Military Review

The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine has suspended funding for the production of An-70 until the resolution of controversial issues with the state enterprise "Antonov"

39

The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine suspended funding for the mass production of An-70 until the resolution of controversial issues with the State Enterprise Antonov. This was reported by a source in the Ministry of Defense, who wished to remain unknown.


According to him, the cause of the conflict lies in the misuse of the Antonov State Enterprise by means of the Ministry of Defense. “Three years ago, the Ministry of Defense transferred SE Antonov over 100 million UAH. for mass production of the first two An-70 aircraft, however, these funds were spent on re-equipment of production and purchase of equipment for the Antonov serial production plant, but not directly on the production of aircraft. The arguments that the rigging and equipment are used to produce the An-70 aircraft does not hold water, since the money was earmarked specifically for the manufacture of specific aircraft. Because of this, the Ministry of Defense has suspended funding for the project until the conflict is resolved, ”said the source.

Deputy Minister of Defense - Chief of Staff Vladimir Mozharovsky indirectly confirmed this information, stating that the MoD jointly SE Antonov focused on testing the new aircraft, and the issue of serial production and its financing is subject to negotiation. “We are not abandoning the An-70 project, the Ukrainian army needs it, there are certain issues, they are being discussed, but in general the project is promising,” said V. Mozharovsky. At the same time, he found it difficult to answer the question about the amount of funding for the project in 2013 from the budget of the Ministry of Defense and the possible purchase volumes of these aircraft. “We will proceed from the amount of funding allocated for the purchase of new weapons, but so far these volumes have not been determined,” he noted.

For reference.

In 2012, according to the Defense Ministry's data on the implementation of the general state program for the creation of the An-70 military transport aircraft under the MO line, it was planned to allocate 306,8 million UAH, actually financed by 236,088 million UAH.
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39 comments
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  1. fortunophile
    fortunophile 21 May 2013 10: 18 New
    +3
    It's time to admit that Ukraine has no money for the army. They constantly buy "Oplots", but after the Parade the tanks go to the plant, because the army has no money, then buy Ana? Vaughn PL was repaired and all the successes probably in recent years.
    By the way, who knows how much Russia has invested in Antonov?
    Here is a note from December 2012
    Today in Kiev the fuselage of the first serial An-70 was removed from the slipway. For 20 years, the military of many countries have said that they need just such a machine. But it was still not possible to establish its production in any way.


    As if reluctantly, the An-70 fuselage rolls out of the slipway onto an open area. The factory workers have undisguised joy - this plane gave them work and a long-awaited salary. The Prime Minister of Ukraine also came to see the plane. After inspecting the plant, Mykola Azarov again promises money - for modern machines and expensive equipment, the TSN story says.
    "The government will support not only this development, but also the aircraft industry as a whole in the country. For us, this is a priority industry," Azarov promised.

    The car was seriously modernized - they introduced digital control, reduced engine noise and reduced aircraft weight. And made it more convenient for the military.

    Sergei Bychkov, chief engineer of the Antonov State Enterprise, said: "Today the plane can land and carry 90% of all military equipment in service with the former USSR - even tanks!"

    For twenty years they could not begin construction, and now they are fighting for the first plane. The military departments of Ukraine and Russia are measured by money - who will be the first to fly the An-70.
    Dmitry Kiva, General Designer of Antonov State Enterprise, said: "Indeed, this board is the property of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, but the Ministry of Defense of Russia wants to buy it. And the decision has not been made yet. "

    It is precisely these - unassuming, reliable and economical aircraft that only the military of Russia and Ukraine need dozens of. Dmitry Kiva, General Designer of Antonov State Enterprise, assures that the tests are practically over. An-70 has already carried out 650 test flights, there are still 60 left. And in order to launch this project into production, 300 million hryvnias are needed.

    "You know, airplanes, like people, each has its own destiny. For example, the An-70 was born in the early 90s. It took 20 years for the first serial aircraft to appear. But perhaps fate will finally smile on this machine, and in a few years they will be tuned with ten ", - hopes
    1. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 21 May 2013 10: 22 New
      38
      The European Union presses on Ukraine, it (Europe) does not need a strong and developed Ukraine ... plans for the future are still to reduce the army (now 184 thousand people). The sad thing is that the Ukrainian authorities are swindlers and thieves. In general, it's a pity the brotherly people ...
      1. patline
        patline 21 May 2013 10: 29 New
        24
        The sad thing is that the Ukrainian authorities are swindlers and thieves. In general, it's a pity the brotherly people ...

        These are not fraternal people, this is what we are, together with the Belarusians.
      2. Kars
        Kars 21 May 2013 10: 30 New
        +6
        ShturmKGB
        and ... plans for the future are still a strong reduction in the army (now 184 thousand people)

        And this is against the background of the buildup of military power of the EU countries, a huge increase in military budgets and the purchase of hundreds of tanks and aircraft

        On the topic - the dispute of business entities, if the money was spent not as planned for what else to count.
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 21 May 2013 10: 45 New
          +7
          Quote: Kars
          And this is against the background of the buildup of military power of the EU countries


          not quite so, or rather, not at all so, out of 31 EU and NATO countries, 2012 countries cut military spending in 18. Spanish and Dutch "Leopards 2013" were offered at the SITDEF-2 exhibition in Peru

          http://topwar.ru/26825-poslednie-dannye-sipri-pered-vypuskom-ezhegodnika-voennye




          -rashody-stran.html
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 21 May 2013 10: 54 New
            +3
            Quote: seller trucks
            not quite so, or rather, not at all like that from 31 countries, the EU and NATO reduced 2012 countries in 18.

            Yes, Kars knows he was just kidding.
          2. Akim
            Akim 21 May 2013 11: 06 New
            +9
            Quote: seller trucks
            31 EU and NATO countries cut military spending in 2012 18 countries


            I do not care how the military to reduce the defense of Spain or the Netherlands. But the fact that Poland and Turkey are actively rearming is worth considering.
            1. Kars
              Kars 21 May 2013 11: 20 New
              +6
              Quote: Akim
              But the fact that Poland and Turkey are actively rearming is worth considering.

              So what are their neighbors - Russia, which is building up its military potential, and Syria, Iraq, the centers of instability. Once their military spending is more or less understood, then they do not go beyond sufficient. At the same time, Poland does not increase its strength.
              1. Phantom Revolution
                Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 11: 38 New
                +4
                Quote: Kars
                what neighbors do they have - Russia, which is building up its military potential,

                They are not quite right here, do not forget how actively the Tatars in Crimea claim their right to this land, and also read the news "Turkey stood up for the rights of the Crimean Tatars." Then you will think about what all this rearmament is for.
                1. seller trucks
                  seller trucks 21 May 2013 12: 00 New
                  +6
                  Crimea, the Turks can not see how their own ears, Sevastopol Russia will not give up the love of love.
                  1. d.gksueyjd
                    d.gksueyjd 21 May 2013 12: 14 New
                    +8
                    Unfortunately, everything goes to the fact that the Crimea will go to the Crimean Tatars. Then another "Kosovo" and Russia and Ukraine will lose it. In an effort to strangle the Russians in Crimea at any cost, the Ukrainian government uses the nationalist Tatars.
                    1. seller trucks
                      seller trucks 21 May 2013 12: 40 New
                      +5
                      Well, the question is not so acute, although of course, there is a separatist "Mezhelis" financed by the Turks, they say that even a certain amount of weapons has been accumulated, but the balance of forces is not in favor of the Tatars, approximately 12% / 88%. and you are right, the Crimean Kypchaks were allowed into the Crimea to confront the Russian-speaking population.
                  2. Phantom Revolution
                    Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 12: 23 New
                    +3
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    Crimea, the Turks can not see how their own ears, Sevastopol Russia will not give up the love of love.

                    He will not surrender, but most likely he will take it back. And about Turkey, this is only one of many claims, like Romania, which, although they got a piece, were satisfied with 80% and others. Everyone wants to pinch off a piece.
                    1. seller trucks
                      seller trucks 21 May 2013 13: 43 New
                      +1
                      I may, of course, be mistaken, but perhaps this can be a serious territorial claim with the possible entry of Ukraine into NATO.
                2. Kars
                  Kars 21 May 2013 15: 28 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Phantom Revolution
                  news "Turkey stood up for the rights of the Crimean Tatars".

                  Where is it? Turkey is watching a multi-station and is fighting with the Kurds, Cyprus is sharing, and it is planning to join Syria, and here they have gathered the Crimean Tatars. Well done, well done.
                  Quote: Phantom Revolution
                  And then you’ll think about why this is all rearmament.

                  Here’s how we’ll begin to order airborne transfer means.
                  1. Phantom Revolution
                    Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 17: 28 New
                    0
                    Quote: Kars
                    Where is it? Turkey is watching a multi-station and is fighting with the Kurds, Cyprus is sharing, and it is planning to join Syria, and here they have gathered the Crimean Tatars. Well done, well done.

                    "Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu says that the Turkish side is in favor of preserving ethnic peace in Crimea and will provide assistance to the Crimean Tatar people.

                    The diplomat assured that Turkey will continue to provide assistance to the Crimean Tatar people, as it has been doing for over 10 years. "

                    Here is another article to read. http://www.yerkramas.org/2013/05/19/krymskij-vektor-turcii/ The world is not so simple. The example of Syria can be taken into account.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 21 May 2013 17: 47 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Phantom Revolution
                      that the Turkish side is in favor of preserving the ethnic peace in Crimea and will provide assistance to the Crimean Tatar people.

                      It’s incomprehensible that the ethnic world is supposedly a war? Help — let them send humanitarian aid who is against it.
                      Quote: Phantom Revolution
                      The diplomat assured that Turkey will continue to provide assistance to the Crimean Tatar people, as it has been doing for over 10 years. "

                      More than 10 years? And the Crimea is not yet an independent Tatar republic sweat protectorate of Turkey?
                      Quote: Phantom Revolution
                      The world is not so simple.

                      easier than you think.
                      Quote: Phantom Revolution
                      http://www.yerkramas.org/2013/05/1

                      More recently, New Turkey maps have appeared in the Turkish media, including the Republic of Cyprus, part of Greece, Bulgaria, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, as well as the northern regions of Iraq and Syria. All this was accompanied by revanchist reasoning about the imminent return of “the good old days” (4).
                      )))))))))))
                      1. Phantom Revolution
                        Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 18: 06 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        It’s incomprehensible that the ethnic world is supposedly a war? Help — let them send humanitarian aid who is against it.

                        Do not flatter yourself about humanitarian aid, it comes to Syria in tons, I think to talk about what kind of help you do not need?

                        Quote: Kars
                        More than 10 years? And the Crimea is not yet an independent Tatar republic sweat protectorate of Turkey?

                        Do you think that everything is done spontaneously?) You are mistaken, the soil has been preparing for a very long time. Judging by those who came to power in Turkey, this soil will be fertilized more and more.

                        Quote: Kars
                        )))))))))))

                        Do not smile, Turkey is actively trying to go towards this.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 21 May 2013 19: 32 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        Do not flatter yourself about humanitarian aid, it comes to Syria in tons, I think to talk about what kind of help you do not need?

                        Do you think Ukraine has no customs?
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        Do you think that everything is done spontaneously?) You are mistaken, the soil has been preparing for a very long time. Judging by those who came to power in Turkey, this soil will be fertilized more and more.

                        Yes, let them want to cook, but Turkish builders are probably saboteurs)))
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        Do not smile, Turkey is actively trying to go towards this.

                        Do you want me to look for a map of our nationalists with the adjoining territories of Romania, Poland and the Russian Federation? Yes, it touches the memories of the Kuchum agreements))) as if there were no World War II ((
                      3. Phantom Revolution
                        Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 20: 38 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        Do you think Ukraine has no customs?

                        Tell you what is customs? Do you think that customs officers are incorruptible?) I hasten to upset you.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Yes, let them want to cook, but Turkish builders are probably saboteurs)))

                        You have not read the full article, alas, re-read more.

                        Quote: Kars
                        Do you want me to look for a map of our nationalists with the adjoining territories of Romania, Poland and the Russian Federation? Yes, it touches the memories of the Kuchum agreements))) as if there were no World War II ((

                        If these nationalists are sitting in the control apparatus, as Erdogan and Poland would have had an 2 army in strength in the NATO bloc, then it’s worth thinking, and not sitting naively.
                        And yes read about the Crimean Tatar community.
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 22 May 2013 09: 21 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        Tell you what is customs? Do you think that customs officers are incorruptible?) I hasten to upset you

                        Tell me, I want to see how the weapons will be transported, and not piecewise but in volumes.
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        You have not read the full article, alas, re-read more.

                        And that something will change?
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        And yes read about the Crimean Tatar community.

                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        If these nationalists are in the control apparatus, like Erdogan and Poland would have an army of 2 strength in the NATO bloc, then it’s worth thinking, and not sitting naively

                        Well, bring official statements about the territorial pritenziya, they are also sitting in the device)))
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        army 2 in strength in the NATO bloc, it is worth considering, rather than sitting naively.

                        Isn’t you a joker, or a panic-maker. I’m talking about Crimean communities here when China is at the border. Ukraine is already 20 years old, but from the very beginning everyone is divided, it’s falling apart, but it still exists, and that’s when it’s 90 from the army there was only a name, but there was no salyarka.
      3. Papakiko
        Papakiko 21 May 2013 11: 24 New
        +5
        Quote: Akim
        I do not care how the military to reduce the defense of Spain or the Netherlands

        Strongly true.
        Especially the latter, those generally on .... "famous place" under whom they are supposedly "Mars pacifists" or "hip dandelions".

        Want to live, be prepared for war!
        You don’t want to feed your army, you will feed someone else’s!
      4. seller trucks
        seller trucks 21 May 2013 11: 24 New
        +3
        Do not be afraid, no one will give Ukraine an insult, the Turks and Poles understand this very well.
        1. Akim
          Akim 21 May 2013 11: 32 New
          0
          Quote: seller trucks
          Do not be afraid, no one will give Ukraine an insult, the Turks and Poles understand this very well.

          I do not write in compote. Neither Turkey nor Poland submitted territorial claims to Ukraine. But in the new regional mess, it will not remain neutral.
          1. Egoza
            Egoza 21 May 2013 11: 46 New
            +7
            Quote: Akim
            Neither Turkey nor Poland submitted territorial claims to Ukraine.

            So this is "bye". And how it comes down to it .... how will they present it.
            In general, I really like the "argumentation" of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. allocated money for mass production, and when the machines and so on were updated, so "misuse"? And how to produce new aircraft using old equipment? belay
            1. Akim
              Akim 21 May 2013 11: 53 New
              +2
              Quote: Egoza
              And how to produce new aircraft on old equipment?

              Tricky. Like civilian orders or import orders, you’ll earn all the profit for yourself, and let the MO pay for the plant’s upgrade too.
            2. Mikhail3
              Mikhail3 21 May 2013 15: 24 New
              +3
              In front of my eyes, so two partners completely spat out. The manufacturer bought an excavator, the financier let the dogs down on him - where's the profit ?! The argument of the manufacturer that the excavator is profit, just a little later, the financier simply ignored. The result - the organization lost two-thirds of its space and part of its order portfolio. The producer pounds on, trying to keep people busy and do business.
              Three years later, a financier was run over from all things for the fact that he was a brake on development for everyone ... well, he stole, of course. A thief (synonymous with the word financier) cannot understand this logic. For him, any money is production. And all that he does not spend on them is a reduction in production! Financiers talk a lot about investments, but they mean only one thing - I will give you a ruble so that you give me ten. Any deviation from this scheme is unbearable for a thief ...
      5. bask
        bask 21 May 2013 11: 57 New
        +4
        Quote: Akim
        But the fact that Poland and Turkey is active

        As long as Russia possesses the 2nd largest nuclear potential, Ukraine has nothing to fear. In their right mind, not Poland, not Turkey, not even a “jerk”
        Good deal integration.
        But first of all, you need to do your Russian projects. Tu, Yak, Il, Be.
        The design bureaus of these firms almost no longer exist.
        Priority should be given to national projects.
        Of the joint ones, the production of AN 124, Ruslan, was better rejoiced. Here we need close integration of 2 countries !!
        CIPER PLANE 21 CENTURY!

        1. Akim
          Akim 21 May 2013 12: 12 New
          0
          Quote: bask
          While Russia possesses the second largest nuclear potential, Ukraine has nothing to fight

          Strongly said, but nuclear weapons can be used against a country with a similar arsenal.
          1. bask
            bask 21 May 2013 12: 32 New
            +3
            Quote: Akim
            Strongly said, but nuclear weapons can be used against a country with a similar arsenal.

            But Turkey and Poland are not NATO members without a team from the United States (they are only allowed to say). All decisions are made in Washington.
            And there they are well aware that the blow to Ukraine is the 3rd world!
            1. Akim
              Akim 21 May 2013 12: 41 New
              0
              Quote: bask
              But Turkey and Poland are NATO members and without a team from USA

              Uh, you don't know their charter. NATO is not a panacea. This is a collective defense (security) treaty. Those. if third countries become an aggressor, then the team will go to Brussels. And so the Turks can safely start a war against Syria, etc. without coordination with the Pentagon and other MOs.
        2. Papakiko
          Papakiko 21 May 2013 14: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: bask
          While Russia possesses the second largest nuclear potential, Ukraine has nothing to fear

          So, being born on the square, there are nuclear warheads from the "decommissioned" "atomic trains" and they are in no hurry to part. wink
  • Harakternik
    Harakternik 21 May 2013 14: 30 New
    +4
    europa had already stolen this project and the orange lackeys passed it to her at the beginning of the evrogei were interested in the project and then stole it. and the people are now fighting on the one hand with bandits bloodsuckers and on the other fascist bandera and trying to survive and even something to produce
  • elmir15
    elmir15 21 May 2013 16: 25 New
    +3
    ShturmKGB
    The European Union presses on Ukraine, it (Europe) does not need a strong and developed Ukraine ... plans for the future are still to reduce the army (now 184 thousand people).

    That is why the European Union puts sticks in the rapprochement of Ukraine and Russia.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 21 May 2013 10: 53 New
    11
    So I don’t remember who, but on a website a guest from Ukraine said something like this. -And Russia abandoned the project, we will now sell the AN 70 to Europe. The Europeans will fly on a modern plane, and the Russians will fly on junk.
    As time shows, life makes its own adjustments to plans. I can say one thing that without Russia, not one project of this kind can not be realized, there is too much competition and too little money for Ukraine to lay claim to hi
    1. fortunophile
      fortunophile 21 May 2013 11: 00 New
      0
      It looks like Russia is disappointed in the "brotherhood" and focuses on Ily
      The Minister of Defense of Ukraine Pavel Lebedev claims that the agreement between Russia and Ukraine on the An-70 plane is not being implemented by the Russian side. Russian officials do not hide the fact that due to Ukraine’s reluctance to join the Customs Union, they have cooled down on the project and changed their minds about buying new planes.


      “First, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation was going to buy 70 units, then - 60 units, the penultimate time - 16. Now - zero. Because Russia has begun to produce military transport aircraft Il-476. Since any proposal remains relevant for a certain period of time. the world, and this is how my leadership works, "says Mikhail Zurabov, Ambassador of the Russian Federation to Ukraine.

      Among the assets that may be of interest to Russians are intellectual rights to the development of Ukrainian aircraft designers and the Ukrainian company Antonov itself.

      “Of course, control over Antonov’s company worries Moscow. Negotiations were underway for our Antonov company to enter the United Aviation Corporation, "military expert Valentin Badrak.

      Ukrainian aircraft manufacturers are worried about the plans of the Russians to independently modernize the aircraft of the Antonov company without their approval.


      "The general designer of the current Russian military transport aircraft, Mr. Livanov, actually put his signature on the intention of the Russian side to modernize the Ruslan An-124 aircraft without the participation of the Ukrainian side. And this is dangerous. This actually testifies to such a pirate path of the Russian side," military expert Valentin Badrak ...


      In response to criticism, Russians say that Ukraine violates the terms of financing a joint project.


      "The Russian Ministry of Defense has fully complied with its financial obligations. At the same time, Ukraine is experiencing delays in financing. The project is funded by Kiev only 45%", - Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia Anatoly Antonov.


      “Currently, Russia has paid all the funds that they should have paid. Now the Ukrainian side is late with funding.


      And by the way, this can lead to significant penalties from the Russian Federation in Ukraine. There are already certain claims against Antonov's ANTK from Russia. They can amount to, if we do not quickly resolve the issue before financing and completion, $ 300 million, "says ex-Deputy Minister of Industrial Policy Vitaly Nemilostivy.

      1. katran666
        katran666 21 May 2013 11: 27 New
        +6
        and rightly so, that she was disappointed
    2. Phantom Revolution
      Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 11: 29 New
      +6
      You read the news about gas, how you were going to buy cheaper in Europe, but it turns out not at all cheap, here the principle is "to spite my mother's ears, I will frostbite".
  • Suhov
    Suhov 21 May 2013 12: 01 New
    +5
    Quote: fortuneophile
    It is time to admit that Ukraine has no money for the army.

    It's time to admit that Ukraine has no money at all.
    So, just to steal a little (for fun), but no more ...
    And therefore - any excuses will come off, even such stupid ones as:
    ... the cause of the conflict is the misuse of Antonov by the Ministry of Defense ...
    these funds were spent for the re-equipment of production and the purchase of equipment ...
    but not directly to the release of aircraft ... !!!
    Argumentsthat tooling and equipment are used to produce An-70 aircraft
    do not channel!
    what
    The more I recognize Ukrainian officials,
    the more I like "native bureaucrats"!
    wassat
  • orff
    orff 21 May 2013 10: 20 New
    12
    All Antonov Design Bureau for permanent residence in Russia! Let's save what the European Union will gobble up!
    1. Akim
      Akim 21 May 2013 11: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: orff
      Let's save what the European Union will gobble up!

      That is in Russia a sea of ​​new Ils and Carcases arrives (sarcasm).
      1. katran666
        katran666 21 May 2013 11: 28 New
        +3
        nothing, build, remember the main thing - you do not break off a freebie ...
      2. Phantom Revolution
        Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 11: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        That is in Russia a sea of ​​new Ils and Carcases arrives (sarcasm).

        The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation will receive the first three Il-76MD-90А military transport aircraft in the 2014 year. So that is all in due time.
        1. Akim
          Akim 21 May 2013 11: 36 New
          -1
          Quote: Phantom Revolution
          IL-76MD-90A in 2014.

          IL-476 is as new as if an accordion had been added to Ikarus.
          1. katran666
            katran666 21 May 2013 11: 44 New
            +3
            Build your super-duper AN-70 yourself, we spit, we can do without you somehow
            1. Akim
              Akim 21 May 2013 11: 54 New
              -1
              I like this childish logic so much. I just said. that he is not new.
              1. Phantom Revolution
                Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 12: 12 New
                +3
                Quote: Akim
                I just said. that he is not new.

                Is it not new in what sense?)))))) In terms of developing IL-76 since the 71 year, but this does not mean that it is the same aircraft of the 71 year) It's like that the 80 is equal to the stronghold.) Or that something like that, the logic is really childish.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 21 May 2013 12: 25 New
                  0
                  Quote: Phantom Revolution
                  It's like that t80 is equal to the stronghold

                  And I'm not saying it's new. And the BTR-3 is a deep modernization of the BTR-80. Nothing new was invented with the T-64/72. We will see. what will happen to "Armaga", how much new there will be.
              2. ATATA
                ATATA 21 May 2013 13: 05 New
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                I like this childish logic so much. I just said. that he is not new.

                By this logic, OPLOT cannot be called new.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 21 May 2013 13: 08 New
                  -2
                  Quote: ATATA
                  By this logic, OPLOT cannot be called new.

                  A little higher...
                2. Suhov
                  Suhov 21 May 2013 16: 24 New
                  0
                  Quote: ATATA
                  According to this logic and OPLOT can not be called new.

                  Wait a minute.
                  First you need to decide: what is new and what is modernization.
                  How many percent changes must be in order for a product to be considered new?
                  In my opinion, if a product has no qualitative changes, the product is old.
                  But, modernization is not bad.
                  Due to modernization, it is easier to get the optimal ratio - price / quality.
                  hi
                  1. Ziksura
                    Ziksura 21 May 2013 21: 51 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Sukhov
                    First you need to decide: what is new and what is modernization.

                    And then look a little deeper: what gives rise to lift in an airplane? First of all, the wing and the "engine". And in IL, what is new in the first place? It is they who are dear, plus avionics for better handling. And if everything else already satisfies the needs, why "well, it is very necessary to change it." So let's attach oval wheels to the car, after all, and the main thing is NEW. Still have questions?
                    Best regards hi
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 21 May 2013 22: 47 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Ziksura
                      what gives rise to lift in an airplane? First of all, the wing and the "engine".

                      Following this logic, the Boeing 737-100 and Boeing 737-300 are completely different planes.
                    2. Suhov
                      Suhov 21 May 2013 23: 10 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Ziksura
                      Now let's attach oval wheels to the car, because the main thing is NEW. Do you have any questions?

                      Not questions, but clarification.
                      A technical solution must satisfy a specific human need.
                      For reference. In olden times, if a person had kidney stones (they say it is very painful), they put the patient on a cart and drove over the bumps until the stones popped up.
                      If oval wheels contribute to such a cleansing of the kidneys, then why not?
                      Not everyone will need such wheels, but for some they can be very useful.
                      hi
                      The possibilities (resources) of a person, unlike requests, are limited.
                      And here you are right:
                      Changing something just to change is unreasonable.
                      hi
              3. andrejwz
                andrejwz 21 May 2013 13: 05 New
                0
                Quote: Akim
                I just said. that he is not new.

                Maybe you didn't have an accordion in your childhood?
                1. Akim
                  Akim 21 May 2013 13: 14 New
                  -1
                  Quote: andrejwz
                  Maybe you didn't have an accordion in your childhood?

                  Did not have. My relative worked at a toy factory and my grandmother and grandfather bought an expensive shortage (armored personnel carriers and a radio-controlled helicopter, a submarine on wires, etc.)
                  I gave this example of how to make more out of less. Just if I said that they made a seven with VAZ 01 it would not be correct.
                  1. Joker
                    Joker 21 May 2013 14: 46 New
                    +2
                    Maybe you didn't have an accordion in your childhood?

                    Maybe enough already? AN-70 new aircraft, IL-476 upgrades. It would be great to have an AS in the army, but unfortunately there is no point in investing money in a country that (unfortunately) seeks into the EU and NATO, it is better to develop something of your own, even if it is more expensive, but safer. They built in Azerbaijan already, now everything is left in the end, the only one with whom you can safely cooperate is Belarus and it’s not known what course they will take after leaving. For the time being, it is better to organize all the production at home, and there already to look with whom to cooperate.
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 21 May 2013 14: 56 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Joker
                      and NATO

                      I am always amazed at Russian TV channels. Or there editors - brakes or specially dispose thrown. Now is 2013, not 2010. Ukraine is a non-aligned state !!!!
          2. Gecko
            Gecko 21 May 2013 11: 47 New
            +2
            a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush
            1. cdrt
              cdrt 21 May 2013 12: 26 New
              +1
              The correct phrase sounds like - a titmouse in hands is better than a duck under the bed wink
          3. Phantom Revolution
            Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 11: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            IL-476 is as new as if an accordion had been added to Ikarus.

            Oh analytega is impressive, IL-76 is a deep upgrade. But she enters the army. We are so rich and glad that if a partner sells technology unbeknownst to the same Chinese, then it’s better to finish our development rather than a joint one that can also be sold and I think they will sell to the Chinese.
            1. Akim
              Akim 21 May 2013 12: 09 New
              -1
              Quote: Phantom Revolution
              if a partner sells technology unbeknownst to the same Chinese,

              I think the Y-20 is more Russian than Ukrainian.
              1. Phantom Revolution
                Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 12: 47 New
                +2
                These are just guesses, unlike the fact that the Zubr was sold to China, the BUK was delivered to Georgia, it sold 2 Su-27s to the USA, it also sold the 36D6M radar, etc. There are many more to list.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 21 May 2013 13: 04 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Phantom Revolution
                  unlike the fact that "Zubr" was sold to China

                  Aren't you ashamed to say that? How many Russian military officials sold - the language does not turn. The entire Chinese submarine fleet is Soviet copies, and the Ji-11 and Su-27SK brothers Or a speck in the eyes of others are more noticeable than a log in their own right.
                  1. Phantom Revolution
                    Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 13: 19 New
                    +2
                    All this was basically squandered in the 90 years, when the country was ruled by a drunkard and oligarchs. Now you have a similar problem, because I do not see at the moment the option to conduct joint development that will flow in an unknown direction, without our knowledge. And the second, we sold our developments exclusively.
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 21 May 2013 13: 35 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Phantom Revolution
                      And the second, we sold our developments exclusively.

                      And more precisely, the development of the USSR. You don’t know who sold what, and you personally are richer from this, I think, did not.
                      1. Phantom Revolution
                        Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 14: 32 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Akim
                        And more precisely, the development of the USSR.

                        Can you remind who the successor of the USSR?
                        Quote: Akim
                        You personally are richer from this, I think, did not.

                        This applies to oligarchic structures in Russia, and in Ukraine as well. And personally, this can only concern the fact that these projects were built on my taxes. In fact, we live in a world where everything is private, but for some reason we only have a duty to the state.
                      2. Akim
                        Akim 21 May 2013 14: 41 New
                        -6
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        Can you remind who the successor of the USSR?

                        Are you proud of it? I would not. From the USSR you only got music for the anthem and a place in the UN. But this is politics.
                        In the USSR there was no copyright patented by enterprises. So if Moldova wants to build a MiG-29 laughing in the old configuration, it will be hard to sue. (but theoretically possible).
                      3. Phantom Revolution
                        Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 16: 17 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Akim
                        Are you proud of it? I would not. From the USSR you only got music for the anthem and a place in the UN. But this is politics.

                        Dear, I am proud of the history of my people. At the moment, the Russian Federation is a world player, it does not reach the superpower like the USSR, but they reckon with the opinion, because it is able to destroy the whole world in an hour. It is also slowly developing, not so fast as China, but it is moving forward. The standard of living is slowly rising. Yes there is corruption and theft, etc., but for 1 a day I have not gotten rid of everything. At least we stopped the fall that happened under Gorbachev and Yeltsin.

                        Regarding Ukraine, what can you say about the backlog that you got from the USSR? What level are you at? Army? Industry? Economy?
                        The only thing I can say no offense is decline. Otherwise, your citizens would not go to us to earn money, but we will come to you.

                        Quote: Akim
                        In the USSR there was no copyright patented by enterprises.

                        Of course, but I'm not talking about the development of the USSR, but about joint development,
                      4. Akim
                        Akim 21 May 2013 18: 14 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        Regarding Ukraine, what can you say about the backlog that you got from the USSR? What level are you at? Army? Industry? Economy?
                        The only thing I can say no offense is decline. Otherwise, your citizens would not go to us to earn money, but we will come to you.


                        There is a bit of politics, so I will disclose it. There is no unemployment in Ukraine, in the form it is usual. There is even a great demand for "skilled workers" (turner, locksmith, welder, plumber, etc.), but because of the difference in wages, it is more profitable to travel to Russia or Poland (to all painters, bricklayers, laborers), and spend money in Ukraine. So that you understand. For money from a kopeck piece in Odessa, you can buy a kopeck piece in ... Yeisk (not even in Anapa or Sochi). So with all prices. Not everyone goes to earn money. With a normal head or hands, you can even work and earn good money on the territory of Ukraine.
                      5. Phantom Revolution
                        Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 23: 08 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Akim
                        There is a bit of politics, so I will disclose it. There is no unemployment in Ukraine, in the form it is usual. There is even a great demand for "skilled workers" (turner, locksmith, welder, plumber, etc.), but because of the difference in wages, it is more profitable to travel to Russia or Poland (to all painters, bricklayers, laborers), and spend money in Ukraine. So that you understand. For money from a kopeck piece in Odessa, you can buy a kopeck piece in ... Yeisk (not even in Anapa or Sochi). So with all prices. Not everyone goes to earn money. With a normal head or hands, you can even work and earn good money on the territory of Ukraine.

                        Of course, many people who live roughly in a poor country go to work in neighboring more successful countries, and then they return back, because Wahat is over or stays there. And about spending money, do they eat air?) They also live in rented apartments, in fact, 20 percent remains to be sent to relatives.
                        About apartments, about Sochi, you turned down, there are prices before the Olympics, as if by leaps and bounds.
                      6. Akim
                        Akim 21 May 2013 23: 27 New
                        0
                        Quote: Phantom Revolution
                        About apartments, about Sochi, you turned down, there are prices before the Olympics, as if by leaps and bounds.

                        I'm not talking about the period before the Olympics, but in general. As for money - everyone spins as he can. In Odessa, there is a set of welders on ships. Salary as a senior minder. Only no. And there are vacancies. Naturally, a gutsula, which can only graze sheep and put bricks, will not be taken. Here they come to you or to collect strawberries in Poland. And whoever has hands from that place (it doesn’t matter what political color and which Dnieper bank it is from) - those in Kiev or Donetsk do a good job as plumbers, or locksmiths in Kharkov, etc ...
                      7. Phantom Revolution
                        Phantom Revolution 22 May 2013 06: 22 New
                        0
                        Whoever has hands from that place will find work everywhere. And as you put it, a gutsul, he will not work in Russia either, because there are already plenty of them from Asian republics. I will not speak for everyone, but I have seen a lot of welders, electricians. Well, the builders, to be honest, they don’t know how to work for the most part, it concerns not only Ukrainians, but also Asians. Alas, I make repairs if necessary myself, more reliably.)
                2. Akim
                  Akim 21 May 2013 18: 48 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Phantom Revolution
                  Dear, I am proud of the history of my people.

                  I, too, am proud of the history of that state, and therefore it turns me out when state flags (of Russia or Ukraine) are carried next to the Red banner of Victory. Or do you recall that beneath them, the collaborators fought in the Great Patriotic War?
                3. Phantom Revolution
                  Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 23: 14 New
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  I, too, am proud of the history of that state, and therefore it turns me out when state flags (of Russia or Ukraine) are carried next to the Red banner of Victory. Or do you recall that beneath them, the collaborators fought in the Great Patriotic War?

                  Are you twisting from the flags under which our grandfathers destroyed the "fascist hydra"? This is a tribute to the great victory of the united nations. And you are not twisted from the flags of the Bandera or UPA or fascist crosses?
                4. Akim
                  Akim 21 May 2013 23: 35 New
                  0
                  Quote: Phantom Revolution
                  Phantom Revolution

                  I dodged everything, I already want to spit in your direction. Under the tricolor were the soldiers of the ROA, and under the yellow-blue soldiers of the UPA. Therefore, these mergers in memory of my grandfather, who departed from Bug to Stalingrad and burned in a tank near Kursk, are unpleasant for me (no matter how beautifully the current Presidents did not sing odes to them). World War I - I agree. But I did not see my great-grandfather.
                  PS Moderators, explain how the rating can fall down a couple of hours by 1000 points?
                5. Phantom Revolution
                  Phantom Revolution 22 May 2013 12: 34 New
                  0
                  Well sorry, apparently did not understand. Ukraine is a multinational country where Russians occupy not a small part and many have relatives in Russia, so the tricolor is a completely normal merger, the semantic load is not about the ROA, but about the current state. If you please, such a state. the flag, not the flag of the ROA organization.
      3. Joker
        Joker 21 May 2013 14: 50 New
        +4
        Can you remind who the successor of the USSR?

        Here it is, but the fact that many people remember about the USSR, they say, the development is not Russian, but common, and the fact that we all took over the debts and paid them alone, this is why no one remembers, all the USSR needed good technology pick yourself up, otherwise I’ll see how the chamber looks like in everybody’s mind, how to take off the cream, so we’re the first, but how to pay debts, so to the bushes.
      4. Akim
        Akim 21 May 2013 15: 01 New
        -2
        Quote: Joker
        and the fact that we all took over the debts and paid them alone is for some reason no one remembers

        Russia received foreign assets of the USSR, and they are no less than our debts themselves. Nobody talks about this. Or Putin writes off some countries demonstratively debts they have incurred to modern Russia. Do not make me laugh.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 21 May 2013 14: 40 New
    +2
    Quote: Akim
    Or a speck in someone else's eye is more noticeable than a log in itself.

    Yes, we and our near-fledged mothers and yours, this is not a log matter.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 21 May 2013 14: 37 New
    +3
    Quote: Akim

    That's just in Russia, a sea of ​​new silts and carcasses arrives (sarcasm)

    So far, not many, but the speed is growing and this year more than 100 aircraft for the Air Force will be purchased. This is much more than 0 in Ukraine, so your sarcasm does not pass. hi
    1. Akim
      Akim 21 May 2013 14: 51 New
      -6
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      but the turnover is growing and this year more than 100 aircraft for the Air Force will be purchased.

      I'm not talking about military, but about military transport (moreover, new ones). Naturally, Russia is richer (where is Ukraine, "like crustaceans to Kiev"). Restore yours. There is money.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 21 May 2013 15: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Akim
        , so let's get a worker from Ukraine. Restore yours. There is money.

        No, it’s not a matter of grabbing, it’s more about your power. This is more of a policy and a response to the actions of Ukraine in the Black Sea Fleet, in Transnistria.
        “We ensure the stability of the situation in the Transnistrian region and are most interested in this,” said Yevnevich. - Russian peacekeepers operate in a transport blockade. Recently, not a single issue has been resolved on the movement of our goods through the territory of Ukraine. ”


        “Recently, not a single question on the movement of our goods through the territory of Ukraine has been resolved”

        “We are not allowed to fly through Ukraine’s airspace,” ITAR-TASS quoted a general.
        http://warfiles.ru/show-31347-minoborony-ukraina-i-moldaviya-ustroili-blokadu-ro
        ssiyskim-mirotvorcam-v-pridnestrove.html
        1. Akim
          Akim 21 May 2013 15: 25 New
          -1
          I want to remind you where the conversation started:
          All Antonov Design Bureau for permanent residence in Russia! Let's save what the European Union will gobble up!

          As for the blockade, it is said loudly. They just got used to the fact that the cargo followed in transit without inspection. And now there is no inspection if the cargo is declared as civil. Dual-use - please check out. This is normal world practice and it is not worth making an apple of discord out of it. The very same trade with the PMR is conducted normally. without coordination with Chisinau, as was the case under Yusche. I live in Odessa (I know better from here).
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 21 May 2013 16: 00 New
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            . They just got used to the fact that the goods followed in transit without inspection And now there is no inspection if the cargo is declared as civil. Dual use - please check out

            This is all for the newsboys. And, in fact, they simply don’t miss without explaining the reasons for nodding to / Moldova.
            1. Akim
              Akim 21 May 2013 18: 16 New
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              in fact, they just don’t miss without explaining the reasons for nodding to \ Moldova.

              Have you personally been told this at customs? Or do you often send goods for peacekeepers?
  • il grand casino
    il grand casino 21 May 2013 10: 20 New
    0
    Everything rests on finances ...
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 21 May 2013 10: 43 New
      +9
      Everything rests on finances ...

      The financial situation of Ukraine is a topic for the obituary, and the state of the economy is more than deplorable ... If Ukraine was a member of the European Union, its collapse would have pulled the entire eurozone. The position of the finances of Greece is a pale shadow of the Ukrainian abyss.
      1. Phantom Revolution
        Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 11: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: Corsair
        The financial situation of Ukraine is a topic for the obituary, and the state of the economy is more than deplorable ... If Ukraine was a member of the European Union, its collapse would have pulled the entire eurozone. The position of the finances of Greece is a pale shadow of the Ukrainian abyss.

        Then I agree, Ukraine got into the IMF debt hole, taking loans, now it takes another loan again, if I'm not mistaken. Alas, the oligarchs do not need a strong Ukraine; they need money.
        1. Akim
          Akim 21 May 2013 11: 42 New
          -2
          Quote: Phantom Revolution
          Then I agree, Ukraine got into the IMF debt hole by taking loans

          All loans under state guarantees are 20% of GDP. Default does not threaten. Although the total debt taken is 80% of GDP. But these are company debts.
          1. Phantom Revolution
            Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 12: 34 New
            +2
            The World Bank predicts an increase in public debt of Ukraine by the end of the year to 40,1% of GDP. Experts interviewed by UNIAN forecast a consolidated budget deficit of over 53 billion UAH, or about 4% of GDP, a state debt level of over 590 billion UAH, or at the level of 36-40% of GDP, according to the results of the current year.
            1. Akim
              Akim 21 May 2013 13: 06 New
              -3
              Quote: Phantom Revolution
              World Bank predicts growth of public debt of Ukraine

              According to forecasts, a dollar six months ago was supposed to cost 11 UAH.
              1. Phantom Revolution
                Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 13: 37 New
                +2
                Quote: Akim
                According to forecasts, a dollar six months ago was supposed to cost 11 UAH.

                Take an interest not only in forecasts, but also in the state debt and domestic debt of Ukraine, for 2013 year.
                http://index.minfin.com.ua/index/debtgov/
                1. Akim
                  Akim 21 May 2013 13: 41 New
                  0
                  Quote: Phantom Revolution
                  Take an interest not only in forecasts, but also in the state debt and domestic debt of Ukraine, for 2013 year.

                  I did not argue. I believe you, the more I know myself well. But it is not fatal. All countries with large external debts. Ceausescu only once repaid all the country's debts, for which he paid.
                  1. seller trucks
                    seller trucks 21 May 2013 14: 12 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Akim
                    All countries with large external debts.


                    Ukraine, not all, well, and somehow it does not correctly equate with Japan, the USA and Germany, Ukraine is in the second ten in this list, Russia is honorary 99
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 21 May 2013 14: 26 New
                      0
                      Quote: seller trucks
                      Ukraine is in the top ten on this list, Russia is honored 99

                      Honestly, I do not know such a list. There is one where Russia is at the beginning of the third dozen, and Ukraine is in the middle of 4. There Kazakhstan is not far away (at the end of 4 dozen). And that would be correctly compared with Poland. Each Pole owes 5,5 thousand bucks, Ukrainian 2,5 thousand. By the way, the Russian is 3600. And Poland is higher than Ukraine according to the list.
                      PS True, to be honest, Poland has 2,5 times more GDP than Ukraine.
                      1. valokordin
                        valokordin 21 May 2013 14: 50 New
                        +2
                        Akim and Phantom stop dogging like in kindergarten. This reminds me of a joke: Mykola, and the mane mate bought a doll, and my dad bought a balaban, and the mane bought a pear, but you still don’t piss on the fence.
                      2. Akim
                        Akim 21 May 2013 15: 03 New
                        -1
                        Quote: valokordin
                        Akim and Phantom stop dogging like in kindergarten.

                        And we will not dog. We don’t even argue. We just restore mutual gaps.
                    2. seller trucks
                      seller trucks 21 May 2013 15: 54 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Akim
                      Honestly, I do not know such a list.


                      Well, how can Russia be without proofs
                      http://riarating.ru/countries_rankings/20120529/610216161.html
                      Ukraine
                      http://dengi.ua/news/106075_Ukraina_vhodit_v_spisok_samyh_problemnyh_stran-dolzh
                      nikov_mira _-_ eks-ministr_finansov.html

                      http://smi2.ru/hercy/c1086525/
                    3. Akim
                      Akim 21 May 2013 18: 24 New
                      -1
                      Quote: seller trucks
                      Well, how can Russia be without proofs

                      I will give you a link to the English part of Wikipedia (it is more recent than in Russian) Russia and Ukraine went down the list there. Poland rose. But Russia is far from 99th place - it’s a lie. Jump from 28th place right to 99th. I will not believe.
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
    2. Egoza
      Egoza 21 May 2013 11: 48 New
      +7
      Quote: Phantom Revolution
      Ukraine fell into the IMF debt hole, taking loans, now again takes another loan,

      And now the IMF also forbids raising salaries, and demands to increase the cost of electricity and gas to the population again!
      1. MG42
        MG42 21 May 2013 12: 57 New
        +2
        Quote: Egoza
        , and requires again to increase the cost of electricity and gas to the population!

        so far, to no avail, once again the IMF mission leaves Ukraine with nothing (5 times already), nobody is going to raise the price of gas, is it worth the government to produce full payers that are already full? without raising salaries and pensions raise com. services = this is the road to nowhere, to chaos.
  • BARKAS
    BARKAS 21 May 2013 10: 30 New
    +5
    “We do not refuse the An-70 project, the Ukrainian army needs it,

    But who would doubt the question of whether the army needs Ukraine, it seems, no.
    1. Phantom Revolution
      Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 11: 39 New
      +5
      I hope that we will have time to buy out specialists and technologies before China does this, but I feel that the kings of Ukraine will sell technologies to the Chinese better.
  • pa_nik
    pa_nik 21 May 2013 10: 31 New
    +6
    ShturmKGB
    sorry brotherly people ...


    I will add. It’s a pity the lost time that can be used to revive a common state (it does not matter the federation or the confederation, so as not to violate anyone’s dignity and freedom (I don’t know from whom belay ) continue to engage in strengthening the economy, security, etc., before impending events.
    1. Phantom Revolution
      Phantom Revolution 21 May 2013 17: 39 New
      0
      You see, the principle here is that the same Yanek wants to be at the helm and take Ukraine’s money in his pockets, similarly, all politicians do this and are afraid to lose power and take money away with impunity.
  • avt
    avt 21 May 2013 10: 38 New
    +5
    Another confirmation of the sad fate of the AN-70 request Alas! But he seems to be too late to stand in line with the USSR - is doomed. Sad but true.
  • pot-bellied
    pot-bellied 21 May 2013 10: 39 New
    +7
    in fact, what a re-equipment of production and purchase of equipment! there are ticks, wire and a sledgehammer — let them sculpt, and then paint them with a broom in brown color and let them fly to the bright end.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 21 May 2013 10: 42 New
    +2
    And the "hero" himself is somehow sad in the photo. All this is sad. They will ruin the project on ... ... Well, what else do the Ukrov rulers need to understand: "Only with Russia! No other way!"
    1. Akim
      Akim 21 May 2013 11: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: retired
      And the "hero" himself is somehow sad in the photo.

      Here is his new photo.

      Next to the Ukrainian flag is the Russian tricolor. Flies and is not sad.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 21 May 2013 11: 41 New
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        poison with Ukrainian flag Russian tricolor. Flies and is not sad.

        I don’t know, I don’t know ... Here, yes, have some fun. Spout up! And in the photo in the article, a frown of some kind.
        1. Akim
          Akim 21 May 2013 11: 47 New
          -2
          Quote: retired
          , and in the photo in the article some frown.

          It has been repainted since the end of winter, and the photo in the article from last summer (leaves on trees).
  • shark
    shark 21 May 2013 11: 01 New
    +4
    steal all the documentation for the project, kidnap all the sensible specialists and give the aircraft an index of PU-70 and sculpt like hot cakes.
  • Metlik
    Metlik 21 May 2013 11: 08 New
    +3
    It would be nice if Russia and Ukraine learned to work together. Good luck An-70.
  • Conepatus
    Conepatus 21 May 2013 11: 14 New
    10
    And they did the right thing, that they spent the loot on re-equipping production, although someone was not afraid and did what was necessary. Well, would they build two An70s and what? So, they would sell the cunning ministers these planes within a month. Moreover, for half the price, and the money in pocket.
    And yet, yes, Ukraine does not need an army, Ukraine needs garbage. They are already more than the army and the budget there can not be compared.
    Afraid of the power of rebellion.
    And "Antonovtsy" are great, they come and go, but production needs to be updated.
    1. itkul
      itkul 21 May 2013 12: 47 New
      0
      Quote: Conepatus
      And yet, yes, Ukraine does not need an army


      So, Russia gave Ukraine guarantees of security for renouncing nuclear weapons. So, indeed, Uraine’s army is not really needed, better spend this money on something more necessary
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 21 May 2013 11: 15 New
    +3
    http://rkm.kiev.ua/kalejdoskop-sobytij/38152/

    the real state of affairs in Antonov’s GP, who are interested,
  • Akim
    Akim 21 May 2013 11: 27 New
    +6
    Two days ago I watched "Die Hard-5" (I understand late, but still). It clearly shows the opinion of the average American. For them, Ukraine and Russia are still a single country. Because Chernobyl is somewhere near Moscow. This is where we are fighting. And there, in the distance, Chechnya and the Czech Republic are confused and they think that all the military are only subordinate to the Kremlin, except for the Baltic states (although they do not know Latvia and Lithuania, together with Estonia. They have a state - the Baltic states).
  • KononAV
    KononAV 21 May 2013 11: 30 New
    +3
    What a long-suffering airplane, like all aviation after the 90th
  • Makarov
    Makarov 21 May 2013 11: 47 New
    +5
    yeah, my father told me about 20 years ago - "the aviation industry is unsinkable, he will not be allowed to" shut off oxygen ".... he was mistaken .... in a normal country he is unsinkable, Ukraine, this is generally (unprintable word) knows what. ....
  • dmitrich
    dmitrich 21 May 2013 11: 57 New
    +3
    not pull Ukraine this plane alone without Russia.
    1. wax
      wax 21 May 2013 14: 51 New
      +3
      Actually, it’s true, and we need a plane, but ... where are the guarantees that having invested in a plane and re-equipping their company, we won’t get a sharp turn from the nearby gates, or sell technology to the West. The vehicle could guarantee, but that’s how they turn their nose.
  • katran666
    katran666 21 May 2013 13: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: Conepatus
    And they did the right thing, that they spent the loot on re-equipping production, although someone was not afraid and did what was necessary. Well, would they build two An70s and what? So, they would sell the cunning ministers these planes within a month. Moreover, for half the price, and the money in pocket.
    And yet, yes, Ukraine does not need an army, Ukraine needs garbage. They are already more than the army and the budget there can not be compared.
    Afraid of the power of rebellion.
    And "Antonovtsy" are great, they come and go, but production needs to be updated.

    in legal language this is called misappropriation of funds, in everyday life - theft. I have no doubt that Russian money is also stolen in Ukraine - counter products are ordered, money is allowed to restore production and then the milking process continues in a different circle ...
    PySy - I still thought Th so the cost of the An-70 jumped - now it’s clear -
    cunningly ... they want Russia to pay for them as well
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 21 May 2013 14: 16 New
      +1
      BMD-4.-2.5 million dollars, not so long ago the tank was cheaper. It looks like your "production is being updated" smile
  • chertjaga
    chertjaga 21 May 2013 14: 48 New
    +2
    All the problems of An-s and the design bureau itself lie in the fact that the design bureau and all its daughters have not yet been seized by anyone
  • Vtel
    Vtel 21 May 2013 14: 58 New
    +4
    However, these funds were spent on re-equipment of production and purchase of equipment for the Antonov serial plant, but not directly on the production of aircraft.

    It is noteworthy that the money was not stolen, but invested in production - an order for them. And here in Russia, Chubsayty, Vekselbergs and other "patriots" have profited billions more abruptly, and from the Prizident they are honored and respected. So the Ukrainians are great - keep it up!
  • abc_alex
    abc_alex 21 May 2013 16: 07 New
    0
    I really respect Antonov cars. For style, for power, for tradition and for some courage or something ... Ruslan and Mriya are just a song.

    But alas ... Unfortunately, today everything was decided by politicians. Dear Akim, is somewhat right, but who will guarantee today that Ukrainians will not choose Yushchenko-2 on Maidan tomorrow?
    Or, having surrendered to Europe, the Ukrainians will not be faced with the demand for some kind of "European package" or "road map" that would make the existence of "Antonov" impossible?

    BTA aircraft are cars for years, even decades. How can one make BTA dependent on a poorly predicted regimen? The orange period clearly showed: Ukrainians are massively ready to expel Russians from Sevastopol and go into confrontation with Russia. Not all, but half the country for sure. Well, who wants to place an order for the army in such a situation?

    By the way, the remarkable SV 27 propeller fan for An-70, providing it with a shortened take-off run and almost 30% fuel economy, was developed in Russia. So there is a very big question whether Ukraine will be able to produce the An-70 in its current form without the participation of Russia.
    1. Vital 33
      Vital 33 21 May 2013 16: 23 New
      +1
      Dear you, behind a large number of letters, you hide a simple attempt by Moscow to "punish" the rebellious Kiev ... What does the mythical demands of Europe have to do with it? purely intellectual property business. What does the "unpredictable mode" have to do with it? If it was to be produced in Russia ???? !!! And more than half would be Russian. And then, according to the regime, even under the hated Yushcha, that the borders were closed ?, the enterprises stopped cooperating? the plane was developed and continued ... but the fact that politics, so it does not interfere with normal people work ... And if you are looking for some intelligible excuses from a PURE POLITICAL decision, then bring them not so funny ... but though would ... "why should we feed someone else's aviation industry, if we have our own ...", this is a little better, but not much.
      1. Sharingan
        Sharingan 22 May 2013 09: 44 New
        -1
        Quote: Vital 33
        What does the "unpredictable mode" have to do with it? If it was to be produced in Russia ???? !!! And more than half would be Russian.


        If what happens, where will we take the second half of the plane? Again from scratch to raise production? No, we better somehow live with our ILs and TUShaks.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Akim
      Akim 21 May 2013 18: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: abc_alex
      So there is a very big question whether Ukraine will be able to produce the An-70 in its current form without the participation of Russia.

      Theoretically able. Physically not. It does not need a complete closed cycle of production. Or do they buy all the parts inside the country at the S / J-100? If Russia nevertheless leaves the project, this does not mean a taboo on components. An-148/158, as the final product was developed in Ukraine, but Russia supplies most of the components. And there is no speculation on this. Also, An-70 can be.
      1. Vital 33
        Vital 33 21 May 2013 18: 57 New
        0
        SSJ-100 is generally 25% Russian. And the remaining 75% is imported. I can not vouch for accuracy, but something like that ...
        1. Akim
          Akim 21 May 2013 19: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: Vital 33
          SSJ-100 is generally 25% Russian. And the remaining 75% is imported

          But the plane is being sold as a Russian product. Hyundai Solaris is probably more Russian - but Korea is still considered the manufacturer of the final product.
          1. Vital 33
            Vital 33 21 May 2013 19: 28 New
            +1
            So and I about the same ...))) It was in your support ...))
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Sharingan
    Sharingan 22 May 2013 08: 43 New
    -1
    Oh-ho-ho, but the noise was from the Ukrainians, how much pathos. "Yes, we are, yes, we are, yes, we put it into production, we are an air force." And we just laughed: "First start ...". Actually, which was required to prove, Russia de facto withdrew from the project, and it bent safely. Congratulations to Ukraine on independence, cho :)
    1. Vital 33
      Vital 33 22 May 2013 12: 29 New
      +1
      We also congratulate you on the collapse of the entire aviation industry))). Build on the health of the SSJ-100.
  • Sharingan
    Sharingan 23 May 2013 16: 14 New
    -1
    Quote: Vital 33
    We also congratulate you on the collapse of the entire aviation industry))). Build on the health of the SSJ-100.

    Thank you, we will definitely build SSJ and IL and TU.