Military Review

What weapon to prefer in battle?

94
What weapon to prefer in battle?

A lot of controversy is the question: how weapons it is preferable to fight and weapons of what caliber to take with you to this or that operation? I would like to immediately amend all the arguments of this kind: each type of weapon is designed to perform a particular combat mission, depending on the situation.


REACTIVE FIRE "BUMBLE"

Based on personal observations, I can say that in the conditions of street fighting in Grozny (January – February 1995), assault units preferred the RPO “Bumblebee”. With the help of these hand-held flamethrowers, essentially shooting a volume explosion ammunition, it was very effective to “smoke out” the enemy from closed premises, from firing positions equipped in private-sector houses, from high-rise apartments and basements of the city. To suppress one enemy firing point, as a rule, one RPO was enough (targeting distance to 600 m).

When inspecting the firing points on which RPOs were used, quite often the bodies of militants who were located in neighboring rooms were found. Groups that went into military operations in the city tried to get more “Bumblebees”.

When conducting combat operations in the area of ​​Mayakovsky Street (Grozny, January 1995), the enemy’s firing points, which are found during the advancement of infantry in a seemingly liberated territory, were particularly annoying. The return fire from small-arms infantry, armed with AK-74 assault rifles (caliber 5,45 mm), did not result in firing: firing points were equipped by militants in the semi-basements of a brick residential building. After the guys from the flamethrower platoon with the RPO "Bumblebee" approached, the enemy's resistance was quickly broken.

When examining one of the firing points subjected to the impact of the “Bumblebee”, in the basement were found bloody pieces of bodies, the corpses were in the adjacent room of the basement. And in the adjacent room, they were apparently intact, except that from the dynamic impact of a burst charge, some corpses got their eyes out of orbits.

DISPUTES AROUND AUTOMATIC

In my opinion, the small arms of the units of the Russian Army, based mainly on AK-74 assault rifles, do not fully meet the requirements of the troops. In combat conditions, when sometimes there is no time to disassemble and clean the machine gun, AKM (caliber 7,62 mm) does not give delays or failures when firing, even if the fighter has shot 8-10 stores (240-300 cartridges) and with significant sludge, continues to be ready for battle . The AK-74 machine gun (5,45 mm) when shooting 6-7 stores gives you delays and can even refuse. AKM remains ready for battle, even after falling into water or mud, which is not the case with AK-74. In my opinion, and my comrades, AKM is more reliable and unpretentious than the AK-74.

The penetration capacity of the 7,62 mm bullet is much higher than that of the 5,45-mm. In a real combat situation, it looks like this: it is difficult to hit a hidden enemy, for example, behind a stack of empty wooden boxes from AK-74. The bullets of this machine, do not pierce such a barrier. Changing the flight path in a collision with the first row of boxes, they go away. The 7,62 mm bullet from AKMa pierces almost any such obstacle, leaving no hope to the hidden enemy to stay alive.

A good example is the experiment that I conducted. From five meters I shot AK-74 at an angle of approximately 75 degrees into the screen of a domestic medium-sized TV. The first bullet ricocheted off, leaving no trace on the glass of the screen. And only the second shot the screen was broken.

The ammunition caliber 7,62 mm developed a lot of types. The main ones used by the Russian special forces against the militants in the Chechen campaign are: with a steel core; armor-piercing incendiary; with reduced bullet speed (for shooting using PBS); with tracer bullet.

With a small artisanal refinement with a file or file in the field, the bullet can be imparted with large destructive properties to affect the enemy's manpower.

In Chechnya, ammunition caliber 5,45 mm to AK-74 used only two types: with a steel core; with tracer bullet. Only in separate divisions, for example, in reconnaissance, were used 5,45 mm ammunition with a reduced bullet speed.

WANTED AS BETTER

The desire to prepare for the upcoming battle, to think through everything, down to the smallest detail - the normal psychology of a fighter. However, in order to shorten the time for reloading weapons, in my opinion, mistakenly fasten the shops of the machine in pairs using adhesive tape or adhesive tape. It happened to be seen when some soldiers fastened together three or even four stores together.

On my own experience, I was convinced that the second store, which is deployed relative to the first one by 180 degrees, increases the reloading time when dirt hits, and if it gets into the machine's mechanism, delays and failures in firing can occur. When winding three or more stores, the machine becomes harder, more uncomfortable, balancing the weapon is disturbed and it becomes much more difficult to conduct aimed shooting from the hand, if not impossible. In addition, this practice over time leads to the wear of the mechanism of attachment of the store to the machine.

To increase the ammunition for a single reloading, we used the PKK stores, designed for 40 cartridges, which were at a special price.

To reduce the time of reloading the machine gun, there is only one real way so far: use unloading vests with convenient location of stores on it, in order to be able to quickly retrieve the ammunition set from any position of the fighter during firing.

COMPACTNESS

The most successful option is a machine with a folding butt. The borrowed mechanism of the folding stock from the German MP-38 (MP-40) after the Second World War successfully migrated to the AKM landing assault version (AKMS) and practically did not change over time. The only innovation was a removable rubber butt plate for cushioning and a better stop for aimed shooting. Unlike AKMS stock, which retracts down under the receiver, the AKS-74 butts (AKS-74М) buttstocks are sideways and become somewhat uncomfortable. Their inconvenience lies in the fact that these machines have an additional amount of protruding parts and, consequently, the possibility of clinging to the ammunition increases, and there are few times in unusual situations. Taking into account the installation on the submachine gun grenade launcher, additional sighting systems, the issue of compactness and ergonomics of the weapon becomes very important.
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94 comments
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  1. Hleb
    Hleb 15 May 2013 08: 25 New
    +5
    I wrote normally. I didn’t see the AK-74 continuous failures after shooting 6-7 stores, but the AKM is really a thing! even if it was brought to a state where it’s hard to reload it, I stepped on the bolt of the bolt and go forward. bullet stability on the trajectory, penetrative actions, which is why AKMS preferred in our divisions
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 16 May 2013 15: 03 New
      -1
      AKM does not have a wound arm. There is a handle.
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 16 May 2013 15: 28 New
        0
        Mass production of Fedorov assault rifles began only in 1922

        you would also like to follow the writing
        production
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris 16 May 2013 15: 34 New
          0
          Baby, but besides having typos, do you have something to say?
  2. Canep
    Canep 15 May 2013 08: 27 New
    +5
    In Chechnya, ammunition caliber 5,45 mm to AK-74 used only two types: with a steel core; with tracer bullet. Only in separate divisions, for example, in reconnaissance, were used 5,45 mm ammunition with a reduced bullet speed.

    We are talking about the introduction of a new 6,5 caliber for a modern machine, it will (according to the developers) combine the amazing ability of 7.62 and low impact of 5,45. We will see.
    1. Mikhado
      Mikhado 15 May 2013 09: 03 New
      +8
      Quote: Canep
      In Chechnya, ammunition caliber 5,45 mm to AK-74 used only two types: with a steel core; with tracer bullet. Only in separate divisions, for example, in reconnaissance, were used 5,45 mm ammunition with a reduced bullet speed.

      We are talking about the introduction of a new 6,5 caliber for a modern machine, it will (according to the developers) combine the amazing ability of 7.62 and low impact of 5,45. We will see.

      Yes, there is already - Grendel, but not with us. There was an experimental Soviet version before the adoption of 5.45 - they re-pressed the sleeve of the 43rd year under 6.5 mm - this was, apparently, the optimum. But they adopted this "small match", blindly followed the Americans. Mikhail Timofeich was against 5.45 - he himself spoke about this in an interview, but they pushed through.
      1. Canep
        Canep 15 May 2013 09: 13 New
        0
        By the way, the non-adoption (or limited adoption) of the AK-100 series and AK-12 indirectly suggests that a caliber of 6,5 mm might be adopted.
        1. bask
          bask 15 May 2013 09: 28 New
          13
          6.5mm Arisaka Type 38.D Infantry Rifle 1894, Japan began work on replacing outdated Murata rifles. Responsible for developing the new rifle was Colonel Narioke Arisaka. 1897 a new Type 30 rifle and a 6.5mm cartridge under it -6.5 / 52 were adopted.
          The first Fedorov assault rifle was precisely for this caliber.

          [/ Center]
          1. Strashila
            Strashila 15 May 2013 10: 25 New
            +4
            The patriarch ... the founder, of all automatic weapons.
          2. Hon
            Hon 15 May 2013 11: 05 New
            +2
            Initially, Fedorov developed an automatic machine for his own cartridge, but the outbreak of war made adjustments, it was urgent to redo a sufficient quantity of a cartridge with similar characteristics that was available.
          3. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 16 May 2013 15: 17 New
            0
            True, the experimental cartridge of Fedorov was somewhat more powerful and, accordingly, more dimensional. All 200 pieces of Fedorov automatic rifles and his assault rifles, including those transferred to the armament of the 1st company of the Izmaylovsky regiment, were converted from a batch intended for military trials. An order for this was issued in 1913.
            Mass production of Fedorov assault rifles began only in 1922. For the entire time of release (until 1932), about 3200 pieces were made ...
      2. Hon
        Hon 15 May 2013 10: 54 New
        +3
        Quote: Mikhado
        Yes already - Grendel, but not with us.

        We have already established production of these ammunition, but the transition to a new caliber is very costly, even the Americans are in no hurry to switch to 6,5, especially since then all NATO countries will have to switch.
        1. bask
          bask 15 May 2013 12: 02 New
          +2
          Quote: Hon
          Americans are in no hurry to switch to 6,5, especially since then all NAT countries will have to switch

          That’s the whole point. Where to get hundreds of millions of rounds of 5,45 mm.
          1. Larus
            Larus 15 May 2013 13: 51 New
            +1
            Amer can go, and sell their remnants to NATO.
            1. Hon
              Hon 15 May 2013 17: 24 New
              +2
              NATO has adopted a unified standard of ammunition, so that there would be no problems with the supply, if the amers pass then all the others as well.
          2. core
            core 15 May 2013 18: 10 New
            +5
            shoot for the good of the cause, otherwise the soldier during the service happens and does not make three shots.
          3. Rider
            Rider 15 May 2013 23: 48 New
            +1
            Quote: bask
            Where to get hundreds of millions of rounds of 5,45 mm.


            somewhat incorrect formulation of the question.

            soldiers shoot cartridges (not all of them have 3 rounds each half a year)

            but where to put millions of 74x?
            1. JIaIIoTb
              JIaIIoTb 15 May 2013 23: 52 New
              0
              14 million 74 located in warehouses are very useful if they press specifically.
              1. Hon
                Hon 16 May 2013 08: 13 New
                0
                Most of these assault rifles will also have to be implemented, since those assault rifles that are in service should be in reserve.
            2. roskaz
              roskaz 21 May 2013 12: 47 New
              0
              hide for a rainy day)
          4. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 16 May 2013 15: 08 New
            0
            I will correct it. Billions
        2. Larus
          Larus 15 May 2013 13: 53 New
          +2
          if adjusted, then nothing is heard about the competition for a new machine. Or what, stupidly change the trunk, think enough ..
          1. Hon
            Hon 15 May 2013 17: 28 New
            +1
            if you take a new ammunition, you will have to purchase a huge amount of ammunition, the warehouses must be filled, in addition, it will be necessary to dispose of a large quantity of 5.45 since it will be problematic to realize or store them.
      3. Droid
        Droid 16 May 2013 19: 59 New
        0
        Thank God that M.T. Kalashnikov.
    2. the47th
      the47th 15 May 2013 13: 09 New
      0
      Maybe 6x49 and not 6,5?
      1. Hon
        Hon 15 May 2013 13: 15 New
        +1
        if you mean the grendel then it is designated as 6.5x38, by the way the sleeve is the same as ours 5.45 and 7.62
    3. Droid
      Droid 16 May 2013 19: 56 New
      0
      Will not be. There are no miracles. And the striking ability of the bullet is 5,45 higher than that of the bullet 7,62 arr. 43 g.
  3. andrey903
    andrey903 15 May 2013 09: 14 New
    +2
    There are different cartridges of 5,45,6N10 piercing even the pain of the SVD is tested, cut cartridges of 7,62 dangerously can break the automation
    1. the47th
      the47th 15 May 2013 14: 25 New
      0
      Bulletproof vests - maybe. But 7,62x39 better breaks through wood, brick, etc.
  4. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 15 May 2013 09: 23 New
    13
    Good afternoon!
    The article is quite old. I myself read it at one time in the journal "sunk into oblivion" (sorry). 1. By the "bumblebee" - yes, indeed, a good, effective weapon, which has repeatedly confirmed its status of the enemy's "smoker" from equipped firing points.
    2.Never once during my service did I come across cases of AK-74 refusal after shooting 6-7 magazines. Apparently, in case of refusals, we are talking about the general contamination of the weapon during the OBD. In this respect, AKM and AKMS are indeed more reliable. I did not closely collide with the AK of the 100th series: I just looked at it and held it in my hands ... It seems that it was these problems (but not only them) that were touched upon in the article that prompted the Izhevsk people to develop this series.
    3. An increase in the capacity of the BC (store) can be achieved by using compatible stores: for AK-74 (30) - RPK-74 (45); AK or AKM (30) - RPK (40) or disk - "drum" (75).
    If there is a shortage of machine-gun magazines (and this is the case), you can fasten the machine-gun magazines not with a "jack", but also with electrical tape in parallel through a gasket (a block of wood or two matchboxes - the latter is less reliable). I don’t know if the troops have plastic or metal clips that fasten the magazines in pairs - I saw them at the “practical shooters” from the FPSR. Himself, "factory" did not "use".
    4. For a year and a half, we are talking about a caliber of 6,5 mm. Wait and see ...
    1. kot11180
      kot11180 16 May 2013 09: 27 New
      0
      there are box magazines for 60 rounds on the AK-74 on sale, the length is the same only thicker than usual, ideal
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 16 May 2013 15: 28 New
        0
        They are extremely unreliable. This store is four-row with rebuilding in two rows. When the cartridges are used up by about half, with sudden movements, the feeder, under the force of inertia of the remaining cartridges, can sag, respectively, the cartridges in the neck fall and warp.
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 16 May 2013 15: 36 New
          0
          They are extremely unreliable

          based on what experience is this conclusion?
          1. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 16 May 2013 15: 47 New
            0
            From the experience of testing this particular store. And besides, do you seriously believe that this store was invented with us? Well, I will disappoint you. For the first time, such a store in mass quantities had the "Suomi" PP, but precisely due to the problems described above, it was replaced by a drum one. In subsequent years, this idea surfaced periodically, but in none of the designs, the problem of inertial subsidence of the feeder was never solved. Alas, our attempt is no exception.
            1. Hleb
              Hleb 16 May 2013 15: 53 New
              0
              have you tested this store? so you need to ask why it is used with us?))
              from acquaintances no one spoke about the AK wedge with such a store. I have to take your word for it. so what happens? is it all gone? the gunsmiths screwed up) did not listen to the authoritative opinion of the testers. they launched an extremely unreliable store into the troops?
              1. anomalocaris
                anomalocaris 16 May 2013 16: 03 New
                0

                And who, and the most interesting WHERE used these stores?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Hleb
                  Hleb 16 May 2013 18: 06 New
                  0
                  And who, and the most interesting WHERE used these stores?

                  Well, it’s written about the same place where you brought this photo from))
                  Adopted and has its own GRAU index: 6L31 - a four-row magazine for 60 rounds of 5,45x39 for the AK-74
                  apparently there you experienced it)
                  1. anomalocaris
                    anomalocaris 17 May 2013 15: 54 New
                    0
                    I have not experienced it. But I had to talk. If you stuff 20-25 rounds of ammunition in this store, then a pretty weak blow leads to such a picture.
                    1. ramsi
                      ramsi 18 May 2013 07: 24 New
                      0
                      probably, it was necessary to make a central partition to the bottom, two springs, a more pronounced narrowing at the top for a more clear transition of 4 rows - into 2, and 2x - into 1 ... in fact - the same double store. Why is the disk worse?
                      1. anomalocaris
                        anomalocaris 18 May 2013 08: 48 New
                        0
                        There is a partition and so from the beginning of the neck to the top of the store.
                        A disk store is much more complicated, more expensive and has more inconvenient dimensions.
                        That is, do you offer as much double rebuilding of cartridges? Well this is not a good idea.
                      2. ramsi
                        ramsi 18 May 2013 10: 20 New
                        0
                        Well, I suppose there’s nowhere to do the same spring?
                      3. anomalocaris
                        anomalocaris 18 May 2013 16: 12 New
                        0
                        The force of the spring should be such as to ensure manual equipment store.
                      4. ramsi
                        ramsi 18 May 2013 16: 33 New
                        0
                        I'm in the sense that it seems to be missing somewhere in between: the weight of the cartridges is still large, and the energy is no longer enough. Maybe try a composite? .. Although the first proposed option is very close to the original and, with the original springs, it should work
  • machine gunner
    machine gunner 15 May 2013 09: 30 New
    +3
    5,45 different ammunition is also enough and used different, too, in terms of penetration it is better to sample 43 in stability as well, some (PP) are even better. plus BC more.
  • Sirozha
    Sirozha 15 May 2013 09: 31 New
    +4
    Honestly, I don’t quite understand why AKMS stock is so convenient ...
    But about the unloading. Just convenient unloading is the first step to fast reloading, you also need someone to teach someone the technique of quick reloading, and not just show how to stick or remove the store, and this, as a rule, no one in the army does.
    In general, at the expense of caliber, how many people have so many opinions. Very often I met only positive reviews from users of the 74th series compared to the 47th.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 15 May 2013 11: 40 New
      +2
      Well, it’s not even a matter of butt design. For example, I need a folding automatic machine and I’m not taking AKS-74 but AKMS, just because I need caliber 7.62
      here to each his own
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 15 May 2013 20: 11 New
        +2
        two warriors who do not agree, do not crawl out, crawl out and prove the opposite in your face. We will see who was holding a machine gun in his hands, and who "twitched the shutter under the covers"
  • gabs
    gabs 15 May 2013 10: 25 New
    0
    A colleague on the AK-74 cartridge jammed in the chamber, tortured to knock out. And so that due to pollution, the machine refused to not meet with this. As far as I know, 5,45 cartridges with a displaced center of gravity, and therefore ricochets.
    1. astra
      astra 15 May 2013 15: 51 New
      +1
      The penetration capacity of the 7,62 mm bullet is much higher than that of the 5,45-mm. In a real combat situation, it looks like this: it is difficult to hit a hidden enemy, for example, behind a stack of empty wooden boxes from AK-74. The bullets of this machine, do not pierce such a barrier. Changing the flight path in a collision with the first row of boxes, they go away. The 7,62 mm bullet from AKMa pierces almost any such obstacle, leaving no hope to the hidden enemy to stay alive.

      Quote: gabs
      As far as I know, 5,45 cartridges with a displaced center of gravity, and therefore ricochets.

      I affirm. They themselves were tested in Chechnya - a bullet entering one place, flew out from another, or even got stuck in a completely different place, having crossed the path and turning a lot in the body, after 5,45 the chances to stay alive are few. 7,62 more there is a chance for a flight through and through. So maybe this is the only plus of 5,45, but there are more minuses. 7,62 better.
      1. Bosk
        Bosk 15 May 2013 19: 36 New
        +4
        In fact, I think that the "shifted center" is a myth, the 5.45 bullet itself is light and unstable, and from this, when it meets an obstacle, it ricochets or starts spinning on the edge causing considerable damage to the campaign. Take at least a bullet from the M-16, it also starts spinning when it meets the target, but for some reason it is not called a bullet with a "displaced center" explaining its behavior by the same ease and, accordingly, instability.
        1. astra
          astra 15 May 2013 21: 28 New
          +2
          It is possible that the myth. I just brought real cases, but their damage is greater than from 7,62, provided that it gets into soft tissues. We even shot some bronics in the hope of a bullet for a take-off
        2. Zynaps
          Zynaps 15 May 2013 23: 07 New
          +2
          Quote: Bosk
          Actually, I think the "off center" is a myth.


          a myth is not a myth, but the center of gravity of the 5.45 bullet is closer to the bottom of the bullet, which is why its instability is caused when it collides with light objects and somersaults when it gets into the carcass.

          Quote: Bosk
          Take at least a bullet from the M-16, it also starts spinning when it meets the target, but for some reason it is not called a bullet with a "displaced center"


          5.56 bullets prone to fragmentation - break on the belt. The network is full of cuts of wound channels after bullets of various calibers hit the ballistic gel.
          1. Droid
            Droid 16 May 2013 20: 06 New
            0
            Center of mass any a pointed bullet (unless special measures are taken) is shifted to its bottom. This is a simple consequence of its geometry.
        3. JIaIIoTb
          JIaIIoTb 16 May 2013 00: 12 New
          +5
          I agree. Take a baby toy called Yula and spin it. The stronger the rotation speed of the whirligig, the more stable it is, losing the whirligig speed begins to whirl, and if you try to stop the whirligig from spinning, it will go into a "runaway". A 5.45 caliber bullet works on approximately the same principle. There is not any displaced center, the physics of the bullet's movement from its lightness, friction against the air and changes in trajectory when it touches an obstacle.
          Sincerely.
      2. Larus
        Larus 16 May 2013 16: 02 New
        0
        Who was tested on?
      3. Droid
        Droid 16 May 2013 20: 04 New
        0
        7,62x39 worse for a whole bunch of parameters. And this pile greatly outweighs its advantages.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 15 May 2013 10: 29 New
    +1
    With the help of these hand-held flamethrowers, which essentially shoot ammunition of a volumetric explosion, it was very effective to “smoke” the enemy from enclosed spaces,
    It seems to me that after such smoking, the gobies do not remain ...
  • IRBIS
    IRBIS 15 May 2013 11: 15 New
    15
    The weapon "wedges" not from soot, but from an ugly attitude towards it. For the entire time of using various types of AK in different situations, I have never encountered problems of this kind. There were "bases" with old and spoiled ammunition, but the AK is above all praise.
    I love PKM, I'm just "in love" with this machine gun! Having received a pair in the form of "trophies", I refused to hand them over and trained the soldiers to be machine gunners. With them it was possible to change any, even the most worthless "alignment".
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 15 May 2013 11: 45 New
      +3
      RMB is really power! And Pecheneg left only positive emotions.
      1. kot11180
        kot11180 16 May 2013 09: 32 New
        0
        the only drawback of the Pecheneg in my opinion, due to the displacement of the handle, the rear center of gravity is inconvenient to carry
  • Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 15 May 2013 11: 26 New
    +4
    As warfare is conducted, weapons of any and any caliber appear.
    In dense fire, it is advisable to shoot once - to get in and change the firing position. Hidden movement is the key to health.
    Often a shot of RPG or "bumblebee, lynx" is enough for this.
    According to the concentration of the enemy, 4-5 grenade launchers 1-2 volleys are effective - change the firing position.
    "Rumble" especially at night is similar to death.
    I do not remember problems with the AK-74. Stretched the springs of the stores. The accuracy of the first shot with a grenade launcher (with a grenade) is excellent.
    Before the battle, I always tried to prepare the enemy with several shots from the tank (tanks, fighting vehicles behind infantry).
  • yanus
    yanus 15 May 2013 12: 00 New
    +1
    I was always a little surprised by the relatively small number of RPO "Bumblebee" and RShG among motorized riflemen and so on. Even in the example given in the article, I had to involve "flamethrowers". The price of "flamethrowers" does not differ much from RPGs, and the effectiveness in the fight against infantry, and not only in urban conditions, is much higher.
    The destruction of armored vehicles has long been transferred to aviation. It's time to shift the focus from RPG to RSHG for motorized riflemen. RPG to leave "for show" just in case. With the Airborne Forces, special forces - there, of course, it will take a lot of versatility and the RPG should still occupy a significant share of the combat crews.
  • USNik
    USNik 15 May 2013 13: 22 New
    +1
    AKM is naturally better than AK-74, but according to (from the Hansa) one fighter from the counterterrorism unit, he will prefer AK-74 and 8 stores than AKM and 6 ...
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 15 May 2013 13: 33 New
      -2
      What is a hansa? and what does it mean ak-74 and 8 stores than AKM and 6
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 16 May 2013 02: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Gleb
        What is a hansa? and what does it mean ak-74 and 8 stores than AKM and 6

        Hansa Hansa is a forum for gunsmiths ...
        talks.guns.ru
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 16 May 2013 09: 11 New
          0
          understand. thank you!
          but we can figure it out without them wink
    2. Droid
      Droid 16 May 2013 20: 08 New
      0
      Which is better? Desirable on points.
      1. USNik
        USNik 17 May 2013 16: 29 New
        0
        According to the fighter, in modern combat, both in open areas and during the storming of premises, it is vital to create the maximum density of fire. Therefore, they pull on as many cartridges as possible, and you will agree that 5.45 ammunition can be taken more than 7.62, if taken by weight. Well, and secondly, they basically shoot at once to kill them and they have few hostage situations, and a 5.45 caliber bullet gives more rebound from the walls than they use valia spirits. soldier
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 17 May 2013 19: 57 New
          -1
          it’s necessary to bring such nonsense here. With your own head think the next time, and not drag opinions.
          they use a rebound .. American tales seen enough about the angle of reflection?
          that ammunition 5.45 can be taken more than 7.62, if taken by weight
          that he understood and balabol. nowhere did he fight.
  • paunch
    paunch 15 May 2013 13: 53 New
    0
    I wish someone else wrote about pistols in such detail. In relation to a specific combat situation ...
    1. the47th
      the47th 15 May 2013 14: 33 New
      +1
      Stechkin is our everything! wink
      1. Zynaps
        Zynaps 15 May 2013 23: 19 New
        +4
        as the one who carried the APS by the nature of the service, I will say. Stechkin's pistol is reliable, accurate, an Orthodox 9 mm bullet accelerates no worse than the same "Luger". but. not the most comfortable grip of the handle, too heavy (and expensive to manufacture, by the way), nafig do not need an automatic fire mode, a regular holster is the work of a mentally ill person.

        in Afghanistan, there were cases of death of intelligence officers due to the sticking of a cartridge. experienced people said that they were worn exactly once on military APS, then they changed APS to PM, because all one is not the main weapon.
    2. Hudo
      Hudo 15 May 2013 19: 43 New
      0
      Quote: paunch
      I wish someone else wrote about pistols in such detail. In relation to a specific combat situation ...


      The article is about weapons without which it is without hands, and a pistol for a motorized infantry gun, weapons are not the most important. About the pistols - to specialists.
  • ramsi
    ramsi 15 May 2013 17: 09 New
    +2
    I generally wonder why thermobaric charges are so small. In my opinion, they are often much more effective in infantry than high-explosive
    1. Zynaps
      Zynaps 15 May 2013 23: 23 New
      +3
      Quote: ramsi
      In my opinion, they are often much more effective in infantry than high-explosive


      that's exactly what you think. thermobaric charge efficiency strongly Depends on the terrain and even weather conditions. in the forest, with strong wind and rain, their efficiency is near-zero.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 16 May 2013 08: 06 New
        0
        and why in the forest? They, like, to clean the green stuff and come up with? ..
  • MAG
    MAG 15 May 2013 17: 15 New
    +7
    I had an AKS-74, even when shooting 12 magazines there were no delays when breaking through, I put reinforced cartridges (with purple paint on the tip) the engine block for 7 punched. If you shoot a couple, then the accuracy is better than that of AKM. The springs in the stores were stretched and the last 2 cartridges of the tracer were fastened by the shops in one side and the gasket between them was a cassette, but then it was sorted out a bit heavy. Unloading was sewn by oneself from pouches whoever sewn a scarlet, and I type RPS, but on the lower abdomen. You bite off the tip of the bullet and when hit it turns out to be ravage, but it only stops shooting at dogs immediately. I didn’t shoot from a bumblebee, I can’t say anything. He took 8 stores and 600 rounds of ammunition on top of one F-ku and 2 TNT checkers of 200 grams each with adhesive tape with nuts, 2 lights and one crane and one green. Hip flask of water sti on akc.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 15 May 2013 18: 04 New
    0
    With a small artisanal refinement with a file or file in the field, the bullet can be imparted with large destructive properties to affect the enemy's manpower.


    Good old bullets doom-doom.
  • groom
    groom 15 May 2013 18: 27 New
    +1
    There were several articles on this site about the Mosin rifle. One of the drawbacks was called strong recoil. But they shot and shot a lot, and the complexion of the "average" conscript more than a hundred years ago was much slender than the current one.
    It might be worth considering a larger than 6,5 gauge. This is just my personal guess. Modern materials are capable of making weapons somewhat lighter - just don't chase after cheapness. The "cost" of a modern fighter is much higher than it was quite recently. And personal weapons today should be expensive, otherwise we will remain Scythians. In the sense - shoot less to hit more often.
    1. Smoke
      Smoke 15 May 2013 19: 41 New
      +6
      heh) you forget that 100 years ago, Russia was an agrarian country with a predominance of hard manual labor in households, so the average conscript 100 years ago, who did not die during childbirth and in the first 5-6 years after his birth, and even grown up in kind products and untouched ecology, will give a couple of hundred points of handicap to the current draftees in terms of physical strength, endurance and unpretentiousness ...
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 15 May 2013 19: 50 New
        +2
        and there is.
        there was still a case, I met a girl in the same brigade. She with the SVD smashed all the myths about "slenderness"
      2. Andrey57
        Andrey57 15 May 2013 21: 45 New
        +4
        In confirmation of what you said, my grandfather 1905g., Who grew up in the village, had a height of 184cm and in 76 years he chopped oak comels with fire with one hand, and the neighboring grandfathers who remained alive after the war were not small, but about the strength I don't speak at all hi
        1. Zynaps
          Zynaps 15 May 2013 23: 40 New
          +1
          this is a serious disclaimer: in the village. The Great Don Army in the Russian Empire was something like an offshore company and represented a state within a state. The Cossacks were going to be dispossessed under the tsar, even before WWI (read the work of the former Minister of War Kuropatkin "Russian Army"), but first the Russian-Japanese, then the Revolution of 1905, then WWI interfered. and then everything began. from refusal to serve while preserving privileges, to self-deception and forced decossackization and genocide of non-Cossacks. but all the time the Cossacks were exempt from the tax and had considerable benefits, in contrast to the typical Russian farmer, who interrupted at the best time from bread to kvass and from nettle to quinoa in hunger.

          both of my grandfathers, who came from the Russian peasantry, were small-sized. in their families, before the revolution, two children per family survived ...
      3. Zynaps
        Zynaps 15 May 2013 23: 29 New
        +3
        you forget that on the border of the 46th and XNUMXth centuries in Russia, because of hunger and poor nutrition (lack of animal protein), a call to the Russian Army was twice broken. because after the abolition of serfdom, the peasants released not landlessness and pasture. the master was obliged to feed his serfs in a lean year. and the typical size of the gymnast of the Russian miraculous heroes in WWI was a teenage number similar to our XNUMXth.
  • Skuratov
    Skuratov 15 May 2013 21: 51 New
    0
    In my opinion, for an infantryman a self-loading rifle is preferable than an automatic rifle. The aiming range is higher, the accuracy of the battle is higher, you can use a more powerful cartridge. Of course, the capacity of the store decreases. But here it is already necessary to choose.
    1. Anat1974
      Anat1974 15 May 2013 22: 52 New
      +2
      It depends on the conditions. For example, in the conditions of Grozny, the battle range was practically not important, but the rate of fire and capacity of the store were of importance. Although they didn’t like 5,45, they took Chekhov’s 7,62 (if it turned out), but they didn’t have any souls in PKM.
      1. Skuratov
        Skuratov 17 May 2013 19: 46 New
        0
        Dear Anat, when he served in the MMG, we taught our soldiers to shoot in single-shot mode, but this does not mean 1 shot per minute. In this mode, the accuracy of the fire increases, in principle, a sufficient rate of fire, but the store did not fly away in seconds and nowhere. And I don’t write off PCM anywhere, I myself really like this machine wink
    2. Zynaps
      Zynaps 15 May 2013 23: 42 New
      0
      This is the post-war concept of the British. they say, we distribute self-loading to the soldiers, and we compensate for the intensity of the fire by saturating the platoons with machine guns. refused. and for a long time already. in close combat, the effectiveness of automatic fire has not been canceled.
    3. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 16 May 2013 15: 40 New
      0
      Rave. An ordinary person, even with the most sophisticated bells and whistles, cannot shoot more or less precisely at a distance of more than 500 m.
      Z.Y. Have you ever shot a rifle 150-200 times in a row?
      1. O_RUS
        O_RUS 17 May 2013 00: 34 New
        0
        would you specify what kind of weapon you are writing about and what kind of bells and whistles?
      2. Skuratov
        Skuratov 17 May 2013 21: 51 New
        0
        They shot from SVD? Well, and what problems shoot 150 rounds in a row from this rifle? Or do you still have a rifle associated with Mosinka? By the way, I shot from it. The sensations can not be conveyed, the shoulder was cramped for a day, the SVD in power can not be compared.
        1. Droid
          Droid 17 May 2013 23: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Skuratov
          They shot from SVD? Well, and what problems shoot 150 rounds in a row from this rifle? Or do you still have a rifle associated with Mosinka? By the way, I shot from it. The sensations can not be conveyed, the shoulder was cramped for a day, the SVD in power can not be compared.

          The problem is that if you shoot more than 100 rounds from the SVD without cooling the barrel, the resource will be significantly reduced. If you didn’t shoot them during the day, of course.
    4. Droid
      Droid 16 May 2013 20: 13 New
      0
      And the fact that self-loading, for example, SVT-40 is inferior to the AK74 in firing efficiency by 2 times, is if you shoot alone - this is garbage. The main cartridge is more powerful.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 17 May 2013 19: 06 New
        0
        But how was this calculated?
        1. Droid
          Droid 17 May 2013 21: 04 New
          0
          Quote: ramsi
          But how was this calculated?

          If this is a question for me, then it is very simple. AK74 ballistics up to 400 m are slightly better than SVT, AK400 wind drift at 74 m is slightly larger (~ 8%), trembling handles, pointing errors and ragged descent are not dependent on weapons. Total, the probability of hitting a target from SVT and AK74 with one shot will be almost the same, but ...
          But the SVT combat rate of fire is 20 rpm, and the AK74 is 40 rpm. A shooter with an AK74 shoots corny twice as fast, in an equal amount of time, he can fire twice as many targets and therefore double as many targets as hit (on average).
          1. ramsi
            ramsi 17 May 2013 21: 09 New
            0
            I, of course, understand that you are a fan of small things and you have your own cockroaches in your head, but mine, for some reason, they tell me that it will be "liquid"
            1. Droid
              Droid 17 May 2013 21: 37 New
              +1
              Practice speaks against your cockroaches. You will ask why the SCS, which was part of the armament system on a par with the AK, was soon forced out of the rifle units and remained only at the guard of honor and in those rare units that were not planned to be used as riflemen in the war, and therefore their rearmament was on a residual basis. The reason is simple, despite the slightly higher accuracy of the SCS, the combat rate of fire of the AK was significantly higher and this determined the result.
              1. ramsi
                ramsi 17 May 2013 21: 53 New
                0
                SCS, like AKM, uses an intermediate cartridge, which I really dislike, and CBT ...- well, you know
                1. Droid
                  Droid 17 May 2013 23: 52 New
                  0
                  Nevertheless, in terms of efficiency, AKM is self-loading despite the worst ballistics of the 7,62x39 cartridge. And the ballistics of a cartridge of 5,45x39 to 500 m does not differ from 7.62x54.
                  1. ramsi
                    ramsi 18 May 2013 07: 17 New
                    0
                    yeah, that's what I see, snipers under a 5mm cartridge are simply "felled" (in this case, I mean a weapon for single shooting)
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 15 May 2013 23: 31 New
    +1
    the choice of type of weapon depends on the tasks
  • Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 16 May 2013 04: 47 New
    0
    You know, fastening with a jack (69) or in pairs (66) is a real holivar (you can drive it in and read it in Google). But the most practical organization is the army, and if it uses all this then "If it is stupid, but it works, then it is not stupid." (C) Murphy's law about the army.
    Considering that, as you correctly noticed, shops on 40 and 45 are rare, and modular vests (6B112) will be in five or seven years only in all of them (now 6B92 and 6B104 are not based on allowing you to change how you want the location of the pouches in two projections), by itself the conclusion about the use of sparks suggests itself.
  • O_RUS
    O_RUS 17 May 2013 00: 32 New
    0
    Quote: gabs
    As far as I know, 5,45 cartridges with a displaced center of gravity, and therefore ricochets.


    m yes ....
  • Droid
    Droid 18 May 2013 08: 54 New
    0
    Quote: ramsi
    yeah, that's what I see, snipers under a 5mm cartridge are simply "felled" (in this case, I mean a weapon for single shooting)

    Do you know about the 6mm SVK sniper rifle? And the fact that it exceeds the SVD in firing efficiency by an average of 2,3 times? Unfortunately, the development of a 6-mm rifle cartridge and rifle occurred in the late 80s. What happened next we know.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 18 May 2013 14: 26 New
      0
      Thanks, read. So what is so unattainable for 7.62 caliber showed 6mm? I’m not saying that the Mosin cartridge is an ideal. A bullet - a little lighter, other rifling - and even with the same weight of gunpowder, it will be possible to drive the speed under 1000m / s. In my opinion, the Winchester has something similar, and, probably, not only it. Well, the return when shooting single - is not critical.
      1. Droid
        Droid 19 May 2013 14: 14 New
        +1
        Almost everything is unattainable. To begin with, the bullet of a 7,62 mm cartridge is already light, the cartridge is called LPS - with a light bullet. An increase in speed of ~ 1/4 will lead to an increase in energy by 45%. So it is necessary to increase the powder suspension, and this will lead to an increase in the dimensions and mass of the cartridge. This means that the size of the store and receiver, as well as their mass, will increase. As a result, we will have a large and heavy rifle with small ammunition.
        In general, the story with the M14 will be repeated, despite the fact that the US military adored the 7,62 caliber (and sold it), and in Vietnam they quickly jumped to 5,56 and M16.
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        4. ramsi
          ramsi 19 May 2013 21: 31 New
          0
          I can’t add a picture. See for yourself: Orsis T 5000. You can here: http: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D2-5000
          1. Droid
            Droid 20 May 2013 20: 33 New
            0
            In the niche for which the SVD was created, the T-5000 will be the loser. Because it is important there not the technical accuracy of 0.5 MOA, but the ability to quickly take a few shots. Why do we need first of all automatic reloading and a fairly small mass. The T-5000 is a weapon for special units, in the hands of a sniper acting as part of a unit and in his (unit) interests on the battlefield, the SVD will have a significant advantage, and the 6-mm SVK will be even better.
            But are we talking about ordinary motorized rifles? That's why I started a conversation about the M14. This is a rifle with one of the shortest lifetimes before being replaced by another weapon. The Vietnam War showed what ORO experts were talking about back in the early 50s. In the hands of an ordinary shooter, the density of fire, the flatness of the trajectory and the magnitude of the BC rule.
            1. ramsi
              ramsi 21 May 2013 06: 55 New
              0
              and I'm not talking about replacing SVD - I'm talking about the initial speed of the cartridge .308 winchester (7.62x51). Note, the cartridge is less than Mosin. Cartridge .300 winchester magnum (7.62X53) - approximately equal to Mosin, but its initial speed is even higher. The .300 winchester magnum cartridge (7.62x67) is more than the Mosin cartridge, but the speed is already beyond 1000m / s. It seems to me that a two-bullet cartridge will have a sleeve of at least 70 mm, and the weight of bullets is about 6 g. Also, this cartridge could have another option, when the first bullet would receive a streamlined elongation at the rear, and the second would degenerate into a detachable pallet. I think that the first spindle-shaped bullet with a weight of about 7 g would have a center of gravity close to the center and a streamlined shape in the entire speed range. In any case, she would have developed a speed of 1100m / s for sure. (Look at the traditional .300 weatherby magnum)

              By the way, SVK and Orsis are not very suitable for replacing SVD: judging by the insignificant superiority of SVK over SVD at a distance of 600m and obvious progression, it can be assumed that at shorter distances there are no advantages at all. And for the standard mass rifle of the infantry squad ... yes, one hanging barrel - what is it worth.
              1. Droid
                Droid 21 May 2013 11: 37 New
                0
                I'm talking about the initial speed of the cartridge .308 winchester (7.62x51)

                A link can be made to the .308 win cartridge (7,62x51) with an initial speed of at least 900 m / s. And then I did not find. And on Wiki, there is a suspicion that the speed for .338LM is indicated.
                Cartridge .300 winchester magnum (7.62X53) - approximately equal to Mosin, but its initial speed is even higher.

                Not equal. There are no miracles, the sleeve of this cartridge has a larger volume and this is achieved not by increasing the length, but by increasing the diameter of the sleeve. Unfortunately I did not find the mass of this cartridge, but it should be more than 7,62x54. And as I said, increasing the dimensions of the cartridge leads to an increase in the dimensions of the store and the receiver, and the high pressure of the magnums leads to a thicker / heavier barrel. As a result, we have an increase in the mass and dimensions of the rifle. And if for shops that are used by special parts this is not critical, because the pros with a solid margin outweigh the minuses, then for an ordinary sniper or shooter this is critical.

                By the way, SVK and Orsis are not very suitable for replacing SVD: judging by the insignificant superiority of SVK over SVD at a distance of 600m and obvious progression, it can be assumed that at shorter distances there are no advantages at all.

                At shorter distances, as at long distances, the ICS will take ballistics. The initial velocity of the bullet is higher by 300 m / s (with a recoil momentum by a quarter less), which leads to the fact that the corrections for wind and target movement (and therefore errors) will be significantly less. Of course, at very short distances, the difference will be small, but up to 200 m AK74 or M16 with optics devotes them all simply because of the smaller mass and dimensions and significantly lower recoil momentum, especially when shooting from unstable positions.
                1. ramsi
                  ramsi 21 May 2013 18: 26 New
                  0
                  here is the link: http://www.ohotnik.net/feb2005/1/3/
                  about WSM - yes, I haven’t seen self-loading rifles yet. Sliding Shutter: FN SPR
                  1. Droid
                    Droid 24 May 2013 10: 14 New
                    0
                    So there is 7,62x54 with an initial speed of 900 m / s. This is 70 m / s more than the cartridge 7,62 LPS, and the board is to increase the maximum pressure in the barrel and reduce the resource. For a hunter, this is invisible, but for a soldier who in one battle can shoot the hunter's annual rate, this is important.

                    A disadvantage of multi-bullet cartridges is their worse ballistics compared to single-bullet cartridges (half the mass of a bullet and the worst shape factor). Two types of ammunition will have to be used: single-bullets, when shooting from stable positions at medium and long distances, and multi-bullets, for shooting at short range from unstable positions. This is exactly what happened with the M14, two-bullet cartridges 7,62x51 were specially developed for it. As a result, as we know, the M14 replaced the M16.

                    The advantages of the same AN-94 and TKB-0146 is that the cartridge ballistics are unchanged under all shooting modes, because a standard cartridge is used.
                    1. ramsi
                      ramsi 24 May 2013 21: 22 New
                      0
                      [Quote = Droid] and the board is to increase the maximum pressure in the barrel and reduce the resource. For a hunter, this is invisible, but for a soldier who in one battle can shoot the hunter's annual rate, this is important.
                      According to the memoirs, in my opinion, Astafyeva, the infantryman lives on the offensive for about a week, with a maximum of 7 days.

                      [quote = Droid] The disadvantage of multi-bullet cartridges is their worse ballistics compared to single-bullet cartridges (half the mass of a bullet and the worst form factor).
                      Why the worst aspect ratio? Why should the "half" bullet mass (from 9 to 6 grams) drastically worsen ballistics at 400m? And who said that two bullets must be inserted into the Mosin cartridge ?!

                      [quote = Droid] Two types of ammunition will have to be used: single-bullets, when shooting from stable positions at medium and long distances, and multi-bullets, for shooting at short distances from unstable positions.
                      Two types in a standard cartridge case are like an ordinary and sniper cartridge, in addition, nothing prevents you from equipping these cartridges with conventional or newly developed bullets

                      [quote = Droid] This is exactly what happened with the M14, two-bullet cartridges 7,62x51 were specially developed for it. As a result, as we know, the M14 replaced the M16.
                      It's true.

                      [quote = Droid] The advantages of the same AN-94 and TKB-0146 is that the cartridge ballistics are unchanged for all shooting modes, because a standard cartridge is used.
                      Never queue at an average distance of 200-400m of two conventional cartridges can not be compared with a single shot of a two-bullet.
                      AN-94 - these are ordinary cartridges, TKB - sniper. (The same eggs, only in profile)
                      1. Droid
                        Droid 25 May 2013 09: 44 New
                        0
                        Why the worst aspect ratio? Why should the "half" bullet weight (from 9 to 6 grams) drastically worsen the ballistics at 400m?

                        Because the lateral load of the bullet will drop from 19.6 g / cm12.2 to 1.6 g / cmXNUMX, which will affect ballistics. The bullet will slow down more. Also, reducing the bullet mass by XNUMX times will either lead to a decrease in the length of the bullet, which will worsen the shape factor, or to the fact that a third of the bullet will be occupied by the void.

                        Two types in a standard cartridge case are like an ordinary and sniper cartridge, in addition, nothing prevents you from equipping these cartridges with conventional or newly developed bullets

                        Ballistics will hurt. One thing is a long bullet weighing 9.6 g, another 6 g (and possibly shortened). Ballistics will be different and will require at least 2 scales on the aiming plate for one- and two-bullet cartridges, which is not buzzing.

                        Never queue at an average distance of 200-400m of two conventional cartridges can not be compared with a single shot of a two-bullet.

                        According to Ruslan Chumak (editor of the Kalashnikov magazine), when shooting while standing with one’s hand, the distance between two holes (two) is, on average, 7–9 cm per 100 m. At 400, it will be 28–36 cm. Standing with hands.
  • Skuratov
    Skuratov 18 May 2013 13: 37 New
    0
    Quote: Droid
    Quote: Skuratov
    They shot from SVD? Well, and what problems shoot 150 rounds in a row from this rifle? Or do you still have a rifle associated with Mosinka? By the way, I shot from it. The sensations can not be conveyed, the shoulder was cramped for a day, the SVD in power can not be compared.

    The problem is that if you shoot more than 100 rounds from the SVD without cooling the barrel, the resource will be significantly reduced. If you didn’t shoot them during the day, of course.

    Dear colleagues, I do not urge the SVD to make the main rifle, after all, this is a specialized weapon, I am talking about the fact that it may make sense to equip the infantry with not such quick-fire weapons, but more powerful and accurate, maybe even a caliber of 6,5 mm.
    1. Droid
      Droid 19 May 2013 14: 20 New
      +1
      It will not be more accurate. For example, the accuracy of AK74 is such that it allows you to hit a growth at 600 m with the first shot, have you often seen such results?
      The weakest link in the complex is man. These are the trembling hands of a shooter, adrenaline walking in the blood, a downed breath, as well as shooting at unmeasured distances and without taking into account the wind, lead to such results. Experts have long understood that you can’t alter a person, and therefore they rely on the persistence of the trajectory and the density of fire. It will be more reliable.
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  • ramsi
    ramsi 25 May 2013 11: 15 New
    0
    Quote: Droid
    Because the lateral load of the bullet will drop from 19.6 g / cm12.2 to 1.6 g / cmXNUMX, which will affect ballistics. The bullet will slow down more. Also, reducing the bullet mass by XNUMX times will either lead to a decrease in the length of the bullet, which will worsen the shape factor, or to the fact that a third of the bullet will be occupied by the void.

    at 400m it will not affect in any way

    Quote: Droid
    Ballistics will hurt. One thing is a long bullet weighing 9.6 g, another 6 g (and possibly shortened). Ballistics will be different and will require at least 2 scales on the aiming plate for one- and two-bullet cartridges, which is not buzzing.

    firstly, not 9 - but 7 (and possibly with a reduced powder charge, I am theorizing)
    and secondly, - a long bullet with a full charge - a purely sniper cartridge

    Quote: Droid
    According to Ruslan Chumak (editor of Kalashnikov magazine), when shooting while standing with one’s hand, the distance between two holes (two) is, on average, 7–9 cm per 100 m. At 400 this will be 28–36 cm. Standing with a hand.

    first, let me know, from which trunk?
    and secondly, at 400m - it is very doubtful that he will hit the target with the first bullet
    1. Droid
      Droid 25 May 2013 11: 44 New
      0
      at 400m it will not affect in any way

      It will affect. For example, there are two tables of elevations and drift by wind, for a bullet of 9.6 g (BC = 0.427) and 6 g (BC = 0.268) with an initial speed of 900 m / s.
    2. Droid
      Droid 25 May 2013 11: 45 New
      0
      Another picture.
    3. Droid
      Droid 25 May 2013 11: 46 New
      0
      first, let me know, from which trunk?

      AN-94.
      and secondly, at 400m - it is very doubtful that he will hit the target with the first bullet

      The point is that if you miss the first, then there is a chance to get the second.
  • ramsi
    ramsi 25 May 2013 17: 19 New
    0
    Well, I accept the objection to ballistics, although it seems to me that your tables are somewhat abstract: in reality, with the same cartridges, bullet sizes and shape, it is lighter, with the same charge of gunpowder should have a higher muzzle velocity (or heavier - less), which should affect the final results; after all, 3 grams is a good third of a nine grams. In addition, it is assumed that the bullets are fired from one barrel - which means that the barrel has rifling, sharpened for a heavier bullet - here, too, you can add. Well, okay, but how does 5mm look against this background ... - in my opinion, not too much better - huh? .. Besides, the two-bullet version for the "two" - theoretically looks better, and practically seems more real.