Military Review

Love of arms. A man with a gun is not protected by law

185
Love of arms. A man with a gun is not protected by lawLegally purchased weapon in Russia it’s as difficult as getting into an astronaut squad. I'll start in order. First you need to stock up on three medical certificates.


I used to come to the military clinic, where every year I underwent a mandatory medical examination for all the military, visited three offices, and I had a certificate in my pocket. This year, my general practitioner said that she still had the forms of certificates, but the clinic does not have a license for this medical service. I had to call the urban civil polyclinics, but in all I heard the same answer: no license.

WITHOUT DOCUMENTS

Legally, only one long, but as it turned out, easy way was imposed on me. It began in the city psychoneurological clinic.
- Where is the pink form with which you were supposed to come to me? - asked the doctor.

About some pink form I did not know.

- I will give a certificate, but in the city clinic you will have to take a form and come to me again.

I honestly said that it would be better to buy a certificate than to lose another day for the sake of the Russian bureaucracy for free, after which I had to endure a condemning glance and listen to the rant that people like me shoot people and put pressure on the country's roads.

Communication with the psychiatrist who saw me for the first time lasted exactly as long as it took to fill out the certificate. And after five minutes I left the office with the firm conviction that I was not crazy, since I had the appropriate certificate.

The next day (I didn’t manage to go round all the medical facilities right away) went to the other end of the city to a drug treatment clinic. For visiting the narcologist here take 100 rubles. But after presenting the certificate of a veteran of military service in the registry, communication with the doctor was free.

The drug doctor was a pretty young woman.

- Drink?

- Year in the string.

- Why are my hands shaking?

- Worried.

Five minutes later, a certificate stating that I was not an alcoholic was in my pocket.

Now, on the basis of the two certificates received, the third certificate was to be received in some special form. It turned out that this certificate is issued only in paid medical centers and, of course, for a fee. The third day went on to find such a center. I appeared in it already in the evening. After paying at the reception (there are no registries) 700 rubles, I went to the office indicated to me. The girl who replaced the ill doctor first checked my eyesight. The letters on the table were blurred, since I forgot my glasses at home.

- You see bad?

- No, that you, I have one hundred percent vision, just tired today.

Registration of the certificate took much longer here, as the girl all the time ran to someone to find out how to fill out this certificate. Finally, a multi-colored certificate, as well as photocopies of licenses of this medical institution for the right to provide medical services replenished my collection, and now I could proceed to the next stage.

There are only three training centers in Moscow where you can pass exams and get a certificate of knowledge of the rules and skills of handling weapons. All three centers are located behind the Moscow ring road. At the very closest they told me that they had a waiting list for examinations scheduled for three months in advance. In the second center I was lucky, I was ready to check it in a month. The influx of those wishing to pass the exams is explained simply. Previously, in order to obtain a license for a hunting weapon, it was enough for the police to present a hunting ticket with a mark of surrender of the hunt minimum. It was even easier for the military - they brought in certificates from their military unit that the service weapon was attached to them. Now everything must pass through the certification center at the training center, even the officers of the special forces of the FSB. Bureaucracy wins over common sense.

EXAM IN GENRE FARS

On the appointed day and time I arrived at the training center. 19 people were gathered for our examination: 3 women and 16 men aged from 22 to 70 years. The women, they said, came solely for noble reasons to help their loved ones. One told a fairy tale that her husband lost his license and, since he is very busy, she will draw up a weapon on himself, and her husband, of course, will use it. The lady simply did not know the Law "On Arms", and therefore she invented this silly history. The second one told an equally fabulous story about the inheritance of the hunting rifle and now wants to save it for her son. And since the son is only 14 years old, she draws up a license for herself. Why would the gun boy 14-year-old, have time in the army to shoot a machine gun - this question put her in a dead end. The third lady was the smartest - she was silent.
I do not understand why women are embarrassed to admit that they want to arm themselves. This is probably a kind of complex.

The center employee who met us at the door wondered if everyone knew the new legislation, and recommended the 30-page directory for 120 rubles. My neighbor “on the desk” - a grandfather with a lost gaze, who was almost forcibly brought to the exam by a daughter, - began to leaf through the reference book. But "study" was not given to him at all.

“I do not understand what is written here,” he complained helplessly to me.

I promised that I will give him answers in the exam.

All were brought to the class, handed out sheets of dough, as on the exam, and left alone. In the leaflet there were 16 questions and 3 answers to each. Of the three answers, it was necessary to choose the right one and put a “bird” in the cage next to it. The people quickly took out 120-ruble directories from bags, briefcases and trunks and began to write off.

It took me about seven minutes to answer all the questions. Then I helped put the crosses in the test for my grandfather, who was sitting to my left. Then he helped the neighbor on the right and the neighbor behind. And yet I had to bored 20 for another minute before the examiner came and collected our exam sheets. Outcome: the theoretical exam was overwhelmed with six people, including three ladies.

The remaining 13 people were taken to a shooting gallery, where five of them did not get headphones. Under the crash of shots in the echoing dash, they tested their eardrums for strength.

The first time I was holding a Beretta sports pistol. The feeling is pleasant. High-quality assembly, all parts are metal, trouble-free operation and precise combat. After our four-shot "Wasp" with "Beretta" you feel really armed. But for everyday wear under the arm heavy and too big. But from it you will not miss. The "Wasp" has a laser sight, but it is useless, no matter how much you aim, the bullets fly along unimaginable paths. Affects the absence of the trunk.

In the dash, I had the firm impression that most of the subjects were dealing with weapons for the first time. “My” grandfather, who, incidentally, has two pistols at home and one carbine, violated all the rules for handling a pistol. When charging store cartridges fan flew in all directions. He dropped the store on the floor (according to the rules it is qualified as careless handling of weapons). Forgot to remove the fuse (press the button on the side). Juggling the bolt, delayed the bolt carrier, and the cartridge was crooked, not hitting the chamber. With a sin in half, he made two control shots at a huge target, hitting the “milk”. After shooting, without removing his finger from the hook and not putting on the fuse, put the gun on the instructor. Of course, not on purpose. He just did not have the skills to safely handle weapons. After that, the instructor sent his grandfather for re-examination, not allowing him to take a shooting test. Re-examination was to take place in two weeks. It is unlikely that grandfather will have time to learn at home the safe handling of weapons.

The overwhelming majority showed not the best skills. For example, in one young man a loaded pistol in his hands simply walked. From excitement, he continually directed the trunk either towards the instructor, or towards the inspector of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. In the end, the gun was taken away from him and sent for a re-take and to drink valerian. But if the person did not try to shoot the instructor on the spot, then the rest of the sins in the shooting gallery were forgiven. In total, six people passed the exam from 13. Of these six, the best "disciples" were two military men and one civilian young man of Caucasian appearance.

Having received the certificate, the next day I went to the licensing department. Having spent several hours in the queue, I presented my arsenal to the inspector for inspection - several pistols and a carbine - and handed over documents for the license renewal. Two weeks later, I spent several hours in a queue to get three licenses, one for each type of firearm.

But this is not the end of walking around the cabinets. According to the new rules, every time, leaving the borders of their constituent entity of the Federation, it is necessary to issue a permit for the export of weapons in the licensing department. It is interesting how those who live, for example, in the Moscow area of ​​Zhulebino, cope with it, and go to work every day across the road to Lyubertsy near Moscow. In the licensing department, I was told that they had never once applied for a permit to move weapons. Apparently, the weapon is at home. And then, why carry it with you? But that is another question.

POWERFULNESS OF POWER

Student Alexander Lokotova, 22 of May of last year, injured a 22-year-old man in the lobby of Tsvetnoy Bulvar metro station — another science: if you were hit in the left cheek, turn the right cheek. It will be Christian. Apparently, the court decided in a Christian way, sentencing the girl to three years in a penal colony. This is an example of how our legislation protects hooligans and criminals. Because if you are attacked with a knife, and you got a gun, this is an excess of self-defense. If a criminal has a pistol in his hands, then the first shot is always his, because if you shoot first it is also an excess of self-defense. Indeed, it is impossible to prove in court whether the criminal had a firm intention to open fire. Finally, in a fight, you must ask the criminal to remain a gentleman and move at least a meter so that you can shoot him according to the rules. It is forbidden to shoot closer than one meter to the target. And one more remarkable rule: after a return shot, bleeding, you must crawl to the nearest police station to draw up a protocol. And if by the beginning of the trial you do not die from a wound, then you may not be acquitted, because you opened fire in a public place, which is strictly prohibited.

After each case of mass executions by criminals of innocent citizens in society, the problem of arming the people is discussed. The shots that sounded this year in Moscow, Belgorod, Volgograd and other cities suggest that a weapon is necessary for self-defense. At least so that the criminal knew that he could get a bullet in return. But will it stop him? After all, going to a crime, a person is always confident in his impunity, otherwise we would not have been shooting, drunken stabbing, fights, corruption and other crimes.

Another thing is that the law, formally punishing a crime, does not actually protect the victim. And before the crime, and after the commission of violence, the object of the attack, that is, the victim, if he, of course, survived, is not protected by anyone.

We have no law that would protect law-abiding citizens from encroachment on their lives and property. Every year thousands of cars, apartments and houses are plundered. Rob someone else does not mean to go to jail. But if the owner, in order to protect his property, put a trap on the robber, brought electricity to the barbed wire around the perimeter of his possession - this is already a crime. Our law protects the criminal, not the victim. And it often happens that it is the victim who finds himself in the role of a criminal, as a student of Lokotova.

The conclusion is that the arming of the people is a harmful idea. Indeed, it seems harmful to our legislators and law enforcement agencies. Because it will be necessary to change the laws and the very attitude towards the protection of society and private property, that is, to take on additional functions, unnecessary worries. And it is known that they do not like to work with us. But the most important thing is to change the psychology of people. And this is even more difficult task. Therefore, in the foreseeable future, the law will be tightened in relation to law-abiding citizens. And the criminals will still kill people. And not necessarily from a firearm.
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185 comments
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  1. fenix57
    fenix57 22 May 2013 05: 35
    18
    Hello! He concluded: In Russia, a law-abiding person is NOT PROTECTED!
    1. Canep
      Canep 22 May 2013 05: 56
      10
      And I made another conclusion: why the heck you need such a weapon. Thanks to the author for an instructive story.
      1. Ejik_026
        Ejik_026 22 May 2013 15: 49
        +1
        Morality:
        1 buy the left trunk, it will be easier.
        2 Always finish off the attacker that you could not identify.
        3 After the blockers of the attackers, hide from the place of attack.
    2. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 22 May 2013 06: 47
      15
      This year, too, for about 3 months with the same torment, I "issued" a license for "Wasp". Mockery of people, otherwise this system, organized in Russia, and you can not name.
      In my eyes, people are over 60 years old, i.e. it is precisely those who cannot physically protect themselves who brought self-defense weapons to licensed police bodies because these bureaucratic obstacles cannot pass.
      But persons of a certain so-called "Caucasian nationality" did it in a herd with an accompanying worker.
      Many people, especially elderly people, simply ceased to receive this "license" without prior arrangement, leaving their weapons for illegal "unlicensed storage". Otherwise, it can be seen with this power, which establishes the impossible conditions for obtaining a license for hunting weapons and self-defense weapons, it is impossible.
      1. poizor
        poizor 22 May 2013 11: 13
        -2
        Oh, you tell it by reading the article not diagonally - out of 20 !!! people passed a simple exam only 6 !!! despite the fact that they wrote off and pointed loaded and cocked weapons at the instructors ...
        in Germany try to do this! and tell us how you pass on Waffenschein!

        But tomorrow these "shooting masters" (who do not know either the legislation or the safety of weapons when handling weapons) crap on the train from the sight of drunken gopniks and imagining themselves to be heroes from a cannon in their pockets may shoot - and who will get this "with shaking hands" ? well if only he shoots his own balls ...

        A man with a gun is not protected by law

        A man must be protected from a moron with a gun!
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 22 May 2013 11: 33
          +3
          Quote: poizor
          but tomorrow these "shooting masters" (who do not know either the legislation or safety when handling weapons)

          Did not read in the article where can I get these skills? That's right, ANYWHERE. There are NO such training centers, there is a dumb, to the limit bureaucratic licensing system. And those who are nevertheless guilty of this, as is customary with us, honestly trying to pass it. Not a legislator, not a bribery official, but again a law-abiding citizen. For that very "person of Caucasian nationality", who has skills in handling weapons, obviously did not visit a shooting range ...
          1. poizor
            poizor 22 May 2013 11: 47
            -3
            Quote: Misantrop
            Did not read in the article where can I get these skills?

            Well, how would you work out these skills by taking a couple of hours with the center instructor (who took the exam) - is this a genius?
            go to the shooting range on the bench, etc. shooting, in the company of hunters - you also have to be brilliant !? and nothing else ...
            those who want find and train.

            Quote: Misantrop
            There are NO such training centers

            Google says the opposite ...
            http://theobject.ru/cost/
            I foresee cries about "and I don't have such a center in Muhodransk to Pachama !?" laughing
            but here I will surprise you - and in the same USA, not every school has instructors teaching how to handle weapons!


            Quote: Misantrop
            There is a dumb, to the limit bureaucratic licensing system.

            which is held with a bang by completely left-wing and knowing nothing and inept people, as can be seen from the article ...

            Quote: Misantrop
            And it’s precisely those who are still honestly trying to get through it, who are to blame for this.

            as you can see, those who honestly pass it have no problems. I will not say anything about all the stories of the "honest author" about buying the necessary information.
            Here is how many of 20 people in the exam help stupidly bought?

            Quote: Misantrop
            For that very "person of Caucasian nationality" who has skills in handling weapons, obviously did not visit a shooting range ...

            So what? what is the conclusion from this? for me there is only one thing - the "efficiency" of the policemen's work in those very regions where it is "normal" to walk with a weapon ...
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 22 May 2013 12: 21
              0
              Quote: poizor
              which is held with a bang by completely left-wing and knowing nothing and inept people, as can be seen from the article ...

              Right. These people are trained on IT. Those. they have free time and perseverance to run around their offices, pay at each window, strive not for what is really needed, but what has become prestigious (i.e. not everyone has it). What they grew up grew. But on the other hand, this system has adequately cut off the weapon from the weapon almost DEAD. The whole calculation is precisely that he will spit and give up the legal method. Moreover, as a result of all this, he will receive in his hands not a weapon, but an evil parody of him. And WITHOUT RIGHT APPROPRIATE APPLICATION
              1. poizor
                poizor 22 May 2013 12: 41
                +1
                Quote: Misantrop
                But on the other hand, this system has adequately cut off the weapon from the weapon almost DEAD.

                oh, okay! to get a VU you "ruin" much more time and energy and money - and nothing, do not cry.
                and as can be seen from the article - adequately without problems, spending a week of time, received permission for the next year and a half. and not for any nonsense - but for a firearms!

                Quote: Misantrop
                The whole calculation is precisely that he will spit and give up the legal method.

                but it seems to me that this is even very correct, especially in relation to the "quarantine", who received a double-barreled / Berdan gun by inheritance from a grandfather from the village - let it be better if they pushed around to hand over the gun, and not keep it in a wardrobe with a phony letter.

                Quote: Misantrop
                Moreover, as a result of all this, he will receive in his hands not a weapon, but an evil parody of him.

                yeah THREE !!! the trunk (one of which is a short barrel) is the norm in Moscow ...

                Quote: Misantrop
                And WITHOUT RIGHT APPROPRIATE APPLICATION

                and who is the judge?
                described by me crap office plankton in the train, scorching with closed eyes towards (God forbid) the "offender"?

                ps here they told me that like all these "exams" are passed by people who have time and money for this - and as a result, we have that out of 20 people who have passed "all circles of hell" and reached the exam only THREE !! ! more or less confidently handle weapons ...
                I won’t even mention theory and practice in the field of the legislative framework - it is limited to writing off answers from the training manual ...

                tell me, do you really want the people described in article 17 to receive firearms in their hands and carry them (God forbid) with them? how adequate will they use weapons?
            2. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 21: 14
              +1
              Quote: poizor
              Well, how would you work out these skills by taking a couple of hours with the center instructor (who took the exam) - is this a genius?

              No, this is for the instructor to take care that the rules for handling weapons are checked up, not taking into account the fact that they wrote some kind of test. For safety precautions and nofik ...
              Quote: poizor
              go to the shooting range on the bench, etc. shooting, in the company of hunters - you also have to be brilliant !? and nothing else ...

              Quote: poizor
              I foresee cries about "and I don't have such a center in Muhodransk to Pachama !?" but even then I will surprise you - and in the USA, not every school has an instructor teaching how to use weapons!

              You will still smile ... but in my "Mukhodransk" they just do not exist ... Despite the fact that 1/3 million inhabitants live in this "Mukhodransk" and it is considered a large industrial city.
              Quote: poizor
              those who want find and train.

              Yes ... we have here one noticeable spot in three stops by train and an hour's walk through the gully ... This is very convenient, especially in winter.
              Quote: poizor
              which is held with a bang by completely left-wing and knowing nothing and inept people, as can be seen from the article ...

              Re-read the article in order to dispel your delusions - those who do not know and who do not know just did not go through it. Although this does not exempt her from the epithets "stupid" and "bureaucratic", justly used by her comrade.
              Quote: poizor
              as you can see, those who honestly pass it have no problems. I will not say anything about all the stories of the "honest author" about buying the necessary information.

              But buying certificates to the author in the negative - you have to be honest to the end.
              1. poizor
                poizor 22 May 2013 21: 22
                -2
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                No, this is for the instructor to take care that the rules for handling weapons are checked up, not taking into account the fact that they wrote some kind of test. For safety and nafik.

                when passing the exam at the traffic police at the university, did the admission committee teach you? when passing exams at university?
                do not invent nonsense;)

                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                You will still smile ... but in my "Mukhodransk" they just do not exist ... Despite the fact that 1/3 million inhabitants live in this "Mukhodransk" and it is considered a large industrial city.

                in mine, for example, there is a regional shooting range, DOSAF, where I went through all this 20 years ago. but at the same time, you do not want to get anything - but WEAPON, and therefore must undergo the necessary training. how and where - you can go on vacation to Moscow and take courses.

                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Yes ... we have here one noticeable spot in three stops by train and an hour's walk through the gully ... This is very convenient, especially in winter.

                hold the pistol confidently and practice "don't point at a person" at home, on a toy pistol. there is nothing daunting in this.

                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Reread the article in order to dispel your delusions - those who do not know anything and who are not able to have just passed through it.

                the fact that they were admitted to the exams is complete! this is not an exam "how to knit socks for your beloved grandmother", but an exam for the possession of a FIRE WEAPON !!!
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 23: 51
                  +1
                  Quote: poizor
                  when passing the exam at the traffic police at the university, did the admission committee teach you? when passing exams at the university? do not invent nonsense;

                  Do not confuse x ... uh, God's gift with fried eggs. Instructor creature is gentle and very value his freedom and life. Therefore, safety instructions for handling weapons receive all caught in a shooting range or at a shooting range, regardless of ranks and position. For the rule. By the way, I treat the scene in the dash described in the article with great skepticism. In this situation, the instructor is simply obligated to control all the actions of the shooters, not allowing the situations described in the article. Otherwise, this is not an instructor, but an empty place that does not value either one’s life or someone else’s.
                  1. poizor
                    poizor 22 May 2013 23: 55
                    -1
                    Quote: Rakti-Kali
                    Instructor creature is gentle and very value his freedom and life. Therefore, safety instructions for handling weapons are received by everyone who has fallen into the shooting range or at the shooting range, regardless of rank or position.

                    ahh, I thought about training ... and you just say a squiggle under a piece of TB paper!
                    and say this about people who came to take the LAST test before owning a firearm ...

                    Quote: Rakti-Kali
                    In this situation, the instructor is simply obligated to control all the actions of the shooters, not allowing the situations described in the article. Otherwise, this is not an instructor, but an empty place that does not value either one’s life or someone else’s.

                    well, it's the same thing you wrote about training at a driving school ...
                    1. Rakti-kali
                      Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 00: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: poizor
                      ahh, I thought about training ... and you just talk about a squiggle under a piece of paper on TB! and say this about people who came to take the LAST test before owning a firearm ...

                      NOT. I’m not talking about squiggles, but about the employee’s performance of his direct duties. And not about those who pass the exam, but about the employee of the shooting gallery. And this employee MUST conduct safety training and MUST monitor the implementation of the safety rules. Regardless of who is on the dash, there is a gang of firing shots or sportsmen from the FPSR.
                      1. poizor
                        poizor 23 May 2013 00: 17
                        -1
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        NOT. I’m not talking about squiggles, but about the employee’s performance of his direct duties.

                        Well, so you see, using the example of this article, how it "works". and want to make it even easier to get a firearm?
                      2. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 15: 29
                        0
                        I want to have the right to acquire not just a firearm, but a short-barreled rifled firearm. And I am in favor of toughening the rules for obtaining a weapon permit, but for facilitating the procedure for obtaining this permit. Not even facilitating the procedure, but rather optimizing it - so that the "one window" rule is in effect - so that in one place you can go to doctors, get quality training and pass an exam. And not to rush about as if bitten in * the city and the region, collecting information, looking for a shooting gallery, and standing in line for many hours.
                      3. poizor
                        poizor 23 May 2013 15: 37
                        0
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        And do not rush about as if * bitten around the city and region, collecting information, looking for a shooting gallery, and standing for many hours in line.

                        Well, what can you do what is the fate of "hochukh" in all countries? RF is no exception.
                        but you, if you want - organize for your hard-earned shooting gallery, hire instructors, doctors - and provide services. all the more so in your city there’s nothing of this! make money, don’t you?
                        I give a business idea, use it!
                      4. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 24 May 2013 12: 25
                        0
                        Quote: poizor
                        Well, what can you do what is the fate of "hochukh" in all countries? The Russian Federation is no exception here, but if you want, organize a shooting gallery for your money, hire instructors, doctors, and provide services. especially since there is none of this in your city! You will earn some dough, don’t give a business idea, use it!

                        They were late, I have been sick with this business idea for 12 years.
          2. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 23: 59
            0
            Quote: poizor
            in my example there is a regional shooting range, DOSAF

            What a score.
            Quote: poizor
            but at the same time, you do not want to get anything - but WEAPON, and therefore must undergo the necessary training. how and where - you can go on vacation to Moscow and take courses.

            First, why so much pathos? Second, what is this nonsense? So, in order to learn how to own a car, I don't need to go anywhere, but in order to use weapons I have to go through half the country? But what if I have not had a vacation for 11 years and is not expected in the near future? Or that a car enthusiast is somewhat "equal" than a person who wants not only to own a weapon, but also to learn how to use it correctly?
            1. poizor
              poizor 23 May 2013 00: 15
              -1
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              What a score.

              it's not about luck. I don’t see any problems going to normal specialists and undergoing qualified training. yes it will cost a couple of hundred UE more, but for yourself, not for uncle?

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              So in order to learn how to own a car, I don’t need to go anywhere, but in order to get through arms halfway through the country?

              well, the reality is this. and in Europe, not every city in you will pass the training and pass the exam. in Germany, for example, for this you need to not only spend years in the shooter club, but also take courses in various cities, simply because there are not so many instructors, and they conduct the corresponding courses once a year.

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              But what if I have not had a vacation for 11 years and is not expected in the near future?

              then maybe you should think, do you really need a trunk?

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Or that a car enthusiast is somewhat "equal" than a person who wants not only to own a weapon, but also to learn how to use it correctly?

              Yes this is true. and nothing can be done about it - and you need to study somewhere and pass exams, and buy a trunk ...
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 15: 33
                0
                Quote: poizor
                it's not about luck. I don’t see any problems going to normal specialists and undergoing qualified training. yes it will cost a couple of hundred UE more, but for yourself, not for uncle?

                Have you ever tried to earn this "couple of hundred EU" yourself?
                Quote: poizor
                then maybe you should think, do you really need a trunk?

                And where is the relationship between my vacation and your offer?
                1. poizor
                  poizor 23 May 2013 15: 39
                  -1
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  Have you ever tried to earn this "couple of hundred EU" yourself?

                  No, of course, they are rattling in my tree, I water only after two days.

                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  And where is the relationship between my vacation and your offer?

                  if in 11 years you haven’t found time to receive documents, and in these 11 years no one has killed you - maybe something is wrong in your philharmonic society?
                2. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 24 May 2013 12: 29
                  0
                  Quote: poizor
                  No, of course, they are rattling in my tree, I water only after two days.

                  Will you send a seedling?
                  Quote: poizor
                  if in 11 years you haven’t found time to receive documents, and in these 11 years no one has killed you - maybe something is wrong in your philharmonic society?

                  And what did I say that I did not find?
  • poizor
    poizor 22 May 2013 12: 05
    -1
    Cho, who put the minuses recognized themselves in the described character? well, that's right, think about whether you want such a dick to ride next to you in the train, in the next car, thumped at the next table in the bar, stood on the first-September line of your children at school ...
    1. Midshipman
      Midshipman 22 May 2013 14: 55
      0
      I have the impression that you associate yourself with these "heroes". Probably your guts are thin and you do not answer for yourself from here these stupid fears.
      1. poizor
        poizor 22 May 2013 15: 04
        0
        Yes, I associate myself with these heroes. with passers-by at the metro station, where a drunken wet-shot shot at the back of a lying teenager ...
        and I absolutely do not want to catch a bullet on the way from work / to work, seeing off the children to school, from such an "adequate booze", which seemed to her that her CSI fell and I need to shoot a couple of times ...

        and yes, I regularly go in for sports, and I have a phone to call a dress.
  • d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 22 May 2013 12: 16
    +5
    Quote: poizor
    A man must be protected from a moron with a gun!

    Totally agree with you! Prohibit traumatic weapons, PROHIBIT!
    Most of the owners do not take it up as a weapon, but a dangerous toy. If it is applied in accordance with the current law of the Russian Federation, then the effect, as a weapon of self-defense, approaches "0", and even harmful because the person thinks he is protected. If effective, this is a violation of the Federal Law of the Russian Federation and criminal prosecution (bandits, black * e and others will pay off even if they are to blame. Conclusion, only short-barreled weapons with a change in the Federal Law of the Russian Federation on self-defense are ALWAYS PROTECTED IN AN ATTACK!
    1. poizor
      poizor 22 May 2013 12: 24
      -2
      Quote: d.gksueyjd
      Conclusion, only a short-barreled weapon with a change in the Federal Law of the Russian Federation on self-defense-PROTECTED WHEN ATTACKING, ALWAYS RIGHT!

      but didn’t try to do sports, for example? and keep the ponto cutter drunk?
      otherwise, not only you are so smart, and you may be the first to get a bullet, although they will run into you - and the one who has shot will be "disobedient" according to the law ...
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 21: 22
        +2
        Quote: poizor
        but didn’t try to do sports, for example?

        How far will you run away with prostheses? Or with asthma? Or being 70 years old commercials?
        1. poizor
          poizor 22 May 2013 21: 25
          -2
          with these symptoms, the gun will not help.
          and with asthma and at 70 years old - I know those who will run away, and will return back with the patrol. but such units, and the barrel want quite healthy and young figures.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 00: 13
            +2
            Quote: poizor
            with these symptoms, the gun will not help.

            “God made people strong and weak. Samuel Colt made them equal. ”
            By the way, about the symptoms - I have a friend, a former senior sergeant, a former sapper, such a healthy man, but there is a problem - he has no legs just below the knees. In your opinion, if they suddenly attack him, the gun will not help him? I have a friend - the CCM in shooting from an air rifle, with a spinal injury due to which she moves on her legs with great difficulty. Won't the gun help her with her symptoms either? And nothing, that from the PM she shoots better than me? And faster. And this is from the "Standing, pistol in a holster" position, while standing on a crutch.
            Believe me, you should not consider those around you a stupid paralytic cattle only capable of "shooting your own eggs" - as you wrote. A short-barreled rifled firearm is a tool that allows a person to preserve their health and life in a difficult situation.
            1. poizor
              poizor 23 May 2013 00: 22
              -2
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              “God made people strong and weak. Samuel Colt made them equal. ”

              this is just an advertising slogan, no more.
              did the gun make black and white equal? not...
              and the historical reality is that, contrary to the movie novels about the Wild West, a couple of killer guys with pistols have always been "earlier" than everyone else. and the order in the city was kept by hired shooters of railway and trading companies ... but not by the owners of revolvers from ordinary townspeople.
              By the way - before Colt there were almost without exception guns - and what did it change?
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 15: 42
                +1
                Quote: poizor
                this is just an advertising slogan, no more.

                This advertising slogan makes more sense than all the words you said here.
                1. poizor
                  poizor 23 May 2013 15: 49
                  -1
                  so, equalized Colt blacks and whites?
                  laughing
            2. poizor
              poizor 23 May 2013 10: 56
              -2
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              such a healthy man ... if they suddenly attack him, the gun will not help?

              no, it won't help, it's stupid because he will be knocked out first - or do you expect the situation "do you respect me?"

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              And nothing, that from the PM she shoots better than me? And faster. And this is from the "Standing, pistol in a holster" position, while standing on a crutch.

              all this sounds great in the shooting range - with the holster at the ready and the crutch where necessary. only in life "suddenly" it will turn out that the trunk is in the purse, and the purse must be opened with two hands ... and in one hand there is a crutch ...
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 15: 47
                +2
                Quote: poizor
                no, it won't help, it's stupid because he will be knocked out first - or do you expect the situation "do you respect me?"

                Well, you and the storyteller ... Have you seen shots of execution in a shopping center in Ukraine? There, the criminal alone fought simultaneously with THREE GUARDS. And killed them. Shot from a pistol. Why couldn’t they cut him down? Cutting down a person is actually not as simple as in the action movies.
                1. poizor
                  poizor 23 May 2013 15: 51
                  -2
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  Have you seen shots of execution in a shopping center in Ukraine?

                  no, not seen.

                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  There, the criminal alone fought simultaneously with THREE GUARDS.

                  I don’t know of a single security guard who would hit a "client" over the head with a bat ...

                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  Cutting down a person is actually not as simple as in the action movies.

                  that is yes. especially if a person sits at home, and does not stray at night in search of adventure ...
                2. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 24 May 2013 12: 22
                  0
                  Quote: poizor
                  no, not seen.

                  look - enlighten.
                  Quote: poizor
                  I don’t know of a single security guard who would hit a "client" over the head with a bat ...

                  But I don’t know a single normal person who will let a stranger with a bat. If you have problems with a critical assessment of the situation, this does not mean that everyone else has them.
                  Quote: poizor
                  that is yes. especially if a person sits at home, and does not stray at night in search of adventure ...

                  Firstly, a person can be attacked not only at night.
                  Secondly, it gets dark very early in winter.
                  Thirdly, in the north of the Russian Federation, the night lasts six months.
                  Fourth, people have an objective need to go out at night, for example, in a round-the-clock pharmacy.
                  Fifth and last, I am already tired of your bickering in the style of "daddy, where is the sea?", If you have no arguments, you shouldn't write anything, just for the sake of arguing.
              2. jumpmaster
                jumpmaster 24 May 2013 05: 59
                0
                Everything is very simple! A striker in his right mind and not in the state of an affect - ALWAYS has an advantage over the defender, and this advantage depends directly on professionalism as one — and the other!
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 22 May 2013 22: 19
      +2
      Quote: poizor
      but didn’t try to do sports, for example? and keep the ponto cutter drunk

      And what, in this modern world, such basics already require special justification? That the nobles of the past, that EVEN the gopniks of the end of the last century, knew for sure what their words were answer. For the modern tolerant electorate, is this news? Are you accustomed to being rude to everyone with impunity?
  • suslopha
    suslopha 22 May 2013 19: 36
    +2
    that’s the trouble that they don’t hammer, that trauma is a weapon! and it’s impossible to do anything else but harm to their health!
  • Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 21: 19
    +2
    Quote: d.gksueyjd
    Totally agree with you! Prohibit traumatic weapons, FORBID! Most of the owners do not think of it as a weapon, but is a dangerous toy. If it is applied in accordance with the current law of the Russian Federation, then the effect, as a weapon of self-defense, approaches "0", and even harmful because the person thinks he is protected. If effective, this is a violation of the Federal Law of the Russian Federation and criminal prosecution (bandits, black * e and others will pay off even if they are to blame. Conclusion, only short-barreled weapons with a change in the Federal Law of the Russian Federation on self-defense are ALWAYS PROTECTED IN AN ATTACK!

    Gold words. It's a pity that I can put only one "+".
  • Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 21: 01
    +2
    Quote: poizor
    Oh, you tell it by reading the article not diagonally - out of 20 !!! people passed a simple exam only 6 !!! despite the fact that they wrote off and pointed loaded and cocked weapons at the instructors ...

    You are inattentive, those who cheated and were not able to handle weapons were weeded out.
    Quote: poizor
    A man must be protected from a moron with a gun!

    That's right, and your own gun will be the best defense, since the licensing authorities do not want to give up their gesheft and continue to issue permits to mountain sheep for a small fraction.
    1. poizor
      poizor 22 May 2013 21: 12
      -2
      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      You are inattentive, those who cheated and were not able to handle weapons were weeded out.

      weeded out those who:
      1. Before that I collected all the certificates
      2. could not even write off
      3. even writing off, did not have any skills with the gun!

      and at the same time they talk about the "difficulties" of obtaining permission !!! not on some bullshit, but on firearms!
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 22 May 2013 22: 22
        +1
        Quote: poizor
        on firearms!
        Will the difference between trauma and firearm reach you at least one day (with repeated reminders)? Or is it beyond your mind?

        And these "resolvers", by the way, that all this was heaped together, concerned only with their newly organized extra work
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 23: 32
        +2
        Quote: poizor
        weeded out those who: 1. before that I collected all the references2. could not even write off 3. even having written off, I had no skills in handling a pistol! and at the same time they talk about the "difficulties" of obtaining permission !!! not on some bullshit, but on firearms!

        That is, screening at the stage of verification of practical application - did its job. I didn’t allow people who could not handle it to own weapons. It's good. The bad thing is that obtaining certificates, and other actions that need to be done to obtain permission to own weapons, in the form in which they exist now, - firstly - do not guarantee that people will not be granted permission, and secondly - it makes it very difficult to obtain permission just law-abiding citizens.
        Quote: poizor
        not for any garbage, but for firearms!

        Why so expressive? A weapon is a tool. Yes, dangerous, yes, requiring certain knowledge and skills to use it, but just a tool. The car is also a high-risk tool, but the training system for using it works quite stably and successfully (although obtaining certificates and passing an exam is almost the same trouble as with weapons), so why not organize a training system for using firearms like a system driving schools?
        1. poizor
          poizor 22 May 2013 23: 44
          -1
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          firstly, they do not guarantee that people are inadequate from issuing permits; secondly, it is much more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain permission.

          so even this is suggested to "simplify" even more ...

          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Why so expressive? A weapon is a tool.

          this is just an excuse. because a weapon is a tool for killing, and in no other way can it be used ...

          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          The car is also a high-risk tool, but the training system for using it works quite stably and successfully

          in the Russian Federation !?
          if so, why is the whole world wondering at the total installation of DVRs? or StopHamu?
          where in the world is there still driving on the sidewalks, being ahead of the road, "training" on highways, "the permitted speed of 69 km / h in the city?
          and you want the same thing with firearms?
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 00: 38
            +2
            Quote: poizor
            so even this is suggested to "simplify" even more ...

            You are wrong. They do not need to simplify the rules or change the criteria there, they demand to streamline the procedure and abandon discriminatory rules. Agree - it is much more convenient to undergo examination by a psychologist, narcologist and optometrist in one place than in three different places, and even when the schedule for their admission is the same. Agree silly to require a person to obtain permission to move weapons across the territory of the Russian Federation.
            1. poizor
              poizor 23 May 2013 11: 00
              -2
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              discriminatory

              and who discriminates against you? on what grounds?

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Agree - it is much more convenient to undergo examination by a psychologist, narcologist and optometrist in one place than in three different places, and even when the schedule for their admission is the same.

              of course better. for you. and if it was beneficial for each clinic, then in each clinic you could go through a commission, no?

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Agree silly to require a person to obtain permission to move weapons across the territory of the Russian Federation.

              this applies to most civilized countries.
          2. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 00: 44
            +2
            Quote: poizor
            this is just an excuse. because a weapon is a tool for killing, and in no other way can it be used ...

            Oh well, no need to dramatize. It doesn’t kill weapons - it kills a person. Any tool can be used for evil, you can kill with a teaspoon - will we ban teaspoons?
            Quote: poizor
            in the Russian Federation!? If this is so, why is the whole world surprised at the general installation of DVRs? or StopHamu? where in the world there is still sidewalk driving, sidewalking, "training" on highways, "speed limit 69 km / h in the city? and you want the same thing with firearms?"

            What is the same thing? Knowing that when you try to use a weapon for illegal purposes, you can get a bullet from an accidental passerby. Do you risk using your gun to commit an offense?
            1. poizor
              poizor 23 May 2013 11: 07
              -2
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Oh well, no need to dramatize. It doesn’t kill weapons - it kills a person.

              and again an excuse. without a gunshot the readiness threshold, and the chances of killing are much higher. the absence of a firearm in the same car disassembly saved more than one life and not one pair of wheels.

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Any tool can be used for evil, you can kill with a teaspoon - will we ban teaspoons?

              still waiting for an explanation of how weapons can be used in a different way (for example, to prevent a seagull) than harming life and health ...

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              What is the same thing?

              As you can see, inadequate, mentally ill and simply incapable of driving people freely get with the system of driving schools of VU.

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Knowing that when you try to use a weapon for illegal purposes, you can get a bullet from an accidental passerby. Do you risk using your gun to commit an offense?

              and now you can get it from a shocker and an injury - does this stop someone?
              and if you want a comparison with Auto - what will it look like in the story with the barrel "scratched someone else's car"? but this happens all the time ...
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 24 May 2013 16: 30
                0
                Quote: poizor
                and again an excuse. without a gunshot the readiness threshold, and the chances of killing are much higher.

                Absolutely wrong. As international practice shows in countries where the acquisition and carrying of short-barreled firearms is allowed, the level of violent crime is reduced.
                Quote: poizor
                the absence of a firearm in the same car disassembly saved more than one life and not one pair of wheels.

                Delusion. Gundomimeters are used quite often during disassembly in car accidents, and precisely because the owners of this under-equipment consider them as extension cords hu ... uh-uh-uh-uh ... hands. All due to the fact that this crap is positioned as a "non-lethal" means, a kind of fists on a stick (despite the fact that it is quite possible to kill a man from a hand-gun).
                On the other hand, if it is allowed to purchase a short barrel, this will greatly limit the desire to swing the barrel, because the ability to get a bullet from your opponent when trying to threaten him with a weapon will cool even the hottest head.
              2. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 24 May 2013 17: 45
                0
                Quote: poizor
                still waiting for an explanation of how weapons can be used in a different way (for example, to prevent a seagull) than harming life and health ...

                As soon as you tell me how to mix sugar in a seagull with a chainsaw, or will we also ban chainsaws?
                Quote: poizor
                As you can see, inadequate, mentally ill and simply incapable of driving people freely get with the system of driving schools of VU.

                Not without this, but firstly, the control system is weaker there, and such cases are sporadic, or can you give relevant statistics refuting this?
                Quote: poizor
                and now you can get it from the shocker

                This is not even funny. Of course, they can still scare stray dogs, it’s almost impossible to use as a weapon of self-defense, unless you have special training in hand-to-hand combat, and if there is one, then why do you need a shocker?
                Quote: poizor
                and trauma - is this stopping someone?

                Again very funny. Due to its features and rules of use, a gang-gunner is often not taken seriously by attackers. Often it is perceived simply as an extension cord hu ... uh-uh ... hands.
                Quote: poizor
                and if you want a comparison with Auto - what will it look like in the story with the barrel "scratched someone else's car"? but this happens all the time ...

                The parties will either politely agree on damages on the spot, or they will call the traffic police. Korotkostvol in contrast to the gunners greatly enhances the sense of responsibility. And the likelihood of receiving an armed rebuff with inadequate behavior increases this sense of responsibility by an order of magnitude.
  • Apologet insane
    Apologet insane 22 May 2013 05: 47
    14
    Hmm, if you take away weapons from all law-abiding citizens, only villains will remain armed.
    1. suslopha
      suslopha 22 May 2013 19: 37
      +1
      or maybe policemen to work?
    2. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 21: 23
      +2
      Quote: Apologet Insane
      Hmm, if you take away weapons from all law-abiding citizens, only villains will remain armed.

      You very accurately described the current situation.
      1. poizor
        poizor 22 May 2013 21: 28
        -3
        how will we distinguish the "defending" from the bukhovo murderer? there is a corpse, and a story about "protection".
        what's next?
    3. jumpmaster
      jumpmaster 24 May 2013 06: 04
      0
      The way it is! And probably in the percentage ratio of villains with weapons much more!
  • pinecone
    pinecone 22 May 2013 05: 53
    +6
    Courts are on the side of those in power and criminals whom the judges themselves fear.
  • Egen
    Egen 22 May 2013 05: 59
    -2
    I still had a conclusion, made 250 years ago: "a bullet is a fool, a bayonet is a fine fellow" :) It seems that there was enough gas license for edged weapons? Sorry, I'm behind the times, I will renew my license only after a year and a half :)
  • Fox
    Fox 22 May 2013 06: 04
    +3
    even in Moscow, the certificates were quite inexpensive ... I had to list more than 2t.r. without bribes in Tolyatti! and so, on the topic, I remember one "authority" who said: "why do you need a legal barrel ?! buy a clean one, put it in safe and let it lie ... you will need it, you will use it. then you will throw it off ... but what am I teaching the opera? ... "golden words.
  • waisson
    waisson 22 May 2013 06: 13
    0
    there is another quick way to get permission is to go to the police
  • ded10041948
    ded10041948 22 May 2013 06: 51
    13
    The article is an exact copy of my adventures when extending a permit for "traumatic". You understand that the author is a plus for her. But explain to an old idiot with half a century of experience in handling weapons (from the age of 14 he was engaged in shooting, master of sports of the USSR in bullet shooting, 22 years of service in the Armed Forces, shot himself to disgust, 30 years of possession of a hunting weapon, after leaving the army - 15 years in protection), why should I, the owner of "Streamer 1014", prove that I can handle the "Saiga", which I never had and will never have ?! Why I, a law-abiding citizen, find myself defenseless before this law and must, like a ram on a string, wait patiently until some gangster bastard hits me and only then, having received a (possibly fatal) wound, I have the right to use a weapon against him, having accurately calculated at the same time, the adequacy of the answer (God forbid the investigator decides that I have exceeded self-defense measures!). Why should I carry with me a whole package of "all waste paper", and any "" walks almost with a machine gun? Whom does the state protect? Or is it protecting itself from us?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 22 May 2013 07: 34
      16
      Quote: ded10041948
      But explain to an old idiot with half a century of experience in handling weapons (from the age of 14 he was engaged in shooting, master of sports of the USSR in bullet shooting, 22 years of service in the Armed Forces, shot himself to disgust, 30 years of possession of a hunting weapon, after leaving the army - 15 years in protection), why should I, the owner of "Streamer 1014", prove that I can handle the "Saiga", which I have never had and will never have ?! Why I, a law-abiding citizen, find myself defenseless before this law and must, like a ram on a string, wait patiently until some gangster bastard hits me and only then, having received a (possibly fatal) wound, I have the right to use a weapon against him, having accurately calculated at the same time, the adequacy of the answer (God forbid, the investigator decides that I have exceeded self-defense measures!). Why should I carry with me a whole package of "all waste paper", and any "" walks almost with a machine gun? Whom does the state protect? Or is it protecting itself from us?

      Then, that our valiant deputies believe that if you will be so tormented when applying for a weapon permit, then you will receive the coveted license less inadequate. Now it remains to come up with a filter so that less inadequate gets into the Duma.
      1. huut
        huut 22 May 2013 10: 49
        -2
        Quote: Vladimirets
        then less inadequate will receive the coveted license.

        Yes, read this forum, so in some topics every second is ready to shoot someone - from a neighbor to a minister. Well, just one adequate everywhere)

        It is not consciousness that needs to be changed, but nerves that are healed, and then weapons are required.
        1. Midshipman
          Midshipman 22 May 2013 15: 03
          +2
          Do not be alarmed, you are so inadequate. 99% of those present, probably including you, said in their hearts to their child "I will beat you" and what to do after that - change consciousness or cure nerves?
      2. Ghenxnumx
        Ghenxnumx 22 May 2013 14: 38
        +3
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Then, that our valiant deputies believe that if you will be so tormented when applying for a weapon permit, then you will receive the coveted license less inadequate. Now it remains to come up with a filter so that less inadequate gets into the Duma.

        What kind of filter are you talking about if you vote for one person, and another one falls into Duru, but they reassure those who have voted that he is from the same party am
  • 120352
    120352 22 May 2013 07: 26
    +5
    Obviously, those who block the ability of the population to arm themselves in the absence of a real police force and the growth of crime defend the interests of this crime and werewolves in uniform. Probably, the time has come to arm ourselves against all permits and replace those who are not working for society, but those who work for themselves or for bandits "law enforcement" bodies. There is nothing to reform there! One rot!
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 22 May 2013 08: 25
    12
    In the USSR, there was a poster: "My militia protects me" and when it stopped taking care of us it was renamed the police. So defend yourself as best you can.
    1. Straus_zloy
      Straus_zloy 22 May 2013 13: 08
      -1
      You yourself and protect yourself as you can.

  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 22 May 2013 08: 33
    -6
    Another fool from the Hansa?
    Typical verbal diarrhea about the fact that the offender is afraid to get a bullet. As if the criminal in 100% of cases, the attacker was not the first to have time to nail the victim before he tried to pull the barrel. And even during mass slaughter in the US armed with eggs, it was not possible to kill the criminal before the arrival of the police, simply because normal people do not carry barrels outside the combat zone.

    At the same time, the author himself described that the population cannot hold a pistol in their hands. And in what way are these ladies, making out "a gun for their son" going to defend themselves? But the very presence of weapons in the house creates the preconditions that they will be used, maybe drunk, or maybe for suicide. In the latter case, it should be borne in mind that a person may be ready for suicide for a very limited time, if an attempt is prevented, then on the trail. day he will calm down in 95% of cases. But if he has a barrel by his side ... A bullet in his mouth, brains on the wall and you won't have time to feel anything, unlike other methods of suicide available in everyday life, such as jumping from a window.

    Regarding the courts, it seems to fools that everything is so simple, they attacked me, I shot, I'm right. But go and see who attacked whom, criminals can talk about self-defense too.
    1. Middle-brother
      Middle-brother 22 May 2013 09: 28
      -2
      Quote: Avenger711
      Another fool from the Hansa?

      Your point of view has the right to exist, but "ganzu" you are in vain like this ...
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 22 May 2013 10: 13
        +2
        I'm sure that the inhabitants of the "Hansa" are 90% those who need a barrel only for show-off, because it's kind of cool and stylish, well, sometimes you can still shoot at the banks. As far as I understand, the situation is about the same in the United States, there is a cult of weapons, but there is no sense. 99% of people not connected with the army, police and criminals have almost zero chances of getting into trouble, where the gun can theoretically help, and the threat is really such that 12 would be better off condemning me than 6 incurred, practically zero. Myths about an armed people have long been nothing more than myths, since military weapons have gone many parsecs ahead of everyday weapons over the past 100 years and a motorized rifle battalion will crush any crowd with Kalash.

        Well, since it’s problematic to get the trunk, such articles are written, although this one already shows that God forbid us from the trunk in every house. I do not deny the stupidity in our bureaucracy, but damn it, the people want easy trunks and not have any problems with it. However, if the control is really established, and each doctor and instructor will be responsible for the issued certificate, then they will drive you no less than now. So for the state there is no sense in creating a problem for itself in the form of ensuring total control over the weapon, when you can simply limit its carrying.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 22 May 2013 11: 44
          +1
          Quote: Avenger711
          I do not deny the stupidity in our bureaucracy, but damn it, the people want easy trunks and not have any problems with it.

          Did you understand what you wrote? Replace "trunk" with "car". If instead learning at a driving school and studying rights will there be one stupid running around in offices for information, will the traffic situation improve?

          The people want to LEARN to handle weapons and gain an opportunity for self-defense. Instead, they slip a bunch of hemorrhoids with squeezing money. And at the same time they are surprised that there are no skills of what they DO NOT LEARN TO handle ...
          1. poizor
            poizor 22 May 2013 11: 58
            -1
            Quote: Misantrop
            Replace "trunk" with "car". If, instead of teaching at a driving school and learning rights, there is one dull running around the offices for information, will the situation on the roads improve?

            so we just see that the "driving culture" on the roads, with "effective policemen" is growing from year to year, VUs are bought, and in driving schools preparatory ... to park, to "teach" on the motorway?

            Quote: Misantrop
            People want to learn how to handle weapons

            it's not funny anymore! the article just says that the nifig people do not want to learn how to handle weapons, nor to learn the legislative framework - but stupidly buys certificates and credits! all!

            Quote: Misantrop
            to gain an opportunity for self-defense.

            Well, yes, don’t go to self-defense courses, tearing your ass off the couch, don’t start playing sports (for example, running 50 meters and a mustache, gopniks nervously smoking in the gateway), don’t buy a stun gun - you just need a trunk! laughing

            Quote: Misantrop
            Instead, they slip a bunch of hemorrhoids with squeezing money.

            as you can see, this hemorrhage lasts a maximum of a week and a half years ... this is if you do not buy certificates ...

            Quote: Misantrop
            And at the same time they are surprised that there are no skills of what they DO NOT LEARN TO treat.

            Sorry, those who come to the exam (any notice) should themselves prepare for this exam. how to do this is at the discretion of the examiner. you can at the shooting range, you can at the CHOP, you can at the school of the Ministry of Internal Affairs ... there would be a desire!
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 22 May 2013 12: 29
              0
              Quote: poizor
              don't buy a stun gun
              At least one and a half thousand hryvnias a fine (6000 rubles) in the best scenario for the buyer ... Thanks for the advice hi
              Quote: poizor
              those who come to the exam (any notice) should themselves prepare for this exam. how to do this is at the discretion of the examiner. you can at the shooting range, you can at the CHOP, you can at the school of the Ministry of Internal Affairs ... there would be a desire!

              In other words, the system is perfect and does NOT require any changes. I recognize the native police ... request
              1. poizor
                poizor 22 May 2013 12: 44
                +1
                Quote: Misantrop
                In other words, the system is perfect and does NOT require any changes. I recognize the native police

                the address of the shooting range, where you can get training in the theory and practice of using a gun, I gave here. What stops you from wasting time and money, enrolling in a course and taking it?
                Of course, I understand, to cry that the good uncle of the State did not give up on the pope and did not teach something - it’s so convenient for your own laziness ...
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 22 May 2013 14: 47
                  +1
                  Quote: poizor
                  What stops you from wasting time and money, enrolling in a course and taking it?

                  Did you take offsets from me that SO so confidently judge my inability to handle weapons?

                  And further. Who conducted mass training in the use of the rifleman in the Baltic states since the collapse of the USSR? Well, the decrease in crime there can be attributed to their phlegmatic nature (and even that - with a stretch). And Moldova of the same time? Do they drink less than in the Russian Federation and Ukraine? Or are people more reasonable? Maybe they didn’t have an armed conflict with Transnistria at their side? Where does the SAME result come from?

                  Here, IMHO, not my laziness, but your unwillingness to work and your desire to stay among the "elite". The very same "no matter what happens," which destroyed the USSR in its time. Contempt and hatred for their own fellow citizens, the desire to cover their own backside behind a heap of instructions and clerical circulars. Do not give weapons, limit the maximum salary, limit the right to travel abroad to the maximum (only for our own people), etc.
                  1. poizor
                    poizor 22 May 2013 15: 00
                    0
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    Did you take offsets from me that SO so confidently judge my inability to handle weapons?

                    come on, don't jump off. as we see there are training opportunities, no matter how some people “see” it.

                    Quote: Misantrop
                    Who conducted mass training in the use of the rifleman in the Baltic states since the collapse of the USSR

                    what is what?

                    Quote: Misantrop
                    Here, IMHO, not my laziness, but your unwillingness to work and your desire to stay among the "elite".

                    I do not have a firearm ...
                    but as you rightly noted about the police, the reluctance and inability to work will not change in any way after facilitating access to firearms. the number of inadequate weapons will increase significantly.
                    in the article under discussion, 7 people dropped out only on dumb cheating, 7 on the inability to just hold weapons - and this is not in a stressful situation, without alcohol and drugs, without any strawberries ...
                    Do you agree to give them weapons and PERSONALLY RESPONSE for their actions?

                    Quote: Misantrop
                    Contempt and hatred of their fellow citizens, the desire to cover their own backside behind a pile of instructions and stationery circulars. Do not give weapons, limit the maximum salary, restrict the right to travel abroad to the maximum (only for your own), etc.

                    is it about the USSR or a democratic RF?
                    As I see, the arguments are essentially over, a wave of "policy type" has begun ...
                    1. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 22 May 2013 15: 17
                      +2
                      Quote: poizor
                      As I see, the arguments are essentially over, a wave of "policy type" has begun ...

                      Why give you arguments if you can't see them point-blank? NONE of the countries in the world, after the introduction of the permit for short-barreled barrels, recorded a worsening of the crime situation. This does not convince you. The argument that the Balts and Moldovans, by and large, did not differ in ANYTHING from other citizens of the USSR in terms of fire training - too. The fact that now (under the current system) the people who do not need it are crowding behind the weapon is similar. Articles that go in a row one after another about the fact that trauma is worse than a complete absence of weapons for you is an empty phrase. He is now a subject of STATUS, such as "Lexus" or a mink coat, so this category of citizens is following him. WHAT arguments do you need, what to wrap them in, so that you at least try to comprehend them?
                      1. poizor
                        poizor 22 May 2013 15: 31
                        -2
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        None of the countries in the world, after the introduction of a short-barrel permit, recorded a deterioration in the criminal situation.

                        it’s like the police work for them ... and the English bobby is generally only with a stick;)

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        The argument that the Balts and the Moldovans, by and large, did NOT differ from other citizens of the USSR in terms of fire training, either.

                        well, consider the Baltic states, Lithuania:
                        Pistols and revolvers for self-defense: by permission of the police with the right not only to store, but also to carry with them. Pistols and revolvers of caliber up to 9 mm are allowed. A few years ago, with the introduction of the law on weapons, they were allowed to legalize existing trunks (so I have Walther P08).

                        To obtain permission for any type of trunks you need:

                        Medical certificate (as a driver’s license);
                        Help from the psychiatric clinic (they conduct a small and simple test there);
                        Certificate from a narcological clinic;
                        A statement motivating the need to purchase a trunk (IMHO must be given to the cop on the paw, so that the need was recognized ...);
                        A state duty check worth about $ 75.

                        After obtaining permission, you must go through a theoretical course and practical exercises (three for - $ 200) and finally can buy a trunk.

                        Upon the use of weapons, a criminal case is started automatically, and one has to prove his innocence, which (considering the Lithuanian cops) is brutally difficult.

                        and what do we see? that problems with the short barrel in Lithuania are higher than the roof.
                        well, do not forget their NeGrov and other distortions in foreign policy, such as "Russian tanks on our streets" ...
                        I'm not talking about the fact that young people left the Baltic countries to the west (yes, these are endangered republics), which also greatly affects crime rates.



                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Articles that go in a row one after another about the fact that trauma is worse than a complete absence of weapons for you is an empty phrase. He is now a subject of STATUS, such as "Lexus" or a mink coat, so this category of citizens is following him.

                        and what, instead of an injury, you need to give them a firearm !? awesome logic, I goof it!
                        it is necessary to prohibit injuries, let them go to gyms :)))

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        WHAT do you need arguments for, what to wrap them up so that you at least try to comprehend them?

                        Give arguments that the firearm will never fall into the hands of the article described. or wet mouths that bukhaya shot from a trauma in the back lying ...
                        it's easy, isn't it?
                      2. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 22 May 2013 17: 58
                        0
                        Quote: poizor
                        instead of trauma it is necessary to give them a firearm !?

                        Well, WHAT the hell need arguments when the panic flooded the remnants of the brain? And in every bastard sees a potential Terminator? request

                        Once again, for those in the bunker: WEAPONS should be WEAPONS, not glamorous toys. Including for youngsters. KILL from it, and do not rumble before their party. This girl would not have taken a real battle barrel into her hands in life (for this very reason). The brains of the population were garbage about the fact that trauma is a kind of mechanical Aibolit (it does not kill, but protects). And now we are surprised that the population understood exactly the way they sang about it. By the way, with that disassembly in the subway, if someone had a REAL trunk there, one shot at the ceiling would be enough to stop the fight. Just because it would be clear to EVERYTHING that the JOKES ARE END, then DEATH.

                        And then read such crap:
                        "Smart" rifle will make a professional sniper newbie
                        and imagine themselves that ...
                        Quote: poizor
                        Give arguments that the firearm will never fall into the hands of the article
                        102% need, as in Sberbank? laughing Give arguments that you will not be stabbed by a kitchen knife by someone in your family "under no circumstances". Otherwise, hand over all piercing-cutting objects in the apartment to law enforcement agencies. And don't forget the iron, you can kill them too laughing
                      3. poizor
                        poizor 22 May 2013 18: 10
                        -1
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Well, WHAT the hell need arguments when the panic flooded the remnants of the brain? And in every bastard sees a potential Terminator?

                        the bastard got the weapon completely legal, and she had a certificate on him ...

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Once again, for those in the bunker: WEAPONS should be WEAPONS, not glamorous toys. Including for youngsters. KILL from it, and do not rumble before their party. This girl would not have taken a real battle barrel into her hands in life (for this very reason).

                        ahh, I can't! Describe more, what this wet-click "in life" would not do.

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        By the way, with that disassembly in the subway, if someone had a REAL trunk there, one shot at the ceiling would be enough to stop the fight.

                        Well, why didn’t the wet splitter shoot at the ceiling?

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Just because it would be clear to EVERYTHING that the JOKES ARE END, then DEATH.

                        and someone with the same fighting between the eyes would have slapped the fool - and by law he would have been "right" - defended himself. or not?
                        or they would shoot a couple of bullets into a friend with an ax - they also "defended themselves" according to the law. and a lawyer would prove that there was self-defense.

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Give arguments that you will not be stabbed by a kitchen knife by someone in your family "under no circumstances". Otherwise, hand over all piercing-cutting objects in the apartment to law enforcement agencies. And don't forget the iron, you can kill them too

                        Well, as usual, arguing from the topic, when there is nothing to cover ...

                        Having created a normal, working system for issuing permits for a firearm, it suddenly turns out that there is no one to issue it - as in Germany. at home - keep it, transport it disassembled - and "suddenly" no one needs it ...
                      4. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 22 May 2013 19: 31
                        0
                        Quote: poizor
                        bastard got a weapon completely legal
                        How many times you need to repeat, so that it dawns on you: Injury is NOT a weapon? Anything but not it. Yes, you can kill from it. A meat grinder is impossible? A hammer, an ax, a knitting needle?
                      5. poizor
                        poizor 22 May 2013 19: 51
                        0
                        Tell us what else can be done with an injury, besides using it as a weapon?
                      6. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 22 May 2013 22: 32
                        0
                        Quote: poizor
                        what else can you do with an injury other than using it as a weapon?
                        Have you ever held it in your hands? Have you tried to shoot? Tell HOW it can be used as a WEAPON (i.e. a tool for destroying exactly the one it was aimed at, and not all in that direction with an unpredictable result). Fire training instructors shrug, are you up to class?
                        "What can you do with him?" Bragging to your buddies, proud of a cool holster, drunk dude. It is no longer suitable for ANYTHING, alas
                  2. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 23 May 2013 11: 03
                    +1
                    Quote: poizor
                    Having created a normal, working system for issuing permits for a firearm, it suddenly turns out that there is no one to issue it - as in Germany. at home - keep it, transport it disassembled - and "suddenly" no one needs it ...

                    Well, then why such a panic about the inadequacies that bought up their trunks for shooting on the streets?
                    Quote: poizor
                    Well, as usual, arguing from the topic, when there is nothing to cover ...

                    It was you who did not answer ANY question on the merits. Either demagogy, or links to centers located horseradish knows where
              2. Misantrop
                Misantrop 23 May 2013 10: 59
                +1
                Quote: poizor
                it’s like the police work for them ... and the English bobby is generally only with a stick;)

                Well, as if by order, in the topic of yesterday’s conversation:
                Two were arrested in connection with the murder in London, police commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe said. Near 14:20 local time (17:20 Moscow time) in the area of ​​Woolwich, on southeast london, the arrested attacked with a knife and machete on a British soldier.

                According to preliminary information, in his spare time from service, he left the territory of the nearby barracks in a T-shirt with an appeal to help veterans.

                According to eyewitnesses, the two black men who attacked the soldier were armed with several cold weapons and a pistol. According to witnesses, at the time of the murder, the criminals shouted "Allahu Akbar" and then forced passers-by to film them in front of the victim.

                Arriving on call, the police entered into a shootout with criminals. They were injured and were hospitalized.
                http://warfiles.ru/show-31457-ubiystvo-v-londone-kvalificirovannoe-kak-terakt-vy
                velo-na-ulicy-nacionalistov.html
                This soldier was not able to run, were there any problems with physical training? Or went out at a dangerous time? And the British police, it turns out, in addition to the baton, there are also trunks. Horseradish Storyteller
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 22 May 2013 13: 12
    +3
    but stupidly buys certificates and tests!


    And with any complex system, where they can refuse in one fell swoop, it is easiest to fight. And those who scream the loudest about the fact that sheer corruption everywhere do so. If there is control over the trunks, then giving them honestly will not be any easier. Half of the Hanzavists in such a system would sit without a barrel.
  • Misantrop
    Misantrop 22 May 2013 11: 38
    +1
    Quote: Avenger711
    The mere presence of weapons in the house creates the prerequisites that it will be used, maybe drunk, or maybe for suicide.

    It did not take long to wait for the kitchen knife to be recognized as the same weapon. And cut the sausage into sandwiches will go to a special workshop
  • Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 22 May 2013 21: 30
    +2
    Quote: Avenger711
    Typical verbal diarrhea about the fact that the offender is afraid to get a bullet. As if the criminal in 100% of cases, the attacker did not have time to nail the victim before he tries to pull out the barrel.

    And what will be in time in 100% of cases? Probably our gopniks are all terminators and commando all rolled into one ...
    Quote: Avenger711
    And even during mass slaughter in US-armed eggs, a criminal could not be killed before the arrival of the police

    Now, of course, you are not lying directly, but you are very cleverly manipulating the facts - the United States is of course armed, as you have deigned to put it, "in the balls" - that's just ALL the shootings took place in Free Guns zones, that is, in zones free of weapons, where law-abiding citizens EVERYONE was UNAUTHORIZED.
    1. poizor
      poizor 22 May 2013 21: 36
      -1
      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      And what will be in time in 100% of cases? Probably our gopniks are all terminators and commando all rolled into one.

      directed in the forehead of a 9 mm legitimate PM in the hands of a criminal?

      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      in weapon-free zones, where law-abiding citizens were EVERYTHING IMPAIRED.

      in the University?
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 22 May 2013 22: 35
        +1
        Quote: poizor
        directed in the forehead of a 9 mm legitimate PM in the hands of a criminal?

        All officially registered trunks are available in the bulletproof library of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, so to go on a crime with such a barrel in hand is the same as leaving your passport there with a residence permit
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 00: 58
        +1
        Quote: poizor
        directed in the forehead of a 9 mm legitimate PM in the hands of a criminal?

        You haven’t messed up anything? Do you even know what the proportion of crimes involving registered weapons is in crimes involving weapons? Zero integers, fucking tenths. And from all violent crimes with the use of weapons - zero points, hell of thousandths or ten thousandths, we can say generally at the level of statistical error.
        A criminal will NEVER commit a crime with a weapon officially registered for him, he is not an idiot. And if an idiot, then the task of the permissive-licensing system is to prevent him from using weapons. And if he is an idiot and leaked through the "permission", then a legal weapon in the hands of law-abiding citizens can help avoid tragedy and put a fat lead on the career of such a criminal.
        But what does surprise you? Educational institutions in the USA EMNIP in all states are weapons-free zones.
        Remember the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School? The residents of the town themselves regretted that the director did not have a pistol or a carbine in the safe. As one of the residents wrote: "Then she would not have had to rush at him with her bare hands, she would have just shot the bastard."
        1. poizor
          poizor 23 May 2013 11: 12
          -2
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          You haven’t messed up anything? Do you even know what the proportion of crimes involving registered weapons is in crimes involving weapons? Zero integers, fucking tenths.

          because firearms do not give out right and left.

          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          A criminal will NEVER commit a crime with weapons officially registered on him; he is not an idiot.

          during the booze, the "good man" pulls out a barrel to show off - and away we go.
          and the same gopniks, before the first imprisonment - can easily get a firearm - in the base all the way, and then "lost". or "stolen" ...

          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          But what does surprise you? Educational institutions in the USA EMNIP in all states are weapons-free zones.

          yah? and how can weapons be carried there by guards?
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 24 May 2013 16: 45
            0
            Quote: poizor
            because firearms do not give out right and left.

            And they’re not going to give out. To buy, after obtaining permission and undergoing appropriate training - this is what is offered.
            Quote: poizor
            during the booze, the "good man" pulls out a barrel to show off - and away we go.

            My friends and I are not monks and not teetotalers, and it happens that we drink, and it even happens in a big and noisy company. But NEVER, no matter how drunk I or my friends, NOBODY DELIVER a weapon, even if it was within reach. NOBODY AND NEVER.
            Quote: poizor
            and the same gopniks, before the first imprisonment - can easily get a firearm - in the base all the way, and then "lost". or "stolen" ...

            And permissive - a licensing system, district, what are they for? Or do you absolutely seriously think that the short-barrels will be distributed on the street to everyone as hot cakes and will not be controlled then? Then let me reassure you - you definitely will not be given weapons with such ideas.
            Quote: poizor
            yah? and how can weapons be carried there by guards?

            Usually secretive. Or the guards "don't catch mice." Or the guards are killed first.
  • rekrut
    rekrut 22 May 2013 08: 53
    +3
    Under capitalism, man is an enemy of man, and that means you need a cannon. What we gave birth to is reaping.
    1. bairat
      bairat 22 May 2013 09: 26
      0
      And under socialism, brothers were straight forever? Tell how in the days of "developed socialism" they were cut to death in Kazan?
  • mojohed
    mojohed 22 May 2013 08: 59
    +6
    All of the above sounds hopeless. My acquaintance got one on such pitchforks. Shot at a bully from Makarych, he ran away. Then a friend in the police (just six months before the renaming was) went and reported the use of a pistol. The victim contacted only a month later with a certificate that the month could not work and all that - supposedly the wounds were festering. As a result, 2 years the lawyer fought for a friend and agreed that the friend also paid the bully. And they imputed 112 - harm to moderate health, which de facto did not exist. Help is fake, but the cops didn’t shake it - installation - plant.
    as a result, the acquaintance now has no legal trunk. On the side, he bought an OSU without a license, and recently he shot some tajiv - he, too, with a bwl wasp. I didn’t go to any police.
  • svskor80
    svskor80 22 May 2013 09: 13
    +5
    With our corruption, weapons cannot be sold at all, because they are in the hands of dubious individuals who do not defend themselves, but use barrels for intimidation and boasting. If the licensing and permission system worked, it worked efficiently and hard, then I would be two-handed for selling weapons. And so no, it’s not necessary, and traumatism doesn’t even have to be sold, it is obvious who it is in the hands of. And by the way, why is it not written about who and where issued the licenses to the unfortunate shooters, here they also need to be held accountable.
    1. Middle-brother
      Middle-brother 22 May 2013 09: 31
      +2
      Quote: svskor80
      If the licensing and permitting system worked, would work efficiently and hard, then I would be two-handed for the sale of weapons.

      I fully support.
    2. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 01: 04
      0
      Quote: svskor80
      With our corruption, weapons cannot be sold at all, because they are in the hands of dubious individuals who do not defend themselves, but use barrels for intimidation and boasting.

      These dubious personalities have weapons anyway, and without permission. The likelihood of getting a real bullet would significantly reduce the level of those who want to frighten and brag.
    3. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 01: 05
      0
      Quote: svskor80
      And by the way, why is it not written about who and where issued the licenses to the unfortunate shooters, here they also need to be held accountable.

      But this is a big plus. I agree with you completely.
  • bairat
    bairat 22 May 2013 09: 39
    +3
    On TV, the lawyer spoke about his practice. He says it turns out this way: if you defend yourself and use a weapon, then you fuck the criminal without any sentiment, then there’s a chance at the court to have a break. And if the criminal survived and started talking, and he will say that he was walking calmly and you attacked him, then everything, kaput, that it will be impossible to prove something.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 22 May 2013 09: 53
      +1
      What do you want? There is a victim, but whether there was an attack on you is still a big question.
    2. ale-x
      ale-x 22 May 2013 09: 58
      +3
      And that is true. The carrion will not have a lawyer.
  • domokl
    domokl 22 May 2013 09: 45
    +5
    That's right. And about red tape, and especially about the use of weapons. Many of those who saw weapons only on TV or shot a dozen stores during their military service shouted about the need for almost distributing pistols.
    The legislative framework is drawn up in such a way that the one who is officially registered will always be to blame. Even law enforcement officers prefer not to use weapons on the street ... The prosecutor’s office is tortured by checks.
    Until the principle “My house is my fortress prevails with us, we will have a carbine or a gun at home, keep the Russian ax at the front door. Less chance to sit in excess and beat the criminal more
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 22 May 2013 15: 23
      -2
      Quote: domokl
      Many of those who saw weapons only on TV or shot a dozen stores during their military service shouted about the need for almost distributing pistols.

      Yes, yes, yes, to identify on forums and write in accomplices of terrorism. The desire to protect themselves from the arbitrariness of the ruling criminal groups in power should be suppressed with an iron hand in the bud. The herd must pay, and moo - ONLY on command
      1. poizor
        poizor 22 May 2013 15: 33
        -2
        Quote: Misantrop
        The desire to protect themselves from the arbitrariness of the ruling criminal groups in power should be suppressed with an iron hand in the bud. The herd must pay, and moo - ONLY on command

        so what will you do with your little farther against the motorized rifle battalion?
        Will you quietly threaten the "criminal gangs in power" with a roll of toilet paper in the toilet plaky-plaki?
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 22 May 2013 18: 09
          0
          Quote: poizor
          so what will you do with your little farther against the motorized rifle battalion?
          With you headed, strategist? Or will you be hiding behind armor at this time so that you don’t burn it with a hot sleeve?
          1. poizor
            poizor 22 May 2013 18: 12
            -3
            so there was a break in the consciousness of the "fighter against the bloody regime of gebni" (or whatever it is customary to call it among the swamps) ...
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 22 May 2013 19: 54
              +1
              Quote: poizor
              so there was a rupture of consciousness of the "fighter against the bloody regime of gebney"

              It's your panic that flooded the remnants of your brain. In what mirror did you see the "fighter against the bloody regime"? Have you ever seen that motorized rifle battalion? Alive, not in a zombie box? And why should I fight against him? By the way, it is through the efforts of people like you that they will soon be disarmed or reformed to their complete disappearance. Also "just in case". During the "bloody tyrant" of Stalin, there were a lot of weapons in the hands of the population (especially the permitted, although illegal, too) was enough. But even the most inveterate democrats do not shout about battles with troops or groups among themselves, there were none. But under the Democrats, the glamorous party and the rich bull firing in all directions, as in the storming of Berlin. Democracy, sir ...
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 22 May 2013 09: 51
    -3
    And at one time the nobles were carrying weapons without exception. How many people were then killed in duels alone for any reason. Weapons, if any, cannot be used.
    1. bairat
      bairat 22 May 2013 10: 02
      +4
      You can kill a person with a shovel, an ax, a knife, a fork, you can strangle him with your bare hands. Offer to enclose us in spacesuits that would not get killed or what?
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 22 May 2013 12: 34
      +3
      Quote: Avenger711
      And at one time the nobles were carrying weapons without exception. How many people were then killed in duels alone for any reason.
      But the new "nobles" can be rude for themselves absolutely safe for any reason and to anyone. And in general, do not bother with the rules of decency, if only there are enough connections and the thickness of the wallet.
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 22 May 2013 14: 51
        0
        You won’t believe it, but about 200 years ago slaves without any duels at the stables just sacked.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 22 May 2013 15: 26
          +1
          Quote: Avenger711
          You won’t believe it, but ...
          ... those slaves were more honest and decent than today's "nobles". Who can curse a woman right on the air, knock anyone right on the sidewalk or pedestrian crossing with their car and ... not be responsible for it
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 22 May 2013 22: 37
            +1
            Judging by the rating of the post, the newly-minted "nobles" did recognize themselves ... laughing
  • adg76
    adg76 22 May 2013 10: 14
    +4
    I have an extension of the license for LLCP in 1,5 years. I will not renew. And I don’t carry it with me anymore. I’ll sell a gun and take a stun gun. Against one striker will help, and against two and injury vryatli will help. It’s better to learn how to get away from conflict and not to look for adventure than to leave your children for several years without a father.
    1. poizor
      poizor 22 May 2013 11: 19
      0
      Better learn to get away from conflict and do not seek adventurethan to leave their children for several years without a father.

      gold, but marble!

      as the author of the article wrote - 17 out of 20 people received help for Pontus ...
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 01: 15
        0
        Quote: adg76
        It’s better to learn how to get away from conflict and not to look for adventure than to leave your children for several years without a father.

        Quote: poizor
        gold, but marble!

        It is better to leave children without a father for several years than orphans for life.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 22 May 2013 11: 48
      +3
      Quote: adg76
      than leaving your children without a father for several years.

      And if adventures find you yourself? Just because someone did not have enough money for the next dose? For several years, leaving children without a father is bad, I agree. Is it better for good? And to stay alive, burying children at the same time?
      1. poizor
        poizor 22 May 2013 12: 02
        -3
        Quote: Misantrop
        And if adventures find you yourself?

        jogging 50 meters - and "adventures" roll around gasping for air.

        Quote: Misantrop
        For several years, leaving children without a father is bad, I agree. Is it better for good? And to stay alive, burying children at the same time?

        wow, as already bent! I will reveal a little statistics - with knife, 30-40 strokes, fatal 1-2. if without show-off "yes I am this junkie right now!" such situations (with a little sport) are solved with a bang, even without cuts.
        but in a situation where the knife is at the throat (yeah, the one that you described), no fart will help.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 22 May 2013 12: 32
          +2
          Quote: poizor
          jogging 50 meters - and "adventures" roll around gasping for air.

          Recommend this to a pregnant wife, a veteran with a bunch of sores ...
          1. poizor
            poizor 22 May 2013 12: 49
            -3
            Quote: Misantrop
            Recommend this to a pregnant wife, a veteran with a bunch of sores

            and again to the extreme ...
            you simply recommend to the pregnant woman and the veteran does not hang around the streets at night, looking for problems on his ass. I’ve never heard of drug addicts killing pregnant women and pensioners on the way to the store. (well, except for any fantasies on police police topics)

            ps well, as it were, people who are weak will have big problems with the use of a firearm, due to weakened physical data.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 22 May 2013 14: 58
              +1
              Quote: poizor
              and again to the extreme ...
              you simply recommend to the pregnant woman and the veteran does not hang around the streets at night, looking for problems on his ass.

              Even 30 years ago, if necessary, I walked quite calmly at night, not counting it as an outrageous extreme. And now it is already (regardless of the reason) called "problem finding"? And why? Don't you think that the current system is most favorable to the criminals, since it is they that have taken the SO? And the laws stamped in batches only exacerbate this situation? Maybe introduce another curfew for law-abiding citizens? Legislate that actually acts today ... For meeting with the forces of law and order is often not much better than running into gopniks (you can even try to run away from those at your suggestion)
              1. poizor
                poizor 22 May 2013 15: 09
                0
                Quote: Misantrop
                Even about 30 years ago, if necessary, I walked quite calmly at night, not counting this as extreme extreme.

                Cho, and in truth 30 years ago, pregnant and senior citizens wandered around the street at night !?

                Quote: Misantrop
                And now it is already (regardless of the reason) called "problem finding"? And why? Don't you think that the current system is most favorable to the criminals, since it is they that have taken the SO?

                maybe the police WORK, and not collected sticks?

                Quote: Misantrop
                For meeting the law enforcement forces at night is often not much better than running into the gopniks (you can run away from those who even try to advise you)

                and as we see, I was right - the policemen are now not much better than the gopniks ...

                maybe you need to change something in the philharmonic society (policemen), and not indulge in pistols?
                1. Captain45
                  Captain45 22 May 2013 15: 20
                  +5
                  Quote: poizor
                  maybe the police WORK, and not collected sticks?

                  Oh, well done! Golden words, namely, that she worked, and did not "chop" sticks until Gryzlov came.
                2. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 22 May 2013 18: 06
                  +1
                  Quote: poizor
                  maybe you need to change something in the philharmonic society (policemen), and not indulge in pistols?

                  That the reformatory itch in sweaty paws won't calm down? How did Gorbachev begin his perestroika, and since then did he like it? Poke your finger, WHO will change everything for you and ensure your personal safety? You will indulge in a soft toy in a room with walls lined with felt. To avoid accidentally getting hurt. Quite recently, "Raportun" and Pedved finished another reform of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, did it help a lot? Do you need to change a couple more times? And a couple of bags of tightening laws, one will not be enough. So that for a sidelong glance 5 years of the colony were given
                  Quote: poizor
                  Cho, and in truth 30 years ago, pregnant and senior citizens wandered around the street at night !?
                  Do you distinguish the concepts of "walking" and "hanging around"? Or is everything in your head mixed up with horror?
                  1. poizor
                    poizor 22 May 2013 18: 14
                    -1
                    oooh, what a stream of consciousness has gone! see a really simple question the template completely tore soldier

                    Quote: Misantrop
                    Do you distinguish the concepts of "walking" and "hanging around"?

                    I am without a doubt. at night on the street pregnant women and retirees cannot "walk" by definition ...
                    1. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 22 May 2013 18: 20
                      -1
                      Quote: poizor
                      at night on the street pregnant women and pensioners cannot "walk" by definitionEtc.
                      belay Is curfew already announced? Or what other reason?
                      1. poizor
                        poizor 22 May 2013 18: 25
                        -2
                        Well, tell me, where can pregnant women and retirees "go" at 2 am?
                      2. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 22 May 2013 19: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: poizor
                        Where can pregnant women and retirees "go" at 2 am?
                        At least to the beach. Staying under the summer sun is not very beneficial for one or the other. Or to the pharmacy. Lots of options. In the North, by the way, night is half a year. Until spring, do not get out of the house?

                        By the way, where exactly is "2 am"? At 7 o'clock in the evening it is already dark in winter, this is the time where to count? Is it still possible to lean out from behind the armored door of your apartment, or will this already be a "search for adventure"?
                      3. poizor
                        poizor 22 May 2013 19: 52
                        -3
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        At least to the beach.

                        understandably. Further, the stream of consciousness is not interesting to me.
                      4. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 22 May 2013 19: 59
                        +2
                        The finger is not tired of pressing the minus button? laughing Have you ever swam in the sea at night, what is for you a "stream of consciousness"? Or, as a true athlete, do you prefer to spend this time behind an armored door under three blankets?
              2. ded10041948
                ded10041948 22 May 2013 23: 13
                +1
                And what do you know about pensioners, "sent Cossack"?
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 01: 22
        0
        Quote: poizor
        you simply recommend to the pregnant woman and the veteran does not hang around the streets at night, looking for problems on his ass.

        Often the problemma itself finds them. And robs.
        1. poizor
          poizor 23 May 2013 11: 14
          0
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Often the problemma itself finds them. And robs.

          and there are statistics?
    3. Hleb
      Hleb 22 May 2013 19: 49
      -1
      I wonder what kind of baby will be born to the mother, if during the gestation period the mother will have a gun with her? The same applies to the granny with the trunk. She is ready to slap her neighbor with a stick, because the music plays loudly. How can you imagine a pensioner at night, with weapons on the street ..))
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 22 May 2013 20: 08
        +3
        Quote: Gleb
        I wonder what kind of baby will be born to the mother, if during the gestation period the mother will carry weapons?
        The Slavs for centuries had weapons with them. And nothing, somehow lived ...
        Quote: Gleb
        how can you imagine a pensioner at night, with weapons on the street ..))

        Can you imagine a pensioner on the street at night? But in some places in the Crimea Till now you can walk the streets at least until the morning without any knives, trunks and other deadly iron. And do not lock the gate for the night, since not all vacationers have returned. Last summer I myself was resting in such a place, this year I will go again. By the way, there are cars in the summer - from all over the former USSR. And a night walk doesn’t look at all extreme extreme
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 22 May 2013 20: 15
          +2
          Neither I, nor my father nor grandfather had weapons at home. And nothing. I don’t know what centuries there are?
          I also had a rest in Crimea and saw old people in the evenings, only I wrote about trunks. I didn’t see old people with trunks there. I didn’t see how drug addicts rob them either. And they definitely don’t need weapons
          we were talking about jogging, at 50 meters? And as I understand it, did you find a solution to put everyone on the trunk?
          1. poizor
            poizor 22 May 2013 21: 14
            -3
            you will also ask what kind of "pregnancy" it is, that rushes to swim at night, with a pistol - and cannot escape from drunken gopniks.
            and a security question - how will this "pregnant" swim with a barrel?
            drinks
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 22 May 2013 22: 48
              +2
              Quote: poizor
              a security question - how will this "pregnant" swim with a barrel?
              I haven't piled everything up yet, I had to write "a pregnant pensioner with a barrel in the sea." Then everything would have been mixed evenly ... laughing

              I feel sorry for you, modern stupid youngsters. The country was stolen from you, the future was stolen, locked behind armored doors (bought with a wild overpayment for YOUR money). You are simply unable to figure out WHAT you have been deprived of with your blinkered mind. Going out at dusk for you is an act between jumping into the mouth of a volcano and suicide, all around are envious people and a potential threat to your wretched little world built on the pursuit of money. Self-esteem is something from a book about King Arthur and the Knights of the round table. None of the current bosses will not tolerate a hint of such a feeling from a subordinate, so you simply do not know. And the realization that for the sake of this you can at least accomplish something is completely beyond understanding ...
              1. ded10041948
                ded10041948 22 May 2013 23: 21
                +3
                Do not pay attention. Unfortunately, in many modern youngsters, mental maturation is significantly behind sexual!
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 22 May 2013 22: 53
            +3
            Quote: Gleb
            I also had a rest in Crimea and saw old people in the evenings, only I wrote about trunks. I did not see old people with trunks there
            This is not about constant wearing, but about RIGHT TO PURCHASE... It did not occur to me that these old people, in any case, are not more stupid than you (with much more experience). And if they calmly walk in the evening, then they probably understand what they are doing. And why they do it this way and not otherwise. Your supporter a little higher has already suggested to lock them up for the night "just in case", do you want to be like him?
          3. Misantrop
            Misantrop 23 May 2013 15: 47
            0
            Quote: Gleb
            Neither I, nor my father nor grandfather had weapons at home. And nothing. I don’t know what centuries there are?
            And before your grandfather, the Slavs in Russia were not wink About the Cossacks also heard nothing. In Siberia (where there are several trunks in each hut), some non-humans are born. And the children of female military personnel are monsters without exception lol
            Quote: Gleb
            we were talking about jogging, at 50 meters? And as I understand it, did you find a solution to put everyone on the trunk?

            Directly "all at once" and "just stick it in your hands"? Not to allow a law-abiding citizen to decide for himself whether he needs it or not, to undergo training and purchase, but simply to distribute to everyone who turns up at hand?

            By the way, another question. It didn’t occur to you that the pensioner or the pregnant woman itself might be armed, but any of those accompanying? Or is the attendant invited to run away in these cases?
  • ded10041948
    ded10041948 22 May 2013 12: 47
    -2
    And then this scum will not pester me, but my grandmother is 20 years older than me or my child. I don’t know about you, but knowing about such a situation, I’ll live badly, and most normal people too.
    1. poizor
      poizor 22 May 2013 12: 53
      -4
      Quote: ded10041948
      And then this scum will not pester me, but my grandmother is 20 years older than me or my child.

      Yeah, you don’t have a phone, or call the policemen of conscience / courage?
      There are many ways to provide assistance in conflict situations, non-contact and effective, but for some reason some believe that the only possibility is a firearm ...

      Quote: ded10041948
      I don’t know about you, but knowing about such a situation, I’ll live badly, and most normal people too.

      right, therefore, with the murder of a drunk, dad of two children, will it be much easier for you to live?

      you wonder why in countries like the United States the police also have considerable problems when using weapons? although it would seem - trained people, with weapons - bang the suspect in the forehead - "offered resistance / presented danger, etc."

      and in Germany, the use of weapons by the police is generally an emergency ...
      1. ded10041948
        ded10041948 22 May 2013 23: 33
        +1
        Oh, how everything is running! Try it yourself in an extreme situation, when you are attacked, call the police. In the best case - lose your mobile phone, in the optimal case - you will knock on the "keyboard" for a month. It's better not to think about the worst options.
        1. poizor
          poizor 23 May 2013 11: 23
          0
          it is very useful in life to read not only diagonally.
          and so really:
          Quote: ded10041948
          how everything is started somehow!
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 01: 31
        +1
        Quote: poizor
        Yeah, you don’t have a phone, or call the policemen of conscience / courage?

        Oooh ... ostap suffered ... The young man is pale, you can get the phone in time, maybe you’ll even dial the number, only the duty group will arrive at your cooling body, well, or if you’re very lucky you will be in time hold the handle while you retreat to another world will be.
        1. poizor
          poizor 23 May 2013 11: 24
          -2
          the advice is the same as the previous speaker: read not only diagonally. and then there will be no need to blush to pretend to be a pale young man ...
      3. ded10041948
        ded10041948 23 May 2013 15: 44
        0
        Firstly: when applied, so to speak "according to the rules", it is impossible to kill (read the legislation, it is written there, in which cases, how and where to shoot)
        Secondly: for a drunk dad two children and a fist is enough.
        Thirdly: the application is not necessary, sometimes (in 90% of cases) it is enough to demonstrate the readiness to apply for the "opponents" to withdraw their claims.
        1. poizor
          poizor 23 May 2013 15: 55
          0
          Quote: ded10041948
          Firstly: when applied, so to speak "according to the rules", it is impossible to kill (read the legislation, it is written there, in which cases, how and where to shoot)

          Of the 20 who passed the legislation, they know 0,00. just deducted from the training manual ...
          and what will you do with stray bullets when a pregnant pensioner on crutches with shaking hands starts firing?
          1. ded10041948
            ded10041948 23 May 2013 16: 16
            0
            Why are you so stubborn! I'm trying to explain to you that the weapon is in the hands of a trained person. who does not conflict with his head, it is quite safe for the normal people around him. And you are always trying to give me as counterarguments some absurdly hypertrophied situations with acting characters, which you will not see even in the Cabinet of Curiosities. You yourself, at least realized that you wrote: "a pregnant pensioner on crutches with shaking hands will begin to shoot" I do not advise you to imagine this picture: the psychiatric hospital is guaranteed!
            1. poizor
              poizor 23 May 2013 16: 25
              0
              Quote: ded10041948
              I’m trying to explain to you that the weapon is in the hands of a trained person. which does not conflict with his head, is completely safe for the normal people around him.

              the question is - why should he, if he does not conflict with his head? There are many ways of self-defense without a gun in your pocket.

              Quote: ded10041948
              You yourself, at least realized that you wrote: "a pregnant pensioner on crutches with shaking hands will start to shoot"

              with the existing system, getting a gun is not a problem for whoever wants it. there are no restrictions on the psyche, physico and psychology - everything can be obtained for denyuzhku. and get it to those who are beautifully described in the article - collected pieces of paper, wrote off the theory the second time and banging toward the target without hitting the instructor ...

              you propose to tighten the system - then a pensioner, a pregnant woman and a disabled person will not be able to get weapons. due to the fact that they are simply eliminated according to physical data ...
              1. ded10041948
                ded10041948 23 May 2013 16: 39
                0
                "then a pensioner, a pregnant woman and a disabled person will not be able to get a weapon. due to the fact that they will simply be eliminated by physical data ..."

                In each case, the issue is decided by the medical board. I am also a pensioner (sorry that I’m not pregnant), but I pass the medical board freely.
                At least those who do not receive a license (permit) will have at least some chance that not everyone will call the police or run 50 meters!
                ps And you (that's it, with a small letter) train in running and high-speed police call. I will not come to your aid!
                1. poizor
                  poizor 23 May 2013 16: 45
                  0
                  Quote: ded10041948
                  ps And you (that's it, with a small letter) train in running and high-speed police call. I will not come to your aid!

                  the funny thing is that in the circle of my acquaintances, my parents' acquaintances, no one was in a situation where they needed something other than a barrel, even a pepper spray ... what are we doing wrong? maybe we live not there, or the police in Belarus work?
                2. ded10041948
                  ded10041948 23 May 2013 20: 23
                  0
                  I am inclined to assume the influence of the second factor. I would immediately write where you are, half of the questions would disappear by itself! Therefore, we do not understand each other. Comparing Belarus and the Urals is the same as the reception room of the regional party committee and the thieves' "raspberry" (somewhat exaggerated, of course, but it will be clearer this way). And I do not go out for cigarettes after 10 pm without a barrel! There were precedents. A gray-haired grandfather, in a tie, expensive cigarettes - a convenient target for gop - stop! "Show your teeth" - first a "quiet" stupor, then a sprint jerk (masters of sports are resting!) For the nearest corner. And where does all the insolence and bravado go! By the way, for the entire time (probably a year and a half), one single time did not even take out the barrel, but only opened his jacket and these drug-cravers saw the handle in the axillary holster!
                  I apologize for the previous answer (I mean the text PS)
                  It’s just that you don’t understand our specific conditions and God forbid you not to encounter them! And I can only envy your conditions!
  • Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 01: 20
    +2
    Quote: poizor
    jogging 50 meters - and "adventures" roll around gasping for air.

    Rave. Not everyone has the opportunity to escape.
    Quote: poizor
    wow, as already bent! I will reveal a little statistics - with knife, 30-40 strokes, fatal 1-2. if without show-off "yes I am this junkie right now!" such situations (with a little sport) are solved with a bang, even without cuts.

    This is not a show-off now? And often you had to go out on an enemy armed with a knife? Have you ever seen a police officer who decided not to use a service certificate when arresting "this drug"? When, in the end, there was not enough surgical thread in the injury to mend it.
    1. poizor
      poizor 23 May 2013 11: 30
      -3
      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      Not everyone has the opportunity to escape.

      Well, of course, after all, sport is just what they show on TV for a beer with chips and a cigarette ...

      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      It is now by chance not show off? And often you had to go to the enemy armed with a knife?

      so I say - you need to keep the ponotore tied and make legs, and not cunning with trembling hands with the hope of a hidden gun.

      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      Have you ever seen a police officer who decided not to use the service card when arresting "this drug"?

      no, not seen. and I don’t care about the trunk, he’s not afraid of him - unless of course he sees him as a gun, and not like another green man.

      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      When, as a result, the surgical thread in the injury was not enough to darn him.

      So this is stupid show-offs and complete incompetence - that same pont cutting.
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 23 May 2013 15: 21
        +2
        Quote: poizor
        Well, of course, after all, sport is just what they show on TV for a beer with chips and a cigarette ...

        I would very much like to see how your wife, if you ever have one, will run with the child in a stroller and at least the same 50 meters. I would like to see your elderly mother run away from a young and healthy bull who urgently needs to fill in pipes, but there is no money for it.
        Of course, if old people, invalids, pregnant women are consumables for you, then you can continue to vegetate in your delusions.

        Quote: poizor
        so I say - you need to keep the ponotore tied and make legs, and not cunning with trembling hands with the hope of a hidden gun.

        Can you read Russian, damn it? Not everyone can escape. I have already given examples. And this is not because they do not want to play sports, but for completely objective reasons.
        Quote: poizor
        no, not seen. and I don’t care about the trunk, he’s not afraid of him - unless of course he sees him as a gun, and not like another green man.

        Narik might not care, but with a bullet in his body he would have much less ability to wave a knife.
        Quote: poizor
        So this is stupid show-offs and complete incompetence - that same pont cutting.

        No, my dear, this is not show-off and not incompetence, but a consequence of stupid rules and laws (it was before the adoption of the resolution of the Plenum of the Supreme Council "On the application of legislation by the courts on necessary defense and harm when detaining a person who committed a crime") forcing employees to risk their lives in those situations where the use of weapons would reduce the risk of injury to a minimum.
        1. poizor
          poizor 23 May 2013 16: 02
          -2
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Of course, if old people, invalids, pregnant women are consumables for you, then you can continue to vegetate in your delusions.

          and again a pregnant pensioner went swimming in the sea on a winter night, on his way to the pharmacy ...
          neither the old man, nor the pregnant woman, nor the disabled person can use the gun adequately.

          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Can you read Russian, damn it? Not everyone can escape. I have already given examples. And this is not because they do not want to play sports, but for completely objective reasons.

          I’m just waiting for when a disabled person, a pensioner and a pregnant woman come to replace the cunning office plankton and tell them about the need for a trunk ... otherwise all the healthy men want to fix the size of the pussy
          laughing

          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Narik might not care, but with a bullet in his body he would have much less ability to wave a knife.

          it only seems to you.

          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          forcing employees to risk their lives in situations

          to courageously overcome the disregard for sports, practicing methods of detention and heroic detention alone of a group of armed suspects ...
        2. ded10041948
          ded10041948 23 May 2013 21: 08
          0
          He does not understand us! Small lives in Belarus!
  • adg76
    adg76 22 May 2013 13: 05
    +2
    I am writing about if you act within the law. Do you seriously believe that you can shoot from a traumatic pistol? You need to know where to shoot and be able to shoot. Have training. If you shoot in such a way that would stop, then you need to prepare for prison. Exceed defense will be guaranteed. And if you have "Streamer" or "Thunderstorm", then there will probably be corpses. The gun is the last argument, and you must be 100% sure that it will be useful. What is it worth getting him. It is useless in winter. In the summer heat, where will you wear it? In the bag? Borsetka? Or languish in a jacket under the hot sun ?. Can you grab it out of your bag, remove the safety catch and twist the bolt? How long will it take? The law requires that the pistol be either in a holster or on a safety lock. Where do you leave it if you decide to go to a store that sells beer or alcohol? It is prohibited by law to enter such shops with weapons. There are still a lot of places where it is forbidden to enter with a weapon. You are not in a war, where the law of war operates, you are in a city. The gun law drove trauma owners below the baseboard. It is better to buy a good spray can and sprinkle on the trail of those who are catching up or use a stun gun at worst. It's my opinion
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 22 May 2013 15: 03
      +4
      Quote: adg76
      Do you seriously believe that you can shoot from a traumatic gun?

      This is not a weapon at all, but hell knows what. Guaranteed criminal article for your own money. It is impossible to apply, competently apply as intended CONSTRUCTIVE IMPOSSIBLE. With ANY level of shooting training, you are unlikely to get to the floor from it, what else to expect with rubber ammunition and a barrel of variable diameter ... This is an imitator, something like a rubber woman
      1. d.gksueyjd
        d.gksueyjd 23 May 2013 20: 07
        0
        Quote: Misantrop
        This is a mimic, something like a rubber woman

        The most accurate description of the trauma, bravo, you can add that, like on a "real" trip, you can catch a trip * p (for exceeding) +++++++
    2. suslopha
      suslopha 22 May 2013 19: 34
      +2
      sound and accurate description of the situation!
  • adg76
    adg76 22 May 2013 13: 29
    +3
    Have you ever had to fight drug addicts? Yes, for me. High, they don't care about the pain. As well as no high if you need a dose. And with my wife and children, I do not go where adventure can wait. I'm not Rambo and I'm not a pro. I am an ordinary, average citizen of the country.
  • Algor73
    Algor73 22 May 2013 10: 19
    +7
    The eternal dispute (in Ukraine also) is to give people weapons or not. There are pros and cons. But criminals are always armed. Illegally. But ordinary citizens can’t ?! It seems to me that you just need to limit the category of people who should not be given weapons - to alcoholics, drug addicts, hooligans, etc. And to affirm the responsibility (even criminal) to the person who gives the recommendation that the acquisition of weapons to a specific person (for example, the district). And then they give out weapons, and if that - there are no extreme ones. And there will be personal responsibility, then the weapon will not get anyone. Those countries where weapons were allowed did not see a surge in crime. It’s just that you don’t have to play very much in democracy, weapons love order.
  • IRBIS
    IRBIS 22 May 2013 10: 53
    +1
    For most people, having a weapon with them creates an illusory feeling of complete security. And here is the guy who imagines himself "Ramboy", bares the barrel in a situation where everything could end with a simple massacre. But "it" has been smoking since the age of 10, never bothered with sports - it is dead and weak, it wanders from the nightclub. He is bursting with energy (at best), and the barrel in his pocket pleasantly warms the soul with a sense of superiority. And suddenly such a situation arises. And now it pulls out a gun. And around - people hurrying to work, children go to school, to kindergarten. Continue further? Just now there was a case when "inadequate" broke into a safe, took a weapon and ... So what? Weapons for free sale? Every weekend there will be shooting at entrances, on the banks of rivers and lakes, in parks and just on the streets. Isn't it scary for children and wives? Or will we go for walks in body armor?
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 22 May 2013 11: 52
      +3
      Quote: IRBIS
      Weapons for free sale?
      What for? Arms without fail and fine for lack of hands wassat If you’re writing a horror story, don’t stop halfway laughing
      Quote: IRBIS
      Or will we go for walks in bulletproof vests?
      You won’t walk at all. As they practically stopped walking at night, if not in a stoned company (which already does not care)
    2. suslopha
      suslopha 22 May 2013 19: 34
      0
      no, it's too hard for fans to wave a gun!
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 22 May 2013 22: 56
        +3
        Quote: suslopha
        lovers wave a gun
        For reference, ONLY those who do not know how to handle it "wave the gun"
    3. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 23 May 2013 20: 10
      0
      Yes, kitchen knives must also be prohibited - according to statistics, the largest% of application!
  • Whole
    Whole 22 May 2013 11: 22
    +1
    http://gorod48.ru/news/157154/ А у нас вот такой батюшка,причем против тех,кто к нему приставал никаких мер воздействия пока не применено...Да хулиганьте дальше,пока кого-нибудь не прибьете,так вроде получается...
  • FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 22 May 2013 11: 23
    +3
    The criminal is always one step ahead; in principle, he does not need any permissions.
  • TURAR
    TURAR 22 May 2013 11: 44
    0
    Everyone with a cannon in a dark alley suddenly gets hit on the head with a brick! Spray can, for example, scares away a bear;)
  • Captain45
    Captain45 22 May 2013 12: 55
    +6
    My opinion, as an opera pensioner with 20 years of constant wearing PM, it seems to me not in the number of inquiries and going to the offices. The thing is a little different - there’s nothing to catch up on the media, otherwise some stoned drug will be taken for a gop-stop a tent in Khabarovsk, and all the channels trumpet this as an unprecedented event, and even start a live opinion poll and as a result, somewhere in Ryazan, 5-6 people, frightened by an unprecedented increase in crime, run to draw up weapons, although they have a hundred years was not necessary. But the people through the media t I’ve been hammered into the head that everything is bad and scary in the country. that people are being fought on any canoe. There is nothing for these criminal news to brainwash people who are supposed to be in service, they already know from orientation, and the rest, you know less you sleep better. If I told everything about work in due time, then my family would have received three heart attacks for a long time. That’s my opinion.
    1. suslopha
      suslopha 22 May 2013 19: 35
      0
      I support with two hands!
  • USNik
    USNik 22 May 2013 13: 07
    -1
    Avenger711 I agree with you, put +, weapons and the layman - not compatible things.
    The first part of the article is well written,
    The third lady turned out to be the smartest - she was silent.
    and with humor.
    In the second half, instead of summing up and beating bureaucrats and stupid procedures, the author went all out, like "a pistol to every house!" , "peace, labor, autamat!", "without a barrel we will all die" ...
    1. poizor
      poizor 22 May 2013 13: 34
      -1
      Quote: USNik
      In the second half, instead of summing up and beating bureaucrats and stupid procedures,

      of the 20 people who reached the exam, TROE was more or less able to handle weapons.
      Do you want these 17 people to get weapons?
      1. USNik
        USNik 22 May 2013 15: 38
        +5
        of the 20 people who reached the exam, TROE was more or less able to handle weapons.
        Do you want these 17 people to get weapons?

        So I about the same. Nearby ladies, sclerotic retirees, stupid teenagers can not give weapons. For them, it's just a toy, the consequences of which they do not understand. Do you want a gun? Serve in the army, pass the exam, go through a normal psychologist and carry at least a machine gun with you!
  • poizor
    poizor 22 May 2013 15: 47
    +1
    Quote: USNik
    pass the exam, go through a normal psychologist and carry a machine gun with you!

    so all this is not! no psychologist, no exam, no training ...

    By the way, in Germany you can buy weapons and carry them - but you have to prove that you really are in greater danger than others. what to do is almost impossible.

    "weapon owner" - you can buy a weapon and store it at home. in this case, the weapon must be transported unloaded and unprepared for firing.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 22 May 2013 23: 00
      +1
      Quote: poizor
      so all this is not! no psychologist, no exam, no training ...
      And there will not be, while people like you are the majority. For whom the right to purchase is tantamount to a shot at a neighbor or his own wife. Who are ready to cut off everyone's hands "just in case"
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 22 May 2013 20: 13
    +2
    We have about 90% of deputies, big officials, artists, etc. have a BATTLE weapon. This is an award for special merits, so to speak. And it’s only worth starting a discussion about the RIGHT of a CITIZEN to own a WEAPON at once screaming and groaning. Hold and do not let go. But the conversation is only about the possibility of a choice to purchase weapons or not. By the way, bandits from the beginning of the 90s even have machine guns and grenade launchers, not to mention machine guns and rifles for special forces.
  • adg76
    adg76 23 May 2013 09: 40
    0
    Quote: Rakti-Kali
    It is better to leave children without a father for several years than orphans for life.

    You are not in a war zone. Learn to get away from conflict, manage it. Do not rush to swing the gun. Effective shooting 2-3 meters to the target. If you got a gun, then shoot. But do not be surprised if you get lead or a knife in response. It won’t bring to good. With one striker you can handle it. With two or three vryatli. There is no statistics about who the traumatic helped. But who she put in prison in situations where you can do without her. Search in the internet. A bunch of videos there
  • adg76
    adg76 23 May 2013 09: 47
    +1
    Quote: Rakti-Kali
    Rakti-Kali RU Today, 01:22 ↑

    Quote: poizor
    you simply recommend to the pregnant woman and the veteran does not hang around the streets at night, looking for problems on his ass.

    Often the problemma itself finds them. And robs.

    Yes, a pregnant woman or a pensioner (if he is not a military pensioner) is not able to correctly use weapons. Stop trolizing (this is not specific to Rakti-Kali. It's about the example of a pregnant woman and a walk at night) Finally, take the conflict on the roads as an example
  • adg76
    adg76 23 May 2013 09: 55
    0
    Quote: Misantrop
    Quote: adg76
    Do you seriously believe that you can shoot from a traumatic gun?

    This is not a weapon at all, but hell knows what. Guaranteed criminal article for your own money. It is impossible to apply, competently apply as intended CONSTRUCTIVE IMPOSSIBLE. With ANY level of shooting training, you are unlikely to get to the floor from it, what else to expect with rubber ammunition and a barrel of variable diameter ... This is an imitator, something like a rubber woman

    Here I completely agree. Injuries should be prohibited, but combat pistols should be allowed. I think anyone will be stopped by the knowledge that the defender has real weapons, not traumatic
  • poizor
    poizor 23 May 2013 11: 32
    -2
    Quote: adg76
    Injuries should be prohibited, but combat pistols should be allowed. I think anyone will be stopped by the knowledge that the defender has real weapons, not traumatic

    and will your own barrel in your pocket also stop? and then it will be "my friend and I were sitting drinking beer, and this corpse jumped at us with a pistol. Well, I protected me and my friend!"?
    1. adg76
      adg76 23 May 2013 15: 11
      +1
      And here the question arises of training in the possession of military weapons. I think without special training in the STATE! and passing exams at STATE! training centers (possibly on the basis of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or army units) talk about military weapons to continue there is no sense. The emphasis when studying should be done precisely on the ability to handle weapons, psychological moments. But in no case do not litter (sorry for the expression) brains with article numbers and their contents about responsibility. The court decides the measure of responsibility. In addition, those who own military weapons should be registered not only in the LRO but also in other police structures. Be a reservist. That is, take the first step towards the National Guard. Nurture a weapon culture. The battle barrel is a very big responsibility, and those who decide to have one should be aware of all the consequences and seriousness of this act. This is a matter of life and death. Psychologically, not everyone will pull the trigger, knowing that the person standing in front of him will die. So it will give an opportunity to take possession of a gun to a criminal. This topic is big and there are many options and opinions. I myself am the owner of injuries and not only. I think a traumatic weapon at this stage does more harm than good. It's my opinion
  • poizor
    poizor 23 May 2013 15: 23
    -2
    Quote: adg76
    And here the question arises of training in the possession of military weapons.

    and what will it give? an example about an "attack" on two "peace drinkers" and the corpse of the attacker, I have already cited ...

    Quote: adg76
    I think without special training in the STATE! and passing exams at STATE! training centers (possibly on the basis of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or army units) talk about military weapons to continue there is no sense.

    how it works we see in a driving school system ...

    Quote: adg76
    The court decides the measure of responsibility. In addition, those who own military weapons should be registered not only in the LRO but also in other police structures. Be a reservist.

    ohh, and again they got into politics ...

    Quote: adg76
    Nurture a weapon culture. The battle barrel is a very big responsibility, and those who decide to have one should be aware of all the consequences and seriousness of this act.

    this is not even funny ...
    how can a drunken 20-year-old, with a pistol in her pocket, in a fashionable strawberry tree, “defend” her ChSV from a “sidelong glance”?
    By the way, what will you do, knowing that at the company thumping at the next table in your pockets there can be more than one trunk?
    1. adg76
      adg76 23 May 2013 15: 58
      +1
      Read the law on weapons .....

      1. If a weapon was taken from you, then this indicates a low level of training (This is about peacefully drinking beer). Therefore, do not forget about the responsibility for the loss of weapons.
      2. I do not know where and what driving schools. I graduated from my military commissariat 20 years ago. Taught well, including devices of cars, engines, medical course, etc. Drivers were trained, not drivers. It all depends on the integrity of the teaching staff.
      3. This is not a policy. Weapons should fall into the hands of only conscious citizens and additionally be controlled. Do you want a trunk? Then compromise with the state. Otherwise it will be like in the USA. It's my opinion. And it may differ from yours, or from someone else's. How many people have so many opinions
      4. Read the gun law. It says everything about the drunk and the sober. And what will happen to them according to the law if they come to the "strawberry" drunk with a weapon.
      "By the way, what are you going to do, knowing that the company that is thumping at the next table may have more than one barrel in its pockets?"- I’m taking the machine gun. The question is meaningless as is my answer
      1. poizor
        poizor 23 May 2013 16: 10
        -1
        Quote: adg76
        1. If a weapon was taken from you, then this indicates a low level of training (This is about peacefully drinking beer)

        situation - you are attacked by two, one with a legal pistol. you ponte, take out your barrel and get a legitimate bullet in the forehead. and two tell the police how you attacked them with a gun, and they only drank beer peacefully.

        Quote: adg76
        Drivers were trained, not drivers.

        you see, you have correctly described the current situation.

        Quote: adg76
        It all depends on the integrity of the teaching staff.

        which will be quickly removed, and put on the same ones who drive a penny in a driving school.

        Quote: adg76
        3. This is not a policy. Weapons should fall into the hands of only conscious citizens and additionally be controlled. Do you want a trunk?

        here some have already sung about discrimination when collecting certificates ... you suggest that this is further burdened with social obligations such as reservists laughing

        Quote: adg76
        4. Read the gun law. It says everything about the drunk and the sober. And what will happen to them according to the law if they come to the "strawberry" drunk with a weapon.

        and what, does it stop someone? who in which clubs checks this? or in stores with alcohol?
        By the way, what to do with the gun when you go to the store where they sell beer? and this is in every Russian store ...

        Quote: adg76
        "By the way, what are you going to do, knowing that the company that is thumping at the next table may have more than one barrel in its pockets?" - I'll take a machine gun. A question without meaning, just like my answer

        drinks
        But the situation is more than real, with the easy receipt of weapons ...
  • adg76
    adg76 23 May 2013 16: 50
    0
    Personally, I won’t. I don’t suffer from childhood
    "which will be quickly removed, and they will put those who make a penny in a driving school."- it may well be.
    "here some have already sang about discrimination when collecting certificates ... you propose to load it even more with social obligations like reservists laughing" - all superfluous are eliminated. Need discipline and control. This is suitable as an option. There are other options to offer. But to sell a war trunk as traumatism ...... My opinion should be some additional restriction

    By the way, what to do with a pistol when you go to a store where they sell beer? and this is in every Russian store ... "-By law, leave home in a safe. As an option, ask a friend to get a beer without a gun. Although this is nonsense. No one is following
    But the situation is more than real, with the easy receipt of weapons ...- real. and even very much. That should not be an easy way
    1. poizor
      poizor 23 May 2013 16: 56
      +1
      Quote: adg76
      That should not be an easy way

      here I completely agree with you!