29 May 2013 17: 18
          +7
          Only here, in order to realize these simple ideas, voiced in the above comments, it is necessary to change the leadership of the country in love! This is the main plug and without it in any way. Remove corrupt officials, judges, cops, priests. Perform a full cleaning of the power vertical. Without this initial action, all ingenious projects will be poached, as has already happened. For the main thing is not how much the project will benefit the country and the people, but how much you can roll back from it!
          In the meantime, we are standing at unprofitable stadiums, the Olympics in Sochi, shopping and religious centers, barryzhim oil and gas ...
          1. SPACE
            SPACE 29 May 2013 17: 55
            +2
            Quote: S_mirnov
            it is necessary to change the country's leadership in love! This is the main plug and without it in any way. Remove corrupt officials, judges, cops, priests. Clean the power vertical in the full sense of the word

            How will you determine the venality of officials or will you immediately change everyone and how to clean them up, or rather where to get them? And who in return put? And most importantly, who will solve this and how?
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 29 May 2013 19: 53
              +1
              "How you will determine" - history knows examples, the purge of the state apparatus at 37, helped a lot to prepare for the war of 41. Without this they would have crushed us.
              Yes, and many people have already come up with ways, for example:
              http://igpr.ru/aim
              1. SPACE
                SPACE 29 May 2013 21: 21
                +1
                Quote: S_mirnov
                history knows examples, cleaning the state apparatus in 37

                laughing And so I thought that you would say about 37 for a year, oh I would beat for! But where to find such an ideal judge? Otherwise, with dirma we can also replace normal ones. But this is not the main problem, you just try to do it now, Russia is an unpredictable country, you will get 100% civilian, or maybe worse, still 1937 and 2013 are too different times. And your link is theoretically good, but it can practically make any official, a criminal. Indeed, many of their actions, over time, can be interpreted differently. Example: Stalin was the leader of the people, and after 40 years he became a tyrant.
                Z.Y. All the same, I am for evolution, not revolution.
                1. S_mirnov
                  S_mirnov 30 May 2013 00: 48
                  +1
                  "ZY I'm all the same for evolution, not for revolution" - Duc, it's clear! Only who will give us time for evolution? And in general, who knows how much time we have left before they pile on?
                  1. SPACE
                    SPACE 30 May 2013 08: 31
                    +1
                    Quote: S_mirnov
                    And anyway, who knows how much time we have left before they pile up?

                    Well, and who is so brave that he dares to collapse? laughing Only I think this will not be a manifestation of courage, but stupidity again. And about the time, "Be ready, always ready"! angry
            2. Kolyan
              Kolyan 30 May 2013 04: 55
              +1
              rather, where do you get them?


              On felling.
          2. elmir15
            elmir15 29 May 2013 17: 56
            +4
            Quote: S_mirnov
            Clean the power vertical in the full sense of the word

            When recruiting state bodies and officials, in addition to the existing filters, it is necessary to add a polygraph check and conduct annual checks for corruption.
          3. Young Putin
            Young Putin 29 May 2013 19: 30
            -3
            Quote: S_mirnov
            it is necessary to change the leadership of the country in love!

            pour yourself gasoline and set it on fire, the power may change, in Tunisia it happened laughing
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 29 May 2013 19: 55
              +1
              Bullshit, suicide will not lead to change, you can see you are still a very young Putin.
          4. ded10041948
            ded10041948 29 May 2013 20: 13
            +1
            Is it your humor?
          5. Volkhov
            Volkhov 29 May 2013 22: 40
            0
            Quote: S_mirnov
            Change your leadership in your country!

            Another people need to be changed or done in order to fulfill the first point.
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 30 May 2013 00: 52
              0
              Our people - God forbid everyone! In WWII, he showed himself -Be healthy! We have a problem with the leaders!
              1. 416494
                416494 30 May 2013 01: 24
                0
                And where do the leaders come from? And space or what? From the same people. What kind of people are such and leaders and vice versa.
                1. geptilshik
                  geptilshik 30 May 2013 08: 35
                  +1
                  I'm afraid to lie, but the current leader is not even from outer space, but came much further to us.
      4. Sirocco
        Sirocco 29 May 2013 18: 24
        0
        I’ll look, in Ukraine the economy rushed up laughing Apparently your words fell into someone’s ears. lol
      5. Sashka
        Sashka 29 May 2013 18: 29
        +2
        I’ll add that normal people, and not moral freaks, could become the key to the prosperity of our Motherland ...
        And we still have a lot of such freaks, and they pull us to the bottom ...
        They are among us ...
      6. Atlon
        Atlon 29 May 2013 20: 53
        +2
        Quote: OTAKE
        normal gas prices

        Are these normal? More expensive? Cheaper?

        Quote: OTAKE
        normal roads, and the production of at least basic commodities could pull the economy "up" much better

        Vague doubts torment me ... Did you miss sausage and beer?
      7. RDS-1
        RDS-1 29 May 2013 22: 53
        +2
        Quote: OTAKE

        normal gas prices, normal roads, and production of at least essential goods

        And fifty grades of beer and twenty grades of sausage (s). The author of the article climbed out of his way to convey the idea of ​​the cost-effectiveness of space exploration, but alas - in vain: for those who want to fill their belly with at least a little head on their head, they are physically unable to tear themselves away from the feeder and raise snouthead to the stars.
        1. Atlon
          Atlon 29 May 2013 23: 52
          0
          Quote: RDS-1
          And also fifty grades of beer and twenty grades of sausage (s)

          Sausage with beer quantitatively mixed up in a quote ... smile And so, that's right! good
          1. RDS-1
            RDS-1 30 May 2013 00: 31
            0
            Whoops! repeat

            I put myself in a private affair minus for rotozeystvo.
        2. OTAKE
          OTAKE 30 May 2013 06: 50
          +2
          Quote: RDS-1
          And fifty grades of beer and twenty grades of sausage (s). The author of the article went out of his way to convey the idea of ​​the cost-effectiveness of space exploration, but alas: in vain: those who want to fill their belly with at least a head on their head, they are physically unable to tear themselves away from the feeder and raise the snout head to the stars.

          I live on a collective farm - give us a normal price for a solarium and don’t meddle so we can pull the economy

          A person has already answered you for the whole movement, space is very healthy, but still it is better to support the foundation of the state’s life from the bottom, and there it is reaching for the stars. And as for the sausage, the old vyser, tell it better to some pensioner who, having come to the store for 100500 varieties of sausages, looks and comes home chewing the last piece of black bread to be proud of Russian achievements in space exploration (more precisely, the development of dough).
        3. Gur
          Gur 30 May 2013 08: 42
          0
          And for me, as it is not in the consumer 20 sorts of beer and 50 types of sausage, I would have that Soviet Zhigulevsky which had a shelf life of 7 days, and the bubbles were so square, and a cowbas from meat, which was not on the shelves (in abundance) (since meat does not grow quickly) as well as milk from milk and not from horseradish knows what, and so on according to the list (although, to be honest, I had enough of both, the village helped) and our roads were not the worst, there are sections which have not been altered since the times of the USSR and they are in better condition than they were supposed to last year. I did not think about space and its revenues and expenses in the USSR, as it did not bother me, and the fuel was at least filled up and the electricity was penny, and medicine and training. What now? No matter how much you pay to them, everything is small, and still there is no money. For such palaces, such machines, and everything else, those whose appetites grow disproportionately, what kind of space can we talk about, where is space and where is its hacienda. obvious thieves, agents and traitors do not find punishment, well, there are no laws on them, for that, for a loaf of bread you can get it as for a launch vehicle.
    2. Quiet
      Quiet 29 May 2013 22: 35
      +3
      Space was and still can become that "locomotive" that can pull our economy "up" ...

      Russian space still lives on self-sufficiency !!!! Launching other people's satellites, delivering foreign crews to the ISS, Roskosmos earns money and builds the "Rus" spacecraft !!! Good luck guys hi drinks soldier
    3. Siberian German
      Siberian German 30 May 2013 04: 28
      +1
      I live on a collective farm - give us a normal price for a solarium and don’t meddle so we can pull the economy
    4. psdf
      psdf 30 May 2013 13: 15
      0
      Oh space-to-space ...
      But the various Gaidars in the 90s were very boastfully published in newspapers, which concluded long-term agreements for the supply of oil and gas abroad at prices around $ 20 per barrel.
      I really want to believe that the resource to rise in the industry remains.
  2. Komodo
    Komodo 29 May 2013 16: 11
    +3
    And how much, in your opinion, "rubles" can you estimate the value of Gagarin's flight ???
    What time, Dear author, do you rate superiority in space ??
    It's the same as on the battlefield - air superiority.
    How much has it cost, and will it cost to overcome the lag in this industry?
    Look at the electronics abandoned then, we are still catching up ...
  3. Uncle
    Uncle 29 May 2013 16: 17
    -7
    So what is debit credit? It is immediately clear that the author is not an economist, otherwise he would have written the "debit" without errors.
  4. Asgard
    Asgard 29 May 2013 16: 32
    17
    When the Union were profitable all freight, including rail and air ....
    Wait are dated.
    The two main revenue items in the budget of the USSR were alcohol (state monopoly) and and film distribution !!!!!
    Wait to poison People and two Russian films are shown in three cinemas)))
    Agriculture accounted for a third of budget revenues and provided 100% of the country's food security.
    Wait import 75% .....+ GMOs and lack of control ....
    1. elmir15
      elmir15 29 May 2013 17: 59
      +7
      It used to be better, that's why many people want the USSR back, or USSR2 with improvements.
  5. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 29 May 2013 16: 43
    13
    And how proud we were of the first satellite ... And I still remember with pride about Gagarin’s flight good
  6. DEfindER
    DEfindER 29 May 2013 16: 51
    +6
    Cosmos has always been an engine of progress; all the latest developments have come to civilian life from the Space and Defense industries. New materials, new technologies are born there, which takes our entire civilization to a new level of development and radically changes our whole life.
  7. Selevc
    Selevc 29 May 2013 16: 55
    +7
    Space, in principle, cannot be unprofitable since it is a branch of industry in which the most advanced technologies are applied - which later apply to other industries ... Space cannot be unprofitable because it is a forge of scientific personnel and various specialists ...
    Naturally, to thieves and dealers, Cosmos seems unprofitable since it does not bode fast super-profits ...
    1. treskoed
      treskoed 29 May 2013 17: 07
      +5
      Everything can be unprofitable here - space, skolkovo, and nano, and glonass and Olympic facilities .... But if you put a trace on self-financing, then all sectors will become profitable!
      1. Uhalus
        Uhalus 29 May 2013 17: 25
        +2
        Mne-uh ... And what is cost accounting? On what scales and planes to count it? For a huge Soviet state - a profit, of course, but for an oligarch, even the richest (doherarch level :)) - just a loss ...
        And Skolkovo's unprofitableness is simple: there will be no one to work there - education is something yok. The Olympics have always been unprofitable; it was a demonstration of the country's power and self-promotion. As for the "nano-" - we would already have it, under socialism, such work was carried out back in the 70s (according to the magazines "Science and Life" from my childhood), so now nanotechnology was not only in the conversations of officials, even, it seems , not even close to what it is.
        Well, the reason for our current loss-making is to steal, sir. Truly on a cosmic scale, what are the Sochi scandals worth.
  8. Vtel
    Vtel 29 May 2013 17: 09
    +4
    In the USSR, they overtook us in space, now we are engaged in commercial launches, we take heavy-weight tourists to space tours.
  9. White
    White 29 May 2013 17: 13
    +1
    Now it does not matter what. All of this is just an excuse for history; it is impossible to turn back anyway.
    But I put "-" in the article. Because of this statement
    So, in 1989, the Soviet press finally published reports of work on the creation of a heavy H-1 rocket. If these works, for which about 2.5 billion rubles were spent, were not a willful decision in 1974, at the final testing stage would have been terminated, then today's Energia launch vehicle would not have to start from scratch.

    The N-1 rocket was designed for axial load, it was not possible to remake it for securing the cargo from the side. Accordingly, the author’s statement is incorrect. And the truth of the rest of the figure, I do not know.

    And the USSR had the best missiles and military aircraft in the world, but I don’t understand what prevented the leadership from providing the same work in other areas - light industry, SG, etc. ...
    1. Pablo_K
      Pablo_K 29 May 2013 17: 50
      0
      Quote: White
      And the USSR had the best missiles and military aircraft in the world, but I don’t understand how that prevented the leadership from providing the same work in other areas - light industry, SG, etc.

      And what prevents a bad dancer?
      Yes, modern leadership is not the best dancers.
  10. pahom54
    pahom54 29 May 2013 17: 19
    0
    Quote: Selevc
    Space, in principle, cannot be unprofitable since it is a branch of industry in which the most advanced technologies are applied - which later apply to other industries ... Space cannot be unprofitable because it is a forge of scientific personnel and various specialists ...
    Naturally, to thieves and dealers, Cosmos seems unprofitable since it does not bode fast super-profits ...

    I completely agree. For some reason, no one mentioned what scientific and technological achievements appeared due to the development of space programs. It was just that it was necessary not to secure all these developments tightly, but as in the States - after 5 years, remove the secrecy stamp and put into the national economy.
    Space programs are still important and necessary for Russia!
  11. Strashila
    Strashila 29 May 2013 17: 33
    0
    The numbers speak for themselves ... but at the same time, the loading of the space group for the needs of the Moscow Region and civilian programs did not exceed 60% (somewhere it flashed in the press in the early 90s)
  12. Alexey M
    Alexey M 29 May 2013 17: 36
    +2
    We didn’t keep them, but weeping.
  13. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 29 May 2013 17: 42
    0
    Yes, I remember these screamers in the media as they poured mud on our "Buran" .. Almost all the benefits of civilization (computers, Internet mobile phones, microwave ovens, etc.) were developed for the military and space .. and Soviet scientists are not a small merit in this. Buran "at that time made a flight into space on autopilot without people for that time it was on the verge of fantasy ..
  14. shamil
    shamil 29 May 2013 17: 57
    +1
    that power what purpose pursued-all to ruin and ruin? eh! what a country we were now!
  15. zennon
    zennon 29 May 2013 18: 06
    +1
    The author is apparently a man far from technology, and hardly seriously interested in the history of space exploration.
    "
    So, in 1989, the Soviet press finally published reports on work on the creation of a heavy rocket N-1. If these works, for which about 2.5 billion rubles were spent, had not been a strong-willed decision in 1974 at the stage of final tests were terminated, then it would not have been necessary to start from scratch today's Energia launch vehicle. "
    The remark is simply idiotic. It is rare to read such nonsense. N-1 (first carrier), was a stillborn child, and the fruit of a squabble of great, (really great!) Designers. SP Korolev started making it. Possessing colossal authority, he "pushed through" creation of a giant rocket on oxygen-kerosene engines. V.P. Glushko, realizing the extinction of this monster, refused to make engines for him on the cut. They entrusted Kuznetsov. As a result, 105!, Relatively weak engines were stuck in a monster 3000 meters high, and with a starting mass of almost 30 tons. Clever Chelomey said to Korolev “No it will fly for you, no, it will not fly ... "Where there! Nobody wanted to listen to him -" FORWARD TO THE MOON "! But in vain! VN Chelomey, along with Yangel, being the main blacksmith of our missile shield, was a genius. far. It was he who created the magnificent "Proton", which regularly displays heavy satellites for 40 years already. Korolyov died, Mishin was instructed to complete the work. The excellent engineer turned out to be no leader. Forcing many thousands of people to work in an emergency mode, under a hundred institutes, spending x Eve a cloud of money finally started testing. Well, what? 4 starts, 4 disasters. The first stage never separated (and there are 5 of them!). At the second launch, the Barmin's launch pad was gouged. Well, at the end, in the 76th, they closed it ...
  16. fisherman
    fisherman 29 May 2013 18: 15
    +1
    Yes, to present the USSR that he did not complete the program because of his death, this is strong. There are facts that housing construction grew very rapidly, and only when the USSR began to break down in 1990 did it begin to fall. And the indicators of 1989 still can not reach
    1. DPN
      DPN 29 May 2013 21: 50
      0
      In the USSR, housing was built for people, and now for those who have extra money, this is how life in Russia works.
  17. Const
    Const 29 May 2013 19: 56
    +1
    And for all this in the "totalitarian red empire", to the detriment of the whole world. What are we all the same evil and greedy. For that now we have become white, fluffy, "Democratic" and ... beggars (except for the most democratic democrats). A question to the intelligentsia - everything turns out to be fools, and you are always right? Maybe you just need to move to "normal" countries and not whine about patriotism? Which cow is slaughtered first in the herd?
  18. DPN
    DPN 29 May 2013 21: 44
    0
    Quote: OTAKE
    Quote: svp67
    Space was and still can become that "locomotive" that can pull our economy "up" ...

    normal gasoline prices, normal roads, and the production of at least basic commodities could pull the economy up much better

    This is from the realm of fiction, you can not even remember this, the engine has already left in '91.
  19. individual
    individual 29 May 2013 21: 46
    0
    The specific consumption per inhabitant of the country is 24.6 rubles per year.
    For a modern young man, the prices are weird.
    For me, a cadet of the 1968 Tbilisi Signal Company, the salary was as follows: 3 rubles 80 kopecks per month. A bottle of lemonade is 11 kopecks, and the container itself is 12k. A can of condensed milk 45 kopecks. Bun 5k., If with raisins 6k. BT cigarettes are the most expensive -50k. bought and smoked for 7k - "Army" or "Zvezda" cigarettes, 11k - "surf" cigarettes. On dismissal, civilians of Tbilisi will always be treated to free beer "Velvet" 20k. or "Zhigulevskoe", "Kolos" - 22k. In squares and parks, grapes, figs, something else grew freely, but it was not customary to pick anything. In case of catching the offender, they took off their boots and you can be free barefoot. As a rule, in the morning the boots were handed over to the checkpoint ... But this is another story of another country, which I remember with nostalgia.
  20. DPN
    DPN 29 May 2013 22: 36
    +2
    Of course, it’s nice to recall past victories in space, Soviet people were the first in space: Y. GAGARIN, V. TERESHKOVA, A. LEONOV. The Russian one performs the role of a delivery driver to the ISS, while the STATES allow it, on Soviet-developed rockets. Now Russia needs a victory in space, this is a flight to Mars, only after that there will be pride in its country. So far, from the TV we are informed only about victories in space of the USA, and Russian new billionaires.
  21. regsSSSR
    regsSSSR 29 May 2013 23: 20
    +1
    well, everything is very sad kanechno. But it could be so!
    1. Van
      Van 30 May 2013 00: 43
      +1
      The movie itself, perhaps ...
  22. postman
    postman 30 May 2013 00: 34
    0
    Quote: Author
    So what is debit credit?
    In fiscal year 1989, space programs in our country were allocated 6.9 billion rubles., including for national economic and scientific, as well as defense purposes - 1.7 and 3.9 billion rubles. respectively. 1.3 billion rubles. work on "Buran" cost. From these figures it is clear that the specific consumption per inhabitant of the country is 24.6 rubles per year


    Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the USSR General of the Army Vladimir Lobov (until the collapse of the USSR in 1991):
    USSR military spending make up one third or more of GNP. The data of General Lobov, American experts have identified as the corresponding 260 billion rubles in 1988 prices, that is, over 300 billion dollars at the official exchange rate of that time.

    HERE IT IS NECESSARY AND "DANCE"
    JUST THINK:
    The question is, how can an army worth 5-6 billion dollars a year be comparable, in terms of quantity, quantity and quality of armaments with the US, which costs 300 billion dollars a year, and even keep the military industry with 2 million employees, that is, more than in the USA?
    So it is with Komonavtika, I will not even refute nonsense with
    http://grey-croco.livejournal.com/407187.html
    The legend was probably born with
    http://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/znan/1990/4/4-kuda.html
    Quote: Author
    For reference. The expenditure part of the USSR budget for 1989 a year amounted to 465.1 billion rubles.


    Numbers for reference:
    due to which they lived well.
    The internal debt of the USSR , billion rubles:
    1985 --- 141,6;
    1986 --- 161,7;
    1987 --- 219,6;
    1988 --- 311,8;
    1989 --- 398,6;
    1990 --- 566,1.
    The national economy of the USSR in 1990

    External debt of the USSR , billion dollars :
    1984 --- 31,3;
    1985 --- 33,5;
    1986 --- 38,5;
    1987 --- 41,5;
    1988 --- 45,4;
    1989 --- 64,8;
    1990 --- 70,3;
    According to Vnesheconombank of the USSR
    Printing money as I want, I can make any part of the budget, and the cost of production is ANY
    Further reading does not make sense. Juggling the facts (solid). Question: on a fig and to whom it (rigging) is necessary?
    COSMOS IS SPEND, AND DOES NOT BRING PROFIT (in absolute terms, but not in terms of: PROTON RN cost / Start-up cost: REMEMBER HOW MANY COUNTRIES SPEND BY RYA SHIELD?
    Otherwise, each limpopo received
    Quote: Author
    So, in 1988, from the implementation of these programs, an income of about 2 billion rubles was received
    by spending
    Quote: Author
    for national and scientific - 1.7 billion
    = 17,6% (minus Buran and minus defense)
    1. postman
      postman 30 May 2013 00: 35
      +1
      Quote: Author
      on the creation of a heavy N-1 rocket. If these works, for which about 2.5 billion rubles were spent.

      Ha = ha.
      I recommend the author to visit:
      1.Baikonur
      2.Plesetsk
      to see firsthand the scale of work and the remnants of N-1
      3. Make a simple mathematical calculation:
      -From 1964 (62) to 1973, the US federal budget was allocated to the Saturn 5 program 6,5 billion dollars(AT TECHNICAL PRICES)
      http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_18-16_Apollo_Program_Budget_Appropriation
      s.htm

      - Start of work on the LV N-1 (11A52) = 1962
      OFFICIAL COURSE OF THE RUBLE OF THE USSR in 1960: 5,1 rubles to the dollar in 1960 (Further +/- pennies, jump in 1976). THIS IS OFFICIAL, BUT NOT REAL (MARKET RATE), but it was approximately = 17-18r / $ (remember: "MV, the US got fat from supplies, new sales markets, Marshall plan, falling pound sterling, world currency, yen and yuan no , oil costs a penny, etc.)

      2 500 000 000 p: 5 p / $ = 500 000 000 $ 500 million dollars.
      6,5 billion against 0,5 billion
      Take account :
      -2MV
      the destroyed European part of the USSR
      - no industry and related technological base
      - labor productivity in the USSR was at times inferior to PT in the USA
      -etc.
      AUTHOR do you and your colleagues consider the electorate to be idiots?
      No offense. Well, at least take a calculator in your hands
    2. psdf
      psdf 30 May 2013 13: 33
      0
      The extreme plate is very clear.
      Several years ago I leafed through the statistics of foreign economic activity of the USSR, and also drew attention to the indicated periods. Taking into account the increased mortality rate of leaders and the intensification of the most failed internal processes, it becomes obvious that they "helped" Gorbachev and other "democrats" very much.
      In general, all to one.
      1. postman
        postman 30 May 2013 15: 10
        0
        Quote: psdf
        The extreme plate is very clear

        Oh, if you take the statistics from the Goskomstat, this is a storehouse of information, you just need to come up soberly. As with the military spending of the USSR
  23. Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 30 May 2013 01: 27
    0
    The economic benefits of space programs are not limited to primitive calculations in rubles and dollars, which are so fond of modern "economists".
    Much more important than monetary gain were civilizational benefits.
    Then, for example, not only boys, but also very many girls studied at school and institutes with confidence in the future and with a sense of the need to master complex technologies.
    Then the industry developed in a normal way, not like now. For the results of the activity were supposed to take off and work, and not be quoted and monetized ...
    Then people were more responsible, for they understood that the fate of not only an individual cosmonaut, but also the country as a whole, could depend on any trifle.
    Then there was no sex, but love was alive!
    1. postman
      postman 30 May 2013 02: 29
      +1
      Quote: Sergey S.
      Then, for example, not only boys, but also very many girls studied at school and institutes with confidence in the future and with a sense of the need to master complex technologies.

      ?
      Studied from 1974 to 1984 (School)
      there was no FEELING in mastering complex technologies.
      Mugs yes, but this is not a school, this is an initiative
      AU 1984 to 1991 (1992) Institute
      greatest knowledge about
      Quote: Sergey S.
      sophisticated technology.
      scooped up in the library (foreign scientific journals- chipboard.
      From personal experience, I got 5 in "materials science", plunging the teacher into shock with a story about obtaining monocrystalline turbine blades (I did not attend lectures). When asked where the drowish came from, "I did not give you such information" - I read "Scientific American" the other day. 5 in the record. Free.


      Quote: Sergey S.
      Then industry developed in a normal way,

      NOT NORMAL:
      1.In total for the post-war period - from 1946 to 1987 - NATO countries producedcolo 60
      thousand main battle tanks
      . Of this amount, about two-thirds (41 thousand) fall to the United States, and the remaining tanks are produced by countries in Western Europe, including (in thousand): Germany - 8, Great Britain - 7,3, France - 2,8, Italy 1,1 , 0,4, Spain - XNUMX

      Jane's Armor Estimated only tanks five typescomposed
      currently in service with the Soviet Army (T-54/55, T-62, T-64, T-72 and T-80), Soviet Union produced about 100 thousand, including over 50 thousand T-54/55, 20 thousand T-62, at least 9,3 thousand T-64, 8,5 thousand T-72 (according to T-64 "And" T-72 "Western estimates give only the total number of tanks in the Soviet troops without accounting for the supply of these tanks to other countries of the Department of Internal Affairs for export) and 7 thousand T-80 tanks.
      Only the five types of tanks mentioned above of the USSR produced morethan produced tanks the rest of the worlde for a period of more than 40 years

      2. There was no toilet paper
      3. I remember a child (a veteran, a knight of orders) bought a REFRIGERANT according to some distribution and sent it to Odessa to his son (lieutenant colonel of the armored forces) by mail
      Well, etc.
      Quote: Sergey S.
      Then people were more responsible, because they understood

      Failure to launch the Energia launch vehicle (1st), wiping the inner surfaces with an alcohol solution (special rags), forgot it in the fuel tank, filled it with a component, partially softened, partially dissolved, partially the effect of NT - the residues clogged the filters of the inlet fuel intake pipe.
      AND THIS WAS FINDED AFTER THE FAILURE to start (for another reason), otherwise there would be kirdyk
      "Energy" is the first and only one.

      =======
      Do not make up fairy tales
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 30 May 2013 14: 51
        0
        Fairy tales, in the USSR, fundamental science was developed, applied, too, but worse. Now, practically, neither one nor the other.
  24. Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 30 May 2013 03: 46
    0
    Quote: Postman

    Do not make up fairy tales

    Fairy tales?
    On trifles - maybe, but the main thing was the earlier realized scientific path of development.
    This was done sufficiently by the middle brains, hence the shortcomings in the perception of what is happening that you list.
    But if we go slowly and with stops, this does not preclude the possibility of achieving the goal, because the main thing is that the direction of the path is correct.
    For example, you yourself, showing a natural interest, were able, as I understand it, to get used to the complex technical world.

    As for mistakes and absurdities, no one is safe from them. If we go to particulars, then hundreds of thousands of negative cases can be listed for both Soviet and Western industry. That is not the point.

    The main thing is that now there is also no certainty that today's tales are achievable, and the feeling of injustice in public relations is much higher.
    1. postman
      postman 30 May 2013 04: 10
      0
      Quote: Sergey S.
      The main thing is that now there is also no certainty that today's tales are achievable, and the feeling of injustice in public relations is much higher.

      about "today", I won't say anything at all.
      The USSR does not need to be idealized (it’s the same to lie in numbers), but what we have today is generally cocoa, veiled under the market.
      here is a photo, comments are not needed
  25. geptilshik
    geptilshik 30 May 2013 08: 40
    0
    Today, the news read that the UK plans to open a criminal case of theft at the construction of a center for monitoring and confirming the characteristics of the GLONASS system in Korolev. Himself from there, I drive around the house every day, I think now we’ll build and kick our ass Zhipiesnikov kim, but no, they plundered again. Well, when does happiness come in our Motherland
  26. Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 30 May 2013 09: 13
    +1
    Quote: Postman

    The USSR does not need to be idealized (lying in numbers is the same)

    I agree.
    But, Naturally, in each situation, make comparisons and focus on the best samples.

    So I am for the Soviet power and for the communist future, implemented taking into account past mistakes and shortcomings.
  27. Hort
    Hort 30 May 2013 12: 10
    0
    ZY I read the brochure now, and I can't calm down. If it was planned for 2000 year, what could be today?
    yeah, this is one of those things that I will never forget the current democrats (starting with tagged) - many of us have taken away the dream to explore the near and far space. As pathetic as it sounds
  28. postman
    postman 30 May 2013 12: 11
    +1
    Quote: Sergey S.
    So I for the Soviet power and for the communist future implemented taking into account past mistakes and shortcomings

    I am NOT, and I do not want children.
    How can one be believed?
    "For us, morality is subordinated to the interests of the class struggle of the proletariat ... We do not believe in eternal morality and we expose the deception of all tales of morality."| Lenin
    In the newspaper "Red Terror" of November 1, 1918: "We are not waging war against individuals. We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class. Do not look at the investigation for materials and evidence that the accused acted in a deed or word against the Soviets. The first question you should ask him is what class he belongs to, what kind of background he is, upbringing or profession. These questions should determine the fate of the accused. This is the meaning and essence of the Red Terror. "

    What are the differences from A. Hitler: “I free you from the dirty and rotting chimera, called conscience and morality”


    WHAT CHANGED:
    from the Hussite movement in the Czech Republic of the XV century, the Peasant War in Germany of the XVI century.
    Cherz Paris Commune
    to the Bolshevik coup of 1917, the Pol-Poth regime and to the DPRK.
    It's nothing.
    The slogan: "Communism is the doctrine of the conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat."
    The swamp will be so and so.
    REFERENCE: look at the number of party members under Stalin and Prikhrushchev with Brezhnev, correlate with the country's population.
    surprise to find 2% and 10%. And now to the "United Russia" and control over NGP.
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 30 May 2013 14: 38
      0
      Quote: Postman
      We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class.

      Yes, Herr Postman wink
      Quote: Postman
      what class he belongs to, what kind of origin, upbringing or profession he is. These questions should determine the fate of the accused.

      It can be even simpler - mass shootings without trial
      Quote: Postman
      I set you free from the dirty and rotting chimera called conscience and morality

      What is the difference from united Russia?
      Quote: Postman
      "Communism is a teaching about the conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat.", Only a screen for the redistribution of power, privileges and benefits from one hand to another.

      Well yes. What do you want?
      The Union itself bent down for the same reason - the nomenklatura privatized the country's wealth, another "redistribution of property"
      Quote: Postman
      from the Hussite movement in the Czech Republic of the XV century.

      Jan Hus seemed to be doing everything right + EMNIP there it was all a matter of religion .. or not?
      1. postman
        postman 30 May 2013 15: 24
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        It can be even simpler - mass shootings without trial

        Bokiy, Gleb Ivanovich - from March 1918, Deputy Chairman, from August to November 1918 Chairman of the Cheka, Union of Communities of the Northern Region and the Petrograd Cheka. The organizer of the Red Terror in Petrograd and the Northern Region - THERE HE STOPPED UP in full:
        -banned to leave the district of St. Petersburg, everyone, and executions, shots, shots. Just.
        One soul warms:
        Gleb Bokiy was shot at the personal instructions of Joseph Stalin. In the "execution" Stalinist list (AP RF, op.24, file 412, sheet 134), his surname appears at number 6.


        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        What is the difference from united Russia?

        Well, you compared, google:What United Russia has done in 10 years - how election promises are being fulfilled
        What Adolf Hitler did and gave to the people of Germany
        You will be shocked

        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The Union itself bent down for the same reason - the nomenklatura privatized the country's wealth, another "redistribution of property"

        Take a look for the sake of interest the dynamics of the growth of members of the CPS for the entire existence of the party. You will be amazed.
        19 000 000 people
        Studying such numbers, I begin to respect Satalin (2).
        Moreover, out of 19 million percent, 80 was shit, which destroyed the country. Director of regional trade communist?
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Jan Hus seemed to be doing everything right + EMNIP there it was all a matter of religion .. or not?


        and what's the difference, it all comes down to one thing:
        “You know, professor, if you were not a European luminary and did not intercede for you in the most outrageous way, you should be arrested!”
        - For what?!.
        - And you do not like the proletariat!
        - Yes, I do not like the proletariat ...


        - Yes, I do not agree.
        - What, with Engels or with Kautsky?
        - With both.

        But what is there to offer? .. And they write, they write ... Congress, some Germans ... the head swells! Take everything, and share ...


        In general, you occupy an excessive area. Absolutely excessive. You alone live in seven rooms.
        “I live and work alone in seven rooms,” answered Philippe Filippovich,
        - and would like to have an eighth. I need it for the library.
        Four were numb.
        - Eighth! Eh hehe, ”said the blond, deprived of his headgear,
        however, that’s great.
        - This is indescribable! - exclaimed the young man, who turned out to be a womanth.
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 30 May 2013 15: 36
          0
          Quote: Postman
          Director of regional trade communist?

          We must shoot him.
          Quote: Postman
          In general, you occupy an excessive area. Absolutely excessive. You alone live in seven rooms.
          “I live and work alone in seven rooms,” answered Philippe Filippovich,
          - and would like to have an eighth.

          laughing good
          To shoot Philip Filipovich.
          1. postman
            postman 30 May 2013 16: 20
            0
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            We must shoot him.

            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            To shoot Philip Filipovich.

            That cha suffered something.
            What didn’t get warm after visiting our wonderful town?
            "Give them freedom" will we get Oleg half a pot? What khvmer will be now? tricolor? wink

            ===============
            But seriously, turning to the article: written nonsense, provocative and lies.
            for 0,5 Lyama H-1. is impressive
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 30 May 2013 14: 55
      0
      One cannot compare the early USSR, the pre-war USSR, the Khrushchev USSR, Brezhnev and Gorbachev. They are different.
      1. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 30 May 2013 15: 13
        0
        Quote: fzr1000
        One cannot compare the early USSR, the pre-war USSR, the Khrushchev USSR, Brezhnev and Gorbachev. They are different.

        Which was better in your opinion?

        IMHO 1960-1980 years. were the best in the history of the Russian state
      2. postman
        postman 30 May 2013 15: 28
        0
        Quote: fzr1000
        It is impossible to compare the early USSR, the pre-war USSR, the Khrushchev USSR

        And I didn’t compare. (Kaptsov got ahead of me)
        If you are interested I will send ALL dynamics (1988 edition in my opinion) - AMAZING, if you sit overpower this very knizhentsiya. There are also children and wages. Megabyte 500 is true.
        Quote: fzr1000
        They are different.

        What?
        The constitution? (Stalinist acted give memory boshg until my 10th birthday)
        Lead and guide?
        People (so all the same faces)
        Outside environment?
        Or the fact that all capable active peasants were controlled in the 30s?
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 30 May 2013 15: 41
          0
          Quote: Postman
          They are different. Than?

          Internal and external course, foreign policy situation, economy.
          "Khrushchev's thaw", the rehabilitation of the repressed (refusal of mass repressions and red terror), the peasants were returned their passports, the Khrushchev program of housing construction, the general growth of the population's welfare, the flourishing of science and arts, etc.

          To compare Khrushchev and Daragov Leonid Ilyich with the Stalinist mess - everything is clear there. All conditions have changed. The country has become completely different.
          1. postman
            postman 30 May 2013 16: 17
            0
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Internal and external course

            I'm talking about economic aspects ... (GDP, labor productivity), and you're talking about serf farm law.
            By the way, for reference: Nikita is reproached in vain for destroying his private subsidiary farm.
            Compare taxes under Stalin and with him. you get a little

            / Ilyich doesn’t stick to this, although at the beginning of 10 years he was very much nothing as a leader. You can say the conservative /
  29. Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 30 May 2013 19: 12
    0
    Talk about the realities of the USSR is unauthorized.
    You can not enter the same water twice.
    The new Soviet power will no longer be based on the dictatorship of the proletariat,
    collectivization is no longer needed - it has long moved into the field of self-organizing processes,
    repression is hardly possible, unless, of course, they mean the punishment of thieves and bandits.

    What then will change?
    A large share of distribution through public consumption funds. This is not about officials and cottages in the Canaries, it is free education, free medicine, it is normal and feasible for all housing and communal services, it is friendship at work and property equality of children ....
  30. Mr.M
    Mr.M 30 May 2013 23: 17
    +1
    The Cold War can be treated differently, but pay attention to what a breakthrough it has generated in science, and in the space sphere in particular! I would venture to suggest that if the USSR still existed, then relevant issues would already become development lunar / martian resources.

    But alas. Budgets are being sawn, and empty satellite blanks without equipment go to the bottom of the sea.