Military Review

Legal protection of the feelings of believers: a few words about the appropriateness of new legislation

240
In the second reading, Russian lawmakers from the Lower Chamber of Parliament adopted a draft law that criminalizes words, actions and actions that offend the feelings of believers. The maximum penalty, according to the letter of the future law, for such a sin can be three years. This maximum punishment is associated with a situation where an insult to the feelings of believers took place in a place intended for worship, religious ceremonies and other ceremonies.


Legal protection of the feelings of believers: a few words about the appropriateness of new legislation


The reason for the emergence of this bill and its discussion in the State Duma is understandable. The parliamentarians decided to respond to the frankly vile act that was committed by a group of specially gifted girls in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior. It was a sabbath, arranged, forgive, Lord, musicians, in the main Orthodox church of Russia, in fact, led to the emergence of at least some legislative norms protecting the feelings of believers.

However, the draft law that is being adopted today in the State Duma is clearly not unambiguous. Protecting the feelings of believers is certainly wonderful. But after all, arguing on the subject of this legal document, many (and deputies are no exception) kept in front of their eyes the picture of insulting the feelings of the Orthodox believers, the picture of “spawning” from Pussy Riot. But in Russia believers are not only Orthodox. If you believe one of the sociological studies that was conducted in August last year with the participation of the magazine Ogonek, the confessional structure today looks like this: 43% of the regions surveyed in 79 from 83 called themselves Orthodox Christians (including Orthodox Serbian, Armenian and Georgian churches), about 6,5% - Muslims, 0,5% - Buddhists, 13% - atheists, about 25% - people who are spiritual in essence, but do not consider themselves to be a particular denomination. The remaining percentages were distributed among Jews, Hare Krishnas, Hindus and representatives of other religions.

Returning to the bill, the question arises: what exactly is an insult to the feelings of believers? Most recently, our site again touched upon the issue of the spread of radicalism in the North Caucasus. One of the cornerstones here (in the North Caucasus Federal District) was the ban on parents attending school for those students (girls) who are not allowed to go to school in hijabs by representatives of the pedagogical community and supervisory authorities. How to deal with this situation? Is it possible that the bill, which was adopted in the second reading, will ultimately be used against the state? How? Yes, very simple. The same fathers of schoolgirls from Kara-Tyube may well state that the ban on wearing hijabs at school offends their feelings - the feelings of believers (in this case Muslims). What kind of specific course of Islam do these gentlemen adhere to is a separate question ... They are insulting and that's it. And who should be charged after that: the school principal, the head of the district education department or, perhaps, a specific prosecutor?

If we seriously consider this particular case, it turns out that the new bill, which will eventually become law, will need to be brought into line with existing laws or regulations. Well, for example, about the introduction of a uniform sample form at school. But how? Prescribe a clause that a ban on wearing religious clothes in educational institutions of Russia de jure insult the feelings of believers is not? Perhaps so, but only such a formulation looks somewhat cynical ...

For example, the ban on the construction of mosques on a private territory, which is actively being conducted in a number of Russian regions: Stavropol Territory, the so-called national republics of the North Caucasus, can be called an insult to the feelings of believers. It turns out that now any decision of the prosecutor's office on the need to suspend or permanently stop the construction of a religious (any confession) object can be reduced to insulting the feelings of believers: if they did not give an opportunity to gather for prayer, it means that they were insulted ...

And the situation with the feelings of atheists looks very strange. The results of the survey above show that there are more than 18 million people in our country. And it would be completely stupid to think that unbelievers have no feelings of their own. Well, at least a sense of justice ... Do the feelings of atheists insult that, for example, Christmas is a day off, and Cosmonautics Day is not? Do atheist feelings insult the introduction of the subject "Fundamentals of religious culture and secular ethics" in secondary schools? With all the oddities of these issues, obviously, there will be people who decide to probe the legislative ground of Russia on this subject. As they say, there would be a reason to suck, and there ...

And a completely confusing situation can occur when people from different religions coexist within the same community. Where is here to draw a clear line between insults feelings of some and others. The case when representatives of various confessions condemn an ​​offensive action that was made against representatives of another confession are not uncommon, but they are not ubiquitous. Bacchanalia in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior was condemned by the leaders of all major Russian denominations. But with the same hijdabs in school, the situation is not so simple. In particular, the deputy chairman of the Council of Muftis of Russia, Mr. Abbyasov, at one time stated that the Constitution gives the right to freedom of religion, and therefore permits the use of religious motifs in clothing. The main advocate of all Russian children, Pavel Astakhov, adheres to the same point of view, stating that in Stavropol schools, the quote: “they go too far”. It turns out that any teacher who did not want to let a student into the class, who (perhaps, quite provocatively) decided to put on religious clothes, may now be subject to criminal prosecution. A car owner can also be subjected to criminal prosecution, who, by disrupting the process of communicating with God, can get to his parked car in the street, which has been surrounded by people praying during one of the major religious holidays.

In general, this bill is so crude that its final adoption may not lead to real protection of the feelings of believers, but to additional differentiation in Russian society. Ivan insulted the feelings of Joseph, because Joseph insulted the feelings of Magomed, and then some “Khryushi Riot” came and insulted the feelings of all the above believers at once - something like that.

Based on this, you come to the conclusion: why should we try to invent such a complicated “bicycle”, which, among other things, is unlikely to go ... Is there really not enough articles in modern legislation that could regulate relations between individuals? regardless of their confessional affiliation? After all, there are articles punishing vandalism, slander and insult. There is a provision on a uniform school uniform - be kind enough to observe it. Is that not enough?

If not, then, for example, you need to add articles about insulting the feelings of representatives of various professions ... I threw a cigarette butt past an urn - insulted the janitor’s feelings, did not put on shoe covers in the clinic - therapist’s feelings, did not pass inspection, the traffic police officer’s feelings, etc.

Should we make a distinction between janitors and doctors, librarians and bakers, believers and unbelievers, if they are all citizens of one country? If we go precisely along this slippery path, then at this rate we and the Constitution will soon have to be rewritten. Were a secular state, and we will become? .. Oh, this multiculturalism ...
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  1. Wawan
    Wawan 23 May 2013 07: 28 New
    26
    Most likely, the adoption of such a crude law will lead to a split in society on a religious basis.
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 23 May 2013 08: 00 New
      +3
      Quote: wawan
      Most likely, the adoption of such a crude law will lead to a split in society on a religious basis.

      To a split in society on religious grounds?
      Tell this to Muslims in the North Caucasus regions or, for example, in the Stavropol Territory. bully
      1. redwolf_13
        redwolf_13 23 May 2013 08: 15 New
        22
        One thing I don’t understand is the loafers from Gos Dury that they decided to lay another "bomb" under the foundations of the state. Not enough articles for them "On the incitement of ethnic hatred" so they still decided to take up the feelings of believers. There are no other worries. Or someone threw up money and asked to push the question. Further, that the “Court of the Holy Church” and bonfires flare up and hundreds of thousands lay down their heads in the name of another's faith. In a state of problems above the roof. Pedophiles, state thieves, utilities, roads that are few.
        And here’s another example I read today, I was simply furious what kind of people these are, what else to fight with (In Togliatti, LGBT activists laid condoms at the Eternal Flame http://www.kp.ru/daily/26079/2983959/)
        Here's how you can understand it ?????
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 23 May 2013 08: 18 New
          12
          Quote: redwolf_13
          . Further, that the “Court of the Holy Church” and bonfires flare up and hundreds of thousands lay down their heads in the name of another's faith.

          What text have you taken from?


          (In Togliatti, LGBT activists laid condoms at the Eternal Flame http://www.kp.ru/daily/26079/2983959/)
          Here's how you can understand it ?????

          Just like the acts of these sluts from FEMEN:


          Or these scumbags:

          Supporters of "Pussy Riot" spoiled the monument to Lenin in Lipetsk with paint
          http://www.interfax-religion.ru/print.php?act=news&id=47397


          SOFIA, August 17. In Sofia monument to the soldiers of the Soviet Army unidentified desecrated. The heads of the sculptures were “decorated” with multi-colored balaclava masks like those in which members of the Pussy Riot group performed during a punk prayer service in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow.
          http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2012/08/17/1023590.html


          On the monument to the partisans at the Belorusskaya put on the Pussy Riot balaclava.
          http://www.polit.ru/news/2012/08/17/balaklava/


          Unknown people wrote "Pussy Riot" on the wall of the Sverdlovsk temple and tried to burn the door.
          http://www.interfax-russia.ru/Ural/news.asp?id=340111&sec=1672
          1. Svobodny
            Svobodny 23 May 2013 08: 27 New
            +9
            The law should be called simply, not about "feelings" here, but about specific actions: Art. UK No. NN SECURITY. After all, there are articles of the Criminal Code VANDALISM, KILLING. The concept of blasphemy, as well as the above things, is quite definable. Duma thought again ...
            1. Ataman
              Ataman 23 May 2013 10: 45 New
              +6
              So, whoever is mowing down from the army for the reason that religion forbids holding weapons in their hands. We carefully look at the priest.
          2. Hon
            Hon 23 May 2013 08: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: GreatRussia
            At the monument to the partisans on the "Belorusskaya" put on the balaclava Pussy Riot.

            This monument?
            1. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 23 May 2013 08: 41 New
              -2
              Quote: Hon
              This monument?

              Yeah. From the same "opera", the truth in my opinion the goals and motives are different.
              1. Hon
                Hon 23 May 2013 09: 16 New
                +2
                place for photo shoot

                And here is another balleron
            2. Maks111
              Maks111 24 May 2013 16: 48 New
              0
              Hon (3) Yesterday, 08:35 ↑
          3. does it
            does it 23 May 2013 19: 01 New
            -6
            Quote: GreatRussia
            Unknown people wrote "Pussy Riot" on the wall of the Sverdlovsk temple and tried to burn the door.

            the priests themselves are to blame! since when the fools have been persecuted in Russia, priests led by Gundyaev put themselves in a foolish position and these dogs will still burp them for a long time.
            1. Yashka Gorobets
              Yashka Gorobets 23 May 2013 21: 32 New
              +3
              Do you call a deliberate action foolishness? Are the fools for eternal flame also foolishness?
        2. politruk419
          politruk419 23 May 2013 13: 51 New
          -1
          Quote: redwolf_13
          I don’t understand the loafers from Gos Dury that they decided to lay another “bomb” under the foundations of the state.

          Within the meaning of the text, I have no objection. But Pozner is not worth repeating any mune about the “State Dura”.
          1. Hon
            Hon 23 May 2013 14: 28 New
            0
            More appropriate name for "mad printer"
          2. lazy
            lazy 24 May 2013 04: 03 New
            +2
            but if she’s a state fool. a bunch of clowns and opportunists
        3. not good
          not good 23 May 2013 15: 07 New
          +7
          Would it be nice to pass a law on insulting the feelings of voters? belay
        4. Seraph
          Seraph 23 May 2013 15: 41 New
          +6
          Note. Church court has always existed, exists and should exist in the future. And he deals exclusively with the canonical issues of INNERCERICA life. If our deputies of the State Duma solve issues of near-religious lawmaking, it is not necessary to drag the Church. The church court does not care about hijabs, pusseks, ashrams and everything else that is not related to the life of our clergy, our monasticism and our parishioners. If you have any kind of executions against dissidents, then it is more likely the genetic echoes of the recent bullying of atheists and the Godless fighters against the Church with hundreds of thousands of innocently tortured. Not atheists and atheists, Orthodox believers, to reproach
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Magadan
              Magadan 23 May 2013 17: 14 New
              +7
              Is this cover in the sense of your proof? Atheists have already been presented about some kind of "Orthodox inquisition", and have already proved a thousand times that this is bullshit. The Orthodox Church has never been empowered to hold any secular courts and pronounce sentences. The Patriarch never possessed worldly (state) power. Evidence:
              1) Ivan the Terrible sent the Patriarch to prison. Who has the power, it turns out? Do you feel the difference with the pope, to whom the European kings crawled on their knees
              2) Patriarch Germogen was starved to death by the Seven Boyars.
              3) Peter the 1st took the bells and closed the monasteries.
              And where is the state power in the hands of the church?
              1. GG2012
                GG2012 23 May 2013 17: 24 New
                0
                Quote: Magadan
                Is this cover in the sense of your proof?

                Read the book at: http://www.a-theism.com/2013/02/blog-post_6003.html
                Do not count for work!
                Then all the questions asked in the comment will disappear.

                In its content, the book is a dry statistical analysis of documentary sources of the 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th centuries.
                And what sources ??? !!!
                Correspondence of metropolitans with the leadership of the state, reports on the work of church commissions, intra-church correspondence, reports on the work of state commissions, etc.

                The numbers, descriptions of events and conclusions were not taken from the lantern, but written by the hands of the Church employees (therefore, an attempt to declare this a fake and falsification is immediately discarded)

                Best regards
                hi
                1. not good
                  not good 23 May 2013 19: 10 New
                  -4
                  It’s not funny to himself, the book was published in 1964, during the time of militant atheism, when not one scientific work without the knowledge of the CPSU was not published. I remember in order to dissuade Jews from emigrating to Israel in the 80s, the White Book was published, about the heavy share of immigrants from the USSR on the Promised Land, but all those wishing to emigrate did not suddenly read laughing The CPSU created its history of Russia and only Gorbachev did not doubt the crystal clearness of its thoughts. One can assert with 100% certainty that the Orthodox Inquisition, in comparison with the NKVD, is a kindergarten.
                  1. GG2012
                    GG2012 23 May 2013 19: 28 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Negoro
                    It’s not funny to himself, the book was published in 1964, during the time of militant atheism, when not one scientific work without the knowledge of the CPSU was not published.

                    That's ... the manner ... not to read the book ... but to judge it, either by the cover, or by the year of publication ...
                    Right in the best Christian traditions!
                    Almost according to yours, so immediately to the fire!

                    The book really has an imprint of those times.
                    So the struggle of the peasantry against strong Christianization is described as a struggle against a religion alien to the people and against the Church - as the largest landowner of that time, i.e. against the Church as a class of oppressors and feudal lords who mercilessly exploited the peasants.

                    Everything else is quotes from various kinds of documents.

                    So, paragraphs written in the style of the CPSU are 5-7% of the total text.
                    The rest is quotes, links ...
                    I told you, the contents of the book are a little boring statistics and analytics.
                    1. not good
                      not good 23 May 2013 20: 55 New
                      +2
                      I did not judge the book and did not drag YOU to the stake, but being brought up as a convinced communist, for many years of service I learned to be critical of propaganda literature and, whenever possible, always check with the source. what would I understand where the "truly" faithful sailors hang noodles on my ears. From the point of view of dialectical materialism, I declare politics always leads a religion, any religion raised as a flag by politicians becomes a weapon (atheism including e), and those who truly believe in the policy do not climb and live in monasteries. And if you blame, then in comparison with other contemporaries and indicating the primary sources, the most obvious way is table.
              2. Tverichanka
                Tverichanka 23 May 2013 21: 44 New
                +4
                Quote: Magadan
                Is this cover in the sense of your proof?

                Not the cover, but the text. Before talking about a specific book, you should familiarize yourself with its contents. And it turns out "I have not read, but I condemn or do not believe what is written." Agree that those who argue have nevertheless read the Bible and the Gospels and much what else. Here you should go along such a path. Get acquainted with literary sources and argue ARGUENTLY.
                1. GreatRussia
                  GreatRussia 23 May 2013 21: 59 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Tverichanka
                  Not the cover, but the text. Before talking about a specific book, you should familiarize yourself with its contents. And it turns out "I have not read, but I condemn or do not believe what is written." Agree that those who argue have nevertheless read the Bible and the Gospels and much what else. Here you should go along such a path. Get acquainted with literary sources and argue ARGUENTLY.


                  ARGUMENTED:

                  The shine and poverty of Grekulov

                  http://ateismy.net/content/spravochnik/history/grekulov.html

                  Witch-hunt. Statistics of victims.
                  http://www.ateismy.net/content/spravochnik/statistika/oxota_vedm.html


                  You should think and analyze before referring to the agitation and stuffing.
              3. anomalocaris
                anomalocaris 25 May 2013 04: 48 New
                +1
                Everything is right. The Russian Orthodox Church has always been an appendage of the state and nothing else. It just happened so historically. Accordingly, the sovereign, if necessary, completely posed any hierarch in a pose.
                As for worldly power, a small question is, and who exercised power in church lands? And the church passed verdicts on completely religious charges and spread rot of its ideological competitors. So it’s you who are very mistaken
            2. The comment was deleted.
        5. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 23 May 2013 20: 23 New
          +5
          And who, in your retreat, should cultivate a moral attitude towards European values? Teachers? They can’t, sir. But the church ALWAYS stood against sodomites and other rubbish - that's why it is one of the main goals of our "human rights activists". Remember how "Femen" were going to arrange a campaign in Russia and saw crosses.
        6. Maks111
          Maks111 24 May 2013 16: 07 New
          -2
          Further, that the “Court of the Holy Church” and bonfires flare up and hundreds of thousands lay down their heads in the name of another's faith.
          Soooo .... and that's when the Orthodox burned people? Huh?! Catholics burned, but we are not Catholics, and we are not Catholics. Then there is no need to lie.
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 12 New
            0
            Quote: Max111
            Soooo .... and that's when the Orthodox burned people? Huh?! Catholics burned, but we are not Catholics, and we are not Catholics. Then there is no need to lie.

            Punishment in the form of burning alive in a log house for blasphemy was common in the Moscow state. The English envoy Fletcher, who lived in Moscow in the XNUMXth century for six months, witnessed one of the executions:

            ... husband and wife ... were burned in Moscow in a small house, which was set on fire for this purpose. Their guilt remained a mystery, but it is likely that they were punished for some religious truth, although priests and monks assured the people that these people were evil and damned heretics. [1]
            In 1649, at the Zemsky Sobor, a code of laws of the Russian state was adopted, the "Council Code of 1649", which confirmed the burning as a punishment for blasphemy:

            There will be someone of the Gentiles, whatever the faith, or the Russian person, will blame the Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, or the Blessed Lady our Mother of God and the Virgin Mary, or an honest cross, or His Saints, and then find all sorts of detectives tightly. Let it be found out secretly for that, and having blamed that blasphemer, execute, burn. [2]
            The church reform of Patriarch Nikon (1650-1660) was accompanied by burning.

            On April 14, 1682, the Old Believers Archpriest Avvakum and his three prisoners were burned: Theodore, Epiphanius and Lazarus. In addition, the writings of Habakkuk preserved information about the burning of about a hundred more Old Believers. [3]

            Foreigners testified that on Easter 1685, at the direction of Patriarch Joachim, they burned about ninety schismatics in log cabins
            The form of the death penalty through burning was fixed:




            Cathedral Code of 1649 [1]
            for blasphemy against God, the Virgin, saints, the Cross of the Lord (chap. I v. 1)
            for deliberate arson of the city or individual yards (chap. II, article 4, chap. X, article 228)
            for seducers “to their Busurman faith” (chap. XXII art. 24)
            Decree of Alexei Mikhailovich in 1653 [2]
            for witchcraft
            Military regulations of Peter I of 1716 [3]
            for warlocks “if he did harm to someone by his sorcery, or does he have an obligation with the devil” (article 1)
            for arson by officers or privates “arbitrariness and deliberately without a decree to march the city, village and village or churches, schools, spital and mills” (article 178)
            for counterfeiters “by the greatness of violation” (article 199)
            From annalistic sources it is known about the use of execution through burning in Pskov, but in the Pskov judicial certificate (1467) a specific type of death penalty was not specified. [4]




            The late normative acts providing for the death penalty by burning for wizards include the personal decree of Empress Anna Ioannovna “On punishment for invoking wizards and the execution of such deceivers” of May 25, 1731. [5]
            you need to know the mat. part
      2. domokl
        domokl 23 May 2013 08: 59 New
        +4
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Tell this to Muslims in the North Caucasus regions or, for example, in the Stavropol Territory.
        Muslims would have stoned these pusi with stones and all business then .... What the hell split?
        We shit everywhere .. anywhere. From impunity. So let there be at least somewhere a place where they will force it to eat.
      3. Per se.
        Per se. 23 May 2013 09: 31 New
        15
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Tell this to Muslims in the North Caucasus regions or, for example, in the Stavropol Territory.
        What can I tell them that one can be offended by the ban on hinjab and burqa? You want the best, but it will turn out as always (you have to remember Chernomyrdin's pearls). Faith and religion, not one and the same who wanted, he believed in God before, the Communists could not interfere. It is not necessary to omit the state in the Middle Ages, the church should be separated from the state, and faith should be a matter of conscience, without drawing and window dressing.
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 23 May 2013 09: 41 New
          +4
          Quote: Per se.
          No need to omit the state in the Middle Ages,

          Again. You first bring the text of the law, what it is about. What can be discussed without the text of the law? Thinking about a meaningless name according to your beliefs?

          Quote: Per se.

          the church should be separated from the state

          It has been separated, and will remain separate.
          1. Hon
            Hon 23 May 2013 09: 45 New
            +7
            Quote: GreatRussia
            It has been separated, and will remain separate.

            Then why is the patriarch guarding the FSO ?!
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 23 May 2013 09: 49 New
              +1
              Quote: Hon

              Then why is the patriarch guarding the FSO ?!

              That would be such as launches and did not come close to him. Remember the visit of the Patriarch to Ukraine?
              1. Hon
                Hon 23 May 2013 09: 58 New
                13
                Then the mule and the rabbis also need to be protected. And in general, it is necessary to provide protection to each person. Why is my priest guarded on my taxes ?! If he needs protection, let the ROC pay for it !!!
                1. Seraph
                  Seraph 23 May 2013 15: 47 New
                  -4
                  And why is my school paid for my taxes, in which priests are not allowed to children from believing families? If you are smarter than everyone, introduce yourself, maybe you will become President, we will support
                  1. Hon
                    Hon 23 May 2013 16: 08 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Seraphim
                    in which priests are not allowed to children from believing families?

                    Are priests forbidden to enter our school? Can we teach scientific atheism in schools?
                    1. alexandr00070
                      alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 18 New
                      0
                      Quote: Hon
                      Are priests forbidden to enter our school? Can we teach scientific atheism in schools?

                      it’s not banned anymore, there is a marasmic subject “Fundamentals of Orthodox Culture” and now the pop legally walks and powders the brains of children
                  2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
                    NOBODY EXCEPT US 23 May 2013 21: 20 New
                    -2
                    Did priests pay taxes ???? Surprised so surprised ...
                  3. Tverichanka
                    Tverichanka 23 May 2013 22: 01 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Seraphim
                    And why is my school paid for my taxes,

                    Dear, so there are no problems on this issue. Open the central hostel. Who's stopping? Muslim madrassas work for Muslims. Take an example from them. And you can get to the point of absurdity. For example, why do I have a Tchaikovsky concert hall on my taxes? maybe I don’t like classical music.
                    1. Maks111
                      Maks111 24 May 2013 17: 01 New
                      0
                      Open the host house
                      So open Orthodox gymnasium, in which a queue of 30 people per place.
                    2. alexandr00070
                      alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 20 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Tverichanka
                      And why is my school paid for my taxes,

                      you pulled out a piece convenient for criticism, but lost its meaning in such a context
                2. not good
                  not good 23 May 2013 19: 30 New
                  +3
                  And your taxes contain a lot of things. For example, a court that does not judge state thieves, ministers who don’t give a damn about everything except their pockets, deputies who see all the voters in a coffin, the police and a lot more, and all YOUR taxes. And YOU will be the last to whom this state will answer the question WHY.
                  1. Hon
                    Hon 23 May 2013 20: 47 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Negoro
                    And your taxes contain a lot of things. For example, a court that does not judge state thieves, ministers who don’t give a damn about everything except their pockets, deputies who see all the voters in a coffin, the police and a lot more, and all YOUR taxes. And YOU will be the last to whom this state will answer the question WHY.

                    Absolutely right! Thank you for comparing the patriarch with corrupt judges, officials, ministers, police deputies and other crooks. Totally agree with you)))
                    1. GG2012
                      GG2012 23 May 2013 20: 50 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Hon
                      Totally agree with you)))

                      I support you!
                3. not good
                  not good 23 May 2013 19: 48 New
                  0
                  A mule in Russia should be protected, if only because they are not foreign radicals, but citizens brought up in accordance with the secular traditions of our state and there is no guarantee that Wahhabi does not appear in the place of the murdered.
                  1. GG2012
                    GG2012 23 May 2013 20: 07 New
                    0
                    Quote: Negoro
                    and citizens brought up in accordance with the secular traditions of our state

                    of our state ??? !!! ... is Qatar and the UAE our state ??? !!!
                    You are not mistaken?
                    1. not good
                      not good 23 May 2013 20: 58 New
                      +2
                      Your maybe qatar belayAnd our secular state RUSSIA.
                      1. alexandr00070
                        alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 25 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Negoro
                        And our secular state RUSSIA.

                        In a secular state there is nothing to talk about religion, it is separate, even if it lives separately
                4. Maks111
                  Maks111 24 May 2013 16: 59 New
                  +2
                  Then the mule and the rabbis also need to be protected. And in general, it is necessary to provide protection to each person. Why is my priest guarded on my taxes ?! If he needs protection, let the ROC pay for it !!!
                  And why do I pay the mausoleum and abortion from my taxes?
                  1. Hon
                    Hon 24 May 2013 20: 58 New
                    +1
                    Abortions are paid, they are paid by those to whom they are done, not taxpayers. The mausoleum is maintained at the expense of the Research Laboratory at the Lenin Mausoleum. Since 1992, the Laboratory at the Mausoleum of V.I. Lenin has been part of the All-Union Institute of Medicinal and Aromatic Plants (VILAR) and is called the Scientific Research and Training Center for Biomedical Technologies. Since 1993, financial assistance has been provided to scientists by the Charitable Public Organization for the Preservation of the Lenin Mausoleum (until 1999, the Independent Charitable Foundation The Lenin Mausoleum). The statutory goal of the fund is to preserve the Mausoleum of V.I. Lenin as a historical monument and a masterpiece of world architecture and ensure the safety of the body of V.I. Lenin.
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 23 May 2013 15: 58 New
                0
                It is clear, judging by the one who put me at a minus the author of the article an atheist, this is where I need to dance. With great pleasure, I will return that Mr. Volodin did not put brains on the people.
                1. TUMAN
                  TUMAN 23 May 2013 22: 04 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  It is clear, judging by the one who put me at a minus the author of the article an atheist, this is where I need to dance. With great pleasure, I will return that Mr. Volodin did not put brains on the people.

                  You are too nervous about cons, because this is just virtual reality! You are too keen on the game. It seems that your opinion is the most correct and is not in doubt. It seems that you are too keen on virtual "marshaldom", which greatly interferes with your unbiased moderation. Recently, you abuse your position on this site. Dirty dissidents, and spread deliberately false information!
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. alexandr00070
                      alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 33 New
                      +1
                      Quote: brutal true
                      To this it is worth adding that this dear ... ahem ... comrade, along with his few, but high-ranking like-minded people, who, moreover, have more than one account, which is prohibited by the rules, can easily blame anyone to perman destroying the account. With the tacit consent of the local administration. And openly bragging about it. These are the pies here.

                      and after that he spread rot, despite the flags and religion, of Jews on topics related to Israel. although it has long been stated that Jews and Christians are interconnected, even by Testament
                  2. alexandr00070
                    alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 29 New
                    +2
                    Quote: TUMAN
                    You are too nervous about cons, because this is just virtual reality! You are too keen on the game. It seems that your opinion is the most correct and is not in doubt. It seems that you are too keen on virtual "marshaldom", which greatly interferes with your unbiased moderation. Recently, you abuse your position on this site. Dirty dissidents, and spread deliberately false information!

                    Thank you very much, for understanding that I’m interesting, I didn’t delete it, maybe they gave it to me
            2. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 23 May 2013 10: 11 New
              -1
              Quote: Hon
              Then why is the patriarch guarding the FSO ?!

              And why not?


              In accordance with the last subparagraph of paragraph 11 of Chapter 2 of the Regulation on the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation, the FSO:

              64) performs other functions in the established field of activity, if such functions are provided for by federal constitutional laws, federal laws, acts of the President of the Russian Federation and the Government of the Russian Federation.

              It would be enough if this paragraph alone is enough to make sure that the FSO, in the case of an order of the President of the Russian Federation, has enough authority to protect the Patriarch. Although some and other points can well be extended to the need to protect the Patriarch.

              So, what do we get?
              1) The FSO is not only involved in the state protection of state protection facilities in accordance with the Federal Law "On State Protection", but also has other tasks not related to this federal law.
              2) The President has the authority to issue FSO orders, including orders not related to state protection.
              3) Based on his order, the FSO has the authority to protect the Patriarch ....


              There remains the favorite article of anti-clericals, namely, article 14 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, which says that Russia is a secular state.

              But let's be honest - her violation is purely speculative. There is not a single document confirming that protection was granted to the Patriarch not out of purely pragmatic state interests, but because of the religious preferences of the state. On the contrary, the killing of ordinary priests and famous missionaries is a sad reality. Will it be a destabilizing factor for the state to kill the head of the largest in terms of the number of permanent members and persons of nominally “registered” public organizations in Russia, for example, Islamic radicals? I don’t even have doubts. The President, apparently, too.

              It may not like it. This may even serve as an excuse not to vote for a particular presidential candidate. But the fact that this is legal does not cause me any doubt.

              More:
              http://apologetics.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=185:2011-09-0

              8-06-43-08&catid=47:2011-07-27-09-57-37&Itemid=67
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. try
                  try 23 May 2013 16: 23 New
                  -3
                  Well, are you tired of posting such pictures? Photoshop can do the same with you.
                  1. Hon
                    Hon 23 May 2013 16: 27 New
                    +4
                    This is a selection and not photoshop, if you look at historical photos, something like this is constantly found.
            3. Vasily T.
              Vasily T. 23 May 2013 11: 41 New
              +7
              Goofy, but I thought God was saving him. Apparently praying shitty.
              1. Seraph
                Seraph 23 May 2013 15: 50 New
                -6
                God protects the Patriarch. And fools-blasphemers-god-fighters from the commission of stupidities and rudeness are protected by the FSB: what would not go to prison because of their whooper and mischief. Goofy.
                1. Hon
                  Hon 23 May 2013 16: 14 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Seraphim
                  God protects the Patriarch. And fools-blasphemers-god-fighters from the commission of stupidities and rudeness are protected by the FSB: what would not go to prison because of their whooper and mischief. Goofy.

                  vYadat a pickled hash in a censer was laughing author zhzhot not childish)))
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                2. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 36 New
                  0
                  Quote: Seraphim
                  saves the FSB:

                  in general, it should protect citizens from any psychological influence, and not from citizens
            4. not good
              not good 23 May 2013 19: 23 New
              +3
              The patriarch, and there is nowhere to go, is more a political figure. In the USSR, the patriarch was not only provided with protection from the Communists, but also transport, including when traveling over a hill. And regarding the protection of the rights of believers, in the USSR, guns sat down exactly under the article malicious hooliganism, only quietly and without PR.
              1. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 38 New
                0
                Quote: Negoro
                In the USSR, the patriarch was not only provided with protection from the Communists, but also with transport, including when traveling over a hill.

                not only were they Communists, but also KGB personnel, they handed over people for a sweet soul
          2. Per se.
            Per se. 23 May 2013 10: 16 New
            10
            Quote: GreatRussia
            What can be discussed without the text of the law?
            Dear GreatRussia, the precedent itself is important here. Why even highlight someone’s feelings? There is ethics, there is morality, on the basis of which we have created the Constitution and laws. Is that really not enough? What is immoral, not permissible at all, is also not permissible for the feelings of the believer (any religious denomination) or atheist. The fact that the church is separated is how to look, especially judging by how they are already pushing into the army of cult worshipers (see the photo of the priest with a machine gun, "Don't kill!" Above).
            1. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 45 New
              0
              Quote: Per se.
              The fact that the church is separated is how to look, especially judging by how they are already pushing into the army of cult worshipers (see the photo of the priest with a machine gun, "Do not kill!" Above).

              and so, they have no principles
          3. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 15 New
            +1
            Quote: GreatRussia
            It has been separated, and will remain separate.

            yours, as if fed up with it,
        2. Tverichanka
          Tverichanka 23 May 2013 21: 55 New
          +8
          Quote: Per se.
          and faith should be a matter of conscience, without drawing and showing off.

          Absolutely right. Any normal person does not have questions about what his neighbor believes, if this does not entail any inconvenience and does not lead to crime. It makes no difference whether a person goes to church or a mosque if he does not meddle with preaching his way of life to to me. We lived in the USSR more or less amicably, that we didn’t share according to religious preferences. They judged only within the borders of a “bad” or “good” person. You shouldn’t share it now. Leave EVERYONE the right to believe or not to believe. Law on " feelings "- utter stupidity. How to prove legally, how I have feelings. It is impossible to verify this.
    2. Papakiko
      Papakiko 23 May 2013 10: 29 New
      +8
      Quote: wawan
      the law will lead to a split in society

      To the civil war!
      Since the state, represented by the authorities with a lapel, lays down on ordinary citizens, the refusal to restore order in the housing and communal services sector and the desire to "play around" in a completely non-sensitive issue (invented and inflated from abroad) will lead to an explosion.
    3. Vrungel78
      Vrungel78 23 May 2013 10: 45 New
      10
      A similar law is not needed at all. And acts that go out of the ordinary can be qualified by other long-existing and, most importantly, working articles.
      1. not good
        not good 23 May 2013 19: 36 New
        +1
        The law may not be needed, but no one can forbid the deputies to engage in any garbage, they are not elected, they are appointed by the party and, accordingly, they are not responsible to the people, but to the feeding trough.
        1. folds
          folds 24 May 2013 17: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Negoro
          but no one can prohibit the deputy corps from engaging in any garbage,
          - trying to forbid them to offend their feelings of believers in their usefulness to the people :)
    4. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 23 May 2013 12: 03 New
      +7
      Quote: wawan
      Most likely, the adoption of such a crude law will lead to a split in society on a religious basis.


      For this, it was written ...
    5. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 23 May 2013 20: 19 New
      0
      It’s not true - we have very well consolidated Muslims from this law, they will not suffer, but the Orthodox are protected — every trash allows itself to paint any kind of paint ... not on the walls of the church
      1. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 23 May 2013 22: 32 New
        +6
        Quote: Blackgrifon
        but the Orthodox are protected

        My dear, the law does not distinguish confessions. It’s generally about protection of what feelings are not clear. How will you prove feelings? Will you get into my head? I’ll say that my feelings were offended, go and check, is that so? The wording itself contains the feelings of Satanists for example, we will also defend? Do they have the right to believe in Satan? That's just it. You only think about your feelings, and we have many faiths. So such a plague can start that your mother does not grieve. It’s strange that You do not understand this.
        1. taynik
          taynik 28 May 2013 15: 49 New
          0
          It is extremely curious to hear the opinion of the current judges who have to resolve precedents.
        2. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 52 New
          0
          Quote: Tverichanka
          The wording itself is based on a mine. For example, will we protect the feelings of Satanists? Do they have the right to believe in Satan? That's just it. You only think about your feelings, and we have denominations. So such a plague can begin, that mom do not cry. It is strange that you do not understand this.

          That’s exactly what the law does for Christians. And it will work if there are complaints from other faiths, the Baptists or Jehovah’s Witnesses will say that they are being oppressed and not allowed to go on channels, etc. it’s a bomb, what a bomb, it’s just amazing the stupidity of the deputies, but they are led by those people who benefit from the law
    6. taynik
      taynik 28 May 2013 15: 58 New
      0
      http://www.newsru.com/religy/27may2013/crokodile.html
      The publishing house from Rostov-on-Don agreed to edit the children's book taking into account the wishes of Muslims: professing Islam were offended by the fact that the crocodile from Moydodyr in the picture book was holding a page with Arabic script. Muslims considered that the fabulous character of Korney Chukovsky clenches a page torn from the Koran in his fist.
  2. zart_arn
    zart_arn 23 May 2013 07: 41 New
    16
    It seems to me that this law has nothing to do with faith or believers.
    1. not good
      not good 23 May 2013 19: 43 New
      +1
      I agree with you. The country is multiconfessional and there has never been a confrontation, with the exception of radical movements coming from the mound, and all problems have been resolved within the framework of existing legislation. In any edition, the New Law is an implementation of the principle of divide and conquer. And not the fact that the initiators of criminal cases will be believers. This is another trump card in the hands of political strategists, God forbid, that would not have shot.
      1. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 23 May 2013 22: 35 New
        +3
        Quote: Negoro
        God forbid that I didn’t shoot.

        Be sure to shoot. Don’t go to your grandmother. We’ll choke on this. Little will not seem to anyone. And all separatism will seem like fun in kindergarten.
      2. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 28 May 2013 23: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Negoro
        The new law is the implementation of the principle of divide and conquer. And not the fact that the initiators of criminal cases will be believers. This is another trump card in the hands of political strategists, God forbid, that would not have shot.

        that's it, just say Russian to LOW ..............
  3. GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 23 May 2013 07: 49 New
    +3
    All in all, this bill is so crude


    Without the text of the law, a dummy article. It is impossible to determine what the law is all about by the name of the law, let alone judge and draw certain conclusions.


    Christmas is a day off, but Cosmonautics Day is not?

    I honestly did not understand, the author seriously believes that Cosmonautics Day is not a nation-wide, but a purely atheistic holiday? )))
  4. domokl
    domokl 23 May 2013 08: 57 New
    +5
    This is probably the first article that aroused my rejection. Alexei’s bill is too clearly distorting. And the form and construction, and everything else ... It's about insulting feelings in places of religious rites, that is. in temples, mosques and others like them.
    Nobody wants to conduct services in museums where icons are stored. In the same way, one cannot spoil the soul of people in mosques or temples.
    Why didn’t these Pusis go to the mosque? Just because there they would unscrew the Muslims. They would unscrew the civilized laws against them .. or they would stone them ...
    It seems to me that the bill is intended primarily to protect those whose faith does not allow violence of any kind ... Of course, it is necessary to refine it, it is necessary to discuss, but it is also necessary to adopt
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 23 May 2013 09: 03 New
      0
      Quote: domokl
      Likewise, you can not spoil the soul of people

      Vot! Probably more successful and do not put it in this case !!!!
    2. Bekzat
      Bekzat 23 May 2013 11: 40 New
      0
      Greetings to all, for Alexander, the most correct comment, clearly, briefly, sensibly, + Dear !!!
    3. GG2012
      GG2012 23 May 2013 15: 01 New
      +7
      Quote: domokl
      This is probably the first article that aroused my rejection. Aleksey’s bill is distorting too clearly. Both form and construction and everything else ... It’s about insulting feelings in places of religious rites, that is. in temples, mosques and others like them.

      Sorry, I'm interfering ... but Alexey, in his article, does not distort.
      The article is clear and specific those contradictions are highlighted, which, as mines, were laid by foolish deputies, under the influence of the lobby of the Russian Orthodox Church, which has a high influence in the State Duma of the Russian Federation.
      The fact that it is precisely the influence of the lobby of the Russian Orthodox Church on deputies that takes place ... there is no doubt.
      This can be seen on the map of the passage of this bill (http://asozd2.duma.gov.ru/main.nsf/%28SpravkaNew%29?OpenAgent&RN=142303-6&02) ...
      What is the effect?
      Initially, bill No. 142303-6 was openly radical in nature (it was proposed to introduce article 243-1 in the Criminal Code (maximum sanction in the form of imprisonment up to 5 years)
      However, a miracle happened !!! But not religious !!!
      The Presidential Administration had to deal with the influence of the Russian Orthodox Church lobby on the State Duma.
      As a result, the Presidential Administration won, i.e. common sense!
      After the first reading, bill No. 142303-6 underwent a major revision and was radically changed.
      But, it should be noted that the Church lobby did its best ...
      In the second reading, it was decided not to introduce a separate article in the Criminal Code, but to expand the existing one - Art. 148 (obstruction of the exercise of the right to freedom of conscience and religion).
      The maximum sanction of this article provides imprisonment for up to one year.
      As the saying goes ... feel the difference ...

      I’ll add on my own that there would be an opportunity, the Russian Orthodox Church would 100% lobby the Orthodox bonfires to save the soul, for priests secular power is sweeter than God.

      Threat.
      The list of authors of this bill is noteworthy:
      "Member of the Council of the Federation B.I.Shpigel; Deputies of the State Duma A.Yu. Vorobyov, S.V.Zheleznyak, S.A. Popov, V.V. Zhirinovsky, Ya.E. Nilov, N.V. Levichev, E.B. Mizulina, Z.Ya. Rakhmatullina , S. A. Gavrilov, S. P. Obukhov, I. A. Yarovaya, E. N. Senatorova, V. I. Lysakov, A. I. Arshinova, T. K. Aguzarov, M. Yu. Markelov, E .L. Nikolaev

      And first comes ... naturally a Jew ... stop
      "Boris Isaakovich Shpigel - member of the Council of the Federation of the Russian Federation and President of the World Congress of Russian-speaking Jewry (WRCW), the founder of the pharmaceutical company BIOTEK and a very rich Russian Jew, and, finally, just the former father-in-law of the famous singer Baskov ... "

      As they say, ... there is no such initiative in Russia that a Jew cannot lead ...

      Therefore, I agree with the opinion
      Quote: wawan
      Most likely, the adoption of such a crude law will lead to a split in society on a religious basis.
      1. GG2012
        GG2012 23 May 2013 15: 09 New
        0
        I will add ...

        Project No. 142303-6
        in the second reading

        THE FEDERAL LAW

        On amendments to article 148 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and certain legislative acts
        Russian Federation in order to counter insult to religious beliefs and feelings of citizens

        (On introducing amendments to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and certain legislative acts of the Russian Federation in order to counter insulting religious beliefs and feelings of citizens, desecration of objects and objects of religious veneration (pilgrimage), places of religious rites and ceremonies)

        Article 1
        Article 148 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (Collection of Legislation of the Russian Federation, 1996, No. 25, Article 2954; 2003, No. 50, Article 4848; 2010, No. 19, Article 2289; 2011, No. 50, Article 7362) shall be stated in following edition:
        “Article 148. Violation of the right to freedom of conscience and religion
        1. Public actions expressing a clear disrespect for society and committed in order to insult the religious feelings of believers, -
        shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of up to three hundred thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's salary or other income for a period of up to two years, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to two hundred and forty hours, or forced labor for a term of up to one year, or imprisonment for a term of up to one year .
        2. The acts provided for by the first part of this article, committed in places specially designed for worship, other religious rites and ceremonies, -
        shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of up to five hundred thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's wages or other income for a period of up to three years, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to four hundred and eighty hours, or forced labor for a term of up to three years, or imprisonment for the same term from restriction of freedom for up to one year or without it.
        3. Unlawful obstruction of the activity of religious organizations or the performance of religious rites and ceremonies -
        shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of up to three hundred thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's salary or other income for a period of up to two years, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to three hundred and sixty hours, or by correctional labor for a term of up to one year, or by arrest for a term of up to three months.
        4. The acts provided for by the third part of this article, committed:
        a) by a person using his official position;
        b) with the use of violence or with the threat of its use, -
        shall be punished by a fine in the amount of up to two hundred thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's wages or other income for a period of up to one year, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to four hundred and eighty hours, or correctional labor for a term of up to two years, or forced labor for a term of up to one year , or imprisonment for the same term. ".


        President
        Russian Federation

        Taken from here, the official website of the State Duma of the Russian Federation:
        http://asozd2.duma.gov.ru/main.nsf/%28SpravkaNew%29?OpenAgent&RN=142303-6&02
      2. baltika-18
        baltika-18 23 May 2013 17: 00 New
        +6
        Quote: GG2012
        The list of authors of this bill is noteworthy:
        "Member of the Federation Council B.I. Shpigel;

        Great, GG2012.
        It’s clear where the wind is blowing.
        Not everything is so straightforward, but the fact that the consequences will not be very good, so I'm basically sure.
        1. GG2012
          GG2012 23 May 2013 17: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: baltika-18
          It’s clear where the wind is blowing.

          Hello to you! hi .
      3. not good
        not good 23 May 2013 19: 56 New
        0
        Commentary amused ... Jewish lobby of the Russian Orthodox Church laughing GG2012 + definitely good
        1. brutal true
          brutal true 23 May 2013 20: 45 New
          +3
          Quote: Negoro
          The comment was amusing ... The Jewish lobby of the Russian Orthodox Church GG2012 + definitely

          Does the clown want to expose himself? The law is not only the ROC concerns, no?
          1. not good
            not good 23 May 2013 23: 20 New
            0
            A clown is not a clown, but in the Commentary and the answer to WHO this law is needed and it seems to me that the ROC itself has nothing to do with it.
      4. NOBODY EXCEPT US
        NOBODY EXCEPT US 23 May 2013 21: 30 New
        +2
        I completely agree with you the split, and even what, any attempts to exalt one Faith over another will lead to chaos ... it seems that this is done on purpose ..
    4. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka 23 May 2013 22: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: domokl
      insulting feelings in places of worship,

      If we don’t know, there is a cathedral mosque and every year people living there in shock. Have you probably seen what is going on there? And then, the wording about feelings is normal? How can I legally prove or disprove feelings? And in vain do you think that everything will be limited to places of worship. I believe that it is Alexey Volodin who is right. He will be as he writes.
    5. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 29 May 2013 00: 00 New
      0
      Quote: domokl
      .Already too clearly Alexei distorts the bill. And the form and construction and everything else ... It's about insulting feelings in places of religious rites, that is. in temples, mosques and others like them.

      It was hard for you to google,
      "According to the draft, the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation should be supplemented with a new article -" Insulting religious beliefs and feelings of citizens and (or) desecration of objects and objects of religious veneration (pilgrimage), places intended for religious rites and ceremonies. "

      In addition to the fact that now imprisonment will be introduced for insulting religious feelings, fines will increase many times - perhaps 100 times. For example, for the humiliation of services, a fine of up to 300 thousand rubles will be imposed, punishment in the form of compulsory labor for up to 200 hours or imprisonment for up to three years.

      Also, according to the deputies, the legislation should allow effectively suppressing crimes aimed at inciting inter-religious tension, including on the Internet.

      “I believe that the courts should be able to expedite the consideration of such cases in order to suppress the spread of illegal and extremist content on the Web,” said State Duma Deputy Speaker Sergei Zheleznyak, noting that in the conditions of modern society and the huge speed of dissemination of information, such criminal actions "regarding the feelings of believers on the Internet, can lead to tragic consequences and social disasters."
      and this suggests the conclusion that this site will be closed, because if the anti-religious opposition leaves, it will be boring and A.R. will feel like a winner
  5. erased
    erased 23 May 2013 09: 17 New
    12
    When the real reins of government are lost, power can be cast out at will. But she herself violates the constitution, which clearly states - a secular country! Religious institutions are separate from the state! Religious topics cannot be brought to the fore. Neither holidays, nor religious customs such as cutting sheep and mass prayer in the streets, or performing services. Nothing should go beyond the boundaries of ritual territories like pagodas, synagogues, mosques and churches.
    If this happens, then the authorities cannot restore order and release everything at random. And as soon as the case is presented, it will rumble so that all the former will seem nonsense.
    Is it necessary? Apparently yes. But to whom and why? Obviously not to the people.
  6. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 23 May 2013 09: 29 New
    21
    This is not a law protecting the feelings of believers, but a law that discriminates against atheists. Any public statement that there is no god can be interpreted as an insult to the feelings of believers. When believers claim that atheists are pedophiles and homosexuals. this is not an insult. No one will be responsible for this. For example, if I’m an atheist and religious dogmas will flock to my grandson at school, should this not hurt me?
    1. Dimych
      Dimych 23 May 2013 10: 35 New
      16
      I completely agree with you! There is a law on “freedom of conscience,” which equally protects the rights of believers and unbelievers. If a priest with a censer comes to the school where my child is studying, I can demand that he stop his propaganda and get out of the building. With the adoption of these amendments to the Criminal Code, my actions can be regarded as an insult to the feelings of believers. And what will protect my feelings?
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 23 May 2013 10: 45 New
        -5
        Quote: Dimych
        With the adoption of these amendments to the Criminal Code, my actions can be regarded as an insult to the feelings of believers.

        From what text of the law do such grandiose conclusions follow?



        If now a priest with a censer comes to the school where my child is studying, then I can demand that he stop his propaganda and get out of the building


        Federal Law of September 26, 1997 N 125-ФЗ
        "On freedom of conscience and on religious associations"
        Adopted by the State Duma on September 19, 1997
        Approved by the Federation Council on September 24, 1997

        Article 5. Religious education

        4. At the request of parents or persons replacing them, with the consent of the children, students in state and municipal educational institutions, the administration of these institutions in agreement with the relevant local government provides a religious organization with the opportunity to teach children religion outside the scope of the educational program.
        1. not good
          not good 23 May 2013 20: 19 New
          +3
          It’s not clear why GreatRassia was ousted? A man quoted the law without changing or supplementing anything. Minuses in this case are to lawmakers, otherwise it’s impossible to cover with anything to spit.
        2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
          NOBODY EXCEPT US 23 May 2013 21: 35 New
          +2
          the paper will endure everything. there are many laws, but to hell, try to come to school and say that you want to change this and that they will send you far and for a long time to a known address ... I already wrote that we chose OSE in our classroom and teach OKH and all questions of the director are told by a decree from above .....
    2. not good
      not good 23 May 2013 19: 59 New
      +4
      It is necessary to register ATEISM as a religion. Justify it as I BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD. And the symbol of the atheistic faith may look like this: I believe in the absence of Christ, Mohammed, Buddha and any god, and indeed the faith .... am
  7. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 23 May 2013 09: 47 New
    12
    Isn't God protecting believers with their feelings? Isn’t it possible that with such laws people assume the functions of God? It turns out they do not believe in the power of the Lord (since they themselves have to take care of his image)? Or do believers believe not in that God who is able to protect, or do not believe, or believe but not enough?
    For me, such a law should insult believers in this way, since it casts doubt on the power of their God.
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 23 May 2013 15: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Фкенщь13
      Isn't God protecting believers with their feelings? Isn’t it possible that with such laws people assume the functions of God? It turns out they do not believe in the power of the Lord (since they themselves have to take care of his image)?

      Absolutely sober questions!
      I applaud you !!!
    2. brutal true
      brutal true 23 May 2013 21: 04 New
      +4
      Quote: Фкенщь13
      Isn't God protecting believers with their feelings? Isn’t it possible that with such laws people assume the functions of God? It turns out they do not believe in the power of the Lord (since they themselves have to take care of his image)? Or do believers believe not in that God who is able to protect, or do not believe, or believe but not enough?

      It seems to me that the law has nothing to do with God at all. Here is the banal human pride with which, allegedly, the church so selflessly fights, and the elementary protrusion of its belonging to something there ... fanaticism, in short. In general, no one will betray your second cheek, I do not intend to endure and forgive. Such a nonsense ...
    3. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka 23 May 2013 22: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Фкенщь13
      For me, this is how a similar law should offend believers,

      Well done !!!!! Believing Christians need to remember, “Vengeance is mine. I will repay.” But no, they don’t listen to Christ. They themselves want to judge and give.
      1. not good
        not good 23 May 2013 23: 36 New
        +1
        He cannot insult the true Believers. Go to any monastery at least once, and go away from people, talk to at least one old man and you will understand the difference between those who carry the faith in themselves and those who, like our politicians, try to milk it. Deeply the believer will forgive, this fuss is far from him, the believer is not public, unlike politicians, for whom the more screeching and dirt the better.
        1. FunkschNNX
          FunkschNNX 24 May 2013 10: 15 New
          +4
          So I say: something is not logical here, but demonized pilgrims and other fanatics do not touch me either, for me they are sick (and often flawed) people who are not worth taking seriously. But you see something offended believers. For me, this is so commonplace hooliganism and not figs in a secular state for believers to create special conditions.
  8. Crang
    Crang 23 May 2013 09: 58 New
    +1
    All evil is from this. All evil. Eh Nikita Sergeevich would be here.
    1. TUMAN
      TUMAN 23 May 2013 19: 56 New
      +8
      Quote: Krang
      All evil is from this. All evil. Eh Nikita Sergeevich would be here.

      All evil is in religion. Religion simply dulls people, makes them weak-willed, submissive and fanatical. People who can’t think critically. The worst thing is that religions are a way of slavish thinking, this is a type of slavish psychology, these are false priorities, these are searches for the meaning of life that is useless to anyone, these are false psychos diagrams, these are false internal connections. In a word, religion is a gigantic mental and psychological virus that has been living for two thousand years and is fed by those who believe in it!
      1. Crang
        Crang 23 May 2013 20: 45 New
        +1
        That's what I said Fog. In vain minusanul me.
        1. TUMAN
          TUMAN 23 May 2013 21: 13 New
          0
          Quote: Krang
          That's what I said Fog. In vain minusanul me.

          In vain you stomp on me. I put you a plus!
      2. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 23 May 2013 22: 53 New
        +3
        Quote: TUMAN
        and eating those who believe in it!

        Well, that would be so, and even those who do not believe.
      3. lexe
        lexe 24 May 2013 18: 43 New
        0
        Faith is the screening out of the extra fog in a person’s head \ a protective suit if you want. Here, study the structure of the brain from A to Z and teach a person how to live long and fit in the brain as much information as there is in the world - then change the world. You don’t fly into space without a spacesuit?
        In the meantime, do not bother people to live as their ancestors lived and explore this world without rush and fuss.
    2. snek
      snek 23 May 2013 20: 03 New
      0
      Quote: Krang
      All evil is from this. All evil. Eh Nikita Sergeevich would be here.

      Easy:
      1. Crang
        Crang 23 May 2013 20: 27 New
        0
        I meant Khrushchev, not this clown.
        1. snek
          snek 23 May 2013 20: 58 New
          +1
          Then sorry
  9. Pacifist
    Pacifist 23 May 2013 10: 21 New
    19
    Believers cannot be offended. Everything offends them. Even the fact that someone does not believe in what they believe in, as well as the fact that someone believes in another god or gods, and also that someone does not eat like they do not when they, or dresses differently from them ... the list of this nonsense is endless.
    It would be better to pass a law on the protection of reason and logic from delirium and idiocy.
    1. Crang
      Crang 23 May 2013 10: 52 New
      +2
      I say - all evil in the world from them.
      1. Magadan
        Magadan 23 May 2013 17: 50 New
        +2
        Undoubtedly. The fact that Orthodox Russia reached from the Dnieper to the Pacific Ocean is an absolute evil. The only question is evil for whom?
        1. Crang
          Crang 23 May 2013 18: 42 New
          0
          And where does faith come from? The army and the people came. Do not ascribe other people's merits to your account.
    2. lexe
      lexe 23 May 2013 11: 42 New
      -10
      And reason and logic, it just comes from faith. Where did Lomonosov or the logistician of all times and nations study Stalin? And who gave us the alphabet on which you are building your logic now? Or you would still mumble at pagan bonfires) . Faith is the father and mother of human progress, and parents are respected.
      1. Vasily T.
        Vasily T. 23 May 2013 11: 51 New
        +7
        You first read about Slavic paganism and then write. You don’t need so much about your ancestors, they did not mumble in those days, although write about parents correctly.
        1. lexe
          lexe 23 May 2013 13: 05 New
          -2
          And then everyone mumbled to Christianity - and Britons and Germans. In modern Perunian tales, I don’t believe the facts are few. But with Christianity, Russia and our ancestors survived and won for hundreds of years, there are facts, and there were so many enemies there were a lot of enemies. it was like our great-grandfathers had), but you can only be beaten off from the crowd by the crowd. Vera united the birth .. - in some ways we lost, but we gained a lot (life!). We made the Asian crowd friends for many years for no reason a cup of coffee)
          1. Magadan
            Magadan 23 May 2013 18: 15 New
            0
            The facts of the gentlemen of atheists and neopagans are really tight. But fantasies on the topic that the Russians are either from Mars, or Antarctica, are more than enough. And they call all this crap written by someone on a lesson the real world, and we are obscurantists :) You ask "Well, where did you get that alphabet was before Cyril and Methodius" Immediately follows a mysterious expression on the face and an indestructible argument about some "new studies" and the massive falsifications of history by the Blackhounds.
            Well, guys, the Orthodox came up with everything. And Cyril with Methodius and Alexander Nevsky and Fedor Ushakov with Suvorov. They copied everything, but to all the inhabitants who read the “real” documents (they heard from their parents and saw it personally), their mouths were stuck, so much so that even there were no witnesses or rumors that their mouths were stuck. :)
            1. brutal true
              brutal true 23 May 2013 21: 47 New
              +4
              Quote: Magadan
              Immediately follows a mysterious expression on the face and an indestructible argument about some “new research” and mass falsifications of history by “black-eyed”.

              You are clearly a poorly educated person. Have you heard of schismatics, saroobriyadchiki? Why did the split happen? Serious scientists from different fields of science write about Arctida, and not crap. By the way, why is this Bible a serious source in your opinion, and for example, Mahabharata, who is at least ten times older than the Bible, is nonsense? Have you heard about the Avesta? My question is: why of the four "traditional" religions, three are of Abrahamic origin, and in fact are fairy tales of the Semitic tribes, which were imposed as a religion on almost the whole world?
            2. Tverichanka
              Tverichanka 23 May 2013 23: 08 New
              +4
              Quote: Magadan
              where did you get that alphabet was before Cyril and Methodius "

              But didn’t you hear about Novgorod letters? Take an interest at your leisure. Do you know about the Glagolitic? Do you know that she didn’t go to Christianity? Yeah. What does Cyril and Methodius have to do with it.
            3. folds
              folds 24 May 2013 18: 26 New
              +1
              Quote: Magadan
              "Well, where did you get that alphabet was before Cyril and Methodius"

              from: The Life of Methodius and Cyril, Slovenian teachers http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/15666.html "There, in Korsun, St. Constantine found the Gospel and the Psalter written in" Russian letters ", and a man speaking Russian, and began to learn from this person to read and speak his language. " below - more details
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. baltika-18
        baltika-18 23 May 2013 14: 13 New
        0
        Quote: Lexi
        lexe

        I would have missed your comment if it weren’t for this point
        Quote: Lexi
        And reason and logic, it is precisely from faith that flows.

        Quote: Lexi
        And who gave us the alphabet for you

        I can not agree with this, therefore, a minus.
        1. lexe
          lexe 23 May 2013 15: 22 New
          -4
          Rome and Greece saw in the Slavs their shield-protection against nomads. And so that the shield would be worn by us without rejection, we would still take into account our mentality. And Cyril and Methodius did this - which we still celebrate. But you could not take it into account ..- after all, not only Greeks were in the church ..
          Logic ..- but in the holy books it is over the edge. And the first books for the elite of that time were precisely them. And then to accept / not to accept - the effect will still be) That Stalin did not accept, but the effect was even what.
          Well, of course you have to be a linguist and a historian in one person, I do not think my arguments are reinforced concrete because it’s not a monument)
          1. Valery-SPB
            Valery-SPB 23 May 2013 16: 38 New
            +7
            [lexeus] Rome and Greece saw in the Slavs their shield-protection against nomads. And so that the shield would be worn by us without rejection we should take into account our mentality. And Cyril and Methodius did this - which we still celebrate.

            Lexey! A 6th-century historian from the Ostrogoths in the service of Rome did not speak very well of the Slavs, the cowardly pained, the crowd attacked. Possible claims are essentially not said to me, but to Jordan, this historian. In the well-known history and feast of the Church Protection of the Virgin Mary lies the fact of the salvation of the Roman Greeks from the Rus attacked them. So, that with protection ... it's you boldly!
            Cyril and Methodius TAKE THE BASIS ABC, which existed and was previously unknown to them in the vast Black Sea-Azov Rus. It was by no means distributed within Russian borders. The ranks and positions for their services were received not from the Greek Church with the Patriarch of Constantinople, but from the Holy Pope, who praised this service as contributing to the spread of the Faith of Christ.
            1. lexe
              lexe 23 May 2013 18: 32 New
              0
              Well, we introduced the Ostrogoths to the new tactics of warfare), which we received from the nomads, who we fought more from and studied with. Apparently appreciated ... and pitied ourselves for being stupid. But raids then were a common thing) like our shuttles from the 90s - stocked and dump.
              But we celebrate the holiday! Well, there seemed to be no split then from the Pope. The popes had everything globally and they looked far beyond their borders and made moves not only 2 but centuries ahead.
              1. Valery-SPB
                Valery-SPB 24 May 2013 02: 20 New
                0
                Wow you shuttles from the 90s with racketeers from the same 90s called!
                Goths, "our friends", that is. our friends, the chronicler notes on the Lavrentievsky and Ipatievsky lists (see The Tale of Bygone Years). The Jordan I mentioned serves Rome, its origin is Ostrogothic.
                What nomads did you protect against? Are you confusing anything?
                1. lexe
                  lexe 24 May 2013 17: 11 New
                  0
                  But look at the map of those years. What tribes did you most master the lands in Europe? - Slavic. So they wandered hard and en masse in horses. I compared our shuttles with our ancestors - that's all (for fun). Sam shuttled once - it was the case). But racketeers are a tribute - it means a fight according to all the rules first. Not that I mean. And so to say .. material and (well, women’s type brides are urgently needed)) bloodless exhaustion of a potential adversary. Here Moscow was exhausted in the 90s. ) on goods as shuttles could.)))
                  Rome changed allied tribes like gloves. In these gloves, yes, I have a historic gap.
          2. baltika-18
            baltika-18 23 May 2013 16: 44 New
            +3
            Quote: Lexi
            Logic ..- but in the holy books it is over the edge.

            Please provide examples of logic from the holy books.
            1. Magadan
              Magadan 23 May 2013 17: 45 New
              +2
              "Money can be owned, if only you own them, and not they you"
              The same can be said of food and sex and everything else.
              In my opinion, is this logical, or do you disagree?
              The family is a small church where the husband is the head, and sometimes punishment is useful for children to develop in the right direction. In my opinion, is it logical, or are you against it?
              "I do not forbid to teach, but start first with yourself"
              "try not to be idle. Idleness is the mother of all vice and the path to despondency"
              It’s pure that the first thing came to mind. Do you disagree with something?
              1. TUMAN
                TUMAN 23 May 2013 19: 02 New
                +3
                Quote: Magadan
                "Money can be owned, if only you own them, and not they you"

                The essence of all religions is the consolidation of the global order of things, within a large group of people, in favor of a specific ruling group of owners!
                All that is written in religious books is bluffing, fiction and outright lies!
                Certain inclusions, such as “What you sow and reap”, or “Money can be owned only if you own it, and not you”, is non-national and non-religious wisdom. But, interspersing wise ideas in religious texts, makes a religious lie similar to the truth.
                And the use of such an instrument as Faith makes religious false-fanatical conviction that justifies any insanity, such as: GOD wants it, and everything from God. hi
                1. GG2012
                  GG2012 23 May 2013 19: 30 New
                  +2
                  Quote: TUMAN
                  Certain inclusions, such as “What you sow and reap”, or “Money can be owned only if you own it, and not you”, is non-national and non-religious wisdom. But, interspersing wise ideas in religious texts, makes a religious lie similar to the truth.

                  I will supplement you with a colleague hi
                  "The best varieties of Lies come from half-truths."
                  1. not good
                    not good 23 May 2013 23: 54 New
                    +2
                    Religion is primarily a set of moral principles (it doesn’t matter Christianity, Islam, Buddhism) and in all religions a lie is a sin (by the way among the Gentiles too: don’t be a coward, don’t be a liar ...) and if the state manages to weave the basic moral principles, and most importantly it will abide by them, it will live for a long time. A state built on a lie will gobble up itself. An example of the USSR is a little more than 70 years old, and Russia is more than 1000. The law on the feelings of believers is not needed, but if faith helps to survive, do not touch it .A Russian soldier always went into battle with Faith, Tsar and Fatherland, and the great Suvorov emphasized: two days, praying for a third win.
              2. baltika-18
                baltika-18 23 May 2013 19: 23 New
                +3
                Quote: Magadan
                Magadan (1

                Logic is a science to think correctly.
                Quote: Magadan
                Money can be owned only if you own it, and not they you

                A fundamental mistake, money is built into the value that you own. Money is just the equivalent of an exchange, it has no value. Substitution of concepts began apparently in the old days. Money is used, not owned.
                Quote: Magadan
                The family is a small church where the husband is the head, and sometimes punishment is useful for children to develop in the right direction. In my opinion, is it logical, or are you against it?

                It’s debatable, what’s the big church? If the church is at all, then its god is headed, according to your idea of ​​logic, then let him punish his family, his church, and the rest have nothing to do with it.
                Quote: Magadan
                I do not forbid to teach, but start first with yourself

                Someone does not prohibit teaching, but offers to start with oneself. What to start? Education? I have learned it myself, teach others. This means. If so, then it’s acceptable.
                Quote: Magadan
                Idleness is the mother of all vice and the path to despondency

                Well, this is generally stupid. To say that all human vices from idleness does not lend itself to any logic. Greed, gluttony, desire to commit adultery with women, is it from idleness? A man had nothing to do, so he changed his homeland. Logic from holy sources .....
            2. lexe
              lexe 23 May 2013 18: 58 New
              0
              Respectfully, but I’m not a preacher. Who is interested in letting him open and revere? I’m asking myself a question - how did paganism, which was extremely harsh in its views, adopted Christianity?
              1. Tverichanka
                Tverichanka 23 May 2013 23: 30 New
                +2
                Quote: Lexi
                a paganism is extremely harsh in their views

                This is your main mistake. Paganism never had any rigidity in its beliefs. On the contrary. They treated alien gods without any prejudice. The Romans of pre-Christian times included gods of conquered peoples in their pantheon, built temples to these gods. since some deity protects this people, it (the deity) is no worse than Jupiter. Therefore, it was possible for Christianity to appear, which at first was treated with inherent tolerance. Well, people believe Christ, well, they have the right .... You know vopros.A as a result of making the wrong conclusions.
                1. lexe
                  lexe 24 May 2013 15: 03 New
                  -1
                  reacted with inherent tolerance.
                  Are you talking about demonstrative executions in arenas? Under the whistle of the crowd in the form of a circus? -Right tolerance.
                  Well, you know the question deeply, tell me why did Prince Olga adopt Christianity in Russia? But she was tough in her liking. Conclusions .. And what conclusions? Here is the “new faith” -communism was made in a hurry, they knew that such a sacrifice as in Christianity to achieve it doesn’t work, then the scoops don’t have it. It was a long time ago, but there aren’t enough clever archaeologists, here are a lot of writers.)
      4. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 23 May 2013 23: 03 New
        +5
        Quote: Lexi
        this is father and mate

        And let’s give up on great-grandfathers. It may be easy for you, but I don’t feel like it. And whatever one may say, our roots go back to paganism (some kind of absurd word). And yours including. And about-until Orthodox Russia reached -Do not confuse warm with yellow. Different people lived in Russia, not only Christians. And they fought and plowed and built EVERYTHING !!!!! Do not pull a blanket over you.
        1. lexe
          lexe 24 May 2013 15: 40 New
          0
          Father and mother
          EVERYTHING !!! - under the scepter of the Orthodox Tsar: both Christians and Muslims completely agree with you without any international, but with simple respect for each other.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. folds
        folds 24 May 2013 18: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Lexi
        And who gave us the alphabet on which you are now building your logic?

        "Soon the emperor called both holy brothers from the monastery and sent them to the Khazars for the gospel sermon. On the way they stopped for a while in the city of Korsun, preparing for the sermon. There the holy brothers miraculously gained the relics of the holy martyr Clement, Pope of Rome (Comm. 25 November / December 8.) In Korsun, St. Konstantin found the Gospel and the Psalter written in “Russian letters” and a person who spoke Russian, and began to learn from this person to read and speak his language.
        Source: http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/15666.html
        There really is another paragraph there that you are probably hinting at:
        “Soon the emissaries from the Moravian prince Rostislav, oppressed by the German bishops, came to the emperor with a request to send teachers to Moravia who could preach in the native language of the Slavs. The emperor called St. Constantine and told him:“ You need to go there, because no one is better than you this will not do it. ”Saint Konstantin, with fasting and prayer, embarked on a new feat. With the help of his brother Saint Methodius and the disciples of Gorazd, Clement, Savva, Naum and Angelar, he composed the Slavic alphabet and translated the books into Slavic Without which it could not have committed worship:. Gospel, the Apostle, the Psalter, and selected service It was in the year 863 ".
        As far as I understand, this is the official text of the life of the saints? That is, first "found the Gospel and Psalter written in" Russian letters ", and a person who speaks Russian, and began to learn from this person to read and speak his language" and then "composed the Slavic alphabet and translated the books into Slavic, without which the Divine Service could not be performed: the Gospel, the Apostle, the Psalter and selected services "
        1. lexe
          lexe 24 May 2013 21: 35 New
          -1
          With all due respect to my Slavic roots, RUSSIA DOES NOT! time for pagan delights. We have Russian TIK-TAK time! And Stalinism-communism raised the Russian people to Calvary. Only the Orthodox faith with the sovereign, and the rest is without options. For who has not proven himself to be time. And whoever does not understand this is just a traitor. 70 -80% of Russians believe in God - so choose ...
    3. Magadan
      Magadan 23 May 2013 17: 49 New
      +3
      Just the opposite. It is not possible to insult a believer. Anger is only permissible if the shrine or the fatherland is offended.
    4. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka 23 May 2013 22: 56 New
      +4
      Quote: Pacifist
      It would be better to pass a law on the protection of reason and logic from delirium and idiocy.

      Plus 100500 ... And cast your statement in granite!
  10. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 23 May 2013 10: 29 New
    +5
    It is enough to classify the insult of religious feelings as an administrative, not not a criminal offense, for feelings are a concept that can be interpreted in different ways, as you like and most likely will happen. Legislation in general is the weakest link in the Russian state. Here, in terms of legislation, it makes sense to turn to the experience of foreign countries, in particular European ones, which are usually based on the Napoleon Code, which is distinguished by clarity of interpretations and consistency. elstvo in order to do that, and feelings of believers, I think for kollichestvom other problems may podozhdat.A can hit the other extreme and create a body that will monitor the religious feelings of the population, call it the Holy Inquisition and start to kindle fires.
  11. krez-74
    krez-74 23 May 2013 10: 36 New
    +6
    Any insolent act should be severely punished, regardless of whether it offended believers or non-believers !!!
    And yet, here are some wise men with bile, affect the inhabitants of the North Caucasus, rowing them all under one comb ... So for these crazy ones, there live a huge number of those, most of whom are in no way radical, in no way religious and not fanatical, and moreover, no less educated and no less empathize because of the negative developments in the country! It’s just that the essence of the vile is such that it catches the eye more, and the vile is present in all peoples and religions, and in all districts of Russia, this vile in sufficient quantity!
    1. Crang
      Crang 23 May 2013 20: 47 New
      -3
      Is it true?
  12. Vrungel78
    Vrungel78 23 May 2013 10: 40 New
    13
    Situation. I am an unbeliever. I argue with a believer (of any faith). He says, "God is." I say, "There is no God." I insult his feelings, he is mine, no. Interesting.
    1. Crang
      Crang 23 May 2013 10: 54 New
      +1
      And you prove in court that he also insulted your feelings. You believe that there is no Allah, and some kind of hell impudently insults your feelings.
    2. Valery-SPB
      Valery-SPB 23 May 2013 18: 05 New
      +4
      No place on this topic, oh well. Someone committed a crime. He is being judged. Relying on the truth of the church books and not contesting anything in them, the defendant claims that he committed the crime under the influence of the devil spells, imposed in defiance of his own life-affirming position, white and fluffy. According to all the rules of sentencing, the judge must state in the sentence the reasons why he accepted or rejected certain evidence, in particular the testimony of the defendant.
      And how will it sound? I can not imagine. And if the defendant is a believer? After all, the denial of the devil (the angel who bears the light and cast out by Jahava (the hosts) as the antipode of God, also implies the denial of the latter. If the judge ruled on a fair and legal sentence secular the rules, but insulted the feelings of the believing defendant! Should the judge say there is no god? Who will judge the judge?
    3. not good
      not good 24 May 2013 00: 01 New
      0
      The Papuans do not know the electricity, which does not prevent the light bulb from burning, and the dark soul causes compassion in the believer. And in general: do not judge, but you will not be judged.
    4. consul
      consul 24 May 2013 11: 09 New
      0
      Quote: Vrungel78



      Yes, no, do not insult, neither from the spiritual nor from the legal point of view. From the spiritual, you have free will, from the legal one, freedom of religion. You have chosen the faith of unbelief with your free will, everything is clear and understandable.
  13. JonnyT
    JonnyT 23 May 2013 10: 40 New
    +3
    how to be that? everyone’s feelings are different, you won’t please everyone!

    It is necessary to read the tex of the law, then draw conclusions. The name is also so loud and provocative that they give all svanidze and gozmans started to speculate on this topic?
    Will this law not be the reason for the strengthening of extremism in the Russian Federation? some may be offended that other people go without a hijab and eat fat!
    I sometimes eat fat - what now I insult Muslims?
    If the wording of this law is vague, it will bring nothing except complications!
    And you know what laws you get - with a bunch of loopholes and ambiguous language (especially where it comes to money)
    It's time to drive damned traitors from the echelons of power to the neck !!!!!
  14. vezunchik
    vezunchik 23 May 2013 10: 44 New
    +3
    LONDON, May 23 - RIA Novosti, Denis Voroshilov. Clashes between police and activists of the far-right organization of the Defense League of England took place in the London Woolich area after the murder of two British Islamists on Wednesday by the British military, Sky News reported.
    On Wednesday evening, after reports of the terrorist attack, two attacks on mosques also occurred in the UK. In Essex, a 43-year-old man burst into a mosque in Braintree with a knife and tried to set it on fire. The attacker was arrested, no one was hurt. In Kent, another man tried to damage a Giligam mosque. Police said he was also detained.
    As previously reported, on Wednesday afternoon, two malefactors, presumably Islamists, one of whom was black, killed a soldier in the Vulich region. The police tried to detain them, but faced armed resistance.
    The incident was considered a “politically motivated Islamist attack,” official sources said the attackers shouted “Allahu akbar” and filmed their attack on cameras. According to British Prime Minister David Cameron, there is evidence that the incident was a terrorist attack.
    AND IF IT HAPPENED IN RUSSIA? WHICH HI WOULD RAISE THE WEST AND ENGLAND IN PARTICULAR?
  15. dmb
    dmb 23 May 2013 11: 07 New
    14
    Absolutely logical article. Proponents of the law "press" on emotions, not on meaning. In the given photo selection, only a frame with Ukrainian fools will fall under the effect of this law. And he will not fall, for the country is different. In the Criminal Code of the Soviet era there was an excellent article "hooliganism" for these occasions. She exists now. But the “democratic” changes introduced into it made her “toothless”. Let me remind you of the Soviet “sound”: Hooliganism — deliberate actions grossly violating public order and expressing clear disrespect for society. This wording perfectly fits both the behavior of sluts in the Temple and the behavior of bastards at the monuments. In principle, Mr. Gozman, with his theses on the SS and SMERSH, could well fall under its action.
    1. folds
      folds 24 May 2013 18: 51 New
      +1
      and instead of the “protest” spread all over the world, we get the usual “hooligan” not interesting to anyone (I'm talking about these moronic women). And one can see the attitude of the state towards fools - not to invent new laws for their sake, but socially useful work somewhere in nursing homes for two years until complete assimilation - people cannot be spoiled in the soul, whether they are believers or not. Well, too much attention to this stink from all sides.
  16. vkrav
    vkrav 23 May 2013 11: 10 New
    +6
    Damn, and this is a secular state ??? What next? The law on compulsory religion?
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 23 May 2013 11: 15 New
      -8
      Quote: vkrav
      Damn, and this is a secular state ??? What next? The law on compulsory religion?

      As it was, it will remain so. Nobody is going to change the constitution.
      Maybe you read the text of the law? No one here showed his text. But the noise and emotions ....
    2. try
      try 23 May 2013 15: 52 New
      +4
      it used to be a mandatory religion - atheism for 70 years. but that is not the question. the question is that all sorts of girls do not crap in holy places for someone and do not call it a performance. and they didn’t saw crosses on the graves. it’s only the beginning. impunity breeds even more debauchery, both in thoughts and deeds.
      1. fartfraer
        fartfraer 23 May 2013 16: 42 New
        +6
        girls were punished even without this law. There are articles in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation on which they were attracted. For what, then, this law was adopted, that’s the question. Now, having offended the feelings of an atheist, you can be held responsible for one article, and the feelings of a believer for two) apparently this is called secular state and equality of citizens before the law.
        further, the statement "there is no God" (regardless of what it is called-Allah, Buddha, Jehovah, or whatever else) is an insult? After all, if you look, if I think that there is no God, then I mean that you believe in something that is not .consequentially, it is possible to develop the idea to what I meant by this statement that all believers are "not smart enough" and unprovenly believe in various conjectures. Can this offend someone? I think yes. Next, imagine the situation of the second coming of Jesus. He enters the temple and sees .. trade in candles and crosses, icons and etc. He repeats his ancient actions and throws the merchants out of the temple. In accordance with the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, he receives two articles and is about 6 years old (sometimes they give less for our murder), he falls into the zone where the "believers" are completely with crosses on their chest. omitted from there (as one of the options), and after the Christians ignore him with a clear conscience, for how can there be a son of God with a “cock” (I apologize for the slang) you can bring such options offhand, but those who think themselves know, and believers do not need arguments
        1. Hon
          Hon 23 May 2013 16: 52 New
          0
          Quote: fartfraer
          girls were punished even without this law. There are articles in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation on which they were attracted. For what then this law was adopted, that’s the question.

          The fact is that the sentence imposed on the guns is illegal, because they did not commit a criminal offense at all, it was an administrative offense. Thus, in order for the future, the legal position of the prosecution in the event of a repetition of such was justified, this law is adopted.
          1. fartfraer
            fartfraer 23 May 2013 17: 00 New
            +1
            ) it just turns out that insulting an atheist citizen is an administrator, and insulting a believing citizen is a crime? great, the constitution has never been violated. how do you think, and if a person who believes in science is offended by the assertion that God created the earth, etc. according to the text of the bible, then he has a chance to receive moral compensation from the patriarch or the chief mullah? and even put them in jail? a rhetorical question, you can not answer
            1. not good
              not good 24 May 2013 00: 12 New
              +1
              Pusi insulted the master of Moscow, if they had danced in some sort of village church, they would not have had anything. And in case of law, it is enough to return articles for hooliganism from the Criminal Code of the USSR.
  17. Gato
    Gato 23 May 2013 11: 48 New
    18
    “Insulting feelings” is a completely idiotic and not at all legal term. Under it, you can bring anything you want. Well, just absolutely everything! For instance:
    - advertising of vodka and beer offends the feelings of those who quit drinking and coded (and does moral damage!)))
    - cowards with American symbols insult the feelings of patriots;
    - tall buildings, pipes, poles offend the feelings of feminists and cause them another sense of inferiority;
    - poor grades offend schoolchildren’s feelings;
    - Much has been said above about fat;
    - my, for example, feelings (like a former military man) are offended by red socks, punk haiers, immense bellies, piercings in all places, and generally the manner of civilians to start moving from the right leg :)
    But where does the law !!? Do lawmakers need to do anything else? Everything is fine with us, it remains only to take care of the "insult to the senses"?
    1. Wawan
      Wawan 23 May 2013 12: 14 New
      +4
      Well said!
  18. Goldkonstantin
    Goldkonstantin 23 May 2013 13: 01 New
    -9
    So long ago it was time to pass a similar law! So all sorts of throats could not!
    1. fartfraer
      fartfraer 23 May 2013 16: 47 New
      +4
      you just insulted God with your intolerance, breaking the commandment "love your neighbor .."
      1. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 23 May 2013 23: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: fartfraer
        breaking the commandment "love your neighbor

        And yet, “Love your enemies. For what a merit to love, those who love you.” And about patience, humility, the blessing of those who hate and persecute, I am generally silent. Even on the forum we can conclude HOW these dogmas are respected. And in life ... .
  19. Svyatoslav72
    Svyatoslav72 23 May 2013 14: 03 New
    +4
    The phrase touches me the most religious feeling of believers, moreover, no one can explain what this RAVE it means and why it needs to be protected, are they also trying to prove that it is right ?!
    I’ll start from the very beginning, namely, in order to understand such things and phenomena one must be a philosopher. To give them an assessment and predict the consequences, one must understand the psychology of individuals and their mass stereotyped behavior (to be a psychologist). To promote such laws, or to prevent them, one must be an ideologist. Something I didn’t see, I didn’t even see the likeness of Politicians who can clearly explain the basic goals and objectives, both State and National (these concepts are often misinterpreted and misused).
    I will not make out which religion came to us from where (thanks to whom and for what) and what it degenerated into. I will say one thing: -What is being promoted as Religion (Christianity, Muslimism, Catalism), this is an old way of brainwashing, and controlling the masses, has nothing to do with the basic values ​​that were originally laid down and formed the Faith of one person and his community. Moreover, these religious movements have the same roots - Jewish. So those who care about the purity of the Faith are the Saints in .... the eleventh generation.
    What is Faith !? Faith is a way of life of thoughts and actions, the moral and ethical essence of man. What is - Religion !? Religion is a system of rituals, idols, and stereotypes for managing and submitting to the Desires of the Leaders.
    If Faith makes people better, then Religion forms an easily-controlled and controlled herd of them.
    Feeling is generally a funny phenomenon, some people feel more than others and everyone reacts differently to this. By the way! Religious "zeal" is more often a psychological need or dependence emanating from mental or physical weakness. Religious aggression is a form of self-affirmation of “Our Right” over “Your Laws”, in other words, a redistribution of the existing situation by force.
    This law does not establish rules and frameworks for the community; it incites Religious chauvinism which will inevitably lead to Religious Fascism. AND! this will lead to reprisals against those who disagree, and an armed conflict that is unyielding. I am not against Russian Fascism, I am not against Faith in the Russian Nation, but I am against Religious Fraudsters and the lack of a National-State orientation.
    1. Magadan
      Magadan 23 May 2013 17: 35 New
      +1
      Excuse me, but Alexander Suvorov, Fedor Ushakov, Mikhail Lomonosov, Fedor Dostoevsky and Alexander Pushkin - is this also a flock of chtoli? Well, if these great people who were deeply Orthodox believers "herd", then I am with this "herd."
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 23 May 2013 19: 35 New
        +3
        Quote: Magadan
        Excuse me, but Alexander Suvorov, Fedor Ushakov, Mikhail Lomonosov, Fedor Dostoevsky and Alexander Pushkin - is this also a flock of chtoli? Well, if these great people who were deeply Orthodox believers "herd", then I am with this "herd."

        Magadan you distort in this case.
      2. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 23 May 2013 23: 50 New
        +3
        Quote: Magadan
        Alexander Pushkin -

        Just do not need “Our All” to be reckoned among the faithful. Although Veresaeva read “Pushkin in Life”, then you’ll flail. He did not observe anything prescribed and led a very free life .... Dostoevsky, in spite of him statements about Christianity, too, in life was very far from complying with the commandments .... No need to give such examples, they already filled their teeth. It's about the law. So it's closer to the topic.
        1. consul
          consul 24 May 2013 11: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Tverichanka
          Quote: Magadan
          Alexander Pushkin -

          Just do not need “Our All” to be reckoned among the faithful. Although Veresaeva read “Pushkin in Life”, then you’ll flail. He did not observe anything prescribed and led a very free life .... Dostoevsky, in spite of him statements about Christianity, too, in life was very far from complying with the commandments .... No need to give such examples, they already filled their teeth. It's about the law. So it's closer to the topic.

          Only on his deathbed did the fleet flee and call for the priest. Dostoevsky was (was) a freethinker until a certain moment (!).
          1. Crang
            Crang 24 May 2013 12: 19 New
            -1
            This is called crap. This is normal. This often happens.
            1. consul
              consul 24 May 2013 12: 50 New
              +1
              Quote: Krang
              This is called crap. This is normal. This often happens.

              I have to see a lot of dying and dead, you either do not understand what you are writing about or are young, I'm sorry.
              1. Crang
                Crang 24 May 2013 12: 55 New
                -1
                I didn’t have much, but I had to. Well I’ll say less brutally - scared. This is normal.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. consul
        consul 24 May 2013 11: 54 New
        -1
        Quote: Magadan
        Excuse me, but Alexander Suvorov, Fedor Ushakov, Mikhail Lomonosov, Fedor Dostoevsky and Alexander Pushkin - is this also a flock of chtoli? Well, if these great people who were deeply Orthodox believers "herd", then I am with this "herd."

        A.V.Suvorov is the author of the penitential canon (not Great), found in any Orthodox prayer book.
        People, when they write about the "herd" and similar offensive things, forget that their grandfathers, great-grandfathers, great-great-grandfathers, etc. thus they are just offended, or maybe they consider their ancestors only those (and the smartest, freest, generally the very ....) who lived before the adoption of Christianity by Russia. Only the same ancestors, in a fairly short the term was freely accepted by Christ. And this is confirmed by the former rule of law in Russia, a prince who would not please the people would fly out of Kiev with noise.
        The general tone of the statements (exclusively regarding the Orthodox Church) allows us to conclude that Western propaganda is doing its job and is doing it skillfully.
        1. Crang
          Crang 24 May 2013 12: 23 New
          +1
          She does nothing. No Soviet propaganda can take us Soviet people. What is good and what is bad we know without wise old men in robes. The discussion arose mainly around arrogant and aggressive statements about atheist believers, by some "Internet missionaries." The result is quite expected. Mostly aggression comes of course from Islam.
    2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US 23 May 2013 21: 49 New
      +3
      Svyatoslav 72 ...... I subscribe to your every word .....
  20. Rrv
    Rrv 23 May 2013 14: 35 New
    +2
    -------------------------------------------------- ----
    1. Magadan
      Magadan 23 May 2013 18: 05 New
      -6
      The real world is a real science (such as physics, not psychiatry with philosophy) and real scientists who invented something real, such as a light bulb or discovered real laws, such as universal gravitation.
      So, I’m grieving you: all real scientists were believers: Newton, Pascal, Amper, Lomonosov, Edison, Pasteur, Einstein, Tsiolkovsky, Kure, etc. But boltologists of different types like Voltaire and Goldbach only knew how to scratch their tongues. And of the "great" atheists were Lenin and Trotsky.
      So you’re right, the real world insults “believers” like you ... believers that life was born of stone, stone came from emptiness, legs of whales grew up and people were monkeys. And even if the wind blows, then the windows in the houses themselves will be inserted.
      Have you heard anything about the second law of thermodynamics? Does your "real" world happen to live on TV alone?
      Speaking of TV, invented by a Russian emigrant to the United States. Orthodox believers. The first televised image in history is the Orthodox cross.
      So much for the "real world"
      1. Hon
        Hon 23 May 2013 19: 01 New
        +1
        Thomas Edison never hid his atheistic views !!! But Albert Einstein when they tried to find out whether he was a believer, deliberately confused everyone. Some argue that Einstein believed in the existence of God, others call him an atheist. Both those and others used the words of the great scientist to confirm their point of view.
      2. Rrv
        Rrv 23 May 2013 20: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Magadan
        The real world is a real science (such as physics, not psychiatry with philosophy)

        I recommend that you take an interest in the methods used by clinical psychology and psychiatry, and no longer confuse them with journal psychology.

        So, I’m grieving you: all real scientists were believers: Newton, Pascal, Amper, Lomonosov, Edison, Pasteur, Einstein, Tsiolkovsky, Kure, etc.

        Edison and Einstein are atheists, the rest, judging by their statements, are theists. If we take into account that atheism in those days was still punishable, we divide by 2.

        And of the "great" atheists were Lenin and Trotsky

        Right And how not to relate to them - one cannot but admit that they had no less influence on the world than the character from Nazareth.

        So you’re right, the real world insults “believers” like you ... believers that life was born of stone, stone came from emptiness, legs of whales grew up and people were monkeys.

        I agree - in places it sounds no less delusional than religious stories. smile
        Nevertheless, judging by your reaction, the real world offends you.

        About the TV smiled, thanks. laughing
        1. Rrv
          Rrv 23 May 2013 20: 22 New
          +2
          ------------------------
          1. Rrv
            Rrv 23 May 2013 20: 23 New
            +3
            ----------------------
      3. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 23 May 2013 23: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: Magadan
        all real scholars were believers:

        Again wrong. They talked about the CREATOR, not about Christ. That is, the world is so complicated that it suggests that the CREATOR must exist. But this is not what you are trying to put into your statements. The Creator of the Universe in its entirety and diversity, with an incredible number of worlds and galaxies, it’s not up to you personally how much you pray to him. Our planet is just a speck of dust in the universe, and on this speck of dust people live and everyone asks for something. So what is put into the concept God from great scientists did not reflect your understanding God. I have not really upset you?
    2. Seraph
      Seraph 24 May 2013 03: 15 New
      -1
      do not persecute us for our faith.
      live calmly
  21. Valery-SPB
    Valery-SPB 23 May 2013 14: 59 New
    +9
    My favorite question is for those who boast of their Orthodoxy (I have nothing against people in church, I mean those for whom it is fashion, posing or narcissism). I usually ask about Patriarch Tikhon, the first one under Soviet rule who was repressed. And I ask, who was before him? Someone whom you recall about the seizure of church values ​​by the Soviet government, recalls, but with Patriarch Andrian ... Before Tikhon, Andrian was the last. Until 1700. And then 217 years there was no patriarchate in Russia, and the Holy Synod with the chief prosecutor acted. The church was built into the administrative system of power and, alas, was used to this position. This state of “embeddedness” continues even now, not without reason the initiation of the adoption of the law came from the church fathers.
    Bad thoughts appear, and what will happen when the law is adopted. Okay, I agree with the punishment of offenders in church buildings. However, in a number of festivities there are processions in the territories of FULLY SECULAR!
    There are questions.
    Do I have the right to read publicly the Old Russian annals. For example, the legend of the Mamayev Massacre. Unfairly respond there, WITH THE INSURANCE OF THE SENSE OF BELIEVERS, our ancestors about the faith of a stranger, Mohammed. But the same thing about the faith of the damned schismatics!
    Originally worshiped in Russia, Perun, Dazhdbog, Veles and others. We remember that Vladimir baptized not only with water, but also with fire and sword. To date, there are people who recognize the ancient Slavic gods. Is a priest of the Greek Catholic, Orthodox church obligated to condemn paganism by position? And how, in this case, should the relevant authorities evaluate the actions of any priest? Will they plant or not?
    1. Magadan
      Magadan 23 May 2013 17: 32 New
      0
      I doubt that the initiation of this law comes from the Church. Rather, it is some kind of provocation. Orthodoxy does not need such protection. Quite the contrary, we Orthodox in persecution and reproach are tempered, remember the 20th century at least. And then some chtoli chunks of a church suddenly became scary?
      I am afraid this law is more likely to benefit any sectarians and Wahhabis who have nothing to say in the discussion, will now cling to words and threaten the court
      1. Rrv
        Rrv 23 May 2013 20: 19 New
        +4
        Magadan, you do not know by chance - why didn’t you re-sanctify after the girls of the HHS?
  22. Rrv
    Rrv 23 May 2013 15: 53 New
    +1
    ---------------------------
  23. gregor6549
    gregor6549 23 May 2013 16: 37 New
    +6
    The legal protection of believers is needed, but who objects. But even more legal and practical protection is needed from “overly” believers. Those. normal believing Muslims, Jews and other different Swedes need to be protected. But as soon as they decide to force their faith on others, the best defense of others will be to apply the same law in the opposite direction. Those. the law should be like a stick. About two ends.
  24. Good fellow
    Good fellow 23 May 2013 17: 16 New
    +3
    An insult to feelings .... everything is so, everything is right. But if such a “booze” had gone along with the adoption of such laws, then they could have taken care of the majority, not dividing people into confessions and atheists, not only defending the right to faith or lack thereof, we have secular state, and that’s all in the moral, ethical direction, we have a complete gap, and human feelings are violated to a much greater extent: this is absolute mate on the streets, in the crowd, with children, these are drunken faces, this is garbage on the ground ... lack of respect not only to the old people, but also, in principle, to the neighbor, I think it hurts not only me, but most of us. I myself do not belong to religion, but I still respect the feelings and views of people and I myself am offended by the tricks of the radicals who smash the crosses, temples, symbols, religions of my multinational people, historical architectural monuments, our heritage. Our roots. Although not ready to listen to mantras about the existence of God and Santa Claus, this is an intimate affair of each of us. Education in decline. Morality and conscience need to be raised. Dignity. Respect.
    1. Seraph
      Seraph 23 May 2013 17: 33 New
      -1
      I agree with you. I, too, am not ready to listen to the atheist creed about the absence of God. Well, this is a personal matter. But the mat, dirt, rudeness, banditry should be punished.
  25. Magadan
    Magadan 23 May 2013 17: 26 New
    -2
    Opponents of the Church have already been given a thousand times examples that all the great Russians were deep-believers: Dmitry Donskoy, Alexander Nevsky, Fedor Ushakov, Mikhail Lomonosov, Tsiolkovsky, Popov, Pirogov, Dostoevsky, Pushkin, etc.
    You, gentlemen, atheists whom you can give us as an example, in order to reinforce your verbiage with real examples / evidence. What are your authorities?
    They also told you that Russia owes absolutely all the good that we have to Orthodoxy. Yes, including oil, which in Siberia, which was discovered and mastered by the Cossacks, who were 100% Orthodox (others were not taken there).
    So, all our military victories, scientific achievements, all our cultural heritage and even our money (so far we live from natural resources) - all thanks to our Orthodox ancestors. And from your godless idols such as Lenin and Trotsky - continuous revolution and homosexuality.
    So they would be silent modestly or give their own examples, evidence of how good godlessness is for Russia.
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 23 May 2013 17: 35 New
      +7
      Quote: Magadan
      You, gentlemen, atheists whom you can give us as an example, in order to reinforce your verbiage with real examples / evidence. What are your authorities?

      Comrade Stalin, the great Korolev, Yuri Gagarin, ..., etc. - these are not authorities for you ??? !!!
      Or, too, immediately write them in the homosexual ??? !!!

      As you have Christians, everything is simple, if you do not pray to the Jewish God, it means a fagot, sodomy ... then you need to plant, destroy ...

      Still right Wawan, in his comment:
      Quote: wawan
      Most likely, the adoption of such a crude law will lead to a split in society on a religious basis.


      Here it is a religious split ...
      1. Hon
        Hon 23 May 2013 18: 34 New
        -3
        Quote: GG2012
        Comrade Stalin

        Dzhugashvili was still a believer, there is evidence of this. However, the HHS was blown up precisely under him. In addition, he was clearly passionate about mysticism, that is, vryatli he adhered to Orthodoxy.
        1. Rrv
          Rrv 23 May 2013 20: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Hon
          Quote: GG2012
          Comrade Stalin

          Dzhugashvili was still a believer, there is evidence of this. However, the HHS was blown up precisely under him. In addition, he was clearly passionate about mysticism, that is, vryatli he adhered to Orthodoxy.


          Is there anything other than myths about flights of icons over Moscow, visits to sick women, and fairy tales on Ren TV and TV3 about Stalin's mysticism that are DOCUMENTALLY documented?
          1. Hon
            Hon 23 May 2013 21: 13 New
            -2
            No, this follows from the memoirs of his relatives, daughter and adopted son, who seems to be still alive.
            1. Rrv
              Rrv 23 May 2013 21: 50 New
              0
              Quote: Hon
              No, this follows from the memoirs of his relatives, daughter and adopted son, who seems to be still alive.


              Such memories, like Petrov’s memories of Gagarin, could have been corny paid, but let's say they are true.
              The question arises - are these memories of Stalin’s own confession of religiosity and his performance of any rites, or subjective interpretations of some recollecting actions that can be called religiousness with a stretch?

              PS Do not tell me - where exactly can you get acquainted with these memories?
            2. Tverichanka
              Tverichanka 24 May 2013 00: 13 New
              -1
              Quote: Hon
              memories of his loved ones, daughter

              What personal recollections of your daughter did you read? Twenty letters to a friend? And where is there about his faith? Do not beat rubbish.
        2. Tverichanka
          Tverichanka 24 May 2013 00: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Hon
          believers, there is evidence

          Docks on the table. Not only bullshit about Matron, but DOCUMENTARY evidence. Memoirs of eyewitnesses, references to faith in correspondence, etc. ... Even Trotsky, hanging on Stalin all conceivable and unthinkable dogs, I never remembered this ... .What you carry.
      2. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 23 May 2013 20: 30 New
        -1
        Quote: GG2012
        Comrade Stalin, the great Korolev, Yuri Gagarin, ...

        One of their main eyewitnesses told about some episodes of the interaction between the Orthodox Church and the Russian cosmonautics in an interview with the Interfax-Religion portal Associate Professor Colonel Valentin Petrov, Air Force Academy named after Yu.A. Gagarin.


        - Valentin Vasilyevich, you were close friends with Yuri Gagarin. The first astronaut, according to some stories, was a believer, although he did not advertise this. Is it possible to say that the Orthodox faith was another unspoken but connecting link of your friendship — young Soviet pilots in those difficult years of state atheism for the Church?

        - Yuri Alekseevich, like all Russian people, was a baptized man and, as far as I know, a believer. For me, our joint trip to the Trinity-Sergius Lavra in 1964, just when Gagarin turned 30, remains unforgettable. He, so groovy by nature, once directly asked me if I was in the laurel. Having received an affirmative answer, he suggested to go again, and we set off immediately - in the evening, dressed as a "citizen." Fools are fools, of course, because Gagarin, after all, no matter what his clothes ... When we arrived at the monastery, a crowd of people went to him for autographs. Even the service did not have time to end, but everyone, learning about the arrival of Gagarin, hurried to him. That was such a popular love for Yura, and he could not refuse anyone.

        http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=interview&div=73
        1. Rrv
          Rrv 23 May 2013 22: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: GreatRussia
          .


          My dear, instead of this crap, you would give a reference to the shorthand record of the Congress of the Komsomol Central Committee, at which Gagarin allegedly petitioned for the restoration of the XXC, and at the same time I couldn’t find him in the list of cosmonauts.
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 23 May 2013 22: 17 New
            -1
            Quote: RRV

            My dear, instead of this crap, you would give a reference to the shorthand record of the Congress of the Komsomol Central Committee, at which Gagarin allegedly petitioned for the restoration of the XXC, and at the same time I couldn’t find him in the list of cosmonauts.

            Yes, please, dear:

            From 2 minutes 34 sec
            A document signed by Gagarin from 3 min 04 sec.
            1. Rrv
              Rrv 23 May 2013 23: 53 New
              +1
              Once again: ON THE TRANSCRIPT AND ON THE BIOGRAPHY. I saw a movie - bullshit.
        2. Tverichanka
          Tverichanka 24 May 2013 00: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: GreatRussia
          About some episodes in

          Well, what’s the right word? And if I tell you in an interview tomorrow that you are, for example, a lover of pornography, can this be considered true? Especially since you will not be alive. Well, don’t tell me about my slippers. do not recognize on the grounds that there is no other DOCUMENTARY evidence? And why should this nonsense be considered indisputable truth? Even the wife and children of Gagarin never talk about this .... Smile already.
      3. Seraph
        Seraph 7 June 2013 02: 50 New
        0
        schism is always provoked by you, Christ haters. we do not even cover topics related to the Church and faith. every time some atheist / atheist / neopagan / christophobe blabs boorish filth - and away we go. look with your eyes and not with your evil discontent
    2. Hon
      Hon 23 May 2013 18: 18 New
      +6
      We will amuse good citizens
      And at the infamous pillar
      Gut last pop
      The last king is strangled.

      Do you know who the author is?

      And where does the confidence in Lomonosov’s religiosity come from?
      Tsialkovsky was a supporter of cosmism and not Orthodoxy !!!
      Cosmism (Greek κόσμος - organized world, kosma - decoration) - a number of religious-philosophical, artistic-aesthetic and natural science movements, which are based on ideas about the cosmos as a structurally organized ordered world and about man as a “citizen of the world”, as well as microcosmos, like macrocosmos.
      From the point of view of philosophy, the concept of cosmism is associated with ideas about the cosmos as the opposite of chaos, formed already during the formation of the first philosophical schools of Ancient Greece (cynics, stoics).
      As for the outstanding people who were and are atheists, here are some of them:
      Mikhail Bakunin is a Russian publicist, ideologist of populism.
      Andrei Markov Sr. is a Russian mathematician (“Markov chains”, “Markov processes”). He was excommunicated from the Russian Orthodox Church.
      Ilya Mechnikov - Russian embryologist, bacteriologist and immunologist, Nobel laureate.
      Alexander Radishchev is a Russian educator of the 18th century.
      Ivan Sechenov is a Russian scientist, physiologist, researcher of the human nervous system.
      Vasily Tatishchev - Russian historian, enlightener.
      Vasily Tatishchev - Russian historian, enlightener.
      Ivan Turgenev is a Russian writer.
      Athanasius Fet - Russian poet.
      Anton Chekhov is a Russian writer and playwright.
      Zhores Ivanovich Alferov - Russian physicist, winner of the 2000 Nobel Prize in Physics.
      Vladimir Vernadsky is a Russian scientist and philosopher.
      Andrey Vorobyov - Russian physician, director of the Hematological Scientific Center of RAMS
      Vitaly Lazarevich Ginzburg - Russian physicist, winner of the 2003 Nobel Prize in Physics.
      Eduard Kruglyakov is a Russian physicist.
      Ivan Petrovich Pavlov - Russian physiologist, Nobel laureate.
      Mikhail Sadovsky is a Russian physicist.
      Andrei Dmitrievich Sakharov - Russian physicist and human rights activist, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize for 1975.
      Leonid Roshal - Head of the Department of Emergency Surgery and Injuries in Children, Research Institute of Pediatrics, Scientific Center for Children's Health, RAMS.

      In general, this is a strange argument. For example, Gorbachev is an atheist and Yeltsin was a believer, but personally I can not decide which of them despise more.
      By the way, an interesting fact is the biography of Yeltsin. During the baptism, the drunken priest who baptized Boris almost drowned him in the font, after which he was pumped out and decided to call Boris sufficiently strong and tenacious. Here is the bastard this priest, could not try harder laughing
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 23 May 2013 22: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Hon
        Zhores Ivanovich Alferov - Russian physicist, winner of the 2000 Nobel Prize in Physics.

        Great example!


        J.I. Alferov: “I have a very simple and kind attitude towards the Russian Orthodox Church”Because "The Orthodox Church defends the unity of the Slavs". Zhores Ivanovich recalled that "over the past two decades, the Slavic world has suffered enormous losses: Yugoslavia was defeated, the great triumvirate of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus ceased to exist. Organically, I am an internationalist ... but the Slavs suffered huge losses. I remember how during the war , especially after 1943, our fighters went on the attack not so much shouting "for Stalin", but with the words "Forward, Slavs!"


        1. Hon
          Hon 24 May 2013 11: 03 New
          +1
          Nevertheless, Zhores Ivanovich Alferov is an atheist, a Soviet and Russian physicist, and a 2000 Nobel Prize in Physics laureate. One of the authors of the Open Letter to 10 academicians to Putin against the clericalization of society. He opposes teaching in schools the subject "Fundamentals of Orthodox Culture".
    3. GG2012
      GG2012 23 May 2013 18: 28 New
      +7
      Quote: Magadan
      that all the great Russians were deep believers: Mikhail Lomonosov, Pushkin, etc.

      About Pushkin ...
      “... In 1824, the Pushkin’s letter was opened by the police in Moscow, where he wrote about his passion for“ atheistic teachings. ”This caused the poet to resign from service on July 8, 1824. [35] He was exiled to his mother’s estate and spent two years there (until September 1826) - this is Pushkin's longest stay in Mikhailovsky ... "
      Source: Wikipedia

      About Lomonosov ...
      "... The activities of the great Russian scientist M. V. Lomonosov, who ardently defended the achievements of European science and the advanced ideas of Copernicus, aroused the hatred of the synod and the clergy. Lomonosov's research undermined the very foundations of religion.

      At the initiative of the Lomonosov Academy, the spider began to publish for the first time in Russia the scientific and literary magazine "Monthly Works for the Use and Amusement of Employees", published from 1755 to 1764. The magazine, designed for a wide audience, disseminated scientific knowledge, especially in natural sciences. “All of Russia read this first Russian monthly with greed and pleasure,” wrote a contemporary. In this journal, which won the love of readers, the synod found a number of articles, “the faith of the saint of the contrary and with the honest morals of those who disagree,” since they “affirmed many worlds,” that is, propagated scientific views on the emergence of the universe, undermining church legends ("Holy Scripture is called error"). The synod insisted on the liquidation of the journal under the threat of "the most severe punishment for crimes."

      The denunciation of the synod was directed not only against the Academy of Sciences, but also against M. V. Lomonosov personally. The synod knew that Lomonosov rejected religious views on the knowledge of nature, that he was against a literal understanding of church texts on the universe. Lomonosov ridiculed the stupidity and ignorance of the clergy who opposed science. In the epigram “To Pachomius,” Lomonosov shamed opponents of science:

      You close the word of ignorance with God ...
      You think, Groin, that you are Chrysostom!
      But we are sure that your brain is empty.

      Hostilely met the synod book of the French academician Fontenel "The conversation about the multitude of worlds", published in 1740 with the assistance of Lomonosov.
      In it, a talented author in a popular form set forth the scientific data of astronomy that contradict church beliefs. The synod recognized Fontenel’s book “contrary to faith and morality” and demanded its removal.

      Annoyed by Lomonosov’s speeches against the church and the publication, with his assistance, of the book of Fontenel the synod demanded in 1757 from Elizabeth "suspend" the scientific activities of Lomonosov. “Such seductive and abusive pashkvili,” the message said, “to exterminate and publicly burn, and henceforth to ban, and send the aforementioned Lomonosov for proper warning and correction to the synod.” 10

      Lomonosov was not afraid of persecution by the synod and continued to oppose the church. Lomonosov demanded “privileges” for science, the most important of which he considered the freedom of scientific views from the persecution of the church. “To the clergy to doctrine, physical truth for the benefit and enlightenment of showing,” he wrote, “not to become attached, and especially not to scold the sciences in the sermons.”
      Source: http://warrax.net/rpc_edu/06.html

      Dear Magadan!
      You at least check what you put on the air!
      But somehow it doesn’t work out well ... already Lomonosov and Pushkin in the "... deep believers ..." wrote down ...
      I hope you do not intentionally distort the story, otherwise this trait is inherent in the Russian Orthodox Church.
    4. snek
      snek 23 May 2013 18: 33 New
      +6
      Quote: Magadan
      Opponents of the Church have already been given a thousand times examples that all the great Russians were deep-believers: Dmitry Donskoy, Alexander Nevsky, Fedor Ushakov, Mikhail Lomonosov, Tsiolkovsky, Popov, Pirogov, Dostoevsky, Pushkin, etc.

      Tsiolkovsky about the Christian faith: “If you mean Jews and Christians of different faiths (Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants, etc.), then their teaching represents only vague hints of truth with many harmful errors, ridiculous fables and superstitions.” taken from Tsiolkovsky’s article “Is there a God” electronic version - http://lib.rus.ec/b/141728/read

      Quote: Magadan
      You, gentlemen, atheists whom you can give us as an example, in order to reinforce your verbiage with real examples / evidence. What are your authorities?

      Korolev, Hawking, Darwin, and indeed most of the scientists of the 19-21 centuries.
    5. Valery-SPB
      Valery-SPB 23 May 2013 20: 29 New
      +2
      Examples of opponents of which church? Personally, I have no objection to the Russian Orthodox Old Believer Church with the Primate Metropolitan of Moscow and All Russia Cornelius at the head, which, unlike other Patriarchs, does not wear watches from presidents and is a “non-possessor”.
      Dostoevsky was convicted in 1849 in the case of Petrashevsky, who preached Western liberal values ​​that had degenerated, at present, as you correctly put it in “homosexual.” The military court, in particular, indicated: "for failure to report the criminal offense of religion ..."
      Well, about the Orthodox faith that degenerated among the Russian people and its degeneration was accompanied by the decomposition of the higher and lower church nobility, look at A.I. Denikin in Essays on the Russian Troubles.
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      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 23 May 2013 20: 35 New
        -4
        Quote: snek
        . By the way, here’s a couple of pictures - you can calculate op ip and plant for three years or how many there ...


        You are transplanting all our people:

        Krivoshein Semyon Moiseevich.
        Equal to the Nazi banner.





        1. Rrv
          Rrv 23 May 2013 22: 23 New
          +2
          Quote: GreatRussia
          .

          You do not specify the year of the parade - if this is not a period of 41-45, then fine.
          Well, with Amers we go and nothing, although the relationship is still laughing
    2. Rrv
      Rrv 23 May 2013 20: 37 New
      0
      ---------------------------
  28. Good fellow
    Good fellow 23 May 2013 18: 17 New
    +3
    No need to juggle and look for "Judas." Look for evidence or refutation of the country's well-being by the absence of religion or its presence. We all believe, only in different ways, but in the same thing. In goodness, in justice, etc. Higher values. We only go to them in different ways and on different roads, but our goals are the same. No need to look for authorities, they are also the same with us and the people you listed, the real Sons of our Fatherland. People are valued for their deeds and actions. The USSR defeated the fascist reptile by all the people. In the trenches sat both the believer and not, and the Great Country was created. Yes! There were black milestones in history when it was not welcomed, but they easily believed that the pioneers also wore red icons in their houses and wore red ties. Dmitry Razumovsky, a special forces soldier, died in Beslan saving children from religious fanatics, bandits and murderers. Just think about it? Children!!! Act? The deed! Evidence of faith in person. But not in God or in his absence. A belief in the highest values. And I also think that we do not need to artificially split the society because of our beliefs. We are one people. I agree that there are those who are trying in an aggressive way, offensive to declare themselves by denying God or his existence. But we are not like that. We respect each other, regardless of our beliefs, we are one with you. We are a multinational people.
  29. Fann
    Fann 23 May 2013 18: 32 New
    -7
    What do you atheists have in your life? After all, after death you still have nothing?
    Why do you constantly cling to the Bible? Only you, atheists, see contradictions in it. But they would read the interpretations of the Holy Fathers - they would immediately realize that there are no contradictions. Indeed, the Bible is the Word of God.
    You hypothetically do not even know what should happen for you to believe in (acknowledge the existence of) God. Isn’t it obstinacy, stubbornness, etc., what do you like to blame the “Veruns” for?
    Why are you saying that religion is opposed to science? Do you not know that many scholars were (and are) believers, schools worked at monasteries and churches, many scholars were monks? Yes, if enlightenment had not taken over Christianity, where would your boasted science be?
    It is known that after wars many return to the faithful. Is this not a confirmation that in moments of mortal danger God helps those who sincerely turn to him?
    People have always believed in God - faith in God is natural for man, but unbelief is unnatural.
    A man cannot live without faith - everyone believes in something.
    There is evidence of a huge number of ascetics - they saw, empathized with God (or something not-from-the-world). Why not believe them? Religion offers the Way to God. Atheism does not offer anything, but it deliberately rejects all paths - after all, you cannot even hypothetically imagine what must happen in order to accept God.
    In Russia, 70% of the Orthodox.
    The 2nd law of thermodynamics clearly prohibits the theory of evolution
    What is the scientific nature of atheism if you say that science is NOT engaged in God?
    Atheism is the same faith, only in the "non-existence" of God, since it is impossible to know whether it is or not.
    If there is no God, then everything is allowed (s), or: are atheists fundamentally more immoral than believers?
    1. snek
      snek 23 May 2013 18: 46 New
      +8
      Quote: FANN
      What do you atheists have in your life? After all, after death you still have nothing?

      The meaning in life itself. It is really to live it fully - to create, to love, to try to know this world in all its beauty, and not to live a lifetime in some monastery by the decree of a book written 2000 years ago. By the way, regarding the decrees from this book ...
      I am the Lord your God; You shall have no other gods before me.
      Do not make yourself an idol or any image of what is in the sky above, what is on the earth below, and what is in the water below the earth. Do not worship them and do not serve them; for I am the Lord, your God, a jealous God, who punishes children for the guilt of the fathers to the third and fourth [kind], who hate Me, and doeth mercy to a thousand generations to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
      Do not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; For the Lord will not leave without punishment the one who utters His name in vain.
      Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Work six days, and do all your work; and the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God: do not do anything about it, neither your son, nor your daughter, nor your slave, nor your slave, nor your cattle, nor the stranger who is in your dwellings. For in six days the Lord created heaven and earth, the sea and everything that is in them; and he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
      Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
      Thou shalt not kill.
      Do not commit adultery.
      Do not steal.
      You shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
      Do not covet your neighbor's house; do not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his slave, nor his maid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nothing that your neighbor has.

      according to this text, not working on Saturday is just as important as not killing (even more importantly - higher on the list) if you worked on Saturday - BURN IN HELL SINNERS. Well, and about not killing:
      At this time, his associates were executed. Avvakum was punished with a whip and exiled to Pustozersk on Pechora (1667). At the same time, they did not cut out his tongue, like Lazarus and EpiphaniusWith whom he and Nicephorus, Protopop of Sambir, were exiled to Pustozersk.
      He spent 14 years on bread and water in an earthen prison in Pustozersk, continuing his sermon, sending letters and letters. Finally, his sharp letter to Tsar Fyodor Alekseevich, in which he criticized Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich and scolded Patriarch Joachim, decided the fate of both him and his comrades: all of them were burned in a log house in Pustozersk.

      How cute. two factions, both of which believed in a god who clearly said not to do 10 things, including to kill.

      ps just now, reading the commandments: "Do not desire your neighbor's house; do not desire your neighbor's wife, neither his slave nor his slave"neither his ox nor his ass, nothing that your neighbor has."
      1. TUMAN
        TUMAN 23 May 2013 21: 08 New
        +3
        Quote: snek
        By the way, regarding the decrees from this book ...

        Gospel of Luke CHAPTER 14
        verse 26. if someone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, and his wife and children, and brothers and sisters, and, moreover, his very life, he cannot be My disciple;
        CHAPTER 12
        verse 53. the father will be against the son, and the son against the father; mother versus daughter, and daughter versus mother; the mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
        verse 52. for henceforth five in one house will be divided, three against two, and two against three:
        verse 51. Do you think that I have come to give peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but separation;

        Matthew - Chapter 10
        34 Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword,
        35 for I came to divide the man with his father, and the daughter with her mother, and the daughter-in-law with her mother-in-law.
        36 And ​​the enemies of man are his household.


        So, it’s very interesting to write!
        1. snek
          snek 23 May 2013 21: 21 New
          +6
          Quote: TUMAN
          So, it’s very interesting to write!

          There are even more interesting:
          -Daughter of Babylon, the devastator! blessed is he who will reward you for what you have done to us!
          =Blessed is he who takes and breaks your babies on a stone!
          psalm 136
      2. Fann
        Fann 23 May 2013 22: 03 New
        0
        Do you believe that airplanes, computers, compasses, etc. were someone
        purposefully designed and created, but you also believe that a human body that is incommensurably more complex than any existing technical
        apparatus, appeared in the process of random biological evolution.
        You believe that life came from lifeless chemicals, but you absolutely deny that Jesus rose from the dead.
        You will be disappointed to learn that not all Christians understand every word in the Bible literally.
        You think the Bible is fiction, and the Da Vinci Code is documentary.
        I myself was so smart that I was born, and everything that I see around came as a result of a ridiculous accident equal to 0,000000000000000000000000000000000001%
        The most striking thing is that it is scientists who are looking for extraterrestrial civilizations or are judging their presence by completely certain signs. They are looking for radio signals in which a certain pattern is observed, or, having found some kind of pot on a planet, it would never occur to any scientist to attribute his randomness. There will be a scientific sensation !!! This pot will be evidence of intelligent life on this planet in the past or present. However, when it comes to a person who is infinitely more complicated than this pot, an eclipse sets in, or night blindness, I don’t know. It turns out that the man himself appeared. And this worldview is called SCIENTIFIC)))
        Why are you stubbornly rejecting the obvious?
        1. snek
          snek 23 May 2013 22: 16 New
          +7
          Quote: FANN
          I myself was so smart that I was born, and everything that I see around came as a result of a ridiculous accident equal to 0,000000000000000000000000000000000001%
          The most striking thing is that it is scientists who are looking for extraterrestrial civilizations or are judging their presence by completely certain signs. They are looking for radio signals in which a certain pattern is observed, or, having found some kind of pot on a planet, it would never occur to any scientist to attribute his randomness. There will be a scientific sensation !!! This pot will be evidence of intelligent life on this planet in the past or present. However, when it comes to a person who is infinitely more complicated than this pot, an eclipse sets in, or night blindness, I don’t know. It turns out that the man himself appeared. And this worldview is called SCIENTIFIC)))

          Indeed, it is much more logical to suppose that out of nowhere came a being with unlimited power and intelligence, who had nothing to do to create the universe. Then this creature in its image and likeness created a man (tell me, why should God have pubic hair?), Then a woman 1.0, but she did not roll, then a woman 2.0 from the rib of the first man. I gave them the order to multiply and multiply. At first, everything was fine, but then the question arose, but how do children multiply? And so there was incest.
          Really much more logical than all these big explosions and evolution of yours.
          1. try
            try 23 May 2013 23: 49 New
            +1
            totally agree with you. those. absolutely. but where did superdense matter come from and with what fright did it explode, creating galaxies and intelligent beings along the way?
          2. Fann
            Fann 24 May 2013 08: 07 New
            -3
            Of course, this argument is stupid. And everyone knows the Lord in due time, but more often this happens in times bitter for a person, why put off this moment until the war begins, you end up in jail or you get a serious illness or who knows what other grief will happen. The cock does not bite, the man does not cross himself. Many people know God only by knowing the devil.
    2. Crang
      Crang 23 May 2013 20: 41 New
      +1
      I look when you burned living people at bonfires and the lines that you did in their dungeons, it was not allowed / allowed to you.
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 23 May 2013 20: 56 New
        0
        Quote: Krang
        I look when you burned living people at bonfires and the lines that you did in their dungeons, it was not allowed / allowed to you.

        Here's who they burned:

        3. Which, by the charm of their commoners and their wives and children, led them to burn themselves: and such thieves, wanted, for their theft, because of their charms people were burned, burn themselves.

        Those. executed the top, which ordinary people incited to suicides, in particular self-immolations (a terrible sin in Christianity), while itself remaining on the sidelines.
        1. Crang
          Crang 23 May 2013 21: 30 New
          +5
          Yeah, kids - "bloodthirsty NKVD-shniki" for example, for such a thing would simply be shot. And who are you trying to trick? Bent alive and tortured to death tens of thousands of innocent people. Including here in Russia. Giordano Bruno, the great astronomer was burned for he was rightand not for. "Which, with the charm of their commoners and their wives and children, led them to burn themselves: and such thieves, wanted, for their theft that people burned from their charms, burn themselves." - I don’t even want to comment on this nonsense. Put your hand in the burning gas on the gas stove and philosophize in this position. Maybe something will become clear about faith.
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 23 May 2013 21: 39 New
            -2
            Quote: Krang
            Yeah, kids - "bloodthirsty NKVD-shniki" for example, for such a thing would simply be shot. And who are you trying to trick? Bent alive and tortured to death tens of thousands of innocent people. Including here in Russia.

            But this is the most natural lies or banal illiteracy.
            What tens of thousands of burned in Russia are we talking about?
            It is not necessary for Russians to ascribe a Western mentality and values. It's not gonna go!


            I do not even want to comment on this nonsense.

            I don't feel like stump. For this is an article of the law of 1865, and not your fantasies about tens of thousands burned in Russia.
            1. GG2012
              GG2012 23 May 2013 21: 45 New
              +6
              Quote: GreatRussia
              But this is the most natural lies or banal illiteracy.

              Falsehood is Your Second Self.

              Source: I.I. Smirnov. The uprising of Bolotnikov 1606-1607 M., 1951, p. 35.
            2. Crang
              Crang 23 May 2013 22: 03 New
              +1
              Yes, even a dozen. Without thousands. At least one. This is already enough. I say - put your hand in the fire and hold it. Then you will understand everything at once. And if this is an article of law already the end of the 19th century! What about the laws of the pre-Petrine era?
        2. GG2012
          GG2012 23 May 2013 21: 34 New
          +3
          Quote: GreatRussia
          Those. executed the top, which ordinary people incited to suicide,


          "In ancient Russia, the Vedic processes arose as early as the XNUMXth century, shortly after the adoption of Christianity.
          Church authorities were investigating these matters.
          In the oldest legal monument, “The Charter of Prince Vladimir on Church Courts,” witchcraft, sorcery, and sorcery are included in the number of cases that the Orthodox Church examined and judged.
          In the monument of the XII century. The “Word of Evil Sushes,” compiled by Metropolitan Cyril, also speaks of the need to punish witches and sorcerers by a church court. The chronicle notes that in 1024 in the Suzdal land the wise men and "dashing women" were captured and put to death by burning. They were accused of the fact that they were the culprits of the crop failure that had befallen Suzdal.
          In 1071, the Magi were executed in Novgorod for publicly censuring the Christian faith. The Rostovites did the same in 1091. In Novgorod, after interrogation and torture, they burned four “wizards” in 1227. According to the chronicle, the execution took place in the bishop's court at the insistence of the Novgorod archbishop Anthony.
          The clergy supported the belief among the people that sorcerers and witches were capable of acts hostile to Christianity, and demanded a brutal reprisal against them. In the teachings of the unknown author, "How to live to Christians," civil authorities were urged to track down sorcerers and sorcerers and betray them to "all-out torment" death, in fear of a church curse. “It is impossible to spare those who did evil before God,” the author of the sermon convinced, proving that those who saw the execution of “God will be afraid” 2.
          Metropolitan John of Kiev also endorsed the mass terror against sorcerers and witches and defended the right of episcopal courts to sentence sorcerers and witches to heavy punishments and death. Metropolitan John believed that cruelty would frighten others not to perform “magical” actions and would turn people away from sorcerers and sorcerers.
          1. Crang
            Crang 23 May 2013 21: 43 New
            -1
            Exactly. And they were not sorcerers and witches, but innocent people.
          2. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 23 May 2013 21: 56 New
            -1
            Quote: GG2012
            In 1071, the Magi were executed in Novgorod for publicly censuring the Christian faith. The Rostovites did the same in 1091. In Novgorod, after interrogation and torture, they burned four “wizards” in 1227. According to the chronicle, the execution took place in the bishop's court at the insistence of the Novgorod archbishop Anthony.

            Come again quoted Khrushchev "singer" Herkulov?
            How does this relate to schismatics?
            Moreover:
            NOVGOROD REBELLION1071 was headed by a sorcerer. Defending the bishop, Prince Gleb Svyatoslavich killed the magician and pacified the rebellion
            http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/es/39763/%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%

            BE%D0%B4%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5

            Banal execution for an attempted coup.

            In the 20th century, they also did not stand on ceremony with such people.
            1. Crang
              Crang 23 May 2013 22: 05 New
              +2
              Just shot, not burned. it difference - you did not know the believer? And you want to propagandize this for us and still have the audacity to talk about some kind of “morality” and “morality”? How is it with your head?
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 23 May 2013 22: 11 New
                -3
                Quote: Krang
                Just shot, not burned. This is the difference - you did not know the believer? And you want to propagandize this for us and still have the audacity to talk about some kind of “morality” and “morality”? How is it with your head?

                A type of execution more humane?)))
                How much anger. Oh, m ...
                By the way, believer, I didn’t switch with you.
                1. Crang
                  Crang 23 May 2013 22: 18 New
                  +2
                  Quote: GreatRussia
                  A type of execution more humane?)))

                  I look at you funny ... Well, I’m saying - go sit on the gas stove with your ass, so that it wouldn’t be funny. Further. The shooting aims at eliminating the person. Just elimination and all. Physical Mathematical When they burned him alive, and even an innocent person, it was the clear aim of the monsters in robes to scoff at him as much as possible (in medicine - this is considered the most painful death of all). And why will we giggle and say like, “and this is all bullshit ... So little things ...” There is no uncle - the little devil is said to be in the little things.
                  1. GreatRussia
                    GreatRussia 23 May 2013 22: 27 New
                    -5
                    Quote: Krang

                    I look at you funny ... Well, I’m saying - go sit on the gas stove with your ass, so that it wouldn’t be funny.

                    Oh, just do not try to crush emotions. My smile is about your stuffing, not the punishment of criminals.



                    . The shooting aims at eliminating the person. Just elimination and all. Physical Mathematical When they burned him alive, and even an innocent person, it was the clear aim of the monsters in robes to scoff at him as much as possible (in medicine - this is considered the most painful death of all).

                    What clothes? The prince of the rebels was executed. Moreover, there are no reliable sources about the burning.


                    "No uncle - in the little things as they say the devil lurks.

                    Gold words! Therefore, the documentary in the studio and the evidence of such executions, and not a link to the propaganda a la Grekulova and so on.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 24 May 2013 08: 00 New
                        -3
                        Quote: GG2012
                        Why are you all the same, lying to disgrace ... a sacrifice of Christ Agitprom, you are ours ...

                        Listen, OUNovets, firstly, I’m not yours, but Russian, secondly, a victim of the Bolshevik-agitprop, I didn’t go with YOU, thirdly, to talk about lies, you should convict in it, and not throw poop at opponents and sprinkle links to different inherently historical events and dates.



                        How about the source of tsarist times, when Grekulov was not yet ...

                        What will you save this time?

                        Your orange co-religionists are waving on your maidan, I understand, hamlo?

                        On, chew:
                        29 number by his imperial majesty decree this deacon Vasily was burned in Novgorod,
                        http://mikv1.narod.ru/text/Delo1867.htm

                        Those. burned by order of Peter 1, who committed the same:

                        The Holy Governing Synod
                        (from Greek. sýnodos - assembly), the highest state body of church administration, created by Peter I in 1721, united the highest church hierarchs. The Synod was headed by a civil servant appointed by the emperor (chief prosecutor). He was in charge of the affairs of the Russian Orthodox Church (he was engaged in the interpretation of religious dogmas, overseeing the observance of rituals, issues of spiritual censorship and enlightenment, he fought with “heretics” and “schismatics”).


                        Those. The church was taken under the full state. control by Peter.
                    2. Crang
                      Crang 23 May 2013 22: 50 New
                      0
                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      Oh, just do not try to crush emotions. My smile is about your stuffing, not the punishment of criminals.

                      What kind of criminals? Criminals were shot during the USSR. And then the bishops burned innocent people.
                      1. not good
                        not good 24 May 2013 00: 47 New
                        -1
                        Yeah, and then in the USSR they just rehabilitated all those who were not guilty, forgive the citizens a mistake.
            2. GG2012
              GG2012 23 May 2013 22: 23 New
              +1
              Quote: GreatRussia
              Banal execution for an attempted coup.

              That's a lying nature ...
              An ordinary murder committed in the corporate interest, called "execution for an attempted coup" ...

              "Locum Tenens of the Patriarchal Throne Stefan Jaworski following Bishop Pitirim in his work "Stone of Faith" theoretically substantiated the need for brutal persecution against the "enemies" of the church, noting that people often have disputes about faith - "quarrels and contradictions." Condemning those who considered bloody terror incompatible with the “meekness of the church,” he proved the necessity and “salvation” of the death penalty for church opponents, citing the experience of the Catholic Inquisition. “Experience shows,” he wrote, “that many heretics, like Donatists, Manaheans, Albigensians, etc., were exterminated with weapons”
              “There is no other choice for the heretics of healing than death,” he wrote. The Metropolitan Job, who was devoted to him, said that on the orders of Stephen, 12 people were arrested in Novgorod and many of them "were cruelly tortured and torn." At his insistence in 1713, the doctor Dmitry Tveritinov was persecuted. He was an enlightened man of his time. Studying the Bible in Latin, Tveritinov selected from it up to five hundred texts in support of his views; He was a supporter of the famous transformations in Russian society, especially among the clergy. Tveritinov rejected the significance of church tradition, the cult of saints, relics, and the worship of icons. He denounced the "shepherds of the false," as he called the priests, did not recognize monasticism, considered it unacceptable for the church to own wealth, primarily estates and serfs. Opposing religious dogmatism, Tveritinov caustically ridiculed religious superstitions spread by the clergy, condemned church rites, which were often the cause of illness. Tveritinov did not hide his views, since he believed Peter that it was possible to openly practice his religious beliefs in Russia: “Now we are free to anyone who chooses which faith, he believes in that,” he said.

              On October 24, 1714, bishops, archimandrites and priests gathered in the patriarchal cross chamber for a conciliar trial of Tveritinov and his students.

              On December 30, 1714, Thomas Ivanov (a student of Tveritinov) was brutally executed. In Moscow, on Red Square, a log cabin was built, where Ivanov was placed, and lit.

              The Sobor Court sentenced Tveritinov to death, but Tsar Peter 1 released him from punishment.

              The actions of the Tsar aroused anger among the hierarchs of the Church Synod, however, Peter 1 sent the leader of the radical part of the Church Synod, Stephen Yavorsky, into disgrace.

              Source: A.N. Filippov. On punishments under the laws of Peter I. SPb., 1800, p. 138.
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 23 May 2013 22: 39 New
                -3
                Quote: GG2012
                That's a lying nature ...
                An ordinary murder committed in the corporate interest, called "execution for an attempted coup" ...

                Just do not be rude, mister from "NAZalEzhnoy" and mix in one heap events separated by several centuries.



                Studying the Bible in Latin, Tveritinov selected from it up to five hundred texts in support of his views; He was a supporter of the famous transformations in Russian society, especially among the clergy. Tveritinov rejected the significance of church tradition, the cult of saints, relics, and the worship of icons. He denounced the "shepherds of the false," as he called the priests, did not recognize monasticism, considered it unacceptable for the church to own wealth, primarily estates and serfs. Opposing religious dogmatism, Tveritinov caustically ridiculed religious superstitions spread by the clergy, condemned church rites, which were often the cause of illness. Tveritinov did not hide his views, since he believed Peter that it was possible to openly practice his religious beliefs in Russia: “Now we are free to anyone who chooses which faith, he believes in that,” he said.

                He didn’t expose anything. The same dirty tricks, as the helmans with the liberal-pro-Western party, organizing various exhibitions and chopping icons that incite hatred.


                He severely injured his comrades Thomas Ivanov, who was on penance in the Miracle Monastery: he cut the image of St. Alexei the Wonderworker. In 1714, the Moscow Cathedral betrayed heretics a curse and gave them to a civil court.

                http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enc_biography/122407/%D0%A2%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%

                B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2
    3. Valery-SPB
      Valery-SPB 23 May 2013 21: 14 New
      +3
      Atheists do not deny God, antitheists deny.
      Recent scientific DNA research has identified a woman as an alpha individual. A man is a derivative of a woman! How to deal with this - (Genesis, Ch. 2.21). From the rib of a man.
      Did you hear the naming of the reigning persons? "We, Nicholas II ..., Us, the King and the Father of the nation are worried ..." Have you heard or read somewhere about this: "Among Us, Nicholas II ..." Bullshit? Rave. And how then to consider the next passage from the Bible. After eating fruit, the fall. (Genesis. Ch. 3.22) "And the Lord God said: Behold, Adam has become like one of Us." One of us. Who are these still equal to God?
      The "Septuagint" of seventy interpreters was translated from 5 books of the Torah. As I recall, the Hebrew texts were talking about 2-3 women before Eve, created in different ways. And after the murder of Abel, Eve visited Aeon, where she received from the Higher seed for the birth of Seth. In the Bible: "... she called his name Seth, because God laid me another seed (Genesis. Ch. 4.25).
      If you tell and evaluate everything, there is not enough space.
    4. Rrv
      Rrv 23 May 2013 22: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: FANN
      Only you, atheists, see contradictions in it. But they would read the interpretation Holy fathers

      "... and do not call anyone your father on earth, for you have one Father who is in heaven ..." (Matthew 23: 9) laughing

      Do you not know that many scholars were (and are) believers

      Is it possible that mountains move the power of thought and cure cancer with hands? belay

      Yes, if enlightenment had not taken over Christianity, where would your boasted science be?

      Apparently somewhere in the Pluto region - thanks to the church for the destruction of scientists and ancient cultures.

      It is known that after wars many return to the faithful. Is this not a confirmation that in moments of mortal danger God helps those who sincerely turn to him?

      Not - this is a confirmation that the fearing person is ready to redeem his life by any means, but to religions, the essence of which is fear, only that is necessary.

      faith in God is natural to man

      Natural for infantile consciousness.

      A man cannot live without faith - everyone believes in something.

      Believing and admitting a hypothetical possibility are two different things.

      There is evidence of a huge number of ascetics - they saw, empathized with God (or something not-from-the-world). Why not believe them?

      There is no need to believe them - they certainly communicated with God, only subjectively. The reason for such communication is epilepsy, schizophrenia, paranoia, hallucinogenic substances, hunger, pathogenic bacteria, etc.
      Their faith is akin to Vasya’s confidence from the madhouse, who knows for sure that he, Vasya, is actually Napoleon - God told him about this. On the other hand, a god from a neighboring chamber claims that Vasya did not say anything like that - and which of them to believe? request

      In Russia, 70% of the Orthodox.

      Of the total number of believers, how many percent of the population believes is unknown, since researchers can’t agree on criteria. If we turn to the Bible, then according to biblical criteria, believers are generally zero.

      If there is no God, then everything is allowed (s), or: are atheists fundamentally more immoral than believers?

      If believers need religion to remain people, then definitely believers are much more immoral. laughing

      Atheism is the same faith
      1. Rrv
        Rrv 23 May 2013 23: 13 New
        +1
        Type science and morality do not contradict religion laughing
    5. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka 24 May 2013 00: 36 New
      +3
      Quote: FANN
      Yes, if Christianity hadn’t taken over enlightenment

      That was just before the revolution that everyone was literally literate .... My father went through the whole war from beginning to end (attack pilot) and was never even a distant believer .... ENOUGH CLICKS! Believe and believe yourself on health. We would pray better than yelling at the forum. More benefit for you as a believer would be.
    6. Wawan
      Wawan 24 May 2013 06: 00 New
      +1
      And what side is the "second law of thermodynamics" here?
  30. Good fellow
    Good fellow 23 May 2013 18: 39 New
    +7
    In this eternal dispute of people, I would like to put an end to it. Let's remember the Great Man.

    Evgeny Aleksandrovich Rodionov (May 23, 1977, the village of Siberians, Kuznetsk district of the Penza region - May 23, 1996, near the village of Bamut, Chechnya) - a private border troops of the Russian Federation. During the war, together with a group of colleagues, he spent a long time in captivity, subjected to cruel torture, refused the offer to change his faith in exchange for freedom, for which he was brutally killed. For many, Eugene became a symbol of courage, honor and fidelity. Posthumously awarded the Order of Courage and the Order of Glory to Russia.

    Everlasting memory!
  31. Odysseus
    Odysseus 23 May 2013 19: 17 New
    +7
    It’s a frankly criminal law. And it’s not even that it contradicts the constitution.
    How can an “insult to feelings” be legally interpreted? And why does this stand out for us a privileged group of "believers", and even believers in certain rites of certain religions?
    De facto, this law opens up unlimited possibilities for the persecution of any people. Of course, people who are objectionable to the authorities and money to those in possession will be prosecuted.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. Rrv
    Rrv 23 May 2013 20: 39 New
    +2
    -----------------------------------
  34. Sour
    Sour 23 May 2013 21: 17 New
    +2
    To adopt such a law, you must first give a legal definition of the concept of "believer." And this is simply impossible. It turns out the judge, at his discretion, will decide who is considered a believer and who is not.
    1. snek
      snek 23 May 2013 21: 26 New
      +4
      Well, there are precedents for verifying the truth of faith. For example, the sacrifice of the first-born in the name of God (in the hope that before the procedure itself, the higher authority will replace the child with a lamb).
  35. Andy061
    Andy061 23 May 2013 22: 38 New
    +6
    After all the feints with Gundyaev, his disappearing hours, all this hypocrisy, for insulting all this, they can also solder the term, we live happily ..
    1. The comment was deleted.
  36. Dr.
    Dr. M2 23 May 2013 23: 00 New
    +2
    And if a person is offended by the arrangement of symbols of ignorance and medieval obscurantism - Orthodox crosses everywhere? What about his feelings like that?
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. Dr.
    Dr. M2 23 May 2013 23: 04 New
    +4
    “Andrei Palych,” the investigator said, turning over the case on the display screen, “it says here that in the mid-90s you were one of the initiators of creating the so-called Soviet national schools.” The programs of these schools included in-depth study of the natural sciences and mathematics ...
    - Yes it is. The Soviet did not want to send their children to public schools, where the law of God was the main subject.
    I remember in 1995 I met an old friend on the street and asked why he had such a depressed look. “They stole my son from me,” he replied, “it was such a smart kid, I taught him the technique and he grabbed everything on the fly. He would have grown up as a good engineer. Then he went to school and seemed to replace him: hung on He threw off his neck, engaging in technology, and since then he has only talked about saving the soul, at first he and his mother tried to convert us to Christ, but we understood absolutely nothing: he speaks in some obscene Church Slavonic jargon. Now he abandoned these attempts, but looks at us with a sort of regret, as mentally retarded who are not given to understand something of the most important thing in life. He is not rude to us, not rude - his faith does not allow him. But this is a thousand times worse than if he imposed us obscenely. Because we are creatures for him lower rank and he looks down at us. A completely alien man! They stole him from us! "
    I knew my friend as an honest and decent person, and it hurt me to see how fate had unfairly treated him. My own daughter was growing up, and I was scared for her. It was then that I, and several other parents from families with long atheistic traditions, had the idea to create Soviet national schools. In contrast to official schools, it was originally intended to introduce the subject of “scientific atheism” into the curriculum, but I insisted that this watch be given to an in-depth study of the natural sciences. I wanted the Soviet people to gradually come from primitive atheism to a real scientific worldview.
  39. Dr.
    Dr. M2 23 May 2013 23: 05 New
    +1
    “But besides the natural sciences, there was also a course of technical sciences in these schools, and there was even the subject of history and philosophy of technology.” Is this also related to the upbringing of a scientific worldview?
    - Rather, it is connected with the Soviet Dream. Every nation that comes from the merger of many more ancient peoples is united primarily by some universal, understandable to everyone, Dream. For example, the American people were created by the American dream of prosperity. The Soviet Dream was previously identified with communism, but communism was only a means to its achievement, and, as it turned out, not the best. Communism collapsed and forgotten, but the Soviet Dream remained. This is a dream of a society in which a person is valued not for how much he has managed to accumulate or steal money, but for his knowledge, skills and talents. Not for its origin, but for what it is. This is a dream of a society in which all the hard, stupid mechanical work, generally any work that does not require a person’s highest abilities, does not train them, and therefore slowly turns a person into a monkey, is given to mechanisms, and a person can finally always be a person .
    The American dream is a dream of personal success, and success is most often understood as the accumulation of a large number of banknotes, even at the cost of turning oneself into a monkey.
    The Soviet Dream is a dream that everyone could afford the luxury of always being human. But in order to achieve this dream, you need first of all a very high level of technological development. We need miner robots so that people do not turn into an appendage of a jackhammer, we need robot sellers so that people do not turn into a parrot advertising a product. You need a lot of different robots. But it is impossible to make so many robots on Earth - the terrestrial biosphere will not withstand such a scale of industrial production. Therefore, access to space and the use of extraterrestrial resources is necessary. And that is why Soviet national schools paid so much attention to the study of robotics and space technology.
    - Your happiness, Andrei Palych, that the law recently passed by our government on suppressing the propaganda of technicalism is not retroactive, and we cannot attract you for what you did a quarter century ago. But Soviet national schools, these nurseries of technicalism, we, thank God, covered up. It’s not enough for you, the Soviet, that half a century ago you launched satellites and made holes in the firmament!


    (c) A. Lazarevich
  40. Dr.
    Dr. M2 23 May 2013 23: 12 New
    +2
    Recently I was in St. Petersburg. I visited by chance in one church. On the territory of the church there is a church shop. I went inside - I immediately took out the phone to take a photo.
  41. Dr.
    Dr. M2 23 May 2013 23: 16 New
    +2
    I tried to talk to the saleswoman - does she consider this PAID toilet in the church shop normal. I’m an unbeliever, and I think that it’s abnormal and that with this the Russian Orthodox Church demonstrates absolute disregard for its own “electrorate”. She considers normal. In the church itself (not on the church grounds in the church shop, but directly) - they also trade. I tried to talk - how could it be, if Christ drove merchants out of the temple and there can be no compromises and excuses in the spirit that the priest allowed and blessed - they are silent, hostile.

    PS And now imagine on the territory of the mosque a shop selling prayer rugs and stuff, and a paid toilet in it. What would happen to those who arranged it? So, the Russian Orthodox Church itself does not believe in anything. Typical double morality - one for their own - another for cattle.
    1. not good
      not good 24 May 2013 00: 56 New
      0
      Everyone is looking for in the church what is closer to his soul, to whom is God a toilet.
  42. Dr.
    Dr. M2 23 May 2013 23: 17 New
    +2
    I forgot the name of the church. St. Petersburg residents can be identified by their proximity to this bridge. A photo is taken directly from the territory of the church about ten meters from this shop.
  43. Crang
    Crang 23 May 2013 23: 27 New
    +5
    Do you know about cigarettes? The principle of any sane Soviet man, looking at the current situation, it is obvious that these faiths have the same problems and evil. And no positive. Nothing. Previously, there was no religion under the USSR. And everyone lived together, watched good films, worked peacefully and won. Believing at the same time in the USSR. Into something tangible and real. In his people. In his nuclear missiles (RSM-54 - codenamed "Satan" - the priest repeatedly lit and sprinkled this little animal with holy water already at EREF). In his indestructible tank power. In his engineers who solved the most difficult tasks. What now? Churches and flesh at every turn. So what? Aggression in society is crazy. They can kill just for a carelessly spoken word (on the basis of "suddenly flared up hostile relations" as they say). They are trying to introduce some kind of idiotic "insult to the feelings of believers," which will only further increase anger and aggression .... Why all this? WHAT FOR? Russia is a secular state. Keep your faith at home! And he went out into the street - shove it away, then the law of the Russian Federation applies and nothing more. Atheists also offend a lot. No need to add oil to the fire. I do not want to observe any idiotic rites and traditions and I will not. And not required. And this is primarily true of Islam and all kinds of Wahhabis there. A film that very accurately tells about all this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-dlbiMn_0g
    1. Seraph
      Seraph 24 May 2013 00: 33 New
      -5
      The USSR was pissed off by atheist-communists and immediately fell into a stupor. And believers at least created and built something, and did not plunder and tyry abroad. And our temples were built not with the money of atheists, but with believers. The Cathedral of Christ the Savior, built by decision of the Moscow government, is still owned by him. Do not like it - go sue Luzhkov. You are simply envious that we believers have not forgotten how to live as a team and can create something together, and there is no trace left of your godless collectivity: each for himself, my hut from the edge, is not a thief. The remains of a great country are taken away. All corrupt thieves - these are your friends, comrades, neither faith nor conscience
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Seraph
          Seraph 24 May 2013 03: 26 New
          -3
          I know many good deeds that Christians and non-church people do for the sake of their faith and their principles. and I don’t know a single good deed done by an atheist for the sake of his unbelief
      2. Rrv
        Rrv 24 May 2013 01: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: Seraphim
        The Cathedral of Christ the Savior, built by decision of the Moscow government, is still owned by him.
        1. Seraph
          Seraph 24 May 2013 03: 29 New
          -2
          Well, so make a claim to the Government of Moscow. Or the thought that these same 200 million dollars you loved so much was spent not by the Church, but by secular people, cannot be accepted by your consciousness as incompatible with disbelief in God?
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Rrv
        Rrv 24 May 2013 01: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: Seraphim
        All corrupt thieves - these are your friends, comrades, neither faith nor conscience
        1. Rrv
          Rrv 24 May 2013 01: 24 New
          +4
          corrupt thieves
          1. Rrv
            Rrv 24 May 2013 01: 25 New
            +2
            corrupt thieves
            1. Rrv
              Rrv 24 May 2013 01: 26 New
              +3
              corrupt thieves
              1. Rrv
                Rrv 24 May 2013 01: 30 New
                +2
                corrupt thieves
                1. Rrv
                  Rrv 24 May 2013 01: 31 New
                  +3
                  corrupt thieves
      4. Crang
        Crang 24 May 2013 09: 55 New
        -1
        The communists built it. And prosrali like you. And what kind of team are you talking about? Muslims - yes there is a collective, all for each other. And you? Where is your team? Where have you ever stood up for yours? Show me? Agafonov killed - at least one of you at least something said "team"? Did the "Patriarch" even protest? Horseradish! They live at the expense of us - the Communists and working people, and something else they perform there.
  44. Rrv
    Rrv 23 May 2013 23: 28 New
    +4
    ----------------------------
    1. not good
      not good 24 May 2013 01: 01 New
      0
      That's great, but I thought that the Communists only wrote off the code of the builder of communism from the Bible, and they also did not think about the criminal code for a long time (20 years for a political joke)
      1. Rrv
        Rrv 24 May 2013 01: 44 New
        +4
        You probably have documented evidence - at the expense of 20 years for a joke - are there? smile

        By the way - the opinion about writing off the code of the builder of communism from the Bible is wrong: they are only remotely similar.
  45. brutal true
    brutal true 23 May 2013 23: 30 New
    +5
    Why, if a person believes in aliens, Bigfoot, chupocabra, sorcerers, drummer, etc. and if he imposes his vision on others, then he can even be blamed for treatment, but if he believes in an evil, jealous, petty old man in a sheet living in the stratosphere, is this just a believing person? And if another person hints to the believer on an inadequate perception of the world, can he hurt his feelings and easily go to jail, because the law protects him? Wonderful!
  46. Rrv
    Rrv 23 May 2013 23: 30 New
    +2
    -------------------------
  47. Rrv
    Rrv 23 May 2013 23: 31 New
    0
    ------------------------------
    1. Seraph
      Seraph 24 May 2013 00: 17 New
      -8
      Perhaps the priests and monks whom you atheists crucified in temples and drowned in the ice holes after the revolution of the 17th year would appreciate the humor of this picture
      1. Rrv
        Rrv 24 May 2013 00: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: Seraphim
        Perhaps the priests and monks whom you atheists crucified in temples and drowned in the ice holes after the revolution of the 17th year would appreciate the humor of this picture


        Seraphim, you are so vindictive laughing
        1. Seraph
          Seraph 24 May 2013 02: 54 New
          -3
          and my great-grandfather, a priest, was shot in 1918 because he was a priest.
          1. Rrv
            Rrv 24 May 2013 05: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: Seraphim
            and my great-grandfather, a priest, was shot in 1918 because he was a priest.

            Looks like he fed white.

            Quote: Seraphim
            that's how you atheists respect human rights

            Fear god laughing Do you complain, after all that the priests did?
          2. fartfraer
            fartfraer 24 May 2013 08: 32 New
            +5
            “And my great-grandfather, a priest, was shot in 1918 because he was a priest.” - Have you ever wondered how in most of the country Orthodox Christians have so easily thrown off Orthodoxy? Nobody rushed to intercede for the priests because they completely decredited themselves, as is happening today .RPC is a government agency; it has nothing in common with Christianity or faith.
            1. consul
              consul 24 May 2013 12: 45 New
              0
              Quote: fartfraer
              “And my great-grandfather, a priest, was shot in 1918 because he was a priest.” - Have you ever wondered how in most of the country Orthodox Christians have so easily thrown off Orthodoxy? Nobody rushed to intercede for the priests because they completely decredited themselves, as is happening today .RPC is a government agency; it has nothing in common with Christianity or faith.


              They were deeply mistaken, there were priests who were hiding. Those who interceded were arrested and shot. Then in 1936 the village head was arrested in our village (because she didn’t give the key to the church, they shot him a month later, then the bell ringer, 6 people went for him. intercede-no one returned. Speak off Orthodoxy-didn’t take off, persecution was (very strong), no more. City committee secretaries secretly baptized children (through their relatives), I meet a lot of people who were baptized with a secular rank (there were no priests), already adults for 40-50 years of people.
            2. Seraph
              Seraph 7 June 2013 03: 20 New
              0
              "didn’t think about how in the majority of their country Orthodoxy was so abandoned?"
              thought about it. probably because of why with the same ease the majority of Soviet citizens said goodbye to the USSR. "Jews, Hervey, Jews are all around"
    2. Seraph
      Seraph 24 May 2013 03: 42 New
      -6
      that's how you atheists respect human rights
      1. Crang
        Crang 24 May 2013 10: 03 New
        +3
        What did you do? Blown up a building? These are not living people to burn at the stake, as you did.
        1. not good
          not good 25 May 2013 02: 26 New
          +1
          Yes, the secular authorities in those years were much more humane, they did not burn criminals, but only: they pulled out their noses, cut their tongues and ears, chopped their hands and heads, hung them and not only their necks (they could have ribs or legs), as well as wheeled , quartered, pulled horses and much more interesting things, although there couldn’t have been burned.
        2. Seraph
          Seraph 7 June 2013 03: 21 New
          0
          give examples from the history of Russia before shitting on it
  48. Rrv
    Rrv 24 May 2013 00: 07 New
    +2
    ---------------------------
  49. The comment was deleted.
  50. Rrv
    Rrv 24 May 2013 00: 10 New
    +1
    Can anyone explain - this is how? belay
    1. Valery-SPB
      Valery-SPB 24 May 2013 02: 43 New
      0
      Is the Orthodox atheistic dictionary edited by Chaplin not supposed to be released? And where did you get such a charm? I want the same!
      1. Rrv
        Rrv 24 May 2013 04: 22 New
        +2
        I collect little by little smile
        1. Rrv
          Rrv 24 May 2013 04: 25 New
          +1
          ______________
          1. Seraph
            Seraph 24 May 2013 04: 35 New
            -4
            I also collect a little bit
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
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      1. Hon
        Hon 24 May 2013 09: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Svobodny
        Yes, and produce anti-church propaganda on a patriotic site, do you think that you are doing the right thing ?? Do you consider yourself a patriot ??

        Now, count the pros and cons, probably not all Orthodox among patriots ...
        1. Svobodny
          Svobodny 24 May 2013 09: 58 New
          -4
          Quote: Hon
          count the pros and cons

          And you read the site rules. Item D.