Tanks with the Arena APS have been spotted in service, but is there reason for optimism?

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Tanks with the Arena APS have been spotted in service, but is there reason for optimism?

Recently, photographs have appeared on the Internet tank T-72B3M, based on the old "A-shka", with the active protection system (APS) "Arena-M", modified to destroy FPV-dronesThese photos, it must be said, are far from the first—vehicles with this APS have been spotted before—but the current footage is notable for its clear identification of the operators.

We're talking about the Center Group of Forces, which received a certain number of these tanks—perhaps as many as ten or more. The accompanying texts for these photographs state that these tanks are being used for military training, but there is some reason to believe that Arena-M-equipped tanks have already seen combat in the Northern Military District.



What can be said about this?

On the one hand, I suppose we can be happy. Frankly, we haven't had any active protection systems suitable for military use since the collapse of the USSR. And now, finally, the Arena has been perfected—it's now not only a regular fixture in commercials and exhibitions, but also a genuine drone fighter, which, albeit in limited production, has already been produced and is in full use by the military.


Tank T-72B3M (based on T-72A) with a modernized KAZ "Arena-M" GV "Center"

On the other hand, there's little reason for optimism. And this is worth discussing in detail, as the modernized Arena-M is still a representative of the old KAZ concept, which has been retrofitted with functionality it wasn't originally designed for.

Effective against drones, but not against all of them.


Although the Arena is still positioned today as a fresh and innovative active defense system, its development was the result of scientific research in the second half of the 20th century, and it wasn't adopted into service until the early 1990s. Therefore, the list of offensive weapons it was designed to counter was initially limited to classic anti-tank weapons. missiles, grenades and cumulative projectiles.

Later, of course, a modification called "Arena-M" was developed, which added the ability to counter missiles aimed at the tank's upper hemisphere. However, the overall architecture of the system remained the same. It reacts and responds only to objects with a dangerous trajectory, that is, to munitions flying directly at the tank (or dangerously close to it from the roof).

Without changing these principles, domestic designers have upgraded the Arena-M, which we see in recent photos, to combat FPV drones. This upgrade involves the introduction of a "close-in detection" mode, where the system periodically switches to search mode. drones by their propellers, which create a Doppler effect due to rotation (more about this here: How the Arena KAZ attempted to teach kamikaze drones to detect).


Tank T-72B3M (based on T-72A) with a modernized KAZ "Arena-M" GV "Center"

There seems to be no doubt about the effectiveness of the detection method—it's truly effective, considering drones can hover in the air. However, they are only intercepted if they're flying directly at the tank. The vehicle is not protected from munitions dropped by a drone hovering several meters above it—neither the Arena-M's radars, nor its computing system, nor the counter-munitions it uses to destroy dangerous objects as they approach are designed for this purpose.

That's why, despite the presence of the Arena-M on board, the tanks featured in the photographs are equipped with standard factory "grills" covering the turret roof. These, of course, also serve as convenient shelves for storing all kinds of equipment, such as EW, but first of all they cover the “hole” in the upper hemisphere of the tank.

There is not enough ammunition


The counter-munitions fired by the modified Arena-M, which destroy a tank attack with a directed fragmentation stream, are also a major problem. There are simply not enough of them, even catastrophically so, in a single system's ammunition loadout.

The problem is that there are only three counter-munitions per defended sector of space. Previously, this was sufficient. After all, the Arena's logic was built around intercepting a relatively limited number of the most dangerous incoming targets—anti-tank missiles, grenades, and other munitions aimed at the vehicle along a specific trajectory.

Situations in which several ATGMs or grenades hit a tank in the same sector in quick succession are certainly possible, but they're not the norm. Therefore, in the old APS concept, such ammunition seemed like a perfectly reasonable compromise between weight, size, and effectiveness.

But in the realities of today's war, where a single aircraft can be subject to nearly a dozen FPV drone incursions, this reserve will no longer be sufficient. Even if some drones are destroyed, while others miss or are blown up by external structures, an intense air strike will quickly consume the entire system's lifespan. And then comes the unfortunate, yet entirely logical, outcome: the Arena-M can survive the first wave of attack, and perhaps a second, but with the massive use of drones, its ammunition supply will be exhausted too quickly.


There's another nuance that's usually only considered afterthought. The Arena-M itself completely precludes the installation of full-fledged "grills," which today are often installed not only above the turret roof but also extending out to the sides to more or less cover the tank from all directions. An active protection system (APS) requires clear fields of view for radar detection and the proper operation of counter-munitions, meaning that excessively extensive overhead structures around the turret simply become an impediment.

This creates a dual picture. The presence of the Arena-M on a tank is certainly a plus, as it provides protection not only from drones but also from heavy anti-tank missiles, against which grills alone are far from a panacea. While grills and canopies can disrupt a drone's attack, trigger a premature detonation, or prevent it from reaching a vulnerable point altogether, this is often insufficient against powerful ATGMs with enormous armor penetration: even if the warhead detonates at a distance from the armor, its effectiveness is not reduced to zero.

However, the downside is also obvious. The Arena-M itself will only be effective against drones for a limited period of time, until it exhausts its small ammunition supply, after which the tank, deprived of a full-fledged all-round "grill," could find itself in an even more vulnerable position.

Conclusions


In short, the most important thing to say is that the very availability of the Arena-M, upgraded for counter-drone capabilities, even in a small series, is certainly a good thing. Regardless of how you look at it, we're talking about a real system, fully operational, not mockups, exhibition models, or endless promises. This alone seems like a positive development, especially given how long the domestic APS project has essentially been stagnant.

But, frankly, there's no point in being overly optimistic about this. The limitations of the concept itself are too obvious, and they quickly become more prominent in the context of modern warfare.

And it must be said that the Arena-M is far from alone in this regard. The issue of limited ammunition is characteristic not only of it, but also of much more hyped foreign systems. The Israeli Trophy, often touted as the benchmark for modern active defense, would essentially face the same difficulties if adapted for the mass interception of drones.

Therefore, the obvious conclusion is that the new conditions require not just another upgrade of old solutions, but a fundamentally different approach to the active protection of armored vehicles. One that would be capable of equally confidently destroying classic anti-tank munitions, FPV drones, and drones designed to drop munitions, and doing so not in a "repel the first attack and that's it" mode, but with a truly capacious ammunition supply.

What exactly this path will be, who knows, but it is quite possible that in the future, as part of such systems, we will see small-caliber automatic cannons capable of firing multiple times at air targets at close range.
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  1. +6
    8 June 2026 04: 39
    I hope it goes into mass production, and not just another one-off prototype for a parade while the T-62 is being made in Chita.
    1. +5
      8 June 2026 15: 19
      I hope that we will find out how effective this KAZ is in practice, and not from theoretical speculations in the media.
      It seems that with modern technologies, our industry is capable of producing an anti-drone active defense system.
      The guys at the SVO are building a manually operated APS. Its drawback is the relatively slow human reaction time. What if the operator were replaced with machine vision, which accurately detects the drone and distinguishes it from other flying objects, such as birds, clods of soil, and so on, and promptly triggers the correct shotgun shell?
      Yes, this system will be useless against ATGMs and RPGs, but they're not the main problem right now. A combination that can hit both, operating in different modes, is also possible.
      And regarding the T-62M, they're not produced at Atamanovka; they're being modernized. Reviews of these simple and reliable vehicles are quite good. And in today's combat environments, the "king of the grill" and the heavy ERA armor largely equalize the combat performance of modern MBTs and modernized veterans.
      An anti-drone active protection system is essential for any armored fighting vehicle.
    2. 2al
      +1
      8 June 2026 17: 18
      In the SVO, repair battalions are using bolts to load mortars from the "Tucha," leaving open areas for using the weapon in barbecues. The result is combined protection with an acceptable weight.
  2. +3
    8 June 2026 04: 47
    Place additional containers on the grill structure, which will help you survive the first 2-4 raids with the help of the APS and not be left without pants afterwards.
    1. +3
      8 June 2026 04: 54
      Place additional containers on the grill structure, which will help you survive the first 2-4 raids with the help of the APS and not be left without pants afterwards.
      That's the first thing that comes to mind. If the grill is interfering with the APS, move the system's components to the grill itself. Perhaps leave the main components on the armor and add new ones...
      1. -4
        8 June 2026 08: 42
        Most likely, the grill's structure can't withstand the detonation of special ammunition; that requires rigidity. And a structure with the necessary rigidity would be excessively heavy! The Arena itself weighs tons! That's why it's mounted on armor.
        Of course, it is possible to defend sectors by rotating the tower and using charges intended for another sector.
        But in general, against the FPV, the most promising defense seems to be a laser; the cost of a shot is pennies, in theory you need 3 emitters on the tower to close the perimeter, and the Arena as the penultimate line of defense and against missiles.
        I think they will never give up on a barbecue on the roof; it is the cheapest and most effective protection from above.
        1. +3
          8 June 2026 09: 05
          Most likely, the grill's design cannot withstand the detonation of special ammunition; this requires rigidity.
          It is quite possible that I have not studied this issue.
          But in general, against the FPV, the most promising defense seems to be a laser; the cost of a shot is pennies, in theory you need 3 emitters on the tower to close the perimeter, and the Arena as the penultimate line of defense and against missiles.
          A laser is great, but firing a cheap shot requires a significant amount of electricity, which a tank's generator simply isn't designed to generate. A combat laser isn't like a laser pointer, which only requires a single AA battery. It's also impossible to fit an additional power unit into a production tank; it's structurally impossible. And then there's the added weight. hi
          1. -2
            8 June 2026 10: 05
            The T72 and T90 are both previous-generation tanks, so it's difficult to cram anything new into them. The new tanks will have different powertrains, and lasers should be added to them according to development logic. These lasers don't need to fire far, not yet. feel
            1. +3
              8 June 2026 12: 04
              The new tanks will have different energy systems and lasers should appear there according to the development logic. These lasers don't need to shoot far, not yet.
              The Armata already exists. It's been deemed too expensive. And yes, it can't even be equipped with lasers anymore. Developing a completely new vehicle is, of course, necessary. But that's a very long process. For now, we'll be fighting with T-80s, T-90s, and T-72s... smile
              1. +1
                8 June 2026 15: 29
                Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
                The new tanks will have different energy systems and lasers should appear there according to the development logic. These lasers don't need to shoot far, not yet.
                The Armata already exists. It's been deemed too expensive. And yes, it can't even be equipped with lasers anymore. Developing a completely new vehicle is, of course, necessary. But that's a very long process. For now, we'll be fighting with T-80s, T-90s, and T-72s... smile

                For these machines and many others, AI-controlled interceptor drones would be optimal. I think they'll be available soon. Copters are already being shot down, though currently in manual mode, soon to be automated. To destroy FPVs, kinetic weapons (simply ramming) or a net on the rotors are tedious.
              2. 0
                8 June 2026 15: 37
                Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
                The Armata already exists. It's been deemed too expensive. And yes, you can't fit lasers in it anymore.


                The Armata is also a tank of the past today! Much of it needs to be redesigned, as the battlefield has already changed and is still undergoing transformation, and the Armata is not adapted to these changes! So I think it would be right to design a new project, taking the successful and relevant solutions from the Armata.
                1. -1
                  8 June 2026 16: 18
                  Truly successful solutions were made a little earlier than the Armata was born. On the T-34-85. smile
            2. 0
              8 June 2026 23: 51
              "These lasers don't need to shoot far," You must have been skipping physics classes?
          2. 0
            8 June 2026 11: 32
            A combat laser is not a laser pointer, which only requires one AA battery.


            I'm no expert on blasters, but as far as I understand, a laser pointer is sufficient. They (FPVs) all have optical guidance, right? Simply to blind.

            *By the way, didn't the T-90 have some kind of infrared searchlights on the front? Couldn't they be used to cover the entire tank, or would they be too focused?


            In general, when I fantasize about this, I imagine a "small turret" above the main one, perhaps even telescopic, able to be raised and lowered. It would carry optics, detectors, electronic warfare, and all sorts of small-caliber weapons with sophisticated control mechanisms, and/or lasers. To make the image more vivid, imagine a robotic body with various manipulators, perched on a tank, both seeing farther and fending off "mosquitoes." If such a mount were also modular (as is now the trend), it could be mounted on anything.
            1. +1
              8 June 2026 11: 47
              Have you ever tried to blind a couple of drones with a laser pointer that are trying to kill you?
              1. +1
                8 June 2026 16: 15
                No, I haven't tried it. I'm just speculating. We're talking about automated systems that have at their disposal not just one laser, but at least 49. I think you could mount a lot of laser pointers on a tank.
            2. +2
              8 June 2026 12: 12
              I'm not an expert on "blasters", but as far as I understand, a laser pointer is quite sufficient.
              I'm no expert either. But first, to blind someone, you need to find the right optics. You need to shine a light that truly blinds them completely, causing the drone to veer off course. And that takes time. And it won't last. I think you just have to shoot them down; blinding them is more difficult.
              *By the way, didn't the T-90 have some kind of infrared searchlights on the front? Couldn't they be used to cover the entire tank, or would they be too focused?
              These are infrared searchlights, and they only protect against a specific type of anti-tank guided missile. They're not a panacea. Especially since they protect against IR guidance, but not against others. And there are too many drones out there now, with a variety of systems. One simply flies over the tank and drops a grenade. It has no sensors; it simply explodes wherever it's dropped.
              In general, when I fantasize about this, I imagine a kind of "small turret" above the main one, perhaps even telescopic, able to be raised and lowered. It would carry optics, detectors, electronic warfare, and all sorts of small-caliber weapons with sophisticated control mechanisms, and/or lasers.

              To do this, we'll simply need to design a new tank. And don't forget that additional modules, especially a turret, will increase the tank's weight. And that means a new chassis, a new engine...
              1. 0
                8 June 2026 16: 45
                And that's time. And it won't be. I think we just need to knock it down; molding it is more difficult.


                Well, firstly, drones are known for their slow speed, which is their advantage and, as is usually the case, their disadvantage. If the drone operator is in a hurry, they'll hit the target poorly. Secondly, we assume that the automated systems will be operating, with reaction times faster than humans. Thirdly, deploying a small laser, all other things being equal, is always faster by definition than any weapon. Fourthly, I also wrote about small-bore weapons. For example, arming the launcher with a dozen shotguns.

                These are infrared searchlights, and they only worked against a specific type of anti-tank guided missile. They're not a panacea.


                An IR illuminator can also illuminate a regular video camera. Granted, there are certain conditions for this to work, but still.

                He simply flies over the tank and drops a grenade.


                An additional "turret" will also protect against grenade attacks. This is, by definition, a rather ineffective method of destruction, and is limited to rare cases and specific conditions.

                To do this, you just need to design a new tank.


                No, it's enough to create such a module so it can be installed on existing bases. And another point: it's not at all necessary to make an additional modification to a tank with a turret. If we create a highly effective anti-UAV module that could be mounted on the turret ring, it would be easier to use the ancient principle of separating duties. One vehicle is a strike vehicle, followed and covered by an air defense vehicle.
                That's probably how it will be. This problem has been known since the time of King Solomon. It's most evident in the navy: don't try to cram the unsqueezable—make a guided missile cruiser and an air defense cruiser on the same platform and group them together. Basically, the same thing happened in the Soviet Army, where mobile air defense systems were created to protect tank columns.
                So, nothing new.
                1. 0
                  8 June 2026 18: 28
                  Well, first of all, drones are distinguished by their slow speed.
                  Not all of them. The jet ones will be faster.
                  Secondly, we assume that the automation will work, the reaction speed of which is higher than that of a human.
                  Automation against automation... No automation can repel a drone attack if there are several times more drones than defense points.
                  Third, deploying a small laser, all other things being equal, is always faster by definition than any other weapon. Fourth, I also wrote about small-bore weapons. For example, arming a launcher with a dozen shotguns.

                  Lasers are good. Probably. Can you name me even one system adopted by the Ministry of Defense? One that can destroy drones en masse? I can't recall any. Yes, there are hints about the use of prototypes. Yes, they are being tested. Yes, there are no results in open sources. So, what exactly are you planning to install on tanks as anti-UAV defense? And en masse? Prototypes? Shotguns are also a good idea. But is there an AI system that will work with shotguns as intended? I haven't heard of one.
                  An IR illuminator can also illuminate a regular video camera. Granted, there are certain conditions for this to work, but still.
                  It won't work due to "a number of conditions." Partial tank protection isn't needed; it already exists. What's needed is full protection that works in all conditions, and with any visibility of the target.
                  An additional "turret" will also protect against grenade attacks. This is, by definition, a rather ineffective method of destruction, and is limited to rare cases and specific conditions.
                  An extra turret means extra weight. Extra strain on the chassis. Will the chassis handle that? What about the railroad? What about the bridges? I won't even mention the internal combustion engine, which is a descendant of the B2. It'll be strained, but it'll hold up.
                  Next. How will the additional turret change conditions for the crew? A turret above a turret, I presume? Then how will the crew evacuate through the turret hatches? How can we mitigate the fact that the additional turret will block the tank commander's view through the observation devices? It will undoubtedly force a redesign of the main turret layout. And it's not guaranteed to be for the better. Another downside is that the turret becomes larger. Therefore, more visible. This means the height will impact maneuvering under utility lines and pipelines.
                  No, it is enough to create such a module so that it can be installed on old databases.
                  Unfortunately, it's not enough. The dimensions, the weight, the placement of the fighting compartment ventilators... A lot would have to be redone. It would be easier to create a new vehicle.
                  1. +1
                    8 June 2026 19: 44
                    The jet ones will be faster.


                    I haven't heard of reactive FPVs.

                    Automation versus automation...


                    FPV is run by people.

                    No automation can repel a drone attack if there are several times more drones than defense points.


                    Well, if you stand still, then yes. But combat requires dynamics and mission performanceOf course, during its execution—an assault/attack/breakthrough (which is its primary purpose)—tanks suffer losses, but this doesn't happen instantly, and if they suppress the anti-tank guns and take up positions, the mission is accomplished.

                    Can you name me at least one system adopted by the Ministry of Defense?


                    Firstly, we discuss it, if anything. Secondly, I'm not fixated on lasers.

                    But is there an AI system that will handle shotguns the way they're supposed to?


                    AI systems don't exist at all. AI isn't needed to aim a shotgun, just as it isn't needed for the Arena anti-aircraft missile system or for air defense missiles, the first of which flew "on tubes" 70 years ago.

                    Full protection is boring


                    Undoubtedly boring. Absolute protection will never exist, just like a perpetual motion machine.

                    Additional tower - additional weight


                    Yes. And modernizing existing vehicles is a challenge. But anything is possible, especially with advanced technology. As for today, that's why I wrote about the development of the module and the "air defense tank."

                    Not enough, unfortunately.


                    Insufficient or impossible? Those are two very different concepts. Insufficient for protection, or technically impossible? It's like, "There's an elderberry in the garden, and an uncle in Kyiv."

                    Dimensions, weight, location of fighting compartment fans...


                    The dimensions and weight of the air defense turret will be 100% smaller than that of a tank turret with a gun. And what's with the fans??!! They make all sorts of things on tank chassis: the "Terminator," for example... oh, sorry, the "Spiridon." laughing, or "Buratino"/"Solntsepёk" and they don't complain about the fans.

                    It's easier to create a new machine.


                    So what's the problem? The process of creating new designs never stops.
              2. 0
                9 June 2026 00: 31
                By the way, I remember how schoolchildren used to blind people with modern laser pointers (with a powerful green beam, not like the red ones of 20-30 years ago) from balconies; the beam instantly hit your eyes from a distance of 300 meters (or even more). And I've even heard stories about airplanes being blinded by hooligans.
                So the idea is still interesting, perhaps.

                By the way, at least it's easy for military personnel or engineers to conduct such experiments. It's perfectly simple to try taking a couple of these pointers and replicating these situations with drones at a testing ground.

                P.S. Can you put something on a tank that's 5 times stronger than what the kids from the junk store have?

                But of course, ideally, it would be better to knock it down.
                1. +1
                  9 June 2026 02: 05
                  By the way, at least it's easy for military personnel or engineers to conduct such experiments. It's perfectly simple to try taking a couple of these pointers and replicating these situations with drones at a testing ground.
                  Well, we can't do anything here; most likely, the people who can conduct such tests don't read VO. smile
                  You can put something on a tank that's 5 times stronger than what the kids from the junk store have.
                  Yes, it's possible. But again, the question comes down to the power supply for the additional unit. If there's a reserve, it can be installed. If not, it can't. hi
            3. +1
              8 June 2026 13: 08
              Blinding is not an option. Light-guided control systems will appear very soon.
              1. 0
                8 June 2026 16: 55
                Light-guided control systems will appear very quickly.


                Here we begin to spiral down a technological spiral. The transition to "machine vision" will automatically mean that A) the system will become more expensive, meaning it will lose its main advantage—low cost and mass production; B) machine vision will be deceived by electronic warfare systems. The light source could be ejectable pyrotechnic cartridges, for example.
                1. 0
                  8 June 2026 17: 07
                  Here we begin to move along a technological spiral. The transition to "machine vision"

                  It's not a switch to machine vision, but rather targeting a light source like a beacon—a very simple and inexpensive device. No electronic warfare system will help with this. It's like placing a marker on a target for precision.
                  1. 0
                    8 June 2026 17: 31
                    How do you aim at a light source without "eyes"?
                    1. 0
                      8 June 2026 17: 36
                      A basic, cheap photo sensor. The more you blind it, the more reliable the targeting.
                      1. 0
                        8 June 2026 18: 15
                        Well, that is, machine vision?
                      2. 0
                        8 June 2026 22: 57
                        Of course not. A primitive photosensor in a tube.
                      3. 0
                        9 June 2026 13: 39
                        If "vision" isn't human, then it's machine-like. Primitive isn't primitive; it's just details.
                        How will your primitive photocell find the light source? A laser has a highly focused beam. A squib, however, is also a cheap defense mechanism and will easily find it. And that's where it will land. A primitive guidance system will be detected on the second day.
                      4. 0
                        9 June 2026 14: 00
                        If the vision is not human, then it is "machine".

                        No. We're talking about a regular photocell that measures the intensity of light; no one calls it "machine vision."
                        It's all elementary. When blinded, control switches to a simple photosensor located in a small tube, pointing in the same direction as the main system. When the course deviates, the tube's direction changes, the sensor's illumination level decreases, the photosensor's output signal begins to diminish, and the system adjusts the course to maintain the maximum output signal from the sensor, meaning a constant, precise direction toward the light source. In the ACS, this is called "extreme control." It's been around since time immemorial.
                        hi
                      5. 0
                        9 June 2026 14: 33
                        Call it a photocell homing system if you prefer, it doesn't change the essence; in the sandbox, you can argue about concepts until you're hoarse, losing the point.
                        And a photocell can be illuminated with a laser just as easily as a camera, if that's what it takes.
                      6. 0
                        9 June 2026 14: 56
                        The camera can be illuminated, but the more light is given to the photocell, the more accurately it will focus on the radiation source.
                      7. 0
                        9 June 2026 15: 03
                        No, if you expose it to too much light, it will burn out. And a laser is the easiest way to do that.
                      8. 0
                        9 June 2026 15: 09
                        Installing an automatic light filter couldn't be easier. Just like on a welding mask. You weren't planning on burning, but blinding.
                      9. 0
                        9 June 2026 16: 24
                        Will it really work properly with a light filter? How does the light filter in the welding mask react to bright light? Will it polarize? And how will the photocell work then?
                        That's what I'm talking about, blinding. It's just that a sufficiently strong light source (like a laser with a wavelength somewhere above 400 nm) would likely damage the photocell, if I remember anything from school. But I'm not sure.
                2. 0
                  10 June 2026 03: 02
                  The transition to machine vision is already underway precisely because it
                  A) cheaper
                  B) easier to scale
                  B) more efficient
                  Than a human operator. A Javelin missile with primitive "machine vision" systems cost tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars; now, everything you need in any smartphone costs 3 kopecks.
                  1. 0
                    10 June 2026 12: 08
                    In my opinion, Javelins haven't become any cheaper. laughing Another thing is that no one needed them anymore.
                    1. 0
                      11 June 2026 02: 45
                      They really haven't become more expensive, because they use specialized equipment, manufactured specifically for them, with military acceptance for operation from -60 to +60 and other conditions for vibration resistance.
                      And now the transition is underway to consumer household chips produced in tens of millions of pieces
          3. 0
            9 June 2026 09: 33
            Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
            A combat laser is not a laser pointer, which only requires one AA battery.
            Maybe it's enough not to burn, but just to "blind." There are plenty of precedents with laser pointers.
            High-power laser pointers (500 to 1000 milliwatts) can blind an aircraft pilot, preventing them from successfully completing a maneuver. Using powerful laser devices can cause serious retinal damage. In many countries, such attempts are criminally punishable, with heavy fines.

            It's possible to blind a drone's optics with laser beams, which would make it difficult for the operator to aim or disorient the homing system. Whether this has been tried or not is a question.
            1. 0
              9 June 2026 13: 23
              Well, by the way, an article just appeared. It says India is testing an anti-UAV laser on a T-90 tank they're assembling. And the problem is clearly stated: the generator isn't producing enough power; it's not designed for laser power. hi
              1. 0
                9 June 2026 14: 41
                Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
                The generator doesn't produce enough energy and it's not designed for lasers.
                Not enough for burning and destruction. Laser pointers are also suitable for blinding. For example, the laser gloves in the photo suggest activating the beams around a tank. The question is how effective it will be if...
                1. +1
                  9 June 2026 16: 14
                  The whole question is how effective it will be if...
                  In any case, we will not be able to influence the engineers’ decisions in any way, and we won’t be able to suggest an idea to them either.
                  But we can only talk about its effectiveness after installing the device on a vehicle and testing it at a testing ground. hi
        2. +2
          8 June 2026 11: 37
          Quote: Eroma
          The Arena itself weighs tons!
          Complex weight: 1100-1300 kg
        3. 0
          16 July 2026 02: 14
          You should at least look at the diagram... The special munition isn't a detonated explosive reactive armor block, but a fired projectile, also equipped with a correction motor for a slight rotation to the optimal angle. It doesn't require a rigid structure for firing. The brazier is needed to protect the active protection system components from being dropped from above, and also covers the detection and engagement blind zone. The detection blind zone is 3 degrees from the vertical, meaning a 6-degree crater. The engagement blind zone isn't clear from the diagram.
          In my opinion, the obvious direction for modernization is a linear expansion of the protective ammunition units. Alternatively, it might be worth removing the correction motor from the ammunition (to reduce its cost), and instead installing higher-capacity, multi-directional guide units.
          1. 0
            16 July 2026 19: 23
            Regarding the grill mounting, there's a reasoned position below your post. Putting KAZ submunitions on the grill is not acceptable.
      2. +1
        8 June 2026 11: 48
        Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
        If the grill interferes with the KAZ, move the elements of the complex to the grill itself.
        Submunition containers must be securely mounted, at predetermined angles, since the submunition itself has no locators, and the system's computer determines its destination and detonation time. If the container is secured to a "grill," it won't hit anything at all—it's like firing a mortar from the back of a car driving on a dirt road.
        In my opinion, shooting drones with an APS is like shooting sparrows with a cannon. A dedicated anti-drone system is needed, with inexpensive consumables (and plenty of them).
        1. 0
          8 June 2026 12: 14
          A separate anti-drone system is needed, with inexpensive consumables (and lots of them).
          Of course it's needed. Unfortunately, it was needed yesterday, but it's not here...
        2. 0
          8 June 2026 15: 48
          Quote: Bad_gr
          In my opinion, shooting drones with an APS is like shooting sparrows with a cannon. We need a dedicated anti-drone system with inexpensive consumables (and plenty of them).


          So far, two viable options seem to be in play: lasers and interceptor drones. It's unclear which approach will be more effective, though perhaps they will complement each other. Interceptor drones seem more versatile (they can be used as FPV grenades, for example), while lasers may be cheaper, though who knows.

          The APS can actually be a multifunctional defense system, both against missiles and drones (if one manages to reach the tank, it doesn't matter what it's used for, the main thing is to shoot it down, the tank is still more expensive) and as anti-personnel ammunition in hand-to-hand combat with infantry (in the case when a fighter, like Hezbollah, attaches explosives to your turret). wassat ).
          The radars should be like those on the Armata, see drones, guide missiles to aircraft, track movements in the air, and function like artillery reconnaissance radars, and, like the F35, also be a powerful source of electronic warfare.
          1. 0
            8 June 2026 17: 38
            Quote: Eroma
            So far, there are two viable options: lasers and interceptor drones...
            We have a "Antisniper" system in production. It constantly scans the surrounding area with a laser beam. If the beam is reflected by the optics, a machine gun is automatically aimed at that location. All drones have optics, and if these optics are pointed toward a tank, the "Antisniper" system will detect them and aim the weapon. Besides drones, it can also preempt shots from RPGs, grenade launchers, and other weapons—all of them have sights with lenses.
            I just haven’t heard of it being used at the front, even though it’s been in production for 8-10 years.
            1. 0
              8 June 2026 19: 30
              Perhaps because the laser beam itself is a revealing element, making the anti-sniper a good target? That's an option.
              I don't think it's possible to detect a drone using reflections from its optics. It's constantly moving, and the optics might not reflect light at certain positions. The option described in the article—radar and the reflected signal from the propellers—would be more effective. what
  3. +4
    8 June 2026 04: 59
    Optimism will only grow when the APS becomes the standard for tanks and other vehicles. We tend to build one and a half vehicles just for show. Factors like ammunition capacity and other performance characteristics are secondary in the context of the Russian military-industrial complex.
  4. 0
    8 June 2026 05: 09
    What if we attached an AI to a standard tank machine gun, trained to visually detect FPV drones? Arm it with pellet rounds, or some kind of reticle? It would have plenty of ammo, and it could automatically shoot down incoming drones like a turret. Just an idea. Why not?
    1. 0
      10 June 2026 03: 05
      Various armies are already implementing this idea, except ours. We don't produce chips of the required quality. We're still at the 2005 level—remember, those chips had enough performance to process so much information?
      Nowadays, budget smartphones have chips that are much more productive than our most advanced ones.
  5. -2
    8 June 2026 07: 30
    This APS is already obsolete—the upper hemisphere now needs to be protected. Reconfigure the radars, and significantly increase the complement of interceptor munitions.
    1. +1
      8 June 2026 08: 37
      I've written many times that ordinary drones can be shot down using an industrial shot blasting machine used to remove scale from metal. Compressed air accelerates cast iron pellets to 40-50 m/s. Increasing the air pressure can bring the speed closer to 100 m/s. The machine has a simple design: a nozzle, compressor, receiver tank, and pellet hopper. A tank can carry hundreds of kilograms of pellets. If a 100 kg tank contains about 300,000 pellets with a diameter of about 4 mm and a pellet consumption of 1-1.5 kg per second, this is enough to shoot down dozens of drones at a safe distance from the tank.
      1. +5
        8 June 2026 08: 45
        "We're recruiting shot blasting machine operators for service in our rear units. This isn't an assault."
      2. 0
        8 June 2026 11: 23
        Are you sure that a 4mm ball at a speed of less than 100ms can damage a drone?
        1. +1
          8 June 2026 12: 58
          Quote: ssergey1978
          Are you sure that a 4mm ball at a speed of less than 100ms can damage a drone?

          The blade will fly apart even from a 4mm ball.
      3. -1
        16 July 2026 02: 32
        Yes, it really is a very simple and, most importantly, rational solution :)) A nozzle (though it's rotating, meaning it's got a frame rotating in two planes and an electric motor, plus all the junk), then a compressor, a receiver (at least 100 liters), 2 kg of pellets, positioned so they flow by gravity into a hose, and, of course, a radar to detect incoming drones. All these elements won't interfere with each other, of course, and this whole design certainly won't turn the tank into something ridiculous, hung with massive junk and entangled in pneumatic hoses vulnerable to any puncture. Even remotely detonating a single FPV with a charge of nuts would render this fragile system non-functional, and the tank defenseless. Then another speaker in this same chat will ask: how protected is this system from elementary small arms fire? And can it shoot down ATGMs and RPGs? And everyone will shake their heads sadly, complain about the embezzlement of money, etc.
        A tank's defense system must be (1) versatile, (2) compact, and (3) armor-protected. The Arena, while having some shortcomings, meets this requirement. And most importantly, it already exists. It just needs to be refined and scaled up.
    2. +1
      8 June 2026 15: 48
      There was a video of Kaz Arena hitting a missile flying into the upper hemisphere.
  6. 0
    8 June 2026 09: 21
    A KAZ is needed for a main battle tank. It's vital.
  7. +2
    8 June 2026 10: 46
    It will probably take another 10 years to refine the APS for aiming the machine gun/anti-aircraft shotgun.
  8. +2
    8 June 2026 10: 48
    With the current drone saturation, no Arena can save us. If not the fifth, then the tenth will get there.
    1. +1
      8 June 2026 14: 34
      A comprehensive approach is needed. For example:
      1. Fighter drones with forks (they destroy the blades of enemy drones with a fork) on the outer radius.
      2. Multi-barrel machine guns with guidance based on optical-electronic systems at medium range (50...500 meters).
      3. APS as the last line of defense, including against ATGM missiles.
      1. 0
        8 June 2026 15: 46
        A comprehensive approach—hovering reconnaissance drones that detect enemy drones and guide their own. That is, there should be an army of various branches of the armed forces, not just something to hang on a tank so the soldier can do everything himself, without the general having to rack his brains.
    2. +1
      8 June 2026 15: 49
      As the Merkavas showed with the trophy in Lebanon, it won't save
  9. -2
    8 June 2026 11: 39
    I think we need to change our vehicle movement tactics. Two or three vehicles with different defenses, covering each other, receiving information from anti-aircraft guns, plus auxiliary electronic warfare drones. The question is how to protect ourselves from American and European deployments. We also need to think about that, since we've already come up with the idea of ​​a pipeline.
  10. 0
    8 June 2026 13: 05
    What if we use Tucha smoke grenade launchers as anti-drone weapons? Place several of them around the perimeter per sector, equipped with pellets or a net. Or cover the perimeter with smoothbore guns and Intercept rounds. Arena will manage all of this. If only it could also identify targets by size, so that the main weapons could be used against ATGMs, and light weapons against FPVs.
  11. 0
    8 June 2026 13: 13
    Isn't it really possible to improve the tank's resistance to FPV warheads? It's essentially an RPG. Engineers and drone operators should comb through the entire tank, looking for weak spots and ways to cover them. And don't forget about the chassis, so the track can't be immediately destroyed by a drone. Engine compartment, rear, roof, turret ring, fenders.
  12. -1
    8 June 2026 13: 45
    Without changing these principles, domestic designers modernized the Arena-M, which we see in recent photos, to combat FPV drones.

    What designers???
    The tank crews did this themselves, using smoke grenade launchers and filling them with bolts and nuts.

    T-90M and T-72B3 tank crews have created a homemade new anti-drone active protection system.

    https://www1.ru/news/2026/05/30/tankisty-t-90m-i-t-72b3-sozdali-samodelnyi-novyi-kaz-protiv-dronov.html?ysclid=mq5333cpl9159128042
  13. -1
    8 June 2026 14: 51
    If we've learned to detect incoming drones more or less, then we don't need to upgrade the Arena's interceptors; instead, we need to teach it to provide targeting information. The entire space behind the turret should be lined with two layers of interceptor drones—let them intercept the drones. Engine compartment ventilation will require some work, but I think it's solvable.
  14. +2
    8 June 2026 15: 37
    The Arena's munition is clearly overkill against drones. Perhaps it would make sense to develop a less powerful munition specifically for drone use, one that could be mounted on barbecue grills.
  15. 0
    8 June 2026 20: 24
    What exactly this path will be, who knows, but...

    As the joke goes, we need to become hedgehogs.
  16. -4
    8 June 2026 21: 33
    This Arena-M KAZ turned out to be stillborn... When it was invented, it should have been installed as standard on combat vehicles, and not spent money on villas in Greece and Cyprus... So many people have died in all the conflicts of recent years... after all, at that time, there was very serious assistance for the crews.
    Currently, it's four years behind schedule and has lost its effectiveness. Experience will tell, but a completely different concept is truly needed.
    I'd try firing metal nets at the drones instead of shrapnel ammunition. You could lay down about fifty of these nets; they're neither heavy nor expensive, but they'll easily entangle any drone and won't harm dismounted soldiers nearby.
    Something needs to be done in this direction.
    1. 0
      17 July 2026 00: 55
      Firing a net also requires some kind of container—a cartridge case with powder, wad, and net inside. Firing such a cartridge also requires a single-barrel guide, meaning there's absolutely no advantage over the Arena. However, the drawback is obvious: aiming with a net requires much more precision, as the net is inferior to the fragmentation field in terms of area of ​​effect, and the net's firing speed must be at least as fast as the Arena shell, which is difficult to imagine since the Arena shell is metal, and the net must somehow deploy. Your idea, I apologize, seems ill-conceived and weak.
  17. 0
    10 June 2026 22: 13
    Quote: ssergey1978
    Are you sure that a 4mm ball at a speed of less than 100ms can damage a drone?

    A typical drone is a lightweight plastic body and 4 propellers with 8 blades. If, say, one pellet slightly bends one of the blades, the symmetry of the lifting forces will be disrupted and the drone will inevitably fall, and there will be dozens of hits.