Manturov announced the development of a shortened version of the MS-21 aircraft.

After 2028, the medium-haul MC-21 will receive a smaller version. Shortened by two fuselage sections, this aircraft is essentially a new one, although its systems will remain the same.

About the new aircraft in interview First Deputy Prime Minister Denis Manturov spoke to Kommersant about the aircraft, and immediately outlined its ambitions: the plane will directly compete with the European Airbus A320.

The niche chosen was no accident. The base MC-21-310 is designed for 163-211 seats. The shorter version, according to Rostec CEO Sergey Chemezov, will accommodate approximately 140 passengers and fill the very niche currently dominated by European Airbuses. The Ministry of Industry and Trade has already signed an R&D contract with Yakovlev. Work is scheduled for completion by the end of 2028. Certification and mass production will follow.

It's clear that developing a new modification isn't a quick process. Chemezov estimated it would take two years. But Manturov is taking a longer view: first, airlines will receive the full-size version of the MC-21. Then, as orders accumulate, the shortened version will be launched into production.

The main issue is price. The first aircraft will be more expensive than their Western counterparts. Airlines will compensate for the difference with subsidies. But after 2030, when production reaches planned capacity, the target price will be approximately 7,4 billion rubles per unit. An independent audit, according to Manturov, confirmed this figure. Airlines considered it acceptable.

Comments

[AdAstra]

Holy shit! They have a "stretched" version, it's not in production yet and doesn't even fly properly, but they're already developing a "shortened" one. The plans are simply enormous. Well, then, they're also working on a "medium" version... hm... develop it so there's something for everyone.

[Uncle lee]

Quote from AdAstra

. develop it so that there is something for every taste.

Shortened, averaged, elongated, flattened, rounded, squared, widened, narrowed, elevated.... So many versions!

[man]

Quote: Uncle Lee

Quote from AdAstra

. develop it so that there is something for every taste.

Shortened, averaged, elongated, flattened, rounded, squared, widened, narrowed, elevated.... So many versions!

The main thing is not to let it get to flight tests... and then you see, either the donkey will die, or the padishah

[Nexcom]

..and here's another one we forgot!
This is a VIP version for government officials!

[alexoff]

And for each one, a budget can be allocated and a shift in deadlines to the right can be justified.

[marchcat]

The more versions there are, the more money can be “mastered”, and this money comes from the budget.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote from Uncle Lee

Shortened, averaged, elongated, flattened, rounded, squared, widened, narrowed, elevated.... So many versions!

Yeah. Just like in the Navy modernization programs since 2010 (!). More R&D, new and different! And then, like Bursukov and Rakhmanov... no one will ever look for... or attract... despite the lack of ships for the Navy.
As for the civil aviation fleet, the plan is roughly the same...

[bk316]

They have an "extended" version, it's not in production yet and doesn't really fly, but they're already developing a "shortened" one.

A completely normal situation.
It is customary to conduct R&D on two models in advance.
There is even a lag here; R&D, according to the long version, has already ended.
Aircraft in series.

Just for fun.
Intel at one point was R&Ding THREE generations of processors.

[AdAstra]

"Airplanes in series."
A list of companies that have purchased and are currently operating them, and their numbers, please. I can't find one myself.

[bk316]

Otherwise, I can’t find one myself.

Are you really out of the loop or are you just kidding?
Only the lazy haven't written about this on VO.
https://topwar.ru/283780-pervyj-serijnyj-ms-21-310-peredan-iz-ceha-okonchatelnoj-sborki-na-ispytanija.html

[Fitter65]

Quote: bk316

Are you really out of the loop or are you just kidding?

He's out of the loop, and he doesn't know how to act the fool, because that's just the way he is in life.

[AdAstra]

To the garden it's in that direction, yeah.

[AdAstra]

A list of companies that have purchased and are currently operating them, and their numbers. If you're a slow reader and didn't read it the first time, here's a list.

[the most important]

A completely normal situation.
Two years to erase two sections with an eraser? Where's the much-vaunted AI? Can't they set it up to do the calculations and finish everything within a week?

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: the most important

Two years to erase two sections with an eraser?

So, was it possible to just take a grinder and call a good argon welder?...

[Orange Bigg]

Quote: the most important

A completely normal situation.
Two years to erase two sections with an eraser? Where's the much-vaunted AI? Can't they set it up to do the calculations and finish everything within a week?

In the US, probably, where AI is being seriously implemented, although we are also implementing AI, but not yet as much as we would like.

Generative AI, which has been featured in both Komsomolskaya Pravda and Vzglyad, is used in aircraft manufacturing to automatically generate configuration options, calculate strength, and even predict fatigue failure. For example, for the new PD-8 engine or the upgraded MC-21-310 wing, engineers are already using neural network modules to select the optimal blade or rib shape.

Previously, a designer would manually review 10–20 options. A neural network can generate and filter thousands of options in an hour, selecting the three lightest, most robust, and most technologically advanced. All of these systems are domestic. Under pressure from sanctions and the shutdown of Western PLM platforms (Siemens Teamcenter, Dassault Systèmes), Russian developers have created their own equivalents: Pilot: PLM, Kompas-3D with AI elements, and industry-specific solutions from TsAGI and UEC. And generative AI is being integrated into this new infrastructure.

https://bibimot.ru/14162-kak-iskusstvennyj-intellekt-menjaet-rossijskoe-aviastroenie-ot-chertezhej-do-serii.html

[man]

Quote: bk316

Intel at one point was R&Ding THREE generations of processors.

Intel has a slightly different reputation...

[astepanov]

Quote: bk316

It is customary to conduct R&D on two models in advance.
There is even a lag here; R&D, according to the long version, has already ended.
Aircraft in series.

In what series? One and a half planes in three years? They just can't seem to develop a replacement for the crop duster. The An-2 was launched into production within three post-war (!) years – counting from the time the Antonov Design Bureau was established. Now they've been trying to develop a replacement for the crop duster for TEN YEARS – and still nothing. But even if testing and certification are successfully completed by the end of 2026, then an enormous amount of time and money will be consumed by tooling production, personnel training, etc. In the end, nothing will come of it. Forget the fantasies and enticements of Manturov and company: the aviation industry was not destroyed, nor were factories and schools destroyed for this reason. The people who destroyed everything are still here, and now their sons and daughters are feeding off the treasury and theft. Where is our microelectronics, machine tool manufacturing, auto industry, chemical industry, bearings, and special alloys? The USSR had its own lithium (I bought it, I know) – now it's gone, just as the vast range of reagents is gone. Where's the battery industry? It's dead. And all these Manturovs kept telling us, "Here it is, tomorrow, just a little bit more and..." Putin just recently said we need to maintain our leadership in AI. Do we have it? Moreover, immediately after this statement, they shut down the purchase of imported computer hardware, supposedly to stimulate the development of domestic production. Of course, they've been destroying the industry for thirty years, and now they're expecting (and in fact, they're not expecting) that we'll soon develop our own technologies, lithographs, and so on. This lie is so annoying that if Manturov told me the sun would rise tomorrow morning, I'd seriously doubt it.

[bk316]

This lie is so annoying that if Manturov says that the sun will rise tomorrow morning, I will seriously doubt it.

So you are Foma and not Alexey.

[Aerolab]

There was much less bureaucracy in the USSR. So everything got done faster.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: bk316

Aircraft in series.

Already in series?! It seems they haven't even finished their certification yet...

Even after completing certification, the Il 114-300 was not put into serial production.

[ARIONkrsk]

Quote from AdAstra

Holy shit! They have a "stretched" version, it's not in production yet and doesn't even fly properly, but they're already developing a "shortened" one. The plans are simply enormous. Well, then, they're also working on a "medium" version... hm... develop it so there's something for everyone.

You can't earn as much in production as in development. They've been developing something for 10 years now, but there's still no production.

[Orange Bigg]

Quote from AdAstra

Holy shit! They have a "stretched" version, it's not in production yet and doesn't even fly properly, but they're already developing a "shortened" one. The plans are simply enormous. Well, then, they're also working on a "medium" version... hm... develop it so there's something for everyone.

Are you suggesting doing nothing at all? The MS-21-310 is undergoing flight testing, and the development of the new MS-21-210 will not affect these MS-21-310 tests in any way, for better or worse, so they're doing the right thing by wasting no time and developing the MS-21-210 in parallel. What's the point of waiting?

.develop it so that there is something for every taste.

Do you want the country to fly only one type of aircraft? But besides the MC-21-310, we also need the SSJ-100, the Il-114-300, the MC-21-500 (also known as the ShFDMS), and the Tu-454. If we don't test and develop some of them now, you'll start asking, "Where are our planes?" and "When will they go into mass production?" So, they're doing the right thing. The main thing is not to waste time.

[AdAstra]

I suggest we at least do something and finish it, and not constantly "develop something" with pretty pictures and promises - "we'll do it, but a little to the right", yeah.

[Orange Bigg]

How's that supposed to work? First, bring the Il-114-300 into serial production by a certain year, and only then begin work on, say, the SSJ-100. And only after the SSJ-100 enters serial production, having lost a ton of time, begin work on the MC-21-310, bringing it into serial production over time, and only then begin work on the MC-21-500, and then the Tu-454? Why can't everything be done in parallel and simultaneously? It's also faster. Especially since we need all kinds of aircraft now, of different classes, and the faster the better. But with what you're proposing, aircraft development could take 100 years.

[AdAstra]

What does this have to do with different planes? The news is about the same plane, the basic version of which isn't really built or flying, but we're told, "It's rubbish that it doesn't fly, not just on airlines, and everything about it is murky, but we'll have a similar one in the future, only a few inches shorter." To use a household analogy, do you renovate your apartment using the same method or not, because your wife is the more reasonable person among you and immediately brings you to your senses with a slipper on the head?

[Orange Bigg]

It's not being built properly because serial production is just beginning due to the MS-21-310 undergoing testing in various variants. Once testing is complete, serial production will begin.

As usual, we first present aircraft statistics and then move on to an analysis of test dynamics by aircraft type. All changes in parentheses are indicated in the article compared to April 2026.

MS-21-310, aircraft number 73057 – 13 flights, 46 hours
MS-21-310, aircraft number 73055 – 11 flights, 40 hours

https://dzen.ru/a/afcxd787N2ooHTTk

[Orange Bigg]

Quote from AdAstra

What does this have to do with different planes? The news is about the same plane, the basic version of which isn't really built or flying, but we're told, "It's rubbish that it doesn't fly, not just on airlines, and everything about it is murky, but we'll have a similar one in the future, only a few inches shorter." To use a household analogy, do you renovate your apartment using the same method or not, because your wife is the more reasonable person among you and immediately brings you to your senses with a slipper on the head?

We need to implement engineering solutions as quickly as possible, rather than wait for something to happen. We need to look to the future in aircraft manufacturing and beyond. Here's an example.

An international team from the University of Strathclyde and Airbus has successfully tested a synchronous motor with superconducting coils. Instead of copper, they use resistance-free coils, and instead of overheating, they use liquid nitrogen cooling. This was reported by Hitech, citing a study in the journal IEEE Transactions on Applied Superconductivity.

Engineers from the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow and the aircraft manufacturer Airbus have built and tested a powertrain that overcomes the main obstacle to electric aviation—the enormous weight of traditional copper motors and cables. The developers replaced the copper with coils made of high-temperature superconductors. These materials conduct enormous currents without resistance and generate no heat. A closed-loop liquid nitrogen circuit cools the system, maintaining the operating temperature inside the motor at minus 196 degrees Celsius. Experimental runs on a test rig confirmed that the system consistently delivers the designed power and demonstrates a record-breaking energy density per kilogram of mass.

https://dzen.ru/a/ah_dRrPDWWdXgt6L

[AdAstra]

What kind of "engineering solution" will be implemented on an airplane that simply has a chunk of its fuselage cut out because our "lightweight" composites turned out to be heavier than their "lightweight" composites, or even aluminum?

[bk316]

which will simply have a piece of the fuselage cut out,

I wanted to write that if a piece of the plane's fuselage were simply cut off, it would crash, but no, it simply wouldn't take off.

[AdAstra]

It can't be?! I didn't even suspect it. There's nothing else to poke with, right? Well, try, you know, before there are grammatical errors in the comment or anything else.

[Nexcom]

Well, what do you mean? I'll have to redo the wiring—in short, make it all, all those fluid lines, etc.
It's not like cutting a log shorter...

[AdAstra]

Thanks, Cap. Will these be some new engineering solutions that will be implemented or what?

[Nexcom]

These are standard solutions. There can't be anything new there.

[AdAstra]

Well, there you have it—there can't be anything new. And I'm talking about some kind of "engineering solutions" being implemented. Someone just got screwed once again when the actual performance turned out to be significantly different from the design specifications, and for the worse, and now they're just trying to pull a fast one.

[earlian]

Excuse me, but do you have any idea about airplanes? About stability, controllability, balance, and so on and so forth? You see, by cutting off a little, you get a slightly different design...

[AdAstra]

So, you know, I understand, even if only a little, but again, what "engineering solutions" will be implemented and "tailored" to the shortened version, as I was told here, that haven't been used before? What unprecedented discoveries will be made and implemented in the production of the chopped-down fuselage, huh? And what you listed—calculating stability, controllability, and center of gravity—is just routine work.

[earlian]

So you need to ask these questions to the engineers at the design bureau, not here on the website... And that routine work will be carried out to launch the aircraft into production in a shortened version, with different characteristics, and so on and so forth. There's also new testing and certification...

[bk316]

I suggest we at least do something and finish it, rather than constantly “developing something”

Should all the design bureaus and research institutes be disbanded or should they simply be told not to do anything but get paid?
Yes, sir, you are a pest.

[Gavrilo Princip]

And then Deputy Prime Minister Trutnev will speak and say that the implementation of the Baikal regional aircraft project in Russia has reached a dead end, and we don't expect to see a Baikal aircraft...

[Nemchinov Vl]

I suggest we at least do something and finish it, rather than constantly “developing something”

Quote: bk316

Should all the design bureaus and research institutes be disbanded or should they simply be told not to do anything but get paid?

Well, it depends on how they work?!
If many of them, (as in shipbuilding Navy programs!), they are simply ready to stupidly master the resources for their own design, and with a serious look talk out loud about new ship designs, for example, point-blank not noticing that their design is based on a propulsion plant that does not exist in nature and in living metal, then yes (!). Then disperse.

But if some of these KBs can calculate (including materials and all related technological processes for manufacturing !), and at its own branch or affiliated production and testing facility, manufacture and conduct a full cycle of tests (!) to determine the power of such a propulsion plant and its motor-resource capabilities during operation, and then, based on the completed propulsion plant, develop ships—yes, yes. Such a design bureau would make sense to maintain, even with very high salaries.

There are too many design bureaus and research institutes that are only willing to draw pictures in Tridemax in order to spend their R&D budget...

[Stas157]

Quote from Orange Bigg

MS-21-500 (aka SHFDMS)

The SHFDMS is a wide-body aircraft with a PD-35 engine. The MS-21-500 is not a wide-body aircraft with a PD-26 engine. These are different aircraft.

[Stoler]

"Then you'll start asking, 'Where are our planes? When will they go into mass production? What will we fly?' Are you just pretending, or haven't you actually noticed that these questions have been asked for 15 years? Considering that these planes were presented to the electorate with pathos and pomp 15 years ago as a "breakthrough," "rebirth," "restoration," "pride," and yet another "Kuzka's mother"?

[Dedok]

They have a "stretched" version, not yet in production and not really flying, but they're already developing a "shortened" one. The plans are simply enormous.

These are not plans, these are bravura reports...

[Nexcom]

...but before they would report when they would finish it, but they weren't planning to start doing it...

[Dedok]

...but before they reported when they would do it, but they didn't plan to start doing it.

That's how it was before: back then they asked "for the report"...
and today - nothing but chatter...

[Nexcom]

Yes, and it was possible to get a very fair shake for ruining the result. But now...

[Smoker]

Holy cow... and people still don't know that the era of Russian space exploration will fall into the Pacific Ocean along with the ISS!!!... Comrades, they'll be stunned, and it's just around the corner... There are no replacements, and it's obvious we can't handle it alone... We can't handle anything except pipelines... And we can't even churn out planes with obviously inferior characteristics, because they caved in at one point and ruined everything... And just look at how quickly they grounded the old Tu-154!!! That's a whole other story...

[Nexcom]

..you had to know how to fly "by hand" there - the 154 is a strict aircraft to pilot. And now - not pilots, but button operators in the cockpit - the old-timers themselves say so - aviation veterans...

[man]

Quote: Smoker

And just look at the speed at which they banned the old Tu-154 from flying!!! That's a whole other story...

I remember... even Kobzon took part...

[Foaly]

And just look at the speed at which the old Tu-154 was banned from flying!!!

Who banned them? No one did. It was just that flying them became too expensive, and airlines now had the resources to purchase higher-quality equipment.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Nexcom

But before, they reported when they would finish it, but they weren't planning to start doing it...

Previously, if someone even openly hinted at what they were planning, they'd be giving evidence to the guys in the caps with crimson bands within a couple of hours. Now, the entire development and production process is covered online. They even hold competitions to see who can be the first to post everything that's going on in their design bureau and production facility.

[Nexcom]

...that's exactly it. And, to be honest, this overabundance of media attention is just getting on my nerves...
for everything is good in moderation.

[Gomunkul]

There are simply a ton of plans.

It's just like in the old fairy tale by H.H. Anderson, "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Life in this king's capital was very joyful; foreign guests arrived almost daily, and then one day two impostors appeared. They pretended to be weavers and claimed to be able to produce a marvelous fabric, the likes of which could not be imagined: in addition to its extraordinarily beautiful design and coloring, it also had the astonishing property of becoming invisible to anyone who was out of place or incredibly stupid.

And he gave the swindlers a large deposit so that they would get to work immediately.

They set up two looms and pretended to be working diligently, but in reality, there was absolutely nothing on the looms. Without the slightest embarrassment, they demanded the finest silk and the purest gold for their work, stashing it all in their pockets and sitting at the empty looms from morning until late at night.

[Fitter65]

Quote from AdAstra

They have an "extended" version, it's not in production yet and doesn't really fly, but they're already developing a "shortened" one.

Who are they? If you're not aware, the first production aircraft in its standard configuration took off a couple of days ago. Why aren't you outraged by the Boeing 737 variants?

Boeing 737-200 — B732, Boeing 737-600 — B736, Boeing 737-700 — B73G, Boeing 737-800 — B73H. Aircraft equipped with vertical winglets are designated 737W or 739W. For the most part, the aircraft model designations symbolize the fuselage length, although there are only nine designations and six fuselage variants. They are distributed like this (in ascending order of length): 1) -100; 2) -200, -500, -600; 3) -300, -700; 4) -400; 5) -800; 6) -900.

And there's so much sarcasm here. The Boeing 737, for example, has been produced by Boeing since 1967, so that's fine. But the fact that a new plane, LAUNCHED into production, actually includes a modification is astonishing!

[Stas157]

Quote: Fitter65

It turns out that a modification is already provided, which is surprising!!!!?

It's surprising that it doesn't have winglets (sablets), and this is in the 21st century!
Thanks for finally getting around to doing it on a Superjet. A real breakthrough, I think!!

[Fitter65]

Quote: Stas157

It is surprising that it does not have winglets (sablets).

Does a wing without a winglet (sablet) lose its lifting properties?

The disadvantages of using such wingtips (winglets, endplates or Whitcomb washers, downkills, sharklets) are a significant increase in the influence of wind on the aircraft during takeoff and landing, as well as more severe turbulence when flying in a turbulent atmosphere.

These bells and whistles don't offer any advantage over a classic wing, other than the cost of production...

[Evgeny64]

He doesn't care, he learned a new word, looked at the photo, it's beautiful What it is and what it's for doesn't matter anymore, it's the 21st century... knowledge isn't needed, just a picture and advertising.
Yes, actually, in our production, "managers" manage engineers, what's there to talk about

[Stas157]

Quote: Evgeny64

It doesn't matter anymore, it's the 21st century... knowledge is not needed

Share your knowledge, friend! Reveal the truth.

[Evgeny64]

I'll share, even here on VO, there was a good article, I think it was in winter, about all these winglets and such. Comparisons, efficiency, advantages and disadvantages. Otherwise, even Google returns hundreds of articles. Well, there are specialized sites, of course.
I don’t really share my knowledge here, I don’t write articles and I don’t claim anything to refer to.
The comrade to whom this is addressed understood everything.
And if you want to argue, you should present your arguments, then there will be a reason for conversation.

[Stas157]

Quote: Fitter65

These bells and whistles don't offer any advantage over a classic wing, other than the cost of production...

Why did the Sublettes do this on the Superjet out of boredom? Or did they forget to consult you?

On modern Boeings and Airbuses, it is a rule to have winglets or sublettes.

[Guest]

The MS-21's lack of wingtips is compensated for by other solutions that achieve the same aerodynamic effect, for example, a high wing aspect ratio
The MS-21 has an aspect ratio of 11,5, which is higher than most modern passenger aircraft of its class (and therefore has a lower wing loading). For example, the Airbus A320 has an aspect ratio of 10,45.
Thus, the MS-21 has a reduced structural weight and a lower wing load during takeoff and landing.

[Stas157]

Quote: Guest

The MS-21's lack of winglets is compensated for by other solutions

They were talking about the Superjet too. And then bam... they gave it Sublettes!

Yes, the MS-21 has a very long and narrow wing—a supercritical profile. However, sub-winglets would have made the wing even more perfect.

[Guest]

The MS-21 design emphasized the use of a high-aspect-ratio composite wing. Composite materials reduced the wing's weight and gave it more aerodynamic dimensions—it's thinner and narrower than an all-metal wing. The increased aspect ratio itself improves the lift-to-drag ratio, which reduces fuel consumption.
A composite wing with optimized parameters made it possible to achieve the desired balance between aerodynamics, weight, and efficiency without additional structural elements.

The situation is somewhat different with the SSJ 100. This aircraft has a shorter-span swept wing, and its aerodynamic performance was inferior to that of the MS-21. The installation of horizontal winglets on the SSJ 100 improved aerodynamics, reduced fuel consumption by 3–5%, and improved takeoff and landing performance. For the SSJ 100, the winglets increased the aircraft's efficiency.

Theoretically, installing winglets on the MS-21 could further improve aerodynamic performance and reduce fuel consumption, but it would
-increasing the weight of the aircraft by adding winglets
- revision of design solutions related to the wing and its fastenings
-conducting additional testing and certification.
Given that the basic MS-21 configuration already provides high aerodynamic performance thanks to its composite wing, the benefits of installing winglets may be insignificant compared to the costs involved. The impact of winglets on other parameters, such as lateral stability and performance, must also be considered.

All this does not change the fact that in the future the issue of winglets on the MS-21 may be considered again

[Fitter65]

Quote: Stas157

Why did the Sublettes do this on the Superjet out of boredom? Or did they forget to consult you?

[Stas157]

So, this is an old, pre-import-substituted Superjet 100. The new, import-substituted Superjet New has these sublets. They're claimed to provide up to 4% fuel savings. And that's quite a bit.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Stas157

So, this is an old, pre-import-substituted Superjet 100. The new, import-substituted Superjet New has these sublets. They're claimed to provide up to 4% fuel savings. And that's quite a lot.

Rosaviatsiya, at the request of PJSC Irkut Corporation, has approved a major change to the RRJ-95 standard design, which involves the introduction of horizontal wingtips on the RRJ-95LR-100 model. As you know, wingtips, known as "cyberlets," are already used on the Superjet, but on the Basic model. They can be seen on Severstal Airlines aircraft.

Unfortunately, these "cyberlets" never achieved widespread use on SSJ-100 aircraft. It is now possible to install winglets on the Long Range version.
However, it's not entirely clear why. On the one hand, relatively few Superjets of this version have been produced, and besides, it seems to me that the carriers themselves are waiting for the SSJ-NEW to appear and will be purchasing these aircraft first.

Something like that.

[Stas157]

Quote: Fitter65

The carriers themselves are waiting for the arrival of the SSJ-NEW

I wrote about this.

The SSJ-NEW (the imported SSJ 100) will feature horizontal wingtips, which will be standard equipment rather than an option like on the original Sukhoi Superjet 100. Superjet 100 Chief Designer Kirill Kuznetsov confirmed that this design feature will reduce fuel consumption by 3-5%, improving cost efficiency for airlines. The installation of horizontal wingtips is the "most noticeable change" for the SSJ-NEW.

[Evgeny64]

Damn, the Su-35 doesn't have winglets either, oh the horror, and even the IL-76 doesn't, and this is in the 21st century.
They could at least have taken an interest, for self-development, in what they are, their types, the methods of changing wingtips to achieve certain parameters, their pros and cons, before making any blanket statements.

[Polite Moose]

Quote from AdAstra

And they're already developing a "shortened" one. The plans are simply enormous.

They are obviously targeting the Israeli market.

[ShDE]

Well, we need to plan ahead. And secure the money for the announcement.

[AdAstra]

Yeah - strike while the iron is hot.

[faiver]

We didn't know in advance that the standard version would be overweight...

[Piramidon]

Quote: faiver

We didn't know in advance that the standard version would be overweight...

None of the designers and engineers could have imagined that instead of aluminum seats, they would be sent cast iron passenger seats.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Piramidon

None of the designers and engineers could have imagined that instead of aluminum seats, they would be sent cast iron passenger seats.

No one thought that Pyramidone would be cheaper than aspirin.

[Fitter65]

Quote: faiver

We didn't know in advance that the standard version would be overweight...

What does the shortened version and the overweighted one have to do with it? Or is it just a bot for the sake of hype?

[faiver]

Given that the shortened version with the same engines and fuel capacity will continue to fly, what a bad day! Why are you attacking people?

[Gomunkul]

The first aircraft will be more expensive than their Western counterparts. Airlines will compensate for the difference with subsidies.

I'd like to know how much more expensive domestic aircraft are than European ones, and why? And why is this banquet being paid for by taxpayers again? Manturov and Chemezov aren't poor; they should cover the difference out of their own pockets if they can't build an aircraft cheaper than their Western competitors.

[man]

Quote: Gomunkul

Manturov and Chemezov are not poor people; they should make up the difference out of their own pockets if they can't create an airplane cheaper than their Western competitors.

Made laugh

[Gomunkul]

Made laugh

I understand that they are part of the untouchable caste and close to the "Sovereign Emperor," but what they are "doing" is beyond all reasonable bounds. I feel ashamed for the country.

[alexoff]

By the way, Chemezov himself flies a Boeing.

[Gomunkul]

And Manturov is also unlikely to travel in a Volga.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Gomunkul

I would like to know how much and why domestic aircraft are more expensive than European ones?

The first production aircraft are always more expensive than those whose production is already established. For some reason, you missed this point and applied it to ALL domestic aircraft.

[Gomunkul]

The first production ones are always more expensive

Why on earth would the first production domestic aircraft be more expensive than their European counterparts? I understand that pre-production aircraft are more expensive than production ones.
So, are you already producing non-competitive aircraft right from the start, or will the Ministry of Industry and Trade introduce a recycling tax on Western aircraft, like it does with cars?

[faiver]

can you explain?

- Otherwise, the fortunes of domestic billionaires will not be able to grow....

[Gomunkul]

- Otherwise, the fortunes of domestic billionaires will not be able to grow....

That's exactly what this whole thing is all about. The main thing is to give this process a beautiful banner.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Gomunkul

I would like to know how much and why domestic aircraft are more expensive than European ones?

Let's start with the fact that foreign aircraft are mass-produced, and the more units of equipment—in our case, aircraft—are produced in a series, the cheaper they are. Developing tooling and production technology also costs money, and the more units of equipment are produced using this tooling and technology, the cheaper each unit will be. Or perhaps you, as a philologist, haven't heard of such processes in economics.

[Gomunkul]

Or are you, as a philologist, not heard of such processes in the economy?

Before you label someone, learn to read comments carefully. After reading, reflect on what you've read and process it. If you can't immediately follow the steps, try again.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Gomunkul

Before you label someone, learn to read comments carefully. After reading, reflect on what you've read and process it. If you can't immediately follow the steps, try again.

Before you advise someone something, try your advice on yourself first.

[ALARI]

The airliner will directly compete with the European Airbus A320. Yeah, the Europeans will sit back and watch as their market is squeezed out, given their lobbying power.

[Dedok]

The airliner will directly compete with the European Airbus A320.

So our Airbuses are living out their days and there won't be any more of them, who will compete with them?
and they won't let us into their market - there are sanctions...

[ALARI]

So I'm wondering how to compete? But Manturov sees things differently:
First Deputy Prime Minister Denis Manturov spoke about the new aircraft in an interview with Kommersant. He immediately outlined its ambitions: the aircraft will directly compete with the European Airbus A320.

[Stas157]

Quote: ALARI

liner will be in direct competition European Airbus A320

The main thing is to smoke it out, and then don't let it flourish. Airbus won't even notice. It's a long way from being a direct competitor. Let the MC-21 reach its stated initial specifications (which the non-import-substituting aircraft had in 2017) first.

[Wratch]

A leading expert in aircraft manufacturing! And in everything, really. A lunatic with a liberal arts education runs the industry. What he definitely knows how to do is make loud declarations, promises, and then... push the deadlines for those promises further and further. A manufacturing genius!
With all the CAD systems, they claim it takes 10 years to develop an airplane. Here's a question: how did they build airplanes under decaying socialism without all this, using slide rules? And, horror of horrors, using drawing boards?
Maybe we should bring in Manturov's mother? They say she's a brilliant businesswoman, managing companies despite her advanced age. Or maybe Chemezov's wife, who spent 10 years designing an automatic transmission for a VAZ, to no avail?
P.S. There are no planes in the country, but these idiots dream of selling them somewhere... abroad. Incidentally, Rostec is famous for this. They don't supply their own army with weapons, but rather shove them wherever they can get them, for bribes. A brilliant development strategy.

[Nexcom]

..well, maybe Cambodia will buy it. Or in Africa... although there, Airbus or Boeing will probably give local officials a pat on the back (c) and our plane won't do anything. In Africa, they love it when their hands are patted on the back, they really love it.

[Eugene 62]

The airliner will directly compete with the European Airbus A320.

We'll most likely end up with something like the Tu-154. It'll have roughly the same characteristics, but it'll be more expensive.

[Sergey T19]

I'm fed up with this hype. The shortened version was created only because the main version of the aircraft was 6 tons heavier. And the aircraft isn't economically viable. It's heavier because domestic composites are much heavier than foreign ones. Therefore, they'll likely build the shortened version first, and then, if they succeed, the main version. But that means we won't see the aircraft for the next two years.

[Dedok]

This means that we will not see the plane in the next 2 years.

It looks very much like that: they are "jumping off" responsibility...

[man]

Quote: Sergey T19

Therefore, most likely, they will first make a shortened version, and then, if possible, the main version of the aircraft.

I hope their shortened version doesn't turn out heavier than the main one... they found a feeding trough,... very ugly people... (after another ban, I became careful with my expressions)

[Novel_]

Everything can be done on time,
Is it possible to transfer it?
Move it further away,
And cover it with dust.

There are announcements in the country
There are countless analogues.

But do it exactly on time,
Serially, just on time.
No one can...
Even a crowd can't...

For more than thirty years
Broadcast about this and that.
Studied at the Ministry
Another singer!

[pharmacist]

Judging by the situation with the SVO, we won't have to fly much in 2028—fuel will be at a premium. Fuel restrictions have already been introduced at gas stations, not just in Crimea. Only oligarchs on their private jets will be able to fly. We'll stock up on bicycles, and it's better to walk and stay home—it's also good for your health.

[man]

Quote from Pharmacist

We stock up on bicycles, and It's better to walk and staying at home is also good for your health.

Thanks for the recipe, otherwise I, stupid, don't leave the house... now I'll have to go from Moscow to Vladivostok to treat my legs

[solar]

Judging by the situation with the SVO in 2028 we won't have to fly much

Ukraine banned flights to its territory due to attacks on airports and air defense operations from the very beginning of the war. I hope that with Ukraine's increased missile and long-range UAV inventory, we don't run into the same problem. :((...

[Andrey Petrov]

Yes, you should release a regular one first. You've had enough of stealing money. Here's a new project, new money.

[Zaurbek]

Airbus has 318, 319, 320, 321, 321XLR... And the younger 318 and 319 overlap with the "long" versions of the SSZh100 class aircraft.

[Non-fighter]

I don't understand why they need to make a tame version.
Fewer passengers/cargo, less revenue per flight.
But the cockpit, avionics, engines are the same, meaning the price is about the same, well, maybe we'll save on the fuselage, a piece of iron.
What is the benefit?

[man]

Quote: Not the fighter

What is the benefit?

In someone's pocket

[Stas157]

Quote: Not the fighter

What is the benefit?

There, the range almost doubles. And that's important for long-haul flights.

MS-21-200 in a two-class configuration - 6,400 km.

[Non-fighter]

Thank you for enlightening.

[AC130 Gunship]

Author, you're way off base. Besides the A220 (previously developed by Bombardier as the CS-series), there are plenty of 115-144-seat Embrayers on the market.
And, in my opinion, looking at how cleverly all conceivable and inconceivable plans for the MC21 are being "shifted to the right" (the first flight, mind you, was a full 8 years ago), it's probably not worth continuing to position it as competitor A or B. Which it will definitely never become.

[Ivan F]

"But after 2030," most of the current "elites" and those responsible for the various "instructions" of the galley captain will depart into the sunset in Boeings, Airbuses, Bombardiers, and so on. That's what will happen after 2030.

[Doctor]

I read somewhere a calculation for a medium-haul aircraft for domestic transportation here.
Optimally - 110 seats.

[moreman78]

Quote: Not the fighter

I don't understand why they need to make a tame version.
Fewer passengers/cargo, less revenue per flight.
But the cockpit, avionics, engines are the same, meaning the price is about the same, well, maybe we'll save on the fuselage, a piece of iron.
What is the benefit?

Well, in a nutshell - to cover the asses of all the high-ranking officials who are involved in this matter!
Because the basic version of the aircraft turned out to be heavier. And the aircraft isn't economically viable. It's heavier because domestic composites are much heavier than foreign ones. That's why they decided to push through the shortened version first, and then the basic version!

[antikilller55]

Isn't this the same Manturov who promised to produce 1000 aircraft by 2030? I hope he's already set up production, because time is running out. But seriously, it's all just blah blah blah again. We'll overtake and outshine America.

[senima56]

D. Manturov has already promised 15 years of "strict regime"! Listening to his nonsense means not respecting yourself!

[Pavel57]

Quote: Aerolab

There was much less bureaucracy in the USSR. So everything got done faster.

In Stalin's USSR they could have even put you in jail.

[Konnick]

Just don't lengthen it, otherwise we'll get a "tailstrike" like on stretched Airbuses and Boeings.

[Svarog5570]

But the Superjet is more suitable for this niche.