Military Review

Shale gas

78
The topic that has recently been scared of Russia is no longer hamster instability and international flogging for a position on Syria. With this, thank God, the president of Russia has already figured out and, apparently, this finds the understanding and full support of the Russians. Those who are still talking about something like muttering could appreciate how the lepers felt in the Middle Ages.


Now there are simply no real topics to which it would be necessary to respond. So you need to invent them. Why should I forgive so hard to try? The answer here is simple - to intimidate and have at least some leverage. Because neither the United States nor the EU has any real levers of influence on Russia. Generally no. So, there should have been such a topic that should hit the very heart of the Russian economy. Such a topic was found - shale gas. It may seem that shale gas production has developed without regard to Russia, and this will be true, but the topic is still dragged behind the ears by gentlemen from overseas and generously flavored with speculations on this topic. Is Russia ready for this turn of events? It turned out that she was ready, and even as ready.

I must say that what we are so persistently assured is not quite so, and even not at all. For example, it is said that the United States can supply Europe with gas, as it is about to become an exporter from gas importers. The author will allow himself to doubt both in one and in the other. Let's try to speculate on this topic.

Everyone remembers the thunders of thunder declaring the development of shale gas reserves in Poland with a volume of 5,3 trillion cubic meters. m, which is enough for 300 years of consumption. And what, I ask you this time? What happened to this very shale gas? I will be forced to answer myself that nothing has become. Those companies that loudly declared their intentions to “give gas” in abundance, as they say in the whole baptized world, one by one were blown away quietly. In addition, the Polish stocks themselves were adjusted downward by 90%!

Let's talk about it specifically with names and numbers. So, three companies briskly entered the game, two of them were American: Marathon Oil and Talisman Energy and the Polish state-owned company Lotos. Already at the end of the first quarter of 2013, it became clear that all this was a manufacturing bullshit, and this belief was not just. So, Marathon Oil stated that it sells its rights to develop shale deposits in 2014 and the declared value of these rights is $ 12mln. The company has identified its attempts to find shale gas as "unsuccessful."

The second American company Talisman Energy also decided to leave the Polish shale gas market, and they say that they want to get their assets from the Irish San Leon Energy. Polish state-owned Lotos entered into an agreement on joint development of 4 sites with PGNiG, but the matter did not go further. PGNiG later stated that it supports the idea of ​​developing shale gas, but this is not related to cooperation with Lotos. That is, in this case there was a puncture.

However, the greatest blow to the idea of ​​self-sufficiency in Poland with gas was the actions of ExxonMobil, which sold its assets immediately after the forecasts for the presence of shale gas in Poland were not confirmed after drilling. In order to sweeten the pill, it was said that the cost of gas production is extremely high and the cost of gas will be about $ 300 per 1000 cube. In the USA, this figure is approximately the same, but there is a government subsidy in $ 1000 for every 200 cubes. Now I see why the price is $ 100? It is also probably clear why it cannot be less than $ 350 when delivered to the EU. In this case, there will be no subsidies, but there will be transportation and cheating, so also under 400 bucks - take it out and put it down.

Next begins quite funny история, which brings to clear water the failure of arguments about cheaper shale gas. After the announcement of the high cost of Polish gas, oddly enough, 111 drilling permits were issued. Investors are not fools at all, and they, of course, understand that if the US has enough gas for almost $ 100 for 1000 cubes, then what's the point of investing in drilling to produce gas for $ 300? Investors are not like sick people. Where it will be more convenient for them to simply buy up gas in the USA and deliver it to the same Poland, and the jackpot will be much larger.

Nevertheless, apparently, it is not so simple here - the reader will understand and, of course, he will be right. First, in the US, shale gas forecasts are inflated to disgrace. Secondly, gas in the United States is so low in price only because of government subsidies, and only because there is no such market for the United States in such volumes, of course. Even near big New York, there is no gas in some towns on Long Island. There both heating and hot water are heated by electricity. What can we say about some North Dakota forgotten by God. If only gas starts flowing outside the United States, and there is already permission for such exports, prices will immediately go up, because American gas will have a market that is not there now and there will be no more subsidies. The capitalists do not have such a law to trade goods at half the market price.

This is confirmed by the same investors who buy drilling concessions based on the cost of $ 300 per 1000 cubes. They understand that the price will be high. That natural gas and oil will always be more profitable. The Polish newspaper Dziennik Gazeta Prawna writes that the state-owned Lotos decided to return to the exploration of traditional hydrocarbons. Polish Ministry of Economy prefers to evade comments on these topics.

This is where everything really begins. Russian President Putin understands very well that the fear is best driven up by prices on the exchanges. Remember what happened to oil after landing Khodorkovsky. Very good carom when the thief is punished and the prices of hydrocarbons soared. Putin is a great master in politics, since his policy so firmly holds the economy in a heated state and drives prices up. Well, of course, wars in the Middle East also help.

And now it has been stated that the country needs to build more gas stations. That is, Russia plans to consume more of its own gas, and against the background of negative forecasts for shale gas in Poland and a categorical ban on the development of shale gas in Germany, of course, prices will not only not fall, but even climb up. In addition, if gas consumption increases in Russia, Western investors will come to this sector of the economy. The prices for gasoline and gas in Russia are only growing, with this you can make good and safe money today. Well, who can tell come to the Russian market and interrupt the trade? Oh, in any case, not Poland with shale gas and not Ukraine either. Moreover, these two very small countries will continue to be consumers of Russian hydrocarbons at higher prices. By the way, the statement that Ukraine reduces the consumption of Russian gas is not true. This is the case here. Naftagaz really reduced gas purchases for Ukraine, but now private companies are buying more gas and are also oriented to the Ukrainian market, so there are no miracles here. Here we are dealing with another phenomenon, when the state Naftogaz is simply being squeezed out of the market, that's all. There is no decrease in Ukraine’s dependence on Russian gas.

As for the Germans, their decision is completely understandable. The Germans decided to abandon nuclear energy due to ecology. But this is located on the surface of the earth and is quite amenable to some kind of recreational measures to restore the environment in the event of an accident at a nuclear power plant. In the case of shale gas, the solution that breaks the layers, it is sand water and chemicals that are injected into special underground tanks after use, it is not possible to check their tightness, they are more dangerous than nuclear power plants on the surface. The leakage of chemically dirty waters, and their ingress into underground aquifers, cannot be controlled. One day a country may be without its own reserves of pure fresh water, and plus will cause environmental damage to its neighbors. So what is "abstinence" is quite logical.

The US policy looks interesting. As is known, the United States kept their wells sealed due to fears of contamination in oil and gas production. And they are not afraid of poisoning the environment with chemicals for hydraulic fracturing of shale formations. Is it so? Of course, not so. Shale gas - this is another layout, which "bloody Putin" is not conducted. Moreover, it seems that he manages not only to play the situation, but also to make significant progress.
Originator:
http://contrpost.com/en/78-2013-05-10-13-45-19/1465-2013-05-15-23-05-02
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  1. andrei332809
    andrei332809 18 May 2013 15: 25
    10
    yeah, take away denyuzhku from our bureaucrats, it’s easier to dig a grave for yourself. but what I can’t understand is what is the price of gasoline and gas in Russia. Or is our country an importer of hydrocarbons?
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 18 May 2013 15: 29
      21
      The answer is simple - speculators and the lack of state regulation of pricing in the conditions of a mopoly are to blame.
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 18 May 2013 18: 23
        11
        Quote: Iraclius
        The answer is simple - speculators and lack of state regulation are to blame

        The answer is even simpler - we are still in occupation and are not able to resist it legally))) (a thought, honestly, not mine - everyone already knows about it))).
        But our geopolitical enemies did not have the strength at all, only show-offs)) (this - mine, I admit)).
        They have one way out - they set the rats on us)).
      2. SASCHAmIXEEW
        SASCHAmIXEEW 19 May 2013 08: 46
        +2
        The answer is even simpler, Putin and K, in proportion !!!
    2. Tatarus
      Tatarus 18 May 2013 15: 42
      16
      Russian subsoil is a leading exporter of hydrocarbons. And in Russia, high prices. Soooo ... Well, either the subsoil is not Russian or we do not live in Russia
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 18 May 2013 15: 54
        12
        If eastern Ukraine is destroyed under this project, then black water will flow from the taps not only there, but also in Rostov, Belgorod, etc. (One must watch the watershed).
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 18 May 2013 15: 59
          12
          Speak correctly. When producing shale gas, the concept of water stress is important. Simply put, the presence of large quantities of good fresh water. In Ukraine, this seems to be in full order, right? It seems so. Althoughaaaaaa ... Here's a picture:

          I can’t enlarge, I'm sorry. The point is that most of the northern Black Sea coast and part of Ukraine are located in arid regions with a shortage of drinking water. So the massive production of shale gas / oil in Ukraine is an inadmissible luxury from the point of view of providing water resources.
          1. MG42
            MG42 18 May 2013 19: 39
            11
            Quote: Iraclius
            mass production of shale gas / oil in Ukraine is an inadmissible luxury in terms of water availability.

            The current government of the Ukrainian. this is not an argument, they have the main profit and the price of gas for their enterprises, in the Donbass there are already environmental problems caused by coal mining and the work of metallurgical plants, waste heaps have been there since the times of the USSR, and shale gas will "finish off" groundwater ...
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 18 May 2013 19: 42
              +6
              The fact of the matter is that water stress is secondary to Ukraine. The main thing here is that shale gas production in Ukraine is unprofitable due to the large occurrence depth (4-6 km) and the lack of associated reserves of shale oil and is unlikely to ever become such.
              1. MG42
                MG42 18 May 2013 20: 17
                +8
                Quote: Iraclius
                The main thing here is that shale gas production in Ukraine is unprofitable

                And where it is cost-effective, Poland is also a bummer.
                Quote: Iraclius
                that water stress is secondary to Ukraine.

                Ecology have time to spoil.
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 18 May 2013 21: 00
                  10
                  Quote: MG42
                  And where it is cost-effective, Poland is also a bummer.

                  I know for certain only in the United States - most of the shale deposits there lie above the "oil window", between the upper and lower boundaries of which the conversion of kerogen into oil is possible - the most valuable product that can be squeezed out of shale.
                  North Dakota and specifically Bakken is the best shale formation for oil production in the United States.

                  On Bakken, due to its geological location, which is unique from the point of view of oil production, nobody suffers with natural (shale) gas, preferring to burn it right away in near-bottom torches. After all, this gas is too unstable composition, contains a lot of harmful impurities, and it is emitted offensively little - tens or hundreds of cubic meters per day - you can not fail the gas pipeline. Actually, this says it all - if in the US no one is steaming with more or less large volumes of shale gas, then what will be better in Poland and Ukraine?
                  As an oilman, I would strongly recommend the Ukrainian leadership to score these dances with a tambourine and, finally, to deal with the most important thing - their people and the establishment of relations with Russia, their own sister.
                  1. piotr534
                    piotr534 19 May 2013 01: 32
                    +5
                    All this talk about shale gas in Ukraine, show-offs for visitors who have one goal to talk Volodya to reduce the price of Russian gas. But Volodya is not a sucker and sees all these Yanukovych through and through. laughing
                2. Nick
                  Nick 19 May 2013 07: 43
                  +3
                  Quote: MG42
                  And where it is cost-effective, Poland is also a bummer.

                  The article shows that it is cost-effective, though at a price of $ 400 per 1000 cubic meters ... BUT! The cost does not include environmental costs! For some reason they are not considered. Apparently with modern technologies they are so high that there is no talk of protecting and restoring the environment damaged as a result of shale gas and oil production.
          2. Suhov
            Suhov 19 May 2013 01: 28
            +4
            Quote: Iraclius
            So the massive production of shale gas / oil in Ukraine is an inadmissible luxury in terms of water availability.

            Garny wassat shale gas!
      2. Alexei
        Alexei 18 May 2013 18: 48
        +8
        Quote: Tatarus
        Russian subsoil is a leading exporter of hydrocarbons. And in Russia, high prices. Soooo ... Well, either the subsoil is not Russian or we do not live in Russia

        Prices are definitely overpriced. But oil is different. On oil, say, from some Arab country, you can drive a car, though the engine will lock up. This oil is cleaner than Russian, requires less refining, and therefore gasoline itself is cheaper. In addition, for some reason, it seems to me that well drilling in Arab countries is not as steamy as ours. So all by comrades. The prices for combustible materials will decrease only when they are not affordable for consumers. This is business, this is capitalism.
        1. Mikhail m
          Mikhail m 18 May 2013 19: 46
          +5
          The excise taxes on gasoline are far from the same as in the Arab countries ...
        2. papas-57
          papas-57 18 May 2013 23: 08
          +2
          Our prices will never go down, because we do not have capitalism, but the `` wild west '' of the XNUMXth century in America
      3. survivor
        survivor 19 May 2013 06: 46
        +2
        I want in the USSR, I want in the USSR ...
        such a joke was once
    3. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 18 May 2013 17: 50
      24
      But where are those "specialists" who here on the site quite recently argued hoarsely about the fact that our authorities (specifically PUTIN) slept through the "shale revolution!"
      you guys have some double standards ...
      first you portray that you are very enlightened in this matter, and now either we are silent in a rag, or we sing eulogies ...
      on the site, according to my observations, about 10-15% of "talkers" and "kitchen scientists".
      straight real chameleons ...
      hello to all those who do not fit these names)))))
      good mood and wonderful day!

      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 18 May 2013 18: 29
        0
        So the same Leontiev and "However"! They can't be against yavrov ...
        1. Dilshat
          Dilshat 19 May 2013 00: 23
          +3
          Well, an old woman is a bitch. If Leontyev admits that he was mistaken at the expense of the slates, then a man, if not, it means just a talking head.
    4. kris
      kris 19 May 2013 10: 54
      0
      Quote: andrei332809
      yeah, take away denyuzhku from our bureaucrats, it’s easier to dig a grave for yourself. but what I can’t understand is what is the price of gasoline and gas in Russia. Or is our country an importer of hydrocarbons?

      And the author of the article beautifully kept silent about this.
      He wrote about the hamsters who are to blame for everything, about the west, which is to blame for all the troubles of Russia.
      He said that there were no levers of influence on the "rulers", forgetting about their loot abroad.
      But this phrase conquered:"Prices for gasoline and gas in Russia are only growing, and today you can make good and safe money on this."

      At the same time indicating the price of gas at the striped.
      Forgetting to say that gas stations are being built because of the opportunity to sell gas in Russia more expensive than in Europe.
      And if people want to be outraged because of the insane prices for gasoline, a communal apartment, electricity, gas, etc., then devoted power trolls and talking heads from a zombie creature will quickly classify them as swamp hamsters.
      And the loyal policeman devotees with zeal will comply with the law on rallies.
      A day later, cheap campaigns appear in support of Putin.
      The authors compete in licking the fifth point to their idol.
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 19 May 2013 11: 25
        +5
        Quote: kris
        And if people want to be outraged because of the crazy prices for gasoline, a communal apartment, electricity, gas, etc.

        Crazy domestic energy prices, as you know, the main condition imposed on Russia by a whole system of international treaties that allows you to purchase equipment and technologies (adopted Bill Magnitsky, by the way, their direct violation).
        There is one more aspect. During the reform of natural energy monopolies, a significant part of them ceased to be Russian. Therefore, high prices are a way of collecting tribute.
        Putin systematically and persistently cuts off pseudo-human tails, incl. and the like. And you do not give yourself the trouble to cut into it and, as a result, work for the enemy)).
        1. kris
          kris 20 May 2013 21: 28
          0
          Quote: ctepx
          There is one more aspect. During the reform of natural energy monopolies, a significant part of them ceased to be Russian. Therefore, high prices are a way of collecting tribute.
          Putin systematically and persistently cuts off pseudo-human tails, incl. and the like. And you do not give yourself the trouble to cut into it and, as a result, work for the enemy)).

          It turns out the fattening director of our management company collects tribute from me in favor of foreigners! laughing laughing
          Chart of rising gas prices.
          Something when chopping off Putin's tails, prices rose 3-4 times.
          1. CTEPX
            CTEPX 21 May 2013 04: 51
            0
            Quote: kris
            Something when chopping off Putin's tails, prices rose 3-4 times.

            If prices have tripled and incomes have tripled, then this is not a problem)).
            Cutting off the tails is to ensure that our taxes and other budgets work for us, and not to service pseudo-human super-needs)).
            There are plenty of ways to "honestly" take money from THEM. For example, a young man trained by us leaves to work for THEM - this is a way of taking money from our budget)).
  2. Iraclius
    Iraclius 18 May 2013 15: 27
    16
    All these cries about the imminent end of Russia's energy dominance in the world market are nothing more than hysteria. Because the whole world infrastructure is completely and completely tied to oil. And very reluctantly and with great difficulty, it is switching to natural gas. Before any large-scale production of shale gas, some time should still pass. But it can never completely replace oil. So everything in Russia will be in perfect order. It is only necessary to resume serious research and fence the Arctic so that some cunning neighbors do not open their mouths on someone else's honey.
  3. Iraclius
    Iraclius 18 May 2013 15: 36
    +9
    Here, by the way, about the bummer of Ukraine. The quote contains facts that any graduate of the oil technical school in the USSR knows. But why the large American specialists from Talisman Energy did not know about this - for me there is a great mystery! wassat
    So, the breakdown of covers about Ukrainian and Polish shale gas.
    As you know, most of the American shale lies at depths of 2-2,5 km, above the "oil window". The Ukrainian shale (or rather, dense sandstone) lies below the "oil window" at depths of 4-6 km and is devoid of oil and, to a large extent, condensate for exactly the same reasons - nature simply "does not provide" for the formation of long chains of hydrocarbons on such depths of oil source rocks.


    Therefore, Ukraine will not have to extract "cheap" shale oil and cheerfully burn "unnecessary" shale gas. On the contrary, Ukraine will have to count every penny of revenues from the exploitation of deposits, otherwise Shell economists will gladly justify it. Moreover, they will justify so that the state of Ukraine will have only roots, but the tops will settle in the pockets of the American partner quite manageably.

    ***
    For clarity. These are fat and rich "roots".


    But these are beggars. But even they never dreamed of Poland and Ukraine.


    In the photo - shale condensate production by hydraulic fracturing.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 18 May 2013 22: 29
      +3
      Well, maybe because the dashing guys who got the US therweds with hundreds of thousands of tons of oil (remember the jagged well in the Gulf of Mexico?) Were controlled by a specialist in ... the release of door locks. Seriously, BP's CEO has been doing just that all his life, until he was "promoted." Of course, under him, BP conducted work in such a way that our technical supervision would have embraced Kondraty at the first glance. It's good to save when you don't understand anything, especially not aware of the danger ...
      This is the current approach to the selection of leading personnel. Are you satisfied with the bank? Sure! After all, an oilman himself is expensive, and drilling activities require expensive ones! And a specialist in door chains is immeasurably cheaper. So it seems to me that on closer examination of the "big American specialists" it might turn out funny.
      And further. Unable to cope with technology, modern blowjobs venerate marketing as a sacred thing. The name Talisman Energy is absolutely impossible for a company that is going to do serious work for many years. According to the "theories" of marketing (which of them really does not work theories, of course. It's just statistics) an organization with an overly beautiful name cannot exist for more than 3 years. Proven for centuries ...
  4. Asgard
    Asgard 18 May 2013 15: 36
    37
    Well, as a geologist by education I will say my word))) the title of the article is correct)))
    Shale gas was produced first (than natural)) it was a long time ago, the year 1862 it seems)) it ended quickly and had to drill a new well, then we came up with hydraulic fracturing, and a lot of voids Slightly extended the life of the well, but profitability was minus (deep))), then we learned to do directional drilling (along the formation (to make it clear)) increased profitability, but it remained negative anyway))))

    The fact that right now there is hysteria about Shale gas means it’s beneficial to someone. Moreover, you can work on this gas if there is a printing press on the rig (or somewhere nearby))) ....) ....
    It's like an integral part of "drilling equipment" ....
    The introduction of shale technologies is the SDI program, This is a "lunar project", this is a new fifth generation fighter that does not fly)))))
    And of course, the barbaric attitude towards Planet Midgard-Earth ....
    1. scrack
      scrack 18 May 2013 16: 50
      10
      I especially liked about the money press at the rig laughing
    2. Averias
      Averias 18 May 2013 17: 17
      15
      Fat + you. He studied at the geologist. I understand the essence of the issue, just as they understand that fairy tales about the profitability of shale gas are just fairy tales. It’s like Japan, when it announced that it would, methane hydrate will be mined from the depths and that - EXPORT - it will be. The same applies to the statement of all the same Japanese that they are not at a feeble depth, discovered deposits (Klondike) - rare earth elements. Say, we’ll get it right now, so let's throw it out for export. Well is not it nonsense? Or are they, in their West, they believe that our geologists have transferred? And the most important factor is that where shale gas production is there, goodbye is ecology.
      1. Curculum
        Curculum 18 May 2013 20: 03
        +5
        Quote: Averias
        It’s like Japan, when it announced that it would, methane hydrate will be mined from the depths and that - EXPORT - it will be.

        There is one more canoe:
        "TOKYO, May 18. / Correspondent of ITAR-TASS Yaroslav Makarov /. The US Department of Energy has given its permission for the supply of American shale gas to Japan, which may begin approximately in 2017. This is reported today by the Japanese media."
        http://www.itar-tass.com/c11/740188.html
        laughing
        1. scrack
          scrack 18 May 2013 23: 37
          +4
          By the year 17 they can cover this garbage and no shale gas will be sent to Japan
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 18 May 2013 15: 48
    +9
    I read Ukrainian information channels. Ukrainians say: shale gas in Ukraine (the alleged deposits of Donetsk, Kharkov regions, etc.) will finally solve the problem of the dependence of Nenko on Russian gas. Shale gas production entails a large number of environmental problems. Whether Ukraine is thinking about this is unknown.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 18 May 2013 17: 55
      11
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Whether Ukraine is thinking about this is unknown.

      No! Do not think! Moreover, violent protests arose in the Lviv region! Well, they are close to Europe, and if they start to implement this project there, Poland will also be in trouble. But Donetsk-Kharkov .... and who needs them. Our tops disappear over the hillock along with the money. But at the moment they show so “beautifully” that “they are making incredible efforts to get rid of the gas stranglehold of Russia”!
      1. MG42
        MG42 18 May 2013 19: 24
        +7
        Quote: Egoza
        Moreover, furious protests arose in the Lviv region! Well, they are close to Europe, and if they start to implement this project there, Poland will not be too good. And here is Donetsk-Kharkov

        To date, the Ukrainian government has already signed an agreement with Shell to produce shale gas in Yuzovskaya Square (Kharkiv and Donetsk Regions). AND soon it is planned to sign an agreement with Shevron on Oleskaya Square (Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk Regions).
        “After the start of exploration in the Kharkov region in Ukraine, protests swept people who are concerned about the future of the environment. This is a completely fair reaction of people. It is still not clear why such a rush in this matter has not been conducted professional studies on the volume of shale gas deposits in Ukraine.
        will mine there hi
        http://www.aif.ua/politic/news/58301
        protests in Ukraine against shale gas production
        1. MG42
          MG42 18 May 2013 19: 35
          +4
          Here is a map of shale gas in Poland and Ukraine
        2. Iraclius
          Iraclius 18 May 2013 19: 48
          +6
          So far, it looks like a blatant political bluff. Because for the reasons I voiced, the production of shale gas in Ukraine is unprofitable.
          Mice cried, pricked, but continued to eat a cactus. So Ukraine will continue to buy Russian gas, no matter how hard it is and puffed up. laughing
          1. MG42
            MG42 18 May 2013 20: 23
            +7
            Quote: Iraclius
            So far, it looks like a blatant political bluff.

            As well as reverse gas supplies from Europe, and the agreement with the Spaniards on the lnzh terminal was signed in general by the "wedding general" = a disguised clown who did not have the authority to do so and so in everything recourse = the policy of sitting on 2 chairs and economic miracles with gas, as well as the supply of Turkmen airships to Ukraine bypassing Gazprom. It was easier to join the vehicle and get gas at the normal price.
          2. Ivanovich47
            Ivanovich47 18 May 2013 21: 41
            +4
            The Poles are already deciding that they have unprofitable shale gas deposits. But Ukraine is hammering, because the leadership has to .....
            1. MG42
              MG42 18 May 2013 22: 08
              +2
              Quote: Ivanovich47
              But Ukraine is hammering, because the leadership has to .....

              It’s fair, such as diversification of supplies, but in fact fraud, these temporary workers in power will leave sooner or later, but the ecology will be restored to the problem for future generations. In Ukraine, there is the Chernobyl zone ..
              1. MG42
                MG42 18 May 2013 23: 04
                +6
                Here, too, the Yanukovych electorate protests in the Donbass against the production of shale gas
  7. pensioner
    pensioner 18 May 2013 15: 48
    10
    Yes, bullshit is shale gas! I talked with experts in this area more than once. And the fact that they have gathered en masse to transfer motor vehicles to gas engine fuel is very good! Also, prices will jump up for gas due to the fear that gas imports from Russia may decrease in this regard. Yes, everything will be good for Gazprom. Maybe the economy mode is as strict (as planned) will not be needed. And the turn to the East has already begun ... And this is already for a long time. These European rams will wait. Norway with Qatar and Algeria will not feed them. They will crawl on their knees to Iran and Russia.
    1. CTEPX
      CTEPX 18 May 2013 18: 39
      +4
      Quote: retired
      On their knees they will crawl to both Iran and Russia.

      They realize this)).
      Therefore, the project of the "Great Caliphate", invented against the Soviet Union and based on the control of oil and gas (Allah created oil so that we rule the world; a roll call from: Gd created money so that we rule the world) has been launched)). no one can. You can only win)).
      1. Averias
        Averias 18 May 2013 19: 09
        +4
        No, with the idea of ​​a "great Caliphate", the United States stepped on its own rake. After all, no one doubts that it was the USA that put the idea of ​​the "Great Caliphate" into the heads of the sheikhs. The ambitions of Arab families (sheikhs and others) will ruin this idea (already ruined). Since when the time comes to appoint the chief (shah, padishah, sultan or anyone else), they will gnaw. There are a lot of the richest Arabs and everyone wants power, it’s not interesting to create a collective government. The very meaning of the "Great Caliphate" is lost, for since the Caliphate, there must be a ruler. And most importantly, as soon as the same Americans sense that everything is going wrong (although how have they not noticed it yet?), They will sweep away B.Vostok with all the princes and sheiks. And the most interesting thing (there are indirect examples of this), everything goes to this. They put it into our heads that THEY (East) are enemies, they - that WE (Europeans) are enemies. Then they will simply bring the situation to the point that the entire European world will give the green light to a war, not a local one, but a large-scale one (no matter how cynical it may sound). Under the slogan - SALVATION OF THE EUROPEAN PEOPLES. There is another option, it is the replacement of US - THEM. THEY are hardy, multiply, poorly educated (easy to manipulate), used to survive, work for a pittance. And when THEY squeeze out US, they will be taken into circulation (there are a lot of options), and those who remain will be the labor force. I threw this fantastic scenario of the course of events. Although many facts speak just about this.
        1. CTEPX
          CTEPX 18 May 2013 19: 28
          +5
          Quote: Averias
          with the idea of ​​a "great Caliphate", the United States stepped on its own rake

          You are right about a rake)). Only the USA didn’t come — they themselves are in slavery)). Only work as eunuchs)).
          Quote: Averias
          for since the Caliphate, there must be a ruler
          It does not matter for them WHO will be the ruler)). This will be the biggest rat)). Do you think Hitler was elected? He just ate his competitors and thought he was not in a cage)). Anyone who devoured everyone can become the "ruler" of the Caliphate)). Even ... Erdogan. Even ... Netanyahu. The main thing is that he becomes the Strongest Rat)). When the caliphate ends, they will take on the blacks)). Fifty years later)).
          They think that they live. Because they can buy EVERYTHING. And WE know that WE live. Because we own what is not for sale)).
          Quote: Averias
          Under the slogan - RESCUE OF THE EUROPEAN PEOPLES.
          And Europe is food. At one time - for Hitler, now - for the Great Caliphate)).
          1. Averias
            Averias 18 May 2013 19: 34
            +3
            It’s debatable that European financial elites are strong .... damn I don’t know what to call it. The point is, they will not allow the East to rule, under any circumstances. Just as they still consider THEM (East) countries of the Third World, and all their sheikhs and other people of the second grade. They will never be equal with them.
            1. CTEPX
              CTEPX 18 May 2013 19: 41
              +3
              Quote: Averias
              they will not allow the East to rule, under any circumstances.

              The same financial European elite said the same thing (not about the East, but about the possibility to rule it) about Germany)) ... until 38 years old)) and about France - to Napoleon)). And then began to suck ... not oil and not money, sorry, ideology)). And then ... attacked us)).
              Yes, besides Europe, today Central Asia and a significant part of China are given over to feeding Hitler new)).
              1. Iraclius
                Iraclius 18 May 2013 19: 52
                +5
                CTEPXYou are reasoning correctly. Old Europe is on the verge of energy hunger. Alternative sources of energy have exhausted the limits of growth, and the luscious local population forces them to abandon nuclear power plants. They drove themselves into a trap. So now there are only two options - to buy or take by force where it can be taken. You have outlined the geography correctly. good
                1. CTEPX
                  CTEPX 18 May 2013 20: 10
                  +3
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  Old Europe is on the verge of energy hunger.

                  And Africa is on the verge of starvation). And China is on the verge of a permanent uprising)). And Japan is on the verge of claustrophobia))).
                  The world has a lot of pain points - push - I do not want!
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  You have outlined the geography correctly.
                  The geography of feeding the "Great Caliphate", yes. But, it's not me)). There are smart people. I can only hear, see)).
                  But thanks anyway wink !
  8. KononAV
    KononAV 18 May 2013 15: 49
    +8
    I want to believe that the day will come, the time will come and everything in our country will be fine, those who once left with their heads raised will crawl on their knees, and the cities of our enemies will be in ruins, as a result of talerance and liberalism.
  9. Iraclius
    Iraclius 18 May 2013 15: 52
    +9
    Once again about Ukraine. Who did not understand - oil at the Yuzovsky and Olesky deposits no and will not basically. It will not be for the same simple reason that there is no oil in many American shale fields, and in many of them there is a plug even with condensate. Because these fields are outside the "oil window". Any geologist will tell you this. And for economic reasons, only produce one gas unprofitable. Those. Ukraine continues to stand in a pose with his pants down.
  10. kind
    kind 18 May 2013 16: 01
    +5
    I repeat once again. In America, fools are a hundred years ahead reserved.
  11. bubla5
    bubla5 18 May 2013 16: 09
    +4
    How much can we say that they are pushing us towards the devastating and uneconomical production and development of shale gas, the first reason that our scientists came up with a more economical and rational use of oil shale, then just take technology for free, the second is that we invest huge amounts of money for processing and the third most important to reduce gas prices significantly
  12. djon3volta
    djon3volta 18 May 2013 16: 19
    +3
    Russian President Putin understands very well that fear on stock exchanges drives prices up. Remember what happened to the oil after landing Khodorkovsky. A very successful cannon when both the thief is punished and hydrocarbon prices soared. Putin is a great master in politics, since his politics so firmly keeps the economy in a hot state and drives prices up. Well, and, of course, wars in the Middle East also help this.

    I liked it the most! good at least one positive article per day about Russia.
  13. Algor73
    Algor73 18 May 2013 16: 24
    +6
    Strange, not a single comment from Ukraine ...
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 18 May 2013 19: 08
      +1
      And they have no time. Buryat...
      1. Averias
        Averias 18 May 2013 19: 16
        +3
        Nah, they don’t drill, they are sawing ..... WEIGHTS laughing
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 18 May 2013 20: 10
          +1
          In-in. They know how to cut well. And pi ... ich.
  14. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 18 May 2013 16: 26
    +5
    Yusovtsy tried to reduce the value of Gazprom shares and buy them for themselves, that’s the whole secret of shale gas. The usual stock game.
    The reception has long been worked out. A group of fraudsters authoritatively declares that a way has been found to extract gold from sea water per ton per day, they say that gold will be cheaper than iron and they buy gold at cheap from gullible simpletons.
  15. Belogor
    Belogor 18 May 2013 16: 33
    +5
    A sober person initially did not believe in this PR campaign. They blew the bubble, now they blow it quietly, seeing that the goal has not been achieved.
    Led on this duck only flawed. Who exactly? It is written above.
  16. uizik
    uizik 18 May 2013 16: 33
    +4
    Silent, busy, cleaned with zbroy!
  17. v53993
    v53993 18 May 2013 17: 10
    +4
    The Polish newspaper Dziennik Gazeta Prawna writes that the state Lotos decided to return to the exploration of traditional hydrocarbons.

    Everything is already explored before you. You have nothing but a gentleman's ambition.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 18 May 2013 19: 07
      +5
      Quote: v53993
      The Polish newspaper Dziennik Gazeta Prawna writes that the state Lotos decided to return to the exploration of traditional hydrocarbons.
      Everything is already explored before you. You have nothing but a gentleman's ambition.


      for sure. You might as well catch fish in the toilet.
      1. Averias
        Averias 18 May 2013 19: 18
        +5
        Ah well done. Briefly and clearly. ++++ to you.
  18. mihasik
    mihasik 18 May 2013 17: 39
    +9
    Why is the price of gasoline high for us has been said and written for a long time.
    1. If prices are kept low, there will be a shortage of oil products, as our oil industry will drive oil abroad. There is a price, which means more profit.
    2. Many factors are invested in the price, including replenishment of the budget, and it is the oil industry, the main income factor at the moment. What GDP was talking about, if we leave raw dependence, you will be happy).
    But, if item 1 can be defeated by lifting customs duties and then exporting will be unprofitable, then item 2 is a problem. Who will refuse superprofits? How to raise the country's production and the economy with it, if we have no specialists left for the same production. The age of professional (knowledgeable) is 55-70 years. Young people do not want to work with their hands, the maximum is to calculate the loot. We can now export millions of lawyers, managers, sellers, speculators,
    directors, general directors, presidents — we now have this as Mr.!
    The conclusion is simple. Until we want to work with our little hands, we should not expect cheap raw materials in the next century.
  19. Enot-poloskun
    Enot-poloskun 18 May 2013 18: 14
    +5
    And let's leave Europe before winter without gas and oil! (joke))))

    And we will listen to a concert of human rights defenders and watch the ballets of the gay people)))
  20. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 18 May 2013 18: 21
    +5
    Gazprom transgaz gives gas to every yurt! And the rest of the sets for gas are a bag of peas, a hose, a reducer.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 18 May 2013 18: 34
      +3
      [quote = a.hamster55] And the rest of the sets for gas are a bag of peas, a hose, a reducer. [

      +++++++++++++++ Yes, they don’t need peas either. They can gasp with fear. Let them get scared more often. And stronger. And we will help.
  21. knn54
    knn54 18 May 2013 18: 21
    +5
    The orange plague is being replaced by the “shale” plague.
    And those who already consider profit from production do not live in Kharkov and Donetsk regions.
    Better engaged in biogas, especially since there are environmentally friendly biotechnologies (algae ...) in methane production in the world.
  22. horoh
    horoh 18 May 2013 18: 37
    +7
    It is good that the GDP is not being “scammed” for shale gas. I respect !!!! good
  23. Nu daaaa ...
    Nu daaaa ... 18 May 2013 18: 44
    -7
    http://imrussia.org/ru/economy/382-how-gazprom-snoozed-through-the-shale-gas-rev
    olution
  24. Nu daaaa ...
    Nu daaaa ... 18 May 2013 18: 44
    -8
    http://imrussia.org/ru/economy/382-how-gazprom-snoozed-through-the-shale-gas-rev
    olution
    1. Curculum
      Curculum 18 May 2013 20: 17
      +1
      Quote: Nu daaaa ...
      http://imrussia.org/ru/economy/382-how-gazprom-snoozed-through-the-shale-gas-rev
      olution

      And why were hesitant to display contact details? I quote:
      "Institute of Modern Russia, Inc.
      231 West 29th Street, Suite 908
      New York, NY 10001
      USA
      351 Sparta Avenue, Suite 204
      Sparta, NJ 07871
      USA
      tel. + 1 646 400 0607
      fax +1 646 400 0611 "
      The name "Institute of Modern Russia, Inc." is especially impressive. wassat
      Therefore, your - chew yourself, but we really like something ...
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 18 May 2013 20: 25
      +1
      somebody’s watching bro you have nowhere to sculpt skulls. And you all beg for it ... What a concrete masochist Cheli ... although why be surprised. About tempera about the sea ....
  25. MG42
    MG42 18 May 2013 19: 09
    +5
    Here about the problems of shale gas production in Ukraine, protest rallies and more
    http://za.zubr.in.ua/2013/03/11/20185/
    participation in the PSA of more than the strange company SPK Geoservice. According to an already deep-rooted opinion, it is controlled by representatives of the family of President Viktor Yanukovych and will receive income from field development together with international companies.

    Shell and Chevron are not against it. The main thing for them is to be allowed to prey.
  26. Siberian
    Siberian 18 May 2013 19: 15
    +6
    Gentlemen! In 1985 and 2008, there were also apologists for our exclusivity, but what happened happened. They managed to crawl out only by massive transfer of proceeds for hydrocarbons to the "owners" almost free of charge. There is no need to rely on our production, they have reserves and dumping opportunities against it. It's time for our rulers to set conditions for the "oligarchs": no less than a quarter of the profits for exploration and development of new fields, and the "state" itself, from the duties and severance tax received, should invest something in the development of Russia, not in the US military budget.
  27. VadimSt
    VadimSt 18 May 2013 19: 41
    +4
    Quote: Iraclius
    Those. Ukraine continues to stand in a pose with his pants down.

    + I really liked it.

    The political and economic activity of the current government in Ukraine will very quickly turn into a political, economic and environmental catastrophe - for future generations! Do we need it? Yes, on us, they have long laid!
  28. datur
    datur 18 May 2013 20: 11
    +2
    Those. Ukraine continues to stand in a pose with his pants down .-- Alas, that is !!! wink
  29. korm-yurii
    korm-yurii 18 May 2013 20: 58
    +6
    He got into Leontiev. However, as soon as he did not call Miller both a traitor and a madman because he overslept the shale revolution. In the place of Miller I would have filled his face in Tyhara.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 18 May 2013 21: 02
      +1
      Who feeds the girl, that dances her Question - who feeds Leontiev?
      I made a conclusion.
      1. Karabin
        Karabin 18 May 2013 22: 07
        -1
        Quote: Iraclius
        Question - who feeds Leontiev?

        Member of Edra since 2002. The proxy of candidate Putin in the last election.
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 18 May 2013 21: 12
      +1
      Quote: korm-yurii
      In Miller’s place, I would have filled his face in Tyhara.


      Well ... I think it's better to do it live. Secretly - not our method (recently)
  30. crambol
    crambol 18 May 2013 21: 59
    +1
    Quote: Asgard
    ... as a geologist by training ...

    Dear colleague! I appeal to you as a specialist. Somewhere a very long time ago there was some information that associated radioactive elements are released during underground gasification. Am I right, or is it connected with something else?
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 18 May 2013 22: 29
      +5
      I allow myself to interfere with an amateurish commentary. Once upon a time he worked at a branch institute (mining industry). Personally, with the help of a pocket dosimeter, he found radioactive pieces of rocks on rock dumps in Krivoy Rog (and not only, just there most of all). As experts said - uranium tar. For years ago, I don’t remember what it is. Whistling - just like that. The first scale went off scale boldly. And one of our clever geologists said that nature hid everything radioactive from sin, far away underground. But a man strives to dig everything up to the surface and is glad. I will not be surprised that during the extraction of shale gas to the surface and something else, they will pull it out. Radioactive.
    2. old rocket man
      old rocket man 18 May 2013 23: 33
      +2
      Quote: crambol
      Quote: Asgard
      ... as a geologist by training ...

      Dear colleague! I appeal to you as a specialist. Somewhere a very long time ago there was some information that associated radioactive elements are released during underground gasification. Am I right, or is it connected with something else?


      Not only during underground gasification, all slag dumps during coal combustion, as well as waste rock dumps after enrichment, have increased radioactivity, while underground coal gasification, just the least harm
  31. pinecone
    pinecone 19 May 2013 00: 34
    +1
    Question to the experts. It is known that during the Second World War, Germany largely covered its needs for liquid fuel due to the production of synthetic fuels from coal. I would like to know how profitable such a production would be at present.
    1. Egen
      Egen 20 May 2013 09: 52
      0
      Quote: pinecone
      due to the production of synthetic fuels from coal. I would like to know how profitable such a production would be at present.

      Answer: literally a couple of months ago, developers of an improved such technology turned to us in Kuzbass. Profitability is a maximum of a couple percent, although gasoline is clearly cleaner. But even the state does not undertake such profitability.
  32. Ivga_lis
    Ivga_lis 19 May 2013 00: 37
    +3
    As a geologist, I will also say. Russia does not need shale gas. In the north of Western Siberia, we have enough deposits that are not fully developed only because the infrastructure is not developed or there is no sales market. A simple example is the unique Vankor field, discovered, if I am not mistaken, in 1988. And only in 2009 it was put into commercial operation. And next to it are at least 2 more fields, comparable in reserves. Question - why do we need shale gas, expensive in terms of production, if there is still enough conventional?
  33. Ivga_lis
    Ivga_lis 19 May 2013 00: 42
    +1
    Quote: pinecone
    Question to the experts. It is known that during the Second World War, Germany largely covered its needs for liquid fuel due to the production of synthetic fuels from coal. I would like to know how profitable such a production would be at present.

    As far as I know, coal (coal-bearing rocks), at proper temperatures and pressures (in the sedimentary cover), are capable of generating liquid hydrocarbons such as light oil. At the same time, only gasoline fractions can be isolated from such oil. Now this topic is irrelevant - a new mulka - "shale oil" - oil from rocks that are oil source (ie where oil is "born")
  34. Suhov
    Suhov 19 May 2013 01: 03
    +7
    Cursing Muscovites, they burned Russian gas with hatred in Ukrainian kitchens.
    wassat
    1. crambol
      crambol 19 May 2013 11: 25
      +1
      And they burned with fury and terribly swearing. In Russian!
  35. Revolver
    Revolver 19 May 2013 06: 54
    0
    To obtain shale gas, a process called "fracking" is used (I don't know how it is in Russian - Google translates it as "hydraulic fracturing"). At the same time, water with chemicals is driven into the rock under pressure. Although the gas companies swear and swear that there is no danger to the environment, environmentalists are organizing demonstrations and suing the companies. Environmental expertise and what the hell knows what they require, and this is money and time, which is also money. Although environmental activists are usually liberal, I agree with them here. I want to breathe air without foreign odors and drink water without a taste, and not think where the cow grazed that went to my steak.
    And the locals are not happy either. There is such an abbreviation in America: NIMBY, which means "Not in my backyard". And congressmen (and congressmen) listen to this, they also want to be elected for the next term. Again, gas prices in America are considerable, in winter every time I write a check for gas for heating my house I want to use profanity. So there is no threat of America becoming a gas exporter in the foreseeable future. Gazprom, accordingly, is not in danger of bankruptcy, enough money to pay to the Russian budget, and still have to buy a couple of not weak players in Zenith.
  36. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 19 May 2013 09: 00
    +3
    Dear crambol! During underground gas production, a terrible cocktail of gases, including poisonous ones, enters the surface. This is followed by cleaning. Daily monitoring in laboratories at compressor stations along the pumping path. Here somewhere so briefly.
    1. crambol
      crambol 19 May 2013 11: 27
      0
      Big grand merci!
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. Corsair
    Corsair 19 May 2013 11: 11
    0
    So, Marathon Oil stated that it is selling its rights to develop shale deposits in the 2014 year and the declared value for these rights is $ 12mln. The company identified its attempts to find shale gas as "unsuccessful."

    The second American company Talisman Energy also decided to leave the Polish shale gas market, and they say that they want to get their assets from the Irish San Leon Energy. Polish state-owned Lotos entered into an agreement on joint development of 4 sites with PGNiG, but the matter did not go further. PGNiG later stated that it supports the idea of ​​developing shale gas, but this is not related to cooperation with Lotos. That is, in this case there was a puncture.

    However, the biggest blow to Poland’s self-sufficiency in gas was ExxonMobil, which sold its assets immediately after drilling forecasts for shale gas in Poland were not confirmed.

    MMM in the European way."Divorce" with "kidalov".
  40. T-73
    T-73 19 May 2013 13: 35
    0
    Article from contrpost.com. Are they bringing them down again? And the fact that shale gas is a divorce is what they say "the stump is clear." Profit for the capitalist is a goal, altruism is not known to them. Nobody in the US will date gas for everyone. Nobody ever
    PS. No, the post seems to breathe, through time, but breathe
  41. shinobi
    shinobi 19 May 2013 15: 00
    0
    Correctly, someone gave a comparison with MMM. We are inflating world hysteria (remember how with the bird flu virus, pharmacists didn’t get sick then), the states start investing frantically not illusory money. One-day companies reap them, and then the pyramid collapses. Here the Furious current did not buy, yes and in Gazprom there are no fools. There is no politics in fact, a scam of pure water. Only very large-scale. Globalization however.
  42. Ivga_lis
    Ivga_lis 19 May 2013 21: 15
    +1
    A brief reference on shale gas, if anyone is interested
    The first gas well in shale formations was drilled in the USA, Fredonia, New York in 1821. William Hart, who is considered the "father of natural gas" in the United States.
    The pioneer in the field of shale gas production in the USA is geologist George Mitchell (1919).
    Large-scale industrial production of shale gas was launched by Devon Energy in the United States in the early 2000s.

    Shale gas production problems.
    -the cost of exploration and production equipment;
    -US monopoly on shale gas production technologies;
    - the calorific value of shale gas is almost two times lower than that of natural gas;
    - shale gas contains a large amount of harmful impurities: carbon dioxide, nitrogen and hydrogen sulfide, so that it can explode in high pressure pipelines;
    - shale gas deposits are relatively small, and are mostly exploited for only one season;
    potential hazard of groundwater pollution

    Positive sides.
    + minimum transportation costs;
    + no gas storage required

    Now for comparison, the distribution of shale gas reserves in Russia
    http://s09.radikal.ru/i182/1305/c6/fb324c92c405.jpg
    And in the USA
    http://s47.radikal.ru/i117/1305/23/19e7b3b948c3.jpg

    And natural gas reserves in Russia
    http://www.mineral.ru/Content_Deployment/Facts/russia/131/292/img/image003.jpg
  43. w.ebdo.g
    w.ebdo.g 19 May 2013 22: 00
    +3
    Quote: kris
    And the loyal policeman devotees with zeal will comply with the law on rallies.
    A day later, cheap campaigns appear in support of Putin.
    Authors compete in licking fifth point to their idol


    you are right, rubbish policemen with zeal will comply with the law on rallies, it would be better as in America and England used plastic bullets, tear gas and ice water in brigade ...
    say thank you to Putin that you don’t use all this at rallies.
    try an unauthorized rally in America)))))
    nobody will be there to stand on ceremony with you.
    all is bad for you ...
    But what did you personally do to make Russia feel good?
    What did you do when the USSR collapsed in the 90s?
    He sat quietly at home, the licking did not touch you and shook your skin?
    so I thought that you couldn’t succeed in answering something intelligible, if only you should lie something)))
    Thanks for attention.
  44. Egen
    Egen 20 May 2013 10: 28
    +1
    geologists and oil industry workers :)
    Dear almost-colleagues, let me give you a few IMHO important comments on the topic.
    1) The press constantly confuses shale gas and coalbed methane. I have already written many times on the forum that IMHO shale is garbage, methane is great :). And in the States, the "revolution" began precisely with coal bed methane - the early degassing of mines, it was for this that they began to pay extra $ 50 / tm3, and now in the States and Australia the main rate is still on coal bed methane (CBM) , and shale, as those who deal with methane say - this is just for the hype.
    2) By the way, there is much more coal (and methane potential) in the USA and China than in Russia. Compared to natural gas from the north of Siberia, we have in southern Siberia :) coal methane at 99,9% is methane (do you have 60%?), Sulfur is 0, beat calorific value is something 34-35, which is higher than GOST = 33. No cleaning is necessary. And in shale, how much do you say methane? :)
    3) Gazprom is engaged in coal methane. This is an order of the President from 2002. if I’m not mistaken, there is a joint project of Gazprom and the Adm of the Kemerovo region on this issue, again under the control of the President. They didn’t hear anything about slate ...
    4) The advantage of our Kuzbass methane over your northern one is that there is no need to pull pipelines. That is, we have Parabel-Kuzbass, but there is almost no local wiring, and you yourself can imagine what amounts. 99,9% of gas in Kuzbass is consumed by industrial enterprises near the pipe. The population is practically 0, ... The task is to produce up to 6 billion m3 from all over Kuzbass - this is a lot, from where there are trillions in Poland, an interesting question. And your northern released gas is planned to be exported through a pipe.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 20 May 2013 12: 37
      0
      Quote: Egen
      That is, we have Parabel-Kuzbass

      Right recently climbed on it.
  45. Egen
    Egen 20 May 2013 11: 49
    0
    more.
    5) Hydraulic fracturing is essentially one of the ways to stimulate tributaries. It is not used 100%, on the contrary, the application depends on geology, rock composition, etc. For example, in Australia there are 3 pools where methane is produced. On 1, only hydraulic fracturing is done from them, on 2 - more horizontal, etc. wells, and on 3 - generally only vertical and without casing, even without perforation. Cheap and cheerful.
    6) The harm from hydraulic fracturing is also voiced one-sidedly. The minimum formation depth for hydraulic fracturing at CBM is 400m (higher is natural weathering), the maximum is 1100m (further higher pressure). If you speak on oil shale they do it at 2,5km - this is all the more so below the water horizons to a maximum of 200m. How then can proppant get to the surface? Correctly, through pumping out water with a pump with the release of hydraulic fracturing products. But so in every country there is legislation on the protection of nature, and if the operator does not comply with it, does not install treatment or elementary sumps, it is his fault, which is something to do with technology. Also, this is all yesterday. Today, most of the hydraulic fracturing is done on an aqueous weak solution of potassium-chlorine with sand or ceramic, which is more environmentally friendly.
    On the other hand, it is not so simple. The Russian geographical society tells us that on the 1 side, if we assume that there is some pollution, but it is not emitted but methane is utilized, because of which all sorts of holes and hotbeds arise, and the Russian Geographical Society counts, and what is better. In addition, overburden operations are carried out in tons of explosives by tons of explosives, and such an interesting yellow cloud forms ... Although, rather, a decent cloud :(
    7) And about the economy. The specific commercial drilling speed increases with depth, so a well on 2,5 km shale will be clearly more expensive than 1,3 km on methane. But vertical ones have not been drilled for a long time. Yes, and directional less and less. In Kuzbass, 2 horizontal drills are now being drilled with wiring along the coal seam with vertical penetration into the trunk. Clearly more expensive, but debit is an order of magnitude higher. Probably, shale can also be drilled, although I don’t know how to navigate at a depth of 2,5 km, it is not as simple as bitumen. In addition, the number of tubing technology does not imply cyclic but flowing, 1 km is drilled per day, even without filling the site. And this technology is not a monopoly of the USA, even Belarus produces such plants, and Belarusneft uses them somewhere in your city in Noyabrsk it seems.
    That’s short ... what did I forget to say? :)
    1. Ivga_lis
      Ivga_lis 23 May 2013 23: 15
      0
      Egen, about hydraulic fracturing. Now this method is mainly used for stimulation of tributaries (increase in open porosity) for reservoirs, i.e. rocks consisting of sandstones, siltstones. The danger of hydraulic fracturing in shales lies in the fact that such rocks, consisting of clay differences and organic matter, accumulate (in the process of sedimentation) a lot of radioactive elements. And an aqueous solution will tolerate these elements.
      Plus, such artificially created pores quickly "collapse".

      In general, as I have already said, in our situation the game of "shale gas" is not worth the candle, since there are a lot of gas deposits in the north of our country (moreover, gas is fat, not methane). Another thing is that the cost of drilling in permafrost conditions is quite high. Plus, local gas pipelines are not designed for the amount of gas that can actually be extracted from the fields discovered in the 80s in Yamal (in Gydan they are generally in a "suspended" state). Those. here it is required not only to invest in drilling, but also to build new branches of gas pipelines. However, it looks beneficial from the point of view of the development of the north of Siberia.

      Well, and finally. Shale gas still belongs to the so-called. "unconventional resources" on a par with shale oil, biogenic gas, heavy oil. Its development, it seems to me, is much more profitable by the efforts of foreign companies, as they are now going to do with shale oil. The incentive for this can be the reduction of the MET.
      1. Egen
        Egen 24 May 2013 07: 07
        +1
        Oh, Kira, are you a geologist or a gas worker? :) If you know the word "aleurolite" :)
        Quote: Ivga_Lis
        mainly for intensification of tributaries (increase in open porosity)

        - and we have coal to increase natural fracturing ...
        Quote: Ivga_Lis
        accumulate a lot of radioactive elements.

        - But, like, I didn’t know that we don’t have anything in the corner. And this is the specifics of Ukraine (well, what deposits are rare) or shale in general?
        Quote: Ivga_Lis
        such artificially created pores quickly "collapse"

        - on clay mean? The sandstone is solid. On coal, nothing oo collapses, it is necessary to calculate the hydraulic fracturing parameters correctly - what program do you use? If Meyer M-coat she certainly doesn’t calculate what will actually happen, there is 2D, according to coal they consider M-Shell to 3D, she takes into account the nature of the propagation of cracks in the corner, maybe it will be better for shale
        Quote: Ivga_Lis
        there are a lot of gas deposits in the north of our country (moreover, gas is fatty, not methane)

        - wait, what do you mean "fatty", why fatty, in the same place the share of methane itself is not more than 80%, all sorts of propane-butanes are certainly not always bad, but this is a heterogeneous mixture, which is not good; besides sulfur, etc.
        Quote: Ivga_Lis
        the cost of drilling in permafrost is quite high

        Well, yes, but you have to look at the final cost on the spot with transport and the economic efficiency of investments
        Quote: Ivga_Lis
        local gas pipelines are not designed for the amount of gas that can actually be extracted from the fields,

        do you mean in Ukraine? we have trunk loading 75%. Why marketing ones if there is LNG technology?
        Quote: Ivga_Lis
        The incentive for this may be the reduction of MET.

        + 0 income tax, property - but this is not enough.
        Anyway, I don’t understand why you need oil shale in Ukraine when you have methane in Donbass .. In general, drop your oil shale and move to our Kuzbass :))
  46. Ivga_lis
    Ivga_lis 24 May 2013 15: 40
    0
    Egen, I am a geologist, but a search engine, not a developer, so in some subtleties I could be wrong :)
    - and we have coal to increase natural fracturing ...

    In general, the sense of the method is the same - to create artificial paths for the "exit" of gas / oil, if there are not enough of those that the rock initially has.
    - But, like, I didn’t know that we don’t have anything in the corner. And this is the specifics of Ukraine (well, what deposits are rare) or shale in general?

    No, I'm talking about shale at all. Abroad, any rock that is shallow and not highly transformed is called oil shale. In our country, they differ in names - those that include carbonaceous organics are called carbonaceous shales. Those that are inferior (all kinds of algae, bacteria) are combustible. In general, slate contains a fairly decent amount of clay. When sediment accumulates in a reservoir, clay particles, due to their small size, seem to cling to particles of organic matter (adsorption capacity), but due to the same ability to clay particles, rare and radioactive elements in the water also cling. That is why clays, in general, have increased natural radioactivity.
    This is where I don’t quite understand which shale the Americans are mining from ... But nevertheless, I met some remarks that after the use of hydraulic fracturing, the surrounding water bodies are polluted with used water containing uranium. Plus, shales usually occur at a shallow depth, which increases the risk of pollution.
  47. Ivga_lis
    Ivga_lis 24 May 2013 15: 41
    0
    - do you mean on clay?

    Yes, I'm talking about clays, because they, unlike sandstones and coals, are more plastic. Here I am not based on personal experience (I repeat, not a developer), but on what I read about development attempts using hydraulic fracturing of the Bazhenov formation.
    wait, what does it mean "fatty", why fatty, in the same place the share of methane itself is not more than 80%, all sorts of propane-butanes are certainly not always bad, but it turns out to be a heterogeneous mixture, which is not good; besides sulfur, etc.

    There is also enough hydrogen sulfide in shale gas, and besides it there is carbon dioxide and nitrogen. In the gas of the north of Western Siberia, sulfur is much less (and the gas of the upper layers is just “dry”). Deeper layers have greasy gas and condensate.
    Well, yes, but you have to look at the final cost on the spot with transport and the economic efficiency of investments

    If you believe the calculations of the director of IPG Dmitrievsky, the cost of shale gas production in the USA for 2012 is at least 150 dollars per thousand cubic meters. At the same time, in Russia, the cost of natural gas from old gas fields is about $ 50 per thousand cubic meters.
    Again, according to 2010 data, shale gas resources in the USA are 108,8 trillion cubic meters; in Russia and the CIS - 17,7 trillion cubic meters. At the same time, natural gas reserves in Russia are 151,3 trillion cubic meters.
    do you mean in Ukraine? we have trunk loading 75%. Why marketing ones if there is LNG technology?

    Why do you have in Ukraine? I’m just talking about the north of Western Siberia, where the main LNG production and new gas pipelines are only being designed (well, Gazprom took up the construction of new gas pipelines)
    Anyway, I don’t understand why you need oil shale in Ukraine when you have methane in Donbass .. In general, drop your oil shale and move to our Kuzbass :))

    As for Ukraine, I will not say - I basically mean the development of shale gas in Russia. And I think that it is not very interesting yet. Since the development of deposits in the north is much more beneficial for the development of these regions. And in my specialty I have “search and exploration of oil and gas fields” and I find in Russia;)
    1. Egen
      Egen 28 May 2013 15: 48
      0
      Quote: Ivga_Lis
      and I find in Russia;)

      Oops, I'm sorry, but they wrote about Ukraine, I did not understand :)
      Quote: Ivga_Lis
      I mean the development of shale gas in Russia

      So no one is developing it, at least Gazprom is for sure ... :)
      To summarize, thanks for the comments, in general it is clear that this is a dark thing :)
  48. Ivga_lis
    Ivga_lis 28 May 2013 20: 58
    0
    Egen
    So no one is developing it, at least Gazprom is for sure ... :)
    To summarize, thanks for the comments, in general it is clear that this is a dark thing :)

    As far as I know, while it is not interesting to anyone (only Leontyev is for some reason very worried;)) and all talk about shale gas is at the level of scientific disputes, as about gas hydrates and other delights. Although, for example, the same "shale oil" from the Bazhenov formation will be produced by Gazpromneft together with Shell.
    Thank you for your interest in this matter :)