Military Review

Seven myths about foreign investment, or “Foreigners will help us”

76
Seven myths about foreign investment, or “Foreigners will help us”The topic of foreign investment is one of the main points in our media. When such investments are felled in Russia (as it was, for example, during the 2007-2008 period), our journalists (and many “professional” economists along with them) like the children are happy and expect to build a “bright” capitalist future. " When the flow of foreign investment dries out and / or investors leave Russia, they are sad and start singing mantras on the topic: “we need to improve the investment climate in Russia,” “we need to create favorable conditions for foreign investors,” “we need to attract foreign capital,” etc. . etc. In a word: “foreigners will help us,” and without it, we will languish on the sidelines of world progress. It seems that for almost two decades of the celebration of “freedom of speech” in Russia, the media have done their dirty deed: my even the most “advanced” students begin to talk about foreign investment in the classroom using the stamps of the famous “professional” economist Yassin. As far as I can, I try to explain to them the meaning of these stamps and explain how things really are with foreign investments in Russia. In total, these most significant stamps, or myths recruited a dozen. I want to increase the efficiency their teaching work and reveal the meaning of these myths, not only to their students, but also to curious users of the Internet.


Myth one

This myth can be formulated something like this: “Foreign investment contributes to solving the structural problems of the Russian economy.” It means that investments are primarily in the real sector of the economy and contribute to the development of the material and technical base of the manufacturing industry (reconstruction of existing enterprises, expansion of production capacities, introduction of new technologies in order to increase production efficiency, the creation of high-tech industries, etc. ). And, over time, this will allow Russia to turn from a raw material country into an industrial power exporting machinery and equipment, other high-tech products.

Alas, the wish is given for real. Let us resort to such a source as Rosstat. According to him, the loans of foreign banks to Russian organizations for making various investments in 2008 were really a very impressive number: 2.563,8 billion rubles. If you round it up, it's 2,5 trillion rubles! And if you recalculate for dollars at the rate of 1 US dollars = 30 rubles, then you get an impressive amount of 85,5 billion dollars! Yes, with the help of such foreign investments within ten years it is possible to carry out full-fledged industrialization! Cleaner Stalin. However, I must disappoint our readers. Almost 93 percent of all these loans were issued for investments in the so-called "financial assets", i.e. in securities transactions. And on investment in fixed assets (physical assets), only about 7 percent.

A corrosive reader will say: maybe those very financial investments are long-term investments in stocks and bonds of Russian enterprises and, ultimately, are intended for our “capitalist industrialization”? Once again, it should upset readers: almost all loans (approximately 98 percent) are intended for "short-term financial investments." This is the official language of Rosstat. And in the “everyday” language these are banal financial speculations, which not only do not help the real sector of the economy, but, on the contrary, hinder its development, since cause periodic ups and downs in the market quotations of these enterprises, introducing complete disruption to production and leading even profitable enterprises to bankruptcy. So that an unprepared reader has a clearer idea of ​​what “financial investment” is, I remind you: in 1997-1998. in Russia there was a boom in the securities market called GKO (Ministry of Finance Obligations). This boom ended miserably - a crisis. But foreign investors very well then heated their hands on speculations with T-bills, having withdrawn tens of billions of our hard-earned money from the country (T-bills were repaid from the state budget).

Second myth

“Foreign investors are investing in fixed assets and, thus, contribute to the development of production, technical progress, product updates, etc. etc.". If we turn to the same Rosstat or the Bank of Russia, then these organizations will satisfy our curiosity about the real scale of foreign investment in fixed assets (ie, buildings, structures, cars, equipment, vehicles and other property characterized by long periods of time). use). It seems to be also a lot (although an order of magnitude less than investing in financial speculation). But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of the so-called “investments in fixed assets” do not create this capital (fixed assets), but only lead to the transfer of already created (in the Soviet period) stories) objects from one hand to another. Russian enterprises have become an object of speculative operations, and their new owners are not thinking about improving production, but about how to increase (using financial technologies) the market quotes of the purchased company and more profitable to resell it. Previously, speculated with wheat, oil, gold and other goods, now they speculate with large enterprises. Russian enterprises today are being "driven" not by production workers, but by "financial geniuses."

One consolation: this happens all over the world. According to expert estimates, in the past decade only 1 from 5 dollars of direct investment (fixed investment, giving the investor control over the enterprise) was directed to the creation of new objects, and 4 dollars were used to purchase existing ones. Approximately this layout is observed for foreign direct investment in Russia. Thus, foreign investment in fixed assets does not mean the economic development of Russia, but the purchase of its enterprises and the establishment of control over the Russian economy by transnational corporations. And “professional” economists, such as Mr. Yassin, create a “noise curtain” that allows covering up the investment intervention of Western capital in Russia.

The third myth

"Foreign investment is the money that comes from abroad." Sometimes foreign investment is indeed a movement of money from one country to another in order to invest in financial or non-financial assets in the latter. But not always and not in all countries. Yes, at some point in time, money really comes into the country, crossing its border (sometimes virtual, since today international payments and payments are an electronic signal transmission). And then the foreign investor may already exist in the host country rather autonomously, expanding its operations at the expense of the profits received in the host country. He can make new investments by reinvesting profits.

And now we turn to the data of Rosstat. According to this organization, in 2000, investments in fixed assets of organizations with foreign capital participation by more than 60% were secured by profits received in Russia, and only by 40% due to the influx of new capital into our country from abroad. In 2005, this proportion became equal to 80: 20, and in 2008, 75: 25. In other words, foreign investors are strengthening in Russia by exploiting the natural and human resources of our country. We can also say: we, with our wealth and our work, help foreigners to take root even deeper in the Russian economy. And our statistics considers domestic sources of financing of enterprises with the participation of foreign capital as “foreign investments”. On paper, it turns out that “abroad helps us,” but in reality it’s the other way around: we help to enrich abroad at the expense of our people:

- our ancestors (past work, embodied in fixed assets created in the years of industrialization),

- the current generation (living labor),

- our children and grandchildren (natural resources and debts on today's loans).

Fourth myth

"The presence of foreign capital in our country is small and, therefore, does not pose any threat to the Russian economy and the security of Russia as a whole." This myth is needed in order to provide an ideological cover for the ongoing investment aggression of the West, which leads to the rapid strengthening of the position of foreign capital in Russia. Again, we turn to Rosstat. A few years ago, he began to publish statistical data on the authorized capital of the main sectors and sectors of the Russian economy, including in the context of ownership. For some reason, these figures are extremely rare in the media, so I will cite some of them. In 2009, the share of enterprises with foreign capital (those where foreigners control) in the total aggregate share capital of all sectors of the Russian economy was equal to 25%. I do not know about you, but this figure impresses me. Although it is clear that this is "the average temperature of the hospital." Look at the individual sectors and industries. This share of foreigners ("non-residents") in mining is 59%! We say that we are a raw material country. Maybe, but the extraction of raw materials, minerals is no longer in our hands. Further. For all branches of the manufacturing industry, the indicator we considered in 2009 was 41%! And what is behind this average figure? In the food industry, the share of foreigners in the authorized capital was 60%, in textile and clothing - 54%, in the production of coke and petroleum products - 50%, in the wholesale and retail trade - 67%. So the situation is critical and even catastrophic. Practically in many industries we already have very little. I think that the real situation is much worse even than that represented by the statistics of Rosstat. Because many so-called “Russian” companies are actually managed by offshore firms, which may be backed by transnational corporations and banks. For some reason, neither the government, nor the State Duma, the data of Rosstat I presented are not discussed. Moreover, all kinds of initiatives about “attracting foreign investors” to the country continue to emanate from these bodies of state power.

Credits and loans today also belong to the category of “investments”. I’m not going to talk about the threat of the growing threat of foreign debt formed by Western loans and borrowings, because everything seems to be understandable here.

Fifth myth

“Foreign investors need to create various privileges and privileges so that they have conditions equal to those that Russian investors have.” In fact, many countries of the world do not hesitate to provide preferences to their own, domestic investors. But oh well. Our "highly moral" authorities pretend that they care about "universal and complete equality" everywhere and in everything. But in this case, they need to take care to put in equal conditions the domestic investor, who is still in Russia as an unloved child. There are many reasons for this inequality (not in favor of the domestic investor). For example, a Russian investor cannot use cheap financial resources that a western investor can get from many different sources. For example, in development banks (such a bank was established several years ago on the basis of the well-known VEB, but it clearly does not favor Russian investors). The Bank of Russia actually organized a “credit blockade” against Russian enterprises (this topic is extensive, I will not develop it here). But perhaps the most important preference for foreign investors in our economic space is the undervaluation of the ruble against the dollar and other reserve currencies. And it is underestimated, at least, twice in relation to the US dollar (if we compare at purchasing power parity). This means that a foreign investor can acquire Russian assets on very favorable terms (in fact, two times cheaper, since he changes foreign currency into rubles, which are necessary for buying at a preferential, undervalued rate). I do not want to further delve into the intricacies of the exchange rate. I think the reader, and so understood, that the Russian authorities for bona fide domestic investors - that wicked stepmother.

Myth Six

"We need foreign investment because the country lacks its own resources." Those who have learned at least the basics of the economy know that the gross social product (gross domestic product) produced in the country is divided into two major parts from the point of view of its use: a) current consumption (what is eaten, drunk, wears, consumed in during this year); b) the remaining part, which is called savings, and which is intended for future use. The second part of the GDP is the source of investments directed to the creation of new, expansion and improvement of existing industries. Some countries almost completely “eat up” their created GDP and there is little left for them to invest (or investments are made through external borrowing). And in some countries a very large part of GDP is saved, which gives them the opportunity to make large-scale investments. In Russia, the saved part of GDP is 30-35%. Compared with most countries (especially against the background of Western countries), this is a very solid part. But if we turn to all the same Rosstat, we will see that about half of the saved part is actually spent on investments in fixed assets. And where did the second half disappear? She went to finance the economies of other countries, almost exclusively economically developed countries. How does it look in real life? The Central Bank of Russia, managing huge foreign exchange reserves (derived from the export of oil and other raw materials; today it is about 500 billion dollars), places them in the West, providing low-interest lending (and often, taking into account inflation and exchange rate changes, under negative percentage) of economies of other countries. Thus, half of the investment potential of Russia is used to "help" the West, which does not limit "itself beloved" in consumption. In fact, this “help” can be viewed as a tribute that our country, having lost the “cold war”, is forced to pay to the winners, primarily America. By the way, part of this our "help" comes back to us "from abroad" in the form of predatory loans. With our own hands, we drive ourselves into debt bondage!

Using the example of this myth, we once again see that in a real economic situation, everything is exactly “the opposite” compared to what “professional” economists and “Russian” media inspire us.

Seventh myth

"Foreign investment is a stream of financial resources from other countries to Russia." Many myths are built on the fact that half the truth is said, and the other half is hushed up. This is clearly seen in the example of this myth. Yes, foreign investment is the movement of financial resources “from there” in the direction of “here”. But we have already noted above (the third myth) that a significant part of foreign investment “feeds” at the expense of internal, rather than external resources (reinvestment of enterprises with foreign capital). In addition, our Russian myth-makers always carefully avoid such an unpleasant question as the transfer by foreign investors of income received in Russia abroad. These revenues consist of interest on loans, dividends, rental and franchise payments, etc. So, according to the Bank of Russia, for the period 1995-2010. The total investment income withdrawn by foreigners from our country amounted to 513 billion. (On average per year, it turns out 32 billion.) A gigantic value exceeding the value of all gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Russian Federation today. Also for comparison: the accumulated foreign direct investment in Russia on 01.01. 2010 (the latest available data from the Bank of Russia) amounted to 382 billion dollars.

Thus, foreign investment is like a pump abandoned by Western corporations in the Russian economy. In 1990-s. Western investors have been “warning in advance”, have actively participated in the Russian privatization (buying up assets for a pittance) and launched the “financial pump”, which regularly bled Russia and prolongs the life of the West. For example, investments in fixed assets of organizations with foreign participation in Russia in 2008 amounted to 1.176 billion rubles, the bulk of which was provided through reinvestment; funds transferred from abroad accounted for only 304 billion rubles. With the exchange rate of the ruble against the dollar 30: 1, it turns out that from abroad came funds for investments in fixed assets of about $ 10 billion. And the aggregate investment incomes of non-residents (foreigners) in the Russian Federation, according to the Bank of Russia, in the same year 2008 amounted to 88,7 billion dollars. Here is a vivid statistical illustration of how foreign investment acts as a “financial pump”

At this point, I temporarily put an end to the listing and disclosure of myths relating to the topic of foreign investment in Russia. There are many other myths, but they all boil down to the phrase of one of the heroes of Ilf and Petrov: "Foreigners will help us." I tried not to go into many subtleties that are interesting only to professional economists and financiers. The problems we have examined, of course, also have a political, social, legal, and spiritual-moral dimension. For example, it is necessary to think about why our people today voluntarily pay for that “rope” (the purchase of Russian assets at the expense of our own funds), on which tomorrow the same “foreign investors” will convince him to hang himself (and voluntarily). With the help of statistics and economic categories this can not be explained. The reasons lie in the spiritual realm. I invite everyone to a wide (not only economic) discussion and is ready to answer questions.
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  1. Sibiryak
    Sibiryak 14 May 2013 06: 43
    20
    Everything is clear with foreign investments, but I am interested in another question - where are the state’s own investments in its development ?! For some reason, our leaders do not say much about them, from this we can draw appropriate conclusions about their effectiveness. Tired of fairy tales about the lack of money in the state, it is time to return the national bank to the hands of the state and to drive all liberals without exception, and not only in the back home from leading posts.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 14 May 2013 07: 43
      11
      Quote: Sibiryak
      Tired of tales about the lack of money in the state,

      Do not mistake for the intention to study Russia, in Ukraine in the same way. And all that is needed is to gather the will into a fist and shake all the embezzlers well. And there are many of them. Yes, there you can triple the treasury!
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 14 May 2013 09: 36
        +4
        "And all that is necessary is to gather the will into a fist and shake well all the embezzlers." You can't shake that easily in Russia No. Our embezzlers are carefully protected by the police, choppers, and corrupt judges. The country has a systemic crisis, the number of embezzlers is such that the state cannot clean itself. Only cardinal methods can help, but even for mentioning them in comments, they can be planted!
        http://demotivation.me/8o0ze4w94n87pic.html#.UZHWwUrvvlc
      2. fortunophile
        fortunophile 14 May 2013 09: 52
        +5
        Quote: Egoza
        Do not mistake for the intention to study Russia, in Ukraine in the same way. And all that is needed is to gather the will into a fist and shake all the embezzlers well. And there are many of them. Yes, there you can triple the treasury!

        To shake up the embezzlers, it is necessary that at least our rulers do not interfere. It comes to ridiculousness with this circus around the plundered billions of the Ministry of Defense, Chubais is generally "unsinkable" can use this quality for good purposes and knit him to the bottom of Kuzi on long campaigns laughing
        By the way, here are the latest news about Chubais and investments:
        The head of the Rusnano company Anatoly Chubais sent to the government a draft of the Basic Strategy of the Open Joint Stock Company Rusnano until 2020, which states that in seven years, Rusnano will become a fully private company, and the proceeds from the sale of nanoproducts will increase 10 times write "Izvestia".

        In accordance with the Strategy, the privatization of Rusnano will take place in two stages. At the first stage, it is planned to sell 10% of the shares of the state capital international and Russian investors through private placement until the end of this year

        Do I need to remind you how much money is "sucked" by Rusnano from the country's budget?
        1. Egen
          Egen 14 May 2013 13: 55
          +3
          Quote: fortuneophile
          revenue from the sale of nanoproducts will increase 10 times

          ... "the main product will be a microscope through which the rest of the manufactured products can be viewed" :)
      3. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak 14 May 2013 10: 21
        0
        Quote: Egoza
        And all that is needed is to gather the will into a fist and shake all the embezzlers well.

        Here’s last year’s video, 74 minutes, long but fair


        He really wants this to happen as soon as possible.
        1. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 14 May 2013 11: 40
          +2
          Quote: Hedgehog
          Here’s last year’s video, 74 minutes, long,

          Interestingly, and marked with a "minus", it (video) had time to watch ??? As I noticed, 74 minutes have not passed since the publication and since the assessment appeared. The dollar supporter noted, but not Russia, everything is clear.
          1. alexng
            alexng 14 May 2013 14: 20
            +2
            Do not be offended by him Yezhak, he is a "kind man".

            Somehow kind Mowgli walked through the jungle and found an elephant in a deep hole.
            I couldn’t pull out the elephant, but I filled the hole so that no one else got into it.
            1. Ezhaak
              Ezhaak 14 May 2013 14: 33
              +1
              Quote: alexneg
              Don't be offended by him

              I have long known the truth that they carry water on offended people.

              By the way, before filling up the hole, the good Mowgli cut off the trunk. He will no longer need the baby elephant, but Mowgli will not die of hunger for a long time!
    2. Papakiko
      Papakiko 14 May 2013 08: 11
      +6
      Quote: Sibiryak
      Tired of tales about the lack of money in the state

      Strongly valid thesis!
      Anyone wishing to proceed to the address below and familiarize themselves with the situation with the "investment". Of course, all completeness and color rendition are not visible, but in general terms, more than understandable.
      http://sdelanounas.ru/

      There is such an investment example:

      There is also a video about the effects of a meteorite fall.
    3. Orik
      Orik 14 May 2013 08: 19
      +8
      There is money in the state, there is no national loan ...
      1. Egen
        Egen 14 May 2013 14: 00
        +1
        Quote: Orik
        There is money in the state, there is no national loan

        Guys you are wrong, it was Louis who said "the state is me", which meant: my money is the state's money, and the state's money is mine, but now the meaning of this phrase is somewhat different ....... :)
        1. Strezhevchanin
          Strezhevchanin 14 May 2013 20: 28
          +1
          Quote: Egen
          "the state is me"

          Well, firstly, the constitution does not allow us, secondly, our power is extremely heterogeneous, the brain clogged with a global project has borne fruit, namely the swan, pike and cancer have their own vision of the world order. IDEOLOGY is what our country needs now, and perhaps the whole world.
    4. fortunophile
      fortunophile 14 May 2013 08: 41
      +5
      Quote: Sibiryak
      Everything is clear with foreign investments, but I am interested in another question - where are the state’s own investments in its development ?!

      I’m also wondering how it turns out that our Great and Infallibles and practically raised to the rank of “uncritical” by some Johnny low-voltage allow Western companies to buy shelves with natural resources in Russia for a penny (such as investments) and at the same time give out billions of dollars to banana republics , which are then written off due to the impossibility of return. Why is Russia investing money in American securities at scanty interest rates, while granting loans to its population at 20-65%?
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 14 May 2013 09: 58
        +3
        I'm not an economist by education, but how much I could understand this issue:
        "The money of the Stabilization Fund is in US banks"
        the answer is simple, it is here: http://www.minfin.ru/ru/stabfund/about/
        those. they are not stored in any US banks; these are debt instruments that are liquid and traded on the stock exchange.

        another moment
        Russia gets rid of US Treasury bonds
        http://newzz.in.ua/mir/1148830355-rossija-izbavljaetsja-ot-cennykh-bumag-ssha.ht

        ml

        info, on request, in bulk

        Here is another interesting article on the topic:
        http://news2.ru/story/105427/

        tales about the loot of the Russian Federation in the United States a big myth
      2. Strezhevchanin
        Strezhevchanin 14 May 2013 20: 31
        +1
        Quote: fortuneophile
        I’m also wondering how it turns out that our Great and Infallible

        Something needs to be changed !!!!
    5. vezunchik
      vezunchik 14 May 2013 11: 21
      +2
      And what money is buying up property abroad and keeping a family ???
    6. Garrin
      Garrin 14 May 2013 11: 51
      +3
      Quote: Sibiryak
      but I’m interested in another question - where is the state’s own investment in its development ?!

      Where? - Q .... Reply to the rhyme?
      And so, in Sochi, in Skolkovo, the APEC summit, in annually washed away roads, in the World Cup for football, etc., in short, in all the places vital for Russia right now. am
      1. Egen
        Egen 14 May 2013 14: 02
        +2
        Quote: Garrin
        Where where? - In .... And so, in Sochi

        but as far as I understood from the speeches, a large share of the money in Sochi is not from the state budget, but allocated by companies such as Gazprom, Rosneft, etc. by order of the state - i.e. this is other money, extra :)
    7. honest jew
      honest jew 14 May 2013 12: 44
      +8
      Old Man must be in the presidency, then the money will be found for industrialization !!!
    8. Joker
      Joker 14 May 2013 16: 02
      +1
      The article is a complete lie, because the great and terrible SAM itself said that it is necessary to attract foreign investment, but it never lies, well, maybe a little bit.
    9. Troitsky
      Troitsky 15 May 2013 19: 52
      0
      for this, the chairman of the Central Bank and made Nabiullina. here she will take office on June 23, let's hope for the result
  2. Sirocco
    Sirocco 14 May 2013 07: 06
    +9
    As shown, but for some reason does not teach us, history. The West in the person of the EU, and others, has never done anything good for Russia, and has never done good intentions. And they just put us sticks in the wheels, and organized either crusades, or democratic, military campaigns against Russia, striving under good intentions to enslave, or even completely destroy our people as a nation. The latest example of the Second World War, combat losses amounted to about 7 million, and 20 million, this is the loss of civilian population. Here you have the genocide of the Russian population from Europe. So well-intentioned road to hell bridges. And not along the way for us with Europe and its latest values ​​(transmission, and pedophilia). About businessmen from Europe, or about the fact that the West will help us, I will say this. Only the chicken is rowing from itself, all the others are just for itself. So we will not amuse ourselves with kind and disinterested businessmen from the EU.
  3. V. Ushakov
    V. Ushakov 14 May 2013 07: 15
    +1
    Let's help ourselves. It is more reliable and more profitable. And technology - you can buy from China, or, as in the good old days - simply - steal. Shameful, in such a theft, there is nothing. The same China - has been using this method for about 40 years and - it turns out pretty well ...
  4. Strashila
    Strashila 14 May 2013 07: 16
    +8
    What kind of investment ??? Officially, according to a smart aunt from the TV screen, over the past year they amounted to about 500 lyam of green in their pure form ... and not even billions ... while the investments of Russian companies (oil industry and gas industry) in their production assets amounted to about! 85 billion greens!,? only in howling Iraq about 5 billion ?, now we’ll add about 100 billion successfully stranded and hackneyed over a hill, we’ll add about 20 billion migrants' transfers ... and that 200 billion leaked from the country ... in a year, not counting the tax shortfall due to various offshore companies, the same is not a small amount of money ... and tell me who will invest in the country throwing hundreds of billions of convertible dough. The country does not need investments, sensible and strong-willed leaders are needed ... preferably orphans.
    Like a classic ... "Our country is rich, only there is no order", as long as these lines, but everything does not change in the life of the country.
    1. Papakiko
      Papakiko 14 May 2013 07: 59
      +1
      Quote: Strashila
      The country does not need investments, sensible and strong-willed leaders are needed ... preferably orphans.

      EtoZHZHZH how many "managers" need to be orphaned!
      Investments are NECESSARY for the country! For investments, especially direct ones, this is not a bank loan with%. It’s even stupid to discuss it.
      Explanatory-volitional, through which unit to sort them then? wink
      1. Sol
        Sol 14 May 2013 08: 15
        +2
        Good afternoon!
        And the COUNTRY needs them?
        If the old fashioned way, investments are needed for the "basis", but not a single foreign investor will invest in our industry: firstly, "long" money, and secondly, who will allow him to do it.
        And "short" investments - read the whole article again))

        Yours faithfully,
        1. Egen
          Egen 14 May 2013 14: 21
          +3
          Quote: sol
          And the COUNTRY needs them?


          Quote: Papakiko
          Investment country NEEDED!

          And who will give them straight lines ?! I have been working on foreign investments for 15 years, so there are no particular fools to invest in Russia! At least in production, at least in "short-term finance" - the risks are poured, sorry for the expression, no investment climate, state aid to investors, crime, kickbacks ... Even those foreigners with whom I worked who threw money in the Russian Federation could not understand how business is done in Russia. It's like in Electronics - "but where is his button" :) Well, it doesn't fit in their head, as Zadornov said - a smart guy :)
          15 years ago, he drafted a local investment law - how much we tormented him! Everything seems to be simple, a couple of pages, but to dock with other laws - e-mine! And he still has practically no effect, because even Russian is not easy to understand, and even more so for a foreigner! :)
    2. djon3volta
      djon3volta 14 May 2013 08: 45
      -2
      Quote: Strashila
      The country does not need investments

      let's take a look at our (our) beloved China, would it rise if it weren’t for overseas investments? no rose.
      1. Sol
        Sol 14 May 2013 08: 58
        +1
        and in what he rose ?! if you reasonably think, then this is a huge industrial site with Chinese hands and "foreign heads" (that is, technologies that are not transferred). the "pens" themselves cannot develop this, and therefore, with the latest decisions of the Central Committee of the PDC, all "benefactors" were obliged to update all equipment and technological processes over 7 years old, or to get rid of cheap "pens".
        We cannot count on the role of the "industrial site" - the potential is not the same))
      2. Egen
        Egen 14 May 2013 14: 30
        0
        Quote: djon3volta
        China, would it rise if it weren’t for overseas investments? The answer is no, it didn’t.

        John is already out of habit all minus :))
        But here you are right, the namesake is the same as Sol: in China, the same Americans from the 80's had swelled half of what China has today. But this is the difference between us and him: the Americans first exported manufactures to reduce the cost of goods consumed by them in the United States, and then switched to the export of capital. Now, probably (not completely up to date, behind the times), the Americans have moved to the last, 6-th stage of international business - the export of technologies and ideas (Russia, by the way, according to this classification at the 2 / 3-th stage - enter the market and what- then buy / go out there and sell something there).
        And to Russia today, who for what and what will push, what at least does America make any sense to anyone? In oil and gas - that’s how they themselves are going to export them in five years, i.e. they themselves invested in their strategic industry (which they lacked) - and well done :(
        1. Sol
          Sol 14 May 2013 15: 59
          +1
          yeah). we would first need to stipulate: what everyone understands by the word INVESTMENT (investing in newly created means of production, not buying stocks, bonds, etc.) is my option, and what everyone understands by the words "INVESTMENT TO THE COUNTRY", and then discuss article.
  5. Curculum
    Curculum 14 May 2013 07: 25
    +2
    Hello, everybody!
    I would like to clarify some points:
    loans of foreign banks to Russian organizations for various investments in 2008 amounted to a really very impressive figure: 2.563,8 billion rubles.

    Investments - long-term capital investments for profit.
    Credit - the transfer of capital for temporary use with the condition of repayment after a certain time and with the payment of interest for the use of capital.
    It turns out that the author combined two terms that are different in essence and meaning - in my opinion, this is unacceptable.
    1. Rrv
      Rrv 14 May 2013 11: 12
      0
      loans of foreign banks to Russian organizations for various investments in 2008 amounted to a really very impressive figure: 2.563,8 billion rubles.
      It turns out that the author combined two terms that are different in essence and meaning - in my opinion, this is unacceptable.


      The main investment instruments are lending and investing in securities, that is, either pushing an enterprise into a debt hole, or buying part or all of an enterprise.

      And since Pu and Me regularly urge foreign capital to invest in Russia, the conclusion suggests itself.
      1. Egen
        Egen 14 May 2013 14: 41
        0
        Quote: RRV
        The main investment instruments are lending and investment in securities

        Yes absolutely nifiga like that, where did you get that ?! It is only abroad! Because they have developed this institution - stock quotation on the stock exchange, the value of the shares there reflects the processes within the enterprise, its market position, prospects, etc. This is a whole system like that.
        And we have ? - Yes, even those whose shares are somewhere on the stock exchange do not really reflect nicerts and it’s not clear, in principle, such an institution is absent in the Russian Federation. And about the rest there is nothing to say - I think many of those present know how reporting is being drawn in our country ...

        "I invite everyone to a broad (not only economic) discussion and am ready to answer questions."
        but in general, on 100% I agree with the author, although in general this is all clear, it just can’t be put on the shelves ... But even John generally agrees with this all :)), so alas, you don’t need to discuss us and not here :(
        1. Rrv
          Rrv 14 May 2013 16: 44
          0
          And what have quotes to do with it? The bottom line is that any investment is either a debt hole or a purchase of an enterprise (part or all). Shares can be purchased on the stock exchange, or you can directly from the owner - we basically practice the latter option.
          1. Egen
            Egen 15 May 2013 08: 49
            0
            Quote: RRV
            And what have quotes to do with it


            So despite the fact that the quote, in principle, and abroad, it reflects the parameters of the company and its attractiveness for investment. We do not have. Therefore, only the last option remains :)
      2. Curculum
        Curculum 14 May 2013 16: 50
        0
        Quote: RRV
        The main investment tools are lending ...

        The purpose of lending: obtaining benefits from the temporary use of capital with minimizing risks for the lender, which also implies the existence of conditions guaranteeing the return of capital taken with interest. In other words, to obtain a loan, conditions are necessary (in one form or another) to ensure repayment of the loan, taking into account the so-called credit rate.
        Of course, an investor can attract loan or borrowed capital, for which he pledges his funds and other funds - but these are his risks, to which investment object has no relationotherwise, the investor turns into a creditor, and this is another song.
        Quote: RRV
        that is, either pushing an enterprise into a debt hole, or buying part or all of an enterprise.

        Above, I pointed out that there will be no "debt hole" when investing.
        In addition, the relationship between the parties to the investment is regulated by the Federal Law of November 28, 2011 N 335-FZ "On Investment Partnership", which came into force on 01.01.2012. This is what they call "Pu for a couple with Me".
        1. Rrv
          Rrv 14 May 2013 18: 00
          0
          Any investment in order to make a profit is an investment, so the lender, in relation to the subject under discussion, is always an investor.

          And the law cited by you is definitely not the same: in relation to the topic under discussion, this is the Federal Law of July 9, 1999 N 160 "On Foreign Investments in the Russian Federation."
          1. Curculum
            Curculum 14 May 2013 21: 46
            +1
            Quote: RRV
            Any investment for profit is an investment

            Those. if a bank gives me a loan to buy a car, and then receives from me both the "body of the loan" and the interest rate (while the car is pledged) - is he my investor? But after all, I'm not credited for making a profit, but for getting comfort and speed of movement, the sources of my profit are completely different, not related to this car - can you see the difference? After all, only the bank has profit, I have only expenses.
            Quote: RRV
            so that the lender, in relation to the subject under discussion, is always an investor.

            No, credit and investment are two different things; I proved it to you above.
            Quote: RRV
            And the law cited by you is definitely not the same: in relation to the topic under discussion, this is the Federal Law of July 9, 1999 N 160 "On Foreign Investments in the Russian Federation."

            If you are in vain, read article 1 of the Federal Law that I indicated, everything is written there.
            1. Rrv
              Rrv 14 May 2013 23: 11
              0
              Quote: Kurkul
              After all, only a bank has profit, I have only expenses.


              Your investment - comfort and speed of movement - is your profit and benefit: if it weren’t profitable for you, you wouldn’t buy a car.
              You regard the profit and benefit exclusively as cash or non-cash money, but this is not true: investments can be made in education, health, emotions - the profit and profit can be different.
              In any case, the one who invests in you to receive any profit for yourself is certainly your investor. When you invest your money in government bonds, you are thereby lending to the state, when you open a business for your money, you are investing your money in your business.


              If you are in vain, read article 1 of the Federal Law that I indicated, everything is written there.


              Vitaly, the law you cited refers specifically to "simple partnerships", that is, to entities (individual, small and medium-sized businesses) investing in a common business, regulates relations between them and refers primarily to local entities (Part 2, Article 1).
              The activities of foreign entities are affected in part 4 of article 3 of the law you cited.
              However, there are investors who are not united in partnerships (large capital) and the 160th Federal Law applies to them.
              1. Curculum
                Curculum 15 May 2013 01: 57
                0
                Quote: RRV
                Your investment - comfort and speed of movement - is your profit and benefit: if it weren’t profitable for you, you wouldn’t buy a car.

                I have to disagree: in this context, comfort and speed of movement do not correlate with the material profit and benefit that the bank receives. Investing, on the other hand, implies the equivalent or relative share-making profit from production, about which the article is written. Those. the real sector of the economy is considered.
                Quote: RRV
                investments can be made in education, health, emotions

                It remains to add that "emotional" investments are gaining momentum in the world. Sorry, but this is not serious.
                With regard to investment in education and health: this is, first of all, the task of the state, therefore there is the term "public investment".
                Quote: RRV
                When you invest your money in government bonds, you are thereby lending to the state

                You are mixing 2 different terms - "credit" and "government loan", the latter has completely different properties and conditions (for example: unchanging the conditions of the issued loan, the existence of conditions for the payment of profitability, etc.). In other words, you become a so-called. a "partner" of the state, and your risks, in this case, are correlated with the risks of the state's economic policy. Those. purchase of state. bonds, although it belongs to the category of "lending", but has significant differences from those loans that are considered in the article. By analogy: both slippers and boots are shoes and are used on the feet, but the conditions for their use are completely different.
                Quote: RRV
                However, there are investors who are not united in partnerships (large capital) and the 160th Federal Law applies to them.

                Let me clarify: the 160th Federal Law applies to all investors, regardless of the form of ownership and types of partnerships and is called "On investment activities in the Russian Federation carried out in the form of capital investments." But the 335th Federal Law defines and regulates joint investment activities of both residents and foreign investors, without creating a legal entity, which expands the possibilities of using an investment partnership in relation to other communities. And the type of business, in my opinion, does not matter in this Federal Law.
                1. Rrv
                  Rrv 15 May 2013 04: 12
                  0
                  both slippers and boots belong to shoes and are used on feet, but the conditions for their use are completely different


                  This is the point: investments are different, but investments from this do not cease to be.

                  If we were talking in a narrow sense about a specific type of investment, I would agree with you, but initially we were talking about investments as such (public investment is also an investment). ))) There is such an example: www.bibliofond.ru/view.aspx?id=487152


                  A frivolous emotional investment is, for example, when you invest in your appearance in order to please a potential employer, or pick up a woman.


                  State loan - "this is a CREDIT relationship between the state and individuals or legal entities ..."


                  You are a little confused:

                  There is 39-FZ dated February 25, 1999 "On investment activities in the Russian Federation, carried out in the form of capital investments"

                  And there is 160-ФЗ dated July 9, 1999 "On foreign investments in the Russian Federation"

                  But the 335th regulates the activity of investment partnerships specifically, while the type of business may not matter, I didn’t read it very carefully, but big capital doesn’t really go there - it’s too small.
                  1. Egen
                    Egen 15 May 2013 09: 14
                    0
                    Quote: RRV
                    This is the point: investments are different, but investments from this do not cease to be.

                    Vitaly, as I understand it from the posts and nickname :) works in the bank :). Well, what is your distribution of the loan portfolio between the credit and investment departments? We have it simple: up to a year - a loan, with collateral required. All that is long-term is investments with collateral and often an additional guarantee (aging, budget line) and / or participation in the management of the invested or through the acquisition (pledge) of a share in the authorized capital, the transfer of strategic management functions to a banking (or FIG) company is also practiced. Those. in the case of investments, the investor manages the processes (well, at least influences) in order to secure their investments and make a profit.
                    If, in the case of lending, the lender gave money, well, checked the business plan to the maximum, and if there is a guarantee, he didn’t give a damn about it, then in case of investments the investor is interested in the development of production.
                    Actually, all the difference as we have in the field in practice takes place. Laws is an application :)
                    In the West, investment is considered - basically - just direct investment in stocks, because they are on the exchange, we are not talking about the long-term investment. Investment companies such as Meryl Lynch are committed to taking money from the people :) and investing them in a diversified portfolio of shares. Under a contract with a client, his portfolio can be reviewed once in a while or at the client’s call at least several times a day. Well, there is a complicated mechanism of work :). They call this investment, and besides the name of the company and the history of quotes, they don’t need anything else.
                    But what our government means by the word investment is a very interesting question :) Basically, all the government investments or some other indirect ones (that is, not buying enterprises) that I came across always go through banks ...
                    Although, for example, there is such a program for restructuring coal monotowns. According to which, if you have passed a certain examination of a business plan and working draft, you can get investments to create or reprofile production. But it is usually ultimately irrevocable means ...
                    1. Rrv
                      Rrv 15 May 2013 16: 21
                      0
                      Quote: Egen
                      So despite the fact that the quote, in principle, and abroad, it reflects the parameters of the company and its attractiveness for investment. We do not have. Therefore, only the last option remains :)


                      So we are not interested in openness. To show attractiveness for investing means to significantly reduce the corruption market - do they need it?


                      And here’s what our government means by the word investment means


                      Yes, an interesting question.
                    2. Curculum
                      Curculum 15 May 2013 20: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Egen
                      Vitaly, as I understand it from the posts and nickname :) works in the bank :). Well, what is your distribution of the loan portfolio between the credit and investment departments?

                      You are a little mistaken - I am not an employee of a bank, although I am connected with banking office work, mainly with "documentaries". Therefore, I cannot answer your question.
                  2. Curculum
                    Curculum 15 May 2013 20: 56
                    0
                    Quote: RRV
                    If we were to speak in a narrow sense about a specific type of investment, I would agree with you, but initially it was about investments as such (public investment is also an investment).

                    Let me remind you of the title of the article: "Seven myths about foreign investment ..." - based on this context, I am discussing.
                    Therefore, when I indicated above "You are mixing 2 different terms -" credit "and" government loan ", the latter has completely different properties and conditions ...", then I interpreted "credit" based on the topic of the article. Moreover, in the same paragraph I explained my vision, which, by the way, does not contradict your phrase.
                    At the same time, I am well aware of the meaning of the term "credit relations", which can be used in any relationship of individuals of any form of ownership. Moreover, I have come out of the age of abstract study of the topic and mainly use more professional sources.
                    Quote: RRV
                    But the 335th regulates the activity of investment partnerships specifically, while the type of business may not matter, I didn’t read it very carefully, but big capital doesn’t really go there - it’s too small.

                    Of course, I messed up with the numbers of the Federal Law, because I wrote from memory, but, it seems, the consequence of my colds when passing even and odd numbers at school affects me, sorry.
                    Regarding 335: last year I personally participated in the so-called. "pre-contractual preparation" of investment in the construction of an object with the creation of appropriate relations, the amount is calculated by the presence of 6 zeros of Euros - is this "big capital" in your opinion? At the same time, the owner of the land and the initiator was able to "negotiate" more bearable conditions for equity participation thanks to this FZ - this is from practice.
                    1. Rrv
                      Rrv 15 May 2013 22: 42
                      +1
                      Our topic has moved somewhat aside from the topic of the article and rested on the conceptual apparatus - we began with my understanding of the main investment instruments, and we end with a dispute on the topic "is it an investment to invest in financial institutions at interest."
                      In my opinion, Katasonov gives the correct definition, take an interest in his biography by the way.

                      A sum with 6 zeros is more likely to be a medium-sized business.

                      You and I apparently didn’t start at all from that: we should start with the definition of what is good and what is bad for the country. In my opinion, the lasting 3 decades of creeping into the global economy, and creeping in is provided by foreign investment, is an extremely negative factor for the vast majority of citizens. People feel the problems caused by this creep on themselves and express dissatisfaction - the iPhone won’t spat at all, they call the authorities ineffective, they hope for Putin and continue to be surprised at what is happening. And in my opinion Delyagin said about what is happening best now:
                      1. Curculum
                        Curculum 16 May 2013 07: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: RRV
                        You and I apparently didn’t start at all from that: we should start with the definition of what is good and what is bad for the country. In my opinion, the lasting 3 decades of creeping into the global economy, and creeping in is provided by foreign investment, is an extremely negative factor for the vast majority of citizens.

                        + Strongly agree!
                        From professional activity: we constantly have to deal with negative aspects that are spread and implemented both in the activities of financial institutions and an ordinary entrepreneur. Sometimes it reaches the point of absurdity, which allows all crooks to find and use gaps in legislation and regulations for misuse, starting with the so-called. "financial instruments" and ending with state obligations. Any organization like the "Basel Committee", and the ICC is the same - only "show off", and our "Rosfinmonitoring" - stupidly does not cope. Therefore, in my opinion, the absence of radical and categorical measures in this area can lead to inflation of another financial bubble for the equivalent of a product, which, in turn, is no longer related to any product, but is the product itself - that's the trouble.
                        Sorry for the "many bukoff" - it's boiling ...
                      2. Rrv
                        Rrv 16 May 2013 13: 53
                        +2
                        I am afraid that everything may turn out to be much worse.

                        The same Katasonov justified the meaninglessness and even harm from joining the WTO - articles:
                        "About the WTO, or about real and imaginary holes in the Russian economy"
                        "Golden billion and a cash cow named Russia"
                        "Russia's defense shield will be destroyed by joining the WTO"

                        Nevertheless, we got into it - the economy is increasingly globalizing, and the consequence of the global economy is the global political system. And there, even before the implementation of the horror story about the "world electronic concentration camp" is at hand.
  • djon3volta
    djon3volta 14 May 2013 07: 44
    -7
    Lies and manipulation of facts and figures. Substitution of concepts. Ignorance. Article for "kitchen presidents".
    1. Normal
      Normal 14 May 2013 08: 15
      +5
      Quote: djon3volta
      Lies and manipulation

      Come on John, defeat the author. Beat him with numbers and economic calculations. Competently and competently, tell us your economic theory. Do not forget the sdelanounas website. Your word, O genius and guru! We wait!...
      1. djon3volta
        djon3volta 14 May 2013 08: 25
        -1
        Quote: Normal
        Your word, O genius and guru! We wait!...

        The article is very similar to the state of psychosis that a person experiences when he goes free. In prison you do not make any decisions, you live on a schedule, you are never alone, you will come up with everything, you will not be hungry and you will definitely be provided with work. But, in the wild you have to make decisions all the time. get up on the alarm clock or still sleep, go to work by metro, on the bus or go on foot. and so on: 16-18 hours a day, a person constantly makes decisions. the resulting psychosis is clear the sign is a terrible desire to return to prison so that it is as before. I want peace, I want to live in a team and not take any responsibility.
        1. fortunophile
          fortunophile 14 May 2013 08: 49
          0
          Quote: djon3volta
          The article is very similar to a state of psychosis

          Joni, I think you live in some kind of your own world, far from reality. Perhaps this also has its own charm when you live with a firm faith in the Great and the biggest dream is to shoot the opposition from machine guns (this is from your comment). I’m wondering (purely without banter) Do you have a family? If so, then your spouse also has such an ardent propresidennskastroennaya?
        2. Curculum
          Curculum 14 May 2013 10: 46
          +3
          Quote: djon3volta
          The article is very similar to the state of psychosis that a person experiences when going free. In prison, you do not make any decisions, you live on a schedule, you are never alone, you will come up with everything, you will not be hungry and you will definitely be provided with work.

          Your experience is very entertaining and instructive, but I propose to think not during "imprisonment" and release, but before committing an unlawful act, namely (I use your own terminology): if you are caught - convicted - imprisoned - released, then you are " done "and you are being manipulated. And who "makes" and uses whom? That's right - suckers and suckers.
          It is the author who proposes to understand some of the stamps that are used by many to satisfy their "wishes". Although I disagree with the author on some points, this is a matter of dispute, not labeling.
        3. Normal
          Normal 14 May 2013 11: 13
          +4
          Quote: djon3volta
          The article is very similar to the state ...

          John seems to have lost his tension ... Absolutely ...
          We are waiting for a new economic doctrine from him, and John drove us out of the blizzard about post-prison syndrome and an article similar to a state of psychosis (??? belay ). Immediately evident - "specialist"
          Replace the batteries, John! Or change your nickname to djon0,5volta
        4. Babon
          Babon 14 May 2013 12: 26
          0
          djon3voltaWell, they asked you, come on facts, as you love. Not yet convincing.
        5. Strezhevchanin
          Strezhevchanin 14 May 2013 20: 49
          0
          Quote: djon3volta
          a terrible desire to return to prison, so that it was as before.

          Eugene, are you likely to have read Astolf de Custine? Or maybe brilliant articles by Latynina? What have you voiced (written) now?
  • gleb49
    gleb49 14 May 2013 07: 49
    0
    ROSSTAT is a harmful organization. It considers the wrong place. A remnant of the USSR.
  • Egoza
    Egoza 14 May 2013 07: 53
    +5
    How the West helps, we can see on the example of Shell, which is going to develop shale gas fields. Responsibility for the environment - 0! The possibility of exporting the upper removed fertile layer of the earth (and this is black soil, by the way), receiving gas in the first years of production, somewhere around 70% of them (well, people invested in that) and 30% to us. You can joyfully rub your hands!
    Interestingly, out of 30 Ukrainian banks, only 10 belong to the state itself (4) and only to Ukrainian owners. The remaining 20 have "joint or net owners": Cyprus, Austria, USA, France, Britain, Hungary, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Russia. I think the question "Where is the money, Zin?" may be closed.
    1. Kaa
      Kaa 14 May 2013 09: 09
      +3
      Quote: Egoza
      How the West helps, we can see on the example of Shell,

      Quote: Egoza
      The remaining 20 have "joint or net owners": Cyprus,

      The phenomena are of the same order - a foreign investor aims to maximize profits in the shortest possible time, hence their love of investing in the speculative banking sector, neither in Russia nor in Ukraine, no one is going to make long-term investments in the industrial sector with a return in 10 years. They are imitated by domestic "skorobatchik". Cyprus, you say? Yes, a powerful and rich country ... in default. The money from there is "communalized" Ukrainian and Russian finances, "washed" in bank laundries and put back, withdrawn from taxes. In Ukraine, for example, Cyprus is in the FIRST place among foreign investors, and they are backed by the same people who brought money out of the former USSR in the form of resources for next to nothing, fictitious contracts for the purchase of anything. Plants bought in the 90s for a pittance thanks to "investments" are lying - they were bought so that NOTHING IS PRODUCED on them, so that, for example, instead of "Zaporozhtsev" and "Tavriy", over which they cheerfully teased, to establish 100 times less the production of not the best models of Korea and China by the "screwdriver assembly" method is a particular example, but there are thousands of them in the USSR.
    2. Egen
      Egen 14 May 2013 15: 06
      +1
      [quote = Fidget] How the West helps, we can see on the example of Shell, [/ quote
      Eee dear Fidget, can I ask, where did you get this information? Or are you talking about Russia, or about what?
      Shell has been cooperating with Gazprom for 2 years in two directions: development of conventional gas in Sakhalin + LNG and production of coal bed methane in Kuzbass. The first direction - for today the most "cream" in Russia and probably in the world. Gazprom wants to load Shell with coalbed methane. This is "earthly" work. Shell has been bothering for 2 years, does not want to take on methane in Kuzbass. And Gazprom does not want to give away the cream without it.
      What is methane - read the tags on the Internet "coalbed methane Kuzbass" and "Gazprom Dobycha Kuznetsk". In short, there are 2 goals: 1 - the actual production of methane as an energy carrier (better and safer than simple natural gas) + 2 - early degassing of coal seams - to prevent explosions in mines (in Kuzbass, almost everyone is somehow connected with coal, and explosions methane is a disaster for everyone).
      And it's all. Officially, there is no talk of any shale gas in Russia, and unofficially I have not heard about shale and Shell in Russia. Economically, 2 oil shale is worse than methane, why then? ..
      In addition, I did not understand you, what does the ecology have to do with it: during the extraction of methane, it is utilized, and not thrown out of mines and open-pit mines into the air, ozone holes are not created, therefore it is the opposite "+". Why remove the top layer of the soil, here is the drilling of wells, coiled tubing technology allows you to drill a well of 1 km per day, is this not a coal mine with stripping and dumps?
      In general, someone I didn’t understand you :)
      1. Sol
        Sol 14 May 2013 16: 35
        0
        "early degassing of coal seams - to prevent explosions in mines" - have you tried to extract coal from "crushed" seams? Methane has long been used for technological purposes in PUB (Vorkutinskaya and Severnaya mines, both of which are supercategorized in terms of gas, dust, rock bursts and sudden outbursts), but it is not enough even for concentration plants.
        On shale problems, in the mid-90s, he graduated from the Research Institute named after V.I. Krzhizhanovsky, ask their opinion, but the "old people" are no longer there and they have been redesigned altogether.
        1. Egen
          Egen 15 May 2013 09: 46
          0
          Quote: sol
          have you tried mining coal from crushed seams

          Yeah, Sol, are you a miner? :)
          What does "crushed" mean, who crushed them where and why, do not understand? No, alas, I'm not a geologist ...
          Yes, your gas content in Vorkuta is even greater than ours in Kuzbass. But as far as I know, you use methane extracted from degassing small wells inside the mine. Also done in our mines. The methane content there is 40-60%. But we extract methane from the surface from a depth of 600-1300m, the content of 99.9%. Therefore, the volumes in your mines are not the same and GPPs on poor mine methane do not pull ...
          Not our research institutes told us about the oil shale - in fact, in our whole country, unfortunately, there were no specialists left :(, and the Canadians and Australians who were doing this came to visit
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Egoza
        Egoza 14 May 2013 22: 27
        0
        Quote: Egen
        Or are you talking about Russia, or about what?

        This is me about Ukraine and shale gas! Sorry, it's boiling. hi
        1. Egen
          Egen 15 May 2013 11: 22
          0
          Quote: Egoza
          This is me about Ukraine and shale gas

          and what, does Shell do something for you? I heard about their attempts, but I thought that in Ukraine they are deafer than in Russia :) So what are Shell's investments, share - do they invest money, people, technology or what? They themselves do not drill, they hire contractors.
          One of such good ones is http://www.savannaenergy.com/default.asp?id=165 you can watch the videos as they mine, nothing is removed from the land there. The site is yes, it is being poured, as a result, it turns out like in the picture - this is a finished well with a gas pipeline, poured by the site for maintenance - in our Kuzbass.

          Compact, environmentally friendly. Pay attention to the excavator in the background - this is the work of a coal mine, and you can compare the environmental damage from the dumps of the mine in the back right on the picture. Then, of course, according to the law, it will all be restored, but then.
          And this is already obsolete technology. Modern: a drilling rig arrives, without any dump sites, 1 km is drilled per day, a fountain is installed, an autonomous turbine for generating electricity, a gas liquefier and a barrel are installed there. Well, wireless SCAD. Everything, once a week the tank rides, collects liquefied gas from a barrel. You do not have power lines and gas pipelines. Unfortunately I can’t show the pictures, it was only told and offered by Canadians and Australians. They say it is already starting to be regulated by law.
          And if everything is far from the case in Ukraine, then they want to use the old :) technology. If out of ignorance - send to us, we will teach :), but if with intent - send still where ...
          1. Egen
            Egen 15 May 2013 11: 59
            0
            I apologize, something the picture is not inserted :( Believe in the word (or in the soap :)) everything is not so bad :))
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • faser
    faser 14 May 2013 08: 19
    +3
    Today, Russian enterprises are not “ruled” not by producers, but by “financial geniuses”. I want to reassure, in Kazakhstan, too, directors are 90% composed of business partners, there are few producers ...
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 14 May 2013 08: 21
    +1
    For the development of the economy, Russia needs its own "chu-chhe" ideas.
  • Normal
    Normal 14 May 2013 08: 21
    +3
    We are waiting for supporters of GDP who will explain to us that everything is in order, everything is fine. And the author is simply an alarmist and does not see the great achievements of GDP. Anyway, the author with a swamp and the content of the State Department. Am I right, esaul, atlon and djon3volta? True, the latter has already been noted and, as always, has not spoiled.
    1. djon3volta
      djon3volta 14 May 2013 08: 31
      0
      Quote: Normal
      We are waiting for supporters of GDP that will explain to us

      A lot of beech. Saying.
      There is a lie, there is a vile lie, and there are statistics.
      The article is like a slogan, and nothing more.
  • zvereok
    zvereok 14 May 2013 08: 35
    +3
    In 2008, there was an outflow of finance from Russia. And in 2007, too. The inflow was only one year, in the entire history of the Russian Federation, either 2000 or 2001 - I do not remember exactly which one.

    "loans from foreign banks to Russian organizations for various investments in 2008 amounted to a really very impressive figure: 2.563,8 billion rubles."

    Loans, this is certainly not an investment. These are the funds that Deribaski invests abroad (in particular in the same America, where they take loans), leaving the sad fate of Russian assets to pay interest (under our guarantees). I remember Putin announced state guarantees for a number of enterprises (some of which are not state property)
  • djon3volta
    djon3volta 14 May 2013 08: 47
    -3
    I’ll ask a simple question, it’s nowhere easier - when Putin will destroy Russia and Russian genocide laughing your forecasts comrades please laughing
    1. Sol
      Sol 14 May 2013 09: 08
      0
      Oh, do not do nonsense!)))
    2. zvereok
      zvereok 14 May 2013 09: 17
      +1
      Why would Putin kill a chicken that lays golden eggs? Well, of course, if he is on the other side of the barricades.
      1. djon3volta
        djon3volta 14 May 2013 11: 32
        +1
        Quote: zvereok
        Why would Putin kill a chicken that lays golden eggs?

        Well, right there on the forum almost everyone is sure that Putin is destroying and destroying the country? and now you say why should he fall apart if she (the country) is laying golden eggs? where is the logic? laughing
        1. zvereok
          zvereok 14 May 2013 11: 42
          0
          The logic is that when the chicken ceases to lay eggs it has a direct path to the soup and our government to the children to the West. Therefore, it is strictly forbidden for a chicken to have a larger one, a sharp beak in the form of sun and the Chicken gives enough grain so that it can fulfill its duties.

          Increased funding for the Sun refutes this theory somewhat. So wait and see.
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 14 May 2013 12: 05
            0
            Quote: zvereok
            Increased funding for the Sun refutes this theory somewhat.

            It does not refute at all. Russia is also needed as cannon fodder.
        2. baltika-18
          baltika-18 14 May 2013 11: 45
          +3
          Quote: djon3volta
          well, right there on the forum almost everyone is sure that Putin is destroying and destroying the country? and now you say why should he fall apart if she (the country) bears golden eggs? where is the logic

          The whole question, Zhenya, is for whom is she bearing them?
          Obviously not for the vast majority of the country's population.
          1. Garrin
            Garrin 14 May 2013 11: 58
            +3
            Quote: baltika-18
            The whole question, Zhenya, is for whom is she bearing them?
            Obviously not for the vast majority of the country's population.

            Get ahead +
            1. baltika-18
              baltika-18 14 May 2013 12: 02
              +3
              Quote: Garrin
              Get ahead +

              Mutually. hi drinks
            2. djon3volta
              djon3volta 14 May 2013 13: 14
              +3
              Quote: Garrin
              Get ahead +

              Quote: baltika-18
              Mutually.

              I am always amazed at such posts - they will write one word, or even put a smile, and for this PLUSES put each other laughing
              Earlier, under the PLUS button (when you hover over it) there was an inscription - a useful comment. I have a question - what is useful in your comments that I quoted? these two words - Ahead + and Mutually. what is useful or infative in them? laughing what virtual titles and shoulder straps give? what is the privilege? what with skulls what with stars, all the same the post is printed and everyone sees and reads it. what's the point of adding each other? request
              1. Garrin
                Garrin 14 May 2013 13: 33
                +3
                Quote: djon3volta
                I am always amazed at such posts - they will write one word, or they will put a smile, and for this PLUSES put each other laughing

                Do not be surprised, Eugene. These are common truths, but I will try to explain. Sometimes people just don’t understand each other, sometimes just one word is enough, It happens that they understand at a glance, and when they are like-minded, sometimes it turns out without words. Everything is simple. Do not be offended.
              2. Babon
                Babon 14 May 2013 14: 15
                0
                Eugene, so you just want more pluses? Well, here's a plus for you, do not be discouraged.
              3. Setrac
                Setrac 14 May 2013 14: 35
                +1
                Quote: djon3volta
                I am always amazed at such posts - they will write one word, or even put a smile, and for this PLUSES put each other

                A cuckoo praises a rooster for praising a cuckoo. They are so mutually satisfied.
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 14 May 2013 09: 35
    +1
    Do not be afraid gentlemen abroad will not help us !!!
  • fenix57
    fenix57 14 May 2013 09: 51
    +4
    There is money in our state, no, I don’t know this. BUT comrades, dear, there are BILLIARDS PRESENT IN RUSSIA: "[b] The number of dollar billionaires in Russia, according to CEO magazine estimates, has grown to 131 people, which is a historic record."] see http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/rolling_news/2013/02/130218_rn_billionaires_rus
    sia.shtml
    So maybe the Russian leadership should find an "approach" to these citizens of Russia ...
    As the saying goes: your folder is right, sir, make conclusions and that's it ...
    1. Kaa
      Kaa 14 May 2013 10: 02
      +5
      Quote: fenix57
      RUSSIA HAS BILLIONAIRS:
      And where did they get so much from?
  • optimist
    optimist 14 May 2013 10: 13
    +3
    While the "three-volt" inhabitants are eating up the remnants of Putin's "stability", few people are interested in these figures. As you know, until a Russian peasant is pecked at a certain place by a famous bird, he will not scratch himself. I hope there are a lot of people on this forum who think about tomorrow and understand what kind of ... the country is rolling down (or rather, it has already slipped). Alas, we have two ways: 1) to quietly degrade, gorging on Putin's "noodles". 2) Everything is described in detail in the history textbooks for 1917-1921. CAPITALISM = DEATH OF RUSSIA
    1. djon3volta
      djon3volta 14 May 2013 11: 39
      +3
      Quote: optimist
      I hope this forum has a lot of people who think about tomorrow and understand what country ... the country is heading for (or rather, it has already slipped).

      Of course there are many of you here, 300 people can even be typed. Here you are.
      go out into the street in kind, start a topic about politics with friends, and start your posts to tell them - you will either be sent or sent to the temple laughing tens of millions in the country live in REAL and not on political forums, they will NEVER read your thoughts, it’s not good for them. I just chatted about politics from the street now, they just smiled at me, one went into the garden, the other went into action I went with materials, they ... do not need your policy for nothing laughing people, people in REAL live and are busy with REAL concerns, they have no time to sit balabol on sites, they do not read the Internet at all.
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 14 May 2013 11: 58
        +5
        Quote: djon3volta
        go out into the street in kind, start a topic about politics with friends, and start your posts to tell them - you will either be sent or sent to the temple

        Well, you're lying, Zhenya. My village (5000 people), with the possible exception of a few parasites from the administration, is all for socialism. Come to us with eulogies about power reforms, I'll see what remains of you. laughing
        And will there be anything left. request
      2. Babon
        Babon 14 May 2013 12: 36
        +1
        djon3voltaWell, judging by your activity on the site, you are just one of those who are on the sites. So it turns out that you live in a VIRTUAL?
      3. optimist
        optimist 14 May 2013 12: 36
        -1
        I agree. Most of our citizens live like pigs in a pen: the "owner" poured slops into the trough, a good owner !!! Only the brain is not enough to understand that the "owner" is already calculating with might and main the profit from the sold "pork". Such "smart people" like you lick ... any government, - the king, the general secretary, the president ... And then they line the ground with their corpses in the next revolutions, famines, perestroika, etc. Only when you and people like you are driven to the "meat-packing plant", then, perhaps, something in your heads will move ...
        1. djon3volta
          djon3volta 14 May 2013 13: 24
          0
          Quote: optimist
          Most of our citizens live like pigs in a pen: the "owner" poured slops

          and what kind of citizens do you belong to? Well, let's say I eat slops, and where are you, in the restaurants, boiled pork with cheese?
          about you today on RUSSIA 1 at 23:35 they will show, and what you eat from your table and hands. It’s good that there are PU TV and federal channels where you are put forward by who you are.
          1. optimist
            optimist 14 May 2013 13: 32
            -1
            You, apparently, specially mowing a fool. Figurative expressions are not for your mind. Although, I have a suspicion that you are a FSB provocateur. Specially provoke people on sites to emotions, and then specially trained kids calculate the IP addresses of dissatisfied Putinoids. laughing
            1. Babon
              Babon 14 May 2013 14: 04
              0
              Although, I have a suspicion that you are a FSB provocateur.

              Yes, it does not.
              1. Egen
                Egen 14 May 2013 15: 14
                +3
                Quote: Babon
                Yes, it does not.


                "we here in the FSB don't do such petty garbage" :)))
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 14 May 2013 14: 42
              +3
              Quote: optimist
              You, apparently, specially mowing a fool. Figurative expressions are not for your mind.

              It is not figurative to call the optimist to call the citizens of Russia - pigs - figuratively, you must be deported from the country for disrespect for our state.
              I would like to know who put the pluses to you, traitors.
              1. optimist
                optimist 14 May 2013 15: 15
                0
                And if people act like these animals, then what should they be called? It’s rude, of course, but besides swine, the attitude of many of our fellow citizens towards their homeland cannot be called ... recourse
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 14 May 2013 15: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: optimist
                  And if people act like these animals, then what should they be called? It’s rude, of course, but besides swine, the attitude of many of our fellow citizens towards their homeland cannot be called ...

                  That is, you do not even deny your guilt, and are ready to prove that the Russians are like you said.
                  1. optimist
                    optimist 14 May 2013 16: 07
                    0
                    No need to redo, dear. I did not call all the people (to which I belong), pigs. I had in mind some of his not the best representatives.
    2. baltika-18
      baltika-18 14 May 2013 11: 48
      +3
      Quote: optimist
      CAPITALISM = DEATH OF RUSSIA

      Alexei, short and clear.
      Accept my support and naturally plus for koment.
      With respect, Nicholai. hi
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 14 May 2013 14: 20
      +2
      Quote: optimist
      CAPITALISM = DEATH OF RUSSIA

      Somewhere I already heard it. First there was tsarism = death of Russia, then communism = death of Russia, now here is capitalism. And again, the revolutionaries are calling for everything to be taken away and divided sparingly. And rightly so - this is more normal, and on the go - figs with butter.
      Go work, do not hope for a new robbery
      1. optimist
        optimist 14 May 2013 14: 51
        0
        Do not you, dear, call to work? And who do you work with yourself?
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 14 May 2013 18: 58
          +1
          Quote: optimist
          Do not you, dear, call to work? And who do you work with yourself?

          I work on the railway, a fitter, the North Caucasian railway, Timashevskaya distance))) Familiar names? I'm afraid my job is not for everyone.
          1. optimist
            optimist 14 May 2013 21: 30
            +1
            As they say, I take off my hat: a respectable occupation. Well, then explain, dear, why are you so worried about the inviolability of yachts, villas and bl..day Abramovich? What do you have to lose, besides working overalls?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 14 May 2013 22: 34
              0
              Quote: optimist
              Well, then explain, dear, why are you so worried about the inviolability of yachts, villas and bl..day Abramovich?

              These "values" don't bother me.
              1. optimist
                optimist 14 May 2013 23: 16
                0
                Well, what are you then against the slogan "plunder the loot"? To be honest, he doesn't inspire me either. But, I'm afraid that without him there is no way. For capitalism in Russia discredited itself 100 years ago, and even now many smart people understand that it has reached a dead end. Personally, I now live much better than in the USSR (I mean material). But I would not like my children and grandchildren to live in capitalist Russia.
  • Vtel
    Vtel 14 May 2013 10: 31
    +4
    On paper, it turns out that “abroad helps us”, but in fact the opposite is true: we help enrich ourselves abroad at the expense of our people

    While kosher rule Russia, there is no reason to expect good. For them, Russia is a cash cow, not a homeland. And therefore, when you see their sleek faces in the TV box, talking about the ever-growing good of the people (I even know which one!), I rely only on the Lord God, because without his help you cannot erase this infection.
    1. optimist
      optimist 14 May 2013 10: 35
      +4
      Hope for God, don’t be bad yourself !!! laughing
  • radio operator
    radio operator 14 May 2013 10: 51
    0
    “The presence of foreign capital in our country is small and, therefore, poses no threat to the Russian economy and the security of Russia as a whole.” This myth is needed in order to provide ideological cover for the ongoing investment aggression of the West, which leads to the rapid strengthening of the position of foreign capital in Russia.

    I think there is no difference in the percentage of capital in the Russian economy. The fact is that when the hour "x" strikes, all these enterprises will be nationalized according to the laws of wartime.
    No problem.
    1. Rrv
      Rrv 14 May 2013 11: 34
      +3
      Quote: radio operator
      No problem.


      The question is how many people will live up to this moment and what kind of people they will be.
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 14 May 2013 11: 51
        +5
        Quote: radio operator
        The fact is that when the hour "x" strikes, all these enterprises will be nationalized according to the laws of wartime.
        No problem.

        Quote: RRV
        The question is how many people will live up to this moment and what kind of people they will be.

        I would also add if there is anything to nationalize.
  • fenix57
    fenix57 14 May 2013 11: 46
    +2
    Quote: Kaa
    And where did they get so much from?

    THIS IS WHERE OUR SC TO ROOM ... But let’s omit this dark past, BUT WE WOULD NOT HINDER, AT LEAST A "SPONSOR", WE WILL NOT TALK ABOUT SPECIALTY .. AS YOU ALL COUNT .... peace to huts, war to palaces !!! Abroad will NOT help ... HOWEVER! .....
  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 14 May 2013 12: 03
    +3
    <<< For example, it is necessary to understand why our people today voluntarily pay for that "rope" (the purchase of Russian assets at the expense of our own funds), on which tomorrow the same "foreign investors" will convince him to hang himself (and voluntarily). I invite everyone to broad (not only economic) discussion and is ready to answer questions. >>>
    "Our people are voluntarily paying for that" rope "today because today the same Gaidar accomplices, liberals - Westernizers are at the helm of the economic policy of Russia, who, fucking the people's brains with all sorts of economic theories that promise the people a quick capitalist happiness, CONSCIOUSLY, practically, turned Russia in the economic SLAVE of the West! At the same time, this whole ruling peberast-economic shobla firmly sits at the helm of the Russian economy, enjoys, of course, the support of the West, and they are not interested in any other models of economic development, the voices of other economists, patriotic, are simply not heard and are ignored. So, it looks like it's too late to debate! It's time to drive with a nasty meter all this corrupt ruling economic s ... anh, although there is an acute desire to fill her with pestilence in a workers 'and peasants' way ... it is a pity that the author of the article does not suggest what is needed urgently and in then do to get out of the existing situation.
  • yanus
    yanus 14 May 2013 12: 15
    +1
    Oh, I can add one more myth. "The cook can run the state!" Nefiga can't. Likewise, a politically preoccupied person cannot write analytical articles on economics. Neither mind nor knowledge.

    I did not read further the first debunking. Writing that stock speculation can affect the real sector of the economy is a clear sign of a misunderstanding of the mechanisms of the stock market in the Russian Federation. A vivid example, Gazprom shares. In 2008, the price went up to 360 p., During the crisis it dropped to 110. I won’t give exact numbers by heights. In any case, the difference is 3.5 times. And what is Gazprom impoverished 3.5 times? Maybe incomes fell 3.5 times, maybe salaries? Maybe someone bought Gazprom?

    Memories of T-bills in relation to short-term stock market speculation are generally nonsense.
    1. Rrv
      Rrv 14 May 2013 12: 52
      +3
      Quote: yanus
      Oh, I can add one more myth. "The cook can run the state!" Nefiga can't.



      We are not utopians. We know that any laborer and any cook are not capable of immediately taking control of the state. In this we agree with the Cadets, and with Breshkovskaya, and with Tsereteli. But we differ from these citizens in that we demand an immediate break with the prejudice that it is to rule the state, to carry out the everyday, daily work of the administration in the state of only wealthy officials or taken from wealthy families. We demand that the training in public administration be given by class-conscious workers and soldiers, and that it be started immediately, that is, all workers, the whole poor, immediately begin to be involved in this training.

      V. Lenin.




      Quote: yanus
      Neither mind nor knowledge.



      It is very good that you admitted this.
      1. yanus
        yanus 14 May 2013 14: 10
        0
        Quote: RRV
        It is very good that you admitted this.

        Well, it is more likely that you proved that you have no brains, which you replaced with "primary sources". I wrote about myth... And the myth is precisely that the majority of Ilyich's followers believe - "The cook can rule the state, the main thing is that she is from наших"
        1. Rrv
          Rrv 14 May 2013 16: 27
          +1
          Janus, the fact is that this is not a myth, but a deliberate distortion of meaning. And if anyone thinks that a cook can rule the state, it’s certainly not the followers of Lenin.
          Rather, the current Power thinks so - it is her stool "from наших"run the army.
  • My address
    My address 14 May 2013 12: 24
    +7
    Little illustration for the article.
    There is a profitable enterprise. It invested part of the profits in a bank controlled by competitors at 1%. The company needs funds for modernization and expansion. The economist of the enterprise proposes to take funds from the above bank at 4% per annum and on the condition of pledging 30% of the company's shares to this bank. When asked by the director why not just withdraw part of his funds, but it is better to transfer all and extra money into reliable assets and transfer further, the economist replies that there will be inflation in the form of an increase in the cost of food (traders learn that the workers of the plant are provided for the future, etc. .p.) and, in general, everyone does it. What should be done with such an economist? That's right, first figure out who he works for, and if not a traitor, then hand him over for treatment to people in white coats. We have Kudrin and other Chubais with elvirs, using pseudoscientific chatter, how much money they can transfer to the West, but they do not advise touching it, they propose to lure investors out of there on the terms of investors. I hope that Putin will open his eyes to "strong economists." Expanded reproduction implies the direction of part of the profit for development, and its development, not the enemy.

    As a production worker and a former physicist, I assure you that if the most complicated scientific calculations cannot clearly answer a simple question, you are fooled by these calculations.

    The article is a great plus.
  • rks5317
    rks5317 14 May 2013 13: 51
    +6
    I’m watching TV news and when a former intelligence officer or legal adviser begins to name the sums of billions of dollars invested in the Russian economy, I just can’t figure out where this money was invested, no new roads were built. No new factories were built. No new technologies were purchased with new equipment. "Well ... Well, I’m thinking. Are our Advisers and Ministers deceiving our Custodians? Now, after this article, they understand-THEY are again deceiving RUSSIA and its law-abiding citizens. They continue to believe these annihilators of Russia and its people ... Thanks to the author, clearly and clearly explained. XU from XU ...
  • Roll
    Roll 14 May 2013 16: 07
    0
    wassat The author well covered some of the issues, but he does not have a common understanding of the economy. Firstly, the real production trend is being separated from the financial system. Secondly, there was a redistribution of world production forces. Thirdly, than a Western investor, worse than ours. (And in the sense of even patriotism) that’s why Deribazka or Abramovich is more patriotic than some jail. Then the Russian economy has its own specifics, we sell oil and gas weapons, and therefore we have huge imports, and for the economy to work properly we need to have a zero balance. (Import and export are equal) Therefore, we consciously ruined a lot of industries and agriculture. The same trend was in Greece. This is normal so far. The main problem is the distribution of financial resources, but this is the problem of the next decade and the building of communism on new principles.
  • washi
    washi 14 May 2013 16: 19
    +1
    There was a lot of foreign investment in tsarist Russia. As a result, almost ALL oil, gold, coal mining, metalworking, agricultural products, etc. belonged to the French, Belgians, Germans, Jews. And what is the result?
    Have you read about the Lenin Uprising on this site? Read about the rest. Who financed and for what.
  • Forget
    Forget 14 May 2013 16: 31
    +1
    summarizing the article, and as the kung fu teacher said to his student Jackie Chan, "Nobody will help you if you don't help yourself" ...
  • varov14
    varov14 14 May 2013 19: 38
    +2
    What kind of illness did the state strike when all the power structures work against their own country?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • rJIiOK
    rJIiOK 14 May 2013 20: 42
    +2
    The trouble with our economy .. But the economy now is all.
  • Georges14
    Georges14 14 May 2013 22: 06
    +1
    The article is a big plus. Question to the author - where can I find of. data on direct investment in the Russian Federation? And in general - on what sites can I get data on this issue? Thank.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 15 May 2013 00: 03
    0
    But in fact, everything just happened — the uncle came and bought the shares of the railway, for example, with pieces of paper that print with terrible force. The papers were safely eaten and squandered, it’s not known what, the railway became an uncle and the state was left with a nose because the uncle also receives dividends