Military Review

Ukraine and Russia will jointly upgrade helicopters

137
By preliminary agreement, Motor Sich will supply TV3-117VMA-SBM1V engines, and Russian Helicopters will carry out their installation.



Ukraine and Russia will jointly upgrade helicoptersMotor Sich and Russian Helicopters will jointly modernize Mi-8 helicopters, Vyacheslav Boguslaev, the main shareholder of Motor Sich, promised at HeliRussia 2013. “Representatives of Russian Helicopters announced that they are ready to cooperate with us regarding the modernization of the Mi-8,” he said.

Anatoly Malysh, head of the Supervisory Board of Motor Sich, says that negotiations are currently underway between the companies. “If we finally sign an agreement, our company will supply Russia with TV3-117VMA-SBM1V engines, and Russian Helicopters will carry out their installation,” Anatoly Malysh noted.

Vladimir Semyonov, Director for Corporate Relations of Motor Sich, clarified that the matter concerns the modernization of Mi-8T helicopters, for which the company will supply the TB3-117BMA-SBM1B engine of the 4E series. “Around the world, it is necessary to replace engines on three thousand helicopters. We expect at least 300-400 engines to be supplied to the Russian market, where, according to our estimates, there is a need for modernization. "

According to him, the cost of the TB3-117BMA-SBM1B engine of the 4E series is $ 800. Thus, the estimated cost of the contract with Russian Helicopters could be $ 240-320 million.

The press service of Russian Helicopters noted that the Ukrainian company remains an important partner for them, but they have not yet commented on Boguslaev's statements.

Motor Sich plans to reach an annual turnover of $ 2013 billion in monetary disappearance in 1. At the end of last year, the company's turnover will amount to $ 820-840 million. In 2013, it is planned to increase it by 14-16%.

The production program is being carried out according to plan, but much will depend on the implementation of the program for the production of An-140 aircraft, repair of An-2 aircraft, as well as within the framework of securing contracts for the supply of engines for the L-15 multipurpose combat training aircraft manufactured in China the Motor Sich engines are installed.

In 2012, the company acquired a controlling stake in the Orsha aircraft plant (Vitebsk region, Belarus) in addition to the existing production sites (Vinnitsa aircraft repair plant and Aviakon) as part of the strategy for the development of the direction of repair and modernization of the CIS helicopter fleet.

The TB3-117BMA-SBM1B 4E engine is designed for installation on Mi-8T helicopters. It maintains power up to higher ambient temperatures, basing altitudes and flight heights, compared to the existing TV2-117 helicopter engines. The 2,5-minute power mode ensures safe takeoff and landing of the helicopter with one engine inoperative. Cruising power is 1 liters. from.

Main advantages:

-high reliability;
-increased power, which is maintained at high outdoor temperatures and in high mountains;
- low specific fuel consumption;
-big resource;
- ease of maintenance in operation;
-high maintainability;
-sustainable work in conditions of high dust and smoke;
-low life cycle cost.

Based on materials MOTOR SICH JSC и ЛІГАБізнесІнформ.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 26 May 2013 06: 48
    11
    Ukraine and Russia will jointly upgrade helicopters.
    Maybe this is economically and profitable, but I think that there is already a need for the appearance and most importantly the development of the production of helicopter engines in Russia ...
    Russian defenders seem to have solved the problem of the dependence of the Russian helicopter industry on Ukrainian engines. According to Vladislav Masalov, Director General of the United Engine Company (UEC), to Izvestia, by the 2015 year, Russian manufacturers will completely displace the Ukrainian Motor Sich plant, having set up production of 600 engines a year in St. Petersburg - that’s just enough to fully cover the needs Russian Helicopters. "
    1. wlad59
      wlad59 26 May 2013 08: 52
      +2
      What engines are going to produce at the plant under construction in St. Petersburg? VK-2500 ((which is 30 years old ...
      1. svp67
        svp67 26 May 2013 08: 59
        +5
        Quote: wlad59
        What engines are going to produce at the plant under construction in St. Petersburg? VK-2500 ((which is 30 years old ...


        Well, TVZ-117 is already more than 40 and nothing, in Zaporozhye it is produced and sold
        The TV3-117 turboshaft engine was developed in 1972 for the power plants of the Mi-24 and Mi-14 helicopters. The engine is installed on 95% of the helicopters designed by the Mil Design Bureau and the Kamov Design Bureau. The power plants of these helicopters (except for the Mi-28) include the main gearboxes (VR-14, VR-24, VR-252, VR-80), developed at JSC Klimov.


        FACTS
        VK-2500
        Designed in 2001 year
        Power Class - 2500 HP
        It is installed on modifications of Mi-17, Ka-32 helicopters, as well as on the latest combat Mi-28, Ka-52, Mi-35 helicopters.
        VK-2500 engines as part of the power plant of the Mi-17-B5 helicopter were tested in the mountains of Tibet.
        Engine life can reach 9000 hours
        Ideal for replacing TV3-117 engines in an existing fleet of helicopters.
        1. wlad59
          wlad59 26 May 2013 09: 11
          -10 qualifying.
          Do not confuse God's gift with scrambled eggs: the Zaporizhzhya engine is not yet another improving modernization of the well-deserved helicopter engine TV3-117. New product Motor Sich - modernization of the aircraft TV3-117ВМА-СБМ1 (En-140)
          1. svp67
            svp67 26 May 2013 09: 17
            +8
            Quote: wlad59
            Do not confuse God's gift with scrambled eggs: the Zaporizhzhya engine is not yet another improving modernization of the well-deserved helicopter engine TV3-117. New product Motor Sich - modernization of the aircraft TV3-117ВМА-СБМ1 (En-140)


            Yes....
            Based on the need to reduce the time and cost of designing, fine-tuning and mastering serial production, the TV3-117ВМА-СБМ1 engine was developed on the basis of the TV3-117ВМА turbo-compressor of a gas turbine engine developed by NPP Zavod im. V. Ya. Klimova ”and serially produced by Motor Sich OJSC using the AI-24 engine gearbox created by Ivchenko-Progress GP and also produced by Motor Sich OJSC. The design of the engine, the level of thermodynamic parameters provide the possibility of its operation in hot climates and highlands. Certified

            Well, WHERE is GOD'S GIFT here, and WHERE - Fried eggs ...?
            The engine for An140 was developed on the basis of a helicopter engine, with the replacement of the gearbox, and already on the basis of it the helicopter engine was developed again ...
            The same EGGS, only the view WITH THE SIDE ...
            1. wlad59
              wlad59 26 May 2013 09: 28
              -2
              You can argue for a long time .. about anything. Here is a quote from E.A. Gritsenko, gen. designer of Vladimir Klimov - Motor Sich Engines CJSC: "... Evgeny Gritsenko does not consider the new Zaporizhzhya engine to be a competitor to the Russian VK-2500. According to Evgeny Alexandrovich, let the customer, the Russian Air Force, figure out which of the products should be used on various helicopters In addition, the new Zaporozhye engine is not yet another improvement of the honored TV3-117 helicopter engine. The new product of Motor Sich OJSC is the modernization of the aircraft TV3-117VMA-SBM1, which is now installed on the An-140. Over several years of flight operation in various In contrast to all the previously modernized TV3-117 engines, this new development of the Zaporozhye design bureau "Progress" uses a more reliable and economical compressor and its turbine, power turbine and other units. " - As I understand it, the Russian Air Force has already made its choice (regarding MI-8)!
              1. svp67
                svp67 26 May 2013 09: 35
                +6
                Quote: wlad59
                in this new development of the Zaporozhye design bureau "Progress" more reliable and economical compressor and its turbine, power turbine and other units are used. "

                "Each" Kulik ", especially in need of money, praises his swamp"
                And I have no doubt in the high quality of Zaporizhzhya engines, I have a doubt as to whether your government will be linked to the solution of any political problems by the government, as a result of which the contract will not be fulfilled ...
                1. wlad59
                  wlad59 26 May 2013 09: 43
                  +2
                  And where does the government of Ukraine ??? Motor Sich is a PRIVATE company. ((especially since the government’s policy, in connection with the large negative trade balance, is precisely aimed at supporting exporters.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 26 May 2013 09: 48
                    +5
                    Quote: wlad59
                    And where does the government of Ukraine ??? Motor Sich is a PRIVATE company. ((especially since the government’s policy, in connection with the large negative trade balance, is precisely aimed at supporting exporters.

                    Well then, where is the AN70 PAID by our country, on which the Motor-Sich engine is also installed?
                    1. wlad59
                      wlad59 26 May 2013 09: 57
                      +2
                      Probably ORT did not show this plot: Back in April of this year, the An-70 (painted in the colors of the Russian Air Force - does this fact tell you something ???) made test flights at the factory airfield in Kiev! look at the site: http://bmpd.livejournal.com/496686.html
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 26 May 2013 10: 12
                        0
                        Quote: wlad59
                        Probably ORT this plot did not show: Back in the month of April this year, An-70 (painted in the colors of the Russian Air Force - does this fact tell you something ???)

                        Well why
                        On April 9, 2013, the first flight of the second (and the only available) prototype of the An-70 military transport aircraft (serial number 01-02, Ukrainian registration UR-NTK) took place at the Kiev airfield Svyatoshino of the Antonov serial plant. PAINTING it at the Antonov Serial Plant in a dark gray monochromatic color corresponding to the current Russian Air Force standard.


                        The main complaints about the joint project with "Antonov" are the failure of all agreed measures, including the so-called static tests, when the finished aircraft is put on the stand and all elements and components are checked for stability.
                        Official papers with claims to the quality of An-70 will be sent before the end of February


                        So there was an OVERCOLORED answer, especially since this prototype OWNS the Russian Air Force, but the PLANE itself is still missing, since the Ukrainian side has once again cut off funding, but persistent rumors are beginning to circulate !!! "they are cooperating with China and very soon a similar plane may appear there ... As it all does not add optimism ...
                      2. wlad59
                        wlad59 26 May 2013 10: 21
                        +3
                        I understand that the fact of painting the AN-70 in the colors of the Russian Air Force does not mean anything to you! I explain: the plane released from the factory is painted in the colors of the CUSTOMER. Those. Antonovtsy painted the plane not from fucking to do, but because it is a world practice! This aircraft is USED by the Russian Air Force. And this is no longer a test, since the plane is repainted, then there are NO complaints.
                      3. svp67
                        svp67 26 May 2013 10: 29
                        0
                        Quote: wlad59
                        This aircraft is USED by the Russian Air Force. And this is no longer a test, since the plane is repainted, then there are NO complaints.

                        Once again - this instance of the experimental aircraft KUPLEN of the Russian Air Force belongs to them, so I don’t see ANYTHING strange in repainting it ...
                        at the end of 2010, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine announced the termination of funding for the project due to the fact that it is not a priority for the ministry. Nevertheless, in 2011, the Russian Ministry of Defense acquired the first An-70, which is being built at the Antonov. The contract was signed in order for the company to receive funds for the construction of another transport company.

                        Where are the other planes, where is the fulfillment of the agreements?
                      4. Akim
                        Akim 26 May 2013 12: 27
                        +4
                        Quote: svp67
                        Once again - this instance of the experimental aircraft KUPLEN of the Russian Air Force and belongs to them,

                        The Russian Air Force bought a plane with tail number 01-03. ( on right).
                      5. svp67
                        svp67 26 May 2013 12: 43
                        +2
                        Quote: Akim
                        The Russian Air Force bought a plane with tail number 01-03. ( on right)
                        Then it’s still SAD ... not money from an EXPERIENCED plane ...
                      6. Akim
                        Akim 26 May 2013 14: 07
                        +6
                        Quote: svp67
                        no money not an EXPERIENCED aircraft.

                        Sense of getting experienced? Russia will receive a serial aircraft.
                        PS These photos from six months. Aircraft are already on bench tests.
                2. Akim
                  Akim 26 May 2013 12: 24
                  +6
                  Quote: wlad59
                  I understand that the fact of painting the AN-70 in the colors of the Russian Air Force does not mean anything to you!


                  These are not the colors of the Russian Air Force. This is a dark olive color - the new color of the Ukrainian Air Force BTA. Now one IL-76 with overhaul comes out, with the same skin.
                3. svp67
                  svp67 26 May 2013 12: 29
                  +4
                  Quote: Akim
                  This is a dark olive color - the new color of the Ukrainian Air Force BTA

                  It remains to compare:



                4. Akim
                  Akim 26 May 2013 12: 48
                  +2
                  Quote: svp67
                  It remains to compare:

                  Russia has a smoky gray.
                5. astra
                  astra 26 May 2013 14: 00
                  +6
                  Until Ukraine turns its back on the EU and joins the CU, politics will always get in the way and interfere with cooperation between Ukraine and Russia, including military-technical.
                6. papamahno
                  papamahno 26 May 2013 20: 09
                  -4
                  Quote: astra
                  Until Ukraine turns its back on the EU and joins the CU, politics will always get in the way and interfere with cooperation between Ukraine and Russia, including military-technical.

                  As this May shows, the more Ukraine is closer to the EU, the more adequate is the Russian Federation. What we now see by engines, An-124 and 70, space.
                  What is it worth that the Russian Federation asked Ukraine to build a Russian space center Vostochny.
    2. Ivanovich47
      Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 27
      -3
      I repeat; offer your airplane to the European Union. You rush there. We don’t need yours
  2. The comment was deleted.
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 26 May 2013 12: 49
    +4
    wlad59! I do not agree with you. In the case of cooling relations, a private company can be forced to abandon many obligations. Now no one bothers to supply engines and components to the Russian Federation, but what will happen if ultra-right radicals come to power?
    1. wlad59
      wlad59 26 May 2013 18: 00
      +3
      "Now no one interferes with the supply of engines and components to the Russian Federation, but what will happen if ultra-right radicals come to power? ..."
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 25
    -1
    Lord, leave Russia alone. Offer your motors to the European Union.
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 26 May 2013 12: 47
    +5
    It is a pity that such engines are not assembled here. And about "I have a doubt whether the problem of supplying these engines will be linked by your government to the solution of any political problems, as a result of which the contract will not be fulfilled ..." It doesn’t scare me anymore - remember whose air defense systems were hit Air Force during the Five Day War? There is a risk that when engines and other components we urgently need, fraternal Ukraine will not supply them.
    1. Jurkovs
      Jurkovs 27 May 2013 07: 13
      0
      Engines for military helicopters have not been discussed for a long time, Russia began to produce them herself. We are talking about a huge fleet of civilian vehicles sold around the world and in need of an engine replacement. We ourselves are not pulling, and not replacing engines means missing out on the market.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 24
    0
    Quote:will your government be linked to the solution of any political problems, as a result of which the contract will not be fulfilled ... Yes, they will say: cut gas prices!
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 22
    -1
    Russia should not trust the construction of its helicopter fleet, an unfriendly country, Ukraine
  • Makarov
    Makarov 26 May 2013 11: 57
    0
    [/ quote] ...
    The engine for An140 was developed on the basis of a helicopter engine, with the replacement of the gearbox, and already on the basis of it the helicopter engine was developed again ...
    The same EGGS, only the view WITH SIDE ... [/ quote]

    Absolutely, damn it to the point)
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 27 May 2013 07: 04
    -1
    Quote: svp67
    the TV3-117VMA-SBM1 engine is developed on the basis of the turbocompressor of the TV3-117VMA helicopter gas turbine engine developed by NPP Zavod im. V. Ya. Klimova ”and serially produced by OJSC“ Motor Sich ”


    Question. The rightholder of the TV3-117VMA engine is NPP "Klimov Plant"?
    Does Motor Sich release it under a license?
    1. in reserve
      in reserve 28 May 2013 17: 54
      0
      A little wrong, this engine in the USSR was developed by the Klimov design bureau and the Progress ZMKB which is located in Ukraine
  • stranik72
    stranik72 26 May 2013 11: 37
    +6
    Everything is right, for the PR Company, but for specialists, it’s the same engine, they changed the material of the compressor blades and turbines, slightly modified the free turbine, including changing the manufacturing technology of the main parts and that's it. The ideology, lineup, appearance, dimension and much more remained the same. But all the same, well done, for now, as usual, we measure penises on Klimov and saw loot people work. If there were no Mil Design Bureau, there would be no helicopters in Russia, if there were no Boguslaev, there would be no Mil and Klimov Design Bureau. Now Russian Helicopters are destroying the Mil Design Bureau, while Kamov is holding onto Mikheev’s expense. If it weren’t for Boguslaev, it would not have been possible for us to show anything serious to the helicopter world. IHMO
  • Makarov
    Makarov 26 May 2013 11: 55
    0
    Don’t write, please, more than such nonsense ... TV3-117 roughly speaking the basic model, all kinds of VMA and modifications there are anyway improvements or adaptations of the basic model, which is 40 years old, and drew for the An-140 ... design failure, in In any case, students, for example, airborne gear (which is from Motor Sich) consider SBM1 as an example of what does not need to be done, and what was advanced in it 40 years ago ...
    1. papamahno
      papamahno 26 May 2013 20: 11
      -2
      SBM1V is unique not only for 117B, but for the World. There are no analogues to Ukrainian.

      The Mi-17 helicopter equipped with new engines manufactured by Motor Sich (Zaporozhye, Ukraine) on May 16, 2013 made a unique flight across the Andes to Peru. It climbed to a height of more than 6300 meters, Vyacheslav Boguslaev, President of Motor Sich JSC, told reporters, Interfax reports.

      "Yesterday, a Mi-17 helicopter with our new engines flew over the Andes to Peru, having risen to a height of 6 meters with a load. Not a single helicopter has ever flown there," Boguslaev said on Friday at an exhibition of the helicopter industry in Moscow.

      He noted that the Peruvian pilots conducted an experiment, organizing a flight on two helicopters. One of the Mi-17 helicopters was equipped with old engines, and the second - with new Motor Sich TV3-117 VMA-SBM1V engines.

      According to Boguslaev, a helicopter equipped with old engines, rising to a height of 6 km, was unable to continue the flight and returned to the take-off airfield. A helicopter with new engines landed on the other side of the Andes.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 19
    0
    I am sure that in the near future Russia will build its engines
  • VAF
    VAF 26 May 2013 14: 04
    +6
    Quote: svp67
    The turbojet engine TV3-117 was developed in 1972.


    Not designed. but it is produced only on MOTOR SICH, this time!

    Secondly, VK-2500 is the same TV3-117VMA-SB3, so what about ... " fellow "we developed" it is from the series "russia is getting up from its knees."

    So this MODERNIZATION, which allowed to increase power by 15% and slightly increase the assigned resource, but not by 2 times!

    Thirdly, the allegedly "Russian" engine, although it would be more correct to write a Russian assembly, it will only be tested on tests and, God forbid, by the year 15-16, production will begin.

    Fourthly, finally, ours understood and clearly convinced in Torzhok that the TB3-117BMA-SBM1B engine of the 4E series is really an ENGINE, and not ... what our people are trying to present as something unparalleled in the world " wassat

    Fifth, on the Mi-24 all his life stood TV-117V, on the Mi-14 only special TV3-117M for it

    For the author, only TV8-2A and AG were on the Mi-117T!

    Somewhere like that, so Wlad59 Most of your posts are right, and you, unfortunately, are not!
    1. papamahno
      papamahno 26 May 2013 20: 12
      -4
      It is developed, since all modifications after Klivoska are VM, VMA, etc. are Ukrainian.
      1. stranik72
        stranik72 26 May 2013 21: 28
        0
        It is developed, since all modifications after Klivoska are VM, VMA, etc. are Ukrainian.
        Do not fuck this VM and VMA, modifications of the end of 1987, the VM on the Mi-8MT began to be put in series since March 1988 on the Mi-24 VM a little earlier. Developer Klimov.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 26 May 2013 09: 20
    +2
    Quote: wlad59
    What engines are going to produce at the plant under construction in St. Petersburg? VK-2500 ((which is 30 years old ...

    belay

    VK-2500 engine manufactured by JSC "Klimov"

    The VK-2500 turboshaft engine is designed for the modernization of medium-sized Mi-8MT / Mi-17, Mi-24, Mi-14, Ka-32, Ka-50, Mi-28 helicopters and others. The VK-2500 engine is a further development of the TV3 family engines -117 and differs from the basic TV3-117VMA engine by increased power characteristics by 15-20%, the introduction of a new digital automatic control and control system of the FADEC type, as well as an increased resource. In 2000-2001 the engine has completed certification (Type Certificate AP MAK ST197-AMD) and state bench tests. Full compatibility with previous modifications provides the ability to modernize the existing helicopter fleet in the shortest possible time.

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/26531/
    1. wlad59
      wlad59 26 May 2013 09: 34
      +5
      From an interview with Boguslaev on April 17, 2013. "Boguslaev is skeptical about the news about the launch of the" newest "Russian VK-2500 engine:
      - The engine is already 30 years old. I wish you success in mastering the engine thirty years ago. It is necessary to master something promising, and not the 3rd generation engine.
      - More recently, this engine showed the premiere of DM. Medvedev?
      - And ten years ago they demonstrated it to the then speaker Boris Gryzlov. With the words “we have assembled the Russian VK-2500 engine for the first time”. Then we told the executive director of OJSC "Klimov" Alexander Vatagin that this engine smells of Ukrainian lard. This is our old engine, we make it and sell it to Vatagin. He puts the units and delivers them as his own. Let him "master", do not mind. Meanwhile, our new 5th generation engine is being tested in Torzhok, on a helicopter from the Russian Defense Ministry. Shooting remained. The pilots even exceeded our, Ukrainian, indicators. They are delighted with the capabilities of the car with our engines ... "(AEX.ru)
      1. stranik72
        stranik72 26 May 2013 11: 43
        +3
        Everything is true, as in a confession.
        1. VAF
          VAF 26 May 2013 14: 45
          +4
          Quote: stranik72
          Everything is true, as in a confession.


          Hi Stranik, +! drinks So they, these " fellow get up, "when they listened to this truth?
          After all, the main thing is ... to "climb" on "doneunas" and "Vika" and here is a ready-made "airspace" that can compete on any aviation topics, but what distinguishes the engine B, VM from VC and why B can be converted into VM and VMA, but there is no VK ..... the same will not be written in Wiki recourse

          All my life, all operators for all kinds of repair engines have been chasing and are chasing precisely Motor Sich engines, and, to the extreme, for repair ones from UZGA.
          1. stranik72
            stranik72 26 May 2013 16: 25
            +3
            Hi VAF Yes they these guys, in principle, are not bad patriots, they really (in principle, like us) want Russia to get up from its knees, but they do not understand the GDP and the "swamp" people WILL NOT be able to do this, well, they are not able, with such energy prices, some countries we got out of feudalism, and during this time we have not created ANY breakthrough model of aviation technology, we all exploit the achievements of the great SOVKA.
      2. evil hamster
        evil hamster 26 May 2013 12: 55
        +2
        Quote: wlad59
        Meanwhile, our new engine 5 generation tested in Torzhok, on a helicopter of the Ministry of Defense of Russia
        Oh ha ha ha ha Boguslaev stop oh cant what are you doing
      3. beard999
        beard999 26 May 2013 14: 26
        +6
        Quote: wlad59
        From an interview with Boguslaev April 17, 2013

        Boguslaev, to put it mildly, is disingenuous. He knows very well that they will produce Petersburg Motors. I quote: “In the new design and production complex Petersburg Motors the production of a new generation of helicopter engines TV7-117 will begin, which should replace TV3-117, developed at Klimov in Soviet times, as well as a new modification of VK-2500. “These are also Klimovsk developments, but they will not be at Motor Sich, they will be assembled only with us,” says Klimov’s representative Pavel Goroshkov. ” http://www.vz.ru/economy/2011/12/7/544960.print.html.
        And with a statement “on joint modernization,” he was clearly in a hurry. Here is the official response of Russian Helicopters to Boguslaev’s words:
        “Earlier, a number of media outlets, referring to the president of Motor Sich JSC, Vyacheslav Boguslaev, reported that the Russian Helicopters holding allegedly supported the project of remotorization of previously produced helicopters.
        In this regard, we emphasize that the Russian Helicopters holding is exploring the feasibility and feasibility of upgrading the previously issued Mi-8T helicopters, but there are no agreements on equipping these helicopters with TV3-117VMA-SBM1B engines manufactured by the Ukrainian company Motor Sich. The Russian Helicopters holding and the Ukrainian engine company Motor Sich do not have specific agreements on the remotorization of Mi-8T helicopters with new-generation Ukrainian engines TV3-117VMA-SBM1V, and there are no other new agreements on the joint modernization of helicopters.
        Please note that in the field of supply of military helicopters, the Helicopters of Russia holding company fulfills tasks that the customer represented by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation sets before him under the state defense order; There are no contracts under the state defense order with the TV3-117VMA-SBM1V engine.
        Please be informed that within the framework of the international exhibition of the helicopter industry "HeliRussia 2013" with the President of Motor Sich JSC, negotiations were held only on problematic issues of operation of serial engines manufactured by Motor Sich, which are equipped with Mi-8/17 helicopters, as well as their servicing ...
        In addition, today Russian Helicopters, at the request of helicopter technology operators, is exploring the possibility of upgrading the Mi-8T fleet. The decision on the appropriateness of such a project will depend on the results of this work. However, negotiations on this subject were not held with Motor Sich at the last exhibition. ” http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2013/05/24/255645.html.
        1. stranik72
          stranik72 26 May 2013 16: 36
          +4
          When, on behalf of VVP, Torzhok was given the task of testing the Boguslaev engine in VR and UEC, there was a hysteria. If you knew what dirty tricks they didn’t go to, so that the engine “didn’t show itself”. It didn't work out. And now there is a problem, they spent a lot of money on the production of the VK2500PS engine at the new plant, and it has the same characteristics as that of Boguslaevsky, only he is already flying, and Klimovsky is not yet from the new plant and the PS has not been modified. And money was spent on building and equipping the plant, so much that the education of the whole country could be financed for 2 years. Yes, BP and UEC will not allow Boguslaev to come to our market, there are political issues here, this is understandable, but the main thing is money. ,
          1. beard999
            beard999 26 May 2013 18: 21
            +4
            Quote: stranik72
            When, on behalf of GDP, Torzhok was given the task of testing the Boguslaevsky engine in BP and the UEC, there was a tantrum

            And where does the information about "hysteria" and "dirty tricks" come from (and what were they expressed in)? Link confirm you can give?
            In addition, VK-2500PS is a commercial engine modification http://klimov.ru/media/news/100000985/. For Mi-28N and Ka-52, the modification is designated as VK-2500P.
            But that’s not even the point. TV3-117VMA-SBM1V has not yet been launched into the series, and its testing continues http://www.aviaport.ru/news/2013/05/21/255446.html. And there is no particular interest on the part of Russian commercial companies using Mi-8T in installing the TV3-117VMA-SBM1V engine on it during modernization. This is recognized even by Boguslaev himself http://www.biztass.ru/news/id/69988. As for the RF Ministry of Defense, to date, in GPV-2020, there are no plans for the purchase of TV3-117VMA-SBM1V. The BP press release explicitly said so.
            I wish every success to Ukrainian engine builders, but it is time for them to realize that in Russia all decisions on helicopter engines have already been made. And adopted at the very top - the maximum possible independence in helicopter engine building from foreign suppliers. Russia has invested a lot of money in Petersburg Motors. In addition, 10 billion was invested in the modernization of UMPO http://topwar.ru/9094-oboronpromom-nalazhivaetsya-seriynyy-vypusk-otechestvennyh
            -vertoletnyh-dvigateley-v-ufe.html. And of course, two years after these enterprises reach full capacity, no one is going to tolerate foreign competitors in the domestic Russian market. In my opinion, the only possible form of cooperation with Ukrainian engine builders is access to the markets of third countries.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 26 May 2013 12: 49
    +3
    First VK2500 - 10 years.
    Secondly, they plan to release VK2500P / PS and TV7-117A
  • Gluxar_
    Gluxar_ 26 May 2013 15: 27
    -1
    Quote: wlad59
    What engines are going to produce at the plant under construction in St. Petersburg? VK-2500 ((which is 30 years old ...

    VK-2500 is not 30 years old, but 12. And at the moment it is one of the best engines in the world in its class. More than 30 years for the entire TV3-117 engine family. Just like the 153 ICE engine, but all modern cars continue to drive it, only the "modernized" one.

    And the main advantage of VK-2500 is that it is a completely Russian engine that can satisfy all the needs of the helicopter industry in its segment, regardless of foreign partners.
  • papamahno
    papamahno 26 May 2013 20: 05
    -2
    Quote: wlad59
    What engines are going to produce at the plant under construction in St. Petersburg? VK-2500 ((which is 30 years old ...

    - None. The control unit is screwed to the finished Ukrainian ones and called them Russian.
    1. svp67
      svp67 26 May 2013 20: 13
      +1
      Quote: papamahno
      - None. The control unit is screwed to the finished Ukrainian ones and called them Russian.

      Well, well, if the Ukrainian worker did not get his hands on this, then why not finish the "semi-finished product"
  • andrre122
    andrre122 26 May 2013 10: 30
    0
    Stop pulling the blanket over you.
    "there is a need for the emergence and, most importantly, the development of the production of helicopter engines in Russia ..."
    Who is the need for?
    You need to integrate and for this you need a platform. Or to give a charming piece of Russia to hell of geyropa? Is this also a necessity for you?
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 26 May 2013 11: 48
      +6
      Well done Boguslaev, trying to snatch everything from the Russian market as long as there is an opportunity. After all, after the launch of the plant at the Klimov Design Bureau, he can hardly hope for any significant sales volume.

      And helicopters can be upgraded even after 2015 - already with Russian engines.
      1. wlad59
        wlad59 26 May 2013 18: 52
        +2
        I think so, for Motor Sich the world has not converged like a wedge in Russia. Quote: "Chairman of the State Agency for Science, Innovation and Informatization Volodymyr Semynozhenko at a briefing in the Cabinet of Ministers said that until 2041 Ukraine will export to China engines for L-15 combat trainer aircraft worth $ 5,7 billion ... contract in 2001 and should be completed in 2041. The total production volume is 5,7 billion US dollars. During this period, Ukraine plans to supply 1 thousand 920 engines to China and carry out 3 thousand 840 repairs. "
        1. wlad59
          wlad59 26 May 2013 18: 56
          0
          And this is only the engine: AI-222-25F.
        2. Krilion
          Krilion 27 May 2013 06: 53
          0
          Quote: wlad59
          Seminozhenko said at a briefing in the Cabinet of Ministers that by 2041 Ukraine will export to China engines for L-15 combat trainers worth $ 5,7 billion ... Engine supplies under the contract began in 2001 and should be completed in 2041. The total production volume is USD 5,7 billion. During the mentioned period, Ukraine plans to supply 1 engines to China and carry out 920 repairs. "


          only very stupid people can build long-term plans for China .... they rolled their lips .... in a couple of years it will unexpectedly turn out that the Chinese can do on their own both in maintenance and in production ...
          1. wlad59
            wlad59 27 May 2013 12: 23
            0
            You are confusing the concepts of ASSEMBLY and PRODUCTION. The Chinese can buy 1 plane (Su-27) and start assembling it at home (you don't need a lot of mind, if you have money), but they can also start PRODUCING engines ... But for some reason, their bearings will begin to "fly" not after 5000 operating hours, but after ... 300. And the resource of the turbine blades will be (for some reason) ... 10 times less than on the Ukrainian engine. Example ... Russia: to draw an engine, create a prototype - please, but it is not possible to establish production (and so that the engine is not 5-10 times more expensive than that of competitors).
    2. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 26 May 2013 16: 02
      +3
      Quote: andrre122
      Stop pulling the blanket over yourself. "There is a need for the emergence and, most importantly, the development of the production of helicopter engines in Russia ..."

      What nonsense are written? What kind of drool? It is necessary to integrate. But this has nothing to do with the transfer of strategic multi-million dollar contracts abroad. Ukraine is now another country, a country in which processions of veterans are prohibited in some cities, where headless young animals attack veterans. It is necessary to integrate, and first of all, by the Ukrainians themselves, those who want their grandchildren to live on their land, and not to be hired by the lords and Western masters.
      And it was enough to integrate at the expense of the Russian people, they had already integrated, so they could not make their own engines for their own helicopters. For a successful union, you need a strong powerful "parent" state. And when we ourselves are self-sufficient and successful, then people will be drawn to us.
  • Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 26 May 2013 11: 52
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Ukraine and Russia will jointly upgrade helicopters.
    Maybe this is economically and profitable, but I think that there is already a need for the appearance and most importantly the development of the production of helicopter engines in Russia ...


    Yes, this statement does not say anything. Our temboley did not express much enthusiasm. Even if we agreed ... we are talking about the Mi-8, and the Black Shark is drawn in the picture.

    It seems to me that this is a clean soap bubble. Another Ukrainian businessman puts his eyebrows in a house to receive dividends from the image of Russian helicopter builders.

    By the way, the Orshinsky plant was given to them in vain ...
    1. stranik72
      stranik72 26 May 2013 16: 40
      0
      They didn’t give, but bought, this is the first, second Russia today without Boguslaev is not able to assemble not TV3-117, not VK-2500, that's what a catch, and engine repair is also tied to it, according to repair kits. So, the image of the Russian helicopter industry is entirely in the hands of Boguslaev.
  • Gluxar_
    Gluxar_ 26 May 2013 15: 22
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Maybe this is economically and profitable, but I think that there is already a need for the appearance and most importantly the development of the production of helicopter engines in Russia ...

    I agree. Moreover, Russia has already created the production of its own engines of the same brand.
    However, production has just been launched and is still not coping with the entire volume of orders. Now, new helicopters are being produced and old ones are being modernized. In addition, there is a huge order for our helicopters from foreign customers. And taking into account the fact that we have been cooperating with Ukrainians for many years, it is still profitable to continue cooperation at least in 2013.

    Although the information in this article is the opinion of the "motor sich" themselves. There is no official confirmation from the Russian side yet.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 18
    -1
    It is high time to build engines in Russia.
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 26 May 2013 06: 48
    -1
    It is necessary to start, to revive relations that have been spoiled up to impossible. May joint economic projects contribute.
    1. svp67
      svp67 26 May 2013 07: 20
      12
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      It is necessary to start, to revive relations that have been spoiled up to impossible. May joint economic projects contribute.
      I agree 100%. But there is one "BUT" that crosses out everything - the graph of relations with Ukraine resembles a sinusoid, where the highest point is wishes, and the lowest is fulfillment. And in the bottom line, Russia gets - a bunch of money spent, zero goods, and in addition a bunch of political accusations, and even contemplation, as others are counting on ...
    2. Hudo
      Hudo 26 May 2013 07: 22
      +4
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      May joint economic projects contribute.


      If the ruling elite in Ukraine, figuratively speaking, has a ring in his nostrils worn like a bull led to a slaughterhouse, and those who eat this ring lead in the opposite direction, then no economic projects will force the puppets of the West to act even logically.
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 26 May 2013 08: 10
        +2
        Well, somehow hope dies))).
      2. Warrawar
        Warrawar 26 May 2013 08: 19
        +1
        Quote: Hudo
        If the ruling elite in Ukraine, figuratively speaking, has a ring in his nostrils worn like a bull led to a slaughterhouse, and those who eat this ring lead in the opposite direction, then no economic projects will force the puppets of the West to act even logically.

        Don't blame everything on the "ruling elite". Millions are obsessed with Russophobia in Ukraine.
        1. Ivanovich47
          Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 30
          -5
          Almost all the people of Ukraine hate Russia. And no need to build illusions
  • sir.jonn
    sir.jonn 26 May 2013 07: 19
    -1
    It’s a plus for both sides when creating such projects, unlike the restoration of the production of an-124 where Russia finances and buys at the same time fruiting muzzles, which were ripe for theft, and Ukraine receives jobs and money.
    1. svp67
      svp67 26 May 2013 07: 55
      +9
      Quote: sir.jonn
      It’s a plus for both sides when creating such projects, unlike the restoration of the production of an-124 where Russia finances and buys at the same time fruiting muzzles, which were ripe for theft, and Ukraine receives jobs and money.

      And the option in which Ukraine, having restored the production of engines and producing them in the proper quantity, will simply "throw" Russia, by starting to install the engine itself, is not you considering?
      “Around the world, it is necessary to replace engines in three thousand helicopters. We are counting on at least the supply of 300-400 engines to the Russian market, where, according to our estimates, there is a need for modernization ”

      Of 3000, the maximum is 400, and who will take and deliver 2600 and where?
      You understand, we can raise not only a competitor, but also a monopolist, and for our own money and not at home, but on the territory of the country, which leads us, to put it mildly, "an unstable political and economic course."
      Therefore, I believe that it is possible to purchase a small part of engines from Ukraine without investing in the development of their production, but make the main efforts to establish production at home, especially since KB Klimova, the main developer of these engines, is located in Russia.
      And I think that with such a development, Ukraine will become more consistent in its actions.
      1. common man
        common man 26 May 2013 08: 23
        +2
        Making an engine and installing it on a product are two big differences. To do this, build a helicopter plant. So, in this case, you should not be afraid of competition. It is rather a pure business here. You make the engine, we buy it. And we do what we want with it. Provided that the price of both suits.
        1. svp67
          svp67 26 May 2013 08: 43
          +1
          Quote: man in the street
          Making an engine and installing it on a product are two big differences. To do this, build a helicopter plant.

          As far as I know, REPLACEMENT of the engine was carried out with the forces and means of the TECH of the military units ... so this is really TWO BIG differences:
          - A large factory equipped with modern machine tools and high-class personnel for engine production;
          - and an engine replacement company that is more than average in scale and number of working personnel.
          1. common man
            common man 26 May 2013 10: 02
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            REPLACEMENT of the engine was carried out by forces and means of the fuel and energy complex of military units

            I REPLACE the engine for the same type I agree. But here we are talking about MODERNIZATION. That is, the installation of a completely new (according to the same Cossacks themselves) engine. Which implies the replacement of control systems, power, control, etc. In general, the modernization of a product (in this case, a helicopter) is a major overhaul with the replacement of individual units with more advanced ones. If wrong, correct.
            1. svp67
              svp67 26 May 2013 10: 48
              0
              Quote: man in the street
              I REPLACE the engine for the same type I agree. But here we are talking about MODERNIZATION.

              Well let's see:
              - Motor Sich





              - an enterprise capable of upgrading a helicopter


              As they say, feel the difference ...
              1. common man
                common man 26 May 2013 11: 10
                +2
                Quote: svp67
                feel the difference.

                Sorry, I didn't understand what you wanted to say. If the fact that a plant serially producing aircraft engines is larger than an aircraft repair plant, then I do not argue. But such a "small" factory must be built. With all the rigging. And it is different from the engine building. By the way, what is shown in the bottom photo?
                If the Ukrainians want to build such a plant and find the money for it, then what can they forbid? Let them upgrade themselves. Ours will start their production of engines, and will also upgrade. Healthy competition. So let's see whose upgrade is better.

                PS http://www.aviaport.ru/ Earlier, a number of media outlets, referring to the President of Motor Sich JSC, Vyacheslav Boguslaev, reported that the Russian Helicopters holding allegedly supported the project of remotorization of previously produced helicopters.

                In this regard, we emphasize that the Russian Helicopters holding is studying the possibility and feasibility of upgrading the previously produced Mi-8T helicopters, but there are no agreements on equipping these helicopters with TV3-117VMA-SBM1V engines manufactured by the Ukrainian Motor Sich company. The Russian Helicopters holding and the Ukrainian engine-building company Motor Sich do not have specific agreements on the remotorization of Mi-8T helicopters with the new generation TV3-117VMA-SBM1V Ukrainian engines, and there are no other new agreements on joint modernization of helicopters.

                We would like to draw your attention to the fact that in the sphere of supplying military helicopters, the Russian Helicopters holding carries out tasks that the customer, represented by the RF Ministry of Defense, puts before it within the framework of the state defense order; there are no contracts under the state defense order with the TV3-117VMA-SBM1V engine.
                So what is the argument, gentlemen?
                1. svp67
                  svp67 26 May 2013 11: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: man in the street
                  By the way, what is shown in the bottom photo?

                  A small factory in Plekhanovo (“Plant No. 26”, Tyumen with 350 employees), where an entire cycle of repairs and modernization of helicopters for oil companies such as GazpromAvia, Rosneft and many others is carried out.

                  Quote: man in the street
                  If the Ukrainians want to build such a plant and find money for it, then what can they forbid?


                  Everything is much simpler:
                  Ukrainian businessman, the main shareholder of Motor Sich PJSC, Vyacheslav Boguslaev, wants to produce “fundamentally new helicopters” in Orsha. This was discussed at the general meeting of shareholders of Orsha Aircraft Repair Plant OJSC that took place this week.
                  Recall that in February last year, Orsha Aircraft Repair Plant OJSC was privatized. According to the decree of the President of Belarus, Motor Sich PJSC sold 59,5% of the shares, and the Belarusian CJSC Investment and Innovation Systems received 39,7% of the securities. Another 0,8% of the shares are owned by the workers of the plant.
                  1. common man
                    common man 26 May 2013 11: 33
                    +3
                    Quote: svp67
                    ALL cycle of repair and modernization of helicopters

                    http://zavod26.public.tyumen.ru/
                    Aircraft Repair Plant No. 26, Tyumen, performs overhaul and maintenance of aircraft of the type Mi-8, Mi-17 (Mi-8MT), Mi-8MTV, Mi-8AMT, Mi-2, An-2, MI-171V, as well as the components and assemblies that make up their structure.
                    We are not talking about any modernization.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 26 May 2013 12: 25
                      0
                      Quote: man in the street
                      We are not talking about any modernization.

                      Okay, but the Open Joint-Stock Company “356 Aviation Repair Plant” in the city of Saratov
                      1. common man
                        common man 26 May 2013 12: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        Open Joint-Stock Company “356 Aviation Repair Plant” in the city of Saratov


                        http://www.arz356.isar.ru/index.html Вид деятельности:
                        Maintenance and repair of aircraft equipment.
                        The plant is a structural unit of Aviaremont OJSC, but it is already. - A Russian company that performs repair, modernization, warranty and after-sales services, utilization of aviation equipment, ground support for flights of aviation, weapons and military defense equipment. (http://aviaremont.ru/)
                        And generally speaking. what are we arguing about? smile I suggest- drinks
                      2. svp67
                        svp67 26 May 2013 13: 03
                        0
                        Quote: man in the street

                        And generally speaking. what are we arguing about? smile I suggest- drinks


                        yes good yes
                  2. svp67
                    svp67 26 May 2013 12: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: man in the street
                    Aircraft Repair Plant No.26, Tyumen, performs overhaul and maintenance of aircraft

                    And by the way, if the new engines really turn out to be excellent, then GAZPROM will find the money to purchase a certificate for the modernization and training of specialists ...
                    1. common man
                      common man 26 May 2013 13: 15
                      +1
                      And I do not mind!
                2. VAF
                  VAF 26 May 2013 15: 55
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  A small factory in Plekhanovo (“Plant No. 26”, Tyumen with 350 employees), where the whole cycle of repair and modernization of helicopters is carried out


                  Of repair plants in Russia, only SPARK is engaged in modernization soldier
          2. wlad59
            wlad59 26 May 2013 18: 24
            0
            That's right ... 100%
        2. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 26 May 2013 16: 28
          +2
          Quote: svp67
          As far as I know, REPLACEMENT of the engine was carried out by the forces and means of the military technical units of military units ... so this is really TWO BIG differences: -a large, equipped with modern machines and high-class personnel plant for the production of engines; -and more than an average enterprise in terms of scale and number of working personnel engine replacement.

          It's not about the replacement itself, but about the full service. Russia is expanding its helicopter service network around the world. And new contracts for helicopters also include their service, so it is more profitable for the customer to cooperate with an official helicopter manufacturer than to buy components for these helicopters on the side. The contracts are very complex and include many conditions, including concessional lending. Therefore, you should not be afraid of the "motor sich" as a competitor. However, it is necessary to develop our own production and design. If desired, it will be possible to bankrupt the "motor sich" and redeem it.

          Although personally I believe that cooperation is still beneficial, but only as a temporary measure. it is not prudent to depend on a foreign supplier for an issue like helicopter manufacturing. The fact is that some of the sold-out Ukrainian officials, if necessary, will destroy both the "motor Sich" and the people who work there, only to curry favor with their owners and not lose the "Schengen" and accounts ...
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 26 May 2013 07: 24
    +2
    Maybe at least something useful will be done by Ukraine for Russia.
    But if they do it as "efficiently" as a pair of wagons (how many accidents occurred at Russian Railways, due to the PROVEN fault of the Ukrainian side!), Then helicopters will also fall.
    1. Delink
      Delink 26 May 2013 08: 16
      +1
      Maybe at least something useful will be done by Ukraine for Russia.

      She can do good if she becomes part of Russia. Otherwise, she does not survive.
  • Warrawar
    Warrawar 26 May 2013 08: 13
    +6
    Russia needs to engage in the establishment of production, in a full cycle, at home. Stop feeding competitors!
  • crambol
    crambol 26 May 2013 08: 29
    +6
    Quote: Warrawar
    Russia needs to engage in the establishment of production, in a full cycle, at home.

    It is very sad that a strategically important technique is being made by someone. Depending on an extremely fickle and unpredictable neighbor is very dangerous.
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 26 May 2013 08: 59
      +3
      I mean the same thing. Dependence is a vulnerability that is clearly visible from afar and in which case they will be hit by it.
      1. orff
        orff 26 May 2013 12: 14
        -4
        More than 20 years have passed since the dismemberment of the USSR, and full cycle in the Russian avaprom and not to be seen. Just as we didn’t know how to make engines for small-sized aircraft (small helicopters, UAVs), we still didn’t learn: we are still looking towards Motor Sich. The same problem is with composite materials: we are still looking towards Antonov. But the salaries of top management and other managers receive a lot more than the president. And for what merit?
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 26 May 2013 13: 19
          +1
          About how, and let me find out from us, Antonov’s company is among the leaders in the use of composites? And can you be an example of an Antonovsky airplane with widespread use of KKM?
          1. papamahno
            papamahno 26 May 2013 20: 16
            -3
            Quote: evil hamster
            About how, and let me find out from us, Antonov’s company is among the leaders in the use of composites?

            - It’s true, Antonov was the leader in composing and profile composing and was at the scoop for their implementation. In the heavy Superjet of composites 5%, in the An-148 25%.
            And Motor Sich - everything, I emphasize ALL engines. Over the past 20 years, Ukraine has produced dozens of types, while in the Russian Federation several pieces.
            1. evil hamster
              evil hamster 27 May 2013 13: 40
              0
              Koteg Hare rave
      2. orff
        orff 26 May 2013 14: 07
        +2
        Soviet aircraft designer Antonov Oleg Konstantinovich, the first in the USSR to develop a computer-aided design system for transport aircraft, introduced adhesive joints and composite materials.
        Composite materials (KM) are widely used in the design of An aircraft. KM are used for fairings, runways, engine nacelles, sash niches and cargo hatches, structural elements of the floor, interior of passenger cabins and pilot cabins, and more recently, wing and tail units.
        For example, information on the structural elements of the glider AN 140 made of composites.
        1. the tail of the wing is made of aluminum and composite materials, flaps and ailerons - from KM
        2. The keel is entirely made of KM
        3. elevators and turning - from KM.
        4. stabilizer - from aluminum alloys
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 26 May 2013 14: 57
          -2
          A respected application of this type of CMC is widespread throughout the world and in Russia in particular, there is nothing unusual or different from the general level in this. Here is a typical example
      3. orff
        orff 26 May 2013 17: 14
        +1
        What does this characteristic example speak of? List of glider elements from KM to studio please.
        I will add that the main consumer of composite materials is passenger and transport aircraft. Still, overloads there are not the same as military aircraft.
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 26 May 2013 17: 26
          0
          Open your eyes and look at the photo, everything is clear as day.
          Quote: orff
          that the main consumer of composite materials is passenger and transport aircraft
          That is why a composite wing box is created for the MS-21. So what is it interesting to me that Russian aircraft manufacturers look at Antonovtsev?
          1. orff
            orff 26 May 2013 18: 11
            +2
            On the entire post-Soviet territory, only two design bureaus are viable and have retained the entire chain of development and production of aircraft: Antonov and Sukhoi. But the Sukhoi Design Bureau can only seriously engage in military vehicles (it is still unknown when the Sukhoi Superjet-100 project will pay off). Whereas the traditional profile of the Antonov Design Bureau is military transport and regional passenger aircraft.
            For example, the developers of the Irkut aircraft MS-21 and Tu-204CM stated that in Russia there are no necessary materials and technologies, production equipment is outdated, production control methods do not meet international standards.
            1. evil hamster
              evil hamster 26 May 2013 19: 34
              +1
              I already heard this nonsense many times. Let's get back to the facts.
              1. According to the office. MiG site in the MiG29K / KUB glider - 15% of the composites
              2. According to the GC interview in the T50 glider - 40% of the composites
              3. The prototype of the ceson for MC21 passed the statics in Tsagi, in the summer it should be ready full-size in Ulyanovsk and also go to Tsagi.
              Quote: orff
              For example, developers of Irkut MS-21 aircraft
              In the intervals between the design of the composite wing, they noted this, they stated a little bit and again for work.
  • Ragnarek
    Ragnarek 26 May 2013 08: 32
    +5
    not reliable partners, to put it mildly. better to produce their engines
    1. papamahno
      papamahno 26 May 2013 20: 17
      -2
      Where are you going to make and what?
  • wlad59
    wlad59 26 May 2013 08: 42
    -5
    Finally, the ruling elite of Russia realized that politics was politics, and the quality of Ukrainian engines TB3-117BMA-CBM1B 4E, an order of magnitude better than installed on MI-8. Thank goodness common sense won. ((by the way, on May 17 of this year, MI-17 with Ukrainian engines made a unique flight through the Andes to Peru, rising to a height of more than 6300 m.
    1. Makarov
      Makarov 26 May 2013 11: 41
      -2
      Quote: wlad59
      ... the quality of Ukrainian engines TB3-117BMA-CBM1B 4E, an order of magnitude better than installed on MI-8 ...
      the same eggs - profile view. modified a little ... it just seems that the VMA generally is more powerful ... the nominee is the same ... how are they better?
    2. svp67
      svp67 26 May 2013 18: 17
      +1
      Quote: wlad59
      quality of Ukrainian engines TB3-117BMA-CBM1B 4E, an order of magnitude better than installed on MI-8


      Forgive the amateur, but now on the Mi8 engines of what production are?
      1. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 01: 13
        0
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: wlad59
        quality of Ukrainian engines TB3-117BMA-CBM1B 4E, an order of magnitude better than installed on MI-8


        Forgive the amateur, but now on the Mi8 engines of what production are?

        - All are 100% Ukrainian. That is, cheeseboarding - to put the old, or not to put the newest unique ones. :)
    3. Ivanovich47
      Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 33
      -2
      Well, Russia cannot rely on Ukrainian engines for military equipment. Americans will hang down and Ukrainians will arrange a trick for Russia. I am sure. need to stop buying engines from Ukraine1
      1. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 22: 18
        -1
        Quote: Ivanovich47
        Well, Russia cannot rely on Ukrainian engines for military equipment. Americans will hang down and Ukrainians will arrange a trick for Russia. I am sure. need to stop buying engines from Ukraine1

        - It’s true that you also don’t have to buy from Pratt-Whitney, Thuromeki and Rolls-Royce - although they don’t really sell them to you anyway. wink
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 26 May 2013 08: 45
    0
    Motor Sich and Russian Helicopters


    maybe all the other way around, Russian Helicopters and Motor Sich, and the article should read "Russia and Ukraine ..." and it's not even my "imperial" ambitions, just if you compare the market capitalization of both companies, then, in simple terms, this is " elephant and pug ", 3 lard hryvnia & 3.5 lard only already" evergreen "

    and a minus article, again cheap Ukrainian populism

    PS. and even if Motor Sich, for example, did not agree, it would most likely be replaced by an imported engine.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • pahom54
    pahom54 26 May 2013 11: 11
    -1
    Here is an eternal story ... The helicopter planes are ours, and the engines are foreign. What the heck??? And I will add: well, we cannot depend on such a partner as Ukraine, it is better to have business with Father Lukashenko, and even better - to create normal modern engines ourselves. If somewhere in the West some technology is superior to ours, look for Russian roots (that is, our emigrants are working hard for the good of the West). Well I don’t believe that all our engineers and scientists are stupid, I don’t believe !!! Conclusion: there is no prophet in his Fatherland, and a fat-assed official "pushes" all the ideas of sane people, and they have no opportunity for everyone to get through to Putin, to complain.
    It was the same in Soviet times - the old senile-barmalei-academician put the condition for young engineers and scientists: yes, we push through your project, but on the condition that I am the DAD of this PROJECT, and you are nobody.
    1. stranik72
      stranik72 26 May 2013 11: 49
      0
      In this context, the old senile, these are Russian helicopters.
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 26 May 2013 11: 26
    -1
    So:

    "Decisions on equipping the Armed Forces with new equipment must be fully implemented," Putin said and instructed the Defense Ministry to strictly follow the parameters of the state armaments program, "to be in close contact with each specific plant or design bureau." By 2015, the share of new-generation weapons should be 30 percent, by 2020, by 70-100 percent. Almost all of it will be produced in Russia. Arms supplies will continue to grow, Putin continued, setting the Defense Ministry the task of mastering the equipment on time and treating it with care. "
    http://www.rg.ru/2013/02/27/armiya-site.html

    "Serial release of foreign weapons in Russia is possible only with the full localization of production in the country, said Russian President Vladimir Putin at a meeting of the Security Council. "
    http://news.qip.ru/today/175473-vputin_serijjnyjj_vypusk_inostrannykh_vooruzheni
    jj_vozmozhen_pri_polnojj_lokalizacii_v_rf

    “I would like our industry to wake up and put up real prices. As for foreign technology, I don’t want to offend anyone, but we need to support our industry. But it also has to respond to all our requirements. However, we should be economical with any amount of money. If you need to buy abroad, we will buy, but if all forces and hopes for our industry run out, "Shoigu said.

    http://topwar.ru/23495-tehnika-dlya-minoborony-dolzhna-proizvoditsya-v-rossii-sc
    hitaet-shoygu.html

    nothing personal, fellow countrymen, but in Russia it seems to you no more.
    1. Concept1
      Concept1 26 May 2013 12: 20
      +1
      seller trucks- I absolutely agree with you!

      All the republics of the former Soviet Union need to slaughter on their own nose that Russia is an absolutely 100% self-sufficient state that will not depend on anyone in anything. Especially on key strategic technologies. And all this partnership Russia needs to a certain stage ..
    2. wlad59
      wlad59 26 May 2013 18: 44
      +1
      Of course ... nothing personal: that is why, following the instructions of the GDP, not Ukrainian engines installed on ANSAT, but .... Canadian PW (Pratt & Whitney)
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 26 May 2013 21: 12
        +6
        VK-800B
        Development - Klimov OJSC.
        Mass production - Klimov OJSC, UMPO OJSC.

        VK-800V is the fifth generation light turboshaft engine in the 800 hp power class. for Ansat, Ka-226, Mi-54 and other helicopters, the first fundamentally new development of a helicopter engine in Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
        1. stranik72
          stranik72 26 May 2013 21: 35
          +1
          Yes, he also did not pass the test, so all these are just plans, about the 5th generation it is ridiculous, in the drawings he existed since 1989.
      2. common man
        common man 26 May 2013 21: 26
        -2
        Quote: wlad59
        installed not Ukrainian engines, but .... Canadian PW (Pratt & Whitney)

        Well, if everything is as in life. With unfamiliar people it is often easier to negotiate than with close relatives.
    3. papamahno
      papamahno 26 May 2013 20: 17
      -4
      Quote: seller trucks
      By 2015, the share of new-generation weapons should be 30 percent, by 2020, by 70-100 percent. Almost all of it will be produced in Russia.

      - When you are, please write.
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 26 May 2013 20: 39
        +2
        Quote: papamahno
        - When you are, please write


        The purchase and receipt of the new complex is included in the state armament program until the 2020 of the year. Add that the assembly of these ATZs, apparently, is supposed to be carried out at Volvo Vostok CJSC, the Volvo assembly plant in Kalugaeffective from 2009 of the year. We point out that in accordance with order No.380 of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of Russia dated May 5 of May 2009, Volvo Vostok products manufactured at the Volvo plant in Kaluga are recognized as domestic and are included in the approved list of motor vehicles and utility vehicles for purchase by Russian entities Federation using subsidies. The ATZ1210FM400 fueling complex itself, mounted on the Volvo FMX chassis, was manufactured by CJSC Plant of Special Vehicles (Mtsensk, Oryol Region).

        why wait? Please respect the people who have the right corrupting priorities.
      2. Concept1
        Concept1 26 May 2013 21: 27
        +3
        UMPO OJSC will become a serial supplier of parts for helicopter engines.
        The decision was made based on the results of the DSE defect manufactured by UMPO OJSC and passed the acceptance tests and lengthy tests this year as part of the TV3-117 engine. The product included almost 450 items of DSE manufactured by UMPO OJSC, the state of which, after testing, was generally assessed as positive.
        The manufacture of an installation batch of DSE RGK engines of the TV3-117 and VK-2500 type by OJSC UMPO completed in November 2010. In the same month, it was shipped to Klimov OJSC for type tests and confirmation of UMPO OJSC as their serial manufacturer and supplier. By order of the UK Management Company United Engine Building Corporation, the company is assigned the development and serial production of RGKs for the TV3-117 and VK-2500 engines, as well as the serial production of the VK-2500K engine in cooperation with Klimov OJSC, Moscow Machine-Building Enterprise named after . V.V. Chernysheva ”, OJSC“ Ural Civil Aviation Plant ”, OJSC“ Red October ”.
        Also, as part of the development work, UMPO OJSC manufactured and transferred for further work to Klimov OJSC two sets of parts for VK-800V motors, the mass production of which is planned for 2015.
  • Makarov
    Makarov 26 May 2013 11: 33
    0
    Dviglo was initially frankly - first-class shit ... the aircraft version is generally the top of cretinism - to remove the shaft from the free turbine through the top, through the entire engine, while accordingly setting records for the number of bearings and gears in the engine ... brrrrr .... helicopter though is devoid of this absurdity ... the idea itself was relevant during development - 1965-1972..40 years ago. I hope it was brought to the state of a modern engine, but still this is not the right path of development, it was necessary to draw from "0" ....
  • Vovka levka
    Vovka levka 26 May 2013 12: 17
    -1
    It is interesting to read the comments, to be honest, laughter strangles.
    The argument is similar: who is longer and thicker.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 12: 31
    -3
    Until the "svidomye" decide on their "vector" of development, no joint venture. After all, again, they will cheat or steal something! Away from such "lads"
  • Akim
    Akim 26 May 2013 12: 44
    +4
    The Aviakon enterprise (Konotop) repairs and modernizes helicopters Mi-2, Mi-8/17, Mi-24/35. If they develop a Ukrainian helicopter, they will produce it. The capacity is there. The main thing is that there are orders.
    On May 14 this year, work began on the modernization of the Mi-24V series helicopters.
    1. Akim
      Akim 26 May 2013 12: 45
      +4
      Primary modernization of the Mi-24PU1
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 26 May 2013 13: 29
        -2
        The laser pointer as an ersatz night sight of course delivers.
        1. Akim
          Akim 26 May 2013 13: 49
          +2
          Quote: evil hamster
          Laser pointer as ersatz night sight

          And what's the problem? If only there was an efficiency. Together with the French thermal imager gives a good result at night.
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster 26 May 2013 15: 10
            -1
            The problem is that the thermal imager is not there as a class. And in the presence of a normal all-day observation sighting complex, such a "crutch" is not needed on the porosity
            1. Akim
              Akim 26 May 2013 15: 29
              +1
              Quote: evil hamster
              The problem is that the imager is missing there as a class

              http://aviakon.com/
              Here is the news of July 25 of that year:
              The list of installed package produced by a French company includes:

              - on-board computer;
              - multifunction displays;
              - optoelectronic station;
              - inertial-satellite navigation system;
              - digital card generator.

              Specialists of SE "AVIAKON" checked the compliance of the equipment presented to the technical requirements, which made it possible to close the previous stages and focus on organizing the supply of French equipment to Ukraine, which will be mounted on the first prototype of the modernized helicopter for ground testing with the involvement of specialists from Sagem DS. at the 8th International Aviation and Space Salon "AVIASVIT-XXI", which will open on September 27 at the airport "Kiev-Antonov". Also, Sagem DS provided a technical report on the work performed on the development of an optical-electronic sighting system, which is to be installed on the modernized helicopters.

              You probably have contacts everywhere, that everything is known for certain
              1. evil hamster
                evil hamster 26 May 2013 16: 09
                -1
                Quote: Akim
                You probably have contacts everywhere, that everything is known for certain

                Not at all, however, by car, a photograph of which you posted nothing like this is observed, or am I wrong?
                Quote: Akim
                DS The upgraded helicopter is planned to be demonstrated at the 8th International Aviation and Space Salon AVIASVIT-XXI, which will open on September 27 at the Kiev-Antonov airdrome. Sagem DS also provided a technical report on the work done to develop an optoelectronic sighting system, which is to be installed on modernized helicopters.

                Very interesting. So, was the above model demonstrated at this exhibition? Is the report online?
                PS and by the way why Ukraine should not order Mi35M in Rostov with its engines?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Akim
                  Akim 26 May 2013 16: 41
                  0
                  Quote: evil hamster
                  Not at all, however, on the machine the photograph of which you posted nothing of the kind is observed,

                  If it's so hard to understand Ukrainian in Russian: SMALL modernization of the Mi-24P helicopter. The picture was taken in February 2012. There are not even any Barrier-V or Alta ATGMs there.
                  Quote: evil hamster
                  Very interesting. So, was the above model demonstrated at this exhibition? Is the report online?

                  It was a demo. There is no report on the network yet. There are people who follow this news. It will appear - I will drop it.
                  Quote: evil hamster
                  and by the way, why Ukraine does not order Mi35M in Rostov with its engines?

                  There are many different versions of the Mi-24 in Ukraine. Why buy an entire car? Aviakon buys fuselages from Russia for the time being on the Mi-8. The purchase of Mi-24/35 fuselages is not yet planned, especially since a new light combat helicopter, the Ansata-2RTs / IAR-317 class, will appear in addition soon.
                  1. evil hamster
                    evil hamster 26 May 2013 17: 22
                    +1
                    Quote: Akim
                    If it’s so hard to understand Ukrainian in Russian: SMALL modernization of the Mi-24P helicopter.
                    So I'm actually over her "smallness" and ironic that you do not understand that?
                    Quote: Akim
                    It was a demo. There is no report on the network yet. There are people who follow this news. It will appear - I will drop it.
                    Well, let's wait for the factology.
                    Quote: Akim
                    In Ukraine, there are a lot of different versions of the Mi-24
                    This is understandable, but the resource is not infinite. Even if the board did not fly actively for 20 years, he did not become better.
                    Quote: Akim
                    Aviakon buys fuselages from Russia while on Mi-8
                    In the sense? New or what? And the gearbox, the supporting system?
                    Quote: Akim
                    all the more soon a new light combat helicopter will appear in addition
                    Based on Mi2 or something with novya? Who is the designer?
                    And as for the Mi35M - IMHO purely based on the needs of the Ukrainian Air Force, the normal option is new, everything is ready and working, a new supporting system, the emnip reducer is also new (not sure), relatively inexpensive. But of course, industry will not get much from this, in any case it is up to you (in the sense of Ukraine)
                    1. Conepatus
                      Conepatus 26 May 2013 19: 52
                      0
                      So what about the Mi2?
                      Amer, and Europe too, are stamping helicopters, the design of which goes back to the distant 60s. They put in new avionics, engines, a bit of a body will change and it's ready.
                    2. Akim
                      Akim 26 May 2013 19: 53
                      0
                      Quote: evil hamster
                      New or what? And the gearbox, the supporting system?

                      All their own, except for the fuselage. ... Enterprises of Chernihiv and Donetsk and Kharkiv and Kiev regions, etc. work at Avsiakon. A total of 42 enterprises
                      Quote: evil hamster
                      Based on Mi2 or something with novya? Who is the designer?

                      The Ukrainian company "Motor Sich" has launched a project for the production of a medium helicopter MSB-6 "Ataman"

                      Investments of Motor Sich PJSC in the preparation of mass production of light helicopters as part of the implementation of state helicopter programs today amounted to almost $ 30 million, Interfax-Ukraine reports referring to the company's management.

                      This step on the part of the state makes it possible to start the implementation of a project to create a helicopter weighing 5-6 tons, called MSB-6 "Ataman". In total, it is planned to spend about $ 150 million on the development of the project for the construction of light and medium helicopters.

                      The implementation of the project to create a medium-sized helicopter with a take-off weight of 5-6 tons, which bears the working name "Ataman", is at an early stage. PJSC "Motor Sich" plans to provide certification of this helicopter in two years.

                      Helicopter "Ataman" MSB-6 is a multipurpose helicopter designed to carry passengers and cargo. Among the main tasks of the helicopter are: evacuation of the sick and wounded, participation in anti-terrorist operations, transportation of people and cargo, air taxi. With the installed weapons and special equipment, the helicopter can be used for reconnaissance and observation, fire support of troops and fight against tanks.

                      I will not give visualization, because it is not correct (apparently taken from a flashlight).
                      Quote: evil hamster
                      Mi35M - IMHO purely based on the needs of the Ukrainian Air Force normal option

                      May be. I am poorly versed in this. I only saw the Mi-24 from above on live exercises and at an aerodrome in the distance. But upgrading the old costs an order of magnitude cheaper. And probably they are not worse than once:
                      During August 3 - December 26, 2012, two Mi-35 Indonesian Armed Forces were repaired and modernized at the AVIAKON (Konotop) plant. The machines have tail numbers HS-7129 and HS-7130 and were delivered to the Russian Federation Indonesia in 2002.
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 26 May 2013 20: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Akim
                        With installed weapons and special equipment, the helicopter can be used for reconnaissance and surveillance, fire support of troops and the fight against tanks.

                        Unification of light and medium attack helicopters will be maximum.
    2. Ivanovich47
      Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 12: 49
      0
      A penny de ???
      1. Akim
        Akim 26 May 2013 12: 55
        +5
        Quote: Ivanovich47
        A penny de ???

        There is also money. Do not think that Ukraine is a completely impoverished country. "Euro 2012" was held without making foreign loans like Poland. (Nobody has taken the government for 2,5 years. We live, however).
        1. papamahno
          papamahno 26 May 2013 22: 12
          -1
          2 billion hryvnia has already been allocated. By the end of 2014 there will be a whole gamut of Ukrainian helicopters, in the Mi-24PU2 in the final implementation.
    3. LINX
      27 May 2013 02: 27
      +1
      At HeliRussia 2013, Motor Sich provided its own development - a full-scale model of the model of the MSB-2 helicopter, they can soon set up the release.



      I think they will do it for the military on its basis.
      1. Splin
        Splin 27 May 2013 06: 43
        +2
        Quote: LINX
        I think they will do it for the military on its basis.

        When the MSB-2 was made, there was not yet the Ataman project. Therefore, in the beginning, a light attack helicopter will appear at its base, but the military wants a helicopter with a Tiger / Mongoose / Cobra take-off weight. Therefore, the military version of the MSB-6 is more preferable.
        1. LINX
          27 May 2013 19: 26
          0
          Thanks for the information, but is there something more specific on SME-6?
      2. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 22: 21
        -1
        [quote = LINX] At HeliRussia 2013, Motor Sich provided its own development - a full-scale model of the model of the MSB-2 helicopter, they can soon set up the release.



        - They are already being produced in the programs of SMEs and SMEs2, on the approach of SMEs 6 and new - the one that was previously called Rumas.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 13: 53
    -1
    Work, only do not touch Russia! stop
  • Nicotine 7
    Nicotine 7 26 May 2013 14: 33
    +2
    Well, small children, I swear! We need to cooperate, and not shit ..sya!
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 14: 38
    +1
    Collaboration presupposes joint work, while Ukrainians keep an eye on where and how to steal quickly. Moreover, where Russia independently develops and produces military equipment. such "friends" are not needed. Such "friends" are only interested in "pennies".
    1. Akim
      Akim 26 May 2013 14: 50
      +4
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      .And Ukrainians are watching where and how to steal quickly.

      You have a phobia. Here we sit and think only: where to steal? I recall that recently Russia has just left joint projects by throwing it over the central "finger". the second partner (Ukraine). Do you have other examples? And then as in the proverb: "Stop the thief, the thief himself shouts the loudest." (this is not about you personally, but about the Russian government). Refute - then I'll apologize.
      1. Ivanovich47
        Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 36
        -1
        Time should pass, then we'll see where it will be possible to create a joint venture. In the meantime. go to the European Union ...
        1. papamahno
          papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 48
          +2
          Yes, let's look at the joint venture.

          Quote: Ivanovich47
          In the meantime. go to the European Union ...

          “We go there only, as we always did.”
  • Kowalsky
    Kowalsky 26 May 2013 16: 02
    +1
    One hope is that those who are "offended for the power" will come to an agreement among themselves, and not as it is now - some rats in Kiev and Moscow, who are thinking of snatching at a deal and communing themselves into a Swiss account.
  • Vtel
    Vtel 26 May 2013 19: 07
    +2
    Take off - do not take off, we will each pull a blanket over himself, as if he would not take off. Our peoples want to be together, but the top does not flutter, well, God forbid everything will be.
  • papamahno
    papamahno 26 May 2013 20: 26
    -2
    Here is visual information, questions after - should not be.




    1. evil hamster
      evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 19
      -1
      Oga, it’s just right from the nameplate that TV3-117MVA-SBM1V and VK2500 are twin brothers, which they actually are. And yet yes the evil developer at his office. the site vilely declares that the assigned resource at VK2500 is the same as that of a TV3-117MVA-SBM1V, which has no analogue in the world, but here you are reptiles.
      1. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 01: 32
        -1
        Well then ... The numbers there are radically different and breakthrough.
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 46
          0
          You apparently are not able to understand what you yourself have laid out, what happens.
          1. papamahno
            papamahno 27 May 2013 22: 21
            0
            Quote: evil hamster
            You apparently are not able to understand what you yourself have laid out, what happens.

            ))
  • Corneli
    Corneli 26 May 2013 21: 45
    0
    I read the comments. if you delete all komenty with a yellow-black flag, looms like this:
    1.Ukrainians can’t be trusted, AGAIN all our money will be stolen and nothing will be done!
    2. "Motor-Sich" engines, old stuff and finally full bullshit.
    3. How much can you feed these "hangers-on" and thieves (Ukrainians)?
    4. It is necessary to build everything ourselves, and not again to feed "...." and in general we (in Russia) already have factories and engines in a hundred thousand miles steeper!
    5. Dumb ordering and self-promotion ukrov ...
    6. Ukry traitors and thieves, you need to do everything yourself! If it doesn’t work out, you have to do it with anyone, but not with Ukraine (finally, an unreliable country)!
    7. In Ukraine, in principle, they can’t do anything new or normal, they can use the current heritage of the USSR (that is, Russian) and throw and steal!
    8. Normal relations with ukr.proizvoditeli can not be by default, they will throw a palyube, if we (Russia), even cheto right now, we will build it, but "Motor Sich" finally needs to be ruined! Nefig them From us again steal money (selling their engines to those who need them) and make themselves monopolists!
    MB is a little and hyperbolized, and I have seen adequate comments, but for some reason there are not enough of them ... just get lost against the background of "Ukrainophiles". In general, I would like to see the MAXIMUM LESS articles about Ukraine (and technology and events) appear on this site, especially in the context of relations with Russia. Ches word, just got enough to read these "fecal" comments negative
    1. Joker
      Joker 26 May 2013 21: 55
      +2
      Teska, what do you want, propaganda makes itself felt, on our site there are so many negative articles about Ukraine that involuntarily you start with a negative and look at Ukrainians sad Yes, and your trolls on the Internet, too, are notably heating up this negative with their "moskals". It's okay, let's take offense at each other and make up. And about the motors, etc. To be honest, it's scary to do business with your enterprises, just think for yourself, lead a project together and then bam you went to the EU along with all the documentation, that's the reason. It's just that your government, like ... in a glass, dangles from side to side and cannot decide in any way, this, let's say, gives reason to think about the reliability of a partner. No one doubts your enterprises, only now they are controlled by the government, remember the scandal when some company did not give the profit to the government but carried out modernization at the factories, so your government almost ate them ... This is the problem, and this is how we love you, don't hesitate hi Negativity on the government is directed, not on the people.
      1. Akim
        Akim 27 May 2013 05: 56
        +1
        Quote: Joker
        lead lead together a project of some sort and then bam you left for the EU together with all the documentation,

        This is a fairy tale, at the level of what Khrushchev said: "In 20 years we will live under communism." Apparently you (and many others) do not understand the difference between an association and a membership.
    2. Apollo
      Apollo 26 May 2013 22: 06
      -1
      Quote: Corneli
      I read the comments. if you delete all komenty with a yellow-black flag, looms like this:


      I got acquainted with your provocative opus from 8 points. Here, because of people like you, Russia and Ukraine, they still cannot agree, which means that other states that were once members of the union. It is necessary to write more about the positive, and smooth out the negative aspects and solve together. In short, minus. negative
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 26 May 2013 22: 41
        +2
        Quote: Apollon
        I got acquainted with your provocative opus of 8 points. Here, because of people like you, Russia and Ukraine, they still cannot agree, which means that other states that were once members of the union. It is necessary to write more about the positive, and smooth out the negative aspects and solve together. In short, minus. negative

        Dear, did you see a lie in my comments? Hyperbole is yes, initially I thought of cramming direct quotes, with a sweetener, then I decided, but who needs it?
        "Because of people like me" - why? I did not insult Russia in any of my comments, did not call the Russians names, I was silent like a partisan about Russian problems (such as stealing and other current in Ukraine))). But I am to blame! belay Not those people who write such comments (taken as a basis), but I!)
        P.S. And personally from me you minus, for biased moderation ... In the comments to the same article I saw your warning about the misrepresentation of the name "Russia" (if "rashka" was there ... if even like that). But! At the same time, deathly silence from you, when in the same place, below it was written "Outskirts", "ukry", "okrayontsy" ... With the warning, I completely agree, but only somehow it is one-sided ... don't you find? Are you for the positive? And no "double standards"
        1. Apollo
          Apollo 26 May 2013 23: 01
          -2
          [quote = Corneli] I didn’t insult Russia in any of my comments, didn’t call names of Russians, kept silent as partisans, about Russian problems (like they steal and other current in Ukraine)). But it’s my fault! [/ quote]

          Again they piled everything in one pile. You just, with your comment, pour water into the mill of those who negatively relate to Ukraine, those whom I call Ukrainophobes.

          Next you write a quote

          P.S. And personally from me you minus, for biased moderation ... In the comments to the same article I saw your warning about the misrepresentation of the name "Russia" (if "rashka" was there ... if even like that). But! At the same time, deathly silence from you, when in the same place, below it was written "Outskirts", "ukry", "okrayontsy" ... With the warning, I completely agree, but only somehow it is one-sided ... don't you find? Are you for the positive? And no "double standards" [/ quote]

          and now look what you yourself wrote in your comment above, the hint is 6) .... (the first word) in abbreviation and in this connection you should be warned again. There are no double standards and there are no rules. VO rules apply to everyone in including me.
          I am responsible only for the moderation time when I am on the forum. I also have, by the way, family work, etc.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 26 May 2013 23: 23
            +4
            Quote: Apollon
            Again they piled everything in one pile. You just, with your comment, pour water into the mill of those who negatively relate to Ukraine, those whom I call Ukrainophobes.

            Perhaps I pour, that's just the "mill" was not built by me, and I did not particularly observe the "Svidomo" people here (a couple of chelolvek rather as an exception). Note, "pour" correctly, without nat. delirium and other delights. But surrender to me that even if I were silent, "Ukrainophobes" here would not have diminished, and besides, why should I be silent if they insult my country, for example? I respect my country, the people living in it (most)), but it turns out I have to read and sniff in two holes, or again I will start "pouring water" (
            Quote: Apollon
            and now look what you yourself wrote in your comment above, the hint is point 6) .... (the first word) in abbreviated form. There were no and no double standards. The VO rules apply to everyone, including me.

            I wrote this word-term because of how to relate to me (I’m Ukrainian))), but you don’t see anything similar about Russia there, in comments I try to write the self-names of other countries and peoples correctly, in order to avoid ...
            1. Apollo
              Apollo 26 May 2013 23: 44
              0
              Quote: Corneli
              This word-term, wrote because how to relate to me


              If you want to be respected, first of all avoid cuts at the mention of national affiliation. Then you will have full moral right to demand the same from others.
        2. Ivanovich47
          Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 04
          -7
          Dear, go to Ukrainian sites. There you will be in your .... environment. You yourself understand that Russia and Ukraine will never agree on anything. I tried to express my opinion on the Ukrainian website (UNIAN). They cheated, I had to leave. And you go away ...
          1. Apollo
            Apollo 26 May 2013 23: 48
            +4
            Quote: Ivanovich47
            Dear, go to Ukrainian sites.


            You are the same visitor as your opponent. He has the same rights and obligations as you.
            For your immodest and inappropriate advice to your opponent, catch the minus now from me.
      2. Apollo
        Apollo 26 May 2013 22: 43
        +2
        Quote: Apollon
        Short minus


        minus I put down by you probably dumbfounded, well Oleg (Corneli) I perfectly understood the essence of your comment. Are you willing or not summarize negative attitude towards Ukraine and issue it as an axiom.Although this is not so. In other words, your idea differs from what you wrote. You wanted to present as one, and the result of your comment turned out exactly the opposite.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 26 May 2013 23: 08
          +2
          Quote: Apollon
          minus put down by me I was probably dumbfounded

          No) I generally expected the minuses, this is an axiom)
          Quote: Apollon
          You voluntarily or involuntarily summarize the negative attitude towards Ukraine and issue it as an axiom.

          I wrote that post because I just got tired of this attitude and no more.
          Quote: Apollon
          Although this is not so.

          Let's say "not so" and I'm a liar. Let's not run far, remember my list and read:
          Quote: Warrawar
          Ukraine eats the last crumbs of the occupation heritage. All that is done there is junk of 30-50 years ago, it will soon irrevocably become obsolete, and nothing new will be created (since there is no money and is not expected).

          Point 7 ... at least already written after my post) ...
          We go along http://topwar.ru/28516-ukraina-zainteresovana-v-sovmestnom-proizvodstve-s-rf-sam
          oleta-an-124-vice-premer.html Read the first 10 comments
          First post: "Ragnarek (2) RU Yesterday, 09:59
          joint in the Ukrainian sense - Russia pays for everything "
          39 pluses, the hall applauds standing
          Further along the branch in the same vein ... everything is bad and suddenly:
          "gladiatorakz (4) UA Yesterday, 10:10
          Both Ukraine and Russia are interested in this project. Financial profit, industrial development, jobs, scientific development, etc. More such joint and mutually beneficial projects - more threads connecting our countries. "
          Just as you said: "We need to write more about the positive, and smooth out the negative moments and solve together." Result -9)))) wassat
          So maybe I wrote the truth? Easy to check
          1. Apollo
            Apollo 26 May 2013 23: 21
            0
            Quote: Corneli
            that I just got tired of such an attitude


            well, if you are fed up, then alas, I can’t help you in any way. Write the articles themselves and post them on the forum. Well, if you don’t have the skills to speak journalism like that, then there are many sites with positive information or articles about relationships Russia and Ukraine and which you could successfully post on the forum.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 26 May 2013 23: 38
              0
              Quote: Apollon
              well, if you are fed up, then alas, I can’t help you in any way. Write the articles themselves and post them on the forum. Well, if you don’t have the skills to speak journalism like that, then there are many sites with positive information or articles about relationships Russia and Ukraine and which you could successfully post on the forum.

              As if my proposal was already written):
              Quote: Corneli
              In general, I would like for MAXIMUM LESS articles on Ukraine (and technology and events) to appear on this site, especially in the context of relations with Russia.

              Actually, that’s why I’m at least a genius of journalism and a 20-fold recipient of the Pulitzer Prize, I would be afraid to write here somewhere:
              1. Affected relations between Ukraine and Russia, in absolutely any area, sphere of life
              2. Overview of technological or military achievements of Ukr. science, defense ...
              3. And indeed almost all the news related to Ukraine (as an exception, except perhaps for beaten participants in the next gay pride parade or something)
              Otherwise, the "law of the list" comes into effect ... And since I am not a troll and I am friendly to Russia, it would be unpleasant for me to read this
    3. Ivanovich47
      Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 16
      -3
      All that said Corneli sheer truth. I agree with him, Not only on this site, but also on other sites, not a word about Ukraine. For us Russians there is no such country. But you, Ukrainians about Russia, no gu-gu. Agreed !?
      1. Apollo
        Apollo 26 May 2013 23: 32
        +2
        Quote: Ivanovich47
        For us Russians there is no such country.


        and who authorized you to speak for everyone, the original situation has developed winked now I have to reconcile you, yeahhhh, you guys asked me however the task, you know, just no words already. If you yourself don’t agree, no one will do it for you.
  • papamahno
    papamahno 26 May 2013 22: 26
    -2
    Dry statement of all known srach:

    - If suddenly there will be production of the Ukrainian VK-2500 in Russia since 2015, to which the Russian Federation has 100% right, like Ukraine, both 100% each. Then, with the advent of VMA-SBM1V, a place for the Russian localized VK-2500 in the market with 30% worst performance may not be available.
    Do not forget that time will not stand still - VMA-SBM1V will soon receive an emergency regime of 1 hour.

    In fact, the news that Russian Helicopters decided not to lose at least their domestic market in the Russian Federation, having naturally conceded the world market for motorization and re-motorization of the Mi-8 (17,35) to Ukraine and Motor Sich.
    The news is actually about a qualitative leap of old and new helicopters, thanks to new nanotechnologies unique in the world of engine building. Exceed by 30% VMA-VK2500 - this is one and a half generation in terms of characteristics, not to mention the heat and highlands.


    http://www.ste.com.ua/index.php?hl=en&idd=catalog&catalog=64ba70fb1246f8193dd244

    4179f74f13
    1. PLO
      PLO 26 May 2013 22: 37
      +2
      good joke, especially about nanotechnology, I laughed
      and the pearl about how Russia is begging Ukraine to build a spaceport in general fire)
      1. papamahno
        papamahno 26 May 2013 22: 53
        -1
        Quote: olp
        good joke, especially about nanotechnology, I laughed

        There is such a joke, and it is called:
        - The one who laughs last with the 100% control of the Mi-Ka-8,17,28,35,53,33 engine market laughs well. And with VMA-SBM1V and beyond, everyone will laugh merrily with nanotechnology from dust wear and a combustion chamber - for Peru and Afghanistan. Not to mention the D-136, AI-450 and MS-500.

        Quote: olp
        and the pearl about how Russia is begging Ukraine to build a spaceport in general fire)

        You would have flown simpler and lower, otherwise it suddenly turns out that for the Russian media it’s quiet - a few days ago Rogozin flew to Kiev, and not for a turn. And there he asked both An-70 and An-124, and that Ukraine should supply the Russian Federation - refueling systems for the Vostochny spaceport, automatic launch and control systems, participation in the manufacture of a launch pad and rocket.
        - That's because the truth may turn out to be for you suddenly - who does and has. And who is asking and buying.
        1. PLO
          PLO 26 May 2013 23: 17
          0
          There is such a joke, and it is called:
          - The one who laughs last with the 100% control of the Mi-Ka-8,17,28,35,53,33 engine market laughs well. And with VMA-SBM1V and beyond, everyone will laugh merrily with nanotechnology from dust wear and a combustion chamber - for Peru and Afghanistan. Not to mention the D-136, AI-450 and MS-500.

          you do not understand, this is not a joke, but complete nonsense

          especially about Ukraine’s control of the engine market
          this control is mutual, Russia needs Ukrainian engines, Ukraine needs Russian helicopters, so market control is all a fairy tale, for Ukraine the Russian market is the largest and Ukraine could not, and cannot and cannot, dictate any of its conditions to Russia

          and even if the VK-2500 is now inferior to SBM1V, then in 2015 they are going to produce new VK-2500P / PS + TV7-117, in any case with the launch of this production, Russia will be able to guarantee complete independence from deliveries from Motor Sich, and then already a matter of technology



          You would have flown simpler and lower, otherwise it suddenly turns out that for the Russian media it’s quiet - a few days ago Rogozin flew to Kiev, and not for a turn. And there he asked both An-70 and An-124, and that Ukraine should supply the Russian Federation - refueling systems for the Vostochny spaceport, automatic launch and control systems, participation in the manufacture of a launch pad and rocket.
          - That's because the truth may turn out to be for you suddenly - who does and has. And who is asking and buying.

          read less yellow press
          financing of the An-70 project recently suspended MO Ukarina because the money was spent by Antonov inappropriately, while Russia fully invested the money in the project
          and if Rogozin flew Kiev then to ask "where are the planes and money Zin?"
          on the An-124 project, read fewer fairy tales, the resumption of production was postponed, at least until all aircraft in storage are put into operation

          for Ukraine to supply the Russian Federation - refueling systems for the Vostochny spaceport, automatic launch and control systems, participation in the manufacture of a launch pad and rocket.

          ha dreamer) come on proof, and I laugh again
          1. papamahno
            papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 23
            0
            [quote = olp]
            - All engines are Ukrainian-made, the rest is emotions.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 May 2013 23: 27
              -1
              You forgot to insert the word "bye". While Ukrainian.
            2. PLO
              PLO 26 May 2013 23: 29
              -1
              emotions is your enthusiastic nonsense about nanotechnology
              1. papamahno
                papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 38
                0
                And where should they be - nanotechnology?
                On helicopter engines, it is nanotechnology that gives those - a resource, an emergency mode and dust wear.
                Nanotechnology stealth paints, radar technology, nanotechnology armored steels and welding, etc. Higgs boson at CERN - discovered by Ukrainian sensors, it's from fresh.
                1. evil hamster
                  evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 37
                  -1
                  And the pyramids were built by ancient Ukrainians.
            3. evil hamster
              evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 35
              0
              Are you really right?
          2. papamahno
            papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 35
            0
            [quote = olp]
            - All engines are Ukrainian-made, the rest is emotions.

            In Vostochny, Russia at least asks us to participate in refueling and automatic start systems. There is nothing new, all this has always been done in Ukraine.
            Here is your veiled news:
            http://www.vz.ru/economy/2013/5/24/634176.html

            The superheavy rocket launched the Russian missile in joint development six months ago. Under this rocket in the Russian Federation they started talking about new lunar programs, and since there are no rockets, the program was announced the other day not earlier than in 10 years.

            - All corpus of facts. yes
            1. PLO
              PLO 26 May 2013 23: 42
              -1
              emotions is your enthusiastic nonsense about nanotechnology

              In Vostochny, Russia at least asks us to participate in refueling and automatic start systems. There is nothing new, all this has always been done in Ukraine.
              Here is your veiled news:
              http://www.vz.ru/economy/2013/5/24/634176.html

              went into denial?
              give proof where Russia asks Ukraine to build a Vostochny spaceport?
              1. papamahno
                papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 59
                +1
                What surprises you? So far, all the tales about the "remotorization of the An-148", "VK-2500", "LV control systems" and so on are dozens of fairy tales.
                Vostochny is waiting for at least Ukrainian Azovmash refueling systems, automatic start-up and control - Kommunara and Kielelectropribor.
                And in Shuvalovo they are building a plant - a large-site assembly of Ukrainian engines and their repair.


                Like it or not, it is. yes
                1. evil hamster
                  evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 49
                  -1
                  Oga and TV7-117 will also see Ukrainian, oh, these tales, oh these storytellers.
                  1. papamahno
                    papamahno 27 May 2013 22: 23
                    0
                    Quote: evil hamster
                    Oga and TV7-117 will also see Ukrainian, oh, these tales, oh these storytellers.

                    Sarkisov has long been offering - they showed him that it’s exactly that TV7 that isn’t.
                    1. evil hamster
                      evil hamster 27 May 2013 22: 56
                      +1
                      Koteg sleep, TV7 sent for installation on Mi38 OP3, and you can continue to stay in your wet dreams
        2. evil hamster
          evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 34
          0
          Quote: papamahno
          Mi-Ka-8,17,28,35,53,33

          You are confused in the numbers, but I see it is not uncommon, do not reflect, continue to broadcast;)
          Quote: papamahno
          Ukraine supplied the Russian Federation - refueling systems for the Vostochny spaceport, automatic launch and control systems, and participation in the manufacture of a launch pad and rocket.
          And Rogozin did not beg for the rocket itself, didn’t it?
          1. papamahno
            papamahno 27 May 2013 01: 42
            -1
            Quote: evil hamster
            And Rogozin did not beg for the rocket itself, didn’t it?

            He asked, but not Rogozin - Putin, but you could not see strategic ones - we refused. As you say here, the Russian Federation cannot be dependent, so do it yourself. wink
            1. evil hamster
              evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 51
              -2
              Gee gee gee KOTOBOT LOGIN CLOWN
    2. evil hamster
      evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 21
      0
      Thank you neighing over all points, 30% excellence and nanotechnology delivered especially, continue you go to success.
      1. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 01: 36
        -2
        Quote: evil hamster
        Thank you neighing over all points, 30% excellence and nanotechnology delivered especially, continue you go to success.

        You can’t even imagine how we are laughing at you, but we simply don’t show it. It’s so funny to see you without anything and nothing, but with show-offs - it’s never cooler.
        - We continue to read you, write escho ...
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 45
          -2
          Well, existing in a fictional world where Mi-Ka-8,17,28,35,53,33 fly is probably a lot of funny things, but maybe there are substances, but don’t worry, keep on having fun and you still have to do it smile
  • Warrawar
    Warrawar 26 May 2013 22: 54
    -2
    Ukraine eats the last crumbs of the occupation heritage. All that is done there is junk of 30-50 years ago, soon it will become hopelessly out of date, and nothing new will be created (since there is no money and never will be).
    Ukraine is in agony and we must accelerate this process.
    1. papamahno
      papamahno 26 May 2013 22: 59
      +2
      Quote: Warrawar
      Ukraine eats the last crumbs of the occupation heritage. All that is done there is junk of 30-50 years ago, soon it will become hopelessly outdated, and nothing new will be created (since there is no money and is not expected).

      - You say nonsense, which knowing the topic - there is actually 180 degrees, not how you envy.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 22: 57
    -3
    Quote:In fact, the news that Russian Helicopters decided not to lose at least their domestic market in the Russian Federation, having naturally conceded the world market for motorization and re-motorization of the Mi-8 (17,35) to Ukraine and Motor Sich.
    A statement by a famous doctor: I ask you for an appointment, you need to measure your body temperature
    1. papamahno
      papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 10
      -1
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Quote:In fact, the news that Russian Helicopters decided not to lose at least their domestic market in the Russian Federation, having naturally conceded the world market for motorization and re-motorization of the Mi-8 (17,35) to Ukraine and Motor Sich.
      A statement by a famous doctor: I ask you for an appointment, you need to measure your body temperature


      Are you against acquiring unique new qualities of Russian-made helicopters? Sorry, but you have nothing but envy, because at the KhkliRush-2013 exhibit no victorious reports were made about the production of engines in the Russian Federation. Even more - the order for 1000 Ukrainian engines from last year, at the moment has changed in the direction already 1500.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 26 May 2013 23: 12
        -1
        And you do not tell me which engines are purchased?
        1. papamahno
          papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 22
          -3
          I have a question?
          - The contracts for the final assembly VMA, part of the VMA are assembled from Zaporozhye and a digital control unit is screwed to them, and it is called in the media - the Russian VK-2500. VK-2500 go to the new MVT, Mi-28 and Ka.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 26 May 2013 23: 34
            -2
            You see, you can’t even completely assemble the engine. And why puff up? Yes, during the collapse of the USSR, you got the main production facilities in this segment. Klimov's parent company has only small-scale production.
            But a fundamental decision was made to get away from this dependence. The production buildings are being completed. In a dozen years, Motor Sich products will be purchased only at dumping prices by those who need to repair decrepit Mi-8
            1. papamahno
              papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 47
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              You see, you can't even fully assemble the engine. And why puff up? Yes, with the collapse of the USSR, you got the main production facilities in this segment. Klimov's parent company has only small-scale production, but a fundamental decision was made to get rid of this dependence. The production buildings are being completed. In a dozen years, Motor Sich products will be purchased only at dumping prices by those who need to repair decrepit Mi-8

              - Where is that said? The engine is ready and for fastening to them the Russian electronic unit. We can, you are not. There is no production at Klimov of helicopter engines in general.
              We have not only power for this type - we have produced, developed and developed dozens of types of different engines, and with ship and modifications there are more than a hundred types and their modifications.
              What will happen in ten years - write then, if of course they will still produce Mi-8 - from memory, by 2025 they should close it. In the meantime, all the quality and success of the Mi-8/17 is provided by Ukrainian engines, and be so kind as to be grateful and grateful.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 26 May 2013 23: 59
                -1
                Quote: papamahno
                The engine is ready and for fastening to them the Russian electronic unit. We can, you are not. There is no production at Klimov of helicopter engines in general.

                Of course not. At the end of last year, only the production buildings themselves were completed. There works before the start of mass production for another two years.

                However you electronic unit already do not trust to fasten. Like this. They are afraid of Klimovskys to provide you with their new developments. No guarantees.
                1. papamahno
                  papamahno 27 May 2013 00: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  However you electronic unit already do not trust to fasten. Like this. They are afraid of Klimovskys to provide you with their new developments. No guarantees.

                  ))
                  - There is a lot of pathos, in fact - close to zero. I repeat, a block is screwed onto a ready-made Ukrainian VMA, for victorious reports - "we are making something unique." The bobbin does not give any advantages, but let's leave your topic without comment, women don't touch the "sacred" in the "nanotechnology" for the Russian army.
                  But they are exported only, I repeat - only Ukrainian engines of full Ukrainian assembly. This is on the Russian side - it removes responsibility for the engine, on the part of the customer it is a choice of quality, but they choose the Ukrainian assembly.
                  What is neutral overall beneficial? - Sometimes it is profitable for us to sell Ukrainian engines to some political markets under the guise of "Russian" ones, since their potential opponents are Ukrainian ones. And the wolves are safe and the sheep are fed ... wink
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 27 May 2013 00: 20
                    -1
                    Quote: papamahno
                    There is a lot of pathos, in fact - close to zero. I repeat, a block is screwed onto the finished Ukrainian VMA, for victorious reports - "we are making something unique." The bobbin does not give any advantages, but let's leave your topic without comment, women do not touch the "sacred" in the "nanotechnology" for the Russian army.

                    It is in this phrase of yours that there is a lot of pathos. However, the essence is not enough. "Victory Relation"? What for? After all, everyone knows that we do not manufacture helicopter engines yet.

                    Quote: papamahno
                    on the part of the customer - this is the choice of quality, but they choose the Ukrainian assembly.

                    Is there another assembly? Although yes, there is. The same Poles prefer to buy from a third party and repair engines for their Mis themselves.


                    Quote: papamahno
                    What is neutral overall beneficial? - Sometimes it is profitable for us to sell Ukrainian engines to some political markets under the guise of "Russian" ones, since their potential opponents are Ukrainian ones. And the wolves are safe and the sheep are fed ...

                    But this is sheer nonsense. Are they idiots? Do not know about the lack of production capacity in Russia?

                    I beg you, do not consider yourself very smart, and the rest are not far-off, which you can hang any noodles on your ears.
          2. evil hamster
            evil hamster 27 May 2013 01: 57
            -1
            Uha ha ha kotek, but you’ll be stupid, admit you’re above Pindish about the unrealistic advantages of VMA over VK2500 and right there you say that it is nothing more than VMA + Russian control unit, well, at least sometimes you think with your head
            1. papamahno
              papamahno 27 May 2013 22: 24
              -2
              Quote: evil hamster
              Uha ha ha kotek, but you’ll be stupid, admit you’re above Pindish about the unrealistic advantages of VMA over VK2500 and right there you say that it is nothing more than VMA + Russian control unit, well, at least sometimes you think with your head

              - This is one and the same thing, that is - Zaporizhzhya developments of 20 years ago.
              1. evil hamster
                evil hamster 27 May 2013 22: 59
                +1
                You don’t even know how to read, let’s push back to cadit about the spaceport or about missiles there.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 May 2013 23: 09
    +1
    No joint work with Ukrainians. Anyway, or cheated or steal. Russia can independently develop and build modern helicopters. Ukrainians, why are you glued ...? To cheat and steal ???
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 26 May 2013 23: 16
      0
      You just have to protect your intellectual property more strictly. And that’s it.
      Although yes, Ukraine is a very problematic state in terms of defense-technical cooperation, and Russia should protect itself by reducing its dependence on them.
      1. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 01: 09
        -2
        Quote: Spade
        You just have to protect your intellectual property more strictly.

        - How? With certificates all and rights in the safe Motor Sich.

        Quote: Spade
        Ukraine is a very problematic state in terms of defense-technical cooperation

        - This is the RF spoiled defect.

        Quote: Spade
        Russia should protect itself by reducing its dependence on them.

        We hear this from 93 years. But this is of course your rule, yes. You can not buy, if of course you can. smile
    2. papamahno
      papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 19
      -1
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      т

      Sorry, but Oboronprom has ordered 1000 engines for years to come. Russian helicopters are interested in the VMA-SBM1V and are asking for it themselves, in the spirit of the fact that the tests of the Mi-8MVT5-1 with SBM1V have been successfully completed in the Russian Federation. Who is "glued to whom".
      - Or are you against the fact that Peru, for example, orders more than a dozen new Mi-17s with VMA-SBM1V engines unique to the mountains? Or are you against the possibility of a larger US order for the Afghan army?
      Your position is deconstructive even from the position of cheers-patriotism, since TV3-117 in the Russian Federation variants does not produce at all. Do you want to bury the last living branch of the Russian Federation - helicopter industry?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 26 May 2013 23: 24
        -1
        Once again, what engines are you purchasing specifically? No crap about "interested and asking and at the same time glued."
        1. papamahno
          papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 39
          0
          Repeat:
          - The contracts for the final assembly VMA, part of the VMA are assembled from Zaporozhye and a digital control unit is screwed to them at the Klimov plant, and it is called in the media - the Russian VK-2500. VK-2500 go to the new MVT, Mi-28 and Ka.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 26 May 2013 23: 41
            0
            A link, please. And not "veiled"
            1. papamahno
              papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 54
              0
              Quote: Spade
              A link, please. And not "veiled"

              - Are you sure there are links to everything? This is ridiculous, and the level of office forum managers.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 27 May 2013 00: 04
                0
                Not sure if there are links.

                However, I wonder where you got such confidence in your words?
                1. papamahno
                  papamahno 27 May 2013 00: 12
                  -1
                  You know, there are fewer emotions of pseudo-patriotism and more constructive - and it will be simpler and better.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 27 May 2013 00: 27
                    -1
                    "Constructive" - ​​not to remove the noodles from the ears?
                    1. papamahno
                      papamahno 27 May 2013 01: 05
                      -1
                      Build helicopters and be thankful to those thanks to whom these helicopters still fly and buy.
                      - Otherwise, it would be like in the aviation industry.
      2. abc_alex
        abc_alex 27 May 2013 17: 28
        0
        We have already said above: it is necessary to distinguish between orders for the Russian army and orders for Soviet-made military helicopters for other countries, as well as orders for helicopters of the Russian special services.
        For the army, only 100% localized equipment is purchased. No options. Accordingly, helicopters will go to the Russian army only with Russian engines.
        But for the needs of the FSB or the Ministry of Internal Affairs with the Ministry of Emergencies, for the needs of some ministries, even for defense enterprises working for export, Ukrainian engines can be purchased.

        Therefore, I see no reason to swing sabers.
        After today's Maidan, Ukraine’s defense order is closed for today's Ukraine.
        But this does not imply a complete breakdown of all commercial contracts with Motor Sich for equipping non-military Russian or modernizing foreign military helicopters at Russian plants.
  • papamahno
    papamahno 26 May 2013 23: 52
    0
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: evil hamster
    Laser pointer as ersatz night sight

    And what's the problem? If only there was an efficiency. Together with the French thermal imager gives a good result at night.


    At the MI-24PU GI, a laser pointer alongside a very convenient aiming on the battlefield showed another new quality - the pilot pointer made it easier for pilots to fly at night at very low altitudes with enveloping terrain to fix the horizon.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 27 May 2013 00: 06
      -2
      How is that? Do you understand what you wrote?
      1. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 00: 13
        -2
        I will try to find.
      2. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 00: 50
        -2
        This is the first version of PU1, it shows the operation of the sight at night in night vision goggles without taking your eyes off the battlefield, and this helps for the "real battlefield" mode





        - I didn’t find a video about the help of the laser pointer (I won’t search anymore - like any other links), the essence is that the LCC shines on the bottom, which helps the pilot to see the horizon line and the Earth’s surface. This is not a technical task, this property was discovered during the pilot's flight when piloting in difficult weather conditions at night.
    2. evil hamster
      evil hamster 27 May 2013 02: 03
      +1
      And we thought it was so out of poverty, and that's how it is - an epic smile
      1. papamahno
        papamahno 27 May 2013 22: 28
        -1
        Quote: evil hamster
        And we thought it was so out of poverty, and that's how it is - an epic smile

        - That even Ukrainian modernization is the best of all combat Russian helicopters, approaching the best examples, better than any Russian. And by criterion, price / effectiveness is the best in the world.

        - Not worth it.
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 27 May 2013 23: 03
          +2
          Quote: papamahno
          - That even Ukrainian modernization is the best of all combat Russian helicopters, approaching the best examples, better than any Russian. And by criterion, price / effectiveness is the best in the world.
          Oooh tin rzhunimaga. Apache Longbow nervously huddled in a secluded corner and trembling: is there on the horizon no analogue in the world of Mi24P modernization with a laser pointer laughing laughing laughing Koteg you, as usual in your repertoire - are unproven nonsense.
          1. papamahno
            papamahno 28 May 2013 00: 45
            0
            Tell It to the Indians with your Russian span on the Apache and our proposals for the Mi-24 ...
            ))
            - The Russians are out of your business, which is natural ...
          2. papamahno
            papamahno 28 May 2013 00: 55
            -1
            - Can you teach me how to fly helicopters, how do you sell modern weapons to you, engines and systems?
            “For you have blown away your nothingness — which never happened.” Your niche is our unique Ukrainian engine, with yours screwed to ours - Soviet fuselages. And that’s all ...


            - The rest is not about you ...
            1. Warrawar
              Warrawar 28 May 2013 05: 03
              0
              Your engines were developed in Soviet times on Klimov.
  • papamahno
    papamahno 28 May 2013 01: 13
    0
    Everything will be even better ...



  • Warrawar
    Warrawar 28 May 2013 04: 51
    0
    Kotobot - a rare inadequate / Russophobe / Bendera / Svidomo Ukrainian
    http://kotobood.livejournal.com/
  • Figvam
    Figvam 28 May 2013 14: 54
    0
    The article is a direct fairy tale in reality!
    would realize these intentions
    and everyone would be happy
  • Splin
    Splin April 2 2014 11: 20
    -1
    THERE WILL NOT BE ANYTHING MORE JOINT!