Whose mistakes are best to learn from?

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Whose mistakes are best to learn from?
Photo generated by AI

What is happening in Iran today simply must remain in the annals of military history. stories not only because it is one of the wars that has shaken our planet, but also because this war can be called a war of lost initiatives and destroyed foundations.

On March 4, the American submarine Charlotte torpedoed the Iranian corvette Dena, which fell victim to the American submarine simply because the Americans wanted it that way. The ship was lost, most of the crew perished, but most importantly, the ship was sunk in an undeclared war, a ship that was unarmed because it was returning from a parade.




March 4th became a kind of finale, because it drew a certain line under the beating of the Iranian fleetAnd on March 10, a US Air Force video appeared in the media, depicting how valiant US pilots sank Iranian minelayers at their berths, along with several other ships.

All this made me think deeply and recall some proverbs from the past. For example, the one about how smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

Was the corvette "Dena" of great value as a warship?



The Dena was equipped with a vertical launch system, the first ever installed on an Iranian ship. The ship was armed with anti-aircraft (Sayyad-2 SAM) and anti-ship (4) missiles. missiles "Nur" or "Gader") missiles.

The remaining armament consisted of a 76 mm Fajr-27 gun, a 40 mm Fath-40 anti-aircraft gun, a 30 mm Kamand anti-aircraft gun, two 20 mm Oerlikon cannons, two 12,7 mm heavy machine guns and two triple-tube 324 mm anti-submarine torpedo tubes.

But the story of the "Den" is a separate one. The sinking of an unarmed (and this was a condition of the parade in India), albeit a warship, by the "Charlotte" is treated in the same light as the sinkings of the "Athenia" and "Lusitania," and carries roughly the same level of honor.

Moreover, it wasn’t just the Charlotte that was hanging around in the area; there were at least three American nuclear submarines there, so the Dena was doomed anyway.

But another ship, also targeted by the US, is more complicated: the Shahid Sayyad Shirazi, which belongs to the IRGC Navy.


The ship is, shall we say, a controversial one. A 32-knot corvette-catamaran, equipped with the latest Iranian electronics and armed with a 30mm automatic cannon as its main armament, four triple-barreled 20mm Gatling guns, and missile armament:

- 6 anti-ship missiles (4 long-range, 2 medium-range);
- 16 surface-to-air missiles (Sayad2/3) and short-range air defense systems;
- 6 surface-to-surface missiles (SSM Abu Mahdi).

And here questions arise. Why were all the defensive capabilities of the newest Chinese-built corvette powerless against aviation ammunition?


Or, to continue, why did Iranian commanders allow their fleet to be so unceremoniously shelled? Bases must be protected from both naval and air attacks, as was clearly demonstrated in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine in the Black Sea, when the Russian fleet was forced to seek shelter beyond the range of Ukrainian bases. drones and unmanned boats.

It's difficult to say why Tehran ignored such valuable experience. But repeating the mistakes of 2023 in 2026 is, at the very least, illogical.

It seems that both the Iranian and IRGC naval command didn't take the US threat seriously. But this time, the Americans weren't joking, and the Iranian ships remained moored at their berths, where they began to be sunk.

Of course, it's much easier to fight for the survivability of a ship that's developed problems in a port where all the infrastructure is available than on the open sea, but this raises another question: what prevented at least some of the ships from being transferred to ports in friendly Pakistan, which most likely wouldn't have refused?

Khamenei Sr. did everything to die a martyr and thereby ignite the people's resistance. Today, this is completely understandable and, on the whole, quite logical. At the very least, Khamenei's sacrifice was certainly not in vain, and that's exactly what happened. Those who raged in the streets of Iranian cities just a month ago have fallen silent, and the country as a whole is unanimous, as is expected during an attack by an external enemy.

But sacrificing warships seems odd, especially given the ongoing standoff between Iran and the US in the Strait of Hormuz.


Yes, the Americans have disabled some of the forces of both Iranian navies, but Iran continues to blockade the Strait of Hormuz, making a point of punishing tankers attempting to transit. Last week, several tankers were attacked there, which clearly discouraged others from taking risks. The strikes were carried out using a wide range of weapons, from aerial drones and anti-ship missiles to unmanned boats.

All of this already feels less like a demonstration of Iran's capabilities than a test. However, the same applies to their adversaries. What could be a better way to truly test the armed forces and navy than a military conflict?

Here we can recall how long the Russian army prevailed over everyone in competitions designed primarily for the Russian army to win, and how useful these competitions were when it came to the Air Defense Forces. It's clear that, judging by how abruptly the "Army Games" were consigned to oblivion by the new Defense Minister Belousov, their value was practically nil.

The situation with the navy is roughly the same. Confrontations in the Strait of Hormuz and the Black Sea provide invaluable material for analysis, based on which one can draw conclusions about the direction in which any navy should develop.

The destruction of the corvette "Dena" once again confirmed that the most effective weapons Nuclear submarines remain a vital resource. They are capable of monitoring vast areas, doing so covertly, without surfacing for long periods.

It's worth considering that no more than three days passed between the receipt of the combat order and the destruction of the Den, which primarily suggests that the submarine that sank the Iranian ship was in the area long before that moment. In other words, it was on combat duty.

Well, it's long been known that American submarines have a quiet presence in areas of US interest. The fact that four submarines were in the northern Indian Ocean speaks volumes, but politics is beside the point today.

Some today express regret that Russian multipurpose nuclear submarines are encountered less frequently in the world's oceans—or, more accurately, practically never, unlike American ones. This is true: encountering Russian nuclear submarines in the Atlantic or Indian Ocean is practically impossible; the only question is the necessity of such missions.

However, these days, when anyone and everyone is engaged in piracy against oil and gas tankers, isn't ensuring the unimpeded navigation of tankers a task for a submarine, especially given the Russian Navy's severe shortage of ships?

This doesn't necessarily require sinking Western ships that are attempting to intercept Russian vessels. Indeed, surfacing and sending the pirates to a known location would be sufficient. And if that doesn't work, then sending a torpedo is perfectly justifiable. And after the first incident, the number of people willing to rip apart our tankers will be halved.


True, this requires a firm policy from the country's leadership, one that seeks to resolve problems with torpedoes rather than with worries and regrets. But that's much more difficult.

And one more thing. The "Dena" was sailing alone, without the slightest cover. In the style of the cruiser "Moskva," which also met a tragic end. Generally speaking, experience shows that all these solo voyages with "flag displays" and other such matters should be a thing of the past, as such activities are becoming unsafe.

Convoys are especially dangerous. It seems that oil transportation will be exactly that in the coming years—fraught with difficulties and dangers. It's all well and good if countries like the Baltics or Great Britain, which have boats and inflatable boats instead of warships, are planning to commit piracy, but a bad example is contagious, and it's being set by the United States, whose ships are still in good order.

Speaking of the USA



If you look closely at how the US Navy plans all its movements around the world, you'll see how the Americans plot their ships' routes, especially when they're traveling alone. That is, yes, American ships do travel alone, but they do so in a way that allows them to quickly receive assistance either from bases or from allies. And air cover is a must, if needed. So US ships feel quite confident in the world's oceans.

Perhaps only China and India can afford this; their naval strengths allow it. Other countries lack the capacity, but if necessary, it's worth considering preserving their ships under any circumstances. The time for solo voyages is over. There are too many dangers above and below the surface of the world's oceans, and we must take this into account. Otherwise, like the Dena, you'll sink to the bottom with most of your crew.

Countermeasures? Yes, quite possible. In World War I, German U-boats made life very difficult for the British Empire, and in the first half of World War II, they were even worse – they brought Britain to the brink of starvation. And what was the best way to preserve the convoy? The Asdic and escort ships.

Why Iranian ships, even after leaving their ports, began their solo voyages under American air strikes is a complex question. But the Shahed Shirrazi, for instance, failed to make any coherent statement: clearly taking advantage of its stealth, it left its base, evading air strikes, and headed out to sea. But the ship was unable to complete its mission (if it had one) or survive.

Sadly, just one drone (presumably an MQ-4C Triton) sealed the fate of the newest corvette. The base processed the data and directed aircraft at the Shirazi, but the corvette was powerless to counter it.

And that's strange. A ship is a stable combat platform, energetically stable. That means more powerful radars, more powerful computers, more powerful systems. EW, compared to aircraft. The Shirazi was equipped with the latest Iranian and Chinese electronics, as well as at least short-range air defense systems. But in reality, neither the electronic warfare, nor the missiles, nor the numerous automatic cannons saved the Shirazi.

And here, parallels are necessary, as the Shahid Shirazi is a direct analogue of our small missile ships of Project 21631 Buyan-M and Project 22800 Karakurt. Essentially, they were all built around the same naval warfare concept: to operate covertly in confined waters like the Baltic or the Persian Gulf, primarily with missile weapons.


And here two problems arise: aviation and unmanned combat aircraft. The Shirazi seemed to be equipped with everything necessary, moreover, as for unmanned combat aircraft, compared to Russian ships with their artillery It actually looked like a Terminator. Karakurts with the naval version of the Pantsir-S1 were okay, but the Buyan-Ms... Anyway, let's not dwell on the sad stuff. The sad thing is that our ships, for the most part, are practically defenseless against aircraft. Or rather, underarmed, that would be more accurate.

After all, it's not the numbers in the performance specifications that make war; it's the weapons that make war. And since the US calmly sank 16 Iranian ships without losing a single aircraft, this suggests that the plan Defense Things are very bad for the Iranian fleet.

The fact is, experience has shown that a "mosquito" fleet is incapable of defending itself against air strikes, and often even against naval strikes (BEC). Much has been made about the advisability of protecting borders using small ships armed with large missiles, but, alas, experience in both the Black Sea and the Persian Gulf has shown that aviation continues to solve and create significant problems for the enemy.

Lesson: Even the newest ships can only operate if they are reliably covered by aircraft or air defenses. Otherwise, once they are detected, their destruction will be a matter of the near future.

Russia (and Ukraine, too, could have done the same, had it possessed a navy) and Iran confirmed the truth of this conclusion firsthand, and, moreover, it was astonishing to watch Iran repeat, centimeter-by-centimeter, the mistakes made by the Russian admirals. True, the Black Sea Fleet's losses were not as significant, but Kyiv also lacked the might of the US Navy's strike group.

Preliminary result:
- US aviation has an advantage in the air;
- Iranian aviation and air defense are engaged in shooting drones and the fight against missiles;
- Iran's fleets have lost a number of ships and are not demonstrating combat effectiveness.

The Strait of Hormuz remains closed


No aircraft, no ships. In other words, all these costly US missile and bomb strikes on Iran have failed to achieve their main success. The tankers remain idle, and some of them, which Iranian intelligence has learned belong to the United States, are being attacked and burning.


Paradoxically, the task of countering US and Israeli forces is accomplished not by ships and aircraft, or even by UAVs and unmanned aerial vehicles, but by the most common mobile coastal missile systems, and not the latest generation at that. Copies of Chinese and Soviet anti-ship missiles accomplished the task with maximum effectiveness.

It should be noted that since February 28 there has not been a single report from the American side about the defeat of even one Iranian missile system.

The US military was initially skeptical of coastal missile systems. It was believed they had tactical options that could reliably counter such a threat: a combination of UAVs and strike aircraft.

In other words, the UAV detects and guides aircraft, which solves the problem. However, as practice has shown, UAVs cannot fly properly over Iranian territory and conduct reconnaissance. Something is blocking them, specifically Iranian anti-aircraft missiles. Meanwhile, on the other side of the Strait, the Houthis are having a similar fun, no less effectively driving Hermes and Reaper missiles into the ground.

Aircraft... But yes, American aircraft don't demonstrate miracles of bravery and operate from maximum range to avoid being hit by air defenses. Hence their successes, exclusively along the coastal strip and with cruise missiles deep into the country.

What lesson can be learned from all this chaotic listing:
- a ship, large or small, is still an easy target for aircraft. Mainly due to its low speed (again, compared to an aircraft) and maneuverability;
- the ship can become an effective combat unit in the absence of enemy aircraft or reliable cover from air threats;
- missile systems, covered from the air, can perform the task of keeping the enemy at a distance from the coast, blocking the strait, and so on.

In general, lessons can be learned from any military conflict.

Ships should not be positioned in full view of the enemy. This makes them targets, and easy targets at that. This was proven by Kronstadt, Pearl Harbor, Bandar Abbas, and other, albeit lesser-known, places.

A large ship (unless it's a vessel like the Shahid Bagheri) has a chance of fending off attacking aircraft, while a small ship's chances are slim. But a small ship costs less, so Iran will recoup the loss of its minesweepers within a few years; corvettes are a bit more expensive and complicated.

A single ship has practically ceased to be of combat value. This was proven by the Argentine-British conflict of the last century. Today, even more so, a single ship (except perhaps a destroyer) must be used in combat under the "umbrella" of air power, with missile cover from the shore. Otherwise, it will be like the Iranian corvettes.

Some will learn their lessons, while others will breathe a sigh of relief and forget it like a bad dream. To each their own, as they say. The US sank 16 Iranian ships. Did this have any impact on the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz? None. Did this affect the price of oil? Yes, it's surpassed $100. And it will continue to do so, because tankers are still burning in the Strait.

So it turns out that without any air power to begin with, with some hodgepodge of air defenses, and a half-submerged navy, you can tenderly hold half the world by the throat. With missiles alone, which, let's admit, are far from the pinnacle of technical perfection.

There's something for everyone to learn. And there's something to think about before tomorrow, because what could start tomorrow (and as practice shows, anything can start) must be thought through today.
206 comments
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  1. + 36
    16 March 2026 04: 54
    There's something for everyone to learn. And something to think about until tomorrow.
    This is if there is someone to learn from and someone to think about...
    1. +5
      16 March 2026 09: 27
      And those who are to be taught must also be there!
      Volodya! hi
      1. + 44
        16 March 2026 10: 53
        Verbal juggling. First and foremost, the government must be led by competent and highly professional, patriotic, and creative statesmen, not random, rather second-hand individuals from the 90s, with the mentality of shuttle traders from a nearby market, i.e., extremely inferior and dependent on external control. Lack of talent, mediocrity, a personnel policy bordering on idiocy, a loss of control, etc., give reason to question whose government this is, whose actions are more reminiscent of a colonial administration, and our place in the world. As for the navy, that requires goals and an unbending will with the highest professionalism, something our decrepit vertical power structure has never had; they're only interested in cash, not progress and development.
        1. +1
          16 March 2026 17: 09
          First of all, the authorities must have competent and highly professional, patriotic and creative statesmen,

          So it is
          Verbal balancing act.


          Who owes what to whom? Where can we find such people?
          Let's take a look without any chatter.
          I don't think you understand anything about the navy, well, I certainly don't understand much.
          So let's talk about what I understand.
          In computing and information technology.
          Ready to Start?
          1. -1
            17 March 2026 09: 29
            In computing and information technology.
            Ready to Start?

            Where to start? With the right sand? Why has there been no progress in 25 years?
        2. -1
          17 March 2026 13: 03
          The description of shuttle traders is spot on!
        3. 0
          18 March 2026 10: 33
          Quote: seacap
          And you are a fleet, for this you need goals and an unbending will with the highest professionalism

          Well, Patrushev recently announced that he's prepared a naval development program, either until 2050 or even 2060. In short, a long-term plan. When will they start, where will they build (it's no longer possible in the Black Sea and the Baltic, it's dangerous on the Kola Peninsula, and the Pacific Fleet, with its capacity, logistics, production base, personnel, and basing locations, is a problem), who will build where, who will serve on what's built, and who will command it all... So, you're right—we need a comprehensive, systemic approach with long-term planning, a scientific approach to this planning, an iron will and personnel to implement these plans, and a holistic concept for the development of the state, its place in the world, and the role of the Navy in solving these problems and defending its interests.
          Quote: seacap
          They are only about money, and this is not about progress and development.

          Well, in the history of our state there were such wonderful organizations as the NKVD, SMERSH, the Cheka, and the Oprichnina. If there was a will at the top, then "an example has been made."
          Otherwise, only the experience of 1917.
          A very difficult and extreme case. When the top official is completely useless, indecently despondent in his mind, the country is in a protracted war, and he rejects the correct solutions offered to him by Russia's finest minds, stubbornly drenching the front lines in the blood of the Empire's mobilized population. This is when such a "boss of Nikolka's Kingdom" acts up, is obtuse, and stubborn... ignoring both wise advice and the experience of repeated bloodshed... Such a person has only one fate, and it is well deserved.
          That's why no one tried to save THIS.
          That's why the monarchy was abolished: the Empire needed "protection from DyR@k@." Because they had suffered enough with this offspring of the "smart Father" to the point of "impossibility."
      2. +1
        16 March 2026 13: 06
        Quote: novel xnumx
        And those who are to be taught must also be there!

        They should...But teaching these ignoramuses will only spoil them. fool
        Roma! hi
  2. + 32
    16 March 2026 05: 11
    The sinking of an unarmed (and this was a condition of the parade in India), albeit a warship, by the Charlotte is treated in the same way as the sinking of the Athenia and the Lusitania, and there is about as much honor in it.

    Hmm... Like, if a warship doesn't have ammunition, then it's considered the same as a civilian dry cargo ship?
    Bases must be protected from both sea and air attacks.

    And a bus driver must know how to drive a bus...
    The Iranian naval command and the IRGC naval command did not take the threat from the United States seriously.

    This means they are mentally retarded.
    What prevented them from transferring at least some of the ships to the ports of friendly Pakistan, which most likely would not have refused?

    In 1991, Iran accepted Iraqi aircraft into its airfields. And didn't give them back.
    Confrontations in the Strait of Hormuz and the Black Sea provide valuable material for analysis, based on which one can draw conclusions about the direction in which any navy should develop.

    What's so valuable there? Air defense and aviation are the key to success.
    The submarine that sank the Iranian ship had been in the area long before that moment. That is, on combat duty.

    Well, there's the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln (which has already been sunk/damaged/driven away several times) hanging around near Oman, as part of a strike group that includes submarines designed to protect the strike group, which is what was done.
    They express regret that Russian multipurpose nuclear submarines are not encountered in the World Ocean as often, or rather, are practically never encountered, unlike American ones.

    In order for them to meet frequently as an American submarine, there must be at least an equal number of them.
    Even the newest ships will only be able to operate under conditions where they are reliably covered by aviation or air defense

    It's the same old story. This was confirmed over 60 years ago. On the other hand, there are still individuals who claim that aircraft carriers are useless.
    1. + 10
      16 March 2026 09: 00
      The sinking of an unarmed (and this was a condition of the parade in India), albeit a military ship

      The author's imagination. Warships don't sail the oceans unarmed. And to hear the author tell it, even pirates could have captured it...
      1. +4
        16 March 2026 19: 34
        The article states that the ship's lack of weapons was a condition for participating in the parade in India. Whether it was worth sending an unarmed ship to India when the Americans were threatening to strike is another matter.
        1. +1
          17 March 2026 20: 12
          The article states that the ship's lack of weapons was a condition for its participation in the parade in India.

          This is the author’s pure fantasy, not supported by anything, and has no connection to reality.
    2. +2
      16 March 2026 11: 17
      Quote: Puncher
      On the other hand, there are still individuals who claim that aircraft carriers are useless.

      They're good for those who can afford them. And not just one. And against weak countries.
      China is currently actively developing ballistic missiles specifically for aircraft carriers. Its air force is useless against them, absolutely useless. And it's not a given that its missile defense system would repel a massive ballistic missile attack from near-Earth space.
      1. +1
        19 March 2026 12: 45
        The USSR came up with this idea and even implemented it as a prototype on a diesel submarine (it was stationed in Olenya Bay in 1977, but it had a special warhead). But then, "something went wrong," and they began developing the submarine into an anti-ship missile.
        1. -1
          19 March 2026 16: 19
          Quote: K298rtm
          But there was a special combat unit in the warhead). But then, "something went wrong," and they started developing the submarine into an anti-ship missile.

          "Something's wrong..." -- this is the lack of a satellite constellation capable of searching for a target and accurately homing in on a MOVING object in real time. No one had such technology...
  3. + 38
    16 March 2026 05: 14
    Those Americans, those scoundrels, sank a warship just returning from parade... That's 100% how our people think, the Americans don't. For them, it's a goal, and the goal must be destroyed, by any means necessary. They don't care about casualties, they don't care about any kind of nobility or white gloves. The days of chivalry are long gone, and they were long gone, as soon as opponents stopped seeing each other directly on the battlefield, physically clashing in combat, seeing their opponent's eyes and emotions. In modern warfare, there's no consideration for the enemy, no talk of high morale, and so on, like in a computer game: fire and forget.
    1. + 30
      16 March 2026 05: 50
      Quote from turembo
      The times of chivalry are over

      Even during the early days of submarine warfare, all the conventions like issuing warnings, waiting for the crew to abandon ship, and then sinking it only applied to civilian vessels. This was never applied to warships—saw and attacked. Does it matter whether it had ammunition on board or not? It's unclear why the author is playing up the "it was sailing so defenseless..." theme.
      1. + 10
        16 March 2026 06: 37
        This is bullshit. Shaposhnikov was also unarmed? request Finding video of the shooting from the Milan 26 exercise is not difficult.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. + 11
          16 March 2026 07: 09
          Quote: Tlauicol
          That's bullshit. Was Shaposhnikov also unarmed? It's not hard to find video of the shooting from the Milan 26 exercise.

          Of course, that's nonsense. Participating in naval exercises implies the use of weapons. The funniest thing is that the MILAN 2026 exercises were focused on anti-submarine warfare techniques.
          1. +5
            16 March 2026 09: 45
            Well, that means the Iranians at these exercises practiced techniques to a solid C, or whatever scale they use.
            1. + 11
              16 March 2026 10: 21
              Unfortunately, the qualifications of Iranian sailors are highly questionable.
              even if it concerns coastal patrol functions that are well known to them.
              They, like many Arabs, rely too much on the "magic button" of technology. Missile defenses clearly demonstrate the difference in skill. While the Israelis and Americans need an average of three missiles to shoot down a ballistic missile, and they often succeed if they have the missiles, the Arabs often launch five to seven times and score no hits. Even though their armament is virtually identical. It's the same on their ships. If sonar is on, all submarines are visible. If we don't see anyone, they can't see us. I think the Iranian navy often operates at this level.
              1. +6
                16 March 2026 10: 59
                Quote: multicaat
                Unfortunately,

                Unfortunately, many tend to exaggerate the qualifications of the military and the IRGC. Although historically, they have never demonstrated mastery of tactics and strategy. Neither in Iraq nor in Syria. The very fact that they surrendered their skies without resistance from day one suggests that the outcome of the war will depend on the will of their opponents. Their only bet is to raise the price of oil, and then... What then? Trump will jump ship? And Israel? It couldn't care less; it will continue bombing.
                1. VlK
                  +4
                  16 March 2026 11: 18
                  Although historically they have never demonstrated mastery of tactics and strategy, neither in Iraq nor in Syria.

                  One gets the feeling that the entire system's effectiveness rested on one outstanding individual—K. Soleimani, the architect of this system, was forced out—and everything gradually went downhill. On the role of personality in history...
                2. -1
                  17 March 2026 09: 52
                  Quote: Puncher
                  The very fact that they gave up their sky without resistance from the very first day speaks of that

                  that they have a plan that they are acting on.
                  Some active air resistance is possible, but firstly, it's very expensive; secondly, it's a passive defense that will definitely not win anything; and thirdly, the US, since Vietnam, has been perfecting tactics and technology for penetrating such defenses, while also possessing advanced technology and overwhelming numerical superiority. I believe Iran has approached the issue rationally, focusing on other, more effective aspects. The only thing I disagree with in their plan is the frankly strange organization of the forward air defense line. In my opinion, they should have relied much more heavily on passive guidance systems, which cannot be suppressed or detected from a distance, and also partially formed the launchers from mobile, light chassis that are easy to camouflage and with a minimum of metal. In this case, the attacking side would have practically lost the ability to use munitions like Maverick and TOW missiles with impunity; long-range munitions and missiles, as well as drones, would remain. This doesn't completely solve the problem, but the intensity of strikes would have been halved.
        3. 0
          16 March 2026 20: 12
          I agree, this is all speculation on the given topic.
    2. + 29
      16 March 2026 05: 59
      Yeah. I always think about goodwill gestures and all sorts of grain deals, too. And defenseless naval ships.
      If you start a war, keep fighting.
      The most important humanism in war is to end it as quickly as possible. (C)
      What would the situation have been like, for example, if, at the beginning of our Northern Military District, we had simply declared that there would be no shipping to or from Odessa? And then sunk a dozen floating craft of all sizes there? Would it have helped?
      It's clear that destroying the Iranian fleet (akin to massacring the innocents) won't help the Americans in any way. But the approach itself is correct. And there's no arguing with that.
      1. + 12
        16 March 2026 06: 08
        The most important humanism in war is to end it as quickly as possible.
        good
        1. + 10
          16 March 2026 06: 57
          Quote: Gardamir
          - finish it as quickly as possible.
          He needs to finish the sentence - he will finish it as quickly as possible. complete victoryIf it's just faster, especially since "we haven't even started yet," there will be a fixed match in Istanbul, where they cheated again.
          1. +4
            16 March 2026 09: 21
            That's roughly what A. V. Suvorov said. Questions for him.
      2. + 15
        16 March 2026 11: 10
        So, from the very first days, our "Makarovs" were also shouting from every iron that the 404th didn't even have any lifeboats left, and as a result, all the Black Sea Fleet's first-rank ships were at the bottom, the fleet was trapped in the bay, and the tankers were defenseless. Now we're puffing out our cheeks and smearing bloody snot from a broken patella across our cheeks, expressing concerns and "the response will be terrible" to the abuses being perpetrated against our ships around the world. The whole point here is that the Persians were perfectly aware of their fleet's capabilities and had no illusions, and therefore didn't waste resources. Our hucksters from the decrepit vertical never admit mistakes, which means they aren't corrected. They came not to govern, but to rule, and they're only after the buck.
        1. +5
          16 March 2026 19: 48
          Yeah, right. The article is in some ways directly about our Black Sea Fleet. There's nothing more to add.
      3. 0
        16 March 2026 20: 19
        What would the situation have looked like, for example, if at the beginning of our NVO it had simply been announced that there would be no shipping to or from Odessa?
        That's what they announced. And in the summer, when the only refinery was destroyed, Ukraine's road transport ground to a halt. But Guterres promised to unblock our grain exports, and that was it—the client lost everything. Then they complained that we'd been deceived and that nothing had been done.
  4. +8
    16 March 2026 05: 18
    It's better to learn from the mistakes of others, but VIL also said: "Our slogan should be one - to learn military affairs the real way"... So far, the training is getting a C...
  5. ayk
    + 16
    16 March 2026 05: 23
    No one probably thought the Iranian navy would put up a decent fight against the US Navy. It wasn't designed for that. So what was it built for? Probably to fight other roughly equal Persian Gulf navies. Another question is why they didn't even try? Maybe they were simply saving their crews. If the ships were moored and sank right there, and the crews were on shore.
    1. +4
      16 March 2026 19: 52
      Our fleet, it turns out, isn't designed for active operations either. If the Ukrainians have wrecked it, NATO won't even notice. Our naval expert, Klimov, wrote here a long time ago that our fleet's main purpose is to cover missile submarines until they launch.
      1. ayk
        +3
        17 March 2026 03: 13
        That's not true at all. Submarines are underwater because they operate covertly. They need cover, but it's of a different nature. Against NATO, it's primarily the Northern and Pacific Fleets, which have strategic missile-carrying submarines.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. +9
    16 March 2026 05: 37
    The unteachable are still unable to draw conclusions from the experiences of others.
  8. + 17
    16 March 2026 05: 54
    Someone always talks about the uselessness of aircraft carriers. And then, lo and behold... the ships' air defenses are weak. So, most navies can't counter an aircraft with anything.
    And yet another thing that's so surprising is the Americans' constant combat readiness. It's completely beyond the pale.
    I've written here many times about the boom nets at American bases. Is this combat readiness? Or not? What are they afraid of in Norfolk?
    1. -8
      16 March 2026 07: 30
      Quote: MCmaximus
      And most fleets can't do anything against the aircraft.
      And not just an airplane, but also a cruise missile with drones. "Abraham Lincoln" won't let him lie. wink
      1. + 10
        16 March 2026 09: 24
        There's absolutely zero evidence of this so far. But the sinking of the Iranian fleet is a fact. And it's clear that this fleet was absolutely powerless against JUST ONE carrier force.
        And don't write anything about drones yet. They won't even make it to the aircraft carrier.
        1. -3
          16 March 2026 20: 36
          This fleet was absolutely unable to counteract JUST ONE aircraft carrier group
          But he could have tried to unleash a full barrage. Our proud Mahmoud won't surrender to the enemy, no one wants mercy! At the American bases in the Gulf, at pre-selected targets. But as it is, the Lebanese anti-ship missiles burned up in storage and that's it. After all, money was spent, some engineers and workers worked hard...
      2. +2
        17 March 2026 04: 29
        Hasn't the Lincoln been sunk three times already? And each time they raise it from the bottom... How stubborn they are. wassat
    2. +5
      16 March 2026 11: 21
      Quote: MCmaximus
      Someone always talks about the uselessness of aircraft carriers. And then, lo and behold... the ships' air defenses are weak.

      Please tell me how the situation would have developed if Iran had an aircraft carrier with a displacement of 100,000 tons and an air wing of 70-80 aircraft. Would that have helped Iran much?
      1. +4
        16 March 2026 16: 53
        I don't think it would have helped many people. Because the Americans had real experience using aircraft carriers. The Japanese and, to a lesser extent, the British, still had relatively valuable experience.
        With our system, where aviation is an appendage of the navy, it won't work anyway. Our guys have no idea why a navy is even needed, and there's no point in even talking about aviation.
        But if you don’t have aircraft carriers, then you will never have any experience.
        1. +3
          16 March 2026 21: 34
          It’s even worse because our air force and navy are appendages of the ground forces.

          There is no sensible strategy for using the fleet - so it is "shooting at targets" in the North Sea - where it is safer, to no avail, while all over the planet our ships, or ships with our cargo, are being sunk, robbed and captured.

          The Air Force essentially only provides air support to the Ground Forces, while the destruction of targets deep within Ukrainian territory is carried out solely by long-range precision weapons.

          The US may not have complete control over Iran's airspace, but its strategists have practiced bunker buster bombs against nuclear facilities, while our tactical aircraft don't even venture beyond the airspace.

          And the US Air Force has still had no losses, except for drones and friendly fire, and a dozen drones is nothing.
          1. -1
            17 March 2026 20: 36
            It was especially funny how, in 2022, they bragged about hitting some Kraken's barracks with a Kalibr. There were no other concerns about where to launch such a missile. Someone ordered this target, after all. It leaves a feeling of complete incomprehension. Perhaps only for training purposes—to fire at something other than a firing range.
            1. 0
              19 March 2026 12: 15
              Should we ignore the Kraken Barracks and not use Calibers on them?
          2. 0
            23 March 2026 23: 52
            The Air Force essentially only provides air support to the Ground Forces, while the destruction of targets deep within Ukrainian territory is carried out solely by long-range precision weapons.
            And who fires these long- and short-range weapons? The Aerospace Forces, of course.
  9. + 20
    16 March 2026 06: 04
    Rain is wet, water is liquid, and the wind is blowing. That's the gist of the article. Yes, the corvette would have been better off interned in India or Pakistan. But it still remains a warship, and its crew are still sailors and combatants. There's no honor in sinking a corvette like that, but it's not a war crime, and comparing it to the sinking of the Lusitania is absurd.
    As for the war games, well, that was also a form of training. Whether they were useful? I don't know, as we don't have access to real data. We don't know the level of training of the crews who participated in the games—before and after. We don't know how these crews performed in the war games. The fact that army games ceased to be held with the start of the war games doesn't mean they were useless; it's an indication that the state's priorities have changed. It's obvious that there are many useful things that a state lacks the funds for in a war situation, since the resources of ANY state (even one that can print dollars without control) are finite and scarce. And it wasn't Belousov who consigned the army games to oblivion, but Shoigu, as they haven't been held since 2022, even though Shoigu served as Minister of Defense until May 2024.
    Overall, the article's conclusions are reasonable. My criticism concerns two assertions for which no evidence is provided, and excluding them would not change the essence of the article.
  10. +6
    16 March 2026 06: 15
    The key here is simply to shoot down any reconnaissance aircraft or drones over your own skies or near your borders. Especially when it's not a plane or drone from a neighboring country, but from a country that's basically halfway around the world. I mean, a British military reconnaissance aircraft shouldn't fly beyond its borders—otherwise, it's a form of aggression. Even more so for the US. Ban military bases in other countries. Or let them become part of the state of the country that wants to set up a base there. Because even a diplomatic mission is essentially someone else's intelligence service in your own backyard. They're visiting, seeing, hearing, and it will all be used against you. So, tell them all to go to hell. And Iran is clearly saying so. And to what I said in other comments (and that's not my opinion), the US will get out of the Middle East. They set up bases, burned a bunch of weapons—that's your protection from an audit. And no one will say they left the weapons for locals, like in Afghanistan. In the process, they've set everyone against each other. The fact that we haven't recaptured the US and Israeli air defenses is practically a loss—they'll just offer new ones later for a different price. But it's more likely that we'll profit from this than the US. The navy has long since become just a banner—more money is spent on it than it actually delivers. Like aircraft—making thousands isn't feasible given the complexity, and the small number is already a huge expense. That's why they don't engage in head-on combat. It's just that—they don't have enough equipment for three days of fighting. Or even a day. Knocking them down is always a far greater option. As for sinking an aircraft carrier—if there's an order, no air defense can help there. And the Persians—they're essentially landlubbers. And when a rat is cornered, it can chew through concrete...
  11. + 21
    16 March 2026 06: 44
    Russia (and Ukraine could have done the same, if it had a navy)
    If Ukraine had a navy... Why doesn't our fleet dominate the Black Sea, instead leaving Sevastopol for Novorossiysk? Why didn't the landing and capture of Odessa and Mykolaiv follow the declaration of the Central Military District? It's like our leader, in his menacing speech at the start of the Central Military District, wanted to carry out "denazification" and "demilitarization." The element of surprise was lost, the preemptive strike was ineptly squandered, and instead of dominance on the battlefield and an ultimatum to the Kyiv regime, negotiations in Istanbul... I can't imagine how Stalin would have chosen to negotiate with Hitler instead of the complete and unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany in 1945. They'll say "Berlin in 2022" was a long way off, but what were they even counting on, especially since "we haven't even started yet." It's already been five years; it's high time to begin and finish victoriously on the Polish border, then we could talk about achieving the objectives of the Special Military Operations. A strange military operation...
    1. +2
      16 March 2026 10: 45
      Quote: Per se.
      Russia (and Ukraine could have done the same, if it had a navy)
      If Ukraine had a navy... Why doesn't our fleet dominate the Black Sea, instead leaving Sevastopol for Novorossiysk? Why didn't the landing and capture of Odessa and Mykolaiv follow the declaration of the Central Military District? It's like our leader, in his menacing speech at the start of the Central Military District, wanted to carry out "denazification" and "demilitarization." The element of surprise was lost, the preemptive strike was ineptly squandered, and instead of dominance on the battlefield and an ultimatum to the Kyiv regime, negotiations in Istanbul... I can't imagine how Stalin would have chosen to negotiate with Hitler instead of the complete and unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany in 1945. They'll say "Berlin in 2022" was a long way off, but what were they even counting on, especially since "we haven't even started yet." It's already been five years; it's high time to begin and finish victoriously on the Polish border, then we could talk about achieving the objectives of the Special Military Operations. A strange military operation...

      The USSR probed the conditions under which Germany might cease its aggression. But when Germany made it clear it was not interested, and the anti-Hitler coalition formed, the question was dropped.
      1. +5
        16 March 2026 12: 35
        Quote: Panin (Michman)
        The USSR probed the conditions under which Germany could cease its aggression.
        Are you talking about 1941, when the Germans approached Moscow? I was talking about 1945. Let's put it another way: when the Germans had calculated everything and were already pushing towards the Volga, "Germany made it clear it wasn't interested." That's right; Hitler wouldn't have immediately signed a deal in Istanbul. The winner dictates the terms. You want to justify our difficulties, but who created them? Who gave the Banderites an eight-year head start, pumped up the Ukrainian Armed Forces, purge pro-Russian activists, and created fortified areas? Finally, how did we prepare for these years for the invasion, which, thanks to Poroshenko's prior recognition of Ukraine's territorial integrity, became aggression according to international norms, to the delight of the West? Don't justify those who, at the very least, will be held accountable by history.
        1. 0
          19 March 2026 12: 22
          History doesn’t ask Stalin why he returned Bialystok to Poland, gave Vilnius to Lithuania, and took so little from Finland in 1944?
    2. +2
      16 March 2026 13: 04
      Quote: Per se.
      I can't imagine how Stalin would...

      Having mentioned Comrade Stalin, and relying, for example, on your view of the military successes of the Soviet Black Sea Fleet in the Great Patriotic War, did you decide to speak out? Or, in general, about great strategists of the past and present?

      In general, Comrade Stalin, having agreed with the potential aggressor on mutual non-aggression in August 1939, "did not provoke" and "did not yield to provocations" until June 22, 1941—as a result, he allowed Nazi Germany to launch a surprise attack on the USSR. Although, as they say, Soviet military science had warned in advance:

      "...the future war must begin with a sudden (without a declaration of war) invasion of enemy territory" Ogorodnikov F. "Fortresses and border fortifications in a future war (according to German views)" "Red Star" 02/8/1936

      "At the same time, the old tradition is discarded, according to which it is necessary to warn before striking. War is not declared at all. It simply begins with armed forces deployed in advance." Isserson G. "New Forms of Struggle" Moscow, 1940

      If you're specifically referring to the Black Sea Fleet, after the loss of the leader Kharkov and the destroyers Besposhchadny and Sposobny in a single day to German air strikes on October 6, 1943, the Supreme Command Headquarters declared the Black Sea Fleet's combat core incapable of combat, and the Black Sea Fleet's large surface combat ships no longer participated in combat operations until the end of the war.

      https://взглядизпрошлого.рф/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/morskie-dramy-vtoroj-mirovoj-shigin-v.v..pdf

      Стр. 197

      "...On October 11, 1943, the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief gave the following preliminary instructions to the commander of the North Caucasian Front and the People's Commissar of the Navy: "According to the information received, the operation of the Black Sea Fleet on October 6, which ended in failure,
      The operation, which resulted in unnecessary loss of life and the loss of three large warships, was carried out without the knowledge of the commander of the North Caucasus Front, despite the fact that the fleet was operationally subordinate to him.

      The Supreme High Command orders:
      1. The Commander of the Black Sea Fleet must coordinate all planned fleet operations with the Commander of the North Caucasus Front and not conduct any operations without his consent;
      2. The main forces of the fleet shall be used to support the combat operations of the ground forces. Long-range operations of large surface forces of the fleet shall be carried out only with the permission of the Supreme Headquarters.
      Commander-in-Chief;
      3. The commander of the North Caucasus Front shall be assigned responsibility for the combat use of the Black Sea Fleet."

      The document was astonishing! From now on, naval commanders were strictly forbidden from undertaking anything without receiving the go-ahead from the army command. With this directive, Headquarters documented
      confirmed the complete military incompetence of the Black Sea Fleet leadership, admitting that the command of the North Caucasus Front is more knowledgeable and professional in maritime affairs than
      Admirals. This has never happened before in the entire history of Russia! In the midst of the most terrible and bloody war in the history of our country, the most powerful naval unit was declared incapable of combat and placed in reserve—that is, simply put, removed from the battlefield due to its
      uselessness.

      In a special decree of the State Defense Committee, No. 5278, dated March 2, 1944, all the mistakes made during the actions of this detachment, which led to the destruction of three ships valuable to the fleet, were thoroughly analyzed. Severe disciplinary sanctions were imposed on a number of senior and higher officers personally responsible for the organization of the actions of the lost ships. This final sortie marked the end of active combat operations by the Black Sea Fleet squadron's ships, not only in the 1943 campaign, but also throughout the subsequent course of the Great Patriotic War. By decision of the Supreme Command Headquarters, the Black Sea Fleet ships were transferred to the Headquarters reserve. Thus, the combat operations of the Black Sea Fleet's surface ships at sea should be considered
      enemy communications in the northeastern part of the Black Sea were unsuccessful."
      1. VlK
        -1
        16 March 2026 13: 45
        If you're specifically referring to the Black Sea Fleet, after the loss of the leader Kharkov and the destroyers Besposhchadny and Sposobny in a single day to German air strikes on October 6, 1943, the Supreme Command Headquarters declared the Black Sea Fleet's combat core incapable of combat, and the Black Sea Fleet's large surface combat ships no longer participated in combat operations until the end of the war.

        The document was astonishing! From now on, naval commanders were strictly forbidden from undertaking anything without receiving the go-ahead from the army command. With this directive, Headquarters documented
        confirmed the complete military incompetence of the Black Sea Fleet leadership, admitting that the command of the North Caucasus Front is more knowledgeable and professional in maritime affairs than
        Admirals. This has never happened before in the entire history of Russia! In the midst of the most terrible and bloody war in the history of our country, the most powerful naval unit was declared incapable of combat and placed in reserve—that is, simply put, removed from the battlefield due to its
        uselessness.

        There's nothing of the sort in the quote you provided, neither about unprofessionalism nor about incompetence; those are someone's independent conclusions based on personal speculation. However, an unbiased look reveals that, given the extremely limited naval force remaining by mid-war, with its equipment severely depleted and without the ability to replenish it with new units, the fleet was simply forbidden from wasting time on individual operations to generate activity for the primary task at the time—supporting the operations of the Primorsky flag on the ground front. Furthermore, Comrade Stalin understood perfectly well that we would be unable to even replenish the fleet immediately after the end of hostilities, and he apparently considered it geopolitically incorrect to be left after victory without a fleet in the Black Sea, lost during active naval operations (there is no war without losses), which were of no decisive significance—somehow defending one's position against one's coalition partners when dividing up the gains of victory.
        1. +2
          16 March 2026 17: 13
          Quote: VlK
          There is nothing like that in the quote you provided, neither about unprofessionalism nor about incompetence, these are already someone’s independent conclusions based on personal speculation.

          You can find any other printed source mentioning this historical episode and its consequences for the Black Sea Fleet's combat performance in WWII. If this source mentions the high professionalism of the Black Sea Fleet's leadership and the fact that, after the aforementioned tragic episode with the loss of the leader and two destroyers, as well as nearly eight hundred crew members, large Black Sea Fleet surface combat ships successfully prevented the evacuation of Nazi and Romanian troops from Crimea by sea in a series of naval operations as early as 1944, please provide citations. I believe many participants in this discussion will be interested in these citations.
          From an unbiased perspective, it is quite obvious that in the conditions of the extremely limited naval force that had survived to the middle of the war, with its equipment resources severely worn out, and without the possibility of replenishing it with new units

          You should really study this operation and understand how it turned out that the raid was planned so that during daylight hours, the detachment of ships was exposed for many hours to slow-moving Ju-87s, completely obsolete by the late autumn of 1943. These Ju-87s, in groups of 8 to 14 aircraft—by evening, 24 Ju-87s without fighter cover—bombed the ships, so to speak, in firing range conditions. And this despite the fact that the Black Sea Fleet command had every opportunity to organize sufficient fighter cover for the detachment of ships during the raid.

          You should also study how the anti-aircraft armament of British and US Navy destroyers was enhanced from 1940/1941 to the fall of 1943. Then, understand why the Soviet Navy command, while able to receive numerous 40mm Bofors guns, including multi-barreled versions, and 20mm Oerlikons, suitable for installation literally anywhere, on the decks of large warships through Lend-Lease, sent the leader Kharkov and the destroyers Besposhchadny and Sposobny on their final combat mission with such a technically weak anti-aircraft artillery armament suitable for countering dive bombers. Specifically, each of the ships involved in the raid and those lost carried 5-7 single-barrel 37mm 70-K air-cooled anti-aircraft guns. And of course, with the large-caliber anti-aircraft machine guns on the decks of these ships, which were practically useless at that time (and this despite the possibility of replacing these machine guns with 20 mm Oerlikons long ago).

          Attached is a page from the book: A.V. Platonov "Air Defense of the Naval Forces 1941-1945". I recommend it.

          Perhaps, after studying the issue more thoroughly, you'll be less inclined to point out that "everything was different under Stalin." It wasn't.

          After the Battle of Sinop, which took place almost 100 years before Stalin's death, the Russian Navy no longer demonstrated significant success in naval warfare. It was forever lagging behind "new forms of warfare."

          P.S. Those who do NOT want to learn from their past mistakes are forced to repeat them again and again.
        2. +2
          16 March 2026 17: 31
          I'll also add the following page from A.V. Platonov's book, "Air Defense of the Fleet Forces 1941-1945." St. Petersburg: Gangut Publishing and Printing Complex, 2010. This will allow you to better understand the author's conclusions on this episode. I'd be interested in receiving scans of the pages on the Soviet Navy's air defense in 1941-1945, which draw radically different conclusions.
      2. -1
        16 March 2026 18: 07
        Quote: AlexanderA
        In general, Comrade Stalin, having agreed with the potential aggressor on mutual non-aggression in August 1939, "did not provoke" and "did not yield to provocations" until June 22, 1941—as a result, he allowed Nazi Germany to launch a surprise attack on the USSR. Although, as they say, Soviet military science had warned in advance:

        Alexander, don't spout nonsense, it's painful. The USSR had a plan in place to cover its borders in the event of a sudden declaration of war, and it was even put into effect—which is why our border district troops were almost at wartime strength. The only thing left to do was detect a massive German troop transfer to the state border, and, if such a transfer were underway, deploy into battle formations before the Germans had even concentrated, which would take several days, preempt the Germans' deployment, and launch a preemptive strike.
        This would have allowed the approaching fascists to be defeated piecemeal and would have gained time for the mobilization of the Red Army.
        In short, Stalin was actually prepared, but the intelligence service missed the mark. Simply put, they discovered the German concentration when they had deployed over 80 divisions. There were isolated signals that the Germans were redeploying troops, but they were drowned out by the mass of signals indicating that the Germans had only light cover on their eastern borders. In defense of the intelligence service, one can only say that the Germans already had a mobilized army after the war with France and did not demobilize it, so they could redeploy the main forces of the Wehrmacht to the eastern border much faster than they would have done with mobilization.
        Ultimately, the USSR was simply too late to implement its plan—an attempt to deploy divisions from the border districts would have provoked an immediate attack. Stalin, however, was once again misled by intelligence, which estimated the Wehrmacht to be almost twice as strong as it actually was. Therefore, Stalin, believing that at most half the Wehrmacht was concentrated in the east, hoped that there would be no attack in 41.
        If you don’t even know these basics, why are you writing?
        1. +2
          16 March 2026 21: 12
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Alexander, don't talk nonsense, it hurts her.

          Andrey, avoid the flowery demagogic phrases and write to the point.
          The USSR had a plan for covering its borders in the event of a sudden declaration of war, and it was even put into effect - which is why the troops in our border districts were staffed almost to their wartime levels.

          Study how the plan to cover the mobilization and deployment of troops for the first operation of the war differs from the plan for the first strategic operation of the war. Domestic district plans for covering deployment that existed at the beginning of the war did not foresee the German Armed Forces beginning the war with "pre-deployed armed forces" (S. G. Isserson).

          By May 1941, the Red Army could not outpace the German Armed Forces in mobilization and deployment (under normal conditions) for two banal reasons:

          1. Having unleashed the war on September 1, 1939, which was later recognized as the Second World War, the German Armed Forces did not stop this war and by the summer of 1941 they were fully mobilized, numbering over 7,2 million military personnel.

          2. The Soviet Armed Forces, unable to preempt the already mobilized German Armed Forces in mobilization, were even less capable of preempting the German Armed Forces in deploying along the state border for the first strategic operation of the war. Simply put, the rail network of a still-potential enemy could only send 600 train trains per day to our western border, while our rail network in the western regions of the USSR only allowed for 300 train trains per day.

          And further, I recommend you take a look at A. Svechin’s book “Strategy”:

          "The first to be fully armed on the battlefield is the attacker. Full deployment requires immediate use: otherwise, we must expect the enemy to direct his attacks at the most sensitive points of our grouping (for example, on the flanks). An indecisive, wavering offensive, halted at critical moments, will give the enemy the most favorable chances. Such was the invasion of Samsonov's army into East Prussia. We anticipated the Germans in deployment, but, in essence, both the supply conditions of the Russian corps and the need to await Rennenkampf's approach,
          and the consolidation of the 1st Army Corps in the immediate area north of Mława required a temporary shift to pursuing a negative objective and the adoption of a corresponding, echeloned grouping. This was not realized, and therefore the Samsonov Operation can be characterized as a defense within an offensive grouping, and such a defense must be avoided at all costs."

          After September 1, 1939, it was desirable, and after the demobilization of the Red Army at the end of the "Polish campaign of the Red Army" of 1939, it was simply necessary, that the first strategic operation of the war against Germany should have been planned as a strategic defensive operation.

          Well, under normal conditions, the USSR Armed Forces did not have time to preempt the already mobilized German Armed Forces in mobilization and deployment in the strategic theater of operations, and that’s all there is to it.

          Unfortunately, in both 1940 and 1941, the Red Army's first strategic operation in the Western theater of military operations continued to be planned as an offensive one, with a corresponding deployment of armed forces along the state border itself. After all:

          "Our pursuit of a positive goal in the operation and the desire to use surprise to achieve the latter leads us to the deployment of our forces and resources, which receives
          broad development. Conversely, pursuing a negative goal will force us to delay the completion of the deployment in order to preserve the ability to concentrate efforts on the areas that will prove most important as the action progresses. In the first case, the group advances toward the front; in the second, it is more echeloned in depth."

          This approach might have worked if the Red Army had begun mobilization and deployment for the first strategic operation of the war against Germany (and its allies) when a significant portion of the German ground forces were tied up in an operation in another theater. For example, such an approach would have worked in May-June 1940, when the German Ground Forces were tied up in the "Battle of France." It would have partially worked even in April 1941, when a significant portion of the German Ground Forces' mobile units were tied up in the operation against Yugoslavia. However, by May 1941, relying on the first strategic offensive operation of the war was out of the question. The Red Army was unable to mobilize and deploy for it.

          Unfortunately, it was in May that the document "Considerations for a plan for the strategic deployment of the Soviet Union's forces in the event of war with Germany and its allies" was compiled, containing the following provision:

          "...Considering that Germany currently keeps its army mobilized, with its rear deployed, it has the ability to forestall our deployment and launch a surprise attack. To prevent this and defeat the German army, I consider it imperative that the German High Command not take the initiative under any circumstances. We must forestall the enemy's deployment and attack the German army while it is still in the deployment phase and has not yet had time to organize a front and coordinate its branches of service..."

          These "Considerations" were not realistic. I repeat, it was no longer possible to preempt the enemy's mobilization and deployment for the first strategic operation of the war. Absolutely impossible. Even with the start of secret mobilization in the form of "Large Training Camps" and the secret deployment of rifle corps from the Special Western Districts, located deep in the frontier, to the western border, which began on June 12, 1941:

          "...To increase the combat readiness of the district's troops, by July 1, 1941, all deep divisions and corps headquarters with corps units are to be transferred closer to the state border to new camps, in accordance with the attached map... Troop movements are to be kept completely secret.
          Conduct the march with tactical exercises, at night. Withdraw all transportable supplies of ammunition, fuel, and lubricants with the troops. Leave a strictly necessary minimum number of troops to guard winter quarters, primarily those unfit for the march due to health reasons.
          Do not take families. The order must be delivered by courier by July 1, 1941."

          Thus, the catastrophe of the summer of 1941 was caused not only by the mistake of Comrade Stalin, who considered Hitler a sane adversary who, after the catastrophic experience of the First World War for Germany, would not unprovokedly unleash a war on two fronts, but also by the mistake of the Soviet General Staff, whose operational department, even in May 1941, believed that it was still possible to preempt the German Armed Forces in deploying for war in the strategic theater.
          In general, Stalin was just ready, but the intelligence service slept through it.

          See above. Preempting the German Armed Forces, already fully mobilized since 1939, from mobilizing and deploying for war along our western border and the Germans' eastern border would have been impossible under normal circumstances. Only under conditions where the German ground forces were tied down by some large-scale strategic operation in another theater of war: the "Battle of France," or, to a lesser extent, the crushing of Yugoslavia... or a hypothetical landing on the British Isles. Having missed favorable moments for entering the war during the "Battle of France" and the April 1941 blitzkrieg in Yugoslavia, the only hope was a German landing on the British Isles. And that, apparently, was what they were hoping for. A last resort, so to speak. If the Soviet Armed Forces had missed this moment in the summer of 1941 (if the German Armed Forces had actually captured the British mainland in the summer of 1941), then by the following year, 1942, the USSR would have been left alone to await the inevitable clash with the "Thousand-Year Reich" that had engulfed all of Europe in the West and that same "Reich's" aggressive ally, Imperial Japan, in the East—that is, in a situation of inevitable strategic catastrophe in a war on two fronts. Only this time, not for Germany, but for the USSR.

          However, this is, so to speak, a subjunctive mood, which real history does not know, and which graduates of historical and archival institutes cannot admit even in their most seditious thoughts. After all, they study real history, not hypothetical. Hypothetical history is for prognosticators, who need to know not only real history, but also probable historical alternatives.
          If you don’t even know these basics, why are you writing?

          I'm almost certain you're ignorant of a huge number of basics on this subject. For example, you haven't read A. Svechin's "Strategy" and G. Isserson's "New Forms of Struggle," the "Proceedings of the Meeting of the Red Army's Supreme Leadership Staff, December 23-31, 1940," or M. Meltyukhova's historical study "Stalin's Missed Chance: The Soviet Union and the Struggle for Europe: 1939-1941."

          But I am certainly charmed by your swagger.
          1. +1
            19 March 2026 13: 42
            Again, a lot of words.
            Quote: AlexanderA
            Domestic district plans for covering deployment that existed at the beginning of the war did not foresee that the German Armed Forces would begin the war with “pre-deployed armed forces” (C) G. Isserson.

            This is perhaps the only thing you've written on the topic. This is precisely why such a deployment should have been forestalled, a task that was entrusted to intelligence. Read my comment below.
            1. -1
              19 March 2026 15: 31
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Again, a lot of words.

              Is it difficult for you to write more than a few lines on the topic?
              This is perhaps the only thing you've written on the topic. This is precisely why such a deployment should have been forestalled, a task that was entrusted to intelligence.

              It is a pity that after reading what I wrote, you still did not understand that the USSR Armed Forces could have forestalled the already mobilized German Armed Forces in completing their deployment for the first strategic operation of the war along the new western border of the USSR only if a significant part of the German Ground Forces had been tied up in a strategic operation in another theater of war at the beginning of the attempt at such a preemption.

              Otherwise, it would have been technically impossible to preempt the German Armed Forces from deploying.

              Intelligence was tasked with uncovering enemy plans and determining the moment when such plans would begin to be implemented, but given the enemy's strategic camouflage and disinformation measures, the likelihood of intelligence successfully solving these tasks was extremely low.

              Even if the reconnaissance had been successful, the Soviet response to the discovery of the covert strategic deployment of enemy forces for the war against the USSR would have merely forced the enemy to accelerate the completion of the deployment for the war with the USSR, moving to its open phase with 600 uncamouflaged railway echelons of troops sent to the border per day.

              In that case, we certainly would not have had time to complete the deployment of our armed forces for the first strategic operation of the war along the new state border before the enemy, and consequently the enemy would have launched its strategic offensive first, at the moment when the Red Army would have been "in the deployment phase and had not yet had time to organize the front and the interaction of its branches of the armed forces" (as happened in real history).

              The operational-strategic solution to this problem—planning the first strategic operation of the war as defensive, abandoning the deployment along the state border for an offensive operation and the inevitable defense in an offensive group of forces with the start of the war—was never adopted.

              This decision was not made because another decision was made - not to wait until, during the summer campaign of 1941, the German Armed Forces landed on the British Isles, captured the British metropolis and thereby removed the British Empire from the war, but to enter the World War themselves at the moment when a significant part of the German Armed Forces would be tied up in a large-scale, now not only air, but also ground "Battle of Britain".

              Alas, Hitler had other plans for the summer of 1941. "If Russia is defeated, England's last hope will be taken away, and then Germany will dominate Europe and the Balkans."

              The parties carried out a secret deployment of armed forces for war with each other, while being deceived about the real plans of the enemy and their implementation.

              The Soviet plan for a war with Germany, with the first strategic operation of the war having an offensive character, would have been feasible only if the German Armed Forces had actually landed on the British Isles during the summer campaign of 1941.

              The German plan to continue the world war by unleashing a war on two fronts in order to quickly defeat the USSR and “deprive England of its last hope” would have been realistic if it had actually been possible to defeat the USSR during the summer campaign of 1941.

              In the historical reality of 1941, neither war plan was realistic.

              As a result of the unexpected German invasion on June 22, 1941, "with pre-deployed armed forces," the USSR experienced the gravest military catastrophe of 1941, and Nazi Germany, at the behest of Hitler, having unleashed a war on two fronts, signed its own death warrant.
              1. +1
                19 March 2026 16: 06
                Quote: AlexanderA
                Is it difficult for you to write more than a few lines on the topic?

                Unlike you, a few words are enough for me to formulate my thoughts. For you, all the words in the world are not enough.
                Quote: AlexanderA
                In that case, we certainly would not have had time to complete the deployment of our armed forces for the first strategic operation of the war along the new state border before the enemy, and consequently the enemy would have launched its strategic offensive first.

                Quote: AlexanderA
                The operational-strategic solution to this problem is to plan the first strategic operation of the war as defensive, and to abandon the deployment along the state border for an offensive operation.

                You're now, without the necessary knowledge, making a bunch of assumptions based on Meltyukhov's assumptions, if I remember correctly, although I could be wrong. I read all this a long time ago and I'm already getting confused about Meltyukhov, Solonin, and so on.
                So, you're writing utter nonsense. If you had even the slightest understanding of military affairs, you would have realized that any "defensive" operation was inherently untenable and would have worsened the USSR's position relative to the plan for a preemptive counteroffensive with limited forces.
                But you couldn't even grasp the goals and objectives of the existing plans. What good are Svechin and the others if you couldn't figure out the basics?
                1. -1
                  19 March 2026 16: 53
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Unlike you, a few words are enough for me to formulate my thoughts.

                  I'm happy for you. I sympathize with those who write books of five hundred pages or more. You could probably express all their thoughts in just a few pages, which the average reader of today's post-book world can handle. You are an author of today. And they are outdated. wink
                  Now, without possessing the necessary knowledge, you are issuing a set of assumptions, if my memory serves Meltyukhov, although I could be wrong here.

                  Have you read Meltyukhov's book carefully? The fourth or fifth edition was published in 2021. It's a deluxe edition. 624 pages on good paper. I have the first edition from 2000. It's a shame I didn't get around to getting it signed by the author. Try reading it carefully. You might learn something new.

                  I have enough knowledge to notice some errors in Meltyukhov’s book, in its first edition.
                  I read all this a long time ago and I’m already confused about where Meltyukhov is, where Solonin is, etc.

                  "Everything was mixed up in the Oblonsky house." If you can't distinguish between the historical works of Doctor of Historical Sciences M.I. Meltyukhov and the journalism of M.S. Solonin, I can only sympathize with you.
                  So, you are writing complete nonsense.

                  You're "arguing" like a teenager. However, I already wrote to you about this.
                  If you had even a little understanding of military affairs, you would have realized that any “defensive” operation was a losing one by definition and led to a worsening of the USSR’s position.


                  From the draft plan for Operation Ost, developed by the Chief of Staff of the 18th German Army, Major General Marx

                  "Enemy.

                  The Russians will do us no favors by attacking us. We must expect Russian ground forces to resort to defense, with only the air force and naval forces, particularly the submarine fleet, being able to conduct offensive operations. Therefore, Soviet Russia's war effort will consist of joining the blockade (of Germany). For this purpose, a Russian invasion of Romania is likely, aimed at taking away our oil.

                  Therefore, one should expect at least strong Russian air raids on the Romanian oil regions.

                  On the other hand, the Russians will not be able, as in 1812, to shirk any decision on the battlefield. A modern armed force, numbering 100 divisions, cannot abandon its sources of strength. It must be assumed that Russian ground forces will adopt a defensive stance to defend Great Russia and Eastern Ukraine.

                  A good defensive position could be along the Dvina River to Polotsk – the Berezina River – the depths of the Pripyat Marshes – the Zbruch River – the Prut or Dniester River. This line has fortifications from ancient times. A retreat to the Dnieper is also possible. In front of this line, the Russians will presumably only conduct holding battles.


                  So let's write it down: according to Andrey from Chelyabinsk, the Chief of Staff of the 18th German Army, Major General Marx, with his statement: "The Russians will not do us any favors by attacking us. We must count on the Russian ground forces resorting to defense"—he understood nothing about military affairs. wink
                  But you couldn't even grasp the goals and objectives of the existing plans. What good are Svechin and the others if you couldn't figure out the basics?

                  I simply don't understand why I'm wasting my time discussing this matter with you. If someone hasn't even read A. A. Svechin's "Strategy"—a book considered a classic among military historians, scholars, and officers worldwide—then their presumption that they understand anything about Soviet military strategy on the eve of World War II is literally groundless.
                  1. +1
                    19 March 2026 18: 57
                    Quote: AlexanderA
                    I just don’t understand why I’m wasting time communicating with you about this issue.

                    And don't worry. Just take note of what I'm writing to you and go reread your sources in light of what I've told you – maybe then you'll understand something.
                    Quote: AlexanderA
                    If a person hasn’t even read A. A. Svechin’s “Strategy”

                    The voice in your head told you I hadn't read it—as usual, by the way. I read Svechin.
                    Quote: AlexanderA
                    I'm happy for you. I sympathize with those who write books of half a thousand pages or more.

                    What's there to sympathize with? They have a lot of thoughts, and they convey them to the reader. It's practically impossible to convey even a single thought to you—you start spewing out kilograms of texts you haven't understood and, what's more, you use them inappropriately.
                    Quote: AlexanderA
                    "Everything was mixed up in the Oblonsky house." If you can't distinguish between the historical works of Doctor of Historical Sciences M.I. Meltyukhov and the journalism of M.S. Solonin, I can only sympathize with you.

                    Why do I need your feigned sympathy? Yes, I don't remember right now what points Meltyukhov, Solonin, or anyone else made. Well, you can faint and lie down somewhere in a corner...
                    At one time I read Triandafillov and Svechin, and the statutes and documents of that era and a bunch of serious analysis of it, not counting the common things like Tippelskirch, Müller-Hillebrand, Manstein, Halder, Zhukov, Vasilevsky and a bunch of other scary and unfamiliar words.
                    Quote: AlexanderA
                    So let's write it down: according to Andrey from Chelyabinsk, the Chief of Staff of the 18th German Army, Major General Marx, with his statement: "The Russians will not do us any favors by attacking us. We must count on the Russian ground forces resorting to defense"—he understood nothing about military affairs.

                    (yawning) We read the plans of the Red Army and understand that Marx was wrong.
                    1. 0
                      20 March 2026 00: 13
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      And don't worry. Just take note of what I'm writing to you and go reread your sources in light of what I've told you – maybe then you'll understand something.

                      You're simply not familiar with all the sources I've already cited. Your confidence in your own understanding of the historical issue at hand is based solely on your immense self-assurance. It's not for you, who simply hasn't read the sources I've cited, to advise me on rereading them. Do you have any questions about what I've cited? If not, I won't detain you.
                      I read Svechin.

                      Do you have any questions about what I quoted from Svechin? Why does full deployment require immediate use, and why will anyone who is late with deployment, for whatever reason, be forced to defend rather than attack? Do you understand? Why was it necessary to avoid defense at all costs in an incompletely deployed offensive group, particularly after realizing that the enemy is preemptively deploying, immediately withdrawing troops from the Bialystok salient and moving on to pursuing the negative objective of the first strategic operation of the war, forming troop groupings in depth? After reading Svechin, did you understand what pursuing the negative objective of an operation means, or is a clarification required? If you understand everything, I won't disturb you.
                      It’s practically impossible to convey even one thought to you.

                      Try to convey your point with quotes from books or documents. I don't think you'll succeed on the issue raised. You don't know the relevant sources, so you can't cite anything. Rebut me by providing a quote that conveys your point. Or is your idea so novel and original that you can only quote it from your own head?

                      Your thought that I didn't understand the sources with which you are simply not familiar made my evening.
                      Why do I need your feigned sympathy? Yes, I don't remember right now what theses Meltyukhov, Solonin, or anyone else put forward.

                      Forgive me, I haven't read Solonin. I don't read historically illiterate journalism. And as for your lack of memory of Meltyukhov's theses... really, why read them if you can't recall anything later? I'll recount one of Meltyukhov's theses. Maybe you'll remember it this time. Briefly, it can be formulated as follows. The theory of Germany's "preventive war" against the USSR has nothing to do with historical scholarship; it's purely a propaganda thesis by Hitler to justify German aggression. Neither Germany nor the USSR expected an offensive from the enemy, meaning the thesis of preemptive action is inapplicable in this case.

                      As an illustration of this, I quoted General Erich Marcks, the author of the first version of the plan for Germany's military campaign against the USSR, as the German generals were certain that "the Russians will not do us a favor by attacking us."

                      However, I can also quote Colonel Bernhard von Loßberg, the author of the "Loßberg Study," back then: "It seems incredible that the Russians will decide on a large-scale offensive, for example, an invasion of East Prussia and the northern part of the General Government, while the bulk of the German army is not tied down for a long time by military operations on another front."

                      Based on your words, neither E. Marx nor B. Lossberg understood anything about military affairs. If they had understood even a little, they would never have assumed that the "Russians" weren't planning to defend themselves. That the Soviet General Staff had plans for various options for the first strategic offensive operation of the war. For example:

                      "The main forces of the Red Army in the West, depending on the situation, can be deployed either to the south of Brest-Litovsk in order to cut off Germany from the Balkan countries with a powerful blow in the directions of Lublin and Krakow and further on to Breslau (Bratislava) in the first stage of the war, depriving it of its most important economic bases and decisively influencing the Balkan countries in matters of their participation in the war; or to the north of Brest-Litovsk, with the task of defeating the main forces of the German army within
                      East Prussia and take possession of the latter."

                      But there was no plan for the first strategic defensive operation of the war.

                      Naive German non-professionals who knew nothing about military affairs!

                      I haven’t laughed like that for a long time.

                      I've already explained why the Soviet General Staff didn't have a plan for the first strategic defensive operation in the war with Germany. Because Comrade Stalin considered it incredible that Hitler would decide on his own initiative to unleash a two-front war that had already led Germany to disaster more than two decades earlier.

                      E. Marx and B. Lossberg were wrong about Soviet plans. Comrade Stalin was wrong about Hitler's plans. Military matters were a complete mess. But the most curious "misunderstandings" are those who, even 85 years later, still don't understand them because they didn't read the sources, or if they did, they don't remember a single point from them.
                      We read the plans of the Red Army and understand that Marx was wrong.

                      That's what I'm writing: Erich Marcks knew nothing about military affairs. And yet, in 1940, he was tasked with drafting the first draft of a war plan against the USSR.

                      Anyone who's read this far understands why the Nazis were doomed to lose the war. Okay, my cheeks are already sore, that's enough of the joke.
                      1. +1
                        20 March 2026 08: 01
                        You are hopeless. However, this has been clear for a long time.
                        Quote: AlexanderA
                        Based on your words, neither E. Marx nor B. Lossberg understood anything about military affairs.

                        You don't even realize that you're quoting Lossberg completely out of context. You're being told that the preemptive strike was planned to forestall deployment, that is, when the Germans begin to assemble their armies at our border. But you're citing a completely different situation.
                        Quote: AlexanderA
                        It seems unlikely that the Russians would decide on a large-scale offensive, for example, an invasion of East Prussia and the northern part of the General Government, until the bulk of the German army is tied down for a long time by fighting on another front.

                        What nonsense is this? It's obvious we're talking about a period when the Germans aren't planning to attack the USSR and are fighting another country—so there's no deployment near our borders, and, of course, there won't be any preemptive strike.
                        As I have already said, you are not able to comprehend the texts you quote - and here is a great example - with Lossberg.
                        Quote: AlexanderA
                        Refute me, provide a quote that conveys your idea.

                        Yes please, here is your favorite Meltyukhov
                        The widespread belief that the USSR first awaited an enemy attack and only then planned an offensive ignores the fact that in this case, the strategic initiative would have effectively been voluntarily surrendered to the enemy, and Soviet troops would have been placed at a clear disadvantage. Moreover, the transition from defense to offense, so simple in the abstract, is a very complex process, requiring careful and comprehensive preparation, which should have begun with the establishment of four defensive lines 150 kilometers deep. But nothing of the sort was undertaken before the war, and it is hardly worth seriously defending the thesis that the Red Army could have successfully defended itself in unprepared terrain, especially in the face of a surprise enemy attack, which Soviet plans had not envisaged. After all, "repelling aggression was conceived as a means of conducting strategic (frontal) offensive operations in the main axes." Moreover, it's unclear why it's necessary to plan offensive operations if the troops are facing a defensive attack. After all, no one knows how the situation at the front will develop during a defensive operation, where our troops will be, what their condition will be, and so on. Furthermore, anticipating an enemy attack will prevent timely mobilization, which will consequently make it impossible to implement all these plans.
                        It should not be forgotten that in developing the problems of the initial period of war, the attention of Soviet military science throughout the interwar period "was focused on... introducing its main forces into battle before its enemy and under more favorable conditions, reliably seizing the strategic initiative. The solution to this problem could be ensured by: the creation of strong peacetime armies that could form the core of the main forces; the advance comprehensive preparation of infrastructure, especially railways and highways, allowing for the timely deployment of the main forces; detailed development of a plan for mobilization, concentration and operational-strategic deployment; the creation of appropriate bodies to manage these processes; the formation and concentration in the border area of ​​special motorized mechanized and aviation units, designed to disrupt the mobilization and concentration of the enemy's main forces at the beginning of military operations; engineering equipment of the theater of military operations; preparation of the air defense system of the country's territory; organization of coverage of the State border for the unimpeded conduct of mobilization, concentration and deployment of troops; early, covert implementation of partial mobilization and concentration of troops"{1250}. [386] As is known, these measures were consistently carried out in the pre-war period, which once again refutes the version about the defensive intentions of the Soviet military-political leadership.

                        And then - move on to the documents authored by the same Shaposhnikov
                      2. 0
                        21 March 2026 00: 21
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You don't even realize that you are quoting Lossberg completely out of place.

                        You stated that "If you had even a little understanding of military affairs, you would have realized that any "defensive" operation was a losing one by definition and led to a worsening of the USSR's position."I immediately quoted to you two military planners of the war with the USSR in 1940 who were "not versed in military affairs" and who believed that: "The Russians will not do us any favors by attacking us. We must rely on the Russian ground forces to resort to defense." и "It seems unlikely that the Russians will decide on a major offensive, such as an invasion of East Prussia and the northern part of the General Government, until the bulk of the German army is tied down for a long time by fighting on another front."

                        It turns out that either I "don't understand military affairs" in the same company as E. Marx and B. Lossberg. Or you're the one who doesn't understand military affairs—which, of course, you'll never admit.

                        I can't say how well you understand naval warfare strategy. But it's clear you don't understand the strategic and operational principles of land warfare. Clearly, either you, who wrote that "any 'defensive' operation (for the USSR) was a losing one by definition," or I, along with E. Marx and B. Lossberg, who assumed that for the USSR, the optimal preparation was for the first strategic operation of the war as a defensive operation, and that the first strategic offensive operation of the war was the optimal solution for the USSR only under conditions where a significant part of the German army would be tied down for a long time by military actions in another theater of military operations (for example, in the Balkan theater of 1941, during the April 1941 invasion of Yugoslavia, or in the case of the summer landing on the British Isles, "preparations" for which Germany demonstrated as part of its strategic disinformation and camouflage measures in preparation for the invasion of the USSR), clearly don't understand the matter.
                        You are told that a preemptive strike was planned to be carried out in order to preempt the deployment

                        I have already explained in simple terms that such a preemptive strike was impossible simply because the German Armed Forces were already fully mobilized, and under the conditions of the theater of military operations, they could deploy their forces along the western border of the USSR at a rate of 600 trains per day, while the USSR's railway network only allowed for 300 trains per day.

                        Yours "preventive counteroffensive with limited forces" - this is from the category of "boots in a crumpled state." Only an offensive can be preemptive, not a counteroffensive. Regarding "limited forces":

                        "...the experience of strategic games and exercises in the 30s demonstrated that invasion groups were incapable of fulfilling the tasks assigned to them in the first strategic stage of the struggle. They were weak in composition and focused on operations in isolated directions, which could lead to their eventual defeat. Instead of groups, the initial plan was to create invasion armies or shock armies, and then it was deemed necessary to assign the tasks of the invasion armies to the entire first strategic echelon of the armed forces."

                        As of June 22, 1941, the First Strategic Echelon of the Red Army, which had not yet completed its deployment, included 171 divisions (104 rifle, 40 tank, 20 mechanized, and 7 cavalry).

                        "Limited powers..." - well, I hope you get the idea.
                        It is obvious that we are talking about a period when the Germans are not planning to attack the USSR and are fighting with another country - accordingly, there is no deployment near our borders and, of course, there will be no preemptive strike.

                        Not familiar with A. Svechin's concept of "preventive war"? You've read it.

                        "Preventive wars play a major role in history; they are wars provoked by one state because the strengthening of a neighbor threatens it with a future war that will have to be waged under conditions worse than those that are currently developing. A preventive war is thus characterized by a situation of political defense and strategic offensive."

                        So whose preemptive strike did you decide to write about?

                        In the event of a German landing on the British Isles in the summer of 1941, the USSR had no choice but to initiate a preventive war against Germany on its own initiative, even before large-scale ground combat operations on British soil were completed. This is clear from A. Svechin's definition of preventive war.

                        In the case of Hitler's Germany, a preventive war with the USSR is naturally out of the question. Simply because we know that Hitler decided to "quickly" crush the USSR in a single summer campaign in order to "deprive England of its last hope." "Quickly" doesn't mean crushing an equally powerful adversary, only a weakling. At the same time, German propaganda of the time certainly trumpeted something about Germany being forced to wage a preventive war against the USSR. Simply to justify itself in the eyes of its own population and the relatively neutral "world community." It's precisely this—that the theory of Germany's "preventive war" against the USSR has nothing to do with historical scholarship, but is purely a propaganda thesis of Hitler's, as Meltyukhov, in particular, wrote in his work. It was simply one of his theses. You didn't even remember that thesis.
                        Yes please, here is your favorite Meltyukhov

                        Remind me, what particular idea of ​​yours did you decide to support with a quote from Meltyukhov's book? What "The USSR was simply too late to implement its plan."? Well, no one argued with you about that. I was simply trying to explain to you why the Soviet Armed Forces could not have been late in 1941 in the event of a surprise invasion of the USSR by the "pre-deployed armed forces" of Germany and its allies. And Meltyukhov explained to you that a surprise attack on the USSR by the German Armed Forces and its allies "It wasn't included in Soviet plans at all"It wasn't envisaged because Stalin had a very high opinion of Hitler as a strategist. He believed that Hitler would not, on his own initiative, unleash a two-front war, which had already led Germany to disaster more than two decades earlier.

                        So why prepare for something that a sophisticated opponent will never do?
                        the formation and concentration in the border area of ​​special motorized mechanized and aviation units, designed to disrupt the mobilization and concentration of the enemy's main forces at the beginning of military operations

                        "...the execution of the tasks of the invasion armies was deemed necessary to be entrusted to the entire first strategic echelon of the armed forces."
        2. +2
          16 March 2026 21: 12
          As a result, the USSR was simply too late to carry out its plan - an attempt to bring divisions from border districts into the field would have provoked an immediate attack.

          By the end of April and the beginning of May 1941, it was definitely too late. But neither the USSR People's Commissar of Defense Timoshenko, nor the Chief of the USSR General Staff Zhukov understood this at that time. Therefore, for example, on June 12, 1941, the General Staff, by its directives, began to "deploy into the field" all the "deep" rifle corps of special border districts, secretly, with night marches and a deadline of July 1, 1941. And a little later, they also began secretly moving mechanized corps "into the field". The People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR, for example, on June 19, 1941, ordered by July 5, 1941 "in each air basing area of ​​500 km of border strip, 8-10 false airfields, each of which is to be equipped with 40-50 mock aircraft."

          Not “immediately, and report when ready,” but by specific deadlines, and “report execution on 1.7 and 15.7.41.”
          And Stalin was again misled by intelligence, which estimated the Wehrmacht to be almost twice as strong as it actually was.

          Stalin was primarily misled by his own unshakable conviction that Hitler, as a rational player, would not initiate a two-front war on his own initiative. Everything else is merely a consequence of Stalin's confidence.
          Therefore, Stalin, believing that at most half of the Wehrmacht was concentrated in the east, hoped that there would be no attack in 41.

          Yes, yes. And thousands of mock-ups of airplanes "made from sticks and rags," the installation of which at false airfields was supposed to be reported through the Chief of the General Staff to the People's Commissar of Defense Timoshenko by July 5, 1941, were supposed to stand in the rain, then in the snow until the summer of the following 1942. By July 1, 1941, all airfields were to be sown with grass to match the color of the surrounding terrain, runways were to be painted and the entire airfield environment was to be imitated in accordance with the surrounding background, tanks, armored vehicles, command, special and transport vehicles were to be painted with matte camouflage paints by July 1, 1941, again with the hope of a war in 1942. Not only everyone guessed about the imminent start of the war... few could do it. Some people still don't understand that the USSR Armed Forces were preparing to enter the world war in the summer of 1941. It's trivial because by 1942, after the collapse of the British Empire following the landing in Britain, and left alone in the West with Germany, which had conquered all of Europe, and in the East with an aggressive, militaristic Japan, already long at war in China (with which they had already had to fight since 1938 at Lake Khasan and in 1939 at the Khalkhin Gol River), it would have been too late to wait for the weather to change. It's a shame that you, while understanding that the USSR was simply late by the summer of 1941, don't realize that by the summer of 1941, those responsible for it already understood that continuing to be late until 1942 would be fatal.
          1. +1
            19 March 2026 13: 15
            As always, a ton of irrelevant text
            1. 0
              19 March 2026 16: 08
              I simply wrote about how Comrade Stalin and the Soviet General Staff allowed a surprise attack on the USSR by the fully deployed German Armed Forces in June 1941. Some comrades, while criticizing the current leadership of the state and the armed forces in the comments, while pointing to Comrade Stalin's brilliant leadership, forget that the current leadership prevented a surprise attack by the Ukrainian Armed Forces on Donbas, decided to strike first, and managed to "strike first."

              To know whose mistakes to learn from, you need to at least know them. I know them. Many don't.
              1. +1
                19 March 2026 16: 48
                Quote: AlexanderA
                I just wrote how it happened that Comrade Stalin and the Soviet General Staff allowed a surprise attack on the USSR in June 1941.

                And they did it wrong. And then, to confirm their incorrect point of view, they came up with a bunch of other errors.
                1. 0
                  20 March 2026 22: 29
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  And they did it wrong.

                  You value yourself too much in art and proclaim your personal opinion as the ultimate truth. You proclaim it without evidence.

                  Objectively, I am familiar with a much larger number of historical documents and works of historians on the issue raised, and I can cite these sources, which I have already demonstrated.

                  Compared to you, who read something from your words, but forgot, and is not able to provide a single quote to support your personal opinion.

                  Well, I hope you get the idea. Yesterday, I had fun quoting Erich Marcks and Bernhard von Lossberg, who you considered "ignorant of military matters." Today, I'm simply not interested in continuing the conversation.
        3. 0
          19 March 2026 12: 41
          ...Major Kuznetsov arrives in Kobrin on June 17, 1941, and obtains an audience with the commander of the 4th Army of the Red Army, Major General Alexander Korobkov, and reports to him the real situation on the state border.
          The report includes a list of forces concentrated by the German command, the presence of landing craft and the identified artillery positions. The border guard major demands that all this information be reported to the very top at the General Staff of the Red Army. In addition, he makes a forecast that a major military operation will begin within 10 days at the most and suggests to the commander that the rifle divisions take up prepared positions along the state border behind the border guards. On the recommendation of the NKGB of the USSR, Kuznetsov suggests to Korobkov, without waiting for the decision of the district headquarters in Minsk, to form separate engineering and sabotage companies to strengthen the protection of the border bridges.
          Major General Korobkov will evaluate the reasonableness of all the proposals of the border guard major on the morning of June 22, but on June 17 he can think of nothing better to do than to arrest the head of the border detachment for panic and exaggeration of the enemy’s strength.
          1. +1
            19 March 2026 13: 14
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Major Kuznetsov arrives in Kobrin on June 17, 1941

            It's already infinitely late
            1. 0
              19 March 2026 13: 19
              In fact, it outlines specific measures required here and immediately. And it's as if the border guard acted on the recommendations of the USSR NKGB, meaning everyone knew everything. Intelligence knew, but the opponent claims the opposite.
              Army Commander Korobkov was later executed. Later, he was rehabilitated, which seems in vain. When he held such a high position, he surely understood that he was not up to it.
              1. +1
                19 March 2026 13: 51
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                In fact, it sets out specific measures that are required here and immediately.

                Late.
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                And it's as if the border guard was acting on the recommendations of the NKGB of the USSR, meaning they knew everything. Intelligence knew, but the opponent claims the opposite.

                Late.
                I seem to be writing in simple language, so why are there such difficulties in understanding?
                The cover plans called for launching an offensive with limited forces from the border districts BEFORE the Germans deployed at our borders. The essence of the attack was to disrupt the German deployment and buy time until the Red Army mobilized. What could be unclear about this?
                Next, our scouts overslept the Wehrmacht's concentration and discovered it when it was already too late to attack, given the superiority of the German forces.
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                Major Kuznetsov arrives on June 17, 1941.

                And the Germans cancelled our plans back in May 1941.
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                And it was as if the border guard acted on the recommendations of the NKGB of the USSR, that is, everyone knew everything there.

                In June—that is, too late. The German deployment should have been uncovered in April or early May at the latest.
                1. 0
                  19 March 2026 14: 22
                  Forgive me, but your judgment doesn't sound like a military man. You don't distinguish between strategic planning and events conducted at the army, division, or regiment level. Even the events for which there was sufficient time weren't carried out. These events are precisely the ones cited in General Korobkov's example. In addition to directly moving to defensive positions, they should have set up personnel reception centers and at least announced muster periods for mobilized personnel, begun bringing in equipment from the national economy, and issued ammunition.
                  1. +1
                    19 March 2026 14: 46
                    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                    In addition to the direct withdrawal to defensive positions, it was necessary to set up personnel reception points and at least announce a meeting for those being mobilized.

                    Is it okay that levies were announced? How do you think the divisions in the border districts were filled to full strength?
                    1. -1
                      19 March 2026 15: 09
                      You've gone all out and started making things up as you go. There was no mobilization, not even a training camp in June 1941.
                      1. +1
                        19 March 2026 15: 21
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        You've already gone all out and started making things up as you go.

                        ??? I wrote to you
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Is it okay that the fees were announced?

                        And what kind of fiction is there?
                        "According to the mobilization plan approved in February 1941, a call-up of 793,5 reservists was carried out at the end of May and the beginning of June, which made it possible to staff 21 divisions of the border districts to their full wartime strength, as well as significantly replenish other formations, artillery units, air defense forces, and fortified areas" (Zakharov, "The General Staff in the Prewar Years" - Moscow: Voenizdat, 1989)
                        "In May and early June 1941, approximately 800 people were called up from the reserves for training, and all of them were sent to replenish the troops of the border western military districts and their fortified areas. The Central Committee of the Party and the Soviet government carried out a number of other significant measures to further increase the combat readiness and combat effectiveness of the armed forces..." (Vasilevsky, "The Work of a Lifetime" - Moscow: Politizdat, 1978)
                        "In total, over 802 people were called up for 'training exercises' before the declaration of war, which constituted 24% of the assigned personnel according to the MP-41 mobilization plan. These measures made it possible to strengthen half of all rifle divisions (99 out of 198), intended primarily for operations in the West. At the same time, the composition of rifle divisions in the border districts, with a standard strength of 14483 people, was increased to: 21 divisions - up to 14 people, 72 divisions - up to 12 people, and 6 rifle divisions - up to 11 people. At the same time, units and formations of other branches of the armed forces and services were replenished..." ("1941 - Lessons and Conclusions" - Moscow: Voenizdat, 1992.)
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        There was no mobilization

                        Naturally, there wasn't, and I never claimed otherwise. And you, "a military man," do you even understand that declaring mobilization equals declaring war?
                      2. -1
                        19 March 2026 15: 28
                        Do you even understand that declaring mobilization = declaring war?
                        The Germans came up with this to justify their attack on the Russian Empire in 1914. And even if there's some truth to it, if a fight is inevitable, you have to strike first.
                      3. +1
                        19 March 2026 15: 54
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        This was invented by the Germans to justify their attack on the Russian Empire in 1914.

                        If you claim to have military knowledge, you should know that the Russian Empire, and the USSR after it, had one very serious problem. The essence of this problem was that, having begun mobilization simultaneously, Germany completed the deployment of its army about a month before Russia. The reason is quite obvious: in Russia, distances are greater, but the density of railways is less.
                        This is precisely why both the Russian Empire and the USSR had similar plans for the start of the war, based on covering forces in the border districts and a preemptive strike with them to disrupt the deployment of the German army. In 1914, this worked insofar as the Russian Empire also had a local advantage, but was unable to realize it: Samsonov and Rennenkampf overwhelmed the covering forces, but then Samsonov was defeated by the redeployed German corps.
                        In 1941, the time when we could have attacked with a chance of success was hopelessly missed due to intelligence failures.
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        If a fight is inevitable, then you have to strike first.

                        The thing is, we couldn't strike first, and a fight didn't seem inevitable at all.
                      4. -1
                        19 March 2026 17: 00
                        What other intelligence failures? There's Merkulov's report from June 17, 1941, and the quoted attempt by the Border Detachment Commander to bring the 4th Army Commander to his senses.
                      5. +1
                        19 March 2026 17: 33
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        What other intelligence failures are there? There's also Merkulova's report from June 17, 1941.

                        Try reading the phrase again.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In June—that is, too late. The German deployment should have been uncovered in April or early May at the latest.

                        And I think the beginning of May is already a bit late. April.
                        In mid-May, Zhukov reported that, as of May 15, 1941, up to 86 infantry, 13 tank, 12 motorized, and 1 cavalry divisions, for a total of 120 divisions, were concentrated on the borders of the Soviet Union. He was exaggerating, of course (again, questions for intelligence), but the pre-war plan had completely lost its relevance. Had we attempted anything that the Germans would have regarded as preparation for war, these forces would have struck immediately. And we had no way to repel it. And no Merkulovs or other border guard commanders could have recommended anything that would have saved the situation.
                  2. +1
                    19 March 2026 14: 50
                    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                    So, even the events for which there was enough time were not held.

                    There were a ton of mistakes there and then... it wasn't for nothing that general was executed. It's unclear why the armies in the Brest region and the Bialystok salient rushed after the tanks of Guderian and Hoth, who had outflanked them, instead of staying where they were, where there were ammunition and fuel depots, positions covered by anti-aircraft artillery... No, they ran along the roads under air strikes, losing equipment and transport without fuel, and then through forests and swamps, after carrying out Timoshenko and Zhukov's orders for counterattacks... they retreated from their supply bases under German air strikes, under the so-called non-contact rout.
                    1. +1
                      19 March 2026 18: 07
                      Quote: Konnick
                      There were a lot of mistakes there and then...

                      If you look at WWII as a computer game, then yes. But if you look more closely, the 8MK's hesitation has a clear basis. Incidentally, the counterattack Zhukov demanded would have had every chance of success... if not for the Southwestern Front's leadership, which relied heavily on this order.
  12. + 10
    16 March 2026 06: 44
    If you look at our Navy, the entire country has enough ships with long-range air defense systems to count on the fingers of one hand. Okay, two hands, if you count the ships under construction and repair. Across four fleets. Of these, two cruisers have air defense systems comparable to the Moscow-class cruiser.
    Even in the long term, we can't even dream about squadron expeditions for now.
  13. + 20
    16 March 2026 07: 16
    Lesson: Even the newest ships can only operate under conditions where they are reliably covered by aircraft or air defense.

    Never before has Roman been so dangerously close to recognizing the role of aircraft carriers in the modern Navy. laughing
    1. +8
      16 March 2026 09: 01
      The Russian Navy, even if it does see such ships, will be a long time coming. Hopefully, they'll be able to provide shore-based cover, and that'll be fine.
      1. + 15
        16 March 2026 09: 15
        Quote: NordOst16
        The Russian Navy will not see such ships in service anytime soon.

        The Russian Navy has no prospects at all... If only they could deploy SSBNs, that would be a blessing.
        1. 0
          16 March 2026 12: 26
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          To ensure the deployment of SSBNs,

          Yes, they seem to be making provision, and the ships are on duty. So, it's certainly possible to think about something more ambitious. For example, organizing interaction between the ships and coastal aviation.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          The Russian Navy has no prospects at all...

          I agree that things are going hard, but with time I will surely gain experience in how to manage the existing business.
          1. +3
            16 March 2026 18: 37
            Quote: NordOst16
            Yes, it seems they are slowly providing supplies, ships are going on duty.

            In peacetime. But in wartime, when every Northern Fleet base has a single minesweeper, including prehistoric ones, and when patrol aircraft are practically nonexistent...
            1. +2
              16 March 2026 19: 49
              In wartime, attacking strategic nuclear forces carries the risk that the enemy might not appreciate it, and only do so if they are absolutely certain of the success of the operation.
              So far, this cannot be guaranteed even under conditions of minimal opposition.
              And the real prospect of receiving a salvo (even not a full one) has a cooling effect.
      2. +6
        16 March 2026 10: 25
        Yes, our industry should avoid thinking about aircraft carriers for now, to avoid wasting money. In fact, even building a large cruiser is a very difficult task for the industry right now. Not because it's complex. No. Even our infrastructure is lacking. For example, where to get the metal for construction? This alone makes the project a long-term project.
        1. +2
          16 March 2026 12: 34
          Well, it seems to me that the main problem isn't industry. I'm sure that existing resources are far from being fully utilized.
          They will equip the fleet with heavy and light reconnaissance UAVs and learn to coordinate the operations of ships and coastal aviation. They will build a series of corvettes and frigates, nuclear and conventional submarines, and supply ships.
          They'll work out their application. And then we can continue to see how things go, and perhaps shipbuilding will catch up. But the most important thing is people, and nurturing specialists and building a stable system for their training and advancement, in my opinion, is no easier than building ships.
          1. +3
            16 March 2026 13: 47
            Personnel is also a problem, that's true, and it can't be solved quickly, but it can be partially alleviated by improving equipment and pay levels.
          2. +4
            16 March 2026 13: 49
            They will saturate...
            They will build...
            They will work.
            Dreams.
            And what you have rightly noted is that we need people, we need specialists.
            This is what we need right now.
            But as long as we have people in ministerial positions who have neither a relevant education nor relevant work experience, and as long as we have relatives being pushed into power, we will have nothing!!!
            Just dreams!! "They will feed, build... and so on and so forth."
            There's too much corruption and unprofessionalism among leaders. The desire to grab money prevails.
            Here's a simple example. GAZ hired Boo Anderson. This Boo didn't steal or take kickbacks; he simply worked, fulfilling his job responsibilities and getting paid. Why weren't there any local workers willing to do the job? Were they unable to do it, or were the kickbacks too much of a concern? It's unclear. But the fact that Boo at least left behind a much more efficient system is certain.
            1. +1
              16 March 2026 14: 24
              Quote: Evgesha
              But as long as we have people in ministerial positions who have neither a relevant education nor relevant work experience, and as long as we have relatives being pushed into power, we will have nothing!!!

              It was, it is, and it will be. Thinking and assuming that this won't happen is like believing in communism: it's inevitable and will definitely come, but sometime later. We need to find solutions that can, if not mitigate, then at least alleviate it. And this is no trivial task.
              In my opinion, the current solution is to ensure the loyalty of officials, and the payment for this is to turn a blind eye to kickbacks.
              Therefore, the next step will be to separate the security sector from business, following the example of the United States (corruption exists there, but at a very high level). How this will be implemented, well... we'll see.
              1. VlK
                +1
                16 March 2026 14: 43
                In my opinion, the current solution is to ensure the loyalty of officials, and the payment for this is to turn a blind eye to kickbacks.

                loyalty to whom or what exactly?
                1. 0
                  16 March 2026 15: 09
                  The system and the leadership, so that if problems arise, the generals and top officials don't sell each other out and the top brass (and so that a Venezuela- or Iran-like situation doesn't arise). And overall, in my opinion, this was successful.
                  It's a shame that competence wasn't included in the list of necessary things, but what can you do?
            2. bar
              -2
              16 March 2026 14: 47
              Quote: Evgesha
              Here's a simple example. GAZ hired Bu Anderson. This Bu didn't steal or take kickbacks; he simply worked, fulfilled his job responsibilities, and received a salary for it.

              Before that, Bou was in charge at VAZ. It's perfectly normal that he was ruining production; the French were paying him for it. But he wasn't shy about appointing his foreign mistresses as vice presidents either. He was a real tyrant. He left a system behind, and the French themselves spent a long time cleaning up after him before they finally left.
              1. -1
                20 March 2026 19: 29
                Bu first worked at GAZ,
                and then I switched to a VAZ... well, what can I say: "it's a damned place" belay
    2. +9
      16 March 2026 10: 47
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Lesson: Even the newest ships can only operate under conditions where they are reliably covered by aircraft or air defense.

      Never before has Roman been so dangerously close to recognizing the role of aircraft carriers in the modern Navy. laughing

      One aircraft carrier won't make a difference. And to have a navy like China's, you need a GDP like China's and a population like China's.
      1. + 11
        16 March 2026 11: 30
        Quote: Panin (Michman)
        One aircraft carrier won't make a difference.

        Let's differentiate between the need for aircraft carriers for the navy and the ability to build and operate them. Aircraft carriers are necessary if we plan to operate beyond the BMP; if we can't build and maintain them, there's no point in talking about ourselves as a great naval power.
        1. +5
          16 March 2026 13: 12
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: Panin (Michman)
          One aircraft carrier won't make a difference.

          Let's differentiate between the need for aircraft carriers for the navy and the ability to build and operate them. Aircraft carriers are necessary if we plan to operate beyond the BMP; if we can't build and maintain them, there's no point in talking about ourselves as a great naval power.

          And no one's even talking about it lately. There's only one great maritime power in the world, with a military budget of $900 billion. France and Holland were also once great maritime powers, as was Spain.
          1. +4
            16 March 2026 18: 39
            Quote: Panin (Michman)
            There is one great maritime power in the world with a military budget of 900 billion dollars.

            And almost a dozen more operating aircraft carriers...
            1. -1
              17 March 2026 12: 56
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Quote: Panin (Michman)
              There is one great maritime power in the world with a military budget of 900 billion dollars.

              And almost a dozen more operating aircraft carriers...

              You can exploit anything you want. In peacetime.
              1. 0
                17 March 2026 13: 25
                Quote: Panin (Michman)

                You can exploit anything you want. In peacetime.

                And you can chatter about anything, whether in peacetime or in wartime. It won't slip your tongue.
                1. -2
                  18 March 2026 06: 17
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Quote: Panin (Michman)

                  You can exploit anything you want. In peacetime.

                  And you can chatter about anything, whether in peacetime or in wartime. It won't slip your tongue.

                  A prime example is Admiral Kuznetsov, who sailed alone to Syria and back, mercilessly smoking, until he finally collapsed. It's scary to think what would have happened to him now.
                  1. +2
                    18 March 2026 08: 03
                    Quote: Panin (Michman)
                    A striking example is Admiral Kuznetsov

                    Vivid examples include the Falklands War, which was dragged out by two British aircraft carriers. The Indo-Pakistani conflict in 1971, when the Vikrant carried out over 400 sorties against Pakistani ports and naval bases in less than a week, destroying two patrol boats, two transports, eight medium-sized vessels, and striking numerous other targets. Libya, when the French de Gaulle carried out approximately a third of all French air strikes.
                    And the Kuznetsov is a story about a ship, fresh from repairs, being sent into combat without being restored to combat readiness, but instead being handed an aircraft that hadn't been accepted into service. With the expected result.
                    1. -2
                      18 March 2026 10: 21
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Quote: Panin (Michman)
                      A striking example is Admiral Kuznetsov

                      Vivid examples include the Falklands War, which was dragged out by two British aircraft carriers. The Indo-Pakistani conflict in 1971, when the Vikrant carried out over 400 sorties against Pakistani ports and naval bases in less than a week, destroying two patrol boats, two transports, eight medium-sized vessels, and striking numerous other targets. Libya, when the French de Gaulle carried out approximately a third of all French air strikes.

                      Did Libya and Pakistan have anything similar to anti-ship missiles or underwater drones?
                      Argentina sank ships without any aircraft carriers. And if they had anything similar to Soviet anti-ship missiles, the number of ships sunk would have been critical.
                      I don't know what the Vikrant air force sank, but the missile boats and submarines inflicted the main losses. And the outcome of the war was decided by the air force and ground forces.
                      1. +1
                        18 March 2026 10: 57
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Did Libya and Pakistan have anything similar to anti-ship missiles or underwater drones?

                        Libya very much did.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Argentina sank ships without any aircraft carriers.

                        Yeah. But she lost the war.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        I don't know what your aircraft from Vikrant sank there.

                        Well, then, take an interest in it at your leisure.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        The main losses were caused by missile boats.

                        Unexpectedly, they are smaller than those of the aircraft carriers. The missile cruisers sank one WWII-era destroyer, a minesweeper, and a transport. Indian submarines had no victories in the Third Indo-Pakistani War.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        And the outcome of the war was decided by the air force and ground forces.

                        So, was the aircraft carrier supposed to decide? :))))
                        The fact is, there are plenty of situations in which non-American aircraft carriers have proven themselves. And you can continue fantasizing about underwater drones, star destroyers, death rays, and so on.
                      2. -1
                        18 March 2026 11: 10
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Did Libya and Pakistan have anything similar to anti-ship missiles or underwater drones?

                        Libya very much did.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Argentina sank ships without any aircraft carriers.

                        Yeah. But she lost the war.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        I don't know what your aircraft from Vikrant sank there.

                        Well, then, take an interest in it at your leisure.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        The main losses were caused by missile boats.

                        Unexpectedly, they are smaller than those of the aircraft carriers. The missile cruisers sank one WWII-era destroyer, a minesweeper, and a transport. Indian submarines had no victories in the Third Indo-Pakistani War.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        And the outcome of the war was decided by the air force and ground forces.

                        So, was the aircraft carrier supposed to decide? :))))
                        The fact is, there are plenty of situations in which non-American aircraft carriers have proven themselves. And you can continue fantasizing about underwater drones, star destroyers, death rays, and so on.

                        Sorry, but you can fantasize about how to build an aircraft carrier for each of the fleets and not be left without panties.
                      3. +1
                        18 March 2026 11: 48
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Sorry, but you can fantasize about how to build an aircraft carrier for each of the fleets and not be left without panties.

                        For those who are unable to master a simple text the first time, I repeat
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Let's still separate the need for aircraft carriers for the fleet and the ability to build and operate these very aircraft carriers.

                        The Navy needs aircraft carriers. Other countries (not the US) build them and use them effectively. The fact that we can't build them because we've been waging a nuclear war for five years and have driven our economy into the trash heap doesn't refute either fact.
                        We need to accept this, and not come up with excuses like, “I didn’t really want it.”
                      4. -1
                        18 March 2026 17: 18
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Yeah. But she lost the war.

                        It lost because it had problems with the dictatorship and the economy. And it didn't have enough of those XXOCETS missiles. So, it got off by giving up islands that didn't belong to it. France also lost the war in Algeria and Indochina politically. But here's a simple question: would having an aircraft carrier have helped Argentina win the war? America didn't really benefit from it in Vietnam.
                      5. +2
                        18 March 2026 18: 10
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        She lost because there were problems with the dictatorship and the economy.

                        But before you "give advice of cosmic proportions and cosmic stupidity" (c), let's study the material a little, okay?
                        Impoverished, dictatorial Argentina somehow managed to field an air force far superior to what the British could muster.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Well, there weren't enough of these Xxocet missiles.

                        Suddenly, the British had no air-launched anti-ship missiles at all. They were overcoming them with democracy and economics, no doubt about it.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        And so, she got off by giving away islands that didn't belong to her.

                        But without aircraft carriers, the British wouldn't have even ventured there, meaning there wouldn't have been a war at all. In other words, it was aircraft carriers that made it possible for the British to reclaim their lands.
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Here's a simple question: would having an Aircraft Carrier have helped Argentina win the war?

                        So you don't even know that she had it? :))))))) A deep analysis of the Falklands conflict, very deep laughing
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Things didn't help America much in Vietnam.

                        Yeah. Nuclear weapons didn't help either. And the Air Force didn't help. And the ground forces didn't help either. To hell with it all!
                        In short, stop spouting nonsense; it's hurting her. You're now using the standard demagogic tactic: "If an aircraft carrier (or submarine, tank, airplane, automatic machine, washing machine, dishwashing detergent—insert the appropriate one) can't conquer the world, then it's useless!"
                      6. -1
                        18 March 2026 19: 40
                        [quote=Andrey from Chelyabinsk][quote=Panin (michman)], then it’s useless!”[/quote]
                        Exactly, Andrey, exactly. The money could be spent on something useful. We're not the US, building Zumwalts. I understand that someone needs flights to Mars, Armatas, Burans, and battleships and aircraft carriers... But we've been through all this before.
                      7. +1
                        19 March 2026 07: 55
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        That's right, Andrey, that's right.

                        Well, since you yourself admit that you are engaging in demagoguery, let's leave it at that.
                  2. VlK
                    0
                    18 March 2026 11: 23
                    Kuznetsov went to Syria with Peter the Great and two large anti-submarine ships, if I'm not mistaken, and probably with an underwater escort component.
      2. -1
        16 March 2026 22: 36
        Well, our population is about half the size of the US, and our navy is like 50 million people...
        1. 0
          19 March 2026 19: 37
          We need to delve into the history of this issue. When was the last time the Black Sea Fleet operated successfully? It operated successfully in the First World War. When, in the troughs of the early twentieth century, it successfully confronted two of the newest German ships. What happened next? The naval officers were exterminated by revolutionary sailors. One battleship was sunk, another was hijacked to Africa.
          And then traditions and methods were introduced into combat training in the navy, which no longer allowed the fleet to become combat-ready. This is what needs to be addressed. First, we need to figure out what these traditions are and who is carrying them.
          What kind of tradition is this? I don't know. But I see that the navy is incapable of shooting down slow-moving drones and destroying BEKs (motorboats). It's probably something like the army's "last man standing" test, where the end result is that no one can do anything.
          1. +1
            19 March 2026 23: 56
            It's not about traditions. You don't have to look far—that same Ukraine had some sort of SDK, the Olefirenko, floating around in 2022. It was supposedly in Berdyansk in February 2022. Our forces supposedly captured it, but then it somehow ended up near Odessa, and there was a video of it sailing away from the shelling. Then it fired at our forces repeatedly at Kinsburg Spit. Apparently, it was only caught in 2023 and sunk somewhere. And this is a landing ship, a medium-sized one, its only weapon is a Polish equivalent of the BM-14, and someone actually used it, some Ukrainian sailors, probably still serving in the Soviet Navy. And they dragged Hurricanes onto barges and fired at the shore. How is that possible? That's against regulations! belay I bet if you gave them the "Moscow" and the Varshavyankas, they'd find a use for them in the war. But here, it feels like the Black Sea Fleet is commanded by some Zen-loving Buddhist who sits in his office in serenity and encourages others to do the same. These aren't traditions; they're either vegetables or traitors. Basically, what should they be judged for?
  14. +2
    16 March 2026 07: 49
    It's unclear why a warship would even be allowed to sail unarmed. It's purely for show and a waste of fuel. For which the Iranians paid the price.
    1. + 11
      16 March 2026 08: 09
      Quote: Glock-17
      It's unclear why a warship would even be allowed to sail unarmed. It's purely for show and a waste of fuel. For which the Iranians paid the price.

      What makes you think he was unarmed? Just because the propagandists want him to be?
      And the other Iranian ships were also unarmed?
      1. -6
        16 March 2026 08: 24
        Did you read the article carefully? It says the ship was unarmed because it was returning from a parade.
        1. +7
          16 March 2026 08: 47
          Quote: Glock-17
          Did you read the article carefully? It says the ship was unarmed because it was returning from a parade.

          On the fence is also written.
          After the parade, there were live-fire exercises. They were covered by the press. Can you find the videos yourself?
          The same Shaposhnikov took part in the parade. And then in the shooting.
    2. +7
      16 March 2026 09: 11
      This is the author's unsubstantiated fantasy. Warships don't sail unarmed.
      1. -1
        16 March 2026 09: 16
        In fact, naval sailors go on a combat mission, not on a voyage.
        1. +8
          16 March 2026 09: 22
          I've heard that the Navy uses the term "combat duty," but I won't insist. I'm glad you didn't object to the author's supposed lack of weapons in his fantasies.
          1. -2
            16 March 2026 09: 25
            Perhaps this is the author’s invention, but if it is true, then one can only be amazed at such sloppiness.
          2. +3
            16 March 2026 10: 51
            Quote from solar
            I've heard that the Navy uses the term "combat duty," but I won't insist. I'm glad you didn't object to the author's supposed lack of weapons in his fantasies.

            The term "combat service" is interpreted differently. The British, for example, said "the king has plenty." But it seems the Iranian ship's ability to detect submarines was zero.
        2. VlK
          +8
          16 March 2026 10: 23
          In fact, naval sailors go on a combat mission, not on a voyage.

          and even in peacetime? ))
          Yes, yes, we remember, they don't sail, they walk, they're not a vessel but a ship, a captain but a commander, and so on. This is all, excuse me, just empty show-offs if the fleet can't then accomplish its intended missions. You know, control of waters, blockade of the enemy coast, protection of shipping, and other insignificant details compared to the Main Naval Parade.
  15. +1
    16 March 2026 08: 24
    The Iranian fleet certainly didn't please (they sank like Gerasim). Gerasimov As for the fact that he was without ammunition, well, who's to blame? Wandering around the sea during a war without Patriarchs is such a big deal.
  16. 0
    16 March 2026 08: 27
    If drones were guiding the aircraft, then they should have been destroyed. Most likely, the drones weren't detected; there must have been sea-based systems like the Pantsir-S.
  17. +1
    16 March 2026 08: 31
    It should be noted that since February 28 there has not been a single report from the American side about the defeat of even one Iranian missile system.

    It should be noted that already in the last 10 days (or so) in VO in general there is no information about coalition strikes.
    1. + 13
      16 March 2026 09: 15
      The story of Armenia's war with Azerbaijan is repeating itself. Armenia was winning on the pages of VO until it lost the war. The Kherson story, when a victorious article about the defense appeared here precisely on the day Kherson was abandoned, seems to have taught VO's editors nothing... :((
    2. + 10
      16 March 2026 09: 27
      Quote: Adrey
      It should be noted that for the past 10 days (or so) there has been no information at all about coalition strikes in the VO.

      The authors of VO use information only from the IRGC press service.
      1. + 10
        16 March 2026 09: 43
        Quote: Konnick
        The authors of VO use information only from the IRGC press service.

        Yep, looks like it. And it's absolutely reliable and 100% verified.
      2. +6
        16 March 2026 20: 19
        The authors of VO use information only from the IRGC press service.

        Unfortunately, yes. This is what "impartial" and "objective" coverage of this (and other) situation looks like.
    3. 0
      17 March 2026 20: 37
      I noticed this too. The US-Israeli coalition is working with Iran, but they're barely writing about it here, apparently to avoid ruining the image of "Now the US is in deep trouble and will regret its decision."
  18. +2
    16 March 2026 08: 33
    In short, this war revealed which Iranian forces were the most combat-ready. The result is clear: the missile forces.
  19. BAI
    +9
    16 March 2026 08: 34
    It's difficult to say why Tehran ignored such valuable experience. But repeating the mistakes of 2023 in 2026 is, at the very least, illogical.

    What claims are there against Iran? Russia couldn't defend its Black Sea Fleet from Ukraine, which has no naval or air power. And here comes the US, with its epic naval and air power. Plus, space reconnaissance.
  20. -3
    16 March 2026 08: 42
    Bolshevism is the essence of Russian civilization.

    Quote: BAI
    Russia was unable to defend its Black Sea Fleet from Ukraine,

    What, we don’t have a single vessel left in the Black Sea? belay

    She was able to and protected!

    Someone recently expressed outrage over the fact that our ships in the Black Sea are moored in Novorossiysk. So many angry comments... So our decision to "hide" them under the reliable protection of the coastal defense was the right one!
    1. +4
      16 March 2026 08: 49
      So 95% of the Iranian Navy was also "under the reliable protection of coastal defenses." Was that the right decision?
      1. -5
        16 March 2026 08: 54
        The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

        Quote: Tlauicol
        So 95% of the Iranian Navy was also "under the reliable protection of coastal defenses." Was that the right decision?

        The decision was correct, but the execution, compared to ours, was poor.

        Have you heard anything about the Black Sea Fleet base in Novorossiysk being attacked and a single naval ship being destroyed? I haven't.

        So we have nothing to learn from Iran!
        1. +1
          16 March 2026 09: 02
          Attack on March 2, 2026:
          The gist: A large-scale drone attack on military and industrial facilities in the city.
          Consequences: According to local authorities, drone fragments struck residential buildings, injuring seven people. The SBU stated that the targets were military installations and the Sheskharis oil terminal.
          Damage to the fleet: There were reports of possible damage to two frigates, but there was no official confirmation of critical damage to the ships from the Russian Ministry of Defense.
          Submarine Incident (December 2025):
          Ukraine's statement: The SBU reported the first-ever attack by a Sub Sea Baby underwater drone, which allegedly resulted in the destruction of a Project 636.3 Varshavyanka submarine.
          Russia's position: The Russian Ministry of Defense confirmed the attack by the underwater drone but stated that it was repelled and no ships or submarines were damaged. Satellite images showed damage to the mooring infrastructure.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. -6
            16 March 2026 09: 22
            V.V. Putin is my president. He is a Bolshevik!

            Quote: Gardamir
            UAV fragments hit residential buildings
            Quote: Gardamir
            There were reports of a possible defeat
            Quote: Gardamir
            as a result of which she was allegedly struck

            What is this nonsense?
            They hit God knows where, maybe they hit something, supposedly they sank it... wassat

            Quote: Gardamir
            The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed the attack by the underwater drone, but said it was repelled and no ships or submarines were damaged.

            That's all you need to know and it only confirms that we made the right decision to hide our fleet.
            1. +2
              16 March 2026 09: 24
              When will this time come and this time will arrive?
              1. -7
                16 March 2026 09: 27
                The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

                Quote: Gardamir
                When will this time come and this time will arrive?

                When we liberate Odessa.
                1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +2
              16 March 2026 15: 19
              The submarine is inoperable. Its entire propulsion system is completely disabled—the propeller shaft is torn off and there's a ton of other internal damage. The rudders are probably damaged. At the very least, the integrity of the pressure hull needs to be checked, but most likely, it'll be quietly written off. Yes, it wasn't hit, but the nearby explosion also caused damage.

              Regarding the shrapnel hitting the house, there are at least two videos from Novorossiysk where you can see a drone simply crashing into a house. I saw two, but I don't know how many hit the house.
              Locals say one of the drone hits was completely accidental, as the house appeared recently and isn't on all maps, and there's some kind of object behind it. And when they plotted the course, they didn't take the house into account. That's the locals' theory—the reality is unknown.
          3. +5
            16 March 2026 15: 30
            Quote: Gardamir
            The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed the attack by the underwater drone, but stated that it was reflected

            How many aircraft did Konoshenkov claim were shot down? Judging by the news in 22 alone, it's over 140, considering that at the start of the Second Military Operation, the entire Ukrainian Air Force consisted of 98 combat aircraft, 29 of which were attack aircraft of all types. But according to the news, they shot down at least 70 Soviet-era aircraft alone. Let's assume NATO had gotten around to it and delivered everything by land in a month, assembled it, tested it, and made it combat-ready. But they couldn't possibly have trained that many pilots so quickly! Maybe they pulled 25-30 from the reserves and that was it, they were out of pilots.
            So after this, you still want to believe the Ministry of Defense's statements and rely on them? Maybe you should see a doctor because they're ignoring reality?
            Getting back to the drone. I don't think anyone noticed it until it exploded. So what the Ministry of Defense's "reflection" is supposed to be, I don't understand at all. Are they proud that it didn't blow away the pier?
        2. +6
          16 March 2026 10: 13
          It's just that they haven't yet tried to attack the Novorossiysk base "like an adult," scientifically, from aircraft carriers.
          1. -5
            16 March 2026 10: 40
            Bolshevism is the essence of Russian civilization.

            Quote: Not the fighter
            It's just that they haven't yet tried to attack the Novorossiysk base "like an adult," scientifically, from aircraft carriers.

            Aircraft carriers in the Black Sea laughing

            That's why they don't attack, because they don't want to embarrass themselves once again!
    2. +7
      16 March 2026 10: 31
      Quote: Boris55
      What, we don’t have a single vessel left in the Black Sea?

      there are none left in the combat zone
      Quote: Boris55
      She was able to and protected!

      Seriously? Well then, read the news about the attacks on Novorossiysk.
      What's there to talk about when, after four years of war, the naval base's air defenses can't even handle one slow UAV. How many strikes have already been carried out on the fleet at this base?
      By the way, it’s about 200 km from the combat zone.
      They don’t even install booms there, a tool that has been available for over a century.
      1. -10
        16 March 2026 10: 42
        The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

        Quote: multicaat
        Then read the news about the attacks on Novorossiysk.

        Gardamir The guy above posted some Ukrainian Nazi nonsense. I'm waiting for the same nonsense about TAS. laughing
        1. +4
          16 March 2026 11: 00
          Quote: Boris55
          I'm waiting for the same nonsense about tas

          I can't forbid it. Everyone practices masochism in their own way.
          Did I understand correctly that you deny the fact that there were attacks on Novorossiysk?
          1. -5
            16 March 2026 11: 02
            The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

            Quote: multicaat
            Do you deny the fact that there were attacks on Novorossiysk?

            No. There were attacks, and the attackers shit themselves. They're out of diapers, and they don't dare launch new attacks.
            1. +6
              16 March 2026 11: 11
              A partially destroyed cement plant and pier, a disabled submarine, and several damaged houses in Novorossiysk will disagree with you, and this is just what I saw myself, although I was only passing through and didn’t look for it at all - it just happened along the way.
              But the most epic moment was when the entire bay was covered in tracers, when they tried to shoot down a lone drone with small arms fire. They shot it down, but right in the bay, and the whole city was thrown into disarray. I won't even mention how residents later found bullet and shell marks all over their own city. Well, that was hardly a success.
    3. +1
      16 March 2026 10: 53
      Quote: Boris55
      Bolshevism is the essence of Russian civilization.

      Quote: BAI
      Russia was unable to defend its Black Sea Fleet from Ukraine,

      What, we don’t have a single vessel left in the Black Sea? belay

      She was able to and protected!

      Someone recently expressed outrage over the fact that our ships in the Black Sea are moored in Novorossiysk. So many angry comments... So our decision to "hide" them under the reliable protection of the coastal defense was the right one!

      The right thing to do then would be not to build ships at all.
      1. -2
        16 March 2026 11: 05
        Bolshevism is the essence of Russian civilization.

        Quote: Panin (Michman)
        The right thing to do then would be not to build ships at all.

        No, that's not right. We're still producing tanks. We've found a way to defend against the enemy. We'll find a new way to defend ourselves and enhance the existing defenses for ships.
        1. 0
          18 March 2026 11: 16
          Quote: Boris55
          Bolshevism is the essence of Russian civilization.

          Quote: Panin (Michman)
          The right thing to do then would be not to build ships at all.

          No, that's not right. We're still producing tanks. We've found a way to defend against the enemy. We'll find a new way to defend ourselves and enhance the existing defenses for ships.

          Have you counted tank losses?
    4. +5
      17 March 2026 00: 28
      Quote: Boris55
      This means that our decision to “hide” them under the reliable protection of coastal defense was the right one!

      It’s not entirely clear why they are needed at all?
      1. +3
        17 March 2026 05: 54
        To protect and hide them. What kind of stupid questions are these?
  21. +6
    16 March 2026 09: 41
    "And it turns out that without aviation to begin with, with some hodgepodge of air defenses, with a half-submerged fleet, you can tenderly hold half the world by the Adam's apple. With missiles alone, which, let's admit, are also far from the pinnacle of technical perfection."
    I like to read non-scientific fiction in the morning, or are Skomorokhov and Staver the same person?
  22. +4
    16 March 2026 10: 09
    The article is "something, about nothing." Just curious: do they pay for articles based on the number of words? Then the author got rich.
  23. +6
    16 March 2026 10: 12
    What prevented them from transferring at least some of the ships to the ports of friendly Pakistan, which most likely would not have refused?

    Am I the only one who thinks that Pakistan should have interned the ships in that case?
    As for a ship's resistance to air attack... We all remember the sinking of the Yamato? Anything can be sunk, the key is to properly deploy forces. The Americans have enough aircraft, and a wide variety of them, to sink any ship.
    1. 0
      16 March 2026 10: 55
      Quote: Not the fighter
      What prevented them from transferring at least some of the ships to the ports of friendly Pakistan, which most likely would not have refused?

      Am I the only one who thinks that Pakistan should have interned the ships in that case?
      As for a ship's resistance to air attack... We all remember the sinking of the Yamato? Anything can be sunk, the key is to properly deploy forces. The Americans have enough aircraft, and a wide variety of them, to sink any ship.

      Well, the Argentines managed to sink in ancient planes
      1. 0
        16 March 2026 11: 02
        The British couldn't repel bombing raids like they did during WW2.
        Anyone could handle this if they prepared at least a little.
        It's surprising that Argentina didn't use torpedo bombers. With such weak air defenses, the entire British fleet would have been swept away.
        1. +3
          16 March 2026 20: 23
          Argentina never had torpedo bombers. In fact, no one else in the world seems to have them now. And they sank British ships with excellent anti-ship missile aircraft purchased from the French.
          1. +1
            17 March 2026 09: 37
            Quote: Fan-Fan
            By the way, it seems like no one in the world has it now

            We are not talking about now, but about the time when the first air defense systems were far from highly effective.
            Quote: Fan-Fan
            excellent aircraft with anti-ship missiles purchased from the French.

            Those who had half the Exocet missiles per plane, so they flew with bombs, which, by the way, didn't want to explode.
  24. +2
    16 March 2026 10: 24
    The Dena was equipped with a vertical launch system, the first installed on an Iranian ship.

    Where's the vertical launch system? What's launched vertically? The SAMs are in containers in front of the bridge, and the anti-ship missiles are in inclined launchers behind the stack.
  25. +5
    16 March 2026 10: 31
    What problems could Iran have solved with its navy, but didn't? Well... none. Considering that even with maximum effort, it would have been impossible to build a navy comparable to the American one, nothing tangible could have been achieved. What's the point of this?
    The Iranian ships didn't exact a fair price for their sinking. The Bismarck once demonstrated how properly designed weapons systems should be sunk. It didn't work out that way. Did this greatly affect Iran's position? No, not much. The biggest regret is the money and resources spent on building the fleet, and the loss of the sailors.
    Of course, any ship's air defense is fundamentally imperfect, for a simple reason: a ship is fundamentally unstable. Therefore, it's impossible to target as accurately as modern electronics and computers allow. I don't understand why naval weapons specialists don't use obvious solutions that could at least partially mitigate the problem, but that's just their way of thinking.
    The conclusion from the above is that funding for the surface fleet must be cut and funding for the submarine fleet must be carefully considered. Let me remind you: the US has perfect visibility of ALL of our submarines at sea. We do too, if the Ministry of Defense and Roscosmos have any brains left. Effective use of these platforms against each other will be impossible without a complete collapse of military command and control.
    We must aggressively promote hypersonic weapons, specifically targeting submarines. And surface ships too, to minimize the American advantage. And one more thing. We must boldly use hypersonic weapons against pirates who seize our vessels, regardless of their flag or the papers they present. This is the ONLY way we can currently protect our cargo on the world's oceans. Of course, if, in response to the initial seizure, we had captured the pirates who boarded our vessel and hanged them from overhead cranes, as pirates deserve... But it's too late now. The only option now is to sink it.
    1. VlK
      +3
      16 March 2026 10: 51
      And one more thing. We must boldly use hypersonic weapons against pirates who seize our ships, regardless of what flag they fly or what papers they present. This is the ONLY way we can currently protect our cargo on the world's oceans.

      From outer space, perhaps? We have only a handful of missile carriers; they're incapable of covering even the main transport routes, and that's probably impossible in principle. These kinds of problems have always been solved by retaliatory measures: if they arrest our vessel under a trumped-up pretext, we'll arrest theirs in return under the same trumped-up pretext. Or better yet, two or three at once. The problem is that these aren't usually our ships, but rather those of the so-called shadow fleet, which have no connection to us whatsoever.
      1. -2
        16 March 2026 11: 30
        If hypersonic missiles are used, it's basically impossible to prove that we did it. Unlike the traditional approach. But it's VERY scary. Which is exactly what's needed, because right now no one believes we're even capable of making tough decisions. Faith needs to be restored. What difference does it make how many LAUNCH VEHICLES we have? Even one. The question is how many heavy missiles we have that can circle the globe. We have those, and we only need about a dozen, after which the lesson will be learned.
        1. VlK
          +3
          16 March 2026 11: 46
          How is this destruction of a target by a GZR so different from that of a simple anti-ship missile, especially in terms of provability? And the GZR owner base is still very small, so it's hard to be wrong.
          You do understand, of course, that a missile strike on a foreign ship carrying out its mission within the formal framework of international law is a de facto declaration of war with unpredictable consequences? After all, it's not just individual countries that are creating our problems, but NATO members, all of them hand-picked by some strange coincidence.
          1. -4
            16 March 2026 14: 58
            It's no different, it's just that the trajectory of hypersonic missiles can't be tracked, and you can brazenly (like the US) deny your involvement. And what about seizing someone else's ship in neutral waters? Cowards with "unpredictable consequences" have relegated Russia to the ranks of the most cowardly countries, ignored because of their cowardice. Even the Strategic Defense Initiative (conducted timidly and cautiously) isn't helping. Either we're afraid of NATO and continue to kiss their asses (why would we be killing people in the Strategic Defense Initiative then?!), or we're a powerful nation with interests of our own that we're ready to defend.
            Most likely, some are remembering their children living in NATO countries, their stolen money, their property, located there... We all understand. We feel shame and disgust...
    2. +1
      17 March 2026 09: 43
      Quote: Mikhail3
      I don't understand why naval weapons specialists

      You may not be aware, but the entire list of design bureaus specializing in marine equipment has been shortened.
      There are no specialists of the kind you are talking about.
  26. 0
    16 March 2026 11: 36
    A bit off-topic in the post. It's natural that army games are somewhat inappropriate during combat. But criticizing military competitions...after all, it's the training and selection of service members—unit, formation, and district. They honed skills that are also relevant in combat. International cooperation is another plus... Moreover, there was information that the guys who participated in the games, specifically biathlon, performed well in the Northern Military District.
  27. +4
    16 March 2026 12: 09
    The Army Games were consigned to oblivion by the new Minister of Defense Belousov; their value was close to zero.

    This is zero for you. And the generals awarded themselves bonuses and medals for well-run games.
  28. +5
    16 March 2026 12: 16
    Such a huge article, so many words, and so little meaning. It could have been written in just a few lines to get the point across.
  29. +1
    16 March 2026 14: 06
    It could be summarized with platitudes
    1. Size matters (both for unsinkability and for the placement of powerful weapons and ammunition (which also includes various aircraft)).
    => below a certain size (and with a very significant reserve in terms of displacement and survivability), a manned ocean-going aircraft carrier is not practical (others depend on their number and coherence in the group)
    => perhaps surface supply/support ships would need to be large enough and armed
    2. Quantity and invisibility turn into quality.
    => possibly aircraft-carrying (disposable UAVs and cruise missiles) strike submarine groups.
    3. If there are only relatively small and few combat units, then the naval base for them can only be underground (everything else is vulnerable to long-range and high-precision weapons with high penetrating power).
    => You can't have very large warships; build only a coastal fleet with individual shelters for it (which can be blocked). And don't venture into the ocean alone.
  30. bar
    +1
    16 March 2026 14: 17
    In our day and age, when anyone and everyone is engaged in piracy against oil and gas tankers, ensuring the unimpeded navigation of tankers is a task for a submarine

    But won't it turn out that the cost of a single submarine's mission will be more expensive than a couple of oil tankers?
  31. bar
    +3
    16 March 2026 14: 32
    A single ship must be used in combat under the air force umbrella, with missile cover from the shore. Otherwise, it will be like the Iranian corvettes.

    And what's the point of such a ship? To display a flag?
    1. +1
      16 March 2026 14: 41
      If Iran has figured out how to deploy some anti-ship missiles on its shores, and especially underground, and this is the most logical thing, then the role of its fleet fades into the background.
      1. bar
        +2
        16 March 2026 14: 52
        Based on the experience of the Air Defense Forces, many things are relegated to the background: tanks, helicopters, and even aircraft are practically only used for launching missiles without entering the air defense zone...
        1. 0
          19 March 2026 19: 21
          This was despite a relatively stable front line. While repelling the invasion of Kursk Oblast, both armored personnel carriers and helicopters were deployed for direct fire.
  32. 0
    16 March 2026 15: 39
    Today, a missile ship is simply a means of delivering missiles to the desired launch site. A single ship must be covered from land and air, or it must be part of a battle group that includes ships specialized in anti-submarine and anti-aircraft defense.
  33. -5
    16 March 2026 15: 50
    When has Iran participated in major naval battles? Since ancient times, perhaps. Iran is not a maritime power. And it has no experience using naval forces. There's no point in slandering a country that lacks experience and knowledge. And there's no point in comparing Russia and Iran. There's no point in comparing the incomparable. And the terrorist actions of the Outskirts have no bearing on military action. The weak always become terrorists.
  34. +1
    16 March 2026 17: 02
    But in 2026, repeating the mistakes of 2023 is, at the very least, illogical.
    How are things with logic?
  35. -5
    16 March 2026 17: 03
    The armies of capitalist countries wage war in a capitalist manner, which is to say, in a completely dishonest and criminal manner. Everything lines up: the United States is a developed capitalist country, Iran is a country with underdeveloped capitalism, whose economy once had elements of socialism. Therefore, it is more civilized, while the United States is a capitalist country, and therefore barbaric. "We kill for pleasure" – Donald Trump, the leading American capitalist.
    1. -3
      16 March 2026 17: 16
      Ukraine is a country that has completely rejected the legacy of the Soviet era and embraced a neo-Nazi ideology based on the idea of ​​a flag or simply self-enrichment (mainly at the expense of oligarchs and businessmen). Since 2014, the country has been waging war on the side of the richest capitalist countries, a war Russia once wanted to join, but appears to have abandoned. The question is what direction Russia will choose next...
  36. -3
    16 March 2026 17: 30
    Not a bad analysis. I think our guys are working on their mistakes. Although, you can't learn overnight. There might still be mistakes. But, in the end, we'll learn. The road is mastered by the one who walks it.
  37. +7
    16 March 2026 19: 41
    Yes, the losses of the Black Sea Fleet were not so impressive,

    Author, are you serious?
  38. +4
    16 March 2026 20: 25
    Quote: Boris55
    The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

    Quote: multicaat
    Do you deny the fact that there were attacks on Novorossiysk?

    No. There were attacks, and the attackers shit themselves. They're out of diapers, and they don't dare launch new attacks.

    I wonder if this commentator works full-time here and part-time at the circus, or vice versa?! lol
  39. +4
    16 March 2026 23: 50
    Well, I don't know, the article smacks of amateurism. "It's quite sufficient to surface"... Why would a nuclear submarine, a carrier of nuclear weapons, need to surface? To scare pirates away from a tanker belonging to a privately owned oil and gas oligarchy? What a preschooler...
  40. 0
    17 March 2026 02: 06
    "The fact is that practice has shown that the "mosquito" fleet is unable to defend itself from air strikes, and often from water strikes as well,"
    ////////////////////////
    The obvious step is to strengthen the ship's air defenses as much as possible with MANPADS systems—several for each crew member... The "mosquito fleet" must be numerous. At least a hundred per fleet. And they are built quickly and are cheaper than larger units... New submarine detection techniques must be employed in defense against submarines. Use several ships to work together—three units are best for reliable acoustic direction finding (when three projections converge on a single point). As for anti-submarine weapons, I remember the TF parades in Vladivostok from the 1960s to the 2000s, and even today, those old-fashioned bomb launchers are the primary weapon against submarines... Of course, homing mini-munitions guided by optical fiber are long overdue. Then the mosquito fleet will become a deadly weapon against submarines.
  41. 0
    17 March 2026 10: 08
    Quote: Dany Corvus
    Today, a missile ship is simply a means of delivering missiles to the desired launch site. A single ship must be covered from land and air, or it must be part of a battle group that includes ships specialized in anti-submarine and anti-aircraft defense.

    The missile itself is a delivery vehicle; if its range allows it, it does not need a carrier in the form of a ship or an airplane; a ground-based launcher is sufficient (then everything will be orders of magnitude simpler and cheaper). By the way, the Persian Gulf, like the Black Sea or the Baltic Sea, are not large in size.
  42. +1
    17 March 2026 12: 02
    It may sound paradoxical, but we must learn from our mistakes, but be guided by the principle that it is not the one who makes mistakes who is stupid, but the one who repeats them.
  43. 0
    17 March 2026 16: 08
    And since the US calmly sank 16 Iranian ships without losing a single aircraft

    How could these planes be lost if they were not within the air defense zone?
    The surface ships' mission is to track enemy ships. During a threat period, the Dena and Shirazi will be within point-blank range of US aircraft carriers or their bases, and upon the outbreak of hostilities, they will immediately launch their entire ammunition supply at enemy carriers, cruisers, or ships.
    For this mission, they should have a maximum supply of strike weapons and a minimum crew. If possible, even without a crew, even better.
  44. 0
    18 March 2026 03: 59
    Moscow was also sunk without a declaration of war.
    1. 0
      18 March 2026 20: 05
      Quote: Vladimir_Semenovich
      Moscow was also sunk without a declaration of war.

      Did the US officially declare war? I don't think anyone declares anything anymore; they call it a special operation. They wanted to, they bombed, they wanted to, then they stopped. I wonder if peace can be signed without declaring war?
  45. +1
    18 March 2026 21: 02
    We must understand. This is not a US war, this is an Israeli war. How this cunning Jew manages to set up the US is unknown. But Trump bought it, and now the US has image problems. It is simply a matter of time and resources that they will crush Iran. The Jews, by the way, have problems with this too. Israel is not ready for a total war of attrition, again all hope is on the US. But Trump's enemies in Congress are not asleep, and as soon as oil flies over 200 rupees, he will begin to have serious problems. The question is who will lose their nerve first and who is ready to go to the end in this situation. He will be the winner. And now the parties to the conflict are bluffing. Iran has great hopes on the Middle Eastern monarchies, supposedly they will be unhappy with the disturbed balance and will put pressure on the US. A controversial view, especially since the US has already bit the bit and does not care about monarchs here with Sort things out with your congressmen. Basically, Trump is in deep trouble in this mess started by the cunning Jews. But they will also get it badly if the fighting drags on. A window of opportunity is opening up for the Russian army. No one cares right now, Ukraine should just sort itself out.
  46. 0
    19 March 2026 21: 38
    The current surface fleet is everything. The bigger the ship, the bigger the target, and the more money down the drain.
    And especially aircraft carriers, like monsters absorbing elephantine doses of military budgets
    And if such ships and aircraft carriers are needed somewhere, it is definitely not tied to the docks, but on the ocean communications, covering their own merchant fleet and sinking the same fleet of the enemy.
    It's true that the lifespan of such ships and crews is rapidly decreasing. Too many threats have appeared.
    The argument that ships can be protected by air defense is generally a poor one, because no matter how imperfect such protection is for a surface ship, it lacks a sustainable reserve. In other words, any such defense can be overcome much more easily than air defense covering the shore. The cost of missiles and drones, running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, would reduce the value of a ship by hundreds of millions, if that were the goal.
    This is probably the largest crisis in the history of warfare. Air power and everything that flies have defeated the navy and everything that walks on water. It's even larger than the stalemate of maneuver warfare after Verdun.
  47. +1
    19 March 2026 21: 39
    The current surface fleet is everything. The bigger the ship, the bigger the target, and the more money down the drain.
    And especially aircraft carriers, like monsters absorbing elephantine doses of military budgets
    And if such ships and aircraft carriers are needed somewhere, it is definitely not tied to the docks, but on the ocean communications, covering their own merchant fleet and sinking the same fleet of the enemy.
    It's true that the lifespans of such ships and crews are rapidly shrinking. Too many threats have appeared.
    The argument that ships can be protected by air defense is generally a poor man's idea, because no matter how imperfect such protection is for a surface ship, it lacks a sustainable reserve. In other words, any such defense can be overcome much more easily than air defense covering the shore. The cost of missiles and drones, running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, would reduce the value of a ship by hundreds of millions, if that were the goal.
    This is probably the largest crisis in the history of warfare. Air power and everything that flies have defeated the navy and everything that walks on water. It's even larger than the stalemate of maneuver warfare after Verdun.
  48. 0
    19 March 2026 23: 24
    The best cover for any type of ship is an aircraft carrier in the center of the squadron. 🙄