A little about Iran's air defense, Ukraine, and air superiority

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A little about Iran's air defense, Ukraine, and air superiority


A bit of history


It is common knowledge that Operation Desert Storm, carried out in 1991, was won by international coalition forces in the air. The Iraqi system Defense понесла невосполнимые потери буквально в один день, в ходе первого удара ВВС США и примкнувших к ним стран, в результате чего средние и большие высоты оказались в полном распоряжении самолетов МНС. И те не замедлили этим воспользоваться — завоевав господство в воздухе, ВВС Америки и ее союзников методично изолировали театр боевых действий, прерывая и уничтожая коммуникации к занявшим оборону иракским дивизиям, а заодно нанесли сильнейшие удары по самим этим дивизиям, уничтожив в отдельных случаях до 50% их боевых средств.

Иракское ПВО, разумеется, не было уничтожено и продолжало сопротивление, нанеся aviation МНС известный урон. Но ни защитить войска и инфраструктуру от систематического уничтожения с воздуха, ни нанести противнику ущерб, настолько значимый, чтобы не то чтобы прекратить, но хотя бы ограничить боевые операции ВВС МНС, иракцы не смогли. Американцы настолько вольготно чувствовали себя в небе Ирака, что использовали стратегические бомбардировщики В-52 для ковровых бомбардировок свободнопадающими бомбами. А затем их сухопутные войска просто зачистили то, что осталось после сокрушительных авиаударов.


The Air Force's triumph over ground-based air defenses was so brilliant that in 1999, eager to rein in Yugoslavia (and, in my personal opinion, to undermine the stability of the European currency, the euro, through a serious military conflict in Europe), the United States didn't plan a ground operation at all. The plan was to resolve the "Yugoslav question" solely with air power. Unfortunately, the Americans succeeded, despite Yugoslavia's relatively robust air defense system, which consisted of over 30 S-125 and KUB-M battalions.



The relatively small number of aircraft deployed at the beginning of the operation (around 350, which later grew to 1000) could have played into the Yugoslavs' hands, as well as the fact that the Americans frequently warned the Yugoslavs of their targets, which explains the relatively low civilian death toll. Unfortunately, the Yugoslavs, like the Iraqis, were unable to defend themselves from the American air strikes or inflict significant losses on the US Air Force.

All of the above, of course, doesn't mean the US Air Force achieved its goals easily, effortlessly, or without losses. Desert Storm was preceded by months of round-the-clock reconnaissance—ELINT and AWACS aircraft were stationed near the Iraqi border, and satellites and other reconnaissance assets were used. Iraqi air defense zones and their positions were exposed, and the Americans set up training grounds to simulate Iraqi air defenses, using them to train pilots preparing for war.

Overall, the Americans prepared very seriously and undoubtedly succeeded. But not without cost—according to the most conservative estimates, US losses amounted to 35 aircraft shot down during combat operations, and another 7 lost in various accidents. This also includes non-combat losses, including those incurred during the preparatory phase of the operation, before the outbreak of hostilities. Furthermore, the Americans lost at least a dozen helicopters and 13 RQ-2 Pioneer UAVs in Iraq. In Yugoslavia, the confirmed US losses by NATO were much smaller—4 aircraft and 2 helicopters. However, the US lost only 2 aircraft in combat; the rest were lost to non-combat causes.

Of course, it's always important to remember that the US Department of Defense isn't particularly pleased to pay out death benefits when its soldiers are killed in combat, and losses in combat equipment don't exactly contribute to the image of absolute US technological superiority. Therefore, it's entirely possible that some losses were concealed and that they are actually higher. However, for the same reasons, it's impossible to assume that the actual losses of the US Air Force are lower than those officially acknowledged, so the figures cited above should be considered minimal.

And what about us?


Разумеется, патриотически настроенная общественность РФ с началом СВО рассчитывала увидеть нечто, если не подобное, то хотя бы близкое тому, что демонстрировали ВВС США в Ираке и Югославии. В исполнении ВКС РФ, разумеется. Но, увы, надеждам этим не суждено было сбыться. Наша авиация нанесла удар по ПВО ВСУ и далее попыталась действовать над территорией Украины, но тут же оказалось, что оставшегося у ВСУ-шников ПВО вполне достаточно, чтобы причинять нам чувствительные потери. В итоге ВКС РФ вынуждены были уйти из воздушного пространства противника, ограничившись расчисткой воздуха от украинской авиации по линии боевого соприкосновения, атаками по переднему краю да применением крылатых missiles Air-based. And all this without entering Ukrainian airspace at all, or only occasionally and nearby. But even so, the Russian Aerospace Forces have periodically suffered and continue to suffer losses, falling into ambushes by Ukrainian air defense systems roaming near the LBS.

Of course, the bread of Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners is bitter.


They are hunted and destroyed, and both radars and launchers of Ukrainian anti-aircraft systems are being lost. Nevertheless, the Russian Aerospace Forces were unable to achieve air superiority over enemy territory and, consequently, were unable to deplete the Ukrainian Armed Forces' brigades or isolate the combat zones.

In my opinion, this result (or rather, the lack thereof) is due to systemic errors in the construction of the Russian Aerospace Forces and personnel issues within the administration. As is well known, S.V. Surovikin served as Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces from 2017 to 2023, and it's clear that this appointment followed the general line of our party. According to the Russian leadership, being a professional isn't necessary to manage anything. There are countless examples of this: the head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, who had never worked in a bank before, a journalist and director of Roscosmos, the Minister of Defense, who only served in the army, the leadership of the Ministry of Industry and Trade and the Ministry of Economic Development, who have no experience in industry, and so on.

I can't explain the appointment of a general of the combined arms to the post of commander of the Aerospace Forces in any other way. Seriously, where are the motorized riflemen, commanded by S.V. Surovikin, and where are the Air Force, Air Defense, Missile Defense, and Space Forces?

Но, разумеется, признавать, что наши ВКС не могут воевать в американском стиле по причине нашей же нераспорядительности, неприятно. Поэтому очень хочется верить в то, что дело не в наших ВКС, а в неких особых условиях, в которых и американцы ничего бы не смогли. И вообще в том, что мир изменился, и наземная компонента ПВО впервые за всю history its existence has prevailed over air power.

There are numerous arguments for this view. For example, this is the first time the Air Force has encountered modern air defense systems, even though the Ukrainian S-300s were well over 30 years old at the start of the Second World War, roughly the same age as the Iraqi S-300s at the start of Desert Storm. But at least the Iraqi S-300s were modernized, while Ukraine has been chronically short on funds for air defense upgrades. What's also overlooked is the fact that, no matter how good the S-300 is, it does have some shortcomings. And our military, having operated them for decades, knows these shortcomings and the tactics used to employ them in detail—they're all the same. All this makes it easier to combat them.

Or, for example, they talk a lot about external targeting, while ignoring the fact that, due to geography, NATO AWACS aircraft are simply unable to monitor the airspace over most of Ukraine. Some claim that the American satellite constellation is capable of tracking our tactical aircraft in real time and providing targeting information to Ukrainian air defense systems, but if the US has such all-seeing satellites, why does NATO even use reconnaissance aircraft near our and Iran's borders? Others claim that Ukraine is overwhelmed by foreign-made air defense systems, ignoring the fact that the first such deliveries arrived almost a year after the start of the Second Military Operation.

But on February 28th of this year, the Israeli lion roared, and Americans were consumed by epic rage, and our eyes turned to Iran in the hope that the Persians would be able to repel this unprovoked aggression.

Iran's Air Defense - A Quick Overview


Opinions on the Persian air defense varied, but overall, as of 2025, it looked quite good. The Persians recognized the need for layered air defense and airspace control back in the 70s. Initially, they naturally purchased radars and air defense systems abroad, then modernized them, and then began domestic production.

Take, for example, the MIM-23 I-Hawk air defense missile systems, purchased during the good old days of the Shah. These systems proved quite useful during the Iran-Iraq War, but naturally, the missiles were used up rapidly, and Iran's industry was unable to replenish their stockpiles at the time. Consequently, in the 80s, the country had to purchase missiles from the US and Israel through roundabout means, illegally, as part of the Iran-Contra deal. Some were imported, of course, but it was impossible to obtain large quantities of them this way.

Bottom line: Iran is developing its own Mersad air defense missile system, similar to the Improved Hawk, only better, as nearly all electronics in the system's hardware have been upgraded to modern solid-state components. Initially, the Mersad was armed with an Iranian-made MIM-23B missile, dubbed the Shahin. Then, the air defense missile system was equipped with a more advanced missile, the Shalamcheh, which has a significantly improved guidance system, resulting in increased jamming resistance and increased hit probability. Furthermore, the new missile is equipped with a more effective warhead.


I won't go into detail about Iran's air defense system in all its nuances. For anyone who wants to understand the issue, I'd be happy to recommend the brilliant work of the respected Sergei Linnik. Air Defense of the Islamic Republic of Iran (Part 5)The link leads to the final article in the series, but it contains links to all the previous ones. The only thing I'd like to note is that this series was published in the first half of 2017, so it doesn't include the latest changes in air defense.

I'll just run through the top.

In terms of radar stations Iran sought to ensure seamless radar coverage not only of its own airspace but also of its immediate neighbors. To this end, the Persians built the Sepeh over-the-horizon radars, which were designed to monitor airspace at a range of up to 3,000 km, and the Ghadir radar, which was designed to monitor airspace at a range of up to 1100 km, and at an altitude of up to 300 km. Using these radars, Iran could monitor the airspace and near-space above Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, Turkey, Pakistan, Western India, as well as parts of the Arabian Sea and Eastern Europe—provided, of course, that these over-the-horizon radars reached their rated performance.

And they could have easily achieved this. Iran is certainly not a leader in scientific and technological progress, but, like China, it is always willing to reverse-engineer technologies it needs. Furthermore, China doesn't particularly support sanctions against Iran, which is why the Mersad air defense system uses Chinese components. Therefore, one shouldn't be too lenient with the Iranian military-industrial complex when it comes to radar technology; after all, they managed to bring the Najm 802 active phased array radar to the military testing stage, even if they did purchase parts from China.

Overall, in 2025, Iran had a plethora of conventional, non-over-the-horizon radars in its arsenal, both domestically produced and acquired from Russia and China, and previously from the United States. These included phased array radars with a range of up to 400 km, and the Fath-14 with a full 600 km. Of particular interest is that, in addition to the decimeter and centimeter bands, some Iranian radars use the meter band (for example, the 1L119 Nebo-SVU), which, in theory, should have given the Persian air defense the ability to detect targets with low radar cross-sections, such as the B-2 Spirit and the F-35, beloved by the "military" community.

What's particularly interesting is that Iran often installs its radars at elevated locations. For example, the Nazir airborne early warning radar was located in the mountains at an altitude of 2900 meters, making it a kind of stationary AWACS aircraft.

In terms of air defense missile systems. Essentially, Iran has managed to create a "multilayered" air defense system, with long-, medium-, and short-range air defense systems in impressive numbers. There are no precise figures on the number of air defense systems, but in any case, we're talking about hundreds of launchers, not counting MANPADS, of course.

The long-range air defense system consists of four divisions of S-300PMU-2 and the Iranian-developed Bavar-373.


Iran claims that even the first modification of the Bavar-373 (2019) is capable of detecting air targets at a distance of 320 km, and its SAMs can engage them at a range of 200 km and an altitude of 27 km. And in 2022, information was received that the improved Bavar-373 (2022) tracked a target at a range of 450 km and engaged it with a new SAM at a range of over 300 km.

And here's what's interesting. The Iranians themselves claim that the Bavar-373 is superior to the S-300PMU-2 and approaches the capabilities of the S-400. This was indirectly confirmed by the Persians' lack of interest in acquiring Russian long- and medium-range air defense systems. It's quite clear that the Iranian military had ample opportunity to compare the S-300PMU-2 and the Bavar-373. According to some reports, the Chinese held the Bavar-373 in very high regard. This assessment may, of course, be overstated, but in any case, it should be assumed that the Bavar-373 is at least competitive with the S-300PMU-2.

The S-300PMU-2 itself was developed after the collapse of the Soviet Union, in 1997, and was, of course, superior to the earlier S-300 models in service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces. This means that, at least in terms of long- and medium-range air defense systems, Iran can even be expected to have a technical advantage over Ukrainian air defense systems.

In addition to the S-300PMU-2 and Bavar-373, Iran had a number of outdated S-200s, and in 2024 the newest Arman air defense system was presented.

In terms of medium-range air defense systems A similar pattern is observed. Iran took existing systems and missiles as a basis, reproduced them, and then improved them. For example, it is very likely that their Talash medium-range air defense system was armed with a SAM based on the RIM-66 SM-1MR naval anti-aircraft missile.


But Iran then developed independently, adopting the Raad-2 in 2012, followed by the upgraded Khordad air defense system based on it. The latest Khordad 15 is capable of simultaneously engaging six targets at a range of up to 120 km (according to other sources, 150 km) and an altitude of up to 27 km. Interestingly, this air defense system featured a special mode for stealth targets.

There is information that in 2025 China transferred a certain number of HQ-22 air defense systems to Iran – a fairly modern system that entered service with the PRC in 2016.

In terms of short-range air defense systems. The 29 Tor-M1 combat vehicles are probably the best here, but there are others, such as the Azarakhsh, which uses Iranian copies of the famous Sidewinder and a radar capable of detecting targets at 50 km.

In terms of MANPADS the picture is roughly the same as in the SAM system part.

In the barrel part artillery. Iran still places great emphasis on this technology. For example, in 2009, the 100mm Saeer anti-aircraft gun was adopted. A battery of these guns is centrally controlled from a command post, the guns themselves fire unmanned, but they are capable of firing 60 rounds per minute to an altitude of 15 km and a range of 21 km. Of course, all this is hopelessly outdated, and the effectiveness of the Saeer is highly questionable. Nevertheless, the Iranians possess a large number (approximately 1000) of 35mm Oerlikon GDF-001 mounts, which they have mastered producing under the name Samavat. These are quite capable anti-aircraft guns with a rate of fire of up to 1100 rounds per minute.

In terms of management. This topic has been little covered, but from the very beginning, the Iranians sought to build not just a network of air defense missile systems and radars, but to integrate them into a single, controllable system. After their existing automated control systems became completely obsolete by the early 2000s, the Persians purchased them from Russia and China, and also produced them themselves. From Russia, they received at least the Senezh-M1E (supplied alongside the S-200VE SAM system), the Baikal-1ME (S-300PMU-2), and likely the Ranzhir-M1 (Tor-M2E SAM system and Pantsir-S1E SAM/GPS system).

In terms of radio-technical reconnaissance and EW. This may seem strange, but Iran has made significant progress in this area as well. For example, in 2012, the Iranian television channel IRIB reported that 1L122 "Avtobaza" electronic reconnaissance stations were used during major air defense exercises. This station is a passive detection system that is not easily detected by radar. The "Avtobaza" is capable of detecting aircraft electronic systems and determining the coordinates of enemy aircraft and UAVs, as well as automatically transmitting this data to air defense missile systems, headquarters, and other locations. The Iranians clearly liked the idea, and as a result, they adopted their own equivalent of the "Avtobaza," the Alim.

As for electronic warfare, American intelligence officers, flying along the borders of Iran, repeatedly encountered radiation that very skillfully interfered with their work, which is why Iran’s electronic warfare capabilities were highly valued in the United States.

In terms of combat experience. By the start of "Epic Fury," the Iranians had some experience in air defense. First, the Iran-Iraq War of 1980-1988, and second, the twelve-day war of June 3-24, 2025. Not much, but Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners didn't have even that much at the start of the Central Military District.

Advantages and disadvantages of Iran's air defense


I certainly don't want the esteemed reader to form the impression, based on all of the above, that Iran's air defense system is some sort of supremely powerful force. It's anything but. An undeniable advantage is that Iran's leadership has devoted considerable attention to this branch of the armed forces, which was obviously due in part to the impossibility of building a modern air force due to sanctions. Cooperation with Russia and China has been very beneficial for Iran, especially the latter, as a significant portion of the components of Iranian systems clearly originate from China.

In my opinion, the advantages of Iran's air defense are:

1. Own industrial base;

2. A powerful network of ground-based radars;

3. The latest Iranian air defense systems are of very high quality, despite the fact that even older models are capable of creating problems for modern aviation;

4. A good combination of long-, medium- and short-range air defense systems with effective small-caliber artillery and MANPADS;

5. Availability of ELINT, electronic warfare, automated control systems, even if some of these are in insufficient quantities or outdated;

6. Combat experience, even if outdated and limited.

But along with this, there are also serious disadvantages:

1. The diversity of weapons and systems. I believe this is a real scourge for Iran's air defense, which is armed with systems from both domestic production and American, Russian, and Chinese manufacturers. Importantly, even domestically produced systems, based on completely different imported counterparts, are unlikely to be compatible with each other. The vast number of radars, air defense systems, and other equipment in Iran's air defense arsenal likely creates numerous problems in terms of personnel training, logistics, information transfer, and command and control. All this could lead to insufficient familiarity with the equipment by maintenance personnel and a low technical readiness rate. It would probably be safe to assume that, despite the well-known efforts to organize command and control and the implementation of automated control systems, Iran's air defense system consists of a collection of quite capable weapons that are incapable of functioning as a unified system. Or, at least, incapable of functioning as a system against a high-tech adversary like the United States and Israel.

2. Lack of an airborne air defense component. Attempts to modify and use Iraqi aircraft flown to Iran during Desert Storm as AWACS aircraft were unsuccessful, so the Persian state has no "flying radars." The problem with fighter-interceptors is virtually the same, as the best fighters Iran currently has are the early-production MiG-29s, and they are completely uncompetitive with the multirole fighters of developed countries.


The situation could have been somewhat improved by the delivery of Su-35S, but these aircraft arrived in Iran only recently, and Iranian pilots clearly have not had time to get used to them.

3. The extreme weakness of the Iranian Air Force. On the one hand, this seems to be a problem with the Air Force, not the Air Defense. However, it should be noted that the completely outdated equipment of the Persian Air Force leads to stagnation in the theory of aerial warfare and the inability to test modern tactical techniques through combat-like exercises. In other words, the stagnation in the development of the Air Force inevitably affects the quality of the Air Defense.

Now let's see how Iran's Air Force and Air Defense performed during the current war and whether Iran can win it or at least achieve peace on terms acceptable to itself.

Продолжение следует ...
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  1. + 11
    April 7 2026 05: 33
    совершенно очевидно, что это назначение продолжало генеральную линию нашей партии. По мнению руководства РФ, для того чтобы управлять чем-либо, профессионалом быть вовсе не обязательно. Примеров тому громадье: и руководитель Центрального Банка РФ, которая до этого в своей трудовой деятельности ни разу в банке не работала, и журналист-директор «Роскосмоса», и министр обороны, который только срочную в армии служил, руководство Минпромторга и Минэкономразвития, не имеющие опыта в промышленности и т. д. и т. п.
    good
    Nothing personal...
    Mr. PeZhe
  2. + 15
    April 7 2026 05: 39
    As is well known, S.V. Surovikin served as Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces from 2017 to 2023, and it's clear that this appointment followed the general line of our party. According to the Russian leadership, being a professional isn't necessary to manage anything.

    Comrades, without touching on the personality of the Aerospace Forces commander, even the USSR never created a unit like Wild Weasel. There were anti-radar missiles, electronic warfare pods, ELINT aircraft, even aircraft built with stealth technology, but there were no coordinated units tasked with suppressing air defenses and hunting down SAM crews. In other words, there were elements, but no one assembled them into a single unit. Moreover, the flight crews were completely inept at using what they already had. Tales of how the Khibiny missiles jammed a destroyer's radar turned into the prose of the Khibiny missiles' inability to jam their own S-300 and Buk missiles, even though it would seem that they could have been used to test all countermeasures. What could Surovikin have done if it would take years to form such a unit?
    1. + 12
      April 7 2026 05: 52
      Товарищи, не касаясь личности командующего ВКС, но даже в СССР не было создано подразделения типа Wild Weasel. ... если на формирование такого подразделения нужны годы
      To create a Wild Weasel, you first need to engage in a battle with an enemy with powerful air defense, but there were none.
      Был один "тревожный звоночек" - "Грузия 2008", но...
      And in general, the traditional domestic "unparalleled in the world" way of solving any problem: as in the joke "open the first envelope - and there's a note"вали все на прошлое руководство. ""
      lol
      1. + 10
        April 7 2026 06: 05
        Quote: Wildcat
        To create a Wild Weasel, you first need to engage in a battle with an enemy with powerful air defense, but there were none.

        A rather controversial thesis. If I'm not going to swim in the ocean, then I shouldn't even go into a pool?
        Если есть компоненты созданные для подавления ПВО, то почему бы не собрать их вместе и потренироваться хотя бы на "кошках" (своем ПВО)? И атакующая сторона опыт получит и обороняющаяся?
        Quote: Wildcat
        Open the first envelope and there's a note saying "blame it all on the previous management"

        Can't argue with that...
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +2
          April 7 2026 21: 48
          A rather controversial thesis. If I'm not going to swim in the ocean, then I shouldn't even go into a pool?
          Если есть компоненты созданные для подавления ПВО, то почему бы не собрать их вместе и потренироваться хотя бы на "кошках" (своем ПВО)? И атакующая сторона опыт получит и обороняющаяся?

          Hmm, I hope the previous post wasn't deleted because of the mention of Mara...
          request
          Кратко: после историй на Ближнем Востоке все же в Мары был создан центр (1521-й Центр боевого применения (ЦБП) ВВС СССР (или 1521-я авиабаза)), где истребителей "натаскивали", причем как описывается в мемуарной литературе, не только в индивидуальном плане, но и в учениях "полк - на полк".
          good
          This did not happen with the SEAD, because there was no sad experience of breaking through the air defense.
          А у кого он был, те готовили соответствующие полигоны и школы, как "ТопГан", только для СЕАД.
          Linnik wrote a lot about this on VO, for example:
          https://topwar.ru/147639-sovetskaja-i-rossijskaja-voennaja-tehnika-v-vooruzhennyh-silah-i-ispytatelnyh-centrah-ssha.html
      2. + 13
        April 7 2026 06: 31
        Quote: Wildcat
        как в анекдоте "открывай первый конверт - а там записка "вали все на прошлое руководство.""
        For the current Guarantor, the previous leadership is a sham, under which they themselves were not the last person in power. And the next in line is themselves. Who should we blame? EBN, who's been a fly in the ointment for over a quarter of a century? Or the communists themselves? Oh! That damned tsarist past!
        1. +6
          April 7 2026 08: 47
          Quote: Nagan
          Quote: Wildcat
          как в анекдоте "открывай первый конверт - а там записка "вали все на прошлое руководство.""
          For the current Guarantor, the previous leadership is a sham, under which they themselves were not the last person in power. And the next in line is themselves. Who should we blame? EBN, who's been a fly in the ointment for over a quarter of a century? Or the communists themselves? Oh! That damned tsarist past!


          When you don't know who to blame, remember the Soviet proverb: if there's no water in the tap, it's been drunk...
          1. 0
            April 8 2026 09: 22
            Vokom77 is rude; we do everything more elegantly, according to the Paers principle: "If the law is on your side, push the law. If the facts are on your side, push the facts. If you have neither, push the table."
        2. +7
          April 7 2026 10: 14
          НА половцев с печенегами и на Ленина с бонбой.""""""
      3. + 13
        April 7 2026 07: 38
        Quote: Wildcat
        To create a Wild Weasel, you first need to engage in a battle with an enemy with powerful air defense, but there were none.

        During WWII, we rethought our flawed aviation tactics only by 43, and that was thanks to grassroots initiatives and a study of enemy air warfare tactics, including interrogations of captured pilots. Our ground forces, however, never grasped the importance of aviation in modern warfare, and this remains the case to this day. The Aerospace Forces remain an appendage to the ground forces. They cannot act independently. Look at how the destruction of targets in Ukraine is going on. They send Kalibr missiles, spreading them across the entire 404, then start using Geranium missiles, but never once has there been a joint operation to overwhelm the Ukrainian Armed Forces' long-range air defense systems. Geraniums, Kalibr missiles, and Iskander missiles are used against targets, while aircraft simultaneously attack the air defense system, which should be very active at that time. No, we'll just fire a single Iskander at a "temporary deployment site" and report back...
        1. +9
          April 7 2026 13: 12
          Our troop organization is absolutely rubbish. The most we can do is integrate a battalion. A combined arms operation is simply unrealistic; degenerates can't even figure things out in their own brigades, and here we need to establish cooperation with other degenerates. what
          1. +5
            April 7 2026 13: 20
            Quote from alexoff
            Our troop organization is absolutely rubbish. The most we can do is integrate a battalion. A combined arms operation is simply unrealistic; degenerates can't even figure things out in their own brigades, and here we need to establish cooperation with other degenerates. what

            I completely agree...it seems that after Mariupol even the interaction of two battalions cannot be ensured
            1. +8
              April 7 2026 15: 00
              У наших военных руководителей подход один - дайте бойцу распрекрасный самолет-танк-калаш и пусть он, орёл, всех победит. А тщ генерал пойдет перед зеркалом на медали любоваться и перед другими генералами хлебалом торговать.
              И так не только в армии, так кажется во всех сферах request
      4. +4
        April 7 2026 13: 42
        Мне кажется в том то и проблема советской армии была - всю холодную войну непосредственно мы сами не имели опыта ведения военных действий с развитым противником. Просто когда участвуют только советники и идёт поставка техники всегда можно успокоить себя, что паспортные характеристики изделий и тактика идеальны, просто местные «руковзадые папуасы»… на память приходит разве что один случай (полумифический) когда это было не так - бой МиГов с израильтянам над Египтом , но и там все закончилось не очень.
        As for the Americans, they certainly learned a lot from Vietnam - radar hunters, high-precision weapons instead of tons of "iron," and so on and so forth, but they also have their share of mistakes, like the 2002 exercises (although the "red" general was more of a PR man there).
      5. +5
        April 7 2026 15: 45
        Quote: Wildcat
        To create a Wild Weasel, you first need to engage in a battle with an enemy with powerful air defense, but there were none.

        The discussion was about the USSR Air Force.
        Quote: Puncher
        Товарищи, не касаясь личности командующего ВКС, но даже в СССР не было создано подразделения типа Wild Weasel.

        The Soviet Air Force had an enemy with strong air defense throughout the post-war period - aggressive NATO bloc. И опыт прорыва системы ПВО был. Правда, с другой стороны прицела - Вьетнам и Ближний Восток. А Wild Weasel - не было.
        Quote: Wildcat
        Был один "тревожный звоночек" - "Грузия 2008", но...

        In Georgia, there were so many "alarm bells" in the Air Force that the need to organize units to suppress enemy air defenses was lost in the background. epic failure разведки чего стоил - когда о наличии у Грузии "Буков" узнали не из опубликованного до войны доклада ООН о торговле вооружениями, а только постфактум, после захвата ЗРК.
        And yes, after the Air Force spent several days searching for a living "Phantasmagoria" to snipe the radar in Gori, what Wild Weasel could there be... sad
    2. +9
      April 7 2026 09: 43
      Quote: Puncher
      Что мог сделать Суровикин если на формирование такого подразделения нужны годы?

      He could have voiced the problem, outlined solutions, and at least begun to change this negative situation. But to do so, first, he needed an understanding of the problem's existence, something that was absent throughout the history of the USSR and the Russian Federation.
      1. +6
        April 7 2026 20: 46
        From my life experience, mine and others, the problem can be solved like this
        1) Don't tell your superiors, figure it out yourself, possibly with zero success
        2) Tell your boss, let them tell you what a clumsy scoundrel you are, blaming your problems on them. Then you'll have to deal with it yourself, only to have your boss come and nag you—"So, did you solve the problem?"
        We have few people who lead something and help solve problems without dumping a bucket of slop request
        1. +3
          April 8 2026 09: 21
          Мой личный опыт говорит, что вы, в данном вопросе, полностью правы. Доложить о проблеме, это навлечь на свою опу геморрой. При этом, не получив ни какой помощи поддержки, огрести пиз...ля от начальства и задачу решить вопрос, не напрягая это самое начальство. Отсюда и все эти доклады, не соответствующие реальному положению дел. Опять таки, по своему опыту, лучше не доложить, ибо может рассосётся, потеряет актуальность. А если докопаются, то получишь ровно столько же как и при докладе. Так зачем заранее себе делать больно.
          1. 0
            April 8 2026 10: 46
            Quote: qqqq
            Again, from my experience, it’s better not to report it, because it may dissipate and lose its relevance.

            Air Defense - Wait, Carry Out, They'll Cancel. smile
            Quote: qqqq
            And if they find fault, you'll get exactly the same punishment as when you reported it. So why hurt yourself in advance?

            Ну да: "А если не видно разницы, зачем to pay do more
    3. +5
      April 8 2026 00: 35
      Quote: Puncher
      What could Surovikin do?

      I absolutely agree.
      Although I am not a supporter of appointing a "shoemaker" general to command the pilots.
      Hypothetically. Imagine asking an American general, the "victor of Iraq and Yugoslavia," to establish an A2/AD zone over Ukraine. A week after taking office, he'll say it's impossible with current forces and resources.
      2 Su-35S regiments, a Su-57 squadron, five A-50s, two reconnaissance aircraft????? And that's all?
      Нет, скажет, американский генерал, так дела не делаются.
      Where's the intelligence, the satellites, the troop command? Where are the thousands of modern aircraft?

      Вывод простой. Никто не планировал в 2022 году воевать с Украиной по-серьезному. А тем более со всем НАТО. Планировалась полицейская операция со сменой власти на Украине на лояльную РФ.
      But what happened, happened. And now we should be grateful to Putin for launching the Second Military District. Because we'd still be looking through rose-colored glasses, thinking that the "Second Army in the World" is a force to be reckoned with. And now we see that our paratroopers are the best in the world, but overall, our Armed Forces are only fit for tank biathlons.
      1. +4
        April 8 2026 11: 02
        Quote: BABAY22
        Вывод простой. Никто не планировал в 2022 году воевать с Украиной по-серьезному. А тем более со всем НАТО. Планировалась полицейская операция со сменой власти на Украине на лояльную РФ.

        Well, yes... either the authorities succumbed to their own propaganda.fraternal pro-Russian people oppressed by a group of evil Banderites who appeared out of nowhere", то ли лица, принимающие решения, реально считали так с 2014 года, некритически перенеся ситуацию в Крыму и Новороссии на всю Украину.
        In short, it turned out to be another Soviet-Finnish war.
        The harmful prejudice was deeply rooted that the supposedly population of the countries entering the war with the USSR would inevitably, almost without exception, rise and go over to the side of the Red Army, that the workers and peasants would meet us with flowers. This false belief arises from ignorance of the actual situation in neighboring countries. The war in Finland showed that we did not conduct political intelligence in the northern regions and therefore did not know with what slogans to go to this population and how to conduct work among them. We often treated peasants as a working class, but it turns out that this peasant is a big fist, a Shutskorovets, and he reacts in his own way. Collision with reality demagnetizes our fighter and commander, who is used to viewing the population of foreign countries from a general - superficial point of view. We need to know what the population of this or that country lives and is interested in.

        It must be said that in the field of the political study of the enemy we have made more than one mistake and we have small achievements in work among the troops and population of the enemy.
        © Speech by L. 3. Mehlis at a meeting on ideological work in the army and navy on May 13, 1940
        1. 0
          April 8 2026 19: 08
          Собственно, история циклична. В 1899-1900 г. РИА легко размотала армию императорского Китая, заполучив Маньчжурию (под 2 млн кв.км, которая де факто уже была включена в состав Росс. империи, даже доводилось видеть карту 1903 года, на которой она закрашена в зеленый имперский цвет того времени). На этом радостном фоне решили "сможем повторить" в намечавшемся конфликте с Японией. В итоге обоcpались во многом от того, что в отличие от Китая, где действовали в рамках общей западной коалиции, в войне с Японией пришлось воевать не только с джапами, но и со стоявшими за их спиной англосаксами.

          The events of 2014 and 2022 are almost an exact reproduction of what happened 115 years earlier.
    4. 0
      Yesterday, 06: 48
      "What could Surovikin do if it takes years to form such a unit?" Resign!
  3. 0
    April 7 2026 05: 42
    Общеизвестно, что операция «Буря в пустыне», проведенная в 1991 г., была выиграна международными коалиционными силами в воздухе.
    Общеизвестно, что ни одна операция не выигрывалась "в воздухе", всегда требовалась наземная операция, в части Бури в Пустыне - не совсем удачная "100 часов".
    Американцы настолько вольготно чувствовали себя в небе Ирака, что использовали стратегические бомбардировщики В-52 для ковровых бомбардировок свободнопадающими бомбами. А затем их сухопутные войска просто зачистили то, что осталось после сокрушительных авиаударов.
    Мерикане, "они не умные".. и то - не знають про ковровые ... они все больше сражениями вроде Battle of 73 Easting гордятся...
    recourse
    ...such a result (or rather, its absence) is dictated by systemic errors in the construction of the Russian Aerospace Forces
    Hmm, some people really, really liked Hephaestus before... well, like, "no need for precision, cast iron and Hephaestus are more fun together"... recourse
    100-мм зенитная пушка Saeer. Батарея данных орудий управляется централизованно с КП, сами пушки ведут огонь без участия личного состава
    "oil painting" - "guns fire without the participation of personnel" and at the same time "Of course, all this is hopelessly outdated."
    "Как тебе такое, Илон Маск?!"
    Like.
    wassat
    The situation could have been somewhat improved by the delivery of Su-35S, but these aircraft arrived in Iran only recently, and Iranian pilots clearly have not had time to get used to them.
    We need to introduce some kind of course, like "get comfortable with the Su-35."
    Во времена СССР аборигенам оружие продавали и обучали их, сейчас-то что происходит - "на! это самолет, освойся как-нибудь сам"? Даже французы-лягушатники держат эскадрилью Рафалей для учебных целей, никто не выпускает истребители в режиме "а теперь освойся".
    request
    PS, "...мнение об иранской ПВО как о некоей ультимативно-мощной структуре" - может быть сначала все же о структуре? О том, что часть ПВО у КСИР, часть у армии, ВВС - вообще отдельно и все эти организации (а там еще и басидж есть) испытывают к друг другу несомненные теплые чувства? И кто там вместо политруков руководит с правом решающего голоса?
    request
    Now let's see how Iran's Air Force and Air Defense performed during the current war and whether Iran can win it or at least achieve peace on terms acceptable to itself.
    Продолжение следует ...
    maybe we shouldn't... temporarily... feel
    ...about battleships and dreadnoughts, an alternative one, and... fellow
    1. +5
      April 7 2026 05: 53
      Quote: Wildcat
      Мерикане, "они не умные".. и то - не знають про ковровые ... они все больше сражениями вроде Battle of 73 Easting гордятся...

      Incidentally, few people here remember the Battle of 73 Easting. Regarding the "carpet"... Well, the losses to air defense were quite significant, unlike today. Incidentally, the Iraqis managed to shoot down a B-52 and an AC-130, something the Iranians couldn't match. Sixteen pilots alone were captured...
      Quote: Wildcat
      Well, it's like, "No need for precision; cast iron and Hephaestus are more fun together."

      So, "the party said" cast iron is better, and everyone started singing hosannas to "Hephaestus," which managed to get close to the PRNK F-111 model of the late 60s...
      Quote: Wildcat
      That the IRGC has some air defense, the army has some, and the Air Force is completely separate, and all these organizations (and there's also the Basij) have undeniable warm feelings for each other? And who, instead of the political officers, leads them with the final say?

      It's doubtful there's any reliable data on this matter. I mean, about their relationship.
      Quote: Wildcat
      maybe we shouldn't... temporarily...
      ...about battleships and dreadnoughts, an alternative one, and...

      Come on, it’s already more or less clear what Iran’s air defense is and what condition it’s in.
      1. +6
        April 7 2026 06: 04
        By the way, few people here remember the Battle of 73 Easting.
        "Генеральная линия партии" с 1991 года не изменилась: "все было хорошо, но купили иракских генералов".
        No one has seen or heard of Iraqi generals with mansions on Rublyovka, model wives, Tiffany Tattlers – but the legend lives on and explains everything...
        request
        It's doubtful there's any reliable data on this matter. I mean, about their relationship.
        Relationships: keeping an eye on each other, so it doesn't turn out like 1979. A sort of "system of checks and balances" and "separation of powers" – as is typical in such countries. Plus, everyone has their own business and protection rackets (search "IRGC business" into Yandex, for example).
        Hence the result... by the way, does this remind you of anything?
        request
        1. +4
          April 7 2026 06: 10
          Quote: Wildcat
          The "general party line" has not changed since 1991: "everything was fine, but the generals were bought."

          Well, that's just the average person's opinion, so they can do it. I doubt the Defense Ministry leadership shares the same opinion.
          Quote: Wildcat
          Hence the result... by the way, does this remind you of anything?

          Да, сталкивался с таким в 2000, когда в одном месте и ВС, и ВВ, и МВД с соответствующим бардаком и ненужным потерями.
      2. +1
        April 7 2026 06: 27
        Quote: Puncher
        Касаемо ковровых... Дык потери от ПВО были вполне себе значимые, не чета сегодня.

        And yet - there was such a thing
        1. + 12
          April 7 2026 06: 58
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          And yet - there was such a thing

          Я это к тому, что многие сегодня явно переоценивают потери ВВС США в Иране. По сравнению с Ираком это мелочи, там за этот период уже десятки погибших летунов было, в одном АС-130 четырнадцать человек разом погибли. Т.е. не считали такие потери критичными, в то время как сегодня многие надеются, что текущие потери заставят Трампа остановиться. Наивные люди.
          1. + 10
            April 7 2026 07: 15
            Quote: Puncher
            Я это к тому, что многие сегодня явно переоценивают потери ВВС США в Иране.

            Verily drinks
    2. +6
      April 7 2026 06: 26
      Quote: Wildcat
      It is common knowledge that no operation was ever won "in the air"; a ground operation was always required.

      However, the air campaign brought Iraqi forces to a point where US ground forces could no longer lose a ground operation. That's victory.
      Quote: Wildcat
      Мерикане, "они не умные".. и то - не знають про ковровые .

      Американцы-то знают...
      На четвертую ночь войны B-52G стали привлекать к ударам по Республиканской гвардии Ирака. Это были самые боеспособные и самые преданные С. Хусейну войска. Эта задача заняла 85% вылетов В-52 над территорией Кувейта. С высоты 9000 м самолеты бомбили как непосредственно позиции Республиканской гвардии, так и пути подвоза резервов и снабжения. 29 января В-52 атаковали три иракские бронетанковые бригады, сосредоточенные на границе Кувейта и Саудовской Аравии, чтобы занять саудовский прибрежный город Кафиджи. Вот как описывается типичный налет с участием В-52: смешанный воздушный отряд состоял из звена В-52, звена F-16, второго звена В-52, звена А-10 и третьего звена В-52. Отряд кружил над Кувейтом и ждал команду на атаку от наземного центра или от АВАКСа. Цели были всюду, но они ничего не могли сделать, чтобы остановить полеты американцев. Перед вылетом был размечен квадрат размером 50 × 50 км. Этот квадрат разбивался на площадки размером 2,5 × 1,8 км. Самолеты в воздухе получали команду — бомбить площадку №**, по которой бомбардировщики высыпали свой груз.

      Quote: Wildcat
      хм, а кому-то Гефест очень-очень раньше нравился

      Так он сам по себе хорошая штука.
      Quote: Wildcat
      "oil painting" - "guns fire without the participation of personnel" and at the same time "Of course, all this is hopelessly outdated."
      "Как тебе такое, Илон Маск?!"

      Easy. Automation alone doesn't ensure modernity—four Iranian 100mm guns can fire 60 shells, while one AU-190 of the same caliber can fire 80. The problem is... our shells are stored in the AU-190's magazine and can be fed until depleted, while the Iranians had between six and seven shells per gun, meaning they fired 24-28 shells—and that's it, goodbye automation, need to reload...
      Quote: Wildcat
      Во времена СССР аборигенам оружие продавали и обучали их, сейчас-то что происходит - "на! это самолет, освойся как-нибудь сам"?

      Боюсь, Вы не понимаете сложности данной задачи.
      Конечно, пилотов Су-35С обучали в РФ - это 200%. Но само по себе это обучение не дает боеготовности - Су-35 должны научиться действовать совместно с силами и средствами ВВС и ПВО Ирана. Все это сложно и требует времени.
      Quote: Wildcat
      P.S., "...the view of Iran's air defense as some sort of ultimate, powerful structure"—maybe we should first talk about the structure? About the fact that some of the air defense is in the IRGC, some in the army, and the Air Force—separately.

      I'm writing specifically about Iran's air defense system. Not the IRGC and so on.
      1. +1
        April 7 2026 15: 54
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Так он сам по себе хорошая штука.

        If the enemy lacks air defenses stronger than MANPADS, then yes, it's possible to drop iron from an altitude of 5-7 km and hit targets. But only if you have precise atmospheric data in the drop zone and the iron's aerodynamics match the program's input.
        As soon as the enemy acquires even a regiment-level air defense force, that's it. And you have to return to the beaten path of "aircraft as" cannon carts носителя УРО/УАБ", пробитую ВВС США ещё со времён Вьетнама.
        Although there is still a question - who is first. I remember, dear Nikita Sergeevich advocated for this same path back in the late 50s.
        1. +5
          April 7 2026 16: 05
          Quote: Alexey RA
          If the enemy does not have air defense systems stronger than MANPADS.

          Of course. And there's no other way. In theory, this is achieved by moving the SAM system forward with the feet, but here we are, as always...
      2. +2
        April 7 2026 21: 24
        hi
        However, the air campaign brought Iraqi forces to a point where US ground forces could no longer lose a ground operation. That's victory.

        Andrei Nikolaevich, you put forward one strange theses after another, supported by the arguments “it is common knowledge” and “nevertheless”.
        Please, just look at the descriptions of "100 Hours": The Battles of Norfolk, Al-Busaye and 73 Easting are classic battles of mechanized units, hundreds of armored vehicles, where - despite the numerical superiority of the Iraqis - the coalition won precisely in "ground battles."
        Не отрицаю влияние на боевые действия ВВС, но судьба неудавшегося окружения все же решалась на земле.

        Американцы-то знают..

        Andrey Nikolaevich, "owl from the globe" feel уже жалуется на вас.
        The last thing that fit the description of "carpet bombing" and was called that was "Linebaker2": "B-52s flew 729 missions [52] and dropped 15,237 tons of bombs on Hanoi, Haiphong and other targets."Three B52 links - 9 vehicles, IMHO - are not really "carpet" enough.
        Впрочем, если вам так нравится ... request

        Боюсь, Вы не понимаете сложности данной задачи.
        Конечно, пилотов Су-35С обучали в РФ - это 200%. Но само по себе это обучение не дает боеготовности - Су-35 должны научиться действовать совместно с силами и средствами ВВС и ПВО Ирана. Все это сложно и требует времени.

        "Appeal to the obvious, false authority
        The demagogue's argument begins with expressions like "everyone knows that...," "obvious...," "science has long since proven...," "all successful businessmen know that...," and so on. This exploits the listener's false pride (if something is presented as "common knowledge," it can be difficult for them to admit, even to themselves, that they've never heard of it) or cites supposed authorities who agree with the statement, which has an effect on people who tend to trust authority.

        Боюсь, вы не можете объяснить, каким образом подготовленный пилот Су35 - "Конечно, пилотов Су-35С обучали в РФ - это 200%" - suddenly it turns out it's not combat-ready. And why were Vietnamese pilots able to operate the MiG 17-19-21 without any problem, while Iranian pilots still have to undergo some special ritual?must learn to operate jointly with the forces and assets of the Iranian Air Force and Air Defense".

        I'm writing specifically about Iran's air defense system. Not the IRGC and so on.
        This is very bad, Andrei Nikolaevich.
        You can find out for yourself that the IRGC has its own, non-military, aircraft, missiles, and—surprise!—air defense systems: "The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Aerospace Force is known to operate the following air defense equipment:
        Middle range
        Raad/3rd Khordad [ 90 ]
        Талаш/15-й Хордад [ 90 ]
        Точечная защита
        Мисаг-1 (QW-1 Vanguard) [ 90 ]
        Misag-2 (QW-18) [ 90 ]"

        request
        Кстати, у КСИР еще как минимум есть ТОРы: "Украинский Boeing в январе 2020 года был сбит двумя ракетами иранской ПВО, погибли 176 человек. Суд вынес приговоры десяти военным. Оператор ПВО, выполнивший пуск ракет, получил 13 лет тюрьмы. Десять обвиняемых получили от одного года до 13 лет лишения свободы. Как установил суд, получивший максимальное наказание оператор системы ПВО «Тор» без разрешения командного пункта определил гражданский самолет как вражеский и выпустил по нему две ракеты. Это было совершено ненамеренно ввиду ошибочного определения цели, указал суд. Оператор также должен будет выплатить компенсации семьям погибших.
        Others sentenced included the then commanders of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps' Air Defense Force and the Tehran Air Defense Zone (one year in prison each), the then commander of the Tehran Regional Operations Command Center (one and a half years), the then commander of the 5th Tehran Air Defense Base and the duty officer of the Tehran Operations Headquarters (two years each), the person responsible for the Tora command post (three years), and the employees responsible for this complex (from one to three years).
        https://www.rbc.ru/society/16/04/2023/643c473b9a794754dfff0ccd
        "... пассажирский рейс из Тегерана в Киев, сбитый зенитными ракетами Корпуса стражей исламской революции 8 января 2020 года. Все 176 пассажиров на борту погибли. Ответственность за инцидент взяли на себя правительство Исламской Республики и КСИР. Амир Али Хаджизаде , командующий этими силами и ответственный за произошедшее чиновник, выступил в телепрограмме, чтобы извиниться перед людьми и выжившими и принять на себя ответственность за инцидент." https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%86%DB%8C%D8%B1%D9%88%DB%8C_%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7%DB%8C_%D8%B3%D9%BE%D8%A7%D9%87_%D9%BE%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86_%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A8_%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%DB%8C#:~:text=%D9%86%DB%8C%D8%B1%D9%88%DB%8C%20%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7%DB%8C%20%D8%B3%D9%BE%D8%A7%D9%87%20%D9%BE%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86%20%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A8%20%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%DB%8C%20%2D%20%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7%D8%8C%20%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%B4%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%87%D9%94%20%D8%A2%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%AF
        request
        By the way, there is also the Basij - but very little is known about them, and in terms of air defense - something is very little and strange.
        feel
        1. +3
          April 7 2026 22: 09
          Quote: Wildcat
          Andrei Nikolaevich, you put forward one strange theses after another, supported by the arguments “it is common knowledge” and “nevertheless”.
          Please, just look at the descriptions of "100 Hours": The Battles of Norfolk, Al-Busaye and 73 Easting are classic battles of mechanized units, hundreds of armored vehicles, where - despite the numerical superiority of the Iraqis - the coalition won precisely in "ground battles."

          Простите, это шутка такая?:))) Или прикажете дать подробное описание упомянутых Вами сражений? Которые не были ни классическими боями механизированных соединений, не велись при численном превосходстве иракских сил (как раз наоборот, превосходство было за МНС) и т.д.
          It was just a finishing off of the remnants of Iraqi ground forces and nothing more.
          Quote: Wildcat
          Последнее, что подходило к описанию "карпет бомбинг" и что так называлось - это "Лайнбейкер2": "B-52 совершили 729 вылетов [ 52 ] и сбросили 15 237 тонн бомб на Ханой , Хайфон и другие цели". Три звена Б52 - 9 машин, ИМХО - никак не тянут "на ковровое".

          Read on
          С двумя или даже с одним звеном В-52 тоннаж сброшенных бомб был значительным. Так, 30 января в 28 налетах было сброшено 479 т бомб. Спустя месяц за три дня полетов было сброшено 1240 т. Каждый самолет мог нести до 51 бомбы М117R или подобное число бомб CBU-58, CBU-87 СЕМ или CBU-89. Американцы старались держать войска Ирака под постоянным огнем. Многие иракские пленные рассказывали, что B-52 был оружием, которого больше всего боялись в Кувейте. Часто пленные были из подразделений, которые не бомбили, но они видели эффект от 300 бомб, падающих без предупреждения, недалеко от их позиций. В целом на бомбежку Республиканской гвардии было сделано 5600 самолето-вылетов. Некоторые батальоны бомбили непрерывно в течение 6 недель. Потери были тяжелы, что вызывало дезертирство. В некоторых подразделениях до трети бойцов покинуло свои позиции.

          These were precisely carpet bombings, both in terms of the mass of bombs and in terms of the duration of impact.
          Quote: Wildcat
          I'm afraid you can't explain how a trained Su-35 pilot - "Of course, Su-35S pilots were trained in the Russian Federation - that's 200%" - suddenly turns out not to be combat-ready.

          Have you tried asking?:)))) Although, to be honest, I don’t understand at all what could be unclear here.
          Quote: Wildcat
          И почему пилоты Вьетнама спокойно работали с Миг 17-19-21, а иранские еще должны пройти какой-то особенный обряд

          Потому что Вы сравниваете несравнимое.
          Во Вьетнам прибыла куча наших специалистов, которые попросту говоря стали разворачивать во Вьетнаме ПВО по типу советского. То есть мы гнали свою технику, свою связь, РЛС, самолеты, военспецов, брали вьетнамцев учили, показывали личным примером и системно строили ПВО по образцу и подобию СССР.
          It was never the case that the Vietnamese "worked quietly" on the aircraft issued to them. They worked IN THE SYSTEM the USSR had built for them. Where radar, reconnaissance, air defense systems, artillery, fighters, and everything else were interconnected into a single system, into which the Vietnamese were allowed to operate after receiving the appropriate training.
          If instead we had given the Vietnamese a few dozen MiG-21s and trained them in piloting techniques and basic air combat techniques (as happened with the Su-35 and Iran), the US Air Force would have gobbled them up without even noticing.
          Quote: Wildcat
          This is very bad, Andrei Nikolaevich.
          You can find information on your own that the IRGC has its own

          I know that. But I'm writing specifically about air defense, and there's no reason why that's bad. What were you saying about demagogic tactics? wink
    3. +2
      April 7 2026 06: 56
      Quote: Wildcat
      Общеизвестно, что ни одна операция не выигрывалась "в воздухе", всегда требовалась наземная операция, в части Бури в Пустыне - не совсем удачная "100 часов".

      1.Югославия. 2. Вы считаете, что "воздух" в Ираке-сыграл вообщем то небольшую роль для победы? или может основную все же?
      1. +1
        April 7 2026 21: 28
        1. No.
        2. Не основную.
        Your comment is too short...
        1. 0
          April 7 2026 22: 23
          Quote: Wildcat
          1. No.
          2. Не основную.
          Your comment is too short...

          1. Yes 2. The main thing... well, that's all we talked about laughing
          1. +1
            April 7 2026 22: 32
            Sorry for being lapidary!
            I just have to tear myself apart. wassat между историей "Бури в пустыне" и реальной жизнью... жизнь побеждает feel and takes its toll...
            request
            1. +1
              April 8 2026 10: 37
              Quote: Wildcat
              Sorry for being lapidary!
              You just have to be torn between the story of "Desert Storm" and real life... life wins and takes its toll...

              life must win, so - everything is right! hi
    4. +2
      April 7 2026 07: 00
      Quote: Wildcat
      And who is in charge there instead of the political officers with the right to vote?

      Mullahs.
      1. +1
        April 7 2026 10: 21
        With two "l"s or, still, with one, otherwise I always get confused?
    5. +3
      April 7 2026 07: 41
      Quote: Wildcat
      We need to introduce some kind of course, like "get comfortable with the Su-35."
      Во времена СССР аборигенам оружие продавали и обучали их, сейчас-то что происходит - "на! это самолет, освойся как-нибудь сам"?

      Why, we train Iranian pilots. But these ten Su-35s are a dead weight...
    6. +4
      April 7 2026 07: 58
      "You'd better talk about the reactor, about your favorite lunar tractor..." lol
    7. 0
      April 7 2026 20: 56
      Hmm, some people really, really liked Hephaestus before... well, like, "no need for precision, cast iron and Hephaestus are more fun together"...
      конечно веселее, ведь в рамках ГОЗ это копейки, а вместо высокоточного оружия можно осваивать триллионы feel
      https://forpost-sz.ru/a/2018-12-05/shojgu-v-ehkonomiku-peterburga-investirovali-odin-trillion-rublej
  4. +1
    April 7 2026 05: 45
    The Iranian air defense system suffers from the same problem as our own: there are virtually no systems for safe target acquisition. The lack of passive optoelectronic systems greatly impacts the air defense's survivability. Radio control of SAMs is also a thing of the past. Small targets are practically undetectable.
    1. +4
      April 7 2026 06: 14
      Quote: Konnick
      The lack of passive optical-electronic systems greatly affects the survival of air defense systems

      Their range is not long.
      Quote: Konnick
      there are virtually no safe target detection systems

      Only radar, nothing else has been invented.
      1. 0
        April 7 2026 07: 21
        Quote: Puncher

        Their range is not long.

        Why bother? Maybe the S-400s are enough, now the S-500s...let's just go with the S-40,000s, they're blind to low-flying targets anyway.

        Only radar, nothing else has been invented.

        I wrote about the optical-electronic system and the SAM with the same homing head.
        1. +1
          April 7 2026 07: 36
          Quote: Konnick
          still blind to low-flying targets

          Actually, not quite, there are special radars, the canvas rises high = the radio horizon increases.
          Quote: Konnick
          I wrote about the optical-electronic system and the SAM with the same homing head.

          Sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean?
          1. 0
            April 7 2026 07: 45
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Actually, not quite, there are special radars, the canvas rises high = the radio horizon increases.

            At 500 km?

            Sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean?

            Fired...forgot
            1. +2
              April 7 2026 07: 57
              Quote: Konnick
              At 500 km?

              На 500 км малоразмерные даже ДРЛО не увидит, не говоря о ОЭС
              Quote: Konnick
              Fired...forgot

              ОЭС-то тут причем?:)))
              1. 0
                April 7 2026 08: 03
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                На 500 км малоразмерные даже ДРЛО не увидит, не говоря о ОЭС

                А зачем тогда С-500?
                1. +2
                  April 7 2026 08: 05
                  Quote: Konnick
                  А зачем тогда С-500?

                  This is a complex against ballistic missiles, first and foremost.
                  1. +1
                    April 7 2026 08: 16
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Quote: Konnick
                    А зачем тогда С-500?

                    This is a complex against ballistic missiles, first and foremost.

                    Why then expose him to a drone strike in Crimea? Incidentally, it's usually a combined strike. You can't even camouflage him. What was he doing in Crimea? It's 400 km from Krasnodar to Yevpatoriya as the crow flies...
                    1. +1
                      April 7 2026 08: 25
                      Quote: Konnick
                      Why then did they expose him to a drone strike in Crimea?

                      They tried to secure a missile defense system. They also pounded Crimea.
                      1. +2
                        April 7 2026 08: 37
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        They tried to secure a missile defense system. They also pounded Crimea.

                        A strange decision...to use long-range missiles against cruise missiles
                    2. +2
                      April 7 2026 08: 31
                      Let me add: why chase range? You're writing against ballistic missiles, but by the time the S-500 gets there, the ballistic missile will have already done its job, and an aircraft won't be able to detect them at that distance. They made a few dozen, and what's the point? And they're pounding us as far as the Urals. We don't even have sound-ranging systems, and our air defense aircraft are practically inactive due to the lack of a proper optical-electronic station. What we have, based on thermal imaging, is too short-sighted, even though the claimed range is tens of kilometers. Especially now, because of the sanctions, I'm not sure they exist...
                      1. +1
                        April 7 2026 09: 03
                        Quote: Konnick
                        Дополню, зачем гнаться за дальностью?

                        Вообще-то дальнобойные ЗУР прекрасно показали себя на СВО
                        Quote: Konnick
                        but by the time this S-500 gets there, the ballistic missile will have already done its job

                        С-500 оснащается разными ракетами. То, о чем пишете Вы - это 40Н6М, дальность до 500 км возможно, но она не противоракетная, а противосамолетная. А для стрельбы по БР у нее совсем другие ракеты.
                        Quote: Konnick
                        and air defense aviation is practically inactive due to the lack of a normal optical-electronic station

                        Nikolai, once again, what do you mean by "optical-electronic station"? Our fighters have excellent optical-location stations (OLS), which detect targets visually in the normal and infrared ranges and determine the distance using a laser rangefinder.
                      2. 0
                        April 7 2026 09: 08
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Nikolai, once again, what do you mean by "optical-electronic station"? Our fighters have excellent optical-location stations (OLS), which detect targets visually in the normal and infrared ranges and determine the distance using a laser rangefinder.

                        Excellent? Who determined this? And why do drones reach the Urals?
                      3. 0
                        April 7 2026 09: 20
                        Quote: Konnick
                        Отличные? Кто это определил?

                        Yes, it’s a generally accepted fact that, in terms of performance characteristics, our OLS are among the best in the world.
                        Quote: Konnick
                        Why do UAVs reach the Urals?

                        Why do you consider OLS a panacea for UAVs?
                      4. -1
                        April 7 2026 09: 50
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Yes, it’s a generally accepted fact that, in terms of performance characteristics, our OLS are among the best in the world.

                        Did you watch "Military Acceptance"?
                      5. 0
                        April 7 2026 09: 59
                        Quote: Konnick
                        Did you watch "Military Acceptance"?

                        Начнем с простого - первые ОЛС появились именно на наших самолетах, не на США или НАТО. Пилоты Ф-22 жаловались в Сирии на то, что на наших самолетах ОЛС есть, а у них - нет. ОЛС-35 (на Су-35) имеет камеру, тепловизор и лазерный дальномер, последний способен измерять дистанции до наземных целей на 50 км и воздушных - 20 км. Тепловизор видит самолеты в ППС на 50 км в ЗПС - на 90 км.
                      6. +1
                        April 7 2026 16: 01
                        Quote: Konnick
                        Дополню, зачем гнаться за дальностью?

                        Чтобы лишить противника главного преимущества - систем дальнего обзора и целеуказания, работающих по целям на малых высотах. То есть, ДРЛО и самолётов боевого управления и целеуказания.
                        These vehicles usually operate from deep behind enemy lines, and conventional air defense systems cannot reach them unless they are pulled directly to the front line.

                        The second mission of long-range SAM systems is over-the-horizon engagements against cruise missile carriers behind enemy lines. However, this is only achievable when operating in conjunction with friendly AWACS vehicles and equipped with SAMs with ARL homing heads, which have much more lenient targeting requirements than direct AWACS.
        2. +4
          April 7 2026 07: 49
          Quote: Konnick
          Why bother? Maybe the S-400s are enough, now the S-500s...let's just go with the S-40,000s, they're blind to low-flying targets anyway.

          I mean detecting the target. It needs to be detected first; optical systems have a narrow field of view, so you need to first target it and only then start tracking it.
          Quote: Konnick
          I wrote about the optical-electronic system and the SAM with the same homing head.

          Да понял я вас. Вы описали ЗРК IRIS-T, вот только у него обнаружение ВЦ радиолокационное.
          1. +1
            April 7 2026 08: 00
            Quote: Puncher
            I mean detecting the target. It needs to be detected first; optical systems have a narrow field of view, so you need to first target it and only then start tracking it.

            I mean, what are we missing? They've built long- and medium-range systems, but they forgot about short-range... just don't mention the Pantsir. How many S-400 missile systems were destroyed in Crimea? Need I remind you? It's like an elderly general's farsightedness... An optoelectronic system should work against UAVs, not ballistic missiles... like shooting sparrows with a cannon. Yesterday's raid on Novorossiysk clearly demonstrated the incompetence of the anti-aircraft defenses installed on the Admiral Makarov frigate. And stop calling these useless ships by the famous names of naval commanders; they're not worthy of their numbers. It turns out they don't even have thermal imagers.
            The A-190 can fire at a range of 20 km, but it doesn't have canister rounds for close combat, although they should have been equipped with them long ago... Yes, I read... the turret of this installation is made using stealth technology... made me laugh
            1. +3
              April 8 2026 01: 33
              Наблюдались вообще парадоксальные кадры - панцирь стреляет ракетами по дрону издалека, промахивается, дрон летит на панцирь. И вроде же панцирь видел дрон, он ближе и лучше виден, так? Но на ближней дальности он не разворачивает свои пушки и не стреляет по дрону. Да как так-то?! belay
              1. +1
                April 8 2026 09: 05
                Quote from alexoff
                But at close range, it doesn't turn its guns around and fire at the drone.

                In my area, the armored vehicles regularly fire cannons at drones, and even shoot them down.
                1. +2
                  April 8 2026 09: 49
                  That's probably why they don't appear on video...
                  1. +2
                    April 8 2026 10: 16
                    I might be mistaken, but the minimum range of the Pantsir's missiles is either 1000 or 1200 meters. Anything closer should be shot down by the cannons.
                    1. +1
                      April 8 2026 12: 12
                      Ага, но вот было что не стреляли пушки, смотрели в сторону request
      2. +2
        April 7 2026 09: 14
        Quote: Puncher
        Only radar, nothing else has been invented.

        Скорее, речь про систему ПВО, где есть радары обнаружения, которые выдают первичное ЦУ на распределенные ПУ с ИК системами обнаружения целей
        1. +3
          April 7 2026 11: 59
          Quote: Cympak
          Скорее, речь про систему ПВО, где есть радары обнаружения, которые выдают первичное ЦУ на распределенные ПУ с ИК системами обнаружения целей

          For Iran, this is not an option; it will not work for long.
    2. +1
      April 7 2026 06: 30
      Quote: Konnick
      Radio control of SAMs is also yesterday's century.

      У них обычно полуактивные ГСН и даже активные есть.
      Quote: Konnick
      there are virtually no safe target detection systems

      Motor depot
      Quote: Konnick
      Малоразмерные цели практически не определяются.

      Why? With their radar field.
      1. +2
        April 7 2026 07: 53
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Motor depot

        Полно вам. "Автобаза" не способна выдавать координаты цели. Вернее такие которым можно использовать для наведения ракеты. Ну и самое главное ВВС США и Израиля не включают свои РЛС ибо некого им в воздухе искать.
        1. 0
          April 7 2026 07: 56
          Quote: Puncher
          Вернее такие которым можно использовать для наведения ракеты.

          Yes, but in principle it's enough to tell the radar where to shine.
          Quote: Puncher
          And most importantly, the US and Israeli Air Forces do not turn on their radars.

          Автобазе это и не надо, она ловит не РЛС, а работу электроники самого самолета, то есть она обнаруживает самолет с выключенной РЛС
          1. +2
            April 7 2026 08: 04
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Yes, but in principle it's enough to tell the radar where to shine.

            Для этого комплексы РТР и существуют. Но вот включать РЛС в Иране ныне очень опасно.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Автобазе это и не надо, она ловит не РЛС, а работу электроники самого самолета

            Это невозможно. Вокруг обычно находится столько электроприборов, что в этом очень слабом шуме выявить именно работу ЭВМ самолета невозможно технически ибо нет определенных характеристик отличных от иных. Засечь работу системы передачи данных, возможно. Если используется.
            1. 0
              April 7 2026 08: 24
              Quote: Puncher
              It's impossible.

              However, that's exactly how it works.
              Quote: Puncher
              этом очень слабом шуме выявить именно работу ЭВМ самолета невозможно

              Why a computer? An airplane is a very electrified thing, there's a ton of electrical stuff there.
              1. +2
                April 7 2026 08: 41
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                there's a bunch of electrical stuff there

                Of course. For example, a generator creates an electromagnetic field when operating, and contacts do the same when closed. But this is impossible to identify and link to a specific aircraft over a large distance, because car generators and electromechanical devices are operating nearby. This is so-called EM noise, which interferes with radio communications, for example.
                1. 0
                  April 7 2026 09: 05
                  Quote: Puncher
                  Но это невозможно идентифицировать и привязать к конкретному самолету

                  Now they have reached the point where they can detect aircraft not even by their own signal, but by the reflected signal of “garbage” radiation.
                  Quote: Puncher
                  so-called EM noise
    3. +1
      April 7 2026 16: 05
      Quote: Konnick
      Radio control of SAMs is also yesterday's century.

      The RKTU is excellent at operating in jamming conditions. The PARL seeker is usually completely blocked in these conditions. Its target illumination radar also instantly reveals the SAM system and alerts the target pilot that they are about to be fired upon.
      In addition, all long-range SAMs and even RVVs now partially operate according to the RKTU - during the marching section (with correction) before entering the target acquisition area of ​​the onboard ARL homing head.
  5. +6
    April 7 2026 06: 10
    Браво!!! Спасибо автору,глубокая и аргументированная статья. Ждём с нетерпением продолжения.
  6. +4
    April 7 2026 06: 32
    There are countless examples of this: the head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, who had never worked in a bank before in her career, a journalist and director of Roscosmos, the Minister of Defense, who only served in the army, the leadership of the Ministry of Industry and Trade and the Ministry of Economic Development, who have no experience in industry, and so on and so forth.

    ... Между прочим , за этого "и т.л." проголосовало 87 процентов населения Всея Эрэфии. :)
    1. + 11
      April 7 2026 06: 42
      Quote: Chack Wessel
      By the way, 87 percent of the population of the whole of Erephia voted for this "etc."

      We can't know that:))))) In general, high voices are influenced by two factors
      1) Obviously comical rivals - presidential candidates.
      2) Lack of third-party control over the vote counting - in the Russian Federation there is no structure other than the government that controls the integrity of elections
      1. +5
        April 7 2026 07: 43
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Отсутствие стороннего контроля за подсчетом голосов - в РФ нет структуры, кроме власти, которая контролирует честность выборов

        And then the card (ballot) went to me...the electronic election system said
      2. +3
        April 7 2026 10: 23
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        We can't know that:))))) In general, high voices are influenced by two factors
        1) Obviously comical rivals - presidential candidates.
        2) Lack of third-party control over the vote counting - in the Russian Federation there is no structure other than the government that controls the integrity of elections

        Besides:
        - нет графы "Против всех", протестно не проголосуешь, а не будешь голосовать, см.далее
        - there is no minimum threshold, i.e. if 20% of voters come to the polls and 87% of them vote for the favorite, then 17,4% of the total number of voters will actually choose him, and the opinion of the remaining 82,6% of voters will no longer matter
        You need to go to the polls.
  7. +6
    April 7 2026 06: 57
    Iran may have all of the above, or at least had it before the 12-Day War of 2025. They may even have known how to exploit it. But a few days after the 12-Day War began, the Jews were flying over Iran at will, not just the stealthy 5th-generation F-35I Adir, but also the highly visible 4th-generation F-15s and F-16s. All the Iranian air defense could really boast of was one (and that's right: one) downed drone. And, as icing on the cake, a B-2 Midnight Hammer raid that bombed deeply buried nuclear facilities.
    И в нынешней войне, хотя и сбили один F-15Е и, предположительно, один А-10, но не то, что невидимки B-2, а даже старые добрые B-52, летают над Ираном на больших высотах практически где хотят, совершенно беспрепятственно. Так что ПВО если и осталось, то приведено в такое состояние, в котором она, как организованная и скоординированная сила, отсутствует. А одиночные ЗРК, хоть и могут добиться одиночных успехов, погоды не делают.
    1. +2
      April 7 2026 07: 55
      Quote: Nagan
      Perhaps they even knew how to use it.

      You're in a hurry, "Sweets come third," the author indicated.
  8. +1
    April 7 2026 07: 34
    a real scourge of Iran's air defense, which is armed with systems of both domestic production and American, Russian and Chinese origin

    On the one hand, that's true. On the other hand, the enemy has to suppress a multitude of systems with completely different characteristics. Which is probably significantly more difficult than dealing with a variety of air defense systems, which are numerous but comprised of a maximum of five types.
    1. +2
      April 7 2026 20: 31
      С другой стороны - супостату приходится подавлять кучу систем с совершенно разными характеристиками...

      They don't suppress them, they destroy them (long- and medium-range radars) – by coordinates, in the first strike. The lack of airborne radars (AEW&C) in air defense cannot be compensated for.
  9. +1
    April 7 2026 08: 57
    Во Вьетнаме были "Дикие хорьки".А у нас ? Нужен специализированный РЭБ самолет.В СССР были:Ан-12,Як-38П,Ил-76ПП.
    Формально,можно на Су-34 Хибины+Х-31ПД(дальность 250км).
  10. +1
    April 7 2026 09: 28
    The conclusion for Iran is depressing: without a modern air force and air defense, you are doomed to defeat! Your troops will ultimately turn into a mob of Basmachi fighters, easily dispatched from the air by the US and Israel!
  11. 0
    April 7 2026 09: 33
    But as of January 22, the Ukrainians had 54 S-300 divisions alone.
    1. +1
      April 7 2026 10: 02
      Quote: Kolin
      одних дивизионов С-300 было 54.

      They never had so many - they were given 49 divisions. And as of 2022, there were
      24–29 дивизионов ЗРС С-300П (11–13 ПТ, 13–16 ПС), один-два дивизиона С-300В, 10 дивизионов ЗРК «Бук-М1». Кроме того, еще до девяти дивизионов «Бук», четыре-пять дивизионов ЗРС С-300В, до девяти дивизионов ЗРС С-300ПТ, 12 дивизионов ЗРС С-200, до 20 дивизионов ЗРК С-125 находятся на хранении.
      1. 0
        April 7 2026 11: 05
        Помнится какой-то важный укр говорил еще до сво именно о 54 дивизионах с-300, впрочем вполне возможно там было не 54 дивизиона с-300, 54 дивизиона всего.
        1. 0
          April 7 2026 11: 23
          Quote: Kolin
          впрочем вполне возможно там было не 54 дивизиона с-300, 54 дивизиона всего.

          It's quite possible, although it doesn't quite match the numbers I know.
        2. 0
          April 7 2026 16: 08
          Quote: Kolin
          Помнится какой-то важный укр говорил еще до сво именно о 54 дивизионах с-300, впрочем вполне возможно там было не 54 дивизиона с-300, 54 дивизиона всего.

          Может это "по документам"?
          But in reality, it’s like in Mamchur’s brigade: according to the documents, there are almost fifty aircraft, five of which can take off.
  12. 0
    April 7 2026 10: 06
    Иранцы десятилетиями строили свои ВПК и вооруженные силы и КСИР, только это все заиграло когда по объективным причинам практически полностью сменилось руководство Ирана. Любители "договорняков" , переговоров, зерновых коридоров, "Духа Анкориджа" отошли в мир иной. И вдруг Иран перестал искать пути переговоров со своими врагами, рисовать красные линии.На удар стал сразу отвечать ударом, порой очень больным для США, Израиля и их ситуативных союзников. И решение оказалось не только в ТТХ оружия, а в готовности использовать то оружие что имеется, в решительности руководства и готовности любым способом защищать свою родину, а не "соплежуйством" прикрываемом рассказами что "мы не такие", если вы взяли власть в стране, будьте готовы и нести ответственность, а не только готовность получать полное государственное содержание. И для защиты своей Родины взять на себя тяжесть сложных решений, это я уже нашим теперешним властям адресую.
  13. 0
    April 7 2026 10: 22
    всегда готов к «реверс-инжинирингу» нужных ему технологий.

    Why can't we do this? In all areas. If today, international public and private law is in tatters, not to mention patent law? wassat
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  17. +2
    April 7 2026 10: 53
    Wonderful thoughts on the topic - why don't American soldiers fight the American way!
    I dare say that the author "smoothed out" the reality of the history of the SVO and the reality in which everything takes place.
    but it doesn't really matter, it's clear how the resource works
  18. +3
    April 7 2026 10: 58
    Our aviation struck the Ukrainian Air Force's air defenses and then attempted to operate over Ukrainian territory, but it immediately turned out that the Ukrainian Air Force's remaining air defenses were sufficient to inflict significant losses on us.


    Topwar has an article titled "August 2008. War in the Air" (August 13, 2013).

    At the end of the article it says this:

    ‎"Не смотря на потери, российская авиация смогла выполнить все поставленные задачи, но в то же время анализ действий ВВС в ходе этой войны вынуждает серьезно задуматься и сделать некоторые и нелицеприятные выводы. И главный из них – ВВС в полной мере не готовы в полной мере к ведению боевых действий в условиях противодействия современной ПВО. Кроме того, учитывая слабую помехозащищенность своих аналогичных средств ПВО (в первую очередь, РЛС РТВ и РЭС войсковой ПВО – не готовы к отражению современных средств воздушного нападения. При противодействии современных средств ПВО противника боевые потери будут существенно выше."
  19. +2
    April 7 2026 11: 22
    Говорить о том что Россия столкнулась с совеременными ПВО над Украиной это же не правда... у Украины не было не одной ЗРС с цифровой перестройкой сигнала. То есть современным РЭБ с перестройкой десятки тысяч раз подавить ПВО Украины не должно было составить проблем.
    Проблема не в одном генерале. Проблема в том что у России нет ВВС. У нас то что называют ВВС это армейская авиация на истребителях. Эти наши "ВВС" не способны проводить масштабные операции воздушные из-за жесткой централизации. Когда с земли говорят пускать или нет ракету, на что способны будут такие "ВВС"? Когда они летают по двое и крыша по двое? Ну какое подавление ПВО? Подавление ПВО это комплексная операция, с ложными целями, приманками ловушками и так далее и так далее, это всегда по сути импровизация, потому что никогда не идет по плану это хаус. А когда авиация жестко централизована, и летчики ноль свободы, ну о чем тут говорить. Никогда ПВО не будет подавленно.
    1. -5
      April 7 2026 14: 38
      The Americans are doing just fine, unlike the Russian Aerospace Forces, but just the other day, they, too, decided to seize Iranian airspace out of habit and paid the price. Exactly like what happened in the confrontation between the Russian Aerospace Forces and Ukrainian air defense, in this case, Iran's air defense "shouldn't have been a problem." So what's the result?
      Можно сказать что в США нет ВВС ?
      Where are the results of this "complex operation, with false targets, bait, traps, and so on and so forth, it's always essentially improvisation, because it never goes according to plan, it's chaos."?
      То есть в данном случае в очередной раз можно убедится что "Ты воюешь настолько хорошо, насколько позволяет тебе это противник"
      1. +3
        April 7 2026 14: 50
        Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
        But just the other day, they too decided to seize the skies of Iran out of habit and paid the price

        No. Their losses are negligible.
        Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
        Exactly the same thing happened in the confrontation between the Aerospace Forces and the Ukrainian air defense.

        Very funny. Are you seriously unable to see the difference between the US Air Force stomping on Iran, dropping concrete-piercing bombs on their nuclear facilities, and our Aerospace Forces not entering Ukrainian airspace?
        1. -6
          April 7 2026 15: 09
          Очень смешно ?

          Discuss this joke with your mother-in-law, and fire me. I'm so fed up with your rantings about the invincibility of aircraft carriers.

          I don't see it, but you see the difference in how the US, after bombing after a light walk over heads and after losing an F15, lost another 11 aircraft and a classified number of special forces personnel.

          Discuss all of this with your mother-in-law, telling her about the "difference between the US Air Force walking over Iran, dropping concrete-piercing bombs on their nuclear centers, and our Aerospace Forces, which do not enter Ukrainian airspace."
          1. +3
            April 7 2026 15: 27
            Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
            Очень смешно ?

            Yes.
            Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
            Discuss this joke with your mother-in-law.

            When I need your advice, I will ask you for it.
            Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
            Я им так уже сыт по горло вашим разглагольствованиями о непобедимости авианосцев

            Well, Iran has already sunk them all, hasn't it?
            Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
            and fire me

            Вы уволены:)))))
          2. +2
            April 7 2026 20: 43
            I'm already fed up with your rantings about the invincibility of aircraft carriers.

            It turned out very clearly - the US Air Force land bases in the Middle East are not used due to Iranian strikes on them (missiles and UAVs fly according to coordinates!) But (mobile) aircraft carriers are active... The same thing happens with ground-based radars and AWACS
      2. +5
        April 7 2026 15: 39
        Nonsense, the Americans have completely conquered the air, dropping bombs even from strategic aircraft. Losses over the past month are much lower than ours (compared to the first month of the Air Defense Forces). There are four times as many sorties per day, despite the fact that the operation involves roughly the same number of fighters as our Air Defense Forces. Well, you get the idea. The difference between our "Air Force" and the American Air Force is astronomical.
        1. -5
          April 7 2026 16: 03
          Fresh food and hard work
          Did the Americans themselves sing to you about their successes?
          Продолжайте верить брехне что они "полностью захватили воздух"
          Даже если они и думали что захватили ,то после эпического эпизода они уже так думать не будут
          However, they didn't think so. Only people like you think that way.
          1. +4
            April 7 2026 17: 34
            What's there to believe? There's footage of bombs falling all over the country. It's not a question of faith. It's a question of accepting reality. If you refuse to accept it and prefer fantasy, that's your right.
            An epic episode? Three aircraft lost to Iranian air defenses in 40+ days, indeed. What an epic episode.
            1. -6
              April 7 2026 17: 48
              А что это за бомбы которые падают ,вам известно ?

              Мне известно как бомбили американцы с авианосца .С дополнительными баками ,с дозаправкой в воздухе несли два планирующих КАБа по 500 кг ,у которых для подлета к цели был еще свой двигатель рассчитанный на 500 км

              That is, without entering the air defense zone, they carried only a ton of ammunition. It doesn’t compare to the combat load of the SU-34, does it?

              Нет никакого доказательства что остальные израильские и американские самолеты брали под крыло более тяжелую боевую нагрузку .Аэродромы знаете ли далеко ,а американские самолеты никогда не отличались слишком большим боевым радиусом

              And now, apparently reasonably deciding that they could go broke on missiles and KABs, the American command decided to take a closer look at Iran's air defense

              We felt it and deeply regretted it; the Iranian air defense system turned out to be more alive than all the living.
              1. +5
                April 7 2026 18: 00
                Yes, we know. GBU39 and BLU109 were spotted in the photo.
                Don't tell me your fairy tales. The Americans don't have any bombs with engines. The PJDAM isn't in service. Moreover, in all the footage of American planes being spotted, if they had bombs, they were just regular ones with a GBU kit, not even a glide vehicle.

                Зачем вы фантазируете? Почему от реальности отказываетесь?
                1. -6
                  April 7 2026 18: 06
                  That is, the Americans and Israel do not have "any bombs with engines."
                  I think something's wrong with your head that you so casually categorized Israel and the United States as countries that are backward in terms of weapons.
                  Советую вам больше читать, а не выдумывать отсебятину какая вам нравится
                2. -1
                  April 7 2026 20: 17
                  Today Tehran was hit with tomahawks.
                  If there was air superiority, they would have hit with bombs.
                  1. +2
                    April 7 2026 21: 02
                    Quote: rytik32
                    If there was air superiority, they would have hit with bombs.

                    Это не связанные между собой вещи. Удары томагавками всегда практиковались и после достижения господства в воздухе
                    1. -2
                      April 7 2026 21: 18
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Tomahawk strikes were always practiced even after air superiority had been achieved.

                      What's the point of tomahawks for air superiority? Bombs are more powerful, cheaper, more accurate, and harder to shoot down.
                      Iran, by the way, shot down 5 Tomahawks.
                      1. -6
                        April 7 2026 21: 49
                        There is no point in anything, unless you consider the lack of any common sense and the meaning of the irrepressible fantasies of armchair strategists as meaning.
                      2. -2
                        April 7 2026 22: 00
                        Perhaps it is difficult for people to admit they are wrong...
                      3. +1
                        April 7 2026 22: 52
                        Завтра:) Сегодня спать уже хочется
                      4. +5
                        April 8 2026 08: 52
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Iran, by the way, shot down 5 Tomahawks.

                        That's what the IRGC said. But eyewitnesses filmed Tomahawks flying calmly over Tehran, and no air defense activity was detected.
                        https://rg.ru/2026/04/07/ochevidec-snial-prolet-krylatyh-raket-ssha-nad-ulicami-tegerana.html?ysclid=mnpm5cdp9n296642780&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2F
                        Quote: rytik32
                        What is the point of tomahawks for air superiority?

                        There are 2 aspects.
                        Aspect 1: Cruise missiles and aviation cooperate with each other, not compete. Neither can cruise missiles completely replace aviation, nor can aviation replace cruise missiles.
                        КР - это способ нанести быстрый и внезапный удар. Попросту говоря, применить КР куда быстрее, чем подготовить к вылету авиагруппу, при том что обнаружить авиагруппу проще, чем КР. Соответственно, к примеру, если речь идет о ликвидации кого-то, чье местонахождение установлено - лучше применить КР
                        Furthermore, the US has gained air superiority over Iran, but dominance is never absolute.
                        Господство в воздухе - решающее превосходство авиации одной из воюющих сторон в воздушном пространстве на театре военных действий. Позволяет войскам и ВМС выполнять боевые задачи без существенного противодействия со стороны авиации и противовоздушной обороны противника

                        Однако "без существенного противодействия" и "совсем без противодействия" - это разные вещи. Господство в воздухе вовсе не означает, что ПВО противника полностью уничтожено. Соответственно, всегда остаются цели, уничтожение которых лучше поручить беспилотным системам, чем гонять туда пилотируемую авиацию.
                        Aspect 2: The US failed to muster sufficient forces to launch a full-scale air offensive against Iran, which was their key mistake in this conflict. They thought they could take the country by storm, but it didn't work. Worse, Iran complicated the use of US bases abroad, so increasing the number of aircraft...is possible, but not immediately and not quickly. And Trump needs a quick victory (or what he can claim is one). Therefore, the Americans were faced with a situation where they had more targets to hit than their air force could handle, so they resorted to the Tomahawks.
                      5. -1
                        April 8 2026 11: 11
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        This is what the IRGC said.

                        И выложил фото обломков сбитых ракет.

                        a way to strike quickly and suddenly

                        This isn't about a tomahawk. An airplane from a base in Jordan will fly faster than a tomahawk from a ship or submarine in the Mediterranean.
                        Томагавки заметны, их можно сбить даже ствольной артиллерией.
                        It's easier to detect an air group than a cruise missile

                        Only under the condition of constant and continuous operation of radars, which, as is known, Iran does not have at the moment
                        Allows troops and navies to carry out combat missions

                        The combat mission to unblock the Strait of Hormuz was never accomplished.
                      6. +3
                        April 8 2026 11: 49
                        Quote: rytik32

                        И выложил фото обломков сбитых ракет.

                        Which might not have been from five missiles, or from other missiles altogether, or not from missiles...
                        Quote: rytik32
                        This isn't about a tomahawk. An airplane from a base in Jordan will fly faster than a tomahawk from a ship or submarine in the Mediterranean.

                        Absolutely not. You're assuming the plane is ready for takeoff at any time and fully equipped, but that's not the case.
                        The risk of encountering air defenses over Tehran remains significant, so you can't simply send an aircraft—you need to ensure it has air and air defense cover. This means, in addition to the strike group, you should also send an air defense clearance group and an air defense suppression group. This is an operation carried out by several aircraft detachments.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Томагавки заметны, их можно сбить даже ствольной артиллерией.

                        Они куда менее заметны, нежели самолеты. А ствольной артой их сбить весьма сложно, впрочем, речь не об этом
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Only under the condition of constant and continuous operation of radars, which, as is known, Iran does not have at the moment

                        Опять не так - группу можно засечь и пассивными средствами (Томагавк сложнее), но самое главное - когда сплошное поле утрачено, это не запрещает прикрывать хотя бы некоторые области. Столица государства явно к таковым относится.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The combat mission to unblock the Strait of Hormuz was never accomplished.

                        Вы не полностью цитируете, что искажает смысл цитаты
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Allows troops and navies to carry out combat missions без существенного противодействия со стороны авиации и противовоздушной обороны противника

                        The problem of unblocking the Strait of Hormuz has nothing to do with the Iranian Air Force and Air Defense
                        And, most importantly, you ignore what I have already written to you.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Therefore, the Americans were faced with the fact that there were more targets to hit than their aircraft were capable of, so the Tomahawks came into play.
                      7. -3
                        April 8 2026 11: 58
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Вы исходите из того, что самолет в любой момент готов к взлету и укомплектован всем необходимым

                        Если есть господство в воздухе, то самолеты взлетают как на конвейере.
                        There are still aircraft on duty, ready for takeoff.
                        Therefore, the Americans were faced with the fact that there were more targets to hit than their aircraft were capable of doing, so the Tomahawks came into play.

                        This statement sounds like: there is not enough asphalt to fill the potholes, so they decided to fill them with gold.

                        В реальности засыпали бомбами цели вдоль границы, но это мало что давало. Поражали цели в глубине ракетами, но ракеты подошли к концу. Попробовали сунуться в глубину авиацией - получили по носу. И всё, вариантов нет! Надо соглашаться на перемирие.
                      8. +3
                        April 8 2026 12: 13
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Если есть господство в воздухе, то самолеты взлетают как на конвейере.

                        This almost never happens, because air superiority doesn't imply the complete destruction of the enemy's air force and air defenses. It simply means the ability to conduct any operation without incurring significant losses.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        There are still aircraft on duty, ready for takeoff.

                        Алексей, атака целей в столице - это серьезная операция, даже когда господство в воздухе достигнуто. Это возможно, причем - возможно практически без потерь, но только в случае предварительного планирования и задействования необходимого наряда сил, который включает в себя и разведку и стратотанкер и проч. Все это не решается дежурными самолетами.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        This statement sounds like: there is not enough asphalt to fill the potholes, so they decided to fill them with gold.

                        And at your leisure, calculate the cost of an air operation. Ten aircraft (and it won't work less) is $300 per hour, 5-6 such hours in the air plus the cost of JDAM
                        Quote: rytik32
                        In reality, they bombed targets along the border.

                        Sorry, but this reality is a bit of an alternative. Completely. However, even if that were the case, Iran's air defenses could easily protect targets along the border. At least from B-52s. If they could protect anything at all, of course...
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Поражали цели в глубине ракетами

                        Nuclear centers are not on the border, but they were bombed with aerial bombs.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Попробовали сунуться в глубину авиацией - получили по носу.

                        Yeah, that's why the F-35 shot down the Yak-130 in an air battle over Tehran.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        And that's it, there are no options!

                        You've painted your own picture of the world. Well, I won't interrupt...
                    2. -3
                      April 7 2026 21: 46
                      Very smart

                      Томагавк стоит 3 млн долларов ,США производят их не более 90 шт в год а потратили на Иран уже почти тыщу из имеющихся семи

                      Умно ,что после такого удачного завоевания неба ,как трещат тут вслед за вами ваши подпевалы из Израиля ,копеечные свободнопадающие бомбы, которыми США и Израиль уже по вашим красочным рассказам засыпают Иран они заменяют Томагавками, потому что такую конгениальную методу практикуют по вашему представлению после достижения господства в воздухе

                      Этот анекдот тоже можете рассказать своей тёще
                      1. +4
                        April 8 2026 11: 51
                        Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
                        Tomahawk costs $3 million

                        2,5 млн
                        Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
                        penny free-fall bombs

                        Calculate at your leisure how much an air operation using “penny free-falling” costs, including taking into account that point targets are hit with free-falling ones, and KAB
                  2. -4
                    April 7 2026 21: 06
                    In my opinion, these propagandists are broadcasting to us from Israel itself.
                    Там уже Иран утюжит их как хочет ,Трамп впал в истерику и верещит от бессилия что кинет на Иран ядерную бомбу ,а у них : "Все хорошо ,прекрасная маркиза "
                  3. +1
                    April 7 2026 22: 24
                    A bridge was recently destroyed in Karaj by a tomahawk, apparently called a GBU31...
                    1. -2
                      April 7 2026 22: 46
                      Quote: RondelR
                      under the name GBU31

                      На фото необычайно четкое изображение падающей бомбы. Она еще каким-то чудом оказалась почти в фокусе. Но если посмотреть на направление тени от солнца, то всё становится ясно: это монтаж. Солнце находилось с другой стороны бомбы относительно камеры.
                      1. 0
                        April 7 2026 23: 37
                        Haha, this is literally a still frame from the video. Another reality denier) Why do you want to live in a fantasy so much?
                      2. 0
                        April 8 2026 00: 05
                        Quote: RondelR
                        still frame from video

                        Post the video from which you took this still frame.
                      3. -1
                        April 8 2026 11: 17
                        So, no video?
                        Реальность оказалась не такой, как вы ожидали?
                      4. 0
                        April 8 2026 14: 43
                        Quote: rytik32
                        So, no video?

                        Looks like this is it
                        https://mskfast.ru/news/udary-ssha-po-vozvodimomu-mostu-v-iranskom-karadzhe/?ysclid=mnpzau92j675653187
                      5. 0
                        April 8 2026 14: 55
                        No, the angle is different.
                        The video certainly shows falling munitions, but it's unclear what they are. Many cruise missiles (including Tomahawks and JASSMs) can also fall almost vertically.
                      6. 0
                        April 8 2026 15: 31
                        Quote: rytik32
                        No, the angle is different.

                        Roughly the same, just maybe the screenshot from the comment above is an AI improvement.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The video certainly shows falling munitions, but it's unclear what they are. Many cruise missiles (including Tomahawks and JASSMs) can also fall almost vertically.

                        Alexey, take a closer look at this from different angles.
                        https://vk.com/clips/music/1097180862_456239035
                        It falls in series of 5 rounds, and they fly tail to tail, Tomahawks won't hit like that.
                      7. 0
                        April 8 2026 18: 31
                        There is no video, it turns out this is a photo from Iranian SNN TV.
                        And it's not a JASSM or a tomahawk, the speed is different, and they make a slide before falling. No need to make things up.
                        Ну или вот вам бомба по тегерану
                        https://t.me/milinfolive/170143
                        Here's an unexploded bomb in Tehran.
                        https://t.me/milinfolive/169340
                        Here are the bombs with submunitions
                        https://t.me/milinfolive/169289
                        Here are the penetrating bombs
                        https://t.me/milinfolive/168884
            2. -4
              April 7 2026 17: 54
              Не 3 самолета
              And 11(!) aircraft in one day
              Do you think they were destroyed with a hunting rifle?
              1. +4
                April 7 2026 18: 01
                3 истребителя потеряно от действий ПВО Ирана у США.
                This is a damaged F35, a shot down F15 and a shot down A10.
    2. +1
      April 8 2026 13: 20
      Quote: RondelR
      When the ground tells them whether or not to launch a missile, what are these "air forces" capable of? When they fly in pairs, and the roof in pairs? What kind of air defense suppression can you even imagine? Air defense suppression is a complex operation, with false targets, decoys, and so on and so forth. It's always essentially improvisation, because it never goes according to plan—it's chaos. And when aviation is strictly centralized, and pilots have zero freedom, well, what's there to talk about? Air defense will never be suppressed.

      I totally agree.
      The force structure has been striking me since the very beginning of the SVO. Judging by FighterBomber's posts, the Laotian Air Force leadership is in utter disarray, with magazines, song contests, a "we have everything" mentality, and beatings for anyone who tries to escalate problems.
  20. +2
    April 7 2026 12: 12
    Well, it's strange, all these things piled together. The Central Bank is headed by Nabiullina, an excellent economics graduate from Moscow State University, and the Ministry of Defense was led by Shoigu—far from a commando, but a seditious one! A thoroughly experienced manager, he was once lauded for "how he dashingly recaptured Crimea and recaptured Palmyra."
    Тем же Министерством войны в США руководит замкомвзвода, из полководческих подвигов которого только пролет мимо гранаты РПГ в Ираке, а во время работы на FOX ведущим метнул топор и чуть не убил барабанщика..."зато воевал" тут не поспоришь...
    Regarding air defense, both Iran's and our own air defenses are built on powerful, highly technological, and expensive radars. Perhaps it would be more practical to build a network of smaller magnetron-based radars—something like those used on ships and yachts, which would be orders of magnitude cheaper. Furthermore, simplified ground-based radar systems, like those on the Su-35, are needed.
    1. 0
      April 7 2026 12: 22
      Quote: Dmitry Eon
      The Central Bank is headed by a graduate of the Moscow State University's economics department.

      "When most of the theory is out of your head, and practical knowledge takes its place, perhaps you will justify half of your salary" (c)
      Экономическое образование и близко не дает навыков управления такими структурами
      Quote: Dmitry Eon
      Shoigu, far from a commando, was in charge of the Ministry of Defense, but he was a very experienced manager.

      А до него - Сердюков. Я и говорю - руководство считает, что для того ,чтобы управлять, профессионалом быть не надо. Только это "немножко" не так - знание специфики архиважно и архиполезно.
      Quote: Dmitry Eon
      The same Ministry of War in the USA is headed by a deputy platoon commander

      Don't confuse these two different command structures. In the US, the Secretary of Defense is essentially the military's representative in politics. He doesn't manage the armed forces, doesn't determine their development direction, or determine future weapons programs. In the US, all of that is handled by military professionals. This structure is common to ALL countries with a civilian Secretary of Defense.
      Another model is when the Minister of Defense is the supreme commander-in-chief after the president, meaning he directly controls the Defense Ministry. And in countries that have adopted this model, the Minister of Defense is always a military man.
      And only we managed to take a model in which the Minister of Defense controls the Armed Forces and... put a civilian there wassat
      1. 0
        April 7 2026 12: 46
        Я думаю здесь подход определяется попыткой избежать некого лоббизма. Только если в США это "демократы/республиканцы" то у нас раньше были слухи типа "Министр выходец из ВДВ - продвигает ВДВ", или "выходец из ВПК -продвигает интересы ВПК". Поэтому ту же Набиуллину продвинули из МинЭка в ЦБ (по сути антагонисты), а Сердюкова с поста налоговика в МинОбороны, после скандала на должность в ВПК (так же антагонисты)
        1. 0
          April 7 2026 13: 53
          Quote: Dmitry Eon
          I think the approach here is determined by an attempt to avoid some kind of lobbying.

          It is quite possible, but the price for this - the inefficiency of the system as a whole - is too high.
  21. -1
    April 7 2026 13: 55
    author
    Regarding cannon artillery, Iran still places great emphasis on it. For example, in 2009, the 100mm Saeer anti-aircraft gun was adopted. A battery of these guns is centrally controlled from a command post, the guns themselves fire unmanned, but they are capable of firing 60 shells per minute to an altitude of 15 km and a range of 21 km. Of course, all of this is hopelessly outdated, and the Saeer's effectiveness is highly questionable.

    US experience during WW2 shows that if you use projectiles with radio fuses, then it is quite possible to shoot down drones, except at the lowest altitudes.
    It's more difficult at transonic speeds and above, but you can still get hurt there. Another thing is that a jet is quite resilient to shrapnel.
    1. -1
      April 7 2026 14: 50
      Quote: multicaat
      опыт США во время ww2 говорит, что если использовать снаряды с радиовзрывателем, то дроны вполне себе сбивать можно

      And what drones did the US shoot down in WWII?
      1. 0
        April 7 2026 14: 57
        What do drones have to do with this? The parameters of the aerial targets were similar.
        Глобал хоук вполне сопоставим с Б-24 или истребитель-камикадзе, как цель, а их пушки вполне себе доставали.
        For a gun, it doesn't matter how the apparatus is controlled, only its flight characteristics are important.
        1. -2
          April 7 2026 15: 24
          Quote: multicaat
          при чем тут дроны?

          Here I am about the same
          Quote: multicaat
          Параметры воздушных целей были близки.

          Yep. The Nakamura B5N has a wingspan of 15,5 m, a length of 10,2 m, a height of 3,7 m, and a takeoff weight of 3,7 tons.
          У БПЛА Герань - размах крыльев - 2,5 м, длина - 3,5 м, взлетная масса - 200 кг.
          Exactly the same wink
          Quote: multicaat
          Global Hawk

          Such UAVs do not usually fly in enemy airspace - they are not designed for this
          1. 0
            April 7 2026 16: 04
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Yep. The Nakamura B5N has a wingspan of 15,5 m, a length of 10,2 m, a height of 3,7 m, and a takeoff weight of 3,7 tons.
            У БПЛА Герань - размах крыльев - 2,5 м, длина - 3,5 м, взлетная масса - 200 кг.
            Exactly the same

            если речь о таких дронах, тут важна их скорость и расстояние.
            The B5N is 3 times faster and flies further, so it's even easier to hit the geranium.
            А как японцев жгли - полно хроники
            Well, the mass hardly affects the accuracy of the gun. tongue
            1. 0
              April 7 2026 17: 36
              Quote: multicaat
              B5N is 3 times faster

              B5N - 365 km/h, but that's unlikely with a torpedo.
              Geranium - 180 km/h, so at best it's twice as fast
              Quote: multicaat
              А как японцев жгли - полно хроники

              Вопрос только в том, что на 1 сбитый самолет тратилось в среднем ЕМНИП порядка 900 снарядов с радиовзрывателем. Поэтому японцев жгли, когда масса кораблей концентрировала огонь из массы стволов. Так что если Вы готовы каждый объект прикрывать с каждой стороны 5-7 батареями таких орудий, подпирая их десятками скорострельных автоматов....
              1. 0
                April 8 2026 08: 46
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                B5N - 365 km/h, but that's unlikely with a torpedo.

                I'm talking about the kamikazes, who descended downwards, gaining speed.
                1. 0
                  April 8 2026 09: 09
                  Quote: multicaat
                  I'm talking about the kamikazes, who descended downwards, gaining speed.

                  So, when Geranium descends, it also picks up speed:)))))
                  1. 0
                    April 8 2026 09: 11
                    стреляют -то в Герань не когда она пикирует, а чутка пораньше
                    and why are you even picking on it? Are there no other targets in the air?
                    1. 0
                      April 8 2026 09: 17
                      Quote: multicaat
                      стреляют -то в Герань не когда она пикирует, а чутка пораньше

                      так и в камикадзе тоже. Они, знаете ли, не в 15 км пикировать начинали:))))
                      Quote: multicaat
                      and why are you even picking on it? Are there no other targets in the air?

                      You yourself wrote about UAVs - and these are typical UAV targets.
        2. 0
          April 7 2026 16: 13
          Quote: multicaat
          Глобал хоук вполне сопоставим с Б-24 или истребитель-камикадзе, как цель, а их пушки вполне себе доставали.

          The Global Hawk operates at altitudes of 15-17 kilometers. This is twice as high as Fortresses or Liberators, and roughly equal to the ceiling of a 100mm anti-aircraft gun. This means you'll have to work very hard to catch the UAV in a narrow arc at the very top of the fire zone.
          1. 0
            April 7 2026 16: 24
            1 сбит ракетой, причем на высотах явно сильно ниже 17 км. Полагаю, они регулярно входят в доступные для поражения высоты. К тому же я просто привел пример многий из лишь максимально близкий по размерам к б24. В воздухе полно других БПЛА, которые летают сильно ниже. Например, израильский с кассетами кумулятивных боеприпасов и куча разведывательных.
  22. +1
    April 7 2026 13: 56
    В Югославии подтвержденные со стороны НАТО американские потери оказались много меньше — 4 самолета и 2 вертолета. При этом в бою США потеряли только 2 самолета, остальные — от небоевых причин.

    В Югославии в первий раз более 90 % используемих авиации боеприпасов били управляемие и впервие вьилетов БЛА било не менее чем боевих вьилетов пилотируемих ЛА. Пилотируемая авиация очень мало летала над вражеской територии и практически не использовала обичних бомб. По етой причине БЛА, крилатие ракети и управлемие бомби понесли основние потери от ПВО.
  23. -4
    April 7 2026 15: 16
    The Americans, like ours, however, have not noticed the structural shifts in the organization of air defense among their opponents.

    Throughout the history of the standoff between combat aviation and air defense, it's always been the case that one side puts the other in a difficult position. After Vietnam, it seemed that air defense was about to destroy strike aircraft, but the opposite happened. And after Iraq, it seemed that air defense was incapable of countering air power, and no one noticed how everything has turned upside down today. The same thing is happening in world football, where attack and defense reign supreme, and neither the average fan nor even a leading expert can figure out which of these two approaches is more effective.

    The US, as before, found itself in just such a period of time's spiral, acting in the usual old-fashioned way, and got burned.

    So what next?

    And then you'll have to change everything and stop relying on air defenses not to get you when you think you've captured the sky. There will be no more walking over heads or horizontal bombing; you'll have to get used to it.

    Время разбрасывать камни и время собирать их
    1. +1
      April 7 2026 15: 29
      Quote: Sergey Mitinsky
      The US, as before, found itself in just such a period of time's spiral, acting in the usual old-fashioned way, and got burned.

      Ага. И авианосцы все утонули:)))))
      You've got the wrong website. This is the right place - https://alternathistory.ru/
      1. -3
        April 7 2026 15: 32
        They didn't drown.
        Они вовремя сбежали предварительно почистив военный бюджет Пентагона на десятки миллиардов долларов
      2. +3
        April 7 2026 19: 54
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        You've got the wrong website. This is the right place - https://alternathistory.ru/

        Вы пошто так Андрей! И так там от ИИ уже проходу нет, а Вы еще таким персонажам рекламу сайта предоставляете! Астановитесь am
  24. +1
    April 7 2026 18: 13
    Key words: in Yugoslavia, the number of NATO combat aircraft reached 1000. And in Iraq in 1991, there were more than 2000. In other words, losses of 20-30, or even 40 aircraft, would not have been fatal for such a group.
    For the Russian Air Force, such losses would be catastrophic, leading to a complete loss of combat capability.
    Ибо четверть века талдычили, что это "презренному совку" были нужны многие сотни ударных самолётов каждого типа. А вот "компактной контрактной армии" за глаз хватит 50-60 Су-34, чтобы победить пресловутый "международный терроризм". Возможность противостояние с НАТО передавалась анафеме. Возможность межгосударственного военного столкновения тоже.
    Ultimately, we see what we see. Russian aviation is incapable of performing any of the tasks required of combat aviation, as the cost of accomplishing such a task would be Pyrrhic.
    1. +1
      April 7 2026 19: 38
      Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
      For the Russian Air Force, such losses would be catastrophic, leading to a complete loss of combat capability.

      So we have already lost no less, but we have not won the war...
      1. 0
        April 7 2026 20: 26
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        So we have already lost no less, but we have not won the war.

        The aviation industry does not stand still, planes are produced...

        Андрей, в начале СВО никто не думал о большой и "полноценной" войне. И авиация готовилась соответствующе. В начале СВО наша авиация выполнила свои цели: авиация и ПВО противника были подавлены, колонны подошли к Киеву без угроз с воздуха.
        А дальше - закономерное откатывание авиации к линии фронта, т.к. противник стал приводить в порядок ПВО. К сожалению, наша авиация была малочисленна, чтобы даже пытаться бороться за господство. А с ударными БПЛА, которые США и Израиль сейчас активно использует, у нас большая беда.
        1. +1
          April 7 2026 21: 02
          Quote: rytik32
          В начале СВО наша авиация выполнила свои цели: авиация и ПВО противника были подавлены,

          There has never been such a thing
          1. 0
            April 7 2026 21: 21
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            There has never been such a thing

            Наша авиация свободно летала по левобережью и даже на Западню Украину эпизодически залетала.
            1. +1
              April 7 2026 22: 16
              Quote: rytik32
              Наша авиация свободно летала по левобережью и даже на Западню Украину эпизодически залетала.

              True, in the first days. And, having suffered severely from the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces' air defense, it soon stopped flying. This is in no way
              Quote: rytik32
              The enemy's aviation and air defense were suppressed, and the columns approached Kyiv without air threats.

              Десант в Гостомеле был образцом военного искусства, как наши вертолеты протиснулись сквозь неподавленное ПВО ВСУ. И подавить его не удалось - планом операции подразумевалась переброска 18-20 Ил-76 с десантом в Гостомель после его занятия десантом с вертолетов. К счастью, понимание пришло быстро и их не отправили, так как эти самолеты были бы уничтожены. Пришлось вести поддержку колоннами по земле.
              This is the kind of "suppressed air defense" the Ukrainian Armed Forces had in the early days of the SVO
              1. +1
                April 7 2026 22: 32
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                This is the kind of "suppressed air defense" the Ukrainian Armed Forces had in the early days of the SVO

                The airstrip in Gostomel was under artillery fire, so there was no point in sending the Il-76 there. Our aircraft (both planes and helicopters) were operating near Gostomel, providing support.
                1. +3
                  April 8 2026 09: 15
                  Quote: rytik32
                  ВВП в Гостомеле находилась под арт огнем, поэтому Ил-76 туда гнать не было смысла

                  That is not the reason.
                  Вариант 1 Никогда планами десанта в Гостомель не предусматривалось захватить плацдарм в несколько десятков километров диаметром, чтобы исключить возможность артобстрела ВПП в Гостомеле. То есть изначально планировалось высаживать десант на Ил-ах на аэродром, находящийся в радиусе действия артиллерии ВСУ.
                  Вариант 2 Могу предположить также, что предполагалось подавить артиллерию вокруг Гостомеля с воздуха. Господство в воздухе завоевать не удалось, арта не была подавлена = десант на Ил-ах отменили
  25. +1
    April 8 2026 09: 16
    What if third-country AWACS aircraft were flying around Iran and providing guidance to Iran's air defense systems, which are in passive mode?
    1. +1
      April 8 2026 11: 52
      Quote: Zaurbek
      А Если бы , вокруг ИРИ летали самолет ДРЛО третьих стран

      That would be nice...
  26. 0
    April 8 2026 10: 19
    Quote: rytik32
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    So we have already lost no less, but we have not won the war.

    The aviation industry does not stand still, planes are produced...

    Андрей, в начале СВО никто не думал о большой и "полноценной" войне. И авиация готовилась соответствующе. В начале СВО наша авиация выполнила свои цели: авиация и ПВО противника были подавлены, колонны подошли к Киеву без угроз с воздуха.
    А дальше - закономерное откатывание авиации к линии фронта, т.к. противник стал приводить в порядок ПВО. К сожалению, наша авиация была малочисленна, чтобы даже пытаться бороться за господство. А с ударными БПЛА, которые США и Израиль сейчас активно использует, у нас большая беда.

    Unfortunately, the Ukrainian Reich's air defenses were only partially neutralized. As soon as the Ukrainian Wehrmacht became a source of information for NATO, the surviving air defenses of the Ukrainian Wehrmacht, coupled with Western-supplied air defense systems, closed the skies over the Ukrainian Reich to our Air Force.
  27. 0
    April 8 2026 10: 21
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
    For the Russian Air Force, such losses would be catastrophic, leading to a complete loss of combat capability.

    So we have already lost no less, but we have not won the war...

    You don't compare the losses of a dozen and a half aircraft over FOUR years of war with the one-time losses that could have been incurred during a large-scale air operation.
    1. +1
      April 8 2026 11: 56
      Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
      You don't compare the losses of a dozen and a half aircraft in FOUR years of war

      Do you think we lost 18 planes? That's optimistic...
      Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
      and one-time losses

      Tolerable. The Russian Aerospace Forces had up to 1,000 aircraft in the fighter and bomber operational-tactical roles.
  28. 0
    Yesterday, 15: 00
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
    You don't compare the losses of a dozen and a half aircraft in FOUR years of war

    Do you think we lost 18 planes? That's optimistic...
    Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
    and one-time losses

    Tolerable. The Russian Aerospace Forces had up to 1,000 aircraft in the fighter and bomber operational-tactical roles.

    Я вас умоляю, 1000... До 2020 года поставки Су-34 - 83 единицы, Су-35 90 или 94 машины. Су-25 оставалось менее сотни, потому что их в нулевые годы и в 10-е списывали беспощадно. Су-24 тоже менее сотни - типа, устаревший, а против "бармалеев" нам и двух экадрилий Су-34 хватит.
    Если считать 1000, вместе с транспортниками, включая древние Ан-26 и прочие, с учебным без вооружения, с вертолётами, тогда может быть и подползет цифра к этому числу.
    So don’t be fooled, don’t delude yourself with unrealistic figures.
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 17: 43
      Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
      I beg of you

      On knees! laughing (joke)
      Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
      By 2020, 83 Su-34s had been delivered, while 90 or 94 Su-35s had been delivered. Fewer than 100 Su-25s remained, as they were mercilessly decommissioned in the 2000s and 2010s. Fewer than 100 Su-24s were also delivered.

      Not at all.
      К началу СВО было поставлено новых самолетов Су-57 - 10, Су-35 - 108, Су-30М всех модификаций - 144, Су-34 - 145, Миг-29 и 35 разных модификаций - 83. Итого - 490 самолетов. Прибавьте к этому имеющихся до сотни или больше Су-27, штук 20 Су-33, штук 30 минимум МиГ-29 и штук 150 МиГ-31, плюс те же Су-25 поболее сотни, и, возможно, немного Су-24
  29. 0
    Yesterday, 22: 16
    То что ПВО не подавлена за 5 лет войны, нельзя обьяснить командиром, который был когда то. И ладно бы только это!
    To me, everything clearly adds up to a general, unsightly picture, in which broad strokes are drawn of deals regarding Odessa and the failure to strike energy infrastructure, decision-making centers, military registration and enlistment offices, and so on.