Russia's recycling fee is limping along.

Instrument of coercion

The recycling fee is like Schrödinger's cat—it's kind of there, but then again, it's not. Who, where, and when has seen the car recycling process in Russia? Of course, very old cars at landfills are shredded, but this is far from the scale of the state program. Everything is carried out exclusively by private businesses. Nevertheless, the recycling fee exists, and anyone can assess its impact on dealership prices. For example, a new imported car with an engine between 190 and 220 hp will have to pay 958 rubles in recycling fees at the border. Under any circumstances, recycling a car can't cost a million rubles.

The recycling fee is a relic of the times when Russia desperately wanted to join the World Trade Organization, thus masking the protectionism of its sovereign auto industry. Now, paying attention to the opinions of the WTO is pointless, so the recycling fee could easily be renamed a protective duty. It would be more honest. However, changing the names won't change the situation. And it's still far from perfect. Although the government is making an honest effort.

The main purpose of import duties on automobiles in Russia is to stimulate domestic production. The automotive industry has a significant multiplier effect: for every worker at an auto plant, there are 9-10 workers in related industries. For example, if Toyota establishes an assembly plant in Shushary, dozens of smaller factories will spring up across the country. Some make windshields, others weld tires, and still others roll out rolled steel. That's the ideal scenario.

In reality, cunning automakers were pulling a trick: they would disassemble finished cars into several components at home, transport them across the border as spare parts, and then assemble them at a plant in Russia. The duties were so high that this procedure allowed for a good margin in the end. This method is called zero SKD (semi-knocked-down) or semi-knocked-down assembly. The government feels cheated in this situation, and rightly so. It's forced to put pressure on these cunning foreigners. Targeted subsidies for companies that organize car production from domestically produced components are usually a good way to achieve this.

For example, the Chinese Haval is currently doing this in Tula – they recently opened an engine production facility there. Haval is still a long way off from becoming fully sovereign, and likely impossible, but it is a fairly reliable company in the Russian auto market. How does the state determine the level of localization in automotive production? For every component and assembly produced domestically, the manufacturer receives points, along with subsidies that allow it to maintain competitive prices. Where does the budget get the money? That's right, from the recycling fee. Russians, willing to buy powerful, luxury foreign cars at outrageous prices, contribute part of their income to supporting the auto industry for citizens with modest needs.

The leaders in terms of points awarded by the Ministry of Industry and Trade (the agency responsible for the assessment process) are, of course, the indigenous Russian companies VAZ, UAZ, and GAZ. This trio has preferential points ranging from 3500 to 5000. Next comes the aforementioned Haval, with a much more modest 2000 points. The Moskvich, which only recently managed to reach the 1500-2000 threshold, looks amusing. To achieve this, they had to organize welding and painting of the bodies.

Subsidies in the form of recycling fee refunds aren't the only benefits available to localized automakers. The government has also set a 3200-point threshold for vehicles eligible for government procurement. There are also preferential car loans available for vehicles not only manufactured in Russia but also those with a significant share of domestically produced components. Soon, foreign cars will be banned from operating as taxis.

The picture above looks very harmonious and good. However, the recycling fee and protectionism machine is working very slowly.

What's wrong with the consumer?

Ultimately, protectionism in the auto industry, like in any other industry, should benefit the consumer. There are plenty of jobs, high incomes, and the market doesn't suffer – cars sell. And at the same time, Russians haven't forgotten how to build modern cars. That's how China learned to produce cars. Let's remember that the Chinese auto industry has its roots largely in the Soviet Union. Who showed their Eastern brothers a real SUV? That's right, the Ulyanovsk guys with their UAZ-469. That's how the Beijing BJ210 was born, which has now been reborn as the modern and iconic BAW 212 in its homeland. It's sold here, but in China, hardly anyone would dare buy UAZ products.

Sixty years ago, China began by copying Soviet technology. Pictured is the Beijing BJ210.

Subsequently, the Chinese introduced very strict regulations on the import of foreign cars, simultaneously forcing companies to share patents and technologies. Now, Europeans are forced to impose tariffs on Chinese technology—there's no other way to combat it. This lyrical digression vividly demonstrates how protectionism can impact technological development in different ways.

In Russia, the goal is clear and simple: to get Chinese manufacturers to localize their production as much as possible within the country and minimize the import of imported equipment. At the same time, it would be good to avoid creating competition for AvtoVAZ. It's unclear whether this is discussed behind the scenes or is an unspoken rule, but Russian manufacturers have not yet localized their Chinese counterparts to the Granta, Vesta, and Largus. However, it's possible that such production hasn't been done in China for a long time.

The actual figures don't speak volumes about the recycling fee and everything associated with it. According to government plans, the localization rate was supposed to reach 55% in 2024, but it actually fell to 32,8%. Last year, new car sales fell by 18,4%, while the average price rose to a record 3,54 million rubles. Logically, the opposite should be true. The recycling fee makes domestic assembly more attractive, and prices stabilize as expensive imported equivalents leave the market. And this trend is only getting worse. More and more manufacturing plants are opening in Russia, which are beginning to compete for customers. And now, sales have fallen by almost a fifth of last year's volume.

Let's imagine a top manager at a Chinese auto company (there's no point in introducing other managers for now) weighing the risks and benefits of locating production in Russia. On the one hand, he sees a significant drop in demand. On the other, he sees an increase in the average price of a car and a strong government desire to make it more difficult to import fully assembled imported vehicles. All forecasts point to the same thing: demand won't improve in 2026. What will the Chinese manager do? He'll think twice before investing in localizing his brand. Why bother if demand isn't growing? He could also try to negotiate some exclusive benefits with the government. For example, barring companies from competitor lists from entering the country. This is part of the Eastern mentality.

The overall picture is bleak: there are few people interested in localization (and that remains true today), and prices have skyrocketed due to the unique market conditions. Consumers are putting off purchases until better times, resulting in a decline in sales. In recent years, a car has transformed from a necessity into a true luxury. Investments are compared to real estate. Sometimes it's hard to say which is easier to buy: an apartment or a new car. A side effect has been the virtual mothballing of the development of the domestic auto giant, AvtoVAZ. In the absence of price competition, Lada prices have soared to 2 million rubles and more. Meanwhile, the quality of cars from Tolyatti is universally criticized. The incident with the steering column locking up is worth a look.

History The recycling fee situation is developing against the backdrop of a chronic labor shortage. Labor shortages are widespread, including in critical industries, while the auto industry is being pushed to the limit. The day is not far off when migrant workers from Central Asia, India, and Afghanistan will have to be brought in to work on the assembly line.

The recycling fee requires urgent restructuring of its fundamental principles. It's not a matter of establishing domestic auto production at any cost, but rather providing citizens with high-quality and relatively affordable vehicles. A family car shouldn't cost as much as a cast-iron bridge.

Comments

[Hole puncher]

On the one hand, he sees a serious drop in demand.

He sees that Russians' solvency has plummeted, while loan interest rates have skyrocketed. Even without the recycling fee, car sales are declining.

The automobile industry has a significant multiplier effect: for every worker in an automobile plant, there are 9-10 workers in related industries.

China is switching to "dark factories" where there are no people, so if China (unexpectedly!) opens high-tech production in Russia, this will not create any new jobs for Russians.

[Uncle lee]

A family car shouldn't cost as much as a cast-iron bridge.

And it costs as much as a Boeing wing...

[Infinity]

I remember when Western foreign cars disappeared, everyone was spitting on the quality of Chinese ones. But now you realize that compared to the brainchild of the "domestic" auto industry (it's still a question how many of them actually have domestic parts), Chinese ones are actually very high-quality and high-tech.

But laugh it off (and there are tears in their eyes), but when discussing this huge new recycling fee, everyone forgets that it applies not only to passenger cars, but also to specialized equipment: trucks, construction equipment, agricultural machinery, and so on. And this despite the fact that often such equipment is not produced in Russia. Combined with the exorbitant Central Bank interest rate and the economic downturn, this spells disaster!

[Totor5]

What exactly is high-quality about a Chinese car? Maybe the disposable 1,5-liter turbo engine?

[purple]

Funny... these are disposable TSI from AVG... the engines in China are quite good

[Totor5]

Enough of these fairy tales - this is not a women's forum.

[purple]

Well, yeah... you seem to be stuck in the mid-2000s.
China is developing and constantly improving everything, now they have quite good engines

[Totor5]

No need to tell me fairy tales, buy it, drive it, then try to sell it.

China is always a copy, and always of lower quality, including a Volkswagen copy. The Chinese bought machine tools from Germany—that's true, they have joint ventures with the Japanese. But, for example, they still buy Aisin automatic transmissions from Japan, all-wheel drive clutches from America, Bosch electrics, and so on.
But VAZ is now more or less the same. The Vesta is assembled using the same templates as any budget car, be it Chinese or Hyundai. Components, welding, sealant coating, galvanizing—all of this has long been done according to the same budget standards, and they buy small parts from the same mass-market brands. Only the high-end brands, for example, have wiring from Japan, while the mass-market ones have the same brand, but made in China.
And you have to understand that even Hyundai and Kia were cutting corners by making copies of Mitsubishi 2,0-liter engines... but they started guzzling oil after 150-200,000 miles, while the Japanese didn't. Everything was 1:1, and everyone wondered what the problem was. But in America, they were sued, and it turned out they used cheaper casting metal! Do you think the Chinese don't do the same?

No one's focused on making reliable cars these days, so they're using small-displacement turbocharged engines, and now they're using Nikasil like Renault. Nikasil can only be applied in factory conditions, and it's mainly used in racing for one-off engines. But of course, the main ones now are sleeved blocks—and how many places can re-sleeve them? That's the whole point! And who's going to do that on a Chinese car? So, when it starts guzzling oil, the only solution is to buy a short block, but in reality, you're looking for someone to sell it to while it's still running. And then the whole mess begins, because the Chinese don't have adequate spare parts inventories, but they produce a ton of models (creating brands like Geely), and there's no law within China requiring them to produce parts for each model for a certain number of years. China has generally placed its bets on electric cars, and gasoline sales are getting worse and worse due to government subsidies for electric cars.

Personally, I'm all for the classics—cast iron and rebuildable pistons, without any turbos. And the VAZ has them, too. That's why the VAZ will last longer than the Chinese one, and longer than the Korean one. Unless, of course, management ruins it. I wish I were stuck in the 2000s—there were still decent cars back then.

[purple]

Well, the 2023 Chery Tiggo 4 has a completely cast iron block and a 1,5 engine. What's wrong with that?
This is just an example... and yes... the Chinese have American turbos and Japanese gearboxes... what's wrong with that? As for the number of models... it's marketing... they all have the same foundation... only the bodywork might be a problem... For example, Chery: its brands are Omoda, Kayak Chery Exceed, Soest, Tenet... I can't remember them all right now... but at the core, they have the same platform, engines, and parts.

[Totor5]

Chery has a cast iron stove, but not everyone does, and Chery isn't the whole of China. Cast iron is more of an exception. That's why VAZ is messing around with Chery.
Chinese engines aren't made to last, and repairing a VAZ is cheaper - the complete engine costs as much as a short block.
But that's the engine, then problems with the CVT start, or haven't you heard about this CVT that can break down before 100,000 kilometers and costs as much as a cast-iron bridge?
Electrical problems can also be added there.

That's why I say these are one-off cars for the first owner, and they're not designed with longevity in mind. They're all about marketing and glitz, like a tablet-like interior with an AI-powered design. Personally, I'm not that interested. But it might be fine for some. But why insist that the Chinese car is superior in every way and incredibly cool? I'd buy a SUV with a frame like a 70 Land Cruiser or something from the American or Japanese market, but it's right-hand drive.

[3x3zsave]

I would take a jeep on a Land Cruiser type frame.
I became curious: what about Defender?

[Totor5]

The Defender is a cross between a Niva and a UAZ with a strange stance and is no longer made.
Toyota Land Cruiser (J70) is still in production - you can get a new one.

[Evgeny_4]

Tablets are now on all cars.
And it's not even the Chinese who are the trendsetters here. It's the Germans.

[Totor5]

Modern Germans are the same crap, and Volkswagen makes cars for the Chinese in China and then drags the design from there to Europe.
Personally, I've completely lost interest in cars now—it doesn't matter whether it's a Mitsubishi or a Largus. The first time I drove a foreign car, everything seemed more civilized, smoother, quieter... but somehow there was no wow factor. For me, a Lada 9 is more different from a classic than a foreign car is from a Lada 9. Everything these days seems soulless—the same as a smartphone.

In general, I want simplicity, without all those screens, air conditioners, etc. I wonder if the Ulan will sell or not.

[alovrov]

Dear man from the late 90s: China is the largest exporter of automobiles in our century. And tell your silly tales to the Europeans and Americans who happily buy these same Chinese cars.

[Totor5]

Spain and Canada are in the top 10, so what?
I'm not telling stories, I'm expressing my opinion, and whether you like it or not is all the same to me.

[Evgeny_4]

Are the 1.5 turbochargers on Honda, VAG, Opel, Kia, Mercedes, Renault, Citroen, and BMW not disposable?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Puncher

China is switching to "dark factories" where there are no people, so if China (unexpectedly!) opens high-tech production in Russia, this will not create any new jobs for Russians.

China would benefit from migrant workers in assembly, but only in Russia! Otherwise, it's just a reason to kick out the "specialists" from the country, since they won't be needed for assembly.
But even the author, not to mention the “decision makers”, is only considering an outdated solution -
The day is not far off when we will have to invite migrant workers from Central Asia, India and Afghanistan to work on the assembly line.
But it should be like China - dark factories, and local jobs where there are now migrant gangs...

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

China and migrants in assembly, but only in Russia!!, will be quite profitable.

Not at all. Why rely on the quality of training for an individual worker if a 100% robotic line simply doesn't require it? A single person is a source of dust and dirt, they need to be fed, they need a controlled climate in the workshop, they need protective clothing, water and sewerage, not to mention lighting. They can get tired, their reaction time can change, their performance level fluctuates throughout the workday... If a robot can replace a human today, then what's the point? All that's needed is electricity, which is abundant in Russia (beyond the Urals) and relatively cheap.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

But it should be like China - dark factories, and local jobs where there are now migrant gangs...

This is for developed countries.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Puncher

Not at all. Why rely on the quality of training for an individual worker when a 100% robotic production line simply doesn't require it? A single worker is a source of dust and dirt, they need to be fed, they need a controlled climate in the workshop, they need protective clothing, water and sewerage, not to mention lighting.

The production line itself is expensive, and it needs a good working environment just as much as a person. The key here is what kind of pay this person receives. And here, a migrant worker, whose social security is tied to Russia, will be more profitable for a businessman who doesn't give a damn about Russia. And that's exactly what we're seeing. Only performed by homegrown champions of "Russian" business.

[Hole puncher]

She needs the climate in the workshop no less than a person does.

The temperature range for humans is 23–25°C in summer and 22–24°C in winter, air humidity 40–60%, oxygen content 19–20%, illumination 300–500 lux.
So what of these things does a robot need? Humidity and temperature ranges are wider, oxygen levels are irrelevant, and lighting is completely unnecessary. They can even operate in completely sealed, windowless spaces.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

And here a migrant, whose social security is tied to Russia, will be more profitable for a businessman who DOESN'T CARE about Russia.

Salaries, taxes, and social security contributions all need to be paid. Plus, whether a migrant or not, they need working conditions such as running water, sewerage, medical facilities, changing rooms, lunch areas, showers, and so on. Cleaning, lighting, and climate control are also essential.
They still need to be trained, supervised, instructed, and managed—in other words, they need additional management staff. The end result of a "dark factory" is a reduction in risks and costs.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Puncher

The temperature range for humans is 23–25°C in summer and 22–24°C in winter, air humidity 40–60%, oxygen content 19–20%, illumination 300–500 lux.

It's funny... To pass off the desired optimality as reality.
But! I personally manage complex electronic equipment that refuses to work at temperatures below 20°C and above 25°C, and humidity below 10%. It simply refuses to work. And I, for example, simply need to dress warmer or cooler and drink some water. But that's just a question about the demands of complex equipment.

Quote: Puncher

Salary, taxes, social contributions - they still need to be paid.

Personally, I'm all for robotization and mechanization of everything possible. But to fail to understand that a migrant just needs to pay a few things officially, and the rest is hidden under the table—well, that's just so-so... And to forget that in Russia, social security is blatantly placed on the state, not the employer, is like watching the world on Channel One TV...

Quote: Puncher

They still need to be trained, supervised, instructed, and managed—in other words, they need additional management staff. The end result of a "dark factory" is a reduction in risks and costs.

and for ROBOTIC PRODUCTION you need a lot of engineers, adjusters, and specifically for robots, and not for machine tools or welding.
To summarize: if you consider a migrant a skilled worker with a family to support, vacation time, and health insurance, then of course it's expensive. But as soon as the employer stops caring about all of this, that's it.
And here in Russia, if anything, that's precisely the approach we have. And it's even worsened by the deliberate Islamization and displacement of Russians and other indigenous peoples.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

But this is true, regarding the demanding nature of complex equipment.

We're talking about car manufacturing, right? I completely agree with you that, for example, at TSMC chip factories, the requirements are even stricter, and they even have vibration restrictions. But isn't car manufacturing exactly the same as chip manufacturing?

Quote: Vladimir_2U

It's just supposed to be paid officially, but the rest is in an envelope

Again, we're not talking about building a shopping center or digging a trench for a city water supply system. As far as I know from open sources, nothing like this has ever happened at car factories producing foreign-brand cars.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

and for ROBOTIC PRODUCTION you need a lot of engineers, adjusters, and specifically for robots, and not for machine tools or welding.

"A lot" isn't a number or a comparison between "before" and "after." For example, there's a video about a Xiaomi or XPeng car factory (I forget where I'm at) where they openly state that they employ staff to perform random post-production inspections, but the production itself is fully automated. That is, there's still no 100% confidence in automation. Even if you consider the need for a staff of repairmen and instrumentation engineers, it's still a pittance compared to traditional manufacturing.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

But as soon as the employer stops caring about all this, that's it.

I don't care. If they're planning on releasing a "Bukhanka" (a loaf of bread). If they're planning on releasing an Xpeng P7, for example, they won't let a migrant within cannon range of it.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Puncher

I think we're talking about car manufacturing, right? I completely agree with you that, for example, at TSMC chip factories, the requirements are even stricter, and they even have vibration restrictions.

No, what kind of chips are there in Ulan-Ude!
But believe me, the equipment is complex and expensive—lasers, precision mechanics, and expensive software—and the products themselves are fairly simple consumables. They don't even require automotive-grade precision.

Quote: Puncher

I don't care. If they're planning on releasing a "Bukhanka" (a loaf of bread). If they're planning on releasing an Xpeng P7, for example, they won't let a migrant within cannon range of it.

That's undeniable. Although, as the article states, they're not bringing Vesta-Granta analogs to us. And they might start assembling them precisely for mass saturation and market capture. But that's just intellectualizing...

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Although, as it is written in the article, Vesta-Granta analogues are not being brought to us.

Frankly, there's little hope of deploying modern Chinese manufacturing in Russia; it's nothing more than a dream. We're too poor for China, and we're also in competition with those whose markets China is very interested in.
They're targeting India, where the car market is fantastic.

[Artyom Savin]

Xpeng P7, for example, they won't let a migrant within cannon shot.

Do you really think Mercedes-Benzes in Europe are assembled by blond Aryan beasts? The quality of a car probably has the least to do with the nationality of the worker who assembles it.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Artem Savin

Do you really think that Mercedes in Europe are assembled by blond Aryan beasts?

Tajiks?

[Artyom Savin]

Quote: Puncher

Quote: Artem Savin

Do you really think that Mercedes in Europe are assembled by blond Aryan beasts?

Tajiks?

Tajiks have a long way to go. When I was assembling those Mercedes, the morning shift on the A-Class line in the welding shop was called "Afghanistan"—you'll guess why. The GLC was heavily occupied by comrades from Eastern Europe, Poles and Czechs, but there were plenty of former compatriots from Moldova and Ukraine. Local personnel were concentrated in the management, from the shift supervisor upwards. But let's say the electrician's name was Faizal, no idea where he was from, but he had a distinctly southern appearance. The shift supervisor was Muhammad with an A, there were five sections on the line, and the supervisor of the neighboring section was Romanian. So?

[Konnick]

Quote: Artem Savin

Xpeng P7, for example, they won't let a migrant within cannon shot.

Do you really think Mercedes-Benzes in Europe are assembled by blond Aryan beasts? The quality of a car probably has the least to do with the nationality of the worker who assembles it.

It depends. French-Algerian and English-Pakistani-Indian quality differs from German-Turkish quality.

[Artyom Savin]

Quote: Konnick

Quote: Artem Savin

Xpeng P7, for example, they won't let a migrant within cannon shot.

Do you really think Mercedes-Benzes in Europe are assembled by blond Aryan beasts? The quality of a car probably has the least to do with the nationality of the worker who assembles it.

It depends. French-Algerian and English-Pakistani-Indian quality differs from German-Turkish quality.

And why? In those blessed days, when the natural French assembled their jalopies with their white hands, no one compared them to the racially correct rickety West German-built cars? No one remarked on the peculiarities of the French school of automobile construction? Really? The dark-skinned ones came and ruined everything, right?

[purple]

That's why the quality of European cars has dropped so much... It's better to buy a Chinese car now. It's no wonder the BMW plant in Kaliningrad was considered the best in terms of quality.

[Artyom Savin]

This is precisely why the quality of European cars has dropped sharply...

It fell for various reasons, and the main one is the pursuit of margins and saving on everything, including what is not necessary.

It's no wonder the BMW plant in Kaliningrad was considered the best in terms of quality.

That's exactly it. Take a worker from this Kaliningrad plant, or rather, the entire team, and send them all to AvtoVAZ. You'd be surprised at the complete lack of improvement.

It's better to buy a Chinese one now

As if there was a choice. China, of course.

[Lykases1]

Robotization is good. "Black factories" are even better. But the question arises: who's paying for the party? I'm not against manufacturing developing. We can't just move to manufacturing. But robotization requires mass production. For investment in a robot to pay off, it needs to produce, say, a million identical parts. And then, someone has to use those parts somewhere. So, this is clearly not a small or medium-sized business, especially one with international expansion. There might not be enough of a market in Russia. So the question is: what kind of products are needed where? Where are they waiting for us? What niches are open? We need to think and calculate. We need to engage in protectionism for our businesses. We don't want to do either of those things here.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Lykases1

But robotics requires mass production. For investment in a robot to pay for itself, it must produce, say, a million identical parts.

Not at all, and for a long time now. It's not a rotary line, like with cartridges; everything can be reprogrammed quite easily. Well, I'm saying it's simple. , although this is beyond my understanding.

[Lykases1]

I'm no expert on this matter either. I cited the plant director's opinion, which convinced me. He believes reprogramming the machine every two hours is unsustainable. And the market needs to be there to make it worthwhile. But thanks for your opinion.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Lykases1

He believes that reprogramming the machine every 2 hours is not a good idea.

Well, I don’t know, if you think that in two hours you can create at least a thousand cars, then of course, but I think that once every couple of months, for the sake of two or three tens of thousands, it’s not particularly stressful to change the program.

[Lykases1]

I spent two hours just writing. Well, imagine a machine makes the left fender for a car. He made 20. He could make more, but no need. Okay, we reconfigured it, and he started making the rear fender. He made 30 – no need anymore. But the gearbox, he just can't do it. What next? He needs orders, but there aren't any. Why the hell did I buy this machine? The company is dead.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Lykases1

Well, imagine a machine making a left fender for a car. Made 20.

Hmmm. A series of 20 cars...

Quote: Lykases1

But he just can't do the gearbox.

And all this on one machine???? By the way, the gearboxes, with engines, are driven in millions, hundreds of thousands for sure, not even because of the machines, but to recoup the cost of the design.

Quote: Lykases1

I just wrote for two hours.

Yes, it’s already clear that it’s simple.

[Lykases1]

Millions of checkpoints? True. But I'm afraid this isn't Russia. That's why we buy them. Or we make old ones "by hand." Because you could create a completely robotic enterprise with enormous efficiency, but it wouldn't work. We don't need millions of checkpoints every year. We have nowhere to put them.

[Dedok]

Checkpoints by the millions? True. But I'm afraid not Russia.

Look at the production volumes of the Japanese Aisin...
Yes, this is not Russia, but what volumes...
What is the product line?

[Zoer]

Quote: Lykases1

We don't need millions of checkpoints every year. We have nowhere to put them.

Why not? They produce 500 VAZs per year alone. And that's despite the fact that VAZ doesn't have a crossover, a C-class, or a D-class. They also need decent UAZs, Gazelles, and KamAZs with their own engines. A million gearboxes of a single model aren't necessary, but 100 are quite necessary and will find buyers even within the country, not to mention the Eurasian Economic Union. With such protectionism and direct cash injections, anything under the sun could have been achieved long ago. Iran is a good example. Their auto industry is better than ours, but their population and market are SMALLER. Yes, they bought licenses and factories from the French, but who stopped us from doing the same before 2022?

[Dedok]

Well, imagine a machine is making the left fender for a car. He made 20. More could be done, but no need. Okay, we reconfigured it, and he started making the rear fender. He made 30 – no need for more.

This isn't a machine, it's a press with a force of about 1000 tons, and the wing isn't made in one pass, there are several operations to ensure the thickness of the metal is uniform...
Although your point is clear, by the way, "reprogramming" in the production of such a complex product as a car is evil...
Why? - Have you encountered problems with supplying spare parts for such a "reprogrammable" product? - When you do, you'll understand that this is - to put it mildly - wrong...

[Lykases1]

It's nice to read an expert's opinion. So I'm trying, perhaps tongue-tied, to convey that robotics, as a concept in itself, won't achieve much. What's needed is government action—protectionism, prohibitive tariffs, and restrictions on monopolies. China, for example, is a good example. And we need to think about where we're competitive, or can become so. How to carve out a piece of the global economy for ourselves. And that's where the trouble lies. The richest, most high-tech countries are closed to us.

[Dedok]

How to carve out a piece of the global economy for ourselves. And here's the problem. The richest and most high-tech countries are closed to us.

I've written repeatedly about how, back in the late 90s, China was sending its students to technical universities in Europe—these weren't "someone's parents' children," they were possibly the best in China itself...
Not only did they learn by absorbing all the experience the university provided them, but they also utilized the expertise of industrial giants during their studies: all of these "giants" provided the university with modern equipment and software for this equipment...
Later, many "Germans" said that the Chinese not only learned from them, but were also able to "take away" many technologies from them.
Perhaps today these Chinese are in charge of industry in enterprises in China...
It doesn't happen at the snap of a finger, it takes years...

[Lykases1]

There's nothing to argue with. Only, sometimes, the question flashes: where have we been heading all these years?

[3x3zsave]

Where have we been going all these years?
To the aphedron.

[your1970]

Quote: 3x3zsave

Where have we been going all these years?
To the aphedron.

Quote: Lykases1

There's nothing to argue with. Only, sometimes, the question flashes: where have we been heading all these years?

If you recall the Soviet "Are you very smart?" (c) and the contemptuous "Scientist..." - then the last 60 years have apparently been going nowhere.
We couldn't make the obvious thing work on a UAZ—a light-duty diesel engine. It turned out to be too complicated...

[Good Evil]

Quote: Lykases1

I'm no expert on this matter either. I cited the plant director's opinion, which convinced me. He believes reprogramming the machine every two hours is unsustainable. And the market needs to be there to make it worthwhile. But thanks for your opinion.

Well, if you have to write a CNC program from scratch every two hours, then yes. But if you've already accumulated a library (repository) of programs, then reloading the program on the machine is a matter of minutes. True, the machine also needs to be reconfigured (tools, fixtures, etc.), but that's necessary even without a CNC. And in reality, they don't do this "every two hours"; it's usually at least once every few days.

[Good Evil]

About the article.
IMHO, the author writes a lot here about economics, production organization, marketing, etc. In my humble opinion, if VAZ produced QUALITY cars, demand for them would be high. And even without any special bells and whistles for comfort (like, if you didn't live well, then why get used to them!). ). But spare parts are cheaper, and you can repair it in the garage... For our user, who isn't spoiled by comfort, a fairly simple yet RELIABLE car is just right! But if you have a ton of cash, here you go, Mercedes.

[your1970]

Quote: Good evil

If VAZ produced high-quality cars, the demand for them would be high.

VAZ didn't initially produce quality cars—some were repairable, yes, but nothing more.

[Zoer]

Quote: Lykases1

I quoted the plant director's opinion, which convinced me. He believes reprogramming the machine every two hours is unsustainable. And the market needs to be there to make it worthwhile. But thanks for your opinion.

This doesn't happen in mass production. Only in R&D, when creating a prototype. Even a 10000-unit run requires at least 10 days of machine work. But we need a production run of 100 cars of a given model. If we factor in standardization, a production run of up to 0,5 million parts easily evaporates. I'm talking about simple parts like bolts and nuts (although they're made by automatic machines, not CNC). What's there to talk about? We produce 50 million bearings a year (the USSR produced 870 million at its peak), and that's barely enough to meet AvtoVAZ's needs. And what about the other "crafts"? What are we going to make them from? And you're talking about reconfiguring the machine.

[Sotskiy]

Quote: Lykases1

For a robot to pay for itself, it needs to produce, say, a million identical parts. And then, someone has to use those parts somewhere.

On a national scale, this is the responsibility of the relevant ministries; it's called planning—that same swear word that those who advocate the idea that the market will solve everything use to scare people.
But why bother with this labor-intensive process when, having sold off state property, you can simply cut coupons from private owners, collecting taxes on everything and everyone, filling the budget, without having to worry about social security, organizing production, logistics, and other expenses?

[NordOst16]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

And here a migrant, whose social security is tied to Russia, will be more profitable for a businessman who DOESN'T CARE about Russia.

If Russians were filling these positions, there would be no need to invite migrants. Bringing in foreign workers is a common practice, and Russia can't do without them.

[Stas157]

Quote: NordOst16

If Russians were going to these places

In the market (including the labor market), everything is determined by price. Haven't you heard? Raise the wages and they'll come. They'll even line up! But no. It's cheaper for our bourgeois to bring in foreign migrants.

[NordOst16]

Quote: Stas157

Raise the salary and they will go.

Will all citizens be able to afford the increased cost of goods?

Quote: Stas157

It turns out to be cheaper for our bourgeois to bring in foreign migrants.

It's cheaper for everyone.

[Stas157]

Quote: NordOst16

Will all citizens be able to afford the increased cost of goods?

Stop with the demagoguery here. No one will refuse higher wages, even if it means some price increases.

You're so smart, but tell me, how does Israel still survive with such high salaries? A janitor there earns more than our engineer! How do they even survive? Go to Israel and teach the Jews how to live. It's not right to pay people so much for their work!

[NordOst16]

Quote: Stas157

Stop with the demagoguery here. No one will refuse higher wages, even if it means some price increases.

Well, I advise you to stop daydreaming and listening to all those disgruntled people from the so-called Russian community and the like. The price increase won't be "somewhat," but rather about the same as a foreign car after the recycling fee at the border.

Quote: Stas157

You're so smart, tell me, how does Israel still live with such high salaries?

Besides very sound governance (at least in the past), they have a rich sugar daddy, whom they hold tightly by the balls and who pays for many of their desires. But even despite this, these guys aren't above accepting migrants from abroad.

[Stas157]

Quote: NordOst16

The price increase will not be "somewhat," but approximately the same as a foreign car after the recycling fee at the border.

Meli, Yemelya, it's your week! To hear you tell it, the poorest, homeless countries with the lowest wages live the best! Because their labor is very cheap, and as a result, prices for services and some retail goods are low.

[NordOst16]

Quote: Stas157

Meli Emelya - your week!

When a person hasn't succeeded in life, they start looking for someone to blame for their troubles: their parents, the government, immigrants, etc. But usually the problem is much closer—the person themselves. I wish you a good income and don't waste your nerves, time, and energy on crooks; it's better to devote time to your family.

Quote: Stas157

If you listen to me, the poorest, homeless countries with the lowest wages live the best! Because their labor is very cheap, and as a result, prices for services and some retail goods are low.

There are no immigrants in the DPRK; everything is domestic, but something still feels off. This doesn't make the citizens any richer.

[Stas157]

Quote: NordOst16

I wish you good earnings

You were just against raising wages for Russians! How am I to understand you, good man?

Quote: NordOst16

When a person fails in life, he begins to look for those to blame for his troubles.

Are you hinting at me? I didn't even complain about my own troubles! Do you really want me to be in trouble? Why are you getting so personal, you "wealthy" one?

In principle, I'm sure all our very wealthy leaders think about their people in a similar way. That's why we live like that.

[NordOst16]

Quote: Stas157

You were just against raising wages for Russians! How am I to understand you, good man?

Do you want our citizens to engage in low-skilled labor? While it's certainly important for society, it offers little added value. Perhaps, instead of forcing the country's already small population into such low-skilled jobs, why not give them the opportunity (and it exists, but not everyone wants it) to work in industries that create high added value, such as pharmaceuticals, microelectronics, aviation, and so on?

Quote: Stas157

Are you hinting at me? I didn't even complain about my own troubles! Do you really want me to be in trouble? Why are you making such personal attacks, you "wealthy" one?

You're free to interpret my words as you please. But these lines seem especially amusing given your earlier messages.

Quote: Stas157

In principle, I'm sure all our very wealthy leaders think about their people in a similar way. That's why we live like that.

Everyone reasons based on their own ideals and desire to benefit themselves and their loved ones based on objective possibilities. But for some reason, many believe that their well-being is the responsibility and duty of others. It seems to me that the "That's why we live this way" mentality primarily stems from unrealistic expectations coupled with a complete unwillingness to sweat the sweat of increasing the likelihood of realizing one's ambitions. Furthermore, I would also note a minimal desire to defend one's interests through available means at the state level.
But this is what we inherited from our great, but imperfect ancestors, and what we must decide.

[cinnamon]

Salary levels are determined by productivity, not conscience, desire, and so on. Productivity depends on the employee, the employer, the state, and many other factors; this is a whole other topic, worthy of articles. The argument that "the bourgeoisie underpays" is far from reality. There's competition among the "bourgeoisie"; if one employer pays too little, the employee will always go to the one who pays more. They can't agree to pay less; there are too many of them.

[your1970]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: NordOst16

If Russians were going to these places

In the market (including the labor market), everything is determined by price. Haven't you heard? Raise the wages and they'll come. They'll even line up! But no. It's cheaper for our bourgeois to bring in foreign migrants.

Last year, no migrants came to the concrete road at all. The owners started looking for locals, and people went for 90 instead of the migrants' 50. As a result, a 5*50 curb from 108 became 190.
And the demand for it in stores has decreased.

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

Last year, no migrants came to the concrete road at all. The owners started looking for locals, and people went for 90 instead of the migrants' 50. As a result, a 5*50 curb from 108 became 190.
And the demand for it in stores has decreased.

Then the locals earned some money and decided to build a house or a driveway. They went and bought expensive curbs. The money stayed in the country and keeps the wheels of OUR economy turning. And your migrants will buy BYAKS (they'll send the money to a NATO country) and send it back home, where they'll buy local goods or services. And that's a whole RIVER worth trillions of rubles. That's how we live.

[your1970]

Quote: Zoer

Then the locals started making money and decided to build a house and a driveway. They went and bought more expensive curbs. The money stayed in the country and keeps the wheels of OUR economy turning.

In this particular case, stores simply stopped carrying them. No one would buy them...
There is an opinion that they brought it in during the winter - it is not local, but imported from St. Petersburg - they brought in several train cars The same money.
If this is true, our producers will close in the spring because the workers will want more, and imported curbs will be at last year's price.
In any case, "river of trillions" either it will dry up completely here or it will simply go to St. Petersburg.
That is, no matter how you look at it, the people in the provinces won't have any money...

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

That is, no matter how you look at it, the people in the provinces won't have any money...

All covered with greenery, absolutely all
There is an island of bad luck in the ocean.
There is an island of bad luck in the ocean,
All covered with greenery, absolutely all.
Unhappy savage people live there,
The face is terrible, kind inside.
The face is terrible, kind inside,
Unhappy savage people live there.
Whatever they do, things are not going,
Seen on Monday, their mother gave birth.
Seen on Monday, their mother gave birth,
Whatever they do, things are not going!
Crocodile is not caught, coconut does not grow;
Cry, pray to God, not sparing tears.
Cry, pray to God, not sparing tears.
Crocodile is not caught, coconut does not grow!
It seems not to be idlers, and could live.
They would take and cancel Mondays!
They would take and cancel Mondays!
It seems not to be idlers, and could live.
As luck would have it, there is no calendar on the island,
Children and adults are wasted!
Children and adults are wasted!
There is no calendar on the damned island.
On this occasion from night to dawn
Unlucky savage people cry!
And the poor cry, and curse trouble
On a day that is unknown in any year!
And the poor cry, and curse trouble
On a day that is unknown in any year!

What to do...
The State Duma elections are coming soon. I predict 147% for United Russia!

[Stas157]

Quote: your1970

People went for 90 instead of 50 migrants

So that's your isolated case. My personal experience is the complete opposite. I used them a lot for a while. I needed loaders and people for heavy work. And the migrants (Uzbeks) charged more for this work than the locals. And this wasn't a one-off; it was a constant occurrence.
I asked these same Uzbeks: why is it so expensive? They answered: "Because we don't drink and we work seven days a week."

[your1970]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: your1970

People went for 90 instead of 50 migrants

So that's your isolated case. My personal experience is the complete opposite. I used them a lot for a while. I needed loaders and people for heavy work. And the migrants (Uzbeks) charged more for this work than the locals. And this wasn't a one-off; it was a constant occurrence.
I asked these same Uzbeks: why is it so expensive? They answered: "Because we don't drink and we work seven days a week."

In 2010 We were recruiting Gazprom for field work – right there on site, house, 90 a month – crazy money back then, free lunch. They couldn't get it – "If only we had 20x10, but hauling cables into the field every day is hard."
In the end, they transported the shift from Belgorod

[alexoff]

You have to buy a production line; a robot costs money. Someone has already trained a human. It's like you buy a robot, and it uses the money to build new robots in its free time.

[Panin (midshipman)]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Quote: Puncher

China is switching to "dark factories" where there are no people, so if China (unexpectedly!) opens high-tech production in Russia, this will not create any new jobs for Russians.

China would benefit from migrant workers in assembly, but only in Russia! Otherwise, it's just a reason to kick out the "specialists" from the country, since they won't be needed for assembly.
But even the author, not to mention the “decision makers”, is only considering an outdated solution -
The day is not far off when we will have to invite migrant workers from Central Asia, India and Afghanistan to work on the assembly line.
But it should be like China - dark factories, and local jobs where there are now migrant gangs...

We need to import it from North Korea, not Central Asia. In an organized manner. They are very disciplined and not spoiled.

[Umpteenth]

Will they go there? Here's the salary before taxes.

[Mustached Kok]

Will not work
China did this back when their own wages weren't high anyway. Here, however, given the taxes on private businesses, automakers need to be paid the same wages as migrants in order to operate illegally. And who in their right mind, a citizen, would go to work in a factory with a pittance like an illegal immigrant, when in their own city or regional center, they could earn more as a taxi driver or even in a coffee shop (even though their wages aren't high either).
We need to establish production of high-quality vehicles with good reliability and versatility (therefore, we can focus on station wagons, pickups, and modern point-and-shoots). These vehicles should be affordable for both the average citizen and the suburban traveler. They should also be available for private individuals and companies as company vehicles for transporting cargo and people. These vehicles should be used to create both company vehicles and light special-purpose vehicles.
But here's the problem, one of the reasons for the low quality and high price of our cars: we're forced to buy a lot of cheap components abroad. And that's because... WE NO LONGER HAVE peripheral manufacturing. Previously, car parts were manufactured throughout the country, and assembled in Tolyatti (and some were manufactured locally). Now, Tolyatti can still assemble a car from components, but the peripheral factories that make these very components are either closed or no longer able to produce components.
And from this follows a solution. Only management won't like it. After all, it requires investing a lot of money and time in industries where there's no guarantee of success.
We need to revive factories and plants producing primary components and parts. This means supporting either private companies willing to create such production facilities or opening these enterprises ourselves. And if we're to open these new plants, we also need to implement education reforms to improve the quality of skills, from the secondary school level all the way up to higher technical education.
And in order to provide all this with money, we still need to sort out a sea of ​​problems in the economy.
So, the bottom line is, tearing down is easier than building up. The leadership allowed the industry to collapse for over 30 years, and now they're reaping the consequences.
We won't be left without cars, believe me. But either the country's car market will be taken over by underground auto trade (which will shift part of the market to criminal or semi-criminal activity), or the Chinese will come to an agreement to simply monopolize our market with their cars (and the few remaining automakers in our country will be forced to retrain as support and service companies for the Chinese auto industry).

[Zoer]

Quote: Mustachioed Kok

In our country, given the taxes on private owners, to ensure that automakers can operate under the Black Sea Act, they need to pay wages similar to those of migrants. And who in their right mind, a citizen, would go to work in a factory with a pittance like an illegal immigrant, when in their own city or district center they could earn more as a taxi driver or even in a coffee shop (even though their wages aren't high either).

Yes, yes, AvtoVAZ sells its products at FIVE times the cost price (which also includes employees' salaries) and can't increase employees' salaries by 50%?

Quote: Mustachioed Kok

We need to establish production of high-quality vehicles with good reliability and multifunctionality (therefore, we can focus on station wagons, pickups and modern "soapboxes").

Are these migrants, who don't even know Russian, and can't even use a caliper, let alone a ruler, going to make quality cars, and on a salary of three kopecks?

Quote: Mustachioed Kok

We need to revive factories and plants producing primary components and parts. This means supporting either private companies willing to create such production facilities or opening these enterprises ourselves. And if we're to open these new plants, we also need to implement education reforms to improve the quality of skills, from the secondary school level all the way up to higher technical education.

To support private sector interests in industry and mechanical engineering, we need to reorient the economy from a raw materials-based economy to an industrial one. We need to eliminate industrial taxes, provide cheap loans, cheap energy, gas, and fuel. We need to subsidize them initially. But to do this, we need to relegate all the raw materials oligarchs to second to tenth place. But I'm afraid they'll be very opposed.
As for education, you can improve quality, control, and so on as much as you like, but until there are attractive salaries in this field, no one will study and work there. Who would go to a vocational school to become a fitter or electronics installer if the starting salary is 40 rubles? Sorry, no one is stupid. A young guy would be better off as a scooter courier for 100 rubles or more, without any vocational school experience. Or smoking bamboo in the Ministry of Emergency Situations.

[grandson of Perun]

The price of the cheapest industrial robot is 10+ million rubles.
To make production fully automated, hundreds of robots are needed.
For the multi-billion dollar investment to pay for itself (even with inflation lower than ours), sales of cars from this production must be several million per year.
What if there is more than one manufacturer?
Will the Russian market be able to handle such volumes?

[man]

China is switching to "dark factories" where there are no people, so if China (unexpectedly!) opens high-tech production in Russia, this will not create any new jobs for Russians.
But he will pay taxes in the Russian Federation.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: mann

But he will pay taxes in the Russian Federation.

CNPC owns 20% of Yamal LNG and pays no taxes on gas production or sales. This is not without precedent.

[man]

Quote: Puncher

Quote: mann

But he will pay taxes in the Russian Federation.

CNPC owns 20% of Yamal LNG and pays no taxes on gas production or sales. This is not without precedent.

The Chinese have settled well in Russia... better than the natives...

[Hole puncher]

Quote: mann

The Chinese have settled well in Russia... better than the natives...

Total also doesn't pay taxes; they also have a stake in Yamal LNG. Incidentally, no one pays taxes on this field. The state receives virtually nothing from LNG sales from this field.

[man]

The state receives virtually nothing from the sale of LNG from this field.
Then why???

[Hole puncher]

Quote: mann

Then why???

What a strange question. And what do you think of Mr. Mikhelson (not the one named Konrad Karlovich)'s food plans? Kefir and pasta are only a few kopecks...

[Cool90]

For the future: the problem with the opposition in Russia is that they constantly lie, and therefore people don't believe them, and only the weak-minded do.

[man]

Quote: Puncher

Quote: mann

Then why???

What a strange question. And what do you think of Mr. Mikhelson (not the one named Konrad Karlovich)'s food plans? Kefir and pasta are only a few kopecks...

Is this NOVATEK or something... Really, what am I saying... I can't help but help the poor guy, he's only in 4th place among our crocodiles... Let him at least climb to the third prize place

[Cool90]

This commentator is simply lying, it's not clear why (it's clear anyway)
The Yamal LNG project, in which CNPC owns 20%, is exempt from CERTAIN taxes

[man]

Quote: Kull90

This commentator is simply lying, it's not clear why (it's clear anyway)
The Yamal LNG project, in which CNPC owns 20%, is exempt from CERTAIN taxes

Don't even mention it... I think those poor souls are on the simplified tax system, they were probably already caught under the 5% VAT... and now they're making fun of their misfortune at VO...

[Cool90]

In 2024, the profit tax on enterprises engaged in the production and export of LNG brought the Yamal treasury revenue in the amount of 50 billion 935 million rubles.

[man]

Quote: Kull90

In 2024, the profit tax on enterprises engaged in the production and export of LNG brought the Yamal treasury revenue in the amount of 50 billion 935 million rubles.

Only... Are you suggesting we chip in to support Yamal?

[Cool90]

I'm not suggesting anything

The commenter above tried to deceive the citizens on this site, but I prevented the deception with facts
Why did he try to deceive this question?

[Dedok]

The Chinese have settled well in Russia... better than the natives...

and not only the Chinese..

[Cool90]

The Yamal LNG project, in which CNPC owns 20%, is exempt from some taxes that other oil and gas companies pay. I don't understand why they're lying; you can always check.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Kull90

exempt from some taxes

Do they pay mineral extraction tax?

[Cool90]

As of January 1, 2028, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law that resets the mineral extraction tax rate to zero for the production of natural gas and gas condensate from the Achimov and Jurassic productive deposits on the Yamal Peninsula.
currently paying
and some taxes does not mean that he does not pay taxes at all

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Kull90

currently paying

Indeed, they started paying.

Quote: Kull90

This doesn't mean that he doesn't pay taxes at all.

NOVATEK pays, although it pays the least.

[Cool90]

They have always paid the mineral extraction tax, but from January 1, 2028, they will not pay it for 10 years, and taxes are paid from the entire YAMAL project and by all participants, not just NOVATEK (and it is not the least, but the most, at least 50,1 pct.%)
I don't understand why you're lying.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Kull90

always paid mineral extraction tax,

They didn't pay mineral extraction tax or income tax on tankers, I don't know now.

[Cool90]

You don't know, but you still make statements
The South Tambeyskoye field, which serves as the resource base for Yamal LNG, has been granted a property tax exemption and a profit tax benefit, which will be 13,5% instead of 18%.
We paid income tax, but it was 13,5%.

I don't understand why you're trying to deceive me.

[Nastia makarova]

the car loan is not very good and the interest rate is high

[Maxim from Irkutsk]

I have a Korean car, it's been around for 15 years now, and I'd trade it in for a new one. The Vesta isn't bad, but it's astronomically priced. It's not worth the money, and I don't want to take out a car mortgage! So I'll be looking at used cars from China!

[turembo]

No matter what we do, the final picture we get is not good.

Where does the budget get its money? That's right, from the recycling tax. Russians, willing to buy powerful luxury foreign cars at outrageous prices, donate part of their income to support the auto industry for citizens with modest needs.

I burst out laughing at the whole office; no one supports ordinary citizens anywhere, especially those with modest needs. Before all this chaos, I was trading in my 25-year-old Japanese car for an 11-year-old one. I bought it at auction in Japan, and there was a fierce fight over it, even though it was a compact car, but it was well-equipped and in good condition. In the end, the car cost me 200 rubles, another 200 rubles for shipping to Russia, and I gave another 700 rubles to the state, just for fun. It replenished the coffers and supported the auto industry; 700 rubles is almost my entire annual income now, to give you an idea. But when I picked up my little car, the entire lot was filled with luxury and premium cars; even the manager was surprised I was buying a compact car. In fact, by that point, I could no longer afford a domestic car; a heavily used Japanese car (11 years old, after all) was still cheaper, even with the rip-off price. Moreover, I am too poor to simply maintain a domestic car...

[Victor Alien]

The recycling fee shouldn't be used to recycle cars—it's simply an additional tax on the budget. If they wanted foreigners to manufacture cars, we should simply ban the import of imported vehicles. And besides, we don't have that much variety in models by class. In terms of production capacity and variety of trucks, tractors, combines, and excavators, our factories cover all segments. We cover almost all of the bus segments. If we produce more tires than necessary (one Nokia plant shipped 80% of its tires abroad), then why the hell do we need tires from abroad?! Batteries and auto glass—likely, we have our own, and they're just as good as imported ones. The problem with our auto industry is the lack of diversity. There are no frameless passenger minivans, no Volga-class cars, no cars with six- or eight-cylinder engines, and diesel engines are only found in Gazelles. Why is it profitable for Hawala to produce 30.000 cars a year per model, while our factories can't even make a single roof stamping for models that have been in production for 20-40 years?! Why the hell does our state-funded auto plant need its own bank?! Maybe if we cut banking costs by a factor of 8-10, the money would actually work instead of fleecing the public?! What if we set metal prices domestically based on our own mining and production costs?! Maybe then the price of metal would drop by a factor of 4?! But now you sell everything for foreign currency, then take out loans from there, haul the goods back in foreign currency, and calculate customs duties in foreign currency—how are you ever going to have a stable economy?! It's tuned to so many strings it's mind-boggling trying to figure out why your goods are getting more expensive while your own production is dying. Taxes should be set high enough to eliminate the need for benefits and subsidies. It's idiotic to give oil workers extra pay, bankers some help, and automakers some assistance. If a business is unprofitable, you either close it or change the taxes. But don't whine and ask for help for an existing business.

[Panin (midshipman)]

Quote: Victor Alien

The recycling fee shouldn't be used to recycle cars—it's simply an additional tax on the budget. If they wanted foreigners to manufacture cars, they should simply ban the import of imported vehicles. And besides, we don't have that much variety in models by class. And in terms of production capacity and variety of trucks, tractors, combines, and excavators, our factories cover all segments completely. We cover almost everything with buses. If we produce more tires than necessary (one Nokia plant shipped 80% of its tires abroad), then why the hell do we need tires from abroad?! Batteries and auto glass—likewise, we have our own, and they're just as good as imported ones. The problem with our auto industry is the lack of diversity. There are no cars like frameless passenger minivans, no Volga-class cars, no cars with six- or eight-cylinder engines, and diesel engines are only found in Gazelles. Why is it profitable for Hawala to produce 30.000 of one model a year, but not for our factories.

Haval has other markets. And anyway, the Russian market isn't a priority for the Chinese, so no one will build anything. It's easier for them to leave. While the population was solvent, they sold things at outrageous markups; every parking lot in Kaluga was filled with Geelys. They also sold complete car kits, and then the grass wouldn't grow. For example, Muscovite first jacked up the prices, and only after they dropped would people start buying the cars. So the government is playing with fire—if there's no demand, the Chinese will leave, and there won't be anything to drive at all, only Zhigulis.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Panin (Michman)

Hawal has other markets. And anyway, the Russian market isn't a priority for the Chinese, so no one will build anything.

Haval ALREADY built a factory in 2019, but sales there until 2022 were a pittance. It seemed they were fools, even though they built it. Nobody bought anything for three years—who needs them? However, they suddenly got lucky and sales took off in 2022.

The Haval plant in Russia (Haval Motor Manufacturing Rus LLC) was officially opened on June 5, 2019, in the Uzlovaya Industrial Park in the Tula Region. This is Great Wall Motor's first full-cycle manufacturing facility abroad, including stamping, welding, painting, and assembly shops, as well as engine production.

[Panin (midshipman)]

Quote: 2 level advisor

Quote: Panin (Michman)

Hawal has other markets. And anyway, the Russian market isn't a priority for the Chinese, so no one will build anything.

Haval ALREADY built a factory in 2019, but sales there until 2022 were a pittance. It seemed they were fools, even though they built it. Nobody bought anything for three years—who needs them? However, they suddenly got lucky and sales took off in 2022.

The Haval plant in Russia (Haval Motor Manufacturing Rus LLC) was officially opened on June 5, 2019, in the Uzlovaya Industrial Park in the Tula Region. This is Great Wall Motor's first full-cycle manufacturing facility abroad, including stamping, welding, painting, and assembly shops, as well as engine production.

Because apparently, before 22, the Haval was more expensive than Renault, Volkswagen, and Korean cars, or they were more practical to operate. And when there was no other choice, it took off. Nevertheless, the degree of localization there is lower than on VAZ.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Panin (Michman)

Because apparently, before 22, the Haval was more expensive than Renault, Volkswagen, and Korean cars, or they were more practical to operate. And when there was no other choice, it took off. Nevertheless, the degree of localization there is lower than on VAZ.

Well, don't think the Chinese are idiots. They calculated the market first before entering it. It looks more like they have a "seer" working for them who announced 2022 in advance.

[Panin (midshipman)]

Quote: 2 level advisor

Quote: Panin (Michman)

Because apparently, before 22, the Haval was more expensive than Renault, Volkswagen, and Korean cars, or they were more practical to operate. And when there was no other choice, it took off. Nevertheless, the degree of localization there is lower than on VAZ.

Well, don't think the Chinese are idiots. They calculated the market first before entering it. It looks more like they have a "seer" working for them who announced 2022 in advance.

They may have been calculating something, but many brands have already left the market or are preparing to do so. The Moskvich 3, for example, could be a thing of the past. To break even, production would need to sell at least 40 cars a year.

[Evgeny_4]

However, sales continued.
Well, objectively, the same Haval F7 was raw in terms of software.
The Chinese rethought this, and in 23, they worked on the bugs, removed the lags in the software, and created a restyling that went on sale.

[man]

So the government is playing with fire—there will be no demand, the Chinese will leave, and there will be nothing to drive at all, only Zhigulis.
You are as naive as a child, and that is exactly what our government is trying to achieve.
For us it's like a reverse Robin Hood, robbing the poor to give to the rich.

[Volga-1980]

You're right, domestic manufacturers offer absolutely no variety of body styles, engines, and transmissions. For example, let's say I need to buy a light-duty cargo van. You'll tell me there's a Largus, but it doesn't suit me in terms of both height and cargo area width. The only options available are from PSA. Used Largus vans in good condition are affordable, with a diesel engine and comfort. I'd give the money to a domestic manufacturer, but they don't have the product I need.

[Walrus]

— Russians transferred more than 350 billion rubles to fraudsters in 2020.
- Wow, is it really that many?
— Yes. Taxes, utilities, major repairs, recycling fees.

[gromila78]

Am I the only one who thinks the author is mocking us when he discusses the usefulness of protective tariffs? Protective tariffs serve to protect the domestic market, but they always lead to higher domestic prices for the population, as they deprive the population of the opportunity to buy goods at lower prices. The population pays all these tariffs out of their own pockets; what's happening is a redistribution of funds from the pockets of consumers to the pockets of the producers who receive the funding.

A recent article discussed how questions arise not about the recycling fee itself, but about the effectiveness of the measures taken. Despite multi-billion dollar subsidies, the end result is a dismal VAZ that makes no effort to reach global standards and simply exploits its privileged position, threatening job losses in the event of bankruptcy.

But full localization is not profitable for foreign producers - the market is too small and the costs for a full production cycle are too high, not to mention the much higher overhead costs due to climatic conditions.

[a.shlidt]

VAZ, which is not striving to reach the world level

- Yes, you can. But why?

[mad-max78]

The article doesn't explain the essence of the term "recycling fee." I've worked in the metallurgy industry for over 20 years, and I'll let everyone in on a secret: if you recycle your old car, no one will pay you or the plant you're recycling it to. There is a recycling fee, and it's huge, but each plant recycles the car independently, at a loss. A car is made up of various materials: the body and chassis are typically steel, but there are also aluminum parts, such as the engine, gearbox, and control arms. These won't be recycled; they must be separated and sent to recycling centers. Windshields, side windows, interior trim, seats, and plastics also shouldn't be recycled. Every car recycling plant must have a shredder, a huge machine that shreds cars and, using magnetism, separates the steel from the non-magnetic body materials. So, practically no Russian plant has such facilities. A single shredder costs tens of millions of dollars, and as far as I know, they are not manufactured in Russia. Now let's summarize: no one pays or subsidizes car recycling to metallurgical plants, shredders are not manufactured in Russia, and yet the recycling fee exists, and this money is spent on everything but car recycling.

[Panin (midshipman)]

Quote from: mad-max78

The article doesn't explain the essence of the term "recycling fee." I've worked in the metallurgy industry for over 20 years, and I'll let everyone in on a secret: if you recycle your old car, no one will pay you or the plant you're recycling it to. There is a recycling fee, and it's huge, but each plant recycles the car independently, at a loss. A car is made up of various materials: the body and chassis are typically steel, but there are also aluminum parts, such as the engine, gearbox, and control arms. These won't be recycled; they must be separated and sent to recycling centers. Windshields, side windows, interior trim, seats, and plastics also shouldn't be recycled. Every car recycling plant must have a shredder, a huge machine that shreds cars and, using magnetism, separates the steel from the non-magnetic body materials. So, practically no Russian plant has such facilities. A single shredder costs tens of millions of dollars, and as far as I know, they are not manufactured in Russia. Now let's summarize: no one pays or subsidizes car recycling to metallurgical plants, shredders are not manufactured in Russia, and yet the recycling fee exists, and this money is spent on everything but car recycling.

Enterprising people buy junk cars for 50-100 thousand, dismantle them, and sell them for scrap metal, making a profit. No recycling fees.

[alexoff]

Each plant disposes of the car independently and at a loss

Residents of sunny Azerbaijan are swarming around our village, asking if we have any unwanted metal. We've given them so much junk—an old washing machine, a stove, a bathtub, rusty pipes—they won't turn anything down, stuffing everything into their Gazelle van, even some bent nails from the ashes that were left over from the boards. I think they're not working so hard at a loss.

[Chack wessel]

I wonder how the USSR got by without shredders? And how do they get by without recycling collection in, say, China? Do they dump old cars in the ocean there?

[a.shlidt]

What we have on paper: Russia is trying to protect its auto industry.
What's the reality? By purchasing a Chinese Julian, which costs 800 rubles in China, the consumer pays another million to the state. For what? For the mere opportunity to buy a car? For the fact that we have AvtoVAZ? Why should the buyer also have to support AvtoVAZ employees? This has escalated into robbery. The situation with commercial vehicles is even worse.

[Boris55]

Bolshevism is the essence of Russian civilization.

Quote: E. Fedorov

Russia's recycling fee is limping along.

Causes which led to this state of affairs in Russia and not only in the automotive industry.

1. The Unified State Exam. A decline in education standards will undoubtedly impact management and production. Ultimately, our entire infrastructure will collapse, and we risk ending up in a concrete jungle of cities without electricity, gas, and other amenities.

2. Raising the retirement age (thanks for this to K. Logar - the IMF and "our" brainless leaders starting with the letter M), which hinders the introduction of advanced technologies - there is nowhere to put the old staff, and they can only work in the old way - not everyone can retrain at 50-60 years old, and teaching the elderly will only spoil them.

Moreover, the jobs occupied by the elderly are unemployed youth, the main potential of all revolutions...

Final WorldAll the troubles in the country are the work of human hands.

What to do - we need to change "hands".

Under the Bolshevik I.V. Stalin there was no such disgrace.

ps
Comparing production with China, where loans for producers are 0%, and us, where loans for producers are 20%, is extremely incorrect!

[Panin (midshipman)]

Quote: Boris55

Bolshevism is the essence of Russian civilization.

Quote: E. Fedorov

Russia's recycling fee is limping along.

Causes which led to this state of affairs in Russia and not only in the automotive industry.

1. The Unified State Exam. A decline in education standards will undoubtedly impact management and production. Ultimately, our entire infrastructure will collapse, and we risk ending up in a concrete jungle of cities without electricity, gas, and other amenities.

2. Raising the retirement age (thanks for this to K. Logar - the IMF and "our" brainless leaders starting with the letter M), which hinders the introduction of advanced technologies - there is nowhere to put the old staff, and they can only work in the old way - not everyone can retrain at 50-60 years old, and teaching the elderly will only spoil them.

Moreover, the jobs occupied by the elderly are unemployed youth, the main potential of all revolutions...

Final WorldAll the troubles in the country are the work of human hands.

What to do - we need to change "hands".

Under the Bolshevik I.V. Stalin there was no such disgrace.

ps
Comparing production with China, where loans for producers are 0%, and us, where loans for producers are 20%, is extremely incorrect!

You've forgotten that young people aren't eager to get jobs. In our workshop, for example, the average age is 40.
Young people would rather work remotely or in delivery.

[Boris55]

The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

Quote: Panin (Michman)

Young people would rather work remotely or in delivery.

Who, in your opinion, created such conditions that young people are unwilling to work in manufacturing? As Bulgakov said, in the words of Professor Preobrazhensky in "Heart of a Dog": "Devastation begins in the mind."

The simplest solution is to reinstate the article on parasitism from the USSR Criminal Code to the Russian Criminal Code and abolish remote learning. Incidentally, in England in the 16th century, unemployed people (vagrants) were rounded up and hanged.

[interest]

Maybe we should just start paying properly? Or ban remote work and the like—how do you even imagine that? Let's ban royalties for reproduction then—pay only for live performances? (By the way, that's a good option, and at the same time, cut the terms to three years. Otherwise, they'll come up with one song, roughly speaking, and then milk it for the rest of their lives, and then their descendants, too, let them come up with something new!)

[nepunamemuk]

The average age of 40 is very good.
This means there are equal amounts of 20 and 60
and 65 and 70 are already not enough 😇
otherwise the average age would be higher

[Panin (midshipman)]

Quote from: nepunamemuk

The average age of 40 is very good.
This means there are equal amounts of 20 and 60
and 65 and 70 are already not enough 😇
otherwise the average age would be higher

Possibly even higher.
Lower limit 25 years, 3 people.
From 30 to 40. 10 people
From 40 to 50. 20 people
From 50.20 people

[alexoff]

What does the Unified State Exam have to do with this? They're run by former Komsomol members who took the Unified State Exam—mostly at the front.

[TOR2]

2. Raising the retirement age (thanks for this to K. Logar - the IMF and "our" brainless leaders starting with the letter M), which hinders the introduction of advanced technologies - there is nowhere to put the old staff, and they can only work in the old way - not everyone can retrain at 50-60 years old, and teaching the elderly will only spoil them.

Do you see many men aged 50 or 60 on the street? Officially, 42% don't live to see retirement. And if you look more closely, it becomes clear that this percentage is greatly exaggerated.

[Dedok]

Recycling fee is some kind of relic of the times, when Russia really wanted to join the World Trade Organization organization and thus masked the protectionism of the sovereign auto industry.

Пleft the assembly plant, for example, Toyota in Shushary, and Dozens of smaller factories have sprung up across the country.

Some make windshields, others weld tires, and still others roll out rolled steel.

Зand each element and a knot, domestically produceds, company-manufacturer receives points and with them subsidies, allowing us to maintain competitive prices. Where does the budget get the money? That's right, from the recycling fee.

More coming soon foreign cars will be banned in the full sense of the word work as a taxi driver.

And at the same time, Russians do not forget, How to build modern cars.

Who showed it? eastern brothers A real SUV? That's right, Ulyanovsk residents. with his UAZ-469.

Later The Chinese have introduced very strict rules on the import of foreign cars, at the same timeforcing companies to share patents and technologiesand. Now already Europeans are forced to introduce tariffs on the import of Chinese equipment

в Russia has not yet localized the Chinese equivalents of Granta, Vesta, and Largus.. However, Maybe they haven't made this kind of thing in China for a long time now.but.

Last year, new car sales fell by 18,4%, and the average the price has increasedand to record-breaking 3,54 million rubles. Logically, everything should be the other way around. The recycling fee increases the attractiveness of domestic assembly

In the absence of price competition Lada prices soared to 2 million and more.

I pulled out some quotes from the article...
1. The recycling fee from the WTO era is a normal procedure that made it possible to develop recycling... (Remember, just recently, someone promised to build waste-processing plants—that was precisely what was meant to be done with this money...)
2. Well, the second phrase is from the lexicon of an "effective manager": "snap your fingers" - and everything will be...
3. I really liked it... the author hasn't recovered from point 2 yet and continues to dream... (Not only does it need to be a supplier's production facility, but it also needs to be certified... and that means it can't be made "on the fly"...)
4. Again the manager's dreams: I'll collect money from everyone and give subsidies to those who don't want to work, but shout a lot...
5. I'm curious about taxis in general: has anyone crash-tested the cars they plan to recommend/certify for taxi use? Just look at the taxis in Arab countries—they're all different kinds, i.e., the ones the owner could afford...
And for that same Englishwoman, taxi cars are made specifically for taxi work, and not just taken from a list of passenger cars...
6. With the money from the recycling fee, we must not forget how to BUILD cars...
They are not built, they are designed and produced.
7. And since when did the Chinese start producing SUVs for their army? - The author apparently got something mixed up... but our 469 only started rolling off the assembly line in 1972, and by the time of the events on Damansky Island, the Chinese were already driving SUVs... or was that right?
8. "Chinese equivalents of the Granta, Vesta, and Largus haven't been localized in Russia yet. However, perhaps they haven't been produced in China for a long time." - Look at similar cars in China... at their trim levels and prices, and then consider the "recycling fee" conditions - I'm saddened by this comparison...
9. "And the average price rose to a record 3,54 million rubles. Logically, everything should be the other way around."
I immediately remember - "either the skis aren't moving, or I...", or as Chernomyrdin said - "it never happened before and here it is again!"
10. "Lada prices have skyrocketed to 2 million and more" – so 2 million or more? – otherwise, the numbers are like Rosstat's...
But when you look at the price tags, you can't tell if it's real estate or just a car...
what is the article about?
Yes, people said that customs has started imposing new requirements on already cleared vehicles...

[Vasily))]

There are smart people in the government; they'll figure it out. As the past shows, they solve problems sooner or later. And they'll figure this one out, I'm convinced. Problems need to be raised, but the government is there to solve them.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Vasily))

but there is a government for decisions

And I'll cut him even more!

[faiver]

There are smart people in the government, they will figure it out.

-

[Zoer]

Quote: Vasily))

There are smart people in the government, they will figure it out.

THANK YOU!!! Great joke! You made my day!

Quote: Vasily))

As the past shows, they solve problems sooner or later.

Well, yes, the basement of the Ipatiev house will not let you lie!

[a.shlidt]

I turn on the news, a report on a government meeting. I listen for about three minutes and wonder: what kind of nonsense are they talking about? Social security cuts, tax hikes, the destruction of small businesses. I get poorer every year because of this. So if "there are smart people in the government," then what's their goal? To make me a beggar?

[faiver]

That I would be a beggar?

- No, the ultimate goal is for us to be controlled and dependent: loans, government services, health insurance, residence registration, running around with or without reason for a bunch of useless certificates, examinations, certificates, licenses...

[man]

So if "there are smart people in the government," then what's their goal? To make me a beggar?
Yes

[man]

Quote: Vasily))

There are smart people in the government; they'll figure it out. As the past shows, they solve problems sooner or later. And they'll figure this one out, I'm convinced. Problems need to be raised, but the government is there to solve them.

It's no wonder you have a name with a smiley face.

[faiver]

Sixty years ago, China began by copying Soviet technology. Pictured is the Beijing BJ210.

- Author, tell me, what does Soviet technology have to do with this if the photo shows a Chinese copy of the Willis?

Who showed our Eastern brothers a real SUV? That's right, the Ulyanovsk guys with their UAZ-469.

- Another catch: the Beijing BJ210 was produced in China since 1961, the Beijing BJ212 since 1966, and the UAZ-469 entered production in the USSR only in 1972. And it physically couldn't be supplied to China - relations between the USSR and China had only worsened since the late 50s... The Beijing BJ212 was based on the GAZ-69

[Dedok]

The Beijing BJ212 was based on the GAZ-69

GAZ-69A

[Zoer]

The main purpose of import duties on automobiles in Russia is to stimulate domestic production. The automotive industry has a significant multiplier effect: for every worker at an auto plant, there are 9-10 workers in related industries. For example, if Toyota built an assembly plant in Shushary, dozens of smaller factories sprang up across the country. Some make windshields, others weld tires, and still others roll out rolled steel. That's the ideal case. In reality, cunning automakers used a trick: they disassembled finished cars into several components at home, transported them across the border as spare parts, and then assembled them at a plant in Russia.

Strange, huh? How can these cunning manufacturers "not want" to develop their production with a key rate of 21%? Pure idiocy! Production margins never exceed 16%, and here we're looking at 21-25% of that, handing it over to the banks. Yeah, right, no one's stupid enough to work at a loss.

Subsequently, the Chinese introduced very strict regulations on the import of foreign cars, simultaneously forcing companies to share patents and technologies. Now, Europeans are forced to impose tariffs on Chinese technology—there's no other way to combat it. This lyrical digression vividly demonstrates how protectionism can impact technological development in different ways.

The author forgot to add that the CPC set clear plans, subsidized the industry, and executed cunning, thieving managers if they failed to deliver and stole. Do we have that?

The recycling fee requires urgent restructuring of its fundamental principles. It's not a matter of establishing domestic auto production at any cost, but rather providing citizens with high-quality and relatively affordable vehicles. A family car shouldn't cost as much as a cast-iron bridge.

The scrap tax is simply a tax on the population, nothing more. It's not about the auto industry at all, not even a bit. And these efforts will not develop our auto industry in any way. Why would the Chinese manufacture anything here if our production taxes are simply higher, if our energy prices are higher than in China? Why would they invest their capital in our country? And borrowing from us is a complete waste of time!
The government MUST provide preferential loans and tax breaks, including zero taxes on production, and low energy, gas, and fuel tariffs for manufacturing. Only then will industry in general, and the auto industry in particular, begin to develop! We've forgotten how to smelt SHKh15 ball bearing steel, and the bearings themselves are only 1/20th the size of what they were in the USSR. What kind of auto industry are you dreaming of?

[Yuri L]

This is what the apotheosis of recycling collection in Russia will soon be. Imagine – it's recyclable, hybrid, and environmentally friendly (if you collect it on time). And relatively cheap. All in one, albeit slow, package... Glory to the Sokolovs and Manturovs!

[bar]

The recycling fee is like Schrödinger's cat—it's kind of there, but then it's not. Who, where, and when has seen the car recycling process in Russia?

More money for fish. How much more can we go on about this? Everyone understands perfectly well that the "recycling fee" is simply a way to replenish the country's military budget. War is expensive. It only has an indirect connection to cars, in that it selects those who can voluntarily scrape together the necessary sum. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with this; it's certainly better than spreading these fees evenly across the entire population.

[Stas157]

Quote: bar

Everyone understands perfectly wellthat the "recycling fee" is simply a way to replenish the country's military budget.

No. They don't understand. More like they guess. But nothing more. Are you sure that these so-called "war" taxes will be reduced after the war to their pre-war levels? Of course not. Then how are they war taxes? Where in what document is it stated that they (the increased taxes) are only for the duration of the war (we're officially not at war!)?

[Rooivalk]

Regarding AvtoVAZ specifically, I believe it's a complete failure from a management standpoint. But... I'll try to defend it a little. When the Renault-Nissan-AvtoVAZ concern existed, the foreigners didn't position AvtoVAZ as a single auto plant. In their minds, it was a large number of factories producing auto components and cars. So, when they left and left AvtoVAZ alone, it simply wasn't ready for full-scale car production. It was supplied with components from Renault, Nissan, and Bosch—high-quality, good ones. But they had to choose from crap and even crapter... What was available. What they found. It's not because life is good that they're using Guanokal and Mochakal parts for Vestas. And here we have a trap: low sales, no investment, exorbitant production costs, and management's greed is boundless. And no one needs Chinese VAZs. And they won't be needed—I have a 2017 Vesta, designed by the Swede Andersen—as soon as it falls apart, I'll be a pedestrian. I can't afford a Chinese car for 3,5 million or a Zhiguli for 2,5 million. I'd be better off buying a one-room apartment on the outskirts for that kind of money.

[Vladislav Markov_2]

There's an antelope from a Soviet cartoon that strikes gold with its hoof, but our officials strike shit with their hands; everything they touch turns to feces. And I can explain why. Because the people in power (absolutely every key position) are profiteers from the 90s, their children, and their families. They rise to power based on loyalty and devotion to the tsar and local elites, not on intelligence or professional qualities. The money comes from Russia, and they're smuggled abroad along with their children. No decent official or manager can get a high-ranking position; they'll be rejected or imprisoned; clans like Kadyrov's occupy everything.
And the end and edge of this is not visible.
Therefore, any idea is doomed to failure. For 25 years, the master geostrategist has been blathering on about tripling GDP, a high-wage economy, import substitution, and other such tall tales, but all of this is doomed to failure, because thieves and bandits are incapable of creation due to their limited mental capacity.

[the same doctor]

Guys, for thirty years you've been quoting Thatcher, saying that 50 million people are enough for Russia to service the pipelines and mines. And you acted accordingly, causing a sharp decline in the birth rate of the Slavic population. And now you've woken up to it? Migrants are shooting their fellow soldiers in the army, they don't even bother to stand at their workstations, they're running off the assembly line, and they're killing people in hospitals.
The solution, as AvtoVAZ illustrates, isn't hordes of migrants, but automation of production. I'd like to ask: what percentage of government funding was invested in new equipment? How much was invested in the production of domestic components?
If everything that can be done by machine, rather than by hand, is transferred to machinery, there will be no labor shortage. But to achieve this, we need to spend money on machinery, not steal it.

[Alex013]

The recycling fee in Russia is simply an additional tax. And it's not the seller of the car who pays it (they simply raise the price), but the average buyer, who pays the difference. They'll soon figure out what else to impose it on cars and smartphones...

[Vadim S]

What's more surprising is why we, like the Chinese, can't or are afraid to simply copy normal, beloved cars and produce them? We can copy everything from start to finish: engines, transmissions, drivetrains, materials, electronics—everything exactly, and everyone will be grateful! If we're even that clever, we'll be able to do it ourselves.

[Explainer]

The author suffers from a logical lapse; we read: "Ultimately, protectionism in the auto industry, as in any other industry, should work for the consumer."
In fact, in order to consume something, you have to produce something—that is, you first have to become a producer. Otherwise, how can you pay for goods produced by others?
Logically the same.
But there is one thing: 90% of people in the Russian Federation produce nothing. Logically, they shouldn't consume anything either.
But they consume, and how. The question is, at what expense? By parasitizing on the legacy of their ancestors (primarily the USSR)—they simply devour public funds and public resources.
hence the question how long will this continue?
The point I've made is that a parasitic society can't exist for long. As for what conclusions to draw from this, everyone must decide for themselves.

[Idle_piston]

Russia's recycling fee is limping along.

Here we need to put it a bit more broadly. The entire system of government is limping on both legs, or rather, is on all fours.

[mad-max78]

Quote: Panin (Michman)

Quote from: mad-max78

The article doesn't explain the essence of the term "recycling fee." I've worked in the metallurgy industry for over 20 years, and I'll let everyone in on a secret: if you recycle your old car, no one will pay you or the plant you're recycling it to. There is a recycling fee, and it's huge, but each plant recycles the car independently, at a loss. A car is made up of various materials: the body and chassis are typically steel, but there are also aluminum parts, such as the engine, gearbox, and control arms. These won't be recycled; they must be separated and sent to recycling centers. Windshields, side windows, interior trim, seats, and plastics also shouldn't be recycled. Every car recycling plant must have a shredder, a huge machine that shreds cars and, using magnetism, separates the steel from the non-magnetic body materials. So, practically no Russian plant has such facilities. A single shredder costs tens of millions of dollars, and as far as I know, they are not manufactured in Russia. Now let's summarize: no one pays or subsidizes car recycling to metallurgical plants, shredders are not manufactured in Russia, and yet the recycling fee exists, and this money is spent on everything but car recycling.

Enterprising people buy junk cars for 50-100 thousand, dismantle them, and sell them for scrap metal, making a profit. No recycling fees.

Why did you write this here? What does this have to do with this article?

[kig]

Here's a video of how real car recycling works in a normal country. Watch it, and then you can say, "This is enemy propaganda, the author is a foreign agent, we have our own way," and other such nonsense.

..ook.com/share/r/17xKpnZjAL/

[Nord82]

On the one hand, there is a shortage of people, and on the other, there are low salaries and plans to cut staff with responsibilities being distributed among those who remain.

[shuragr]

In short.
All agree.
Apart from taking money from the population, scrap metal does not and will not bring anything good.
But the state, first and foremost, protects and looks after its own interests. And in other cases, it looks after itself, too. The interests of businesses and the public are irrelevant.

[Chack wessel]

Russian patriots approve of raising the recycling fee and the retirement age!

[Evgeny_4]

- I remember pre-retirement age patriots in our "smoking rooms" worshiping the Tsar, tearing their shirts at the chest.
Then the tsar actually raised the pension. At our place of work, the patriots deflated and shut up. Because we still have five more years of work to do.
Almost five years ago, in the month of the same name, an event behind a ribbon began. Patriots at work wanted to tear me apart when I said that nothing good would come of it.
Once again the patriots have lost heart and shut up.
- Patriots at work again, they wanted to prove to me that the recycling fee doesn't apply to them. They say that rich people only change their cars.
The new recycling fee will affect everyone. All goods are delivered by road. This will raise prices on everything.

[Chack wessel]

I once worked for some design organization (I had to sit out for a while), and the majority of the staff were grannies. Well past retirement age, at that. And one day I noticed a certain commotion among them—the grannies (not all of them, of course) were wearing flowers and placing tricolor flags on their tables. So, I asked what had happened? Apparently, the Russian national team had won something. I asked, "So, what's the big deal?" The answer was, "It's patriotic." I asked again, "So what's the big deal?"... I shouldn't have asked that question! I immediately became an agent of the Entente in the eyes of society.
P.S. I don't argue with patriots. Or rather, with "patriots."

[Il'nur]

More and more manufacturing facilities are opening in Russia, and they are starting to compete for customers.

Yeah, it looked good on paper, but our leaders didn't quite fit into the market, and they told us fairy tales about it...

[interest]

Protective duties ("scrap") would work if the price of an AvtoVAZ (a domestic manufacturer) remained at the same level as before the duties were introduced (plus or minus inflation). Ideally, this should be the government's condition for the manufacturers who lobby for them. But for some reason, they don't give a damn about this. The manufacturer simply raises prices on its products by the amount of the duties on the domestic market, reaping excess profits (that's where the cards come in handy!). The result is this mess with AvtoVAZ and others.

[awdrgy]

We'll never see a decent car at a reasonable price until it's used for making money, not for ourselves or others. And is it even necessary anymore? For whom?

[Rolaf]

In recent years, Russians have been accustomed to new phrases with astonishing impudence.
The recycling fee is a tax on the buyer. And if it's used to support domestic producers in order to bolster consumer demand, that's absurd.
VAT (value added tax) under the simplified tax system is a tax on turnover (sales).
Substitution of concepts is a terrible phenomenon used by the authorities of many countries.

[Victor Tsenin]

>we'll have to invite migrant workers

We need to robotize and automate the lines, not bring in migrants.
The need for price control and punishment of insolent managers is obvious to everyone.

[BAI]

At the same time, it would be good not to create competition for AvtoVAZ.

Without competition, VAZ will finally go bad.

[Chack wessel]

Where else can I go to rot?

[LuZappa]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

to a businessman who doesn't give a damn about Russia

And what if a businessman doesn't care? For some reason, I don't think we should single out businessmen in this regard.

[Chack wessel]

I wonder how they manage without a scrap collection system, for example, in China? Do they dump old cars in the ocean there, or do they just litter the roads?
...And the term "recycling fee" doesn't mean what everyone thinks. It refers to a fee (extortion) for the scrap produced by our auto industry. :)

[mad-max78]

Quote: Chack Wessel

I wonder how the USSR got by without shredders? And how do they get by without recycling collection in, say, China? Do they dump old cars in the ocean there?

How can you compare the number of cars in the USSR and now in the Russian Federation? Secondly, do you know of many cases where someone in the USSR handed over their car for melting down?

[vldmrom]

Get rid of Sokolov and his gang with their six-figure salaries first!!! And then invite outsiders and pay them properly. We have clowns on TV demanding 500000 rubles a day of filming and feeding worthless football players, etc., etc. That's how it is.

[Vasily))]

I praised the government and said that the country needs AVTOVAZ, that it absolutely must be preserved and, to the best of our ability, developed. I was met with negativity. Not a single comment was in favor, everything was against. I want to respond to everyone at once.
There are tons of cars in the country for every budget, new and used. Do you want VAZs for 500 rubles? Are you personally ready to work 40 hours a week for 40 rubles a month? Without AvtoVAZ, do you think anyone will offer us cars for a million? Even if we remove the recycling fee? AvtoVAZ keeps the entire Western auto industry, which wants to enter our market, on its toes, and the state should support it. Your enemies support their own, and you want to support your enemies. Aren't you stupid? We all have our own desires, but the government is thinking about us all; its job is to protect the Motherland. If you listened to all of you, half the country would be out of work, and the country would lose entire sectors of the economy.

[lazy]

But this tax only encourages local manufacturers to raise prices, not new models and quality. It's possible, but why bother? They'll buy them anyway. UAZ owners came to the government and complained, telling them what would happen if they went bankrupt, and social tensions arose. And then government procurement began. They could have bought a good ambulance for the villages, but why support the domestic manufacturer? So, the villagers have to go to the hospital in a loaf of bread? Maybe UAZ spent the money from sales on new models? No. It's possible, but why bother? Okay, there are no new models, it's the owners' fault, but the workers assemble them crookedly. Can't they assemble them well? It's possible, but why bother? They'll buy them anyway.