Military Review

T-90C arrived at Peru exhibition

85
According to a Peruvian resource www.defensa.com from 10 May 2013, the T-2013С tank arrived in Peru to participate in the SITDEF-90 exhibition. At the end of the exhibition it is planned to expand its show to the leadership of the armed forces of Peru.


T-90C arrived at Peru exhibition

At the same time, in the media, some competing firms are trying to rekindle an unhealthy excitement around, in principle, an ordinary event. Hysteria is escalating over a certain “mega-tender” in which the Russian T-90C tank, the American M1A1 Abrams, the German Leopard-2A4 (offered by Spain) and the Leopard-2E6 (offered by the Netherlands), Ukrainian T-64E and T- allegedly take part 84 "Hold". Regarding the latter, we already wrote in the message “Armored Lies of Ukraine-2”. As for the "Abrams" and "Leopards" - these are good Tanksworthy of study and attention, but nothing more. The fact is that owning these war machines is too expensive a pleasure.


It is not feasible for the economy of Peru. At the same time, as regards especially used Spanish and Dutch Leopards, the problem of supplying them with spare parts arises in full growth. But the most important thing is that Germany did not give and will not give its permission to re-export these tanks to Peru. So fans of sensations, please calm down. The delivery of T-90C to Peru is a practically resolved issue. And the whole bestial howl and whine, about the rest of the tanks indicated above, are nothing more than partisan "wishes" of interested competing companies.


In retrospect, it is worth remembering that exactly the same way 1,5-2 a year ago, Ukrainian propagandists tried to influence the decision on the purchase of tanks by Azerbaijan. To this end, information was also taken about the alleged “interest” of the Azerbaijani military to the Oplot tank through the national press. However, it did not roll out and the contract for 200 T-90С tanks was received by Russia. Likewise, Ukraine and other European “rogue women” will not even have a ride in Peru.
Originator:
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/
85 comments
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  1. patline
    patline 13 May 2013 11: 29
    +4
    Let's hope that it will be so.
    1. Kars
      Kars 13 May 2013 11: 41
      +9
      again a repost from Gurkhanchik)))) well then he doesn’t have a yemets if he’s already counteracting to the corman))

      surely www.defensa.com the resource in Spanish is subordinate to Ukrainian PR managers)))

      Actualmente, el Ejercito del Perú - en el marco del Programa de Modernización de las Fuerzas Armadas (Proyecto Ugarte) - tiene prevista la adquisición de entre 120 y 170 carros de combate que deberán remplazar a los vetustos T-55 incorporados entre 1973 En los últimos meses, el Comité Técnico Evaluador (CETO) - a cargo del General de Brigada EP José Luis Gómez Sánchez - ha evaluado técnicamente al M-78A1 Abrams (EE.UU), al Leopard 1A2 (ofrecido por España) y 4 Holanda), al T-2E y al T-6 OPLOT (Ucrania) y al T-64S. (Alejo Marchessini, Corresponsal de Grupo Edefa en Lima).


      And the most interesting thing is that they brought the usual T-90C and not the MS

      It’s also strange to say that Germany is against re-export to Peru, is there any confirmation? So far, it seems that used leopards have been sold without any problems. As well as spare parts with ammunition - so that everything will have to be imported in a new way, but For the Netherlands, for example, to keep spare parts and ammunition when they removed the tanks, in principle, there is no reason for their weapons, so it is quite an option to supply them with a bonus.

      I hope for the success of the T-64E, what the hell is not joking, it is not for nothing that the Peruvians went on a visit with lard and a vodka were treated.
      1. svp67
        svp67 13 May 2013 11: 44
        +3
        Quote: Kars
        I hope for the success of the T-64E


        Peru is half a mountain country, and the T64E means the chances are very small, almost zero ...
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 May 2013 11: 47
          +3
          ___________________
          1. svp67
            svp67 13 May 2013 12: 46
            0
            An interesting video, but this is more of a simple ADVERTISEMENT, where they recall the "Christie suspension", which was last used by us on the T34. , T64. It is because of the engine and chassis (most of all the tracks). Show me at least one "mountain" district of the USSR or a group of troops where the T72 was in service
            1. Kars
              Kars 13 May 2013 17: 11
              +4
              Quote: svp67
              Interesting video, but this is more simple ADVERTISING

              Strange, but noticed that this is not a Ukrainian video?
              Quote: svp67
              Show me at least one "mountain" district of the USSR or a group of troops where the T64 was in service

              Is this proof? That T-64 was not on Mount Everest? Give a rebuke - about this character - the sent T-64 did not suit us in the mountains, send another tank.
              1. svp67
                svp67 16 May 2013 02: 06
                0
                Quote: Kars
                Strange, but noticed that this is not a Ukrainian video?
                The only thing I noticed was that the officer was wearing Russian camouflage, and I don’t know which country the studio owns the film was in.
              2. svp67
                svp67 16 May 2013 02: 09
                0
                Quote: Kars
                Is this proof? That T-64 was not on Mount Everest? Give a rebuke - about this character - the sent T-64 did not suit us in the mountains, send another tank.
                No one else will ask your country to send a tank, as the party conducting the tender believes that all national specialists, taking care of the prestige of their country, will send their best tank for testing, "sharpened" for the realities of Peru.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 16 May 2013 11: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  Do not ask any other tank to send your country

                  ????????????
                  Quote: svp67
                  Show me at least one "mountain" district of the USSR or a group of troops where the T64 was in service

                  Quote: Kars
                  Is this proof? That T-64 was not on Mount Everest? Give a rebuke - about this character - the sent T-64 did not suit us in the mountains, send another tank.

                  Quote: svp67
                  will send their best tank for testing, "sharpened" for the realities of Peru.

                  Well, let's see
          2. Geisenberg
            Geisenberg 13 May 2013 20: 07
            0
            Quote: Kars
            ___________________ [.com / watch? v = rkyfSHSWwcI]


            ... well done ... advertising your own is good ... for reasons of partiotism. Keep it up.
            1. Kars
              Kars 13 May 2013 20: 43
              +3
              Quote: Geisenberg
              ... well done ... advertising your own is good ... for reasons of partiotism. keep it up

              Only the video is not Ukrainian
      2. Akim
        Akim 13 May 2013 11: 58
        +2
        Quote: Kars
        I hope for the success of the T-64E, what the hell is not joking, it is not for nothing that the Peruvians went on a visit with lard and a vodka were treated.

        There is information that the Peruvian military wants to put a 120-mm gun on the Typhoons, which means that the main tank will most likely be German. Now there is a secret competition between the Israeli "Lakhat" and the Ukrainian "Konus".
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 May 2013 12: 05
          +2
          Quote: Akim
          and the Typhoons want to supply a 120-mm gun, which means that the main tank will most likely be German.

          The main one is the implied presence of two tanks in the armament of the army, even three tanks (I don’t think that they will surrender their T-55s in scrap metal)
          I can assume that the Peruvians prefer the German gun and its ammunition more. But for us this is not a problem - there is installation experience.
          1. Akim
            Akim 13 May 2013 12: 16
            0
            Quote: Kars
            The main? This implies the presence of two tanks in the arsenal of the army

            And so it was planned at the beginning. In response to the Chilean Leopards, the Peruvians wanted to buy a new tank (then the Chinese won because of corruption), and remake the T-55 on the territory of Peru at a joint venture into Typhoons.
        2. ATATA
          ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 06
          +3
          Quote: Akim
          Now there is a secret competition between the Israeli "Lakhat" and the Ukrainian "Konus".

          And what is Ukrainian industry still capable of producing weapons ?!
          Is she capable of fulfilling contracts?
          1. Akim
            Akim 13 May 2013 12: 17
            +1
            Quote: ATATA
            Is she capable of fulfilling contracts?

            Can I not answer this question?
            1. ATATA
              ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 29
              +2
              Quote: Akim
              Can I not answer this question?

              Can.
      3. Reasonable, 2,3
        Reasonable, 2,3 15 May 2013 03: 03
        0
        WHY THE TOWER WERE COVERED? .This is not for you screws apl.
        1. svp67
          svp67 16 May 2013 02: 10
          0
          Quote: Reasonable, 2,3
          WHY THE TOWER WERE COVERED? .This is not for you screws apl.
          Yes, not the screws, but the reason is similar, for the time being to hide new items from curious gas ...
    2. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 13 May 2013 20: 08
      0
      Quote: patline
      Let's hope that it will be so.


      Crushed by authority, without options. Ukraine, if only I estimate to omit thirty percent ...
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 13 May 2013 20: 42
        0
        Quote: Geisenberg
        Quote: patline
        Let's hope that it will be so.


        Crushed by authority, without options. Ukraine, if only I estimate to omit thirty percent ...

        It will not help industry lost the ability to produce tanks in series.
        This is called degradation.
  2. Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 11: 32
    38 th
    Do they seriously expect to give them another modification of the T-72? With a good reputation.
    1. svp67
      svp67 13 May 2013 11: 46
      +8
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      They seriously expect to give them another modification of the T-72

      Not to foist, but to sell. And you just do not seem to understand a lot, each tank has an "Achilles heel". But as much as the T72 fought, no other modern tank in the world fought ...
    2. djon3volta
      djon3volta 13 May 2013 11: 47
      +6
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      With a good reputation.

      the internet is full of pictures of lined leopards and abrams. in tenders there is a quality / price ratio, as well as the political situation in the country. in independent countries like Peru, they can safely choose who to buy from. it's not Japan or South Korea, which they will tell us the United States and they will buy. The Japanese may and would like to have our T-90, but Uncle Sam will not allow them. wassat
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 May 2013 11: 49
        +8
        Quote: djon3volta
        the Japanese can and would like to have our T-90s, but Uncle Sam won't let them

        Or maybe their own industry will not allow them? Japanese make tanks for themselves.
        1. djon3volta
          djon3volta 13 May 2013 11: 55
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          The Japanese make tanks for themselves.

          ok, and those countries that do not make tanks, do they buy them from someone? not in all countries our tanks are bought, but not all American, Chinese, European. I’m sure if Japan was a friendly country for us, then they would have would the S-300 and not a patriot, agree at least in this?
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 May 2013 12: 01
            +5
            Quote: djon3volta
            if Japan was a friendly country for us, then they would have had the S-300 and not a patriot, agree at least in this?

            How am I supposed to know? It is entirely possible that Japan was not so friendly to the United States, it would have made its own system, which by the way does not prevent Japan from trying to make 5th generation fighters on its own.
            1. Sergh
              Sergh 13 May 2013 17: 03
              0
              Quote: Vladimir-89
              T-72? With a good reputation.

              I see you are keenly observant of the Syrian events, so why don't you say that your freeze-frame depicts the defeat of a tank from the roof of the building, and most interestingly, that the RUSSIAN RPG-29 "Vampire". This video has already been chewed up to holes.

              And a vampire, this is any Ki-goat tank.

      2. Babon
        Babon 13 May 2013 11: 56
        +3
        Can I please have a photo of a wounded "leopard" and in what conflicts were they used, tell me? I missed something.
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 13 May 2013 12: 02
          +4
          Quote: Babon
          Can I have a photo of the damaged "leopard"?

          Type YouTube Abrams, Leopard, Merkava, and you will be happy .. yes
    3. Gendalf
      Gendalf 13 May 2013 12: 02
      +4
      They’ve been going on a war for more than two years, tanks are used constantly, very often in the city, and there are only a few such rollers. Here and draw conclusions about his reputation (of course, if you can add at least 2 + 2)
      1. Sergh
        Sergh 13 May 2013 17: 21
        0
        Quote: Gendalf
        but similar videos are units. Here and draw conclusions about his reputation

        Yes, comrade VLADIMIR-89 slightly does not understand that there is a Russian RPG-29. Here's another example, but already in AFGHAN and "Abrams" to pieces ...



        Please ... Israel with his Merkava.

        1. The comment was deleted.
    4. neri73-r
      neri73-r 13 May 2013 12: 10
      +4
      Do they seriously expect to give them another modification of the T-72? With a good reputation.


      Tanks in a city without the normal support of infantry (assault groups) are just targets, and given that they were shot at with our anti-tank weapons, I think that Merkava (Lebanon War), and Abrams and Leopard, and, of course, T -64E, they would have burned in the same way, or even more often, for something, independent Western media are trying not to show footage when they get into a tank in Syria, but it is not affected and continues to carry out a combat mission !!!
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 May 2013 17: 07
        +4
        Quote: neri73-r
        T-64E, would burn in the same way, or even more often

        Well it’s vryatli
        Zetaki DZ not contact 1 or 5
        1. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 17: 12
          0
          Quote: Kars
          Well it’s vryatli
          Zetaki DZ not contact 1 or 5

          Leaving aside what cannot be proven now, just answer why, on such an "advanced" machine, there is an old, if not an old, guided weapon system?
          1. Akim
            Akim 13 May 2013 17: 27
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            Remained an old, if not old, complex of guided weapons?

            What, in your opinion, is included in the KUV system? It is not quite old and quite reliable. Allows you to shoot TURS of the "Combat" or "Reflex-M" type. And teach - this is modernization. Moreover, modernization is cheaper for money than BM Bulat, but in terms of combat characteristics, it is probably even better.
            PS I doubt that he will be taken. To begin with, he should at least ride in the army.
            1. Kars
              Kars 13 May 2013 17: 36
              +2
              Quote: Akim
              PS I doubt he will be taken

              As I understand it, the Peruvians themselves came to see, back in March.
              1. Akim
                Akim 13 May 2013 17: 46
                0
                Quote: Kars
                As I understand it, the Peruvians themselves came to see, back in March.

                If so, then 64 will not be taken. Maybe modernization itself was interested. The same can be done with the T-72. Let's be honest: the suspension of the T-64 requires more attention to itself. And without experience, she will be capricious.
              2. Scythian 35
                Scythian 35 13 May 2013 19: 32
                0
                And we need a beggar Peru !!!? 100 percent will ask for a loan, Ukraine needs it !!!
                1. ATATA
                  ATATA 13 May 2013 20: 44
                  0
                  Quote: Scythian 35
                  And we need a beggar Peru !!!? 100 percent will ask for a loan, Ukraine needs it !!!

                  You first put to Thailand what you owe, and then roll your lip further.
            2. svp67
              svp67 13 May 2013 17: 50
              0
              Quote: Akim
              TOURS type "Combat" or "Reflex-M"
              These missiles carry out laser control, why did GTN boxes remain on the T64E? Forgot to take off?
              1. Akim
                Akim 13 May 2013 18: 15
                0
                Quote: svp67
                why did GTN boxes remain on T64E

                9B59M could have been left in double. There are many "Cobras" on the territory of Ukraine.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 13 May 2013 18: 23
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  There are many "Cobras" in Ukraine

                  Congratulations on this. As I understand it, your industry will be provided for some time with both scrap metal and work on the disposal of these missiles. Their shelf life is not eternal and it has long expired, so the combat value of this complex is "zero" ...
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 13 May 2013 18: 31
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    that the combat value of this complex is "zero" ...


                    I will not lie. For seven years I did not see the shooting of the TOURs (I was not in the tank units).
                    Earlier "Cobras" (up to Yusch) - they shot a lot.
                  2. Kars
                    Kars 13 May 2013 18: 33
                    +3
                    Quote: svp67
                    Their shelf life is not eternal and it has long expired, so the combat value of this complex is "zero" ...

                    This is an exaggerated estimate, they shoot at Desna and nothing. Also, to extend the life is generally a hobby of our factories.
          2. Kars
            Kars 13 May 2013 17: 28
            +2
            Quote: svp67
            advanced "machine has an old, if not an old, guided weapons complex?"

            And where did you get it? A complex of guided weapons that allows firing ATGM Combat at a distance of 5,0 km
            and the LMS is modernized, it will be better to put more money, any whim for the customer’s money

            Quote: neri73-r
            And contact 1 or 5 is that not DZ ??? Do you even distinguish DZ from active defense or from homogeneous armor?

            I distinguish
            All the same, DZ - DZ "Duplet" on the hull and turret of the tank. The kit is designed to increase the level of protection against modern cumulative and armor-piercing armor-piercing shells with the smallest possible increase in tank mass. The kit consists of elements of integrated dynamic protection (VDZ) installed on the tank body, as well as modular sections located on the outer perimeter of the frontal and side sections of the tower and containers installed on the roof of the tower - not Contact 1 or 5
            so do you like more?
            1. svp67
              svp67 13 May 2013 17: 43
              0
              Quote: Kars
              And where did you get it? A complex of guided weapons that allows firing ATGM Combat at a distance of 5,0 km

              On the armor, just in front of the commander's hatch, there is a "box", if I am not mistaken this is the GTN25, and he, in fact, being an antenna, was intended for "radio control" of the missile. Modern complexes use a laser beam for this ...
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 May 2013 17: 58
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                On the armor, just in front of the commander's hatch, there is a "box", if I am not mistaken this is the GTN25, and he, in fact, being an antenna, was intended for "radio control" of the missile. Modern complexes use a laser beam for this ...


                Well I don’t know what you do not like, in the specification clearly write Combat
                gunner’s thermal imaging panoramic sight
                ballistic computer 1V517M
                laser rangefinder 1G42
                sighting and observation complex commander PNK-3
                PZU-5M anti-aircraft gun sight
                guided weapons system that allows firing ATGM Combat at a distance of up to 5,0 km

                http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%82_(%D0%9F%D0%A2%
                D0% A3% D0% A0)
                1. svp67
                  svp67 13 May 2013 18: 04
                  0
                  Quote: Kars
                  Well I don’t know what you do not like, in the specification clearly write Combat
                  you can write a lot of things, but it turns out that the old system is on the prototype ...
                  In this picture, the T64B GTN25 is perfectly visible, this "miracle box" is not needed for the "Reflex" ... and your "Kombat" is just its version ...
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 May 2013 18: 17
                    +1
                    Quote: svp67
                    but it turns out

                    Or maybe this and that?
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 13 May 2013 18: 19
                      +1
                      and here by the way where for laser-guided boxes?
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 13 May 2013 19: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        and here by the way where for laser-guided boxes?
                        The BM "Oplot" used a complex similar to the 9M119, where control is carried out not by radio, but with the help of a laser beam and the "command branch" is mounted in the sight, and all the equipment is much smaller.
                        And BM "Oplot" is not able to shoot "Cobra"
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 13 May 2013 19: 14
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        e control is carried out not by radio, but by means of a laser beam

                        Really? And I asked you to indicate the radio box on the Oplot?
                        Quote: svp67
                        mounted in sight

                        On T-64 E this in your opinion can not be?
                        Quote: svp67
                        And BM "Oplot" is not able to shoot "Cobra"

                        Wow
                      3. svp67
                        svp67 13 May 2013 20: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        On T-64 E this in your opinion can not be?

                        It is quite possible, but the question is WHY? Why is the tank overloaded with an almost useless system, which is ineffective in battle, dangerous for its crew and infantry, and even taking up a lot of space (I'm talking about "Cobra")
                        Quote: Kars
                        Wow
                        Then I don’t understand your sarcasm ... Explain yourself.
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 13 May 2013 20: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        ineffective in battle,

                        In the Peruvian mountains? E is an export tank,
                        Quote: svp67
                        dangerous for its crew and infantry,

                        This is an exaggeration.
                        Quote: svp67
                        Then I don’t understand your sarcasm ... Explain yourself

                        Do you think that I do not know what ATGM BM Oplot has?
                      5. svp67
                        svp67 13 May 2013 21: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        In the Peruvian mountains? E is an export tank,

                        That is, "God forbid, what is not suitable for us" and with this approach you are going to trade honestly ... It's funny.
                        Quote: Kars
                        This is an exaggeration.

                        Alas, the harsh truth. I know a person who received a strong dose and was commissioned because of the "Cobra" ... It is much more terrible than a BPS with uranium cores ...
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 13 May 2013 21: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        That is, "God forbid, what doesn't suit us," and with this approach you are going to trade honestly.

                        And why did you get the idea that it is not good for the Peruvians?
                        and about honestly - this remark would be suitable if something was hiding. And since everything is honest - you want Cobra, get it, replace it.
                        Quote: svp67
                        Alas, the harsh truth. I know a person who received a heavy dose and was commissioned because of "Cobra

                        then prohibit radars too, it’s generally possible to roast there.
                      7. svp67
                        svp67 13 May 2013 21: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        then prohibit radars too, it’s generally possible to roast there.
                        there where there are almost no people’s radars, and tanks are in the battle line, and the density of people in front of them can be very high ...
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 13 May 2013 22: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: svp67
                        and the human density in front of them can be very high ...

                        can he shoot from a cannon?
      2. svp67
        svp67 13 May 2013 18: 19
        0
        Quote: Kars
        Quote: svp67
        but it turns out

        Or maybe this and that?

        This is the specification of the Cobra, the missile used on the T64B. If this miracle tank is capable of shooting with that and that missile, then I feel sorry for the tank crews - there is not much room left for them in the fighting compartment ... Not much at all
        1. Akim
          Akim 13 May 2013 18: 24
          0
          Quote: svp67
          there’s not much room left for them in the fighting compartment ... Not much at all

          Explain yourself? What does this mean?
          BM Bulat can also shoot different types of tours.
        2. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 18: 35
          0
          Quote: Akim
          Explain yourself? What does this mean?
          BM Bulat can also shoot different types of tours.


          The 9M112 equipment takes up a lot of space in the fighting compartment, there is almost no space there, and judging by the photo, this tank has a lot more, so there is even less free space ... And honestly I just don't see the combat value in using this complex, so how he is now easily "suppressed"
        3. Kars
          Kars 13 May 2013 18: 39
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          , since he is now easily "suppressed"

          What and by whom?
          Quote: svp67
          9M112 equipment takes up a lot of space in the fighting compartment

          Maybe borrowed?
        4. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 18: 46
          0
          Quote: Kars
          Maybe borrowed?

          And what is it replaced with?
          Quote: Kars
          What and by whom?

          EW on the battlefield.
        5. Kars
          Kars 13 May 2013 18: 55
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          EW on the battlefield.

          But more concretely? The systems of detecting laser radiation and suppressing in sight - the same as Blind, there is an American version, but I have not met the same cobra.
          Quote: svp67
          And what is it replaced with?

          Yes, even at the hardware level.
        6. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 19: 13
          0
          Quote: Kars
          But more concretely? The systems of detecting laser radiation and suppressing in sight - the same as Blind, there is an American version, but I have not met the same cobra.

          I don’t have the radiation diagrams of this system at hand right now, but believe me, it’s quite wide, so it’s not difficult to find its application, it just “sparkles”, so much so that two tanks using this complex should be at a considerable distance from each other, otherwise, their missiles will no longer obey them. Well, what can you take from the technology of the 70s of development ...
        7. Kars
          Kars 13 May 2013 19: 24
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          with one hand now the radiation patterns of this system

          I don’t need a diagram, you bring a tidy device. I brought it against the Laser Curtain, you bring it against the radar - ?????
        8. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 19: 28
          0
          Quote: Kars
          Quote: svp67
          with one hand now the radiation patterns of this system

          I don’t need a diagram, you bring a tidy device. I brought it against the Laser Curtain, you bring it against the radar - ?????

          Conventional "radio jammers" with the help of multiple launch rocket systems can cover a large area both on the battlefield and in the front line ...
        9. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 May 2013 19: 42
          0
          Against directional antennas? This is troublesome.
        10. Kars
          Kars 13 May 2013 19: 44
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          Conventional "radio jammers" using multiple launch rocket systems can cover a large area both on the battlefield and in the front line.

          Ordinary? But isn’t it easier to cover the tanks with cassettes with anti-tank ammunition?
          And what is a conventional jammer? And how long does it work autonomously in time? How can it be used if tanks are in ambush for example?
        11. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 19: 51
          0
          Quote: Kars
          And what is a conventional jammer? And how long does it work autonomously in time? How can it be used if tanks are in ambush for example?
          A special projectile with a broadband radio transmitter, which, when activated, clogs all frequencies. In addition, this equipment itself, being a source of radio emission, will become an excellent target for missiles with homing heads. And what an ambush is, in modern conditions it is very difficult to hide a tank from instrumental reconnaissance means. the whole weakness of this system is that it takes time to "warm up" it, which is enough now for the guidance and use of more modern weapons on this tank ...
        12. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 May 2013 19: 52
          0
          The jammer should be between the rocket and the launcher. Because the antenna of the rocket is directed back.
          The jammer should work in a very wide range, because there are a lot of carrier frequencies (at the same time), and at the same time one is enough for control. A wide range with small dimensions means a weak signal from the jammer.
        13. Kars
          Kars 13 May 2013 20: 42
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          Special projectile with a broadband radio transmitter

          And the number in the nomenclature?
          Quote: svp67
          the whole weakness of this system is that it takes time to "warm up" it, which is enough now for the guidance and use of more modern weapons on this tank ...

          What did you get it from? And if .. the lamps were changed to transistors ..? And this is also interesting, the rocket is used for targets at a distance of more than 2 km, otherwise it’s easier to beat the BPS. otherwise it makes no sense) to use the radar’s radar not to detect targets, but only to aim the missile
          Quote: svp67
          in modern conditions, the tank is very difficult to hide from instrumental intelligence

          Is this a particular weakness of tanks with Cobra, or is it common?
        14. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 20: 56
          0
          Quote: Kars
          And the number in the nomenclature?

          In our army, for example, this is the 122-millimeter unguided rocket projectile 9М519 for HF and VHF radio interference
        15. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 21: 01
          0
          Quote: Kars
          What did you get it from? And if .. the lamps were changed to transistors ..? And this is also interesting, the rocket is used for targets at a distance of more than 2 km, otherwise it’s easier to beat the BPS. otherwise it makes no sense) to use the radar’s radar not to detect targets, but only to aim the missile


          Back in the mid-80s, there was a small series of T64 with such devices, but I have not seen such tanks anymore, but have not heard of their existence. And missiles are used to hit especially important targets, since they are issued very little, to a tank company - by the piece. And the "Cobra" is so bad that while it is warming up it already "glows", so it facilitates not only its detection, but also guidance by itself ...
  3. Akim
    Akim 13 May 2013 18: 42
    0
    Quote: svp67
    9M112 equipment takes up a lot of space in the fighting compartment

    And you mean it. It "eats up" not so much space. Moreover, the modernized KUV (T-64BM). As for what they left. So the old rockets should be thrown away? To defeat the armored vehicles of Ukraine's western neighbors will be enough.
  4. svp67
    svp67 13 May 2013 18: 48
    0
    Quote: Akim
    And you mean it. It "eats up" not so much space.
    Well, you know, in order to understand this, you need to visit the combat units of the T64B and T64B1 then there will not be any questions and discrepancies ...
  5. Akim
    Akim 13 May 2013 19: 05
    0
    Quote: svp67
    combat units T64B and T64B1

    I sat in 64BV (I did not sit in B1). It’s normal even with my height over 80 (I was a Ravist optician specialized). Sat in BM Bulat. Places there are a bit more. Knowledgeable people speak almost like in B1.
  6. svp67
    svp67 13 May 2013 19: 17
    0
    Quote: Akim
    BM Bulat can also shoot different types of tours.

    "Bulat" shoots only "Combat", so there is no "Cobra" on it ...
  7. Akim
    Akim 13 May 2013 19: 34
    0
    Quote: svp67
    "Bulat" shoots only "Combat", so there is no "Cobra" on it ...

    When Kuzmuk I did not see the "Kombats". I can still admit that they were shooting 9K119.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 13 May 2013 18: 02
    +1
    But what tankers do not have radio command missiles? In vain. They unmask themselves less, and have a much greater speed. And the tales of the Vienna forest that the signal can be easily drowned out are not true.
    1. svp67
      svp67 13 May 2013 18: 42
      0
      Quote: Spade
      But what tankers do not have radio command missiles? In vain. They unmask themselves less

      Tank "Cobra", adopted in the mid-1970's, quite satisfied the customer in terms of combat characteristics, but not operational. It was not a matter of mass and dimensional parameters, but of powerful microwave radiation: the equipment required time to warm up (which might not have been in battle), the soldiers were not recommended to be closer than several hundred meters in front of the T-64B tower, and the damage to the waveguide, quite possible in a battle, it could become fatal for the crew of the whole car otherwise ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 13 May 2013 19: 35
        +1
        What a horror. But what about "Assaults", which are widely used?
  • neri73-r
    neri73-r 13 May 2013 17: 18
    0
    Well it’s vryatli
    Zetaki DZ not contact 1 or 5


    And contact 1 or 5 is that not DZ ??? Do you even distinguish DZ from active defense or from homogeneous armor?
  • Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 13 May 2013 12: 24
    +3
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    Do they seriously expect to give them another modification of the T-72? With a good reputation.

    And why is he worse than this?
    1. Atrix
      Atrix 13 May 2013 12: 42
      0
      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      Do they seriously expect to give them another modification of the T-72? With a good reputation.

      And why is he worse than this?

      Of course there are lined Abrams and Merkava. I looked at the documentary from this photo, they got into it with an RPG, there was a fire, they couldn’t put it out and threw it before blowing it up, they seemed to have an order not to stop the attack, and toss out the wrecked and faulty equipment.
      The question is how protected the crew is in case of hitting the tank. As far as I read, the Soviet (Russian tanks do not seem to drive "Armata" yet) tanks had problems with this.
      1. Hoist
        Hoist 13 May 2013 21: 59
        +1
        All tanks have problems and vulnerabilities, but for some reason always focus only on the Soviet / Russian. Apparently they are more often than others involved in conflicts, moreover they are mostly used in outdated modifications and are often illiterate, which is why they are popular in dousing Mr. @ Mr.. It must be applied correctly, the crews must be trained, support must be provided, then there will be sense. Already got this pro-Western propaganda with commercials in which 72 matches burn directly in whole bundles, only the other factors are always silent. Well, put in the same situation as on a roller a couple of Abrams / Leopards / Merkavas from the mid-80s release, of your choice, shoot the RPG-29 from the roof, I will be interested to look at what will become of them, and I so suspect that nothing is good.
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 14 May 2013 20: 35
        0
        Quote: Atrix
        The question is how protected the crew is in case of hitting the tank. As far as I read, the Soviet (Russian tanks do not seem to drive "Armata" yet) tanks had problems with this.

        There is a simple worldly wisdom - "In ... you can knock out anyone." From this and it is necessary to dance. There are no tanks equally well protected from all sides. Over the past 20 - 30 years, Soviet / Russian tanks have fought either under conditions of complete enemy domination in the air, or in mountainous and wooded areas, or in urban areas. Moreover, at least in the last two circumstances, even with inadequate infantry support.
        In such conditions, that the Abrams, that the Challengers, that the Leopards, that huge humanoid fighting robots, would have suffered comparable losses.
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 13 May 2013 12: 58
    +3
    Vladimir-89

    Registration Date: 11 May 2013 14: 18


    I’m not even joining a palette with you.
    Zadolbali register trolls recently.
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 13 May 2013 18: 11
      0
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      T-72? With a reputation

      Especially for the reputation of Vladimir-89.
      Behind the scenes, where akbarovets homogeneously left, and the tank hero, t-72-beast.

      1. The comment was deleted.
  • svp67
    svp67 13 May 2013 11: 32
    +1
    The supply of T-90С to Peru is a practically resolved issue


    Yes, it would not be bad ... especially since with our country Peru has been giving communications in defense matters.
  • Tarpon
    Tarpon 13 May 2013 11: 33
    0
    The supply of the T-90S to Peru is almost a settled issue.

    Great if so! It is necessary to actively expand the military-technical cooperation with the countries of Latin America!
  • erased
    erased 13 May 2013 11: 34
    +2
    The contract is always good. There would be money.
  • Manager
    Manager 13 May 2013 11: 42
    +1
    I, as usual, are not the topic, but still
    How many modern tanks do we have? Tanks capable of repelling Abramsam and Merkava day and night. T 90 we have no more than 500. And the same Merkava for example 441 Merkava Mk.1, 455 Merkava Mk.2, 454 Merkava Mk.3 and 175 Merkava Mk.4, as of 2010. Now even more. Abrams are finally able to rivet supernorms. They are no longer needed in the army, but they are doing everything for the domestic market.
    So the question is. Again, everything is exported, but as usual until 2020? I don’t agree. No one canceled the nuclear weapons. But still.
    1. svp67
      svp67 13 May 2013 11: 51
      +3
      Quote: Manager
      I, as usual, are not the topic, but still
      I will upset you completely, but so far we do not have a serial tank capable of fighting on equal terms with M1 and L2. Experienced and single - yes. All forces are thrown into fine-tuning the "Armata" and preparing its production, which is simply not enough energy and money to produce more modern modifications in large quantities ...
      1. kot11180
        kot11180 13 May 2013 12: 03
        +1
        why did you decide that t-90 cannot compete with M1 and L2 on equal terms? if possible in more detail
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 09
          0
          Quote: kot11180
          why did you decide that t-90 cannot compete with M1 and L2 on equal terms? if possible in more detail

          I support the question!
          1. Manager
            Manager 13 May 2013 12: 21
            0
            Quote: ATATA
            why did you decide that t-90 cannot compete with M1 and L2 on equal terms? if possible in more detail


            I didn’t decide that. There is simply no Armata yet, this tank is probably the most modern.
            1. kot11180
              kot11180 13 May 2013 12: 40
              +1
              the question was that it was the t-90 that could not fight them, in my opinion the level of all the latest versions of the main tanks is approximately equal, the question arises how to use
            2. ATATA
              ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 41
              0
              Quote: Manager
              I didn’t decide that. There is simply no Armata yet, this tank is probably the most modern.

              Keyword in Your Reasoning "PROBABLY".
              1. Manager
                Manager 13 May 2013 13: 17
                0
                Quote: ATATA
                The key word in your reasoning is "PROBABLY".


                I’m from you, so far I haven’t seen anything good. Of course you can find fault with the comments, but at the same time write something yourself yourself.
                At least I'm not hiding that the "Dilettante" is in tanks. And what the T 90 cited as an example as the most modern Russian tank in my opinion.
                Apart from criticism, I saw absolutely nothing from you.
                1. ATATA
                  ATATA 13 May 2013 13: 23
                  0
                  Quote: Manager
                  Of course you can find fault with the comments, but at the same time write something yourself yourself.

                  And you read at least here, you will find a lot.
                  But I try not to write in my topics about what I know "PROBABLY".
                  And of course, in a dispute I’m not minus for the fact that I do not like criticism of my topics.
                  I do it only in response.
                  1. Manager
                    Manager 13 May 2013 13: 33
                    -1
                    Quote: ATATA
                    And you read at least here, you will find a lot.
                    But I try not to write in my topics about what I know "PROBABLY".
                    And of course, in a dispute I’m not minus for the fact that I do not like criticism of my topics.
                    I do it only in response.


                    Again, one water ........
        2. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 13: 08
          0
          Quote: kot11180
          why did you decide that t-90 cannot compete with M1 and L2 on equal terms? if possible in more detail
          To fight on equal terms with M1 and L2, it is necessary that our tank could shoot BPS of "increased power", which are longer than usual and do not fit into a standard conveyor belt AZ or MZ, to accommodate them now everywhere "turret" MZ are being constructed. There is one more way to increase armor penetration - the use of shells with a "shock core", and again work on these ammunition is "frozen".
          1. ATATA
            ATATA 13 May 2013 13: 17
            0
            Quote: svp67
            To fight on equal terms with M1 and L2, it is necessary that our tank could shoot BPS of "increased power", which are longer than usual and do not fit into a standard conveyor
            Have you forgotten about the T72 / T90 missiles?
            1. svp67
              svp67 13 May 2013 13: 25
              +1
              Quote: ATATA
              missiles about T72 / T90 Have you forgotten?

              And you can answer how many of them are issued for the DIVISION? Notice, not on the tank ...
              1. kot11180
                kot11180 13 May 2013 13: 39
                0
                I think if the real won will be enough missiles
              2. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 14 May 2013 20: 43
                0
                Quote: svp67
                And you can answer how many of them are issued for the DIVISION? Notice, not on the tank ...

                It depends. For a company from 30 to 60 - according to the situation.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 14 May 2013 23: 46
                  0
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  In the company from 30 to 60 - according to the situation.
                  The first figure is closer to the truth, but even then it is very optimistic ... Since the "Cobra" complex imposes many restrictions in its application ...
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 15 May 2013 16: 21
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    The first figure is closer to the truth, but even that is very optimistic ...

                    Well I write - according to the situation. When the deadline for writing off a TUR falls on a less large exercise (now) or on an active database (1995), they give a lot. True, it happens because of poor service of the TOUR and LMS themselves, half of them fly away in the form of blanks, that is, they are not controlled (this is mainly true for TOURs with "expired").
            2. Manager
              Manager 13 May 2013 13: 34
              0
              Quote: ATATA
              Have you forgotten about the T72 / T90 missiles?

              This is even I know. In Kantemirovka even when I was. These missiles are either not issued, or units per unit. But that was in 2002, now I do not know.
              1. ATATA
                ATATA 13 May 2013 15: 47
                +2
                Quote: Manager
                But that was in 2002, now I do not know.

                But minus all the same set!
                Ah well done!
                1. Manager
                  Manager 13 May 2013 16: 57
                  -1
                  Quote: ATATA
                  But minus all the same set!
                  Ah well done!


                  Here's a plus for you not a question. Sorry or what? I'm not sorry! (if I don’t get into the internal rating, put the minuses and pluses) Although the answer is again water =)))
  • bars280
    bars280 13 May 2013 11: 48
    +4
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    Do they seriously expect to give them another modification of the T-72? With a good reputation.

    There is a dozen videos on one such photo where, after hitting, the tank feels fine. Not one tank in the world will provide one hundred percent protection. And do not here la la.
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 11: 52
    12 th
    Not to foist, but to sell. And you just do not seem to understand a lot, each tank has an "Achilles heel". But as much as the T72 fought, no other modern tank in the world fought ...

    I mean that no one has such a "glorious" combat history. To rake in Iraq, when the score for the coalition tanks and the Iraqi ones was under 5000: 5 somewhere.

    Well, and not a weak Achilles heel, I will say: send the crew into the stratosphere when it hits the BC, and the "carousel" is in a very interesting place there. The tower thrower.
    1. Babon
      Babon 13 May 2013 11: 58
      +8
      You, then, still study what weapons they were destroyed from, I would look at the Abrams, if aviation would act against them.
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 13 May 2013 12: 15
        +3
        And he does not need it, he is a provocateur !!!
    2. Larus
      Larus 13 May 2013 12: 01
      +1
      An advanced user, and you write deliberate nonsense and misinformation about the correlation. With the same success, I can throw a couple of photos of Abrams that I didn’t fight at all, unlike our tanks. So go smoke in the bushes and do not write frank nonsense here!
    3. ATATA
      ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 17
      +6
      Abrams, but hard to recognize.
    4. ATATA
      ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 20
      +4
      Merkava. The same is hardly recognized.
      There are problems with Leopard in the internet, well, he practically never fought.
      1. svp67
        svp67 13 May 2013 14: 28
        +2
        Quote: ATATA
        With Leopard on the Internet there are problems

        Main of them
    5. svp67
      svp67 13 May 2013 14: 23
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      Well, not weak Achilles heel,
      This is a war and everything happens on it, but there are no absolutely safe tanks and other weapons ...
  • shark
    shark 13 May 2013 11: 54
    +1
    IMHO - you have to take care of your own aircraft first! And then export. But damn it, money is needed and contracts cannot be given to Ukraine. Remember the national plan. Ukrainians must be completely impoverished in order to return to the bosom of the mother nation)))) (just kidding )
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 11: 54
    0
    Manager, it is worth paying tribute to the Russian beggars: in Lebanon, the Merkava were stitched even in the face.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 02
      +4
      So I do not understand.
      What are you not happy with.
      T72 is out of date, everyone recognizes it, but the latest Merkava is also not a fountain.
      They will make Artmatu a look.
  • ATATA
    ATATA 13 May 2013 11: 58
    +1
    It is interesting to compare the power of the Russian tank industry and Ukrainian.
    Can someone tell us how many Russia and over the past 5 years, how many new tanks and machine kits were produced and how much is Ukraine? But if not possible with compelling links.
    Thank you in advance. hi
    ps Frankly speaking, this is a trick question for the singers of the so-called "Ukrainian tank school".
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 May 2013 12: 10
      +1
      Quote: ATATA
      To be honest, this is a trick question for the singers of the so-called "Ukrainian tank school".

      Tell you personally, does it matter? Or do you like a similar tankscrach? My pocket will not be delayed from their sales. Naturally, Russia has produced more and this is natural. Ukraine has its own buyers - which practically do not intersect with the Russian seller. They didn’t buy tanks, but they bought MTOs, parts of SLAs, TOURs and shells, and also KEPs of KAZ.
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 28
        +5
        Quote: Akim
        Tell you personally, does it matter? Or do you like a similar tankscrach?

        As a citizen of Russia, I cannot care what is happening on the temporarily torn away and occupied part of my homeland.
        Where, under the rule of a collaborative elite, my compatriots are brainwashed.
        And I do not like to read lies about the Ukrainian tank school, which was no longer and never was, but was Soviet.
        1. Akim
          Akim 13 May 2013 12: 34
          +2
          Quote: ATATA
          I, as a citizen of Russia, cannot care what is happening on the temporarily torn away and occupied part of my homeland

          I have never had such a homeland as Russia. It was the homeland of the USSR. Therefore, I ask not a word about the invaders because an interethnic dispute will be going on in the topic of technology.
          1. ATATA
            ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 44
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            I have never had such a homeland as Russia. It was the homeland of the USSR. Therefore, I ask not a word about the invaders because an interethnic dispute will be going on in the topic of technology.

            Well, you asked "Why?", So I answered as I think.
            ps USSR, this is Russia.
            1. Akim
              Akim 13 May 2013 12: 55
              +1
              Quote: ATATA
              ps USSR, this is Russia.

              I do not call it "Ukrainian tank school" either. There is a Kharkov tank school. but located in Ukraine. As for the USSR = Russia, I never thought so. Putin may be. This was evident in the parade. Maybe the socialist system remained in Russia? But on this topic you better go to Beauval in another article. That's where the right social circle is.
        2. Alexander D.
          Alexander D. 13 May 2013 23: 27
          +2
          And I do not like to read lies about the Ukrainian tank school, which was no longer and never was, but was Soviet.

          And where did the Russian tank school come from?
  • Alikovo
    Alikovo 13 May 2013 12: 00
    +1
    Turkmenistan - 10 T-90SA, as of 2011. In the summer of 2011, a contract was signed for the supply of another 30 tanks.
    Uganda - 44 T-90CA, as of 2011.
    Algeria - 185 T-90CA, as of 2012. The supply contract was concluded in 2006 in the amount of $ 1 billion. In total, 300 T-90CA tanks should be delivered.
    India - about 700 T-90S / SA, as of 2012.
    Azerbaijan-Kotract for 100 tanks.
    in these countries, the T-90 is 2 times more than ours. sad
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 12: 01
    -7
    Quote: shark
    IMHO - you have to take care of your own aircraft first! And then export. But damn it, money is needed and contracts cannot be given to Ukraine. Remember the national plan. Ukrainians must be completely impoverished in order to return to the bosom of the mother nation)))) (just kidding )

    Well, even the native MO disdain this catapult and wait for the armature.
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 13 May 2013 12: 06
    +4
    Well, as always, in the comments we will be shown clouded Russian tanks lined with a direct shot from a slingshot, there is only a shortage of the post where the abrams hits and crushes the t-90, oh well gentlemen / comrades there will never be an alternative to Russian tanks, only Americans and homosexuals can afford abrams , German tanks, dull shit, Spanish ..., French ..., there is no alternative, either you are an American or a fag and you are buying an abram who is already over 30, or you are a normal guy and buy a T-90 and the Japanese tank generally sounds like a sentence.
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 12: 07
    -9
    Quote: bars280
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    Do they seriously expect to give them another modification of the T-72? With a good reputation.

    There is a dozen videos on one such photo where, after hitting, the tank feels fine. Not one tank in the world will provide one hundred percent protection. And do not here la la.

    Need, Need. There is no tank in the world that, with the slightest damage to the BC, arranges a tower throwing firework.
    1. bootlegger
      bootlegger 13 May 2013 12: 19
      +3
      What’s the difference with throwing a turret or not? Hitting Abrams’s ammunition will also lead to the death of the entire crew. And the heavy tower will certainly not fly anywhere.
      The flight attendant runs around the plane and checks to see if everyone has fastened their seat belts.
      - And then the day before yesterday when landing, who did not fasten, so they were smeared on the wall.
      - And who was fastened? - the passenger asks, fastening his seat belt.
      “Well, what are you,” the stewardess reassures him, “these were just as living as they were.”
    2. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 13: 41
      +2
      And how do you like cases with 12 or more RPG hits, the T72 tank continues to fight? When Syrian terrorists in an interview talk about what difficulties the destruction of these tanks brings. And in half the cases they cannot be destroyed. Flying away one case for 50 tanks, and naturally such photos and videos are distributed by our Western friends. In this case, one tank will be photographed from different angles and they say that 2 3 or 4 damaged T72. I saw at least one tank besides the T72, which was wounded and lined with torn off protection but which remained in service. Give me at least one photo of the abrams. It is unlikely that after the first hit they’ll leave the battle
  • Rustiger
    Rustiger 13 May 2013 12: 13
    0
    Somehow "scratched my ear" - "As for the Abrams and Leopards, these are good tanks, worthy of study and attention, but nothing more. The fact is that owning these combat vehicles is too expensive a pleasure. It is not within the scope of the Peruvian economy... T-90S delivery. in Peru, this is practically a settled issue. "
    I'd like to ask. Logically, is the T-90S "bad and cheap"? As Kitaisovsky disposable consumer goods, available only to "plebs"? Or is it a vaguely expressed thought, or something else? Very similar to "a subtle hint of fat circumstances."
    1. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 12: 34
      +1
      meaning that owning them is cheaper
      1. Rustiger
        Rustiger 13 May 2013 14: 01
        0
        Quote: Rustiger
        Fact is that own these war machines too expensive pleasure

        Quote: Slevinst
        I mean that own them cheaper

        Thank you so much for the invaluable, comprehensive answer !!! hi smile
        I guessed something like that! good You, having covered the issue in such detail, simply convinced me of a deeper study of "interlinear texts" and "search for hidden meaning" in articles! recourse
    2. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 12: 36
      +1
      less whimsical more reliable, and indeed the beast machine
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 12: 23
    -9
    I'd like to ask. Logically, is the T-90S "bad and cheap"?

    Well, this is objectively true. They cost less, are potential coffins for the crew, fun separate loading, lack of TIUS, automatic transmission, BOPs of large elongation, CORNERS, a weak engine, a French thermal imager, and much more.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 38
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      Well, and much more.

      Yes, for example, guided missiles, an unpretentious engine, significantly less mass, a smaller silhouette.
      Well, and much more.
      Have you ever seen the T72 / T90 in the field? He's there, like a mad butterfly, rushing around. Because of the grass, only the tower is visible!
      You still try it!
    2. Rustiger
      Rustiger 13 May 2013 13: 05
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      Well, this is objectively true.

      Yes, you are not Vladimir, but Voldemar! Grandson of Hauptmann Schulz, tank commander of the Pz-38 (t) Czech-made.

      Gib es zu, Herr Waldemar. Dies ist dein Großvater Panzerketten zermalmt Kinderwagen mit einem Kind im Jahr 1941 in Smolensk?
      Antwort, du Bestie. . . russischen matrosen!
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 12: 29
    -6
    Quote: ATATA
    Merkava. The same is hardly recognized.
    There are problems with Leopard in the internet, well, he practically never fought.

    Quote: ATATA
    Abrams, but hard to recognize.

    I don’t quite understand what is the point of posting photos of the Abramsov blown up on a land mine or knocked out by their own Mavericks, even considering that there are only a dozen of them? The fact that Merkava does not hold anything in the forehead is known and I do not argue.
    1. Babon
      Babon 13 May 2013 12: 34
      0
      Well, you wrote about the reputation? So they answered you. Somehow, the most modern western tanks are capable of turning into a pile of scrap metal. And how many of them were usually used? So many pictures. They would use more and there would be more pictures.
    2. ATATA
      ATATA 13 May 2013 12: 35
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      I don’t quite understand what is the point of posting photos of the Abramsov blown up on a land mine or knocked out by their own Mavericks, even considering that there are only a dozen of them? The fact that Merkava does not hold anything in the forehead is known and I do not argue.

      Well, Abrams is clear, this is good, T72 is bad, everything else is from the evil one.
      Point.
      You have reinforced concrete logic. It is not possible to argue with her; you are not interested in arguments.
      On the network, this is called trolling, well, you and your reputation here are appropriate.
    3. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 12: 38
      0
      Vladimir-89 in the head of your sawdust yes yes yes !!
    4. svp67
      svp67 13 May 2013 15: 01
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      I don’t quite understand what is the point of posting photos of the Abramsov blown up on a land mine or knocked out by their own Mavericks, even considering that there are only a dozen of them? The fact that Merkava does not hold anything in the forehead is known and I do not argue.


      The US military is shocked by the colossal losses that their armored forces in Iraq suffer. During the two years of the war, the army lost 80 Abrams tanks in Iraq.
      This is a truly shocking figure, the military says. The Abrams tank defense was developed during the Cold War in such a way as to withstand the most violent attacks of Soviet tanks, which at that time were considered the most modern. However, now the Iraqi partisans, armed with primitive bombs and old grenade launchers, are somehow breaking through the tank armor, writes The USA Today.
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 12: 46
    -8
    Well, Abrams is clear, this is good, T72 is bad, everything else is from the evil one.
    Point.

    Oh well. Then explain to me what was the point of the unparalleled "Carousel". That is why talented American designers, even on the ancient M-1, managed to separate the ammo from people with a thick partition, but the Soviet bunglers created an amazing system with ammo under the crew's ass, which shoots off the turret? Is this argument clear?
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 May 2013 12: 57
      0
      The difference in the tactics of using tank forces. The same can be said about the Soviet BMP.
    2. ATATA
      ATATA 13 May 2013 13: 01
      0
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      even on the ancient M-1, American designers managed to separate the BC from people by a thick partition, but did the Soviet scammers create an amazing system with a BC under the ass of the crew that shoots the turret? Is this argument clear?

      Fully isolated BC Abrams, this is the myth of the media managers, this tank.
      The main part of the ammunition for the gun (44 unitary shots out of 55) is located in the isolated compartment of the rear of the tower. The remaining shells are stored in an isolated compartment in the tank (8 pieces) and in an armored container on the turret in front of the loader (3 pieces).

      11 detonated shells inside the fighting compartment, this is enough for the entire crew.
      This argument is clear ???
    3. kot11180
      kot11180 13 May 2013 13: 44
      +2
      I recently read an article on the same site - when armor penetrates with modern ammunition, their armored effect is such that there is no difference in the ammunition load or not
    4. leon-iv
      leon-iv 13 May 2013 16: 17
      +1
      Mr. Nedotrol we change BPS on OFS and we watch flights of towers at NATO.
      Thinner must be thinner.
      And now the question is what is the difference between propellant and blasting.
      Then explain to me what was the point of the unparalleled "Carousel"

      and a Negro Joe will be able to ensure cyclic charging when moving on very rough terrain in the condition of radiation sickness.
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 13: 05
    -9
    Quote: Akim
    The same can be said about the Soviet BMP.

    Well, this is a different story: with tanks in the doors, MTO under the asses and BC under the nose. Soviet school, in short.
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 May 2013 13: 32
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      Well this is another story: with tanks in the doorway,

      You may have been taught the wrong way, but the stern tanks at the door are used only for the march. It’s like a tank’s hanging tanks. I won’t say anything about the trio (I just felt it outwardly). But the BMP-2 is a good machine for combined arms combat. The SLA needs to be better. The Americans in the exercises were surprised at how we hit. I’ll get a little off topic. The Austrians from Kalash could not get at all (there are no optics, so also a slit scope). BMP-1 of course great outdated.
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 13: 16
    -3
    Fully isolated BC Abrams, this is the myth of the media managers, this tank.

    Well, you can’t carry such nonsense. On the M-1 it was:



    11 detonated shells inside the fighting compartment, this is enough for the entire crew.
    This argument is clear ???

    No. What are you talking about?
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 13 May 2013 13: 25
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      No. What are you talking about?

      I understood!
      About such as You they say "At least pissed in the eyes, all the dew of God!"
    2. svp67
      svp67 13 May 2013 13: 38
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      On M-1 it was:



      Yes it was. You're right. Homosexualism deeply penetrated into Western society, and therefore their technology was taken with caution.
    3. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 14: 09
      +1
      But how will he do all these actions when the tank rushes along bumps? Or is the abrams designed only to stand buried and shoot back? if so then 100: 0 in favor of t72
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 13 May 2013 16: 13
        0
        Quote: Slevinst
        But how will he do all these actions when the tank rushes along bumps?
        But I’m also very interested in how to nurse these shells on the go?
        And so on the shells that are stored in the fighting compartment in armored boxes ...
        What does he open before each charge, and then closes it again?
        That's not clear.
  • avant-garde
    avant-garde 13 May 2013 13: 30
    0
    Having looked at him, the abrams and merkava hand in hand went down!
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 13 May 2013 13: 53
    -2
    Quote: Slevinst
    I saw at least one tank besides the T72, which was wounded and lined with torn off protection but which remained in service. Give me at least one photo of the abrams. It is unlikely that after the first hit they’ll leave the battle

    Well, hold on, once asked:


    Still bring?
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 May 2013 14: 06
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      Well, hold on, once asked:

      Small armor burn. No molten edges in the cumulative jet inlet. This means that the grenade hit the tank at a steep angle and most likely it was an old PG-7V, which is not lethal for a modern tank. Most likely, it burned through the screen and from around the corner "splashed" on the vehicle's armor.
    2. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 14: 11
      0
      it with a pistol TT broke? why don’t I see in the photo that the tank continues the battle, it’s more likely that the stray bullet hit and the tank was towed for repair, well, you
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 14: 15
      +1
      Look abrams nervously smokes on the sidelines
      1. Atrix
        Atrix 13 May 2013 15: 43
        -1
        Quote: Slevinst
        Look abrams nervously smokes on the sidelines

        Maybe the opposite?

        Or maybe so?

        Notice not one flashed like a box of matches. Maybe they will be damaged and written off, but the crew, I think, remained alive, and not burned out.
        1. Slevinst
          Slevinst 13 May 2013 15: 51
          0
          the selection can be made in any favor, you probably posted all the available videos where the T72 explodes, only the T72 fought many times more and media support is not in favor of our tank, I would look what would happen if the abrams were in place of the T72, but the T72 his junk and protection are worse than those of t90, and with all other things being equal, the benefits of t72 are more than abrams and mercans
          1. Atrix
            Atrix 13 May 2013 16: 52
            0
            Quote: Slevinst
            the selection can be made in any favor, you probably posted all the available videos where the T72 explodes, only the T72 fought many times more and media support is not in favor of our tank, I would look what would happen if the abrams were in place of the T72, but the T72 his junk and protection are worse than those of t90, and with all other things being equal, the benefits of t72 are more than abrams and mercans

            The video was posted in response to your video where you Golosnovno stated
            Look abrams nervously smokes on the sidelines
            Any tank can be knocked out !!! The question is, what are the crew's chances of survival in the event of a hit in the T90 and Abrams tank
            1. Slevinst
              Slevinst 13 May 2013 17: 00
              +2
              the question is how easy it can be knocked out, luck also plays where the shell hits, I do not beg the merits of the same abrams or merkava, but the old T72 is not as bad as you try to expose it, and your video is made just for that to belittle its merits and to praise the merits of abrams and merkava, it was made, if not custom-made, then definitely by the hater of the Soviet tank, the video that I showed it shows that after hitting the side of the tower, notice that the tank was not combat-ready in the forehead, plus there is an ammunition safe underfoot the crew in the place where there is the least chance of getting into the stern of the abrams tower is much easier to get and the tank without ammunition is a target on the tracks. T72 is more adapted to fighting not by the rules and this is a fact
    5. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 14: 17
      0
      In Syria, a bloody civil war continues. In battles, all parties to the conflict are actively using weapons and equipment of Russian production, including our tanks. They deserved excellent reviews in Syria. Also from the opponents of B. Assad - fighters of the Free Syrian Army (SSA). And this despite the mass of slop poured on the domestic armored vehicles by the former leaders of the native Ministry of Defense.
      In informal conversations, the FSA field commanders admit that Russian T-72 tanks equipped with dynamic protection cause them a lot of trouble. Sometimes they just don’t know how to deal with them. The T-72 withstands numerous hits from hand-held anti-tank grenade launchers (RPGs) and remains operational. Moreover, according to available information, recently, SSA fighters were even forced to subjected to special tests a Russian-made tank captured from the government army. They simply fired at him from an RPG. After 13 hits, the tank remained fully operational - the damage it received was not critical. And last year, one of the commanders of the rebel squad also complained about our tanks. According to him, during the battle on the Russian tank 15 shots were fired from an RPG, but it was never destroyed.
    6. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 14: 23
      0
      but from Iraq
  • elmir15
    elmir15 13 May 2013 14: 06
    +2
    The supply of the T-90S to Peru is almost a settled issue.

    Russia received a contract for 200 T-90S tanks.

    Why don't we buy our army? or are we waiting for armature? while they develop, until the state tests pass, not a little time will pass
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 13 May 2013 16: 15
      +1
      Quote: elmir15
      Why don't we buy our army? or are we waiting for armature? while they develop, until the state tests pass, not a little time will pass

      I think because the existing park is enough.
    2. leon-iv
      leon-iv 13 May 2013 16: 18
      0
      or are we waiting for armature?

      + Modernization of the T-72 from the 80s is unfortunately gone.
  • Ak 12
    Ak 12 13 May 2013 15: 57
    0
    Maybe the opposite?

    the first video is not complete when the missiles from RPG 29 hit the abrams, it broke out
    1. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 16: 03
      +4
      Yes, because the Cossack is mishandled, somewhere to turn somewhere, somewhere to exaggerate, and as a result, Khachik Vachikovich on his six accelerates to 360 km / h when no one is around and no one sees
  • lecturer
    lecturer 13 May 2013 16: 50
    0
    No matter how much reason ordinary readers read, BUT THIS IS AN EPILOGUE:
    Quote: Slevinst
    . And last year, one of the commanders of the rebel squad also complained about our tanks. According to him, during the battle on the Russian tank 15 shots were fired from an RPG, but it was never destroyed.
  • Red777
    Red777 13 May 2013 17: 51
    0
    When will the T90 already become our main tank? And then everyone buys, because we refuse ((
    1. Slevinst
      Slevinst 13 May 2013 17: 52
      0
      Given the proximity of Almaty, I think that never
  • Algor73
    Algor73 13 May 2013 18: 29
    +5
    "... from Ukraine and other European" rogue "..." I don't know, I can't believe what the Russian wrote. Maybe "attached" to Russia, but not a Russian. Ukraine may not be what some wanted to see, but it is not a "rogue". And tanks, and T-90, and T-84, and T-64E are more or less the same segment. Price and politics will play a role.
  • svp67
    svp67 13 May 2013 20: 07
    0
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: svp67
    "Bulat" shoots only "Combat", so there is no "Cobra" on it ...

    When Kuzmuk I did not see the "Kombats". I can still admit that they were shooting 9K119.


    And "Kombat" is the Ukrainianized 9M119 "Reflex"
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 May 2013 20: 27
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      "Kombat" is the Ukrainianized 9M119 "Reflex"

      He, in contrast to the "Reflex" has a slightly different control equipment, which allows him to shoot with excess.
  • Alexander D.
    Alexander D. 13 May 2013 21: 42
    +3
    The article was written not so much to raise patriotism among the citizens of the Russian Federation, but rather to pour mud and humiliate Ukrainian tank building ... I wonder why the moderator doesn’t remove articles posted on the site with the aim of inciting ethnic conflicts ?!
    And so, the article, like all others with the signature of A. Khlopotov, is about nothing.
  • Shaitan
    Shaitan 14 May 2013 00: 59
    0
    The supply of the T-90S to Peru is almost a settled issue.
    Until the supply contract is signed early to write like that!
    Let's keep our fingers crossed for Russian sellers!