Fleet and Politics. The Russian Fleet in the Mediterranean, or How to Enlist the Support of the British

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Fleet and Politics. The Russian Fleet in the Mediterranean, or How to Enlist the Support of the British

So, in 1768, the French were determined to prevent the Russian Empire from winning the war against the Turks, a war they had largely unleashed. Consequently, France and its ally Spain turned out to be hostile to the Russian Empire and would not tolerate its squadrons in the Mediterranean. At the same time, the Baltic fleet was too weak to challenge French naval power.

Sending Russian squadrons to the Mediterranean was only possible if the British interceded on their behalf. They alone could protect our ships from the encroachments of the French and Spanish fleets, but the British were never known for their selflessness. Therefore, to secure this support, it was necessary to understand what British interests our Archipelago Expedition could serve and how the Russian fleet could safeguard these interests—and then "sell" the expedition to the British.

Naval rivalry between France and England in the Mediterranean


The aspirations of Great Britain and France in the eastern Mediterranean were, of course, completely contradictory, but I would like to highlight two points of intersection of their interests.

The first was, of course, maritime trade with territories that were part of the Ottoman Empire. The British were particularly interested in the Levant.


It's not that the British were barred from the Levant, but the French had outpaced Great Britain, becoming the Ottoman Empire's first trading partner. This, of course, didn't sit well with the British. The profits from maritime trade were enormous, so the British desire to push aside the Franks and focus their trade operations on the Levant and the peoples inhabiting the shores of the Mediterranean is entirely understandable.

The second point was, as strange as it may sound, Egypt.

No, there was no talk of building a Suez Canal back then, although it wasn't impossible in the 18th century. A little later, in 1798, Napoleon Bonaparte considered this possibility and ordered preliminary surveys. But even without a canal, Egypt was of great interest to both France and Great Britain.

The trade route linking Europe and India was very, very long in those days—ships had to circumnavigate the entire African continent, past the Cape of Good Hope. A combined land-sea route would have been quite a different matter: across the Mediterranean to the Nile Delta, then down the Nile to Cairo, from there overland to Suez, and from Suez again by sea to India.

Britain would have gladly seized such a route for itself, but it absolutely could not allow the French to use it. Not only would Versailles then gain a significant advantage in trade with Asian countries, but having secured Egypt, the French could continue their expansion by moving overland to India. And what would happen to British rule in the land of elephants and sacred cows?

France also understood Egypt's strategic importance and wanted to establish its dominion there. Moreover, so as not to spoil relations with the Turks, it wanted to do so peacefully. At one point, a highly original theory circulated in France: to acquire Egypt as a gift for its services in containing the Russian Empire, for France's extensive efforts to prevent Russia's expansion at the expense of the Ottoman Empire. This was also taken into account that, although Egypt was nominally part of the Turkish Empire, it was in fact very little dependent on it. Thus, an anonymous author published an article in "Considérations Politiques" asking:

Would it be surprising if the Porte, as a sign of gratitude, agreed to cede to us a country already separated from the (Ottoman) Empire, or at least to grant us the right of free navigation on the Red Sea?

True, this was written in 1783, but even before that the French had been racking their brains over how to “grab” territories that were so advantageous to them.

How could the Russian fleet help Great Britain?


Could Britain have achieved its goal by force? weaponsBy defeating France at sea? It's a difficult question, because the English could certainly destroy the French fleet, but would that be enough? It would be necessary to blockade the French coast to prevent merchant ships from passing through. This, of course, would greatly disrupt trade between France and the Ottoman ports, but it would no less anger the Levantine merchants against England, whose actions had caused such turmoil. How could they then negotiate with them? In any case, if it were possible to intercept trade by force of arms, it would only be through a long and difficult war, something England was not at all eager to undertake. As one English historian wrote:

England, a country of merchants, needed peace to ensure that trade would go well.

Therefore, it would have been absolutely wonderful for Foggy Albion if not its sailors, but someone else’s fleet had interfered with French trade.

What did the Russian fleet plan to do? First, to organize a Greek uprising, as well as a Montenegrin one. Second, to destroy the Turkish fleet. And finally, third, to seize the islands of the Archipelago, that is, the Aegean Sea, the key to the Dardanelles Strait, thereby cutting off maritime transport to Istanbul.

If our naval commanders hadn't succeeded, Great Britain would have gained nothing, but also lost nothing. Relations with the French were already dire, so pressuring France to allow Russian ships through wouldn't have made matters worse. But if the Russian fleet had succeeded...

In this case, Turkish maritime transport in the Mediterranean would be paralyzed, which would have a profoundly negative impact on the prosperity of Levantine merchants. They would, of course, blame France, which had drawn the Ottoman Porte into the war against the Russian Empire. The British, of course, would also suffer for forcing the French to allow the Russian fleet to pass, but the British would be far less compromised than the French. This, in turn, offered excellent opportunities to draw some merchants into the orbit of British trade.

Moreover, it was absolutely clear that if the Russian squadron had established itself in the Eastern Mediterranean, it would have dealt such a crushing blow to France's prestige in Turkey that there would have been no talk in the coming years of any kind of cession of Egypt or of providing France with any other opportunity to implement a combined land-sea route there.

The Russian squadron's actions could well have disrupted the Anglo-French "status quo" in the eastern Mediterranean, which was extremely valuable to the British. But no less important was the fact that by disrupting the French game, the Russian Empire had no chance of profiting from this confusion. Catherine II could not possibly redirect trade with the Levant or Egyptian affairs to her own advantage. The Russian squadron was insignificant compared to British naval power, and the Russian Empire had virtually no merchant navy, much less one in the Mediterranean.

Thus, the benefits for England from the successful operations of the Russian fleet in the Mediterranean were undeniable. Russia, for its part, received from them exactly what it had hoped for: a diversion that would draw away Ottoman troops, thereby improving its chances of victory in the main theater of war.

This was certainly a promising basis for a mutually beneficial agreement. But it was clear that, by gaining ground in the Levant, Great Britain would have to neglect its interests in Europe. As stated earlier, the British had no desire to see the Russian Empire's influence grow, and a victorious war against the Ottomans would undoubtedly have strengthened Russia.

In short, the sirs and peers were weighing the undeniable benefits of Mediterranean trade on one side of the scale, and the danger of an unnecessary strengthening of the Russian Empire as a result of the war with Turkey on the other. To nudge Britain toward the right choice, it was necessary to explain to the British that the Russian Empire was fully aware of the circumstances and had no intention of interfering in trade with the Levant.

Catherine II was also well aware of another point. Britain might currently view the Russian expedition favorably, but if it were to succeed and benefit the British, their position might change. Therefore, the Empress wrote to N. I. Panin for the Russian ambassador in London, asking him, in turn, to do everything he could to reassure the British government:

According to the well-known Jalousie (jealousy - author's note) of all Englishmen towards any maritime enterprises of other powers, it cannot be guaranteed, however, that they will look upon our expedition internally without envy, especially since some fear regarding their Levantine trade will also encourage them against it...

The Russian Empress's political calculation proved correct—she managed to secure the support of the British. As D. Stoker later wrote, though not about this incident:



The nation had clearly shown that the sure and immediate advantages of trade outweighed the distant hopes of political advantage.

Thus, the diplomacy of the Russian Empire paved the way for the Baltic squadrons to enter the Mediterranean. But this was only the first step, only a prerequisite for success. The Russian squadrons had to not only defeat the Turks and stir up rebellion among Christian peoples, but also navigate the thin ice of diplomacy without stumbling. On the one hand, they had to achieve military victories, and on the other, they had to do so in a way that would not provoke the "Jalousies" of the British or succumb to possible French provocations.

Appointment of Count A. G. Orlov as commander of the expedition


No matter how good the Russian sailors were, they lacked diplomatic experience. But for the Archipelago Expedition to be successful, it needed to be led by someone who understood when it was appropriate to plunge headlong into the thick of things, and when not to. E. V. Tarle described the choice of commander as follows:

In equipping an expedition from the Baltic to the eastern Mediterranean, Catherine needed the intelligence, cunning, resourcefulness, and ingenuity of Alexei Orlov, combined with the ability to take risks where necessary and exercise caution where necessary.

Sometimes, one reads online that Count Orlov's choice was made out of gratitude and a desire to elevate a participant in the conspiracy against Peter III, which led to Catherine II's accession to the throne. This is precisely why she managed to entrust command of the Russian squadron to a man who was neither a sailor nor, indeed, well-educated.


But in reality, of course, this was completely untrue. Following the coup, Catherine came to know Alexei Orlov as a ruthless and unstinting man, yet also intelligent and cunning—exactly the kind of man needed for the "sabotage" in the Mediterranean.

Sending emissaries


Naturally, Count Orlov received all the powers he needed, as well as the funds, to organize a Greek uprising in the Morea (Peloponnese). But Catherine II also dispatched emissaries, and not only to the Mediterranean countries. N. Karazin went to Moldova and Wallachia, I. Petushin to Albania, and Evdemirovich and Belic to Montenegro.

At the same time, the Empress wanted Orlov to act as a coordinator, so that the uprising of the Balkan peoples would be simultaneous and universal, rather than degenerating into isolated, disparate uprisings. Catherine II quite rightly pointed out to the Count that "the uprising of each nation separately" useless and unprofitable,

for none of them by themselves is strong enough to be able to do anything other than make one raid and, so to speak, devastate a part of the neighboring land in passing.

The Empress also proposed that Orlov negotiate with the Venetian Republic and win it over to the Russian side, promising the return of the Morea, once held by the Venetians. However, she did not place much emphasis on Venice's involvement, as she believed the latter was too fearful of the Turks, and would therefore only intrigue without providing any assistance.

Ban on corsairism


Knowing Alexei Orlov's extremely versatile nature, Catherine II expressly forbade him from engaging in piracy or issuing charters of corsairship (armatory) permitting him to attack merchant ships of European powers or Christians living under Turkish rule. This was done in order to:

1. Not to turn France against itself, which was already held back from attack only by the threat of the British fleet;

2. Not to give England any reason to think that Russia intends to somehow affect its trade with the Levant;

3. Do not spoil relations with the trading circles of Greece and the Levant.

The latter was important, again, for two reasons. First, Greek merchants could greatly facilitate the Christian uprising, but if offended, they could, on the contrary, hinder it. Second, it was quite obvious that the Archipelago Expedition could continue for several years, and while the war continued, it would need to be supplied somehow. In this regard, friendly ties with the merchants would be very important and useful.

Instructions to the admirals commanding the squadrons sailing to the Archipelago


In total, the Russian Empire dispatched five squadrons to the Archipelago, under the command of G. A. Spiridov, D. Elphinstone, I. N. Arf, V. Ya. Chichagov, and S. K. Greig. Each commander received detailed instructions, specifically outlining the danger posed by France and Spain. Having secured England's support, Catherine the Great understood that the French might nevertheless attempt to provoke the Russian ships, making it appear they were seeking a quarrel and, under cover of a formal pretext, destroy them. Another option was to deliberately dispatch suspicious merchant ships, and then, once the Russians had detained them, attack them. On this point, N. I. Panin wrote to the Russian ambassador in London:

...for this very purpose, perhaps, they will even send French vessels to meet our ships, vessels that, by virtue of their cargo, could cause confusion and delay them during their voyage. From Choazel (French Foreign Minister – author's note), whom we hate, given his dark character, we can expect not only such tactics, but, of course, all manner of lawlessness that could be detrimental to us...

The instructions also stated that the British would be friendly to the Russian Empire, and therefore they could safely stop at their ports and request assistance. However, they specifically stipulated that strict maritime protocol was to be observed with the British and that under no circumstances were they to be offended by inappropriate greetings, improper salutes, etc. In general, they were to keep a low profile with the British and act proactively.

Interestingly, however, while so preoccupied with ensuring her admirals were fully aware of the political situation, Catherine II nevertheless overlooked some important nuances, which led to some friction. For example, after appointing Alexei Grigorievich Orlov as commander of the expedition, she failed to specify the admirals' seniority in her instructions. As a result, G. A. Spiridov and D. Elphinstone had a heated argument during their meeting, and their bickering continued until Count Orlov arrived, which was detrimental to the outcome. However, A. G. Orlov quickly reconciled them. When they appealed to the Count to arbitrate their dispute, Orlov categorically declared that he had no intention of settling the dispute between the venerable admirals, but that they would henceforth obey his orders without question. That, in effect, was the end of the quarrel.

But with I. N. Arf, whose squadron departed for the Archipelago third after G. A. Spiridov and D. Elphinstone, things turned out far more comical. Firstly, I. N. Arf was a foreigner, and so Catherine II gave him a particularly detailed description of the political situation in each of the countries his detachment was supposed to pass through. Then, knowing that I. N. Arf was Danish, and that the ships entrusted to him also contained many Danes, both officers and sailors, the Empress handed the admiral a rescript ordering him to remain commander of his detachment even after it joined G. A. Spiridov and A. G. Orlov.

But the fact was that Catherine II was only concerned with the welfare of the matter, believing that I. N. Arf, unfamiliar with the politics of the Russian Empire, needed more detailed explanations than other admirals, and that he would be more comfortable commanding his fellow countrymen. I. N. Arf, however, was completely intoxicated by such attention, deciding that from now on he was accountable only to the Russian Empress and that neither G. A. Spiridov nor A. G. Orlov could command him.

As a result, upon arriving in the Archipelago, N. I. Arf began to behave openly boorishly, arrogantly not only to Rear Admiral Yelmanov, who had taken the place of the temporarily absent G. A. Spiridov, but even to Count Orlov. To N. I. Arf's perfectly reasonable demands, he responded "impudent" letters, and even threatened to present copies of the correspondence not only to Catherine II, but also to her minister N. I. Panin... Which, given the enmity between the Orlov brothers and this minister, was especially unwise.

Naturally, the situation suddenly became acrimonious, and Aleksey Grigoryevich Orlov quickly brought the overzealous admiral to his senses. It wasn't difficult: Orlov stopped issuing N. I. Arf's "table money," and in return, heaped demands on him, even initiating an investigation into the reasons for the late arrival of N. I. Arf's squadron. And thus, very quickly, he escalated the situation to the point where N. I. Arf requested a return to St. Petersburg, a request A. G. Orlov immediately granted. And at the same time, he himself addressed the following request to Catherine II:

If Your Imperial Majesty is pleased to order a new squadron to be sent here from Russia... I accept the liberty to most humbly ask Your Majesty for the highest favor, that such a squadron be composed of Russian sailors and officers, and that the commanders be entrusted not to foreigners, but to Russians; for from one's own countrymen one can expect not only with the best hope all that the duty of zeal and love for the fatherland demands of them, but also in the bearing of labors, worries and military difficulties, a great difference has already been observed between Russian people and foreigners, and moreover, the lack of understanding of a foreign language creates innocent (involuntary) disagreement and difficulty.

It can therefore be concluded that sending Russian squadrons to the Mediterranean was an extremely complex undertaking given the state of the fleet in 1768, but it also required serious political preparation, without which the Russian ships would have been doomed to fail to reach the Archipelago. Catherine II handled these matters remarkably well, minor shortcomings involving N. I. Arf notwithstanding.

Let us now see how our fleet’s expedition went and what results it led to.

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  1. Fat
    +7
    6 May 2026 07: 03
    hi It's hard to imagine the contortions Catherine II's diplomats had to make to secure favorable conditions for the Mediterranean expedition of 1768. As a result, the British not only provided ports and logistics to the Russian fleet, but also readily sold weapons. They managed to acquire a couple of bombardier ships and several hundred guns of various calibers, including some from the Carron factory. I think Andrei has somewhat cleared the air about the situation in the Mediterranean in 1768-74 and the reasons for British assistance.
    Thank. Good article.
    1. +9
      6 May 2026 07: 16
      It's certainly surprising, a rather complex Russian squadron raid around Europe; most of the ships had never sailed anywhere but the Baltic. A hodgepodge of admirals and a land commander (Orlov). And everything worked out, everything was a success! good drinks The Battle of Chesma itself is a masterpiece! This entire story demonstrates that through the intelligent, combined efforts of diplomacy, the navy, and the military, incredible challenges can be solved!
      1. 0
        6 May 2026 12: 27
        Proxima (Sergey Obolensky), sir, back then, factory and state trials on ships were combined. Battleships built in the Arkhangelsk Admiralty took an average of 45 days to reach Kronstadt, sailing around the Kola Peninsula and Scandinavia. The 66-gun Ingermanland, which left Arkhangelsk on July 1, 1752, reached Kronstadt in 35 days, with favorable winds and no storms. So some of the crew, some of the ships that sailed to the Mediterranean, did have experience in long-distance sea voyages... And today, the "For Long-Distance Voyage" badge is awarded for such a voyage.
    2. 0
      8 May 2026 20: 55
      I agree with you, the article is interesting. Regarding trade, it was beneficial for both sides; without Russian hemp, building a British fleet would have been a real challenge...
  2. +5
    6 May 2026 07: 44
    Thank you!

    Alexei Orlov is a most intriguing historical figure. And given his authority and determination, how could he not achieve success?
    1. Fat
      +4
      6 May 2026 08: 34
      Quote from Korsar4
      How not to achieve success.

      hi A. Orlov is perhaps the most interesting character in the Mediterranean expedition. From the very beginning, he clashed with Rear Admiral Arf, who had been hastily recruited into Russian service in 1770, on the eve of the campaign. At the same time, he promoted the Briton Greig to Rear Admiral. He clearly judged his subordinates primarily by their dedication to service, not their ambitions. It's unlikely that this was due to Samuel Greig's rapid mastery of Russian. I believe it stemmed from the Scotsman's dedication, personally setting fire to fireships in battle, and his demonstrated talent as a naval commander in Russian service.
      1. +4
        6 May 2026 08: 55
        Team selection is probably one of the most important characteristics of a good leader.

        And both Alexei Orlov and Potemkin had a keen eye.

        Just unbridledness. But try to tame such people.
        1. +5
          6 May 2026 10: 48
          Quote from Korsar4
          Just unbridledness. But try to tame such people.

          and most importantly, they thought about the benefit of Russia... I remembered from the "eternal call": "I'll steal a kopeck, and bring in a chervonets' worth of profit" :)
  3. +6
    6 May 2026 09: 35
    ,
    that sending Russian squadrons to the Mediterranean Sea was an extremely difficult matter from the point of view of the state of the fleet in 1768, but in addition, it required serious political preparation, without which the Russian ships were completely doomed to not reach the Archipelago. Catherine II handled these matters very well.

    exactly.

    An objective, interesting article, and there's something to compare it to—there's another series of articles about the Russian fleet running in parallel.
  4. +2
    6 May 2026 11: 57
    And how insulted the English were later when Catherine II rebuffed their request to send soldiers to North America to suppress the rebellion of the 13 colonies.
    They really believed that “the Russians owe them.”
    1. Fat
      +2
      6 May 2026 19: 17
      Quote: Trapper7
      They really believed that “the Russians owe them.”

      Actually, they didn't think so. George III, perhaps. He made a request. Catherine refused, and not without reason. Firstly, in the war of 1768-1774, the Russian Empire lost over 75,000 soldiers and officers, 80% of them due to illness. Secondly, the empress, not without reason, considered George III to be insane. This refusal didn't have much of an impact on trade; otherwise, Catherine II would never have been able to lure Gascoigne to Russia, no matter what the price.
  5. -1
    6 May 2026 12: 53
    It's a shame that, despite so much diplomatic effort and, crucially, a huge amount of financial resources—for which, for the first time in history, Russia incurred a multi-million dollar foreign debt—it was impossible to secure a permanent base in the Mediterranean. Although the historical moment was favorable, both countries, the Republic of Venice and the Knights of Malta, possessed islands and ports suitable for establishing naval bases. The Knights of Malta, meanwhile, were experiencing a severe financial crisis, which led to a popular uprising in 1775. Thus, it would have been possible to try to secure the necessary fortified ports for establishing a naval base with financial support. But apparently, this wasn't a priority at the time.
    1. Fat
      +2
      6 May 2026 13: 32
      Quote: denis.76
      1775 led to a popular uprising.

      hi This wasn't a popular uprising, but a rebellion by the clergy against the leadership of the Order of St. John. The knights suppressed the "popular uprising" in a matter of hours. No one even had time to be truly frightened, much less take any action. smile
    2. Fat
      +2
      6 May 2026 17: 55
      I discovered another important detail that you ignored.
      The Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca was an agreement between the Russian Empire and the Ottoman Empire that ended the Russo-Turkish War of 1768–1774. Signed on July 10 (21), 1774, in the village of Küçük Kaynarca (now Kaynarca, Bulgaria).
      The treaty guaranteed free navigation for Russian ships in the Black Sea and other "Ottoman seas."
      Not for long, though...
      This makes your version just an alternative hypothesis.
      1. -1
        7 May 2026 08: 10
        What does this have to do with it? If we have a restless neighbor, we always need the means to pacify it, and our navy, capable of blockading the Black Sea straits and its capital, is a good way to do that. But the navy needs a base, and not too far from the expected theater of military operations, i.e., the Eastern Mediterranean. Malta is ideal for this, as the British later realized (but they needed it to control Egypt). Furthermore, the warships stationed there could also be used in peacetime to escort merchant ships, since until the mid-19th century, Algerian piracy was a major problem; many European countries simply paid tribute to the Algerian beys so that their ships would not be touched. Therefore, we could ensure the protection of our merchant ships, thereby profiting from protecting those of others.
        1. Fat
          +1
          7 May 2026 08: 31
          Any problems are resolved in the order they arise. The Maltese problem only resurfaced after 1798, when the island was occupied by the French en route to Napoleon's army's march to Egypt.
          What we could have done, but did not, is now in the realm of fantasy, alternative history.
          1. 0
            7 May 2026 10: 01
            Well, only stupid people solve problems after they arise, when the damage has already been done, smart people usually do it before
            1. Fat
              +1
              7 May 2026 10: 44
              You are not very familiar with the situation that developed at the time in question.
              In the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Russian Empire fought against the Confederation of the Bars, alongside the forces of Poniatowski, a protégé of Catherine II. The Confederates chose the Ottomans as allies. During the fighting, the Cossacks, pursuing the Confederates, invaded the Ottoman Empire. The Porte declared war on Russia. And so the problem arose. Were the people of 1768, intelligent or not, suddenly shifting their priorities in response to a new problem?
              Priorities emerge independently of the "player's" plans, although a systematic action plan is also important.
              1. +1
                7 May 2026 10: 52
                Quote: Thick
                During the fighting, the Cossacks, pursuing the Confederates, invaded the Ottoman Empire. The Porte declared war on Russia. This is how the problem arose.

                Only the "Cossacks" had nothing to do with the Russian Empire and suffered punishment at the hands of Russia in the presence of the Turks.
                1. Fat
                  +2
                  7 May 2026 11: 02
                  So this is a pretext for declaring war, not a reason.
                  1. +2
                    7 May 2026 11: 20
                    Quote: Thick
                    So this is a reason to declare war

                    This is undoubtedly true
    3. +2
      7 May 2026 09: 42
      Quote: denis.76
      failed to obtain a permanent base in the Mediterranean. Although it was a favorable historical moment,

      There had never been such a moment. The French couldn't stand us, and the British, if we tried to gain a foothold in the Mediterranean, would immediately reconsider their attitude toward us, since neither England nor France needed us there.
      1. 0
        7 May 2026 10: 00
        As the saying goes, "You'll get used to it, you'll love it," about the French, but the British needed us back then against those same French. They would have given us money, too. They wanted to rent our fleet during the war of 1778-1783 and send it to the Mediterranean against the Spanish and the French.
        1. +2
          7 May 2026 10: 42
          Quote: denis.76
          As they say about the French, "You'll get used to it, you'll love it," and the British needed us back then against those same French.

          See Russo-English War 1807-1812.
          1. -1
            7 May 2026 11: 59
            Well, we did our own thing there. Blessed Alexander I concluded the shameful Treaty of Tilsit with Napoleon after the defeat at Friedland and joined the "continental blockade" against Britain, and even started a war against Britain's last ally on the mainland, Sweden. Understandably, Britain didn't like this, but who would like that? So that evil man, Alexander I, also squandered the Ionian Islands, won by the Pope and the valiant Admiral Ushakov, and returned them to the French. This left the valiant Admiral Senyavin without a base in the Mediterranean, forcing him to urgently depart for his homeland. But along the way, misfortune arose: friendly Lisbon, occupied by the brave French, was overrun by the equally brave British, and the valiant Admiral Senyavin was forced to surrender his entire fleet to the British due to the latter's clear superiority in forces. But if Malta had been ours, there would have been no need for internment.
            1. +2
              7 May 2026 15: 21
              Quote: denis.76
              Well, we did our best there ourselves.

              What I mean is that the situation has changed repeatedly.
              Quote: denis.76
              the shameful Treaty of Tilsit

              And what's so shameful about it, considering the company's loss?
              Quote: denis.76
              If Malta were ours, we wouldn't have to be interned.

              Well, yeah. That's where they would have caught us...
        2. +2
          7 May 2026 10: 51
          Quote: denis.76
          As they say about the French, "You'll get used to it, you'll love it,"

          Why would I?:)))))
          Quote: denis.76
          and the British needed us then against the same French.

          They weren't needed at all. The British could handle the French at sea on their own, but they had absolutely no need for a permanent Russian naval presence in the Mediterranean—given their trade interests, they had absolutely no need for a third player.
          1. -2
            7 May 2026 12: 08
            The British couldn't cope with the French at sea alone just ten years later in the 1778-1783 war, losing Minorca in the Mediterranean and potentially losing Gibraltar, which had been under siege for three years. And the British really needed us as an ally there; they themselves offered us Minorca if only they'd send soldiers to America to fight Washington and a fleet to the Mediterranean to fight the French and Spanish.
  6. +1
    6 May 2026 18: 34
    I think the trade between Russia and Britain has been underestimated. It was a major and highly profitable partner. It can be compared with the volumes of other countries. In many cases, English merchants had an advantage over other foreign suppliers.
    In fact, political interstate agreements largely depend on the interests of the financial and trade elites of states, and these interests cannot be ignored by the political leadership.

    1. Great Britain is the main trading partner
    Indicator Volume (approx. 1770) Export from Russia Import to Russia
    Total turnover ~10–12 million rubles ~8–9 million rubles ~2–3 million rubles
    Main export commodities: Bread (30–40% of total exports), flax, hemp, resin, lard, leather
    Main imported goods: Textiles (cotton, wool), metals (iron, copper), weapons, watches, glass, furniture
    Britain was the main buyer of Russian grain, especially through Arkhangelsk and Kronstadt. A trade treaty was signed in 1766, simplifying duties and guaranteeing rights for British merchants.
    Ratio: ~3:1 in favor of Russia - the highest surplus among all partners.

    2. France is an elite importer
    Indicator Volume (approx. 1770) Export from Russia Import to Russia
    Total turnover ~4–5 million rubles ~1–1.5 million rubles ~3–3.5 million rubles
    Main export goods: Small quantities of flax, leather, wax (through intermediaries)
    Main imported goods: Wines (Burgundy, champagne), silk, perfumes, furniture, books, porcelain, fashion fabrics
    France was the main source of luxury goods for the nobility and aristocracy. Russia imported more than it exported—a deficit of two to three times.
    Ratio: ~1:3 – the only major partner with a negative balance for Russia.

    3. Holland is a transit and raw materials partner
    Indicator Volume (approx. 1770) Export from Russia Import to Russia
    Total turnover ~6–7 million rubles ~4–5 million rubles ~2–3 million rubles
    Main export goods: Bread (especially via Riga and Dvinsk), hemp, wax
    Main imported goods: Sugar, spices, fabrics, salt, manufactured goods, finance (loans)
    The Dutch were the main intermediaries in trade between Russia and the East Indies (tea, spices). They also provided credit to Russian merchants.
    Ratio: ~2:1 – surplus in Russia’s favor, but less than Britain’s.

    4. Prussia and Poland – transit and nearby markets
    Indicator Volume (approx. 1770) Export from Russia Import to Russia
    Total turnover ~5–6 million rubles ~3.5–4 million rubles ~1.5–2 million rubles
    Main export products: Bread, flax, lard
    Main imported goods: Metals, weapons, salt, fabrics, furniture
    Prussia was an important transit corridor for Russian grain to Western Europe. After the partitions of Poland (1772–1795), trade ties intensified.
    Ratio: ~2:1 - surplus, but smaller than Britain's.

    5. Denmark and Sweden are Nordic partners
    Indicator Volume (approx. 1770) Export from Russia Import to Russia
    Total turnover ~2–3 million rubles ~1.5–2 million rubles ~0.5–1 million rubles
    Main export commodities: Bread, flax, resin
    Main imported goods: Salt, wood, seafood, wine
    Denmark controlled the straits and was essential for access to the Baltic. Sweden was a supplier of timber and iron.
    Ratio: ~2:1 - surplus, small volume.
    1. +4
      6 May 2026 18: 47
      Quote: balabol
      It seems to me that the factor of trade between Russia and Britain has been underestimated.

      Well, how can I put it? On the one hand, you're absolutely right about the importance of this trade. But on the other hand, it would have been lost if the British had refused to cover our fleet's voyage to Middle-earth. Therefore, I don't see this factor as significant for this particular decision.
      1. +1
        6 May 2026 20: 47
        I can't put a numerical value on the impact of Russian exports to Britain. But the impact of importing strategic goods—grain and timber—is quite significant. A negative trade balance is rare for Britain, so they desperately needed these goods and were loath to lose this channel. Perhaps, had they not feared supply restrictions, Britain would have been more proactive in helping the Ottomans weaken Russia. Russia's free access to the Mediterranean, with the potential for disrupting the maritime trade route to India, was not advantageous to them.
        1. Fat
          0
          7 May 2026 06: 44
          I believe that the main export commodity from the Russian Empire to Britain during the Age of Sail was hemp. This particularly strong fiber was used, among other things, to make ropes for the spars of sailing ships. It was certainly a strategic material.
          1. 0
            7 May 2026 10: 24
            spar ropes
            1. Let's try to define the terms that reference books tell us.
            The rigging is the combination of all wooden (or metal) vertical and horizontal masts, mainmasts, bowsprits and other supporting structures on which the sails are attached.
            Spar composition:
            Element Description
            Mainmast The main, tallest mast, usually in the center of the ship.
            Foremast The forward mast, shorter than the mainmast.
            Cross mast The aft mast, usually the shortest.
            Bowsprit A horizontal outrigger at the front of the bow for attaching the front sails.
            Topgallants, yards, gaffs Horizontal beams on masts to which sails are attached.
            Function: Support of sails, transfer of wind load to the hull.
            Material: In the age of sail, high-quality pine (often from Russia), grown in straight, long logs.

            Rigging
            Rigging is the system of ropes, cables, chains, and halyards that support, stabilize, and control the masts and sails.
            There are two main types of rigging:
            Type Purpose Examples of elements
            Staysail rigging (Stays) Keeps the masts from falling forward/backward Staysails, topgallant staysails, bowsprit rigging
            Shrouds Keep the masts from tilting laterally Backstays, Mainstays, Topgallant Stays
            Running rigging Controls the sails (raising, lowering, tensioning) Shrouds, booms, braces, sheets, halyards
            Control of the position of masts and sails, transfer of wind force into the movement of the ship.
            Material: Ropes (hand twisted), impregnated with resin for protection against moisture.
            2. You're right that supplies from Russia, both for spar timber (northern pine) and rigging materials (flax, hemp), were quite important. It's difficult to assess how irreplaceable and significant these supplies from Russia are. And it's not just about money. Something similar is currently being observed with rare earth metals or uranium supplies. The global market for rare earth metals is 10-15 billion rubles per year, and the volume of products made from them is 100 (the figure of 100 is not exact; it could be 1000) times greater.
            3. Big politics, big commerce, and economics are inextricably linked. Moreover, during periods of evolutionary development, economics prevails, while during a crisis, politics often destroys economics, clearing the way for a new economic order.
            1. Fat
              0
              7 May 2026 11: 00
              Okay, standing and running rigging are a separate topic. But the British were hooked on Russian supplies of strategic hemp like a drug addict on a needle... Flax, lard, and resin weren't as important.
              With respect.
              1. 0
                7 May 2026 11: 29
                The British are heavily dependent on Russian supplies
                That's exactly what I'm saying. I completely agree.
                You have to search, but somewhere in niche literature I came across references to the British's own assessments of the significance of these supplies. They valued them very highly and had no intention of losing them.
      2. 0
        7 May 2026 08: 31
        I agree that trade was mutually beneficial, and no one would have stopped it regardless of whether Britain had helped us or not. We traded with Britain even when it was formally our adversary in the Seven Years' War of 1756-1763. It was simply that at that time, Britain benefited from the presence of a Russian fleet in the Mediterranean, which was unfriendly to France, since it created a potential threat to France and reduced the risk for Britain that France would take action against Britain to exact revenge for France's disastrous Seven Years' War. Therefore, we indirectly helped the British, although the French eventually got their revenge during the War of 1778-1783, when England lost Minorca and nearly lost Gibraltar.
        1. +2
          7 May 2026 09: 41
          Quote: denis.76
          It was simply that at that time the presence of a Russian fleet in the Mediterranean Sea, which was unfriendly to France, was beneficial to Britain, since it created a potential threat to France.

          No. I already wrote here, https://topwar.ru/281652-flot-i-politika-obstojatelstva-otpravki-rossijskogo-flota-v-sredizemnoe-more-v-russko-tureckuju-vojnu-1768-1774-gg.html that
          In 1768, the French fleet consisted of 66 ships of the line and 41 frigates, not counting small vessels. It's quite clear that even if the Russian Baltic Fleet had been able to bring all 20 ships of the line and 8 frigates to sea, it wouldn't have stood a chance against the French, and the first Archipelago Expedition, with its 7 ships of the line and 1 frigate, was a mere match for the French. And that's not to mention the fact that Spanish ships were ready to join the French fleet...

          That is, what was beneficial to Britain was not the presence of an allied squadron (especially since we were not their allies; England did not want to enter into a military alliance with us at that time), but the disruption to France’s trade affairs that our ships would cause by acting against the Turks.
          1. 0
            7 May 2026 10: 14
            Well, you yourself wrote that our fleet didn't actually disrupt trade, much less capture neutral ships. Then, the first squadron consisted of seven ships of the line, and then, by 1772, four more squadrons were sent, each with three ships of the line, which, even accounting for losses, amounts to about 20 ships of the line. Then, France couldn't keep all its ships of the line in the Mediterranean; it needed to keep a squadron in Brest permanently, and then there were numerous overseas territories that also required protection. Therefore, they had to factor the Russian fleet's presence in the Mediterranean into their foreign policy calculations.
            1. +2
              7 May 2026 10: 49
              Quote: denis.76
              Well, you yourself wrote that our fleet did not actually destroy trade and, moreover, did not capture the ships of neutral countries.

              And this was not necessary. I wrote
              ...Turkish maritime transport in the Mediterranean would be paralyzed, which would have a profoundly negative impact on the prosperity of Levantine merchants. They would, of course, blame France, which had drawn the Ottoman Empire into the war against the Russian Empire. The British, of course, would also suffer for forcing the French to allow the Russian fleet to pass, but the British would be far less compromised than the French. This offered excellent opportunities to draw some merchants into the orbit of British trade.
              Moreover, it was absolutely clear that if the Russian squadron had established itself in the Eastern Mediterranean, it would have dealt such a crushing blow to France's prestige in Turkey that there would have been no talk in the coming years of any kind of cession of Egypt or of providing France with any other opportunity to implement a combined land-sea route there.

              And that was quite enough.
              1. -1
                7 May 2026 12: 43
                Well, I don't think our fleet really disrupted maritime transport throughout the Eastern Mediterranean, and the war didn't lead to a deterioration in Ottoman-French relations or any trade restrictions for the French. Rather, I'd suggest you consider another factor: Corsica. As is well known, the French not only incited the Turks to war with Russia but also aided the Polish Confederates in their war with Russia for Polish independence. This infuriated Catherine, and she wanted to repay the French in kind. And just as the first squadron was being prepared for dispatch to the Mediterranean in the spring of 1769, a war for independence was raging in Corsica, this time against the French, and Catherine sympathized with the Corsicans, as evidenced in her letters. So the British could well have expected that Russia would help not only the Greeks against the Turks but also the Corsicans against the French, although perhaps not so overtly. Moreover, Menorca and Livorno, where the Russian fleet was based in the Mediterranean, weren't that far from Corsica, much closer than the Aegean Sea. Therefore, this could well have been another incentive for the British, but the French managed to defeat the Corsicans on May 9, 1769, at the Battle of Ponte Novo, and their leader Paoli fled to England on June 13 of that year, while our fleet departed Kronstadt only in July 1769. So, they were a bit late, as it happens.