Nazarbayev, the destroyer of the USSR, will never become a creator

The allegations that he is the “main integrator” of the post-Soviet space is a myth

It's a shame to admit it, but it seems that the realities of the Russian-Kazakh relations are becoming more and more confident in the picture that is unpleasant for Moscow: Kazakhstan is objectively more necessary for Russia than vice versa. After all, Russia is the locomotive of this “idea of ​​the century” - the Eurasian Union. Astana, on the other hand, supports this idea, as the analysis of recent events, obviously unfriendly to Moscow, shows, rather declaratively.

Indeed, if one observes the actions of the Kazakh authorities, one can only be amazed how this can be combined with the status of an economic and political ally, how a country that is a member of the Customs Union with Russia and is a “co-founder” of the Eurasian Union can do this. Meanwhile, official Astana requires Moscow to “pack suitcases” at Baikonur, clearly does not oppose the prospects of a referendum on secession from the Customs Union, which local nationalists dream of, does not overwhelm those who want to significantly limit the circulation of the Russian language and, finally, does not rule out switching from Cyrillic to Latin . All such initiatives and plans for the future are declared almost completely without any reservations on the position of Russia. The authorities of the republic at every opportunity seek to emphasize its exceptional sovereignty.

Without exaggeration, the mass exodus of Russians from this country can be considered a true indicator of negative anti-Russian tendencies in Kazakhstan’s domestic policy. You can even safely use, if not too politically correct, but in this case, just the correct verb "run." That's right: as soon as Moscow had declared the program of resettlement of compatriots - it was here that all the most interesting began. An amazing (then - for some, now - for many) truth has opened: the Russians in Kazakhstan seemed to be waiting for this opportunity. Statements to the Russian authorities with requests for citizenship were an avalanche. You do not need to be a medium to unravel the main essence of such a mass mood. Of course, there is a longing for the Motherland, although the request is also served in no small numbers by those Russian Kazakhstanis who have lived their entire adult life outside of Russia. But it is getting harder and harder to become Russian in Kazakhstan - and not at all because of the gnawing grief over the sources. Everything is more prosaic. Astana does not get tired of reminding them: “You are strangers”.

Such, you see, the “Eurasian Union” is looming.

Meanwhile, the mass exodus of Russians from Kazakhstan is fraught with danger for the entire project of the Eurasian Union. Yes, Vladimir Putin and Nursultan Nazarbayev can meet and solemnly sign as many pacts as necessary for mutual integration, but only how will they work in this situation and what will their price be? “The very discussion of the usefulness or risks of the outcome of Russians and Russian-speakers from anywhere means that the Russian state fixes for itself the meaninglessness and the impossibility of building a new large state - the Eurasian Union,” Alexander Sobyanin, head of the strategic planning service of the Association for Border Cooperation, told the REX news agency. . Well, how can you argue?

Of course, in world politics there have always been a lot of theater and theatrical conventions, but Vladimir Putin, in his speeches and articles, repeatedly reminded us all that the Eurasian Union is a serious project to which serious resources are attracted. So is it not insulting to be so ridiculous to say goodbye to a great idea?

In a conversation with a KM.RU columnist, senior researcher at the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies, political scientist Azhdar Kurtov revealed the initial motives of the unfriendly policy of official Astana against the backdrop of a declared readiness for Eurasian integration:

- From the very beginning of voicing the idea of ​​building the Eurasian Union, I had serious doubts that some of our partners would sincerely support it. Why such doubts have the right to exist? Because the destroyers can not be creators, as I believe. Those people who destroyed the USSR at the end of the 80 and the beginning of the 90 of the last century, hardly changed their views. After all, the main merit they ascribe to themselves is the creation of nation states, that is, the destruction of the Soviet Union. So can a person who destroyed, suddenly “overhang”, reconsider his views and act in the opposite direction? Most likely, this is still slyness, even if these people declare their intentions.

In addition, from my point of view, we still do not quite correctly assess the causes of the collapse of the Soviet Union. The main reason is in the selfishness of national elites, in their desire to have full power. Power, I remind you, then, during the transition from a planned economy to a market economy (with unlimited power), they provided extremely wide opportunities for enrichment. That is, they sought not just the possession of power, but the possession of just such a power that would allow them to control the mechanism of property distribution, its privatization in their own interests, in the interests of their family, the clan. And there are plenty of examples, including in Kazakhstan. Yes, under the Soviet regime there were also the first secretaries of the Communist Party, but their relatives did not have such fabulous states as the relatives of Nazarbayev now possess. But why on earth? This all happened not because of their exceptional intellectual or business abilities, but because of their kindred closeness to the first person of the state, who determined the policy of his country.

Why, even then, at the first wave of independence, did the first big wave of Russians leaving Kazakhstan leave? Because such was the policy of the Kazakh authorities, who did not want to share their power with politicians belonging to another ethnic group, with Russians, Tatars, and Ukrainians. They wanted monopolies and passed relevant laws: for example, a law on language, knowledge of which was necessary for applicants for landmark posts in the system of state administration. And so they squeezed the Russian population out of their republic. I am already silent about the fact that at the beginning of the 90-ies, the Kazakh authorities blocked in a discriminatory way the associations of various Russian organizations, in particular, the Cossack organizations, stopped attempts to consolidate forces that defended the development of relations between Kazakhstan and Russia. But already then the myth of Nazarbayev as the “main integrator” in the post-Soviet space was launched. But only by further actions of Nursultan Abishevich this was not confirmed in any way.

Comments

[Hleb]

After all, Russia is the locomotive of this “idea of ​​the century” - the Eurasian Union.

But what about the fact that Nazarbayev is the recognized initiator of the Eurasian Union? Wasn't he in the 94th put forward the idea of ​​Eurasian integration?

[Alexander]

1. Kazakhstan is the latest republic to secede from the USSR;
2. Kazakhstan is the last state to leave the ruble zone (Of course. Such inflation was in those days).

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

Yes, everything will be fine, of course, such things do not go painlessly, each of our three countries has its own strengths and weaknesses, everything will settle down with time, each will occupy its own niche!

[kuz363]

By the way, Kazakhstan also requested in the ruble zone. But Russia, in the person of Shokhin, put forward tough conditions - to transfer to Russia all the gold reserves, only Russia could print rubles and so on. That is, to turn Kazakhstan into an ordinary republic of Russia.

[Nick]

Quote: Gleb

But what about the fact that Nazarbayev is the recognized initiator of the Eurasian Union? Wasn't he in the 94th put forward the idea of ​​Eurasian integration?

Nazarbayev can hardly be called the destroyer of the USSR. As far as I remember, it was he who stood up for the preservation of the Union more persistently than all other republican leaders. The author is either "not in the subject" or disingenuous.

[Hleb]

interesting moment. here both the customs union and the Victory and a few more points are touched.
He who does not regret the collapse of the Soviet Union does not have a heart; he who wants to recreate it in its former form has no head

[Kolyan]

And so they won without Ukraine, since Ukraine was occupied!

[Reasonable, 2,3]

On Nazarbayev (no matter what he is), there is an information attack from the Pentagon. It is necessary to weigh. and immediately write comments.

[bnm bnmbm]

Victor Martynyuk campaign agent Ukrainian, or something. But what about the three Slavic presidents without Nazarbayev, having destroyed the Union with their signatures. Fire him, urgently, moreover.

[vladsolo56]

I was born and raised in Kazakhstan, and so during the collapse of the USSR, or rather immediately after, Nazarbayev many times officially approached Yeltsin to create a union, the Eurasian Union. And what is the answer? but nothing Yeltsin stubbornly did not notice these proposals, immediately closed the border, built border crossings. I remember we drove to Krasnoyarsk by car, on the Kazakh side there was a trailer and two border guards, most likely for the sake of formality, they asked where we were going and what we were carrying. On the Russian side there was already a terminal, armed guards 10 people, forced everyone to get out of the car arranged a check, we stood at this crossing for more than an hour. At the same time, Yeltsin persistently persuaded Ukraine, the feeling was that he was ready to kiss his ass, if only to return it. Surely when I sobered up after the Bialowieza agreements, I realized what I had done, it was a shame. That was the policy of Russia and Kazakhstan at that time. By the way, Kazakhstan last came out of the ruble zone, and rather did not go out, it was thrown out by Russia. Now, of course, you can be offended by Nazarbayev, but first you need to see who brought the relationship to such a point.

[Canep]

It is necessary to add here the immigration law of Russia according to which I had to live Russian for five years on the territory of Russia (for what? Without citizenship they won’t take normal work) then pass an exam in Russian (I don’t think there would be a problem). The program was shown on TV: the Russian family moved to Russia, his son was taken into the army in Chechnya, where he earned the star of the hero of Russia, came home, but they still do not give him citizenship. SHAME! They row into the army and do not give citizenship. It would be nice for Russia to think about its policy towards Kazakhstan, and indeed its citizens. Article minus - a one-sided view, Kazakhstan is not obliged to lick Russia's heels.

[Hleb]

and also add about the program for the resettlement of oralmans. What difference will it make if I return to Kazakhstan, my homeland, where I was born. and the "monogol" who has never lived there will return. And now they are already being broken off (I recently observed a funny picture.
they, at least initially, had legislative assistance in employment, exemption from military service in the manner prescribed by the legislation of the Republic of Kazakhstan, allocation of quotas for admission to secondary vocational and higher professional education organizations, provision of needy places in schools, kindergartens ... various benefits, provision housing, medical assistance, exemption from consular fees for issuing visas to enter the Republic, exemption from certain types of tax, travel and baggage to the place of residence, etc ...
what will I get? nothing ...

[Delink]

And add 50000 tenge lifting for the Aralmans.

[Hleb]

)) at the beginning of the house they provided free of charge, now they paid the mortgage payment on them

[Canep]

The Mongols often do not know either Kazakh or Russian, it is more likely that they will know Russian, in Mongolia he is taught in schools.

[Marek Rozny]

All Mongolian oralmans speak Kazakh as their mother tongue. Kazakhs in Mongolia live in the westernmost part of Mongolia, which is a Kazakh autonomy within Mongolia and is usually ruled by Kazakh governors. In Mongolia, the Mongols have created all the conditions for the Kazakhs to preserve their language and culture. In this regard, the Kazakhs and Kazakhstan have no claims to the Mongols. It is not uncommon for oralmans from Mongolia to not stand the nostalgia for Mongolia and come back. Mongols treat Kazakhs very well, and Kazakhs respect Mongols. It is the Russians who can mock the "brotherly Mongol people", but for the Kazakhs the Mongols are really related in cultural and historical values, the people, albeit of a different linguistic group and a different religion. And in general, Mongolia itself is our great Motherland. All our ancestors came from there. Some earlier, some later. All artifacts in Mongolia before the 13-14 centuries are exclusively Turkic. The last Kazakh ancestors came out from there together with Genghis Khan.
The Russian language in Mongolia has sharply narrowed its "living space". Russia itself is to blame for this, which frankly sent Mongolia three letters in the 90s, however Russia sent all its neighbors under Yeltsin, she had an affair with the West at that time. In addition, the Mongols, who for the most part knew Russian, sobered up after reading the comments of the Russians in any articles about Mongolia. Apart from stupid nationalism, bragging, mock phrases and insults, no Russian ever writes anything about Mongolia in the comments. Stylistics like a blueprint: "Ahaha, Mongolia launched a camel-carrying cruiser! Ukhaha, the black-asses sent their pianist to Europe for a violin competition))) In a laugh, a Mongol will see it at home for the first time and shrink from happiness" and stuff like that. Two years ago, there was one article by a Mongolian journalist, written by her in brilliant Russian, where she wrote about the disappointment of the Mongols in modern Russians, who have slipped into cave nationalism and illiteracy, and asked the Russians in her article not to mention Mongolia in Russian news at all. As if Mongolia no longer exists. Like, it is better to consider that we do not exist than to practice toilet wit in your comments. In short, the Mongols reasonably decided to turn their backs on the Russian, who already stands his ass towards them. And the Kremlin remembers Mongolia only when it wants to snatch some kind of a deposit there on the cheap. Doesn't roll already. The Mongols are already working in full with Japan, the USA, Britain. It never occurs to those to scoff and insult them. Mongolians learn English, not Russian. And Russians never get it that with their internet stupidity they will achieve that even the Bashkirs and Yakuts will follow the Mongolian example. Not like Central Asians or Caucasians. Then Russia will roll back to the borders of the Golden Ring. The Mongols in the most difficult times proved to be loyal allies for the Red Army in 1941-1945. And they do not understand the squeals of some in the style of "Russia has only two allies - the army and the navy!"

[DmitriRazumov]

Quote: Marek Rozny

All artifacts in Mongolia until the 13-14th centuries are exclusively Turkic. The last Kazakh ancestors left there along with Genghis Khan.

Please explain with what side the great Mughals became Turks.

Quote: Marek Rozny

Russia itself is to blame for this, which frankly sent Mongolia in three letters in the 90s, however Russia sent all its neighbors under Yeltsin, she had an affair with the West at that time.

Here I agree, EBN was the main destroyer of the USSR and was wildly afraid of its revival, fearing to be responsible for its own crimes.

Quote: Marek Rozny

In addition to stupid nationalism, bragging, ernistic phrases and insults, not a single Russian writes anything about Mongolia in the comments.

It seems to me that you attach too much importance to the Internet posts of some not quite educated people. State policy, thank God, is not based on the opinion of some not-so-literate users of the network. own complexes are implemented in a similar way.

Quote: Marek Rozny

The Mongols in the most difficult time were loyal allies for the Red Army in 1941-1945.

No one denies this.

Quote: Marek Rozny

squeals of some in the style of "Russia has only two allies - the army and the navy!"

Judging by Nazarbayev’s statements in Turkey and the position of the Kazakh government on Baikonur and on Russian policy, this is not far from the truth.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: DmitriRazumov

Judging by Nazarbayev’s statements in Turkey and the position of the Kazakh government on Baikonur and on policy towards Russians ...

1) Nazarbayev called Kazakhstan a tsarist colony. Was Soviet textbooks written differently in Soviet times? Those who taught the history of the Kazakh SSR should have remembered the formulations - "colonial policy of tsarism", "exploitation of the Kazakh people", etc. And this was written in the Soviet textbooks of the Ministry of Education! At the same time, the Kazakhs in no way belittle the merits of the Soviet regime. Neither Kazakh textbooks nor politicians say anything bad about the Russian people specifically. They talk about the tsarist policy and the excesses of the first decades of Bolshevism. In Russia, they talk about the Bolsheviks only in a positive way? Oh, is it?
2) The position of Kazakhstan in relation to Baikonur is as simple as five kopecks - either Russia WORKS there, or if it intends to launch all launches from the Russian cosmodrome, let it give away UNUSED cosmodrome objects so that the Kazakhs themselves conduct their space activities. Until Russia announced that it was planning to transfer all the starts to the territory of Russia, Kazakhstan did not scratch its ears regarding participation in Baikonur activities. And now our task is to prevent the death of the city of Baikonur, in which the Kazakhstanis live, and not just the employees of the Russian Space Agency. Nobody expels Russia from Baikonur! On the contrary, the Kazakh government beats a panic in connection with the plans of Roscosmos to leave there. No need to turn everything around. Kazakhs will not watch how a unique object created by the efforts of the entire Soviet people is rusting.

[Marek Rozny]

3) About the policy towards Russians - here on the site the Russians themselves living in KZ say - "There are no manifestations of nationalism in Kazakhstan!" There is some discomfort among some Russians associated with the fact that the Kazakh language is increasingly taking the place appropriate state language, can scold corruption and officials, who are most often Kazakhs, can scold Kazakhs for traditional Kazakh vices (craving for idle rest, lack of punctuality, bragging, etc.), but such that someone is infringed on nat. or a religious feature - there is no such thing. Not in the politics of the state, not in everyday life. Although it seems to some nationalism that Leninogorsk was renamed Ridder (in honor of the German-founder of the city) or that Pavlodar someone wanted to rename Kereka (in honor of the Russian founder of the city Koryakov). Yes, in Kazakhstan communist names were erased, replacing them with Kazakh ones. But how many objects have been renamed in Russia over the past 20 years - Leningrad, Kalinin, Kuibyshev, etc.? And how many Finnish, Turkic, German names have been erased in Russia for the entire 20th century? Thousands! Yes, Shevchenko was renamed to Aktau, Tselinograd to Akmola / Astana, Panfilov to Zharkent, but the area where Shevchenko stands was always called Aktau by the Kazakhs, Zharkent was always Zharkent, and Tselinograd before Khrushchev was called Akmola / Akmolinsky. In our country, even the city of Dzhambul received the historical name Taraz. Wow, what Kazakh nationalists are merciless, they did not spare even their beloved poet. And in Astana, "Kazakh nationalists" renamed Abai Street into Kubrin Street - in honor of the Russian pre-revolutionary leader of Akmolinsk. And there are also streets in honor of Radostovets, Yanushkevich, Potanin, Gumilyov and many other Slavs who are related to Kazakhstan and which Kazakhs are proud of without exaggeration. Why should our streets bear the names of communist leaders and others who most often had nothing to do with our history? We have enough of our own Russians who need to be immortalized. Are monuments to Pushkin, Sholokhov and Lermontov erected in Ukraine? And "Kazakh nationalists" in their cities regularly erect monuments to them instead of those to Lenin.

[Marek Rozny]

quote = DmitriRazumov] Please explain how side the great Mughals became Türks. [/ quote]
To do this, you need to understand the tribal system of the Turks and Mongols, then you will see that Genghis Khan was raised on the koshma not just by some "Mongols", but by specific clans that are an integral part of the Kazakh people, and not Mongol or Tatar. All genera that were in the 13th century are still alive and well. Wake up a drunken Kazakh or Mongol at night, he will tell you a story of a kind going back centuries. In some places it will misrepresent or embellish, but on the whole it is absolutely accurate, if we then compare it with medieval chronicles (Mongolian, Turkic, Chinese, Arab, Persian). Not a single representative of the Khalkha-Mongolian clan was on the white mat during the rise of Temirshin (Temujin - in Chinese transcription). All these clans are part of the modern Middle Zhuz of Kazakhs. And these pseudo-Khalkha-Mongols, for example, the Kazakhs-Naimans alone are more than all Mongols in Mongolia.
There were no Mongols in our steppes. In the Kazakh language, Tuev Hucha of Arabisms, Iranisms, and now words from Slavic, Germanic languages, but there is not a single Mongolism ... Yes, and in Russian, the Horde left exclusively Turkisms, not Mongolisms... The clan from which Genghis Khan comes is part of the Kazakhs, the clan of his mother is part of the Kazakhs. The Mongols do not have Chingizids, while the Kazakhs are a rather large part of society even in modern realities (although they are not involved in politics). Not a single Mongolian clan - Hoshiuts, Torgauts and other Khalkha - took part in the Western campaigns. Only those clans have been recorded that are the basis of modern Kazakhs - Naimans, Kereis, Zhalayyrs, Argyns, Kipchaks and others. In the mausoleum of Jochi-khan, all the rulers of the ulus clans left their imprints-tamgas. These are Kazakh tamgas, and not a single Mongolian one (each clan still has its own sign). Mongols in the 13th century lived in what is now China (Inner Mongolia District). And to this day there are more of them than in Mongolia itself. And the Turks lived in the now "Mongol" steppes. And all the artifacts that were unearthed there by Soviet and Mongolian archaeologists are exclusively Turkic, not Mongolian. The Khalkha settled in this land when the last Turkic clans (Naimans, Kereis, Zhalayyrs, Kiyats, etc.) emerged from there. The word Mongol is not a self-name for Khalkha. This is a national name that the Turks have always given to themselves during the construction of new empires. Literally and literally, this word "mynkol" (sounds with Kazakh sounds as "MNGOL") in Kazakh means "Thousand troops" ("count" - "hand" in the military terminology of the Turks means "army", for example, "count bashy "-" commander "," the one who controls the army ").

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: DmitriRazumov

It seems to me that you attach too much importance to the Internet posts of some not quite educated people.

this was enough for the Mongols to turn away. And in my opinion, here on the site every Kazakh has already written aloud about his disappointment with the Russians of Russia, because every day on this site alone, dozens of offensive posts are thrown out against Kazakhs and Kazakhstan, which simply fall under the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan. In the late 80s, only Solzhenitsyn's book, "How We Can Equip Russia," inspired the Russians with the idea that Kazakhstan illegally owns its lands, is still haunted. In the 90s, the Russian media, within the framework of the platform for populist statements during the elections, formed an image of Kazakhstan in which "Russians are being cut out." That is still often duplicated by some on the Internet.
Today, a huge role is played by ... the comments of anonymous users, which create "public opinion". If, in your opinion, I am exaggerating the importance of Internet comments, then what can be said about the Pentagon, which allocates billions of dollars for the information war on the Russian-speaking Internet in the person of "commentators". They don't even hide it!

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: DmitriRazumov

It seems to me that you attach too much importance to the Internet posts of some not quite educated people.

this was enough for the Mongols to turn away. And in my opinion, here on the site every Kazakh has already written aloud about his disappointment with the Russians of Russia, because every day on this site alone, dozens of offensive posts are thrown out against Kazakhs and Kazakhstan, which simply fall under the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan. In the late 80s, only Solzhenitsyn's book, "How We Can Equip Russia," inspired the Russians with the idea that Kazakhstan illegally owns its lands, is still haunted. In the 90s, the Russian media, within the framework of the platform for populist statements during the elections, formed an image of Kazakhstan in which "Russians are being cut out." That is still often duplicated by some on the Internet.
Today, a huge role is played by ... the comments of anonymous users, which create "public opinion". If, in your opinion, I am exaggerating the importance of Internet comments, then what can be said about the Pentagon, which allocates billions of dollars for the information war on the Russian-speaking Internet in the person of "commentators". They don't even hide it!

[DmitriRazumov]

Quote: Marek Rozny

To do this, you need to understand the tribal system of the Turks and Mongols, then you will see that Genghis Khan was raised on the koshma not just by some "Mongols", but by specific clans that are an integral part of the Kazakh people, and not Mongol or Tatar ...

“If you try to understand the essence of the reasons that push the Chinese and Kazakh historians to such kind of maneuvers in the process of beating the Mongols, it would seem, an indisputable ancestor, they are extremely clear. Kazakhstan, as a young state, has not filled the ideological niche in any way over the years of independence. Therefore, the figure of Genghis Khan is extremely important, for she can be "laid" in the foundation of the idea of ​​Eurasianism. "

Without going into details of the origin of the Turks and Mongols, Kotor. can be found on the Internet pages:
According to Nazarbayev and scholars, Kazakhs are Türks.
Mongols are not Turks.
Consequently, the Kazakhs are neither Mongols nor Genghisides.
By your own logic, you can consider, for example, Russian descendants of the Mongols and Genghisides, because the Mongols and numerous Turkic tribes raided Russia, assimilated in Russia, many Tatars (Turks) served the Russian princes, and some of them even became Russian tsars (Boris Godunov, Grand Duke of Tver Semion Bekbulatovich, etc.).
In my opinion, the Kazakhs do not need to look for a dubious relationship with the brutal barbarian who. famous only for organizing hordes of young steppe inhabitants in numerous swift and absolutely ruthless armies. The "Empire" created by him did not exist even 200 years, without leaving any inheritance: neither writing, nor original culture.
Kazakhs have something to be proud of without Genghis Khan. For example, achievements in economic development, feats during the Second World War, in contrast to the same Crimean Tatars or Chechens, they were not traitors to their homeland and fought on all fronts, showing exceptional courage and heroism.

[Marek Rozny]

One can, of course, argue about the origin of Genghis Khan himself, hundreds of spears among scientists and Internet commentators on the part of adherents of the "Mongol" and "Turkic" versions break every day. However, there are no special mysteries regarding the ethnic composition of the army and state apparatus of Genghis Khan - 80-90% of the Turks are of specific clans, most of which are now the basis of the Kazakh nation. Where can I go if my family voluntarily joined Genghis Khan (leaving the subordination of Khorezmshakhism) in 1210 (even before the start of the war with Khorezmshah Muhammad). Around the same time (a little later) my mother's clan joined Redbeard. The Türkic clans of the steppe people willingly and without compulsion joined the army of the then little-known Genghis Khan, who was raised on a koshma by representatives of four clans - Naiman, Kerey, Kiyat, Merkit. All these clans are now Kazakhs, and not Mongols, Tatars or Uzbeks. Moreover, the Naiman is generally the largest clan among the Kazakhs (the Kiyats and Merkits merged with other Kazakh clans, and the Kerei are still one of the largest clans among the Kazakhs).
Good or bad Genghis Khan - it does not matter for us. it наш. Bad or Good Horde - it doesn't matter, it's is our the state. Stalin did a lot of good and a lot of bad things, and the USSR was both good and bad for its citizens, but that’s all is our. And to renounce one’s own story is pointless. Moreover, unlike the USSR in the Horde, our ancestors generally played a major role in government and in the army.
And Genghisides are generally massively preserved only among the Kazakhs. Neither Kalmyks, Buryats, nor Mongols have them. In isolated cases, some Turkic peoples have them, and among the Kazakhs, Genghisides (direct, along the male line) still have a significant mass of people. Even in the Russian army, the Chingizid officers who served were Kazakhs - the intelligence officer Chokan Valikhanov (Shokan Ualihanov), General Gubaidulla Zhangirov, civil administration officials, etc.
How will a Kazakh perceive the "Mongol conquerors" if he himself is a direct descendant of these "Mongol wars"? In Soviet times, they tried to convince us that the ancestors of the Kazakhs allegedly fought against the "occupiers", but there was a discrepancy in the minds of the Kazakhs - "how is it? They fought with themselves?" Yes, some cities on the territory of Kazakhstan resisted Genghis Khan, but it must be borne in mind that these were garrisons subordinate to Khorezmshah Muhammad, who swore to faithfully serve the shah, and, by and large, the leaders of these garrisons themselves provoked a military conflict between Genghis Khan and Muhammad (head of Otrar Kaiyr Khan, events of 1218-1219). The red-bearded man only addressed Muhammad with a proposal for an equal military-political alliance, since the main population of both rulers consisted of the same Steppe Turks, which Genghis Khan insisted on, proving to Muhammad that by uniting, they would be able to rule the whole world. Genghis Khan, either before or after, as an equal, as an ally, has never addressed any other ruler for ethnic reasons.
This is a big topic of discussion, but we can’t refuse Genghis Khan and the Horde.
By the way, for the fact that the Argyns (my kind; the second largest in number among the Kazakhs) were among the first to voluntarily go to Genghis, the Argyns had the right to marry the Genghisides. And they got the best lands in the new territories (including the part of the Crimean lands where Argynsky Beylik was then located; the head of the Argyns there, Tugai Bey, was a military ally of Bogdan Khmelnitsky against the Poles).
The "Tatar-Mongol" horde was neither Tatar (I mean Kazan), nor Mongol. This Horde ("Ulug Ulus", more precisely) was created by the ancestors of the Kazakhs, Bashkirs, Nogays, Karakalpaks, Siberian Tatars (whose tribal composition is 100% the same as the tribal composition of the Kazakhs of the Middle Zhuz).

What the Horde left or left behind is a separate big topic.

[DmitriRazumov]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Nazarbayev called Kazakhstan a tsarist colony. Was Soviet textbooks written differently in Soviet times? Those who taught the history of the Kazakh SSR should have remembered the formulations - "colonial policy of tsarism", "exploitation of the Kazakh people", etc.

Nazarbayev: “After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them ”(http://inform.kz/rus/article/2502148: Kazinform, 12.10.2012/19.55/XNUMX. XNUMX)
Generally interesting, consider this pearl with t.z. allied relations of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan on the CSTO (military-political union) and the CU (economic union). One of the closest allies of the Russian Federation travels to the country - a member of NATO (the military bloc, which takes at least an unfriendly position with respect to the Russian Federation, and a maximum aggressive) and blames Russia there. It’s approximately as if Putin went to China and declared there that the Kazakhs are descendants of the Turkic tribes Kotor. often behaved unfriendly towards Russia-Russia, robbed and killed, led civilians into slavery, etc. Therefore, it would be necessary now for the Russian Federation and China to strengthen cooperation, recalling the old friendly ties between China and Russia, China and the USSR.
If this is a political maneuver, then some kind of painfully clumsy.

[Marek Rozny]

And why do Kazakhs not have the right to recall their own history? We were a colony of the Russian Empire. Partial colony in the Soviet Union (not in all respects, but still). The Kazakh language and culture were in the pen, there was no education in the Kazakh language (only school and only partially). Rituals were banned (even which were not religious). In industrial terms, Kazakhstan was an exclusively raw materials appendage of the Soviet economy. The standard of living in the Kazakh SSR among the 15 republics was one of the lowest.
What is wrong in his speech Nazarbayev? The Kazakhs are still experiencing the consequences of a commodity economy and total Russification, and they will definitely experience a couple of decades.
But! Remembering this, the Kazakhs do not in the least turn the events of the past into a "spoke in the wheel" in our relations. And even more so, we do not blame the Russian people or Russia for this, namely the tsarist and Bolshevik authorities. It is in Russia that they like to confuse these concepts, but in Kazakhstan these are different concepts - "Russian people" and "Soviet power". After all, Russia is also not silent about the repressions of the 30s, about the famine in the Volga region, about the soulless policy of tsarism, about the excesses of Soviet power in the early decades. So why don't Kazakhs have the right to talk about it? Moreover, no one throws a stone at the Russian people.

By the way, in Russia, historical steppes are already exhibited in a filthy light. Kazakhs are not particularly indignant, although they understand that we are talking about our direct ancestors. Well, they don’t get into the details of conversations between Slavic presidents either. Embrace of Russia with the Bulgarians or Serbs in our country is not called a betrayal in the direction of Kazakhstan. And in Russia, straightforward tantrum happens when the Turks talk about their kinship.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Marek Rozny

The Kazakh language and culture were in the pen, there was no education in the Kazakh language (only school and only partially)

I wonder why it is so impudent and shameless to lie? !!!

[Yarbay]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I wonder why it is so impudent and shameless to lie? !!!

Vladimir, who enrolled in higher education institutions in the republics in groups in their native language?
Those who knew that they couldn’t go anywhere further than their village and the ceiling on which moet was counted was agran on the collective farm !!
Let's be honest, a person who did not study in Russian had no prospects !!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

my opponent said that there was NO education in the Kazakh language, that the culture was in the pen, I argue that this is a blatant FALSE.

[Marek Rozny]

Vladimir, got tired of his fooling around. By 1991, the Soviet government did not bother to create a single faculty in the Kazakh language (except for some faculties of the ZhenPI (women's pedagogical institute), which trained teachers for aul schools). The number of secondary schools has been constantly decreasing (despite the quantitative growth of Kazakhs in non-percentage terms). You, a "refugee", should know that before Gorbachev's perestroika there was only ONE school in Alma-Ata with a population of 80 million with the Kazakh language of instruction. The second Kazakh school appeared in the late XNUMXs just before the collapse of the USSR.
In many "Russian" schools there was a banal shortage of teachers of the Kazakh language, in connection with which the number of lessons was either less than according to the curriculum, or was not taught at all (and in the villages, due to the lack of teachers, foreign languages ​​were not taught, although in the certificate then everyone was given "five").
The history of Kazakhstan consisted of a thin book the size of a notebook from which the student could learn little about the history of his own republic. In the textbook of the history of the USSR, in general, the history of Kazakhstan and Central Asia, 2-3 pages were allotted, and then they mostly described the horrors of the tsarist regime and nishtyaks from the Soviet government and the Russian people in particular.
No national holidays were allowed. Even Nauryz (a non-religious holiday) was banned. Although the Russians celebrated the Maslenitsa at the same time, they did not hesitate to show it on central television in the program "Play, accordion".
It was problematic to buy children's books in Kazakh (and indeed literature in Kazakh). The exception is the works of "ideologically" correct authors of the Writers' Union of Kazakhstan. Finding Jules Verne in Kazakh was a useless exercise. And even Kazakh fairy tales you could find most often in Russian.
The specialized vocabulary of the Kazakh language did not develop at all.

[Marek Rozny]

The entire Kazakh culture was reduced to aitys on the theme of the harvest and one dance "Kamazhay". Something similar to pop music appeared only in the 70s in the person of "Dos Mukasan". It was a fresh wind for the Kazakhs! And until 1991, except for them and Rymbaeva, practically no one was allowed to enter the normal stage (Dnishev, Tulegenova and Baglanova are opera singers, and Baglanova and Tulegenova generally began their activities in the 40-50s and were of little interest to young people).
In most cities of the Kazakh SSR there were no Kazakh theaters, but Russian theaters were everywhere. 99% of the streets were named in Russian or in honor of Russian + foreign communists. Moreover, in many cities there was not at least one "Kazakh" street. For example, in Rudny (Kostanay region) the first streets with Kazakh names appeared in the 2000s.
In a word, Vova, to say that the Kazakh SSR had education in the Kazakh language, the Kazakh culture "flourished" can only be a person who has no idea about it. And it was just people like you who spread rot on everything Kazakh in the bud, calling all this "nationalism", and therefore all Russian officials from the Kazakh SSR scrambled in 1991, since there was a snout in the fluff, and who had blood on their hands (especially for "1986 "). By the way, you also hid behind the armored personnel carriers against the Kazakhs in 86, by the way? Wow, how much hatred you have for Kazakhs for dirty pants in December of that year)))) You have a great track record of "fighting Kazakh nationalism";) And therefore NO ONE Kazakh on the site can’t say anything good about you. If you couldn’t even get respect from the Kazakhs here, then how did the Kazakhs contemptuously look at you when you got there?

[Marek Rozny]

Eka, you thought over Vovochka))))
1) There were separate groups. But: a) not at all faculties and not at all universities; b) a separate group and a faculty are not the same; c) the bulk of the textbooks were ... in Russian. The fact that separate "Kazakh" groups were introduced in the 70s is a formality for show. They were taught in Russian, because there was actually no specialized Kazakh literature. You, refugees, all the time expose this fact as the "inferiority" of the Kazakh language)))) Like, the Kazakhs do not have a scientific technical language, and now you are trying to prove that this is not so))))))) Logic zero, conscience too.
2) I lived in Orenburg - a stone's throw from Kazakhstan, if you have problems with geography. Secondly, unlike the "refugees" who abandoned their parents in Kazakhstan, we spent several months in Kazakhstan with our relatives, since our relatives live in all regions of Kazakhstan. Thirdly, unlike you, I am deeply involved in the history of my native country, therefore, in addition to my personal opinion, I can rely on evidence and documents, and not talk about "secret documents" like you do.
3) About books - my parents and I tried to buy ANY book for our age in Kazakh. But you are unlikely in your life trying to buy a book in the Kazakh language - so do not tryndi. And don’t worry - today there are much more children's books in Kazakh than in Soviet times.
4)

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

fill up unfinished

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

tinker

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

sheep aul

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

udot

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

moron

wow, how nature got out of you)))) as required to prove)))

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Marek Rozny

1) There were separate groups. But: a) not at all faculties and not at all universities; b) a separate group and a faculty are not the same thing;

Marek, you really are a ram, there could be a physics department in KazGU, chemical, biological, not Kazakh or Russian and these faculties had groups teaching in Kazakh and Russian, you can highlight my epithets in your address, you can minus it, but you really .
you forget that it’s not at the party meeting or political information, you are carrying out a blizzard without even understanding what you’re talking about, then you are comparing average real estate prices with real ones, then you are talking about some Kazakh faculties.
you didn’t have enough culture, so all your national dance costumes were developed and invented in Soviet times, call me at least one Kazakh composer of the 19th century, at least one writer with an international name

[Marek Rozny]

1) Faculties can be of different directions, but should have been Kazakh. These are not Kazakh groups that should have been (of which there actually weren’t any), but faculties and universities. You all understand, you just don’t want to recognize elementary things. And recognize that EDUCATION IN KAZAKH LANGUAGE WASN’T.
2) I have never sat at a party meeting. And I’m not even going to join NurOtan. Calm down, Vovochka.
3) About real estate - you sat in a puddle, but again raise this topic. Although I understand that this is an attempt to move away from the topic of education and culture in the Kazakh SSR))))
4) Thank you for the Kazakh clothes, and before the Soviet regime we went naked)))))))))) Or, probably, in Russian folk clothes) And about the dances - yes, you're right. Kazakhs did not dance much. We are not Uyghurs, we love to sing and fight, and dancing is not ours. Instead of our culture and customs, they slipped us dances uncharacteristic of our nation.
5) You do not understand Kazakh culture so much that you don’t know a single composer? Well, you generally ... Kurmangazy, Abay, Zhayau Musa, Dauletkerei, Asan Kaygy, etc. They wrote music for Kazakh instruments, and not for piano. But Bach and Mozart did not write music for kobyz, dombra and zhetygen. Each nation has its own tools.
And about writers with an international name - then I don't know your native Ukrainian writers with an international name))) Gogol does not count, they do not know him abroad (he was convinced himself several times), and he wrote not in Ukrainian) Oh, yes ... you're like "Russian"))) Sorry, I completely forgot that you gave up your Ukrainian roots.
6) You can continue to swear at me, I only have a smile from your abuse))) If a smart person offended me, I would be sincerely worried, and so ... What to take from a "professional fighter against Kazakh nationalism" since 1986 ?))) Just what medical help laughing

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I wonder why it is so impudent and shameless to lie? !!!

From the book of Kheifets M. R. Selected: in 3 vol.
T. 2: Journey from Dubrovlag to Ermak, 1979-1987. - 227 sec. : 6 l. silt
Head Why Ermak?
According to legend, the city is based on the place where the famous conqueror of Siberia, ataman Yermak, drowned in the Irtysh river when trying to escape from the enemies surrounding him. The Russians believe that he was pulled to the bottom by chain mail with silver eagles on his shoulders, donated by Yermak Ivan the Terrible. The Kazakh legend that I first heard in the city was this: Ermak raped a local girl and was sleeping, stabbed to death by the avenger - her father. But both of them agree that Yermak died somewhere here, and the Voskresenskaya marina arose, after the revolution renamed the district center Kaganovich, and under Khrushchev - the city of Yermak.
Then I remember I was struck that mainly Slavs live in it, and Kazakhs - and throughout Kazakhstan too - are a minority, and not too large (in my years - about a third of the population of the republic). It was impossible not to notice: all the bosses on whom my fate depended are not Kazakhs: head of the city party committee Malyshkin, head of the district committee - Sychuk. How did this happen?
Subsequently, he found out that when the republic was founded (in the 20 and 30 years, the process of its creation lasted in several stages), the Kazakhs made up the majority of the population. A lot of them died out during the era of famine associated with collectivization (a certain analogue of the Ukrainian "famine"), but even by the beginning of the war (1941), the Kazakhs still accounted for half the population of the republic. Where did today's “Twelve Languages” come from, pushing the Kazakhs to second roles?
Perhaps these are the descendants of the exiles? What scale was reached by the power of zechovy streams that the percentage of local Muslim, that is, traditionally large families, fell in the republic 2-3 times (in different years)! I had more than a million people in Kazakhstan with the so-called “settlers” in Kazakhstan ... And how many residents left the former Steplag (Solzhenitsyn was serving his sentence and exile in Kazakhstan, too. However, for the sake of objectivity I will add: before him - Dostoevsky).
Is it fair to call the Kazakh Republic Exile-Kazakh ?..
PSURL: http://www.sakharov-center.ru/asfcd/auth/auth_pages508d-2.html?Key=16345&page=10

9

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

in elderberry garden
you will also argue about the lack of national culture and art, the lack of education in Kazakh? !!!

[Duisenbay Bankankulov]

Vladimir can you remember 1986, when the hunchback appointed Kolbin to the post of first secretary of the CPSU of Kazakhstan, or is this also a myth ???

[DmitriRazumov]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Kazakhstan’s position with regard to Baikonur is as simple as five kopecks - either Russia WORKS there, or if it intends to launch all the launches from the Russian cosmodrome, let it give back the UNUSED

Too simple, to say the least. There is a good proverb: "Simplicity is worse than stealing." It should be recalled that Kazakhstan unilaterally privatized Baikonur in 1991, despite the persuasions of the Russian leadership and the command of the Aerospace Forces. After that, the property of the military units was plundered by the local population. At the request of the Republic of Kazakhstan, the Russian Federation leased the cosmodrome for 50 years, and the Aerospace Forces continued to work at the cosmodrome, saving property and equipment. remained after the privatization. If not for the Russian Federation, then the picture could be like in Ukraine, where Kravchuk declared an independent space power and privatized 3 NIPs and a training ground in Yevpatoria. Through will not continue. time the equipment turned into scrap metal, and the military personnel who took the oath to Ukraine were fired.
In December 2012, Astana’s launch plan from Baikonur outraged the Russian side. So, the number of starts of the Proton launch vehicle agreed by Kazakhstan was reduced from 14 to 12, there were other restrictions. The Russian Federation responded by announcing the possibility of terminating cooperation on all joint space projects. “Russia considers this decision as the desire of the Kazakh side to circumvent the terms of the Baikonur complex lease, namely the obligation“ not to directly or indirectly prevent the tenant from using the Baikonur complex for its intended purpose ”, follows from the document.
“In this situation, Russia will be forced to reconsider its position on the advisability of continuing bilateral cooperation on joint projects, including the Dnepr program, the Baiterek joint project, taking into account plans for its transfer to the Zenit launch vehicle and a number of others” - says the text of the note.
In Roskosmos dissatisfied with the actions of Kazakhstan. “The limitation in 2013 of the number of launches of spacecraft by Proton-M rockets will not allow fulfilling contractual obligations under five commercial programs, which in turn will lead to the termination of international contracts and the need to return customers up to $ 500 million,” the department explained.

[Marek Rozny]

1)

Quote: DmitriRazumov

Kazakhstan unilaterally privatized Baikonur in 1991

Sorry, but Russia "did not privatize BAM unilaterally"? What was left on whose territory was taken over by each country.
2) The property was not plundered by the local population, which did not have access to the property of military units, but by the officers and ensigns themselves, who then moved to Russia. Read the memoirs of those who served in those years at Baikonur (as well as at other sites, for example, Darial-U). There it is colorfully described how the servicemen of the Russian army robbed absolutely everything that reached out to hands. And this is written by Russian officers themselves. If something the local population could snatch during this chaos, then it’s only a trifle and only with the permission of the local Russian military command (most often the usual barter of those years is a shepherd to a military vodaru, officers to a shepherd of OZK or a color).
3) The rental of Baikonur was not needed ONLY by Kazakhstan. You might think then, Russia could safely do without this spaceport. Both parties urgently needed such a format of relations. Kazakhs themselves then would not have pulled Baikonur, because there was no money, no specialists, and Russia without Baikonur would simply cease to be a space power. And if Kazakhstan would not have lost anything from the death of Baikonur (then there were not even ordinary Kazakh residents there), then for Russia the loss of Baikonur would be a disaster on a national scale. So there is no need to be afraid of the Ukrainian example. FIG would be able to Russia in the 90s to build a new spaceport. In the meantime, it would have built, the space industry would have been ruined for sure.
4) The Kazakhs showed their leverage on Roscosmos only in December 2012, when it became finally clear that Roscosmos was going to dump from Baikonur (at the same time, essno, renting the unused Baikonur for 50 years). It was necessary to somehow sober up the Russian space officials, who set their sights on the "dog in the manger" policy. After all, it was not in December 2012 that Russia began to build a new cosmodrome, and it was not in December 2012 that Russia made the decision to transfer almost all launches from the new cosmodrome. Kazakhstan's actions are a response to Russia's actions. What is the use for Kazakhstan from the dead Baikonur (both the cosmodrome and the city, which is already inhabited by Kazakhstanis)?
5) With regard to the bogey statement about "revising" cooperation on the launch vehicle, the Kazakhs are already tired of demanding that Roscosmos fulfill its obligations. The rocket was supposed to fly in space for a long time, the money was paid to Roscosmos in full, as was stipulated in the contract ten years ago. But so far, no money, no rocket. And here we are still frightened by the fact that they will stop "cooperation"! Absolutely all space projects with Russia turned out to be a scam and a scam. The Accounts Committee of Kazakhstan is forced to admit that all the money of the Kazakhs went into the void, without bringing any benefit to the Kazakhs. And at the same time, Kazakhstan did not make hysteria, but suggested that only Russians take a more responsible approach to the following joint projects.

[kuz363]

“All Mongolian oralmans speak Kazakh as their native language.” What is meant by this? If they are just spoken, they know it. But can they read and write correctly in Kazakh? Very doubtful. I worked for an oil company and periodically we had production certifications. So I can say that many local Kazakhs, especially in rural areas, could not read and write in Kazakh, although they knew the everyday language. How to consider whether they were literate or not?

[Aliko]

These are Kazakhs, not Mongols, Oralmans know Kazakh better than some Kazakhs in Kazakhstan, according to the Bayan Ulgian aimak of Mongolia, only Kazakhs

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Gleb

but the homeland where I was born. and the "monogol" who has never lived there will return.

As for the program of resettlement of FATHERLANDS ("oralmans") to Kazakhstan, this is absolutely the right idea. The only problem is its execution. I think you would be delighted if a similar program was in the Russian Federation. So don't ..
Try looking at the return program from a different perspective.
Imagine, simulate the following situation: "You and your younger brother and sister ended up in an orphanage. After leaving the orphanage, you were able to find a good high-paying job, buy an apartment, start a normal family ..
So, you would leave your little brother and sister in the orphanage, knowing what kind of order there .. and how they live there .. Or would they, like a normal, responsible big brother, take them to him ??!
The answer, I think, is unambiguous ..
So Kazakhstan is doing what any normal state should do.

[Hleb]

So don’t ..

what? I can speak any language. It’s possible not to conspire. There would be a program in Russia, but I would not mind.
I’m Russian going and the ethnic Kazakh reception is different. Let there be brothers, but then there’s no need to talk about equality. There’s selection on a national basis. Kazakhstan doesn’t need people! Kazakhs are needed. To these oralmans from Mongolia, for example, local treat like natural mongols
where are the Kazakhs and Russian brothers forever, but somewhere not? What kind of Mongol is a brother, and the Russian who lived in the same country as the Kazakh is not?

[Alibekulu]

The logic is reinforced concrete
Now the Russians are moving from Kazakhstan to the Russian Federation. In Russia, a resettlement program has been adopted so I shout that:

selection on a national basis.

??
And at the expense of a national sign - they gave apartments, and now there is financial assistance - to returnees, who, due to historical reasons, ended up abroad.

Russian living in the same country as Kazakh?

I, a Kazakh, have lived my entire conscious life in Kazastan - I have not given and have not given anyone an apartment. I would not refuse. But, it never occurred to me to blame anyone for this ...

[Hleb]

was that the answer?
repeat again? selection is on the basis of a national sign. Russian will come to Russia and a person of a different nationality will arrive — there will be no difference, as in Kazakhstan.
and about what suits you, that the local population does not have water and villages, and the oralmans are building modern villages, so you can continue to remain silent. And now they are given. The truth was made to pay for them. Earlier there was a halava.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Gleb

repeat again? selection is on the basis of a national sign. Russian will come to Russia and a person of a different nationality will arrive — there will be no difference, as in Kazakhstan.

You tell this to Tajiks, Uzbeks and Kyrgyz ... otherwise they don’t know about it ..
By the way, do you know who in Rasee is called "churk" and "Chukmek" tea ?!

the local population has no water in villages and apartments

Auls ?! Do you have water and apartments in all villages ??
Our issue of water supply is being systematically solved .. apartments in the village (at least in our village it makes no sense, they will leave and will leave ..)

and the oralmans are building modern villages, so you can continue to be silent.

Why be silent ?! I will brag about this, including to the scattered people .. I am glad for them (compatriots) and proud that our state is doing this and has the opportunity to do so ..
What I can agree with you is that the mechanism for helping them is not well developed .. Often they, in connection with this, form dependent moods, which is not gut ..
In this, I fully agree with you
And on the situation with the Oralmans, you do not see the full picture .. accordingly, you are not drawing the very correct conclusions ..
Later, if interested, I’ll try to explain .. Now the Internet is stupid
Although in the example with the orphanage, I’m practically on my fingers - I explained everything ...

[Hleb]

You tell this to Tajiks, Uzbeks and Kyrgyz ... otherwise they don’t know about it

give examples when a Tajik or an Uzbek who has arrived and lives legally is infringed on something?

By the way, do you know who in Rasee is called "churk" and "Chukmek" tea ?!

I know. \\\\\\\ and in the same way they are called in Kakhakhstan.

Our issue with water supply is systematically resolved

I don’t need to hang out. I travel regularly and know the situation. No one needs a village. Tell someone who knows about Kazakhstan on the map.

Do you have water and apartments in all villages ??

what state are we talking about? don't change your shoes. there are topics about Russia and there we all talk about problems

Why be silent ?! I will brag about it, including to the scattered

don't need these scornful

scattered

in the eyes and I can call a mambet.
but about pride in the fact that the local people who hunchbacked for the country and do not have not only housing, but even water, unlike the visiting "Mongols", I will not say anything. I would say in my eyes. They will not understand here

[Alibekulu]

scattered

Quote: Gleb

in the eyes and I can call a mambet.

"Scatter my you scatter
From the Volga to the Yenisei"

Lyrics for Lyube

Write to Rastorguev ... take heart ...


The word "Scattered"invented, if I'm not mistaken, Boris Yeltsin. Yes, if that the XNUMXst President of Russia

Quote: Gleb

in the eyes and I can call a mambet.

This is all of you - it costs nothing to offend a person of a different nationality .. at the same time, you are sincerely outraged that I use an idiom that is widely used in modern Russian ...
By the way, you as a person living in Kazakhstan should know that Kazakhstan and Kazakhs are written a little differently .. Kazakhstan and Kazakhstan.. Some of the Kazakhs were indignant about this What can about the stress in the word will breed discussions ??
On other issues, unsubscribe later, now is not enough time ..

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alibekulu

Now the Russians are moving from Kazakhstan to the Russian Federation. In Russia, a resettlement program has been adopted so I shout that: selection is on a national basis.

[V. Ushakov]

Didn't give you an apartment? Do not worry - you will soon get - an apartment or even a house of an internally displaced person, whom you yourself - will expel. On a national basis ... It's like the distribution of posts in modern Kazakhstan. This is not a state where career growth is "based on nationality" - a banal eastern satrapy or a khanate. And the Russians are running away from there because of the futility of business and administrative growth and - because of the very possible physical repression from both individual "citizens" and the khanate as such. As clear as day. They will leave, you will recruit Turks and Chinese, who will devour you, over time, if, again, Russia does not stop.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Gleb

where are the Kazakhs and Russian brothers forever, but somewhere not? What kind of Mongol is a brother, and the Russian who lived in the same country as the Kazakh is not?

you, my friend, what are you worried about? that the Kazakhs did not want to pay material aid to the Russian, who draped from the KZ in the 90s, while slandering Kazakhstan and the Kazakhs (most often), whining in Russia about how he was "infringed" on, demanded the status of the Russian government "forced migrant", and now the same Vasya Pupkin knocks on the door of the consulate of Kazakhstan and shakes the rights on equal conditions for moving to Kazakhstan along with a Kazakh who ended up outside of Kazakhstan against his will ??? You either put on your panties, or take off the cross. Either you didn't have to get out of here, or come back without showing off and demanding a red carpet at the station.
And they don’t give out huts to local Kazakhstanis, which are Russian, that Kazakhs. Do not expose the situation that Kazakhs in the KZ are given gingerbread cookies, and Russians are given a shish with butter.

[Marek Rozny]

Germany is pulling the Germans, Israel is the Jews, Kazakhstan is collecting Kazakhs (every fourth Kazakh lives outside of Kazakhstan - as historically happened - mainly in Russia, Mongolia, China and Uzbekistan, plus Iran, Turkey, Kyrgyzstan).
In the 90s, Russians skedaddle from Kazakhstan. They didn’t leave, didn’t emigrate, but they didn’t leave, inducing panic and hysteria on themselves and on those who remained: "There will be a massacre here!" As a result, the Russian diaspora in Kazakhstan has become stronger financially and has already distinguished itself by its contribution to the construction of independent Kazakhstan as athletes, scientists, businessmen, politicians, etc., and the "refugees" did not give Russia anything. Not a single loud name in any field of activity. Generally. Then, willy-nilly, you start to think - either it was useless "foam" blown out of Kazakhstan, leaving only the best Russians in the KZ, or the border between our countries is magical and paralyzes all the energy of the person crossing
However, for those who want to return to the KZ for permanent residence, there is a nice thing - they do not need to have financial confirmation for each family member, as it should be for "leftist" immigrants. A person who is not an ethnic Kazakh, who was not born on the territory of KZ, did not live here - must have 10 thousand dollars in the bank account for each family member. Former Kazakhs can obtain Kazakh citizenship without these barriers. True, many are not given citizenship anyway, if it turns out that they foolishly took shape in Russia in the 90s as "refugees" or "forced migrants". The Russians are leaking this information to the Kazakhs, and ours are prescribing a "stop" for these "refugees" twice. Although you can get a residence permit. Annually about 20 thousand people move from Russia to Kazakhstan for permanent residence (according to Russia). The overwhelming majority are ex-Kazakhstanis. Plus, tens of thousands receive a residence permit, remaining formally citizens of Russia and not intending to change citizenship just in case.

ZY The aforementioned mechanism for supporting oralmans is temporarily turned off. The country needs to digest the oralmans who have arrived over these 20 years (a little less than a million people).

[Hleb]

forced everyone to get out of the car arranged a check, we stood at this passage for more than an hour

You have not stood for a long time and what bothers you in this? Believe me, I know how many drugs are transported across the border and how many Asians (Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kyrgyzs) cross the border, in transit through Kazakhstan.

[vladsolo56]

You somehow did not read the comment very carefully, I wrote that it was in 92-93. The union has just collapsed. and then no one was driving anywhere, and drugs are still being transported in tons, but for some reason, at the border, they are forced to dump all of the bags of ordinary passengers. In fairness, Kazakh border guards are now more amused by this.

[Hleb]

I don’t understand what changes the year? Do you not like that border control was carried out and is ongoing to ensure the country's security? Is there a constitution, there is a border policy, and if there was a post and border guards fulfilled their duties, this does not mean that they should not check you. it or not. I generally doubt that you could be inspected at 93, and even more so at 92 at some post
By the way, they don’t force everyone to dump it. More than that. They don’t even need to present things for inspection for no reason.

[vladsolo56]

My wife went there a month ago, my mother arrived three days ago, so they check and how. My wife was forced to dump the whole bag. But as I already wrote it was the Kazakh border guards. I never write what I don't know

[Hleb]

Well, I don’t know, maybe the regime depends on a specific post. Where there are already drug detection systems that do not require a shmona. But I noticed that after the adoption of the customs agreement they stopped shuffling without a trace. A visual inspection, drug dogs. A couple of weeks ago I went, so in general, except for passport and visa checks, there was nothing. even dogs. but I won’t be surprised if there are such cases somewhere

[Beck]

UNCLEAR???

Officials do not see refrigerations. The Kremlin and Astana are committed to building the EurAsEC. But similar articles about Kazakhstan periodically appear on the site. What someone really wants to completely separate the historical neighbors? What does someone really want the relationship between Russia and Kazakhstan to be like that of Russia with Ukraine? What does someone really want to pull the barbed wire along the entire border, and in the future to build a concrete wall? What does someone really want the Eurases not to take place?

Of course, no one will die and we will live separately, looking at each other with binoculars, through a neutral strip. HERE WHO DOES IT NEED? The main tone of the Russian press is benevolent to relations between Russia and Kazakhstan.

And here on the site, judging by the articles posted, they want to push both of them. And it turns out in some part. And they don’t think that living in good neighborliness is better. And do not think about their compatriots left out. If only to weld a weld.

Well, well, go on. Bad business is not tricky. Sow a grain of rejection seeds, and seedlings of thistles of INTERNATIONAL discord, so they will rise without leaving violent growth.

[Beck]

Quote: vladsolo56

You somehow didn’t read the comment very carefully, I wrote that it was in 92-93

I will tell my former fellow countryman not a joke, but a bike, which also happened in the mid 90s in Kazakhstan. Then, even in the Kazakh army, they were taken in the Soviet way, all without exception.

Was at a party. Opposite sat three women Slavic. We had a conversation.
One said that they were planning to move to their historical homeland, to Russia. Another clasped her hands.
- Klava you are a fool or something. Here you move. Your Sanka is 17 years old, so he will be taken to the army there and sent to Chechnya. You won’t get any tears. And here, here, it’s good. He took the money to the draft board and walk Sanya on all four sides.

I almost fell off my chair from laughter. Women then looked at me for a long time with resentment.

[Hleb]

by the way: the team of boxers "Astana Arlans" among the common people "Wolves" from Kazakhstan won the WSB-elite world cup among club teams. The Ukrainians won. Moreover, the Ukrainians included the Olympic champion A. Usik and two-time Olympic champion V. Lomachenko

[Marek Rozny]

come on you roll a barrel on our border guards. our frankly speaking on the drum that there is imported into Russia. they try to keep tight control only in a southerly direction.
and shmon in the Russian direction suit only well, very suspicious or who started to get out first. and it is not a secret for anyone that Russians can easily behave in a deliberately defiant manner, showing that he is a "white man", and a Kazakh officer of the border service or customs "mambet, who still grazed sheep yesterday." even here on the site every day these phrases appear. what can we say about the flow of thousands of Russians at the border. there is always one such boob.
you need to monitor your language and behavior, then the customs officer will not even look at you.

[andrejwz]

Quote: vladsolo56

Now, of course, you can be offended by Nazarbayev, but first you need to see who brought the relationship to such a point.

Yes, the creation of the Union is not a quick or easy thing. There are a lot of reasons for this and a lot of reasons for old grievances on both sides. It seems to me the theme "Everything is lost! Everything is lost!" pumped artificially. Throw an article, a transmission, a rumor - and let them squabble - you see, but society is not ready for integration, and, hell to them, not a union. Article "minus" - in terms of new information "0". Is it to maintain the appropriate degree?

[vladsolo56]

When Nazarbayev proposed the Union, everything would have been much simpler, there was a single economic, ruble, and territorial space. All that was required was to sign an agreement. Now, of course, a new generation of the political "elite" has grown up here and there, and now they are, in fact, a Union that cares.
I also remembered that Yeltsin was the first to pass a law to trade with the CIS countries at world prices, it was not just a blow, it was a vile and provocative blow.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: vladsolo56

Surely when I sobered up after the Bialowieza agreements, I realized what I had done, I was ashamed

smiled

Quote: vladsolo56

By the way, Kazakhstan last came out of the ruble zone, and probably didn’t come out; Russia threw it away

it is true that at that moment Kazakhstani money was already printed (you need to prepare the design of banknotes, agree with the appropriate printing house in England where you will not be put to print the next day)

Quote: vladsolo56

I remember we drove to Krasnoyarsk by car, on the Kazakh side there was a trailer and two border guards, most likely for the sake of formality, they asked where we were going and what we were carrying. On the Russian side there was already a terminal, armed border guards people 10

Have you tried to drive back? very interesting this business is communication with the Kazakh customs

[vladsolo56]

And we went, in a couple of weeks, and you know nothing new happened during that time.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

so I went and the difference at the customs in Domodedovo and Alma-Ata, I also saw more than once

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

it is true that at that moment Kazakhstani money was already printed (you need to prepare the design of banknotes, agree with the appropriate printing house in England where you will not be put to print the next day)

If this is so, but perhaps it was so, then BRAVO Nazarbayev .. BRAVO
I foresaw everything, I took everything into account, a few steps forward, and considering the most negative scenario .. Just like a real chess grandmaster
I wish everyone to have such foresight and insight - especially the leadership of our countries !!!!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

again, NO ONE will prepare this just in case, from here morality was planned in advance and statements about what were squeezed out were made to the public

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

again, NO ONE will prepare this just in case

Nda ..with Yeltsin, after all his tricks you must always be prepared for anything ...

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

from here morality everything was planned in advance

After drunk EBN and the company collapsed the USSR ... Nazarbayev must have formed MORAL - plan everything in advance .. even the most fantastic and hypothetical scenarios ..

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: vladsolo56

Surely when I sobered up after the Bialowieza agreements, I realized what I had done, I was ashamed

smiled

Quote: vladsolo56

By the way, Kazakhstan last came out of the ruble zone, and probably didn’t come out; Russia threw it away

it is true that at that moment Kazakhstani money was already printed (you need to prepare the design of banknotes, agree with the appropriate printing house in England where you will not be put to print the next day)

Quote: vladsolo56

I remember we drove to Krasnoyarsk by car, on the Kazakh side there was a trailer and two border guards, most likely for the sake of formality, they asked where we were going and what we were carrying. On the Russian side there was already a terminal, armed border guards people 10

Have you tried to drive back? very interesting this business is communication with the Kazakh customs

[Beck]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

it is true that at that moment Kazakhstani money was already printed (you need to prepare the design of banknotes, agree with the appropriate printing house in England where you will not be put to print the next day)

Do not lie.

When Moscow, led by Gaidar, kicked Kazakhstan out of the ruble zone, there were no designs of the Kazakh currency. Depreciated rubles went to Kazakhstan "in echelons". Then, for the first time, the Kazakh people started counting money (worthless salaries) for thousands and tens of thousands.

In order not to drown in this stream of paper, tenge printing was urgently ordered in London. And London printed these tenge on loan, since Kazakhstan did not have any currency to pay for the order.

Do not lie.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

and also banknotes 20, 50, 100, and also small tiynki and it's all "no designs"

DO NOT do the development overnight and put it into circulation. You can hardly imagine what it is.

[Beck]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

DO NOT do the development overnight and put it into circulation. You can hardly imagine what it is.

Do not juggle to justify your lies. When choked with wooden rubles, then urgent and designed the design of notes for printing them in London. AFTER that we were thrown out of the ruble zone. Not BEFORE you claim.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Beck

Do not distort your excuses

there are two opinions one of my three is not right
you and your comrades-in-arms are already getting ridiculous, at first you disprove my statements with the lack of design and the haste with which the first tenge was issued, as always after I gave documentary evidence of my point of view, you start to be rude and insult.
you are your "associates" become not interesting.

ps from the fact that you say halva a hundred times in your mouth it will not become sweeter, you can continue to claim that everything is wonderful and wonderful in the Republic of Kazakhstan, but neither national, nor social, nor economic problems will disappear from this

[Beck]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

there are two opinions one of my three is not right

There are two opinions. Yours and mine, but their interpretation is a matter of purely everyone.

Here is what you say you gave as an example banknotes. So I talk about them. Only you say that the design was done in advance, even before Kazakhstan was thrown out of the ruble zone. And that provokes people. Like, look, the Kazakhs planned to leave the zone themselves and kept the design in the stash. And I say that you are lying. There was no Prepared Design. Nobody knew that they would throw us out. Gaidar did it all of a sudden. And as the paper of Soviet rubles filled us up, only then the URGENT design was made and an order was made to print them.
NOBODY knew or suspected that we were thrown out of the ruble zone.

[Alexander]

Maybe I'm naive, but I want to ask. Do you want to return to the ruble zone?

[Beck]

Quote: Alexander

Maybe I'm naive, but I want to ask. Do you want to return to the ruble zone?

It seems even before Kazakhstan was thrown out of the ruble zone. Nazarbayev offered Yeltsin to make a common currency - Altyn. That in Russian and Kazakh languages ​​has its meaning.

If we build a strong EurAsEC, a common currency will be necessary and inevitable.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Beck

Like, look, the Kazakhs planned to leave the zone themselves and kept the design in the stash. And I say that you are lying. There was no Prepared Design

sorry for being rude, you are generally friends with the brain, you roughly imagine the timing of such work, develop, coordinate, think over protection, etc. you remind me of those sheep from mine images that gave 15 months to develop 4 textbooks.
urgently beck can only crawl out and then if diarrhea.
unlike you, I am somewhat versed in printing

[Beck]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

sorry for being rude, you are generally friends with the brain, you roughly imagine the timing of such work, develop, coordinate, think over protection, etc.

And why are you nervous, it breaks into hysteria that there are no arguments, and those that are beyond any criticism.

That's because they created these designs in a hurry, and then later replaced these designs, without hurry, with others. But protection, as there are world standards for this protection, did not have to invent anything new. Protecting it all the currencies of the developed world is about the same.

And the company in London was provided only with artistic design, and they did the defense and printing themselves, since they are a specialized company. And we do not have specialists in protection now.

And who argues about the presence of idiots in officials who are ready to write a new version of "Warriors and Peace" in 4 months.

And the last one. I see you getting nervous, the screech slips, probably the tick begins. So health will be shaken. From all I wish you to take soothing, listen to melodic, measured music, relax in silence. In order to subsequently write comments without hysteria.

Ours to you, with a brush.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

you don’t need arguments, they don’t do art design in 5 minutes on their knees, it doesn’t matter who developed the protection (it should be woven into the design of the bill in general) all the time, like printing, delivery and distribution across the territory of the Republic of Kazakhstan.

I say again, you can stand in an ostrich pose for as long as you like, nothing will change from this, I won’t work at factories, and parties today that are firmly in nationalist positions will not be struck by internationalism

[Marek Rozny]

Vova, don't mix cutlets and flies into one. First, they kicked us out of the ruble zone (although until the last moment Moscow gave hope for this), and then ours had to urgently think about entering their own money. Then when the Central Bank of Russia issued money with the inscription "Russia", when the financial system was finally torn between us. In Kazakhstan, by November 1993, they used rubles, but SOVIET, and not Russian, which in fact and legally were foreign money and they cost twice as much as Soviet rubles. Why did you turn on the fool, forget what and how it was in 1993? Have you forgotten that in the morning, at lunchtime and in the evening the prices for food went up, because the money supply grew daily at the expense of Soviet banknotes from Russia and other republics? Balabol you are a liar.

We have factories. Take it easy. There are more Kazakhstani goods than under Soviet rule. We have a program of industrialization deployed, although it is useless for you to talk about it. You have blinkers in your eyes and between the lines it is written: "Kazakhstan must come zh_pa, because I left there, and without me all these millions of Kazakhs are nothing!"
And the paradox is that the more "golden-armed" balabols left, the better the life of Kazakhstanis began. Even the streets are less muddy. But the more "Russian-speaking" people like you entered Russia, the worse the situation there is on the national level and the garbage on the streets. It is not Tajiks who mess with the water, but bawlers like you, "sufferers" for the Russian nation, "fighters" for the idea of ​​taking away a broom from an Uzbek janitor ... If anyone in Kazakhstan starts talking about how Kazakhs deserve to be janitors and that Kazakhs should occupy this niche, displacing guest workers - he will be considered an enemy of the nation or just a moron. In Russia, you are driving the Russians into the idea that the Russians should push out the foreigners (although practically all of them themselves cannot boast of 100% "Russianness") even at the cost of degradation of the professional qualities of the Russians in Russia. You are outspoken enemies of the Russian people! What else can you call your desire to give Russians a broom? The patriot of Russia is thinking about how to raise the Russians in the professional plan, and the "foam from Kazakhstan" (pseudo-strangled pseudo-Russian pseudo-refugees) calls on the Russians to lower themselves to the level of a laborer ... your friends-comrades yell about it simply because of some mental impairment. It is better to pull the Russian people up, not down.

Z.Y. There are no nationalist political parties in Kazakhstan, balabol.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Factories work for us. Take it easy. There are more Kazakhstan goods than during the Soviet era

Marik of your stupidity is not even surprised, we are not at the congress of Nurotan calm down.
can you list the large factories of light industry

[Marek Rozny]

You have already been repeatedly answered regarding specific plants. uselessly. after a short time you start asking again. search in google.

Z.Y. Legprom, by the way, was practically absent in Kazakhstan in Soviet times.

[treskoed]

The integration process is not a Russification process. Kazakhs have their own mentality, language, and customs. There are and will be disputes of economic entities. Disagreements on certain international issues are also acceptable. Someone likes something, someone doesn’t, but there is a union and we are together!

[V. Ushakov]

Yes. The union is "for now" and we are "for now" together. What will happen after - we do not know. And - if we pack our suitcases from Baikonur, then let them pack their suitcases from those twelve regions that were illegally transferred to Kazakhstan - Nikita. If this kind of crap continues, then it is necessary to tighten the pressure on this post-Soviet satrapy or to annex it by military means.

[Hleb]

those twelve regions that were illegally transferred to Kazakhstan - Nikita

tell us about these dark pages of history

[Canep]

Read the story, and also take an interest in what language the name BARNAUL, Altai is.

[Canep]

And Omsk got its name from the Om River. From Wikipedia:

The name "Om" according to one version comes from the Turkic word om - "quiet" [4]. The local name of the river in Baraba and Irtysh is the diminutive Omka. [5]

And ASTRAKHAN perhaps got its name from Aster Khan.

[Hleb]

yeah and Tomsk yes? come on Astrakhan, Orenburg, Beshtau, Saratov, Kazan, will we analyze the name of Khabarov?

[nemec55]

OMSK Special-Place-Links-Katarshnikov

[101]

So it began. They put shit on us, and let’s throw the Minus article as vicious, damn it. Or maybe they check us for lice?

[Nick]

Quote: V. Ushakov

Yes. The union is "for now" and we are "for now" together. What will happen after - we do not know.

Yes, everything does not last forever under the moon ... And according to astrophysicists, the moon is not forever ...

[Circle]

It was really difficult to draw the border in the 20th century, because for several centuries Russians and Kazakhs lived side by side. It was different in history, but in the end, in that historical period everything was so mixed up and grown togetherthat it was very difficult to understand. Each side has its own arguments. But how to cut what has long penetrated in both directions? But the main thing is different. That the peoples of both countries have long lived in peace and are used to trust each other. And used to not trust others, the same Chinese together. The little article is simply called upon to try to bite this centuries-old alliance that existed between ordinary people without any papers and contracts. And this attempt itself is quite awkward and ridiculous. The State Department is preparing them badly, badly.

[Hleb]

clearly does not oppose the prospects of a referendum on withdrawal from the Customs Union

It’s just ordinary people of Kazakhstan who talk about the minuses of the customs union. Because prices jumped sharply. For the same cars, housing for discontent. Earlier, people from the border regions of Russia specially went to Kazakhstan for things and products. Today, there is practically no difference in price. bind simple people it is with the customs union

[ia-ai00]

One might think that if Kazakhstan leaves the Customs Union, then prices will "jump" ...

[Rezun]

Unable to find the source, why?

[101]

Quote: Rezun

Unable to find the source, why?

Victor Martynyuk political observer of the Internet portal in Moscow Kakaga horseradish not understand Provocation guys

[smsk]

Quote: V. Ushakov

Yes. The union is "for now" and we are "for now" together. What will happen after - we do not know. And - if we pack our suitcases from Baikonur, then let them pack their suitcases from those twelve regions that were illegally transferred to Kazakhstan - Nikita. If this kind of crap continues, then it is necessary to tighten the pressure on this post-Soviet satrapy or to annex it by military means.

First you put things in order in your Russian regions, and then climb into another country, do you have so little of your land, or are these imperial ways? We’ll give the Kuriles to the Japanese, and we’ll take away eastern Kazakhstan, well, well

[V. Ushakov]

For some reason, you arrange yourself in such a way that the Russians have nothing to do there because of the complete hopelessness and because of the danger of living among you. However, you - for some reason, run to us, where there is "no order". We would have sat at our place, but they were putting things in order, but not arranging things. Otherwise, we'll sweep it away with a tattered broom, the time will come.

[ziqzaq]

Quote: V. Ushakov

However, you - for some reason, run to us, where there is "no order".

Nobody is running anywhere. Although rather the opposite, we have enough Russians at work who have come specifically to work. And mostly elderly people leave for Belarus. The article is provocative ....

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: ziqzaq

And mostly elderly people leave for Belarus

and in numbers can your statement be voiced?

[mr.rafael-r]

Vladimir, what are the numbers, what are YOU. This is not a khan’s business. .

[kuz363]

Listen, sweeper! Can you tear the navel? Digest first Crimea, Transnistria, Syria, Donbass, Abkhazia, South. Ossetia And it would be nice to restore order in Russia itself, before meddling on the side. If you think that the Russians in Kazakhstan will meet the liberators with bread and salt, as in the Crimea (although, apparently, they already repent), then you are greatly mistaken.

[Marek Rozny]

SMSK, that's why most of the included Russian nationalists, judging by their surnames, are not quite Russian?))) Ushakov is a Turkic surname, Vasilenko is Ukrainian, etc. The author of the article is also with a non-Russian surname (a Russified Ukrainian, apparently). The neophyte complex. I would also understand when the Ivanovs would wave the sword of nationalism, but usually the Zhirinovskys, Potkins and other "Russian-speaking" people are engaged in this gesheft.
I have never seen an ardent Natsik with the surname "Petrov" or "Sidorov" ... With the owners of these surnames - I have only wonderful associations, from classmates to business partners.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

went to x ...
I don’t like the surname, don’t read it, I’m already sickened, I have never presented a single evidence of my vysers, but a Pontus like a padishah.
it's you Russian-speaking ba no matter how Kazakh or crest, and I'm Russian

[Marek Rozny]

you are given tons of evidence for each point, but you have jitters and hysterics every time))))) drink a sedative, Little Johnny)))) or even so, these "Kazakh nationalists" broke your life)))) all Russians in Kazakhstan is different, but all the "refugees" - as a blueprint - neither write in Russian, nor think, nor argue, nor tell. And, as it turned out over these 20 years, they also do not know how to work. It seems that this is the whole hitch, why they were left out of work in Kazakhstan.

[kuz363]

You are a terry crest. And over to the Russians.

[nemec55]

I also don’t understand what to do with the Kazakhs’s stigma in the gun. We need to work with people and the country and not loot and shout And just shout (the country's leadership) that Russia is the most work so that in any country of the former Soviet Union and abroad, the inhabitants of Russia respected us and will talk about the fact that we are a great country, and it’s embarrassing to look into the eyes of embezzlers with thieves by embezzlers.

[nemec55]

But Nazarbayev has nothing to us or does not owe you, he works for the good of his country.

[Rezun]

I found the author, looked. Reluctance to say nothing ...

[pinecone]

Sliced ​​chunk. They are Turks and will be guided by Turkey. No wonder Nazarbay was erected a bronze monument in Ankara. With his departure, the pro-Turkish mood will intensify even more. It is unfortunate that after 1917. the Bolsheviks handed over to them the South Siberian, Caspian and Uual lands. Uralsk, Guryev, Pavlodar, Petropavlovsk, Semipalatinsk, Ust-Kamenogorsk ... Russian cities, towns and Cossack villages ... We need to gather our strength and defend what is left, or it will be too late.
Thanks to the author for a concise and sober assessment of the situation.

[RUS]

Let's return, we'll return everything, the beginning has been made - Abkhazia and South Ossetia (they are de facto independent de facto our "protectorate"), further Crimea, North Kazakhstan, eastern Ukraine.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: pinecone

They are Turks and will be guided by Turkey.

Why not to Yakutia and Tatarstan itself? Tatars and Yakuts are closer to us than Turks. We eat one horse meat. If the Kazakh "chunk" falls off, then it will pull other Turkic "chunks" along with it. Turn on your head. Ask the Tatar what he would prefer - to live in the same state with the Kazakhs or with the Russians, maybe there will be less aplomb.

Quote: pinecone

No wonder Nazarbay in Ankara erected a bronze monument.

In this case, Nazarbayev apparently also targets Moldova, Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan and Armenia, where the local people also erected monuments to him. And to what Russian politicians did the neighbors erect a monument during their lifetime? Do not want to think?

Quote: pinecone

With his departure, pro-Turkish sentiments will increase even more.

Wipe your finger, tie something out of it to suck.

Quote: pinecone

after 1917 the Bolsheviks handed over to them the South Siberian, Caspian and Uual lands. Uralsk, Guryev, Pavlodar, Petropavlovsk, Semipalatinsk, Ust-Kamenogorsk ... Russian cities, towns and Cossack villages ...

If you don’t know the history of Russia, where do you go to talk about the history of Kazakhstan? The fact that tsarism built military bases on the territory of Kazakhstan does not mean that this is "a primordially Russian land." And as a self-education, take the census of the population of the Russian Empire in the above-mentioned regions and see if there were at least some Russian settlers in the majority. As for the cities, they were filled with Russian people not under Tsar Gorokh and not even under Lenin, but only a few decades ago during the war (evacuated) and post-war "Komsomol construction projects" and virgin lands.

Quote: RUS

Let's return, we'll return everything, the beginning has been made - Abkhazia and South Ossetia (they are de facto independent de facto our "protectorate"), further Crimea, North Kazakhstan, eastern Ukraine.

You will be tired of swallowing steppe dust. There are tons of bones in the Kazakh steppe of such adherents. This is not Georgia or Poland. On the territory of Kazakhstan, not a single invader emerged victorious. Come to northern Kazakhstan to "conquer" me, I can drop the address in PM. Then you will come to the surgeon under the "protectorate" ...

[Duisenbay Bankankulov]

Well, you're right, you need 5 regions of Kazakhstan, which were transferred to the RSFSR after the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine. Can you recall a year ???

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

eu, then forgive me and return all of Kazakhstan to Russia as an autonomous republic

[vjatsergey]

As soon as we leave Baikonur, there will immediately be others - the USA or China.

[nemec55]

And how would you like. Damn, this person works for his country. Here, in my opinion, he realized that 20 years after the collapse of the USSR, the Russian authorities did nothing to improve relations. I lived in the KZ until the 95th and now I live 5 km from the border and I’m often there.

[Hleb]

and the United States and Kittai will benefit Kazakhstan? it is thanks to the United States that Musabaev and Aubakirov flew into space, right? that we had a single country and a period in history doesn’t mean much. and Kazakhstan should be indebted to Russia for a long time to come. from this it is impossible to put an equal sign between us and the Americans with the Chinese
(Do you live by chance in the Isilkul region?)

[nemec55]

Kazakhstan should, I don’t argue, but it doesn’t owe us the state identity should also be veteran apartments and a 5% mortgage and roads, an honest court, a salary, rural work, land for peasants.
In Odessa region

[Marek Rozny]

Russia or the Soviet government sent Musabaev and Aubakirov into space?
Russia or Soviet power ruined the Aral Sea and left us the poisoned land of nuclear testing grounds?
Russia or the Soviet government killed half of the Kazakhs in 1932-1933, taking away all the cattle as part of "collectivization"?
By 1937, did Russia or the Soviet government shoot the entire intellectual elite of the Kazakh nation?
And so on.

Many Russians deliberately juggle concepts, substituting definitions where necessary. Where are the pluses of the Soviet power, it is attributed to the "Russian people", and where the shoals of the Soviet power, the Russian kagbe has nothing to do with ... Do you want to cling to the achievement of Soviet power? Then be responsible for her mistakes and mistakes.

[knn54]

Destroyer of the USSR Nazarbayev will never become a creator.
So that's who the Union destroyed. And we EBN AND MSG (Kravchuk, Shushkevich) are spread rot, it turns out badly.
Not tired of the extreme look?
V. Ushakov: ... of the twelve regions that were illegally transferred to Kazakhstan ...
15 volosts of the Omsk district and Akmola, Atbasar, Kokchetav and Petropavlovsk districts of the Omsk province in 1921 were transferred to Kazakhstan (the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic). Kalinin, not Nikita.

[AleksUkr]

The President of Kazakhstan, N. Nazarbayev, was not present at the meeting in Viskuly, although on December 8 he was supposed to arrive in the forest, where he was expected until the evening and even postponed the signing of the Agreement. Nazarbayev really flew from Kazakhstan, but not to Minsk, but to Moscow. Official sources report that it was only a refueling of the aircraft, but so far this side remains the most mysterious in the history of those days: according to one version, Marshal Shaposhnikov prevented Nazarbayev from flying out, and the president of Kazakhstan was taken directly to the Kremlin to speak with Gorbachev ... In an interview for Komsomolskaya Pravda in the same 1991. the president of Kazakhstan said: “I still wouldn’t have my signature under the document, and if I had been there, at least I would have tried to convince the participants of the Minsk meeting to nevertheless hold consultations with all potential members of the Commonwealth of Independent States and only after that take some that decision. ” It remains unclear whether this decision was made by Nazarbayev on his own, or whether a conversation with Gorbachev took place.

[Beck]

Quote: AleksUkr

Marshal Shaposhnikov prevented Nazarbayev from flying out, and the president of Kazakhstan was taken to the Kremlin directly from the plane to speak with Gorbachev ...

I have another version.

From 1979 to 1984, Nazarbayev was secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan, not to be confused with the first secretary. In 80 years, Gorbachev was a member of the Politburo of the Central Committee.KPSS and he oversaw Kazakhstan. And in 1984, he nominated Nazarbayev to the post of Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Kaz.SSR. And in 1989, it was Gorbachev who ousted Kunaev and promoted Nazarbayev to the post of the First Ceretron of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan.

At the last XXI111 Congress of the CPSU in 1990 (July 2–13), when Gorbachev’s power was weakened, he might not even be re-elected to the General Secretary, Nazarbayev was one of his most active supporters.

Based on the foregoing, it can be assumed that Nazarbayev was not going to fly further into the forest. He flew and flew precisely to Moscow, to Gorbachev, with an explanation of the current situation.

[Duisenbay Bankankulov]

Beck, one small amendment made in 1986 to Kolbin, was appointed the first secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU of Kazakhstan, so the youth went to the Zheltoksan Square in December ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Duysenbai Sbankulov

First Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU of Kazakhstan

for starters, you’ll have to figure out what to write about, but Kolbin has never been appointed first secretary of the CPSU Central Committee

[Duisenbay Bankankulov]

Vladimir: It was the hunchback who appointed Kolbin, it was with him that the first color revolution in the USSR was. Google to help ....

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

for starters, you will learn to distinguish the CPSU from the CCP, and after that you will send me somewhere

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: knn54

15 volosts of the Omsk district and Akmola, Atbasar, Kokchetav and Petropavlovsk districts of the Omsk province in 1921 were transferred to Kazakhstan (the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic). Kalinin, not Nikita.

but nothing that this is the land on which the Kazakhs and their ancestors lived their entire history, when the Russians still lived in Kievan Rus? Take the census in Tsarist times and see how many Russians lived there until 1900 - with a gulkin nose. Yes, and those - the military (soldiers and visiting Cossacks), the officials of the tsarist administration (paramilitary) and in some places the schismatics who had fled from Nikon’s reforms at one time. Only in the 90s of the 19th century did mass Russian colonists-Stolypinites appear.
By the way, any Kazakh will not only say that the districts mentioned are exactly Kazakh, he will also say what kind of Kazakhs live there - Argyns. My subgenus Argyn-Karauyl lived in the Zerendinsky volost of the Kokchetav district. There were no Russians at all. This was the most gorgeous place in the entire Omsk province! And still this place is the best in the Akmola region, and Omsk will confirm this. And at the beginning of the 20th century, my family was expelled from there, having taken the land for immigrants from Russia and Ukraine, and my family was driven out to the most uncomfortable part of the region, where it still lives. Since the beginning of the 20th century, there have been only Russian villages in Zerenda. And now you expose them as indigenous Russian lands. Well, there were no Russians here. There are many Russians now (and let them live), but the Omsk province and others have never been the original Russian lands. All this land is in Kazakh mounds, and Russian cemeteries appeared only at the end of the 19th century.
And they didn’t mention that not only Omsk was transferred to Russia in the 20th century, but also Orenburg with the region? This is absolutely Kazakh (and Tatar-Bashkir in the north of the region) territory. Kazakhs living in Russia do not move en masse to Kazakhstan because they live on their historical land. They are not diasporas, they are indigenous inhabitants Orenburg, Astrakhan, Volgograd, Omsk, Kurgan regions and Altai Territory. These regions received a "Russian look" a hundred years ago, and even less in some places. The colonization of Kazakh Astrakhan, for example, began only in the 18th century, and even then it was populated not by Russians, but by Germans. The whole Russianness of Astrakhan was expressed in the presence of Russian troops (Cossacks, for example) and visiting Russian merchants (represented by the Kazan Tatars). Russian peasants were not born here until Stolypin decided to transfer yesterday's serfs to Siberia and Kazakhstan.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: knn54

15 volosts of the Omsk district and Akmola, Atbasar, Kokchetav and Petropavlovsk districts of the Omsk province in 1921 were transferred to Kazakhstan (the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic). Kalinin, not Nikita.

but nothing that this is the land on which the Kazakhs and their ancestors lived their entire history, when the Russians still lived in Kievan Rus? Take the census in Tsarist times and see how many Russians lived there until 1900 - with a gulkin nose. Yes, and those - the military (soldiers and visiting Cossacks), the officials of the tsarist administration (paramilitary) and in some places the schismatics who had fled from Nikon’s reforms at one time. Only in the 90s of the 19th century did mass Russian colonists-Stolypinites appear.
By the way, any Kazakh will not only say that the districts mentioned are exactly Kazakh, he will also say what kind of Kazakhs live there - Argyns. My subgenus Argyn-Karauyl lived in the Zerendinsky volost of the Kokchetav district. There were no Russians at all. This was the most gorgeous place in the entire Omsk province! And still this place is the best in the Akmola region, and Omsk will confirm this. And at the beginning of the 20th century, my family was expelled from there, having taken the land for immigrants from Russia and Ukraine, and my family was driven out to the most uncomfortable part of the region, where it still lives. Since the beginning of the 20th century, there have been only Russian villages in Zerenda. And now you expose them as indigenous Russian lands. Well, there were no Russians here. There are many Russians now (and let them live), but the Omsk province and others have never been the original Russian lands. All this land is in Kazakh mounds, and Russian cemeteries appeared only at the end of the 19th century.
And they didn’t mention that not only Omsk was transferred to Russia in the 20th century, but also Orenburg with the region? This is absolutely Kazakh (and Tatar-Bashkir in the north of the region) territory. Kazakhs living in Russia do not move en masse to Kazakhstan because they live on their historical land. They are not diasporas, they are indigenous inhabitants Orenburg, Astrakhan, Volgograd, Omsk, Kurgan regions and Altai Territory. These regions received a "Russian look" a hundred years ago, and even less in some places. The colonization of Kazakh Astrakhan, for example, began only in the 18th century, and even then it was populated not by Russians, but by Germans. The whole Russianness of Astrakhan was expressed in the presence of Russian troops (Cossacks, for example) and visiting Russian merchants (represented by the Kazan Tatars). Russian peasants were not born here until Stolypin decided to transfer yesterday's serfs to Siberia and Kazakhstan.

[heavy tank]

Posted by Victor Martynyuk! if you want to write some sort of political conclusions from the beginning, you must be able to analyze what happened in the whole country and in the world order. Without sufficient knowledge, a good article is unlikely to be obtained. As for Nazarbayev, there is and always has been between the leaders of Russia, there will be a warm attitude. so it should be. After the collapse of the USSR, Kazakhstan and Russia, Belarus remained faithful to each other as allies. Read the story from the beginning, then write a normal article.

[Duisenbay Bankankulov]

Why would he know the story ??? After all, the custom article is immediately visible, the paints are thick, and the goal is one provocation ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Duysenbai Sbankulov

Why would he know the story ???

tell yourself this first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan

[arcgrz]

in our army, of all Asians, Kazakhs were the most adequate .. you could always find a common language .. and they all knew Russian, unlike chocks .. but still I think you need to live in your own countries .. work wherever you want .. and then home though. and inspired by this article, we also need to give firm confidence to the Tajiks of the Kyrgyz and so on. ..that they will have to leave Russia .. this is not their homeland. and so work for now.

[QWERTY]

They used to know the Russian language. I have parents in Dzhambul, I visit there periodically. You go on the bus - not a single Slavic face. They go from villages to the city to live - and they don’t know Russian at all. I was still studying at school in 1999, there were classmates such. In general, why take a steam bath, all non-Kazakhs will dump them from there - and slowly the country will return to yurts. The truth is beautiful, the sea comes from oil and gas.

[Marek Rozny]

as is typical for "refugees" from Kazakhstan: themselves to Russia, old people on the necks of Kazakhs. you, yutsuken, do not be afraid, we will feed your parents. already accustomed to such "refugees". it is not in Russian and not in Kazakh. You still cannot feed yourself in Russia, and even take responsibility for the elderly - it's hard for the "freedom-loving" patriots of Russia ...

[aszzz888]

[i] [/ i] But only with further actions of Nursultan Abishevich this was not confirmed in any way. [i] [

As it is smeared, no facts. What "next steps", when, in relation to whom?
Raw article, and smacks of it ...

[stranik72]

The article is so-so, well, first of all, Nazarbayev was unambiguously in favor of the preservation of the USSR, this is a fact and he cannot be doubted, even because of this he was not invited to the Belovezhsky conspiracy. Second, Nazarbayev began talking about integration immediately after the "dissolution" of the USSR. But what about the creator, what he is doing in Kazakhstan and has already done during this time, we in Russia never dreamed of. About the attitude towards Russians, yes there is an ambiguous, bosses in any business are only local, in principle, for the self-realization of Russians, Kazakhstan is not very promising, as well as Tatarstan.

[Hleb]

he says now that Kazakhstan was occupied by Russia, right? and is for the Kazakhs a man who brought them independence. And what Russia did not dream of? What did he do?

[nemec55]

Dear Gleb, you probably all the same understand that this is a PR move, perhaps the cunning Kazakh needs from the Turks and Russia and is blackmailing this. I think it’s normal, but there will be Amer bases there or Ritya et still grandma with a pitchfork in the coffee grounds.

[Hleb]

I also wrote here on this statement, but you must admit that such statements in the person of the president are unacceptable to Russia (not to anyone). This seems more like a lie.
but in general, if it were not for the collapse of the union, then in life would not have thrown such beauty

[nemec55]

Yes, the photos are cool balm for the soul. We in the Kyzyltu district are not the same beauty.

[Hleb]

but Ishim you don’t have? but there is probably such a landscape

Oh saw. You have enough ponds!

[nemec55]

We have 7 ponds around the state farm Bidayikskom carp from 2 to 15 kg in childhood he caught 7 kg a little heart did not go. He honestly did not see such a landscape But in Russia it is full

[Beck]

Quote: Gleb

but there is probably such a landscape

Is that a hint of drugs? Is she hemp? Such a thick hint, even in the pants does not fit. Take more green flies on the dunghill and give it with a hint that only in Kazakhstan there is dung and flies.

I will give a little explanation so that people know that not all thick hints are true. Since, to some extent, my work was related to the fight against drug addiction.

Hemp - Cánnabis. You will find botanical data in encyclopedias. Hemp in Russia was mainly used to produce fiber going to hemp, paper, tissue and to obtain hemp seed oil. Russian, European hemp does not have a narcotic effect. And hemp is essentially a weed, it grows by itself in any places without care. It’s worth it just to get her out of the site of great labor. And in Kazakhstan, throughout the territory, wild hemp is spread, without narcotic action, with the exception of one place. And it grows where ordinary grass does not grow.

Only Indian and Manchu types of hemp have a narcotic effect. They were originally introduced into the Criminal Code.

In the mid-30s, nonsense struck the heads of the leadership of the USSR. A decree on the comprehensive development of hemp breeding was issued, and its cultivation in household plots was encouraged. Since hemp is weed by nature and needs to be taken care of, it was decided to plant large areas of hemp in the Chui Valley of Kazakhstan. And planted in rows. Two rows of women especially, one row of men. In anticipation of hempseed oil, such shanty sheds were built in the valley of oil-producing factories. Crops were good, oil of excellent quality. But in five to ten years, the natural happened. Either Russian hemp was reborn from crossing with local hemp, or else that. But Chui hemp began to possess a narcotic property. During the war, there was no time for hemp. And after the war, hemp crops in the Chuy valley stopped, because it became a drug.

Then for decades they tried to destroy it, but everything was useless. Even in the 80 years, if you look closely, it was clear that obscure rows go into the distance. Addicts learned about the new narcotic Klondike from the beginning of the 60s and drove there in gangs. They used Chuy valley for decades. Then, in the Criminal Code, Chuiskaya was added to Indian and Manchu cannabis. The fight against drug addicts, before perestroika, was conducted after the sleeves, as the official ideology claimed that there was no drug addiction in the USSR.

Attempts by drug addicts to sow Chuy cannabis in other places were not crowned with success. Since the narcotic crop such re-crops were given only in the first year or two. Then hemp is reborn and becomes non-narcotic. Therefore, continuing to take risks, messengers go to the drug-addicted "promised land".

[Hleb]

Such a thick hint, even in the pants does not fit. Take more green flies on the dunghill and give it with a hint that only in Kazakhstan there is dung and flies.

don’t drive in. do you write chtoli yourself in a log? there were no hints. there was humor and normal communication with normal people. did you attend a lecture. do you think that anyone knows?

my work was connected with the fight against drug addiction.

By the way, I probably should know when and where the largest consignment of anasha of the history of Kazakhstan was seized?

[Beck]

Quote: Gleb

don’t drive in. do you write chtoli yourself in a log? there were no hints. there was humor and normal communication with normal people. did you attend a lecture. do you think that anyone knows?

So your humor did not understand. Here is the specifics of communication on the site, and for a week what article with a bias atu Kazakhstan. And about Chuya hemp, it is precisely few who know how it became a drug.

[Andrey KZ]

Well, here we are, picking mushrooms!

[Andrey KZ]

We love the mountains and respect fishing!

[Andrey KZ]

Here we are in the mountains

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Gleb

he now says that Kazakhstan was occupied by Russia, right?

do not misinterpret. Nazarbayev mentioned that during tsarist times we were a colony of Russia. Where is he wrong, if even in Soviet times the tsarist policy in our textbooks was called colonial and exploitative? Even before 1917, tsarism actively used the concepts of "colony", "colonists", "natives" when speaking of Turkestan. Rewrite all the pre-revolutionary materials on Turkestan and Soviet textbooks, then phrases about "colonial policy" will not be an eyesore.

Nazarbayev really gave us real independence. Not the fact, I mean, that the leaders of the Slavic republics destroyed the USSR, but the fact that Nazarbayev was able to build a normal state in which people work and live peacefully. We do not organize civil wars, we do not go abroad for a piece of bread, we have confidence in the future and further development of the republic. Simply put, the state has taken place. And this despite the fact that there were an order of magnitude more difficulties than the neighbors - starting with the fact that the titular nation was not an overwhelming majority, that there was no processing industry, that there was no officer corps for the armed forces, there was no treasury, and so on. All of us here is collapse, collapse and internecine war. Che hide something? Russian newspapers of the early 90s frankly wrote that Kazakhstan was not viable and that Kazakhs and others were about to crawl on their knees ... Do you remember the newspapers? Yes, even our Russian-speaking Kazakh media wrote such crap that they wanted to get into the noose, only Giller's "Caravan" was worth what, which every Friday told the country that "we - zh_pa".

[Canep]

In order to have prospects in the civil service, you need to know the Kazakh, the Russians are really tense here. Although the last two ministers for emergency are not Kazakhs. But in fact, to have prospects for the state. service can be a Papuan, but you need to be in the edging at the top.

[Egoza]

Quote: Canep

In order to have prospects in the civil service, you need to know the Kazakh, the Russians are really tense here.

Actually, this is correct. You live with the people, you work in the civil service, you need to know the language of the people. This is respect for the people, for the country where you live, and facilitates communication with the population. And most importantly, he closes his mouth to all those who declare that "the Russians are behaving arrogantly, they don't even want to learn the language, they put themselves above the Kazakhs ..." the invaders, in a word.
Nazarbayeva has always respected and this article looks strange. However, one must judge by deeds, not by words. Sometimes they say one thing in politics, but do it their own way. So time will tell.

[vladsolo56]

As for the language, I can say. I don’t know how it is now, but when my son was in school they taught the Kazakh language from the first grade, so even the children from Kazakh families, where he is constantly spoken, did not really know it. There were no teachers, and the program was so-so. In Ust-Kamenogorsk, where we lived, the number of Kazakhs was no more than 10%. Because everywhere in communication was Russian. So how many do not teach, if there is no daily communication, there will be no sense. And it is not the fault of the Russians that they do not know the state language. By the way, in different regions of Kazakhstan, the language was not exactly the same. And modern Kazakh, this is not the one they spoke many years ago.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Kazakhs in the Kazakh SSR accounted for 18% as you come up with what language they will speak in such a republic

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Kazakhs in the Kazakh SSR accounted for 18% as you come up with what language they will speak in such a republic

Is this your census year data, Little Johnny? already lifted up his endless lies and distortion.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I have these data from the Central Control Commission, they have never been officially announced, since they questioned the expediency of the republic itself

not only drink tea with the generals

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I have these data from the Central Control Commission, officially they have never been announced

this is called frank pzdzh.
if such stunning figures existed, then the Kazakhs would definitely use them for propaganda purposes under different sauces. but there is no such figure and never was, even after the famine of the 30s. not a single notorious Kazakh nationalist speculating on the topic of "Russian occupation" would think of lying to such numbers. so once again you got caught on gibberish. I will not be surprised that in childhood you were beaten in the yard by Kazakh boys. that's why you hate the Kazakhs.
where you snooze there are psychologists? how much their services cost, write to me, maybe I will pay you. and you will benefit, and the Kazakhs will no longer have to fend off your writings.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Kazakhs in the Kazakh SSR accounted for 18% as you come up with what language they will speak in such a republic

Is this your census year data, Little Johnny? already lifted up his endless lies and distortion.

[kuz363]

Actually, this is the way it should be in civilized countries. For example, in Belgium, in order to obtain citizenship, even having the birth certificate there, you need to know one of the official languages ​​- Flemish, French, German. So if you want to be the boss in Kazakhstan, learn Kazakh. Nothing wrong

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: stranik72

because of this, he was not invited to a Bialowieza conspiracy

that's really funny

[Tom230]

The article is complete nonsense. In vain even read. Only spoiled my mood in the morning. I will not even discuss this topic.

[Andrey KZ]

It is alarming that recently there have been many articles with a negative connotation in relation to Kazakhstan. A public opinion favorable to someone is being formed. We have to admit that Mrs. Clinton, who is Hillary, keeps her promise. I am glad if the "liberal" media and "experts" barked. , so we are going the right way comrades. Also, the almost complete unanimity of the site visitors cannot but rejoice. Greetings to all!

[Circle]

The article is a provocation on emotions. And a dirty provocation. Ask what Nazarbayev did during these August days and in the near future in 1991.

The main and consistent initiator of the Customs Union was suddenly a destroyer. The USSR was destroyed by Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich with anti-state connivance Gorbachev. With the violation of all conceivable and inconceivable legal and human laws, including the conduct (for some reason by Gorbachev) of the results of an all-union referendum in the spring of 1991 with the only question: should the USSR be preserved. A large country responded positively.

And therefore, the first president of the USSR ex officio had to take all measures to fulfill the will of the people. And do not go on about the three swollen senility. These are the "destroyers of the USSR". And Russia, as one of the coolest republics of the Union, is simply must It was in favor of its preservation and strengthening, and not of decay. Yeltsin is due personal disagreement with Gorbachev, he put the future of the state on the line. What came of this to the delight of the "progressive West" we all now not only see. But they also survived "all the delights" of collective betrayal. So do not deceive the youth and yourself.

All people have their own shortcomings, including Nazarbayev. However, one does not need to ascribe to a person what he did not do. Moreover - turn upside down and hang tags. Bold minus the article.

[avt]

Quote: Circle

The article is a provocation on emotions. And a dirty provocation. Ask what Nazarbayev did during these August days and in the near future in 1991.

The fact that the article is pro-American and provocative agrees completely, with clean water, or rather dirty, propaganda. So, it is slightly tinted for analytics. It seems that the consciousness of people is loosened, the consciousness is prepared for certain actions, even the vehicle is like a bone in the throat, not to mention greater integration, but propaganda lays on fertile soil, the problem is painful and it will not be much to aggravate its work.

Quote: ymNIK1970

We will see the result in 2014.

It is possible. But the date must be taken as a semantic code, as the name of the stock, but the meaning is correct

[ymNIK1970]

The article is correct. Pure Bandera. We will see the result in 2014.

[Semurg]

Quote: ymNIK1970

The article is correct. Pure Bandera. We will see the result in 2014.

We were waiting for 12g and the end of the world, did not come. We are waiting for 14 g and the end of the world, it will not come. I’m tired of waiting for either the end of the world or the bright future. I think the union will be built, I hope it will bring more pluses than minuses. Well, at least on this branch did not fall for provocative article (a.kurtov often flashes with a negative about Kazakhstan and Nazarbayev, probably some personal insults?

[Marek Rozny]

Azhdar Kurtov is a well-known Russian political scientist who, since the beginning of the 90s, began to predict the collapse and aggravation of interethnic relations in Kazakhstan. Since the forecast does not come true, it simply pushes back the date of the "X" hour every year. If Kurtov says at least something good about Kazakhstan, the sky will fall to earth in surprise.

[smile]

ymNIK1970
Not true. Comparing with Bandera is simply unreasonable and completely unreasonable ... and 14 years old ... I'm afraid to wait to understand what we will have to take much longer ...

[kind]

Quote: knn54

Destroyer of the USSR Nazarbayev will never become a creator.
So that's who the Union destroyed. And we EBN AND MSG (Kravchuk, Shushkevich) are spread rot, it turns out badly.
Not tired of the extreme look?
V. Ushakov: ... of the twelve regions that were illegally transferred to Kazakhstan ...
15 volosts of the Omsk district and Akmola, Atbasar, Kokchetav and Petropavlovsk districts of the Omsk province in 1921 were transferred to Kazakhstan (the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic). Kalinin, not Nikita.

Let us recall the illegal seizure of the lands of the Siberian Khanate by Yermak.

[avt]

Quote: Good

Let us recall the illegal seizure of the lands of the Siberian Khanate by Yermak.

But he did not capture anything. Kuchum, having heard about an unsuccessful company in Livonia, refused to collect and send tribute to Moscow, sending a corresponding message to Van, for some reason called by the historians of Grozny, although such a nickname was given to Ivan IIIm. Well, since there were no free troops, the tsar, for great privileges in trade, instructed the Stroganovs to sort out the issue. They then gathered PMCs from the Cossacks under the leadership of Ermak to restore constitutional order. This confirms the rather calm behavior of the local population in relation to the Cossacks. Well, then the king sent the regular parts.

[smsk]

V. Ushakov

The whole problem is not in the banana republics, as you cannot understand. The whole point is the weakness of Russia itself. You yourself in Russia have been betrayed by your rulers, not to mention Russians abroad. Russia does not affect anything in the world, cannot declare in full voice about its interests. What prevents you from kicking all the gaster back?
I sincerely wish Russia to be strong in this world, so that all countries respect and fear it, so that no Qatari bastard could even think with impunity to poke the Russian ambassador face on the asphalt. Then there will be respect (fear) for Russians in the world.

[avt]

Quote: smsk

What prevents you from kicking all the gaster back?

Only Marxism interferes. For it is said that there is no such crime that the capitalist will not commit with 300% profit. Confirmation is the latest prohibition of GDP for Gaster to work as sellers and cashiers - only having Russian citizenship. For the year, almost 90% of Gaster’s online campaigns, business - nothing personal. No sick leave, labor unions, vacations, well, etc. In general, there is no Labor Code and a minimum of white salary with the corresponding tax deductions.

[nemec55]

VOOOOOOOOT golden words. You are a huge plus.

[Grishka100watt]

This article is a provocation.

[RUS]

As long as our government does not listen, respect and protect the interests of Russians in Russia, we can not talk about other countries. This is to ask what else is better for the Russian in Grozny or Alma-Ata, Makhachkala or Bishkek, Nalchik or Dushanbe, and in the south of Stavropol what is better?

[V. Ushakov]

Yes, nowhere is better. None of the above locations. How to separate - at once became a complete scum. And the further, the more this abomination will increase. It can only be held back by Russia's military reinforcement - by a couple of orders of magnitude. Then they will quiet down: it is no good to make noise when the strong one is nearby.

[nemec55]

It won’t be, the divide is not up to the citizens

[dc120mm]

Very interesting stats, carefully read.

[Barvetum]

from the very beginning of the article I realized that the article is complete nonsense. Where did you come up with this? What is the way out of the customs union? What is the eradication of Russians? What are you talking about? Even if we take the southern regions (where I come from), there are Russians there, but I don’t say anything about the northern regions, there the ratio of Kazakhs and Russians is about 60-70 at 40-30. And I am glad, for readers, that they did not fall for this provocation, and keep in mind that before you write such articles, study the history.

[Galinanp]

The article is clearly from a series of State Department orders. The Clintons some time ago voiced the attitude of the Anglo-Saxons towards the integration of Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other republics of the USSR in the future, that they (the Anglo-Saxons) would not allow this. The media in the entire post-Soviet space in their hands, various corrupt political scientists, experts, etc. So such stuffing should be treated as an element of information warfare.

[Semyon Albertovich]

The main thing is as if Nazarbayev did not outwit himself.

[aviamed90]

The article is somehow awkward. Neither this nor that.
Never been to Kazakhstan. The only thing that is familiar is the Russian exodus from the country. There really is a problem with that. Faced this by accident.

I had a good acquaintance from there (they studied together at the military academy). I must say that the Kazakhs at that time (1996-1999) studied at our military academies for gold. They studied in Russian groups, had access to all the secrets, but naturally they did not go to outfits and to parades. All this (the educational process, everyday life) was controlled by the military attaché of the embassy. Well, at one fine moment, my friend says - why, they say, let's join our army! I was stunned! I'm Russian, and I have Russian citizenship. And he skillfully explains to me that this is not prohibited by the laws of the Russian Federation and possibly within the framework of the CIS treaties. Broke for a long time. He promised a "colonel", an apartment, a decent "denyuzhka".
And then he nevertheless admitted to me - there are not enough qualified officers for technical and staff posts, especially pilots. And this happens not only in the army, but also in all sectors of the economy, in schools, etc. The reason is simple - the Russians are leaving in droves. He modestly kept silent about the reasons for the departure of the Russians. And it’s not difficult to guess for yourself.
And the task of recruiting came from the embassy.
First, it turns out that the Russians pointed to the door, and then began to lure, when there was no one to work.

[Ram chandra]

Well, that’s why we love Russians.

[d.gksueyjd]

The article is untrue - the Kazakh SSR was the last to leave the USSR, and this is the fault of three alcoholics, by name: Yeltsin, Kravchuk, Shushkevich! By the way, Yeltsin was awarded the highest Russian order for this!

[mr.rafael-r]

For those who have left KZ (such as I), there is nothing new in the article, and unfortunately this is true. In the republic there is even a word used by the government itself - MULTI-VECTORITY: on the one hand, we are with the Russian Federation, and on the other with the Islamic world, but we listen to the United States and work with China))). And there is oppression, only everything is cleverly done - no one cuts or kicks anyone, they just create conditions when they give up.
And I will answer the gentlemen of the KZ patriots right away to work further for the benefit of no desire, three generations of ancestors built and developed and turned out to be invaders.
Kazakh Fascism in KZ is growing. Go to sites like Azatyk.

[Andrey KZ]

Mr. Raphael, "azattyk" is something like "swamp" in Russia and no one listens to them here. Well, you should never give up, not in our language, not in Russian!

[Alibekulu]

Quote: mr.rafael-r

For those who left KZ (such as I), there is nothing new in the article, and unfortunately this is true.

True, not all ..

MULTI-VECTORITY: on the one hand, we are with the Russian Federation, and on the other, with the Islamic world, but we listen to the United States and work with China)))

And why can’t we cooperate with the Islamic world, the USA and China ?? But the Russian Federation does not cooperate ?! Listen, we are not telling you ".. with whom not to sleep, and with whom to be friends .."

. And there is oppression, only everything is cleverly done - no one cuts or kicks anyone, they just create conditions when they give up.

Hmm, Kazakhs need to solve all your problems for you - put food in your mouth, put to bed .. dance for the mood ?!

And I will answer the gentlemen of the KZ patriots immediately to work further for the benefit there is no desire

It’s like, did you plow for the good of Kazakhstan, and not for yourself and your family ?? There is no desire do not work, just do not say that you worked only for the good of Kazakhstan - you are our benefactor

Kazakh Fascism in the KZ

Tell where in Russia fascism is growing ?? And not on sites, but on the streets of Russian cities ..

[Andrey KZ]

Quote: mr.rafael-r

no one cuts or kicks anyone

Alibek, progress is as if on the face.

[Alibekulu]

Andrey in this progress thanks first of all it is necessary to tell you , as well as Sergei, Eugene, Cyril and other Russian Kazakhstanis ..
Earlier in the forums "VO" on topics related to Kazakhstan, as a rule, our "exes" spoke and they created and create "public opinion" in Russia that we almost eat Russians alive .. And, to be honest, it hurt that none of our Russian fellow citizens will express their own, objective "not blinkered" opinion about the interethnic and interethnic situation, as they say "firsthand" .. and not the speculations spread by our "former" .. (Although, of course, they have their own , often "bitter" truth) .. In our "hacks" with the Russians, the facts and arguments we cite were not taken into account because, objectively, they (our arguments and facts) were subjective in their eyes .. And you know Andrey was very upset I thought ... well, really, out of many Russian Kazakhs, there is not at least one who will come up with a different opinion, different from these - in frankly "black tones" .. (Caravan - Eugene .. I took for a Kazakh )
And in the discussion of the topic "Is it necessary to restrain the process of the exodus of Russians from the countries of Central Asia: opinions" I was very surprised and glad that such our Russian fellow citizens were found and not a few .. And they were able to give a consolidated rebuff to the so-called "defenders of humiliated and oppressed Russians" ..
And for this you all from us All Kazakhs on "VO" (I hope ours will not be angry with me for exceeding their powers) :
Ylken RAKHMET OTANDASTAR

[mr.rafael-r]

Andrey You are an idealist. My name and surname and patronymic are not Russian at all. And somehow it so happened that people of non-Russian nationality said a lot to me, as it were, in a friendly way, many "good" words about Russians and Russia. And note this, not some Natsik, but seemingly ordinary people. An example of this is the son of Alibek.

Quote: Alibekulu

. And there is oppression, only everything is cleverly done - no one cuts or kicks anyone, they just create conditions when they give up. Hmm, Kazakhs, that you need to solve all your problems for you - put food in your mouth, put to bed .. dance for the mood ?!
And I will answer the gentlemen of the KZ patriots right away to work further for the good there is no desire. Is that the type you plowed for the good of Kazakhstan, and not for yourself and your family ?? There is no desire do not work, just do not say that you worked only for the good of Kazakhstan - you are our benefactor

You see how hurt it is for the living. And he himself knows that I'm right And about the taxes that I (like everything else) paid probably were not the state treasury.
Alibek’s son, tell me what happened to the Azerbaijanis from NovoUzensk (Zhana Ozen) - some of them were cut out and left. How many Russians are left in Chimkent? Kustonay, Karaganda, Petropavlovsk, Pavlodar, Ust-Kaman are not Kazakh for another 50%, but this is not for long.


Andrew, God forbid, that I was wrong. But after 5-7 years, you will remember this conversation. I am sure that you will remember in the Russian Federation.

[mr.rafael-r]

The flag is good, and most importantly correct. Learn Chinese, it will be useful to you. Benefactor and hard worker.
SU you probably did not find.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: mr.rafael-r

The flag is good, and most importantly correct.

What no longer to get to the bottom ?? Just what about the color of the flag ?!
You still get to Winnie the Pooh on my profile picture

Learn Chinese, it will come in handy

Any foreign language will come in handy, be it Chinese or English ... I would be very happy if I knew Chinese ..

Benefactor and hard worker.

Interesting, and where did I call myself that? I did not position myself as a benefactor or a hard worker .. Actually, it was you who flaunted that:

there is no desire to work further for the benefit, three generations of ancestors built and developed ...

[Marek Rozny]

Radio Azattyk is Radio Liberty (just under the Kazakh name, but look at the badge more closely if you don't know the translation of the word). To pass off this American resource as the opinion of the Kazakhs is like calling Brzezinski a mouthpiece for the Kremlin.
None of my comments on the Azattyk website have ever been moderated. And I am sure that all the comments there are written by the employees of the site "Freedom-Azattyk" Amer they do not just pay money. By the way, this is the only resource where adherents of radical Islam hang out. The Wahhabis and the American media in Kazakhstan are tied with strong friendship.

In general, frankly, I doubt that Kazakhstan was of any use to you. Zaletny you. Just a guest worker. And you didn’t work for free. Have you been paid extra? Write a complaint. Calculated? What are the claims against Kazakhstan-employer?

Here, in Andrew you can feel the owner and the citizen. It doesn't matter if he is Russian or Korean. He is a full-fledged part of this country with all rights and responsibilities. And you lived as a migrant worker and having left, you remained just a migrant worker. I do not feel any regret from your departure. The more such alarmists, provocateurs, chauvinists (although, of course, you all think of yourself as the first "internationalists") and outright lazy people leave - the better for Kazakhstanis of all nationalities. How many "Russian-speaking" people from Kazakhstan left for Russia? A million and a half like? At least someone gave something to the new homeland? Give at least one last name. Any Kazakh will name a bunch of Russian Kazakhs that he is proud of. But does anyone know at least one surname of an ex-Kazakhstani who left after 1991, whom Russia or Kazakhstan would be proud of (or at least just knew)? Whom have we "lost"? Take offense, do not be offended, but I have a low opinion of all our "refugees". For 20 years, none of them has achieved anything in Russia. And this is in the absence of "Kazakh oppressors and oppressors"! What did you do here, comrades, then in Kazakhstan, except for the production of saliva? Banal losers who did not realize themselves in Kazakhstan and blamed the Kazakhs for this and the signs on the streets. And now, in Russia, they have predictably turned out to be losers, and all of them. An ordinary gray mass at best, incapable of giving birth to a single outstanding representative for Russia. Who's guilty? "Kazakh nationalists", of course ... You see how they intimidated you in KZ, that you still can't straighten your shoulders in Russia.

If any Russian made a real contribution to the development of Soviet or modern Kazakhstan, then he will give up what his hands and the hands of his fathers touched. A normal person will not give up what was paid for with his sweat and blood. And if someone wants to "harass" him and take away something of his personal, then he will clench his hands into fists and put the "oppressor" in his place. If I come to your house and say: "Get out of here, this is my apartment now," you will be indignant and beat me with a cock, because this your apartment... Likewise, a normal Russian Kazakhstani will send a hit on someone who will try to "infringe" on him. And he will be right. And the Kazakhs will fully support him. And let the rogues from among the "disadvantaged" go anywhere, there is no need for us to spoil the gene pool with plain blood. I would rather marry my children to strong, brave, hard-working Russians than to weak weak-willed whiners from among my nationality.

[Alibekulu]

The Russians will leave Kazakhstan and this is an objective reality .. And, this makes me a little sad. Himself grew up in a multilingual and multi-ethnic environment (mainly Russian) .. And in the future it will shrink like shagreen skin .. And there are a lot of both objective and biased factors ..
There is Kazakh nationalism, but there is also Russian nationalism .. And it will always be so. And no need to raise a tantrum about this .. In each country they (nationalists) are and usually they are a minority ..
And moreover, as a rule, they are marginalized .. and seek to compensate for their personal failures in nationalism ..
The death of the Russian population occurs for many reasons, and nationalism on this scale is far from in the first place ..

[Andrey KZ]

Alibek, where does such pessimism come from? Do you know something that I don’t know? I don’t give a damn about Natsik, I don’t notice them and most of them don’t notice, they will degenerate like a weak link.

[Egoza]

Quote: Andrey KZ

I don’t notice them, I don’t notice them and most of them don’t notice, they will degenerate as a weak link.

do not expect! Ukraine is an example of this! Natsik need to pay attention and crush right away! Until they have grown!

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Andrey KZ

Alibek, where such pessimism comes from

Andrey, yes there is a reason ..
In 2011, exactly during the events in Jean-Ozen, there was an extremely unpleasant situation in Kostanay ..
I was not in Kazakhstan then, I was in Kazan .. And, upon arrival, my brother told me .. so I bought it for that and sell it .. maybe all the rumors and lies .. I’ll tell you in a slightly hyperbolic syllable ..
In general, at that time, the infamous events in Jean-Ozen, in Kostanay, the bus burned out (or did not burn out) .. Burned out, but oh well, where it doesn’t happen - interesting to continue ..
Rumors began to circulate around the city at the speed of lightning that the Kazakh Natsik had done it and that the Kazakhs would begin to slaughter the Russians ... That night many could not sleep, they were waiting for them to be slaughtered ..
You know, it would be funny if it weren’t so sad ..
I, of course, understand everything, but it was extremely unpleasant that our Russians really thought that the Kazakhs would organize pogroms .. It hurts most of all what they thought about us ..
It seems that we live together in one country, we go to each other's houses, we watch football together - we drink beer, but they think of us like that ..
When I found out about this, I asked my friend about this situation .. And also my own, how to call her .. mentors, or something (she is to me, like a second mother ..) ..
Well, they hesitated, did not know what to say ...
But, by their reaction and their eyes, it was clear that then they really believed in IT ..
Something like that..
P.S. Hmm, I'm a pessimist in life, but life ..
Life makes you be optimistic

[mr.rafael-r]

Quote: Alibekulu

The death of the Russian population occurs for many reasons, and nationalism on this scale is far from in the first place ..

Yah. In the books on the new history of Kazakhstan there are no words about the colonization of KZ by Russians? And the right to apply in Russian to state bodies is not taken away? And the cities built for the most part are not renamed Russian? Not only that, in the State Institution and other things without Kazakh knowledge they no longer take it, so gentlemen of the parliament (majors ) a couple of times they suggested introducing a compulsory knowledge item for kazyaz and LLP. If this is not nationalism, then what is it.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: mr.rafael-r

In the books on the new history of Kazakhstan there are no words about the colonization of KZ by Russians?

Do not confuse wise guy ... I won’t say offhand, but in my opinion it talks about the colonial policy of the Russian empire ..
I do not like "words about colonization ... in books on the new history of Kazakhia .."
Well Now i am you I will give words about colonization from Russian books and from the lips of Russian historians. For example, the famous researcher of Siberia - Yadrintsev Nikolay Mikhailovich will come down ?! (I note not Kazakh! ) The author of the sensational book in its time, with an interesting title for you "Siberia as a colony".. True, the sonorous name ??!
Read at your leisure, before making a claim .. Here on "VO", they usually write like this: "Learn materiel mr.rafael-r - learn materiel mr.rafael-r ...

http://elib.tomsk.ru/elib/data/2010/2010-0020/00006.png
P.S. I advise sometimes .. although I would like to pick up books from time to time .. very useful

[Alibekulu]

Here is another photo of the contents of the chapters of the book .. True interesting names : "V. Colonization of Siberia and modern resettlement.", "Siberia as a product of colonization", "Periods of state colonization, industrial, commercial and agricultural colonization", "Managing colonization and places chosen by the people", "The role of Siberia in" future colonization ...
More opinions of Russian or Russian historians about colonization needed ??

[Lopatov]

Have you read the book itself? It would be better for you to delete these posts. In order not to give arguments to opponents in a dispute.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Spade

It would be better for you to delete these posts.

Here's what’s interesting to me .. why don’t you write them and offer them ??
In the end, my comments are just answers to the attacks of my opponents.
That is, if they did not write, then I would be silent .. If they delete theirs, then I also agree to do it without problems .. Only, there is a moment of technical character .. how to actually delete ?!

In order not to give arguments to opponents in a dispute.

So damn, do you think they will stop ?!

[Lopatov]

They won't stop. Read what the author means by "colonization" And then you only looked at the cover and the content. They will not leave a stone unturned from your argumentation.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Spade

They will not stop.

Well, but why are you so worried about me? ..
I repeat, why don’t they write to them ?!

Quote: Spade

They will not leave stone upon stone from your argument.

Well, okay .. they won’t leave, they won’t leave ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: Alibekulu

I repeat, why don’t they write to them ?!

About what? That "colonization" in Russian meant all kinds of development of territories while protecting the rights of the local population? Everyone knows that. Including you. But you need to justify Nazyrbaev's statements.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Spade

About what? That "colonization" in Russian meant all kinds of development of territories while protecting the rights of the local population?

Nda And you will turn out of these ... "Big White Gaspadin" mean ..

This is so everyone knows. Including you.

You are right, I and the other Kazakhs know, but they know about the negative side of this process .. And if you are really interested, look at the profile Marek Rozny.. everything in his comments is well-reasoned and thorough, with links and so on. etc. not like mine the attitude of the Kazakhs on all problematic issues is given .. Read, it will be interesting to you .. True, it often brings it, but this is the cost of a hot and honest disposition .. Interestingly, it has not been on the site for a long time .. By the way, if he was, I would not have climbed into this controversy at all .. Not that level

Quote: Spade

But you need to justify Nazyrbaev’s statements

What a fright I, and we Kazakhs should justify it We generally agree with him!?! If you really need a detailed comment - contact Becku.. I think, AGAI, everything will explain to you in detail and in detail Much better than me .. So contact ..

[Marek Rozny]

Hello! No, they didn’t ban) It’s just a forum forum, but you also need to earn money, it wasn’t up to the site)
As for the "level", I do not at all think that your level is lower than mine, your head is already cooking normally, and there are more than enough healthy thoughts. And there are a lot of other Kazakhstanis here who know how to adequately and informally respond.
It is especially pleasing that the majority of our Russian Kazakhs react sensibly to such articles and the fabrications of some "refugees".

[Alibekulu]

Greetings .. Very glad. We always read your comments with interest. Very informative and informative ..

Quote: Marek Rozny

Kazakhstanis here are a shaft who are able to adequately and informedly respond.

Hmm, even somehow takes pride in ours .. As a rule, they write competently and competently express their opinion ..

happy that most of our Russian Kazakhstanis react sensibly

I join ..

[Yarbay]

Quote: Alibekulu

Greetings .. Very glad. We always read your comments with interest. Very informative and informative ..

I support !!!!!!!!!!

[Marek Rozny]

Rahmet. By the way, a little off topic, but in an article on the Kengerlin cavalry, I asked about who the rulers were from among the Azerbaijanis? Apparently there simply no one has yet seen. An interesting principle is the election of power. If everything is clear with us - from the Chingizid Sultans in the elections by influential people from the people, then how did you manage this matter? After all, Azerbaijanis have a unique situation - a mixture of Turkic realities and local Caucasian. Plus, contact with the Turks and Persians, who had their own control mechanisms.

[lecturer]

I am proud for US, for RUSSIAN!
For not hiding "their" mistakes, i.e. "government" or "Yeltsin" - and, accept them as OWN!
YES, I read it, and almost no one wrote off on "someone"!
Here is the RUSSIAN SPIRIT, here it smells of Russia !!!
P / S Well, and the article (?) ... so, the enemy's voice is everywhere !!! They get paid for "it".

[Ram chandra]

Custom-made article is nonsense. Pleased komenty. Everything is good. Russians in Kazakhstan / Kazakhstan the road is open. If you are smart, strong, brave, and indeed - you are welcome! No need to divide people according to nationality - you need to divide people according to their abilities. And the Kazakhs need to strive to be smarter, stronger - well, you understand. And not to drive away those who are smarter, more capable of them - and this, as I see it, is the main problem of the Nazis. They just realize that weaker.

[serpentine fist]

Nurek got to you too !!! and it pleases, it means you did everything right, although all the laurels of the integrator now go to Putin.

[Alibekulu]

Summarizing ..

Quote: Spade
But you need to justify Nazyrbaev’s statements

And why, you yourself perfectly answered your own question ..

Quote: Spade
"Colonization" in Russian meant all kinds of development of territories while protecting the rights of the local population?

those. according to your quote (which I quoted above), Nazarbayev's speech must be understood, in Lapatov's way, as follows: "After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, every development of the territories while protecting the rights of the local population The Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. "

[Nomad]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

it’s you who steamed it; it’s filled in unfinished, at each faculty there was a group in which the instruction was in the Kazakh language, you weren’t in the Kazakh Soviet Socialist Republic, therefore, sit quietly and don’t stand out for culture, he didn’t know you didn’t know what was and what wasn’t. aul

Well, finally, Vasilenko ceased to pretend to be an intellectual and showed everyone his true cattle essence. Not a single fact, only a piglet screeching, insulting and inventing a sick consciousness.

[Nomad]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

my opponent stated that there was NO education in the Kazakh language, that the culture was in the pen, I argue that this is a blatant FALSE

Oops! Vasilenko, it turns out, is also a specialist in Kazakh culture!

[Nomad]

Quote: Alibekulu

Andrey in this progress thanks first of all it is necessary to tell you, as well as Sergey, Eugene, Cyril and other Russian Kazakhstanis ..

Join us!

[Nomad]

"it was you who put up the unfinished stuff, at each faculty there was a group in which the training was in the Kazakh language, you weren’t in the Kazakh SSR, so sit quietly and don’t show off your culture, you don’t know what was and what wasn’t."
aul ram "
Well, finally, Vasilenko stopped building himself as an intellectual and showed everyone his true bydlyasche essence. Not a single fact, only a piglet screeching, insulting and inventing a sick fashizoid consciousness. By the way, his profile picture is suitable, I’ll now call him Rabid Dog Vasilenko. )))

[Xenial]

The title, of course, is loud, but, like most of the information in the article, empty speculation.

My Almaty family is almost in the fourth generation. But over the past years, from all sides it has been hinted that you are not in your place, not in your land. There are fewer and fewer Russians in high positions. If there are a sufficient number of Russian children in state schools, then in elite they can already be counted on the fingers.

The fact that the fewer Russians, the better, is sometimes quite well seen.

[osoboye_mneniye]

terrible article. All in a bunch. And in the end, without any reason, Nazarbayev was accused of all problems.
About the outcome of the Russians, the question was turned upside down. The Russians began to be oppressed, but not because the authorities wanted it, but because the Kazakhs shoved their eagles to the helm everywhere. In any state, the helm should have a titular nation. There was an excess in Kazakhstan with this, but no more than in other post-Soviet states.
Moreover, Kazakhstan is, along with Belarus, the only state where wars and coups were avoided.
Apparently this gnaws at the “partners”, since such articles appear.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Duysenbai Sbankulov,

Vladimir can you remember 1986, when the hunchback appointed Kolbin to the post of first secretary of the CPSU of Kazakhstan, or is this also a myth ???

what is this for?
By the way, the question immediately is what was the concern of non-party Kazakhs before?

[Duisenbay Bankankulov]

Vladimir, in the history of Kazakhstan during the reign of the Communists there were such persons as Golovoschekin and Mirzoyan, well, plus kolbin. Well, you had to learn a little history at school so as not to ask stupid questions ....

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

clear knowledge of zero Pontus per 100
you can answer the question what relation do the non-party have to the party "inter-party" ?!
further, what does the Goloshchekin have to do with it, and what does it have to do with colbin? !!!
minus you for not knowing completely

[kuz363]

Complete nonsense of the author and complete speculation.
The locomotive of the Eurasian Union was just Nazarbayev. And remember which republic was the last to leave the USSR in 1991. That's right, Kazakhstan.
There is no mass exodus of Russians now. Yes, in the 90s a lot of people left, but not only Russians, but also Germans, Turks, Ukrainians .... They mainly went to their historical homelands. After all, many employees of defense enterprises had apartments reserved, and in order not to lose them due to the collapse of the USSR, they had to return. And in recent years, the annual outflow is in the range of 30-35 thousand. Most of course in Russia, often due to continued studies of children or support from parents. As for the Cossacks, their activities were promptly suppressed in Uralsk. Otherwise, it would have happened like in Chechnya. But Cossack emissaries from Russia came to them for leadership and each state should worry about its security.

[1536]

First of all, it is necessary for the Russian leadership to revise its foreign and domestic policy, and not to blame it on its sane. So far, no real actions have been taken beyond declarative statements. Moreover, some ugly monster with a non-Russian surname is running around the country, shouting about some kind of corruption, and that look will bring crowds of people dissatisfied with everything and everyone to the streets of the cities, start a “revolution”. This follows from the analysis of the media. Moreover, foreign media support this. The last straw will probably be the "disclosure" of corrupt officials at a cheese factory that is of "poor quality" compared to foreign counterparts, and taxi drivers don’t eat it, complain ...
And how do you order the same Kazakhs to all this? Nobody knows what will happen tomorrow? What will happen in 2018, and in 2024? Nobody knows. The Americans are so insolent that they are ready to abduct Russian citizens directly from the Lubyanka metro station in the Moscow metro. And so on.
That's all sane neighbors and think it is better to maintain close ties with the Americans or the Chinese than with people whose right hand does not know what the left hand is doing, who, in addition to everything else, are completely defenseless, or are playing a double game. An unenviable prospect. And all because of some kind of stupid little picture on TV screens, understatement in life, lack of development plans, goals, prospects, betting on the wrong people. That is, simply, because of a small mind, as it turns out in practice.

[Vladimir K]

Who needs this Eurasian Union is a consequence not of the imperative of the time, but of the political situation. Is it really not clear GDP? A similar situation happened with Ukraine. The egoism of local elites cannot be overcome. All around are traitors. Stop squandering people's money for all sorts of dubious projects.

[Foreman49]

And now say that for the Kremlin and Putin this is news again. Nazarbay is not alone yet there is Minikhan, Kadyrka, Erdogan and their lyceums, where they give only Russophobia.