Military Review

The reason for the decline in the percentage of non-statutory relations in the Russian army

62
The reason for the decline in the percentage of non-statutory relations in the Russian armyIn many military units today video surveillance complexes are being introduced. According to representatives of the Ministry of Defense, video surveillance will minimize the possibility of manifestation of non-statutory relations in the army. Video cameras allow officers on duty to track what is happening in the army barracks. According to some data, namely video surveillance, the systems of which are implemented in Russian military units, made it possible to significantly reduce the indices of hazing, which for many young people is the main army horror story.


However, video surveillance systems are far from the only option to combat non-statutory relations in the Russian army. The very fact that the lengthy conscription service in the Russian army has been reduced to 12-months, strikes whenever possible the manifestation of unsettling. Of course, the development of hazing does not always play a dominant role, but its decline clearly led to a serious decline in the “non-statutory activity” among draftees. If the 2-year-old version of the service, according to the traditions that had been framed for several decades, implied a non-advertised division of conscripts into special categories that are familiar to all who served, today these traditions have largely been violated, which caused a rather powerful blow to hazing.

Another blow to non-statutory relations in the army can be considered permission in many military units to use mobile phones as conscripts. In fact, any soldier can call, for example, the military prosecutor’s office, whose phone today is in each military unit on a special information stand, and report the fact of non-statutory relations. Naturally, in this case, all the reported facts will be carefully checked, since under the guise of a call from a serviceman-conscript, false calls with certain fraudulent purposes can be made.

The use of mobile phones in the army today is widely discussed in Russian society. Many believe that this relief for the soldiers is superfluous, but the soldiers themselves, who serve on conscription today, do not think so. The phone allows the soldier to be in touch with the house at virtually any time off from service, which also makes it easier to carry out military service
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  1. Lopatov
    Lopatov 8 May 2013 09: 51 New
    20
    The main reason for the "reduction in the percentage of hazing in the Russian army" is the high monetary allowance of the officers and, as a result, a much larger percentage of concealment of the facts of the careless. The officer began to lose too much for revealing the crimes of his subordinates himself and referring the matter to the military prosecutor's office.

    Here CCTV does not fix anything, it is necessary to change the system itself.
    For normal commanders, relieve them of responsibility for criminal cases instituted on subordinates.
    For those who do not fulfill their functions, a normal military police with the right to conduct a preliminary investigation, and not subordinate to the command of the unit. And then the bodies of the "military service and military service security" involved in this are one of the main tools for concealing crimes
    1. Dmitry T
      Dmitry T 8 May 2013 11: 42 New
      +4
      Soon conscripts will begin to demand Coca-Cola. I don’t know, I liked everything in my service, there were, of course, stupid uneducated people, but in general, discipline was at its best, no indulgences, there were no phones, but of course there were tons of letters, now there is something to read, remember, very nice . Hazing is not such a bad thing, if it excludes real crimes and actions of a dangerous nature, but it socially tempers .. If now it harms military training, if it really got better, then some solutions are necessary, but to be honest, after reform, the service seems to be a kindergarten, and the guys, without parting with the citizen for a moment, return with the same co-workers, do not feel all the "charms" of deprivation. Here is such a personal opinion. ps And yes, 1 year is not enough.
      1. iliq
        iliq 8 May 2013 11: 51 New
        +2
        Quote: Dmitry T
        Soon conscripts will begin to demand Coca-Cola.

        and what, already in the store to buy nizya?
        and they smoke filter cigarettes, not cigarettes! and this, the worst thing - they use the TOILET PAPER, not burdock!
        laughing
      2. Svatdevostator
        Svatdevostator 8 May 2013 12: 54 New
        0
        So that there is no bullying, you need as much practical training as possible, there will be no time to be engaged in foolishness, and officers in the CCA will sit out and spend time with the personnel.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 8 May 2013 13: 19 New
          0
          Will not help. Checked.
          1. s1н7т
            s1н7т 9 May 2013 01: 22 New
            0
            This is how to implement. If an officer does this from under a stick, then, of course, it will not help. And when a company is a second home, it helps. Checked. Have we served in different armies? laughing
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 9 May 2013 02: 11 New
              0
              Probably. If you give such a load so that the old-timers barely crawl to the beds, the young simply die.

              Young - one pull up for ten, grandfathers - ten for one. You understand, a huge problem.
              Young people have to learn the multiplication table, grandfathers perform fire missions for platoon commanders at the graduate level of the military department of the institute

              Here is my army. And yours?
      3. yurta2013
        yurta2013 8 May 2013 17: 55 New
        +2
        Hazing morally corrupted not only our army (and fleet), but the entire state system. After all, military service was and is considered an important argument in admission to public service. And what could one expect there from a person with the traditions he has learned of unpunished mockery of people and receiving undeserved benefits at their expense? It is no coincidence that the so-called era of stagnation, with its developed system of cronyism and various scales of theft of state property, was formed almost simultaneously with bullying in the late 60s.
    2. iliq
      iliq 8 May 2013 11: 49 New
      +1
      or the main reason is a reduction in service life, when the "spirits" and "grandfathers" simply do not intersect? plus the availability of mobile phones and even the great explanatory work of bloggers about contacting the military prosecutor’s office.
      the officers did not become "new", as they served, and serve ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 8 May 2013 12: 48 New
        +3
        Dear, there is an unregulated person even in fully contracted units. There is a lack of discipline in military schools, where units with cadets of different courses are a rarity. Better suited to the service of frigging "suckers" - sissies, weak, less fit. Army teams- tough thing
        Reducing the service life does not solve anything. The only cardinal decision is to participate in hostilities. But here the ranking remains. Although excesses with beatings and bullying will not be.

        According to the officers from schools come worse prepared to work with personnel. Looks like they dryuchit there. Humanization, push it. You can learn methods of working with personnel only in your own skin.
        1. iliq
          iliq 8 May 2013 13: 14 New
          -2
          I didn’t understand anything from the stream of consciousness ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 8 May 2013 13: 18 New
            +3
            Serve, you will understand. Business then.
        2. yurta2013
          yurta2013 8 May 2013 18: 09 New
          0
          Unstoppable stumble. Cases of "dryuchki" are little adapted for service - this is still not an army tradition, but the usual problems of any youth collective. The reduction of the service life inflicted a serious blow precisely on the established tradition, although, in my opinion, it is not yet decisive and not final. After all, it seems that the division into spring and autumn sets has still been preserved, which means that the division by service life is also preserved. This is the main source of hazing, although, I hope, on a more limited scale. As for the officers, those of them who themselves have well mastered the traditions of hazing in the school are unlikely to seriously struggle with their manifestations among subordinates.
          1. iliq
            iliq 8 May 2013 18: 20 New
            0
            Quote: yurta2013
            The reduction of the service life inflicted a serious blow precisely on the established tradition, although, in my opinion, it is not yet decisive and not final.

            and this is good!

            Quote: yurta2013
            the division into spring and autumn sets has still been preserved, which means that the division by service life is also preserved. This is the main source of hazing, although, I hope, on a more limited scale.

            if earlier for the "development of the grandfather" was 1.5 years, now it has been reduced to 0.5 years;)
            1. s.lekomtseff
              s.lekomtseff 8 May 2013 23: 21 New
              0
              Quote: yurta2013

              if earlier for the "development of the grandfather" was 1.5 years, now it has been reduced to 0.5 years;)


              this is bad !!!!
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 8 May 2013 20: 37 New
            0
            Quote: yurta2013
            As for the officers, those of them who themselves have well mastered the traditions of hazing in the school are unlikely to seriously struggle with their manifestations among subordinates.

            Even if hazing brings them tangible problems?
        3. s1н7т
          s1н7т 9 May 2013 01: 37 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          You can learn methods of working with personnel only in your own skin.

          Gee! "Checked-min no" laughing
          After urgent, it is somehow easier to separate the grains from the chaff, of course.
          At school, they could "dryate" only until a person "joins" the service, then - a rebuff. Usually the first semester. But there was an arbiter - an academic platoon / group, who could say - stop, if an excess occurs. So it was with us, anyway. There were problems with senior courses, of course, but the herd instinct was already working here - the whole company was rising. The incident was quickly extinguished. "World", that, this question was settled. And - punishment, to the exclusion. Some of you are one-sidedly evil, Shovels laughing After graduation, I was just sure of the officer fraternity. Of course, over time, he “wised up”, but here it is - what you profess, you will receive. It’s clear that the people are different, they come across “what’s horrible”, but the others who hear you, they get infected, huh?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 9 May 2013 02: 26 New
            0
            Quote: c1n7
            There were problems with senior courses, of course, but the herd instinct was already working here - the whole company was rising.

            Et know. Our battery piled on the second year immediately after KMB. For 5 spoons and three plates of stainless steel. I still remember.

            Quote: c1n7
            At the school, they could "dryate" only until a person "joins" the service, then - a rebuff.

            Someone like. In our platoon, this stopped even at the first agricultural work. Willful decision for a cup. They didn’t touch them themselves, and they didn’t give “steepness” from other platoons.
            The rest, in different ways. In the fourth platoon, a gop-company with a castle at the head of their castle was drilled until the end of the third, until they were scattered across other platoons.

            Quote: c1n7
            After graduation, I was just sure of the officer fraternity.

            Brotherhood? It is. Between each other you can arrange graters as you like. But when an external force appears ... I don’t know, I have never come across a service. Is that a date, but no one considered it as his.
    3. s1н7т
      s1н7т 9 May 2013 01: 18 New
      +1
      Hm. At other times, he was an interrogator in the unit. At the command of the commander, he conducted inquiries on the state of emergency - injuries, gunshot wounds, etc. The commander signed, sent to the prosecutor. And NEVER wrapped a single material! There was a case when prosecutors specified - Are you sure that the case should be given a move? He answered - yes, I do not need rot. And no one asked him for this - he recorded it, investigated it himself, took measures - transferred it to the prosecutor's office. That is, there was a real "king, god and military commander." And so it should be, in my opinion. Otherwise, he is nobody. As long as people are serving in the army, simple algorithms will not work. It would be necessary to return as it was, but now where to get those commanders - the question, of course. And video, etc., is a nonsense, for much happens outside the barracks, for example. Military police are like Nanotech Chubais laughing
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 9 May 2013 02: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: c1n7
        The commander signed, sent to the prosecutor.

        Iron eggs. They have never come across such.
  2. svp67
    svp67 8 May 2013 09: 52 New
    +3
    The use of mobile phones in the army today is widely discussed in Russian society.
    This question is really not idle, since there is a certain specificity of the army service, implying the secrecy of certain actions and information. why, probably, it would be necessary to collect all the recruits for half a year in certain “training centers of the 1 level”, which will be created in each region where the possibility of communication via mobile phones should be great. After graduating from the training unit, the draftee, according to the results of his assessment, will be offered to either undergo training in some kind of "2 level training center" for a specialist or to serve in any support unit, where the question of communication will already be clearly regulated .... With such a system, there will be much less reasons for hazing.
  3. Goodmen
    Goodmen 8 May 2013 10: 02 New
    10
    Cool! Another raving "asshole".
    If you want from .. to - from ..! And the cameras will not help! smile
    The presence of hazing or its absence depends on personal qualities and an adequate attitude to the duties of the officer corps of the unit. Maybe you need to give more authority to the officers? At the very least, do not imprison them for maintaining order in the entrusted units in ways that scumbags only understand. There were cases when our officers were closed for stuffed Caucasian muzzles.
    And bullying in its normal manifestation is better than statism. wink
    1. Kolovrat77
      Kolovrat77 8 May 2013 11: 16 New
      +3
      I support. Competent hazing is an order. Everyone knows everything, everyone knows how.
      1. Vrungel78
        Vrungel78 8 May 2013 11: 28 New
        +4
        Competent hazing is coaching.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 8 May 2013 11: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Vrungel78
          Competent hazing is coaching.


          I totally agree.
          Deficiency in this regard - succession is lost among the rank and file.
          Inflection is an irregularity.

          Now, as with diapers, they enter the army, so they go to them. Not a service but hell knows what.
          I already wrote what those who still serve tell: mechanic-drivers of tanks, as such, are not among conscripts now. There are drivers who know how to press pedals and sincerely believe that representatives of the plant should fill in the solarium and change the oil.
          And there was a case when the modern "soldier" (obviously not a fighter), wrinkling his nose, refused to eat cabbage soup. Do you know why? Because there was fried onions, but he does not love him! In how.
          Himself would be annoyed with all zeal.

          We always have extremes, namely extremes: either complete crap or the greenhouse of the institution of noble maidens.
          1. yurta2013
            yurta2013 8 May 2013 18: 30 New
            0
            No exaggeration. Most draftees are now able to fill diesel fuel and change oil well before service. The main purpose of military service in peacetime is tolerably to train the reserve for the deployment of the army in case of war. It is quite possible to learn this for a year provided that the combat training is quite intensive. Moreover, the soldier does not have to master the art there. As for succession, it is better to destroy such "succession" as hazing once and for all.
        2. JIaIIoTb
          JIaIIoTb 8 May 2013 11: 57 New
          +2
          When a young replenishment came to our unit, it was all attached to grandfathers (mentors). Grandfather was responsible for his education and health, both physical and psychological. Not any inconsistency in the broad sense of the word was not. Each grandfather was well aware of what would happen to him if young people suffer from unregulatedness.
          Sincerely.
    2. Vrungel78
      Vrungel78 8 May 2013 11: 26 New
      +6
      Quote: Goodmen
      There were cases when our officers were closed for stuffed Caucasian muzzles.

      They didn’t close me, but there was a condition. He took cattle cutlets from his call (I commanded a training company in training), sniffed glue, which I came across. Took off his pants and walked off the bare ass with a belt. The judge then neighing.
    3. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 8 May 2013 11: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: Goodmen
      And bullying in its normal manifestation is better than statistism

      Definitely ++++.
      And then, what kind of warrior is he who is afraid of his colleagues ???
      It is necessary to fight with bespredelom in the army, and not with hazing ....
      1. yurta2013
        yurta2013 8 May 2013 18: 32 New
        +1
        Hazing in its purest form is chaos. A few exceptions only confirm the rule.
    4. yurta2013
      yurta2013 8 May 2013 18: 20 New
      +1
      True combat readiness is provided by statism, not hazing, which only undermines it. Hazing itself could and can exist only because of the connivance of the immediate commanders - junior officers and ensigns, who, in most cases, encourage it. The reason is that you do not need to work on your own to educate young soldiers. Grandfathers will do everything. This is the source of hazing. It was not by chance that her appearance followed shortly after the mass dismissal of the most experienced officer and long-serving senior officers from the Soviet army in the late 50s or early 60s. (I do not remember exactly). There was no one to work with youth in the unit itself, and young officers removed themselves from this problem.
  4. Larus
    Larus 8 May 2013 10: 04 New
    +6
    You won’t put cameras everywhere, but a lot depends on the commander how he puts the work with l / s, etc.
  5. Nayhas
    Nayhas 8 May 2013 10: 10 New
    +6
    Idiocy multiplied by corruption. Until fellow officers want to work, nothing will change.
  6. waisson
    waisson 8 May 2013 10: 13 New
    +6
    what hazing for a year of service they there that from a nursery group to a preschool got over how they left the army for a year with milk on their lips and diapers in their pants and come back. divorced kindergarten committees, etc. and the phone is a godsend for a spy
    1. iliq
      iliq 8 May 2013 11: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: waisson
      and the phone is a godsend for the spy

      poor Americans, they have a soldier running with Ifon, all the secrets are no longer secrets! laughing
  7. fenix57
    fenix57 8 May 2013 10: 18 New
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    This question is really not idle, since there is a certain specificity of the army service, implying the secrecy of certain actions and information.

    Here is the "cornerstone", and video surveillance ... and whoever controls the panel ...?
    Maybe everything rests on the MOST "Salah, Skulls, Negroes", etc. Maybe you need to start with this .... You do not need to develop, A ..? ... hi yes
  8. SHOCK.
    SHOCK. 8 May 2013 10: 18 New
    +2
    Quote: Goodmen
    And bullying in its normal manifestation is better than statism.

    Put +, although I do not agree with this.
  9. Asgard
    Asgard 8 May 2013 10: 23 New
    24
    1986 Maynas brought 11 people to the military unit, all 18 years old. Growth 190, junior athletes))) I had the rank of master of sports in skiing, someone had sambo, biathlon ... a month passed in quarantine like one day, wiped my heels with footcloths to bloody corns, taught me how to sew, clean my boots with wax)) ) smelling foul (then the truth already liked the smell)) took the oath to the companies ...
    Friday evening, we were assembled by old-timers in the washroom (where the military are washing)) well, they make a showdown)) they threw us the collars and socks (the thieves wore them)) and ordered to wash ....
    Well, we essno refused. They should wash their own mall))) Since I was an informal center for beginners, they tried to put me off my feet, knocking my kneecap with my boot .... in vain they certainly did so)))
    I jumped))) grabbing a chair I immediately put two ... Shouting to hold the door, the others also started kneading "grandfathers" by the way, too, the strong guys were (then we became friends))) but the result was such grandfathers and sympathizers were utterly defeated (which means tactics))) in number of 23 people another 12 escaped from the location of the company))) ribs were broken, faces were broken, one damaged the eye ....
    The person on duty came in (with a gun)) even fired a warning shot)) and all of us “newcomers” were taken to the lip .... Saturday and Sunday we spent there - this was the first month of service)))
    On Monday, the Chief of Staff, regiment of Khludeev (low bow to him)) led us to the battalion formation and ordered everyone to do so ALWAYS. since YOU ARE WARRIORS ....
    And I never again participated in hazing. what kind of blood was given to the leadership of the unit, I later found out ... but in the unit the instigator completely disappeared. I was appropriated somewhere in a month younger, after a year of service according to the results of check gave the foreman.
    It all depends on the people, and specifically on you and me.
    our desire to humiliate and endure ....
    do not tolerate.
    1. Retx
      Retx 8 May 2013 11: 07 New
      +4
      Quote: Asgard
      DO ALWAYS SO. since YOU ARE WARRIORS ....

      Golden words good
    2. seller trucks
      seller trucks 8 May 2013 11: 30 New
      +1
      I read somewhere that the notorious, in the future, Lieutenant Schmidt, at the school led an uprising against senior students who mocked junior courses, this is also to the fact that the problem of hazing has been rooted in the times of Tsarist Russia.
      1. DmitriRazumov
        DmitriRazumov 8 May 2013 12: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: seller trucks
        that the problem of hazing has been rooted in Tsarist Russia.

        In any normal male collective, hierarchical relations always exist. In the army, this is called hazing. It is important that hazing does not cross certain boundaries and locks up at the level of training young service skills. Here, of course, the role of officers is especially great. And they should not be punished for identifying crimes in their own units.
        1. Asgard
          Asgard 8 May 2013 12: 52 New
          +1
          The most important thing is not to be afraid of yourself, but you will always be supported, including at the very top. Act in good conscience. Big bosses have a conscience. If you are desperate and courageous, a army is going to be behind your shoulders, out of courage, like-minded people, luck, luck, Gods and Angels .... and never back down, our business is Right ...

          And Us Rat)))))
          1. yurta2013
            yurta2013 8 May 2013 18: 43 New
            +2
            Much depends on the position of the immediate superiors - officers and warrant officers. If they encourage hazing, then any rebellion against it is useless (I know from experience).
      2. yurta2013
        yurta2013 8 May 2013 18: 40 New
        +2
        In officer and cadet schools, yes, but not among the soldiers. In the tradition of the Russian pre-revolutionary army, there was an institution of fraternity, that is, fellow countrymen formed their own circle within the unit, in which all everyday problems were solved. Even fellow countrymen sat at the same table. Of course, senior and junior services were distinguished by the year, but the relations between them were quite friendly. Under hazing, the army is split into several categories, each of which hates the other.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 8 May 2013 20: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: yurta2013
          In officer and cadet schools, yes, but not among the soldiers.

          I agree. Just among the soldiers, this "mentoring" was legalized. Therefore, hazing was not considered.
    3. someone
      someone 8 May 2013 13: 02 New
      +1
      Since I was an informal center for beginners, they tried to put me off my feet, knocking my kneecap out with my boot ....


      Dear Asgard, what if the balance of power was not in your favor and the “grandfathers” managed to knock you out a patella? And put all your resistance in the washroom? Now you would be a different person. Thank fate that you were not alone. But your case is more likely an exception. For the most part, there is a place to be the worse.
      It is a pity that to normalize the situation it took a "mini-battle" in the "washroom".
      In our country, as always, until the thunder strikes, the man does not cross himself.
  10. SHOCK.
    SHOCK. 8 May 2013 10: 25 New
    +8
    Now who killed or whom the hero was smeared off, and earlier it was a shame. Everything was turned upside down.
    1. iliq
      iliq 8 May 2013 13: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Sh.O.K.
      Everything is upside down.

      so why mow something? probably from the fact that the army was better than a civilian for the past 20 years, health there, food, education, discipline ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 8 May 2013 13: 21 New
        0
        The army is safer than the civilian.
  11. treskoed
    treskoed 8 May 2013 10: 28 New
    +5
    I believe that now it’s not bullying in the troops, but some sort of grouping, by fellow countrymen, nationality ... If the Caucasians are in the barracks in the majority, they order "music", regardless of their service life.
  12. SHOCK.
    SHOCK. 8 May 2013 10: 47 New
    +3
    Quote: treskoed
    I believe that now it’s not bullying in the troops, but some sort of grouping, by fellow countrymen, nationality ... If the Caucasians are in the barracks in the majority, they order "music", regardless of their service life.

    Well, it was the same in S.A., but after all they served and did not cry without mobile phones, committees, etc. Who said that there should be a resort in the army.
  13. USNik
    USNik 8 May 2013 10: 54 New
    0
    Another blow to the hazing in the army can be considered permission in many military units to use mobile phones by conscripts.

    And the fact that even the simplest phones have cameras, the charter is taken into account? I would not want to watch videos with titles like “drift on T72 between a barrel with a kyrosin and boxes of pineapples! 1 !! 1111 !!” ...
  14. tun1313
    tun1313 8 May 2013 11: 04 New
    +1
    The soldier should be constantly busy, preferably studying, then there will be no graduation.
    1. iliq
      iliq 8 May 2013 11: 56 New
      -1
      Quote: tun1313
      The soldier must be constantly busy.

      Well, yes, well ... she understands nothing but the mat ... and even the crowbar will break ...
      1. Andrew-001
        Andrew-001 8 May 2013 15: 23 New
        +1
        You laugh in vain. Sometimes everything is just as you say.
        1. iliq
          iliq 8 May 2013 15: 29 New
          +1
          so I don’t laugh - if the boss is bastard, then the subordinates are the same. and the best indicator of the work of such a boss is painted grass, sweeping the parade ground with a crowbar, beating off cantiks ... and three cartridges shot by a soldier in 2 years of service ...
          1. Andrew-001
            Andrew-001 8 May 2013 16: 49 New
            0
            The boss is not born "cattle" - he becomes them after many years of communication with the "fighters" who were unable to either run away or slander from the army. It’s hard to talk normally, and sometimes it’s not possible with a nerd who somehow finished 11 classes and thundered against his will in the army. He perceives normal words as the weakness of his superiors.
            And where the personnel are normal - there is no such problem, at least so sharply.
            1. iliq
              iliq 8 May 2013 17: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: Andrew-001
              The boss is not born "cattle" - he becomes them after many years of communication with the "fighters" who were unable to either run away or slander from the army.

              man always remains human ...
              and many are looking for reasons - and the soldiers are all fools, and "his grenades have the wrong system!"

              Quote: Andrew-001
              With a fool somehow finished 11 classes

              it's hard to call a half-fool who finished 11 classes ...
              what can we say about those who graduated from 8 classes and vocational schools?

              Quote: Andrew-001
              rattled against his will in the army, it’s hard to talk normally, and sometimes it’s not possible.

              he who wants - he seeks ways; he who does not want - seeks reasons ...

              Quote: Andrew-001
              He perceives normal words as the weakness of his superiors.

              need to work like that, no?
              but in the USSR and the Russian Federation it won’t reach for a long time that the commander of over fifty teenagers MUST have a pedagogical education. that a fresh leiteha MUST undergo an internship to work with personnel at the instructor, gain experience under the supervision of senior officers.

              Quote: Andrew-001
              And where the personnel are normal - there is no such problem, at least so sharply.

              and who does this personnel “educate”?
              read the "company notes" - after all, people work, they don’t cry about bad people:
              http://artofwar.ru/p/parshikow_i_j/index_6.shtml
              1. Andrew-001
                Andrew-001 8 May 2013 20: 14 New
                0
                Quote: iliq
                man always remains human

                Conditions mean a lot in the development of a person’s personality.
                Quote: iliq
                it’s hard to call a half-fool who finished 11 classes

                Easy - talk to those of them who graduated from high school, but couldn’t go to college.
                Quote: iliq
                whoever wants is seeking ways

                и
                Quote: iliq
                need to work like that

                The best way - to drive the right information - quickly and efficiently, time-tested.

                Quote: iliq
                commander of over fifty teenagers MUST have a teacher education

                I agree 100% with this, but one clarification - 18-27 years old - these are not teenagers anymore - these are adults.
                Quote: iliq
                and who is bringing up this personnel

                First of all, the family and the closest associates, then school, and a man with an already formed upbringing enters the army.
                1. iliq
                  iliq 9 May 2013 00: 30 New
                  0
                  Quote: Andrew-001
                  Easy - talk to those of them who graduated from high school, but couldn’t go to college.

                  I communicate normally ...

                  Quote: Andrew-001
                  The best way - to drive the right information - quickly and efficiently, time-tested.

                  just something else was checked over time - and we see the result: the officers simply do not have knowledge of the subject matter and are not able to transfer what they know to the soldiers ... and cover it with excuses like "stupid soldier", "drive in knowledge."

                  Quote: Andrew-001
                  18-27 years old are not teenagers anymore - they are adults.

                  don't you find yourself contradicting yourself? or isn’t you talking about 11th grade recourse

                  Quote: Andrew-001
                  First of all, the family and the closest associates, then school, and a man with an already formed upbringing enters the army.

                  come on, drop it!
                  I gave the "company notes" link - everything is very well and intelligibly painted.
              2. Lopatov
                Lopatov 8 May 2013 20: 33 New
                0
                Quote: iliq
                but in the USSR and the Russian Federation it won’t reach for a long time that the commander of over fifty teenagers MUST have a pedagogical education


                There is total ignorance of the subject of discussion. The fact is that both in the USSR and in Russia, every cadet of a military school studied, is studying, and will continue to study military psychology and pedagogy.
                Both in the USSR and in Russia, each cadet undergoes an internship in the troops
                1. iliq
                  iliq 9 May 2013 00: 33 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  The fact is that both in the USSR and in Russia, every cadet of a military school studied, is studying, and will continue to study military psychology and pedagogy.

                  the result of this "training" we see in reality ... filkina diploma.

                  Quote: Spade
                  Both in the USSR and in Russia, each cadet undergoes an internship in the troops

                  and this "internship" was seen and felt more than once laughing
                  and then comes the vine, "dumb salad," "parents must educate," and other excuses.
            2. gremlin1977
              gremlin1977 8 May 2013 23: 48 New
              0
              I would have told you non-literally, but I’ll explain it. I went to serve in the army myself. I chose the military family. Total: 2 trips to the firing range of 12 rounds were fired, ran 1 km., Ate, dumped into the barracks. All combat training for the service. During where they waited for the mansion of heaven more than one case of unregulated relationships. With the blunt sweeping of the parade ground, painting fences and curbs, carrying unnecessary outfits (absolutely idiotic, such as a guard at the flag, 2 hours standing under CCTV in a closed building? Why? Just don’t need about honor and pride.!) A non-employee pops up in all its glory precisely with the connivance and more often with the tacit consent of officers who do not want to work and communicate with the soldiers (there were good exceptions). And the squad was normal and as someone writes. You were probably born precisely by the very name you call the rank and file who are then sent to slaughter calling it heroism.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 8 May 2013 23: 58 New
                0
                Eka you are lucky. My shot three times a week. Apart from occupations in the main specialty. And at the same time, they cleaned the territory, painted the borders with cement milk, and stood in guard-dresses. And they ran ... Like horses.
                I think they would be very envious of you.

                About the officers. In my time, a hematoma on the shin “cost” three cans of paint and a package of electrodes. I mean, hiding. If it passes through the channels to the division, about 5 times more expensive, they will be deprived of everything.
                Do you think officers need it?
                1. TSOOBER
                  TSOOBER 9 May 2013 02: 14 New
                  0
                  Regarding your comment about surveillance cameras at military unit 1235, they were put everywhere by a smoking room with washbasins and a toilet over the “nightstand”. The hazing-dryer died like a dinosaur (everything is written on hard disks by the assistant on duty)! But this one has a good thing the flip side - the part was “delayed” so that we couldn’t breathe (after all, it was not for nothing that the “old people” asked one question during my service — will we be by the charter or by hazing? engage in foolishness and chose hazing-rub, ,,, according to the charter you can worse!)
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 9 May 2013 02: 35 New
                    0
                    That’s all nonsense. If soldiers serve in the unit. who cannot deceive video surveillance and shove their colleague in the teeth, the officers need to be driven out of the army — tactical training is badly delivered.
                    1. TSOOBER
                      TSOOBER 9 May 2013 14: 08 New
                      0
                      if you set a goal to deceive the video surveillance system, then of course you can find a solution (who would argue) but the conversation is not about that, I wrote that they eliminated hazing as a mass phenomenon (isolated cases will skip clearly) and responsibility is inevitable everything is written! composition for bruises and bruises if suspected, the interrogation of a soldier watching a video and making a decision (I don’t know how you do in Russia and here in Belarus we’ll maximize the military prosecutor’s office, the exit court in the club doesn’t have all at the meeting, the announcement of the verdict and the maximum possible time)!
              2. TSOOBER
                TSOOBER 9 May 2013 02: 01 New
                0
                can be more detailed the part number and type of troops (I Belarus)
  15. crambol
    crambol 8 May 2013 11: 25 New
    0
    Many They believe that this relief for the soldiers is superfluous, but the soldiers themselves, who are on conscription service today, do not think so.

    These MANY are those who have the most hazing in their units.
  16. Anti
    Anti 8 May 2013 11: 26 New
    +3
    The vicious practice of punishing officers should be abolished because of the hazing between soldiers. And they will not hide, but rather do what they should. According to the Charter.
  17. Vtel
    Vtel 8 May 2013 11: 27 New
    +1
    In a number of military units, officers use hazing as a management method, because they do not want to engage in training young people, as well as educational work. And all sorts of cameras - toys for children. It is necessary to change the system, conduct moral, educational and patriotic work. A lot of things depend on the officers. There was no hazing during the war, but on the contrary, the old-timers helped the young, because it is better to have a friend in battle than a bullet in the back.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 8 May 2013 13: 17 New
      0
      This is nonsense. Nobody uses hazing as a management method, because the possible "overhead" is too high.
  18. dmb
    dmb 8 May 2013 12: 11 New
    0
    And will we install cameras in the outhouse too? Or do you naively believe that the idiots who shoot scuffles on a mobile phone and put it on the Web do not understand what they are doing? Of all the ways to deal with unregulated, the most “sawn” one is chosen, and least effective. Even a fully contracted army will not solve the problem radically. Example of higher education institutions. Is there no massacre there? But there the collective is more united both in goals and in education and physical training. Already tried to create units of the same draft term, it did not give an effective result, but the combat readiness decreased. The reasons are clear, an officer cannot completely transfer skills without the participation of more experienced soldiers in this transfer. But with the responsibility of officers, the question is much more complicated. On paper three hundred times it has already been written that responsibility should be personal. We act on the principle that the commander is responsible for everything. Alternatively, the normative consolidation of the fact that the punishment of an officer for a crime committed by subordinates should follow only after a decision is made in the case by law enforcement agencies, based on their reasoned conclusion. Of course, after rampant "liberalization", penalties and the return of disciplinary arrest are necessary. And of course, you can put cameras.
  19. individual
    individual 8 May 2013 12: 32 New
    +4
    He served urgent in the 68-70s of the last century. Conscripts, as now, were from workers and peasants. Most went to serve with enthusiasm, armed with the idea of ​​defending their homeland. Hazing was, but only for the period of reform of the Army (to serve from 3 years for a period of 2 years). Grandfathers were respected, and they treated us indifferently - realizing that we were just a replacement for them. Conscripts of my generation did not know alcohol, drugs, debauchery. On the citizen they ate enough high-calorie healthy food. There was no progressive division into rich and poor. At school, physical education and sport were instilled in groups and talents. Remember the rhythm, aerobics, we went to gyms, comprehensive schools with parents. In real life, the motto was "Mom, Dad, I am a sports family." We came to the ranks of the Soviet Army as strong guys capable of standing up for themselves. After the collapse of the USSR, the very system of social life, everyday life, and culture collapsed. I became a “scoop” by definition of the new masters of life. The impoverishment of people of work led in the dawn of the democratic 90-00-ies to a sharp decrease in the tone of the hard worker. This has influenced and still affects the physical component of the potential proxy. At their expense, urban accelerators of glamor and “swamp” activists ignored the call and advocated for a contract army. And we and our grandchildren will serve.
  20. Old warrior
    Old warrior 8 May 2013 12: 58 New
    +1
    I always wondered: how can a warrior defend his homeland if he cannot defend himself?
    1. iliq
      iliq 8 May 2013 13: 20 New
      +2
      the counter question is whether the Homeland protects the one who cannot defend himself? or are you a superman and practice one-to-three every day?
  21. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 8 May 2013 15: 29 New
    0
    The use of mobile phones in the army today is widely discussed in Russian society. Many believe that this relief for the soldiers is superfluous, but the soldiers themselves, who serve on conscription today, do not think so. The phone allows the soldier to be in touch with the house at virtually any time off from service, which also makes it easier to carry out military service
    And the author has never tried to conduct classes, for example, according to drill, with the personnel of soldiers with mobile phones. When almost every minute the phone rings and distracts the leader. It comes to the point that you take the phone from the fighter, he accidentally drops out of his hands and falls on the parade ground, then again, by accident, you step on him three or four times. Only after this, the calls stop. In the morning, the officer conducts classes with the fighters, and in the evening all this can be seen on YouTube.
    I am not against mobile phones - a thing is necessary for a fighter, but it reaches the point of absurdity.
    1. iliq
      iliq 8 May 2013 15: 32 New
      0
      Quote: VohaAhov
      And the author has never tried to conduct classes, for example, according to drill, with the personnel of soldiers with mobile phones.

      if you don’t have enough brains, we use the experience of senior comrades: phones are collected in the locker room and issued only for the weekend.

      Quote: VohaAhov
      I am not against mobile phones - a thing is necessary for a fighter, but it reaches the point of absurdity.

      "officer" is not able to solve such a trifle?
  22. elmir15
    elmir15 8 May 2013 16: 13 New
    +3
    My opinion is that the service life of 1 year is not enough! for such a short period of time it is impossible to prepare a normal specialist soldier. Contractors can’t fill this gap because they need a lot, and the state doesn’t have much money.
    1. yurta2013
      yurta2013 8 May 2013 18: 52 New
      0
      One year is not enough only while maintaining the long-standing practice of combat training in our army, when a soldier performs the vast majority of his service with anything but combat training. With a normal training system, one year is enough.
  23. darksoul
    darksoul 8 May 2013 17: 31 New
    0
    The logic of thinking needs to be changed, but video surveillance ..... a DVR with hdd without any backup means, as usual, is done cheaply ... you can cut it or clean it
    1. yurta2013
      yurta2013 8 May 2013 18: 50 New
      0
      I wonder how you are going to change the logic of thinking of all military personnel. To do this, you must first introduce in our schools the study of logic itself, about which even students today have a vague idea.
    2. TSOOBER
      TSOOBER 9 May 2013 02: 21 New
      0
      And who is stopping the system engineers (DVRs) from sealing and checking the security of the seals (seal from the unit commander) upon delivery of the order! The seal is broken and all emergency! And the administrator code is only from the unit commander and the civil service specialist!
  24. cyclist
    cyclist 9 May 2013 09: 51 New
    0
    it is necessary to prepare for military service, so that well-trained athletically trained fighters go to the army, sport tempers character! I would add hand-to-hand combat exercises on my own, so that the conscript could stand up for himself, but apparently it’s easier to put the cameras on the manual, the next step is to introduce a chip under the skin of each laughing