Military Review

20 percent for dodging

325
In recent years, quite a few citizens have managed to grow up in our country, who, after the question "did you serve in the army?" Smile with a frank spite and answer in the spirit: "I was not a fool - I retreated." And after all, it is noteworthy that, in their opinion, this very “retreat” should provoke all-around warm support from those around them: they say, you see what a smart young man is; at the time when the “fools” gave their constitutional duty, he fingered the whole state.


Naturally, after such words no other feelings appear except frank neglect and anger (thank God, controlled): this is what happens - he is not a fool, but I, it turns out, is a fool along with millions of others who have gone through the army school, but they "- the heroes of our time, or what? .. From 18 to 27 years to run from the military office, hide behind linden certificates, writing stories about family pacifism, burn agendas, part with visits to grandparents in remote villages, give the paw to the head of the conscription commission - and all this in order to then announce his outstanding mind, which allowed to leave the call.

Neglect of such people - a feeling, of course, is decisive, but against its background thoughts and a slightly different nature appear. You think, and what, in fact, sanctions in our country are provided for those who, during a good ten years, "mowed down" from the service of the army? Maybe after they have reached the 27 years of such gentlemen, prosecution awaits? Maybe they are issued millions in fines? Maybe they are waiting for work? But the most surprising thing is that they don’t expect anything like it ... The current system is such that reaching the 27 anniversary is an automatic indulgence for a person who illegally avoided military conscription. The main thing is to sit out until 27, and there a bright future awaits you without any claims from the state and society, for which you didn’t hit your finger ... Not hit, but shouted at all angles that you didn’t go to the army on purpose because we have a corrupt government, and he is not going to defend, say, the oligarchy. Well - a good tale about a white bull ...

Moreover, the current trend is also associated with the support of such people: they are great here, heroes. He sat down behind Papa's purse - handsome; ran infinitely recovering in various pseudo-highs - clever ...
And the other day a bill appeared in the State Duma, which was aimed at certain sanctions against such gentlemen. Sanctions are the taxation of 20 with the% tax of those Russians who managed to escape from military service in their own time by illegal means. Recall that for all other Russians income tax is 13%.

According to the letter of this bill, those men (up to 45 years), who at one time evaded military service, without any reason for that, would be subject to additional taxation. This information was published by Rossiyskaya Gazeta, which, however, did not name the author of the bill from among Russian lawmakers.
If we talk about modern realities, then, according to the most approximate estimates, in Russia they evade military service (they evade rather than use legal deferments) about 230 of thousands of young people. The share of draft dodgers in large cities of Russia is large. In the provinces, the situation is somewhat better, perhaps because certain traditions of the older generations are strong here, in contrast to the conditions of a metropolis with an increased, let's say, spirit of written liberalism.

And, as the last practice has shown, even the benefits of enrolling older children in high schools, an increase in the money allowance and a ban on promotion in the civil service without having a registered service in the army, could not fundamentally change the situation with deviationists. And this means that the state should have gone on to develop additional measures that would help send to the troops those who are hiding behind the backs of others today.

And here, it seems, has moved from a dead center. The bill in the Duma appeared. However, it literally immediately became clear that there are forces in the state power system that do not want to exert financial pressure on draft dodgers. Who are such forces? Paradoxically, this is the Russian Government. It was from the Government that the papers came, condemning the birth of the said bill with very original arguments. It turns out that our Government sees the increase in the tax rate for those who have “retaliated” from the army are discriminatory measures, and the introduction of additional tax interest rates, it turns out, contradicts the existing approaches to the taxation of individuals.

Well, the Japanese policeman! .. Hence, evasion from conscription with a full-fledged indulgence of deviators in 27 years does not contradict anything, but an attempt to bring these same deviators to at least some responsibility, you see, is in contradiction with the law. So, forgive me, interfere, to bring our monumental legislation under a new and very sensible initiative? If the banal unwillingness to do real work, often manifested by the Russian Cabinet of Ministers, interferes, this is quickly treated. If it turns out that the disease is incurable for the current Cabinet, then the indispensable, as they say, no. And to cover your laziness or financial interest with fake care about the observance of the letter of the Tax Code is at least ridiculous ...

By the way, there were ardent opponents of the new legislative initiative in the opposition environment. One of the main opponents of the authors of the bill was the notorious human rights activist Mrs. Alekseeva. Here is a quote from the great-grandmother of the “dissenters" of the domestic spill:

In my opinion, the initiative to introduce such a tax reveals the state’s desire to rip people off for any reason. It seems that the initiators no longer know what else to tax. Give them will, and they will impose taxes on breathing and sleeping, we will pay for what we breathe and what we sleep. Why do those people who did not serve in the army have to pay higher taxes, and if, suppose, a person is released from the army, because he cannot serve for medical reasons? I am not sure that each time it will be easy for the fiscal authorities to prove the legality of their non-service. Or this tax will turn into a tax on God's gift, on talent. The young scientist went to graduate school instead of the army, and then he would have to pay tax for his commitment to science. It is incomprehensible to me, it seems to me that the state should free itself from the desire to unjustly and unreasonably rip off the population.


Referring to the age of Lyudmila Mikhailovna, we will not blame her for confusing God's gift with scrambled eggs. The authors of the bill are not going to impose additional tax on those who did not serve in the army for medical reasons, or because they took advantage of their legal right (represented a particular profession, was trained in graduate school, etc.). Speech in the bill is about deviationists, that is, people who deliberately went to the violation of the basic law of the country.

Honestly, in the past there were doubts that the human rights work of Mrs. Alekseeva was not one-sided, and now she received direct evidence of this fact. It is noteworthy that the head of the MHG did not defend those who gave their military duty, and even indirectly did not support millions of such Russian men, but once again decided to speak out in defense of those who at one time went to a clear violation of the law. As they say, know comment, Lyudmila Mikhailovna ...

But you should pay attention to the fact that the opinion of Mrs. Alekseeva this time on 100% coincided with the opinion of the Russian Government. This leads to certain thoughts. At this rate, Lyudmila Mikhailovna and to the Order of St. Apostle Andrew the First Called near ...

Now about the bill itself. It is strange that the idea of ​​the necessity of bringing at least some responsibility of the Russian draft dodgers is materializing only now. Such a bill had to be taken yesterday, and the introduction of 20% tax is even a soft option. Parliamentarians could be tougher. At least 30% as 30 silver coins ...

Apparently, it is not as yet tough for the simple reason that most of the parliamentarians themselves under the age of 45 cannot intelligibly explain why during that period when they were in draft age they didn’t have enough time to pay off their military duty Motherland.

But if such a bill in the State Duma is adopted, then this can only be applauded. The main thing is that without excesses, otherwise a parallel campaign in the style of “buy a certificate that you are not an evasionist and save 7% on taxes” may well begin under our fight against the “sticking out” ...
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  1. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 25 May 2013 07: 23 New
    42
    I didn’t give a damn what Alexeyev said and thought there, I was more interested in something else. -Will the children of our officials of all stripes, all levels of government pay taxes ????? Will the deputies themselves not serving pay taxes ????? Will the criterion be the same for all, or will ordinary people pay for the elite again?
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 25 May 2013 07: 37 New
      +8
      Quote: ....
      "I was not a fool - slanted."


      And the president will sign the decision afloat not to accept those who haven’t served at universities and fools will be transferred;
      1. svp67
        svp67 25 May 2013 07: 44 New
        +7
        Quote: Vadivak
        And the president will sign the decision afloat not to accept those who haven’t served at universities and fools will be transferred;

        In such a statement of the question, this is not real.
        - since NOT ALL young people of draft age are drafted into the Army, simply because of the presence of a certain plan, that is, the right number of people called up for military service every six months ...
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 25 May 2013 07: 55 New
          +8
          Quote: svp67
          since NOT ALL young people of draft age are drafted into the Army


          Why is there a constant shortage of draftees in the army?

          Defense Ministry officials figured out how to deal with the constant shortfall in the army. The department has developed a bill according to which former foreigners who have received citizenship of the Russian Federation will also be called up for military service.

          the bill was approved by the government in February 2013
          1. svp67
            svp67 25 May 2013 08: 25 New
            +7
            Quote: Vadivak
            Why is there a constant shortage of draftees in the army?


            Believe it or not, 98% of the departments of military commissariats fulfill the "plan", since we have long learned to manipulate numbers ... and as a result, each department is given quite real draft numbers, which it simply does not make sense to overfulfill ...
            1. elmir15
              elmir15 25 May 2013 11: 40 New
              26
              I am amazed why the "golden youth" are not drafted into the army? children of officials, ministers, wealthy parents, Bilan singers, for example, why? What are they holding us for? in the event of war, we will go to war, and they will "warmly support" the aggressors from the TV screens, they will call on volunteers to defend the Motherland on TV, and they themselves will be safe in the rear, or will be covered with rear rats, or maybe they will be thrown out of the country for the duration of the conflict. Should we shed blood for such cowards? In Israel, with calls strictly, even girls are called. Dodgers must be imprisoned, deprived of the right to vote or expelled from the country, if the deviator does not want to serve, he thereby says that he will not defend the country in cases of war, then he has no right to be called a Russian.
              1. T-73
                T-73 25 May 2013 21: 36 New
                +3
                why don't they call? appeal is mandatory for everyone. Only some are called on to give money to military commissars, and whoever does not have it - to the army. But do not expect stricter punishment for draft evaders from deputies: they do not put their children.
          2. svp67
            svp67 25 May 2013 08: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: Vadivak
            Defense Ministry officials figured out how to deal with the constant shortfall in the army

            And the "shortage" exists in reality, due to the poor demographic situation in the country, although the main "pit" has now passed, but the problem still remains ...
            1. Atlon
              Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 19 New
              +9
              Quote: svp67
              And the "shortage" exists in reality, due to the poor demographic situation in the country,

              Not true, not because of this. You just ask young people from 20 to 30 years old, who served? If earlier there were units of non-servants. now, on the contrary, units of those who served! I generally wonder, WHERE DO the recruits come from? Probably only from very remote villages ...
              1. tixon444
                tixon444 25 May 2013 09: 28 New
                22
                Quote: Atlon
                Probably only from very remote villages ...

                Right in the bullseye! My son is the only one from his class and institute who has repaid his homeland, the rest have slanted. The appeal of the 84th year of birth, Moscow. All his fellow soldiers are village children, with rare exceptions.
                1. Atlon
                  Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 43 New
                  +8
                  Quote: tixon444
                  My son is the only one from his class and institute who has repaid his homeland, the rest have slanted.

                  The time will come, and he will be proud of it, to the envy of his classmates! wink
                2. VADIMKRSK
                  VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 22: 24 New
                  +1
                  No tax, tricky ... and they will slope from it. But the benefits to the servants are real. To a young family with children - housing !!! Oil dollars for kids, future wars enough? And if you want and stiffen?
                3. bandabas
                  bandabas 26 May 2013 14: 53 New
                  0
                  I am not tree, but from the North. Murmansk region. After graduating from the military department at the LPI in 1994 took the oath. Laws changed, titles were not awarded, and in the 95th he went to serve as an ordinary (in the process a sergeant) in a training course in Sertolovo. who worked for Chechnya. Then the laws change again, and I become an officer. order of the Ministry of Defense from 29 (February twenty-ninth 1996 XNUMX g). Guess how long the order reached the unit?
              2. svp67
                svp67 25 May 2013 10: 47 New
                +2
                Quote: Atlon
                Not true, not because of this. Are you just asking young people from 20 to 30 years old who served? If earlier there were units of non-servants. now, on the contrary, units of those who served! I generally wonder, WHERE DO the recruits come from? Probably only from very remote villages.

                Well, everyone judges from their own experience, but I proceed from my own. I can say that for one called up now it is necessary, three - four, or even five, those who were not admitted to the service for medical reasons ...
                Here the question is generally very difficult, on the one hand, it is necessary to call on, and on the other hand, there are many who want to answer for the fact that a sick person got into the army and something happened to him, because if such a fact is proved, then by someone will have to answer according to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation ... and this is already completely "crazy". Indeed, immediately after arriving at the troops, the young man again goes through the military medical commission, which is very interested in finding the "bad guys" who have arrived from the military registration and enlistment offices, and each such fact of detection becomes an occasion for the prosecutor's office to check the validity of the fact of the call ...
                So, now the "slope" from the army is mainly practiced by medical workers ...
              3. Ivan.
                Ivan. 25 May 2013 10: 51 New
                +4
                Quote: Atlon
                If earlier there were units of non-servants. now, on the contrary, units of those who served!

                In my opinion, the main reason was voiced by Fedorov (a loss in the Cold War and the dictates of the winner) - the destruction of the army, including through a reduction in service life (even a 1-year fleet), a decrease in numbers from more than 5 million (USSR) to 1 million (Russia), and a decrease in the ratio of conscripts other categories, curtailing activities abroad
                etc.
                I think now the process will reverse because of the gradually restored sovereignty.
                1. panych
                  panych 25 May 2013 12: 23 New
                  +1
                  According to the norms of peacetime, the army should not exceed 1% of the country's population.
                  1. Ivan.
                    Ivan. 25 May 2013 18: 02 New
                    +7
                    Peace time? - we only dream of peace! The ratio of the length of borders to the number of people has increased, the country must contain dozens of military bases, return influence: Cuba, South America, the Middle East, the skeleton, Europe (if it does not want to be a raw material base), hot spots in the former USSR. The Israeli army in peacetime is three times larger, by ratio, the Russian army.
                    The size of the contract may not have to, but our draft should be about 1.5% and not less than 1.5 years of service.
                  2. AleksUkr
                    AleksUkr 26 May 2013 08: 38 New
                    +1
                    I would like to see these norms of peacetime. Moreover, we have 140 million people in Russia. The declared size of the army is 1 million. Practically, no more than 700 thousand serve. THIS IS THE REALITIES OF OUR "democracy".
                    VACANCY PLACES IN THE ARMY IS!
                  3. Ghenxnumx
                    Ghenxnumx 29 May 2013 10: 30 New
                    0
                    Quote: Panych
                    According to the norms of peacetime, the army should not exceed 1% of the country's population.

                    Better to let 5% in the army soldier Homeland is protected than 20% of unemployed and bureaucrats negative

                    By the way, only officials are shown in the picture, and there are also secretary cooks and other servants, and they are also paid salaries from the budget.
                    It is a paradox that in the USSR there were 13 million state employees, including the army, in the whole country, and now there are 33 million in the Russian Federation - is not that so?
                2. Setrac
                  Setrac 25 May 2013 18: 00 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Ivan.
                  headcount decrease from more than 5 mln (USSR) to 1 mln (Russia)

                  Do not forget that the entire Warsaw block (360 million people) contained the Soviet Army, that Russia alone (140 million people) contained the Russian army, a reduction in numbers was inevitable!
                  1. Ivan.
                    Ivan. 25 May 2013 18: 54 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Setrac
                    downsizing was inevitable!

                    Twice but not five, with the destruction of bases outside, the fleet, etc. You can do something about the maintenance of the USSR army by the Warsaw bloc, otherwise I only know about the military and material assistance of the USSR to Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc. Russia does contain its current army, but if it had not been plundered cunningly, the different Feds would have been enough for another two or three of the same.
              4. svp67
                svp67 25 May 2013 10: 51 New
                +1
                Quote: Atlon
                I generally wonder, WHERE DO the recruits come from? Probably only from very remote villages ...


                You know, if you look at the number of conscripts, then rural departments of military commissariats give fewer conscripts, the main replenishment comes from cities. in particular, in my city, when the "call-up" was not up to the task, they were "invited" to medical commissions directly from the classrooms of the institutes ...
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 25 May 2013 18: 03 New
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  You know, if you look at the number of conscripts, then rural departments of military commissariats give fewer conscripts, the main replenishment comes from cities. in particular, in my city, when the "call-up" was not up to the task, they were "invited" to medical commissions directly from the classrooms of the institutes ...

                  Firstly, the urban population is more banal than the rural one. Secondly, not every village has a military registration and enlistment office; many conscripts from the village are assigned to urban military registration and enlistment offices.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 25 May 2013 21: 07 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Setrac
                    Firstly, the urban population is more banal than the rural one. Secondly, not every village has a military registration and enlistment office; many conscripts from the village are assigned to urban military registration and enlistment offices.

                    I'll tell you a little "secret".
                    In modern Russia, military registration and enlistment offices are located ONLY in republican, regional and regional cities, since, after the next reform, only "Departments of the Military Commissariat of a region (republic, region) in a particular municipality (region, city)" are below, and it may still be, that this department works for several municipalities (districts, cities) ... So, in the villages there are definitely no military commissariats departments, in the villages there are still ...
              5. svp67
                svp67 25 May 2013 11: 12 New
                0
                Quote: Atlon
                Not true, not because of this


                Well then explain this point from the statistical report, one of the municipalities:

                The number of graduates of municipal educational institutions participating in
                unified state exam, man
                - 2010 year - 3 221,0
                - 2011 year - 2 993,0
                - 2012 year - 2 318,0
                - 2013 year (plan) - 2 646,0
                - 2014 year (plan) - 2 814,0
                1. Drednout
                  Drednout 25 May 2013 19: 28 New
                  +1
                  Don't forget to write Paul. For the number is understandable, but how many "m" are there?
              6. Drednout
                Drednout 25 May 2013 19: 27 New
                +3
                But on February 23, all drunk and happy + non-working day.
                Stopped even celebrating.
              7. Tverichanka
                Tverichanka 25 May 2013 23: 37 New
                +2
                Quote: Atlon
                quite deaf villages.

                In quite remote villages, it’s not like conscripts, there are no longer any old people left there.
          3. Kommunisten
            Kommunisten 1 June 2013 01: 21 New
            0
            there were few clashes with Dagestanis and Chicha in the army, now also Uzbeks with Tajiks.
        2. bezumnyiPIT
          bezumnyiPIT 25 May 2013 16: 31 New
          +1
          Personally, I am not fit for service because of problems with my heart - what do I now study in vocational schools?
          1. Larus
            Larus 25 May 2013 16: 36 New
            +4
            If the problems are serious, then there is nothing to do in the army. And there are those who come off every weekend and do not see problems. Yes, and in the army there are different parts in which they can serve the same physically with restrictions on marches.
          2. Alyoha
            Alyoha 26 May 2013 12: 44 New
            -10
            Ask the military commissar to wash footcloths and underpants for healthy guys, my bucket))) We shouldn’t drink and smoke, but we’ll go in for sports. If you were born with problems, ask your parents, then they smoked or drank. In general, even if you are a real kalichi, go to serve as a signalman or an operator, there are no loads, they work with your head.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. bezumnyiPIT
              bezumnyiPIT 27 May 2013 18: 44 New
              0
              And where did he serve?
              1. Alyoha
                Alyoha 27 May 2013 22: 24 New
                +1
                In Severomorsk, Space Forces. According to A1 (validity group), because he did not drink or smoke, father and mother did not smoke, did not drink. And the boys and B3 served as operators, signalmen, mechanics and cooks. In civilian life, you get more tired than in an army, there for a prepared person the lafa is full and your heart will not strain much, but for alcoholic nicotines, amphetamine cockerels, passive spice deer, death))) Therefore, "otmazon" is only cancer or a cardio stimulant in heart. Will you climb on a woman ?!) Your heart on a woman will get tired more strongly than on a mass sports, so all this is "otmazon".
      2. anip
        anip 25 May 2013 08: 43 New
        +6
        Quote: Vadivak
        And the president will sign the decision afloat not to accept those who haven’t served at universities and fools will be transferred;

        Funny.
        Based on the realities, the sons of moneybags will buy themselves any necessary documents that they have served. Moreover, the sons of moneybags will generally receive (and even now many receive) higher education abroad.
        1. O_RUS
          O_RUS 25 May 2013 08: 52 New
          +2
          Andrey Vadatursky
          Father - the founder of the Nibulon company Alexey Vadatursky
          Therefore, the founder’s son was seriously prepared for business management. Andrei Vadatursky received a technical education in his homeland, and in 1997-2000 he studied at the London School of Economics. He combined his studies in England with the work of the manager of the commercial department of Nibulon.

          Konstantin Kolesnikov
          Father - Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Infrastructure Boris Kolesnikov
          Konstantin Kolesnikov switched to a graduate course in economics at Moscow State University. Of the 80 students enrolled in his stream, only 50 continue their studies. “If he is still there, then they are satisfied with him,” said the student’s father, Deputy Prime Minister Boris Kolesnikov, forbes.ua.
      3. reichsmarshal
        reichsmarshal 25 May 2013 14: 21 New
        -11
        Yeah. And in 5-6 years we will have a lot of "goblins" with vast experience in cleaning the assortments with toothbrushes and huge show-offs "we, like, were THERE, and you, like, no". Well, and there are also a lot of vocational school deviators. And in another 10-15 years the country will be left without doctors, teachers, engineers and scientists (there were about 100 boys on my course at IvGMA, only one of the "former" ones: this is how our servicemen go to universities!). You can spit as much as you like about those who left for the cordon (I am a doctor, if anything, I didn’t leave, and I don’t want to, despite my hatred of all our bureaucratic morons) and admire the medveput.
        1. bezumnyiPIT
          bezumnyiPIT 25 May 2013 16: 36 New
          +3
          do not bend into a ring, my friend, although judging by your nickname, this is predictable. Do you like ponies and anime?
          1. reichsmarshal
            reichsmarshal 25 May 2013 22: 20 New
            +1
            Not at all! I just think that before raising the issue of army reform, you must first remake the country so that it has something to fight for. In the USSR under Stalin it was. In the Russian Federation, I do not see this. When a person does not see the point of fighting for his homeland, he begins to fight for himself. Most often it happens when it’s personally forbidden to fight for oneself personally (in the USA it’s allowed, therefore everyone, even lousy niggas) is ready to die for their star-striped homeland.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 25 May 2013 22: 35 New
              +2
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              reichsmarshal

              My friend, you’re a racist!
            2. Tverichanka
              Tverichanka 25 May 2013 23: 51 New
              +4
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              When a person does not see the point of fighting for their homeland,

              Sorry, but he is NOT A MAN anymore if he needs some special meaning in order to fight for his Motherland. They fight for it not because there is a bun with butter, but simply because it is its own, native land, where the graves of parents are, the house , children. For many centuries of the existence of the country, did you think there were no offended and dissatisfied? But you went and fought. Will you protect your mother only if she is beautiful and rich? And if she is sick? And if she has a bad character? .. . That's just it, that it’s all unimportant. So it is with the Motherland.
            3. 73petia
              73petia 26 May 2013 11: 10 New
              +1
              Quote: reichsmarshal
              you must first redo the country so that it has something to fight for.
              Hire the Turks to remake our country, and then we will live in this "RFii" and maybe we will honor it (RFii) with the service of our loved ones in her (RFi) army (but of course, we didn't find ourselves in the garbage ).
            4. bezumnyiPIT
              bezumnyiPIT 27 May 2013 18: 45 New
              -1
              For lousy niggas minus
        2. VADIMKRSK
          VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 22: 42 New
          0
          The best thing in Russian is to prohibit conscription and to join the army, and even more so to the Navy, by collecting a lot of information, collecting a bunch of certificates about perfect health and a normal psyche, from a narcologist, from all friends who are not pregnant, from friends who are not fagot, recommendation of EDROS ...
      4. Harleone
        Harleone 25 May 2013 20: 09 New
        -8
        Well, then, do you need 18-year-old boys and an uneducated army with secondary education in the ranks?
        1. redwar6
          redwar6 25 May 2013 23: 12 New
          +4
          My grandfather, at the age of 18, was attacking with a rifle in his hands, and, you know, nothing. He took place in life, despite the wound and shell shock.
        2. Tverichanka
          Tverichanka 25 May 2013 23: 57 New
          0
          Quote: Harleone
          Well, then, do you need 18-year-old boys and an uneducated army with secondary education in the ranks?

          Something I don’t remember, To especially complain about the lack of education of the army of the Second World War. But there were some. But they won. We don’t always need education, but intelligence and decency are always.
          1. Harleone
            Harleone 26 May 2013 00: 32 New
            -4
            This decency in grandfathers in the barracks in bulk. And the experience of the Great Patriotic War is not applicable here - there was a war, there was an idea, there was nowhere to retreat. Now it would be nice to have not young men in the army, but more or less mature men. And the fact that the guys do not want to join the army is the fault of the state. Personally, I do not have any patriotic feelings for this state.
            1. ultra
              ultra 26 May 2013 21: 02 New
              +3
              Quote: Harleone
              Personally, I do not have any patriotic feelings for this state.

              But this does not apply to the state, there is such a word Homeland, although for you, as I understand it, this is an empty phrase.
          2. Babon
            Babon 26 May 2013 01: 52 New
            +3
            Tverichanka
            Times are changing, now it’s not going to happen in WWII. Modern soldiers should be able to use the latest military equipment. How many new things have appeared.
            1. 73petia
              73petia 26 May 2013 11: 27 New
              +2
              Quote: Babon
              Modern soldiers should be able to use the latest military equipment

              Modern soldiers must first "be" first. Secondly, they must be able to follow orders (obey). And then they will be taught "to use the latest military equipment."
      5. zvereok
        zvereok 26 May 2013 20: 44 New
        0
        Quote: Vadivak
        Quote: ....
        "I was not a fool - slanted."


        And the president will sign the decision afloat not to accept those who haven’t served at universities and fools will be transferred;


        Without mortal: "Fools in Russia have been saved for 100 years."
    2. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 25 May 2013 07: 59 New
      +5
      Quote: Alexander Romanov

      And the other day a bill appeared in the State Duma, which was aimed at certain sanctions against such gentlemen. Sanctions are the taxation of 20 with the% tax of those Russians who managed to escape from military service in their own time by illegal means. Recall that for all other Russians income tax is 13%.

      According to the letter of this bill, those men (up to 45 years), who at one time evaded military service, without any reason for that, would be subject to additional taxation. This information was published by Rossiyskaya Gazeta, which, however, did not name the author of the bill from among Russian lawmakers.


      I did not understand the humor. And why not make such people go and serve with the adoption of the relevant law (subject to passing the medical commission)?
    3. zvereok
      zvereok 25 May 2013 08: 09 New
      12
      Took out of context the words of Pashka Mersede .... Grachev "I will take Grozny with the forces of one airborne regiment", "If it consists of the children of the deputies." I mean, the children of legislators apparently do not plan to pay taxes in this country.
      1. VADIMKRSK
        VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 22: 45 New
        +1
        In our country.
    4. redwolf_13
      redwolf_13 25 May 2013 08: 21 New
      +7
      Oh, I feel that they will create a "parquet regiment of his Greatness" in the Arbat military district so that the kids "serve" and then they will not tax the state. they took their service. Six months ago, I already saw a privileged company of offspring in one unit. The children's lafa is full of their officers almost in their arms.
      1. zvereok
        zvereok 25 May 2013 09: 13 New
        +4
        Quote: redwolf_13
        Oh, I sense what will be created in the Arbat military district "the parquet regiment of his Greatness"


        This in general in our history has been more than once and not only in ours. There have always been Elite Armed Forces manned by the aristocracy. And in our country, it seems like the aristocracy has formed.

        For example, the Preobrazhensky Regiment, previously one of the Comic Regiments. It was partially staffed with friends and the environment of young Peter. And nothing - won the right to wear red stockings or leggings, I don’t remember how this gardeba was called - as a sign of standing knee-deep in blood. Only there they served seemed sooooo long. Plus, Peter's friends seemed to be officers.
        1. bezumnyiPIT
          bezumnyiPIT 25 May 2013 16: 41 New
          +2
          The first fifty years, and then they began to record noble cubs from childhood
          1. zvereok
            zvereok 26 May 2013 21: 51 New
            0
            Quote: bezumnyiPIT
            The first fifty years, and then they began to record noble cubs from childhood


            We would have 50 years, too, quite a term. Country - 20 years.
        2. revnagan
          revnagan 25 May 2013 17: 14 New
          +5
          Quote: zvereok
          For example, the Preobrazhensky Regiment, previously one of the Comic Regiments. It was partially staffed with friends and the environment of young Peter. And nothing - won the right to wear red stockings or leggings, I do not remember how this gardeba was called - as a sign of standing knee-deep in blood.

          Yeah, he was looking into the water, not only Preobrazhensky, but Absheron, as a sign that they stood knee-deep in blood at the battle of Kunesdorf and stood up, while Preobrazhensky, the old beast, parquet sharkuns, didn’t crawl under bullets after Peter ...
      2. bezumnyiPIT
        bezumnyiPIT 25 May 2013 16: 40 New
        +1
        My friend, the Airborne Forces soldier, who served as a signalman, fucked up with fellow soldiers of such Lafanchiks (their daddies wanted to build up a half in the army) - not a single son of gold was not demobilized in their company, either in a transfer or in a hospital
      3. VADIMKRSK
        VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 22: 49 New
        +1
        It's true? Relocation to Mirny or Tiksi Island. To be distinguished from Tahiti ...
    5. Professor
      Professor 25 May 2013 08: 38 New
      +3
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Will the children of our officials of all stripes, all levels of government pay taxes ?????

      Sorry for the personal question, but you yourself served in what regiment?
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 25 May 2013 13: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: Professor

        Sorry for the personal question, but you yourself served in what regiment?

        What specifically interests you professor, part number, military branch, place of service? I’ve already laid out both on the website. The last time you’ve been inattentive.
        1. Professor
          Professor 25 May 2013 13: 14 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          What specifically interests you professor, part number, military branch, place of service? I’ve already laid out both on the website. The last time you’ve been inattentive.

          Well, excuse me, as I missed one of 13091 of your comments on the site. So, regarding the shelf?
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 25 May 2013 13: 50 New
            10
            Quote: Professor
            So, regarding the shelf?

            Military unit 26942 Kamchatka Or were you interested in my latest comments on working in OKP and access to information? wink So pass to the Mossad that I do not sell Motherland tongue
          2. korm-yurii
            korm-yurii 25 May 2013 16: 18 New
            +8
            And by the way, I served in Mongolia. In our time, they looked at an unserviceable person as if they were sick. Without a normal military card, you cannot pass a medical examination. Therefore, all the "shoals" carefully concealed their joint.
    6. Maks111
      Maks111 25 May 2013 08: 57 New
      +4
      Do you understand why youth does not want to serve? They served in the Soviet army. There the army could safely be called an army. They left for the Soviet army as boys, and came as men. Now what? Now he’ll leave healthy, he will come sick. He will leave as a teetotaler and come to be an alcoholic. If we were taught to fight in our army, to really fight as before sending to the war, then I think that the line would be in the military enlistment offices.
      1. zvereok
        zvereok 25 May 2013 09: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: Max111
        Now what? Now he’ll leave healthy, he will come sick.


        Now, with all these horrors, it seems to have become easier, and to serve - a year.
        1. bezumnyiPIT
          bezumnyiPIT 25 May 2013 16: 43 New
          +2
          But the reputation of the army is already corrupted. This is sad
      2. Atlon
        Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 23 New
        +8
        Quote: Max111
        Now what? Now he’ll leave healthy, he will come sick. Will leave a teetotaler come an alcoholic.

        How do you know this? The committee of soldiers' mothers sang? Or near-war TV series have seen enough?

        Quote: Max111
        If in our army they were taught to fight, to really fight as before being sent to the war, then I think that the line would be in the military commissariats.

        Where yourself and when did you serve? And did they serve?
        1. ivachum
          ivachum 25 May 2013 09: 54 New
          10
          "He leaves as a teetotaler and comes as an alcoholic."

          Interesting ... and they forcefully pour it on him, turns out? Recently, "youth" were accepted ... they have already served for 5-6 months, about 10-15% according to the test results are categorically NOT ALLOWED to serve with weapons !!! About 5% in the tests indicated (themselves, no one forced) that they have experience of using drugs, about 2% had attempted suicide before being drafted into the Armed Forces, etc. About alcohol abuse, the question is not even raised - almost half openly declare this, another 15-20 percent do not admit ... This is how the military enlistment offices fulfill the plan ... And then these "warriors" begin their year-long cruise along the "golden ring" - from part to part - the cycle of fools.
          1. Atlon
            Atlon 25 May 2013 10: 07 New
            14
            Quote: ivachum
            It’s interesting ... and they pour it by force, does it work?

            Of course! The army is to blame for the fact that at the age of 12 they already smoke, drink (first beer) and fuck! laughing
            1. svp67
              svp67 25 May 2013 11: 37 New
              +4
              Quote: Atlon
              The army is to blame


              The state of the Army is the brightest cast of the state of society ...
            2. baltika-18
              baltika-18 25 May 2013 11: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: Atlon
              Of course! The army is to blame for the fact that at the age of 12 they already smoke, drink (first beer) and fuck!

              Not an army, Pavel. A system created in the 90s, and skillfully supported by Putin and his comrades.
              1. Tverichanka
                Tverichanka 26 May 2013 00: 18 New
                +3
                Quote: baltika-18
                Not the Army, Pavel. A System Created in the 90s and Skilfully Supported by Putin

                Well, yes, well, yes .... Did not want or did not manage to raise their children and the system is to blame, of course! Just for some reason, many have grown up with normal children - they don't drink, they don't expand, they work, and they grew up absolutely at the same time as the rest. What is the explanation for this? And such that the parents watched, brought up, including by their own example. So it is not necessary from a sore head to a healthy one. "What kind of seed is such a tribe."
            3. Larus
              Larus 25 May 2013 16: 49 New
              +1
              og, they are preparing for the army, so that later there would be someone to push their dependencies on)))
        2. builder
          builder 25 May 2013 11: 40 New
          +5
          About Committee:

          The Committee of Soldiers' Mothers expressed its dissatisfaction with the resignation of Serdyukov, according to the Russian News Service.
          “He carried out a reform in the army so that it is almost impossible to roll back to the“ scoop ”. The last step remained - to switch to the contract service of privates and sergeants. And here they remove Serdyukov, ”said Valentina Melnikova, executive secretary of the Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers.
          She added that human rights activists regret that Serdyukov was not allowed to bring the reform to its logical conclusion.
          1. Esso
            Esso 25 May 2013 12: 28 New
            +6
            In order for us to adopt such laws, the first thing is to lower the salaries of officials, especially in the State Duma, whoever wants to work for such a salary, let them work, weed out lobsters, they get current for money, they sleep, they ride on flashing lights, they don’t even read about laws , and they click on the buttons, then only encourage money with those who really bring real benefits to their work, then corruption must be fought and, having adopted this amendment, everyone will run to the doctors to make the legal right not to serve or work for private companies, where most the salary is black, such firms set min salaries, white and pay taxes from it, and here we are deducted from 5-6 thousand how much 13% of this amount is about 800-950 rubles. Not very much. Moreover, an ordinary person from the oil industry Doesn’t get anything, only gasoline at a price of about 30 rubles. And the excuse from the authorities, they say the equipment is old and gasoline is so expensive. Yes, in some regions the equipment at the enterprises is new and the quality is benzene, they are robbing the people as they can, but they are definitely not slipping gasoline into the Euroquality. That's when the lawyers are correcting all this, then you can safely demand something from the people!
          2. vilenich
            vilenich 25 May 2013 12: 36 New
            +7
            Quote: stroitel
            said Executive Secretary of the Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers Valentina Melnikova.

            And who is interested in their opinion about the reforms carried out in the army, except for themselves! No need to poke your nose in matters that have no idea. They have one dream to cancel their urgent service, and all the boys are closer to their mother’s skirt!
            1. Tverichanka
              Tverichanka 26 May 2013 00: 21 New
              +1
              Quote: vilenich
              and all the boys closer to the mother's skirt!

              And all the boys in drug addicts, gays, dancers ......
          3. Larus
            Larus 25 May 2013 16: 52 New
            +5
            What percentage of their children did these committees otmazyatsya. The moaning whiners were already reached, which you can’t shake from the computer soon and their mothers are assholes.
          4. Garrin
            Garrin 25 May 2013 22: 36 New
            +4
            Quote: stroitel
            She added that human rights activists regret that Serdyukov was not allowed to bring the reform to its logical conclusion.

            This read: "Failed to KILL the army to the end."
          5. ded10041948
            ded10041948 26 May 2013 22: 20 New
            0
            Are they satisfied with anything at all? Ay-yay-yay, the boys were not allowed to celebrate their birthday ("talk" with the girls, etc.) Apart from squeals - no sense. But what if the "successful manager" was given the opportunity to bring the reform to the end? Did she even think who she would be and what her son would do?
        3. loisop
          loisop 25 May 2013 12: 17 New
          +5
          Well, here's my brother-in-law, for example. He was called on New Year's Eve, drove to Syzran, where the "buyer" sent him (or rather, almost a train) to Khabarovsk. We drove for a week in unheated carriages. Cold, dampness. As a result, as soon as we arrived, almost everyone went to the hospital. Someone has meningitis, someone else has something. My brother-in-law has kidneys (the disease is called something in Latin, now I won't tell you how. If anyone is very interested, I'll ask my mother-in-law and write it off). In a short period of time 2 clinical deaths. The Ministry of Defense called the mother-in-law to Khabarovsk (well, in the sense of the brother-in-law's mother). As a little oklemalsya, so the wheelchair-plane-Moscow (Golitsyno, hospital). In the hospital, the condition began to deteriorate - a gurney-car-Botkin (such a hospital, in Moscow time, for civilians).
          In short, I won’t paint everything until the day. The general result is that my wife’s brother died in the hospital. About 1,5 years after the draft. Never having been at home.
          KSM, by the way, despite its general wrecking vector, in this particular case greatly helped with the knocking out of drugs and transfer to the Botkin hospital, whose doctors directly said that he would not have been able to last long in the Golitsyn hospital.
          The mother-in-law's complaints were (and are) only to the staff of the Golitsyn hospital, especially to the head physician.
          You can consider it a series.
          1. vilenich
            vilenich 25 May 2013 12: 45 New
            +3
            Quote: loisop
            He was called on New Year's Eve, drove to Syzran, where the "buyer" sent him (more precisely, almost a train) to Khabarovsk. We drove for a week in unheated carriages. Cold, dampness.

            Quite a strange time of the call "on New Year's Eve". And one more question, what does the army have to do with heating the cars?
            1. hiocraib
              hiocraib 25 May 2013 12: 50 New
              +3
              Quote: vilenich
              And one more question, what does the army have to do with heating cars?

              the same as for feeding, housing, washing, etc.? or not?
              1. vilenich
                vilenich 25 May 2013 18: 21 New
                +3
                Quote: hiocraib
                the same as for feeding, housing, washing, etc.? or not?

                The army was responsible for the above, it is now outsourcing, but the army has never been responsible for heating the cars, except in armored trains ...
                1. hiocraib
                  hiocraib 25 May 2013 18: 27 New
                  +2
                  Quote: vilenich
                  the army has never been responsible for heating cars

                  that's just not to look for excuses!
                  who is responsible for transporting soldiers from the military registration and enlistment office to the duty station?
                  1. vilenich
                    vilenich 26 May 2013 19: 23 New
                    0
                    Quote: hiocraib
                    who is responsible for transporting soldiers from the military registration and enlistment office to the duty station?

                    For the organization of transportation, naturally military! But you do not hang on the military all the dogs! Do you really blame the military again for a train crash! I deeply doubt that the recruits were transported in huts, but even if so, the railway is responsible for equipping the stoves, fuel supply, etc.
                    1. hiocraib
                      hiocraib 26 May 2013 19: 31 New
                      0
                      Quote: vilenich
                      For the organization of transportation, naturally military!

                      Well, how wonderful!

                      Quote: vilenich
                      Do you really blame the military again for a train crash!

                      while no one accuses anyone of the disaster. but some people are trying to chat ...

                      Quote: vilenich
                      the railway is responsible for the equipment with stoves, fuel supply, etc.

                      and the commander is responsible for providing a wagon where all this is available and works. or not?
          2. VADIMKRSK
            VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 23: 04 New
            +1
            E-May damn nafig because if all at once for the same ... I personally sympathize with you. A comment on almost all articles.
        4. Maks111
          Maks111 25 May 2013 12: 37 New
          0
          How do you know this? The committee of soldiers' mothers sang? Or near-war TV series have seen enough?
          No, one of the commandos read the blog.
        5. bezumnyiPIT
          bezumnyiPIT 25 May 2013 16: 43 New
          0
          Well, why do not want to serve?
      3. Larus
        Larus 25 May 2013 16: 47 New
        +3
        Yeah, and you probably don’t know how many civilians get drunk, get killed, etc. just in these years, that isolated cases in the army overshadowed you all.
        Even after serving in such an army where I did not regret some outfits and work, the only thing was that there really were no bad exercises and even anxiety was not anxiety and they managed to brush their teeth and wash and after that they received the machine gun, because. turn))))
        1. sergo0000
          sergo0000 25 May 2013 19: 47 New
          +2
          Quote: Larus
          I and after the machine received, because. turn))))

          By the way about the machine. winked The last two years of schooling, in Soviet times, the children were intensively prepared for military service. There were such lessons in the school curriculum. NVP-Initial Military Training. Prepared both mentally and physically. But the emphasis was mainly on the psychological component. The state was preparing to make the child a soldier defending his constitutional order. By the time he arrived at the recruiting station, the former student knew the Military and Guard Regulations, understood the ranks, knew how to disassemble and assemble the machine gun according to the standard, knew the size of his gas mask. And most importantly, he was psychologically prepared for such a phenomenon in the army, as "hazing", not in its perverted form of course. And what films about paratroopers and border guards, flyers and sailors we watched then! fellow
          And in my opinion, no matter what punitive laws are adopted against draft evaders, without this component, they are doomed!
          Well, the rich will always buy any help for himself.
      4. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 26 May 2013 00: 09 New
        +3
        I don’t know what YOU are about. My son joined the army healthy and returned healthy and had no problems with alcohol. And he served in the Northern Fleet.
    7. Mitek
      Mitek 25 May 2013 12: 07 New
      +7
      I didn’t eat, 20 percent will be for those who dodge without a good reason? Then the law is about nothing. Very few people stupidly run around. Most stupidly buy a warrior. Therefore, the law is about nothing.
    8. T-100
      T-100 25 May 2013 17: 01 New
      +1
      !!! All the sons of Stalin served and participated in the Second World War, one was even captured later for which the Germans wanted to exchange Paulus, but Stalin said that field marshals were not exchanged for lieutenants! And Khrushchev’s son is the same as his dad. Nikita Sergeyevich had to run to Stalin twice so that his son would not be shot, the first time because of the murder of someone there while intoxicated, the second time for theft, it seems, but the third time he wasn’t shot !!! Khrushchev at the 20 Congress did a lot of things about Stalin and gave a lot of myths !!!!
      1. stranik72
        stranik72 25 May 2013 19: 37 New
        +2
        T-100
        minus you, no matter how you feel about Khrushchev, one of his sons died defending his homeland, and everything else has nothing to do with the essence.
      2. bezumnyiPIT
        bezumnyiPIT 27 May 2013 18: 49 New
        0
        We are not talking about Stalin and Khrushchev now, mind you
    9. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 25 May 2013 18: 25 New
      0
      "Will the children of our officials of all stripes, all levels of government pay taxes ?????"
      For information, the bulk of the officials’s children either serve or go to the military department.
      There are not a few exceptions, but not even 50% of the total mass.
    10. Alekseev
      Alekseev 25 May 2013 18: 43 New
      +6
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Will the deputies themselves not serving pay taxes

      Tooting.
      But how was the draft problem solved, say, at one time in Germany?
      The military historian V. Veremev gives the following picture: “Who will agree to voluntarily pull the soldier's strap ...? A paradox? Incredible?
      By no means.
      ... worth a glimpse into the German laws of the time. And it turned out that a person who has not served in the army (regardless of the reasons) cannot own land, real estate, serve in state institutions, work in state enterprises, elect and be elected to local elected authorities. No property can be bequeathed to him. In a word, who did not serve in the army - a second-class citizen. His rights are limited.

      And besides, the army of soldiers is required less than there are young people of military age. So also restrictions existed on the number of volunteers, which the regiment commander had the right to accept. For example, in artillery there can be no more than four volunteers in a battery.

      So getting into the conscription service in that Germany was a great success. And the voluntary service still had to squeeze through.

      From the author. And that, quite rightly. If you own something, then you yourself must protect and protect your property. Those. this is actually a social contract - all owners, in turn, for some time break away from their immediate affairs and with arms in their hands protect their property. If someone has not done this, then he cannot be the owner.

      In modern Russia, we have everything topsy-turvy. Anyone who has made a feeding trough from the country does not want to defend this very own feeding trough. "
      Perhaps the principle is true, maybe it doesn’t have to be so cool ... But the introduction of such laws has long been asking for Russia for us.
      1. VADIMKRSK
        VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 23: 11 New
        0
        To the army by pulling.
    11. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka 25 May 2013 22: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      I didn’t give a damn what Alexeyev said and thought there, I was more interested in something else. -Will the children of our officials of all stripes, all levels of government pay taxes ????? Will the deputies themselves not serving pay taxes ????? Will the criterion be the same for all, or will ordinary people pay for the elite again?

      They will never be.
    12. brelok
      brelok 26 May 2013 06: 21 New
      +1
      Everything can be simpler: to deny working for the civil service to people who have not served in the VS. The state apparatus will be cleared at 80 percent. The same thing with a thought. And the problem will be solved.
    13. Krilion
      Krilion 26 May 2013 09: 19 New
      0
      levying a fee for evading the constitutional debt is just a half measure .... for such things you just need to deprive citizenship (without the right to restoration) and everything will work out right away ...
    14. Kommunisten
      Kommunisten 1 June 2013 01: 16 New
      0
      Exactly, what the hell is the motherland? Where did you see her? )) She ended 21 years ago. And now the country is a bunch of degenerates, which if something happens I’m not going to defend, I’ll go wet them myself, mainly especially snatching them.
      Although I’m more interested in something else - will we ever have a normal draft army, at least with a salary, well, at least 10 krai. rubles per month for our money?
      This thousand of them that they give some kind of mockery per month, don’t they understand how much a healthy man who is fit for service earns a year? It’s even funny for a remote village.
      Take 25 thousand a month - 300 thousand comes out a year. Let them compensate for at least half, otherwise this is some kind of slavery, veiled by the currently degenerate and absurd words - "repay your debt to your homeland."
      Let them first make their homeland out of this garbage dump, there you look and they themselves will run the debt to pay back.
      Of course, I don’t really have anything against the army, but now I’ve thought about whether to spend a year with smokers and thumping (90%) degenerates, who in the same 90% do not play sports. Something tells me that without serving in the army, I will be more suitable for military operations than they are.
  2. Komodo
    Komodo 25 May 2013 07: 24 New
    +4
    That's it for you fellow laughing laughing .
    From each of your salaries or transactions 7% additional tax laughing
  3. aszzz888
    aszzz888 25 May 2013 07: 25 New
    14
    Earlier, in the old and good times, those who had not served in the ranks of the Armed Forces were considered incomplete, poor. And they themselves never spoke about this topic. The society did not tolerate such "sluggish" people, they were despised. And now - almost a feat to "roll away" from the Army.
    "About times, about morals!"
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 25 May 2013 08: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: aszzz888
      Earlier, in the old and good times, those who had not served in the ranks of the Armed Forces were considered incomplete, poor. And they themselves never spoke about this topic. The society did not tolerate such "sluggish" people, they were despised. And now - almost a feat to "roll away" from the Army.
      "About times, about morals!"

      No wonder. In the 90s, a course was taken on the geeyization of Russia. Harvesting the fruits of tolerastization ....

      PS
      (Ugh, it just begs to hear "innovation", "modernization", "democratization", "liberalization" ...) fellow
      1. Orchestrarant
        Orchestrarant 25 May 2013 09: 23 New
        0
        +++ Ellipsis implies not good! wink laughing
  4. Rattenfanger
    Rattenfanger 25 May 2013 07: 54 New
    +6
    Why not adopt the experience of Israel? I didn’t serve it without a really good reason - not only state institutions, but also most private firms have closed the doors for your career.
    1. Professor
      Professor 25 May 2013 08: 42 New
      +9
      This is not true, the left and here "put things in order." For example, Arabs do not serve in the army, but the civil service is full of them. The only place where they will not take is the enterprises of the military-industrial complex.
      1. korm-yurii
        korm-yurii 25 May 2013 16: 20 New
        0
        I thought the Arabs in the Israeli army did not take.
        1. Professor
          Professor 25 May 2013 19: 54 New
          +1
          Take if they themselves ask. there are few, but there are. There are relatively many Bedouins in the army.
      2. Rattenfanger
        Rattenfanger 26 May 2013 16: 59 New
        0
        In auxiliary units, for God's sake (or, in the case of the Arabs, Allah).
        Z.Y. According to a fellow student who was demobilized in 2010 from the IDF.
  5. treskoed
    treskoed 25 May 2013 07: 57 New
    +3
    most parliamentarians themselves under the age of 45 years cannot intelligently explain why, during the period when they were in the military age, they still did not have enough time to repay military duty to their homeland.

    What else can you discuss?
    1. Atlon
      Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 27 New
      +5
      Quote: treskoed
      most parliamentarians themselves under the age of 45 years cannot intelligently explain why, during the period when they were in the military age, they still did not have enough time to repay military duty to their homeland.

      What else can you discuss?


      Ostap turned to Charushnikov:
      - In which regiment did you serve? Charushnikov puffed.
      - I ... I, so to speak, did not serve at all, because, being invested with public trust, I passed through the elections ...


      (Ilf, Petrov - "12 chairs")
      1. treskoed
        treskoed 25 May 2013 10: 25 New
        +3
        - I ... I, so to speak, did not serve at all, because, being invested with public trust, I passed through the elections ...

        CLASSIC!!! Neither add nor diminish.
    2. zvereok
      zvereok 26 May 2013 21: 24 New
      0
      Quote: treskoed
      most parliamentarians themselves under the age of 45 years cannot intelligently explain why, during the period when they were in the military age, they still did not have enough time to repay military duty to their homeland.

      What else can you discuss?


      They cannot intelligently explain their income, so only those who reach out to the punishing hand of our laws will pay. And before the law we are all equal, but someone is a bit more equal than others.

      The Committee of Soldiers' Mothers did a lot for draftees, who for a long time were just meat. It’s like fighting flashing lights - swamps, traitors and the fifth column swinging the galley, defeated the state apparatus and launched all its functions in the right direction, as a result the number of flashing lights sharply decreased. And imagine that officials themselves would start flashing lights without pressure from civil society.

      In everything you need to stay in the middle ground.
  6. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 25 May 2013 07: 59 New
    0
    I did not happen to serve alas .. It is always a shame to talk about it (although the reason is valid)
    1. Frunze
      Frunze 25 May 2013 10: 38 New
      +4
      Do not worry, it’s clear from your text that you are in the same ranks with us, and this is the main thing soldier
  7. tixon444
    tixon444 25 May 2013 08: 18 New
    24
    By February 23, our dear women give gifts to the defenders of the Fatherland. It may not be everywhere, but at my place of work it is sacred, from year to year. So this year they refused gifts to the deviators. Strictly so: did not serve - what a defender you are!
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 25 May 2013 08: 43 New
      0
      Or maybe everything is simpler "decided to save" The concept of defender of the Fatherland is not only on the front line to rise in the attack .. The army needs ammunition, they need to be fed to dress to treat .. In the Second World War, 1000 factories were evacuated to the East and began producing products for the front in just a couple of months. ...
      1. Atlon
        Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Or maybe everything is easier "decided to save money" The concept of defender of the Fatherland is not only on the front line to rise in attack

        Are you a dodger? smile
        As for the rear ... I have one grandfather fought in the Second World War, and the other is not. He was a home front worker, worked at a chemical plant. Doros to the chief engineer of the enterprise. But the fact of the matter is that even in his student years, while studying at Saratov University, in the morning hurrying to lecture, he fell from the foot of the tram, and his leg was cut off ... so he didn’t get to the front.
        1. Genady1976
          Genady1976 25 May 2013 15: 34 New
          +2
          And my grandfather only got to the front in 44g, they didn’t take it, there was no one to answer in the rear
          go work my grandfather drove
      2. olegyurjewitch
        olegyurjewitch 25 May 2013 11: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: MIKHAN
        The concept of the defender of the Fatherland is not only at the forefront in attack rise

        Now it’s not war, thank God, but in the war, let it be known to you, the young, and not only in every possible way, tried to get permission to remove the armor. And now, on the contrary, by any means to slope.
      3. builder
        builder 25 May 2013 11: 56 New
        +3
        Well, well ... We remember the famous: "I will bring more benefit in the rear."
        Thank God we don’t have a war. Serve the whole year, and then feed, dress, and heal. wink
      4. Setrac
        Setrac 25 May 2013 18: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Or maybe everything is simpler "decided to save" The concept of defender of the Fatherland is not only on the front line to rise in the attack .. The army needs ammunition, they need to be fed to dress to treat .. In the Second World War, 1000 factories were evacuated to the East and began producing products for the front in just a couple of months. ...

        Getting tired and dying is not the same thing. There has already been a debate on this topic on this site.
        1. Tverichanka
          Tverichanka 26 May 2013 00: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Setrac
          Getting tired and dying is not the same thing.

          My husband’s family, mother, father and three young children, were evacuated with a defense company near Nizhny Tagil. Two of the three children died, there were no medicines and there was enough food. My mother-in-law recalled those years and said that they had saved them from death. only a sewing machine. At night she sewed on it for locals potatoes .... No, no, she never blamed anyone, they just got to the rear too.
      5. Drednout
        Drednout 25 May 2013 19: 40 New
        +4
        And what kind of products do the current deviators produce? "Do you need a phone for yourself, or as a gift?"
        There is nothing to congratulate them! On the 23rd, I called the familiar officers — women, and greeted them too.
    2. zvereok
      zvereok 25 May 2013 09: 20 New
      10
      It's funny if, on 8 of March, those who did not give birth will also shake. What woman are you ?, you are a girl, come after childbirth))) ... Well, or prove love

      Lecture at the Medical Institute. The student asks the question: "Why do girls sit knees together and women knees apart?" The professor answered something, but his answer was not heard due to the rustle of shifting knees.
      1. Atlon
        Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 51 New
        13
        Quote: zvereok
        It's funny if, on March 8, those who did not give birth will also be perenzanut. What kind of woman are you?

        You exaggerate. However, on February 23, it was called earlier: Day of the Soviet Army, Aviation and Navy. They gave gifts to all men, because there were only a few non-servicemen, and those for good reasons. And to all the boys, because they ALL had to serve. Now, in the era of Tolerasty, the holiday was renamed. In vain renamed. Defender of the Fatherland, strange name. A woman can also be a defender of the fatherland. And while there is no war, it is difficult to determine which of the gifts received in advance will go to defend the fatherland, and who will sit out in the forest, or even worse abroad. I think it was not worth renaming the holiday, it was easier to come up with another: "Holiday of a man with gender characteristics of a man" wassat
        1. treskoed
          treskoed 25 May 2013 10: 30 New
          +1
          "Holiday of a man with gender characteristics of a man"

          Again, logically, you can demand to prove it!
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 25 May 2013 18: 20 New
        0
        Quote: zvereok
        It's funny if, on 8 of March, those who did not give birth will also shake. What woman are you ?, you are a girl, come after childbirth))) ... Well, or prove

        There is logic in this, what kind of woman she is, if she did not give birth, why are such women needed by the state? How quickly will a nation die if its women do not give birth?
      3. ded10041948
        ded10041948 26 May 2013 06: 59 New
        0
        What are you doing?
    3. il grand casino
      il grand casino 25 May 2013 17: 46 New
      +4
      Correctly. I did not serve (reasons like this are not strangely respectful), so no one congratulates me on 23rd. He forbade even close ones. Not my holiday.
    4. VADIMKRSK
      VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 23: 17 New
      +1
      Oppanki! Does it really happen? +++++ to your women.
      1. il grand casino
        il grand casino 26 May 2013 10: 34 New
        0
        As it happens ... women need to choose the right)))
    5. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka 26 May 2013 00: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: tixon444
      So this year they refused the draft

      Ah smart women your women! Still, their daughters would be punished for such a marriage, no, they are unreliable men, albeit in pants.
  8. posad
    posad 25 May 2013 08: 25 New
    +3
    It seems to me that the problem should be resolved fundamentally: after school, everyone must serve! A citizen just needs to get a military profession, to consolidate his skills, and after the end of the service to know that in which case he should arrive at a specific unit, where he will be waiting for a machine with a specific number, tank, infantry fighting vehicle .....
    After the service, let them think to study or work. At the same time, we will solve the problem of an overabundance of universities. It is no secret that they are hiding there from the army, and at the end of the university they do not work in their specialty.
    And now we need to raise the draft post to 45 and provide an opportunity to serve those who have not yet done so.
    And further. No need to make exceptions for athletes, dances and others. Before the law, everyone should be equal
    1. Dr. M3
      Dr. M3 25 May 2013 10: 50 New
      -1
      person. solves problems radically, and being literate is not trained, causes pity.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Drednout
      Drednout 25 May 2013 19: 44 New
      +1
      Your words, yes to the Lord in the ears! request Utopia, but I want it so much!
      Only now I was also in the repair group with hydroacoustic, so I won’t get a tank or machine.
  9. Professor
    Professor 25 May 2013 08: 35 New
    +6
    I wonder which of the children of the deputies themselves served in the army? In percentage terms, how much will it be?
    1. Selendis
      Selendis 25 May 2013 09: 01 New
      +9
      Quote: Professor

      Professor
      (1)

      Today, 08: 35

      ↓ New


      I wonder which of the children of the deputies themselves served in the army? In percentage terms, how much will it be?

      What do you think? A simple example from my life, what kind of an official is there, I just have a small entrepreneur in my friends and he has a son of about 8 years old, at one point, too, there was a conversation about an army girl, this guy dad said that he was not in the army nor his son was will be, since only fools can lose extra time and give non-existent debts. He said how he spat, I looked right in the eye and answered - who did you call a fool? Two years in boots, urgent in connection, I do not regret, a good school of life and independence.
      1. zvereok
        zvereok 25 May 2013 09: 32 New
        +4
        Yes, but also in ideology. And before they served the Motherland and now they serve the Motherland. Only earlier, the Country also had duties to the citizen and, at the very least, performed them. And now ... Well, at least they would have paid money (there is such a bill) to leave the army to buy an apartment and create a family, and not get humped up to forty on a mortgage, with a non-zero probability of remaining homeless.
        1. Atlon
          Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 53 New
          +4
          Quote: zvereok
          Well, at least they would have paid money (like there is such a bill), so that after leaving the army to buy an apartment and create a family

          But the face does not crack ??? Want an apartment? Welcome to the professional Army! And wander around the garrisons! Smart everything hurts! Okay, I’ll go to YOUR Army, only you give me an apartment! Wise guy found! am
          1. olegyurjewitch
            olegyurjewitch 25 May 2013 11: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: Atlon
            in order to leave the army to buy an apartment and create a family, and not get humped up to forty on a mortgage, with a non-zero probability of remaining homeless

            And they don’t want to serve and work too. I would have forbidden to marry those who did not. By the way, in the USSR a man was exempted from military service at the time of conscription having two children. Here's an alternative, marry, two children, and don’t blow a mustache. what is the incentive for the desire to work for the good of the family and the state, plus the improvement of the demographic situation.
            1. Drednout
              Drednout 25 May 2013 19: 46 New
              +1
              Quote: olegyurjewitch
              in the USSR a man was exempted from military service at the time of conscription having two children

              As far as I remember, now too. Yes, and the parent capitalist.
              1. VADIMKRSK
                VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 23: 31 New
                +1
                There isn’t enough capital for the kitchenette, so - to the pantry.
          2. VADIMKRSK
            VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 23: 28 New
            0
            Our army. And at least some privileges and respect. I think over time will appear ...
          3. zvereok
            zvereok 26 May 2013 20: 42 New
            0
            Today it’s like this, like its capitalism. Otherwise, it’s not very fair, someone got oil rigs, and someone defends their homeland (including oil rigs).

            In the Soviet Union, there were many benefits that the state provided to you, and now only responsibilities remain. Something does not fit together.
        2. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 25 May 2013 18: 23 New
          +3
          In ancient, Soviet years, the ordinary was put 3r.80k cash. Seogdnya for the year of service you require an apartment from the state. Why not ask for something like a Ferrari? The state is also obliged to create a family, and give birth to children, too, let it try. This is not a royal thing, children do. You, Your Majesty, just order, we will help you with the whole forum with your children. Show only your chosen one to us. laughing
          1. VADIMKRSK
            VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 23: 35 New
            0
            Do not offend families with children.
          2. Tverichanka
            Tverichanka 26 May 2013 00: 48 New
            -1
            Quote: Hedgehog
            we will help you with the whole forum with the children.

            So, then, in our village sugar is injected? Or am I no longer from this forum? This is discrimination and precisely on the basis of gender. I also have to set some task. I would not like to lag behind my comrades ..... For those who do not understand (what if?) - this is a joke!
          3. zvereok
            zvereok 26 May 2013 21: 32 New
            0
            Quote: Hedgehog
            In ancient, soviet years


            3.80 + an apartment in the general queue, plus trips to a sanatorium, plus quality education and treatment ... Not within the army, of course, but within the country that contained this army.
    2. O_RUS
      O_RUS 25 May 2013 09: 04 New
      20
      The youngest son of Russia's First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov, Evgeny, is serving in the army. The young man was taken this fall, according to the distribution, he ended up in the Pacific Special Forces naval special forces and serves on Russky Island


      ... a bit of history ...
      Over the years, the sons of nine generals and fifty-five colonels have died in Chechnya. This is rarely remembered.
      During the war in Chechnya in the 1994-1996 years the sons died:

      Lieutenant General ANOSHIN Gennady Yakovlevich;
      Major General NALETOV Gennady Afanasevich;
      Lieutenant General SUSLOV Vyacheslav Fedorovich;
      Lieutenant General of PULIKOVSKY Konstantin Borisovich;
      Major General Anatoly Mikhailovich FILIPENK;
      Major General of Aviation Anatoly Chigashov;
      Colonel General Shpak Georgy Ivanovich.
      Lieutenant General SCHEPINA Yuri.

      In 1999, the son of Lieutenant General SOLOMATIN Viktor Alexandrovich was killed in Chechnya.
      1. stranik72
        stranik72 25 May 2013 19: 41 New
        +4
        Shamanov missed, the only child in the family.
    3. Semurg
      Semurg 25 May 2013 09: 13 New
      +8
      Quote: Professor
      I wonder which of the children of the deputies themselves served in the army? In percentage terms, how much will it be?

      The elite of the people is an example for the whole nation, if the golden youth mows almost without exception, then what to demand from children of other strata of the people service in the army. The army is one of the pillars of the state and if there is an attempt on this pillar in the form of a mass repose among the elite, you need to change or the elite or the state. Such nigelism against the state is dangerous because the children of deputies and others will eventually become at the helm of this state, and what to expect from them when they are accustomed to lay down on this state with a device from their young nails. And the increased tax will not solve this issue just another corruption trough will appear, where these cases will be resolved amicably, and this is another blow to the state. In general, as always, there are no simple and quick solutions to complex issues (well, except one good Indian is a dead Indian laughing )
    4. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui 25 May 2013 16: 15 New
      +2
      "I wonder which of the children of the deputies themselves served in the army? In percentage terms, how much will it be?" ... PROF - the question is not legitimate in terms of the fact that Muscovites practically do not serve in the army ... it is such a hard lot to be office plankton, showmen, party-goers, beloletochniki, aligarhofregls, fagots, mafia and God knows who, if only not THIS. Well, the army should serve people from the outskirts of my country called contemptuously anchovies: drinks:
  10. anip
    anip 25 May 2013 08: 46 New
    +5
    In general, dregs. The sons of the moneybags will buy any papers, certificates, documents for themselves: either not to serve legally, or that they have served somewhere.
  11. nikolas 83
    nikolas 83 25 May 2013 08: 50 New
    10
    I myself served 2 years. But anger takes me when on February 23 women congratulate those who did not serve. am To tax evaders is the right decision. Everyone should go through the army.
    1. Dr. M2
      Dr. M2 25 May 2013 08: 57 New
      -9
      this is because you are inadequate. Any non-serving engineer working in the military-industrial complex benefits the state at least no less. And there are outstanding scientists, as well as young ones, who basically did not serve, and I note that if they work in the field of armaments and military equipment, they bring hundreds, thousands, times more benefits to you. Even if at the same time on every corner they defiantly declare that they did not serve and did not want to serve and would not under any circumstances. And mind you not evading but according to the law. And this is just one example out of many when people who are not related to the army benefit from protecting the state more than a typical soldier. For this soldier can be made anyone from the nearest village, but there is no one to replace those people. And vice versa, many of those who served are stupid hamovy cattle. Who does not know how and will not be able, and they have one way - either to bandits or to the police. This is not about everyone, of course, but the family is not without a freak. This is also a fact. So leave your boyish categorical, and grow up.
      1. posad
        posad 25 May 2013 09: 20 New
        +3
        And you have an inferiority complex. So you are trying to insult him. Your head is weak))))))))
        1. Dr. M2
          Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 28 New
          -2
          I have no complexes. I am an adult and with mature views. I just consider it right to reason for the wretched categorical inadequacies. even if they have already served.
          1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Professor
        Professor 25 May 2013 09: 29 New
        +7
        Quote: Dr.M2
        Any non-serving engineer working in the military-industrial complex benefits the state at least no less.

        Especially this benefit is felt when you are under fire from the enemy, and there is no fighter next to you "patamusha he is a talented engineer and at this moment benefits the Motherland" in the pub after a hard day's work. angry

        PS
        He is generally a genius, at the age of 18 he is already a talented engineer. Such as I look at least half the forum.
        1. Dr. M2
          Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 36 New
          +1
          you better think about what you would have been under fire from the enemy if it were not for all the military equipment and you were with a naked belly. the army and navy, the "allies of Russia", are not worth a dime without the defense industry. And the industry is not worth a penny without a corresponding branch science and some interest in what is happening on the part of fundamental science.
          1. Professor
            Professor 25 May 2013 09: 42 New
            11
            Quote: Dr.M2
            you better think about what you would be under fire from the enemy if there weren’t all the military equipment and you were with a bare belly.

            Young man, do not poke an adult.
            I repeat specifically for you. In 18 years, no one is not only a talented engineer, but an engineer in general. Let him serve for a year and at the age of 19 he is going to study as an engineer. Or in a year all his talent will be lost?
            1. Dr. M2
              Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 56 New
              +1
              why should he "go to serve for a year" if the STATE gives him the LAW right after school to just go to study at MIPT? Moreover, maybe even within the framework of a state contract between MIPT and the RF Ministry of Defense? Where do inadequate ideas come from? And I am not your youth. Older than you, sir. Categorical statements without initial information are a sign of a dull mind.
              1. Professor
                Professor 25 May 2013 10: 05 New
                15
                Quote: Dr.M2
                why should he "go to serve for a year" if the STATE gives him the LAW right after school to just go to study at MIPT?

                Here is an excuse: "The state gave the right ..." The same state should take this "right" and take it away. Military departments at universities are pornography.

                Quote: Dr.M2
                And I'm not a young man for you. Older than you, sir.

                At least returned to "you" and this is already good news.

                Quote: Dr.M2
                Categorical statements without initial information are a sign of a distant mind.

                Let's continue to respect politeness and we will not pass on to individuals. I categorically declare since I honestly served in the army and successfully made a scientific career. Therefore, I believe that military service did not become an obstacle to self-realization.
                1. Dr. M2
                  Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 11 New
                  0
                  very happy for you. But "the state gave the right" - this is not an excuse, but the RIGHT. In the article about the draft deviators. And the inadequacies were reformulated into "turned 18 - scramble into the army all". This is a moron3m.
                2. builder
                  builder 25 May 2013 12: 00 New
                  +4
                  The professor is happy today. good
                  1. DeerIvanovich
                    DeerIvanovich 25 May 2013 12: 58 New
                    0
                    again laundered trollushko. brought me in an emergency, so indirectly I can judge what he writes
                3. korm-yurii
                  korm-yurii 25 May 2013 16: 23 New
                  +2
                  That's for sure! After the army there is more respect for you.
                4. ded10041948
                  ded10041948 26 May 2013 07: 12 New
                  +1
                  Military departments at universities are pornography.
                  I do not know! He graduated from the military department and served for 22 years. Clarification: all positions are team.
            2. zvereok
              zvereok 26 May 2013 21: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Professor
              In 18 years, no one is not only a talented engineer, but an engineer in general.


              By the way, as an option, you can issue a certificate of completed secondary education after service. Those. an integrated approach, weaned for 10 years and served a year - the last call stopped. And the liver is lighter and more economical.
              1. Professor
                Professor 26 May 2013 22: 06 New
                0
                Quote: zvereok
                Alternatively, you can issue a certificate of completion of secondary education after service.

                Great idea.
                good
          2. Atlon
            Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 58 New
            +8
            Quote: Dr.M2
            You'd better think about what you would be under fire from the enemy if it were not for all the military equipment and you were with a bare belly. the army and navy, the "allies of Russia", are not worth a dime without the defense industry. And the industry is not worth a penny without a corresponding branch science and some interest in what is happening on the part of fundamental science.

            at 18, there are NO talented engineers, developers of advanced technology. And what could prevent such a future engineer from serving in the Army? In addition to invaluable experience, to develop the latest weapons systems, nothing!
            Andrey Korolev, being one of the designers of the famous Katyusha, more than once went to the front line to evaluate the work of his brainchild in REAL conditions. And even got surrounded! Of course they could have killed him, and it is not known how the space race would have ended then. But without real experience, he would never become Korolev NEVER!
            1. Dr. M2
              Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 12 New
              -2
              Once again for the DULL. THE STATE GAVE THE RIGHT - this is not an excuse, but the RIGHT. In the article about the draft deviators. And the inadequacies were reformulated into "turned 18 - scramble into the army all". This is a moron3m.
        2. Dr. M2
          Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 45 New
          +1
          at 18 he can be a 1st year student such as MIPT. Then after the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology, even without graduate school - just go to work for an enterprise that provides armor from the army. For the state understands that this person is more important to him than the average cannon fodder. More important, in order to protect cannon fodder.
          1. Professor
            Professor 25 May 2013 09: 57 New
            +9
            Quote: Dr.M2
            at 18 he can be a 1st year student such as MIPT.

            At the age of 18, he is still a shkolota with a maximum promise. Serve (damn it is about one year, 365 days) and go to study for the good of the motherland. In Israel, all Nobel laureates served in the army, and more than one year.
            Moreover, with the modern development of technology, a talented shkolota is very necessary for the army.
            1. Dr. M2
              Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 05 New
              -2
              once again for the stupid: if the LAWS of the STATE do not oblige to "scramble into the army", but give everyone who enrolled in universities a reprieve, then the army only at will. And what normal state needs ONLY 18-year-old boys in the army after school? Such an army is guaranteed to be unfit for action.
              1. Professor
                Professor 25 May 2013 10: 10 New
                +2
                again for stupid

                Are you sure you're "older than me"? Be rude like a shkolota. It's not about laws, but about "how much benefit a talented engineer will bring."
              2. Atlon
                Atlon 25 May 2013 10: 15 New
                14
                Quote: Dr.M2
                once again for stupid:

                You are very kind! Are you angry that you have slanted and are now ashamed? tongue

                Quote: Dr.M2
                THE LAWS OF THE STATE do not oblige to "scramble into the army", but give everyone who enrolled in universities

                So the laws need to be changed! Then the corruption component in universities will decrease, and places for NORMAL smart guys will appear, and not just for moneybags, who Bought students for themselves not to go to the Army.

                Quote: Dr.M2
                And what normal state does the army need ONLY 18 year old boys after school

                In your language: "for the stupid", I explain, the Army in peacetime is a SCHOOL for POTENTIAL soldiers in wartime. So that when the enemy comes, you do not die in the first days, but you know at least HOW the machine is arranged, how it charges, and how to shoot from it. Well, some other "little things" from the army wisdom.
                1. Dr. M2
                  Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 30 New
                  -1
                  But in wartime, what if the war came and in the army only schoolchildren aged 18 and 19?
        3. redwar6
          redwar6 25 May 2013 23: 50 New
          0
          Gold words)
      3. Atlon
        Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 40 New
        +4
        Quote: Dr.M2
        and there are also young ones, who basically did not serve, I’ll note that if they work in the field of armaments and military equipment, they bring hundreds, thousands, times more benefits to you

        Just as a writer who hasn’t been at the forefront cannot write about the war of a brilliant book, he who has not served in the Army will not be able to create truly brilliant weapons, such as a Kalashnikov assault rifle!
        1. Dr. M2
          Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 50 New
          -4
          rave. only a fool can write that. modern weapons are no longer a "Kalashnikov assault rifle", but electronics, electronics, and once again electronics. for example, a reconnaissance satellite. or a cunning radar station in the same S-400. And examples of brilliant books about wars written by people who have not seen them - the sea. Here is Tolstoy's War and Peace. Was he really fighting against Napoleon? Yes, he was born later.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Dr. M2
              Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 29 New
              -3
              For the fool of Athlone. I did not mow. Nor did he serve. And this is normal. But you have a dull, hamovataya freeze.
      4. common man
        common man 25 May 2013 10: 04 New
        +6
        All who did not serve, who worked in the "military-industrial complex". For God's sake. We have a day for a metallurgist, a day for a chemist, a worker in light industry. Nuclear Scientist Day is probably also there? So celebrate them. If there are few of them, let's introduce the Day of the Worker of the Military Industrial Complex. After all, February 23rd, birthday Soviet army.
        1. Dr. M2
          Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 13 New
          -4
          February 23, for a second, the day of the WHITE ARMY is no less than the Red, and even more. What battle did the Red Army win on February 23rd, or what document on its formation was signed? None. February 23 - Defender of the Fatherland Day, I remind you. Which is much more reasonable than Army day. If you need a "day of those who served" - here and enter and celebrate your health.
      5. krot00f
        krot00f 25 May 2013 10: 05 New
        +3
        You may not be an athlete. And you must be a sportsman. In the military-industrial complex, graduates of military departments. Of course conscripts do not like these. And there is no obligation to unlearn to go to work by profession. I think it is necessary to consolidate legislatively learned-practice. Then this stupid stereotype will fall that they say there are no personnel in the country.
        1. Dr. M2
          Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 14 New
          -3
          military departments have nothing to do with it. you are not at all in the subject. and any obligation is bad. not very long ago, normal people of engineering and physical orientation simply had NO place to go to work so as not to be a homeless person. Now the situation is changing. But imagine if in those days there were laws "unlearn - work (homeless)". no one would go to study. And now Russia would be in general in Adnitsa, without even that and so few (mainly economists and lawyers) generation of cadres that have been unlearned.
    2. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 25 May 2013 09: 10 New
      +7
      You can make everyone serve ... But to love Russia ... it’s more difficult here .. (Dudaev Maskhadov) served and not bad judging by the losses .. (((
      1. Dr. M2
        Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 15 New
        -4
        here is a good example of "serving" the dude at the top post ...
      2. Mitek
        Mitek 25 May 2013 12: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: MIKHAN
        You can make everyone serve ... But to love Russia ... it’s more difficult here .. (Dudaev Maskhadov) served and not bad judging by the losses .. (((

        Minus. They did not serve well. Badly commanded by ours. Some of the younger officers flaunted, and from the major to the colonel, they directly said that we were going to die. And already in the city they poured the information from the headquarters almost openly, released Czechs from boilers and so on. I will not tire of repeating that it is stupid to be on the first assault. The second assault is another matter. And now the Army is stronger. Both technically and morally.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 26 May 2013 10: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Mitek
          . They did not serve well. Poorly commanded by ours

          I agree with you!
          From my own experience I made one, the guarantee of victory in the ability of the commander!
          How competent and confident the commander is so close victory!
      3. vilenich
        vilenich 25 May 2013 12: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: MIKHAN
        (Dudaev Maskhadov) served and not bad judging by the losses.

        They served well (Maskhadov served in a nearby artillery regiment), but in fact Dudaev was a pilot, Maskhadov was an artilleryman and they were unlikely to represent infantry tactics in detail, and even more so as aces in guerrilla warfare! Apparently you can agree with Mitek
        Quote: Mitek
        Badly commanded by ours. Some of the younger officers flaunted, and from the major to the colonel, they directly said that we were going to die. And already in the city they poured the information from the headquarters almost openly, released Czechs from boilers and so on.
    3. posad
      posad 25 May 2013 09: 17 New
      13
      And still not serving should be congratulated on March 8!
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. tixon444
          tixon444 25 May 2013 10: 22 New
          +9
          Quote: Dr.M2
          Yes, how many fools are there?

          It seems like one.
          1. Dr. M2
            Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 28 New
            -1
            you are self-critical, but I don’t think that alone.
      2. il grand casino
        il grand casino 25 May 2013 18: 01 New
        +3
        Well, I didn’t serve, in childhood it flew well from one big-age freak into the eye ... with a stone ... so that there was a retinal detachment ... who needs me in the Army? Until the first march. Congratulations Kohl like March XNUMX
        1. Larus
          Larus 25 May 2013 18: 34 New
          0
          I wrote above that there are other types of troops, where marches are not the main work, but there will be no problems after all with technology.
          1. Ezhaak
            Ezhaak 25 May 2013 18: 46 New
            +2
            Quote: Larus
            here the technology will not deal with problems after all.

            You think so, because you have both eyes in place. Despite the presence of one functional eye, "one-eyed" are not given a disability group. But restrictions on life with one eye are still present. For example, I am also one-eyed and have to turn my head more and more. Inconvenience. The field of view is greatly narrowed.
            1. Drednout
              Drednout 25 May 2013 19: 54 New
              +1
              So it’s probably not worth it to put a pilot in a plane’s place, but the rear service may well come up.
            2. il grand casino
              il grand casino 25 May 2013 20: 14 New
              +1
              The problem is that I have not lost my eye. But with the load I’ll lose 100% ... the ophthalmologist called me a moron when I asked about the army ...
            3. 3 inches.
              3 inches. 26 May 2013 00: 53 New
              0
              but the chuyka works well. the one-eyed company is expanding .. by the way, shooting does not stop.
              1. il grand casino
                il grand casino 26 May 2013 10: 32 New
                0
                Wow, I shoot really well))) The merit of his father, he drove me and shooting ... and indeed drove me)))
              2. Yarbay
                Yarbay 26 May 2013 22: 23 New
                +1
                Quote: 3 inches.
                but the chuyka works well. the one-eyed company is expanding .. by the way, shooting does not stop.

                My opinion is that the hand is more important for shooting than the eye !!
                1. 3 inches.
                  3 inches. 28 May 2013 13: 44 New
                  0
                  it's because you have 2 eyes ..
      3. Setrac
        Setrac 25 May 2013 18: 33 New
        0
        Quote: posad
        not yet served must be congratulated on March 8!

        Well, immediately March 8, there is a day of a smoker!
    4. Setrac
      Setrac 25 May 2013 18: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: nikolas 83
      I myself served 2 years. But anger takes me when on February 23 women congratulate those who did not serve. To tax evaders is the right decision. Everyone should go through the army.

      This is not enough! Deprive civil rights evaders: the right to vote, the right to free movement, the right to social protection, etc.
  12. Dr. M2
    Dr. M2 25 May 2013 08: 52 New
    -10
    With that attitude of the state towards the army, what was observed not so long ago - they did the right thing that did not serve. We can say that they did the state thing. To understand the essence of any phenomenon, you need to go to the limit, consider extreme cases. so here is one extreme case: everyone goes to serve. The state still does not give a shit. Hungry clippers sit there and wet each other, and they don’t have new weapons, and they don’t have old ones, but the state has an army on paper. despite the fact that it does not look at paper. Another extreme case is that no one is going to serve. Here the state a little takes over and sees the phenomenon in all its glory and feels the vital need for it to have a normal army. And takes measures to normalize the situation. So those who massively scored for service in the army, with regard to what the state was like, accelerated the beginning of the process of bringing the state to life.
    1. Selendis
      Selendis 25 May 2013 09: 18 New
      +5
      And what is a state? If you want, read on Wikipedia. Only shameless and dishonest people who despise their homeland will not go to serve and protect it.
      1. Dr. M2
        Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 30 New
        -4
        in fact, the draft army is rarely in which states. on the contrary, a developed state does not require that its citizens protect it as slaves. it offers them work in order to protect it (the state). and rewards her well. and forms their social (not only financial) status in society. and at the same time, a normal state also itself protects all its citizens.
        1. Professor
          Professor 25 May 2013 09: 36 New
          +6
          Quote: Dr.M2
          in fact, the draft army is rarely in which states. on the contrary, a developed state does not require that its citizens protect it as slaves. it offers them work in order to protect it (the state). and rewards her well. and forms their social (not only financial) status in society. and at the same time, a normal state also itself protects all its citizens.

          Those who are not able to repay their homeland are always looking for excuses, and those who are capable of honest service in the army ..
          1. Dr. M2
            Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 42 New
            -5
            I'm just trying to convey to inadequacies that there is nothing black and white. the state itself knows best what is more important to it. therefore there is much that gives the exemption from the army by law. for example, a degree. or work in some research or production enterprise of the same Roskosmos. for the state has not yet lost the instinct of self-preservation and it feels that these people are more valuable to it and should not be driven to the fence. otherwise it can turn out as in the next article with Sikorsky. that you won’t also drive behind the fence and will work by vocation, only not in Russia.
            1. posad
              posad 25 May 2013 09: 53 New
              +3
              Now, if you dump somewhere, then we all will be very well in Russia
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Explore
                  Explore 25 May 2013 10: 46 New
                  +2
                  So a new troll has formed.
                  Let’s be smarter - do not pay attention.

                  Moreover, this nonsense is nothing to disassemble.
          2. Corsair
            Corsair 25 May 2013 10: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            Those who are not able to repay their homeland are always looking for excuses, and those who are capable of honest service in the army ..

            From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs?
            Yes, you are a PROFESSOR communist, however! laughing
          3. Babon
            Babon 26 May 2013 01: 48 New
            0
            Professor, you don’t recognize you today. Nice to read simply.
        2. kotdavin4i
          kotdavin4i 25 May 2013 10: 57 New
          +3
          I read your posts, I agree in some way, I do not agree, but in this you are specifically wrong - "on the contrary, a developed state does not require its citizens to protect it like slaves." - and now tell me "illiterate" Switzerland - is it a developed country? If so, why the hell is there an ABSOLUTELY WALL DRAWING TO THE ARMY?
          to make it easier for you to find the info here is the link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D1%91% D0% BD% D
          0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8B_%D0%A8%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B9%D1%86%D0%B0%D
          1%80%D0%B8%D0%B8)
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 25 May 2013 11: 07 New
            +4
            Quote: kotdavin4i
            Now tell me "illiterate" Switzerland is a developed country?

            Sweden is also a developed state and, moreover, more recently, it was presented as the standard of social society. And they could not think that they would not spend much time and that cars and schools in 20 cities would burn.
            The Swiss army is also a standard at first glance, but it is only possible to check whether it is true or not in real combat operations. The rest is just a theory of the ideal.
          2. Felix200970
            Felix200970 25 May 2013 14: 39 New
            0
            Quote: kotdavin4i
            Now tell me "illiterate" Switzerland is a developed country? If so, why the hell is there an ABSOLUTELY WALL DRAWING TO THE ARMY?

            That is the tradition. The Pope is still only guarded by Swiss mercenaries. And there is nothing in the word mercenaries shameful or condemning. Guys have been striving for centuries to make this a tradition.
  13. vilenich
    vilenich 25 May 2013 08: 56 New
    +3
    I do not believe that a tax increase will be a reliable motivation for a young man in 18 to make a decision not to "mow down" from service. At this age, the long-term effects are somehow not very disturbing! I personally am very impressed with the principle of conscription that existed in 80's.
    You need to call everyone, with the exception of the very sick, those with limitations and other bells and whistles - for alternative service (the duration of which is 2 times longer), those who are fit - for military service, and if you entered a university, then after the first year of study, with the preservation of a place in the university. For other "deviators" there is an article in the Criminal Code and on the bunks, but there is no need to be afraid of this, only a few will get on the bunks, and the rest in orderly rows, with reliable motivation, will fulfill their duty to the Motherland!
    1. Kahlan amnell
      Kahlan amnell 25 May 2013 09: 38 New
      +7
      Better yet, educate sons correctly. So that for a young man it would be unthinkable and unacceptable to slope. After all, you are not serving for the president-government-State Duma-oligarchs. You serve for your mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, brides, wives, children. Otherwise, how can you protect those who themselves can’t protect themselves or cannot?
      Somewhat emotionally, but, I believe, it is said correctly.
      1. vilenich
        vilenich 25 May 2013 09: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Kahlan Amnell
        Better yet, educate sons correctly.

        Mostly said, of course true, but it should all work in one system! And most importantly, there should be a single state idea that creates motivation for members of society to defend this state. And without this it is difficult to tear a modern young man away from the computer, "mother's skirt", etc., etc.
        1. Kahlan amnell
          Kahlan amnell 25 May 2013 18: 24 New
          +4
          ... creating motivation among members of society to protect this state ...

          Or maybe you need to create another motivation? Not abstract state from the president-government-State Duma-oligarchs, and the real country from mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, brides, wives, children.
          There is a Latin proverb: "Non scholae, sed vitae discimus" (Not for school, we study for life).
          So with the military service - military science is not comprehended for the authorities, but for your relatives, so that you can protect them.
          1. Tverichanka
            Tverichanka 26 May 2013 01: 15 New
            -1
            Quote: Kahlan Amnell
            and a real country of mothers, fathers, sisters,

            Thank you for such a wonderful comment. In my opinion, you are absolutely right. It’s good to compare endlessly normal men and all the foam that flickers on the screens and in the media. Not for them, and not for them all. cracking foie gras and slurping whiskey. The country is OUR! Not them, but OUR! And they, whatever they were posing as themselves, are afraid of the people. The dope of perestroika has flown from us. Everyone becomes realistic. And this fat thing is scary. They know that they don’t have much time left to stick their fingers. Will they leave for Monaco or London? And the tablecloth is expensive! They’ll take away the money? And figs with them. We’re not armless and headless, we’ve earned it. It’s happened more than once. do not.
      2. Garrin
        Garrin 25 May 2013 11: 07 New
        +6
        Quote: Kahlan Amnell
        Better yet, educate sons correctly. So that for a young man it would be unthinkable and unacceptable to slope

        In general, it’s right, but how can a daddy, who has cut himself off, be able to raise his son?
        1. hiocraib
          hiocraib 25 May 2013 12: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Garrin
          In general, it’s right, but how can a daddy, who has cut himself off, be able to raise his son?

          so this, the vast majority of daddies whose children did not serve in the 90s and 2000s, served in the SA in the 80s. and whom did they bring up?
        2. Kahlan amnell
          Kahlan amnell 25 May 2013 18: 26 New
          0
          ... only, how can the daddy, who "cut down" himself, be able to raise his son?

          I do not know ...
          This is your male business.
      3. VADIMKRSK
        VADIMKRSK 25 May 2013 23: 56 New
        0
        Sons! So far, three, boobies, but I don’t think they will try to slope. Yes, and still young ... I think soon there will be a service honor and not an obligation
    2. hiocraib
      hiocraib 25 May 2013 12: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: vilenich
      I do not believe that a tax increase will be a reliable motivation for a young man at the age of 18 to make a decision not to "mow" from service.

      never was and never will be.
      only the improvement of the conditions of service and the attitude towards the soldiers was and will be decisive for the "slope" of the conscript.
      and the recent reforms of the Republic of Armenia clearly show this - many who have slanted in 90/00 would now go to serve. due to changes in conditions of service.
      and how do recruits learn about the service? That's right, from friends of employees and employees - for example, one friend of mine with the highest category of health almost lost his sight from a blow from his grandfather (count, be blind at 18 years old due to the stupidity of another!), the other machine was seen only on oath ... about the quality of the grub I generally will not say anything!
      and you, instead of making service in the army attractive, stupidly want to "force" it, and then you are surprised that the army is not needed and they are simply afraid of it?

      ps it's good that recently there has been a concrete fight against bullying, and "the tough grandfather is in the colony."
      1. vilenich
        vilenich 25 May 2013 18: 26 New
        0
        Quote: hiocraib
        a concrete fight against hazing has been taking place recently

        You would have read less horror stories about the army on the pages of the yellow press, but listened to fairy tales of demobilization!
        Basically, normal conditions are created for the service, but you can criticize anything!
        1. hiocraib
          hiocraib 25 May 2013 18: 33 New
          -2
          Quote: vilenich
          You would have read less horror stories about the army on the pages of the yellow press, but listened to fairy tales of demobilization!

          a guy who almost lost his sight sat with me at a neighboring desk, went to visit him in hospitals. the other, who saw the machine only on an oath, with two desks at the back. that I also ate not from the yellow press ...

          Quote: vilenich
          Basically, normal conditions are created for the service, but you can criticize anything!

          correctly. with one little but very important correction - in recent years. the period of 90-00 years (20 years) was a complete booty, and daddies who served in the SA in the 80s, by hook or by crook, laundered their sons from military service ...
          1. vilenich
            vilenich 26 May 2013 19: 35 New
            0
            Quote: hiocraib
            about eating

            And what did they eat so terrible? I do not argue that food is different everywhere! But the diet is basically balanced and allows you to properly restore the spent eneogy. Naturally, no one gives home drafts, from here basically such negative impressions arise, especially for those who, after the course of the young fighter, screwed up tightly to write off from the ranks of the armed forces. I can give you a different point of view, some soldiers from the outback were extremely surprised that in the army every day give meat!
            1. hiocraib
              hiocraib 26 May 2013 19: 49 New
              -1
              Quote: vilenich
              But the diet is basically balanced and allows you to properly restore the spent eneogy. Naturally, nobody gives home dainties,

              so no one speaks about ranosols. only the "fat" remained from the "norm", and the meat left ... potatoes - half the rot. what to do with sugar and pasta - and you yourself know.

              and it’s strange to somehow hear in the 21st century that the quality of food in professional chefs, even with a limited budget, may be lower than in the average housewife ...

              ps well, as it were, we had the opportunity to compare the quality of food - we had free meals at the vocational schools themselves, in practice, we looked at the menu of more than one industrial enterprise.
              so it’s inappropriate about "endure hardships and hardships thieves and sloppiness of responsible persons "!
              1. vilenich
                vilenich 26 May 2013 20: 16 New
                0
                Quote: hiocraib
                so it is inappropriate about "to endure the hardships and hardships of thieves and the carelessness of responsible persons"!

                You write beautifully, do not regret black paint. And you in the main mass saw what young men are called up and what men return after service! I do not argue the shortcomings everywhere you can pick, but the result is obvious! You do not know the control mechanism that existed in the CA. Now outsourcing, in general Europe, what claims to the military, because civilian structures feed. And of course, barley is tasteless, they don’t feed kebabs!
                1. hiocraib
                  hiocraib 26 May 2013 21: 05 New
                  -1
                  Quote: vilenich
                  You write beautifully, do not regret black paint.

                  so embellishment and silence does not lead to anything good ...

                  Quote: vilenich
                  And you in the main mass saw what young men are called up and what men return after service!

                  in recent years, yes.

                  Quote: vilenich
                  I do not argue the shortcomings everywhere you can pick, but the result is obvious!

                  Are you talking about slanting?

                  Quote: vilenich
                  You do not know the control mechanism that existed in the CA.

                  The SA ended 20 years ago ... and I didn’t say anything bad about the SA.

                  Quote: vilenich
                  Now outsourcing, in general Europe, what claims to the military, because civilian structures feed.

                  outsourcing has emerged in the last couple of years. before that they fed exclusively "their own" ...
                  but with outsourcing, all kinds of washing machines and showers - there are more people who want to serve on the contrary!

                  Quote: vilenich
                  And of course, barley is tasteless, they don’t feed kebabs!

                  all this excuses. to a normal cook, barley delicious to cook no problems ...
                  at the same time, I don’t understand what is the problem with the shish kebab for soldiers, you said about "meat every day"?
                  hi
                  1. vilenich
                    vilenich 26 May 2013 21: 18 New
                    0
                    Quote: hiocraib
                    how embellishment and silence does not lead to anything good ...

                    Just like the other extreme - pouring mud, and subsequently sprinkling ashes on the head. This is precisely what played a large, if not decisive, role in reducing the prestige of military service.
                    Quote: hiocraib
                    in recent years, yes.

                    This rule was valid all the time, but his ardent shit democrats preferred not to notice.
                    Quote: hiocraib
                    The SA ended 20 years ago ... and I didn’t say anything bad about the SA.

                    In powered SAs, the same problems existed.
                    Quote: hiocraib
                    but with outsourcing, all kinds of washing machines and showers - there are more people who want to serve on the contrary!

                    Unfortunately, outsourcing did not lead to a sharp improvement in the quality of food, and in some cases, on the contrary, the quality of food deteriorated, but the cost of food clearly increased.
                    And how interesting do you imagine the preparation of 1,5 - 2 thousand servings of barbecue at a time?
                    1. hiocraib
                      hiocraib 26 May 2013 21: 57 New
                      -1
                      Quote: vilenich
                      This is precisely what played a large, if not decisive, role in reducing the prestige of military service.

                      the decisive role here was played by the army itself, and what was happening there.

                      Quote: vilenich
                      This rule was valid all the time, but his ardent shit democrats preferred not to notice.

                      oh yes come on. the army itself has done everything possible and impossible for this!

                      Quote: vilenich
                      In powered SAs, the same problems existed.

                      to failure 90/00 im oh how far!

                      Quote: vilenich
                      Unfortunately, outsourcing did not lead to a sharp improvement in the quality of food, and in some cases, on the contrary, the quality of food deteriorated, but the cost of food clearly increased.

                      and whose duty is outsourcers to check and playful pens to give?
                      Well, as it would be for me it would be surprising if the cost of food would decrease - without free slave. Strength of soldiers and the same products!

                      Quote: vilenich
                      And how interesting do you imagine the preparation of 1,5 - 2 thousand servings of barbecue at a time?

                      Do not believe it - together, on a home electric grill I made barbecue for 100 people.

                      I don't see any problems with a "group" barbecue for 200-400 people a day, for one or two companies, with a "breakdown" for a week.
                      1. vilenich
                        vilenich 26 May 2013 23: 10 New
                        +1
                        hiocraib
                        I carefully read your posts and one immodest question arose. With such knowledge of the matter, you judge the situation in the army, let me ask, in which years and in which troops did you personally serve?
      2. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 26 May 2013 01: 24 New
        0
        Quote: hiocraib
        About the quality of food I generally will not say anything!

        That's it, you measure everything with the quality of grub. And then weep, the system is to blame. My son, by the way, served in the hardest years, from 997 to 1999. He didn’t die of hunger. But he returned not as a kid, but as a man. Now he has six children and all the difficulties for him. And he knows how to do a lot and make money on such a horde. And he doesn’t go, doesn’t moan that the state didn’t give him anything there ..... And then they made solid claims. It's not like that, it's not like that. Compliance is continuous.
        1. hiocraib
          hiocraib 26 May 2013 12: 06 New
          -1
          Quote: Tverichanka
          That's it, you measure everything with the quality of grub. And then weep, the system is to blame.

          Well, the "system" is something (ie, the army) and feeds! not mom and dad, not the soldier himself - but the system.
          and from this system they mowed almost without exception - with the approval of the mothers and folders who had served in the 80s in the SA ...
  14. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 25 May 2013 08: 59 New
    +5
    In schools, you need to again introduce the subject of NVP (remember this) Garkushin I remember we had (the former officer) drove ... more than 30 years have passed, but let me understand and assemble the machine now ... and organized shooting competitions (I even there is a discharge) and for the first time he shot from a Kalash at a military training ground in 10 cells. 2 of three targets hit Garkushin’s school .. (heaven be with him) ..
    1. Dr. M2
      Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 17 New
      -3
      just not "enter the subject", but first to make it
      1. well-equipped material base,
      2. optional. there are those who wish.
  15. Atlon
    Atlon 25 May 2013 09: 15 New
    11
    I would generally legalize the "evasion" of the Army. For example, an additional tax before retirement, for those who can serve and have no contraindications. As before there was a tax for childlessness. Or a certain amount equal to the content of one soldier. You can immediately, you can pay by installments. If you do not want to serve yourself, provide for yourself the maintenance of one combat infantry unit.
    Those who have not served (without good reason) are prohibited from holding ANY public office. Do not issue a military ID. Without its presence, it is not possible to hire government agencies. Prohibit possession of weapons, even hunting.
    To those who served in the Army, issue rights (driver’s licenses), weapons permits, and certificates to enter any university in the country without exams. During the service, charge a salary to the bank account in the amount of the national average, with the possibility of access to funds, only after demobilization. In case of desertion, accruals are canceled.
    1. Dr. M2
      Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 18 New
      -7
      another inadequate ... thank God to govern such a state as .akom to the moon. Maximum - to teach the wife to cook cabbage soup in the kitchen. At the same time arguing to whom he would give out hunting weapons.
      1. posad
        posad 25 May 2013 09: 46 New
        +3
        Tell me, why are you here on a patriotic site? Side for men. You IT are not a man and not a woman. Are you gaining courage here?)))))))))))
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Atlon
        Atlon 25 May 2013 10: 04 New
        +5
        Quote: Dr.M2
        one more inadequate ..

        Everyone has already guessed what you cut! Go calm down, drink valerian while NORMAL and REAL men discuss serious issues, without "a man with gender characteristics of a man." laughing
        By the way, about cabbage soup ... If you teach your wife this (and what else remains for a man with gender characteristics of a man, in a relationship with a man with gender characteristics of a woman?), Then my wife is a REAL woman, and KNOWs how to cook cabbage soup! wink
        1. Dr. M2
          Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 18 New
          -2
          I personally have never mowed. as well as not serving. happy for your wife. But still about hunting weapons and your theory, how would you manage the state - bring it up to date. And then suddenly he does not realize with whom he lives.
      3. Corsair
        Corsair 25 May 2013 10: 20 New
        0
        Quote Dr.M2: [quote] I personally have never mowed. as well as not serving. happy for your wife. But still about hunting weapons and your theory, how would you manage the state - bring it up to date. And then suddenly does not realize with whom he lives. [/ Quote]
        YOU HERE: [/ quote] http://topwar.ru/28482-kak-raspoznat-idiota-vo-vremya-diskussii
        .html
        1. Dr. M2
          Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 27 New
          -1
          I am glad that you realize that you need to learn to recognize yourself during discussions with yourself. But why should the rest go there?
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 25 May 2013 10: 47 New
            +3
            Quote: Dr.M2
            But why should the rest go there?

            You fall out of the range of adequate visitors to the site, so it’s YOU that the link is a direct road ...
    2. Felix200970
      Felix200970 25 May 2013 14: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Atlon
      I would generally legalize the "evasion" of the Army. For example, an additional tax before retirement, for those who can serve and have no contraindications. As before there was a tax for childlessness.

      The tax on small families and childless citizens did not provide for contraindications. None. Year postponement after the wedding and in full until the children appear laughing
  16. Hleb
    Hleb 25 May 2013 09: 16 New
    +8
    Not a man?
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 25 May 2013 09: 42 New
      +1
      laughing boob, read the entry carefully
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 25 May 2013 10: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Gleb
        laughing boob, read the entry carefully

        I read and rated POSITIVE wink
      2. builder
        builder 25 May 2013 12: 05 New
        +1
        When hiring people, I saw such funny notes. And there was also a recording - "Simulant."
    2. Kahlan amnell
      Kahlan amnell 26 May 2013 12: 02 New
      0
      Indeed, it is possible to read this way and that. lol laughing
  17. tixon444
    tixon444 25 May 2013 09: 21 New
    +8
    They do not want to serve - and do not! The army is not a collective farm; if you want, you enter, if you don’t want to, we will force it, there will be no sense from them anyway. But it is necessary to impose a tribute to draft dodgers, and not a small one. Funds should be sent to orphanages, to Suvorov schools and to those who served as severance pay.
    1. Dr. M2
      Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 25 New
      -4
      moreover, the army will only then become really combat-ready, when in order to get there it will be necessary to pass a competition. and the task of the state is not to drive everyone behind the fence, but to motivate so that a competition of comers appears.
      1. posad
        posad 25 May 2013 09: 48 New
        +2
        This is an inferiority complex in you)))))))))))))
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 25 May 2013 09: 57 New
      +4
      Quote: tixon444
      They do not want to serve - and do not! The army is not a collective farm; if you want, you enter, if you don’t want to, we will force it, there will be no sense from them anyway. But it is necessary to impose a tribute to draft dodgers, and not a small one. Funds should be sent to orphanages, to Suvorov schools and to those who served as severance pay.

      It is necessary to put "haymakers" in such FRAMEWORK( laughing ) so that at every step in everyday civilian life, their land burns under their feet ...
    3. dusha233
      dusha233 25 May 2013 10: 58 New
      +2
      Actually, the collective farm is different: the collective farm is voluntary, if you don’t go, we will shoot !!!!
  18. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 25 May 2013 09: 28 New
    +9
    Quote: O_RUS
    The youngest son of Russia's First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov, Evgeny, is serving in the army. The young man was taken this fall, according to the distribution, he ended up in the Pacific Special Forces naval special forces and serves on Russky Island


    ... a bit of history ...
    Over the years, the sons of nine generals and fifty-five colonels have died in Chechnya. This is rarely remembered.
    During the war in Chechnya in the 1994-1996 years the sons died:

    Lieutenant General ANOSHIN Gennady Yakovlevich;
    Major General NALETOV Gennady Afanasevich;
    Lieutenant General SUSLOV Vyacheslav Fedorovich;
    Lieutenant General of PULIKOVSKY Konstantin Borisovich;
    Major General Anatoly Mikhailovich FILIPENK;
    Major General of Aviation Anatoly Chigashov;
    Colonel General Shpak Georgy Ivanovich.
    Lieutenant General SCHEPINA Yuri.

    In 1999, the son of Lieutenant General SOLOMATIN Viktor Alexandrovich was killed in Chechnya.

    Let the land rest in peace for them .. And honor and respect for their parents that they raised such sons and did not use their official position .. there are not a few of them in Russia, all the same ..
    1. Dr. M2
      Dr. M2 25 May 2013 09: 33 New
      +1
      it is not surprising that the generals and colonels have sons in the army. maybe there dynasties formed over the centuries and this family vocation - to defend the homeland. It is surprising that civilian officials are not in the army. give an example of the children of high-ranking civil servants who died there?
    2. O_RUS
      O_RUS 25 May 2013 14: 27 New
      +1
      Meehan under your comme is a remote com. What was written there?
  19. Arrogant
    Arrogant 25 May 2013 09: 39 New
    0
    Quote: aszzz888
    Earlier, in the old and good times, those who had not served in the ranks of the Armed Forces were considered incomplete, poor. And they themselves never spoke about this topic. The society did not tolerate such "sluggish" people, they were despised. And now - almost a feat to "roll away" from the Army.
    "About times, about morals!"

    Everything returns to normal, the guys in the yard talked, everyone after the school or technical school is going to the army, though the children of the deputies are not among them unfortunately (((
    1. Felix200970
      Felix200970 25 May 2013 14: 48 New
      0
      Quote: Rogue
      he talked with guys in the yard, everyone after the school or college is going to the army, though the children of the deputies are not among them unfortunately

      Maybe because you have no deputies in your yard?
  20. Larus
    Larus 25 May 2013 09: 44 New
    +3
    In general, I think that everyone should serve, except for the seriously "sick". It's time to close the university shop, as many Kosar articles like flat feet need to be canceled, because for some reason they remember about their flat feet when the army needs other minor "diseases" that in this kindergarten, the modern army will not be visible . Eighteen turned-march into the army, and then go study.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  21. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 25 May 2013 09: 49 New
    +2
    Quote: Dr.M2
    moreover, the army will only then become really combat-ready, when in order to get there it will be necessary to pass a competition. and the task of the state is not to drive everyone behind the fence, but to motivate so that a competition of comers appears.

    The most important criterion is when the women (normal smart girls) near the Military Schools will gape with jambs .. and make eyes at the cadets .. (and this was ..) the song "junior lieutenant ..")))
    1. Dr. M2
      Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 00 New
      -1
      and the women will be there to barrage when the state is preoccupied with the social status (not money) and the financial position (money) of those who served, that is, exactly what the competition will give rise to. including because of the women. The junior lieutenant is an extremely unsuccessful example. A song, from the lips of a woman in her forties, has seen everything in life and longs for an easy adventure with a young boy.
  22. Vitamoralle
    Vitamoralle 25 May 2013 09: 51 New
    0
    The main thing is that after this tax they do not speak, Stalin did not serve, but what a "man" he became. True, he legally escaped military service (due to a hand broken in childhood, which did not grow together correctly).
    1. Felix200970
      Felix200970 25 May 2013 14: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Vitamoralle
      The main thing is that after this tax they do not speak, Stalin did not serve, but what a "man" he became.

      I wonder how Joseph Vissarionovich did not serve this. He went through the entire civil war and was a decision maker in the Second World War. Did he just become a Marshal of the Soviet Union and Generalissimo?
      1. T-73
        T-73 25 May 2013 21: 55 New
        0
        Controversial. Visarionych was not a military man - that's a fact. Making decisions does not mean developing plans for front-line operations. General leadership is not control of armies and fronts. We are generally silent about the regimental and other. The same order "Not one step back" only "solution"
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 25 May 2013 22: 15 New
          0
          Quote: T-73
          Controversial. Visarionych was not a military man - that's a fact. Making decisions does not mean developing plans for front-line operations. General leadership is not control of armies and fronts. We are generally silent about the regimental and other. The same order "Not one step back" only "solution"

          Private Ivanov also does not do all of the above. During the defense of Tsaritsyn there was not only "general leadership".
  23. Dr. M2
    Dr. M2 25 May 2013 10: 20 New
    -2
    And not only Stalin. And Putin did not serve. It was then that the kayak would come from a break in the brain at a local price. For it turns out that Putin didn’t serve without mowing because the state, in contrast to the inadequate, considers a lot of things a lot where no less and even more important for their security than military service in the army itself, where half or even more of the required personnel can be boys from the villages catch up. but people need smarter places.
    1. Professor
      Professor 25 May 2013 10: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Dr.M2
      . And Putin did not serve.

      And the prime minister did not serve and the minister of defense, chairman of the supreme court, speaker of parliament did not serve either ...
      1. korm-yurii
        korm-yurii 25 May 2013 16: 33 New
        0
        So that's where the dog rummaged! It turns out the prime minister did not serve and is now against the new law.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 May 2013 10: 33 New
      +4
      Quote: Dr.M2
      And Putin did not serve.

      Either the amers scare the whole world with KGB colonel Putin laughing
      Sometimes, and you often, it’s better to be silent than to speak!
      1. Dr. M3
        Dr. M3 25 May 2013 10: 46 New
        -2
        The KGB, for your information, is not the Armed Forces. What are we talking about. It was better for you to be silent than to speak. And yes, ranks in the "police", for example, "major" are not military ranks. Military ranks are awarded by decree of the Minister of Defense. And, for a second, not a colonel, but a lieutenant colonel. And not the KGB, but the FSB.
    3. Illyria
      Illyria 25 May 2013 10: 48 New
      0
      where did you get it, comrade, that Putin did not serve ???
      1. Dr. M3
        Dr. M3 25 May 2013 10: 53 New
        -1
        and where did you get that served? You see, the state is aware that it is not the army that unites its security. as well as science, industry, and special services. And according to the average quality of human material, the army can be in the first lines by such a criterion as patriotism, but according to the criterion, brains and experience can be in the top ten at the end among other places where you can join in the defense of the fatherland.
  24. Atlon
    Atlon 25 May 2013 10: 28 New
    +6
    Quote: Dr.M2
    And Putin did not serve.

    laughing

    My father and grandfather also "did not serve", they were given the rank of colonels from birth! laughing
    1. Dr. M3
      Dr. M3 25 May 2013 10: 55 New
      -2
      For your information, the KGB is not the Armed Forces. What are we talking about. It was better for you to be silent than to speak. And yes, ranks in the "police", for example "major" - are not military ranks. Military ranks are awarded by decree of the Minister of Defense. And, for a second, not a colonel, but a lieutenant colonel, and not the KGB, but the FSB.
      1. svp67
        svp67 25 May 2013 11: 00 New
        +2
        Quote: Dr.M3
        The KGB for your information is not the Armed Forces.

        For your information :
        3. Citizens pass military service in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, border agencies and in the internal troops of the Ministry of the Interior of the Russian Federation.
        (in the edition of Federal Laws from 30.06.2003 N 86-FZ, from 29.06.2004 N 58-ФЗ, from 07.03.2005 N 15-ФЗ)
        (see the text in the previous wording)
        Citizens shall be sent to other troops, military formations and bodies for military service in accordance with the decree of the President of the Russian Federation after staffing military posts in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, other troops and bodies specified in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation paragraph one of this paragraph.


        The border troops were not independent for only a short time, and so they were part of the KGB and FSB, so that part of the KGB (FSB) belongs to the Armed Forces ...
        1. Dr. M3
          Dr. M3 25 May 2013 11: 04 New
          0
          and what about the border troops (note - subordinate not to the Ministry of Defense, but to the KGB) to the subject under discussion? The border guards were the Second Main Directorate of the KGB. And Putin is from the First. This is a foreign intelligence service. And pay attention to it, Putin did not return to the FSB. She is still on her own.
  25. anip
    anip 25 May 2013 10: 31 New
    -1
    In general, various measures against draft evaders should be carried out AFTER:
    1. Will be provided really service (training, training, sports development, maneuvers), and not the construction of cottages and roads to the cottages of generals, colonels, majors and their relatives and friends, acquaintances, and work on their own sites.
    2. Will be provided real protection of military personnel from hazing and from national groupings (and not talking about the fact that, they say, this is not) in the army.
    3. Will be provided real protection against arbitrariness of officers.
    And without all this, you can rant about debt, etc., as much as you like, and the number of deviators will grow.
    1. Larus
      Larus 25 May 2013 10: 43 New
      +2
      1, And where then does the young man learn to build, dig, lay, etc. if not in the army (there is a grain of truth in every joke. You will agree that the soldier should not clean his disposition and toilet, as well as the territory near the barracks, etc. K. He was not called there for this.
      2, hazing is for whiners who, after a certain period, begin to bend their fingers and build an old man out of themselves.
      3, The arbitrariness of the officers is an isolated fact. And I believe that officers should be taught only after urgency, then they will be much closer to the soldier, because The same thing happened.
    2. T-73
      T-73 25 May 2013 21: 46 New
      0
      4. There will be world peace, and no one will ever shoot.
      It is disgusting that even for such our army will fight, if necessary
  26. Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 25 May 2013 10: 41 New
    -2
    Well, in my opinion, the debt can be to such a state that cares about the people, and he, in turn, cares for the good of the fatherland. Let's take the Soviet period. Was it hazing? Was. But that is not the question. Where did all the people live? That's right, in state apartments. Did they pay to receive them? NEVER. Resettlement was the real thing. He got married, gave birth to 2-3 children, you have a good chance of acquiring a separate apartment from mom and dad. Everything is free. Study? You are welcome. If you are not stupid and dumb. There was a pull, but it was usually not visible. Treatment? For God's sake. Although in some places it is worse than in the west. But excesses are everywhere, as without them, no one idealizes. Pension? Decent. And the military pension is generally silent. A baby was born? Sadik by wellcome. The police were not afraid ... In short, there was something to pay tribute to, frankly it was. The debt for that and the debt is that it is not always pleasant to give it back, but "took", "give back". And then they lent a lot.

    Let's look at the motivator now. Housing only for grandmothers (I am telling you as a person registered in a communal apartment of 19 sq. M with his family, only 4 people. We have been standing in front soon for 20 years. Education? Well, there is free, but not enough, and this is still not much we divide by two, These are purchased places, in short, almost no. They pay themselves. Medicine? Yes, you are desperate to sit with your grandmothers to be accepted, but if they did, something more happened. Some areas are generally free of charge. God forbid, what kind of dentures or dental doctor (although it’s better to operate for free, I admit). I think everyone has heard about kindergarten, you can not count. And so in all spheres of life. If in the country of Soviets the state really did outstanding things for its people, then Russia is not such a country, and The motivator is, to put it mildly, blurry. And many ask the question “What did the country give me so that I would end up in uncomfortable conditions for myself with a certain risk?” Many will say “but what about the Motherland,” in general, I agree. It's hard to argue here.
    But before we had socialism, everything was state, and now everything is private. And under the changed conditions, you want to receive the "debt" in the same form. although they themselves proclaimed the policy "we have everything for money." It turns out "everything for money" for us, and return the "debt".
    From this, such processes in society occur. I hope not very long. I do not impose my opinion, I just consider it necessary to decompose it.
    1. Dr. M3
      Dr. M3 25 May 2013 10: 51 New
      -3
      one adequate person appeared. in the sea of ​​inadequate, eager to put everyone in the "army" immediately after "18 years".
      1. BDRM 667
        BDRM 667 25 May 2013 11: 09 New
        0
        Dr. M3

        Not so long ago was Dr.M2... And how many more modifications do you have?
      2. lewerlin53rus
        lewerlin53rus 25 May 2013 11: 15 New
        0
        Fenix57, you look, your competitor has appeared! Risen from the ashes! laughing .The conversation is generally about dodgers, and not those who have a legal reprieve from military service. Dr. Min some sort of order, he himself served in the Army to judge whether he should serve or not?
    2. DMB87
      DMB87 25 May 2013 10: 56 New
      +1
      Yes, our country is sick with capitalism, but if your mother is sick, m. mentally unwell, then you are waiting for recovery to help her?
  27. Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 25 May 2013 10: 51 New
    -2
    Quote: Vitamoralle
    The main thing is that after this tax they do not speak, Stalin did not serve, but what a "man" he became. True, he legally escaped military service (due to a hand broken in childhood, which did not grow together correctly).


    It pops up in my memory that Stalin under the Tsar still fought on the invisible front, or am I mistaken? And he certainly knew how to shoot.
    1. DMB87
      DMB87 25 May 2013 10: 59 New
      +1
      In general, the IVS served as the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, God forbid everyone.
  28. koksalek
    koksalek 25 May 2013 10: 54 New
    -1
    A one-sided article, there is not a word about the reasons that motivate young people to mow, the whole point is how to bend those who walk in bast shoes and hunchback even more so.
    1. Volodin
      25 May 2013 12: 33 New
      +3
      What is meant by "reasons for young people to mow"? Does this also need to be discussed? Yes, just such young people, as hockey player Kovalchuk recently said (albeit on a different occasion), shit ... that's all the reasons with the motivation ... Everyone who wants is looking for an opportunity, who does not want reasons; this also fits here.
    2. ben05
      ben05 25 May 2013 15: 48 New
      0
      I clicked the plus, the minus came out, it's not my fault, I'm sorry.
  29. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 25 May 2013 10: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: Atlon
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Or maybe everything is easier "decided to save money" The concept of defender of the Fatherland is not only on the front line to rise in attack

    Are you a dodger? smile
    As for the rear ... I have one grandfather fought in the Second World War, and the other is not. He was a home front worker, worked at a chemical plant. Doros to the chief engineer of the enterprise. But the fact of the matter is that even in his student years, while studying at Saratov University, in the morning hurrying to lecture, he fell from the foot of the tram, and his leg was cut off ... so he didn’t get to the front.

    I’m not a deviator (I just wrote that I didn’t serve) in the beginning of the 90s and then I worked in state structures .. and studied at my own expense .. and s / n at that time .. everyone ran into business .. I just worked .. and someone was supposed to do this work, and I also knew that this foam would settle .. and Russia would rise .. that’s my sons growing .. If there is a threat to my country, I will volunteer (I shoot well and understand the technique so I have time I didn’t lose in vain ... maybe I can even replace the whole platoon of employees .. (maybe I brag)
    1. Dr. M3
      Dr. M3 25 May 2013 11: 01 New
      0
      if you pick selected freaks, and among those who served there are not so many, but MUCH, then such an adequate person will replace the company.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 25 May 2013 19: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      I'm not a dodger (I just wrote that I did not serve)

      Quote: MIKHAN
      .If there is a threat to my country I will go as a volunteer

      There is a threat, the homeland must be defended here and now, and not hypothetically during the third world war. My nephew went to serve, in the Strategic Missile Forces, on guard, they go on combat duty, and now it’s peacetime. So when you serve, then you will be the defender of the fatherland, but for now the smoker is a smoker in Africa too.
  30. Narrator.tales
    Narrator.tales 25 May 2013 11: 02 New
    0
    I graduated from school at the age of 17, before the draft year, and so almost all of my age in the city.
    I entered a technical university as a designer of small arms and cannon armaments, but here we closed the military department in 1996, and yet my department is closed and there is secret access to the Soviets and we get along well, but there is no military department, and that's how you want so turn around to us, but they won’t give us really working equipment, everywhere they drill holes in the trunks. What kind of experiments or firing here. Earlier we even had tanks, T-55 at least.
    there are two defense enterprises in the city, and if it’s very difficult to serve a year after university, it’s very difficult to get there and a salary of 12.000 or another two years to study again. The military department was left only at an agricultural university .... it is ridiculous. It is shameful to go there for familiarization practice and to drool.
    that's the problem. I will not go to the army after university, I will have to study to be accepted into a defense enterprise, and for a position "compatible with life." Better to return military departments to such universities as mine. I know how to peel potatoes, assemble an automatic machine, how to shoot from a mortar, let a conditionally empty mine and from a sau, I can use an empty cartridge case. digging too, the dacha is a blessing. and discipline was steeper than in the army at home.
    1. Larus
      Larus 25 May 2013 16: 42 New
      +1
      In general, it is necessary to close these departments everywhere, and you should serve at the military factory or at the rembat after graduating as a soldier, or take an academician and go off-profile to go to 18, it is easier with peers than later.
      1. Narrator.tales
        Narrator.tales 25 May 2013 19: 23 New
        0
        I’m 21 already, as I graduate and will be a master, then maybe the army, before education in the army, has nothing to do.
        1. Narrator.tales
          Narrator.tales 25 May 2013 19: 34 New
          0
          and why close the department? the toad strangles that someone instead of the drill passed the department?)
          1. Skunk
            Skunk 26 May 2013 22: 26 New
            0
            Here all the comments "must ..., force ..., everyone must ..., equalization for everyone ..." from people who are strangled by the toad, that they served as soldiers, and someone finished the department or did not serve at all.
            And what else to call all this nonsense in the comments?
  31. Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 25 May 2013 11: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Dr.M3
    if you pick selected freaks, and among those who served there are not so many, but MUCH, then such an adequate person will replace the company.

    Do not confuse potential and mechanics. When you are taught something for a long time, you do it automatically. And no civilian will ever replace a military man if he had a basic course and regular retraining. In general, he will always yield.
    1. Dr. M3
      Dr. M3 25 May 2013 11: 08 New
      0
      Of the freaks I suggested, more than half would have just fled, and a normal civilian would have remained at least to fight.
  32. Frunze
    Frunze 25 May 2013 11: 05 New
    0
    Quote: Dr.M3
    And according to the average quality of human material, the army can be in the first lines by such a criterion as patriotism, but according to the criterion, brains and experience can be in the top ten at the end among other places where you can join in the defense of the fatherland.

    You are ours fastidious, not ours. fool
    1. Dr. M3
      Dr. M3 25 May 2013 11: 07 New
      0
      I'm not squeamish. I am adequate. I judge it carefully. Not one-sided. Not categorically. For so people with a weak mind judge. It is even painful for me to see that people who sincerely consider themselves patriots demonstrate inferior intellect and are eager to drive everyone from 18 to the fence.
  33. Garrin
    Garrin 25 May 2013 11: 17 New
    0
    However, it immediately became clear that there are forces in the system of state power that do not want to exert financial pressure on draft deviators. Who belongs to such forces? Paradoxically, this is the Russian Government. It was from the Government that papers condemning the birth of the bill with a very original argument came from.

    Nothing paradoxical. It’s just that most of the apparatus and the government itself fall under this law.
  34. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 25 May 2013 11: 22 New
    +3
    Quote: Atlon
    Probably only from very remote villages ..

    As he turned 18, he appeared to my nephew, without a summons, to the military commissariat from the village with a desire to serve. The military enlistment office was extremely surprised that in general there are those who come themselves.
    1. lecturer
      lecturer 25 May 2013 12: 37 New
      +8
      I was not taken to the SA (my mother was one pension ... I went to the Military Commissariat myself!) I served in military unit 48680 "B" ... congenital ... ") with a scandal to the military commissar! - in the end, he served in Abkhazia!
      PS And how nice it is to be Proud (not to brag!) And I’m sure that the grandchildren will be just as stubborn!
  35. vkusniikorj
    vkusniikorj 25 May 2013 11: 38 New
    -4
    I'm sure many spit about, but I must say.
    let's separate the flies from the cutlets. Before the collapse there was a Union of Secular Socialist Republics and every citizen was MUST and OBLIGED!
    under the current Gayro-Russian system, I and my descendants owe nothing to anyone! and all the cries of the MOTHERLAND, I send to Abramovich, Vekselberg, pedros ....... do you want to be protected? -PAY !!!!!!!!! ! and pay well suzuki. do not pay, leave EVERYTHING and FALL to ...!
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 25 May 2013 12: 18 New
      +7
      Quote: vkusniikorj
      My descendants and I do not owe anything to anyone!

      Yes, you are absolutely right. Nobody owes anything to anyone. Nor do you state. nor the state to you. This should be remembered well !. You paid taxes, received medical care, you did not go to serve in the army, protect others, do not demand that someone protect you and your family. Nobody owes anyone!
      1. vkusniikorj
        vkusniikorj 25 May 2013 14: 45 New
        -6
        YOU protect? but it seems to me that they are clearing you! it’s not sweet for us here, but at least they don’t cut like sheep. And if it does, then there is free sale of weapons, there is something to protect yourself! Do you all hope for a good ram?
        so you have two of them !!
      2. vkusniikorj
        vkusniikorj 25 May 2013 14: 56 New
        -6
        catch up!
        I paid tax! of this money, please not the Olympics for thieves loafers, but contain the army !!!
        kindly open your eyes! The military-industrial complex produces 3 aircraft, 2 tanks, a quarter-ship and 1 rocket per year. What are you supposed to protect? Take a mosquito and go to the forest to make exploits.
        1. korm-yurii
          korm-yurii 25 May 2013 16: 28 New
          +1
          To host the Olympics, many countries want this, but not many can, like your gypsy Romania, for example.
          1. vkusniikorj
            vkusniikorj 25 May 2013 16: 39 New
            -7
            What do you say from the gods? It is clear that you have not studied geography or history. Yes, you do not need it. you are Russian !
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 25 May 2013 19: 37 New
              +1
              Quote: vkusniikorj
              What do you say from the gods? It is clear that you have not studied geography or history. Yes, you do not need it. you are Russian !

              There is a parallel article about and d and about t about in, read please.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 25 May 2013 19: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: vkusniikorj
      My descendants and I do not owe anything to anyone!

      And this is said by a citizen of the state, which is obliged by the very fact of the existence of the Russian Army. Specifically YOU and your descendants owe ALL Russian soldiers so that you never pay.
      1. vkusniikorj
        vkusniikorj 25 May 2013 22: 53 New
        -3
        that is, you insist that I must go to the ground so that Abramovich could win the race whose yacht is longer? and which of us misunderstood the article about idiots?
        one of my grandfathers lay down near Perekop, my father was badly wounded near Koenigsberg, I was Czechoslovakia in 68. I took my 80th birth son from Russia, because her generals had a mania to take cities in one regiment. All the guys, we have given our debts to you!
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 25 May 2013 23: 08 New
          +1
          Quote: vkusniikorj
          that is, you insist that I must go to the ground so that Abramovich could win the race whose yacht is longer? and which of us misunderstood the article about idiots?
          one of my grandfathers lay down near Perekop, my father was seriously wounded near Koenigsberg, I was Czechoslovakia in 68. I took my 80th birth son from Russia, because her generals had the mania to take cities in one regiment. All the guys, we have given our debts to you!

          Blah blah blah.
          1. Not only your grandfather fought!
          2. Are you fighting for your family, for your home, for your children, or are you ready to sacrifice your own children to annoy Abramovich?
          3. You are not obliged to lie in the ground, you are obliged to put the enemy in the ground.
          1. vkusniikorj
            vkusniikorj 26 May 2013 01: 16 New
            0
            -3. You do not have to lie down in the ground, you must put the enemy in the ground.

            But who is stopping you from doing this? Go and lodge! No, you will come and say, - "The Motherland is in danger!", "All as one!"
            "Here's a grenade for you, see the tank !?
            so, in order to annoy Abramovich, I saved my children!
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 26 May 2013 07: 37 New
              0
              Quote: vkusniikorj
              so, in order to annoy Abramovich, I saved my children!

              You simply justify your flight from the country at a time difficult for the state, and as your life in Russia improves, people like you spit saliva and ooz poison into your FORMER homeland! And when the evil Teuton comes again, you will fall on your knees - Russia help, and they will send help like me, but you cannot learn from other people's experience.
              1. vkusniikorj
                vkusniikorj 26 May 2013 10: 27 New
                -1
                - "and as life improves in Russia."

                Are you telling this to someone? After all, my relatives live in Siberia. Come to the village and tell us about the improvement. I live in a three-story house with a bathhouse and a swimming pool in the yard, my grandchildren climb in sweet cherry in May .... and there ....
        2. Ivan.
          Ivan. 25 May 2013 23: 59 New
          0
          Quote: vkusniikorj
          we have given our debts to you!

          Who do you want?
          Quote: vkusniikorj
          that I must lie in the ground for Abramovich to

          The oath sounds "from internal and external" when did the Abramovichs cease to be enemies? And we must sooner or later they "lie in the ground" or do you wash your hands? Or did you defend a foreign country?
          Quote: vkusniikorj
          sons of 80 g of birth I took out from Russia

          Did you bury her? Hurried ...
          Russia is not your homeland? Moldova all the more ...
          1. vkusniikorj
            vkusniikorj 26 May 2013 01: 29 New
            0
            Russia is not your homeland? Moldova all the more ...
            I'm tired of giving back to my homeland.
            I built cities and factories, I raised her sons, I forgave her (Motherland) what she did to me, but I’m not ready to give the life of my sons for today's Russia!
        3. ded10041948
          ded10041948 27 May 2013 00: 37 New
          0
          The Russian army consists not only of Grachevs! Ask your father (if he still considers you a son!).
  36. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 25 May 2013 12: 14 New
    +5
    additional taxation will be applied to those men (up to 45 years old) who at one time evaded military service without any reason

    And rightly so. Moreover, it is necessary to create an atmosphere of intolerance towards such "warriors". For example, I categorically refuse to congratulate such people on February 23 and declare this to their faces. The one who did not serve due to his illness can be seen from afar and my dislike does not concern him.
  37. lecturer
    lecturer 25 May 2013 12: 22 New
    +3
    And besides taxes (!) - to remove all privileges from "Judas" !!!!!!!!
  38. panych
    panych 25 May 2013 12: 33 New
    +1
    In the USSR, there was an article in the Criminal Code for evasion from service, but for some reason there were "evaders" in those days, and they talk about it with pride. As I understand it, in certain power structures, evading military service is not considered a crime. Soon, and evasion tax will be encouraged?
    1. olegyurjewitch
      olegyurjewitch 25 May 2013 18: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Panych
      In the USSR there was an article in the Criminal Code for evasion from service, but for some reason there were "evaders" in those days, and they talk about it with pride

      They did not serve, they just had a military (white or wolf, whatever you want) ticket for the mark, and then some were given the mark "7b", and then when they were admitted to the university or what work the doors were closed.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. Good fellow
    Good fellow 25 May 2013 12: 55 New
    +7
    Good afternoon, men!
    Of course, we do little for our guys, those who stood and are standing guard over the Motherland. We have children who have passed through Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Chechnya, there are a lot of people with disabilities, forgotten, not by us, but by the state. We are shown how "golden youth" enters elite universities, how they then work in the state. apparatus and corporations, they are at customs, I even remember the scandal when such healthy and beautiful filming videos about their work, how they bathe in gold at customs. Why am I ?! But somehow it was disgusting, men, at the border, guarded the country, many died, many disabled, life stopped with them. Someone should first of all study and work at the same customs. Such guys did not allow caravans to pass, an Afghan carrying heroin in his intestines across the border, knowing by their example all the burden and responsibility laid on their shoulders. The guys would be happy to unlearn, and then they would work there. Here they are the real golden youth!
    I remembered the story of Robert Heinlein "Space Marine" and the model of the state, where only the served is considered a citizen of the country and enjoys all the benefits, and not the one who has served is infringed on his rights.
  41. Alikovo
    Alikovo 25 May 2013 13: 09 New
    0
    It would be better to tax 25-30%.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 25 May 2013 15: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Alikovo
      It would be better to tax 25-30%.

      I think that if everyone were calculated and everyone was "imposed", then it would be enough to maintain a professional army.
  42. Genady1976
    Genady1976 25 May 2013 13: 14 New
    0
    all my acquaintances have children slanted from the army
  43. Volkhov
    Volkhov 25 May 2013 13: 52 New
    0
    Why so much controversy - everything was explained on TV yesterday:
    OF GRADUATES OF SECONDARY SCHOOLS AND SCHOOLS 800 000 - this means that the youths are about 400 tons, but the children of foreigners graduate from school, that is, draftees no more than 300 tons, and this, together with patients, students, Caucasians, that is, a real annual recruiting resource of about 200 tons.
    That is, they just played enough in democracy - about 60 million citizens of Russia, if more due to grandmothers and homeless people, then there is no difference. The USSR easily called for 1500 tons a year in service for 2 years, and this call will not be able to see each other if they are placed along the border.
    GLORY OF STABILITY
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 25 May 2013 19: 40 New
      0
      Let's take it differently.
      Population 120 million
      60 million - male
      60 years - life expectancy
      Total 1 million - an annual appeal.
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 26 May 2013 01: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Setrac
        Total 1 million - an annual appeal.

        Well, if there are 800 schoolchildren (graduates), then you will have to call both sexes, foreigners and parents 000.
        The number of graduates speaks of the population, while citizens are not all.
        Just censorship was pierced, they gave a real figure, and the myth of 146 million was ordered to live long - a double error.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 26 May 2013 07: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Volkhov
          Well, if there are 800 schoolchildren (graduates), then you will have to call both sexes, foreigners and parents 000.
          The number of graduates speaks of the population, while citizens are not all.
          Just censorship was pierced, they gave a real figure, and the myth of 146 million was ordered to live long - a double error.

          Given that not everyone goes to grades 10-11, the figure of 800000 is a lot.
  44. rauffg
    rauffg 25 May 2013 13: 53 New
    +3
    my company soldier served with a heart defect. several times when he was standing in outfits on the bedside table he fell unconscious, they pumped out he served further. They offered to commit, refused. He said that he had given the military commissar a bribe in order to serve, since he was from a small town in which there was no work and after the army he wanted to go to the police. True, they still commited it for a different reason, the child was born.
  45. rauffg
    rauffg 25 May 2013 13: 57 New
    +4
    I also have a cousin, a police colonel. He has a son to study at a technical school. When asked where his son wants to go further, he replied: “I don’t know where he (the son) wants to go, but he will enter the army first.”
  46. GELEZNII_KAPUT
    GELEZNII_KAPUT 25 May 2013 13: 59 New
    0
    I just didn’t slope 1993, but when I came from the training unit, I was shocked, 30% of the soldiers were stabbed, not a unit, but a hangout, I would have known it! Maybe of course I ended up unsuccessfully! wassat
  47. individual
    individual 25 May 2013 14: 11 New
    0
    I read the comments of the members of the forum and, unfortunately, I see texts that justify not fulfilling the constitutional duty on appeal to the ranks of the Russian Army and Navy.
    Those who support L. Alekseev who have American citizenship need to know that there is a law of Russia and before the abolition of its provisions on the draft, citizens have no right to avoid its implementation, for no good reason.
    Citizens who do not comply with the Law should, without discussion, and not immediately bear personal responsibility.
    The liberal political leadership of Russia itself has created a failed appeal. And it should itself fix the personnel replenishment of the Russian armed forces.
  48. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 25 May 2013 14: 20 New
    +3
    I didn’t serve either - I cut it. Now I'm sorry. In general, it should be like in the American film "Starship Troopers" (I stole this idea from Medinsky). Citizenship, i.e. the right to co-govern the country is given only to its defenders. This also applies to the civil service: if a person's mother is sick or has a stomach ulcer, then how you, poor fellow, will serve the country in an important position. Suddenly, the stomach will twist or it is urgently necessary to run to the mother with medicines, and what, the state should suffer?
    1. Kahlan amnell
      Kahlan amnell 26 May 2013 12: 19 New
      0
      Actually, Heinlein had a different idea in Starship Troopers. Only a warrior, who daily, hourly risking his life, is responsible for making decisions.
      "Violence, sheer force, in the history of mankind has solved many more issues than any other factor, and the opposite opinion does not even have the right to be called a concept. Fools who forget this main truth in the history of mankind always pay, or, in any case, paid for this thoughtlessness with his life and freedom ... One more year, another class unlearned - and another defeat.You can still put some knowledge in a child, but it seems impossible to teach an adult to think.
      Suddenly he pointed a finger at me:
      - You. What difference in morality, if any, lies between a warrior and a civilian?
      “The difference,” I said, frantically thinking, “is the difference in the sphere of civic duties, civic duty.” A warrior, a soldier, takes personal responsibility for the security of the political association of which he is a member, and for the protection of which he must sacrifice his life if necessary. A civilian is not required to do this.
      “Almost word for word from the textbook,” Dubois said, as always dismissively. “But do you even understand what you just said?” Do you believe in that?
      - …I dont know. sir…
      - Of course you don't! In general, I doubt that any of you are capable of remembering your “civic duty” even in the most extreme circumstances. "
  49. broker
    broker 25 May 2013 14: 34 New
    +2
    The appeal must be made up to 45 years and not taxes, then for many draft evaders the desire to mow the whole 27 years will disappear)))
    1. Genady1976
      Genady1976 25 May 2013 14: 59 New
      0
      Cool boys 18l and among them uncles 45l then until retirement
      1. broker
        broker 25 May 2013 15: 09 New
        +1
        This is called sharing experience)
  50. My doctor
    My doctor 25 May 2013 14: 49 New
    0
    It is sad for the forum participants, but the overwhelming majority of fellow citizens have an opinion on the implementation of the constitutional debt that does not coincide with theirs.