The fleet is like the sailors

25 524 380
The fleet is like the sailors

About such a complex thing as fleet, we've talked a lot, and from the very beginning of our publication. Indeed, there was reason: if you look into history Not from the point of view of what the gentlemen Bolsheviks and communists invented, but from the point of view of historical truth, the picture that emerges is strikingly different from what we are accustomed to reading in textbooks and other literature.

The navy... At the beginning of the 20th century, it was the most important and only instrument for projecting power over long distances, as they would say today, without exception. Ships at that time were the most complex mechanisms for military (and other) purposes.




And for the fleet to function smoothly and effectively, personnel were needed. And personnel who were technically competent and suited for such service.

In some places this wasn't a problem, like in Great Britain, but in others it was. For example, in the Russian Empire.

This is not surprising, as the primary occupation of the Russian Empire's population was agriculture, which employed approximately 76% of its inhabitants. Next came manufacturing, crafts, and other trades, which employed approximately 10%, followed by civil service (4,6%) and trade (3,8%). In total, these four activities employed almost 94,5% of the population.

The 1897 census showed the breakdown of the Russian Empire's citizens by social class, and we'll need these figures for our analysis. So, 1,000 citizens of the Russian Empire consisted of:

- peasants – 771 people;
- townspeople – 107 people;
- foreigners – 66 people;
- Cossacks – 23 people;
- nobles – 15 people;
- merchants – 5 people;
- clergy – 5 people;
- others – 8 people.

By the way, if you look at the crew composition of the large ships of the Russian Imperial Navy, you will see something similar.

Let's take the battleship Slava, essentially the last effective ship of the Baltic Fleet.


According to the pre-war list of personnel for the Slava, its crew consisted of 28 officers, 21 conductors, and 829 enlisted men (non-commissioned officers and privates). Conductor is the highest rank among non-commissioned officers, equivalent to a warrant officer.

And here we must understand that not all representatives of the social classes and not all positions were suitable for service in the navy.


It's clear that officer positions were primarily filled by nobles, and only in rare cases did townspeople make it. But three-quarters of the country's population were peasants! That is, they were mostly illiterate, at best having completed one to three years of a rural parish school. And often even less.

Of course, there were many places on a ship where such people could be useful: gunners (carriers and loaders), deck crew, riggers, holdmen, stokers, orderlies, and so on. And, naturally, peasants did join the navy.

And this was considered very prestigious, by the way. "They don't take fools into the navy"—there was even a saying like that, and it had some basis in the fact that infantry with rifles and cavalry with sabers, pikes, and carbines didn't seem particularly difficult to master.

But the ship... with its mechanisms and instruments... yes, it was something incredibly complex for the average citizen of the Russian Empire to understand.

Even after the Russian Empire ended, until roughly the end of the 20th century, naval service was held in high regard precisely because it was challenging and required brains. No, any service requires brains, but naval service demanded them more than others.

Rangefinders. Radio operators. Artillerymen. Miners. Engineers (boiler, turbine, steering gear, etc.). Electricians. Hydraulics.


You can feel the smell of a factory or a plant here, not the steppe and manure. That is, again, representatives of the proletariat, aka the working class, aka the bourgeoisie from the census list.

The navy desperately needed technically competent specialists suited for naval training. Incidentally, students expelled from universities for various offenses often found themselves in the navy's lower ranks. However, unlike others, they had greater prospects because they were literate and educated, despite lacking a complete education.

For example, half of the mechanics on the battleship "Prince Potemkin-Tavrichesky" were graduates or students of the Kharkov Technological Institute. Although well-prepared in their specialty, graduates of technical institutes, although not true officers in the classical sense of the word and often not even holding officer ranks, nevertheless served.

In general, the Russian Navy was a kind of vacuum cleaner, which every year sucked in technically competent personnel from all over the country, and, it is worth noting, there was a catastrophic shortage of personnel from various naval academies and schools.

Oddly enough, this is precisely what led to the disintegration and collapse of the Russian Imperial Navy.

If in the land army, where illiterate and, frankly, downtrodden peasants predominated, all the efforts of the Bronstein-Trotsky gang's agitators resulted in the army simply ceasing to exist, and the soldiers wandering "in search of land" back to their homelands. And this, it must be said, was quite good for the army, because many non-commissioned officers and even officers survived, who later became the backbone of the Red Army.


It's no secret that the generals and marshals of the Great Patriotic War emerged from the non-commissioned officers and officers of the First World War. Shaposhnikov, Timoshenko, Budyonny, Zhukov, Rokossovsky, Tolbukhin, Vasilevsky, Malinovsky, Yegorov, Khoranov, Panfilov, Zakharov, Shumilov, Eremenko, Konev, Govorov, and Bagramyan. The last three didn't have time to take part in the battles of the First World War, but Govorov and Konev were drafted, and Bagramyan was a volunteer.

What would have happened if the "revolutionary-minded soldiers" (that's not an insult, but rather akin to the "revolutionary-minded sailors," who were responsible for many bloody deeds) had raised bayonets or shot down the brave non-commissioned officers and officers? Could that have happened? Surely.

In fact, that's exactly what happened in the navies. The sailors' lynching in Sevastopol in December 1917 – February 1918 resulted in the murder of approximately 700 officers and non-commissioned officers of the Black Sea Fleet. This, incidentally, represented approximately 14–15 fully equipped first-class battleships.


But it's difficult to estimate what the sailors did in Sevastopol in 1920-21 after Sevastopol became "Red." According to official Soviet sources, approximately 12,000 people were killed in Sevastopol from November 1920 to May 1921, without due process or trial. True, not all of them were naval officers, but many writers noted that the officer corps was exterminated with particular brutality.

According to slightly different data, based on the processing of archival records, it was concluded that up to 29,000 people were killed in Sevastopol and Balaklava.

The Black Sea Fleet practically ceased to exist, as there were no trained personnel left capable of leading and effectively carrying out combat missions.

Admiral Alexander Kolchak
Vice-Admiral Mikhail Bakhirev
Vice Admiral Stanislav Vasilkovsky
Vice-Admiral Vladimir Girs
Rear Admiral Alexander Alexandrov
Rear Admiral Sergei Burley
Rear Admiral Mikhail Veselkin III
Rear Admiral Sergei Zarubaev
Rear Admiral Alexander Zeleny
Rear Admiral Sergei Ivanov

Of course, the list is far from complete, but what exists is more than enough. To the dozen admirals killed, there are twice as many who decided to live a little longer, their graves scattered across the globe, from Belgium to the United States.

Next come the captains of the first and second ranks, and their numbers now number in the dozens. Plus hundreds of their successors, captain-lieutenants, lieutenants, and warrant officers. Both those killed and those who decided that life abroad was better than death at home.

The fate of Captain First Rank Alexander Shchastny, a brilliant officer and a clever organizer, was particularly revealing. It was Shchastny who saved nearly 200 Baltic Fleet ships from the Germans, negotiated with the Finns, and withdrew the ships, which the Germans were supposed to receive under the treacherous Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, to Kronstadt.


The "reward" was a charge of treason and execution. People's Commissar Trotsky was very displeased that someone could carry sacks but not deliver speeches. So Trotsky organized a trial in which he testified as the only witness. Please evaluate the wording of the charges:

Shchastny, by performing a heroic feat, thereby created popularity for himself, intending to subsequently use it against the Soviet government.

Then we can also remember the Battle of Moonzund, but we should remember it not from the “creations” of Valentin Pikul, but from more reliable sources.

In the Battle of Moonsund, revolutionary sailors achieved a glorious victory over the fleet of Imperial Germany, thwarting the insidious plot of international reaction and the Russian bourgeoisie to destroy the revolution, and thereby contributing to the successful victory of the proletariat in the October armed uprising. The feat of the Baltic sailors in the Battle of Moonsund was an act of revolutionary warfare.
Military History Journal, 1962.

In reality, the Germans captured the archipelago at a very low cost: five German minesweepers and a pair of torpedo boats compared to the destroyer Grom and the battleship Slava—that's nothing. Plus, they captured a large number of artillery pieces and machine guns, which the "revolutionary soldiers" abandoned as they fled at a speed that would have done credit to athletes of the time.

Well, Vice-Admiral Mikhail Bakhirev, who did everything possible in such conditions, was awarded the death penalty.


In short, virtually no one in the navy survived until the repression of "old" military specialists, which took place in 1932–1933. The old specialists disappeared sometime around 1923–1924.

And a very interesting situation emerged: the navy, a decent one even by its standards, existed. But the naval command and leadership were lacking.

It may be a seditious thought, but the Soviet leadership never had a clear understanding of how to use the navy. That was until 1956, for example, when Admiral Sergei Gorshkov assumed the reins of power. By some divine providence, Gorshkov had a clear understanding of what the navy should be like and what it should be used for. And he created this navy, the remnants of which we are now left to wear out.


But as for the Great Patriotic War, yes, the country's navy presented not just a sad spectacle—it was downright mind-boggling. Utterly stupid and useless operations claimed the lives of hundreds of sailors and ships, which the enemy sank as easily as if they were made of cardboard.

The Baltic Fleet, which sat in Kronstadt throughout the war and served as targets for the Luftwaffe, and the Black Sea Fleet, where the admirals, instead of realizing their complete superiority in ships, began to destroy them in completely unplanned operations, as a result of which Stalin ordered ambitions to be curbed and ships larger than destroyers not to be touched at all.

Incidentally, Hitler had similar problems on the other side, which also resulted in a ban on the use of large ships. And while the loss of the Bismarck can be called an idiotic coincidence, the loss of the Scharnhorst is absolutely akin to the loss of the Kharkov in the Black Sea for the Black Sea Fleet.

The navy's main problem was that it found itself held hostage by the ground forces, an appendage handed over to strategic areas or even fronts. This is sad, but what could be done if the navy lacked competent naval commanders?

There were exceptions, however, and one such exception, Admiral Ivan Isakov, commanded the land front quite well due to the incompetence of our generals—a case in history. Isakov himself was an exception, however, in Stalin's words: "...a true admiral of the fleet, Comrade Isakov. A clever fellow, without a leg, but with a brain."


But the main problem was the complete incompetence of the naval commanders, who simply lacked the proper training, which they tried to replace with service zeal and party loyalty.

That is, all mistakes and miscalculations were attributed to the machinations of “enemies of the people,” who were furiously sought out and…

What can we say if, of the 16 fleet commanders-in-chief (no matter what the Navy was called in different years), nine (nine) were executed between 1917 and 1991. That's more than half!

Moreover, the last executed People's Commissar of the Navy, Frinovsky, was actually a special agent and had NO idea about naval affairs. But he didn't lead for long and didn't have time to cause any serious trouble, although he could have.

Between 1937 and 1939, four People's Commissars of the Navy were arrested and executed. In total, between 1937 and 1938, nearly 3700 commanders and political officers were dismissed from the Soviet Navy, most of them arrested. And this compared to a 19,500-strong force in 1938—that's almost one in five.

And so, here's the bottom line: the purge of the Navy's ranks of disguised enemies, saboteurs, and those "infected with bourgeois ideology" led to the training of replacements for officers with any experience in the First World War, drawn from among the Party's core, socially aligned with the Bolsheviks. This was accomplished through a very simple method: young men were recruited (remember those phrases: "Komsomol member, board a plane" and "youth for the navy"?), the main selection criterion being Party membership, and sent to some training courses. For example, the "parallel" classes at the Frunze Naval School.

Clearly, these people were very poorly educated, but ideologically committed to the party line. And then, down the line: once representatives of the poorly educated classes began to become commanders, this immediately led to a sharp decline in the overall intellectual level of the command staff of the Workers' and Peasants' Red Fleet compared to the officers of the Russian Imperial Navy.

An example here is Pavel Dybenko, the first People's Commissar for Naval Affairs of the Russian Federation, who became famous, however, not for his naval affairs, but for his executioner's actions in the Tambov province, Crimea in 1920, and Kronstadt, where he was very successful in suppressing.

So, Comrade Dybenko, even if you examine his biography under a microscope, reveals three (3) classes at the Novozybkov municipal three-year school, and before that, some kind of "public school." He also completed the junior courses (six months) of the Red Army Military Academy in 1921, and then the senior courses (also six months) in 1922.

One can imagine the level of "training" of Comrade Dybenko. No, he made a truly remarkable executioner in Tambov, Sevastopol, and Kronstadt, but in all other respects, Dybenko showed no signs of success.

Or Grigory Negoda, the same one whose actions sank the detachment of ships consisting of the submarine leader Kharkov and the destroyers Sposobny and Beshposhchadny. He graduated from the underwater sector of the M. V. Frunze Naval School in 1936 and the Naval Command Courses, Ship Commanders' Department, in May 1941.


Leader of the destroyers "Kharkov"

Before the Revolution, the Naval Corps primarily admitted individuals of noble descent, who were often already well-educated at home, and who had already established families of naval officers. The difference, as you can imagine, between the level of education provided to nobles at home in the Naval Corps and the Navy command courses for cadets, who were often illiterate just the day before, is more than significant.

It is not surprising that in the period from 1920 to 1930, the main work of all military educational institutions was mainly reduced to the fight against illiteracy among cadets.

Now let's just think for a second about how effective a ship's commander Negoda really was, given his Soviet training. The question here isn't even how diligent a student Negoda was, but who his instructors were. But everyone understood that the supernatural shouldn't be expected of Negoda. And so, Negoda didn't even face trial, but rather spent the rest of the war languishing on large ships moored to piers and as commander of ships under construction.

Ultimately, the ineffectiveness of the navy's command staff explains its ineffectiveness. But could anyone expect effectiveness from a former illiterate cadet with a Communist Party card?

Did the Kremlin understand this? Yes. And they didn't rely on the navy.

However, those on the other side were also well aware and aware of the state of affairs in the fleets. Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz, in his book "German Naval Strategy in the Second World War," wrote about the operations in the Black Sea:

The Russian fleet, although superior in numbers to ours (in the Black Sea, the fleet had one battleship, five cruisers, three leaders, 13 destroyers, four gunboats, 12 patrol ships, 15 minesweepers, 21 small hunters, 81 torpedo boats, and 44 submarines), did not undertake large-scale operations. As a result of the Russians' defensive mentality, as well as the successful actions of the German and Italian fleets, the initiative, despite its numerical inferiority, remained firmly in the hands of the German fleet. The likelihood of a Russian attack on our convoys and tankers was minimal.

The "Italian and German" fleet consisted of 10 submarines: five German and five Italian, plus a dozen Italian torpedo boats. The Romanian fleet: three destroyers, two minelayers, and one submarine. These were the forces opposing the Black Sea Fleet. Funny? No, it makes you want to cry.

So why didn't the fleet conduct a single sensible operation in the Black Sea during the entire war? Why did the Germans and Romanians calmly withdraw from Crimea, while the entire might of the Black Sea Fleet was unable to stop them? And this despite the fact that, unlike the Baltic, the Black Sea wasn't a minefield of dumplings.

The lack of preparation and outright illiteracy of the commanders, who were incapable of planning and conducting a combat operation, or calculating escape routes and options, led to the fleet, which was 90% engaged in firing somewhere along the shore, without radar or correction, “supporting” the landing of troops, losing a cruiser, 3 destroyer leaders, 9 destroyers, and half (25 out of 56) of its submarines.


In the Baltic, things were much the same; the entire war was spent trying to break through the barriers and gain operational space. Warship losses after 1941 virtually disappeared, but those lost to mines during the retreat from the Baltic and to Luftwaffe bombs were more than impressive. The Marat was crippled, the cruiser Maxim Gorky was severely damaged, and the leader Minsk and 22 destroyers were sunk.

But why then did the Northern Fleet, which can hardly even be called a fleet (as of June 22, 1941, it consisted of seven destroyers, 15 submarines, seven patrol ships, one minelayer, two minesweepers, and 14 patrol boats), demonstrate such a much greater effectiveness? What was the difference? The absence of an enemy as such. Submarines and torpedo bombers were primarily engaged in convoy attacks within a rather narrow range, although, unlike other fleets, the Northern Fleet did engage surface ships on more than one occasion.

Did personnel decide everything everywhere? Depends on the type of personnel.

Back then, at the dawn of the USSR, the emphasis was on party loyalty with minimal preparation. We know what that resulted in.

We know how "revolutionary soldiers" abandoned their positions and retreated, handing over to the enemy the lands they were supposed to defend. We know how "revolutionary sailors" sank into the satanism of violence, murdering officers, their families, and ordinary people with no connection to the navy.

One can draw analogies with organisms that are not very gifted in intelligence and that do approximately the same thing not far from me, in the West.

History generally has a tendency to repeat itself.

Before the war, at a meeting, Flag Officer 1st Rank I.S. Isakov noted in his report:

Naval training for commanders is absolutely useless. A graduate of the academy at this age is a propagandist, a theorist, anything but a sailor. He's afraid of the weather, gets seasick, and he makes such accidents that he runs the ship aground in calm waters, in broad daylight.

The head of the department of naval educational institutions of the Political Directorate of the Red Navy, Brigade Commissar A. N. Filaretov, in a report in 1939:

The training system for submarine fleet personnel has major shortcomings and does not fully meet the requirements for submarine specialists.

Moreover, in addition to purely professional shortcomings, the brigade commissar mentioned “low levels of discipline”!

Yeah, right, a nice uniform, rations, the prospect of promotion... Well, life's a success! I sit through the required lectures, and after a few tries, I pass the exams, and voila—I've got the papers, ready to start giving orders!

But we shouldn't so blanketly blame those who greeted the outbreak of war on ships. In fact, by June 22, 1941, too many negative factors had converged in the navy: the removal of commanders with experience in the Tsarist navy and combat experience in the First World War, the insufficient level of military equipment inherited from that era, the low level of education of those who became Red commanders, and the lack of a coherent military doctrine for naval operations in a modern war.

All of this combined led to enormous losses and a weakened naval combat capability, especially a lack of understanding of how the fleet should operate. Unfortunately, anyone who could have laid out the naval doctrine in terms of strategy and tactics was completely unable to participate.

The main blame, of course, lay with the state authorities, who were unwilling or unable to reach an agreement with the former tsarist specialists. Moreover, the Bolsheviks made every effort to eradicate as much as possible those who did not dare flee abroad and wanted to serve their country.

This raises the question: what made Shchastny different from Isakov? The captain of the first rank was simply unlucky: he accomplished a feat worthy of eternal memory. And in doing so, he exposed himself to Trotsky, who, of course, was not pleased by the arrival of a man clearly smarter and more professionally prepared than himself. In the sense that he was a professional sailor, not a public chatterbox. That's why Shchastny was executed, while Isakov, being significantly younger and not holding such a high position, was able to survive this time and contribute to the country and the navy. He was lucky.

Why, in the end, do I want to repeat the thesis that history tends to repeat itself?

Because today, the same thing is clearly evident: a complete lack of understanding of why Russia needs a navy, and therefore it's unclear what ships should be built and how to use them. The hesitation is very noticeable, even to the naked eye.

It certainly doesn't look as sad as Trump's battleship show, but we'll talk about it a little later, since our own is more important.

Regarding personnel training... Of course, today everything is somewhat different from what happened 100 years ago, but we should not forget the exodus from the Armed Forces, and the mass exodus in 2022 of those who joined the army and navy for preferential mortgages and early retirement.

History is generally necessary to avoid repeating mistakes. A party card and a questionnaire are good, but they are no substitute for experience and a track record.

The Soviet Navy lost the Great Patriotic War soundly, but afterward it became a fleet that was looked up to and respected. We had ships, and the ships had crews. Admiral Gorshkov's fleet represented the heyday of the Soviet Navy, and it would truly be worth repeating. Not for the most foolish "flag shows," but for the genuine ability to repel any attack. Especially in the Pacific.

This is a historical perspective that's still relevant 100 years later. Education in our country today is slightly better than it was in 1925, but not by much, considering how complicated everything has become. You can build all the nuclear-powered destroyers and aircraft carriers you want, arm them with hypersonic weapons, lasers, blasters, and railguns, but if the crews are staffed by those perpetually sleepy Unified State Exam (USE) victims, even those with spelling mistakes, it will be about as effective as it was a century ago.

A good goal is to remember the mistakes of the past and not repeat them in the future. And then the future will come true.
380 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +29
    26 December 2025 03: 14
    Why did I even read this? It was immediately clear who the author was!
    1. +20
      26 December 2025 08: 47
      I smell that very horse the gentlemen are finishing off in the ravine... Author, dear man, are you aware that you've spat at the readers of your opus? We are the majority here, whose ancestors rose from the depths (a vile comparison for the gentlemen) thanks to the Great October Socialist Revolution...
      1. +11
        26 December 2025 13: 04
        Quote: Civil
        Are you aware that you spat at the readers of your opus?

        To understand this, one must become human...
        A mediocre opus with the same title.
      2. +13
        26 December 2025 16: 04
        Quote: Civil
        I smell that very horse the gentlemen are finishing off in the ravine... Author, dear man, are you aware that you've spat at the readers of your opus? We are the majority here, whose ancestors rose from the depths (a vile comparison for the gentlemen) thanks to the Great October Socialist Revolution...

        And now, anti-Soviet agitation is no longer a crime. The Russian Supreme Court has issued an important historical and legal ruling. Anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda are no longer recognized as acts posing a public danger.
        The court, chaired by Igor Krasnov, ruled that anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda were not acts that posed a public danger.

        This means that all citizens of the USSR convicted under this article are now subject to rehabilitation, even if the facts stated in their cases were true.
        So, the Olgovichi, Roma, and others like them have complete freedom. Even though the Russian Federation has declared itself the successor to the USSR...
      3. 0
        3 January 2026 08: 45
        I'll tell you more - we all come from a people who didn't know the wheel)).
    2. +12
      26 December 2025 09: 41
      Quote: Traveler 63
      Why did I even read this? It was immediately clear who the author was!

      Another venting of bile. The author is quite good at it, and has his own grateful consumers. Why not unleash it? It's so easy to say everything is bad, and then, in response to the eternal question "What to do?", to heap all the divine punishment on those "who are to blame." One can only hope that those who are determined not to slap everyone in the face, not to look for someone to blame, but to focus on finding a way out of this difficult situation, are not sitting on the VO, but are actually doing something. The last thing one should do is beat oneself up for mistakes during a game – and I say this as a chess player.
      1. +2
        26 December 2025 13: 10
        Quote from cpls22
        Another outpouring of bile. The author is quite good at it, and has his own grateful consumers. Why not unleash it? It's so easy to say everything is bad, and then, in response to the eternal question "What to do?", to heap all the divine punishment on those "who are to blame." One can only hope that people who are determined not to slap people in the face left and right, not to look for someone to blame, but to focus on finding a way out of this difficult situation, are not sitting on the sidelines, but are actually doing something.

        The less a person understands, the more "smart" they seem. You can throw mud at everything, but a pig will always find mud.
        If you haven't received a specialized education or at least five years of experience, what right do you have to call yourself an expert? Comparing technical specifications doesn't require much intelligence...
        1. +6
          26 December 2025 16: 06
          Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
          Comparing technical specifications doesn't require much intelligence...

          So, even this is done correctly, but the author almost always fails to do it.
      2. +11
        26 December 2025 17: 01
        One can only hope that people who are determined not to slap faces left and right, not to look for the guilty, but to work hard to get out of a difficult situation, are not sitting on the VO, but are doing something

        Of course, one can and should hope, but judging by what's been happening in the Black Sea Fleet for a long time, there are no positive results from the "focused work of those working to resolve the difficult situation and get things done." These people can't even organize reliable defense and protection of the Black Sea Fleet bases, let alone fundamentally change the current situation, seize the initiative, and control the entire Black Sea. Perhaps these people are doing the wrong thing, or are they simply not the right people to do it?
        1. -7
          26 December 2025 17: 19
          Quote: wladimirjankov
          These people can't even organize reliable defense and protection of the Black Sea Fleet bases, let alone fundamentally change the current situation, seize the initiative, and control the entire Black Sea. Perhaps these people are doing the wrong thing, or are they simply not the right people to do it?

          Are you sure it depends only on our people? In any confrontation, the situation depends on two forces, and it's strange to demand absolute immunity for the forces involved in the conflict. Do you think you could have done better? Is there any basis for that? Do you have all the information? Bringing up the topic of people's responsibility makes you look like a bureaucrat, not an expert. So, who's to say?
          1. +8
            26 December 2025 18: 49
            Are you sure that this depends only on our people?

            And who, may I ask, determines the state of affairs in our Black Sea Fleet and in our country? Aliens, perhaps?
            Bringing up the topic of people's responsibility makes you look like a bureaucrat, not a professional. So, who's talking?

            What does all this hype have to do with it? We're talking about the indisputable and fundamental rule that everyone should do their job and be responsible for it. And this activity should be judged solely by its results. And the results are always there, visible to anyone with an open mind.
            1. -7
              26 December 2025 19: 18
              Quote: wladimirjankov

              And who, may I ask, determines the state of affairs in our Black Sea Fleet and in our country? And this activity should be judged solely by its results. And those results are always there, visible to anyone with an open mind.

              In a confrontation, the state of affairs depends on the opponent's efforts, not just your own, no matter how much you might want that to be the case. And not everyone can judge the effectiveness of those efforts. Everyone sees defeats, but no one sees successes. It's like judging the game's performance by the score. In short, "I don't care how you do it, I want results" is typical of a dumb boss, not a specialist, and you've followed exactly this pattern twice.
        2. +5
          27 December 2025 00: 21
          concentrated work of people on getting out of a difficult situation and doing business
          Is there any work there? Apparently, some combat units there went into temporary detention after September 2022 and are pretending it's 2013, there's no war, everything's fine.
          Even the ships in Odessa are being hit not by anti-ship missiles, but by regular geraniums. And unmanned boats will be deployed to the NBC defense forces, not the navy. fool
      3. 0
        3 January 2026 08: 48
        I wonder if that article (I don't know the author) claiming that the current Black Sea Fleet commander banned the installation of anti-drone weapons on ships because they aren't mandated by the regulations is also a lie? And if not, doesn't that fact outweigh everything you dislike about that article?
        1. +1
          3 January 2026 11: 37
          I don't know where you read this, but since this "fact" is never mentioned anywhere else, it's most likely fake. Otherwise, it would have become a meme long ago.
          Notice how many downvotes I received specifically under the remark about bureaucratic behavior in angry posts about responsibility for the Navy's dire situation. It feels like the crowd here is made up of retired officials, not experts. NMV, the problem in the country is that there aren't enough experts, and they're ignored, relying instead on the miracles of administrative management. It's like forgetting about oats, relying only on the reins.
          1. 0
            6 January 2026 23: 27
            I've read about this strange decision a couple of times. Definitely once in this publication. Otherwise, this situation is the same in any industry. There's no continuity between generations of workers, like there was in the USSR. Now, the snot-nosed sons of oligarchs often run strategic enterprises.
    3. +7
      26 December 2025 09: 59
      Quote: Traveler 63
      Why did I read this?

      Yeah, "the buns were crunching, crunching," ah, "the land of the lords," what "we've lost"... Well, let the author not worry so much, the gentlemen have already appeared, all that's left is the "small matter" - the restoration of absolute monarchy...
      1. +14
        26 December 2025 10: 22
        Yeah. Lost the country. How could they have driven the officers so far into hating the rank and file sailors that they then killed them like dogs? They obviously deserved it. For some reason, the crunchy bakers are keeping quiet about the brutal treatment of the sailors in the navy.
        1. 0
          3 January 2026 08: 53
          Brutality is still present today, and, as I conclude, even on the front lines. But we must keep in mind the effect of unpunished lawlessness, the "red wheel," the bestial mob. People were killed simply because someone else's life, by their standards, had turned out better.
    4. +5
      26 December 2025 11: 00
      A navy's power isn't measured by the number of ships it has. Especially not that of a land power like the USSR, Russia, and China. Former maritime powers like Great Britain, Spain, and Japan boast centuries-old historical traditions, not to mention a maritime culture.

      The naval might of the new contenders, which was the USSR and now the PRC, is measured by victories. In this sense, it's ridiculous to talk about the might of the Soviet Navy or the Chinese Navy. Both the Soviet and Russian submarine fleets are components of the strategic nuclear forces, and this floating component has little to do with the navy—except perhaps to ensure the fulfillment of strategic objectives.

      So, let's not be offended by the Author, nor wax nostalgic about the unproven and (thankfully) untested greatness of the Soviet Navy, and let's not even mention the Cuban Missile Crisis. These facts in no way diminish the heroism of sailors in WWII, nor do they discredit the Navy or the USSR.

      The author's bitter truth is better than sweet lies like "the USSR was a great naval power... And Buran is proof of the USSR's victory in space" (in the adjacent article). Moiseyev is a submariner precisely because the Navy has only one mission: strategic nuclear forces. Everything else is just a matter of fact, a strengthened air defense system is beyond Senka's reach. The Navy has no mission to territorially defend the Far East from Japan—all this is ridiculous.

      And don't even mention the marines in the Northeast Military District or Deineka's "Defense of Sevastopol"—yes, that's all Russian, land-based, where the Russian Army has no wind behind it. And it's right that they stopped repairing the Kuznetsov and Petr—they're Soviet-era albatrosses, weights around the Navy's neck due to their expense and lack of doctrine. Prestige is earned, not built. That's why the PLA Navy has zero prestige.

      Happy New Year 2026 - health, success, prosperity, victories, and happiness, colleagues!
      1. +8
        26 December 2025 13: 31
        Quote: Mikhail Drabkin
        A navy's power isn't measured by the number of ships it has. Especially not that of a land power like the USSR, Russia, and China, including those in the PRC.

        A profound misconception. The USSR/Russia is a landmass only in the sense of being on land... Austria is a landmass, as are Hungary and the like... I see no point in commenting on geography; it's a shame you can't see that.

        Quote: Michael Drabkin

        The naval might of the new contenders, which was the USSR and now the PRC, is measured by victories. In this sense, it's ridiculous to talk about the might of the Soviet Navy or the Chinese Navy. Both the Soviet and Russian submarine fleets are components of the strategic nuclear forces, and this floating component has little to do with the navy—except perhaps to ensure the fulfillment of strategic objectives.

        The thesis is erroneous, even false.
        Victory is a derivative of war. Claims to naval power are determined by the strength of the fleet, and strength is a derivative of the quantity and quality of forces and assets—that is, ships and their weapons, salvos, and so on, without going into detail. To call the USSR's submarine fleet a "navy" is to misunderstand, pardon me.

        Whether or not to defend the author is, of course, a personal matter. But understanding what's being said isn't forbidden either... Education, experience, and professional tenure—these are the criteria for the term "expert." I'm deeply convinced that when a mechanic criticizes a mathematician for his mathematics, it seems somewhat unconvincing... People call such "experts" "mechanic-gynecologists" because they understand neither their own nor anyone else's business.

        The author produces a lot of informative material, often with an accusatory and reproachful slant, but I haven't yet had the chance to read anything original—all these "scoldings" of those above and below have long been scattered successfully in both maritime literature and in journalistic publications. People enjoy criticizing their superiors, and that's what they exploit...


        Quote: Mikhail Drabkin
        The fleet does not have the task of territorially protecting the Far East from Japan - this is all ridiculous to listen to.

        What document did I read that in? Right, it's just empty talk. The public loves such statements... It's a shame that with generally sound input, the output is such shady conclusions...
        I join you in congratulating you on the upcoming New Year!
        1. +4
          26 December 2025 19: 42
          Austria is a landlocked country, Hungary and others like them...
          In fact, Austria-Hungary had a fleet, and a very decent one, for the Mediterranean.
          Hello Vasily!
          1. +2
            26 December 2025 20: 05
            Hello Anton!
            Hmm, I wrote about Austria and Hungary separately... are they already gone? Well, I didn't know, sorry. drinks
            Happy New Year!
            1. -1
              26 December 2025 20: 21
              To avoid any questions, I should have written about Switzerland. tongue laughing
              Happy New Year, Vasily! I hope to see you next year...
              1. +2
                26 December 2025 20: 27
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                To avoid any questions, I should have written about Switzerland.

                Got it, I'll talk about Tibet... I've checked - there is no sea and never was!
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                I hope to see you next year...

                Mutually drinks
                1. -1
                  26 December 2025 20: 31
                  Got it, I'll talk about Tibet... I've checked - there is no sea and never was!
                  You clearly haven't watched the movie "Waterworld"! laughing
                  1. +4
                    26 December 2025 20: 36
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    You clearly haven't watched the movie "Waterworld"!

                    It was a long time ago... would the Gobi Desert do?
                    And on the essence of the article:
                    I got the impression that the text was simply brimming with hatred for the navy as an institution and for its people, officers and sailors. It was as if something pent-up over a long period of time had exploded into hatred.
                    Disgusting reading, frankly speaking... disgusting to read...
                    am
                    1. +1
                      26 December 2025 21: 02
                      would the Gobi Desert be suitable?
                      That'll do. As far as I understand the history of geophysics, there hasn't been a sea there since the Cretaceous period, and maybe even earlier.
                      I got the impression that the text was simply brimming with hatred for the navy as an institution and for its people, officers and sailors. It was as if something pent-up over a long period of time had exploded into hatred.
                      There's no hatred. It's just that online journalism and strong feelings are incompatible.
                      By the way, I agree with Roman that the Bolsheviks practically destroyed the naval officer corps.
                      1. +3
                        26 December 2025 21: 17
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        That'll do. As far as I understand the history of geophysics, there hasn't been a sea there since the Cretaceous period, and maybe even earlier.

                        what
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        There's no hatred. It's just that online journalism and strong feelings are incompatible.

                        We are simple people - what I see, I sing... like the Chukchi in the tundra wassat
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        By the way, I agree with Roman that the Bolsheviks practically destroyed the naval officer corps.

                        In essence, no one disputes this. But it wasn't Skomorokhov who brought us this knowledge...
                        The Bolsheviks first destroyed and then created a new generation of commanders. This is neither good nor bad – that's just how it is. I won't go into detail, but that's essentially it.
                        The navy is a system with enormous inertia, unlike anything found anywhere else in the military. This is because the crew can never be completely replaced; the bearers of the past always remain, and the transmission of traditions occurs constantly and en masse.
                        Therefore, the traditions of the Russian Imperial Navy were preserved under both the Bolsheviks and their antipodes, and even the absolutely monstrous experiments of the 2000s and 2010s could not eradicate these traditions, although they did introduce others, much worse... hi
                      2. +1
                        26 December 2025 21: 29
                        The Bolsheviks first destroyed and then created another generation of commanders.
                        I'm just so surprised! Name the admirals who could have led a squadron into battle (successfully!) if the "Soviet Union" project had been completed?
                      3. +1
                        26 December 2025 21: 48
                        Well, there is such a paradox...
                        There was a smart Admiral Amelko at the Pacific Fleet, he deserves some more head scratching...
                        Unfortunately, I'm a bit out of shape right now. The level of a unit commander can still be described, but a formation is more difficult, but the theater fleet is a wreck... a rare commodity, yes...
                        The crews are also unevenly prepared; 90% depends on the ship's commander, and the rest depends on the brigade commander/division commander...
                        Actually, the topic is complex; you'll have to open a bottle of good whiskey and sit with your interlocutor for about three or four hours. drinks
                      4. +2
                        26 December 2025 22: 05
                        Actually, the topic is complex; you'll have to open a bottle of good whiskey and sit with your interlocutor for about three or four hours.
                        It will be interesting to see the results of the "get-togethers".
                      5. +1
                        26 December 2025 22: 09
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        It will be interesting to see the results of the "get-togethers".

                        For scientific purposes only...
                        So far no one has complained drinks
                      6. +1
                        26 December 2025 22: 16
                        Who's against it? Not me! drinks
                      7. +1
                        26 December 2025 21: 37
                        We are simple people - what I see, I sing... like the Chukchi in the tundra
                        Akyn singers, this is about Central Asia.
                      8. +1
                        26 December 2025 21: 50
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        Akyn singers, this is about Central Asia.

                        No, my dear, there are also Tuvans, Chukchi, Evenks... I heard and saw it myself... in short, where there is a monotonous poem, there is "akyn"! laughing
                    2. +1
                      27 December 2025 21: 12
                      Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
                      Disgusting reading, frankly speaking... disgusting to read...

                      You find it disgusting to read, but have nothing substantive to say in response. Alas...
                      Women's emotions - and nothing more.
                2. 0
                  3 January 2026 09: 04
                  What does it say at the beginning of the Scripture?..))
              2. +2
                28 December 2025 00: 38
                To avoid any questions, I should have written about Switzerland.

                Switzerland, like Austria-Hungary, also had a navy at one time.
                Tensions in Europe were growing, first the First World War and then the Second World War pushed the Swiss government to decide that a fleet on the border lakes would not hurt after all.

                By 1942, five naval detachments had been created, comprising ten Type 41 patrol boats armed with anti-tank rifles (initially 20mm Solothurn S18/100, later 24mm Tankbüchse 41) and M2 Browning machine guns. Two motorboat detachments on Lake Lucerne were an important part of the Nasa maritime defense system. The boat detachments worked closely with the naval detachments of the pontoon forces, whose primary missions were coastal defense and maritime transport.

                By 1947, Switzerland already had thirteen motorboat detachments, which were combined into the 1st Motorboat Company (13 platoons on nine lakes). The company's planned strength was 13 officers, 37 non-commissioned officers, and 280 soldiers. The fleet included 55 motorboats, of which nine to eleven were patrol boats.

                During the Cold War, the Swiss "naval forces" continued to exist, expanding, reequipping, and reaching their peak. As part of the 61st Army, the motorized troops were divided into three companies (Lake Constance: Mot Boot Kp III/47, Lake Maggiore and Lake Lugano: Cp motoscafi V/49, Lake Geneva: Mot Boot Kp V/50), which were assigned to the respective border brigades. Administratively, they were subordinated to the fortress troops. In 1980, the Type 41 boats were replaced by ten newly developed P-80 patrol boats.

                Swiss ships also sailed the sea.
                1. +2
                  28 December 2025 00: 49
                  Swiss ships also sailed the sea.
                  I don't mind, let them go. I rowed the White Sea myself. But that doesn't make me a sailor.
                  1. +2
                    28 December 2025 01: 03
                    I also rowed across the White Sea.

                    Have you ever had this? The Swiss did too :))
          2. 0
            26 December 2025 22: 09
            Austria-Hungary had access to the Adriatic Sea and naval bases in Trieste and Pola. But after its dissolution, these territories were ceded to Italy and Yugoslavia (or more precisely, Slovenia). However, access to the sea does not make a country a naval power. From the Russian Empire (Peter the Great) to modern Russia, we were never a maritime power. There were isolated victories (over the Turks and Swedes), but the navy never achieved any major successes, even at the tactical level.
      2. +6
        26 December 2025 19: 35
        Japan has centuries-old historical traditions, not to mention a maritime culture.
        Yeah, Japan especially has a centuries-old naval culture.
      3. +2
        26 December 2025 20: 57
        American big troughs are much older than Kuznetsov and Petr. And on the move...
      4. +5
        26 December 2025 21: 50
        Of Russia's 60-kilometer border, 40 are maritime. Even for its protection and defense, the Soviet Union's MChPV was insufficient, much less the so-called "Coastal Guard." And if we're talking about "Does Russia need a navy?" the answer is simple: it absolutely must have one!
        1. +5
          26 December 2025 22: 14
          + 100500!
          The sacramental phrase of Peter the Great:
          "A state that has only one land army has one hand, but one that has a navy has both hands."
          You just need to make them learn it at school... maybe then there won't be such stupidities... soldier
        2. 0
          27 December 2025 09: 49
          The thing is not the length of the coastline (this is an indirect indicator of the enemy’s capabilities for landing operations on our coast), but the controlled territory of the globe.
          The Union (to what extent?!) State controls 3,5% of its surface. The United States and NATO control 67%, and if Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, and AUKUS are included, 75%. The situation around Venezuela is a clear example.
        3. -1
          27 December 2025 21: 15
          The MChPV couldn't even cope with sea poachers, much less protect anything there...
          Or do you need to be reminded of the episode with "Darring" on the Black Sea regarding the demonstrative border breach?
          1. 0
            28 December 2025 06: 46
            The MChPV was just dealing with poachers. But the so-called "Coast Guard" had already conceded goals, although it was not their fault.
    5. -2
      26 December 2025 23: 02
      Well, then don't read it... you'll just disappear from the airwaves like Galkin and Pugacheva. Otherwise, we'll "read" it and complain to each other...
      1. +2
        27 December 2025 02: 29
        Quote: sub307
        Well, then don't read it... you'll just disappear from the airwaves like Galkin and Pugacheva. Otherwise, we'll "read" it and complain to each other...

        Wow! So you think we should only read the rag? Never mind that even in the USSR, magazines like "Foreign Military Review" and other more institutional ones were published. So, we've read it and we'll keep reading! And we won't complain, we'll just take this information on board!
    6. 0
      26 December 2025 23: 14
      The article is biased, to put it mildly. The author somehow forgot how the Japanese defeated the well-trained and advanced British and Americans in 41-42. The comparison between the destruction of the Scharnhorst and Negoda's detachment is simply brilliant. The only thing they have in common is that both had ships.
    7. +1
      28 December 2025 00: 14
      Quote: Traveler 63
      And why did I read this?

      Why? To understand how stupid everyone was, and how smart the author was.
      The author describes the Bolsheviks as being the dumbest of the dumb. But for some reason, not understanding the importance of a navy for the state, they built one despite the lack of skilled shipbuilders. And the state was built not thanks to the Bolsheviks, but in spite of them. If a state is like a mother, then the author spat right at her, even though he was born in that state. I'd say more, but the moderator would consider it an insult, even though that would be "calling a spade a spade."
      Why is the author allowed to insult me, because by insulting my Motherland, the USSR, he insults me, but I am not allowed to respond to him?
      And one more thing: did the author ever consider why the sailors were so cruel to their officers? Or perhaps it was a kind of "gratitude" for the officers' treatment of their sailors?
      1. 0
        28 December 2025 01: 35
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Quote: Traveler 63
        And why did I read this?

        Why? To understand how stupid everyone was, and how smart the author was.
        The author describes the Bolsheviks as being the dumbest of the dumb. But for some reason, not understanding the importance of a navy for the state, they built one despite the lack of skilled shipbuilders. And the state was built not thanks to the Bolsheviks, but in spite of them. If a state is like a mother, then the author spat right at her, even though he was born in that state. I'd say more, but the moderator would consider it an insult, even though that would be "calling a spade a spade."
        Why is the author allowed to insult me, because by insulting my Motherland, the USSR, he insults me, but I am not allowed to respond to him?
        And one more thing: did the author ever consider why the sailors were so cruel to their officers? Or perhaps it was a kind of "gratitude" for the officers' treatment of their sailors?

        I responded very politically correctly! Just like in my previous life (on the forum), I got a lifetime ban thanks to this "community!" of authors!
    8. +1
      28 December 2025 00: 45
      I agree. Incidentally, let the author consider the reasons for the lynching of officers in the navy and army. And, in general, the causes of the revolution. And the reasons for the defeat of the Whites and their interventionist allies in the Civil War.
  2. +12
    26 December 2025 03: 27
    You can build all sorts of nuclear-powered destroyers and aircraft carriers, arm them with hypersonic weapons, lasers, blasters, and railguns, but if the crews are staffed by these eternally sleepy Unified State Exam (USE) victims, even those with spelling errors, it will be about as effective as it was a century ago. A good goal is to remember the mistakes of the past and not repeat them in the future. And then the future will come true.
    There will be no more mistakes.
    Russia is not the Russian Empire, and certainly not the USSR and the Warsaw Pact. And to put it simply (without the technical details of "what can we build," at least not on the level of Iran), a navy is a lot of money, a blue-water navy is a lot of money, and even by the most optimistic forecasts, the financial situation will be rather tenuous until 2042. "The federal budget will remain in deficit until 2042, according to the Cabinet of Ministers' long-term forecast. Under the baseline scenario, the deficit will grow to 21,6 trillion rubles (2,9% of GDP), while under the conservative scenario, it will rise to 54,7 trillion (8,4% of GDP), Vedomosti reports.."https://m.business-gazeta.ru/news/690223

    By the way, regarding the "victims of the Unified State Exam," to the delight of the local bohemians: find out what's going on with 10th and 11th grades and higher education.
    So wait, 9th grade...
    1. +14
      26 December 2025 07: 51
      Quote: Wildcat
      There will be no more mistakes.
      The Russian Federation is not the Russian Empire and certainly not the USSR with its Warsaw Pact.

      With the advent of the steam engine, the Russian navy could boast of little success against European adversaries. During the Crimean War, the Black Sea Fleet sank, and the Baltic Fleet was held under cover of the Kronstadt forts. During the Russo-Japanese War, the navy suffered heavy losses. During the Northern Military District, the Ukrainians trapped the fleet in Sevastopol and Novorossiysk. The Soviet navy conducted amphibious operations, some quite successfully. The Danube Flotilla, Volga Flotilla, Amur Flotilla, and Northern Fleet were all effective. Incidentally, during his presidency, Yeltsin and his perestroika leaders destroyed more Russian naval ships than the navy lost in the wars against the Germans in the 20th century.
      1. +5
        26 December 2025 09: 27
        The Black Sea Fleet performed brilliantly during WWI, the Black Sea became Russia's internal sea, the landing operations were the best in the world during WWI, the Bosporus mine blockade, the strikes on Istanbul from the AUG, etc.
        1. -1
          26 December 2025 10: 26
          Strikes on Istanbul by AUGs? Whose AUGs?
          1. +6
            26 December 2025 10: 58
            The Black Sea Fleet carried out airstrikes on Istanbul.
            https://topwar.ru/2884-chernomorskij-flot-v-gody-pervoj-mirovoj-vojny-chast-3.html
            The first experience of using naval aviation was 24 March 1915 of the year: the Russian squadron made a trip to Rumelia (r. Turkey in Europe), the squadron was "Nikolai I" with 4 aircraft. They planned to use them for aerial reconnaissance, but then they were used for bombing of coastal targets. This was the first experience of the Russian naval aviation off enemy coasts. March 27 1915 squadron with the participation of 2-x air transport (the cruiser "Almaz", "Nikolai"), the aircraft conducted reconnaissance of the strait and found that there were no large ships, dropped 3 bombs on the coastal fortifications and destroyer.
            By April, the 1915 fleet had grown to 18 aircraft, in April, the 5 fleet of the FBA arrived, in May, the old Curtis aircraft began to replace the M-5 hydroplanes by designer D. P. Grigorovich.
            3 May Russian seaplanes made 1-th raid on the Ottoman capital - Istanbul. These actions showed that aviation is beginning to play a large role not only for reconnaissance, but also for attacking actions. By the end of the year, combat training was improved, the interaction of the crews of airplanes and ships. In October 1915, the Russian squadron made a march to the shores of Bulgaria, Varna and Euxinograd were fired, and an air raid was made on 25.
            1. +9
              26 December 2025 16: 33
              Quote: Sergey Zhikharev
              On May 3, Russian seaplanes carried out their first raid on the Ottoman capital, Istanbul. These actions demonstrated that aviation was beginning to play a greater role not only for reconnaissance but also for offensive operations.

              Are you serious? What did the Turkish press write about this? Thousands of more modern aircraft couldn't bomb Nazi Germany during World War II, but here, two dozen aircraft, never having participated in any air raids at the same time and carried on a couple of ships, began to play a significant role. And considering that all this data is taken from Russian sources, the actual effectiveness of a couple dozen seaplanes that never even took off or landed from a ship's deck is rather questionable.
              1. -1
                27 December 2025 22: 17
                Seriously.
                I don’t know, if you have any information, please share.
                Do you have the same attitude toward the Italian-Turkish air force and WWI in general, the first tanks? - 200 tanks, 1 aircraft carrier, 10-kg bombs...
                The airstrike happened. It showed that a city/enemy can be bombed not only with artillery but also with air power. What more do you need?
        2. +7
          26 December 2025 16: 24
          Quote: Olgovich
          The Black Sea Fleet performed brilliantly during WWI, the Black Sea became Russia's internal sea, the landing operations were the best in the world during WWI, the Bosporus mine blockade, the strikes on Istanbul from the AUG, etc.

          What did it show? Olgovich, don't make people laugh with your long-standing idea of ​​declaring the Russian Empire the progenitor of carrier strike groups. The vivid descriptions of seaplane operations from mother ships in the Black Sea are simply due to the fact that the Black Sea Fleet of the Republic of Ingushetia (RI) never achieved any great success. It couldn't even neutralize the two German cruisers Goeben and Breslau, which harassed the Black Sea Fleet as much as they could. And your Black Sea carrier strike groups were never able to destroy these two main enemies of the Black Sea Fleet of Ingushetia.
          1. -2
            26 December 2025 19: 31
            Quote: Fitter65
            What did it demonstrate? Olgovich, don't make people laugh with your long-standing idea of ​​declaring the Russian Empire the progenitor of carrier strike groups. The actions of seaplanes from mother ships in the Black Sea that are so vividly described were, for a simple reason, not great achievements.

            It was a breakthrough in the tactics and strategy of the Orsk aviation - the first Pearl Harbor - Zanguldak, the first Moravia division landing operations - the best in the world, the world's first submarine minelayer, battleships.

            Against this background, the Black Sea Fleet of WWII, alas...
            1. +2
              26 December 2025 19: 49
              Quote: Olgovich
              It was a breakthrough in the tactics and strategy of the Orsk aviation - the first Pearl Harbor - Zanguldak, the first Moravia division landing operations - the best in the world, the world's first submarine minelayer, battleships.

              Certainly a breakthrough, considering that the naval force's achievements were below zero. The Baltic Fleet of the Russian Empire was at least somewhat active in this regard. And why on earth did you even think that only the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Empire conducted operations using air power? The British, for example, had not three aircraft carriers like the Russian Empire, but at least twice as many, and already in the early stages of World War I, they began building "real aircraft carriers," something the ignorant and technologically backward Russian Empire couldn't afford!!!!! And compared to the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Empire, the Soviet Black Sea Fleet was more active.
              1. 0
                26 December 2025 20: 10
                Quote: Fitter65
                Of course it's a breakthrough, considering that the ship composition in terms of achievements was generally below 0. The Baltic Fleet of the Russian Empire in this regard is at least

                Alesya RA and A from Chelyabinsk on the success of the Black Sea Fleet
                Quote: Fitter65
                And compared to the Black Sea Fleet of the Republic of Ingushetia, the Black Sea Fleet of the USSR was more active.

                Quote: Fitter65
                Quote: Olgovich
                It was a breakthrough in the tactics and strategy of the Orsk aviation - the first Pearl Harbor - Zanguldak, the first Moravia division landing operations - the best in the world, the world's first submarine minelayer, battleships.

                Certainly a breakthrough, considering that the naval force's achievements were below zero. The Baltic Fleet of the Russian Empire was at least somewhat active in this regard. And why on earth did you even think that only the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Empire conducted operations using air power? The British, for example, had not three aircraft carriers like the Russian Empire, but at least twice as many, and already in the early stages of World War I, they began building "real aircraft carriers," something the ignorant and technologically backward Russian Empire couldn't afford!!!!! And compared to the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Empire, the Soviet Black Sea Fleet was more active.

                What ?!! .

                If you don't want to know anything, that's your business...
            2. +4
              26 December 2025 21: 58
              The world's first minelayer submarine remained the only one in the Russian Empire's fleet. Battleships? Well, while the Black Sea Fleet fleet had several clashes with equal opponents, the Baltic Fleet fleet was stationed either in Reval or Helsinki.
              And about the "world's first Pearl Harbor", well, that's just a song, or as Karabas-Barabas said, it's just some kind of holiday!!!😂😂😂
              1. -4
                27 December 2025 14: 13
                Quote: Grencer81
                And about the "world's first Pearl Harbor",

                and there was an article about this on VO..

                Not only was the USSR unable to build battleships, but it also wasted what was left...
                1. 0
                  27 December 2025 17: 13
                  Why did the USSR need battleships?
                  Considering that the Sovetsky Soyuz-class battleships were laid down in 1938 and that it took five years to build the Gangut-class battleships before they entered service, the Soviet battleships were not expected to enter service before 1943.
                  By this time it was already clear that they had faded into the background.
                  1. 0
                    28 December 2025 00: 50
                    At the time of the keel-laying, nothing was clear; all the leading countries were building battleships. After Pearl Harbor and the battles in the Pacific theater, of course.
                2. +1
                  28 December 2025 06: 49
                  And what damage did this raid cause? And which battleships did the USSR destroy?
            3. 0
              27 December 2025 15: 06
              Quote: Olgovich
              Against this background, the Black Sea Fleet of WWII, alas...

              The shelling of Romanian oil fields by Lideans in 1941 and Casey in 1942, the prevention of German ships bombing their own troops, the sinking of two German transit ships during the evacuation from Crimea, which killed thousands of Germans, the successful evacuation of Odessa, and the supply of Sevastopol. Airstrikes from Crimea on Romanian oil fields in the summer of 1941. Perhaps it was these strikes that forced Hitler to turn Guderian's forces toward encircling Kyiv instead of breaking through to Moscow. Very often, real successes are overshadowed by imaginary ones in the context of propaganda. The bombs dropped on the Turks by seaplanes caused a fraction of the damage caused by Gaben shells during the initial shelling of Sevastopol (Sevastopol reveille).
              1. +1
                27 December 2025 17: 19
                On June 26, 1941, the leaders "Moscow" and "Kharkov" did not shell any Romanian oil fields; they shelled the port of Constanta, including the oil terminals in the port.
                At the same time, the leader "Moscow" was lost in a minefield.
                Naval artillery could not shell the oil fields in Ploiesti.
                What artillery shelling of German ships by Soviet troops are we talking about?
                The airstrikes of the Black Sea Fleet and Red Army Air Forces were carried out not on the oil fields, but on the Chernavoda Bridge, along which the oil pipeline ran.
                1. 0
                  27 December 2025 18: 09
                  Quote: Grencer81
                  At the same time, the leader "Moscow" was lost in a minefield.

                  The Germans considered this Black Sea Fleet operation one of their most painful. Following a naval artillery barrage, the Germans landed troops against Bagramyan's forces, which led to a temporary breakthrough of the German encirclement in Courland. However, the Germans had no further success, despite the opportunity to use naval artillery against the land front in the Baltic and Northern theaters of war.
                  1. 0
                    28 December 2025 06: 33
                    What exactly was the pain for the Germans from the shelling of Constanta on June 26, 1941? Was it that the Black Sea Fleet lost one of its two leaders, and possibly also the submarine Shch-206?
                  2. -1
                    28 December 2025 06: 51
                    So, they temporarily landed us, so, they temporarily lifted the blockade...So what? With the mine threat and Soviet air superiority at that time, the Kriegsmarine's surface fleet was a suicide club.
                2. +1
                  28 December 2025 16: 16
                  At the same time, the leader "Moscow" was lost in a minefield.

                  The entire operation is a blatant example of the task force's uncoordinated actions. There's a strong suspicion that the Moskva was sunk by a Shch-206 torpedo, which was patrolling in the area. The damage from a mine with a 120 kg charge looks catastrophic. For a torpedo with a 300-400 kg charge, it's quite sufficient!
                  1. 0
                    28 December 2025 16: 42
                    There is a suspicion that Shch-206 was sunk by depth charges from escort ships.
                    In general, the cruiser "Voroshilov" with a 180 mm caliber was in cover, but it is unclear from whom it was covering the leaders.
                    But its firing range was longer and the projectile weight was greater.
              2. +1
                27 December 2025 17: 20
                The damage from the Goeben shelling of Sevastopol was practically zero.
              3. 0
                28 December 2025 09: 29
                I won't argue with you about obvious things.
              4. 0
                28 December 2025 15: 57
                Preventing German ships from bombing their own troops

                I will translate it into Russian as follows: preventing artillery shelling of Soviet troops by German ships
                Read about the shame of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet in 1944-1945. Two "pickpockets" and a "Prince Eugen" (a true Prince and a Pauper!) each expended two rounds of ammunition shelling our troops advancing along the coast. This resulted in significant losses for us, and tactical gains for the Wehrmacht.
                Thank God, Hitler did not have time to transfer the Tirpitz to the Baltic - he would have had to turn to the Allies.
                1. 0
                  28 December 2025 16: 48
                  What exactly was the "shame" of the KBF?
                  1. +1
                    28 December 2025 17: 02
                    And who looked on with Olympian calm at this massacre of our land forces?! Our twice-red-bannered admirals!
                    With a battleship underway, the ultimate in artillery against the enemy, two cruisers with artillery dangerous for the Prince and the Paupers, destroyers, a heavy tank destroyer, and aircraft, our "legend-shrouded" forces never made it out of the Gulf of Finland into the Baltic, obviously valued the lives of naval specialists, and the infantry...women will give birth to more!
                    1. 0
                      28 December 2025 18: 28
                      Yes, I see you are a great naval commander, even greater than Nelson himself?😂😂😂
                      Is it true that after October 6, 1943, there was an order from Moscow not to use ships of destroyer class and above?
                      And shouldn't the state of the art have been taken into account? Women don't build ships...
                      Throwing accusations after 80 years is a very brave act!!!
                      1. 0
                        28 December 2025 18: 40
                        What is it!
                        None of my six projects would have been realized if, instead of solving the problem, I had been looking for excuses and explanations for the impossibility of implementation.
                        The fact that the Supreme Commander-in-Chief issued the order under the pressure of the loss of three ships in 1943 does not justify the inaction of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet command, which bordered on treason. Permission could have been obtained by convincing the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the need to use the ships to cover coastal operations. Even under the oppression of the Central Bolt, the Baltic Fleet, brimming with anarchists and Bolsheviks, dared to engage the Hochseerflotte in October 1917. And here it is, in the style of "Cockroach":
                        - We would put the enemy on the horns,
                        Only the skin is expensive
                        And horns aren't cheap these days either.
                      2. 0
                        28 December 2025 23: 51
                        So, the battleship... By the end of 1942, the main battery guns were 70% worn out... The last firing was in June 1944, after which the main battery was 100% worn out...
                        It's normal, right?
                      3. -1
                        29 December 2025 08: 07
                        The mere presence at the Naval Theater is enough (the Germans don't know for sure about wear and tear). And the wear and tear of the Lucky Shot's guns doesn't negate it, and the loss of the old ship in battle won't change anything in the Germans' favor. It's completely useless for the post-war world order.
                        Meanwhile, the Germans' guns are also not in the best condition, and let's not forget about the combined attack (artillery and torpedoes) of an enemy constrained in maneuvering.
                      4. -1
                        29 December 2025 11: 57
                        Yeah, right, of course, of course, my dear!!!! As soon as the Germans saw a battleship, they would have sunk their own ships...
                        The loss of hardware may not cost anything, but the loss of experienced crew members costs a lot.
                        Combined attacks, etc., etc....Have you read about the Americans in the Pacific?
                      5. -1
                        29 December 2025 12: 07
                        I'm not your "darling" - we didn't drink together.
                        But in essence, you have nothing to say. The Red Banner Baltic Fleet practiced combined attacks every summer in the 1930s, and the Luftwaffe, model 1944/1945, is no match for our air force. So there's no excuse for self-interest.
                        And with your post you confirmed that you are an apologist for the strategy "Women will give birth to new ones."
                      6. -1
                        29 December 2025 13: 35
                        Unfortunately, war is a choice... And often it's not in anyone's favor... Those who can't understand this are better off playing trains...
        3. +2
          26 December 2025 20: 45
          So, you have answered the question of why the officers of the Black Sea Fleet were dealt with so cruelly, leaving literally few alive.
          1. -1
            27 December 2025 14: 15
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            So, you have answered the question of why the officers of the Black Sea Fleet were dealt with so cruelly, leaving literally very few alive.

            Yes.
        4. -2
          27 December 2025 18: 24
          Quote: Olgovich
          The Black Sea Fleet showed itself brilliantly during WWI,

          The British carried out a complex Dardanelles operation. The Russian Black Sea Fleet had accomplished nothing comparable in World War I. Compare how the Soviet fleet defended Sevastopol, Odessa, Crimea, Hanko, Rybachy, and Sredny, and how the British defended Singapore and Hong Kong. How the British fleet proved incapable of preventing the Japanese from conducting amphibious operations in Burma and supplying the troops that were defeating the British there by sea.
          1. -2
            28 December 2025 11: 20
            Quote: gsev
            The British carried out a complex Dardanelles operation. The Russian Black Sea Fleet had accomplished nothing like it in World War I.

            of course, because he carried out SUCCESSFUL landing operations in Trebizond, unlike failed Dardanelles
        5. -1
          27 December 2025 21: 19
          Quote: Olgovich
          The Black Sea Fleet performed brilliantly during WWI

          In what?
          Prevented the Goeben from shelling the Black Sea coast? By successfully engaging the absent Turkish fleet? By sinking the Empress Maria?
          1. -2
            28 December 2025 10: 45
            Quote: Silhouette
            In what?

            Better landing operations of WWI.

            And so on https://flot.com/blog/piton56/o-deystviyakh-chernomorskogo-flota-rossii-v-pervoy-mirovoy-voyne.php
            1. -1
              28 December 2025 11: 23
              I read it. I didn't understand your reference to the best amphibious operations of WWI. This link talks about six planned Bosphorus operations and not a single one carried out. It also talks about how the Black Sea Fleet was caught off guard by the war and how it couldn't realize its might even when it acquired the latest dreadnoughts.
              If you consider the Anatolian landing the best amphibious operation, it was carried out without any resistance from Turkish troops on an uninhabited coast and did not participate in the military operations to capture Trebizond. It would take a very rich imagination to call it the best amphibious operation of WWI.
              1. -1
                28 December 2025 11: 50
                During WWI, the Black Sea Fleet successfully maintained strategic dominance by blockading the Turkish coast, supporting the Caucasus Army, and destroying enemy vessels. Key successes included the active use of seaplanes for reconnaissance and bombing.
                , mine laying that hindered the actions of the German-Turkish cruisers Goeben and Breslau, as well as successful transport operations despite submarine opposition

                (February 2 – April 18, 1916) was a successful joint operation between the Caucasian Army (General N.N. Yudenich) and the Black Sea Fleet (Batumi detachment) during World War I, culminating in the capture of Trebizond. The fleet provided landings, artillery support, supplies, and a blockade of the Turkish coast, becoming a model of cooperation.

                Ask Alexey RA and Andrey from Chelyabinsk - they've written a lot about this....
                1. -1
                  28 December 2025 12: 47
                  The blockade of the Turkish coast, the mining of the Bosphorus, and strategic dominance did not prevent the shelling of Odessa and Sevastopol, or the sinking of the minelayer Prut.
                  The fleet didn't sink a single Turkish warship, successfully engaging coal-fired steamers and schooners. However, it lost a battleship, a transport, a gunboat, a minelayer, four torpedo boats, and one submarine.
                  The combat use of seaplanes did not result in any successes, which can be regarded as a first experience, but in no way as a key success.
                  Trebizond was taken without a fight. The landing force did not fire a single shot.
                  What are you asking about?
                  1. -1
                    28 December 2025 13: 01
                    Quote: Silhouette
                    The blockade of the Turkish coast, the mining of the Bosphorus, and strategic dominance did not prevent the shelling of Odessa and Sevastopol.

                    it turned the Black Sea into an internal sea of ​​Russia

                    During the Trapez. Operation, the Primorsky Detachment (about 18 men, 38 guns; commander - Lieutenant General V. P. Lyakhov), with the assistance of the Batumi detachment of ships of the Black Sea Fleet (1 battleship, 2 destroyers, 2 torpedo boats, 2 gunboats; Captain 1st Rank M. M. Rimsky-Korsakov), advancing along a narrow coastal strip, by 1 (14) April reached a fortified Turkish position on the Karader River. Here the detachment was reinforced by two Kuban Plastun brigades transferred from Novorossiysk (about 15 men, 12 guns) and, with their arrival, was deployed into the 5th Caucasian Army Corps. On 2 (15) April, Russian troops broke through the enemy defenses.

                    .
                    1. -1
                      28 December 2025 14: 13
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      it turned the Black Sea into an internal sea of ​​Russia

                      A beautiful and empty phrase. It means nothing more than the loss of a brand-new battleship, four destroyers, a submarine, a minelayer, and a transport.
                      1. 0
                        28 December 2025 16: 37
                        Quote: Silhouette
                        A beautiful and empty phrase. There's nothing behind it.

                        behind it lies the enormous military work of the Black Sea Fleet:
                        On December 26, the Goeben struck two Russian mines and sustained two holes on both sides. Repairs took four months.

                        1915 year

                        On January 2, 1915, the Turkish minelayer Berk was blown up by a Russian minefield.

                        From January 3-5, the Black Sea Fleet launched a raid to intercept seven Turkish transports from Istanbul. The patrol cruiser Pamyat Merkuria, stationed near the coast near Sinop, encountered the Turkish light cruiser Gamidiye, which was escaping west. Pamyat Merkuria and the destroyers Gnevny, Derzkiy, Bespokoiny, and Pronzitelnyy were sent in pursuit of the Gamidiye, and the fleet followed them at full speed. During the engagement, hits were observed on the Gamidiye from both Pamyat Merkuria and the destroyers. One shell from the Gamidiye struck the destroyer Derzkiy. The shell hit the Derzkiy, disabling a gun and killing or wounding seven men. On the same day, the cruiser Pamyat Mercury and destroyers sank the Turkish steamship Maria Rosseta.

                        From January 6 to 11, the Black Sea Fleet launched a patrol following the appearance of the Breslau and Gamidiye off the Caucasus coast. The Black Sea Fleet, comprising five battleships, two cruisers, and seven destroyers, set out to sea on the morning of January 6 and set course for Tuapse. Around 8:00 PM that same day, in the darkness, the fleet encountered the Breslau and Gamidiye, which were sailing in the wake column. As a result of the engagement, one 305-mm gun on the Efstathija was damaged. During the patrol from Sinop to Rize, they destroyed up to 50 Turkish barges and sailing vessels.

                        The Black Sea Fleet conducted a campaign from January 14–19. The Turkish steamship Georgios and three sailing vessels were sunk.

                        The Black Sea Fleet conducted a campaign from February 5 to 10. It sank 50–60 sailing vessels, shelled Trebizond, sank the loaded military transport Ak-Deniz in the roads, and destroyed the steamship Brussa, carrying provisions and clothing for the army, at the Ieros meridian.

                        The Black Sea Fleet conducted a campaign from February 12 to 17. Fourteen sailing ships were destroyed.

                        From March 5–8, the Black Sea Fleet sailed to Zunguldak, Kozlu, and Kilimli to destroy coal mining, washing, and handling facilities. Military installations in these ports were shelled, resulting in fires, explosions, and the destruction of port facilities. In Eregli, they sank seven moored steamships and a three-masted Turkish sailing vessel.

                        The Black Sea Fleet conducted a patrol from March 27 to 31. The port of Ereğli was shelled, destroying 11 coal-laden barges, three cranes, and coal loading facilities.

                        On March 29, the Russian steamer Maccovey was killed by a mine.

                        From April 1-3, the Turks and Germans raided Odessa, but the cruiser Medjidiye struck a Russian mine. Meanwhile, the Goeben and Breslau sank the steamships Vostochnaya Zvezda and Provident, which were carrying sugar.

                        The Black Sea Fleet conducted a campaign from May 1 to 5. Three Turkish steamships were sunk.

                        During the battle between May 7 and 11, Goeben received 3 hits.

                        From May 13 to 18, the Black Sea Fleet carried out a new campaign, sinking 2 tugboats and 5 cargo steamers, 58 schooners and a Turkish magpie.

                        On June 6-8, the Black Sea Fleet sank 5 sailing ships and 5 magones, as well as the steamship Edinjik.

                        On June 11, a night battle between the destroyers Derzkiy and Gnevnyy and the cruiser Breslau.

                        On July 18, the German cruiser Breslau was blown up by a Russian mine, leaving it out of action for 7 months.

                        On August 10, near Zunguldak, the submarine Tyulen sank a Turkish coal transport.

                        On September 5, a battle took place near Kefken between the destroyers Pronizitelny and Bystry and the submarine Nerpa, the Turkish cruiser Gamidiye, and the destroyers Numune and Muavenet, which were escorting four coal transports en route from Zunguldak to Istanbul. The Russian destroyers destroyed all four transports.

                        On September 15, the German submarine UB-7 sank transport No. 46 (Patagonia).

                        On September 23, a transport of the Batumi detachment "Northern Star" was blown up by a mine.

                        From September 30 to October 2, the Black Sea Fleet launched a shelling operation in the Kilimli-Zunguldak region, destroying port facilities for washing and loading coal.

                        On October 7, the German submarine UB-14 sank the transport Katya with cargo for the Caucasian Army, and on October 8, it sank the tanker Apsheron with 1 tons of oil.

                        On October 27, three battleships, two cruisers, and 11 destroyers bombed Varna, Bulgaria. The naval bombardment was preceded by a seaplane bombing from the air transport Nikolai I.

                        On December 11, the German submarine UC-13 was caught in a force 11 storm and beached at the mouth of the Melen River. Two Turkish gunboats, the Taş-Koyprü and the Yesgar, sent to unload cargo, were destroyed by Russian destroyers near Kefken Island on December 11, destroying the submarine as well.

                        The Russian submarines "Seal" and "Walrus" operated successfully.

                        1916 year

                        In early 1916, the Black Sea Fleet received its first dreadnought battleships, the Imperatritsa Mariya and the Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya. This radically shifted the balance of power in the Black Sea in Russia's favor, allowing the Russian fleet to establish a blockade of the Coal Region in Anatolia (the ports of Zunguldak, Kozlu, Ereğli, and Kilimli), which served as the only source of local coal for Istanbul, the Turkish fleet, and rail transport. By October 1916, coal deliveries from Zunguldak to Istanbul had virtually ceased. The blockade led to a sharp reduction in Turkish naval operations, including the cessation of minesweeping operations at the mouth of the Bosphorus. Due to a lack of coal, the Goeben never set sail in 1917.

                        The Trebizond Offensive took place from January to April 1916, ending with a Russian victory and the capture of the Turkish port of Trebizond. The navy played a major role in this victory: the Black Sea Fleet, aided by the battleship Rostislav, provided artillery support for the offensive. On April 5, following the successful Russian operations and the amphibious landing at Rize, the Turkish army was forced to abandon Trebizond.

                        On October 27, oil and gasoline reserves concentrated in Constanta were destroyed.
      2. +3
        26 December 2025 09: 59
        You see, I don't want to pick apart your historical misconceptions; Andrey from Chelyabinsk is on the forum for that.
        request

        The point of my post was that, from a purely technical point of view:
        - The Russian Empire could have built a military fleet that was at least formally comparable to its opponents; soldier
        - The USSR/OVD was no longer able, but at least tried to counter the NATO fleets with the help of “gamechangers” like submarines, cruise missiles and naval aviation; sad
        RF... well, let's not talk about the current sadness ("The Russian Navy. A Sad Look into the Future" - there was a series of articles by Andrey from Chelyabinsk, in which, with his accounting precision, he tried to look sadly into the future of the fleet - hmm, now it's clear that it was an unjustifiably cheerful view.) crying

        The future of the fleet: no first-class surface ships under construction; submarine construction, in the non-nuclear part – Varshavyanka (in the 80s, she was excellent, in my opinion), no air-independent propulsion plants; submarines with reactors – NATO is already writing about them in the open press; second- and third-class (what is actually being built) – read Klimov and Timokhin (they have "everything well written about the hardware, the rest, not so much").

        But the worst thing is that while previously the same Andrey from Chelyabinsk/Klimov/Timokhin tried to demonstrate how technically and/or financially building a balanced fleet was "within our power and budget" by redistributing finances and technical resources, now a) there's no money for such a fleet and there never will be (see the forecast until 2042) b) the technical feasibility of building ships... how can I put it mildly...
        And this is for objective reasons: financial, technical, and human. There's no more "reallocation" to be done, like there was 10 years ago. And there won't be any; let's look at the budget proposals through 2042.

        To make things easier to understand, let's look at the finances of three countries (we won't include the US, it's too sad) that are building a fleet: China, India, and Russia.
        1. "China's GDP by year: 1980 – 2025 (at current prices, IMF data):
        2013 - 9 trillion. 635.0 billion dollars
        2014 - 10 trillion. 534.5 billion dollars
        .....
        2024 – $18,75 trillion
        2025 – $19,23 trillion (forecast estimate)

        2. India's GDP by year: 1980–2025 (at current prices, IMF data)
        2013 - 1 trillion. 856.7 billion dollars
        2014 - 2 trillion. 039.1 billion dollars
        ...
        2024 – $3,91 trillion
        2025 – $4,19 trillion (forecast estimate)

        3. "Russia's GDP in US dollars by year, 1992–2025 (at current prices, IMF data):
        2013 - 2 trillion. 289,244 billion dollars
        2014 - 2 trillion. 056,583 billion dollars
        ...
        2024 – $2,16 trillion
        2025 - 2,08 trillion. dollars (forecast)"
        http://global-finances.ru/vvp-rossii-po-godam/
        See the difference and the dynamics? A two-fold, two-fold difference in GDP growth!
        Well, there are no miracles without money...

        P.S. The most offensive thing is how India has overtaken Russia in GDP.
        P.S. The budget forecast through 2042 can be considered a very optimistic plan, IMHO, like "communism by 1980" and "everyone has an apartment by 1980" – but it's better to let financier Andrey from Chelyabinsk write this; he "handled the bankruptcies of city-forming enterprises," IMHO.
        1. +6
          26 December 2025 10: 18
          Quote: Wildcat
          The USSR/OVD was no longer able, but at least tried to counter the NATO fleets with the help of “gamechangers” like submarines, cruise missiles and naval aviation;

          Why couldn't it? By the 80s, nuclear-powered submarines, missile cruisers, and patrol ships (frigates) were practically on par with Western designs. It wasn't impossible to build a Type 41 destroyer-based equivalent, as well as classic aircraft carriers (incidentally, carrier-based combat aviation, despite the "carrier woes," was still developing). There were still problems with ship repairs and a few other things, but nothing was impossible at the time, nor was there a catastrophic backlog. After all, the Reagan/Lehman "600-ship program" didn't just happen; there were reasons for it...
          1. -2
            26 December 2025 10: 24
            I completely agree with you, only regarding the words "were practically not inferior","nothing was impossible","There were still problems with ship repairs and something else"It would be necessary to add"If grandma had... it would be grandpa".
            request
            1. -1
              27 December 2025 09: 25
              Simply comparing fleet potentials is pointless. They must be compared alongside the actual combat missions of these fleets and the scope of foreign policy commitments they have fulfilled.
              The USSR was, after all, a continental power, capable of concentrating virtually its entire fleet on its own defense. The scope of its missions, protecting sea lanes and defending overseas territories and allies, was far more modest than that of the US and NATO. The latter, in turn, had to disperse its forces considerably across the globe.
              1. +1
                27 December 2025 16: 42
                It is pointless to simply compare the potentials of fleets.
                A completely meaningful action (although, as practice shows, not all responsible persons, when making the decision to start a BD, engage in this useful activity).
                By comparing the potential of fleets, one can understand what a fleet can and cannot do in a hypothetical conflict. Here, of course, the military bears a great deal of responsibility, as they must report honestly to politicians. But how can they do this if, for example, they've spent their entire careers peddling tales of "unique, 110% cutting-edge" weaponry? Politicians (who've been fed this for decades) then say, "Well, if that's the case, win—three days will be enough."
                But this is all in Laos, of course.
                It's good that we don't have Laos.
                request
                I think we've strayed from the main topic in this casuistry: "The Russian Navy, which will never exist, primarily due to financial constraints." But we will, of course, be able to maintain frigates/corvettes and some submarines.
                1. 0
                  28 December 2025 08: 07
                  Definitely not, if you consider only ships and their performance characteristics and combat capabilities. It's like counting the number of chess pieces on the board but ignoring their positions.
                  A navy's capabilities in a real conflict depend on more than just the quantity and quality of its ships. Geography, the number and location of naval bases, logistics, and other factors also play a role. And, of course, political factors play a role. Even during an armed conflict, a state's foreign policy isn't limited to that conflict. So a navy isn't a "spherical horse in a vacuum," and what it can and can't actually do will depend on more than just the technical characteristics and training of its crews and command staff.

                  Are you talking about the Yankees now? Who have been chasing the tanker for several days now? Well, yes, the president there has suddenly started to crave a "golden analog" of Homeric proportions. laughing
          2. +14
            26 December 2025 12: 21
            Quote: Doccor18
            Why couldn't it? By the 80s, nuclear-powered submarines, missile cruisers, and patrol ships (frigates) were practically on par with Western models.

            The problem is that the enemy could have laid down 16 non-nuclear missile cruisers before 1990. But we barely scraped together 6, carefully spreading those built across three fleets.
            Quote: Doccor18
            There was nothing impossible in creating an analogue of the UVP type 41 on destroyers

            To do this, it was necessary to bring designers to the meridian, who would mold a new unique PU for each of their products. smile
            Quote: Doccor18
            and classic aircraft carriers

            Unfortunately, Ustinov was finally forced to accept the offer when it was too late to build the submarine. Before that, the Ustinov-Amelko-Yakovlev trio had successfully repulsed all attempts by admirals and shipbuilders to build one. normal AB-CATOBAR instrument of imperialist aggression.
            Quote: Doccor18
            There were still problems with ship repairs and some other things, but nothing was impossible at that time.

            Well, yes, such trivial matters as problems with ship repairs. The navy's problem wasn't just with ship repairs, but with the entire basing system, which was considered secondary. Poured millions of public money into unique ships and basing them without a berth, on a buoy in the bay, is the norm. Introducing unique SSBNs into the navy and failing to build their base on time (even the "gallows" didn't work) is also commonplace.
            Most of the USSR Navy's problems with ship repairs stemmed from the unbearable conditions of the base prior to this repair.
            Moreover, the Navy was burdened with the enormous weight of older ships, whose counterparts in foreign navies had long since been decommissioned. These ships, with their repairs and upgrades, placed an additional burden on the Navy.
            The combat value of the same Project 68-bis, Project 30-bis, Project 627A, etc. was small, but they looked menacing in tables and reports, adding numbers to the "Total".
            1. 0
              26 December 2025 13: 02
              Quote: Alexey RA
              The problem is that the enemy could have laid down 16 non-nuclear missile cruisers before 1990. But we barely scraped together 6, carefully spreading those built across three fleets.

              Without resorting to the gigantomania of the 1144 project, it would have been entirely possible to launch 10-12 Project 1164 cruisers. They were very capable combat units. With their anti-aircraft and anti-ship missile systems undergoing timely modernization, they were in no way inferior to the enemy's cruisers. Again, the issue isn't one of fundamental impossibility (either financial or technical).
              Quote: Alexey RA
              To do this, it was necessary to bring designers to the meridian, who would mold a new unique PU for each of their products.

              And again, the problem lies only in the highest leadership, not only at the level of the Navy Command, but also at the party and state level.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              when it was already too late to build the AB.

              Late for what? In general, or because of the country's collapse? If so, many still don't think so, and are still busy designing and building...
              Quote: Alexey RA
              The fleet's problem wasn't just with ship repairs, but with the entire basing, which was considered something secondary.

              Of course, there were problems, and only those very far removed from the navy could ignore them. But even here, the problems were organizational, largely miscalculations. Could the USSR have established ship repairs within 10-15 years, given the appropriate task and strict oversight of its implementation? Absolutely.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              The Navy was burdened with the enormous weight of older ships, whose counterparts in foreign navies had long since been decommissioned. These ships, with their repairs and upgrades, placed additional burdens on the fleet.

              Of course. But more likely, these problems stemmed from a perceived lack of understanding of what was happening at the top, or indifference, or, who knows, deliberate sabotage. But technically, it was possible to solve all the Navy's major problems within a decade or fifteen months. After all, in my opinion, building another three or four ship repair yards and a couple of dozen concrete berths isn't much more difficult than designing and launching the nuclear-powered multipurpose aircraft carrier 1143.7, the SSBN 941, or the TARK 1144...
              1. +5
                26 December 2025 15: 17
                Quote: Doccor18
                Without resorting to gigantomania with the 1144, it would have been entirely possible to launch 10-12 cruisers of the 1164 project.

                All the questions here are about the Zora: will it be able to handle the gas turbine engine for this series of rocket ships? Let me remind you that Project 956 received the gas turbine engine not only because of Gorshkov and Butoma's wishes, but also because of Zora's objectively heavy workload with current and future orders.
                Quote: Doccor18
                And again, the problem lies only in the highest leadership, not only at the level of the Navy Command, but also at the party and state level.

                The problem is that the Mark 41-class universal vertical launch system undermines the entire naval concept, which relies on long-range heavy anti-ship missiles. Firstly, they don't launch vertically, and secondly, they don't fit into universal slots.
                So we'll either have to switch to subsonic mode with the Granat, or... or nothing - because work on the Onyx has been going on since the 70s, and there's no way to push it forward.
                Quote: Doccor18
                Too late for what? In general or because of the country's collapse?

                It was late due to the collapse. The first Soviet classic AV was laid down only in 1988. However, the basic design (on which the 11437 was based) was developed for the laying down of the third 1143.
                Quote: Doccor18
                After all, in my opinion, building another three or four ship repair yards and two dozen concrete berth walls is not much more difficult than designing and launching the nuclear-powered multipurpose aircraft carrier 1143.7, the SSBN 941, or the TARK 1144...

                Unfortunately, a berth wall or a shipyard don't look good to high-ranking guests compared to a heavy cruiser, heavy cruiser, or SSBN. And in reports, too—you can't really cover them, just prizes and awards. for implementation and development you won't get sad
                And they cost a fair amount of money: if I remember correctly, in Stalin’s times a full-fledged base for the LK Pr. 23 cost a quarter of the LK.
            2. 0
              26 December 2025 14: 52
              The combat value of the same Project 68-bis, Project 30-bis, Project 627A, etc. was small, but they looked menacing in tables and reports, adding numbers to the "Total".

              And other "floating ships" like the large anti-submarine ship "Vice-Admiral Drozd".
              One of the reasons for keeping them in the ship's composition is that 2-3 of these "floating" ships are a brigade, and with it there is a whole staff of captains of the 1st and 2nd ranks with mugs that can barely fit into a gas mask :(
              1. -1
                27 December 2025 21: 27
                The Drozd is a missile cruiser. A very unsuccessful one.
          3. 0
            26 December 2025 13: 38
            The first generation of nuclear submarines were very noisy and easy to spot in the ocean. It's not for nothing that they were called "roaring cows." But now, our enemies are panicking over the quietness of our nuclear-powered submarines.
            1. +2
              26 December 2025 13: 48
              Quote: Sergey39
              The first generation of nuclear submarines were very noisy and easy to spot in the ocean. It's no wonder they were called "roaring cows."

              Since the late 70s, our Project 671RTM(K) Shchukas have been a serious adversary for any fleet, as has been proven time and again in practice, and subsequent Projects 971 and 945 have practically eliminated the gap with Western models...
        2. +1
          26 December 2025 21: 09
          That's true, but you've missed another important component: personnel.
          If, starting January 1, 2026, we were to recruit officers for the required number of ships (and this is both fantastic and unscientific...), it would take them 7-10 years to be able to perform missions with varying levels of effectiveness. It would take an average of 15 years to produce capable command personnel and an average of 5 years to produce the current generation of sailors, i.e., contract soldiers.
          These will be the main obstacle - it's not money that's needed here, but big money...
          Well, who will teach them? There is no one yet...
          And ships, that is, iron, can be bought from China (and God forbid...), but officers and sailors are a piece of cake...
          So, on the horizon, the task is unsolvable in a short time, "thanks" to all the recent defense ministers and other comrades...
          Fast - only a small missile fleet and the support forces for the SSBNs...
        3. +1
          27 December 2025 09: 30
          Quote: Wildcat

          - The Russian Empire could have built a military fleet that was at least formally comparable to its opponents; soldier


          No, it couldn't. In the late Russian Empire, its place was somewhere between Italy and Argentina. And maintaining even such a naval potential came at the expense of land force modernization programs, as was clearly demonstrated by the First World War, when the Russian army was inferior in some respects not only to the Germans but also to the Austrians. First and foremost, in terms of large-caliber, long-range artillery, which was a real trump card at the time.
          1. 0
            27 December 2025 16: 24
            No, it couldn't. In the late Russian Empire, its location was somewhere between Italy and Argentina.
            Apparently, it should have been clarified that the opponents were Japan, Turkey, and, to some extent, Germany. A fleet could have been created to counter Japan and Turkey (including to defeat the fleet), and Germany could have been repelled with mine and artillery positions. As for the Great Patriotic War, no one in the Russian Empire intended to stage a decisive battle of squadrons; at most, cruiser operations and the same mine and artillery positions.
            The Russian fleet was not in the top three, but it was not between Italy and Argentina either.
            And maintaining even such a naval potential came at the expense of modernization programs for the ground forces, as was clearly demonstrated during the First World War, when the Russian army was inferior in some respects not only to the Germans but also to the Austrians. First and foremost, in terms of large-caliber, long-range artillery, which was a true trump card at the time.
            No one could imagine what potential the ground forces would need in WWI, and the navy certainly could not interfere with this potential.
            1. -1
              28 December 2025 08: 30
              1. Russia was objectively unable to counter Japan at sea due to objective reasons: the remoteness of this theater of operations from the industrial centers of the Russian Empire, underdeveloped logistics, and, consequently, the impossibility of properly maintaining and supplying sufficient naval forces in the Far East. Russia's defeat at sea in the Russian Nuclear War was predetermined from the start; no other outcome was possible. The Black Sea Fleet could well have fought Turkey at sea, but conducting amphibious operations (to seize the notorious straits) was questionable. Against Germany... only defensive actions in the Baltic could have succeeded; gaining operational space in the Atlantic would have been suicidal, had they acted independently. It's telling that the Entente allies, England and France, also apparently didn't place much hope in the Russian fleet.

              2. Back then, power was largely measured by the presence of large surface ships, dreadnought battleships in particular. How many did the Russian Empire have at the start of WWI? Sadly, they certainly weren't in the premier league. So, yes, somewhere around the level of Italy. And considering that our dreadnoughts effectively turned out to be "white elephants," my words aren't an insult, but a statement of fact. Especially with regard to our forces in the Baltic. Building and deploying such large, deep-draft ships in such shallow waters (the enemy could easily block potential channels for our battleships with mines) seems blatantly stupid even to me, a landlubber.

              3. Should we use our brains? The Russian Nuclear War, whose lessons our strategists haven't fully absorbed, has already partially demonstrated what was needed. Are you aware of how inferior the Russian army was to its future adversary in terms of artillery and machine guns? And in ammunition production? Have you ever heard or read about a "shell shortage"?
              How could the navy interfere? It's very simple. There's only one military budget, and it's not infinite. More funding for the navy means less funding for the ground forces. And yes, production potential also has a finite value, and for a country with "peripheral capitalism," it's not very large.
              Guns were removed from unfinished battleships and sent to the front... a telling detail.
              Even the Austrians (also underdeveloped, by and large) produced far more artillery shells than the Russian Empire. Ultimately, they got what they got. The navy was unable to achieve much in actual combat, and the Russian infantry was thoroughly bloodied in that war.
        4. 0
          27 December 2025 15: 43
          Quote: Wildcat
          P.S. The most offensive thing is how India has overtaken Russia in GDP.

          India has 10 times more people. It's surprising that its GDP isn't 10 times larger than Russia's. It seems to me that Russia has a more powerful navy than India.
          Quote: Wildcat
          Andrey from Chelyabinsk writes that he "was involved in the bankruptcies of city-forming enterprises," IMHO.

          It seems to me that in Russia, where a plant is managed by an economist without a first-grade technical or military higher education and without experience in technical production in his specialty, the enterprise will first stagnate and then collapse.
          1. 0
            27 December 2025 16: 12
            India has 10 times more people. It's surprising that its GDP isn't 10 times larger than Russia's. It seems to me that Russia has a more powerful navy than India.

            How lucky India is with its people!
            Hmm, did the Tsar inherit the people of the "wrong system" again in Russia? Why are they so unlucky with the people, the Tsars and General Secretaries? And that's why, in 10 (ten years), the Russian Federation's GDP has already...negative growth"?
            It seems to me that in Russia, where a plant is managed by an economist without a first-grade technical or military higher education and without experience in technical production in his specialty, the enterprise will first stagnate and then collapse.
            You see, "nothing is good in itself, but everything depends on circumstances".
            request
            I have seen successful manufacturing enterprises with a professional at the helm, where the manager himself made decisions;
            I also saw it with a financier at the helm, where the financier looked at the “plan-fact” budget, and the rest was done by specialized specialists;
            there were enterprises where the "auditor for life" was the CEO, and that was fine;
            There were companies where the sole executive body only cast a vote at the annual meeting of participants, and the rest was done by specialists...
            good
            And there was a company that "somehow" went under within a couple of months, when the director (who was also the only participant) with a specialized education decided to go to work and manage (and not just receive a weekly salary)....
            crying
            It's not about education, but about the ability to "respond adequately."
            good
            1. 0
              27 December 2025 18: 04
              Quote: Wildcat
              It's not about education, but about the ability to "respond adequately."

              Modern economic successes often last until the Soviet legacy left by the communists is exhausted. As soon as it's exhausted and new technologies and production need to be developed, specialized economists immediately give up. Russia's forestry industry is an example. It seems like the raw materials are there, every Russian has cut and planed something from wood and can quickly learn the trades of carpentry and joinery. But Putin uses Tajik furniture, built by a man who began his career as a builder in Moscow. Why can't HSE graduates compete with him in furniture making or drones with a lifting capacity of 100-250 kg?
              1. 0
                27 December 2025 19: 47
                What nonsense.
                1. Furniture in Russia was excellently made and sold, including through IKEA, but...
                2. Drones are for MAI, not HSE.
                3. "Modern economic successes often last until the Soviet legacy left by the communists is exhausted. As soon as it's exhausted and it's time to build new technology and new production, the economists who specialize in this field immediately give up." Tell this to Volozh or Durov, or those people who developed the Internet and mobile communications in Russia.
                Well, or you can tell Rogozin and his son - they know exactly what to do.
                1. +1
                  27 December 2025 22: 40
                  Quote: Wildcat
                  Furniture in Russia was excellently made and sold, including through IKEA, but...

                  Leaders of all CIS countries buy high-quality carpentry from Tajikistan, not IKEA. A completely different level of profitability.
            2. 0
              28 December 2025 08: 38
              Quote: Wildcat
              Hmm, did the tsar inherit the people of the "wrong system" in Russia again? Why are they so unlucky with the people, tsars and general secretaries? And that's why Russia's GDP has already had "negative growth" over the past 10 years?


              That is, precisely from the period when the “collective West” began to introduce economic (and political) sanctions against the Russian Federation in droves?
              I'd love to see India's economic development if it were subject to even half the sanctions imposed on Russia. India would be crawling on its knees right now. Incidentally, why was India so unremarkable just half a century ago, considered a rather typical "Third World" country, forced to import almost everything?
              As the Soviet joke goes, "Thank you for the tea!" said Leonid Ilyich.
      3. +1
        26 December 2025 13: 46
        Quote: gsev
        With the advent of the steam engine, the Russian navy could boast of little success against European adversaries. During the Crimean War, the Black Sea Fleet sank, and the Baltic Fleet was held under the protection of the Kronstadt forts. During the Russo-Japanese War, the navy suffered devastating losses.

        There's a lot of truth in what you're saying, but... it's a matter of interpretation, as usual. If you look at the analysis of those years (from the Crimean War to 2020, since it's impossible to find analysis of the Central Military District, and generally speaking, it's correct that this will be written about later, but there's no point in warming the enemy's ears now), the question becomes: what was the goal set by the country's leadership or the theater of operations for the fleet? The darkest chapter is the 2nd Squadron in the Russian Navy and Port Arthur; the rest (without going into detail) are mostly a derivative of the top brass' goal-setting.
        After the collapse of the USSR, it's necessary and possible to talk about the navy, but nothing concrete comes to mind. And again, the reason is the leadership's goal-setting.

        Blaming a soldier-sailor for doing something wrong is pointless: he does what he was taught. How, what, where, and when to teach is determined by those "higher up." So the result is this...
    2. +2
      26 December 2025 19: 45
      So wait, 9th grade...
      Maybe this is for the best?
      Hi Andrew!
      1. 0
        26 December 2025 22: 50
        Greetings!
        It would be good if the country were "closed for repairs" and they would focus on roads, housing and communal services, construction and other activities that require many hands.
        request
        But trying to compete with China, where they're launching "black factories," by creating "blue-collar workers... and at the same time removing all restrictions (for example, the limit on currency withdrawals by individuals used to be $1,000,000 per month; from December 8th, it's as much as you want https://www.cbr.ru/press/event/?id=28158 )...
        It doesn't work like that...
        crying
        1. +4
          27 December 2025 07: 05
          It would be good if the country were "closed for repairs" and they would focus on roads, housing and communal services, construction and other activities that require many hands.
          For this you need the Great Depression and Roosevelt as president.
        2. 0
          28 December 2025 08: 40
          Quote: Wildcat
          It would be good if the country were "closed for repairs" and they would focus on roads, housing and communal services, construction and other activities that require many hands.


          There aren't enough real working hands anymore. Just empty wishful thinking.
    3. -1
      27 December 2025 00: 25
      By the way, regarding the "victims of the Unified State Exam," to the delight of the local bohemians: find out what's going on with 10th and 11th grades and higher education.
      So wait, 9th grade...
      You talk as if they teach something useful and necessary in school these days, and don't just make up courses out of thin air and add more hours.
  3. +7
    26 December 2025 03: 37
    Isn't this article a discreditation of the Russian Armed Forces, represented by a fleet that hides in distant bays from the enemy?
    1. +2
      26 December 2025 06: 16
      Quote: andrewkor
      Isn't this article a discreditation of the Russian Armed Forces, represented by a fleet that hides in distant bays from the enemy?

      He's not hiding. They were told, "Shall we stand up for our Russian land?!", so they stand.
    2. +6
      26 December 2025 07: 54
      Quote: andrewkor
      Isn't this article a discreditation of the Russian Armed Forces?

      The author attempted to discredit the USSR and whitewash the post-Soviet leaders who destroyed numerous ships and facilities of the Russian shipbuilding industry.
      1. 0
        27 December 2025 21: 39
        Quote: gsev
        The author attempted to discredit the USSR and whitewash the post-Soviet leaders who destroyed numerous ships and facilities of the Russian shipbuilding industry.

        All post-Soviet leaders were raised in the USSR by the Communist Party, which destroyed the USSR.
        Find out how Admiral Khvatov, the commander of the Pacific Fleet, became a bank director and where the money from the sale of the fleet's warships—the Minsk and Novorossiysk, for example—went. How the ships and submarines were overhauled before being scrapped. The Tsarist Navy never dreamed of such chaos.
        1. -1
          27 December 2025 23: 02
          Quote: Silhouette
          The Tsar's fleet never dreamed of such chaos.

          I was told how they looted the base in Cam Ranh and spent the loot in the cafes of Da Nang. But this happened after the collapse of the USSR and the repeal of the constitutional clause regarding the primacy of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Incidentally, after withdrawing from Vladivostok and Sevastopol, the Whites sold off every ship they could find. And they sold them cheaply. The Black Sea Fleet, it seems, was simply bought for fuel to escape with, and the Pacific Fleet was used for a handsome pension for several admirals from the elite of the last White government of Primorye.
          1. -2
            27 December 2025 23: 08
            Quote: gsev
            By the way, after leaving Vladivostok and Sevastopol, the White Sea Fleet sold all the ships they were able to take with them.

            Your information and interpretation of events are incorrect. It's on par with political studies in the "Communist of the Armed Forces" magazine.
            1. -2
              27 December 2025 23: 17
              Quote: Silhouette
              Your information and interpretation of events are incorrect.

              After their defeat in the civil war, pro-American Afghans fled the country, but they didn't destroy or seize property they didn't need to escape. Abdullah Abdullah and Hamid Karzai even refused to flee Kabul after abdicating power. What a striking contrast to Krasnov, who served in Hitler's division that destroyed Stalin's partisans, and the philosopher Ilyin, who worked at an institute that planned the extermination, enslavement, and oppression of the Slavs.
            2. +1
              27 December 2025 23: 22
              Quote: Silhouette
              At the level of political studies on the magazine "Communist of the Armed Forces"

              Soviet literature taught how to live a dignified life for the benefit of oneself, one's family, and the USSR. That the path to success lies through hard work from a young age. Modern television teaches that working is shameful and disgraceful, that one should live as a parasite and seek a cushy position by currying favor with one's superiors.
    3. +7
      26 December 2025 08: 25
      but what about:
      The Russian Supreme Court: Citizens cannot be punished for criticizing officials.
      1. +1
        26 December 2025 13: 47
        Quote: Dedok
        but what about:
        The Russian Supreme Court: Citizens cannot be punished for criticizing officials.

        But you can put them in jail... is that really a punishment? It's a reward for talking!
    4. +11
      26 December 2025 09: 28
      Well, looking at what happened to the Black Sea Fleet in 2022-23, it wasn't the fleet that was discredited, but the command. Because they were the ones in charge. Or they were handing down idiotic orders from above. And regarding the quality of the specialists, I want to say something. I worked at a power plant in the 80s and 90s. Back then, they hired engineers immediately, without even a formal education, but they had served in the navy, according to these specialists.
      1. +1
        26 December 2025 13: 49
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        Back then, they hired engineers immediately without any discussion, even without a specialized education, but only those who had served in the navy, according to these specialists.

        Speak the truth, my dear!
        And why not?
        Yes, they trained the sailor, and the sailor served, and did not work under a contract...
        1. -1
          27 December 2025 23: 06
          Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
          Yes, they trained the sailor, and the sailor served, and did not work under a contract...

          In the West, it is considered a great advantage of the Soviet military system to be able to train specialists in complex specialties from people with relatively low abilities and unmotivated to learn.
          1. +1
            27 December 2025 23: 10
            Quote: gsev
            A major advantage of the Soviet military system was the ability to train specialists in complex specialties from people with relatively low abilities and unmotivated to learn.

            I must have missed something in the service...
            Low abilities and a lack of motivation to learn will not produce results in complex specialties under any system...
            laughing wassat
            1. -1
              27 December 2025 23: 29
              Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
              Low abilities and a lack of motivation to learn will not produce results in complex specialties under any system...

              A tank is quite a complex piece of equipment. But in training, they taught us how to drive it in just a few months. Do you think any graduate from the machine tool will be able to immediately connect a three-phase motor to the power grid or charge batteries without assistance?
              1. 0
                27 December 2025 23: 40
                Quote: gsev
                you think

                No, I don't think anything about it, I can't imagine what it was like there... The tractor drivers went to BC-5, they serviced diesel engines, they weren't idiots... so it's more a question of terminology...
                1. -1
                  27 December 2025 23: 42
                  Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
                  The tractor drivers went to BC-5, serviced the diesel engines, and weren't idiots.

                  But they were not graduates of Moscow physics and mathematics schools.
                  1. 0
                    27 December 2025 23: 46
                    Quote: gsev
                    But they were not graduates of Moscow physics and mathematics schools.

                    I hope you don't think it's necessary to be a physics and mathematics student to service a diesel engine?
                    There were no such requirements for missilemen either...
                    So - the pipe is lower, the smoke is thinner... academics are not needed in the service...
                    And in civilian life, academics are not needed either in depots or at power plants...
                    1. -1
                      27 December 2025 23: 58
                      Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
                      Don't you think it's necessary to be a physics and mathematics student to service a diesel engine?

                      Life is often unfair. In Tajikistan, a man with no higher education at all is successfully designing drones. In Sterlitamak, I saw a man who understood all the Soviet CNC systems as well as the designers who created them, but he didn't even have a vocational school education, only a mere two-month course in industrial skills. When I was studying at Stankin, some groups lost half their personnel due to unsuitability for training. Is such a dropout from training companies allowed in the armed forces? Nevertheless, nothing catastrophic is happening in the army. In the West, before the collapse of the USSR, the Soviet army's ability to train its personnel was highly valued. If you don't believe me, read Freeman Dyson's book "Arms and Hope." During World War II, the author calculated the tactics and strategy of British air force operations against the Germans.
                      1. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 04
                        In some ways you are right, exceptions only prove the rule, as you yourself know...
                        Small arms were largely created by amateurs, and this doesn't mean that we should rely solely on poorly educated ignoramuses whose only advantage (but what an advantage!) is that they have no fear of authority...
                        Look today - AI is complete nonsense, sometimes written by idiots and sociopaths... and the result is the same... so I wouldn't generalize like that...
                      2. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 15
                        Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
                        that we should only rely on the poorly educated ignoramuses,

                        There's a program called "Academy." Professors in their fields speak to schoolchildren and students, explaining the many intricacies of their fields in accessible formats. In his presentation, a professor from MAI noted that pilots and mechanics for aircraft operation could be taught all the necessary aerodynamic intricacies in about a month. But at MAI, they teach this for several years, so that at least one or two people from the entire course can develop something new in aerodynamics that keeps our aviation at a modern level.
                      3. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 17
                        Well, in general I agree... so where do you see the contradictions?
                        The idea of ​​a bear and a balalaika or a bicycle has been known since time immemorial, but this hasn't abolished science...
                        I don't see any point of contention...
                      4. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 20
                        Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
                        Well, AI is complete nonsense,

                        This device allows us to reduce labor costs in military systems development by approximately three times. In my youth, it was believed that CAD could never replace a drawing board. However, now all designers use design editors and design calculation systems. This doesn't eliminate the need for knowledge of interchangeability, mathematics, physics, chemistry, and machine parts.
                      5. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 25
                        Quote: gsev
                        This thing allows to reduce labor costs in the development of military systems by approximately 3 times.

                        That's not what I'm talking about... It makes things easier, tens and hundreds of times, but the entire AI database—what they'll upload... and what rules they'll write... my thesis is pretty wicked: to write and use AI, you need to have your own...
                        Without a mass of graduates from institutes, academies, and universities, a true scientist will not crystallize... and the higher the level of education in society, the more talent will emerge.
                      6. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 30
                        Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
                        It makes things tens and hundreds of times easier, but the entire AI database—what they'll load... and what rules they'll write...

                        This applies to any mission. If intelligence has fed us disinformation, only Gerasimov is capable of successfully planning an operation based on it. Such a case occurred during the Second Chechen War.
                      7. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 36
                        So here we have what we have....
                      8. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 41
                        Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
                        So here we have what we have....

                        AI is simply a tool for analyzing large amounts of data, and it performs some tasks faster than previous algorithms. For example, a drone uses artificial vision to scan the terrain below, while AI identifies X-ray missiles, self-propelled guns, tanks, diesel locomotives, fuel tankers, and infantry from the image and attacks them.
                      9. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 44
                        I know what it is and how it works. The first software was written back in 82... The current ones haven't gone much further, and in some places haven't even caught up with us...
                      10. 0
                        28 December 2025 00: 49
                        Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
                        and in some places they didn't even catch up with us...

                        Solidwork, Compass, AutoCAD, online shopping and translation systems, internet searches using links and queries. The world has come a long way since 1982. Although I sometimes feel like I was tackling more complex tasks in 1992 than I am today.
  4. +21
    26 December 2025 03: 53
    What heresy! Come on, great Tsarist officers! Those who sank the fleet during the Crimean War, afraid to give the British a decisive battle, those who staged Tsushima and deserted during the Battle of the Yellow Sea. Those who surrendered first-rank ships to the enemy without a fight. And in World War I, those who fled from Goeben in the Black Sea for three years, despite having superior forces. There's nothing to say about the Baltic Fleet in World War I, other than the sinking of the battleship Slava. And who sank it? The sailors or the incompetent command.

    Meanwhile, during World War II, Red Army crews and officers carried out even the most deadly orders. They staged a successful landing in Kerch in 1941 despite the enemy's total air superiority, and supplied Sevastopol until mid-1942, even before the fleet's entire cargo fleet was destroyed. In 1942, they broke through to the Baltic Sea through the Germans' total defenses in the Gulf of Finland and sank German merchant shipping, forcing the Germans to mine and trap the exits from the Gulf of Finland with iron nets. They even torpedoed the battleship Tirpitz.

    The author should be held accountable for discrediting the heroism of our grandfathers who defeated Hitler. Everything written here is simply an insult to our country and our history.
    1. 0
      26 December 2025 06: 10
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      Ships of the 1st rank that surrendered to the enemy without a fight.

      Regarding the technical aspects, the achievement at Tsushima is an ACHIEVEMENT, as maintaining the forces of two squadrons in working order requires the appropriate competencies. The moral component is a secondary issue; the history of naval battles knows many cases where a ship's crew refuses to surrender and perishes in an unequal battle, and the Tsarist fleet certainly did not distinguish itself in this regard.
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      Besides the sinking of the battleship Slava. And who sank it? - the sailors or the incompetent command

      What's so incompetent about the Slava's inability to pass through the strait? Should they have carried it through?
      They carried out a successful landing in Kerch in 1941, despite the enemy's total air superiority.

      Where did this TOTAL superiority come from? Maybe it's the other way around?
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      supplied Sevastopol until mid-1942

      Because the enemy had no navy to counter the shipping. The British supplied Malta throughout the war, but it was completely surrounded by the Italian fleet and a German submarine.
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      sank German merchant shipping

      Which was not damaged in any way.
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      They even torpedoed the battleship Tirpitz.

      Now you've slipped into fairy tales.
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      The author should be held accountable for discrediting the heroism of our grandfathers.

      The question is not about heroism, but about the level of competence.
      1. +6
        26 December 2025 08: 09
        Quote: Puncher
        The British supplied Malta throughout the war, but it was completely surrounded by the Italian fleet and a German submarine.

        The British failed to evacuate Singapore, and the Americans failed to supply their garrison on Baatan. The Japanese continued to crush the British and American fleets until the summer of 1942, almost as successfully as they had crushed the Russian Imperial Navy at Tsushima.
        1. +4
          26 December 2025 11: 52
          Quote: gsev
          The British were unable to evacuate Singapore, and the Americans were unable to supply their garrison on Baatan.

          There were failures, and there were achievements. There were more achievements. The Royal Navy ground the entire German fleet, nullifying Dönitz's "wolf packs." You didn't know that?
        2. +1
          27 December 2025 00: 28
          The Japanese decimated the British and American fleets until the summer of 1942.
          They spent six months destroying them? And then the Americans repaired the torpedoes, started production, motivated the population, and Japan began to crumble.
      2. 0
        26 December 2025 10: 23
        The British supplied Malta throughout the war? A very bold statement!
        Apparently, you've never heard of the RN's supply operations in Malta. And you're unaware that a local newspaper even published an issue announcing Malta's capitulation. Had the five ships of the Pedestal convoy not broken through to Malta, it would have capitulated. And you should read up on the cost of that breakthrough.
        1. +4
          26 December 2025 11: 47
          Quote: Grencer81
          The British supplied Malta throughout the war? A very bold statement!

          What's so brave about that? They didn't supply you in the end?
          1. -3
            26 December 2025 16: 39
            They supplied...But...How they supplied...You should read books, at least in translation.
      3. +2
        26 December 2025 11: 46
        *The history of naval battles knows many cases where a ship's crew does not surrender and perishes in an unequal battle, and here the Tsar's fleet certainly did not distinguish itself.*
        gunboat "Sivuch" in the Baltic,
      4. -1
        27 December 2025 09: 19
        1. Tsushima was a Japanese achievement. And a strategic blunder by the Russian command, which sent its ships to the slaughter.
        2. It is probably not worth denying the Luftwaffe's air superiority in 1941.
        3. So why didn't Hitler deploy large surface forces to the Black Sea? Why didn't he risk it?
        4. It is not proven that the sinking of German (and neutral) transports had no impact on the German military-industrial complex. It is likely that there was an effect.
        5. Our ancestors are nothing compared to today's armchair warriors. laughing
    2. +11
      26 December 2025 06: 22
      Excuse me, but who ordered the sinking of ships and frigates during the Crimean War? It wasn't the navy that made the decision. Excuse me, but who was running from Goeben? Maybe he was running from ours. And can you tell me who laid those dense minefields near Sevastopol during WWII? Isn't this some kind of Zen thing? Don't break your heart. Although the article is utterly strange, but...
      1. +1
        26 December 2025 08: 03
        Quote: saigon
        Could you tell me who laid dense minefields near Sevastopol during WWII?

        The Italian and Turkish fleets were expected at Sevastopol.
        1. +2
          26 December 2025 16: 13
          What fleets? The Italian fleet in the Black Sea in 1941-42? They were hiding from the British in their bases. What are you talking about? And what fleet were they expecting in the Far East in 1945, burying everything under mines until V.I. Stalin gave it his all.
          1. -1
            27 December 2025 14: 55
            Quote: saigon
            And what kind of fleet was expected in the Far East in 1945, burying everything with mines until V.I. Stalin put the cap on it.

            The Japanese mine-lined the straits leading to the Sea of ​​Japan. US submarines were able to penetrate the Sea of ​​Japan only thanks to a secret Japanese mine-detection technology, unknown to Soviet admirals. Had the battleship Yamato appeared off Vladivostok, it could have devastated both the port and the city with its guns. But Yamato was only sunk in 1945. Stalinism promoted obedient people, not thinking ones. A thinking person should have first raised the issue of abolishing collectivization and repression, not abolishing mine-laying. In 1987, I proposed reducing the production of stacker cranes in the USSR by a factor of 20, but I was warned that I would be labeled anti-Soviet. And under Stalin, there was every reason to label me a spy, since my conclusions were based on data on plant production volumes to which neither I nor my colleagues with whom I communicated had access.
            1. +1
              27 December 2025 15: 07
              You know, when you write something, you have to know at least a little about the subject. Excuse me, which battleship is near Vladivostok? Where could the Japanese get such a trivial thing as oil for battleship boilers? No, of course, this is trivial and doesn't deserve attention. By August 1945, the Americans had scuttled practically everything sailing the seas from the Japanese. But of course, this is trivial. But the question is, why the hell did the Japanese even dream of Vladivostok in 1945? Our admirals laid the mines, ours. And as for the obedient ones, who did Stalinism promote? Colonel Baghramyan rose to commander of the Baltic Front by 1945 and wore the epaulets of an army general. This is just an example.
              1. -1
                27 December 2025 15: 25
                Quote: saigon
                By August 1945, the Americans had sunk almost everything the Japanese had at sea.

                Yamato sank on April 7, 1945. Stalin stated that the condition for the USSR's entry into the war against Japan was a breakthrough by the US fleet to the ports of Korea two months after the start of the Soviet-Japanese War and the supply of advancing Soviet troops through these ports.
                Quote: saigon
                By 1945, Colonel Bagramyan had risen to the rank of commander of the Baltic Front.

                Stalin repressed Marshal Rokossovsky. General Korobkov, unlike the other two army commanders, did not lose control of his troops on the Western Front and was not encircled, despite opposing Guderian on the German front's main attack. However, he, and no less successful generals, was executed by Stalin.
        2. 0
          27 December 2025 21: 47
          Quote: gsev
          The Italian and Turkish fleets were expected at Sevastopol.

          But they had no idea. Because there was nothing for them to do there. Manstein accomplished the task brilliantly, even without superiority in men and equipment.
    3. +8
      26 December 2025 07: 16
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      Everything written here is simply an insult to our country and our history.

      Everything you have written is an insult to our country and history.
    4. +5
      26 December 2025 08: 01
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      Fearing to give the British a decisive battle, those who staged Tsushima and deserted during the Battle of the Yellow Sea. Those who surrendered first-rank ships to the enemy without a fight. And during the First World War, those who fled for three years from Goeben in the Black Sea.

      The Tsarist admirals conducted themselves with considerable dignity in battle. The admirals and captains' courage cannot be denied. Perhaps it was the loss of combat officers during the Russo-Japanese War that shattered the traditions of the Russian Navy, after the most courageous and experienced perished in battles in the Yellow Sea and the Sea of ​​Japan.
    5. +12
      26 December 2025 12: 16
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      The author should be held accountable for defamation.

      To be honest, I'm at a loss as to who wrote more nonsense, you or the author...
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      During the First World War, they fled for three years from Goeben on the Black Sea, having an advantage in forces.

      Yeah. They ran so hard that they were chased back into the Bosphorus.
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      Meanwhile, during the Second World War, Red Army crews and officers carried out even the most deadly orders.

      Yeah...
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      They even torpedoed the battleship Tirpitz.

      It's just a pity the Germans didn't notice this...
      So, which of you has discredited us more is an open question. In my opinion, the ignorant ultra-patriots have done no less damage than the foreign agents.
    6. +8
      26 December 2025 12: 33
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      And during the First World War, they fled for 3 years from Goeben on the Black Sea, having an advantage in forces.

      It must have been a funny picture: 16-knot battleships running away from a 26-knot battlecruiser. laughing
      With the commissioning of the "Empresses", the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Fleet had one problem - to catch the "Goeben" at sea.
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      They carried out a successful landing in Kerch in 1941, despite the enemy's total air superiority.

      During the landing, there was no air superiority. The Lufts only recovered after the landing—and gave the fleet a hard time. The poor KyrKav barely made it from Feodosia to Novorossiysk, after which it had to dock in Poti for repairs.
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      They even torpedoed the battleship Tirpitz.

      So much so that no one noticed—and the battleship continued on. It only turned back after receiving information about the convoy's dispersal and the third or fourth intercept of its own sightings (if I remember correctly, a British and Russian submarine, along with a Northern Fleet reconnaissance aircraft, were present).
      1. +3
        26 December 2025 13: 16
        Quote: Alexey RA
        It must have been a funny picture: 16-knot battleships running away from a 26-knot battlecruiser.

        Yes, yes, it was especially amusing when Rostislav single-handedly covered the landing operations in the Caucasus, terrified of the evil Goeben. But what am I saying? This was Rostislav, with his formidable 254mm guns from the Tsushima era. Who could he fear?
        1. +6
          26 December 2025 15: 22
          Quote: Trapper7
          Yes, yes, it was a particularly funny picture when Rostislav single-handedly covered the landing operations in the Caucasus, being very afraid of the evil Goeben.

          That's true... However, "Rostislav" was not one to be timid. smile
          To get a better look at the enemy trenches, Rostislav approached the shore to a distance of only 2 cables.
    7. +5
      26 December 2025 13: 14
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      During the First World War, they fled for three years from Goeben on the Black Sea, having an advantage in forces.

      Now, list the times when the Russian fleet "escaped" from Goeben? Was there even one such instance?
    8. +1
      26 December 2025 13: 51
      Quote: Zorgonaft
      What heresy! Come on, great Tsarist officers! Those who sank the fleet during the Crimean War, afraid to give the British a decisive battle, those who staged Tsushima and deserted during the Battle of the Yellow Sea. Those who surrendered first-rank ships to the enemy without a fight. And in World War I, those who fled from Goeben in the Black Sea for three years, despite having superior forces. There's nothing to say about the Baltic Fleet in World War I, other than the sinking of the battleship Slava. And who sank it? The sailors or the incompetent command.

      Exactly.
      To shit on the history of your ancestors like that - you have to try really hard...

      Quote: Zorgonaft
      The author should be held accountable for discrediting the heroism of our grandfathers who defeated Hitler. Everything written here is simply an insult to our country and our history.

      Although not so radical, I still support...
  5. +13
    26 December 2025 03: 57
    The list of admirals in the paragraph about the Black Sea Fleet tragedy includes those executed? So Kolchak wasn't executed there, then, or for that.
    1. 0
      16 January 2026 08: 44
      Stop this prank of the author, he has demoted Shaposhnikov to non-commissioned officer and a conductor is equal to an infantry ensign.
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. +10
      26 December 2025 06: 31
      And it looks like the conversation took place after an article about space. I've noticed that after a critical article, this kind of nonsense always comes up, apparently as an excuse. They'll probably knock out all our critical comets.
      1. +1
        26 December 2025 13: 53
        It's unlikely they'll demolish it... they'll remember it. wassat
        Don't even doubt it!
  7. +12
    26 December 2025 05: 23
    Not an article, but nonsense! Into the furnace!
    1. +6
      26 December 2025 09: 30
      Wait, Olgovich will show up now, and this monarchist will explain it in a popular way.
  8. +11
    26 December 2025 05: 42
    Oh! The crunch of a bun plus the filing of Ogonyok - the article is ready.
  9. +12
    26 December 2025 06: 03
    So why didn't the fleet conduct a single sensible operation during the entire Black Sea war?

    In fact, the defense of Odessa and the subsequent troop evacuation, as well as the defense of Sevastopol under the dominance of German air power—something the author somehow forgot—were perfectly reasonable operations. And the Soviet Navy had plenty of such operations under enemy air superiority. Without air cover, even the highly experienced British, on their capable ships, were, to put it mildly, not particularly impressive.
    In general, some kind of Ogonyok-like opus, in which the current disgrace of the Black Sea Fleet is blamed on the USSR.
    1. -2
      26 December 2025 09: 32
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      defense of Sevastopol

      The naval and defense leadership, having changed clothes, fled to the rear, leaving tens of thousands of heroic soldiers to flee.

      History does not know of a more shameful act.
      1. -1
        26 December 2025 09: 57
        Quote: Olgovich
        The naval and defense leadership, having changed clothes, fled to the rear, leaving tens of thousands of heroic soldiers to flee.

        Oh, the lying Olgych has emerged, an accomplice of the Banderites and the Anglo-Saxon enemies of Russia.


        Quote: Olgovich
        F. S. Oktyabrsky, who believed that it was necessary to save the fleet, not the army (on June 26, the destroyer Bezuprechny and the diesel-electric submarine S-32 were lost on the way to Sevastopol, on June 27, the leader of the destroyers Tashkent, returning from Sevastopol, received serious damage), as well as command personnel (command staff from the regiment commander and above), asked S. M. Budyonny and his deputy, Admiral I. S. Isakov, and then N. G. Kuznetsov for permission to evacuate himself along with several hundred commanders and responsible workers, on the condition that I. E. Petrov was in the SOR. Kuznetsov and
        Budyonny independently supported this request, after which the Supreme Command Headquarters (in fact, I.V. Stalin after a conversation with Kuznetsov) agreed to begin the evacuation of the command staff, troops and valuables of the SOR (previously not planned)

        Budyonny empowered Petrov with the powers of the SOR commander and gave the order to the Chief of Staff of the Black Sea Fleet, Rear Admiral I. D. Eliseev, to organize the evacuation with all available submarines, patrol boats, high-speed minesweepers, and MO boats (sea hunter type).

        On the night of July 1 F. S. Oktyabrsky and N. M. Kulakov, accompanied by N. D. Ermolaev, flew to Krasnodar on the only PS-84, ... other representatives of the SOR command and city authorities were evacuated on two submarines to Novorossiysk.

        Soviet soldiers abandoned by the SOR command on the Kherson Peninsula held until the morning of July 4 Khersones airfield, lighthouse and lighthouse on Cape Khersones (this day, according to the Federal Law "On Veterans", is officially recognized in the Russian Federation as the last day of the Sevastopol defense).

        It was noted that a mistake had been made in choosing a defensive line to ensure the evacuation: “the incorrectly decided position of the evacuation line did not ensure the planned evacuation of troops,” since “the transport communications were under attack by the enemy.”


        Quote: Olgovich
        History does not know of a more shameful act.

        VO does not know a more shameful liar than Olgovich.
        1. +2
          26 December 2025 16: 23
          Oh, I always disagree with Olgovich, but he's right about this. The command staff was evacuated, there are no fighters. Mekhlis wrote something about this.
          1. +1
            26 December 2025 16: 44
            Mekhlis was lucky to escape the defeat of the Crimean Front. Pavlov and Co. were put up against the wall for such things. It was after the fall of the Crimean Front that Sevastopol was doomed.
          2. 0
            26 December 2025 17: 46
            Quote: saigon
            Oh, I always disagree with Olgovich, but he's right here. The command staff was evacuated, but there are no fighters.

            Is Olgovich right? He's lying. First of all, there was no longer any opportunity:
            Quote: saigon
            It was noted that a mistake had been made in choosing a defensive line to ensure the evacuation: “the incorrectly decided position of the evacuation line did not ensure the planned evacuation of troops,” since “the transport communications were under attack by the enemy.”

            Secondly, they evacuated as best they could:

            Due to intense shelling by German aircraft and artillery, the evacuation from the Chersonesus Peninsula was carried out on a very limited scale: it was possible to evacuate about 3 thousand people, mainly on July 1–3.

            Well, thirdly, there were even more shameful ones, and among the owners of Olgovich:
            On the evening of February 15, Bennett handed over command to Cecil Callahan, former commander of the Northern Sector artillery, who had just returned from the hospital, promoting him to temporary major general (this rank was officially confirmed only upon Callahan's resignation in 1947, but with seniority dating back to September 1, 1942). Bennett himself, along with several junior officers and accompanied by several local plantation owners, quietly abandoned his troops, reached the shore, and boarded a boat. Since further escapes were prohibited by his own orders, alarm was averted, and the Japanese remained unaware of the general's disappearance.

            Surrender of Singapore
        2. 0
          26 December 2025 19: 49
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          -
          emerged, an accomplice of Bandera and the Anglo-Saxon enemies of Russia.

          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          VO does not know a more shameful liar

          than[quote=Vladimir_2U][/quote]
          The shameful flight of the leadership is a black page of defense
          1. -2
            27 December 2025 14: 44
            Quote: Olgovich
            emerged, an accomplice of Bandera and the Anglo-Saxon enemies of Russia.

            A man who fervently defends Bandera's mendacious version of the famine in the USSR—the "Holodomor"—a man who fervently promotes the mendacious Polish-Nazi version of the massacre of Poles at Katyn, a man who is far from opposed to the replacement of Russians by hordes of Islamist migrants. Such a man is an accomplice of Bandera's followers and Russia's Anglo-Saxon enemies. And that man is you, Olgovich...

            Quote: Olgovich
            The shameful flight of the leadership is a black page of defense

            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Well, thirdly, there were even more shameful ones, and among the owners of Olgovich:
            On the evening of February 15, Bennett handed over command to Cecil Callahan, former commander of the Northern Sector artillery, who had just returned from the hospital, promoting him to temporary major general (this rank was officially confirmed only upon Callahan's resignation in 1947, but with seniority dating back to September 1, 1942). Bennett himself, along with several junior officers and accompanied by several local plantation owners, quietly abandoned his troops, reached the shore, and boarded a boat. Since further escapes were prohibited by his own orders, alarm was averted, and the Japanese remained unaware of the general's disappearance.
            1. 0
              28 December 2025 11: 34
              the person writing this nonsense:

              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              A man who strenuously defends the false Bandera version of the famine in the USSR - "Holodomor", a man who strenuously defends the false Polish-Nazi version of the execution of Poles at Katyn, a man who is far from opposed to the replacement of Russians with hordes of Islamist migrants.
              - and there is
              an accomplice of Banderovites and Anglo-Saxon enemies of Russia. And this man is precisely

              There was nothing more shameful:

              A participant in those battles, Lieutenant V.I. Voronov, described how Oktyabrsky approached the plane late at night, dressed in some civilian clothes, “in a shabby jacket and an unsightly cap.
              Those who saw the fleet commander in such an unusual guise were unpleasantly impressed by the change of clothes. And what's "unpleasant" about it? It was demoralizing! General Petrov was evacuated on the submarine Shch-209: he had fled the command post in defiance of orders from Marshal Semyon Budyonny, commander of the North Caucasus Front (to whom the SOR was operationally subordinate), to remain and lead the defense. He didn't forget to evacuate his son, an aide-de-camp, either.

              Eyewitness accounts have survived: while the general's son was being transferred to the submarine, submariners threw into the water and beat on the heads and hands with boathooks and boots those who swam toward the submarine in the vain hope of rescue. A total of 498 "responsible officials" were evacuated, including security officers and party bosses.

              The plan was to evacuate the entire senior command staff—and only them. Over 2 senior commanders and political officers were suddenly recalled from the front by order of the SOR command without explanation—even before Oktyabrsky had begged for evacuation. The troops defending Sevastopol found themselves without command and control, and the defense collapsed instantly. Major General Pyotr Novikov, commander of the 109th Rifle Division, said in captivity: "We could have held out a bit longer, retreated gradually, and in the meantime organized the evacuation. What does recalling unit commanders mean? It would have destroyed it, sowed panic, which is exactly what happened."

              and also protects... fool
              1. 0
                28 December 2025 14: 07
                Quote: Olgovich
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                A man who strenuously defends the false Bandera version of the famine in the USSR - "Holodomor", a man who strenuously defends the false Polish-Nazi version of the execution of Poles at Katyn, a man who is far from opposed to the replacement of Russians with hordes of Islamist migrants.
                - and there is
                an accomplice of Banderovites and Anglo-Saxon enemies of Russia. And this man is precisely

                Olgovich, you're an impenetrable liar! After all, it was you who always called the famine of the 30s an organized Holodomor, pure Banderite, and it was you who fervently defended the Polish-Nazi version of Katyn. It was you who hypocritically wrote that it was a pity, of course, but replacing Russians with Central Asians was a bitter necessity. This is being verified... You're both a liar and stupid. A pure Banderite.

                Quote: Olgovich
                Eyewitness accounts have survived: while the general's son was being transferred to the submarine, submariners threw into the water and beat on the heads and hands with boathooks and boots those who swam toward the submarine in the vain hope of rescue. A total of 498 "responsible officials" were evacuated, including security officers and party bosses.

                And you, an accomplice of the haters of Russia, quote V.V. Voronov, whose last position was listed as
                Vladimir Vladimirovich Voronov
                Last position: Correspondent (Radio Liberty)


                And since you're a Banderite accomplice, I repeat, you're stupid. Because you don't understand that the means to maintain the defense of Sevastopol were exhausted, and a mass evacuation was also impossible due to planning errors. Or, as an accomplice of the Anglo-Saxons, you're a liar.
                And your hostesses performed it even worse...
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Bennett himself, along with several junior officers and accompanied by several local plantation owners, quietly abandoned his troops, reached the shore, and boarded a boat. Since further escapes were prohibited by his own orders, alarm was averted, and the Japanese remained unaware of the general's disappearance.
                1. -2
                  28 December 2025 16: 49
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  [/ Quote]
                  He's incredibly dishonest when he writes
                  You're an impenetrable liar! After all, it was you who always called the famine of the 30s an organized Holodomor, purely like the Banderites; it was you who fervently defended the Polish-Nazi version of Katyn. It was you who hypocritically wrote that it was a pity, of course, but replacing Russians with Central Asians was a bitter necessity. This is being verified... You're both a liar and stupid.
                  Pure Banderite[quote=Vladimir_2U]And you're quoting

                  witnesses of shame.

                  And since you
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  If you're an accomplice of Bandera's followers, then, I repeat, you're stupid. Because you don't understand that the ability to maintain the defense of Sevastopol was exhausted, and a mass evacuation was also impossible due to planning errors. Or, as an accomplice of the Anglo-Saxons, you're a liar.
                  then it won't dawn on you that you can't come up with a greater disgrace - by DECEPTING the soldiers, REMOVING all the commanders and abandoning them
                  1. 0
                    29 December 2025 03: 22
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    then it won't dawn on you that you can't come up with a greater disgrace - by DECEPTING the soldiers, REMOVING all the commanders and abandoning them

                    You, Olgovich, are lying, because there was no deception, nor was there a withdrawal of ALL the commanders.
                    At Petrov's suggestion, he became the commander of the 109th Rifle Division of the Primorsky Army Major General P. G. Novikov. Petrov, having stated that “further organized defense was excluded,” gave Novikov the order to hold the defense on the line between Cape Fiolent and the Pyatnitsky farm with the forces of a combat-ready group (in fact, to cover the evacuation) numbering over 5,5 thousand people.

                    On the night of July 2Having used up his ammunition, A. Ya. Leshchenko ordered the detonation of BB No. 35, then with a small group on a MO boat he was evacuated to Novorossiysk. At the same time, P. G. Novikov left the Chersonesus Peninsula on a patrol boat. (a few hours later, having accepted an unequal battle at sea, he was captured by the Germans): the organized defense of the SOR was completely stopped.



                    Of course, by the standards of your mistresses, Olgovich, to directly forbid your subordinates to run away, and to escape yourself under this deed - that is valor.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Well, thirdly, there were even more shameful ones, and among the owners of Olgovich:
                    On the evening of February 15, Bennett handed over command to Cecil Callahan, former commander of the Northern Sector artillery, who had just returned from the hospital, promoting him to temporary major general (this rank was officially confirmed only upon Callahan's resignation in 1947, but with seniority dating back to September 1, 1942). Bennett himself, along with several junior officers and accompanied by several local plantation owners, quietly abandoned his troops, reached the shore, and boarded a boat. Since further escapes were prohibited by his own orders, alarm was averted, and the Japanese remained unaware of the general's disappearance.


                    And yes, you, like the Banderites and their Anglo-Saxon mistresses, strenuously assert that the famine of the 30s was organized, and, like the Poles and German Nazis, that the Poles were shot by the Russians at Katyn.
                    And this means that you are an accomplice of the Banderites, the main Russophobes of Europe and the Anglo-Saxons.
                    Well, your hypocritical tears about how the replacement migration of Central Asian hordes to Russia is a necessary inevitability only confirms this.
                    1. -4
                      29 December 2025 14: 01
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      You, Olgovich, are lying, because there was no deception, nor was there a withdrawal of ALL the commanders.


                      Over 2 senior commanders and political workers were recalled from the front overnight by order of the SOR command without explanation
                      The troops defending Sevastopol found themselves without command and control, and the defense collapsed instantly. Major General Pyotr Novikov, commander of the 109th Rifle Division, said while still in captivity: "We could have held out a bit longer, retreated gradually, and in the meantime organized an evacuation. What does recalling unit commanders mean? It would destroy the defense, sow panic, which is exactly what happened."
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      And yes, you, like the Banderites and their Anglo-Saxon mistresses, strenuously assert that the famine of the 30s was organized, and, like the Poles and German Nazis, that the Poles were shot by the Russians at Katyn.

                      The stupidity of the top brass and the inability to govern the country are the reasons for the famine, and it wasn't the Russians who were doing the shootings, but the Co-ops
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      And this means

                      that he is an accomplice of Banderovites, the main Russophobes of Europe and the Anglo-Saxons.

                      Your gurus beat up Russians, expelled them into the cold, shot them - look for their bones on the islands of cannibals Nazino, Narym, etc.

                      And your second class brothers are coming, since the Russians were your enemies... - enjoy!
                      1. -1
                        29 December 2025 16: 28
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Over 2 senior commanders and political workers were recalled from the front overnight by order of the SOR command without explanation
                        The troops defending Sevastopol found themselves without command and control, and the defense collapsed instantly. Major General Pyotr Novikov, commander of the 109th Rifle Division, said while still in captivity: "We could have held out a bit longer, retreated gradually, and in the meantime organized an evacuation. What does recalling unit commanders mean? It would destroy the defense, sow panic, which is exactly what happened."

                        Once again, you are quoting an individual whose last job was Radio Liberty.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The stupidity of the top brass and the inability to govern the country are the reasons for the famine, and it wasn't the Russians who were doing the shootings, but the Co-ops

                        You're lying because you directly accused the countries' leaders of orchestrating the famine. Just like the Banderites. You even went so far as to "prove" that "Holodomor" is a purely Russian word, meaning intentional starvation as a means of murder.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        and it wasn't the Russians who did the shooting, but the Counselors
                        And here you're repeating the Russophobic lies of the Nazis and Poles. Because for both the Nazis and the Poles, ordinary Russia and communist Russia are the same. And yes, the Poles were shot by the Germans.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Your gurus beat up Russians, expelled them into the cold, shot them - look for their bones on the islands of cannibals Nazino, Narym, etc.
                        If you were even a little less deceitful, you would know that the ethnic composition of the "repressed" roughly corresponded to the ethnic composition in the USSR.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And your second class brothers are coming, since the Russians were your enemies... - enjoy!
                        And here you're lying, because the very same people who scream at every opportunity about how bad the USSR was are the ones who allow these wild Kharyps to come unhindered. That is, your brothers in mind. And not mine at all.
                      2. -2
                        30 December 2025 14: 59
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Once again, you are quoting an individual whose last job was Radio Liberty.

                        General Novikov? fool
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        You're lying because you directly accused the countries' leaders of orchestrating the famine. Just like the Banderites. You even went so far as to "prove" that "Holodomor" is a purely Russian word, meaning intentional starvation as a means of murder.

                        You're just lying - present these statements, they don't exist.

                        I repeat once again: the stupidity of the top brass and the inability to govern the country are the reasons for the famine.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        whether it's just Russia or communist Russia are the same

                        Aren't there enough Turaks?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And yes, the Poles were shot by the Germans.

                        yeah, they didn't really get there.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        If you were even a little less deceitful, you would know that the ethnic composition of the "repressed" roughly corresponded to the ethnic composition in the USSR.

                        If you were smarter, you would know that the Russians took the worst torment of commercial experiments
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And here you are lying, because wild Kharips are allowed to come freely

                        It is not the bourgeoisie, the nobles, or the kulaks who come, but the ardent your beloved classmates.

                        If you didn't like Russians, enjoy them. Look for them on the cannibal islands of Nazino, the execution pits of Narym, the embankments of the Pechora railway, and other socialist construction sites.
      2. -3
        26 December 2025 10: 18
        Dressed in women's dresses?
        1. -3
          28 December 2025 11: 37
          Quote: Grencer81
          Dressed in women's dresses?

          almost
          A participant in those battles, Lieutenant V.I. Voronov, described how Oktyabrsky approached the plane late at night, dressed in some civilian clothes, “in a shabby jacket and an unsightly cap.
          1. 0
            28 December 2025 16: 38
            And they let him onto the plane looking like that? And this Lieutenant V.I. Voronov stood at the steps and personally let him onto the plane?
            I recommend reading A.B. Shirokorad's "Battle for the Black Sea"...
            There is a better description there.
            After the collapse of the Crimean Front, Sevastopol was doomed. Its fall was simply a matter of time.
            1. -3
              28 December 2025 17: 23
              Quote: Grencer81
              After the fall of the Crimean Front, Sevastopol was doomed

              the question is HOW it was done
              1. 0
                28 December 2025 18: 31
                If the Great Commander Mr. Olgovich had not been the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, otherwise the Red Army would have already taken Berlin in June 1941, and Hitler would have been brought to Moscow in a cage...
                1. -4
                  29 December 2025 13: 50
                  Quote: Grencer81
                  The Great Commander Pan Olgovich was not the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.

                  100,000 heroes abandoned
                  1. -1
                    29 December 2025 18: 04
                    And Mr. Olgovich would have saved everyone, he would have carried them all out!!! Even if he had to carry them himself, he would have carried them out!!!
      3. +5
        26 December 2025 12: 48
        Quote: Olgovich
        The naval and defense leadership, having changed clothes, fled to the rear, leaving tens of thousands of heroic soldiers to flee.

        History does not know of a more shameful act.

        General MacArthur grins and lights a cigarette. wink

        Oktyabrsky and MacArthur were like twin brothers. Both evacuated the forces entrusted to them. And both did so with permission from above. Oktyabrsky even hedged his bets by securing it from both the naval and army chain of command.
        1. -2
          26 December 2025 19: 52
          Quote: Alexey RA
          October

          Oktyabrsky is only one of the host of escapees.

          But there were heroes who returned to their people.
  10. +12
    26 December 2025 06: 16
    Author, will you be deleting objectionable comments again? There's a lot of work to be done...
  11. +25
    26 December 2025 06: 26
    Skomorokhov? I thought it was Olgovich who wrote the article. So much hatred and venom...
    I say it again and again, it’s a pity there are no minuses for the articles.
    1. +22
      26 December 2025 08: 40
      Or my 1970))) The damned stones don't let him sleep either)))
    2. +7
      26 December 2025 13: 55
      Or a cumulative ban...
      While the author is listing numbers, names, and projects, it's readable, but as soon as conclusions are drawn... you want to wash your hands...
    3. -3
      26 December 2025 19: 55
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      so much hatred and poison...

      this is called TRUTH

      Instead of the venom and hatred that permeated your comment, refute something. How dare you...
  12. +12
    26 December 2025 06: 30
    /The Baltic Fleet, which remained in Kronstadt throughout the war and served as a target for the Luftwaffe/
    Tell me, aren't you ashamed!?
    Do you know why he "sat" there?
    I consider these words a mockery of the memory of the fallen submariners who died a heroic death during the breakthrough into the Baltic.
  13. +10
    26 December 2025 07: 12
    I disagree with the author of the article on many points. Regarding the illiterate peasants conscripted into the Imperial Navy at the beginning of the 20th century, I don't know from which aulokishlak class they were recruited into the Soviet Navy during the Brezhnev era, but there were some from Central Asia who, upon entering training, barely spoke Russian, practically no Russian, but after six months, they were already leaving for the ships as "specialists." It's safe to assume that the Imperial Navy at least recruited those who spoke and understood Russian fluently, albeit from peasant stock, so there was no need to teach them even Russian in that fleet. Until the end of WWII, the guns and equipment on Soviet surface ships weren't so sophisticated that even an illiterate person couldn't quickly learn to use them. And here the question immediately arises about the naval strategists and commanders of the Imperial Navy, after the development of navies worldwide, when machines on ships replaced sails and rifled artillery on ships replaced smoothbore naval guns. It was after this that the Imperial Navy's victories in naval battles dried up. So, "it wasn't the reel—the slob sat in the cockpit," that is, the problem was with the Admiralty admirals and the commanders of formations and ships. Again, training an illiterate sailor for his duties on the ships of that time isn't all that difficult. The greater difficulty arises when a gold-epaulet officer on the ships of that time is completely ignorant of his specialty.
    Speaking of naval training under today's liberals, Yeltsin essentially immediately disbanded the 32nd Naval Training Detachment in Mamonovo, which, over its 50 years of existence, had trained and graduated probably 100,000 naval specialist sailors for the Navy. In Pinsk, Belarus, the training center for the Russian Navy no longer trains junior naval specialists either. Is there only one training detachment left in Lomonosovo? Where does such luxury come from? Poverty, perhaps? Or is it because of the admirals in the Admiralty?
  14. +15
    26 December 2025 08: 00
    ...Perhaps this is a seditious idea, but the Soviet leadership never had a clear understanding of how to use the fleet.
    Today, is there an understanding of what a fleet should be like, the purpose of its existence, and the tasks it should solve?
    As for the caste system of the naval command staff, this only hinders the formation of a modern navy.
    In general, the article is provocative: the main message is that the trouble with our modern Navy mainly stems from the revolution of 17. So, dear author-->author-->authorMore than a century has passed since then! Count how many generations have passed. In that time, more than one naval doctrine could have been formulated, and not only formulated, but also put into practice. Yet our modern command sends a strike ship to deploy an "umbrella" for unknown targets, exposing it to attack. Meanwhile, it cannot monitor communications or disrupt weapons delivery to enemy ports.
    The problem with the fleet is not in the officers and sailors, but in the heads of the staff and admirals.
    1. +12
      26 December 2025 08: 25
      Sorry, but the article generated so much negativity that it spilled out in the previous post. The author mixed everything together: the weakness of the Pacific Squadron's command, Bronstein-Trotsky and Admiral Shchastny, Admiral Kolchak, the navy's actions during WWII, and the poor literacy and training of the lower ranks of the Imperial Navy.
      I want to give this article a big FAILURE!
      1. +5
        26 December 2025 14: 16
        And I will support you again...
        And for such an article title one could even fix one's face...
        This is disgusting...
        Roman Skomorokhov owes an apology to everyone he mentioned in the headline. And he mentioned, no less, the people...
        And publicly, just as he wrote... he shit, I mean...
      2. 0
        27 December 2025 20: 56
        You simply don't have the brains to comprehend and understand everything the author has laid out in this material. I served in the 10th Pacific Fleet Special Operations Command for 15 years and completely agree with him. Everything is true.
    2. +5
      26 December 2025 08: 39
      The problem with the fleet is not in the officers and sailors, but in the heads of the staff and admirals.

      As for the caste system of the naval command staff, this only hinders the formation of a modern navy.

      Whether on water or on land, the problems are the same...
    3. +7
      26 December 2025 08: 48
      Quote: Apis1962
      The problem with the fleet is not in the officers and sailors, but in the heads of the staff and admirals.

      Aim higher. The problem with our navy is that it's a very expensive toy. Given the perpetual shortage of funds and the desire to save money, naval command spends most of its time on endless plans, reports, and inspections, which have very little to do with actual operational safety. This trend has been evident since the advent of the steam engine, when the cost of operating ships skyrocketed. Countries that grew rich from plunder and the slave trade could afford a capable navy, while countries living on their own, particularly the underdeveloped agricultural sector of the Russian Empire, could not. It's basically the same thing now.
      1. +1
        26 December 2025 10: 04
        The problem with our fleet is that it is a very expensive toy.
        Rather, the problem is that the surface fleet is viewed as a toy, rather than as an instrument of state defense and an element of that state’s policy.
        1. +2
          26 December 2025 10: 48
          Quote: Apis1962
          Rather, the problem is that the surface fleet is viewed as a toy.

          Quite possible. But given the issue of money, priorities are being established. Given our size and geography, I personally don't see the possibility of creating adequate forces in all areas. Accordingly, the emphasis is on the land component. Although now, given the pressure on our merchant fleet and the Kaliningrad Region supply fleet, the conditions are being created for understanding the Navy's role in Russia. Real combat operations defending our interests will ultimately shape the Navy's command structure to the required level.
          1. +4
            26 December 2025 14: 22
            Quote: qqqq
            But, given the issue of money, priorities are being established. Given our size and geography, I personally don't see the possibility of creating adequate forces in all areas.

            No ground forces will be enough to protect the country and ensure its interests without a navy.
            The navy is not a toy. And there's always a price to pay for a disregard for it. But it's not the leaders who pay, it's the people.

            The main difference of the fleet is its inertia and construction time.
            Simply put, to put everyone in the Baltics on edge, we should have been thinking about this 30 years ago and building ships for at least the last 25 years. Then we would have had not only the hardware, but also the personnel.
            Where all this is - you know without me...
    4. +2
      26 December 2025 14: 13
      A thousand times right.
      Whatever task is set, that is what they carry out.
      As it is put, so is the result.

      The author is not a provocateur - it's his disdainful attitude towards all sailors; he simply considers them cattle... so he writes what he thinks...
    5. 0
      26 December 2025 21: 02
      If sailors and officers are unable to fight off motorboats (BECs), perhaps the problem lies with the officers and sailors themselves?
      1. -3
        27 December 2025 14: 52
        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
        If sailors and officers are unable to fight off motorboats (BECs), perhaps the problem lies with the officers and sailors themselves?

        What a shame... And you're suggesting that we fight back with bare hands and salty sailor words?
        The fact that ships are still not fully equipped with detection equipment or fire weapons is in no way the fault of the officers, and even less so the sailors.
        1. 0
          27 December 2025 16: 18
          Are automatic cannons and machine guns not enough to fend off motorboats? Enemy motorboats are visible, and at night, searchlights are available for illumination.
          Someone else was supposed to fight off the BEKs for the crews?
          1. -1
            27 December 2025 17: 43
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Are automatic cannons and machine guns not enough to fend off motorboats? Enemy motorboats are visible, and at night, searchlights are available for illumination.

            Do you imagine there are several of them per ship? That's at best, with a small missile ship and a missile ship, one each. Do you imagine it's easy to hit a high-speed target with an unstabilized weapon, even with the slightest pitching motion? Well, AK-630s aren't stabilized. And the machine guns, where they were installed (and weren't installed on ships where there's no room for them), aren't stabilized either. And if you think a PK is enough to destroy a BEF, you're seriously out of touch.
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Enemy motorboats are observed visually, and at night there are searchlights for illumination.
            A BEK isn't a motorboat. A BEK is both low-profile and less vulnerable, since it's unmanned. It's also harder to detect than a Kazanka, and you seem to think a BEK is a Kazanka. And finding low-observable targets visually with searchlights... It's a bit more difficult than you imagine.

            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Someone else was supposed to fight off the BEKs for the crews?
            Well, I suspected you weren't particularly bright, but not that bright... No matter how courageous and skilled the crews, without timely detection, without stabilized, sufficiently powerful weapons, without night vision equipment and modern radars, defending a ship, even all-round, is difficult, if not impossible, especially when there's no power. And the failure of weapons, detection equipment, and security organization isn't the crews' fault.
            1. -1
              27 December 2025 20: 51
              Friends, what are you arguing about?
              Have you forgotten how two dashing women in Sevastopol shot up two BEKs with machine guns back in 1923? They were shown on every channel, and then they were awarded. So, shooting up BEKs with machine guns is a piece of cake for the heroic sailors of the glorious Black Sea Fleet!
              I'm still laughing.
              1. 0
                27 December 2025 21: 46
                We argue about the "unparalleled" combat training of the Black Sea Fleet crews, which, according to the sofa marshal, Vladimir_2U The AK-630 installation for firing at small surface targets is completely unsatisfactory.
                1. -1
                  27 December 2025 22: 23
                  The women who "shot" BEKI are a different story. Stupid, blatant propaganda, modeled on the Glavpur [General Directorate] during the Great Patriotic War. There was complete chaos there, everyone who could shot, and the heroism was painted on the women.
                  I don’t know who they were, to whom, or how they were related, but from my experience in service I know three categories of women in the service:
                  1. Someone's daughter.
                  2. Someone's wife
                  3. Someone's mistress.
                2. -2
                  28 December 2025 06: 33
                  Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                  We argue about the "unparalleled" combat training of the Black Sea Fleet crews, who, according to the armchair Marshal Vladimir_2U, are completely dissatisfied with the installation of the AK-630 for firing at small surface targets.

                  Am I personally too weak in the knees to write this?
                  Maybe because they are prone to easily exposed lies?
    6. -2
      27 December 2025 21: 57
      Quote: Apis1962
      In general, the article is provocative: the main message is that the problem of our modern Navy mainly stems from the revolution of 17.

      That's exactly it. I've been convinced of this ever since I was a lieutenant.
      Competent ship commanders never became fleet commanders or commanders-in-chief. Those promoted to these positions were mostly mediocre individuals like Chirkov, with whom I had the honor of serving in the same brigade.
  15. +12
    26 December 2025 08: 33
    Yeah, right. A lot has been written, and it's evil. "Then" there were officers, and "there" there were bad officers... Just like Turgenev's "Fathers and Sons." A lot of nonsense. But some of the ideas are correct. Some are just a bunch of text.
    There have always been officers. Under Peter, under Nicholas, and under Stalin...
    The problem is personnel selection. If we need loyalists, not smart ones, then that's the result. If the databases are "electronic launches," then that's the result.
    I fired torpedoes once or twice a year. One at a time. Sometimes I didn't even fire. So what? There's no point in such training. It's just for show.
    Just firing ranges, shooting ranges, the sky, the sea, and shooting, shooting... Combat and physical training. It will be useful. Expensive and time-consuming. Very expensive. And just a shooter—thousands of rounds fired, just a pilot—flying and shooting, etc.
    Otherwise, they'll call up reservists for air defense to shoot down drones. Ridiculous.
    Only combat and physical training. Every day. It will be useful under Peter, Nicholas, and Putin.
    1. +3
      26 December 2025 14: 26
      Training, and more training, is the only way to "later" reap the rewards of what's been invested in the army and navy. You're 100% right...
      It's not "biathlons" and pretty caps (and they're hideous with that stupid crown and ridiculous cockade) that make an army. That's how they spend the budget.

      Suvorov has been forgotten...
    2. 0
      27 December 2025 22: 01
      Where in the USSR were the most grandiose naval parades held?
      Correct - to the Black Sea Fleet.
      Where is the Black Sea Fleet now?
      That's right. In the ass.
      Do you catch the connection?
  16. BAI
    +2
    26 December 2025 08: 37
    For the fleet to function smoothly and effectively, personnel were needed. And these personnel needed to be technically competent and suited for such service.

    Here we can recall Catherine the Great, after the review of the Baltic Fleet:
    "There are many ships and people, but no fleet or sailors."
    In general, the author is right – the modern Russian navy has completely screwed up. If war breaks out in Europe, the Baltic Fleet will suffer the same fate as the Black Sea Fleet, unless nuclear strikes finish the job first.
  17. +7
    26 December 2025 08: 39
    The successor to the "mummy" and "chronicles of the revolution" wanted his share of "glory"... Judging by the comments, he got it! Well deserved!
  18. +10
    26 December 2025 08: 48
    I wonder if they'll ever bring back the ups and downs for articles, or are they afraid the authors will run away?
    1. +3
      26 December 2025 10: 42
      Are they afraid that the authors will run away?

      drinks
    2. +3
      26 December 2025 14: 28
      Quote: 27091965i
      I wonder if they'll ever bring back the ups and downs for articles, or are they afraid the authors will run away?

      Some will definitely run away...
      But a holy place is never empty drinks
  19. -6
    26 December 2025 08: 54
    The Soviet fleet completely lost the Great Patriotic War,


    No, he didn't lose. Especially since this war was fought primarily on land.
    We need to think (and write accordingly) more systematically. Naval operations are more closely tied to ground forces and depend largely on air confrontation. Initially, the Luftwaffe had air supremacy, particularly in the Black Sea, which determined the low effectiveness of our navy. When the situation in the air changed, it became easier for naval forces to fight as well.
    The successes of the Kriegsmarine, especially surface ships, in WWII were also rather modest.
  20. +2
    26 December 2025 09: 10
    The downvotes for the articles have been removed. It's a shame. Well, at least I'll give the article a MINUS here.
  21. +7
    26 December 2025 09: 10
    The fleet of the period 1941-1945 is the heroism of the rank and file and the stupidity of the command staff.
  22. +7
    26 December 2025 09: 11
    The article is short: neither in the Empire, nor in the USSR, nor in modern Russia does the government understand why it needs a navy, and the result is its complete uselessness for the country and the embezzlement of funds by its leadership.
    1. -1
      27 December 2025 22: 06
      And so it is.
      Only in the Russian Empire did they truly understand what a navy was for—for imperial purposes. That's why they ended up in Port Arthur, Finland, and the Baltics.
  23. 0
    26 December 2025 09: 14
    It's infuriating when everyone blames Yeltsin, forgetting who's been in charge since August 1999. Compare the Yeltsin-era Navy of 1999 and the current one of 2025. Just compare.
    1. -2
      26 December 2025 10: 44
      Compare the Yeltsin-era Navy of 1999 and the current one of 2025. Just compare.

      What do you want to compare?
      number of "boxes"?
      or combat training of sailors?
    2. +1
      26 December 2025 10: 50
      During Yeltsin's time, they were "eating up" the USSR's legacy.
  24. -6
    26 December 2025 09: 20
    .
    The lynching of sailors in Sevastopol in December 1917 – February 1918 resulted in the murder of about 700 officers and non-commissioned officers of the Black Sea Fleet.
    These are the styles for the defeat of the Atrocities detachments on the Don by the Cossacks in November 1917.

    The article is bold and truthful.
    plus.!
  25. +8
    26 December 2025 09: 21
    It's strange that the author didn't mention Admiral Kuznetsov, unlike Isakov. Yet he was the People's Commissar of the Navy during the war. He wasn't afraid to issue the order to put them on full combat alert on the night of June 22, which prevented the loss of ships and naval aviation. Unlike the army generals and marshals.
    1. 0
      26 December 2025 10: 14
      L.P. Beria also gave an order to the NKVD border troops to put the border troops of the western districts on full combat readiness before the attack on the USSR.
    2. -1
      26 December 2025 18: 21
      In the Baltic Special Military District, troops were in readiness since the 18th
    3. +1
      27 December 2025 22: 12
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      He was not afraid to give the order on the night of June 22 to put them on full combat readiness, which made it possible to avoid the loss of ships and naval aviation.

      So, no one bombed the ships. They only dropped mines in Sevastopol and then flew back safely. Not a single plane was shot down. And the naval aviation didn't interfere in any way. Why bomb them?
  26. 0
    26 December 2025 09: 31
    We type in the search engine - "Graphomania".
    "A morbid urge to constantly compose, a pathological passion for writing texts that have no artistic value due to the author's lack of talent and self-criticism."
    As usual, horses and men got all mixed up. Every situation ALWAYS requires a detailed examination, taking into account a host of circumstances, and if you take on this burden, it suddenly becomes clear that in the conditions in which, primarily due to geography, our fleets operated, NO ONE acted better.
    "A gun on the shore is worth a ship at sea," Nelson said. Sadly, the navy couldn't operate freely while within range of shore-based weapons. The British managed to hold their own only thanks to their vast stockpile of warships, although they suffered losses...
    In general, as usual: the author is not the reader.
  27. +4
    26 December 2025 09: 33
    A good article, Roman. It's a pure provocation, of course, but it won't leave anyone indifferent.laughingGuaranteed for two hundred comments.laughing
    1. +1
      26 December 2025 10: 47
      Guaranteed for two hundred comments

      By the way, the number of comments is an accurate characteristic of any article: and better than "+" or "-" (which, by the way, do not exist).
  28. +5
    26 December 2025 09: 36
    I once counted the number of executed commanders of the Navy and Air Force fleets.
    In the Navy before Kuznetsov, only people who had arrived by chance and quickly abandoned their posts survived.
    According to the Air Force, the latter were shot during WWII.
    So from this side - he is right...
    1. 0
      27 December 2025 22: 16
      He's right, of course. But no one here can object. Because they're unable to comprehend these facts in relation to the system of the dictatorship of the proletariat.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  29. +3
    26 December 2025 09: 41
    Quote: saigon
    Excuse me, but who ordered the sinking of ships and frigates during the Crimean War? It wasn't the navy that made the decision. Excuse me, but who was running from Goeben? Maybe he was running from ours. And can you tell me who laid those dense minefields near Sevastopol during WWII? Isn't this some kind of Zen thing? Don't break your heart. Although the article is utterly strange, but...

    Let's try it in order:
    1. The Crimean War. So, you're sailing the Twelve Apostles, close-hauled, and the steam-powered Napoleon is cutting into your bow from underwind. What should you do? Just think quickly, because in a few minutes you'll be left without a foremast after taking a broadside.
    2. Goeben’s actions were quite successfully neutralized by the Black Sea Fleet;
    3. It was Goeben's actions in WWI that forced the mining of the approaches to Sevastopol. To anticipate a tight siege of Sevastopol and the loss of Odessa, one would have needed a time machine, and the combat experience of the previous war was readily available.
    1. -2
      26 December 2025 14: 07
      The approaches to Sevastopol were mined.
      And the Goeben maneuvered on this field without a care in the world.
      It turns out that some noble admiral did NOT order this field to be turned on, and the noble officer operator did not show any initiative.
      By the way, during the shelling of Vladivostok by the Japanese in 1904, EXACTLY THE SAME situation occurred.
  30. +4
    26 December 2025 09: 57
    Every investment must pay for itself. The Navy is no exception.

    The Vikings took an immeasurable amount from England and Europe. The Spanish repeated the trick with the Incas and others. Britain sucked India dry for centuries. The Americans gained control of Middle Eastern oil and are now about to gut Venezuela.
    For all of them, the Navy is a vital necessity and an instrument of the country's economy.

    The experience of Russia and the USSR shows that a navy simply for the sake of a navy is an anchor that drags the country to the bottom. hi
    1. -2
      26 December 2025 10: 20
      Quote: Arzt
      For all of them, the Navy is a vital necessity and an instrument of the country's economy.

      Hmm, and what kind of economic tool are SSBNs for the US?

      Quote: Arzt
      The experience of Russia and the USSR shows that a navy simply for the sake of a navy is an anchor that drags the country to the bottom.
      A naval blockade of Ukraine and ensuring our shipping, including that of the "shadow" merchant fleet, is a completely economic necessity. However, such tasks are not within the ̶S̶e̶n̶k̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶p̶k̶a̶n̶ command...
  31. +1
    26 December 2025 10: 12
    To begin with, I would like to tell the author that the rank of conductor in the navy of the Russian Empire corresponded to the rank of ensign in the army; both were the highest non-commissioned officer ranks received by long-term servicemen of the army and navy.
    The rank of ensign in the Russian army was already an officer's rank, but it had no equivalent in the naval officer ranks. Although the navy had Admiralty ensigns, reserve civilian ensigns were considered naval or mechanical ensigns.
  32. -1
    26 December 2025 10: 47
    Before we address the personnel issue, let's answer the question: why do we need a navy at all?
    To whom and why?
    Submarine fleet. It's clear that the state needs it as a guarantee of sovereignty, so it can "hit" if necessary. That's the bare minimum. The maximum is to prevent the enemy from firing, or at least to hinder/thin out their salvo.
    Surface fleet. Submarine support? Well, maybe near home shores; the surface fleet will quickly run out at sea. Launch missiles from docks? Well, land-based launchers will be cheaper; they can be made now. "Showing the flag"? Will they be afraid of our flag?
    The icebreaker fleet is a positive example. In terms of tonnes and horsepower, they've already built at least enough for a fully equipped icebreaker group, with two planned. Who needs icebreakers, no need to explain?
    1. +1
      26 December 2025 12: 05
      *Surface fleet. Submarine support? Well, maybe only on home shores; at sea, the surface fleet quickly runs out :(*
      So, nothing else comes to mind except helping the submarine? That's why the questions are: *Who and why??*
      Historically, the fleets of various countries had *trade destroyers* in their ranks, that is, ships, for example cruisers, were built for these tasks, German raiders went to sea.
      Nothing has changed now. Ukrainian attacks on Midvolga 2, Valery Gorchakov, Rusich-2, Sig, and Sormovsky-3064 are proof of that.
      And then the non-fighter (Roman) comes out and says, "Who needs this fleet? Let our merchant ships go out with cargo, and the Ukrainians can attack them at will and so on. They're training."
      1. -4
        26 December 2025 12: 20
        Raiders. They ended in the satellite era. Soon, a satellite constellation will monitor every square meter of the planet 24/7/365(366).
        Regarding the practice of raiding. Take World War I, for example. Did the German raiders, who prepared in advance, survive long? And not just the raiders themselves, but also their supply system. We have no bases outside our borders, nor are there any friendly states that could provide their ports and supplies, by and large. Forget about raiding; it doesn't exist.
        Regarding the attacks you described. So, should we escort every one of our (precisely ours, flying our flag!) merchant vessels? Or organize a convoy system? Okay, let's assume the ideal scenario, where our warship is in the right place at the right time. What can it do besides provide assistance to a vessel in distress? Take the Baltic Sea as an example. A military helicopter from one of the coastal states approaches our tanker in an obvious attempt to land an inspection team of "environmentalists," reinforced by marines who "simply" want to check documents and ensure there are no "environmental problems or risks for their country." What should our warship do in such a situation, should it happen to be nearby? Should we remind them of the size of the Baltic Fleet? And that nothing larger than a boat should be in that puddle? Should we shoot down the helicopter?
        1. +1
          26 December 2025 13: 13
          *So, should we escort every single merchant ship of ours (precisely ours, the one flying our flag!!)? Or organize a convoy system?*

          Or organize a convoy system, like the one we had when we took Mariupol.

          I mentioned corporate raiding as an example, saying that the methods have changed, but the goal remains the same.
          so that..

          *Okay, let's take the ideal scenario where our warship is in the right place at the right time. What can it do besides provide assistance to the distressed vessel?*

          Yes, of course, the Navy is only needed as rescuers, based on your twisted logic.

          P.S./ The whole point of your post is that the country doesn't need a modern, combat-ready navy, and let merchant ships survive on their own. You're an optimizer, a breed of effective manager.
          1. -1
            26 December 2025 13: 29
            P.S./ The whole point of your post is that the country doesn't need a modern, combat-ready navy, and let merchant ships survive on their own. You're an optimizer, a breed of effective manager.

            You know, I didn't resort to personal attacks, unlike you. I take it that insulting your opponent is your most effective argument in a dispute? With that, I'll take my leave.
    2. -2
      26 December 2025 18: 19
      You've already cancelled tanks, artillery, aviation, and now the navy... Before you start writing an article, especially in regards to the Great Patriotic War, you could have read the works and lectures of Miroslav Morozov, and then written about it... otherwise you've just thrown in some 90s crap a la Suvorov-Rezun.
      1. -1
        26 December 2025 18: 27
        You have already cancelled tanks, artillery, aviation, and now the navy.

        Um... can you quote me? Where did I retract all of that?
        As for escorts... The closest equivalent to escorting our own merchant ships is a military patrol in a crime-ridden area. The soldiers are trained, equipped, and armed, but they can't do anything without permission from command. "Do whatever you want, just don't use live ammunition." They'd just be pelted with stones, and they'd have nothing to fight back with.
        1. -2
          26 December 2025 18: 55
          And you've got a self-explanatory nickname, I applaud you. Look through your archives, read the articles carefully, and you won't ask such questions. My nephew served his mandatory military service in the navy, in the Mediterranean, and the Atlantic. They calmly dispatched those idiots with their rusty Kalashnikovs, and no one said a word. Overall, I'm disappointed. Although the Voronezh region has always been rich in talent, this article is absolute crap.
          1. 0
            26 December 2025 18: 58
            Although the Voronezh land has always been rich in talent, the current article is rubbish.

            You've confused me with the author of the article :(
  33. 0
    26 December 2025 10: 50
    Thank you, Roman!
    I have always criticized you, but now I bow to your courage to tell the people the bitter truth, knowing the reaction in advance.
    Everything is correct about replacing knowledge and skill with skills and showmanship. Both the "ideologically committed" and "class alien" points are spot on.
    Stalin recognized the collapse of the Marxist utopia in time, but he was only partially successful in steering back onto the imperial track. All these heirs of Trotsky and loyal Leninists were drawn toward a convenient utopia, where privileged positions in the Tsar's box were reserved for them. Thus the Empire rolled along the patterns of the notorious "pyramid schemes," with a predictable end. A sort of black magic session with exposure.
    Now we have to clear away the firebrands.
  34. +2
    26 December 2025 11: 22
    The lack of preparation and outright illiteracy of commanders who are incapable of planning

    Mr. Skomorokhov, I will not discuss Yaroslavna's lament for the nobles who died in the navy.
    I'll just touch on the fact that most of the criticisms of the navy's passivity were based on limitations in its material resources, which could have been partially addressed. But most navies dealt with this in exactly the same way during combat, and I'd like to point out that the British, for example, were left in the lurch when they found themselves in Asia in the same conditions as the Baltic Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet at the start of the war, under combined enemy attacks.
    Therefore, to somehow attribute all the problems to the commanders is, at the very least, unfair and false,
    Although losses to naval aircraft were largely due to the incompetence of a number of officers, I'll again cite the example of the Italian Navy. They faced exactly the same problems as the Black Sea Fleet.
  35. +9
    26 December 2025 11: 24
    Quote: fuffi
    Yeah. Lost the country. How could they have driven the officers so far into hating the rank and file sailors that they then killed them like dogs? They obviously deserved it. For some reason, the crunchy bakers are keeping quiet about the brutal treatment of the sailors in the navy.

    This is precisely what they've been doing for centuries, especially in the navy—corporal punishment, boulevards and parks reserved for the officers! Well, the serfs' patience finally snapped in 1917!
  36. -1
    26 December 2025 12: 05
    One can imagine the level of "training" of Comrade Dybenko. No, he made a truly remarkable executioner in Tambov, Sevastopol, and Kronstadt, but in all other respects, Dybenko showed no signs of success.
    My childhood and youth were spent in Moscow on Dybenko Street.
    He was a highly respected person in the USSR.
    1. +2
      26 December 2025 12: 18
      Your words would have been interesting in Soviet times. But now in Russia, people revere hucksters, Kolchak, Solzhenitsyn, and Ilyin. And the destroyer of the country deserves an entire Yeltsin Center.
      1. 0
        26 December 2025 12: 22
        But now in Russia, traders are revered, Kolchak,
        Mannerheim was forgotten
        Nowadays in the Russian Federation you can read anyone you want, it’s not forbidden.
        It is forbidden to criticize certain people in the media
        1. +2
          26 December 2025 12: 27
          Didn't you just say the same thing? In the USSR, Dybenko was revered, but he showed no leadership success. Kolchak was a master hanger. Solzhenitsyn was a talented liar. Ilyin called for the destruction of the USSR...
          1. -5
            26 December 2025 13: 43
            I don't understand what you're talking about. Dybenko was revered because he was, first and foremost, a prominent revolutionary. I don't know what kind of leader he was—I didn't work under him.
    2. -2
      27 December 2025 22: 30
      It is highly symbolic that the forge of Black Sea Fleet officers – the Nakhimov Black Sea Higher Naval School – is still located on Dybenko Street.
  37. +3
    26 December 2025 12: 06
    analogue of a land warrant officer.


    This is the equivalent of a SOVIET (modern Russian) ensign.
    Because a warrant officer in the Russian Empire is equivalent to a Soviet junior lieutenant. It's the first officer rank, not the last non-commissioned officer rank.
    Accordingly, the equivalent of a land-based ensign in the navy is an admiralty ensign, or naval ensign. For example, Georgy Sedov, the conqueror of the North, began his officer career as a reserve naval ensign.
  38. +2
    26 December 2025 12: 24
    Back then, at the dawn of the USSR, the emphasis was on party loyalty with minimal preparation. We know what that resulted in.

    This resulted in the victory of the USSR in World War II.
    This resulted in the country becoming the world's second largest economy 25 years after the establishment of Soviet power.
    This ultimately resulted in naval history, in that for the first time in the history of Russia, its fleet became the number 2 fleet in the world, and the submarine fleet number 1.
    1. -1
      27 December 2025 22: 37
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      This resulted in the victory of the USSR in World War II.

      With catastrophic losses. The Russian Empire never dreamed of such losses.
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      This resulted in the country becoming the world's second largest economy 25 years after the establishment of Soviet power.

      Where did you get this information? From the Short Course?
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      This ultimately resulted in naval history, in the fact that for the first time in the history of Russia, its fleet became the No. 2 fleet in the world, and the submarine No. 1

      The submarine also became number 1 in terms of submarine losses in peacetime.
      But the surface ship did not participate in any combat operations.
      What is there to be proud of?...
      1. 0
        28 December 2025 06: 11
        What is there to be proud of?...

        It's hard for me to advise anyone who has no pride in the achievements and victories of their homeland and lives by the propaganda of the Perestroika era: "Yeah, a short course in the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks)" wassat
        Go and be proud of the growth of Russian participants in the Forbes list.
    2. -2
      28 December 2025 00: 22
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      This ultimately resulted in naval history, in that for the first time in the history of Russia, its fleet became the number 2 fleet in the world, and the submarine fleet number 1.

      I came across this article about the world's number one submarine today: It describes very well the lives of submariners in the 1980s, the heyday of the world's number one submarine fleet.
      2. An honest confession from the BC-5 commander. | Naval Stories | Zen
      This article was written by the commander of the BC-5 submarine S-176, Alexander Alievich Akayev.
      …Submariners were forced to live in their submarines for months.
      The compartments were heated with electric heating pads. The galley generally worked without issue. The latrines were also no problem at low temperatures: at night, everyone could go to the aft deck at the same time to adjust the settings. But there was a rule: everything you "worked up" had to be thrown overboard with your right or left boot (depending on the client's preference). You weren't the last one, and there was no dive base planned, so there was nothing to wash it off with. The most difficult part was the "bathhouse."
      But this event was under the special supervision of political officers. So, here's a more detailed explanation. On Saturday, the political officer and his assistant, who carried a can of "Taranka" or something stronger and some chocolate, came to the surface ship and arranged for the personnel to be washed.
      If the case was successful, thirty conscript sailors were offered two fifteen-minute showers. The showering technique was specific: wet your hair completely, step away. Lather it up, rinse. If your chest wasn't particularly hairy, you were lucky. The whole thing took fifty-five seconds.
      The political officer no longer cared where or how a warrant officer or officer would wash (there were no instructions). It was considered a personal matter. And everyone handled the bathing issue their own way. Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky had a decent municipal bathhouse. For 60-80 kopecks, you could shower alone for an hour and do your laundry, too.
      Otherwise, the officers' and warrant officers' daily routines differed little from those of petty officers and sailors. The command staff, acting senior officers (four people), were housed in their own cabins (a 1,8 x 1,4 meter walk-in closet). The doctor was in the officers' mess room (also the operating room). The rest were on bunk beds in the compartments. However, upon the command "Rise," one could, if desired, exceed all army regulations: jumping into boots, which were drying near the bunk, didn't take much time (clothing was removed only in the bathhouse).
      Well and comments:
      Sergey Zotov, hello. Yes, this is a very accurate description of the daily life of Magadan submariners. With the blessing of the brigade and flotilla command.
      Igor Yashkin Dec 24
      In Vladivostok, the crew lived in a sort of barracks in Maly Ulysses. There was no running water, little heating in winter, toilets didn't work, and they had to go into the bushes outside. They slept fully clothed. The officers slept on extra chairs in the barracks every other day or every night, because there was usually no crew. The crew in the self-propelled guns constantly had to be rounded up. And then came the 1990s.

      SERGEY ZOTOV Dec 23
      Hello. Yes... the crew's life during the winter is truly terrifying! Some Saki from Sovgavan once came to our division for the winter. Everything was covered in ice. They were moored at a distance on the first pier. Of course, they also lived in boats, as there was no room for them in the quarters or on the icebreaker.
      Tir An24 Dec
      Yeah, right. We experienced practically everything described above when we were on the "big circuit." Submarine B-187 (No. 13). That's when they assemble a mixed crew and send them to Komsomolsk-on-Amur for training at the training center and the submarine's acceptance at the shipyard. No one there was prepared for our arrival. The barracks at the training center for the sailors were unprepared. The dormitory turned out to be completely filled with cops, migrants, gypsies—everyone but submariners. We were put up in the dormitory of the polytechnic college, not far from the Ryabinushka cafe.
      They warned us that the first floor was for teachers, the second floor was for men, and the third floor was for women. And that no, meaning no advances toward underage students. The ban wasn't enforced for long. Soon, almost everyone had scattered to different floors. Then they kicked us out to the dorm on Kirov Square. Meals were served in the UC cafeteria.
      After launching, we moved to Bolshoy Kamen. There, we lived in a metalworking shop set up on a floating pier. We slept in an iron shed on planks laid on bedside tables. The only bedding was mattresses.
      After joining the Navy in January, they transferred to Ulysses, 19th Brigade, pl. They lived on the submarine for two months, then the conscripts were moved to the floating workshop, and the officers and warrant officers to the Indian dormitory.
      After transferring to Magadan, conscripts lived in barracks, stationed at the Magadan Komsomolets, midshipmen, and officers lived in the barracks in a penitential manner, smoking with smokers, non-drinkers with non-drinkers, at Marchekan in the fishing port.
      Then they transferred us to P-Kamchatsky for the winter. Everyone lived on board the submarine for six months. It was a disaster. Almost six months of self-sufficiency. Trouble was brewing. The commander was told that if they didn't provide a decent living, there would be a refusal to go to sea, a protest at the parade, and so on. Just then, the Minister of Defense arrived for an inspection. It reached the top...

      Yes, life on the 613th project was far from perfect. But for conscripts, life almost 100% depends on their length of service. On the 641st project from Polyarny, while undergoing dry dock repairs at the Roslyakovo shipyard, I lived on a boat as a soldier (there were about 20 of us). We slept on a homemade plank rack in the first compartment. We were constantly hungry, so the rations we brought ourselves in a wheelbarrow were eaten by the older guys, and we'd get whatever we could get. It's a good thing we could find some pasta and cereal on the boat from previous combat deployments; we'd pour it into the canister. Under the boat on the slipway deck, there's a steam vent, a hose goes in, and a few minutes of food would be ready to fill our bellies, though without salt. The shower was somewhere in the factory, there I picked up a fungus on both feet, then we went to the BS, my feet swelled up, for a couple of weeks I was practically jumping on my hands from the 7th to the central one on the steering wheel and back.
  39. +1
    26 December 2025 12: 38
    If you count how many competent and capable officers and generals have been dismissed over the past 25 years, how many academies and military schools have been cut, and if you recall the contributions of Serdyukov and Shoigu to building the army, it turns out that the author is 100 percent correct in his merciless criticism of the Bolsheviks and the events of 80-100 years ago.

    Well, the pearl "the loss of the Scharnhorst is absolutely akin to the loss of the Kharkov in the Black Sea for the Black Sea Fleet" is worth a lot. Thank you.
  40. -1
    26 December 2025 12: 52
    To complete the picture, it was necessary to remember Tsushima.
  41. +3
    26 December 2025 13: 01
    I read this article and couldn't believe my eyes....
    The author writes automatically - "everyone around is stupid" and only the author is in a white tuxedo?
    If you're too lazy to read reports on the navy before the revolution and during the Soviet era, then at least Novikov-Priboy can be mastered...
    If we accept the author's idea as a semblance of truth, then the fleet could not leave the pier at all; the ships were populated by stupid villagers, and the ships' commanders did not know where to steer or how to give commands without the author's help.
    Amazing nonsense...
    The article's advantages include many accurate sketches, but in my opinion, the author has deliberately distorted the overall picture.
    The author considers himself a great naval expert, and in many ways he is, but behind the iron there are always people. It's sad that the author couldn't understand and accept this.
  42. +6
    26 December 2025 13: 53
    I get it - the communists are stupid bastards who could neither lead a fleet nor achieve victories for the fleet.
    And why?
    Because they are NOT NOBLEMEN!!!!!
    True, the nobles in the navy DROWNED the Black Sea Fleet in 1854 completely and without a fight, and the 16 thousand most qualified personnel of the armed forces who were brought ashore were DESTROYED (15500 people) in infantry battles in Sevastopol, while 100 thousand Russian ground troops ran around the Crimea, periodically getting beaten up by the Anglo-French.
    Then - Russian-Japanese.
    There the FLEET led fearlessly SURRENDERED or INTERNED without causing any damage to the Japanese fleet!
    For example, during the battle, the Varyag fired 655 shells of various calibers without hitting a single Japanese ship.
    Well, the nobles were in charge, no nonsense!
    And in 1914-1917?
    One "Goeben" drove the entire Black Sea Fleet into a frenzy, and even shelled Nikolai's dacha in Crimea.
    All 6 acres.
    Well, and all the coastal cities were also shelled.
    And in the Baltic? What were the results of the noble-Russian fleet's activities?
    NOTHING!
    A division of British submarines based at Kronstadt sank more German tonnage than the entire Russian Baltic Fleet!
    author, your article is, of course, based on "serious" sources: the film "Admiral" and the archive of the magazine "Ogonyok" for 1989-1991.
    But we read other books too - we learned to read at school.
    Although not nobles.
    1. +8
      26 December 2025 15: 34
      Quote: Seamaster
      One "Goeben" drove the entire Black Sea Fleet into a frenzy, and even shelled Nikolai's dacha in Crimea.

      Is this the Goeben that twice failed to deal with four EBMs? In fact, only three EBMs actually took part in the battles, and squadron fire was nonexistent.
      Every encounter between the Goeben and the Black Sea Fleet ended the same way: the light cruiser turned away and disengaged. Actually, when the Black Sea Fleet's light cruiser appeared, instead of simply disengaging, the Goeben fled in a zig-zagging fashion. smile
      Quote: Seamaster
      Well, and all the coastal cities were also shelled.

      Carefully selecting those where there was no coastal defense or Black Sea Fleet forces.
      The German-Turkish LCR was not even able to help its army defend Trebizond, after which the Turkish forces in the Caucasus lost their only normal port.
      1. -5
        26 December 2025 17: 35
        [i]This is the "Goeben" that twice failed to cope with four EBRs."
        Is that your humor?
        ONE battle cruiser "Goeben" could not cope with FOUR squadron battleships, EACH of which had artillery and armor comparable to the enemy.
        The only thing was that they were inferior to him in speed.
        1. 0
          29 December 2025 11: 25
          Is that your humor?

          Counter question: is this your kind of humor?
          ONE battle cruiser "Goeben" could not cope with FOUR squadron battleships, EACH of which had artillery and armor comparable to the enemy.

          Well, yes, well, 305/40 or 280/50 mm is the same, the fact is that the battleship has 4 guns, and the Goeben has 10 guns, plus a higher rate of fire (2 for the Russians and 3 for the Germans per minute).
          One "Goeben" drove the entire Black Sea Fleet with pissed rags,
          The only thing was that they were inferior to him in speed.

          So tell me how the Russian battleships (or the entire Black Sea Fleet) escaped from the Goeben...
        2. +1
          29 December 2025 11: 48
          Quote: Seamaster
          ONE battle cruiser "Goeben" could not cope with FOUR squadron battleships, EACH of which had artillery and armor comparable to the enemy.

          Each of which lagged a generation behind the Goeben in artillery and air defense. And, yes, since when are 4x305mm comparable to 10x280mm?
          When Eberhard split the squadron at the Bosphorus, the Goeben couldn't even handle a pair of Evstafiys. He exchanged fire with them (without scoring any hits) until the Panteleimon arrived, which put the 12" to rest.
          In general, the Goeben "drove" the entire Black Sea Fleet strictly according to the proverb:
          Wow, we would have given them a run for their money!.. if they had caught up with us.
        3. 0
          30 December 2025 13: 04
          Quote: Seamaster
          ONE battle cruiser "Goeben" could not cope with FOUR squadron battleships, EACH of which had artillery and armor comparable to the enemy.


          Except maybe the armor. In all other respects, the Goeben was superior. Back then, technical development was rapid, and our squadron battleships weren't even a thing of yesterday, but the day before yesterday.

          Well, the "Koreets" cruiser, the "Varyag"'s comrade, also had a fairly large caliber. But what could the "Koreets" actually do against even light enemy cruisers at Chemulpo?
      2. -3
        26 December 2025 18: 05
        The German-Turkish LCR was not even able to help its army defend Trebizond, after which the Turkish forces in the Caucasus lost their only normal port.

        In fact, Trebizond was taken by the Russian ARMY; the Turks had no sea cover.
        But they somehow didn't think of driving the Goeben into the mountains.
        And the Russian battleship and two destroyers that fired a couple of times somewhere there - it was NOT THEY who took Trebizond.
        1. 0
          29 December 2025 11: 58
          Quote: Seamaster
          In fact, Trebizond was taken by the Russian ARMY; the Turks had no sea cover.

          The entire offensive of the Primorsky detachment on Trebizond was carried out exclusively due to the fire support of the fleet, which successively destroyed the lines of Turkish defense with the fire of its ships, landed troops and transported reinforcements.
          The mighty Goeben, "chasing the Russian fleet," didn't come to the aid of its troops even when the Rostislav alone was razing the Turkish trenches. And when the Black Sea Fleet, with the Rostislav and Panteleimon, almost at point-blank range, razed the last line of defense before Trebizond—at Hamurkan—the Goeben, for some reason, didn't chase them away.
  43. -1
    26 December 2025 14: 08
    Why do we spit in the mirror if our face is crooked?
  44. -2
    26 December 2025 14: 53
    Hmm... What is "Admiral Gorshkov's fleet" and what is it famous for? Perhaps victories in naval battles? The lack of ship and submarine losses during peacetime? And isn't that same Black Sea Fleet now commanded by the "glorious fledglings of Gorshkov's nest"?
    1. -1
      27 December 2025 22: 43
      He became famous for his naval parades, including the landing of troops pushing floating portraits of Brezhnev.
  45. 0
    26 December 2025 14: 57
    Skomoroshya Pravda. Ugh, you.
  46. +4
    26 December 2025 14: 58
    But the ship... with its mechanisms and instruments... yes, it was something incredibly complex for the average citizen of the Russian Empire to understand.

    Moreover, it was complex, in part, because the engineers tried to make the equipment as safe as possible for use by lower ranks with low technical literacy.
    The notorious overcomplication of Russian naval turrets, which led to a reduced rate of fire, was caused by the turrets being saturated with interlocking mechanisms that prevented the operational cycles—such as loading—from being disrupted. Training a small number of qualified specialists to maintain this electrical and mechanical system was, in theory, cheaper than training the entire turret crew.
    The result was simplicity and safety in operation ("even a child can load our gun"), which was bought at the price of constant minor malfunctions in peacetime and major problems during wartime, when all these devices worked (or did not work) under fire.
    1. 0
      26 December 2025 18: 27
      WHOSE engineers did this and WHOSE equipment was being built on Russian ships at that time?
      For example, the "best in the world" Russian destroyer "Novik":
      Let's look at its "guts":
      - Curtis turbines, manufactured by the German joint-stock company "Vulkan" (3 units). Some authors write about Parsons turbines (which had higher efficiency but were more complex), but this is most likely a mistake. During Soviet times, the "Yakov Sverdlov" was definitely equipped with "AG Vulkan" turbines.
      - boilers "Vulcan" (6 pcs.)
      -fans, German
      -electrical equipment (direct and alternating current, all German)
      -pumping equipment (all German)
      -radio equipment (all German)
      -Geisler fire control devices
      - four-inch OSZ-Vickers artillery (well, at least something almost ours)
      At first, the destroyer lacked speed, and in 1913 (a year remained before the war) it was modified at the Vulkan shipyard in Stettin.
      1. 0
        29 December 2025 19: 02
        Quote: Seamaster
        WHOSE engineers did this and WHOSE equipment was being built on Russian ships at that time?
        For example, the "best in the world" Russian destroyer "Novik":

        So, the lead ship is a fundamentally new type - what do you want from the domestic industry?
        The USSR designed its first destroyer with Italian assistance. The truly domestically designed LD Leningrad proved completely inadequate during testing, down to the point of being unable to fire multiple rockets due to its insufficient hull strength. The Navy accepted the ship and returned it to the shipyard, where it spent two years being refurbished under the naval flag.
        The USSR wasn't above accepting foreign orders either. Parts for the Uragan-class cruiser were ordered from all over Europe. Twelve sets of gas turbine engines and auxiliary mechanisms for the Project 12 cruiser were ordered from Britain. The main propulsion plant for the lead Project 26 cruiser was ordered from Italy. The gas turbine engine for one of the Project 23 cruisers was ordered from Switzerland.
  47. kig
    -3
    26 December 2025 14: 59
    I wouldn't be surprised if the author is very soon accused of compromising, discrediting, slandering...what else is on the list?
  48. -6
    26 December 2025 14: 59
    Thank you, Roman, for your honest assessment of the fleet.
    1. -1
      26 December 2025 18: 13
      An assessment can only be made based on facts and documents, not a collection of myths and outright lies that have been circulating since the 90s. Read or watch Miroslav Morozov's lectures. I hope it will clear things up, and articles like Skomorokhov's will stop inspiring enthusiasm.
  49. +2
    26 December 2025 15: 03
    When you read about Kraskoms, you remember effective managers like Rogozin.
  50. 0
    26 December 2025 15: 08
    It smells like crap. Written by the corrupt and uneducated! You should have at least read history: the disintegration of the army and navy was started by your beloved bourgeoisie when they overthrew (precisely the bourgeoisie) the worthless emperor who got involved in the First World War and killed a ton of people.
    1. +2
      27 December 2025 03: 07
      And some propaganda, it seems
      Don't cry to yourself quietly,
      Don't shed bitter tears in vain!
      Throw away your oath, take up your rifle,
      And kill your boss!
      Did the bourgeoisie make this up?
  51. +2
    26 December 2025 16: 30
    Quote: Vasily_Ostrovsky
    but as soon as conclusions are drawn... you want to wash your hands...

    And also the eyes...
  52. +5
    26 December 2025 17: 52
    The problem of the Russian Empire's fleet was the WILD technical illiteracy of the NOBLE command staff.
    The privileged Naval Corps (white bone and blue blood only) graduated midshipmen for the position of "officer of the watch".
    That is, stand on the bridge next to the lookout and also... look forward.
    Only the sailor looks with his eyes, and the officer - through binoculars.
    That's it!
    And so on until the expiration of the CENSUS.
    They couldn't even measure the area or pinpoint its location. We won't even mention the engine room or electrical system.
    For all this, there was a non-noble riff-raff—the untitled officers of the Naval Engineer Corps. And a civilian navigator.
    It sounds like a joke, but in response to a request from the commander of one of the first Russian submarines to purchase spark plugs for the submarine's engine in France, ADMIRAL Biryulev, who also oversees the submarine fleet, wrote a resolution: "No problem, stearin ones will do."
    They threw people like that overboard in 1917 - and the sky didn't fall to earth.
    1. +1
      26 December 2025 18: 41
      So who then plotted the route, determined the location, and directed the firing? There were plenty of untitled nobles on all the ships. Or perhaps you meant hereditary nobles?
  53. +1
    26 December 2025 17: 57
    Let's get back to the topic of the article. The author writes that our navy's problems are due to the fact that personnel were selected based on ideological rather than professional principles. Oddly enough, even professional personnel don't guarantee success.
    Let's look at Nazi Germany. Following World War I, the Germans lost their navy, but they retained their core personnel, who became part of the new Kriegsmarine.
    Germany's occupation of Norway in 1940, Operation Weserübung. The Germans accomplished their mission, but the main losses were borne by the "high command."
    The loss of the heavy cruiser Blucher, as it happened:
    1. We took a completely new ship, the paint had just dried, with possible imperfections.
    2. They put a new crew on it, who hadn't really gone through all the training (I could be wrong, but they didn't have any general training on life-threatening situations, they didn't have time)
    3. Loaded up to the masthead with troops and their fire- and explosive-hazardous cargo.
    4. Sent to storm the capital.
    Naturally the ship was lost.
    Next, Narvik.
    Read the wiki https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narvik
    One sentence struck me most: "The destroyer Raeder, which had been on patrol at night at the entrance to Ofutfjord, returned to port early in the morning due to confusion in orders, without waiting for relief (anchoring at 5:20)."
    P.S. As for Raeder, I believe that with his military service he honestly deserved the medal "For the Victory over Germany."
    1. 0
      27 December 2025 03: 26
      The author writes that because the personnel were selected not on a professional basis but on ideological principles...
      When selecting and placing personnel, didn't the Germans take into account ardent loyalty to the ideas of National Socialism? Perhaps they used their personnel more judiciously. Any "surviving" Social Democrats were sent to "unreliable" units (like repair battalions).
    2. 0
      27 December 2025 21: 42
      Well, even a super-trained crew with extensive combat experience and doctorates in technical sciences would not have helped the Blucher.
      The cruiser was sailing along a narrow Norwegian fjord, and on the shore stood a camouflaged old torpedo tube, undetected by German intelligence.
      A torpedo (or several) from a distance of 3 cables.
      As the saying goes: "Spades are trumps, and yours don't dance."
      It was like a Kamaz truck came out of an alley and hit the Zhiguli sideways.
      Neither experience nor noble origin will help here.
  54. -1
    26 December 2025 18: 11
    The navy has had, continues to have, and will continue to have problems, and not just in our country. But in this vile opus, Skomorokhov has thrown in a bunch of pseudo-facts and outright lies... Anyone interested in the role of our navy in the Great Patriotic War, all the shortcomings, victories, and tragedies, should look it up or read military historian Miroslav Morozov... The article is pure filth.
  55. +1
    26 December 2025 18: 36
    I wonder if the author knows the names of such veteran naval specialists as Belli, Shvede, and Galler? And these are only a few of the naval officers who went to serve the Soviet government.
  56. 0
    26 December 2025 19: 21
    "The Soviet Navy completely lost the Great Patriotic War."
    A false, anti-Soviet article. I'm not even talking about such gems as the Navy. We've had a Navy our whole lives.
  57. -3
    26 December 2025 20: 06
    I read the comments and came to a conclusion- Great article, thank you, Roman..

    This is how it should be written - sharply, directly and correctly. hi
  58. +1
    26 December 2025 20: 30
    Everything is correct in principle, but:
    "So why didn't the fleet conduct a single sensible operation in the Black Sea during the entire war? Why did the Germans and Romanians calmly withdraw from Crimea, while the entire might of the Black Sea Fleet was unable to stop them?"
    Aviation. Until 43, the Germans had overwhelmingly effective aviation. All ships sailed at night and hid in Novorossiysk, just like today. Therefore, it's time to talk not about problems with the fleets, but about problems throughout the invincible and legendary Red Army.
  59. -5
    26 December 2025 20: 53
    If you dig deep enough into Roman Skomorokhov (the same Banshee, the one about whom some nasty things are known), you'll discover that, in addition to being an anti-Soviet and Russophobe, you're also a Banderite. Which, in fact, is precisely what his efforts, in the form of the text above, prove. Author, have you been making yourself into a gentleman for a long time?
  60. -4
    26 December 2025 21: 12
    I've never read such insane nonsense about the Russian and Soviet navies. Kudos to the author for this—this creation is beyond human ability and understanding. Its great value lies in the fact that all its assertions are utterly flawed. And it's well known that a person who is always wrong is as valuable as one who never makes mistakes.
    One word about the quality of the Tsarist admirals and their fleets in the late 19th and early 20th centuries—Tsushima—is enough. There are many more, but that's enough.
    The defense of Leningrad and Stalingrad is also quite sufficient for the Soviet admirals and their fleet.
  61. +1
    26 December 2025 22: 11
    Quote: gsev
    With the advent of the steam engine, the Russian fleet could not boast of success against its European adversary.

    And, alas, during the days of sail, too. There were isolated victories over the Turks (Sinop, Navarino...), but nothing more.
  62. 0
    26 December 2025 22: 50
    These are the forces that confronted the Black Sea Fleet. Funny? No, it makes me want to cry.

    The advance of German ground forces and the dominance of German air power disappeared from the naval strategist's attention. And the German fleet failed to sink a single Soviet surface combatant ship or minesweeper in the Black Sea.
    All the destroyers and one old cruiser were lost to aircraft and mines. The vast majority of submarines were also lost. Soviet submarines stopped the export of oil from Romania to Italy via the Black Sea. The evacuation from Odessa was the most successful such operation in the Black Sea in this war, given the enemy's complete air superiority.
  63. -1
    26 December 2025 23: 31
    The evil spirits crawled out and vilified the entire fleet and every single sailor. I don't remember the Skomorokhov counts and princes. So why such hatred for one's own people?
    1. -2
      26 December 2025 23: 39
      + 100500!
      Right on target...
  64. -2
    27 December 2025 00: 12
    Regarding Shchastny, there's a video online featuring Professor K.B. Nazarenko about the real background of this case. That buffoon Skomorokhov is simply ignorant. The Khrustobakers' favorite thesis is about the rabble, who are incapable of anything, and their "smart and capable" lords, who nevertheless lost both the Russo-Japanese War and WWI. In general, the buffoons are a phenomenon: stupid, ignorant, unwilling to learn anything, but self-assured and arrogant nobodies. Couch riffraff.
  65. 0
    27 December 2025 00: 33
    If the red-finned mankurts are furious, then what is written is correct.
    1. -1
      27 December 2025 18: 08
      That's how they usually blurt things out. What kind of anger can there be towards fools? Only sympathy...
    2. +1
      28 December 2025 11: 39
      Quote: Obliterator
      If the red-finned mankurts are furious, then what is written is correct.

      so they can’t refute anything, that’s why they’re so furious...
  66. P
    -2
    27 December 2025 01: 53
    There's no need to cry about the lynching of officers. Due to the nature of life on board ship, sailors and midshipmen were quite good judges of their officers. And there's no need to wring your hands during reprisals when you behave like an occupier in your country and with your subordinates.
  67. +2
    27 December 2025 03: 17
    Those clever, noble naval commanders of the Tsar didn't exactly shine in 1904-05. Or were the ignorant peasants getting in their way?
  68. +1
    27 December 2025 03: 55
    In short, the Russian Navy was a kind of vacuum cleaner, sucking in technically skilled personnel from all over the country every year...
    But during the times of "developed socialism," the navy, with every draft, pulled in soft-cheeked non-students and sent valuable (three-year-trained) specialists to the national economy.
    But then the liberals destroyed such an effective system of personnel training. (And they continue to gnaw at its very roots.)
    The author came very close to the elephant.
  69. -1
    27 December 2025 04: 53
    Of course, it must be so, since literate people write such things in their highly intelligent articles...
    Just explain, esteemed author, to this humble and wretched descendant of those same three-quarters of the Russian Empire's population, how on earth did those high-brow nobles who made up the Imperial Navy's officer corps manage to lose both Port Arthur and Tsushima? Did those gray-haired, bast-shoe-wearing peasants fail us again? Stokers, engineers, and gunners of all sorts...
    Or maybe it wasn't the reel that was the problem?...
  70. -2
    27 December 2025 09: 58
    The Northern Fleet had no enemies? Interesting... Apparently, submarines and the Tirpitz weren't considered enemies. The Northern Fleet demonstrated quite decent effectiveness in escorting convoys and conducting submarine warfare, and no Bolsheviks interfered.
    But the problems of other fleets are directly related to geography and the fact that their main bases were in direct reach not only of aircraft, but also of barrel artillery, like Kronstadt and Sevastopol.
  71. +2
    27 December 2025 12: 49
    According to German data, the Soviet fleet in the Black Sea had one battleship, five cruisers, three leaders, 13 destroyers, four gunboats, 12 patrol ships, 15 minesweepers, 21 small hunters, 81 torpedo boats, and 44 submarines. The Italian and German fleets consisted of as many as 10 submarines: five German and five Italian, plus a dozen Italian torpedo boats. The Romanian fleet had three destroyers, two minelayers, and one submarine.

    It is customary for us to carefully avoid one of the main questions: why did the Germans and their allies have so few ships against our Black Sea Fleet, not a single warship larger than a torpedo boat (we don’t count the Romanians)!
    I've come across the opinion that the Germans and the Italians were supposedly more interested in fighting in the Mediterranean, allied convoys, Malta, etc.
    If so, why did even the few Italian torpedo boats have to be towed overland through the Crimean Mountains (see photo), while the disassembled submarines were transported from the Baltic via rivers and the Danube to Romanian and Bulgarian ports, where they were reassembled? It's perfectly clear that had they been able to freely navigate the Turkish Bosphorus, the Axis fleet in the Black Sea would have been much more formidable, especially since it was the southern flank of the Eastern Front, the main front of WWII.

    The answer is simple, but silent: the Turks, fulfilling international obligations and under pressure from their allies, refused to allow the Axis fleet to pass through their straits.
    It's clear that even German equipment can't drag a cruiser or even a destroyer through the mountains, and the depths of the canals and rivers are not suitable for large ships...
    I understand that Turkey holds the record for the number of wars with Russia, our old sworn "friend," and for many, Turks are all kinds of things, but the truth in this case is more valuable if we are dealing with history, and not with jingoistic patriotic propaganda...

    It's a shame, but the German air force largely ensured the Fritzes and Italians' dominance in the Black Sea—the era of bombers and torpedo bombers had arrived. Meanwhile, our battleships, cruisers, and destroyers became large, easy targets...
    Apparently, the sinking of the brand-new British battleship Prince of Wales and battlecruiser Repulse by Japanese bombers and torpedo bombers on December 10, 1941, and subsequent Japanese victories, left a lasting impression on the Soviet leadership. Therefore, our aging, only battleship in the Black Sea, the Parizhskaya Kommuna, was moved, out of harm's way, first to Poti, and then all the way to Batumi. Apparently, they would have moved it further, but beyond that was the Turkish border...

    https://foto-history.livejournal.com/9706428.html

    https://history.milportal.ru/boevye-dejstviya-podvodnyx-lodok-stran-fashistskogo-bloka-na-chyornom-more-v-1941-1944-gg/?print=print

    In the photo below:
    1. The battleship "Paris Commune" fires at the fortifications of German-Romanian troops. January 1942.
    2. Italian torpedo boats are being towed to Yalta through the Crimean mountains.
    1. -1
      27 December 2025 19: 32
      Well, why only "Repulse" and Co.?
      Almost all battleships and aircraft carriers in World War II were destroyed by coastal or carrier-based aircraft.
      A year before Repulse, English "string bags" (something like our U-2) sank three Italian battleships.
      Pearl Harbor - 6 battleships. And also planes.
      "Bismarck" is also a string bag and also BEFORE "Repulse".
      And no Tsushima-style artillery battles for you.
    2. -1
      27 December 2025 23: 03
      Quote: Timofey Charuta
      2. Italian torpedo boats are being towed to Yalta through the Crimean mountains.

      That's complete nonsense. These aren't the Crimean Mountains. There's no such turnoff on the old road from Simferopol to Yalta.
      Where are they dragging them from?... From Yevpatoriya? You should at least think about that...
      if there is something to think about.
      The boats arrived under their own power.
      1. -1
        28 December 2025 10: 25
        Quote: Silhouette
        That's complete nonsense. These aren't the Crimean Mountains. There's no such turnoff on the old road from Simferopol to Yalta.
        Where are they dragging them from?... From Yevpatoriya? You should at least think about that...
        if there is something to think about.
        The boats arrived under their own power.


        My response to Mr. Name-caller, aka Silhouette
        Insults instead of arguments are the weakness of the Insulterer's own position, who invented the idea that torpedo boats were dragged to Yalta through the mountains from... Yevpatoria.
        "The boats arrived under their own power" - where exactly did they arrive "under their own power" and how did they get there if the Turks didn't allow them through the Bosphorus?

        In the book "The Black Prince" by Valerio Borghese "The Tenth Flotilla" it is clearly stated for those who can read that ten boats of the flotilla and auto-tractor equipment were transported from La Spezia (via Verona - Brenner - Vienna - ... to Simferopol). by rail.

        Borghese writes in his book:
        "Our column was transferred to Crimea by rail. On May 6th, we left La Spezia and, via Verona, Brenner, Vienna, Krakow, and Tarnopol, arrived at the old Russian border on the 15th. Then, passing through Dnepropetrovsk, we arrived in Simferopol on May 19th. This is where our rail route ended. After disembarking from the wagons, the column continued on its own. On May 21st, we arrived in Yalta...
        Finally, on May 22, the column arrived at its destination in Foros—a charming town located on the beautiful southern coast of Crimea, not far from Balaklava and south of Sevastopol. Here, our group pitched tents under the shade of walnut trees. First, we laid a rail track and constructed a wooden slipway to transport our assault weapons to the seashore and launch them. Thanks to the assistance of a German sapper company, this work was quickly completed...
        Borghese's memoirs are here:
        https://militera.lib.ru/memo/other/borghese/06.html - прежде чем ругаться, стоит их почитать...

        Photo taken from here:
        https://waralbum.ru/21054/ - здесь в коментах много интересного, но не для обзывателей...

        As I understand it, it's not me who needs to be called names and scolded in every possible way, but the Black Prince Borghese, who for some reason came up with (according to Silhouette's logic) this whole story with the boats...

        The hurrah-patriots don't understand that by attacking proven facts they are only harming their own cause...
      2. +1
        29 December 2025 10: 49
        https://topwar.ru/272043-problema-chernomorskih-prolivov.html

        Today's article on "VO" is a definitive response to the "Crimean Mountain experts" and the nasty bastards who write that Italian cruise ships sailed "under their own power" to Yalta from Yevpatoria, and it's unclear how they got there when the Turks closed the straits. And, you see, these "experts" also resort to name-calling...
  72. 0
    27 December 2025 13: 45
    Here is the author's last name, it says it all...
  73. 0
    27 December 2025 15: 58
    Respect to Roman Skomorokhov. He raises sensitive issues and receives hostility for it. Anyone knowledgeable on the topic at hand, please provide a well-reasoned response on this site. There should be discussion, not bullying based on personal animosity.
    1. 0
      27 December 2025 19: 46
      I am not familiar with the author and therefore have no personal animosity towards him.
      But the main idea of ​​the article is flawed.
      Over the last 150 years of the empire's existence, the Russian nobility has become like worms, draining the empire's lifeblood.
      Stupid, ossified in defending ONLY its own interests.
      Technological progress was taking place all over the world, but this high-ranking rabble was trying to slow it down in every possible way, realizing that they would be stupidly devoured by the growing industrial bourgeoisie.
      The army was forced to somehow change and master new technology (Russia was at war almost all the time), and the naval admiralty and officers were a bunch of arrogant, uneducated and stupid blockheads.
      Which led to disasters in 1854, 1904 and 1914-17.
      Name at least one Russian admiral of the 19th and early 20th centuries who became as famous as Ushakov and Nelson.
      No.
      About Makarov - no need.
      He was neither a naval commander, nor a polar explorer, nor a scientist.
      There was only proletarian origin.
      For which he was glorified under the communists.
    2. -3
      27 December 2025 23: 05
      It's bullying, really. Barking and howling. Blind malice and incompetence. Cheap propaganda cliches.
  74. +1
    27 December 2025 17: 52
    Maybe the article should have been called...
    "What kind of admirals, such is the fleet..."
  75. -1
    27 December 2025 20: 02
    Well, what can I say? It's a damning verdict, and we need to appeal to the Prosecutor General's Office and reexamine the entire history of the Great Patriotic War. And everyone named in the article, by name, should be stripped of their ranks and executed. author He accused everyone of "everything and everything" so "convincingly" and "convincingly" that it's simply... There are no words. Authors like him are a disaster. How can anyone even stand him on this site? Sometimes he writes seemingly reasonable things, and sometimes (like this article). That's my opinion, and I have a right to it!
  76. +1
    28 December 2025 00: 47
    So, out of harm's way, our aging, only battleship in the Black Sea, the "Paris Commune," was moved first to Poti, and then all the way to Batumi. Apparently, they would have moved it even further, but beyond that lies the Turkish border...

    How many times must this very primitive propaganda be refuted?
    1. The heavily armored ships of the Black Sea Fleet fought most actively in the first year of the Great Patriotic War, when the enemy was advancing on land and enjoyed overwhelming air superiority. They also provided artillery support for ground forces, supplied supplies, and evacuated naval fortresses. In this way, they made the greatest contribution to victory on the main (Eastern Land) Front during the decisive period of the war. Their contribution to the war was greater than that of the German and Italian fleets combined, as well as the British and French. Add to this the contributions of the Volga Flotilla in the defense of Stalingrad, the Caspian Flotilla, and the Caspian Flotilla, and this conclusion is beyond doubt.
    2. During the entire war, of the large armored ships of the Black Sea Fleet, only one old cruiser was irretrievably lost.
    3. Compare the contribution of the Black Sea Fleet to the war and its losses in the First and Second World Wars.
    4. War is not the Olympic Games. There are no separate disciplines in war—war on land, war at sea, war in the air, and then medal classification. In war, there is only one victory for all—you can't "win" a war in the air and at sea and "only" lose on land.
    1. -1
      28 December 2025 10: 50
      How many times must this very primitive propaganda be refuted?
      "1. The heavily armored ships of the Black Sea Fleet fought most actively in the first year of the Great Patriotic War, when the enemy was advancing on land and had enormous air superiority. They also provided artillery support for ground forces, supplies, and the evacuation of naval fortresses..."

      During the "evacuation" of the naval fortress of Sevastopol, not a single large ship, larger than a minesweeper or submarine, was present! Hence the tragedy of the heroes of Sevastopol, effectively abandoned by their command to be captured by the Germans. The evacuation from Odessa took place successfully under the noses of the Romanians, because they were Romanians, not Germans...

      https://militera.lib.ru/h/manoshin_is/02.html
      "The limited evacuation of troops from the Sevastopol defensive region, in the face of the impossibility of evacuating everyone, with the departure at dawn on July 2, 1942, of two minesweepers and seven patrol boats from the 35th coastal battery, which took on board, mainly from the water, about a thousand people, effectively ended there.
      The arrival of five patrol boats and several submarines the following night could not solve the problem of evacuating thousands of troops. The task assigned by the SOR command to rescue the combat core of the Primorsky Army and Coastal Defense—two thousand senior commanders and political officers assembled at the 35th Coastal Battery—was practically a failure. The scattered remnants of troops remaining in the limited coastal area of ​​Kamyshevaya and Kazachya Bays, the 35th Coastal Battery, and the Chersonesos Peninsula, numbering approximately 50–60, of whom approximately half, if not more, were wounded to varying degrees, deprived of a unified command, and most importantly, ammunition, food, and fresh water, were doomed to defeat and capture despite their heroic resistance.
  77. +2
    28 December 2025 01: 03
    Almost all battleships and aircraft carriers in World War II were destroyed by coastal or carrier-based aircraft.

    Submarines' contribution to the destruction of aircraft carriers is comparable to that of aircraft, and they were also quite effective at sinking battleships.
    A year before Repulse, English "string bags" (something like our U-2) sank three Italian battleships.

    The Swarfish is in a different weight class than the U-2. It weighs three times as much, has an engine roughly six times as powerful, has a range three times greater, and can carry a 700 kg torpedo.
    1. 0
      29 December 2025 12: 51
      Whatever you say, the "Avoska" is a biplane - a "U-2 on steroids" with a speed of 222 km/h (!!!).
      Their Japanese counterpart and contemporary, the Nakajima B5N1, is a monoplane with a speed of 365 km/h (!!!).
      I won't even mention the Soviet torpedo bomber "DB-3F" (422 km/h) and the German "He-111 H6" (430 km/h), but they are shore-based.
      But the pilots on these "string bags" are beyond all praise.
      1. 0
        29 December 2025 13: 14
        So what? Did speed matter for a torpedo bomber? Our DB-3F wasn't really suited for that role. Yes, it was relatively fast, but it was bulky and unmaneuverable. It was actually easier to hit with an Oerlikon than with a string bag, which, like biplanes, had excellent maneuverability.

        And let's not forget that torpedo release occurs at the prescribed launcher speed, which is not very high. So the Swordfish's speed advantage is completely irrelevant. Torpedo release, like bombing, also occurs at low altitudes, and after the attack, it's necessary to quickly change direction and altitude, which is more difficult for a heavy monoplane than for a light and maneuverable biplane.

        The Soviet pilots in their heavy twin-engine DBs deserve real praise. They had the highest chance of dying; even the Il-2 attack aircraft fared better, dying less frequently.
        1. 0
          29 December 2025 13: 19
          Quote: Illanatol
          The Soviet pilots in their heavy twin-engine DBs deserve real praise. They had the highest chance of dying; even the Il-2 attack aircraft fared better, dying less frequently.

          Well, according to statistics, the best results against ships were shown by dive bombers and attack aircraft with masthead bombing...
          1. 0
            29 December 2025 13: 31
            Quote: Konnick
            Well, according to statistics, the best results against ships were shown by dive bombers and attack aircraft with masthead bombing...


            More likely, against ships. Neither side deployed very many ships in WWII.
            We clearly messed up with torpedoes back then; we only produced large and heavy ones, but there weren't many worthy targets for them, and their power was excessive. Perhaps we should have launched torpedoes with a smaller mass and power, since most targets weighed less than 10 tons. Then we wouldn't have had to send long-range bombers against ships; the Il-2s would have performed better.
            1. 0
              29 December 2025 13: 36
              Quote: Illanatol
              Quote: Konnick
              Well, according to statistics, the best results against ships were shown by dive bombers and attack aircraft with masthead bombing...


              More likely, against ships. Neither side deployed very many ships in WWII.
              We clearly messed up with torpedoes back then; we only produced large and heavy ones, but there weren't many worthy targets for them, and their power was excessive. Perhaps we should have launched torpedoes with a smaller mass and power, since most targets weighed less than 10 tons. Then we wouldn't have had to send long-range bombers against ships; the Il-2s would have performed better.

              The 46th assault aviation regiment of the Northern Fleet, even without torpedoes, destroyed, as you say, more ships than the Baltic and Black Sea fleets combined.
              1. 0
                29 December 2025 13: 41
                Quote: Konnick
                The 46th assault aviation regiment of the Northern Fleet, even without torpedoes, destroyed, as you say, more ships than the Baltic and Black Sea fleets combined.


                So what? The Baltic Fleet, in particular, provided air cover for Leningrad, and its Main Commander-in-Chief attacked Wehrmacht units. I'm not sure an attack aviation regiment could have handled something like that.
                The fleet has many tasks, war is more than a duel between ships.
  78. 0
    28 December 2025 03: 00
    A conductor is the highest rank among non-commissioned officers, equivalent to a land warrant officer.

    According to RIA, "ensign" is the most junior officer rank in the infantry and artillery. Apparently, the author was referring to ensigns in the Soviet and modern Russian armies.
  79. -2
    28 December 2025 03: 30
    You can build all sorts of nuclear-powered destroyers and aircraft carriers, arm them with hypersonic weapons, lasers, blasters, and railguns, but if the crews are staffed by these eternally sleepy Unified State Exam (USE) victims, even those who write with mistakes, it will be about as useful as it was a century ago.

    Currently, the term of compulsory service on Navy ships is only one year. What can a "victim of the Unified State Exam" learn during that period? Just to avoid setting the ship on fire, falling overboard, or getting his hands caught in the capstan during mooring?
    Modern naval ships, especially submarines, require increasingly higher qualifications, including from the enlisted personnel. Their service life must be at least five years, and seven on submarines. Contract service should be primarily recruited from merchant, river, and fishing fleets, motivated, among other things, by significantly higher salaries than in the ground forces.
  80. 0
    28 December 2025 08: 44
    Quote: Technician_Harlan
    And, alas, during the days of sail, too. There were isolated victories over the Turks (Sinop, Navarino...), but nothing more.


    Yeah, what a trifle: to destroy almost an entire fleet while being numerically inferior.
    By the way, did our sailors give the Swedes a beating?
    And, let me remind you, the vaunted European powers did not always have brilliant victories, even over the same Turks.
    1. 0
      29 December 2025 12: 57
      Well, about Sinop, not everything is so clear-cut.
      Google carefully WHAT kind of fleet it was and WHAT CONDITION it was in.
      Burst into a pigsty with a Kalashnikov and have a good hunt...
      But what kind of Turkish fleet later participated, together with the British and French, in the blockade of Sevastopol and the Black Sea?
      Dead people or "flying Turks"?
      1. 0
        29 December 2025 13: 04
        Oh, come on. Nakhimov's Russian ships were also... not Kalashnikovs, more like Berdan rifles.
        Well, let's say the Turkish fleet played only a supporting role in the Crimean War. The Ottoman Porte had all sorts of vassals, Algerian beys, and so on... So why not "regard" it if the enemy had no fleet in the Black Sea at all, having sunk it in the roadstead?

        A fly, perched on the head of an ox with a plow: "We plowed the field well." The Turks were brave only behind the French and the English. In the Caucasus, they were a piece of cake. After the campaign, Sevastopol was exchanged... for a then-Turkish town, which the Russians recaptured from the Sultan. Today, that town is called Yerevan.
        1. 0
          30 December 2025 14: 36
          Didn't they change Sevastopol to Kars?
          The army actually made good progress deep into Turkey, where there were fewer nobles.
          But the fleet - alas...
  81. +1
    28 December 2025 16: 05
    If the author had removed a video, or even two, from each number written, it would have been a little more believable. But as it is, the article is a definite minus!
  82. +1
    29 December 2025 14: 28
    During the "evacuation" of the naval fortress of Sevastopol, not a single large ship, larger than a minesweeper or submarine, was present! Hence the tragedy of the heroes of Sevastopol, effectively abandoned by their command to be captured by the Germans.

    Only thanks to the Black Sea Fleet, including its large ships, was the defense of Sevastopol possible for a full eight months! It became one of the main stabilizing centers for the entire front during the most dangerous and difficult period, and it was held longer than expected thanks to the fleet alone.
    It was a miracle that Sevastopol was defended for so long under such conditions, and it was clear to everyone that evacuation was impossible as early as May 1942. It could have been successfully carried out before May 42, but the Supreme Commander-in-Chief obviously decided that it was better for the garrison to fight to the end in the city than to evacuate it with heavy losses of men and practically all its weapons and ammunition and throw it into the field against the very same German 11th Army, which would have arrived at the front much faster. I believe this decision was the right one in the circumstances, and the navy accomplished much more than could have been expected under those conditions.
    The evacuation from Odessa took place successfully under the noses of the Romanians, because they were Romanians, not Germans...

    The evacuation of Odessa took place under the noses of both the Romanians and the Germans and their air forces, and it was so successful because it was launched when it was still possible. And they launched it then because the Germans had advanced by land to Sevastopol, and the Supreme Command correctly decided to defend only Sevastopol.
    All the actions of the Black Sea Fleet and its admirals in 1941-42 were flawless, with the exception of inevitable minor tactical errors. The contribution of the Soviet Navy, and the Black Sea Fleet in particular, exceeded that of all enemy and allied fleets, just as the Russian Navy had in World War I, despite suffering far fewer losses.
  83. 0
    30 December 2025 04: 27
    It's clear that Mr. Skorokhodov wasn't particularly fond of Soviet sailors, but here's the rub. This gentleman actively promotes the idea of ​​some kind of humanitarian superiority of the princes and barons of the Russian Empire. Excuse me, but what about the defeat of Rozhdestvensky's squadron at Tsushima and the destruction of the Russian fleet by the Japanese? The complete inaction of the Russian fleet in the Crimean War? And what great feats of Russian sailors were heard of during the First World War? The article is biased and has a somewhat rotten odor. The very concept of a maritime power after Peter the Great somehow didn't quite take root in the minds of the Russian and Soviet authorities. So the author shouldn't shift the blame from one sore head to another. The problem of competence dates back to those distant times.
  84. 0
    30 December 2025 11: 59
    Whatever you say, the "Avoska" is a biplane - a "U-2 on steroids" with a speed of 222 km/h (!!!).

    Whatever one may say, speed is a secondary quality for a night torpedo bomber. Especially for a carrier-based torpedo bomber. No torpedo bomber was faster than contemporary fighters, and none of them could outrun interception. Maneuverability at low speeds near the ground (or water) is incomparably more important for deck landings, torpedo deployment, and defense against fighters.
    The German carrier-based torpedo bomber, the Fieseler 167, was also a biplane and could land almost vertically on an aircraft carrier's deck. For JRA fighters, it was a very difficult target to hit, more difficult than the He-111, Ju-87, and Ju-88. The Po-2 was also more difficult to shoot down than the Il-4, Pe-2, and so on.
  85. 0
    3 January 2026 16: 54
    The message I see in this article is that "education is evil and destroys the armed forces, and for the integrity of the troops, only illiterate blockheads must serve there." And apparently, Roman suggests that the best defense against the revolution he hates is a complete lack of even basic knowledge about the world (like the law of conservation of energy) and basic logical thinking skills (like "after does not mean because of"), not to mention more serious matters. True, such an environment is what breeds all sorts of Black Hundreds, Wahhabis, flat-earthers, and homeopaths, while the country itself, with such troops and people, is easy prey for the big imperialists.
  86. 0
    8 January 2026 07: 59
    And the executioner Kolchak was killed not in Crimea, but in Siberia.
  87. 0
    10 January 2026 23: 25
    I haven't commented for a long time, about eight years, I think.
    But since I previously criticized Roman Skomorokhov more than all those who wrote below combined (and 10 years ago I was quite active, for which I was banned several times), I will allow myself to put in my two cents.
    The article is interesting and, importantly, bold. But what if we look back in history not just 100 years, but, say, 175? Where was naval supremacy achieved? Which enemy country was blockaded? Where was maritime transport paralyzed? Which squadron battle was won?
    Of course, there are other opinions. Or perhaps something else? Perhaps someone who disagrees could contribute their own article on this topic?
  88. 0
    24 February 2026 20: 15
    Впрочем, исключения были, и такое исключение, как адмирал Иван Исаков, вполне нормально командовал сухопутным фронтом по причине определенной некомпетентности наших генералов, был в истории такой случай.
    Не могли бы вы уточнить, каким таким фронтом якобы командовал Иван Исаков ?
    Впрочем, Исаков сам исключение, по словам Сталина «…настоящий адмирал флота, товарищ Исаков. Умница, без ноги, но с головой».
    Простите, это И.В.Сталин вам лично сказал ? Или вы присутствовали на том...что это было совещание ? и сами слышали эти слова И.В.Сталина ?
    Before the war, at a meeting, Flag Officer 1st Rank I.S. Isakov noted in his report:
    НЕ могли бы вы уточнить, что это было за совещание и в каком архиве вы нашли доклад Исакова на этом совещании ?