Military Review

Is Tajikistan a new Chinese province?

69
Is Tajikistan a new Chinese province?В “Arguments and Facts” from 13 of May of this year Victoria Nikitina fuels: “Since 6 in May, China has been deploying troops into the territory of Tajikistan. A part of the Gorno-Badashkhan Autonomous Region of this state is given to China for debts. In Dushanbe, they believe that it is uninhabitable. However, China refers to this territory differently, reasonably considering it important from a strategic point of view. ” The head of the Center for Political Studies of the Institute of Economics of the RAS, Boris Shmelev, who was not in the slightest doubt about the information about the deployment of Chinese troops to Tajikistan, was involved as an expert on frying facts and peeling arguments.


According to this authoritative specialist, this case in international relations is related to the “special”, even to the events-symbols. China strengthens its position in the world, turning economic power into political influence.

And a failed state like Tajikistan, in the person of the president, is forced to flirt with China: after all, it gives the money needed for the elections. But, the analyst wonders, what will lead the troops? How to be here in Russia?

The scientist advises the native government to accept the accomplished fact as a fact and take this very fact into account in the foreign policy strategy. How to take into account? Russia should play an important role in Central Asia and allocate significant funds to support its states. If she does not do this, then others will do it - the same China.

“As for the fact of the sale of land for debts, I will say this: each country is sovereign, and therefore it may look for forms of debt repayment convenient for it ...”


Well, what is there to think for a long time, let's add a joke from myself. The President of Tajikistan can sell Tajikistan to the Chinese - and the whole is short. Why does he need him? All Tajiks have been working in Russia for a long time. So the “repayment form” is very convenient.

Pavel Khrennikov ("MK") explains where the Tajik-Chinese "duck" came from.

At the beginning of May, a message appeared in the online edition of Forum.msk, which was reprinted by several Russian media. The sources of the “Forum” note were, of course, unnamed, and they supposedly originated from the “Tajik opposition”. The online publication reported that Chinese troops seized the eastern Pamirs in the Murghab district of Tajikistan and took control of the only highway in the region. The publication also informed that Tajikistan, over the years of independence, has transferred 1,5 thousands of square kilometers of disputed territories to China, the total area of ​​which is 28,5 thousand square meters. km It was also claimed that at the beginning of the year, Dushanbe was preparing to transfer part of the Pamir highlands, which is rich in deposits of precious stones, rare minerals and uranium, to repay foreign debt to Beijing.

The chief editor of the Forum, Anatoly Baranov, said:

“No one knows exactly what the volume of uranium deposits in Badakhshan is, but it is known that there is uranium there. In addition, there are many deposits of strategic raw materials, including tungsten and rare earth metals. It is true that for the life of Murghab, where even in summer there is snow, it is of little use. But this is an important strategic point - Murgab lies on the Pamir tract, so the PRC will control the only transport artery in the Pamirs. In general, Tajikistan is the buckle of a soldier’s belt with which Russia holds Central Asia, and the surrender of positions in Tajikistan is the surrender of the entire region, to Orenburg and Astrakhan. Although, when the Russian frontier troops left the Tajik-Afghan border by Putin’s decision, it was already clear that Russia was leaving the East, and someone would definitely come to its place. China has made an application, by the time of the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, I suppose, the United States and Great Britain will make their move. Iran and Pakistan are interested. It resembles the sharing of the junk of a deceased, to whom the boots, to whom the pea jacket ... "


The correspondent of "MK" notes that the information did not find any official confirmation from either the Tajik or the Chinese side, and experts suggested that the message might have been Moscow’s attempt to pressure Dushanbe.

(Those interested can read the note "Forum" in original).

Igor Rotar (Rosbalt) recalls that the horror stories about the Chinese offensive in Central Asia excite the Russian media sphere for several years, and now it has come to reports of the "occupation of the Pamirs by China." It came to the appearance of maps, allegedly issued in the Middle Kingdom, on which China owns the whole of Central Asia and a significant part of Russia.

Since in Dushanbe news they simply did not see about the “occupation”, the correspondent of “Rosbalt” had to communicate through the social network “Odnoklassniki” with the inhabitants of Murghab. In response, he received several replies that “no Chinese” were “noticed” there.

Later, on May 7, the "news" about the Chinese invasion clarified the Kyrgyz portal Vesti.kg. The head of the Kyrgyz Border Service, Tokon Mamytov, told reporters that reports of the introduction of Chinese troops into Tajikistan are no more than a “duck”. Mr Mamytov stated:

“I was only on the phone this morning with the First Deputy Chairman of the State Committee for National Security of the Republic of Tajikistan, the head of the Main Directorate of the Border Troops of Tajikistan Mirzo Sherali, and he said that their situation is stable. Moreover, to say that China occupied the Murghab district means, at best, not to understand the processes taking place in Central Asia. Both Dushanbe and Beijing are SCO members who have signed a series of documents on the observance of territorial integrity within this organization. Naturally, the information that a friendly state suddenly all of a sudden almost occupied the lands of its neighbor is erroneous. ”


A columnist for the Tajik media holding Asia Plus, Khairullo Mirsaidov, told Rosbalt that the rumor about Chinese expansion "has been launched by Russia, and it is inflating it itself." The aim of the Moscow "duck" is the return by Russia of "its border guards to our border."

By a strange coincidence, the correspondent notes that on May 8, the Russian president had just signed the laws on ratification of agreements on the conditions of stay of Russian military bases in Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

Returning to the “occupied” by China territories of Tajikistan, we need to add this.

Another 15 of April, i.e. more than three weeks before the introduction of Chinese expansion, on IA "REGNUM" A note appeared with reference to the Tajik resource Asia Plus mentioned above.

China received more Tajik territory than Dushanbe was transferred to it, said the chairman of the National Social Democratic Party of Tajikistan Rahmatillo Zoyirov. As reported on the Iranian radio site Sadoi Khuroson, Rakhmatillo Zoyirov does not exclude that in exchange for debts to China, Tajikistan may give up another part of the territory of the Murghab district. Chinese border guards penetrated 20 km deeper into the territory of Tajikistan than was previously negotiated. An Iranian radio station quotes Zoyirov:

“I personally traveled to the Murgab district and saw that Chinese border guards at certain sites established their borders 20 km deep into Tajik territory, although Tajikistan and China agreed to transfer only 1,1 thousand square kilometers of the territory of Murgab district”.


Mr. Zoyirov believes that the transfer of military forces and equipment to the Gorno-Badakhshan Autonomous Region under the pretext of conducting anti-terrorist exercises there is connected with the discussion of the transfer of part of the land of the Murghab region to China and the debts of Dushanbe.

However, official representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Tajikistan deny these rumors.

IA "REGNUM" reminds that Tajikistan approved the transfer of part of the territory of the People's Republic of China in January of 2011, when the parliament of the republic ratified the protocol on demarcation of the border with China, according to which China’s 1,1 thousand square meters. km of disputed territories. The official land transfer ceremony took place in the autumn of the same year. The area of ​​China grew by 1158 square kilometers, and the territory of Tajikistan decreased by 1%.

Eduard Limonov in the "preaching" from 14 May in his LJ wrote that what is happening in Gorno-Badakhshan is “hardly accessible to observers,” since there “there is not Pushkin Square”, but “mountains, and how dense!”

If Tajikistan transferred the territory in 1,5 to thousands of square kilometers to China to repay the government debt, then Limonov believes that Tajikistan will keep information about this secret, because the “distribution of pieces” of native land will have a bad effect on the morality of the Tajiks.

And what about the Chinese? Why are these silent?

And Limonov writes that it’s also unprofitable to spread such information: they “prefer to swallow territories silently”.

“And the fact that the Chinese are masters of moving the border deep into foreign territories is widely known. The fact that they got up on Amur near the island of Tarabarov when they changed the channel of Amur (flooded barges and brought sand, because the border goes along the fairway under the contract) to chop off pieces of our territory, it is widely known. Few people know that there is now the border with China is on the city beach of Khabarovsk. By golly, it is! ”


Lemons states:

“I reproach, and I will reproach compatriots with political levity and political dementia.

They briskly enter into hysterical disputes about things absolutely unimportant, especially Moscow ones, and ignore serious and terrible problems.

Giant China is breathing hotly and swallowing saliva, looking at the former Soviet Asia ... "


According to Limonov, China already blocks the rivers (for example, the Black Irtysh) and “steals four fifths of its water intake”. Now, having cut off the Pamirs, he will control the sources of the great rivers.

And now let's tear ourselves away from Comrade Limonov's prose and check how the Russian military feels in Tajikistan: do they notice the nearby Chinese hordes encroaching on Tajik uranium and other attractive territories, and where the borders are shifted. In essence, the military is the most reliable source of what is happening in the republic.

13 May correspondent ITAR-TASS Vitaly Khalevin He conveyed that the units and formations of the 201 of the Russian military base stationed in Tajikistan are serving in the normal mode.

This was reported to the correspondent by the spokesperson of the Central Military District, Yaroslav Roshchupkin. “The Russian 201 military base deployed in Tajikistan is operating normally,” said Comrade Roshchupkin.

Russian servicemen do not observe Chinese troops on the territory of Tajikistan.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
69 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. vadimus
    vadimus 15 May 2013 08: 14
    18
    Fuck Tajik Gaster to China to get money for work, but at the same time they will grab their gerych!
    1. fortunophile
      fortunophile 15 May 2013 09: 08
      15
      I would like to return once again to the systematic write-offs of credits, both to the CIS countries and the banana republics, among which there is even an "oil" Iraq. Why write off loans? Let the interest accumulate and, with the calculation of some time, you can always use it in a political game (push through some kind of decision, lease of land, bases, or something else).
      1. Patriot of Russia
        Patriot of Russia 15 May 2013 18: 58
        +1
        Quote: fortuneophile
        I would like to return once again to the systematic write-offs of credits, both to the CIS countries and the banana republics, among which there is even an "oil" Iraq. Why write off loans?

        with a comprehensively weak and not respected state, such as the Russian Federation, they do not even bargain about this, but simply send in three letters both Tajiks and Papuans, and anyone else. and your strong debts will triple take away
      2. zvereok
        zvereok 16 May 2013 19: 46
        0
        You need to write off a loan in order to issue a new one, is it really not clear?
    2. opkozak
      opkozak 15 May 2013 14: 30
      +8
      To the question of what Dushanbe will pay with Beijing, there is no answer yet, although, as mentioned above, what exactly are the Tajik territories. Indeed, despite the inaccessibility of those parts of the Pamirs that China can claim, these areas are full of minerals: uranium, gold, bauxite, asbestos, rock crystal and much more. In order to settle accounts with the Chinese, Rakhmon (and the fact that the current president will win the upcoming elections, if anyone has doubts, then the most minimal ones) doesn’t have to change the republic’s border again - you can just rent part of the Pamir, as was done with farmland. And so gradually cut the lands of the republic until the Chinese tenants stumble into the border with Uzbekistan. Another thing is that such a lease is likely to be unlimited. In world practice, this is usually called "colonization".
      1. Shawnee
        Shawnee 15 May 2013 14: 47
        +8
        I remembered the story. About 25 years ago, returning home from the station, he sat down next to a swarthy man of unknown nationality. He immediately asked me: "You are local." - Yes, why. - Do you have girls in town? Show me where - let's go together - I'll pay for everything. And he smiled into a mouth full of gold teeth.
        I ask - where are you from - From Dushanbe.
        He answered him that I don’t know where to look for girls, but focused on the Intourist.
        - Do you have an Intourist? We also never had Soviet power? So let's go together, help the girls find.
        I refused and drove on.
        The phrase "We never had Soviet Power" stuck in my mind. And honestly, when the Union collapsed, I was first of all glad that there would be no need to feed such "advanced" representatives of the Pamirs.
        But it was not there. The war began in Tajikistan, refugees appeared in the city (a joke - on Easter they went to cemeteries and ate painted eggs that people brought to the graves of the dead). Wild people.
      2. sergaivenski
        sergaivenski 15 May 2013 21: 08
        +1
        I remember Easter last year. I went to church, as I am baptized into Orthodox
        Noah church. At the entrance to the temple, the Tajiks stood and begged for alms. I answered them: "Dzhabrail
        "Dzhabrail is the name of the local pakhanka who takes the proceeds from beggars. All this is known
        yut. And everyone knows that Tajiks are selling drugs and weapons. That’s why I personally
        I don’t give anything. A very long time ago they appeared in our city. They offered them land, promised not
        load taxes, but they refused. It’s better to beg, to dope with drugs !!! And they
        children are sitting on the pavement, asking for money from passers-by. But I do not mind them.
      3. zvereok
        zvereok 16 May 2013 19: 50
        +1
        Rent Alaska type. At 99 years, and after 99 years no one will remember. And if they remember, then whoever gives should not give, because he will forget.
    3. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 15 May 2013 17: 37
      -1
      Well, let's read the comments of the women.
  2. Apollo
    Apollo 15 May 2013 08: 17
    +9
    Definitely with China, one should keep an eye out. There is a good saying that appetite comes with eating. He has chopped off a piece of land from Russia, the so-called controversial border plots of land, now here is Tajikistan. If the appetite jumps to its fullest, then what ?! winked It would not hurt to think, this is my unequivocal opinion.
    1. bask
      bask 15 May 2013 10: 17
      +7
      Quote: Apollon
      Definitely with China, the ear must be kept sharp

      That's right!

      THEIR DARKNESS !!!
      1. Prishtina
        Prishtina 15 May 2013 11: 21
        +8
        [quote = Apollon] Definitely with China, the ear must be kept sharp [/ quote]
        That's right!

        THEIR DARKNESS !!! [/ quote]
    2. sergaivenski
      sergaivenski 15 May 2013 21: 12
      +1
      I agree with you. These guys just do nothing. They smile, bow and what’s
      you won’t guess at all !!!
  3. pinecone
    pinecone 15 May 2013 08: 24
    +7
    To the author of the article. Russian servicemen cannot "observe the Chinese troops" (in fact, they are watching not the troops, but behind the troops) on the territory of Tajikistan, since they are located in the southern part of the republic, in an area adjacent not to the Chinese, but to the Afghan border.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 15 May 2013 09: 03
      +1
      Maybe from Nurek they "saw" that everything is fine)))
  4. maratenok
    maratenok 15 May 2013 08: 30
    +6
    the Chinese will not swear or seize the land they just populate them with the Chinese
  5. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 15 May 2013 08: 58
    +4
    Gorny Badakhshan is an almost lifeless region with rare islets of the local population. Badakhshanians are positioning themselves to the central government, the last unrest was last summer. Rakhmon has an eye, but one must keep an eye on them. The fact that foreign emissaries climb there is likely. But then, that China is like that, by the invasion of troops, something is chopped off there. This is ridiculous. Cooperation in the SCO and the conflict with the Russian Federation are immediately "chopped off". They do not need it. But China is willing to invest.
    1. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 15 May 2013 09: 27
      +1
      .... well, about the lifeless one, then you go overboard, there life is in full swing, well, nothing on the head .....
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 15 May 2013 11: 45
        0
        Quote: Thunderbolt
        with rare islets of the local population

        It’s full of mountain wastelands, and where they live, there is a diversity of life, poverty and smugglers from Afghanistan on inflatable car cameras :)
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. sergei tulun
          sergei tulun 16 May 2013 04: 55
          +1
          .... it was always interesting where they got so many car cameras from ...
  6. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 15 May 2013 09: 11
    11
    China demonstrates to us how the USSR needed to develop, and with our potential and resources we would now be ahead of the rest, note that no one scolds China for undemocracy and other nonsense of a liberal world order, for some reason all critics have to deal with China, language sorry sticks to the fifth point, and all the liberals are kept in China where they should, namely in a madhouse, where they give a caring medical staff explain their point of view and then get a dose of sedative and fly away to their liberal paradise. Well, about the territories as it always has been, the empires infected by liberalism are falling apart and the parts that have fallen off are absorbed by adequate states, the Russian Empire, the USSR from earlier examples, the Roman Empire do not have to go far for examples. If you look for historical parallels for the current situation, then China now has some reservations to Germany since the beginning of the 20th century, i.e. a strong expansionist state with a solid ideology and adequate leadership, a developed industry and booming science. And Russia, alas, something like Austria-Hungary is in constant frivolous confrontation with Germany. A weak inadequate leadership, with a half-dead economy, a bunch of internal problems with the army kept on an honest a word and a lot of ambition. And add ethnic problems to this. In short, thanks to comrade Gorbachev for our happy childhood. In general, if everything remains as it is, then Russia will shrink to the size of modern Austria.
    1. cyclist
      cyclist 15 May 2013 09: 20
      +4
      I agree, well, this is confirmed by either China in Tajikistan or the Arctic, in the general sense, has its own interests in the world and does not hide it
    2. zvereok
      zvereok 16 May 2013 19: 55
      +2
      The USSR could not follow the path of China. The wrong population, the wrong education. Pensions in the end are there. Only the path that Yeltsin chose after the collapse of the USSR is the worst possible.
  7. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 09: 19
    0
    how tired of these articles, a la "China with powerful tank wedges goes straight through the taiga to the Urals"
    1. cyclist
      cyclist 15 May 2013 09: 23
      +6
      goes to the Urals or does not go out - another question, but the fact that your cunning narrow eye pops everywhere
    2. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 15 May 2013 09: 30
      +4
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      how tired of these articles, a la "China with powerful tank wedges
      And not only articles ... I play a comp game now, where the PLA invades Tajikistan. In principle, an ordinary shooter, it is somewhat difficult for the Chinese to crawl out from under each bush in huge quantities. laughing
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 11: 35
        +1
        But who is fighting against the Chinese?
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 15 May 2013 17: 49
          0
          Valorous American marines. They were transferred from Afghanistan. But this is not the most difficult case. It was necessary to take Tehran as Ji-Ai :)
  8. sergei tulun
    sergei tulun 15 May 2013 09: 25
    0
    .... haha ​​... repeat and Afghan relatives of residents of Khorog, Ishkashim .... will not be against belay
    1. cyclist
      cyclist 15 May 2013 09: 27
      0
      Yes, they have business in Afghanistan too
      1. sergei tulun
        sergei tulun 15 May 2013 09: 36
        +1
        ... and what, not all the same, with wooden plows on cows the sea buckthorn is covered ... wink
  9. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 15 May 2013 09: 47
    +5
    I didn’t enter something, but why the border along the fairway? The channels tend to change, but is it weak to tie the border to some geodesic point? Registration in the cadastral chamber of the land will drink the whole blood, if any centimeters do not fit. And here hectares were presented to the yellow-faced brothers by reason! The principle of defining state borders needs to be changed, otherwise we’ll continue the whole Mother Racea.
    1. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 15 May 2013 09: 55
      +1
      .... so it is written in the Constitution of the ....
      1. ultra
        ultra 15 May 2013 15: 15
        +1
        Quote: sergei tulun
        ..so in the charter of PV it is written ....

        I don’t know how it is now, in Soviet times there was an instruction on guarding the border, but it does not regulate its passage on the ground, for this there is a law on the state border.
        1. sergei tulun
          sergei tulun 16 May 2013 04: 38
          0
          ... so, on the basis of the GG law, the border passes along the fairway, even if the alleged violator is standing with one foot in the water and the other on the adjacent shore - this is not a violation ....
  10. sergei tulun
    sergei tulun 15 May 2013 10: 01
    0
    ... and so, as it was rewritten .... The East is a delicate matter, two priorities - war and a bazaar, it’s better to have more and more, and even more, and you can without bread fellow
  11. Burbur
    Burbur 15 May 2013 10: 01
    +1
    Well, how much can these ducks exaggerate.
    1. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 15 May 2013 10: 05
      +4
      ....and what laughing , submit an article in Zemin Zhebau .... Beijing Migration Service warily spoke about the presence of migrant workers from Dushanbe fellow
  12. AKOL
    AKOL 15 May 2013 10: 03
    +1
    Quote: Thunderbolt
    But the fact that China like this, by the invasion of troops, chop off something there. It's funny.


    I completely agree, in my understanding "In" Arguments and Facts "dated May 13 of this year, Victoria Nikitina" just launched another duck. It may be true that I missed something in connection with the holidays, but the very fact of such agreements, or intentions about agreements, cannot be hidden from the media, and in the media it is quiet.
  13. Dzhigurda
    Dzhigurda 15 May 2013 10: 33
    +2
    If the Chinese take away ALL Tajiks from the Russian Federation and heroin flows, even if they take away all of Central Asia
  14. Yeraz
    Yeraz 15 May 2013 10: 56
    +4
    Many here think at the level of the layman, they say take away the Tajiks, although the Russians mostly have conflicts with the Caucasians, the migrants go to the crowds here mostly. It might be cool for some that the Tajiks were taken away, but the key positions in the region, therefore this is an instant weakening of Russia's positions in Middle Asia
    But China really invades there, the Tajiks told the Chinese there a lot of things being built, and the workers of these companies are Chinese convicts, so to speak, in a voluntary-forced manner. And China will increasingly promote its interests and they will a priori be contrary to the interests of the Russian Federation in this region.
    1. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 15 May 2013 11: 01
      +1
      .... but who needs them, except Mother Russia .... from the 91st year of the gundel that Tajikistan will become the new Afghan province, today China, tomorrow someone else ....
    2. Dzhigurda
      Dzhigurda 15 May 2013 11: 39
      -7
      Central Asians and Kalkazians are equally disgusting.
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz 15 May 2013 11: 50
        0
        Quote: Dzhigurda
        Central Asians and Kalkazians are equally disgusting.

        Looking at your avatar, you can see that beauty and mind do not shine !!
        Admin where are we looking ????
    3. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 16 May 2013 13: 38
      0
      .... Russia's position in the RT was finally lost in 2005, when our border troops were withdrawn from there ....
  15. sergei tulun
    sergei tulun 15 May 2013 11: 07
    +8
    ... it's funny another thing that seems to be on a serious site, "MILITARY REVIEW", tell such anecdotes ... although, what kind of army is now, such a review .... sad, damn it ....
  16. Prishtina
    Prishtina 15 May 2013 11: 24
    -1
    Tajikistan, I would give China without looking and still pay what they would take ... Here you can’t Kyrgyzstan ... Integration with Kazakhstan must continue .. And Tojikiston winked in their area there is only one hemorrhoid, and the border with Afghanistan will again have to be kept ours if something happens ... Let the Chinese suffer.
    1. Dzhigurda
      Dzhigurda 15 May 2013 11: 40
      -4
      all of central asia
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 11: 48
        -3
        Where are you from?
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 11: 44
      +4
      "What are you, your king's muzzle, scattering state lands?"

      Before you write you can think about if there is anything
    3. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 16 May 2013 13: 28
      0
      .... and then demand money to be taken back wink .... normal business ...
  17. Roll
    Roll 15 May 2013 11: 38
    +5
    am Before 2020, China will not occupy anything, and immediately after it will take Kazakhstan and Mongolia and all of our Asia. It will not touch us anyway. The dragon, like a bear sleeping in a den, sucks its paw, but when it begins to poke its horn, crawls out of its lair and tears everyone to shreds. It will also reorganize its economy with China, rebuild the economy to domestic demand, intervene with the amers, block it and create an anti-Chinese coalition , then, having spat on all the agreements, he will begin to weigh all the cuffs and he did not care about the agreements and public opinion.
  18. Skuto
    Skuto 15 May 2013 11: 39
    +3
    The USSR was raising a powerful military-industrial complex and an army (only things were not very good with the economy), while China focused on flirting with capitalism and placing their production facilities at home. In addition, in China, a very solid stock of rare earth elements. That is why the whole world considers them.

    Regarding the military power of the PLA, it is greatly exaggerated: the percentage of modern technology is low (and even copies of ours or foreign), the military-industrial complex cannot create many types of equipment that would satisfy the degree of reliability (there will be a mess, breakdowns will go one after another), nepotism flourishes in the army, the top officers and the army are like two different entities (therefore the question of obeying orders when it becomes hot is open) logistics is about nothing.
    In addition, a significant part of the population and industry are located around a whole network of dams, the launch of precision weapons is enough and the People's Republic of China makes a decisive step 200 years ago.
    1. cyclist
      cyclist 15 May 2013 13: 41
      +2
      Quote: Skuto
      In addition, a significant part of the population and industry are located around a whole network of dams, the launch of precision weapons is enough and the People's Republic of China makes a decisive step 200 years ago.

      yeah, and get back with a dozen ICBMs, you should never underestimate a likely enemy
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 14: 03
        0
        Quote: cyclist
        yeah and get back with a dozen ICBMs

        in the event of a real war with China, this cannot be avoided, no matter how cynical it sounds, another question is that for China, such an attack would be fatal based on their numbers, it would not even be a humanitarian disaster, but a local armahide.
        1. fartfraer
          fartfraer 15 May 2013 17: 43
          +2
          Considering that the majority of our population lives in cities, the armahideist will be completely reciprocal.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 18: 20
            -1
            this is unlikely, the densities are different, I'm not talking about what will be good for us, but I think that we are getting around, China will simply disappear
            1. fartfraer
              fartfraer 15 May 2013 21: 06
              +2
              Vladimir, maybe it’s a mystery for you, but missiles have long been striking not for areas, but for specific goals. In order to dislodge 70% of the population of Siberia it will be necessary to destroy cities 6-7. Destroying Moscow will deprive Russia of 10% of the population. A dozen missiles will be enough in the Far East .plus all production is concentrated not in the taiga under mass networks, but for the same potential purposes as the majority of the population.
              calculate for yourself how many people will be destroyed when China uses fifty missiles in our largest cities. Then look at the census data and see that the damage to the Russian Federation from such a war will be irreparable.
              therefore, the Armageddian will be mutual, as in a possible war with the United States. There will be no winners in such wars
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 22: 07
                0
                Vladimir, maybe it’s a mystery for you, but missiles have long fallen off-squares

                Apparently for you there is a great secret that there is an air nuclear explosion, as well as what is a nuclear weapons

                power 1Mt
                Zone of total destruction radius of 3,65 km
                Zone of severe and medium destruction (continuous fires) 7,5 km radius
                Zone of weak destruction (individual fires) radius of 14 km

                in addition, we are not talking about the US-Russia war
                1. sergei tulun
                  sergei tulun 16 May 2013 04: 59
                  +2
                  ... rockets wink , for a long time not relevant, the Chinese, and without them, have been poisoning us for all sorts of things from socks to products for 20 years .... go to the store .... laughing
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 16 May 2013 11: 58
                    0
                    so don't eat their foods
                    1. sergei tulun
                      sergei tulun 16 May 2013 13: 34
                      0
                      ... unless it’s about whether there is or not .... in the 92nd, in Transbaikalia, the Chinese were harvesting wood in the border strip when they moved out, so they even removed the sod ....
                2. fartfraer
                  fartfraer 16 May 2013 11: 47
                  0
                  I agree, not about the war with the states. The only question is whether China has nuclear weapons)) as I understood from the criticality for the Russian Federation to destroy a couple of dozens of the largest cities, do you have any questions?
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 16 May 2013 11: 55
                    -1
                    1. to destroy a couple of dozen cities need a massive missile attack, otherwise do not break through the missile defense system
                    2. a similar attack means global war
                    3. There is no sense for China in this, more so as if they start a war for the sake of territories
                    4. a similar attack on the Russian Federation means a guaranteed death of the attacker
                    5. in the light of such a war, again, no matter how cynical it sounds, a couple of dozen cities will not be critical
                    6. with the equal defeat of 20 cities there are 20 there, the consequences due to mass epidemics and after the attack for China will be significantly more significant
                    1. fartfraer
                      fartfraer 16 May 2013 17: 02
                      +1
                      Vasily, it was you who started talking about nuclear weapons, I just pointed out to you the fatal consequences for both sides. Now tell me an "authoritative expert" what kind of missile defense is Novosibirsk or Vladivostok protected? Only Moscow is somehow covered (well, it used to be at least)
                      "such an attack on the Russian Federation means the assured death of the attacker" - a similar attack on any nuclear power means the death of the warring parties and some neighbors, and possibly of all mankind.
                      "with an equal defeat of 20 cities, there are 20 there, the consequences due to massive epidemics and after the attack for China will be much more significant" - for example, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Tula, Chelyabinsk, Izhevsk, Omsk, N. Tagil, Novosibirsk, Tomsk, Omsk were destroyed , Krasnoyars
                      k, Kemerovo, Chita, Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, Kazan. these are not twenty cities yet, I note, but this is already a fairly large part of the population of the Russian Federation, industrial enterprises and the defense industry. largest cities, a much larger percentage loss of total population than the 20 largest cities in China.
                      if you already supported koment about the use of MBR, then do not blame me for the fact that I raised this topic.
    2. old man54
      old man54 17 May 2013 01: 10
      +1
      Very logical analysis! I support!
  19. duha
    duha 15 May 2013 11: 40
    -1
    "China with powerful tank wedges goes straight through the taiga to the Urals"
    Tired of just those who believe that China will, if any, attack from the east through the taiga.
    This path is most likely if China decides to attack - "China with powerful tank wedges on the straight through Central Asia and Kazakhstan goes to the Urals"
    In this sense, Tajikistan is only a springboard for further expansion. But if the Chinese aim at Kazakhstan, where to Moscow there is just as much Hitler from Poland, then it’s worth considering.
  20. duha
    duha 15 May 2013 11: 41
    0
    "China with powerful tank wedges goes straight through the taiga to the Urals"
    Tired of just those who believe that China will, if any, attack from the east through the taiga.
    This path is most likely if China decides to attack - "China with powerful tank wedges on the straight through Central Asia and Kazakhstan goes to the Urals"
    In this sense, Tajikistan is only a springboard for further expansion. But if the Chinese aim at Kazakhstan, where to Moscow there is just as much Hitler from Poland, then it’s worth considering.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 11: 50
      0
      Quote: duha
      China with powerful tank wedges to straight lines through Central Asia and Kazakhstan goes to the Urals

      Quote: duha
      But if the Chinese are aiming for Kazakhstan, where to Moscow how much is Hitler from Poland, then it’s worth considering.

      what do you think for what purpose was developed nuclear weapons? !!!
      1. 120352
        120352 15 May 2013 12: 19
        +3
        Powerful tank wedges in the mountains? It is interesting to see ...
        And it’s never too early to think.
        1. sergei tulun
          sergei tulun 16 May 2013 06: 33
          +1
          ... yeah, even a turbo diesel refuses to work there, but in Murgab, it was in the early 90s, he got on board (MI-8), he couldn’t take off, they took it apart and lowered it ... fellow
    2. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 16 May 2013 04: 32
      0
      .... why attack, they are already everywhere in Siberia .... and not only here ....
  21. 120352
    120352 15 May 2013 12: 19
    +3
    Tajiks don't care who feeds them.
    1. albert
      albert 15 May 2013 21: 29
      +2
      Quote: 120352
      Adzhik doesn’t care who feeds them.

      It is unlikely that the Chinese are not Russian and will not be particularly almond with the Tajiks.
    2. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 16 May 2013 14: 00
      +1
      ... to the Pamirs, not Tajiks (they don’t consider them Tajiks, because the army of Alexander the Great passed by the Pamirs long ago and now in the Pamirs one can meet a native with blue eyes or blond hair, Rakhmonov doesn’t give a damn about GBAO) so, here PAMIRAMS, far from all the same .... they are very respectful to both Russia and the Russians ...
      1. old man54
        old man54 17 May 2013 01: 21
        0
        interesting information, did not know!
        1. sergei tulun
          sergei tulun 17 May 2013 04: 15
          0
          ... I just was there, as part of the PV of the Russian Federation in the Republic of Tatarstan, although in the years 94-95, but few have changed ... There was one ensign in our detachment, from the local Pamiri people, with a very higher historical education, a very interesting person and very decent, it was interesting to talk with him, he told us a lot, he drove to the ruins of fortresses, very interesting, the Pamir is a beautiful and interesting place ....
  22. Humpty
    Humpty 15 May 2013 12: 50
    +1
    The transfer of the Western-Soviet part of Badakhshan to China is quite possible. China has launched large-scale construction in its part of Badakhshan. I already wrote about this a couple of times in the comments. They are obviously starting something there besides the development of deposits, which is actively going on and the construction of a cascade of hydroelectric power stations on Gezdarya.
    In the photo, Lake Bulunkol five years ago. Now it is a reservoir at the hydroelectric power station.
    1. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 16 May 2013 04: 27
      0
      .... I wonder how this hydroelectric station works, just like Khorogskaya ????
  23. kind
    kind 15 May 2013 13: 31
    +2
    Not knowing the whole truth, we can only say that there is no smoke without fire.
  24. tomaz99
    tomaz99 15 May 2013 14: 55
    +3
    quote a cyclist .. one should never underestimate a potential opponent

    it already passed .. we know.
  25. Megatron
    Megatron 15 May 2013 16: 45
    +3
    Honestly tired of these idle conversations and whining about how we need to support these former Central Asian republics with money, raw materials, and equipment.

    I don’t see any sense at all, there’s no sense in them, with all sorts of cunning Elbasy, Turkmenbashi, etc., etc.
    All the same, we feed them, but to no avail.

    Let all the guest workers go to China to earn money, and we will send all the money saved from the support of their countries to our own social needs and to strengthen the borders.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 15 May 2013 16: 53
      0
      extremely unreasonable and not productive
      just as you put it you need to feed and invest wisely
  26. Megatron
    Megatron 15 May 2013 21: 45
    0
    What is not reasonable?
  27. mushtuc
    mushtuc 15 May 2013 21: 48
    0
    Much ado about nothing.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. sergei tulun
      sergei tulun 16 May 2013 04: 01
      0
      .... I agree, show me that idiot who is planning to build something in Murghab ....
  28. sergei tulun
    sergei tulun 16 May 2013 06: 00
    +1
    ... on the one hand, a lot of natural sources, fortresses from the time of Alexander the Great (to develop a tourist business), and the richest deposits of natural resources, and on the other hand, a seismically unstable zone, a lunar landscape, altitudes from 3000 m and above, and the most a nice stoned bearded guy, whom for several centuries no one can put in the frame ....