Spain and Türkiye have begun preliminary negotiations for the sale of KAAN fighter jets.

At the SAHA 2026 air show in Istanbul, TUSAŞ CEO Mehmet Demiroglu confirmed that preliminary negotiations with Spain regarding the sale of the KAAN fighter jet are already underway.

Madrid has requested information about a "full-fledged fifth-generation aircraft." The Spanish are making no secret of their interest. Why hide it if the situation is stalemate? They abandoned the American F-35 long ago. The European FCAS program has been postponed until the 2040s. What should they fly right now?

It would seem that the American "Lightning" (Lockheed P-38 Lightning) could have been used. But that didn't work out. And here comes Ankara with its brainchild, the KAAN. The technology is still crude, but it's already quite stealthy according to its stated characteristics. And most importantly, it's not burdened with the political restrictions that the US likes to attach to every F-35 deal.

For the Turks, this isn't just a matter of commerce. Exporting to a NATO and EU country is a form of "adulthood." If the deal goes through, the KAAN will become the first Turkish "fifth-generation" fighter to join NATO. The younger brother has already done the job: Spain shelled out €2,6 billion for 30 Hürjets, a trainer and combat aircraft.

Turkey is demonstratively withdrawing from the American fighter "umbrella," while Spain is being given a bridgehead until the arrival of a hypothetical European "miracle." Both players are well aware that if the deal falls through, Madrid will be forced to either return to the United States with an outstretched hand or remain stuck with its aging Hornets until 2045.

Comments

[novel66]

The bird is in the nest, the egg is not ready, but there is already a demand for an omelette!

[Peter1First]

Why not? What's so Turkish about this plane? It's a compilation of the same NATO components in a Turkish airframe, only the price is five times lower...

[Pete mitchell]

Will they be able to create their own engine? That's the question. Without an engine, everything is useless.

[ASSAD1]

Whose engine is it in this hodgepodge?

[novel66]

American, of course.

[Dima68]

Turkish, possibly. TF35000. Developed by TRMotor and TUSAŞ Engine Industries. By 2032-2033, they should be using a fully domestic engine. The first production vehicles, blocks 10 and 20, will use American engines, and then, starting with block 30, they will begin using their own.

[TermNachTer]

There are currently 2,5 countries on the planet that make 5th-generation engines—the US, Russia, and China are trying. Even advanced countries like France and England don't have such an engine. And then, lo and behold, the Turks made a 5th-generation engine—it's not even funny.

[Dima68]

The Turks do it, just like the Indians do it, just like the Chinese do it. But when they do it, we'll see.

[TermNachTer]

So far, only the Chinese are doing it. The Turks and Indians are just talking about it.

[bayard]

Quote: TermNachTER

And then, lo and behold, the Turks made a 5th generation engine - it's not even funny.

They haven't done it yet. And the one they're making will be, at best, on par with our AL-41F-1S in terms of thrust, but I don't know about its service life or reliability. They're currently using two F-16 engines (roughly equivalent to our AL-31F). They're basically good enough in terms of thrust and other characteristics. The question is how everything else works. And yes, the British are helping them a lot. If the Turks succeed, NATO will have its own 5th-generation aircraft. But not before the first half of the 30s.

[TermNachTer]

If an aircraft has a 4th-generation engine, it's a 4th-generation aircraft. No matter what kind of airframe they're building. Are the Brits helping the Turks at their own expense?

[bayard]

Quote: TermNachTER

If an airplane has a 4th generation engine, then it is a 4th generation airplane.

Not quite so, the 5th generation has many distinctive features. First and foremost, a stealthy airframe with the appropriate coating, then avionics, an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, and, of course, engines. But these are actually less distinctive, and "supersonic cruising" is generally out of the question. It's simply a slightly more powerful engine in the same weight and dimensions, slightly more fuel-efficient, and longer-lasting. All of this, under certain conditions, allows for supersonic speeds without using afterburners. The Turks currently have the same engine as the F-16, and a modification of it is now also used in the F-15EX, with a 13,5-ton-force afterburner thrust. For comparison, the first version of the Su-57 has an AL-41F-1S with 14,35-ton-force afterburner thrust. So, the Turks have plenty of thrust and thrust-to-weight ratio for the first stage of their pepelats. And the engine they're currently building with British help will be a bit more powerful, around 14,5 thp, so they're doing just fine in that department. They also have some experience in aircraft manufacturing – they assembled almost all of the F-16s they currently have in service, initially from American kits, then with increasing localization. They even participated in the F-35 program, specifically through production cooperation, including on the cockpit and avionics. So, their specialists and expertise aren't exactly from scratch, although of course, no one believed them when they took on the design themselves. However, prototypes are already flying, and they've got the localization of most of their components down to a fine standard. They're truly surprising. But they are really progressing in several directions at once - in rocket technologies, in UAVs, and in shipbuilding.
And the British are helping them.

Quote: TermNachTER

Are the Britons helping the Turks to their own detriment?

Of course not. They're cultivating the Turkish military as their own fighting glove, as a "janissary army" for their future "revived BI No. 2." And they've been doing this for a long time, purposefully and persistently. Specifically for themselves. They're aiming for control of the entire Middle East. Of course, the very existence of Israel hinders them from doing this, but they hope to remove it from there through the hands of Iran (which is also their proxy, don't flatter yourself; MI6 has it under very tight control) and Turkey. They (the Brits) have Netanyahu on the hook and are confidently leading Israel to the loss of its statehood in Palestine.
What will happen to it (Israel)?
The English are planning his resettlement to the Northern Black Sea region, that is, to Ukraine, where the adult male population is now being actively cleansed, while the youth have been allowed to leave for Europe.
How do they feel about this in the towers?
Israel is broadcasting that everything has long been agreed upon with the towers, which is why the war is going so... strangely - with the aim of exterminating the population, destroying infrastructure, but without a decisive offensive on Kyiv (for example, what's stopping them?) and without plans to return to Russia its ancestral lands, which are of strategic importance for our security. The war is being waged under the slogan "don't win by foolish means," because everything was agreed upon long before the Second World War. I'll let you in on a secret - almost everyone in Ukraine (those interested) already knew about this in 2014, because it was openly discussed and shown on the Dnipropetrovsk TV channel "Yakhad." And even then, in 2014, the construction of kibbutzim for immigrants from Israel began. Their construction was also shown. So for us, this is already a very old story, which simply everyone knew about. And now the very final phase of this Marlezon ballet is beginning. Israel must be defeated by the Persians and Turks and return "to their native Khazaria" as repatriate refugees. Funds for post-war reconstruction have long been ready, and plans for new cities to atop the destroyed ones have long been drawn up and approved. All that remains is a small matter. And the towers are too totally controlled by London and Israel to deviate even a little from the plan they've been given. Everything else is a game. And a rather inept one at that.
Soon we will have a new neighbor who is even worse than the previous one.

[TermNachTer]

Assembling a kit isn't manufacturing. Localization in Turkey was laughable. As soon as the Americans stopped deliveries, the fleet of operational F-16s began to shrink sharply. Manufacturing a stealth airframe isn't a problem—it's been solved long ago. Well, except for protective coatings—that's kept secret. Any more or less advanced radar with a synthetic aperture radar will do. But the engine is a problem. Fifth-generation engines—those from Russia and the US, and even China—are just fluttering around. And a little lighter, a little more powerful, etc.—that's not it. A fifth-generation engine requires increasing the gas temperature at the turbine inlet. This is where the entire engine efficiency comes into play. The higher the temperature, the greater the efficiency. And that's what you need to know. And they know how—I've already listed them.

[bayard]

Turkey evacuated specialists from Motor Sich, Antonov, and many others. The SVO helped. If you look closely at what the trade unions were saying in 2022-2023, it's precisely that they had high hopes for the evacuated specialists and were counting on the help of Motor Sich specialists in developing an engine for their aircraft. In any case, they could have developed a more advanced version of the F-16 engine with greater thrust due to new materials and higher turbine blade temperatures. Especially with the active assistance of the British. And so, synergy was achieved. Kudos to the Russian Federation's Supreme Commander-in-Chief for the brilliantly executed SVO, which created all the necessary conditions, but still failed to solve its problems.

Quote: TermNachTER

They can do it - I've already listed them.

The Turks are still learning and experimenting. But with second-hand brains and hands, and British assistance, they'll master all this fairly quickly. Don't repeat the US's mistakes in assessing Iran; Turkey is becoming a serious military and military-technical power. And they've been actively pursuing this since the late 80s. This is a natural process, not a sporadic phenomenon. And while we've been deteriorating for 35 years, they've had 40 years of persistent development. It's offensive to us, but it's the truth about them. This is the kind of government they punished us with.

[TermNachTer]

Motor Sich only made engines for the MiG-15 a very long time ago, after that only for transport aircraft, passenger planes, and helicopters. Motor Sich doesn't develop engines; it makes what Ivchenko-Progress designs. And Progress, after the D-27, hasn't developed anything new. And engines for transport aircraft are very different from combat ones. The Turks received a standard F110 engine, developed in the last century. It's a good, reliable engine, but nothing revolutionary. Don't expect much help from Rolls-Royce – they're currently facing a ton of problems, including financial ones. China, taking advantage of the situation, is twisting their arm – since last December, a service and repair center has been operating in China, currently the largest in the world. Major repairs are also planned. Considering that some components are already manufactured in China, all the technology will soon migrate there. And Rolls-Royce doesn't have a 5th-generation engine. What can you teach if you don't know how to do it yourself?
Regarding power, everything is relative. If Zelensky, Saakashvili, or Pashinyan had become president of Russia, then everyone would have realized they were being punished.

[bayard]

Quote: TermNachTER

Motor doesn't develop engines; it does what Ivchenko and Progress develop. And Progress, after the D-27, hasn't developed anything new.

They also brought in Ivchenko-Progress specialists. And the Turks declared their intention to attract Zaporizhzhia specialists for their programs, including those on fighter engines. Experience in designing modern engines is still experience; they've already established production of helicopter and turboprop engines, as well as jet engines for UAVs. Now they're working on a fighter engine. So they're taking everything they have available, and most likely based on the F110, just like we made an AL-31F based on the AL-41F-1S. So the Turks are hoping to get an engine with roughly the same parameters as the AL-41F-1S. And they could very well succeed.
Rolls-Royce's financial problems are playing right into the hands of the Turks (and the Chinese), because for money they're now willing to share their technologies—heat-resistant alloys, blade manufacturing technologies, and so on. And I'm not at all happy about the Turks' successes. But they exist. They're truly making progress.

Quote: TermNachTER

And Rolls doesn’t have a 5th generation engine.

They have threshold technologies. And they are working on a 5th (they say 6th) generation engine, they need money for it. And the Turks bring them this money.
And in general, the British use the Turks as proxies; Turkey's strength benefits them—they advance British interests in the region. Not only in the Middle East, but also in Central Asia.

Quote: TermNachTER

If Zelensky, Saakashvili, or Pashinyan had become president of Russia, then everyone would have understood that they had been punished.

Well, this is just too much. And I'm not talking about the top official here, but about the vertical power structure that was built even before he came to power. You've seen how his decrees have been carried out throughout his entire term, haven't you? That's Russia's greatest punishment. Those are its shackles and fetters, those are the reasons for its failures and degradation. The entire ruling class is two-thirds traitors and enemy agents. That's why the sabotage is at such a high level. But that's a separate discussion.

[TermNachTer]

Zaporizhzhia's specialists can't help the Turks with the 5th-generation combat aircraft engine issue. And the Turks don't produce transport (passenger) aircraft. To build a 5th-generation engine based on the F110, you first have to know how to make an F110. But the Turks receive it sealed in a shipping container. They haven't even mastered major repairs, and intermediate repairs, maybe even vocational training, are all written down in the technology, everything is on the drawings. Therefore, there WILL be no 5th-generation engine in Turkey in the foreseeable future. When this discussion was just beginning, I went to our designers. Of course, they aren't developing new engines; they're converting old ones to new profiles, and they're keeping up with the latest developments in global engine manufacturing. So, they understand the essence of the problem. So, they explained it to me in layman's terms: Both the VAZ-2101 and the Formula 1 car are cars; they have an engine, wheels, and a steering wheel. But, as they say, there are nuances.
The fact that the British bowed to the Chinese, but not the Turks, suggests that things are dire and that technology will have to be shared, sometime around 2030, but with the Chinese, not the Turks. But only on a 4th-generation scale, because nothing 5th-generation has been shown in England or France yet. Only at the level of talk and projects. And the projects themselves are "crumbling" because they require a lot of money, and they don't have it. Or rather, China does have it.
The vertical of power works the same everywhere. The only difference is the degree of corruption's influence. You don't like Zelepots and Co. as examples. I can cite others—the dumb-as-a-rock Lisa Truss. Or "Sleepy Joe," and before him, according to eyewitnesses, Ronald Reagan, at the end of his second term, also had a poor grasp of reality. As for Bush Jr., the Americans themselves said his IQ was just above imbecile.

[bayard]

Quote: TermNachTER

Zaporizhzhia specialists are unable to help the Turks with the issue of the 5th generation combat aircraft engine.

You've misunderstood again. The Turks aren't interested in a 5th-generation engine; they need THEIR OWN engine for their 5th-generation aircraft. And the F110 is more than enough for that. It's good enough in terms of performance. The Americans, for example, installed the F110 on the F-15EX and got a 4++ rating, while the previous Iglas had F100s. A 5-pound thrust increase provided the necessary thrust-to-weight ratio. Until recently, the Chinese were using our AL-31Fs and their Chinese counterparts on all their J-20s, even though their Dragon is much heavier. So, for the first stage, the F110 is more than enough for the Turks. What they want is a slightly more advanced version, with just 1-1,5 thousand hp more thrust than the previous one. That's what they're working on. That is. They want a rough equivalent of our AL-41F-1S, which is also used on the Su-57. And that's enough for them. An aircraft should be viewed as a whole, a product with a set of characteristics. The 4th generation reached its limits in terms of speed and thrust-to-weight ratio; there's no further improvement in these characteristics; the next step is the thermal barrier. The 5th generation brought stealth, internal weapons bays, and more advanced avionics, software, and active phased array radar. All with roughly the same performance characteristics. Is that clear?
So the Turks simply need engines with suitable characteristics for their airframe. The 110th is sufficient for this, just as the Su-57 was sufficient for the first stage of the AL-41F-1S. But for the second stage, they will need 16-horsepower engines (export version) and 17,5-horsepower engines for their own Aerospace Forces. But the Su-57 flies quite well with the existing engines. And the Turks are training their fighter to fly, and apparently quite successfully, if they plan to assemble the first pre-production batch in a year or two.

Quote: TermNachTER

The Britons bowed to the Chinese, but not to the Turks.

They went to both. Only the Chinese are interested not only and not so much in military matters, but in engines for passenger and transport aircraft, and the volumes are completely different. So Rolls-Royce is now making money on both and can share what it can with the Turks. And the Zaporizhzhia specialists will help as much as they can – they need to get used to their new homeland, and they have incentive.

Quote: TermNachTER

The vertical of power works the same everywhere.

It degenerates in the same way, and was built/formed/staffed according to the same templates—with the appropriate personnel. And such a vertical power structure serves not the country, but its masters, sponsors, and its clan-corporate groups. Incidentally, in the US, a significant portion of the elite and the vertical power structure also serve not their country, but England/the City of London, but here, it seems, the percentage is higher.

[TermNachTer]

An airplane is built around an engine. Designing an airframe with stealth features isn't a problem these days. The South Koreans have also cobbled together a stealth-style aircraft, but they honestly say it's a fourth-generation aircraft.
The Su-57 flies like its Chinese counterparts, but with a fourth-generation engine, so it's more accurate to say it's a transitional stage. And Zaporizhzhya won't be of any help to the Turks, because the transport (passenger) engine is subsonic, and everything in that engine, from the compressor to the combustion chamber, is designed for subsonic flight. Combat engines, however, operate at both subsonic and supersonic speeds, and creating such a compressor, and so on, is a complex process. And how can you create one if you've never built one? Zaporizhzhya can organize production and train personnel, but they're absolutely useless when it comes to design.
Nowhere was it reported that a regional service center was being built in Turkey, with services for neighboring countries and the ability to repair and maintain 250 engines per year, with potential for major overhauls. Taking the Turks on a tour of England and showing them around the workshops doesn't constitute cooperation. This is the British desire to raise money for their developments, and Turkey, in this case, is not a partner, but a cash cow.
I've heard countless conspiracy theories about who's in power, starting with the "black aristocracy of Europe." One can only guess where the truth lies and where the fiction.

[bayard]

Quote: TermNachTER

The South Koreans also "cobbled together" a stealth-type vehicle, but they honestly say that it is a 4th generation vehicle.

They market it as a 4+ or 4++, and they don't have an internal weapons bay—the missiles are mounted semi-recessed to the belly (like the R-37M on the MiG-31). The Turks have an internal weapons bay, and their thrust-to-weight ratio is roughly the same as the F-15EX. So, for them, this is quite sufficient, and in terms of thrust-to-weight ratio, it's even higher than the first version of the Chinese J-20. So, in principle, the Turkish replica can be classified as a 5-. And that's exactly it, not a 4++, because the airframe is completely 5th-generation. Ultimately, it's not the checkered pattern that matters, but the "performance."
And if they don't succeed or succeed in something wrong, I'll be happy because it will definitely be one less problem for us. But they're trying and they're succeeding in a lot.

[TermNachTer]

Generation 4+ or even 4++ is now being used to describe everything from the Su-35, Rafale, Eurofighter, and the latest modification of the F-15. But they're all still fourth-generation. The internal weapons bays are unfortunately small, so all fifth-generation fighters have external hardpoints, including drop tanks. This defeats the purpose of stealth technology. What are these dimensions the Turks have, and what are they planning to cram in there? I seriously doubt they'll be sold anything substantial. And when they figure out a way to detect stealth fighters, it won't make any sense at all.

[bayard]

Quote: TermNachTER

The 4+ or even 4++ generation is now used to refer to everything: the Su-35, the Rafale, the Eurofighter, and the latest modification of the F-15. But they all remain 4th generation.

The fourth generation is all about airframe quality. The first advantage is the active phased array radar and more advanced avionics, the second is improved engines with greater power and longer service life. But the fourth generation is definitely an airframe.
The Turks have a 5th-generation airframe, especially if the radar-absorbing coating is adequate. A 4th-generation or 4+ generation engine for such an airframe is a "5-." And it will likely be even better than the Chinese J-20 with its first-generation engines.

Quote: TermNachTER

When they come up with a way to detect stealth vehicles, there will be no point in it at all.

Do you know how much radars cost? And what about replacing the entire fleet of air defense alert radars, air defense missile system radars, AWACS aircraft, and combat fighters? They've been trying to figure it out since the late 80s, but so far, nothing has happened. And just thinking about it isn't enough.

[TermNachTer]

Will replacing the entire fleet of B-2, B-21, F-22, and F-35 aircraft be cheap? The costs are in the trillions of dollars. So why change them? Perhaps the new detection systems will simply supplement the existing ones? Meter-range radars can detect stealth aircraft just fine.

[bayard]

Stealth radars can see the meter range, albeit worse. They just can't target them—the beam pattern is too wide. For targeting, you need centimeter-range radars, or at worst, extreme decimeter-range ones. But these don't see them. Methods for detecting and intercepting low-observable aircraft exist, I've described them several times, but they require interceptor fighters with good multispectral radar. A meter-range radar guides the fighter to the target area from the rear hemisphere, the fighter conducts additional reconnaissance of its radar and engages it with missiles with a thermal imaging homing head. This trick won't work for SAM guidance, so radars with ever-increasing power, receiver sensitivity, and advanced signal processing algorithms are needed. Combating stealth aircraft is no easy task. They are detectable by conventional radars, but at fairly short ranges. But the AGSN of a SAM and a missile launcher may not be able to lock onto such a target. Therefore, combined means are needed.

[TermNachTer]

Well, I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow. But they're working on it. Considering how much money China is investing in fundamental and applied science, there will be results. It's just a matter of time.

[bayard]

China is trying to acquire modern aircraft engine technology by any means necessary. They are determined, they have a lot of money, and they learn quickly. So sooner or later they will succeed.

[solar]

The British provided full assistance with the development. Initially, they proposed a modified Eurofighter engine.

[Dima68]

Initially, they planned to use the American GE, then Rolls-Royce took part, and now the Turks are finishing it off with a file.

[solar]

No. The original plan was to use American engines in the first stage, and that's what they're using. It's a common approach: first test the aircraft with proven engines, and then replace the engine with a new one. Like in the Su-57, for example. That's the path the Turks are taking.

then Rolls-Royce got involved

The British initially proposed to modify the engine from the Eurofighter - it is as close as possible to the 5th generation. And
But then they switched to helping the Turks. They're still following that path now.

[TermNachTer]

The British don't have a fifth-generation engine. Their Eurojet EJ200 is a last-century design, slightly redesigned for this one. Do you think the British will simply hand over their latest technology to the Turks? Will they build their own competitor?

[solar]

Will they create their own competitor?

What competitor? The British don't have a 5th-generation aircraft.
Their position is well known. Use cooperation with Turkey to develop expertise for the sixth-generation project. There's a special decree from their cabinet granting maximum-favored-nation treatment to Turkey on the project. The Turks, for their part, are using the upgraded Eurofighter engine as a backup in case something goes wrong with their own engine, and simultaneously to develop expertise. The Turks have even trained on a Rolls-Royce, for example. But first, they want to develop and test an aircraft with a proven engine (from the current version of the F-15EX). Then they'll move on to the new engine. The Turkish project is a cross between the F-22 and F-35.
The Turks have a very pragmatic approach to aircraft development. They plan to deliver the first batch of Block 10 aircraft by 2028 to test their solutions.

[Sergey Mitinsky]

You are so well informed, there is no escape.

Do you know that in England there is a "special regulation" and most importantly, you know how it works!

You know, the Turks are so smart that, given their technological backwardness and out of desperation, they are working with the Eurofighter engine, which is just a little short of the 5th generation engine.

The Turks, according to your information, also went to learn how to fly a Rolls-Royce, which is also a compelling argument for their exceptional foresight, because "first they want to create and test an aircraft with an already proven engine (from a modern version of the F-15EX). And then they'll move on to a new engine."

The Turks have a very pragmatic approach, that's true. Your comments show an even more pragmatic approach.

But your pragmatic approaches to the Turks guarantee nothing but beautiful layouts and colorful chatter.

[TermNachTer]

Who's going to sell the Turks a new American engine, even a fourth-generation one? I work at an aircraft engine plant and understand what a turbojet engine is—how much time and money it takes to create a new one. And here, yesterday we were selling tomatoes at the market, today we're making a fifth-generation engine. China, whose scientific and financial capabilities surpass Turkey's by orders of magnitude, isn't yet capable. The engine seems to exist, but its service life is so limited that it can't be called a mass-produced product. I understand the Turks' interest in telling fools fairy tales and thereby securing funding for their developments. But what's in it for the suckers? Regarding the Turks driving Rolls-Royce cars. There's fierce competition in the aircraft engine market worldwide right now, and therefore no one will ever hand over their promising developments to anyone, because who knows where they'll end up tomorrow.

[solar]

And who will sell the Turks a new American engine, even if it is the 4th generation?

The batch has already been sold; it's enough for the Turks' purposes. They're not planning to install it, after all; it's only for experienced, limited batches—Block 10 and Block 20—and then there will be another one.
The Turks have had a similar engine for a long time - after all, they have the F-16 in service.

It seems like there is an engine, but its service life is such that it cannot be called a serial product.

The Turks are also backing themselves up with the Eurofighter engine and joint work with the British.

And here, yesterday at the market they were selling tomatoes

I haven't been to Turkey in a while, but even then, there wasn't anything Chinese there. It was obvious after our shopping—they had everything local. Even tomatoes :))
And recently, they've seen a noticeable surge in the arms market—missiles, drones, guns, ships—in all areas. They're growing very quickly...

[TermNachTer]

This batch was sold to the Turks for modernization of their F-16s. If they decide to sell them illegally, they'll be very sorry. Turbojet engines aren't like tomatoes; they have end-user certification.

[solar]

This was a separate request for the supply of engines for the new fighter.
The United States is reluctant to supply Turkey with F-35s, but they have no particular objections to other items. The Turks recently purchased another 40 of the newest F-16s and upgrade kits for older F-16s.

The deal involves 40 F-16 Block 70/72 fighter jets in single-seat (F-16C) and two-seat (F-16D) configurations, as well as 79 equipment kits necessary for the modernization and service life extension of Turkish F-16C/D Block 40/50+ aircraft. According to the publication, the deal is valued at $23 billion.

[TermNachTer]

So what's all this about? The engines were sold to them to modernize old F-16s, not for any experiments with the 5th generation.

[Dima68]

Quote: TermNachTER

Will they create their own competitor?

And this happens, it’s worth remembering the appearance of the RD-45, politics can be more important than economics.

[TermNachTer]

When the British sold their engines to the USSR, not just the Nin, they knew that work on turbojet engines was underway in the USSR. German engineers were also involved, meaning the engine would be ready, perhaps in a year or two, but it would be ready. Therefore, by selling their engines, the British lost virtually nothing and received cash for advanced development. Incidentally, the Nin design, with its multiple combustion chambers and centrifugal compressor, proved a dead end. This engine never gained widespread popularity. The basic design became an axial compressor and annular combustion chamber.

[TermNachTer]

Nobody's))) it simply doesn't exist. I seriously doubt the Americans will sell them their engines in commercial quantities. They don't need competitors.

[TermNachTer]

And how much does a non-existent airplane cost? And it's not just the engine. Where did all the avionics, including the radar, come from?

[solar]

Where did all the avionics, including the radar, come from?

Turkish. Gallium nitride radar.

The Turkish company Aselsan is developing a multi-mode airborne radar with a highly jam-resistant active phased array antenna (APAA).

MURAD is a family of solid-state active phased array radar systems developed by the Turkish state-owned company Aselsan. The radar is designed to enhance air combat effectiveness and features advanced multi-mode capabilities for a variety of operational missions. It utilizes cutting-edge technologies to ensure high reliability and performance in a variety of environments. Two Murad radars are currently under development: the Murad 110-A and the Murad 600-A [1].

As of 2024, the MURAD radars have successfully completed the initial stages of testing, including numerous flight tests on various test aircraft. The radar's features include enhancements for land and maritime target surveillance. The first UAV flight test was successfully conducted on March 1, 2025, using the Bayraktar Akıncı UAV.

A radar from this same series is slated for use in upgrading Turkish F-16s. It boasts a modern suite of features, including a terrain mapping mode and a modern gallium nitride base.

In May 2020, the Turkish Aerospace Industries Company (TUSAŞ) signed a contract for the development of software for the TF-X with HAVELSAN.

[TermNachTer]

Was this radar used in a real war? As far as I understand, it's just theoretical performance characteristics and Turkish whims. Only a few countries in the world produce AESA radars; you can count them on your fingers.

[solar]

No, they haven't actually been used; they're just getting ready for serial production. They've actually been developed, but are currently undergoing testing. The new fighter will be equipped with the MURAD-600A AESA radar. A similar version will be used to upgrade Turkish F-16s, and another radar from the same line will be used by UAVs. The Turks are doing everything on a grand scale.

MURAD (Milli Uçak Radarı - National Aviation Radar) is a family of solid-state active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar systems developed by Turkey's state-owned Aselsan. The radar is designed to enhance air combat capabilities and features advanced multi-mode capabilities for a variety of operational missions. It utilizes advanced technologies to ensure high reliability and performance in a variety of environments.[1] Two Murad radars are currently under development: the Murad 110-A and the Murad 600-A.

Radar tests are currently underway.

The first UAV flight test was successfully conducted with the Bayraktar Akıncı UAV on March 1, 2025.

On November 5, 2025, a Turkish F-16 used a Turkish Gökdoğan air-to-air missile with a Murad AESA radar during a test and shot down a target drone.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: novel xnumx

The bird is in the nest, the egg is not ready, but there is already a demand for an omelette!

Maybe so, or maybe not.
What do we know about KAAN? Almost nothing, and that's from our own media. And what are our own media?
Our media, if it's ours, then it has no analogues in the world, if it's foreign, then it's oh, so-so, and also very expensive.
But the Turks! They haven't built a single combat aircraft yet, and now they're making a fifth-generation one!? That's how it's supposed to work.

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

You're still young, not at all experienced! :)))) You don't know everything! There's already the seventh one coming! :)))))

[TermNachTer]

Go to "X" and search—there's everything there, about everything. However, take everything you read with a grain of salt.

[snow mountain]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Will they be able to create their own engine? That is the question.

Everything there, except for the engine, is imported. The name itself is Turkish.

[solar]

On the contrary, everything there is Turkish, including the engine and radar.

[snow mountain]

On the contrary, everything there is Turkish, including the engine and radar.

I advise you to brew your coffee stronger in the morning.

[solar]

It won't change anything for me - I drink decaffeinated coffee.
I advise you to thoroughly inquire about each of the important positions to see what they'll be. You'll be unpleasantly surprised. The Turks are doing everything on a grand scale. For example, they're not just making radars, but a whole line of systems for various missions, all based on a cutting-edge technology—high-temperature gallium nitride.
They also do not reject developments from other countries.

[solar]

It would seem that the same American "Lightning" (Lockheed P-38 Lightning) could have been used. But it didn't work out.

How can I get in? There's a waiting list there for years to come.

[Kitun Evgeniy]

In a museum, maybe. The author certainly screwed up with the P-38. Or so he writes there.

[solar]

I've noticed such blunders on VO so often lately that I've stopped paying attention. I chalk it up to the authors' incompetence :))....

[Carlos Hall]

Spain has already purchased the Hurjet light fighter and may now also buy the Kaan, while Turkey has already purchased warships from Spain. The United States is increasingly supporting Morocco, and Spain views Turkey as a military ally. France supports Greece in its standoff with Turkey, but Spain considers Turkey a significant military power.