On the hypothetical duel between the armored cruisers Izumo and Bayan

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On the hypothetical duel between the armored cruisers Izumo and Bayan

In the previous article, I examined the maneuvering zones of Izumo and Bayan in a hypothetical situation in which both cruisers' gunners had high-quality armor-piercing shells. The results were as follows: Bayan's 8-inch/45 model 1892 guns could penetrate Izumo's citadel at a range of 10-13 cable lengths, and at a range of 12-15 cable lengths in the areas of the main battery turret feed pipes, where there were no coal pits. Meanwhile, Izumo could penetrate Bayan's citadel at a range of 16-18 cable lengths with 200/100 mm shells.

Here, however, it's important to note an important detail. We know for certain that the Bayan's 8-inch turret feeder pipes were located outside the citadel, formed by 200mm/100mm armor plates. This is less clear with the Izumo, however, as reliable armor diagrams are lacking. Nevertheless, most descriptions agree that the length of the Izumo's 178mm citadel was approximately 84 meters. Here, while preparing the previous article, I made a measurement error, for which I apologize to the esteemed reader: a citadel of this length covered not only the feeder pipes but also the magazines of the 8-inch turrets. The latter, of course, gave the Izumo an advantage, as its magazines could be penetrated at best with 15 kbt, while the Bayan's could be penetrated with any reasonable thickness for 1904-05. ranges of use of armor-piercing shells.

On the other hand, the Bayan's advantage was that its 8-inch gun magazines were located not behind the armor belt, but "one floor below." So, if the citadel were breached, a Bayan shell would explode in the Izumo's ammunition magazine, while an Izumo shell would explode in the room above the Bayan's.

The Izumo's main battery turrets, feeder pipes, and casemates, with their six-inch armor, were penetrated by Russian eight-inch shells at 18-22 cable lengths, but where the feeder pipes were protected by 127 mm armor, the penetration was at 22-26 cable lengths. As for the Bayan, its turrets and feeder pipes, where they were 150 mm thick, would have been penetrated at 21-25 cable lengths.

Interestingly, at a range of 18-20 cable lengths—less distances were rare during the Russo-Japanese War—both cruisers would have been on almost equal terms using conventional armor-piercing shells. They could penetrate virtually everything except the citadel, which could only be penetrated by a perfect hit on the Bayan. However, the Japanese had a higher chance of a successful hit due to the superior armor penetration of their shells.

About Japanese armor-piercing shells


But all of the above calculations bear no relation to the realities of the Russo-Japanese War, as Japanese sailors did not use classic armor-piercing shells in 1904–05. The ammunition the Japanese called armor-piercing was equipped with Ijuin base fuses, which had a detonation time of approximately 0,005 seconds after impact with the plate, like conventional high-explosive shells. These fuses operated similarly to the domestic Model 1894 fuses; the only noticeable difference was the method of disengaging the safety catch.

In general, both the Ijuin fuse and the Model 1894 tube would detonate a shell 1–2 meters behind the armor if the shell retained sufficient energy and, consequently, velocity after penetration. If the shell's energy was sufficient for a close penetration, but the shell itself was not destroyed, then its detonation would occur as it penetrated the armor.

It's also interesting that the shells considered armor-piercing by the Japanese had comparatively thin walls. For example, the 386-kg, 12-inch Japanese shell, according to V. Polomoshnov, contained 19,28 kg of explosive, while even the remarkable Russian 12-inch shell, model 1911, weighing much more (470,9 kg), contained only 12,8 kg. While the Japanese shell could certainly penetrate armor of a certain thickness, its casing was still too weak for a good armor-piercing shell due to the excessive chamber size for the explosive. And if the shimoza didn't detonate upon impact, one could consider the Japanese armor-piercing shells to be good semi-armor-piercing.

However, shimoza shells apparently often exploded immediately upon impact with an obstacle, be it the side plating, the rigging, or the armor. In the latter case, detonation occurred before the shell had time to penetrate the armor, causing the explosion to occur at the armor rather than during its passage. I can't explain this "behavior" of Japanese shells other than the special properties of shimoza shells. But even if I'm wrong, it doesn't change the fact that, for the most part, Japanese shells tended to function similarly to high-explosive shells later developed, with a "momentary" fuse that initiated the detonation upon impact with the obstacle. This, in all likelihood, was the reason why Japanese shells often failed to penetrate even thin armor.

About High-Explosive Shells and the "Half-Caliber" Rule


Many people interested in the navy history, know that domestic "post-Tsushima" high-explosive shells were capable of penetrating armor up to half their own caliber. Indeed, the 1907 and 1911 model shells possessed this property, and pre-Tsushima Russian high-explosive shells were apparently also capable. There is no definitive proof, but the Japanese repeatedly recorded cases of our shells penetrating armor half the caliber, passing through intact, and at ranges where armor-piercing shells should not have been used. In one case, even half a caliber was not the limit for a Russian shell: the 102mm armor of the Shikishima in the Battle of Tsushima was penetrated by a 6-inch shell from a range of approximately 30 kbt, without causing a burst.

These are all facts, but unfortunately, they often lead to a completely wrong conclusion. Specifically, that during the Russo-Japanese War, any high-explosive shell from any country could penetrate armor half its caliber thick.
The fact is that this characteristic of the Russian Model 1907 high-explosive shells didn't emerge out of nowhere; it was a consequence of the technical specifications given to the designers. To achieve this, the shell designers had to reduce the explosive mass somewhat, and, starting in 1908, introduce a special procedure—heating the shell's warhead.

Unfortunately, I don't know by how much the explosive content of the 1907 model shells was reduced, but the explosive content of the 12-inch high-explosive shells of 1911 was 58,8–61,5 kg instead of a possible 70,6 kg (12,5–13% instead of 15%). I would like to caution my esteemed readers: you should not directly compare the percentage of explosives in shells from different countries, as it will depend, among other things, on the length of the shell in calibers, and this dependence is not linear. For example, in the 12-inch high-explosive shell of 1907, despite efforts to ensure maximum explosiveness, it was possible to achieve only 8,5% explosive content.

But for the “pre-Tsushima” high-explosive shells, it seems that such a task was not set, at least not for armor penetration tests during delivery. the fleet These munitions were not tested accurately. However, Professor E.A. Berkalov, author of the textbook "Design of Naval Artillery Shells" and many other works, and one of the leading Soviet experts of his time on this subject, pointed out that:

The wall thickness of the high-explosive projectile is the same as that of the armor-piercing projectile and is left almost the same throughout the entire body, from which one can conclude that the goal was to give the projectile some strength when acting on armor.

Interestingly, when evaluating the drawings of the "pre-Tsushima" high-explosive shells, E. A. Berkalov does not consider them to be high-explosive, let alone semi-armor-piercing:

...a projectile which, according to our concepts, cannot, in any case, be classified as a high-explosive projectile or even a semi-armor-piercing projectile, but represents a peculiar intermediate type of projectile.

In fact, this isn't surprising, because even after reloading with TNT, which had a higher density than smokeless powder or pyroxylin, the explosive content of the 12-inch "Dotsushima" shell didn't exceed 3,7%. This was even less than the Japanese armor-piercing shell's 5%.

Typically, when evaluating pre-Tsushima high-explosive shells, we rely on the "Resolution of the Naval Technical Committee to the Chairman of the Investigative Commission on the Battle of Tsushima," which cited the quality of the steel as the primary reason for the low explosive content. The MTC, however, failed to mention that while the country knew how to make good steel, it used it to produce armor-piercing shells, but they wanted to get high-explosive shells cheaper, which is why they chose to use simpler steel. However, had the MTC mentioned this, they would have had to explain the reasons why its leadership was forced to cut corners. Let's not forget that the Ministry of Finance, having allocated funds for ships, categorically stinted on shells for them.

Be that as it may, MTK attributed everything to the quality of the steel, while E.A. Berkalov also saw in the drawings an attempt to provide the "pre-Tsushima" high-explosive shells with some armor penetration. This is quite likely true and fully explains MTK's decision not to equip the "pre-Tsushima" high-explosive shells with "especially sensitive tubes," but instead to use double impact tubes (Brinka).

But if E.A. Berkalov is correct, it follows that the "pre-Tsushima" high-explosive shells, even at the design stage, did not have the maximum explosive content possible for the steel used for their manufacture. And the ability to penetrate moderately thick armor was factored into these shells' design.

Whether this was true or not, I can't say. But, in any case, it's quite clear that the domestic "Dotsushima" high-explosive shells were a completely unique type of ammunition, completely unrelated to high-explosive shells. Therefore, their capabilities cannot be projected onto the typical high-explosive shells of other countries.

From the above, the following conclusion can be drawn. Classic high-explosive shells of the era could not penetrate armor half their caliber, unless this requirement was specified by the designers during their development. This conclusion is supported by tests in 1890, during which French sailors discovered that 60 mm of armor was sufficient to protect against 164 mm steel high-explosive shells.

Of course, any high-explosive shell of that era with a base tube and explosive that didn't immediately detonate upon impact with an obstacle was capable of penetrating armor of some thickness. But exactly what thickness depended on the design, the steel used, and so on.

On the Bayan's resistance to Japanese armor-piercing and high-explosive shells


Due to the nature of Japanese shells, the Bayan was exceptionally well protected. Its entire main armor belt, conning tower, 8-inch turrets, and feed pipes provided virtually absolute protection not only from 6-8-inch shells, but even from 10-12-inch shells. This statement also applies to the comparatively weak section of the cruiser's bow turret feed pipe, which had only 60 mm of armor behind the 60 mm upper belt. Although such protection was weak against a classic armor-piercing shell, it was quite adequate against Japanese ammunition. Even a 12-inch Japanese shell would normally detonate upon impact with the upper armor belt, and the 60 mm of protection the feed pipe provided from its fragments was quite sufficient. It is noted that this section could have been damaged by a shell flying over the upper edge of the armor belt and penetrating the deck.


But the whole point is that a Japanese shell on such a trajectory would likely have exploded upon impact with the deck, and again, the 60mm feed pipe would have been reduced to fragments. Even if this hadn't happened, 60mm of armor provided excellent protection against Japanese shells of 6-8 inch caliber and was quite capable of withstanding even larger caliber shells. To see this, one need only look at the damage to the 50,8mm armor plate of the battleship Retvizan, sustained in the battle of July 28, 1904.


The shell that struck the ship was estimated to be 10-12 inches long, but cracks in the armor clearly indicate that the impact behind the armor was minimal. The impact occurred in the area of ​​the conductor's mess room, and the damage report noted that "some asbestos panels and furniture" were broken in this room.

Based on the above, it can be concluded that both the upper armor belt and casemates, 60 mm thick, provided ample protection against Japanese shells of 6-8 inches at any combat range. Generally, a hit from such shells could cause some damage to the armor plate, but without any behind-the-armor impact.

Nevertheless, the Bayan certainly had its vulnerabilities. Three of them.

Roofs of casemates. Their 15mm armor was too weak to withstand the impact of a Japanese shell, and it was expected that the shell would explode as it penetrated the armor. Such a hit could have sent a hail of shrapnel into the casemate, potentially disabling the gun itself and its crew. However, such a strike had virtually no chance of causing anything more serious—the 6-inch shell casings and 75mm rounds stored in the casemate were relatively immune to such impacts. Even the ignition of one or two 6-inch rounds could not have led to catastrophic damage to the ship.

"Naked" food. It would certainly have been better to armor it with at least 60-mm armor plates, but this was not done, and approximately 20,7 meters of the Bayan's waterline was exposed to high-explosive shells. This is an unfortunate shortcoming, but it should not be overstated—the 50-mm armor deck located below the waterline (30 mm of armor steel and 2 x 10 mm steel plates) guaranteed the impermeability of the steering system to shells of 6-8 inch caliber. At the same time, as the battle of January 27, 1904, demonstrated, the cofferdams that protected the unarmored part of the stern worked quite well—when a 6-inch Japanese shell exploded in one of these cofferdams, it did not cause flooding of the aft compartments.

But even if we disregard cofferdams, we mustn't forget that hitting unarmored ends didn't always result in damage that would reduce the combat potential of Russian ships. A good example is the photo of the damage sustained by the armored cruiser Gromoboy in the battle of August 1, 1904.


The holes were huge, but they had no effect on the cruiser's combat capability.

Lack of armored chimneys and armored grates. The latter protected the boilers from shrapnel penetration from shells exploding in the funnels. For Japanese cruisers, this was a viable, practical way to slow down the Bayan. However, strictly speaking, the presence of armored grates only reduced the likelihood of damage to the propulsion system, which would force the ship to slow down, rather than eliminating it entirely.

Based on the above, it can be concluded that Izumo had virtually no chance of inflicting decisive damage on Bayan at any combat distance.

On the Izumo's resistance to Russian armor-piercing and high-explosive shells


Let's first determine at what range the Bayan would have used high-explosive shells. The Izumo had a maximum range of 65 cables with its 8-inch guns, but it would hardly have sought to engage at such a distance. It's reasonable to assume that the Japanese would have opened the engagement at 55 cables, but would have then sought to close and engage at 30-40 cables. However, the Bayan is faster than the Izumo, making it capable of dictating the latter's firing range.

At the same time, for the 1st Pacific Squadron, the distance for switching to armor-piercing shells was regulated by the order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Pacific Ocean Fleet, Vice-Admiral S. O. Makarov, dated March 4, 1904, No. 21. According to it, switching to armor-piercing shells was permitted (but not mandatory) from the following distances:

1. For guns 10–12 dm — 25 kbt;

2. For 8 dm guns - 20 kbt;

3. For 6 dm guns - 15 kbt;

4. For 120 mm guns - 10 kbt.

But, apparently, the specified ranges were prescribed even before S. O. Makarov, since in the battle on January 27, 1904, the Bayan switched to armor-piercing shells when the distance to the target was reduced to 19 cables.

As for the 2nd Pacific Fleet, the transition distance to armor-piercing shells was not regulated for 8-inch guns, and for 6-inch and 10-12-inch guns, it was set 5 cable lengths shorter than for the 1st Pacific Fleet. It should be assumed that if Z.P. Rozhestvensky's ships had carried 8-inch/45-inch guns, they would have been assigned a transition distance of 15 cable lengths. However, since the Bayan was not listed under Z.P. Rozhestvensky, we will assume that the Bayan would begin firing armor-piercing shells at the Izumo at precisely 20 cable lengths, and until then, she would be firing high-explosive shells.

Let's look again at the distances from which Japanese armor was penetrated by armor-piercing shells from the 8-inch/45 guns mounted on the Bayan.


At a distance of 30–50 cables, Izumo was vulnerable to:

1. The bow and stern ends of the cruiser;

2. Two open-mounted 6-inch guns on the upper deck;

3. Roofs of the casemates of 6-inch guns.

Bow and stern ends. The Japanese could have had a multitude of problems with them. If a Russian 8-inch shell hit the narrow strip of 89 mm armor belt protruding above the water, it would have penetrated it at virtually any range. In the worst-case scenario, the shell would have exploded as it passed through the plate, and it's unclear how much worse it would have been for the Izumo, as such an explosion would have damaged the armor plate more severely and allowed water to enter the ship more easily. On the other hand, the impact of the shrapnel had a good chance of damaging the bulkheads and lower deck, threatening serious flooding all the way to the carapace deck.



Shell hits above the armor belt also posed a risk to the Izumo. Both 8-inch and 6-inch Russian shells would explode deep within the hull, creating a relatively narrow cone of fragments in the direction of the shell's trajectory. Given the shell's angle of impact, this cone would tend to strike the opposite side just above the 89-mm belt, very close to the waterline, allowing water to enter the Izumo's hull even if the entry hole was high enough above the waterline to prevent flooding. The consequences of such flooding were demonstrated by the example of the Asama, which became the "lucky" owner of a 1.5-meter trim by the stern, despite the armor at the end not being penetrated.

At a range of 30–40 cable lengths, the danger increased even more. At this point, a Russian shell had a good chance of not only penetrating the 89mm armor but also exploding as it penetrated the hull deck, which could cause flooding below it.

Of course, such damage didn't threaten the Izumo's destruction. However, a bow or stern tilt would have reduced the cruiser's speed, made it more difficult to fire her guns, and thus, of course, to some extent reduced her ability to inflict damage on the enemy.

It's noteworthy that the Izumo's ends were far more vulnerable to Bayan shells than Bayan's were to Izumo's. Bayan's vulnerable section, though relatively so, was the 20,7-meter-long, unprotected section of her stern. Izumo's bow and stern, outside the protection of her 178-mm belt, were 38,05 meters long.

Two open-mounted 6-inch guns. This is simple—their 76,2 mm shields could be penetrated by an 8-inch high-explosive shell at any reasonable range. But what's worse is the relatively small size of the shield, leaving some of the crew unprotected, as well as the need to store ammunition for the guns openly on the upper deck. Due to the above, this artillery could be disabled even without a direct hit to the gun or its shield.

Roofs and side walls of casemates. The Izumo fared just as badly with them as the Bayan did - the experience of naval battles during the Russo-Japanese War showed that the 25,4 mm roof of the Japanese casemates could be penetrated by almost anything.

Thus, in the Battle of Tsushima, 12-inch Russian shells penetrated the Mikasa's casemate roofs twice, and once, a 6-inch shell penetrated it (at a distance of approximately 22-30 cables). Moreover, the Japanese reported that this six-inch shell did not explode during penetration of the armor, but rather penetrated it first and only then exploded. However, to be fair, it should be noted that the casemate roof penetrated by the 6-inch shell had previously been hit by a 12-inch shell. During the battle of August 1, 1904, ammunition exploded in the casemate of the cruiser Iwate, although the accepted theory is that the explosion was caused by an 8-inch shell that penetrated the roof of the upper starboard casemate.

All of the above does not mean, of course, that the roofs of Japanese casemates were easily penetrated by a 6-inch shell. During the same battle on August 1, 1904, between the cruisers H. Kamimura and K.P. Jessen, there were frequent instances of Russian shells of this caliber ricocheting off the decks of Japanese cruisers, meaning they could also ricochet off the casemate roofs. However, the latter were quite vulnerable to Russian 6-inch and 8-inch shells at ranges of 30-50 cables, or even less.

Furthermore, there was a risk of a shell hitting the side or rear walls of the Japanese casemates. This was because only the part of the casemate facing the enemy had 152mm of protection.


Therefore, a shell fired from the sharp bow or stern angles could easily hit the side wall of the casemate, which was protected only by 50,8 mm of armor, which was no obstacle to an 8-inch shell. Even a 6-inch shell, exploding while penetrating the armor, could have caused considerable distress to those in the casemate.

During the Battle of August 1 in the Korea Strait, Russian 8-inch shells twice penetrated both sides of the Japanese cruisers and escaped without exploding. In one instance, a shell struck the Izumo just off the sternpost, and this hit can be considered unremarkable, as the shell's path through the cruiser's hull was minimal. However, the second shell penetrated the side of the Azuma, passed through the sick bay, pierced a cabin bulkhead, ricocheted off the middle deck, leaving a 0,45-meter-long crack, and then pierced a ventilation shaft, a coal loading pipe, and the bulkhead of another cabin before escaping overboard. In short, this shell, which struck the Azuma's port side, had its trajectory been slightly different, could easily have struck the aft wall of the starboard casemate—with dire consequences for the latter, of course.

And here an important caveat is necessary: ​​although the Bayan's casemate could also be hit through the roof, and with very, very great Japanese luck – through the armor, the consequences of this defeat for the cruisers were fundamentally different.

The problem is that the British, by cramming powerful artillery and armor into the limited displacement of the Asama and Izumo, were forced to sacrifice a lot, including the ease of ammunition supply. In the Bayan design, the French arranged each 6-inch gun so that it had its own magazine, from which it was fed. The British couldn't afford this in their armored cruiser design for Japan—they lacked space.

Therefore, on Izumo, as on other British-built cruisers, the 6-inch magazines were located closer to the bow and stern. Shells and charges from these magazines were transferred to special corridors located under the armored deck between the engine and boiler rooms and the coal bins. Ammunition was transported within these corridors using special rails running under the corridor's roof directly to the feed pipes.

But these feed pipes themselves were of an extremely primitive design—two endless chains with two hooks on each. One chain was for shells, the other for charges. One hook and the shell (charge) on it were fed to the gun, while the other was located in the corridor.

So, not only did the shells and charges have to be transferred to the guns in numerous iterations, but the ammunition feed was also done manually. In other words, the endless chains were turned not by electric motors, but by humans. Four people per gun: two for the endless chain with charges and two for the shells. The Russian Imperial Navy, of course, didn't have this anachronism on the contemporary Asama and Izumo ships. Our ammunition was lifted by electric winches, which allowed it to be fed in arbours containing three rounds each. And understandably, feeding ammunition to the Bayan's six-inch guns was much faster than the Japanese could manage on their armoured cruisers.

The result of such cost-cutting was predictable. The 6-inch ammunition feed system adopted on British-built armored cruisers was nowhere near capable of ensuring the combat rate of fire of 6-inch guns. Feeding shells at the rate at which they were expended in actual combat was simply impossible. This was not due to the "short stature" or "physical weakness" of Japanese sailors compared to their European counterparts, but to the primitive and archaic ammunition feed system.

The solution to this problem was similar to that used for the main-caliber turrets: a significant portion of the ammunition was stored directly in the casemates. I can only assume the only difference was that:

1. In the towers, shells were stored routinely and on a permanent basis, but in the casemates, supplies were formed in anticipation of a battle;

2. Only shells were stored in the towers, but both shells and charges were supplied to the casemates.

This order of ammunition supply to the 6-inch guns led to the tragedy on the Iwate, which received an 8-inch shell in the upper starboard casemate of the cruiser's bow. As a result of the explosion, the Japanese lost 23 shells and 36 charges for the 6-inch gun, as well as 24 76-mm rounds stored on the roof of the casemate. It is likely that not all of them detonated or burned; some may have been thrown overboard. However, the force of the explosion was sufficient to disable three 6-inch guns, including both six-inch guns in the "two-story" forward casemate where the shell struck, as well as another deck gun closest to this casemate, as well as the 76-mm gun located on the roof of the casemate. Forty men were killed and 36 wounded, seven of whom were seriously injured. The officer losses must have disrupted the firing, as the commanders of the third and fourth artillery groups (the forward and aft 6-inch guns) were incapacitated: one killed, the other seriously wounded. The commander of the forward 76-mm gun group was also killed, while the senior artillery officer was only lightly wounded.

Overall, the blow was devastating. But any 6-inch gun casemate could have suffered the same blow, since they were all converted into artillery magazines before battle. And where the Japanese kept their ammunition for the exposed six-inch guns with their meager shields—I don't even want to think about it.


It must be said that the Iwate withstood this terrible blow with honor: having lost 76 men killed and wounded and almost half of the 6-inch guns firing to starboard, she continued to fight without abandoning her place in the line. But such an outcome was not always to be expected: the fire and energy from the casemate explosion could spread down the supply pipes into the corridors used to transport ammunition, and there was a considerable amount of it.

Much later, during World War I, this scenario proved fatal for the German armored cruiser Blücher, whose ammunition supply for her 210mm guns was organized in a similar manner—through a corridor beneath the armored deck. A British shell ignited 35-40 charges in this corridor, causing two turrets to burn to the ground along with their crews. The shells did not detonate, but a massive fire broke out amidships, and severed steam lines led to a drop in speed, which ultimately sealed the Blücher's demise.

So, at a range of 30-50 cable lengths, the Izumo had plenty of weak spots, significantly more than the Bayan. As the range closed, things got even worse: at 22-26 cable lengths, the upper belt and traverses of the 127 mm armor protecting the feed pipes of the 8-inch turrets began to be penetrated. Such armor was quite resistant to our 8-inch high-explosive shells: even if the shell exploded upon passing through it, the force of hot fragments and gases would obviously penetrate the feed pipes. And from 22 cable lengths, even the 152 mm armor of the turrets and feed pipes above the 127 mm traverses was at risk. Of course, 152 mm of plate is much thicker than the four inches that a Russian 8-inch shell could penetrate according to the "half-caliber" rule, and a Russian high-explosive shell would not have penetrated it entirely. But, having exploded in the process of penetrating the armor, it still had a good chance of transmitting its “flaming-fragment greeting” to the space behind the armor, as was done in the battle at Shantung by a 12-inch shell that penetrated the 173 mm armor plate of the Mikasa.

From 20 cable lengths, the cruiser's gunners would have switched to armor-piercing shells. It's hard to imagine ships meeting at less than 15 cable lengths in a Russo-Japanese War battle, so we can assume the Izumo's citadel and magazines would have remained safe. However, anything protected by 152 mm of armor or less would have been reliably penetrated by Russian 8-inch shells at a range of 15-20 cable lengths—even if the Izumo had been protected by Krupp armor rather than Harvey.

The conclusion from the above is simple: Bayan had the potential to inflict far more serious damage on Izumo than Izumo could on Bayan, at both long and short ranges. Bayan, however, should have acted decisively and, with its speed advantage, quickly closed with Izumo to within armor-piercing range, where our cruiser had a good chance of destroying Izumo.

Fly in the Ointment


Given the above, at first glance it appears that, despite being lighter, less heavily armored, and less armed, the Bayan is more powerful than the Japanese Izumo. But this isn't entirely true.

Let's take a battle at a range of 30-50 kbt. Without a doubt, at such distances, the Bayan's shells could cause far more serious damage to the Izumo than the Izumo's shells could to the Bayan. But would they?

At such ranges, it's impossible to target the waterline extremities or the roofs of Japanese casemates. Impact locations will be largely random, and to have a chance of hitting the Izumo in a vulnerable spot, a sufficient number of hits would be needed.

In terms of the 8-inch gun mounts, the Bayan had everything for this. Her single-gun turrets provided a firepower comparable to the twin turrets of British-built Japanese armored cruisers. Thus, the Bayan could unleash roughly the same number of 8-inch shells on the enemy as the enemy unleashed on her. However, the situation with her 6-inch guns is less clear—as is well known, some of our six-inch Canet guns were prone to breakdowns when firing at long ranges. According to some estimates, the fault lay not with the guns themselves, but with the weak deck reinforcements beneath them. It's possible that a similar problem could have befallen the Bayan's 6-inch guns, which were already few in number, only four per side.

But even if the Bayan's six-inch guns were reliable, firing doesn't necessarily mean hitting. And hitting would have been significantly more difficult for the Bayan's gunners than for the Japanese. I don't know if the Bayan had a rangefinder, but most likely not, and there were no accurate optical sights. All of this, of course, would have greatly reduced the Russian ship's accuracy relative to the Izumo.

Even if the Bayan's gunners had had both rangefinders and optical sights, they still couldn't have been expected to match the Japanese gunners' accuracy. Russian shells, even high-explosive ones, could penetrate armor of a certain thickness, but this advantage came at a very high price. The pyroxylin-filled shells had no tendency to explode upon impact with the water (although this did happen), and they usually exploded not on the hull but inside the ship, which obscured the flash (and was impossible to see at such distances) and produced no noticeable smoke. All this meant that both target acquisition and target engagement were poorly observed from the Russian ship, if at all. The navy would eventually learn to fire such shells, but this happened much later than the Russo-Japanese War and with improved fire control systems.

The Japanese shells exploded both on the water and on the hull, and the explosions produced clearly visible columns of black smoke, so the Izumo's gunners had no problems with sighting in and assessing the effectiveness of their fire.

So, in a battle at a range of 30-50 cable lengths, the Japanese cruiser, thanks to its rangefinders and optical sights, its larger number of 6-inch barrels, and its better visibility of the impact and detonation of its own shells, would have scored significantly more hits on the Bayan than the Bayan scored on the Izumo. These hits could not have caused critical damage to the Bayan, but they had some chance of weakening its artillery potential. Overall, the Bayan was well protected against high-explosive shells, but, as mentioned above, the roofs of its casemates were vulnerable. Furthermore, in battles during the Russo-Japanese War, there were frequent instances where a shell exploding on the belt armor or deck killed or wounded gun crews with shrapnel flying into the embrasures of the turrets and casemates. Let us also recall the extremely poor design of the conning towers, which literally absorbed Japanese shrapnel from shells exploding nearby - such shrapnel could have incapacitated the officer directing the Bayan's fire.

At the same time, firing at 30-50 cable lengths, the Japanese armored cruisers did not demonstrate the ability to rain down shells on the Russian ships that would have reliably suppressed the Russian cruiser's fire. Still, Bayan, fighting at that range, would have scored significantly fewer hits, and statistically, its chances of inflicting serious damage on Izumo were slim.

Therefore, the most realistic outcome of a prolonged firefight between the Bayan and the Izumo at 30-50 cable lengths is a draw. Most likely, the Bayan would have sustained many more hits, but without sustaining any serious damage.

At a range of 20-30 cable lengths, the situation would have begun to change. Of course, Izumo's accuracy would have increased with decreasing range, but so would Bayan's. In fact, one might expect Bayan's accuracy gain to be even greater than that of the Japanese cruiser, as its mechanical sights allowed for a more or less accurate placement of shells within Izumo's silhouette at 20-30 cable lengths. This doesn't mean, of course, that Bayan would have demonstrated better accuracy than Izumo, but the gap in their accuracy would have tended to narrow.

Let's say that at a distance of 30-50 cables, with equal training of gunners, the Bayan would give one hit with an 8-inch shell on two Japanese (the figures, of course, are completely arbitrary and taken only as an example), then at 20-30 cables it could give two or three hits with 8-inch shells on three or four Japanese.

Compared to an artillery duel of 30-50 kbt, the Bayan had a better chance of inflicting significant damage on the Izumo, and the Izumo had a better chance of suppressing the Bayan's artillery, and overall, here too, one can diagnose the approximate equality of these cruisers.

The situation changed dramatically only at a range of 15-20 kbt. Here, the Bayan gained a significant advantage, as its accuracy was quite high even with mechanical sights; rangefinders were of little use at such a distance, and its 8-inch shells would confidently penetrate the Izumo's turrets, feed pipes, and casemates. At the same time, due to the characteristics of its ammunition, the Izumo didn't benefit significantly from closing the range to 15-20 kbt.

Conclusions


Despite the fact that the Izumo had a larger displacement, better protection, and was superior to the Bayan in the number of artillery guns, and also taking into account the ammunition actually used by both sides, it can be said that:

1. At a distance of over 20 cables, the capabilities of the cruisers should be considered comparable, and a fire battle at this distance would most likely end in a draw.

2. At a distance of 20 kbt and less, when the Bayan would have switched to armor-piercing shells, capable of penetrating 152 mm armor at such a distance, the Russian cruiser would have gained a noticeable advantage over the Izumo.

Earlier, in a series of articles devoted to the shells and armor of the Russian Imperial Navy, I showed in the final piece that our admirals, having relied on armor-piercing shells, which were effective only at relatively short ranges, were unable to provide their ships with the speed that would have allowed them to engage the Japanese at such distances. Because of this, the main weapon The fleet was actually unable to demonstrate its effectiveness.

But for the Bayan and Izumo pair, things would have been different. Bayan outscored the Japanese cruiser by approximately 2 knots (20 knots versus 18 knots), so its commander could impose any distance he deemed necessary on Izumo. At the same time, the Izumo's commander, commanding a heavier and more powerful (in terms of number of guns) ship, would likely not have avoided closing to 25–30 cable lengths, and perhaps even closer. However, by closing to 30 cable lengths, Bayan would have been able to quickly close to the firing range of its 8-inch armor-piercing shells.

In general, all that was required of the Bayan's commander in a hypothetical duel with the Izumo was, in the best traditions of the navy, to move forward at full speed to close in and engage the Izumo in combat at a "dagger" distance, where the presence of armor-piercing shells would give the Bayan a noticeable advantage.

Well, we've finished with the Izumo, now let's see what another Japanese cruiser, the Nissin, could do to counter the Bayan.

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  1. +6
    25 June 2026 07: 54
    A significant portion of the ammunition was stored directly in the casemates.

    As far as I understand, after Ulsan the Japanese put an end to this practice.
    But for the couple "Bayan" & "Izumo"

    The only problem is that such a confrontation is absolutely impossible, if only because we have only one Bayan, while the Japanese have six Asamoids. And they usually never traveled in less than twos.
    One can, of course, imagine that "Bayan" did not explode in front of Shantung and, unlike "Askold", communicated a little more closely with "Asama"...
    In any case, thanks to the author hi
    1. +4
      25 June 2026 08: 42
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      The only problem is that such a confrontation is absolutely impossible.

      Of course. But the comparison is purely theoretical and is made to assess the cruisers' combat potential.
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      One can, of course, imagine that "Bayan" did not explode in front of Shantung and, unlike "Askold", communicated a little more closely with "Asama"...

      It's possible. In theory, it's possible for the Bayan to attack a cruiser that the Japanese have positioned in a line while that line is engaged in combat with our battleships.
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      In any case, thanks to the author

      You're welcome!
    2. +4
      25 June 2026 15: 55
      Now the Sevastopol LK, practically the best in the world and easily standing up to any half-baked Koenigs, now the Bayan, covering the Izumo like a bull covers a sheep. Miracles, and nothing more.
      1. +1
        25 June 2026 19: 44
        Quote: Jura 27
        That's LC Sevastopol, almost the best in the world

        Don't exaggerate. Andrey wrote back then that he was simply "not as bad" as is commonly believed.
      2. +2
        25 June 2026 19: 52
        Quote: Jura 27
        Miracles, and nothing more.

        But in general, there is sometimes a shock from the conclusions of the respected author))))
        1. 0
          25 June 2026 20: 07
          Vanya, what if I have 3-4 fighters in my group??? And in the fortification on the contrary, there are 10??? Am I already defeated???
          1. +4
            25 June 2026 20: 20
            Lesha, if you want to ask something, just ask it directly. Sometimes I get lost in your spate of short comments.
  2. +1
    25 June 2026 08: 00
    You compared a hit on the Ivat with a hit on the Blyukher. But the calibers were completely different. All the massive fires in WWI were the result of armor penetration by shells much larger than those in the Ryav.
    1. +2
      25 June 2026 08: 44
      Quote: Panin (Michman)
      You compared a hit on the Iwata with a hit on the Blucher. But the calibers were completely different.

      Caliber has nothing to do with it—it's about the propagation of explosive energy through the ammunition's feed pipes. And this explosion, in the Iwate example, could have been caused by a medium-caliber shell.
      1. +5
        25 June 2026 09: 06
        Andrei, good afternoon!
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And this explosion, in the example of "Iwate", could have been caused by a medium-caliber projectile

        The Iwate commander's combat report clearly states that an 8-inch shell from the Rurik hit.
        1. +3
          25 June 2026 09: 15
          Alex, welcome!
          Quote: rytik32
          The Iwate commander's combat report clearly states that an 8-inch shell from the Rurik hit.

          Strictly speaking, he couldn't have known whose shell hit him. But I certainly agree that it could have been, and most likely was, Rurik's shell.
          1. +4
            25 June 2026 09: 52
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Strictly speaking, he couldn't know whose shell hit him.

            It was possible to observe which ship was firing, which gun fired...
            I will also add that, according to Japanese observations, a shell from the Poltava hit the Mikasa in the main gun barrel, which caused the shell to explode in the barrel.
            1. +3
              25 June 2026 09: 58
              Quote: rytik32
              It was possible to observe which ship was firing, which gun fired...

              Alexey, who on the Iwate would have monitored the firing of all three Russian cruisers, noting the time of possible shell arrivals? :))) Especially considering that ours weren't firing in salvos. And they were confusing the cruisers' gunfire with the flashes of their own impacts. Who would have to assign a whole team of observers to do that, and why? They saw the Rurik firing at the Iwate, so they assumed the shell had come from there.
  3. -2
    25 June 2026 09: 03
    But for the pair Bayan and Izumo, things would have been different. Bayan outscored the Japanese cruiser by approximately 2 knots (20 knots versus 18 knots), so its commander could impose on Izumo any distance he deemed necessary.

    Have you tried to justify it?
    During sea trials, the Japanese armored cruiser Izumo demonstrated a maximum speed of 21,74 knots.


    During official sea trials in October and December 1902, the lead armored cruiser Bayan demonstrated a maximum speed of 20,97 knots. The average speed during the main trials was 20,9 knots.


    In short, it's a complete mess. Bayan's sailors avoided combat with the Asami at all costs, rightly expecting major problems from such a meeting.
    1. +6
      25 June 2026 09: 18
      Quote: Saxahorse
      Have you tried to justify it?

      Have you tried to read?
      https://topwar.ru/283282-bronenosnyj-krejser-bajan-stroitelstvo-i-ispytanija-kogda-reshaet-skorost.html
      Quote: Saxahorse
      During sea trials, the Japanese armored cruiser Izumo demonstrated a maximum speed of 21,74 knots.

      Yeah. Under boost. True, in service, it didn't even reach 21,74 knots, let alone 18 knots, except on major holidays...
      Quote: Saxahorse
      In general, it's some kind of nonsense.

      I hear the deafening crack of a template being torn...
      1. +1
        25 June 2026 12: 52
        Andrey, thank you for another amazing article... You somehow inadvertently answer my questions... But you also raise new ones...
        1. +1
          25 June 2026 13: 08
          I'm a staunch supporter of your plan for more intensive use of the fleet in the Russian Navy, hence the first question... If June 10th had been a battle like July 28th... The Russian squadron had clashed with the Japanese and returned to Arthur in full force... Clearly, a huge amount of experience would have been gained... The essence of my question is, what could the Russian gunners have changed in the conditions of Port Arthur, in terms of reorganizing the firing, considering that hits are not visible, and short-shots only produce splashes, not columns of smoke... It is clear that new rangefinders and optical sights are nowhere to be found???
          1. 0
            25 June 2026 13: 17
            Second question... Why the hell did they put the suffocating Azuma instead of the Asama in Kamimura's squadron, whose speed was the most important tactical element? They weren't originally planning to catch up with the Vladivostok detachment.
            1. 0
              25 June 2026 13: 44
              Third question... I read that the shells in the Izumo and Campaign turrets also played a role in balancing the turret, meaning that "using them first" was highly undesirable???
              1. 0
                25 June 2026 15: 00
                Quote: Ragnar
                Andrey, thank you for another amazing article.

                Thanks for your kind words!
                Quote: Ragnar
                The essence of my question is what could the Russian artillerymen change in the conditions of Port Arthur, in terms of reorganizing the shooting

                Basically, nothing. They would just have practiced on cats. There was no point in building any new systems, since there were no resources to practice new shooting techniques.
                Quote: Ragnar
                Why the hell did they put the suffocating Azuma instead of the Asama in Kamimura's squadron, whose speed was the most important tactical element???

                Perhaps rumors of Azuma's incompetence were exaggerated and it stood out little from the other Asamoids. But I don't know for sure. Besides, as I understand it, Arthurian ships were still considered a more formidable adversary than the FOC.
                Quote: Ragnar
                I read that the shells in the Izumo and Campaign turrets also played a role in balancing the turret, meaning that "using them first" was highly undesirable???

                This is the first I've heard of this. In theory, yes, the mass of 62 shells is nothing to sneeze at, almost 6 tons, but I don't know how much that will affect the balance.
                1. 0
                  25 June 2026 18: 53
                  Andryukha... Are you kidding me???
                  1. 0
                    25 June 2026 19: 19
                    The renovation and expansion of the wooden boathouse at the Baltic Shipyard cost 116000 rubles... As a result, the "Slava," which cost almost 14 million rubles, never made it to the war it was built for.
                    1. 0
                      25 June 2026 19: 23
                      Is this how it works???
                      1. +3
                        26 June 2026 07: 27
                        Quote: Ragnar
                        As a result, the Slava, which cost almost 14 million, never made it to the war for which it was built.

                        Slava didn't make it to the war because so many things—guns, turrets, armor—were unready. There were also no men left to complete the construction—all forces were thrown into the four lead ships.
                      2. 0
                        26 June 2026 10: 13
                        That's true, but not quite so... K.K. Ratnik put forward a proposal to finish "Glory" in the autumn of 1904... That means he knew something... That means there were options...
                      3. +2
                        26 June 2026 10: 49
                        Quote: Ragnar
                        K.K. Ratnik put forward a proposal to finish "Glory" in the fall of 1904... That means he knew something.

                        All he knew was that his Baltic Shipyard was capable of building the Slava ahead of schedule. What he didn't know was whether the contractors would be able to fulfill their delivery obligations. At the same time, K.K. Ratnik, with all due respect, was also human and sometimes made mistakes.
                        So, based on hindsight - no, there were no options.
                      4. 0
                        26 June 2026 12: 19
                        Do you think that the director of the Baltic Shipyard was so unaware of the situation with its subcontractors that it seems somehow strange???
                      5. +3
                        26 June 2026 12: 54
                        Quote: Ragnar
                        Do you think that the director of the Baltic Shipyard was so unaware of the situation with subcontractors?

                        How much? Even today, you can't control your subcontractors and won't know how much they'll screw up until they make final deliveries. Even if you send representatives to the subcontractor plant, you won't be able to control it. Not to mention Ratnik's forecasts for months ahead. He based his calculations on deadlines set and adjusted by suppliers, but in reality, the turrets weren't ready by the end of the year, the artillery wasn't shipped to the battleship from the factories until November-December, and some equipment from the Slava had to be transferred to the Suvorov, Alexander, Orel, and other ships to ensure they were ready for deployment.
                        Quote: Ragnar
                        Does this look a bit strange?

                        Nothing strange at all
                      6. 0
                        26 June 2026 14: 08
                        Well, yes... what's surprising about that... The Baltic Shipyard is building its first two battleships with turrets from the Putilov Plant, and for some reason they're using Metallichesky products on the Slava... And the ini are very different...
                      7. +1
                        26 June 2026 14: 32
                        Quote: Ragnar
                        and for some reason they put Metallic products on the Slava

                        The MTC made decisions in consultation with the factories, based on their ability to produce the turrets by the required deadline. Both factories are swamped with orders.
                      8. 0
                        26 June 2026 15: 44
                        MTK, definitely, but what about GUKiS??? I'm digging around in the sources... There was some kind of confusion with these towers...
                  2. +3
                    26 June 2026 07: 22
                    Quote: Ragnar
                    Andryukha... Are you kidding me???

                    Of course:))) That's me.
                    What is the question, actually?
                    1. +1
                      26 June 2026 16: 27
                      So, it's 1900... Germany is transferring the Brandenburg Division to China... They say they completed the task in 50 days... And they conclude that it's advisable to replace the "camping" admiral with a "fresh" combat admiral for the conduct of military operations...
                      1. 0
                        26 June 2026 16: 33
                        Did we know about this??? It's common for us to badmouth Rozhdestvensky... But this man carried the squadron for seven months, and even suffered a stroke along the way... No one had any desire to replace him with an admiral who wasn't tired???
                      2. +2
                        29 June 2026 10: 28
                        Quote: Ragnar
                        Didn't anyone have any desire to replace him with an admiral who wasn't tired???

                        So there was a replacement - he was waiting in Vladik)
                        True, it was still necessary to get there.
                        In general, I read today Pakenham's report on the inspection of the battleship Oryol and I felt really sad.
  4. +1
    25 June 2026 10: 15
    Bayan didn't have optical sights and rangefinders?
    1. +4
      25 June 2026 10: 37
      Quote: dragon772
      Bayan didn't have optical sights and rangefinders?

      I couldn't figure out the rangefinders, but the Bayan had no optics, as the entire 1TOE was mechanical. Only the 2TOE had optics.
      1. +1
        26 June 2026 08: 55
        The Tsarevich and Bayan set out on a voyage to the Far East without Barr and Stroud rangefinders, and the cruiser also suffered from an unsuccessful design of the shutters on the gun ports, which would swing open when hit by waves (which, given the low position of the side batteries, effectively prevented the use of any guns other than the 8" turret guns in more or less strong seas).
      2. 0
        26 June 2026 16: 42
        There were definitely no optics...
  5. +1
    25 June 2026 10: 19
    Good afternoon.
    Dear Andrey, thank you for continuing.
    But there's less certainty about the 6-inch guns—as is well known, some of our Canet six-inch guns were prone to breakdowns when firing at long ranges. According to some estimates, the fault lay not with the guns themselves, but with their weak deck reinforcements. It's possible that a similar problem could have befallen the Bayan's 6-inch guns, which were already few in number, only four per side.

    To answer this question, it's important to understand the upgrades made to Canet's gun in Russia. In response to a request from the French Navy Ministry, Canet stated that his 6-inch gun, with a 45-caliber barrel and a 40-kilogram projectile, was designed for a pressure of 2400 kg, resulting in a projectile velocity of 680 m/s. It was decided to determine the pressure required to achieve a velocity of 750 m/s. Two types of propellant powder—B16 and B19—were used. As a result, a velocity of 750–758 m/s was achieved, but the pressure exceeded the permissible limits: with B16 propellant, it was 2674 kg, while with B19, it was 2536 kg. For this reason, Canet's 6-inch guns could fail due to exceeding the permissible loads.
    1. +3
      25 June 2026 10: 38
      Good afternoon, dear Igor! There was some information that the issue wasn't the guns themselves, but rather the weak deck reinforcements that supported them. I can't vouch for the veracity of this; I can't even remember where I read it now.
    2. +5
      25 June 2026 11: 02
      Quote: 27091965i
      For this reason, failures of Canet's 6-inch guns are possible due to exceeding the permissible loads.

      Supporters of the version about the breakdown of the ship's 6" Canet due to the insufficient strength of the deck reinforcements usually refer to the fact that when installing the same guns on the shore on a concrete base, there were no "ship" breakdowns when firing with high depression angles.
      1. +3
        25 June 2026 12: 15
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Supporters of the version about the breakdown of the ship's 6" Canet due to the insufficient strength of the deck reinforcements usually refer to the fact that when installing the same guns on the shore on a concrete base, there were no "ship" breakdowns when firing with high depression angles.

        It's important to establish the number of shots fired from the 6-inch Canet guns on Port Arthur's coastal batteries, as well as their elevation angles. Therefore, in my opinion, the argument about a concrete foundation is more conjecture than assertion.
        1. +3
          30 June 2026 16: 09
          Quote: 27091965i
          It is important to establish the number of shots fired from the 6-inch Canet guns on the coastal batteries of Port Arthur, as well as the angles of their elevation.

          In terms of Canet's breakdowns, the "fortologists" referred to the results of tests of the 6" Canet at Fort Totleben.
          As for the "delivery" of mechanisms and breakage of gears, I'm sorry, but this is an old topic that has been dealt with for a long time. The reason for these breakdowns was not a congenital defect in the gun, but the weakness of the deck reinforcements and shock vibrations arose at the time of the shot.
          In 1360, the test report of the Kane gun No. 148 at Fort Totleben was stored. A full combat charge and at a maximum elevation angle fired, and no breakdowns. The cause of these unpleasant phenomena was eliminated by reinforcing the decks of ships armed with a 6-dm Kane gun.
          1. +1
            1 July 2026 18: 39
            The reason for these breakdowns was not an inherent defect in the gun, but rather the weakness of the deck reinforcements, which resulted in shock vibrations occurring at the moment of firing.

            In other words, if our fleet had taken the trouble to conduct sufficiently long-term tests in time, this defect would have been identified and (possibly) even corrected.
            Or instructions have been issued not to shoot too much. feel
  6. +2
    25 June 2026 16: 12
    An unfortunate drawback, but still not worth overemphasizing - the 50mm armored deck (30mm armor steel and 2*10mm steel sheets) located below the waterline guaranteed the invulnerability of the steering system from the impact of shells with a caliber of 6-8 inch.

    The French conducted experiments to determine the required armor deck thickness. These tests used a 320mm high-explosive coastal artillery shell containing 25 kg of melinite. When this shell detonated above an 80mm-thick armor deck at a height of 0,6 meters, it created a hole approximately one square meter in area. Up to 180 kg of shrapnel fell through this hole into the lower compartment. It can be assumed that a 50mm armor deck could protect against fragments from 8-inch shells and the effects of a blast wave. However, the weight of explosive in an 8-inch shell would need to be known.
    1. +3
      25 June 2026 18: 37
      Quote: 27091965i
      These tests used a 320mm high-explosive coastal artillery shell containing 25 kg of melinite. When detonated at a height of 0,6 meters above the 80mm-thick armored deck, it created a hole approximately one square meter in area.

      Of course. To protect against such a strike and at such an altitude, at least 75 mm of armor was required, and not homogeneous, but cemented. But even an 8-inch shell weighing 113 kg contained 10,19 kg of shimoza, and 95,3 kg is obviously even less. And, obviously, fragments from a 320 mm shell had much more kinetic energy than 8 inch shells.
      1. +2
        26 June 2026 09: 02
        Good morning.
        Of course. To protect against such a strike and at such an altitude, at least 75 mm of armor was required, and not homogeneous, but cemented.

        Tests of exploding shells weighing 25 kg of melinite revealed that to ensure protection, the deck must have an overall thickness of at least 90 mm. Therefore, the armored deck of the aft section of the armored cruiser Bayan provided reliable protection against 6-inch shells. If an 8-inch shell had struck, the impact would have depended on the height of its explosion relative to the deck.
        The French concept for an armored reconnaissance ship was to fire while retreating, using high-explosive shells with powerful explosives. It was hoped that such hits would force the enemy to abandon pursuit. Furthermore, the shells fired by the enemy were expected to hit the armored reconnaissance ship at significant angles. For this reason, armor protection of 60–100 mm was considered sufficient for such a ship.
        The armored cruiser Bayan can be described as a ship that embodies compromise solutions. It has both positive and negative aspects.
        1. +3
          26 June 2026 10: 14
          Quote: 27091965i
          The armored cruiser Bayan can be described as a ship that embodies compromise solutions.

          In principle, this could be described as such for almost any ship. But the "Bayan" truly had too many compromises.
          1. +2
            26 June 2026 11: 03
            Good afternoon.
            In principle, this could be described as such for almost any ship. But the "Bayan" truly had too many compromises.

            Dear Ivan, every warship represents a balance between various characteristics, and the armored cruiser Bayan is particularly illustrative in this regard. This ship was conceived as an armored reconnaissance vessel, and its technical parameters fully met the requirements of the time. Since it was built in a single example, it was likely decided that it would actively participate in battles involving ironclads. This is why it was equipped with a 200mm thick armor belt, which was excessive for protection against 6-8-inch guns but sufficient for withstanding large-caliber shells. However, its weak armament still limited its capabilities, and it could only be effective as part of a detachment. A single ship of this type would not have had a significant impact on the outcome of a battle.
        2. +2
          26 June 2026 11: 21
          Quote: 27091965i
          Tests of detonating shells weighing 25 kg of melinite revealed that to provide protection the deck must have a total thickness of at least 90 mm.

          Let's remember that a direct hit from a 10-inch high-explosive shell to the roof of the "Tsarevich" turret (40 mm of armor on 10+10 mm steel) was generally sustained by the roof. 17 kg of shimoza.
          1. +1
            26 June 2026 12: 54
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Let's remember that a direct hit from a 10-inch high-explosive shell to the roof of the "Tsarevich" turret (40 mm of armor on 10+10 mm steel) was generally sustained by the roof. 17 kg of shimoza.

            Dear Andrey, the Le Havre Artillery Commission determined the level of protection. The Le Havre proving ground is a complex with its own workshops, engineers, workers, officers, and soldiers. Armor tests conducted at Le Havre were subsequently used in ship design. Whenever the armor quality or the physical properties of the steel changed, the tests were repeated. For this reason, a 70+10+10 mm armor deck guaranteed protection against the detonation of a shell containing 25 kg of melinite at a height of 0,60 meters.
            The hit to the roof of the Tsarevich's turret is one of the few cases where the thinner armor was not penetrated. The factors that contributed to this are virtually impossible to determine.
            1. +1
              26 June 2026 13: 10
              Quote: 27091965i
              The Le Havre Artillery Commission determined the level of protection.

              Dear Igor, am I arguing? I'm talking about something else - these experiments are not absolute. You're saying
              Quote: 27091965i
              If an 8-inch shell had hit, the result would have depended on the height of its explosion relative to the deck.

              An 8-inch shell hitting the roof of the Orel turret caused no damage behind the armor, despite the armor thickness there being 50,8 mm. On the same Orel, the 38 mm thick turret roof, 6-inch thick, withstood a 6-inch shell. And approximately 60 10-12-inch shells that hit the ships of the 1st TOE in the ZhM never caused damage to the armored deck.
              1. +3
                26 June 2026 13: 30
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                An 8-inch shell hitting the roof of the Orel turret caused no damage behind the armor, despite the armor thickness there being 50,8 mm. On the same Orel, the 38 mm thick turret roof, 6-inch thick, withstood a 6-inch shell. And approximately 60 10-12-inch shells that hit the ships of the 1st TOE in the ZhM never caused damage to the armored deck.

                Therefore, I wrote:
                The hit to the roof of the Tsarevich's turret is one of the few cases where the thinner armor was not penetrated. The factors that contributed to this are virtually impossible to determine.

                After the Sino-Japanese War, virtually all countries agreed that range tests differed from actual combat results. However, a basis for ship design was necessary, so experimental firings, shell detonations, and other activities continued. These results also served as a kind of "impetus" for reconsidering various concepts, although not always in the "right direction."
                1. +1
                  26 June 2026 13: 53
                  Quote: 27091965i
                  But a basis for designing ships was necessary

                  Of course. Therefore, they can and should definitely be used, but conclusions should be drawn based on all available evidence, including the results of combat use.
                  1. +2
                    26 June 2026 14: 16
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Of course. Therefore, they can and should definitely be used, but conclusions should be drawn based on all available evidence, including the results of combat use.

                    I think you understand that we weren't really preparing for a different kind of naval war. The increased combat range, so to speak, "nullified" all developments in armor-piercing shells. This is especially true for medium-caliber artillery, and shells with high-explosive explosives are unavailable and unobtainable. In the Russo-Japanese War, armor defeated armor-piercing shells, but lost, in the form of the RIF, to high-explosive shells with high-explosive explosives.
                    1. 0
                      26 June 2026 15: 37
                      Quote: 27091965i
                      I think you understand that you were not preparing much for another war at sea.

                      Us? Yes, of course, I wrote about it.
                      1. +1
                        26 June 2026 17: 28
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Us? Yes, of course, I wrote about it.

                        Andrey, write " I know that you know", it seems to me a little wrong.
              2. +2
                27 June 2026 17: 12
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                And about 60 shells of 10-12 dm caliber that hit the ships of the 1st TOE in the ZhM never caused damage to the armored deck.

                A 10" high-explosive shell similar to the one that damaged the roof of the 12" turret of the Tsarevich led to the following damage on the cruiser Diana (E.V. Polomoshnova, "Battle of July 28, 1904," p. 266)

                "2.2. Around 19.20 - 19.40, a 10" high-explosive shell from the armored cruiser "Kassuga" struck the aft underwater part of the cruiser on the starboard side at an acute angle in the direction from bow to stern, in the space between the slope of the armored deck and the underlying unarmored deck (in the area of ​​the pharmacy, infirmary, and ship's office). Dimensions of the hole: length 18 feet (5,4 m), width 6 feet (1,8 m). The armored deck developed a small leak.

                Comment: There was no direct penetration of the armor deck plate. Deformation of the armor deck slope fastenings due to the explosion was recorded, weakening of the side structures, which led to the penetration of water into the compartments below the waterline, and a general weakening of the plating (due to dangerous vibrations of the side in this place, it was impossible to fire from the three 152-mm guns of the aft group, which reduced the salvo of the cruiser's 152-mm artillery by half).
            2. +2
              27 June 2026 16: 36
              Quote: 27091965i
              The hit to the roof of the Tsarevich's turret is one of the few cases where the thinner armor was not penetrated. The factors that contributed to this are virtually impossible to determine.

              It looked like it was a projectile with a head fuse.

              Description: Around 14:00 - 14:20, a 10" high-explosive shell fired from a range of 45 kb struck the roof of the aft main battery turret where the roof and vertical armor met. It exploded, leaving an 18 mm deep dent in the armor (dimensions 105 x 60 mm), and a 50 mm crack. The jacket was separated from the armor by 90 mm, the edge of the roof was raised, and five bolts were knocked out (a sailor in the turret was killed by a nut). Judging by the color of the conical trace of the warhead, the projectile had a copper-plated warhead.The line connecting the center of the fragmentation circle with the shell's impact point is inclined 10 degrees to the horizon. The fragments slashed the lower aft deckhouse and smashed the 47mm ammunition elevator. Three sailors were killed and eight wounded.

              It would certainly be interesting to figure out what kind of 10" high-explosive shells with warhead fuses the Italians sold to the Japanese along with the Kasuga, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had black powder explosive charges, like the 9,2" British Common shown in the illustration:
          2. +3
            27 June 2026 17: 00
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            This roof as a whole held up to 17 kg of shimoza.

            "Judging by the color of the conical trace of the warhead, the projectile had a copper-plated warhead." E. V. Polomoshnov "Battle of July 28, 1904" p. 149

            Basically, the brass body of the British-style head tube and most likely a gunpowder explosive charge. Even if the shell was lyddite, this British head tube lacked a proper detonator; it was a gunpowder firecracker. As V.I. Rdultovsky wrote about shells with this type of head tube, they almost never fully detonated the lyddite explosive charge:

            "For ignition, head tubes with a strong firecracker made of black gunpowder were used. One of these tubes, which remained in service until the World War, is shown in Fig. 52.

            The firing pin 4 is suspended within the brass body 1 on a steel pin 3; the upper part of the firing pin is enclosed by a sleeve 5 with a separate cap. Pin 3 is designed so that it cannot be sheared off by the inertia of the firing pin during firing. During transport, the fuse head is protected by a safety cap 6, which is removed just before loading the gun.

            When the projectile falls, the resistance of the obstacle forces the striker 4 to cut the pin 3 and break the cap 2, which leads to the ignition of the firecracker 7 made of black powder and the ignition of the detonating mixture.

            With this method of detonation, lyddite shells almost never gave a full detonation.; in most cases they produced incomplete explosions with the release of yellow smoke. But this allowed the British to avoid the use of mercury fulminate caps, which they considered dangerous to fire."
  7. +1
    27 June 2026 18: 00
    I read the article by the respected author. I'm sitting here wondering how the armored cruisers of the Vladivostok detachment, whose 8-inch deck guns were practically equal in rate of fire to the 8-inch twin turrets of the Japanese cruisers, and whose 8-inch and 6-inch shells could penetrate armor, didn't give Kamimura's cruisers a run for their money in the Battle of the Korea Strait? Just kidding.
    1. 0
      27 June 2026 20: 22
      Quote: AlexanderA
      Didn't they give Kamimura's cruisers a beating in the battle in the Korean Strait?

      And study the history of the battle. You'll learn a lot:))))
      In short, the battle took place at a range of 30-40 cables, which is where, by my calculations, a duel between Bayan and an Asamoid would have ended in a draw. This is precisely what we saw in that battle on August 1st – even though Russia is no "Bayan," the Asamoids couldn't even break it. Only Rurik, who was practically unarmored, could.
      1. +1
        27 June 2026 23: 13
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Bayan's duel with the Asamoid would have ended in a draw. This is precisely what we see in that battle on August 1st.


        1. In fact, the Rurik, with its 44,45 + 31,75 + 9,5 = 85,7 mm stern carapace made of three layers of soft shipbuilding steel, was superior in protecting the steering gear compartments under the armored deck from flooding not only to the Bayan, in whose 50 mm armored deck only 30 mm of the sheet was made of nickel armor steel, but also to the battleship Peresvet with a 63,5-82,6 mm carapace deck at the ends, again made of soft shipbuilding steel.

        2. The Rurik was sunk, the Rossiya and Gromoboi managed to escape. Your understanding of "draw" is interesting, dear Andrey.

        Can you cite at least one literary source that states that the battle of August 1, 1904, ended in a draw? Or is this just your personal opinion, not supported by any other literary source that mentions the battle in the Korea Strait?
        1. 0
          27 June 2026 23: 30
          Quote: AlexanderA
          In fact, the Rurik, with its 44,45 + 31,75 + 9,5 = 85,7 mm stern carapace made of three layers of soft shipbuilding steel, was superior not only to the Bayan in terms of protection against flooding of the steering gear compartments under the armored deck.

          Incorrect. Let's look at the armor's location.
          Quote: AlexanderA
          Dear Andrey, you have an interesting understanding of "draw".

          Yes, when four cruisers cannot gain the upper hand over two for several hours and ultimately leave empty-handed, it is a draw.
          1. +1
            28 June 2026 00: 27
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Incorrect. Let's look at the armor's location.

            Look, who's stopping you? Look only at N.A. Pakhomov's book "The Ocean Cruiser Rurik: A Feat Greater Than the Varangian" (2017), and not at R.M. Melnikov's book "Rurik Was the First" (1989). Melnikov is mistaken in this regard. N.A. Pakhomov analyzes it more precisely and cites sources. I gave you the thickness of the three-layer carapace in the Rurik's stern, according to N.A. Pakhomov's book.
            Yes, when four cruisers cannot gain the upper hand over two for several hours and ultimately leave empty-handed, it is a draw.

            When you can cite at least one book source that holds a similar opinion, then it will make sense to discuss your “it’s definitely a draw.”

            Just curious, did the Battle of Dogger Bank, where the Blucher was sunk, also end in a draw? And the Battle of Gotland on June 19, 1915, also end in a draw? wink
            1. +1
              28 June 2026 08: 05
              Quote: AlexanderA
              I'm just curious, did the Battle of Dogger Bank, where the Blucher was sunk, also end in a draw?

              I'm just curious, aren't you tired of distorting the facts yet? :)))) I'm talking about the draw between Russia and Gromoboi against 4 Asamoids, and not about the entire fight.
              Quote: AlexanderA
              Look who's stopping you.

              So no one's stopping you either. But you don't look, and you don't know that I got the armor plan from Pakhomov.
              1. +1
                28 June 2026 10: 42
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                I'm just curious, aren't you tired of distorting things yet?:))))

                Dear Andrey, you have a number of SPECIAL opinions, in particular: "The concept of a squadron armored cruiser during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905 did not justify itself", "a duel between Bayan and the Asamoid would have ended in a draw", "the battle between the Rossiya and Gromoboy on August 1, 1904 ended in a draw", which of course do not appear in book sources (the book authors did not take upon themselves the courage to voice such things), and it turns out that I am "distorting"?
                I'm talking about the draw between Russia and Gromoboi against 4 Asamoids, not the entire fight.

                The forced retreat, which required abandoning the heavily damaged Rurik, was already a defeat. Kamimura only failed to achieve complete victory because his cruisers began to run low on ammunition.

                https://militera.lib.ru/h/boevaya_letopis_flota/38.html

                "At 8:25 a.m., Jessen, abandoning his attempt to assist the Rurik, turned north, engaging Admiral Kamimura's four cruisers, which had begun pursuing him on a parallel course. This engagement continued until 10:00 a.m., when Kamimura, having received a report that the cruiser Izumo was short of shells, and seeing that the speed of the Russian cruisers was not decreasing, ceased the engagement and turned back with the aim of destroying the Rurik, which by this time was already motionless and was engaged in a hopeless battle with its last surviving guns against Admiral Uriu's cruisers, which had surrounded it."

                Remarkably, the Rossiya and Gromoboi had better ammunition supplies than Kamimura's armored cruisers. The Rossiya and Gromoboi were almost out of guns capable of returning fire.

                And yes, I'll help you. I found another postmodernist historian who claims that in the battle of August 1st, Rear Admiral Jessen, on the surviving Gromoboi and Rossiya, achieved not just a draw, but a victory!

                https://military.wikireading.ru/81294

                "The conclusion that Rear Admiral Jessen prevailed over Vice Admiral Kamimura will become an indisputable truth if we again turn to the tasks that were set before the admirals..." etc.

                However, for this historian, Tsushima is one of the greatest naval triumphs of the Russian fleet!

                I'm shocked by you, postmodernist historians, forgive me, I can't find another word for it - I'm dumbfounded.
                So no one's stopping you either. But you don't look, and you don't know that I got the armor plan from Pakhomov.

                https://samlib.ru/m/matweenko_a_g/proizwodstwobronidljanuzhdflotawrossijskojimperii.shtml

                "On April 9, a meeting of the MTC was convened again. At it, M.I. Kazi recalled that the plant was capable of adjusting the carapace plates only if the thickness of these plates did not exceed 1,75 dm (44,45 mm). As a result, the MTC was forced to abandon solid carapace armor in favor of layered armor. The thickness of the upper layer of the armor deck plating was reduced to 1,75 dm so that the thickness of the lower layer was increased from 5/8 dm (15,875 mm) to 1,25 dm (31,75 mm), so that the total thickness of both layers remained the same - 3 dm (76,2 mm).
                The above-mentioned thicknesses (lower 1,25 dm and upper 1,75 dm) must be maintained throughout the entire length of the underwater armor deck at the stern of the cruiser. In the bow, the armor deck must be divided into three sections, as shown in the drawing approved by MTK journal No. 35, with the thickness of the lower layer in all three sections being 1,25 dm, and the thickness of the upper layer being 1,75 dm in the section closest to the midship, 1 3/8 dm in the next section, and 1 dm in the last section [44,45 mm, 34,9 mm, and 25,4 mm, respectively - author's note].
                On the journal, the manager of the Naval Ministry wrote: "Agreed," and with that, the issue with the carapace deck was finally closed."
                N.A. Pakhomov's work further clarifies that 9,5 mm of deck planking remained beneath the double-layered carapace. As a result, their combined thickness was 66,65/76,2/85,7 mm at the bow (three sections from the stem to the forward beam of the belt along the waterline) and 85,7 mm at the stern.
                1. 0
                  28 June 2026 17: 42
                  Quote: AlexanderA
                  Dear Andrey, you have a number of SPECIAL opinions

                  Absolutely.
                  Quote: AlexanderA
                  which, of course, are not found in book sources

                  Perhaps so.
                  Quote: AlexanderA
                  I'm shocked by you, postmodernist historians, forgive me, I can't find another word for it - I'm dumbfounded.

                  I noticed. Well, what can I do, I'm used to thinking for myself. And you can continue to freak out in some corner, that's not forbidden.
                  Quote: AlexanderA
                  The forced retreat, which required abandoning the heavily damaged Rurik, was already a defeat.

                  Yes. But the fact that, even without counting the previous battle, Russia and Gromoboy fought for almost two hours with four Asamoids and they couldn't do anything—that's a draw.
                  Quote: AlexanderA
                  (The book authors didn't take the liberty of voicing such things), but it turns out I'm the one "distorting"?

                  But you're the one distorting the facts. Because you're once again diligently shifting the conversation from the 2:1 duel situation regarding modern cruisers to the results of the battle of August 1st as a whole.
                  Quote: AlexanderA
                  https://samlib.ru/m/matweenko_a_g/proizwodstwobronidljanuzhdflotawrossijskojimperii.shtml

                  So? :)) What were you trying to say with this endless copy-pasta? That you, who claims to have an engineering education, can't comprehend the difference between a carapace and a horizontal deck? That this "engineer" doesn't understand how armor penetration depends on the angle at which a shell hits the armor? :)
                  1. +2
                    30 June 2026 20: 30
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Absolutely.

                    And these opinions are postmodernist because they contradict the conclusions of naval professionals and naval historians of the modern era. It's generally normal for postmodernism to deny knowledge of the modern era.
                    Perhaps so.

                    To elaborate on my own point, they are not found in literary sources from the modernist era. I can name a number of contemporary postmodernist authors who somewhat agree with you, because they challenge the literary knowledge of the modernist era on the Russo-Japanese War, for example.
                    I noticed.

                    I'm a normal person of the modern era - the philosophy of neopositivism, and all that. wink It's no surprise that I'm blown away by postmodernism in all its manifestations, including military history. However, I'm also interested to see where postmodernism has already led modern humanities scholarship, including in the field of historical science. wink
                    And you can continue to freak out somewhere in a corner, it’s not forbidden.

                    It's not for you to "put me in a corner." However, it's certainly not up to me to figure out the harm historical postmodernism is doing, but rather to academic scholarship—that which has somehow survived the postmodernist "pogrom" of global humanities knowledge perpetrated over the past few decades. Therefore, I will continue to watch with interest how you, with zeal, but generally localized, impose petty postmodernist historical "truths" on your readers. While not as comprehensive as those once formulated by Orwell in his dystopia "1984," they are laced with roughly the same level of historical subjectivity.
                    You, dear Andrey, are, in general, a typical modern author working within the paradigm: "Everything is like a fog. The past is erased, then forgotten, and lies become truth."

                    It's good that you're doing it in small ways. For example, the historical memory of the residents of the former Ukrainian SSR has been thoroughly worked on for decades, and the result is millions upon millions of people who have been completely "reprogrammed."

                    But in your case, the "Bayan" is equivalent in a hypothetical duel to the Japanese BRKr, which exceeded the "Bayan" in the mass of a broadside salvo by more than twice and was characterized by a significantly greater proportion of armor in their design.

                    An engaging historical read for the general reader interested in the Russo-Japanese War, it describes how Russian shells, which never once during the entire war penetrated the slopes or horizontal sections of the armored decks of Japanese ships, and never detonated the stored shells in a single turret of Japanese EBMs and BRKs, were capable of inflicting critical damage on Japanese armored ships under alternative approaches to naval artillery combat, which no commander of the same "Bayan," knowing the table characteristics of his cruiser and the Japanese BRKs, would ever have dared. wink
                    What, the "engineer" doesn't understand how armor penetration depends on the angle at which the projectile hits the armor?:)

                    An engineer with some knowledge of the history of the Great Patriotic War should understand, for example, why it was recommended to fire 76mm HE rounds at German tanks with divisional-grade cannons, even when the tanks were moving obliquely relative to the cannon. They should also understand the armor penetration mechanism involved.

                    For someone without a technical education but familiar with the history of the Russo-Japanese War, it's enough to remember that flooding the compartments beneath the karapse deck simply didn't require penetrating that deck. Example:

                    "...the battleship Poltava... At the very beginning of the battle, a high-explosive shell struck the unarmored side of the stern at the waterline. The shell penetrated the side and was found unexploded in the compartment after the battle.
                    dry provisions. The compartment flooded, and the resulting list was corrected by counter-flooding. The hit only posed a danger because water began to enter the steering gear compartment."


                    It doesn't matter. Professionals understood perfectly well that the Bayan's lack of side armor made it extremely vulnerable in a retreating battle due to the risk of massive flooding through large breaches in the unarmored side, followed by water ingress into compartments beneath the armored deck and loss of steering control.

                    The professionals understood perfectly well that a duel with any of the eight Japanese BRK-kr would have to be fought on the retreat, because the Bayan was inferior to any of the eight Japanese BRK-kr, both in terms of firepower and armor protection.

                    As for your attempts to tell the general reader that the Bayan was practically equal in combat to the Izumo-class cruisers, which were significantly superior in firepower and armor protection, and that while not superior in displacement to the Bayan, the Nisshin and Kasuga cruisers were significantly superior in firepower and armor protection—well, they're at least entertaining and amusing for the general reader. At a time when the general public acquires historical knowledge about naval warfare through the game "World of Ships," why not saturate tens of thousands of readers with the author's historical subjectivism, heavily laced with the denial of all knowledge of the modern era? wink
                    1. 0
                      1 July 2026 10: 37
                      The professionals understood perfectly well that a duel with any of the eight Japanese BRK-kr would have to be fought on the retreat, because the Bayan was inferior to any of the eight Japanese BRK-kr, both in terms of firepower and armor protection.

                      Yes, that's certainly true, but why engage in dueling in reconnaissance? And his "skin" is reinforced for "force majeure" circumstances...
                      1. 0
                        1 July 2026 11: 00
                        Quote: Ragnar
                        Yes, this is undoubtedly true, but why should we engage in dueling distances in reconnaissance?

                        Naval dueling is a one-on-one tactical confrontation (ship versus ship or submarine versus submarine, submarine versus ship).

                        What do you understand as the dueling distances of such a fight?
                      2. 0
                        1 July 2026 12: 23
                        And this is undoubtedly true... Only "Bayan" is not a duelist... He is a scout...
                      3. 0
                        1 July 2026 14: 28
                        In a situation where a reconnaissance cruiser encountered an enemy reconnaissance cruiser, what do you think could have happened?
                      4. 0
                        1 July 2026 14: 41
                        Well, it depends on which one... "Yoshino" is one option, "Asama" is another... And "Asama" is a reconnaissance aircraft???
                      5. +1
                        1 July 2026 16: 52
                        In a situation where two reconnaissance cruisers of warring states meet, one can probably expect a duel to take place between these cruisers?

                        In the case of a hypothetical encounter between the Bayan and the Yoshino, the Yoshino would have to try to avoid this battle, and if that were not possible, it would have to fight while retreating, wouldn't it?

                        In the event of a hypothetical encounter between the "Bayan" and the "Asama", the "Bayan" would have to try to avoid this battle, and if that were not possible, it would have to fight while retreating, wouldn't it?
                        And is "Asama" a reconnaissance aircraft???

                        A universal squadron-class cruiser. Along with the Garibaldi-class cruisers, one of the first successful universal squadron-class cruiser designs.

                        With the outbreak of war, he temporarily reinforced the squadron formed from the 4th battle detachment of armored cruisers of the 2nd squadron of the United Fleet and the 9th and 14th detachments of destroyers, designed to block/destroy the Varyag and Koreets, and ensure the Japanese landing in Chemulpo.

                        In March 1904, he took part in the first campaign to Vladivostok and the shelling of the city.

                        Participated in artillery battles of squadrons in the Yellow Sea and at Tsushima (at Tsushima as part of the 2nd combat detachment of the United Fleet).

                        In the autumn of 1914, he was involved in the search and pursuit of the German cruiser squadron under Count Maximilian von Spee in the Pacific Ocean. From August to September 1914, he combed the Mariana and Caroline Islands to deprive the German squadron of supplies. Later, together with the battleship Hizen, he participated in the blockade of the American port of Honolulu, which led to the internment of the German unarmored cruiser Geyer, which had taken refuge there. Later, based in Magdalena Bay (Mexico), together with the British cruisers, the battleship Australia, the light Newcastle, the battleship Izumo and the battleship Hizen, he blocked the approaches to the Panama Canal and protected shipping along the coasts of California and Mexico, in case von Spee decided to break through to the north.
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  8. 0
    30 June 2026 10: 23
    thus forming a relatively narrow cone of fragments in the direction of the projectile's trajectory.

    wait a minute
    I'm picky about this rivet
    "Force forward" is for shrapnel, which has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    In high-explosive (and classic armor-piercing) shells, only a small number of fragments fly forward (and backward), and the main mass flies along the normal, plus or minus an angle.
    that is, the "dispersion diagram" looks like a faceted donut placed on a projectile.
    By the way, because of this, "flat" shields are practically useless on openly positioned guns, regardless of their thickness - the probability of a direct hit is extremely low, and the main danger comes from explosions on the left and right
    That's why the later gun shields are "almost towers" where only the rear is open.
    1. +1
      30 June 2026 20: 58
      Quote: lodochnik2000
      "Force forward" is for shrapnel, which has absolutely nothing to do with it.
      In high-explosive (and classic armor-piercing) shells, only a small number of fragments fly forward (and backward), and the main mass flies along the normal, plus or minus an angle.

      The respected author simply takes into account that the small explosive charges in Russian shells, which often did not fully detonate, led to the following:

      a) the shell body was destroyed into a relatively small number of large fragments;
      b) these relatively large fragments did not receive a significant radial component of the dispersion velocity from the explosion of the explosive.

      As a result, during the explosion, the fragment velocity along the shell's hull's motion vector prior to the explosion was significantly higher than the velocity of the fragments traveling laterally, much less backwards, from the explosive charge's detonation. The main stream of fragments was precisely a "sheaf," a cone-shaped, expanding fragment with an acute angle. The recorded damage to the Japanese ships, in fact, did not demonstrate any other mechanism for the dispersion of fragments from Russian shells that penetrated bulkheads.
      that is, the "dispersion diagram" looks like a faceted donut placed on a projectile.
      by the way

      This was for shells with a different, much higher explosive filling factor and with full detonation of the high explosive, a phenomenon not even typical of Japanese shells from 1904-1905. In this case, fragments acquired a radial velocity of over 1000 m/s, i.e., significantly greater than the shell's terminal velocity at the moment of its explosion. Individual fragments from the base of the shell in this case even flew backward at speeds of up to several hundred meters per second. Illustration: