A little about the present and future of AWACS aircraft

65 683 245
A little about the present and future of AWACS aircraft

Recently, an article by Roman Skomorokhov was published on VO Big, expensive, practically useless, dedicated to the present and future of AWACS aircraft. Briefly, the author's key points are as follows:

1. AWACS aircraft are excessively expensive, which is why their numbers are always small, and operations to destroy them, even with the involvement of a large force and carried out over a long period of time, are always justified.

2. With the advent of long-range ground-based anti-aircraft missiles missile The capabilities of AWACS aircraft to operate from “out of reach” have been sharply reduced due to the use of complexes and air-to-air missiles of multifunctional fighters.

3. The functions of AWACS aircraft can be successfully performed by a satellite constellation.

Based on these theses, it is concluded that AWACS aircraft will soon be retired historyJust as torpedo bombers once left, and now attack aircraft are leaving.

Of course, there is a grain of truth in all these thoughts, but still, can we talk today about the imminent demise of AWACS aircraft?

Price issue


Let's start with cost. Iran recently succeeded in destroying a US Air Force E-3C Sentry, after which American sources reported that the aircraft cost American taxpayers more than $500 million, and its replacement would cost $700 million or more.

The sums are certainly impressive. It's no surprise that, given the cost, even the US Air Force couldn't afford to purchase these aircraft en masse: until recently, they had 31 of these aircraft; now, they have 30 left.

Why are the Sentry and its counterparts so expensive? The answer is simple: these aircraft, like our A-50, A-50U, and the A-100 series that never reached the final stage, represent the ultimate in AWACS dimensions and performance. The Sentry's empty weight is 78 tons, and its maximum takeoff weight exceeds 160 tons. This allowed the Sentry to acquire a radar with mind-boggling capabilities (for its time, of course) and a crew of 13-19 instrument operators—in addition to the four pilots.


And so it seems that R. Skomorokhov writes everything correctly: there are few AWACS aircraft, and they are very expensive, and operations to destroy them are completely justified, and are also facilitated by a significant increase in the range of missile use. weapons...That's all true until we put aside the US Air Force's practices and look at their own fleet.

And there we'll see a completely different model for using AWACS aircraft. Yes, of course, we'll be talking about the E-2C Hawkeye and the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye.


The US Air Force has approximately 1600 multirole fighters and 200 attack aircraft, with a total of 1800 aircraft of these classes. This means that there were, on average, 58 fighters and attack aircraft per AWACS. But if you look at Aviation In the US Navy, we see a completely different picture: 677 fighters for every 101 Hawkeyes, meaning only 6-7 fighters per AWACS. If we add the 160 aircraft to the fleet's fighters, EW "Growler", then there will be 8,3 of them, and if we add the Marine Corps aircraft, then the number of fighters and attack aircraft per Hawkeye will be only 12 aircraft.

In other words, we see a fundamental difference in the US Air Force and Navy's approaches to AWACS. While the Air Force relies on one such aircraft, roughly, per regiment, the Navy, by any stretch of the imagination, relies on a squadron, or even half a squadron. While the Air Force views an AWACS aircraft as a treasure to be treasured, cherished, and nurtured, the Navy views it as essentially a disposable asset, just like conventional multirole fighters and attack aircraft.

Why is that? I suspect price played a significant role. While the Sentry equivalent is estimated to cost over $700 million, the Navy's newest E-2D Advanced Hawkeye cost approximately $179,4 million to produce in 2014. Adjusted for inflation, that price would be $237,9 million today. While that's certainly not cheap, the Navy's F-35C costs $102,1 million, making the Advanced Hawkeye the equivalent of 2,3 times its current multirole fighter jets.

The F-35A costs the Americans $82,5 million—less than the carrier-based version. This is entirely justified by the requirements imposed on the aircraft by carrier deployment. Accordingly, it can be assumed that the Advanced Hawkeye, developed for the Air Force, would be less expensive than its naval version, costing around $200 million or less.

Some might argue that Advanced Hawkeyes are much more expensive, citing the deal with France, where the Americans asked $2 billion for three E-2Ds. True, but this is a peculiarity of international pricing, which can include servicing these aircraft throughout their entire lifecycle, pilot training, the supply of simulators, and so on, as well as, of course, profit, which can sometimes be considered "extra." Or it may not: for example, the deal with Japan for nine E-2Ds was planned at just over $3 billion. In our case, what matters is not how much the Americans sell the aircraft for, but how much the US Air Force and Navy buy them for.

In short, an AWACS aircraft doesn't necessarily have to be a super-expensive, one-off toy. But to understand whether it's possible to replace AWACS aircraft now or in the foreseeable future, it's necessary to first examine the tasks they perform.

Radio Intelligence


Oddly enough, an airborne early warning aircraft uses its radar not so much for reconnaissance as for follow-up reconnaissance of targets detected by passive electronic reconnaissance (ELINT). For this purpose, the AWACS is equipped with a powerful system for this purpose.

Of course, combat missions vary, and in some cases it will be necessary to ensure a zone of continuous radar coverage—then the AWACS radar will operate without interruption. But generally, the Advanced Hawkeye "listens" to the space around it, turning on its radar only when something is detected, or periodically, for a couple of turns, and then immediately turning it off. Clearly, this AWACS operation allows it to monitor vast territories while significantly increasing its combat resilience.

Of course, other aircraft equipped with the appropriate equipment could perform electronic reconnaissance. It would be cheaper than an AWACS, as it eliminates the need for a very powerful and expensive radar, its power supply, and the personnel to operate it. However, a specialized ELINT aircraft would be significantly less effective than an AWACS, precisely because the latter combines the ability to conduct both passive and active reconnaissance over long distances.

Radar reconnaissance


Regardless of how you look at it, this is a key function of an airborne early warning aircraft. However, recently, it has become widely believed that this function is gradually becoming less necessary. This is due to the constant improvement of radar systems on multirole fighters, which are gradually capable of detecting targets at ranges of 300-400 km. This is already becoming comparable to the capabilities of the E-3C Sentry, which raises the reasonable question: is it worth investing in AWACS if its primary mission, albeit with somewhat less effectiveness, can be performed by multirole fighters?

However, such analogies are false for a simple reason: as a rule, the radar systems (RLK) of AWACS aircraft of a very respectable age or of a clearly budget segment are compared with the advanced radar systems of the best multi-role fighters in the world.


Comparing comparable models, it turns out... it's very difficult to compare them simply because information about modern US radars is classified. However, publicly available data suggests that the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye radar can detect targets at 550-650 km while the F-22 and F-35 radars can detect them at a maximum range of 300 km.

This may not be the case, of course, but let's think about it rationally. A modern fighter's radar weighs several hundred kilograms, while the AN/APY-9 Advanced Hawkeye's weighs up to three tons. Of course, this isn't a completely fair comparison, since the AN/APY-9's weight also includes the supporting structure, but without a doubt, in a comparable configuration, it is several times (if not an order of magnitude) greater than that of the AN/APG-77 and AN/APG-81 radars—the systems found on the F-22 and F-35, respectively. Or the Su-35's H035 Irbis radar, if you prefer. Common sense dictates that devices serving the same purpose, but differing so significantly in size and yet built at the same level of technological advancement, should differ significantly in their capabilities.

Providing target designation to missile weapons


Just a couple of decades ago, the most AWACS aircraft could do was detect an enemy on the ground or in the air and dispatch fighters or attack aircraft to intercept them. This was undoubtedly a crucial and essential task. However, time has changed, and in the 21st century, AWACS aircraft have learned to guide anti-aircraft missiles to the targets they detect.

The importance of this capability cannot be overstated. We are undoubtedly proud of the achievements of our domestic military-industrial complex, which has created the S-400 air defense system, capable of engaging enemy aircraft at a range of up to 400 km.


Unfortunately, many people, upon learning this, sincerely believe that the S-400 is capable of hitting any enemy aircraft within a 400-kilometer radius, thereby creating a no-fly zone covering half a million square kilometers. This is absolutely not true.

Yes, the S-400, using the 40N6E SAM, can hit an aerial target at 400 km (according to other sources, 380 km). But to do this, the target must be at an altitude of approximately 9 kilometers. If the target flies lower, the S-400's radar simply won't see it due to the curvature of the earth's surface: it will be beyond the radio horizon. Thus, although we have SAMs capable of hitting targets at extremely long ranges, their capabilities remain very limited.

The Americans encountered the same problem on their naval ships: their SM-6 SAMs, while having a comparable range to our 40N6E, suffered from similar issues. A solution was found by training the Advanced Hawkeye to correct the SAM's flight path, guiding it to its target. Therefore, today, the same Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, with an SM-6 and an Advanced Hawkeye above it, can easily engage even a low-flying target at a range of 370 (or even 460) km.

Of course, in theory, any aircraft can (and should!) be trained to provide target designation. Ideally, armed forces should operate under the "see one, see all" paradigm, and modern communications and software are perfectly capable of achieving this. However, the advantage of an AWACS aircraft lies in the superior performance of its radar system—it provides 360-degree visibility and sees much further than a conventional fighter.

Air combat management


The "U" in the acronym "DRLOiU" is extremely important—currently, such an aircraft is essentially the flying headquarters of an air detachment, leading it and providing it with intelligence. For this, the DRLOiU has both the necessary equipment and the appropriate personnel. In this regard, it is completely unrivaled by multirole fighters or electronic warfare aircraft like the Growler. And the importance of timely and precise command and control in combat is something I believe goes without saying to VO readers.

Alternatives to AWACS - hello!


At present, there is simply no alternative to the “flying headquarters”, and there are many reasons for this.

Multirole fighters (MFI). An AWACS can cost as much as 2,5 such aircraft. However, a couple of MFIs are incapable of staying in the air for as long, lack electronic reconnaissance equipment, their radars are significantly inferior to AWACS, and cannot serve as a command post due to the small crew size. In short, they are not even close to being a replacement.

A Growler-style radio reconnaissance aircraft, only with ELINT equipment instead of electronic warfare. In theory, something like this would be feasible; the aircraft could perform reconnaissance and, if necessary, provide additional reconnaissance, using its radar. But such an aircraft couldn't serve as a command post; its radar capabilities weren't even close to those of an AWACS aircraft, and the price... It would probably be more expensive than the MFI and not much less expensive than an AWACS aircraft. But its capabilities would be significantly inferior.

UAVs and all that. There are two options here. The first is to build a large UAV equipped with a radar and electronic warfare system from an AWACS aircraft, but without a crew. In this case, the command post could be located somewhere on the ground, receiving data from the UAV's instruments via broadband internet or some similar communication channel. This way, the UAV could be made lighter, or, by saving on the crew, it could be loaded with additional equipment or fuel. Moreover, this approach would save many lives—after all, UAV operators and the crew of a "flying command post" on the ground clearly have a better chance of survival than during a combat sortie.

This is, in principle, a sound concept, but it's important to understand that it doesn't fundamentally change anything—that is, the AWACS aircraft remains in place, it's simply becoming unmanned. However, in my opinion, the implementation of such UAVs is premature for two reasons.

Firstly, quite a large number of reconnaissance UAVs have been produced. And, as experience has shown, they suffer heavy losses even against countries that are far from technologically advanced. Overall, the combat resilience of UAVs is currently significantly inferior to that of manned aircraft.

Secondly, the concept of such a UAV will only work if it can transmit massive amounts of data over hundreds of kilometers, and do so in real time. This seems possible now—Starlink is an example—but who's to say that tomorrow they won't invent countermeasures that will say:


As for trying to replace AWACS with a "swarm" of relatively small UAVs, such a "swarm," while performing equally well, would be significantly more expensive than an AWACS aircraft. Because UAVs of this type are generally expensive. The American MQ-4C Triton reconnaissance aircraft cost over $120 million per unit in 2015, more than half the price of an Advanced Hawkeye, despite not having even a quarter of the Advanced Hawkeye's capabilities. The Triton carries a radar called the AN/ZPY-3, which, with a 360-degree field of view, scans an area of ​​5,200 square kilometers, meaning its range does not exceed roughly 41 kilometers. However, the Triton is supposedly equipped with a very decent electronic warfare system.

In general, reconnaissance UAVs with radar and ELINT systems of a relatively small size will be expensive, and the combat stability of a "swarm" composed of them will be significantly lower than that of even a large AWACS UAV. Firstly, as mentioned above, the presence of a pilot does increase the combat stability of the aircraft, and secondly, without the ability to carry powerful ELINT and ELINT systems, the "swarm" will have to operate in much closer contact with the enemy.

Space reconnaissance satellites. It's entirely possible, even certain, that in the distant, though perhaps not so bright, future, satellites will indeed be able to take over the functions of the radar and reconnaissance systems of an AWACS aircraft. This would require "very little":

1. Provide radar coverage of half a million square kilometers at any given time, with a resolution significantly less than 1 meter, arbitrarily moving it across the Earth's surface. Moreover, there must be several such coverages, they must operate simultaneously and be located, at the military's discretion, anywhere on the globe. Oh, and they must also be maintained indefinitely (which AWACS aircraft can do, rotating periodically).

2. Provide electronic reconnaissance in the above-mentioned areas of equal quality with AWACS aircraft.

3. Transmit information to control centers in real time. This means that an operator somewhere in a bunker should be able to see the imagery provided by active and passive radar reconnaissance satellites, just as the operators of the radar and electronic reconnaissance stations on an AWACS aircraft see it on their workstation screens.

4. Ensure satellite communications in real time. After all, the guidance of a long-range SAM must proceed in the following order:

- An active radar reconnaissance satellite “tracks” the target and the SAM and transmits data to a ground checkpoint;
- The ground control point makes the necessary calculations and makes adjustments to the SAM’s flight trajectory;
- The specified correction is transmitted to the relay satellite, and from there - directly to the SAM.

Moreover, the entire cycle must take a few fractions of a second and be constantly repeated, and the communication must work flawlessly and not be suppressed by electronic warfare.

Fortunately, today's satellites can't do anything like that. The world marvels at Iran's strikes on US bases, and there's little doubt that China's satellite reconnaissance is helping them do so, but still, to hit those same aircraft on the runway:

- Radar reconnaissance is not required, conventional optical reconnaissance is sufficient;

"Images could be transmitted with a delay of several hours. Simply put, the American Stratotankers didn't change their position in space every hour, or even every day. It would have been enough to film the runways where they were clustered for a while and figure out where they were usually positioned when not on combat missions, in order to plan and carry out an attack."

The capabilities of satellite reconnaissance are greatly exaggerated today. The Air Defense Forces play a significant role in this. It's often said that the inability of our Aerospace Forces to achieve air superiority over Ukraine is due to American space reconnaissance, which is capable of tracking our aircraft in the air and promptly reporting them to Ukrainian air defense systems. But if this were true, would the Americans continue purchasing E-2D Advanced Hawkeyes? Would they move their Sentry missiles closer to Iran?

Conclusions


Of course, the star of AWACS aircraft will inevitably set someday. But not today, not tomorrow, and unlikely in the next 40-50 years, so the design and production of such an aircraft for the Russian Aerospace Forces is of utmost importance and utmost necessity.

It's clear that long-range anti-aircraft missiles pose a significant threat and, to a certain extent, limit the capabilities of AWACS aircraft—after all, that's what they were designed for. This is precisely why we need to move away from the "Beloslonism" concept—the monstrous size and cost of the A-100 Premier.


Toward moderately sized and costly aircraft in this class. AWACS aircraft should become as expendable for the Aerospace Forces as operational-tactical aircraft, and their use should be as routine and natural as it is in US naval aviation.

Thank you for attention!
245 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. + 29
    April 13 2026 03: 48
    Excellent article, seriously. The argumentation, the logic – everything is top notch.

    This absurdity spoiled the impression a little.
    The Triton carries a radar called the AN/ZPY-3, which, with a 360-degree view, scans an area of ​​5,200 square kilometers, that is, the viewing radius does not exceed, roughly, 41 kilometers.

    The author, unfortunately, missed a nuance: this is the area scanned during a radar cycle. And this area isn't related to the radar's operating range. It's related to the fact that a synthetic aperture radar scans space in chunks of this size—at least, that's the mode. Very roughly: a short-range cycle is 2000, the beam shifts in range, the next cycle is 3000, the next range shift is 5200.
    Otherwise, how can we explain the fact that the Triton radar capabilities are prescribed
    It is capable of detecting stationary MLRS and SAM launchers at a distance of up to 150–200 km, moving small vehicles and infantry units at a distance of 70–100 km, and it is also capable of detecting low-altitude UAVs and cruise missiles at distances of up to 150 km.

    Source: https://mskfast.ru/news/bpla-strategicheskoy-radiolokatsionnoy-i-optiko-elektronnoy-razvedki-mq-4c-triton-vms-ssha-nachal-k-detalnomu-monitoringu-ostrova-hark

    But the article is an absolute plus.
    1. + 16
      April 13 2026 08: 38
      Thank you very much for correcting my mistake! drinks
      1. +5
        April 13 2026 19: 05
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Thank you very much for correcting my mistake!

        Andrey, I greet you! hi
        A good article on the subject. I'd like to add (or suggest) that the West is trying to solve the cost of the Sky Eye by switching from "mushroom" radars to "hoes," whose equipment is smaller, lighter, and requires fewer operators. The patrol time issue is being addressed by increasing the number of flying radars. Moreover, the carriers used are far from Hercules, but even simple Jets. Even the Ukrainian wind power hasn't denied itself the pleasure of acquiring such a system from the Swedes. The performance of these radars is certainly more modest than that of the Sentry, but quite comparable to the Hawkeyes.
    2. +3
      April 13 2026 22: 56
      The article is an absolute plus.

      That's right. In my commentary on Skomorokhov's article, I also said that he buried the AWACS aircraft too early. They're far from exhausted. And just because we lost a couple of A-50Us in the Northeast Military District doesn't mean they're no longer needed. It's not enough to have these aircraft; we also need to use them wisely, providing them with protection and adequate cover, constantly changing their flight routes. And the technical and technological level of our AWACS systems needs to be radically upgraded, based on our own electronic base, which we have yet to develop. The main problem with our AWACS isn't the availability of aircraft, but the lack of the necessary electronic base and components.
  2. +5
    April 13 2026 04: 18
    Unfortunately, the article does not address the issue of detecting and tracking UAV trajectories, which is currently relevant to us.
    At present, if the Russian Armed Forces had a sufficient number of AWACS and their use against Ukrainian aircraft, the question of proving the use of the Baltic airspace for guiding these systems would not be so acute.
    1. + 10
      April 13 2026 06: 59
      Quote: Apis1962
      Unfortunately, the article does not address the issue of detecting and tracking UAV trajectories, which is currently relevant to us.
      If you believe the American generals, the plane E-3 Sentry can detect an approaching Iranian drone Shahed, launched from 200 miles away, about 85 minutes earlier than ground-based radars...
      1. +1
        April 16 2026 14: 53
        But 85 minutes is five minutes to an hour and a half, and two hundred miles is 320 kilometers, given that the Shahed's speed is approximately 200 km/h. This means that ground-based radars detect the Shahed only just before the strike, when the "lethal moped" is already making its final descent, while the pancake-carrying aircraft detects this drone a few minutes after takeoff. The difference is enormous.
    2. +9
      April 13 2026 08: 40
      Quote: Apis1962
      Unfortunately, the article does not address the issue of detecting and tracking UAV trajectories, which is currently relevant to us.

      AWACS detect them like any other target, but the distance depends on the radar cross-section. I've seen reports that the Advanced Hawkeye can detect UAVs and cruise missiles at 370 km, but I can't vouch for that.
      1. 0
        April 16 2026 15: 03
        I think it's a matter of the radar's radio horizon and altitude—UAVs and cruise missiles hide from ground-based systems behind the terrain and curvature of the Earth's surface, but such tricks are only effective against an AWACS aircraft if the area has sufficiently steep mountains, depressions, and other geological features. Moreover, at high altitude, the air is much thinner, allowing a flying radar to see further than a ground-based one, even with the same power.
  3. +8
    April 13 2026 04: 27
    Truth: Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
  4. + 16
    April 13 2026 04: 35
    Excellent article, but it's a shame we never heard from the head of the transport department about our AWACS...
    1. + 16
      April 13 2026 05: 57
      We still haven't heard...what's going on with our AWACS...

      And that's why they didn't hear anything. And why? Because one such plane costs almost as much as just one deputy defense minister could steal. And there's far more than one of them (the deputies).
    2. +2
      April 13 2026 07: 19
      So, specifically, transport aircraft. Our aircraft industry isn't that far removed from the auto industry. Where are the transport aircraft for conversion into AWACS?
      1. +4
        April 13 2026 07: 24
        There is no need for a transport aircraft anymore, the Tu-204/214 is quite sufficient, it is already a proven bird...
        1. +1
          April 13 2026 07: 26
          How many are there? How many can be mass-produced?
          1. +1
            April 13 2026 07: 30
            More than thirty units were built, Chemezov promised to reach production of 20 units per year by 30 ( bully), okay, let's divide it by 4, let's say at least five pieces a year would already be good....
            1. +3
              April 13 2026 07: 37
              Not bad. We need to do it. We need to do it already.
        2. ptt
          +5
          April 13 2026 08: 38
          Quote: faiver
          There is no need for a transport aircraft anymore, the Tu-204/214 is quite sufficient, it is already a proven bird...

          The Kazan aircraft plant will produce only one TU-214 aircraft this year (out of three planned).
          2024-1 board
          2025-1 board (board RA-64536), plan 4 boards

          At the end of December 2025, the head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, Anton Alikhanov, announced that eight aircraft were planned for production in 2026, with production increasing to 12 in 2027.

          Let it be for now!
          1. +5
            April 13 2026 09: 43
            But twenty years ago, the Tu-214 was flying regularly. I remember flying it to Khabarovsk on business trips. And now, producing one in a year is already an achievement.
            1. +3
              April 13 2026 12: 27
              I also remember how I flew on an IL-96 on business trips and vacations...
          2. 0
            April 13 2026 20: 03
            The sturgeon was reduced to sprat... However, it's time to get used to it.
        3. +3
          April 13 2026 12: 00
          The customer requires operation from airstrips AFTER bombing. Therefore, this requirement can only be met by products originally designed for operation from ground level. The Il-96 and Tu-204/214 aircraft do not meet this requirement.
          In addition, a couple of hours of patrolling + going to the border and returning further reduces the possible platforms.
          Another circumstance dramatically reduces the possibilities for "conditionally large-scale" production of such vehicles. We don't make them outright, but rather remanufacture them from production vehicles, which brings the manufacturing process closer to a "garage" one.
          1. +6
            April 13 2026 12: 07
            Sorry, but a large, unpaved AWACS is stupid, and whoever wrote that into the specifications should at least be kicked out of their position, or ideally, prosecuted for sabotage...
            The time it takes to reach the target can be compensated by refueling in the air.... hi
            1. +2
              April 13 2026 12: 39
              The requirement is not mine )))
              Incidentally, it's entirely justified, if you think about it. The Il-96 and Tu-204 require a 3000+ runway, preferably first-class. To reliably cover the entire territory of the Russian Federation, taking into account backup runways en route to and from the border... It'll take a long time to build, you know. And there's no sponsor for this project yet.
              1. +3
                April 13 2026 13: 01
                The requirement is not mine )))
                - I didn't say that it was yours. bully, and regarding the runway for the Tu-204 Osetra, cut it by a third bully
                1. 0
                  April 13 2026 13: 10
                  You forgot to mentally install a complex on it (the 204th) (reducing the air quality and increasing the weight), an additional engine(s) to spin the generator, and top it up with fuel. And we'll get what we're looking for. After the "repair," the VASO runway became 2600 meters, and the 96th aircraft take off and land just fine. Unladen, of course.
                  1. 0
                    April 13 2026 13: 18
                    Well, yes, if they make an AWACS out of the Tu-1, the required takeoff height will grow.
            2. -1
              April 16 2026 17: 15
              Information:
              "Crews of Il-76 family aircraft (including modifications similar to the A-100) regularly practice landings on snow-covered and unpaved runways as part of combat training. This is a complex task requiring a high level of skill, as the ground must be dry and compact. Although the A-100 is based on the latest Il-76MD-90A, unpaved landing capability is a fundamental feature of all Il-76s."
              1. 0
                April 16 2026 18: 42
                crews yes, but not planes........ bully
      2. +3
        April 13 2026 12: 06
        On the topic of summer:
        Article in Kommersant
        The developer of the An-2 aircraft has proposed restoring the airworthiness of approximately 700 idle aircraft.
        https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/8587387?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fdzen.ru%2Fnews%2Fstory%2Ff9ac968b-fc93-5d87-a7ae-dafcd2c42177
      3. 0
        April 13 2026 13: 23
        Il-76s are produced at a rate of several per year. They could have all been used for AWACS. But they only made one, maybe partially. And so the project was shut down. But at least someone improved their financial situation.
    3. +7
      April 13 2026 08: 47
      Well, what's going on with our AWACS... there are as many of them left there as there will be in the coming years.
      There aren't even enough engineers left to further upgrade the A-50 to the A-50U (the last one was over two years ago). And talking about new systems... well, let's talk about the launch vehicles, of course, but that's, in my humble opinion, deeply secondary, because what are you even going to cram in there? It's no wonder serial production of the new A-50U was quietly curtailed a year and a half after Chemezov's big announcement.
      1. +1
        April 18 2026 12: 58
        There are no people to produce the equipment—the components, etc. Who will do all this? The men in their offices in Moscow? They can only chatter across the country like magpies... and everything is tied to finances, at the behest of those who control the Russian budget—the Americans. If they had to, they would have found the money. No one in the country's leadership wants anything except chatter. Russia has visibly turned into a weak copy of Brazil, one that can barely defend its borders.
  5. + 10
    April 13 2026 04: 38
    I agree with the author. Elephants with plates are so yesterday. Especially if they're filled with 80s goodness.
    But the funny thing is, there's not even an A100. And it's unlikely there ever will be. There's only the budget, as always, "fully utilized."
    1. +6
      April 13 2026 07: 07
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      Elephants with plates are so yesterday.
      Without these, as you call them elephants with plates, stealth fighters such as F-22 or F-35 would be simply blind. And even despite their age and vulnerability to modern long-range weapons, they act as the chief conductor aerial battlefield, providing a complete 360-degree picture. And in the future, they might even be replaced by drones, but for now...
      1. +1
        April 16 2026 17: 33
        For almost 20 years now, everything has been exactly the opposite: since, for reasons of its own security, AWACS cannot approach zones accessible to enemy fighters closer than 200 kilometers today, thus its radio horizon from an altitude of 10 km instead of 350 km becomes 350 - 200 = 150 km, that is, in its previous capacity as an aircraft for both detection and control, it seems to be becoming useless. That's why, just a couple of years after the F-22 entered service in 2005, the Americans adapted it as a mini-AWACS. Positioned in the most vulnerable (and dangerous) center of operations, the F-22's radar, from a ceiling altitude of 19.8 km, monitors the terrain at a range of 110√19/8 = 490 km and transmits all information in a 120° sector to a larger AWACS, where a team of two dozen operators processes the received information and coordinates the actions of their aircraft over a very large area of ​​the theater of operations, many hundreds of square kilometers, even from 500-600 km away from the F-22 under its command (and other F-22s that also receive information). Thus, the larger AWACS does not lose any of its functions as an airborne command post for up to 150 of its aircraft, while remaining completely safe.
        Yes, one more detail: in wartime, two or more fighter flights are assigned to protect a large AWACS force. Their mission is to prevent enemy fighters from getting within missile launch range.
        1. +2
          April 17 2026 07: 44
          Quote: Michael1950
          That's why the Americans, just a couple of years after the F-22 entered service in 2005, adapted it as a mini-AWACS.
          У F-22 и F-35 excellent radars, but they only look forward and can only deviate a few degrees to the side, unlike AWACS, who sees 360°...
          1. +1
            April 17 2026 09: 23
            "A few degrees to the side" - both the APG-77 F-22 and the APG-81 F-35 operate in sectors 120° both in azimuth and in elevation.
            1. +2
              April 17 2026 11: 07
              "A few degrees to the side" - both the APG-77 F-22 and the APG-81 F-35 operate in 120° sectors in both azimuth and elevation
              65°, to be exact...
              1. 0
                April 17 2026 11: 35
                +/- 60° = 120° - to be exact:
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/APG-77
                Azimuth 120°
                Are you too lazy to look in the directory? One click...
                1. +1
                  April 17 2026 18: 59
                  Are you too lazy to look in the directory? One click...
                  Wikipedia is for people like you...
                  1. 0
                    April 17 2026 21: 07
                    Of course, for those who aren't lazy. Please provide your data, source, and where are they from?
  6. ayk
    -13
    April 13 2026 05: 10
    It's easier to build unmanned airships, fill them with the appropriate equipment, and they can do their job for months at an altitude of 20-40 km.
    1. +8
      April 13 2026 06: 10
      Hmm...................................................................................................................................
  7. +7
    April 13 2026 05: 20
    In other words, we see a fundamental difference in the US Air Force and Navy's approaches to AWACS. While the Air Force relies on one such aircraft, roughly, per regiment, the Navy, by any stretch of the imagination, relies on a squadron, or even half a squadron. While the Air Force views an AWACS aircraft as a treasure to be treasured, cherished, and nurtured, the Navy views it as essentially a disposable asset, just like conventional multirole fighters and attack aircraft.
    Why is that? I suspect price played a significant role in this matter.
    Not quite so. The number of Hawkeyes is explained by the specifics of their use. Sailors are required to have 4-5 Hawkeyes on an aircraft carrier.which allows for the continuous 24-hour operation of at least one E-2, as well as the ongoing maintenance of one or two aircraft in the carrier's hangar."Plus a certain number for maintenance and in training units, total - E2D is expected to have 75 units.
    request
    This is precisely why we need to move away from the concept of “Beloslonism” – the monstrous size and cost of the A-100 “Premier”.
    Toward moderately sized and costly aircraft in this class. AWACS aircraft should become as expendable for the Aerospace Forces as operational-tactical aircraft, and their use should be as routine and natural as it is in US naval aviation.
    On the one hand, one cannot help but admit that never before have the author's wishes come true so quickly - as Fighterbomber recently wrote (close to the text) - "A100 all".
    On the other hand, it must be noted that the "white elephantism" of many AWACS was caused by the need to accommodate bulky equipment that had to be supplied with energy and cooled, as well as serviced by a large crew - it was impossible to "squeeze the unsqueezeable" into small spaces.
    request
    Again, one cannot help but note the interesting assumption that "AEW&C aircraft should become the same kind of expendable material for the Aerospace Forces." wassat They will never be "expendable material" under any circumstances, anywhere or ever.
    And they won't be "like in the US Navy" either, because while there is at least a "Storm" model for aircraft carriers, which is being shown around exhibitions, there is only a "model based on this model" for the "small AWACS" - a spitting image of the Hawkeye - and that's it.
    request request
    Here one could take an accounting-economic-auditor's look and ask "what's going on with our budget for 2026," and "what's happening with the production of finished metal products," "how many two-engine aircraft were produced in 2025," or even more simply - "Russia's GDP in January decreased by 2,1% compared to the same month last year." (https://www.rbc.ru/economics/04/03/2026/69a862fd9a7947579a8ae351)
    ...and with all this, think: well, where is this? "AEW&C aircraft should become just as consumable for the Aerospace Forces"...
    You can even name the article according to tradition "Sad recourse a look into the future (even sadder) sad recourse , than was in the 2018 article series). AWACS "
    request request request
    Actually, according to SABZH.
    There is no consensus on which is better, "large or small AWACS".
    Sweden and Israel (not countries with the "biggest microchips") are successfully developing "small AWACS" systems, but these are no longer based on "propeller-driven aircraft," but on business jets. Turboprops, while having obvious advantages noted by the author, have significant drawbacks, such as low cruising and maximum speeds, which complicates the escort of air strike groups and, theoretically, makes it more difficult to "evade" enemy attacks.
    However, "large AWACS" systems like the E3 and E7 have significant advantages. These include speed (maximum and cruising) and range, as well as operational conditions (including possible crew rotation and personnel rest and meals). The E3 can operate without refueling for 8-11 hours. The longest mission for an E3 is reportedly 40 hours and 5 minutes.
    E2 for comparison: 4-5 hours for a standard flight and “more than 8 hours” – a record, with refueling.
    1. +2
      April 13 2026 08: 27
      There is no consensus on which is better, "large or small AWACS".

      Large AWACS were needed during the Soviet era, when hundreds of aircraft were prepared to fight side-by-side. But those days are long gone; now, a dozen versus a dozen is already too much. Hawkeye wasn't tasked with such large-scale missions, so he found himself in action when the Soviet air armies disappeared.
      E2 for comparison: 4-5 hours for a standard flight and “more than 8 hours” – a record, with refueling.
      How much do you need? More than 8 is a very flexible category.
      1. +5
        April 13 2026 08: 46
        The size of the AWACS is more likely determined by the element base when they began to build them, rather than by the wall-to-wall war...
        1. +1
          April 13 2026 09: 36
          The Hawkeye and E3 were essentially developed around the same time, though the Hawkeye has made significant advances in technology. Unlike the E3, the Hawkeye was initially designed to operate relatively small carrier-based aircraft, so the number of operators was initially much smaller.
      2. +1
        April 13 2026 10: 25
        Large AWACS were needed during the Soviet era.
        During the Soviet era, there were no long-range anti-aircraft missiles, nor were there stealth technologies that would completely revolutionize air warfare technology.
        1. 0
          April 13 2026 11: 41
          Quote: Schneeberg
          During the Soviet era, there were no long-range anti-aircraft missiles.

          Actually, there were - S-200.
          1. +1
            April 13 2026 13: 53
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Actually, there were - S-200
            Not enough to reach AWACS
    2. + 11
      April 13 2026 08: 50
      Quote: Wildcat
      Again, one can't help but note the interesting suggestion that "AEW&C aircraft should become just as expendable for the Aerospace Forces." They will never be "expendable" under any circumstances, anywhere, ever.

      They are such in the US Navy.
      Quote: Wildcat
      The number of HawkAis is explained by the specifics of the application.

      One doesn't interfere with the other. However, in terms of tactics, if a serious threat is present, the AUG deploys two air patrols—one 300 km from the air base, the other 600 km toward the threat. Each patrol consists of one Hawkeye, one Growler, and two to four fighters.
      That is, the Navy does not hesitate to place the Hawkeye in the direction of the air threat at 600 km from the air force, where no one will have time to help it, in an escort that does not give it a chance to win in a serious air battle.
      Quote: Wildcat
      Here one could take an accounting-economic-auditor's look and ask, "What's going on with our budget for 2026?"

      The needs of the Aerospace Forces remain unchanged. And our budget currently doesn't allow for anything—salute to our economic geniuses, Nabiullina and the guarantor. I'm writing about what's needed, not what we can afford.
  8. +4
    April 13 2026 06: 43
    We need to try to complete the Yak-44 AWACS; a full-size model of it was even rolled across the deck of one of our aircraft-carrying cruisers. And we should also try to create a compact AWACS like the Swedish ones, based on the Yak-40 type aircraft. AWACS aircraft of this size are needed not only at the front but also now in the rear, given that Flamingos, Storm Sadows, Scalps, and fixed-wing UAVs are breaking through to cities, killing civilians. We might even announce a competition to develop these AWACS aircraft, and also AWACS helicopters like the Ka-27 or Ka-31, if I'm not mistaken.
    1. +9
      April 13 2026 09: 01
      Soldatov V. The problem with our Aerospace Forces having the required number of AWACS aircraft is not the lack of a carrier, but the poor state of our domestic microelectronics production.
      1. 0
        April 13 2026 09: 41
        I completely agree with you. But to create a prototype AWACS aircraft of, so to speak, small size, we could turn to our allies in China for the necessary microelectronics until we can start making it ourselves. For combat testing, we should build at least three or four aircraft.
      2. +4
        April 13 2026 10: 06
        I disagree with you. Well, more precisely... the domestic component base is indeed going through hard times, but acquiring everything needed presents absolutely no problem, other than the cost. Especially if you're making the locally beloved AESA—it can do without any unique, one-off components, the supply of which could otherwise be monitored under sanctions.
        But even without this, high-power output stage tubes are quite readily produced in the Russian Federation... well, at least they were produced five years ago, so even those who prefer high import substitution can be satisfied if desired.
        The problem is not with the element base, but with the lack of people.
        1. +1
          April 13 2026 16: 11
          Engineer, do you understand Russian well enough? No one mentioned the lack of domestically developed components; they're talking about the infancy of those who produce them. Before the sanctions, domestic Elbrus and Baikal processors were manufactured in Taiwan, but then the train left the station. There was no one left to produce them in the same volumes, leading to the sad expression in certain circles: "Elbrus sank, and Baikal froze."
          1. +4
            April 13 2026 16: 38
            Written in Russian? )) Well, I guess I don't understand... For example, characteristics like "poor" and "infantile" seem to suggest... perhaps only that you're dissatisfied with these manufacturers. Because it's impossible to tell from them what exactly you're dissatisfied with in the domestic military-industrial complex... low reliability, limited functionality, efficiency, product range, large dimensions or price, lack of equivalents, dependence on foreign machines and materials, which you mentioned, and maybe even something else I haven't even thought of right now... like limited availability.
            So, my point again is that acquiring foreign ERI isn't a problem at all. Assembling it with a large proportion of domestic ERI is, but still solvable. Finding a team capable of assembling it is an extremely difficult problem. Therefore, the problem isn't the ERI manufacturers that are to blame for our lack of new AWACS aircraft.
            1. +1
              April 13 2026 22: 57
              Of course, it's not the manufacturers that are the problem, but the almost complete absence of those capable of producing in the required volumes.
    2. +8
      April 13 2026 11: 22
      Quote: V.
      We need to try to finish the Yak-44 AWACS; a full-size model of it was even rolled along the deck of one of our aircraft-carrying cruisers.

      This is utopia.
      Completing an aircraft developed in the USSR means redesigning it from scratch. After all, any technically complex product was built by the entire country, and now the sites of most factories are either residential complexes, business centers, or landing sites for UAVs and FABs with UMPKs.
      Just for example: the Yak-44 was designed to use D-27 engines, developed by the Zaporizhzhia-based Progress Machine-Building Design Bureau named after Academician A.G. Ivchenko. Where are we going to get these engines now?
    3. +4
      April 13 2026 11: 28
      Quote: V.
      We need to try to finish the Yak-44 AWACS; a full-size model of it was even rolled along the deck of one of our aircraft-carrying cruisers.

      This is utopia.
      Completing an aircraft developed in the USSR means redesigning it from scratch. After all, any technically complex product was built by the entire country, and now the sites of most factories are either residential complexes, business centers, or landing sites for UAVs and FABs with UMPKs.
      Just for example: the Yak-44 was designed to use D-27 engines, developed by the Zaporizhzhia-based Progress Machine-Building Design Bureau named after Academician A.G. Ivchenko. Where are we going to get these engines now?
      1. +2
        April 13 2026 11: 30
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Because any technically complex product used to be created by the entire country, and now in the place of most factories there are either residential complexes, or business centers, or the landing point of UAVs and FABs with UMPK.

        laughing good
  9. +3
    April 13 2026 06: 53
    In one specialized publication I read an article in which the author very artistically and with a great sense of humor compared the duel of an airplane AWACS with enemy fighters and ground-based air defenses:

    Imagine a large, dark room where no one can see each other, and in that room are two rival gangs of gangsters, dressed in black suits and black masks, holding a pistol in their right hand and a flashlight in their left. Each is afraid to turn on their flashlight, for fear of being shot immediately....

    Flashlights, if anyone doesn't understand, are radars, which, when turned on, will immediately reveal the location AWACS, and the fighter sneaking up on him...
    1. +8
      April 13 2026 08: 21
      Not quite the right analogy. AWACS is capable of operating from a distance outside the kill zone.
      1. 0
        April 13 2026 10: 31
        The AWACS is capable of operating from a distance outside the kill zone.
        The F-22 is capable of sneaking up on an AWACS undetected, following guidance from an F-35, which is also outside the kill zone. I think the Su-75 can do the same now. wink
        1. +3
          April 13 2026 12: 28
          Su-75 off the stocks at KnAz, unlikely
          1. +1
            April 13 2026 16: 34
            Su-75 off the stocks at KnAz, unlikely
            I meant Su-57. There was a typo. wink
        2. 0
          April 13 2026 15: 29
          Quote: Xenon
          The AWACS is capable of operating from a distance outside the kill zone.
          The F-22 is capable of sneaking up on an AWACS undetected, following guidance from an F-35, which is also outside the kill zone. I think the Su-75 can do the same now. wink

          Stealth aircraft aren't completely invisible across the entire radio spectrum. Stealth technology primarily protects aircraft from being locked onto by targeting radars, while meter-range radars can detect them (but can't guide missiles due to their low accuracy). Therefore, the "sneaking" aspect isn't entirely straightforward. The F-35 isn't particularly needed for targeting. The AWACS emits radio signals (that's its job) and is visible to the pilot on the aircraft's radar warning system.
      2. +2
        April 13 2026 11: 36
        Quote from solar
        Not quite the right analogy. AWACS is capable of operating from a distance outside the kill zone.

        If we take the maximum radii, yes. The problem is that seeing a small sector at the edge of the field of view for AWACS and the associated air and air defense systems is too limited. And to see more, the AWACS patrol line would have to be moved closer to the front line. Where it falls within the operating range of DD SAMs and long-range missiles.
        So your searchlights (AWACS radar) are clearly not a flashlight smile ) Air Force ninjas will have to be turned on in the same way as naval ones - at irregular intervals for one full scan. smile
        1. +1
          April 13 2026 13: 09
          Firing at a target covered by electronic warfare and decoys at extreme range is no easy task, especially if the target is hovering at the edge of the kill zone and could simply move beyond it during the missile's flight or change altitude and azimuth.
          1. 0
            April 13 2026 16: 56
            Quote from solar
            Firing at a target covered by electronic warfare and decoys at extreme range is no easy task, especially if the target is hovering at the edge of the kill zone and could simply move beyond it during the missile's flight or change altitude and azimuth.

            The recipe for shooting at such a target is known.
            At first, the enemy's air defense actively simulates the absence of DD SAMs. The command, tempted by the enemy's inaction, begins to move the AWACS patrol line ever closer to the line of contact—because the enemy is deploying ALCMs, requiring a full-range image and guidance for SAMs with ARL homing heads against enemy carriers. The enemy DD SAMs are drawn into the sector. sits like a potato moth - and at the right moment launches.
            1. +3
              April 13 2026 21: 24
              The command, tempted by the inaction of the enemy's air defenses, begins to move the AWACS patrol line ever closer to the line of contact

              It's like a manual on how to fool those stupid Zusuls. It's just Iron Kaput. How long do we have to remain inactive like this? Until the enemy destroys all our air defenses?
      3. 0
        April 13 2026 13: 26
        And who will need him there? )))
    2. +2
      April 13 2026 13: 29
      Quote: Luminman
      Flashlights, in case anyone didn't understand, are radars; when turned on, they will immediately detect the location of both the AWACS and the fighter sneaking up on it...

      One clarification: the AWACS guy with a flashlight is guarded by ninja guys with their flashlights turned off, and this guy (AWACS) is in his room, covered by guys with batons (air defense), but the rival gang of gangsters not only has to make their way through a dark room, but also into someone else's.
      AWACS are like this: they don’t climb into other people’s rooms, they circle and circle over their territory (the Sea of ​​Azov) 200 km from the LBS.
      And yes, they don't have a flashlight, they have a spotlight, and it's always on. And the rival gangsters—yes, with their flashlights off.
      1. +1
        April 13 2026 18: 01
        Quote: don_Reba
        An AWACS guy with a flashlight is guarded by ninja guys with their flashlights off.
        In this case, guys with their flashlights turned off are of no use! wink
        1. +2
          April 13 2026 19: 52
          Quote: Luminman
          In this case, guys with their flashlights turned off are of no use!

          The ones that are guarding the AWACS guy?
          Yes, you sho!
          He has a spotlight, and he whispers in their ear: who to beat, when and where.
    3. 0
      April 16 2026 17: 38
      In wartime, AWACS is protected by two or three fighter wings, and naturally, it will see approaching enemy fighters early enough (if they are not stealth) and alert its fighters.
  10. -4
    April 13 2026 07: 17
    The only thing I can't understand is why the desire for "gigantism" hasn't disappeared during the construction of Russian AWACS aircraft. With the Burevestnik, why not use these technologies to create a UAV capable of circling indefinitely at unattainable altitudes?
    For now, one thing is clear: we won't see the creation and embodiment of the required technology in metal anytime soon...
    1. +1
      April 13 2026 07: 26
      which will be able to circle indefinitely at an unattainable height...
      - What kind of altitude is this if they are already shooting down satellites?
    2. +2
      April 13 2026 13: 36
      Quote: yuriy55
      Why, having the Burevestnik in stock

      1. Are you sure you had it? They told us it was 17 hours... No one saw the chassis. Where did it splash down next? Into the ocean or onto a testing ground on New Earth, trashing the sea/planet?
      2. The mythical "Storm Petrel" has an elliptical midsection, approximately 1 x 1,5 m, meaning an antenna aperture of ~1-1,2 m2 with a 60-80 degree field of view, strictly on course, and limited means of transmitting data to the ground.
      Who needs such an AWACS? The MiG-31 with a counter-aircraft missile is more environmentally friendly and orders of magnitude cheaper.
  11. +1
    April 13 2026 07: 36
    Incidentally, the US Air Force cancelled a contract for a batch of new Boeing 737-based ADRs late last year. Apparently, in favor of unmanned aircraft, especially with Starlink, having operators on board has become pointless.
    1. +1
      April 13 2026 15: 35
      Quote: Freeal
      With the Burevestnik in hand, why not use these technologies to create a UAV capable of circling indefinitely at an unattainable altitude?

      Apparently they will switch to a distributed detection network, which is more stable than one or two large AWACS aircraft.
  12. +8
    April 13 2026 08: 20
    An excellent, serious article. Respect to the author.
  13. Owl
    +5
    April 13 2026 08: 55
    The missions facing this type of aviation may change somewhat, and a transition to smaller detection systems (thanks to technological advances) will lead to a reduction in the cost and size of the carrier aircraft. Whatever the mission—reconnaissance, air defense, target acquisition, or command and control—the key is to continue developing and operating new models. As with the Admiral Kuznetsov heavy aircraft carrier, there will be no aircraft carrier, no carrier-based aviation, and the nascent tactics and resources, along with the time invested in developing the naval carrier-based aviation, will be lost.
    1. 0
      April 13 2026 10: 14
      When asked why AWACS aircraft are so large, radar experts will say it's so complicated, so difficult... they're believed blindly, but unless you're in church, knowledge and understanding are better than blind faith. The main reason for AWACS's large size is the principle it uses: a signal sent by an aircraft is reflected off a target and returned to the aircraft, where its direction and delay are determined, and the target's coordinates are calculated. This requires a lot of expensive equipment and 10-15 operators. This is despite the fact that radar uses wavelengths from a meter to 10 centimeters. For comparison, the eye, for example, of a reader, receives information (in the form of light) at frequencies of 750-500 nm (a nanometer is 1 billion times smaller than a meter). That is, the amount of information reaching the reader's head per second is orders of magnitude greater than the amount of information in the reflected AWACS signal, but the reader's head still has time to process everything. How is this possible? Yes, because the nature of vision is based on the detection of contrast and its angular dimensions, and such nonsense as calculating the time of travel of radio waves and light back and forth, the Doppler effect, is not needed by nature.
      Therefore, we should expect a sharp reduction in the size of AWACS assets and a decrease in their cost.
      1. +3
        April 13 2026 11: 36
        Quote: agond
        To the question why the dimensions of the AWACS aircraft are so large

        Answer: Antenna area and generator/storage energy
        And for the PS-890 AESA it's always 240 degrees
  14. 0
    April 13 2026 09: 39
    Common sense dictates that devices with the same purpose, but so noticeably different in size and at the same level of scientific and technological progress, should differ significantly in their capabilities.
    Detection characteristics are determined by the ratio of signal energy to noise spectral density. Signal energy, of course, depends on power, but it also depends on many other parameters. Therefore, it's not surprising that when "equalizing" power to a single level, the signal energy of a fighter's radar will be an order of magnitude, or even two, higher than that of an AWACS radar, with corresponding consequences for detection range. This indicates the lower efficiency of some radars compared to others, despite the same level of scientific and technological progress, different schools, and different commanders...
    1. +1
      April 13 2026 10: 08
      Quote: Hexenmeister
      This speaks precisely to the lower efficiency of some radars compared to others.

      ??:))) You are giving some general reasoning without specifics and based on them - this is the conclusion?
      1. 0
        April 13 2026 11: 32
        is that the conclusion?
        No! The conclusion is this.
        the signal energy of a fighter's radar will be an order of magnitude, or even two, greater than that of an AWACS aircraft's radar, with corresponding consequences in the detection range
        1. +1
          April 13 2026 11: 49
          Quote: Hexenmeister
          The conclusion is this

          This is clear, but it is not clear what it is based on.
          1. 0
            April 13 2026 14: 30
            Different signals are used, namely in terms of signal energy, plus non-trivial methods of increasing the detection range.
  15. -1
    April 13 2026 09: 58
    The functions of AWACS aircraft can be successfully performed by a satellite constellation.

    The American one might, but the Russian Federation is unlikely to, and the AWACS can provide targeting guidance both on the ground and in the air in real time.
  16. +1
    April 13 2026 10: 07
    AWACS aircraft can be equipped with UAVs with AESA; this will “move” the eyes and ears to a safe distance from the aircraft and expand the AWACS’s field of view.
  17. +1
    April 13 2026 10: 51
    It's better to be healthy and rich and make both AWACS aircraft and drones. Aircraft require a platform, which essentially doesn't exist. We've already had the Yak-44 and An-71. Only the MC21 and the import-substituting Superjet loom on the horizon.
  18. +2
    April 13 2026 11: 15
    Quote: Author
    It's all about the constant improvement of radar systems on multi-role fighters, which are gradually capable of detecting targets at a distance of 300–400 km. This is already becoming comparable to the capabilities of the same E-3C Sentry.,

    And then I was stunned. They will never be comparable.
    1. +1
      April 13 2026 11: 31
      Quote: don_Reba
      They will never be comparable

      The radars won't be comparable. But the ability to detect targets at a distance of 400 km is quite possible (without taking other parameters into account).
      1. +3
        April 13 2026 11: 48
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        at a distance of 400 km - quite

        Never.
        The formula speaks to me more than the fantasies of Skomorokhov(s)
        The old AN/APY-1/2(V) with an area of ​​12,5 sq.m and a power (I assume) of 40-50 kW will always win by 2-3 times over the an/agp-77 with 0,82 sq.m and 18,5 kW.
        1. +5
          April 13 2026 12: 28
          Quote: don_Reba
          An old AN/APY-1/2(V) heater with an area of ​​12,5 sq.m and a power output (I assume) of 40-50 kW

          You're making an assumption about the power, but you don't know it. But most importantly, your calculations are valid only for radars of the same design level. For example, a phased array radar with the same power and antenna area could have an advantage in detection range over older radars. And besides the antenna itself, there's also the electronics that process the signal, etc.
          1. +3
            April 13 2026 13: 17
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            You make an assumption about the power, but you don't know it.

            I assume, based on:
            1. Radar instrument range (you can recalculate it yourself using the ORL)
            2. "Power plants on board"
            Aircraft Generator Power, kVA
            707-320 160
            E-2C 180
            A-300B 270
            L1011 360
            DC-10 360
            Nimrod 360
            E-3A 600
            E-4B 1200
            3. Comparison with "Shmel-M"
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            For example, a phased array radar with the same power and antenna area could have an advantage in detection range over older radars.

            Where in the formula is it: slot/PVAR/AFAR/Parabola?
            I'll give you a hint about the gain factor.
            But if the pin vs. parabola is significant, then the slot vs. phased array is only <1-2 dB (Shmel-M vs. AN/APY-1)
            Everything has been FAR and CAR for a long time now
            Yes, a phased array will provide an advantage in inertialess beam scanning, allowing for greater flexibility in pattern formation and the ability to simultaneously engage multiple targets/communication channels, and counteract interference. But in terms of range, it's practically nonexistent.
            Here is power/aperture and pulse duration/frequency response
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Besides the antenna itself, there is also electronics that process the signal, etc.

            Comparing a flying Cray and 10 operators with real brains and full-fledged screens against a meager on-board computer, a tablet, and a downtrodden pilot isn't even serious.
            And the mean time between failures...
            AWACS What is this like? raise to 10 km heights2a PBU 55K6E, 92N6E MRLS, 1RL220VE/Orion, Polyana-D4M1/command post of the army air force, 98Zh6E with 15I6ME, and five NPP-40-1
            and all this in comfortable conditions: coffee/air conditioning/chair.
            Is there a gain (and there is definitely a loss) between the forced X-band radar and the S/L-band AWACS? Judge for yourself...
            1. +3
              April 13 2026 13: 52
              Quote: don_Reba
              I assume, based on:
              1.Instrumental range of the radar

              Reasonable. But such a calculation can only be made with a clear understanding of the target's EPR—that's where the problems begin.
              Quote: don_Reba
              Where in the formula is it: slot/PVAR/AFAR/Parabola?
              I'll give you a hint about the gain factor.

              Let me give you a hint: I've seen data on the Advanced Hawkeye that also claims 50 kW. The antenna area is smaller than that of the Sentry. However, its target detection range with an RCS of 1 m2 is listed as 550 km. This may be incorrect, but in general, it's usually listed as 200-250 km higher than the Sentry's.
              Quote: don_Reba
              Comparing a flying Cray and 10 operators with real brains and full-fledged screens against a meager on-board computer, a tablet, and a downtrodden pilot isn't even serious.

              Which is actually what the article is about.
              1. +1
                April 13 2026 14: 30
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                The EPR of the target is what we are talking about, that's where the problems begin.

                R instrumental = s*Tim/2 .
                C = 300,000 km/s
                Tim= time between pulses.
                For playing with EPR, take 1 sq.m.

                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Let me give you a hint - for Advanced Hawkeye I came across data of the same 50 kW.

                AN/APS-125: 3,84 kW
                AN/APS-145(V) = as much as 1 MW in pulse.
                50 kW is probably including the gluttonous AN/APA-172 tubes. The entire on-board network.
                I want it simpler (if there is no storm): a smooth surface without forests, mountains, houses
                it is in UHF, and AN/APY-1 is in S/E
                Substitute 10 cm-70 cm into the URL in "lambda", and compare if you put 7,5 cm-15 cm/0,3-0,4 cm
                (square and take the 4th root)
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                at Sentry at 200-250 km.

                nautical miles! (Nm) not km
                1. +1
                  April 13 2026 15: 38
                  Quote: don_Reba
                  For playing with EPR, take 1 sq.m.

                  So here's the problem - they often write the size of the detected target as "fighter", but if earlier this meant 3-5 squares, then later they began to use one.
                  In general, of course, I agree with your argumentation.
                  And yes, about 250, it’s not the detection distance, it’s the difference.
                  1. +4
                    April 13 2026 15: 52
                    Basically, to compare
                    The detection ranges of AN/APY-1 versus AN/APG-77 can be either 1 or 100 (overkill, of course), the main thing is that they are the same.
                    AN/APY-1 will always win.
                    What those who dream of installing airborne radars (Irbis or 77s) on Zerzhbandels or Orions forget, and what the manufacturer modestly keeps silent about, is the detection range of these airborne radars on oncoming and catch-up courses.
                    And there the difference is almost an order of magnitude.
                    Do you understand what I mean?
                    But AN/APY-1 is all around the drum (almost).

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    In general, of course, I agree with your argumentation.

                    And thank you for the article, otherwise the buffoons will throw away all the AWACS, of which there are almost none, and switch to satellites and laser weapons.
                    No one will refuse a DRLO.
                    Of course, it's more reasonable/efficient/cheaper to install AESA. These are on Gulfstreams/Saabs and RQ-4 Global Hawks 🥱 for those who have them, of course.
                    But this is a completely different level of component base. And we couldn't master the "premier" A-100 in 15 years, having spent billions of rubles; it's time to switch to steam locomotives.
                    And the satellite "AWACS" thing is not funny at all.
                    1. +3
                      April 13 2026 17: 41
                      Quote: don_Reba
                      What those who dream of installing airborne radars (Irbis or 77s) on Zerzhbandels or Orions forget, and what the manufacturer modestly keeps silent about, is the detection range of these airborne radars on oncoming and catch-up courses.

                      By the way, yes, thank you! I hadn't thought of that. You're absolutely right – I should have run the formulas through it. It wouldn't have fundamentally changed the article, but the argumentation would have been much more sound.
                      I'd be happy to hear your comments in the future. As the saying goes, "I absolutely don't see why two noble dons..." laughing
                      1. +6
                        April 13 2026 19: 51
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I absolutely do not see why two noble dons...

                        😆
                        It's rare to meet a well-read person (nowadays).
                        Otherwise, my opponents in the dispute mostly classify me as belonging to the Jewish tribe...
                    2. 0
                      April 16 2026 00: 21
                      Quote: don_Reba
                      What those who dream of installing airborne radars (Irbis or 77s) on Zerzhbandels or Orions forget, and what the manufacturer modestly keeps silent about, is the detection range of these airborne radars on oncoming and catch-up courses.

                      Firstly, not every manufacturer is silent. Secondly, who on Orion, let alone an airship, is trying to catch up with anyone?
                      Quote: don_Reba
                      And there the difference is almost an order of magnitude.

                      If we use the ternary number system.
                      Quote: don_Reba
                      Do you understand what I mean?

                      If you indicate who we will be catching on the airship, then everything will become clear.
                      Quote: don_Reba
                      But AN/APY-1 is all around the drum (almost).

                      It's all the same, the physics are the same for everyone. It's just that the AWACS doesn't work in pursuit.
                      Quote: don_Reba
                      Of course, it's more reasonable/efficient/cheaper to install AESA. These are on Gulfstreams/Saabs and RQ-4 Global Hawks 🥱 for those who have them, of course.

                      A rotating dish is better. There are no beam deflection losses. And Gulfstreams and Saabs are not designed to operate from damaged runways.
                      Quote: don_Reba
                      And the satellite "AWACS" thing is not funny at all.

                      "Of course it is!" The satellite is flying too fast; reflections from the ground will drown everything out.
  19. -1
    April 13 2026 11: 28
    Currently, Russia produces almost no small- or medium-weight aircraft. However, it produces over 200 helicopters annually. Much of the country lacks airfields, and the North is the most dangerous region for aviation. Therefore, the Mi-8/Mi-17 could be an excellent platform for an AWACS helicopter. There's also the Mi-8 MTPR, which features powerful additional turbogenerators, electronic warfare equipment, and antennas.
    1. +7
      April 13 2026 12: 24
      Quote: Dmitry Eon
      Therefore, the Mi8/Mi17 could be an excellent platform for creating an AWACS helicopter.

      A helicopter is a poor platform (it only has the ability to take off and land in a small area): speed <200 km/h, it loses the advantage of a fighter's radar (700-900 km/h), combat radius/loitering time in the area, antenna "delivery" speed, antenna aperture/power capabilities. And as for the operator's working conditions in the noise-vibration capsule... ugh.
      And yes, in Russia there are big problems with antennas of this size.
      1. +1
        April 13 2026 13: 31
        That's the thing, the dimensions of a fighter's radar are limited by aerodynamics, and yes, it would be great if Russia produced dozens of light aircraft a year and used them as a basis for developing AWACS aircraft, but now we need to buy a turnkey aviation industry somewhere. Helicopters already exist, and are being produced in quite a respectable series.
        1. +3
          April 13 2026 14: 12
          Quote: Dmitry Eon
          And helicopters already exist and are being produced in quite a respectable series.

          Helicopter production in Russia is negligible (Serdyukov will not let me lie)
          The Ka-27 is no longer in production.
          3-4 Ka-27Ms are modernized per year.
          Quote: Dmitry Eon
          The fact is that the dimensions of a fighter's radar are limited by aerodynamics.

          The helicopter's AESA "Kop'e-A" radar is inferior to the Su-35's PFAR.
          1. +1
            April 13 2026 15: 19
            "In 2022, our holding company, Russian Helicopters, produced 296 helicopters. Last year, it was 134; this year, it's 296—a significant increase. This is, of course, primarily due to the increase in the state defense order: under the state defense order, we doubled the production of military helicopters, but we were also working on civilian helicopters," Mr. Chemezov said.
            https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/6147823
            It may be a lie, of course, but the meanings are quite good.
            As for the radar, the phased array antennas can be placed on each side, just as the antennas of the electronic warfare system are placed on the Mi-8MTPR or the previous Mi-8PP.
            1. +1
              April 13 2026 15: 29
              Quote: Dmitry Eon
              produced 296 helicopters. Last year there were 134, this year there are 296, a significant increase

              For the whole country, for everyone. And everyone needs it, just yesterday.
              ☝️Count the lost since 2022 (the last two Ka-52s, the one intercepted by the UAVs)
              "The US Army has nearly 3900 manned aircraft, most of which are helicopters."

              List of key players in the helicopter market:
              Airbus SAS (Netherlands);
              Textron, Inc. (USA);
              Leonardo SpA (Italy);
              Boeing Company (USA);
              Rostec (Russia);
              Robinson Helicopter Company (USA);
              Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd (Japan);
              Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) (India);
              Kaman Corporation (USA).

              Well, as for civilians, the data in the table (I think it's 2021) is shocking.
              Quote: Dmitry Eon
              As for the radar, the phased array panels can be placed on each side,

              Maybe it's possible, but a small aperture is pointless; a large one would require making a door in the canvas and bringing out the plane: the aerodynamics would go up the drain.
              And keep in mind that to go right to left along the plate will require at least 5-6 tons of payload, including the offal, and you’ll also have to add an APU with a generator
  20. +2
    April 13 2026 12: 15
    To do this you need “very little”:

    👍
    1. +2
      April 13 2026 12: 57
      Quote: don_Reba
      👍

      It seems we agree on this point:)))))))
      1. +5
        April 13 2026 14: 04
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        It seems we agree on this point:)))))))

        undoubtedly.
        Transmission of SAM data and target designation from a satellite to a flying SAM (at 3000 m/s) with a limited satellite receiving antenna (and there is no other option, look at the dimensions)...
        I'll tell you, this is a task for an alcohol-clouded mind.
        And I'm not just talking about ping.
  21. +5
    April 13 2026 12: 15
    A very balanced article, without any revolutionary rhetoric about "miracle satellites." It's great that it sets the direction for the development of the Russian Aerospace Forces, which, unfortunately, refuses to develop. After all, nothing prevented us from acquiring equivalents of the E-3D. I admit that economics prevented us from doing so, but... we had to have a design and a proven prototype that could be put into production if necessary. However, the Russian attitude of "maybe we won't need it, we'll probably get by, we'll somehow whip up something, some ram and sticks, if necessary" remains ingrained in the minds of military leaders. Our main problem is that military leaders wait for orders to think for themselves, are afraid to do so independently, and then, when that order comes, they retreat with astonishing efficiency. Not all are like that, but most are.
  22. +2
    April 13 2026 13: 19
    Further developing this topic, we can discuss the differences in requirements for aircraft of this type for "conditionally peaceful" times and combat operations (of any intensity).
    In the first case, the economy is included as a critical factor, in the second - time.
    Interestingly, in the second case, we ideally need a serial platform + serial system. And "serial" not in the sense of being assigned a serial number, but rather produced in dozens or more units per year.
    It is obvious that the specifications for the Premier must be radically revised from this point of view.
    1. +1
      April 13 2026 15: 45
      Quote: VasilyI
      It is obvious that the specifications for the Premier must be radically revised from this point of view.

      And throw out the crazy requirements from the technical specifications regarding unpaved airfields.
      1. -1
        April 16 2026 00: 02
        Quote: Cympak
        And throw out the crazy requirements from the technical specifications regarding unpaved airfields.

        There is nothing to throw out; there was no such requirement in the technical specifications.
  23. -3
    April 13 2026 17: 03
    The author's logic is flawed. AWACS aircraft of the future will be unmanned. Secondly, they will be cheap and numerous, so losing them won't be a shame. Thirdly, they will only have a radar, with the main equipment being stored somewhere off-site. Modern directional communication systems make this entirely possible.

    And, most importantly, the United States needs large and powerful AWACS aircraft in its wars of conquest. They need to cover vast territories of undeveloped theaters of operations. When defending, however, they can have multiple antennas, even on crop dusters, taking off on demand.
    1. +3
      April 13 2026 17: 45
      Quote: also a doctor
      The AWACS aircraft of the future will be unmanned. Secondly, they will be cheap and numerous, so losing them won't be a shame. Thirdly, they will only have a radar.

      You should at least read the article a little before you start spouting such nonsense:))))
      The radar is an important component of the AWACS, and you are proposing to remove it.
      UAVs with radar will not be cheap, and therefore they will not be numerous.
      Quote: also a doctor
      When defending, you can have multiple antennas, even on crop dusters, taking off as needed.

      This is absolutely brutal - especially considering that the article clearly states why detection range is a critical parameter for AWACS.
      But you are not a reader, you are a writer
  24. DO
    -2
    April 13 2026 18: 35
    1. Classic AWACS. Large, unwieldy, but capable of long loitering periods, with a powerful radar and a crew.
    They have many advantages, but there are two disadvantages:
    a) They cannot be used in dangerous proximity to the combat zone (two A-50s shot down near the SVO zone, A-50s damaged on the ground by Ukrainian drones, one US AWACS aircraft recently destroyed and one heavily damaged on the ground by Iranian missiles) are illustrations of this.
    b) How many new A-50, A-100, and their analogs have been produced over the past 30 years? The generally accepted answer is none. How many new A-50/100 analogs will be produced over the next 10 years? Not just carriers, but fully equipped, fully tested AWACS aircraft? The most likely prediction is zero.
    Conclusions:
    - it would be advisable to use the several A-50 aircraft that Russia has for enhanced air defense of the central region of Russia, where sooner or later unique enterprises of critical Russian technologies will be deployed/evacuated;
    - Over the next 10 years, without radar reconnaissance aircraft, we could easily lose the war; therefore, whether we like it or not, we'll have to mass-produce other radar reconnaissance systems in the near future.
    2. In the Air Defense Zone, fighters with airborne radars are already used as radar reconnaissance aircraft. Their speed and maneuverability allow them to evade or avoid enemy anti-aircraft missiles. Su-35, Su-30, and Su-57 airborne radars are used to detect airborne targets. For ground target detection, the Su-34 with its UKR-RL modification "Sych" side-looking radar pod is best suited.
    To increase the range and accuracy of detection, it would be a good idea to replace the existing built-in radars of the Su-35, Su-30, and reconnaissance Su-34 with the modern AESA radar "Belka", used on the Su-57.
    3. Loitering low-speed UAVs for radar reconnaissance - to create a radar field on several lines of rear echeloned air defense in the European part of Russia, in the Far East and along the Northern Sea Route.
    The development of such radar reconnaissance UAVs has been announced (a mockup of the Inokhodets was presented), but not a single one is in serial production. Therefore, it would be advisable to expedite serial production of the Sirius/Inokhodets and Altius UAVs with an integrated Belka serial radar. Comparing the performance of such a solution with that of a classic AWACS and UAV is pointless, due to the practical impossibility of organizing production of a "classic" aircraft within the same timeframe as a radar reconnaissance UAV. Better than nothing.
    4. Tethered air defense balloons. Example: http://rosaerosystems.ru/aero/obj16 :
    "The Puma tethered balloon was designed to carry early warning radars."
    1. DO
      -1
      April 13 2026 18: 46
      PS
      Perhaps it would be appropriate to develop and produce an unmanned reconnaissance version of the Su-3X (or Su-75) fighter, with a Belka radar and a Sych pod.
      1. +1
        April 13 2026 19: 05
        Quote: DO
        Perhaps it would be right

        There wouldn't be:)
    2. vBR
      -1
      April 14 2026 09: 12
      No aircraft can, in principle, "evade" a surface-to-air missile or an air-to-air missile, because they can't maneuver with sufficient acceleration (assuming the missile's homing system has engaged it). They might try to quickly escape if the missile is very far away, but even then, that's likely a matter of pure luck or a rather unruly attack, where the goal isn't so much to shoot down as to intimidate.
      1. +1
        April 14 2026 09: 53
        Quote: Vbr
        No aircraft can, in principle, "dodge" an anti-aircraft missile or an air-to-air missile because they cannot maneuver with sufficient acceleration.

        They can. A missile defense maneuver doesn't require superior acceleration or the ability to withstand higher G-forces—it's based on something else.
        1. 0
          April 15 2026 18: 22
          Now comes the issue of creating towed and deployable flares. Primitive flares are no longer an option. They need to fly at aircraft speed for at least several tens of seconds and have the appropriate radar cross-section. They need to be built within the Nursa's dimensions so they can be deployed from the existing unit.
        2. 0
          April 17 2026 12: 15
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: Vbr
          No aircraft can, in principle, "dodge" an anti-aircraft missile or an air-to-air missile because they cannot maneuver with sufficient acceleration.

          They can. A missile defense maneuver doesn't require superior acceleration or the ability to withstand higher G-forces—it's based on something else.

          "No, no, to perform an anti-missile maneuver, you need the ability to generate high G-forces and withstand them. Which is absolutely impossible in the modern era."
          The maximum available overload of the AIM-120D air-to-air missile, the most widely used one, is 40g; the maximum operational overload of any fighter is 10g.
          And for short-range missiles it is even higher:
          AIM-132 — 50g
          AIM-9C —-- 60g
          Python 5 — 70g
          A-Darter — 100g
          There's no escape...
          1. +1
            April 17 2026 13: 13
            Quote: Michael1950
            "No, no, to perform an anti-missile maneuver, you need the ability to generate high G-forces and withstand them. Which is absolutely impossible in the modern era."

            No need:)))) It's enough to do what manned aircraft can do. Just remember that a missile doesn't fly at an aircraft, but rather at a certain lead point, where the aircraft will be when it approaches—and this lead point depends on the angular displacement rate in the plane. The point of an anti-missile maneuver isn't to twist the missile (which is impossible), but to miscalculate the interception point.
            1. -1
              April 17 2026 13: 27
              - And how will the pilot of the attacked aircraft perform this remarkable maneuver?! wink The missile's microprocessor, receiving information from its onboard radar at each subsequent moment in time, recalculates this meeting point again and again, based on the target's trajectory and its own, and the range to the target...
              1. +2
                April 17 2026 14: 32
                Quote: Michael1950
                The missile's microprocessor, receiving information from its onboard radar at each subsequent moment in time, recalculates this meeting point again and again.

                I'm flying straight ahead—for the missile, which is following me directly, I'm a dot; there's no angular displacement; it's following me. I begin to gain altitude at a rate of 5 meters per second—the missile, with a flight time of 10 seconds, should retarget at a point 50 meters above my current position. The next second, I turn further and begin descending at a rate of 5 meters per second; the missile should change direction from a point 50 meters above me to 50 meters below me... Basically, to keep up with my maneuvers, the missile needs to maneuver much more energetically than I do, and not just mimic my maneuvers. That's where they confuse it.
            2. vBR
              0
              April 29 2026 22: 08
              Ну сказки не рассказывайте. Ракета не может ошибиться. Она, во-первых, постоянно следит за самолётом и пересчитывает свою траекторию мгновенно, а во-вторых энергичность маневра у неё такая, что самолёт просто развалился бы на части, если бы так попытался. Ну и скорость - если она не летит просто болванкой за пределами зоны поражения - несопоставимо выше.
              1. +1
                April 30 2026 08: 39
                Quote: Vbr
                Ну сказки не рассказывайте. Ракета не может ошибиться.

                Can.
                Quote: Vbr
                Ну и скорость

                Важна не скорость, как таковая, а изменение угловой скорости. Впрочем, как я понимаю, все эти угловые скорости для Вас из разряда сказок?
                1. vBR
                  0
                  April 30 2026 21: 32
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Quote: Vbr
                  Ну сказки не рассказывайте. Ракета не может ошибиться.

                  Can.
                  Quote: Vbr
                  Ну и скорость

                  Важна не скорость, как таковая, а изменение угловой скорости. Впрочем, как я понимаю, все эти угловые скорости для Вас из разряда сказок?

                  Угловая скорость цели важна, не её изменение. Ну так самолёт не может такую создать, чтобы головка его потеряла, а ракета не довернула. Никакие мыслимые и немыслимые маневры самолёт не спасут. Ракеты и делаются, чтоб самолёты сбивать, а самолёт не делается для того, чтобы "переманеврировать" ракету, да и невозможно это физически. Можно испортить или подавить наведение иногда или заставить навестись на ложную цель, но это никак не связано с "маневрированием".
                  1. 0
                    April 30 2026 21: 48
                    Quote: Vbr
                    Угловая скорость цели важна, не её изменение.

                    Именно изменение и важно. Подлетное время ракеты - 10 сек, если изменение угловой скорости 1 м/с без ускорения, то цель через 10 сек будет в 10 м от текущей позиции. Если же у цели при той же скорости ускорение 1м/с то через 10 с она будет в 60 м. Так это равноускоренное движение, а если ускорение увеличивается? То есть если самолет к примеру летит змейкой, то ракете приходится делать за ним куда более широкую змейку целясь в место, где самолет окажется если на пике ускорения продолжит движение в ту же сторону - вот туда и "улетает" ее большая маневренность и перегрузки.
                    А если вспомнить, что на большую дальность ракета летит уже выработав топливо, то у нее банально энергетики может не хватить
      2. DO
        +2
        April 14 2026 13: 30
        Vbr, for example, a commentator from the SVO zone posted the text of the communications of an Su-34 crew on a combat mission to drop glide bombs. This Su-34, using the cues of the Su-35 pilot covering it, managed to dodge four missiles during the mission. The guys certainly took an incredible risk, but they proved that your assertion, "No aircraft can 'dodge' a surface-to-air missile or an air-to-air missile," is incorrect.
        1. vBR
          0
          April 29 2026 22: 34
          Они не увернулись, а улетели от них, потому что были на достаточно большом расстоянии от места пуска. А ракета за дистанцией поражения, когда топливо кончилось, теряет скорость, особенно если заставлять её маневрировать, но обычно это как раз и невозможно, о чем я и писал выше. У самолёта не та скорость, чтобы создавать для ракеты какие-то неожиданности.
          1. DO
            0
            April 30 2026 00: 06
            Vbr, по-Вашему в ВСУ операторы ЗРК и бойцы с ПЗРК четырежды неумехи и дураки? Чтоб 4 раза выстрелить по самолету, который находится вне зоны их поражения?
            Если бы экипажи Су-34 думали так легкомысленно, он давно бы уже не летали.
      3. +1
        April 17 2026 09: 20
        - Against missiles with radar homing heads, an aircraft must have good electronic warfare systems. Against aircraft with an electro-optical component included in the homing head, such as the SAM "David's Sling" SAM system, the attacked aircraft must be equipped with a powerful laser countermeasure device:
        https://youtu.be/qGdrKsdkIeQ
        https://www.elbitsystems.com/air-space/airborne-self-protection/dircm-systems/music
    3. 0
      April 14 2026 16: 20
      Quote: DO
      3. Loitering low-speed UAVs for radar reconnaissance - to create a radar field on several lines of rear echeloned air defense in the European part of Russia, in the Far East and along the Northern Sea Route.

      as well as balloons and other means equipped with radar.
      And not only for territorial coverage - stationary tracking stations have many shortcomings, including blind spots, and they must be supplemented by aerial patrol.
      Quote: DO
      Therefore, it would be advisable to quickly organize serial production of the Sirius/Inohodets and Altius UAVs

      I don't think so. AWACS and radio reconnaissance UAVs require their own platform. Probably one with a higher payload and different flight characteristics optimized for their operation.
      1. DO
        -1
        April 14 2026 19: 08
        Quote: multicaat
        as well as balloons

        The advantage of a hot air balloon is that it does not require any fuel to remain suspended in the air.
        However, to avoid wasting fuel, the balloon must be tethered. For a balloon/airship to not be blown away by the wind, it must have an engine and waste fuel. And yet, a strong wind will blow it away.
        But a tethered balloon has a winch (used to lower it in strong winds and for maintenance) and a ground-based high-voltage source or converter, which supplies power to the balloon's equipment via a special cable. A communication system is also necessary. This means that personnel must maintain this system on the ground. This isn't an insurmountable problem near a protected facility, as there's usually residential infrastructure around it. But what about the vast, sparsely populated Russian territories, where there's not only no housing but also no roads? Should a helicopter be used to transport food for the staff and fuel for the generator?
        It is simpler and cheaper to launch aircraft-type AWACS and radio channel repeaters from an airfield where there is civilization.

        Quote: multicaat
        I don't think so. AWACS and radio reconnaissance UAVs require their own platform. Probably one with a higher payload and different flight characteristics optimized for their operation.

        Who would argue? But how many years would it take to develop and test such a UAV—the equivalent of the Globalhawk? During that time, enemies, taking advantage of Russia's lack of radar reconnaissance, would completely destroy our infrastructure. And that would essentially mean military defeat. Because the Russian Armed Forces, which are supposed to enforce peace on the enemy, would be left defenseless without this infrastructure.
        1. 0
          April 15 2026 09: 40
          Quote: DO
          The advantage of a balloon... But what about the vast, sparsely populated Russian territories?

          approach flexibly based on specific local conditions.
          Where there are strong winds and mountains, balloons won't work very well.
          but we have quite a few territories where they are applicable.
          Regarding off-road resupply for remote outposts, the USSR developed a wide range of projects. For example, air cushions, EKIP, aerosleds, and the like. In my opinion, combined with satellite navigation, it would be very useful to develop large-scale (tens of thousands) transport drones, either fixed-wing or with rotary engines, with a payload capacity of 500-1500 kg. They would not require huge investments in outpost infrastructure and could be piloted remotely.
          In general, it's critical for our country to develop transport covering distances greater than 500 km, and for Siberia, over 800 km, yet the government barely gives it a second thought. When the chips were down and there was nothing left to fly, they started fussing. But they couldn't care less. The transport aviation development program failed miserably and shamefully.
          1. DO
            0
            April 15 2026 12: 17
            Quote: multicaat
            take a flexible approach based on specific local conditions

            Yes, that's right.

            Quote: multicaat
            It would be very useful to develop mass production (tens of thousands) of aircraft-type transport drones or those with rotary engines with a lifting capacity of 500-1500 kg

            The American Osprey tiltrotor is designed for personnel transport, so to maintain the cabin's orientation relative to gravity, it is equipped with tilting thrusters. A cargo drone doesn't need tilting thrusters, as it carries inanimate objects. Therefore, a tailsitter glider is more efficient, cheaper, simpler, and more reliable. It takes off and lands vertically on its tail, and in flight, its body and fixed propeller axes assume a horizontal position, flying like an airplane.
            However, for today's workday, it would be advisable to postpone long-term developments until peacetime, and to direct the country's main resources toward rapid solutions for the serial production of everything necessary for air defense and the army from what is currently in a high state of readiness - with the goal of ensuring the survival of Russian infrastructure (including aviation design bureaus and factories) and the provision of the army.
            1. 0
              April 15 2026 12: 28
              Quote: DO
              However, for today's everyday life, it would be advisable to postpone long-term developments until peacetime.

              These developments began back in the 70s. They needed to be developed into something functional, but all this wasted resources, and even what existed was forgotten and discarded as unnecessary. You underestimate the importance of logistics. It's no less important for both the economy and defense than missiles or shells. It requires at least as much investment as projects like the Armata, and on a regular basis.
              1. DO
                +1
                April 15 2026 12: 56
                These developments began back in the 70s. They needed to be developed into something workable.

                Perhaps. But here it's necessary to have comprehensive information, engage experts, and evaluate the feasibility, implementation timeframe, and required resources for each of the projects you mentioned.
                1. +1
                  April 15 2026 14: 00
                  Quote: DO
                  But here it is necessary to have comprehensive information, involve experts, and evaluate the feasibility, implementation timeframes and necessary resources for each

                  Take the An-2, for example. It has an La-5 engine. Yes, it's a very versatile aircraft, but by the 80s, regular buses were already competing with it in terms of speed, and its fuel efficiency and pilot requirements weren't up to par. It was clear it needed to be replaced with something else, and... there were the Yak-40, Yak-42, and the L-ka, but none of this changed anything; it merely simplified the situation somewhat, as the An-2 remained unchanged.
                  The feasibility is 100%, the implementation period for a small piston aircraft in the USSR is, well, five years maximum, including a new engine and production setup, resources for implementation are plentiful, and... where's the An-2's replacement? They waited until almost the entire aircraft fleet was out of service, the network of small airfields was destroyed, and then they started building dead-end projects that will never pay off. They had half a century to create a replacement, but nothing was accomplished. And that's the case with most aspects of the logistics sector.
              2. DO
                0
                April 15 2026 14: 39
                Quote: multicaat
                You underestimate the importance of logistics. It's no less important for both the economy and defense than missiles or shells.

                1. About logistics in the SVO zone
                With the Ukrainian Armed Forces' FPV and AI drones now operating at depths of up to 50 km, traditional logistics using driverless ground vehicles and manual transport are extremely difficult and entail unacceptably high personnel losses. Therefore, the rapid development of new unmanned logistics systems adequate to the evolving mission is essentially a question of the army's combat readiness.
                According to media reports, multi-rotor UAVs (such as octocopters) are the most common aerial transport drones (which we're discussing, excluding ground, surface, and underwater drones). However, the operational depth of enemy drones is constantly increasing, and the range of multi-rotor transport drones with electric motors is limited by battery power and the need to maintain altitude. Therefore, it may be worth allocating additional resources to the development and production of aircraft-based transport drones, whose wing lift provides greater flight efficiency and which can achieve higher speeds.
                Perhaps, among other solutions, the aforementioned cargo tailsitter would be suitable here, which can land on the tail for unloading anywhere, for example in a trench, or fly under a high-hanging net.
                2. Logistics in the deep rear in off-road conditions
                2a. Classic manned cargo helicopters. Fundamental innovations are unlikely to be urgently needed here today, but a sufficient number of these helicopters is essential. This can be achieved both by extending the service life of existing helicopters at repair plants and by producing new ones.
                2b. A pressing problem for the An-2, for which there are many shortened runways in the Russian hinterland. Unfortunately, the Baikal project appears to have been systematically focused on embezzling funds rather than solving the problem of replacing the An-2. As a result, the Baikal monoplane from UZGA is not suitable for shortened runways.
                There are two ways to reduce the severity of the problem:
                - one of the articles suggests a completely obvious and sensible solution to revive the hundreds of An-2s in storage by solving the engine problem and possibly replacing the removable skin with a skin made of a modern lightweight material;
                - to finally bring Baikal from UZGA to the point of being able to take off from shortened runways - either by using a biplane glider or another alternative, the well-known monoplane design with 8 electric motors with propellers that create additional air pressure on the lower part of the monoplane wings, and an onboard electric generator + an emergency landing battery (or two redundant generators).
                1. 0
                  April 15 2026 14: 50
                  Quote: DO
                  2a. Classic manned cargo helicopters. Fundamental innovations are unlikely to be urgently needed here today, but a sufficient number of these helicopters is necessary.

                  The problem is different. We practically don't have a light helicopter. Actually, we don't have any, except for the Mi-8, and it doesn't meet all our needs.
                  Moreover, if the helicopter is simply used for transporting cargo using remote control, it would become much simpler and more efficient, but there are absolutely no such developments.
                  This eliminates the risk to pilots, and the pilots themselves require less equipment, as they can safely fly from home, wearing slippers and keeping their cat on their lap. And this is a radical change, the need for which you don't see.
                  Quote: DO
                  As a result, the Baikal monoplane from UZGA is not suitable for shortened runways.

                  The problem here is somewhat more complex: we need an aircraft that can change its shape to have similar takeoff and landing characteristics to the An-2 and also fly faster, preferably twice as fast. Replacing the engine is definitely not enough. Moreover, the traditional solution of changing the wing geometry is highly unlikely to work.
                  1. DO
                    0
                    April 15 2026 15: 11
                    Quote: multicaat
                    We practically don't have a light helicopter. Actually, we don't have any, except for the Mi-8, and it just doesn't cover all our needs.

                    What specific needs are not met by the Mi-8?

                    Quote: multicaat
                    If you just transport cargo using remote control, the helicopter becomes much simpler and more efficient

                    At the current level of information technology, a trained, live helicopter pilot can perform his duties better than a computer program and a communication system that is not very reliable in the wilderness.
                    Yes, in a bright and peaceful future, the developments you mentioned would be appropriate. But in today's force majeure circumstances, they are not absolutely necessary.
                  2. DO
                    0
                    April 15 2026 15: 21
                    Quote: multicaat
                    We need an aircraft that changes its shape to have similar takeoff and landing characteristics to the An-2 and at the same time fly faster, preferably twice as fast.

                    A strict requirement for the aircraft to replace the An-2, due to the existing infrastructure in the outback, is takeoff and landing on a shortened unpaved runway.
                    The speed must be no lower than that of the An-2. For a slightly higher speed, a more powerful engine would be sufficient.

                    Quote: multicaat
                    the traditional solution of changing the wing geometry is most likely not suitable

                    The idea of ​​"changing wing geometry" during flight seems to apply to supersonic aircraft. Or what are you talking about?
                    1. 0
                      April 15 2026 15: 36
                      Quote: DO
                      The speed must be no lower than that of the An-2. For a slightly higher speed, a more powerful engine would be sufficient.

                      It's not enough. It will increase by 25-30 km/h at best. Serious engineering solutions are needed to improve efficiency. A biplane is just that. It has its drawbacks. And even a monoplane or a partially cut-down biplane isn't everything – the wing profile is wide, and drag is significant.
                      You can't just slap together something significantly better; serious work is needed. And speed is essential, because in a headwind, the An-2 could fall behind the donkey.
                      Quote: DO
                      It seems to relate to supersonic aircraft.

                      The wing was moved to improve takeoff performance, not necessarily for supersonic flight. Ultimate aircraft like the MiG-23 shouldn't be considered the only way.
                      We are talking more about a comprehensive solution, including wing mechanization, flap shape, perhaps partial mobility and other solutions.
                      The problem is that a solution is needed and the solution is simple and inexpensive.
                      So it's not that simple. Any student with a relevant background can build you a scaled-up Cessna and shout that all you need is an engine, but that's completely insufficient for a successful aircraft. I'd like to refer you to the Yak-40 project so you understand how challenging this task is. Yakovlev even almost succeeded.
                      1. DO
                        0
                        April 15 2026 15: 56
                        Quote: multicaat
                        You can't just make something significantly better on your knee; serious work is needed.

                        A systemic challenge that remains unresolved today is the development of an aircraft to replace the An-2. Therefore, if an aircraft capable of operating from shortened unpaved runways, 25-30 km/h faster than the An-2, is developed and put into mass production, customers will be overjoyed.

                        Quote: multicaat
                        analogue of an enlarged Cessna

                        It was reported that the Cessna was the prototype for the Baikal. The result was that the Baikal failed to operate from shortened runways.

                        https://hightech.plus/2024/10/04/electra-pokazala-prototip-gibridnogo-samoleta-s-korotkim-vzletom-pentagonu :
                        Electra demonstrated to the U.S. military the capabilities of its hybrid-electric Ultra Short aircraft, designed for takeoff and landing in areas without airfields. This eSTOL aircraft can operate in conditions typically requiring helicopters, while reducing costs by 70%, minimizing noise, and increasing efficiency. Powered by a hybrid propulsion system with eight electric motors, the Ultra Short can take off from any level area measuring 91 by 30 meters and reach a cruising speed of 322 km/h. With a range of up to 805 km, the aircraft can perform military missions with minimal infrastructure.
                      2. 0
                        April 15 2026 16: 02
                        There is also a requirement for it to be inexpensive and easy to operate.
                        I'm not sure that an American matches this.
                      3. DO
                        0
                        April 15 2026 16: 13
                        Quote: multicaat
                        There is also a requirement for inexpensive

                        Therefore, the reasonable solution is obvious: modernization of the An-2s in storage, while quickly upgrading the Baikal to a biplane.
                        And Electra's beautiful solution is for a bright future for Russian small aviation.
                      4. 0
                        April 15 2026 16: 31
                        There is no such solution, we tried three times - all three failed.
                      5. DO
                        0
                        April 15 2026 18: 06
                        Multicaat, what solution did you try – upgrading the An-2s in storage, or a monoplane + 8 electric engines?
                      6. 0
                        April 16 2026 08: 54
                        There were 3 attempts to solve everything with the engine and a small reconfiguration of the wing.
                        There was also an attempt to make a composite wing and part of the body and hang fans.
                        The problem is that a versatile aircraft requires a lot. Achieving one characteristic at the expense of another, equally important, won't solve the problem.
                        And so, while the real solution will be simple, arriving at it will be very challenging. The first thing to decide is the required payload and aerodynamics. Not even the engine.
                        Part of the An-2's problem is that carrying 10 passengers is a poor investment. What's needed is a payload capacity of at least 16+, or a radical increase in speed, which some modern aircraft have already achieved—up to 600 km/h, albeit at the expense of limited use.
                        This approach is not suitable for us and we need solutions at the conceptual level.
                        Post-war solutions DO NOT WORK today.
                        Another way is to make the machine as easy to use as possible.
                        Like American small aircraft. A car engine running on regular gasoline, technical solutions similar to those used in the automotive industry, a simple airframe, etc. This simplification significantly reduces the cost-effectiveness and payload requirements, making the aircraft affordable, but...
                        this is where our laws and realities come into play -
                        The high cost of training and the complete lack of guarantee that you will be allowed to fly at least once, especially at the right time, along with numerous flight restrictions.
                        In such conditions, purchasing an aircraft becomes very risky.
                        That's why we have a real problem with small aircraft.
                      7. DO
                        0
                        April 16 2026 11: 53
                        Quote: multicaat
                        Part of the problem with the An-2 is that transporting 10 passengers is a poor investment.

                        In sparsely populated areas, everything—transport, trade, and communications—is unprofitable, meaning they rely on state subsidies. But if the state listens to today's "effective managers"—optimizers—and continues to essentially pursue a policy of resettling people from sparsely populated areas to cities, other countries will, one way or another, populate the empty lands, whether through migration or war. After all, populating empty lands has historically been one of the fundamental functions of states. One might object: where's the money for the subsidies? But if we easily give the West over $300 billion, then allow the same amount to leave Russia, and continue this policy, the Russian state is doomed. For example, the state that built the world's number one economy, China, isn't shy about publicly executing its corrupt thieves in stadiums.
                        Returning to the An-2, Yandex says:
                        Quote: Yandex AI
                        It is known that by the 1990s this aircraft had carried more than 370 million passengers.


                        Quote: multicaat
                        We need a carrying capacity of at least 16+ people or a radical increase in speed, which some modern vehicles have already achieved – up to 600 km/h.

                        There's no harm in wanting. But first, we need to, damn it, finally ACCOMPLISH the task of organizing production of an aircraft to REPLACE the An-2.

                        Quote: multicaat
                        Car engine on regular gasoline

                        Yes, this is a problem. Internal combustion engine (ICE) production for the An-2 and its equivalent needs to be reorganized. Currently, the An-2 is being re-engined with a turboprop engine. However, for remote areas, this solution is necessary and should be temporary. A turboprop engine can only be repaired at the factory, requires aviation kerosene, and the throttle response time of such an engine (accelerator response time), which is important on short runways, leaves much to be desired. ICE engines, on the other hand, can be repaired by an engine mechanic on-site if inexpensive spare parts are available, fuel is readily available from the existing gas station network, and pilots are satisfied with the throttle response.
                      8. 0
                        April 16 2026 12: 21
                        Quote: DO
                        In areas with low population density, everything is unprofitable, that is, it relies on government subsidies - transport, trade, communications

                        Not quite so. Passenger transportation can be somehow tied to a circular flight route with short stops, and this is already completely profitable. The only problem is with those points that are completely isolated and far away, as is the case in the northern Leningrad Region or the Far East. When there is absolutely nothing for 150 km around a village—no roads, no other points.
                        But in this case, some mechanisms of state support should already be in place,
                        those. the problem is not hopeless.
                        There's another problem here. Airplanes are forced to compete with scheduled buses, which carry up to 40 passengers at speeds of around 90-100 km/h. They need some advantages over these vehicles, but there's essentially only one – speed. And that's a crucial factor. True, traffic jams are a bit of a help here. In Japan, they still operate a special model of the Boeing 747, equipped as a bus, which flies between two nearby cities and carries a gigantic number of passengers at twice the speed of the Senkansen. That's how they compete.
                        But let's get back to buses and the An-2. If the headwind is at 50 km/h, which happens regularly, then the An-2's speed is practically equal to that of the bus.
                        For it to have a real advantage, it needs a cruising speed of at least 220-240 km/h, or better yet, 260. That's when it'll be effective. And that's difficult to achieve at low altitudes. Another important aspect for such an aircraft is fuel efficiency at frequent altitude changes, since it needs to take off and land regularly. In this regard, the biplane configuration is good, but it conflicts with the goal of speed.
                      9. DO
                        0
                        April 16 2026 13: 07
                        Quote: multicaat
                        The plane is forced to compete with scheduled buses, which carry 40 passengers at speeds of around 90-100 km/h.

                        If there are roads these buses can drive on. And even if there are, few of them are paved. And on sand and gravel roads, the surface of which hasn't been graded in a long time and which are like washboard after rain, you won't be able to drive at 100 or 90 km/h. And at 60-80 km/h, you'll quickly ruin the suspension.
                        And 40 people will only fit on a bus in fairly large settlements with a population of around 10. But there are plenty of villages where the entire population is 40.
                      10. DO
                        0
                        April 16 2026 14: 17
                        Quote: multicaat
                        The plane is forced to compete with scheduled buses, which carry 40 passengers at speeds of about 90-100 km/h.

                        If there are roads these buses can drive on, then not many of them are paved. Sand and gravel road surfaces, if not graded for a long time, become wavy and washboard-like in rain. You can't drive at 90-100 km/h on such a road. Even at 40-70 km/h, the suspension can wear out pretty quickly.
                        A bus in a large town with a population of around 2 isn't always big enough to carry 40 passengers. But the outback is full of villages with only around 40 people.
  25. -1
    April 13 2026 19: 19
    Take the Su-34. By eliminating the armored cockpit, expand the crew compartment to accommodate two more operators in ejection seats. Install a tail-mounted, all-aspect "delta" radar and arm it with as many SAMs as possible. There's no other aircraft on the base that can handle the weight of the radar and crew, have the required range, and be able to defend itself, at least in a long-range missile engagement.
    1. 0
      April 16 2026 18: 38
      Maybe it would be better to buy a couple of good business jets?!
      1. 0
        April 16 2026 22: 40
        no one will sell either the planes or the spare parts
  26. 0
    April 14 2026 16: 04
    I would add that there is simply no more effective alternative to AWACS aircraft for defense against cruise missiles. At sea, a radio reconnaissance aircraft is even more valuable.
  27. 0
    April 15 2026 10: 58
    Unfortunately, aviation has no future in Russia. The country's future is already in question.
  28. -2
    April 15 2026 23: 59
    It's clear that long-range anti-aircraft missiles pose a significant threat and, to a certain extent, limit the capabilities of AWACS aircraft—after all, that's what they were designed for. This is precisely why we need to move away from the "Beloslonism" concept—the monstrous size and cost of the A-100 Premier.
    Toward moderately sized and costly aircraft in this class. AWACS aircraft should become as expendable for the Aerospace Forces as operational-tactical aircraft, and their use should be as routine and natural as it is in US naval aviation.

    For radars, air-to-air missiles, and surface-to-air missiles, the "monstrous" or "moderate" size of an AWACS aircraft is irrelevant. The problem is that a functioning AWACS and a non-functioning AWACS represent a qualitative, not quantitative, difference in air operations, which cannot be compensated for during an air operation.
  29. 0
    April 16 2026 03: 57
    The author gave a detailed explanation for why we can't do without AWACS. But he avoided (or perhaps I missed) the question posed in his opponent's article: how can we use AWACS if there's such a high risk of losing it? As I understand it, this is precisely the case here: we seemingly need AWACS, but we've already lost two aircraft. And as a result, we still manage without AWACS, even though we still have them.
    That is, before using it, you need to think about how to increase its chances of survival.
    At the same time, if we consider the need for AWACS in relation to the air defense system, I have serious doubts. In fact, enemy aircraft don't really fly much – they're either in the far west of Ukraine or briefly hover near the LCS (in this regard, it's interesting how they launch glide bombs at us). Therefore, shooting them down once detected is unrealistic. A long-range aircraft or helicopter will have time to escape to Poland. And an aircraft or helicopter near the LCS will have time to land.
    So what's the point of using an AWACS aircraft then? There's only the risk of losing it.
    There were suggestions to use AWACS deep in the rear to detect UAV attacks.
    However, it's still unclear how AWACS works against low-observable, low-flying targets. Secondly, UAVs are already being equipped with man-portable air defense systems, so there's still a risk of losing the aircraft.
    1. 0
      April 16 2026 18: 05
      See my post above: the Americans use a combination of several F-22s as mini-AWACS, providing information about the enemy from HUNDREDS of kilometers away to their big AWACS, which carries out overall coordination and control of one hundred and fifty aircraft in the theater of operations. They have been doing this for almost 20 years. Certainly in the recent wars with Iran.
      1. 0
        April 16 2026 18: 12
        Michael1950, there's an article about AWACS on this site. Progress is ongoing, and now there are fewer and fewer safe places for AWACS. We've lost two aircraft, both the Americans and the Pakistanis. Their missiles now have a range of 400 km. And AWACS are slow-moving, easy targets.
        1. 0
          April 16 2026 18: 35
          "The element of war is danger" - V.I. Ulyanov (Lenin). wink There's no alternative. Therefore, the Americans have developed and will continue to refine the following combination: The F-22, as a mini-AWACS, provides information to its larger AWACS, located several hundred kilometers away and protected by its fighters. - Try to knock him down?
          1. 0
            April 16 2026 21: 04
            Michael1950, that's just your personal opinion. The R-37 air-to-air missile has a range of up to 300 km. The S-400 surface-to-air missile has a range of up to 400 km. No fighter escort will save you if something happens. It was an S-400 that shot down a Pakistani AWACS hundreds of kilometers from the Indian border. And one of our A-50s shot down a very old Soviet S-200 system—the Ukrainians were able to increase the range of its missiles.
            1. -1
              April 17 2026 01: 26
              This opinion, of course, is not my personal one – AWACS are developing all over the world, although now, due to the miniaturization of equipment and the emergence of large AESAs, instead of the previous "mushroom" antennas are placed on the sides of the aircraft, or on top along the fuselage...
              1. -1
                April 17 2026 02: 03
                Michael1950, they were developing. And now there's a pause due to the advent of long-range missiles.
                And they don't have hypersonic ones yet.
                If they come up with a defense, the topic will move forward. If they don't, it won't move forward.
                One idea is unmanned systems with AI and data transmission to a central control center in quasi-real time. This is also a lot of money, but firstly, the target is smaller, and secondly, it's unmanned.
                Judging by everything, you're a theorist. But in practice, we see that the A-50 hasn't been in use for a couple of years now. By the way, there was a discussion about our base in Syria. I looked at recent satellite photos – our old quasi-AWACS Il-20 is there. Pardon me, if it's not a secret, what were you doing before? I've had some experience with the SKKP topic. My nickname might have been 1962.
            2. -1
              April 17 2026 08: 58
              So, do not fly your AWACS aircraft close to an area where there are still undestroyed enemy long-range air defense systems. "And you will be happy"...
              1. 0
                April 17 2026 18: 26
                Michael1950, that is, don't let it down at 400 km. Then why the AWACS? What will it see from there?
                1. 0
                  April 17 2026 21: 04
                  I've already reiterated this point several times in this thread: the Americans came up with the idea about 20 years ago of using the F-22 as a remote AWACS eye, projected several hundred kilometers out and raised to the AWACS's ceiling, 19.8 kilometers. Everything the F-22's radar sees is transmitted directly to the AWACS operators, who are located remotely and safely.
                  Moreover, there may be several F-22s.
                  1. 0
                    April 18 2026 02: 48
                    Michael1950, so why the AWACS then? Let the F-22s relay the missiles directly to the ground control center.
                    That's how our Su-57 and Su-35 are equipped with powerful active phased array antennas.
                    You just can't get over the idea that hundreds of kilometers away, especially at high altitude, are no protection against modern air defense and air-to-air missiles. The Indians shot down a Pakistani AWACS with an S-400 at a distance of at least 300 kilometers. The only option is to descend to minimum altitude, using the Earth's curvature as cover. But then there's no point in having an AWACS, and it won't protect you from a high-altitude fighter anyway. An R-37 air-to-air missile shot down Ukrainian aircraft at a distance of 270 kilometers, I think.
                  2. +2
                    April 18 2026 13: 47
                    Quote: Michael1950
                    I've already repeated this several times in this thread: the Americans came up with the idea about 20 years ago of using the F-22 as a remote eye for AWACS.

                    Frankly, it's a very dubious innovation. So much so that I'm ready to doubt its reality. However, the US Navy certainly doesn't suffer from such a thing.
  30. 0
    April 16 2026 17: 51
    Quote: Hexenmeister
    Common sense dictates that devices with the same purpose, but significantly different in size and yet built at the same level of scientific and technological progress, should differ significantly in their capabilities. Detection characteristics are determined by the ratio of signal energy to noise spectral density. Signal energy, of course, depends on power, but it also depends on many other parameters.

    There is a "school" formula for radar detection range:
    https://www.radartutorial.eu/01.basics/rb13.ru.html
    Therefore, it should not be surprising that when the power is "equalized" to the same level, the signal energy of a fighter's radar will be an order of magnitude, or even two, greater than that of an AWACS aircraft's radar, with corresponding consequences in the detection range.

    - This is NOT TRUE. "This cannot be, because it can never be."
    1. +1
      April 17 2026 08: 40
      "school" formula...This is NOT TRUE
      It's true! Start by studying a proper textbook, "Theoretical Foundations of Radar," and only cite any "school formulas" when they actually work.
      1. 0
        April 17 2026 08: 54
        They work everywhere, I just gave you a page from the textbook... lol Would you mind opening it?
        1. 0
          April 17 2026 09: 59
          They work everywhere
          Once you understand that the same radar, with the same power, can emit signals with different energies, and therefore have different detection ranges for different signals, then we'll talk. According to your formula, nothing should change.
          1. 0
            April 17 2026 10: 54
            According to "my" formula it is determined MAXIMUM Detection range. This is what's included in all the performance specifications of all radars/airborne systems. The fact that an AESA radar/airborne system can vary the power of its probing pulses by several orders of magnitude, the number of pulses in a packet, and so on—that's a whole other story.
            1. +1
              April 17 2026 12: 43
              Again about my own... We are talking about energy, read carefully, depending on the signal, when constant power, its energy changes, which changes the detection range, and this was done a long time ago, before there were any AHFs. And what's this "maximum range"? There's no such concept in radar! Modern radar is a science of signals, not AHFs, and stop citing internet nonsense as arguments, which is more like material to broaden accountants' horizons than the theoretical foundations of radar!
              1. 0
                April 17 2026 13: 08
                There in the formula "max" means "maximum" range...
                where:
                P is the transmitter power;
                Gt is the antenna gain during radiation;
                Gr — antenna gain during reception;
                λ is the wavelength;
                σ is the effective scattering area of ​​the target;
                P_r.min — minimum receiver sensitivity.
                1. +1
                  April 17 2026 13: 33
                  Now, how does this work in reality? The detection range in the technical specifications is specified as follows: Detection of a target with S radar cross-section at range D with probability X and false alarm probability Y. This formula includes the radar cross-section; change the detection probability, and the range at which it occurs will also change; change the false alarm probability, and detection with the desired probability will occur at a different range. And this is all in addition to the signal energy. There are also non-trivial methods for increasing the detection range, and without changing any of the parameters in this formula, any detection range can be obtained. The question of whether this will be feasible is a separate one.
                  1. 0
                    April 17 2026 13: 45
                    - The detection range of Soviet/Russian radars was standard, 0.5 and hasn't changed in the last half century. The detection range of American radars/airborne missiles is also standard, 0.86 and also, as far as I know, does not change.
                    What are you talking about, sir? There are regulations, they're laid down in the documents. Where are you planning to change anything?
                  2. 0
                    April 17 2026 13: 52
                    The probability of detection by Soviet/Russian radars/airborne radars is 0.5 and has not changed for half a century. The probability of detection by American radars/airborne radars is 0.86 and, as far as I know, it hasn't changed either.
                    So what are you talking about?!
                    1. 0
                      April 17 2026 14: 04
                      You can continue to calculate in the same way, although there is no data on the probability of a false alarm, but how will you, using your formula, reduce everything to a single probability of detection and the probability of a false alarm in order to obtain an “accurate” comparison by range?
                      1. 0
                        April 17 2026 14: 10
                        All required parameters are imprinted "into the hardware" of a specific radar, and each radar/on-board radar has absolutely clear data in its passport - At what range does it detect a standard target with an RCS of 1 square meter?The APG-77 has its own data, the APG-81 has its own, the Bars has its own, and the Irbis has its own...
                        There is nothing to argue about here at all, I don’t understand – what is unclear to you?
                      2. +1
                        April 17 2026 14: 30
                        Yes, I understand everything, your formula means nothing, and discussing the numbers from the internet about detection range makes no sense, I don’t trust them both in terms of range and type of target, especially considering how the RCS of Soviet aircraft has changed over time on the internet, how it has grown several times, but there’s nothing to be done about it, advertising is the engine of something there.
                      3. -1
                        April 17 2026 15: 12
                        The formula is not mine, it’s from a textbook – which you’ve probably never even seen from the cover – hence the endless surprise... laughing
                      4. -1
                        April 17 2026 15: 20
                        As for the "RCS of Soviet aircraft", during my service in the ranks of the armed forces of the USSR/Russia (1969-1995), it was like this:
                        MiG-21 - 5 sq. m. - frontal
                        Su-27 - 10 sq. m. - frontal
                        Tu-22M3 - 17 sq m - frontal
                        Tu-22M3 - 35 sq m - at an angle of 3/4 with PPS
                        Tu-22M3 - 50 sq m - at a 4/4 angle.
                        This is the official data for the Soviet Air Force..
                        ....................
                        What data do you have?
                      5. 0
                        April 17 2026 16: 10
                        during my service in the ranks of the armed forces of the USSR

                        Everything is clear with you, there is no knowledge, I don’t know what the “control” target was during the radar tests, and what its RCS was either.
                      6. 0
                        April 17 2026 16: 37
                        - Be healthy and happy! laughing wassat lol
                      7. +1
                        April 17 2026 16: 41
                        during my service in the ranks of the armed forces of the USSR
                        You might as well tell me that you taught cadets at some military academy, and now you're a retired soldier living in Israel. Could this really be the same Voodoo? Stay healthy! smile
                      8. -3
                        April 17 2026 16: 47
                        - Thank you, my dear! You've taught me something new about radar systems, which I taught to cadets for seven years... lol love
                      9. -1
                        April 19 2026 15: 41
                        Quote: Hexenmeister
                        а сейчас Вы военный пенсионер, живете в Израиле, неужели тот самый Вуду?

                        Именно он самый. Хорошо, что Вы это заметили.
  31. -1
    April 16 2026 18: 01
    Quote: yuriy55
    There's just one thing I can't understand: why hasn't the desire for "gigantism" disappeared during the construction of Russian AWACS aircraft?

    It's elementary, Watson! Because the AWACS aircraft's radar could see long away, and even small-sized targets, it has to be BIG! And therefore HEAVY!
  32. +1
    April 17 2026 08: 33
    Quote: Igor M.
    Michael1950, they were developing. And now there's a pause due to the advent of long-range missiles.

    - There's no pause. Try monitoring the print more closely. The equipment is constantly being improved.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_early_warning_and_control
    And they don't have hypersonic ones yet.

    At the instigation of some illiterate journalist, all ballistic missiles that reach speeds exceeding Mach 5 at some point in their trajectory have been labeled "hypersonic." This is something any ballistic missile, starting with the V-2 from 90 years ago, could do! In fact, only aircraft that reach speeds exceeding Mach 5 using a hypersonic ramjet are considered hypersonic:
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D1%80%D1%8F%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BD%D0%BE-%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramjet
    If they come up with a defense, the topic will move forward. If they don't, it won't move forward.

    AWACS aircraft are developing and improving. It's just not as noticeable to the average person on the outside. This is a qualitative improvement...
    One idea is unmanned systems with AI and data transmission to a central control center in quasi-real time. This is also a lot of money, but firstly, the target is smaller, and secondly, it's unmanned.

    This is a matter for the distant future.
    Judging by everything, you are a theorist.

    Of course! I'm sitting on the couch, theorizing... And you?!
    But in practice, we see that the A-50 has been out of use for a couple of years now.

    And how should the General Staff of the Russian Army rejoice at this?! They should cry and cry, cry and cry!
    By the way, there was an argument here about our base in Syria.

    What's there to argue about?
    I looked at the latest satellite photos - our old quasi-AWACS Il-20 is there.

    - They'll hand it over for scrap...
    Excuse me, if it’s not a secret, what did you do before?

    - 15 years as a pilot at the Chelyabinsk Higher Military Aviation School (last flight position: flight commander. 1st class, 3500 flight hours), The last 7 years of service - teacher in the department of aviation radio-electronic means of aircraft navigation and bombing at the same schoolAfter 30 years of theorizing on the couch, but I try very hard to keep up to date with all aviation matters... Therefore, "I am responsible for my words..." laughing
    I've had some interactions with the SKKP topic. My nickname could have been 1962.

    - This is wonderful! wink
  33. 0
    April 17 2026 09: 03
    Quote: Igor M.
    The author gave a detailed explanation for why we can't do without AWACS. But he avoided (or perhaps I missed) the question posed in his opponent's article: how can we use AWACS if there's such a high risk of losing it? As I understand it, this is precisely the case here: we seemingly need AWACS, but we've already lost two aircraft. And as a result, we still manage without AWACS, even though we still have them.
    That is, before using it, you need to think about how to increase its chances of survival.

    How the Americans did it 20 years ago: a bundle F-22 — AWACSThe F-22 is the AWACS's "flying eye," positioned hundreds of kilometers up. At a safe distance, the AWACS collects information from its F-22s, analyzes it, and directs up to 150 of its aircraft to the appropriate locations. EVERYONE IS HAPPY, and the AWACS is safe and sound.
  34. 0
    April 17 2026 10: 48
    Quote: don_Reba
    Basically, to compare
    The detection ranges of AN/APY-1 versus AN/APG-77 can be either 1 or 100 (overkill, of course), the main thing is that they are the same.

    - It's unclear what exactly is the same here. The APG-77's detection range for a target with an RCS of 1 square meter is ~230 km, while the latest upgraded APY-1 has a detection range of ~415 km. They are completely different.
    AN/APY-1 will always win.

    - That's how it should be.
    What those who dream of installing airborne radars (Irbis or 77s) on Zerzhbandels or Orions forget, and what the manufacturer modestly keeps silent about, is the detection range of these airborne radars on oncoming and catch-up courses.
    And there the difference is almost an order of magnitude.

    - An order of magnitude difference?! Where did you get that from?? That's just NONSENSE.
    Do you understand what I mean?

    - No, I don’t understand.
    But AN/APY-1 is all around the drum (almost).

    - What is the fundamental difference between APY-1 and APG-77? laughing What's there - "almost an order of magnitude", but here "it doesn't matter"?! wink This is fantasy...
  35. 0
    April 17 2026 12: 22
    Quote: DO
    Vbr, for example, a commentator from the SVO zone posted the text of the communications of an Su-34 crew on a combat mission to drop glide bombs. This Su-34, using the cues of the Su-35 pilot covering it, managed to dodge four missiles during the mission. The guys certainly took an incredible risk, but they proved that your assertion, "No aircraft can 'dodge' a surface-to-air missile or an air-to-air missile," is incorrect.

    It's appropriate to recall the joke about the old man at the sex therapist's office. The old man complained that he had problems of his own, but his neighbor, a man his age, said he could have sex three times a night! The sex therapist said: "Well, you say the same thing!" lol
  36. +1
    April 17 2026 15: 01
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    The missile's microprocessor, receiving information from its onboard radar at each subsequent moment in time, recalculates this meeting point again and again.

    I'm flying straight ahead—for the missile, which is following me directly, I'm a dot; there's no angular displacement; it's following me. I begin to gain altitude at a rate of 5 meters per second—the missile, with a flight time of 10 seconds, should retarget at a point 50 meters above my current position. The next second, I turn further and begin descending at a rate of 5 meters per second; the missile should change direction from a point 50 meters above me to 50 meters below me... Basically, to keep up with my maneuvers, the missile needs to maneuver much more energetically than I do, and not just mimic my maneuvers. That's where they confuse it.

    There is a good way:
    The half-rectification method (HRM) is a method of guiding surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) whereby the missile is directed not precisely to the target's current position, but to an intermediate point, halving the angular velocity of the line of sight. This method is an intermediate between the "three-point" method and proportional approach, providing a smoother flight than the "three-point" method and high efficiency during target maneuvers.

    Main characteristics of the method:
    Operating principle: The missile is held not on the radar-target line itself, but on a line whose position is adjusted taking into account the lead (half of the target's angular velocity).
    Advantages over the “three points”: Less curvature of the missile’s flight trajectory, lower required overloads, higher probability of hitting maneuvering targets.
    Application: Used in early air defense systems (e.g. S-75, S-25) to increase the effectiveness of combating aircraft.
    Difference from a run: The "half-straightening" method provides a more effective interception compared to direct guidance to the target, where the missile often experiences stalls during maneuvers.

    This method made it possible to guide the missile even in the presence of interference, when the radar could not clearly determine the position of the target, but only its angular parameters.
    1. +1
      April 17 2026 15: 07
      The reason you won't be able to break away from the rocket is because you won't be able to INSTANTLY change the vertical speed of the plane - up or down. During the time it takes you to transition the plane from a climb to a descent, the rocket has time to get closer to you.And so it goes, every time you try to change the trajectory.
  37. +2
    April 18 2026 07: 54
    Quote: Igor M.
    Michael1950, so why the AWACS then? Let the F-22s relay the missiles directly to the ground control center.

    The ground control center can be a) very far from the action; b) AWACS is designed from the ground up to control combat aviation operations in the theater of operations. It simply gains "eyes" hundreds of kilometers away, elevated to a height where it can see everything crawling on the enemy side, right down to jeeps on the ground. In other words, the AWACS's functions haven't changed at all; they're still there, "detection and control," it just gains remote "eyes." This has dramatically increased the combat effectiveness of the US Air Force—and has for nearly two decades. In this 40-day war with Iran, when HUNDREDS of aircraft—both Israeli and American—were in the air simultaneously, one AWACS would not have been enough to control this entire armada over a theater of operations covering an area of ​​1.65 million square kilometers, to prevent convergence and collisions, to separate aircraft by altitude and corridors (even temporary ones), to designate targets, to distribute targets to newly identified targets—these are very important control functions, and they were performed by American AWACS and Israeli Eitams:
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eitam
    That's how our Su-57 and Su-35 are equipped with powerful active phased array antennas.

    - They equip them, of course. Use American experience.
    You just can't come to terms with the idea that hundreds of kilometers of distance, especially at high altitude, is no protection from modern air defense and air-to-air missiles.

    "I don't need to 'resign myself to' anything. I'm looking at reality—last year's 12-day war, which the US only joined on the last day, and the current war, which has lasted almost 40 days. Iran had the S-300, the S-400, and their Chinese counterparts—they were so lauded in the press—and the vast majority were destroyed. Then the remaining air defenses finished off the F-35s with precision bombs gliding 75-110 km away, and then fourth-generation aircraft, the F-16s and F-15s, flew there as they pleased. In recent days, the Americans even launched B-52s there, not just B-1Bs... So instead of fairy tales, carefully analyze these two wars."
    One American F-15E was shot down and one A-10C was somehow lost, most likely to a MANPADS. Over thousands and thousands of sorties against targets across Iran's vast territory. So, life refutes your hypothesis.
    Here's an analysis of last year's 12-day war:
    https://oleggranovsky.livejournal.com/1549322.html
    This is according to the current:
    https://www.interfax.ru/world/1081476
    The Indians shot down a Pakistani AWACS with the help of an S-400, at least 300 km away.

    - Don't look at the Papuan wars, look at how developed countries fight - and take them as examples, not India and Pakistan.
    The only option here is to descend to a minimum altitude, taking cover behind the curvature of the Earth's surface.

    - Once again: there was the Israeli-Iranian war last year, there was (and will probably continue) the Israeli-American-Iranian war, there are already a lot of statistics on them - Analyze them and draw conclusions based on them. — hide behind the ground, or under the ground? Or should we not hide behind the ground, but rather act somehow differently?
    But then what's the point of AWACS, and it still won't protect you from a high-altitude fighter. The R-37 air-to-air missile shot down Ukrainian aircraft from 270 km away, I think.

    - Again - twenty-five! How many Israeli and American aircraft were shot down by Iranian high-altitude fighters with R-37 missiles? ZERO.
  38. 0
    April 18 2026 15: 02
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    I've already repeated this several times in this thread: the Americans came up with the idea about 20 years ago of using the F-22 as a remote eye for AWACS.

    Frankly, this is a very dubious innovation. So much so that I'm ready to doubt its reality.
    However, the US Navy certainly doesn't suffer from this.
    - ?? But why the sudden doubts? I think everything is perfectly fine and wonderful, and completely natural. What exactly are you doubting? If one girl is video-chatting with another on a cell phone, or WhatsApp, thousands of kilometers away, even on the other side of the world, why can't an F-22 transmit images from its radar to its AWACS?! What grounds could there be for skepticism?
    However, the US Navy certainly doesn't suffer from this.

    - Doesn't suffer from what?
    1. +1
      April 18 2026 21: 43
      Quote: Michael1950
      - ?? But why the sudden doubts?

      Because the scheme seems completely pointless. The F-22 radar is much weaker than the AWACS, and using it in such a role is, to say the least, odd.
      Quote: Michael1950
      Why can't the F-22 transmit images from its radar to its AWACS?!

      Of course it can, who can argue with that?
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Doesn't suffer from what?

      using fighters for AWACS
  39. 0
    April 19 2026 02: 38
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    - ?? But why the sudden doubts?

    Because the scheme seems completely pointless. The F-22 radar is much weaker than the AWACS, and using it in such a role is, to say the least, odd.

    - The Earth, roughly speaking, still has the shape of a ball and therefore there is such a concept as radio horizonIts empirical formula is 110H (in kilometers). An AWACS, or Hawkeye, flying at an altitude of 10 km, even when flying over flat terrain or the sea, cannot see targets near the ground further than 110√10 = 348 kilometers, no matter how powerful and sophisticated his radar wasAnd if there are mountain ranges in front of it and the theater of operations, then the situation for the AWACS aircraft worsens even more. But for security reasons, the AWACS cannot and should not approach the active combat zone closer than 200 km, and today, with the advent of long-range SAMs and air-to-air missiles, even further—so how much narrower will its radio horizon be in the direction of interest?! It could shrink to virtually zero. Therefore, for AWACS, the transmission of information received by the F-22 radar, flying in the thick of things and at its ceiling altitude of 19.8 km, from where the radio horizon is 110√19.8 = 490 kilometers, is the only way to obtain detailed information in real time from the required direction.But since a large F-22 AWACS has at its disposal not just one, but a sufficient number, it is able to receive information from each one—AWACS have been equipped with the same tactical data terminal units as F-22s since their introduction in 2005. EVERYTHING THAT THE F-22'S RADAR SEES, THE AWACS OPERATORS SEES TOO.
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    Why can't the F-22 transmit images from its radar to its AWACS?!

    Of course it can, who can argue with that?

    - SO FOR AWACS THIS IS THE ONLY AVAILABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION IN THE THEATER OF OPERATIONS - ITS OWN RADAR CANNOT SEE THAT FAR BECAUSE OF THE CURVATURE OF THE EARTH, AND ITS NO OTHER SOURCES OF INFORMATION.
    So what are the doubts?
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    - Doesn't suffer from what?

    using fighters for AWACS

    - Like in that joke - "They don't suffer from this, they enjoy it!" The carrier has 4-5 Hawkeyes as AWACS aircraft, but each F-18E/F/G has a source of transmitting and receiving tactical information, although less sophisticated than the F-22/F-35, They can exchange tactical information with each other and of course they can transmit it to the aircraft carrier and receive it from the aircraft carrier.Not to mention that if the F-35Cs are also based on this aircraft carrier—they are equipped with even more advanced tactical information transmission systems and, of course, can be used if necessary, including via satellite communications—aircraft from the carrier sometimes fly very far from the mothership.

    One click from Wiki:

    The Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet carrier-based fighter-bomber utilizes advanced digital systems for tactical information exchange, enabling integration into the U.S. Navy's network-centric warfare system.
    Key data transmission devices and systems include:
    Data Links: Include secure communication channels that enable the exchange of tactical information between aircraft, ships, and ground control centers.
    Link 16: NATO's premier tactical data exchange standard, enabling the F/A-18E/F to receive and transmit targeting, friendly force position, and other combat information in real time.
    Tactical Information Exchange Aircraft System Gateway: Independent gateways are installed on board to integrate data from various sources.
    AN/APG-79 Airborne Radar: An active electronically scanned array (AESA) that not only detects targets but also transmits air and ground situational awareness data to the battle management system.
    IRST21 (Infrared Search and Track) System: An infrared search and track system used to passively detect and report the thermal signatures of targets.

    These systems are integrated by a new onboard computer, which controls the information field of the two-seat (F/A-18F) and single-seat (F/A-18E) modifications.

    Similarly from the English Wiki:

    AI Overview

    The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet utilizes a suite of advanced tactical data transmission devices to share real-time intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) data with aircraft carriers, combat groups, and other platforms. Key systems include MIDS JTRS for Link 16, Tactical Targeting Networking Technology (TTNT) for high-speed connectivity, and the Network Tactical Common Data Link (NTCDL) for carrier-based communications.

    Primary Tactical Data Systems
    MIDS JTRS (Multifunctional Information Distribution System Joint Tactical Radio System): This is the primary software-programmable radio used for high-capacity, jam-resistant Link 16 networking. It allows F/A-18E/F pilots to share data with other US and coalition aircraft, ships, and ground forces.
    TTNT (Tactical Targeting Networking Technology): Integrated into MIDS JTRS terminals, TTNT provides a low-latency, high-throughput waveform for time-sensitive targeting, offering much higher bandwidth than traditional Link 16.
    NTCDL (Network Tactical Common Data Link): Installed on aircraft carriers and large amphibious ships, this system provides simultaneous, real-time transmission and reception of ISR data, including full-motion video from F/A-18s and unmanned vehicles.
    ARC-210 Radio (RT-1824C): Provides digital messaging capabilities for Close Air Support (CAS) missions.
    Link 16 Terminals: Secure, anti-jam systems that transmit and exchange tactical information across the battle group.

    Carrier-Specific Systems
    NGC2P (Next Generation C2P): A data link system used aboard aircraft carriers to connect with satellite data links, serving as a successor to older C2P systems.
    AN/ARA-63 TILS (Tactical Instrument Landing System): A microwave landing system that provides precise elevation and azimuth guidance for F/A-18E/F and EA-18G aircraft landing on carrier decks.

    Kratos Defense

    Targeting and Information Warfare
    Advanced Tactical Data Links (ATDL) in LITENING Pods: Used in the F/A-18 to facilitate faster data transfer from electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) targeting pods, often utilizing Bandwidth Efficient Common Data Link (BE-CDL).
    Combat Identification (ID) & IP-based Networking: The Block II and III upgrades focus on increasing network connectivity and enabling networked weapons.
    1. +1
      April 19 2026 03: 29
      The picture here is exaggerated, of course, but it will help to eliminate any doubts...
      1. +1
        April 19 2026 03: 35
        And this is not a "meaningless" scheme, it is absolutely real and is very widely used by Americans.
        Article for 2008-th year:
        https://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2008-02-29/5_pentagon.html
        1. 0
          April 19 2026 03: 41
          All of this has been realized in the current Israeli-American-Iranian war.
        2. 0
          April 19 2026 14: 19
          Quote: Michael1950
          And this is not a "meaningless" scheme, it is absolutely real and is very widely used by Americans.

          Так сошлитесь на что-нибудь.
          Quote: Michael1950
          https://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2008-02-29/5_pentagon.html

          Увы, тут и близко описанной Вами схемы нет.
          Не случайно сами специалисты ВВС США истребитель F-22 именуют иногда мини-«АВАКСом». При этом подчеркивается, что благодаря своей мощной РЛС и малой информационной заметности, позволяющей F-22 находиться непосредственно в зоне боевых операций, «Рэптор» может иметь в этом статусе даже большую эффективность, чем обычный самолет РЛДН «АВАКС».

          Это ВООБЩЕ но о том, что Вы пишете
          1. -1
            April 19 2026 16: 04
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Это ВООБЩЕ но о том, что Вы пишете

            Андрей, Michael1950, с которым Вы дискутируете, - это Михаил Исакович Цайгер, он же - Бен-Ицхак, он же - Вуду, он же - Breez, он же - ... Надо продолжать?
            1. 0
              April 19 2026 16: 49
              Уважаемый Ван, а какой вывод из этого?
              1. +1
                April 19 2026 23: 28
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Уважаемый Ван, а какой вывод из этого?

                Все, что Вы пытаетесь ему объяснить, ему уже неоднократно объясняли. И про располагаемые перегрузки ракет, и про полеты на практическом потолке, и требуемую траекторию полета ДРЛОУ. Но он все продолжает по кругу.
                З.Ы. Наберите в поисковике то, что я Вам написал про Вашего оппонента. Точно найдете интересное...
                З.З.Ы. Кстати, Michael1950 - это его третий ник здесь, и, думаю, непоследний.
                1. 0
                  April 20 2026 11: 16
                  Точно найдете интересное...
                  Полностью согласен, вот с сайта Сухого:
                  В 2005-м году на Sukhoi.Ru пришёл гражданин Израиля, бывший подполковник ВВС СССР, прямо утверждавший, что был замполитом (в своей биографии подчёркивает, что был штурманом). Он зарегистрировался под позывным "wind" и...
                  Он также говорил, что он специалист по РЭБ, а вот тут теперь и по радиолокации.
                  В 2018 году был арестован Роман Дмитриев, технолог КнААЗ. Согласно обвинению, Дмитриев выкладывал на форуме AirForce.Ru сведения, составляющие военную тайну...
                  По мнению следствия, агент израильской политической разведки MOSSAD Михаил Цайгер сознательно троллил Романа Дмитриева, из-за чего тот и начал свою деятельность на форуме. По одним данным Дмитриев сознательно шёл на вербовку и продажу секретных сведений, по другим - совершил глупейшую ошибку из желания показаться более осведомленным, чем Цайгер...
                  Не совершайте чужих ошибок.
                  Я не собираюсь говорить, что выдавать секретные сведения со своей работы это нехорошо, западло и так далее мотивировать совесть. Я скажу проще: любые сведения, которые вы выкладываете в общий доступ, и которые не были опубликованы в открытых источниках, могут привести даже не к вашему тюремному заключению. Они могут привести, что гораздо хуже, к проблемам ваших близких, вплоть до их физического устранения, теми, кому по их обязанностям положено эти сведения из вас добывать любым путём.
                  Не болтай у телефона, болтун находка для шпиона!
    2. +1
      April 19 2026 14: 18
      Quote: Michael1950
      Хокай, летящий на высоте 10 км, даже летя над равнинной местностью, или морем, не видит цели у земли дальше 110√10=348 километров, какой бы мощной и совершенной не была его РЛС

      Но, поскольку самолеты очень не любят низкие высоты, то, конечно же, в основном случае они к земле не жмутся, а летают хотя бы на средних высотах.Что сразу же делает востребованной дальность РЛС в 550-600 км.
      Quote: Michael1950
      Поэтому для АВАКСа передача информации, получаемой БРЛС F-22, летящего в самой гуще событий и на высоте своего потолка 19.8 км, откуда радиогоризонт 110√19.8=490 километров

      С которой Ф-22 вообще ничего не видит. На 348 км - кстати, тоже.
      Quote: Michael1950
      - ТАК ДЛЯ АВАКСА ЭТО ЕДИНСТВЕННО ДОСТУПНЫЙ ИСТОЧНИК ИНФОРМАЦИИ НА ТВД,

      Нет. Для АВАКС источник информации - это его РТР и РЛК. Никакие Ф-22 "в гущу боя" светить своим радаром не полезут - потому что
      Quote: Michael1950
      с появляением дальнобойных ЗУР и УРВВ

      он теряет все свои преимущества стелс-истребителя, при том что возможности его БрЛС не позволяют ему эффективно работать ДРЛО. Мощность не та, площадь антенны не та, наконец, диапазон не тот.
      Так что я все же задам Вам вопрос - откуда Вы взяли столь экзотическую схему АВАКС- Ф-22?:)))))))
      Quote: Michael1950
      о поскольку в распоряжении большого АВАКСа F-22 не один, а достаточное количество, он имеет возможность получать информацию с каждого

      на самом деле тут есть определенные сомнения - Link 16 совсем не чемпион по пропускной способности.
      Но самое главное - НА F-22 НЕТ LINK16 РАБОТАЮЩЕЙ НА ПЕРЕДАЧУ - ТОЛЬКО НА ПРИЕМ.
      Поэтому "Раптор", конечно, может передать изображение на АВАКС... Если пилот устно опишет, что он видит по обычной связи laughing
      И я еще раз прошу Вас - откуда Вы взяли описанную Вами схему?
  40. 0
    April 19 2026 15: 10
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Это ВООБЩЕ но о том, что Вы пишете

    - Это о том, что появлением дальнобойных ЗУР и УРВВ АВАКС вынужден находится на такой дальности от "гущи боя", где он сам, своей РЛС не может управлять теми самыми 150-ю самолётами на ТВД. Но АВАКС может и он принимает ту информацию, что ему дают F-22 — и большая группа операторов на его борту на основе поставляемой информации может руководить боевыми действиями своей авиации.
  41. 0
    April 19 2026 16: 14
    [quote=Андрей из Челябинска][quote=Michael1950]Хокай, летящий на высоте 10 км, даже летя над равнинной местностью, или морем, не видит цели у земли дальше 110√10=348 километров, какой бы мощной и совершенной не была его РЛС[/quote]
    Но, поскольку самолеты очень не любят низкие высоты, то, конечно же, в основном случае они к земле не жмутся, а летают хотя бы на средних высотах.Что сразу же делает востребованной дальность РЛС в 550-600 км.[/quote]
    - Это кто Вам сказал, что "самолёты не любят малые и предельно малые высоты"?! Это Вам наврали. Американцы потратили миллиарды долларов на НИОКР, чтобы из B-1A создать B-1B, у которого скорость на 1000 (!!) км/час меньше, чем у прототипа, но зато он способен ЧАСАМИ летать на высотах 60-100 метров над рельефом местности! Что совершенно не соответствует Вашей гипотезе, что "лётчики и самолёты не любят малые и предельно малые высоты". Как видите — "любят", да ещё как! Самое смешное: самолёт B-2 аналогично наделён способностью летать на высотах от 60-ти метров, правда, "всего лищь" на скорости 800 км/час, в не 1050-1100 км/час, как B-1B...
    [quote=Michael1950]Поэтому для АВАКСа передача информации, получаемой БРЛС F-22, летящего в самой гуще событий и на высоте своего потолка 19.8 км, откуда радиогоризонт 110√19.8=490 километров[/quote]
    С которой Ф-22 вообще ничего не видит. На 348 км - кстати, тоже.[/quote]
    ВЕЛИКОЛЕПНО ВИДИТ. Разрешающая способность его РЛС — 30 сантиметров!
    [quote=Michael1950]- ТАК ДЛЯ АВАКСА ЭТО ЕДИНСТВЕННО ДОСТУПНЫЙ ИСТОЧНИК ИНФОРМАЦИИ НА ТВД,[/quote]
    Нет. Для АВАКС источник информации - это его РТР и РЛК.[/quote]
    Для самолётов летящих на предельно малой высоте — это радиогоризонт. Не 650 км, а только лишь 350 км.
    [quote=Андрей из Челябинска] Никакие Ф-22 "в гущу боя" светить своим радаром не полезут - потому что
    [quote=Michael1950]с появляением дальнобойных ЗУР и УРВВ [/quote]
    он теряет все свои преимущества стелс-истребителя, [/quote]
    - ?? С КАКОЙ СТАТИ ОН ИХ "ТЕРЯЕТ"?
    [quote=Андрей из Челябинска]при том что возможности его БрЛС не позволяют ему эффективно работать ДРЛО. Мощность не та, площадь антенны не та, наконец, диапазон не тот. [/quote]
    - Вы категорически не хотите понимать, что я говорю? F-22 не будет работать самолётом ДРЛО на огромном ТВД во многие сотни и тысячи квадратных километров. Он нужен для того, чтобы передать своему АВАКСу ту информацию, которую тот без него получить никак не может (смотрите картинку). А непосредственно F-22 может работать как самолт ДРЛО для небольшой группы самолётов 4-го поколения, или как командир группы других F-22 (например, звена) которые идут впереди него на расстоянии 30-50 км не включая свои БРЛС на излучение совсем, а сзади идущий F-22 командира звена с работающей БРЛС, передаёт им все данные об обстановке и выполняет целераспределение между ними.
    [quote=Андрей из Челябинска]Так что я все же задам Вам вопрос - откуда Вы взяли столь экзотическую схему АВАКС- Ф-22?:)))))))[/quote]
    - Она не экзотическая ОНА ЕДИНСТВЕННО ВОЗМОЖНАЯ. Других источников информации у АВАКСа в некторых местах ТВД simply no.
    [quote=Андрей из Челябинска][quote=Michael1950]о поскольку в распоряжении большого АВАКСа F-22 не один, а достаточное количество, он имеет возможность получать информацию с каждого[/quote]
    на самом деле тут есть определенные сомнения - Link 16 совсем не чемпион по пропускной способности.
    Но самое главное - НА F-22 НЕТ LINK16 РАБОТАЮЩЕЙ НА ПЕРЕДАЧУ - ТОЛЬКО НА ПРИЕМ.
    Поэтому "Раптор", конечно, может передать изображение на АВАКС... Если пилот устно опишет, что он видит по обычной связи laughing [/ Quote]
    - Но при чём здесь Link 16?? Вы, для смеха, даже не заглянули в описание, что именно за система передачи тактической информации стоит на F-22 и позволяет ему первоклассно передавать её на остальные F-22 и, разумеется, на свои АВАКСы, наземные КП, корабельные КП и другие подобные объекты!! ГДЕ СТОЯТ АНАЛОГИЧНЫЕ ОКОНЕЧНЫЕ УСТРОЙСТВА, ПОЗВОЛЯЮЩИЕ ПРЕКРАСНО ОРГАНИЗОВЫВАТЬ ИНФОРМАЦИОННЫЙ ОБМЕН!
    Avionics

    Самолет имеет интегрированную авионику, в которой за счет объединения данных с датчиков информация со всех бортовых сенсорных систем, а также внешних источников, фильтруется и обрабатывается для получения единой тактической картины, что повышает ситуационную осведомленность пилота и снижает рабочую нагрузку. Ключевые системы управления полетом включают в себя систему радиоэлектронной разведки Sanders /General Electric AN/ALR-94, инфракрасный и ультрафиолетовый детектор запуска ракет Martin Marietta AN/AAR-56 (MLD), радар с активной фазированной антенной решеткой (AESA) Westinghouse / Texas Instruments AN/APG-77 , комплекс связи/навигации/идентификации (CNI) TRW AN/ASQ-220 и проходящие испытания усовершенствованные инфракрасные системы поиска и сопровождения (IRST) Raytheon .

    Радар APG-77 имеет малозаметную, активную апертурную, электронно-сканируемую антенну с возможностью сопровождения нескольких целей во время сканирования в любых погодных условиях; антенна наклонена назад для обеспечения малозаметности. Его излучение может быть сфокусировано для перегрузки вражеских датчиков в качестве средства радиоэлектронной борьбы . Радар меняет частоты более 1000 раз в секунду, чтобы снизить вероятность перехвата , и имеет расчетную дальность 125–150 миль (201–241 км) по цели площадью 11 кв. футов (1 м² ) и 250 миль (400 км) или более в узких лучах. Модернизированный APG-77(V)1 обеспечивает функциональность «воздух-земля» за счет картографирования с помощью радиолокатора с синтезированной апертурой (SAR), индикации/сопровождения движущихся наземных целей (GMTI/GMTT) и режимов нанесения ударов.

    Система радиоэлектронной разведки ALR-94, одна из самых технически сложных систем на F-22, объединяет более 30 антенн, интегрированных в крылья и фюзеляж, для кругового обзора и определения местоположения угроз. Она может использоваться как пассивный детектор, способный искать цели на дальностях (более 250 морских миль ), превышающих дальность действия радара, и может предоставлять достаточно информации для захвата цели с помощью узкополосного чередующегося поиска и сопровождения (NBILST) и наведения радиолокационного излучения на узкий луч (до 2° на 2° по азимуту и ​​углу места). В зависимости от обнаруженной угрозы, системы защиты могут побудить пилота к применению контрмер, таких как тепловые ловушки или дипольные отражатели. Для обеспечения малозаметности в радиочастотном спектре излучение ASQ-220 CNI строго контролируется и ограничивается определенными секторами, а тактическая связь между F-22 осуществляется с использованием направленной меж/внутриполетной линии передачи данных (IFDL). Система CNI также управляет TACAN , IFF (включая режим 5 ) и связью различными способами, такими как HAVE QUICK /SATURN, SINCGARS , а позже и Link 16. Дополнительные пассивные методы обнаружения включают детектор запуска ракет AAR-56, который использует шесть датчиков для обеспечения полного сферического инфракрасного покрытия; датчики обновляются до TacIRST для улучшения обнаружения и повышения живучести. Отдельно, усовершенствованный IRST, размещенный в малозаметном подвесном контейнере на крыле, представляет собой датчик с узким полем зрения для пассивной идентификации и целеуказания на больших расстояниях. [ 176 ] Самолет также был модернизирован автоматической системой предотвращения столкновений с землей (GCAS). [ 177 ]

    Информация с радаров, CNI и других датчиков обрабатывается двумя бортовыми компьютерами Hughes Common Integrated Processor (CIP), каждый из которых способен обрабатывать до 10,5 миллиардов инструкций в секунду . Базовое программное обеспечение F-22 содержит около 1,7 миллиона строк кода , большая часть которого относится к бортовым системам, таким как обработка радиолокационных данных. Высокая степень интеграции системы архитектуры авионики, а также использование языка программирования Ada , [ N 21 ] сделали разработку и тестирование обновлений сложной задачей. Для обеспечения более быстрых обновлений CIP были модернизированы с помощью процессорных модулей Curtiss-Wright Open Mission Systems (OMS), а также модульной открытой системной архитектуры, называемой платформой оркестровки Open Systems Enclave (OSE), чтобы позволить комплексу авионики взаимодействовать с контейнеризированным программным обеспечением от сторонних поставщиков.

    Способность F-22 действовать вблизи поля боя обеспечивает самолету возможности обнаружения и идентификации угроз, сравнимые с RC-135 Rivet Joint , а также возможность функционировать как «мини- AWACS », хотя его радар менее мощный, чем у специализированных платформ. Это позволяет F-22 быстро определять цели для союзников и координировать действия дружественных самолетов. Хотя связь с другими типами самолетов первоначально ограничивалась голосовой связью, модернизация позволила передавать данные через бортовой коммуникационный узел поля боя (BACN) или через трафик JTIDS/ Link 16 через MIDS-JTRS. [ 118 ] Шина IEEE 1394 B , разработанная для F-22, была создана на основе коммерческой системы шины IEEE 1394 «FireWire». [ 183 ] В 2007 году радар F-22 был протестирован в качестве беспроводного приемопередатчика данных, передающего данные со скоростью 548 мегабит в секунду и принимающего данные на гигабитной скорости, что намного быстрее, чем система Link 16. Радиочастотные приемники самолета обеспечивают средства радиоэлектронной борьбы (РЭБ) и возможность выполнения задач разведки, наблюдения и рекогносцировки (РРР).
    [quote=Андрей из Челябинска]И я еще раз прошу Вас - откуда Вы взяли описанную Вами схему?[/quote]
    - Она единственно возможная и само собой разумеющаяся.
    1. 0
      April 19 2026 16: 21
      Здесь дурдом с цитированием, и времени на исправление машина не даёт, надеюсь Вы разберётесь...
      Ссылка отсюда:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor
      1. 0
        April 19 2026 16: 40
        2008-ой год, почти 20 лет назад:
        https://defense-update.com/20080528_f22_datalink_gateway.html
        F-22 входит в сеть – соединение IFDL, TTNT, Link 16

        ВВС США заявляют об успешном испытании технологии передачи секретной информации с двух истребителей пятого поколения F-22 Raptor на наземные станции в ходе недавних учений Объединенного экспедиционного корпуса (JEFX 08) на авиабазах Неллис в Неваде и Лэнгли в Вирджинии с использованием новой технологии тактической сети наведения, разрабатываемой компанией Rockwell Collins.

        Из соображений безопасности доступ к информации, предоставляемой некоторыми из самых передовых датчиков, доступных в настоящее время на театре военных действий, строго ограничен. Например, разведывательная информация и ситуационная картина, создаваемая истребителями F-22 Raptor, не могут передаваться на F-15, F-16 или AWACS, даже если обе единицы участвуют в одной и той же операции. Будучи самолетами-невидимками, F-22 не оснащены обычными каналами передачи данных, такими как Link-16, которые легко обнаруживаются вражеской радиоэлектронной разведкой. Вместо этого они используют уникальную, соответствующую требованиям стелс-технологии, узколучевую внутриполетную линию передачи данных (IFDL), предназначенную для ретрансляции данных и синхронизации ситуационной картины только между истребителями Raptor. Поскольку эта стелс-линия передачи данных несовместима со всеми другими средствами связи, истребители Raptor не могут общаться ни с одним дружественным самолетом.

        Экспериментальный бортовой коммуникационный узел для поля боя (BACN), разработанный компанией Northrop Grumman, частично решит эту проблему. Ранняя версия этого бортового ретранслятора, используемого в настоящее время на самолете NASA WB-57 в Афганистане, применяла ряд радиоканалов для связи между различными сетями. Более совершенная версия, интегрированная в бизнес-джет Gulfstream, проходит испытания. После завершения разработки Northrop Grumman планирует развернуть BCAN на беспилотном летательном аппарате Global Hawk.

        В ходе учений два истребителя Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor протестировали новый метод универсальной связи для F-22 с помощью экспериментальной версии тактической сети целеуказания (TTNT) компании Rockwell Collins. Впервые данные с датчиков F-22 были переданы в Объединенный центр воздушных операций (CAOC) с использованием тактической сети. В ходе предыдущего испытания, проведенного в рамках JFEX08-2 ранее в этом году, изображения передавались с F-22 на F-16 через наземный шлюз. В этом эксперименте новая радиостанция успешно передала секретные данные с датчиков на наземные станции на авиабазах Неллис и Лэнгли, которые затем передали данные на F-16 в воздухе. По словам полковника Моултона, испытание обеспечило необходимую поддержку для дальнейшего развития будущих средств связи на поле боя с воздуха (BACN) и будущего мобильного наземного шлюза, предназначенных для поддержки совместных воздушных и наземных операций.
        1. 0
          April 19 2026 16: 42
          Extension
          «Компания Lockheed Martin была рада решению ВВС продемонстрировать ценность обмена данными разведки и наблюдения F-22 с другими истребителями и обратно в Объединенный центр воздушных операций», — сказал Ларри Лоусон, исполнительный вице-президент компании Lockheed Martin Aeronautics и генеральный менеджер программы F-22. «Наши F-22 сделали огромный первый шаг к интеграции в сеть в ходе учений JEFX08. Пилоты отправляли и получали информацию, такую ​​как сообщения управления и контроля, изображения, обновления воздушного пространства и текстовые сообщения, используя цветной сенсорный дисплей в кабине», — сказал Марк Джефферсон, директор по горизонтальной интеграции компании Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. «Они были довольно заняты выполнением наступательных операций по противовоздушной обороне и уничтожению противовоздушной обороны противника, а также динамических целеуказаний с помощью F-16 и нетрадиционных мероприятий по сбору разведывательной информации во время учений, одновременно передавая секретные данные с датчиков в Объединенный центр воздушных операций».
          1. 0
            April 19 2026 16: 47
            https://www.twz.com/40380/f-22-and-f-35-datalinks-finally-talk-freely-with-each-other-thanks-to-a-u-2-flying-translator
            Благодаря летающему преобразователю U-2, каналы передачи данных F-22 и F-35 наконец-то начали свободно взаимодействовать друг с другом.
            Помимо соединения истребителей F-22 и F-35, самолет U-2 и его вспомогательная полезная нагрузка также обеспечивали связь между военно-морскими и наземными средствами и многое другое.
            Джозеф Тревитик и Тайлер Рогоуэй
            1. 0
              April 19 2026 16: 51
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multifunction_Advanced_Data_Link
              Многофункциональный усовершенствованный канал передачи данных (MADL) — это быстродействующий узконаправленный канал связи между самолетами-невидимками . [ 1 ] Изначально он использовался для координации между F-35 (Joint Strike Fighter), но штаб командования ВВС хочет расширить возможности для координации будущих ударных сил ВВС США всех самолетов-невидимок ВВС, включая B-2 , F-22 и беспилотные системы. Ожидается, что MADL обеспечит необходимую пропускную способность, задержку, скачкообразную смену частоты и помехоустойчивость с помощью фазированных антенных решеток (AAA), которые передают и принимают радиосигналы с высокой направленностью. [ 2 ] MADL использует диапазон Ku . [ 3 ]

              Управление заместителя министра обороны по вопросам закупок, технологий и логистики поручило ВВС и ВМС интегрировать систему MADL между истребителями F-22, F-35 и B-2, а также между ними и остальной частью сети.

              По состоянию на 2010 год ВВС отменили планы модернизации F-22 с целью получения сертификата MADL, сославшись на риски, связанные с недостаточной зрелостью технологий.

              Критики утверждают, что, поскольку Link 16 является стандартом, по которому общаются самолеты США и союзников, следует поддерживать модернизацию радиостанций Link-16 [ 4 ] , которая может обеспечить те же возможности, что и MADL, сохраняя при этом совместимость.
              1. +1
                April 19 2026 18: 23
                Quote: Michael1950
                - Это кто Вам сказал, что "самолёты не любят малые и предельно малые высоты"?! Это Вам наврали.

                Это мне сказали правду. То, что современные самолеты США по стратобомберы включительно умеют летать, "прижимаясь к рельефу местности" мне, конечно же, известно. Но известно и то, что выполняя такие полеты, самолеты подставляются под огонь ПЗРК и МЗА, поэтому американцы вовсе не стараются летать на сверхнизких. Они предпочитают, подавив ПВО противника, оперировать на средних высотах, а на низкие уходят ситуативно, когда этого требует боевая задача.
                Quote: Michael1950
                ВЕЛИКОЛЕПНО ВИДИТ. Разрешающая способность его РЛС — 30 сантиметров!

                Слабоват он, смотреть на 350 км. Мощность у 77-ой вряд ли превышает 18-20 кВт. Впрочем, ТТХ AN/APG-77 до сих пор не рассекречены, однако чудес от нее ждать не приходится.
                Quote: Michael1950
                - ?? С КАКОЙ СТАТИ ОН ИХ "ТЕРЯЕТ"?

                С того, что дезавуирует свое положение активным излучением. Полагаю, что Вы сейчас напишете о том, что Ф-22 на это плевать, в силу его низкой заметности. Не стоит. Ваше отношение к этому самолету мне известно, но я не доверяю многим данным о ТТХ "Раптора". США... иногда балуются таким, вспомнить 406-мм броневой пояс линкоров типа "Айова".
                Банально - если бы AN/APG-77 была бы настолько всемогущей в режиме LPI, американские пилоты Ф-22 не жаловались бы на отсутствие ОЛС. А они жаловались в Сирии, встречаясь с нашими сушками.
                Quote: Michael1950
                Вы, для смеха, даже не заглянули в описание, что именно за система передачи тактической информации стоит на F-22 и позволяет ему первоклассно передавать её на остальные F-22 и, разумеется, на свои АВАКСы, наземные КП, корабельные КП и другие подобные объекты!!

                Да как бы нет. То, что стояло на Ф-22 позволяло ему обмениваться данными только с Ф-22 же. Как Вы верно и написали
                а тактическая связь между F-22 осуществляется с использованием направленной меж/внутриполетной линии передачи данных (IFDL)
                Quote: Michael1950
                Хотя связь с другими типами самолетов первоначально ограничивалась голосовой связью, модернизация позволила передавать данные через бортовой коммуникационный узел поля боя (BACN) или через трафик JTIDS/ Link 16 через MIDS-JTRS.

                Агась. Но это - модернизация 2021 г. Вы же пишете, что американцы уж 20 лет как используют Ф-22 в качестве карманного фонарика АВАКС-а
                Quote: Michael1950
                - Она единственно возможная и само собой разумеющаяся.

                Для Вас - безусловно. Но мне бы все-таки получить бы какую-то информацию от самих американцев:))))))
                Quote: Michael1950
                2008-ой год, почти 20 лет назад:
                https://defense-update.com/20080528_f22_datalink_gateway.html
                F-22 входит в сеть – соединение IFDL, TTNT, Link 16

                Да. Но это - лишь испытания экспериментального узла, а до внедрения было еще ой как далеко...
                Quote: Michael1950
                Благодаря летающему преобразователю U-2, каналы передачи данных F-22 и F-35 наконец-то начали свободно взаимодействовать друг с другом.

                так и есть - только новость от 2021 года.
                А до него - извините, голосовая связь:)
  42. 0
    April 19 2026 18: 44
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    - Это кто Вам сказал, что "самолёты не любят малые и предельно малые высоты"?! Это Вам наврали.

    Это мне сказали правду. То, что современные самолеты США по стратобомберы включительно умеют летать, "прижимаясь к рельефу местности" мне, конечно же, известно. Но известно и то, что выполняя такие полеты, самолеты подставляются под огонь ПЗРК и МЗА

    - Повторяю ещё раз: скорость полёта самолёта B-1B на высоте 60 метров над равнинной местностью 1050-1100 км/час. При чём он меняет маршрут многократно, обходя угрожаемые зоны. А поскольку он приспособлен так лететь ЧАСАМИ, понятно, что никакие ПЗР и ЗСУ ему не угрожают — у него крайне низкая вероятность пройти там, где они есть, но самое главное: на этой высоте и скорости время реакции что оператора ПЗРК, что рассчёта ЗСУ не позволяет выполнить прицеливание, захват и произвести эффективный огонь.
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    поэтому американцы вовсе не стараются летать на сверхнизких. Они предпочитают, подавив ПВО противника, оперировать на средних высотах, а на низкие уходят ситуативно, когда этого требует боевая задача.

    - Нет на войне такого понятия "я предпочитаю". Мы говорим именно о том, где это диктуется условиями обстановки. Поэтому американцы забросили на помойку расчудесный скоростной и высотный B-1A, "где америкнцы любят летать":
    https://airwar.ru/enc/bomber/b1.html
    И потратили уйму денег, чтобы создать тихоходный, но позволяющий летать у самой земли B-1B, "где американцы летать не любят":
    https://airwar.ru/enc/bomber/b1.html
  43. 0
    April 19 2026 18: 55
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    ВЕЛИКОЛЕПНО ВИДИТ. Разрешающая способность его РЛС — 30 сантиметров!

    Слабоват он, смотреть на 350 км.

    - Вам это сказал кто?! Роман Скоморохов? При том, что весь интернет кипит сообщениями, что вот "Ирбис" спокойно видит цель на дальности 400 километров! wink
    Радиолокационная система (РЛС) «Ирбис-Э» (устанавливаемая на Су-35) действительно обладает высокой дальностью обнаружения, однако, согласно открытым техническим характеристикам, максимальная дальность обнаружения воздушных целей с ЭПР 3 кв. м составляет 350–400 км...
    Мощность у 77-ой вряд ли превышает 18-20 кВт. Впрочем, ТТХ AN/APG-77 до сих пор не рассекречены, однако чудес от нее ждать не приходится.

    - То есть: APG-77(V)1 до "Ирбиса" — как пьяному до Пекина на карачках? laughing
    1. +1
      April 19 2026 19: 13
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Повторяю ещё раз: скорость полёта самолёта B-1B на высоте 60 метров над равнинной местностью 1050-1100 км/час.

      Это - его работа по прорыву ПВО СССР. В рамках этой задачи он бы и шел на сверхнизких. Но это вовсе не значит, что он (и уж тем более самолеты тактической авиации) будут там летать
      Quote: Michael1950
      на этой высоте и скорости время реакции что оператора ПЗРК, что рассчёта ЗСУ не позволяет выполнить прицеливание, захват и произвести эффективный огонь.

      Ну вот, американцы с Вами не согласны, поэтому в Буре в пустыне ниже 1 300 м очень старались не летать.
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Вам это сказал кто?! Роман Скоморохов?

      Здравый смысл:)))
      Quote: Michael1950
      При том, что весь интернет кипит сообщениями, что вот "Ирбис" спокойно видит цель на дальности 400 километров!

      Ну да. В секторе 10 на 10 град, причем - на встречных курсах и непонятно, насчет "спокойно". Есть подозрение, что 350-400 км это предельная граница где он сумеет увидеть цель ЭПР 3 кв. м. Теоретически.
      Quote: Michael1950
      - То есть: APG-77(V)1 до "Ирбиса" — как пьяному до Пекина на карачках?

      Скорее, по дальности они сопоставимы. И с треском проигрывают тому же "Эдванст Хокай"
  44. 0
    April 19 2026 19: 27
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    он теряет все свои преимущества стелс-истребителя, при том что возможности его БрЛС не позволяют ему эффективно работать ДРЛО. Мощность не та, площадь антенны не та, наконец, диапазон не тот.

    Quote: Michael1950
    - ?? С КАКОЙ СТАТИ ОН ИХ "ТЕРЯЕТ"?

    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    С того, что дезавуирует свое положение активным излучением.

    - Есть режим работы БРЛС LPI — низкой вероятности перехвата. Станции радиотехнической разведки противника его не воспринимают.
    Мощность не та

    - Я же Вам привёл цитату, где американцы утверждают, что мощность именно та! wink Вы её не прочли??
    ,
    площадь антенны не та, наконец, диапазон не тот

    - Американцы утверждают, что всё нормально.
    Полагаю, что Вы сейчас напишете о том, что Ф-22 на это плевать, в силу его низкой заметности. Не стоит.

    - Малозаметность F-22 проверена на ДЕСЯТКАХ крупных международных учений за последние 20 лет его работы в строю, на сотнях внутриамериканских учений, ТЫСЯЧИ лётчиков могли своими глазами убедиться, что F-22 — действительно МАЛОзаметный самолёт.
    Ваше отношение к этому самолету мне известно, но я не доверяю многим данным о ТТХ "Раптора".

    - Могу ещё раз посторить: ТТХ F-22 "на своей шкуре" проверили тысячи лётчиков из десятков развитых стран Земли. Это не моё субъективное мнение, "ни на чём не основанное" — я просто верю этим тысячпм свидетельств. И более тысячи проданных F-35, чья ЭПР очень близка к ЭПР F-22, тоже это доказывают. "Практика — критерий истины" — не помните, кто сказал?
    Банально - если бы AN/APG-77 была бы настолько всемогущей в режиме LPI, американские пилоты Ф-22 не жаловались бы на отсутствие ОЛС.

    - Ни разу мне не встречалось ни единой жалобы?! Приведите ссылку?
    А они жаловались в Сирии, встречаясь с нашими сушками.

    - ?? Не понял, — в чём юмор этой байки и кто её запустил? Зачем лётчикам F-22, встречаясь в Сирии с российскими лётчиками на Су-35-ых, жалеть о том, что на F-22 нет ОЛС?! lol laughing Вы сможете найти ссылку на английском на этот бред?!
    Quote: Michael1950
    Вы, для смеха, даже не заглянули в описание, что именно за система передачи тактической информации стоит на F-22 и позволяет ему первоклассно передавать её на остальные F-22 и, разумеется, на свои АВАКСы, наземные КП, корабельные КП и другие подобные объекты!!

    Да как бы нет. То, что стояло на Ф-22 позволяло ему обмениваться данными только с Ф-22 же. Как Вы верно и написали
    а тактическая связь между F-22 осуществляется с использованием направленной меж/внутриполетной линии передачи данных (IFDL)

    - И сразу вопрос (на засыпку!): какая сволочь командующему ВВС США запретила приказать поставить на все самолёты АВАКС и "Хокай" (чтоб два раза не вставать) оконечные устройства системы IFDL?! Весят они немного — но обеспечивают полноценную двухстороннюю связь на расстоянии сотен километров между любым АВАКСом и F-22-ыми, которые в его подчинении?? КТО И ЧТО МЕШАЛ?? Поставьте себя на место этого командующего?! Почему (по Вашему!) ОН ЭТОГО НЕ СДЕЛАЛ?? laughing Дебил, наверно? Вы бы сделали, я бы сделал с вероятностью 146% — а он, сукин кот, — не сделал?? wink
    1. +1
      April 19 2026 19: 40
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Есть режим работы БРЛС LPI — низкой вероятности перехвата

      Да, сказок про этот режим много.
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Я же Вам привёл цитату, где американцы утверждают, что мощность именно та!

      Не привели
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Американцы утверждают, что всё нормально.

      Так я Вас и прошу уже сколько времени - дайте ссылку на американский источник то у них Ф-22 работает в связке с АВАКС как ДРЛО.
      Quote: Michael1950
      Могу ещё раз посторить: ТТХ F-22 "на своей шкуре" проверили тысячи лётчиков из десятков развитых стран Земли.

      Это немножко преувеличение.
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Ни разу мне не встречалось ни единой жалобы?! Приведите ссылку?

      Да было такое, просто сейчас ссылку найти очень сложно - военная авиация не настолько мне интересна, чтобы держать такие вещи в закладках.
      Quote: Michael1950
      И более тысячи проданных F-35, чья ЭПР очень близка к ЭПР F-22, тоже это доказывают.

      Как бы нет. Причин покупки Ф-35 навалом и без убернезаметности
      Quote: Michael1950
      - И сразу вопрос (на засыпку!): какая сволочь командующему ВВС США запретила приказать поставить на все самолёты АВАКС и "Хокай" (чтоб два раза не вставать) оконечные устройства системы IFDL?!

      Но ведь не поставили же:)))) О чем свидетельствуют Ваши же ссылки, где английским по белому сказано, что Ф-22 не имел возможности связи ни с кем, кроме Ф-22
      Могу предположить, что радиус этой связи был сильно ограничен, но это только догадки
      Quote: Michael1950
      Дебил, наверно? Вы бы сделали

      Нет, я бы, вероятно, тоже не сделал.
      Американцы не глупцы. И они лишили Ф-22 передающих приборов Линк16 не просто так. Они опасались светить его исходящим излучением, за этим они пристально следили.
      И уже одно это дает огромную такую пробоину Вашей аргументации: Вы утверждаете, что "Раптору" плевать на свое активное излучение, что его сочетание БРЛС и невидимости приводит к тому, что он обладает высокой боевой устойчивостью даже при включенном постоянно РЛС.
      Ну, а вот создатели самолета всячески почему-то убирали у него приборы, генерирующие активные сигналы. Даже Линк16 порезали, хотя это явно и сильно снижало возможности Ф-22.
      Знали они что-то такое, что ли, чего не знаете Вы?
  45. 0
    April 19 2026 20: 12
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Да как бы нет. То, что стояло на Ф-22 позволяло ему обмениваться данными только с Ф-22 же. Как Вы верно и написали
    а тактическая связь между F-22 осуществляется с использованием направленной меж/внутриполетной линии передачи данных (IFDL)

    - Мы же с Вами договорились: поставить аппаратуру IFDL на каждый АВАКС — и появляется направленная двухсторонняя связь АВАКСа и F-22. ЧТО МЕШАЕТ?
    Quote: Michael1950
    Хотя связь с другими типами самолетов первоначально ограничивалась голосовой связью, модернизация позволила передавать данные через бортовой коммуникационный узел поля боя (BACN) или через трафик JTIDS/ Link 16 через MIDS-JTRS.

    Агась. Но это - модернизация 2021 г. Вы же пишете, что американцы уж 20 лет как используют Ф-22 в качестве карманного фонарика АВАКС-а

    - Абсолютно. Ничего ме мешает поставить оконечные устройства IFDL на каждый АВАКС. Если несогласны — скажите, почему это нельзя сделать? wink
    Quote: Michael1950
    - Она единственно возможная и само собой разумеющаяся.

    Для Вас - безусловно.

    - Я не думаю, что командование ВВС США глупее меня и они не сделали того, что просто "лежит перед глазами".
    - Но мне бы все-таки получить бы какую-то информацию от самих американцев:))))))

    - Что они не полные идиоты?! laughing
    Quote: Michael1950
    2008-ой год, почти 20 лет назад:
    https://defense-update.com/20080528_f22_datalink_gateway.html
    F-22 входит в сеть – соединение IFDL, TTNT, Link 16

    Да. Но это - лишь испытания экспериментального узла, а до внедрения было еще ой как далеко...

    - Это другой узел, другое, УНИВЕРСАЛЬНОЕ ДЛЯ ВСЕХ ПОТРЕБИТЕЛЕЙ устройство.
    Quote: Michael1950
    Благодаря летающему преобразователю U-2, каналы передачи данных F-22 и F-35 наконец-то начали свободно взаимодействовать друг с другом.

    так и есть - только новость от 2021 года.

    - Системы межсамолётной передачи информации F-22 и F-35 отличались друг от друга, поэтому потребовался для них отдельный интерфейс.
    А до него - извините, голосовая связь:)

    - Меду всеми F-22 с мемента из постановки в строй в 2005-м году между ними осуществлялась волшебная, по мнению одного из американскиз генералов "телепатическая" связь! Потому, что на каждом F-22 стояли одинаковые системы IFDL. Поставьте точно такое же оконечное устройство на любой самолёт, корабль, наземный пункт, автомобиль, АВАКС — будет организован новый, точно такой же канал связи.
    1. +1
      April 19 2026 20: 46
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Мы же с Вами договорились: поставить аппаратуру IFDL на каждый АВАКС — и появляется направленная двухсторонняя связь АВАКСа и F-22. ЧТО МЕШАЕТ?

      Что-то мешает. Ибо
      1) Американцы не глупы
      2) Американцы IFDL на АВАКС не ставили
      Сожалею, но этот спор не имеет смысла. Американцы долго бились над тем, чтобы обеспечить работу оборудования Ф-22 не только на прием, как Линк16, но и на передачу и добились этого только в 2021 г. А до этого он был тем, чем был - стелс-самолетом, неспособным эффективно взаимодействовать с самолетами других типов и классов ВВС США - что неопровержимо следует из Ваших же ссылок выше.
      И нельзя сказать, что американцев это не беспокоило - они много работали над этим, так что первые опытные способы связи (опять же - по Вашим ссылкам) появились в 2008 г. Но довести до серии удалось только к 2021 г
      Из этого следует простой и очевиднейший вывод - даже использование Линк16 на передачу данных дезавуировало невидимку. Соответственно, когда Вы говорите о том, что он мог светить своей 77-ой и это не роняло его боевую устойчивость - Вы, по всей видимости, заблуждаетесь.
  46. 0
    April 19 2026 23: 04
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    - Повторяю ещё раз: скорость полёта самолёта B-1B на высоте 60 метров над равнинной местностью 1050-1100 км/час.

    Это - его работа по прорыву ПВО СССР. В рамках этой задачи он бы и шел на сверхнизких. Но это вовсе не значит, что он (и уж тем более самолеты тактической авиации) будут там летать

    - Везде и всюду, где в этом возникнет тактическая необходимость. Для того его и сделали.
    Quote: Michael1950
    на этой высоте и скорости время реакции что оператора ПЗРК, что рассчёта ЗСУ не позволяет выполнить прицеливание, захват и произвести эффективный огонь.

    Ну вот, американцы с Вами не согласны, поэтому в Буре в пустыне ниже 1 300 м очень старались не летать.

    -Там даже B-52 порой летал и бомбил на высотах 60 метров! Сохранилось полно видео на этот счёт.
    Quote: Michael1950
    - Вам это сказал кто?! Роман Скоморохов?

    Здравый смысл:)))

    - Вы слишком на него полагаетесь. Я предпочитаю полагаться на факты...
    Quote: Michael1950
    При том, что весь интернет кипит сообщениями, что вот "Ирбис" спокойно видит цель на дальности 400 километров!

    Ну да. В секторе 10 на 10 град, причем - на встречных курсах и непонятно, насчет "спокойно". Есть подозрение, что 350-400 км это предельная граница где он сумеет увидеть цель ЭПР 3 кв. м. Теоретически.
    Quote: Michael1950
    - То есть: APG-77(V)1 до "Ирбиса" — как пьяному до Пекина на карачках?

    Скорее, по дальности они сопоставимы. И с треском проигрывают тому же "Эдванст Хокай"

    - Разумеется, так и должно быть. Американцы утверждают, что F-22 прекрасно работает как мини-АВАКС, а ведь это они его эксплуатируют на учениях уже два десятка лет. Как говаривал Жванецкий: "Нужно спорить о вкусе устриц с теми, кто их ел"...
    1. +1
      April 20 2026 08: 22
      Quote: Michael1950
      Американцы утверждают, что F-22 прекрасно работает как мини-АВАКС

      Ага. Только это выглядит, как сейчас Су-35 работает вместо АВАКС, а не так, как это описываете Вы
  47. 0
    April 19 2026 23: 23
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    - Мы же с Вами договорились: поставить аппаратуру IFDL на каждый АВАКС — и появляется направленная двухсторонняя связь АВАКСа и F-22. ЧТО МЕШАЕТ?

    Что-то мешает. Ибо
    1) Американцы не глупы
    2) Американцы IFDL на АВАКС не ставили

    - Откуда Вы знаете?? Повторяю: ЧТО ЖЕ ИМ МОГЛО ПОМЕШАТЬ?
    Сожалею, но этот спор не имеет смысла. Американцы долго бились над тем, чтобы обеспечить работу оборудования Ф-22 не только на прием, как Линк16, но и на передачу и добились этого только в 2021 г.

    - IFDL отлично работал на всех самолётах F-22 с первого дня его службы в строю, c 15 декабря 2005 года, с теми самыми IFDL. Что мешало поставить точно такую же аппаратуру на АВАКСы??
    А до этого он был тем, чем был - стелс-самолетом, неспособным эффективно взаимодействовать с самолетами других типов и классов ВВС США - что неопровержимо следует из Ваших же ссылок выше.

    - С ДРУГИМИ ИСТРЕБИТЕЛЯМИ! Не с АВАКСами.
    И нельзя сказать, что американцев это не беспокоило - они много работали над этим, так что первые опытные способы связи (опять же - по Вашим ссылкам) появились в 2008 г. Но довести до серии удалось только к 2021 г

    - С другими ИСТРЕБИТЕЛЯМИ.
    Из этого следует простой и очевиднейший вывод - даже использование Линк16 на передачу данных дезавуировало невидимку.

    - Именно поэтому на него не хотели ставить передатчик для Link 16. НО МЕЖДУ СОБОЙ ЛЁТЧИКИ F-22 ВСЕ 20 ЛЕТ БОЛТАЛИ БЕЗ УМОЛКУ!
    Соответственно, когда Вы говорите о том, что он мог светить своей 77-ой и это не роняло его боевую устойчивость - Вы, по всей видимости, заблуждаетесь.

    - Есть такой режим работы продвинутых истребительных БРЛС — LPI - Low Probability of Intercept — низкая вероятность перехвата:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-probability-of-intercept_radar
    1. +1
      April 20 2026 08: 25
      Quote: Michael1950
      - IFDL отлично работал на всех самолётах F-22 с первого дня его службы в строю, c 15 декабря 2005 года, с теми самыми IFDL. Что мешало поставить точно такую же аппаратуру на АВАКСы??

      А вот и выясните, что. Потому что его на АВАКС не стояло.
      Quote: Michael1950
      Из этого следует простой и очевиднейший вывод - даже использование Линк16 на передачу данных дезавуировало невидимку.

      - Именно поэтому на него не хотели ставить передатчик для Link 16.

      Ну, вот и ладушки. Однако работающая БРЛС засвечивает самолет сильнее, чем Линк16, из чего делаем вывод, что схема, о которой Вы пишете если вообще может работать, то только в каких-то экстраорднарных случаях
  48. 0
    April 19 2026 23: 48
    [quote=Андрей из Челябинска][quote=Michael1950]- Есть режим работы БРЛС LPI — низкой вероятности перехвата[/quote]
    Да, сказок про этот режим много.[/quote]
    - Ну, вот видите: фронтальная ЭПР F-22/F-35 порядка 0.0001 м² для Вас — категорически "сказка", режим LPI, которым обладает куча западных БРЛС — "сказка", Вы в это не верите! Но тут уж горю не помочь. Но подобное неверие для тех людей, которых это коснётся непосредственно, прежде всего российских военных лётчиков — это обернётся катастрофой — потому, что они поверили Вашему скепсису...
    [/quote][quote=Michael1950]- Я же Вам привёл цитату, где американцы утверждают, что мощность именно та! [/quote]
    Не привели[/quote]
    Приводил:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor
    "The F-22's ability to operate close to the battlefield gives the aircraft threat detection and identification capability comparative with the RC-135 Rivet Joint, and the ability to function as a "mini-AWACS", though its radar is less powerful than those of dedicated platforms. This allows the F-22 to rapidly designate targets for allies and coordinate friendly aircraft."
    ..................................................
    "Способность F-22 действовать вблизи поля боя обеспечивает самолету возможности обнаружения и идентификации угроз, сравнимые с RC-135 Rivet Joint, а также возможность функционировать как «мини- AWACS», хотя его радар менее мощный, чем у специализированных платформ. Это позволяет F-22 быстро определять цели для союзников и координировать действия дружественных самолетов."
    [quote][quote=Michael1950]- Американцы утверждают, что всё нормально. [/quote]
    Так я Вас и прошу уже сколько времени - дайте ссылку на американский источник то у них Ф-22 работает в связке с АВАКС как ДРЛО.[/quote]
    Let's ask a question:
    The F-22 works in conjunction with the AWACS as a source of information for it?
    We get the answer:
    AI Overview
    Yes, the F-22 Raptor works in close conjunction with AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System), acting as a highly advanced, forward-deployed sensor node that feeds targeting data and battlespace awareness back to the larger, command-and-control platform.

    While AWACS platforms like the E-3 Sentry provide a broad, 360-degree picture from a distance, the F-22 operates inside contested, high-threat environments, using its advanced sensors to serve as a "mini-AWACS".

    Key aspects of this synergy include:
    Advanced Sensor Fusion: The F-22’s AN/APG-77 AESA radar, AN/ALR-94 electronic warfare system, and other sensors gather and merge comprehensive data on enemy positions.

    Information Sharing: The F-22 can share its detailed,, passive target identification and tracking data with AWACS and other friendly aircraft (like F-15s, F-16s) to optimize targeting.

    Passive Detection: F-22s can identify and geo-locate enemy radars from over 250 nmi away using passive sensors (ALR-94), providing actionable intel to AWACS without exposing their own position.

    "Mini-AWACS" Role: In situations where AWACS radars might be blinded, jammed, or forced to operate at a distance, F-22s provide crucial forward situational awareness, often identifying targets much faster than dedicated AWACS aircraft.

    Data Link Integration: Although the F-22 originally used a highly secure, stealth-conscious Intra-Flight Data Link (IFDL) primarily with other F-22s, it works alongside AWACS to enhance the overall "combat cloud" networked picture.

    This combination allows the F-22 to kill threats before being detected, while the AWACS manages the broader tactical battle, resulting in a synergistic effect where both platforms are more effective together.

    Обзор ИИ
    Да, истребитель F-22 Raptor работает в тесном взаимодействии с AWACS (системой воздушного предупреждения и управления), выступая в качестве высокотехнологичного передового сенсорного узла, передающего данные о целях и информацию о боевом пространстве на более крупную платформу управления и контроля.

    В то время как платформы AWACS, такие как E-3 Sentry, обеспечивают широкий круговой обзор на расстоянии, F-22 действует в условиях противодействия противника и высокой угрозы, используя свои передовые датчики в качестве «мини-AWACS».

    Ключевые аспекты этой синергии включают:
    Расширенное объединение данных с датчиков: радар AN/APG-77 AESA, система радиоэлектронной борьбы AN/ALR-94 и другие датчики F-22 собирают и объединяют исчерпывающие данные о позициях противника.

    Обмен информацией: F-22 может обмениваться подробными данными пассивной идентификации и сопровождения целей с самолетами AWACS и другими дружественными самолетами (такими как F-15, F-16) для оптимизации целеуказания.

    Пассивное обнаружение: F-22 может идентифицировать и определять местоположение вражеских радаров на расстоянии более 250 морских миль с помощью пассивных датчиков (ALR-94), предоставляя AWACS оперативную информацию, не раскрывая при этом свою собственную позицию.

    Роль «мини-AWACS»: В ситуациях, когда радары AWACS могут быть ослеплены, подавлены или вынуждены работать на расстоянии, F-22 обеспечивают важнейшую ситуационную осведомленность на передовой, часто идентифицируя цели гораздо быстрее, чем специализированные самолеты AWACS.

    Интеграция каналов передачи данных: Хотя F-22 первоначально использовал высокозащищенный, малозаметный внутриполетный канал передачи данных (IFDL) в основном с другими F-22, он работает совместно с AWACS для улучшения общей сетевой картины «боевого облака».

    Такое сочетание позволяет F-22 уничтожать угрозы до того, как их обнаружат, в то время как AWACS управляет более широким тактическим боем, что приводит к синергетическому эффекту, при котором обе платформы более эффективны вместе.
    1. 0
      April 20 2026 00: 05
      Quote: Michael1950
      Могу ещё раз посторить: ТТХ F-22 "на своей шкуре" проверили тысячи лётчиков из десятков развитых стран Земли.

      Это немножко преувеличение.

      - Ни малейшего преувеличения.
      Quote: Michael1950
      - Ни разу мне не встречалось ни единой жалобы?! Приведите ссылку?

      Да было такое, просто сейчас ссылку найти очень сложно - военная авиация не настолько мне интересна, чтобы держать такие вещи в закладках.

      - А сходу, одним кликом?!
      Quote: Michael1950
      И более тысячи проданных F-35, чья ЭПР очень близка к ЭПР F-22, тоже это доказывают.

      Как бы нет. Причин покупки Ф-35 навалом и без убернезаметности

      - Если у F-35 убрать малозаметность, то F-15EX превосходит его как минимум "на голову"!
      Quote: Michael1950
      - И сразу вопрос (на засыпку!): какая сволочь командующему ВВС США запретила приказать поставить на все самолёты АВАКС и "Хокай" (чтоб два раза не вставать) оконечные устройства системы IFDL?!

      Но ведь не поставили же:)))) О чем свидетельствуют Ваши же ссылки, где английским по белому сказано, что Ф-22 не имел возможности связи ни с кем, кроме Ф-22

      - Вот только что привёл ещё одну ссылку, вчитайтесь в неё внимательнее?
      Могу предположить, что радиус этой связи был сильно ограничен, но это только догадки

      - Я когда-то как-то связался с другим самолётом, обычная связная радиостанция, производства 70-х годов — за 600+ километров! Сам удивился!
      Quote: Michael1950
      Дебил, наверно? Вы бы сделали

      Нет, я бы, вероятно, тоже не сделал.
      Американцы не глупцы. И они лишили Ф-22 передающих приборов Линк16 не просто так. Они опасались светить его исходящим излучением, за этим они пристально следили.

      "Чьёрт побьери! В 15-ый раз могу повторить: демаскирует Link 16, IFDL не демаскирует!
      И уже одно это дает огромную такую пробоину Вашей аргументации: Вы утверждаете, что "Раптору" плевать на свое активное излучение, что его сочетание БРЛС и невидимости приводит к тому, что он обладает высокой боевой устойчивостью даже при включенном постоянно РЛС.

      - ИМЕННО ПОЭТОМУ ОН НА УЧЕНИЯХ БИЛ САМОЛЁТЫ F-16, F-15, F-18 СО СЁТОМ 144:0!
      Ну, а вот создатели самолета всячески почему-то убирали у него приборы, генерирующие активные сигналы. Даже Линк16 порезали, хотя это явно и сильно снижало возможности Ф-22.
      Знали они что-то такое, что ли, чего не знаете Вы?

      - Вы притворяетесь, что ли? Я в каждой фразе должен повторять: демаскирует Link 16, IFDL не демаскирует! Демаскирует Link 16, IFDL не демаскирует! Демаскирует Link 16, IFDL не демаскирует!
      А вы бесконечно повторяете: Link 16, Link 16, Link 16!
      1. 0
        April 20 2026 00: 46
        Вот F-22 в роли ведущего, а F-15 — его ведомые. Он для них и мини-АВАКС, и командир, и прикрытие... Но это не значит, что в нескольких сотнях километров от них нет большого АВАКСа, который осуществляет общее руководство.
  49. 0
    April 20 2026 08: 55
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    Американцы утверждают, что F-22 прекрасно работает как мини-АВАКС

    Ага. Только это выглядит, как сейчас Су-35 работает вместо АВАКС, а не так, как это описываете Вы

    - Я же привёл вам справку, на чистом английском языке. А дальше уже Ваше дело — верить этому, или не верить...
  50. 0
    April 20 2026 09: 05
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    - IFDL отлично работал на всех самолётах F-22 с первого дня его службы в строю, c 15 декабря 2005 года, с теми самыми IFDL. Что мешало поставить точно такую же аппаратуру на АВАКСы??

    А вот и выясните, что. Потому что его на АВАКС не стояло.

    - Я не вижу абсолютно никаких причин, чтобы этого оборудования, которое поставили на 187 серийных F-22, вдруг почему-то не захотеть поставить ещё на дюжину АВАКСов. И Вы бы, на месте командующего ВВС США, обязательно бы поставили!.. smile
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Michael1950
    Из этого следует простой и очевиднейший вывод - даже использование Линк16 на передачу данных дезавуировало невидимку.

    - Именно поэтому на него не хотели ставить передатчик для Link 16.

    Ну, вот и ладушки. Однако работающая БРЛС засвечивает самолет сильнее, чем Линк16, из чего делаем вывод, что схема, о которой Вы пишете если вообще может работать, то только в каких-то экстраорднарных случаях

    - Однако, нет, НЕ сильнее! Потому, что луч БРЛС APG-77 имеет диаметр примерно 2° и чрезвычайно низкий уровень боковых лепестков, а Link 16 излучает всенаправленно, поэтому демаскирует самолёт гораздо сильнее, чем излучение БРЛС.
    1. 0
      April 20 2026 12: 28
      Ладно, Алексей, я задал прямой вопрос и получил неутешитльный для меня ответ... crying

      Is the IFDL system installed on the AWACS?

      Нет, система передачи данных внутри полета (IFDL) не устанавливается на самолетах AWACS (E-3 Sentry).
      IFDL — это защищенный канал передачи данных с низкой вероятностью перехвата (LPI), используемый исключительно истребителем F-22 Raptor для связи с другими F-22.

      Ключевые детали связи между истребителями F-22 и самолетами ДРЛО включают в себя:
      Отсутствие встроенной системы IFDL: самолеты AWACS обычно используют для связи Link 16 , а не IFDL, которая представляет собой специализированную, малозаметную, малозаметную линию связи ближнего действия, характерную именно для F-22.

      Проблема связи: Из-за особенностей первоначальной конструкции F-22 пилотам приходилось общаться с самолетами ДРЛО по радио или через приемные терминалы Link 16, а не посредством прямого двустороннего обмена данными в условиях скрытности.

      Модернизация: Недавние обновления (такие как Increment 3.2A и RACR) улучшили возможности F-22 по передаче данных по Link 16, что позволяет им более эффективно обмениваться данными с платформами 4-го поколения и самолетами AWACS.

      Перспективные решения: ВВС США стремятся установить «коммуникационные шлюзы» на существующих платформах, таких как AWACS, для связи истребителей 5-го поколения (использующих IFDL или MADL) с остальными боевыми силами.
      ====================
      Я слишком хорошо о них подумал... recourse
      1. 0
        April 21 2026 05: 49
        И в заключении я задал этот вопрос:

        Is there currently a system for transmitting tactical information from the F-22 to the AWACS it operates under? Since when has such a system been in service?

        Answer:
        Да, существует система передачи тактической информации с истребителя F-22 Raptor на самолеты AWACS (E-3 Sentry), хотя исторически эта возможность ограничивалась приемом данных. В рамках текущей модернизации, в частности, по программе RAPTOR Agile Capability Release (RACR) , F-22 был модернизирован для передачи данных посредством Link 16.

        Сведения о системе и история её работы:
        Первоначальные ограничения (2005–2019): В течение многих лет F-22 эксплуатировался только с внутриполетной линией передачи данных (IFDL) для связи с другими F-22 и с возможностью приема данных по каналу Link 16. Это означало, что он мог получать тактическую информацию от самолета AWACS, но не мог передавать данные со своих датчиков обратно на AWACS, создавая «узкое место в передаче данных».

        Модернизация (2019 г. – настоящее время): ВВС начали внедрение программного обеспечения Increment 3.2B и оборудования TACLink (Tactical Link 16), обеспечивающего двусторонний, безопасный и высокоскоростной обмен данными с платформами, поддерживающими Link 16, такими как E-3 AWACS и F-35.
        Статус интеграции: К концу 2019 и началу 2020 года появились сообщения о том, что истребители F-22 получают возможность двусторонней передачи данных по каналу Link 16 для обмена информацией с самолетами AWACS.

        Планируемые модернизации (2024-2025): В настоящее время проводятся дальнейшие модернизации, включая усовершенствованный приемник предупреждения об угрозах в рамках проекта Keystone и новые антенны, с целью повышения стабильности и пропускной способности этих каналов передачи данных.

        Возможность напрямую обмениваться этими данными позволяет F-22 выступать в роли «передового управляющего боем», обеспечивая превосходную ситуационную осведомленность платформам управления и контроля без использования голосовой связи.