Between the plane and the ship - and behind both

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Between the plane and the ship - and behind both

The debate over ekranoplans is reminiscent of a medieval debate about demons on the head of a pin—equally emotional and detached from reality. Participants are debating the merits of a technology that has failed to prove its usefulness for decades.

On the other hand, the "demons of the three elements" are of considerable interest, as they touch upon issues across various fields of technology. Special thanks go to Vladimir Tyumentsev, who managed to shed new light on ekranoplans.



Indeed, if you factor out the cost of armament and R&D, the cost of the "Caspian monsters" was quite comparable to that of heavy military transport aircraft. At least, it was within reasonable limits.

Vladimir presented a very convincing argument on this point. Despite its enormous takeoff weight and multiple engines, the ekranoplan was designed without traditional landing gear, pressurized cabins, or complex wing mechanization. Its construction did not require expensive materials such as titanium.

Instead of thousands of rivets, there are rough welds.


The presence of individual expensive components, which the discussion participants drew attention to—such as the stabilization systems of the 380-ton flying machine or the hydro-ski device, which bears enormous loads when it touches the water—could hardly have significantly affected the final result.

The problem wasn't the prohibitive cost. The concept itself was far more questionable.

Strange choice of application niche.


Heavy seaplanes are usually cited as the closest analogues and examples for comparison, but their fate best demonstrates the limitations of this direction.

The characteristics that supposedly determine the superiority of ekranoplans over seaplanes—better seaworthiness or the ability to take off in 5-point waves—are of no significant importance in practice.

Six Be-200s from the Russian Ministry of Emergency Situations and several Japanese Shin Meiwas were enough to cover all global needs for heavy amphibious aircraft.

Comparing ekranoplans with ships raises even more questions: modern Navy ships are significantly larger.

The Karakurt small missile ships have a displacement of approximately 800 tons, the Project 22160 patrol ships have a displacement of approximately 1500 tons, and the Steregushchiy-class corvettes have a displacement of over 2000 tons.

The maximum takeoff weight of the Lun combat ekranoplan was 380 tons, which puts it outside the category of vehicles comparable in scale to even 3rd rank ships.

It's also worth recalling the role and functions. The value of ships is determined primarily not by speed, but by their endurance—the ability to remain in a given area for extended periods of time, operating for days, weeks, and even months without returning to base. If speed were the only deciding factor, a surface ship fleet would have long since lost its significance under the pressure aviationIt is autonomy that makes a ship what it is, and in this regard, the ekranoplan poorly meets the needs of the Navy.

Of course, there are also boats with a displacement of 400 tons. This weight class is considered a niche for ekranoplans.

This immediately raises the question of feasibility. Investing significant resources in this area, much less making a serious bet, is hardly justified in today's conditions. It's worth remembering that missile The Iranian Navy's boats, small corvettes, and catamarans proved to be the most convenient targets. While the destruction of other military installations still required considerable effort, the fleet of such units was sunk as if in a training exercise.

It is precisely into this niche, where technology perishes without even having time to prove its combat value, that proponents of ekranoplans are trying to squeeze their projects.

Small ship, big questions


As an example for his article, Vladimir chose the Project 1241 Molniya small missile boat (MRK), not least due to its unique propulsion system and cost, which is atypical for units of such a small size.


In world practice, boats with a displacement of several hundred tons are usually considered as inexpensive A tool for coastal operations. Examples include the Israeli Sa'ar 4.5-class missile boats, the Turkish Tuzla patrol boats, and the Vietnamese TT-400TP.


Saar 4.5 (built in the 1980s-90s) displacement of 430 tons, propulsion capacity of 16 hp, speed of 33-34 knots. Armed with small-sized Gabriel anti-ship missiles.
In contrast, Lightning was built by a "super-civilization"—a country with a colossal military budget, where even the most mundane decisions took on extraordinary proportions.

Soviet admirals wanted a small missile ship capable of reaching 42 knots in their fleet. However, water has its own "relativistic" effects: beyond approximately 30 knots, further increases in speed for displacement ships require an explosive increase in engine power.

The missile boat received a gas turbine plant with a power of approximately one-third that of the propulsion plant of a modern Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, despite a twenty-fold difference in displacement!


Four gas turbines, including two afterburners with a capacity of 12 thousand hp each

The Molniya was far from a simple and inexpensive boat. And in this situation, ekranoplan proponents saw their opportunity.

Flying over the waves, the Lun allowed for a speed of 240 knots for the same money!

For unclear reasons, the Navy command abandoned the "revolution" in the small fleet, continuing to order "conventional" small missile ships in quantities of dozens of units.

Perhaps the answer is obvious. When it comes to the seaworthiness of ekranoplans, their proponents usually turn the conversation to limitations on their use. weapons in a storm, since even for ordinary ships this indicator rarely exceeds 5 points. But this is a mistranslation of the question.

For a ship, the most important thing is not only its combat capability but also its ability to survive the storm itself. And here the differences become crucial. Displacement ships, even relatively small ones, are capable of withstanding the harshest weather conditions. The question of how an ekranoplan will perform remains largely rhetorical.


An excerpt from an interview with Tatyana Alekseeva, lead designer at the R. E. Alekseev Central Design Bureau for SPK

Another issue is battery life. Even the small Molniya had a battery life of 10 days.

Speculation about the Lun's combat use was based on its claimed endurance of five days. However, even this figure seemed implausible.

Fantasies and facts


Based on the data on the operation of the Lun, during the period of the most intensive testing the ekranoplan spent at sea... about four days. This is the total figure for all releases throughout 1989.

During other periods, the total duration of his “campaigns” did not exceed a couple of days a year.


The conclusion follows: within the allocated budget and the design solutions employed, a 380-ton vehicle capable of overwater flight was created. There are no references to the ekranoplan remaining at sea for any length of time.

For this reason, all combat techniques and plans for using the Lun missile carrier, developed in detail by its supporters, remain nothing more than “combat fiction.”

At a cruising speed of 400–500 km/h and a practical range of 2000 km, the main fuel supply will be consumed in a few hours. The remaining 100+ hours will have to be spent on the open sea, either in planing mode or drifting.

In his article, Vladimir pointed out the excellent stability and strength of the Lun's hull, which was close in thickness to ship standards.

But there are other questions.


For example, while afloat, the Lun rested on the water with its fuselage and wingtip components. This structure was constantly subject to bending loads. One wing panel could be caught by a wave, while the other was partially or completely out of the water. As a result, the load was distributed extremely unevenly, creating significant stress in the structure.

The stresses were concentrated in the wing root, which, by the way, had a span of 44 m. A value comparable to the width of an aircraft carrier's hull.

The closest analogy here is multihull vessels, such as the Independence-class littoral combat ships (LCS). Their operation has clearly demonstrated the problems this design is prone to.



The USS Omaha (LCS-12) is not permitted to operate in wave heights of 2,5 meters. Speeds of 15 knots are prohibited.

For a ship designed from the outset to be high-speed and capable of short sprints in excess of 45 knots, such limitations represent a serious reduction in its stated capabilities.
(navytimes.com)

It's worth noting that by that time, the Omaha had only been in service for about five years. Cracks in the area where the main and outrigger hulls met had appeared on all Independence-class ships.

Fatigue stresses in the joints of such a wide structure could also pose a problem for ekranoplans.

With enough effort, any technical problem has a solution. A titanium structure could combine the strength needed for days at sea with the lightness needed for flight. However, that's just too much dark humor.

Comments that are hard to argue with


The discussion participants raised objections and questions, many of which seemed at least justified.

In particular, the lack of engines optimized for low-altitude flight was noted. All existing turbojet engines are designed to operate in a thin atmosphere, where they achieve their greatest efficiency.

Ekranoplan designers were forced to use existing aircraft engines, a fact often celebrated by proponents of the "Caspian monsters." However, this only exacerbated already significant shortcomings. The development of specialized power plants for such a niche technology threatened to turn ekranoplans into truly "golden" products.

The "Caspian Monster" was powered by 10 VD-7 engines, the same type used on Tu-22 bombers. This was ironic: just two of these engines were sufficient to power a supersonic missile carrier with a combat radius of 2700 km and capable of launching anti-ship missiles weighing over five tons (the Kh-22).

The "Monster," in turn, demonstrated a record takeoff weight (544 tons), of which approximately 400 tons were the weight of the structure itself and the fuel, enough for a 1500-kilometer flight. Even at this stage, the project's full potential was already apparent. Nevertheless, work in this direction continued.

The Lun missile carrier received eight modified engines from the Il-86 passenger airliner, the main difference being their enhanced corrosion protection.

The Project 904 ("Orlyonok") landing ekranoplan utilized a turboprop engine from the Tu-95 bomber, as well as two nose-mounted lift jets from the Tu-154. While the Orlyonok's payload (28 tons) was quite mediocre by transport aviation standards, its cruising speed (approximately 350 km/h) and range (1500 km) were significantly inferior to those of an aircraft.

Obvious questions centered on the turning radius of large ekranoplans, which at cruising speed was several kilometers. This created obvious operational risks. Unlike airplanes, ekranoplans were unable to perform deep turns without the risk of their wings scraping the water. A collision at 400-500 km/h was comparable to hitting concrete.

The problem of bird ingestion remains unresolved. No statistics exist on this issue, as jets spend only a few seconds at such altitudes (10–20 meters). The Lun's total flight time (less than 80 hours) also prevented any conclusions about its safe operation at such altitudes.

It looked quite funny story The "Spasatel" ekranoplan. One of the key problems with this concept was the most obvious: detecting those in distress. In sea state five, a raft or boat lost among the wave crests is only visible from a height of 10-20 meters at a distance of several kilometers. This is approximately three to four times less than if searching from an altitude of at least 200 meters.

Epilogue


The history of ekranoplans is, first and foremost, the story of their creator. The image of a brilliant designer whose ideas were rejected by his contemporaries invariably captures the public's imagination.

But the beauty of technical exploration doesn't necessarily require every idea to be realized. The most absurd concepts eventually fade away.

The USSR readily funded daring ideas, and its military budget allowed for certain "eccentricities," such as the laser weapon aboard the timber carrier Dikson or a series of high-speed submarines powered by metal-cooled reactors.

If, under such favorable conditions, over a quarter of a century, Alekseev's design bureau managed to build only a few ekranoplans, this clearly speaks to the "prospects" of this direction.

Data on the operation of ekranoplans are taken from the article by V. A. Dementyev “The ideas of R. E. Alekseev in the service of the Fatherland.”
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  1. +9
    4 June 2026 05: 08
    The key phrase in the article is: "it hasn't proven its usefulness for decades." Why should ekranoplans have to? The usefulness of ekranoplans has been fully demonstrated by Ukrainian naval drones attacking our ships. So far, only light boats can "escape" these naval drones. Then there's the mine danger. For example, in the Baltic. During both WWI and WWII, the entire Baltic was literally riddled with mines. Large ships are certainly good, and they are definitely needed, for example as a powerful raider. But the Baltic and Black Seas are not the place to use them. Those are the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans. Otherwise, the fate of the cruiser Moskva.
    1. +4
      4 June 2026 05: 34
      Quote: fiberboard
      The key phrase in the article is: "it hasn't proven its usefulness for decades." Why should ekranoplans have to? The usefulness of ekranoplans has been fully demonstrated by Ukrainian naval drones attacking our ships. So far, only light boats can "escape" these naval drones. Then there's the mine danger. For example, in the Baltic. During both WWI and WWII, the entire Baltic was literally riddled with mines. Large ships are certainly good, and they are definitely needed, for example as a powerful raider. But the Baltic and Black Seas are not the place to use them. Those are the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans. Otherwise, the fate of the cruiser Moskva.


      I would even make it worse:

      An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.

      And in this mode, it can become a killer not only of aircraft carriers, but of any ship.
      1. +7
        4 June 2026 08: 30
        Quote: Eng Mech
        An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.

        There's a price issue there, it's cheaper to hit with ballistics.
        1. +2
          5 June 2026 02: 57
          Quote: qqqq
          Quote: Eng Mech
          An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.

          There's a price issue there, it's cheaper to hit with ballistics.


          Well, somehow Iran didn't succeed.
          1. +1
            5 June 2026 05: 09
            Quote: Ing Mech
            Quote: qqqq
            Quote: Eng Mech
            An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.

            There's a price issue there, it's cheaper to hit with ballistics.


            Well, somehow Iran didn't succeed.

            How could EP have helped? Could it have done better?
            1. 0
              5 June 2026 08: 55
              Quote: Tlauicol
              Quote: Ing Mech
              Quote: qqqq
              Quote: Eng Mech
              An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.

              There's a price issue there, it's cheaper to hit with ballistics.


              Well, somehow Iran didn't succeed.

              How could EP have helped? Could it have done better?


              They fired some ballistics, so what!?

              Why not, for example, a flock of FPV-BE-drones-waiters deployed in advance in a displacement mode, secretly carrying carrots in the form of anti-ship missiles with a swarm of false targets!?

              There may be different options.
      2. + 10
        4 June 2026 10: 44
        Quote: Eng Mech
        An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.

        Yes, you can. But why? ©
        What, traditional and unmanned aviation are not enough to solve the same problems?
        Quote: Eng Mech
        And in this mode, it can become a killer not only of aircraft carriers, but of any ship.

        Yes, yes, yes... the AUG's air defense system, designed to intercept supersonic missile carriers and supersonic heavy anti-ship missiles, will certainly miss a larger, less maneuverable, and slower target. You might as well attack the AUG with a low-flying An-22.
        1. -2
          4 June 2026 13: 27
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Yes, yes, yes... the AUG air defense system, designed to intercept supersonic missile carriers and supersonic heavy anti-ship missiles, will of course miss a larger, less maneuverable and slower target.

          Well, as a fireship, of course not, but in over-the-horizon missile launch mode, whether at external or self-designated targets, why not? Especially considering that it's not like every adversary has a dozen of these carrier-carrying groups.
        2. -2
          5 June 2026 03: 08
          Quote: Alexey RA
          What, traditional and unmanned aviation are not enough to solve the same problems?


          For example?

          Quote: Alexey RA
          With the same success, you can attack the AUG on a low-flying An-22


          If their numbers are capable of overloading the AUG's air defense, then absolutely.

          The question is probably in the number of tactics for using separable warheads and organizing the field of a swarm of targets

          Quote: Alexey RA
          AUG air defense system, designed to intercept supersonic missile carriers and supersonic heavy anti-ship missiles


          Is this why both airline passengers were moved away from Iran?

          Then missile boats and the like don't matter either.
          1. +2
            5 June 2026 11: 08
            Quote: Eng Mech
            For example?

            Why build a highly specialized ekranoplan for attacking ships when the same tasks can be performed by a squadron of conventional multi-role aircraft?
            Quote: Eng Mech
            If their numbers are capable of overloading the AUG's air defense, then absolutely.

            What's wrong with traditional air defense aviation? Why build a wunderwaffe from scratch, tailored to a narrow range of missions?
            Quote: Eng Mech
            Is this why both airline passengers were moved away from Iran?

            The aircraft carriers were removed from Iran because someone decided to repeat the beginning of the NBC war. Tehran in three days и At the sight of our troops, the Iranian people will rise up and overthrow Bandera mullah regime. laughing
            And then it became clear again that a cavalry charge wouldn't solve the problem. The force allocation for the operation should be calculated not according to Venezuela or Panama, but according to the first Iraq, or even according to Cold War standards. And the existing forces are clearly insufficient for cover in the current situation.
            Quote: Eng Mech
            Then missile boats and the like don't matter either.

            An extremely niche weapon that requires very little to be used—air dominance. Otherwise, it will be like Libya in the 80s.
            But here's the problem: if we have air superiority, that means we have airfields nearby. So why not use strike aircraft to strike the enemy—under the cover of the same forces that provide cover for the small missile ships and rocket ships?
            1. -1
              5 June 2026 11: 28
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Quote: Eng Mech
              For example?

              Why build a highly specialized ekranoplan for attacking ships when the same tasks can be performed by a squadron of conventional multi-role aircraft?
              Quote: Eng Mech
              If their numbers are capable of overloading the AUG's air defense, then absolutely.

              What's wrong with traditional air defense aviation? Why build a wunderwaffe from scratch, tailored to a narrow range of missions?
              Quote: Eng Mech
              Is this why both airline passengers were moved away from Iran?

              The aircraft carriers were removed from Iran because someone decided to repeat the beginning of the NBC war. Tehran in three days и At the sight of our troops, the Iranian people will rise up and overthrow Bandera mullah regime. laughing
              And then it became clear again that a cavalry charge wouldn't solve the problem. The force allocation for the operation should be calculated not according to Venezuela or Panama, but according to the first Iraq, or even according to Cold War standards. And the existing forces are clearly insufficient for cover in the current situation.
              Quote: Eng Mech
              Then missile boats and the like don't matter either.

              An extremely niche weapon that requires very little to be used—air dominance. Otherwise, it will be like Libya in the 80s.
              But here's the problem: if we have air superiority, that means we have airfields nearby. So why not use strike aircraft to strike the enemy—under the cover of the same forces that provide cover for the small missile ships and rocket ships?


              The ekranoplan design, as has already been proven by the example of at least the Harrier and the Orlyonok, is not a niche vehicle, unlike missile boats.

              Everything else can be discussed endlessly in scholastic form.

              The aircraft carriers are smoking on the sidelines.

              The fleets of Ukraine and Russia have not been destroyed, although this could be done "so easily and playfully" with existing means.

              Naturally, this does not mean that ekranoplans are a universal anti-ship weapon.

              But it is not highly specialized and this is where there is interest in a creative approach to the implementation of characteristics.

              Ten years ago, small quadcopters were a toy for wealthy video content creators.
      3. 0
        4 June 2026 19: 44
        Quote: Eng Mech
        I would even make it worse:

        So do I.
        Quote: Eng Mech
        And in this mode, it can become a killer not only of aircraft carriers, but of any ship.

        Dashtots. All you have to do is armour the nose, wings, and tail. And send them down the Dnieper. All Ukrainian bridges will be shattered into pieces. The enemy's logistics are disrupted, the pianist runs in panic under Ursula's skirt, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are crying and surrendering.
        An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.

        Turn an ekranoplan into a mothership? How sweet and progressive. Flying along the Dnieper River near Kyiv, your mothership will release thousands of tiny ekranoplans. They will fly into the most secret places and explode there with a terrifying roar, demoralizing the Banderites.
        1. 0
          5 June 2026 03: 26
          Quote: Winnie76
          Quote: Eng Mech
          I would even make it worse:

          So do I.
          Quote: Eng Mech
          And in this mode, it can become a killer not only of aircraft carriers, but of any ship.

          Dashtots. All you have to do is armour the nose, wings, and tail. And send them down the Dnieper. All Ukrainian bridges will be shattered into pieces. The enemy's logistics are disrupted, the pianist runs in panic under Ursula's skirt, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are crying and surrendering.
          An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.

          Turn an ekranoplan into a mothership? How sweet and progressive. Flying along the Dnieper River near Kyiv, your mothership will release thousands of tiny ekranoplans. They will fly into the most secret places and explode there with a terrifying roar, demoralizing the Banderites.


          You won't believe it, but the harrier is the PKR's aircraft mother.

          Is there nowhere else to fly besides the Dnieper?

          And Kyiv is also an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the steppes of Ukraine.

          Bridges can be destroyed in other ways. It's just that it's not obvious to anyone who could make such a decision.
    2. +7
      4 June 2026 10: 41
      Quote: fiberboard
      The usefulness of ekranoplans has been fully demonstrated by Ukrainian naval drones attacking our ships. So far, only light boats can "escape" these naval drones.

      You forgot the keyword - Ukrainian naval drones attacking our ships in bases and parking lots.
      On the open sea, even the Khurs fought off the BEKs with its MTPUs. But at base or at anchor, without an OVR, both conventional ships and ekranoplans will become equally vulnerable targets.
      The problem with our ships' destruction isn't their technical specifications. The problem lies in their base defense systems.
      Quote: fiberboard
      Mine danger again. For example, in the Baltic.

      And ekranoplans won't help here. Because the mines' main target is the merchant fleet, which can't be converted to ekranoplans.

      And yes, what tasks are ekranoplans supposed to perform in closed seas? Correction: what tasks can only they perform, and not conventional aircraft?
      1. -1
        4 June 2026 13: 36
        Quote: Alexey RA
        And at the base or at the parking lot, in the absence of the OVR, both traditional ships and ekranoplans will equally become targets.

        At least the EP could very quickly escape the expected strike, even flying over the boom-net barriers. Purely speculative.

        Quote: Alexey RA
        The problem with our ships' destruction isn't their technical specifications. The problem lies in their base defense systems.
        But the author doesn't think so. Or rather, he misses the point.

        Quote: Alexey RA
        Correction: what tasks can only they perform, and not regular aircraft?
        Do we still have seas like this?
        And any missions related to coastal, non-airfield basing and long-term stays at sea. That is, those that should be performed by small vessels/ships, only with a significant advantage in speed.
        1. +2
          4 June 2026 14: 07
          We don't have enough booms to place them three kilometers from the base for the takeoff of the EP.
          1. 0
            5 June 2026 03: 24
            Quote: Tlauicol
            We don't have enough booms to place them three kilometers from the base for the takeoff of the EP.
            I don't recall the Lun's performance showing a 3 km acceleration. The Il-76, with the same thrust-to-weight ratio, has a 1500-2000 km acceleration. Taking into account the underwing boost, which is used to shorten the takeoff run, that's what the Lun's acceleration will be, maybe even less, even though it's a submarine. And the dimensions of Sevastopol Bay, for example, are 7 km by 1,5 km, if that means anything to you...
            If it's not enough, Lun will definitely plane very quickly. With its size, bottom shape, and skin thickness, rolling over is a daunting task.
            1. +2
              5 June 2026 05: 13
              Lun's 3,5km run-up. He won't leave the bay on the screen.
              1. +1
                5 June 2026 05: 52
                Quote: Tlauicol
                Lun's 3,5km run-up. He won't leave the bay on the screen.

                I don't know where you got that figure. The Orlyonok, three times lighter but also three times less powerful, took off in 2-3 km, depending on sea conditions.
                Obviously, the sea is calm where we're moored. So, should the EP accelerate across the bay?
                The length of Ulysses Bay in Vlv is 2 km.
                The length of the Golden Horn Bay is 7 km.
                The nets are placed at the entrance, often with a curve towards the sea.
                I don't know what you're thinking, but bases are rarely designated near a straight coastline, so there's no need to surround them in a semicircle...
                1. +1
                  5 June 2026 06: 44
                  Source: Pavel Kachur, "Designer of Winged Ships," 3,5 km
                  Sevastopol Bay will have to be cleared of equipment, traffic will have to be dispersed, and all the buoys and barrels will have to be removed. Even then, it's difficult to fit in.
                  For the sake of basing the EP?
                2. +2
                  5 June 2026 06: 52
                  And this is the Golden Horn. Well, if you want to demolish a bridge or ram a cruiser, then sure. But why your own?
                  1. +1
                    5 June 2026 09: 42
                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    Pavel Kachur, "Designer of Winged Ships," 3,5 km

                    The book is alright, especially the ones about KM and Orlyonok, but the one about Lun is complete nonsense. Flying a maximum of 2,5 meters above the waves is obviously nonsense. However, I won't argue with the 3,5 km limit.

                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    Well, if you want to demolish a bridge or ram a cruiser, then yes. But why your own?
                    The bridge and the cruiser are funny. The bridge is at least fifty meters long, and what kind of cruiser is it, by the way? I don't understand how it's in the way, it's not nailed to the water.
                    However, speed and maneuverability while planing allow you to overcome the booms without completely moving to the screen.
                    1. +1
                      5 June 2026 10: 02
                      You don't know what kind of cruiser is on the tof?
                      Well, I'm telling you: remove everything so it doesn't interfere with the EP's speed in the bay. From the barrels and buoys to the cruiser. And it'll crawl over the booms while planing, right?
                      Novorossiysk bonds
                      1. 0
                        8 June 2026 04: 26
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        You don't know what kind of cruiser is on the tof?

                        I don't see this cruiser in the photo of the bay, much less how it's blocking passage...

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Well, I'm telling you: remove everything so it doesn't interfere with the EP's speed in the bay. From the barrels and buoys to the cruiser. And it'll crawl over the booms while planing, right?
                        Are you still having trouble determining scale from the images? The Lun is 44 meters wide. Where in the photo would it be unable to squeeze through? Well, racing through the bay and leaving it are quite different actions. When alarmed, small fish are required to retreat to the corners. And the fairway, for the shallow-draft Lun, can be much wider than for the NK.

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Novorossiysk bonds
                        Firstly, the photo doesn't show the height and design of the wide booms—let's assume they're impassable. Secondly, flexible booms are the most commonly used and are quite surmountable for fairly large vessels on a plane. Modifying the booms to make them easier to surmount from the INSIDE is a minor problem.
                      2. +2
                        8 June 2026 05: 09
                        So you're saying that the Lun missile will accelerate and take off in Vladivostok Bay when triggered? (C) "Overflying the boom barriers." It will collect everything there, including the bridge supports, ships, and coastal structures.
                        If you're interested, take a look at the Novorossiysk booms. They're barges, like those at the Crimean Bridge.
                        In Sevastopol, there are three rows of such booms at the exit of the bay. Another one is in the middle of the bay.
                      3. 0
                        8 June 2026 06: 11
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        So you're saying that the Lun submarine will accelerate in Vladivostok Bay and take off when alerted? (C) "flying over boom barriers."

                        Well, if you think that the ships won't be able to be based anywhere except Vladivostok, Sevastopol, and Novorossiysk, then why not?
                        What a charming disregard for important data, so typical of EP opponents. Hello, I actually wrote about planing.

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        He will collect everything there, along with the bridge supports, ships and coastal structures.
                        Naturally, keep your eyes peeled. The bridge's span is at least 150 meters wide and its height is at least fifty meters.

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        In Sevastopol, there are three rows of such booms at the exit of the bay. Another one is in the middle of the bay.
                        The locations suitable for basing these ships are not limited to these naval bases. Even nearby berthing stations could be established to provide air defense cover, for which flexible boom-net barriers are particularly suitable.
        2. +3
          4 June 2026 16: 43
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          At least the EP could very quickly escape the expected strike, even flying over the boom-net barriers. Purely speculative.

          A standard naval ship can, in the same amount of time, prepare to repel an attack with all its air defense assets, not just its upper watch and riflemen.
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          And any tasks related to coastal non-airfield basing and long-term stay on the water.

          These are methods. But what are the tasks? What are the goals of the EP?
          1. 0
            5 June 2026 03: 28
            Quote: Alexey RA
            A conventional NK can, in the same amount of time, prepare to repel an attack with all air defense systems.

            And how will this help Karakurt, for example, against two anti-ship missiles? Aren't you laughing at that?


            Quote: Alexey RA
            These are methods. But what are the tasks? What are the goals of the EP?

            What methods? Basing? The tasks are exactly the same as for other small ships, only surface ones. Or do you think there are no tasks for small surface ships in Russia's coastal and near-sea zones?
            1. +1
              5 June 2026 11: 18
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              And how will this help Karakurt, for example, against two anti-ship missiles?

              If a ship at base is attacked by a pair of anti-ship missiles, then the OVR must be dispersed and the defense of the bases must be handed back to the army.
              Incidentally, a small missile ship should be able to defend itself against a single anti-ship missile. Its air defenses are a cut-out section of the large ship's air defense system: a last line of defense designed specifically for finishing off single targets.
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              And the missions are exactly the same as for other small ships, only surface ones. Or do you think there are no missions for small surface ships in Russia's coastal and near-sea zones?

              In its current state, no. Without air cover, the entire small fleet is a target.
              And with the presence of air cover, it becomes unnecessary, since the same tasks can be carried out by strike aircraft with the same cover.
              1. 0
                8 June 2026 07: 05
                Quote: Alexey RA
                If a ship at base is attacked by a pair of anti-ship missiles, then the OVR must be dispersed and the defense of the bases must be handed back to the army.

                Well, it’s obvious that ships are built to be kept in bases.

                Quote: Alexey RA
                Incidentally, a small missile ship should be able to defend itself against a single anti-ship missile. Its air defenses are a cut-out section of the large ship's air defense system: a last line of defense designed specifically for finishing off single targets.

                It's a shame this piece is only operational at limited angles. But that's not the problem; the problem is that even helicopters can carry more than one anti-ship missile.

                Quote: Alexey RA
                In its current state, no. Without air cover, the entire small fleet is a target.
                Only if enemy aircraft have air superiority and there is no countermeasure against long-range weapons are anti-ship missiles fully capable of repelling anti-ship missiles, even with their speed alone.

                Quote: Alexey RA
                And with the presence of air cover, it becomes unnecessary, since the same tasks can be carried out by strike aircraft with the same cover.
                The military aviation is particularly adept at mine countermeasures and anti-submarine warfare. I have a strong feeling that the very word "ekranoplan" makes some people turn into the author of this article...
      2. 0
        4 June 2026 15: 35
        Yes, it seems there is a video where a Ukrainian naval drone attacks our patrol ship at sea and destroys it.
        1. +4
          4 June 2026 16: 45
          Quote: fiberboard
          Yes, it seems there is a video where a Ukrainian naval drone attacks our patrol ship at sea and destroys it.

          Isn't that "Kotov," by any chance, in the area where ships are moored near the Crimean Bridge? That's not the sea, but a watchman's nightmare—ships in all directions.
          1. 0
            4 June 2026 17: 30
            Well, yes, apparently it is. You can see how the crew is trying to fight back and maneuver.
          2. 0
            8 June 2026 22: 42
            And the "Kotov" is not a patrol ship, but, roughly speaking, an incomprehensible vessel with a cannon and a couple of machine guns, which can be used to chase away pirates and border violators, but is in no way suited for war, when the enemy has serious weapons.
            They should have been handed over to the border guards right away; that's where they belong.
      3. +1
        5 June 2026 03: 51
        Quote: Alexey RA
        You forgot the key word - Ukrainian naval drones attacking our ships at bases and in anchorages.


        I had to figure out how it happened that ships that could fight off everything (as you counter your opponents' points) on the open sea were, in one case, driven into bases far from the enemy, and in the second case, far from the enemy whose fleet they destroyed.
        1. +1
          5 June 2026 11: 13
          Quote: Eng Mech
          I had to figure out how it happened that ships that could fight off everything (as you counter your opponents' points) on the open sea were, in one case, driven into bases far from the enemy, and in the second case, far from the enemy whose fleet they destroyed.

          Because there are no tasks for the fleet.
          All the Navy can do now is fire SLCMs at the enemy. But the problem is, a conventional missile brigade can do the same job much more effectively. And the Navy has more missions. permitted for execution and possible for executionNo, we're in the second edition of WWII, except that there's a clear route to Sevastopol by land, and there's no need to support the army's coastal flank.
          1. +1
            5 June 2026 11: 35
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Quote: Eng Mech
            I had to figure out how it happened that ships that could fight off everything (as you counter your opponents' points) on the open sea were, in one case, driven into bases far from the enemy, and in the second case, far from the enemy whose fleet they destroyed.

            Because there are no tasks for the fleet.
            All the Navy can do now is fire SLCMs at the enemy. But the problem is, a conventional missile brigade can do the same job much more effectively. And the Navy has more missions. permitted for execution and possible for executionNo, we're in the second edition of WWII, except that there's a clear route to Sevastopol by land, and there's no need to support the army's coastal flank.


            Well, if no, then no.

            The World Fleet is also a niche, expensive toy.

            Hooray!

            A bullet is a fool, a bayonet is a fine fellow
    3. +5
      4 June 2026 12: 44
      The usefulness of ekranoplans has been fully demonstrated by Ukrainian naval drones attacking our ships.
      rather, they demonstrated the incompetence of the admirals
  2. + 14
    4 June 2026 05: 10
    I'm not sure that the author's attempt to portray ekranoplans in a negative light was successful.
    1. The Rescuer's shortcomings in search and detection are clear. However, it could rescue those already located much faster than a ship. It's faster.
    2. As was rightly noted in the article, ekranoplans were used very little, so it is impossible to draw conclusions about their unsuccessful operation.
    3. A combat ekranoplan-missile carrier wouldn't need to spend ten days at sea. Its primary mission was to deliver missiles to the launch site and, if possible, return to base. This doesn't require weeks at sea. And yes, an ekranoplan would perform this task better than a ship. Due to its higher speed, lower visibility to the enemy (I'm not talking about satellites here; this giant is easily visible from satellites), and lower vulnerability. I'd like to point out that in a combat situation with a serious adversary, say the United States, ekranoplans, like most ships, aircraft, and tanks, are expendable. They should be sufficient to complete the mission, and beyond that, it's a matter of luck. And if the cost of an ekranoplan was comparable to a small missile ship, but it surpassed the small missile ship in speed and the number of missiles it could carry, then it would be preferable to a small missile ship for combat use. Incidentally, a small missile ship has a larger crew, which is also important.
    So, I believe it's simply impossible to give a truly objective assessment of ekranoplans. This would require extensive and intensive use of the vehicle, along with comprehensive practical testing. Unfortunately, combat ekranoplans currently do not exist.
    1. +6
      4 June 2026 06: 11
      I completely agree with you! This article is unconvincing and biased.
    2. +4
      4 June 2026 08: 33
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      The ekranoplans were used for a negligible amount of time, so it is impossible to draw conclusions about their unsuccessful operation.

      On the other hand, it's impossible to draw conclusions about successful operation. On the contrary, this allows, with a high degree of probability, to draw conclusions about the unsuccessful concept.
      1. +2
        4 June 2026 08: 51
        On the other hand, one cannot draw conclusions about successful operation.

        I agree. If we take the entire period during which the ekranoplans were built and used, we can't say anything at all. Neither about the success nor failure of the concept or operation. This is because, firstly, there's no complete breakdown of the tests—a large part of them, apparently, is classified—and secondly, as I understand it, there were no full-scale tests.
        They would require a different volume of flights and combat training. Assessing the ship's radar visibility and assessing its ability to both engage in combat and evade various threats, missiles, and enemy aircraft.
        There is too little information to make categorical assessments.
        1. +1
          4 June 2026 16: 31
          The question here is that perhaps after the first flights, the concept of ekranoplans became clear—at least at this stage of scientific and industrial development. Hence the loss of interest in further testing.
          1. +1
            4 June 2026 17: 37
            The question here is that perhaps after the first flights the dead-end nature of the ekranoplan concept became clear.
            I disagree. Let's draw an analogy. Buran's flight, in automatic mode, was the only one. Does that mean Buran was also a dead end?
            1. +1
              4 June 2026 18: 48
              Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
              Does this mean that Buran was also a dead end?

              Before Buran, the Shuttle had already flown for quite some time. This isn't the same example. Perhaps we could cite the example of a forward-swept aircraft. That didn't last more than a few flights either.
              1. +1
                5 June 2026 06: 03
                Before Buran, the Shuttle had already flown for quite some time. This isn't the same example.
                The shuttle, as far as I remember, never flew in automatic mode. Buran made its only fully automated flight. And their designs were different.
                The forward sweep also had a lot of disadvantages at certain flight speeds.
    3. 0
      4 June 2026 08: 59
      It can also be used as a landing craft over a mined sea. For example, "a division breakthrough into Odessa." Seize the coast, and then clear the mines and receive the main forces.
      1. +3
        4 June 2026 09: 09
        It can also be used as a landing craft over a mined sea.

        You know about the existence of anti-aircraft mines, right?
        1. +2
          4 June 2026 09: 33
          Why bother? A standard TM62 mine on the shore, or a yoke or PDM in the water—that'll be enough. There are few places where an anti-tank mine can crawl ashore. Abatis, dragon's teeth, hedgehogs... If you're too lazy, just throw in some domestic anti-tank mines with a rod or NATO magnetic ones.
          1. -2
            5 June 2026 04: 15
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Why bother? A standard TM62 mine on the shore, or a yoke or PDM in the water—that'll be enough. There are few places where an anti-tank mine can crawl ashore. Abatis, dragon's teeth, hedgehogs... If you're too lazy, just throw in some domestic anti-tank mines with a rod or NATO magnetic ones.


            I have already proven to you that ekranoplans have a flight mode similar to an airplane.

            They don't have to crawl out onto the shore.
            1. 0
              5 June 2026 05: 16
              Proven? Where and when?
              And with troops and equipment? And with the landing and disembarkation of all this?
              Do you seriously believe this?
              1. 0
                5 June 2026 09: 18
                Quote: Tlauicol
                Proven? Where and when?
                And with troops and equipment? And with the landing and disembarkation of all this?
                Do you seriously believe this?


                This is some kind of nightmare
                This is not exactly for you, but to illustrate the level of your argument.

                One can probably guess that at the very least one can find a suitable body of water in the rear beyond the sea coastline.
                1. 0
                  5 June 2026 09: 42
                  No, this is worse than a nightmare. This is already a cult.
                  "You can probably guess that you can at least find a suitable body of water in the rear beyond the sea coastline" - ha, it's just a penny! Thanks, you convinced me.
                  1. 0
                    5 June 2026 10: 14
                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    No, this is worse than a nightmare. This is already a cult.
                    "You can probably guess that you can at least find a suitable body of water in the rear beyond the sea coastline" - ha, it's just a penny! Thanks, you convinced me.


                    Sectarianism is a complete denial of technical and popular science literature in favor of the obscurity and personal, very meager experience.

                    What is, is.
        2. +3
          4 June 2026 13: 49
          Quote: Santa Fe
          You know about the existence of anti-aircraft mines, right?

          Did you know they're anti-helicopter? Only a handful have been produced, and they haven't been used in real life. More importantly, they'll need to be used to sow vast areas, and they're strictly for mining narrow, radar-protected areas where helicopters are at risk. Not for large-scale, area-wide attacks.
        3. +2
          5 June 2026 04: 13
          Quote: Santa Fe
          It can also be used as a landing craft over a mined sea.

          You know about the existence of anti-aircraft mines, right?


          I can just watch how these mines (and their modified analogues) have reduced to zero the threat of enemy UAVs on the front.

          Can you find at least one example?
      2. +5
        4 June 2026 10: 48
        Quote: Carib
        Capture the coast, and only then clear the mines and receive the main forces.

        To solve this problem, there is no need to build ekranoplans from scratch:

        Incidentally, it has even fewer restrictions on the landing zone than the ekranoplan - it comes ashore above the surface, and is not thrown out.
        1. +1
          4 June 2026 11: 10
          Incidentally, it has even fewer restrictions on the landing zone than the ekranoplan - it comes ashore above the surface, and is not thrown out.
          Why do you think ekranoplans wash ashore?! Ekranoplans can fly over both water and land, the main thing is not to hit any tall vertical structures. The surface doesn't matter at all—earth, sand... Ekranoplans fly through the air because their wings create an air screen, a kind of air cushion. Hovercraft and ekranoplans are similar in this regard. The cushion is just created differently, that's all.
          1. +1
            4 June 2026 11: 31
            Show me a surface where an aircraft with a turning radius of 2-3 km and a speed of 400-500 km/h can fly for at least half an hour without crashing into a pole, wires, a house, a tree, a pipe, a hill, etc. And where there is a worthy target or landing point.
            1. +3
              4 June 2026 13: 58
              Show me a surface where an aircraft with a turning radius of 2-3 km and a speed of 400-500 km/h can fly for at least half an hour without crashing into a pole, wires, a house, a tree, a pipe, a hill, etc. And where there is a worthy target or landing point.

              I was in Odessa in the 70s and 80s. And in Ochakov. There are plenty of landing spots.
              Next. The flight altitude of an ekranoplan can reach 20-30 meters. That's for a pure ekranoplan. Not a ground-effect craft. Read the materials on ground-effect craft. And then. Why do you think an ekranoplan has to fly at 400 km/h? Can't it operate at a lower speed? It can. Please think about it. 500 km/h is the maximum speed. If we take the real one, it's 400 km/h. Cruising speed, then, is around 350. But who said an ekranoplan can't fly over the surface at a lower speed? Who, and where? What was the minimum for the KM? And for Lun?
              Next. What does a turn have to do with it? The EP arrived, dropped off a couple of infantry platoons, a tank, and an infantry fighting vehicle. Takeoff. Straight ahead, then a turn. Yes, the range will be nowhere near that of a fighter. Yes, it's vulnerable at that point. Should I tell you all the crew options?
              1. The vehicle simply remains on the sand. The crew is airlifted to base. The paratroopers engage in combat. Several more assault forces arrive next, bringing reinforcements. A tank company, an infantry company, several infantry fighting vehicles. Not enough?
              The remaining EPs in the landing zone will almost certainly be hit or even destroyed. However, despite the EP being as expensive as a small missile ship, and unlike a small missile ship, having accomplished its mission, their production is streamlined. Those destroyed, after the beachhead is expanded, are simply dismantled and resmelted.
              What's wrong? Please provide a reason if you plan to answer.
              1. 0
                4 June 2026 14: 10
                I didn't ask you about the sea. I asked about the snow, the sand. Don't be silly. It doesn't matter.
                So: show me such a surface...
                1. +1
                  4 June 2026 15: 06
                  I didn't ask you about the sea. About the snow, the sand.
                  What's that about? Can you tell me the height of the anti-tank hedgehog?
                  Mines on the sand - even on the asphalt surface: will they affect a car that doesn't touch them?
                  The EP could rise up to 30 meters above the surface. It could operate in at least a force 5 sea state. (Can you tell me the height of a force 5 storm or waves?)
                  So, I'm waiting. The flight surface for the EP is any, more or less flat.
                  1. 0
                    4 June 2026 16: 31
                    Once again... Power line poles, hills, trees, buildings, pipes... At least half an hour of flight over sand or snow...
                    You can only land troops on rare (disappearing) pieces of coastline.
                    Don't pretend you don't understand the question, waiter.
                    1. +1
                      4 June 2026 17: 43
                      Once again... Power line poles, hills, trees, buildings, pipes... At least half an hour of flight over sand or snow...
                      Don't confuse soft with warm. The ekranoplan will fly easily over any horizontal surface.
                      You can only land troops on rare (disappearing) pieces of coastline.
                      Please elaborate. Why are parts of the coast disappearing? And why only on rare occasions?! There's plenty of space there to land troops.
                      Don't pretend you don't understand the question, waiter.
                      First, explain who I'm waiting for, and where? Just kidding. If you leave the question unanswered, I think I'll write to the moderators. Unfounded accusations are usually even considered in court. Just for your information.
                      1. 0
                        4 June 2026 18: 13
                        I don't know what you're expecting when you write "waiting." You can report it to the moderators, you waiter. This isn't the first time I've done this.
                        And reread my first question to you. Carefully. And twice. Three times is better.
                      2. +1
                        4 June 2026 18: 43
                        And reread my first question to you. Carefully. And twice. Three times is better.

                        I reread it and replied. Apparently you didn't read it carefully.
                        Show me a surface where an aircraft with a turning radius of 2-3 km and a speed of 400-500 km/h can fly for at least half an hour without crashing into a pole, wires, a house, a tree, a pipe, a hill, etc. And where there is a worthy target or landing point.
                        This is your question.
                        I was in Odessa in the 70s and 80s. And in Ochakov. There are plenty of landing spots.
                        Next. The flight altitude of an ekranoplan can reach 20-30 meters. That's for a pure ekranoplan. Not a ground-effect craft. Read the materials on ground-effect craft. And then. Why do you think an ekranoplan has to fly at 400 km/h? Can't it operate at a lower speed? It can. Please think about it. 500 km/h is the maximum speed. If we take the real one, it's 400 km/h. Cruising speed, then, is around 350. But who said an ekranoplan can't fly over the surface at a lower speed? Who, and where? What was the minimum for the KM? And for Lun?
                        Next. What does a turn have to do with it? The EP arrived, dropped off a couple of infantry platoons, a tank, and an infantry fighting vehicle. Takeoff. Straight ahead, then a turn. Yes, the range will be nowhere near that of a fighter. Yes, it's vulnerable at that point. Should I tell you all the crew options?
                        1. The vehicle simply remains on the sand. The crew is airlifted to base. The paratroopers engage in combat. Several more assault forces arrive next, bringing reinforcements. A tank company, an infantry company, several infantry fighting vehicles. Not enough?
                        The remaining EPs in the landing zone will almost certainly be hit or even destroyed. However, despite the EP being as expensive as a small missile ship, and unlike a small missile ship, having accomplished its mission, their production is streamlined. Those destroyed, after the beachhead is expanded, are simply dismantled and resmelted.
                        That was the answer. Learn to read carefully.
                      3. 0
                        4 June 2026 19: 32
                        Once again. The last one.
                        It was not a question of landing on the coast with the ep.
                        What about flying over snow or sand for any significant amount of time? Not landing on coastal sand. But flying over a flat sandy/snowy surface (any flat surface, as you described) for landing troops. Where is this applicable?
                        Reread your comment, my first question, and don't pretend to be a simpleton.
                      4. 0
                        5 June 2026 06: 05
                        And a flight over a flat sandy/snowy surface (any flat surface, as you described) for landing troops. Where applicable.

                        Any relatively flat surface is suitable for EP flight.
                      5. +1
                        4 June 2026 19: 43
                        "Show me a surface where an aircraft with a turning radius of 2-3 km and a speed of 400-500 km/h can fly for at least half an hour without crashing into a pole, wires, house, tree, pipe, hill, etc., etc. And where there is a worthy target or landing point."
                        That was a question about your comment. Please answer that, not about going to the beach in Odessa.
          2. +3
            4 June 2026 16: 49
            Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
            Why do you think that the ekranoplan is thrown ashore?!

            Because, according to the topic starter's terms, he needs to land troops. And on the shore, not in the deep sea. smile
            1. 0
              4 June 2026 17: 47
              Because according to the topic starter's terms
              So, if the car goes ten kilometers deeper into the shore, it doesn’t count?! laughing
              1. 0
                4 June 2026 18: 16
                Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
                Because according to the topic starter's terms
                So, if the car goes ten kilometers deeper into the shore, it doesn’t count?! laughing

                Fiction on the second floor
                1. +1
                  4 June 2026 18: 46
                  Fiction on the second floor

                  Even on the eighth. There are the machine's parameters. There are where and how it flies. Science fiction is Fedor the robot. Science fiction is Rozgozin's fairy tales. But here there are facts.
                  1. +1
                    4 June 2026 19: 36
                    Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
                    Fiction on the second floor

                    Even on the eighth. There are the machine's parameters. There are where and how it flies. Science fiction is Fedor the robot. Science fiction is Rozgozin's fairy tales. But here there are facts.

                    Facts in the studio. Yes
                    "The landing craft advanced ten kilometers inland and landed troops. Parameters confirmed. Hooray, comrades!"
                    It's on the second floor. Yes
              2. 0
                5 June 2026 11: 24
                Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
                So, if the car goes ten kilometers deeper into the shore, it doesn’t count?! laughing

                What will the landing force do there, ten kilometers from the shore? Die heroically after running out of ammunition?
                For landing forces, the coast is the only supply route. And, as the experience of domestic landings has shown, a landing force cut off from the sea quickly perishes.
                And if we're deploying troops with the intention of linking up with ground forces, then why do we need an ekranoplan? Are helicopters out of fashion? Where a huge ekranoplan can penetrate air defense, so can rotary-wing aircraft.
        2. +1
          4 June 2026 13: 53
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Incidentally, it has even fewer restrictions on the landing zone than the ekranoplan - it comes ashore above the surface, and is not thrown out.

          What nonsense about being thrown out. The Orlyonok was perfectly capable of coming ashore and maneuvering smoothly there. It had significantly greater speed and range. And, by the way, seaworthiness. Because even skeg-powered hovercraft, not amphibious ones, lose speed sharply in rough seas.
          1. +2
            4 June 2026 16: 48
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            What nonsense about being thrown out. The eaglet just came ashore perfectly and maneuvered there without any problems.

            Exit, land, and take off? Our mission is to land troops. That is, the EP must lie on its belly and open its hold to unload infantry and equipment—preferably not in deep water. Then—take off.
            1. +3
              4 June 2026 17: 05
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Exit, land, and take off? Our mission is to land troops. That is, the EP must lie on its belly and open its hold to unload infantry and equipment—preferably not in deep water. Then—take off.

              And what prevented it from landing on its belly, disembarking troops, and, having become 20-28 tons lighter, rolling back into the water and taking off?
              Or maybe the hovercraft took off differently?
              1. +1
                5 June 2026 11: 30
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                And what prevented it from landing on its belly, disembarking troops, and, having become 20-28 tons lighter, rolling back into the water and taking off?
                Or maybe the hovercraft took off differently?

                The DKVP didn't roll anywhere. It "rose on a cushion" and floated above the surface, without any support from it.
                1. 0
                  8 June 2026 07: 08
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  The DKVP didn't roll anywhere. It "rose on a cushion" and floated above the surface, without any support from it.

                  So, amphibious RVs, not on chassis, but on a booster cushion, were used to launch onto the shore and to depart after landing. Moreover, the RVs' high cross-country ability is mentioned.
            2. +2
              5 June 2026 04: 39
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              What nonsense about being thrown out. The eaglet just came ashore perfectly and maneuvered there without any problems.

              Exit, land, and take off? Our mission is to land troops. That is, the EP must lie on its belly and open its hold to unload infantry and equipment—preferably not in deep water. Then—take off.


              You can also use Yandex search for "Orlyonok landing"
              1. 0
                5 June 2026 05: 21
                Only the amateur Grandfather spoke about flights with landing troops over a "more or less flat" surface, including snow and sand, 10 km deep into the territory.
                Ask him and yourself about it. Or use Yandex.
                1. +2
                  5 June 2026 06: 27
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  Only the amateur Grandfather spoke about flights with landing troops over a "more or less flat" surface, including snow and sand, 10 km deep into the territory.

                  And Alexey RA about "washing up on the shore".
                  1. -1
                    5 June 2026 06: 36
                    Grandpa is the main reason for the argument. You've been driving around the beach for two days. You won't be able to get 10 km inland.
                    1. +1
                      5 June 2026 09: 01
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Grandpa is the main reason for the argument. You've been driving around the beach for two days. You won't be able to get 10 km inland.

                      No, actually, the conversation about flying over a flat surface came up precisely after Alexey’s comment with a photo of the hovercraft.
                      Although, theoretically, a breakthrough along the river mouth, flying over the bridges, landing on the river, and disembarking on the river beach is entirely possible. But in practice, at best, a single aircraft would be possible.
                      1. 0
                        5 June 2026 09: 56
                        Just look at the photo of the Dnieper estuary. They'd need a helicopter or a plane there. Or a complete clearing and demolition of all structures, i.e., a new world for the EP.
                2. -2
                  5 June 2026 09: 36

                  https://youtu.be/KTEcGdpIc08?si=YfvxodI7lbFAshFq
                  1. 0
                    5 June 2026 09: 50
                    Mozart. A Little Night Music. good
                    No, you should have included Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries and the landing down the Dnieper in February 22 on the Petrel. How is he doing, by the way?
                    Just capture the Dnieper first, that's all
                    By the way, did you just show me a plane flight deep into the territory, or what was that you wanted?
                    1. +1
                      5 June 2026 10: 07
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Mozart. A Little Night Music. good
                      No, you should have included Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries and the landing down the Dnieper in February 22 on the Petrel. How is he doing, by the way?
                      Just capture the Dnieper first, that's all
                      By the way, did you just show me a plane flight deep into the territory, or what was that you wanted?


                      By the way, I showed you the flight you so desired over a hard, flat surface.

                      Regarding the aircraft, there are the calculated declared performance characteristics, and popular science literature, quotes from which I cited earlier.

                      If you're starting to play the "see it in person then I'll believe it" game, then you're not talking to me.

                      You're trolling someone else.
                      1. 0
                        5 June 2026 10: 19
                        You also cited literature detailing, down to the hour, how long each EP spent testing. Sea trips, screen modes, and so on. Everything, down to the last detail, except... flying like an airplane.
                        If I show you an EP on Lake Baikal in winter, you'll probably say: "See? We could deploy troops to the Dnieper Reservoirs or even Lake Balaton, right? On Ivolga. Or even on Orlyonok."
                      2. +2
                        5 June 2026 11: 20
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        You also cited literature detailing, down to the hour, how long each EP spent testing. Sea trips, screen modes, and so on. Everything, down to the last detail, except... flying like an airplane.
                        If I show you an EP on Lake Baikal in winter, you'll probably say: "See? We could deploy troops to the Dnieper Reservoirs or even Lake Balaton, right? On Ivolga. Or even on Orlyonok."


                        Everything that you can basically show me on this topic I have most likely already seen.

                        And I already answered you that most likely, it did not come to demonstrating this characteristic, since the program was already closed/on the verge of closing, and this could have possibly worsened the pushback against the EP by various departments.

                        In short, it's not particularly interesting to talk to the sect of anti-ekranoplan witnesses.

                        I do this for people who believe in people like you, but I don’t have any missionary work to do in this matter.
                3. -1
                  5 June 2026 09: 41
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  Only the amateur Grandfather spoke about flights with landing troops over a "more or less flat" surface, including snow and sand, 10 km deep into the territory.
                  Ask him and yourself about it. Or use Yandex.


                  Why don't you start using search engines yourself?

                  For example, in Yandex Burevestnik 24

                  I was specifically looking for music that would match your pathetic and epic fail.
                  https://youtu.be/KTEcGdpIc08?si=YfvxodI7lbFAshFq
              2. 0
                5 June 2026 11: 33
                Quote: Eng Mech
                You can also use Yandex search for "Orlyonok landing"

                I remember these photos. Notice the ground at the landing zone—the ruts are shallow, and the truck and bus sit securely and don't sink.
                This is exactly what I meant when I wrote that the DKVP has far fewer restrictions on landing areas - it only cares about the density of the soil in order to ensure that the dropped equipment does not get stuck right after leaving the ramp.
                1. 0
                  5 June 2026 11: 37
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  You can also use Yandex search for "Orlyonok landing"

                  I remember these photos. Notice the ground at the landing zone—the ruts are shallow, and the truck and bus sit securely and don't sink.
                  This is exactly what I meant when I wrote that the DKVP has far fewer restrictions on landing areas - it only cares about the density of the soil in order to ensure that the dropped equipment does not get stuck right after leaving the ramp.


                  Now we'll start measuring the track using the photo and endlessly discussing this topic.

                  This is not for me.
      3. +1
        4 June 2026 11: 04
        It can also be used as a landing craft over a mined sea.
        True. There are actually many options. However, I think hovercraft would be suitable for landing over a mined sea. Or maybe not; I'm no expert.
    4. +2
      4 June 2026 13: 46
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      A combat ekranoplan-missile carrier would not need to spend ten days at sea.

      An honest misconception. With electronic equipment identical to that of small missile ships, the EP-MRKs could perform the same missions: long-term presence anywhere at sea, with over-the-horizon reconnaissance, patrols, and escort of both friendly and potential partner ships if necessary. This is the EP-MRK variant.

      More about this in the second part of my article: https://topwar.ru/282262-bystryj-krepkij-zubastyj-i-do-sih-por-nuzhnyj.html

      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      I'm not using satellites here, this huge thing is clearly visible from satellites
      With the current advancement of satellite reconnaissance, and more importantly, machine data decryption, finding conventional surface ships is also no problem. At the very least, an EP can quickly escape from a detected position.

      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      By the way, the crew on the small missile ship is larger, which is also important.
      This is a significant addition. hi
      1. +5
        4 June 2026 14: 32
        Vladimir, thanks for the article. I love ekranoplans, whatever you think of them. hi
        Now, let's get to the point.
        With electronic equipment identical to that of small missile ships, the EP-MRKs could perform the same missions: long-term deployment anywhere at sea, with over-the-horizon reconnaissance, patrols, and escorts for both friendly and potential partner ships, if necessary. This is the EP-MRK variant.
        If admirals or generals had understood the essence of the EP (I remind you that neither the Air Force nor the Navy were ready to take the aircraft into their departments), no one would have given it patrol missions.
        His assignment was to kill the US AUG. That's all.
        At least the EP can leave the exposed position very quickly.
        Unlike ships. They arrive at the launch site, fire, and depart. A typical expendable asset, and one that's very difficult to control and vulnerable BEFORE launch. I wasn't planning on citing analogies here, but I have to. I served in the Strategic Missile Forces. A mobile complex, like the "Goodbye, England" series. Same story. Launch the missiles, leave the vehicles behind, and then march away from the launch site. As the officers said, "Maybe we'll have time to do some guerrilla warfare later."
        Both mobile complexes and EPs are consumables for the so-called Doomsday. The main thing is to launch the missiles. The rest is out of your control; you do what you can.
        A tank, at that time, had to survive on the battlefield for about 90 seconds.
        This is a significant addition.
        Simple logic. A small missile ship has a crew of about 10 people minimum. A power plant has a commander, navigator, radio operator, and engineer. Twenty-eight stokers are not required. smile hi
        1. ANB
          +1
          4 June 2026 23: 37
          Both mobile complexes and electronic devices are consumables for the so-called Doomsday.

          + SSBN.
        2. +2
          5 June 2026 03: 37
          Vladimir, thanks for the article. I love ekranoplans, whatever you think of them.

          Ah, so I am not the author of THIS article, I am the author of the opposite of other articles, which the author of this one got angry about. laughing

          My articles are HERE
          https://topwar.ru/282262-bystryj-krepkij-zubastyj-i-do-sih-por-nuzhnyj.html

          https://topwar.ru/280953-dorogoj-slepoj-i-bestolkovyj-no-jeto-ne-tochno.html

          Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
          Simple logic.

          It is "inaccessible" to opponents of the EP. laughing

          Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
          Simple logic. The MRK has a minimum crew of approximately 10 people. On the EP - commander, navigator, radio operator, engineer.
          About forty people versus about 12-15. Slightly different numbers, but the same proportion.
          1. 0
            5 June 2026 05: 22
            There are two people on the Su-34. Simple logic.
            1. +1
              5 June 2026 05: 53
              Quote: Tlauicol
              There are two people on the Su-34. Simple logic.

              And one missile and zero days of barrage 500 km from not even the coast, but the airfield...
              1. 0
                5 June 2026 06: 29
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Quote: Tlauicol
                There are two people on the Su-34. Simple logic.

                And one missile and zero days of barrage 500 km from not even the coast, but the airfield...

                Oops. So logic doesn't stop with just one crew, huh? Other characteristics and operating conditions are needed, too?
                Just read the title of the article
                1. +1
                  5 June 2026 08: 42
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  Oops. So logic doesn't stop with just one crew, huh? Other characteristics and operating conditions are needed, too?

                  Well, go ahead and develop that thought. One Su-34 carries one three-ton missile. Incidentally, that's not a given.
                  The Lun carried six four-ton missiles. That's the equivalent of eight three-ton missiles.
                  I don't expect you to do the rest of the calculations yourself. So, 8 x 2 = 16. To carry and launch 8 missiles, you'd need 8 Su-34s and 16 pilots. That's without even touching on anything else.
                  What's the title of the article?
          2. +1
            5 June 2026 06: 26
            Ah, so I am not the author of THIS article, I am the author of the opposite of other articles, which the author of this one got angry about.

            lol Well... Apparently I misunderstood something! My apologies! hi
    5. +1
      4 June 2026 20: 16
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      Its primary purpose was to deliver the missiles to the launch site and, if possible, return to base. This wouldn't require spending weeks at sea. And yes, an ekranoplan would perform this task better than a ship.
      And the plane is better than the ekranoplan.
      1. +2
        5 June 2026 03: 35
        Quote: bk0010
        And the plane is better than the ekranoplan.

        But carrying six four-ton missiles, keeping them ready for launch for at least six months, and conducting reconnaissance for several days at a considerable distance from shore—an aircraft is significantly worse than a ship. So, the ESP is slightly worse than the aircraft in a couple of areas, but in other respects, it's better than both it and the ship.
      2. +2
        5 June 2026 06: 09
        And the plane is better than the ekranoplan.
        Not in all cases. An EP can approach much closer to a carrier-carrying group than an aircraft without being detected by radar. And anti-aircraft missiles are useless for this purpose: the EP is too low for them.
        1. +3
          5 June 2026 06: 23
          Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
          Not in all cases. An EP can approach much closer to a carrier-carrying group than an aircraft without being detected by radar. And anti-aircraft missiles are useless for this purpose: the EP is too low for them.

          Well, let's not get into this nonsense, even if it's positive. The radar signature is on par with a corvette, but for an AWACS aircraft, it's like a Christmas tree, and anti-aircraft missiles work perfectly against low-flying targets, although they won't get there because the AWACS aircraft will direct the radar signature to the fighters.
          But as soon as we talk about sudden use, from behind an island chain, after a long wait, for example, or against conventional ships, of which there are just over a dozen AUGs in the world, then the EP surpasses ships in the ability to evade a strike, and aircraft in terms of salvo mass and waiting time.
          But the matter is not limited to the MRK; the EP is, in theory, an excellent anti-submarine vessel.
    6. +1
      8 June 2026 22: 52
      The first point is rather controversial, unless you add “in good weather and no waves.”
      And since rescues typically occur during storms, it's generally not applicable. Rescue requires good seaworthiness, not speed.
      Regarding detection and speed, everything is correct, especially since the concept of use was as follows: delivery and detection by aircraft, then the "Rescuer" would be dropped (if my sclerosis does not change, it was supposed to be dropped from altitudes of about 1500 meters, maybe more, I don’t remember) pick up those in distress and deliver them under its own power at high speed to the nearest base.
  3. +3
    4 June 2026 05: 30
    A dead-end branch in the context of evolution is a group of organisms that has achieved high specialization in specific conditions, but does not have the evolutionary potential for further progressive development and cannot give rise to new, more complex groups.
    However, applying this statement to our "device," we can say that without going through this stage, it was impossible to know whether this technical solution would make any further progress. Perhaps it could be used not for military purposes, but as an amusement park attraction.
    1. 0
      8 June 2026 23: 03
      Well, why "as an attraction"? Americans (private owners) quite successfully use small ekranoplans for passenger transportation on rivers.
      It's especially useful on the river, in hard-to-reach places. It's cheaper than a plane and much faster than a boat. It can navigate any shallow water, fly over obstacles, and isn't afraid of floating logs, etc. They even showed how it can fly over power lines without straining itself and fly over trees.
      If you don’t increase the load capacity, with all the consequences, it is not inferior to a boat in terms of efficiency.
      1. +1
        9 June 2026 05: 04
        No, they are only used for fun rides.
  4. +5
    4 June 2026 05: 34
    The material conscientiously and not for the first time tries to convince the general reader of the absurdity of the idea of ​​creating ekranoplans and their absolute inconsistency.
    The idea that the USSR absolutely needed no aircraft carriers was once justified with the same tenacity. They were allegedly expensive and ineffective. Meanwhile, the pragmatic Americans poured in sizable sums of money and built one carrier after another, allowing them to successfully display the striped flag (and other things) literally all over the world.
    I would like to get acquainted with a modern interpretation of the arguments in favor of ekranoplans.
    1. +5
      4 June 2026 07: 47
      Pragmatic Americans build aircraft carriers, not ekranoplans. You didn't notice your own argument.
      1. +1
        4 June 2026 08: 14
        Pragmatic Americans, represented by their Elon Musk, launch hundreds of spacecraft a year, taking away the space industry not only from us but from the rest of the world. And what does this mean?
        As for aircraft carriers, their history was given "as an example", that is, for comparison.
        1. +3
          4 June 2026 08: 22
          Pragmatic Americans, like Elon Musk, aren't building ekranoplans. So what does that mean?
          You didn't notice your second argument either.
          1. +1
            4 June 2026 10: 18
            It's turning out to be some kind of boyish quest.
            We're not building large ground effect vehicles or aircraft carriers. Meanwhile, the Americans, together with the Canadians, are quietly experimenting with ekranoplans somewhere in the backwoods.
            1. +1
              4 June 2026 21: 37
              That's the whole point: the "pragmatic Americans" developed reusable missiles in a decade, and developed aircraft carriers to the very best in twenty years, but somehow, after almost a century of the ekranoplan's existence as a concept, they still haven't produced anything larger than a small one. Even though they had the programs and the resources, something just didn't work out.
          2. +2
            4 June 2026 13: 55
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Pragmatic Americans, like Elon Musk, aren't building ekranoplans. So what does that mean?

            The Americans don't need combat submarines because they don't need to defend their shores. There's no one to defend them from. And for a blue-water navy, they're still too small.
      2. -3
        4 June 2026 11: 12
        Pragmatic Americans build aircraft carriers, not ekranoplans.

        You're right, they're pragmatic. And building an aircraft carrier is much more cost-effective than building an ekranoplan.
        1. +1
          4 June 2026 11: 45
          Pragmatism is not about embezzlement, but about real benefits and rationality.
          1. +1
            4 June 2026 14: 13
            With all due respect, American pragmatism is all about embezzlement. Remember, there was a recent article about a brand-new, terrifyingly intercontinental missile, the coolest of all time. The amounts were mentioned there. Here, for reasons obvious to the whole world, we don't. Secrecy is normal, no sarcasm intended.
            They're voicing it there. The missile designed to replace Minuteman 3 cost the Americans a huge amount. I understand they haven't replaced the Minutemans in a long time. But who said that developing a new missile—I emphasize, developing—costs exactly that much? The contractors? I understand, they're private. They need butter on their bread. And caviar. And a slice of pineapple on top. And caviar without champagne is just a waste of money. But. Their budget is approved by the Senate. Or Congress, it makes absolutely no difference. The national debt is not just enormous, it's completely unpayable. I simply didn't find the right word here, forgive me. But the point is clear: the US is effectively bankrupt, no matter how much paper they print.
            And they continue to place billion-dollar, even trillion-dollar orders.
            Would you like to say something? Something to dispel the notion in my mind, and in the minds of anyone who can think and count, of the US going bankrupt, despite all their efforts to project a hegemonic image while betting on zero?
            1. +1
              4 June 2026 14: 38
              Let's summarize the cuts:
              Nuclear-powered aircraft carriers + a hundred destroyer-cruisers
              Starlink. Non-ping communication. Reusable rockets.
              A pair of rotting ekranoplan monuments
              1. +2
                4 June 2026 15: 17
                Let's summarize. Incidentally, not all of the US's aircraft carriers are nuclear-powered. Starlink? What about Starlink? It's not the result of embezzlement; Musk doesn't really embezzle, he just works. The F-35. Tiltrotors. Reusable launch vehicles—that's a whole other ballgame, too.
                Aircraft carriers. Thunder and power. So powerful that the laundry burned down, rendering the carrier incapable of combat. I'm not even counting the British or the French, only the US. What would an aircraft carrier do after encountering our nuclear submarine, in wartime? It would sink. No other option. And don't read Clancy's fairy tales to bed; his stories are quite good, but they embellish too much. Especially in "Red Storm." There, even the Abrams and Challengers can withstand a blow, and the very best American ships are more powerful than any Soviet force...
                F-35. How many crashes have there been involving this bird? And, for a second, tiltrotor aircraft, if you count them? And how many actual enemy aircraft have F-35s shot down?
                Not embezzlement? What else could it be? It's not power, it's just tradition. And embezzlement is tradition. Everyone knows everything and doesn't interfere, because they get their share.
                1. -1
                  4 June 2026 16: 34
                  You lied (made a mistake) in the very first sentence...
                  Sect ep?
                  1. 0
                    4 June 2026 17: 45
                    You lied (made a mistake) in the very first sentence...
                    Sect ep?
                    Judging by your behavior, you lied and tried to shift the blame onto me. It didn't work. Please provide supporting evidence.
                    1. 0
                      4 June 2026 18: 19
                      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
                      You lied (made a mistake) in the very first sentence...
                      Sect ep?
                      Judging by your behavior, you lied and tried to shift the blame onto me. It didn't work. Please provide supporting evidence.

                      All US aircraft carriers are nuclear-powered. That's just for starters. Either you lied, or... It's too early for you to move on to the letter B.
                      1. +1
                        4 June 2026 18: 48
                        All US aircraft carriers are nuclear-powered.

                        And they also confronted UFOs, yeah. So what's there to talk about with you after that statement?
                        I wash my hands.
                      2. +1
                        4 June 2026 21: 41
                        Well, he's right, all US aircraft carriers with the CV(N) designation are nuclear-powered. UDCs are a separate class and, at least in official documents, are not called aircraft carriers.
                2. 0
                  4 June 2026 21: 55
                  Between the way in which, in Trump's Iranian pseudo-war, a laundry room on an aircraft carrier "accidentally" burns down or a toilet gets clogged, and under this, of course, serious pretext, the ship is taken away for repairs, and a potential all-out war, there is still a difference, and something tells me that if things really get heated, then no one will care about the toilet and the fires in the laundry rooms.
                  One can certainly speculate about nuclear submarines, but personally, I think the enormous NATO ASW colossus, which they poured a huge amount of money into preparing it for a hot war, and the modern Russian fleet are, frankly, opponents of different classes. Of course, history has seen all sorts of things, but seriously expecting a Russian nuclear submarine to, if necessary, defeat or destroy American submarine tracking, break through ASW lines, penetrate carrier strike group escorts, and hit aircraft carriers with their 80s-era torpedoes is optimistic, to say the least.
                  Regarding the F35—well, first, really look at how many accidents there have been with this bird, and then at least divide that by the number of aircraft and compare it with domestic ones. It'll be informative. The far bigger problem there isn't unreliability, but rather the difficulty of maintenance, which is why the combat-ready percentage is very low. As for effectiveness—well, if the last year hasn't shown you what's what, that's a shame. Sure, you can chuckle about stealth as much as you want, but it wasn't our aircraft (including strategic bombers!) that flew over enemy capitals without losses.
                  The American army, of course, has a ton of problems, with the same rearmament of the fleet, and with all these machinations with new-generation rifles, and much more, but firstly, they have the largest budget for a reason, and secondly, recalling all these figures from recent corruption cases in our Ministry of Defense, it’s still a question where, in relative terms, there is more corruption.
                  1. 0
                    5 June 2026 06: 24
                    You're wrong about anti-submarine warfare. Our submarines regularly pass through it. And they did in the 70s and 80s, too. The idea that our boats are worse than the American ones is a myth from the 60s and 70s. And the Yankees still strenuously support it.
                    By the way, our torpedoes aren't from the 80s either. Do you really think that while other weapons are being improved, no one is working on torpedoes? It was the Americans who, until recently, lived by the principle "good enough." If only because they only recently got around to noticing their Minuteman IIIs. A development from the 70s. And suddenly they realized it was time to replace them. And what about the B-52s? And the B1Bs, which they've started restoring? Even though they're building a brand-new bomber. Now they're planning to build Trump-class battleships.
                    The bigger problem there is not unreliability, but the difficulty of maintenance, which is why the percentage of combat-ready vehicles is very low.
                    You're contradicting yourself here... The complexity of the equipment that fails is what makes the aircraft unreliable. The autopilot fails—unreliable. Sensors fail—ditto. And so on down the list.
                    Of course, you can giggle about stealth as long as you want, but it wasn't our planes (including strategic bombers!) that flew over enemy capitals without losses.
                    This isn't the fault of American aircraft; it's the failure of air defense. And stealth played no role here.
      3. 0
        8 June 2026 23: 11
        I already wrote that pragmatic Americans do build ekranoplans, but only for private use and for passenger transportation, in hard-to-reach places along rivers, for 6-8 passengers. smile
        It turns out that by boat it takes a long time and doesn’t go everywhere, by plane it’s expensive and you can’t land everywhere, by helicopter it’s even more expensive.
        Large electric power plants are now easier to replace, in this case, with airplanes, purely economically.
        In military affairs... it's more applicable in highly specialized cases, like landing in the wilderness, when the river has shallows and riffles, but here it's easier to use helicopters, although more expensive, they are already a proven and reliable means.
        1. 0
          9 June 2026 05: 05
          Can you give examples of such transportation by EP in the USA?
  5. + 11
    4 June 2026 05: 39
    The author, as always, picks out various characteristics of ekranoplans and compares them with the least advantageous characteristics of other highly specialized equipment for ekranoplans.

    So the comparison is not made.

    A comprehensive comparison is carried out with similar equipment samples based on all the most important characteristics.

    In general, Oleg did not disappoint in his bias.
    1. +1
      4 June 2026 06: 56
      Quote: Ing Mech
      The author, as always, picks out various characteristics of ekranoplans and compares them with the least advantageous characteristics of other highly specialized equipment for ekranoplans.

      So the comparison is not made.

      A comprehensive comparison is carried out with similar equipment samples based on all the most important characteristics.

      In general, Oleg did not disappoint in his bias.

      Quote: U-58
      The material conscientiously and not for the first time tries to convince the general reader of the absurdity of the idea of ​​creating ekranoplans and their absolute inconsistency.
      The idea that the USSR absolutely needed no aircraft carriers was once justified with the same tenacity. They were allegedly expensive and ineffective. Meanwhile, the pragmatic Americans poured in sizable sums of money and built one carrier after another, allowing them to successfully display the striped flag (and other things) literally all over the world.
      I would like to get acquainted with a modern interpretation of the arguments in favor of ekranoplans.

      Quote: Uncle Sam_2
      A dead-end branch in the context of evolution is a group of organisms that has achieved high specialization in specific conditions, but does not have the evolutionary potential for further progressive development and cannot give rise to new, more complex groups.
      However, applying this statement to our "device," we can say that without going through this stage, it was impossible to know whether this technical solution would make any further progress. Perhaps it could be used not for military purposes, but as an amusement park attraction.

      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      I'm not sure that the author's attempt to portray ekranoplans in a negative light was successful.
      1. The Rescuer's shortcomings in search and detection are clear. However, it could rescue those already located much faster than a ship. It's faster.
      2. As was rightly noted in the article, ekranoplans were used very little, so it is impossible to draw conclusions about their unsuccessful operation.
      3. A combat ekranoplan-missile carrier wouldn't need to spend ten days at sea. Its primary mission was to deliver missiles to the launch site and, if possible, return to base. This doesn't require weeks at sea. And yes, an ekranoplan would perform this task better than a ship. Due to its higher speed, lower visibility to the enemy (I'm not talking about satellites here; this giant is easily visible from satellites), and lower vulnerability. I'd like to point out that in a combat situation with a serious adversary, say the United States, ekranoplans, like most ships, aircraft, and tanks, are expendable. They should be sufficient to complete the mission, and beyond that, it's a matter of luck. And if the cost of an ekranoplan was comparable to a small missile ship, but it surpassed the small missile ship in speed and the number of missiles it could carry, then it would be preferable to a small missile ship for combat use. Incidentally, a small missile ship has a larger crew, which is also important.
      So, I believe it's simply impossible to give a truly objective assessment of ekranoplans. This would require extensive and intensive use of the vehicle, along with comprehensive practical testing. Unfortunately, combat ekranoplans currently do not exist.

      For +50 (fifty!!)(with new materials, engines and other innovations of progress!!) For years, no one in the world has built combat ekranoplans.
      This speaks at least of a big controversy ideas.
      1. +5
        4 June 2026 07: 46
        Quote: your1970
        No one in the world has built combat ekranoplans
        This is all because any cruise missile launched from an aircraft will solve the problem much more simply, cheaply, and with a higher probability of success...
        1. 0
          5 June 2026 07: 00
          Quote: Luminman
          Quote: your1970
          No one in the world has built combat ekranoplans
          This is all because any cruise missile launched from an aircraft will solve the problem much more simply, cheaply, and with a higher probability of success...


          How come Iran doesn't have one such aircraft and cruise missile?

          Or were they found but did not solve the problem?

          Why haven't our Aerospace Forces destroyed the Ukrainian fleet in 4+ years?

          How did it happen that the Russian fleet was not destroyed in the Black Sea despite the enemy having anti-ship missiles, aviation, and a navy?
          1. +2
            5 June 2026 16: 54
            Quote: Ing Mech
            How come Iran doesn't have one such aircraft and cruise missile?

            Or were they found but did not solve the problem?

            Why haven't our Aerospace Forces destroyed the Ukrainian fleet in 4+ years?

            How did it happen that the Russian fleet was not destroyed in the Black Sea despite the enemy having anti-ship missiles, aviation, and a navy?
            Ask these questions to our Ministry of Defense and the General Staff...
            1. +2
              6 June 2026 04: 04
              Quote: Luminman
              Quote: Ing Mech
              How come Iran doesn't have one such aircraft and cruise missile?

              Or were they found but did not solve the problem?

              Why haven't our Aerospace Forces destroyed the Ukrainian fleet in 4+ years?

              How did it happen that the Russian fleet was not destroyed in the Black Sea despite the enemy having anti-ship missiles, aviation, and a navy?
              Ask these questions to our Ministry of Defense and the General Staff...


              Why? To hear about a cunning plan?

              You expressed a thesis, I presented an antithesis, based on two conflicts in which it was possible to prove your thesis.

              Reality says otherwise.
              That is, not any anti-aircraft missile (of which there are many) and not from any aircraft (of which there are quite a few).

              What does the General Staff and the Ministry of Defense and the like have to do with this?
              1. +1
                6 June 2026 06: 28
                Quote: Ing Mech
                And sdes General Staff and Ministry of Defense, etc.?
                Here...
                1. +2
                  6 June 2026 10: 28
                  Quote: Luminman
                  Quote: Ing Mech
                  And sdes General Staff and Ministry of Defense, etc.?
                  Here...


                  I wanted to say here

                  We sing what we hear.
      2. +2
        4 June 2026 13: 56
        Quote: your1970
        For +50 (fifty!!) (with new materials, engines and other innovations of progress!!) years, no one in the world has built combat ekranoplans.


        Large countries don't need combat EPs because they don't need to defend their shores. There's no one to defend them from. And they're not always capable of building small ships, let alone engines.
        1. -1
          4 June 2026 14: 13
          Is Russia a large or a small country? And who needs them besides Russia? No one?
          1. +2
            5 June 2026 03: 31
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Is Russia a large or a small country? And who needs them besides Russia?

            Great again. The answer has been around for a long time, though.
            In the "new" Russia, they stopped developing combat ekranoplans for exactly the same reasons they stopped developing supersonic VTOL aircraft, small AWACS aircraft, modernizing mine and anti-submarine warfare systems, not to mention microelectronics, space exploration, civil aircraft manufacturing, and other aircraft carriers. They even stopped developing destroyers.
            So tell me, what kind of country, or rather, what kind of leadership, should we consider Russia's leadership? Or perhaps Russia doesn't need anything above that?
            1. 0
              5 June 2026 05: 25
              Destroyers, space, Stalin, and aircraft carriers are needed. ERs are not needed. And not just by Russia—nobody in the world needs them, as you yourself so transparently hint at.
              1. +1
                5 June 2026 05: 57
                Quote: Tlauicol
                Destroyers, space, Stalin, and aircraft carriers are needed. ERs are not needed. And not just by Russia—nobody in the world needs them, as you yourself so transparently hint at.

                No, no, practically no one can make EPs; who needs them, like island states, and those who can, don’t need to defend a huge coastline with small forces, like Russia.
                And yet, Russia, despite having the potential to develop supersonic VTOL aircraft, small AWACS aircraft, modernize mine and anti-submarine defense systems, not to mention microelectronics, astronautics, civil aircraft manufacturing, and other aircraft carriers, for some reason does not do this.
                By your logic, it's because Russia specifically doesn't need it. The rest of the world has no groundwork for the EP.
                1. 0
                  5 June 2026 06: 32
                  Absolutely right: Russia doesn't need these EPs. The USSR didn't need them either. Border guards and ministries fought them off. In Russia, border guards were also foisted off on EPs. They're probably still crossing themselves.
                  1. +1
                    5 June 2026 08: 51
                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    Absolutely right: Russia doesn’t need these EPs.

                    Well then, according to your logic, there is no need for
                    supersonic VTOL aircraft, small AWACS aircraft, modernization of mine and anti-submarine defense, not to mention microelectronics, astronautics, civil aircraft manufacturing and other aircraft carriers

                    Pure logic - if they don’t do what they can, then it’s not necessary.
                    And cargo cults—if others don't do it, but we can, then we don't need it. Or rather, people like you. And the comrades below.

                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    They weren't needed by the USSR either.
                    This topic was ruined by the same geniuses who in Sevastopol don’t know where to hide from the khikhlyov.
                    1. 0
                      5 June 2026 08: 57
                      It's scary to even imagine what would happen if the Khly started building ekranoplans instead of drones.
      3. +1
        5 June 2026 06: 48
        Quote: your1970
        Quote: Ing Mech
        The author, as always, picks out various characteristics of ekranoplans and compares them with the least advantageous characteristics of other highly specialized equipment for ekranoplans.

        So the comparison is not made.

        A comprehensive comparison is carried out with similar equipment samples based on all the most important characteristics.

        In general, Oleg did not disappoint in his bias.

        Quote: U-58
        The material conscientiously and not for the first time tries to convince the general reader of the absurdity of the idea of ​​creating ekranoplans and their absolute inconsistency.
        The idea that the USSR absolutely needed no aircraft carriers was once justified with the same tenacity. They were allegedly expensive and ineffective. Meanwhile, the pragmatic Americans poured in sizable sums of money and built one carrier after another, allowing them to successfully display the striped flag (and other things) literally all over the world.
        I would like to get acquainted with a modern interpretation of the arguments in favor of ekranoplans.

        Quote: Uncle Sam_2
        A dead-end branch in the context of evolution is a group of organisms that has achieved high specialization in specific conditions, but does not have the evolutionary potential for further progressive development and cannot give rise to new, more complex groups.
        However, applying this statement to our "device," we can say that without going through this stage, it was impossible to know whether this technical solution would make any further progress. Perhaps it could be used not for military purposes, but as an amusement park attraction.

        Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
        I'm not sure that the author's attempt to portray ekranoplans in a negative light was successful.
        1. The Rescuer's shortcomings in search and detection are clear. However, it could rescue those already located much faster than a ship. It's faster.
        2. As was rightly noted in the article, ekranoplans were used very little, so it is impossible to draw conclusions about their unsuccessful operation.
        3. A combat ekranoplan-missile carrier wouldn't need to spend ten days at sea. Its primary mission was to deliver missiles to the launch site and, if possible, return to base. This doesn't require weeks at sea. And yes, an ekranoplan would perform this task better than a ship. Due to its higher speed, lower visibility to the enemy (I'm not talking about satellites here; this giant is easily visible from satellites), and lower vulnerability. I'd like to point out that in a combat situation with a serious adversary, say the United States, ekranoplans, like most ships, aircraft, and tanks, are expendable. They should be sufficient to complete the mission, and beyond that, it's a matter of luck. And if the cost of an ekranoplan was comparable to a small missile ship, but it surpassed the small missile ship in speed and the number of missiles it could carry, then it would be preferable to a small missile ship for combat use. Incidentally, a small missile ship has a larger crew, which is also important.
        So, I believe it's simply impossible to give a truly objective assessment of ekranoplans. This would require extensive and intensive use of the vehicle, along with comprehensive practical testing. Unfortunately, combat ekranoplans currently do not exist.

        For +50 (fifty!!)(with new materials, engines and other innovations of progress!!) For years, no one in the world has built combat ekranoplans.
        This speaks at least of a big controversy ideas.


        So what

        There is still more that has not been built in the history of human civilization.

        The controversial nature of any idea can be proven.

        Just recently, with foam at the mouth, Russia successfully demonstrated the uselessness of drones, then the uselessness of something else, and before that the uselessness of autarky in Russia because we will buy everything.

        The main thing is to set the task to prove.
        1. -1
          5 June 2026 11: 13
          Quote: Eng Mech
          So what
          There is still more that has not been built in the history of human civilization.
          The controversial nature of any idea can be proven.

          Quote: Eng Mech
          The main thing is to set the task to prove.

          So that's the question - NO ONE IN THE WORLD (not in the Russian Federation!!!!!!!!!!!!) has not wanted to set such a task for +50 years.
          ALL Countries dug into the subject a bit, built some individual examples, and that's it...
          1. +2
            5 June 2026 11: 31
            Quote: your1970
            Quote: Eng Mech
            So what
            There is still more that has not been built in the history of human civilization.
            The controversial nature of any idea can be proven.

            Quote: Eng Mech
            The main thing is to set the task to prove.

            So that's the question - NO ONE IN THE WORLD (not in the Russian Federation!!!!!!!!!!!!) has not wanted to set such a task for +50 years.
            ALL Countries dug into the subject a bit, built some individual examples, and that's it...


            So what?

            What does this prove?

            That all the analogs in the world are not needed on the Internet.

            Hazelnuts and the like are not needed.
            1. -1
              5 June 2026 11: 55
              Quote: Ing Mech
              Quote: your1970
              Quote: Eng Mech
              So what
              There is still more that has not been built in the history of human civilization.
              The controversial nature of any idea can be proven.

              Quote: Eng Mech
              The main thing is to set the task to prove.

              So that's the question - NO ONE IN THE WORLD (not in the Russian Federation!!!!!!!!!!!!) has not wanted to set such a task for +50 years.
              ALL Countries dug into the subject a bit, built some individual examples, and that's it...


              So what?

              What does this prove?

              That all the analogs in the world are not needed on the Internet.

              Hazelnuts and the like are not needed.

              This proves that in 50 years the idea has not become "analogueless"
              Not 1-5-10 years, but +50.
              1. +2
                6 June 2026 03: 58
                Quote: your1970
                This proves that in 50 years the idea has not become "analogueless"
                Not 1-5-10 years, but +50.


                As far as I know, not many nuclear icebreakers (or large icebreakers in general) have been built in the last 100 years outside the USSR.

                Does this prove that they are not needed and that it is a dead end, and the idea has become analogous to the internet?

                For 50 years, no one except the United States has landed a man on the moon (if you believe the official information).

                Does this prove that humanity doesn't need to go into space? At least for the sake of preserving the species in the event of a catastrophe.

                Stop trying to fit an owl onto a globe by engaging in Western worship.
                1. 0
                  6 June 2026 08: 24
                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  As far as I know, not many nuclear icebreakers (or large icebreakers in general) have been built in the last 100 years outside the USSR.

                  Does this prove that they are not needed and that it is a dead end, and the idea has become analogous to the internet?

                  This proves that they are not needed by anyone who could build them - due to geography.
                  Taimyr and Vaygach were built abroad (except for the reactors) - the expertise is there, but there is no need.

                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  For 50 years, no one except the United States has landed a man on the moon (if you believe the official information).
                  Does this prove that humanity doesn't need to go into space?

                  - this proves that the USSR simply didn’t have time.
                  At that time, no one else had more competence.

                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  At least for the sake of preserving the species in case of disaster.

                  Will 100 people save the species without the absence of a second Earth nearby?
                  Oh well...

                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  Stop trying to fit an owl onto a globe by engaging in Western worship.
                  What does Western worship have to do with it? - just to state it FACT that no ekranoplans have been built anywhere in the world for 50 years?
                  1. +1
                    6 June 2026 10: 32
                    Quote: your1970
                    Quote: Eng Mech
                    As far as I know, not many nuclear icebreakers (or large icebreakers in general) have been built in the last 100 years outside the USSR.

                    Does this prove that they are not needed and that it is a dead end, and the idea has become analogous to the internet?

                    This proves that they are not needed by anyone who could build them - due to geography.
                    Taimyr and Vaygach were built abroad (except for the reactors) - the expertise is there, but there is no need.

                    Quote: Eng Mech
                    For 50 years, no one except the United States has landed a man on the moon (if you believe the official information).
                    Does this prove that humanity doesn't need to go into space?

                    - this proves that the USSR simply didn’t have time.
                    At that time, no one else had more competence.

                    Quote: Eng Mech
                    At least for the sake of preserving the species in case of disaster.

                    Will 100 people save the species without the absence of a second Earth nearby?
                    Oh well...

                    Quote: Eng Mech
                    Stop trying to fit an owl onto a globe by engaging in Western worship.
                    What does Western worship have to do with it? - just to state it FACT that no ekranoplans have been built anywhere in the world for 50 years?


                    Nowhere in the world have heavy ekranoplans been built except in the USSR, just as no heavy nuclear icebreakers have been built anywhere in the world except in the USSR and the Russian Federation.

                    Doesn't your informal logic tell you anything?

                    Not to mention that a lot more ekranoplans have been built all over the world.

                    Stop mocking people and embarrassing yourself in public.
                    1. -1
                      6 June 2026 12: 37
                      Quote: Eng Mech
                      Not to mention that a lot of ekranoplans have been built all over the world.

                      Examples SERIAL MILITARY ekranoplans possible?
                      1. -1
                        7 June 2026 04: 05
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Not to mention that a lot of ekranoplans have been built all over the world.

                        Examples SERIAL MILITARY ekranoplans possible?


                        Good Lord.

                        Orlyonok, for example, is also found in Iran and/or China, as far as I remember, but they are small.

                        Why are you suddenly only interested in the military? Are you trying to change the narrative?

                        Do you know how many nuclear-powered icebreakers and ice-class lighter carriers there are?

                        And what does this mean and prove in your informal logic?

                        Listen, stop embarrassing yourself!

                        It would be better to read Vinogradov (the science of logic), and then get involved in arguments.
                      2. -1
                        7 June 2026 10: 53
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        The eaglet, for example, and

                        4 pieces from 1979 to 1984 - instead of 120.
                        After which the project was closed.
                        This is the Soviet "Zamwalt" - only without the money grab.
                      3. +1
                        8 June 2026 04: 47
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        The eaglet, for example, and

                        4 pieces from 1979 to 1984 - instead of 120.
                        After which the project was closed.
                        This is the Soviet "Zamwalt" - only without the money grab.


                        About 10 nuclear icebreakers have been built over the course of history, including one lighter carrier.

                        Not a single combat one yet.

                        This is a Soviet-Russian deputy, and also with a probable embezzlement from the latter.

                        Continue to embarrass yourself, I don’t care about your nickname.
                      4. +1
                        8 June 2026 05: 13
                        Did you want to order 120 nuclear icebreakers? And only 10 were built?
                      5. 0
                        8 June 2026 05: 19
                        By the way, they built not 10, but 14. And there will be more orders. 4 are under construction.

                        And how are you?
                      6. 0
                        8 June 2026 05: 25
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        By the way, they built not 10, but 14. And there will be more orders. 4 are under construction.

                        And how are you?


                        I wrote about 10

                        And what does this prove?

                        There is nothing to talk about with you, sectarian!

                        Get off me!
                      7. +1
                        8 June 2026 05: 45
                        Well, yes, + -4 pieces... So there are about zero ekranoplans?
                        I just pointed out a mistake. It's useless to argue with you, because you believe in something absurd.
                      8. 0
                        8 June 2026 08: 12
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Well, yes, + -4 pieces... So there are about zero ekranoplans?
                        I just pointed out a mistake. It's useless to argue with you, because you believe in something absurd.


                        With your level of arithmetic this is impossible.

                        Kisses! I wish you happiness and advancement up the sectarian career ladder to the depths of self-deception!
                      9. +1
                        8 June 2026 11: 34
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        About 10 nuclear icebreakers have been built over the course of history, including one lighter carrier.

                        Very, very slowly - you're confusing a highly specialized thing with a geography that 99% of the world's countries don't need for free.
                        If Russia loses its rights to the Northern Sea Route tomorrow, there will be 100 nuclear icebreakers in 5 years. China and the US will churn out more.
                        A nuclear icebreaker is a much more complex thing than an ekranoplan - but they will churn it out.
                        There are only 3 countries that really need them - the USA, Canada and Russia
                        But there are no ekranoplans - which ALL countries in the world with access to large bodies of water can operate - there are 148 of them (!!!) and a couple dozen countries can build them - in any quantity.
                        Ratio and need:
                        Icebreakers - 3 countries out of 192 countries
                        Ekranoplans - 148 countries to 192 countries
                      10. 0
                        8 June 2026 12: 04
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        About 10 nuclear icebreakers have been built over the course of history, including one lighter carrier.

                        Very, very slowly - you're confusing a highly specialized thing with a geography that 99% of the world's countries don't need for free.
                        If Russia loses its rights to the Northern Sea Route tomorrow, there will be 100 nuclear icebreakers in 5 years. China and the US will churn out more.
                        A nuclear icebreaker is a much more complex thing than an ekranoplan - but they will churn it out.
                        There are only 3 countries that really need them - the USA, Canada and Russia
                        But there are no ekranoplans - which ALL countries in the world with access to large bodies of water can operate - there are 148 of them (!!!) and a couple dozen countries can build them - in any quantity.
                        Ratio and need:
                        Icebreakers - 3 countries out of 192 countries
                        Ekranoplans - 148 countries to 192 countries


                        Very fast and concise

                        Icebreakers are an example.

                        Ask how many countries have non-nuclear icebreakers. It's a little over three, although, according to you, they don't need them.

                        Spoiler: there is also a South Pole, and the geography of ice is not limited to the Arctic Ocean.

                        Continue to disgrace yourself.

                        But to be honest, I'm a little tired of participating in your disgrace.

                        I think I'll ignore you.
                      11. +1
                        8 June 2026 15: 29
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Ask how many countries have non-nuclear icebreakers. It's a little over three, although, according to you, they don't need them.

                        Everyone who needs icebreakers has one.
                        Ekranoplans NOT Everyone who needs them has them (148 countries).
                        Can’t you tell the difference?
                        However, it would be better if you ignored me - it will take me less time.

                        And yes, start building ekranoplans tomorrow.
                      12. -1
                        8 June 2026 20: 32
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Ask how many countries have non-nuclear icebreakers. It's a little over three, although, according to you, they don't need them.

                        Everyone who needs icebreakers has one.
                        Ekranoplans NOT Everyone who needs them has them (148 countries).
                        Can’t you tell the difference?
                        However, it would be better if you ignored me - it will take me less time.

                        And yes, start building ekranoplans tomorrow.


                        You have finally formulated your ironclad logic.

                        The fact of necessity or uselessness of something is explained and proven by its presence or absence.

                        I envy your family idyll.

                        When your wife and children tell you that there is no money in the family, you explain to them clearly that it is because they do not need money.

                        And yes
                        Taki
                        All that remains is to congratulate you on your solemn acceptance into the sect of anti-ekranoplan witnesses, and to wish you all the best.

                        But if suddenly this good thing doesn't happen in your life, it's not a big deal, it's because you don't need it. Otherwise, it would definitely happen.
                      13. +1
                        8 June 2026 22: 37
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        All that remains is to congratulate you on your solemn acceptance into the sect of anti-ekranoplan witnesses, and to wish you all the best.

                        As soon as 148 countries around the world start building ekranoplans in series, write to me and I will apologize for your prescience.

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        When your wife and children tell you that there is no money in the family, you explain to them clearly that it is because they do not need money.

                        As soon as my wife and children tell me that they urgently and desperately need money (ekranoplans), I try to earn money (build ekranoplans).
                        And if this is a conversation at the level of "Well, somewhere there they are selling a diamond weighing 20 kilos, should we buy it?" - then with a clear conscience I say "Of course we will! At the first opportunity - when we have money!!" (And with ekranoplans it is exactly the same).
                      14. 0
                        8 June 2026 23: 24
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        All that remains is to congratulate you on your solemn acceptance into the sect of anti-ekranoplan witnesses, and to wish you all the best.

                        As soon as 148 countries around the world start building ekranoplans in series, write to me and I will apologize for your prescience.

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        When your wife and children tell you that there is no money in the family, you explain to them clearly that it is because they do not need money.

                        As soon as my wife and children tell me that they urgently and desperately need money (ekranoplans), I try to earn money (build ekranoplans).
                        And if this is a conversation at the level of "Well, somewhere there they are selling a diamond weighing 20 kilos, should we buy it?" - then with a clear conscience I say "Of course we will! At the first opportunity - when we have money!!" (And with ekranoplans it is exactly the same).


                        Will 10 countries not satisfy the father of Russian anti-ekranoplano-building?

                        Can you name a list of 148 countries that you trust?

                        Does this somehow correlate with the list of countries that are capable of mass-producing ships and aircraft?

                        Do you have any additional requirements regarding serial production, weight, dimensions, and other characteristics? Otherwise, it might turn out that the ekranoplans are somehow not right.
                      15. 0
                        9 June 2026 06: 56
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Does this somehow correlate with the list of countries that are capable of mass-producing ships and aircraft?

                        20 years ago, our country's (and not only ours!) air defense was quite adequate – but now everyone who can has started creating modules, network jammers, electronic warfare, etc.
                        As soon as a real need arises and ekranoplans can satisfy it, thousands of them are pasted on.
                        For now, there is no such need/matching of characteristics.
                      16. 0
                        10 June 2026 07: 54
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Does this somehow correlate with the list of countries that are capable of mass-producing ships and aircraft?

                        20 years ago, our country's (and not only ours!) air defense was quite adequate – but now everyone who can has started creating modules, network jammers, electronic warfare, etc.
                        As soon as a real need arises and ekranoplans can satisfy it, thousands of them are pasted on.
                        For now, there is no such need/matching of characteristics.


                        What does the air defense of our vast homeland have to do with this?

                        I still don't understand your logic!

                        IF
                        Your thesis/criterion is correct that a necessary and sufficient condition for confirming the necessity and non-dead-end nature of any vehicle is the mandatory presence of production of this vehicle in a country with access to the environment of movement of this vehicle.

                        TO
                        How would you rate the non-dead-end nature of the problem according to your criteria, for example:
                        * aircraft of the Kukuruz, Cessna and lighter classes
                        * cars
                        * bicycles at least
                        * and indeed all modern mass transport vehicles.

                        Am I correct in understanding that light aircraft and automobiles, if they are needed in your opinion, should be produced in each country due to that country’s access to air and land?

                        Or are they also dead ends?

                        PS
                        I've already bought popcorn for a fascinating reading of your train of thought, guided by your very informal logic.

                        The design of the Order of the Holy Infallible Prophet of the Anti-Ekranoplan Witnesses Sect is in progress.
                      17. +2
                        10 June 2026 13: 37
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        TO
                        How would you rate the non-dead-end nature of the problem according to your criteria, for example:
                        * aircraft of the Kukuruz, Cessna and lighter classes
                        * cars
                        * bicycles at least
                        * and indeed all modern mass transport vehicles.

                        Am I correct in understanding that light aircraft and automobiles, if they are needed in your opinion, should be produced in each country due to that country’s access to air and land?

                        You understand correctly!!!
                        That's exactly how it happens - all countries make bicycles, fewer countries make cars, even fewer make airplanes.
                        And those countries that can't make cars and planes themselves - BUYING those countries have them - which can do them.
                        They are closing theirs NEED - PURCHASE.
                        "Demand creates supply" (c) haven't you read the classics of Marxism?
                        If there is no demand for ekranoplans in any of the 148 countries, you can describe mountains of their charms, but no one will buy them.
                        20 years ago, no one in the world really needed drones. In 2022, demand arose, and now a ton of manufacturers around the world make them.
                        It will turn out tomorrow that Taiwan cannot be destroyed without ekranoplans - China will churn out thousands of them.
                        But for now there is no demand (and for the last 50 years) - regardless of your indignation and sarcasm
                      18. 0
                        11 June 2026 02: 28
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        TO
                        How would you rate the non-dead-end nature of the problem according to your criteria, for example:
                        * aircraft of the Kukuruz, Cessna and lighter classes
                        * cars
                        * bicycles at least
                        * and indeed all modern mass transport vehicles.

                        Am I correct in understanding that light aircraft and automobiles, if they are needed in your opinion, should be produced in each country due to that country’s access to air and land?

                        You understand correctly!!!
                        That's exactly how it happens - all countries make bicycles, fewer countries make cars, even fewer make airplanes.
                        And those countries that can't make cars and planes themselves - BUYING those countries have them - which can do them.
                        They are closing theirs NEED - PURCHASE.
                        "Demand creates supply" (c) haven't you read the classics of Marxism?
                        If there is no demand for ekranoplans in any of the 148 countries, you can describe mountains of their charms, but no one will buy them.
                        20 years ago, no one in the world really needed drones. In 2022, demand arose, and now a ton of manufacturers around the world make them.
                        It will turn out tomorrow that Taiwan cannot be destroyed without ekranoplans - China will churn out thousands of them.
                        But for now there is no demand (and for the last 50 years) - regardless of your indignation and sarcasm


                        Often, supply creates demand.

                        In the case of vehicles, this offer must include a service network.

                        So are you sure that all stepans at least make bicycles?

                        Or will you continue to substituting your theses?

                        On what basis did you put forward the requirement for ekranoplan production to be available in 148 countries?

                        Do you know how many countries are capable of producing light aircraft like the crop duster, the Cessna, and lower classes?

                        How many of them should there be according to your informal logic?
                      19. +1
                        11 June 2026 05: 58
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Do you know how many countries are capable of producing light aircraft like the crop duster, the Cessna, and lower classes?

                        A little bit and?
                        Quote: your1970
                        And those countries that can't make cars and planes themselves - BUYING those countries that can make them.
                        They are closing theirs NEED - PURCHASE.
                        .

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        On what basis did you put forward this? REQUIREMENT about availability PRODUCTION ekranoplans in 148 countries?
                        You beautifully replace my theses with your own. You're a beauty, what can I say...
                        I claimed - the oppositeWhat do 148 countries with access to the sea have? Ish there must be demand and need.
                        But there is no demand at the moment for 50 years.
                      20. 0
                        11 June 2026 07: 04
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Do you know how many countries are capable of producing light aircraft like the crop duster, the Cessna, and lower classes?

                        A little bit and?
                        Quote: your1970
                        And those countries that can't make cars and planes themselves - BUYING those countries that can make them.
                        They are closing theirs NEED - PURCHASE.
                        .

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        On what basis did you put forward this? REQUIREMENT about availability PRODUCTION ekranoplans in 148 countries?
                        You beautifully replace my theses with your own. You're a beauty, what can I say...
                        I claimed - the oppositeWhat do 148 countries with access to the sea have? Ish there must be demand and need.
                        But there is no demand at the moment for 50 years.


                        Reread what you write, as you advise me to do under your other nickname.
                      21. +1
                        11 June 2026 12: 29
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        as you advise me to do under your other nickname.

                        This is my only nickname - I haven't gone crazy and I don't get money from the site - so I need to create several nicknames. One is enough for me.
                        If you see something, cross yourself...
                      22. 0
                        11 June 2026 13: 26
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        as you advise me to do under your other nickname.

                        This is my only nickname - I haven't gone crazy and I don't get money from the site - so I need to create several nicknames. One is enough for me.
                        If you see something, cross yourself...


                        We'll leave that to your conscience. As will the ability/willingness to soberly and thoughtfully reread your own text before accusing your opponent of substituting your points, which mutate from message to message.

                        Well, as I already wrote to you, I am not interested in participating in your disgrace, or even in discussing your demands, which are completely divorced from reality, for proof that ekranoplans and ekranoplanes are not a dead end.

                        Get off me and you too.
                      23. +2
                        11 June 2026 15: 58
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Well, as I already wrote to you, I am not interested in participating in your shame.
                        - Nevertheless, you cheerfully support the discussion.


                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        even in the discussion of your demands, completely divorced from reality, for proof that ekranoplans and ekranoplanes are not a dead end.

                        You have not provided any evidence of the urgent need for their construction.
                        All your evidence is at the "Gorgeous Thing" level.
                        You deny that not one of the 148 countries in the world with access to the sea and the competence to build or the financial means to purchase them has produced a large-scale series for the past 50 years.
                        You deny that the USSR built 5 and scrapped the 120 series.
                        You reject Marx's "Demand creates supply."

                        1 you against 148 countries (the USSR 149) - well, go ahead, build and if you're right, they'll snatch them out of your hands and beat each other's faces in line
                      24. 0
                        12 June 2026 04: 28
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Well, as I already wrote to you, I am not interested in participating in your shame.
                        - Nevertheless, you cheerfully support the discussion.


                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        even in the discussion of your demands, completely divorced from reality, for proof that ekranoplans and ekranoplanes are not a dead end.


                        1.
                        You have not provided any evidence of the urgent need for their construction.

                        2.
                        All your evidence is at the "Gorgeous Thing" level.

                        3.
                        You deny that not one of the 148 countries in the world with access to the sea and the competence to build or the financial means to purchase them has produced a large-scale series for the past 50 years.

                        4.
                        You deny that the USSR built 5 and scrapped the 120 series.

                        5.
                        You reject Marx's "Demand creates supply."

                        6.
                        1 you against 148 countries (the USSR 149) - well, go ahead, build and if you're right, they'll snatch them out of your hands and beat each other's faces in line


                        I'm not interested in you, I'm doing this for other people, including the author's main opponent.

                        1.
                        The author's main opponent has provided ample evidence of this in his articles. From your perspective, there isn't, but from mine, there is a mild one (but until they start building them en masse and using them in practice, the hidden potential won't be revealed (see drones for entertainment content).)

                        2.
                        This isn't true (see my comments). But perhaps you have trouble understanding text (including the ones you wrote). But that's also true. That means some examples can be masterpieces and absolutely irreplaceable.

                        3.
                        I'm more than certain that this isn't true, at least in terms of financial capabilities. I don't deny it. I draw different conclusions from it than you do. That is, I don't consider this a necessary and sufficient condition for proving anything. In some countries, for example, there are food and medicine shortages, although even you probably wouldn't deny their necessity.

                        4.
                        No, I don't reject it. The Soviet bureaucracy screwed up a lot, including the USSR and the subsequent multi-million population losses. For me, this is yet another example of the incompetence of the late and post-Soviet bureaucracy.

                        5.
                        No, I'm not denying it, I'm adding to it: "supply creates demand." See drones. In this particular case, this is further complicated by certification and the development of a robust service and repair network with specialists.

                        6.
                        Unfortunately, I don't have such capabilities. But you can consider my comments here my contribution to the realization of this idea. China and Iran are currently building small-scale, not very combat-ready ones. Again. See drones.
                        By the way, if 148 countries is the current state of the world, with access to whatever you've mentioned, it's still 148, because the USSR doesn't exist now. So, even you're wrong here. But that's not surprising.

                        All that's left is to hug you and cry.

                        Once again and slowly.

                        You are absolutely uninteresting and ordinary in your bias and incompetence.

                        But some of your criticism is useful, from the point of view of developing this idea.

                        I apologize for any mistakes and typos, but I'm genuinely bored with you and it's a shame to waste so much of my time on you. Those who need to will understand.
                      25. +2
                        12 June 2026 07: 22
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        That is, I don't consider this a necessary and sufficient condition for proving anything. In some countries, for example, there are food and medicine shortages, although I doubt even you would deny their necessity.

                        In countries with food and medicine shortages, there is no need for ekranoplans. Just as there is no need for aircraft carriers or spaceships, for example, due to a lack of funds for their construction or purchase.
                        In this case, the population doesn’t care what kind of government it is - if there’s nothing to eat.

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        The author's main opponent has provided ample evidence of this in his articles. From your perspective, there isn't, but from mine, there is a mild one (but until mass production and practical application begins, the hidden potential won't be revealed).
                        - that is, you are proposing to throw a mountain of funds into a project that even in your opinion is not needed not spicy - in the hope that maybe some positives will emerge later?
                        What if they don't come out?
                        There's a theory that the USSR overextended itself while building the "Golden Fish"—are you suggesting we test the Russian Federation's strength in this way?

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        See drones for entertainment content))
                        Drones proved themselves quite effective during the Arab-Israeli wars of the 1980s.
                        So this is not a 2022 discovery - it was known all 40 years before that. But all We prepared for 40 years for another war.
                      26. 0
                        12 June 2026 09: 52
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        That is, I don't consider this a necessary and sufficient condition for proving anything. In some countries, for example, there are food and medicine shortages, although I doubt even you would deny their necessity.

                        In countries with food and medicine shortages, there is no need for ekranoplans. Just as there is no need for aircraft carriers or spaceships, for example, due to a lack of funds for their construction or purchase.
                        In this case, the population doesn’t care what kind of government it is - if there’s nothing to eat.

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        The author's main opponent has provided ample evidence of this in his articles. From your perspective, there isn't, but from mine, there is a mild one (but until mass production and practical application begins, the hidden potential won't be revealed).
                        - that is, you are proposing to throw a mountain of funds into a project that even in your opinion is not needed not spicy - in the hope that maybe some positives will emerge later?
                        What if they don't come out?
                        There's a theory that the USSR overextended itself while building the "Golden Fish"—are you suggesting we test the Russian Federation's strength in this way?

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        See drones for entertainment content))
                        Drones proved themselves quite effective during the Arab-Israeli wars of the 1980s.
                        So this is not a 2022 discovery - it was known all 40 years before that. But all We prepared for 40 years for another war.


                        My God, are you some kind of security guard or something?

                        That is, not all 148 countries have enough money even for food, not to mention everything else, including ekranoplans.

                        There are... an infinite number of theories. That is, the bureaucracy couldn't do anything about the economy, or about ekranoplans, or about much else.

                        Of course, they showed it in the form of not only multicopters and not only what you know about, but then the bureaucracy couldn’t even do them, as well as many other things like mass electronics.

                        And then quadcopters appeared as mass-produced toys, and then someone came up with the idea of ​​broadcasting VoGs on them, and off it went.

                        Well, honestly, you couldn't do it either.
                        Doswidos
                      27. +2
                        12 June 2026 11: 52
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        My God, are you some kind of security guard or something?

                        Well, you apparently are not a reader.
                        Quote: your1970
                        So this is not a 2022 discovery - it was known ALL 40 years before that. But ALL We prepared for 40 years for another war.


                        Apparently yes - communication with you is pointless, you haven’t provided any evidence - only speculation about hidden efficiency, nothing more.
                        I'm tired of reading your demagoguery and rudeness.
                      28. 0
                        12 June 2026 12: 33
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        My God, are you some kind of security guard or something?

                        Well, you apparently are not a reader.
                        Quote: your1970
                        So this is not a 2022 discovery - it was known ALL 40 years before that. But ALL We prepared for 40 years for another war.


                        Apparently yes - communication with you is pointless, you haven’t provided any evidence - only speculation about hidden efficiency, nothing more.
                        I'm tired of reading your demagoguery and rudeness.


                        If you quote yourself and respond to yourself, then you are also reading my thoughts, I just didn’t mean to be so rude to you.

                        Let me give you a test as well.

                        Let's say you have a vitamin deficiency (meaning an acute shortage of certain vitamins and/or microelements), which manifests itself in your cognitive dysfunction and very informal logic (which you demonstrate brilliantly here).

                        In this case, you have an acute deficiency of these vitamins (an acute demand for them). The problem is that you're unconscious of this demand (partly due to cognitive dysfunction and illogical thinking).

                        That is, you have no demand for them and, accordingly, you don’t need them in your broken logic.

                        All the best and stay healthy!

                        But still, read Vinogradov at your leisure.
                      29. +2
                        12 June 2026 13: 08
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        The problem is that you are not aware of this demand (including due to cognitive dysfunction and an illogical way of thinking).

                        So, in 148 countries, the brains are not strong enough to comprehend the urgent need for ekranoplans - and you are the only one who is aware of their omission?
                        Sorry, the Lord God did not recognize you under this nickname.
                        How to build a couple hundred ekranoplans - you can say something about their feasibility, but for now you're just yapping, nothing more.
                      30. 0
                        13 June 2026 03: 18
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        The problem is that you are not aware of this demand (including due to cognitive dysfunction and an illogical way of thinking).

                        So, in 148 countries, the brains are not strong enough to comprehend the urgent need for ekranoplans - and you are the only one who is aware of their omission?
                        Sorry, the Lord God did not recognize you under this nickname.
                        How to build a couple hundred ekranoplans - you can say something about their feasibility, but for now you're just yapping, nothing more.


                        As I have already written (and am forced to repeat myself in connection with your illness), not in all 148 countries, if such a need exists, it may not be a priority, due, for example, to other more priority needs.

                        In some of the 148 countries, due to local circumstances, there may be no such need at all, or it may appear later as they develop.

                        In general, your demand for the presence of ekranoplans in all 145 countries (since China, Iran, and Russia are building them, more or less, and in other countries too, but not that much), in order to prove their feasibility to you personally, seems somewhat egocentric on your part and completely unfounded, and very similar to the phrase: "You give birth to me! And I'll call you back."

                        Well, and naturally, I’m not the only one who realizes this.

                        In general, Vinogradov and God help you.

                        I wish you happiness, with all my reservations above!

                        God bless you!
                      31. +2
                        13 June 2026 15: 49
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        In general, your DEMAND (?????!!!) is for the presence of ekranoplans in all 145 countries

                        When you distort, at least read your opponent.
                        For you, the Chinese, and others who don't understand Russian text -
                        I talked about POSSIBLE needs of 148 countries and that despite this POSSIBLE need - these countries do not build ekranoplans.
                        I can demand anything from my wife, nothing more.
                        But you continue to attribute to me things that I did not write.

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Vinogradov
                        - He's spinning in his grave from your distortions.
                      32. 0
                        14 June 2026 06: 22
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        In general, your DEMAND (?????!!!) is for the presence of ekranoplans in all 145 countries

                        When you distort, at least read your opponent.
                        For you, the Chinese, and others who don't understand Russian text -
                        I talked about POSSIBLE needs of 148 countries and that despite this POSSIBLE need - these countries do not build ekranoplans.
                        I can demand anything from my wife, nothing more.
                        But you continue to attribute to me things that I did not write.

                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Vinogradov
                        - He's spinning in his grave from your distortions.


                        You've finally decided to take your "epic file" operation to the point of absolute idiocy.

                        Regardless of your initial mention:

                        But there are no ekranoplans - which ALL countries in the world with access to large bodies of water can operate - there are 148 of them (!!!) and a couple dozen countries can build them - in any quantity.
                        Ratio and need:
                        Icebreakers - 3 countries out of 192 countries
                        Ekranoplans - 148 countries to 192 countries


                        Which continues to mutate from comment to comment. (I.e., it's impossible not to distort one of your numerous verbal mutations containing the phrase "148 countries")

                        I would like to receive from you your unambiguous and consistent view on the set of necessary and sufficient conditions, under which you would agree that ekranoplans are quite equivalent to other types of transport (of course, having their own disadvantages and advantages in comparison with other types of transport, like any other type of transport).

                        Well, and naturally, only 3-5 countries can build ekranoplans in more or less mass production (according to my information - China, Iran, Russia for sure ± possibly Singapore, USA)

                        Well, naturally, icebreakers are needed and operated not only by three countries, as I have already noted.

                        I will be watching your "epic file" with interest.
                      33. +1
                        14 June 2026 09: 12
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        But the ekranoplans - which CAN exploit ALL countries of the world with access to large waters - there are 148 of them (!!!) and CAN A couple dozen countries can build it - but not in any volume.
                        RATIO AND NEED:
                        Icebreakers - 3 countries out of 192 countries
                        Ekranoplans - 148 countries to 192 countries

                        I repeat again:
                        1) All countries with a developed aviation industry can build
                        Even you admit that they can build at least 5 (and at least France, Germany, and England are also included).
                        Having opportunity to purchase ready-made ones - significantly more.
                        2) The lack of proposals and the queue to the ekranoplan manufacturer mean one thing - lack of urgent need for them.
                        Even in the countries on your list
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        Only 3-5 countries can build it (according to my information - China, Iran, Russia for sure ± possibly Singapore, USA)
                        - there is no serial production of them.
                        Although at first glance, China would definitely need them to storm Taiwan

                        These two points together mean - regardless of your wishes and dreams!!! - there is no urgent need for ekranoplans.
                        As soon as it appears, they will invest billions and build it.
    2. +1
      4 June 2026 19: 57
      In general, Oleg did not disappoint in his bias.

      In general, I began to notice that the portal was turning into a gathering of clowns - Staver, Kaptsov, Skomorokhov...
      In the second Zen straight
      1. +2
        5 June 2026 03: 33
        Quote: spektr9
        In general, Oleg did not disappoint in his bias.

        In general, I began to notice that the portal was turning into a gathering of clowns - Staver, Kaptsov, Skomorokhov...
        In the second Zen straight


        All perform an important function for the site.

        => content => visitors => active discussion => visitor retention => advertising budgets.

        Nothing personal, just business.
  6. BAI
    -2
    4 June 2026 06: 06
    The ekranoplan is only suitable for landings.
    1. +1
      4 June 2026 06: 57
      Well, not just for landings. Externally, the use of EP is akin to [naval] aviation. Takeoff (going out to sea), reaching the designated area, combat deployment, return to base.
      And combat use - landing, disembarkation and evacuation of sabotage and reconnaissance groups, attacks on convoys and individual ships, strikes on ports and coastal communications of the enemy, cover of friendly naval groups, air defense.
      The most promising areas of application are the Caspian, Baltic, Black Seas, border lakes and rivers.
    2. +3
      4 June 2026 07: 17
      Quote: BAI
      The ekranoplan is only suitable for landings.
      It's not good for anything at all, except maybe for testing technologies.
    3. +1
      4 June 2026 10: 09
      I believe that, in addition to being used for landing forces, an ekranoplan would make an ideal anti-submarine aircraft, combining all the advantages of both an anti-submarine aircraft and an anti-submarine corvette. Don't you agree?
      1. +2
        4 June 2026 11: 12
        Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
        I believe that, in addition to being used for landing forces, an ekranoplan would make an ideal anti-submarine aircraft, combining all the advantages of both an anti-submarine aircraft and an anti-submarine corvette. Don't you agree?

        This has already happened with seaplanes - they say they can throw buoys and keep watch on the surface.
        The winner was a regular passenger plane, loaded with RGAB. A seaplane has a lower weight-to-weight ratio, the basic infrastructure is more complex and expensive, and the advantage of being able to land on water doesn't compensate for the risk of losing the aircraft during every takeoff and landing on the open sea.

        Plus, a number of hidden issues arise, such as the range of signals received from the radar. The VHF band requires radio visibility, which increases with the higher the patrol aircraft's flight altitude.
        1. +1
          4 June 2026 14: 15
          Quote: Alexey RA
          This has already happened with seaplanes - they say they can throw buoys and keep watch on the surface.

          There's no need to make things up; there's simply no point in keeping seaplanes on water. The purpose of using hydroplanes was to be able to refuel anywhere on the coast or even at sea. Plus, it allowed for communication with ships beyond helicopter range. However, there would have been a point in keeping them on water if the hydroplanes had been equipped with at least a helicopter-mounted sonar system.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The winner was an ordinary passenger plane filled with Russian State Anti-Corruption Bureau (RGAB).
          Where there is a developed airfield system. It's a shame that most of Russia's coastal regions can't boast this.

          Quote: Alexey RA
          the basic infrastructure is more complex and expensive
          What nonsense, why would a hydrodrome, a ramp for landing and a parking area (this is about a permanent base) be more complicated and expensive than an airfield with a strip of several kilometers, or even a couple, with taxiways and the same areas?!

          Quote: Alexey RA
          The advantage of being able to land on water does not compensate for the possibility of losing the aircraft during each takeoff and landing in the open sea.
          The EP is free of this drawback due to its much less rigid landing mode.

          Quote: Alexey RA

          Plus, a number of hidden issues arise, such as the range of signals received from the radar. The VHF band requires radio visibility, which increases with the higher the patrol aircraft's flight altitude.
          The range is limited to 60-70 km, simply due to the buoy's power. Accordingly, a height of 200-300 meters is sufficient. This is easily solved with a tethered drone antenna. And the ability to use the EP of virtually all known search systems and principles, both airborne and marine, is possible. Unlike ships and aircraft, this is not possible.

          https://topwar.ru/282262-bystryj-krepkij-zubastyj-i-do-sih-por-nuzhnyj.html
          1. +1
            4 June 2026 16: 52
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            What nonsense, why would a hydrodrome, a ramp for landing and a parking area (this is about a permanent base) be more complicated and expensive than an airfield with a strip of several kilometers, or even a couple, with taxiways and the same areas?!

            Probably because a seaplane aerodrome must also include an airfield with a runway of several kilometers, or even a couple, with taxiways and similar platforms.
            Because we're not San Diego or Hawaii. Almost all the seas where our fleet is based are either freezing or have the potential for ice formation. Plus, there's the risk of rough seas and storms. So, we need a regular runway—as was specified in the Ministry of Defense's specifications for Be-200 seaplane aerodromes.
            1. +2
              5 June 2026 04: 12
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Probably because a seaplane aerodrome must also include an airfield with a runway of several kilometers, or even a couple, with taxiways and similar platforms.

              Should it be included? To whom should it be included? For example, the Be-200 flight manual doesn't list such a debt.

              The Be-200ChS amphibious aircraft can be operated:
              from concrete runways of class A, B and C, having RTS according to ICAO categories I and II;
              from sea aerodromes with runway dimensions, m, not less than: length... 2700
              length when taking water . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3200
              width . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150

              Or the planned construction of the Zavoiko seaplane aerodrome in Zavoiko, Kamchatka Krai. Which didn't include a concrete runway at all. There was no physical space there.


              Quote: Alexey RA
              So, a regular strip is needed - as was in the Ministry of Defense's specifications for seaplane aerodromes for the Be-200.
              I'm afraid you've confused the need for an ADVANCED airfield within reach with the need for a mandatory concrete runway as part of a seaplane aerodrome.
              1. 0
                5 June 2026 11: 44
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Or the planned construction of the Zavoiko seaplane aerodrome in Zavoiko, Kamchatka Krai. Which didn't include a concrete runway at all. There was no physical space there.

                Kamchatka had enough sense to use Yelizovo as a land strip. However, building a seaplane aerodrome in a freezing bay for an amphibious vehicle is beyond comprehension.
                But in the Baltic, they designed a sea aerodrome complete with a land runway.
                1. +1
                  9 June 2026 03: 27
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Kamchatka had enough brains to choose Yelizovo as a land strip.

                  So, it suddenly turns out to you that a runway doesn't have to be part of a hydro-aerodrome? So what?

                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Although building a seaplane aerodrome in a freezing bay for an amphibious vehicle is beyond comprehension.
                  This is the level of understanding. Not understanding that the presence of a cheap airfield, or a ton of them, for a significant portion of the year is a blessing...
                  Just think about forest fires - they don't happen in winter.

                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  But in the Baltic, they designed a sea aerodrome complete with a land runway.
                  "Well, that's a great example. The thing about airfields is that they're also needed for land-based aircraft, right? Isn't that clear?
                  However, freezing waters are a problem even for large ships. This is a problem solved by icebreakers, which are used only three months a year.
                  I don't see any hand-wringing about this...
                  1. +1
                    10 June 2026 08: 01
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Kamchatka had enough brains to choose Yelizovo as a land strip.

                    So, it suddenly turns out to you that a runway doesn't have to be part of a hydro-aerodrome? So what?

                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Although building a seaplane aerodrome in a freezing bay for an amphibious vehicle is beyond comprehension.
                    This is the level of understanding. Not understanding that the presence of a cheap airfield, or a ton of them, for a significant portion of the year is a blessing...
                    Just think about forest fires - they don't happen in winter.

                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    But in the Baltic, they designed a sea aerodrome complete with a land runway.
                    "Well, that's a great example. The thing about airfields is that they're also needed for land-based aircraft, right? Isn't that clear?
                    However, freezing waters are a problem even for large ships. This is a problem solved by icebreakers, which are used only three months a year.
                    I don't see any hand-wringing about this...



                    By the way, I (as a passenger of a regular aircraft, who had the not very pleasant experience of circling around the airfield before landing with the obvious purpose of burning off fuel and then having my plane met by the fire brigade) would very positively evaluate the presence of a parallel hydrostrip at a regular airfield, at least from the point of view of increased chances of a safe landing in the event of landing gear failure and as a huge fire-fighting reservoir in the most extreme case.
                    1. +1
                      10 June 2026 20: 02
                      parallel hydrostrip at a regular airfield, at least from the point of view of increased chances of a safe landing in the event of landing gear failure

                      Landing on water is more difficult than on a solid surface.

                      As soon as the nose or wing gets even deeper into the water, the increased drag threatens to tear the glider apart.
                      1. +1
                        11 June 2026 02: 29
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        parallel hydrostrip at a regular airfield, at least from the point of view of increased chances of a safe landing in the event of landing gear failure

                        Landing on water is more difficult than on a solid surface.

                        As soon as the nose or wing gets even deeper into the water, the increased drag threatens to tear the glider apart.



                        Especially in case of chassis failure.

                        Continue to stretch the owl onto the globe.
                      2. 0
                        11 June 2026 03: 41
                        Quote: Ing Mech
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        parallel hydrostrip at a regular airfield, at least from the point of view of increased chances of a safe landing in the event of landing gear failure

                        Landing on water is more difficult than on a solid surface.

                        As soon as the nose or wing gets even deeper into the water, the increased drag threatens to tear the glider apart.



                        Especially in case of chassis failure.

                        Continue to stretch the owl onto the globe.


                        Yes, the only thing is that I always forget who I'm dealing with.

                        Naturally, a landing gear failure means an asymmetrical failure, i.e., out of three landing gears, at least one of the side ones has failed to deploy, and one of the side ones has deployed without the possibility of retracting.

                        That is, landing on the belly is impossible.

                        The hydro strip is an integral part of the airport with all the access roads and training for various scenarios.
                      3. +2
                        11 June 2026 04: 12
                        Naturally, a landing gear failure means an asymmetrical failure, i.e., out of three landing gears, at least one of the side ones has failed to deploy, and one of the side ones has deployed without the possibility of retracting.

                        That is, landing on the belly is impossible.

                        Research what actually happens when one of the landing gear struts fails before you start spouting nonsense about a rescue hydrostrip.

                        A two-point landing was performed, and the pilots held the plane in that position for as long as possible. Then the speed was reduced, and it glided along the runway with its wing.

                        Touching the water with one strut deployed will destroy the plane and kill everyone on board.
                      4. 0
                        11 June 2026 04: 21
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Naturally, a landing gear failure means an asymmetrical failure, i.e., out of three landing gears, at least one of the side ones has failed to deploy, and one of the side ones has deployed without the possibility of retracting.

                        That is, landing on the belly is impossible.

                        Research what actually happens when one of the landing gear struts fails before you start spouting nonsense about a rescue hydrostrip.

                        A two-point landing was performed, and the pilots held the plane in that position for as long as possible. Then the speed was reduced, and it glided along the runway with its wing.

                        Touching the water with one strut deployed will destroy the plane and kill everyone on board.


                        Why do I need it?

                        Hydro strip is
                        * easier integration of ekranoplans and seaplanes into existing infrastructure
                        * a network of low-cost reserve seaplane aerodromes in remote locations

                        Additional features
                        * theoretical increase in the survivability of passengers on conventional aircraft in certain situations.
                        * increased supply of fire extinguishing equipment

                        Stop trying to outshine others, engage in biased debates, and blame constructive opponents?

                        And don't be rude to me!
                      5. +1
                        11 June 2026 04: 49
                        Why do I need it?

                        Don't pretend you don't remember what you wrote in your comments.

                        the presence of a parallel hydrostrip at a regular airfield, at least from the point of view of increased chances of a safe landing in the event of landing gear failure

                        Asymmetric failure, i.e., of the three landing gears, at least one of the side landing gears failed to deploy, and one of the side landing gears deployed without the ability to retract.
                        And don't be rude to me!

                        It's funny. It's as if the rain were complaining about the wet streets.
                      6. -1
                        11 June 2026 07: 03
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Why do I need it?

                        Don't pretend you don't remember what you wrote in your comments.

                        the presence of a parallel hydrostrip at a regular airfield, at least from the point of view of increased chances of a safe landing in the event of landing gear failure

                        Asymmetric failure, i.e., of the three landing gears, at least one of the side landing gears failed to deploy, and one of the side landing gears deployed without the ability to retract.
                        And don't be rude to me!

                        It's funny. It's as if the rain were complaining about the wet streets.



                        So what does this mean!? That I'm not an aeronautical engineer!?

                        This is obvious, and I don't claim infallibility or absolute accuracy in my examples. But if you really want me to, I'll try to understand your points.
                        And I have no problem admitting that the wording and examples are unsuccessful.

                        If the plane can really land on one side landing gear or on one side landing gear and the front landing gear, then I am all for it as a passenger.

                        SO, IF THIS IS SO, THEN I AM WRONG IN THIS CASE WITH THIS SPECIFIC EXAMPLE! AND I ADMIT THIS.

                        Unlike the tendentious globe-throwers who are allowed to publish this here.

                        Let go.
                      7. 0
                        11 June 2026 07: 19
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Asymmetric failure, i.e., of the three landing gears, at least one of the side landing gears failed to deploy, and one of the side landing gears deployed without the ability to retract.


                        You are welcome!

                        This particular example is unfortunate.

                        This does not cancel out everything that

                        Hydro strip is
                        * easier integration of ekranoplans and seaplanes into existing infrastructure
                        * a network of low-cost reserve seaplane aerodromes in remote locations

                        Additional features
                        * theoretical increase in the survivability of passengers on conventional aircraft in certain situations.
                        * increased supply of fire extinguishing equipment

                        Stop trying to outshine others, engage in biased debates, and blame constructive opponents?

                        And don't be rude to me! ©
                      8. +2
                        12 June 2026 07: 29
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        And don't be rude to me!

                        Oh, what, you mean I was allowed to be rude to you, but with this opponent you're puffing out your cheeks out of resentment? I'll know better than to be rude to you...
                      9. +1
                        12 June 2026 09: 55
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        And don't be rude to me!

                        Oh, what, you mean I was allowed to be rude to you, but with this opponent you're puffing out your cheeks out of resentment? I'll know better than to be rude to you...


                        Get off me.

                        And don't threaten me here! ©
                        You won't make me laugh anyway, you'll only make me laugh.

                        May the Lord God and Vinogradov help you.

                        Goodbye, dear sir!
                      10. +1
                        11 June 2026 03: 46
                        Especially in case of chassis failure.

                        Splashdowns rarely ended well.

                        Ethiopian 961, in 1996
                      11. 0
                        11 June 2026 04: 01
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Especially in case of chassis failure.

                        Splashdowns rarely ended well.

                        Ethiopian 961, in 1996


                        The Hudson Case.

                        According to DiipSiik
                        The chances of a successful splashdown are approximately equal when landing on the belly, but not in favor of splashdown on the airport runway.

                        And higher for splashdown with the asymmetrical landing gear failure I described and other malfunctions that prevent a belly landing.

                        Thank you.
                        Everything has been clear with you for a long time now, and with your other nicknames and/or other adherents of the anti-ekranoplan sect.
                      12. +1
                        11 June 2026 04: 20
                        The Hudson Case.

                        That's why it was called the "Miracle on the Hudson," a combination of unlikely conditions

                        For every “miracle” there are dozens of examples of the opposite.
                        And higher for splashdown with the asymmetrical landing gear failure I described and other malfunctions that prevent a belly landing.

                        In this case, landing on water becomes impossible in principle.
                      13. -1
                        11 June 2026 04: 23
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        The Hudson Case.

                        That's why it was called the "Miracle on the Hudson," a combination of unlikely conditions

                        For every “miracle” there are dozens of examples of the opposite.
                        And higher for splashdown with the asymmetrical landing gear failure I described and other malfunctions that prevent a belly landing.

                        In this case, landing on water becomes impossible in principle.


                        If it's impossible, then it's impossible, get off me.
  7. +5
    4 June 2026 06: 53
    The comments are perplexing! Mines in the Baltic during WWI and WWII evoke the well-known saying about generals preparing for obvious reasons. During the entire period of the Central Military District, I don't recall any cases of warships being sunk by mines. And yes, Ukrainian drones are a new threat, but they only attack bases or patrol areas!
    Regarding the "Rescuer," I'd like to point out that at sea, whoever spots the missile takes the first steps to rescue it, rather than waiting for the "Rescuer" to arrive, splash down in a force-five storm, gently approach the distressed, gently embrace them, and then, like a white swan, calmly carry them back to shore. The task of delivering missiles to the launch site and returning them is much faster and easier with any Su-34, and a combat ekranoplan-missile carrier is simply unnecessary.
    Regarding the Americans and aircraft carriers, I would like to ask the question: why have the smart Americans still not invested a single dollar in the construction of ekranoplans comparable to ours?
    Well, the thesis about a "comprehensive comparison with similar samples" left me stumped. There simply aren't any similar samples! So what's there to compare it to?!
    1. +1
      4 June 2026 07: 35
      Quote: sansan
      Any Su-34 can perform the task of delivering missiles to the launch point and returning them back much faster and easier.
      That's right! Hats off to you...
    2. +1
      4 June 2026 11: 21
      Quote: sansan
      Regarding the "Rescuer," I would like to point out that at sea, whoever discovers something is the one who takes the first steps to rescue it, and does not wait for the "Rescuer" to arrive, land in a force five storm, gently approach the person in distress, and gently embrace them, and then, like a white swan, calmly carry them to land.

      In such weather, it is easier to land a boat and rafts - let the boat collect the dropped rescue equipment, drive it to those in distress and wait for the rescuers to arrive.
      Quote: sansan
      The task of delivering missiles to the launch point and returning them back can be accomplished much more quickly and easily by any Su-34, and a combat ekranoplan-missile carrier is simply not needed here.

      Well, how can you not understand? It's an airplane. There are air defenses against it. But an ekranoplan is a flying ship. Air defenses can't work against it. It can't, and that's that! laughing
      The question of the consequences of a hit by the same AIM-120 or, even worse, a revived AIM-54 on an ekranoplan, and the ekranoplan's methods of self-defense against everything that aircraft throw at it (and our enemies usually don't fight without a fighter umbrella), is usually tactfully addressed by ekranoplan apologists.
      Quote: sansan
      Regarding the Americans and aircraft carriers, I would like to ask the question: why have the smart Americans still not invested a single dollar in the construction of ekranoplans comparable to ours?

      It's Zadornov! smile
      1. +3
        4 June 2026 15: 44
        Quote: Alexey RA
        An ekranoplan is a flying craft. Air defenses can't operate against it. That's all there is to it!
        Really??? 🤭
        It won't come as a shock to you if I tell you that all aircraft carriers have regular AWACS aircraft, providing early warning of anti-ship missile launches several hundred kilometers away?
        1. 0
          5 June 2026 11: 49
          Quote: Luminman
          Would it shock you if I told you that all aircraft carriers have standard AWACS aircraft that provide early warning of anti-ship missile launches several hundred kilometers away?

          Again I forgot to put the tag /sarcasm. smile

          Seriously, I've written many times that the AUG's air defenses were designed to repel attacks by Tu-22Ms armed with supersonic DD anti-ship missiles, as well as the likes of Bazalts, Vulcans, and Granits. And now we're flying into all of this in an An-22 with missiles.
          If I remember correctly, in addition to the standard deck-based AWACS, NATO air force AWACS aircraft also operate over the sea, providing a picture for the air defense of the air force, and for the sailors as well.
      2. +1
        4 June 2026 16: 53
        Quote: Alexey RA
        In such weather, it is easier to land a boat and rafts - let the boat collect the dropped rescue equipment, drive it to those in distress and wait for the rescuers to arrive.

        At five points the waves?! Well, well.
        The airdropped rescue boats can certainly operate at the stated five-point force, but they first need to reach the target, exit the cargo hold, separate from the platform, and land safely on the water. And that's assuming the aircraft is on constant alert.
        And if not, then we still have to load up first. And in windy conditions—and force 5 is unheard of—the boat is capable of towing as many as three rafts. That's enough for 100 people at overload. And then we have to pull the survivors out of the water onto these rafts, and then find them first.
        Well, and of course, there can be no talk of any medical assistance, not to mention firefighting, with boats.

        Quote: Alexey RA
        The question of the consequences of a hit by the same AIM-120 or, even worse, a revived AIM-54, on an ekranoplan and the ekranoplan's methods of self-defense against everything that aircraft throw at it (and our enemies usually don't fight without a fighter umbrella)

        So you're not aware of the possibility of jamming, active or passive, with the ancient Lun? In vain, it existed.
        Or maybe you're not aware of the Lun's strength and size? They were.
        Or maybe they're not aware that air defense systems are used by aircraft? That means an antiaircraft missile (AG) has been deployed to Lun, of which there are only 10-12 in the world.

        Quote: Alexey RA
        Usually, ekranoplan apologists are treated tactfully.

        Usually opponents get off topic when it's time to argue their points.
        https://topwar.ru/282262-bystryj-krepkij-zubastyj-i-do-sih-por-nuzhnyj.html
        1. 0
          5 June 2026 11: 55
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          So you're not aware of the possibility of jamming, active or passive, with the ancient Lun? In vain, it existed.
          Or maybe you're not aware of the Lun's strength and size? They were.

          The EP's durability is aviation-grade. Otherwise, it won't take off.
          As for interference - "aiming at the source".
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Or maybe they're not aware that air defense systems are used by aircraft? That means an antiaircraft missile (AG) has been deployed to Lun, of which there are only 10-12 in the world.

          So, there can't be any other air force over the sea except carrier-based aircraft? Poor NATO countries—how do they protect their ships without aircraft carriers? smile
          Over the sea, in addition to carrier-based aircraft, the EP may encounter naval aviation or even air force personnel performing air defense missions.
          1. +1
            9 June 2026 03: 57
            Quote: Alexey RA
            The EP's durability is aviation-grade. Otherwise, it won't take off.

            You will be spat upon by the same, only slightly more informed, opponents of EP, just like you. laughing
            Because one of the main complaints about the EP is its low weight efficiency. Due to its excessive strength for aviation.
            But they don’t realize, as I’m afraid you don’t either, that this excess is offset by 1,5-2 times the lifting force on the screen.

            Quote: Alexey RA
            As for interference - "aiming at the source".
            And that's it? "Source Guidance" dramatically reduces hit accuracy, which, in the case of 4-12mm active plating and the corresponding "Lun" kit, further reduces the impact of damaging factors.
            And then there are towed and dropped decoys. And the firepower impact on a non-maneuvering, high-contrast, and vulnerable missile.

            Quote: Alexey RA
            So, there can't be any other air force over the sea except carrier-based aircraft? Poor NATO countries—how do they protect their ships without aircraft carriers?
            And how well are NATO ships covered in the Barents Sea, for example? Tell someone else about the omnipresence of NATO fighter jets over the Russian coast.

            Quote: Alexey RA
            Over the sea, in addition to carrier-based aircraft, the EP may encounter naval aviation or even air force personnel performing air defense missions.
            And what about UAVs? Are they invisible and invulnerable? The EP architecture allows for the deployment of UVPs with long-range air defense missiles, and radars for such missiles were practically already installed on the EP.

            I don’t see any of your revealing comments on my article about EP.
            https://topwar.ru/280953-dorogoj-slepoj-i-bestolkovyj-no-jeto-ne-tochno.html

            https://topwar.ru/282262-bystryj-krepkij-zubastyj-i-do-sih-por-nuzhnyj.html
      3. 0
        4 June 2026 20: 22
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Air defense systems can't operate against it. That's all there is to it!
        Not "can't," but "couldn't." Anti-aircraft missiles couldn't reach them at altitude, and anti-ship missiles lost lock-on due to their speed. Once air defenses could, they abandoned the ekranoplans.
    3. 0
      4 June 2026 16: 24
      Quote: sansan
      During the entire period of the Central Military District, I do not recall any cases of warships being sunk by mines.

      So, there were no losses from mines in the Northern Military District, so that means there can't be any? There were no losses from torpedoes in the Northern Military District either, but even for Russia, naval warfare isn't limited to the Northern Military District. And there are already ships sunk by torpedoes, in the most recent period. There will be losses from mines, too.
      Quote: sansan
      Regarding the "Rescuer", I would like to point out that at sea, whoever discovers something is the one who takes the first steps to rescue it.
      What profound knowledge of the subject... Generally speaking, the rescue is carried out by whoever gets to the site of the distress signal first. Helicopters can't do it further than 200 km from their base; ships, even at full speed, can only cover the same 200 km in four hours, and in force 5 waves, they can't reach that speed; airplanes can only drop rafts... So, yes. In strong waves and at a significant distance, an ekranoplan is the answer.

      Quote: sansan
      Any Su-34 can perform the task of delivering missiles to the launch point and returning them back much faster and easier.
      How long can an Su-34 hover in a holding area at least 500 km from an airfield? How many Su-34s does it take to launch six four-ton missiles? Can Su-34s simultaneously carry anti-ship missiles and conduct over-the-horizon reconnaissance? Can Su-34s carry anti-ship missiles for a year, ready to launch them at any time?
      No. Airplanes are good when there's an intact airfield, with missiles on it and a reconnaissance of the enemy. Not to mention the fact that the EP is also capable of using sonar systems from the water.

      Quote: sansan
      Regarding the Americans and aircraft carriers, I would like to ask the question: why have the smart Americans still not invested a single dollar in the construction of ekranoplans comparable to ours?
      Do you think Americans get free conceptual design work? You're wrong. They didn't build because they lost the incentive, thanks to the USSR.

      Quote: sansan
      Well, the thesis about a "comprehensive comparison with similar samples" left me stumped. There simply aren't any similar samples! So what's there to compare it to?!
      Oh, come on. In fact, the Lun's armament is almost identical to that of large missile boats and small missile ships. Except for the crucial parameter—speed. But more importantly, it's capable of employing the full range of air and naval anti-submarine search and attack capabilities, excluding helicopters, of course.

      It's not even ignorance, it's some kind of narrow-mindedness...
    4. 0
      5 June 2026 07: 11
      Quote: sansan
      Well, the thesis about a "comprehensive comparison with similar samples" left me stumped. There simply aren't any similar samples! So what's there to compare it to?!


      Naturally, with vehicles with a similar set of functions. That is, triphibias.

      We have a vehicle with
      1. The ability to remain in a double-legged position for a long time
      2. Have some autonomy
      3. The ability to move in displacement mode at maximum speed at a certain point
      4. Ability to independently go ashore and carry out loading and unloading operations on the shore
      5. Carry weapons/payload
      6. Full-fledged surgery at sea with some kind of illness
      7. the ability to move in non-displacement mode at maximum speed at a certain point

      It follows that it makes sense to compare only single-functional vehicles.
      1. SPK with the assumption that, theoretically, landing SPK with retractable wings or with unloading through the stern without wings could exist
      2. Skegs with air unloading with the same assumption
      3. SVP / KVP
      4. Seaplanes
      5. hydro-helicopters / hydro-multicopters
      6. Hydroconvertiplanes

      Next, the performance characteristics of each vehicle are compared, each of which (the performance characteristics element) is assigned a degree of importance (for this indicator)

      For example

      Ballance Importance 1
      Skeg ship X 6 points = standard = 100%
      Ekranoplan Lun 5 points = 75%

      Speed ​​0,5
      Skeg boat x 100 km/h = 20%
      Ekranoplan Lun 500 km/h = standard = 100%

      If we finish the comparison calculation here
      Skeg ship X 1*1+0,5*0,2=1,1
      Экраноплан лунь 1*,75+0,5*1=1,25

      The conclusion is that the Lun ekranoplan is superior in terms of all its important performance characteristics.

      Naturally, if you change the importance coefficients, everything can change.

      Everyone else nervously smokes on the sidelines with their increased efficiency in a particular function, but with a gigantic disregard for, for example, the infrastructure that works for this effective function.
  8. 0
    4 June 2026 07: 25
    A major problem for all navies is rescue operations. During World War II, all navies used fast small boats, such as torpedo boats and sea hunters, for this purpose, and, of course, floatplanes were also used. It would be easier to build a modern seaplane for rapid response and evacuation, one that could arrive on the scene in the shortest possible time. In case of heavy seas, it could also drop rescue equipment. As a strike vehicle, an ekranoplan is completely unnecessary; missiles and aircraft can handle that.
  9. +2
    4 June 2026 07: 33
    For example, when afloat, the Lun rested on the water with its fuselage and wingtip components. This structure was constantly subject to bending loads. One wing panel could be caught by a wave, while the other would partially or completely emerge from the water. As a result, the load was distributed extremely unevenly, creating significant stress in the structure.
    To avoid this, most likely, all the power elements of the ekranoplan structure, including the skin, work as a single unit, i.e. all bending and torsional loads are evenly distributed throughout the entire structure, rather than concentrated at jointsA good example of this is the well-known scheme flying wing, where the wing and fuselage are manufactured as a single unit, combining the entire load-bearing surface into a single structure, which eliminates stress concentration zones and better resists deformation under load...

    P.S. In my opinion, all these ekranoplans are nothing more than a dead-end branch of aircraft development. A squadron of 8-10 Tu-22M3s armed with cruise missiles is guaranteed to sink any aircraft carrier...
    1. +1
      4 June 2026 09: 56
      A squadron of 8-10 Tu-22M3s armed with cruise missiles is guaranteed to sink any aircraft carrier...

      If she caught him drunk and tied up, as they used to say in my childhood.
      In fact, three air regiments were allocated in the USSR to attack AUGs.
      1. +3
        4 June 2026 11: 23
        Quote from solar
        In fact, three air regiments were allocated in the USSR to attack AUGs.

        If I remember correctly, a detachment of forces was brought to VIF-2NE to guarantee the incapacitation of the aircraft carriers as part of the AUG operating in the North. There was a pair of each creature ©: a pair of Project 670M, a pair of “loaves” and two MRA regiments. smile
        1. +1
          4 June 2026 22: 09
          And also a long-range reconnaissance and target designation regiment.
          And here they are planning to sink with one squadron...
      2. 0
        4 June 2026 15: 42
        Quote from solar
        In fact, three air regiments were allocated in the USSR to attack AUGs.
        A squadron would be enough. Although a regiment was planned, if the strike group includes reconnaissance aircraft, tankers, and electronic warfare aircraft...
        1. -3
          4 June 2026 21: 44
          Three regiments is what was planned in the USSR.
          A squadron is enough.

          As soon as some squadron sinks an American aircraft carrier, let me know, I'm interested too.
          1. +2
            5 June 2026 04: 52
            Quote from solar
            As soon as some squadron sinks an American aircraft carrier, let me know, I'm interested too.
            If you only know what an aircraft carrier is and what a squadron is, you definitely...
        2. +1
          5 June 2026 11: 56
          Quote: Luminman
          A squadron is enough.

          Yeah... the squadron is sinking, two regiments are supporting. smile
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +5
      5 June 2026 06: 53
      The article, besides gritted teeth admitting that EP is not at all golden, is, as usual, a collection of omissions, bordering on lies, stupidity, forced characterizations, ignoring uncomfortable questions, and outright ignorance, which opponents of EP demonstrate time and again:

      ..."For example, it got caught in a storm, and all the flaps were crushed. They repair it, put it in order."
      ...Of course, there are also boats with a displacement of 400 tons. It is this "weight category" that is considered a niche for ekranoplans....
      ...It's worth remembering that the Iranian Navy's missile boats, small corvettes, and catamarans proved to be the most convenient targets...
      ...Vladimir chose the Project 1241 Molniya small missile boat (MRK) as an example for his article...
      ...Theories about the Lun's combat use were based on its claimed endurance of five days. However, even that figure seemed implausible...
      ...The ekranoplan will have to spend the remaining 100+ hours on the open sea, either in planing mode or drifting....
      ...All existing turbojet engines are designed to operate in a rarefied atmosphere, where they achieve their greatest efficiency...
      ...The "Caspian Monster" was equipped with 10 VD-7 engines, used on Tu-22 bombers.....
      ...of which about 400 tons were accounted for by the weight of the structure itself and fuel, which was enough for a 1500 km flight....
      ...And while the Orlyonok's payload (28 tons) was quite ordinary by transport aviation standards, its cruising speed (around 350 km/h) and range (1500 km) were noticeably inferior to those of an airplane....
      ...The impact at a speed of 400-500 km/h was comparable to hitting concrete....
      ...If, under such favorable conditions, over a quarter of a century, Alekseev's design bureau managed to build only a few ekranoplans, this clearly speaks volumes about the "prospects" of this field....

      But you chose the ONLY serious argument from the article by the opponent of ekranoplans - and refuted it...
      How ironic.
  10. +1
    4 June 2026 09: 12
    The idea is very intriguing. Build a wonder weapon for killing, and inexpensively.

    I remember, before my time, there were articles on the yellow internet: let's sling anti-ship missiles under the wings of the Chaika ground effect vehicle!!! and threaten the Americans.

    The authors didn't care that the Seagull Ekranolet wasn't included in the release—it's a purely civilian calculation model, and there's no way to hang it without a major redesign.

    The option of dropping water-launched missiles from the hold (I think there were some) if the "Chaika" were real... - the authors did not consider
    1. -1
      4 June 2026 11: 24
      Quote: Max1995
      I remember, before my time, there were articles on the yellow internet: let's sling anti-ship missiles under the wings of the Chaika ground effect vehicle!!! and threaten the Americans.

      Exocets under the I-153! © Zvyagintsev laughing
  11. Owl
    +2
    4 June 2026 09: 47
    Only as a rescue vehicle (rapid arrival, crew evacuation or provision of technical and medical assistance), it is possible to use it as a vehicle for the rapid delivery of cargo (delivery of air defense systems during a period of threat, delivery of a field hospital after a natural or man-made disaster).
    1. 0
      4 June 2026 09: 57
      An airplane will deliver more and faster. Over any terrain (mountains, taiga, megacities) over the shortest distance.
      1. Owl
        0
        4 June 2026 10: 42
        Landing of the plane is only at the airfield, exit to the gentle shore is possible with an ekranoplan.
        1. -1
          4 June 2026 10: 55
          Quote: Eagle Owl
          Landing of the plane is only at the airfield, exit to the gentle shore is possible with an ekranoplan.

          Are you suggesting that rescue operations, air defense systems, hospitals, and disaster relief be carried out only where the coastline is gentle? You'll have to negotiate with God about that.
          1. Owl
            0
            4 June 2026 20: 36
            These aren't questions for God, but rather questions of cargo capacity and logistics route planning. On the coast, ekranoplans are feasible; with a developed infrastructure, anything goes; in the swamps and taiga, helicopters, all-terrain vehicles, and pedestrians are all suitable.
          2. 0
            5 June 2026 07: 58
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Quote: Eagle Owl
            Landing of the plane is only at the airfield, exit to the gentle shore is possible with an ekranoplan.

            Are you suggesting that rescue operations, air defense systems, hospitals, and disaster relief be carried out only where the coastline is gentle? You'll have to negotiate with God about that.


            There are river beds, lakes and reservoirs

            It is possible to dig a network of water channels and runways along the coastline for ekranoplans and seaplanes with access roads in advance

            Just in case (remembering your ambiguous cognitive gullibility from the OBS series and not believing popular science literature): the water surface of such a runway does not require significant maintenance and restoration after an impact.
            1. 0
              5 June 2026 08: 54
              Yes, yes. Build a world for the ekranoplan. Sit there and wait for disasters.
              1. +1
                8 June 2026 09: 24
                Quote: Tlauicol
                Yes, yes. Build a world for the ekranoplan.

                For you, once again, it will be a revelation to learn that in remote areas, settlements are built along rivers and coastlines...
                1. 0
                  8 June 2026 10: 07
                  Of course, of course. And that's precisely where we need to dig a network of canals for the EP, evacuate the crews of sinking ships, and all the other nonsense your adepts have written above.
                  It's gotten to the point where they're proposing to use EP instead of bridges or tunnels across the straits. Because the rest is just a waste of time.
                  1. 0
                    9 June 2026 04: 04
                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    And it is precisely there that we need to dig a network of canals for the EP, evacuate the crews of sinking ships, and straighten out the nonsense that your adepts wrote above.

                    My followers? Is this some kind of joke?
                    It carries people away, that's for sure.
                    However, this doesn't change the fact that northern Russia is supplied by rivers and by sea during the summer navigation season. And that settlements are located along rivers and coastlines. And you can't argue with the fact that electric ships, unlike ships of any tonnage, can operate year-round, and, unlike aircraft, they have greater cargo capacity and are less sensitive to runway conditions.
                    Object.
                    Just don't talk nonsense about Ulan-Ude-Irkutsk flights.
                    1. 0
                      9 June 2026 05: 10
                      Object to the northern delivery of ekranoplans? About passenger transportation by ekranoplans?
                    2. 0
                      9 June 2026 05: 21
                      Why? Because no one needs ekranoplan passenger/freight transport on the Ulan-Ude-Irkutsk route?
                      1. 0
                        9 June 2026 08: 28
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Because no one needs ekranoplan passenger/freight transport on the Ulan-Ude-Irkutsk route?

                        Of course, they're not needed. Because there are airports in both places, and there's the federal highway and the Trans-Siberian Railway, of course.
                        But when you, quite a while ago, actually suggested launching EP flights between these cities, and then laughed at the fact that no one would use them, you completely "missed" all of this.

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Object to the northern delivery of ekranoplans?
                        What kind of EP? Where's the word on that? But the fact that deliveries stop when navigation ends is true. But passenger traffic and urgent freight shipments need to continue in winter, too. No, well, of course, if you think people in the North and the Far East hibernate in winter, then of course not.
                        Yes, "fallen woman", only on the banks of the Yenisei there are dozens of large NP, not counting the small ones and at some distance.
                        To not know about your country like that...
                      2. 0
                        9 June 2026 10: 01
                        There is a plane and a helicopter for this.
                        It's funny to watch you get angry and shout over and over again: EPs are not needed here, and they are not needed here, and nazers are not needed here either...
                        Poor residents of Yenisei, how come they haven't died out yet without EP?
                      3. 0
                        10 June 2026 03: 09
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        There is a plane and a helicopter for this.

                        An airplane needs a runway, and the heavier the airplane, the more stringent the requirements. A helicopter has a range of 200-250 km, with an insanely expensive engine hour and modest payload capacity.
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        It's funny to watch you get angry and shout over and over again: EPs are not needed here, and they are not needed here, and nazers are not needed here either.

                        It's hard to prove anything to Kaptsov's follower. wink

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Poor residents of Yenisei, how come they haven't died out yet without EP?
                        That's why I'm writing about how you know nothing (with a capital "N") about your homeland. Because you didn't die out, but you lived very "well" before any kind of motorization. And the EP can significantly improve this motorization.
                        Oh yeah, so Yenisei is, in your opinion, the only accessible place in Russia by air and difficult to access for other non-air transport?
  12. +1
    4 June 2026 10: 04
    Quote: qqqq
    There's a price issue there, it's cheaper to hit with ballistics.

    Please forgive me, we currently have several ekranoplans in Russia, all quite modest in size. Yes, they are essentially exhibition and demonstration models, built by private companies, BUT they would be ideal as a kamekaze drone...
    And the price will be quite reasonable...
  13. +2
    4 June 2026 10: 30
    An unmanned ground effect vehicle (UEV) with a payload of several hundred kilograms is literally battering down the doors of the SVO. If a moped can reach Kronstadt, what can a swarm of UEVs do in a combined attack with unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs) and unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs).
    Given the success of small boats in the Strait of Hormuz, I would not dismiss the idea of ​​the BEE.
    1. +3
      4 June 2026 10: 47
      An unmanned ekranoplan (UEP) with a charge of several hundred kilograms is literally breaking down the doors of the SVO.

      How is this different from a drone flying just above the water?
      1. +2
        4 June 2026 11: 01
        Carrying capacity. This year could even demolish a support for the Crimean Bridge. And radar signature at an altitude of 10 meters (UAV) and 4 meters (BEE) is practically identical. The He-111 carried two aerial torpedoes without any significant expense.
        1. 0
          4 June 2026 11: 18
          Load capacity.

          Did ekranoplans have a high carrying capacity?
          1. +1
            4 June 2026 13: 32
            Of course. The aerodynamic effect of a nozzle made of supporting surfaces and reflecting water.
      2. 0
        5 June 2026 08: 04
        Quote: Santa Fe
        An unmanned ekranoplan (UEP) with a charge of several hundred kilograms is literally breaking down the doors of the SVO.

        How is this different from a drone flying just above the water?


        ability
        Get on the water and be in waiting mode
        The ability to land on water and be refueled from a submarine
        And of course, the carrying capacity, as a friend wrote

        But that doesn't mean the idea of ​​a swarm of ultra-long-range, airplane-type UAVs is bad.

        This is also good, especially if there is a drone carrier that can quickly deliver them very far (the same Lun, which is essentially what it is in relation to drones like the anti-ship missile system)
    2. -1
      4 June 2026 10: 57
      The B-3 won't reach the dock with the corvette. Or the headquarters. Or the oil tank. It'll run into the first pier, bush, or fence. You won't even have to shoot at it.
      1. +2
        4 June 2026 11: 02
        The bush thing is valuable. But in reality, the finishing spur (something the PKR has had for half a century) could also be found in the BEE.
        1. -2
          4 June 2026 11: 39
          What does the final spurt have to do with it if this small thing (an aquaglide, an oriole) is flying on the screen, and its speed is low? A missile with such a payload can fly further, faster, and over any surface. Along a favorable route, and at any target, not just at sea.
          Smaller EPs will be inferior to FPVIs in these same categories. And you're not suggesting loading Orlyonok with TNT, I hope?
          1. +1
            4 June 2026 13: 36
            The same effect as a UAV against a cruise missile. The missile doesn't fly any further on the same fuel, since its lift is purely aerodynamic and comes at the expense of speed. A UAV can carry a 500 kg warhead and fly at cruising speed for five hours, if necessary.
            1. -2
              4 June 2026 14: 16
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              The same effect as a UAV against a cruise missile. The missile doesn't fly any further on the same fuel, since its lift is purely aerodynamic and comes at the expense of speed. A UAV can carry a 500 kg warhead and fly at cruising speed for five hours, if necessary.

              Why? If the rocket arrives three times faster. To any place. Even to the mountains.
              500 kg? That's 2,5 times smaller than the Ivolga. It'll be a small ekranoplan with the corresponding range and seaworthiness. Are you planning on building a kamikaze ekranoplan for a test tank?
              Some kind of sect
    3. 0
      4 June 2026 11: 30
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      An unmanned ekranoplan (UEP) with a charge of several hundred kilograms is literally breaking down the doors of the SVO.

      Here's another question: does it break?
      Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and long-range drones thrive due to their stealth and low speed. A ground effect vehicle (GEV) will glow much brighter due to its size, and its speed will prevent it from being rejected by any MDTs as "terrain clutter" or "interference."
  14. +2
    4 June 2026 11: 32
    As already noted, the author didn't disappoint. A litany of omissions, logical inconsistencies, and just plain stupidity, but at least Oleg didn't descend into outright lies, and that's a matter of opinion.
    Next:

    "For example, it got caught in a storm, and all the flaps were crushed. They repair it and put it in order."
    Not only is this about the KM, a vessel with clearly less seaworthiness than the Lun, if only because it lacks a ski-shock absorber, and not an insanely expensive one at that. There's also no follow-up to the sentence:
    " and accordingly, another stage of testing is already beginning. Since they mocked him in every way they could, repairs were frequent, that's what it was designed for".
    Silence combined with stupidity. Because even the loss of flaps, not during a storm, but during a landing on an unpredictable wave, won't lead to the destruction of the wind turbine, and ships and vessels, even large ones, very often (almost always) require repairs after a storm. And flaps are mentioned by those involved, almost as consumables.

    The problem wasn't the exorbitant cost.
    It's funny, this was almost the main complaint...


    Comparing ekranoplans to ships raises even more questions: modern Navy ships are significantly larger...
    ...Of course, there are also boats with a displacement of 400 tons. It is precisely this "weight category" that is considered a niche for ekranoplans.

    The author studiously "misunderstands" the difference between tonnage and armament. So, back in 84-86, the Lun was no worse armed than the significantly heavier Ovod, not even the Molniya, and, when converted to tons, no worse than the Karakurt, especially considering the radar. Accordingly, weight as a "niche" is nonsense. Armament is a "niche."

    It is worth remembering that the Iranian Navy's missile boats, small corvettes and catamarans proved to be the most convenient targets.
    It's worth remembering that ALL Iranian ships, regardless of tonnage, were sunk, at bay and without power, under overwhelming enemy air superiority and without countermeasures. Except for the torpedoed frigate. The author doesn't understand the difference between combat and a strike against non-maneuvering, unprotected, and undispersed targets without power. If the author isn't aware, then battleships were sunk in the same way, without much effort.

    As an example for his article, Vladimir chose the small missile boat (MRK) of Project 1241 "Molniya"
    So Oleg ignored the Ovod, Sivuch, and Sokol? What selective attention! I mentioned the Molniya as the closest in tonnage, yet significantly less armed.

    Examples include the Israeli Saar 4.5 class missile boats, the Turkish Tuzla patrol boats, and the Vietnamese TT-400TP.
    The author demonstrates a lack of understanding of the difference between attack and patrol ships. The lack of understanding of the difference between the Gabriel anti-ship missile, or even the Harpoon and Moskit, is just a trivial matter. And the fact that the Jews, Vietnamese, and Turks don't produce gas turbines, or even diesel engines, is completely unimportant.


    Speculation about the Lun's combat use is based on a claimed endurance of five days. However, even this figure seemed implausible... ...Based on Lun's operational data, during the most intensive testing period, the ekranoplan spent... about four days at sea. This is the total for all sorties throughout 1989.

    Why does the car write nonsense, while I feel ashamed? They don't conduct range tests. The most they test is fuel economy, not even cruising. The author doesn't understand the most basic...
    As a pure example of the author's understanding of the naval theme, the "Malyutka" class boats, with a surface tonnage of 208 tons, a hull of 45 x 3,5 meters (one and a half times smaller in volume than the "Lun" hull) and a crew of 36 people, had an endurance of 10 days... That is, the more capacious "Lun" with a crew 2-3 times smaller and a half-empty hull could not have had half the endurance of a boat crammed with systems and mechanisms, in the author's understanding...

    At a cruising speed of 400–500 km/h and a practical range of 2000 km, the main fuel supply will be consumed in a few hours. The remaining 100+ hours will have to be spent on the open sea, either in planing mode or drifting.


    Hand - face... That's the whole point of warships: spending time on the open sea, not at full speed... Using their equipment, from radar to sonar. Oh yes, the infamous Molniya had about that same cruising range, not even at cruising speed. And half of its endurance was spent on the round-trip.

    All existing turbojet engines are designed to operate in a rarefied atmosphere, where they achieve their greatest efficiency.

    An unnecessary demonstration of the weak knowledge of the opponents of the EP - unprincipledly modified turbojet engines, aviation ones!!, work perfectly, with very high efficiency, both in power plants and in gas pumping, and on both gas and diesel fuel.

    The "Caspian Monster" was equipped with 10 VD-7 engines, the same ones used on the Tu-22 bombers. ...There was a certain irony in this: just two of these engines were enough
    No. Because the KM used non-afterburning VD-7 models for 3M bombers. Moreover, judging by the time, they were written off from flying machines due to unreliability. That's the irony...
    1. -1
      4 June 2026 11: 33
      The "Monster", in turn, demonstrated a record takeoff weight (544 tons), of which about 400 tons were the weight of the structure itself and fuel, which was enough for a flight of 1500 km.
      It's hard to call it an outright lie, but it looks like one. Because there's NOTHING about the fuel weight of either the KM or the Lun—meaning the author INVENTED 160 tons of fuel, because the KM's empty weight is known to be 240 tons. And this fiction becomes even more silly the more you read about the engines, which have maximum takeoff, maximum continuous, and cruise thrust ratings, which, with a quality rating of 20, would require no more than 20 tons per 400 tons of takeoff weight. And that's not counting the numerous references to KM loading for balance and payload checks. Loading for maximum takeoff weight is mentioned separately.
      Well, the fact that the author confused the estimated takeoff weight and the weight with the maximum fuel reserve is already commonplace.

      And if the Orlyonok’s payload (28 tons) was quite ordinary by the standards of transport aviation, its cruising speed (about 350 km/h) and range (1500 km) were noticeably inferior to those of an airplane.
      The fact that the Orlyonok was amphibious, and in this respect was not inferior to air-cushion landing craft, surpassing them in speed and range, is apparently unknown to the author.

      Unlike airplanes, ekranoplans were unable to perform deep turns without the risk of their wings catching the water surface.
      This is nonsense and it is analyzed in my article.
      https://topwar.ru/280953-dorogoj-slepoj-i-bestolkovyj-no-jeto-ne-tochno.html
      The impact at a speed of 400-500 km/h was comparable to hitting concrete.
      And this is even more stupid. Because the author, as usual, confuses contact with a collision. Supercars don't detach from concrete/asphalt, and that's okay. And the worst-case scenario is that the EP will touch the water with a float with its cutting edges.

      The total flight time of the Lun (less than 80 hours) also did not allow us to draw conclusions about the safe operation at such an altitude.

      I'm amazed at the author's selective vision. My article analyzes measures to completely eliminate this risk, and those that have already begun to be implemented. But no. Statistics aren't enough for him. And what about KM and Orlyaty, did they row?

      At sea state five, a raft or boat lost among the wave crests is only visible from a height of several kilometers from a height of 10–20 meters. This is approximately three to four times less noticeable than if searching from a height of at least 200 meters.
      And again, the author's selective vision. The "Rescuer" was supposed to have a standard, long-term search mode at 300 meters. Testing at such an altitude for Lun is mentioned, incidentally, in the article Oleg referenced... A good article, not without errors, but good nonetheless. It's a shame Oleg read it in his signature style...

      If, under such favorable conditions, over a quarter of a century, Alekseev's design bureau managed to build only a few ekranoplans, this clearly speaks to the "prospects" of this direction.
      So, the squabble between the shipbuilding and aircraft industries, the shifting of resources from naval aviation to surface forces and back again, the removal of Alekseyev as chief designer, the cuts and complete cessation of funding—in the end, are these really such "favorable conditions"? Hmm. That's what the opponents of the EP are all about: a stubborn refusal to notice inconvenient things...

      Naturally, the author lived up to all expectations.
      Almost everything.

      Because the article finally contained an argument that wasn't absurd, based on ignorance, lies, and silence.
      Fatigue stresses in the joints of such a wide structure could also pose a problem for ekranoplans.

      However, even here Oleg couldn’t do without his signature trick – distortion.
      Because the quote is incomplete and the translation is very inaccurate.
      1) Ship operations restricted to 15 knots in Sea State (SS) 4 (max. significant wave height 2.5m/8.2ft), avoiding bow and beam seas as far as practical. Ship should follow published Seaway Operator Guidance (SOG) for SS 0-3
      2) No operation in SS 5 or greater. If SS 5 is unavoidable, ship should slow down to 10 knots in head, bow or beam seas
      does not mean at all that
      The USS Omaha (LCS-12) is not permitted to operate in wave heights of 2,5 m. Speeds above 15 knots are prohibited.
      This means that with a 2,5-meter wave, the speed is limited to 15 knots. It's not an either-or situation. And with a larger wave, the speed should be reduced to 10. For such a large ship, this is absurd. It's hard to argue.
      As far as I remember, this isn't due to the "connecting nodes," but to insufficient thickness of the lower hull skin. Slamming (the strong impact of waves on the bottom) against this skin is inevitable in the event of large waves and high speeds, which leads to crack formation and, consequently, to limitations. In other words, a design flaw. I'm not sure, but the alloy is also problematic, as with the first Orlyonok prototype.

      But, for Lun, this drawback is offset, partially, and perhaps completely, within the limits of the declared seaworthiness, in takeoff mode - by blowing under the wing, which means a lower takeoff speed and time of exposure to the wave.
      And in displacement mode, it's the wing structure. Because the spars, which span the entire wing height and span, are far from the same as the transverse framing of a ship's hull; they're much stiffer. However, I'm confident in the wing's spars, but I don't recall any data on the Independence's framing—but then, the Independence's problem isn't the framing, but the skin.
    2. 0
      4 June 2026 20: 24
      Here, in the distant 84-86, the "Lun" was armed no worse than the significantly heavier "Ovod"

      Worse, less armed

      The Ovod missile ships received air defense systems and missiles with a launch weight of 5 tons, and there was still room left for artillery.

      For this reason, the "heavier Ovod" wasn't even mentioned in the comparison with the EP. The second reason is the simpler (i.e., cheaper) design of the Ovod missile system itself, as well as its propulsion system, compared to the Molniya.
      1. 0
        5 June 2026 05: 10
        Quote: Santa Fe
        Worse, less armed

        The Ovod missile ships received air defense systems and missiles with a launch weight of 5 tons, and there was still room left for artillery.


        That's all you are. To look at one parameter, questionable because a missile's greater mass doesn't necessarily mean it's better, and to draw a conclusion about its superior armament based on that parameter...
        The Malachite had a range of 120 km versus 250 km with the high flight profile of the Moskit, and transonic versus Mach 2.

        The SAM system also had questionable characteristics, especially in terms of interception altitude for anti-ship missiles (25-60 meters) and a rate of fire of two rounds per minute. It was practically useless against anti-ship missiles, as the destruction of the Musson demonstrated.

        Quote: Santa Fe
        The second reason is the simpler (i.e. cheaper) design of the Ovod missile system itself, its power plant, compared to the Molniya
        So, larger, with room for a SAM system, and a more advanced superstructure, the Ovod is simpler than the Molniya? Amazing logic. Although, what am I surprised about...

        And a propulsion plant with three 112-cylinder radial engines and three propellers may be a little simpler in layout than a propulsion plant with two cruise and two afterburning gas turbine engines, but it is only twice as expensive.

        Quote: Santa Fe

        For this reason, the "heavier Gadfly" was not even mentioned when comparing it to the EP.
        I don't care that in your article about the Gadfly, in mine it is mentioned as significantly heavier, but equally armed with an EP.

        Well, in general, again a set of omissions and stupidities - as the basis for opponents of EP.
        1. +2
          5 June 2026 06: 37
          The Malachite had a range of 120 km versus 250 km with the high flight profile of the Moskit, and transonic versus Mach 2.
          And the air defense missile system had questionable characteristics.

          Vladimir, you have a mistake in your reasoning.

          The performance characteristics of the weapon are not important in this case if we are talking about the size of the ship and the load, How much does the weapon weigh? the designers managed to fit on board

          At the time of creation, Malachite and Wasp were available, when the time came for Gadfly to arm himself with 12 Onixes at once as an experiment.

          The Gadfly's size and load capacity have always allowed it to carry twice as many strike weapons than the Lun and a full-fledged air defense system with radio command guidance (not some cheap MANPADS-flexible) + quite massive 57-76 mm artillery

          Nowadays, it could be the UKSK and some naval version of the Buk air defense system, for example.
          of The Ovod missile system and its power plant, compared to the Molniya
          That is, larger, with space for an air defense missile system, with a more developed superstructure.

          We are comparing the cost of bare platforms, hull and power plant without weapons.

          With weapons and combat systems, the smallest boat can be made at the cost of a frigate.
          In mine it is mentioned as being significantly heavier, but equally armed with EP.

          So it's your mistake. Why should I repeat it?
          1. +1
            5 June 2026 08: 33
            Quote: Santa Fe
            At the time of creation, Malachite and Wasp were available, when the time came for Gadfly to arm himself with 12 Onixes at once as an experiment.

            If the EP had been modernized in 1996, then based on the mounting locations and dimensions, it would have accommodated 16 Onyxes. 3 x 6 PU. Formally, it weighs 8, but in reality, it doesn't.

            Quote: Santa Fe
            The dimensions of the Gadfly and its load-bearing capacity always allowed it to carry twice as much strike armament as the Lun.
            What load factors? Have you heard anything about stability? But Lun, given the KM's 540-ton maximum takeoff weight with the same thrust-to-weight ratio, could REALLY lift and haul twice as much as it was originally equipped with. Only the inclined launchers wouldn't allow it.

            Quote: Santa Fe
            Nowadays, it could be the UKSK and some naval version of the Buk air defense system, for example.
            The architecture of small ships doesn't allow them to fully utilize the advantages of the vertical-propellant missile system, unlike the Lun's empty hull. And given the enormous potential cargo capacity of the EP, it outguns smaller ships of significantly larger size.

            Quote: Santa Fe
            We are comparing the cost of bare platforms, hull and power plant without weapons.
            Rub your eyes, I didn't mention the cost of weapons and equipment in my article or here - "with space for an air defense system" is not an air defense system.

            Quote: Santa Fe
            So it's your mistake. Why should I repeat it?
            What's stopping you from understanding that I used ships comparable in armament and equipment to compare their cost without armament and equipment? Okay, let's take the Sivuch 1239, with only 8 Moskit anti-ship missiles versus 6 Lun. With a PURE aluminum hull that's 3 (THREE) times heavier, an extremely complex bottom shape, and only half the power of a significantly more complex propulsion system.
            Since you don't like Gadfly.
            1. 0
              5 June 2026 11: 17
              Let's take "Sivuch" 1239, only 8 anti-ship missiles

              + SAM system weighing almost 10 tons + artillery turret, 13 tons, and 2 AK-630, a couple of tons each

              The Steller sea lion is significantly larger than the EP. It's as easy to compare the EP to frigates.

              Regarding the design complexity of the 1239, it's excessive for the small missile class. It's a dead-end. Short sprints at 45 knots? Doesn't justify the effort and expense.

              EP is unlikely to follow this example.
              "with space for a SAM system" is not a SAM system.

              Hull structures are the smallest expense item on a warship.

              If we don't consider the weapons, then it's worth talking about the power plant

              The cost of diesel engines and their operating costs - how they compare to the cost of 4 Lightning gas turbines
              The architecture of small ships does not allow them to take full advantage of the UVP.

              Among the smallest ships equipped with UVP are the 800-ton Karakurts
              What other advantages are we talking about in this case, besides the very fact of having a UVP?

              It is irrational to install too many modules on a small missile ship when there are not enough missiles even for rank 1 units.
              1. +1
                8 June 2026 05: 10
                Quote: Santa Fe
                EP is unlikely to follow this example.

                Of course, but what should we benchmark against? What other ships carried missiles comparable to the six Moskit missiles, which are essentially the main anti-ship weapon today? So, you fail to understand that the displacement-to-weapons ratio is one of the most important parameters for a warship...

                Quote: Santa Fe
                Hull structures are the smallest expense item on a warship.
                Without which, a ship cannot exist. And 1/3 to 1/2 of the ship's total cost can be considered the smallest expense item.

                Quote: Santa Fe
                The cost of diesel engines and their operating costs - how they compare to the cost of 4 Lightning gas turbines
                I've already written about three 112-cylinder diesel engines, two 12000-horsepower boosters and two 5000-horsepower cruisers, being about half the price. That's when you install them. Not counting two propellers versus three. But operationally, things are noticeably worse. The diesels' downtime is frankly short. In case you weren't aware, that's about the Gadfly and the Lightning.
                But why don't you compare them to the Lun? They have a tenfold speed advantage, but only a twofold advantage in engines without gearboxes, shafts, propellers, or air ducts...
                Once again I am convinced that opponents of EP do not understand either the relationships or even quite simple things in general.

                Quote: Santa Fe
                Among the smallest ships equipped with UVP are the 800-ton Karakurts
                What other advantages are we talking about in this case, besides the very fact of having a UVP?
                Hand face... The man who imagines that an 800-ton ship is better than a 400-ton ship with equal armament, and a lower chance of survival, writes something about naval affairs...

                Quote: Santa Fe
                It is irrational to install too many modules on a small missile ship when there are not enough missiles even for rank 1 units.
                Alles... Missiles are consumables... That's not counting the limitations associated with placing the propulsion plant, fuel, and other things on small ships. Although, what can you expect from someone who can't calculate the endurance of 10-15 people? laughing
                1. 0
                  9 June 2026 17: 44
                  What other ships carried missiles comparable to the 6 Moskit missiles, which are, in fact, the main anti-ship weapon at the present time?

                  This is where it really should have started.

                  The class of 400 (500, 600) ton high-speed small missile ships has disappeared. Didn't live up to expectations - easy targets in any war, no chance of success

                  EPs performed precisely in this size, and now they have neither competitors nor missions. The tactic of countering AUGs with small ships is a thing of the past.

                  The current Karakurts, Saar 5 are noticeably larger and they are not designed for daring attacks on naval formations.

                  Very small boats and gunboats (Tuzla, Island, etc.) are used for patrols and no one has high expectations for them.
                  But why don't you compare them to the Lun? It's a tenfold speed advantage, while the gearless motors are only twofold faster.

                  The Gadfly could carry 12 Oniks missiles and air defense systems, not counting artillery.

                  How can you seriously compare weapons that are so different in terms of weaponry? units - Gadfly and EP

                  Hand face... A man who imagines that an 800 ton ship is better than a 400 ton ship with equal armament

                  Such ships cannot be "equal", 800-ton he will definitely win in something

                  The extra 400 tons didn't just happen. We won't consider the option of a structurally underloaded ship with some missing armament for the sake of cost savings.
                  Alles... Rockets are consumables...

                  A destroyer's ammunition complement costs half the cost of a destroyer. Most warships around the world don't have a standard ammunition complement, they don't physically have missiles, and production is dwindling.

                  A small missile ship with a ton of missiles on board won't survive long and is unlikely to have time to expend such a load. Placing too many UVP modules on such a carrier is pointless.
                  Without which, a ship cannot exist. And 1/3 to 1/2 of the ship's total cost can be considered the smallest expense item.

                  1/3 of the total cost - true for ships with the most primitive weapons and equally primitive, by class standards, power plants

                  https://thediplomat.com/2015/06/how-much-do-chinas-warships-actually-cost/

                  With the Gadfly, with its armament composition and sophisticated power plant, given its size, the hull portion was hardly a significant part of the cost estimate.
                  1. 0
                    10 June 2026 05: 11
                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    The 400-(500, 600)-ton class of high-speed small missile ships has disappeared. They failed to live up to expectations – easy targets in any war, with no chance of success.

                    Is that why they were replaced by similarly armed, but slower-moving, but heavier 800-tonners? And any war, even one where the enemy doesn't have overwhelming air superiority.
                    But EPs are only vulnerable against jet aircraft.


                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    EPs performed precisely in this size, and now they have neither competitors nor missions. The tactic of countering AUGs with small ships is a thing of the past.

                    Even in Soviet times, the primary purpose of small missile ships, to oppose carrier strike groups, is a widely publicized folly. At worst, small missile ships were supposed to support a strike against a carrier strike group as part of a combined, coordinated strike using all naval assets. Or, alternatively, to provide escort in peacetime.

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    The Gadfly could carry 12 Oniks missiles and air defense systems, not counting artillery.
                    How can one seriously compare units with such different armaments - the Gadfly and the EP?

                    Initially, these small missile ships had COMPARABLE strike, search, and reconnaissance capabilities, even significantly in favor of the EP. Can't you read or compare dates?
                    And why couldn't the EP carry 12 Oniks missiles later, with minimal modernization, like the Ovod? Why? Again, the EP had a significantly greater potential payload than its original weight, which could accommodate anti-ship missiles, air defense systems, and even cannons. It all boiled down to the angled launchers. And the Ovod's was limited by stability.

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    The current Karakurts, Saar 5 are noticeably larger and they are not designed for daring attacks on naval formations.
                    A small missile boat isn't a torpedo boat. And the over-the-horizon missile launch ranges and radar's over-the-horizon capabilities don't align with "daring attacks." And how can we be sure the same missiles as the Karakurt can't be mounted on the EP? After all, tactics are determined by armament, not to mention propulsion performance.

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    Such ships cannot be “equal”; the 800-ton one will definitely win in some way.
                    The extra 400 tons didn't just happen.
                    Well, it's elementary... Ships that use different principles for their primary propulsion mode, and have completely different architectures, of course, can't be equal. Equal, even though they have EQUAL weight. That's why a 400-ton warship can easily be equal to an 800-ton surface ship. Even without taking into account the speed advantages.
                    How can you ignore this?

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    A destroyer's ammunition costs half the destroyer's worth.
                    Don't talk nonsense. The Orly Burke destroyer has 100+ launchers. That's only if they're all loaded with Standards at 4-5 million units. That's half of a billion, and the third Orly unit costs almost two billion. With Tomahawks, it's 1/4, 1/5.
                    Well, in case you weren't aware, we need to leave room for the much cheaper Sea Sparrows and Asrocks.

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    Most warships around the world do not have a standard ammunition load, they do not physically have missiles, and production is at a trickle per year.
                    UVPs allow for cheaper options when expensive ones are in short supply. And your assertion is VERY dubious. There are enough missiles for one full ammo bank; this problem only arises during mass launches.

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    A small missile ship with a ton of missiles on board won't survive long and is unlikely to have time to expend such a load. Placing too many UVP modules on such a carrier is pointless.
                    Apparently you're not aware of salvo firing... Just as you're not aware of the possibility of deploying SAMs instead of anti-ship missiles. And once again, for the umpteenth time, the EP at sea is much more survivable than the NK.

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    1/3 of the total cost - true for ships with the most primitive weapons and equally primitive, by class standards, power plants

                    Yes, a third to half of the total cost is with the propulsion plant. I admit it. Only the propulsion plant, like the hull, can be different.
                    Orly Burke without saturation with weapons BIS and radar - 900-1000 million d. Propelling power plant from 4 turbines up to 100 million. So no need for fairy tales about primitive weapons and engines.

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    With the Gadfly, with its armament composition and sophisticated power plant, given its size, the hull portion was hardly a significant part of the cost estimate.
                    You're not serious, are you? Go ahead and write that you're not serious... With three diesel engines and a significant share of AMG in the ship's tonnage—"barely a significant part of the budget"?!
                    But what can you expect from an "expert" who is incapable of assessing the autonomy of a 240-300-ton ship?
                    Oh yeah, why are you so sure that EP can only be used as an MRK?
                    1. 0
                      10 June 2026 08: 01
                      Were they replaced with similarly armed, but less fast but heavier 800-tonners?

                      Karakurt is not a replacement for Soviet missile ships.

                      Initially, the deployment of long-range cruise missiles was intended to circumvent the INF Treaty, which prohibited land-based deployments. Later, the 22800s became a cheap alternative to frigates. Out of desperation.
                      Initially, these MRKs had COMPARABLE

                      Gadfly is about 20 years older than Lun.

                      By the time Lun was created, the Ovod's original equipment was no longer relevant. The modernized version ("Nakat") demonstrated just how powerful a 600-ton Soviet-era small missile ship could be at the turn of the 80s and 90s.
                      And why shouldn't the EP carry 12 Onyxes later, with minimal modernization, like the Gadfly?

                      Probably because 12 Oniks, an Osa SAM system, a 76mm artillery mount, and an AK-630 weighed significantly more than 6 Moskits and a turret with a machine gun.

                      And to manage this diversity, a crew of dozens of people was present on board the missile ship.
                      This is why a 400-ton EP can easily be equal to an 800-ton NK.

                      It can't. Karakurt was built in different conditions and for different purposes.
                      cheaper Sea Sparrows

                      Which are 4 in one cell, according to the standard regulations
                      Cheaper options when there are not enough expensive ones. And your statement is VERY dubious.

                      There are no cheap options for loading UVP
                      https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/785-million-later-us-navy-still-cant-reload-tomahawk-missile-launchers-bw-010926
                      Apparently you don't know about salvo firing...

                      A ship with leaky air defenses and no anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities risks not reaching its launch point. Mounting a large number of expensive strike weapons on it is impractical.
                      Orly Burke without saturation with weapons BIS and radar - 900-1000 million d. Propelling power plant from 4 turbines up to 100 million. So no need for fairy tales about primitive weapons and engines.

                      So it's not Berk. The price structure for the Chinese Freightliner 054A is listed there.

                      For a heavily armed Burke with his radars and turbines, the cost of the hull, if I remember correctly, is 10% of the estimate.
                      Oh yeah, why are you so sure that EP can only be used as an MRK?

                      Where else can high-speed performance be required with a meager battery life - and a cost comparable only to extreme projects missile boats of the USSR Navy
                      1. 0
                        11 June 2026 05: 15
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Karakurt is not a replacement for Soviet missile ships.
                        Initially, the deployment of long-range cruise missiles was intended to circumvent the INF Treaty, which prohibited land-based deployments. Later, the 22800s became a cheap alternative to frigates. Out of desperation.

                        The 21631 is a means of circumventing the DRMSD, while the 22800 is a more seaworthy development of the Buyan-M. To transform the Karakurt from a barge for launching long-range cruise missiles into a ship of some use at sea, the Karakurt was equipped with the purely anti-ship Mineral radar system, meaning the Karakurt became a slower-speed analogue of the Soviet small missile ships.
                        And the Karakurt can't be a frigate, even a lousy one, due to its lack of anti-submarine weapons. In other words, it's a COMPLETE analogue of a small missile ship.
                        You are completely off topic ...

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        The modernized version ("Nakat") showed how toothy a 600-ton Soviet-style small missile ship could be at the turn of the 80s/90s.
                        So you're fundamentally ignoring the possibility of upgrading the EP? On top of which, in fact, ship-based launchers were installed, with virtually no adaptation.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Probably because 12 Oniks, an Osa SAM system, a 76mm artillery mount, and an AK-630 weighed significantly more than 6 Moskits and a turret with a machine gun.
                        One of the mainstays of the opponents of EP is ignoring the obvious.
                        The KM had a maximum takeoff weight 160 tons greater than the Lun, with the same maximum thrust and less seaworthiness.
                        That's 26 missiles, mind you, including the launchers. Or 12 Osa-M air defense systems with 24 missiles. Even 60 tons beyond the original Lunevskaya payload would completely dwarf the Ovod's payload.
                        "Machine gun turret", well, that's just a little touch - two AKUs with 8 23mm cannons...
                        A crew of 15-20 people is sufficient for shift duty at three posts. For example, the main propulsion plant doesn't require constant maintenance by numerous sailors.



                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        There are no cheap options for loading UVP
                        https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/785-million-later-us-navy-still-cant-reload-tomahawk-missile-launchers-bw-010926
                        This is not an answer; the nonsense about the cost of a BC being half the cost of an EM remains nonsense.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Which are 4 in one cell, according to the standard regulations

                        400-700 million when the bookmaker is completely full is not half, but at worst a third.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        A ship with leaky air defenses and no anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities risks not reaching its launch point. Mounting a large number of expensive strike weapons on it is impractical.
                        Oh well... But for the EP, during the transition, the underwater threat is not a threat, as are most of the air attack weapons.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        So it's not Berk. The price structure for the Chinese Freightliner 054A is listed there.
                        A murky investigation from The Diplomat? What else would you expect from someone who considers silence, ignorance, and complete ignorance to be their code of conduct... Only appeals to the "most authoritative" naval publication. laughing


                        The full procurement cost of a modern Arleigh Burke destroyer (the latest Flight III series) is approximately $2,5–$2,7 billion. The total costs are split roughly equally: Shipyard portion ($850 million–$1 billion):
                        Design, fabrication of steel hull, installation of 4 General Electric LM2500 gas turbine engines, cabling, piping and basic mechanical systems.
                        Links from Google AI, login via VPN.
                        https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/RL32109
                        https://news.usni.org/2023/09/06/navy-reveals-contract-costs-of-latest-10-hull-destroyer-deal

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Where else can high speed qualities be required with meager autonomy?
                        You persistently demonstrate complete ignorance of maritime affairs. And ignorance in general.
                        Because, for example, such qualities are quite in demand in naval aviation, and EPs can easily replace attack aircraft, anti-submarine aircraft, and patrol aircraft, only with landing on water, which means a much longer stay in the patrol area.
                        But your general ignorance does not allow you to understand this.
                        And their shameful naval ignorance prevents them from understanding that in a hull the size of three or four train cars, providing self-sufficiency for a crew of even 40 is no problem at all. Even with a typical urban water consumption of 100 liters per person per day—an obvious absurdity for a warship—you only need 40 tons for 10 days. And only four tons of rutabagas. If you understand what I'm talking about, of course...
                        Even the Il-76 has a full endurance of 1-1,5 days, using its built-in water tanks. And 2 months without airfield services.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        the cost is comparable only to the extreme projects of the USSR Navy's missile boats
                        "Extreme" is extreme only due to your ignorance. The Molniya was an ordinary large boat. The Ovod was an ordinary small ship. Today's AMKs are small missile ships without turbines only because they are not in production, while light alloys and composites, which are even less costly and durable, are no less widely used.
                      2. 0
                        11 June 2026 12: 17
                        And Karakurt can't be a frigate, even a lousy one.

                        Of course it could be.

                        https://ru.krymr.com/amp/tsirkon-tsirkon-raketa-flot-korabl-karakurt-kerch-more/32501659.html

                        The current fleet was built for the appearance of having a fleet, and a project like the 22800 came in handy.

                        The Karakurt's purpose is to perform the role of larger ships. From a military standpoint, it's certainly difficult to call it practical.
                        The KM had a maximum takeoff weight

                        How cleverly they jumped to another project

                        You stopped being satisfied with Lun as soon as it became clear that it would not be possible to place the entire Nakata weapons system
                        A murky study from The Diplomat?

                        Hull structures are a small part of the destroyer's cost, it's an open secret

                        Just think about this fact:

                        https://www.forbes.ru/forbeslife/360761-pora-v-kruiz-royal-caribbean-postroila-layner-za-15-mlrd?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com

                        Now look at the size and displacement of Burke
                        The nonsense about the cost of a BC being half the cost of an EM remains nonsense.

                        It was stupid to say that "rockets are consumables"

                        In fact, it is rare, expensive ammunition, the cost of which stands out noticeably against the background of the carrier
                        -----

                        Regarding the use of anti-submarine warfare (ASW) – escorting a squadron or formation doesn't require 240 knots; for that, you need a ship with a continuously operating under-keel sonar system with a diameter of 5 meters and weighing tens of tons.

                        And all the necessary equipment - a low-frequency towed antenna kilometers long, a helicopter and weapons, various Asroks

                        For ocean searches, a plane with RGB and ELINT systems, based on a passenger airliner, operates at 900 km/h. Its combat radius is 4-5 times greater than that of the Lun.

                        Where did you see potential for EP here?
                      3. 0
                        13 June 2026 18: 50
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Of course it could be.

                        https://ru.krymr.com/amp/tsirkon-tsirkon-raketa-flot-korabl-karakurt-kerch-more/32501659.html
                        What a disgrace.

                        Of all the words that sneered, confirming the stupidity of the Karakurt frigates, albeit cheaply, only:
                        Representatives of the Russian Ministry of Defense are touting the Karakurt as a cheaper replacement for the Project 11356R Burevestnik frigates.


                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        and a project like 22800 came in handy.
                        Well, of course, people like you apparently understand the role of the navy in the same way. But this idiocy doesn't allow you to designate a ship with the functions of a small missile attack ship as a frigate, no matter how much you want to.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        The KM had a maximum takeoff weight
                        How cleverly they jumped to another project
                        You stopped being satisfied with Lun as soon as it became clear that it would not be possible to place the entire Nakata weapons system

                        I see that you are not betraying your moral principles in any way.
                        Because "forget" about the words: "with the same maximum thrust and less seaworthiness." Only a person with your moral principles can do this. For whom it is acceptable to remain silent about something critically important.
                        And silence, as we know, is a form of lying.
                        Once again, the KM had a virtually identical thrust-to-weight ratio to the Lun (your "Tu-22 engines" is a lie), a virtually identical architecture, comparable wing area, and inferior seaworthiness. Furthermore, the KM's estimated maximum takeoff weight was comparable to the Lun's—400 tons.
                        So why shouldn't Lun also demonstrate a significantly greater takeoff weight than the original, as demonstrated by KM?
                        Once again, you have brilliantly confirmed your reputation on this site - the reputation of a person for whom lying and ignoring the obvious is the norm.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        https://www.forbes.ru/forbeslife/360761-pora-v-kruiz-royal-caribbean-postroila-layner-za-15-mlrd?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com

                        Ahaha, and this person considers it wrong, “not in good conscience”, to compare KM and Lun.
                        You're comparing a commercial airliner to a warship, actually. You don't understand that a warship requires more durable steels, a more complex structure to enhance survivability, stricter inspection of joints and plates, stealth measures, and, mind you, low-temperature operation. The steel alone can cost four to eight times more.
                        You don't understand the fundamental things... It's not even ignorance.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        In fact, it is rare and expensive ammunition.
                        And also "rare". Well, at least not rare. laughing
                        Missiles are consumables. They are consumables, albeit expensive ones. And your picture is just another silliness, because a decline in the production rate of a particular missile could indicate anything—that arsenals are becoming saturated with that type of missile, or that a decision to phase out that missile... Not understanding this is just plain stupid.


                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        ...to escort a squadron or a formation, you don't need 240 knots; you need a ship with a continuously operating under-keel sonar system with a diameter of 5 meters and a weight of tens of tons.

                        And all the necessary equipment - a low-frequency towed antenna kilometers long, a helicopter and weapons, various Asroks

                        For ocean searches, a plane with RGB and ELINT systems, based on a passenger airliner, operates at 900 km/h. Its combat radius is 4-5 times greater than that of the Lun.

                        Where did you see potential for EP here?


                        You don't know about small RTOs,
                        you don't know about submersible antennas,
                        you don't know about the survival rate for towed antennas,
                        you don't know about the discrete method of searching for PL,
                        you don't know about ensuring the stability of SSBNs,
                        You don't know about the typical altitude and patrol speed of UAV aircraft.

                        You are a complete zero in this topic.
                        It's decided, there will be an article titled +- - "Silence, Ignorance, and Ignorance. What Opponents of EP Hold on to."
                      4. +1
                        14 June 2026 11: 45
                        and cheap, Karakurt frigates - only:
                        Representatives of the Russian Ministry of Defense are touting the Karakurt as a cheaper replacement for the Project 11356R Burevestnik frigates.

                        Black and white

                        Come to terms with the obvious already.

                        You're comparing a commercial airliner and a warship, actually. That is, you don't understand that a ship requires more robust

                        Oh, the famous hurdy-gurdy about “military standards” has started.

                        https://www.ng.ru/armies/2019-%2011-04/100_carrier041119.html

                        The Minister of the Navy also doesn't understand anything, comparing the "floating hotel" to an aircraft carrier.
                      5. 0
                        15 June 2026 04: 31
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        and cheap, Karakurt frigates - only:
                        Representatives of the Russian Ministry of Defense are touting the Karakurt as a cheaper replacement for the Project 11356R Burevestnik frigates.

                        Ahaha, who are they, these mysterious "representatives" who reported to the chumps about all the Navy's plans?
                        That's why there were statements from official representatives of the Ministry of Defense at Army-2015, but not a word about replacing the Burevestniks with Karakurt tanks. "Experts" like you invented nonsense and sold it to people like you.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Oh, the famous hurdy-gurdy about “military standards” has started.
                        Oh my God, you've exposed the naval mafia that's been selling ships that are actually barges to the state at exorbitant prices.
                        You can't even understand the difference between construction and scheduled repairs, and that it's a question of organization and time... The article is actually about that.
                        with whom they shared their experience of effective maintenance in working order its large fleet of huge cruise ships.

                        And by the way, why doesn't it bother you that an aircraft carrier twice as light costs 10 times more than a cruise ship? And the criticism of aircraft carriers isn't about the cost, but about the fact that they don't perform their intended functions.
                        Once again I am convinced that you are simply illiterate.
                      6. 0
                        15 June 2026 10: 29
                        Ahaha, who are they, these mysterious "representatives"?

                        Commander-in-Chief Chirkov
                        You exposed the naval mafia that was selling at exorbitant prices

                        Vladimir, you missed the point again.

                        Admirals are indignant about the timing, citing Carnival's floating hotels as an example, without any mention of the complex design and, accordingly, greater labor intensity in servicing military ships

                        (Obviously, the admirals know that the differences are not as great as they are often made out to be)

                        This is the most remarkable conclusion from the article.

                        Against this background, all your explanations:
                        "A more complex design to increase survivability, stricter control of joints and sheets, measures to reduce visibility, and, just a minute, ensuring operation at low temperatures.

                        sound unconvincing
                        There, steel alone can cost 4 to 8 times more.

                        The cost of materials is also exaggerated

                        At the same time, you modestly failed to notice the 20-fold difference in the amount of steel required to build a destroyer and a cruise liner.
                      7. 0
                        16 June 2026 05: 49
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Commander-in-Chief Chirkov

                        One could have written, “It’s obvious, judging by the state of the Black Sea Fleet, what competence the commander-in-chief has,” but a little later there were different words:
                        "The newest light corvettes should be viewed more as a complement and continuation of the Project 21631 Buyan-M small missile ships with a displacement of approximately 950 tons," said Vice-Admiral Viktor Bursuk, Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy for Armament. So your "frigate replacement" is just empty talk.
                        https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4755630?ysclid=mqfwy9iv3303703139
                        \
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        Vladimir, you missed the point again.
                        You sucked this essence out of your finger.

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        (Obviously, the admirals know that the differences are not as great as they are often made out to be)
                        This is the most remarkable conclusion from the article.
                        Just like the "conclusion" - it was sucked out of your finger to justify your nautical ignorance.
                        Because the article doesn't mention the difference in construction costs, but only the enormous, 15-fold, difference in the duration of scheduled repairs and the delays in repairs.
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        with whom they shared their experience of effectively maintaining their large fleet of huge cruise ships in working order.
                        They perform maintenance on a 700-foot floating hotel in 28 days.
                        which began in March 2019, was required to be completed within 16 months, but this period eventually increased to 28 months

                        The conclusion from the article is that the deadlines, if not shortened—which is certainly desirable—should at least not be extended. And not your empty rhetoric...

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        At the same time, you modestly failed to notice the 20-fold difference in the amount of steel required to build a destroyer and a cruise liner.

                        I've long noticed the inability of EP opponents to perform even the most basic cognitive tasks. Even mental arithmetic and comparisons. EM's 20 times smaller tonnage and roughly equal cost correspond to AV's ±2 times smaller tonnage and 10 times the cost. Who modestly overlooked this? Especially considering your tendency to completely ignore the inconvenient...

                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        The cost of materials is also exaggerated
                        And this is written by someone who supposedly knows a lot about warships. You're ignorant of maritime and naval matters, I repeat. And you don't know how to draw conclusions from what you've read. Because materials aren't the only factor in the cost of building ships, much less boats. There's also technology, hull design, deck and bulkhead installations, cable and pipeline systems, and protection classes for all of this. And then there's quality control for all of this.

                        You have completely failed in the EP, and not even in the evidence, of course, in that too, but in moral issues, practically no longer hiding lies as an argument, and now you are floundering in questions that are not related to the EP.
                      8. +1
                        16 June 2026 09: 52
                        but just a little later there were other words:

                        As if that cancels out what was said before

                        The commander-in-chief seriously voiced his intention to consider the Karakurt as a replacement for the frigates.
                        not a word about the difference in construction costs, but only about the huge, 15-fold, difference in the duration of scheduled repairs and delays in repairs.

                        Compared to a civilian airliner

                        (Earlier, when comparing military and civilian equipment in this way, you comically protested that this couldn't be done. But then the Minister of the Navy voiced this thought.)

                        At the same time, no hints were made on the differences in the design of civilian and military ships, which could justify Long repair times. Apparently, these differences aren't that significant (unless, of course, you consider the weapons themselves).

                        Time = money
                        20 times less in tonnage and +- equal cost of EM correspond

                        Symphony of the Seas ($1,5 billion, 2018)
                        Destroyer Paul Ignatius ($1,8 billion in 2019)

                        Standard displacement varies ~ 30 times

                        At least half of Symphony of the Seas's cost is for its fittings, furnishings, and luxury items. The hull structure (materials and labor), for example, accounted for half of that total (750 million). I think you'll agree with this assessment.

                        Now let's look at your table.

                        A comparison between the cheapest steel used for the liner's skin and the most expensive steel with a yield strength of 80-100 MPa, used for individual Burke components, would hardly be objective. But even in this case, no 8-fold difference is discernible.

                        The hull and powertrain of a liner and destroyer are mainly assembled from materials that vary in cost. 3 timesEven if it's 4 times, in our case it's already insignificant.

                        A destroyer's displacement is 30 times smaller. High-quality steel and its manufacturing require four times the cost. The Symphony of the Seas' hull cost $750 million, meaning the destroyer's hull should cost around $100 million. Even accounting for the incredible cuts in military contracts, this line item barely exceeded 10% of the total cost ($1,8 billion).

                        It turns out that your doubts were in vain; the hull structures make up a small portion of the cost of the Burke
                      9. 0
                        14 June 2026 12: 31
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U


                        You are a complete zero in this topic.
                        .

                        With all due respect, you surpass Oleg only in puffing out your cheeks.
                        In all other respects, it's as far as the moon goes on foot.
                      10. +1
                        15 June 2026 04: 38
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        With all due respect, you surpass Oleg only in puffing out your cheeks.

                        Pfft. This is written by a man who strictly follows in his guru's footsteps—he keeps silent, and silence is a form of lying, ignoring the obvious, ignoring the simplest... Yes, Kaptsov's stupidity alone about "Lun's meager autonomy" demonstrates the "depth of the depths" of his knowledge of naval matters. As does yours, by extension.
                        And the strict cutting off of information about the repair of the KM also demonstrates moral qualities.
                        So who is whose adept there?
  15. 0
    4 June 2026 12: 28
    A biased article. Instead of a good analysis, the author simply doesn't like the idea of ​​EP and tries to present "evidence" that fits that bill. Along the lines of: the sun is absolutely useless and even harmful; it produces radiation, flares, and, worst of all, you can get sunburned on the beach. The entire presentation of the material is in this vein.
  16. +2
    4 June 2026 12: 49
    Empty chatter. Engineering and design personnel and production capacity have been lost. Reverse engineering the Harrier is pointless, as it's so outdated. New personnel are of little use—the disgrace of the Il-112, Baikal, and Ladoga demonstrates that they couldn't even handle the design of small and medium-sized aircraft. And no amount of legislation or even billions of dollars in cash will help here.
    1. +1
      5 June 2026 08: 26
      Quote: whowhy
      Empty chatter. Engineering and design personnel and production capacity have been lost. Reverse engineering the Harrier is pointless, as it's so outdated. New personnel are of little use—the disgrace of the Il-112, Baikal, and Ladoga demonstrates that they couldn't even handle the design of small and medium-sized aircraft. And no amount of legislation or even billions of dollars in cash will help here.


      Well, all the content on this site is just empty chatter.

      But still, as a people's think tank, it will do just fine.
  17. 0
    4 June 2026 14: 55
    Each class of aircraft has its niche. Ekranoplans are perfectly suited for patrolling coastal waters and can operate successfully in tandem with conventional patrol aircraft. They can also be used for cargo transportation. They are also suitable for civilian applications—for example, transporting passengers along rivers—where Meteors and Raketas once operated. Only ekranoplans will be faster.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        4 June 2026 17: 02
        Not border guards, but humpbacks with dace
  18. +4
    4 June 2026 16: 23
    Well, let's begin.
    Participants discuss the merits of technology that has been unable to prove its usefulness for decades.

    Participants have been discussing the Russian system for 30 years, which has failed to prove its usefulness.

    Six Be-200s from the Russian Ministry of Emergency Situations and several Japanese Shin Meiwas were enough to cover all global needs for heavy amphibious aircraft.

    Enough, and the fact that Siberia burns out every year, and China ordered 17 AG600, is of no interest to the author.

    Based on Lun's operational data, during the most intensive testing period, the ekranoplan spent about four days at sea. This is the total for all sorties throughout 1989.

    So, in the author's opinion, if the Buran crashed once due to a breakdown, does this show its uselessness, or does the fact that the Yak-141 only made a couple of test flights make them useless machines?

    But the beauty of technical exploration doesn't necessarily require every idea to be realized. The most absurd concepts eventually fade away.

    Judging by our cosmonautics, dear author, the very idea of ​​space exploration is absurd, am I right?
    You know, author, you remind me of the fable of the fox and the grapes. We can't do it anymore, so there's no need. We only need the oligarchs' super yachts.
    1. -4
      4 June 2026 16: 38
      Quote: spektr9
      Well, let's begin.
      Participants discuss the merits of technology that has been unable to prove its usefulness for decades.

      Participants have been discussing the Russian system for 30 years, which has failed to prove its usefulness.

      Six Be-200s from the Russian Ministry of Emergency Situations and several Japanese Shin Meiwas were enough to cover all global needs for heavy amphibious aircraft.

      Enough, and the fact that Siberia burns out every year, and China ordered 17 AG600, is of no interest to the author.

      Based on Lun's operational data, during the most intensive testing period, the ekranoplan spent about four days at sea. This is the total for all sorties throughout 1989.

      So, in the author's opinion, if the Buran crashed once due to a breakdown, does this show its uselessness, or does the fact that the Yak-141 only made a couple of test flights make them useless machines?

      But the beauty of technical exploration doesn't necessarily require every idea to be realized. The most absurd concepts eventually fade away.

      Judging by our cosmonautics, dear author, the very idea of ​​space exploration is absurd, am I right?
      You know, author, you remind me of the fable of the fox and the grapes. We can't do it anymore, so there's no need. We only need the oligarchs' super yachts.

      Bravo good A typical example of a sect. No comments, they are unnecessary. good
      1. +3
        4 June 2026 16: 52
        Bravo, a typical example of a cult. No comments, they are unnecessary.

        Well, when there is nothing to answer, of course it is unnecessary hi
        The main thing is to get your graphomania onto the site and that's good, and the fact that I wrote complete nonsense and called it an article, well, that's okay)
        1. 0
          4 June 2026 17: 29
          I've been answering for almost 16 years, but the EP sect needs faith - it displaces critical thinking.
          Ten years later, the plane was taking off from ships. Twelve years later, it was sinking them. Twenty years later, it was crossing the ocean...
          Ekranoplans are a hundred years old. How are things going, sect? Are you showing any promise?
          See you in another 16 years drinks
    2. +1
      4 June 2026 22: 37
      That is, in the author's opinion, if the blizzard flew off once due to the collapse

      If I'd flown again, I'd have been left penniless. The Buran turned out to be several times more expensive than the American Shuttles, it was only a cosmetic imitation, and even the Shuttles were ultimately abandoned for economic reasons.
      The fact that the Yak-141 only made a couple of test flights

      The Americans abandoned the three-engine design long before us, back at the Conveyor Model 200 project stage in the 70s.
      When Yakovlev's team developed the VTOL aircraft, they knew full well that a multi-engine VTOL aircraft would be a failure; Yakovlev himself was against it. Nevertheless, they continued to develop it, as the design bureau wanted to return to the military contracts from which they had been pushed.
    3. -1
      4 June 2026 22: 56
      Quote: spektr9
      Well, let's begin.
      Perhaps.
      Quote: spektr9
      Enough, and the fact that Siberia burns out every year, and China ordered 17 AG600, is of no interest to the author.
      How are you planning to use the Be-200 in the taiga? Siberia isn't Greece; there's no sea, so it won't be able to refuel there.
      Quote: spektr9
      So, in the author's opinion, if the Buran crashed once due to a breakdown, does this show its uselessness, or does the fact that the Yak-141 only made a couple of test flights make them useless machines?
      Yes. Buran's purpose disappeared when the decision was made to de-militarize space. The need to maintain a constellation of strike satellites disappeared. The remaining tasks could be accomplished with much cheaper means.
      The Yak-141 is yet another vertical-lifter. We managed quite well without it. I never heard anyone say, "If only we had a Yak-141, everything would have been different!"
      Quote: spektr9
      Judging by our cosmonautics, dear author, the very idea of ​​space exploration is absurd, am I right?
      Quite a pathetic manipulation.
      1. +1
        5 June 2026 04: 15
        Perhaps.

        We'll grind one more

        How are you planning to use the Be-200 in the taiga? Siberia isn't Greece; there's no sea, so it won't be able to refuel there.

        It seems you haven't been to Siberia, my good friend, otherwise you would know that there are no airfields here, but Lake Baikal and three great rivers such as the Yenisei, Ob, and Lena are present, where the Be-200 operates perfectly.

        Yes. Buran's purpose disappeared when the decision was made to de-militarize space. The need to maintain a constellation of strike satellites disappeared. The remaining tasks could be accomplished with much cheaper means.
        The Yak-141 is yet another vertical-lifter. We managed quite well without it. I never heard anyone say, "If only we had a Yak-141, everything would have been different!"

        Well, that's right, it's not necessary, but the SVO has been going on for five years without an adequate satellite constellation. And without aircraft carriers, the interception and diversion of Russian merchant fleets is successfully carried out... And so, the beautiful Marquise, everything is fine—we're building superyachts and smiling and waving. hi
        Quite a pathetic manipulation.

        Quite a pathetic comment, my friend.
        1. 0
          5 June 2026 12: 02
          Quote: spektr9
          It seems you haven't been to Siberia, my good friend, otherwise you would know that there are no airfields here, but Lake Baikal and three great rivers such as the Yenisei, Ob, and Lena are present, where the Be-200 operates perfectly.

          The problem lies elsewhere. Extensive experience has been accumulated abroad using firefighting aircraft. It turns out that the effectiveness of large firefighting floatplanes (and large firefighting aircraft in general) is significantly lower than that of medium-sized ones (like the CL). The reason is simple: small and medium-sized firefighting aircraft (including floatplanes) have relatively less demanding requirements regarding the size and equipment of their water refueling platforms and are more quickly turned around.
        2. 0
          5 June 2026 12: 10
          Quote: spektr9
          We'll grind one more
          We'll see.
          Quote: spektr9
          But Lake Baikal and three great rivers such as the Yenisei, Ob and Lena are present, where the Be-200 works perfectly
          So write "not in Siberia", but near Lake Baikal and along the great Siberian rivers.
          Quote: spektr9
          And without aircraft carriers, the interception and reversal of the Russian merchant fleet is successfully carried out.
          Using our only aircraft carrier for a task that a corvette can handle?! You're a strategist!
          Quote: spektr9
          Quite a pathetic comment, my friend.
          The main thing is that he is truthful, comrade!
  19. 0
    4 June 2026 17: 23
    So many letters and not even a few letters to put together - such a device could destroy even the simplest and cheapest FPV drone.
  20. +1
    4 June 2026 20: 56
    As for its autonomy, comparing it to a ship in the near-field is roughly equivalent to someone commuting to work every day and working a shift schedule. An ekranoplan arrives, fires, and returns, the crew eats in the mess hall, sleeps in the barracks, the ammunition is reloaded by technicians at the base, and repairs and maintenance are also carried out there. A small missile ship, on the other hand, has to bring ammunition, fuel, food, and water to sea and reload it afloat.
    There's no point in a small missile system's long-range missile system; at the very least, a frigate would be needed. And according to the article, a ground effect vehicle (Ekranoplan) has a range of 2000 km.
    1. +2
      4 June 2026 21: 05
      The ekranoplan arrived, fired, and returned. The crew ate in the canteen and slept in the barracks.

      How cunning you are

      It's unknown when the shooting will have to take place. You must remain in the designated location at all times.

      This is the essence of the ships' autonomy.
  21. +1
    5 June 2026 01: 13
    I don't know why ekranoplans are needed, but the water surface is an ideal place for low-flying vehicles and gliding, so this advantage should be taken into account when creating new specialized aircraft.

    As for large ships, their time is running out. They are too big and too slow targets for flying threats, which will grow exponentially.

    So the author who proves the uselessness of ekranoplans should not compare them with the usefulness of the modern fleet

    It is no coincidence that during the last war the US easily outmaneuvered the Iranian fleet and so far can do nothing about the Iranian boats.

    The destruction of the Iranian fleet of large ships by the US is primarily due to aviation

    As for ocean raiders, perhaps only submarines have such a future.

    This is of course in a somewhat more distant future, but at least large ships in the near future will no longer be able to operate so confidently along the coast, and their main drawback is extreme vulnerability in port.

    So the author of the article greatly underestimates speed in favor of autonomy.

    Speed, awareness, and stealth will be paramount in future warfare. Ships may be extremely aware and even less observable than they are now, but their speed will not allow them to compete with aircraft and missiles.
    1. +1
      5 June 2026 05: 20
      Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
      So the author of the article greatly underestimates speed in favor of autonomy.

      The author also wrote something simply stupid about autonomy. Why 15 people in a space the size of three or four train cars can't achieve five days of autonomy is something only the author knows. It's simply impossible.
      1. 0
        5 June 2026 07: 09
        I don't think that's the issue, but rather that the author doubts the ekranoplan's stability in the open ocean. Can this craft withstand hurricanes and storms and remain buoyant? I think the author is right about that.

        For now, the modern ekranoplan is a device of the moment

        According to the designers' concept, it carries a large arsenal of weapons, attacks and quickly disappears, and its radius does not exceed the radius of a fighter, despite the fact that it is much more vulnerable not only to return fire from the enemy, but also to terrain and weather conditions.

        The ekranoplan in its current form is indeed of little use for the navy, but the ground effect is a useful phenomenon and has great potential, primarily for transporting people and cargo in hard-to-reach areas.

        Such a device should combine the functions of an airplane, an ekranoplan, and a hovercraft.

        Such a device could be useful for strike missions, including as a quick way to deliver drones without exposing them to return fire from the enemy.
        1. 0
          5 June 2026 09: 48
          Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
          I don't think that's the issue, but rather that the author doubts the ekranoplan's stability in the open ocean. Can this craft withstand hurricanes and storms and remain buoyant? I think the author is right about that.

          The ability to take off in 3,5-meter waves speaks to the hull's high strength. This means the EP is at least as seaworthy as ships of equal or slightly greater tonnage.

          Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
          According to the designers' idea, it carries a large arsenal of weapons, attacks and quickly disappears, and its radius does not exceed the radius of a fighter, despite the fact that it is much more vulnerable not only to return fire from the enemy
          The EP is not a torpedo boat; it does not need to reach visual detection range; its equipment allows it to search for targets and launch missiles over the horizon.

          However, more details can be found in my article.
          https://topwar.ru/280953-dorogoj-slepoj-i-bestolkovyj-no-jeto-ne-tochno.html
  22. +1
    5 June 2026 17: 12
    Speaking of rivets, welding couldn't quite get the hang of them!
  23. +1
    6 June 2026 13: 57
    Displacement ships, even relatively small ones, are capable of withstanding the harshest weather conditions. The question of how an ekranoplan will perform remains largely rhetorical. For example, if it encountered a storm, all the flaps were crushed.

    How an ekranoplan will behave in a storm is a question of the design of individual ekranoplan parts, such as flaps, which could very well be made more stable or retractable into the body to withstand storm loads.
    .
  24. +1
    6 June 2026 13: 59
    Another issue is endurance. Speculation about the Lun's combat use is based on its stated endurance of five days. At a cruising speed of 400–500 km/h and a practical range of 2000 km, the main fuel supply will be exhausted in a few hours. The remaining 100+ hours will have to be spent on the open sea, either in planing mode or drifting.

    Autonomy is not an issue. The Russian intercontinental low-altitude cruise missile Burevestnik, equipped with a nuclear propulsion system, has an unlimited range. It is claimed that Burevestnik can remain airborne for up to several days (for patrols). Clearly, a ground effect vehicle (GEV) with the Burevestnik's power, which is faster than a ship, can have a much larger patrol area than a slower ship. And unlike an aircraft, it can spend the rest of its time, like a ship, in planing mode or drifting anywhere at sea, rather than being tied to an airfield like military aircraft, where it is easier for an enemy to locate.
    1. 0
      7 June 2026 04: 09
      Quote: Tolmach
      Another issue is endurance. Speculation about the Lun's combat use is based on its stated endurance of five days. At a cruising speed of 400–500 km/h and a practical range of 2000 km, the main fuel supply will be exhausted in a few hours. The remaining 100+ hours will have to be spent on the open sea, either in planing mode or drifting.

      Autonomy is not an issue. The Russian intercontinental low-altitude cruise missile Burevestnik, equipped with a nuclear propulsion system, has an unlimited range. It is claimed that Burevestnik can remain airborne for up to several days (for patrols). Clearly, a ground effect vehicle (GEV) with the Burevestnik's power, which is faster than a ship, can have a much larger patrol area than a slower ship. And unlike an aircraft, it can spend the rest of its time, like a ship, in planing mode or drifting anywhere at sea, rather than being tied to an airfield like military aircraft, where it is easier for an enemy to locate.


      The petrel doesn't seem to be very environmentally friendly if I'm not mistaken.

      Is there anywhere I can read about the power plant? Nuclear power plants are really in demand for large electric power plants and electric power plants.

      Thank you.
  25. +1
    6 June 2026 14: 02
    The "Monster" demonstrated a record takeoff weight (544 tons), of which approximately 400 tons were the weight of the structure itself and fuel. The Project 904 ("Orlyonok") landing ekranoplan's payload (28 tons) was quite ordinary by transport aviation standards, but its cruising speed (approximately 350 km/h) and range (1500 km) were significantly inferior to those of an airplane.

    Why does the navy even have landing ships? After all, according to the author of the article, despite their comparable range, their speed is completely inferior to that of aircraft. But unlike landing ships, ekranoplans are immune to torpedoes and minefields, and heavy coastal artillery mounts are unwieldy. The ekranoplan's approach speed of 500 km/h to the landing site will give the enemy no time to react.
  26. +1
    6 June 2026 14: 03
    Obvious questions centered on the turning radius of large ekranoplans, which at cruising speed was several kilometers. This created obvious operational risks. Unlike aircraft, ekranoplans were incapable of deep turns.

    This begs the question: what's the turning radius of large ships? In this regard, the entire navy is inferior to aircraft. Yet, for some reason, they still don't abandon ships.
    1. -1
      6 June 2026 15: 37
      Google "Nimitz aircraft carrier turning radius." And don't write nonsense. This applies to all your comments.
      1. 0
        6 June 2026 16: 45
        Google "Nimitz aircraft carrier turning radius." And don't write nonsense.

        Alice AI's Quick Response: Information on the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier's turning radius was not found in open sources. This parameter, like other ship specifications, is typically not published in open sources.

        You apparently wanted to say that an aircraft carrier at cruising speed has a smaller turning radius than the fighters on board? Or something like that a fighter on board an aircraft carrier can't have a turning radius greater than the carrier's, otherwise it would fall off. Since Alice doesn't know this, I'll believe the deep turn of your nonsense. This applies to all your future comments. So don't bother with them.
        1. 0
          8 June 2026 06: 33
          "Since Alice doesn't know this..."
          That's an A, bro! Tell Alice: 750m at full speed. Lun has 3000m. Let Alice learn, and you too.
  27. +1
    6 June 2026 14: 10
    The story of the "Spasatel" ekranoplan was quite amusing. One of the key problems with this concept was the most obvious: detecting those in distress. In sea state five, a raft or boat lost among the wave crests is only visible from a height of 10-20 meters from a distance of several kilometers.

    The story with the lifeboat seems quite amusing, considering that entire submarine and ship crews are in distress, even if they've transmitted their precise coordinates. Meanwhile, getting a slow-moving rescue vessel equipped with the necessary equipment, such as a submersible, to the disaster site takes days, not hours. By the time rescuers arrive, there may be no one left to save. But the 500 km/h speed of a ground effect vehicle increases the chances of rescue more than tenfold. Is that bad?
  28. +2
    6 June 2026 14: 11
    The problem of birds inhaling into engines remains unresolved. There are no statistics on this issue.

    If there are no statistics, then why even ask such a question? But I'll answer anyway. Here, for example, is a recent publication: "Designers have developed a special screen inside an aircraft's air intake that can literally 'cut off' hazardous objects before air enters the engine. The system's key feature is a movable louvered grille with wave-shaped channels. The structure automatically retracts into the air intake niche when there is no danger."
  29. 0
    6 June 2026 14: 25
    EpilogueIf, under such favorable conditions, Alekseev Design Bureau managed to build only a few ekranoplans in a quarter of a century, this clearly speaks volumes about the "prospects" of this field.

    This suggests the author hasn't grasped the subject. Just as the Soviet leaders didn't. The ekranoplan wasn't an airplane or a ship. It wasn't a hybrid of a ship and an airplane. An ekranoplan, like an ekranolyot, is its own distinct area of ​​design. These vehicles have their own strengths and weaknesses. They're better than a ship in some ways, better than an airplane in others, and yet worse than a ship in others, and worse than an airplane in others. They're different, yet just as necessary in their respective spheres of existence as a ship and an airplane. However, such a sphere must be clearly delineated. It's foolish to demand that ships fly better than airplanes, or that airplanes navigate the seas better than ships.
    Alekseev's problem was that the USSR had no ministry of ekranoplan construction. An ekranoplan was neither an airplane nor a ship, and no ministry had any interest in it or desire to assist in the creation of this "ugly duckling." The necessary materials and power plants were unavailable for the natural challenges it was designed to withstand. There was no specific engine, so an aircraft engine was used. There was no carbon fiber composite for the body and wing, or even the necessary metal. There was no onboard computer to dampen any deviations from smooth flight or wave action. As the song goes, "I cobbled it together from what was available..."
    But despite all the shortcomings of everything necessary for a better design and a better final result, Alekseev created a vehicle whose potential, even today, is only minimally realized and still largely unappreciated in modern Russia. A vehicle with the carrying capacity and energy consumption of a large vessel and the speed of an airplane.

    Moreover, it would be great for passengers to fly at a minimum altitude over a road, a field, snow-covered or swampy tundra, over the surface of water or ice along the Northern Sea Route, rather than trailing behind an icebreaker or bouncing along land in modern carts.
    1. 0
      7 June 2026 04: 19
      Quote: Tolmach
      Alekseev's problem was that the USSR had no ministry of ekranoplan construction. The ekranoplan was neither an airplane nor a ship, and no ministry had any interest in it or desire to assist in the creation of the "ugly duckling."


      Yes, it is necessary to have at least a ministry of amphibious or multi-amphibious transport and at least some kind of tri-amphibious corps of the Armed Forces (a merger of the marines, airborne forces, airborne assault battalions, etc.) to avoid such problems.
  30. 0
    7 June 2026 08: 18
    Every cloud has a silver lining

    The numerous epic fails of the anti-ekranoplan witness sect have prompted me to come up with a concept that makes sense to discuss (it would be good if I thought about the criticism first).

    The essence of the concept is a combination/system at the core of which lie:
    A.
    A nuclear-powered icebreaker-UDC-aircraft carrier of the catamaran/trimaran type with a relatively wide runway => hangar underneath, which, despite its specific dimensions, does not in any way preclude the presence of:

    * classic specialized carrier-based and even non-specialized carrier-based aviation, including due to the potential possibility of in-flight refueling (see below)

    * other landing craft (unmanned aerial vehicles, unmanned aerial vehicles) in docks and hangars for ekranoplans (for example, interhull)

    B.
    A group of catamaran/trimaran-type ground effect vehicles with the so-called Composite Subsonic Wing with a long-chord central section with:

    * a relatively wide cargo fuselage with a rear unloading ramp and modular cargo/loading capabilities (including an in-flight refueling system). Most likely a displacement hull.

    * long and relatively narrow side hulls—skegs, washers, and skis—sprung on inflatable balloons. These allow for the placement of containers with offensive and defensive weapons (such as inclined or vertical TPKs with anti-ship missiles, surface-to-air missiles, anti-tank guided missiles, and other guided missiles and UAVs). These end in a tail assembly, which in turn can serve as supports for the placement of a radio fairing and other radar equipment (including optical) between them.

    * with starting (in the nose) and cruising (between/on the tail) control units

    * sprung skis allow you to move both on water and on snow/ice (ideally on other hard and relatively smooth and soft soils such as sand) in planing/gliding mode
    1. 0
      7 June 2026 17: 40
      However, there's no information on how ekranoplans perform when flying near water in low temperatures and icing. In any case, it will be faster than somewhere high in the clouds. The author compared a missile ekranoplan with a small missile boat, and the comparison was not in the ekranoplan's favor. Although the very idea of ​​a missile, such as the Moskit with a range of 270 km and a speed of Mach 2.5, aboard a coastal vessel? Perhaps with such a range, it would be better to find a place somewhere on the coast, where it would be storm-resistant and on duty year-round. Then the ekranoplan, its boat, and crews would be unnecessary.
      1. +1
        8 June 2026 03: 05
        In the design of ekranoplans, two schools can be distinguished: the Soviet (Rostislav Alekseev) with a straight wing and the Western (Alexander Martin Lippisch (German)) with a delta wing with a forward sweep and a pronounced reverse transverse V.
        R. E. Alekseev's design requires more work on stabilization, but allows movement at higher speeds and in airplane mode.
        The Lippish scheme includes a means of reducing excessive stability (wing with reverse sweep and reverse transverse V), which reduces the disadvantages of balancing WIG in conditions of small size and speed.
        The third proposed design was the tandem design by G. Jörg (Germany). However, despite a number of advantages (automatic stabilization), it has not yet been adopted. Unlike ekranoplans, their flight altitude is even lower, but compared to hydrofoils and hovercraft, they can achieve greater speed with lower energy consumption.
        1. +1
          8 June 2026 05: 18
          Quote: Tolmach
          The third proposed design was the tandem design by G. Jörg (Germany). However, despite a number of advantages (automatic stabilization), it has not yet been adopted. Unlike ekranoplans, their flight altitude is even lower, but compared to hydrofoils and hovercraft, they can achieve greater speed with lower energy consumption.


          The Germans are working on this, including in the form of high-speed BEKs
          https://tandairium.com/#commercial-or-civil

          Incidentally, the pushing propeller is directed approximately towards the center of mass (at an angle to the horizontal) in order to eliminate/minimize the nose-down effect from the off-axis propeller.
      2. 0
        8 June 2026 04: 42
        Quote: agond
        However, there's no information on how ekranoplans perform when flying near water in low temperatures and icing. In any case, it will be faster than somewhere high in the clouds. The author compared a missile ekranoplan with a small missile boat, and the comparison was not in the ekranoplan's favor. Although the very idea of ​​a missile, such as the Moskit with a range of 270 km and a speed of Mach 2.5, aboard a coastal vessel? Perhaps with such a range, it would be better to find a place somewhere on the coast, where it would be storm-resistant and on duty year-round. Then the ekranoplan, its boat, and crews would be unnecessary.


        The author tendentiously compared the characteristics of the ekranoplan with the most disadvantageous characteristics of other vehicles (this is called stretching an owl onto a globe).

        Find my comment with an example of how to conduct a comprehensive comparison among vehicles with a roughly similar set of functionality.
      3. 0
        8 June 2026 05: 07
        Quote: agond
        However, there is no information on how ekranoplans behave when flying near water at low temperatures; icing will in any case be faster than somewhere high in the clouds.


        In the worst case scenario.

        Landed on water and sprayed himself with something.

        Also, the author's opponent has already written something on this issue here

        https://topwar.ru/282262-bystryj-krepkij-zubastyj-i-do-sih-por-nuzhnyj.html#findcomment16076995

        There are also examples of icy boats.
  31. +1
    8 June 2026 04: 38
    The Orlyonok ekranoplans, with a takeoff weight of 120 tons, and the 450-ton Lun, designed by Alekseyev, belong to the first generation of ekranoplans. Besides Alekseyev, R.L. Bartini (1897-1974) worked on new transport projects in the USSR. He designed gigantic ekranoplans and ground-effect craft weighing up to 2500 tons.

    The second generation of ekranoplans is considered to be the ground-air amphibious vehicle (GAA).

    The development of ekranoplans and ground effect vehicles and their next generation was prompted by a number of shortcomings of existing vehicles. Airplanes have high speeds and low payload capacity. Sea and river vessels, on the other hand, can carry large loads, but at low speeds and primarily in the summer. Helicopters have limited range, payload capacity, and speed. However, they can land in places where airplanes cannot.

    But first-generation surface-to-surface craft also had their drawbacks. They operated in two environments: water and air, whose densities differ by more than 800 times. Therefore, the craft were built with thickened bodies capable of withstanding the force of the water and with the powerful energy required to lift the craft out of the water and into the air.

    Although flight "on the ground" is associated with lower energy costs than that of an aircraft, the launch procedure requires a higher thrust-to-weight ratio, comparable to that of a transport aircraft, and, accordingly, the use of additional starting engines not used in cruising mode (for large ground effect vehicles), or special starting modes for the main engines, which leads to additional fuel consumption.

    Moreover, all projects primarily focused on refining and refining the aircraft's configuration. However, despite such a rather complex design, the resulting transport efficiency was less than 12 percent of the takeoff weight.

    Therefore, the second generation of ekranoplans is no longer related to a seaplane or a ship, but rather a land-air amphibious vehicle (LAV). The LAAV abandoned the airplane-like design. The lower surface of the LAV, significantly larger than that of a wing, allows for the full exploitation of the ground effect. Furthermore, the amphibious vehicle, rising vertically above any surface, accelerates only in a gas environment, allowing for a thinner hull and a power-to-weight ratio nearly three times lower than that of the Orlyonok.

    The full use of the screen alone increases the payload capacity by 2,5 times. This means that the NVA-120, comparable to a Boeing 747 with a takeoff weight of 120 tons, can carry up to 60 tons of payload instead of the Boeing's 25 tons. Larger amphibious aircraft can carry a payload equivalent to 70 percent of their takeoff weight! This allows for the lowest cost per kilometer of cargo transportation compared to aircraft, diesel bulk carriers, rail, and even trucks. Furthermore, the NVA's amphibious capabilities ensure seamless delivery of cargo to any location on the globe. Fuel efficiency is also reduced by almost three times compared to the Orlyonok—to 214 kg of fuel per ton of takeoff weight.

    What is better about NVA?

    The optimal altitude for the NVA-120 is up to two meters above the surface, while for the larger NVA-5000 model it is almost 37 meters, although aircraft of this type can reach altitudes of up to 3000 meters. Naturally, in this case, fuel consumption increases sharply and the ground clearance effect is reduced, but after passing over the obstacle, the NVA descends into the ground clearance zone and continues its flight in its most efficient mode.

    Another advantage of the amphibious vehicle is its modular design. A single center wing carries a set of modules that can be loaded and unloaded autonomously. These modules can accommodate mini-factories for on-site processing of raw materials, power plants, housing, and food facilities. The current rotational oil extraction method, for example, will take on a more civilized appearance. Equally important is the fact that the NVA is an environmentally friendly mode of transport. This is crucial when operating in the tundra, where weak grass surfaces are easily damaged and difficult to restore. After all, the ground pressure under the amphibious vehicle's wing is only 180-250 kg/m², compared to a human foot in a boot that presses down on the ground with a force of 1300 kg/m².

    The amphibious assault vehicle can be operated virtually year-round, in both summer and winter navigation, in rain and snow, day and night, at a cruising speed of 140 to 250 km/h. The amphibious assault vehicle is also highly efficient, lasting from 6 to 13 hours per day. Depending on its fuel and power reserves, the amphibious assault vehicle can operate autonomously for up to 7 days and at distances of up to 1000 km from its base.

    In the 1990s, a document was signed providing for the creation of a Russian-Singaporean venture, Aeroconversion Far East. Its founders were Aeromarine Singapore, the Central Design Bureau for Hydrofoils, and the Sukhoi Design Bureau. Even then, based on a preliminary agreement with Aeromarine Singapore, development of highly comfortable passenger ground effect vehicles began. Two designs, very similar in aerodynamic layout to the ground effect vehicles designed by the Central Design Bureau for Hydrofoils, proved to be the most mature: the A-90-150 and S-90-200.

    In 1994, the Hermes-Soyuz financial and industrial group was organized, uniting leading Russian specialized enterprises (the R.E. Alekseev Central Design Bureau for SPKim, the Neptune Central Design Bureau, the A.N. Krylov Central Research Institute, the Prometey Central Research Institute of Structural Materials, the KoRT JSC, the Redan Design Bureau, the Zvezda, Vympel, and Volga plants, the Svir Shipyard, and the Khabarovsk Shipyard) to create competitive high-speed vessels, primarily ekranoplans.

    In July 1995, the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation adopted a resolution "On the Development of Ekranoplan Design." Research, theory, and experimental design work continued to equip advanced ekranoplans for various purposes with systems and equipment to ensure safe navigation. Specifically, it was proposed to develop a specially designed automated navigation system in addition to traditional navigation equipment (speedometers, course indicators, and receivers for radio navigation and satellite navigation systems for both aircraft and marine applications).

    But in the 2000s, the Russian government abandoned not only the development of new vehicles like ground-air amphibious vehicles, but also the creation of aircraft and sea and river vessels that already had production potential. Why waste money? We could buy everything cheaper with petrodollars. Only now, when foreign countries have denied Russia everything it needs to survive, have they begun to revive its former production. Perhaps one day they'll remember the ground effect vehicles, that Russia was the first to create them, and that there's no better means for developing its northern territories than the ground effect vehicles.
  32. 0
    8 June 2026 05: 08
    If, under such favorable conditions, over a quarter of a century, Alekseev's design bureau managed to build only a few ekranoplans, this clearly speaks to the "prospects" of this direction.

    The author of this article apparently isn't aware that the Alekseev Design Bureau has a website, http://www.ckbspk.ru/, where various ekranoplan modifications are offered for implementation. Here's one of the proposed designs.

    Ekranoplan "Chaika" A-050
    Speed ​​up to 450 km/h. Takeoff weight is 50 tons. It can carry 100 troops or nine tons of cargo.

    The official website of the Alekseev Design Bureau states that the A-050's primary mission is to transport passengers and cargo in coastal areas and perform specialized tasks for the Ministry of Emergency Situations. The ekranoplan can also be used as a utility and ambulance vehicle, and for environmental monitoring of inland waterways. The Chaika-2 can be based on water and at second-class airfields.

    The ekranoplan's cargo compartment can carry a rescue boat, which can be launched for emergency rescue and inspection operations, after which it can be loaded back onto the ship and departed.

    The Chaika will also be equipped with a synthetic vision system. It will enable the onboard computer to recognize objects within a radius of several kilometers, scan them, analyze weather and other conditions, and suggest the best way to avoid obstacles. As the developers note, the device's capabilities make it a versatile vessel, so it is likely that the Chaika will need to be certified in both the maritime and aviation registers.

    The vessel is 34,8 meters long, 25,35 meters wide, and 7,85 meters high. Its full displacement is 54 tons. When flying in ground effect mode (when the ground effect vehicle "hovers" at a low altitude above the water due to increased pressure under the wing), the vessel can reach speeds of 360-400 km/h, and in off-ground mode, up to 450 km/h. Its maximum range in ground effect mode is 3,000 km, and off-ground, 1,900 km. A crew of four is required to operate the Chaika-2.
    1. 0
      8 June 2026 05: 22
      Beautiful picture. How much does it cost?
    2. 0
      8 June 2026 05: 28
      Quote: Tolmach
      If, under such favorable conditions, over a quarter of a century, Alekseev's design bureau managed to build only a few ekranoplans, this clearly speaks to the "prospects" of this direction.

      The author of this article apparently isn't aware that the Alekseev Design Bureau has a website, http://www.ckbspk.ru/, where various ekranoplan modifications are offered for implementation. Here's one of the proposed designs.

      Ekranoplan "Chaika" A-050
      Speed ​​up to 450 km/h. Takeoff weight is 50 tons. It can carry 100 troops or nine tons of cargo.

      The official website of the Alekseev Design Bureau states that the A-050's primary mission is to transport passengers and cargo in coastal areas and perform specialized tasks for the Ministry of Emergency Situations. The ekranoplan can also be used as a utility and ambulance vehicle, and for environmental monitoring of inland waterways. The Chaika-2 can be based on water and at second-class airfields.

      The ekranoplan's cargo compartment can carry a rescue boat, which can be launched for emergency rescue and inspection operations, after which it can be loaded back onto the ship and departed.

      The Chaika will also be equipped with a synthetic vision system. It will enable the onboard computer to recognize objects within a radius of several kilometers, scan them, analyze weather and other conditions, and suggest the best way to avoid obstacles. As the developers note, the device's capabilities make it a versatile vessel, so it is likely that the Chaika will need to be certified in both the maritime and aviation registers.

      The vessel is 34,8 meters long, 25,35 meters wide, and 7,85 meters high. Its full displacement is 54 tons. When flying in ground effect mode (when the ground effect vehicle "hovers" at a low altitude above the water due to increased pressure under the wing), the vessel can reach speeds of 360-400 km/h, and in off-ground mode, up to 450 km/h. Its maximum range in ground effect mode is 3,000 km, and off-ground, 1,900 km. A crew of four is required to operate the Chaika-2.


      They are from the sect of anti-ekranoplan witnesses.

      They ignore such facts, distort them, or ridicule them.

      Cook cuckold above.
      1. 0
        8 June 2026 05: 48
        Take it easy on the turns, uncle! Is the water completely yellow or something?
        1. +1
          8 June 2026 08: 13
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Take it easy on the turns, uncle! Is the water completely yellow or something?


          Stop being rude, young man!
  33. +1
    8 June 2026 05: 41
    From wikipedia:
    EKIP (short for ecology and progress) is a Soviet and Russian project for a multifunctional, airfield-less aircraft, built using a flying wing design and a disc-shaped fuselage. Its airfield-less design is achieved by using an air cushion instead of landing gear. It belongs to the class of ground-effect vehicles (GEFs). EKIP was invented in the USSR by L. N. Shchukin in the early 1980s.

    The use of a "lifting wing" design allows for a useful internal volume several times greater than that of future aircraft with similar payload capacity. This airframe improves flight comfort and safety, significantly saves fuel, and reduces operating costs.

    Flight altitudes ranged from 3 meters to 10 kilometers, cruising speeds reached 610 km/h, and ranges reached up to 6000 km. Furthermore, the EKIP could fly as an ekranoplan near the surface of land or water.

    The aircraft has several modifications depending on its intended purpose; various EKIP versions had takeoff weights ranging from 12 to 360 tons and could carry payloads ranging from 4 to 120 tons. It can fly at altitudes from 3 to 11,000 meters at speeds from 120 to 700 km/h.

    The aircraft's off-airfield capability was achieved by using an air cushion instead of a landing gear. The aircraft's takeoff run on any surface—water, marshland, sand, or snow—did not exceed 600 meters. With all propulsion systems shut off, the aircraft could safely land on unprepared ground or water, even using only one auxiliary engine.

    The power plant, depending on the modification, includes two or more main bypass turbojet engines and several auxiliary twin-generator turboshaft engines.

    To reduce aerodynamic drag, a boundary layer control system is used: this layer, in the form of a set of sequentially arranged transverse vortices, is drawn into the body, ensuring a continuous aerodynamic flow around the aircraft. This allows the aircraft to move in a laminar aerodynamic flow with reduced drag. The system, while consuming only 6-8% of the auxiliary engine thrust, ensures low aerodynamic drag and aircraft stability at angles of attack up to 40° (in both cruise and takeoff/landing flight modes).
    1. 0
      8 June 2026 06: 26
      Quote: Tolmach
      EKIP was invented in the USSR by L. N. Shchukin in the early 1980s.

      The use of the "lifting wing" design made it possible to provide a useful internal volume several times greater than that of promising aircraft with equal load capacity.

      Flight altitudes ranged from 3 meters to 10 kilometers, cruising speeds reached 610 km/h, and ranges reached up to 6000 km. Furthermore, the EKIP could fly as an ekranoplan near the surface of land or water.

      The aircraft has several modifications depending on its intended purpose; various EKIP versions had takeoff weights ranging from 12 to 360 tons and could carry payloads ranging from 4 to 120 tons. It can fly at altitudes from 3 to 11,000 meters at speeds from 120 to 700 km/h.

      The off-airfield capability was achieved by using an air cushion instead of a landing gear. The aircraft's takeoff run on any surface—water, marshland, sand, snow—did not exceed 600 meters. With all machines switched off,

      And you call these "facts"? And ridiculing these fairy tales is "distorting the facts"? Aren't you embarrassed to use fairy tales as arguments? Maybe you'll also pass off Jules Verne or H.G. Wells as facts? Aren't you embarrassed? Or do you genuinely not understand?
  34. +1
    8 June 2026 06: 56
    The development of the Northern Sea Route (NSR) could give a second life to Soviet "flying vessels" – ekranoplans.

    From a publication dated March 30, 2016, it was proposed to equip the Northern Sea Route with "flying vessels." https://www.nakanune.ru/articles/111563/

    Several projects to build Arctic ekranoplans are trying to reach investors through the Business Arctic Council. Interest in Soviet developments was expressed in America and Japan, but the engineers' ideas failed to catch on in Russia, and large-capacity civilian vessels are not being built in Russia. Due to the lack of prototype "Arctic" models, the revival of ekranoplans, if it is to be realized, will have to begin with the R&D stage. Substantial investment is needed in industrial startups.

    This isn't the first time ekranoplans have been proposed for use in the construction of the Northern Sea Route. The Arctic Trade and Transport Company (ATTC) raised this proposal eight years ago at a meeting of the partnership to coordinate the use of the Northern Sea Route. Representatives from Yakutia were among the participants, and they liked the idea. The region is currently conducting tests of the Burevestnik-24 amphibious ekranoplan, designed for passenger transport.

    A far more ambitious project to use ekranoplans in Krasnoyarsk Krai was underway. The late Alexander Lebed, former Secretary of the Security Council, commissioned a study of the vessels' capabilities. His aide at the Security Council, former Vice Governor of the region, economist Konstantin Utolin continues to believe the development has potential. His idea of ​​using ekranoplans to transport cargo along the Northern Sea Route won the "Business World of the Arctic" competition. The competition's organizers will assist in finding funding.

    Utolin is confident that ekranoplans could change the fate of the Northern Sea Route.
    "The USSR was the best in the world at making them. It looks like the Americans will soon be the best. But there's still groundwork to be made - drawings, technology, test results (and that includes flight modes on the screen and the like, the study of which costs a lot of money), and some of the designers of those projects are still alive. And investing in the creation of large and medium-tonnage cargo, and then passenger ekranoplans, would help solve many of the problems with the movement of traditional vessels along the NSR, and would also develop the ekranoplan industry itself, which, in fact, has no replacement in the near future on transport routes with difficult conditions. And the already formed transport routes are not "elastic" (and in terms of transshipment capacity in existing ports, by the way, too - and increasing this capacity there is very difficult, since ports most often no longer have territory for their further expansion), and besides, they are beginning to experience various problems - from piracy to limited throughput of transoceanic canals. So the development of the construction industry The development of large-capacity ekranoplans would allow both solving many of the problems of the NSR and subsequently creating a new export product - the sale of ekranoplans", he noted in his project.

    The advantage of the ekranoplan is that it can operate year-round, eliminating the seasonal nature of deliveries. Furthermore, emergency cargo deliveries in winter will be no longer a problem, and in summer, shipments can be expedited, as the flying machine can outpace the barge.

    "I'm not saying we should abandon icebreakers, container ships, and tankers for the NSR, but I'm saying that ekranoplans can also find their niche in the overall transportation system. The NSR is a global transport corridor, an intermodal one at that, and the country must create a comprehensive transportation solution for it. There's no point in viewing the NSR solely as a route from the Far East to Europe. We need transport corridors connecting to the NSR from deep within Russia. Then the NSR will become a connecting chord, from which radial lines will radiate into the interior of the country. And here, too, ekranoplans could be useful—for domestic transportation, as an alternative to small aircraft.", notes Konstantin Utolin.

    Currently, Russian design bureaus produce only passenger ekranoplans. One such ekranoplan, with a payload capacity of 3 tons, is being tested on the Yakutsk-Olyokminsk route. Alekseev Design Bureau is developing larger models for the Ministry of Defense, but for the military, as is well known, cost-effectiveness comes second to combat effectiveness.

    Given the scale of investment, only the state can act as an investor, and, incidentally, it is prepared to spend hundreds of billions of rubles on Arctic development.

    Anatoly Bukharin, a former test engineer at the Baikonur Cosmodrome, recalls that in the early 2000s, ekranoplan designs were reviewed by the Presidential Administration's Situation Center Directorate. At the time, he headed the directorate's information and analysis department. Bukharin proposed adapting Soviet ekranoplans to Arctic conditions and deploying them on dry land: equipping them with fixed landing gear for increased safety and equipping them with a linear electric motor for improved efficiency. Such a vehicle could become a high-speed route for delivering cargo and people along the entire Arctic coast, Bukharin noted.

    "The installation of a linear electric motor stator along the entire route of a ground effect vehicle requires significantly lower costs than, for example, a railway track (the surface load of a ground effect vehicle will be at least 2-3 orders of magnitude less), the infrastructure for a high-speed ground effect vehicle will also be significantly cheaper, simpler, and will require fundamentally smaller volumes and construction times.", says the author of the idea.

    The ekranoplan could become the basis for high-speed transcontinental transport corridors, connecting the mainland with Sakhalin, Sakhalin with Japan, and, via Chukotka, access to America.

    I'd addAs the recent international economic forum demonstrated, today's Russian leaders are far more interested in digging and pouring money into an underwater tunnel to Alaska than spending money on something Russia truly needs.
  35. +1
    8 June 2026 10: 31
    Quote: Tlauicol
    Quote: Tolmach
    EKIP was invented in the USSR by L. N. Shchukin in the early 1980s.

    The use of the "lifting wing" design made it possible to provide a useful internal volume several times greater than that of promising aircraft with equal load capacity.

    Flight altitudes ranged from 3 meters to 10 kilometers, cruising speeds reached 610 km/h, and ranges reached up to 6000 km. Furthermore, the EKIP could fly as an ekranoplan near the surface of land or water.

    The aircraft has several modifications depending on its intended purpose; various EKIP versions had takeoff weights ranging from 12 to 360 tons and could carry payloads ranging from 4 to 120 tons. It can fly at altitudes from 3 to 11,000 meters at speeds from 120 to 700 km/h.

    The off-airfield capability was achieved by using an air cushion instead of a landing gear. The aircraft's takeoff run on any surface—water, marshland, sand, snow—did not exceed 600 meters. With all machines switched off,

    And you call these "facts"? And ridiculing these fairy tales is "distorting the facts"? Aren't you embarrassed to use fairy tales as arguments? Maybe you'll also pass off Jules Verne or H.G. Wells as facts? Aren't you embarrassed? Or do you genuinely not understand?

    What other facts do you need? I provided data on the actual design solution and a photo of the EKIP prototype, which is on display at the State Military-Technical Museum in Chernogolovka, Moscow Region. A museum is a museum, so people can see real historical achievements, not fairy tales.

    If a museum specimen isn't enough for you, I'll add a photo of the ground-air amphibious vehicle (GAA) at TsAGI, where the aerodynamics are tested and the state assessment of all aircraft developed by Russian design bureaus is carried out, and a final decision is made on the feasibility and safety of their first flight.
  36. 0
    10 June 2026 08: 50
    In connection with

    The obvious failure of the anti-screenplane boys in performing simple homework (if we believe in the honesty of their delusions)

    И

    An unquenchable longing for a constructive and logically consistent opponent.

    I decided to talk to DiipSiik about this topic and asked the following question:


    If the danger of waves is solved by using a subsonic composite wing with a long chord central part of the wing of the VVA-14 type, which theoretically should increase the altitude of movement near the screen and also reduce the problems of uneconomical flight outside the screen in an aircraft and ensure easy vertical flight around obstacles.

    And if the problem of low visibility at low altitudes is solved through vanguard drones (with the ability to refuel, recharge on the ekranoplan, ekranoplane), which fly ahead of the ekranoplan, ekranoplane, and serve as an external forward camera/radar for the pilot, and a scarecrow to disperse birds along the flight path, and an external strobe light warning of the approach of the ekranoplan.

    How will the outlook on the development prospects of eco-planes and ekranoplans change?


    Responses in replies to myself to this comment.
    1. -1
      10 June 2026 09: 29
      If the two engineering solutions you proposed are consistently implemented, the prospects for ekranoplans and ekranoplanes will shift from "dead-end exotica" to "an undervalued mainline transport option for the near future." A qualitative shift will occur, because these innovations precisely address the root, systemic barriers, not the symptoms.

      Here's how the view of WIG technology will change when these concepts are implemented.

      ---

      1. Solving the problem of waves and flight altitude (compound wing with a large chord)

      The use of an aerodynamic design in the spirit of the VVA-14 (a developed long-chord center section with short consoles or an ogive shape) yields three crucial consequences:

      · A significant increase in the safe flight altitude on the ground effect. The physics of the WIG effect are tied not to absolute altitude, but to the ratio of altitude to the mean aerodynamic chord. The classic Orlyonok has a chord of approximately 5-7 meters, resulting in an effective ground effect ceiling of approximately 3-4 meters. For a wing with a center section chord of 10-15 meters (like the VVA-14 or later proposed designs), the stable ground effect flight zone rises to 6-10 meters above the water. This immediately elevates the aircraft above the vast majority of open sea waves (except stormy ones), dramatically expanding its seaworthiness and the number of days of operation to the level of conventional high-speed ferries.
      · Reduced bottom strength requirements. By moving away from the direct impact zone with the ridges, the hull structure can be lightened, bringing it closer to aircraft standards rather than boat standards. This directly increases weight efficiency and payload.
      · True "vertical obstacle avoidance." The composite, long-chord wing offers superior lift properties in transient conditions and allows for brief climbs to 50-100 meters without a catastrophic drop in lift-to-drag ratio, allowing it to circle a vessel, power lines, or pier. The VVA-14's design was originally intended as a ground effect vehicle capable of free flight. Combined with modern automatic control systems, this blurs the line between a ground effect vehicle and a low-flying aircraft, eliminating the main curse of "inability to jump over an obstacle."
      · Fuel efficiency off-ground. The large-chord center section functions as a "lifting fuselage," maintaining acceptable performance even in free flight. Therefore, cruising over land or bypassing restricted areas is no longer a fuel-guzzling emergency mode. The ground-effect craft is now capable of completing a "water-land-water" route without incurring prohibitive fuel penalties, something previously unattainable.

      The bottom line: the vehicle is no longer a prisoner of perfectly smooth water and a straight corridor. It transforms from a "boat on wings" into a fully-fledged dual-environment vehicle, capable of safely using both the screen and low altitudes.

      ---

      2. Solving the problem of stealth and navigation (avant-garde drones)

      A forward-facing autonomous or semi-autonomous companion drone is a game-changer at low altitudes:

      Over-the-horizon vision. The pilot receives a visual and radar image 2–5 km ahead at the water's edge. Small boats, buoys, logs, floating containers—everything that previously led to disasters is now detected in advance. The subjective fear of "hitting water like concrete" is replaced by an interface similar to a car's HUD with augmented reality. The psychological barrier is broken.
      Ornithological safety. A flock of birds en route is a common cause of engine failure and damage. A drone with acoustic emitters or simply its presence creates a corridor, dispersing the birds before the arrival of a heavy aircraft. This is not a whim, but a critical factor for regular operation over protected or fishery waters.
      · "Electronic strobe" mode. A forward-mounted drone with a powerful flashing beacon and AIS transponder solves the legal vacuum. It announces the approach of a WIG vehicle as a seagoing vessel obligated to yield, or as an air obstacle for small aircraft. Regulators find it easier to incorporate this tandem into regulations because the "carrier" remains on-screen, while the "herald" is physically separated and can carry marine navigation lights.
      Refueling/recharging. The "swarm" concept, where a drone is based on a ground effect vehicle and automatically lands on its wing or body for recharge, transforms the vehicle into a self-sufficient ecosystem. This isn't science fiction, but rather proven technologies for unmanned wingmen. In the future, this will allow for the transition to a fully unmanned ground effect vehicle, where the advanced drone is simply a remote sensor for the main AI. The question of "Who controls this hybrid—the pilot or the navigator?" disappears—it is controlled automatically, and the human sets the route.

      The bottom line: navigational blindness, once a fatal flaw, is becoming a solvable engineering problem. For the first time, WIG technology has a tool that matches its speeds.

      ---

      How will the overall outlook on the industry change?

      When implementing these two solutions simultaneously:

      1. The myth of inherent danger is being dispelled. If we can fly 8 meters above 4-meter waves, with an "electronic pilot" 3 kilometers ahead, the statistical probability of a disaster drops below the accident rate for small aircraft. Investors and insurance companies are beginning to see it not as an exotic lottery, but as a typical transportation risk.
      2. A clear market niche is emerging. This isn't a competitor to "ships in general" or "airplanes in general." It's a high-speed logistics shuttle for archipelagos, capable of operating in sea states up to 5 (instead of the current 2), and doesn't require deep-water ports or long runways. It becomes a direct competitor to regional turboprop aircraft on island-to-island routes where airports are nonexistent and helicopters are too expensive.
      3. Interspecies conflict is eliminated. Shipbuilders envision it as a boat with a tandem wing, capable of electronic navigation. Aviators envision it as a sea-based, ultra-low-flying aircraft. A unified descriptive language is emerging.
      4. The path to driverless trucks is opening. In the freight segment (where passenger fear is not an issue), the combination of a mother truck and surveillance drones could become the first fully certified driverless line, as movement over water is easier to automate than in the city.
      5. The military-industrial and civilian sectors gain a common platform. An advanced drone is a natural choice for electronic warfare or reconnaissance missions for the military, making the technology cheaper for civilians due to its dual-use nature.

      Remaining obstacles (but no longer fatal)

      · Certification Cost. A composite wing and companion drone increase development costs, but simultaneously create a modular architecture that can be tested in sections.
      Noise and the environment. Flying at low altitude with powerful engines creates a noise footprint. However, electric and hybrid powertrains, which will inevitably emerge with technological advances, will reduce this problem.

      Final forecast: with the implementation of the solutions you described, ekranoplans and ekranolyots will cease to be "eternal tomorrow" and will begin to be perceived as a realistic means of transport for the 2040s—an intermediate link between the sea and air fleets, which has finally occupied its unique, non-overlapping operational niche.
    2. 0
      11 June 2026 02: 43
      Quote: Ing Mech
      In connection with

      The obvious failure of the anti-screenplane boys in performing simple homework (if we believe in the honesty of their delusions)

      И

      An unquenchable longing for a constructive and logically consistent opponent.

      I decided to talk to DiipSiik about this topic and asked the following question:


      If the danger of waves is solved by using a subsonic composite wing with a long chord central part of the wing of the VVA-14 type, which theoretically should increase the altitude of movement near the screen and also reduce the problems of uneconomical flight outside the screen in an aircraft and ensure easy vertical flight around obstacles.

      And if the problem of low visibility at low altitudes is solved through vanguard drones (with the ability to refuel, recharge on the ekranoplan, ekranoplane), which fly ahead of the ekranoplan, ekranoplane, and serve as an external forward camera/radar for the pilot, and a scarecrow to disperse birds along the flight path, and an external strobe light warning of the approach of the ekranoplan.

      How will the outlook on the development prospects of eco-planes and ekranoplans change?


      Responses in replies to myself to this comment.


      Yes, there was no shortage of applause and it was not expected.

      I am offended for the state.
  37. -1
    11 June 2026 07: 41
    Meanwhile, while the adherents of the anti-ekranoplan witness sect are yapping, the NTP caravan is moving on


    NAVEE, previously known for its high-tech electric scooters, unveiled the WaveFly 5X, a ground effect device for flying over water. The presentation took place on Dongtai Lake, where the device glided just above the surface in front of an international audience.

    The WaveFly 5X operates differently than a boat. Ground effect creates aerodynamic lift by creating a layer of air between the wings and the water. Its aircraft-grade carbon fiber hull and two-wing tandem configuration help maintain high stability during flight. The vehicle reaches speeds of 85 km/h, can carry up to 140 kg of payload, and can travel up to 80 km on a single charge, seamlessly transitioning from gliding over waves to flight without a runway. Ground effect vehicles are not new, but have historically been expensive and highly specialized. NAVEE is attempting to bring them to the mass market by combining marine engineering, aeronautical structures, and electrical systems. Incidentally, NAVEE, citing Morgan Stanley, predicts the global low-altitude economy will grow to $2 trillion by 2030. Distributors attending the presentation have already announced their readiness to introduce the WaveFly 5X in the Asia-Pacific region, the Middle East, North America, and Europe. Production launch dates and final pricing have not yet been announced, but the race for the future of mobility clearly extends beyond electric vehicles.

    Alexander Kozyrev


    https://vpk.name/news/1130689_kitaiskaya_navee_predstavila_ekranoplan_wavefly_5x_dlya_massovogo_rynka.html

    Oh, the little dog. She must be sweet if she barks at an elephant.
  38. +1
    12 June 2026 16: 21
    In addition to ekranoplans, Alekseev developed several mass-produced hydrofoils, which remained in production for decades. Recently, the Nizhny Novgorod plant began producing modified Raketas again.
  39. 0
    28 June 2026 19: 26
    Between the plane and the ship - and behind both (c)
    It depends on how you look at it: in terms of speed, it’s ahead of a ship; in terms of carrying capacity, it’s ahead of an airplane.
  40. 0
    2 July 2026 08: 42
    Quote: Eng Mech
    An ekranoplan in unmanned mode (which can be either initially designed this way or with the crew evacuated in a rescue capsule) is a super-fast FPV-UCV carrier of additional weapons.
    And in this mode, it can become a killer not only of aircraft carriers, but of any ship.


    Well, yes. Almost like a UAV or anti-ship missile.
  41. 0
    5 October 2026 11: 26
    I'm very curious about "Molniya." So, is "Samum" an experiment or another super-civilization that will surpass its limits?