Military Review

Russia ordered a reinforced outer layer of protection for its new tanks based on the experience of fighting in Syria.

240
Russian Tanks T-72s delivered to Syria showed their best side, they withstand several hits from grenade launchers, explosions on mines, fight for four months without requiring maintenance.
Syrian tankmen are very pleased with Russian tanks and thank the Russian people for their help.
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  1. wasps
    wasps 16 May 2013 06: 56 New
    48
    God help you guys!
    1. patline
      patline 16 May 2013 07: 30 New
      29
      Well, not only God help, but the S-300 too.
      Hold on to Syria. Russia is on your side.
      1. Siberian German
        Siberian German 17 May 2013 06: 08 New
        0
        you don’t see any help, so unfounded weapon rattling, but we need to learn from our “Western partners” - no, no, no, we won’t supply weapons to the warring parties - we’ve got a new automatic system and a new RSZO system from Turkey, but here’s new ones to undermine kafir tanks - ah ah ah that they’re taking the Russians over the sea - we’ll cancel their marine insurance, etc., etc.
    2. domokl
      domokl 16 May 2013 07: 42 New
      19
      Quote: vespe
      God help you guys!

      laughing Then Allah akbar ... And on the topic ... Our tanks are really perfect for such a war. Active defense slightly increase and generally there will be no cars
      1. krokodil25
        krokodil25 16 May 2013 08: 09 New
        17
        Quote: domokl
        ..Our tanks are really perfect for such a war. Active defense is slightly increased and, in general, there will be no cars

        Now the professor will come and declare that all this lies laughing
      2. aksakal
        aksakal 16 May 2013 10: 12 New
        14
        Quote: domokl
        Our tanks are really perfect for such a war. Active defense slightly increase and generally there will be no cars

        - Specifically for Syrian tanks, refinement is still needed. In addition to the active defense mentioned above, it is necessary that the guns have a higher elevation (hit the upper floors) and I would also add to this gun the 57 mm fast-firing gun being developed in the pair (as was done by the guns in the modular BMP tower - in the 100 m pair a cannon and a 30 mm cannon, because there are goals for which there is no need to hit a 125 mm projectile, but it won’t take a machine gun), and the projectiles would be supplemented with timer detonation capabilities - sometimes it is necessary for the projectile to explode after breaking through a wall or obstacle. Besides this, the machine gun on the tower above must be remotely controlled - this is not the case on Syrian tanks. And the ability of the tank to work at night - Syrian tanks also can not do this. And because these tanks do not fit perfectly. Hurriedly you with the statement that
        Quote: domokl
        Our tanks are really perfect for such a war.
        - Improvements are needed quite serious.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 16 May 2013 10: 21 New
          +7
          Quote: aksakal

          - Specifically for Syrian tanks, refinement is still needed. In addition to the active defense mentioned above, it is necessary that the guns have a higher elevation (hit the upper floors) and I would also add to this gun the 57 mm fast-firing gun being developed in the pair (as was done by the guns in the modular BMP tower - in the 100 m pair a cannon and a 30 mm cannon, because there are goals for which there is no need to hit a 125 mm projectile, but it won’t take a machine gun), and the projectiles would be supplemented with timer detonation capabilities - sometimes it is necessary for the projectile to explode after breaking through a wall or obstacle. Besides this, the machine gun on the tower above must be remotely controlled - this is not the case on Syrian tanks. And the ability of the tank to work at night - Syrian tanks also can not do this.




          This is no longer a refinement, it is a new tank that is completely different from the original sample. And the increase in the elevation angle of the tank’s guns is to redraw the hull, the new tower and throw out the AZ - this is again a new tank.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 16 May 2013 10: 47 New
            +3
            Quote: Hudo
            this redraw the hull, the new tower

            - about the hull - hardly, but the tower - yes, it’ll undergo ... The new tank is Armata. There still remains the T-72, but another, better suited for Syria, in my IMHO. In any case, Domocles exaggerated that the T-72 tank is ideal for a war similar to the Syrian one. The T-72 was created for other wars and other purposes, when the Cold War raged, which could turn into a hot one with the use of nuclear weapons. Therefore, this tank is not very suitable for Syrian battles - in the conditions of the city, with all of the above design features of the tank.
            1. Hudo
              Hudo 16 May 2013 11: 09 New
              +7
              In the direction of fantasy. There will be no new T-72s or upgraded versions in Syria, unfortunately. Remember the recent heart-rending jackal howl of the “world community” on Pindos notes about the S-0. You need to help maintain the existing armor of Assad’s troops in a combat-ready condition so that she doesn’t give dirty hires.
              1. aksakal
                aksakal 16 May 2013 12: 05 New
                +3
                Quote: Hudo
                Towards fantasy

                - I'm not arguing in this part -)))). I argue whether the T-72s of the Syrian armed forces are so adapted to the battles that they are currently fighting and how they could be improved. But they will put up such weapons or not - I didn’t argue about this, forecasts are generally difficult to give here, it’s very difficult for our politicians to understand and even more so to predict. Maybe here you are right, I do not argue in this part, the subject is not about that
          2. edge
            edge 16 May 2013 14: 46 New
            +1
            Quote: Hudo
            This is no longer a refinement, it is a new tank that is completely different from the original sample.

            no, it’s just a revision (fitting the sample to the conditions of use) or, more simply, one of the modifications.
        2. astra
          astra 16 May 2013 12: 16 New
          +8
          That's right. I would add an increased gun caliber up to 152 mm for an urban type tank. The experience of battles in the Great Patriotic War in urban battles showed good application efficiency. If, for example, the enemy took refuge in a multi-storey building, then the problem is solved with one shot at the house, as a result, the house completely collapses along with the opponents.
          1. poizor
            poizor 16 May 2013 13: 08 New
            +3
            Quote: astra
            I would add an increased gun caliber up to 152 mm for an urban type tank. The experience of battles in the Great Patriotic War in urban battles showed good application efficiency.

            and heavy losses during urban battles ...
            without infantry, in the city - the tank is easy prey.
            1. astra
              astra 16 May 2013 13: 40 New
              +8
              Quote: poizor
              and heavy losses during urban battles ... without infantry, in the city - the tank is easy to catch.

              In your opinion, in the Great Patriotic War, our tanks took part in urban battles without infantry? I'm talking about technology, not about battle tactics. Needless to say without infantry nowhere. I will add - the infantry then had bulletproof vests to reduce losses in urban battles, which is correct.
              Here are pictures of our heroes
              1. poizor
                poizor 16 May 2013 14: 11 New
                0
                Quote: astra
                In your opinion, in the Great Patriotic War, our tanks took part in urban battles without infantry?

                there was such a thing.

                Quote: astra
                I'm talking about technology, not about battle tactics.

                technique without tactics - zero without a stick.

                Quote: astra
                Needless to say without infantry nowhere.

                unfortunately, it won’t reach the Syrians even after 2 years of war.

                Quote: astra
                I will add - the infantry then had bulletproof vests to reduce losses in urban battles, which is correct.

                in more detail here:
                http://army.armor.kiev.ua/hist/sturmgruppa.shtml
                1. redwar6
                  redwar6 16 May 2013 14: 16 New
                  +1
                  The conversation is not about tactics.
                  1. poizor
                    poizor 16 May 2013 14: 22 New
                    0
                    and what is the conversation about?
          2. bask
            bask 16 May 2013 15: 22 New
            +3
            Quote: astra
            That's right. I would add an increased gun caliber up to 152 mm for an urban type tank. Battle experience

            It's time to do it, ((((I've been writing this for six months))) it would be nice !!!
            Assault gun feces 152 mm with anti-shell armor. The angle of elevation of the gun is not less than +40 degrees.
            Russia ordered a reinforced outer layer of protection for its new tanks based on the experience of fighting in Syria.

            On top of the main armor, what will be additional combined?
            Combined multilayer armor M1A1, Abrams ,,,,
            1. astra
              astra 16 May 2013 20: 21 New
              +4
              Quote: bask
              It's time to do it, ((((I've been writing this for six months))) it would be nice !!! Assault gun feces 152 mm with anti-shell armor. The angle of elevation of the gun is not less than +40 degrees.

              Plus, a large-caliber remote machine gun of 12,7 caliber and above, DZ, lathing, devices that burn optics from the enemy, plumb and beauty will come)))
          3. Anat1974
            Anat1974 16 May 2013 22: 22 New
            +1
            Honestly, I’m not a great connoisseur of weapons themes, but I think that the caliber (for fighting in the city) is enough. In Grozny laid 20-30 kg. TNT and then the 5-storey building was not completely destroyed (and why?). The main tactics of the combat use of the tank, crew training and interaction with infantry.
        3. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg 16 May 2013 12: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: aksakal
          I would add to this gun the 57 mm fast-firing gun being developed in the spark


          It will not be a tank anymore, but a monster ... it’s enough to simply eliminate all the shortcomings identified in the battles for Syria.

          Tembolee there is already a machine such as you say - BMPT Terminator ...
          1. cosmos111
            cosmos111 16 May 2013 17: 49 New
            +1
            [quote = Geisenberg] [quote = aksakal] I would add to this gun the 57 mm quick-fire gun being developed now in the spark [/ quote]
            57mm is a promising caliber. The RPM of its projectile is 2 times larger than that of 30mm. If you still make remote detonation. And in pair with it there are 40 mm grenade launcher and 14.5 mm PCV.
        4. JIaIIoTb
          JIaIIoTb 16 May 2013 12: 43 New
          +1
          To destroy a bearded man with a shaitan pipe on the top floor, you need to make the cliff remotely controlled. Well, you just need to send an infantry group with a tank to clean up places where the tank isn’t enough.
        5. cosmos111
          cosmos111 16 May 2013 18: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: aksakal
          the ability of the tank to work at night - Syrian

          Lack of thermal imagers. Eternal sickness of our tanks.
          1. poizor
            poizor 16 May 2013 20: 26 New
            +1
            Quote: cosmos111
            Lack of thermal imagers. Eternal sickness of our tanks.

            not "our tanks", but tanks for the third world cheaper.
            in comparison with the tanks of their years of production - about the same thing, but the "rich" have done 30-5 upgrades over the past 6 years, bringing electronics, optronics and communications to a completely different level.
            the same T-90ms is in no way inferior to Abrams SEP and Leo-2 A6.

            there is no reservation (filler) for export tanks - instead of ceramics there is ordinary steel, which reduces the protection of the tank.
        6. kori
          kori 17 May 2013 14: 20 New
          0
          What you described, comrade, is very similar to the T-90, if my memory serves me
      3. TR-25
        16 May 2013 12: 49 New
        13
        This is how the Syrians perfected the defense, there are also homemade Petr
      4. poizor
        poizor 16 May 2013 12: 54 New
        +4
        Quote: domokl
        tanks are really perfect for such a war.

        just for fighting in the city, tanks fit very poorly. This has been repeatedly proved and is being proved in all wars and with any enemy.

        the Syrian tankman we see on video (the video has been walking on the network for about two months) unfortunately died, in another video his brother promises to avenge him. and there’s also a video with homemade RPG protection - such as mesh and Co.

        the main problem of the Syrians is their illiterate use of technology - tanks and infantry fighting vehicles are not covered by infantry (hello Chechnya-1), therefore they are burning in vain, shot point blank with groups of specially trained "anti-tank" militants who stealthily approach and destroying the tank immediately depart.

        Well, nonsense about the Syrian experience of the magazine ... it's not even funny.
        for many years, the next generation of DZ has existed - not a mounted second-generation Contact-5 as in the video, but an embedded Relict of the third generation, and even the anti-tandem Knife and Doublet.
        Well, I don’t even want to talk about any body kit with grilles - for decades, how these grilles were developed, but they won’t reach the Russian army ...



        and even the Iranians did this 2 years ago:


        This year, the Russian Defense Ministry ordered "urban combat kits" for tanks, but this has nothing to do with the Syrians.
        http://lenta.ru/news/2013/04/12/tank/
    3. honest jew
      honest jew 16 May 2013 14: 28 New
      -11
      GAZPROM to help you !!!

      From year to year, Russia in the Middle East pursues a policy exclusively in the interests of Russian GAZ and Russian OIL.

      What is the Middle East policy of Moscow?

      1. In the interests of GAZPROM, Russian leaders are standing by the mountain to defend Assad in Syria, since as soon as they throw him off, the Qatar-Turkey-Europe gas pipeline will be built right across Syria. This gas pipeline for Gazprom death is similar. However, if Assad wins a clear victory, then for Moscow it will not be any better. Indeed, in this case, Pipeline will be built (a gas pipeline from the giant Iranian South Pars field) and cheap Iranian gas will flood into Europe. By and large, Moscow is not satisfied with any peaceful version of the development of events in Syria. Moscow benefits from an endless civil war.

      In the interest of exporting Russian OIL, Russia has been fueling and adding fuel to absolutely all conflicts in the Middle East for decades. Each conflict gives an impetus to the rise in oil prices, on which Russia earns. That is why Russia is always free to flood the most odious and aggressive countries in the Middle East with mountains of Soviet and Russian weapons. In addition, that is why Russia supports terrorists and leads to a dead end any settlement of local conflicts.
      1. bask
        bask 16 May 2013 14: 35 New
        +7
        Quote: honest Jew
        From year to year, Russia in the Middle East pursues a policy exclusively in the interests of Russian GAZ and Russian

        ,, honest Jew ,, But what about the dear and beloved Mr. PU.?
        MASK ,, PRESENT JEWS ,, SKINUTA. SIONISKY OSKALA APPEARED.
        You are not ,,, honest jew ,,, honest this is pan. Prof .., pimply, Aron Zaavi.
        And you, my friend, is a two-faced g.n.d.a. (((flea cub))))
        1. honest jew
          honest jew 16 May 2013 14: 39 New
          -6
          Putin and Gazprom are two different things ...
          1. Oleg Rosskiyy
            Oleg Rosskiyy 16 May 2013 23: 07 New
            +1
            Honest and Jewish are also two different things.
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 17 May 2013 06: 57 New
              +1
              Quote: Oleg Rosskiyy
              Honest and Jewish are also two different things.


              Do you happen to quote Goebbels? Or personally Adolf?
        2. honest jew
          honest jew 16 May 2013 14: 41 New
          0
          do not confuse cabbage soup with mana from heaven!
          1. bask
            bask 16 May 2013 14: 50 New
            +4
            Quote: honest Jew
            Putin and Gazprom are two different things ...

            Excuse me, gentleman, Mr., not an honest Jew. A blow to GAZPROM is a direct blow to Russia.
            Quote: honest Jew
            do not confuse cabbage soup with mana from heaven!

            Manna from heaven fed you. Again a blunder. I am Chukchi and we are only deer, however. laughing
            Stop disguising, say what you think. Do not disgrace the real HONEST JEWS!
      2. edge
        edge 16 May 2013 14: 51 New
        +4
        Quote: honest Jew
        GAZPROM to help you !!

        go to Israel, you need there .....
      3. aksakal
        aksakal 16 May 2013 15: 51 New
        +8
        Quote: honest Jew
        In the interests of GAZPROM, Russian leaders stand on the mountain to defend Assad in Syria, since as soon as they throw him off, the Qatar-Turkey-Europe gas pipeline will be built right across Syria

        - even if so, so what?
        Russia as a part of the USSR sat peacefully for itself, here the Saudis pop out and not even of their own interests, but in the interests of a state completely alien to them, located overseas, drop oil to $ 10 per barrel. How did this meanness end for the USSR - to remind? Okay, what’s the hi, that’s the answer, now you are in the Middle East cheating on the same derma that we fed in the 90s, and somehow we will still live quietly thanks to expensive oil and gas, which will be expensive for a long time to come because the Middle East burns in hell. And let it burn itself forever, not on our side was the first blow under your breath, eat, you will like it. And another lesson will be, so that there is no desire to spoil - they will look at what you pump them once, and they will drown you in the toilet, they will come to the right conclusions.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 16 May 2013 15: 54 New
          +4
          The Saudis always acted only in their own interests. You forgot about the fuel crisis of the 70s.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 16 May 2013 19: 23 New
            +6
            Quote: Pimply
            The Saudis always acted only in their own interests. You forgot about the fuel crisis of the 70s.

            - No, dear, just in the 70s, the King of Saudi Arabia, Fahd, who was loyal to the USSR, was killed by his own tribe, a Harvard graduate (students are being zombified at Harvard, or what? Most recently, either in Bangladesh, or in Nepal for sure the same Harvard graduate from the royal family banged his whole family and was also declared insane. But you Pupyrchaty, Harvard did not finish? laughing What about the professor? And then impressions, you know ... laughing ) later recognized as insane. Instead, Faisal became the king of the SA, much more hostile to the USSR. Then Brzezinski successfully pulled the USSR into Afghanistan, and everything, Faisal broke through. That you call
            Quote: Pimply
            Saudis always acted only in their own interests
            ?? laughing laughing Miserable objects that are manipulated by everyone who is not lazy !!!! laughing laughing Nothing, we, too, will get them to manipulate, fate, they see, they have this.
      4. Onotollah
        Onotollah 16 May 2013 16: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: honest Jew
        if Assad wins a clear victory

        And before the war, wasn’t it possible to build a pipeline from South Pars?
      5. BDRM 667
        BDRM 667 16 May 2013 18: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: honest Jew
        Moscow benefits from an endless civil war.

        Any war, let alone a civil one, can not last indefinitely. Sooner or later, various kinds of resources (which can be enumerated for a long time) are depleted and one of the warring parties wins or ... a third comes, who for the time being is in the shadows and takes himself EVERYTHING.
      6. Anat1974
        Anat1974 16 May 2013 22: 44 New
        +5
        I am a recent participant in the Military Review, which I may not understand. But, just stunned, what a sensation, what a thoughtful analysis and a meaningful theory of the Gazprom conspiracy. And it was fully revealed by an honest Jew. I think, where does Gazprom’s money go, and it turns out that our hard-earned money goes through SySHA, Europe, the Saudis and our other "friends" directly to the "Warriors of Allah".
        In addition, this great man opened my eyes to what appears to be “In the interests of exporting Russian OIL, Russia has been fueling and adding fire to absolutely all conflicts in the Middle East for decades” and the poor and innocent residents of the peaceful state of Israel put it out, put it out, put it out, put it out. And the F-16 planes of the Israeli Ministry of Emergency Situations and the fire engines of Merkava, even attracted MASSAD fire safety inspectors. Well, they can’t cope with Gazprom. Well, just stunned.
      7. commitment
        commitment 16 May 2013 22: 53 New
        +1
        Okay, he exposed all of Russia. And how would you, “honest Jews”, “honest Americans” and other “honest” seams, be beneficial? Syria - to shreds?
      8. reichsmarshal
        reichsmarshal 16 May 2013 23: 39 New
        +2
        Yeah! Russia in 1967 barbarously attacked Egypt, accusing it of preparing an attack on honest Jews; in 1991, it attacked Kuwait, then Iraq, and then the USA and was bombarded by the SCADs against Israel, then it destroyed the nuclear power plant in Bushehr with an air strike; in March 2003, despite protests by the United States and other honest Jews, Russia attacked Iraq again, overthrowing Saddam Hussein, accusing him of creating WMDs; in 2006, Russia attacked Lebanon, firing Lebanese children with cruise missiles for fear that they would join Hezbollah when they grew up. And now the evil red bear surrounds the ring of the blockade of honest Jews in Israel and prevents Israel from fucking Syria!
      9. Revolver
        Revolver 17 May 2013 05: 17 New
        -1
        Quote: honest Jew

        if Assad wins a clear victory, then for Moscow it will not be any better. Indeed, in this case, Pipeline will be built (a gas pipeline from the giant Iranian South Pars field) and cheap Iranian gas will flood into Europe.


        Between Iran and Syria is the territory of Iraq or Turkey. Neither one nor the other will agree to pull the pipe without asking Uncle Sam in advance (Uncle Sam = US = United States - so if anyone does not know). And Uncle Sam will definitely be against it, because he really doesn’t like the Ayatollah regime. Again, Iran is under sanctions, so Europe will not buy gas from them, even if there was a pipe, and the price is most bargain.
        So learn the materiel. And geography.
  2. GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 06: 57 New
    +5
    Russia ordered a reinforced outer layer of protection for its new tanks based on the experience of fighting in Syria.

    Commendable!
    Now do not forget for this experience to put in Syria an enhanced external layer of protection, preferably with new tanks!
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 16 May 2013 07: 38 New
      +6
      Quote: GreatRussia
      Now do not forget for this experience to put in Syria an enhanced external layer of protection, preferably with new tanks!


      The tank looks like an alabai after a fight with a flock of jackals, torn and bitten, but undefeated. For starters, it would be nice to help the tanks already in Syria undergo medium repairs.
      Threat. A request for supporters of the installation of a tank of weakly protected bucket-shaped supernanosights and other things, look at the video attached to the article what snipers will do with them in a city battle.
    2. Patton5
      Patton5 16 May 2013 09: 51 New
      +4
      Something like that would be very useful to them, but alas ...
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 16 May 2013 10: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: Patton5
        Something like that would be very useful to them, but alas ..


        Well, not really, alas. "Shilka" is certainly not quite right, and for fights in the city it is not entirely suitable, but nonetheless
        1. Scoun
          Scoun 16 May 2013 10: 21 New
          0
          shooting like Russia yelling?
        2. Patton5
          Patton5 16 May 2013 10: 28 New
          +4
          Well, you understood me, I mean that in the same order as the tanks, so that in terms of protection I would not concede. Shilka, of course, is a killer thing and the reaction time is high, but the armor for such an application is too weak (and tamahoki will still be useful to shoot down).
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 16 May 2013 10: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: Patton5
            Shilka, of course, is a killer thing and the reaction time is high, but the armor for such an application is too weak (and tamahoki will still come in handy).

            - Shilka caliber 45 or even 57 mm? Yes, even with armor protection from the T-90? Have you planned to quickly destroy all the enemies? A war? laughing It’s also uninteresting - it’s raz, and there is no enemy. laughing As a conflict 080808 - while they thought about what was going on in the south in Russia, the news “fighting is going on” is outdated, the news is relevant - “fighting took place” laughing Not, uninterested, too fast laughing
        3. ed65b
          ed65b 16 May 2013 12: 34 New
          +3
          In a formidable shilka showed itself. Not one militant sent to the other world.
          1. Zhaman-Urus
            Zhaman-Urus 16 May 2013 20: 52 New
            +3
            As far as I know, during the New Year's storming of Grozny, not one Shilka did not leave the city. ALL burned out. For me, the lives of Russian soldiers are more expensive than the lives of the Mujahideen, so it’s better that our boys sit thicker behind the armor.
            1. Anat1974
              Anat1974 16 May 2013 22: 48 New
              0
              But for some reason I didn’t see them burned there. Although who knows. And Shilka is a very good thing, but of course this is not her purpose.
        4. Grishka100watt
          Grishka100watt 16 May 2013 13: 35 New
          +1
          Che they all the time yelling behind the scenes like idiots ??
          Go WORK free fighters unfinished !!!
        5. Artyom
          Artyom 17 May 2013 01: 19 New
          0
          my bro fought in Afghanistan. Switching to one barrel, an almost sniper rifle of 30 mm was obtained;) and from 4 barrels it made a duval or other fortification at a time.
  3. Vanek
    Vanek 16 May 2013 07: 02 New
    +4
    Here at 3:39, did it hit him from something?
    1. Vanek
      Vanek 16 May 2013 07: 47 New
      0
      Will someone tell me what it was?
    2. Professor
      Professor 16 May 2013 08: 06 New
      -1
      IMHO nothing got into it, this is the VCA. See how the wall collapses.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 16 May 2013 08: 12 New
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        IMHO nothing got into it, this is the VCA. See how the wall collapses.

        Yeah, the walls in the fall forever sparks the size of a fist spark. fellow
        1. Professor
          Professor 16 May 2013 08: 14 New
          -5
          Do not confuse cause and effect - explosion and wall collapse.
          1. Vanek
            Vanek 16 May 2013 08: 45 New
            -2
            So hit it or not ???
            1. Professor
              Professor 16 May 2013 08: 48 New
              -2
              Apparently IED did no harm due to the weak charge. Leont'ev in the report had many of these made from a 10 liter gas bottle.
              1. Hudo
                Hudo 16 May 2013 10: 30 New
                +5
                Quote: Professor
                Apparently IED did no harm due to the weak charge. Leont'ev in the report had many of these made from a 10 liter gas bottle.


                Professor, you have danced a fun Jewish dance - Freilehs, known as "Seven-Forty" fellow . The explosion (see video) occurred to the right of the gun. Where in the video is a humanoid seen from an SSA rushing a tank from an IED attacking a tower? You, catch your breath, taste the matzo, and when you do, think carefully. lol
                1. Professor
                  Professor 16 May 2013 10: 36 New
                  +2
                  Omitting your nonsense about dancing and matzo, I once again reviewed the video, and also listened to the comment of the Syrian tankman telling at that moment about the fact that "there are mines everywhere." I remain in my opinion that this is VCA.

                  PS
                  For your information, IEDs are usually not thrown onto a tank tower, but laid along the route.
                  1. Hudo
                    Hudo 16 May 2013 16: 01 New
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    For your information, IEDs are usually not thrown onto a tank tower, but laid along the route.

                    Really? sad And now, so be so kind as to read your own letters above. Obviously you intended to move out of the topic.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 16 May 2013 20: 35 New
                      +2
                      I read, and what? I will repeat for you. In my opinion, the IED did not work much power and as a result part of the wall collapsed. That's clearer?
    3. Papakiko
      Papakiko 16 May 2013 09: 12 New
      +9
      Quote: Vanek
      Here at 3:39, did it hit him from something?

      With a greater degree of probability, this RPG shooter hastened and missed the tank but hit the wall of the house ..
      The ignition cloud cap and shock wave are extinguished by the wall.
      Hitting the tank looks a little different.

      1. Hudo
        Hudo 16 May 2013 09: 51 New
        +7
        Impressed by the second video. Well done Syrians, do not abandon their own, dismount, throw thimbles of cables under fire, evacuate the wrecked car to the rear, cover with fire.
        1. Mairos
          Mairos 16 May 2013 10: 42 New
          17
          Islamists like zombies or drug addicts. It seems that in addition to "Allahu akbar" in the brain there is nothing left. And they want to create something on the planet? This is a stupid ram to create chaos and nothing more.
        2. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 16 May 2013 16: 29 New
          +3
          Quote: Hudo
          Impressed by the second video. Well done Syrians, do not abandon their own, dismount, throw thimbles of cables under fire, evacuate the wrecked car to the rear, cover with fire.

          I don’t understand how it is possible to fight alone in tanks in the year without covering the infantry?
        3. serjant4
          serjant4 17 May 2013 10: 20 New
          0
          Our school! well done!
      2. T-130
        T-130 16 May 2013 10: 32 New
        0
        Maybe missed, or maybe the grenade deviated from the air stream when fired from a tank
      3. Grishka100watt
        Grishka100watt 16 May 2013 13: 46 New
        +2
        They, with their cries, Allahu Akbar, do not sit down to shit!
        Well, the power of faith, well, the power of faith)

        But seriously, they nullify the authority of Islam as a religion! They have people from the west who have thought everything through)
        I don’t know whether it’s necessary to read the Koran to them, so that they won’t be bred as suckers!
        Yes, what is there to read !!! Dose received and go! For Allah!
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 50 New
          +4
          People from the West are shaking now and still cannot decide to transfer real weapons to them. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia and Qatar are transmitting all this. You somehow exclude completely interesting Islamic countries in the region.
          1. Grishka100watt
            Grishka100watt 16 May 2013 13: 56 New
            +2
            You somehow exclude completely interesting Islamic countries in the region.

            Saudi Arabia and Qatar are driven by Islam to the same extent as these thugs.
  4. ole
    ole 16 May 2013 07: 02 New
    +7
    Well, the tanks say the dying weapons, it feels like the tank is still ahead.
    1. vilenich
      vilenich 16 May 2013 08: 09 New
      +4
      Quote: ole
      Well, tanks say the dying weapons

      Tongue threshing not tossing bags!
      The Americans also announced immediately after the end of the Cold War that tanks suck, the costs of the Cold War and confrontation with the Soviet bloc, and when it was impatient in Iraq, they immediately remembered and no longer tweeted!
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 16 May 2013 17: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: vilenich
        Quote: ole
        Well, tanks say the dying weapons

        Tongue threshing not tossing bags!
        The Americans also announced immediately after the end of the Cold War that tanks suck, the costs of the Cold War and confrontation with the Soviet bloc, and when it was impatient in Iraq, they immediately remembered and no longer tweeted!

        And not only. I remember from 2002 to 2006, there were almost no exercises with the reservists of tank brigades. But they washed their blood in VLV and it suddenly turned out that there was no more mobile means of covering and fire support for infantry in the NE than tanks.
  5. Rustiger
    Rustiger 16 May 2013 07: 06 New
    11
    To be honest, it’s even somehow hard to believe in such news lately. Is it possible that ours began to draw conclusions from the war and on the territory of another state, but in their favor. Yes, after such "lessons" you need to send as much of the experimental Russian technology and weapons there. Learn so to speak "from the mistakes of others."
    Patience and victory to the Syrians !!! I really hope that our smarties will not give you to pieces!
    1. shark
      shark 16 May 2013 09: 33 New
      +1
      Yeah, what would the jihadists have to get, and those who transferred this experimental equipment to the hands of their owners? With all immense respect for the soldiers, Assad will say one-Arabs worthless soldiers. They will not protect secret equipment at the cost of their lives. As we did during the Second World War with Katyushas.
      1. 11 black
        11 black 16 May 2013 10: 29 New
        +3
        Quote: Rustiger
        To be honest, it’s even somehow hard to believe in such news lately. Is it possible that ours began to draw conclusions from the war and on the territory of another state, but in their favor. Yes, after such "lessons" you need to send as much of the experimental Russian technology and weapons there. Learn so to speak "from the mistakes of others."
        Patience and victory to the Syrians !!! I really hope that our smarties will not give you to pieces!

        Quote: shark
        Yeah, what would the jihadists have to get, and those who transferred this experimental equipment to the hands of their owners? With all immense respect for the soldiers, Assad will say one-Arabs worthless soldiers. They will not protect secret equipment at the cost of their lives. As we did during the Second World War with Katyushas.

        but on the other hand, ANY new military equipment - whether it be a tank or an airplane MUST BE CHECKED BY BATTLE! Ours are now deciding whether we need a BMPT terminator or not - so would 1 send a company of these vehicles to Syria, the BMPT was just created to cover tanks in the city, so they would see what it could do. And we benefit and Syria. I agree that there is a risk of losing technology, but you can see the REAL result of using this machine, no analyst will give you such an opportunity, and we need to decide whether we need it or not, and if necessary, we will find out all its weaknesses and can fix them. IMHO

        By the way, here is a photo of the terminator
        1. aksakal
          aksakal 16 May 2013 11: 00 New
          +6
          Quote: 11 black
          BMPT was just created to cover tanks in the city, so they would see what it can. And we benefit and Syria.

          - I can say right away that it will not be possible to completely eliminate the probability of destroying this BMPT with detonation, which means five crew members at once in one fell swoop! The crew needs to be reduced due to automation and intellectualization of the board.
          The second - 30 mm guns are rather weak, from 1000 m they do not pierce walls with a thickness of kripich (25 cm). There is no restraining effect of the projectile. And the Russians do not have another - somehow there is no general line of guns 37, 40, 45, 50, 57, 76, 85 and other calibers. There are developments from the Second World War, but they are no longer suitable. Third - there is no effective system for detecting the enemy in buildings and there is not even an onboard UAV - at least monitor and detect from above.
          So the three obvious things are enough. Here, at least eliminate this, and then real tests in Syria will show. And now there’s no sense.
          1. JIaIIoTb
            JIaIIoTb 16 May 2013 12: 53 New
            +5
            Sorry, Aksakal, but I can’t believe you about the weakness of the 30mm 2A42 gun. Sam repeatedly fired from her various ammunition. High-explosive fragmentation, but it won’t break a wall ... it’s not created for this. And the armor-piercing one quite confidently at the indicated distance strikes you both lightly armored vehicles and manpower of the enemy hiding behind various obstacles like the walls of buildings.
            The gun is quite good and can cope with its tasks.
            Sincerely.
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 16 May 2013 16: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: JIaIIoTb
              High-explosive fragmentation, but it won’t break a wall ... not for this

              - About OFS and there is a speech. I don’t want to look for a link to experts - somewhere on the site “courage” in the “prospects for armored vehicles” section there is an article by experts and a lot of photos in Grozny where they tried to break through a wall of one and a half bricks — and there were simply deep holes in the wall. Do not forget that I wrote about the wall in one brick. But even in Kazakhstan in relatively warm Kazakhstan there are no such external walls! Only one and a half bricks! And you in Russia are not uncommon in two bricks! Can you tell how 30 mm shells will be with this? It is in Damascus that the terminator will probably make a noise: there they have external walls of some kind of ridiculous thickness of brick - 10 centimeters at best laughing
              And yet - I wrote briefly "
              Quote: aksakal
              There is no restraining effect of the projectile.
              - will have to disclose this in more detail. I meant the creation of an OFS shell, but with high penetration ability on walls, with an explosion already inside the building. That is, the shell has a solid head, but the fuse, and even with a timer, is located in the bottom of the shell. Everything is simple - the broads are right on the wall where the gunman is sitting, outside there is a neat hole 3-4 cm in diameter, inside the small broads, you will see from the windows insufficient to even destroy the internal bulkheads, but sufficient to guarantee the destruction of all the scum in the room. But this, unfortunately, is definitely not 30 mm - so far there are no such microzoissors with a timer that would fit in such a projectile. And even if you place it, you can’t place the explosive anymore. By the way, at 37 mm everything fits perfectly, if that.
              1. JIaIIoTb
                JIaIIoTb 17 May 2013 09: 21 New
                0
                Dear Aksakal. OFZ with a solid head capable of punching obstacles and a bottom fuse is no longer OFZ but more armor-piercing)))). The problem is to increase the armor-piercing action of the armor-piercing, so that the adversary would not sit quietly behind the wall)))).
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 16 May 2013 13: 50 New
          0
          In order not to fall into the hands of the enemy, we must plant our crews.
          Beautiful machine. My cat’s namesake :).
        3. No_more
          No_more 16 May 2013 13: 56 New
          +3
          You can safely send. There is nothing secret in the Terminator, a pack of long-known weapons collected at the top of the chassis of the T-72.
          I do not think that such a machine is convenient in controlling weapons, especially in conditions of fleeting urban battle. And sending it would be possible to find out finally.
  6. Bykov.
    Bykov. 16 May 2013 07: 08 New
    +6
    ... Syrian tankers are very happy with Russian tanks and thank the Russian people for their help ...

    Well, thank you!
  7. aszzz888
    aszzz888 16 May 2013 07: 13 New
    +4
    Everything related to the life support of a fighter (tanker, infantry, sailor), especially with modern methods of defense, should be accepted into the troops. Of course after checking.
  8. pensioner
    pensioner 16 May 2013 07: 19 New
    12
    It can be seen that there are fighting strong, competent, self-righteous soldiers of the army, which has WHAT to protect. And from whom. Such wars usually do not lose.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 16 May 2013 07: 27 New
      10
      Quote: retired
      It can be seen that there are fighting strong, competent, self-righteous soldiers of the army, which has WHAT to protect. And from whom. Such wars usually do not lose.


      They must not be allowed to be stabbed in the back. Then they definitely won’t lose.
      1. Canep
        Canep 16 May 2013 09: 45 New
        +5
        Only Russia can strike in the back, and apparently it will not do that. S-300 will be sent to Syria, nor what Keri, Cameron and Niranyahu did not achieve.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 16 May 2013 10: 36 New
          +3
          Quote: Canep
          Only Russia can stab in the back


          Erdogan may also have hit the back with a fez from the head, and the possessed Benya Nitanyakhin, if the owners convincingly ask him to be striped like Colorado beetles. But to help them completely recover from obsessive desires can only a strong Syrian air defense system.
  9. vadson
    vadson 16 May 2013 08: 13 New
    10
    eh, when will Syria have them on May 9?
  10. shinobi
    shinobi 16 May 2013 08: 49 New
    +3
    As a heavy means of suppressing fire, the tank will last for a long time, but as a means of assaulting the enemy’s defense on the model of the Second World War, it’s already gone. The T-72 has anti-cumulative body kits, but it’s time for him to rest in our army.
  11. yanus
    yanus 16 May 2013 08: 53 New
    +9
    I read the headline of the news, then the news itself. Only I have a feeling that they are not "joining"? Where is the news on the purchase / order of the “reinforced outer layer” in the news itself?
    1. tun1313
      tun1313 16 May 2013 09: 01 New
      +9
      +1 The topic "enhanced outer layer of protection for their new tanks" is not disclosed, the title does not correspond to the content.
      1. T-130
        T-130 16 May 2013 10: 36 New
        +1
        It is written: Russia ordered, that is, it will still be developed
    2. Petrix
      Petrix 16 May 2013 14: 14 New
      0
      This news is a trick to activate comments on the Syrian tank theme. The people can give a lot of ideas.
    3. TR-25
      16 May 2013 17: 51 New
      0
      The Russian Defense Ministry ordered tanks for fighting in the city
      http://maxpark.com/community/832/content/1989943
  12. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 16 May 2013 09: 15 New
    +6
    And once again:

    The armor is strong and our tanks are fast!
  13. Slevinst
    Slevinst 16 May 2013 09: 20 New
    0
    who knows why they do not sell abrams and merkav? and the video is kind of old already and the title is unclear why
  14. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 16 May 2013 09: 29 New
    +1
    Where and what did you order ??? What for fart in the water?
  15. commentor
    commentor 16 May 2013 09: 35 New
    +2
    The news is good, but I would like to know where the woods come from. For the lack of a source minus.
    1. TR-25
      16 May 2013 17: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: commentor
      The news is good, but I would like to know where the woods come from. For the lack of a source minus.

      The Russian Defense Ministry ordered tanks for fighting in the city
      http://maxpark.com/community/832/content/1989943
  16. Canep
    Canep 16 May 2013 09: 42 New
    +8
    A guy on this tank goes into battle, and it depends on this tank whether he survives or not, he won’t lie that this tank is good, if he were bad he would say so. This is information for the professor and others who believe that the T-72 is a shitty tank.
    1. Professor
      Professor 16 May 2013 10: 13 New
      +3
      You might think that this man has a choice on what to go into battle and whether to go at all. He protects his house and his family, and as they say, the more rich they are happy. "And one more thing: a gift horse ...
      1. Slevinst
        Slevinst 16 May 2013 10: 28 New
        +2
        Professor, why isn’t Israel selling its tanks?
        1. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 16 May 2013 10: 32 New
          +8
          Quote: Slevinst
          Why isn’t Israel selling its tanks?

          In order not to demonstrate to the whole world that they can also be destroyed!
          1. Slevinst
            Slevinst 16 May 2013 10: 45 New
            +2
            so I think the same thing about the Abrams, while they themselves are fighting on them, you can hide many shortcomings from the world community, and blow at all angles that there are no tanks better, but in reality they are not so good as the Jews blow about them and mattress people.
            1. Professor
              Professor 16 May 2013 10: 50 New
              +2
              Abrams, in contrast to the Merkava, are actively exported and you can not conceal the sewing in a bag.
              I’ll repeat about Merkava, to whom should I sell it? To the Saudis?
              1. Slevinst
                Slevinst 16 May 2013 11: 01 New
                0
                and in which countries are the abrams in service?
                1. Professor
                  Professor 16 May 2013 11: 06 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Slevinst
                  and in which countries are the abrams in service?

                  Australia - 59 pieces, Egypt - 1005, Iraq-140, Kuwait - 218, Saudis - 373 ...

                  Australia


                  In the photo, parting with the last Leopard in the Australian army against the backdrop of the new Abrams.
                  1. Slevinst
                    Slevinst 16 May 2013 11: 16 New
                    0
                    Thanks for the info, about Egypt it’s even strange that they are there and there are so many
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 16 May 2013 11: 22 New
                      +3
                      Nothing strange. Egypt is the only Abrams user who does not have to choose which tank to use since it receives them for free from the USA. The rest buy these tanks for their money. hi
                      1. lazy
                        lazy 16 May 2013 12: 05 New
                        +2
                        that is, is there an option to see the battle of merkava against abrams? It would be interesting to see. you really don’t spoil your image very much, otherwise it’s hard to sell abrash smile
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 16 May 2013 12: 36 New
                        +2
                        Quote: lazy
                        that is, is there an option to see the battle of merkava against abrams?

                        This option is more than hypothetical, but I think this will not come to this. At least they will burn the Abrams from the air and ATGMs. Although life is full of surprises.
                      3. Ezhaak
                        Ezhaak 16 May 2013 12: 47 New
                        +2
                        Strange as it may seem, the professor, saying: At least they will burn the Abrams from the air and ATGMs are very right. Israeli tankers do not take part in direct battles against other tanks. Or they try to do it. They are actively fighting aircraft against tanks, knowing full well that tanks are not protected from attacks from the air by anyone or anything. Fast plane, slow tank. Try it, catch up.
                      4. Pimply
                        Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 14 New
                        +2
                        They accepted, just in recent years, the tactics of waging war has changed greatly.
                      5. Ezhaak
                        Ezhaak 16 May 2013 14: 02 New
                        +1
                        Since you are now in Russia, you should have heard that "once you didn’t star-star." There were too few such fights. And the commanders probably decided not to do that anymore.
                      6. Pimply
                        Pimply 16 May 2013 14: 57 New
                        +2
                        Funny you are talking about the largest tank battles since World War II 8). And if it’s not enough - this is on average once every 7-10 years ... A tank against a tank began to leave in the mid-80s only. Due to the overwhelming benefits of the Israeli Air Force.
                      7. Ezhaak
                        Ezhaak 16 May 2013 15: 51 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Funny you talk about the largest tank battles since World War II.

                        Initially, I am only talking about Israeli tanks like the Merkava!
                        And yet you missed the war in Iraq. This is when the abrams hit.
                      8. Pimply
                        Pimply 16 May 2013 15: 56 New
                        +2
                        Well, from the comments that we are talking specifically about the Merkava - it is not clear. Although in the 80s tanks against tanks also went actively. In "Desert Storm" and subsequent operations, aviation was already actively "steering".

                        What exactly did I miss?
                      9. Ezhaak
                        Ezhaak 16 May 2013 16: 07 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        What exactly did I miss?

                        And you missed the fact that in the Documentary-computer film about "Desert Storm" the same participants in the events did not tell, did not emphasize aviation. They talked more about the Abrams. I understand everything and self-promotion too. But I didn’t hear about aviation. Although, I am sure, she also took part. You don’t understand who to believe. And best of all don't trust anyoneexcept your eyes
                      10. Pimply
                        Pimply 16 May 2013 16: 21 New
                        +1
                        Do you focus on only one movie? Despite the fact that there are dozens, hundreds of monographs in different languages?

                        Between January 20 and February 23, multinational forces carried out about 700-800 sorties per day. The main targets of the attacks were the troops of the first and second echelons, communications, launchers of operational tactical missiles, artillery positions, reserves, ammunition and material and equipment depots, military and military-industrial facilities, control points of state and military command and control systems.

                        The abrams showed themselves very well in this conflict. But the role of tank formations had decreased by that time, although it had not completely disappeared.
      2. rainufa
        rainufa 17 May 2013 01: 54 New
        0
        Egypt received the Abrams on an American loan. am
        So it’s not necessary here, the Americans here they say they give out something for free ...

        http://www.oborona.ru/includes/periodics/maintheme/2011/0805/15077081/detail.sht

        ml
      3. Professor
        Professor 17 May 2013 08: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: rainufa
        Egypt received the Abrams on an American loan.
        So it’s not necessary here, the Americans here they say they give out something for free ...

        "Non-repayable loan" which is called non-repayable military assistance amounting to approximately $ 3 billion per year since 1979.
  17. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 16 May 2013 11: 26 New
    0
    No thanks needed. Much has been written here.
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C0%E1%F0%E0%EC%F1_(%F2%E0%ED%EA)
  18. Pimply
    Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 13 New
    +4
    Egypt receives them under the 1979 peace treaty. Much has been said about military assistance to Israel, but it is not mentioned that Egypt receives similar assistance. Israel de facto receives help for refusing Sinai, Egypt - for a peace treaty.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 16 May 2013 11: 22 New
    0
    Sell ​​to the Georgians.
  • FATEMOGAN
    FATEMOGAN 16 May 2013 11: 24 New
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    I’ll repeat about Merkava, to whom should I sell it? To the Saudis?

    That is, from your words, according to Merkava, you get two options, they don’t sell it: since the Jews do not need money, or just the tank itself, no one except the Jews needs bully
    1. Professor
      Professor 16 May 2013 11: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: FATEMOGAN
      That is, from your words, according to Merkava, you get two options, they don’t sell it because Jews don’t need money, or just the tank itself, no one needs


      Let's discuss TAM (Total Available Market) tanks. Either the Arabs (Merkava goes here only on their own and with their own crew), or not rich countries who prefer more modest and cheaper. Everyone needs money, but not everything can be sold. The buyer may simply not have enough money. Rumor had it that Georgia and Azerbaijan were interested in the Merkavas, but ... Until recently, they hadn’t put up a sale at all. Recently it was shown at the exhibition and then according to the manufacturer with the aim of selling some technologies, and not the tank itself.
  • TR-25
    16 May 2013 12: 56 New
    +5
    Quote: Professor
    Abrams, in contrast to the Merkava, are actively exported and you can not conceal the sewing in a bag.

    And they are also actively burning from the Soviet still RPG, sewed in a bag you can not hide
    1. TR-25
      16 May 2013 13: 04 New
      0
      Quote: TR-25
      Quote: Professor
      Abrams, in contrast to the Merkava, are actively exported and you can not conceal the sewing in a bag.

      And they are also actively burning from the Soviet still RPG, sewed in a bag you can not hide
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 16 New
      +1
      Do you know that half of the pictures of the Abrams are beautifully burning - this is a photo of how the Americans finished off their tanks so that they would not remain in enemy territory?
      1. TR-25
        16 May 2013 13: 36 New
        +4
        Quote: Pimply
        Do you know that half of the pictures of the Abrams are beautifully burning - this is a photo of how the Americans finished off their tanks so that they would not remain in enemy territory?

        What do you persecute, what is the enemy territory? If they fully control Iraq
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 46 New
          +1
          Do you know what age photographs are?
          1. TR-25
            16 May 2013 14: 23 New
            +2
            And from the date of the photo changes the penetration ability of an RPG?
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 16 May 2013 14: 59 New
            0
            Protection is changing, the situation is changing. Yes, it is changing.
    3. ramsi
      ramsi 16 May 2013 17: 07 New
      +1
      Yes Well! .. In enemy territory?!. Here is the whole set of words - laugh
    4. Patton5
      Patton5 16 May 2013 18: 47 New
      +2
      Ahahaha! And they during the operation "storm in a glass" did not lose more than one tank))))))
  • Professor
    Professor 16 May 2013 13: 44 New
    +3
    Not punched there are only idioms ?? (s)
    But the tanks are all on fire, some more, others less.
  • JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 16 May 2013 13: 00 New
    +2
    Tanchik is expensive, because it is very difficult to manufacture. Plus the specifics of the application and the most important area of ​​application. All this perfectly suits the conditions of Israel and the countries surrounding it. But it is absolutely not suitable on other TVDs. And to sell good equipment to your enemies? I think that the Israelites are not crazy yet. They don’t sell it. Professor refute?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 17 New
      +1
      And what exactly to refute? You have not indicated anything concrete. What specifics, what scope, what conditions of Israel, for what other theater?
  • Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 16 May 2013 10: 50 New
    +3
    So after all, the whole world after the fighting in Iraq knows that the appendage, behind the tower of Abrams, is its weakest place. Shoot the generator standing there and the target is ready.
  • Professor
    Professor 16 May 2013 10: 38 New
    +3
    And to whom to sell them? Buyers are mainly Arabs or very poor countries.
    1. screw cutter
      screw cutter 16 May 2013 12: 18 New
      +4
      Merkava is the most expensive tank, the Egyptian Abrams do not have uranium protection, and if you compare these tanks with 72, just put them next. The answer is obvious. 72 is lower, easier, everyone can do it on desert stones, but on soft soils neither Merkava nor Abrams will pass. I even think that Merkava does not have a device to overcome the rivers to ford with complete immersion, he will get stuck in the muddy place.
      And as for the video, the Syrians didn’t leave their fellows, but there are no active elements on the tank (that’s why they knocked it out), this is the first and the second; 72 were theoretically calculated for 10-15 minutes of battle, and here four months without repair, to Abrams in the desert every day you need to beat out the filters with a stick.
      1. Professor
        Professor 16 May 2013 12: 45 New
        +2
        Quote: screw cutter
        Merkava the most expensive tank

        The most expensive Japanese tank, costs about $ 11-12 lyam.

        I even think that Merkava does not have a device for overcoming rivers into ford with complete immersion, he will get stuck in the muddy place.

        For this it is necessary that there are rivers.
        Little John decided to score for Russian language lessons. So he asks at school:
        - Marivanna, but what is the correct way to write "in x * th: together or separately?"
        That, of course, in a cry:
        - Until the end of the year so that I do not see you!
        Little Johnny and glad. Only in the middle of the year did a new Russian teacher, a Jew, Isaac Abramovich, appear in the classroom. He calls Vovochka home and invites to a lesson. Little Johnny decides to repeat the chip in the lesson:
        - Isaak Abramovich, but how to write "in x * y" correctly: together or separately?
        - Young man, if you mean my attitude to you, then it’s united, but if the depth of the great Jewish river Jordan, then separately
        laughing

        72 is lower, easier, everyone can do it on desert stones, but neither Merkava nor Abrams will pass on soft soils.




        1. screw cutter
          screw cutter 16 May 2013 13: 02 New
          +3
          The Japanese tank has become the most expensive only recently, this time, what you threw here is a rocky desert in the spring, after rains, a stone under puddles. But when not a stone but sand or chernozem or clay, that's all, ass. And your Merkava the most protected only in front, and on the sides, above, behind and below like everything.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 25 New
            +1
            Have you ever been to Israel, theorist? Photos in the foothills were taken, if so, and not in the desert.



            And you do not know that with improper operation, will any tanks get bogged down?
          2. Professor
            Professor 16 May 2013 13: 52 New
            +1
            Quote: screw cutter
            what you threw here is a rocky desert in spring

            If the Golan Heights is a rocky desert, then I'm a hedgehog in the fog.

            But when not a stone but sand or chernozem or clay, then everything, ass

            Tanks are not afraid of dirt?




            Quote: screw cutter
            Your Merkava is the most protected only in front, and on the sides, above, behind and below, like everyone else.

            No, not like everyone else. Look at least at the thickness of the hatch.
            1. cosmos111
              cosmos111 16 May 2013 18: 21 New
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              rub at least the thickness of the hatch.

              There is only one hatch in the tower. This increases the security of the tower from anti-tank systems attacking everyone. (Javelin)
            2. segamegament
              segamegament 16 May 2013 19: 54 New
              +2
              and 55 mud bog ...)))
          3. Patton5
            Patton5 16 May 2013 18: 54 New
            +2
            The Japanese tank is the most expensive since its inception and has since become even more expensive!
        2. bask
          bask 16 May 2013 13: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          The most expensive Japanese tank, costs about $ 11-12 lyam.

          And ,, carrot ,, which is cheaper?
          Quote: karimbaev
          to these T-72 tanks a new engine with more powerful, active and dynamic defenses

          T-72 BK, take out of the fighting compartment. Or to the aft niche of the tower.
          Or, take the BC to the recessed space. Like the BMPT-84. Fenced off from the armored partition from the combat. Hatches of the airborne compartment ((kick panels)) are located immediately behind the tower. There you can put the entire VK tank, along with the charges. This location is ideal for placing BC.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 29 New
            +3
            Quote: bask
            And ,, carrot ,, which is cheaper?

            An order of magnitude. $ 3,7 million costs 4, and if I don’t confuse anything, it’s already with Trophy. That is, approximately on par with the T-90, which costs 118 million rubles for the Russian army.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 18 New
        +2
        The most expensive are Japanese and Koreans.

        And to the next hero - do not break rubbish about soft soils. In Israel, the geographical and climatic zones are changing dramatically; heavy rains occur for 4-5 months. Do not repeat stupid strangers.

        1. bask
          bask 16 May 2013 14: 22 New
          +2
          Quote: Pimply
          And to the next hero - do not break rubbish about soft soils. Israel changes dramatically

          Maybe he will pass through the mud but a spring-archaic suspension. ,, Merkava ,, the only modern tank with a spring suspension. The suspension ,, Merkava ,, is located outside and does not occupy the internal volume of the tank. The increased vulnerability of the suspension is partially offset by the use of side screens. And on hilly terrain, the lateral roll will be critical. The tendency to turn over.
          There is no comparison in the hydropneumatic U-2 and Type 10
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 16 May 2013 15: 02 New
            +4
            And you are aware that below it lies not Merkava, but the Puma engineering machine, which turned over on a blurred mountain road in Lebanon. You yourself now bring a photograph where the same Merkava stands well on a hill with a slope of 30 degrees.
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 16 May 2013 15: 50 New
        +1




        A little more template break
    2. Phantom Revolution
      Phantom Revolution 16 May 2013 19: 40 New
      +1
      What a tank, such and buyers.
  • Kuzkin Batyan
    Kuzkin Batyan 16 May 2013 15: 34 New
    +2
    Probably because it is heavy and is able to work only in hot climates. In Europe or Russia, it will freeze and get stuck due to the fact that it is heavy.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 16 May 2013 15: 48 New
      +2
      And again - nonsense. All modern equipment is made to certain standards, including critical temperatures. In Israel, sudden changes in temperature, to minus. German-American engines.
    2. Patton5
      Patton5 16 May 2013 19: 05 New
      +1
      Probably because it was created, so to speak, taking into account the wishes of the tankers, and its use in a nuclear conflict was not put in the forefront! "We" do not interfere with creating the same mammoth ....... there is nothing to compare x "" "p with a finger, the concept of application is alpha and omega!
  • Cynic
    Cynic 16 May 2013 17: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: Slevinst
    Why isn’t Israel selling its tanks?

    You can name at least one potential buyer.
    Merkava as a tank was created exclusively for their theater.
    1. bask
      bask 16 May 2013 19: 08 New
      +3
      Quote: Cynic
      Merkava as a tank was created exclusively for their theater.

      Cynic, answer to ... Did the Israelis install a spring suspension? It seems archaic and outdated. In order to increase the reserved space? Why not torsion bars + hydropneumatic suspension like on M1A1,, Abrams ,,
      With their deserted hilly terrain just right. And the spring suspension resource of 500 cells is no more. Just to maximize the protection of MBT, I can find no other explanation.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 16 May 2013 19: 58 New
        +3
        Quote: bask
        to increase the security of MBT, I can not find another explanation.

        And as a consequence of the crew.
        This is their IDEA FIX and they follow her with enviable constancy.
        Unfortunately, I did not formulate my post, thanks for the clarification.
    2. Patton5
      Patton5 16 May 2013 19: 14 New
      +1
      the tank was created taking into account their views on how it will be used, I don’t see any special problems (except for the lack of equipment to overcome water barriers) for using it somewhere in Europe
      1. bask
        bask 16 May 2013 20: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: Patton5
        equipment for overcoming water barriers) for use anywhere in Europe

        A tank with similar ideologies was created in Europe, more precisely in Switzerland. Tank NKPz. Technically, it was promoted to more than ,, Merkava ,, Line-up with front-mounted MTO, the Swiss chose on their own. In addition to the front engine location, the NKPz and Merkava had nothing in common. The crew is three people. In the aft part of the NKPz, there are no hatches for evacuating the crew. The diesel engine is installed on the left, the mechanical drive on the right. 1400-strong 12-cylinder diesel engine of the Austrian company ,, Sauer ,,. The weight of the tank, at 50 tons speed, up to 70 km / h. power reserve 500 km
        Here is the main difference from ,, carrots... Hydropneumatic suspension, which allowed to significantly improve the ride, as well as change the clearance of the tank.
        Armament: 120-mm smoothbore gun from ,, Rheinmetal ,, as on ,, Leo-2 ,,. Gunner on the right, tank commander on the left. Unlike, Leo-2,, on the NKPZ, an automatic loader was provided. The BC was 44 shots, unitary shells were supposed to be in an isolated explosion-proof compartment. With kick panels.
        THERE IS SUCH A TECHNICAL PERFECTION IN THE 80'S. It's a pity I did not go into the series
        1. poizor
          poizor 16 May 2013 21: 58 New
          +1
          there is only one problem - the "estimated" price of NKPz was 15% higher than the German serial Leo-2. with localization of production in Switzerland - already 30%.
          and we are talking about the “planned” price so far, during the production process the price could rise ...
          1. bask
            bask 17 May 2013 00: 42 New
            0
            Quote: poizor
            - The "estimated" NKPz price was 15% higher than the German serial Leo-2. with

            With large-scale production, for MBT 1000 unit price, on the contrary, should decrease. And the applied technologies for the 80s were disruptive.
            Quote: poizor
            eye on the "planned" price, in the production process, the price could rise ...

            But it could decrease on the contrary. I think the demand on the world market for the NKPz tank was high.
            Many countries want to buy carrots, but Israel does not sell.
            1. poizor
              poizor 17 May 2013 11: 34 New
              0
              Quote: bask
              With large-scale production, for MBT 1000 unit price, on the contrary, should decrease.

              Well, I didn’t count. The article talks about the planned price of the NKPz series. and this is without a brood of childhood diseases of the new machine.
              Leo was 15% cheaper when compared, while in-house production of the series was 30% cheaper.

              Quote: bask
              But on the contrary could decline.

              I doubt it. as practice shows, both ours and foreign - the price is increasing, not decreasing.

              Quote: bask
              I think the demand in the world market for the NKPz tank was high.

              and where to get dviguny and gun? The Germans are so stupid that they should give it to a competitor !?
              and Abrams and Leo are already on the market, with much more interesting “offers” in terms of financing.

              Quote: bask
              Many countries want to buy carrots, but Israel does not sell.

              what kind!?
              1. bask
                bask 17 May 2013 21: 43 New
                0
                Quote: poizor
                dviguny and gun where to get? The Germans are so stupid that they should give it to a competitor !?

                The diesel is actually Austrian. ,, The Sauer, the gun, could be sold by Italians, the 120-mm smooth-bore gun of the OTO Melara company.
                Quote: poizor
                what kind!

                Georgians in 20008.
                Quote: poizor
                and Abrams and Leo are already on the market,

                Therefore, NKPz did not go into the series
                1. poizor
                  poizor 17 May 2013 22: 12 New
                  0
                  Quote: bask
                  Georgians in 20008.

                  it's not even funny!
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 17 May 2013 01: 46 New
      0
      You cannot understand in any way. There is a big difference between preferred and exclusive.
  • karimbaev
    karimbaev 16 May 2013 09: 44 New
    +2
    to these T-72 tanks a new engine with more powerful, active and dynamic protection, suo and sights and thermal imagers, and change the main armament to a newer one and shells
    1. Scoun
      Scoun 16 May 2013 10: 28 New
      +2
      Israel modernized these tanks for Georgia ... made snipers ...
      although this did not help Saakashvulli ... but our Peacekeepers were shot with tanks .... ((((and the tank is really GOOD.
  • shark
    shark 16 May 2013 09: 50 New
    +3
    It’s a pity they didn’t sell BMPTs to the Syrians. In city battles, it’s an extremely appropriate machine. One tank platoon alone is another matter.
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 16 May 2013 10: 12 New
      0
      Quote: shark
      It is a pity that the BMPT was not sold to the Syrians.

      And the Syrians asked to sell? I have not heard, and you? Moreover, before the sanctions were imposed on Syria, was this a car?
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 16 May 2013 11: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: Hedgehog
        And the Syrians asked to sell? I have not heard, and you? Moreover, before the sanctions were imposed on Syria, was this a car?

        What kind of sanctions? The UN and Russia did not impose sanctions, or are you suggesting obediently fulfilling what you introduced a geyropa for yourself ???
        And circling the Terminator in Syria would be nice, for sure, the fighting would have put all the dots on the “and”. And after analysis, it would be possible to understand whether this is metal on tracks, or really a breakthrough achievement of our designers.
        1. shark
          shark 16 May 2013 11: 33 New
          0
          I wonder what the fate of the Terminator is. Like our army refused to buy it?
        2. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 16 May 2013 11: 34 New
          0
          Quote: FATEMOGAN
          What kind of sanctions?

          Well, the very ones according to which the supplies of S-300 were recognized as legitimate, as a defensive, but not offensive weapon.
          And do not be offended if you did not personally participate in the signing of documents by state representatives, this does not mean that you do not have to follow the signed one. I would also love to give a damn about the European Court of Human Rights and its decisions regarding Russia. But, since it is signed, you must comply. smile
          1. FATEMOGAN
            FATEMOGAN 16 May 2013 11: 48 New
            +2
            Quote: Hedgehog
            Well, the very ones according to which the supplies of S-300 were recognized as legitimate, as a defensive, but not offensive weapon. And do not be offended if you did not personally participate in the signing of documents by state representatives, this does not mean that the signed one does not need to be observed

            Once again I ask, what kind of sanctions, whose, who introduced the sanctions for the supply of arms to Syria? more detailed please, and more specific
            1. Ezhaak
              Ezhaak 16 May 2013 12: 07 New
              0
              You, dear, perfectly understand what is being discussed, about whom the sanctions imposed, but categorically refuse to understand why Russia’s disagreement with Europe and the United States threatens Russia itself and its enterprises. Not so long ago, one of the famous Russian companies for the construction of large computers fell under these disassemblies. I’m sorry that you don’t work there.
              1. FATEMOGAN
                FATEMOGAN 16 May 2013 13: 03 New
                +4
                Quote: Hedgehog
                You, dear, perfectly understand what is being discussed, about whom the sanctions imposed

                I look, your flag is Russian, but you answer as if there was an Israeli bully What I think, I understand, I’ll figure it out somehow. Once again, for the third time I’ll ask, answer dear, directly, without wagging, who imposed sanctions on the supply of weapons to the legitimate government of Syria? and why should we follow them ?, only pick up the arguments convincingly, otherwise from your words:

                Quote: Hedgehog
                but you categorically refuse to understand why Russia’s disagreement with Europe and the United States threatens Russia itself and its enterprises. Not so long ago, one of the famous Russian companies for the construction of large computers fell under these disassemblies.


                it turns out that Russia should merge Syria as quickly as possible, legalize all kinds of pedoparades with us and do everything that is ordered from beyond the hill, so that our companies are not pretended.
                1. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak 16 May 2013 13: 21 New
                  +2
                  Quote: FATEMOGAN
                  I look, your flag is Russian, but you answer as if there was an Israeli

                  Well, here you are categorically wrong. If I have some disagreements with the "professor", this does not mean that I should spit on all his statements. So it is in our case. You need to think about the consequences. Those who are, to put it mildly, young and senselessly hot, are not mainly keen on this.
                  And again you are trying to distort, sticking all kinds of LGBT people into the conversation. An example was shown by the Petersburgers, having passed the corresponding law. Now the State Duma is also engaged in this.
                  Everything must be done not with an eye on someone, but with the mind so that the person does not have the opportunity to open his mouth. And that our enterprises would not suffer. After all, a couple of Tula enterprises also got rid of unnecessary conversations. And these are people without a salary!
                  So choose what and how to do it. And empty flags waving - they do not pay attention. Here listen to the videos attached to Papakiko forum. Well, shout "Allahu akbar", what is your reaction? And if you hear Ur-ra, what will it be? Like this!
                  1. FATEMOGAN
                    FATEMOGAN 16 May 2013 13: 40 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Hedgehog
                    Quote: FATEMOGAN I look, you have a Russian flag, and answer as if there was an Israeli Well, and here you are categorically wrong. If I have some disagreements with the "professor", this does not mean that I should spit on all his statements.

                    When I spoke about the Jewish flag and about you, I meant that by asking you about the concrete, you are taking the whole conversation away. bully If you think that from private companies, Russia should lie under the interests of all kinds of foreign monsters, then this is your right, and mine, you don’t agree with you, if only because with the pedagogy and americosia, as history has shown, you can talk only from a position forces, these very deliveries of weapons to Syria, despite the whining and there is a manifestation of the strength of the state.
                    1. Ezhaak
                      Ezhaak 16 May 2013 13: 57 New
                      +1
                      Quote: FATEMOGAN
                      Russia must lie under the interests of all kinds of foreign freaks

                      By stating this, I hope you will be the first to go to the front. And with me enough.
                      And about Jewry. With whom you will lead, from that you will be typed. In my youth I had enough good acquaintances from the Jews. Yes, and now they are. laughing I don’t call friends, because I think that there cannot be many friends.
                      1. FATEMOGAN
                        FATEMOGAN 16 May 2013 14: 35 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        By stating this, I hope you will be the first to go to the front. And with me enough.

                        Of course I’m going and I don’t see anything special in it, my grandfathers volunteered for the Great Patriotic War and God forbid misfortune comes, I will follow their example. But what if this war didn’t come to our house on the threshold, we should help Syria with all our might, and then this foreign world triumvirate will not calm down. The more militants the Syrians take, the less they will later appear in the Caucasus and the Volga region, or even near Moscow.
                      2. Ezhaak
                        Ezhaak 16 May 2013 15: 06 New
                        +2
                        But I won’t go anymore. Disabled people do not take!
                        We’re just chatting, but someone got us cons. May they be happy.
                        And nothing can be achieved by empty talk. As I also said once, there is only one way out. As it once was with Transnistria and, it seems, with Serbia. Volunteers at the front will be more useful than empty talk on the forums.
                      3. FATEMOGAN
                        FATEMOGAN 16 May 2013 21: 40 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        We’re just chatting, but someone got us cons. May they be happy.

                        If for me, it’s not worth looking at the cons, maybe someone just missed the button and instead of the plus, the minus slapped bully

                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        And nothing can be achieved by empty talk. As I also said once, there is only one way out. As it once was with Transnistria and, it seems, with Serbia. Volunteers at the front will be more useful than empty talk on the forums.


                        As for the volunteers, I disagree, and how did the volunteers help Serbia? She lost. In Syria, there were plenty of people who wanted to fight, they would be helped with modern weapons, and ammunition would not have prevented them from tearing the militants themselves, if they had better given them bi-pilots, if only for target designation, that would be the case!
                      4. FATEMOGAN
                        FATEMOGAN 16 May 2013 22: 29 New
                        0
                        and so, here we wish those who wish to fight for a better life
            2. alicante11
              alicante11 16 May 2013 14: 53 New
              +1
              Hmm, after all, I don’t understand why we should comply with their embargo. Well, our companies will be listed. We will blacklist Gazprom throughout Europe. The Chinese will be happy, more gas will be supplied to them at a lower price. We also benefit, we ourselves will develop all sectors, and not depend on foreigners. Solid pluses, and minuses are not visible.
              And by the way, what is the legal mechanism of sanctions for violations of the embargo imposed by the EU, and not imposed by the UN Security Council?
              1. Ezhaak
                Ezhaak 16 May 2013 15: 30 New
                +1
                Quote: alicante11
                We will blacklist Gazprom throughout Europe.

                You. maybe you will, but Russia and its government will not do this. A couple of years ago, Europe predicted a similar outcome and made decisions restricting the monopolists in the gas market. Do you hear this for the first time?
                I gave examples of sanctions without naming specific enterprises. It was a little higher.
                1. alicante11
                  alicante11 16 May 2013 16: 47 New
                  +1
                  Excuse me, but what about the GOVERNMENT of the Russian Federation before THEIR decisions, if such a booze really goes? They give us a list of Magnitsky, we give them a list of Dima Yakovlev. There will be a list of Rosoboronexport, on our side there will be a list of Gazprom. War lists. Who can take more? We can throw off gas to China, and what will the Europeans bask in the winter? Why do you think that we should comply with their decisions and their embargoes if they disregard our interests?
                  An example of an enterprise I remember. And how did the whole thing end there, they talked and everything calmed down?
                  Actually, I just said. What if they crush us access to some technologies, then to hell with them, we will do them ourselves. We are not used to it.
                2. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak 16 May 2013 18: 03 New
                  0
                  Quote: alicante11
                  They give us a list of Magnitsky, we give them a list of Dima Yakovlev

                  Well, when do you realize that this is not a method !. Russia today lags far behind a number of countries in the production of electronic components. In order to at least slightly reduce this gap, Russia and its government, but not YOU, must ask the country for permission to sell dual-use equipment. And they sell equipment that they themselves no longer use. And you yourself can not help, because you are not able to create these lines of assembly of microcircuits.
                  Explain to you what role microchips and other radio elements play in the military and, of course, in household appliances? And this is a small part, demonstrating our dependence on the United States, too.
                3. alicante11
                  alicante11 17 May 2013 03: 02 New
                  0
                  I understand that we are somewhat behind. But if we buy “dual-use equipment”, we will never catch up. Just buying is easier than doing it yourself. And if we can’t buy, we will be forced to get out of the situation. And while we have an old Soviet backlog in nuclear weapons and air defense systems that reliably protect our country, we just need to overcome this lag, and not sit on the "needle" of Western handouts. Stalin understood this and in the shortest possible time was able to make the USSR a country with advanced industry. He had something essentially 15 years from 25 to 41 year. GDP has already spent 13. But the sense so far is not particularly visible. Neither 15 thousand aircraft nor 25 thousand tanks are observed. Nuclear weapons are also declining. New air defense systems are also not on such a scale as the Stalinist ones. And why? One of the reasons is precisely that its own industry is not developing. And the West will sell us as much "dual-use products" as it will be safe and profitable.
                  In addition, I personally am generally against the use of foreign software and foreign electronic hardware in military equipment. Who knows what “bookmarks” they pushed there. And how they will work in case of war with manufacturers.
                  So I do not see a problem in the fact that we will completely sever economic and political contacts with the West.
                  And we need to understand that the West is trying to destroy us. Therefore, to depend on him for something is a suicide of pure water. And buying "microcircuits" for the lives of the allies and the surrender of the interests of the country is a betrayal of both themselves and the allies.
                4. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak 17 May 2013 18: 29 New
                  0
                  Quote: alicante11
                  And to buy "microcircuits" for the lives of allies and the surrender of the interests of the country

                  You are very wrong! Sorry, I have no opportunity. I would make you responsible for creating the very microcircuits that you talk about so disparagingly. And for each failure to comply with the order, he severely beat you afford. Understand that these microcircuits are also used in controlling LCD panels in airplanes, controlling weapons, in navigation, in communication, they are now everywhere, even in your pocket. Yes, it is probably easier to list devices where they are not. This is very complicated, although to many it seems a simple little thing. Even in the 70s, the lines for their production were made to us in the GDR.
                5. Cynic
                  Cynic 17 May 2013 19: 03 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  You are very wrong! Sorry, I have no opportunity. I would make you responsible for creating the very microcircuits that you talk about so disparagingly.

                  Mmm
                  And how does this compare with
                  Quote: alicante11
                  buying "microcircuits" for the lives of allies and the surrender of the interests of the country is a betrayal of both yourself and the allies

                  You do not find that you are using the principle _ From sick to healthy?
                  I understand when for people, in the worst sense of the word, they now proudly say _ WE DEVELOPED 90nm, URIA-I-I !!! And he is proud of it!
                  And the damned imperialists are already running 14nm!
                  They have nowhere to buy!
                6. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak 17 May 2013 19: 58 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Cynic
                  You do not find that you use the principle

                  No way! This is a common method to make a person understand what all this is worth.
                  Quote: Cynic
                  And the damned imperialists are already running 14nm! They have nowhere to buy!

                  Even so. But you did not notice the phrase about the GDR. We were already far behind in production technology. Well, not so too hopeless. Now it’s probably unrealistic for us to catch up. And do not sell! Neither product nor technology. Those 90 bought with great difficulty. What do you want to do?
                7. Cynic
                  Cynic 17 May 2013 20: 31 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  We were already far behind in technology

                  Oh well . Are you telling me about this ?! laughing
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  What would you do?

                  The 80s.
                  Defense enterprise.
                  In the workshop Italian, German equipment with Japanese electronics.
                  By the way, in those days Bulgarian meant a little different than now.
                  Comprenes woo?
                8. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak 17 May 2013 21: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: Cynic
                  This is you telling me about it

                  So I do not see the emblem of the enterprise, but only the face of the Ablizians. laughing
                  Does this tell you anything?
                9. Cynic
                  Cynic 18 May 2013 17: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  I do not see the company logo

                  At the mailbox? Emblem?
                  Dear how old are you?

                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  only the Ablizians face

                  I have a mirror instead of an avatar.
                10. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak 18 May 2013 17: 31 New
                  0
                  Quote: Cynic
                  At the mailbox?

                  Where have you seen the mailbox. As I understand it, my picture told you absolutely nothing. And experts in their suppliers can easily find out.
                  Quote: Cynic
                  Dear how old are you?

                  I am sure that a little older than you.
                  Quote: Cynic
                  I have a mirror instead of an avatar

                  If only I confessed that I would believe a webcam. laughing
                11. Cynic
                  Cynic 18 May 2013 18: 16 New
                  0
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  Where have you seen the mailbox.

                  Hmm.
                  * "MAILBOXES" because of secrecy are the enterprises of our country working for the defense industry ("defense industry").
                  So what is that
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  I am sure that a little older than you.

                  I doubt very much.
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  I would believe.

                  It's up to you to believe or not to believe, I just know.
                  I personally see
    2. alicante11
      alicante11 18 May 2013 11: 04 New
      0
      For God's sake. I say it again. Russia is not the first time to catch up with enemies. Yes, I understand microcircuits at the level of a course in computer science and computer engineering. But in order to become the father of the Soviet nuclear bomb, Beria did not need to be a nuclear physicist. So do not scare me with difficulties.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 16 May 2013 15: 03 New
    +2
    Well, and other little things such as goods exchange with Turkey, interests in the Arab countries on the BV, etc.
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 16 May 2013 16: 48 New
      +2
      Having taken off a head through hair do not cry (s).
      It remains to be seen who will lose more from a severance of relations with Russia, Turkey or Russia. For some reason, I’m seriously sure that the first.
  • Memorandum
    Memorandum 16 May 2013 11: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: Hedgehog
    And the Syrians asked to sell?


    By the way, I didn’t see the grenade launchers on the video, neither for those, nor for those ... strange, such an easy way to strengthen the infantryman and not be used ...
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 16 May 2013 11: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Memo
      By the way, I didn’t see the grenade launchers on the video.

      I don’t know why, but it seems that many people think that all this weaponry is falling from the sky like manna from heaven. Unfortunately, many here are wrong. This is what you need to buy !!! Especially the Syrian army. This gangsters fulfilling the will of the owners often get free. But, for this, they pay for their lives for free. If you refuse to give up, they are simply destroyed.
      1. Memorandum
        Memorandum 16 May 2013 13: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Hedgehog
        I don’t know why, but it seems that many people think that all this weaponry is falling from the sky like manna from heaven. Unfortunately, many here are wrong. This is what you need to buy !!!

        Let's put it another way: why didn’t Syria, even in the peaceful years, think about buying grenade launchers for AK? It is probably cheaper than PMA ...
        1. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 16 May 2013 13: 35 New
          +2
          Quote: Memo
          : why in Syria, even in the peaceful years, did not think

          Well, that is no longer a question for me. I do not participate in the creation of the Syrian budget. Joke!
          I do not even know. If, as I myself recently learned, the border between Syria and Turkey is purely symbolic and often looks like a fence from a net and an open gate, then what can we talk about? They were preparing for a peaceful life, but provocateurs came and raised part of the "dissatisfied" to the war against the state, providing its residents with a very interesting pension.
          Here is a quote: "Men retire at age 60. In the event of the death of a pensioner, his wife and children receive his pension, while his sons receive it until they reach adulthood, and his daughter - until they get married. If the daughter could not marry, then she receives this pension until her death."End of quote. The rest, if you like, is here: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D1%E8%F0%E8%FF#.D0.9F.D0.B5.D0.BD.D1.81.D0.B8.D0.B

          E.D0.BD.D0.BD.D0.BE.D0.B5_.D0.BE.D0.B1.D0.B5.D1.81.D0.BF.D0.B5.D1.87.D0.B5.D0.BD

          .D0.B8.D0.B5
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 39 New
            -1
            Syria was one of the poorest countries. On paper, everything is very beautiful, in fact, everything is an order of magnitude worse. In Lebanon, migrant workers from Syria were about the same as Tajiks in Russia. Given the ossification of the system, the initial stages of the performances are understandable. And then went ethno-religious themes. And this is always a scribe.
      2. Grishka100watt
        Grishka100watt 16 May 2013 16: 20 New
        0
        This gangsters fulfilling the will of the owners often get free. But, for this, they pay for their lives for free. If you refuse to give up, they are simply destroyed.

        But how? Ah poor, if you refuse to give up just destroy. I can only imagine how the Syrian soldiers rise to their full height in a psychological attack, crawling into the room in which the Islamists hid from all sides to take them alive, huh ..
  • Kars
    Kars 16 May 2013 11: 55 New
    +3
    Russia ordered a reinforced outer layer of protection for its new tanks based on the experience of fighting in Syria.
    Today, 06: 50 Print
    Russian T-72 tanks delivered to Syria showed themselves from the best side, they withstand several hits from grenade launchers, explosions on mines, they fight for four months without requiring maintenance.

    Syrian tankmen are very pleased with Russian tanks and thank the Russian people for their help.


    I didn’t understand anything. Is there an order?
    Where is the news about KAZ? At least the Arena, at least the memorable Afghanistan
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 48 New
      +3
      There is generally some set of incoherent sentences. In general, about the new Arena it would be interesting.
  • djon3volta
    djon3volta 16 May 2013 12: 16 New
    +7
    Glory to Russia!
    1. Slevinst
      Slevinst 16 May 2013 12: 25 New
      +1
      is this someone’s fantasy or real Putin’s words?
      1. Nitup
        Nitup 16 May 2013 12: 43 New
        +4
        Well, supposedly real words. And there, of course, hell knows. But actions so far confirm these words.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 16 May 2013 12: 38 New
    +4
    e mine, who about what and lousy about the bath. The professor got excited again shoving the merkava. T-72 showed themselves perfectly in Syria, the tankers are delighted. Professor, what else do you need? Yesterday everything was discussed.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 16 May 2013 13: 27 New
      +4
      The professor shoves Merkava, because if you didn’t notice, his opponents shoved them and once again expressed a number of memorized cliches.
    2. Professor
      Professor 16 May 2013 13: 55 New
      0
      You will ask hundreds of dead Syrian tankers, they will tell you.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 16 May 2013 15: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Professor
        You will ask hundreds of dead Syrian tankers


        Professor, you’re stuck on a "dead tank" campaign.
        The phrase, you know, does not warp, much less from a tanker.
        There is already a desire to answer rudely. And it doesn’t matter who you write about: Russians, Syrians or anyone else.

        Do you like military subjects - well, love, but know the measure. Too easy to rush about death.
        With great respect I read Pupyrchaty, he knows exactly what he is writing about, although I do not share many of his points of view.
        1. Professor
          Professor 16 May 2013 15: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Aleks tv
          Do you like military subjects - well, love, but know the measure. Too easy to rush about death.

          I know what I am writing about, and the gunpowder himself sniffed, although not a tanker, and looked at the parents of his lost sons repeatedly in battle. That is why when they say about "perfectly proved to be in Syria, the tankers are delighted", but hundreds of tankers were killed, but it jarred me. What are they delighted with? We are not discussing beer, but war and tanks.
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 16 May 2013 17: 44 New
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            We are not discussing beer, but war and tanks.


            War means discuss.

            Well, well.
            1. Professor
              Professor 16 May 2013 20: 43 New
              0
              Her damned, in your opinion is a taboo? In my opinion, the topic is worthy of discussion.
          2. ed65b
            ed65b 17 May 2013 08: 13 New
            0
            If everything would have died on the mercans, wassat
            1. Professor
              Professor 17 May 2013 08: 49 New
              +1
              Too many “would” in your proposal.
  • Tarpon
    Tarpon 16 May 2013 12: 50 New
    0
    Quote: aksakal
    ... the machine gun on the tower above must be remotely controlled ....

    It would not be bad if a grenade launcher were added to the remotely controlled machine gun. Then the “Terminator" would not be needed. (IMHO)
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 16 May 2013 13: 56 New
      +2
      Then add the “glass tower" and 3 additional observers to this. Due to the design features in the tank, a full view is impossible, of course, if the crew does not stick out of the hatches. Well, a radar with the ability to select targets will certainly not hurt.
  • Black
    Black 16 May 2013 14: 18 New
    +2
    I would rejoice in the supply of the 90s. Do not fight at the walls of the Kremlin.
    1. Patton5
      Patton5 16 May 2013 19: 22 New
      +1
      It can only if T-90cm, T-90 does not fundamentally differ from 72
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 16 May 2013 15: 07 New
    +1
    Soviet tanks once again proved that even with merciless constant operation they will retain their combat properties.

    I am glad that the experience of fighting in Syria is monitored by tank builders (what about the experience in the Czech Republic ??? WAGON there.). I hope that the improvements will help the Syrian tankers to perform combat missions even better and stay alive.
  • vitas
    vitas 16 May 2013 16: 05 New
    0
    Maybe the T-72 is holding an RPG, but I'm not sure about mines.



    The trouble with our tanks is not an isolated ammunition load.

    Z.Y. Monkeys scream like hahaha, as if a surge in orgasm :)
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 16 May 2013 16: 31 New
      +2
      Quote: vitas
      The trouble with our tanks is not an isolated ammunition load.


      Let's just say any network consists of holes. BC will be isolated, another weak spot will be found.
    2. bask
      bask 16 May 2013 21: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: vitas
      The trouble with our tanks is not an isolated ammunition load.

      I would say vitas, the main trouble. And for now
      VK will not be separated from the crew, the threat of ignition and detonation of VK will always come first.
      21st century, stop riding on a vzvchatka already.
      Only isolated VK, behind an armored partition, with kick panels.
      BC in the rear of the tower, or in the armored hull.
  • alpenstock
    alpenstock 16 May 2013 16: 29 New
    +1
    This is an eternal dispute between armor and shell. hi
  • Penachet
    Penachet 16 May 2013 18: 21 New
    -3
    Quote: honest Jew
    http://army.armor.kiev.ua/hist/sturmgruppa.shtml

    In the interest of exporting Russian OIL, Russia has been fueling and adding fuel to absolutely all conflicts in the Middle East for decades. Each conflict gives an impetus to the rise in oil prices, on which Russia earns. That is why Russia is always free to flood the most odious and aggressive countries in the Middle East with mountains of Soviet and Russian weapons. In addition, that is why Russia supports terrorists and leads to a dead end any settlement of local conflicts.

    Instead of the word Russia, Mr. "Pure Jew" should put the United States, it will be more correct
    1. vitas
      vitas 16 May 2013 19: 09 New
      +1
      ahahah well, and you raved delirium, supports terrorists ahahah bl..t! The United States supports the terrorists, which is what we see in Syria.
    2. Patton5
      Patton5 16 May 2013 19: 26 New
      +1
      Well, well .... Stinky it was necessary to study well at school and you would have grown wiser))))))
    3. djon3volta
      djon3volta 16 May 2013 19: 37 New
      0
      Quote: Penachet
      In the interest of exporting Russian OIL, Russia has been fueling and adding fuel to absolutely all conflicts in the Middle East for decades.

      if you had left such a comment on an American site, then ALL would have supported you there, and most importantly, American readers would have believed that Russia is the main instigator of all conflicts on the planet for the sake of profit. Russia sells its oil, and the Americans are foreign.
    4. luka095
      luka095 16 May 2013 21: 59 New
      0
      And why only in the Middle East? And in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, too, Russia is "fueling"?
      Russia does not earn money in wars. For reference, the United States earned the most in the last world war!
      And what kind of terrorists does Russia support? But at the same time, what kind of settlement did Russia lead to a dead end?
      Your address was wrong!
  • pensioner
    pensioner 16 May 2013 22: 37 New
    +1
    I enjoyed reading your discussion. I know the subject. I’m not an expert in armored vehicles, but I want to quote (from memory) the words of one tanker. To the question: "Which is the best 2MV tank?" he replied: "A poorly trained crew will always find a way to ditch the most advanced equipment. A well-trained crew will make a terrible weapon out of a not-so-good tank." Something like that in the original source from Drabkin.
    But on Merkava questions remained. Is it weak to ride along the Indian mountains with the T-90? At least out of sports interest? Your tank is the best. Must withstand. Or not? And everyone knows how to shoot ...
    1. Professor
      Professor 17 May 2013 08: 55 New
      0
      Quote: retired
      Is it weak to ride along the Indian mountains with the T-90? At least out of sports interest? Your tank is the best. Must withstand. Or not? And everyone knows how to shoot ...

      The Judean Desert and the Negev are not a picnic either.

      None of the sane claims that the tank is the best, most protected - maybe. And as we see, not everyone knows how to shoot ...

  • Tarpon
    Tarpon 16 May 2013 23: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: Timeout
    Then add the “glass tower" and 3 additional observers to this. Due to the design features in the tank, a full view is impossible, of course, if the crew does not stick out of the hatches. Well, a radar with the ability to select targets will certainly not hurt.

    A remotely-driven autonomous 12,7 mm machine gun is already installed on the T-90 SM.

    What prevents to add a grenade launcher (spark)? Or at worst, replace the machine gun with a grenade launcher (on tanks taking part in urban battles), because the latter is more effective in street fighting conditions.
    1. poizor
      poizor 17 May 2013 11: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Tarpon
      What prevents to add a grenade launcher (spark)? Or at worst replace a machine gun with a grenade launcher (on tanks taking part in urban battles),

      the lack of "spare" eyes and hands of the tank crew prevents me - mechanic / driving - gunner / gun - commander / surveillance / command - machine gun, grenade launcher / who?
  • harrymur
    harrymur 16 May 2013 23: 44 New
    +2
    I didn’t know, but somehow I read, here, or on the art of war, courage, a hard worker conveyed the story of a veteran amer a retired tankman from Iraq, as I understood, somewhere they plowed at the oil rig well and thumped, accordingly, not one experienced tanker will go into the oncoming tank battle with T72, without air support, usually the tanks went only after an air strike or together with verts, in short, in a clean field, T72 is respected)))
    1. poizor
      poizor 17 May 2013 11: 44 New
      +1
      Quote: harrimur
      story of veteran amer tankman retired from iraq

      art whistle of the honored fisherman / hunter drinks

      Quote: harrimur
      more than one experienced tanker will not engage in a tank battle with a T72, without air support, usually tanks went only after an air strike or together with verts, in short, they respect the T72 in an open field

      set Abrams, Leo, Typ-97, etc. instead of T-shki - and we get exactly the same.
      sane people always strive to minimize the danger, especially to hang out when faced with real death.

      unfortunately, the NATO people have a much greater opportunity to destroy their enemy from a distance beyond his reach. and they use it with might and main. and this they need to learn, study and study again.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 17 May 2013 17: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: harrimur
        an experienced tanker won’t go into a tank battle with the T72,

        When the Germans themselves, after the “execution” of the GDR 72-eks, issued data on the correspondence of their frontal projection to two meters of homogeneous armor ..., and according to estimates, the 80-k had even more.
        Was taken wise decision _ Do not enter into a direct clash!
        1. poizor
          poizor 17 May 2013 18: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Cynic
          When the Germans themselves, after the “execution” of the GDR-72s, issued data on the correspondence of their frontal projection to two meters of homogeneous armor

          nonsense, of course, that the "allies" did not have a filler in the tower ... and so, yes, the honored folk whistlers will tell you something else.
          closer to reality you have to be closer.

          Quote: Cynic
          A wise decision was made _ Do not enter into a direct clash!

          I will surprise you immeasurably: already in the Second World War there was a wise decision: "tanks do not fight tanks!" what does this relate to the legendary T-34 ...

          and if the troops have means of destruction of armored vehicles from a distance when it cannot answer, then it’s just stupid not to use it to the fullest.

          ps the Germans fired at T-72M1 Czechoslovak production, the results of the shelling:
          http://www.militaertechnik-der-nva.de/Aservatenkammer/Beschussversuche/Beschussv
          ersuche.html

          pps but T-shek had problems - why welded a 16 mm plate on his forehead?
          NATO troops, unfortunately, were always ahead of the shells, and now more than 120 mm of our tanks penetrate their 125 mm with modern shells.
          and how many years after the appearance of our 125 their 105 mm exceeded ours ...
          and missile weapons for tanks was an attempt to turn the tide.
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 17 May 2013 19: 21 New
            0
            Quote: poizor
            and so, yes, honored folk whistlers will tell you something else.

            A small clarification, this is, so to speak, the West German whistlers say about the T-72M1, professor.
            Just common old information
            SITUATION IN DOMESTIC TANK ENGINEERING TRUTH AND Fiction
            http://www.army-guide.com/rus/forum/post.php?topicID=134&forumID=24

            1. poizor
              poizor 17 May 2013 19: 46 New
              0
              Quote: Cynic
              say western german whistlers

              well, it’s enough only afftors (A. Tarasenko vs. Rastopshin) to read - further reading is not worth the trouble.
              Do not be fooled by this Internet srach, there is little sensible there.

              Well, as it were, I would bring a photo of the T-72M1 after the shelling - with a crowbar and a cumulative 120 mm that the tower, that the VLD are broken. (there are 24 shots, different calibers and types of shots.

              about your photos - all modern tanks on board are hit by a 30 mm automatic gun and RPG-7, this is nothing new.

              ps maybe you have a reference, to German experts - just not in terms of Tarasenko?
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 17 May 2013 20: 40 New
                0
                Quote: poizor
                all modern tanks on board are hit by a 30 mm automatic gun and RPG-7, this is nothing new.

                Your words to God in the ears!
                Quote: poizor
                maybe you have a reference, to German experts - just not in a sweep of Tarasenko?

                Unfortunately, two antiviruses and a cookie cleaner do not provide the ability to do this quickly.
                The material was announced a surname and a link.
                request
                1. poizor
                  poizor 17 May 2013 21: 33 New
                  0
                  Quote: Cynic
                  Your words to God in the ears!

                  and what does it have to do with it !?
                  These facts are known to everyone who is interested in the topic, there is nothing secret here.

                  Quote: Cynic
                  The material was announced a surname and a link.

                  In 1993, specialized foreign publications (Deutsche Airspace report, L. Mann, 1993) published test data on the T-72M1 tanks (export version of the T-72A), which showed that its durability is equivalent to 420-480 mm steel homogeneous rolled armor from modern at that time ammunition of caliber 105 and 120 mm produced in Germany. Reservation of the T-72B, the earliest series produced in 1985, is equivalent to more than 550 mm from BOPS
                  this?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • poizor
    poizor 17 May 2013 21: 15 New
    0
    Quote: Cynic
    Your words to God in the ears!

    and what does it have to do with it !?
    These facts are known to everyone who is interested in the topic, there is nothing secret here.

    Quote: Cynic
    The material was announced a surname and a link.

    In 1993, specialized foreign publications (Deutsche Airspace report, L. Mann, 1993) published test data on the T-72M1 tanks (export version of the T-72A), which showed that its durability is equivalent to 420-480 mm steel homogeneous rolled armor from modern at that time ammunition of caliber 105 and 120 mm produced in Germany. Reservation of the T-72B, the earliest series produced in 1985, is equivalent to more than 550 mm from BOPS
    this?
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 18 May 2013 17: 47 New
      0
      Quote: poizor
      this?

      Everything can be.
      I remember well the 2000cm digit, which I actually remembered.
      Then, in fact, I was looking for hard copy of my factual knowledge of the 80s, so I simply took note.
      hi