In defense of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation

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In defense of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation

Today we often hear criticism of the Black Sea fleet The Russian Navy. The gist of it is this: the fleet suffered significant losses, was unable to defend itself at its main base, was forced to leave Sevastopol, and is now inactive.

All this is true. I myself criticized the Black Sea Fleet for the fact that in the pre-war period the fleet completely ignored the organization of the defense of its own bases, which made it extremely vulnerable to the impact of BEKs. In my article I allowed myself to talk about this topic historical a parallel with the prototype of modern BEKs - Italian sabotage boats.

Where the water area protection (OVR) was carried out half-heartedly, the British fleet suffered serious losses, losing the heavy cruiser York. Where the base defenses were seriously organized, the Italians suffered a crushing defeat, losing equipment and highly trained saboteurs, but achieving absolutely no results (the attack on Malta).

Accordingly, it can be argued that if the Black Sea Fleet's construction had been carried out "from the ground up," that is, by rebuilding the operational capability to protect naval bases from surprise attacks by enemy navies and their sabotage assets, followed by expansion to other missions, the Ukrainian BEF would not have achieved any significant success. Unfortunately, the lack of a systematic approach to naval construction, and this applies not only to the Black Sea Fleet, has led to completely unnecessary losses that could have been avoided.

The loss of the Black Sea Fleet flagship, rocket The cruiser Moskva... Only the lazy haven't criticized the Black Sea Fleet for it. But here again, the issue of the lack of a systematic approach to fleet development comes to the fore. For when a fleet is conceived and created as a system capable of monitoring the air, surface, and underwater environment and destroying anything not permitted to exist in that environment, then such a fleet has no need to send a 40-year-old cruiser that hasn't undergone a single significant upgrade to provide radar patrol in the area of ​​enemy anti-ship missiles.

The cause of the Moskva's sinking has still not been publicly disclosed. It cannot be ruled out that the flagship was destroyed not by a Ukrainian strike, but by an accident similar to the one that occurred on the Admiral Zakharov on February 17, 1992. Back then, a gas turbine malfunctioned and was destroyed, with debris piercing a fuel tank, causing a massive fire in the hull's interior, in close proximity to the ammunition magazines. This is very similar to the damage sustained on the missile cruiser Moskva, but the Admiral Zakharov was ultimately saved.

As for the Ukrainian Armed Forces' statements, who doubts that they were capable of declaring "Moscow" their victory after NATO intelligence services discovered that the Black Sea Fleet's flagship was on fire?

All of the above reasons, of course, don't absolve the fleet command of responsibility, nor do they address the issues surrounding the training of our sailors, but this responsibility cannot be placed solely on them. Certainly, our fleet can and should be criticized for its slow response to emerging threats, as was the case with the BEK, and such criticism is entirely justified.

But to accuse the Black Sea Fleet of inaction today, in my opinion, is both wrong and completely unfair. Why is that? Let's look at the tasks that could be assigned to the Black Sea Fleet in any armed conflict in the Black Sea, and consider them in the context of the Northern Military District.

Task No. 1. Destruction of enemy naval forces


This is an important, necessary, and understandable task, even for someone unfamiliar with naval matters. However, it's absolutely impossible to tackle this task now, for the simple reason that the Ukrainians have already accomplished it perfectly well without our participation. At the beginning of the Northern Military District, the Ukrainian Navy had no submarines, and the Ukrainian sailors either sank or abandoned any significant surface ships, leaving them to us. aviation The Ukrainian Navy had several transport aircraft, helicopters, and Bayraktar UAVs. Apparently, any that survived were used in ground combat.

And that's all the Ukrainian Navy has. Yes, the Ukrainians make extensive use of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), and sometimes they land on boats, but boats and UAVs aren't a navy; they're sabotage weapons, and the latter are essentially the same kind of munition as an anti-ship missile or artillery Projectile. The Ukrainian Armed Forces also use cruise missiles, usually launched from their own airspace. Countering them is difficult for a reason I'll explain below, but for now I'll limit myself to stating a fact: the Black Sea Fleet can't fight the Ukrainian Navy because the latter no longer exists.

Task No. 2. Formation of the A2/AD zone


The acronym A2/AD stands for anti-access and area denial. Simply put, a modern navy must be able to achieve zonal dominance in desired areas so that any adversary attempting to penetrate these areas is detected and destroyed before it can accomplish its combat mission.

This task is extremely important, and the Black Sea Fleet is attempting to achieve it by identifying and destroying unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) approaching our bases and repelling cruise missile attacks. While some successes have undoubtedly been achieved, establishing zonal dominance is out of the question. Under the current circumstances, however, it would be impossible to expect the Black Sea Fleet to establish an A2/AD zone, for several reasons.

Firstly, due to the short distances in the theater, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are entering an area that our fleet should be monitoring not with weapons carriers, but with the weapons themselves—unmanned combat aircraft and cruise missiles. These, of course, have significantly lower signatures than ships or aircraft, making their timely detection more difficult.

Secondly, unfortunately, in our fleet development, we've focused on commissioning warships and (sometimes) multirole fighters, but not on the capabilities to support their combat use. Consequently, the fleet has limited air, surface, and underwater situational awareness capabilities, no AWACS aircraft, no manned reconnaissance aircraft, no UAVs, and no other means. This, of course, significantly complicates the timely detection of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and cruise missiles.

But in my opinion, the Black Sea Fleet is fully capable of overcoming the difficulties mentioned above. The key problem is the third one. The Black Sea Fleet has no way of interfering with the flights of NATO reconnaissance aircraft and UAVs, which immediately transmit information to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. NATO reconnaissance aircraft "map" the location of our forces and assets, after which it is easy to plot the routes of UAVs and missiles in a way that minimizes the risk of their early detection.


Clearly, the presence of NATO reconnaissance aircraft, which our armed forces have no right to destroy, completely changes the rules of the military game over the Black Sea. Under these conditions, to establish an A2AD zone, the Black Sea Fleet needs to establish 24/7 total control of the sea and air, but it lacks the necessary equipment to do so.

To understand the complexity of solving such a problem, let me remind the esteemed reader that the Americans, with all their aircraft carriers, satellites, and AWACS aircraft, somehow didn't manage to secure an A2/AD zone in the Strait of Hormuz: after all, it would never have occurred to them to allow anyone's reconnaissance aircraft to fly over them unhindered.

Task No. 3. Landing of troops


The objective is correct and important. But we must remember that a landing is not an end in itself, but a means to an end. And the question arises: what goals can we achieve by landing troops on a coast controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces?

In the old, albeit not so good, days of maneuver warfare, our military art viewed landings behind the enemy's coastal flank as part of a combined-arms operation to encircle part of the enemy's forces, or as a diversion, diverting the enemy's attention from the main attack on its defenses. But the problem is that today's warfare is no longer maneuverable. The Russian Armed Forces are slowly advancing, wearing down the enemy with the "thousand cuts" tactic. There are no large-scale encirclement operations. There are no massive ground strikes aimed at breaking through the front. So why should we land troops behind enemy lines?

Theoretically, a landing stretches the enemy's defense line, forcing them to withdraw their troops and send them to destroy or at least block the landing forces. But in practice, given the distances of the "death zones" that are currently provided along the line of combat contact, dronesIn order to ensure the effective operation of the landed troops on the bridgehead, which requires at least a relatively safe rear, the bridgehead should be expanded by many tens of kilometers in width and depth.


Capturing and holding such a bridgehead would require transporting a huge number of troops. And it's not enough to simply transport and land them; they also need to be supplied, which will become an extremely complex problem given the massive use of UAVs. And there's a huge risk of expending more resources and suffering greater losses than inflicting on the enemy.

The conclusion from the above is very simple: in the current realities of the Air Defense Forces, amphibious assault has temporarily lost its significance and will likely cause far more problems and losses to the landing side than to the defending side. We certainly don't need this. And it can be assumed that the Navy is not conducting amphibious operations not because it can't, but because amphibious operations have temporarily lost their former effectiveness.

Task No. 4. Striking enemy ground forces and infrastructure facilities


Modern naval forces are fully capable of accomplishing such missions in the context of fleet-versus-shore combat operations. Such strikes are carried out by naval aviation, cruise missiles, and, if possible, naval artillery.

The Black Sea Fleet has done this before and continues to do so: its aircraft are engaged in combat and strikes against the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Many targets have been "calibrated" from our ships launching missiles from the Black Sea.

But the whole point here is that Kalibr missiles have a very long range, so they don't necessarily need to be used from a ship already at sea. A Kalibr missile could just as easily be launched from a naval base pier or from a small missile ship in the Sea of ​​Azov. Consequently, sending ships out to sea to fire cruise missiles is simply irrational today, and the money spent on launching them could be spent more effectively.

Naval aviation continues to fight against the Ukrainian Armed Forces today, but, unlike the operations of the naval surface and submarine forces, its activities are not as noticeable to the esteemed reader.

Task No. 5. Interruption of enemy shipping


A naval blockade is a crucial task for a navy in any armed conflict. Regardless of how you look at it, the lion's share of international trade is carried by sea. A naval blockade not only hinders the import of military goods but also has a significant impact on the country's budget, limiting the shipment of goods abroad and, consequently, foreign exchange earnings.

Unfortunately, the Black Sea Fleet is not implementing a naval blockade of the Ukrainian coast. But can this be held against the fleet? Of course not. The problem is that the decision to impose a blockade is made not at the fleet command level, but at the level of the country's top leadership. And our president has not made such a decision.

Why? The fact is that a naval blockade of Ukrainian shipping is quite complex, as Odesa, for example, is located very close to Romanian territorial waters. A vessel flying the flag of a neutral country, navigating along the coast, can very quickly cover the distance between Romania's maritime border and Odesa.

Accordingly, from the Bosphorus to the border of Ukraine's territorial waters, such a vessel is sailing through foreign territorial waters, where our warships have no right to enter or inspect it. And for the short stretch of Ukrainian waters, the merchant vessel is, again, sailing along the Ukrainian coast. And if our ships were to sail there, they would sooner rather than later be caught in a missile ambush—under attack by coastal anti-ship missile launchers. This is dangerous, as even the most modern frigate's ability to withstand a massive missile attack is extremely limited.


And again, to those who are ready to lament the imperfection of the air and missile defense system of our frigates, I would like to remind you that American destroyers, being much larger and carrying much more weapons, are not at all eager to parade in the immediate vicinity of the Iranian coast.

Therefore, a blockade of the Ukrainian coast is, of course, possible... But within the framework of, so to speak, unrestricted naval warfare, when the given area will be declared a combat zone and any ships in it will be destroyed—without prior inspection.

This is entirely possible, but it would be an escalation of the conflict. Our leadership now has a completely different foreign policy direction: at all levels, it strives to demonstrate its ability to negotiate and its readiness for a peace that takes Russia's interests into account.

It's certainly worth considering whether this is the right position, whether it will lead us to success, or whether it would be more appropriate to demonstrate strength and resolve, following the example of Iran. But since this is precisely the official policy of the Russian Federation, the Black Sea Fleet, of course, cannot, by the will of its command, take actions that run counter to it. And the fleet is not blocking Ukrainian shipping—it simply has no right to do so.

Today, the Russian Armed Forces have intensified attacks on Ukrainian port infrastructure. The logic here is clear: we are attempting to disrupt Ukraine's maritime communications not by destroying shipping vessels, but by disrupting Ukraine's ability to receive and dispatch these vessels. This decision is consistent with the foreign policy of our country's leadership, as it does not endanger foreign merchant vessels. On the other hand, it is doubtful that this objective can be achieved without carpet bombing of ports, which our Air Force, for obvious reasons, is unable to accomplish.

Conclusions


The Black Sea Fleet has found itself in a strategic mirror world. It can't engage an enemy fleet because there's no such fleet. It can't establish zonal dominance in its waters because it doesn't have permission to harass NATO aircraft and UAVs conducting reconnaissance for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. It can't launch amphibious landings because the realities of the Northern Military District condemn troops in a limited beachhead to unnecessary losses. It's possible that conditions for an amphibious operation will arise at some point, but for now, they're not visible. The fleet rarely launches missiles against Ukrainian Armed Forces infrastructure because these missiles are cheaper to launch from other launch vehicles. The fleet can't establish a naval blockade of Ukraine's coast because it lacks the authorization of the country's top leadership.

Despite a number of significant shortcomings, our Black Sea Fleet is a formidable instrument of naval warfare. And it's not its fault that the military realities of the Central Military District and the political course of the country's leadership prevent us from using this instrument in an armed conflict.

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  1. + 33
    21 July 2026 04: 29
    Criticism also stems from the fact that the Black Sea Fleet cannot even defend itself from drones and back-up missiles, which can be shot down or destroyed with light machine guns or, in some cases, water cannons. They allow for the detonation of a submersible back-up missile near a submarine at the pier. Enemy video surveillance from the building opposite the pier indicates the extent of enemy penetration into the Black Sea Fleet. Moscow's completely unnecessary loss (what was it doing there? Who sent it there?)
    1. -6
      21 July 2026 04: 35
      In general, absolutely everyone, from the Georgians and clockwise to the Ukrainians, doesn't need a strong Russia on the Black Sea, and it seems like the Black Sea Fleet doesn't need one either
    2. + 32
      21 July 2026 05: 10
      SF (Northern Fleet) - "Superfleet".
      POF (Pacific Fleet) - "Also a fleet."
      Black Sea Fleet (BSF) - "Whether a fleet or not a fleet."
      BF (Baltic Fleet) - "Former Fleet".
      1. + 21
        21 July 2026 08: 18
        Because any fleet in the confined waters of a small sea, open to fire from the shore, by definition won't survive long in combat. Because from the shore, it's possible to overwhelm any naval air defense system. Especially now with the development of drones. Let's say a frigate has 64 air defense cells, though in reality, there are fewer. Two cells guarantee a target's destruction—32 in total. What's the problem with launching 40 drones at it? And that's the end of the ship. And 40 drones are significantly cheaper than a frigate. Besides, how long does it take to make 40 drones? And how long does it take to build a new frigate, especially here? So, it's a sad story...
        1. -7
          21 July 2026 08: 50
          Ships have close-in defense in the form of AK-100 artillery mounts and similar systems. If these rapid-fire mounts were equipped with canister shot, no drones or unmanned aerial vehicles would be a threat... but they are said to be quickly inoperable. If they fired canister shot at a range of 500 meters at a rate of 60 rounds per minute, it would be possible to destroy incoming and approaching targets even by ear, even without a fire control system, creating a continuous cloud of canister shot along the front and at an altitude of 200-400 meters.
          1. +2
            21 July 2026 09: 20
            Well, I'm talking about the current state of affairs. Who knows what they'll come up with next? Maybe they'll even invent some kind of positron emitter.
            1. +1
              23 July 2026 01: 54
              A force field, what's the point of being petty. )
          2. +3
            21 July 2026 09: 26
            In general, I have a feeling we'll have to return to the armament scheme of the battleships of the sailing fleet. In a new way: containers with launchers amidships and numerous powerful rapid-fire artillery along the sides, preferably in sponsons. Because anti-aircraft missiles are simply insufficient, and one or two guns can't cover the entire area.
            1. +3
              22 July 2026 03: 05
              We could go back to anti-mine nets right now. It might even help.
          3. +4
            21 July 2026 11: 03
            The problem isn't the ship's ability to destroy such simple and easy-to-hit targets, but their timely detection. Their radars (light UAVs) have difficulty detecting them due to their low radar cross-section, approach to the target during WWI, and low speed (the Doppler radar's cutoff speed). Furthermore, a ship's onboard radar can't operate continuously; it requires maintenance and operational stops. A thermal imaging radar and the presence of airborne AWACS, which are few and far between, are helpful here. We need tethered AWACS balloons (I won't even mention airships) near bases and as part of a layered detection system for targets during WWI, at least at a range of 200-300 km.
            The main guns of our frigates and corvettes are quite capable of using precisely these types of projectiles in air defense and are quite effective not only against UAVs but also against cruise missiles. The issue is timely detection and target designation. Furthermore, NATO intelligence, which constantly monitors our naval bases and ships at sea, is always aware when a ship turns off its radar on schedule or for routine maintenance. Then an attack follows, if it has the means at hand.
            These are, of course, the navy's own problems. These problems arose and can only be solved with the participation of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, which alone can allocate resources and funds for this, and assign tasks to design bureaus and industry. You can't win a war by lying on your side.

            It turns out that isolating Odessa ports from sea shipments can be done with ordinary drones like the Geranium-2, Geranium-4, and especially the Geranium-5 (with a more powerful warhead). A political decision was enough, and transports carrying weapons, supplies, and used grain would go up in flames.
            1. VlK
              +5
              21 July 2026 14: 22
              How can a base's air defense be tied to the radar of a single ship, while at sea it should be part of a formation, or at least not hang around idle in one area for a long time?
              In open sea conditions, with its distances and characteristic terrain, modern drones still present targets similar to those of self-propelled mines and airplanes from World War I. Why our navy is so poor at countering such targets is a real question. But remember the pre-war articles on naval air defense by M. Klimov and A. Timokhin on this website about the naval command's blatant reluctance to test these systems in a manner even remotely resembling real threats? Perhaps the answer lies somewhere there.
              1. + 10
                21 July 2026 20: 19
                Quote: VlK
                How can the air defense of a base be tied to the radar of one ship, but at sea it should be part of a formation?

                Remember the old movie "Solo Voyage"? We only have two frigates at the World Cup, and the Moskva cruiser had only one on its last radar patrol. And it had a non-functional short-range air defense system. There are currently only two Project 11356 frigates in the Black Sea, and the third is somewhere in the Baltic. And they don't go to sea—they have nothing to do there, there are no enemy ships there, but there are plenty of unmanned aerial vehicles and attack drones. The other ships have no air defense at all, even if it's a reasonable one, except for one Karakurt with a Pantsir-ME.

                Quote: VlK
                In the conditions of the open sea with its distances and characteristic "terrain relief"

                Well, I am a former air defense officer and a specialist in long-range radar. But these issues have long been discussed and rehashed in hundreds of threads, including with Timokhin and Klimov, including on this site. If the fleet has no ships, and the ships lack modern air defense systems, or have problematic radars for detecting targets in the water layer, what can we talk about? If there are no AWACS systems to ensure continuous air surveillance, then why waste time? That's how the Russian Federation prepared its Army and Navy for war. And you can't build a fleet during a war. Plus, the novelty of new weapons. It's new for everyone. There are plenty of targets, they're cheap. So they hit them with small arms, because SAMs are in short supply, and they're developing UAV interceptors. Look at the behavior of the US Navy off the Iranian coast. Their ships, and their quality, are incomparable to our shells in the World Cup. To have a Navy, you have to build it. And if you haven't built one, then there's no point in asking, "Where's the Navy?" Instead of combat ships, they built 22160 "pleasure ships." We don't have a Navy at the World Cup, we have a composite naval group. And we don't need one in the current war. We certainly don't need it in this form. The Ground Forces are fighting.
                1. +1
                  21 July 2026 21: 29
                  Instead of warships, they built "pleasure" ships 22160
                  However, these pleasure craft are credited with destroying 22160 more BEKs than any other ship in the Black Sea Fleet.
                  1. 0
                    21 July 2026 22: 19
                    If you want to live, you won't spread yourself like that. This is self-defense against... BOATS. Put machine guns on the sides and sailors to operate them, and that's your solution. You want to live, after all. And it can't really do anything else - it's slow, its seaworthiness is poor, it has almost no armament, but it does have a large helicopter deck and a whole "basketball arena" underneath it, perfect for holding banquets. Well, that's just the way they are.
                2. 0
                  22 July 2026 07: 49
                  ...We don't have a fleet for the World Cup...

                  No ships? I disagree! The Black Sea Fleet's problem is the lack of a thoughtful naval command and the lack of desire on the part of Russia's political leadership to use its ships for military purposes.
                  1. +4
                    22 July 2026 09: 18
                    The problem with the Black Sea Fleet is that it's not a navy at all. Not even a flotilla. In terms of composition, age, combat capabilities, and balance. Moreover, in today's conditions, it's practically useless, other than launching cruise missiles from a pier and its large missile systems at ground targets, which could be done from ground-based launch pads. And even the most brilliant leadership of the Black Sea Fleet won't save it. If there's no navy, then there isn't one. It wasn't built, and at this stage of the Air Defense Forces, there's no need for one.
                    Quote: Apis1962
                    the lack of desire on the part of the Russian political leadership to use ships to solve military problems.

                    Where would they be used, and what kind of ships are they? Deploy them like the "Moscow" at Zmeiny Island? They've already done that. They even tried maintaining a garrison at Zmeiny Island; do you think it's worth repeating? Or should they take the ships out to roam the sea? It's small, easily visible and fire-resistant, and there are no enemy ships at sea. Interrupt Ukrainian maritime supply traffic through the territorial waters of Romania and Bulgaria, fending off cruise missiles, drones, and unmanned aerial vehicles? That's what cheap Geran missiles are doing now, knocking out supply ships. And they're succeeding. Cheap and nasty. And there's no point in ships being there.
                    1. VlK
                      +2
                      22 July 2026 11: 08
                      The navy isn't just ships. Control of waters is its proper mission, not the Aerospace Forces' or the ground forces' with their Geraniums. For example, they write that unmanned combat aircraft were detected in the staging area, but for some reason they are destroyed near their bases and ports with Lancets. But where's the naval aviation? Same with the bridge in Zatoka: 1-2-3-10 of our unmanned combat aircraft from the sea hit its supports, and it's gone for a long time. But where are they after the mentioned one-time use?
                      1. +3
                        22 July 2026 11: 57
                        Quote: VlK
                        but where are they after the stated one-time use?

                        They're probably intercepted/destroyed by on-duty fire teams. A UAV in the air to monitor approaches and a standard FPV camera for interception are sufficient. We're not the only ones who've learned this.
                        Quote: VlK
                        For example, they write that BEKs were discovered in the holding area, but for some reason they are destroyed near their bases and ports with the help of Lancets, but where is the naval aviation?

                        So it didn't make it in time, it was moved further away, and the flight took longer. And delivering the Lancet on the Orion's pods also takes time. It's not very fast, so by the time they lift it off and get it there, the unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) are already on their way. This happens, too. After they started mounting MANPADS and old MD missiles on the UAVs, after they shot down at least one helicopter and one Su-30SM... they're trying not to use aircraft to intercept them, leaving that task to unmanned aircraft.
                        Why they fight like this is not my question. Many know how to fight, but others make the decisions. During the conflict, not a single high-ranking member of the Kyiv gang was harmed. Not a single one. This is not a mistake or a shortcoming, it is a "firm stance." But the Ukrainian Armed Forces have already served over 2,5 million people and are very proud of it. And they have many of their own. And this is also a firm stance.
                      2. VlK
                        0
                        22 July 2026 13: 47
                        They are probably intercepted/destroyed by fire teams on duty. UAVs in the air to monitor approaches and regular FPV for interception are sufficient. We're not the only ones who have learned this.

                        I attribute this more to the fact that Starlink terminals in the used territory are whitelisted. But that's my personal opinion, not supported by any evidence. Perhaps you're right.
                      3. +5
                        23 July 2026 00: 18
                        The Zatoka Bridge is an epic disgrace for the Air Defense Forces, a five-year-long sham! And it was the Navy that was primarily trying to destroy it (correct me if I'm wrong). And where are the results? The Kalibr missiles simply flew right through the bridge's delicate metal trusses—no conclusions were drawn (they should have changed the fuses, made them 1-2 meter-long contact fuse arms that open in front of the target, like the "spikes" of a naval mine). They're attacking the bridge with Geranium missiles, although I'm sure everyone understands that this is simply a sham, a sham (the same as the Ukrainian Armed Forces' attacks with helicopter-launched unguided rockets from behind the front lines—obviously, it's lucky if one out of 20 hits the Ukrainians...). But the Geranium attacks on this bridge are repeated, and the media, with a smart look and enthusiasm, praise these attacks: https://lenta.ru/news/2026/06/08/stalo-izvestno-ob-udare-vs-rossii-po-strategicheskomu-mostu-v-odesskoy-oblasti/
                        https://www.kp.ru/daily/277789.4/5261162/

                        Meanwhile, the guided-missile cruiser Moskva was circling Zmeiny Island in April 2022. Its primary missile armament is 16 P-1000 Vulcan missiles with a range of 700-1000 km, 500 kg of explosives in each warhead, and the ability to be remotely guided at the final stage (by the ship's operator using data from the missile's radar). Why didn't they destroy the bridge at Zatoka with two or three of these missiles? What's the problem?

                        I don't think the problem is even in the navy, but rather higher—the elite is playing with humanism, "international law," and other UN precepts. When a country lacks its own ideology, and instead embraces Western humanism (supposedly "universal"), the country's elite can't even really define: what are we fighting for? What are we willing to do to win?
                      4. VlK
                        +1
                        23 July 2026 12: 31
                        I don't think the problem is even in the navy, but rather higher—the elite is playing with humanism, "international law," and other UN precepts. When a country lacks its own ideology, and instead embraces Western humanism (supposedly "universal"), the country's elite can't even really define: what are we fighting for? What are we willing to do to win?

                        I don't think humanism has anything to do with it. Our VPR is consistently adhering to the strategy it chose from the very beginning of the SVO: pressuring us to strike a deal on acceptable terms; the rest is just rhetoric. The reluctance to escalate anything internationally stems from the same source. Victory, as you can see, doesn't fit into this at all—they probably don't know what to do with it after taking control of a bankrupt country with a ruined economy and a population extremely embittered toward us, plus they want to preserve as many opportunities as possible in global trade for our export-import-oriented economy, which they themselves built. That's the thinking.
                      5. 0
                        24 July 2026 03: 00
                        You may be right, but all of this is being cloaked in humanism from above. Could you give me a typical example?
                        Here it is, the most striking example:
                        Clearly, there were constant orders from above to take all the energy supplies to the Ukrainians in the middle of winter—and the Russian Armed Forces have already missed three winters: 22/23, 23/24, 24/25!! They only tried in the winter of 25/26, but they got off to a late start.
                        This delay in the removal of Ukraine's energy sector occurred thanks to the humanism of the Supreme Commander, which he without any embarrassment calmly says:
                        http://special.kremlin.ru/catalog/countries/BY/events/73852

                        «In the energy sector, unfortunately, we have recently seen a series of attacks on our energy facilities and have been forced to respond. I want to emphasize: even based on humanitarian considerations, we did not carry out any strikes in the winter. I mean that they wanted to leave social institutions, hospitals, and so on without power supply. But after a series of attacks on our energy facilities, we were forced to respond»
                    2. +3
                      23 July 2026 19: 21
                      ...Display it as "Moscow" near Zmeiny Island.
                      ...even the most brilliant leadership of the Black Sea Fleet won't save us here...

                      Were these "geniuses" the ones who gave the order to deploy the "Moskva" to establish an air defense umbrella near Zmeinoye, or was someone else planning the landing operations in Mariupol? Perhaps some outsiders organized the naval base security system? No!
                      I regularly interact with naval officers—intelligent, educated, knowledgeable men. But they all unanimously decry the caste-based, nepotistic nature of the naval leadership.
                      1. +3
                        23 July 2026 19: 43
                        Quote: Apis1962
                        Everyone, without exception, curses the casteism and nepotism of the leadership of all fleets.

                        Well, that's what it is. The order to deploy the Moskva as a radar patrol station was given by the ground command. In the Russian Federation, after the reforms, fleets are subordinate to military districts. They are ruled by boots. And those are only fleets; in our case, even the Aerospace Forces have been commanded by God knows how many tankers. But the Aerospace Forces aren't just aviation, but also air defense and space forces; they need specific expertise and subtle specialists, not drill inspectors. The war has exposed so many wounds and deformities... like the Augean stables.
          4. 0
            21 July 2026 19: 42
            Quote: Konnick
            Ships have close-range protection in the form of AK-100 artillery mounts and the like. If you equip these rapid-fire mounts with canister shots, then no BEKs or UAVs will be a threat...

            The problem is that the enemy will simply overload any ship's air defense.
            1. -2
              21 July 2026 20: 50
              What can you overload a gun with???
              1. +2
                21 July 2026 21: 01
                Quote: Konnick
                What can you overload a gun with???

                Quantity. Limited ammo, monstrous rate of fire, nothing new.
                1. -3
                  22 July 2026 08: 40
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Quote: Konnick
                  What can you overload a gun with???

                  Quantity. Limited ammo, monstrous rate of fire, nothing new.

                  The AK-100 patrol ships carry 350 rounds of ammunition...and what does the rate of fire have to do with it...buckshot can create a cloud of damaging elements with a diameter of 200 meters at a range of 500 meters
                  1. +1
                    22 July 2026 19: 46
                    Quote: Konnick
                    The AK-100 patrol ships have 350 rounds of ammunition...and what does the rate of fire have to do with it?

                    Will shoot quickly.
                    Quote: Konnick
                    create a cloud of damaging elements with a diameter of 200 meters at a range of 500 meters

                    And the enemy will come in two waves at a slightly greater distance.
        2. + 17
          21 July 2026 09: 50
          Observations show that no one overloaded the fleet's air defenses by sending out dozens of drones and missiles. It fled combat operations when drones were extremely rare—back in July 2022. After that, there were only occasional missile launches and that's it, zero activity.
          1. +3
            21 July 2026 10: 10
            Quote from alexoff
            He fled combat operations when drones were extremely rare – back in July 2022.

            In fact, the fleet left for Novorossiysk at the end of 2023.
            1. + 15
              21 July 2026 10: 18
              This isn't about abandoning the cozy Sevastopol Bay, but rather about withdrawing from the Northeast Military District—the fleet has switched to 2021 mode, pretending there's no war. Since August 2022, the fleet has been cooped up in the bays, and in 2023, it turned out it was incapable of defending the bays from boats—who would have thought?
              1. -8
                21 July 2026 10: 42
                Quote from alexoff
                This isn't about abandoning the cozy bay of Sevastopol, but about withdrawing from the North Atlantic War—the fleet has switched to 2021 mode and pretending there's no war.

                What was he supposed to do?:)))))
                1. + 12
                  21 July 2026 11: 40
                  Well, I don't know, what should we do? Weld machine guns onto the sides, bolt on heaters, and use the leadership's brains? Assemble a group, put sailors on deck with MANPADS, sail up to the bridge near Odessa, and demolish it with everything we have? Remind them that ships were hit one by one in the summer, floundering in the middle of the sea, while the command ignored reports that boats were massing nearby for half a day? Essentially, the fleet did nothing and lost a significant portion of its equipment without inflicting any damage on the enemy. It could have sold itself for a higher price, but apparently the learned helplessness mode got in the way.
                  1. -5
                    21 July 2026 12: 02
                    Quote from alexoff
                    Well, I don't know, something?

                    That's exactly it - you don't know. When you come up with something, let's discuss it.
                    Quote from alexoff
                    swim up to the bridge near Odessa and demolish it with everything you have?

                    What do you mean "everyone"? The navy has no anti-bridge capabilities other than cruise missiles, and to use them, you don't have to sail to Odessa.
                    1. +7
                      21 July 2026 13: 02
                      That's exactly it - you don't know.
                      I have a ton of ideas
                      When you come up with something, let's discuss it.
                      It turns out that my fellow admirals and I are on the same level - they don't know, I don't know, but for some reason admirals - they probably get a ton of perks at government expense fellow
                      What do you mean "everyone"? The navy has no anti-bridge capabilities other than cruise missiles, and to use them, you don't have to sail to Odessa.
                      Direct-fire naval artillery, mortar launchers, deploy a Hurricane on deck and fire a salvo directly at the bridge, load crates of dynamite onto a launch and send it straight for the bridge. Meanwhile, sailors with MANPADS, small anti-aircraft guns, and light machine guns will fire back at the incoming drones. It's easier to defend a ship during an attack than when a sailor is asleep and the ship is at the pier without a crew.
                      But we have learned helplessness—we know nothing, we can't do anything, even though we can still get paid! This, guys, is within my power; I'll hardly refuse now! feel
                      1. -4
                        21 July 2026 14: 06
                        Quote from alexoff
                        It turns out that my fellow admirals and I are of the same level

                        Yeah. If Einstein didn't know how to reach the speed of light, and you don't either, then you're on par with Einstein, right?
                      2. +5
                        21 July 2026 14: 51
                        Yeah. Since Einstein didn't know how to reach the speed of light, and you don't either, then you're on equal footing with Einstein, right?
                        In terms of reaching the speed of light, yes. So what can admirals do?
                    2. 0
                      21 July 2026 13: 49
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      What do you mean "everyone"? The navy has no anti-bridge weapons other than cruise missiles,

                      Naval artillery would probably be better than missiles, or at least no worse, provided the bridge could be targeted for a sufficient period of time. It's clear that the enemy would also be able to target the ship; the question is the need to destroy the target and plan such an operation, with all the attendant consequences (suppressing enemy artillery, distraction, and cover).
                      1. +1
                        21 July 2026 14: 04
                        Quote: bot.su
                        Naval artillery is probably better than rockets,

                        With what? :)))) The navy's largest weapon is the 100mm A-190 with HE shells. You could shell a major bridge with them until Lent, and it would probably collapse laughing...
                      2. -3
                        21 July 2026 14: 53
                        The navy's largest weapon is the 100mm A-190 with high-explosive shells. You could shell a major bridge with them until Lent, and it would probably collapse laughing...
                        The ship will release its ammunition in a short time. And we've seen how FPV drones can jam a bridge, although it would seem
                      3. +1
                        21 July 2026 16: 52
                        Quote from alexoff
                        The ship will release its ammunition in a short time. And we've seen how FPV drones can jam a bridge, although it would seem

                        You can plug it up—for a short time, damaging the canvas. But this is relatively quickly repaired.
                      4. +2
                        21 July 2026 19: 20
                        A ship can hit the supports. Besides, the bridge has a lifting mechanism; it doesn't need much. And there are plenty of options: while the ships are scurrying along the shore and firing at one part of the bridge, they can mine the other with saboteurs. They could even drag a barge with five tanks on deck—the enemy would be surprised! Although it's unlikely—they would have placed a Uragan on a barge and fired. But we can't do that—the navy doesn't have Uragans, nor combat barges, and since the navy operates under peacetime laws, the main thing is that everything is properly executed, not that the task is completed.
                      5. +1
                        21 July 2026 16: 36
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        How?:)))))

                        Rate of fire. I don't know about their accuracy, but a rate of fire of even 30% of maximum is enough to poke around even something as substantial as a bridge. Besides, the navy has the means to carry out a comprehensive attack—missiles, torpedoes, mines, they could also try to bring ships or boats loaded with explosives, and so on and so forth.
                        But as you indicated in the article, there was no task.
                    3. 0
                      21 July 2026 18: 42
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      What do you mean "everyone"? The navy has no anti-bridge capabilities other than cruise missiles, and to use them, you don't have to sail to Odessa.

                      Yes, the Northern Fleet in Crimea is full of old ships just rusting in the bays. They could have packed even one of those vessels with explosives and launched it at night, under a smokescreen, into a bridge, a bulk carrier, or a dock with infrastructure!
                    4. +2
                      23 July 2026 00: 22
                      There was no need to even sail to Odessa. In April 2022, the guided-missile cruiser Moskva was circling Zmeiny Island, and from that island to the bridge at Zatoka, it was only 90-95 km. For the P-1000 Vulcan cruise missiles (the cruiser carried 16 of them), with their range, speed, 500 kg of explosives, and terminal guidance based on remote control (by the ship's operator using data from the missile's radar), demolishing the bridge at Zatoka was NO PROBLEM.
                      1. +3
                        23 July 2026 08: 09
                        Have you noticed how touchingly tenderly we treat Ukrainian bridges? All of them, not just the ones in Odessa. It smells very much like a deal here.
                      2. VlK
                        +2
                        23 July 2026 12: 37
                        Ideally, to understand this, we should always look at the ownership structure of such sacred assets, or what they provide (and to whom) in the used economy. Most likely, it will turn out like what happened with the Kremenchug Oil Refinery, the largest in Ukraine, which suddenly ended up under the ownership of our esteemed partners from Azerbaijan, if I'm not mistaken. Then there will be fewer legitimate questions.
                      3. +3
                        23 July 2026 12: 51
                        Quote: VlK
                        Then there will be fewer fair questions)

                        I've run out of fair questions for a long time now. Just fair curses – but a lot...
                  2. -2
                    21 July 2026 19: 46
                    Quote from alexoff
                    Well, I don't know, something?

                    And why I'm not surprised.
                    Quote from alexoff
                    Let me remind you that in the summer the ships were hit one by one, splashing around in the middle of the sea, when the authorities

                    Guided by such advisers, they were sent "to do something."
                    Quote from alexoff
                    In fact, the fleet did nothing

                    Only strikes with cruise missiles.
                    Quote from alexoff
                    Observations show that no one overloaded the fleet's air defenses by sending out dozens of drones and missiles.

                    Observations show that this tactic was used with unmanned aerial vehicles. And if the command hadn't been smart enough to stop exposing ships to the elements in waters under fire, the same approach would have been taken with aerial drones.
                    1. -2
                      21 July 2026 21: 06
                      And why I'm not surprised.
                      I'm not surprised that you read in fragments.
                      Guided by such advisers, they were sent "to do something"
                      What should I do? Can you elaborate? Specifically for specific ships, without your usual nonsense?
                      Only strikes with cruise missiles.
                      Which can be launched from ground-based launchers? Although, how would you know, you don't have the facts?
                      Observations show that such tactics were used when using BECs.
                      Tell us the date when dozens of drones attacked the ship, we'll check.
                      And if the command hadn't had the sense to stop exposing ships as targets in a completely exposed water area, then it would have come to aerial drones too.
                      Aerial drones have been and continue to be flown. Apparently, something was missing. Perhaps your surprise
                      1. -1
                        21 July 2026 22: 40
                        Quote from alexoff
                        I'm not surprised that you read in fragments.

                        That is to say, he is right.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        What should I do? Can you elaborate? Specifically for specific ships, without your usual nonsense?

                        It is precisely because most of the losses were caused by the fact that ships were sent to sea for some unknown reason.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Tell us the date when dozens of drones attacked the ship, we'll check.

                        The Sergei Kotov fought off small groups of BEKs several times, but then a crowd of people attacked it and it was sunk.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Aerial drones have been and continue to arrive.

                        About the ships that were placed in the middle of the sea like targets at a shooting range? Where exactly?
                        Quote from alexoff
                        which can be launched from ground installations?

                        That is, the fact that the ships use their weapons cannot be disputed.
                      2. 0
                        22 July 2026 01: 21
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is right

                        That is, no, unfortunately I can't add more RAM to you so you can learn to read text, sorry, that's just the way you were born request
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It is precisely because most of the losses were caused by the fact that ships were sent to sea for some unknown reason.

                        And all because of the commentators, who would have thought! Only dart2007 laughing
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The Sergei Kotov fought off small groups of BEKs several times, but then a crowd of people attacked it and it was sunk.

                        What crowd? There were about five of them.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        About the ships that were placed in the middle of the sea like targets at a shooting range? Where exactly?

                        No, at the piers. The first minesweeper was in October 2022; it's been flying frequently around Novorossiysk these days. And the stupidest thing was when a jeep flew at a missile ship of the Caspian flotilla at the end of 2024, and they fired only at it with small arms.
                        The heaviest blow was from the large landing ship Novocherkassk, which stood at the pier for several days until the missiles arrived.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, the fact that the ships use their weapons cannot be disputed.

                        and how often do they use it and in what quantity?
                      3. -2
                        22 July 2026 19: 51
                        Quote from alexoff
                        that is, no, unfortunately
                        I'm right.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        and all because of the commentators, who would have thought!
                        That is, the fact that sending them to sea, as demanded by ignoramuses like alexoff, was stupidity is still clear.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        No, at the piers. The first minesweeper will arrive in October 2022; it's been flying in frequently around Novorossiysk these days.

                        So, the fact that ships within range of enemy drones and missiles require a significant amount of force for their defense is understandable. Why shouldn't they be sent to the enemy's shore, you can figure out for yourself?
                        Quote from alexoff
                        and how often do they use it and in what quantity?

                        Read the news, it's all there.
                      4. -1
                        22 July 2026 20: 46
                        I'm right
                        No, you're just a poorly educated person. Write in detail why you think you're right, and I'll justify it with an analysis of the text. I'm right, and you're wrong. Tell me again that I'm right and explain it in detail. Please obey.
                        That is, the fact that sending them to sea, as demanded by ignoramuses like alexoff, was stupidity is still clear.
                        So, for the brilliant Admiral Dart2007, the fleet isn't for the sea? What's it for? To stand at the pier? So what's the result?
                        So, the fact that ships within range of enemy drones and missiles require a significant amount of force for their defense is understandable. Why shouldn't they be sent to the enemy's shore, you can figure out for yourself?
                        How many ships sank near the enemy coast, and how many near ours? Are there any statistics? Here, I want them here, not in the news.
                        Read the news, it's all there.
                        that is, you don't know, I'm not surprised
                      5. -1
                        23 July 2026 19: 33
                        Quote from alexoff
                        No, you're simply uneducated. Write in detail why you think you're right, and I'll justify it with an analysis of the text. I'm right, and you're wrong.

                        Something you have never succeeded in doing.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        So, for the brilliant admiral Dart2007, the fleet is not for the sea?

                        That is, there is nothing to argue with the fact that the World Cup is a puddle that can be shot through and any ship becomes just a target.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        And how many ships sank near the enemy coast?

                        You were smart enough not to send him there.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        that is, you don't know, I'm not surprised

                        That is, alexoff (Alexander) is again trying to get off topic.
                        Quote from the 13th of this month.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Let's list all the strikes over the last six months.

                        Main confirmed strikes on 750 kV substations
                        The 750 kV Kyivskaya substation (February 2026) was attacked in a coordinated strike using missiles and drones. The facility connects major power generation facilities (including nuclear power) to the country's central regions.
                        The 750 kV Zakhidnoukrainska substation (February 2026) sustained critical damage. This hub is key for importing electricity from EU countries (via the transmission line to Hungary) and distributing power from the Rivne and Khmelnytskyi Nuclear Power Plants.
                        750 kV substation in the Zaporizhzhia region (January 2026) – at the beginning of the year, confirmation of successful arrivals at open switchgear units (OSGs) and autotransformer groups at substations in this region appeared on the network.
                        The 750 kV Vinnytsia substation (February 2026) was damaged during a series of airstrikes in February, which led to severe network restrictions in Right-Bank Ukraine.
                        After which alexoff (Alexander) immediately merged.
                        Before this, it was about the same, once again about substations, and the second time about bridges, but I’m too lazy to look.
                      6. -1
                        23 July 2026 20: 11
                        Something you have never succeeded in doing.
                        I'm waiting for an explanation from you. Or should I consider it a leak? Okay, I consider it a leak.
                        That is, there is nothing to argue with the fact that the World Cup is a puddle that can be shot through and any ship becomes just a target.
                        Where did this fact come from? Who proved it? You? Are you a military authority? I seriously doubt it.
                        You were smart enough not to send him there.
                        and lost near yours? How many did you lose? Is there a list?
                        That is, alexoff (Alexander) is again trying to get off topic.
                        That is, Dart2007 merged with the topic of the fleet's work results, but I merged laughing
                        Quote from the 13th of this month.
                        And that's it? Twice in winter? And not long ago, satellite images showed that the Kyiv transformer was intact.

                        So, what are the results of the fleet's work? Or have they been a complete waste?
                      7. -1
                        23 July 2026 20: 26
                        Quote from alexoff
                        I'm waiting for an explanation from you.
                        So again there is nothing to say.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Where did this fact come from? Who proved it? You? Are you a military authority?
                        Can't find the range of modern missiles, UAVs, and unmanned aerial vehicles yourself?
                        Quote from alexoff
                        and lost near yours?
                        So? I don't recall writing that this didn't happen. Do you have anything to say about what will happen off the enemy coast?
                        Quote from alexoff
                        i.e
                        That is, alexoff (Alexander) is again trying to get off topic.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        And that's it? Twice in winter?
                        Can't count to ten? It happens.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        So, the results of the fleet's work.


                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Read the news, everything is there.
                      8. -1
                        23 July 2026 21: 55
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So again there is nothing to say.

                        It's obvious that you have nothing, as usual I was right
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Can't find the range of modern missiles, UAVs, and unmanned aerial vehicles yourself?

                        The range of missiles, drones, and boats is no less than that of the Black Sea Fleet's missiles. Does that mean it's basically incapable of combat? After all, if the puddle were the size of the Pacific Ocean, it would go beyond the range of drones, missiles, and back-up missiles, and calibers wouldn't reach it? Oh, and the question is: why are pilots and regular soldiers heading toward the LBS instead of running toward Abkhazia? After all, they become targets, and to avoid being a target, according to Dart2007's logic, you have to run as far as possible. fool
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So? I don't recall writing that this didn't happen. Do you have anything to say about what will happen off the enemy coast?

                        So, in fact, it doesn't matter whether the fleet is in Sevastopol or on the enemy coast; it's dangerous everywhere. However, in Sevastopol, it doesn't perform a combat mission; it just sits there. In other words, it remains useless. The sea is in the way.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, alexoff (Alexander) is again trying to get off topic.

                        no, go ahead
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Can't count to ten? It happens.

                        Basically, they were just hitting for show, like they were hitting bridges. What was the extent of the damage?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Read the news, everything is there.

                        Should I look for evidence for you? Should I count it as a leak? Since I need to save you, and I don't plan to lol
                      9. -1
                        23 July 2026 22: 36
                        Quote from alexoff
                        It's obvious that you have nothing
                        As usual, I turned out to be right.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        the range of missiles, drones and boats is not less than the range of the Black Sea Fleet missiles. This means
                        All that's required of him is to fire missiles without exposing himself to enemy fire. Which is exactly what he does.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        that is, in fact, it doesn’t matter whether the fleet is in Sevastopol or on the enemy coast, it’s dangerous everywhere, though in Sevastopol it is
                        carries out a combat mission without putting oneself in harm's way.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Overall
                        You have nothing to say, you don't know how to count. And the idea that there is such a thing as repair is too complicated for you.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Should I look for evidence for you?
                        So there's nothing to say. Read the news.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        no, go ahead
                        That is, alexoff (Alexander) is again trying to get off topic.
                      10. -1
                        24 July 2026 17: 39
                        As usual, I turned out to be right.
                        No, at all, do you have a list of universal phrases there?
                        All he has to do is fire missiles
                        Are the fleet's missions unknown to you? I'm not surprised.
                        without exposing himself to the enemy's attacks. What is he
                        it doesn't, because the puddle is shot right through
                        performs a combat mission
                        What mission? Protect shipping? No. Blockade enemy ports, sink enemy ships? No. It doesn't function as a navy; most of the remaining ships don't carry calibers.
                        You have nothing to say, you don't know how to count. And the idea that there is such a thing as repair is too complicated for you.
                        What's the extent of the damage? Near-zero. Or provide proof?
                        So there's nothing to say. Read the news.
                        Yes, I understand that you have nothing to say, they're already writing about it in the news, you have to be able to sit in a puddle and tell what's not in a puddle
                        That is, alexoff (Alexander) is again trying to get off topic.
                        No, I'm here, so what next? Dropping the topic, being surprised by the news, or any of your other generic, unsupported responses? Where do you even have a single link? None, it's a drop. Write that I dropped the topic, be a good little dog. wink
                      11. -1
                        24 July 2026 17: 49
                        Quote from alexoff
                        No, at all, do you have a list of universal phrases there?
                        That is to say, he is right.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Are the fleet's tasks unknown to you?
                        What task? Protecting shipping? No. Blockading enemy ports, sinking enemy ships? No.
                        Read the article
                        Quote from alexoff
                        doesn't do
                        because it is positioned to make it as difficult as possible for enemy forces to defeat it.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        What's the extent of the damage? Near-zero. Or provide proof?
                        Provide evidence that the degree of damage was close to zero.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Yes, I realized that you have nothing to say.
                        So I'm right again.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        No, I'm here, so what next?
                        Dropping the topic and being surprised by the news is typical alexoff (Alexander) behavior.
                      12. -1
                        24 July 2026 22: 14
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is to say, he is right.

                        I'm right
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Read the article

                        What kind of nonsense is this? Read the Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of July 20, 2017, No. 327, "On Approval of the Fundamentals of the State Policy of the Russian Federation in the Field of Naval Activities for the Period up to 2030"—it spells out the purpose of the navy. An article on a random website can contain any kind of nonsense.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        because it is positioned to make it as difficult as possible for enemy forces to defeat it.

                        without fulfilling their tasks and suffering losses. The puddle is exposed to fire.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Provide evidence that the degree of damage was close to zero.

                        Provide proof that the defeat is complete.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So I'm right again.

                        that is, there is no proof and there won't be
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Dropping the topic and being surprised by the news is typical alexoff (Alexander) behavior.

                        Telling imaginary news stories, attributing your fantasies to someone else, and talking about your own infallibility without any proof is typical Dart2007 behavior.

                        So, what do you do for a living? High-ranking, a lover of panaceas and justifications for all management actions?
                      13. -1
                        25 July 2026 07: 15
                        Quote from alexoff
                        I'm right
                        I am.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        What kind of nonsense is this? Read the decree.
                        Very interesting, now read the article.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Provide proof that the defeat is complete.
                        Well, so you started to claim it, so show it.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        i.e
                        I'm right again
                        Quote from alexoff
                        story about
                        Imaginary news, attributing one's fantasies to someone else, and stories about one's own infallibility without any proof are typical behavior of alexoff (Alexander).
                      14. 0
                        25 July 2026 15: 41
                        I am.

                        I'm right
                        Very interesting, now read the article.
                        That is, there is nothing to object to in response to the fact that the fleet is not fulfilling the duties assigned to it by the high command, only an article on a website where any user can post an article.
                        Well, so you started to claim it, so show it.
                        You started claiming that they were amazed - well, show me.
                        I'm right again
                        you're in a puddle again
                        Imaginary news, attributing one's fantasies to someone else, and stories about one's own infallibility without any proof are typical behavior of alexoff (Alexander).
                        The news I'm supposed to read won't appear, so Dart2007 has nothing to say. You also have nothing to say about the Navy adopting the Upper Lars strategy of running away from war. You also have nothing to say about the Navy's complete surprise at the enemy's possession of cruise missiles, invented 70 years ago. You also have nothing to say about the fact that slow-moving aircraft and exploding boats, used in war for a hundred years, except now they're radio-controlled and not with a Japanese inside, pose an unavoidable threat to the Black Sea Fleet. So, as usual, you've shrunk to childish teasing, links to articles by unknown sources, and obscure news. Copy and paste this and attribute it to me, be an obedient dog, confirm that I'm right, and you have nothing to say. wink
                      15. -1
                        25 July 2026 16: 52
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Я
                        I'm right
                        Quote from alexoff
                        that is, to object to the fact that the fleet is not fulfilling the duties assigned to it by the high command
                        Please provide a link to how the high command accuses the navy of failing to fulfill its duties.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        again
                        you're in a puddle
                        Quote from alexoff
                        you started to claim that
                        Now prove it.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        news I should read
                        Well then, read on.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        You also have nothing to say in response to that
                        The World Cup is being shot through and through. So, as usual, you've shrunk to childish teasing, links to articles by nobodies, and obscure news. Copy and paste this and attribute it to me, be an obedient little dog, prove that I'm right and you have nothing to say in response.
                      16. -1
                        26 July 2026 07: 25
                        I'm right
                        I'm right
                        Please provide a link to how the high command accuses the navy of failing to fulfill its duties.
                        So, the author's nonsense about the fleet's goals is no longer refuted. Moreover, you yourself came up with excuses for the fleet, claiming it's nothing more than a coastal missile system and can't do anything else.
                        Well then, read on.
                        Are you ready to argue forever without providing links? Because there aren't any?
                        The World Cup is being shot through
                        The European part of Russia is completely under fire, but that doesn't stop the guys from fighting in the LBS. That doesn't stop the Marines from fighting. But for some reason, the Navy can't fight.

                        Now prove it.
                        You must prove it, the burden is on the one who makes the assertion.

                        So, one more message, and I'll summarize everything you've written, and we'll thoroughly dissect your shameful leaks. Be a good dog, don't send any proof; it'll be easier for me to attach you.
                      17. 0
                        26 July 2026 10: 15
                        Quote from alexoff
                        I'm right
                        I'm right
                        Quote from alexoff
                        that is nonsense that the fleet's goals
                        Please provide a link to how the high command accuses the navy of failing to fulfill its duties.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Are you ready to argue forever but not provide links?
                        That is, you don’t want to read.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        The European part of Russia is being shot through, but that doesn't stop the guys from fighting.
                        charge into machine guns with bayonets. Can we see examples?
                        Quote from alexoff
                        You must prove it, the burden is on the one who makes the assertion.
                        Now go ahead and prove your claims.
                        So, one more message, and I'll summarize everything you've written, and we'll thoroughly dissect your shameful leaks. Be a good dog, don't send any proof; it'll be easier for me to attach you.
                2. + 12
                  21 July 2026 11: 55
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  What was he supposed to do?:)))))
                  Isn't the issue really the navy, or those who don't even know how to use it? I've heard opinions that if they woke up after eight years, recognizing the Kyiv regime as the "choice of the Ukrainian people" and the integrity of Ukraine, they shouldn't have launched a "psychological attack" on Kyiv, but rather quickly seized Kharkiv and Odesa. Our Black Sea Fleet was sorely needed to seize Odesa and control the entire Black Sea. They should have allowed the Ukrainian Armed Forces to strengthen, cleansed out pro-Russian forces, and sent columns to Kyiv, immediately rushing to Istanbul to negotiate. Is this sabotage or stupidity?
                  1. 0
                    21 July 2026 12: 03
                    Quote: Per se.
                    I've heard opinions that if they woke up after 8 years, recognizing the Kyiv regime as the "choice of the Ukrainian people" and the integrity of Ukraine, they should not have carried out a "psychological attack" on Kyiv, but rather quickly seized Kharkiv and Odessa.

                    Again, the issue is far beyond the competence of the Black Sea Fleet; such operations are not planned at its level.
                    1. +2
                      21 July 2026 12: 22
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      It's not at his level to plan such operations.

                      I am not saying that this is only the navy’s business, but the navy is part of the Russian armed forces, and it could and should have been used for victory.
          2. -1
            21 July 2026 14: 20
            Let us already understand that in the process of improvement, the sword regularly overtakes the shield.
            And now not only BEKs, but also hypersonic anti-ship missiles and gliding ballistic missiles with special warheads can destroy ANY fleet in waters like the Black Sea.
            Incidentally, this includes any US strike group. That's precisely why a strike group won't enter such waters until the coastal defenses are suppressed. And if the defenses are suppressed, what's the point of a strike group there?
            It turns out that the Black Sea Fleet simply does not have any tasks that it is capable of performing (or that it is advisable for the fleet to perform).
            1. +6
              21 July 2026 14: 56
              And now it’s not just BECs
              Boats loaded with explosives are a threat on par with World War II, the only difference being that back then, there was a Japanese youth sitting there. And the Americans quickly figured out how to deal with it.
              hypersonic anti-ship missiles and gliding missile units of special warheads
              The VSUs don't have any like that, but ours are already huddled in a corner
              1. -3
                21 July 2026 15: 31
                The VSUs don't have any like that, but ours are already huddled in a corner

                Why not sit at the base if there is no combat order?
                Why risk ships if the order can be carried out from the pier?
                1. -2
                  21 July 2026 15: 53
                  Why not sit at the base if there is no combat order?
                  And who's supposed to give it? Do our admirals get punished for proactive proposals?
                  Why risk ships if the order can be carried out from the pier?
                  Well, if the order is to stand at the pier and wait for it to land...
                  1. -1
                    21 July 2026 18: 35
                    and who should give it?

                    We have one Supreme Commander-in-Chief.
                    Do our admirals get punished for proactive proposals?

                    The admirals did not experiment on themselves, but the generals are punished.
                    Some are sent to Africa, and some are imprisoned.
                    1. 0
                      22 July 2026 07: 59
                      And some are sent to Syria, and they show such outstanding results there that even Trump laughs publicly.
        3. +6
          21 July 2026 10: 27
          Because any fleet in the confined waters of a small sea, which is open to fire from the shore, by definition will not survive long in the event of military action.
          I've come up with a solution to all the Black Sea Fleet's problems: move it to the Caspian! What's the point of it being in the Black Sea if they won't let it fight?! Or even worse, sell it to Iran, where they'll find a use for it. At the very least, to fire Kalibr missiles at American military bases.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 11: 10
            No—it's just that a navy on such seas needs to be different. There's no room there for large, expensive warships. Their realm is the ocean, where it's extremely difficult to dispatch an armada of cheap drones against them.
            1. +1
              21 July 2026 12: 03
              Quote: paul3390
              an armada of cheap drones on them
              Perhaps we should be fighting "hornets' nests" rather than "flies"? Under the USSR, the Black Sea Fleet solved many problems, not only in the Black Sea, but also in the Mediterranean and the Atlantic. What do the bourgeois gentlemen need a navy for? They'd rather sell raw materials and export their profits. Our "best years" are friendship with the West, but that's the best "friendship" of a pig and its butcher, when it's being fattened.
            2. +1
              21 July 2026 15: 54
              Well, there is no place there for large and expensive warships.
              We don't have any of those there after April 2022. request
          2. +1
            21 July 2026 19: 49
            Quote: AKuzenka
            At least hit American military bases with Kalibr missiles.

            Now they are firing calibers at the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
          3. +1
            21 July 2026 22: 36
            Quote: AKuzenka
            I have a solution to all the Black Sea Fleet's problems - move it to the Caspian Sea!

            To begin with, move the entire command of the Black Sea Fleet, but to the Caspian Sea, and to the Bering Strait, command the traditional Chukchi canoes.
        4. -1
          21 July 2026 14: 12
          Because any fleet in the confined waters of a small sea, which is open to fire from the shore, by definition will not survive long in the event of military action.

          That's it.
        5. -1
          21 July 2026 15: 01
          What a dreamer you are. What's the problem with launching 40 drones at a ship? Actually, it's a problem. Not just launching them, but having them attack the ship simultaneously from different directions. A so-called star strike. Which is highly unlikely. And anyway, drones aren't supersonic anti-ship missiles. They can't cause serious damage, and they're easily shot down, even with a machine gun. Even civilian targets are hit by only 2-3% of them.
          1. -1
            21 July 2026 19: 50
            Quote: Photon
            Not just launch them, but have them attack the ship from different directions at the same time.

            Why? They're attacking from one direction.
            1. -1
              21 July 2026 23: 32
              "They're attacking from one direction." You're like Sun Tzu. The confidence of amateurs is the envy of professionals.
              They attack from one direction, on land. And even on land, when they can, they attack from different directions.
              1. 0
                22 July 2026 19: 44
                Quote: Photon
                They attack from one direction, on land. And even on land, when they can, they attack from different directions.

                Attacking from multiple directions allows for the simultaneous use of all air defense assets. To put it more figuratively, a hypothetical corvette has two AK-630s, each with its own arc of fire and physically unable to penetrate it. So, attacking from one direction requires overcoming the fire of one anti-aircraft gun, while attacking from two directions requires overcoming the fire of two anti-aircraft guns.
          2. +1
            21 July 2026 21: 16
            Unlike stationary objects, a ship can move at considerable speeds, and during the time a UAV approaches the ship, a number of measures can be taken to destroy attacking drones. The ship is equipped with electronic warfare and air defense systems. If the crew is properly trained, a ship on the move is a difficult target for drones.
        6. +1
          24 July 2026 11: 16
          What drones are you talking about? Can you give an example? Are you talking about those drones with the characteristics of an airplane from the 30s?
        7. +1
          25 July 2026 20: 36
          Quote: paul3390
          So here comes a sad thing...

          I wouldn't call this a "sad thing." It's a natural struggle between "sword and shield." Today, UAVs and unmanned aerial vehicles, like swords, demonstrate advances in offensive capabilities. As soon as mass-scale electronic countermeasures are developed, the situation will shift dramatically. The Chinese are already showing positive trends in this direction. We're probably also working hard in this direction. Tanks were invented, and they terrified defense units. Then came antitank weapons. The forces of both sides became equal. The same thing is happening here. Let's wait...
        8. -1
          30 July 2026 14: 54
          Judging by your reasoning, the question arises: why the hell do we need "combat" submarines that aren't combatants at all, but rather fishing vessels? Why the hell should we waste our taxes on floating junk that can't defend itself, let alone the civilian population? What kind of navy is this, anyway, or is the problem the so-called managers?
        9. 0
          2 August 2026 19: 40
          By 40, you mean back-ends—not fip-types, right? Well, launching 40 back-ends is a problem. Not that easy.
      2. +4
        21 July 2026 08: 47
        The options are:
        - SF - Modern fleet;
        - Black Sea Fleet - Whose fleet?!
        1. +1
          21 July 2026 12: 04
          Quote: Eisenfaust
          SF - Modern Fleet
          Initially they said, "The very fleet."
      3. -3
        21 July 2026 10: 12
        Black Sea Fleet - Chi Fleet...Chi Flotilla?
        1. -1
          21 July 2026 19: 17
          Actually, that's what they said in Ukraine about their fleet.
          1. 0
            22 July 2026 09: 40
            This is what a teacher who served in the Black Sea Fleet naval aviation told us, cadets at the Military University, in 1973.
    3. +9
      21 July 2026 06: 10
      I live in Sevastopol and spoke with sailors who served on the Moscow. They said the generators weren't replaced, but the electronic equipment was upgraded. As a result, the electrical system began to malfunction. Two missiles hit the ship at precisely that moment. The cruiser couldn't fight back.
      1. +5
        21 July 2026 09: 17
        Even if it couldn't fend off two subsonic missiles (which is paradoxical), their hits shouldn't have been fatal for the cruiser. The "Neptune" is a renamed Soviet "Uran" missile—it's designed to destroy ships with a displacement of up to 5000 tons; for a cruiser with a displacement of 11500 tons, these are like mosquito bites.
        1. -1
          21 July 2026 09: 36
          Quote: AndreyM
          Even if he couldn’t fight off two subsonic missiles (which is already paradoxical)

          Actually, there's nothing paradoxical about it—the cruiser doesn't have an anti-aircraft missile system capable of intercepting low-flying missiles. Not to mention that it might not have been two missiles, and perhaps not even missiles.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 23: 42
            "Actually, there's nothing paradoxical about it - the cruiser doesn't have an anti-aircraft missile system capable of intercepting low-flying aircraft." Well, if that's the case, then I suggest a topic for discussion: The Navy doesn't exist because iron is heavier than water.
            1. -1
              22 July 2026 07: 55
              Quote: Photon
              The navy does not exist because iron is heavier than water.

              Is it news to you that not all air defense systems are capable of intercepting low-flying anti-ship missiles? :)
        2. + 10
          21 July 2026 11: 43
          Quote: AndreyM
          Even if he couldn’t fight off two subsonic missiles (which is already paradoxical)

          There's no paradox here. Project 1164 was designed and built as part of a naval formation, carrying the DD SAM system and DD anti-ship missiles. The ship's short-range air defense and anti-submarine warfare were to be provided by other ships in the formation. They were also to provide early target detection in World War II and World War I. Therefore, the remaining air defense systems on Project 1164 were limited to self-defense systems—a pair of Osa SAMs, already obsolete by the time of construction, and six AK-630M CIWS.
          Moreover, the ship had to be more or less mass-produced (initially, it was planned to be made as an "1134B with anti-ship missiles") - so inflating it to the size of an 1144 was impossible. Without this, a proper layered air defense system wouldn't have fit on the ship at the time (you remember the size and weight of the Kinzhal SAM system with its wonderful revolver launchers of the "Nagant system" and huge antenna posts). smile ).
          And so this flagship of the unit was sent to the combat zone on a solo voyage. The end is a bit predictable ... ©
          As I wrote earlier, the situation with the Moskva missile cruiser is similar to deploying a bare S-300 to the front line, with its communications with the air defense system cut off.
          1. +1
            21 July 2026 20: 57
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Therefore, in fact, the 1164th Air Defense Force limited its remaining air defense systems to self-defense systems: a pair of Osa air defense missile systems, already obsolete at the time of construction, and six AK-630M CIWS.


            https://pravo.mgimo.ru/?q=node/23981

            "Existing domestic (AK 630 ZAK, OSA-M air defense missile system) and foreign (Vulcan-Phalanx SAM, Sea Wolf SAM) naval air defense systems did not solve the problem of effective protection against anti-ship missiles, since they did not provide the required detection zones and reliable tracking, fire performance and probability of destruction, and also had an insufficient supply of ammunition ready for use, and a long reload time.

            Author: A.V. Zhukov, Deputy Head of Department 4, Deputy Chief Designer of the Kashtan complex. "Kashtan M." Material provided by the press service of the High-Precision Systems holding company.

            How many decades, in your opinion, have specialists known that the AK-630M ZAK and the Osa-MA SAM system are not suitable for solving the problem? "effective protection against anti-ship missiles, since they did not provide the required detection zones and reliable tracking, fire performance and probability of destruction"?

            Is it known for at least more than four decades?

            Why do you think the task of re-equipping the Navy's large surface ships, including the Moskva missile cruisers in particular, with AK-630M and Osa-MA air defense missile systems capable of effectively defending ships from attacks by low-altitude subsonic anti-ship missiles has not been resolved over this period?

            Because the Soviet/Russian Navy, throughout all these decades (the Exocet anti-ship missile was accepted into service with the French Navy in 1975, the Harpoon anti-ship missile was accepted into service with the US Navy in 1977, the Osa-MA air defense missile system was accepted into service with the Soviet Navy in 1979, and the AK-630M air defense system was accepted into service with the Soviet Navy in 1980) always had other, more important technical priorities?
            1. +1
              22 July 2026 11: 05
              Quote: AlexanderA
              How many decades, in your opinion, have specialists known that the AK-630M ZAK and the Osa-MA SAM systems are unsuitable for solving the problem of "effective protection against anti-ship missiles, since they do not provide the required detection zones and reliable tracking, firepower, and probability of destruction"?

              At least since the development of the "Kortik" and "Kinzhal".
              Quote: AlexanderA
              Why do you think the task of re-equipping the Navy's large surface ships, including the Moskva missile cruisers in particular, with AK-630M and Osa-MA air defense missile systems capable of effectively defending ships from attacks by low-altitude subsonic anti-ship missiles has not been resolved over this period?

              Because at first the fleet had no money - you remember why the Black Sea Fleet flagship became the "Moscow".
              Then the money appeared, but the politicians had many demands. As a result, instead of a full overhaul (which is the only way to carry out rearmament), the RKR was constantly receiving only the VTG.
              1. +1
                22 July 2026 21: 49
                Quote: Alexey RA
                At least since the development of the "Kortik" and "Kinzhal".

                And no one is surprised that the Kortik ended up in service with 6 Navy ships, the Kinzhal with 11 Navy ships, the Osa air defense missile system of various modifications still arm ~40 Navy ships, and the AK-630M is still our everything... This parody of a ZAK is still armed with ~150 Navy ships and vessels.
                Because at first the fleet had no money - you remember why the Black Sea Fleet flagship became the "Moscow".

                When the Navy has had no money for a normal single-post 30mm ZAK since 1979... it's all over.

                https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/ob-effektivnosti-korabelnyh-artilleriyskih-ustanovok-pri-otrazhenii-protivokorabelnyh-raket.pdf

                "On the effectiveness of naval artillery installations in repelling anti-ship missiles" by Alexander Viktorovich Zhukov, Ph.D. (Eng.), chief designer, head of department, kbkedr@tula.net, Russia, Tula, JSC "Academician A.G. Shipunov Instrument Design Bureau"

                A comparative analysis of naval air defense artillery systems was conducted. The impact of artillery shell damage, firing accuracy, and the total number of rounds fired per firing session on firing efficiency was analyzed. The use of a single-station naval air defense artillery system utilizing 30-mm rapid-fire anti-aircraft guns, all-weather radar, and optoelectronic control systems was justified.
                1. 0
                  23 July 2026 00: 43
                  and the AK-630M is still our everything...

                  Well, purely theoretically: if not the AK-630M, then what kind of anti-aircraft artillery does the navy need?
                  After all, from what I've heard (and seen in a promotional film for the Pantsir air defense missile system - they couldn't shoot down a ridiculously slow drone at 2 km with their guns in two attempts, and they gave up - they shot it down with a missile!), we currently don't have any real anti-aircraft guns (of any caliber) that can reliably shoot down drones and low-flying cruise missiles.
                  1. +1
                    23 July 2026 09: 47
                    Quote: PavelT
                    Well, purely theoretically: if not the AK-630M, then what kind of anti-aircraft artillery does the navy need?

                    Today? The same compact 30mm multi-barrel CIWS mounted on the AK-630M (several hundred AK-630Ms are currently in service with the Navy). Only a single-post 30mm CIWS, with a radar and electronic countermeasures system right there on the turret, not a few dozen meters away from the gun mount. It has a variable rate of fire and selective ammunition feed: against high-velocity anti-ship missiles, it fires high-velocity sub-caliber projectiles designed to initiate the detonation of the explosive in the missile's warhead. Against swarming drones, it sparingly fires high-explosive fragmentation projectiles with remote detonation. It fires single shots and short bursts. Against unmanned aerial vehicles, it fires the same high-explosive fragmentation projectiles with contact detonation. And when the enemy develops armored kamikaze BEKs that can withstand the detonation of 30 mm HE shells on their armor, sub-caliber projectiles.

                    The Navy's problem is that instead of the AK-630M, which lacks its own detection and targeting systems mounted next to the gun, the manufacturer, the Tula Machine-Building Plant, previously offered the AK-630M1-2 "Roy" and is now offering the AK-630M-2 "Duet," which has all the AK-630M's inherent shortcomings, but with two multi-barrel 30mm automatic rifles. Clearly, the plant's design bureau lacked and still lacks the necessary expertise, and the designers at the Tula Design Bureau are only good at writing articles about the advantages of single-post CIWS, waiting for funding from the customer. The customer's understanding of the problem is roughly the same as that of the admirals of the Russian Imperial Navy, who understood the need to develop powerful high-explosive shells with a high explosive filling factor for naval artillery in the decade before the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905. No, you can find books, like that same V. I. Kolchak's "History of the Obukhov Steel Foundry in Connection with the Progress of Artillery Technology," published in 1903, which briefly mentions that the more explosive, the better, and such shells are certainly needed. You can even find a report about the Perm factories' readiness to launch production of 305 mm forged steel shells with a 7,75% bursting charge, but at 265 rubles apiece, instead of the thick-walled, low-explosive-fill shells they were producing at 100 rubles apiece. But all this by 1904-1905. and so it remained in the realm of good wishes.

                    Just as today, wishes for the presence of 30 mm single-station anti-aircraft/anti-boat defense systems on Navy ships remain in the realm of good wishes.

                    And back then, there were good wishes, but the ships didn't have any real high-explosive shells in their magazines. Today, good wishes from the same A.V. Zhukov of the Tula Design Bureau are welcome; they've been around for a long time, but there still aren't any autonomous single-station CIWS on ships.
                    1. +2
                      23 July 2026 16: 16
                      Quote: AlexanderA
                      Only a single-post 30 mm ZAK, with a radar and OES right there, "on the tower", and not several dozen meters from the artillery mount.

                      And I even know of such a ZAK - they wrote about it back in Soviet times.

                      This year he turned 40 years old. smile
                      1. +1
                        23 July 2026 18: 02
                        Yes, the Goalkeeper in the latest Upkeep Modification version is good. But today, I would demand a variable rate of fire, selective ammunition feed, and remote detonation of the 30mm HE shell, so that it would be effective (economical) not only against anti-ship missiles and aircraft and helicopters, but also against small UAVs, as well as as an anti-boat weapon and against unmanned aerial vehicles. Goalkeeper lacks all of these features, and it likely never will. The best AA system today is arguably the Chinese Type 1130. But even it lacks selective ammunition feed and a remote-detonated 30mm HE shell.

                        It seems to have been in service since 1980, so for a full 46 years.
                    2. 0
                      24 July 2026 03: 14
                      Thanks for the detailed answer!
                      I have singled out the wish for myself "It economically fires high-explosive fragmentation shells with remote detonation at swarm drones."Well, that's the STILL unsolved problem of remote detonation in the 30mm caliber (and even in the 57mm caliber)! Or at least a programmed detonation: so that before firing, the projectile's detonation time is set based on the electronically predicted (at the time of firing) range to the target. They can't even do that!
                      I have already spoken out on this topic here in the discussions about anti-drone weapons and projectiles (the point is that they could have simply used their old ones abroad a LONG time ago
                      Steal a 1980s AHEAD shell, disassemble it, study it, and make your own—like the Chinese do with all weapons. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHEAD

                      My opinion is:
                      Our military-industrial complex, specialists, and engineering school are quite capable (and willing) to produce 30-mm and 57-mm shells with remote/programmable detonation.
                      But the general impression is that at the top, in the Ministry of Defense, no one is interested in this... You won't make much money from this, but there's a lot of work.
                      All the "white noise" in the press about the supposedly imminent appearance of such shells on the front is created by journalists-propagandists-sycophants, sucking optimism out of their fingers.
                      An example article: https://ria.ru/20230818/zenitka-1890735694.html is quite typical! It cleverly states: "Anti-aircraft artillery vehicle ZAK-23E and automatic anti-aircraft mount ZU-23AE can get The latest 23mm controlled-detonation ammunition..." - a supposedly anonymous "informed" source said.
                      They may receive it, or they may not receive it.
                      1. +2
                        24 July 2026 11: 06
                        There is a 30 mm round with a high-explosive incendiary fragmentation projectile with a remote-controlled fuse, GRAU index ZUOF23.

                        The question is how much of it is available. There are appropriate AFV targeting systems capable of programming the projectile for remote detonation. The question, again, is how much of it is available.

                        There is definitely no naval artillery system capable of programming the shells of the specified 30 mm ZUOF23 round for remote detonation.

                        A question for the Navy leadership: why didn't the Navy's procurement bodies promptly order the development and procurement of naval artillery systems (both the light single-post ZAK, for installation on ships in the AK-630M mounting positions, and the anti-boat defense artillery systems (ASPO)) with selective ammunition feed, capable of firing 30 mm ZUOF23 HE rounds with remote detonation?

                        The general issue is that it is a long-standing tradition for the Russian Navy to "not notice" its own lag in "technical details" compared to the "navies of the most developed countries" until this lag in "details" leads to low combat effectiveness and high losses of the Navy's ships during combat operations, or even to a catastrophic defeat of the war at sea - as happened during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905.

                        What about 23mm projectiles with remote detonation? Those who have nothing better to do are trying to "modernize" the ZU-23, which is 66 years old. Even the ZU-23AE has been upgraded to fire single and double shots. In my opinion, the ZU-23's accuracy at combat ranges isn't high enough to count on much effect from firing 23mm projectiles with remote detonation against small UAVs.
          2. -1
            21 July 2026 22: 41
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And so this flagship of the formation was sent to the combat zone on a solo voyage. The ending is somewhat predictable... ©
            You won't believe it, but former captains who served in the Navy are proposing to send the heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Nakhimov to British shores.... unteachable
            1. VlK
              +2
              22 July 2026 11: 31
              Perhaps it's solely peacetime service that leaves its mark on a way of thinking, where performing simulated combat training missions and flying the flag is perceived as the navy's primary purpose. After all, it hasn't seen much combat since 45, and entire generations of "peacetime naval sailors" have come and gone.
              1. 0
                24 July 2026 03: 19
                Naturally. And not only in our country and not only in our navy.
                I watched this bacchanalia of reactions and military aid from small European countries to Ukraine and was simply stunned by their lack of fear. Denmark, for example, gave the Ukrainians ALL of its artillery: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/6523432
                Slovakia donated its only S-300 system. The Netherlands donated two-thirds of its air defense systems: https://www.gazeta.ru/army/news/2025/08/22/26556092.shtml
                How are they going to protect themselves? stupid people...
        3. +3
          21 July 2026 14: 43
          Quote: AndreyM
          Even if he couldn’t fight off two subsonic missiles (which is already paradoxical)

          The cruiser was old. Its air defenses could engage targets as close as 25 meters.
          And the missiles flew at an altitude of 5-10 m above the sea.
          The one who sent him to the BD must be punished.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 23: 52
            "Its air defenses took targets from 25 m.
            "And the missiles were flying at an altitude of 5-10 meters above sea level." You're confusing the altitude of a surface-to-air missile with the ability to hit low-flying targets. Even the old S-300 missiles would likely have been shot down by the Neptunes. Besides, the modern 48N6E2 missiles of the same S-300 have a flight altitude of 10 meters. The AK-630 shouldn't be discounted either, especially against subsonic anti-ship missiles. But, most importantly, there is information that Moscow didn't use SAMs. So, there were no Neptunes.
      2. 0
        21 July 2026 15: 12
        Quote from Gpn27
        Two missiles hit the ship at exactly that moment.

        And where exactly did they end up, in what part of the ship?
        1. 0
          26 July 2026 22: 28
          Go to Morskaya and read it.
          1. 0
            27 July 2026 04: 08
            Quote: Alex777
            Go to Morskaya and read it.

            I don't read in situations like this, but look.
            If you can show me, please don't hesitate to point me out.
            I have three diagrams from Western sources in my archive that show the locations of the missiles that hit the "Moscow." It's striking that all of them different, these schemes.
            It will be interesting to know your opinion, based not on other people's words, but on your personal opinion, based on analysis photographs..
            1. 0
              27 July 2026 17: 15
              I have reviewed the analysis of photographs available to colleagues competent in maritime matters.
              I received additional information from a source I trust.
              That's just my opinion. I don't plan to collect photos online and look at them, developing my own theories, not being a marine expert.
              If you have your own photos from the site of Moscow's destruction, then yes, you've "dived" deep.
              1. +1
                27 July 2026 23: 19
                Quote: Alex777
                If you have your own photos from the site of Moscow's destruction, then yes, you've "dived" deep.

                There is no need to “dive” anywhere, everything lies on the surface.
                We take two photographs of the Moskva in distress from open sources, enlarge them on a monitor screen, and carefully examine its hull for damage inevitable when hit by anti-ship missiles.
                What the impact sites should look like can be seen in photographs also from open sources.
                These are British ships from the Anglo-Argentine conflict, as well as target ships that were also hit by anti-ship missiles.
                Well, colleague, such hits are obviously not observed on the hull of the Moskva.
                Here, for example, is a hit on a target ship by an Exocet missile.
                Now look for something similar at "Moscow".
                1. -1
                  28 July 2026 11: 02
                  Simplicity is worse than theft. wink
                  1. 0
                    28 July 2026 13: 12
                    Quote: Alex777
                    Simplicity is worse than stealing

                    Nothing to cover?
                    laughing
                    1. 0
                      28 July 2026 15: 42
                      There's nothing to hide. Did you serve on 1164?
                      If not, then there is nothing to talk about. bully
                      I doubt that you are thoroughly familiar with the design of the cruiser's emergency systems.
                      If you don't know them, you won't be able to see anything in the photo.
                      That's why I advised you to visit Morskoy.
                      But you can't force someone to like you.
                      1. +1
                        29 July 2026 01: 15
                        Quote: Alex777
                        I doubt that you are thoroughly familiar with the design of the cruiser's emergency systems.

                        The issue is not the "cruiser's emergency systems," but the lack of evidence of anti-ship missiles hitting it.
                        These, for example.
                        This is from Exocet, the weight of the warhead is comparable to the Ukrainian Neptune.
                        If you served in the 1164, then you're in the clear. Just point to the arrows in the photo.
                        I hope you agree that the missiles could not help but leave traces in the hull of the Moskva?
                      2. -1
                        31 July 2026 15: 37
                        Quote: Comrade
                        I hope you agree that the missiles could not help but leave traces in the hull of the Moskva?

                        Much depends on the type of warhead and how it worked.
                        By the way, have you seen the official version of the destruction of Moscow?
                      3. +1
                        1 August 2026 04: 17
                        Quote: Alex777
                        By the way, have you seen the official version of the destruction of Moscow?

                        Sorry for answering a question with a question, but did you happen to come across my article about the sinking of the Moskva about four years ago?
                        Just in case, it's on my profile, titled "The Death of the Cruiser Moskva. Where the Missiles Hit."

                        https://topwar.ru/198800-gibel-krejsera-moskva-ili-kuda-popali-rakety-.html

                        I have an improved version of it. I made it for myself, but there's no point in posting it anymore because it's no longer relevant.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Much depends on the type of warhead and how it worked.

                        No matter how it worked, for a ship of such displacement, a hit from two such missiles, even if we assume that they took place, is not enough.
                        This is my personal opinion, and I do not present it as the ultimate truth, of course.
                        By the way, I have three Ukrainian theories in my archive about how many missiles allegedly hit the "Moscow." The theory that two missiles were fired later gained currency. But in the heat of the moment, Ukrainian media outlets cited one, two, and even three.
                        No one knows where they got their information. But the inconsistency suggests the journalists were clearly reading tea leaves.
                      4. -1
                        3 August 2026 19: 09
                        During tests of the US-based Aegis missile defense system, a single remote-controlled BQM-74 subsonic target missile was launched. As a result, the rocket crashed into the destroyer, which can be regarded as a complete defeat and loss of the ship.

                        When the BC doesn't work, this happens.

                        P.S. Technically, you avoided discussing the lack of an official version.
                      5. +1
                        3 August 2026 19: 19
                        Quote: Alex777
                        When the BC doesn't work and this happens

                        That is, the warheads of the Ukrainian missiles did not detonate, moreover, the missiles themselves managed to leave no traces of impact on the side, and the cruiser, despite this, was destroyed?

                        Quote: Alex777
                        Technically, you avoided discussing the lack of an official version.

                        I didn’t even think of avoiding it; I was willing to discuss it.
                        For now I will say that it does not contradict known facts.
                        PS
                        The question is the same.
                        Put arrows on where the missiles hit? The hull is clearly visible, even the portholes and the ramp at the stern are visible.
                      6. -1
                        3 August 2026 23: 52
                        Quote: Comrade
                        Put arrows where the missiles hit?

                        Everything has long been discussed at Morskoy. I'm too lazy to repeat it. And there's no point.
                      7. +1
                        4 August 2026 01: 32
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Everything has long been discussed at Morskoy. I'm too lazy to repeat it. And there's no point.

                        Our conversation is akin to a conversation between an atheist and a believer.
                        I don't see any missile hits, but you believe that they exist.
                        However, you don’t see them yourself.
                      8. +1
                        4 August 2026 04: 31
                        Thanks for the photo.
                        Here are some photos of domestic hits training anti-ship missiles.
                        So, we can see the portholes on the Moskva, and the ramp too, but I personally can't see any holes from missiles that not only didn't detonate their warheads, but didn't have any at all.
                      9. The comment was deleted.
    4. -3
      21 July 2026 09: 08
      The BEC is not difficult to destroy, but it is very difficult to detect.
      1. -2
        22 July 2026 00: 10
        Why is it so difficult to detect? If you recall, patrol ships, i.e., weak ships, were perfectly capable of detecting unmanned submarines with their radars and shooting them down. Until Sergei Kotov found himself in an unguarded position against 15 unmanned submarines. But someone deserves a star rating for such a position.
  2. + 15
    21 July 2026 04: 32
    As for the Ukrainian Armed Forces' statements, who doubts that they were capable of declaring "Moscow" their victory after NATO intelligence services discovered that the Black Sea Fleet's flagship was on fire?

    I wasn't lazy at the time and combed through the official lists of Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers awarded by Zelinsky for several months ahead of the date of the Moskva's death.
    And I discovered an eloquent fact.
    Zelinsky generously awarded for sinking Black Sea Fleet boats, even on video.
    But in the case of the "Moskva," there's a deathly silence. On the one hand, there's the triumphant blare of fanfare in the Ukrainian media, on the other, the stony silence of the Ukrainian president, who, in theory, should have enthusiastically thanked and generously rewarded the missile crews who "sunk" the cruiser.
    I consider this a clear blunder by Ukrainian propagandists: "feat", it turns out, offers, but "heroes", who created it - no laughing
    1. + 15
      21 July 2026 05: 51
      Quote: Comrade
      In theory, he should have enthusiastically thanked and generously rewarded the missilemen who "sunk" the cruiser.

      If you are implying that we sank the Black Sea Fleet flagship ourselves, then that is even more shameful.
      1. +5
        21 July 2026 06: 57
        Quote: Puncher
        If you are implying that we sank the Black Sea Fleet flagship ourselves, then that is even more shameful.

        It's obvious the old cruiser sank on its own. It should have been decommissioned 10 years ago or given a major overhaul with new engines. The end result is a disgrace.
        1. 0
          21 July 2026 11: 02
          It would be easier to build a new one for the same amount of money. Or several frigates/corvettes, they would be more useful.
          And VTG is about restoring mobility, making it possible for the ship to leave the pier on its own, without tugboats.
          1. 0
            27 July 2026 14: 50
            Alas! Nothing is easier now. But there is no end to modernizing something that doesn't actually work.
      2. +5
        21 July 2026 07: 10
        Quote: Puncher
        If you are implying that we sank the Black Sea Fleet flagship ourselves, then that is even more shameful.

        The problem is that the cruiser should have either been decommissioned or modernized. But in the end, they got away with a technical restoration at the Black Sea shipyard, which hadn't performed technical restoration on cruisers for 100500 years.
        1. +6
          21 July 2026 07: 43
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          The question is what the cruiser needed

          Mmm... People are jailed for a fatal accident caused by faulty equipment. Those responsible for maintaining the equipment... Somehow, no one was jailed.
          1. + 11
            21 July 2026 07: 45
            Quote: Puncher
            People are sent to prison for accidents with human casualties that occurred due to faulty equipment.

            "The main thing during investigative actions is not to get caught in the crossfire."
        2. 0
          21 July 2026 09: 18
          It was being prepared for modernization. But then the Northern Military District began. And in the Black Sea Fleet, it was the only ship with area air defense and a helicopter, so it had to be used.
          1. +6
            21 July 2026 11: 53
            Quote: AndreyM
            And in the Black Sea Fleet, it was the only ship with zonal air defense and a helicopter, so it had to be used

            Yeah... deploy. Pull the flagship of the naval formation into range of the enemy's anti-ship missiles. Alone, without cover. sad
        3. +7
          21 July 2026 11: 47
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          The issue is that the cruiser should have been either decommissioned or modernized. But in the end, they got away with just restoring technical readiness.

          T - Tradition.
          We had a whole aircraft carrier that was sailing for fifteen years instead of needing major repairs. from VTG to VTG.
          1. -1
            21 July 2026 12: 04
            Quote: Alexey RA
            T - Tradition.

            O - That's great:)))))))
      3. +4
        21 July 2026 09: 12
        Most likely, they did it themselves. But there's no great shame here—the cruiser is very old and, due to Ukrainian restrictions on the Black Sea Fleet's basing in Sevastopol, has never undergone a major overhaul. After Crimea returned to Russia, it was prepared for an inter-fleet voyage to Sevmash for modernization, but then the SVO began, and Turkey closed the straits. An accident on such a decrepit ship isn't a disgrace, but a natural occurrence.
    2. +5
      21 July 2026 08: 37
      "But in the case of Moscow, there is deathly silence."
      There is an opinion that "Moscow" was not sunk Ukrainians, and "foreign specialists," namely the Norwegians. Accordingly, with the missiles they have in their arsenal.
      Let me remind you that at the beginning of the Soviet Military Operation, our large landing ships were moored off Odessa, awaiting orders to disembark. Odesa residents were full of videos and photos of ships on the horizon. And for some reason, Ukrainian missile troops didn't attack such easy targets. However, a month and a half later, they managed to hit a cruiser at night, following a tip from who knows who.
      1. +2
        21 July 2026 10: 36
        Well, they touched the landing craft in Berdyansk, quite well.
        1. +2
          21 July 2026 11: 57
          In Berdyansk, Tochka-u worked along the pier. "This is different."
      2. 0
        21 July 2026 15: 11
        Quote: belost79
        Some believe the Moskva was sunk not by Ukrainians, but by "foreign specialists," specifically Norwegians. Consequently, with the missiles they possess.

        Have you looked closely at the photographs of the distressed Moskva?
    3. 0
      21 July 2026 12: 15
      Quote: Comrade
      But in the case of "Moscow" - deathly silence.
      Don't you think it was the British, for example, who distinguished themselves there? If so, Zelenskyy prefers the theory that our cruiser "blew itself up." It's like Khrushchev's story with the battleship Novorossiysk, with the old German bottom mine. Why these "gentlemen" manage to remain in the shadows is another matter.
    4. +2
      21 July 2026 13: 03
      In all this mess with the sinking of the Black Sea Fleet flagship, I have a question: "How are things going on the cruiser Varyag?" It seems to be identical to the design, right? And it's also a flagship, only for the Pacific Fleet. I'm not a sailor, but due to the needs of the service, I had the opportunity to serve on it during the stagnation years. Will I have to mumble something, if anything happens?
  3. +3
    21 July 2026 04: 35
    And it is not his fault that the military realities of the Central Military District and the political course of the country's leadership do not allow us to use this instrument in an armed conflict.

    As they say...curtain. what
  4. +1
    21 July 2026 04: 44
    Disperse the fleet, send the sailors to assault and air defense forces. Did I understand the author correctly?
    1. +4
      21 July 2026 08: 18
      It is already being implemented, and not only in the Black Sea Fleet.
      I currently work in an office where naval retirees of all ranks form the bulk of the workforce. Every week I hear news of comrades who fell in the Northern Military District.
    2. +7
      21 July 2026 08: 30
      Quote: avia12005
      Disperse the fleet, send the sailors to assault and air defense forces. Did I understand the author correctly?

      In principle, to be completely honest, yes. But why would we need one like that? It can't do this, it can't do that, it's ineffective, etc. But we have a bunch of admirals with their victory reports. And quite frankly, we've been incompetent in naval matters, ever since the sinking of the Black Sea Fleet in the 19th century.
      1. +3
        21 July 2026 12: 51
        Why not? During World War I, the Black Sea Fleet proved its worth and performed admirably. For this, the revolutionary "sailors" took revenge on the naval officers in 1917. They then sank the battleship Empress Catherine the Great (Svobodnaya Rossiya). The "Whites," to complete the fleet's destruction, took its remains to Tunisia.
        The Baltic Fleet failed to pull off something similar; it was able to be preserved, which later proved very helpful in the defense of Leningrad.
        1. +1
          21 July 2026 14: 32
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          During the First World War, the Black Sea Fleet proved that it could do a lot and showed itself to be quite worthy.

          Having total superiority over the German and Turkish fleets, it showed extreme inefficiency.
          1. +1
            21 July 2026 14: 42
            The superiority wasn't total. The advantage became significant with the introduction of battleships. Before that, they managed to counter the German battleship with ships comparable to the battleship Potemkin.
            1. +1
              21 July 2026 16: 04
              Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
              Before that, they managed to resist the German battleship with ships of the level of the battleship Potemkin.

              Wasn't Goeben a battlecruiser, or even a battleship? On our side, we had six old-style battleships, several cruisers, submarines, and much more. Total superiority.
              1. -1
                21 July 2026 16: 11
                I have no desire to get involved in a discussion on this topic. It's a subject for another discussion, somewhere in the history thread. Especially since, for you, the battleship Potemkin has become a battleship! That one was obsolete even before its launch, at the end of the 19th century.
              2. +6
                21 July 2026 16: 28
                Quote: qqqq
                On our side there are 6 battleships of the old type, several cruisers, submarines and much more.

                At least study the fleet compositions at your leisure. At the beginning of the war, the Turks, besides the Goeben, had three "battleships"—if you count the old battleships—and three cruisers. The Black Sea Fleet, by the way, only had two.
                Quote: qqqq
                Complete superiority.

                They had superiority, so the Black Sea Fleet did everything they considered necessary - they harassed Turkish shipping, destroyed Zunguldak, caused a coal crisis that nearly disrupted the army's supplies, forcing coal to be transported to Turkey from Germany... and carried out many other exercises.
                But the Turkish fleet couldn't do anything. Yes, the Turks started the war with the first blow. And then—only Goeben would occasionally show up, and, having encountered ours, would immediately flee.
                1. +2
                  21 July 2026 17: 57
                  Here's what the internet reveals. By 1914, the Black Sea Fleet consisted of:
                  Pre-dreadnought battleships (squadron battleships): Evstafiy (flagship), Ioann Zlatoust, Panteleimon (formerly Prince Potemkin-Tavrichesky), Rostislav, Tri Svyatelya, Sinop.
                  Bogatyr-class cruisers.
                  17 destroyers.
                  12 destroyers.
                  4 submarines.
                  The aviation consisted of only 8 aircraft.
                  The Turks had: 2 armored cruisers, the Medjidiye (built in the USA in 1903) and the Hamidiye (built in England in 1904), 2 battleships, the Torgut Reis and the Hayreddin Barbarossa (Brandenburg-class battleships, purchased from Germany in 1910), 4 French-built destroyers (1907, Durandal class), and 4 German-built destroyers (purchased from Germany in 1910, S 165 type). The Turks were also extremely undertrained.
                  Well, it’s natural that the Goeben weren’t suicidal enough to engage in open combat in such a situation.
                  1. +3
                    21 July 2026 18: 19
                    Quote: qqqq
                    17 destroyers.
                    12 destroyers.

                    8 destroyers, 4 Sokols, 4 Pernovs
                    Quote: qqqq
                    4 destroyers of German construction (purchased in Germany in 1910, type "S 165").

                    Yeah. And 14 more destroyers to boot.
                    Quote: qqqq
                    2 armored deck cruisers "Medjidiye" (built in the USA 1903) and "Gamidiye" (England 1904)

                    And they didn’t count Breslau, the only modern light cruiser in the World Cup.
                    Quote: qqqq
                    Well, it’s natural that the Goeben weren’t suicidal enough to engage in open combat in such a situation.

                    Well, it’s natural that the Black Sea Fleet did whatever it wanted at sea.
                2. 0
                  21 July 2026 18: 35
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  There was superiority, so the Black Sea Fleet did everything it considered necessary.

                  The Black Sea Fleet pioneered sabotage operations against enemy navies back in 1877, long before it became mainstream. Then, in 1915, it was one of the first to acquire aircraft carriers, aerial reconnaissance and targeting, and bombing capabilities.
                  And then something happened
              3. +2
                21 July 2026 18: 35
                Quote: qqqq
                Goeben didn't measure up to the battleship?

                So, the Goeben, with a weight of 23 thousand tons and a speed of 24 knots (28 during trials), a main gun of 270 mm and 10 main guns firing 300 kg shells, does not reach the level of a battleship?
                But the Zlatoust, with its 12000 tons, 16 knots of speed, main battery guns no more than 229 mm, and 4 main battery guns with 330 kg shells, not only reach the level of battleships, but cover all whofalls short"like a bull a sheep!
          2. +1
            21 July 2026 15: 05
            Quote: qqqq
            showed extreme inefficiency.

            If the fulfillment of all the tasks that the fleet faced is ineffective, then yes
    3. -6
      21 July 2026 09: 14
      Yes, the author's conclusion is too long - it could have been reduced to something more succinct: "Katz suggests surrender."
      In fact, the Black Sea Fleet could at least implement a naval blockade of Ukrainian ports using submarines.
      1. +6
        21 July 2026 09: 40
        Quote: AndreyM
        Yes, the author's conclusion is too long - it could have been reduced to something more succinct: "Katz suggests surrender."

        Andrey, did you even read the article?
        Quote: AndreyM
        In fact, the Black Sea Fleet could at least implement a naval blockade of Ukrainian ports using submarines.

        For those who can't make it through four A4 pages of text, I'll recap briefly: a blockade requires permission to sink ships sailing to and from Ukrainian ports under non-Ukrainian flags. This permission does NOT exist. And without it, no submarine can do anything—it will have to surface in front of the shore for inspection, whether the vessel is carrying military equipment or not.
        1. -1
          21 July 2026 10: 34
          Mine warfare.
          Place a dozen mines along the routes. And make it publicly known. Here are the mines from here to here.
          Don't go here.
          This will disrupt logistics. It won't cancel them, but it will complicate them.
          While Ukrainians They'll gather while they're clearing the mines.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 10: 41
            Quote: garri-lin
            Mine warfare.

            Of course. But - you can't.
        2. -1
          21 July 2026 11: 11
          There will be no resolutions in the foreseeable future. Hope for peace talks will not die until 2030.
        3. +1
          21 July 2026 14: 55
          A blockade requires permission to sink ships sailing to/from Ukrainian ports under non-Ukrainian flags.

          It seems like they drowned the Indians the other day, it’s unlikely they were under the Ukrainian flag.
          Now our ambassador to India is being harassed.

          But that's not what I'm talking about; the Black Sea Fleet is not needed to completely stop maritime traffic in the Black Sea.
          Aviation is through the roof.
      2. -1
        21 July 2026 10: 57
        Quote: AndreyM
        In fact, the Black Sea Fleet could at least implement a naval blockade of Ukrainian ports using submarines.

        Submarines alone can't do much. They require the cover of a surface fleet. And then there are secure bases for maintenance, which are scarce. A fleet is a combination of assets. No single asset can solve the entire fleet's mission.
  5. + 13
    21 July 2026 04: 46
    Only the lazy haven't criticized the Black Sea Fleet for this. But here again, the issue of the lack of a systematic approach to fleet development comes to the fore.

    Don't you find this lacking in logic? The "but" in the second sentence somehow seems like a contrast. But in reality, this is precisely one of the points of criticism: "the lack of a systematic approach to naval construction."
    Secondly, unfortunately, in building the fleet, we have focused on commissioning warships and (sometimes) multi-role fighters, but not on the means to ensure their combat use.

    And again it’s unclear – is this a defense of the fleet from criticism – or criticism of the fleet???
    Poor air defense, anti-drone defense, anti-boat defense... who's to blame? Isn't it the navy? Who should be thinking through the concept of using, building, etc. the navy? The tankers???
    Reconnaissance aircraft.
    This is certainly not a navy, but what's stopping an AWACS aircraft from flying alongside it with its electronic warfare systems turned on at full power?
    In principle, excuses can always be creatively invented. As a project manager, I know how to do it myself.
    1. +1
      21 July 2026 05: 12
      Quote from tsvetahaki
      Who should think through the concept of using, building, etc. the fleet? The tankers???
      You're certainly right about that. I don't want to defend the naval leadership, but today's armed forces are faced with a new and previously unknown weapon: drones. And no one yet knows how to combat them, even though a whole host of anti-drone gadgets have been invented.
      1. 0
        21 July 2026 06: 21
        Quote: Xenon
        And no one knows yet how to fight them, although a lot of anti-drone gadgets have been invented

        Drones truly have a significant impact on modern warfare, but they require air cover, as has been discussed many times on this site. FABs are excellent at destroying all infantry in a fortified position, including "near-edge" drone operators who hinder advances and inflict the greatest damage on enemy troops. As for the rest, high-quality reconnaissance is primarily used, followed by strikes on staging areas, production facilities, and other targets. And then there's the air takeout of all other important targets. So, everything's there, you just don't have the "air cover." Yes, you first need to destroy the air defenses, of course, but the methods for destroying air defenses have long been known in military science and aren't an insurmountable problem. And in general, in a real conflict, many of the "strange" BDs are quite common. Regarding the navy, for example, why aren't submarines used? Are they ineffective against a country without a navy and anti-submarine submarines? Another example: during WWII, powerful fortified areas were practically impossible to take without air power or superguns. Were they superweapons? Yes, if there's no air power to bomb them... without it, it's really unclear how to fight them.
      2. +8
        21 July 2026 06: 22
        Quote: Xenon
        But today, modern armed forces are faced with a new and previously unknown weapon: drones.

        Do you think it's necessary to collide with a wall to notice it?
        So the Turks thought about it, even though they had never encountered them... and started making them.
        nobody knows yet

        Precisely because these "nobodies" never intended to think and confront each other (just like us). But they did—and in less than six months, they tried dozens of solutions. Another year—and the solution will crystallize. THERE.

        The problem with the navy, alas, is different. You can tolerate "some shortcomings." But when there are only shortcomings and no advantages... Not a single mission is accomplished, everything possible is lost, the ships are hiding—God forbid anything happens—hoping to survive above the water until peacetime, when they can proudly sail the seas and thereby defend the Motherland.
        1. 0
          21 July 2026 10: 40
          Quote from tsvetahaki
          So the Turks thought about it, even though they hadn't encountered it... and started making them.
          Have the Turks learned how to fight drones yet? Especially small ones?
          1. -1
            21 July 2026 20: 20
            Quote: Xenon
            Have the Turks learned how to fight drones yet? Especially small ones?

            So, do the Turks have the best General Staff in the world? They even thought of making drones—that's a brilliant idea, compared to others.
            "Others" did not notice the rapid development of electronics, considering it impossible and not very necessary.
            The Turks, however, are more focused on offensive action against the Kurds. They haven't sought a solution that would protect them from something no one else has on a budget. Not even Israel.
            But wait a year. If they decide to develop defense against drones, they'll do it. Even the Turks. And lasers (not just a single display unit), and cheap missiles, and artillery solutions. A lot of things are already working.
      3. 0
        21 July 2026 07: 38
        During WWII, we also encountered something we didn't expect - dive bombers.
      4. +1
        21 July 2026 08: 24
        Come on!
        Take down a flyer like that with the SBC and everyone will stick to their chairs.
        And communicate through non-diplomatic channels so that they don't set their sights on us and fly over our theater of operations. Otherwise, Iran will eviscerate the entire Middle East, including Israel. They might (suddenly!) find ways to attack Koska Saprykin.
    2. +8
      21 July 2026 07: 20
      Quote from tsvetahaki
      Who should think through the concept of using, building, etc. the fleet?

      Anything can be invented. But the construction concept isn't determined at the Black Sea Fleet command level; it's written by far higher-ranking officials. And ultimately, the fleet will get what it's given.
      You are right in speaking about a systemic crisis in the naval leadership, but you are wrong in placing the blame on the Black Sea Fleet.
      Quote from tsvetahaki
      Poor air defense

      Do you think it was the Black Sea Fleet that rejected the 22350 frigates in favor of the much more modest 11356? Do you think it was the navy that decided a couple of Su-30 squadrons would be enough?
      Quote from tsvetahaki
      but what prevents an AWACS aircraft from flying alongside and parallel to it with its electronic warfare systems turned on at full power?

      What kind? We don't have any electronic warfare aircraft in the navy. But the air force had as many as three of them, but I don't know how many there are now.
      1. +3
        21 July 2026 07: 45
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        the concept of construction is not determined at the level of the Black Sea Fleet command, its much higher-ranking uncles write it
        High-ranking uncles, as you call them, when creating the concept of the fleet, rely primarily on the recommendations of the World Cup command
        1. +3
          21 July 2026 07: 55
          Quote: Schneeberg
          rely primarily on the recommendations of the World Cup command

          This... is slightly untrue. Completely. For example, the "doves of peace"—the Project 22160 patrol ships—were pushed into the fleet by Navy Commander-in-Chief Chirkov, who cancelled the OVR corvette recommended by the sailors.
          1. +1
            21 July 2026 13: 02
            And who stopped the navy from at least demanding additional armament for these ships? Is anyone stopping the almost completely unarmed border guard ships from being equipped with additional air defense systems?
            1. +1
              21 July 2026 14: 08
              Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
              And who stopped the fleet from demanding at least additional armament for these ships?

              Nobody. And the ships were re-armed. They were equipped with Tor anti-aircraft missiles.
              1. 0
                21 July 2026 14: 38
                If no one is stopping them from being armed, then why are border guard ships still being built almost completely unarmed?
              2. -3
                21 July 2026 14: 58
                photomontage?
                TOR is too small.
                1. +2
                  21 July 2026 15: 04
                  Quote: bk316
                  photomontage?

                  There are a lot of these photos on the internet and a lot has been written about them.
                  1. -1
                    21 July 2026 15: 32
                    Removed from chassis.
                    Funny.
      2. -3
        21 July 2026 08: 26
        Russia remains a land power, as it was before. Strong navies are the preserve of rich countries with free access to the ocean. Therefore, no matter how much you invest in your navy, it will be useless.
        1. +3
          21 July 2026 08: 28
          Very common misconceptions, very.
          1. -4
            21 July 2026 08: 45
            Well, what a misconception. A navy is very expensive, really, really expensive. Just think back to the history of the Russian Empire. How much it poured into that navy, to the detriment of everything else, especially the army, and what happened. We just have to admit that we have such a geographic location. Naval aviation and missile systems are sufficient to protect the coast; this will prevent the enemy from operating freely near our shores. And those who invest in the navy are those who are not threatened on their own territory.
            1. +4
              21 July 2026 09: 02
              Then your "geographical location" will inevitably shrink to the size of the Golden Ring. And your infrastructure will be reduced to a tourist destination with vodka, nesting dolls, and balalaikas.
              1. -3
                21 July 2026 10: 20
                In fact, it expanded from the Golden Ring to the very outskirts, and the navy certainly played a role there, albeit a supporting one, not a primary one, like England and the United States, which were initially focused on maritime and oceanic trade. Look at what they had before the First and Second World Wars, what their land forces were like, and it all becomes clear who was focusing on what and why.
                1. +3
                  21 July 2026 10: 40
                  I wrote it more than once.
                  Relying on ground forces means fighting a war on one's own soil, with great bloodshed. The First World War, the Great Patriotic War, and this Central Military District brilliantly confirm this assertion.
                  In a land war, you will have to destroy the enemy's ground army, grind it down in positional battles, conduct an offensive at the cost of significant losses, and lose personnel and equipment almost for nothing if the enemy acts skillfully.
                  In short, if we put aside the propaganda flair, then victory in a land war against an enemy of equal strength is always a Pyrrhic victory.
                  By controlling the oceans and seas, you can always force a war on your enemy in a theater of military operations that is inconvenient for him, supply an expeditionary army by sea, block the enemy's sea communications, and in the modern era, threaten to strike his territory from virtually any point on the globe.
                  By comparison, the territory of the Union State makes up 3.4% of the globe, and seas and oceans – more than 70%.
                  1. 0
                    21 July 2026 11: 35
                    In principle, I agree. But you, as I understand it, are suggesting we change geography. We open our eyes in the morning, and bam—seas and oceans right next to us, without any straits, and warm seas at that. Where are you going to go from geography? So, you can build, pouring astronomical sums into ships, like in the Russian Empire, and then, having sent them far away, instantly lose 10 annual land army budgets on weapons.
                    1. 0
                      21 July 2026 11: 56
                      Have you ever wondered why access to the Pacific Ocean and the annexation of Yellow Russia were so important?
                      This is Russia's main disaster.
                      We had the misfortune of challenging Great Britain, which has a habit of reducing its opponents to vassal status.
                      While Peter the Great was destroying their main competitor in the early 18th century, they sometimes simply watched, sometimes even assisted. During Catherine the Great's reign, they skillfully used the Russians to neutralize Turkey and seize control of the Mediterranean. At the hands of our Anglophiles, they assassinated Emperor Paul I, who had only just dared to cast his eye on India. They entered into direct confrontation with Russia in the mid-19th century to prevent the fall of the Porte and Russia's access to the Indian Ocean. And the late 19th and early 20th centuries saw a clash of interests in China and the Pacific.
                      Russia lost, stood before the lemon-growers in a pose of submission, and unresolved problems of development (including the Far East) and the agrarian question (including Yellow Russia for this, yeah) finished off the Russian Empire.
                      Andrei Nikolaevich and I hold different views on the possible outcome of the Russo-Japanese War, but there's no doubt that the British would have laid down their lives to prevent Russia from achieving victory. And an attempt to fight on land, given that the enemy controlled the seas in a distant theater of operations, was doomed to failure, regardless of any budgetary maneuvers in Witte's name.
                      So this is the most striking tragedy of the land-based perception of the world.
                      1. 0
                        21 July 2026 12: 11
                        It's called geography. There's nothing we can do; we're not a continent or an island. And pouring exorbitant amounts of money into something that can be sunk by multiple missiles at once, or damaged and require years of repairs, costing billions and not rubles, is, in my opinion, a waste of money. It's better to invest in aviation, missile forces (short- and medium-range), and low-yield nuclear weapons. The effect will be incomparably greater. Iran is an example. The US has a very powerful navy, so what? It can't even fulfill the local task of ensuring safe navigation in a location that's important to them.
                      2. +1
                        21 July 2026 12: 39
                        This powerful American fleet "hasn't started yet."
                        If we fight like real men, this fleet will completely destroy Iran's energy, water, and communications systems. Iran's oil and gas industry will be completely out of the question. Nor will food and medicine be a concern.
                        Yes, there will be a series of missile strikes in response, but they won't affect anyone except the bases. If it weren't for the electoral games, that's how it would have been.
                        I remember guys returning from Vietnam saying they'd been waiting for a real war, one they'd never had a chance in. But it finally arrived.
                        So it is here: while AI dreams of some kind of revolution in Iran, the war will be waged more in the realm of PR.
                      3. 0
                        21 July 2026 12: 50
                        Your American fleet can't do anything there. Or do you also think they haven't started in earnest yet? I've heard that somewhere before, though I forget who.
                        This is all a fairy tale, in my opinion. The navy can't do anything without a ground operation. And they don't have the strength for a ground operation against a country like Iran. Special operations won't be enough there.
                        And that's it, your fleet has reached a dead end; all that's left is bombing. It's just unclear how this ensures freedom of navigation, and therefore freedom of trade, and isn't that what a fleet is for in the first place? So you have no methods against Saprykin's scum. They've been bombing the Houthis for ages, probably for 10 years, that's for sure. So what? Iran is more powerful.
                        Moreover, if we're going to count these bombings that way, they're mostly coming from land-based air bases. F-15s are primarily involved there. What does that mean? It means the navy is just a supporting player in this conflict. It's launching missiles. They can be launched from the ground and from aircraft, too.
                      4. +1
                        21 July 2026 13: 31
                        Thank goodness, of course, that the American fleet is mine. I don't know who to do with this wealth.
                        But in vain did you waste your eloquence on one who has lived and seen.
                        In Turkestan, Skobelev found an extremely effective means of combating the Basmachi's flying squads: he filled up the wells.
                        Here, too, thousands of miles from the Continent, the fleet is capable of shutting down the water supply systems of major Iranian cities and agricultural reservoirs. Twenty million people could survive in Iran without electricity and industrial water, so another seventy million would need to be accommodated.
                        Well, the most economical way of implementation is the use of nuclear weapons.
                        It's laughable to even read about the invincible Houthis. They don't produce anything, let alone feed themselves. A single supply line and they'll die.
                        War is the legalization of murder, including total murder if the power is strong enough. What's happening before your eyes is the continuation of a certain policy aimed at satisfying public opinion. The IRGC, which exercises absolute power in Iran, understands this too, and therefore strikes cautiously, hoping to reach an agreement or to overthrow the Republicans.
                      5. -1
                        21 July 2026 15: 32
                        They could probably reset it, but the Iranians could also reset the Persian Gulf countries (their allies). They'll have a much worse water situation than the Iranians (it's a mountainous country, after all), and there are deserts there. And these countries aren't some walrus or some Houthi; they and Iran supply 25 to 35% of the world's oil. The world is global now, so what do you think the consequences of shutting these countries down would be? What do you think? The navy isn't up to the task of ensuring global trade. They have no methods against Kostya Saprykin. That's why Donald the Redhead is making a fuss, signing all sorts of papers, while the oil reserves are dwindling. What will happen when the reserves run out? What do you think? That would be more powerful than Goethe's Faust. "If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones." If this triggers a global economic downturn, the US will certainly have no time for Iran.
                        Nuclear weapons. If the US uses nuclear weapons first, there's no guarantee they won't get nuclear weapons in response. Do you think Iran won't? Some of our unfriendly countries will be in a tight spot. There are so many nuclear targets there, and they're so vulnerable. They're not like the Houthis, who have a kerka and a shovel; they have technology and a life of loafing. The navy has no methods, it can't do anything on its own; its time is over.
                      6. 0
                        21 July 2026 15: 57
                        Why even need Iran and other countries if we approach things this way? Well, the Turks will come and start all over again. The Earth is three times overpopulated, so the bench is long and energy consumption can be reduced significantly.
                        Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons, and it never will. It's too late. They don't have a navy, and the US is out of reach. They'll be lured in with a bait and switch and wiped out if they give in. However, things could change in the US.
                      7. 0
                        21 July 2026 16: 27
                        No, the Turks won't come. The Turks haven't had much success with Iran before. They'll get what they deserve.
                        I don't know about nuclear weapons. Israel officially doesn't have them either, but they do exist. Or maybe they don't have them here either, but they do exist.
                        As for getting to the US—they certainly won't, but they could very well get to its economy, and that's where Koshchei's needle lies. The navy is expensive, remember.
            2. VlK
              0
              21 July 2026 14: 49
              And to protect our merchant shipping? Where neither our army nor air force can reach? And remember why Peter the Great began building a navy in the first place—to break the naval trade blockade of our "respected partners," when their merchants were buying up our resources in our own ports for next to nothing and selling their goods at exorbitant prices.
              1. 0
                21 July 2026 15: 41
                We won't be able to protect our merchant shipping. And times have changed since Peter the Great; back then, it was possible to exploit the tensions between Denmark, Sweden, Poland, and other countries. And to form alliances, some against others. Remember the Battle of Chesma? Without England, there would have been no victory. And now the world has become global. We can't even pass through the Danish Straits or the Bosphorus. We're locked in by geography. What's left for us? The North Pole, where the bears are.
                1. +1
                  21 July 2026 16: 02
                  You can protect yourself by threatening to destroy the attacker. It doesn't have to be at sea. It's just much more convenient at sea, like a fistfight in the yard or in a five-meter kitchen.
                  1. -1
                    21 July 2026 16: 52
                    Then why do we need an expensive navy? If missiles can do it? Remember the ad, "Why pay more?" Or do you want to compete with the Americans? Then we'll have to strip down to our underwear, and even then we won't be able to.
                2. VlK
                  0
                  21 July 2026 16: 34
                  These are all rather peacetime measures, but we're not currently living in a declared war with NATO, meaning we're living under peacetime laws with freedom of navigation. And more often than not, the very presence of a warship in the area prevents anyone from arresting vessels on the high seas under trumped-up pretexts. So how could we even theoretically accomplish this, with only naval aviation, coastal missile systems, some coast guard boats, and even submarines? This would require surface ships with adequate seaworthiness and endurance.
                  1. -1
                    21 July 2026 16: 59
                    Well, the presence can vary. Put two marines with FPV drones and MANPADS on a ship, and not a single helicopter will approach, and there will be no landing or capture. They'll have to sink it, which would be a military incident, and if the ships are under the Russian flag, it's a declaration of war. And then, you know, missiles can reach far. If they do decide to do that, they'll sink our escorting fleet, and we won't be able to do anything about it.
                    1. VlK
                      0
                      21 July 2026 17: 14
                      Well, a warship flying a national flag and a squad of marines on a civilian vessel are two completely different things, including how their opponents perceive them. And international law places strict restrictions on the armament of merchant vessels. Besides, the main incidents so far have been with vessels of the shadow fleet, to which we have no connection. How could we possibly have military protection there?
                      1. -1
                        21 July 2026 17: 22
                        So, who should our surface ships escort? Probably merchant ships flying our flag. And what would a single ship do in the Mediterranean Sea, say, if the enemy were to capture or sink our ships? It would fight bravely, like the Varyag, and then sink to the bottom. The Mediterranean, enclosed by straits, is NATO's sea, an internal one at that, and we're there because they want us to be, but they might not want to be. The Baltic is the same.
                        Quote: VlK
                        Where could our military guards come from?
                        and if it's a PMC then it's possible.
                      2. VlK
                        0
                        21 July 2026 18: 36
                        The last time, our corvette repelled a German coast guard ship from a neutral tanker in the open sea of ​​the Baltic Sea, simply by showing up and issuing a warning through a megaphone, just by its presence and a demonstration of intent. No one died, the war didn't start, the incident was over before it even began. How bad could that be?
                      3. 0
                        22 July 2026 08: 30
                        So where did that corvette go next? Are you going to assign a corvette to every tanker? We'll be left without our pants if you do that. A navy is needed to control trade routes, but it can't establish control in the Baltic Sea, much less the Mediterranean. If they wanted to, they'd block our access through the Bosphorus and the Danish Straits, and that would be it. As I wrote before, our geography is such that investing large sums of money in a navy is like stoking a furnace with oxygen.
                      4. VlK
                        -1
                        22 July 2026 10: 14
                        As far as I understand, he was there specifically monitoring trade routes in a given area, not escorting a single tanker, and arrived on signal. Our naval base in Baltiysk is conveniently located.
                        If the straits are officially closed to our country, that would be a casus belli, a pretext for declaring war—a completely different situation. And it's the navy that must resolve it, first and foremost—tanks won't be able to sail or drive there.
                      5. +1
                        22 July 2026 10: 42
                        And how will the navy resolve the Danish Straits issue, I wonder? The distance between the shores there is no more than 20 kilometers at the widest points. Our navy, if it were to attempt any action there, would be attacked by NATO aircraft within tens of minutes at most. The distances there are minimal. It's under constant surveillance. You understand what would happen to a ship if it were hit by missiles. If anything were to happen, it would be up to the missile forces and strategic aviation to decide.
                      6. VlK
                        0
                        22 July 2026 11: 52
                        I think if the straits are closed, it will all begin with an attempt to escort convoys, and then, if the ships are attacked, an attack on the bases and ports of the country that initiated the hostilities. How it will all end—who knows?
                        But without a fleet, how will you, for example, supply the Kaliningrad region if tomorrow the Baltic countries block land transit through their territory and declare their territorial waters in the Baltic closed, and "Ukrainian BEKs" or mines of unidentified origin appear in international waters?
                      7. 0
                        22 July 2026 13: 08
                        If the Baltic states block transit, how will that be any different from closing the straits? As you wrote, it's a casus belli. They'll use other means, not the navy. The navy isn't much of a threat against the backwaters; on the contrary, it's barely able to defend itself. Backwaters are destroyed by aircraft and drones. If they lay mines, that's a declaration of war, and they require minesweepers, not frigates and corvettes costing billions, not rubles. And the Baltic states won't do anything on their own, only as part of the NATO alliance. And what NATO can do against the navy with its powerful air force is something they should imagine. And it would take them a while to do that in the Baltics, where the distances are really short—it's not like an ocean with 1000 kilometers, really, really short. Therefore, in my opinion, it's only ground forces, aviation, and the Strategic Missile Forces.
                      8. VlK
                        0
                        22 July 2026 13: 58
                        If the Baltic countries block transit, how will this be different from closing the straits?
                        I think it's because they have every right to do so within their own territory and territorial waters, although transit is regulated by interstate agreements, and international waters are under common jurisdiction, not under anyone's national jurisdiction. Although I haven't looked into this specifically.
                        You're right about that - I think for us this will be the same reason for war, although looking at the indecisiveness and vagueness of our VPR, it's difficult to predict its response.
                      9. +1
                        22 July 2026 13: 10
                        This means we need to attack first, including aircraft at airfields.
                        In a global war, white starts and wins - it's an axiom, the question is the price.
                        You can't fight "in response"!
                      10. 0
                        22 July 2026 13: 15
                        What are we supposed to attack with? Missiles? Why, for example, are there ships worth billions of rubles in the Baltic or Black Sea? If they can use ground-based systems or aircraft.
                      11. +1
                        22 July 2026 13: 28
                        Different flight times, different efficiency.
                        In fact, the formula for better air defense coincides with the formula for freedom of navigation in the straits.
                      12. +1
                        22 July 2026 14: 36
                        Yes, the flight time varies, but destroying ground forces is much more difficult than a single cruiser or frigate. Because if an enemy were to simultaneously attack ships in the Baltic or Black Seas that the enemy is tracking in real time, not a single missile from the ship would hit. But they wouldn't be able to pull off the same against aircraft or ground forces. Now, consider how much a single Moskva-class cruiser represents in a missile brigade or aircraft squadron. To put that into perspective, in 2016, the cost of the first ship of Project 11356, the Admiral Essen, was estimated at $200 million (1 x 8 Kalibr missile systems). That's almost the equivalent of two Iskander missile brigade sets (48 missiles per salvo) or a squadron of Su-34s. So, figure out what we need more.
                      13. +2
                        22 July 2026 15: 14
                        Money isn't flowing from unbuilt ships into additional aircraft. Besides, I don't see any benefit from any of these Su-27s except the Su-57s in the event of a war in Europe. Even now, they're afraid to operate over enemy territory.
                      14. -1
                        22 July 2026 16: 54
                        Aren't they afraid of ships?
                      15. 0
                        23 July 2026 10: 20
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        I don't see any use for any of these Su-27s except the Su-57 in the event of a war in Europe. Even now, they're afraid to operate over enemy territory.

                        What about air defense systems, especially against WWI targets (cruise ships, aircraft, UAVs)? What about the means of delivering anti-aircraft missiles to launch sites without entering their air defense kill zones?
                        The Su-57 is certainly a versatile fighter, but it's not really meant for routine tasks, is it? Like air defense, where the Su-35S and Su-30SM2 (with Irbis missiles) serve as ersatz AWACS, due to the lack of adequate numbers of A-50Us (not to mention the A-100s). And throwing FABs and UMPK missiles from external slings is definitely not what the Su-57 needs. That, too, is routine.
                        For combat aviation to represent power, it simply must exist. And in the required/necessary/sufficient quantities and variety. Because the lack of specialized ELINT, EW, ASW, and AWACS aircraft often nullifies or seriously limits the capabilities of strike and fighter aircraft. So, aircraft are like the mothers in the nursery rhyme: "Different types are needed, different types are important."

                        The pilots aren't "afraid" to fly over enemy territory, and they don't have any orders. Or rather, they do, but it's an order prohibiting such flights. But they've been flying for almost the entirety of 2022.
                        Besides, a war with Europe would only be nuclear, and after a preemptive (or at worst a retaliatory) strike against their entire military infrastructure, it wouldn't really matter whether it's a 4th or 5th-generation MFI strutting its stuff over the Euro-HMD. There would be no one to respond. Practically no one.
                        But the Su-57 is very important for the initial period of a war – for penetrating and suppressing enemy air/missile defenses, intercepting enemy aircraft and cruise missiles at long range and gaining air superiority, and performing special missions to destroy high-priority pinpoint targets – at the outset and on the very eve of a war. So we need at least 300 to 500 of these multifunctional fighters. Currently, there are about 100 in service. This is no longer a symbolic potential, but ... we need significantly more. The same applies to the Su-75, which is currently undergoing airframe changes. I would very much like to see the changes affect the size and cross-section of the radar/IRLK fairing. I think the decision to install the Zhuk AESA, which was developed for the MiG-35S, on the Su-57 was a mistake; the Squirrel from the Su-57 should be installed. We are looking at the Lightning and understand how it should be done. Otherwise, it will be a fighter that is inherently weaker (in terms of situational awareness and detection range) than the aging and problematic F-35. And that cannot be allowed to happen.
                      16. VlK
                        -1
                        22 July 2026 13: 42
                        at least because right now we are not at war (and it is not a fact that anyone from NATO will ever decide to contact a nuclear power directly), and peaceful ships without force support "on the ground" are already being openly harassed under far-fetched pretexts.
                      17. +1
                        22 July 2026 14: 38
                        Could we provide cheaper military support if we're not fighting? Like, say, a yacht with a squad of marines. Or does it have to cost tens of billions?
                      18. VlK
                        0
                        22 July 2026 14: 57
                        Regarding pricing, you're in the wrong place. It would be even cheaper to just go to court after the fact, and maybe it will help. Why even bother estimating the potential damage to the country from disrupting maritime trade with the cost of a warship? It's unnecessary.
                      19. 0
                        22 July 2026 16: 53
                        The trial is funny, of course. But still, how will a ship break through the NATO blockade? Like the Varyag in Chemulpo Bay. Right? Why spend tens of billions? Maybe something cheaper would achieve the same result? Don't you think? And spend the money on something useful. For example, naval aviation. It's also a navy.
          2. -3
            21 July 2026 11: 16
            This delusion (denial of the need for a fleet) is justified by greed and poverty (which comes first is unknown to science)...
            Our economy can't handle 4-5 real fleets, and we don't need them at all (excluding the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet).
            The last two, for a number of objective reasons related to climate and geography, have relatively low efficiency and need to be replaced by the Aerospace Forces.
            1. 0
              21 July 2026 13: 12
              In fact, I would like to see the Red Banner Caspian Flotilla ten times larger in size than it currently is.
              It should have been sent out, in many times greater numbers, to the Sea of ​​Azov to protect merchant ships and ports from attacks, and sent out to the Volga, Don and reservoirs to protect them from attacks.
              And the quality of the equipment raises questions. Landing craft and small air defense vessels are needed in huge quantities. The barges are needed both for air defense installations and for their intended purpose, for landing troops.
              1. 0
                22 July 2026 19: 50
                Well, if we don’t need someone else’s land, not an inch, as they say...
                Then everything necessary for defense can be dug into the shore...
                Do you have a desire to storm the coast of Australia?
                If not, then why do you need a navy?
                If I set myself the task of protecting my home from hackers, I'll get a dog or buy a shotgun—why the hell would I need a nuclear submarine for that? And if evil bourgeois men try to attack, I'll launch a 100500-kiloton bomb from the well in the yard...
                Well, really, isn't the example with the anabasis "Kuzya" enough for us?
                And to be honest, Sinop, Chesma, and the rest are completely out of the question because the Turks are just as weak as us...
                And what is there to appeal to?
                What is there to be fiercely proud of?
                At best, the marines were on land and very rarely used long-range artillery.
            2. 0
              22 July 2026 19: 31
              Aha
              Three Gulchitais at once, without revealing their faces, left imprints of torn asses)
              No problem - if they can read, then in time they will master the thought process...
              All these smoking chimneys, waving flags and burning polished copper - it's just a good way to steal from the treasury.

          3. -1
            21 July 2026 11: 24
            First, we need to understand who needs this fleet in the first place. There's no class or layer of society that needs a fleet. Does the state need one? Perhaps only as a component of the strategic nuclear forces and its support.
            As a positive example, look at our pride—our icebreaker fleet. What they've built and will build there, in tons and horsepower, would be enough for two full-fledged strike groups. Now the question is: who needs this fleet and why?
            1. 0
              21 July 2026 12: 10
              The question is interesting.
              Since I am directly involved in this task, I cannot vouch for objectivity.
              We traditionally have a northern infrastructure, the supply and export of which can only be carried out by sea.
              A very specialized fleet exists for this purpose, with icebreakers, including nuclear-powered ones, built to escort it. Ice-class vessels are currently being designed and built to carry out shuttle transport operations in polar seas.
              An economic analysis in the spirit of "market economics" shows the unprofitability of any measures in this direction. At the same time, when the scale of the task is expanded, the same analysis shows the inevitability of national economic collapse if these measures are not taken. So, a choice must be made between the options available.
              On my own behalf, I would propose that our entire North be concessioned to Rosatom and its division, Rosatomflot, to transfer this task to the State, with the issuance of licenses for the development of this region to business structures.
              As for the carrier strike group, the only theater of operations where they can prove themselves in the current reality is the Pacific Ocean. But I'm afraid that's an impossible task for today's Russia.
      3. +5
        21 July 2026 08: 32
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        However, the concept of construction is not determined at the level of the Black Sea Fleet command.
        If anyone thought it out at all? request
        Now our management has a completely different direction foreign policy...

        aha Yes fundamentally different from our perceptions as citizens of this country. Sometimes it even seems that THEY have a diametrically opposed approach (both in thoughts and in actions !!) what
        1. +2
          21 July 2026 09: 37
          Quote: Vl Nemchinov
          Sometimes it just seems like THEY have a completely opposite direction.

          "Note, I did not suggest it!" (from)
        2. 0
          21 July 2026 13: 18
          Do you think the fleets and flotillas simply brushed aside landing craft and boats without thinking? You can't send a barge to parade, and you'll have to die in the amphibious assault for real.
          And then it suddenly turned out that there was no way to deliver air defense systems to Zmeiny Island, not even a floating vessel with a crane.
          And so, the theorists here will proudly tell you that landing operations are outdated and unnecessary.
    3. + 11
      21 July 2026 08: 30
      In principle, excuses can always be creatively invented.


      Of course. For example, first, the country moved the clock forward an hour, and scientifically justified it. And then they moved it the other way, and scientifically justified it again.
      Even a bad dancer's legs get in the way.
      And it seems that the Black Sea Fleet is being hindered by ships.
      It's mind-boggling how a fleet can't fight off boats that are vulnerable to fire from everything, and yet they only travel tens of kilometers to their target, making noise "all over the ocean."
      And attempts to destroy them, judging by the videos posted, are being carried out manually, with low effectiveness. It's the 21st century. And there are still no tracking or homing systems?
      High-ranking officials have repeatedly claimed that the army has 100-500% modern equipment. Yet, even in the base's waters, they fire manually.
      Empty words, empty promises, empty heads. Except the pockets are good. Full.
      1. +2
        21 July 2026 12: 05
        Quote: Podvodnik
        It's mind-boggling how a fleet can't fight off boats that are vulnerable to fire from everything, and yet they only travel tens of kilometers to their target, making noise "all over the ocean."

        The article states this directly:
        Accordingly, it can be argued that if the Black Sea Fleet's construction had been carried out "from the ground up," that is, by rebuilding the operational capability to protect naval bases from surprise attacks by enemy navies and their sabotage assets, followed by expansion to other missions, the Ukrainian BEF would not have achieved any significant success. Unfortunately, the lack of a systematic approach to naval construction, and this applies not only to the Black Sea Fleet, has led to completely unnecessary losses that could have been avoided.

        It is the Water Area Guard (OVR) that should be responsible for defending ships at base and on the approaches to the base. But the OVR is now a mere shell of its former self. Suffice it to say, its fleet dates back to the days of dear Mikhail Sergeyevich, or perhaps even Yuri Vladimirovich, and hasn't been modernized since. New TSCHs are being built at a teaspoon per hour, and are already a generation behind schedule. And the new MPCs, or rather corvettes, were commissioned by the Navy Commander-in-Chief back in 2014. A non-ceremonial service, non-ceremonial ships...
        Moreover, even with the presence of a special anti-ship missile defense system, protecting ships in Novorossiysk is extremely difficult. Because the naval base is located right next to Russia's largest port, which has heavy shipping traffic. The unmanned anti-ship missile defense systems must be somehow isolated and destroyed without damaging the ships. Essentially, the Novorossiysk special anti-ship missile defense system is like a guard post for a military unit located in an Ozon or Wildberries warehouse. smile
        1. 0
          21 July 2026 13: 23
          Is it really that hard to build lighthouse-like towers along the coast to house radars, guns, and missiles? So they can observe the BEKs and single them out from the crowd? Is building towers for port defense really that much of a stretch?
          1. 0
            22 July 2026 11: 12
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Is it really that hard to build lighthouse-like towers along the coast to house radars, guns, and missiles? So they can observe the BEKs and single them out from the crowd?

            Yes, yes. And then do the exercise "Shooting at Sudden Targets." The targets are unmanned combat vessels maneuvering between stationary and moving vessels.
            Unmanned combat aircraft need to be encountered not off the coast, but at sea. This requires a systematic approach—early detection, identification, targeting, and long-range engagement. We need reconnaissance UAVs with night vision capabilities and similar attack UAVs. And most importantly, a system that integrates data from various sources and provides operators with precise coordinates, course, and speed of targets. It's somewhat similar to air defense, but at sea. smile
            1. 0
              22 July 2026 12: 28
              It's clear that it's preferable to meet the BEFs as they approach. But if they've broken through, then shouldn't they be met at the port? Let them do their job? Defenses should be built at all points, including onshore.
              1. 0
                22 July 2026 14: 31
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                It's clear that it's preferable to meet BECs as they approach. But if they've broken through, then shouldn't they be met at the port? Let them do their job?

                Of course not. It's simply impossible to build a base defense solely on a single last line of defense. This line, like in a naval air defense system, must be purely finishing—destroying individual targets that have penetrated the previous layers of the defense system. Otherwise, due to the defenders' short reaction time and the large number of restricted sectors (other ships and vessels, the base's infrastructure, and the surrounding terrain), the defense will quickly be overwhelmed with targets or breached in those very sectors.
                1. 0
                  22 July 2026 15: 03
                  Coastal defenses are much easier to establish than those at sea. The resources for such defenses are more readily available and cheaper. That's why the lack of coastal defenses is surprising. At least a mound or raised embankment could be quickly constructed and a tank or infantry fighting vehicle mounted on it. A modern tank is armed not only with ATGMs but also with guided missiles. And it's unlikely the crew will be helpless in repelling attacks from unmanned aerial vehicles.
                  Anti-aircraft guns are generally versatile, capable of attacking both drones and unmanned aerial vehicles. At one point, the Tunguska cost much less than a tank. Where are they along the coast?
            2. 0
              22 July 2026 19: 54
              What does the sea have to do with it?
              The sky is one for all -- the Aerospace Forces rule
  6. + 20
    21 July 2026 05: 07
    The fleet was stationed during the First World War, it was stationed during the Great Patriotic War, and it remains stationed there today. Its only shining moment was the period known as "stagnation," when it proudly took to the ocean and flexed its muscles, demonstrating the might of the Soviet state. But that time has passed. And, alas, it will never return!
    1. -5
      21 July 2026 07: 21
      Quote: Xenon
      The fleet was stationed at the bases during the First World War,

      The Black Sea Fleet accomplished all the naval tasks. It was so "standing" that the KON of its ships was higher than that of any other fleet, including the British and Germans.
      1. +7
        21 July 2026 08: 37
        Greetings, Andrew!
        The article is good, it reminds me of a speech by a lawyer who is trying to negotiate a sum of five rubles from a murderer who has two or more people killed.
        The main task of the Black Sea Fleet at all times was to ensure dominance in the Black Sea and the ability to support the landing of troops with subsequent supply at any part of the coast.
        During the Crimean War, the mission failed due to the cowardice of Nicholas I.
        During the First World War, the task failed due to the cowardice of the ground forces and the stupidity of Nicholas II.
        In the current campaign, the task has failed due to the degradation of the Armed Forces under the influence of "reforms" and the betrayal of the top brass.
        So there can be no talk of any leniency towards the guilty.
        1. 0
          21 July 2026 11: 14
          Our General Staff, instead of organizing the rout of the enemy, is busy coordinating the actions of squads and platoons. What are we surprised about?
        2. +1
          21 July 2026 11: 26
          In both cases, we do not take into account the technical superiority of the enemy?
      2. +1
        21 July 2026 10: 42
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The Black Sea Fleet accomplished all the naval tasks. It was so "standing" that the KON of its ships was higher than that of any other fleet, including the British and Germans.
        The KOH value is equivalent to the average temperature in the room. wink
        1. -1
          21 July 2026 11: 20
          Quote: Xenon
          The KOH value is equivalent to the average temperature in the room.

          What?:)))))))
          "Empress Maria" spent 125 of its 407 days at sea in the fleet. Please name a British/German battleship or battlecruiser, or anyone else, that used such a KON during WWI.
    2. -2
      21 July 2026 07: 47
      Quote: Xenon
      and the Great Patriotic War

      During WWII, the fleet landed over 100 troops. It protected Arctic convoys. It secured the lifeline to Leningrad. It evacuated Odessa and Sevastopol. And its submarines hunted enemy transports.

      If we take World War II as a whole, entire naval battles were fought there. They were the main strategic engagements between the Axis powers and our Western allies.
      1. +1
        21 July 2026 09: 39
        Quote: Stas157
        If we take World War II as a whole, entire naval battles were fought there. They were the main strategic engagements between the Axis powers and our Western allies.

        All these strategic battles took place with the participation of aircraft carriers...it was aviation that determined victory in both the Pacific Ocean and the Mediterranean Sea.
      2. +1
        21 July 2026 10: 45
        Quote: Stas157
        If we take the Second World War as a whole, then entire naval battles were fought there.
        This is all true only for the Pacific theater. Hence the Americans' love of aircraft carriers. wink
    3. +1
      21 July 2026 16: 01
      Quote: Xenon
      The fleet was stationed at bases during the First World War.

      BF - yes. ChF - no.
      In the Baltic, the Sevas never fired a single shot at enemy ships during the entire war. In fact, the only naval engagement the Sevas ever engaged in was during the Civil War—on May 31, 1919, the Petropavlovsk opened fire with its main and secondary guns on British destroyers pursuing the destroyer Azard. Essentially, the only combat involved was forces in the Gulf of Riga (where the Slava could only go at most) and minelaying groups. The cruisers also engaged enemy ships once, driving a German minelayer onto the Swedish coast.
      The scale of the fleet's operations in the Baltic is evidenced by the fact that the number of "memorable battles of WWI" in this theater of operations includes a battle between one Russian destroyer and two German ones. wink
      The Black Sea Fleet's fleet fought and fought actively. Even in the pre-battleship era, the EBR brigade wasn't afraid to engage the Goeben in combat. The Empresses managed to exchange fire with the Goeben, chase the Breslau, and shell the Ugolny District. The fleet landed troops and provided fire support for the army's coastal flank—and the Rostislav did this alone, which speaks volumes about who dominated the sea.
      1. +1
        22 July 2026 20: 13
        You made my day, I remembered my youth))
        At our (St. Petersburg university) the history of the CPSU was taught by a former naval officer.
        Well, what could be simpler? I came to the exam and changed the topic of conversation to the Baltic Fleet, flags, anchors, etc.
        And in the end it was “good” (the ticket was for who knows what – some kind of party conference and I don’t remember what else).
        I ask - for what!!!?? (What a cheeky fellow)
        The answer killed me - the teacher says, I'm upset that you're all talking about the Baltic, but meanwhile, on the Black Sea, where I served, the revolutionary traditions were no worse)))
  7. -4
    21 July 2026 05: 17
    Until a drone equipped with air-to-ground and air-to-air missiles and radar is adopted, there will be no rescue from the backwaters. Using aircraft and helicopters is dangerous and expensive. The situation with underwater backwaters cannot be improved at all; all you have to do is set up nets there. hi
    1. +2
      21 July 2026 06: 26
      Orion was created a long time ago and even flies with parcels...
    2. 0
      21 July 2026 06: 35
      Quote: Penza takes revenge
      Until a drone with air-to-ground and air-to-air missiles and radar is adopted into service, there will be no salvation from the Becoa

      Who's to be saved? The fleet? Why have such a fleet then?
      1. 0
        21 July 2026 07: 16
        Admirals desperately need such a fleet. But why would the fleet be confined to bases? I think the seas aren't that big, and we're remembering WWII. Without UAVs, aviation alone would greatly complicate the work of large ships, from destroyers to battleships. But what's stopping submarines from being used is a question.
  8. +2
    21 July 2026 05: 24
    Where does it say that NATO AWACS has the right to conduct reconnaissance and guide weapons, missiles, and UAVs over Russian territory? In that case, they are a direct participant in the conflict. And where in which treaties does it say that in that case, we don't have the right to shoot them down? NATO space reconnaissance is a different matter. Here, too, we have the right, at least, to blind them. Another question is why aren't our ships armed with the same UAVs on wire? On land, they already fly over 50 km—a good distance for detecting and destroying unmanned aerial vehicles. The Navy has naval aviation; why doesn't it patrol Crimea and shoot down UAVs? Almost all fixed-wing fighters can be detected by radar and destroyed. Constructively, everything can be criticized. Maybe we need to look for the next Ushakov or Kuznetsov who can lead the fleet to new victories over the enemy.
    1. + 11
      21 July 2026 05: 32
      Quote: V.
      Maybe we need to look for another Ushakov or Kuznetsov who can lead the fleet to new victories.
      We need to look for the next Stalin, and the Ushakovs, Kuznetsovs and Zhukovs will appear themselves
      1. -3
        21 July 2026 07: 32
        Stalin of 1945 and Stalin of 1913 are different people. There may be a potential "Stalin" next to you, but you don't recognize him.
        1. +8
          21 July 2026 07: 39
          Quote: Gardamir
          There may be a potential "Stalin" next to you, but you don't recognize him.
          The current personnel and role system in the country is such that no potential
          "Stalin" simply won't be given a chance. Just like any decent person.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 10: 50
            So they didn't give the original Stalin a chance.
            He took his own way. And ruled like a MASTER. And he selected his inner circle not based on greed, but on efficiency and effectiveness.
          2. +2
            21 July 2026 11: 03
            Quote: Schneeberg
            The current personnel and role system in the country is such that no potential
            "Stalin" simply won't be given a chance. Just like any decent person.

            True. The system of local government, abolished in the 17th century, has been reinstated. Now, positions are awarded not based on merit, but on one's closeness to Putin.
          3. 0
            21 July 2026 11: 30
            It was the same in the Russian Empire, if not harsher – a caste society, the degeneration of etiquette, marginalization, suppression, and isolation of dissent. And then something changed. And it was precisely these "losers and renegades," "self-taught and barbarians," marginalized by the previous regime, who saved Russia. But in reality, they were naturals. Stalin and Dzerzhinsky were such naturals. As were many of their comrades.
            1. -1
              21 July 2026 13: 20
              Quote: bayard
              It was the same in the Russian Empire, if not more severe - a caste society, degeneration of etiquette, marginalization, suppression and isolation of dissenters.

              So, a caste society? In the Russian Empire, even ordinary commoners occasionally became generals. And quite often, people rose to the top not by being sycophants, but by their intelligence.
              1. 0
                21 July 2026 19: 02
                Even now, this happens sometimes. It's an exception, but it happens. So, "it's just like under Nicholas II."
                This could be called either a caste or a class society. Look at the successes of the USSR under Stalin, under unprecedentedly difficult conditions. And compare them with the achievements of the "new aristocracy." The country's authorities need New Blood, social optimism, and a leap into the Future, not the swagger of untalented children. Even geniuses give nature a break, and in the 90s, it wasn't geniuses who rose to the top, but froth and trash.
                1. 0
                  22 July 2026 07: 18
                  In the Russian Empire, talented people still had more chances to break through than in Putin's Russia.
                  1. +1
                    22 July 2026 09: 01
                    Now, after training, veterans of the SVO are being appointed to positions of responsibility. United Russia's list of State Duma candidates includes many veterans and heroes of the SVO. These are no longer athletes, singers, or other oligarchic protégés. And they weren't born with a "golden spoon." Don't idealize what was overthrown with glee, but remembered with disgust and contempt. And this is precisely about the system, the order, the social mobility, and the tyranny of officials and rich kids. Now Struna, a Hero of Russia, is slogging it out for parliament, and there are many others like him. And comparing the cognitive abilities of Nik-2 and VVP... well, it's somehow completely frivolous. A rich kid who screwed up the Empire, and the son of a simple soldier, who became president and world leader. He didn't change the order, but he didn't establish it, he didn't build the vertical. But now he's ruling it. Maybe something will work out.
                    Quote: Prometey
                    Putin's erefiya.

                    Maybe under Chubais, Gref, Nabiullina, and before that, Nevzlin? Are you sure you know how power works?
                    1. +1
                      23 July 2026 07: 36
                      Quote: bayard
                      Are you sure you know how power works?

                      I'm sure. The civil service law doesn't work. Filling vacancies in government agencies is a sham, a sham competition with predetermined results, a revived system of parochialism, where top positions are awarded to people especially close to the "zeroed" ones.
                      Quote: bayard
                      United Russia has a lot of veterans and heroes of the Soviet military. These are no longer athletes, singers, or other oligarchic stooges.

                      Paradoxically, there are patriots in United Russia, not many, but they exist. But they're kept around temporarily and then thrown out. Take Zhanna Ryabtseva, for example, who uncovered billions in embezzlement from environmental projects. She's already a real nuisance to her own party members, because if they dig deeper, the threads will lead to the Kremlin. She was even removed from the party lists for the upcoming elections, and is running in a single-mandate constituency. It's surprising she's still alive after all the fuss she's stirred up. Including veterans of the North Caucasus Military District is a purely populist measure. The elections will be over, and they'll be quickly thrown out; this has happened more than once. Putin's system, completely mired in lies for 20 years, doesn't like honest people.
                      Quote: bayard
                      And compare the cognitive abilities of Nick-2

                      The Russian Empire isn't just Nicholas II. Why are you so picky about him?
                      1. -1
                        23 July 2026 12: 07
                        Quote: Prometey
                        Sure.

                        I have to disappoint you. You have no idea about the nature and structure of power, including in the Russian Federation. On the surface, everything looks that way, but that's precisely for the outsider, for whom it's all designed. I mentioned some names, but you didn't notice them. Putin didn't build the vertical power structure; it was formed as purely colonial and comprador by completely different, external forces. Even a character like Jacob Rothschild wouldn't tell you anything, I suppose. And that's a shame.
                        So, on the surface, you perceive everything correctly, but you have no idea about the true nature and structure of power. That's why you're making complaints to the wrong people and to the wrong people. And that's what matters.
                        Quote: Prometey
                        The Russian Empire isn't just Nicholas II. Why are you so picky about him?

                        So you're latching on VVP, and these figures are completely unequal. Nikolai No. 2 was de jure an autocrat, wielding absolute power in the Empire, but he was... a weak-willed DyR@40k. He had every right and opportunity, but he destroyed the Empire, killed tens of millions of people, lost wars, allowed/missed several coups/revolutions, and was so despised by society at the time of his abdication... And it was under him that such personalities as Ulyanov-Lenin, Dzhugashvili-Stalin, Dzerzhinsky, and all the others were formed and strengthened. It was his General Staff that was led and staffed by such people as Generals Manikovsky, Verkhovsky, Potapov, Brnch-Bruyevich, and many others. Do you even know that the Bolsheviks came to power solely thanks to the support and assistance of the General Staff of the Russian Empire, and that the General Staff subsequently defected almost entirely to the Bolshevik Party? That they created the Red Army and won the Civil War, throwing out the interventionists? That at the very beginning of the Civil War, at least 30% of the officer corps fought on the side of the "Reds," and by the eve of the "Warsaw campaign," over 40% of the officer corps of the Russian Empire had done so? No? But I studied, served, and generally lived with their descendants.
                        Quote: Prometey
                        Putin's system, completely drowned in lies for 20 years, does not like honest people.

                        And what about the Romanovs? Especially during the reign of Nikolka? They were and are.
                        Do you even understand how deeply Gorbachev and Yeltsin damaged Russia after the collapse of the USSR? The complete loss of sovereignty wasn't even the tip of the iceberg, it was the bud. Just as you don't know about the attempts to regain sovereignty that were made, nor the consequences of those attempts. You also don't know how the pool of "new owners" of Russia was formed on a trust basis, who handled personnel issues for the "new Russia," how assets were distributed, and how great and decisive the influence of external interests was.
                        Look at the vectors of both characters. Nikolai's is steadily declining, rapidly spiraling downward, while the other (no matter how you look at it) is steadily ascending. They failed to reverse the situation in 2005 and restore financial sovereignty to the country (a key objective and a marker of sovereignty), people died, and they had to roll back the measures. But they managed to set the conditions and defend them. They managed to monetize the economy from a paltry 4% of GDP to 40% in 10 years. Do you remember what economic growth and living standards were like during that period? Until the end of 2014? How Putin constantly demanded that the government increase public sector wages faster than expected, "and others will follow suit." And they did. Remember what plans for the average per capita income were made back then for the near term?
                        And how did the Enemy respond?
                        The coup in Ukraine and the rampant terror against the Russian population of this historical part/territory torn away from Russia.
                        And how did Russia respond?
                        The return of Crimea.
                        But it wasn't drawn into the war that was prepared for it - the rearmament of the army was just beginning then, the Russian Federation had practically no army at that time. But it had strategic nuclear forces.
                        Did Shoiga sabotage the development and rearmament of the Army?
                        Whose man is he? Why did the higher-ups call him a "blood prince"? Didn't they notice how much he resembled his father? And who was Wagner (Utkin) trying to save from the coup during the March for Justice? Whose charter flights were those flying out of Moscow like migratory birds? And the coup was thwarted. And within a year, the Ministry of Defense was purged of crooks, spies, and scoundrels... The military-industrial complex got back up and running, and the army's supplies improved.
                        Why does the SVO take so long?
                        Because we didn't determine its scale and timing. This war was forced upon us, knowing our unpreparedness for a large-scale conventional conflict. That's why, when the Central Military District (CMD) as a special operation to change power in the former Soviet Union failed and devolved into a drawn-out conflict, a decision was made to wage it... with the least possible intensity, while continuing to rearm and deploy the Army for a much larger conflict, which we cannot avoid. Look at what the Russian Armed Forces were like before the CMD and what they are like now. Look at the deployed capacities and capabilities of the military-industrial complex, and compare them to what they were before. Look at the consumption of missiles, shells, FABs with UMPK, attack UAVs of all types. More than 50 countries arm and supply the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and the Russian Army is advancing and inflicting such damage... the irreparable losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have already exceeded 2,5 million people. And that's without taking into account foreign mercenaries, of whom there are also many. This is already more than the losses of the British and French armies in WWI. And note that until 2026, most "dear Russians" didn't even notice that the country was at war. They knew, but they didn't notice, they didn't feel it.
                        And now the nature of war has changed again. Now everyone can see and feel it. But it's 50+ against one. Although we definitely have one ally and have proven it in practice. We also have a member of a union state. But look how the Russian Armed Forces have changed over the years. How many combat aircraft have the Aerospace Forces received over these years? Last year alone, the industry delivered 126 heavy (only heavy!) fighters to customers. And of those, only 18 were exported to Algeria. And how many submarines has the Russian Navy received? Without specifying the number – more than the USA, France, and England combined. This year, the nuclear cruiser Admiral Nakhimov is returning to service after a thorough modernization. Serial production of the newest non-nuclear submarines "Lada" on a submarine-launched submarine with a radically increased underwater endurance, sonar system, and avionics has been launched. There are so many Tsirkon missiles in stock that they're deployed not only on ships and submarines, but also on ground-based launchers and are being used extensively in the Air Defense Forces. A new light Iskander-1000 IRBM with a range of 1200-1300 km and a nuclear warhead has appeared, as has the heavy Oreshnik IRBM, which carries 36 nuclear warheads of 150 kt each over a range of 2000 km, and six nuclear warheads over a range of 5500 km+. These are our gifts to NATO, which we didn't have at the beginning of 2022, but now we do. Meanwhile, NATO hasn't developed anything even remotely comparable in the same period.
                        So perhaps it wasn't for nothing that the Russian Armed Forces switched to "Strategic Defense" in the fall of 2022? Which General Surovikin was authorized to announce? Perhaps these years of relative calm weren't wasted?
                        Have you ever figured out how many tanks from storage bases have undergone extensive modernization? Even the T-62M? And the bases are empty. Very empty. And who/what are these tanks being stored for?
                        Well, think about it.
                        And in the elections (not even advice, but a recommendation), vote for "A Just Russia." Simply because M. Delyagin, the party's brains, is there. This will be your protest vote, but the right one.
                      2. +2
                        23 July 2026 12: 55
                        Sergey, don't waste your time.
                        Quote: bayard
                        It was not Putin who built the vertical power structure; it was formed as exclusively colonial and comprador by completely different, external forces.

                        A man considers himself an expert in air defense (but there he probably really is one), in economics, politics, navy, history...
                        At the same time, he has no idea how all this actually works.
                2. -1
                  22 July 2026 19: 56
                  Quote: bayard
                  Look at the successes of the USSR during Stalin's period

                  Stalin is not immortal.
                  1. -2
                    23 July 2026 03: 02
                    Stalin was not alone.
                    And before Stalin, there was Sharapov, whose development and reform programs were implemented under Stalin.
                    Call Stalin and he will come.
                    Under Stalin, SMART people were raised to power.
                    And then the bloody buffoon Khrushchev climbed to the throne. And since then we've been "walking on our heads."
                    1. 0
                      23 July 2026 19: 25
                      Quote: bayard
                      Stalin was not alone.

                      But after his death, the entire system went downhill. Yes, the USSR was still capable of much, but the process was continuous.
                      1. 0
                        23 July 2026 20: 11
                        The USSR lost too many people during WWII/World War II. The best people. In a protracted war, the best are always the first to die. But the filth, not cleaned out in evacuations and warm places, and even in camps, survived, fattened up, and after Stalin's death, when Khrushchev began an immediate purge of Stalin's best leadership cadres, took the places of these best. And so began the "Khrushchev slush."
                        What do you expect if the careers of those who participated in Khrushchev's purges, in the conspiracy and murder of L.P. Beria (there was no arrest, his house was simply stormed, he was killed and his body was taken away, wrapped in a carpet) have been ruined. A neighbor told Sergo Beria about this. Sergo himself was saved only by the fact that he was an extremely valuable specialist - a developer of domestic air defense systems.
                        So it's no surprise that after the murder of the Master of the House, the bandits instituted completely different rules and customs, and the house, even though very sturdy, eventually fell apart. After all, Khrushchev didn't build, he destroyed. Brezhnev, while he made amends and corrected some of the flaws and quirks, didn't restore Stalin's norms; he simply delayed the catastrophe. And the spies Andropov and Gorbachev, however, finished off the country with a forced tempo. This isn't a slip of the tongue or a typo; Andropov was indeed a spy, and a hereditary one at that. Moreover, he was related on his mother's side to Sverdlov and Yagoda. He was also the nephew of the head of Moscow's main jewelry house, on Lubyanka, which later became the headquarters of the KGB. And they didn't even remove the family crest from the gate, but made it the "KGB USSR coat of arms" – the very same "Shield and Sword." That's why Andropov was nicknamed "Jeweler" in the KGB, and the old-timers didn't consider him one of their own; he came there from the Komsomol. He spent the entire Great Patriotic War in the rear, hiding from the war... But under Khrushch, his career took off, and under Brezhnev, he even pulled a fast one with his appointment as head of the KGB. So after the deaths of Stalin and Beria, the arrests of Sudoplatov and Etingon... everything went on as usual. The traitors were terrified of exposure, waiting for the veterans to pass away, for the generations to come, so that they could rely on the "Komsomol youth" to abandon Socialism under the guise of "convergence" and steal all the wealth, the entire country and its assets, for themselves and Jacob. Remember their names? Abramovich, Khodorkovsky, Nevzlin, the trade unionist Gusinsky, the mathematics professor Berezovsky, Deripaska, and others like them. I knew some of them. And it was precisely when they began to rake in the country's assets as Jacob Rothschild's "trustees."
                      2. +1
                        23 July 2026 20: 28
                        Quote: bayard
                        The USSR lost too many people during WWII/World War II.

                        So what? People are mortal, even without wars. And what you write about what happened afterward proves precisely that the system didn't work.
                      3. -1
                        23 July 2026 21: 45
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        the system didn't work.

                        The system simply ceased to exist. It was liquidated. The very system that had given the USSR such a colossal advantage in the quality of public administration, planning, security, and the education of new generations. All of this was either completely destroyed, or replaced by dummies—substitutes, imitations. So in 1955, when Khrushchev finally seized power, eliminating Malenkov and his supporters, he immediately:
                        - abolished the USSR State Planning Committee,
                        - abolished the Soviet government, establishing direct party control. Ministries were abolished! The economy began to be managed by "sovnarkhozes," each region having its own.
                        - all Stalinist personnel were finally purged from power, including at the local level,
                        - separate education of boys and girls was abolished in schools (this was introduced in the USSR after the war), such a compulsory subject as "Logic" was abolished, and in general the educational system began to be consistently simplified, reduced to formalism and cramming.
                        - the party nomenclature became not only immune from prosecution, but the Prosecutor's Office, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the KGB and the OBKhSS were forbidden from conducting surveillance, opening cases or generally monitoring the activities of party functionaries in any way.
                        - all production cooperatives and artels were immediately nationalized, individual labor activity under a patent was prohibited. The USSR economy suddenly lost its diversity, the country plunged into an abyss of shortages of consumer goods and services, craftsmen and high-quality goods disappeared, industry lost feedback from consumers.
                        - all cooperative stores were nationalized (some were later revived, but these were exceptional cases), restaurants, cafes, pie shops, hairdressers, sewing cooperatives, everything. The USSR turned into either a barracks or a colony.
                        I think that's enough for now. Just think about it: is there anything left in the USSR from Stalin, other than the industry he built, the army, and the people he raised? The state ceased to belong to the people; it was seized by the Trotskyist party, which even changed its name from the All-Union Communist Party (Bolshevik Party) to some faceless CPSU (Communist Party of the Soviet Union). And the invaders themselves were only thinking about how to privatize the power and property they had seized and make their own. All this happened soon after—under Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
                      4. +1
                        23 July 2026 22: 32
                        Quote: bayard
                        The system simply no longer exists. It was liquidated.

                        And? The system rested on one man. It's gone, they eliminated it. It's just a matter of terminology, the essence remains the same.
                      5. -1
                        23 July 2026 23: 12
                        Did you read it inattentively?
                        The Trotskyist underground, which survived and did not perish during the Great Patriotic War, seized power first in the party (Stalin headed the state, Khrushchev was the first secretary, and this was a third-rate position, the party was pushed to the periphery, the government ran the country. After Stalin's death, Khrushchev seized power, first by killing Beria, then by removing Malenkov through apparatus games, and then by purging Stalin's cadres, he destroyed the entire System - the System of State Administration. That system is no more. It was killed. If someone hits you on the head with a crowbar from around the corner... will it be your fault? Why is your head so weak?
                        Trotsky was exiled from the country in the late 20s. His supporters (this is a generalized view; before that, the permanent wing was led by Sverdlov) rocked the country with terror and sabotage, and only managed to purge them from the government by the end of 1938, and even then only partially—WWII was beginning. Then came the war, in which the elite of the Bolshevik Party perished, while the permanentists hid in the rear. They waited until Stalin's death and took their revenge.
                        How old are you that you don't know such trivial things? Youth can justify such "naivety", but judging by your timing on the site, you don't seem to be a real young man with an unfinished education.
                        I'm too lazy to read, listen to Spitsyn's lectures so as not to bother me with your naivety.
                      6. +1
                        24 July 2026 17: 04
                        Quote: bayard
                        The Trotskyist underground, which survived and did not perish in the Great Patriotic War, seized power first in the party

                        So whose problem is this, Nicholas II?
                        Quote: bayard
                        If someone hits you on the head with a crowbar from around the corner... will it be your fault?

                        One person and a state are two different things.
                      7. +1
                        24 July 2026 19: 11
                        When the Bolshevik Party came to power, it was by no means a monolith of like-minded individuals. It must be remembered that it was a very small party, with a small membership before 1917, and among them there were not many people capable of governing the state. After February and Lenin's return to Russia, a great many shady characters crept into their party, starting with Trotsky (he was dragged into the party and the Central Committee by Sverdlov), who was a long-standing ideological enemy and opponent of Lenin. Not to mention figures of lesser stature. And they didn't come to power alone, but together with the Left Socialist-Revolutionary Party, whose cadres occupied government positions on par with the Bolsheviks. After the suppression of the Left Socialist-Revolutionary rebellion, they remained in the state apparatus, but simply defected to the Bolshevik Party in order to preserve their positions. Even in Lenin's inner circle, there was no unanimity or clear program. They came to power not systematically and preparedly, but spontaneously, winning it like a lottery. The General Staff simply placed its bets on them, as it needed to save the country from complete destruction and oust the Provisional Government of the Februaryists. Such was the historical collision. The General Staff contacted Stalin and Dzerzhinsky, offering its assistance in overthrowing the Provisional Government and its own program for saving the state. They agreed that the General Staff would create a new Army (since the old one had completely disintegrated and a radical overhaul was needed), and would provide intelligence, analysis, and personnel. The Bolsheviks themselves, however, would handle the ideology and construction of the new state. So, along with Stalin and Dzerzhinsky, a bunch of rogue permanent supporters who tried to seize power after Lenin's death, split into groups, fought, and were simply disposed of in several stages, rolled into power. But that was in the upper echelon. But in the middle and local levels, there were quite a lot of these canaries left. And the War was already approaching. Look at the dynamics of events. Stalin managed to build a truly Great State, of an unprecedented type. But his health was undermined during the war (he suffered three heart attacks!) and after the war, he declined greatly. From 1950 onwards, he lived mostly at his dacha, recuperating and working on the Theory of Developed Socialism. He didn't manage to finish it, but it was a very interesting work. If only they had managed to implement it... But they managed to do a lot.
                        So, due to illness and living at his dacha, he overlooked the degeneration of some of the elites, but when he saw it, he set about correcting it. He co-opted a large number of young people into the Central Committee (the cadres needed to be renewed, and these would not fail). At the next plenum, he was preparing to rotate the old cadres, removing them from the Central Committee (but without any repression). Serious economic reforms were also being prepared. He did everything he could to promote the development of personal initiative and the creation of new enterprises as production cooperatives. Model charters were written for them, and their number grew; Stalin saw the future of the socialist economy in the development of this type of enterprise.
                        But the old party members, seeing how many new Central Committee members Stalin had brought in and co-opted, became terrified, realized their freedom was coming to an end, and hatched a conspiracy. And Stalin was gone. And so began the Terror and the purges of Stalin's cadres, which followed precisely the Party line. Khrushchev led the conspiracy.
                        The USSR was the first socialist state; there was no one to follow, so all experience was gained through our own mistakes, in the context of a harsh and brutal internal political struggle between the permanentists and the Bolsheviks. At the same time, the USSR had to endure a brutal war with all of Europe united by Hitler. They suffered heavy losses, the western part of the country lay in ruins after the war, but allies appeared - countries of the socialist camp and countries with a socialist orientation. The state model of the USSR was not ideal; the country was stitched together from pieces during a series of wars and internal upheavals. A calm, peaceful time for the internal structure of the country was not enough. Under Stalin. Because what happened next was the degradation of a country whose brain was removed, whose ideology was replaced, and they began to corrupt and disorient the younger generations. And then he (the USSR) was killed. The process simply dragged on because the traitors knew that if the people realized what they had done to Stalin, his comrades, and the entire country, they would hang them from lampposts with their own hands, every single one. So they waited for the generations to change, and they were the ones raising them. And this "generation chose Pepsi." And not out of malice, but simply because they were deceived. Have you heard of "Gypsy magic"? That's something like that.
                        If Stalin had lived another 10 years, the USSR would have been impossible to circumvent, bypass, or deceive. Logic became a compulsory subject in Soviet schools back then.
                        But History does not know the subjunctive mood. It only forces us to draw the right conclusions. And if the students are careless, frivolous and stupid... they will continue to step on the rake of History.
                      8. 0
                        24 July 2026 21: 04
                        All this is wonderful, but it doesn't change the fact that without Stalin, everything immediately began to fall apart. And it's not a matter of some kind of magic, but of the fact that people remained human.
                      9. 0
                        25 July 2026 12: 02
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It's not about some kind of magic, but about the fact that people remained people.

                        Rather, people have become beasts. Remember the Chumaks, the Kashpirovskys, the "chief sorcerer of Russia" raising Lenin from the grave? Have you forgotten what a hell the country turned into by the end of Gorbachev's rule and especially after the coup: Was that really normal? Remember the gang shootouts in broad daylight in Moscow and other cities? Was that really "normal"? Or did someone make an effort? Were you alive then? How old were you? Or have you never lived in a normal country and simply have no idea what it's like?
                      10. 0
                        25 July 2026 16: 47
                        Quote: bayard
                        Rather, people have become animals.

                        Animals do not understand good and evil, but humanity does.
                        Quote: bayard
                        Or have you never lived in a normal country and simply have no idea what it’s like?

                        There was plenty of everything in the USSR too.
                      11. 0
                        25 July 2026 17: 26
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There was plenty of everything in the USSR too.

                        But I have the opportunity to compare. After all, in my service, I managed to live in the Lithuanian, Estonian, Georgian, Azerbaijani, Belarusian and Ukrainian USSR, not to mention the RSFSR. I remember because I lived then, and people were people.
                        And then they began to dehumanize them.
                        That's why the war in Donbass has been going on for 13 years, and the Central Military District for almost 4,5 years. That's why the tribal states became NATO countries, and there was a war with Georgia, and Transnistria has been under siege since the collapse of the USSR. The current comparison isn't favorable.
                        The USSR was the stronghold of Humanity on this planet.
                        He's not here now.
                      12. 0
                        25 July 2026 21: 08
                        Quote: bayard
                        I remember because I lived then, and people were people.
                        And then

                        There's no need for fairy tales. Back then, a lot was simply kept quiet.
                      13. 0
                        26 July 2026 01: 55
                        What was kept silent about? About sex and pornography? About drug addiction and prostitution? About the impunity of officials?
                      14. 0
                        26 July 2026 07: 00
                        Quote: bayard
                        About sex and pornography? About drug addiction and prostitution? About the impunity of officials?

                        It was like that.
                      15. VlK
                        0
                        24 July 2026 13: 35
                        Admiral Kuznetsov's book, "Sharp Turns," offers a fascinating insight into the principles and practices of high-level governance under Stalin in the 40s and 50s. Not everything there was as wonderful as we're now led to believe, quite the opposite, in fact. The reason is the aforementioned "system rested on one man," and not only was he physically incapable of adequately addressing all the issues, but he himself was also imperfect, to put it mildly. It's fascinating to see these systemic shortcomings illustrated through specific examples, and from someone who was well-connected to the highest circles at the time—meaning he was a direct eyewitness to what was described. It really, you know, dispels any illusions about the ideal ruler.
                      16. 0
                        24 July 2026 17: 02
                        Quote: VlK
                        Not everything there was as wonderful as they are now trying to make us believe, quite the opposite, in fact

                        I know, but at least there was a general movement, and without it everything would have completely collapsed.
                      17. 0
                        24 July 2026 19: 36
                        Kuznetsov is certainly an interesting man, but he was only a naval commander... of a rather weak fleet that was not famous for its victories in the war. With all due respect, we didn't manage to build a navy before WWII... we only just started. Because a navy takes a long time to build, and we had little time.
                        To get an idea of ​​how it all happened, I had other sources, people who were contemporaries of those events. I knew, among others, a former employee of Stalin's Gosplan, a very smart and intelligent man. And believe me, in Gosplan they knew about the plans and development of the country, its management and decision-making system better than the admiral whom Stalin removed from command of the fleet. And whom Khrushchev returned to his post on the condition of CLOSURE of all fleet construction programs. And with the demand to write memoirs pouring filth on Stalin. Often, this filth was written in not by the authors at all, but by proofreaders and editors appointed by Khrushchev's spies. I have read enough materials, including archival ones from that time. And in general, for the benefit of the matter, it is better to read Stalin himself. He was not a great speaker, but he wrote very well. He wrote wonderfully. Clearly, distinctly formulating thoughts and images. So those who know nothing about this, but have listened to liberal nonsense about the "terranean" and the "uneducated" seminarian, need to get rid of illusions. No one could appreciate his intellectual level better than the Soviet academics who knew him. Do you know their opinion? Have you heard or read it? After all, to discuss the taste of halva, you have to try it. And you haven't even seen it. If you're too lazy to read books, then at least listen to Spitsyn's lectures and programs. He's a good storyteller. Or watch a truly wonderful film about Stalin by Zakhar Prilepin. He created it after a fairly lengthy correspondence with me, and whole phrases from our dialogue were included in it. Moreover, he dug up facts (for example, about the Turukhansk exile) that I had never heard of before. Zakhar surprised me. A very pleasant surprise. The film is called "Time Forward." Find it, watch it, you won't regret it.
                      18. VlK
                        0
                        24 July 2026 21: 17
                        With all due respect, I prefer to read the memoirs of contemporaries who personally participated in the events described, rather than listen to what modern storytellers of all stripes will tell me today, presenting THEIR PERSONAL opinions and perceptions as truths they never even witnessed. I don't like fairy tales; I'm long past that age. I read various authors, compare them, and draw my own conclusions. I doubt that your Gosplan employee, undoubtedly an intelligent and erudite man, was part of the highest levels of management and directly interacted with Stalin, Molotov, Zhdanov, and other figures of similar rank. And if you haven't read Nikolai Gerasimovich's aforementioned book, I highly recommend it, along with all his other memoirs. I think you won't regret it. I also think your respect for him will only grow.
                      19. +1
                        25 July 2026 13: 54
                        Quote: VlK
                        and not listen to what modern storytellers of all stripes will tell me today, passing off THEIR PERSONAL opinions and ideas as the truth, which they did not even experience.

                        Well, naturally, I didn't live to see Stalin, but I did live to see the people who lived then. V.V. Romanov was then heading the "brainstorming group" from the Oil and Gas Research Institute under the Ministry of Oil and Gas—a leading industry specialist, a consultant to all the country's emerging oil-producing companies (and others) and their banks, including Gazprom. He wrote feasibility studies for them, prepared expert assessments and resource reports (since he was also a resource specialist). His mother was née Countess Vorontsova, and his father was a Moscow priest. My father was arrested in 1938 and executed the same day by order of the "troika" headed by Khrushchev. It was he, Khrushchev, who was primarily involved in the terror of 1937-1939, especially in Moscow ("My hands are covered in blood up to my shoulders"—his statement while already in power). Viktor Vasilyevich knew who was committing the lawlessness back then and never interfered with these ghouls under Stalin. He was a staunch communist, a brilliant man, whom his students (students who held the rank of deputy minister and deputy head of a state corporation) sometimes called a genius in conversation with me. And he not only kept the Complete Works of I.V. Stalin at home, but he also worked with these books. He used them in his professional and academic work. What struck me as surprising then, as a young man: "What practical use does this provide for a specific industry and the economy as a whole?"
                        - You take it, open it, read your choice.
                        He took a volume off the shelf, opened it at random... and was hooked.
                        He never blamed Stalin for his father's death; he knew the inner workings of those conflicts all too well. Just as I don't blame him for the exile of my mother's parents' family or the death of my great-uncle, Divisional Commander Kutyakov, commander of the 25th Shock Chapayev Division. For I, too, know exactly what happened then and what forces were clinging to Russia's defense. Our forces prevailed, the parasites retreated, and that's why Industrialization, Collectivization, and other reforms performed their unprecedented miracles, why we won the brutal war, and why we recovered from the post-war devastation in a matter of years.
                        I know how the memoirs of our commanders were written, corrected and edited, but you’d better listen to Spitsyn about this, at least his lectures.
                        I don't need any corrections to my opinion of Admiral Kuznetsov; it's quite high, but I know how memoirs were written and edited back then. Rokosovsky refused to write slanders against Stalin and fell out of favor with Khrushch: "For me, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin is a saint." Perhaps this phrase from the great marshal will give you pause.
    2. +6
      21 July 2026 05: 53
      I also don't understand, what's the problem with shooting down NATO fighters over the Black Sea?
      1. -3
        21 July 2026 06: 32
        Quote: Prometey
        I also don't understand, what's the problem with shooting down NATO fighters over the Black Sea?

        The reason is probably because they need to have at least ironclad proof that they're working for the enemy. Otherwise, destroying enemy military property is a surefire way to an even more difficult war, and what's useful for victory in that? That means the consequences of such actions will complicate the situation, not ease it. Otherwise, I think they would have been shot down long ago.
        1. +7
          21 July 2026 07: 00
          Advisor, we need real Fabergé evidence, not ironclad proof. Reconnaissance drones, aren't they proof? The Houthis and Persians are shooting them down and aren't afraid of the consequences.
          1. +6
            21 July 2026 07: 33
            The Houthis have no relatives or accounts abroad, and no one goes to them.
          2. -2
            21 July 2026 07: 59
            Quote: Bumblebee_3
            Reconnaissance drones, isn't that proof to you?

            No, how is the presence of a spy in neutral waters proof of information being passed on to the bastards? Sure, all of that is clear, but to shoot down someone with full authority and without consequences requires ironclad proof (and not everything is clear—international relations have never been based on such grounds), and that's impossible. I've already written about the rest above...
            Quote: Bumblebee_3
            The Houthis and the Persians are shooting down and are not afraid of the consequences.

            What consequences could the Houthis face? Will they take their last pants? Do they really have much to lose? laughing As for Iran, it's still unclear how it will end - "let's count our chickens before they hatch," as the wise Russian proverb goes. When the Americans, like a beaten dog and in the red (which is very important), leave there, then we'll draw conclusions... and Iran doesn't have any land-based strategic defense forces nearby anyway - they have nowhere to expect an escalation from that direction.
            1. VlK
              +2
              21 July 2026 15: 13
              but to shoot down with full right and without consequences

              Nothing comes without consequences; you need the determination to defend your interests by any means necessary, and not be afraid of losing something in return. But for now, "if something is inevitable, then..." remains just rhetoric for the public from speechwriters, rather than any real substance, then, alas. There have been attempts at intimidation before, if I'm not mistaken—an MQ9 drone was lost in an "air incident," and a British DLRO aircraft was driven off during an interception by our fighter jet south of Crimea. But the next time it arrived, it was accompanied by two of its own fighter jets, and who drove off whom during the next interception—in my opinion—remains unclear. It seems that such incidents have not been reported since then.
        2. +1
          21 July 2026 11: 05
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          otherwise, the destruction of the enemy's military property is a direct path to an even more difficult war

          Yes, by and large, world practice shows that no.
          1. +1
            21 July 2026 12: 47
            Quote: Prometey
            Yes, by and large, world practice shows that no.

            Could you share some info on who's using UAVs around the world for the Americans and not fighting them?
            1. +1
              21 July 2026 13: 17
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              Could you share some info on who's using UAVs around the world for the Americans and not fighting them?

              Iran isn't just targeting their drones, it's also targeting their military bases. Well, it seems to be holding up for now.
              1. +1
                21 July 2026 14: 39
                Quote: Prometey
                Iran isn't just targeting their drones, it's also targeting their military bases. Well, it seems to be holding up for now.

                so they fight... I asked about those who don't fight... is the US Air Force really striking us?
                1. -1
                  21 July 2026 17: 31
                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  This is how they fight..

                  No, they are not fighting.
                  1. +1
                    21 July 2026 18: 47
                    Quote: Prometey
                    No, they are not fighting.

                    Okay, since you're inviting me to "pick on commas"... are the US Air Forces carrying out strikes against the Iranian Armed Forces and its territory?
      2. +1
        21 July 2026 08: 19
        Quote: Prometey
        I also don’t understand, what’s the problem with shooting down NATO reconnaissance drones over the Black Sea?
        To do this, you need to have the character of the Houthis, and not the political correctness of the Kremlin...
        wink
        Neither Trump nor America in (immediate proximity), neither the Houthis, nor any AWACS aircraft or reconnaissance UAVs will be allowed to fly even in peacetime, and EVEN MORE SO during an armed conflict!!!
    3. +9
      21 July 2026 07: 26
      Quote: V.
      Where is it written that NATO's AWACS has the right to conduct reconnaissance and guide weapons, missiles, and UAVs over Russian territory? In that case, it is a direct participant in the conflict.

      Well, not really. The transfer of intelligence information doesn't count as such.
      Quote: V.
      And where in which contracts is it written that in this case we do not have the right to shoot them down?

      To shoot them down, you need the determination to go all the way, the determination to fight, not to conduct a strategic air defense. The country's leadership lacks such determination.
      1. 0
        21 July 2026 12: 51
        When there's no war, just watch it—intelligence is just that. Although we used to shoot down, as they say, reconnaissance planes under the communists. Now it's just guiding Flamingos through our country to their target, past air defense batteries. How are they any different, for example, from an artillery gunner or a multiple rocket launcher? I agree that there's a lack of resolve to fight and put the country on a war footing. hi
  9. -2
    21 July 2026 05: 29
    Speak well of the dead, or nothing at all.
    1. -2
      21 July 2026 05: 53
      Quote: Tlauicol
      Speak well of the dead, or nothing at all.

      The bottom of the Black Sea remembers many ships, mostly Russian ships, only two with the name "Moscow"...
      1. 0
        21 July 2026 08: 34
        And there's more Turkish stuff there. So, it turns out the countries are all right.
  10. +9
    21 July 2026 06: 32
    Well, I read and studied five of them. My conclusion: what's the point of the Black Sea Fleet then? For parades? What's the point of submarines, ships, and the like if they're afraid to put to sea to blockade Odessa? What's a submarine? Can't it launch a torpedo to block shipping? It's just a waste of budget money on this phony Black Sea Fleet. It doesn't have a single combat mission, and it never will.
    1. +3
      21 July 2026 07: 23
      Quote: Konnick
      Why do we need submarines, ships, and other things if they are afraid to go to sea to blockade Odessa?

      It is the country's leadership that is afraid, not the navy.
      1. 0
        21 July 2026 07: 34

        It is the country's leadership that is afraid, not the navy.

        This is all well and good, of course, but globally it doesn't affect anything. Right now, it's all the same whether we have the ChF or not, but when the leadership matures, the big question is whether the ChF will even exist in throwing...
        1. +2
          21 July 2026 07: 40
          Quote: spektr9
          This is all good of course, but globally it doesn’t affect anything,

          This is precisely what has a global impact. If you don't want to hammer a nail, it's not the hammer's fault. And that doesn't mean you don't need a hammer in your home.
          1. +2
            21 July 2026 08: 20

            This is precisely what has a global impact. If you don't want to hammer a nail, it's not the hammer's fault. And that doesn't mean you don't need a hammer in your home.

            Let's say this: a person who, on principle, doesn't hammer nails, doesn't need a hammer as a tool at all, and for the sake of order, yes, he'll paint his grandfather's old one and put it on the shelf to rot... If later the house goes to a new owner with hands who needs this hammer, then, having picked up the painted rotten thing from the shelf, he'll simply throw it away and start assembling a new hammer from scratch.
            Unfortunately, the situation in the Black Sea Fleet is exactly like this, and without the will of the leadership, it is useless.
      2. +4
        21 July 2026 07: 38
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        It is the country's leadership that is afraid, not the navy.

        What does the leadership have to do with this? I understand your reverent attitude toward the fleet. During WWII, the leadership sent the fleet to Poti to avoid further disgrace, and now it's to Novorossiysk. Air power can handle all the fleet's missions; the Black Sea isn't that big. Our air power, like our navy, was good in peacetime, but then, like a duck's back, it fizzled out. Why isn't the American fleet afraid of Iranian unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), while their aircraft fly over Iran and aren't afraid of the S-300? And during WWII, the 46th Attack Aviation Regiment alone sank more ships than all our fleets combined.
        1. +2
          21 July 2026 07: 49
          Quote: Konnick
          What does management have to do with this?

          Considering what I wrote in the article, the navy can't stop and inspect ships in view of the Ukrainian coast. The American navy, by the way, can't either. To blockade them, they would have to sink them without regard for the flag they're flying, and that requires a political decision.
          Quote: Konnick
          All tasks can be performed by aviation instead of the fleet,

          Inspect a ship from an airplane?:)))) How?:)))))))))
          Quote: Konnick
          Why the US Navy Isn't Afraid of Iranian Aircraft and UAVs

          Because the American fleet is a system. Aircraft carriers, air defense systems, electronic warfare aircraft, etc.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 07: 52
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Inspect a ship from an airplane?:)))) How?:)))))))))

            Why inspect, just blockade Ukraine from the sea? Or are you a supporter of the grain deal? Why inspect, just to let it through? It's insane...
            1. +1
              21 July 2026 08: 03
              Quote: Konnick
              Why inspect? Just block Ukraine from the sea.

              Once again, what do you mean by "block"? :))))
              Quote: Konnick
              Or are you a supporter of the grain deal?

              I think I wrote it in Russian
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              To blockade, you need to sink it without regard for the flag the ship is flying, and this requires a political decision.
              1. -1
                21 July 2026 08: 36
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Quote: Konnick
                Why inspect? Just block Ukraine from the sea.

                Once again, what do you mean by "block"? :))))
                Quote: Konnick
                Or are you a supporter of the grain deal?

                I think I wrote it in Russian
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                To blockade, you need to sink it without regard for the flag the ship is flying, and this requires a political decision.

                It is much safer and faster to sink it with aircraft, and the Black Sea Fleet ships with their snail's pace may not be able to catch up with the civilian dry cargo ship.
                1. +1
                  21 July 2026 10: 43
                  Quote: Konnick
                  It is much safer and faster to sink by aircraft,

                  Once again. Sinking without inspection requires a political decision. One that should be made not by the navy commander, but by the president. And there isn't one. The decision is missing, not the president.
        2. +1
          21 July 2026 10: 10
          During WWII, the leadership sent the fleet to Poti to avoid further disgrace, and the current one to Novorossiysk.
          Back then, the fleet withdrew to Georgia when the enemy broke through to Crimea. Now, the fleet has withdrawn simply because drones and boats have been infiltrating ports for years, and there have been no breakthroughs.
        3. +3
          21 July 2026 11: 09
          Quote: Konnick
          During WWII, the leadership sent the fleet to Poti to avoid further disgrace.

          It doesn't matter that the Black Sea Fleet supplied the Sevastopol garrison to the last drop in 1942. Under attack from the German air force, it delivered ammunition and equipment. What's stopping the fleet from supplying Crimea now? Especially since the Ukrainian air force is no match for the Luftwaffe. Oh, and the BEKs and drones that drove a "nuclear power" (in quotes, because there's serious doubt we have even a dozen ready-to-use warheads left) into hiding.
      3. +1
        21 July 2026 08: 36
        Why are we afraid? We can't protect our merchant fleet. How can we protect it in the Black and Baltic Seas? They'll close it, and that's it, arrivederci. And there's nothing we can do.
      4. +3
        21 July 2026 08: 45
        But to just go ahead and send a submarine on a hunt, let it sink, like Greshilov.
        Yes, the crowd will carry such officers in their arms to the Kremlin!
        Nope, too scared! They won't pat us on the head, and before you know it, they'll send us off to catch up with Rokhlin and Prigozhin. We'd rather keep quiet, keep our heads down, and retire.
        1. -1
          21 July 2026 11: 11
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          Rokhlin and Prigozhin.

          Well, maybe not the third one. The Kremlin guys might go and rebuild Vorkuta.
          1. +2
            21 July 2026 11: 21
            The capital of the Russian Federation should be moved to Vorkuta:
            - there is practically no population in the city;
            - nearby there is an abandoned strategic airfield with a good runway;
            - a unique city water supply system;
            - inside the ring - the "Gorka" zone, with the current pace of arrests in government structures - an extremely useful thing! laughing
            It's a joke, but with a grain of salt. hi
            1. 0
              21 July 2026 16: 09
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              The capital of the Russian Federation should be moved to Vorkuta:

              No... the Putorana Plateau is better. After all, it's the geographic center of Russia. smile
      5. -1
        21 July 2026 13: 31
        If the fleet can't hit the BEKs with automatic cannons, then is the country's leadership afraid and to blame?
        1. 0
          21 July 2026 14: 10
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          If the fleet can't hit the BEKs with automatic cannons, then is the country's leadership afraid and to blame?

          Didn't I just write that the fleet isn't included because of the country's leadership? Quote me, please.
          1. -1
            21 July 2026 15: 01
            Consider this a moot point. The country's leadership isn't assigning missions to the navy, fearing it's incapable of fulfilling them.
    2. +9
      21 July 2026 07: 45
      The author forgot about another task: protecting shipping. But I'd better remain silent here.
      1. -1
        21 July 2026 13: 32
        There are also air defense functions to protect ports and rear areas from air raids. Things aren't going well there either.
  11. +6
    21 July 2026 06: 48
    Quote: Konnick
    This is just a waste of budget money on this court Black Sea Fleet.
    I completely agree with you! I remember, even before the collapse of the USSR, there was a regiment of Tu-22M3s stationed in Crimea that could have blanketed the entire Black Sea with mines. And besides minelaying, they could also perform other tasks that surface ships and submarines couldn't possibly accomplish. I just don't know if that regiment still exists or if it's been decimated, like the rest of our country...
    1. +2
      21 July 2026 07: 24
      Quote: Luminman
      I just don't know if this regiment still exists today.

      Are you kidding, boyar? We have only one Tu-22M3 regiment left in the entire country, and it's in the Aerospace Forces.
    2. +4
      21 July 2026 09: 33
      I completely agree with you! I remember, even before the collapse of the USSR, there was a regiment of Tu-22M3s stationed in Crimea that could have blanketed the entire Black Sea with mines. And besides minelaying, they could also perform other tasks that surface ships and submarines couldn't possibly accomplish. I just don't know if that regiment still exists or if it's been decimated, like the rest of our country...


      My grandfather served in Gvardeyskoye (Crimea) on a Tu-16 in the 1960s. Back then, the K-10 anti-ship missiles had a range of 300 km, which rendered all ships larger than minesweepers in the Black Sea Fleet pointless.
  12. 0
    21 July 2026 07: 13
    Why don't submarines block ships from entering Ukraine? Then what are they for?
    1. +1
      21 July 2026 07: 30
      Quote: Alexander Rasmukhambetov
      Why don't submarines block ships from entering Ukraine? Then what are they for?

      A submarine can't blockade. It can sink. And our leadership doesn't allow the sinking of ships flying non-Ukrainian flags. Therefore, a submarine would have to surface in sight of the shore, stop the vessel for inspection... Then it would be sunk on the spot, that's all. A strong-willed decision by the country's leadership is needed to sink everything that goes to or from Ukrainian ports.
      1. +1
        21 July 2026 11: 14
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And our leadership does not allow the sinking of ships under non-Ukrainian flags.

        Well, here too, it all comes down to willpower. Russia could have declared that Odessa and Mykolaiv are closed ports during military operations, and all ships heading there do so at their own risk—mines, randomly scurrying unmanned aerial vehicles, and other accidents. But that's a matter for another time—somewhere in 50 years.
        1. +4
          21 July 2026 11: 15
          Quote: Prometey
          Well, here too, everything comes down to willpower.

          That is how
        2. 0
          21 July 2026 16: 38
          There's no need to declare anything, during WWII the Germans sank everything that moved towards the USSR and didn't give a damn about anything or anyone.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 17: 31
            Quote: Alexander Rasmukhambetov
            There's no need to declare anything, during WWII the Germans sank everything that moved towards the USSR and didn't give a damn about anything or anyone.

            Officially, there is no war now - so it is still necessary to warn.
        3. -1
          21 July 2026 17: 32
          The Russian Federation could have declared that Odessa and Nikolaev are closed ports during military operations and that all ships going there sail at their own risk.
          That's exactly how it was. No ships have sailed to Odessa since the first days of the SVO. They started sailing after the grain deal, which, for some reason, we're still implementing.
      2. 0
        21 July 2026 15: 33
        "The submarine can't block. It can drown." - so drowning is blocking. There's no other way to block.
        1. +1
          21 July 2026 16: 48
          I meant to block and drown what is going to Ukraine.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 22: 52
            You asked the right question, and my answer was directed at the author of the article, Andrey. I said precisely that blocking and drowning are the same thing.
  13. +1
    21 July 2026 07: 24
    Let's look at the tasks that could be set for the Black Sea Fleet

    A blockade (complete cessation of shipping from Ukrainian ports) and a landing. Are these tasks necessary in war? Yes, they are.

    What goals can we achieve by landing troops on the coast controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces?

    The same objectives as Operation Pipeline near Sudzha. An attack behind enemy lines. This daring maneuver played a key role in liberating the city.

    the naval landing temporarily lost its significance

    At the very beginning of the Central Military District, there were no backdoors or UAV predominance. Theoretically, a landing could have been carried out. But what did we see instead of a blockade and landings? A grain deal with the West, where someone was deceived.
    1. +2
      21 July 2026 07: 43
      Quote: Stas157
      Blockade (complete cessation of shipping from Ukrainian ports)

      No way. The country's leadership won't allow it.
      Quote: Stas157
      and landing of troops.

      Not needed for the reasons stated in the article
      Quote: Stas157
      At the very beginning of the SVO, there were no backdoors or UAV predominance. Theoretically, it was possible to land troops.

      That's practically how they landed him - near Stepanovka on the Azov Sea
  14. +5
    21 July 2026 07: 35
    Author, bring back the downvotes for the articles. I'll give at least one and then move on. It's not the navy, but those giving the orders. They don't even have shoulder boards.
    1. +3
      21 July 2026 07: 38
      Quote: Gardamir
      Author, please return the minuses for the articles.

      It is not the author's will
      1. +1
        21 July 2026 07: 51
        Some might have the impression that this is a comfortable place to serve for high-ranking commanders, but this is not accurate.
    2. +1
      21 July 2026 13: 41
      Is that true? It looks more like something else.
      You know, in the late Soviet era, it was common to complain in the army and navy about the low quality of conscripts, claiming society was producing a weak generation incapable of resisting hazing. Even from the student years, they began to rake in supposedly better conscripts. And now we're starting to complain about those giving orders from above?
      Or maybe the problem lies in the fleet itself, its command?
    3. +2
      21 July 2026 16: 14
      Quote: Gardamir
      It's not the navy, but those who give the commands. They don't even have shoulder straps.

      This is what the article says:
      Unfortunately, the Black Sea Fleet is not implementing a naval blockade of the Ukrainian coast. But can this be held against the fleet? Of course not. The problem is that the decision to impose a blockade is made not at the fleet command level, but at the level of the country's top leadership. And our president has not made such a decision.

      Without a political solution, the military is powerless.
  15. -2
    21 July 2026 07: 48
    Moreover, the reasons for the death of the Moskva have still not been announced to the general public: it cannot be ruled out that the flagship was destroyed not as a result of a strike by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but due to an accident similar to the one that happened on the large anti-submarine ship Admiral Zakharov on February 17, 1992.

    .. Two holes below the waterline. What kind of accident? Torpedoes. And they're not disclosing it because that would mean a full-scale war with Great Britain and Turkey. The submarine, secretly submerged, passed through the Turkish Straits. With the Turks' knowledge, of course.
    1. +1
      21 July 2026 07: 56
      Quote: Sergey Novikov_3
      .. 2 holes below the water line, what kind of accident?

      The accident could have caused them. If they existed, of course.
      1. 0
        21 July 2026 08: 50
        Don't disgrace your gray hair, Andrey!
        An accident, in principle, cannot cause a hole comparable to a torpedo hole!
        There are plenty of pictures of ships damaged by naval and aerial torpedoes!
        1. +2
          21 July 2026 09: 42
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          An accident, in principle, cannot cause a hole comparable to a torpedo hole!

          Victor, please don't embarrass us. Who was talking about holes the size of torpedo holes? You, personally, no one else.
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 09: 56
            Sorry, but I didn't understand then:
            Sergey Novikov
            Two holes below the waterline, what kind of accident? Torpedoes.

            Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            An accident could have given them away.

            I understand that the results of the investigation are classified, but the nature of the damage is still known.
            Personally, I believe the Moskva was hit by two Harpoon anti-ship missiles with target designation from a NATO P-3 Orion aircraft. They've honed this type of strike to the point of automatism. The Neptune is unsuitable, as it's not integrated into the external target designation system.
            1. +1
              21 July 2026 10: 08
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              Sorry, but I didn't understand then:

              Sergei writes about two underwater holes. I don't understand where he got them from, but it's quite obvious that if they were torpedo hits, the Moskva would have sunk very quickly—a modern torpedo is a terrifying thing, and the Moskva isn't that big a ship.
              But from an accident (the same destruction of the turbine), underwater holes are quite possible - both from scattered debris and as a result of a large-scale fire and deformation of the hull structures.
              1. +3
                21 July 2026 11: 39
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                But from an accident (the same destruction of the turbine), underwater holes are quite possible - both from scattered debris and as a result of a large-scale fire and deformation of the hull structures.

                Andrei, good afternoon!
                The cruiser Moskva was destroyed by missiles. I've long heard this version "in secret" from retired naval officers.
                Now it has been posted online.
                https://disk.yandex.ru/d/cqJP03YqMD03Fg

                My main complaint about the Black Sea Fleet leadership is its "blatant overzealousness." At the beginning of the Northern Military District, the fleet command forced ship commanders to remove unregulated equipment, including self-created machine gun emplacements against unmanned combat aircraft.
                1. +1
                  21 July 2026 12: 11
                  Quote: rytik32
                  I have long heard this version "in secret" from retired naval officers

                  What haven't I heard from them?:))))))))
                  But in general, of course, this could easily happen.
              2. VlK
                0
                21 July 2026 16: 01
                But from an accident (the same destruction of the turbine), underwater holes are quite possible - both from scattered debris and as a result of a large-scale fire and deformation of the hull structures.
                At that time, I remember there was talk about a possible detonation of ammunition in the cellar next door, caused by a fire as a result of a technical accident.
                Well
                What haven't I heard from them?:))))))))
                But in general, of course, this could easily happen.

                You must admit that the "flagship died in battle" version is generally more acceptable and less offensive for the navy than "sank due to a malfunction," even if it is just a legend started by someone.
        2. 0
          21 July 2026 18: 03
          I already wrote about how the fire burned out the stabilizers inside the ship, causing two holes. The stabilizers are where the black square is on the side, because the fire burned for 12 hours. It was right between the two engine rooms, I mean the fire, and the engine room bulkheads couldn't withstand the fire and burned through, flooding both engine rooms. A ship can withstand flooding in three adjacent compartments EXCEPT THE ENGINE ROOMS!!! That's why it's sinking!

          Now let's draw a straight line upward from the black square. Above that is the crew mess hall, then even higher is the crew mess hall (those are the four portholes under the AK-630 barbette). Even higher is the Voskhod antenna. That's where the explosion occurred, above the crew mess hall. That was the upper explosion. And the lower explosion was right under the crew mess hall, where the crew mess hall is, and even lower is the black square. So, the two explosions pierced two decks and one platform where the crew mess hall is, creating a through-hole from the upper deck to the bottom.

          Now, the main point: under the crew's mess hall, above the stabilizer room, there's the lower branch of two horizontal flues from the aft engine room to the forward engine room. The flues feed the heat recovery circuit boiler. The flues then exit from the aft engine room onto the upper deck and then, horizontally above the crew's mess hall, run along the upper deck into the smoke stack above the aft engine room. Also under the stack, in the corridor next to the crew's mess hall, is the spare fuel pump, located on the port side, where smoke is coming from the portholes. The spare fuel pump was also on fire. That's why there was no power.

          So, the bomb placement location for the two bombs is two horizontal flues, the upper and lower branches of which run above and below the crew mess hall. The flue outlets in the stack are located as low as possible to the deck, allowing the gases in the stack to cool. This makes the flues easy to access, and no one will find the bombs in the flues. In the stabilizer room (black square on the side), on the bulkhead, there's a service tank, and that's where the fire was. There are three more tanks in the forward engine room. The air for the fire also flowed through the flues.
    2. 0
      21 July 2026 07: 59
      Perhaps this is where the Europeans' arrogance stems from. It would have been a surefire pretext for war. But they didn't respond. Apparently, they knew they wouldn't respond.
  16. +1
    21 July 2026 08: 14
    Why criticize the fleet (sailors)? The navy's "leadership" NEEDS to be criticized! Anyone with even the slightest knowledge could see that the situation with "Ukraine" and NATO's move toward us was leading to confrontation and war! And the "military" leadership (and not just the navy) still wanted to fight the "last" war! They lack analytics and forecasting skills! This is what needs to be improved... And the leadership...? The leadership must respond promptly!!!!
  17. 0
    21 July 2026 08: 19
    The World Cup needs to be strengthened, and urgently.
    1. -3
      21 July 2026 08: 34
      It can be strengthened, but it will not be applied as it is now.
    2. 0
      21 July 2026 14: 10
      The Red Banner Caspian Flotilla must be strengthened first and foremost.
  18. fiv
    +1
    21 July 2026 08: 31
    I don't want to defend the naval leadership, but today's armed forces are faced with a new and previously unknown weapon: drones. And no one yet knows how to combat them, even though a ton of anti-drone gadgets have been invented.

    As always, winter arrived unexpectedly, and snow fell across the Russian countryside. Such excuses may be acceptable to housewives these days. But for the state, with its Academy of Sciences, military academies, the Foreign Intelligence Service, and many other similar organizations, this is child's play. What purpose do they even serve then? To fill the budget's expenditures?
  19. +1
    21 July 2026 08: 58
    "The navy cannot establish a naval blockade of the Ukrainian coast because it lacks permission from the country's top leadership."
    The Black Sea Fleet is incapable of establishing a naval blockade. It will be completely destroyed. And thank God, the country's leadership understands this.
  20. +2
    21 July 2026 09: 06
    In defense of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation

    I don't understand something: who should protect whom?
  21. +5
    21 July 2026 09: 07
    the presence of NATO intelligence agents, which our armed forces have no right to destroy,

    Why don't they have them? If they're acting in the interests of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and against the Russian Federation, that means they're an enemy and a legitimate military target.
  22. +4
    21 July 2026 09: 13
    This article is yet another attempt to explain "why" without addressing the true causes, along the lines of "someone, somewhere is to blame." Personally, I believe it's not just the Black Sea Fleet; the problem is much larger, more complex, and systemic. Any army or navy is, first and foremost, about people. What do we see today? A contract-based recruitment system with a limited 12-month conscription period? This system has proven completely ineffective. Russia simply lacks the economic capacity to maintain a contract army of the required size, and a 12-month conscription period is simply insufficient for a conscript to become a soldier or sailor, both physically and professionally. This, incidentally, is what's called a "mobilization reserve." I'd like to refer those who like to downvote this to the experience of the Soviet Army, when soldiers generally received their first badges for passing the military training standards and for graduating in their military specialty after a year of service.
    1. VlK
      +1
      21 July 2026 16: 17
      At the beginning of the Second World War, I remember seeing reports from career military personnel—they were downright surprised that motivated volunteers of that era could acquire the necessary skills from scratch, equivalent to a six-month training course, in about two months. Without all the extras, of course, just combat training. And the Soviet Army was also quite keen on recruiting specialized specialists from civilian life after vocational education or university degrees. So, in my opinion, everything is solvable even with today's conscript service timeframes, with the right approach. Still, without periodic retraining, they will quickly fall behind current modern requirements, including in terms of technical knowledge.
  23. -3
    21 July 2026 09: 28
    The SVO format put an end to the Black Sea Fleet! The fleet was repurposed for other missions! And it's great that they managed to withdraw it in time and save it from complete destruction! In a real full-scale war with the destruction of the enemy's satellite constellation, the fleet can have an impact on the combat zone! The use of Back-up missiles, they say, is a British idea and was tested in the Black Sea Fleet! By the way, if you were to use Back-up missiles against the German, Swedish, or Finnish fleets now, you'd get exactly the same result! Just one question for the Black Sea Fleet command: have any conclusions been drawn from all this, including the tragedy with the RK Moskva, and is anything being done to rectify the situation?
  24. +1
    21 July 2026 09: 59
    Quote: Konnick
    Ships have close-in defense in the form of AK-100 artillery mounts and similar systems. If these rapid-fire mounts were equipped with canister shot, no drones or unmanned aerial vehicles would be a threat... but they are said to be quickly inoperable. If they fired canister shot at a range of 500 meters at a rate of 60 rounds per minute, it would be possible to destroy incoming and approaching targets even by ear, even without a fire control system, creating a continuous cloud of canister shot along the front and at an altitude of 200-400 meters.

    The key word in your comment is "if"
  25. +5
    21 July 2026 09: 59
    The Black Sea is a closed body of water with an area of ​​1/800th the size of the World Ocean. The Montreux Convention transforms the Black Sea Fleet into a large lake in the event of war.
    The Baltic Sea is also effectively a closed body of water, covering 1/900th of the World Ocean's surface. The Danish Straits are controlled by Denmark, Sweden, and Germany. In the event of a military operation to secure the Suwalki Gap, the fleet based in Kronstadt would be unable to leave the eastern Gulf of Finland.

    The era of the Black Sea and Baltic fleets is gone forever – in closed waters, small flotillas with auxiliary ships are needed: minesweepers, patrol boats, etc., while combat ships are needed only in the Northern and Pacific fleets, where they can enter the world's oceans.
    1. 0
      21 July 2026 10: 12
      Quote: Ivan Seversky
      In closed waters, small flotillas with auxiliary ships are needed: minesweepers, patrol boats, etc.,

      When Turkish submarines greet you off our shores, how will we respond? Will we angrily denounce the machinations of the Turkish military at a naval rally?
      Quote: Ivan Seversky
      and only warships are needed

      at least to maintain its presence in the Mediterranean Sea
      1. +1
        21 July 2026 10: 43
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Quote: Ivan Seversky
        In closed waters, small flotillas with auxiliary ships are needed: minesweepers, patrol boats, etc.,

        When Turkish submarines greet you off our shores, how will we respond? Will we angrily denounce the machinations of the Turkish military at a naval rally?

        We'll send the cruiser Moskva to intercept.
      2. +2
        21 July 2026 11: 16
        When Turkish submarines greet you off our shores, how will we respond? Will we angrily denounce the machinations of the Turkish military at a naval rally?

        In the event of war, Turkey would close the Bosphorus and Dardanelles, and that would be it. Merchant ships would have nowhere to go, even without submarines. Even if the Black Sea Fleet were ten times stronger, it would still be impossible to pass through the straits—the British discovered this in 1915.

        at least to maintain its presence in the Mediterranean Sea

        In the event of any conflict, Türkiye blocks the passage of military vessels in accordance with the Montreux Convention and the Mediterranean Sea becomes completely inaccessible.
        1. VlK
          -1
          21 July 2026 16: 24
          In the event of war, the Montreux Convention is not a geographical given, but a mere legal document, the implementation or disregard of which will depend solely on the goodwill of the parties involved. And Turkey will never go against a collective decision by NATO, for example, of which it is also a member.
    2. +6
      21 July 2026 10: 49
      Little correction:
      In the event of war, the Northern Fleet would be unable to reach either the Atlantic or the Pacific Ocean. The entire Northern Sea Route lies in shallow continental shelf waters and could be mined by the enemy.
      Not to mention the vulnerability of the bases on the Kola Peninsula.
      So, it was the Pacific Fleet that needed to be developed, as well as the Pacific coast itself and the Far East. But we've traditionally prioritized the North, where, relatively speaking, there are no competitors.
      It's like when a drunk looks for his wallet, not where he dropped it, but where the flashlight shines.
      I'll get a ton of downvotes for this from the Northern Fleet supporters, to whom I dedicated a decent chunk of my life, but I have to face the truth.
      1. +1
        21 July 2026 11: 26
        Quote: Victor Leningradets
        So it was precisely the Pacific Fleet that needed to be developed, as well as the Pacific coast itself and the Far East.

        Are you talking about the USSR or the Russian Federation?
        Quote: Victor Leningradets
        I'll get a ton of downvotes for this from the Northern Fleet supporters, to whom I dedicated a decent chunk of my life, but I have to face the truth.

        As for Russia, objectively, we have a powerful shipbuilding and ship repair cluster in the North, but not in the Far East. It's easier to wave a flag in the Mediterranean from the North. It's also easier to protect strategic planners there.
        1. +1
          21 July 2026 12: 25
          Well, everything is just as I wrote, not where I lost it, but where the light shines.
          The Far East needs to be developed simply because it offers the potential to create a self-sustaining zone of prosperity with a well-developed infrastructure. The Pacific coast of the US and Canada is a good example.
          Regarding shipbuilding, you're wrong. Zvezda's capacity is incomparable to other plants, and there's a project for another one, equally powerful. Another issue is that the profiteers don't understand that regional development is a complex task, and achieving breakeven isn't the most important thing.
          Okay, so our leaders themselves can't do anything, so lease these factories to the DPRK and provide them with orders, but they don't have the brains for that either.
          I've already written: in the event of a conflict, our Northern Fleet will not enter either the Atlantic or the Pacific. Our bases are all under attack, our communications are in a minefield. And you consider this gigantic altar some kind of outpost?!
          It's too late to change anything now, but if the conflict in Europe resolves, we need to implement a turn to the East, including to our Far East, not just in words but in deeds.
          1. +1
            21 July 2026 13: 01
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            It is necessary to develop the Far East only because there is an opportunity to create a self-sustaining zone of prosperity with a developed infrastructure.

            We can’t do this in the central part of Russia, what are you talking about?
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            Regarding shipbuilding, you're wrong. Zvezda's capacity is incomparable with other plants.

            The star is not located next to Sevmash and Zvezdochka
            1. +2
              21 July 2026 13: 41
              There's no need to rub this in. I'm working on the topic, after all!
              In terms of tonnage, neither Zvezdochka nor Sevmash can match Zvezda. It's a different story with special-purpose construction. Moreover, Zvezdochka doesn't build, but rather repairs and modernizes.
              But if we (and who is this "we"?) are so clumsy that we can't do anything in central Russia, then more resourceful masters will be found for this land. And the Russians will be driven inside the Golden Ring to entertain the White lords.
              1. +1
                21 July 2026 14: 15
                Quote: Victor Leningradets
                In terms of tonnage, neither Zvezdochka nor Sevmash can catch up with Zvezda.

                Viktor, if you're working on this topic, you know that personnel is everything. Personnel, not the size of slipways and docks. Sevmash has these personnel, but Zvezda doesn't. Sevmash is also much closer to central Russia, so shipping all the components there is significantly cheaper and faster than to the Far East. So, building supertankers, which are essentially tankers of mind-boggling dimensions, is fine at Zvezda, but manufacturing SSBNs there is a highly unlikely task. Meanwhile, Sevmash produces them quite effectively.
                1. +1
                  21 July 2026 14: 23
                  And this is the correct answer.
                  This is precisely why a number of people are advocating for the construction of a powerful civilian shipyard not on Sakhalin or Sovetskaya Gavan, but in the Kola Bay.
                  But what we need is the Far East.
                  My son-in-law was ready to move to the Far East for good housing and a real salary (not what VTB pays).
                  But it's advantageous for the raw materials industry to have people, other than the shift workers at the fields, receiving benefits and working hard. Lower costs and higher sales.
        2. +2
          21 July 2026 18: 16
          Sorry, I'll put in my two cents about the "powerful shipbuilding and ship repair cluster in the north." If you meant Severodvinsk, then yes, I agree. If you meant the Murmansk region, then no. We have nothing. Plant 82 is moribund, Plant 35 is dying (personnel, logistics, equipment, floating docks), and I won't even mention anything west of the Kola Bay. In thirty years, Vova could have built a gem here, where we could not only do ship repair but also build waterway patrol ships, without having to ship ready-made ones along river fairways. And we had a base by the early 2000s, and the personnel. Now... It's all sad. I don't even believe in the best anymore. I worked in ship repair, saw it from the inside, and I still see it to this day. Good luck.
          1. +2
            21 July 2026 18: 21
            Quote: Severok
            If you meant Severodvinsk, then yes, I agree.

            And so he had it :)
      2. +1
        21 July 2026 17: 43
        In the event of war, the Northern Fleet would be unable to reach either the Atlantic or the Pacific Ocean. The entire Northern Sea Route lies in shallow continental shelf waters and could be mined by the enemy.
        Not to mention the vulnerability of the bases on the Kola Peninsula.
        So, it was the Pacific Fleet that needed to be developed, as well as the Pacific coast itself and the Far East. But we've traditionally prioritized the North, where, relatively speaking, there are no competitors.

        The reallocation of resources toward the development of the Pacific Fleet seems logical. The only question is where to deploy the new ships (or those transferred from other fleets)? Vladivostok is 50 km from the Chinese border, Fokino is 100 km—too close to a dangerous neighbor. Moreover, the fleet still needs to exit the Sea of ​​Japan into the World Ocean.
        Vilyuchinsk seems to be a much more protected place, but Kamchatka is very far from populated areas.
      3. +1
        25 July 2026 17: 18
        The Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet had parity in large surface ships. I could have been assigned to the crew of the Andropov (Pyotr Velikiy), it was being built for the Pacific Fleet, but the 10th Special Operations Squadron wouldn't be able to leave the closed Sea of ​​Japan either. The 10th Special Operations Squadron's area of ​​responsibility extends to Port Suez. I served as a tablet operator and could see the border on the map. And when we arrived at Kamchatka, we were told we didn't need to hand in our tropical uniforms; they weren't needed here. The Kamchatka Flotilla doesn't sail far. Then there was talk that they wanted to expand my Kamchatka 173rd Brigade into a division. The Northern Fleet sailors from the Tbilisi (Kuznetsov) had undergone training with us, and our people laughed at them as soon as they even mentioned that the Northern Fleet was better.
  26. +1
    21 July 2026 10: 40
    All this is true, but then the question arises: why have such meager fleets at all? Calibers can be fired from mobile carriers; it's cheaper. A fleet would either have to be large, but then it would suck up money we already lack, or it wouldn't be needed at all on an oceanic scale. Now imagine the smoky Admiral Kuznetsov attacked at sea while en route from Syria or Zimbabwe, where we want to build bases, by Ukrainian drones or back-up aircraft.
    1. +3
      21 July 2026 10: 47
      Quote: Panin (Michman)
      All this is true, but then the question arises, what are such scanty fleets for?

      I wrote a short series about the First Archipelago Expedition. The fleet was weak, unprepared for long-distance missions, and France would gobble it up along the way without a peep. But the Russian Empire was led by a clever woman, Catherine the Great; she appointed the right people to command and negotiated with England. The result was brilliant victories (Chesma) and considerable influence on the outcome of the war.
      The issue isn't that the navy is underpowered, the issue is that it needs to be used decisively. That's where we have problems, but even the strategic nuclear forces won't save us from indecision.
  27. BAI
    +5
    21 July 2026 11: 05
    Today, one often hears criticism of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy.

    The Baltic Fleet hasn't "fought" yet.
    This is where a lot of unpleasant surprises and discoveries await us.
  28. +1
    21 July 2026 11: 14
    Quote: 2 level advisor
    Quote: Prometey
    I also don't understand, what's the problem with shooting down NATO fighters over the Black Sea?

    The reason is probably because they need to have at least ironclad proof that they're working for the enemy. Otherwise, destroying enemy military property is a surefire way to an even more difficult war, and what's useful for victory in that? That means the consequences of such actions will complicate the situation, not ease it. Otherwise, I think they would have been shot down long ago.

    For some reason, Iran and the Houthis don't need your "cast-iron" evidence - they continue to shoot down American UAVs just as they did before. lol
  29. +2
    21 July 2026 11: 27
    "A gun on the shore is worth a ship at sea." Admiral Nelson.
    The fleet cannot operate successfully while within the range of ground-based firepower.
  30. 0
    21 July 2026 11: 28
    Quote: Panin (Michman)
    Now let's imagine that the smoking Admiral Kuznetsov

    Why did "Admiral Kuznetsov smoke"? Since you're linking to it, please elaborate on the topic in full.
    1. -1
      21 July 2026 14: 23
      Quote: Grossvater
      Quote: Panin (Michman)
      Now let's imagine that the smoking Admiral Kuznetsov

      Why did "Admiral Kuznetsov smoke"? Since you're linking to it, please elaborate on the topic in full.

      The question isn't why it was smoking. Clearly, it's old and there's no time or money for repairs. But if you want an aircraft carrier for each fleet, you have to understand the cost. A while ago, they were making fun of England for barely assembling a squadron for the Falklands. Then there was an article about Royal Navy reviews, comparing their scale. NATO countries don't even need to maintain huge fleets and armies, unlike us. This means we have to decide what comes first—a land army or a navy, which is what Russia did after the war ended. World War II was won on land, except for the Pacific theater, but that has its own specifics.
      After WWII, the USSR also built a fleet of enormous size, which ultimately had no use and was scrapped.
      1. 0
        21 July 2026 14: 56
        The ground army the USSR had built by 1941 was all buried in mass graves by the end of the year. And then, another army, rising from the ashes, liberated its territory and part of Europe at the cost of incredible losses.
        In today's reality, ground warfare is a death conveyor with no prospect of victory. Without radical solutions, we cannot defeat Ukraine, supported by the West, much less the entire NATO bloc in Europe.
        1. 0
          21 July 2026 20: 04
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          The land army that the USSR had built up by 1941 was all buried in mass graves by the end of the year.

          The question is, why didn't the entire German army fall? Perhaps they were built incorrectly? Or were the tactics and strategy different? The Germans managed to hold their ground with smaller forces and suffered fewer losses.
          Again. How would a large navy have helped reduce these losses and hasten victory? So, if the Soviet Union had built four battleships, what then?
          1. -1
            21 July 2026 21: 04
            The entire German Army fell within a year. Its replacement fell in February 1945, having been hit by shrapnel in March. So the score is on the scoreboard.
            A large fleet needed to be built, firstly, wisely, and secondly, on time. The best course of action was to continue the process after the devastation had been overcome. But alas, Frunze was removed, and then came the political games.
            1. -1
              22 July 2026 07: 25
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              The entire German Army fell within a year. Its replacement fell in February 1945, having been hit by shrapnel in March. So the score is on the scoreboard.
              A large fleet needed to be built, firstly, wisely, and secondly, on time. The best course of action was to continue the process after the devastation had been overcome. But alas, Frunze was removed, and then came the political games.

              I dare to ask again, could the USSR of the 20s-30s have built battleships and how would this have helped during WWII?
              The German army didn't give up. They successfully retreated and evacuated Crimea. The USSR simply had more manpower, territory, and mineral resources. And when the second front opened, would the USSR have been able to fight on two fronts?
      2. 0
        22 July 2026 11: 19
        Quote: Panin (Michman)
        But if you want an aircraft carrier for each fleet, you need to understand how much money that means.

        If someone wants "an aircraft carrier for each fleet," they should understand that 25-33% of the time, there won't be a single carrier in that fleet. There was an article here about the service life of American aircraft carriers: for these floating airfields to last and function properly, they must spend at least a quarter of their service life (new ones), and even a third (old ones), in repairs. wink
  31. +2
    21 July 2026 11: 35
    I read the article and the comments, and I was left with mixed feelings – the author and the forum members seem to be right to some extent, and their opponents also seem to have sound arguments and suggestions, all true. However, the main point is missing – no conclusion as to why this is happening. Let's return to the USSR, to the early development of the Red Army. The then head of state prioritized the development of the branches and arms of the Red Army. He was interested in everything related to the country's defense capability. He delved deeply into these issues, right down to specific weapons models, and quite successfully, which, incidentally, amazed designers and engineers. In general, this topic, the role of the head of state in the development and strengthening of any country's defense capability, is worthy of a separate article, in my opinion. Now, my short conclusion is this: when the head of state isn't simply interested in, but takes a direct and committed part in, the development of the Armed Forces, when he listens not to defense "managers" but to professionals, when he understands literally every weapon model, concept, or military doctrine—then the result is different. The one the whole world witnessed in May 1945. This, as military expert M. Khodaryonok likes to say, is my personal opinion. bully
    1. +2
      21 July 2026 12: 13
      Quote: Radikal
      However, the main thing is missing - there is no conclusion as to why everything is happening this way?

      I wrote you a private message :)
    2. +1
      21 July 2026 18: 03
      Dear sir, my admiration for your "...personal judgment." Hats off to you.
    3. 0
      22 July 2026 11: 25
      Quote: Radikal
      I read the article and the comments, and I was left with mixed feelings: the author and the forum members seem to be right to some extent, and their opponents also seem to have sound reasoning and suggestions, all of which are true. However, the main point is missing—there's no conclusion as to why this is happening.

      Walking is slimy
      On pebbles other
      So, that is close,
      We better keep silent.
      © A.K. Tolstoy. History of the Russian State from Gostomysl to Timashev.
      Let's return to the USSR, to the beginning of the Red Army's development. The then head of state prioritized the development of the Red Army's branches and arms. He was interested in everything related to the country's defense capability, delving deeply into these issues, right down to specific weaponry, and quite successfully, which, incidentally, amazed the designers and engineers.

      Yeah... "We'll collect it penny by penny, but we'll build it." And as a result, the ships were already obsolete at the very start of construction. Or "we need to take industry's opinion into account." And as a result, the fleet ended up with nearly a hundred ships fit only for peacetime training and parade duty. And when the fleet was given a combat mission, not a single one of these ships was sent to carry it out.
      1. VlK
        +1
        22 July 2026 11: 54
        And when the fleet was given a combat mission, not one of these ships was sent to carry it out.
        in the Cuban Missile Crisis?
        1. 0
          22 July 2026 14: 35
          Quote: VlK
          in the Cuban Missile Crisis?

          Yeah... on paper, it's a powerful fleet. But when it came down to it, they could only send four diesel-electric submarines. And not a single surface ship. sad
          1. VlK
            0
            22 July 2026 14: 52
            Why, really, didn't they send cruisers and destroyers - they were out of range?

            In general, of course, the situation in our post-revolutionary history regarding the military-industrial complex's understanding of the need for a strong navy has been depressing. Stalin apparently fully grasped its importance during the Spanish Civil War, when difficulties with seaborne supplies arose. Khrushchev and his successor did so during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Now, we're apparently on our third attempt at tackling the same problem. And each time, it's as if we've started from scratch, without any continuity in this matter...
  32. 0
    21 July 2026 11: 46
    This will continue until someone comes up with the idea to make Odessa a free city...
    Let these bastards profit better from their trade than from our fratricide.
  33. +2
    21 July 2026 11: 54
    The fleet isn't solving its problems, although this is partly due to the lack of coherent plans from Moscow. Especially in the context of disrupting shipping. But, of course, "thanks" to the admirals who turned the Black Sea Fleet into a suitcase without a handle. Since 1992, there have been as many as 14 of them. Commanders-in-Chief. Such a mess. But the state created good conditions. A base was built in Novorossiysk, Sevastopol was completely recaptured, new ships of Projects 06363, 11356, 22160, 22800, 21631, 12700, and others arrived – more than 25 pennants in the last 10 years. But, as the saying goes, the fish rots from the head. A very sad and tragic outcome...
  34. 0
    21 July 2026 12: 35
    Today, Russian armed forces have intensified attacks on Ukrainian port infrastructure. The logic here is clear: we are trying to disrupt Ukraine's maritime communications not by destroying ships engaged in maritime transport, but by disrupting Ukraine's ability to receive and dispatch these ships.
    Well, it seems like the picture is changing...have they taken up the courts?
  35. +2
    21 July 2026 12: 43
    Quote: Schneeberg
    Quote: V.
    Maybe we need to look for another Ushakov or Kuznetsov who can lead the fleet to new victories.
    We need to look for the next Stalin, and the Ushakovs, Kuznetsovs and Zhukovs will appear themselves

    People of Stalin's stature are born in Russia once every 100 years, unfortunately...
  36. +2
    21 July 2026 12: 54
    Some questions on the posed and unsolved problems:
    Task No. 1. Destruction of enemy naval forces

    Everything here is correct. The Ukr-Banderlog Navy doesn't exist, so there's nothing to destroy.
    Task No. 2. Formation of the A2/AD zone

    Iran and the guys in slippers have long since ignored all sorts of prohibitions, agreements, etc., and are shooting down US reconnaissance aircraft in droves. For some reason, WE can't do that. We're not like that!
    Task No. 3. Landing of troops

    The time has not yet come. But it is obvious that we will need to land troops to liberate Russian soil. The only question is how, with what forces, and with what support this landing will be carried out behind the bastards' lines.
    Task No. 4. Striking enemy ground forces and infrastructure facilities

    Things are more or less in order with the strikes against the bastards in their distant rear. The fleet carries out these strikes regularly, and the Ukrobanderlogs are constantly getting their teeth kicked.
    Task No. 5. Interruption of enemy shipping

    Here, the author either forgot himself or got distracted by something and wrote something completely incoherent. Perhaps he doesn't know that the Black Sea Fleet is supposed to have a stockpile of naval mines of various designs, capable of completely blocking any shipping near the ports of country 404. There are also submarines, rumored to number as many as eight, which could also be used to block shipping from country 404. Read the history of our fleet's actions during WWII to block Nazi shipping.
    The author also overlooked the Black Sea Fleet's mission of protecting our shipping in our economic zone. In this regard, I recall the recent defeat of numerous of our ships sailing unprotected and unescorted in the Sea of ​​Azov. Isn't that the Black Sea Fleet's mission?
    Therefore, there's no need to defend the Black Sea Fleet. Its actions in the war against country 404 are nothing compared to those of our army, which, albeit slowly, is grinding down the bastards on the front, while the Black Sea Fleet can't even defend itself from an attack by the bastards.
    1. +1
      21 July 2026 13: 04
      Quote: The Truth
      which could completely block any shipping in the area of ​​the ports of country 404, and there are also submarines, of which, according to rumors, there are as many as 8 pieces, and which can also be used to block the shipping of country 404.

      Please read the article again. It clearly states that the navy cannot interrupt shipping not because it can't, but because it is prohibited from doing so. Laying mines and launching torpedoes from submarines is the destruction of foreign-flagged vessels, and the country's leadership is unwilling to do so.
      1. 0
        21 July 2026 16: 32
        Please read the article again. It clearly states that the navy cannot interrupt shipping.

        What are you saying!? And the navy can't protect our dry cargo ships in the Azov-Black Sea basin either, or they won't even give the order to do so!?
        1. 0
          21 July 2026 16: 55
          Quote: The Truth
          And the fleet also can’t protect our dry cargo ships in the Azov-Black Sea basin, or they don’t give the order to protect them!?

          The answer to this question was given in the article - read about the problems of creating the A2/AD zone
          1. -2
            21 July 2026 18: 36
            Read about the challenges of creating an A2/AD zone.

            Oh, yeah, problems, problems, problems, and no protection. And that's how it is...
            Just like in a family: you, your wife, your children, and all your relatives have problems, and then these problems need to be shifted and shifted, shifted, shifted onto everyone else, so that everyone else has problems too... It's interesting how you live, though...
            1. +2
              22 July 2026 08: 00
              Quote: The Truth
              Oh yeah, problems, problems, problems and no protection.

              That is, essentially nothing to say.
              1. 0
                22 July 2026 12: 56
                That is, essentially nothing to say.

                There you have it, the restless one. He's just itching to be rubbed in the face with history. Now, to the point.
                During the Northern War, Tsar Peter did not look for trouble, but used galleys to beat and destroy the Swedish fleet.
                During the Russo-Turkish wars, our admirals Ushakov, Istomin, Kornilov, Nakhimov, etc. did not look for problems, but smashed and destroyed the Turkish fleet, which was many times superior.
                During the first siege of Sevastopol, our admirals did not look for trouble, but built the defense of Sevastopol and protected Sevastopol from the Turks and Europe.
                More recent times.
                During WWII, our Northern Fleet was significantly weaker than the German fleet, but it did not seek out trouble, but rather escorted convoys to our shores and defended the Arctic.
                During WWII, the Gulf of Finland was completely blocked by nets, but our submariners didn't look for trouble, but tried to break through to operational space. And some succeeded, although the loss of submarines was enormous.
                During WWII, our Black Sea Fleet sailors didn't look for trouble, but supplied the fighting Sevastopol with weapons, food, and so on.
                During WWII, our sailors of the Volga Flotilla did not look for problems, but supplied the fighting city of Stalingrad with everything it needed.
                So, dear Andrey from Chelyabinsk (Andrey), don’t give us any bullshit here about problems and finding these problems.
                A navy isn't created to find problems, but to defend the Fatherland and its borders. And if it only defends itself, and defends it well, then there's no point in looking for problems and reasons why this, that, or the other isn't being done. We need to stop looking for reasons, and instead solve the tasks assigned to the navy from the start.
                1. 0
                  22 July 2026 13: 51
                  So, you have nothing to say on the substance of the matter. And there's really no point in engaging in a hysterical debate with me, since I know the history of the Navy a little better than you do.
                  And it’s not that you are being endearingly inconsistent in stating
                  Quote: The Truth
                  During the first siege of Sevastopol, our admirals did not look for trouble, but built the defense of Sevastopol and protected Sevastopol from the Turks and Europe.

                  Because during the first siege of Sevastopol, our forces actually found problems out of nowhere and destroyed their own fleet, not daring to engage the Anglo-French forces, which, generally speaking, was entirely possible (yes, I know about steam engines, but apparently I also know things about them you don't). And now you're holding up this very destruction of the fleet, done with your own hands, as an example to the Black Sea Fleet!
                  Quote: The Truth
                  During WWII, our Northern Fleet was significantly weaker than the German fleet, but it did not seek out trouble, but rather escorted convoys to our shores and defended the Arctic.

                  So, tell us in all the chilling details about how our Northern Fleet defended convoy PQ-17. Which, in case you didn't know, was destroyed in our Northern Fleet's area of ​​responsibility.
                  Quote: The Truth
                  During WWII, the Gulf of Finland was completely blocked by nets, but our submariners did not look for problems

                  And they suffered heavy losses, inflicting some damage on the Germans. This reminds me of something... but what? Wasn't it the SVO? :))))
                  Quote: The Truth
                  During WWII, our Black Sea Fleet sailors didn't look for trouble, but supplied the fighting Sevastopol with weapons, food, and so on.

                  At the same time, they provided virtually no fire support to those fighting and, subsequently, failed in the task of destroying at sea the fascist troops evacuated from Crimea, who managed to flee en masse in the face of the full might of the Black Sea Fleet.
                  Quote: The Truth
                  So, dear Andrey from Chelyabinsk (Andrey), don’t give us any bullshit here about problems and finding these problems.

                  So, dear Pravdodel, don't throw around slogans. Get down from the podium and tell us what exactly, in your opinion, the Black Sea Fleet should have done in the North Caucasus Military District, but didn't. Be specific, as I described its tasks in the article, and without the fluff that makes up your entire comment, to which I'm now responding.
                  1. VlK
                    0
                    22 July 2026 14: 17
                    Because during the first siege of Sevastopol, ours actually found problems out of nowhere and destroyed their own fleet, not daring to give battle to the Anglo-French forces, which, generally speaking, was quite possible (yes, I know about steam engines, but apparently I also know something about them that you don’t know).

                    Andrey, don't you share the opinion that even if the Black Sea Fleet had inflicted losses equal to its own on the interventionist fleet, which was superior in numbers and quality, it still wouldn't have prevented the landing operation, but would have deprived the defenders of Sevastopol of the material base and manpower for further land defense of the fortress, which, moreover, it didn't even exist at the beginning of the Crimean War, by its destruction in a naval battle?
                    1. +1
                      22 July 2026 15: 52
                      Quote: VlK
                      Andrey, you don’t share my opinion,

                      The issue requires further study, but no, I don’t agree.
                  2. -1
                    24 July 2026 13: 22
                    Regarding PQ-17, read Pikul's "Requiem..." Then you won't have to invent anything. The convoy was destroyed because the British lost their nerve about Tirpitz and disbanded their escorts in their area of ​​responsibility. Save yourself if you can. Our fleet encountered the remnants of the already disbanded and destroyed convoy, and the remnants reached the ports. Study history—it's an exact science!
                    1. +2
                      24 July 2026 14: 18
                      Quote: Glagol1
                      Regarding the PQ-17, read Pikul's "Requiem..."

                      If you want to know what happened to PQ-17, first of all forget Pikul.
                      Quote: Glagol1
                      The convoy was destroyed because the British had lost their cool about Tirpitz and disbanded their security detail in their area of ​​responsibility.

                      First, study your areas of responsibility.
                      In September 1941, shortly after the outbreak of war, the Soviet command and the British Admiralty concluded an agreement. According to it, the dividing line between the zones of operations of Soviet and British forces ran east of Vannö Island—along the meridian of 20 degrees east longitude. (History of the Second World War 1939-1945, Volume 4, Chapter 11, Moscow: Voenizdat, 1975)
                      And at the 20th meridian is that very same Bear Island, which the convoy passed on the afternoon of July 3, more than a day before disbanding...
                      And cruiser escorts ordered to retreat westward, according to the general rule, and not just for PQ-17, were supposed to escort the convoy only to the edge of that operational zone; at most, in the event of a threat to the convoy from surface forces, to the 25th meridian. In other words, even without receiving the order to retreat, they would have done so.
                      Quote: Glagol1
                      Study history - it's an exact science!

                      Do you already understand how funny it is to hear this from you? :))))
                2. +1
                  22 July 2026 13: 51
                  So, you have nothing to say on the substance of the matter. And there's really no point in engaging in a hysterical debate with me, since I know the history of the Navy a little better than you do.
                  You are being endearingly inconsistent in stating
                  Quote: The Truth
                  During the first siege of Sevastopol, our admirals did not look for trouble, but built the defense of Sevastopol and protected Sevastopol from the Turks and Europe.

                  Because during the first siege of Sevastopol, our forces actually found problems out of nowhere and destroyed their own fleet, not daring to engage the Anglo-French forces, which, generally speaking, was entirely possible (yes, I know about steam engines, but apparently I also know things about them you don't). And now you're holding up this very destruction of the fleet, done with your own hands, as an example to the Black Sea Fleet!
                  Quote: The Truth
                  During WWII, our Northern Fleet was significantly weaker than the German fleet, but it did not seek out trouble, but rather escorted convoys to our shores and defended the Arctic.

                  So, tell us in all the chilling details about how our Northern Fleet defended convoy PQ-17. Which, in case you didn't know, was destroyed in our Northern Fleet's area of ​​responsibility.
                  Quote: The Truth
                  During WWII, the Gulf of Finland was completely blocked by nets, but our submariners did not look for problems

                  And they suffered heavy losses, inflicting some damage on the Germans. This reminds me of something... but what? Wasn't it the SVO? :))))
                  Quote: The Truth
                  During WWII, our Black Sea Fleet sailors didn't look for trouble, but supplied the fighting Sevastopol with weapons, food, and so on.

                  At the same time, they provided virtually no fire support to those fighting and, subsequently, failed in the task of destroying at sea the fascist troops evacuated from Crimea, who managed to flee en masse in the face of the full might of the Black Sea Fleet.
                  Quote: The Truth
                  So, dear Andrey from Chelyabinsk (Andrey), don’t give us any bullshit here about problems and finding these problems.

                  So, dear Pravdodel, don't throw around slogans. Get down from the podium and tell us what exactly, in your opinion, the Black Sea Fleet should have done in the North Caucasus Military District, but didn't. Be specific, as I described its tasks in the article, and without the fluff that makes up your entire comment, to which I'm now responding.
                  1. -2
                    22 July 2026 14: 13
                    You have nothing to say on the merits of the matter.

                    I've already answered you several times, and you still keep going back to your old ways. Read on, read on, and enjoy the answer.
                    Stubbornness bordering on stupidity does not indicate great intelligence.
                    Therefore, I am ending any discussion with you in view of the previous statement.
                    You can not answer.
                    1. +1
                      22 July 2026 15: 50
                      Quote: The Truth
                      I have already answered you several times,

                      That is to say, I won’t get anything from you except slogans.
                      Not surprised at all.
        2. -1
          21 July 2026 18: 06
          There are some things the fleet isn't allowed to do. It can't do anything else. But if they gave the order, it could defend itself! angry
          But there is no order request
          1. 0
            21 July 2026 18: 40
            ...they're not allowing the fleet to do anything...if they were given the order, they could defend themselves! But there's no order.

            You're right about that. Not just right, but right on target.
            Andrey from Chelyabinsk (Andrey) needs to read your comment carefully, too, otherwise he's always looking for problems. And the problems, it turns out, are right there...
            1. 0
              22 July 2026 08: 01
              Quote: The Truth
              Andrey from Chelyabinsk needs to read your comment carefully too.

              He read it and even responded...
  37. +2
    21 July 2026 13: 01
    ...it cannot be ruled out that the flagship was not destroyed by a Ukrainian air strike, but by an accident similar to the one that occurred on the large anti-submarine ship Admiral Zakharov on February 17, 1992. Then, a gas turbine malfunctioned and was destroyed, and debris from it punctured a fuel tank, causing a massive fire in the hull's interior, in close proximity to the ammunition magazines. This is very similar to the damage suffered by the missile cruiser Moskva, but the large anti-submarine ship Admiral Zakharov was nevertheless saved.

    I don't recall the US Navy losing a guided missile destroyer or a guided missile cruiser "due to technical reasons" from catastrophic fires at sea.

    The Russian Navy presumably has the missile cruiser Moskva, the nearly lost large anti-submarine ship Admiral Zakharov, and the large anti-submarine ship Otvazhny, lost at sea. This is despite the fact that the Russian Navy built far fewer large naval ships of this displacement (first-class) than the American missile cruisers and guided missile destroyers.

    A good illustration of the fact that the domestic school of designing combat surface ships for the nuclear missile era turned out to be significantly weaker than the American one.
    1. +1
      21 July 2026 13: 39
      A ship is a complex thing. And the Americans have their own quirks when it comes to modern ship designs. And recently, the personal trainer has been doing something weird with gender neutrality.
      But overall, our schools are disproportionately inferior. It's hard to find such sloppiness. But Americans strive for it too. They're even willing to litter the toilets.
    2. +3
      21 July 2026 14: 19
      Quote: AlexanderA
      I don't recall the US Navy losing a guided missile destroyer or a guided missile cruiser "due to technical reasons" from catastrophic fires at sea.

      Yes, they don't waste time on trifles. They immediately lose the 40-ton USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6), not even at sea, but at the pier.
      1. +2
        21 July 2026 16: 07
        At the pier, during repair work - this is no longer quality design.

        The Admiral Kuznetsov heavy aircraft carrier. On the night of October 29-30, 2018, due to a sudden power outage from the shore, one of the turrets of the PD-50 floating dock at the 82nd Ship Repair Yard in Roslyakovo began an uncontrolled submersion, causing a significant list. The PD-50 began to sink. Because Rosneft, which had previously purchased the 82nd Ship Repair Yard from the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), had reduced the dock's engine crew and was not purchasing fuel for the diesel generators, the PD-50 was unable to switch to its own power supply to pump water out of its tanks and began to sink along with the aircraft carrier. The PD-50 sank. The aircraft carrier, fortunately, did not sink along with the dock.

        On December 12, 2019, a fire broke out on the heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, moored at the 35th Ship Repair Plant (a branch of the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center) in the Leninsky District of Murmansk, covering an area of ​​600 square meters. Two people died, and 12 others were injured, including seven hospitalized. It took almost a day to extinguish the fire: from 11 a.m. on December 12 to 8 a.m. on December 13. The cause was a spark from welding and fuel oil in the hold. After assessing the damage, repairs were extended until 2024, and the director of the shipyard was arrested.

        The Admiral Kuznetsov heavy cruiser has still not been commissioned. In 2025, media outlets spread rumors that the Kuznetsov might be decommissioned.

        Let's recall how many aircraft carriers the US Navy has had in recent years, and how many we have. Let's estimate how often, per aircraft carrier, we experience major repair emergencies that threaten the ship's destruction or decommissioning.
        1. +4
          21 July 2026 16: 20
          Quote: AlexanderA
          At the pier, during repair work - this is no longer quality design.

          Yeah. What I particularly like about you as an engineer is that you can't even distinguish between a design defect and a violation of operating rules. So, if our ship is on fire, that's a design flaw, but the fact that the overhaul deadlines have long since expired and the ship hasn't received any repairs (like Zakharov) or that it was not overhauled but by a VTG and from the "Sharas-Montazh" company (Moscow)—that's something you don't even consider.
          But if an American ship completely burned up near the hull—oh, come on, how could you? It has nothing to do with design flaws. That's (with a gasp) AMERICAN quality! laughing
          Here we play, here we don’t play, and here we wrap fish.
          Thank you, you made me laugh once again.
          1. +5
            21 July 2026 18: 58
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Yeah. What I particularly like about you as an engineer is that you can't even distinguish between a design defect and a violation of operating rules. So, if our ship is on fire, that's a design flaw, but the fact that the overhaul deadlines have long since expired and the ship hasn't received any repairs (like Zakharov) or that it was not overhauled but by a VTG and from the "Sharas-Montazh" company (Moscow)—that's something you don't even consider.

            I simply suggested to you, an author with a background in history and archival studies, as far as I remember, not to equate operational disasters at sea, when all technical measures envisaged by the ship's design and the technical features of the weapons developed for it, as well as all organizational measures stipulated by the naval regulations of military fleets, with disasters during the construction and/or repair of a ship, when the technical and organizational measures of the shipyard should be primarily responsible for preventing these same disasters, because the relevant ship equipment is usually inoperable.

            On the same LHD-6 "Bonhomme Richard" the gas and foam fire extinguishing systems were turned off and inoperative, the fire main pumps were de-energized, and the compartment computer monitoring system (ICES) was turned off.

            Tell me, an engineer, what do the mistakes made by the ship's designers have to do with this, and what exactly were they? I'm really interested.

            If you continue to "equate with the same brush" catastrophic operational accidents at sea and disasters during construction and repair, I will simply have nothing to discuss with you due to your persistence in technical delusions at the level of a "housewife".

            Historical joke: "Napoleon once asked one of his generals why the fortress under his command capitulated without a single shot.
            "Sire," the general said, spreading his hands, "there were 18 reasons for that. First, I had no gunpowder..."
            “This reason alone is enough,” Napoleon interrupted him.
            1. +1
              22 July 2026 08: 04
              Quote: AlexanderA
              I am speaking to you, the author, with a historical and archival education, as far as I remember,

              And also sclerosis...
              Quote: AlexanderA
              Tell me, an engineer, what do the mistakes made by the ship's designers have to do with this, and what exactly were they? I'm really interested.

              It has nothing to do with it. Just like with Zakharov and Moscow (if it wasn't missiles involved). In both cases, the causes of the accident were different, unrelated to the ship's design. Therefore, if you had even the slightest understanding of the matter, you would never have written about it.
              Quote: AlexanderA
              A good illustration of the fact that the domestic school of designing combat surface ships for the nuclear missile era turned out to be significantly weaker than the American one.

              based on these accidents.
              But you wrote, which again demonstrated your technical incompetence and made me laugh once again.
        2. -1
          24 July 2026 13: 26
          For Russia, Admiral Kuznetsov is a suitcase without a handle. Write it off, of course. Otherwise, it'll sink itself. We need to do what we know how to do: 885, 22350, 20385.
      2. +1
        21 July 2026 16: 32
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        40 thousand tons, and not even at sea

        It reminded me of the sinking of the Lexington in 42, although without the list.
        1. +1
          22 July 2026 11: 36
          Quote: Novel 11
          It reminded me of the sinking of the Lexington in 42, although without the list.

          As Max Tokarev wrote, the Lady Lex drowned its own crew. First, the rules for filling the torpedo compartments were violated, resulting in the explosion of a Japanese aerial torpedo damaging the fuel tank. Then, after inspecting the explosion site, the ship's own survivability division found no leaks or vapors, leaving the emergency generator and switchboards in the compartment adjacent to the fuel tank operational.
          The end is a bit predictable ...
          1. 0
            22 July 2026 15: 17
            Quote: Alexey RA
            our own survivability division, having examined the site of the explosion, did not find any leaks or vapors

            They often forget the psychological aspect of battle. In the heat of battle, not only commanders but also commanders make mistakes... Yorktown, Hiryu, perhaps Akagi and Kagi could have saved the battle at Midway, but Yamamoto maneuvered, tried to force an artillery battle, and the striped ones clearly weren't happy with that scenario due to the ratio. The Japanese could have caught their luck with the abandoned Hornet - this is just off the top of my head, and I'm not an expert on the Pacific War... There was something else going on with the Shinano maneuver and the Taiho catching fire, they probably could have prevented it.
    3. +1
      22 July 2026 11: 30
      Quote: AlexanderA
      I don't recall the US Navy losing a guided missile destroyer or a guided missile cruiser "due to technical reasons" from catastrophic fires at sea.

      Well, yes, the USS Belknap (CG-26) was saved - but the superstructure was completely burned out.
      1. -1
        22 July 2026 21: 28
        Seven sailors died on the Belknap and one on the aircraft carrier John F. Kennedy.
  38. +2
    21 July 2026 13: 31
    There's only one question: who called the shots? Who determines the purpose of the fleet, and what it needs? They were building something there before the war. As far as that was possible. And the fact that our officers' brains are dying on their way to the admiralty... well, who's to blame? "Moskva" is interesting. But the story of the sinking of "Tsezar Kunnikov" is simply scandalous. For that, the Black Sea Fleet command should have been dealt with, like the Western Front command in WWII. And their complacency led to further mismanagement. So, we don't have a fleet as an organization. We have sailors. We don't have sailors.
  39. +2
    21 July 2026 13: 37
    All materials about the Black Sea Fleet's former glory, its glorious admirals and heroic crews, and its victorious battles can, unfortunately, be placed under the "History" section. There are also songs about Sevastopol there. The Black Sea Fleet is no longer really a navy, but rather a flotilla. Even without a flagship.
  40. 0
    21 July 2026 14: 23
    Absolutely correct conclusions: the Black Sea Fleet has no tasks that it can perform and that it is advisable for the Black Sea Fleet to perform.
    It’s just not clear why Andrey understands this; even I, who am far from the navy, understood this back in 22, but our admirals do NOT understand it.
  41. +5
    21 July 2026 15: 04
    The article seems to be correct. And the arguments are sound. But it all seems more like an excuse for one's own incompetence. I'm a person corrupted by my Soviet upbringing, where I was taught to work for results and not "make plausible excuses." So what happens? A colossus like the Black Sea Fleet has been hiding in the depths of the sea for five years and is unable to produce anything against a state that doesn't even have a navy. And there's no one to blame. We wouldn't have saved the country like that during the Great Patriotic War.
    1. +3
      21 July 2026 17: 28
      The problem is that the Black Sea Fleet's large surface combat ships (well, not large, from the old destroyer and larger) also "hid in the skerries" after October 6, 1943, until the end of the war. Why? Because:

      1. The incompetent planning of the Verp raid operation, during which the entire fighter aviation of the Black Sea Fleet failed to provide the necessary daytime cover for two destroyers and the leader from attacks by outdated Ju-87D dive bombers, which were covered by a flight or a squadron of Bf-109 fighters.

      2. The destroyers and the leader might have repelled at least the first and four dive bomber attacks with their own anti-aircraft weapons if they had not been equipped with four (on the leader "Kharkov" of Project 1) to seven (destroyer "Sposobny" of Project 7U) 37 mm 70-K automatic guns + 12,7 mm machine guns, but at least a dozen barrels of 37-40 mm automatic guns and 20-25 mm automatic cannons, instead of 12,7 mm machine guns.

      But no, launch the twin-barrel 37 mm automatic anti-aircraft gun mount V-11 developed in 1940 into serial production before the summer of 1943 and begin installing it on destroyers (state ship trials were conducted on the large hunter "Shturman" in the Northern Fleet from July 16 to August 12, 1944. Accepted into service on July 25, 1946), launch the 25 mm anti-aircraft gun 84-K developed in 1941 into serial production (Tests of the 84-K mount on a ship were conducted in May 1944, after which this artillery system was accepted into service and launched into serial production. In 1944, 260 mounts were produced, in 1945 - another 70 mounts), install on ships instead of DShK again Lend-Lease 20 mm After all, removing one triple-tube 533mm torpedo tube from the Oerlikons and installing a four-barrel Lend-Lease 40mm Bofors (the USSR didn't request them under Lend-Lease) isn't our method. The Soviet Navy had other technical priorities by October 1943.

      By October 1943, the third year of the Great Patriotic War, the air defense of the destroyers and leaders of the Black Sea Fleet was technically incapable of fending off group attacks by outdated Ju-87D dive bombers.

      Today, in the fifth year of the Northern Military District, the anti-boat defense of the Black Sea Fleet's large large naval vessels is technically incapable of repelling group attacks by unmanned combat vessels - the ships do not have specialized anti-boat guns.

      Tradition.

      https://militaryarticle.vibrokatok.by/zarubezhnoe-voennoe-obozrenie/2009-zvo/7713-artillerijskie-sistemy-protivokaternoj-oborony

      "Artillery systems for anti-boat defense of foreign naval ships" Captain 2nd rank V. Moskalov "Foreign Military Review" No. 6/2009, pp. 68-75

      "...A serious danger to ships and vessels is created by the group use of such boats ("flocks") or the use by terrorists (in exceptional cases) of remotely controlled (or suicide-controlled) boats filled with improvised explosive devices, demolition charges, and bombs. This new type of surface ("asymmetric") threat has stimulated the development of naval self-defense weapons in the navies of many Western countries (the large-caliber 12,7-mm machine guns traditionally installed on ships and combat boats alone no longer provide the necessary protection)..."
      1. +1
        21 July 2026 17: 57
        I know all those tragic stories about the Black Sea Fleet in WWII. But even then, the fleet was conducting operations, not hiding in bases. Now, there's no sign of any activity. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, I'd be happy if you correct me.
        1. +2
          21 July 2026 19: 29
          No activity of large BNC Black Sea Fleet forces was seen after October 6, 1943 and the Great Patriotic War.

          In fact, this is a long-standing tradition, dating back to 1854. The tradition continued during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–1878, when large warships of the Black Sea Fleet, including the coastal defense battleships Novgorod and Vice-Admiral Popov, "hid in their bases" (they made one combat sortie during the entire war to the Sulina branch of the Danube River to support ground forces and cover Russian minefields), while active operations were carried out by armed civilian steamships Velikiy Knyaz Konstantin, Vesta, Rossiya, Livadia, Argonaut, etc., and minelaying boats.

          The modern Black Sea Fleet has had a shortage of its own unmanned combat vessels for four years. Therefore, any significant operations involving groups of such boats only began recently. And the Black Sea Fleet's large, purpose-built large combat vessels, in keeping with long-standing traditions, have been in service since March 2024.
      2. +1
        22 July 2026 11: 58
        Quote: AlexanderA
        1. The incompetent planning of the Verp raid operation, during which the entire fighter aviation of the Black Sea Fleet failed to provide the necessary daytime cover for two destroyers and the leader from attacks by outdated Ju-87D dive bombers, which were covered by a flight or a squadron of Bf-109 fighters.

        The destruction of the first two ships can't be blamed on "the entire fighter force"—they were sunk when only a few "axes" could provide air cover (their range was such that several aircraft even had to make forced landings due to fuel exhaustion). But the last destroyer—yes, it was sunk within the Yak radius.
        Quote: AlexanderA
        2. The destroyers and the leader might have repelled at least the first and four dive bomber attacks with their own anti-aircraft weapons if they had not been equipped with four (on the leader "Kharkov" of Project 1) to seven (destroyer "Sposobny" of Project 7U) 37 mm 70-K automatic guns + 12,7 mm machine guns, but at least a dozen barrels of 37-40 mm automatic guns and 20-25 mm automatic cannons, instead of 12,7 mm machine guns.

        For God's sake, you demand that the USSR in 1943 arm its destroyers according to American standards of 1945.
        The Yankees themselves had only just begun to receive serial Bofors tanks in 1943.
        Quote: AlexanderA
        By October 1943, the Soviet Navy had other technical priorities.

        The Soviet Navy, first and foremost, had Soviet industry. For the Navy, orders were the last priority—in 1943, it had to first replace the army's losses during the winter operations, and then deal with the same after the Battle of Kursk. It couldn't even put a new medium tank into production—it couldn't reduce shaft plan.
        And yes, the B-11 won't offer much in the way of air defense. It's still the same 70-K with its manual guidance drives, only with two barrels. To create a proper air defense system, you need power drives and a director control system. Oh, and the MPUAZO for the ZKDB. How many MPUAZO kits did the "Seven" get? wink
        1. 0
          22 July 2026 20: 56
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The destruction of the first two ships cannot be attributed to the "entire fighter air force" - they were sunk when only a few "axes" could provide air cover.

          Along with the P-40 and P-39, such wonderful things as drop tanks (external fuel tanks) were supplied under Lend-Lease. And while Soviet pilots didn't discard these drop tanks, as our ace Pokryshkin did (see his memoirs), the P-40E's patrol time at 200 km from its home airfield was 1,5-2 hours, while the P-39K-1's was 2,5-3 hours.

          If the people in charge at Black Sea Fleet headquarters had used their heads instead of their caps, at least eight P-39s and P-40s could have been on patrol over the detachment by 6 a.m. And by 9 a.m. (the time of the first German bombing attack), the naval detachment, departing Feodosia not at 20-24 knots (with a stop to retrieve the crew of the downed German reconnaissance aircraft), but at least 30 knots, could have already been within 60 km of Gelendzhik airfield, with at least two squadrons of Yaks and LaGGs "hovering" over the detachment.

          https://brummel.borda.ru/?1-10-0-00000046-000-0-0-1183756466

          "From 6:00 from the point 44.51 N/35.20 E, Aircobra and Kittyhawk fighters of the operationally subordinate squadron of the 7th Fighter Aviation Regiment of the 4th Fighter Aviation Division* cover the withdrawal and passage of the destroyers to 44.10 N/38.00 E.

          * Black Sea Fleet headquarters reports state that the fleet possessed only six fighters of this type. However, as of October 15, 1943, the 7th Fighter Aviation Regiment had 17 serviceable and one faulty Kittyhawk, and the 30th RAP had at least five aircraft of this type. During October, the Black Sea Fleet Air Force received eight P-40s, one of which was written off. As of November 1, 1943, the Black Sea Fleet Air Force had 31 P-40s. ***"
          For God's sake, you demand that the USSR in 1943 arm its destroyers according to American standards of 1945.

          The 1945 "American Standard" for Fletcher-class destroyers is:

          https://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/arm_6/

          14 x 40 mm Bofors in three twin and two quadruple mounts and 12 x 20 mm Oerlikon in six twin mounts.

          And the "American standard" since the beginning of 1943 is:

          https://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/arm_4/

          6 x 40 mm Bofors in three twin mounts and 8 to 13 x 20 mm Oerlikon in single mounts.

          From mid-1943 the "standard":

          https://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/arm_5/

          10 x 40 mm Bofors in five twin mounts and 7 x 20 mm Oerlikon in single mounts

          I understand that in 1943, instead of tearfully pleading with the Soviet leadership to launch serial production of the twin 37mm AU V-11 (remember, developed in 1940 and accepted into service in 1946) and the 25mm AU 84-K, the Soviet Navy command demanded Lend-Lease deliveries followed by the installation of twin and quadruple 40mm Bofors guns with directors and 20mm Oerlikons on warships. It remains to be seen what those priorities were.
          The Soviet Navy prioritized Soviet industry, for which naval orders were of last importance.

          If you don't respect yourself, no one will. The Russian Navy has never respected itself, and still doesn't. After all, the Russian Navy has lacked a coherent technical policy since roughly the mid-19th century, and for over 170 years now. Imitation of Western navies, lurching from one extreme to another ("unbalanced fleet"), and attempts to find examples of naval "wunderwaffe" from "Popovkas" to titanium "Goldfish" and today's "Poseidons." Specialization and, of course, as many projects as possible. The ideal technical policy since the late Soviet era has been to avoid large-scale production. It is preferable to build only lead ships.
          She couldn't even put a new medium tank into production - she couldn't reduce the production plan.

          The Soviet Navy "conservatively" adopted the 37mm 70-K assault rifle from Soviet industry until 1955. The Soviet Army refused to accept the new 37mm 61-K assault rifles as early as 1946. Even then, the entire 1946 production went to the ZSU-37. Even today, the Soviet Navy's primary anti-boat weapon is the 14,5mm MTPU-1.
          Model from the 1950s. Production of the MTPU-1 continues. Explain the Russian Navy's conservatism?
          And yes, the B-11 won't offer much in the way of air defense. It's still the same 70-K with its manual guidance drives, only with two barrels.

          You apparently aren't aware that the V-11 had water-cooled barrels, unlike the 70-K. According to the design, the V-11 gun was also supposed to have an electric stabilization mechanism. Even the production V-11 and V-11M guns did have one, but "during the operation of the V-11 and V-11M guns on cruisers and destroyers, the stabilization mechanisms were disabled (plugged)." The Soviet Navy received V-11M guns from industry until 1957.

          1. "Can it be better? It can. But why?"
          2. "That'll do!"

          Apparently, this is how the main technical priorities of the Russian Navy have been formulated over the last ~170 years.
    2. 0
      22 July 2026 15: 33
      Quote: oleg Pesotsky
      A colossus like the Black Sea Fleet is hiding all over the skerries.

      They weren't preparing for that war, how many cavalry corps were there on the eve of '41?
      I still believe, and the more time goes by, that as soon as we master underground technologies and modern equipment for digging tunnels appears, the era of frontline drones will immediately end, especially given the balance of power
      Victory is also the ability to impose one's methods of war
      1. +1
        22 July 2026 20: 03
        Quote: Novel 11
        How many cavalry corps were there on the eve of 41?

        In fact, these corps were abolished in 1946.
        There's one thing to note here: they didn't fight on horseback with sabers. They were infantry, transported on horseback, and they were armed with tanks, artillery, and aircraft. The notorious myth of dumb cavalrymen emerged during perestroika as part of propaganda.
        1. 0
          22 July 2026 23: 25
          Quote: Dart2027
          The notorious myth

          I wasn't giving a mythical example here; people really did prepare horse-drawn lavas, despite Poland in 39 and France in 40, with the innovation of dominant aviation... it was in Spain too.
          Somewhere in the books there is information about the expenses for the cavalry and navy in 41... I can't say for sure, you have to look for it, but there was a lot of cavalry, they added another corps, it seems like the day before there were 4 cavalry and 20 cavalry

          To get the point across, the bureaucratic apparatus is weakly susceptible to new trends. It's a machine, a system, and even a group of enthusiasts working together isn't always capable of turning the tide. You see, security is controlled by the top brass, and as we know, they're largely incompetent. Before it reaches the top, significant losses must be suffered, preferably not irreparable ones. The most precious thing in war is time lag.

          Frankly, we were lucky; the enemy, in parallel, began developing new methods of warfare before the war, although weapons like Starlink are still not available to us, and we take into account that scientific and technological superiority is also not on our side and will increase over time - this is where we need to pay attention right away, but there are also advantages: the direct enemy is depleting its soldier resources, and their allies, assistants, and mercenaries don't like our Kabas; the West doesn't like Kabas at all, we are developing in this direction
          1. VlK
            +2
            23 July 2026 12: 59
            I wasn't giving a mythical example here; people really did prepare horse-drawn lavas, despite Poland in 39 and France in 40, with the innovation of dominant aviation... it was in Spain too.
            Somewhere in the books there is information about the expenses for the cavalry and navy in 41... I can't say for sure, you have to look for it, but there was a lot of cavalry, they added another corps, it seems like the day before there were 4 cavalry and 20 cavalry

            Who prepared our horse lavas?
            Due to the insufficient motorization of the cavalry, cavalry divisions served as the basis for the deployment of horse-mechanized groups designed to penetrate the front during the offensive, disrupt the enemy's rear, and conduct encirclement operations in accordance with the theory of deep operations. This was later implemented quite successfully in 41 near Moscow and extremely successfully in 45 in Manchuria.
            1. -1
              23 July 2026 16: 28
              Quote: VlK
              Who prepared our horse lavas?

              you can't hear me...
              I was actually talking about technological revolutions that push back doctrines, concepts, and strategies. I understand you like military history, but I was talking about drastic changes.

              Well, yes, someone will find benefit from the cavalry masses. Budyonny, Voroshilov, or Shchadenko, they linked their fates with it, and indeed, any weapon has its efficiency, but under changing conditions, it plummets. The time came and consigned cavalry to history. How long was it present on the battlefield? 3,4,5 thousand years? Then came tank columns, which were pushed aside by drones.

              By the way, regarding the cavalry, it did make a certain contribution, in 41 near Moscow, and in 44 mainly, and again, in my opinion, only in cramped conditions, when the Germans were hiding in huts, there was focal resistance, tanks didn't drive through snowdrifts, the air force reduced its sorties... In 44, it worked under the absolute dominance of our air force with tank reinforcements, otherwise infantry on horses, although in my opinion, armored personnel carriers and motorized infantry are much more effective, here, admittedly, there is still a lot of cross-country, but the fact is - 200 thousand, and maybe more with full provision of the necessary conditions, is too much, in my humble opinion, the same Armatas now at the front will also bring some benefit - they will deliver a trailer with food closer to the front line, etc., but what is the efficiency of such an expensive toy? That's what it was made for
              I think I expressed myself clearly, I don't see the point in further discussion. soldier
              1. VlK
                +1
                23 July 2026 17: 06
                you can't hear me...
                I was actually talking about technological revolutions pushing back doctrines

                In my opinion, it's the other way around, you're doing the opposite to me))
                Our military leaders in the 30s were already well-versed in the new conditions and opportunities, but there was absolutely no way to quickly acquire the necessary equipment to create motorized units and formations. Therefore, the use of cavalry divisions and corps to form such units and formations, reinforced with tanks and artillery, was considered as a temporary solution, as only they could provide the required troop mobility at the time. Until the cavalry reached the required level of motorization. Which is what actually happened a little later in practice.
          2. +1
            23 July 2026 19: 41
            Quote: Novel 11
            People actually prepared horse lavas

            I don't recall our cavalry ever attacking anyone with mounted lava. That is, perhaps there were rare instances, but they were the exception to the rule.
            Quote: Novel 11
            I can't say, I need to look, but there was a lot of cavalry, they added another corps, it seems like the day before there were 4 kk and 20 kd

            Of course, there were a lot. But it fought quite effectively, not in mounted formations, of course, and, as I already wrote, it was abandoned after the war.
  42. +2
    21 July 2026 15: 52
    I disagree with the author
    Well, first of all, regarding NATO aircraft, it would be perfectly possible to declare a no-fly zone over the waters, first shoot down UAVs, and then perhaps aircraft of Western "partners"

    As for supplying Ukraine, I think the Black Sea Fleet has the appropriate anti-ship missiles capable of reaching ships in the territorial waters of Romania, Bulgaria, and even at the exit from the Bosphorus.

    Even those same submarines can patrol along territorial waters and are armed with long-range torpedoes (opinion of an armchair strategist)
    1. +1
      21 July 2026 16: 31
      Quote: OlegEKB
      Well, first of all, regarding NATO aircraft, it would be perfectly possible to declare a no-fly zone over the waters, first shoot down UAVs, and then perhaps aircraft of Western "partners"

      Yes, but it's up to the president to decide, not the navy.
      Quote: OlegEKB
      As for supplying Ukraine, I think the Black Sea Fleet has the appropriate anti-ship missiles capable of reaching ships in the territorial waters of Romania, Bulgaria, and even at the exit from the Bosphorus.

      Yes. However, their use is possible ONLY after the president's decision to liquidate all vessels trading with Ukraine, regardless of their flag, meaning including vessels from third countries.
      The question is about a political decision, and until it is made, the fleet is powerless.
    2. +1
      21 July 2026 18: 03
      I completely agree. Closing the port of Odessa and the mouth of the Danube is a feasible task even under current conditions. Although the author is right to point out that the decision is political. I also completely agree with the no-fly zone, although my knowledge is lacking (I'm a sailor, not a pilot, after all). I think something could be devised if the desire was there. It's all a matter of desire and professionalism, I think.
  43. +3
    21 July 2026 15: 53
    The army and navy represent a cross-section of society. I was once in Novorossiysk and went on a tour of the Zubkov Battery, located near the city, on the seashore. I noticed the luxurious buildings adjacent, literally right next to the battery, some of which bore naval insignia. I asked the tour guide what they were? He waved me off and said, "This is our little Naval Riviera." fellow
  44. +2
    21 July 2026 16: 18
    The scandal surrounding the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, which was fitted with Chinese bearings instead of domestic ones, has led to three SPZ-4 LLC executives being suspected of large-scale fraud related to the execution of state defense contracts: Denis Kotov, Vitaly Zlobin, and Commercial Director Yuri Zhurba.
    The Samara District Court will soon begin hearing the motions of the lawyers for all three defendants, who have been in pretrial detention since May.
    The damage from just one delivery is estimated at 300 million rubles, and the total could be as high as 1 billion. Instead of using the specified domestic bearings, they cut corners and bought Chinese ones, which, as it turned out, were not suitable.
    Last year, the Admiral Kuznetsov was considered for mothballing or being cut up for scrap. The total cost of its modernization could reach a record 100 billion rubles, so for now, the ship sits idle and rusts.


    I wonder who the Navy is fighting? With itself?
  45. +3
    21 July 2026 17: 53
    What did I just read? An excuse for incompetence and the inability to organize naval service competently and effectively, given the available forces and resources. With skillful organization, and knowledge of the naval forces' availability and capabilities, the loss of so many units could have been prevented. The entire article is a travesty of justice.
  46. -1
    21 July 2026 18: 22
    And who's stopping them from quietly launching surface-to-air or air-to-air missiles from a designated area into the Black Sea against enemy AWACS and UAVs?
  47. +2
    21 July 2026 20: 09
    It is interesting that the author omitted the protection of sea communications from the list of tasks of the Navy during wartime.

    Unfortunately, when the Black Sea Fleet's surface combat ships, "for technical reasons," are incapable of successfully defending themselves at sea even against groups of enemy kamikaze drones, let alone against sea-skimming subsonic anti-ship missiles and potential attacks by large groups of low-speed kamikaze UAVs, then the task of "protecting trade" and their own civilian shipping in the waters of the Black and Azov Seas can hardly be considered.
    1. 0
      22 July 2026 08: 14
      Quote: AlexanderA
      It is interesting that the author omitted the protection of sea communications from the list of tasks of the Navy during wartime.

      This is called creating an A2/AD zone and this issue is discussed in this article.
      1. 0
        22 July 2026 22: 26
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        This is called creating an A2/AD zone and this issue is discussed in this article.

        It seems that you received your naval education... in the city of Annapolis, Maryland. :)))

        https://prussia.online/Data/Book/mo/morskoy-sbornik-2022-11/Морской%20сборник.%202022.%20№%2011-12.pdf

        "The main objectives of the use of the forces and troops of the Navy in wartime are:

        weakening the military-economic potential of the enemy, disorganization of its state and military control systems;
        maintaining the groupings of naval strategic nuclear forces;
        weakening enemy attacks from ocean and sea directions;
        holding territory and objects from being captured by the enemy;
        gaining and maintaining dominance in certain operationally important areas
        areas of the World Ocean;
        creating favorable conditions for troops operating in coastal areas.
        The stated goals are achieved by completing the following tasks:
        repelling attacks by enemy aerospace attack weapons;
        destruction of ground targets on the territory of enemy states;
        Ensuring the combat stability of strategic missile submarine groups;
        search and destruction of enemy submarines;
        defeat of aircraft carriers and other naval groups (groups) of the enemy Navy;
        disruption of enemy ocean (sea) transportation;
        defense of basing areas, sea communications and areas of maritime economic activity;
        defense of the sea coast and territory of the Russian Federation (within the designated area of ​​responsibility);
        assistance to forces (troops) operating in coastal areas.

        The specified tasks are carried out by groups of forces (troops) created in accordance with the decisions of the commanders (commanders) of the naval formations."

        https://dictionary.mil.ru/folder/123101/item/127673/

        In wartime: weakening enemy attacks from sea and ocean directions, and in certain directions - repelling the offensive (in the initial period of a war - invasion) of enemy land groups, holding territory and objects from capture; defeat of enemy ground targets; defeat of aircraft carriers, strike and other naval groups of the enemy Navy; search for and destruction of enemy submarines; disruption of enemy ocean and sea transportation; defense of basing areas, sea communications and areas of maritime economic activity; assistance to troops operating in coastal areas, including the landing of amphibious assault forces, the defeat of enemy amphibious assault forces, and the solution of other tasks.

        https://dictionary.mil.ru/folder/123101/item/127691/

        The defense of sea lanes is a task of the Navy, accomplished with the overall goal of ensuring the transportation (delivery) by sea of ​​a given (required) quantity (volume) of troops (in some cases, civilians), military or economic cargo to a designated area(s) by a given deadline in the face of counteraction by enemy forces. The overall goal of the defense of sea lanes, depending on the purpose and types of sea transportation, may be expressed in the following specific objectives: reinforcement and supply by sea of ​​troop (force) groups operating in coastal areas; evacuation by sea of ​​troops (civilians) from isolated areas; delivery (removal) by sea of ​​raw materials, food, finished goods and other important economic cargo. The solution of this task at the operational level provides for the implementation of a set of defensive and offensive actions by forces for the following purposes: direct defense of sea lanes facilities from the impact of enemy forces; cover of loading (unloading) points, vessels located there and during passage by sea from attacks from the sea and air; defeat of enemy forces acting against or posing a direct threat to sea communications facilities.

        P.S. Could you please cite sources on how the Anglicism "Anti-access/area denial" (A2/AD) correctly translates into a description of the Russian Navy's missions during wartime? :)

        Can you provide examples of the Navy's recent successes in defending sea lanes from enemy forces, especially ships in transit?
  48. +1
    21 July 2026 21: 26
    In defense of the Russian Black Sea Fleet? A fleet that can't fight and can't defend itself or what it's supposed to defend? Is that really a fleet?
  49. 0
    21 July 2026 22: 54
    As usual, there's a lot of whining and excuses, and no one to blame. There are generals and admirals, BUT NO COMMANDERS! There's no navy as such. Who did this? There's no answer yet, and there never will be...
  50. 0
    21 July 2026 23: 35
    Judging by the arguments in the article, what fled Sevastopol is no longer a navy. Given the objectives listed, there's nothing to be expected from this gathering; there's a reasonable explanation for everything, and everything is pointless. But pretending to be a combat unit while hiding in the bay—that's fine. It's kind of sad; there's supposedly a navy, but no navy. It's like indestructible bridges, an unwillingness to reduce the number of high-ranking Ukrainian bigwigs, constant tourists from Europe wandering around with complete impunity as if they were at home, and much, much more.
    You can wear your finger down on the keyboard and argue with your opponents on the website until you're hoarse, but it won't change anything.
  51. 0
    21 July 2026 23: 51
    The naval officers found themselves out of work in the compressed theater of military operations. The poorly floating iron boxes turned out to be easy targets for any kind of destruction.
  52. 0
    22 July 2026 01: 40
    The author writes:
    "It is obvious that the presence of NATO intelligence agents, which our armed forces have no right to destroy..."
    Yes, this is the bitter truth.
    Such an order will never come.
    But there is no desire or will to use the old scheme with the missile defense system operators (the Houthis), to whom the missile defense systems located in Crimea were leased.
    If there's one thing these brave bastards know, it's shooting down those lousy American Reapers! And their Fabergés seem to be made of tungsten—they're not afraid of anything.
  53. 0
    22 July 2026 07: 21
    Where are our BEC swarms, blocking enemy ports and attacking every vessel carrying enemy cargo?
    BEC, this is also a fleet.
    1. 0
      22 July 2026 08: 15
      Quote from vicvic
      Where are our BEC swarms, blocking enemy ports and attacking every vessel carrying enemy cargo?

      Where is the president's decision to allow such attacks?
      1. 0
        22 July 2026 08: 45
        Are you aware of all the president's decisions, other than those published in the media? Especially since they've finally started hitting enemy ships, but only with drones and missiles.
        But that's not the point. In the article, while discussing the Black Sea Fleet, the author didn't mention anything about BEKs, which begs the question: how are we doing with this component of the fleet and why do we use them so rarely?
        1. 0
          22 July 2026 08: 56
          Quote from vicvic
          Are you aware of all the president's decisions?

          What are you trying to say?:)) What was the secret decision that the Black Sea Fleet did not implement?:))))))
          1. +1
            22 July 2026 09: 14
            I didn't mention any decisions at all. For some reason, you decided that using BECs requires a decision, even from the President himself.
            This is not what we are talking about at all.
            I will repeat what I wrote in the previous post.
            The point is that the article about the Black Sea Fleet says nothing about our unmanned combat aircraft. I'm curious about how we're doing with them and why they're used so rarely.
            1. 0
              22 July 2026 09: 41
              Quote from vicvic
              For some reason, you decided that the use of BECs requires a decision from the President himself.

              I decided "for some reason" that attacking ships sailing under a non-Ukrainian flag—that is, under the flags of other countries—was a political decision. Because according to the laws of war, such ships must be stopped, searched, and only if the search reveals the presence of military cargo can they be destroyed or captured.
      2. 0
        22 July 2026 09: 44
        No offense:
        Why is permission from the Supreme Commander required to carry out a combat mission?
        Or mom won't let you?!
        1. +1
          22 July 2026 10: 00
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          No offense:

          On you?!! Absolutely not. Write whatever you think is necessary, I'll always answer to the point.
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          Why is permission from the Supreme Commander required to carry out a combat mission?

          I wrote about this in the comment, let me quote it
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Attacking ships flying a non-Ukrainian flag—that is, the flags of other countries—is a political decision. Because according to the laws of war, such vessels must be stopped, searched, and only if the search reveals the presence of military cargo can they be destroyed or captured.
          1. +2
            22 July 2026 10: 17
            Thank you!
            I understand that. I'm talking about something else.
            We have admirals with many stars (I rarely spoke with counter-revolutionaries in my time, and only once with a vice-commander) who retire without having completed a single combat mission. What laws? Who's going to investigate?! It's well depicted in the film "Vivat, Midshipmen!", where the cavalry commander, seeing what's happening, addresses the dragoons: "Forward, lads! Cut them to pieces, crush them to pieces!"
            So it is here: drown them all, the enemy (and we have enemies all around!) should feel nothing but horror at the thought of meeting the Russians. They will STILL SET UP A BLOCKADE on us, it's in their genes, and our exemplary behavior won't change anything. So it's high time to take revenge for that Blockade where the President's little brother remained.
            And diplomacy is only a disaster. After Shevchenko's betrayal, it became clear which god they worship.
            1. +2
              22 July 2026 10: 56
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              But diplomacy brings only harm.

              I completely, absolutely agree.
              NATO's leadership will always hate us, and nothing can be done about it. But we can and should make them fear us to the point of insanity while continuing to hate us.
  54. 0
    22 July 2026 10: 01
    Quote: Vent
    They will have to sink it, this means a military incident, if the ships are under the Russian flag - a declaration of war.

    We are closely monitoring the situation. A criminal case has been opened. We remind everyone of the freedom of navigation enshrined in international law.
  55. +1
    22 July 2026 10: 59
    During a war, any fleet must perform some combat missions. For example, protecting our dry cargo ship routes in the Sea of ​​Azov or the Crimean coast from UAVs. Perhaps the fleet should be equipped with additional rapid-fire anti-aircraft guns.
    1. +1
      22 July 2026 11: 04
      Quote: pavel.tipin
      During a war, any fleet must perform some combat missions. For example, protecting our dry cargo ship routes in the Sea of ​​Azov or the Crimean coast from UAVs. Perhaps the fleet should be equipped with additional rapid-fire anti-aircraft guns.

      During World War II, anti-aircraft ships appeared—even cruisers and battleships, not to mention patrol ships. But as usual, we squandered this trend...
      1. +1
        26 July 2026 11: 01
        You're right. When G.K. Zhukov flew to Leningrad in 1941 to replace Voroshilov, he was informed that the Baltic Fleet was prepared for destruction. Zhukov responded: "The ships must perish in battle." Of course, the current situation dictates that the ships must be refitted to repel enemy air attacks and must perform combat missions.
  56. 0
    22 July 2026 11: 11
    Nothing will work with degenerates and moribunds...
  57. +1
    22 July 2026 16: 59
    In defense of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation

    ...The Black Sea Fleet will indeed have to be defended. I'm ready. Especially since it's my favorite fleet! I spent my bare-bellied childhood on the beach, gazing at its ships.
  58. -2
    22 July 2026 17: 56
    And what is the conclusion?
    Did you sit down, drool and give up?
    So what?
    That the culprits were not found?

    The fish rots from the head, the fleet has rotted, like part of the Russian Armed Forces of the 90s.
    No, the officers and sailors weren't idle. They showed up for duty every day, maintained the engine room, and even went to sea. Sometimes, not far away. 😆 To Syria and back.
    It is not their fault that the ships and maritime art of our state have aged and are being retired.

    What kind of pension is that for a ship? Rusty iron afloat and sold to banana republics.
    Unfortunately, it would have been better if they had sold them to the oligarchs. At least there would have been money.
    The worst thing is that if it weren’t for this war, this decay would have continued.
    Alas!
    Moscow and St. Petersburg would be reveling in drunken, naked revelry. The prima donna and her gang would be frolicking in the lap of luxury, bloggers of all levels would be hogging the internet, and the country would be raking in the dough. Kupio, from overseas, would be imported to Russia and sold successfully, tripling the price. Oh, sorry, he forgot, he hid the taxes.
    Classic!
    But then the war began, and suddenly the enemy captured an entire region of Russia and began threatening the country. And after several unsuccessful operations, ships began to be hit and sunk, even in naval bases that, incidentally, had been diligently preparing for war for 80 years.🤪

    And what about the ships? They're not fit for modern combat. And with the kind of warfare we're going through and the advancement of missile technology in Ukraine, they'll be defeated. Maybe not tomorrow, but in a year or two.

    What should we do? The best option is to move them north. They don't have such combat-ready ships there yet; they'll be useful and serve the Fatherland. And the Swedes are building a new fleet. We need to counter them somehow.
    Just how?
    But on the other hand, who's going to stop them? Friend Recep Erdogan? Well, he'll try, but they'll keep going. Surely he won't drown them?
    There will be no Black Sea Fleet, it will be calmer.
    The border guards will remain, and the Black Sea Fleet bases will help them move to the next level.
    Next, organize a coast guard on the coast.
    Ah, we need to build ships urgently.
    And there are others, maneuverable, with reliable anti-aircraft, anti-aircraft, and armor protection—at least a hundred of them—all over the shipyards of our still-friends. And submarines.
    The future is theirs.
    Where to get money?
    Take it from the oligarchs, from everyone who stole it. Shut down unnecessary projects. Sell the land to the people for perpetual use, including its mineral resources. And not like now: it's supposedly mine, but they can take it away. 😏
    Ah, that's a lot of money, creepy!
    Otherwise, ladies and gentlemen, it will be a complete mess!
    And very soon.
  59. +1
    22 July 2026 22: 04
    When Admiral Oktyabrsky was interrogated about why the garrison of besieged Sevastopol was abandoned to the mercy of the Germans, he flatly declared that ships were more expensive after the war. He really didn't like meeting with veterans in Sevastopol. The Black Sea Fleet spent almost the entire war in the Novorossiysk area, and if the Germans had taken the Caucasus, it would have been finished. This doesn't remind you of anything from today's scenario.
    1. +3
      24 July 2026 10: 30
      Quote from: odisey3000
      And so the Black Sea Fleet spent almost the entire war in the Novorossiysk area, and if the Germans had taken the Caucasus, it would have been finished.

      After the Germans captured the Kerch Peninsula, the Black Sea Fleet could only die heroically on the approaches to Sevastopol. Without fighter cover, even warships were unable to fend off the enemy attacks. The only defense was maneuver, which disrupted the formation and left the ships under cover unprotected.
      Even speed didn't help - on its last voyage, the LD Tashkent was able to reach Sevastopol intact only because the rams were sinking the EM Bezuprechny at that time.
      And yes, the Black Sea Fleet's ships in 1942 were disposable. Any moderate damage would have put them out of combat service for a long time. All shipbuilding and repair facilities in the Black Sea had been captured by the enemy. The entire fleet had only one 10000-ton floating dock, consisting of two sections. The cruisers were suspended in the halves of this floating dock.
  60. 0
    23 July 2026 17: 08
    The tool is put away and rusting, while the cost of it remains.
  61. -1
    24 July 2026 11: 41
    The article's premise is that "his grenades are the wrong system." The navy's inability to solve any of these problems speaks to the rigidity and inflexibility of the system. In the current reality, this is a fatal diagnosis. Apparently, drones have solved the problem of shutting down shipping in Ukrainian ports. Even Zelensky is complaining.
    1. +1
      24 July 2026 17: 11
      Quote: Marlin
      The message of the article sounds like "his grenades are of the wrong system."

      No
      1. 0
        24 July 2026 19: 58
        A compelling argument, of course. You yourself wrote in your article that the Black Sea Fleet failed to accomplish a single task assigned to it. The reason, supposedly, is that the enemy isn't fighting properly. We were practicing long-range missile combat missions, but the enemy didn't show up for the long-range missile combat missions, you see. Instead, they used unmanned forces and accomplished almost all the tasks assigned to the fleet.
        1. +1
          25 July 2026 05: 46
          Quote: Marlin
          You yourself wrote in your article that the Black Sea Fleet failed to cope with any of the tasks assigned to it.

          And again - no. I didn't write that.
          Quote: Marlin
          A convincing argument, of course.

          How should I argue with a person who can’t read an article on 4 A4 sheets and who is completely fantasizing about what is written in it?
          1. 0
            26 July 2026 21: 16
            The point is that the Black Sea Fleet is trapped in its most remote base and has lost all initiative with approximately 40% losses. This means complete failure. Cruise missiles could have been fired at coastal targets by small missile ships/aircraft (?) or even from shore-based carriers. And even this made a dubious contribution.
            1. +1
              26 July 2026 22: 22
              Quote: Andrey Loginov
              The point is that the Black Sea Fleet is locked in the most remote base

              Only it's not locked.
              Quote: Andrey Loginov
              and lost all initiative

              He didn't lose her. He just has no tasks.
              Quote: Andrey Loginov
              with approximately 40% losses

              Write 80%, paper will bear everything
              1. 0
                27 July 2026 14: 47
                The ability to put to sea doesn't necessarily mean it will influence the course of combat operations. The number of casualties—damaged and sunk—is significant. If it were a threat, the toll would be higher. It's not the number that's important, but the fact that nothing will prevent it from being increased in previously unexpected ways.
                1. +1
                  27 July 2026 14: 53
                  Quote: Andrey Loginov
                  The ability to go to sea does not yet mean influence on the course of the BD.

                  So I'm asking you: how should the Black Sea Fleet have influenced the course of the military conflict? Please, make specific proposals.
                  1. 0
                    28 July 2026 15: 44
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    specific proposals

                    But really, what radical changes could he do?
                    Landing in Odessa at the very beginning?
                    1. +1
                      28 July 2026 15: 50
                      Quote: Senior Sailor
                      But really, what radical changes could he do?

                      That's a great question, but I don't really have an answer. We might have taken Odessa in one fell swoop, but how would we have held it afterward?
                      1. +1
                        28 July 2026 16: 07
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        We might have taken Odessa in one fell swoop, but how would we have held it afterwards?

                        So ... request
                  2. 0
                    28 July 2026 18: 36
                    Not at all with its current roster. A landing operation? That's like - old junk 1164 for modernization :))). It could have an impact - if it were comparable to the Ukrainian Armed Forces: just not with pennants, but with a critical eye, no problem. The Black Sea Fleet headquarters thinks that now they need to whistle about... BEKs/drones, etc. If everything drags on (and apparently no one is in a hurry), then the methods and tools will be completely different. But the command will remain the same (well, maybe it will improve a little due to fear - they say it aggravates).
  62. RMT
    0
    24 July 2026 14: 27
    This decision is in line with the foreign policy course of our country's leadership...
    Navy Day is coming soon
  63. +1
    26 July 2026 15: 29
    The Black Sea Fleet couldn't even defend itself—it lost its flagship and a bunch of ships. What operations is the author talking about?
  64. 0
    26 July 2026 20: 54
    The Black Sea Fleet is incapable of fighting a fleet that doesn't exist. Neither the Baltic Fleet's naval defenses nor amphibious operations are useless given the mine/drone threat and the threat from large missile systems. The naval complement is unbalanced, and the tactics for launching cruise missiles from ships are outdated. Command always operates with the available forces, assets, and resources based on its own guidance documents and its own innate genius (if any). Without state policy, there can be no victory. And the navy is a unified structure. One can be sure the Baltic Fleet will fare even worse. As for the Caspian Fleet, one can only assume that things aren't much better there.
  65. 0
    26 July 2026 21: 00
    In closed theaters of military operations (the Black Sea, the Baltic), the main role is played by distributed potential—a swarm! Be it aviation, small missile/rocket ships, and reconnaissance/target control/attack drones, both surface and airborne. Do such assets exist? Or are they being developed? It's unlikely that developing a concept for a naval combat capability in modern warfare is within the purview of its command—it plays with the cards it's dealt.
  66. +2
    28 July 2026 08: 11
    It's worth noting that the Black Sea Fleet commanders have changed eight times over the past 10 years: 2-3 years, then a new one, 2-3 years, then a new one. These are brave men, they went on campaigns, conquered the seas. All of them graduated from the highest educational institutions of the Ministry of Defense. Apparently, they weren't taught the right things, and the practice isn't up to par. They haven't been taught the realities of modern warfare. Although unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) have already been used in conflicts.
    1. +1
      28 July 2026 18: 43
      That's right. ..... No matter how you guys sit down, you're still no good at being musicians. What they teach you in the academies (according to a fellow graduate) doesn't correlate with the actual state of affairs. Conquering the seas and modern warfare are not quite the same thing -- the commander of an excellent (objectively and according to documents) ship doesn't make a navy. And a navy outside the framework of a general concept (practically well-functioning interaction with the army and air force) won't be able to make any significant contribution, but will only suffer defeat. With the Black Sea Fleet still alive, drones are running amok in the Sea of ​​Azov -- how many tankers have been shot down?
  67. 0
    29 July 2026 19: 02
    The Black Sea Fleet is fighting as usual. It was the same during WWII!!!
  68. NSV
    0
    29 July 2026 20: 07
    Bottom line: Well done everyone! Billions spent! Who's to blame and what to do—posterity will figure it out!!! Ushakov and Nakhimov... They've already turned over in that world five times! :(
  69. 0
    30 July 2026 07: 59
    The navy cannot establish a naval blockade of the Ukrainian coast because it does not have permission from the country's top leadership.

    The article's main point is somewhat misinterpreted. The navy could indeed establish a naval blockade, even using the Crimean Navy's naval forces alone, but it's being prevented from doing so.
  70. 0
    30 July 2026 09: 03
    This is entirely possible, but it would be an escalation of the conflict. Our leadership now has a completely different foreign policy direction: at all levels, it is striving to demonstrate its ability to negotiate and its readiness for a peace that takes Russia's interests into account.
    This is the main idea of ​​the article: a deal is needed... I wonder if Stalin would have considered such a possibility during the Great Patriotic War?