India to purchase additional Rafale-M fighter jets for its aircraft carriers

India plans to expand its order for French Rafale fighter jets. According to French media, New Delhi plans to equip all its aircraft carriers with the naval version of the fighter.

The Indian Air Force has decided to go beyond the 114 Rafale fighters it has already purchased for its air force, ordering the navalized version of the Rafale-M. Initially, the order is for an additional 31 fighters. While other details of the potential deal are still unclear, if this agreement is signed, India will purchase a total of 145 Rafale fighters from the French.

According to the media, the choice of French aircraft is a political decision, not a military one. On the other hand, the country's Air Force already operates 36 Rafale fighters, which even took part in the conflict with Pakistan. And last year, the Indian Navy ordered 26 navalized versions of the aircraft for a new aircraft carrier.

The purchase is primarily a political choice for Delhi. France's Dassault Aviation is implementing a localization program in partnership with the Indian defense industry.

As previously reported, India plans to receive only 18 fighter jets from France, with the remainder assembled at a facility owned by private company Reliance Defence in Nagpur. Initially, India will focus on manufacturing fuselages and airframe components. Production will then expand. State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will handle aircraft maintenance and the integration of Indian weapons systems onto the French aircraft.

Comments

[tralflot1832]

Trump must stage a "confidence scam".

[Aken]

trust scam

I will be watching the situation develop with great interest.

[SAG]

It's a scam, I suppose, but Trump has nothing to do with it... If the Indians manage to outwit the frogmen, I'll have a newfound respect for them. We'll see how this all plays out in a couple of years.

[Maxim G]

Well, even the Pakistanis openly admitted in the media that this is a serious modern aircraft.
And France has been a long-standing partner of India in aviation, as well as China with its handicrafts.

[Andrey Malashchenkov]

The Pakistani military officially stated that they managed to shoot down at least five Indian Air Force aircraft during the battle. As sources added, these included three Rafale, as well as one MiG-5 and Su-29MKI (this is evidenced by a photo of the K-30DM ejection seat). Thus, the greatest losses were suffered by the French-made fighters, 36 of which were purchased in 36. Just a week ago, 2016 units of the carrier-based version (Rafale M) were also purchased.

The Pakistanis may have found it good, but what is it good for?

[Maxim G]

What difference does it make to you?

Quote: Andrey Malashchenkov

The Pakistanis may have found it good, but what is it good for?

[Andrey Malashchenkov]

A stupid question can only be answered stupidly, so please allow me not to answer...

[Maxim G]

I allow it.
Ask smart questions from now on.

[novel66]

Who would argue - the issue is more about the inadequacy of the price and the fraud of both France and India

[Maxim G]

About the price.
The contract for the wife includes not only the planes, but also maintenance and spare parts.

[novel66]

Moreover, here the toad-eaters are ahead of the rest of the world

[Wildcat]

About the price.
The contract for the wife includes not only the planes, but also maintenance and spare parts.

The local elite won't even understand such words.
You need to write it more simply: "The Frogs will also sell disco dancers a tire service and paint job, maintenance, and oil changes; they'll also sell consumables and a fragrant Christmas tree for the showroom. Not for a Peugeot, though, but for a Rafale.
Cunningly crafted turban bearers! (tm)".

[Maxim G]

The guys don't know that French helicopters were produced under license in India.
And now French engines are installed in new models.

The cooperation is long-standing.

[bayard]

Quote: Maxim G

The contract for the wife includes not only the planes, but also maintenance and spare parts.

For comparison, the full contract export price of the Su-35S, which is undoubtedly superior and also a heavy fighter, is around $100-110 million. This includes spare parts, consumables, spare engines, ASP, simulators, and pilot and aircraft technician training.
But for the Indians, it's more about politics and acquiring technology and expertise, since they plan to assemble them domestically (i.e., these aren't even finished aircraft, but rather licensed kits). And in return, they receive most-favored-nation treatment in trade with the EU.
Regarding the deck-based versions, it is also understandable: the service life of the deck-based MiG-29K/KUB is gradually being used up, a replacement is needed, and besides, it is desirable to have the same type of deck-based fighters.

[solar]

The standard price for aircraft is 4,5. The Eurofighter costs the same.

[Anthony]

It feels like India's aircraft numbers are, as they say, too much. Their fleet is good, but all things being equal, they'll lose to any rival.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Antony

It feels like India's aircraft numbers are, as they say, too much. Their fleet is good, but all things being equal, they'll lose to any rival.

The Indians may not be the best pilots in the world, but they've repeatedly kicked the Americans' ass in training battles with our Su-30MKIs. So, it's not all clear-cut.
And the Rafale was bought by the aviation elite from the Kshatriya caste. Well, what's it like—what's more sophisticated? Mercedes, Ford, Alfa Romeo, or Renault? And not based on off-road capability—Niva or Bukhanka? Plus, the kickbacks come from the deal price. So what we got was a "political" choice of horse, not a combat one!

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

No, it's just that the MiG-29 is outdated, and the MiG-35 turned out to be nothing like what they said it would be. India bought the Rafale because Russia couldn't offer anything worthwhile and missed the chance to make money and develop its aviation industry.

This is yet another failure of Rostec and its leader Chemezov personally.

[Patriot is listening]

Why Rostec right away? What budget is there for such a product?

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

In our Su-30MKIs, they repeatedly kicked the Americans' ass in training battles.

They beat us up. Once. An F-15C with an old radar. They stipulated not to use AIM-120 missiles.
In a real fight, that's exactly what will happen, right?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Puncher

They beat me up. Once.

Colleague! You and I probably read "different" books when we were kids!
But let's get back to our "sheep":
- Cope India Exercise 2004
In February 2004, mock combat exercises between Indian Su-30Ks and American F-15C/D Eagles took place at the 24th Squadron base (120 km from Kolkata). The Indian aircraft emerged victorious in nine out of ten duels. The Indians effectively utilized the N001 radar, giving them an advantage when launching air-to-air missiles and simultaneously targeting multiple targets. Following the results, a commission was appointed, headed by Assistant Air Force Minister Sambur.
- Cope India Exercise 2005
Indian Su-30MKIs engaged in dogfights with F-16s, which the F-16s typically lost. This was reported by the American newspaper Christian Science Monitor, which obtained information from witnesses and participants of the exercises, who published the information on blogs and forums.
- Red Flag Exercises 2008
In 2008, Indian fighters participated in the Red Flag exercises in Idaho, USA. In addition to Indian and American fighters, France and South Korea also participated. According to sources, the Su-30MKI fighters successfully completed the exercise, outperforming both the heavy F-15 and the light F-16.
After 2010, the Yankees banned the publication of specific results of the exercises in the open press, limiting themselves to general enthusiastic comments.
The Yankees are masters of PR! They even considered the F-35 "invisible" until the French showed it to the whole world darting through the sights of a Rafale.
AHA.

[TermNachTer]

The Toad-eaters have already localized production in India – they transferred secondary technologies that no one needs))) Now they're making a second attempt, the Indians have decided to jump on a new rake)))

[Ross xnumx]

I remember the British were tying Indians to cannons, now the French are joining the queue...
And every day I look at Indian students from Kemerovo State Medical University (KemSMU) and ask who's paying for this unprecedentedly generous attraction and why...

[Patriot is listening]

In India, the average age is around 20, while in Russia it's already 35. They have a very large young population and a rapidly growing economy. Why not?

[Ovsigovets]

average median age is 28 years))))

[batmanxnumx]

The average median age in Russia is 38,8 years, and the mean is 40,4 years.

[Ovsigovets]

I won't even argue.................................................................

[Comrade I]

The purchase is primarily a political choice for Delhi.

Are there better alternatives? So that the choice isn't "political," which ones should they have bought?

[HAM]

"Penguins"...and no politics, pure business.

[TermNachTer]

The Penguins are also a very problematic aircraft, and most importantly, there have been no technology transfers. Even NATO allies are only on hand.

[solar]

The Americans are not selling F-35s to India.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Comrade Y

The purchase is primarily a political choice for Delhi.

Are there better alternatives? So that the choice isn't "political," which ones should they have bought?

The author cites some press reports that "this is a political choice." But who knows what the press writes about. The Indians aren't as brainless as they're made out to be. And this choice is driven by the fact that we can't offer the Indians a carrier-based aircraft with the same performance as the Rafale. The reason is simple: without an aircraft carrier, which isn't expected in the foreseeable future, there's no point in developing such an aircraft. So, no politics involved. It's all about technology.

[Soldatov V.]

As far as I remember, we have two land-based training complexes in the form of an aircraft carrier deck, which means we can develop carrier-based aircraft. Both conventional carrier-based aircraft and VTOL aircraft. For now, the main thing is to maintain the skill and knowledge of designing such aircraft.

[solar]

As far as I remember, we have two land-based training complexes in the form of an aircraft carrier deck, which means we can develop carrier-based aircraft.

And what's the point if there is no aircraft carrier for them and there is no prospect of one?

[Soldatov V.]

The point is that everything flows and everything changes. Something might not be needed today, but tomorrow it will be urgently needed. Don't live for today. Kuznetsov will be left as a training ship, and then professionals will come and restore the fleet, including the aircraft carriers.

[solar]

By the time real aircraft carriers appear, the carrier-based aircraft currently being developed will be obsolete.

[Soldatov V.]

Carrier-based aircraft can also fly from coastal airfields. Not every pilot can fly over the sea, and navigating is a skill, too. Don't be pessimistic.

[Ovsigovets]

Building an aircraft carrier (even if we start right now) is a very distant TOMORROW

[novel66]

If you need a universal aircraft, then the F-18.

[tralflot1832]

Quote: ROSS 42

such an attraction of unheard-of generosity...

I'll tell you a secret: the Kemerovo tanker carries oil to India.

[smart fellow]

The country's air force already operates 36 Rafale fighters, which even took part in the conflict with Pakistan.

No longer 36 after the conflict.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

In general, the matter is more or less clear.
The Indians will only be able to use the MiG-29K, Rafale-M, Super Hornet and F-35V for their non-catapult aircraft carriers.
The Penguin vertical-lift is very expensive and demanding to operate, so much so that even within the US it only flies on major holidays. And the vertical-lift's performance characteristics are so-so. So India definitely doesn't need it.
The MiG-29—alas, the design bureau's near-death experience is obvious, and the MiG-29K has proven problematic for the Indians. Admittedly, the Indians have themselves to blame, as they tried to avoid MiG services by servicing the MiG-29K themselves, but...
But the simple fact is that a carrier-based fighter isn't purchased for decades, and so the Indians risk RSK MiG going belly-up and being unable to maintain it, while the Indians themselves couldn't. So why bother with such a conundrum?
So that leaves the French and the American—the good old Hornet. Well, given that India already has Rafales and no Hornets, the choice in favor of the French is obvious.

[TermNachTer]

I read about a pilot who taught Indians how to take off and land from a Gorshkov. Even though the deck landing was a controlled descent, the Indians managed to slam the MiG onto the deck so hard he was afraid it would fall apart. He doesn't know why. Either the Indian pilots were poorly trained, or they just didn't care. We'll see how long the Rafale lasts after such rough landings.

[Eug]

Indian pilots on the MiG-29K regularly exceeded the landing speed by 10-20 km/h, citing a supposed lack of maneuverability at the speed specified in the flight manual. The design bureau brushed these complaints aside, and I won't judge whether this was the case. But I do know of one such instance: the Indians complained about the light transmittance of the canopy glass, citing "the pilot's word." No technical justification was provided for the complaint, so they were politely told to go to hell.

[solar]

The vertical penguin is very expensive.

No more expensive than the Eurofighter or Rafale. The problem is that no one sells the F-35 to the Indians, no version of it.

Well, given that India already has Rafales and no Hornets, the choice in favor of the Franco is obvious.

The decision to purchase the first batch of Rafales was made after comparative tests with the Super Hornet.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote from solar

No more expensive than a Eurofighter or Rafale.

Why do you think so? More expensive
I'm not talking about the purchase price, but about the operating cost.

[solar]

I won't argue with the operating costs, especially since the issue isn't obvious, in my opinion. And in terms of the price of the aircraft themselves, the Eurofighter and Rafale are expensive, more expensive than even the more expensive versions of the F-35.

[Wildcat]

...India plans to receive only 18 fighter jets from France, and assemble the rest at the privately owned Reliance Defence facility in Nagpur. Initially, India will focus on manufacturing fuselages and airframe components. Production will then expand. State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will handle aircraft maintenance and the integration of Indian weapons systems onto the French aircraft.

We should learn from India:
"1."India's GDP by year: 1980–2025 (at current prices, IMF data)
2013 - 1 trillion. 856.7 billion dollars
2014 - 2 trillion. 039.1 billion dollars
...
2024 – $3,91 trillion
2025 – $4,19 trillion (forecast estimate)

2. "Russia's GDP in US dollars by year, 1992–2025 (at current prices, IMF data):
2013 - 2 trillion. 289,244 billion dollars
2014 - 2 trillion. 056,583 billion dollars
...
2024 – $2,16 trillion
2025 – $2,08 trillion (forecast estimate)
http://global-finances.ru/vvp-rossii-po-godam/"
10 years - GDP India's output has increased twofold.
We have... well...

[snow mountain]

India will purchase 145 Rafale fighter jets from the French.

Not a bad deal. And the French probably made a pretty penny for whoever was making the purchasing decisions.

[Hiller]

Do Indians plan??? They have seven Fridays in a week. Today they plan, tomorrow they refuse, the day after tomorrow they think. "We've been there, we know." Cunning turban-wearers!

[voyaka uh]

What choice do they have for deckhands?
Or Superhornet, or Rafale.
The MiG-29K and Su-33 are both problematic, with a number of accidents.
The Americans aren't selling the F35C. They don't have enough of them themselves, and they haven't been tested enough on aircraft carriers.

[solar]

The Americans do not sell the F35C.

The Americans are not selling any F-35s.
The F35C is a catapult-based aircraft, so it would probably be the F35B if they were selling it.