Military Review

Patriarch in China: from Schwarzenegger to Bruce Willis

272
China is Russia's only strong ally on the world stage. If we do not unite in the face of coalitions trying to play the role of decision makers in the world, then our countries can wait for the implementation of scenarios implemented, for example, in Libya and Syria ... Do you think that I exaggerate?


For example, I am alarmed by the fact that in the last box office blockbusters with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Angelina Jolie, Tom Cruise and Bruce Ullis in the lead roles, the fighting takes place on the territory of Russia. And in Moscow, according to the idea of ​​foreign screenwriters, just some kind of den of world terrorism. Does it scare you that the image of world evil is being molded from Moscow again?

So, back to our allies - the Chinese. Remember which countries blocked the invasion projects in Libya and Syria, which they aggressively dragged through the UN? That's right, Russia and China. Therefore, I am just sure that we should try to find as much as possible in common between our countries, and not only in foreign policy. One of these moments may be Russian Orthodoxy.

China v. Fifth column

Many have probably heard that His Holiness the Patriarch is now in China. But few people guess what strategic task the head of the Russian Church is facing. I am confident that before the head of the Church is quite clear geopolitical goal. Now I will try to explain how I understand it.

Today in China, Orthodoxy is in its infancy. And this is not surprising. The Chinese authorities do not want to warm the fifth column in the form of this or that confession with a center in a foreign country. Therefore, in China, foreign priests can serve only for foreigners, but not for the Chinese. The main condition for the performance of religious services for Chinese citizens is the Chinese nationality of the clergyman.

Unfortunately, the last Chinese Orthodox priest died, if I'm not mistaken, at the beginning of 2000's. So the Chinese Orthodox Church is inherently decapitated. Orthodox communities in China are, roughly speaking, hobby groups in which members do not have the opportunity to receive church ordinances. And to ensure that the Chinese suddenly did not receive these sacraments from the hands of foreign priests, the state administration on religious affairs strictly observes. For example, when last summer the Orthodox Chinese from Harbin came to visit Blagoveshchensk - their representative did not give "good" for communion of the Harbin people in the Russian church.

Christian boom and profit of Russia

According to experts, China is now experiencing a Christian boom. Statistics show an increase in adherents of Catholicism and Protestantism among the Chinese. And it is justified. Both Catholics and Lutherans in China have their episcopal Chinese and Chinese priests, which means that they can officially serve for the citizens of the PRC. Unfortunately, Orthodox Christians in this regard are all neglected.

Met philistine replicas. Say, the Moscow patriarch came to expand his sphere of influence. But the hypothesis is untenable, since the Russian Orthodox Church granted full autonomy to the Chinese Orthodox Church as early as the 50 of the 20 century. Speaking in narrow-minded terms, the Russian Church will have nothing to do with it. But in geopolitical terms, the benefit for all of Russia is simply invaluable.

If you explain it on your fingers, then an Orthodox Chinese against an Orthodox Russian will not conceive anything bad. After all, Orthodoxy without exaggeration is the national code for Russia. And if this code is integrated into the consciousness of the Chinese, the relations between China and Russia will reach a qualitatively new level. Maybe it sounds a little naive, but I'm sure that it will be so.

PS I did not consider in this publication the spiritual consequences of the development of Orthodoxy in China, because I consider that they are simply obvious.
Originator:
http://diak-svyatoslav.livejournal.com/
272 comments
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  1. fortunophile
    fortunophile 16 May 2013 15: 13 New
    +4
    Yesterday I watched a report from China about the opening of the Temple, a large number of parishioners were struck. Although the church is separated from the state, it pursues the policy it needs, receiving gratitude in response (there are many, from returning lands to “judicial” punishment of small pieces). If there is an opportunity with the help of religion to influence a part of the Chinese, then it would be foolish not to use this opportunity hi
  2. riding
    riding 16 May 2013 15: 18 New
    +2
    Quote: ... which countries blocked the invasion projects in Libya and Syria?
    Only Russia did not block something in Libya, then Medvedev acted contrary to Russia's national interests.
    The Orthodox Chinese is, of course, interesting. They Chinese are quite mobile. But this is a project with a very distant future. And time is running out.
    1. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 15: 24 New
      +4
      The story of Libya is a textbook example of how faith in "paper contracts" can leave no destiny. I see the picture ... Chew ... DAM carefully examines the paper, like a lawyer and takes pride in its legal diligence ... Chew ... Omerygunssy throw, through a comma DAM, like a sambist, through the thigh ...
      They just made it. Maybe DAM didn’t want to "merge" Gaddafi, but he was "thrown" by Obama & kko, through a loophole in the resolution ... Nothing personal, just DAM is such a visionary "lawyer".
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. dmitreach
        dmitreach 16 May 2013 15: 40 New
        +2
        Here is the difference in interpretation, and the one that later began to happen is the development of surrealism. That's what DAM was lit up on. And you don’t seem to mind .... Everything is black and white ... But the interpretation is different ...
        Bamazhka here:
        http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N11/268/41/PDF/N1126841.pdf?OpenEleme
        nt

        And in the section "no-fly zone" - all the same dances with a tambourine!
      3. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 16 May 2013 15: 43 New
        +7
        Quote: dmitreach
        .. Nothing personal, just DAM such a visionary "lawyer".

        You are so naive and still believe that Medvedev alone made the decision, and Putin was so ... standing aside?
        1. dmitreach
          dmitreach 16 May 2013 16: 12 New
          -3
          You are so naive and still believe that Medvedev alone made the decision, and Putin was so ... standing aside?

          oh shch!
          They threw the entire Russian army. (political) In fact-unconditionally.
          Only then did they believe in contracts, in particular, from the filing of DAM. He is a lawyer in a way of thinking, more than GDP. He was at the helm (given to steer) and promoted the idea. And by the way, still promoting. Russia still presses on legal agreements. The same "Faberge side view" is happening in Syria. Only "the ball in our clearing." In particular, because of the lesson in Libya.
          But even then, Putin called himself “crusades,” from which Peskov denied himself ... Forgot too?

          Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, while developing Russia's official position on a UN Security Council resolution on the situation in Libya, tended to support the decision on the possibility of military intervention in the course of the civil war in Libya.

          At the same time, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was considering the possibility of vetoing resolution No. 1973, which in fact opened the way to armed intervention. Ultimately, according to Kommersant, a compromise was reached between the two points of view, and Russia abstained from voting on the resolution.

          Meanwhile, Dmitry Medvedev’s spokeswoman, Natalya Timakova, told the newspaper that the Kremlin’s position has always been consistent and has no divergence.


          "Russia did not use (the veto right) for one reason - I do not think this resolution is wrong, moreover, I believe that this resolution as a whole reflects our understanding of what is happening in Libya, but not in everything, therefore we did not use our veto right , and it was a qualified refusal to veto, "said Medvedev.


          His self-confidence failed. Not that the "Big Brother" was leaning over his shoulder. Is it not clear? Or is it easier to believe in the ubiquity of GDP?
          The foreign media then came up with a * basic idea about the "split" between the line of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Lavrov) vs DAM.
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 16: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: dmitreach

            Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, while developing Russia's official position on a UN Security Council resolution on the situation in Libya, tended to support the decision on the possibility of military intervention in the course of the civil war in Libya.

            Something I did not find this article in the media. Do not give a link, where did you get it?
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 16: 28 New
              +1
              http://russiabox.ru/politika/medvedev-prinyal-rezoliutsiiu-po-livii
              some news portal ... you can dig into the archives of Kommersant and Lenta.s * u
              but the video from youtube is more fun, due to the presence of the DAM face in the frame.
              (UN Security Council Resolution on Libya - Putin VS Medvedev)
          2. dmitreach
            dmitreach 16 May 2013 16: 22 New
            +2
            miracles of tyrnetes
            1. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 16 May 2013 16: 29 New
              +1

              Found a full interview.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D75_FPPjBho
              1. dmitreach
                dmitreach 16 May 2013 16: 33 New
                0
                Well, yes ... the wonders of editing and 3D graphics, but in the frame it’s not at all what we see / hear ... because it is cut out of the “sacred context”. laughing
            2. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 16: 31 New
              0
              Alexander Romanov , who was broadcasting about my naivety there? Is there any objection to the subject?
            3. Nicholas C.
              Nicholas C. 16 May 2013 17: 28 New
              +3
              Thanks for the link. Clearly. I remember both performances separately. It is immediately clear whether this is a tandem, or Medved is still a mishandled Cossack.

              It’s useful to see another thing about this:
              1. dmitreach
                dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 31 New
                0
                All the same, tandem. The dispute may be among the bosses. Yes, even to the point of screaming with obscenities, if only there would be no sense like in Libya. So this example shows that there are living people. The pope is not mistaken. Religion does not allow him. He is by definition: "sinless." If you need "saints", then you should not look for them among politicians.
            4. Scoun
              Scoun 16 May 2013 19: 28 New
              0
              Medvedev deliberately leaked Libya.
          3. Scoun
            Scoun 16 May 2013 19: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: dmitreach
            Or is it easier to believe in the ubiquity of GDP?

            Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, while at his residence in Gorki, criticized the rhetoric of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and stated that it is necessary to be “as accurate as possible in the statements that characterize the events in Libya”.

            According to Medvedev, quoted by news agencies, “in no case is it unacceptable to use expressions that essentially lead to a clash of civilizations such as the“ crusades ”and so on. This is unacceptable. Otherwise, everything can end much worse than it even happens. Everyone should remember this. ”

            Vladimir Putin compared the UN Security Council resolution against Libya with medieval calls for a crusade during a working trip to Udmurtia. According to him, the international resolution on Libya “is inferior and defective”: “it allows the invasion of a sovereign country. This is reminiscent of a medieval call for crusades. ”
      4. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 May 2013 16: 04 New
        +8
        Academic atheist Zhores Alferov defended the Russian Orthodox Church.

        J.I. Alferov: “I have a very simple and kind attitude towards the Russian Orthodox Church,” because "The Orthodox Church defends the unity of the Slavs". Zhores Ivanovich recalled that "over the past two decades, the Slavic world has suffered enormous losses: Yugoslavia was defeated, the great triumvirate of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus ceased to exist. Organically, I am an internationalist ... but the Slavs suffered huge losses. I remember how during the war , especially after 1943, our fighters went on the attack not so much shouting "for Stalin", but with the words "Forward, Slavs!"

        Zhores Alferov also said that he has many friends among the priests, including in St. Petersburg. Religion, according to Alferov, is able to find with science a lot of common points in preserving morality and morality, improving society.

        http://www.echosevera.ru/news/2012/04/19/3560.html

      5. Scoun
        Scoun 16 May 2013 19: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: dmitreach
        Maybe DAM did not want to "merge" Gaddafi


        Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, while at his residence in Gorki, criticized the rhetoric of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and stated that it is necessary to be “as accurate as possible in the statements that characterize the events in Libya”.

        According to Medvedev, quoted by news agencies, “in no case is it unacceptable to use expressions that essentially lead to a clash of civilizations such as the“ crusades ”and so on. This is unacceptable. Otherwise, everything can end much worse than it even happens. Everyone should remember this. ”

        Vladimir Putin compared the UN Security Council resolution against Libya with medieval calls for a crusade during a working trip to Udmurtia. According to him, the international resolution on Libya “is inferior and defective”: “it allows the invasion of a sovereign country. This is reminiscent of a medieval call for crusades. ”
        1. dmitreach
          dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 53 New
          0
          I showed the same thing with you tube.
          Meant: "maybe did not wish merge"the way it happened. With dancing in the circle of the corpse.
  3. dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 15: 19 New
    +1
    Yoshchkin cat! I have one impression that Orthodoxy is served from the point of view of Geo-Politics ...?
    1. Joker
      Joker 16 May 2013 15: 33 New
      +5
      Well, actually, faith has always been an integral part of politics, from the very moment of the adoption of Orthodoxy in Russia, it played an important role in the country's politics, therefore, as presented in this article, it is quite a normal event, if it succeeds in promoting Orthodoxy in China, it will unite our countries, so whatever one may say, people are drawn to the one who is more similar to them. So I approve of such a measure, the main thing is not to bring everything to fanaticism as it was in Russia, otherwise we love to break everything, and for example, I would be interested to know what the traditions in Russia really were, what role the idols played, etc. moreover, I would like to know historically reliable facts, and not just what the current church is pushing for us. But unfortunately, there’s no way to find out, because we, with the zeal characteristic of our people, love to destroy everything old at every turn, instead of storing it as a piece of our history. and then everyone cries that they are changing our history, so how can it not be changed if our ancestors themselves destroyed it.
      1. Joker
        Joker 16 May 2013 16: 33 New
        +1
        Can minusers refute my words?
        1. dmitreach
          dmitreach 16 May 2013 16: 47 New
          +2
          Well, actually, faith has always been an integral part of politics, from the very moment of the adoption of Orthodoxy in Russia, it played an important role in the country's politics

          Somewhere in the same vein, I think. Well, at the time of Vladimir there weren’t all the popular ideas of "democratic human rights." I chose Orthodoxy.
          Can minusers refute my words?

          I will assume that this character with a talking avatar ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 17: 09 New
              +1
              It would be better if the one who minusanul objected in essence.smile
              the adoption of Orthodoxy was an exclusively political move.

              When fighting clan tribes are at your side, you need glue. In the 3rd century AD Emperor Constantine chose Christianity. In the 9th century, Vladimir was Orthodoxy. Politics ... she is so ...
              1. does it
                does it 16 May 2013 21: 01 New
                +1
                Quote: dmitreach
                In the 3rd century AD Emperor Constantine chose Christianity. In the 9th century, Vladimir was Orthodoxy. Politics ... she is so ...

                The Roman Empire was torn apart by civil wars and riots of slaves. It was necessary that something would hold society together. Since Christians, if you believe the stories were in the majority, and their religion was convenient for the exploiting ruling class. Emperor Constantine chose it. Our religion was chosen because that the Byzantine Empire, thanks to it, lasted a long time.
                1. dmitreach
                  dmitreach 16 May 2013 21: 16 New
                  -1
                  The Roman Empire was torn apart by civil wars and riots of slaves. It was necessary that something would hold society together. Since Christians, if you believe the stories were in the majority, and their religion was convenient for the exploiting ruling class. Emperor Constantine chose it. Our religion was chosen because that the Byzantine Empire, thanks to it, lasted a long time.

                  so that's the point.
                  Although Vladimir had a topic of clan separatism, the same thing stood. In addition to trade with "developed countries."
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. Vadivak
                Vadivak 16 May 2013 17: 25 New
                +4
                Quote: GreatRussia
                Here it is! And what evidence do you have, sir?


                Also me Binom Newton, moderators see who and what
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 28 New
                  +1
                  The Master and Margarita - the eternal book! laughing Sorry for the offtopic.
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                      5. alexandr00070
                        alexandr00070 16 May 2013 18: 07 New
                        +3
                        Quote: fortuneophile
                        You are funny to me. I’m afraid to make a mistake (maybe when it was), but in my opinion (with reservations, I could have sprinkled somewhere) I haven’t set anyone and not a single minus. Well, somehow it’s not in my style, or even amuse myself sometimes looking like they’re minus me, maybe a masochist, or maybe he’s been ill with these fetish “cardboard” epaulets

                        Guys on the topic can begin to speak, on the person go to the "PM". And then an hour of some measurements long
                      6. Joker
                        Joker 16 May 2013 18: 11 New
                        +2
                        I fully support.
              2. Iraclius
                Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 43 New
                -2
                It would be funny if comrade GreatRussia also confessed to believers. And then he began to lie. laughing It was ridiculous and ridiculous. Thanks to Vadim for the day! good laughing
                Actually, there is nothing strange here.
                I, here, thought that the patriarch would be better off not wandering around different China, but would organize a fundraiser to help veterans of the Great Patriotic War by May 9. Then the affairs of the church and him personally would be visible.
              3. Joker
                Joker 16 May 2013 17: 46 New
                +2
                So, I thought that the patriarch would be better off not wandering around China, but would organize a fundraiser to help veterans of the Great Patriotic War by May 9. Then the affairs of the church and him personally would be visible.

                And even better, I would combine both. All the same, Orthodoxy in China is politically beneficial.
              4. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 16 May 2013 17: 48 New
                +1
                Quote: Iraclius
                organized a fundraiser to help veterans of the Great Patriotic War by May 9.

                maybe from what they’ve already gathered (judging by the hours and apartments and cars) they shared a little bit, a dozen
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        2. Seraph
          Seraph 22 May 2013 04: 09 New
          0
          You, dear Teuton, in vain slander the Patriarch, Orthodoxy and the Orthodox. You are not aware that you are thereby working for the enemies of the Fatherland? "After the collapse of the USSR, we still have one enemy - Orthodoxy" does not mean anything? Brzezinski, I recall, is our "friend."
          Are you sure that the Patriarch, the Church in the person of dioceses, parishes, monasteries, individual clergy and parishioners do not help veterans? We need to beat ourselves in the chest, crack in the media and speak at the corners and at the grooves of how good we are? From your position - we say it means proud, we are silent means we are not doing anything. Why is there so much bile against the faith of grandfathers and against Christ? Read less about the liberal press, which is fanning an anti-church scandal from every little thing.
          And yes, I am a believing Orthodox Christian. Will you call me something too? I am also a clergyman. If you like, I’ll give you my address and phone number so that it’s handy to spit and insult. By the way, I live in Moscow, if you please.
          Another request: tell us how you personally helped the war veterans?
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      4. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 16 May 2013 18: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: alexandr00070
        After disputes, you can jump off and issue a warning

        I'll make it!
        Quote: alexandr00070
        (I have two, including yours) x

        You are mistaken, I set both warnings for you and both for insulting feelings of the believer, which is forbidden by the rules of Sait.
        Quote: alexandr00070
        so the second bummer

        Oh well
      5. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 16 May 2013 19: 24 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        You are mistaken, I set both warnings for you and both for insulting feelings of the believer, which is forbidden by the rules of Sait.

        well, when you call someone a pagan and pour all your righteous Christian anger into non-Christians, in every way proving that there is one point of view that is correct, yours, and when the arguments end, issue a warning, this is not entirely honest, but roughly speaking dishonest. Therefore, protect me from your comments, anyway you will not play according to the rules
      6. Joker
        Joker 16 May 2013 19: 36 New
        +2
        And I like to argue with Sasha on this subject and with Esaul about Putinwink The main thing is not to insult believers and not to call slaves, and there will be no warnings. Discussions and disputes on the site are welcome, but only on the topic.
      7. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 16 May 2013 19: 57 New
        -1
        Quote: Joker
        And I like to argue with Sasha on this subject and with Esaul about Putin. The main thing is not to insult believers and not to call slaves, and there will be no warnings. Discussions and disputes on the site are welcome, but only on the topic.

        Yes, “Sashka” differentially approaches the debaters, he forgave you for the attacks on Cyril in the video about the Slavic barbarians, but he would have hooked me, but he would have issued a warning about weighing with gold and attacking the priests. I was then offered to complain to the administrator that I had issued a warning for nonsense, but I recently want to see the development of events, especially since he now boasts that he issued all warnings to me and by the way after a dispute with him, so now I have to copy my comments, can help when
      8. Joker
        Joker 16 May 2013 20: 09 New
        0
        Strange, I didn’t notice this behind Sasha. If I do not agree with the warnings, I can tell administrators that they will be deleted, this is written in the site’s rules.
      9. fortunophile
        fortunophile 16 May 2013 20: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: Joker
        Strange, I didn’t notice this behind Sasha. If I do not agree with the warnings, I can tell administrators that they will be deleted, this is written in the site’s rules.

        Oleg and Sanya do not worry. What for are you succumbed to the provocation? You work, we write and sometimes shit, you poke us in this guano and we understand that not everyone is pleased when .... In short, I propose to close the dispute, wipe the comments and live on happily and “democratically”. drinks Be the first to comment on this, pliz bully
      10. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 May 2013 06: 15 New
        +3
        Quote: Joker
        If I do not agree with the warnings, I can tell administrators that they will be deleted, this is written in the site’s rules.

        Oleg, religion is a complicated topic, and before issuing warnings, I often argue with Smirnov and prove this or that point of view. And this 00070 and two others with him were engaged in glorification of perun before it became known later that they were sectarians whose activities were prohibited in the territory of the Russian Federation by a court decision. One was banned, but 00070 and GG2012 remained on the site, but they no longer exhibited sectarian images. By the way their criminal leader is over laughing
      11. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 17 May 2013 06: 58 New
        -3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And this 00070 and two others with him were engaged in glorification of perun before it became known later that they were sectarians whose activities were prohibited in the territory of the Russian Federation by a court decision. One was banned, but 00070 and GG2012 remained on the site, but they no longer exhibited sectarian images. By the way their criminal leader is over

        You need to be treated by a respected one, and how you can argue with such thoughts and conclusions from my phrases, why do you need to talk about it, peruns, criminals, a nightmare. You gave me a warning for an argument like this, no more, no less, now at least it’s a little clear what a person has in his head.
  4. Seraph
    Seraph 22 May 2013 04: 20 New
    -1
    And you, my friend, aren’t accidentally masked by Gozman or Nevzorov, that you talk so authoritatively about “priests”? Where does this awareness come from? And about the "little gold" in the know? They themselves probably climbed into the altar at night behind him?
  5. Seraph
    Seraph 23 May 2013 01: 30 New
    0
    Who argues from the Russians does not like! The main thing is not to bring bloodshed. Sometimes I even get the thought that it would be interesting to meet each other. You spend some time on the site, you begin to remember nicknames and positions and the person seems to be starting to be familiar to you. But this is still not something to talk live. It would be great if Military Review had a place for an offline discussion club. How is the idea?
  6. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 17 May 2013 06: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: alexandr00070
    well, when you call someone a pagan

    The same one, your protégé, whose activities are prohibited on the territory of the Russian Federation by the Supreme Court for extremism. 2The head of these Old Believers, whom they have spoken about, has deceived more than 300 people and is currently on the international wanted list.
  7. alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 17 May 2013 07: 01 New
    -2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    The same one, your protégé, whose activities are prohibited on the territory of the Russian Federation by the Supreme Court for extremism. 2The head of these Old Believers, whom they have spoken about, has deceived more than 33 people and is currently on the international wanted list.

    I repeat, get treated, and by the way whoever he was, VOLANDDEMORD or something, he was killed by Harry Potter, and they are not looking for him, it's fantastic, and by the way, objectionable comments are ugly to delete
  8. alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 17 May 2013 07: 20 New
    0
    Quote: alexandr00070
    I repeat, get treated, and by the way whoever he was, VOLANDDEMORD or something, he was killed by Harry Potter, and they are not looking for him, it's fantastic, and by the way, objectionable comments are ugly to delete

    minuscule, well, at least they didn’t delete, after our battles you have to copy all the comments,
  9. alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 17 May 2013 07: 18 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    2The head of these Old Believers, whom they have spoken about, has deceived more than 300 people and is currently on the international wanted list.

    Do not sleep, it’s a pity I won’t be able to argue with you in the next day, service, by the way, write at least about whom you wrote, I read information about him with interest,
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        1. Joker
          Joker 16 May 2013 17: 43 New
          +1
          Oh Lord, Éculle Poirot is direct, what is the essence of the claim? In what I said, who set the minus? So what's the big deal? Well, the person does not agree with my opinion, so what? Is the end of the world or what? Or were you scared that you couldn’t crap secretly?
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 17: 51 New
            0
            Quote: Joker
            Or were you scared that you couldn’t crap secretly?

            And you got scared that you got a minus and inflated Mr. Moderator out of an elephant’s fly? Like aaaaaa! Zaminusuyte quietly unchrist!
            In this case, let’s analyze for each participant each minus who and whom is mined.
            I have enough of these for several topics.
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          3. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 10 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            You are so upset that you constantly put many cons including me. And you also put pluses, including me. Well, I set and put that you started to suffer garbage, I didn’t. I said and said, but started a debate, as in the Ukrainian Rada

            Are you following me so closely? It's funny
            There are thousands of users who put each other pros and cons.
            I began? Have I really raised this question here?
            I think the moderator should decide such questions in a personal with users. Do not find?
          4. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 16 May 2013 18: 15 New
            0
            Quote: GreatRussia
            Are you following me so closely? It's funny

            and not only for you, he just remembered me a 4-month dispute, a memory
          5. Iraclius
            Iraclius 16 May 2013 18: 29 New
            0
            And I got a warning for being rude. laughing Let's all remember together what Alexander did to us!laughing
            PS Maybe we’ll finish doing stupid things already?
          6. fortunophile
            fortunophile 16 May 2013 18: 32 New
            0
            Quote: Iraclius
            Let's all remember together what Alexander did to us!

            Well, come on, he helped me several times ... Once, but very much hi
      3. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 16 May 2013 18: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: GreatRussia

        Are you following me so closely?

        For everyone !!! And I recognize many by the manner of writing, even if they change their nicknames.
        Quote: GreatRussia

        There are thousands of users who put each other pros and cons

        Most I know almost everyone is old and you are a frequent visitor to the site.
        Quote: GreatRussia
        I think the moderator should decide such questions in a personal with users. Do not find?

        No, I can’t find it. Sometimes I myself write to some in PM and ask what is wrong in my comments, but only when a person does not miss any of my comments. For one minus I won’t write in PM, if it will be interesting to me, I will ask openly, even though I see it.
      4. bask
        bask 16 May 2013 18: 41 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Most I know almost everyone is old and you are a frequent visitor to sa

        I am also a frequent visitor to the site.
        But the question is different. The patriarch went to China, this will benefit Russia-YES.
        Question No. 2. The patriarch just needs a pastoral trip to Syria, to support the Syrian Christians and the entire Syrian people. He was already in Syria.
        But now is a turning point, this would be a STRONG civic and pastoral act !!!
      5. Joker
        Joker 16 May 2013 18: 44 New
        +4
        I think the patriarch is not very sophisticated in politics. Although it would be worth flying to Syria, all the same there are plenty of Russians there, but he himself can’t, he would have sent anyone.
      6. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 50 New
        +2
        Quote: Joker
        I think the patriarch is not very sophisticated in politics. Although it would be worth flying to Syria, all the same there are plenty of Russians there, but he himself can’t, he would have sent anyone.

        Incidentally, he was there quite recently:

        On November 12-15, 2011, His Holiness Patriarch Kirill visited Syria and Lebanon - The territory of the Antioch Orthodox Church. The Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church met both with the religious leaders of the region (Patriarch of Antioch Ignatius IV, the Supreme Mufti of Syria Ahmed Badr ed-Din Khasun, Maronite Patriarch Besharah Boutros ar-Rai), and with statesmen - the head of Syria Bashar Asan Al-Assad Suleiman. Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, Chairperson of the Department for External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate, who accompanied the Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church, told Izvestia (November 17, 2011) about the purpose of the trip and the threats faced by Christians in the Middle East ....


        - Patriarch Kirill met with Bashar al-Assad, and with the head of the Syrian Government Adel Safar, and with the President of the Lebanese Republic Michel Suleiman. Analysts believe that a visit to Syria during this period will be perceived as support for the Assad regime. What about the political connotations of the trip?

        - When visiting a country, the Primate meets not only with her spiritual, but also with the political leadership. In conversations with political leaders, Patriarch Kirill often gives them advice on how to get out of a crisis situation. But the fact of these meetings can in no way be interpreted as support for one or another political regime or course.


        More:
        http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/1678820.html
      7. Joker
        Joker 16 May 2013 18: 57 New
        +1
        Well, as it were, it was meant to support now, since in Syria there is now a turning point. All the same, spiritual support is now needed more than ever.
      8. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 02 New
        +3
        Quote: Joker
        Well, as it were, it was meant to support now, since in Syria there is now a turning point. All the same, spiritual support is now needed more than ever.

        Are flights there not suspended?


        Rosaviation sent a directive to Russian airlines on ban on the use of Syrian airspace after the shelling of a plane flying from Sharm el-Sheikh to Kazan.

        http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2013/04/30/siriiskii-krizis/710023-rosaviatsiya-zapret
        ila-letat-nad-territoriei-sirii






        More:
        http://www.pravmir.ru/patriarx-kirill-v-sirii-foto/
      9. Joker
        Joker 16 May 2013 19: 12 New
        +1
        Oh, I didn’t know about it honestly, just physically, so much information can’t be found out. But ours, after all, C-300 somehow delivered to Syria (according to rumors) or will deliver, it is possible to send the clergy with them, it would be spectacular, I think hi
      10. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: Joker
        Oh, I didn’t know about it honestly, just physically, so much information can’t be found out. But our S-300s somehow delivered to Syria (according to rumors) or will be delivered, it is possible to send the clergy with them too, it would be spectacular, I think hi

        Well, yes, for example chaplains. )))



      11. bask
        bask 16 May 2013 19: 57 New
        +4
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Well, yes, for example chaplains.

        There are no atheists in the war. Fathers in Chechnya, in the 1st and 2nd war.
        For snipers, Czechs were goal number 1.
        Much has been done to strengthen the spirit of the Russian soldiers.

      12. dmitreach
        dmitreach 16 May 2013 21: 19 New
        +1
        these priests are well done. at least I do not share their views.
      13. bask
        bask 16 May 2013 22: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: dmitreach
        t these priests well done. even though I do not share their views

        Who makes makes me share my views?
        The main thing is that we would not be separated, uncles, Zionists from behind the hill, and, local
        And they really want this. Because their master, Satan, at least believe, at least not. And this is so.

        And the question is. WITH THEM OR AGAINST!
        The rest is secondary.
  • bask
    bask 16 May 2013 19: 33 New
    +6
    Quote: Joker
    spiritual support is now needed as never before

    It is very important.
    But it’s even more important that this delegation includes the spiritual leaders of all the major religions in Russia: Muslims, Buddhists, and Jews.
    BEN LAZAR, was awarded many government orders. He should be in the delegation, in the forefront. Support the Syrian people. And condemn the barbaric bombing of Israel by Syria.
  • Seraph
    Seraph 22 May 2013 04: 32 New
    -1
    And weakly before you blurt out something and blame the Patriarch, search the Internet? I flew to Syria and, moreover, before you, my dear, learned something about Syria: in November 2011, at the very beginning of events. Or does he need to make such trips annually or even quarterly, scoring on business in Russia? Or is it a shame that he does not personally consult with you?
  • Seraph
    Seraph 22 May 2013 04: 26 New
    -1
    Under item 2. Already been: in the search engine enter "the visit of the Patriarch to Syria"
  • Joker
    Joker 16 May 2013 18: 10 New
    +2
    And you got scared that you got a minus and inflated Mr. Moderator out of an elephant’s fly?

    I don’t give a damn about these pros and cons, I don’t like one thing when a person puts a minus without justifying it. Of course, you can put a minus if someone else answered this person and your opinion is similar to the one who answered, but no one answered me, you just put me a minus on the quiet and that’s why I wrote a comment especially for you
    Can minusers refute my words?

    Where he didn’t write anything about your nickname, then a man asked me and I answered him, nothing more, someone else would have asked and he would have answered, also the secret of the century.
    In this case, let’s analyze for each participant each minus who and whom is mined.

    You know, it’s not interesting to me, if you answered right away and didn’t start bustling, this topic would have been swollen from a fly to an elephant. But you started to bustle and you wanted to accuse me of lying. Therefore, let's not breed a flood, if something doesn’t suit you, write me in a personal letter and we'll talk there, but let’s discuss the topic of the article, okay?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Joker
    Joker 16 May 2013 18: 24 New
    0
    Yes, not a problem.
    I doubt the truth that what you just launched has already stopped itself.

    Well, it’s not by itself, but I delete the flood, I’m sitting, so let's discuss the topic of the article. And I don’t want to delete comments all evening lol
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Joker
    Well, it’s not by itself, but I delete the flood, I’m sitting, so let's discuss the topic of the article. And then I do not want to delete comments all evening lol

    Approx.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. fortunophile
        fortunophile 16 May 2013 17: 52 New
        0
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Quote: JokerWe can not influence the rating. I am not so sure.

        I'm afraid to make a mistake, about the Joker himself, he used to go in gray uniforms. He has his own opinion and he does not "bend" hi
        Quote: GreatRussia
        I am unhappy that you are using it for your own purposes. Actually, this is what I observe in this thread and this slippery topic.

        What opened your "-" which personally benefit brought to someone?
        And in general, on your part, there is “baby talk” of a preschooler who was caught when he took the candy ... It seems like he doesn’t care for everyone, but he (the preschooler), having plucked up and erased from his lips, stubbornly repeats: “It's not me !!!” winked
      2. Joker
        Joker 16 May 2013 17: 56 New
        +4
        I'm afraid to make a mistake, about the Joker himself, he used to go in gray uniforms.

        What other grays laughing Xnumx skull i had hi
      3. fortunophile
        fortunophile 16 May 2013 17: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: Joker
        What other gray 3 skulls did I have

        I remember laughing Then there was a different contingent, those who, with their opinion and against the "party line", immediately wassat
      4. Joker
        Joker 16 May 2013 18: 16 New
        +3
        I remember Then there was another contingent, those with their opinions and against the "party line" were immediately tortured

        Yes, there was a thing, now 50 / 50 is about and already in the minuses, those who like to tear and dirty everyone and everything, so the site has developed very much in terms of communication since then, I still remember the time when the most scandalous news had a maximum of 1000 views collected, and now 10 000 are not uncommon, and for a day. Growing site hi
      5. dmitreach
        dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 25 New
        0
        I agree. qualitatively growing.
    2. bask
      bask 16 May 2013 18: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: fortuneophile
      Then there was a different contingent, those with their opinions and against the "party line" immediately

      Now the situation is about the same.
      Fortunophile at least kill I do not remember you.
      And where are the titans of the site? Brother Sarych, Met, Fox, Dims, Horde, and many others.
      Quote: Joker
      Sai is growing

      It pleases, but quality analysts, commentators from new units!
      One joe 3-w in jo ... what it costs. For 1000 putinoids, one pulls.
    3. Joker
      Joker 16 May 2013 19: 16 New
      +2
      Brother Sarych, Met, Fox, Dims, Horde

      Many just read now, and some ban got eternal.
      It pleases, but quality analysts, commentators from new units!

      Here I agree of course. But it seems to me that the reason is that those who do not retire on the Internet, and the young are all at work. Someone can allocate time, and someone not, again, the site is still little known, I think everything will change over time.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 17 May 2013 11: 37 New
    0
    Quote: fortuneophile

    The fact that your "-" was revealed, what personally benefited someone?

    Judging by your reaction to minus, it’s for you. fellow



    Quote: fortuneophile
    And in general, on your part, there is “baby talk” of a preschooler who was caught when he took the candy ... It seems like he doesn’t care for everyone, but he (the preschooler), having plucked up and erased from his lips, stubbornly repeats: “It's not me !!!”

    So the quote with my words will be, where do I refuse?
    No?
    In this case, leave your surreal colorful pictures outlined by your imagination for those very schoolchildren and impressionable ladies.
  • Joker
    Joker 16 May 2013 17: 55 New
    +2
    I am not so sure.

    You can contact the site administration, it will explain everything to you in detail.
    I am unhappy that you are using this for your own purposes.
    Actually what I observe in this thread and this slippery topic.

    Oh, how I used it for personal purposes, the person asked, I answered, then what? Well, I didn’t start sending you threatening emails in your PM so that you wouldn’t give me cons, moreover, I wouldn’t put you a single minus.
    Judging by your "collision" undoubtedly.

    Which collision? It was you who began to reveal insidious plans, and also demanded evidence as if I had not told the truth.
    Here are those times!
    Did someone ask me?

    I did not understand the essence of the question, what were you not asked about?
    Yes please. Here for this:
    ... so how can it not be changed if our ancestors themselves destroyed it.

    Well, what’s wrong here? Did not our ancestors burn idols and kill the Old Believers after the adoption of Christianity? So zealous that almost nothing has come to our time, that the Greeks did not destroy the statues of Zeus.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 02 New
    +1
    Quote: Joker
    You can contact the site administration, it will explain everything to you in detail.

    This is not particularly interesting to me.


    Oh, how I used it for personal purposes, the person asked, I answered, then what? Well, I didn’t start sending you threatening emails in your PM so that you wouldn’t give me cons, moreover, I wouldn’t put you a single minus.

    So I proposed to you in each topic for each minus, each participant.



    Well, I didn’t start sending you threatening emails in your PM so that you wouldn’t give me cons, moreover I wouldn’t put a single minus to you.

    There is a reason to bet. Who's stopping you?
    Typically, such issues are discussed in PM, and not on the air. Instead of discussing the topic.


    I did not understand the essence of the question, what were you not asked about?

    About what I had to admit.





    Well, what’s wrong here? Did not our ancestors burn idols and kill the Old Believers after the adoption of Christianity? So zealous that almost nothing has come to our time, that the Greeks did not destroy the statue of Zeus.

    No, they didn’t kill.
    Executed the leaders of the rebels and those who urged the Russian people to self-immolation (suicide is a terrible sin in Christianity), while remaining on the sidelines.

    Which, by the charm of their commoners and their wives and children, led them to burn themselves: and such thieves, wanted, for their theft, because of their charms people were burned, burn themselves.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 28 New
    0
    Write a complaint .....

    smile distribute among the residents of our ZHEK .... what if? ... laughing
  • does it
    does it 16 May 2013 20: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: Joker
    Only now, unfortunately, there’s no way to find out, because we, with the zeal characteristic of our people, love to destroy everything old at every turn, instead of storing it as a piece of our history. and then everyone cries that they change our story

    It’s not we who are breaking history, those who have power in order to make it easier for the people to manage. I myself am interested in what happened on the territory of Russia a thousand, five thousand years ago. Now they are trying to rewrite history and our descendants will see it maybe in different colors with a different bias.
  • lilit.193
    lilit.193 16 May 2013 15: 19 New
    +4
    Well, yes, Hollywood is wet steep bark. fellow That they have a Mi-24 in the middle of Moscow, then Chernobyl is direct in Russia. belay This is me about the last part of Die Hard. laughing Golomyatya is utterly unreal! wassat What kind of grass do all these scriptwriters smoke? wink
    1. omsbon
      omsbon 16 May 2013 15: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: lilit.193
      What kind of grass do all these scriptwriters smoke?

      It seems to me that they do not smoke, but create the image of Russia they need. And the chicken brains of "average" Americans take it all seriously!
  • barmaglotta
    barmaglotta 16 May 2013 15: 31 New
    -2
    Undoubtedly, the visit of the Patriarch contained a political task, he was not the first time to speak deep. representative of state authority. Open secret.
  • individual
    individual 16 May 2013 15: 43 New
    +3
    Anonymous article posting:
    "Patriarch in China: From Schwarzenegger to Bruce Willis."
    Raises questions, not comments.
  • Uncle
    Uncle 16 May 2013 15: 44 New
    +2
    Orthodox Chinese - just fine! Asians are not like us. The Chinese novice in the monastery is the perfect novice! And the basis of education is obedience. The Chinese are now “pagans,” fertile material for accepting the True Faith.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 16 May 2013 16: 10 New
      0
      So the CCP has given the green light to turning its novices into Orthodox. Shchaz, fled. lol
      Asians are not like us.

      I agree here. They work hard like dads Carla for a meager pay. Do not get drunk like pigs for all sorts of nonsense. Do not whine how hard it is for them to live. This is all true. Only religion is here what side?
      1. Uncle
        Uncle 16 May 2013 16: 44 New
        +1
        I have a friend, an Orthodox Korean. From Australia. A rare soul man, simple as a child, honest, sincere. Among the Russians, by the way, there are such units. That is, not like us, in the sense of cleaner and simpler.
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 18 New
          +2
          Why do you somehow relate his character traits to his religion?
          And I have a friend, a Muslim Chechen, a Chinese Confucian, an Iranian atheist, and a Jew, who are all very wonderful, honest and decent people! So what?
          Will the Chinese accept Orthodoxy and become meek people? Will they give independence to Tibet, Suao, and the disputed territories will be given to India? laughing
          1. Uncle
            Uncle 16 May 2013 18: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: Iraclius
            Will the Chinese accept Orthodoxy and become meek people?

            Will be our brothers in Faith, it’s not so little.
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 16 May 2013 18: 32 New
              0
              If you believe it, then so be it. yes However, I had once heard that Russian and Chinese are brothers forever. what
        2. GG2012
          GG2012 16 May 2013 20: 31 New
          -1
          Quote: Uncle
          I have a friend, an Orthodox Korean

          -I-I-I ...
          Jewish mythology ... which has become the Russian religion ... is preparing to become a Chinese ideology ...
          Right ... the virus wandering around the territory ...

          And note, the Jewish religion always enters a new territory through the current government ...
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: GG2012
            Jewish mythology ... which has become the Russian religion ... is preparing to become a Chinese ideology ...
            Right ... the virus wandering around the territory ...

            The New Testament became the Russian religion, replacing laws for one ancient people.
            Mythology is a narrative of the events that took place in the language and understanding of contemporaries, which, for example, was found very clearly by the followers of Schliemann's discovery of Troy. wink
            Compare culture and religion with the virus and throw demotivators - is that all that modern anti-Christian can do? Shredded-s.
            1. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 27 New
              -1
              Quote: GreatRussia
              The New Testament became the Russian religion, replacing laws for one ancient people.
              Mythology is a narrative of the events that took place in the language and understanding of contemporaries, which, for example, was found very clearly by the followers of Schliemann's discovery of Troy.
              Compare culture and religion with the virus and throw demotivators - is that all that modern anti-Christian can do? Shredded-s.

              The new covenant, the dosage and adapted text for the new flock (with elements of the Old Testament) about the adventures of a person doing miracles, I saw almost the same thing in the last “Battle of psychics”, he called on the Slavic gods, including Veles, including where the miracles were, mother nature helped and defeated all kinds of witches. So if you remember they use the Gospel in our churches, so there are 4 of them that are books that tell about how Jesus went there, here, did, then, until this was crucified. In each book, the author describes this in his own way, and the Slavs have a story about this, but you will accept it as blasphemous and nonetheless:
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 16 May 2013 21: 49 New
                0
                Quote: alexandr00070
                In each book, the author describes this in his own way, and the Slavs have a story about this, but you will accept it as blasphemous and nonetheless:

                Academician Levashov?
                I think that says it all. smile
                1. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 16 May 2013 22: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: GreatRussia
                  Academician Levashov?
                  I think that says it all.

                  then you don’t believe these, but this is Professor of the Moscow Theological Academy Protodeacon Andrei Kuraev, believe the academicians, so your way there
                  1. GreatRussia
                    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 22: 07 New
                    +3
                    Quote: alexandr00070
                    then you don’t believe these, but this is Professor of the Moscow Theological Academy Protodeacon Andrei Kuraev, believe the academicians, so your way there

                    Hamsters on a swamp of this kind will be stuffed.
                    They willingly believe in Photoshop.
                    That way:











                    Enough? Or try to return to adequate?
                    1. alexandr00070
                      alexandr00070 16 May 2013 22: 27 New
                      0
                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      Enough? Or try to return to adequate?

                      if I say not enough, you won’t give it away anymore because on that page where you got them, there’s nothing else, there’s a truth of a strangeness
                      1. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 May 2013 18: 30 New
                        -1
                        Quote: alexandr00070
                        if I say not enough, you won’t give it away anymore because on that page where you got them, there’s nothing else, there’s a truth of a strangeness


          2. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 10 New
            -1
            Quote: GG2012
            Jewish mythology ... which has become the Russian religion ... is preparing to become a Chinese ideology ...
            Right ... the virus wandering around the territory ...

            And note, the Jewish religion always enters a new territory through the current government ...

            Glad to see you in the subject
            1. GG2012
              GG2012 17 May 2013 00: 13 New
              0
              Quote: alexandr00070
              Glad to see you in the subject

              My hello to you! hi
              1. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 17 May 2013 07: 06 New
                +1
                Quote: GG2012
                Oleg, religion is a complicated topic, and before issuing warnings, I often argue with Smirnov and prove this or that point of view. And this 00070 and two others with him were engaged in glorification of perun before it became known later that they were sectarians whose activities were prohibited in the territory of the Russian Federation by a court decision. One was banned, but 00070 and GG2012 remained on the site, but they no longer exhibited sectarian images. By the way their criminal leader is over

                Romanov’s pearl in our direction turns out to be our organization, you are in Ukraine, I’m in the Kuban, the campaign is international, I just thought there were no arguments, but here it turns out everything is complicated
                1. GG2012
                  GG2012 17 May 2013 14: 27 New
                  +1
                  Quote: alexandr00070
                  Oleg, religion is a complicated topic, and before issuing warnings, I often argue with Smirnov and prove this or that point of view. And this 00070 and two others with him were engaged in glorification of perun before it became known later that they were sectarians whose activities were prohibited in the territory of the Russian Federation by a court decision. One was banned, but 00070 and GG2012 remained on the site, but they no longer exhibited sectarian images. By the way their criminal leader is over

                  ITIT-CITY!
                  It turns out I'm a sectarian ??? !!!
                  It turns out I'm a Pagan glorifying Perun ??? !!!
                  It turns out I am in some kind of group ??? !!!
                  It turns out that this kind of group was banned on the territory of the Russian Federation by a court decision ??? !!!
                  It turns out that the group's activity is aimed at exhibiting sectarian pictures ??? !!!

                  I am cruelly apologizing ... but whose is this masterpiece of clinical schizophrenia ??? !!!
                  Name in the studio! You are welcome!
                  And is there at least one evidence from the list ??? !!!
                  fool True PGM! fool True PGM! foolTrue PGM!
                  1. GreatRussia
                    GreatRussia 17 May 2013 16: 38 New
                    -1
                    Quote: GG2012
                    fool It turns out I ....

                    Rather banal AGM, which is confirmed by:

                    Quote: GG2012

                    True PGM! fool True PGM! fool True PGM!
                  2. alexandr00070
                    alexandr00070 18 May 2013 12: 09 New
                    0
                    Quote: GG2012
                    I am cruelly apologizing ... but whose is this masterpiece of clinical schizophrenia ??? !!!
                    Name in the studio! You are welcome!
                    And is there at least one evidence from the list ??? !!!
                    True PGM! True PGM! True PGM!

                    Alexander Romanov in person
                  3. Seraph
                    Seraph 22 May 2013 04: 47 New
                    -1
                    You are Surkovian propaganda! You are Surkovian propaganda! You are Surkovian propaganda! Something painfully familiar ....
          3. Seraph
            Seraph 7 June 2013 01: 28 New
            0
            nothing to add. exactly
        3. Seraph
          Seraph 22 May 2013 04: 42 New
          -1
          I also know a Chinese who converted to Orthodoxy in Russia and has been living in a monastery for the third year. Although, of course, there is no mention of any kind of mass circulation
      2. Alexander-Tomsk
        Alexander-Tomsk 16 May 2013 16: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: Iraclius
        So the CCP has given the green light to turning its novices into Orthodox. Shchaz, fled.


        The article says in black and white that Christianity is booming in China. And this is natural, the Chinese are integrating into the world, travel to different countries, get to know the culture, and accordingly, they also join religion. This process cannot be stopped, and the "Gentiles" will still choose one of the existing world religions. As can be seen from history, after the collapse of the USSR, world religions quickly regained their lost positions.
        The CCP will be beneficial if Orthodoxy becomes the country's main religion. Firstly, they are not officially subordinate to us and support the state. Secondly, Catholics, Protestants, Jews (funny Chinese Jews), Muslims, Buddhists have their own world centers and authorities are often not so friendly to the CCP. You can bring a lot of arguments, but you can understand that Orthodoxy is a good choice and a way for PDA, and it’s important for us not to miss this chance.
        It is true that personally annoying, Russia more and more resembles Byzantium, no matter how we repeat its path.
        1. Uncle
          Uncle 16 May 2013 16: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexander-Tomsk
          It is true that personally annoying, Russia more and more resembles Byzantium, no matter how we repeat its path.

          I think it’s already repeated, in the 05th, and then in the 17th.
        2. Iraclius
          Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander-Tomsk
          The article also says in black and white

          They also write on the fence, so what? I personally visit China several times a year. And something I do not notice there is no boom. The press service of the Russian Orthodox Church blurted out in the media, you believe.
          What is Orthodoxy in China? Are you so kidding? belay
          China has Confucianism, and this is enough for him. There is a competent leadership of the country. Why do they need religion at all?
          Religion is needed to keep the people in check and distract from internal and external problems. You can put cons.
          And about Byzantium you correctly noticed. Unscrupulousness, inconsistency, corruption and lies are all elevated to the absolute.
          1. Joker
            Joker 16 May 2013 18: 39 New
            +2
            It also seems to me that the topic is bloated. And about
            Religion is needed to keep the people in check and distract from internal and external problems.

            It seems to me not quite so. There are educated believers and learned believers, it just seems to me that faith fills the void in a person’s mind, simply because a person always seeks to know what, he is attracted to something mysterious and unknown, it seems to me because of this. Therefore, there are so many radicals among Muslims, because as a rule people there are poorly educated and faith in their heads takes up more space than anything else, if the level of education and material support were normal there, then there would be no terrorists. Unfortunately, faith in large quantities is rather harmful than useful. And so in every faith there is good in Islam, including, and someone who does not believe at all. The main thing seems to me to be respectful to each other, the main thing is that the person is good, and that faith is secondary.
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 16 May 2013 18: 48 New
              -2
              It seems to me that we are talking about the same thing, using slightly different terms. People should relate to each other, using elementary rules of ethics and moral standards, which are also given enough attention in world religions. I repeat once again - I am not against faith as such. But I am convinced that the church should not meddle in the affairs of the state. For some reason, the patriarch is painfully engaged in this zealously. request
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 51 New
                0
                Quote: Iraclius
                But I am convinced that the church should not meddle in the affairs of the state. For some reason, the patriarch is painfully engaged in this zealously

                For example?
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 16 May 2013 18: 59 New
                  0
                  Yes please! The Communist Party advises the Russian Orthodox Church not to intervene in secular affairs. Reference http://actualcomment.ru/main2/628/

                  It seems to me that everything is said here:
                  statement by Vsevolod Chaplin, chairman of the Synodal Department for Church and Society Relations, who said: “The statement that religion should be a private affair, by definition is totalitarian and far from understanding the reality of the modern world, in which religion is increasingly the main basis of social processes ... Church just starting to move to its full place in society. It cannot but be a place that is central. ”
                  1. GreatRussia
                    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 09 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    Yes please! The Communist Party advises the Russian Orthodox Church not to intervene in secular affairs. Reference http://actualcomment.ru/main2/628/


                    Well, but where are the EXAMPLES? Post the slogans again.


                    I, too, can throw such a heap:


                    G.A. Zyuganov:

                    "The army and the Orthodox faith are two pillars that, after the liquidation of the conquests of the Soviet regime, will be cut down first by the haters of the Russian people and Russia, whose main task is the destruction of our spirituality and traditions"


                    ".... today we are witnessing a coordinated campaign of attacks on the Russian Orthodox Church by representatives of aggressive liberal forces. In addition, various types of Russophobic slops are pouring more and more from citizens' TV screens"



                    "A liberal schiz will sooner or later break its head, because constantly beating in the most insecure place - our national identity - amid the privatization robbery that is taking place in the country and the flagrant social injustice can only be people who have completely forgotten about their personal safety.

                    Apparently, once starting this anti-national Sabbath, they have neither the mind nor the conscience to stop, and then, faced with the sharp reactions of society, these people will poke a finger and blame someone for extremism. In fact, this aggressive liberalism - this cave Russophobia, blasphemy regarding our spiritual values ​​is the most sophisticated, most vile extremism "



                    "The present and future of Christianity, which has nourished and nurtured European civilization for many centuries, and in many respects the whole world civilization, turned out to be superfluous for the new masters of the world"



                    "there is a powerful and cynical mental attack on Orthodoxy"




                    "The ritual murders of Orthodox priests, the defamatory desecration of our churches, the arrogant mockery in the media, especially on television, of the highest hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, the cheeky laughter of saints for believers by things from those who consider themselves masters of life - this is what is becoming stronger and stronger more striking in Russian reality "


                    http://kprf.ru/rus_soc/104865.html

                    http://grani.ru/Politics/Russia/Parliament/Duma/m.197108.html

                    1. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 14 New
                      +2
                      I knew that you would not understand anything and would distort, so I specially emphasized Chaplin’s thought. Re-read it again - the Church has headed for dominance in society. On the impact on public processes, the private form of which is politics. What else is needed?
              2. TUMAN
                TUMAN 17 May 2013 15: 48 New
                0
                Quote: Iraclius
                . But I am convinced that the church should not meddle in the affairs of the state. For some reason, the patriarch is painfully engaged in this zealously.

                It’s easier to cut the sheep, with the full support of the state, it turns out a good gesheft! The essence of all religions is the consolidation of the global order of things, within a large group of people, in favor of a specific ruling group of owners!
                All that is written in religious books is bluffing, fiction and outright lies!
                Certain inclusions, such as: “What goes around and comes around”, is non-national and non-religious wisdom. But, interspersing wise ideas in religious texts, makes a religious lie similar to the truth.
                And the use of such an instrument as Faith makes religious false-fanatical conviction that justifies any insanity, such as: GOD wants it, and everything from God.
  • aviamed90
    aviamed90 16 May 2013 15: 50 New
    0
    I would not say that China is our ally. They are on their own mind and for the sake of protecting Russia (as an ally) does not lift a finger. Rather, they are our partners for a period. It’s just that our interests in some areas temporarily coincided.

    "If you explain on the fingers, then the Orthodox Chinese will not plot anything bad against the Orthodox Russian."

    Strongly disagree with this!
    Since when has religious affiliation stopped someone? For the Chinese, it’s not religion that is important (and proclamation there is not in the front row in terms of the number of adherents (about 15 thousand people)), but commercial gain.
    1. Seraph
      Seraph 22 May 2013 04: 55 New
      -1
      Orthodox Bulgaria in the Second World War did not send a single soldier to the Soviet-German front (even Jews and Poles tens of thousands of prisoners of war from the Wehrmacht). Orthodox Serbia, with its resistance to Germany, generally delayed the start of the Barbarossa and it rested against Moscow in the cold. Do you need more examples? And this is only the XNUMXth century, and only from our history
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 16 May 2013 15: 55 New
    +4
    I am amused by the author’s conviction that the Orthodox Chinese will not fight with Russia if the war starts. The Balkan Orthodox peoples are sooooo devoted to Russia.
    I look at Harbin and understand that we could be there. And in Daolyan, and in Lushunkou. Prosrali all polymers.
    The attempts made by both politicians and the Church look more like a game of populism than real steps towards rapprochement with China. Time is irrevocably lost.
    1. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 17: 15 New
      -1
      remember the list of "countries of the Nazi bloc."
  • treskoed
    treskoed 16 May 2013 15: 59 New
    +1
    [quote] [/ qu

    [Quote] The Chinese authorities do not want to warm at their side the fifth column in the form of one or another denomination with a center in a foreign country. [/ Quote]
    The authorities do not want - and never will! No Islam, no other denomination! Maybe our authorities can learn from the Chinese?
    1. Joker
      Joker 16 May 2013 18: 41 New
      0
      Will not work. China has Chinese, and in Russia Russians, Dagestanis, Chechens, etc. Do you understand? If we had Russia, then yes.
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 16 May 2013 16: 05 New
    +1
    If you explain it on your fingers, then an Orthodox Chinese against an Orthodox Russian will not conceive anything bad. After all, Orthodoxy without exaggeration is the national code for Russia. And if this code is integrated into the consciousness of the Chinese, the relations between China and Russia will reach a qualitatively new level. Maybe it sounds a little naive, but I'm sure that it will be so.


    as for example, a new level of relations between Orthodox Russia and Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, etc. (and no one is up to anything, we live in one friendly family, into which the Chinese who now write as pagans will joyfully join it was already somewhere (and rightly, otherwise they are already 2 billion)). Yes, people lived for themselves, and here bam, just imagine Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant - CHINESE
  • aviamed90
    aviamed90 16 May 2013 16: 13 New
    -4
    Our church can be understood. Each denomination is fighting to increase the number of parishioners.
    But I do not think it is worth confusing the policy of Russia (as a state) with the interests of the Russian Orthodox Church. In addition to Orthodoxy (as part of Christianity) there is another Christianity (Catholicism, Protestantism, etc.), Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, their movements and various religious organizations corresponding to them.
    And it’s not very correct for the Russian Orthodox Church (as a religious organization to be equal among equals) in relation to our fellow citizens (but not co-religionists) to pursue such a policy on behalf of all of Russia. We must respect the religious feelings of our fellow citizens.
    If we transfer all politics to the realm of faith, we will get a great civil massacre and pogroms. Do we need it?
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Balalaikin
    Balalaikin 16 May 2013 16: 30 New
    +1
    Православие в Китае http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CF%F0%E0%E2%EE%F1%EB%E0%E2%E8%E5_%E2_%CA%E8%F2%E0%
    E5

    Russian spiritual mission in Beijing
    In the XVII - mid XX century, a Russian spiritual mission operated in Beijing. She played an important role in establishing and maintaining Russian-Chinese relations, was a center for the scientific study of China and the training of the first Russian sinologists. Due to the lack of diplomatic relations between the two states, missionaries have long been unofficial representatives of the Russian government in China.

    Palladium (Kafarov), Iakinf (Bichurin), Alexy (Vinogradov) and other members of the mission made a great contribution to the study of religions, language, culture and history of China.

    At the beginning of the 1900th century, the construction of new Orthodox churches began in China: in 1901, St. Nicholas Cathedral was consecrated in Harbin, built of wood in the style of Russian tent churches; churches were laid at the stations of the CER (among which one of the first was built in XNUMX, the St. Sergius Church in Imianpo); a plot was acquired and the construction of the mission compound with the Annunciation Church in Harbin began.

    I think the patriarch first wants to restore the lost influence ...
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 16 May 2013 16: 39 New
    0
    There is nothing to restore there. In modern China, there is only one influence. The official influence of the CCP.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 16 May 2013 16: 47 New
      -4
      Then why is he looming there?
      You can’t just fool the Chinese so much - they need proof and miracles! And he, in addition to expensive watches and facts, does not have the existence of the Almighty (of course God sent them to him, as well as much more). Although, maybe this is also a miracle?
      1. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 16 May 2013 17: 04 New
        -3
        Quote: aviamed90
        And he, in addition to expensive watches and facts, does not have the existence of the Almighty (of course God sent them to him, as well as much more). Although, maybe this is also a miracle?

        And then, to him that is all that he has exactly God
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 12 New
          -1
          Plus. Now people with a certain type of thinking will come running and start to put down your minuses.
          A Chinese monk is a monk. And look at our priests!
          I am not against religion as such. Like someone - so be it.
          I am opposed to the church climbing into state affairs. And the current patriarch is very inclined towards this.
          1. Seraph
            Seraph 22 May 2013 05: 00 New
            0
            Voicedness Your main argument?
        2. dmitreach
          dmitreach 16 May 2013 17: 22 New
          0
          tell him his cross is Catholic or Orthodox?
          1. Iraclius
            Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 23 New
            +2
            I do not know. But the chain, like, is anchor. And brains are just chicken. laughing
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 17: 27 New
              +1
              But the chain, like, is anchor. And brains are like chicken

              And sins are HEAVY !!! ...
              He has like-minded people!
              someone AS Pushkin remembered ...
              1. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 16 May 2013 17: 30 New
                +2
                Quote: dmitreach
                He has like-minded people

                what is interesting is how they look like Slavs, all the blondes with blue eyes
                1. dmitreach
                  dmitreach 16 May 2013 17: 35 New
                  +1
                  I think where the thread on the beach in Greece is filmed or in Bulgaria ...
          2. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 16 May 2013 17: 26 New
            -1
            Quote: dmitreach
            tell him his cross is Catholic or Orthodox?

            Orthodox here is
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 29 New
              0
              Eeeee ... But what about the Slavic pagans? laughing 0 division and template break.
              1. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 16 May 2013 17: 34 New
                -1
                Quote: Iraclius
                Eeeee ... But what about the Slavic pagans? , division by 0.

                Well, this is the position of the church, you remember Cyril’s speech about the Slavs, this is from the same opera
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 38 New
                  -4
                  What a church, such a position. The continuous Contradictio in adjecto is a substantive contradiction. negative
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 17: 32 New
              -5
              Well, there will be more variations of them, I just do not understand the intricacies. It seems to me that the peasant’s belly has an Orthodox cross.
              "creative rethinking" on the subject of this:
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. dmitreach
                  dmitreach 16 May 2013 17: 44 New
                  -1
                  og looks very smile
                2. The comment was deleted.
          3. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 17: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: dmitreach
            tell him his cross is Catholic or Orthodox?

            Gypsy.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 16 May 2013 17: 53 New
                +2
                Quote: dmitreach

                Something for me is rather "fraternal." but bibiga is white. not according to canon

                Why is Photoshop provocatively offensive here?
                1. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 16 May 2013 17: 55 New
                  0
                  Quote: GreatRussia
                  Why is Photoshop provocatively offensive here?

                  it's not photoshop it's life
                  1. dmitreach
                    dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 03 New
                    0
                    running by the road ...
                    1. Seraph
                      Seraph 22 May 2013 05: 22 New
                      -1
                      The bishop who ordained me, if I had seen this, would have acted as follows:
                      1. He declared to the police about quackery and swindle, if it is a mummer;
                      2. He would help with money if he is a priest from a poor parish and he has nothing to feed his family with (this is in question, because he already knew and helped such people);
                      3.Has forbidden in the priesthood, if it is a priest, a greedy lover.
                      And we have an absolute majority of such bishops. And greedy, loose faces that have lost the human appearance of atheists and pagans can beat this site until the end of time.
                      Believers: Atheists 10: 0
                  2. GreatRussia
                    GreatRussia 17 May 2013 18: 32 New
                    -3
                    Quote: alexandr00070
                    it's not photoshop it's life

                    And what bothers you in this?
                    1. alexandr00070
                      alexandr00070 18 May 2013 12: 13 New
                      -1
                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      And what bothers you in this?

                      a bunch of healthy men, waving panicles, singing songs, working purely for themselves, without bringing any benefit to the state, they also sucked on budget money, and they boo about our taxes
                  3. Seraph
                    Seraph 22 May 2013 05: 15 New
                    -1
                    Envy someone else's earnings? Or are you upset that the priest blessed the car, and didn’t come to your pagan brother for a shamanic ritual? Well, so be discouraged. Russian people do not know your paganism and do not want to know. How much would you not let your poisonous drool
                2. dmitreach
                  dmitreach 16 May 2013 17: 58 New
                  +2
                  GreatRussia Why is Photoshop provocatively offensive here?

                  come on. are manahs not human and human is alien to them? But what about those who were in the field of battle, with weapons in their hands?
                  VICTORY OF OVERLIGHT
                  1. dmitreach
                    dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 02 New
                    -1
                    or as
                    BLESSING OF DMITRY DONSKY
                    Find 10 differences.

                    these "two of the white casket" are the same protectors. in theory.
                    1. bask
                      bask 16 May 2013 20: 15 New
                      +5
                      Quote: dmitreach
                      BLESSING OF DMITRY DONSKY

                      This is a picture, not an Icon.
                      RUSSIAN SOLDIER-NEW SCIENTIST, THE HOLY LAND OF RUSSIAN. Eugene Rodionov. In Chechnya, he was brutally murdered, but he did not remove the Cross. And he did not become a traitor not only to the Orthodox Faith but also to his homeland.
                      This is not an example. Without the Orthodox Faith, they will crush us, the beast ,,, Without options.
                      1. Iraclius
                        Iraclius 16 May 2013 20: 22 New
                        +1
                        You are all right. There must be a unifying idea. My grandfather, speaking of the Great Patriotic War, did not say a word about religion. And somehow the Wehrmacht and the whole of Europe broke the ridge. It also strains the fact that the Church canonizes with equal ease both martyrs and tyrants, like the bloody Nikolas.
                      2. bask
                        bask 16 May 2013 21: 17 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Iraclius
                        the war did not say a word about religion.

                        And mine always prayed. Always said, it won’t hurt.
                        You can believe, you can’t believe. This is a personal matter for everyone.
                        But the history of Holy Russia must know.
                        Yes, if, what ,,, unaccounted for, climbs, the machine in the hands and forward. I scalpel and forward.
                        Here is a unifying idea !!!!
                        Saint Andrew of Caesarea: “Do not be afraid, he says, of the afflictions caused by the worshipers through wounds and oppression, since they will be short-lived, only for ten days. Therefore, even death itself must be neglected, for it brings the unfading crown of life in the shortest time. "
                        ONLY IN THE UNITY IS OUR POWER !!!
                3. Uncle
                  Uncle 16 May 2013 18: 37 New
                  +4
                  Quote: dmitreach
                  come on. are manahs not human and human is alien to them? But what about those who were in the field of battle, with weapons in their hands?

                  Do you think that monks cannot protect their native land? In the picture Peresvet even in the clothes of a schemarist, of the highest degree of monasticism, accepted before death, that’s right, any Christian dreams of dying like that.
                  1. dmitreach
                    dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 50 New
                    0
                    Do you think that monks cannot protect their native land?

                    And do you think that Soyuzmultfilm has a dilapidated building to take away this protection of the “immoderate wealth” by the schema monks? Chezh did not invest in the restoration of God-pleasing business? It would be possible to draw cartoons on the theme of OVERLIGHT ...

                    Come Christ now within the borders of Muscovy, he would be crucified ... The Moscow Patriarchate. Somewhere I already read it ...?
                    Ah sorry ... it was a couple of thousand years ago ...
                    1. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 53 New
                      -1
                      Quote: dmitreach
                      And do you think that Soyuzmultfilm has a dilapidated building to take away this protection of the “immodestly acquired”? Chezh did not invest bcm in the restoration of God-pleasing business?

                      Do you think that such organizations should be located in Orthodox churches?





                      You understand that this kind of epithet is like “taking away” and so on. you will not prove your innocence, but quite the opposite?

                      It reads:

                      Soyuzmultfilm will soon have to give its premises to the Russian Orthodox Church, director general of the film studio Nikolai Makovsky said on Friday. "The studio occupies the premises and the territory of the church of Nikolai Ugodnik, which was returned to the Russian Orthodox Church," N. Makovsky explained to Interfax. "The Ministry of Economic Development offered the studio two buildings." These buildings suit us, " - he said

                      http://mission-center.com/ru/pravoslavnie-novosti/1-pravoslavnie-novosti/7519-ne

                      ws-moscow-vozv-cherkvi-zdaniy
                    2. dmitreach
                      dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 56 New
                      0
                      Religion does not order eggs to paint and Easter cakes? and cartoons for children to draw - blesses?
                      PS
                      read the opposite
                    3. dmitreach
                      dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 09 New
                      -2
                      I don’t know. These conversations have been talking since the early 00s. Only the tone sometimes changes. A kind of reminiscent of the theme of the 90s ... Oil and tobacco were also traded while the people ate vodka from despair. Is there money now? Or fashion? Or oil does not roll? Or is conscience SO ITIEE FINALLY awake? Have you seen pickets with flag banners? (Regarding the weaning of the building) I saw. On a cartoon, rented space, I have a relationship. It was a shame even for those for whom the Russian Orthodox Church is a native religion.
                      Read in the Bible:
                      not healthy people need a doctor, but sick people.
                      Here, too, with the "cartoon". This PR action will not affect the budget of the Russian Orthodox Church. But sins must be blotted out. recently drove past an old job. Things are still there ... Somewhere among the landscapes of the shooter STALKER And this is in the center of Moscow!
                    4. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 16 New
                      -1
                      Quote: dmitreach
                      Oil and tobacco were also traded while the people ate vodka from despair.

                      You are bigger than the Bychkovs from MK and the Mitrokhins from the liberal-human rights party who refer to this very Bychkov (thrice convicted by the court in slander). And it’s not so in the consciousness that will emerge.


                      "Bychkov is already for the third time in court recognized as a liar," the source said, assuming that "this journalist has not yet" moved "to the Presnensky court only because of the squeamishness of the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, who consider it less than their dignity to join the court litigation. "

                      “Mr. Bychkov’s articles are more like a stream of not very healthy consciousness than conscious defamation. Professional defamators still do not compose their texts solely from delusions, as this journalist is unable to even approximately reproduce the name of the criticized book and the position of its author ", - said R. Silantyev.

                      He also emphasized that "tobacco-vodka scandals, intrigues in the Holy Synod and the diseases of its permanent members exist only in the inflamed imagination of Mr. Bychkov".

                      http://www.interfax-religion.ru/atheism/print.php?act=news&id=27979
                    5. dmitreach
                      dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 29 New
                      0
                      You are bigger than the Bychkovs from MK and the Mitrokhins from the liberal-human rights party who refer to this very Bychkov (thrice convicted by the court in slander). And it’s not so in the consciousness that will emerge.

                      and who is it? what are you talking about?

                      Oil, hotel business, trade and insurance are the main sources of income for the Russian Orthodox Church.

                      They would still be “money changers,” in order to fully comply with the biblical image ... Although there are no places to put samples like that.


                      ROC CJSC is a solid, successful, and well-established corporation operating in the Russian services market. Due to the consistently high quality of the services of the Russian Orthodox Church, centuries-old experience and its own high quality standards, the company continues to expand steadily from year to year ([2], [3], [4]). Offices, branches and customer service points are currently operating in all regions of the country, and representative offices are located on all continents of the globe, not excluding Antarctica.
                    6. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 32 New
                      -1
                      Quote: dmitreach
                      and who is it? what are you talking about?

                      Cleaning Counterfeit Manager
                      Head section Religion "MK"
                      The one who distributed this misinformation in the Yeltsin 90s.
                      Snitch and scammer (see court materials)
                    7. dmitreach
                      dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 37 New
                      +2
                      Valuable information.
                  2. alexandr00070
                    alexandr00070 16 May 2013 19: 41 New
                    +2
                    Quote: dmitreach
                    They would still be “money changers,” in order to fully comply with the biblical image ... Although there are no places to put samples like that.

                    Well, if you turn to the founders of Christianity - the “God-chosen people” —that is enough there. By the way, the rulers dug a hole for themselves by forcing the Jews to be baptized by force, and then the new name and surname turned out to be Orthodox, and xxxxx
                  3. dmitreach
                    dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 57 New
                    +1
                    Well, if you turn to the founders of Christianity - the "God chosen people" - there are enough

                    I'm talking about the plot: Jesus expels money changers and traders in the Temple.
                  4. alexandr00070
                    alexandr00070 16 May 2013 20: 41 New
                    0
                    Quote: dmitreach
                    I'm talking about the plot: Jesus expels money changers and traders in the Temple

                    I understood, but the question was whether I drove out, and whether businessmen did not return to the temples
                  5. dmitreach
                    dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 52 New
                    0
                    Specifically, that Temple was destroyed to the foundation, in 70 A.D. Symbolically. There is only the so-called "Wailing Wall". That's why they roar.
            2. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 07 New
              +1
              Quote: dmitreach
              Oil, hotel business, trade and insurance are the main sources of income for the Russian Orthodox Church.

              And what? Lay people forbidden to earn for their denomination?



              They would still be “money changers,” in order to fully comply with the biblical image ... Although there are no places to put samples like that.

              You really want it, right?
              You can’t catch it, you live all your fantasies.

              By the way, who wrote this crazy libel?
            3. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 37 New
              0
              By the way, who wrote this crazy libel?

              Beloved Apostle of Christ. John.

              13 The Passover of Judah was drawing near, and Jesus came to Jerusalem

              14 And he found that in the temple they sold oxen, sheep, and doves, and money changers sat.

              15 And having made a scourge of ropes, he drove out of the temple all, also sheep and oxen; and he scattered money with the exchangers, and overturned their tables.

              16 And he said to the sellers of the pigeons: Take this from here, and do not make My Father's house a house of commerce.
              John chapter 2 verses 13-25
            4. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 41 New
              0
              Quote: dmitreach
              Beloved Apostle of Christ. John.

              Yah?

              You obviously messed up something, citing this libel:

              CJSC "ROC" .......,
            5. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 58 New
              +1
              CJSC "ROC" .......,

              New time is a new trend.
              but it was like this:
              To the priest - to the marten, to the deacon - to the fox, to the summer monkey-grief - to the gray hare, and to the cracker-cracker - hare ears;
              You can’t fill the Popov’s belly;
              For money and lazy pop, a moleben will be sung;

              Roly people are having fun.
              Another AS Pushkin lit up

              Once upon a time there was a pop
              Fiber forehead.
              I went pop in the market
              See some product.
              Probably all of them are supporters of Mossad and want to split ... am
              Balda condemned with reproach:
              "You would not chase, pop, for cheapness."
            6. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 16 May 2013 21: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: dmitreach
              Probably all of them are supporters of MossAda and want to split ... am


              I spoke just now about "black sheep"
              And where else, do not tell?
              Pushkin? Perfectly.
              And so it was with him:


              The fathers of the hermits and wives are innocent,
              To fly away in the field
              To strengthen it in the midst of valley storms and battles,
              They composed many divine prayers.

              But not one of them touches me,
              Like the one the priest repeats
              In the days of sad Lent.
              More and more often she comes to me

              And strengthens the fallen by an unknown force:
              Lord of my days! The spirit of idleness is dull
              Ancestor, snakes hidden this,
              And do not give idle words to my soul.

              But let me see my transgressions, oh God
              My brother will not accept judgment from me,
              And the spirit of humility, patience, love
              And chastity revive in my heart.

              ..................
              Father of people, Heavenly Father!
              Yes, your eternal name
              Hallowed by our hearts!
              Thy kingdom come
              Thy will be with us
              Like in heaven, so on earth!
              They sent us their daily bread
              With your generous hand
              And how we forgive people
              So us worthless before Thee
              Forgive, Father, Your children;
              Do not cast us into temptation
              And from crafty seduction
              Spare us ...
            7. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 21: 28 New
              +1
              Pushkin is our mustache.
              I always liked how he “Our Father”, poetically reinterpreted.
            8. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 34 New
              -2
              Quote: GreatRussia
              Father of people, Heavenly Father!

              Genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham.

              2Abraham gave birth to Isaac; Isaac begat Jacob; Jacob begat Judah and his brothers; 3 Judah begat Pharez and Zara from Tamar; Pharez gave birth to Esrom; Yeshrom begat Aram; 4Aram begat Aminadawa; Aminadab begat Naasson; Naasson begat Salmon; 5 Salmon begat Boaz from Rahava; Boaz gave birth to Ovid from Ruth; Ovid gave birth to Jesse; 6 Jesse begat David the king; David the king begat Solomon from the former beyond Uriah; 7Solomon begat Rehoboam; Rehoboam begat Abijah; Abijah begat Asu; 8Asa begat Jehoshaphat; Jehoshaphat gave birth to Joram; Joram gave birth to Uzziah; 9Oziya begat Joatham; Joatham begat Ahaz; Ahaz gave birth to Hezekiah; 10 Hezekiah begat Manasseh; Manasseh begat Amon; Amon begat Josiah; 11 Josiah begat Joachim; Jehoiakim begat Jehonia and his brothers before moving to Babylon.

              12And when he was moved to Babylon, Jehoniah begat Salaphiel; Salafiel begat Zerubbabel; 13Zerubbabel begat Abiud; Abiud begat Eliakim; Eliakim begat Azor; 14Azor begat Zadok; Zadok gave birth to Achim; Achim begat Eliud; 15 Eliud begat Eleazar; Eleazar gave birth to Matthan; Matthan begat Jacob; 16 Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, from whom Jesus was born, called Christ.

              17So all the clans from Abraham to David are fourteen clans; and from David to the relocation to Babylon, fourteen clans; and from resettlement to Babylon to Christ, fourteen kinds.

              18The birth of Jesus Christ was this: after the betrothal of His Mother Mary and Joseph, before they were combined, it turned out that She had in the womb of the Holy Spirit.
              http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Bible/B_mf1.htm
            9. Seraph
              Seraph 22 May 2013 05: 38 New
              -1
              Yes, they do not read Pushkin! What for? You can google it: learn about faith and everything about Pushkin, and about tires. All-all-all. So they live ...
              And now from a spiritual height
              You stretch my hand
              And the power of meek and loving
              Humble violent dreams.
              This is to Metropolitan Filaret (Drozdov). But since this does not fit into their scanty consciousness, it was ignored. Sincerely sorry for the wretchedness of such a consciousness
        3. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 31 New
          0
          Quote: GreatRussia
          Quote: dmitreach
          Beloved Apostle of Christ. John.
          Yah?

          Thus Jesus laid the foundation for miracles in Cana of Galilee and revealed His glory; and his disciples believed on him.

          12 After this he came to Capernaum, himself and his mother, and his brothers, and his disciples; and stayed there a few days.

          13 The Passover of Judea was approaching, and Jesus came to Jerusalem 14 and found that oxen, sheep and doves were being sold in the temple, and money changers were sitting.

          15 And having made a scourge of ropes, he drove out of the temple all, also sheep and oxen; and he scattered money with the exchangers, and overturned their tables.

          16 And he said to the sellers of the pigeons: Take this from here, and do not make My Father's house a house of commerce.

          17At this time his disciples remembered what was written: Jealousy in thy house eats me.

          18The Jews said to this: What sign do you prove to us that you have the authority to do so?

          19 Jesus answered them: Destroy this temple, and I will build it in three days.

          http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Bible/B_in2.htm
          learn materiel
          http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Bible/Index.htm
  • Seraph
    Seraph 22 May 2013 05: 29 New
    -1
    Incurable. Broken record. Direct guidance of some kind: Gubelman reincarnated. Holy Holy Holy
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 20 New
    0
    dmitreach, You say very correct, albeit unpleasant for adherents, things. It’s a pity that I can’t put a ton of pluses, so I’ll just take off my hat. hi
    The hypocrisy of the Church bothers me too.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 31 New
    +1
    Quote: Iraclius
    Dmitreach, you say very correct, albeit unpleasant things for adherents. It’s a pity that I can’t put a ton of pluses, so I’ll just take off my hat. hi
    The hypocrisy of the Church bothers me too.

    He doesn’t say anything. He throws slogans.
    And you him corny cuckoo-rooster-sing along.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 36 New
    -1
    If i express its opinion and it is consonant with the opinion of another commentator, then what is the problem? And yes - pick up expressions. I have already made up my opinion about you, so do not completely lower it below the baseboard.
    I do not see any slogans in his words. A bare statement of unpleasant facts.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 59 New
    0
    Quote: Iraclius
    I have already made up my opinion about you, so do not completely lower it below the baseboard.

    Honestly to me frankly to that very light bulb on your opinion about his person in this case.


    I do not see any slogans in his words. A bare statement of unpleasant facts.

    What are these facts?
    You didn’t bring anything concrete.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 16 May 2013 21: 03 New
    -1
    Read another fact. http://scepsis.net/library/id_2119.html

    If your children will be taught oral counting, spelling, and the law of God at school, will you rejoice?
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 21: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: Iraclius
    Read another fact. http://scepsis.net/library/id_2119.html

    If your children will be taught oral counting, spelling, and the law of God at school, will you rejoice?

    Sorry, what you referred to, in particular, on network anonyms with a complete gag, and on propaganda anti-religious sites I do not perceive as a fact. smile
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 16 May 2013 21: 11 New
    -1
    All clear. Thinking is sinful. Thank you for the semblance of dialogue and all the best to you.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 21: 14 New
    +1
    Quote: Iraclius
    All clear. Thinking is sinful. Thank you for the semblance of dialogue and all the best to you.

    It's weird. I always believed that God endowed with reason precisely in order to think, think ....
    Why is this sinful for you, it remains only to guess.
    All the best!
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 43 New
    0
    Unlike you, I’m talking about what I came across from personal experience. in particular, about the "cartoon".
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 37 New
    0
    Iraclius, psb. We are not alone. hi
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 26 New
    -1
    The rector of the church, priest Nikolai Seleznev, said that negotiations with the Sozmultfilm studio have been ongoing for 15 years - since 1993, when the church community was formed. For many years, the community has been seeking the return of the church, however, despite the appeal of His Holiness Patriarch Alexy in 1999 to V. Putin, who was then the Prime Minister of Russia, and despite numerous proposals from the Ministry of Property of other premises for the needs of Soyuzmultfilm , the management of the film studio does not want to leave the building belonging to the Church. Church of St. Nicholas - one of the few churches in Moscow, still not transferred to their rightful owners.

    The article is old, but nothing has changed. Just as they chopped for property in the Zlatoglava center, they do so. Nothing personal. Just a business.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: dmitreach

    The article is old, but nothing has changed. Just as they chopped for property in the Zlatoglava center, they do so. Nothing personal. Just a business.



    Soyuzmultfilm will soon have to give its premises to the Russian Orthodox Church, director general of the film studio Nikolai Makovsky said on Friday. "Studio takes premises and territory of the church of St. Nicholaswho returned to the Russian Orthodox Church, "N. Makovsky explained to Interfax. "The Ministry of Economic Development proposed two buildings to the studio." These buildings are suitable for us, "he said.
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 42 New
    0
    Correctly. Bother to check. Exchange. Weak - moved.
    "These buildings suit us,"

    A Russian Orthodox Church suitable building in the historical center of "Gold-domed", because nefig. There is nothing to do from a school-studio hired from souvenirs. Not interested.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 48 New
    0
    Quote: dmitreach

    A Russian Orthodox Church suitable building in the historical center of "Gold-domed", because nefig. There is nothing to do from a school-studio hired from souvenirs. Not interested.

    For example this?

    Orthodox School of Arts "Trinity"

    http://www.rusicon.ru/rus/sci/study/



  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 21: 33 New
    0
    I speak fashion has appeared. for the 90s can a similar photo report?
    You should at least check your links before being disgraced
    I went. I looked. It’s necessary to grind.

    After the successful completion of Level I, graduates are issued a Certificate of passing the initial courses of icon painting
    9 300 rubles
    INTENSIVE ICON RECORD COURSES + GIFT "ICON SCRIPT" TEXT
    2,5 months / 30 lessons / 80 ac. h
    RESULT: ICON + Employment
    Accelerated groups and mini-groups 11 400 rubles


    After the successful completion of the preparatory course, you can continue training in the courses of icon painting of Level I "My first icons"

    4 100 rubles
    PREPARATORY ICON RECORD COURSE + GIFT "ICON SCRIPT SET"
    (materials necessary for classes, and all teaching aids)
    8 lessons / 24 ac. h + annual subscription to the theoretical course of lectures
    Accelerated groups and mini-groups 4 600 rubles
    Icon painting preparatory courses "BASIS OF ICON DESCRIPTION"


    As Jesus said there: for free have received - for free give.
    Just do not talk about the cost of brushes and paints. There is either a RELIGIOUS “IN NAME / IN GLORY”, or “commercial activity for the purpose of generating profit.” There is no middle ground.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 21: 54 New
    0
    Quote: dmitreach

    I speak fashion has appeared. for the 90s can a similar photo report?
    You should at least check your links before being disgraced
    I went. I looked. It’s necessary to grind.

    And in what, call me, did you see the shame?
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 21: 53 New
    -1
    yes ... such things ... in the 90s the people of the dough did not have to spend money on "hobbies".
    http://www.rusicon.ru/rus/sci/
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 21: 54 New
    -1
    http://www.expresspaint.ru/zhivopis.html
    Training in painting by the example of copying paintings of Great artists. DISCOUNTS up to 20% *
    FIND 10 DIFFERENCES.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 21: 59 New
    0
    Quote: dmitreach
    http://www.expresspaint.ru/zhivopis.html
    Training in painting by the example of copying paintings of Great artists. DISCOUNTS up to 20% *
    FIND 10 DIFFERENCES.

    We find:


    Icon painting training children held on a charitable basis
    on Sundays

    http://www.rusicon.ru/rus/sci/


    Can you read the font clearly?
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 22: 41 New
    0
    Icon painting training for children is carried out on a charitable basis
    on Sundays

    Well, we found something to be proud of .... Well, at least there are no extortions from children, and thanks for that.
    Although parents are usually robbed. Have you stopped selling baptismal kits for children already?
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 17 May 2013 10: 20 New
    -2
    Quote: dmitreach
    Well, we found something to be proud of .... Well, at least there are no extortions from children, and thanks for that.
    Although parents are usually robbed. Have you stopped selling baptismal kits for children already?

    And did not start for those who can not donate. Distribute for free.
  • Seraph
    Seraph 22 May 2013 05: 46 New
    -1
    Yeah, 100 rubles per hour classes robbery. The teacher should work for thanks. Go to a Moscow school and tell the art teacher that he should receive 20 thousand rubles a month for 8 hours a week. Make the toilet tremble while an angry teacher waits under the doors
  • Uncle
    Uncle 16 May 2013 18: 55 New
    +4
    Quote: dmitreach
    Something for me is rather "fraternal." but bibiga is white. not according to canon.

    Good photo, more of these. I’m going to the monastery, which used to be a prison, and the locals - to the guard, so they hate the monasteries. And this is understandable, they lost their jobs.
    1. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 40 New
      -1
      so they hate monastic

      I am not one of them. I just "got poisoned by the Bible, in a synodal translation." Prohibit or republish in the "dead language", so that people would not read or compare. Although somewhere it was already ...
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 43 New
        0
        Quote: dmitreach
        I just "got poisoned by the Bible, in a synodal translation."

        Because the medicine should be taken along with the explanation, and not drink everything at once and from everything at once.
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 50 New
          -1
          GreatRussia, I still can’t get it - what do you want to achieve? Why are you likened to arrogant sectarians who knock on doors and offer their books? Here is the commentator Uncle - a believer, as I understand it, a man. So he is modestly silent when they tell the truth about unpleasant things in the Russian Orthodox Church. Why are these your angry sermons? Why are you trying to whitewash indelible?
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Iraclius
            GreatRussia, I still can’t get it - what do you want to achieve?

            I AM? From you? Get involved!

            Why are you likened to arrogant sectarians who knock on doors and offer their books? There is a commentator Uncle - a believer, as I understand it, a man.
            So he is modestly silent when they tell the truth about unpleasant things in the Russian Orthodox Church.

            Those. do you think everyone should be silent when you distort facts for the sake of your worldview ambitions?
            And if, in contrast to your interpretation of the Bible, I begin to explain the church, do you begin to call it “offering little books”?
            And who after this is likened to?

            Why are these your angry sermons? Why are you trying to whitewash indelible?


            What sermons, my dear? Instead of various shades, including white, you are trying to show everything in black.
            I just don’t deny the presence of "black sheep", which is why I referred to Kuraev’s comment on this.
            So, do not engage in postscripts of opponents.
          2. Iraclius
            Iraclius 16 May 2013 20: 14 New
            0
            I'm not asking myself. In general, about your comments. The fact that the Russian Orthodox Church of the modern type is an organization that does not do what it should. She just makes money. Will you argue with that too?
            What facts do I distort? I brought you a real statement of a very real Chaplin. You said that it was a slogan and you stepped aside. I don’t interpret the Bible at all. I just read and ponder what is written.
            I affirm that the Church has taken a course to increase its influence in the state and on the state, again referring to the words of Chaplin, who is an official person and not the last in the church hierarchy. And I argue that this is wrong. You answered that this is a kind of spiritual influence, without reinforcing your words. You are likened to medieval scholastics and you can’t even competently and politely conduct a dialogue (or a dispute - as you like) on an equal footing. However, after the incident with a minus and your attempt to lie, everything falls into place.
          3. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 17 New
            0
            Quote: Iraclius
            The fact that the Russian Orthodox Church of the modern type is an organization that does not do what it should. She just makes money. Will you argue with that too?

            No, of course I won’t.
            But how can religious denominations exist without money?
            Maybe you explain?
          4. Iraclius
            Iraclius 16 May 2013 20: 26 New
            0
            Ask the Muslims. The Supreme Mufti does not roll out in China, and indeed it is practically invisible, but for some reason they just let me into a mosque in my city. And there are no shameful and foul price lists of prices there. Strange, huh? Yes, and children from Jewish families in my city go to free summer camps, which the synagogue collects funds for. That is so, suggestive examples. What is happening in the modern Russian Orthodox Church is a shame. This is a criminal and brazen violation of all the canons of Orthodoxy. And I'm just ashamed as a citizen of Russia. And it is not clear how people do not notice and - moreover! - protect this organization when you try to open your eyes to it.
          5. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 17 May 2013 10: 28 New
            0
            Quote: Iraclius
            Ask the Muslims. The supreme mufti does not roll over China ...

            And in theory I should, I doubt that in China there is no Muslim "paste"


            and indeed it’s practically not visible,

            And what is the percentage of Muslims in Russia of the total population so that it is noticeable?


            Quote: Iraclius
            but for some reason they’re just letting me into a mosque in my city.

            Have you been denied access to an Orthodox church somewhere, demanding to purchase something? For example, candles that can be taken in the temple for free if there is no money to donate? ))))


            And there are no shameful and foul price lists of prices there. Strange, huh?

            What is foulness? The fact that you will be given a candle for free, if there is no opportunity to donate, acquiring OPTIONAL, so to speak, SYMBOLIC.


            Church candle - a symbol of the prayer of a believer and a sacrifice to the temple. With its burning before the icon, it shows the warmth of love for the Lord, the Mother of God or the saint, expresses a person’s desire for spiritual transformation, just like wax is turned into fire.
            Since the candle is bought, it is a voluntary sacrifice of man to God and His temple for himself and for his neighbors.

            http://azbyka.ru/dictionary/17/svecha_tserkovnaya.shtml


            Yes, and children from Jewish families in my city go to free summer camps, which the synagogue collects funds for.

            And what? You should list how many free canteens for the disadvantaged in one Moscow Region, how many church shelters in Russia, etc. etc.? )))



            That is so, suggestive examples.

            These are not examples.




            What is happening in the modern Russian Orthodox Church is a shame. This is a criminal and brazen violation of all the canons of Orthodoxy.

            This is another slogan with acc. a set of anti-church epithets for influencing the most impressionable and no more. Passed by.


            And I'm just ashamed as a citizen of Russia. And it is not clear how people do not notice and - moreover! - protect this organization when you try to open your eyes to it.

            You are trying to splurge and pretend to be a Pharisee, working for the public. But, call, do not hold out.
      2. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: Iraclius
        I affirm that the Church has taken a course to increase its influence in the state and on the state, again referring to the words of Chaplin, who is an official person and not the last in the church hierarchy. And I argue that this is wrong. You answered that this is a kind of spiritual influence, without reinforcing your words. You are likened to medieval scholastics and you can’t even competently and politely conduct dialogue (or a dispute - as you like) on an equal footing.

        Well, well, and in what exactly do you see its influence on the state? )))


        You become like, I become like ....
        Let's get away from the grading categories. Otherwise, in the end, we will go over to the person completely.


        However, after the incident with a minus and your attempt to lie, everything falls into place.

        Where did I lie? Lock out.
        I denied somewhere that you or someone else was minusanul?
        No need to rage and throw this kind of "argument".
        It's not gonna go.
        And the good will not lead in the end.
      3. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 37 New
        -1
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Well, well, and in what exactly do you see its influence on the state? )))

        Well, for example
        Moscow. January 2. INTERFAX - Professor Protodeacon Andrei Kuraev considers it necessary to combine New Year and Christmas in one holiday.

        “I hope that over time our Church will have the courage to make a radical decision, namely, to combine Christmas and New Year, not to transfer it to a new style, like the Catholics, namely, to postpone the date of the celebration of Christmas to January 1,” A said .Kuraev on Wednesday, January 2 on the radio station "Echo of Moscow".

        Any other date for the celebration of Christmas, in his opinion, "raises a question for which we have no answers." “If the New Year is from the Nativity of Christ, then why is it considered not from the Nativity of Christ? If a large calendar, i.e. AD, the years are counted from the Nativity of Christ, why is the small calendar, the days within the year counted from some other point? This is not logical, ”the Orthodox missionary explained.

        “Therefore, if once we have to change the calendar - it probably will be sometime, I don’t know in what centuries - it’s better not to postpone it until December 25, until the New Year ... What difference does it make - a week before the new year, a week after the new year, somehow it’s a little strange, ”said Kuraev.
        what about public holidays and weekends
      4. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 17 May 2013 10: 37 New
        0
        Quote: alexandr00070
        Well, for example
        Moscow. January 2. INTERFAX - Professor Protodeacon Andrei Kuraev considers it necessary to combine New Year and Christmas in one holiday.

        Is this the official opinion of the Church?
        Well, you burn with such examples.
      5. dmitreach
        dmitreach 17 May 2013 10: 38 New
        0
        no, but you’re spinning like a frying pan.
      6. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 17 May 2013 10: 47 New
        0
        Quote: dmitreach
        no, but you’re spinning like a frying pan.

        It seems to you, probably the head from an overabundance of information is spinning.
        Will we again bump around or still try to return to the discussion *
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 09 New
    0
    Exactly. Explanations to take from the "clergy" of the ROC? So they know better “prayer books” and “rites” than Scripture. But this is so ... from personal experience. Why not the Catholics, not the Protestants, not the Lutherans?
    But in fact: you should not think that a person who spoke with the villagers in an accessible and understandable language for them (examples about sheep / grapes / olives / figs, a tractor would be familiar, I would mention a tractor), as a result, it needs translators. Fundamentally - everything is simpler. Do not be too lazy to shift to the "ingenuity" of the biblical syllable.
    PS
    "Poisoned with spiritual food," from the point of view of the Russian Orthodox Church. This is sarcasm like that.
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 13 New
      0
      Quote: dmitreach
      Exactly. Explanations to take from the "clergy" of the ROC? So they know better “prayer books” and “rites” than Scripture.

      There are such concepts as religious philosophy, the experience of the Church, theology, the Fathers of the Church, the profession of the MDA, and so on. eventually. smile
    2. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 44 New
      0
      OGA. The example of the Jews is a textbook example. Read the Old Testament, with their "experience."
      (one and a half thousand years of experience! before the crucifixion of Christ)
      They had:
      Scribes
      The Pharisees
      Sadukey
      Essenes
      and other "tractors", but they crucified Christ ... And before that they propelled the prophets in the louse.
    3. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 59 New
      -1
      Quote: dmitreach
      OGA. The example of the Jews is a textbook example. Read the Old Testament, with their "experience."
      (one and a half thousand years of experience! before the crucifixion of Christ)
      They had:
      Scribes
      The Pharisees
      Sadukey
      Essenes
      and other "tractors", but they crucified Christ ... And before that they propelled the prophets in the louse.

      With such logic and comparisons, you will overclock all science with educational institutions and teachers. )))
    4. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: GreatRussia
      With such logic and comparisons, you will overclock all science with educational institutions and teachers. )))

      and it would be necessary to draw science, historians first of all, you somehow gave examples of the bloody victims of the pagans, and thanks to the interpretation of the excavations, ignoramuses of historians and archaeologists, we have the notion that a teenager buried with four pieces of meat is a victim, not ancient cemetery
    5. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 22: 01 New
      -2
      With such logic and comparisons, you will overclock all science with educational institutions and teachers. )))

      Past
      Learn:
      Acts 11:17

      The people here were more honorable than Thessalonians: they took the word with all zeal, analyzing the scriptures daily is it exact So.

      To the point.
      You can explore the whole chapter. It will be useful. This is from the field of "humanities" and not theoretical physicists. Everything is available for the child.
    6. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 16 May 2013 22: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: dmitreach
      Past
      Learn:
      Acts 11:17


      What, sorry? ))))

      17 So, if God gave them the same gift as us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, then who am I to prevent God?


      What have you led to? laughing
    7. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 22: 45 New
      -2
      examining the Scriptures daily, is this true?

      Sorry, I'm typing fast. Confused in places 17:11. (they could gobble the bird themselves, tea is not small. Yes, and it’s not difficult)
      1 highlighted quote;
      2 copy to clipboard;
      3 insert into the search engine;
      4 study links.
    8. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 16 May 2013 22: 51 New
      -1
      Quote: dmitreach
      they could gobble the bird themselves, tea is not small. Yes, and it’s not difficult)

      even easier http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Bible/Index.htm
    9. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 22: 59 New
      -1
      Also an option
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 17 May 2013 10: 46 New
    -1
    Quote: dmitreach
    Sorry, I'm typing fast. Confused in places 17:11


    Well? What is the conclusion?
    Do you really think that without spiritual experience the letter means something? )))


    "Do you understand Tradition - as word of mouth ...
    and it was Tradition from life to life, from work to work. "

    St. Theophan the Recluse.
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach 21 May 2013 21: 36 New
    0
    Well? What is the conclusion?

    GreatRussia, try to think YOUR head, and not the brains of some "recluse." Luther, for some, is also "Holy", like "Pope", but there is no agreement. Probably a "spiritual experience" for understanding simple "letters" - over the edge.
  • Uncle
    Uncle 16 May 2013 18: 30 New
    +3
    Quote: dmitreach
    tell him his cross is Catholic or Orthodox?

    You are fooling around, but I will nevertheless tell you what the difference between the Catholic and Orthodox crosses is. In the number of nails with which the Savior is nailed to the cross. If the legs are nailed with one nail, together, then Catholic. If two, separately, then Orthodox.
    1. Joker
      Joker 16 May 2013 18: 45 New
      +3
      I will tell you what the difference between the Catholic and Orthodox crosses. In the number of nails with which the Savior is nailed to the cross. If the legs are nailed with one nail, together, then Catholic. If two, separately, then Orthodox.

      Thank you, did not know hi
    2. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 19: 47 New
      0
      You fooling around

      Not at all. I wanted to hear from the Orthodox what kind of cross. To continue to know.
      If Jesus were shot from the Pecheneg, would you bow to a machine gun? And if they hung? How would you climb into the loop, what would you wear? How's the office clerk anyway?
  • GG2012
    GG2012 16 May 2013 20: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: dmitreach
    tell him his cross is Catholic or Orthodox?

    Strongly hello to you!
    I do not consider myself a Christian ... but the picture you posted contradicts the context of the topic under discussion ...
    In the photo there is a representative of Romanian Roma (Gypsies) ... and this category of the population is prone to absurd fetishization ... what does it do without any sense ...
    In their homes, full of all Christian paraphernalia ... at the same time, the use and distribution of drugs, child prostitution, etc. - normal things ...
    Therefore, ... I think that using this picture as an example is inappropriate.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: dmitreach
        Only the picture is different. We have raised the theme of religious lecimeria. A good illustration, though not of an Orthodox sinner.
        But you can do this:

        in the foreground grub, and in the background a victim of gluttony
    2. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 21: 13 New
      +3
      I categorically welcome!
      Romanian Roma (gypsies).

      here. answer on the topic. psb.
      posted a photo for the question arose.
      prone to absurd fetishization, ...

      In the manner of ganstanagers. However, our brothers, in the 90s lit up with zloty chains ... A bad example is contagious ...
      using this picture as an example is inappropriate.

      It is quite appropriate. I do not want to spread about the Russian Orthodox Church, many personally hurt. One has already been deleted.
      The baptism of a Bandyukovsky Mercedes in the 90s - the same Faberge. Only the picture is different. We here raised the topic of religious hypocrisy. Illustration on the topic of religious hypocrisy. You can pick up a network of photos of watches, in the cost of a village church ..
      But you can do this: (Illustration for Pushkin)
      1. GG2012
        GG2012 16 May 2013 21: 25 New
        0
        Quote: dmitreach
        It is quite appropriate. I do not want to spread about the Russian Orthodox Church, many personally hurt. One has already been deleted.

        My comment was devoted only to this particular photo, "Romale and the Golden Cross."
        Regarding priestly hypocrisy - 100% agree with you. ALAS!!!
        It is! и It will eat!
        Quote: dmitreach
        We here raised the topic of religious hypocrisy. Illustration on the topic of religious hypocrisy.

        Just like you, you could put out the corresponding pictures ... but the Moderator has now gone ... Angrier than the evening mosquito near Lake Pond ... just put it out - sting / delete ...
        1. dmitreach
          dmitreach 16 May 2013 22: 06 New
          +1
          It is! and It will eat!

          then yes...
          but the moderator has now gone ...

          Not at all. Moderators are people too. Today they gave the heat ... This dispute lit laughing
  • Seraph
    Seraph 22 May 2013 05: 03 New
    -1
    The fact that this person has ponte instead of faith is likely. And according to our fellow atheists judge by believers? How can you distinguish enemies if you can’t recognize your friends? Christianity is distinguished by modesty
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 33 New
      -1
      Quote: dmitreach
      the picture is similar in the background ... probably it was shot in one day.

      Instead of a discussion, govnemotivators rushed.
      1. dmitreach
        dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 59 New
        -2
        Does it hurt my eyes?
        Christ was crucified in this way, only for criticizing the "priests."
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 16 May 2013 21: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: dmitreach
          Does it hurt my eyes?
          Christ was crucified in this way, only for criticizing the "priests."

          Fakes, frauds and moldy anti-religious propaganda are cut with the same slogans and demotivators, instead of an adequate discussion of the issue on a topic that you basically do not need. smile
          1. dmitreach
            dmitreach 16 May 2013 22: 10 New
            -2
            instead of an adequate discussion of the issue on a topic that you basically do not need.

            OGA. and I’m just interested in the bible from too much time ...
            here's another excerpt:
            45
            And entering the temple, he began to expel those who sold in it and who bought,
            46
            saying to them: it is written: My house is a house of prayer, and you made it a den of robbers.
            47
            And he taught every day in the temple. The high priests and scribes and elders of the people sought to destroy him,
            48
            and did not find what to do with Him; because all the people relentlessly listened to him.
            (Luke 19 chapter)
          2. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 16 May 2013 22: 12 New
            0
            Quote: GreatRussia
            Fakes, frauds and moldy anti-religious propaganda are cut with the same slogans and demotivators, instead of an adequate discussion of the issue on a topic that you basically do not need.

            It’s useless to argue with you. You don’t own the information, but react to evidence (links) ................ like a nightmare ......... and not at all constructivism.
      2. GG2012
        GG2012 16 May 2013 20: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Instead of a discussion, govnemotivators rushed.

        For information ... on emotional and visual content, as well as on psychological effects, ... one lucky demotivator, worth hundreds of empty comments.
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 55 New
          0
          Quote: GG2012
          For information ... on the emotional and visual content, as well as on the psychological impact, ... one successful demotivator is worth hundreds of empty comments.

          Yes, yes, passed:


          Lively, lively, talented, witty and openly attacking the dominant clergy, the journalism of the old atheists of the XNUMXth century will turn out to be a thousand times more suitable for awakening people from a religious dream than boring, dry, not illustrated by almost any skillfully selected facts, paraphrases of Marxism that prevail in our literature and which (there is nothing to hide) often distort Marxism.

          V. I. Ulyanov - theorist of Marxism, leader of the world proletariat, founder of the Bolshevik party
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 31 New
    0
    Quote: alexandr00070
    And then, to him that is all that he has exactly God

    And how does this compare with personal property?
    1. Joker
      Joker 16 May 2013 18: 53 New
      +1
      And how does this compare with personal property?

      Well, as if you should be more modest, in my opinion Jesus said that one should live modestly. Instead of weighing 10 crosses made of gold, and riding limousines, if you were more modest and fulfilled all your covenants, then there would be no such claims or demotivators.
      1. Uncle
        Uncle 16 May 2013 18: 57 New
        +1
        Well, if you don’t like golden crosses, here is such an Orthodox monk.
      2. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 59 New
        0
        Quote: Joker
        Well, as if you should be more modest, in my opinion Jesus said that one should live modestly. And not with 10 kilogram crosses of gold to be weighed,

        And who is weighed?


        ... yes, ride limousines, if you were more modest and fulfilled all the covenants, then there would be no such claims or demotivators.

        Again. What does it have to do with PERSONAL property?
        1. Joker
          Joker 16 May 2013 19: 21 New
          +4
          Again. And here is PERSONAL property?

          Moreover, faith is judged primarily by priests and other clergy, and they disgrace their faith in their behavior, how can one go to the temple, knowing that the priest drives a bentley there and has his own penthouse? It turns out unpleasantly, doesn't it? No one condemns Orthodoxy, condemns these priests, dishonoring faith.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 17 May 2013 10: 51 New
            -1
            Quote: alexandr00070
            really who hung himself?

            Again rotten demotivator.
            Tell me, do you like to offend people of an alien faith to you?
            Does your religion teach you this?

            And here are the robes for the service of the Lord and personal modesty? Do not confuse anything? No?
            1. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 18 May 2013 12: 27 New
              0
              Quote: GreatRussia
              Tell me, do you like to offend people of an alien faith to you?
              Does your religion teach you this?

              I mean, what religion is I, I’m baptized, but after Cyril came to power, after inflated prices in the church for services, after financial scandals, after the church intervened in secular life, after the church crawled into school, after a lot of new information I learned about the emergence of Christianity, its introduction in Russia, and also because education prevailed over obscurantism, we still live in the 21st century, I am becoming more and more a convinced atheist who blames Russia's greatness not for Christianity invented by Jews, but for something but th
    2. dmitreach
      dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 58 New
      -2
      State prisoners also contain. only grub is not so exquisite.
    3. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 06 New
      0
      Quote: GreatRussia
      And how does this compare with personal property?

      I have a relative who makes candles for the church and draws icons, and so he says that the tithe from each sold thing in the church goes to the patriarch personally and calls the patriarch the richest man in Russia
  • Seraph
    Seraph 22 May 2013 05: 08 New
    -1
    Personally, I feel. When in the summer I stand at the throne and the city flows in a hundred streams. So I would like to dress in such a light tunic, but there are canons of the Church and everything is written in them, what, who, when to wear. In each element of the vestments of the clergyman is a symbol. And, by the way, neither the present Patriarch nor the deceased wore any magnificent and expensive vestments. You judge by Komsomolskaya Pravda, the Echo of Moscow and the opinions of Ksenia Sobchak, and I will believe my eyes because I served with Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Alexy more than once
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 16 May 2013 16: 58 New
    +1
    The patriarch, like any other leader, must have a certain image, which should contribute to his popularization.
    If you consider a visit from this position, much will become clear. For the first time in so many years, he came to China, they say, here we do not forget about believers.
    There is no real political background here and cannot be. For China in the 21 century = Confucianism + wise CCP. And that’s it. There is no place for Orthodoxy.
    As noted above, for an ordinary Chinese, our patriarch in his vestments and with a rich retinue is akin to a funny mummer.
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 16 May 2013 17: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Iraclius
      Confucianism + wise CCP. And that’s it. There is no place for Orthodoxy.

      The ideology of the CCP is also not a frail religion, so nothing religion shines there.
  • Vtel
    Vtel 16 May 2013 17: 10 New
    0
    Yes, Orthodox China - it sounds, but not yet, if at all. Nobody has yet canceled "Communism." But in principle, a big friend at your side is better than a bunch of crap. God grant that the Chinese become brothers in faith!
  • Circle
    Circle 16 May 2013 17: 11 New
    0
    The support of Orthodoxy in any country of the world will be useful for any state. Because this faith preaches real human values ​​and never calls for violence. This contributes to stability in every country where such a community exists. Unlike the general people: let's spill someone else's blood and life will become much better! With the exception of the defense of the Fatherland.

    So they explained to me that Vasily the Great (http://clck.ru/8eVqh) very clearly said that the defense of the Motherland was a good deed, but a soldier who had come from the war for some time (it seems 3 years) was not allowed to participate in the sacrament. Therefore, I concluded that the Orthodox Church admits murder on the battlefield for its own friends, for the Fatherland, but because if there is a commandment “Thou shalt not kill,” participation in the war must be atoned for by excommunication. And all this time we must pray for the forgiveness of the sin of murder.

    ****
    Here is the rule: our fathers did not impute murder on abuse for murder, excusing, as I think, advocates of chastity and piety. But maybe it would be good to advise that they, as having unclean hands, refrain from communing tokmo holy mysteries for three years.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 22 New
      +3
      For any state, caring for its citizens is useful. And not brainwashing them. Including and with the help of religion. There is a desire to go to temples and pay money for all sorts of sacraments - let them go. It is strictly forbidden to climb into church affairs.
    2. barmaglotta
      barmaglotta 16 May 2013 17: 41 New
      0
      killing, destroying an enemy and executing are three different things, including and in the Old Testament.
    3. heathen
      heathen 16 May 2013 18: 00 New
      +1
      Yeah, we only defended ourselves. And they never called for violence. And that is why, from the 16th century the state grew and grew, becoming an empire and stretched out its lands in the end on 1/6 of the land from the Baltic to the Pacific Ocean and from the northern ice to the Caspian. Dear, where is the logic?
  • heathen
    heathen 16 May 2013 17: 19 New
    +1
    I feel that minuses will go now, but I cannot but say.
    If we consider Orthodoxy as an object of geopolitics, then of course it has considerable potential in uniting people and nations. But if you delve into its essence, it becomes clear that it is unlikely to contribute to the formation of a strong, intelligent, freedom-loving personality. Tell me, does anyone really follow Christian principles? Not external attributes like fasting, prayers, communions, etc., but principles?
    If you hit the left cheek, turn the right one ... Bless those who persecute and curse you ... Slaves, obey your masters with meekness and humility ... etc. etc.
    As for me, with such slogans you can immediately start digging graves yourself.
    Geopolitics is geopolitics, but is it really necessary to lay the foundation for your future life, based on what is written for humble and meek slaves, and not for free and strong people?
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 16 May 2013 17: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: heathen
      I feel that minuses will go now, but I cannot but say.

      Not Christian minus signers at work, they'll catch up later, then hold on
      1. Middle-brother
        Middle-brother 16 May 2013 18: 06 New
        0
        Quote: alexandr00070
        Christian backing trackers
        I want to fix it - Orthodox
        1. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 16 May 2013 18: 17 New
          0
          Quote: Middle Brother
          I want to fix it - Orthodox

          not all Orthodox are sympathetic
    2. Iraclius
      Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 25 New
      -2
      For now, plus. yes These are all simple paraphernalia filled with craftiness. God is in the soul and heart of man, and not in the power of a fat priest. Which house was built with the money of his brothers and the richest in the village.
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 07 New
        -2
        Quote: Iraclius
        For now, plus. yes This is all a simple paraphernalia filled with craftiness. God is in the soul and heart of man,

        So now you are not talking about the Christian religion.


        not in the grip of a fat priest. Which house was built with the money of his brothers and the richest in the village.


        Moscow. 22nd of June. INTERFAX - Professor of the Moscow Theological Academy Protodeacon Andrei Kuraev recognized the problem of "black sheep" among the Orthodox clergy and noted that their percentage has not changed since the time of Christ.

        “There are people with a professionally atrophied sense of conscience. A normal priest has a high professional self-esteem, he is convinced that liturgy is the greatest thing on earth. This is not a party, not a corporation, but God’s service, and you see that people need it that they are changing, "Father Andrei said in an interview published by the Estonian weekly Day after Day.

        At the same time, he continued, some people are tempted to "make this self-esteem personal and identify their whole lives with the high that is in it."

        "So it turns out: you fed me in a restaurant - you served Christ. You gave me a Mercedes - you gave it to the Church. I take it from the church box office to build a summer house - after all, at the country house, I pray for my parishioners," Protodeacon A. Kuraev.

        According to him, a person himself does not notice, "how the magnetic poles are interchanged, and he begins to serve not God, but himself."

        "There are quite a few such priests. It is comforting that since the Gospel times their percentage has been stable. Every Twelfth - Judas", - considers father Andrey.

        http://www.interfax-religion.ru/print.php?act=news&id=30732
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 16 May 2013 18: 19 New
          -1
          Quote: GreatRussia
          So now you are not talking about the Christian religion.

          Just got it? I've already gotten so many hates that you hate so much that mom don’t cry! laughing And I'm not talking about faith at all. Where have I even written a word about her? I write that priests dash "black sheep" and paraphernalia itself have nothing to do with faith.
          And I am outraged when the Patriarch begins to meddle in the affairs of the state. Why does the chief rabbi of Russia not go to China and convert the Chinese to Judaism? Or the supreme mufti?
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 38 New
            +3
            Quote: Iraclius
            Just got it? I've already gotten so many hates that you hate so much that mom don’t cry! laughing But I'm not talking about faith at all. Where have I even written a word about her?

            Hate me?
            I’m used to getting them in such numbers in significant numbers for my position on the issues of the ROC MP.


            I write that priests dash "black sheep" and paraphernalia itself have nothing to do with faith.

            Black sheep do not have. With paraphernalia ... Well, then they are ministers, in order to have acc. form, charter, etc.


            And I am outraged when the Patriarch begins to meddle in the affairs of the state.

            In which in this case state. business in China climbs the Patriarch? What are you talking about? ))))


            Why does the chief rabbi of Russia not go to China and convert the Chinese to Judaism? Or the supreme mufti?

            Probably this question is to the mufti or rabbi. )))
            Are there Chinese synagogues or mosques in China?
          2. Uncle
            Uncle 16 May 2013 18: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Iraclius
            I've already gotten so many hates that you hate

            Yes, you need three hundred years. smile
            Quote: Iraclius
            Russia's chief rabbi does not go to China and does not convert Chinese to Judaism

            By the fact that the Chinese are not Jews. laughing
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 03 New
              0
              Well, even here it is not needed. recourse
              Just kidding laughing
              No, I think differently. I see that the ROC is playing an active game to increase its influence. This is at variance with the assertion that in our state the church is separate from the state.
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 12 New
                +4
                Quote: Iraclius
                I see that the ROC is playing an active game to increase its influence. This is at variance with the assertion that in our state the church is separate from the state.

                She does not hide it. True spiritual influence.
                Otherwise, we would have watched a bunch of cleric deputies in parliament.
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 30 New
                  0
                  What I mentioned above is pure casuistry. Is she contagious? What spiritual influence if Chaplin said in black and white that the Church (mind you, not faith!) Strives to take center stage in society? I read as it is written. You invent sacred truths supposedly hidden between the lines.
        2. dmitreach
          dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 37 New
          -1
          GreatRussia
          Andrei Kuraev recognized the problem of “black sheep” among the Orthodox clergy and noted that their percentage has not changed since the time of Christ.

          For this it is said in the scripture:
          16
          You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes harvested from blackthorn, or figs from burdock?
          17
          So every good tree brings good fruits, and a bad tree brings bad fruits.
          18
          A good tree cannot bear bad fruits, nor a bad tree can bear good fruits.
          19
          Every tree that does not bear the fruit of good is cut down and thrown into the fire.
          20
          So by their fruits you will know them.
          21
          Not everyone who says to me: “Lord! Lord!” Will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he will do the will of My Father in Heaven.
          22
          Many will say to me that day: Lord! Lord Was it not in your name that we prophesied? and didn’t they cast out demons in your name? and didn’t you perform many miracles in your name?
          23
          And then I will declare to them: I never knew you; depart from Me, doing iniquity.


          One problem: where to rank Miracles with a clock? For this Sacrament is incomprehensible!
          1. dmitreach
            dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 41 New
            -2
            было [media=http://sterlitamak.ru/upload/resize_cache/blog/u11836-blog-s1/2ce/750_120
            0_1 / 3564-02.jpg] This is not for you to feed the people with five fish!
            was
            1. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 43 New
              0
              Quote: dmitreach
              was

              Again. This is a question for Madame who edited the photo. Moreover, the video from this meeting with frames in which the clock is present both hung and hangs.
              1. dmitreach
                dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 18 New
                0
                Again. This is a question for Madame who edited the photo.

                Yes, I know about the designer. The question then is? what painted badly?
                OK.
                The theme of the sermon is "about money-grubbing" in Ukraine, and the clock is riotted to the whole universe ... worth a church in the county town "N". Was the designer again a mess?

                Eneeee ... You either put on your underwear or take off your cross. (folk)
                1. GreatRussia
                  GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 23 New
                  0
                  Quote: dmitreach
                  Yes, I know about the designer. The question then is? what painted badly?
                  OK.
                  The theme of the sermon is "about money-grubbing" in Ukraine, and the clock is riotted to the whole universe ... worth a church in the county town "N". Was the designer again a mess?

                  Eneeee ... You either put on your underwear or take off your cross. (folk)

                  So put it on.

                  Again.
                  Show this watch. It is advisable to reference with the number and model, and it is on the hand of the Patriarch.
                  A link to the OUN Photoshop during a visit by the Patriarch to the "Square" should not be offered.
                  Take action.
                  1. alexandr00070
                    alexandr00070 16 May 2013 21: 57 New
                    -1
                    Quote: GreatRussia
                    Show this watch. It is advisable to reference with the number and model, and it is on the hand of the Patriarch.
                    A link to the OUN Photoshop during a visit by the Patriarch to the "Square" should not be offered.
                    Take action.

                    please
                    http://synews.ru/news/tema/3638-foto-patriarkh-kirill-i-ego-chasy-za-30-tysjach.
                    html
                    http://www.unian.net/news/328957-patriarh-kirill-nosit-chasyi-za-30-tyisyach-evr
                    o-foto.html
                    http://zagony.ru/2009/07/31/u_patriarkha_kirilla_krutye_chasy_4_foto.html
                    1. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 16 May 2013 22: 02 New
                      0
                      Quote: alexandr00070
                      please
                      http://synews.ru/news/tema/3638-foto-patriarkh-kirill-i-ego-chasy-za-30-tysjach.

                      html
                      http://www.unian.net/news/328957-patriarh-kirill-nosit-chasyi-za-30-tyisyach-evr

                      o-foto.html
                      http://zagony.ru/2009/07/31/u_patriarkha_kirilla_krutye_chasy_4_foto.html

                      I still believe that you have some problems with the perception of the text. I will try again to repeat my question:

                      It is advisable to reference with the number and model, and it is on the hand of the Patriarch.

                      Explain why or try to "peep" yourself?
                      1. dmitreach
                        dmitreach 16 May 2013 22: 17 New
                        +1
                        I can give a pencil and a lip-sealing machine. thick trolling - not appropriate for having an object.
                        It is advisable to reference with the number and model, and it is on the hand of the Patriarch.

                        mega thick. not comme il faut. Disappointed in the opponent.
                      2. alexandr00070
                        alexandr00070 16 May 2013 22: 35 New
                        0
                        Quote: GreatRussia
                        I still believe that you have some problems with the perception of the text. I will try again to repeat my question:

                        It is advisable to reference with the number and model, and it is on the hand of the Patriarch.

                        Explain why or try to "peep" yourself?

                        cool excuse, it seems that he got the right answer and seemed to be poked in the face with facts, but no, he didn’t shout and everyone was on a horse (the question is excuse and dumb) so they don’t argue, don’t know how to admit mistakes, don’t meddle, even Cyril admitted that he gave this watch, and you forehead everything in the wall
                  2. dmitreach
                    dmitreach 16 May 2013 22: 14 New
                    0
                    Show this watch. It is advisable to reference with the number and model, and it is on the hand of the Patriarch.
                    A link to the OUN Photoshop during a visit by the Patriarch to the "Square" should not be offered.
                    Take action.

                    Have you been banned in Google? Or that year you lived on the moon? Or do you have a "personal-camp infovacuum"? Only the lazy did not talk about this. It's like Putin with amphora ... So prove it to me what amphora, ugh The clock is painted by the OUN team. Otherwise, the drain, like a clay, is counted.
                  3. heathen
                    heathen 17 May 2013 10: 54 New
                    0
                    Do you propose to quickly run away to Gundyaev and ask him to pose with his watch, to take a close-up of his watch, so that not only the model was visible, but also the number? Well, you have fantasies :) 0
                    1. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 17 May 2013 11: 20 New
                      0
                      Quote: heathen
                      Do you propose to quickly run away to Gundyaev and ask him to pose with his watch, to take a close-up of his watch, so that not only the model was visible, but also the number? Well, you have fantasies :) 0

                      I do not demand from you over effort. I ask you to show where the info was taken about expensive watches.
                      Give a photo with the number and model.
                      Here they try to slip a message with anything, instead of answering such a simple request.
                      The conclusion, please, is obvious.
                      You can continue to run .... in place and absorb network stuffing Russophobian-liberal-anti-church tusni.
            2. Joker
              Joker 16 May 2013 19: 31 New
              +5
              Come on with this watch, it's still a gift. But if this were an isolated case, and this is complete, starting with the fact that the priest’s outfit costs from 30 000 rubles and above, ending with limousines and cottages, it is banal to go to church in which such people serve. But the metropolitan will die and bury him as a holy man, whom he is not, that’s wrong, it’s wrong that out of faith they made a profitable business. And I don’t like the lie that Christianity brought with it, and this lie periodically pops up.

              How can ancestors be called second-class people? am Yes, tell me who I would give him in the face right away, you see there was no written language, scientists have already proved a million times that writing was simplified with the adoption of Christianity, but did not create it. And tons of similar lies! Take, for example, the myth of the descent of heaven from the Holy Fire in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem, how many people fooled their heads, that he himself was on fire, the scientists were not allowed in there, and recently admitted that they themselves light it. That’s why I’m at least baptized, but still an atheist, because there are too many lies in the faith, but in any case I respect the faith and believe that it has a lot of good, but in the faith itself, and not in the one who promotes it.
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 16 May 2013 19: 36 New
                0
                Quote: Joker
                How can ancestors be called second-class people? am

                Yes, how much can one and the same cross-examine? Did you listen to the interview? Where does he call the Slavs second-class people, huh?
                What is he talking about? That:

                Not Slavs, but pagan Slavs who performed human sacrifices, which for the Greco-Roman world were second-class people, savages, to whom the enlightened men of this world went with a sermon.


                As a matter of fact, they correctly considered them as such, for how can those who engage human sacrifices, including children's:

                "Pagan sanctuaries of the ancient Slavs" Rusanova I.P., Timoshchuk B.A.

                http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%DF%E7%FB%F7%E5%F1%EA%E8%E5_%F1%E2%FF%F2%E8%EB%E8%F
                9%E0_%E4%F0%E5%E2%ED%E8%F5_%F1%EB%E0%E2%FF%ED
                1. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 16 May 2013 20: 15 New
                  0
                  Quote: GreatRussia
                  and pagan Slavs who made human sacrifices, which for the Greco-Roman world were second-class people, savages, to whom the enlightened men of this world went with a sermon.

                  You carefully read the text provided, “sacrifices from the time of the Old Testament,” and another teenager porgeben and he was brought to the “other world” with parts of meat, because not the opposite is the part of teenagers and a cow. And even Slavs-pagans, as you say not there were customs of human victims, and they appeared from the time when Vladimir returned from the Varangians and seized power completely, and to compromise the Vedic faith, it was he who ordered the construction of a temple with idols to the ancient gods and introduced the bloody sacrifice of a 10 year old boy whom you if you remember the first great martyrs for faith, it was a 10-year-old boy and his father, Christians, on whom the lot fell, and the father did not give his son, they were killed, and after the introduction of Christianity they were canonized
                  1. heathen
                    heathen 17 May 2013 10: 48 New
                    0
                    The sacrifice of those Varangians is also a Christian myth, without foundation. If it’s interesting and not too lazy to read, then the details are here - http://bogunemil.narod.ru/jertvi.htm
                    1. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 17 May 2013 11: 16 New
                      0
                      Quote: heathen
                      The sacrifice of those Varangians is also a Christian myth, without foundation. If it’s interesting and not too lazy to read, then the details are here - http://bogunemil.narod.ru/jertvi.htm

                      A very strange conclusion about the work of Soviet science.

                      I.P. Rusanova, B.A. Timoshchuk. Zbruch Sanctuary (preliminary announcement). // Soviet archeology, 1986, No. 4, p. 90-99.
                      Pagination saved. Page numbers are at the bottom of the page. (As in the magazine)


                      http://www.russiancity.ru/hbooks/h036.htm
                2. heathen
                  heathen 17 May 2013 11: 15 New
                  +1
                  Rusanova and Tymoshchuk can assume (which they, by the way, are doing, suggest - no more) whatever they want. This is not a reason to pass off these hypotheses as the ultimate truth. My opinion, based on various sources, is this. There were human casualties, I do not deny. Rarely, during a period of great upheaval, but there were. And the victims were divided into three types: enemies defeated in battle, criminals sentenced to death and voluntary (!) Messengers to the gods (adults, of course). The bones found on the territory of the temple do not say anything. With the same right, archaeologists could talk about sacrifices in Christian churches a thousand years later, based on the presence of graves of buried people there.
                  In general, it is not clear to me how a contemporary of meaningless mass deaths from abortion, alcoholism, drug addiction, road traffic accidents and other and other things can call savage ancestors who brought incomparably (!!!) smaller (we can say insignificant compared to this) victims in the name of life. Who else is the savage here?
                  1. GreatRussia
                    GreatRussia 17 May 2013 11: 30 New
                    0
                    Quote: heathen
                    My opinion, based on various sources, is this. There were human casualties, I do not deny. Rarely, during a period of great upheaval, but there were. And the victims were divided into three types: enemies defeated in battle, criminals sentenced to death and voluntary (!) Messengers to the gods (adults, of course). The bones found on the territory of the temple do not say anything.

                    Yes, you, as an archaeologist, know better. Well, who are these Rusantsova with Tymoshchuk? winked



                    Sanctuary Zvenigorod on the Zbruch River (Carpathian):

                    Evidence of human sacrifices was found in several structures of the Zvenigorod sanctuary ... Here was found a skeleton of a man aged 2-20, divided into 25 parts. Bones mainly belong to young men aged 20 to 45 years and children from 1 year to 14 years. Bones of men were found in 40 places, adolescents in 30 places.


                    At one temple, human sacrifices took place, including children. The bones of more than 30 dissected skeletons were found, stacked in pits and accompanied by things.
                    The remains of the sacrifices were covered with earth, and a stone platform was built on top, on which new victims were laid - the human skull, animal bones, silver temporal rings, fragments of glass bracelets.
                    All the rites performed in this room indicate agrarian magic: attempts to appease the gods with rich sacrifices and prayers for the harvest.

                    ... Next to the Babin Mountain there is a burial ground with corpses and corpses on another hill.
                    A feature of this burial ground is the burial of infant skulls here without ritual equipment. They make up 25% of all corpses.




                    With the same right, archaeologists could talk about sacrifices in Christian churches a thousand years later, based on the presence of graves of buried people there.

                    Could. The characteristic signs of sacrifices, such as dismemberment, ritual inventory, etc., and so on, are not determined.
                    1. alexandr00070
                      alexandr00070 18 May 2013 12: 43 New
                      +1
                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      Yes, you, as an archaeologist, know better. Well, who are these Rusantsova with Tymoshchuk?

                      indeed who, scientists exhausted by communist ideology, drew conclusions in favor of the party line, instilling in us the theory of Darwin, which has almost been canceled, can they now be authorities - no.

                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      ..Next to the Babin Mountain, a burial ground with corpses and corpses is located on another hill.
                      A feature of this burial ground is the burial of infant skulls here without ritual equipment. They make up 25% of all corpses.

                      remember the discarded barrels with embryos discovered by the prosecutor’s office, about 200, so if they were taken out and dug up, then our descendants would have the task of this sacrifice. We buried a burial ground with victims of the raid, or epidemic, and let us get clever, earn titles, and since the Khazars in Russia strongly attributed the Slavs to fables, by the way, there were specialists in the Khazars, and there are people offering them, namely children (boys over 10 years old) the victims
                    2. heathen
                      heathen 21 May 2013 11: 51 New
                      0
                      Yes, you, as an archaeologist, know better. Well, who are these Rusantsova with Tymoshchuk?

                      Yes, I just know how the vast majority of archaeologists work.
                      "And what is this unknown crap? What is it for?"
                      "Yes FIG knows him!"
                      "Well, we’ll write it down, which means, as usual - an object of worship ..."

                      And about the bones, alexandr00070 already said everything ...
              2. Iraclius
                Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 40 New
                +2
                Joker, you toss beads ... These are well-known facts that have been chewed thousands of times. You can’t prove anything to the fanatics. In my city, the RAS native branch is huddled in the basement. But they are building a drop dead cathedral in the city center. I made conclusions long ago ...
          2. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 41 New
            0
            Quote: dmitreach
            one problem: where to rank the Miracles with the clock? This sacrament is not comprehensible.

            To the zeal of a not entirely honest editor.
            The video there was hanging and hanging. No one removed him from the site.
            Oh, and by the way, what brand of watches on this site? Can you tell me the model and number?
            Photos of the OUN members from a visit to the Patriarch "do not offer" as a dock do not offer, because fake.
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 22 New
              0
              To the zeal of a not entirely honest editor.
              The video there was hanging and hanging. No one removed him from the site.
              Oh, and by the way, what brand of watches on this site? Can you tell me the model and number?
              Photos of the OUN members from a visit to the Patriarch "do not offer" as a dock do not offer, because fake.

              Yes, I know about the designer. The question then is? what painted badly?
              OK.
              The theme of the sermon is "about money-grubbing" in Ukraine, and the clock is riotted to the whole universe ... worth a church in the county town "N". Was the designer again a mess?

              Eneeee ... You either put on your underwear or take off your cross. (folk)
          3. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 16 May 2013 18: 43 New
            +4
            Quote: dmitreach
            For this it is said in the scripture:

            Why aren't everyone quoted? You have now used the method of sectarians, to quote, only part of the desired text. Spread it all, then we’ll read it wink
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach 16 May 2013 20: 24 New
              -2
              Why aren't everyone quoted? You have now used the method of sectarians, to quote, only part of the desired text. Spread it all, then we’ll read it

              Right! how am I so ... I sprinkle ashes on my head. But I will be consistent. To lay out the entire Bible, or only the gospel of Matthew?
    3. barmaglotta
      barmaglotta 16 May 2013 17: 37 New
      +1
      Unless a very strong (and really free) personality is able to calmly turn his cheek, and not spray his saliva and wave his limbs.

      But essentially 98% of people need to go through educational program to understand Christian principles, this is not a policy in the kitchen (forum) to discuss.
      1. heathen
        heathen 16 May 2013 17: 50 New
        +2
        The strong may or may not substitute - depending on the circumstances, when it is needed, and when not.

        But the weak will ALWAYS substitute, as, incidentally, the Christian scripture teaches. It will substitute simply for the reason that it cannot be otherwise.
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 56 New
          -4
          Casuistry is the hobby of the priests. They are not friends with logic at all.
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 May 2013 18: 46 New
            0
            Quote: Iraclius
            Casuistry is the hobby of the priests. They are not friends with logic at all.

            Unproven and unreasonable slogan!
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 05 New
              +1
              You tell this to Galilee. After that shameful trial. Has something changed since then?
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 16 May 2013 20: 27 New
                +2
                Quote: Iraclius
                You tell this to Galilee. After that shameful trial.

                And where does the RUSSIAN Orthodox Church and "Western values"?


                Has something changed since then?

                Ask those who persecuted genetics and cybernetics.
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 16 May 2013 20: 33 New
                  0
                  They are all smeared in one world. Or is there little obscurantism in our church history? And what is the habit of answering a question with a question?
        2. barmaglotta
          barmaglotta 16 May 2013 19: 07 New
          +2
          No. The weak will put poison, write a denunciation ... in general, it harbors malice and, if necessary, sweeps it out. Strong - he will be able to convince and correct, and if this is impossible, he will stop evil by force, but only by force it can only be stopped, not corrected. Christianity over 2 thousand years has shown that it can teach not only the latter, but also the first.
          1. heathen
            heathen 17 May 2013 11: 45 New
            0
            No. The weak will put poison, write a denunciation ... in general, it harbors malice and, if necessary, sweeps it out.

            Just do not make a substitution of concepts. “Weak” is not equal to “vile”. Having become vile, the weak ceases to be weak, he gains some evil power.
            Strong - he will be able to convince and correct, and if this is impossible, he will stop evil by force, but only by force it can only be stopped, not corrected.

            Evil cannot be fixed. It can be prevented, nipped, or compensated. Humble non-resistance to evil in 99,9% of cases is perceived by the carrier of evil as weakness and is not able to teach him anything. It has been proven almost millions of times.
            Christianity over 2 thousand years has shown that it can teach not only the latter, but also the first.

            Christianity, having become the cause of rivers of blood and tons of suffering, throughout its history contradicted the principles voiced by the Nazarene. And the only thing the shepherds taught their flock was not to complain when they cut it and cut it.
      2. Iraclius
        Iraclius 16 May 2013 17: 50 New
        +1
        Why go through something? The most important thing is the commandments. This is the core of Christianity. And these commandments are brazenly trampled every second. Even the church itself.
        We must not engage in educational programs on religion, but to educate our people as patriots and take care of them. I do not see the church in Russia taking care of its citizens and even parishioners. Take a look at how the service goes in the church. There, with an empty wallet, they will not be stupidly allowed! And do these people want to teach me ethics and morality?
        1. Uncle
          Uncle 16 May 2013 18: 38 New
          +3
          Quote: Iraclius
          Casuistry is the hobby of the priests. They are not friends with logic at all.

          Quote: Iraclius
          There, with an empty wallet, they will not be stupidly allowed!

          How do you know everything, you are not allowed into the church. smile
          1. dmitreach
            dmitreach 16 May 2013 18: 46 New
            +2
            Do you want to say: They admit it for free, but it takes it "for an exit"?
            1. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 16 May 2013 19: 46 New
              0
              Quote: dmitreach
              Do you want to say: They admit it for free, but it takes it "for an exit"?

              that it’s interesting to check the remembrance no one can
          2. Iraclius
            Iraclius 16 May 2013 18: 52 New
            +3
            I know I know. The church is near the house. And I had to talk with priests. And I also know that many priests who simply are supposed to be experts in the history of religion are elementary uneducated, dark people. I tried to talk with one about the Union of Florence, so he simply rounded his eyes. request
            Just in case, I know many prayers in Church Slavonic, Greek and Latin.
    4. Middle-brother
      Middle-brother 16 May 2013 18: 05 New
      +5
      Quote: heathen
      As for me, with such slogans you can immediately start digging graves yourself.

      Hope for God, but don’t be fooled. Blind obedience is fanaticism, not Faith.
      Quote: heathen
      Geopolitics is geopolitics, but is it really necessary to lay the foundation for your future life, based on what is written for humble and meek slaves, and not for free and strong people?

      In your words, are the Orthodox humble and meek slaves?
      1. heathen
        heathen 17 May 2013 11: 55 New
        0
        In your words, are the Orthodox humble and meek slaves?

        No. In my words, the Orthodox are not slaves, but not thanks, but contrary to Orthodoxy. They live not according to Orthodox (read - Christian) principles, but for everyday reasons, trying to fit them into a creed. It turns out to fit poorly, clumsily, because this theory does not agree with practice. That is why the question is - why lie to ourselves?
        1. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 18 May 2013 12: 50 New
          0
          Quote: heathen
          In my words, the Orthodox are not slaves, but not thanks, but contrary to Orthodoxy. They live not according to Orthodox (read - Christian) principles, but for everyday reasons, trying to fit them into a creed

          not contrary to Orthodoxy, but thanks to Orthodoxy brought to Christianity by Sergius of Radonezh, who preserved the Vedic, Orthodox, rites and teachings, the Russians were able to withstand and not become completely Christians. It is Orthodoxy that does not allow Christianity to completely conquer Russia, because of this, because the Khazars are in power and are furious
    5. Uncle
      Uncle 16 May 2013 18: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: heathen
      As for me, with such slogans you can immediately start digging graves yourself.

      Well, why understand everything literally? The essence of the commandments is the love of brother and God. For example, your little son accidentally hit you painfully. Will you be furious and answer him? No !, he is small and does not know what he is doing. So adults, not being small in age, but small in spiritual development do evil, not knowing what they are doing. Well, with regard to the cheek, I’ll say that God rules everything, and it is by his will that we get slaps in the face, anger at his brother is an empty matter. But this is wisdom, not everyone even at the end of life comes to understanding.
      1. heathen
        heathen 17 May 2013 12: 31 New
        0
        Well, why understand everything literally? The essence of the commandments is the love of brother and God.
        As it is written, as I understand it. Not used to call black red and yellow raspberry. And the brothers for me are only those whom I myself consider as such. Somehow, there is no desire for Chicatillo to write to relatives.
        For example, your little son accidentally hit you painfully. Will you be furious and answer him? No !, he is small and does not know what he is doing. So adults, not being small in age, but small in spiritual development do evil, not knowing what they are doing.
        Do you know the difference between our approaches? You perceive the world as dogmas, and I as expediency. You have been told "do not hit," so never dare to strike. You are told "hit", then always hit, no matter what. And to retreat from the words even a bit is a sin. Why bring the idea to the point of absurdity, giving ridiculous examples?
        From here, by the way, the legs grow at all these biblical insoluble contradictions, which many are trying to explain by far-fetched piles of intellectuals. What for?
        Well, here is a reverse example for you. A "grown-up but small in spiritual development" person came to your house to rob and kill. He does not know what he is doing. So, will you calmly stand and try to convince him while he cuts your throat? if so, I can only wish you good luck in this, but I still prefer more effective methods.
        Well, with regard to the cheek, I’ll say that God rules everything, and it is by his will that we get slaps in the face, anger at his brother is an empty matter. But this is wisdom, not everyone even at the end of life comes to understanding.

        Is everything controlled by your god? War, epidemics, catastrophes, injustice, vices, troubles, sufferings - does he send this? Why do you need such a cruel god? And why do we need wisdom from which I will only get worse?
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  • Rrv
    Rrv 16 May 2013 19: 00 New
    +6
    -----------------------
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 16 May 2013 19: 11 New
      0
      Plus, RRV. Questions - they are different. And the only answer is a sin to think! There’s nothing to add. good
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    4. Rrv
      Rrv 16 May 2013 19: 20 New
      0
      ------------------

      1. Rrv
        Rrv 16 May 2013 19: 23 New
        -1
        --------------------------
  • does it
    does it 16 May 2013 20: 08 New
    0
    If you explain on the fingers, then the Orthodox Chinese will not plot anything bad against the Orthodox Russian laughing Looks like history does not teach anything! vast territories of Russia stuffed with resources and most importantly; assault on Constantinople by the crusaders in 1204
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 16 May 2013 20: 38 New
    -2
    Quote: Joker
    Strange, I didn’t notice this behind Sasha. If I do not agree with the warnings, I can tell administrators that they will be deleted, this is written in the site’s rules.

    then I was not ready, plus after the first warning I was super tolerant, but nevertheless I received 2 for about the same phrases, about the commercialization of the Russian Orthodox Church, about the ancestors of Christianity, Jews, etc.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 16 May 2013 20: 48 New
    +3
    IMHO, in the article the most important information is that in China the interference of foreign states in religious matters is rigidly fixed. We should learn this from the Chinese, for in this regard, with the collapse of the USSR, complete chaos is happening. negative
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 May 2013 21: 09 New
    0
    Quote: dmitreach
    But you can do this:

    Why not? You do not admit that a person can be sick?
  • Rrv
    Rrv 16 May 2013 21: 26 New
    0
    ----------------------------
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 16 May 2013 22: 14 New
      -2
      Quote: RRV
      ----------------------------

      I wonder if they are torn with such belts.
      1. Rrv
        Rrv 16 May 2013 22: 20 New
        -1
        But yak - escho like that !!! laughing
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Rrv
          Rrv 16 May 2013 22: 26 New
          -2
          ------------------------
          1. The comment was deleted.
        3. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 16 May 2013 22: 38 New
          0
          Quote: RRV
          But yak - escho like that !!!

          nevermind myself, but now it’s also not too sick. I think for hundreds of thousands and up to 2 years of jail
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 16 May 2013 22: 49 New
    0
    Guys who believe in Christ and do not believe, as well as atheists, have a cool site with interactive "sacred texts." http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Bible/Index.htm
    1. harrymur
      harrymur 16 May 2013 22: 59 New
      -3
      men plow in the field, and you need to check your brain, hand over the tests, man, a clear overdose, here it’s punishing you, those man’s priests did, they’ve robbed the man of grace, check for toxicosis, read your comments MUZHIK
      1. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 16 May 2013 23: 05 New
        0
        Quote: harrimur
        men plow in the field, but your brain needs to be checked, hand over the tests, man, an obvious overdose,

        he himself understood that he said, the man is writhing you from the word and you know about toxicosis, then it's for you
      2. morpex
        morpex 16 May 2013 23: 11 New
        +3
        men plow in the field,

        In this, do you think there is something shameful? For me it’s the other way around ... They need to be respected .. for what they plow ....
        In general, a man in life should be a MAN! In any other case, he is a rag ....
      3. dmitreach
        dmitreach 16 May 2013 23: 16 New
        -1
        men plow in the field,

        true kid? a rare kind of true boys guys does not respect. where did he start, sinful? laughing
    2. Rrv
      Rrv 16 May 2013 23: 04 New
      0
      Quote: harrimur
      men plow in the field, and you need to check your brain, hand over the tests, man, a clear overdose, here it’s punishing you, those man’s priests did, they’ve robbed the man of grace, check for toxicosis, read your comments MUZHIK
      1. Rrv
        Rrv 16 May 2013 23: 06 New
        0
        -----------------------
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 16 May 2013 23: 21 New
            0
            Quote: RRV
            ------------------------------

            but such a greeting among the Masons is a “goat," in general, what kind of hand is this?
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Rrv
                Rrv 16 May 2013 23: 34 New
                -2
                -----------------------
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Rrv
              Rrv 17 May 2013 01: 29 New
              +1
              Quote: alexandr00070

              what kind of hand is this?


              hand - cancer with the right hand of St. George the Victorious.

              didgoriru.worldpress.com/2010/08/25/satanizm-mp/
  • morpex
    morpex 17 May 2013 00: 10 New
    +3
    I may not be in the subject, but I will say. I will not argue with anyone. I will say through the lips of a man whom I respected during my lifetime and I will respect after his death. A man who sincerely believed and was a true Christian. "... Jesus was with me in difficult times, in the most terrible moments of life. Jesus Christ was undoubtedly a historical figure - he was a rebel, one of ours, anti-imperialists. He rebelled against the Roman Empire. For who could say that Jesus was capitalist? No. Judas was a capitalist, taking his pieces of silver! Christ was a revolutionary. He rebelled against the religious hierarchies. He rebelled against the economic power of the time. He preferred death to defend his humanistic ideals. And he longed for change. He was OUR Jesus Christ. " .
    The person who said this was called Hugo Chavez.
    You who do not believe in God - do not believe! But stop reproaching Vera and blame everything that is connected with it. She, FAITH, has suffered so much over her centuries-old history ...
    1. Rrv
      Rrv 17 May 2013 00: 36 New
      +2
      Valery, the conversation is not about faith, but about religion and the church as a bureaucratic organization.
      Faith is part of the subjective worldview or worldview of a person, it is impossible to deface it.
      But when someone begins to translate their faith into objective reality - faith turns into unprovable speculation, which the believer is trying to impose on others.

      You are probably not one of those and it's great drinks
  • Circle
    Circle 17 May 2013 07: 39 New
    0
    1. Know that in the last days perilous times will come.
    2. For people will be proud, silver-loving, proud, arrogant, vile, disobedient to parents,
    3.Ungrateful, wicked, unfriendly,
    4.difficult, slanderous, restless, cruel, not loving the good,
    5. traitors, arrogant, pompous, more voluptuous than god-loving,
    5. Having a form of godliness, but his strength is denied. Those go away.
    6. To these belong those who creep into houses and seduce women drowning in sins, driven by various lusts,
    7.always learners and never able to reach the knowledge of the truth.
    8. As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so do these resist the truth, people corrupted by the mind, ignorant in faith.
    Fully http://bibleonline.ru/bible/rus/62/03/