Military Review

Joint Ukrainian-Russian naval construction: truth and fiction

96
Rocket cruiser "Ukraine" at the wall of the plant "Name of the Communist 61" in Nikolaev. 2008 year



In the Russian and Ukrainian press, materials have repeatedly appeared that improve between then and then deteriorate relations. Similarly, the state of joint projects is changing. Sometimes a very paradoxical picture of potential areas of cooperation between Russia and Ukraine can be observed in the media. In particular, we are talking about cooperation in the construction and modernization of naval equipment. We bring to your attention some projects that, according to print publications, are currently the most promising in this area.

One of the most famous joint projects is, perhaps, the transfer to Russia of the Ukraine 11641 missile cruiser, project 2013. Negotiations on the possibility of transferring the vessel have been ongoing for quite some time, and only in April of this year the parties managed to reach framework agreements. According to information received by the press, the final agreement is expected to be signed in the summer of XNUMX, during the official visit of the Russian Minister of War S. Shoigu to Ukraine. Preliminary negotiations were held between representatives of the naval fleet Russia, USC, the naval forces of Ukraine, as well as the leadership of the state enterprise Shipbuilding Plant named after 61 Kommunar at the end of March this year. The main achievement of the negotiations can be considered an agreement on the cost of the cruiser - it was estimated at an amount equal to 25 million dollars. However, no objections have been received from the Russian side. An agreement was also reached regarding payments: they will be carried out by the supply of spare parts for Soviet-era equipment, which is still in service with the Ukrainian army.

In addition, Russia has undertaken to make orders for Ukrainian enterprises to carry out part of the work to complete the construction of the vessel. This, in particular, is the state enterprise Zorya Mashproekt, which must supply a spare parts kit for turbines of the main course.

Not without misunderstandings. Despite the fact that the Ukrainian side tried to fix the ship’s readiness at the 90 percent level, the Russian specialists who inspected the cruiser (these are representatives of the Zvezdochka CS and Severnaya Verf OJSC) concluded that in reality the ship’s readiness rate was not more than 67 percent. And it is this figure that was recorded in the final documents.

At the moment, it is planned to tow the cruiser to Severodvinsk for troubleshooting (that is, to identify possible ship defects and assess its suitability). According to the results of this analysis, a decision will be made on the possibility of its completion or conversion into a special purpose ship.

The necessary draft agreement is expected to be ready by the end of this year. Moreover, the navy has even proposed names for the cruiser, under which they will become part of the Russian fleet, Izmail and Poltava. However, it is not excluded that Ukraine can become the main source of spare parts for those cruisers of the same type currently operating as part of the fleet.

Recall, the missile cruiser under the name "Ukraine" was laid in 1984 year. True, then he had a different name - “Admiral of the Navy Lobov”. In 1996, its construction was discontinued due to lack of funding. Later, attempts were made to resume construction, but in 2001, they were completely abandoned. And only a few years ago, the completion of the vessel was resumed.

There is no certainty in the negotiations about the possibility of completing the construction of the floating technical base of the 2020 project at the Black Sea Shipyard for the Russian Navy. According to Ukrainian sources, the Russian side considers it possible to complete the construction of the base in the Ukrainian enterprise. It is known that in the near future a large number of old technical bases are planned to be written off and disposed of in the Russian army, therefore the introduction of a new floating base will make it possible to significantly increase the capabilities of the Russian fleet.

Recall that the floating technical base of the 2020 project at the Black Sea Shipyard began to be built in 1990 year. Its main purpose was to recharge nuclear reactors of nuclear submarines. When the base was launched, all work at the facility was stopped due to lack of funding, and later it was decided to freeze it.

About the possible resumption of construction of bases was discussed a few years ago. According to the existing information, the state of the floating base was checked by representatives of a special commission, which included employees of the design bureau - the designer. Then the state of the base was found to be quite satisfactory.

In addition to this project, the Ukrainian side hopes that the Russian fleet will show interest in ordering a modernized Corvette of the 58250 project from Ukrainian shipbuilding enterprises. It is noteworthy that an indirect confirmation of this interest is the working visit of representatives of the Russian industrial and trade department to the Black Sea Shipyard in the current year in order to familiarize with the production capacity of the enterprise. In the framework of the visit, the flow line-point line of the enterprise, outbuilding embankments, inclined slipways and floating dock were provided for familiarization. In addition, information was provided on current ship repair and shipbuilding projects at the plant. Currently, the enterprise, according to the director of the ChSZ V. Kalashnikov, is engaged in repairing the ships of the Ukrainian naval forces. In addition, it is ready to consider proposals on the possibility of cooperation on the modernization of the Russian fleet.

Recall that the corvettes of the 58250 project were designed by Ukrainian designers for the needs of the Ukrainian fleet. Initially it was planned to build 10 vessels of this class, but the lack of funding was the reason that the management was limited to only four corvettes. Previously, the cost of one such vessel will be about 250 million euros, which is lower than the cost of similar European-made vessels. At the same time, there is a possibility that Russia may opt for corvettes of the same class, but with a much lower cost. In particular, we are talking about the British project “Carif” (approximate cost - 252 million dollars), Turkish corvette “MILGEM” (cost - 260 million dollars), German “MEKO A-100” (300 million dollars). In addition, Russia has its own frigates, the cost of which is much lower, but at the same time they are in no way inferior to the Ukrainian ships in terms of their technical characteristics. It is not only about the frigates of the project 20380 (export version - "Tiger"), but also the project 1135.6, whose ships are going for the naval forces of India.

Despite this, the Ukrainian side does not lose hope for a positive result. And in connection with the construction of the corvette, as well as the fact that the question regarding the composition of its weapons is still open, Ukrainians hoped to co-produce with the Russian enterprises an analogue of the anti-ship missile X-35, but the proposal did not interest the Russian side.

The Ukrainian military leadership intends to retain submarine forces in its naval forces, and therefore does not exclude the possibility of ordering new diesel submarines in Russia. In addition, the possibility of cooperation in terms of joint use of diesel submarines "Alrosa" project 877В is not ruled out as new submarines of the project 06363 come to the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

By the way, история The creation of the submarines of the 877 project began as early as the 70s of the last century, when the development of a new generation of diesel-electric submarines began, which were designed to conduct operations against submarines and surface ships, conduct reconnaissance operations and minefields. Under this project, the order was built 50 submarines, given the experimental and export options. As for the Alrosa boat itself, it was laid in May 1988 of the year at the Krasnoye Sormovo enterprise in Nizhny Novgorod. It was launched in the 1989 year, and got its name only in 2004 year in honor of the joint stock company that took patronage over it.

And, finally, cooperation in the field of the modernization of torpedoes SET-65, known as the “260 product”, is not excluded. A large number of them are in the warehouses of the Ukrainian Navy. The history of their creation began in the 1960 year, they are in service with the 1965 year.

It should be noted that Ukrainian enterprises also carry out repairs, upgrades and life extension systems and mine-torpedo devices weapons in the interests of the Russian fleet. In particular, we are talking about the enterprise of JSC Petrovsky KZA JSC, which for the period of 2012-2013 from Russian customers received about 80 percent of the total financing of contracts at the enterprise. This company has now finished exploring possible areas of modernization of the control systems for torpedoes SET-65, in particular, homing systems, gyro trim-roll sensors, the introduction of a shallow-water pressure sensor and outboard pressure switch from a deep-water sensor to a shallow-water sensor.

How successful the cooperation on these projects will be depends equally on both the Ukrainian and the Russian side. There is nothing wrong with the joint implementation of these projects, but there is a threat that this cooperation may once again become one of the main tools in the development of political relations between Ukraine and Russia ...

Materials used:
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/496414.html?thread=15536158
http://vz.ru/news/2013/4/1/626848.html
http://newsreaders.ru/showthread.php?t=2754
http://pavlonews.info/news/categ_33/161372.html
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  1. edge
    edge 7 May 2013 06: 46 New
    15
    Well, yes, to transfer the latest technology to the Navy, hoh ... am, and they will sell it to the Chinas, as was the case with military swp.
    1. krokodil25
      krokodil25 7 May 2013 08: 52 New
      0
      It seems like they used to say that together you can build aircraft carriers?
      1. reserve
        reserve 7 May 2013 09: 01 New
        -26
        Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.
        1. avt
          avt 7 May 2013 10: 08 New
          10
          Quote: rezerv
          Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.

          Avon how! The factory collapsed so that an independent aircraft carrier did not appear and was not allowed to complete the circle, Ukraine laughing Now it’s clear why an invisible independent corvette will not be built, not only because they do not see it and therefore do not know what and where to weld, but also because of the evil machinations of the evil-minded Muscovites laughing . To the same stolen the last circle, the hope and bastion of an independent shipbuilding.
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          The Black Sea shipyard is ditched. The Lenin Forge has gone into oblivion

          Well, this is a bitter, objective reality. To overcome it, serious efforts and investment are needed both in equipment and in people. And seriously, in light of the development of the political situation in Ukraine, do you think this is real? I think no .
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 7 May 2013 15: 07 New
            +3
            Quote: avt
            Now it’s clear why an invisible independent corvette will not be built, not only because they do not see it and therefore do not know what and where to weld, but also because of the evil machinations of the evil-minded Muscovites

            But there is stealth aviation fellow
          2. Papakiko
            Papakiko 7 May 2013 15: 45 New
            +4
            Some kind of “Polovtsian dances” around the “Grin of Communism” (project 11641).
            That am, not am.
            The vessel is needed but condition for 20 years of standing ?????????????
            There are more questions than answers.
        2. T-100
          T-100 7 May 2013 17: 35 New
          +3
          After the collapse of the USSR, you had the most powerful and modern army located in those days in fourth place and numbering 700000 thousand soldiers and officers. You possessed nuclear weapons of mine and mobile-based. You had the most advanced industry and where is it all, and ??? Now only gas knows how to steal, but the whole of modern Ukraine produces zukerki)))
        3. T-100
          T-100 7 May 2013 17: 37 New
          0
          After the collapse of the USSR, you had the most powerful and modern army located in those days in fourth place and numbering 700000 thousand soldiers and officers. You possessed nuclear weapons of mine and mobile-based. You had the most advanced industry and where is it all, and ??? Now only gas knows how to steal, but the whole of modern Ukraine produces zukerki)))
        4. T-100
          T-100 7 May 2013 17: 38 New
          -2
          reserve
          Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.

          After the collapse of the USSR, you had the most powerful and modern army located in those days in fourth place and numbering 700000 thousand soldiers and officers. You possessed nuclear weapons of mine and mobile-based. You had the most advanced industry and where is it all, and ??? Now only gas knows how to steal, but the whole of modern Ukraine produces zukerki)))
          1. Dub4ik
            Dub4ik 8 May 2013 18: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: T-100
            only gas can steal

            not tired of sticking it everywhere, no?
        5. The comment was deleted.
        6. DAOSS
          DAOSS 8 May 2013 23: 17 New
          0
          In vain the man was bombarded! He is telling the truth!
          As previously reported, billionaire Vadim Novinsky, who recently renounced Russian citizenship in favor of Ukrainian, intends to run for the Verkhovna Rada in the majority district in Sevastopol.
          In fact, ChSZ belongs to Novitsky, who is now promoting Yanukovych to the deputies from Sevastopol:
          "Novinsky’s Smart Holding in Sevastopol owns the Balaklava Mining Department, which the owner intends to close and build the Balaklava Green resort in its place. We’ll add that today the Nikolaev Shipbuilding Plant Okean is part of the Smart Holding group, owned by Vadim Novinsky. Among Novinsky’s assets are PJSC “Kherson Shipbuilding Plant” and the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant. As you know, 90,25% of the shares of ChSZ belongs to PJSC Kherson Shipbuilding Plant. "
          As for the project 58250, the so-called Ukrainian corvette, everything is fine with it and the device is promising, but its sales were not really laid down at ChSZ yet, the loot was allocated 3 years ago, but it “loot” somehow quickly ended. )) Where could it come no one knows?

          As for the cruiser "Ukraine", everything is also pitiful, this topic has already been discussed on the pages of topwar.ru and I promised to post fresh photos of it, but I forgot.
          Tomorrow I’ll be at the parade, I’ll definitely go for a walk to the factory, take a picture and lay out.
          1. The comment was deleted.
  2. mark1
    mark1 7 May 2013 07: 48 New
    +2
    It is necessary to work with Ukraine very carefully. bought a cruiser, put it on the move with the help of forces and drive it for revision to Severodvinsk on its own (there is still an option with St. Petersburg). And that’s all, these joint ventures on positions that are not developed in Ukraine are a very delicate matter, as with China. Threw, throw and will throw.
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 7 May 2013 09: 10 New
      30
      Will you list all Ukrainian shipyards and their capabilities? If they fought less with each other, you would not need the French Mistral. According to the cruiser, you are so rich that you decided to restore the 30-year-old “retro” and, after many years of restoration work, put it on the wall of the museum of the Navy. We must go forward ahead of time. Embed modern designs in metal. Their TARKs with tremendous autonomy, rust at the berths in anticipation of repairs, the fuel fighter pulled on a retro.
      The Black Sea shipyard is ditched. The Lenin smithy went into oblivion. Dumb-headed rulers are not eternal, gangster-oligarcho are mortal, and the situation in the world is not in favor of Christians. A shaft of Arab-Africans is heading for Europe, crushing everything for itself. The "friendly" former republics and their "friends" of the Islamists are upon us. It's time to be more attentive to each other. Joint projects, joint production, this is joint security. Where are we going? We’ll be together anyway.
      1. mark1
        mark1 7 May 2013 09: 30 New
        +9
        Dear Captain Vrungel! As I agree with you. Of course, our countries must stop fighting, rally. and stand hand in hand against the "shaft of the Arab-Africans" in Europe, build and live together ... But you need to arrange the relationship somehow, even when you get married - a marriage certificate is issued, and now the marriage contract is being signed ... Here since that.
        And the 30-year-old “retro” will perfectly fit into the Northern Fleet or Pacific Fleet. its characteristics after modernization will be close to the characteristics of promising destroyers, which we oh wait for how long.
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 7 May 2013 09: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: mark1
          because its characteristics after modernization will be close to the characteristics of promising destroyers

          It is an amazing achievement when the characteristics of the missile cruiser will be "close" to the characteristics of the destroyers, and even invest in it as five destroyers and it will be ready in 10 years.
          1. mark1
            mark1 7 May 2013 10: 03 New
            +3
            Well, do not cling to the terms - a cruiser is not a cruiser. The last real cruisers, this is pr. 68 and to some extent 1144, because there is structural protection on them (on pr. 68 to a greater extent), all the other so-called missile cruisers derive their ancestry from the destroyers and are essentially ships of the "one attack" (this also applies to the Tikondergas since It’s the same with "Spruence") If you read TTZ for promising destroyers, then parameters such as displacement, strike capabilities and air defense missile defense capabilities are quite close to the existing project 1164. So a cruiser or destroyer classification is very arbitrary. As for the terms of modernization, everything can be ruined, but if you accept that all the same, the readiness is 90-95% and not 67, and if you do not ask the absolutely stupid idea to replace everything at the root, then modernization can take from 3 to 5 years. Considering. that destroyers are supposed to be built after the 16th year - this is normal
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 7 May 2013 10: 31 New
              +5
              Quote: mark1
              but if you accept that all the same, the readiness is 90-95% and not 67

              If you have ever seen ships in storage, then looking at the ship in the photo the figure even in 70% seems very optimistic. The point is not even how much he WAS ready, but that of this is in working condition NOW.
              Quote: mark1
              if you don’t get the absolutely stupid idea to replace everything in the bud, then modernization can take from 3 to 5 years.

              The ship has been standing at the wall for 17 years, what is on it, if it has not deteriorated, is out of date. Therefore, the idea of ​​replacing everything is not "absolutely stupid", but necessary. request
              1. mark1
                mark1 7 May 2013 14: 12 New
                +1
                Dear Vladimir, I think that we are engaged in fortune-telling on coffee grounds - such a degree of readiness, such a degree of readiness ... I unfortunately do not know anything about the true state of "Ukraine" (I think that you too), I’m guessing set out following an optimistic scenario based on the fact that the ship was preparing to be included in the Ukrainian Navy, then it was put up for sale and maintained in a "salable" form because the intended buyers were not only us but also China. What I could steal during factory storage, I think is known only to God, the commission and local workers. Since ours, all the same, clung to him, which means that probably the game is worth the candle. The equipment is being completely modernized, it’s not necessary to change everything, so all the same, the “stupid idea” can only be changed according to the range of weapons - switching to “Caliber” - “Onyx” (modernization on the S-300. The main thing is to throw the drums out). But this is already out of mine competencies, let specialists think.
        2. knn54
          knn54 7 May 2013 10: 40 New
          +3
          1. Captain Vrungel: It's time to be more attentive to each other.
          More to such conclusions.
          I repeat, but the West is even afraid of cooperation between our defense industry, and not only in the field of shipbuilding. There will be money, markets, but there will always be "heads"!
          2.mark1: ... after modernization will be close to the characteristics of promising destroyers,
          There will be a decent frigate (according to the pre-war classification, the leader of the destroyers), a multi-purpose warship.
          PS If Ukraine joins the EU (not to mention NATO), then our defense industry is FULL KERDYK-the West does not need competitors ...
          1. petry4io
            petry4io 13 May 2013 09: 42 New
            0
            Yes, the development of the military-industrial complex for the enemy of death is similar, because then it will not be possible to impose its tentacles on the country.
        3. The comment was deleted.
  3. svp67
    svp67 7 May 2013 08: 08 New
    +4
    An agreement was also reached regarding payments: they will be carried out by the supply of spare parts for Soviet-era equipment, which is still in service with the Ukrainian army
    - that once again crosses out all the brave statements of the representatives of Ukraine that they have established the release of "everything" at their enterprises. It’s possible to establish something, it’s not quality, the quantity of manufactured products that does not quite correspond to the required level
    1. Kars
      Kars 7 May 2013 09: 58 New
      +2
      Negotiations on the possibility of transferring the ship have been going on for quite some time, and only in April of this year the parties managed to reach framework agreements. According to information received by the press, the final agreement is expected to be signed in the summer of 2013, during the official visit of the Russian Minister of War S. Shoigu to Ukraine.

      By the way, this is not true.

      As for the spare parts
      Quote: svp67
      that they launched the release of “everything” at their enterprises.

      no need to exaggerate, all of us, in principle, have no economic justification for arranging production.
      1. Kars
        Kars 7 May 2013 10: 38 New
        +8
        By the way - something at VO so preoccupied with what is happening in Ukraine that they missed sending a hovercraft built to China.
        1. Scythian 35
          Scythian 35 7 May 2013 22: 51 New
          +1
          Kars
          Good news, great toy. Ten of these things and a team on a nearby bank.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 7 May 2013 22: 55 New
            0
            What is good here? For the sake of momentary profit, you lost your income?
            1. Kars
              Kars 7 May 2013 22: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              For the sake of momentary profit, you lost your income?

              Why did you decide this?
              Something the French were also going to sell the Mistral to the Russian Federation. Two at home, two in the Russian Federation.
              And the market for such funds is small, and everyone wants not only hardware but also technology))
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 7 May 2013 23: 10 New
                0
                Do you think that the Chinese, like the Greeks, will manage four things? Or, walk like walk, eight? Twenty pieces are definitely riveted.
                Here is your first lost gain. The Russian side will never place your order for new ships — the second.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 7 May 2013 23: 33 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  Here is your first lost gain.

                  Quote: Spade
                  Or, walk like walk, eight? Twenty pieces are definitely riveted.

                  But you joker))) for starters, without technology transfer, they could have bought nothing at all, and the plant together with the technology would have successfully died, the aphids were re-profiled.

                  And the chances that Ukraine would have made everything 20 less than ZERO. And Ukraine will do so for these twenty components, not all but a fairly large percentage.
                  Quote: Spade
                  The Russian side will never place your order for new ships — the second.
                  So what? This is, in principle, and so on the verge of fantasy. And even this is not a fact.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 7 May 2013 23: 44 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Kars
                    and the plant together with stekhnologii would successfully die, aphids repurposed.

                    And he will die successfully already. I know the people who skated there specialists for Russian enterprises to woo. And very successfully.


                    Quote: Kars
                    So what? This is, in principle, and so on the verge of fantasy. And even this is not a fact.

                    Now for sure. Rather, the Finns, Poles or Koreans will turn.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 7 May 2013 23: 47 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Spade
                      And he will die successfully

                      but not yesterday, as it could be.
                      Quote: Spade
                      for Russian enterprises

                      everyone is looking for better. We have no war, so let them go if they want.
                      Quote: Spade
                      Now for sure. Rather, the Finns, Poles or Koreans will turn.

                      You can also go to the French. And certainty is very important. And then the snot is smeared as in AN 70
          2. Kars
            Kars 7 May 2013 22: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: Scythian 35
            Good news, plush toy

            For China))) and fear for Taiwan
            1. Scythian 35
              Scythian 35 7 May 2013 23: 21 New
              0
              Quote: Kars
              China))) and fear for Taiwan

              I think China has not grown up to a major landing operation, maybe in ten years, provided that it does not slow down the rate of buildup of military potential. After all, the landing operation, I think, is the most difficult type of attack !!! Taiwan, too, does not bast, if the Taiwanese fight, then half of the PLA will float in the South China Sea.
          3. petry4io
            petry4io 13 May 2013 09: 44 New
            0
            Better to let them do it in high quality, but they will have time to rivet.
  4. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 7 May 2013 08: 14 New
    +6
    In Ukrainian shipyards, it is quite possible to build support vessels for the Navy, there is nothing unique in them, and load your shipyards with warships. Of course, it is possible to pick up Ukraine for 25 million RKR, but it, in essence, will have to be rebuilt.
    1. mark1
      mark1 7 May 2013 09: 02 New
      +5
      I would not rush. something to order from Ukraine. Any orders open a source of financing for other shipbuilding programs, i.e. we can cultivate a fairly powerful competitor with our own hands. The potential capabilities of the Nikolaev Z-da are still very high, if they were good friends - another thing, and so ...
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 7 May 2013 09: 52 New
        0
        Quote: mark1
        we can cultivate a fairly powerful competitor with our own hands.

        As a bunch of KB-factory - I doubt it. And without this, it’s difficult to build anything modern and competitive. But to support shipbuilding dynasties of factory workers would be a good thing. Many of them are now working at Russian enterprises in the shipbuilding industry. and PM-12, built at the very beginning of the 90s in Nikolaev (reloading nuclear submarine active zones) is also aging
        1. mark1
          mark1 7 May 2013 10: 16 New
          +7
          Quote: Misantrop
          But to support shipbuilding dynasties of factory workers would be a good thing.

          You are welcome to our factories, with specialists a terrible shortage. I think they will carry on hands. And supporting dynasties in Ukraine is the task of the Ukrainian government.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 7 May 2013 14: 07 New
            +1
            Quote: mark1
            You are welcome to our factories, with specialists a terrible shortage.

            And yours, where is it? It’s already a little too late for me myself, but my cousin (he is ten years younger) regularly travels, now he has begun to take his son with him. At the Diamond in St. Petersburg. He is a system hydraulist, a ship picker. Factory "Sea" in Primorsky. There is little work at the factory itself, so almost the entire village rides. Especially those who began to work in the specialty under the USSR, as he
  5. pensioner
    pensioner 7 May 2013 08: 26 New
    0
    “Shipyard named after 61 Communards”

    Missile cruiser "Ukraine" at the wall of the plant "Name 61 Commissioner" in Nikolaev. 2008 year



    So communards or commissars?
    1. reserve
      reserve 7 May 2013 09: 08 New
      -5
      Plant 61 Communards. Although among the 61 executed detainees for violation of the rule of law of the Communards there were only a few people. When the “whites” entered the city, they immediately put things in order. Light came in and trams began to walk. When the "Reds" entered the city, devastation immediately began. Alas and ah. . .
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 7 May 2013 09: 37 New
        +7
        Quote: rezerv
        When the "Reds" entered the city, devastation immediately began. Alas and ah. . .


        And when mazepants with yellow-blue flags of the Austrian province of Lower Austria entered the city, all that the “red” built and the ships and the light and trams disappeared were all Turkish shalvars and an oselédetz-like sperm flagellum on the head of the Svidomites.
        1. reserve
          reserve 7 May 2013 10: 08 New
          -7
          In vain do you expire with bile, Hudo. In Ukraine over the past 20 years there was no Ukrainian government. At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian. Yushchenko does not matter. This is generally some ugly mockery of the country.
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 7 May 2013 10: 28 New
            10
            Quote: rezerv
            In Ukraine over the past 20 years there was no Ukrainian government.

            I myself live in Ukraine and I know by hearsay that the government was neither Ukrainian nor any at all.

            Quote: rezerv
            This is generally some ugly mockery of the country.


            Yes, you are right, the very existence of the State Department cannibalistic project "Ukraine" is a mockery of the population living there and the very concept of "country"
          2. vadson
            vadson 7 May 2013 13: 05 New
            +3
            Quote: rezerv
            In vain do you expire with bile, Hudo. In Ukraine over the past 20 years there was no Ukrainian government. At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian. Yushchenko does not matter. This is generally some ugly mockery of the country.

            pro-Soviet, pro-Russian? nude nude ... do you think it is better in the EU?
            look at the Baltic states
            1. petry4io
              petry4io 13 May 2013 09: 43 New
              0
              In her bacon, they are anointed with them.)
          3. Old_kapitan
            Old_kapitan 7 May 2013 14: 28 New
            +8
            At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian.

            Have you confused Ukraine with Belarus for an hour? This is a pro-Russian and with small deviations pro-Russian government. I would like this with us. And then: he voted for Yushchenko - he got into such a thing that he is ashamed to this day, he voted for Yanukovych - he is still ashamed. "Where to go to the poor peasant?" ....
            1. saturn.mmm
              saturn.mmm 7 May 2013 23: 03 New
              0
              Quote: Old_Kapitan
              Have you confused Ukraine with Belarus for an hour?

              Good evening. You look more closely under the feet in relation to the leaders.
          4. MG42
            MG42 7 May 2013 16: 15 New
            +5
            Quote: rezerv
            In Ukraine over the past 20 years there was no Ukrainian government. At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian. Yushchenko does not matter

            Yushchenko = six America, the wife worked in the US State Department, here is a real Svidomo cahol laughing
          5. Misantrop
            Misantrop 7 May 2013 17: 46 New
            +2
            Quote: rezerv
            At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian.

            Is it possible by name? Which of the presidents was pro-Russian, maybe Kuchma? Or Kravchuk ?. If Yushchenko "does not count", then Yanukovych remains. Awesome pro-Russian leader laughing Maybe then among the prime ministers we find this? Khrenushki, the same menagerie. And if all this scum is NOT PROUKRAINIAN, then a pro-Ukrainian can only be found in the fool (on the embroidered shirts). Is Farion sufficiently pro-Ukrainian for you? And Tyagnibok? Or (when they are liquidated too, having seized power), you will also begin to shout that they are “feeding the CPSU”
            1. avt
              avt 7 May 2013 18: 16 New
              +1
              Quote: Misantrop
              Is it possible by name? Which of the presidents was pro-Russian, maybe Kuchma? Or Kravchuk ?. If Yushchenko "does not count", then Yanukovych remains. Awesome pro-Russian leader

              Trying in vain, this is not treated. So whom do you want to put - they will nevertheless demand to remove the steering wheel. laughing Malicious, Moscow.
  6. Sheva777
    Sheva777 7 May 2013 09: 08 New
    +9
    Yes, they will never agree, but it’s a pity 30 years ago such ships were built during the union!
  7. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 7 May 2013 09: 20 New
    +8
    Not everything is so bad in (or) Ukraine. The guys make great gas turbine engines. Almost all of our Navy goes to them and almost all helicopters fly. Ukrainian tank "Oplot" at the level of world standards (including the T-90). We need to look for ways of interaction, and not curse over trifles with each other.
    1. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 7 May 2013 16: 10 New
      +2
      No one has been cursing for a long time. Work in progress, negotiate, compete, etc. Or do you think a pack of morons in this forum is an indicator of relationships?
  8. gispanec
    gispanec 7 May 2013 09: 23 New
    0
    The missile cruiser must be taken! Ukrainian corvettes are not needed! I agree that you can (NEED) to order support vessels at Ukrainian shipyards. We are waiting for the decision of Shoigu in the RK "Ukraine" !!
  9. Kars
    Kars 7 May 2013 09: 53 New
    0
    о there is a threat that this cooperation may once again become one of the main tools in the development of political relations between Ukraine and Russia ...
    In the hands of the Russian Federation naturally.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 May 2013 17: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Kars
      In the hands of the Russian Federation naturally.

      Well, yes, they will start blackmailing, demanding "they write gas, and oil - for free" laughing
      1. Kars
        Kars 7 May 2013 18: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: Misantrop
        Well, yes, they’ll start blackmailing me,

        they will begin. Do not hesitate. Or can it be that Ukrainian enterprises refuse orders? Can you give an example when ours refused Russian flavors? Zorya makes a customs declaration for Russian frigates, and that because of politics or NATO does not sabotage))
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 7 May 2013 20: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          can you give an example when our abandoned Russian zakah?

          Easy. SAME factory and epic with an aircraft carrier. Thus, who then shoved China for nonsense
          1. Kars
            Kars 7 May 2013 20: 16 New
            +2
            Quote: Misantrop
            Easy. SAME factory and epic with an aircraft carrier

            Well, as usual, you and laughed.
            Examine the material in more detail then come.
            The Russian Federation refused to complete it as unnecessary. And Ukraine kept it at the shipyard for its money for more than one year)))
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 7 May 2013 20: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: Kars
              The Russian Federation refused its completion as unnecessary
              Maybe stop lying already? And being rude at the same time. All links go to Vinnik (who made out his sale). Naturally, now he will tell anything wink
              They did not agree with the Russian Federation in price and ... for one more, rather interesting, condition. Now this is only in some places the beginning is occasionally mentioned:
              In 1998, the National Agency for Reconstruction and European Integration (at that time in Ukraine) announced a tender for the sale of Varyag, the main condition being the buyer's obligation do not use the ship for military purposes.
              http://economics.unian.net/rus/news/141200-pervyiy-avianosets-kitaya-ukraina-syi

              grala-v-kazino.html
              Funny clarification, isn't it? And why, in that case, the RF would be needed, can you tell me? And China bought it ... through an offshore, formally bypassing this point
              1. Kars
                Kars 7 May 2013 21: 18 New
                0
                Quote: Misantrop
                Maybe stop lying already? And being rude at the same time.

                Maybe it really hurts my eyes))))
                Quote: Misantrop
                In 1998 year

                Quote: Misantrop
                Do not use the ship for military purposes.

                Are you aware that before 1998 it was -1991,1992,1993,1994))))
                Quote: Misantrop
                Funny clarification, isn't it? And why, in that case, the RF would be needed, can you tell me?

                Something China was able to circumvent this problem, but EreFniki could not))))))
                TU-160 when stopped braking redeem honored)))


                If so deeply off topic - find Andrei from Chelyabinsk, he gave excellent links on the topic)))
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 7 May 2013 21: 29 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kars
                  find Andrei from Chelyabinsk, he gave excellent links on the topic)))
                  ALL of these links appeared much later event discussed. And all this was discussed THEN in the media quite widely and in detail. And since I was in the Russian Federation until the middle of '93, I had the opportunity to compare information, so to speak, from different angles. And discuss it with people who were really “in the subject”. Including with V. Bezkorovayny (thereby serving as commander of the Ukrainian fleet, they served together). And, interestingly, the information that went THEN, with the one that draw NOW, different very substantially. Including with regards to the amount for completion that the plant wanted to slop from the Russian Federation. I don’t remember the number now, but it significantly exceeded that which China paid. Then a lot of gossip about this.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 7 May 2013 22: 09 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    And, interestingly, the information that went THEN, with the one that is drawn NOW, differs quite significantly. Including with regards to the amount for completion that the plant wanted to slop from the Russian Federation. I don’t remember the number now, but it significantly exceeded that which China paid. Then there was still a lot of gossip about this.


                    Well, words, words, but at least one hint that the Russian Federation from 1992-98 turned to Ukraine with a proposal to complete the aircraft carrier at its own expense, and you did not bring it to yourself. And we are just discussing incidents when Ukrainian plants refused Russian contracts .
                    And by the way, it was precisely during this period that the Russian Federation sold its aircraft-carrying cruisers to China, Kiev and Minsk, do not you find it interesting?

                    As for the price and the tender. Of course, I understand that you are no longer young and think in old-fashioned templates, but didn’t you understand that this tender was played for the United States? That the case was bought not by China, but by a private owner from Macau, but also Turkey for a year didn’t let him through the straits? And the sum of 20 million is the tip of the iceberg.

                    But still waiting, maybe you can
                    Quote: Kars
                    can you give an example when ours abandoned the Russian flavors? Zorya does the gas turbine engine for the Russian frigates, and that because of politics or NATO does not sabotage))
                    1. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 7 May 2013 22: 21 New
                      0
                      Quote: Kars
                      ours refused Russian zakahs?

                      An example that I know EXACTLY about (not from the media, as it was one of the recipients). Simferopol, factory "Fiolent". Sensors SKPU, DBKPT, PDM hydrogen afterburning furnace, spare parts for MRK-50 station, spare parts for Omnibus BIUS and even before the hell of which is on the list. Recipients - 667 BDR and BDRM ships of the SF and Pacific Fleet project. Things are not cheap, the order is permanent, guaranteed, very large in volume. Instead, it is curtailing production and reorienting balances to the production of hand-held power tools in a low-cost market segment. By the way, the plant’s management itself howled and swore, trying to keep the order from the fleet. ORDER FROM TOP

                      By the way, about the sale of Tu-160 and Tu-95. I know the people who took part in the reception of these aircraft. But there were no planes. TOTALLY looted. Up to the point that all the electric harnesses (not to mention the engines and devices) had to be laid and installed AGAIN.
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 7 May 2013 22: 40 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        By the way, the management of the plant itself howled and swore, trying to keep the order from the fleet. ORDER FROM TOP


                        Well, of course, this is your word, but there is no exposure to outsiders or resources?



                        Quote: Misantrop
                        only planes didn’t turn out. TOTALLY looted. Up to the point that all the electric harnesses (not to mention the engines and devices) had to be laid and installed AGAIN


                        How did they fly to Engels from Poltava on their own? Well, I would ask VAF, otherwise I’m too lazy to look for me where he (and he is a pilot) told another version.
                        And if there weren’t enough spare parts and spare parts on the plane, then what to do with the tragedy is natural, to remove everything that can be done before the transfer.

                        purely for fun
                      2. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 7 May 2013 23: 09 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        and third-party exposure
                        Ask V. Bezkorovainy, at that time he commanded our flotilla. And I, among other things, for 6 years provided communication between the commanders of the combat units and services of the ship and the supplying plants. And the last 2 years - at the headquarters of the flotilla in the EMC under the direct command of V.N. Panteleeva (now heads the AEU reloading center in Gremikha). I have no connection with them right now, alas
                        How did they fly to Engels from Poltava?
                        DARM then worked well, they took all this with them, and collected it there before the flight
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 7 May 2013 23: 39 New
                        0
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Ask V. Bezkorovayny

                        Customize the telephone? Or where to file an official request? It's not difficult for me, with seals and a legal address.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        combat units and services of the ship and supplying plants.

                        It happens of course. But who was riding for Fiolent at that time? And is the order nowhere documented?
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        DARM then worked well, they took all this with them, and collected it there before the flight

                        If I robbed them, I’ll tell you honestly no one would fly anywhere))) but it still doesn’t mean anything. The Ukrainian Air Force was not going to exploit planes of the strategist. Bomber class, and could not.
                      4. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 8 May 2013 10: 28 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Strategic bomber class airplanes Ukrainian Air Force were not going to exploit, and could not.

                        It is strange that with this approach, this cruiser is still not plundered in the same way as airplanes ... what
                        Quote: Kars
                        But who was riding for Fiolent at that time? And is the order nowhere documented?
                        How do I know? I was not the director of Fiolent at that time ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        Or where to file an official request? It's not difficult for me, with seals and a legal address.
                        I don’t have a phone number or address (it was too difficult to read about it a little higher, I understand), but Yu.V. Timoshenko now lives at a well-known address. So write to her. Take an interest in why ALL export contracts of the More factory were disrupted, and the Chinese took place only when it began to have serious problems. She is an honest person, will answer the truth, will share links to documents laughing The request is serious, even "with legal address and stamp" lol There were at least three contracts, moreover, work on the zero cycle had already begun, the plant management gathered all over the former USSR (its employees went to work), etc.
  • Vtel
    Vtel 7 May 2013 10: 40 New
    +5
    missile cruiser under the name "Ukraine" was laid back in 1984

    It still does not leak, but rather. While Ukraine is flirting with NATO, what joint military enterprises can be talked about, only about ice cream production.
  • vostok1982
    vostok1982 7 May 2013 10: 55 New
    +2
    Well. Nikolaev, like Odessa and Sevastopol, are Russian cities, cities of great glory in the past. And within the framework of the independent, they will never be able not only to develop, but simply reach the level of the 80s. I say this as a person who lived at one time in Nikolaev and did not know by hearsay how much the shipyards and the once-famous Nikolaev Shipbuilding Institute had degraded the entire Union. And all this happened long before a businessman bought something there.
  • Algor73
    Algor73 7 May 2013 11: 06 New
    +5
    Captain Vrungel said correctly, the danger does not come from the West, the danger comes from the south. In all past times, they defended themselves together, so it will be in the future. Well, there will be no Turks or other Asians Slavic ally. Even during the Second World War, some nationalities were taken away from the front, some were not called up. Still, you need to forget mutual insults. The government of Ukraine twitched right and left and calm down. But to be together, you need something to unite. At this stage, this is cooperation in joint projects. A joint ideology is no longer and so far will not be (even through the OUN-UPA). And regarding the transfer of technology by Russia, I doubt it. In Ukraine, and their own are quite developed, there are developments not worse. And this eternal "and we, and you" are tired of the order. Joint projects need to be developed, because this is the key to unification. Maybe the Union will not be reborn, but something similar will happen, the pissing that is coming is common.
    1. itkul
      itkul 7 May 2013 12: 03 New
      -3
      Quote: Algor73
      And this eternal "and we, and you" are tired of the order. Joint projects need to be developed, because this is the key to unification.


      So you’re kind of going to unite with Europe.
      1. vostok1982
        vostok1982 7 May 2013 13: 00 New
        +7
        It does not depend on the people living in Ukraine. As once it did not depend on the Germans - whether Germany would unite. Everything is decided in Moscow and in Washington, so Russia should make every effort to return Ukraine - at least in parts. For example, all my friends and acquaintances would be happy to see the Novorossiysk Republic with the capital in Odessa as part of the Russian Federation. in our south, Ukrainians are a minority, and no one speaks Ukrainian at all. This is Russian land and should return to Russia.
        1. Captain Vrungel
          Captain Vrungel 7 May 2013 19: 01 New
          +4
          Shaw you did bad Odessa. And so continuous intervention. The Jews left, so gushing no one was too lazy. Svidomyty from the west, bandits from the east. Where are the inhabitants of Odessa? As they said in Odessa, where you can meet the native Odessa? Only in the city bath. But they closed the last bath, go to saunas and instead of a basin with water, washcloths and soaps, then wash ourselves with our own, we are not economical Europeans. And generally Odessa remained in Odessa. Nanai beaches, Chinese flea markets, gypsy bazaars, Armenian MAFs, judges, prosecutors and trash brothers, in general, all those burdened with power are called. If you make the capital, what kind of flow of feces into the city will flood. Direct free city will work with Porto Franco. Let everyone in, don't let anyone out. so as not to poison the environment.
    2. shark
      shark 7 May 2013 16: 44 New
      0
      I agree with everything.! well done. he said everything correctly
  • Megatron
    Megatron 7 May 2013 11: 48 New
    +3
    Oddly enough, but Eastern people have always been much closer to Russia both in spirit and in conscience of its Western "partners."
    Westerners always only attacked, and betrayed at every opportunity.

    On do not need a "donor" and "source of spare parts." We need a battle cruiser.

    Glory to the Russian Navy!
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 May 2013 21: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Megatron
      Westerners always only attacked, and betrayed at every opportunity.
      Remember, the motto: “Britain has no permanent allies, it has constant INTERESTS” is not considered to be the height of cynicism there. On the contrary, an example of a pragmatic British approach to business. Is it any wonder then that they constantly betray and substitute?
      1. Kars
        Kars 7 May 2013 22: 19 New
        0
        Russia has two friends, the army and navy.
        Quote: Misantrop
        "Britain has NO permanent allies; it has permanent INTERESTS."

        And they hide it? Maybe others need to be smarter?
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 7 May 2013 13: 01 New
    +2
    I doubt something about the advisability of buying "Ukraine". For so many years, there is probably little left, which does not require a full audit or replacement. And even more so, I doubt the advisability of buying corvettes in Ukraine, especially since we have no worse and cheaper. In general, cooperation in the military sphere with Ukraine can only be established when they come to their senses and stop shoving the country under NATO, which is similar to shoving under the knife.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 May 2013 17: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: stock buildbat
      For so many years, most likely there is little left, which does not require a complete audit or replacement.

      A case with an unworn set and running machines with an undeveloped resource. From materials checked by the Soviet OTK and military acceptance of those years. Even this is already very expensive. And this is ALREADY ready, no need to order and wait several years. Stuffing is not difficult to change
  • RussianRu
    RussianRu 7 May 2013 13: 36 New
    0
    Time will put everything in its place.
    1. edge
      edge 7 May 2013 15: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: Russian
      Time will put everything in its place
      .... of course he will arrange, but more often in the form of monuments, dummies, mummies and other museum exhibits. We must do it now, with our own hands, and not wait for the mythical good guy with a bag full of kalachas.
  • Andrii
    Andrii 7 May 2013 13: 53 New
    +4
    Seven feet under the keel of Ukraine! And thanks God, at least something moves.
  • katran666
    katran666 7 May 2013 14: 18 New
    0
    Still, you need to forget mutual insults. The government of Ukraine twitched right and left and calm down. But to be together, you need something to unite.
    But this is hell, dear! You first decide who you are with, and then we will build together, apoka, twitch like r ... oh in the hole, you will not get a penny on this process in Russia ...
  • Watchman
    Watchman 7 May 2013 15: 10 New
    0
    Corvettes in Russia have their own, and the cruiser to be completed in Nikolaev is possible and necessary, this is the fastest and cheapest way to replenish the Russian Navy with a rank 1 ship.
  • bfg.game
    bfg.game 7 May 2013 16: 16 New
    +3
    I see this scrap metal every day, most likely it’s a matter of prestige to finish it and it’s better not to finish it with us ... But our ChSZ cannot even finish the corvette, not like a cruiser ... Everything is stolen
  • abc_alex
    abc_alex 7 May 2013 16: 23 New
    0
    To finish building? There is no need to finish building, but you need to rebuild. His weapons are outdated irreparably. I doubt that it makes sense and there is an opportunity now to arm this cruiser in the state. Almost all air defense positions have more modern systems. RCC today is completely different. I'm not talking about fire control systems, CIUS and radar.

    I believe that the ship is purchased for parts.
  • bfg.game
    bfg.game 7 May 2013 16: 26 New
    +3
    Quote: vostok1982
    It does not depend on the people living in Ukraine. As once it did not depend on the Germans - whether Germany would unite. Everything is decided in Moscow and in Washington, so Russia should make every effort to return Ukraine - at least in parts. For example, all my friends and acquaintances would be happy to see the Novorossiysk Republic with the capital in Odessa as part of the Russian Federation. in our south, Ukrainians are a minority, and no one speaks Ukrainian at all. This is Russian land and should return to Russia.



    -100% support !!!, the Slav brothers got this SKIDNESS ...
    In Lviv, May 9 - the mourning day is declared day-delirium.
    You may have a totalitarian rule, but Putin at least behaves the Boss. I did not like Russia at the helm of the weak
    We have everything to the very top thieves and residents ..
  • rudolff
    rudolff 7 May 2013 16: 59 New
    +5
    Whatever metal scrap (and at the price of the metal they rated) this cruiser was not, but it must be taken away. Although its completion (reconstruction) and modernization will cost a lot, but there is no alternative. The destroyers are still at the approval stage of the project. Bookmark headache can be expected only after a couple of years. Adoption of the fleet after the 20th year. Nobody is going to build a cruiser at all. Carriers only in erotic fantasies. So, replenishment of the fleet with ships of the ocean zone until 2020 can not wait. The exception is only two (or four?) Mistral, one or two repaired Orlan (?) And one this Ukrainian Atlant (?). This is perhaps all. Nothing shines yet.
    Leaving this cruiser after completion on the SF does not make any sense. He is not needed there. You can return to the Black Sea Fleet or send to the Pacific Fleet.
    The idea of ​​Russian-Ukrainian cooperation in the construction of corvettes is not so bad. Nearly slowly we are building them. We give birth in terms almost like an American aircraft carrier. In Ukraine, it would be possible to order the construction of buildings. And after launching to distill to our shipyards for their completion. Including the promising Novorossiysk one. By the way, the project of the Ukrainian corvette is not so bad and quite interesting. It would only be adapted to Russian requirements and a little finalized.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 May 2013 21: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: rudolff
      And after launching to distill to our shipyards for their completion. Including the promising Novorossiysk one.

      Unless in Novorossiysk. Too differently it will turn out - around Europe. In full readiness mode - nothing else, but pulling an empty “drum” with unassembled survivability control systems is not the greatest pleasure ...
  • firefox090
    firefox090 7 May 2013 17: 27 New
    0
    Quote: rezerv
    Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.

    Data?
  • gych
    gych 7 May 2013 17: 50 New
    +4
    what kind of cooperation can we talk about when there is no eliminatory respect! if the people cannot find a common language with each other (read the comments: halls, everyone bears the brunt and how to prick the sick), what can we say about politicians and businessmen
  • bfg.game
    bfg.game 7 May 2013 17: 59 New
    +4
    Quote: firefox090
    Quote: rezerv
    Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.

    Data?

    Rave. the plant was demolished after the death of the director of the plant, Makarov, an intelligent man — he wanted to keep the factory profile with all his strength. Only our plant built aircraft carriers in the USSR on a slipway.
  • e-froloff
    e-froloff 7 May 2013 18: 23 New
    +2
    You should not get so involved in cooperation with a country where the government is not "completely" inclined towards trusting relations with Russia. I have nothing against ordinary Ukrainians and consider them fraternal people. drinks
  • Sashko07
    Sashko07 7 May 2013 19: 23 New
    +1
    I never understood why build a ship worth several hundred million dollars if it can be destroyed with a missile worth about 100 thousand? I mean, with a modern missile, which side is all modern air defense. Where is the logic?
    Not, of course, that such ships are needed by large maritime powers like Russia or the United States, but in fg it is us who plan missiles (thank God sho, but we can do this) and close the entire water area of ​​the Black Sea with these missiles. Maybe I'm wrong about something, correct it like that.
    1. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 7 May 2013 21: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Sashko07
      I never understood why build a ship worth several hundred million dollars if it can be destroyed with a missile worth about 100 thousand? I mean, with a modern missile, which side is all modern air defense.

      Maybe write the name of this miracle rocket with a miracle price.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 May 2013 21: 57 New
      0
      Quote: Sashko07
      Why build a ship worth several hundred million dollars if it can be destroyed with a rocket worth about 100 thousand?
      You will be surprised, but the chic Maybach or Bentley for half a million "evergreens" can burn out in a couple of minutes from one bottle of lousy gasoline, broken on the hood. It burns in the same way as a rusty Zaporozhets ... But they’re buying ... request And at the time when this ship was being laid, such a great power as independent Ukraine could not even dream in a terrible dream ...
    3. Scythian 35
      Scythian 35 7 May 2013 23: 11 New
      0
      Correctly you said !!! I myself do not understand why in such puddles as the Black and Baltic Sea a large fleet, and especially large warships. Indeed, the level of modern rocket science quietly allows sitting on the southern coast of the Crimea and drinking beer to calmly drown ships in Sinop or vice versa.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 7 May 2013 23: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: Scythian 35
        in puddles such as the Black and Baltic Sea
        Are you SO big that the Baltic Sea is no more than a puddle for your size? How much beer do you need in this case? belay
        Quote: Scythian 35
        the level of modern rocket science quietly allows
        ... to drown England in the Atlantic together with Ireland, without spending even half the ammunition of one ship of the 667 project (from the first modifications). And what's next, buy white slippers? Small ships have no more than 2 weapon systems (rarely more), which makes them highly specialized and ABSOLUTELY defenseless against most modern threats. Only the balanced squadron of BIG ships with a chance to fight back different weapons systems. And not only fight back, but also solve the task assigned to them
  • Conepatus
    Conepatus 7 May 2013 20: 16 New
    +3
    Quote: mark1
    I would not rush. something to order from Ukraine. Any orders open a source of financing for other shipbuilding programs, i.e. we can cultivate a fairly powerful competitor with our own hands. The potential capabilities of the Nikolaev Z-da are still very high, if they were good friends - another thing, and so ...

    Well, finance France. Your money is your whim. Only France, it’s NATO, and the children there are taken from Russian mothers. But who pays attention to such trifles when the speech comes about such money.
    1. katran666
      katran666 7 May 2013 20: 43 New
      -5
      what’s the matter to you, dear? do you like counting other people's money when you unlearn it? better learn how to execute and pay signed contracts ...
      1. Conepatus
        Conepatus 7 May 2013 21: 09 New
        +1
        Yes, where am I going to you? You love to count foreign lands. You would keep yours.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 May 2013 22: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Conepatus
      Well finance France
      So Serdyukov did this, to which there are VERY many similar questions ... By the way, it is France that has a very peculiar engineering school, which differs significantly from world analogues. And some things are very successful with the French
  • Andrew
    Andrew 7 May 2013 21: 38 New
    0
    I wonder how many Caliber / Onyx PUs in vertical USXs can be installed instead of Basalt hulks. And also install new radar detection and target designation. Refresh air defense systems and a good ship will be no worse than Ticonderoga.
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 7 May 2013 22: 29 New
      -1
      It’s expensive to maintain, because there’s only one. If you upgrade, then the whole series
  • Spike
    Spike 7 May 2013 21: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Conepatus
    Well, finance France. Your money is your whim. Only France, it’s NATO
    With Mistral, of course, it’s overkill, but at least everything will be on time, and with Ukraine it’s not a partnership, but some kind of bazaar bargaining such as give gas and cheaper, write off that debt, and give the Chinese as a result better than you. fool will deal with today's Ukraine.
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 7 May 2013 22: 16 New
      +2
      And what Ukraine did not deliver on time? Were there any orders?
      But as for gas, the Kremlin understood that the conditions on which the gas agreement was signed cannot be fulfilled initially. The only question is the time when the first failure to fulfill the agreement begins. By the way, about gas theft, this is to power. People pay regularly. Because if I don’t pay for 1 month, then pay for a 2-real annoyance. And then they started, “they’re stealing gas” Your gas is stealing Power, along with the oligarchs. And they are small. So this is a train of Masonic conspiracy, to which ordinary Ukrainians have nothing to do.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 7 May 2013 21: 58 New
    0
    For 25 million, you need to take it, only it seems like a duck.
    You can also buy corvettes if you link them with
    based in Sevastopol, new ships and boats.
  • Nik One
    Nik One 7 May 2013 22: 55 New
    +4
    The cruiser must be picked up (bought). He does not put Russia, the main thing is that the modernization does not fall into fabulous money and was carried out as soon as possible. Better to spend money on this cruiser than to repair the Aurora.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 23 New
    +1
    Photo of the Cruiser "Ukraine" from 09,05,13
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 25 New
    +1
    And more photos and below yet)
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 25 New
    +1
    And more photos and below yet)
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 27 New
    +1
    And more photos and below yet)
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  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 33 New
    0
    And more photos and below yet)
  • The comment was deleted.
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 34 New
    0
    And more photos and below yet)
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 35 New
    0
    And more photos and below yet)
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 35 New
    0
    And more photos and below yet)
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 36 New
    0
    And more photos and below yet)
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 37 New
    0
    And more photos and below yet)
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 38 New
    0
    Something like that. fellow
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 46 New
    +2
    And now a little bonus. In this photo, also taken in the water area of ​​the Plant named after 61 Communards
    You see 2 submerged tanks to which a submarine is moored, an analogue of our Ukrainian Zaporozhye and flooded around 94-95 (I don’t remember exactly) I see they clamped it to Russia.
    By the way, in the distance at the pier between the two cranes, on August 6, 2012, the bulk carrier "Vasily Shukshin" was drowned, which was driven for metal cutting. (Started cutting with bronze caps ... DEER!)
  • DAOSS
    DAOSS 10 May 2013 15: 47 New
    0
    Here is a "friendship" of peoples ((
  • DRUG DRUG
    DRUG DRUG 11 May 2013 18: 07 New
    +1
    Very good news. I am glad that Russia and Ukraine are restoring cooperation, and this cooperation takes place in a very sensitive area - military equipment. We have a lot in common - traditions, history, workdays, design ideas, etc. This will allow us to get closer after some separation. It’s time, it’s time to restore friendship and cooperation, because we are brothers. No matter how hard we try to quarrel, but we will still be together. These first steps in military cooperation will allow us to overcome the crisis of cooling relations. It is also encouraging that Russia is systematically and confidently restoring its fleet and its army. Very good news.
  • KononAV
    KononAV 19 May 2013 20: 51 New
    0
    25 million even is very small, and no one will order anything at Ukrainian plants, everyone knows what reliable partners they are.