Military Review

The main task of the Airborne Troops Command is multipurpose re-equipment of the troops as soon as possible.

254
The main task of the Airborne Troops Command is multipurpose re-equipment of the troops as soon as possible.

The main task of the Airborne Forces Command (Airborne Forces) as a military command body is a multi-purpose rearmament of troops in the shortest possible time (the nearest 3-5 years) terms, Commander of the Airborne Forces Colonel-General Vladimir Shamanov told reporters.


According to the Commander of the Airborne Forces, in the development of a number of armored tracked vehicles for the Airborne Forces, the ideology laid down by the legendary Vasily Margelov should be sustained - three units of airborne combat vehicles (platoon) should be transported and parachuted from one aircraft. At the same time, the characteristics of armor protection and armament of airborne combat vehicles (BMD) must meet the latest requirements.

“All these indicators are met by the new BMD-4M combat vehicle,” says Vladimir Shamanov. “It’s certainly not perfect, but it has tremendous potential for further improvement and modernization of both the base chassis and the weapon module,” he concluded.

According to Colonel-General Vladimir Shamanov, the first 5 units of BMD-4М Airborne Forces will be received for the final state tests by the end of this year. Another 5 units BMD-4М and 10 units of the multipurpose shell armored carrier shell - in the first half of 2014.

At the same time, the Airborne Forces Command is considering the options for adopting reconnaissance, special units and airborne support units for lightly armored vehicles.

“Our Tiger family cars have proven themselves well, but for the final decision on their adoption it is necessary to carry out a full range of military tests, including checking the possibility of their landing from military transport aircraft aviation”, Continued Colonel-General Vladimir Shamanov.

“In this regard, we have established close cooperation with the management of KamAZ. There are already good developments, and in September-October of the current year, the first samples of equipment meeting the requirements of the Airborne Forces will begin to flow to the troops, ”he concluded.

The multi-purpose approach and the unified ideology in re-equipping the troops are incorporated into the state armament program and are reflected in the plans to re-equip and re-equip the airborne troops before 2020.
Author:
254 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 10: 14 New
    40
    The main task of the Airborne Forces Command (Airborne Forces) as a military command body is a multi-purpose rearmament of troops in the shortest possible time (the nearest 3-5 years) terms, Commander of the Airborne Forces Colonel-General Vladimir Shamanov told reporters.
    It's nice when the “helm” is a man who knows perfectly “what he wants and how to achieve it.” Good luck and success to you, Comrade COMMANDER!
    1. Russian
      Russian 11 May 2013 10: 24 New
      +3
      I hope there will not be any problems with rearmament, and they will be completed within this period.
      1. svp67
        svp67 11 May 2013 10: 30 New
        +2
        Quote: р_у_с_с_к_и_й
        I hope there will not be any problems with rearmament, and they will be completed within this period.
        And the price will not rise much ...
        1. patline
          patline 11 May 2013 11: 11 New
          -19
          Yes, in general, all ground forces probably need to be given under the command of the Airborne Forces, well, maybe except for the tankmen, perhaps ...
          1. svp67
            svp67 11 May 2013 11: 14 New
            +6
            Quote: patline
            Yes, in general, all ground forces probably need to be given under the command of the Airborne Forces, well, maybe except for the tankmen, perhaps ...

            God is God, Caesar is Caesar ...
          2. vilenich
            vilenich 11 May 2013 12: 49 New
            -6
            On the contrary, it would not hurt to do so.
        2. vilenich
          vilenich 11 May 2013 12: 48 New
          10
          Quote: svp67
          And the price will not rise much ...

          So after all already lifted! We had to buy 10 units this year, then the figure was 7 units, and now 5 and 5 in 2014. With such a rise in prices in 3-5 years, there is no way. It is necessary to stop chaos and go to normal economically reasonable prices.
      2. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 11 May 2013 12: 36 New
        12
        "I hope there will be no problems with rearmament," - how will this not arise ?! What do you think you can systematically destroy the defense industry, and then once, and make a bunch of high-quality and cheap weapons?
        Well, just the top of naivety!
      3. SlavakharitonoV
        SlavakharitonoV 11 May 2013 22: 26 New
        +3
        "" "5 units of the BMD-4M Airborne Forces will be received for the final state tests before the end of this year. Another 5 units of BMD-4M and 10 units of the multipurpose armored personnel carrier" Shell "- in the first half of 2014." ""
        But this is very slow! I understand that if 20 30 40 well 50 units go into operation This is the pace! And for 5 pieces, we will modernize the army for 20 years and not finish
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Civil
        Civil 11 May 2013 12: 07 New
        -10
        Airborne .. a direct cult of some sort recently
        1. mehanik27
          mehanik27 11 May 2013 13: 20 New
          -9
          The airborne forces are not a cult, but simply a brand. The people are led by these three magical letters, and behind the screen they are slowly sawing and sawing ....
        2. Tambov we ...
          Tambov we ... 11 May 2013 15: 48 New
          13
          This is not a cult - it is yours and mine and our REAL PROTECTION!
          1. mehanik27
            mehanik27 11 May 2013 21: 11 New
            +8
            My and your defense are all the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, a small part of which is the Airborne Forces. And now the Airborne Forces has been turned into a brand, including those who are at the helm of these troops. Which, among other things, will confirm your comment, since the installation has popped into your head that only the Airborne Forces are our REAL PROTECTION. So it’s better to knock denyushku.
      2. vilenich
        vilenich 11 May 2013 13: 38 New
        +6
        Quote: NO HOPE
        The shaman himself does not know what he wants.

        Yes, he knows everything! And he wants it right! Any normal person will lobby his interests (official or personal in this case is not important), so he is lobbying! The main thing is that the top leadership clearly balance its requirements with the development priorities of other types and arms of service.
      3. skeptic-
        skeptic- 11 May 2013 16: 08 New
        +7
        Quote: NO HOPE
        The shaman himself does not know what he wants.


        I don’t know what your shaman knows or does not know, and Shamans simply require the necessary airborne weapons. After 20 years of the collapse of the military-industrial complex, it is difficult to get the amount of modern technology, but at the pace, at the Soviet level. You should not fool around on the subject of the Airborne Forces, as these are troops, belonging to which gives a feeling of pride to any decent person. In order to understand, you need to blaspheme real, not virtual epaulets, then there will be no desire in an empty bazaar.
        1. shipp53
          shipp53 11 May 2013 21: 35 New
          +5
          The special production at the Volgograd Tractor Plant made only machines for the "Paratroopers", from BMD1 to BMD4, Rakushki, Sprutai, etc ..., and now the production of BMD is completely destroyed, the production of landing vehicles has been transferred to the Kurgan Machine-Building Plant, which made only BMP, here they are tormented with Shell, BMD4M, because this is new for them, because BMD kostruktors fought for reducing the weight of the machine (so that it could land), and Kurgan still has a problem weight, because the production of landing vehicles in Volgograd was specifically destroyed to weaken Airborne power, and buying for a cordon techniques, examples already est.Na photo at the beginning of the article machine Volgograd trakornogo BMD4 plant, made up 2008goda.
    3. APASUS
      APASUS 11 May 2013 12: 46 New
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      It's nice when the “helm” is a man who knows perfectly “what he wants and how to achieve it.” Good luck and success to you, Comrade COMMANDER!

      So then, logically, we all should head their ministries in profile!
      And it turns out that a person with the education of a trader was headed by the Moscow Region or the Social Development Ministry was headed by a cyber economist.
  2. il grand casino
    il grand casino 11 May 2013 10: 25 New
    -4
    Are our people preparing to throw troops somewhere ... An interesting trend
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 May 2013 10: 27 New
      12
      Quote: il grand casino
      Are our people preparing to throw troops somewhere ... An interesting trend
      OURS are preparing to PROTECT RUSSIA, and our Airborne Forces are preparing to achieve this goal.
      1. il grand casino
        il grand casino 11 May 2013 11: 34 New
        +4
        Can’t an attack be a form of defense?
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 May 2013 12: 18 New
          0
          Quote: il grand casino
          Can’t an attack be a form of defense?
          Can. Let the enemies be afraid of this ...
        2. ed1968
          ed1968 11 May 2013 13: 34 New
          +1
          naturally it is one of the best remedies
      2. Zubr
        Zubr 11 May 2013 22: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: il grand casino
        Are our people preparing to throw troops somewhere ... An interesting trend
        OURS are preparing to PROTECT RUSSIA, and our Airborne Forces are preparing to achieve this goal.


        YES AND NOT ONLY SYRIA, ACCORDING TO THE CONTRACT BETWEEN THE BRICS COUNTRIES ..
        And THERE are "WAYS OF THE LORD IS NOT CONFESSIONAL", AND OUR MORE THAN ... wink
    2. karbofos
      karbofos 11 May 2013 13: 40 New
      +1
      there are a couple of places in the world where they would be useful
    3. skeptic-
      skeptic- 11 May 2013 16: 19 New
      +5
      Quote: il grand casino
      Are our people preparing to throw troops somewhere ... An interesting trend


      Look at the map of Russia, about the size of the modern army, you will see and it will become clear that the airborne forces, in essence, the state’s life circle, to delay the aggressor, until the main forces approach, cut off the enemy from supplying, vital communications, etc.
  3. mojohed
    mojohed 11 May 2013 10: 39 New
    11
    Airborne Forces is the only maneuverable shield of Russia. And its fighting efficiency leaves no doubt. Glory to the Airborne Forces!
    1. Vladimir-89
      Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 15: 24 New
      -11
      You're not right. In addition to swimming in the fountains, they did not show themselves. Why limit these compounds to wretched BMDs, if they still never jump from planes, but ride like ordinary motorized rifles? Reform them into airmobile brigades needed.
      1. skeptic-
        skeptic- 11 May 2013 16: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: Vladimir-89
        In addition to swimming in the fountains, they did not show themselves.


        Did you miss the flag? In order to write such a thing, at least it is necessary not to read, not to see anything about the airborne forces, except for the yellow, western (NKoshnoy) press. Or you need to be the most ordinary, stupid maimun. I hope you do not belong to them, and therefore, read more, at least, and even better, go to the Army and understand everything.
        1. Vladimir-89
          Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 16: 45 New
          -3
          Fountain army at least once in combat conditions from the sky jumped? No? Well then, what's the point of such a unit? Riding motorized rifles on aluminum tins?
          1. svp67
            svp67 11 May 2013 16: 48 New
            +1
            Quote: Vladimir-89
            Fountain army at least once in combat conditions from the sky jumped? Not? Well then, what's the point of such a unit?
            Everyone had fire extinguishers in their cars, and did EVERYONE often have to use them?
            1. Vladimir-89
              Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 16: 53 New
              -3
              Nevertheless, cars light up more than once every 50 years, but the Airborne Forces successfully fight only with the police on the day of the Airborne Forces. What is their sacred meaning? Explain to me.
              1. svp67
                svp67 11 May 2013 16: 59 New
                +4
                Quote: Vladimir-89
                Cars nonetheless light up more than once every 50 years,
                Yes. And grief to those who do not have a fire extinguisher, but most of them carry it simply with a dead weight. And based on your logic, the Strategic Rocket Forces have never been used in a combat situation, so ATU and them ... Yes, you, my friend, are just a TROL ...
                1. Vladimir-89
                  Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 17: 06 New
                  -1
                  aviamed90 I’m all leading to the fact that a BMD that doesn’t have any analogs should go to the trash, because you don’t need aluminum with roof doors, but you need either airborne Kurganets / Boomerang or buy normal equipment abroad. The same Strikers or Patria (although they probably will not fit in size)
                  Quote: svp67
                  Quote: Vladimir-89
                  Cars nonetheless light up more than once every 50 years,
                  Yes. And grief to those who do not have a fire extinguisher, but most of them carry it simply with a dead weight. And based on your logic, the Strategic Rocket Forces have never been used in a combat situation, so ATU and them ... Yes, you, my friend, are just a TROL ...

                  That is, you should not wait for a story from you why you need the Airborne Forces?
                2. Mauritius
                  Mauritius 11 May 2013 21: 20 New
                  +2
                  The troll is me.
                  "Anadyr" operation (1962) was attended by "strategic missile forces units consisting of a combined 51 missile division (16 launchers and 24 R-14 missiles), the 79th missile regiment of the 29th missile division and the 181st missile regiment of the 50th missile division (24 launchers and 36 R-12 missiles) with attached technical and repair bases, support and maintenance units and units. The nuclear potential of the division in the first launch reached 70 megatons. "
            2. aviamed90
              aviamed90 11 May 2013 16: 59 New
              +5
              I think that Vladimir-89 is somewhat right and even, in many ways, right.
              It is worth reading the Combat Charter of the Airborne Forces and their destination.
              Using paratroopers as a simple infantry is stupid. For this, there are motorized arrows.
              Training a paratrooper is much more complicated and expensive than a simple soldier. And the fact that the Airborne Forces are used for other purposes only means that there are very few combat-ready units in the SV (specifically in the MSV).

              Speaking of jumping. Airborne landing periodically and even with equipment. But quite rarely and not all parts. But this already depends on the BTA (in which the situation is no better than in all the other RF Armed Forces) and the understanding of the leadership of the Armed Forces.
              1. svp67
                svp67 11 May 2013 17: 06 New
                -1
                Quote: aviamed90
                It is worth reading the Combat Charter of the Airborne Forces and their mission.
                Using paratroopers as a simple infantry is stupid. For this, there are motorized arrows.

                Then the counter-question is - where and when were the paratroopers used instead of motorized rifles?
                1. Vladimir-89
                  Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 17: 09 New
                  +4
                  Wherever they were used. Starting from Afghanistan and ending with Chechnya with Georgia.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 11 May 2013 17: 12 New
                    -3
                    Quote: Vladimir-89
                    Wherever they were used. Starting from Afghanistan and ending with Chechnya with Georgia.
                    I REPEAT the question, where and when were airborne units used instead of motorized rifle units?
                    1. Vladimir-89
                      Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 17: 15 New
                      0
                      Wherever they were used.
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 11 May 2013 17: 24 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Vladimir-89
                        Wherever they were used.
                        You Daddy complete ignoramus. At present, the Airborne Forces are our quick reaction forces, that is, the troops that will be primarily deployed and used on the threatened section. Due to their specificity, they are armed more easily than motorized rifles and are therefore much more portable. Well, do not forget about the parts of special forces that also take the form of airborne forces, so the tasks will be found in any conflict or pre-conflict situation.
                      2. Vladimir-89
                        Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 17: 29 New
                        -3
                        So I say, mobility is good, but "from the sky to the slaughter" is bad. We need air transportability and a landing method, but a snive-slaughter BMD is not needed, we need a normal technique.
                      3. svp67
                        svp67 11 May 2013 17: 40 New
                        +1
                        The landing can land in various ways. It is possible that in some conflicts it will be necessary to deploy airborne units from end to end of the country by air and land by parachute in their territory to create maneuverable defense in threatened areas and you want to deprive them of even light armor? But it is not known how much they will have to stay until motorized riflemen and tankers approach. So this technique is needed by our airborne forces, it is simply REQUIRED.
                    2. aviamed90
                      aviamed90 11 May 2013 17: 38 New
                      +2
                      Then I, as an aviator, have a question: do you transfer a lot of them, having the current number of BTA aircraft (even involving transport aircraft of other types of the Air Force and GA) and transport helicopters? It was considered somehow. Result: 1,5-2 pdp with equipment or 1,5 airborne forces without equipment (the estimate is approximate and depends on the types of aircraft). And this is without security parts.

                      Do not believe? Look at the military structure of the BTA, AA SV, TA of the Air Force and the Civil Aviation.
                    3. svp67
                      svp67 11 May 2013 17: 46 New
                      0
                      Quote: aviamed90
                      Result: 1,5-2 pdp with technology
                      In order to SIGNIFICANTLY spoil the "mood" of the enemy and maneuvering, it would be quite difficult, and perhaps for some time, to delay the enemy’s troops. It all depends on tactics ...
                    4. aviamed90
                      aviamed90 11 May 2013 18: 03 New
                      -1
                      svp67

                      Not sure. Depends on the number of troops of the opposing enemy.

                      Suppose the Japs landed in Primorye or in Kamchatka. Can you imagine the scale of such an airborne operation?
                      But the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (according to the doctrine they did not prepare for this)
                      Well, suppose we are transferring our airborne forces in quantity (see above). Where do the SVs come from (TV and SV)? Those. main forces (or reinforcements).
                      It takes a lot of time to pull them up! So the idea of ​​moving troops from one part of the country to another is a bluff! To do this, you must have at least a developed transport infrastructure (at least a railway road or a road (water) network) and, as a maximum, a sufficient quantity of BTA. We have neither one nor the other. Counted such options in Monino - they are not real and not feasible.
                      And throwing people to death without a goal, just to spoil someone's insistence - is not reasonable, pathetic and criminal.

                      In addition, such masses of aviation must be covered by fighter aircraft. Where do you get it so much?

                      Therefore, such tasks, as I outlined, should certainly be solved by SV (of which the cat cried).
                    5. svp67
                      svp67 11 May 2013 18: 14 New
                      +2
                      Quote: aviamed90
                      Where do the CBs come from (TV and CB)? Those. main forces (or reinforcements).
                      Already apparently I will not reveal the secret - from Siberia and the Urals. And not so much time is required for this, since the railway network - TRANSIB and BAM exist and operate, and now there is also a direct highway passing through the whole country for military equipment ...
                    6. aviamed90
                      aviamed90 11 May 2013 18: 17 New
                      0
                      Too shy to ask. How do you transfer them? And how long?
                    7. svp67
                      svp67 11 May 2013 18: 21 New
                      +2
                      Quote: aviamed90
                      Too shy to ask. How do you transfer them?
                      Well, not F16 for sure - military echelons. Have you ever had such a ride? Sorry, but the terms -....... I won’t say they are griffon. They are commensurate with “Russia” and even faster
                    8. aviamed90
                      aviamed90 11 May 2013 18: 53 New
                      0
                      By then, nothing will remain of the guys from the Airborne Forces. And not because they kill - cartridges (shells) simply run out.
                    9. svp67
                      svp67 11 May 2013 19: 24 New
                      0
                      Quote: aviamed90
                      By then, nothing will remain of the guys from the Airborne Forces. And not because they kill - cartridges (shells) simply run out.

                      These quick-witted guys have ended their own way - they will become "on contentment" with the enemy. Why something, but this will not have to be taught. Captured weapons are also weapons.
                    10. Mauritius
                      Mauritius 11 May 2013 21: 22 New
                      +1
                      As last time?
                      One landing regiment? In two hours?
                    11. mehanik27
                      mehanik27 11 May 2013 21: 52 New
                      +1
                      let's be fair, the phrase about which you mention for so many years has been so taken out of context and perverted that it is simply ridiculous to recall it.
                    12. Mauritius
                      Mauritius 11 May 2013 22: 42 New
                      0
                      This phrase was uttered after the failure of the attempt to capture Grozny by the Chechen opposition with the support of Russian tanks in November 1994. When the same task was posed to P.S. Grachev (the result is well known), he began to talk about a phrase taken out of context that he was misunderstood, etc.
                      “Just listen to my statement completely. And you just grabbed out only one phrase from the context of the big speech - and let's exaggerate. It was about the fact that if you fight according to all the rules of military science: with unlimited use of aviation, artillery, missile forces, then the rest the surviving gangs could indeed be destroyed in a short time by one paratrooper regiment. could do it, but then my hands were tied. "
                    13. mehanik27
                      mehanik27 11 May 2013 22: 51 New
                      -1
                      How wonderful, you learned to copy from Pedivikia ... so what, if you take into account the fact that fighting by all rules with aviation, and so on, is it really possible to take Grozny with one regiment ????
                    14. Mauritius
                      Mauritius 12 May 2013 09: 59 New
                      0
                      Truly it was said two thousand years ago: "The army of rams led by a lion is stronger than the army of lions led by a ram."
                    15. Mauritius
                      Mauritius 12 May 2013 10: 09 New
                      +1
                      Common truths and common ones.
                      Truly it was said two thousand years ago: "The army of rams led by a lion is stronger than the army of lions led by a ram!"
                    16. cyclist
                      cyclist 12 May 2013 10: 35 New
                      +1
                      I would choose an army of lions led by a lion laughing
                    17. Mauritius
                      Mauritius 12 May 2013 10: 43 New
                      0
                      Unfortunately, we live in the real world.
      2. svp67
        svp67 11 May 2013 21: 52 New
        +2
        ... explaining to the personnel the need for the rational use of ammunition and other materiel, the skillful use of weapons and military equipment captured from the enemy;
        (Combat charter of the Airborne Forces, paragraph 57)
  4. pavel031976
    pavel031976 11 May 2013 22: 28 New
    0
    the average speed of separation of troops is 60 ... 70 km \ day
  5. aviamed90
    aviamed90 11 May 2013 18: 29 New
    +1
    And you count - how long does it take to transport 1 TP (or SME) on the railway from the areas you specify. You probably joked about the highway across the country? Even if it weren’t our Putin highway, but the autobahn, then what normal commander would spend motor resources on tanks and other equipment? It’s not enough to transfer tanks - they still need to shoot something! Those. must be relocated with rear and support parts.

    And this: the time to concentrate at the loading station, the loading itself, travel time, unloading, a march to the designated lines, combat deployment. This is not counting problems with cars and platforms for equipment. The guys from VOSO have been sufficiently informed on this subject. Ask them.
    This is not a day or even a week.

    In addition, there are simply no roads in Kamchatka. And in Primorye there is only one branch (Khabarovsk-Vladivostok) and its throughput is not very high (since no one has been involved in it since the times of the USSR).

    Why am I writing like this - I myself took part in such calculations, though only for the support of the fighter-bomber regiment (the regiment itself flew according to its plans under its own power). So this is aviation. And with SV everything is much more complicated, especially with TV.

    That's all our quick response troops in fact.
  6. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 18: 48 New
    0
    Listen, you understand the aviator, so you have a general idea of ​​earthly affairs. Already, these plans have been developed and are in safes awaiting a signal. There is everything you are so worried about, moreover, the command responsible for implementing these plans teaches them by heart, with the passing of offsets.
    And on the Far East, the main port is Vanino ... To which the approach is from both BAM and TRANSIB.
    And the main thing now at all exercises is the issue of loading - unloading on the railway transport units is really worked out
  7. aviamed90
    aviamed90 11 May 2013 19: 03 New
    0
    Yes - I'm an aviator. But not only were you trained in combined-arms tactics, operational art of the SV, rear support, etc. They taught well in the Soviet Union. And my idea is not general, but quite concrete. I know what I'm talking about.

    And about the plans ... Do you yourself believe in that? Maybe they were lying, these plans are in safes. But after the defeat arranged by the stool, they lost their practical meaning.
    Just because there are almost no combat forces left. We switched from divisions to brigades (the results of brigade tactical exercises are known). How can one plan something without troops and not knowing what they are capable of?

    And I really once dealt with the planning of the transportation of railway support units on the railway. And these parts, believe me, are not much different from the same in the NE. The same platforms, the same wagons and tanks.

    And in the Far East, not only the port of Vanino. Here is a note: “over 5,6 thousand miles of the coast of the Far East, there are 22 sea trading and 10 fishing ports. The largest of them, with a potential turnover of at least 1 million tons: - Vostochny, Nakhodka, Vladivostok, Posyet, Plastun - in Primorsky Krai; Vanino, De-Kastri - in the Khabarovsk Territory; Kholmsk, Korsakov, Uglegorsk - in Sakhalin; Magadan - in the north and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky - in Kamchatka. Currently, the main problems for the main ports of the Far East are insufficient cargo handling capacity (in in some cases - after their geographical location), lack of port communications and obsolescence of equipment, insufficient capacity of railways (lack of rolling stock, "narrowness" of border crossings, etc.). "

    But who will let you land there? No, really! Only on the coastline! And this is another story - more of a Marine.
  8. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 19: 18 New
    0
    Quote: aviamed90
    And these parts, believe me, are not much different from the same in the NE. The same platform, the same cars and tanks.
    The platforms are those, but not those. You can’t load a tank on every one, and each type of military equipment has its own peculiarities ... In addition, there are still a lot of questions on security, communications, and security. And for that matter, how many samples of equipment you have capable of unloading at unprepared sites?
  9. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 18: 55 New
    +2
    Quote: aviamed90
    In addition, there are simply no roads in Kamchatka.

    And there is already someone on the railway will not ride, only on roads or off-road.
    Quote: aviamed90
    he himself took part in such calculations, though only for the support units of the fighter-bomber regiment

    You did it once, but you have to do it on the ground all the time ... So for them there’s not some kind of "Chinese" letter ...
  10. aviamed90
    aviamed90 11 May 2013 19: 14 New
    0
    In short, I did not convince you that the SBR in modern war is nonsense?

    They are good at local conflicts (not to be confused with regional wars) and special operations (which corresponds to the purpose of the Airborne Forces).
  11. aviamed90
    aviamed90 12 May 2013 11: 00 New
    0
    svp67

    Have you ever tried to drive on BMD through the remote taiga and hills? There, people walk with difficulty.

    "You did it once, but you have to do it on the ground all the time ... So for them there’s not some kind of" Chinese "letter ...".

    So what? Let once. It’s useful, you know, to think seriously about the problem at least once, and not just to pose an impossible and stupid combat task.

    And will you name at least one case in the recent history of the Russian army when the SV division (TD or ISD) was transferred as a whole with support units to the area located at a distance of at least 1000 km? Something I don’t remember. Only Chechnya and Georgia do not give as an example - there was a different story.
  12. skeptic-
    skeptic- 11 May 2013 22: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: aviamed90
    And throwing people to death without a goal, just to spoil someone's insistence - is not reasonable, pathetic and criminal.


    I agree, sorry. In your opinion, it is better to turn in the country, since we do not have super-duper technology, and the one that is is not enough. Anyway, the Nefig had 300 Spartans blocking Thermopylae in front of an enemy of many thousands - they were foolish criminals. It is strange only that the people and History think differently.

    Yes, in general, if our "unreasonable criminal grandfathers" reasoned in this way - neither we, nor Russia, as a state, would simply exist at all.
  13. aviamed90
    aviamed90 12 May 2013 11: 15 New
    0
    skepticism

    Do you think that the slogan “We will throw caps and fill up with corpses” is unusually effective and in demand in the XNUMXst century? Remember the lessons of the Second World War ... Or do people already cost you nothing? Do you think that when thousands of paratroopers are thoughtlessly sacrificed, is there romance? This is not romance; it is a war crime. And according to the law they put him in the best case, and in the worst ...

    If we have to bear losses, then it must be justified by something and have a specific goal and result. For this, there are generals, headquarters, commanders, etc.
  14. skeptic-
    skeptic- 12 May 2013 14: 55 New
    0
    Quote: aviamed90
    If we are to bear losses, then this should be justified by something and have a specific goal and result.


    Naturally. It should not be otherwise. good
  15. Lopatov
    Lopatov 11 May 2013 18: 40 New
    0
    Quote: svp67
    You Daddy complete ignoramus. At present, the Airborne Forces are our quick reaction forces, that is, troops that will be primarily deployed and used on the threatened section.

    And what will they do there?
  16. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 19: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Spade
    And what will they do there?
    And what do you think?
  17. Lopatov
    Lopatov 11 May 2013 19: 17 New
    -2
    Retreat. Most likely, abandoning the technique and dividing into small groups.
  18. Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 19: 22 New
    -4
    Well, actually, they, like the sons of their fatherland, respecting the traditions of their fathers and grandfathers, fall into the cauldron, cause turntables and die heroically. Not in vain of course: they will be awarded posthumously and maybe even a monument will be erected.
  19. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 19: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    respecting the traditions of fathers and grandfathers will fall into the boiler, will cause turntables and die heroically
    Airborne Forces is the kind of troops that are initially taught to fight in complete encirclement. So they don’t take them to the "cauldrons", they themselves consciously go there. But here they will die or remain alive in many respects depends on other types and types of troops.
  20. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 21: 54 New
    0
    The defense of the aerodrome is organized by separate company (platoon) strongholds with anti-tank weapons and air defense facilities located in them in the directions of the likely advancement of the enemy. Removing the front edge of strongholds should exclude the defeat of aircraft on the runway by direct fire from tanks and enemy guns. The gaps between the supporting points are covered with mine-explosive obstacles. Extension routes and reserve deployment lines are being prepared. Part of the units allocated for action from ambushes on the path of the enemy.
    (Combat charter of the Airborne Forces, paragraph 206)
  21. aviamed90
    aviamed90 12 May 2013 11: 21 New
    0
    svp67

    So they say this to you! (on support of other branches and types of troops)

    But about the defense of the airfield. Why did you write this?
  22. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 19: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Retreat. Most likely, abandoning the technique and dividing into small groups.

    To retreat is possible. Not in their ability to delay the "first wave." But in their abilities to restrain it, force it to “stomp”, deprive it of supply and destroy the control system, collect and report intelligence, that is, create all conditions for the introduction of the main forces.
  23. Lopatov
    Lopatov 11 May 2013 19: 50 New
    +1
    The "first wave" they will "hold" a couple of minutes. This is not infantry, but in the "first wave" are not "light" units.
    The "heavy" American motorized infantry will tear up the paratrooper battalion like a tusik warmer. A motorized rifle is designed for butting with three such motorized infantry.
  24. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 20: 20 New
    -3
    Quote: Spade
    The "first wave" they will "hold" a couple of minutes.
    In an open battle, of course, but here they rush from one extreme to the other, airborne units can also harm the enemy by using maneuverable and guerrilla tactics, they will destroy and restrain the enemy in "narrowness", on the barrier lines, deprive the enemy of supplies ... they have their own methods
  25. Lopatov
    Lopatov 11 May 2013 20: 27 New
    +2
    Sorry, why "maneuverable and partisan" if there is no corny infantry? If she can’t hold back an adversary?
  26. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 20: 30 New
    -1
    Quote: Spade
    Sorry, why "maneuverable and partisan" if there is no corny infantry? If she can’t hold back an adversary?

    We are climbing into some kind of "wilds". Or am I missing something? And where did we manage to “lose” the infantry?
  27. Lopatov
    Lopatov 11 May 2013 22: 59 New
    +2
    As where? They cut it. Moreover, unlike the Airborne Forces, at times.

    For example, take Western VO.
    How many infantry are there? Right, five teams. Moreover, one of them is engaged in the protection of facilities in Moscow.
    And how many airborne are there? Correctly. Three divisions.

    In Western VO there are more paratroopers than motorized rifles.
  28. aviamed90
    aviamed90 11 May 2013 17: 30 New
    +2
    svp67

    Various Peacekeeping Forces, Afghanistan, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechnya and, if you remember, Tbilisi (instead of the MVD).

    To this I want to add my opinion: the Airborne Forces are definitely needed, but for this we need to change a lot, starting from the Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation. And in the form as it is now - they are very expensive in terms of losses and in the sense, excuse me, of money.
  29. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 19: 06 New
    0
    Quote: aviamed90
    And in the form as it is now - they are very expensive in terms of losses and in the sense, excuse me, of money.

    Well, forgive the aviation for an even more expensive "toy", so well, to save money, let it sit on the ground too, and there will be no loss for one thing - a double benefit. But who needs such savings?
  30. Lopatov
    Lopatov 11 May 2013 19: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Well, excuse aviation even more expensive "toy",

    But much more effective. By the criterion of "price-quality" is quite satisfactory.
  31. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 19: 30 New
    -2
    Quote: Spade
    By the criterion of "price-quality" is quite satisfactory.
    Do you have accurate calculations? Or is this your personal opinion? And do you have such calculations in relation to the Airborne Forces?
  32. Lopatov
    Lopatov 11 May 2013 19: 59 New
    +1
    My personal opinion. Plus experience. Nevertheless, the Air Force helped us a lot.
  33. aviamed90
    aviamed90 11 May 2013 19: 19 New
    0
    So I’m talking about this: the current strength of the armed forces does not provide the required level of security for the country.

    And the fact that planes are expensive ... So - do you offer to fight on airplanes? This is the specifics of the Air Force. And the airborne forces have their own specifics.
  34. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 19: 37 New
    +1
    Quote: aviamed90
    So I’m talking about this: the current strength of the armed forces does not provide the required level of security for the country.
    Here I agree with you, a lot needs to be changed as soon as possible, but this does not mean that we should "give up". The people entrusted us with their protection and we are obliged to do everything that we can and can, even more ...
    Quote: aviamed90
    And the fact that planes are expensive ... So - do you offer to fight on airplanes? This is the specifics of the Air Force. And the airborne forces have their own specifics.

    I suggest learning to fight with what is and not stopping people who “see the future battlefield” from doing everything to defend their homeland. The Airborne Forces are an expensive kind of troops, the best health guys are selected there, and alas, there are not many of them left, so why shouldn't these guys have the best equipment in the world?
    And the fact that someone has problems with the “fountains” is there, so it’s better to look at how “ordinary” people drive cars in our country - are they better than the “fountains”? Apparently it’s not the airborne forces, but in the state of society as a whole?
  • Rebus
    Rebus 11 May 2013 18: 20 New
    +4
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    You're not right. In addition to swimming in the fountains, they did not show themselves. Why limit these compounds to wretched BMDs, if they still never jump from planes, but ride like ordinary motorized rifles? Reform them into airmobile brigades needed.

    Airborne troops exist in many armies of the world. To talk about the Airborne Forces as having no tasks is at least silly. Tasks of the Airborne Forces:
    Airborne Forces (Airborne Forces) - a type of force intended for combat operations behind enemy lines. Usually they are part of the ground forces, less often - part of the air force (fleet), but can also be an independent branch of the armed forces.

    Designed for landing from the air behind enemy lines or for rapid deployment in geographically remote areas, they are often used as quick reaction forces. The main method of delivery of the Airborne Forces is parachute landing, can also be delivered by helicopter

    In the USA, there is the 18th Airborne Corps of the Ground Forces, which includes several divisions and brigades (for example, the 82nd Airborne Division (Airborne Forces) and the 101st Airborne Assault Division (Airborne Forces)), with a total strength of about 90 thousand people (to compare the Russian Airborne Forces there are only 35 thousand people), and they are not going to liquidate or transform this kind of troops, just like Israel, and moreover they are developing this kind of troops.
    Conclusion: Russian Airborne Forces should be developed and modernized! And all your words are just nonsense ...
    1. Vladimir-89
      Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 18: 26 New
      -5
      To begin with, the Airborne Forces is a purely soviet invention. They were everywhere abandoned after WWII, but the USSR wanted to “have no analogues”.
      Conclusion: Russian Airborne Forces must develop, modernize! And all your words are just nonsense ...

      Oh, nowhere is there such a cat-like as ours - when a whole kind of troops with their aluminum equipment is camped for incomprehensible purposes.
      1. Rebus
        Rebus 11 May 2013 18: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir-89
        They were everywhere abandoned after WWII, but the USSR wanted to “have no analogues”.

        Can you read? I told you that there are also Airborne Forces in the USA and Israel, they have not refused the Airborne Forces, and they will not refuse. Or will you with stupid obstinacy deny this fact? I recommend typing in a search engine
        82nd U.S. Airborne Division and carefully study the issue, and not write any nonsense ... In many countries of the world, they not only do not abandon the airborne troops, but also develop them.
        1. Vladimir-89
          Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 19: 02 New
          -3
          See the difference between a snub-slaughter troop with a whole bunch of amazing equipment and a special forces division? Original.
          1. Rebus
            Rebus 11 May 2013 19: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: Vladimir-89
            See the difference between a snub-slaughter troop with a whole bunch of amazing equipment and a special forces division? Original.

            You and. D. and. about. t or just pretend to be? Once again, I highly recommend that you carefully study the question of the airborne troops in the armies of the world, their use and tactics, the airborne equipment used in these troops, and aluminum armor ...
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 11 May 2013 20: 00 New
              0
              Have you studied it yourself? For example, why are the airborne troops the Americans.
              1. Rebus
                Rebus 11 May 2013 20: 35 New
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                For example, why are the airborne troops the Americans.

                Concerning the 18th US Airborne Corps:
                US military experts believe that the VDK is necessary for a strategic operation during a crisis and should be prepared for action in a critical situation in any region. He arrives in the operation zone by air, sea and land ...
                The main tasks of the VDK are: readiness for emergency transfer to any region of the world; providing comprehensive support to the allies and pro-American regimes by increasing the military presence and demonstration of force, and, if necessary, conducting military operations; protection (protection and defense) and the evacuation of American citizens and objects in the crisis zone. In addition to the main tasks, the corps is entrusted with a number of additional tasks: suppressing the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction in the Third World countries, combating international terrorism and drug trafficking, and carrying out UN peacekeeping missions. Forces 18 of the Airborne Forces, according to the chairman of the committee of chiefs of staff, should be focused on use primarily in areas where the US military presence is limited for political, economic and other reasons. To such regions, the American military-political leadership includes primarily the Near and Middle East, Africa, the zone of Central and South America. At the same time, the use of the corps in any strategically important region for the United States is not ruled out.

                And the airborne units in this corps:
                The division can solve both tactical and operational-strategic tasks. The main ones include: delivering sudden attacks on the enemy from the rear, seizing and destroying command and control posts. Communication centers, airfields, nuclear weapons delivery vehicles, mastering important areas of the terrain, ferry crossings, bridgeheads, prohibiting the enemy from retreating and moving his reserves out of depth, strengthening surrounded by a group of their troops. In addition, 82 airborne units may be involved in special operations, such as capturing political and military leaders, as well as suppressing national liberation movements and maintaining stability in regions and countries of "vital importance" to the United States.
                The division can be parachuted, landing or combined. In the landing area, as a rule, 10-12 zones of discharge and four to six landing zones are assigned to it. Depth of landing (landing) is 10-200 km from the line of contact of the parties. American experts note the readiness of 82 airborne divisions to parachute on any overseas theater of operations after they are transported to operational areas by military transport aircraft. Similar airdrops were carried out at exercises such as Bright Star (in the Middle East), Golden Feznt (in Central America) and others.

                In 2003, the main hostilities in Iraq took place in the west and southeast of the country, where the main forces of the Anglo-American coalition attacked from Jordan and Kuwait. All the attention of the world was riveted to the fierce battles for Basra, Karbala and Fallujah, stubbornly refusing to give up. Against this background, the opening of the northern front, went almost unnoticed by the general public. Although the operation itself was unprecedented. In the early morning of March 26, about 1000 soldiers of the 173rd Airborne Brigade of the US Army, after a five-hour flight, made the most massive landing since the Second World War behind enemy lines.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 11 May 2013 23: 38 New
                  0
                  You see how well enlightened. So, the US Airborne Forces are designed to build up forces in the theater of war, moreover, on either friendly or neutral territories. First, a company of 3-hour readiness, then a daily battalion, then more, more and more. And after 60 days, the Americans have a full-fledged military force capable of waging a local war. US paratroopers provide security and military presence, and with the arrival of all troops they are transferred to the dowries of the “Humvee” and they begin to act as ordinary light infantry units.

                  Quote: Rebus
                  In the early morning of March 26, about 1000 soldiers of the 173rd Airborne Brigade of the US Army, after a five-hour flight, made the most massive landing since the Second World War behind enemy lines.

                  Loudly said. However, it is not entirely true. They landed in Iraqi Kurdistan, the airfield was already controlled by special forces and intelligence. Two battalions were dropped by parachute method, plus they dropped 10 artillery and air defense cargo platforms. This was done only because the airfield was not yet adapted to receive a large number of aircraft. And they flew from Italy.
                  Then they threw people and equipment in a landing way. Why is this "not seen"? Yes, because they did not participate in real hostilities. They provided security for the base and convoys from Turkey and supported the Kurdish armed forces with artillery and intelligence, which were driven by advisers from the Special Operations Forces.
                  1. bask
                    bask 11 May 2013 23: 48 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    You see how well enlightened. So, the US Airborne Forces are designed to build up forces on the theater of operations, and

                    Once again, there is no need to compare the airborne troops of the United States and Russia.
                    Amers have marines. Armed with heavy weapons and their own aircraft.
                    The Airborne Forces in Russia combines the tasks of both marines and paratroopers in the United States.
                    So that it is impossible to compare the Russian and American airborne.
                    The tasks on paper are the same, but it is only on paper.
                  2. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 12 May 2013 00: 12 New
                    +1
                    This is yes, "combine". Because the Marines are even stronger than the infantry reduced.
            2. jumpmaster
              jumpmaster 11 May 2013 22: 22 New
              +1
              Would you go to play shooting games like battlefield! And then already open nonsense write!
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 12 May 2013 00: 13 New
                0
                And from you, I have not heard a single worthwhile thought. Are you afraid to crush everyone with your superintelligence?
          2. Vladimir-89
            Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 20: 22 New
            +1
            All clear with you. Go away.
    2. svp67
      svp67 11 May 2013 19: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      They were everywhere abandoned after WWII

      Rave. Specify the Armed forces in which there are no airborne or airborne troops?
      1. Vladimir-89
        Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 19: 23 New
        -4
        Yes, even the United States or France, or the Bundeswehr. In the scoop, this is a whole kind of troops, but in NATO it’s just a division of paratrooper special forces. There are also airmobile brigades, but this is not the Airborne Forces.
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 May 2013 21: 08 New
          +2
          Quote: Vladimir-89
          Yes, even the United States or France, or the Bundeswehr. In the scoop, this is a whole kind of troops, but in NATO it’s just a division of paratrooper special forces. There are also airmobile brigades, but this is not the Airborne Forces.

          This is at Budesy


          The use of a paratrooper regiment in cooperation with NH-90 or CH-53 helicopters will make it possible, along with classical tasks (landing, airborne transfers, general support), to solve the main thing - to conduct an air-assault (airmobile) operation behind enemy lines, during which the infantry will carry out the capture and retention of the bridgehead, and will also fight in various conditions. Helicopter units will provide fire support, communications, troop deployment and reconnaissance.
          Participating in combined-arms operations, the airmobile brigade will be able to independently conduct combat operations with the support of the Air Force and, in some cases, the Navy. The experience of using army aviation on the territory of Iraq showed that, along with its use in combined-arms operations, direct fire support of the actions of the ground forces gained great importance.
          1. bask
            bask 11 May 2013 21: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            This is at budeso

            And what will happen if this toy ((BMD ,, Wiesel ,,))) bumps into a land mine at 6-8 in t / e-gut within a radius of 100 meters.
            And militants will use landmines 100% more powerful.
            In the Airborne Forces you need armored vehicles with good mine protection.
            1. svp67
              svp67 11 May 2013 21: 42 New
              +2
              Quote: bask
              And what will happen if this toy ((BMD ,, Wiesel ,,))) runs into a land mine in 6-8 in t / e

              But NOTHING will be- excavated, will be ...
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 11 May 2013 21: 58 New
                +1
                The same as under the much more expensive BMD-4M
                1. bask
                  bask 11 May 2013 22: 49 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  The same as under the much more expensive BMD-4M

                  And you say that you do not need heavy armored vehicles in the airborne forces ..
                  Contradict yourself?
                  I say that in the Airborne Forces there should be a closed structure with weapons.
                  1.Modular airborne landing ((((if without it)), floating modular platform. On tracked and wheeled. ((As an example of SEP)))
                  2. Its attack aircraft attack and transport helicopters.
                  3. Heavy armored vehicles. Tanks, BTR-T, engineering equipment.
                  4. Wheel anti-mine armored vehicles Mrap.
                  Everything is air transportable.
                  In 2012, the Pentagon for the first time in nine years of the war sends heavy tanks M1 ,, Abrams ,, to Afghanistan. The Marine Corps will receive 16 tanks.
                  oddly enough, but the amers believe that tanks will allow the Marines to have a son, to fight the Taliban more effectively ..
                  It is the marines, but as you know, in Afghanistan the sea is for thousands of cells. What are they doing there? They carry out combat missions as the most prepared elite part of the armed forces of the United States.
                  The Russian Airborne Forces are the most trained and combat-ready troops in the Russian Army. You only need to equip them with modern weapons.

                2. aviamed90
                  aviamed90 12 May 2013 11: 31 New
                  0
                  basku

                  I especially liked about attack aircraft. Cool!
                3. bask
                  bask 12 May 2013 13: 16 New
                  0
                  Quote: aviamed90
                  I like attack aircraft. Cool!

                  Airborne forces, cool troops. And the equipment should be cool.
                  Because they perform cool tasks, always !!!
          2. jumpmaster
            jumpmaster 11 May 2013 22: 23 New
            0
            Thank you, the answer is cool, added a positive! He laughed heartily !!!
    3. svp67
      svp67 11 May 2013 21: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      Yes, even the United States or France, or the Bundeswehr

      This is france
      The 11-I airborne division (13 thousand people) includes a command and support regiment, six parachute regiments (six 120-mm and eight 81-mm mortars, 24 anti-tank missile launchers "Milan"), reconnaissance (36 anti-aircraft ATGM "Milan" and 36 BRM ERC-90S), artillery (18 mortars of caliber 120 mm) and engineering, as well as airborne rear base (total 102 mortars, 180 PU ATGM, 36 BRM).
      And this is their BRM ERC-90S
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 11 May 2013 22: 08 New
        0
        They have no divisions. One team
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 May 2013 22: 15 New
          +1
          The 11 1st Parachute Division is currently part of the French rapid deployment strike force; it also includes the 6-I armored cavalry division, the 4-I airborne division, the 21-I Alpine division and the 9-I light marine division.

          The 11-I parachute division is divided into two brigades and consists of seven divisions, the number of which corresponds to the battalion: the 1-th parachute regiment of the Marine Corps, the 2-th foreign parachute regiment of the Foreign Legion, the 1-th and 9-th parachute regiments (light infantry), 3, 6, and 8, parachute regiments of the Marine Corps.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 11 May 2013 23: 50 New
            0
            No 11th parachute division. There is "11e brigade parachutiste"
            7 "regiments" the size of a battalion. One landing, one armored cavalry, one of the Foreign Legion is also landing, two marines, one artillery, one engineering, plus a BTA unit.
  • svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 19: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    Oh, nowhere is there such a cat-like as ours - when a whole kind of troops with their aluminum equipment is camped for incomprehensible purposes.

    And not where and no one has such a length of territory that must be able to protect ...
  • svp67
    svp67 11 May 2013 20: 05 New
    +2
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    To begin with, the Airborne Forces is a purely soviet invention.

    As well as the "marine corps" of mattresses, this is also where there is a lot of surprising and what for no one no longer needed equipment. and how much does it cost to prepare one “mariner”, we haven’t even dreamed of such money ... Also, why the hell is this “Corps" needed?
  • jumpmaster
    jumpmaster 11 May 2013 22: 20 New
    0
    Please if not hard! Give an example of countries, some abandoned parachute airborne units after the Second World War!
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 11 May 2013 19: 00 New
    +1
    You would look at this 18th airborne corps, what it is and what functions it performs
  • politruk419
    politruk419 12 May 2013 06: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    In addition to swimming in the fountains, they did not show themselves

    Type in Google "6 companies" and get used to finally thinking before writing nonsense.
  • Merchant
    Merchant 11 May 2013 11: 23 New
    +5
    Well done Shamans !!!
    A worthy receiver of Margelov !!!
    GLORY TO RUSSIA!!!
    Glory Airborne !!!
  • grandfather
    grandfather 11 May 2013 11: 45 New
    +1
    the backbone of the Armed Forces of Russia, it is necessary to make a bone in the throat of the aggressor!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 11 May 2013 12: 04 New
      10
      The backbone of the Russian Armed Forces is the infantry. It is a pity that many, including those with large stars, have completely forgotten about this.
      1. Army1
        Army1 11 May 2013 12: 36 New
        +5
        I agree, many forget about infantry, and modern motorized rifle units in mobility on the battlefield will not yield to paratroopers, the question is different, to quickly get on a plane and fly to the other end of the country and immediately fight.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 11 May 2013 13: 07 New
          +6
          But motorized gunners can firmly accept the blow of regular enemy units.
          And those who can "get on a plane and fly to the other end of the country and immediately fight" will fly away from such a blow as skittles.
          1. mehanik27
            mehanik27 11 May 2013 13: 32 New
            0
            and no one bothers motorized riflemen either to board a plane and fly to the other end of the country ...
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 11 May 2013 14: 02 New
              +2
              But better by rail. Greetings.
              1. mehanik27
                mehanik27 11 May 2013 14: 18 New
                -5
                And you all sorts of blessings)))) But in a pinch, and the infantry can safely fly by plane
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 11 May 2013 14: 32 New
                  +2
                  If you do what Marshal Ogarkov suggested, creating bases for storing property and equipment on possible theater, then the motorized rifle brigade can be transferred faster than the airborne brigade.
                  1. mehanik27
                    mehanik27 11 May 2013 14: 36 New
                    +1
                    Well, they tried to do something similar during the reform, but as always a good idea was brought to fruition. The truth presented it as a breakthrough in the development of the RF Armed Forces
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 11 May 2013 14: 44 New
                      0
                      I would have signed civilian personnel for this. Aunts in VOKhR and men-technicians for service. Cheaper and much more reliable.
                      1. mehanik27
                        mehanik27 11 May 2013 14: 46 New
                        +2
                        there it was .... there were a dozen stunted military men and aunts who were in charge of storage facilities where the equipment was located. Only cheapness and reliability didn’t smell at all there.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 11 May 2013 15: 12 New
                        +1
                        Well I do not know. I was at the GRAU bases, where it worked great.
          2. aviamed90
            aviamed90 11 May 2013 18: 50 New
            +1
            The lack of a sufficient number of military transport vehicles and transport aircraft, the throughput of railway and roads, and much more, are in the way.

            There is a way out, but it is not acceptable for the leadership of the Russian Federation. Everything is very simple - it is necessary to keep in the threatened areas (strategic or operational areas) enough troops to repel 1st strike and ensuring the extension of the main forces, taking into account the mobilization of the armed forces (in this system, in general, a mess (RVK)).

            This amount has long been calculated by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the USSR (RF).

            But we have a reduction (optimization). And you can’t exceed the number of the army more than 1 million people.
          3. svp67
            svp67 11 May 2013 19: 14 New
            +2
            Quote: mehanik27
            and no one bothers motorized riflemen either to board a plane and fly to the other end of the country ...
            They can, where will they go, only it will take more time and money. But the fact that they will be thrown "through the air" undoubtedly, but in the second place. And the first will go to the Airborne Forces
        2. skeptic-
          skeptic- 11 May 2013 16: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          But motorized gunners can firmly accept the blow of regular enemy units.
          And those who can "get on a plane and fly to the other end of the country and immediately fight" will fly away from such a blow as skittles.


          Are they of different nationalities, or is the preparation of the Airborne Forces worse? In the end, in an open confrontation, with modern weapons, no one will stand idle for a long time. Airborne is a maneuver war. Hit - washed off, hit - washed off, etc. etc.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 11 May 2013 18: 42 New
            +1
            Here, hit, washed off. Well, motorized rifles will have to fight for an adult.

            Quote: skeptic
            Are they of different nationalities, or is the preparation of the Airborne Forces worse?

            And you just look at what a reinforced motorized rifle battalion is all about, you will understand.
        3. Army1
          Army1 11 May 2013 19: 43 New
          +2
          Do you think that the airborne forces will go directly against superior enemy forces. The main task is to disorient the enemy troops, sow house among them, deprive mobilization opportunities and much more, but now the tasks have changed a bit, no one is preparing for a big war in Europe, and the level of air defense assets has reached a high level. In the event of a serious war, the landing will solve any problems and may return to the old scheme.
          1. aviamed90
            aviamed90 11 May 2013 22: 53 New
            0
            Army1

            You tell the Chinese (about a large-scale war) - they will be very surprised!

            That's what they row weapons for themselves around the world! Probably because of its natural peacefulness.
        4. svp67
          svp67 11 May 2013 19: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: Spade
          But motorized gunners can firmly accept the blow of regular enemy units.
          And those who can "get on a plane and fly to the other end of the country and immediately fight" will fly away from such a blow as skittles.
          But is it worth it for those who can "get on a plane and flying to the other end of the country, immediately wage a battle" to create a "tough" defense, their element of movement and maneuver will stop - they will die ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 11 May 2013 20: 04 New
            -3
            They should not even board a plane. The most difficult thing that they can be subscribed to is the protection of the lines of communication along which normal troops are deployed.
    2. mehanik27
      mehanik27 11 May 2013 13: 16 New
      -1
      Most simply fap on the Airborne Forces, poorly representing their mission and that it is necessary to raise ground forces in the first place, not Airborne. The very same airborne troops that at the helm just use their position as close to the emperor’s pope, and on this they also knock together the babosik.
      1. Victor
        Victor 11 May 2013 15: 00 New
        +7
        Quote: mehanik27
        The very same airborne troops that at the helm just use their position as close to the emperor’s pope, and on this they also knock together the babosik.

        And you, that a good citizen, personally saw how Shamans cut their loot? I personally remember him as deputy. com 300 parachute regiment in Chisinau. And neither then nor now did this man stain himself with dirt. According to many, Shamans becomes the second Margelov for the Airborne Forces. And you, as I see it, have some kind of complex for the Airborne Forces. You, that someone offended them when ours?
        1. jumpmaster
          jumpmaster 11 May 2013 17: 36 New
          +2
          Victor, thanks !! At least someone supported Shamanov, otherwise I’m looking at a lot of specialists on operational, tactical and strategic use of the airborne forces! And few people know that the collapse of the planned airborne airborne forces began back in the 80s!
          1. Victor
            Victor 11 May 2013 20: 46 New
            +4
            Quote: jumpmaster
            And few people know that the collapse of the planned airborne airborne forces began in the 80s!

            Good day, Jump master. I used to argue, argue, something ignoramuses, when articles on the Airborne Forces were written, but then I realized that this is a conversation between the blind and the deaf. For twenty years I gave the Airborne Forces, I know many officers and generals of the Airborne Forces personally, and then all sorts of people begin to pour mud on well-deserved people and teach us what the Airborne Forces need and what not. Tired of these know-it-alls, like a bitter radish. Previously, there was a site as a site, professional conversations took place, and now almost all old-timers have left or just read. It's a shame for the site.
            1. jumpmaster
              jumpmaster 11 May 2013 22: 29 New
              +1
              Himself from the same pack! Sam hollowed, begged, summarize the experience, pass! No one needs horseradish, I agree, now the site’s floor is damn theorists and specialists!
              1. mehanik27
                mehanik27 11 May 2013 22: 32 New
                -1
                As you can’t go to the site, then some narrow-profile specialists who hammer, beg and generalize .... what in real life is all not thank God ????
                1. jumpmaster
                  jumpmaster 11 May 2013 23: 10 New
                  +1
                  And this is not a question for me how a bonded man had a higher command over himself!
                  Do you know how many quit after the first Chechnya? Every second, it’s good that you can teach something to your own, if you don’t interfere, you won’t believe it, INTERVENT, PRESS, who needs it, how many random, distant people decide what to teach the same soldier.
                  A good friend from the operational brigade of VV went on a business trip to Chechnya, I say, take at least some notes, for now, let’s pull it up a bit like that, but he don’t know shit. (Captain, company commander, it would seem, that what a combined arms battle should know) Fuck you! We don’t know why we don’t need everything, and then - yes, I was wrong, I would have had your notes for six months, and worked out a little bit in the field with the soldiers. And notes from Afghanistan have been written for themselves since 86!
                  And in real life, damn you have to be a politician and not a military one, because someone is making a career, and someone is just fighting!
                  1. mehanik27
                    mehanik27 11 May 2013 23: 25 New
                    0
                    I know and believe. Vot and Shamanov later became not a military, but a politician.
        2. mehanik27
          mehanik27 11 May 2013 21: 21 New
          0
          Nobody offended me, do not worry .... And at the helm not only Shamans ...
    3. svp67
      svp67 11 May 2013 19: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Spade
      The backbone of the Russian Armed Forces is the infantry
      And no one does not forget this, everything and everything is only for her darling and they work, more precisely, for her success. But do not forget that the Airborne Forces are also “winged” infantry ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 11 May 2013 20: 06 New
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        And no one does not forget this, everything and everything is only for her darling and they work, or rather for her success.

        Right Taking funds for the next toys, the best recruits. Three BMD-4M are two brand new tanks. The infantry from this in ecstasy.
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 11 May 2013 22: 13 New
          +1
          Now more fashion is driving, it’s convenient for many to order an expensive little useful one. About a year and a half ago I tried to make a cargo discharge system such as shovels, armored shields, so that the unit that arrived at a height could be strengthened without carrying heavy loads, but this is not cool - a trench with an armored guard. Let the army play enough adventures, then the partisans will come down.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 11 May 2013 23: 05 New
            0
            The armor plates are not serious. Here is a good thing: http://www.cpstent.com/catalog/8/

            Found, covered with soil, even in the mountains you can create normal engineering structures. And then, unlike the bags, he poured it out, threw it to another place and installed it again.
            1. Volkhov
              Volkhov 12 May 2013 13: 14 New
              0
              You do not understand - bulk containers need to be filled up with something, in the illustration - with a front-end loader. I had in mind a different situation - the company lightly reached a height without roads, there is no loader, but competitors will come soon - that is, you have to quickly dig into hard ground and get mortars from somewhere, etc. All this - crowbars, trench charges, containers with ammunition must be dumped from above, but so that it does not slip to the enemy. If people dig in and are covered by an armored shield when shooting, then it will be difficult to defeat them, but on a bare slope and with a minimum of reserves - it will be much easier.
              It's just that the site has a lot of fiction - for example, plans to go to the war by rail at express speed. In reality, the stations will look like Belaya Kalitva on May 8, and the bridges will fall to the bottom, like Belgrade, electric locomotives will even go deadlock due to a collapse of the network, and the locomotive, unlike a steam locomotive, is poorly repaired - it’s easy to weld a hole in the boiler, and a hole in diesel - at the factory. In the Great Patriotic War, only 16000 locomotives were delivered from the United States - so many will not send diesel locomotives.
              The troops immersed in wagons in the war will be isolated like a royal train somewhere in the forest, they will not be able to fight from the car, and die as many as they like under bombardment.
              The real way out - mobile sets for heavy trucks to switch to the rail - KAMAZ will drag 3 ... 5 cars, but this must be designed and done beforehand, and this is not at all cool - some kind of wheels, pneumatic adapters ...
        2. Victor
          Victor 12 May 2013 18: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          Taking funds for the next toys, the best recruits.


          The recruits are the same for all, but the education of the recruits is actually different, especially the upbringing of the tradition and the level of combat training. We do not live in an isolated society, we often encounter motorized riflemen and tankers at training grounds and see how much the level of combat training, motivation of the Airborne Guards, Marines and Special Forces is higher than that of the land soldiers. It came to the ridiculous, I personally had to teach tank lieutenants how to work with the electronic ballistic computer. And what is the artillery preparation of the attack, the combatants of the ground forces are generally unaware, although it is they who must steer the attached and supporting artillery. As regards the Airborne Forces, these tasks are constantly being worked out, not to mention their native tactics. Hence the training of fighters a few goals higher. And from here, unfortunately, the temptation of the country's leadership to use the Airborne Forces wherever possible, although the army component should work. We, the paratroopers, also do not like to be a gag everywhere, so pull your officers and fighters to our level.
  • Apollo
    Apollo 11 May 2013 11: 50 New
    +6
    quote- “The BMD-4M new combat vehicle meets all these indicators,” Vladimir Shamanov believes. “Of course, it is not perfect, but it has tremendous potential for further improvement and modernization of both the base chassis and the weapon module,” he concluded.

    that's what BMD-4M is capable of good

    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 11 May 2013 12: 03 New
      +3
      "BMD-4M makes a" candle ", wring out and swim." BMD-1,2,3, equipment based on them and BMP-3 are also capable of this.

      It would be worthwhile to show the process of landing from this vehicle. That’s really instructive
      1. Army1
        Army1 11 May 2013 19: 51 New
        +2
        The car is good, but the armor ............................................. ..............................
  • Army1
    Army1 11 May 2013 12: 15 New
    +3
    The Airborne Forces is a unique type of troops, they in the minority can destroy the enemy in the rear, in addition to aircraft, helicopter units, reconnaissance UAVs are also necessary, and of course contract soldiers will be our happiness.
  • MAG
    MAG 11 May 2013 12: 19 New
    +1
    It is necessary to develop land forces with all due respect to the Airborne Forces. At my place, a guy with an airborne troops came to serve in Kamyshin in a light brigade. From his story, they were taught only landing from a helicopter and occupying all-round defense and EVERYTHING! And at the same time, the officers scared them about the war with Turkey, as if they fought if the soldiers didn’t know anything and only spent 1 months on guard for 5 month of service.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 11 May 2013 12: 52 New
      +4
      In Kamyshin, not the Airborne Forces. The 56th Air Assault Brigade is part of the Ground Forces
      1. MAG
        MAG 11 May 2013 13: 15 New
        0
        I’ll ask on Monday)))
        1. MAG
          MAG 11 May 2013 13: 19 New
          0
          in contact asked as part of the airborne forces but subordinate to the southern military district
          1. mehanik27
            mehanik27 11 May 2013 13: 32 New
            +1
            We now have a contactee a storehouse of knowledge and the ultimate truth ???
            1. MAG
              MAG 11 May 2013 13: 56 New
              0
              In contact, I asked a person about whom I wrote.
              1. mehanik27
                mehanik27 11 May 2013 14: 09 New
                +4
                No offense, what I would not do is rely on the opinions and knowledge of a modern conscript soldier until I personally feel confident in him. Now even the name of a unit is sometimes remembered only because letters are sent here or parcels are sent.
                1. MAG
                  MAG 11 May 2013 14: 24 New
                  +1
                  What insults he had before the army, the trainee was an intelligent guy. In addition to the machine gun, he didn’t shoot at any raid events; they didn’t go through engineering; radio stations didn’t study such a part of the elite in general
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 11 May 2013 14: 01 New
            +2
            This does not happen. They are part of the SV, most likely subordinate, as before, to the 49th Army.
            The Airborne Forces is solely responsible for personnel and material support.

            Moreover, apparently, this applies after the sleeves. It was planned to deliver them “Lynxes,” but the Shamans are not the kind of person who will allow for increased protection of personnel at the expense of imported equipment. So for now, like this:
            1. MAG
              MAG 11 May 2013 14: 07 New
              0
              According to his stories there is a real number of Hussars but everything is old and exhausted
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 11 May 2013 14: 15 New
                0
                And what is the "Hussar" better? They were sent there from the 22nd brigade of the Special Forces
                1. MAG
                  MAG 11 May 2013 14: 18 New
                  +2
                  except for the hatch for the shooter than))))
                  1. Vladimir-89
                    Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 17: 17 New
                    -2
                    Well, you tell me too - the engine is imported there. From Toyota like.
            2. bask
              bask 11 May 2013 19: 16 New
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              richem apparently, this applies to the sleeves. It was planned to put them "Lynx", but the Shamans are not the same

              The Airborne Forces are needed not only ,, light ,,, amphibious armored vehicles, but also heavy.
              In SUSHA, the Marines are fighting not only on amphibians. They have M1A2 tanks,, Abrams,, MRAP, used helicopters and much more.
              Airborne tags should be primarily the forces of rapid deployment!
              Which in preparation and equipment should surpass the infantry. With the exception of special units ((GRU) and marines .. Airborne units should be used both for: overcoming the prepared defense of the enemy, and for conducting landing operations.
              To perform these tasks, the Airborne Forces should have their own armored, artillery, aviation, sniper units, MRAP, auxiliary and combat engineer armored vehicles.
              Full autonomy, until the approach of the main forces. !!!
              1. aviamed90
                aviamed90 11 May 2013 19: 35 New
                +2
                basku

                Why airborne heavy equipment? To lose all your mobility benefits?

                And do not confuse the US Marine Corps with the Airborne. These are different types of troops and with different tasks. Compare better our airborne with the American (and they also have them):
                "The US Airborne Forces is a highly mobile elite military unit of the US Army, which includes military formations, units and units of lightly armed infantry, designed to deliver airborne rear enemy lines and conduct active hostilities in its rear zone.
                The limit on the warheads of US VAT can only be the number and carrying capacity of military transport aircraft, ensuring their delivery to the combat mission area. "

                The rest is generally nonsense. There’s nothing to comment on. You’ll launch the Airborne Forces into space.
                1. bask
                  bask 11 May 2013 20: 02 New
                  +1
                  Quote: aviamed90
                  American (and they also have them):
                  "The United States Airborne Forces is a highly mobile elite military unit of the US Army that includes military units, units and

                  You do not compare it, paratroopers sysha and airborne forces in Russia.
                  Over the past 30 years, the Airborne Forces have just fulfilled the tasks that marines are in the USA.
                  Therefore, the armament must be appropriate to the tasks set. ((Storming Grozny)). 94-96,99-2000.
                  Bredyatin, you’re talking about it. If you have something to say on the subject, write. Not yet.


                  1. aviamed90
                    aviamed90 11 May 2013 20: 35 New
                    -1
                    basku

                    Well, you are a strategist!

                    What tasks did our Airborne Forces accomplish like the US Marines?

                    And what does the storming of Grozny have to do with it? Is this a task for the Airborne Forces?

                    And don't be so nervous! Nobody offends your airborne forces.
                    1. bask
                      bask 11 May 2013 21: 14 New
                      +2
                      Quote: aviamed90
                      What tasks did our Airborne Forces accomplish like the US Marines?


                      A warrior in Afghanistan, 1979-89. There, what were they doing (((landing on BMD)))?
                      Quote: aviamed90
                      And what does the storming of Grozny have to do with it? Is this a task for the Airborne Forces?

                      Yes, despite the fact that the Airborne Forces during the assault played a key role. And whether or not they are questions to the General Staff of Russia.
                      The basic model of BMD for the airborne forces should be like that of the Shredskoy SEP.
                      SEP is ,, Modular Tactical Platform, “Tracked and Wheeled. With unification up to 80%. Modularity in the design, the central part of the hull, docking with the base chassis. Allows you to transform SEP into a tractor, ambulance, 10 infantry armored personnel carriers, missile launcher, command post, mine clearing vehicle, radar, reconnaissance vehicle, chemical reconnaissance vehicle, communications center, electronic warfare machine, self-propelled mortar. Modules can be replaced in the troops. SEP weight is 17,5 tons, 8/8 wheeled maximum weight is up to 24 tons. Load capacity is 6 tons. The internal volume is 13 cubic meters. The length and width of the SEP are the same for the 6/6 wheeled and the caterpillar - 5,9 and 2,7 meters. Height - 1,9 for tracks and 2 meters for wheels.
                      Here is such an example should be BMD for the Airborne Forces. Defense, for mine and ballistic protection not lower than STNAG-3
                      1. mehanik27
                        mehanik27 11 May 2013 21: 56 New
                        +2
                        At what storm of Grozny did the airborne forces play a decisive role ???
              2. Lopatov
                Lopatov 11 May 2013 19: 55 New
                +2
                That's exactly what no heavy equipment is needed. They need to return the helicopter regiment seized under Gorbachev.
                1. bask
                  bask 11 May 2013 20: 43 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  That's exactly what no heavy equipment is needed.

                  A fight on what ?????
                  During the storming of cities and mountains. ((Storming of Grozny))). The Airborne Forces and Marines played a key role.
                  And all without the cover of heavy armored vehicles. ((It's good that the Marines had their own tanks)) Now they’ve taken away.
                  without heavy armored vehicles and attack aircraft, modern asymmetric warfare is indispensable. (((there will be big losses)))
                  1. mehanik27
                    mehanik27 11 May 2013 21: 33 New
                    +3
                    And let's not take the example of Grozny. Fortunately for the Airborne Forces as a whole and for us in particular during the chaos and collapse in the early 90s, there was preserved at least partially combat training in almost all parts, if not in all. And this is not because they are paratroopers, and due to the fact that they have always been a separate state in the state. Although, if you face the truth, the same marines often had cases when companies were manned by simple sailors before being sent to Chechnya, that they had seen the machine once sworn . And in the end they fought no worse than VD
                    1. bask
                      bask 11 May 2013 23: 36 New
                      0
                      Quote: mehanik27
                      And let's not take the example of Grozny.

                      And let's be.
                      As the most illustrative example.
                      In Israel, all paratrooper units are equipped with heavy, armored vehicles. The exception is the special forces brigade, zahanit,
                      During the 2006 war in Lebanon, Hezbollah fighters opened heavy fire at buildings captured by assault groups of paratroopers. ((As in the storming of Grozny)))
                      But the Israeli paratroopers had BTR-T ,, Ahzarit and MBT. ,, Merkava ,, And they well studied the experience of the Soviet army during the storming of cities in the Second World War.
                      During street battles in, WWII, the Soviet T-34s moving at high speed broke through the line of defense. Then they drove ((in reverse, many such episodes in old Soviet films)) to the store, the arch, using them as a shelter. Opening fire from guns and machine guns, destroying enemy firing points. Assault groups, under cover of tank fire, successfully stormed the enemy strongholds and broke into the defense.
                      1. mehanik27
                        mehanik27 11 May 2013 23: 53 New
                        0
                        It would seem, what does Israel have to do with it ????
                      2. bask
                        bask 12 May 2013 00: 12 New
                        0
                        Quote: mehanik27
                        It would seem, what does Israel have to do with it?

                        Because they fight both with number and skill. And everyone killed in the IDF is already an emergency.
                        And despite the fact that they studied the Soviet experience of the Great Patriotic War storming cities and urep-districts well. ((Read my post.))
                        Paratroopers stalked, armed with armored personnel carriers - ,, Ahzarit ,, and MBT ,, Merkava ,,
                      3. mehanik27
                        mehanik27 12 May 2013 00: 20 New
                        0
                        so maybe it’s necessary to go to the IDF website and discuss there ???? Here it seems to be talking about the Russian Airborne Forces ...
                      4. bask
                        bask 12 May 2013 06: 43 New
                        +1
                        Quote: mehanik27
                        ???? Here, it seems, they are talking about the Russian Airborne Forces ..

                        That's it about the airborne.
                        What would the General Staff and the Airborne Forces, first of all, study, experience the Second World War, Afghanistan, Chechnya 1,2 and draw conclusions. What tasks should the Airborne Forces perform at the modern level in Russia and abroad.
                        If as of now ((elite highly mobile infantry))) the weapons and tactics-charter of the airborne forces should be changed. Under modern tasks of the airborne forces.
                        And most importantly, there should be armored vehicles and aviation to solve the widest range of tasks facing the airborne forces.
                        Not in vain in the West and in the East, fear and respect the Airborne Force !!!!
                        With the adoption of only BMD-4M and BTR ,, Shell, "these issues cannot be resolved. (((At the rate of rearmament of 7 pieces a year))) it's just a mockery of the airborne forces.
                        The experience of other countries will not hurt, but it should be revised and applied to Russian conditions.
            3. Lopatov
              Lopatov 11 May 2013 22: 12 New
              +1
              How on what? They were originally created as airmobile. What heavy equipment is there? I’m saying that they had a Mi-8, Mi-24 helicopter regiment in their staff in the brigade.
              1. mehanik27
                mehanik27 11 May 2013 22: 22 New
                -1
                Why do we need helicopters now ???? We have more innovative equipment
                1. svp67
                  svp67 11 May 2013 22: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: mehanik27
                  Why do we need helicopters now ???? We have more innovative equipment

                  We can say we adopt foreign experience
                2. svp67
                  svp67 11 May 2013 22: 31 New
                  0
                  Yes and donkeys are better than that.
                3. svp67
                  svp67 11 May 2013 22: 35 New
                  0
                  By the way, by the way, amers do not always manage to find a common language with the materiel

                  Our guys are still more solid
                4. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 11 May 2013 23: 56 New
                  0
                  This is generally a very sad story about the air assault brigades, regiments and battalions of the ground forces.
                  Gorbachev began to kill them, and our valiant “nobody but us” finished off. Probably because they understood their necessity and their shortness.
              2. aviamed90
                aviamed90 11 May 2013 22: 42 New
                0
                Lopatov

                You are confusing something. There have never been a single helicopter in the state of Oshbr. Moreover, such brigades were part of the SV, and not the Airborne Forces.
                Units and units of army aviation were only given to them for the duration of the combat mission.
                AA AA (ASV) was periodically included in the Air Force (with operational subordination to the commander of the military districts, i.e., SV), then in the SV (in direct subordination of the commanders of military districts).

                In any case, she performed tasks in the interests of the SV (tactical assault landing on enemy territory). In this case, no equipment (neither light nor heavy) was transported. Since the Mi-8 is not intended for this. Here in the Mi-26 transport, you can still stuff something like a UAZ. And the Mi-24 is a combat support helicopter, and not a transport one.

                And the Airborne Forces performs the tasks of landing in the operational-tactical depth by means of the VTA.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 12 May 2013 00: 03 New
                  +1
                  I don’t confuse anything. Each brigade has a helicopter regiment. And the destruction of the Soviet airborne assault (read airmobile) brigades began with the fact that they had not yet formed army regiments from them. What completely discounted the idea. Well, and then completely rotted. On UAZ transplanted.
            4. aviamed90
              aviamed90 11 May 2013 22: 28 New
              0
              basku

              Do you propose to include all attack aircraft and tank forces in the Airborne Forces?
              1. bask
                bask 11 May 2013 23: 05 New
                0
                Quote: aviamed90
                Do aviation and tank troops be included in the Airborne Forces?

                The division of the Airborne Forces tank battalion is enough.
            5. Lopatov
              Lopatov 12 May 2013 00: 38 New
              0
              Quote: bask
              A fight on what ?????

              Light weapons.

              Quote: bask
              When storming cities

              What did they forget there? Each has its own purpose. At these helicopter tactical landings. What heavy equipment can there be? How much will the Mi-8 pull?
              For example, during the Second Chechen unit, the Kamyshin airborne assault landing was landed on the border with Georgia, which they perfectly blocked.
              1. bask
                bask 12 May 2013 07: 02 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                What did they forget there? Each has its own purpose. These have helicopter tactical assault forces. What there

                You are talking again about the American paratroopers.
                Tasks performed by the Russian Airborne Forces are much wider than tactical helicopter landing.
                This is the troops of the RESERVE, supreme commander.
                Russian Airborne Forces perform the same tasks as the Marine Corps in Syria.
                Therefore, weapons must be appropriate.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 12 May 2013 09: 25 New
                  +2
                  Well no. It is here that we are talking about the airborne assault brigades of the ground forces: the 11th Specialized Brigade Brigade in Ulan-Ude, the 56th Brigade Brigade in Kamyshin, the 83rd Brigade Brigade in Ussuriysk, and the 100th Brigade Brigade in Abakan.
                  This is not the Airborne. These are brigades intended for helicopter tactical landings in the interests of the SV.
                2. bask
                  bask 12 May 2013 13: 45 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  but no. It is here that we are talking about the airborne assault brigades of the ground forces:

                  BShB, it is necessary to revive the structure of the ground forces.
                  I don’t argue that the armament should be light, all the armament of the brigades should be repartitioned by helicopters.
                  Armament: armored personnel carriers in various versions, 120-mm towed mortars, anti-tank systems, control vehicles, reconnaissance, target targets, medical vehicles, engineering, repair ..
            6. aviamed90
              aviamed90 12 May 2013 12: 19 New
              0
              Lopatov

              By the way, here is the calculated data on the capabilities of aviation to transfer equipment and personnel (some military aircraft may be outdated, according to new data, the technical data are for the landing landing method, for paratroopers - the parachute method):

              An-124 - 188 paratroopers in full gear or
              8-10 BMD-1 or
              6-8 BMP-1 or
              8-10 BRDM or
              6-8 BTR-60pb or
              4-5 ZSU-23-4m or
              4-5 PT-76 or
              4-6 SU-86 or
              2 T-62 or
              4-6 BM-21 or
              8-10 Gas-66-02 or
              6-8 ZIL-130 or
              3-4 Mi-8 or
              3-4 Mi-24

              IL-76m (md) - 145 people (for M, 1 deck), 225 people (for MD, 2 decks) or
              126 paratroopers in full gear or
              3 BMD-1 or
              2 BMP-1 or
              3 BRDM-2 or
              2 BTR-60pb or
              1 ZSU-23-4m or
              1 PT-76 or
              1 Su-86 or
              1 T-62 or
              landing of equipment on the P-16 platform with the ISS-5-1400 + 10 paratroopers or
              landing of 2 P-16 platforms with the ISS-5-1400 or
              landing of 3 platforms PRSM-925 with OKS-540 or
              landing of 4 P-7 platforms with the ISS-5-1280 or
              landing of 2 platforms PRSM-915 with OKS-540 + 20 paratroopers

              An-22 - 150 paratroopers or
              5 BMD-1or
              3 BMP-1 or
              5 BRDM-2 or
              3 BTR-60pb or
              2 ZSU-23-4m or
              3 PT-76 or
              3 SU-86 or
              1 T-62 or
              5 GAZ-66-02 or
              4 ZIL-130 or
              2 Mi-8t or
              2 Mi-24 or
              landing of 2 P-16 platforms with the ISS-1400 + 26 paratroopers or
              4 P-7 platforms with KDS + 26 paratroopers or
              4 platforms PRS-915 + 26 paratroopers or
              4 platforms PGS-500 + 150 paratroopers or
              4 P-7 platforms with the ISS-5-1280 + 26 paratroopers

              An-72 - 57 paratroopers in full gear or
              68 people

              An-12bk (PPS) - 58 paratroopers in full gear or
              2 BMD-1 or
              1 BMP-1 or
              2 BRDM-2 or
              1 BTR-80pb or
              1 PT-76 or
              1 SU-86 or
              2 GAZ-6 or
              1 ZIL-130
              1. aviamed90
                aviamed90 12 May 2013 12: 22 New
                0
                By helicopters (data on equipment are not available - it depends on the weight and dimensions of the cargo compartment, landing by landing method):

                Mi-8 - 24 paratroopers in full gear

                Mi-24 - 8 paratroopers in full gear

                Mi-26 - 82 paratroopers in full gear
              2. Lopatov
                Lopatov 12 May 2013 15: 40 New
                0
                Thank. Saved so as not to look.
            7. aviamed90
              aviamed90 12 May 2013 16: 46 New
              0
              Amendment:

              An-124 440 paratroopers or 880 soldiers. Landing landing method.
  • pavel031976
    pavel031976 11 May 2013 22: 52 New
    +2
    the brigade is subordinate to the command of the district’s troops ... it has nothing to do with the airborne forces, however, like any other airborne division in every district ...
    1. bask
      bask 12 May 2013 08: 21 New
      0
      United States marine units are constantly located in strategic areas of the world.
      Ready for direct intervention-war in other countries.
      In connection with such tasks, the US equips its marines with the most modern types of small arms, artillery, missile and armored weapons.
      The division is the largest tactical unit of the Marine Corps, with a staff of 19000.
      The armament of the division: 70 MBT, M1A1, Abrams ,, 12, 203,2 mm self-propelled howitzers M110, 16, 155-mm self-propelled howitzers M109, 80, towed howitzers M198, 72-a, 81- mm mortar M29A1, 81-n 60-mm mortar M-224, 144 ATGM ,, TOU ,,, 216 ATGM ,, Dragon ,,, 208 floating armored personnel carriers LAV, 3000 armored vehicles for various purposes.
      Aviation: Marine Corps and is designed to support its ground forces during landing and during operations on the coast.
      In service are 1100 combat aircraft and helicopters. Forming three aviation wings, groups, squadrons. The number of personnel of the air wing is 17 thousand people, the number of combat aircraft and helicopters is 400 units. There may be more. The armament of the air wing: attack aircraft FA-18CD ,, Hornet ,,, attack aircraft AV-8B ,, Harrier II ,, short / vertical take-off and landing, MV-22s, A-6E ,, Intruder ,, A-4M ,, Skyhawk ,, AV-8A ,, Harier ,, F-
      4J, F-18, Hornet, fuel
      tankers KS-130. Transport helicopters CH-53E, combat helicopters AH-1.
      And before .. (a lot)) .. what other modern technology.
      ABOUT SUCH STRUCTURE AND NOMENCLATURE OF WEAPONS SHOULD BE AT OUR AIRCRAFT !!!!
      to perform combat missions in any part of the WORLD!
  • dld35057
    dld35057 11 May 2013 12: 34 New
    +3
    need to hurry with rearmament. and it’s not known who will come after the GDP, we will not survive another hunchback.
  • pinecone
    pinecone 11 May 2013 12: 48 New
    +5
    I can’t get used to the official use of the name without a middle name. "Colonel General Vladimir Shamanov." It is impossible to imagine that at one time they could print in the newspaper "Marshal Rodion Malinovsky," or "Andrei Grechko." Or first name, middle name (at least the initials) and last name, or just a military rank and last name. As wound twenty-odd years ago, "Ariel Sharon, Boris Yeltsin, Bill Clinton," and so on. And so it goes so far. Taught and implemented. And then there’s this boorish poking at every step- "buy, connect, take credit", etc.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 11 May 2013 13: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: il grand casino
    Can’t an attack be a form of defense?

    The attack is one of the types of combined arms combat. We can say the main one, because the goal of defense is to exhaust the enemy, inflict the maximum possible losses on him, and create the prerequisites for an offensive. Without an offensive, there is no victory in battle.
    1. ed1968
      ed1968 11 May 2013 13: 38 New
      0
      if the enemy himself does not retreat
  • individual
    individual 11 May 2013 14: 03 New
    +2
    Glory to the Airborne Forces! Glory to the commander Vladimir Shamanov!
    The main thing is not to interfere with figures such as Serdyukov. In that confrontation, Shamans could have “burned out,” but he was even stronger and ready to work for the good of Russia and its armed forces.
    1. mehanik27
      mehanik27 11 May 2013 14: 39 New
      -6
      So Shamanov generally didn’t interfere with Serdyukov, he even helped most likely.
      1. Victor
        Victor 11 May 2013 15: 04 New
        +3
        Quote: mehanik27
        So Shamanov generally didn’t interfere with Serdyukov, he even helped most likely.

        Well, where does this awareness come from? All the same, someone from our offended you.
        1. mehanik27
          mehanik27 11 May 2013 21: 49 New
          0
          Yes, no one offended me, so sometimes you cause laughter ... And what do you have, the facts that Shamanov actively opposed Serdyukov ???? The facts alone, that for various mischief Serdyukov threatened to say a lot with his finger (this is when he tried to catch investigators on particularly important cases of the UPC, and he wrote official important papers to the prosecutor’s office to the prosecutor general, and his son-in-law’s affairs), and he quickly drowned Serdyukov for much less.
          At the same time, I personally have a completely normal attitude towards Shamanov, I just unlike nobody idealize anyone anywhere. He, as a competent military leader, turned out to be very out of place in Chechnya and did a lot to quickly end the war, and it’s a pity that he was also restrained by politicians ..And for the fact that he supported Budanov openly, a separate plus sign in his karma, although of course he could more actively defend him
  • Tarpon
    Tarpon 11 May 2013 14: 06 New
    +3
    Shamans - well done! He wholeheartedly supports the Airborne Forces!
    No need to contrast the Airborne Forces and ground forces, each has its own tasks.
    It is necessary to develop and modernize them in parallel.
  • a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 11 May 2013 15: 03 New
    -7
    Cumulative sapper shovels will arrive soon for the Airborne Forces
    1. heavytank
      heavytank 11 May 2013 16: 03 New
      -3
      Is it for cutting your head?
  • Vladimir-89
    Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 15: 05 New
    0
    As a patriot of Russia, I have a logical question: why spend money and re-equip something that has no tasks and that for 50 years it has never (!) Been used for its intended purpose? Maybe it's better to put them on something useful?
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 May 2013 17: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir-89
      As a patriot of Russia, I have a logical question: why spend money and re-equip something that has no tasks and that for 50 years it has never (!) Been used for its intended purpose? Maybe it's better to put them on something useful?

      Then answer, it's about whom?
      The first to land on December 24 1979. at the Bagram airfield, in 50 km north of Kabul, part of the 105-th Guards Airborne Division.
      1. Vladimir-89
        Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 17: 56 New
        -1
        What am I talking about - air mobility is needed, but there is no airborne forces "from the sky for slaughter".
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 May 2013 18: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: Vladimir-89
          What am I talking about - air mobility is needed, but there is no airborne forces "from the sky for slaughter".
          By the time the airfield in Bagram was already in our hands, if it weren’t for this, it would have had to be captured with the help of paratroopers. In addition, parachute landings are used in the initial stages of amphibious landings, without the parachute method it is not conceivable to use SPN ...
    2. jumpmaster
      jumpmaster 11 May 2013 17: 43 New
      +2
      Here are people like you who “IMPROVED” the Airborne Forces for the good of the USSR, and then RUSSIA! And now, why the heck they are needed! Thank you dear!
  • heavytank
    heavytank 11 May 2013 16: 12 New
    0
    the car is good. and I don’t need to book additionally either. it is necessary to establish a turret or anti-measures from damage to RPGs and families of anti-tank shells. Only electronics will be improved and the machine will be SUPER. The machine should:
    to see at night
    range of view 4-6 km,
    the possibility of a launcher for UAVs,
    and ATGM.
    Then the paratrooper will have everything in one. The machine must be universal.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 11 May 2013 16: 18 New
    0
    The main thing is that our airborne troops are afraid all over the world.
    And if they are afraid, then they respect.
    It is unclear why only Comrade Shamanov in the conversation about rearmament speaks only about BMD-4M, Tigers, KAMAZ and Shells? VDVshnikami need SPG Octopus. Need a towed artillery mount caliber 152 mm in a lightweight version. Well and the main thing is air defense. Paratroopers at the moment from the air enemy fight off 23-mm installations and MANPADS. We need the same "Shell-Airborne" based on the BMD-4.
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 11 May 2013 18: 22 New
      0
      All over the world ??? Fear???
      1. jumpmaster
        jumpmaster 11 May 2013 22: 39 New
        +1
        But you won’t believe it, but in the days of the USSR there were 7 divisions, like all Europe and Turkey had a bone! Yes, I agree to raise all the divisions to the wing, it was simply not realistic, there were no such opportunities, but the fact itself was sobering. Therefore, in 1978, the reinforcement of all mechanized regiments of the Bundeswehr was completely completed, increasing firepower by 2,5 times.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 11 May 2013 16: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir-89
    As a patriot of Russia, I have a logical question: why spend money and re-equip something that has no tasks and that for 50 years it has never (!) Been used for its intended purpose? Maybe it's better to put them on something useful?

    Why not used. And in the conflict on 08.08.08, they were the first to enter Abkhazia instead of marines on landing ships from Novorossiysk. And how did the prestige of the Airborne Forces and Russia rise after our battalion unexpectedly appeared in Yugoslav airfield in 1999. You can give a couple more examples. By their very existence they terrify the enemy.
    1. Vladimir-89
      Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 16: 47 New
      -2
      Air-fountain troops should actually be airborne, otherwise their equipment lacking analogs is not needed.
      1. jumpmaster
        jumpmaster 11 May 2013 17: 48 New
        0
        Have at least respect for the fallen, naming normally the kind of troops! And you personally, what kind of troops have served, that you have fountains across!
        1. Vladimir-89
          Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 18: 28 New
          0
          I respect them, but I must admit that their kind of troops has no tasks.
          1. svp67
            svp67 11 May 2013 18: 32 New
            +2
            Quote: Vladimir-89
            I respect them, but I must admit that their kind of troops has no tasks.

            The task of ALL Armed Forces, including the Airborne Forces -
            The Armed Forces are intended to repel aggression directed against the Russian Federation, to armedly protect the integrity and inviolability of the territory of the Russian Federation, and also to carry out tasks in accordance with international treaties of the Russian Federation.
            1. Vladimir-89
              Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 18: 35 New
              +2
              I’ll ask you another race - at least once in 50 years they were used as intended?
              1. svp67
                svp67 11 May 2013 19: 01 New
                0
                Quote: Vladimir-89
                I’ll ask you another race - at least once in 50 years they were used as intended?

                Do you think that they were not used
                for the armed defense of the integrity and inviolability of the territory of the Russian Federation, as well as for the performance of tasks in accordance with international treaties of the Russian Federation.
                1. Vladimir-89
                  Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 19: 04 New
                  +1
                  Nope, have never been used for 50 years. There are no tasks.
                  1. Mauritius
                    Mauritius 11 May 2013 22: 13 New
                    +2
                    Operation Danube.
                    At 2 a.m. on August 21, 1968, advanced units of the 7th Airborne Division landed at the Ruzyne airport in Prague. They blocked the main objects of the airfield, where the Soviet An-12s began to land with troops and military equipment. The capture of the airfield was carried out using a deceitful maneuver: a Soviet passenger plane approaching the airfield requested an emergency landing due to alleged damage on board. After permission and landing, the paratroopers from the aircraft captured the airport control tower and ensured the landing of the landing aircraft.
                    By 4:30 a.m. on August 21, the Central Committee building was surrounded by Soviet troops and armored vehicles, Soviet paratroopers burst into the building and arrested those present. Dubcek and other members of the Central Committee spent several hours at gunpoint of Soviet machine guns.

                    At 5:10 a.m. on August 21, an reconnaissance company of the 350th Guards Airborne Regiment and a separate reconnaissance company of the 103rd Airborne Division landed. Within 10 minutes they captured the airfields of Turany and Namesti, after which a hasty landing of the main forces began. According to eyewitnesses, transport aircraft landed at airfields one after another. The landing jumped, not waiting for a complete stop. By the end of the runway, the plane was already empty and immediately gained momentum for a new take-off. With minimal intervals, other planes with landing and military equipment began to arrive here. Then, the paratroopers with their military equipment and in the captured civilian vehicles went deep into the country.

                    By 9:00 a.m. on August 21 in Brno, paratroopers blocked all roads, bridges, city exits, radio and television buildings, a telegraph office, the main post office, administrative buildings of the city and region, a printing house, train stations, as well as headquarters of military units and military enterprises industry. People’s commanders were asked to stay calm and keep order. Four hours after the landing of the first groups of paratroopers, the most important objects of Prague and Brno were under the control of the Allied forces. The main efforts of the paratroopers were aimed at the seizure of the buildings of the Central Committee of the CPC, the government, the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff, as well as the building of the radio station and television.

                    So, to solve such problems, the Airborne Forces were intended in Soviet times. Now there are no such tasks, but nobody wants to abandon such wonderful troops, and various justifications are being invented.
                    1. aviamed90
                      aviamed90 11 May 2013 22: 23 New
                      +1
                      Mauritius

                      You are mistaken. You cite the classic police operation against Czechoslovakia as an example. This is not the task of the Airborne Forces. Not at all!
                      1. Mauritius
                        Mauritius 12 May 2013 10: 07 New
                        0
                        Police - a system of public services and bodies for the protection of public order, the fight against crime, etc. (true truth). The police operation is aimed at restoring public order.
                        Replacing the political leadership in another country is not a police operation, but a military operation.
                      2. aviamed90
                        aviamed90 12 May 2013 13: 56 New
                        0
                        Mauritius

                        A police operation is not in the sense that it is being carried out by the police. And in the sense that it is being conducted by the army by police means for a specific purpose (in this case, the replacement of the regime in the country).
                      3. Mauritius
                        Mauritius 12 May 2013 21: 26 New
                        0
                        Police methods - detention, interrogation, search, escort, cordon, etc.
                        Your level is clear. Success in online fights.
  • aviamed90
    aviamed90 11 May 2013 17: 18 New
    0
    VohaAhovu

    That's it - instead of the marines! And not for the intended purpose.

    And in Yugoslavia there was a landing? After all, they were marching!
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 May 2013 18: 40 New
      0
      Quote: aviamed90
      And in Yugoslavia there was a landing? After all, they were marching!
      In Yugoslavia, they used what was at hand and there such a property as the high mobility of the airborne units was used to the full ...
      1. Vladimir-89
        Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 18: 44 New
        +2
        am such a property as high mobility of the airborne units

        What are you talking about? They did not land there. Even BMD was not there.
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 May 2013 18: 59 New
          0
          Quote: Vladimir-89
          What are you talking about?

          Do we know each other? Or are we starting to be rude?

          Quote: Vladimir-89
          Even BMD was not there.

          The mobility of the airborne forces does not rest on BMD alone. BMD is just a tool. Everything else is training, and readiness precisely for such highly maneuverable actions
        2. aviamed90
          aviamed90 11 May 2013 19: 29 New
          0
          Well yes. They did not land there.

          But the exercises near Ulyanovsk have been held regularly lately. And with the dropout technique. True, these are just teachings.
        3. jumpmaster
          jumpmaster 11 May 2013 22: 42 New
          0
          And here you are wrong, RUSBAT had a BMD-2 in its arsenal in Yugoslavia! Look at least a photo online!
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 11 May 2013 19: 00 New
        +1
        Are new armored personnel carriers suddenly at hand?
        1. Bogdan01
          Bogdan01 17 October 2013 22: 15 New
          0
          APCs, BMD, a pair of Urals, shishigi and several UAZs, and one Cherokee was taken from pindosov, especially for the battalion commander))
  • horoh
    horoh 11 May 2013 16: 46 New
    0
    Shamanov well done, for this he deeply bowed and respected. But, I still do not understand, will our KMZ be loaded with orders, or what?
  • myzia09
    myzia09 11 May 2013 17: 57 New
    +2
    The Airborne Forces have always selected one of the best. With our vast territory, this is a necessary component of the Armed Forces. My opinion is not to spare money, to give everything that is necessary. Although he himself did not serve in the Airborne Forces, GLORY of the Airborne Forces !!!
  • a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 11 May 2013 18: 18 New
    -3
    In the Air Force, crews with both parachute and riflemen are not familiar by hearsay. But he asked for advice from Prof. Airborne on knife fighting. He answered that when I heard something about this fencing. So it turns out that the Airborne Forces are show off like GAZPROM.
    1. Vladimir-89
      Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 18: 21 New
      -5
      Well, in the fountains to dominate and pester passers-by on the day of VEDEVE who will be?
      1. rsnv
        rsnv 11 May 2013 18: 32 New
        +4
        Well, you're talking about fountains and fountains. Fountains do not climb into the fountains and not all. Airborne Honored Troops with Glorious History!
      2. jumpmaster
        jumpmaster 11 May 2013 22: 01 New
        +3
        Well, not all the same right warriors like YOU! It is only the Airborne Forces that has the privilege of swimming in fountains, or fighting in an environment, twelve against one hundred and twenty! You’ve got some kind of anger at paratroopers, you yourself weren’t redeemed for an hour in the fountain on the second of August, otherwise the role of fountains will simply not let you sleep! Or maybe elementary envy? If you want to swim in the fountain, yes it doesn’t work!
        Well, if seriously - then NONE IN ONE ARMY OF THE WORLD DO NOT THINK, NOT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO REDUCE THE PARAJUTISTS DIVISIONS (wrote the name in general), AND CONSTANTLY BUILD POTENTIAL, CONSTANTLY IMEORIES. BECAUSE ONE OF THE HIGHEST MOBILE BIRTHS IS A TEAM, ABLE TO SOLVE A VERY WIDE CIRCLE OF TASKS AND QUESTIONS, AS ON THE OPERATING - TACTICAL SO AND ON THE STRATEGIC DIRECTION!
        It is not the fault of the commander and units of the Airborne Forces that this bacchanalia began in Afghanistan, when the motorized rifle units did not fully cope with their tasks, and for conducting combined-arms operations, they more and more attracted the units of the Airborne Forces! This was already then the level of training of motorized rifle (1982 -87) left much to be desired.
        Similarly, in Chechnya, in a nightmare, the rear services and airborne assurance services could not have dreamed that some or some wise men from Gen. Headquarters and from the Headquarters, the groupings will be ordered to form columns of rear and escort and reinforcements from the Airborne Forces units, with THEIR "DURAL" boxes that will be worn according to tasks that are not characteristic of them and will fully develop motor resources. Do you know how the Airborne Forces called BMD-shku? - A disposable condom, designed for landing and the transfer, and a short fire contact! When conducting an operation behind enemy lines, then the car was blown up and the personnel, if there was still someone left, started to perform secondary tasks, behind enemy lines and so on. etc.
  • waisson
    waisson 11 May 2013 19: 06 New
    +1
    here I look here to crush some toad they didn’t serve in the Airborne Forces and they call them the Airborne Forces. Airborne Forces is for the first time the GUARDS and the subordinates are directly subordinate to the Commander-in-Chief. Airborne Forces is blood sweat bruises in difficult conditions, this is heroism, courage, courage, who can be compared with the Airborne Forces deprived of the Marine Corps.
    1. Vladimir-89
      Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 19: 24 New
      +1
      It’s a pity that there are no problems, and so everything is right.
    2. aviamed90
      aviamed90 11 May 2013 19: 26 New
      +2
      waisson

      Nobody infringes your courage.
      You do not know the organizational structure of the Airborne Forces. Read ... Read, at least Wikipedia.
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 11 May 2013 19: 29 New
      +1
      “Toad crushes” from the fact that instead of supplying equipment based on the armed forces to motorized infantry, they buy expensive disposable toys for the airborne forces.
    4. Break chance
      Break chance 11 May 2013 19: 30 New
      +1
      Since the tasks were not written, therefore, the Airborne Forces is an overcoming for the sake of ... nothing. If someone has time - please, but not for my taxes.
      1. Vladimir-89
        Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 19: 37 New
        -4
        But what about the glorious traditions of fathers and grandfathers? What about rewarding posthumously, getting into cauldrons and ambushes, riding on armor, swimming in fountains, fights with cops?
  • a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 11 May 2013 19: 39 New
    +1
    Dear WAISSON! There are search engines on the network, check back periodically. MABUTA-suit jumping for special forces believe me there are such. I personally wore MABUTA for the particularly warm regions of the former USSR.
    The kit included: - Panama hb, - Hb jacket with a turn-down collar, - Hb pants with cuffs at the bottom, - Boots with high berets with lace up. And God forbid you to boast of breaking bricks on the skull of brains.
  • regsSSSR
    regsSSSR 11 May 2013 20: 08 New
    +1
    any advance is a big plus! trampling on the spot and empty chatter must be inappropriately this is a sure minus! good cars nekamu esho not interfere, God forbid that all zaplonirovannoe turned out good luck!
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 11 May 2013 20: 29 New
      0
      That's just where this forward
  • a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 11 May 2013 20: 14 New
    +1
    They say that a paratrooper’s point can open three rows of thorns before the dome opens! I agree at the very heart almost stopped! But the bayonet is better lol
    1. jumpmaster
      jumpmaster 11 May 2013 22: 45 New
      +1
      You have the wrong information, it’s not about triggering when you open the parachute! And in what you are landing, as well as with what, and for what!
  • Alex
    Alex 11 May 2013 20: 19 New
    +1
    Well, tasks for the Airborne Forces have been given to you lately. Thank God there hasn’t been large-scale military operations. Of course, in counter-terrorist operations and regional conflicts it’s really difficult to pick up tasks for such troops. However, Margelov created the Airborne Forces based on the experience of the Second World War, where there are tasks for landing there was more than enough. We still maintain our army not only for police events.
    1. Vladimir-89
      Vladimir-89 11 May 2013 20: 25 New
      0
      However, Margelov created the Airborne Forces based on the experience of the Second World War.

      The whole point. Said it suddenly and bluntly.
    2. mehanik27
      mehanik27 11 May 2013 22: 14 New
      +2
      I all thought that the Airborne Forces began to be created before the war on the basis of the 11th Infantry Division in the 30s, which then became a 201st Airborne Brigade. But it turns out that Vasily Filippovich only began to create the Airborne Forces after the Second World War ... Vyazbmoy fought to death and died then ???
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 12 May 2013 00: 05 New
        0
        Very good question.
  • cyclist
    cyclist 11 May 2013 20: 25 New
    +1
    Shamans take care of their subordinates !! Good !! smile
  • lucidlook
    lucidlook 11 May 2013 21: 01 New
    +2
    In accordance with GPV-2020, more than one thousand BMD-2020M were to be received by the Airborne Forces by 4.

    According to General Shamanov, the Russian Airborne Forces are equipped with modern equipment and weapons by only 4%, so GPV-2020 provides 90-100% of the renewal of the fleet and arsenal of troops.

    Colonel General Shamanov said that "if they offer me more advanced weapons that will finally begin the process of rearmament, I will refuse the BMD-4M. But knowing the capabilities of our defense industry and this machine, I will say: there is no alternative to the BMD-4M."


    It seems that they will take it more from hopelessness than from some of its mega-capabilities. However, it is not so important.
    1. cyclist
      cyclist 11 May 2013 21: 20 New
      +2
      and what mega opportunities can there be? this machine is suitable for carrying out its tasks as part of the airborne units and, in general, it is not worth demanding superpowers from it
      1. lucidlook
        lucidlook 12 May 2013 02: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: cyclist
        and what mega opportunities can there be?

        I, for example, radically correct those flaws that were identified during the operation of the BMD-2 and 3. In particular, poor booking. The BMD-4M, of course, has a slightly better level of protection, but still it remains bulletproof. The armament was delivered more powerful - well, of course, but it in itself pulled weight, plus ammunition. And every ton of airborne forces is worth its weight in gold. It turned out something like PT-76 in a new way. Not clear, in general.
        1. cyclist
          cyclist 12 May 2013 09: 46 New
          +1
          in principle, to improve protection, you can add hinged blocks, but these are already constructive solutions, for example, with parachute landing, we use one set, for ground operations we put a more protected version
  • Mauritius
    Mauritius 11 May 2013 21: 13 New
    +1
    [quote = svp67] [quote = Vladimir-89] The Strategic Missile Forces have never been used in a combat situation, so ATU and them ... Yes, you, Batenka, just a TROL ... [/ quote]

    The troll is me.
    "Anadyr" operation (1962) was attended by "strategic missile forces units consisting of a combined 51 missile division (16 launchers and 24 R-14 missiles), the 79th missile regiment of the 29th missile division and the 181st missile regiment of the 50th missile division (24 launchers and 36 R-12 missiles) with attached technical and repair bases, support and maintenance units and units. The nuclear potential of the division in the first launch reached 70 megatons. "
  • aviamed90
    aviamed90 11 May 2013 22: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Spade
    That's exactly what no heavy equipment is needed. They need to return the helicopter regiment seized under Gorbachev.



    What kind of shelf are you talking about?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 May 2013 09: 27 New
      +1
      I’m about the four airborne assault brigades of the ground forces. When they were created during the USSR, their staff included transport and combat helicopter regiments (20 Mi-24, 40 Mi-8 and Mi-6). That is, roughly they could carry out the simultaneous landing of an air assault battalion, reinforced by artillery.
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 12 May 2013 13: 34 New
        +1
        See helicopter landing capabilities above.

        Can you imagine how many they need to land a battalion?

        And it is supposed to use the oshdbr, mainly as a DRG (6-8 people) with known tasks, and only secondarily (under certain conditions) as a tactical landing. They also had (operational) subordination before the GRU of the General Staff of the Armed Forces.

        I have been in the Air Force since 1986, but for the first time I hear about such helicopter regiments. Maybe you mean operational subordination, and not organizational structure? Or am I missing something? ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 May 2013 15: 58 New
          0
          Let's count. 1 battalion of 478 people is 20 Mi-8. Given all the transportable weapons and property of 40 helicopters, they will do it with a bang.

          Quote: aviamed90
          And it is supposed to use odshbr mainly as DRG (6-8 people) with known tasks

          Not on your nelly. For this there were brigades of special forces. A fairly powerful air assault battalions with a mortar battery, anti-tank battery (the infantry has no more than a platoon), a grenade platoon, an anti-aircraft platoon, only as tactical landings. First of all, in the mountains and forests. And the GRU, they never obeyed.
          Quote: aviamed90
          I have been in the Air Force since 1986, but for the first time I hear about such helicopter regiments. Maybe you mean operational subordination, and not organizational structure? Or am I missing something? ...

          Missed. Initially, they were created in such a way, but already at the stage of formation the helicopter regiments were taken away from them, instead they started insane experiments with the introduction of one battalion on the BMD, the introduction of self-propelled batteries, and so on. other
  • KononAV
    KononAV 11 May 2013 22: 57 New
    0
    [quote = Mauritius] [quote = svp67] [quote = Vladimir-89] The Strategic Missile Forces have never been used in a combat situation, so ATU and them ... Yes, you, Batenka, just a TROL ... [/ quote]

    The troll is me.
    "Anadyr" operation (1962) was attended by "strategic missile forces units consisting of a combined 51 missile division (16 launchers and 24 R-14 missiles), the 79th missile regiment of the 29th missile division and the 181st missile regiment of the 50th missile division (24 launchers and 36 R-12 missiles) with attached technical and repair bases, support and service units. The nuclear potential of the division in the first launch reached 70 megatons. "[/ quote]


    And why should the Strategic Missile Forces in general go into battle they are not taught this. I served in the Strategic Missile Forces the truth in connection, the troops are extremely far from military operations. And in combat training classes, it feels like they are taught how to die faster, how can you talk silently and immediately.
  • Alex
    Alex 12 May 2013 03: 40 New
    0
    Quote: mehanik27
    .And then it turns out that Vasily Filippovich only after the Second World War began to create the Airborne Forces ... and who was there near Vyazbma who fought to death and died ???

    It is about Margelov’s creation of a modern airborne structure using airborne armored vehicles.
    1. mehanik27
      mehanik27 12 May 2013 12: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Ralex
      However, Margelov created the Airborne Forces based on the experience of the Second World War, where there were more than enough tasks for the landing.
      .You yourself said that he created the Airborne Forces after the Second World War, and now you tell me that it was he who created the structure only .... they started talking
  • Chukcha
    Chukcha 12 May 2013 04: 11 New
    +1
    Well, yes, the war is on the way, what are the deadlines? The faster the better.
  • aviamed90
    aviamed90 12 May 2013 13: 46 New
    0
    The fact that the carnage will be - it does not raise questions. Question - WHERE, WHEN and with WHOM?

    And now you can only analyze the situation, make assumptions and prepare.
  • Seraph
    Seraph 12 May 2013 13: 50 New
    0
    The team-headquarters of the game, not otherwise.
    What for generals to pay money? Put our readers in the general staff - they will ruin everything
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 12 May 2013 14: 03 New
      +1
      Seraphim

      Do you think that generals do not hang on forums between cuts in the military budget (with the goal of plagiarizing the right decisions for the success of military reform)? Now such generals !!! Ooooooo !! Maybe they stole the idea of ​​military reform at some forum and ... What if they hang? Or maybe not the generals, but the remaining smerdyukovskie girls who make decisions. Who knows?...

      In addition, there are people on the forum who have a decent military education. Is it bad? On the contrary, this clarifies many issues.
      1. mehanik27
        mehanik27 12 May 2013 14: 26 New
        0
        I strongly doubt that generals hang on forums, girls may hang, but not at all like this.
  • alert_timka
    alert_timka 12 May 2013 14: 06 New
    +1
    Has anyone seen the latest BMD live? In my opinion, it is smaller than the BMP and I had a question: is the turret module with a pair of 100mm and 30mm cannon on such a machine appropriate? And how did they manage to cram the ammunition of both guns, the crew of the car and the landing there? Thanks in advance to everyone who answers my question.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 12 May 2013 14: 08 New
      0
      Question on the topic. But, unfortunately, I am not an expert.
    2. wax
      wax 13 May 2013 00: 56 New
      0
      Shamanov saw and even personally drove her to the factory site:
      http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/28715/