Napoleon: War as a Search for a Foreign Army

4 503 72
Napoleon: War as a Search for a Foreign Army
This is the painting "Napoleon and his Staff" (French: Napoléon et son état-major), painted by the artist Jean-Louis-Ernest Meissonier in 1868.


The turning point of the Napoleonic era didn't emerge in the ranks or the armory. It occurred in the very conception of the war: the target shifted from the provinces to the enemy army.



An 18th-century commander, opening a campaign, looked for a fortress on the map. Napoleon looked for the enemy army. This shift in perspective is more meaningful than any single tactical innovation of the era. A century later, the Russian military theorist Alexander Svechin, whose "Strategy" was published in the 1920s, would formulate that Napoleon broke with the strategy of attrition, a war of attrition that avoids decisive battle. The formula is precise, and its essence lies in a change in goal, not technique: it wasn't how war was fought that changed, but what it was fought for. Previously, war was fought for space, slowly flowing from one besieged wall to another. Now it sought out the enemy in order to destroy him.

Three lines converge


Bonaparte didn't enter an empty field. By the beginning of his campaigns, three lines of development in European military affairs, stretching back decades, had converged, and he wasn't the one who initiated each.

The first was the mass army. The French Revolution brought to the battlefield not the professionals of the dynastic state, but citizens conscripted by levée en masse, the general recruitment of the nation with weapons In hand. A mass army meant more than just an increase in numbers. Motivation shifted: soldiers went to fight for the Fatherland, not for the sovereign, and for the first time the state could rely on the human and material potential of the entire nation. Prussian General Gerhard Scharnhorst, the brains behind the military reforms that followed the defeat of 1806, would link this to the very possibility of victory: it was achievable only where the nation had learned to utilize all its resources.

The second line was the destruction of class barriers. The officer corps of revolutionary France was recruited based on ability to command. Origins ceased to matter: men of humble origins rose quickly, and Bonaparte himself proved to be perhaps the most striking example of this. The army received commanders selected for their ability to think and act.

Military thought was the third line of thought. Even before the Revolution, theorists criticized armchair warfare for its caution and reliance on a cordon strategy, whereby troops were stretched along the border and fought a battle of attrition, hunting for fortresses instead of the enemy's field army. Count Jacques-Antoine-Hippolyte de Guibert, a French military writer whose treatises were read throughout educated Europe, insisted on mobile warfare, columns and light infantry, and a divisional organization that gave units autonomy. Added to this was a technological shift: artillery It became lighter and more mobile, calibers were standardized, and horse artillery capable of supporting an offensive emerged. Cannon ceased to be a tool of defense and siege.

Napoleon found all three lines already in place. His achievement lay in the unification: he combined a mass army, a flexible doctrine, and mobile artillery into a single plan. Svechin put it this way: the revolution gave Bonaparte colossal moral and material forces, and he found the best use for them at the time.

New target


The main change concerned the objective. For many commanders of the previous century, a campaign ended with the capture of fortresses, advantageous positions, and the acquisition of territories. Battle remained a tool, and it was avoided whenever possible: the risk was too great, the cost too uncertain. Napoleon set a different objective: to defeat the enemy's armed forces and thereby break their political will.

Essentially, this was a shift from limited to decisive goals: not the seizure of provinces, but complete capitulation. The German historian Hans Delbrück would later distinguish two strategies at opposite poles: the strategy of attrition, which wears down the enemy with maneuver and threats, and the strategy of crushing, which seeks a decisive outcome in battle. Svechin largely inherited this dichotomy, and Napoleon is the model crusher in it. And here's an unexpected consequence: the shift to crushing didn't complicate strategy, but simplified it. Eighteenth-century strategy, with its cordons, demonstrations, and maneuvers around fortresses, was the art of complex combinations. Reducing the objective to a single dominant factor (the defeat of the main army) brought a deceptive simplicity to strategy. Marches, regroupings, and feints were now subordinated to preparation for a decisive battle, and victory was followed by an equally consistent pursuit, bringing success to a political conclusion.


François Gérard's painting depicts the Battle of Austerlitz (1805), also known as the "Battle of the Three Emperors"

The campaigns of 1805 and 1806 demonstrated this mechanism in its purest form. The war against Austria was decided at Austerlitz, where Napoleon routed the combined armies of the Russian and Austrian emperors in a single day; the war against Prussia was decided at Jena, after which the Prussian state collapsed within weeks. In both cases, the battle was followed by a swift pursuit, turning military success into capitulation. The battle ceased to be an episode and became the axis around which the entire campaign coalesced.

This simplicity, however, had its limits. In Spain, where there was neither a single army nor a single capital whose destruction would have decided the matter, the method stalled: guerrilla warfare dragged on for years, devouring forces without a decisive battle. And the 1812 campaign turned disastrous precisely where Napoleon sought a decisive outcome: the enemy evaded it, retreating into the depths, leaving nothing to crush. The model worked against a mustered army with a vulnerable capital at its back. Where such a target was absent, it failed.

Geometry of Superiority


Let's say the goal is clear—find and defeat the enemy army. But how can you defeat it if you have fewer forces? Napoleon relied on what was later called the central position and interior lines.

The idea is simple. The army takes up a position between the enemy's divided forces and attacks them one by one, moving troops along the shortest routes. While the enemy moves along the outer perimeter, enveloping the central force, the army moves inside, along the chord. Communication lines and marching routes are shorter, giving it superiority in each direction, even with a smaller overall force.


A visual model of this calculation is presented in a popular article by writer Yevgeny Agafonov; however, the same calculation is easily accomplished by a school exercise book, without any big names involved. Imagine an army of ninety thousand men occupying a central position, and two enemy armies of eighty thousand each, spread out to the sides. Combined, the enemy is twice as strong. But if it fails to unite, the central army descends first on one group, then on the other, and in each individual skirmish, its ninety thousand outnumber the eighty. The weaker force, in aggregate, proves stronger where the armies meet. This isn't a strict theorem, but a convenient image, but it conveys the meaning accurately: victory goes to the one who forces the enemy to fight piecemeal.

Hence the principle that became the signature of Napoleonic warfare: march separately, fight together. Corps march along separate roads, maintaining freedom of maneuver and facilitating supply, but converging into a single mass at the moment of attack.

Instrument in use: 1796 and 1814


The principle is good because it works both ways—on the offensive and on the defensive. The two campaigns, separated by eighteen years, read like mirror images of the same idea.


This is the painting "Colonel Rampon Defending the Redoubt of Monte Legino" (French: Le chef de brigade Rampon défend la redoute de Monte-Legino), painted by the artist René Théodore Berton. The canvas depicts an episode from the Battle of Montenotte, which took place on April 12, 1796.

In 1796, in Italy, the young Bonaparte found himself between disunited Austrian and Piedmontese forces and maneuvered to defeat them separately before they could close ranks. Here, the central position worked to the attacker's advantage: a wedge between the two armies, striking one after the other, without waiting for the enemy to gather its strength.

In 1814, in France, the same geometry saved the defender. The balance of forces was against Napoleon, the allied armies were attacking from different directions, but he maneuvered between them, inflicting a series of individual defeats and preventing the enemy from collapsing in their entirety. Svechin noted that even with the enemy's overall numerical superiority, Napoleon sought to defeat them piecemeal, skillfully exploiting the mobility of his troops. These are seemingly opposites: the young general rushes forward, the aging emperor snarls from the defensive. However, the approach is the same.

What holds the system together?


There was one more thing left, and without it, everything mentioned above was meaningless: initiative. A central position only gives an advantage to the one who dictates the tempo. Napoleon imposed his own directions and timing on the enemy, leaving no time to gather forces and develop their own plan. Rapid marches, reconnaissance, stealth, and sudden maneuvers forced the enemy to respond to his moves instead of making their own.

All of this builds on one another. The goal is to find and destroy the army. The tools for this are the central position and interior lines. And none of this works without initiative, without the right to set the pace. Carl von Clausewitz, who lived through the Napoleonic Wars and pondered them until the end of his life, would call the vulnerable core of the enemy's power the center of gravity, and for Napoleon, this center was almost always the enemy's field army. The former commander, having captured a fortress, considered the job done and withdrew his troops to winter quarters. For Napoleon, a captured wall meant almost nothing: he continued to scout the army on the map, because he intended to destroy it.
72 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. 0
    17 June 2026 04: 54
    There was no defeat at Borodino and, accordingly, there was no pursuit.
    1. 0
      17 June 2026 08: 52
      It doesn't matter, retreat is part of an army's maneuver and there's nothing shameful about it. There was pursuit, but it was already sluggish. Like the joke: if I don't catch up, I'll warm up, and am I running too fast? Napoleon proved himself a brilliant tactician and a very poor strategist and politician.
      1. +1
        17 June 2026 11: 54
        I agree that Napoleon's primary goal was the destruction of the enemy army, as the Patriotic War of 1812 clearly demonstrated. Napoleon pursued the armies of Bagration and Barclay, attempting to defeat them individually. Then he pursued Kutuzov's combined army to Borodino and after the battle. But what a disaster! Later, in retrospect, Napoleon dubbed the 1812 campaign the "March on Moscow." belay Everything seemed to be going well, the "capital of Asia" (that's what he called it) had been captured. The goal of the campaign seemed to have been achieved. And then there was General Moroz, the partisans fighting "against the rules," and so on. In short, Defeated commanders love to sit at their desks and replay battles and campaigns retroactively. fellow This cup did not pass even such a great commander as Bonaparte. lol
        1. +5
          17 June 2026 12: 08
          Quote: Proxima
          Everything seemed to be going well; the "capital of Asia" (as he called it) had been captured. The goal of the campaign had apparently been achieved.

          Not at all ...
          Napoleon understood perfectly well that he had not achieved a single one of his goals. Therefore, from Moscow, he tried his best to persuade Alexander to peace.
          1. +2
            17 June 2026 18: 30
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Not at all ...
            Napoleon understood perfectly well that he had not achieved a single one of his goals. Therefore, from Moscow, he tried his best to persuade Alexander to peace.

            Who would argue with you!! I think I wrote it clearly that Napoleon retroactively presented it as a campaign against Moscow.Putting a good face on a bad game. negative
            1. +1
              17 June 2026 18: 48
              Quote: Proxima
              I think I wrote it clearly.

              Unfortunately, I didn't understand this. Maybe it's because I'm sick and my thinking is really bad. hi
    2. -3
      17 June 2026 15: 35
      There was no defeat at Borodino

      The Russian army was defeated at Borodino, no matter how much school textbooks try to portray it differently. But Russia isn't Prussia, and the weather conditions are completely different, so retreat is possible indefinitely...
      1. +2
        17 June 2026 18: 58
        Quote: Murmillo

        The Russian army was defeated at Borodino, no matter how much they try to present it differently in school textbooks.

        Nonsense! To avoid offending the French and Napoleon fans, Borodino was a battle with an uncertain outcome for both sides. You don't have to look far for similarities—Preussisch-Eylau—the outcome was uncertain. And just like at Borodino, Napoleon and Bennigsen claimed victory. Before categorically declaring the "defeat of the Russian army," two things should be known. First, Kutuzov was hopelessly inferior to Napoleon in the number of regular troops. Moreover, I included the Cossacks in the “regular” ones! belay Numerous militiamen with spears and axes did not take part in the battle, with the exception of one piquant episode! stop And secondly, by the end of the battle, the French had retreated from all their positions! The battlefield remained Kutuzov's. There was no point in the French holding their positions. request Napoleon needed the positions tactically to defeat the Russians, but there was no defeat!
        1. +2
          17 June 2026 21: 28
          Quote: Proxima
          Nonsense! To avoid offending the French and Napoleon fans, Borodino was a battle with an uncertain outcome for both sides.

          Draw.
          The Franks' goal is to defeat the Russian army. Unsuccessful.
          The Russians' task is to stop the Franks. It has not been accomplished.
          request
          1. 0
            17 June 2026 23: 23
            The Russians' task of expelling the united army of all of Europe has been accomplished.
            Pursuing the fleeing enemies to their capital has also been decided.
            1. +1
              18 June 2026 08: 30
              Quote: Amin_Vivec
              The Russians' task of expelling the united army of all of Europe has been accomplished.

              At Borodino? belay
      2. 0
        17 June 2026 23: 21
        How far did they retreat? To Kaluga, to Tarutino??? 180 km – 2 hours by car.
        Where is flight, where is endless retreat, and where is pursuit and defeat?
  2. +1
    17 June 2026 05: 02
    Napoleon bit off more than he could chew, ultimately losing everything—choking. His reputation as a military genius is overstated. Of course, many blame poor roads, like at Waterloo, or severe frosts, like in Russia. Just like they "sympathize" with Hitler. As if the Allied armies at Waterloo were moving on cobblestones, and as if the winter frosts in Russia didn't chill even Russian soldiers. So Napoleon lost his major battles, having won indecisive ones before. Just like Hitler. He lost his main battle at Stalingrad...
    1. +4
      17 June 2026 05: 29
      Quote: north 2
      Well, just like Hitler. He lost his main battle at Stalingrad...

      I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the Battle of Stalingrad was never the most important battle for either Hitler or the Great Patriotic War. Yes, I understand that some school textbooks claim this, but that's an oversimplification... for schoolchildren.
      Quote: north 2
      Of course, many blame bad roads, like at Waterloo, or severe frosts, like in Russia.

      Waterloo meant absolutely nothing to Napoleon. Just as his defeat in Russia had been decided long before winter.
      1. +4
        17 June 2026 07: 19
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Waterloo meant absolutely nothing to Napoleon.

        It decided everything—the core of the entire combat-ready army he had managed to scrape together was destroyed. In any case, Napoleon disagreed with you.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        But the Battle of Stalingrad was never the main one for either Hitler or the Great Patriotic War.

        So no single battle can decide the outcome of the entire war. But that's true. Stalingrad was a secondary objective for Hitler, but it became a thorn in his side during the advance into the Caucasus. Leaving an enemy army behind that could be attacked from the rear is pointless.
        1. +6
          17 June 2026 07: 45
          Quote: Prometey
          It decided everything

          Waterloo no longer decided anything. Napoleon lost everything the moment Europe resisted his return and rose up—massive forces were in motion, with over a million soldiers advancing or preparing to advance on France. Exhausted, France was fundamentally incapable of forming an army capable of stopping troops of such numbers, so the victory or loss of Waterloo was a question of how much longer Napoleon would have held out and how many more he would have killed before his second abdication.
          Quote: Prometey
          So no single battle can decide the outcome of the entire war.

          This is undoubtedly true. But in general, if anyone is to be awarded the status of a battle that determined the outcome of the Great Patriotic War (which should not be done for the reasons you stated), it should be given to the Battle of Moscow.
          1. +1
            17 June 2026 08: 27
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Exhausted France could not, in principle, form an army capable of stopping troops of such numbers.

            Well, no one seems to dispute that. As for the fact that Waterloo didn't decide anything, that's just our character trait; we just can't admit that we weren't the ones who utterly defeated Napoleon.
            1. +3
              17 June 2026 08: 49
              Quote: Prometey
              We simply cannot admit that it was not we who were able to completely defeat Napoleon.

              Why? His power was destroyed precisely during the war of 1812. And he also suffered defeat at the hands of Russian troops, including the Battle of Leipzig.
              1. 0
                17 June 2026 10: 54
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                His power was destroyed precisely during the war of 1812. And he also suffered defeat at the hands of Russian troops, including the Battle of Leipzig.

                The Battle of Leipzig was an allied battle. And there was no defeat there.
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                His power was destroyed precisely during the war of 1812.

                Okay, okay. The Russian army took almost two years to reach France.
                1. +2
                  17 June 2026 12: 11
                  Quote: Prometey
                  The Battle of Leipzig was an allied battle.

                  And what's wrong with that?
                  Quote: Prometey
                  And there was no destruction there.

                  Yes. After Leipzig, Napoleon was effectively left without an army.
                  Quote: Prometey
                  Okay, okay. The Russian army took almost two years to reach France.

                  Even if we consider Stalingrad the decisive battle of WWII, the time until the end of the war is the same. And?
                  The point is that after 1812 Napoleon could no longer win
          2. 0
            17 June 2026 09: 24
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            then it should be awarded to the Battle of Moscow.

            Kursk, Operations Bagration and Uranus will disagree with you. wassat
            1. +6
              17 June 2026 09: 44
              Quote from: AllX_VahhaB
              Kursk, Operations Bagration and Uranus will disagree with you.

              You are very mistaken.
              If any operation is to be designated as a battle that determined the outcome of WWII, then the criteria for this designation must be defined. And there can only be one criterion: after this battle, Germany's defeat was predetermined.
              So, Germany's defeat was predetermined precisely after the Battle of Moscow. After that, the OKW saw no way to defeat the USSR militarily.
              1. 0
                17 June 2026 10: 53
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                After this, the OKW saw no way to defeat the USSR by military means.

                Are you referring to the OKW (Oberkommando der Wehrmacht)? And what is this statement of yours based on? If only on Keitel's testimony during the interrogation in June 1945, then hindsight makes everything sound sound. Moreover, this is his purely subjective personal opinion. Since, for example, Jodl said that After the culmination point was passed in mid-1942, it became obvious to both the generals and the Führer that victory in the war was no longer achievable So he meant Stalingrad! And that's also his personal opinion...
                1. 0
                  17 June 2026 10: 59
                  Quote from: AllX_VahhaB
                  If Keitel's testimony during his interrogation in June 1945 is the only valid one, then hindsight is everything. Moreover, it was his purely subjective personal opinion.

                  Not only him, but also Tippelskirch, for example. And the war plan for 1942 is the best proof of this.
                  Quote from: AllX_VahhaB
                  For example, Jodl said that after the climax in mid-1942 was passed, it became obvious to both the generals and the Führer that victory in the war was no longer achievable. That is, he was referring to Stalingrad! And this, too, is his personal opinion...

                  Sorry, but Stalingrad couldn't have been the culmination point - the battle began in July 42, and according to Jodl, the culmination had already passed :)
                  1. 0
                    17 June 2026 11: 24
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Sorry, but Stalingrad couldn't have been the culmination point - the battle began in July 42, and according to Jodl, the culmination had already passed :)

                    Well, July is the middle of the year. Once we reached Stalingrad, the rapid advance ended—the climax had passed.
                    However, the question is purely rhetorical, the argument pointless. Especially since I, too, don't consider any single operation of the Great Patriotic War to be absolutely decisive. In fact, I believe the war was won not so much at the front as in the rear! If the economy and industry hadn't been prepared, no amount of heroism by soldiers, the talents of commanders, or Lend-Lease would have saved the country against the combined might of Europe!
                    It's worth thinking about this today!
                    1. +1
                      17 June 2026 12: 12
                      Quote from: AllX_VahhaB
                      In general, I believe that the war was won not so much at the front as in the rear!

                      I won’t be so categorical, I would say both.
                2. 0
                  17 June 2026 14: 00
                  "That is, Stalingrad was meant!" - what was meant was the US entry into the war.
                  1. 0
                    17 June 2026 15: 29
                    When did the United States enter the war?
                    1. 0
                      17 June 2026 16: 56
                      In December 1941, understanding of what had happened came a little later. At the end of 1942, simultaneously with Stalingrad, the Allies landed in Tunisia, and in the summer of 1943, almost simultaneously with the Battle of Kursk, in Italy.
              2. 0
                17 June 2026 10: 55
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                So, Germany’s defeat was predetermined precisely after the Battle of Moscow.

                How did you determine this?
                1. +2
                  17 June 2026 12: 13
                  Quote: Prometey
                  How did you determine this?

                  I have already briefly outlined the reasons.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Germany could only defeat the USSR through a blitzkrieg, but it was thwarted precisely near Moscow. After this, the OKW saw no possibility of achieving victory over the USSR. The 1942 operational plan no longer envisaged defeating the USSR—the goals it set, even if achieved, did not lead to or create the preconditions for military victory. You can read the details in Tippelskirch's book.
                  1. +1
                    17 June 2026 13: 24
                    This is hindsight. After the Battle of Moscow, nothing was clear.
                    1. +2
                      17 June 2026 14: 07
                      Quote: Prometey
                      This is an afterthought.

                      Firstly, in this case, hindsight is not a vice; we evaluate the situation retrospectively and have the right to use it.
                      And secondly, the situation was quite obvious to the Wehrmacht leadership, which is clearly evident from their combat plan for 42.
            2. +3
              17 June 2026 13: 39
              Perhaps. But Andrei is right about one thing: it was at the end of 1941 that the USSR achieved its most significant strategic victory, changing the nature of the war. It was this change, the transition from a "lightning" to a "protracted war of attrition," that laid the foundation for future victory, making Stalingrad, the Kursk Bulge, and "Bagration" possible.
      2. 0
        17 June 2026 07: 33
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the Battle of Stalingrad was never the main one neither for Hitler, nor for WWII

        then disappoint me with evidence of this statement
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

        Waterloo decided absolutely nothing for Napoleon. Just as his defeat in Russia determined long before winter

        then from Napoleon's birthday Yes
        1. +6
          17 June 2026 08: 08
          Quote: Olgovich
          then disappoint me with evidence of this statement

          Perhaps you could first try to prove the assertion that the Battle of Stalingrad was decisive? :))))
          However, if you please. Germany could only defeat the USSR through a blitzkrieg, and it was thwarted precisely near Moscow. After this, the OKW saw no possibility of achieving victory over the USSR; the operational plan for 1942 no longer envisaged defeating the USSR—the goals it set, even if achieved, did not lead to or create the preconditions for military victory. You can read the details in Tippelskirch's book.
          Quote: Olgovich

          then from Napoleon's birthday

          (shrugging his shoulders) Do you seriously think that when Napoleon left Moscow he still had a chance of military victory? laughing
          1. +1
            17 June 2026 08: 30
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Germany could only defeat the USSR through a blitzkrieg, but it was thwarted near Moscow.

            So, it seemed the blitzkrieg had already been thwarted before reaching Moscow. In general, the Battle of Moscow marks the beginning of a war of attrition.
            1. 0
              17 June 2026 08: 47
              Quote: Prometey
              So it seems the blitzkrieg had already been thwarted before reaching Moscow.

              Strictly speaking, not quite. We thwarted the blitzkrieg, including during the defensive phase of the battle. In general, it was rightly said that there were no decisive battles in WWII.
          2. -1
            17 June 2026 11: 23
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            the plan of operations for 1942 no longer envisaged the defeat of the USSR

            This is so because Hitler made enormous plans for 1942 without providing them with resources.
            We are advancing on the Caucasus, we are advancing on Suez, we are establishing a naval blockade of Great Britain, and we are throwing the bulk of the Luftwaffe into defending the skies over Germany.
            Brilliant plan, Walter. Just..., if I understand correctly. Reliable as a Swiss watch.

            Purely theoretically, if Hitler had focused on one real achievement, there might still have been a chance. He could have gone on the defensive in the USSR and taken up Africa, then Rommel would have defeated the British and reached Iran, and from there Baku would have been a distant memory.
            Or forget about Africa and throw all our forces into the Caucasus. 1942 was a difficult year, and could have been even more difficult if Hitler hadn't been such a fool.
            1. +2
              17 June 2026 12: 55
              Quote: Puncher
              This is so because Hitler made enormous plans for 1942 without providing them with resources.

              Absolutely correct. So even Hitler understood that planning for the USSR's defeat in 1942 was impossible, so he limited himself to attempts to reduce the USSR's industrial potential.
              Quote: Puncher
              Purely theoretically, if Hitler had concentrated on one thing that was really achievable, then there would still have been a chance.

              In the USSR? Unlikely. Hitler couldn't convert submarines into tanks.
              Quote: Puncher
              He could have gone on the defensive in the USSR and taken up Africa, then Rommel would have defeated the British and reached Iran, and from there Baku would have been a piece of cake.

              He wouldn't have made it. Firstly, tanks simply couldn't get through there, and Germany would have been ruined without our help supplying a force taking that route. Secondly, what's the point? So what if Rommel had shown up with his three divisions at Baku? He was king of Africa with those forces, but here we would have worn him down with reserve divisions, without removing anything from the front...
              1. -1
                17 June 2026 17: 34
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Firstly, tanks simply couldn't get through there.

                You can get through, but
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                supply of a group traveling along this route

                This was a problem. But with the group's scale, it was solvable. However, Malta had to be captured first.
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Well, if Rommel showed up with his three divisions at Baku, what then?

                Rommel didn't need to reach Baku himself. The main thing was to take control of the Suez Canal and capture Alexandria, thereby depriving the British fleet of supplies. And without the British fleet, landing forces in Syria would have been possible without any problem. And it wouldn't have been the remnants of Rommel's divisions that reached Baku. This, of course, was a very difficult task that needed to be resolved quickly, because, as we already know, Operation Torch took place in November. Although, then again, it would have happened...
              2. -1
                17 June 2026 17: 42
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                We would have dismantled it with reserve divisions, without removing anything from the front...

                Hmmm... Who would have done that? 1942 was the offensive on Kharkov and the landing in Crimea. Transferring armies to Azerbaijan was very difficult. The only communications there were the "Georgian Military Highway" and along the Caspian coast. There were no others. The tunnel to Ossetia was only dug at the end of the 20th century. So, having captured Iran's oil, the Germans could have effectively captured the Baku mines as well. And then Germany gained access to vast oil resources, while the USSR, on the contrary, lost them. It's doubtful the Allies could have made up for the losses. The US certainly had plenty of Penza, but how to transport so much was a question.
                1. +3
                  17 June 2026 18: 04
                  Quote: Puncher
                  You can get through, but

                  No way. The equipment would break down halfway... But what roads am I talking about? There were no roads there.
                  Quote: Puncher
                  It is very difficult to transfer armies to Azerbaijan.

                  Quote: Puncher
                  That is, the Germans, having captured Iran’s oil, could in fact also capture the Baku mines.

                  Read about Operation "Consent." Iran was taken by the Red Army in August-September 1941, using 17 divisions combined into three armies. Incidentally, the British also helped. Later, units of both armies withdrew, but there were units in the area that had not participated in the capture of Iran.
                  In general, the Red Army fought the Germans with approximately 65-70% of its strength, if I remember correctly, the remaining units were in the East and along other borders. They were by no means defenseless, and Rommel would have encountered a superior enemy already in Iran.
                  Quote: Puncher
                  And now Germany gains access to enormous oil resources, while the USSR, on the contrary, loses them.

                  Well, you're being a bit overzealous here. Let's say they even took Baku. How are the Germans going to get oil from there to the Fatherland?
                  1. -4
                    18 June 2026 03: 23
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    No way. The equipment would break down halfway... But what roads am I talking about? There were no roads there.

                    Wherever you go, that's where you'll find your way. The problem is that you have to lug everything from spare engines to fresh water. This is undoubtedly a problem. However, let's not forget that Rommel covered 1300 km with a very modest force. If he had more equipment and men, he would have reached Alexandria, because the British had no reserves. Everything hung by a thread. It was precisely this lack of reserves (a Wehrmacht disease) that was Rommel's undoing.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Then parts of the two armies left from there, but there were units in that area that did not participate in the capture of Iran.

                    Almost all of Iran's equipment and troops were sent to the Kerch-Feodosia operation, where they perished. According to Google, 30 remained in Iran.
                    Rommel would have already met a superior enemy in Iran.

                    I'm not even saying Rommel would have reached Iran. All Rommel needed to do was capture the Suez Canal, neutralizing the Royal Navy. Without it, the Germans could have landed troops in Syria.
                    This is also all very risky, because as we know, in November the US landed troops in Casablanca.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Let's say they even took Baku. How are the Germans going to get oil from there to the Fatherland?

                    The Germans could have used the pipeline from Kirkuk to Haifa and Tripoli to transport oil. Baku oil wouldn't have been able to get there, of course, and probably neither would Iranian oil. But they would have gotten Iraqi oil.
          3. -1
            17 June 2026 11: 53
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Perhaps you could first try to prove the assertion that the Battle of Stalingrad was decisive?

            First there was your statement
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            And it was thwarted precisely near Moscow. After that, the OKW saw no possibility of achieving victory over the USSR.

            But I saw Talin - read order 227
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            (shrugging his shoulders) Do you seriously think that when Napoleon left Moscow he still had a chance of military victory?

            Yes, if it weren't for the Russian Army's Foreign Campaign
            1. +3
              17 June 2026 12: 07
              Quote: Olgovich
              First there was your statement

              First there was the statement of the person I was opposing
              Quote: north 2
              Well, just like Hitler. He lost his main battle at Stalingrad...

              So read the discussion first if you want to join in.
              Quote: Olgovich
              But I saw Talin - read order 227

              Totally out of place. The order was written for completely different purposes.
              Quote: Olgovich
              Yes, if it weren't for the Russian Army's Foreign Campaign

              Hitler would have won if the USSR had capitulated after Stalingrad.
              1. -1
                18 June 2026 07: 02
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                First there was the statement of the person I was opposing

                First there was the article he was commenting on
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Totally out of place. The order was written for completely different purposes.

                it is written for understanding reality defeats exactly in 42 g-there was no trace of this in 41:
                We have lost over 70 million people, over 800 million poods of grain per year, and over 10 million tons of metal per year. We no longer have a superiority over the Germans in either manpower or grain reserves. To retreat further would mean ruining ourselves andand at the same time destroy our Motherland.
                What's not clear?

                Stalngrad solved the problem.

                The Blitzerig adventure failed even at the planning stage and only the "art" of the Voroshilovs and their ilk brought it to Moscow.
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Hitler would have won if the USSR had capitulated after Stalingrad.

                belay what's the connection?
                1. +2
                  18 June 2026 07: 55
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  First there was the article he was commenting on

                  First there was the Earth, round and hot. And then the first life arose on it.
                  But in the discussion about this article, the first mention of WWII was in my opponent’s comment.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  It was written to help us understand the reality of the defeat in 42, something that never happened in 41:

                  No. It was written to motivate the Red Army to stop retreating.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The Blitzerig adventure failed even at the planning stage and only the "art" of the Voroshilovs and their ilk brought it to Moscow.

                  Stupidity
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  what's the connection

                  Direct. Firstly, I wrote
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Just like his defeat in Russia it was decided long before winter

                  What does a foreign campaign have to do with this? Secondly, if a country, after the enemy's defeat is certain, stops fighting, the enemy doesn't suffer defeat.
                  1. +1
                    19 June 2026 09: 16
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    At first there was the Earth, round and hot

                    No, first there was a black hole.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    No. It was written to motivate the Red Army to stop retreating.

                    No, it is written to show why one cannot retreat and the punishment for this.

                    Such disaster in 41 there was no trace of it - read the order.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Stupidity

                    So don't write them, I'll remind you of the axiom:
                    Operation Barbarossa - this is a military-strategic adventure Nazi Germany, which consisted of the idea of ​​a lightning-fast defeat of the USSR (blitzkrieg) in 3-5 months, before the onset of winter. Historically and from a military-strategic perspective, it is considered a reckless adventure due to the gross miscalculations of the German command..

                    This is an absolute misunderstanding of the mobilization and economic potential of the Soviet Union, an absolute misunderstanding of logistics, the superiority of the USSR in tanks, guns, etc.

                    Only "successful command" led to Moscow

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    What does a foreign trip have to do with it?

                    despite the fact that without him Napoleon's defeat was impossible
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    the enemy's defeat was determined

                    It wasn't decided BEFORE the campaign: it only separated Prussia and Austria from France.
                    1. -1
                      19 June 2026 10: 36
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      No, it is written to show why one cannot retreat and the punishment for this.

                      True. And the text of the order bears no relation whatsoever to the Wehrmacht's actual ability to conquer the USSR. Nor could it have—such an assessment from 1942 is impossible even theoretically, since the Soviet leadership lacked any comprehensive data on Germany's military potential.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      I will remind you of the axiom:
                      Operation Barbarossa was a Nazi German military-strategic gamble, which envisioned a lightning-fast defeat of the USSR (Blitzkrieg) within three to five months, before the onset of winter. Historically and strategically, it is considered a foolhardy gamble due to the gross miscalculations of the German command.

                      Olgovich, you're incredibly biased against the USSR and have invented a history of the Great Patriotic War that bears no resemblance to actual history. In reality, Barbarossa was a gamble precisely because the USSR was far superior to a typical capitalist country like France in its ability to mobilize material and labor resources, while the Red Army was superior to the Polish and French forces in both the motivation of its fighters and the military art with which it controlled them. In other words, it was precisely the USSR's strengths that made Barbarossa a gamble. But you've got it all backwards—it was a gamble, and only because of our stupidity did the Germans reach Moscow. wassat
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      despite the fact that without him Napoleon's defeat was impossible

                      Let's first learn to identify the simplest cause-and-effect relationships, and then judge history.
                      1. +1
                        19 June 2026 20: 07
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And the text of the order has nothing to do with the Wehrmacht's actual ability to conquer the USSR.

                        again about the real ability to lose to the Wehrmacht:
                        We lost more than 70 million people, more than 800 million poods of grain per year and more than 10 million tons of metal per year. We no longer have superiority over the Germans. neither in manpower nor in grain reserves. To retreat further would mean to destroy ourselves and, at the same time, destroy our Motherland.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        They invented a history of the Great Patriotic War that has nothing in common with real history.

                        You are writing about yourself.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In reality, Barbarossa turned out to be an adventure.

                        he didn't, but already born adventure. Why—as written above.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        as in the motivation of the fighters,

                        Yeah, they fought for the collective farms - 3 million prisoners in six months.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But you have it all upside down - like it was an adventure and only because of our stupidity the Germans reached Moscow

                        Wasn't it a gamble already in the development stage? It was, and it was destined to fail long before Moscow.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Come on, you

                        Let's go - first you learn to determine the simplest cause-and-effect relationships, and then judge history.
      3. 0
        17 June 2026 13: 43
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Waterloo meant absolutely nothing to Napoleon. Just as his defeat in Russia had been decided long before winter.


        Partially true. Even a possible victory at Waterloo (Blücher arrived late to the battle) would only have prolonged the agony of Napoleon's empire a little longer. But for his opponents, the victory was still significant.
        1. +3
          17 June 2026 13: 58
          Quote: Illanatol
          But for his opponents, the victory was still significant.

          Of course. I'm not downplaying its importance in any way—at the very least, it provided enormous moral satisfaction and prevented Napoleon from continuing a war that would have killed tens, if not hundreds, of thousands.
    2. 0
      17 June 2026 08: 32
      Quote: north 2
      His reputation as a military genius is overstated.

      So, an ordinary, run-of-the-mill military leader?
    3. -1
      17 June 2026 10: 11
      He truly was a tactical genius, but as it turned out, a lousy strategist and politician. His problem was that genius couldn't compensate for a lack of resources. He lost battles in which the enemy had a huge advantage, and in Russia, with his European mind, he couldn't understand the Russians' logic. For Hitler, the main battle wasn't Stalingrad, but the Kursk Bulge, and, of course, Operation Bagration.
      1. +1
        17 June 2026 10: 58
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        but as it turned out, he was a lousy strategist and politician.

        Why does everyone repeat this hackneyed myth? A lousy strategist and politician couldn't have reigned in Western Europe for 15 years. His wars with Austria and Prussia demonstrated precisely his strategic thinking.
      2. +1
        17 June 2026 11: 11
        "A lousy strategist and politician." He was a genius at both. Napoleon's problem was that he had to be both a politician and a military leader. As a military leader, he understood that after Smolensk he had to either stop or retreat (practically his entire senior general staff advised him to do so), but the politician in him prevailed. The politician needed the defeat of the Russian army and Russia's capitulation, so he marched on Moscow. Similarly, the politician prevailed in the autumn of 1813. His problem was that he was a "self-appointed" emperor and could not lose wars.
        1. -2
          17 June 2026 13: 29
          Napoleon was a brilliant tactician, brilliantly leading his army directly on the battlefield, and had no equal. When the odds were even, he always emerged victorious. He was also a talented statesman and reformer. But he was a poor strategist, and he didn't really try. Napoleon's chief of staff, Berthier, was responsible for strategy, a truly capable strategist. But Napoleon didn't always listen to him, which is what led to his failure. Berthier generally opposed the campaign in Russia, and when Napoleon finally forced him to develop a plan for the invasion of Russia, Napoleon rejected Berthier's plan, deeming it too complex. Berthier's work was used more than a century later by the Germans in developing "Barbarossa" (also an invasion with three army groups: "North," "Center," and "South").

          Napoleon was a poor strategist because a good strategist understands that success in war depends on more than just purely military factors. This was clearly demonstrated by the campaigns in Spain and Russia.

          Ultimately, Napoleon's France lost not because of any strategic mistakes, but simply because of the exhaustion of its forces and human resources. In his final battles, Napoleon was already chasing down "Marie-Louises," snot-nosed brats. As a result of the Napoleonic Wars, France fell into a demographic pit from which it hasn't recovered to this day. Before Napoleon, France was the most populous country in Europe, comparable in population to the Russian Empire. This will never happen again...
          1. 0
            17 June 2026 14: 52
            "Napoleon's chief of staff, Berthier, was responsible for strategy; he was a truly intelligent strategist." Berthier was solely responsible for the work of the staff; all strategic matters were decided solely by Napoleon. Berthier was an excellent chief of staff; he was never strict.
            "Napoleon's France lost not because of any strategic errors, but because of the simple exhaustion of forces and human resources" – quite the opposite. After winning the spring campaign of 1813, Napoleon could have reached an agreement with his allies, but the notorious human factor came into play. The politician in Napoleon defeated the commander; Napoleon refused to compromise, chose war, and lost everything. A typical strategic error of a politician.
            "As a result of the Napoleonic Wars, France fell into such a demographic hole from which it has not escaped even to this day." - as a result of the Napoleonic Wars, the population of France increased compared to 1791. Combat losses in those times are now greatly exaggerated.
            1. -1
              18 June 2026 08: 11
              Berthier was the strategist. And yes, the General Staff is usually responsible for strategy. Strategy is primarily about developing a plan for a military campaign as a whole, not the operational management of an army, which is precisely tactics. Strategy = plan, tactics = implementation.

              What "on the contrary"? The Napoleonic Empire's human resources were depleted, especially since a significant portion of its vassals not only left but also defected to Bonaparte's enemies. At the height of his power, Napoleon had an armed force totaling 1.2 million soldiers! And how many later, in that same year of 1813?

              Napoleon might well have reached an agreement... but the allies might have had a different opinion and would have been unwilling to make concessions. They had more resources, and tactical defeats didn't deprive them of the opportunity to continue fighting.

              Is it hard to prove with concrete figures that France had a larger population in 1815 than in 1791? Considering that France's adversaries also hardly had a smaller population in 1815 than in 1791. Russia, for example, and England... and let's not forget the colonies. England, for example, gained more colonies as a result of these wars, partly due to France's influence... laughing
              1. 0
                18 June 2026 09: 47
                "Strategy = plan, tactics = implementation." - Unfortunately, there is nothing more to say after that.
  3. +1
    17 June 2026 07: 14
    I'm not quite sure what 18th-century strategy the author is talking about? Sieges and fortresses—that's the War of the Spanish Succession—methodical and unhurried. In the mid-18th century, during the Seven Years' War, the Prussian army was already hunting down the main forces of its opponents, and quite bloody battles took place during that time. It's just that at that time, the opposing armies weren't large enough, and the war also proceeded slowly.
    Napoleon's strength lay in the fact that his opponents were unable to adopt a new principle of recruiting and replenishing the army for a long time, which is why Bonaparte sought to force a general battle immediately, because he knew that he would quickly replenish his losses, while his opponents would not.
  4. +3
    17 June 2026 08: 50
    As if they didn't fight like that before Napoleon—Suvorov, Rumyantsev: finding the enemy army and destroying it, and taking fortresses as needed. The article is complete nonsense. Attacking armies piecemeal while moving quickly? That's what Suvorov did, including in Italy against the French.
    Napoleon also captured fortresses and cities; he didn't introduce anything truly new, except for column attacks, though that had been done before. He was simply a genius, acting decisively and quickly, while his opponents were slow-moving, snot-nosed brats like the Austrians. When he encountered the Russians in 1812, his entire strategy fell apart. He had to take Smolensk and invade Moscow. Given the size and quality of his army, his speed plummeted, and that was it. It turned out his logistics were rubbish, his medical system even worse, his army designed for border battles.
    1. +2
      17 June 2026 11: 00
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      Suvorov, Rumyantsev: search for the enemy army and destroy it, and take fortresses as necessary.

      The scale is not the same. Suvorov couldn't even dream of leading armies like those commanded by Napoleon or Kutuzov.
  5. 0
    17 June 2026 09: 28
    "The army takes up a position between the divided forces of the enemy and attacks them one by one, transferring troops along the shortest routes." - In the autumn campaign of 1813, this principle did not work and Napoleon was defeated.
    1. +3
      17 June 2026 09: 45
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      This principle did not work during the autumn campaign of 1813.

      Rather, Napoleon failed to apply it. The truce was his mistake.
      1. 0
        17 June 2026 11: 20
        "wasn't able to use it" - rather, he wasn't allowed to use it.
        "The truce was his mistake"—hindsight is a terrible thing. In the spring, he had no cavalry, the army consisted almost entirely of new recruits, and the artillery was poor. Napoleon expected Prussia to fail to create a large, combat-ready army from scratch, and he hoped to keep Austria neutral. He had a real chance, but the politician prevailed, he refused to compromise or make concessions, and… he lost.
        1. +2
          17 June 2026 13: 03
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          "wasn't able to use it" - rather, he wasn't allowed to use it.

          Let's stop at "failed to apply in conditions of active counteraction"
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          "The truce is his mistake" - hindsight is a terrible thing.

          Of course. But I'm not trying to look smarter than Napoleon and I'm not saying that I would have been in his place. laughing
          1. +3
            17 June 2026 14: 09
            I agree with both theses.
  6. 0
    17 June 2026 17: 10
    Nevertheless, Napoleon took Venice with pleasure, for the first time in its centuries-long history. And he entered Moscow, expecting this to be victory.
    And in detail, Suvorov smashed a 100000-strong Turkish army to pieces at Rybnik. Suvorov also successfully defended the Kirnburn fortress from numerous Turkish paratroopers. Besides all this, Bonaparte was a master of artillery and loved to use it. Paul I and Arakcheev, however, were also involved in standardizing calibers.
    And Napoleon himself lost power in this way:
    1. +1
      17 June 2026 17: 17
      Napoleon himself lost power in this way: while he was busy chasing battles with foreign corps and armies, Russian Cossacks and Kalmyks entered Paris. And the capital recognized Napoleon as the illegitimate ruler of the country.
  7. 0
    17 June 2026 20: 10
    I wonder how theorists would evaluate the strategy in Ukraine?