Military Review

Absurd on wheels

69
The requirement to participate in the state defense order at their own expense is not feasible


The weekly MIC weekly in issue 14, 15, 16 published materials indicating the threat of losing domestic production of special wheeled chassis and wheel tractors (SKShT) for the Russian Defense Ministry. In October, the Ministry of Defense closed 2008, the Voshchina-2 ROC was closed, and the Bryansk Automobile Plant (BAZ) continued to work on improving the SKSHT at its own expense. Successful completion of the said OCD would be for BAZ the last chance for rebirth, but this did not happen.

The state tests of the chassis and tractor units created under the Voshchina-1 R & D project have not yet begun, while the head developers of the weapons and military vehicle command for BAZ have set up requirements for the finalization of the chassis and tractor units for specific models of the complexes. Work on expanding the use of BAZ chassis and tractors was carried out in parallel with the development of the Voshchina-1 ROC. And almost all the “heads” required SKSHs with a carrying capacity of at least 20 tons, and in the TTZ on the ROC Voshchina-1, the carrying capacity was set to no more than 18. Nevertheless, the plant has decided to increase its capacity.

ROC "Wax-2"

For a number of promising complexes and systems, wider SKSHs were required - at least three meters (instead of the 1 meter width, implemented in the Voshchina-2,75 SKShT). The requirement for overall width is due to the peculiarities of mounting and ensuring the lateral stability of the placed weapons and military equipment, especially if the center of mass of the final product is high.

It was also necessary to develop a number of systems and nodes of the SKShT themselves. The latter was not done due to the underfunding of the ROC “Voshchina-1”, in particular, the hydromechanical transmission (GMF).

At BAZ we thought about the development of a new family of chassis and tractor units, and at the turn of the century, the plant first talked about a new job called “Voshchina-2”. Among the problems was the lack of modern tires with a carrying capacity of six tons. Also considered the development of hydropneumatic suspension. But even then it became clear that without state support many issues could not be solved, especially since in this case it was about creating a family of chassis and tractors only for the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation.

Due to the fact that the work of subcontractors on the development of automotive components (tires, GMF) differed significantly in terms of time, BAZ proposed to conduct the Voshchina-2 design and development work in two stages. On the first, implement the requirements for increasing the overall width and carrying capacity, install the horsepower 500 engine and work out the design of the transmission and suspension units. At the second stage, install an 600 – 650 engine with horsepower, an automatic transmission or transmission module, an on-board information management system (BIUS), and other units and complexes. 24 May 2005, Chief of Armaments of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation - Deputy Defense Minister General of the Army Alexei Moskovsky approved the decision No. Р-19-2005, in which there was a mention of the ROC "Voshchina-2" within GWV-2015.

As a result, the customer refused the first stage, which was proposed by the plant, and immediately decided to proceed to the second. The state contract was concluded only in May 2007.

Unexpected strike

Work on the new SKSHT family was already in full swing, but, as in the case with the design and development project Voshchina-1, problems arose again with funding. The author has no explanation for what reasons the plant received less than a quarter of the amount specified in the state contract 80 million rubles. Of the related R & D, it was possible to fully implement only one related to the control system.

Absurd on wheels

The personnel changes in the leadership of GABTU had a negative impact on the development of all domestic military vehicles (BAT). In October 2008, the head of the GABTU, Lieutenant General Nikolai Ershov, by his decision, stopped all funding for the Voshchina-2 design and development work and all related work. Without work on tires and GMP, the implementation of the main OCD lost its meaning. In addition, the customer demanded to return the balance of untapped funds. The design and development work “Voshchina-2” was suspended during the development phase of the design documentation (a technical project was developed).

Problems arose in connection with the apparent intention of the leadership of GABTU to concentrate all the development and production of BAT on one plant. Thus, in the 2008 year, the Defense Ministry refused to procure the BAZ-6403 truck tractor developed at BAZ on its own initiative and adopted in the same year to supply the Russian Armed Forces, but KAMAZ-65225 truck tractor did not pass the state tests and was not accepted for supply The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. In the process of testing revealed comments.

17 December 2008 of the year at an international conference held by ASM-Holding, the acting head of the 21 th Research Institute of the Russian Defense Ministry, Colonel Tarasov, reported that KAMAZ promised to make its own tractors and heavy duty chassis (from 25 tons and above) to replace SKShT from MWTP. Later, the author became aware that 120 million rubles had already been allocated to KAMAZ for work on this topic (R & D “Platform”).

The acting chief of 21, the Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, motivated the financing of Voshchina-2 design and development projects by the development of dual-use equipment and, therefore, such equipment should not be created at the expense of state funds. And the customer will buy competitive equipment at its discretion. This answer was given in front of a large audience. Many are still wondering: why in general the topic of SKShT sounded publicly in December of 2008? Probably, there was already no possibility to conceal the facts, especially as a month earlier, on November 19 of 2008, a meeting was held at the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation at which representatives of the industry (and BAZ including) expressed aloud everything they thought about stopping R & D. Unfortunately, the public was not informed about that meeting.

Statements that the customer would buy competitive equipment at his own discretion became fashionable after the appointment in April 2007 of the position of chief of armaments — Deputy Defense Minister Nikolai Makarov, later — Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation — First Deputy Minister of Defense. Although any specialist associated with IWT is clear: no serious work can be carried out without government funding.

The Voshchina-2 R & D project was initiated not at all because the new chassis and tractors are urgently needed by enterprises in the economic sector. If the military needs SKSHT, which can move on complete off-road with the highest possible average speed (the current requirements - at least 40 – 45 kilometers per hour), while ensuring the safety of the payload and protection from various means of reconnaissance and destruction, etc. while fulfilling many other tactical and technical requirements, civilian customers do not need much of this.

Even OJSC KAMAZ, possessing substantially large resources, could not (or did not want) to carry out work on military-made SKSH at its own expense with the subsequent supply of finished equipment to the customer. Those involved were already aware of the fact that KAMAZ for OCR would request once in 20, or even more than was allocated for the Platform research and development project. And about how much extra money is yet to be spent on the organization of mass production, the initiates were afraid to even speak in the presence of media representatives. Perhaps it was the search for funds for the work of KAMAZ that became the true reason for the collapse of both the VRC “Voshchina-2” and many other works.

So, at the end of 2008, BAZ again and for the umpteenth time found itself in a difficult position. Successful conducting of the ROC “Voshchina-2” would be for BAZ the last chance for the revival and occupation of a worthy place among the enterprises of the military-industrial complex.

The most typical example of incompetence is the fate of the Pantsir-S ZRPK. In August 2008 of the year in the process of state tests, the modules of the complex with the KAMAZ-6560 chassis were re-mounted on the BAZ-6909-019 chassis. In September-October, firing from a combat vehicle (BM) mounted on the BAZ-6909-019 chassis was successfully completed. According to all the agreed documents, it was planned to supply the Pantsir-С1 complex for export to the Middle East on the KAMAZ-6560 chassis, and to the Russian Armed Forces - the Pantsir-S complex on the BAZ-6909 chassis. According to experts who participated in the re-assembly of the BM equipment of the complex and carrying out road tests and firing on the Kapustin Yar and Ashuluk testing grounds, the BM on the BAZ-6909-019 chassis has higher speeds, dynamics, maneuverability and smoothness. Why the Pantsir-S did not go to the series on the chassis BAZ-6909-019, it is not so difficult to guess.

Unclaimed "Wax-1,5"

Fortunately, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation did not dare to close a number of works on advanced air defense systems and complexes. The head developers who were guided by domestic equipment, needed wide chassis and tractors, and they had to be created. At BAZ, they involuntarily recalled the initial plans and the designers, on their own initiative, set about implementing the first stage of development of the wide SKShTs, which for convenience called “Voshchina-1,5” (this code was not officially assigned to the family and not used in documents). In the summer of 2009, the BAZ-6403.01 tractor was already being developed.

According to the results of work with potential customers, the principal need to increase the overall width of the SKSHT was revealed in order to ensure the placement, including by re-installing IWT from the chassis and MZKT tractors on the BAZ, of various means of the Triumphator-M ZRS.

10 June 2011 of the year BAZ-6403.01 was shown to the Minister of Defense, military specialists, industry representatives and the press in Bronnitsy near Moscow. Unfortunately, few have paid attention to the novelty that BAZ represented. Judging by the further development of events, that memorable demonstration did not bring much useful - the former Minister of Defense hardly understood anything at all from what he saw and heard, since BAZ was forced to conduct type tests of a new tractor, including at NIITS AT 3 Central Scientific Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, at its own expense. According to the information available to the author, in the future this tractor remained unclaimed for use as part of weapons and military equipment or for towing heavy armored vehicles, although it was repeatedly shown to various military leaders and officials, including Russian President Dmitry Medvedev (in September 2011 during the exercises in Chebarkul, it was BAZ-6403.01 that pulled stuck cross-country vehicles of domestic production from the mud).

As part of further work on the “Voshchin-1”, the development and production of other models of upgraded SKShTs with increased overall width can be carried out and for use as part of IWT systems and complexes. Steps are being taken to interest the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation with promising technology. So, 1 February 2013 of the year on the website of the military department appeared information about the visit of the Defense Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu to the main command of the Army. The Minister was shown mockups of promising weapons and military equipment for the military equipment. In one of the photos in the foreground, you could see the BAZ chassis, and this is a wide Voshchina-1,5. This chassis is proposed to be used for the installation of various weapons and military equipment, including for the SPU OTRK "Iskander" and promising OTRK.

Ghostly Perspectives

To an uninitiated reader, it will seem that everything at BAZ is good: the plant supplies within the framework of the state defense order and its increase is expected in the coming years. At present, the main indicators of the technical level and TTX of the chassis and tractors of the Voshchina-1 family meet modern and promising (up to 2020 of the year) requirements and provide installation, transportation and combat use of serial and modernized VVT complexes, complete replacement of base chassis of the KrAZ type ( produced in Ukraine), as well as SKShT of the type MAZ-543, MZKT-7930 (manufactured by the Republic of Belarus) both during the overhaul and during the serial production of weapons and military equipment samples.

But this is today's day. After all, even the most sophisticated equipment has limits for its modernization and at the BAZ it is necessary to create a new family of SKShT for military purposes.

The suspension of the ROC “Voshchina-2” was performed on the basis of the decision of the general customer. The very wording “suspension of work” does not exclude their renewal. Separate solutions developed within the framework of the development work "Voshchina-2" have already been implemented or are being implemented in the structure of SKShT. The engineering potential of the enterprise, which is still preserved, is ready for the implementation of most of the R & D projects and R & D projects known at the BAZ; however, time is running out, and these plans are not practical.

The question is very acute. There is a lot of talk about the fact that industrial enterprises should initiate development, but such developments at BAZ already exist, including in metal (for example, in May 2011, the prototype BAZ-69096-013 chassis with 10X10.1 wheel formula was made). However, it has repeatedly been confronted at the BAZ with the fact that, in the future, promising samples remain unclaimed by the Russian Defense Ministry and the head developers, with whom the TTZ is pre-agreed. If the plant invests heavily in the development of a new military family, will it be in demand by the Russian Defense Ministry? Especially in the current conditions, when other enterprises are already developing promising families of multipurpose vehicles and SKShT, which in their performance characteristics (load capacity, increased overall width, security, independent suspension) partially correspond to the BAZhSHT? The Bryansk Automobile Plant is not afraid of competition, but, as previous experience has shown, the best performance characteristics of equipment models do not always result: in 2008 – 2012, decisions were more often made on the basis of other considerations. Therefore, either the continuation of the Voshchina-2 OCR with the correction of the TTZ, or the opening of a new OCD, within the framework of which it is necessary to create a certain scientific and technical reserve for the future, can be the most optimal. But in the current situation, the owner of the plant does not plan to conduct work without state financing.

Today at BAZ, they are increasingly thinking: will the state need the plant in its current capacity in three years? In five years? According to the information available to the author, the owner of the plant is already considering even such a fantastic option as the complete re-profiling of production, the termination of the release of military equipment after the fulfillment of all contracts concluded in the framework of the state defense order.
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  1. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 15 May 2013 15: 39
    +4
    Russia has ruined its enterprises, now it has set the task of ditching the Byelorussian as well, then we will again argue whether to buy equipment from the French, Italians, or most likely from China.
    1. fortunophile
      fortunophile 15 May 2013 15: 43
      +1
      Quote: vladsolo56
      Russia has ruined its enterprises, now it has set the task of ditching the Byelorussian as well, then we will again argue whether to buy equipment from the French, Italians, or most likely from China.

      KAMAZ works fine and the fact that "Pantsir" is put on KAMAZ trucks is, in my opinion, a reasonable decision for the Russian economy. It is clear that we need to help our neighbors, but not at our own expense, and so we are sponsoring Belarus quite well with oil products (there are billions of dollars).
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 15 May 2013 16: 01
        46
        Quote: vladsolo56
        Russia has ruined its enterprises, now it has set the task to ruin the Belarusian

        Quote: fortuneophile
        neighbors need help, but not at the expense of ourselves, and so we are well sponsoring Belarus with oil products

        Quote: avt
        to crush the auto industry of Belarus, are ready to go to any lengths


        BAZ - about which problems in the article, is in Bryansk. And Bryansk is in Russia. Suddenly, who does not know.
        1. fortunophile
          fortunophile 15 May 2013 16: 10
          16
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          BAZ - about which problems in the article, is in Bryansk. And Bryansk is in Russia. Suddenly, who does not know.

          Nikolay, thanks for the lesson repeat It just worked the stereotype of the wheeled chassis supplied by Belarus. Well, Vladsolo got out with comments, so I laughed, I apologize to everyone and Belarusians in particular hi
        2. ultra
          ultra 15 May 2013 16: 26
          +8
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          Suddenly, who does not know.

          Looks like someone doesn’t know! request
        3. Suhov
          Suhov 15 May 2013 17: 54
          +4
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          BAZ - about which problems in the article, is in Bryansk. AND Bryansk in Russia. Suddenly, who does not know.

          А Belarus in Europe. Suddenly, who does not know.
          Belarus, the official name is the Republic of Belarus - an independent state in Eastern Europe.
          wassat
          The Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant (MZKT) supplies the MZKT-79221 eight-axle special wheeled chassis (SKSh) for the Strategic Missile Forces of the RF Armed Forces. Since November 4, 2005 they have been mass-produced for Topol-M and Yars mobile ground-based missile systems (PGRK), which today and in the medium term make up the core of ground-based strategic nuclear forces.
          hi
          1. andrei. 2012
            andrei. 2012 15 May 2013 18: 04
            0
            Yes, but with the Yaroslavl diesel engine YaMZ-847.10
            Is it really profitable to assemble an engine in one country and a chassis in another?
            1. sso-xnumx
              sso-xnumx 15 May 2013 21: 27
              +1
              ties from the Soviet era! cooperation however !!!
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. SWEETER 78
              SWEETER 78 29 December 2018 20: 04
              0
              Yaroslavl Diesels Are the most promising power plants !!!! I see no reason for not contenting !!! Moreover, at the moment new developments are underway for serial production of R in-line 6-cylinder engines YaMZ 770 (480-680) l with 780 (580 -780) l !!! There were initiatives to abandon the V-shaped power plants !! But everyone came to the point that it is possible to modify about Nicknames !!! If they succeed in doing this, YaMZ 236 will force it from its maximum 380 to 420 and YaMZ 520 from its Max 238 to 480 and B620 YaMZ 12 from its Max 240 l to bring to 500-680 !!! At the same time, save MOTO RESOURCE or INCREASE Min 720 Norm 200 Max 400 thousand Km to Cap Repair !! Then it will be generally cool !! Almost progress!
        4. vladsolo56
          vladsolo56 15 May 2013 17: 59
          +6
          What am I talking about? it is about the fact that they killed their own. But by the way, Belarusian enterprises have always worked and are working for the Russian defense industry. Reliable and modern machines are delivered reliably and on time. Belarusians have gained vast experience, and for decades they designed and built machines for the military-industrial complex. Agreements with subcontractors are debugged. Whether to create an analogue at KAMAZ is it not sticks in the wheels of Belarus. KAMAZ, all the more so in Tatarstan, should there be a mess and there will be no factory, no cars. So today Belarus is more reliable than KAMAZ.
          1. fortunophile
            fortunophile 15 May 2013 18: 14
            +5
            Quote: vladsolo56
            KAMAZ, all the more so in Tatarstan, should there be a mess and there will be no factory, no cars. So today Belarus is more reliable than KAMAZ.

            Is that the lack of a brain? Tatarstan on the Volga, almost in the center of Russia, what kind of mess is it and where will it go? fool And if in Belarus the Old Man will be removed then what?
            1. crambol
              crambol 15 May 2013 18: 23
              +2
              Respected! Do you know how an optimist differs from a pessimist? A pessimist is a knowledgeable optimist!
            2. vladsolo56
              vladsolo56 15 May 2013 20: 16
              +1
              Tatarstan is on the Volga, but it may not be known to you that Islamic fundamentalism is growing there now, and there are no guarantees that the second Chechnya will not be repeated. However, you are most likely so naive and believe that this, in principle, cannot be
              1. Retx
                Retx 15 May 2013 20: 54
                +4
                Only it is not Chechens who are bandits by their nature. A quarter do not speak Tatar, about 70% live in cities, and young people put a bolt on Islam. What are fundamentalists? They will be plopped as soon as the Tatars themselves immediately.
              2. djon3volta
                djon3volta 15 May 2013 21: 28
                +3
                Quote: vladsolo56
                Tatarstan is on the Volga, but maybe you don’t know, Islamic fundamentalism is growing there now

                good to drive you! Islamic fundamentalism in Moscow or St. Petersburg in the clothing markets more than in Tatarstan laughing
              3. Shadowcat
                Shadowcat 16 May 2013 04: 29
                +1
                Quote: vladsolo56
                Tatarstan is on the Volga, but it may not be known to you that Islamic fundamentalism is growing there now, and there are no guarantees that the second Chechnya will not be repeated. However, you are most likely so naive and believe that this, in principle, cannot be

                Ha! Then it’s generally worth taking from the air (read from nowhere). After all, something can happen everywhere. There alone, here others, and there fourths. Sir, you distort.
          2. Retx
            Retx 15 May 2013 18: 28
            0
            The Tatars in Tatarstan are assimilated for the most part, and it will not work there.
          3. Gecko
            Gecko 15 May 2013 19: 52
            +4
            Do you know that Russians in Tatarstan are almost half the population
          4. MichaelVl
            MichaelVl 15 July 2013 08: 00
            +2
            vladsolo56,
            those. according to your logic, Tatarstan can start a mess and bring up the military-industrial complex in its SAME COUNTRY, but Belarusian enterprises located in ANOTHER STATE (albeit fraternal and union) will never start a mess and will serve Russia faithfully for centuries! Do you think that enterprises within Russia are less reliable for their defense industry than enterprises of another state ...

            At least you have a strange logic.
      2. INC_1254
        INC_1254 15 May 2013 16: 05
        13
        From October to December, the brother did practical training at the Kamaz factory, don’t think that I’m dirtying the factory, but according to the Brother they collect poorly, because they do not have time to fulfill orders, they put up defective parts so that there are no delays, and only when he is at this factory the military returned a batch of about 160 cars (I don’t know the exact number). Tough control is needed, and everything will be fine!
        1. Ruslan_F38
          Ruslan_F38 15 May 2013 16: 37
          +4
          Sabotage, you can’t call it anything else.
        2. puskarinkis
          puskarinkis 15 May 2013 18: 52
          -1
          I would like to ask, how much is Kamaz Russian? It is located in Russia, but the state-owned company owns less than 50% of the shares.
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 16 May 2013 00: 02
            +4
            Under the control of Daimler 14%. More than 50% under the control of Rostec, i.e. Putin's colleague Chemezov
          2. SWEETER 78
            SWEETER 78 29 December 2018 20: 07
            0
            Thirty percent so 30 40 RUSSIAN !!! SO YEAR IN 2 4 !!
            It will be OUR TOTAL !!!
            1. SWEETER 78
              SWEETER 78 29 December 2018 22: 41
              0
              Quote: SWEETER 78
              I think so percent 30 40 RUSSIAN !!! SO YEAR IN 2 4 !!
              It will be OUR TOTAL !!!
        3. sso-xnumx
          sso-xnumx 15 May 2013 21: 29
          0
          so after all, Taburetkin, with the consent of the gdp and the lady of the military representatives, shortened !!!!!!!!!
          here you have the result !!!
      3. Vrungel78
        Vrungel78 15 May 2013 17: 48
        +2
        However, learn geography hi
      4. T-130
        T-130 15 May 2013 21: 10
        +3
        If Kamaz is a good chassis, then why did the Arabs abandon these chassis? There is no experience in working with special products — don’t get into it first!
    2. starshina78
      starshina78 15 May 2013 20: 33
      -1
      KAMAZ got it! Popping everywhere! These are probably its main shareholders, Mercedes, acting on the sly.
    3. sso-xnumx
      sso-xnumx 15 May 2013 21: 25
      +7
      BAZ is a Bryansk automobile plant, not a Belarusian one. It’s time to know, and you have three more oooooooh big stars ...
  2. kasarov
    kasarov 15 May 2013 15: 45
    11
    Yes, when you already understand that the verbiage of the ruling is it, and the reality is not lying around here.
  3. avt
    avt 15 May 2013 15: 50
    +1
    We’re ready to do everything, as always for the sake of 300%, and our mother will be buried alive in order to crush the auto industry of Belarus. negative
    1. Containers
      Containers 15 May 2013 22: 11
      +2
      Dude, here about Russia, you know. Not about Belarus, but about Russia. =) Before angrily commenting - read what others write or look into a geography textbook. wink
  4. Arct
    Arct 15 May 2013 16: 01
    +4
    And on which side are the BAZ and Belarus interconnected? O_o
    1. Drednout
      Drednout 15 May 2013 16: 42
      +2
      Quote: Arkt
      And on which side are the BAZ and Belarus interconnected?

      Well, apparently, comrades have a bit of a problem with geography.
      Bryansk, although it is more western than Moscow, but still Russia. lol
    2. Suhov
      Suhov 15 May 2013 18: 02
      +3
      Quote: Arkt
      And on which side are the BAZ and Belarus interconnected? O_o

      Both have higher product quality than KAMAZ.
  5. Executer
    Executer 15 May 2013 16: 05
    +3
    Friends, I don’t understand, what does Belarus have to do with it? Bryansk is Russia! Although close to Belarus ...
    1. Algor73
      Algor73 15 May 2013 16: 56
      +3
      Belarus despite the fact that there is the Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant, a competitor to BAZ
      1. Suhov
        Suhov 15 May 2013 18: 26
        +2
        Quote: Algor73
        Belarus despite the fact that there is the Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant, a competitor to BAZ

        Both MZKT and BAZ, unlike KAMAZ, make high-quality products.
        But the "competitive" battle won - KAMAZ, and only because: "The customer can buy competitive equipment at his own discretion."
        About the competition.
        Was conceivedthat as a result of competition, the customer will receive quality products at a fair price.
        What happened? Competition is limited to the struggle for money (orders) between the performers. Moreover, as follows from the article, the Customer himself turns a blind eye to the quality of products.
        1. cdrt
          cdrt 16 May 2013 00: 07
          0
          I don’t know about quality, but about the show of KamAZ and BAZ, the video from the training ground was very indicative. BAZ may be better, but as if on paper, it was much better to ride in KamAZ.
          Those. It was clear from the video that the Kamazoids had thought how and why the machine would be used and built for this configuration, for the Customer.
          BAZ didn’t even lift a finger
  6. avt
    avt 15 May 2013 16: 11
    +7
    Quote: Arkt
    And on which side are the BAZ and Belarus interconnected? O_o

    There is such a braid of "economic entities", at first they decided to put pressure on the Belarusians through Bryansk, then they decided that KAMAZ had already crushed Minsk and the Bryansk people did not seem to be needed, now it seems like the dad let KAMAZ past the cash register and they said that they would make a heavy platform themselves. here is a litmus test and a bargaining chip in someone else's game, and the main bonus is MAZ and BelAZ, and the chassis for the army is secondary, like the BAZ itself. request Now, if in general it is seen as follows.
    1. Rezun
      Rezun 15 May 2013 16: 56
      +4
      There is such a braid of "business entities"

      I completely agree with you. One hope for the Old Man-KAMAZ lobby crushes not childishly. All this canoe will come back in three years ...
      1. Suhov
        Suhov 15 May 2013 19: 33
        +1
        Quote: Rezun
        I completely agree with you. One hope for the Old Man-KAMAZ lobby crushes non-childishly.All this canoe comes back in three years ...

        Where is the beginning of the end with which the beginning ends?
        1. Rezun
          Rezun 16 May 2013 18: 21
          0
          I hope Goldmitro's comments will remove your bewilderment ... (Yesterday, 18:09)
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. seller trucks
      seller trucks 15 May 2013 17: 31
      +1
      stop you not intending to weave intrigue, everything is banal and simple - it did not work out agree on a price. second, I repeat between MAZ and MZKT nothing in common, except perhaps in some cases of the cabin, engine / gearbox (YaMZ Russia), by the way why they are called Mazovian I do not understand, and the axles. that's all, different plants.
  7. BARKAS
    BARKAS 15 May 2013 16: 29
    +6
    All this begins to resemble the history of the KZKT, this plant was also ruined at the time.
    1. kind
      kind 15 May 2013 16: 55
      +3
      Yes, KZKT were no worse than MAZs!
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 15 May 2013 17: 12
        +3
        completely, different product groups, MAZ produced (for) MAZ 6525 military tractors and MAZ 6317 sides. KZKT truck tractor KZKT-545, truck tractor KZKT-7428 "Rusich", wheeled chassis KZKT-8005, you are in error
      2. SWEETER 78
        SWEETER 78 29 December 2018 20: 53
        -1
        KURGAN KZKT RUSICH 7824 !!!!! You can Lehgo Equalize the Power of the Belarusian MZKT Without a Kapotnik MZKT-741310 MZKT-742952 and if not a BANKROT could overtake and Overtake without a KHOTNIK MZKT-741351 and KAPOTNIK MZKT 74135 !!!!! The BZKT should catch up with the FAUN Elefant technologies, but the KZKT MAN FAUN (Mamont) !! MZKT still fights in their ranks, they can compete with them WITHOUT the MZKT-741351 HOOD AND MZKT 74135 HOOD !!! AND THE RUSSIAN KAMAZ-78509 "Platform-O"! ! Really THERE IS ELECTRIFICATED TRANSMISSION !!!
  8. ramsi
    ramsi 15 May 2013 16: 47
    +9
    Stalin, at one time, knew many directors of factories personally, especially those producing military products. I cannot imagine that He would "close His eyes" to a "sinking" enterprise. But Vova is very welcome and as much as necessary
  9. seller trucks
    seller trucks 15 May 2013 16: 53
    +2
    the author of the article too "thickens the colors", to put it mildly, at BAZ the issue of bankruptcy is not in principle, BAZ is a member of the Independent Association of Mechanical Engineers (NAMS) and produces, in addition to tractors for the military, civilian products, the delivery time for an example of a truck crane on a BAZ chassis is 6 months, also chassis for Gazprom and oil workers, for military chassis for: "Moon", "Tochka", "Wasp", "Uragan", "Wasp". I am tormented by vague doubts, and not a typical Mr. Privalov "all-consuming" according to the articles: http://vpk-news.ru/authors/5059
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 16 May 2013 00: 13
      0
      Almost literally, a similar article was three or four years ago, when it was really bad at the BAZ.
      Now the PR service of the plant began to fulfill the order, the author faked it, took the old one, added a couple of new paragraphs and started it as a new article :-))))
  10. Dimy4
    Dimy4 15 May 2013 17: 43
    -2
    The motto of the recent Ministry of Defense is "Give us stools on wheels!" That's where the dog fumbled.
  11. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 15 May 2013 18: 09
    +7
    <<< According to all the agreed documents, it was planned to supply the Pantsir-S1 complex for export to the Middle East on the KAMAZ-6560 chassis, and to the RF Armed Forces - the Pantsir-S complex on the BAZ-6909 chassis. According to the reviews of the specialists who participated in the reassembly of the BM complex equipment and in the run tests and firing at the Kapustin Yar and Ashuluk ranges, the BM on the BAZ-6909-019 chassis has higher travel speeds, dynamics, cross-country ability, and a smooth ride. Why the Pantsir-S on the BAZ-6909-019 chassis did not go into production is not so difficult to guess.
    The Bryansk Automobile Plant is not afraid of competition, but, as previous experience has shown, the best performance characteristics of equipment do not always determine the result - in 2008–2012, decisions were more often made based on other considerations >>>
    Again, the donkey ears of "effective managers" are visible, who do not care about all sorts of performance characteristics, it is not for them to ride on these chassis! The main thing is to regulate financial flows in such a way that you do not forget yourself: obviously, the KAMAZ lobby turned out to be pliable. The main "effective manager" Per..yukov was removed, but it seems that his business is alive and well. When will the RF Ministry of Defense get rid of all these "managers" and start buying equipment for the Army that has really the best performance characteristics, and not the best SPONSORS !!
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 15 May 2013 20: 02
      +5
      "Pantsir-S" on the chassis of the BAZ "Voshchina-1".
  12. My doctor
    My doctor 15 May 2013 18: 27
    +5
    vladsolo56 and fortunofilu would put a minus for the fact that they do not know that Bryansk is in Russia, and then everything kicks at the Americans that they are stupid do not know where which city is in the world and do not know their cities.
    BAZ-Bryansk Automobile Plant in the past BZKT-Bryansk Wheel Tractor Plant
    and MZKT (VOLAT) is the Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant.
    sorry i just have no right to rate
  13. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 15 May 2013 18: 46
    +1
    the owner of the plant is already considering even such a fantastic option as a complete reprofiling of production

    And they’re doing it right. It’s better to play it safe than get a shovel in the face in case of refusal of the military. You must be ready for any combination of circumstances.
  14. Dimy4
    Dimy4 15 May 2013 18: 55
    +1
    Guys, what's the minus? Are you fans of Serdyukov?
    1. No_more
      No_more 15 May 2013 19: 23
      +4
      Probably people don’t like when in every article someone shouts that Serdyukov is to blame for everything.
      1. tired of
      2. not in everything
  15. No_more
    No_more 15 May 2013 19: 17
    +1
    The fact is that such problems are resolved in court, but, alas, in our country (no offense will be said) in everything around the military and budget, they do not know how to fight for their rights and do not know them. Agreements are concluded and signed, they have a mandatory section "responsibility of the parties", so it could shake the MO for not fulfilling the conditions. Otherwise, you can live like this and guess who will want to give money how and when.
    And not only the Moscow Region may fine for non-fulfillment of orders and failure to meet deadlines.
  16. avt
    avt 15 May 2013 20: 00
    +1
    Quote: No_more
    The fact is that such problems are solved in a judicial proceeding, but, alas, in our country (no offense will be said) in everything near-war and budget they are not able to fight for their rights and do not know them.

    laughing I saw it as a pair of businessmen of my acquaintances suing, one with the mayor's office of Luzhkov, the other with the Ministry of Internal Affairs. In the first case, they received a letter that they will receive money for the work done in the ... eleventh year, and after not a single tender was won in Moscow, the second got under the criminal case on the economic side, barely recaptured, the money for the work done was written off at a loss. Knowledge of the law does not exempt from the kid.
  17. waisson
    waisson 15 May 2013 20: 21
    +4
    what KAMAZ him only in Dakar to show himself in the army but not in the first roles but not in his last beggar this is the golden mean
  18. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 15 May 2013 20: 27
    +5
    The situation was unsightly, however ... Especially unsightly, given the fact that this is happening with an enterprise producing military equipment. Moreover, a good enough and high-quality equipment ... And you will not find the extreme, and no one will answer for this mess. For lately it’s so customary ...
    But at the Bryansk Automobile Plant, in addition to wheeled chassis, interesting examples of wheeled military equipment were also created. For example, the now little-known experimental wheeled BMP "Object 1200" ...

    "1200 Object"
  19. sergaivenski
    sergaivenski 15 May 2013 20: 31
    +1
    Too much chatter around good projects !!!
  20. T-130
    T-130 15 May 2013 21: 16
    0
    It's time to take an example from China! All that represents the country's strategic interests is to nationalize!
    1. Black
      Black 15 May 2013 22: 07
      +2
      They didn’t privatize there!
      There is no need to nationalize, healthy competition is needed. Only in conditions of sound competition was worthwhile technology born and will be born.
  21. sso-xnumx
    sso-xnumx 15 May 2013 21: 40
    +4
    When General Mayev was in charge of the GABTU of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Kamaz trucks were shoved into all units of the troops under the base chassis. I had to answer the questions of military officers "why not Ural?" in one phrase - "apparently KAMAZ has more money." UralAZ offered and still offers vehicles for the troops that are simpler to operate and maintain, reliable and unpretentious, but they have no money for advertising and promotion. That's why they lose. Apparently in their leadership, normal men are sitting, they do not sell their muzzles because they respect themselves!
  22. ilya63
    ilya63 15 May 2013 21: 42
    0
    Kamaz as a car and an all-terrain vehicle ("marmont" will make it through its cross-country ability) has always been and will be rubbish, it was bought at one time with big kickbacks like fiat, now there is no quality components and spare parts junk (who had or has his own Kamaz will understand , often a car of the end of the eighties runs longer from breakdown to breakdown than new ones), if they put imports, they are the most consumer goods (two-burners, electronic filling, top-equipment), and at the expense of Tatarstan, do not flatter yourself there is no open confrontation, but they did not send them to Chechnya fighters, sabotage with a quiet glan, while here for the homeland there is anyone who can get in his pocket. For military special equipment, it is necessary to develop a specialized chassis for specific purposes and tasks, I was not at the BAZ, but I had to face the MZKT, and if they supply more or less chassis to the defense industry, then the civilian sector of special equipment is also junk else (more than 6 years I have been operating MZKT special tractors - worries full)
    1. Containers
      Containers 15 May 2013 22: 17
      0
      Sorry muah, but why did the Cummins diesels fail to please you? Another thing is what they can put collected from us - it's good there if the screw is driven with a hammer, and if suddenly the nail is wrapped with a screwdriver? lol
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 16 May 2013 00: 19
      0
      About the purchase of KAMAZ for kickbacks in more detail, please write, and with facts, facts, not OBS ...

      It seems like they designed on ZiL ...
      Yes, we bought equipment abroad. Actually, as for all complex industries that were built since the 60s. And not at all due to kickbacks
  23. studentmati
    studentmati 15 May 2013 23: 07
    +2
    Belarusians kept their production. It's time for integration!
  24. vadson
    vadson 15 May 2013 23: 47
    +4
    as one friend of mine says, prof drove:
    Kamaz - the pride of the Tatars, the tears of Russia
    the air tubes, they say, are just enraging :-)
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 16 May 2013 00: 21
      +2
      Revenge for the capture of Kazan (c) the owner of a small transport company in Samara wink
      1. vadson
        vadson 16 May 2013 00: 35
        +1
        they didn’t take shpak, but they all take revenge on us
  25. Siberian German
    Siberian German 16 May 2013 04: 11
    +2
    Quote: fortuneophile
    Quote: vladsolo56
    Russia has ruined its enterprises, now it has set the task of ditching the Byelorussian as well, then we will again argue whether to buy equipment from the French, Italians, or most likely from China.

    KAMAZ works fine and the fact that "Pantsir" is put on KAMAZ trucks is, in my opinion, a reasonable decision for the Russian economy. It is clear that we need to help our neighbors, but not at our own expense, and so we are sponsoring Belarus quite well with oil products (there are billions of dollars).

    our generals cannot go out by any ordinary Byzantine cunning, and to say directly Kamaz makes equipment for this and that, and braz for that. but the question, most likely, is that the Tatars probably have stronger arguments - if they don’t have work there, then the population’s tension will increase and Bryansk-the Russians will sit and work
  26. NordUral
    NordUral 25 June 2017 16: 09
    0
    When comrade Such leaders would have long been "innocently" repressed by Stalin and would have felled the forest on the southern shores of the Arctic Ocean.
  27. Laplander
    Laplander 3 October 2019 19: 09
    0
    Good afternoon. Almost to the topic, one of the symbols of the Soviet army, is the complete history of the Maz-535/537 tractor family.