Military Review

Ukraine: where is the salvation? ..

171
Ukraine: where is the salvation? ..



The events of recent months indicate that, after long hesitations and rushing, Ukraine has nevertheless made its choice in favor of European integration. At the end of March, the mission of the International Monetary Fund, headed by Christopher Jarvis, visited 2013 in Kiev. It was during this meeting that it was supposed to finally put an end to the new agreement, thanks to which the Ukrainian government wanted to postpone payments on foreign debt for at least a year. A debt, we recall, is substantial: 9 billion dollars, of which 6 billion must be returned to the IMF this year. In order to get a new loan, Ukraine must agree to raise prices for utilities and gas for the population, tighten the budget policy, and also release the exchange rate. Such requirements of the Fund are caused by the confidence of its specialists that an increase in tariffs by 20 percent will make it possible to free up about 0,2 percent of GDP. At the same time, it was not entirely clear how the Ukrainian authorities were going to fulfill these requirements, because as early as February of this year, the head of state V.Yanukovych stated that he did not intend to raise tariffs even against the demands of international lenders. Nevertheless, a definite agreement was reached: at the very end of the mission, the head of the international mission, K. Jarvis, stated that the parties had reached an agreement. In the course of the discussions held with representatives of the local authorities, it was possible to agree on economic policy, which the Fund is prepared to support within the framework of the Stand-By agreements. Jarvis also stated that the mission is returning to Washington for a final decision.

International lenders have given some useful advice that the Ukrainian government will have to adhere to: first of all, we are talking about reducing the current account deficit and the fiscal deficit, because only in this way can you lay the initial foundations for economic growth.

The country's debt has been increasing every year, and by the end of last year it has already reached about 60 billion dollars (and this is almost twice the amount of all gold and foreign exchange reserves accumulated in Ukraine). Experts predict that in the near future, the state’s need for external financing may amount to about 40 percent of GDP.

Once in a practically stalemate, Kiev had no choice but to reject stubbornness and more restrainedly comment on the actions and conditions of the IMF. Such a change of mood is quite predictable, because the Ukrainian government understood (or was convinced) that it would not be able to do without external assistance. And besides the IMF, help is theoretically possible only on the part of Russia, that is, in practice it will not exist, because between countries there remain unresolved extremely painful questions for the Ukrainian side regarding the cost of gas and its transit through Ukrainian territory. Moreover, Moscow agrees to give money only in exchange for the entry of Ukraine into the Customs Union, which the Ukrainian authorities avoid in every possible way.

Thus, the Ukrainian government has set priorities and has even begun to make the first cautious statements about the possibility of fulfilling the conditions set by the International Monetary Fund. In particular, recently the press reported that the authorities consider the fund’s requirements to equalize domestic gas prices to be quite fair. The same applies to the increase in utility rates. Most likely, the changes will be introduced gradually and differentially, but in any case ordinary people will suffer. It should also be noted that Kiev is still not losing hope for certain indulgences from the Fund. It is quite possible that the success of the agreements was determined by certain concessions, which international lenders made.

However, unfortunately, the uncertainty with foreign loans is not the only misfortune of Ukraine. There is also such an interesting phenomenon in the country as the Verkhovna Rada of the seventh convocation, which cannot begin to work normally, despite the fact that much time has passed since the election. Of course, no one said that it would be easy for novice deputies to work. The mere fact that the ultra-right Freedom passed to the Parliament guaranteed that normal work was not expected. The most pessimistic predictions came true: from the very first day the doors were knocked out and noses were broken. Over time, it became obvious that such a mess would become a common affair for parliamentarians.

"Svobodovtsy" united with other opposition forces, and already jointly blocked the work of the Rada. The most varied events became the reason for such radical actions: both a protest against the so-called “button-pushing” (a new-fledged term coined specifically on this issue) and against the accusations of Tymoshenko for contract murder. True, the opposition blockaded the first blockade. Indeed, then it became necessary to support the country's course towards European integration. Just for the sake of European integration, they stepped over their principles and sacrificed the interests of their idol. When all the basic laws on European integration were adopted, the work of the Rada was again blocked, and the leader of Freedom, O. Tyagnibok, declared that the parliament was incapable. However, the population already and without such statements did not have any special illusions about the viability of the parliament. At the same time, it is impossible to clearly understand what the opposition is really trying to achieve: either dissolving the Rada, or simply wants to scare ...

In this situation, it is easy to see that the country is slowly but surely falling apart. An analysis of what is happening in Ukraine proves that the situation is developing according to the worst scenario. The opposition and the ruling party are trying to cause each other maximum harm by all available and inaccessible ways, obviously not realizing that without popular support, their opposition has no meaning and political perspective. But the main thing is that the opposing forces do not simply enter into heated debates on various internal external issues, but by their ill-considered actions break the country's political system, which is already not distinguished by a high level of development.

At the same time, it is almost impossible to understand who is most guilty of what is happening in Ukraine at the moment. On the one hand, the opposition does not give rest, which does not even try to compromise with the authorities on any important issue. But on the other hand, it is not entirely clear what led to such a pronounced radicalization of the opposition after the elections? Over time, it becomes obvious that the radicalization of the positions of the opposition forces occurred precisely because of the weak and inconsistent actions of Viktor Yanukovych and his team.

For all their inaction in the opposition, not stupid people gathered at all, and they are well aware that the president is trying to sit on two chairs, trying to delay an important decision as long as possible. In addition, the conditions for reaching the Association Agreement between the Ukrainian state and the European Union are so tough that the mere fulfillment of all the requirements may threaten the very existence of Ukraine. Seeing that the authorities by their actions lead the country to disintegration, the opposition begins to put pressure on them. As for international relations, Russia has now stopped pressure on Yanukovych, carrying out a regrouping of forces. And the construction of the Yamal-Europe 2 gas pipeline is a clear proof that Russian gas can be supplied to Europe and bypass Ukraine, and in case of adopting a course for European integration, the Ukrainian gas transmission system will simply die. Europe also does not exert pressure, but do not forget that the deadline for making a decision comes in May, that is ... now.

In this situation, the opposition, feeling the powerlessness of the government, increases the pressure on the government. At the same time, it doesn’t matter what exactly this power does: it’s bad to go to Europe, because there are forces in the country that can do it more quickly and efficiently, to move towards Russia is also bad, because it’s unprofitable for the government itself. Thus, whatever one may say, the president, with his own actions, is doing everything so that the pressure of the opposition forces on power only increases. And this will continue until the head of state signs the Association Agreement. As soon as this is done (that is, when the power in the country will actually be transferred to European structures), it will be completely disregarded.

In such a situation, Yanukovych has no choice but to appoint early elections to the Ukrainian parliament, try to delay the decision on the country's foreign policy vector for at least another year, or even better, opt for the Eurasian direction.

Early elections can be held only if the president succeeds in strengthening the vertical of power and enlist the support of his voters by fulfilling all the election promises of his party. If this does not happen, the situation in the country will only worsen, and the holding of early elections will finally undermine the political system of the state.

If we talk about the vector of the foreign policy movement, its consequences are quite obvious. In case of signing the Association Agreement with the European Union, the country will experience the final collapse of the industry, and in the best case, the consolidation of the status of the EU breadbasket to Ukraine. The industry of Ukraine is simply not needed by the European Union: In Europe, due to the economic crisis, far more promising enterprises are closing down, and the energy-intensive Ukrainian industry will become an unbearable burden for the European Union. In turn, the destruction of industry will cause a budget crisis that could cause civil conflict due to opposition from the eastern and western regions of the country.

If the Ukrainian government takes a course on the Eurasian Union, then initially, of course, Yanukovych will be forced to experience serious pressure not only within the state, but also outside it. But at the same time, Ukrainian industry, which is the basis of the national economy, will be preserved. In turn, the stability of the economy will help strengthen the geopolitical and economic security of Ukraine in Europe.

What to choose? The Ukrainian government can not decide what is more important. But in this whole situation, one thing remains obvious: in a particular Union, it will be much easier for Ukraine to advance its own interests in the international arena than on its own, because over time, the European Union will sign an agreement on cooperation with the Customs Union. economic relations. But if the Ukrainian authorities continue to push for a decision, then such a state as Ukraine can cease to exist ...

Materials used:
http://www.km.ru/spetsproekty/2013/04/24/publitsistika/709587-raspil-ukrainy
http://ubr.ua/finances/macroeconomics-ukraine/spasenie-kipra-povysilo-shansy-ukrainy-na-evrobondy-i-sdelku-s-mvf-218149
http://www.km.ru/economics/2013/04/10/mezhdunarodnyi-valyutnyi-fond-mvf/708193-da-zdravstvuet-mvf-tamozhennyi-soyuz-p
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 13 May 2013 08: 21 New
    +4
    They will start again (the leaders of Ukraine) to break the hat in front of the mericatos.
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 13 May 2013 10: 28 New
      17
      Take 10 minutes and listen to the speech of an Odessa student at YOU TUBE "Ukraine has talents-5 Dmitry Masyuchenko (4th live broadcast, 10th edition, 11 May 2013). He said everything there. You can't say it better. The audience listened to him standing."
      1. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 13 May 2013 13: 21 New
        +7
        thanks for the link listened to the presentation - very impressed
      2. karbofos
        karbofos 13 May 2013 14: 32 New
        +5
        Thanks Captain Vrungel. Strong!!! good
      3. SlavakharitonoV
        SlavakharitonoV 13 May 2013 15: 01 New
        +6
        Yes, it's all the same. If the EU comes out of the recession and admits Ukraine there, then 85-90% of 100 --- the centuries-old history of close cultural relations will end irrevocably. And people with different political views will say differently. Russia, they say, has lost its "province", while others, yes, Ukraine made the choice itself, the third "pressed on them," the fourth Russia, they say, is to blame for the "s" ------------------ ------- THIS WILL NOT HAVE ANY VALUE ALREADY ......
      4. pav-pon1972
        pav-pon1972 13 May 2013 16: 18 New
        +7
        Yes, Dima well done !!! Thanks to his mom and grandfather for the upbringing !!!! Honestly, boldly !!!
    2. domokl
      domokl 13 May 2013 11: 13 New
      +7
      Quote: aszzz888
      They will start again (the leaders of Ukraine) to break the hat in front of the mericatos.
      They didn’t stop ... Ukraine is so tired of everyone that now there is no interest in the problems of this country either in the West or in the East. Russia is occupied with other issues. The main conflict remains-Sevastopol .. The rest is practically resolved. The Ukrainian GTS can be turned off at any moment without consequences especially for Russia, Ukrainian industry (remember Antonov’s company) can easily be replaced by similar Russian ones ...
      Anyway, Europe will snatch its money from Ukraine, but now at the cost of Ukraine itself ... what we have been talking about for a long time now ... And this country has to live exactly until the next president’s election (I see no one but Klitschko for this post )
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 13 May 2013 11: 21 New
        +9
        Quote: domokl
        (I see no one except Klitschko for this post)

        And nothing that, as they say in Ukraine, Klitschko is Yushchenko's "second hand". Just look at the Klitschko team. The original Yushchenko hasn't taught anything yet?
        1. domokl
          domokl 13 May 2013 11: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          And nothing that, as they say in Ukraine, Klitschko is Yushchenko's "second hand"
          Klitschko at the moment is the only person who will suit everyone ... Do you have a person who will vote for the east, west and south of Ukraine?
          I understand that Klitschko’s figure is quite controversial, but has no alternative. He has no policy so far, which means that the left and right Ukrainians will hope that they can manage it.
          And the word TEACHED for Ukraine is not acceptable ... At least in the last 20-30 years lol
          1. Nicholas C.
            Nicholas C. 13 May 2013 11: 58 New
            19
            Quote: domokl
            Klitschko at the moment is the only person who will suit everyone ... Do you have a person who will vote for the east, west and south of Ukraine?

            Oh how. But the lads do not know.

            I have little interest in who will suit anyone in Ukraine now. What is happening there interests me only from the point of view of the possibility of the revival of a great Power (and the reunification of the people, why hide it). But now, in this explosive tangle of Ukrainian politicians of the highest rank, supporters do not even have the idea of ​​joining the CU. Yanukovych tried to seem so, but he deceived expectations. Klitschko does not even try, or rather, he is opposed. Why on earth would the east and south vote for him if he actively rallied against the Russian language, which received only a miserable regional status in some regions where it is native to most?

            I am glad that Russia has grown to the understanding that a Russian politician cannot have business and capital in another country.
            I sympathize with the Ukrainians, who take seriously the German-Ukrainian businessman Klitschko as a politician.
            1. Skavron
              Skavron 13 May 2013 12: 14 New
              -6
              Quote: Nikolai S.
              I am glad that Russia has grown to the understanding that a Russian politician cannot have business and capital in another country.

              Not so what, doesn’t it? State corporations are whole ... not like a politician there.
            2. domokl
              domokl 13 May 2013 14: 14 New
              +3
              Quote: Nikolai S.
              What interests me there is only in terms of the possibility of the revival of a great Power (and the reunification of the people,
              What kind of people, if not secret? Pro-Russian population of the East? Or nationalists of the West? Or maybe the separatists of Crimea?
              Are you tired of saying slogans that mean nothing? Slavs, Kiev is the mother of Russian cities and more. Ukraine is now inhabited by completely different ethnic, cultural and ideological characteristics. There is no single people there.
              Reunification? And we need it? The people practically didn’t separate. But the economy ... Russia should help again? Is there not enough to help those who bite the hand of the giver? We have now taken a completely correct position — non-interference. To whom and who did not help, about half of the population of modern Ukraine would be outraged by interference in internal affairs .. Both from Russia and the West
              1. Nicholas C.
                Nicholas C. 13 May 2013 15: 01 New
                +9
                Quote: domokl
                Klitschko will be elected simply because the rest for half Ukraine will be even worse.

                I envy your perseverance to choose for Ukraine the president of those who is worse. Let me remind you that in 2008, Yushchenko, without a team of like-minded people, would not have been able to shoot down Russian planes in Georgia, block the Black Sea Fleet, redeploy military units to the eastern border, "deploy" radars, erect monuments to all sorts of Judas (Vygovsky, Mazepa). Now this team has chosen Klitschko as its banner.

                Quote: domokl
                What kind of people, if not secret? Pro-Russian population of the East? Or nationalists of the West? Or maybe the separatists of Crimea?

                I’m not ready for the Russian people, even if part of it has been forced to call themselves Ukrainians in the last hundred years, to call "population" и "separatists". My conscience, as I imagine it, is not enough. Try talking to someone else in your terms. There are interlocutors.

                Quote: domokl
                Reunification? But do we need it? The people practically did not separate. But the economy

                The Germans of Germany and the GDR, apparently, are worse than us, or rather you.
            3. elmir15
              elmir15 13 May 2013 14: 53 New
              +6
              Quote: Nikolai S.
              I have little interest in who will suit anyone in Ukraine now. What is happening there interests me only from the point of view of the possibility of the revival of a great Power (and the reunification of the people, why hide it).

              I hold. And so that no one would be offended - Lukashenko should be appointed president of the united state of the USSR-2
            4. slvevg
              slvevg 13 May 2013 15: 50 New
              15
              Many Ukrainians came to understand this fact. Personally, Klitschko is not interested in me either as a politician or as a boxer. And for what political power to vote - and x knows him. All p-s think about their interests and bins.
              The Russians were lucky with Putin much more, although He is not ideal ... In general, I do not believe that an institution of democracy can take root among the Russians and Ukrainians. Without a tough hand and comprehensive control, our cunning self-nature is looking for freebies, with all the consequences.
          2. Patton5
            Patton5 13 May 2013 14: 17 New
            10
            I understand that Klitschko’s figure is quite controversial, but has no alternative. He has no policy so far.
            not that nothing, he’s talking about nothing
      2. TUMAN
        TUMAN 13 May 2013 13: 14 New
        17
        Quote: domokl
        (I see no one except Klitschko for this post)

        With all due respect to you, but this is the same balabol as the rest. Klitschko inheritance is a sport, and let it work, now in Ukraine there is no leader who can put things in order. The opposition is mongrels and well paid by the State Department mongrels, they will not take a step without consulting the US Embassy. Aside from this Tyagnybok, it was created with the support of RyGynalov with the money of the Zionist-Habadnik Kolomoisky. Along the way, the boy fled and got out of control, he can not give anything to Ukraine, acre Russophobia, and God forbid a civil war. What about the power? And power is bandits! What can bandits give people ?! You rearrange yourself well. As they say, without comment.
        1. domokl
          domokl 13 May 2013 14: 01 New
          +6
          Quote: TUMAN
          Now in Ukraine there is no leader who can restore order.

          Your comment is from the heart. We in Russia once voted for EBN not with our heads but with our hearts. It turned out disgusting.
          And now let's think ... with our head. The elections are soon enough and all political parties need to nominate someone as a candidate. Otherwise, it’s just impossible.
          You say that there is no leader, but the president MUST be elected. And who? I hope you understand my logic. Klitschko will be elected simply because the rest for half Ukraine will be even worse.
          There is no single people in Ukraine. There are sharply opposing regions. And they will be satisfied only with their leaders. Which means these leaders are in a notorious loss.
          1. TUMAN
            TUMAN 13 May 2013 15: 22 New
            +4
            Quote: domokl
            You say that there is no leader, but the president MUST be elected. And who? I hope you understand my logic. Klitschko will be elected simply because the rest for half Ukraine will be even worse.

            I agree with you in part. Losing the elections for the current government is death, they will do to them what they did to their losing opponents, and maybe worse. This means that the authorities should not lose, everything will go in here, from electoral fraud to provocations, and God forbid civil. Why did RyGynaly grow "Svoboda" ?! She must play her party, and, apparently, they must destabilize the situation. Now they will look for an enemy, no matter who, Russia, Tatars, or someone else. And then you can introduce a state of emergency, and cancel or postpone the elections. Here, as they say, how the card will fall. Only one thing is known, dashing times await Ukraine and its citizens, there is no doubt about it.
            1. Kaa
              Kaa 13 May 2013 16: 03 New
              +6
              Quote: TUMAN
              then you can introduce a state of emergency, and cancel, or postpone the election.
              Yushchenko planned so in the fall-winter of 2009-2010 ... remember, the "parrot flu epidemic" with a possible step-by-step announcement of a) quarantine, b) a ban on the movement of people from region to region; c) the introduction of a state of emergency with a postponement of elections ... did not dare.
              1. TUMAN
                TUMAN 13 May 2013 16: 53 New
                +5
                Quote: Kaa
                Yushchenko planned so in the fall-winter of 2009-2010 ... remember, the "parrot flu epidemic" with a possible step-by-step announcement of a) quarantine, b) a ban on the movement of people from region to region; c) the introduction of a state of emergency with a postponement of elections ... did not dare.

                I agree! But Yushchenko’s rating for these years was already lower than the plinth, they just would have made a scapegoat, given the general scholar, Yushchenko had the intelligence not to do this. But this doesn’t matter, they won’t give up power so simply!
        2. slvevg
          slvevg 13 May 2013 15: 55 New
          +5
          It’s a pity I can’t put 10 pluses, as if I voiced my thoughts ... Respect
      3. Alexander-Tomsk
        Alexander-Tomsk 13 May 2013 14: 11 New
        +5
        Quote: domokl
        .Russia is busy with other issues.


        Quote: domokl
        Europe will still snatch its money from Ukraine, but now at the cost of Ukraine itself



        No matter how Russia itself has to pay this money out of our pockets. The current authorities are driving from Ukraine somewhere to live abroad. Well, Russia, proceeding from its geopolitical, cultural and other interests, of course, will have to "annex" part of Ukraine, respectively, the debts of these bankrupts will fall on us, and someone abroad will make a good profit.

        It will be most interesting if, after a certain number of years later, someone screams in Ukraine that they again feed the whole of Russia. History does not teach idiots.
        1. domokl
          domokl 13 May 2013 14: 18 New
          +5
          Quote: Alexander-Tomsk
          will be forced to "annex" a part of Ukraine, respectively, the debts of these bankrupts will fall on us, and someone abroad will make good money.
          quite a possible option. But it will be after the collapse.
          1. Skavron
            Skavron 13 May 2013 14: 36 New
            -11
            Quote: domokl
            But it will be after the collapse.

            all you need Ukraine to divide ...
            just do not burn out ... dream on
            1. domokl
              domokl 13 May 2013 14: 44 New
              +3
              Quote: Skavron
              all you need Ukraine to divide ...
              just do not burn out ... dream on
              It’s just something for us. Ukraine is constantly wanting something from Russia. When they helped, they were bad, they stopped helping, they are bad again ... Ukraine is a bunch of hungry lizards in one bank. It seems that they are all of the same species, but they will devour each other anyway.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. svp67
              svp67 13 May 2013 14: 47 New
              +7
              Quote: Skavron
              all you need Ukraine to divide ... just do not burn out ... dream on

              You yourself decide there what is burning and what is not. We just need you to decide which side you are on. Believe from this and it will be easier for you and us.
              And while you yourself are not able to do this, then you should not be offended that someone is doing this for you.
              1. MG42
                MG42 13 May 2013 14: 57 New
                +9
                Quote: svp67
                We just need you to decide which side you are on. Believe from this and it will be easier for you and us

                Yes, here on the forum you can see who is on whose side lol >>> skavron has already decided. As for the population of Ukraine, traditionally, on a territorial basis, the East, South and Crimea belong to the CU, the rest are in the EU, with regard to Ukrainian. power = where it is more profitable.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. MG42
                    MG42 13 May 2013 15: 34 New
                    +8
                    Familiar handwriting however >>> carbon copy as in karsdid you rewrite it? Such branches are just needed >>> Svidomo "doctors" immediately fall in line, manifest in all their wretchedness. laughing Not yet mature enough to make diagnoses, pump up ..
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. MG42
                        MG42 13 May 2013 16: 11 New
                        +6
                        Ostapa here incurred >>> eh, captain = not to be you major..you violate the rules of this forum, behave culturally = you are visiting, not in Ukrainian. forum.
                        Yes, Kars and where?

                        moreover
                      2. Skavron
                        Skavron 13 May 2013 16: 47 New
                        -11
                        Quote: MG42
                        behave culturally = you are a guest, and not in Ukrainian. forum.

                        - the Internet is a free "country". If they want, they will close access for Ukraine. But I'll tell you the secret that they won't.
                        -with normal adequate people, I am always cultured, and renegades and other traitors like you, and all sorts of "pickups", will be sent always and everywhere to Yug
                        Quote: MG42
                        moreover

                        you can’t even make excuses ...
                      3. MG42
                        MG42 13 May 2013 17: 06 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Skavron
                        will be sent always and everywhere

                        Do not send - and you will not send.
                      4. Skavron
                        Skavron 13 May 2013 17: 15 New
                        -10
                        Quote: MG42
                        You did not understand anything.

                        I understood one thing that your flawed worldview does not allow you to separate concepts such as nationalism and patriotism.
                        So I’ll tell you ... I’m not a Ukrainian nationalist and I will never be, but just to love my country and be its patriot - I will always do this. Do you understand the difference?
                        Only here people like you, citizens of Ukraine, are just waiting to merge the country, divide, give up Crimea, Donbass, Sevastopol, Odessa ... they whine about, as you said, Russian forums. Like "take it back, I'm your younger brother." And who are you after that? Traitor.
                      5. MG42
                        MG42 13 May 2013 17: 19 New
                        +7
                        Quote: Skavron
                        Like "take it back, I'm your younger brother." And who are you after that?

                        Bring my quote, and you’ll stick labels on your ass. I was born in the USSR, so I took this flag = I like it.
                        It pissed you off that I supported the author of the article, >>> I have every right to express my opinion, I also found "censorship". laughing
                      6. Skavron
                        Skavron 13 May 2013 17: 27 New
                        -4
                        Quote: MG42
                        Bring my quote

                        and imaginative thinking does not work? Or just quotes? So I have to quote you all, tk. you have every second comment whining and complaining "how bad it is, I want to join the union again." Only the union is no more, and will not be. And do not entertain yourself with illusions. You stick the labels on yourself.
                        And about my nationalism, I hope you understand.
                      7. Skavron
                        Skavron 13 May 2013 17: 54 New
                        -5
                        judging by the unrequited minus, the puller has merged?
                        arguments are over or are you waiting for a tantrum? )))))))))))
              2. Ziksura
                Ziksura 13 May 2013 20: 30 New
                +7
                Quote: Skavron
                - the Internet is a free "country". If they want, they will close access for Ukraine.

                Well yes !!!! Free .... Not for your like-minded people. Your "Kars" have long been separated from more or less serious opponents by "black lists". And they created for themselves a "free sovereign" only their own "Military Review".

                Pass to the brave laughing hi to the tankman.
              3. Hudo
                Hudo 13 May 2013 20: 54 New
                +4
                Quote: Ziksura
                Say hello to the BRAVE laughing tankman.
              4. ATATA
                ATATA 14 May 2013 05: 51 New
                +6
                Quote: Ziksura
                Quote: Skavron
                - the Internet is a free "country". If they want, they will close access for Ukraine.

                Well yes !!!! Free .... Not for your like-minded people. Your "Kars" have long been separated from more or less serious opponents by "black lists". And they created for themselves a "free sovereign" only their own "Military Review".

                Pass to the brave laughing hi to the tankman.

                And say hello from me.
  2. anton107798
    anton107798 13 May 2013 15: 39 New
    -12
    Quote: MG42
    East, South and Crimea to the vehicle,


    I am from Kharkov, that is, from the east, and most of the people with whom I communicate and work are for the European Union, just like me. Here is the answer from the east to you.
    1. MG42
      MG42 13 May 2013 15: 42 New
      11
      Quote: anton107798
      I'm from Kharkov, that is, from the east

      It is clear that not from Galicia
      Quote: anton107798
      most of the people I communicate and work with are for the European Union

      nothing like this in Kharkov just the majority of the vehicle is shown by social. polls, and the election results eloquently indicate the opposite.
      1. Kaa
        Kaa 13 May 2013 15: 57 New
        11
        Quote: MG42
        in Kharkov just the majority of the vehicle
        The reason is on the surface: " Ukraine’s economy is already hypertrophied by the exorbitantly inflated service sector. Being in the group of countries with per capita GDP is half the world average, where in the services sector, employment of about 30–40% of the population is the norm (unlike in highly developed countries, where up to 80% of workers are employed in this segment). In Ukraine, as many as 65,7% of employees are registered in services. And in this regard, only Namibia can possibly “compete” with us, where 61,3% of the population is engaged in the provision of services. It’s possible to provide life to your developments, Ukrainian industrialists will increasingly transfer production to Russia, where they will be provided with a preferential tax regime, transport their best specialists there, or simply sell intellectual rights to their developments to Russians. In any of these cases, only memory will remain from advanced technologies in Ukraine, no more than from the outstanding helicopter designer Igor Sikorsky. After cooperation ties were broken between enterprises of the former Union republics of the USSR from 1990 to 2010. the proportion of engineering in the Ukrainian economy decreased by 4 times. And if earlier a large part of the metal produced in Ukraine was processed and went beyond its limits in the form of engineering products. In 1989, the share of ferrous metallurgy in products exported from Ukraine was 16,8%, and engineering - 37,8%. Now they have changed places in the export structure: 33% - metallurgy and less than 18% - engineering.
        But, most importantly, as the vice-rector of the Alfred Nobel University of Dnepropetrovsk Anatoly Zadoya who analyzed this problem rightly remarked in his article “Deindustrialization in Ukraine: 20 years later”, deindustrialization had its destructive effect on the institutions and deep structures of society: the values ​​of the population and its behavioral attitudes. http://www.ukrrudprom.ua/digest/Nashli_chem_pugat__deindustrializatsiey.html
        "The only way to save Ukraine is to join the Customs Union!" - announced the chairman of the Communist Party of Ukraine Petro Symonenko at the rally. This opinion is shared by almost half of Ukrainians, sociologists say. The other half of the country's inhabitants support Ukraine’s accession to the European Union. These are the results of a public opinion poll conducted in March 2013 in all regions of the country by the Ilko Kucheriva Democratic Initiatives Foundation and the Kiev International Institute of Sociology. According to research, EU accession is supported mainly in the west and in the center of Ukraine, and in the Customs Union, as a rule, in the east and south of the country. http://minprom.ua/digest/122702.html
        That is, cognitive dissonance arose - those who live mainly due to real production - they want in the CU, and those who due to virtual (services) - in the EU. what The problem, however ...
      2. Skavron
        Skavron 13 May 2013 16: 05 New
        -10
        I'm from Donetsk ... ate a renegade?
        1. Polytechnic
          Polytechnic 15 May 2013 14: 43 New
          +2
          I am from Odessa, with whom I communicate - all for the Customs Union and joining Russia. Here it is necessary to conduct a referendum, and not to arrange demagogy like children in the sandbox.
      3. anton107798
        anton107798 13 May 2013 16: 18 New
        -9
        Quote: MG42
        social polls


        But what, social polls interview all residents of the region? No, a maximum of 2000 people are polled and calculations are made against them. Here are the results.
        1. MG42
          MG42 13 May 2013 16: 26 New
          +8
          Yes, you're lying about Kharkov, there 30% max. for European integration, Russia nearby, 80 km. from Kharkov to Belgorod for example.
        2. anton107798
          anton107798 13 May 2013 16: 46 New
          -7
          Quote: MG42
          Belgorod for example


          truth? but I didn’t know ... and now what about Russia 80 kilometers? 30% are also people, and this is not a little in a half-million-strong city, this is half a million. Let's just say every four.
        3. MG42
          MG42 13 May 2013 16: 58 New
          +8
          Quote: anton107798
          truth? but I didn’t know

          better late than never
          Quote: anton107798
          Let's just say every four

          Obviously, you communicate in a narrow circle of European integrators, just sign that the East is not necessary, you distort the real picture.
          Donetsk and Lugansk are also for the vehicle.
        4. piotr534
          piotr534 13 May 2013 20: 56 New
          +2
          truth? but I didn’t know ... and now what about Russia 80 kilometers? 30% are also people, and this is not a little in a half-million-strong city, this is half a million. Let's just say every four.
          "Excellent mathematics, top mark" Did you go to school ???
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. vadson
        vadson 14 May 2013 01: 35 New
        +6
        let not man argue with him, miserable, he does not understand much.
        God forbid Ukraine to join the EU.
        I can’t understand what a delight in washing the European ass? for this purpose there is a Baltic, current they themselves seem to be not happy about this. Why Europe is a competitor to the Baltic states? just to ruin the economy and squeeze the population. when the production facilities are closed (God forbid, of course) and there will not be enough money for heating and food in the winter, then this pretzel will sing differently.
        Roughly speaking, Ukraine has two ways: to restore the economy in the manufacturing sector, to work to work and work again and consequently to earn money, or to ruin everything and go to the EU with new passports to wash asses - this is also work of course, but there are again competitors from the Baltic countries.
  • slvevg
    slvevg 13 May 2013 16: 09 New
    +9
    Many friends in Kiev and Lviv and in Galicia, a lot of thinking Ukrainians for the vehicle. And do not divide one people. I myself am Russian, living in western Ukraine, there is a lot of non-objective information on this site, you are welcome to make sure you are welcome. In Kolomyia (50 km from Ivano-Frankivsk) on May 9, veterans passed with honors without incident, and in the media they trumpeted my mother.
  • Skavron
    Skavron 13 May 2013 15: 15 New
    -11
    Quote: svp67
    We just need you to decide which side you are on.

    you better decide which side you are on
    otherwise we don’t have NATO bases in the country ... only your fleet
    1. svp67
      svp67 13 May 2013 15: 26 New
      +3
      Quote: Skavron
      you better decide which side you are on
      otherwise we don’t have NATO bases in the country ... only your fleet

      Well, here you are trying to blackmail us with something ... Not solid
      1. Skavron
        Skavron 13 May 2013 16: 06 New
        -6
        Quote: svp67
        Well, here you are trying to blackmail us with something ... Not solid

        not seriously threaten that the area will be selected
        either take away or be silent
        threats are weaknesses
        1. svp67
          svp67 13 May 2013 16: 16 New
          +4
          Quote: Skavron
          it is not solid to threaten that the area will be taken away either selected or silent
          threats are weaknesses


          Yes, please. Who and in what way are you threatened? Have you been treated with a note? The situation now is such that if earlier the population of Russia traveled to Crimea to rest almost without exception, now they go there less and less. Therefore, initially everything was so painful, but now it has calmed down more or less, so "breathe evenly."
          1. Skavron
            Skavron 13 May 2013 16: 49 New
            -7
            Quote: svp67
            Yes, get involved. Who and what threaten you?

            so what? read the comments carefully)
            select, split ...
            or am i wrong?
          2. svp67
            svp67 13 May 2013 16: 52 New
            +3
            Quote: Skavron
            so what? read the comments carefully)
            select, split ...
            or am i wrong?

            And you do not give a reason ...
          3. Skavron
            Skavron 13 May 2013 17: 05 New
            -4
            What reason do we give you?
            And what reason can the state have for interfering in the affairs of another state?
          4. svp67
            svp67 13 May 2013 17: 17 New
            +5
            Quote: Skavron
            What reason do we give you?
            And what reason can the state have for interfering in the affairs of another state?

            Interventions in his state affairs ...
            In general, how does the state of Russia interfere in the affairs of the state of Ukraine?
          5. Skavron
            Skavron 13 May 2013 17: 29 New
            -4
            Ukraine interferes in the state affairs of Russia?
            Hmm ... insanity grew stronger
            How do you imagine that? If there is nothing to say, there is no need to answer. I will understand.
          6. svp67
            svp67 13 May 2013 17: 35 New
            +4
            Quote: Skavron
            How do you imagine that? If there is nothing to say, there is no need to answer. I will understand.
            I didn't know that we were already on YOU. Or is it such a way of conducting a conversation, trying to "turn on" the opponent? And I can see the fact of interference in the fact that by providing our fleet with a base for basing, your side is trying in every possible way to get into its control - deciding where, when and which ship can go to sea, which ships can come and which ones cannot. Sorry, but this is our military base, not a trading port ...
          7. Skavron
            Skavron 13 May 2013 17: 45 New
            -5
            Quote: svp67
            I didn’t know that we were already at YOU

            ok, can you, for me it doesn’t matter
            Quote: svp67
            that giving our fleet a base for basing

            Refuse. Business then ...
            And how can the scandals with the port be considered an interference, because of which they begin to demand to "return" the territory?
          8. svp67
            svp67 13 May 2013 18: 07 New
            +4
            Quote: Skavron
            Refuse. Business then ...
            And how can the scandals with the port be considered an interference, because of which they begin to demand to "return" the territory?

            It’s interesting how the residents of Sevastopol support you, thanks to the Black Sea Fleet this city still somehow survives ... And once again I’ll repeat this is not a port, this is a military base in which our country is very interested, and your country uses it, for often shamelessly ...
          9. Skavron
            Skavron 13 May 2013 19: 59 New
            -4
            Quote: svp67
            and your country uses it, for often shamelessly ...

            yes, the price of gas from Russia was shamelessly raised
            yes, shamelessly hinted at the fleet's account
            bash on bash ... we cannot live in peace for some reason ... we cannot. It's a pity.
          10. svp67
            svp67 13 May 2013 20: 13 New
            -1
            Quote: Skavron
            . For some reason we cannot live in the world ... we cannot. It's a pity.
            I agree.
  • piotr534
    piotr534 13 May 2013 21: 14 New
    +5
    you better decide which side you are on
    otherwise we don’t have NATO bases in the country ... only your fleet
    We have decided a long time ago that you’re all rushing around the CU or the EU. And at the expense of the fleet, these cities in Crimea were built for him. The fleet was there when there was neither rumor nor spirit about Ukraine !!! I hope you will not argue with this?
  • Polytechnic
    Polytechnic 15 May 2013 14: 39 New
    0
    Consider it a "purchase" of the territory, you won't have to pay rent for the naval base. So for any in +, unless you have to throw a lot of money into the industry, but that's as usual.
  • Patton5
    Patton5 13 May 2013 14: 12 New
    10
    Klitschko ???? This doctor of sciences with a broken brain !!! If it will be SO, it will be the end of an artificial state !!!
    1. MG42
      MG42 13 May 2013 15: 04 New
      +4
      Klitschko max. what can claim today is the mayor of Kiev bully Even this post will not give power without a fight.
  • Natalia
    Natalia 13 May 2013 15: 08 New
    +4
    The political fever in Ukraine is only regrettable.
    I'm sure I have no doubts that the period of Ukrainian history since 2005 will be called "Time of Troubles".
    1. slvevg
      slvevg 13 May 2013 16: 13 New
      +1
      Why only since 2005?
  • redwar6
    redwar6 13 May 2013 15: 48 New
    +3
    God forbid they break. I will name the day Ukraine enters the EU (God forbid) the blackest day in my life.
  • k220150
    k220150 13 May 2013 08: 28 New
    +9
    When they talk about Ukraine, they recall the formula of MABulgakov about the nationality of the outskirts of the "patriots".
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 13 May 2013 10: 25 New
      +8
      What "European choice" are we talking about? If Ukraine fulfills all the conditions and absolutely submits itself to Brussels, then it will be given a status by association like Egypt or Tunisia - even those Europeans. Ukraine cannot survive only at the expense of tourism.
      1. Ribwort
        Ribwort 13 May 2013 10: 50 New
        +6
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        What "European choice" are we talking about?

        Sometimes, in order to understand that it was a mistake, you need to give the opportunity to make it. Sorry, but it's their choice.
        1. domokl
          domokl 13 May 2013 11: 17 New
          +7
          Quote: Ribwort
          to understand that it was a mistake, you need to give the opportunity to make it
          Good idea .. Only for many years now, for example, I have been banging my head when exiting the minibus ... Theoretically, I already know everything, but practically ... I’m fighting. The error of Ukraine is fatal. Namely for Ukraine
        2. MG42
          MG42 13 May 2013 11: 18 New
          +9
          Quote: Ribwort
          Sorry, but it's their choice.

          Whosetheir>? Nobody asked the people, although there should be a nationwide referendum on such issues, the current government made its choice, although I remind you that Yanukovych was elected on pro-Russian slogans. There is a long way from signing an association agreement with the EU to EU membership >>> Turkey signed such an agreement a long time ago, for example, a NATO member, but EU membership is not coming yet. There are new freeloaders such as Romania. And the old EU members Spain, Italy, Greece also have problems.
          1. Kaa
            Kaa 13 May 2013 12: 18 New
            +4
            Quote: MG42
            there should be a national referendum on such issues,
            ... and most likely it will. Today they write: “On the eve (February 2013), the publication became aware of the details of the CPU's preparation for the all-Ukrainian referendum on Ukraine's entry into the Customs Union.“ We will start collecting signatures in March 2013, ”MP Alexander Golub (CPU) said. The KPU plans to raise only one question for the nationwide discussion: do Ukrainian citizens support the country's accession to the Customs Union. “As for the second question - about the European Union, the president is the decision. If he considers it necessary to raise the issue of integration with the EU to citizens, so be it. For us, the main thing is that citizens determine the vector of Ukraine’s movement and speak about the prospects of membership in the CU, ”- said the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the People’s Deputy Petro Symonenko. According to him, the Communists will finish work on preparations for the referendum in July: "Then we will wait for the president’s decision regarding the date of the referendum." It should take place on the last Sunday of the 50-day period starting at the time of signing of the relevant decree by the head of state.
            It should be noted that the inclusion in the list of the issue of European aspirations of Ukraine will make the holding of an alternative referendum impossible. According to paragraph 11 of Art. 31 of the Law “On the All-Ukrainian Referendum”, “The Central Election Commission denies registration to other initiative groups that submit questions to the referendum, on the content or essentially the same issues that are submitted to the All-Ukrainian referendum by the already registered initiative group”(i.e., gop-positional options sideways).http://vlasti.net/news/160120
            1. MG42
              MG42 13 May 2013 12: 52 New
              +4
              Quote: Kaa
              For us, the main thing is that citizens determine the vector of the movement of Ukraine and speak about the prospects of membership in the CU

              there is one <BUT>, one should not forget that the Communist Party of Ukraine is in coalition with the Party of Regions.
              1. Kaa
                Kaa 13 May 2013 13: 41 New
                +6
                Quote: MG42
                do not forget that the Communist Party is in a coalition with a party of regions.
                Maybe this is keeping Yanukovych from repeating Kuchma's feints? For the first term, he enlisted the support of the South-East, and by the second elections he sniffed with Western Ukraine and came to power with their help, after which it started - a multi-vector foreign policy, the opus "Ukraine is not Russia", etc.
                1. MG42
                  MG42 13 May 2013 13: 53 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Kaa
                  Maybe this keeps Yanukovych from repeating Kuchma's feints?

                  Yanuk is not Kuchma, but a multi-vector policy is from Kravchuk ...
                  Yanukovych did not come for one term, and all the undertakings with a referendum only to create a 2-chamber parliament >> senator-governors in the upper and controlled overbought majority holders in the lower chambers, while reducing the number of deputies from 450 to 300, and maybe less.
                  There Yanukovych Jr. is growing up >>> if Yanuk gives power to the opposition = then the third term for him but only in the zone guaranteed from Tymoshenko ...
                  On the other hand, if he tries to create such a regime as in neighboring Belarus = it will be harshly condemned in the EU and European integration will be covered with a "copper basin", that is balancing on the tightrope >>> as a result, not there ...
                  1. Kaa
                    Kaa 13 May 2013 13: 58 New
                    +8
                    Quote: MG42
                    , if he tries to create such a regime as in neighboring Belarus = it will be sharply condemned in the EU and European integration will be covered with a "copper basin",
                    YOUR WORDS - YES INTO EARS ... I AM PERSONALLY! good
        3. karbofos
          karbofos 13 May 2013 14: 45 New
          +1
          the whole question is what is the price of this error, and most importantly, who will pay. I would not want Russia.
  • djon3volta
    djon3volta 13 May 2013 08: 32 New
    13
    why does Ukraine borrow, but Russia does not? But the population is paying for these debts, there was an article about it, namely about Ukraine. Thank God, almost all the debts that you got in the 90s were paid and paid. And you say to have oil and gas is evil laughing and if Russia didn’t have oil and gas, then what would they pay with the territories? if Russia had extracted oil and sold it for currency under Catherine the Second, maybe Alaska would not have been sold to Americans. Imagine that Alaska is ours? imagine our military bases next to them? laughing Well, yes, yes, and theirs would also be nearby .. but Alska is not a frail piece in size!
    1. Priboi
      Priboi 13 May 2013 09: 14 New
      +3
      in that political situation it was very difficult to keep Alaska (((
    2. Kars
      Kars 13 May 2013 09: 40 New
      +4
      Quote: djon3volta
      why does Ukraine borrow, but Russia does not?

      Who said that he doesn’t take it?

      Russia's foreign debt for the quarter grew by $ 50 billion

      Russia's foreign debt grew in the first quarter of 2013 from 632 to 684 billion dollars. This was reported in the press release of the Central Bank. The increase in debt amounted to $ 52 billion, or about 8,3 percent.

      This growth was mainly driven by the non-financial sector, whose debts increased from $ 366 to $ 412 billion. Bank debt rose from 201 to 205 billion, but government liabilities decreased from 47,8 to 46,4 billion dollars.

      Russia's total external debt has been steadily increasing in recent years. So, in 2012, it grew by 92 billion dollars, and in 2011 - by 50 billion.



      and on the topic I’ll tell you everything
      1. djon3volta
        djon3volta 13 May 2013 10: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Kars
        Who said that he doesn’t take it?

        in google drive in Ukraine took a loan you will see how many links will be laughing Well, you can in Yandex, there is no difference.
        Quote: Kars
        Russia's foreign debt grew in the first quarter of 2013 from 632 to 684 billion dollars.

        Yes, this is the external debt of Russia, only it is necessary to clarify that 143 million people live in Russia, and now they take loans that they take from banks that take from foreign foreignBanks. If I take a loan for example 1 million rubles, then this million will also be in the figure that you quoted. This is where the country's debt comes from.
        Ukraine has less debt, but you have less purchasing power, people take fewer loans, and your population is less.
        but look at European countries, what debts do they have !!! some have more than 100% of GDP debt! everything is mired there in loans! why if Europeans have high incomes, live off loans? why do they take cars, houses and equipment on credit if their incomes are high, how is it customary for us to reason?
        and I want to clarify - Russia does not owe to any IMF as it was in the 90s, these hundreds of billions of debt are not to them.
      2. Greyfox
        Greyfox 13 May 2013 10: 13 New
        +7
        The article is about public debt, and the ones you cite Kars figures are the companies ’debt for which the state does not bear responsibility (but if something, it helps, as in 2008. Whether it is right or not, the question is multifaceted, but Russia has such an opportunity). Russia as a state with 2000's does not borrow much, but with such, to put it mildly, dubious offices like the IMF has no business at all.
        1. Skavron
          Skavron 13 May 2013 10: 23 New
          0
          Quote: Greyfox
          according to which the state is not responsible

          One question ... if the bank is declared bankrupt, then who will assume the obligations of the bank?
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 May 2013 10: 29 New
            +2
            Quote: Skavron
            then who will assume the obligations of the bank?

            who, who - Pushkin.
            1. Gecko
              Gecko 13 May 2013 13: 17 New
              +6
              Ivan Fedorovich Krusenstern. smile
          2. mogus
            mogus 13 May 2013 10: 29 New
            +3
            -takes the state. But this will already be nationalization. Indeed, for the debts of the company / bank / organization, the state will take away the assets.
            1. Skavron
              Skavron 13 May 2013 10: 34 New
              -2
              Quote: mogus
              the state will take the assets.

              og ... and what are the assets of a bankrupt bank?
              1. Greyfox
                Greyfox 13 May 2013 10: 51 New
                +5
                The state has no obligation to redeem one or another bankrupt organization. Private investors will receive their money under the law on compulsory deposit insurance, they will go to the bank under the bankruptcy law. Although, as practice shows (not only in Russia), the state can intervene in the fate of a troubled company, if this requires the interest of the state itself.
                1. Skavron
                  Skavron 13 May 2013 10: 57 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Greyfox
                  the state may interfere in the fate of the troubled company

                  well i.e. and take over the debts of this company?
                  I just wanted to clarify this moment for myself.
                  1. Greyfox
                    Greyfox 13 May 2013 11: 18 New
                    0
                    As practice shows, everything is individual, but I don’t remember that the state took over the debts. Usually, "long" loans are given through controlled banks to replenish working capital and modernize production. The loans must be repaid anyway.
      3. domokl
        domokl 13 May 2013 11: 26 New
        +8
        Quote: Kars
        Who said that he doesn’t take it?
        A little distort in my opinion. The country's debt and the debt of companies are somewhat different things. For the debts of companies, the state is not responsible.
        Russia has long since slipped off the credit needle. That is why the opportunity to pursue an independent policy is possible ..and foreign and domestic
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 13 May 2013 12: 12 New
          +5
          Quote: domokl
          The state is not responsible for the debts of companies.

          Well, this is how to say it! For the debts of the EESU company, our dear Julia was paid by just Ukraine, that is, all the people!
          1. domokl
            domokl 13 May 2013 14: 21 New
            +7
            Quote: Egoza
            Well this is how to say

            lol Ukrainian politics the entire period of independence is determined by the redistribution of kickbacks between presidents and prime ministers .. Therefore, I meant normal states, not Ukraine
          2. Kaa
            Kaa 13 May 2013 14: 33 New
            +4
            Quote: Egoza
            For the debts of the EESU company, our dear Julia was paid by just Ukraine, that is, all the people

            Therefore, she did not fall under the amnesty, like Lutsenko, although many in Europe demand it. Here are new cases - on tax evasion, a possible order, if they are objectively proven in court - will give Ukraine the opportunity to officially appeal to international organizations with a request to help find those 11 billion dollars in which Forbes once estimated it - by For example, how the US disposed of the accounts of her predecessor friend Lazarenko. Then the new IMF borrowings decrease in relevance, so she “mows to the hospital” all the way - apparently, “the cat smells its meat”. crying
      4. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 13 May 2013 11: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        and on the topic I’ll tell you everything


        He did not say anything new. somewhere = verbiage.

        well = not to be forgotten.
      5. Kaa
        Kaa 13 May 2013 13: 55 New
        +8
        Quote: Kars
        Russia's foreign debt grew in the first quarter of 2013 from 632 to 684 billion dollars. This was reported in the press release of the Central Bank. The increase in debt amounted to $ 52 billion, or about 8,3 percent.
        Respected Kars, the numbers are correct, the concepts are replaced - external debt (including private corporations) and public debt, i.e. borrowing by the state and companies with state participation and guarantees. "The public debt arises from the state's borrowings aimed at covering the budget deficit. The public debt consists of the debt of the central government, regional and local authorities, state organizations, enterprises. In Ukraine today direct government debt amounts to UAH 501,440 billion, or $ 62,7 billion. Government-guaranteed debt at the end of 2012 amounted to UAH 95 326,1 million. In the structure of the public debt, external debt accounts for 208,3 billion UAH, and internal - 197,9 billion UAH. In the structure of guaranteed debt, the external one is 83,322 billion UAH, the internal one is 12,30 billion UAH. http://www.finobzor.com.ua/themes/topic/gosudarstvenniy-dolg
        About private companies - no gu-gu. But in Russia, in continuation of your figures: "Russia's external debt increased to $ 623,963 billion as of January 1, 2013 from $ 540,555 billion as of January 1, 2012. This is evidenced by the preliminary data of the Bank of Russia. With an increase in external debt, Russia owed exclusively to the private sector for the year; government and monetary authorities reduced debt slightly.http: //www.rg.ru/2013/01/11/dolg-anons.html The state does not answer for private, non-guaranteed debts, for example, everyone knows the US state debt figure of -17 trillion, and there is also a figure with debts companies and Americans -52 trillion dollars, but the whole world is only concerned about US government debt ...
      6. kroog
        kroog 14 May 2013 14: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        Quote: djon3volta
        why does Ukraine borrow, but Russia does not?

        Who said that he doesn’t take it?

        Russia's foreign debt for the quarter grew by $ 50 billion

        Russia's foreign debt grew in the first quarter of 2013 from 632 to 684 billion dollars. This was reported in the press release of the Central Bank. The increase in debt amounted to $ 52 billion, or about 8,3 percent.

        This growth was mainly driven by the non-financial sector, whose debts increased from $ 366 to $ 412 billion. Bank debt rose from 201 to 205 billion, but government liabilities decreased from 47,8 to 46,4 billion dollars.

        Russia's total external debt has been steadily increasing in recent years. So, in 2012, it grew by 92 billion dollars, and in 2011 - by 50 billion.



        and on the topic I’ll tell you everything



        do not confuse public debt with the debts of private companies. And while the latter are often artificial, created for money laundering.
    3. wk
      wk 13 May 2013 10: 17 New
      +5
      what does Catherine have to do with it (if you’re not a Troll) .... Alaska was transferred under Alexander II ..... in addition, contrary to misconceptions, the extraction of oil, gas, coal, and other minerals not only brings income from the sale, but with proper administration ( preferably within the framework of state property) are the locomotive of industry and science, such industries as engineering, transport, chemistry, energy, geology, etc.
      1. Skavron
        Skavron 13 May 2013 10: 24 New
        -2
        Quote: wk
        but with proper administration

        perhaps this is a key phrase.
      2. djon3volta
        djon3volta 13 May 2013 11: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: wk
        In addition, contrary to misconceptions, the extraction of oil, gas, coal, and other minerals not only brings revenue from the sale, but, with proper administration (preferably within the framework of state property), are the locomotive of industry and science, such industries as engineering, transport, chemistry, energy , geology, etc.

        right, but it is done at the expense of money from the sale of hydrocarbons! if the state does not have money (poor state), how will it develop the whole industry? After all, industry is not only a brick building with a pipe, people work there who want to eat 2 -3 times a day! A hungry person doesn’t stand for a long time near the machine, he’d love to feed him at least. Or do you think people didn’t get a salary in the USSR? State will not funcate on one enthusiasm, anyway, it’s all about money, it’s a reward for work.
    4. andrey777
      andrey777 13 May 2013 12: 53 New
      +4
      Alaska was surrendered under Alexander2 in 1867.
  • Captain Vrungel
    Captain Vrungel 13 May 2013 08: 34 New
    +8
    "... But if the Ukrainian will delay making a decision, then such a state as Ukraine may cease to exist ..."
    I wonder what will happen then. But worse than it will not be now. Such rulers and such rule will not even be dreamed of in a nightmare, if this is not the territory captured by criminal families.
    Ukraine in the EU. Under this power? Pipe dreams for years to come. They tease you like a cat with a piece of fat on a fishing line with a hook.
    1. MG42
      MG42 13 May 2013 11: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      Such rulers and such rule will not even be dreamed of in a nightmare, if this is not the territory captured by criminal families.

      That's for sure...
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      Ukraine in the EU. Under this power? Pipe dreams for years to come

      Recently, amers put forward the condition that Yanukovych should release Tymoshenko from prison, otherwise the signing does not shine, in Europe they rule from across the ocean laughing .
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      They tease you like a cat with a piece of fat on a fishing line with a hook.

      Yes, Europe is teasing, it needs a buffer zone from Russia, Ukraine is geographically in Europe, otherwise it would not be needed there with such a standard of living.
      As for Ukraine, the oligarchs considered exporting much more, and the fear that grew. a more powerful business will absorb Ukrainian. in the vehicle.
    2. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 13 May 2013 11: 31 New
      +3
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      I wonder what will happen then. But worse than it will not be now.

      It is necessary to look for a way and strength how to do better. And worse than now, it can even become.
      1. xan
        xan 13 May 2013 12: 55 New
        +3
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        It is necessary to look for a way and strength how to do better. And worse than now, it can even become.

        exactly
        as one old Jew said, it’s never so bad that it couldn’t be worse.
    3. domokl
      domokl 13 May 2013 11: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      I wonder what will happen then. But worse than it will not be now.
      There will be a partition of Ukraine and God forbid that according to the Czechoslovak version ... I think the Yugoslav version is more real ..
      So maybe worse ... recourse
  • UFO
    UFO 13 May 2013 08: 36 New
    +2
    Where??? In the middle! (In the pope) laughing It’s time to decide already, and not to play the INFINITE Hamlet question. sad
  • limon
    limon 13 May 2013 08: 37 New
    +1
    The question is much simpler. What to choose? Death or life for Ukraine. The answer is obvious, of course life, with Russia.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 May 2013 09: 22 New
      +7
      Quote: limon
      What to choose? Death or life for Ukraine.

      So no one thinks about Ukraine at the top. The question is how to choose in order to save your grandmothers and stay untouched! angry
  • Atlon
    Atlon 13 May 2013 08: 38 New
    +5
    Ukraine has stayed in the girls ... Too long chooses a groom, so you can stay and the old maid, with a broken trough ...
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 13 May 2013 13: 52 New
      +2
      Like in that song:
      "Words and music: folk

      Ty kazala in ponidilok - let's go at once on barvynok,
      I am a priishov, you are mute, deadmanula, airborne.

      Ti mene pidmanula, ti mene poddvela,
      TI Mene, young, with a mind of madness.

      I seemed at the doubles - for the first time in forty,
      Ty priishov, less than him, pedmanula, deadlaw.

      I told you, I gave you,
      I f you, young, z mad madness.

      You are his pidmanula, you are his podium,
      You and his, young, z mad roze.

      Ty kazala u mean - let's go at once in a series
      I am a priishov, you are mute, deadmanula, airborne.

      TI Mene Pidmanula, TI Mene Fided,
      TI Mene, young, with a mind of madness.

      I used to have it at the quartet at the concert,
      Ty priishov, less than him, pedmanula, deadlaw.

      TI Mene Pidmanula, TI Mene Fided,
      TI Mene, young, with a mind of madness.

      Ty showed at Friday - let's go at once on wheat,
      I am a priishov, you are mute, deadmanula, airborne.

      Well I told you, I told you,
      You and his, young, z mad roze.

      I used to look at Subotu - let's go straight to the robot,
      I am a priishov, you are mute, deadmanula, airborne.

      I told you, I gave you,
      I f you, young, z mad madness.

      TI Mene Pidmanula, TI Mene Fided,
      TI Mene, young, with a mind of madness.

      I seemed to y nedelju - let's go at once on weight,
      I priishov, you are dumb, pidmanula, pidvela. "
      I speak Russian at once, I did not find the original, otherwise right now Dzhontrivolt will begin to demand in Russian laughing
  • RussianRu
    RussianRu 13 May 2013 08: 49 New
    +1
    Everything is very sad.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 13 May 2013 08: 50 New
    +6
    The saddest thing is that all the questions in Ukraine are solved by zapadentsy, and they decide. Oriental somehow less active. They would have cleaned the dirt from their streets. And then I look. Galitchina lives according to her own laws. where is the unitarity that the president loves to talk about? Why are the laws of the country not enforced throughout the autonomous territory? why does Lviv adopt moronic laws and the government is silent and does not cancel them? a lot of why and there is not a single explanation. At one time, EBN drove the tanks to the parliament and plundered it. deputies put on cameras that would come to their senses. (I do not call for this and I am not a supporter of the EBN act, but he did it resolutely and showed that there is power, although time was not easy and everything hung in the balance)
  • Egoza
    Egoza 13 May 2013 08: 51 New
    10
    It is unlikely that Ukraine will even be able to sign an association with the EU. If only because many requirements have not been met, and in the EU there are opponents of signing such an agreement with Ukraine. The EU will talk and play a lot, make new claims, talk about freedom for Yulia, threaten "Svoboda", etc. After all, the real goal of the EU is to prevent an alliance with the CU. And there are already talks about creating a consortium for the Ukrainian GTS with Russia and Europe ... But who in Europe will invest money in a rusty pipe? And the victorious reports on shale gas somehow subsided. And here's another interesting thing. There were two messages in the news yesterday:
    Russia creates in Ukraine an alternative to the Party of Regions
    Konstantin Zatulin stated that he had high hopes for the emerging new movement in support of the union of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.
    “We will try to make the project of the movement in support of the union of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus and, perhaps, thanks to this we will be able to create some kind of force in Ukraine, which will crush the Party of Regions, which is in power ... And maybe in in the future, when it all develops, it will act as its more successful competitor in future elections, ”Zatulin said during a public discussion“ Russian Movement of Ukraine: Problems and Hopes ”in Moscow’s house in Sevastopol, Novy Sevastopol reports.
    “If from the very beginning we rest our horn and say no, we will not cooperate with them (Party of Regions, - Ed.), Nothing will happen. They will not let us develop, they will not allow us to rise, ”he added, reacting to the statements of some activists of the Russian Crimean movement, advocating for closing contacts with the Party of Regions.
    At the same time, Zatulin noted that the movement created in support of the union of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus would not become an alternative to the Russian movement of Crimea and Sevastopol.
    2000 Press Bureau
    Moscow should force Ukraine to friendship - captain of the Black Sea Fleet
    Russia pays too little attention to Sevastopol, said a representative of the Black Sea Fleet
    Today Moscow pays extremely little attention to Sevastopol. This was announced at a round table in Sevastopol dedicated to the crisis of the Russian movement in Crimea, the captain of the 1st rank of the Black Sea Fleet Sergei Gorbachev, a military journalist and political scientist, reports "New Region".
    “I must admit that the naval problem has not been resolved - something will swing in Kiev, and again patrols will stop the Black Sea Fleet sailors on the streets of Sevastopol, and the traffic police will be the Russian armored personnel carriers. All this is quite real, ”Gorbachev warned.
    “In no way touching the sovereignty of Ukraine, Moscow should conduct an operation to force Ukraine into friendship. We have seen Georgia. In the meantime, Gazprom is engaged in one thing with us, other organizations - in another. There should be a commander, plan, tactics, strategy. In fact, everything turns out at the level of good, but insignificant things - like writing in the Russian language, distributing St. George's tapes, ”the officer said.
    “Pro-Russian forces should not focus on the Russian language, but on adopting a law on the status of Sevastopol, so that the Sevastopol residents themselves elect their mayor,” the military believes.
    http://www.segodnya.ua/politics/pnews/Moskva-dolzha-prinudit-Ukrainu-k-druzhbe-k
    apitan-CHF-RF-435285.html

    and NO indignant cues from officials! Perhaps this is another attempt by Yanukovych to sit on two chairs. Moreover, the news that the president donated 2 million bucks to the United States for the construction of a memorial dedicated to the Holodomor (and with such debts) caused an avalanche of indignation from the people.
  • fenix57
    fenix57 13 May 2013 08: 52 New
    +7
    "If the Association Agreement with the European Union is signed in the country, the final collapse of the industry will occur, and in the best case - the consolidation of the status of the EU granary for Ukraine .. "

    Here's the line:Ukraine is clearly an agricultural country, because Azarov with a shovel, Lyashko with a pitchfork, and the president is a vegetable ... hi
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 13 May 2013 09: 40 New
      +8
      Quote: fenix57
      and the president is a vegetable ...

      Judging by the picture - Fruit.
      1. Skavron
        Skavron 13 May 2013 10: 20 New
        0
        Quote: Garrin
        Judging by the picture - Fruit.

        Og ... the fruit is still that
        1. Garrin
          Garrin 15 May 2013 00: 28 New
          0
          A rare case when I plus you. Just too lazy to finish the phrase.
          Quote: Skavron

          Og ... the fruit is still that
      2. andrejwz
        andrejwz 13 May 2013 10: 24 New
        +6
        Quote: Garrin
        Quote: fenix57 and the president is a vegetable ... Judging by the picture - Fruit.

        And here he is trying to sit on two chairs.
    2. MG42
      MG42 13 May 2013 12: 08 New
      +5
      Quote: fenix57
      Ukraine is clearly an agricultural country, because Azarov with a shovel, Lyashko with a pitchfork, and the president is a vegetable

      I can offer a look in response good
  • wulf66
    wulf66 13 May 2013 09: 15 New
    +6
    I sympathize with the inhabitants of Eastern Ukraine.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 13 May 2013 09: 17 New
    +9
    Salvation of Ukraine ...
    The same can be said about the salvation of ANY country.
    Nobody needs anyone. Your shirt is always closer to the body. People, for example, respond only to the requests of relatives, close friends and good acquaintances with whom they live and who are dear to them, but it is impossible to help all of us in the world. Roughly speaking, a person tries to keep everything cozy and comfortable in his environment, in which he lives and communicates. The same goes for countries.

    What, Ukraine in the European Union is waiting with open arms like a lost sheep? Will they set up a generous table with refreshments and will help their whole life mentally and financially?
    Of course not, like any other country.
    Only if it will be beneficial for economic or political reasons to the European Union itself. If in the first case, they will suck out like sticky and make it their appendage, if in the second, they will use it for their personal purposes.
    But why does practical Europe still need someone? Only mercantile interests. Absolutely mercantile interests: TAKE MORE THAN TO GIVE.

    It is necessary to unite according to some more significant signs: community of peoples, historical roots, culture of lifestyle, fraternity if you want.
    I am for the integration of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. It doesn’t matter in what form. Though in the Martian-lunar union.
    You can only survive with someone who is closer to you in spirit and whom you can hope for. Whom you will definitely support if you have to choose. In whom you are firmly convinced of mutual assistance. Someone is strong today, someone tomorrow. Together, the brothers will always be strong and everyone will reckon with them.

    When, damn it, politicians of our countries will understand it .... And then they have, apart from a thirst for power, with the desire to feel like an independent cool brow with their own impulse and desire for profit, nothing is read in their eyes.

    Handy with relatives then, and not with unfamiliar uncles.
  • knn54
    knn54 13 May 2013 09: 33 New
    11
    We just don’t have Old Man.
    I repeat, but the prosperity of the economies of Norway and Turkey lies in the fact that they are not members of the EU.
    PS This is the “Romanian (not Russian or Ukrainian) version.” And it leads to reflection.
  • biglow
    biglow 13 May 2013 09: 34 New
    +4
    a handful of politicians in Kiev live in their own world, and people in their own. Ukraine walks in the same circle, venal rulers, Germans in Kiev, then release, and now it will be the same. Only this time I hope without victims
  • Makarov
    Makarov 13 May 2013 09: 38 New
    -4
    The author, as usual, wrote utter nonsense .... do not be offended, but everyone was clear about the course of Ukraine at the beginning of the reform of the agro-industrial complex, today it works according to European standards and is fully integrated into the European market, industrialists simply initially understood that nothing could shine for them in Europe and therefore desperately tried to unite Ukraine and the Russian Federation, after Yulia removed the benefits from them, they did not have long to live and, as history has shown, it was only a matter of two years, while all the "left" taxes were removed from the agrarians and began to take a fixed tax. As a result of the agro-industrial complex in chocolate, the industry is in the ass.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 13 May 2013 09: 56 New
      +7
      Quote: Makarov
      Apk in chocolate

      In chocolate? Unless the color of this substance is similar to chocolate, but the smell and everything else ... request recourse
    2. Skavron
      Skavron 13 May 2013 10: 11 New
      0
      Apk in chocolate?
      Watch the latest news, farmers plan to remove all benefits. Without benefits, in the current state, large AMS are doomed to extinction. But everything would be fine if the institute of small agricultural enterprises operated in Ukraine with its own conditions. Such enterprises are able to fill the coffers and provide jobs.
      The future of Ukraine is the development of medium and small agricultural businesses ...
      1. alex13-61
        alex13-61 13 May 2013 11: 09 New
        +5
        Quote: Skavron
        The future of Ukraine is the development of medium and small agricultural businesses

        Indeed, and why did she need industry ... already to cut everything into scrap metal ... once they started. And then - airplanes, missiles ... it’s easier to be.
        Only now, the Ukrainians are not in a hurry to become agrarians, but quite the opposite ... these same agrarians ran up to the mist and stand in the bazaars - they sell Polish, Turkish, Chinese consumer goods ... and in their place they are thinking of importing blacks. ..
        1. Skavron
          Skavron 13 May 2013 11: 22 New
          -2
          Quote: alex13-61
          Indeed, and why does she need industry

          I didn’t say such a thing, but in vain ... how much does it cost to build a new engineering plant from scratch? Name at least one Ukrainian company capable of building such an enterprise now?
          Quote: alex13-61
          Only now, Ukrainians are not in a hurry to become agrarians either

          Why's that? Give the opportunity, regulate the land market, adopt the right laws to support smallholders ...
          1. alex13-61
            alex13-61 13 May 2013 11: 43 New
            +4
            Quote: Skavron
            to support the smallholder ...

            At whose expense are you going to support ???
            1. Skavron
              Skavron 13 May 2013 12: 01 New
              -5
              Quote: alex13-61
              At whose expense are you going to support ???

              incorrect question.
              -Support at least at the legislative level
              partial import closure
              -more flexible tax system ...
          2. Egoza
            Egoza 13 May 2013 12: 19 New
            +5
            Quote: Skavron
            Give the opportunity, regulate the land market, adopt the right laws to support smallholders ...

            That is the point! For years, people have not been able to get a certificate for that share of land that they got during the division of the collective farm. Not everything is true, but most. hence the uncertainty - how to build greenhouses, mini-farms, if tomorrow they can come and declare that this land is not yours. And a little spinning in the gardens, a couple of goats, a couple of piglets, heels of hens. If people were sure, then they could still turn around and develop something.
            1. Skavron
              Skavron 13 May 2013 12: 38 New
              -3
              Elena, so what am I talking about !!! All is correct !!!
              and for:
              Quote: Egoza
              greenhouses, mini farms,

              future
          3. Misantrop
            Misantrop 13 May 2013 22: 47 New
            +4
            Quote: Skavron
            . how much does it cost to build a new engineering plant from scratch?

            I have not yet met a single plant on which sneakers in a package would grow. For agricultural production requires:
            - land,
            - seed fund (certified),
            - fertilizers (similar),
            - agricultural machinery,
            - place of storage of grown products,
            - processing facilities at the factory or plant level (also with all documents),
            - sales network (otherwise, the implementer will take away almost all of the revenue),
            - INTERNATIONAL certification ...

            In addition, it is necessary to "persuade to make room" of organizations and structures already operating in this market and enjoying the support of their governments (through quotas, subsidies, etc.). Are there many chances for Ukrainian manufacturers, who are not only not helped by their government, but also strives to rob? ...
            1. Kars
              Kars 13 May 2013 23: 20 New
              +1
              Much cheaper
              Land for rent
              Seed Fund what to buy, what the state
              Fertilizer to buy,
              Agricultural machinery leasing
              Warehouses are not particularly difficult if you do not store them until the next season.
              The processing plants are already built in principle, but you can build your own, but not all at once.
              the sales network --- it’s expensive to build one, and you don’t have to complicate it that way - distributors are not so scary.
              International certification - thank God there are not such grabbers as ours.
              Quote: Misantrop
              Are there many chances for Ukrainian producers, whom their government not only does not help, but also strives to rob?

              There are always chances, and any foreign market is hostile by definition. And you don’t need to tell tales about paradise conditions in the Russian Federation, they don’t really expect us either. But chicken eggs to the Middle East supply this topic. In general, the Middle East markets for / x products have a bonanza, you just need to understand that bullshit is more expensive to drive your gun, and everything will be a bunch.
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 14 May 2013 00: 00 New
                +2
                Quote: Kars
                Land for rent

                I don’t know how in Zaporozhye, but in the Crimea many have already gotten burned. Sudden failure, adjustable grabs with the construction of a pile of halabuds, etc. As recently as last year I watched. Departure towards Feodosia, opposite Khoshkeldy. Then the shareholders were saved only by the fact that under the field that the Tatars had taken over for construction, there is a line of government communication (construction is forbidden categorically). But the harvest has died. Shareholders from Labor still can’t get out of debt, since NO ONE thinks to compensate them for losses.
                Quote: Kars
                Seed Fund what to buy, what the state
                Fertilizer to buy,
                Agricultural machinery leasing

                Well, now they’re just thinking of what income to pay for the crop ... And there are not one or two such examples only around Simferopol.
                Quote: Kars
                distributors are not so scary

                Why argue? Compare the price of milk in the nearest store with the purchase. By the way, sausage factories in Crimea are now creating networks of their shops. This is despite the fact that supermarkets with a grocery assortment are on every corner. Only near my house in the last month there were retail outlets of the Yalta sausage factory, KAMO (Sevastopol), Skvortsovo and a couple of others. They have nowhere to put money?
                Quote: Kars
                And fairy tales about paradise conditions in the Russian Federation do not need to be told
                Я about it At least a word said? Or is this an obsession? lol
                1. Kars
                  Kars 14 May 2013 08: 37 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  but in the Crimea, many were already burned out.

                  In Crimea we have In Dzhankoy
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Well, now they’re just thinking of what income to pay for the crop ... And there are not one or two such examples only around Simferopol.

                  What you wanted was business and risk,
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Compare the price of milk in the nearest store with the purchase

                  Well, I’ll tell you a secret --- we resell our milk three or four times before it goes to distributors. To do this, we have several trading houses, most of the office staff are specialists and even drivers have directors.
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  They have nowhere to put money?
                  And how old are these plants? Or do you think they produced the first ton of products and are already building stalls?
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  I WANT TO SAY ABOUT THIS? Or is this an obsession?

                  It’s said here but before
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 14 May 2013 15: 58 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Kars

                    It’s said here but before
                    "When you speak, it seems that you are delusional ..." (c) ("Ivan Vasilyevich is changing his profession") request what
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 14 May 2013 22: 11 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      "When you speak, it seems that you are delusional ..." (c) ("Ivan Vasilyevich is changing his profession")

                      So can you say that it is the opposite opinion?
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      And you don’t need to tell tales about paradise conditions in the Russian Federation. ATTENTION WANTED TO SAY THIS WORD? Or is this an obsession?



                      by the way your countrymen
                      Simferopol region of the coast of the artillery group of the Vіyskovo-Morsky Forces of the Ukrainian Forces of Ukraine was aware of the 200-kilometer march; The hour of the artillery march was already followed by food, as well as technical support and the zhrost’s masquerading.

                      It’s not out of place to get into a battlefield of practical combat with practical sightings from reactive systems of the “Grad” multiple launch rocket system and the D-20 howitzer. For half an hour of polish entry, tactful start-up of platoon and batteries was carried out, and second-hand stand-by and second-hand guard officers were commissioned by artillery officers. I give special respect to the young officers, for example, I ended up losing my forensic services and serving my services under a contract, since they mercilessly became part of the order.

                      The commander of the Simferopol coastal artillery group, Colonel Dmitry Kozachenko, having voted on the fact that the ministry is in the field.

                      - Tіlki prakticheskiі zanyatya give zmogu zrozumіti that theory, which is written at the hands, and the smell of the burnt gunpowder zakrіplyuє vmіnnya more than anything, - pіdkresliv official.
                      1. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 14 May 2013 23: 34 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        So can you say that it is the opposite opinion?

                        Do you think that such a luxury as your own opinion is permissible only to you? And to your curator from Europe?
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 14 May 2013 23: 36 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Do you think that such a luxury as your own opinion is permissible only to you?

                        So there will be no direct answer?
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        And to your curator from Europe?

                        It flatters me. Thank you. I will definitely tell him that you mentioned it.
                      3. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 15 May 2013 00: 03 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        So there will be no direct answer?
                        A direct answer TO WHAT, to that sheet that is a little higher? How do they resell their own milk until it turns sour? Or that the word "here to see" usually begins with the letter "z"?

                        With regard to the "paradise conditions in the Russian Federation", this is not my phrase either. Yours. My opinion is that there will be no freebies there, no one will just feed and drink gasoline for nothing, capitalism (the same SPECIFIC) has come there too. The only thing that will disappear is customs duties (not very small) and export quotas. And the requirements for the quality of products in terms of the manufactured nomenclature in Ukraine are similar to those in Russia, so reworking of production (not cheap) will not be required at first
                      4. Garrin
                        Garrin 15 May 2013 00: 11 New
                        0
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        A direct answer TO WHAT, to that sheet that is a little higher? How do they resell their own milk until it turns sour? Or that the word "here to see" usually begins with the letter "z"?

                        Valera, Brother, these puppies will not understand.
                      5. gladiatorakz
                        gladiatorakz 15 May 2013 09: 37 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Garrin
                        Valera, Brother, these puppies will not understand.

                        Garin, why are you sticking out your everyday life and not upbringing? Or do you think that they will become more serious about you because of this?
                      6. Garrin
                        Garrin 15 May 2013 11: 06 New
                        +1
                        Quote: gladiatorakz
                        Garin, why are you sticking out your everyday life and not upbringing?

                        First of all. Why on "you"? This is by the way about cattle-breeding and bad manners.
                        Secondly. Explain the term FAR.
                        Quote: gladiatorakz
                        Or do you think that they will become more serious about you because of this?
                        Do you think that after the first sentence, your opinion bothers me?
                      7. gladiatorakz
                        gladiatorakz 15 May 2013 20: 20 New
                        0
                        Quote: Garrin
                        Explain the term FAR.

                        If the Father did not explain in childhood, then it is too late.
                        Quote: Garrin
                        Do you think that after the first sentence, your opinion bothers me?

                        I think you don't have much to worry about. Especially the opinion of others. (especially on the Internet distance). A kind of Internet courage Internet patriot.
                      8. Skavron
                        Skavron 15 May 2013 23: 30 New
                        -1
                        Quote: gladiatorakz
                        Internet courage Internet patriot.

                        for this you bold "+"
              2. Kars
                Kars 15 May 2013 00: 17 New
                +1
                Quote: Misantrop
                Direct response to what

                Quote: Kars
                I WANT TO SAY ABOUT THIS? Or is this an obsession?
                It’s said here but before

                Quote: Kars
                So can you say that it is the opposite opinion?

                Quote: Misantrop
                How do they resell milk themselves until they turn sour?

                There is such a thing called sterilization, pasteurization and preservatives. Yes, and everything happens on paper and in accounting statements.
                Quote: Misantrop
                about the fact that the word "here" usually begins with the letter "z"?

                Is this important? Am I writing a dictation? Or should I ask komenty for you to recruit a secretary? So this is only during working hours. They won’t give houses))
                Quote: Misantrop
                With regard to the "paradise conditions in the Russian Federation", this is not my phrase either.

                This is figurative and collective of your sayings about the market of the vehicle and the Russian Federation in the above privacy.
                Quote: Misantrop
                The only thing that will disappear is customs duties (not very small) and quotas for exports.

                You are a naive person)))
                Quote: Misantrop
                And the requirements for the quality of products according to the manufactured nomenclature in Ukraine are similar to the Russian ones, so that production alteration (not cheap) will not be required at first

                Anyway, there’s the right san doctor in the Russian Federation. And alterations are personal initiatives of businessmen who want to get better markets. Nobody forces the network. You can develop the internal market and there are so many dodges))
              3. Misantrop
                Misantrop 15 May 2013 09: 34 New
                +2
                Quote: Kars
                personal initiatives of entrepreneurs who want to get better markets. Nobody forces a network. You can develop and develop an internal market

                Yeah. TS is a scary place. But in Europe there are entirely dairy rivers with jelly banks and NO restrictions for business? And which of us is naive?
                Quote: Kars
                Is it important? Am I writing a dictation? Or should I ask komenty for you to recruit a secretary?

                I remember someone here pouted with pride, talking about (at least) his two higher educations ... what
                Quote: Kars
                There is such a thing called sterilization, pasteurization and preservatives. Yes, and everything happens on paper and in accounting statements.

                Oh really? belay What a deep knowledge ... wassat About pasteurization of accounting documents before to hear request
              4. Kars
                Kars 15 May 2013 11: 02 New
                +1
                Quote: Misantrop
                Yeah. TS is a scary place. But in Europe there are entirely dairy rivers with jelly banks and NO restrictions for business? And which of us is naive?

                Strange, are you sure that I said that? I even have nothing against the TS as such, the main thing is that the entry would be on our terms.
                And joining the EU is not even this decade.
                Quote: Misantrop
                I remember someone here pouted with pride, talking about (at least) his two higher educations.

                Well, not the philological one. And not two but just one. The Donetsk National University of Economics and Trade.
                Quote: Misantrop
                Oh really? What deep knowledge ... About pasteurization of accounting documents it was not heard earlier

                You are a strange person. But this is probably from impotent malice.
              5. Misantrop
                Misantrop 15 May 2013 22: 11 New
                +1
                Quote: Kars
                I have nothing against the vehicle as such, the main thing is that the entry would be on our terms.

                This is with what joy? In the Donetsk National do not learn that only MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL contracts are durable and reliable? All others are not worth the paper on which they are printed. What do economists teach there?
                Quote: Kars
                Well, not philological

                I am also not a philologist. Does this free me from basic literacy?
                Quote: Kars
                And joining the EU is not even this decade.
                And what will the country live on all this time while "the leaders are thinking"? Or the more people take a break during this time, the less deductions from the budget for pensions and benefits? BOTH groupings (CU and EU) insist on fast choice. The country's economy is collapsing; there is nothing to effectively slow down its decline. And now even "not even a decade" ... I would venture to continue the thought: "And the benefits of joining the EU are not even a couple of decades" ... What, I can't wait to "return to the roots", ie to revive the former Wild Field on the site of the main part of the current country?
              6. Kars
                Kars 16 May 2013 10: 56 New
                +1
                Quote: Misantrop
                that only MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL contracts are durable and reliable?

                Well, ours will be mutually beneficial.
                Quote: Misantrop
                All others are not worth the paper on which they are printed. What do economists teach there?

                With the Russian Federation, they are all like that, and for this you do not need to study the economy
                Quote: Misantrop
                I am also not a philologist. Does this free me from basic literacy?

                But I don’t check you. And you understand what I write, just answer.

                Quote: Misantrop
                And what will the country live on all this time while "the leaders are thinking"?

                And what should we sponsor? Do you yourself write no freebies?
                Quote: Misantrop
                The country's economy is falling, there is nothing to effectively slow down its fall

                Joining any of the groups does not solve the problems of the Ukrainian economy, it can be seen from the indicators that Belarus, Kazakhstan, Romania and Spain, but you have to be such a writer.
                Quote: Misantrop
                I would venture to continue the thought: "And the benefits of joining the EU are not even a couple of decades" ...

                The benefits of joining the EU are not so much the economy as the social side, even your favorite tolerance, but this is still a long way off.
  • Skavron
    Skavron 14 May 2013 20: 07 New
    -2
    Misanthrope, you haven’t even touched the edge of the problem.
    In order :
    Earth is the biggest problem. Without a land market and land laws, building a CX is a dead issue.
    Seed fund, fertilizers - and why only plant growing? SH is also animal husbandry, poultry farming, beekeeping, mushroom farming, breeding of valuable fur animals ...
    equipment - leasing, rental, credit
    place - why? Direct processing with instant delivery
    processing capacities - from 20 to 100 thousand euros universal mini-plants for every taste and size. From the customer only the foundation, everything else comes in the complex.
    Network of sales - and what, there are no shops?
    Quote: Misantrop
    (otherwise, the seller will take away almost all of the revenue)

    the salesman earns 20%
    Quote: Misantrop
    it is required to "persuade to make room" of organizations and structures already operating in this market

    this is capitalism ... the fittest survives.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 14 May 2013 23: 47 New
      +2
      Quote: Skavron
      this is capitalism ... the fittest survives.
      Uh-huh, pure capitalism, just classic. Here are just about the parliamentary immunity of these "capitalists", as well as the accountable power structures (for some reason in the state shoulder straps, by the way) in the textbooks on the market economy, for some reason, not a word. They are waiting in Europe for these "capitalists", they are already squealing with impatience
      Quote: Skavron
      Without a land market and land laws, building a CX is a dead issue.
      Why, some people manage. For example, Sergei Kunitsyn. He spent only a year as a Gauleiter of Sevastopol, and sold the Belbek Valley in bulk. More than 1000 hectares of agricultural land. And the lack of land laws did not hurt. And not just anywhere, but the British and Cypriots. Under the construction of cottages Now the SBU is trying to return at least something back. Before that, he was the Prime Minister of Crimea, he also spent time not without benefit for himself. And such "capitalists" run around here in unafraid herds
      1. Skavron
        Skavron 15 May 2013 10: 35 New
        -1
        Quote: Misantrop
        They are waiting in Europe for these "capitalists"

        but the domestic market is not?
        and the inner and outer reach
        Quote: Misantrop
        Why, some manage.

        Well, I did not mean pure raiding
        namely by law
        while Ukraine will live according to the laws of the zone, then there will be no order
        what exactly did you do to stop Kunitsyn and the like?
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 15 May 2013 10: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Skavron
          but the domestic market is not?

          On the DOMESTIC market of Ukraine, local goods are squeezed out by import competitors (which their own governments lobby and sponsor). If in MOST Crimea most of the fruits and vegetables are imported, then where to go? For the time being, local producers are only saved by the fact that, with all its external beauty, the taste of import is most often simply NO
          Quote: Skavron
          what exactly did you do to stop Kunitsyn and the like?

          Maybe you can tell me a way to fight ON EQUALS a pensioner with a roofed (and more often - led) by the government criminal organized crime group? Such optimistic scenarios as in "Voroshilovskiy Strelka" are only in the cinema ... request So far, the only options are the publication on the Internet of emerging facts. Well, the message about them to acquaintances and colleagues from those who are working today in the power structures. Sometimes it helps, though not always. They are also not omnipotent.
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 15 May 2013 20: 26 New
            -1
            Quote: Misantrop
            .If in the Crimea, most of the fruits and vegetables are imported,

            You lied to you. Are virtual pluses and internetpogogons so attractive that they allow you to pour over your native land?
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 15 May 2013 22: 22 New
              0
              Quote: gladiatorakz
              pour over the Homeland
              Unlike some, I am still able to distinguish local fruits and vegetables from imported ones. Including because I know well the varieties of fruits and vegetables that are cultivated in Crimea. And the seasonality of their ripening. So I did not believe a word to resellers and henceforth I am not going to. I buy ONLY local varieties, although they do not look so marketable (and often cost more than imported ones). But this is fully offset by their quality (actual, not external). Here are just a dozen merchants now offer this product two or three, alas ...
              And if you already started to quote Bulgakov, then at least do not misinterpret wink
            2. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 16 May 2013 10: 39 New
              -1
              Quote: Misantrop
              Unlike some, I am still able to distinguish between local fruits and vegetables from imported

              Need to understand on the store counter?

              Quote: Misantrop
              I did not believe a word to resellers and henceforth I am not going to.

              So you are dealing with resellers, not manufacturers. That is, you absolutely do not own the figures for the grown products. For you, the glass is half empty. But this is not a reason to spread your pessimism to others and create a negative opinion about your region. Or do you think differently?
            3. Kars
              Kars 16 May 2013 10: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: gladiatorakz
              Need to understand on the store counter?

              Yes, no, before in the Crimea there were own pineapples and bananas, and now the dominance of imports.
            4. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 16 May 2013 11: 15 New
              0
              Quote: Kars
              Yes, no, before in the Crimea there were own pineapples and bananas, and now the dominance of imports.

              In large supermarkets - 50%. And in smaller ones I think less. But more important is the growth dynamics of grown products. For the last 2 years.
              By the way, in the 18th century pineapples and bananas were grown near St. Petersburg and Moscow. Greenhouses, hydroponics were developed. The Sheremetyevs, Demidovs and others owned kilometer-long greenhouses.
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 19 May 2013 11: 59 New
            0
            Quote: gladiatorakz
            Need to understand on the store counter?
            Near the house there is a food market. And in 15 minutes of unhurried walk - "Privoz" wholesale market of agricultural products (unlike Odessa, there are no "rags" here, only food. Although the name is the same)
            Quote: gladiatorakz
            So you are dealing with resellers, not manufacturers.
            It depends on what time you get there. If in the morning, then enough manufacturers. But closer to dinner, it is precisely the resellers who become more. Manufacturers (local) disperse, having thrown off the goods in bulk. Determining the region by car number is not the most difficult task, is it? And to estimate how much and what kind of carrying capacity of a vehicle at a given trading platform is also a task of unbelievable complexity. And what do they trade (most often - directly from the tailgate)
            Quote: Kars
            earlier in the Crimea there were own pineapples and bananas
            National food, without it - no way? request lol And I thought - fat, completely behind life ... recourse
            Have you heard about GNSS? State Nikitsky Botanical Garden, if not in the know. Located on the South Coast near Yalta. And about his steppe department? The main specialization under the USSR was fruit for the Kremlin. And I grew up nearby. There a lot of interesting and tasty things were grown there ... The present Ukrainians tasted nothing more than an unripe banana (feed varieties, by the way) and did not try
          3. Kars
            Kars 19 May 2013 15: 43 New
            +1
            Quote: Misantrop
            And I thought - fat, completely behind life

            Well, this is a brand. Personally, I do not really respect him.
            Quote: Misantrop
            Have you heard about GNSS?
            I have a lemon tree, but I do not sell lemons.
            Quote: Misantrop
            Many interesting and tasty things were grown there ... The present Ukrainians are nothing tastier.

            Well, why so, there is just seasonality all the same. And dads and avacados also sometimes want to.
  • Misantrop
    Misantrop 15 May 2013 10: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Skavron
    Well, I did not mean pure raiding
    namely by law
    And "according to the law" is HOW? These actions of Kunitsyn are known not only to people, but also to the authorities (including the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the SBU). With all papers and evidence. They are struggling with the consequences, and there is not even a case against him. This means that he acted according to the law ... request
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 15 May 2013 23: 36 New
      -1
      Quote: Misantrop
      And "according to the law" is HOW?

      and this is so when laws are enforced
      we have a choice, or make our follow laws
      or whine on the forums and ask for Russia under Putin’s wing
      I choose the first option
      By the way, Russia also has its own godfathers and no one really observes laws, but there are people who are against this (I'm not for Navalny right now)
      as for you, you don’t even see obvious ways out of the crisis
      it's a pity
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 16 May 2013 00: 18 New
        0
        Quote: Skavron
        we have a choice, or make our follow laws
        or whine on the forums and ask for Russia under Putin’s wing
        I choose the first option

        Have you chosen? Happy for you. Now I would still have to realize this choice ...
        Quote: Skavron
        as for you, you don’t even see obvious ways out of the crisis

        And how long have you been seeing them, these obvious ways? Share, do not keep in yourself, the salvation of a power depends on you ...
  • Garrin
    Garrin 15 May 2013 00: 14 New
    +2
    Quote: Skavron
    this is capitalism ... the fittest survives.

    From communication with relatives and friends, I can see how you "survive".
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 15 May 2013 10: 33 New
      0
      Quote: Garrin
      I see how you "survive".

      With God's help
      1. Garrin
        Garrin 15 May 2013 11: 09 New
        +2
        Quote: Skavron
        With God's help

        Hope for God, but don’t be bad. You don’t understand the most important thing. Geyropa, far from God for you.
        1. Skavron
          Skavron 15 May 2013 23: 32 New
          +1
          Quote: Garrin
          Geyropa, far from God for you

          hmm, I wrote somewhere that I am for the EU?
          if you find my comment, then me Mercedes
  • Makarov
    Makarov 13 May 2013 11: 57 New
    +1
    most of the large enterprises are not Ukrainian ... mainly a joint venture with Europeans or Russians, plus these benefits will not be removed soon .... and will they be removed at all?
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 13 May 2013 12: 43 New
      -6
      Quote: Makarov
      most large enterprises are not Ukrainian.

      name some large joint ventures pliz?
      1. Makarov
        Makarov 13 May 2013 23: 07 New
        +2
        Milkland, ProAgro ..... Pfeifer & Langen is an example of a foreign holding, Kernel Group ... it’s kind of Ukrainian with a lot of investors ...
        1. Skavron
          Skavron 14 May 2013 20: 10 New
          +1
          these are far from the largest whales; there are enough Ukrainian and much larger ones
          Elenovsky, Vanguard, Agromars ...
  • Garrin
    Garrin 15 May 2013 00: 20 New
    +3
    Quote: Skavron
    The future of Ukraine is the development of medium and small agricultural businesses ...

    Well, yes, through the production of shale gas on chernozems. It’s time to turn on the head, the orange gases to erode ...
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 15 May 2013 10: 38 New
      0
      Quote: Garrin
      Well, yes, through the production of shale gas on chernozems. It’s time to turn on the head, the orange gases to erode ...

      it's time for you to turn on your head and at least read me carefully,
      or ask how mining is different from small and medium-sized agriculture
      otherwise you give the impression of a very limited or backward person
  • Sochi
    Sochi 13 May 2013 09: 50 New
    +3
    Fall apart? Will the top lose power? Yes, and figs with him, with all this education ... Ordinary people feel sorry, because everyone will suffer.
  • Cherkas
    Cherkas 13 May 2013 10: 03 New
    -4
    It is nice, of course, that they pay attention to Ukraine, but the troubles of Ukraine are not in Yanukovych, but in culture, there will be culture, there will be an adequate society - everything will be fine. Love of one’s own language, one’s culture, one’s knowledge of one’s history, one’s respect for ancestors is the key to development, and today's power is the result of a split in society, on the one hand post-communist, and on the other hand pro-European. Only when people change their values, Ukraine begins to gain momentum, it is urgent to get rid of Soviet values, not even values, but the way of thinking of Soviet society, much was good. I’m afraid to not be understood about the way of thinking, therefore, for example: on May 9 in Zaporozhye we organize a big concert, invite stars, pay them big fees, 30 thousand people come, everyone is happy everyone celebrates Victory Day, and at that time veterans who now for more than 90 years they have not been able to buy normal sausages or meat for themselves, but for the money that they spent on a concert and on all those fireworks in the country that most veterans did not see and did not hear, it was possible for the veterans themselves to purchase something, but 30 thousand people think about it, young people thump, people come for the sake of artists and don’t think at all for whom this holiday is, all those 30 thousand are happy and do not see any problems while they are listening to their favorite artists, just as they admire the military parade and power of the country in North Korea while many die of hunger ... this must be gotten rid of.
    1. domokl
      domokl 13 May 2013 14: 40 New
      +5
      Quote: Cherkas
      thousand 30 people, everyone is happy everyone is celebrating Victory Day, and at that time veterans who are now more than 90 years old cannot afford to buy normal sausages or meat,
      Cunning .. young man. That's right ... Why celebrate the Victory then? We will give the veterans sausages, meat and fine. And the youth and why not know that the Nazis and their mercenaries were defeated, including the Ukrainians.
      Several problems are solved at once: the nationalists who fought for Germany become fighters for independence, Victory becomes a holiday for another state, and veterans can be compared for benefits. Both the Soviet winners (they seem to be nothing to do with here) and the Nazi (they fought for independence).
      Do you want to deprive Ukraine of the title of winners of fascism? Do you want today's boys to not celebrate this holiday? It will not work. As long as there are veterans in Ukraine, as long as there are their children and grandchildren, it will not work.
      1. Cherkas
        Cherkas 13 May 2013 14: 57 New
        -4
        Cunning? I’m just talking about this, about your case. You asked the veterans themselves what is better for them? I brought my grandmother alone at the DKTPK on May 8, they gave me a set of some products, my grandmother was quite a few years old, so she forgot some kind of certificate that the veteran was sorry, but you don’t have a certificate, she that way, but they’re no bastards, I took and bought the main products for this grandmother and on behalf of this organization I apologized, I don’t know if I took it, I didn’t open the door, I left it under the door. So what is the matter of such veterans to Pavaliy, Rotaru, etc. who came singing about love and left with 10 thousand dollars, the story must be remembered and the story should be studied at school and told by parents, not parades, the money for which could go to the same pensioners, and if the money were already like that, then please A parade is good, a holiday, but that's just not when the pensioners themselves are in poverty. And those who fought on the side of the Nazis, you do not know their history well, people must understand both of those. We had a program last Friday, a historical competition on the Second World War between schoolchildren from Odessa, Kiev, Kharkov and Lviv, Savik Shuster on May 10 and they more or less found common ground and the president was our first judge there, look, I agree with the atmosphere that was there.
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv 13 May 2013 15: 12 New
          +3
          Oh yeah Savik Shuster- "iconic figure", still that explosive mixture:
          "Savik Shuster (nee Shevelis Mikhailovich Shusteris; November 22, 1952, Vilnius, Lithuanian SSR, USSR) - Ukrainian [1] journalist and TV presenter. Author and host of the weekly television show" Shuster live "on the Ukrainian TV channel" Inter ", general producer of the production company "Savik Shuster Studio".

          Citizen of Canada and Italy [source?]. Fluent in Lithuanian, Russian, Italian, English, German, French, Ukrainian.

          Calls his beliefs liberal. ",
          So watch it yourself we have seen enough on NTV.
          1. Cherkas
            Cherkas 13 May 2013 15: 18 New
            -5
            And you can’t stop looking at him, the younger generation from all regions of the country and the first president are represented there.
            1. Mhpv
              Mhpv 13 May 2013 16: 35 New
              +4
              Your Savik is an ordinary journalist, a citizen of Canada and Italy, but not Ukraine, and with his programs, like many TV presenters, he works out his bread. In addition, many TV presenters are not bad philosophers and know that "people hawala" is the best, plus they raise the ratings of TV channels. So you can don't recommend it anymore.
            2. Misantrop
              Misantrop 15 May 2013 10: 36 New
              +1
              Quote: Cherkas
              And you can’t hide it
              I was in one of his programs, sitting in the hall as a voter. Disgusting impression, to be honest. Especially - after he drew attention to the changes in the results of the voting of the hall AFTER everyone voted. It is necessary to explain in detail what does this mean? wink
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 15 May 2013 09: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: Cherkas
          Cunning? I’m just talking about this, about your case. You asked the veterans themselves what is better for them?
          Well, yes. First, drive them into poverty for many years, and then ask what kind of delights people would like ... Throw veterans into the steppe for a week without any means of provision, then you can make a person happy with a cup of water and a piece of bread
          Quote: Cherkas
          And those who fought on the side of the Nazis, you do not know their history well, people must understand both of those. We had a program last Friday, a historic competition on the Second World War between schoolchildren from Odessa, Kiev, Kharkov and Lviv, Savik Shuster
          Do you study history on Schuster? belay wassatSchoolchildren, especially the current ones, know it much better than those who survived all this ... laughing
    2. vadson
      vadson 14 May 2013 02: 14 New
      +3
      one question, are you not ashamed of your state, of your power before the veterans? survived. By the way, besides the question of sausage and the day of victory, ask the veterans if they now had a choice to rot in labor camps or fight fascism again knowing that the alliance would fall apart and they would again "starve like in war" what would they choose? I think they would beat the fascists on a new one because it was freedom from enslavement.
  • Phoenix s
    Phoenix s 13 May 2013 10: 07 New
    +8
    The salvation of Ukraine is to shut up the mouths of nationalists and join the customs union. Unfortunately, Russophobic sentiments in Ukraine are fueled by these nationalists with the desperation of the losers ...
    1. MG42
      MG42 13 May 2013 11: 48 New
      +7
      Quote: Phoenix-S
      Salvation of Ukraine - shut up the mouths of nationalists

      Judging by the celebration of May 9 and the parades in Ukraine, the nationalists did not even flutter too much >>> under the current government, they demolished the monuments to Bandera, the authorities themselves are fighting with them as competitors, as for the TC = the Party of Regions is a party of business, here they consider the benefit from the TC, so far only They decided to limit themselves to observer status, if they sign the association in October 2013, then we will definitely not get into the TS already under the Yanukovychs.
  • Skavron
    Skavron 13 May 2013 10: 07 New
    -3
    another rewrite from Boval ...
    Valera, what beer has not earned yet?
    Come to me, I'll put you to the lathe ... maybe the benefit for the country will come out of you ... well, or the nonsense will come out. I do not know the right word.
    1. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 13 May 2013 11: 36 New
      +5
      Quote: Skavron
      Come to me, I'll put you to the lathe ... maybe the country’s benefits will come of you

      He seeks benefit for himself, and not for the country. The country is on his side.
  • 120352
    120352 13 May 2013 10: 24 New
    +3
    It's very simple. And there is a "knurled path: the decisions of the Pereyaslavl Rada.
  • fenix57
    fenix57 13 May 2013 10: 46 New
    +5
    Quote: Garrin
    Judging by the picture - Fruit.

    Yes, there was also vegetable! "I was ashamed" to lay out .... There is still "nobler" ...
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 15 May 2013 00: 26 New
      0
      Quote: fenix57
      "I was ashamed" to lay out .... There is still "nobler" ...

      Actually, the word "NOBILITY" with this mask is inappropriate. Doesn't fit like that.
  • knn54
    knn54 13 May 2013 10: 48 New
    +8
    A public opinion poll in GB showed that 49% of the population for leaving the EU, the number of people wishing to stay is 32%.
    The parliamentary elections in Italy were won by forces supporting the idea of ​​the country's exit from the EU.
    France warned that it would exit (from the Schengen agreements) if the EU did not tighten its migration policy and protect the labor market.
    The Germans doubt the future of the euro, as a single currency ...
    In general, "Repin's picture": "We are" there ", they are" from there ">!
    And in our country, the referendum was replaced by the desire of a dozen organized crime groups (I apologize) for FIGs and other puppets of the West.
  • Fuzeler
    Fuzeler 13 May 2013 11: 01 New
    +6
    Ukraine has been buried since 2006, since January. Constant phrases, such as, "Ukraine is falling apart", "Ukrainian society is split, the state will not stand" .... People! Well enough already, honestly! And after the rise in gas prices, it did not collapse, and after Yushchenko's illegal actions towards parliamentarians (in 2007 or 2008, I don’t remember), and before these events - after all, figuratively speaking, SS march (or UPA march). Not tired, huh? It will not fall apart anywhere. You must understand - this is its historically normal state (do not be offended by the Ukrainians), because the Sich (or the Hetman region, correct) was always seething, and simple Ukrainian peasants who were pulling this whole seething cauldron paid for all this.
    1. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 13 May 2013 11: 49 New
      14
      Quote: Fuzeler
      Ukraine has been buried since 2006, since January. Constant phrases, such as, "Ukraine is falling apart", "Ukrainian society is split, the state will not stand."

      If they are buried, then someone needs it. The question is to whom? They are buried on Russian channels (not to be confused with the Russians), but to whom do they belong? Some Jews are the owners. And why do Jews need Russians to be friends with Ukrainians? Correctly not why. What if they start to be friends, and get out of the yoke together? (I ask especially zealous "patriots" not to kick yourself in the chest. YES, the Russians are also in the yoke. And do not shout anything about gas, oil, timber, diamonds. At least one Russian was fueled free of charge? Or was it given a board? Do they need it? They need shob, we poured slops on each other, fought for the forelocks. They booted, injected, took the exam, etc.
      1. xan
        xan 13 May 2013 13: 06 New
        -2
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        Have at least one Russian been refueled for free cars? Or have they given a board?

        straight character from the kitchen of the 70s, or Vysotsky’s songs about the madhouse
        nothing happens for free
  • alex13-61
    alex13-61 13 May 2013 11: 38 New
    +5
    Quote: Skavron
    the right laws to support the smallholder ...

    And at the expense of whom to support the agricultural producer ??? Not a single developed economy has abandoned heavy industry ... The defense industry is generally the most profitable ...
    And how many workers will be required, in the agricultural complex of Ukraine ??? The rest where ??? Or listen to the deceased Thatcher ???
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 13 May 2013 12: 04 New
      -4
      Quote: alex13-61
      And at the expense of whom to support the agricultural producer ???

      higher answer
      Quote: alex13-61
      Not a single developed economy has abandoned heavy industry ...

      and who refuses? Did I write this?
      Quote: alex13-61
      And how many workers will be required, in the agricultural complex of Ukraine ???

      a lot, and count the "hands" that will not only work directly "in the countryside", but also subcontractors, infrastructures, suppliers ...
      1. alex13-61
        alex13-61 13 May 2013 12: 39 New
        +4
        What about the defense industry, aircraft manufacturing, metallurgy?
        1. Skavron
          Skavron 13 May 2013 12: 45 New
          -5
          Can you read?
          Quote: Skavron
          and who refuses? Did I write this?

          Do you have any questions?

  • MG42
    MG42 13 May 2013 11: 53 New
    +4
    The author of the article <+> feels the growth.
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 13 May 2013 12: 04 New
      -6
      Quote: MG42
      The author of the article <+> feels the growth.

      Height?
      Yes you are my friend color blind
      1. MG42
        MG42 13 May 2013 12: 27 New
        +8
        Quote: Skavron
        Yes you are my friend color blind

        The article is good. I expressed my opinion >>> did not contact you. Arguments in the style of "the fool himself" will not wait.
        I have already noticed that the local Natsik even neutral articles like this just enrage.
        1. Skavron
          Skavron 13 May 2013 12: 39 New
          -6
          Quote: MG42
          neutral articles like this

          I recommend taking all the articles of Boval and re-reading.
          in fact, the meaning is the same, only the words change places, and therefore REWRITE !!!
  • individual
    individual 13 May 2013 12: 22 New
    12
    They ruined the great country alive, into pieces of nezalezhnosti, or whatever happened. They separated the people - some into apartments, some into huts, and some into "halabuds". Lies, envy, intolerance, financial bondage - these are the modern attributes of communication between the Slavs. Something must happen in the world that will radically change our consciousness, our vision of the absurdity of existing realities.
    It all depends on Russia.
    The statehood of patriots will be strengthened. The economy of Russia will be improved. And around us a great community is formed called RUS.
  • Noni4
    Noni4 13 May 2013 12: 31 New
    -10
    The same thing every day, falling apart .... blah blah blah. Where do such articles come from?
    1. anton107798
      anton107798 13 May 2013 16: 02 New
      -8
      Quote: NONI4
      Where do such articles come from?


      FROM HERE))) It’s a pity I’ve finished school a long time ago, and I would write essays on these articles about Ukraine only! What is not a day is Ukraine in the first articles.
      And most importantly, how many such articles were written here, countless! But no people and on both sides again begins to prove each his own innocence.
      But my friend went home, to his homeland in Vladivostok, was born there, but as it happened in the USSR we moved to Ukraine. So, at the border, a Russian border guard clung like a drunk to the radio, a friend said to him, "I'm mine. Russian! Why are you clinging?" And he answered him - "WE ARE BELARUSIANS NATIVE"
      So the question is: Will there be the same Russian who lives in Ukraine, after such communication at the border, vote for the CU in a referendum? I wildly doubt ....
      1. boreas
        boreas 13 May 2013 17: 27 New
        +4
        Well, if by such "everyday" moments to judge the advisability of choosing this or that life path, then you will go far !!! Do not forget that this "border guard" most likely knows how Russia is "respected" in Ukraine !!! Holodomors, gallichin marches, the prohibition of the Russian language, etc. !!! In accordance with your logic, the Russians should have long ago "spit" on the delirium about friendship and forget Ukraine in the figs !!! I myself had the "pleasure" to travel to the Crimea under its own power and I know how your guardians of order both on the border and on the road show "warm friendliness" to your Russian brother !!!
        1. anton107798
          anton107798 13 May 2013 17: 52 New
          -5
          Quote: Northwind
          "hot friendliness


          respond to the friendliness of your border guards. But there was no famine? And my great-grandfather survived him just, and I believe his words more. Galychyna marches? So they are in Galicia and pass, but what does the rest of Ukraine have to do with it? or in Sevastopol also took place when the march? The ban of the Russian language? nonsense again! Where was he banned? name district, region. Where?
          1. ed1968
            ed1968 13 May 2013 20: 09 New
            +4
            Russian people suffered from famine if you don’t know
          2. boreas
            boreas 14 May 2013 10: 17 New
            +1
            There was a hunger !!! Hunger throughout the USSR !!! Or are you sure that only Ukraine was specially stained ??? Gallichina say not all of Ukraine. So Vladivostok is not the whole of Russia !!! Russian is prohibited in Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk in municipal and public places, you will not receive legal and other services in relation to the authorities in Russian !!!
          3. trenitron
            trenitron 20 May 2013 21: 23 New
            0
            You dear heard anything about the Volga starving? And about the extermination of the peasantry in the Tambov region. The Holodomor, interpreted by unpretentious Ukrainian pseudo-politicians, is just a way of inciting Russophobia.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 13 May 2013 12: 46 New
    +1
    Yes, let it fall apart already, as if there was some benefit from the oligarchy there.
  • Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 13 May 2013 12: 56 New
    -2
    Is there life on Mars, is there life on Mars, is Ukraine closer to Russia, or not Russia - science does not know this what
  • borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 13 May 2013 13: 03 New
    +7
    from the Don.
    It may not be the topic, and all the same. In the neighborhood a German came to visit his daughter. A German, who is among almost 6 million people. under Bore-: tsar: they left for Germany. He is disabled, and all the benefits for the disabled are saved. But as for everyone else, you have to tighten your belts more tightly. And more and more young people want to go back to Russia. So not all, what glitters is gold!
  • kind
    kind 13 May 2013 13: 04 New
    10
    Caught in an almost stalemate situation, Kiev had no choice but to discard stubbornness and comment more restrainedly on IMF actions and conditions.

    At first Kiev was teased with bait, and when he tried it, they hooked it. Now, alas, on the hook, and the IMF is carefully pulling it to the shore, and there the water in the bowler is already boiling. Ear from Ukraine will be rich!
  • Sashko07
    Sashko07 13 May 2013 14: 06 New
    -6
    Quote: domokl
    Quote: aszzz888
    They will start again (the leaders of Ukraine) to break the hat in front of the mericatos.
    They didn’t stop ... Ukraine is so tired of everyone that now there is no interest in the problems of this country either in the West or in the East. Russia is occupied with other issues. The main conflict remains-Sevastopol .. The rest is practically resolved. The Ukrainian GTS can be turned off at any moment without consequences especially for Russia, Ukrainian industry (remember Antonov’s company) can easily be replaced by similar Russian ones ...
    Anyway, Europe will snatch its money from Ukraine, but now at the cost of Ukraine itself ... what we have been talking about for a long time now ... And this country has to live exactly until the next president’s election (I see no one but Klitschko for this post )

    You are so interesting, but there is nothing that not only the Ukrainian economy is strongly tied to the Russian one, but also vice versa, there is nothing that many Russian oligarchs have a business in Ukraine or a share in it, and if Ukraine becomes bad, then the wallet of Russian business will become bad as well and along with it the Russian economy, or do you think if the oligarch lost his business in Ukraine and, accordingly, the money will pay more taxes to the treasury? I am already silent about a number of joint projects, especially in the missile industry, who will you develop interballistic missiles if you lose Ukraine (who does not know modern Russian missiles are made with the help of Yuzhnoye Design Bureau, and by the way, even under Yushchenko, joint work continued in this spectrum)?

    Or maybe someone needs not flattery not in his sled, you have your own problems above the roof in Russia, if you don’t have to bother that Ukraine, then it’s not so, then it’s not that. Or do you mention the word Ukraine begins to itch in one place? So go to the doctor, he will prescribe an ointment for you, but it’s better to go to a psychiatrist right away.
  • Kowalsky
    Kowalsky 13 May 2013 14: 21 New
    +6
    Supreme Zrada is a mythical formation in a parallel universe. Population 450 people. + - several hundred hangers-on. The production of bureaucratic waste paper under the Zakon brand is developed on an industrial scale.

    For the night, terrible tales tell children about this place. The portal to Zrada is presumably located on the territory of Ukraine, which lives quite normally even despite the existence of this Zrada and no less mythical Governments with the President. The people have long been considering the idea of ​​organizing around the Zrada a thirty-kilometer exclusion zone of the Chernobyl type and assigning all of its inhabitants an official status of zradniki.
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 13 May 2013 14: 21 New
    +1
    I think we will really live without Ukraine, just return Crimea to us and force us to open the borders for us and let the rest go to hell, by the way, for joining the European Union, Ukrainians will need an ointment for one place, but how do you like it? Now only through bed .
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 13 May 2013 14: 40 New
      -9
      Quote: Standard Oil
      we will only regain Crimea and make us open the borders for us

      But will not it be bold to you?
      and from what side do you have something to return?
      your face will crack, my friend ...
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 13 May 2013 14: 59 New
        0
        It’s not going to crack, this time, secondly, it’s not me but Russia, I absolutely don’t give a damn about Ukraine and its opinion, it can at least join the Gayropei Union, at least by nature, the interests of Russia are important to me, and its interests are Crimea.
        1. Skavron
          Skavron 13 May 2013 15: 25 New
          -9
          Quote: Standard Oil
          and her interests are Crimea.

          yah? What other interests of Russia do you know? Or are you her official representative?
          Do you have any interests in Alabama for an hour?
          well, clown-pickers with a pair of domocles ...
  • fenix57
    fenix57 13 May 2013 14: 28 New
    +6
    Quote: Good
    At first Kiev was teased with bait, and when he tried it, they hooked it. Now, alas, on the hook, and the IMF is carefully pulling it to the shore, and there the water in the bowler is already boiling. Ear from Ukraine will be rich!

    ++++++ Beautifully said !!! That would be at the very beginning -EVENING! hi good
    1. vadson
      vadson 14 May 2013 02: 26 New
      0
      and you can:
      street lamp pharmacy ...
      it was getting dark ...
      but in general your evening was reminded by a monologue about Russian from the movie 72 meters :-)
  • not good
    not good 13 May 2013 14: 34 New
    +6
    The whole trouble is that as a result of the actions of this circus community, called the Verkhovna Rada, law-abiding citizens of Ukraine suffer, and the politicians, having appointed themselves a decent salary in front of people for their actions, are not responsible and are slowly driving the country into a corner. It’s a pity that the people will again be extreme. When (if) there are referendum results, such a show will begin that Comedy Club will seem like a kindergarten, we are waiting ...
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 13 May 2013 15: 38 New
    +3
    Quote: domokl
    I meant normal states, not Ukraine

    Briefly, but how true.
  • My address
    My address 13 May 2013 16: 22 New
    +6
    I repeat.
    According to the UN data from 187 countries on the human development index, Norway is in the first place, Belarus is on 50 and (78) is Ukraine. According to various sources, the gross domestic product per capita in Belarus is one and a half to two times (!!!) higher than the Ukrainian one. The backlog of Ukraine is increasing. This is how 22 was led by the country, which has a non-freezing sea, was good by Russian standards (and by Belarusian just beautiful), transport, industry, agriculture, climate!
    One of my teachers, the foreman, said that talent was also needed for the collapse of established production.
  • Oleg
    Oleg 13 May 2013 18: 48 New
    -8
    Yes, the impression is as always, Ukraine and Ukrainians are bad, poor, beggars, etc. Well done! It’s obvious that you were gathered here from all sites, Ukrainophobes! Go ahead, minus! drinks with the last day of remembrance of the dead in WWII!
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 May 2013 22: 45 New
      +5
      Quote: olega
      with the last day of remembrance of the dead in WWII!

      That's for it - minus!
  • Oleg
    Oleg 13 May 2013 18: 55 New
    -8
    Great-grandfather and two grandfathers perished in the USSR - Ukrainians ... And because of Putin’s show off to crush Ukraine, you are economically tearing up your hunger!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • ddmm09
    ddmm09 13 May 2013 19: 46 New
    +6
    Quote: olega
    Great-grandfather and two grandfathers perished in the USSR - Ukrainians ... And because of Putin’s show off to crush Ukraine, you are economically tearing up your hunger!

    I want to reassure you, this is democracy, this is the usual commodity-money relationship! .. The meaning of being offended?!. You, too, will not give anything back to us at half price, so everything is fine.
  • uizik
    uizik 13 May 2013 19: 48 New
    +4
    Probably the fate of Ukraine to be an eternal litter. If it signs an agreement with the EU, it will be the finish of the current government. They think that Kiev is all of Ukraine.
    1. Oleg
      Oleg 13 May 2013 20: 00 New
      -1
      It is useless to argue here, everyone has their own opinion ... For me, it is necessary to cooperate in all areas, to develop what is best for us, and not to measure who has more ...
  • My address
    My address 13 May 2013 20: 12 New
    +7
    In 80's, I was on business trips in the east and in the center of Ukraine more than once, and the Ukrainians went to us. Relationships were comradely, and with some friendly. Then the Ukrainians lived much better, but they were not condemned, it was believed that they were hard workers, plus a wonderful climate. I myself heard then that Georgians, Azeris and Latvians massively believed that Russia was living at their expense. The first time I heard about the robbery by Russians of Ukraine from an idiot in Dnepropetrovsk in 87 or 88, he was immediately taken away by his comrades, then they constantly apologized for him. And in 90's, everything around was already blaming Russia for robbery. Moreover, the Russians, at least my acquaintances, of whom thousands and many of them workers, did not blame others. I am proud that the Russians turned out to be more decent.
    They lived for more than twenty years separately. And How? It became better to nations? I don’t like our government, it was possible to do a lot of good in Russia. But what they have done with Ukraine is completely beyond even just a fool in half with idiocy. It's a shame how it was robbed of the former good neighbor and made him a homeless man.
  • xway
    xway 13 May 2013 20: 45 New
    -3
    Incorrect analysis, with its usual point of view. There will be a collapse, it is already underway. Just the collapse of what?
    There will be a collapse of power created by Soviet standards, and not of the people. In Ukraine there will be a power of another
    type
  • pawlo77
    pawlo77 13 May 2013 20: 50 New
    +6
    Ah Ukraine, my pain! I am sincerely sorry for this long-suffering and patient people kindred to us. my parents live there and it is very unpleasant for me when they speak badly about Ukrainians. they didn’t deserve a bit of the fact that this coffin was brought to them .. politics brought.
  • shpuntik
    shpuntik 13 May 2013 20: 59 New
    +3
    Let Ukraine make independent decisions. Only then, ordinary Ukrainians, do not make claims to the fraternal Russian people. As an example: An-70. You ask us on the forum: "Why don't you order?" Yes, because the same. Earlier it was necessary to think. And who asked to help the Chinese, to build an analogue?
    Forced to pull the "Nord Stream", etc., etc.
    Europa is afraid to accept you on an equal footing because she will choke and fall apart. You will be on the sidelines, as the Baltic states are now. Nuclear plants closed up and then what? The brain was washed by the Russian community, and there wasn’t even a drop of truth: these republics as part of the USSR lived better than anyone else, there was a high-tech industry.
    Oh, Morozova! What else can you say?
  • nok01
    nok01 13 May 2013 21: 19 New
    +4
    We have already been saved, we have become "independent" winked
  • Don_etsk
    Don_etsk 13 May 2013 22: 38 New
    0
    Quote: Sashko07
    Or maybe someone needs not flattery not in his sled, you have your own problems above the roof in Russia, if you don’t have to bother that Ukraine, then it’s not so, then it’s not that. Or do you mention the word Ukraine begins to itch in one place? So go to the doctor, he will prescribe an ointment for you, but it’s better to go to a psychiatrist right away.

    Right!!!
    And from Yanukovych, if you do not tell me, the sense is more than from all the previous combined