Joint Ukrainian-Russian naval construction: truth and fiction

96
Rocket cruiser "Ukraine" at the wall of the plant "Name of the Communist 61" in Nikolaev. 2008 year


In the Russian and Ukrainian press, materials have repeatedly appeared that improve between then and then deteriorate relations. Similarly, the state of joint projects is changing. Sometimes a very paradoxical picture of potential areas of cooperation between Russia and Ukraine can be observed in the media. In particular, we are talking about cooperation in the construction and modernization of naval equipment. We bring to your attention some projects that, according to print publications, are currently the most promising in this area.

One of the most famous joint projects is, perhaps, the transfer to Russia of the Ukraine 11641 missile cruiser, project 2013. Negotiations on the possibility of transferring the vessel have been ongoing for quite some time, and only in April of this year the parties managed to reach framework agreements. According to information received by the press, the final agreement is expected to be signed in the summer of XNUMX, during the official visit of the Russian Minister of War S. Shoigu to Ukraine. Preliminary negotiations were held between representatives of the naval fleet Russia, USC, the naval forces of Ukraine, as well as the leadership of the state enterprise Shipbuilding Plant named after 61 Kommunar at the end of March this year. The main achievement of the negotiations can be considered an agreement on the cost of the cruiser - it was estimated at an amount equal to 25 million dollars. However, no objections have been received from the Russian side. An agreement was also reached regarding payments: they will be carried out by the supply of spare parts for Soviet-era equipment, which is still in service with the Ukrainian army.

In addition, Russia has undertaken to make orders for Ukrainian enterprises to carry out part of the work to complete the construction of the vessel. This, in particular, is the state enterprise Zorya Mashproekt, which must supply a spare parts kit for turbines of the main course.

Not without misunderstandings. Despite the fact that the Ukrainian side tried to fix the ship’s readiness at the 90 percent level, the Russian specialists who inspected the cruiser (these are representatives of the Zvezdochka CS and Severnaya Verf OJSC) concluded that in reality the ship’s readiness rate was not more than 67 percent. And it is this figure that was recorded in the final documents.

At the moment, it is planned to tow the cruiser to Severodvinsk for troubleshooting (that is, to identify possible ship defects and assess its suitability). According to the results of this analysis, a decision will be made on the possibility of its completion or conversion into a special purpose ship.

The necessary draft agreement is expected to be ready by the end of this year. Moreover, the navy has even proposed names for the cruiser, under which they will become part of the Russian fleet, Izmail and Poltava. However, it is not excluded that Ukraine can become the main source of spare parts for those cruisers of the same type currently operating as part of the fleet.

Recall, the missile cruiser under the name "Ukraine" was laid in 1984 year. True, then he had a different name - “Admiral of the Navy Lobov”. In 1996, its construction was discontinued due to lack of funding. Later, attempts were made to resume construction, but in 2001, they were completely abandoned. And only a few years ago, the completion of the vessel was resumed.

There is no certainty in the negotiations about the possibility of completing the construction of the floating technical base of the 2020 project at the Black Sea Shipyard for the Russian Navy. According to Ukrainian sources, the Russian side considers it possible to complete the construction of the base in the Ukrainian enterprise. It is known that in the near future a large number of old technical bases are planned to be written off and disposed of in the Russian army, therefore the introduction of a new floating base will make it possible to significantly increase the capabilities of the Russian fleet.

Recall that the floating technical base of the 2020 project at the Black Sea Shipyard began to be built in 1990 year. Its main purpose was to recharge nuclear reactors of nuclear submarines. When the base was launched, all work at the facility was stopped due to lack of funding, and later it was decided to freeze it.

About the possible resumption of construction of bases was discussed a few years ago. According to the existing information, the state of the floating base was checked by representatives of a special commission, which included employees of the design bureau - the designer. Then the state of the base was found to be quite satisfactory.

In addition to this project, the Ukrainian side hopes that the Russian fleet will show interest in ordering a modernized Corvette of the 58250 project from Ukrainian shipbuilding enterprises. It is noteworthy that an indirect confirmation of this interest is the working visit of representatives of the Russian industrial and trade department to the Black Sea Shipyard in the current year in order to familiarize with the production capacity of the enterprise. In the framework of the visit, the flow line-point line of the enterprise, outbuilding embankments, inclined slipways and floating dock were provided for familiarization. In addition, information was provided on current ship repair and shipbuilding projects at the plant. Currently, the enterprise, according to the director of the ChSZ V. Kalashnikov, is engaged in repairing the ships of the Ukrainian naval forces. In addition, it is ready to consider proposals on the possibility of cooperation on the modernization of the Russian fleet.

Recall that the corvettes of the 58250 project were designed by Ukrainian designers for the needs of the Ukrainian fleet. Initially it was planned to build 10 vessels of this class, but the lack of funding was the reason that the management was limited to only four corvettes. Previously, the cost of one such vessel will be about 250 million euros, which is lower than the cost of similar European-made vessels. At the same time, there is a possibility that Russia may opt for corvettes of the same class, but with a much lower cost. In particular, we are talking about the British project “Carif” (approximate cost - 252 million dollars), Turkish corvette “MILGEM” (cost - 260 million dollars), German “MEKO A-100” (300 million dollars). In addition, Russia has its own frigates, the cost of which is much lower, but at the same time they are in no way inferior to the Ukrainian ships in terms of their technical characteristics. It is not only about the frigates of the project 20380 (export version - "Tiger"), but also the project 1135.6, whose ships are going for the naval forces of India.

Despite this, the Ukrainian side does not lose hope for a positive result. And in connection with the construction of the corvette, as well as the fact that the question regarding the composition of its weapons is still open, Ukrainians hoped to co-produce with the Russian enterprises an analogue of the anti-ship missile X-35, but the proposal did not interest the Russian side.

The Ukrainian military leadership intends to retain submarine forces in its naval forces, and therefore does not exclude the possibility of ordering new diesel submarines in Russia. In addition, the possibility of cooperation in terms of joint use of diesel submarines "Alrosa" project 877В is not ruled out as new submarines of the project 06363 come to the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

By the way, story The creation of the submarines of the 877 project began as early as the 70s of the last century, when the development of a new generation of diesel-electric submarines began, which were designed to conduct operations against submarines and surface ships, conduct reconnaissance operations and minefields. Under this project, the order was built 50 submarines, given the experimental and export options. As for the Alrosa boat itself, it was laid in May 1988 of the year at the Krasnoye Sormovo enterprise in Nizhny Novgorod. It was launched in the 1989 year, and got its name only in 2004 year in honor of the joint stock company that took patronage over it.

And, finally, cooperation in the field of the modernization of torpedoes SET-65, known as the “260 product”, is not excluded. A large number of them are in the warehouses of the Ukrainian Navy. The history of their creation began in the 1960 year, they are in service with the 1965 year.

It should be noted that Ukrainian enterprises also carry out repairs, upgrades and life extension systems and mine-torpedo devices weapons in the interests of the Russian fleet. In particular, we are talking about the enterprise of JSC Petrovsky KZA JSC, which for the period of 2012-2013 from Russian customers received about 80 percent of the total financing of contracts at the enterprise. This company has now finished exploring possible areas of modernization of the control systems for torpedoes SET-65, in particular, homing systems, gyro trim-roll sensors, the introduction of a shallow-water pressure sensor and outboard pressure switch from a deep-water sensor to a shallow-water sensor.

How successful the cooperation on these projects will be depends equally on both the Ukrainian and the Russian side. There is nothing wrong with the joint implementation of these projects, but there is a threat that this cooperation may once again become one of the main tools in the development of political relations between Ukraine and Russia ...

Materials used:
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/496414.html?thread=15536158
http://vz.ru/news/2013/4/1/626848.html
http://newsreaders.ru/showthread.php?t=2754
http://pavlonews.info/news/categ_33/161372.html
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  1. +15
    7 May 2013 06: 46
    Well, yes, to transfer the latest technology to the Navy, hoh ... am, and they will sell it to the Chinas, as was the case with military swp.
    1. 0
      7 May 2013 08: 52
      It seems like they used to say that together you can build aircraft carriers?
      1. reserve
        -26
        7 May 2013 09: 01
        Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.
        1. avt
          +10
          7 May 2013 10: 08
          Quote: rezerv
          Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.

          Evona how! They destroyed the plant so that an independent aircraft carrier did not appear and did not allow the construction of the "Ukraine" circle laughing Now it’s clear why an invisible independent corvette will not be built, not only because they do not see it and therefore do not know what and where to weld, but also because of the evil machinations of the evil-minded Muscovites laughing . To the same stolen the last circle, the hope and bastion of an independent shipbuilding.
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          The Black Sea shipyard is ditched. The Lenin Forge has gone into oblivion

          Well, this is a bitter, objective reality. To overcome it, serious efforts and investment are needed both in equipment and in people. And seriously, in light of the development of the political situation in Ukraine, do you think this is real? I think no .
          1. +3
            7 May 2013 15: 07
            Quote: avt
            Now it’s clear why an invisible independent corvette will not be built, not only because they do not see it and therefore do not know what and where to weld, but also because of the evil machinations of the evil-minded Muscovites

            But there is stealth aviation fellow
          2. +4
            7 May 2013 15: 45
            Some kind of "Polovtsian dances" around the "Oskal of Communism" (project 11641).
            That am, not am.
            The vessel is needed but condition for 20 years of standing ?????????????
            There are more questions than answers.
        2. +3
          7 May 2013 17: 35
          After the collapse of the USSR, you had the most powerful and modern army located in those days in fourth place and numbering 700000 thousand soldiers and officers. You possessed nuclear weapons of mine and mobile-based. You had the most advanced industry and where is it all, and ??? Now only gas knows how to steal, but the whole of modern Ukraine produces zukerki)))
        3. 0
          7 May 2013 17: 37
          After the collapse of the USSR, you had the most powerful and modern army located in those days in fourth place and numbering 700000 thousand soldiers and officers. You possessed nuclear weapons of mine and mobile-based. You had the most advanced industry and where is it all, and ??? Now only gas knows how to steal, but the whole of modern Ukraine produces zukerki)))
        4. -2
          7 May 2013 17: 38
          reserve
          Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.

          After the collapse of the USSR, you had the most powerful and modern army located in those days in fourth place and numbering 700000 thousand soldiers and officers. You possessed nuclear weapons of mine and mobile-based. You had the most advanced industry and where is it all, and ??? Now only gas knows how to steal, but the whole of modern Ukraine produces zukerki)))
          1. +2
            8 May 2013 18: 35
            Quote: T-100
            only gas can steal

            not tired of sticking it everywhere, no?
        5. The comment was deleted.
        6. DAOSS
          0
          8 May 2013 23: 17
          In vain the man was bombarded! He is telling the truth!
          As previously reported, billionaire Vadim Novinsky, who recently renounced Russian citizenship in favor of Ukrainian, intends to run for the Verkhovna Rada in the majority district in Sevastopol.
          In fact, ChSZ belongs to Novitsky, who is now promoting Yanukovych to the deputies from Sevastopol:
          "Smart-holding" Novinsky in Sevastopol owns the Balaklava mining administration, which the owner intends to close and build in its place the resort Balaklava Green. We add that today PJSC "Nikolaev shipyard" Ocean "is part of the group" Smart-holding ", owned by Vadim Novinsky. Among Novinsky’s assets are PJSC “Kherson Shipbuilding Plant” and the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant. As you know, 90,25% of the shares of ChSZ belongs to PJSC Kherson Shipbuilding Plant. "
          As for the project 58250, the so-called Ukrainian corvette, everything is fine with it and the device is promising, but its first sales at ChSZ have not yet been properly pledged, the loot was allocated 3 years ago, but it "loot" somehow quickly ended. )) Where could it go, no one knows?

          As for the cruiser "Ukraine", everything is also pictorial, this topic has already been discussed on the pages of topwar.ru and I promised to post its fresh photos, but I forgot.
          Tomorrow I’ll be at the parade, I’ll definitely go for a walk to the factory, take a picture and lay out.
          1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +2
    7 May 2013 07: 48
    It is necessary to work with Ukraine very carefully. bought a cruiser, put it on the move with the help of forces and drive it for revision to Severodvinsk on its own (there is still an option with St. Petersburg). And that’s all, these joint ventures on positions that are not developed in Ukraine are a very delicate matter, as with China. Threw, throw and will throw.
    1. Captain Vrungel
      +30
      7 May 2013 09: 10
      Can you list all Ukrainian shipyards and their capabilities? If you fought less with each other, you would not need the French Mistrals. As regards the cruiser, you are so rich that you decided to restore the 30-year old "retro" and after many years of restoration work, put it on the wall of the naval museum. We must go ahead ahead of time. Introduce modern projects into metal. Their TARKs with colossal autonomy, rusting at the berths awaiting repairs, the fuel is drawn to the retro fighter.
      The Black Sea Shipyard is ditched. Lenin's smithy went into oblivion. Dull-headed rulers are not eternal, bandit-oligarchs are mortal, and the situation in the world is not in favor of Christians. A wave of Arab-Africans is rolling towards Europe, crushing everything under themselves. On us "from friendly" former republics and their "friends" Islamists. It's time to be more attentive to each other. Joint projects, joint production, this is joint security. Where are we going. We'll be together anyway.
      1. +9
        7 May 2013 09: 30
        Dear Captain Vrungel! How I agree with you. Of course, our countries need to stop shitting and unite. and stand up hand in hand against the "wave of Arab-Africans" in Europe, create and live together ... But the relationship must be formalized somehow, even when they get married - a marriage certificate is issued, and now a marriage contract is being signed ... so like that.
        A 30-year-old "retro" will perfectly fit into the composition of the Northern Fleet or Pacific Fleet. its characteristics after modernization will be close to the characteristics of promising destroyers, which we have to wait a long time.
        1. +2
          7 May 2013 09: 40
          Quote: mark1
          because its characteristics after modernization will be close to the characteristics of promising destroyers

          An awesome achievement, when the characteristics of a missile cruiser "will be close" to the characteristics of destroyers, and even invest in it like for five destroyers and it will be ready in 10 years.
          1. +3
            7 May 2013 10: 03
            Well, no need to cling to terms - a cruiser is not a cruiser. The last real cruisers are Project 68 and to some extent 1144, tk. they have structural protection (to a greater extent on Project 68), all the other so-called missile cruisers trace their ancestry from destroyers and are essentially ships of "one attack" (this also applies to "Tikondergs" since the hull with "Spryensom" is the same) If you read the TTZ for promising destroyers, then such parameters as displacement, strike capabilities and anti-aircraft defense capabilities are quite close to the existing project 1164. So the cruiser or destroyer classification is rather arbitrary. As for the timing of modernization, everything can be ruined, but if we assume that the readiness is 90-95% and not 67, and if you don’t come up with an absolutely stupid idea to replace everything at the root, then the modernization can take from 3 to 5 years. Considering. that destroyers are supposed to be built after the 16th year - this is normal
            1. +5
              7 May 2013 10: 31
              Quote: mark1
              but if you accept that all the same, the readiness is 90-95% and not 67

              If you have ever seen ships in storage, then looking at the ship in the photo the figure even in 70% seems very optimistic. The point is not even how much he WAS ready, but that of this is in working condition NOW.
              Quote: mark1
              if you don’t get the absolutely stupid idea to replace everything in the bud, then modernization can take from 3 to 5 years.

              The ship has been standing at the wall for 17 years, then what is on it, if not worn out, is outdated. Therefore, the idea of ​​replacing everything is not "absolutely stupid", but necessary. request
              1. +1
                7 May 2013 14: 12
                Dear Vladimir, I think that you and I are engaged in fortune telling on the coffee grounds - such a degree of readiness, such a degree of readiness ... Unfortunately, I do not know anything about the true state of "Ukraine" (I think that you too), I set out following an optimistic scenario based on the fact that the ship was being prepared for entry into the Ukrainian Navy, then it was put up for sale and maintained in a "commercial" form because the prospective buyers were not only us but also China. I think that only God, the commission and local workers know what could have been stolen during factory storage. Since ours, all the same, caught on to him, it means that the game is probably worth the candle. The equipment is completely modernized, it is not necessary to change everything, so all the same "the idea is stupid" You can only change the set of weapons - the transition to "Caliber" - "Onyx" competence, let the experts think.
        2. +3
          7 May 2013 10: 40
          1. Captain Vrungel: It's time to be more attentive to each other.
          More to such conclusions.
          I repeat, but the West is afraid even of cooperation between our military-industrial complex, and not only in the field of shipbuilding. There will be money, sales markets, and there will always be "heads"!
          2.mark1: ... after modernization will be close to the characteristics of promising destroyers,
          There will be a decent frigate (according to the pre-war classification, the leader of the destroyers), a multi-purpose warship.
          PS If Ukraine joins the EU (not to mention NATO), then our defense industry is FULL KERDYK-the West does not need competitors ...
          1. petry4io
            0
            13 May 2013 09: 42
            Yes, the development of the military-industrial complex for the enemy of death is similar, because then it will not be possible to impose its tentacles on the country.
        3. The comment was deleted.
  3. +4
    7 May 2013 08: 08
    An agreement was also reached regarding payments: they will be carried out by the supply of spare parts for Soviet-era equipment, which is still in service with the Ukrainian army
    - which once again negates all the brave statements of the representatives of Ukraine that they have established the production of "everything" at their enterprises. It may have been adjusted, but not the quality, not the quantity of products produced does not quite correspond to the required level
    1. +2
      7 May 2013 09: 58
      Negotiations on the possibility of transferring the ship have been going on for quite some time, and only in April of this year the parties managed to reach framework agreements. According to information received by the press, the final agreement is expected to be signed in the summer of 2013, during the official visit of the Russian Minister of War S. Shoigu to Ukraine.

      By the way, this is not true.

      As for the spare parts
      Quote: svp67
      that they set up the production of "everything" in their factories.

      no need to exaggerate, all of us, in principle, have no economic justification for arranging production.
      1. +8
        7 May 2013 10: 38
        By the way - something at VO so preoccupied with what is happening in Ukraine that they missed sending a hovercraft built to China.
        1. Scythian 35
          +1
          7 May 2013 22: 51
          Kars
          Good news, great toy. Ten of these things and a team on a nearby bank.
          1. 0
            7 May 2013 22: 55
            What is good here? For the sake of momentary profit, you lost your income?
            1. +1
              7 May 2013 22: 58
              Quote: Spade
              For the sake of momentary profit, you lost your income?

              Why did you decide this?
              Something the French were also going to sell the Mistral to the Russian Federation. Two at home, two in the Russian Federation.
              And the market for such funds is small, and everyone wants not only hardware but also technology))
              1. 0
                7 May 2013 23: 10
                Do you think that the Chinese, like the Greeks, will manage four things? Or, walk like walk, eight? Twenty pieces are definitely riveted.
                Here is your first lost gain. The Russian side will never place your order for new ships — the second.
                1. +1
                  7 May 2013 23: 33
                  Quote: Spade
                  Here is your first lost gain.

                  Quote: Spade
                  Or, walk like walk, eight? Twenty pieces are definitely riveted.

                  But you joker))) for starters, without technology transfer, they could have bought nothing at all, and the plant together with the technology would have successfully died, the aphids were re-profiled.

                  And the chances that Ukraine would have made everything 20 less than ZERO. And Ukraine will do so for these twenty components, not all but a fairly large percentage.
                  Quote: Spade
                  The Russian side will never place your order for new ships — the second.
                  So what? This is, in principle, and so on the verge of fantasy. And even this is not a fact.
                  1. +1
                    7 May 2013 23: 44
                    Quote: Kars
                    and the plant together with stekhnologii would successfully die, aphids repurposed.

                    And he will die successfully already. I know the people who skated there specialists for Russian enterprises to woo. And very successfully.


                    Quote: Kars
                    So what? This is, in principle, and so on the verge of fantasy. And even this is not a fact.

                    Now for sure. Rather, the Finns, Poles or Koreans will turn.
                    1. +1
                      7 May 2013 23: 47
                      Quote: Spade
                      And he will die successfully

                      but not yesterday, as it could be.
                      Quote: Spade
                      for Russian enterprises

                      everyone is looking for better. We have no war, so let them go if they want.
                      Quote: Spade
                      Now for sure. Rather, the Finns, Poles or Koreans will turn.

                      You can also go to the French. And certainty is very important. And then the snot is smeared as in AN 70
          2. +1
            7 May 2013 22: 55
            Quote: Scythian 35
            Good news, plush toy

            For China))) and fear for Taiwan
            1. Scythian 35
              0
              7 May 2013 23: 21
              Quote: Kars
              China))) and fear for Taiwan

              I think China has not grown up to a major landing operation, maybe in ten years, provided that it does not slow down the rate of buildup of military potential. After all, the landing operation, I think, is the most difficult type of attack !!! Taiwan, too, does not bast, if the Taiwanese fight, then half of the PLA will float in the South China Sea.
          3. petry4io
            0
            13 May 2013 09: 44
            Better to let them do it in high quality, but they will have time to rivet.
  4. +6
    7 May 2013 08: 14
    At Ukrainian shipyards, it is quite possible to build support vessels for the Navy, there is nothing unique in them, and load their shipyards with warships. For 25 million RRC "Ukraine", of course, it is possible to take it, but, in fact, it will have to be built anew.
    1. +5
      7 May 2013 09: 02
      I would not rush. something to order from Ukraine. Any orders open a source of financing for other shipbuilding programs, i.e. we can cultivate a fairly powerful competitor with our own hands. The potential capabilities of the Nikolaev Z-da are still very high, if they were good friends - another thing, and so ...
      1. Misantrop
        0
        7 May 2013 09: 52
        Quote: mark1
        we can cultivate a fairly powerful competitor with our own hands.

        As a bunch of KB-factory - I doubt it. And without this, it’s difficult to build anything modern and competitive. But to support shipbuilding dynasties of factory workers would be a good thing. Many of them are now working at Russian enterprises in the shipbuilding industry. and PM-12, built at the very beginning of the 90s in Nikolaev (reloading nuclear submarine active zones) is also aging
        1. +7
          7 May 2013 10: 16
          Quote: Misantrop
          But to support shipbuilding dynasties of factory workers would be a good thing.

          You are welcome to our factories, with specialists a terrible shortage. I think they will carry on hands. And supporting dynasties in Ukraine is the task of the Ukrainian government.
          1. Misantrop
            +1
            7 May 2013 14: 07
            Quote: mark1
            You are welcome to our factories, with specialists a terrible shortage.

            And on yours, where is this? It’s a little late for me myself, but my cousin (he is a dozen years younger) travels regularly, now he’s started taking his son with him. To "Almaz" in St. Petersburg. He is a hydraulics specialist, a ship collector. The Sea plant in Primorsky. There is little work at the plant itself, as almost the entire village is skating. Especially those who, even during the Soviet era, began to work in their specialty, as he
  5. 0
    7 May 2013 08: 26
    “Shipyard named after 61 Communards”

    Missile cruiser "Ukraine" at the wall of the plant "Named after 61 Komissar" in Nikolaev. 2008 year



    So communards or commissars?
    1. reserve
      -5
      7 May 2013 09: 08
      Factory 61 Communards. Although among those 61 people who were detained for violation of the law and order of the Communards were only a few people. When the "whites" entered the city, they immediately put things in order. The light came on and trams began to run. When the "Reds" entered the city, devastation immediately began. Alas and ah. ... ...
      1. Hudo
        +7
        7 May 2013 09: 37
        Quote: rezerv
        When the "Reds" entered the city, devastation immediately began. Alas and ah. ... ...


        And when the Mazepans entered the city with the yellow-blue flags of the Austrian province of Lower Austria, everything that was built by the "red" disappeared, and the ships and light and trams were left with only Turkish-style shalvars and an oseledets, similar to a not dried sperm flagellum, on the head of the Svidomites.
        1. reserve
          -7
          7 May 2013 10: 08
          In vain do you expire with bile, Hudo. In Ukraine over the past 20 years there was no Ukrainian government. At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian. Yushchenko does not matter. This is generally some ugly mockery of the country.
          1. Hudo
            +10
            7 May 2013 10: 28
            Quote: rezerv
            In Ukraine over the past 20 years there was no Ukrainian government.

            I myself live in Ukraine and I know by hearsay that the government was neither Ukrainian nor any at all.

            Quote: rezerv
            This is generally some ugly mockery of the country.


            Yes, you are right, the very existence of the State Department's cannibalistic project "Ukraine" is a mockery of the population living there and the very notion of "country"
          2. +3
            7 May 2013 13: 05
            Quote: rezerv
            In vain do you expire with bile, Hudo. In Ukraine over the past 20 years there was no Ukrainian government. At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian. Yushchenko does not matter. This is generally some ugly mockery of the country.

            pro-Soviet, pro-Russian? nude nude ... do you think it is better in the EU?
            look at the Baltic states
            1. petry4io
              0
              13 May 2013 09: 43
              In her bacon, they are anointed with them.)
          3. +8
            7 May 2013 14: 28
            At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian.

            Did you confuse Ukraine with Belarus for an hour? This is a pro-Soviet and pro-Russian government with minor deviations. I would like to have this too. And then: I voted for Yushchenko - I got into such a mess that it’s a shame to this day, I voted for Yanukovych - I’m still ashamed. "Where can a poor peasant go?" ...
            1. 0
              7 May 2013 23: 03
              Quote: Old_Kapitan
              Have you confused Ukraine with Belarus for an hour?

              Good evening. You look more closely under the feet in relation to the leaders.
          4. MG42
            +5
            7 May 2013 16: 15
            Quote: rezerv
            In Ukraine over the past 20 years there was no Ukrainian government. At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian. Yushchenko does not matter

            Yushchenko = six America, the wife worked in the US State Department, here is a real Svidomo cahol laughing
          5. Misantrop
            +2
            7 May 2013 17: 46
            Quote: rezerv
            At the helm so far all the time are pro-Soviet or pro-Russian.

            Is it possible by name? Which of the presidents was pro-Russian, maybe Kuchma? Or Kravchuk ?. If Yushchenko "does not count", then Yanukovych remains. Awesome pro-Russian leader laughing Maybe then we will find something like this among the prime ministers? Khrenushki, the same menagerie. And if all this bastard is NOT PRO-UKRAINIAN, then you can only find a pro-Ukrainian in a fool (a madman on embroidered shirts). Farion is pro-Ukrainian enough for you? And Tyagnibok? Or (when they liquidly obgaditsya, having seized power) will also start shouting that they are "fosterlings of the KPSS"
            1. avt
              +1
              7 May 2013 18: 16
              Quote: Misantrop
              Is it possible by name? Which of the presidents was pro-Russian, maybe Kuchma? Or Kravchuk ?. If Yushchenko "does not count", then Yanukovych remains. Awesome pro-Russian leader

              Trying in vain, this is not treated. So whom do you want to put - they will nevertheless demand to remove the steering wheel. laughing Malicious, Moscow.
  6. +9
    7 May 2013 09: 08
    Yes, they will never agree, but it’s a pity 30 years ago such ships were built during the union!
  7. +8
    7 May 2013 09: 20
    Not everything is so bad in (or in) Ukraine. The guys make great gas turbine engines. Almost all of our Navy goes on them and almost all helicopters fly. Ukrainian tank "Oplot" at the level of world standards (including the T-90). We must look for ways of interaction, and not swear over trifles with each other.
    1. +2
      7 May 2013 16: 10
      No one has been cursing for a long time. Work in progress, negotiate, compete, etc. Or do you think a pack of morons in this forum is an indicator of relationships?
  8. 0
    7 May 2013 09: 23
    The missile cruiser must be taken! Ukrainian corvettes are not needed! I agree that it is possible (NECESSARY) to order support vessels at Ukrainian shipyards. We are waiting for Shoigu's decision on the RC "Ukraine" !!
  9. 0
    7 May 2013 09: 53
    о there is a threat that this cooperation may once again become one of the main tools in the development of political relations between Ukraine and Russia ...
    In the hands of the Russian Federation naturally.
    1. Misantrop
      +2
      7 May 2013 17: 50
      Quote: Kars
      In the hands of the Russian Federation naturally.

      Well, yes, they will begin to blackmail, demanding "gas for writing, and oil for free" laughing
      1. +2
        7 May 2013 18: 38
        Quote: Misantrop
        Well, yes, they’ll start blackmailing me,

        they will begin. Do not hesitate. Or can it be that Ukrainian enterprises refuse orders? Can you give an example when ours refused Russian flavors? Zorya makes a customs declaration for Russian frigates, and that because of politics or NATO does not sabotage))
        1. Misantrop
          +1
          7 May 2013 20: 10
          Quote: Kars
          can you give an example when our abandoned Russian zakah?

          Easy. SAME factory and epic with an aircraft carrier. Thus, who then shoved China for nonsense
          1. +2
            7 May 2013 20: 16
            Quote: Misantrop
            Easy. SAME factory and epic with an aircraft carrier

            Well, as usual, you and laughed.
            Examine the material in more detail then come.
            The Russian Federation refused to complete it as unnecessary. And Ukraine kept it at the shipyard for its money for more than one year)))
            1. Misantrop
              +1
              7 May 2013 20: 54
              Quote: Kars
              The Russian Federation refused its completion as unnecessary
              Maybe stop lying already? And being rude at the same time. All links go to Vinnik (who made out his sale). Naturally, now he will tell anything wink
              They did not agree with the Russian Federation in price and ... for one more, rather interesting, condition. Now this is only in some places the beginning is occasionally mentioned:
              In 1998, the National Agency for Reconstruction and European Integration (there was such a thing in Ukraine at that time) announced a tender for the sale of "Varyag", while the main condition was the buyer's commitment do not use the ship for military purposes.
              http://economics.unian.net/rus/news/141200-pervyiy-avianosets-kitaya-ukraina-syi

              grala-v-casino.html
              Funny clarification, isn't it? And why, in that case, the RF would be needed, can you tell me? And China bought it ... through an offshore, formally bypassing this point
              1. 0
                7 May 2013 21: 18
                Quote: Misantrop
                Maybe stop lying already? And being rude at the same time.

                Maybe it really hurts my eyes))))
                Quote: Misantrop
                In 1998 year

                Quote: Misantrop
                Do not use the ship for military purposes.

                Are you aware that before 1998 it was -1991,1992,1993,1994))))
                Quote: Misantrop
                Funny clarification, isn't it? And why, in that case, the RF would be needed, can you tell me?

                Something China was able to circumvent this problem, but EreFniki could not))))))
                TU-160 when stopped braking redeem honored)))


                If so deeply off topic - find Andrei from Chelyabinsk, he gave excellent links on the topic)))
                1. Misantrop
                  +1
                  7 May 2013 21: 29
                  Quote: Kars
                  find Andrei from Chelyabinsk, he gave excellent links on the topic)))
                  ALL of these links appeared much later than the event in question. And all this was discussed THEN in the media quite widely and in detail. And since until the middle of 93 I was in the Russian Federation, I had the opportunity to compare information, so to speak, from different sides. And discuss it with people who were really "in the subject." Including with V. Bezkorovainy (thus, who later commanded the Ukrainian fleet, they served together). And, interestingly, the information that was THEN, with the one that draw NOW, different very substantially. Including with regards to the amount for completion that the plant wanted to slop from the Russian Federation. I don’t remember the number now, but it significantly exceeded that which China paid. Then a lot of gossip about this.
                  1. +1
                    7 May 2013 22: 09
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    And, interestingly, the information that went THEN, with the one that is drawn NOW, differs quite significantly. Including with regards to the amount for completion that the plant wanted to slop from the Russian Federation. I don’t remember the number now, but it significantly exceeded that which China paid. Then there was still a lot of gossip about this.


                    Well, words, words, but at least one hint that the Russian Federation from 1992-98 turned to Ukraine with a proposal to complete the aircraft carrier at its own expense, and you did not bring it to yourself. And we are just discussing incidents when Ukrainian plants refused Russian contracts .
                    And by the way, it was precisely during this period that the Russian Federation sold its aircraft-carrying cruisers to China, Kiev and Minsk, do not you find it interesting?

                    As for the price and the tender. Of course, I understand that you are no longer young and think in old-fashioned templates, but didn’t you understand that this tender was played for the United States? That the case was bought not by China, but by a private owner from Macau, but also Turkey for a year didn’t let him through the straits? And the sum of 20 million is the tip of the iceberg.

                    But still waiting, maybe you can
                    Quote: Kars
                    can you give an example when ours abandoned the Russian flavors? Zorya does the gas turbine engine for the Russian frigates, and that because of politics or NATO does not sabotage))
                    1. Misantrop
                      0
                      7 May 2013 22: 21
                      Quote: Kars
                      ours refused Russian zakahs?

                      An example that I know EXACTLY (not from the media, since I was one of the recipients). Simferopol, Fiolent plant. Sensors SKPU, DBKPT, hydrogen afterburners PDM, spare parts for station MRK-50, spare parts for BIUS "Omnibus" and even before the hell is on the list. Recipients - ships 667 BDR and BDRM of the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet project. Things are not very cheap, the order is permanent, guaranteed, very large in volume. Instead - the curtailment of production and reorientation of the remainder of the production of handheld power tools in the low-cost segment of the market. By the way, the management of the plant itself howled and cursed, trying to keep the order from the fleet. ORDER FROM TOP

                      By the way, about the sale of Tu-160 and Tu-95. I know the people who took part in the reception of these aircraft. But there were no planes. TOTALLY looted. Up to the point that all the electric harnesses (not to mention the engines and devices) had to be laid and installed AGAIN.
                      1. +1
                        7 May 2013 22: 40
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        By the way, the management of the plant itself howled and swore, trying to keep the order from the fleet. ORDER FROM TOP


                        Well, of course, this is your word, but there is no exposure to outsiders or resources?



                        Quote: Misantrop
                        only planes didn’t turn out. TOTALLY looted. Up to the point that all the electric harnesses (not to mention the engines and devices) had to be laid and installed AGAIN


                        How did they fly to Engels from Poltava on their own? Well, I would ask VAF, otherwise I’m too lazy to look for me where he (and he is a pilot) told another version.
                        And if there weren’t enough spare parts and spare parts on the plane, then what to do with the tragedy is natural, to remove everything that can be done before the transfer.

                        purely for fun
                      2. Misantrop
                        0
                        7 May 2013 23: 09
                        Quote: Kars
                        and third-party exposure
                        Ask V. Bezkorovainy, at that time he commanded our flotilla. And I, among other things, for 6 years provided communication between the commanders of the combat units and services of the ship and the supplying plants. And the last 2 years - at the headquarters of the flotilla in the EMC under the direct command of V.N. Panteleeva (now heads the AEU reloading center in Gremikha). I have no connection with them right now, alas
                        How did they fly to Engels from Poltava?
                        DARM then worked well, they took all this with them, and collected it there before the flight
                      3. 0
                        7 May 2013 23: 39
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Ask V. Bezkorovayny

                        Customize the telephone? Or where to file an official request? It's not difficult for me, with seals and a legal address.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        combat units and services of the ship and supplying plants.

                        It happens of course. But who was riding for Fiolent at that time? And is the order nowhere documented?
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        DARM then worked well, they took all this with them, and collected it there before the flight

                        If I robbed them, I’ll tell you honestly no one would fly anywhere))) but it still doesn’t mean anything. The Ukrainian Air Force was not going to exploit planes of the strategist. Bomber class, and could not.
                      4. Misantrop
                        0
                        8 May 2013 10: 28
                        Quote: Kars
                        Strategic bomber class airplanes Ukrainian Air Force were not going to exploit, and could not.

                        It is strange that with this approach, this cruiser is still not plundered in the same way as airplanes ... what
                        Quote: Kars
                        But who was riding for Fiolent at that time? And is the order nowhere documented?
                        How do I know? At that time I was not the director of "Fiolent" ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        Or where to file an official request? It's not difficult for me, with seals and a legal address.
                        I don’t have Bezkorovainy’s phone number and address (it was TOO difficult to read about this just above, I understand), but Y. Tymoshenko now lives at a well-known address. So write to her. Ask for what reason ALL export contracts of the "More" plant were disrupted, and the Chinese took place only when it began to have serious problems. She is an honest person, she will answer the truth, she will share links to documents laughing The request is serious, even "with a legal address and seal" lol There were at least three contracts, moreover, work on the zero cycle had already begun, the plant management gathered all over the former USSR (its employees went to work), etc.
  10. Vtel
    +5
    7 May 2013 10: 40
    missile cruiser under the name "Ukraine" was laid back in 1984

    It still does not leak, but rather. While Ukraine is flirting with NATO, what joint military enterprises can be talked about, only about ice cream production.
  11. +2
    7 May 2013 10: 55
    Well. Nikolaev, like Odessa and Sevastopol, are Russian cities, cities of great glory in the past. And within the framework of the independent, they will never be able not only to develop, but simply reach the level of the 80s. I say this as a person who lived at one time in Nikolaev and did not know by hearsay how much the shipyards and the once-famous Nikolaev Shipbuilding Institute had degraded the entire Union. And all this happened long before a businessman bought something there.
  12. Algor73
    +5
    7 May 2013 11: 06
    Captain Vrungel said correctly, the danger does not come from the West, the danger comes from the south. In all the past times, they defended together, so it will be in the future. Well, there will be no Turks or other Asiatic Slovenian ally. Even during the Second World War, some nationalities were taken away from the front, some were not called up. Still, you need to forget mutual grievances. The Ukrainian government has jerked left and right and will calm down. But to be together, you need something to unite. At this stage, this is cooperation with joint projects. There is no longer any joint ideology and there will not be (even through the OUN-UPA). And regarding the transfer of technology by Russia, I doubt it. In Ukraine, and its own are quite developed, there are developments not worse. And this eternal "and we, and you" are pretty tired. Joint projects need to be developed, because this is the key to unification. Maybe the Union will no longer be revived, but something like that will happen, the danger that is impending is common.
    1. itkul
      -3
      7 May 2013 12: 03
      Quote: Algor73
      And this eternal "and we, and you" are pretty tired. Joint projects need to be developed, because this is the key to unification.


      So you’re kind of going to unite with Europe.
      1. +7
        7 May 2013 13: 00
        It does not depend on the people living in Ukraine. As once it did not depend on the Germans - whether Germany would unite. Everything is decided in Moscow and in Washington, so Russia should make every effort to return Ukraine - at least in parts. For example, all my friends and acquaintances would be happy to see the Novorossiysk Republic with the capital in Odessa as part of the Russian Federation. in our south, Ukrainians are a minority, and no one speaks Ukrainian at all. This is Russian land and should return to Russia.
        1. Captain Vrungel
          +4
          7 May 2013 19: 01
          Shaw you did bad Odessa. And so continuous intervention. The Jews left, so gushing no one was too lazy. Svidomyty from the west, bandits from the east. Where are the inhabitants of Odessa? As they said in Odessa, where you can meet the native Odessa? Only in the city bath. But they closed the last bath, go to saunas and instead of a basin with water, washcloths and soaps, then wash ourselves with our own, we are not economical Europeans. And generally Odessa remained in Odessa. Nanai beaches, Chinese flea markets, gypsy bazaars, Armenian MAFs, judges, prosecutors and trash brothers, in general, all those burdened with power are called. If you make the capital, what kind of flow of feces into the city will flood. Direct free city will work with Porto Franco. Let everyone in, don't let anyone out. so as not to poison the environment.
    2. 0
      7 May 2013 16: 44
      I agree with everything.! well done. he said everything correctly
  13. +3
    7 May 2013 11: 48
    Strange as it may seem, the Eastern people have always been much closer to Russia both in spirit and in the conscience of its Western "partners."
    Westerners always only attacked, and betrayed at every opportunity.

    You don't need a "donor" or "source of spare parts". We need a battle cruiser.

    Glory to the Russian Navy!
    1. Misantrop
      +1
      7 May 2013 21: 47
      Quote: Megatron
      Westerners always only attacked, and betrayed at every opportunity.
      Remember, the motto: "Britain has no permanent allies, it has permanent INTERESTS" is not at all considered the height of cynicism there. On the contrary, an example of a pragmatic British approach to business. Is it any wonder then that they constantly betray and substitute?
      1. 0
        7 May 2013 22: 19
        Russia has two friends, the army and navy.
        Quote: Misantrop
        "Britain DOESN'T have permanent allies, it has permanent INTERESTS"

        And they hide it? Maybe others need to be smarter?
  14. +2
    7 May 2013 13: 01
    Something I doubt about the advisability of buying "Ukraine". For so many years, there probably is little left that does not require a complete revision or replacement. And even more so, I doubt the expediency of purchasing corvettes from Ukraine, especially since we have no worse and cheaper ones. In general, cooperation in the military sphere with Ukraine can only be established when they come to their senses and stop pushing the country under NATO, which is analogous to shoving under the knife.
    1. Misantrop
      +2
      7 May 2013 17: 55
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      For so many years, most likely there is little left, which does not require a complete audit or replacement.

      A case with an unworn set and running machines with an undeveloped resource. From materials checked by the Soviet OTK and military acceptance of those years. Even this is already very expensive. And this is ALREADY ready, no need to order and wait several years. Stuffing is not difficult to change
  15. 0
    7 May 2013 13: 36
    Time will put everything in its place.
    1. +2
      7 May 2013 15: 09
      Quote: Russian
      Time will put everything in its place
      .... of course he will arrange, but more often in the form of monuments, dummies, mummies and other museum exhibits. We must do it now, with our own hands, and not wait for the mythical good guy with a bag full of kalachas.
  16. Andrii
    +4
    7 May 2013 13: 53
    Seven feet under the keel "Ukraine"! And then Thank God, at least something is moving.
  17. 0
    7 May 2013 14: 18
    Still, you need to forget mutual insults. The government of Ukraine twitched right and left and calm down. But to be together, you need something to unite.
    But this is hell, dear! You first decide who you are with, and then we will build together, apoka, twitch like r ... oh in the hole, you will not get a penny on this process in Russia ...
  18. 0
    7 May 2013 15: 10
    Corvettes in Russia have their own, and the cruiser to be completed in Nikolaev is possible and necessary, this is the fastest and cheapest way to replenish the Russian Navy with a rank 1 ship.
  19. bfg.game
    +3
    7 May 2013 16: 16
    I see this scrap metal every day, most likely it’s a matter of prestige to finish it and it’s better not to finish it with us ... But our ChSZ cannot even finish the corvette, not like a cruiser ... Everything is stolen
  20. 0
    7 May 2013 16: 23
    To finish building? There is no need to finish building, but you need to rebuild. His weapons are outdated irreparably. I doubt that it makes sense and there is an opportunity now to arm this cruiser in the state. Almost all air defense positions have more modern systems. RCC today is completely different. I'm not talking about fire control systems, CIUS and radar.

    I believe that the ship is purchased for parts.
  21. bfg.game
    +3
    7 May 2013 16: 26
    Quote: vostok1982
    It does not depend on the people living in Ukraine. As once it did not depend on the Germans - whether Germany would unite. Everything is decided in Moscow and in Washington, so Russia should make every effort to return Ukraine - at least in parts. For example, all my friends and acquaintances would be happy to see the Novorossiysk Republic with the capital in Odessa as part of the Russian Federation. in our south, Ukrainians are a minority, and no one speaks Ukrainian at all. This is Russian land and should return to Russia.



    -100% support !!!, the Slav brothers got this SKIDNESS ...
    In Lviv, May 9 - the mourning day is declared day-delirium.
    You may have a totalitarian rule, but Putin at least behaves the Boss. I did not like Russia at the helm of the weak
    We have everything to the very top thieves and residents ..
  22. The comment was deleted.
    1. Misantrop
      +2
      7 May 2013 21: 51
      Quote from rudolf
      And after launching to distill to our shipyards for their completion. Including the promising Novorossiysk one.

      Is that in Novorossiysk. It will turn out too far - around Europe. In full readiness mode - nothing else, but pulling an empty "drum" with unassembled damage control systems is not the greatest pleasure ...
  23. 0
    7 May 2013 17: 27
    Quote: rezerv
    Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.

    Data?
  24. a boat
    +4
    7 May 2013 17: 50
    what kind of cooperation can we talk about when there is no eliminatory respect! if the people cannot find a common language with each other (read the comments: halls, everyone bears the brunt and how to prick the sick), what can we say about politicians and businessmen
  25. bfg.game
    +4
    7 May 2013 17: 59
    Quote: firefox090
    Quote: rezerv
    Russia bought the factory where the aircraft carriers were built and broke it. Now they are trying to build a corvette there.

    Data?

    Rave. the plant was demolished after the death of the director of the plant, Makarov, an intelligent man — he wanted to keep the factory profile with all his strength. Only our plant built aircraft carriers in the USSR on a slipway.
  26. e-froloff
    +2
    7 May 2013 18: 23
    You shouldn't get so involved in cooperation with a country whose government is not "quite" inclined towards trusting relations with Russia. I have nothing against ordinary Ukrainians and I consider them a fraternal people. drinks
  27. Sashko07
    +1
    7 May 2013 19: 23
    I never understood why build a ship worth several hundred million dollars if it can be destroyed with a missile worth about 100 thousand? I mean, with a modern missile, which side is all modern air defense. Where is the logic?
    Not, of course, that such ships are needed by large maritime powers like Russia or the United States, but in fg it is us who plan missiles (thank God sho, but we can do this) and close the entire water area of ​​the Black Sea with these missiles. Maybe I'm wrong about something, correct it like that.
    1. 0
      7 May 2013 21: 56
      Quote: Sashko07
      I never understood why build a ship worth several hundred million dollars if it can be destroyed with a missile worth about 100 thousand? I mean, with a modern missile, which side is all modern air defense.

      Maybe write the name of this miracle rocket with a miracle price.
    2. Misantrop
      0
      7 May 2013 21: 57
      Quote: Sashko07
      Why build a ship worth several hundred million dollars if it can be destroyed with a rocket worth about 100 thousand?
      You will be surprised, but a chic "Maybach" or "Bentley" for half a million "evergreens" can burn out in a couple of minutes from one bottle of lousy gasoline smashed on the hood. It burns in the same way like a rusty Zaporozhets ... But they are buying ... request And at the time when this ship was being laid, such a great power as independent Ukraine could not even dream in a terrible dream ...
    3. Scythian 35
      0
      7 May 2013 23: 11
      Correctly you said !!! I myself do not understand why in such puddles as the Black and Baltic Sea a large fleet, and especially large warships. Indeed, the level of modern rocket science quietly allows sitting on the southern coast of the Crimea and drinking beer to calmly drown ships in Sinop or vice versa.
      1. Misantrop
        +1
        7 May 2013 23: 27
        Quote: Scythian 35
        in puddles such as the Black and Baltic Sea
        Are you SO big that the Baltic Sea is no more than a puddle for your size? How much beer do you need in this case? belay
        Quote: Scythian 35
        the level of modern rocket science quietly allows
        ... to drown England in the Atlantic together with Ireland, without spending even half the ammunition of one ship of the 667 project (from the first modifications). And what's next, buy white slippers? Small ships have no more than 2 weapon systems (rarely more), which makes them highly specialized and ABSOLUTELY defenseless against most modern threats. Only the balanced squadron of BIG ships with a chance to fight back different weapons systems. And not only fight back, but also solve the task assigned to them
  28. Conepatus
    +3
    7 May 2013 20: 16
    Quote: mark1
    I would not rush. something to order from Ukraine. Any orders open a source of financing for other shipbuilding programs, i.e. we can cultivate a fairly powerful competitor with our own hands. The potential capabilities of the Nikolaev Z-da are still very high, if they were good friends - another thing, and so ...

    Well, finance France. Your money is your whim. Only France, it’s NATO, and the children there are taken from Russian mothers. But who pays attention to such trifles when the speech comes about such money.
    1. -5
      7 May 2013 20: 43
      what’s the matter to you, dear? do you like counting other people's money when you unlearn it? better learn how to execute and pay signed contracts ...
      1. Conepatus
        +1
        7 May 2013 21: 09
        Yes, where am I going to you? You love to count foreign lands. You would keep yours.
    2. Misantrop
      +1
      7 May 2013 22: 00
      Quote: Conepatus
      Well finance France
      So Serdyukov did this, to which there are VERY many similar questions ... By the way, it is France that has a very peculiar engineering school, which differs significantly from world analogues. And some things are very successful with the French
  29. 0
    7 May 2013 21: 38
    I wonder how many Caliber / Onyx PUs in vertical USXs can be installed instead of Basalt hulks. And also install new radar detection and target designation. Refresh air defense systems and a good ship will be no worse than Ticonderoga.
    1. Conepatus
      -1
      7 May 2013 22: 29
      It’s expensive to maintain, because there’s only one. If you upgrade, then the whole series
  30. +1
    7 May 2013 21: 45
    Quote: Conepatus
    Well, finance France. Your money is your whim. Only France, it’s NATO
    With Mistral, of course, it’s overkill, but at least everything will be on time, and with Ukraine it’s not a partnership, but some kind of bazaar bargaining such as give gas and cheaper, write off that debt, and give the Chinese as a result better than you. fool will deal with today's Ukraine.
    1. Conepatus
      +2
      7 May 2013 22: 16
      And what Ukraine did not deliver on time? Were there any orders?
      As for gas, the Kremlin understood perfectly well that the conditions on which the gas contract was signed could not be fulfilled initially. The only question is when the first failure to fulfill the contract will begin. By the way, about gas theft, this is to the power. The people are paying regularly. , if I don’t pay for 1 month, then pay for 2-real tension. And then they set it up, "they steal gas" Your gas is stealing Power, along with the oligarchs. And they are mallants. So this is a Masonic conspiracy, to which ordinary Ukrainians have nothing to do.
  31. 0
    7 May 2013 21: 58
    For 25 million, you need to take it, only it seems like a duck.
    You can also buy corvettes if you link them with
    based in Sevastopol, new ships and boats.
  32. Nik one
    +4
    7 May 2013 22: 55
    You need to take (buy) the cruiser. He does not fit Russia, the main thing is that the modernization does not get fabulous money and was carried out as soon as possible. Better to spend money on this cruiser than repairing the Aurora.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. DAOSS
    +1
    10 May 2013 15: 23
    Photo of the cruiser "Ukraine" from 09,05,13
  35. DAOSS
    +1
    10 May 2013 15: 25
    And more photos and below yet)
  36. DAOSS
    +1
    10 May 2013 15: 25
    And more photos and below yet)
  37. DAOSS
    +1
    10 May 2013 15: 27
    And more photos and below yet)
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. DAOSS
    0
    10 May 2013 15: 33
    And more photos and below yet)
  40. The comment was deleted.
  41. DAOSS
    0
    10 May 2013 15: 34
    And more photos and below yet)
  42. DAOSS
    0
    10 May 2013 15: 35
    And more photos and below yet)
  43. DAOSS
    0
    10 May 2013 15: 35
    And more photos and below yet)
  44. DAOSS
    0
    10 May 2013 15: 36
    And more photos and below yet)
  45. DAOSS
    0
    10 May 2013 15: 37
    And more photos and below yet)
  46. DAOSS
    0
    10 May 2013 15: 38
    Something like that. fellow
  47. DAOSS
    +2
    10 May 2013 15: 46
    Now for a little bonus. This photo, also taken in the water area of ​​the Plant named after 61 Kommunar
    You see 2 submerged tanks to which a submarine is moored, an analogue of our Ukrainian "Zaporozhye" and submerged in about 94-95 (I don't remember exactly), you see, they squeezed it to Russia.
    By the way, in the distance near the pier between two cranes, on August 6, 2012, a dry cargo ship "Vasily Shukshin" was drowned, which was brought in for cutting into metal. (We started cutting with bronze plugs ... DEER!)
  48. DAOSS
    0
    10 May 2013 15: 47
    Here is such a "friendship" of peoples ((
  49. +1
    11 May 2013 18: 07
    Very good news. I am glad that Russia and Ukraine are restoring cooperation, and this cooperation takes place in a very sensitive area - military equipment. We have a lot in common - traditions, history, workdays, design ideas, etc. This will allow us to get closer after some separation. It’s time, it’s time to restore friendship and cooperation, because we are brothers. No matter how hard we try to quarrel, but we will still be together. These first steps in military cooperation will allow us to overcome the crisis of cooling relations. It is also encouraging that Russia is systematically and confidently restoring its fleet and its army. Very good news.
  50. KononAV
    0
    19 May 2013 20: 51
    25 million even is very small, and no one will order anything at Ukrainian plants, everyone knows what reliable partners they are.
  51. Starlifter
    0
    22 May 2013 08: 06
    Well, why do they need this cruiser?! Worth rusting!

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"