Military Review

ZIS-3 the same age as the Great Patriotic War

62



22 June 1941, a prototype of the most famous cannon of the Great Patriotic War, created by the famous Soviet designer VG Grabin, ZIS-3, was released behind the factory gates. A month later, after successfully passing the factory tests, the ZIS-3 sample was presented to Marshal Kulik.

When creating a gun, all the features of staging a new gun in mass production were taken into account. Putting ZIS-3 into gross production would allow the plant to increase the production of divisional guns, instead of two guns ZIS-2 and F-22 USV, you can only produce one ZIS-3, the production of which will cost the plant three times cheaper, besides, the new gun is safer and more convenient to maintain. Grabin, the creator of the cannon, led all these arguments to Kulik, but nevertheless received a categorical "NO" of the marshal.

“You want a plant of an easy life, while blood is shed on the front. Your guns are not needed. Go back to the factory and make more guns that are in production. "

But Grabin, not wanting his brainchild of such an infamous fate, took a risky step and despite the evil response of Kulik, launched ZIS-3 into a semi-underground, mass production.

In the assembly shop, ZIS-2 was assembled without installing trunk tubes on them. The only significantly different detail was the muzzle brake, for conspiracy purposes it was manufactured in an experimental workshop. At night, a general assembly was carried out and in the morning ready-made guns were presented to a military acceptance team.

Officially, the ZIS-3 was adopted by the 12 in February of 1942. By that time, about a thousand ZIS-3 had successfully fought at the front. In total, a record number of ZIS-3 48 016 units were produced, more than any other gun for the whole history humanity.










But the Germans did not have an analogue of the ZIS-3, since they used the doctrine of the "trinity" invented by the French and aimed at a fleeting maneuvering war, they did not have any divisional guns.




Shooting from ZIS-3 solved the following tasks: destruction of bunkers (long-range firing points) and enemy barriers, destruction of manpower, artillery, tanks and other mechanized means of the enemy. When firing from the ZIS-3, it was possible to use various types of shells: a cumulative, high-explosive fragmentation grenade, a sub-caliber, armor-piercing, smoke, shrapnel, incendiary, which allowed for greater flexibility of fire. The firing range of a high-explosive fragmentation grenade was 13290 m. The direct range of the grenade and armor-piercing projectile was 820 meters. When the OF-350 ruptured, 870 slaughter fragments with a radius of damage of 15 m were formed. At a range of 500 m at an angle of 90 ° the armor-piercing projectile pierced 70 mm of armor.



ZIS-3 successfully fought with all German medium and light tanks and SPG. Also ZIS-3 easily coped with the "Panthers" from the 300 distance of meters, she could even cope with the "Tiger".

The ZIS-3 cannon, which the artillerymen loved, fulfilled its task and made a significant contribution to the cause of the Great Victory, bringing deserved glory to its creator, talented designer Vasily Gavrilovich Grabin.

ZIS-3 the same age as the Great Patriotic War
 
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  1. svp67
    svp67 April 20 2013 08: 06
    +4
    ZiS3 is the clearest example of a weapon of "mass war", when, for the sake of a "shaft", they reduce their combat properties. But it is also the best example of a good weapon that is in the hands of a soldier at the right time and in the right place .. ...
    1. Genady1976
      Genady1976 April 21 2013 19: 26
      0
      here is a photo
      did not stick
      1. Genady1976
        Genady1976 April 21 2013 19: 32
        0
        ZIS-3 gun that the gunners loved,
  2. Mikhado
    Mikhado April 20 2013 09: 30
    +3
    Also, the ZIS-3 easily coped with the Panthers from a distance of 300 meters, it could even cope with the Tiger.

    It would be nice to add that with the "Panther" it is more likely to board, and with the "Tiger" - if only sub-caliber ones. And the firing distance was just suicidal, so be careful with the word "easy".
    More than 20 years ago I first read the Grabin book "The Weapon of Victory", then there was little of that, much surprised, especially the history of adopting this gun.
    The design did not appear immediately, but brought to mind became a masterpiece, and the pace of a sharp increase in production looks like a miracle.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 20 2013 11: 31
      +5
      Quote: Mikhado
      It would be nice to add that with the "Panther" it is more likely to board, and with the "Tiger" - if only sub-caliber ones. And the firing distance was just suicidal, so be careful with the word "easy".

      Or the author is cunning, or plainly does not know the material.
      ZIS-3 - an excellent universal tool.
      And 45mm and 57mm anti-tank guns took the lot of the fight against tanks.
      And although the caliber 57mm is smaller than 76mm, the projectile leaving the barrel of the 57mm gun had MORE HIGH speed and energy after leaving the barrel.
      The peak of anti-tank artillery - 100mm guns that began to arrive at the front in 1944-m.
      It was the 100mm IPTAPs that managed to inflict the main damage to the PanzerWaffen near Balaton in March of the 1945.
      VG Grabin is a "gold nugget". It is difficult to overestimate his contribution to the Victory cause and to the development of Russian artillery. Next to him, you can safely put the no less talented A.I. Shavyrin. mortars which entered the legend along with the EIS-Z.
      1. Bigriver
        Bigriver April 20 2013 12: 01
        0
        Quote: stalkerwalker

        And the fate of the fight against tanks was given to 45mm and 57mm anti-tank guns ...

        1942-1944, in IPTAPs, divisions constituted the majority. In IPTABRs - significant.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker April 20 2013 12: 42
          +3
          Quote: BigRiver
          1942-1944, in IPTAPs, divisions constituted the majority. In IPTABRs - significant.

          The measure was compelled.
          57mm guns were missing.
          And the sapling was so mobile (light) and inconspicuous that it was not abandoned, and it was part of maybe not IPTAPs, but anti-tank batteries in cavalry corps until the end of the war.
          1. Bigriver
            Bigriver April 20 2013 13: 54
            +1
            Quote: stalkerwalker

            57mm guns were missing.
            And the sapling was so mobile (light) and inconspicuous that it was not abandoned, and it was part of maybe not IPTAPs, but anti-tank batteries in cavalry corps until the end of the war.

            The second ZIS-2 phenomenon occurred only in the offensive phase near Kursk. That is, at the end of July of the 43rd. Mass production was deployed by October 43rd.
            A 45-ka, until the end of the war, was part of separate fighter-combat divisions (12 pieces) of all infantry divisions, without exception.
            1. will you
              will you 27 May 2016 19: 12
              0
              magpie and not that goodbye Motherland, that was at the beginning of the war the barrel was extended and a hinge of gunpowder
    2. svp67
      svp67 April 21 2013 21: 34
      0
      Quote: Mikhado
      The design did not appear immediately, but brought to mind became a masterpiece, and the pace of a sharp increase in production looks like a miracle.


      A masterpiece, of which - gross production, then YES, but as an artillery system, then this gun was inferior in combat qualities to its predecessor Ф22УСВ
  3. avt
    avt April 20 2013 10: 04
    0
    Quote: Mikhado
    The design did not appear immediately, but brought to mind became a masterpiece, and the pace of a sharp increase in production looks like a miracle.

    Totally agree good
    Quote: Mikhado
    It would be nice to add that with the "Panther" it is more likely to board, and with the "Tiger" - if only sub-caliber ones. And the firing distance was just suicidal, so be careful with the word "easy".

    There is such a capricious moment, however, when they go to the other extreme, they do not take into account the moment that, in addition to the gun, in general, the corresponding projectile is needed. But with the armor-piercing ones, the unit was not very, to say the least.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 20 2013 11: 42
      +4
      Quote: avt
      But with the armor-piercing ones, the unit was not very, to say the least.

      The creation of cumulative ammunition required the creation of a practically new industry, which in war conditions was a very difficult task. Caliber shells did a very good job.
      The range of destruction of tanks on direct fire is from 800 m or less. But imagine a smoky battlefield, indented by ravines with "islands" of vegetation, where targets are constantly moving. The anti-tank crews had nerves of steel, so as not to betray themselves ahead of time and hit the target with 1-2 shots.
      hi
  4. omsbon
    omsbon April 20 2013 10: 10
    +1
    Quote: Mikhado
    More than 20 years ago I first read the Grabin book "The Weapon of Victory


    There is a wonderful series "The Weapon of Victory", it has a series dedicated to the ZIS-3. Who cares to see.
  5. kind
    kind April 20 2013 10: 53
    0
    At the beginning of 2000, we shot from them, the guns were 1944-56. release. Shells on the arsenals, a lot, because they were unified with a tank gun and self-propelled guns SU-85. Actually, this is a large sniper rifle, simple and very reliable !!!
    1. Rjn
      Rjn April 20 2013 22: 42
      0
      It looks like you shot from an 85 mm anti-tank gun (there were such), because the caliber is different.
      1. kind
        kind April 22 2013 00: 07
        +1
        YES, you are right, but I was mistaken, we shot from the D-44. Everything is correct, ZISKA - 76 mm.
  6. RoadRunner
    RoadRunner April 20 2013 11: 13
    0
    Officially, the ZIS-3 was adopted on February 12, 1942. By that time, about a thousand ZIS-3 had successfully fought at the front.

    It turned out interestingly ...
  7. xan
    xan April 20 2013 11: 18
    0
    on the site "I remember" I read the memoirs of the PTAP. He fought the entire war with the ZIS-3. What they just did not do and what tricks they didn’t go to in order to let the German come closer and put him on board, and all this through blood, was not always possible. Once at the end of the war I saw BS-3 in the case. A team passing by was asked to soak a German tank, which was standing 2 km from their position and constantly disturbing them. They fired one shot from BS-3, assembled the gun and drove off. They could not understand whether the tank was hit or not, but the tank did not fire any more and remained there. The soldiers were very sorry that they had to fight with the ZIS-3, and not with the BS-3, how many dead would have been alive.
    maybe if less of the cowards jumped out using ZIS-3, faster would BS-3 be launched.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 20 2013 12: 47
      +4
      Quote: xan
      maybe if less of the cowards jumped out using ZIS-3, faster would BS-3 be launched.

      BS-3, 100mm gun. When it entered service - it is written above.
      The ZIS-3 is a "workhorse" so successful that the Germans did not disdain to use it on self-propelled guns "Marder-2".
      1. datur
        datur April 20 2013 19: 33
        +1
        The ZIS-3 is a "workhorse; so successful that the Germans did not disdain to use it on self-propelled guns; Marder-2. That's for sure, as well as the ZIS-2 until the end of the war, well of them on the western front, allied tanks clapped !!!" ! yes
        1. Yemelya
          Yemelya April 21 2013 11: 48
          0
          On the "Marder-2", in fact, the converted F-22 (PaK-36 (r)) was installed. The Romanians used the ZiS-3 on their R-2-based self-propelled guns (or tried - whether they were mass-produced, I don't remember).
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker April 21 2013 14: 34
            +3
            Quote: Emelya
            On "Marder-2"

            The design has always been one. They modernized and changed the names.
            1. Yemelya
              Yemelya April 21 2013 19: 55
              -1
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              The design has always been one. Upgraded and changed names


              I do not understand what they upgraded?
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker April 21 2013 22: 20
                +3
                Quote: Emelya
                I do not understand what they upgraded?

                I explain.
                F-22, F-22 SPM and ZiS-3 are native sisters.
                F-22 was created at the request of the customer as universal - for firing at ground and air targets. Therefore, it had spaced apart on the sides of the handle of aiming vertically and horizontally.
                F-22 SPM - a slightly simplified version - abandoned the high aiming angle vertically.
                ZiS-3 - the most optimal option for technology, at a price.
                Replacement / change on the gun carriage, wheels, armor plate - cosmetics.
                Or we will consider the T-34 and T34-85 different tanks.
                The genius of V.G.Grabin was that he could create artillery masterpieces "without breaking the structure" as a whole, on a single base, on those production areas.
                1. Kars
                  Kars April 21 2013 22: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  I explain.
                  F-22, F-22 SPM and ZiS-3 are native sisters.


                  Only here the Germans SPM redid for themselves, and this is when it is mentioned PT SAU Marder.
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker April 21 2013 23: 21
                    +3
                    Quote: Kars
                    Fri SAU Marder.

                    Yes.
                    And they moved the aiming handles to one side.
                2. Yemelya
                  Yemelya April 22 2013 19: 44
                  0
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  F-22, F-22 SPM and ZiS-3 are native sisters.

                  As for the F-22 USV and ZiS-3 - we can agree (and even with a stretch, referring to the ZiS-22).
                  As for the F-22, the F-22 SPM in relation to it was in many ways a new model, which has a similar name only for aversion of eyes, which is repeatedly mentioned in the literature devoted to this topic.
      2. xan
        xan April 20 2013 19: 53
        0
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        The ZIS-3 is a "workhorse" so successful that the Germans did not disdain to use it on self-propelled guns "Marder-2".

        ZIS-3 worked without problems throughout our armored vehicles, except for the ISs, but with the Panthers and Tigers there are few chances to knock out, and there is practically no chance to survive after non-defeat.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 April 20 2013 13: 07
      +7
      BS-3 is much heavier, you can’t roll it on your hands. And it is obviously many times more difficult to manufacture. ZiS-2, in principle, 100 penetrated without problems, but there the barrel is very difficult to manufacture, so there wasn’t enough of them throughout the war. For those who are directly involved in the battle, there is always not enough firepower, but often the country simply can’t give them anything better.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker April 20 2013 13: 53
        +4
        Quote: Avenger711
        however, often a country simply cannot give them anything better.

        Yeah...
        It seems Mellentin called the history of anti-tank artillery of the Wehrmacht the saddest page in the fight against Russian tanks.
        In the final, they received a gun with good armor penetration from the German industry 75mm. But after 2-3 shots of the bipod of the beds, bogged down in the soil, it was possible to pull out only with a tractor.
    3. Bigriver
      Bigriver April 20 2013 14: 59
      +1
      Quote: xan
      ... maybe if less of the cowards jumped out, using ZIS-3, they would faster launch BS-3.

      Before the war, we had a similar weapon - the M-60 (107 mm).
      But, like BS, it was too heavy, expensive, difficult to manufacture and operate for widespread production and widespread use.
      If you put the question like this: 1 piece of BS-3 or 5 pieces of ZIS-3? The answer for the Red Army for 1941-43 is obvious - the second. Because, really, there was not enough universal divisional artillery.
      And we are talking about body guns! Which, among other things, need special means of traction. With a "three-thin" ZIS-5, you won't drag it across the intersection.
      Therefore, the amount of jumping out of cowards makes little difference in a poor country with a young defense industry.
      1. avt
        avt April 20 2013 15: 40
        0
        Quote: BigRiver
        Before the war, we had a similar weapon - the M-60 (107 mm).
        But, like BS, it was too heavy, expensive, difficult to manufacture and operate for widespread production and widespread use.

        In addition, ammunition of this caliber was discontinued also before the war. Although the KV-1 with such a cannon of this caliber has even been tested in the newsreel.
        1. Bigriver
          Bigriver April 20 2013 16: 18
          +1
          Quote: avt
          In addition, ammunition of this caliber was discontinued also before the war.

          The most important question: where and for what? winked
          At the divisional level - too powerful, dragging along a bunch of unsolvable questions about use, and absolutely not realistic in terms of saturating all diabetes. Just plants would not have pulled such volumes. We ZIS-2 (57 mm) were not able to stick in all divisions, only in the guard.
          In IPTAP, M-60, by the way, was used in the Battle of Kursk. Either in one, or in two regiments.
          Corps reinforcements in tank armies - that’s it. There BS-3 and registered.
          To the division would be something similar to the D-44. Yeah yeah repeat
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 April 20 2013 19: 27
            0
            The most important question: where and for what?

            especially BS-3 type in 41-42))) there would be extra series of captured photos
            taking into account the fact that regular means provided all the possibilities, but with one but the presence of appropriate shells.
            1. xan
              xan April 20 2013 19: 47
              0
              Quote: Stas57
              especially BS-3 type in 41-42))) there would be extra series of captured photos

              as soon as the first Tiger was snubbed near Volkhov in the winter of the 43rd - immediately it was necessary to seriously take on the BS-3, so that in the whole war not 400 pieces were produced, but at least in the winter of the 44th, 1-2 thousand were in the troops. Problems with anti-tank defense would disappear immediately. And the SU-100 would have been done earlier - problems with the German anti-tank defense would have disappeared to a large extent.
              1. avt
                avt April 20 2013 20: 42
                +1
                Quote: xan
                as soon as the first Tiger was snubbed near Volkhov in the winter of the 43rd - immediately it was necessary to seriously take on the BS-3, so that in the whole war not 400 pieces were produced, but at least in the winter of the 44th, 1-2 thousand were in the troops. Problems with anti-tank defense would disappear immediately. And the SU-100 would have been done earlier - problems with the German anti-tank defense would have disappeared to a large extent.

                But do not tell me where the Germans were in the winter of the 43rd except Volkhov? And at the same time tell me what happened with industry, well, at least since the 42nd winter? Skip the 41st.
                1. Bigriver
                  Bigriver April 21 2013 07: 31
                  +3
                  Quote: avt
                  But do not tell me where the Germans were in the winter of the 43rd except Volkhov? And at the same time tell mewhat happened to industry , well, at least since the winter of 42nd? Skip the 41st.

                  That's it!
                  We often, are so smart from the afterlife: // And we think that somewhere we overlooked, did something at the wrong time ... And the resources and opportunities in the USSR — they were bottomless. The main cry to quit.
                  ZIS-2 and BS-3 in 1941-42 - it is almost a piece of high-tech for the defense of the USSR.
                  And thus, it was necessary to choose: either a weapon of total war, or highly effective systems for a limited contingent?

                  By the way, many may not like this. But, for the mass production of ZIS-2, we imported imported equipment for art plants in the summer of 1943.
        2. Yemelya
          Yemelya April 21 2013 11: 53
          +1
          Quote: avt
          Although the KV-1 test with such a gun of this caliber is even in the newsreel.

          ZiS-6 will not fit into the KV-1 tower, it was tested on the KV-2 (I met information that they were even going to release it in this form - to counter German super tanks).
          1. avt
            avt April 21 2013 13: 31
            0
            Quote: Emelya
            ZiS-6 will not fit into the KV-1 tower, it was tested on the KV-2 (I met information that they were even going to release it in this form - to counter German super tanks).

            You are right, really the only sample was tested in the KV-2 tower hi They didn’t make a tower for the KV-3 car under the gun, they drove the chassis with cargo.
            1. Kars
              Kars April 21 2013 20: 56
              0
              Something a tool for 152 mm thin.
              1. Yemelya
                Yemelya April 21 2013 21: 16
                0
                If you look closely (at the muzzle), you can see that just the sun shines.
                1. Kars
                  Kars April 21 2013 21: 19
                  0
                  Well maybe even
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 April 21 2013 21: 27
                    0
                    Huge boules. I apologize for getting in your conversation, I just found a photo of the damaged KV-2 trunk. Surprised, almost sniper hit
                    1. Kars
                      Kars April 21 2013 21: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: svp67
                      I'm sorry that

                      Yes, please, what questions may be
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 April 21 2013 21: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Yes, please, what questions may be

                        Thank. I wonder why he was so holed up? The projectile is clearly not a cop. Apparently 37-mm PTP
                      2. Garrin
                        Garrin April 21 2013 21: 47
                        0
                        Quote: svp67
                        I wonder why he was so holed up? The projectile is clearly not a COP, and with a caliber of not more than 20 mm

                        Do you suppose that from PTR and that this tank was not a German trophy?
                      3. svp67
                        svp67 April 21 2013 21: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Garrin
                        Do you suppose that from PTR and that this tank was not a German trophy?

                        Well, if only the PTR caliber is not less than 20-mm. The trunk diameter is about 170-mm, and the hole is somewhere 1 \ 4-1 \ 3 projection. And if you look closely at the photo of the entire tank, then dents of a similar diameter are clearly visible in the lower left part. And the fact that this is a trophy, as German soldiers still roam it, if not a trophy
                    2. Kars
                      Kars April 21 2013 21: 55
                      0
                      A difficult question, most likely 37 mm, but maybe 50 mm
                    3. svp67
                      svp67 April 21 2013 22: 03
                      0
                      Quote: Kars
                      A difficult question, most likely 37 mm, but maybe 50 mm

                      Strongly this tank got and it may well be that 50mm, the photo shows not only dents, but also holes, and 37mm I don’t think it could
                    4. Kars
                      Kars April 21 2013 22: 18
                      0
                      Of course, the question is complicated, it is impossible to exclude shelling by several systems. How can you not exclude training shooting, since the annotation says that the tank is abandoned and not destroyed request

                      Quote: Emelya

                      Please note that I can’t go to the forum, so don’t wait for an answer, although you can re-post the question in articles about the tiger
                    5. Yemelya
                      Yemelya April 22 2013 19: 39
                      0
                      Quote: Kars
                      I can’t go to the forum

                      Wow, as happens smile
                    6. Kars
                      Kars April 24 2013 20: 33
                      0
                      Quote: Emelya
                      hell, as it happens

                      It happens, but I think I taught you fine, but if you know what you are turning to
                      http://topwar.ru/15058-a-byl-li-tigr-korolevskim.html
  • wecher75
    wecher75 April 26 2013 02: 22
    0
    Each weapon has its own time and purpose. And for this we need competent commanders and tactics
  • morning
    morning April 20 2013 12: 38
    +2
    The ZIS-3 cannon is listed in the Guinness Book of Records, the only product in the world, during the production of which, labor productivity has grown 1000 times too much! Sometimes the quantity goes into quality, during the war years, the production of these guns stopped once, it was simply not necessary anymore, then they were resumed.
  • Canep
    Canep April 20 2013 14: 06
    +2
    Grabin is a great designer. ZIS-3 when I served (95-97) was in service in training units, and most likely until then the verse is used. 70 years in service, not every type of weapon can boast of such experience.
  • Rjn
    Rjn April 20 2013 22: 39
    +1
    Quote: stalkerwalker
    But after 2-3 shots of the bipod of the beds, bogged down in the soil, it was possible to pull out only with a tractor.

    I think that refers to the 88 mm RaK-43.
    1. Kars
      Kars April 20 2013 22: 45
      +1
      Quote: RJN
      I think that refers to the 88 mm RaK-43.

      Well Mukhin / Shirokorad in their books attributed this and PAK-40
  • na76
    na76 April 20 2013 22: 51
    0
    Quote: xan
    as soon as the first Tiger was snubbed near Volkhov in the winter of the 43rd - immediately it was necessary to seriously take on the BS-3, so that in the whole war not 400 pieces were produced, but at least in the winter of the 44th, 1-2 thousand were in the troops. Problems with anti-tank defense would disappear immediately. And the SU-100 would have been done earlier - problems with the German anti-tank defense would have disappeared to a large extent.


    1) They are problems not so much with barrels as with shells, we are more cunning when they say that the ZIS-2 was discontinued in 1942 due to excessive armor penetration, there were more problems with the lack of ammunition, with BS-3 it would be same thing.
    2) More, it doesn’t mean better in all respects, the Germans took part in World War II with a 2 mm main howitzer, probably not from their own stupidity, different guns solve different problems, according to them they choose a caliber, gun mass, firing range, etc. ., although what is there to do educational program ...
    3) And in the reality of the Second World War, the ZIS-2 was a more preferable mass anti-tank gun than the BS-3
    4) ZIS-3 is certainly a universal weapon, in terms of efficiency it would probably be preferable to have a duplex 57-mm PTR + 105 mm howitzer on partially unified gun mounts (though then 105 mm cumulative weapons in large quantities are needed, which is for the realities of the USSR from 41-45 almost fantastic)
    1. Setrac
      Setrac April 20 2013 23: 47
      0
      Fighting tanks is not the main task of artillery.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker April 21 2013 23: 36
        +3
        Quote: Setrac
        Fighting tanks is not the main task of artillery.

        Oddly enough, anti-tank artillery was the most effective way of fighting tanks at that time.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac April 21 2013 23: 44
          +1
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Oddly enough, anti-tank artillery was the most effective way of fighting tanks at that time.

          My words do not contradict yours.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker April 22 2013 00: 03
            +3
            Quote: Setrac
            My words do not contradict yours.

            So am I ...
            hi
    2. Bigriver
      Bigriver April 21 2013 12: 26
      +1
      Quote: nae76

      1) They are problems not so much with barrels as with shells, we are more cunning when they say that the ZIS-2 was discontinued in 1942 due to excessive armor penetration, there were more problems with the lack of ammunition, ..

      The main thing is that at the end of 1941 and 1942, the Red Army badly lacked any artillery, except for the large and special power of the RGK.
      The issue of ZIS-2 could only be realized by reducing the production of ZIS-3. Moreover, in smaller quantities and with OFS two times weaker than that of the division.
      Question: why do this? If the division is able to solve a wider range of tasks and is able to deal with all types of armored vehicles?
      Are we saboteurs in our country?
  • na76
    na76 April 20 2013 23: 17
    -1
    Sorry VET and not PTR, of course, I got into the wrong key
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 April 20 2013 23: 29
    0
    this T-34 gun in artillery
  • valiant
    valiant April 21 2013 13: 46
    +1
    The first prototype of the 76-mm division gun ZIS-3
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 April 21 2013 19: 33
    0
    Here is a photo
  • Apollo
    Apollo April 21 2013 22: 35
    0
    Weapon of victory. Division gun ZIS 3.

  • Krios
    Krios April 22 2013 11: 54
    0
    The ZIS 2 cannon was created on the basis of the elements of the F22 and F22usv guns, while the gun’s shutter was taken unchanged and therefore the cartridge caliber was 76 mm and the projectile caliber 57 mm. When developing the ZIS 3 gun, Grabin took the carriage and the ZIS 2 gun shutter was minimally modified and put the F2usv gun barrel on the ZIS 22 carriage and the ZIS 3 turned out. And I want to say that the ZIS 3 is not an anti-tank gun, but an infantry one and the whole charm of this gun was in low weight for a 76 mm caliber. The fact is that if the gun stays in one place for a long time, the enemy will quickly detect and destroy it, and therefore, the calculation must change position after a certain time, and you can’t pull the heavy gun too much. And on the account of BS 3, the gun is good but very heavy, and now imagine that I felt the calculation of BS 3 after hearing the command tanks from the rear.
  • Bigriver
    Bigriver April 22 2013 17: 14
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    Quote: valiant
    The first prototype of the 76-mm division gun ZIS-3

    The prototype must have box antiquities.
  • valiant
    valiant April 22 2013 17: 51
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    Quote: BigRiver
    The prototype must have box antiquities.

    Yes, the frames are round and the muzzle brake is different. But it was in this form that the ZIS-3 went into production. Later, the groundwork was used on the ZIS-2 carriages with "square" riveted beds, and then the muzzle brake was replaced. Photo from the archive of TsAMO RF, fund 81, inventory 12104, file no. 147, p. 230
  • Langeo
    Langeo April 22 2013 19: 26
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    ZiS-3 in Volgograd in the panorama museum.

  • stasdolgov
    stasdolgov 9 May 2013 20: 24
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    In one of the underwater expeditions of our club Neptune-Pro / EPRON (in 2000), in the Kerch Strait, we found a cannon ZIS-2 at the bottom (3 km from the coast).
    http://www.neptun-pro.ru/e_4.htm
    She was carried on pontoons during the Kerch-Eltigen landing and was blown up on a sea mine.

    We picked it up and handed it over to the local history department of the Anapa Archaeological Museum. There she stands to the entrance to this day.
  • stasdolgov
    stasdolgov 12 September 2013 01: 51
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    The Neptune-Pro Club (EPRON) launched an interactive map for sunken ships http://www.neptun-pro.ru/Objekty.html. Over 1500 objects have been applied. The description indicates the date and circumstances of the death of the vessel. The purpose of the interactive map is to maximize the picture of the location of objects at the bottom.