What will be the sixth generation fighter? Check out the fifth generation fighter in the war

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What will be the sixth generation fighter? Check out the fifth generation fighter in the war

Not so long ago, the US Navy at the aerospace conference presented a "principled concept" of the sixth generation fighter company Boeing, which immediately caused heated debate, mil.huanqiu.com reports on April 24.

Currently, fifth-generation fighters, such as the F-22 fighter created in addition to the F-35, are facing an "endless stream of technical problems," technological demonstrators of the Russian T-50 and the Chinese J-20 (in the photo) are still in the flight tests, other countries are planning to develop machines of the fifth generation "only on paper."

American companies Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, as well as other aerospace giants are eyeing the possibility of creating a sixth generation fighter. To create a promising combat aircraft that would meet the requirements of 2030-2060's air and sea wars, variable-duty engines, a full range of stealth technologies over the entire radio wave range, artificial intelligence and unmanned aircraft technology are considered as key technologies. Russia even expressed a more conservative assumption that the sixth generation fighter would “grow” straight from the fifth as its modernization.

It seems that the competition for the sixth generation has already started. Different visions are expressed, for example, an unmanned fighter capable of operating both in the air and in space, and equipped with high-energy laser weapons, but the current level of technological development pours a tub of cold water on such enthusiasts.

Remote control unmanned fighter

An unmanned fighter aircraft can maneuver at significantly higher g-forces due to the absence of a pilot, and may be smaller than a manned fighter aircraft. But the dynamically developing situation in air combat, including the need to evade enemy missiles, requires a quick response. A computer with artificial intelligence playing Go can perform billions of operations per second, but cannot compete with human intelligence in decision-making speed. In addition, the control of an unmanned fighter over a thousand kilometers inevitably entails delays in sending control signals. You will say that the speed of electromagnetic waves is equal to the speed of light, what does the delay have to do with it? In fact, sending signals aboard a heavily maneuvering fighter will inevitably come with some delay. Even using an AWACS aircraft as a control platform will not eliminate this problem. It is also claimed that the F / A-XX pilot can control several UAVs, but the enemy can use strong electronic interference, which can interrupt contact with drones from a manned fighter aircraft.

Speed ​​and height

When developing fighters of the second-third generations, the task was set to achieve the highest possible maximum speed, the fourth generation did not set such tasks, and on the fifth generation the speed factor was generally considered secondary. However, in the development of machines of the sixth generation, the factor “speed - height” may rise.

In 2009, the United States Air Force initiated the creation of turbofans with variable duty cycles, which in principle can give the fighter speed 4-5М. At the same time, fantastic requirements emerged so that the fighter of a new generation could reach near-Earth space. The United States created several prototypes of hypersonic devices at speeds above 5M. Reusable unmanned spacecraft X-37 Orbiter can perform the role of a space fighter.

But if you see a picture of how a space fighter emerges into the atmosphere and hits aerial targets, this is, of course, beautiful, but such an application is tantamount to shooting sparrows from anti-aircraft guns. Worse, ordinary fighter jets can fire a space enemy as they enter the atmosphere. For example, the United States using an anti-satellite missile launched from an F-15 fighter can destroy a satellite in low-Earth orbit.

Maneuverability

It is believed that the new fighter can be equipped with revolutionary combat systems such as directional energy weapons (lasers) and hypersonic kinetic weapons. For years, the United States Air Force experienced an ABL airborne laser aboard a Boeing-747, but did not achieve significant results.

The difficulty of defeating a fighter with a laser weapon lies in the fact that its dimensions are very small, moreover, it can maneuver intensively. To hit a narrow laser beam in such a goal is very problematic, besides, the beam must affect the target for at least 12 seconds to cause its destruction. Thus, the "laser artillery" has its significant drawbacks.

Anti stealth

Fighters of the sixth generation must have a high level of stealth technology to hide the aircraft in the entire spectrum of radio waves, as well as in the optical spectrum. But even the Americans felt that a stealth fighter is a very expensive car, and attempts to achieve stealth in the optical spectrum will be even more expensive.

In the foreseeable future, with the development of electronic technology, the “invisibility” of stealth aircraft will be more and more unsteady. For example, the deployment of a multi-radar network has shown that such a system is capable of detecting stealth aircraft.

Information that the United States Air Force a few years ago conducted a computer simulation of F-22 air battles with fourth-generation F-15 and F-16 fighters (144: 0 score) in real battles can never be achieved.

What will be the sixth generation of fighters? To answer this question, wait for the moment when fifth-generation fighters "will undergo the baptism of war." Then the answer will be clear, the Chinese source believes.
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  1. +15
    2 May 2013 06: 32
    Not so long ago, the US Navy at the aerospace conference presented a "principled concept" of the sixth generation fighter company Boeing, which immediately caused heated debate, mil.huanqiu.com reports on April 24.

    First you bring your 5 generation junk to mind!
    1. +12
      2 May 2013 07: 48
      So this will be the completion of the 5th generation.
      in the best case, it will be the 5+ generation and the ability to work in unmanned mode, and the capital one is just a bluff, like the 5th generation Iranian and Chinese fighter today. And Khryaptor himself is also a machine that has never been in real contact battle with a real, equal or superior enemy, and not bombing of banana republics in greenhouse conditions.
      Similarly, their lasers ...
      This is an attempt to draw into the next arms race.
      But the Russian is already smart and does not bite on a bare hook, and the Chinese have not yet matured.
      Well, a new way to cut the dough ...
      In general, Amer is not a classification.

      A very symbolic photo in the article - Corn in the sky and the corn on the ground ... Indeed, in fact, it is so, in the sky the amers have previous generations, and a new one on the ground ... "Born to crawl ..."
      1. Gemar
        +25
        2 May 2013 08: 17
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        attempt to draw into the next arms race.

        No, we will not lead to the sixth generation. No. We are the fifth, 5+ and 5 ++ we want to trade!
        As an answer to the 6th generation, let's design flying saucers! good
        I would suggest creating this plate subsonic, with built-in dynamic protection and serious active protection. In short, so that all attacking ammunition could be neutralized by the aircraft themselves. Protection should be at the tank level (figs with it that the combat radius will be the same as the tank wassat ). We will launch production at Uralvagonzavod. To the surprised exclamations of the Western and Chinese public, we will answer that this saucer is another deep modernization of the T-72, created in the Nizhny Tagil "Ural Design Bureau of Transport Engineering". Let the "partners" tremble! soldier
        1. patline
          +7
          2 May 2013 09: 42
          But what is the sixth generation Nafik? Until there is a stable and safe communication channel from outside interference, then it’s not worth talking about the sixth generation.
          Unless, this sixth generation will again be used against savages where there are no adequate countermeasures. And the meaning of this sixth generation is immediately lost, according to the savages it is possible to work from the Messerschmites of the Second World .... smile
        2. +1
          2 May 2013 13: 44
          Thank you, my friend! Neighing from the heart!
          1. Gemar
            +2
            2 May 2013 17: 02
            Quote: gladysheff2010
            Thank you buddy!

            drinks Glad to!
            Quote: gladysheff2010
            Neighing from the heart!

            In vain ... I seriously propose to put the tank "on the wing"! laughing And I even consider it obligatory to make loopholes for firing from personal weapons! soldier
            1. 0
              21 May 2013 04: 59
              They think it's an iPhone, you can release a new one every year ...
      2. -4
        2 May 2013 09: 35
        Actually, the official J-20 on earth, but also a ram.
        1. Explore
          +10
          2 May 2013 10: 40
          Yeah, and behind is an old plane with US Air Force identification marks.
          This is an F-22. Chinese J-20 is made taking into account IFIs and has PGO.
        2. +4
          2 May 2013 10: 43
          No, actually it’s a crawler, not a J-20
        3. Gemar
          +4
          2 May 2013 10: 45
          Quote: zennon
          Actually, on the ground, the official J-20

          Raptor on earth, not J-20! You probably read in the article
          demonstrators of the Russian T-50 and Chinese J-20 (pictured)

          On the J-20, the Chinese used PGO and all-turning vertical plumage. Plus air intakes like on the F-35.
          1. +4
            2 May 2013 11: 14
            Yes, I’m sorry, I didn’t consider it. The view is not successful. The snout, his mother ... hi
            As for the 6th generation, there is not only a look, but even a concept of application. In addition, R&D based on the next stage in the development of materials science, element base, etc. is not needed. Yes and cabbage is not measured. .
            1. Gemar
              +2
              2 May 2013 12: 18
              Quote: zennon
              Yes, I'm sorry, I did not consider

              hi It happens! +++
              Quote: zennon
              As for the 6th generation, there is not only the appearance, but even the concept of application

              But the USA already has advertising!
            2. +2
              2 May 2013 14: 01
              Yes, there is already the sixth laughing
              1. Gemar
                0
                2 May 2013 17: 58
                Quote: gladysheff2010
                Yes, there is already the sixth

                Moreover, vertical take-off and landing! wink
                But will there be a double ... pah, that is, a double combat training option? wassat
        4. 0
          2 May 2013 13: 35
          Not yours, not yours, go play cars better.
    2. +7
      2 May 2013 11: 11
      Quote: Sibiryak
      First you bring your 5 generation junk to mind!


      The United States wants to remain a trendsetter in aviation fashion ...
      But, the Chinese are right that the appearance of the 6 generation will arise from the fights of the aircraft of the 5 generation.
      And no one is yet able to imagine what it will be like.
      It is gratifying that Russia did not fall out of the process of creating new generations of aircraft.
      It’s hard, sometimes with a traditional Russian obscenity, new technology is forged ...
      I remember how about seven years ago, our handshake liberals foaming at the mouth pissed on American f22 and gave the notorious score "144: 0". However, time puts everything in its place ... "The miracle of technology" has not yet shown its "superpowers" in real battles. Our 4 ++ say they can compete with them.
      ... what the 6 generation will be, we don’t know, but with a great deal of confidence we can say - and there will be a decent Russian answer to it!
      Our answer!
      1. +2
        2 May 2013 13: 13
        Quote: Rus2012
        I remember how about seven years ago, our handshake liberals foaming at the mouth pissing on American f22 and giving the notorious score "144: 0"

        Your thoughts are not entirely clear. What is the attitude of the US Air Force exercises (by the way, the score was 241-2) to the delights of the liberals?
        After all, there American planes trained with American ones.
        What to admire?
        And why should liberals be enthusiastic about the Americans?
        Although I am not a liberal, maybe I don’t understand something ...
        1. +1
          2 May 2013 13: 33
          Quote: Odyssey
          What relation do the U.S. Air Force exercises (by the way, the score was 241-2 by the way) have liberals delighted?

          ... I will clarify - in this case, "liberals" meant fans of technology from the USA, as a progressive country adherent of "democratic values".
          In the famous military forum, the so-called. full-time or supernumerary trolls with foam at the mouth proved the superiority of "everything that is not ours" -f117, f22, and how they would blow our aviation to pieces in hypothetical clashes. In the same place, they criticized and vilified that we would never create the 5th generation, if we do, it will be a lamp-file-lomo tool ...
    3. 0
      2 May 2013 11: 49
      What will be the sixth generation fighter?
      Elementary Watson!
      Between the fifth generation and the seventh! hi
    4. GHG
      GHG
      +1
      2 May 2013 13: 57
      There is not really a 5th, but already a swing to 6th. Unmanned fighters ... just fantastic. Humanity is already close, and sometimes already at a dead end in its development. We are not super bargains, this is about the achieved overloads. flights, so telekinesis can be used more promisingly with the same use. Do not judge strictly, but the 6th generation bullshit, at least we (people) do not have technologies that could fully unleash the full potential of "iron". New knowledge in the fields of Physics is needed , chemistry, etc. etc.
      1. GHG
        GHG
        +1
        2 May 2013 19: 31
        As always, I’ll write stupidly ... THE PILOT WILL WIN
  2. +1
    2 May 2013 06: 36
    Well, now the race will begin who will have the coolest number before the word "generation". Soon, the seventh or eighth generation, someone will start developing.
  3. +1
    2 May 2013 06: 42
    What will be the sixth generation of fighters? To answer this question, wait for the moment when fifth-generation fighters "will undergo the baptism of war." Then the answer will be clear, the Chinese source believes.
    And you can’t disagree with him, but you can already do some sort of sketching now ... and there are a lot of chances that he will be unmanned. what
  4. +12
    2 May 2013 06: 49
    I think that the 6th generation is an engine based on new physical principles. and so, everything before this is polishing existing technologies and whatever you call it - it is the 5th generation.
    1. +2
      2 May 2013 06: 54
      In-in! Which will inevitably lead to a change in the shape of the aircraft.
    2. +1
      2 May 2013 12: 31
      Quote: dld35057
      I think that the 6th generation is an engine based on new physical principles. and so, everything before this is polishing existing technologies and whatever you call it - it is the 5th generation.

      Yes, I also think that the 6th generation should be fundamentally different from its predecessors.
      1. 0
        2 May 2013 13: 38
        IMHO, the x-47b at the moment can now be called the prototype of the 6th generation. And over the "heavenly network" hovering over the United States in order to secure air superiority.
  5. +2
    2 May 2013 07: 55
    About stealth technology. I remember a similar "invisible" plane was shot down in Yugoslavia and a poster "Sorry, we did not know that you were invisible" was put on the wreckage.
    1. 0
      2 May 2013 13: 48
      How long can Yugoslavia remember? The fact that stealth is "unbreakable" is just an advertising stamp, in fact, we see only 1 shot down plane, moreover, it was detected by a meter radar and it is not known under what conditions, so it is clearly not for you to draw conclusions.
    2. +2
      2 May 2013 14: 33
      Shot down. One. With great effort. And thanks to more ingenuity of some and sloppiness of others. There are no completely invisible aircraft, no absolute air defense systems. There are loopholes everywhere. So, the "invisible" were positioned completely invisible only by journalists. It's just that stealth technology makes it as difficult as possible to detect such an aircraft. That's all. And about its effectiveness, we can say that the plane was shot down alone. If they hadn't been flying on a schedule and on the same route, they wouldn't have shot down a single one.
  6. +3
    2 May 2013 09: 15
    The conclusion of the article is correct, only practice will determine the further development of technology. Anyone from a pistol to an airplane.
  7. +2
    2 May 2013 09: 57
    Then the answer will be clear, believes chinese source.

    Something the Chinese have recently fussed about.
    Did you smell something?
    Can't decide who has what technologies to wander around for their super-duper "stealth"? smile
  8. +1
    2 May 2013 09: 58
    They want to cram so much into it ......... yes there are still no such technologies on the ground, but the price will be prohibitive !!!
    Although why should the Americans cry? left the workers for a couple of nights - they will print !!!
    1. Kaa
      +1
      2 May 2013 13: 13
      Quote: APASUS
      They want to cram so much into it
      "" The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) of the US Department of Defense is studying the concept of a new generation of fighters as part of the new air dominance initiative, which is expected to produce results in the next budget year, according to flightglobal. com April 25 Agency Director Arati Prabhakar (pictured) says research on a new air superiority fighter was initiated by a discussion with Pentagon Purchasing Chief Frank Kendall when she took over this post last year. “During these conversations, we discussed the topic and thought about how to extend the US air superiority,” she said. Prabhakar made it clear that there will not be any one revolutionary technology ("silver bullet") that can guarantee air superiority in the next three to four decades. The Pentagon believes that it is necessary to start studying advanced technologies on this topic, because the threats future wars will be far more dangerous than the United States has faced since the end of the Cold War.
      Prabhakar said that DARPA “has deliberately chosen a systematic approach” to this problem, and that this approach is to study the full range of promising technologies. DARPA conducts research in conjunction with experts from the US Air Force and Navy. The promising technologies of the sixth generation fighter cover such areas as network technologies and communications, control of electromagnetic radiation in all ranges of the electromagnetic spectrum, manned and unmanned technologies will be combined into one complex, a large role is given to interaction with space-based means. Over the past months, work has been carried out intensively, says the head of the Agency. Preliminary work results may influence decision-making in the budget process for 2015.http: //www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/darpa-working-on-sixth-generation-
      figure
      1. 0
        2 May 2013 14: 00
        Kaa US Department of Defense is exploring the concept of a new generation of fighters as part of an initiative to ensure air superiority
        Are they already in doubt? request laughing
        1. 0
          2 May 2013 21: 02
          Quote: mabuta
          Are they already in doubt?

          Money is printing !!
  9. +3
    2 May 2013 10: 11
    The guys are the same Americans. They have everything. As in Hollywood, the main thing is to launch a cartoon that we are ready.
  10. +1
    2 May 2013 10: 19
    There is no 5th generation fighter in the world, and the Americans have swung at the 6th. There is no need to remind about the F-22 F-F35, these are not fighters, they are just planes, because they did not destroy more than one enemy aircraft. No one knows how they will show themselves in battle.
    1. +1
      2 May 2013 13: 57
      Peter the Great, too, did not sink one ship, so he is not a cruiser, but just a boat?
  11. Ak 12
    -1
    2 May 2013 11: 08
    Another drank budget
  12. Roll
    0
    2 May 2013 11: 36
    fellow The fighter must first of all meet the assigned tasks. For example, here are some chatlanes who write that the Chinese ji is 20 g - but this is not so. Ji 20 is an analogue of the Su 30 fighter bomber, not a fighter gaining superiority. Its task is to inflict covert attacks on Amer’s bases and ships. Why would he need supersonic cruising speed, if he could fly over the ocean, and at the stage of attack he could cut it, why would he need super maneuverability, if after the attack he could flee on a shaver. In general, the 5th generation fighter’s parameters were thought up for duel fights and knocking dough. for their neglect of the Chinese, they are planning a wide range of 5th generation aircraft and, moreover, fighting horses. Ji 20, ji 31 ​​light fighter, gaining superiority and stealth on the basis of su 27 following the example of amers from f 15. Also, drying 27 had its tail bent like f 18, put an unreleased flashlight and made internal weapons and comfortable tanks. This will most likely result in a very sensible and inexpensive heavy fighter with most elements of the 5th generation. And the Chinese have more prototypes than our pack fa.
    1. Gemar
      +3
      2 May 2013 12: 14
      Quote: Rolm
      here are some chatlana write that the Chinese ji is 20 g - but this is not so.
      And the Chinese have more prototypes than our pack fa.
      But the Chinese still have 4 blocks of dynamic protection, and the duck’s nose is prettier, unfortunately ours, compared to the Chinese, looks completely shitty, just like an ugly duckling.
      China is wandering, I’ll buy 5 pieces per sample, there are no defective ones and no substandard ones. That's the problem we are ready to sell, and he thinks whether he needs such a treasure, although he has the dough, that the fool has a mooch.
      there are different scenarios, for example, riots and commissioning at the invitation of the government of the Chinese peacekeeping forces. Here we are completely out of work.
      And as you do not allow the occupation of Kazakhstan by China, by the 2020 year, China will grow stronger, and its tank divisions will be ready to occupy Kazakhstan in a month.
      We have no chance to defend Kazakhstan, only to share with China.
      It is imperative for China to sell both Su 35 and 400 and, moreover, to closely cooperate with it, we are friends.
      Dynamic protection is placed correctly, here we copied the Chinese.
      Under the vigorous Chinese medium-range missiles aimed at the European part of Russia you can’t show off much.
      And why nothing has been said about Ji 20 and Ji 31. Here they even overtake us already. Our pack fa has been moved for another year. Of course, they still have small problems with the engines, but for now.
      And the Chinese have more prototypes than our pack fa.
      And the Chinese will destroy the drying at the airport.
      They have their own ji 20 and ji 31 ​​are not bad.
      As for su 35, if China considers su 35 to be a modernization of su 27, it will legally copy it.
      In addition, there is Ukraine, Belarus, in general, China has a lot to buy without us. Therefore, you need to sell to the maximum and even with technology.
      China needs to sell the most modern weapons and not think about the consequences
      As for the courage of the Russian soldier, this topic is debatable.

      VERDICT:
      Just for the phrase "As for the bravery of the Russian soldier, this topic is controversial" can already be shot!
      间谍 该死!
      1. Roll
        -6
        2 May 2013 14: 27
        love Hey . patriotism is also different, in 40-41 those who said that Germany would attack us were also considered alarmists and were sometimes shot at your advice. But there was nothing good about it. As for the courage of a Russian soldier, about 15 percent had it, and this is indisputable, and the assertion that any Russian soldier is, in my opinion, brave stupidity. The ability to objectively see events, alas, is not given to everyone.
        1. +1
          2 May 2013 15: 05
          Quote: Rolm
          love Hey . patriotism is also different, in 40-41 those who said that Germany would attack us were also considered alarmists and were sometimes shot at your advice. But there was nothing good about it. As for the courage of a Russian soldier, about 15 percent had it, and this is indisputable, and the assertion that any Russian soldier is, in my opinion, brave stupidity. The ability to objectively see events, alas, is not given to everyone.

          Why did Vissarionitch not shoot himself after speaking to students of military academies on May 5, 1941? request
        2. Gemar
          +2
          2 May 2013 16: 55
          Quote: Rolm
          Hey .

          hi
          Quote: Rolm
          patriotism is also different

          Could it be that you attributed your call for the sale of the Su-35 and S-400 to patriotism? China prides itself on its ability to keep its "know-how" secret, much more than its ability to learn other people's secrets. And you urge to share and be nice with him, as the whole World bleated before the Germans, fearing the 2nd World War. The Han people consider us subhuman (believe someone who has lived in the PRC, in different cities, for almost 10 years), and you claim that you are inherent in
          Quote: Rolm
          The ability to objectively see events

          And, mind you, I do not pretend to be absolutely objective, I just cover what I myself and my friends came across.
          Quote: Rolm
          the statement that any Russian soldier is in my opinion brave stupidity.
          Show me the man who claimed that "any Russian soldier is brave" - ​​I will be the first to throw a stone at him. And not for you, dear, to write about stupidity. "germany" and "Russian" - I hinted quite transparently ???
          And more ... Try to prove to the Chinese that they would not have won the war with the Japanese without external help - at best they will call you an ignoramus, at worst, they will fill your face.
          Do not be offended, dear, if you hurt you. Just at the same time call for the sale of China's most modern weapons with technology and not think about the consequences ... Call for sharing Kazakhstan with China ... And at the same time claim that
          Quote: Rolm
          patriotism is also different

          THIS IS THE TOP OF CINISM AND RESPECT! Disrespect for Russians, Russians, Kazakhs.
          Be calm if China attacks Kazakhstan - this will be his last mistake. And by the number of Russian / Russian volunteers, you will understand that more than 15 percent have courage ... and not only among Russians!
          Sincerely, Korefan (Chinese Gamar wink )
        3. 0
          2 May 2013 20: 27
          Quote: Rolm
          Hey . patriotism is also different, in 40-41 those who said that Germany would attack us were also considered alarmists and were sometimes shot at your advice.

          You just don't know the story. Stalin knew that the Germans would attack, the question was to delay this moment. Stalin even knew DATE, and what could he do? The army catastrophically did not have time to turn around! Stalin should every locomotive shoulder push to accelerate? Losing the USSR in deploying the army THREE times due to logistics, you can’t compensate for this! PUT YOUR PLAN on how to forestall Germany!
    2. +2
      2 May 2013 14: 07
      Quote: Rolm
      stealth on the basis of su 27 following the example of amers from f 15. Also at drying 27 they bred their tail like f 18, put a non-binding flashlight and made internal weapons and comfortable tanks. This will most likely result in a very sensible and inexpensive heavy fighter with most elements of the 5th generation. And the Chinese have more prototypes than our pack fa.


      But this, excuse me, did you come up with yourself, or did I miss something?
      1. Roll
        -1
        2 May 2013 14: 21
        belay Hi, how many prototypes we have in pack fa-4, and the Chinese have 6 prototypes of ji 20 and at least 1 ji 31. And that is more than 7 or 4. Then our program for pack fa was transferred for a year, and the Chinese are all according to plan.
        1. 0
          2 May 2013 15: 48
          where infa on the number of aircraft? in the public domain of the pact 4 flies + 2 on the ground are tested. j-20 4 aircraft.
        2. Gemar
          +1
          2 May 2013 17: 53
          Quote: Rolm
          and the Chinese are all according to plan.

          Everything is according to plan ... We will buy the Su-35, we will reduce the avionics technology and engines from there, install it on the Zh-20 ... and call it completely Chinese development, superior to foreign analogues.
          Quote: Rolm
          And that is more than 7 or 4.

          The Zh-20 is a prototype, not a finished aircraft, like the Zh-31, like the PAK FA, like ... MiG 1.42, like the Su-47. First, then we have 3 different prototypes, China has only 2. We count 4 + 2 t-50 + 1 MiG 1.42 + 1 Su-47 = 8.
          And what is more than 8 or 7? tongue
        3. -1
          2 May 2013 22: 05
          I actually spoke with the stealth you invented on the basis of the 27th.
  13. diesel
    +6
    2 May 2013 12: 02
    The history of the development of AI shows that the improvement of technical samples occurs in an evolutionary way. Based on the amount of funds spent, deployed technological lines, one should not expect a revolution in this area in the next 30 years. An unmanned fighter should be considered as an auxiliary means, for single interception, inspection of unidentified targets, for limited use. War in the air is, first of all, a tactical formation of aviation in certain battle formations and groups, with maneuvering, including those with extreme aerodynamic parameters. So far, only manned fighters can maintain tactical interaction and re-target. The role of speed in the number of combat characteristics remains significant, especially at low altitudes. The ability to perform supersonic flight near the ground is the most important characteristic of a fighter. The maneuverable piles of fighters with a variable thrust vector have not yet been tactically developed and realized. Obviously, this will significantly change the tactics of maneuverable air battles, which will require a revision of this section of IA tactics. It will be necessary to change the status of pilots flying under such programs. It should be borne in mind that the maneuvering characteristics and performance of the pilot are most fully realized at speeds of up to 700 km / h. At high speeds, the aircraft reaches its ultimate overload strength, which is close to the loss of performance by the pilot. The strength is the same limitation for UAVs. Such maneuvers also require increased fuel consumption. Piloting at speeds close to evolutionary speeds provides a reduction in maneuver time and constant control over the tactical situation. Exotic types of means of destruction are simply not considered correct. "Kinetic" weapon in translation into Russian - a stone. Laser flying Dneproges. Stealth today is an overt way to increase the cost of R&D and serial products. There is some benefit from this, but it is largely designed for use in a pure dueling situation. In the event of a collision of military blocks, the use of interference from battle formations or from the zone negates this characteristic. Today it plays more on the political prestige of the state and the calmness of the allies. Much has been said about stealth fighters being four times more effective than 3rd generation fighters. Let's imagine a flight on a T-50 and 4 MiG-23ml missions. There is a single successful shot from the ground at each group. T-50 falls, the task is not completed. In the second case, one MiG-23ml falls. The task is completed by the rest by 75%. Projecting all this onto the vastness of our Motherland, we should admit that we need more relatively inexpensive fighters and a limited group of "sophisticated" ones.
    1. Gemar
      +2
      2 May 2013 12: 37
      Quote: dizelniy
      Projecting all this onto the vastness of our Motherland, we must admit that we need more relatively inexpensive fighters and a limited group of "sophisticated" ones.

      I agree! +++
      Only "limited grouping" should not be very limited. Otherwise, the countries whose grouping of "sophisticated" fighters is not very limited will not put us at anything.
      Quote: dizelniy
      Imagine the flight to the task of the T-50 and 4 MiG-23ml.

      Here the comparison is not entirely correct. T-50 must fight with the 5th generation aircraft. And where its capabilities are redundant, budget options should be applied.
      And in general, you forgot that the 5th generation provides the pilot with better survival. And this, you see, is the most basic task! Therefore, you need to seriously address the topic of drones. hi
      1. diesel
        +1
        2 May 2013 13: 34
        Regarding survival. The winners are those who are ready to die, not mindlessly of course. The fighter takes off to repel the enemy’s attack, and here we are not talking about the equivalent exchange of damage levels. The weakest side of our air defense is the lack of theory and practice of interaction between ZRV and IA developed and embodied in metal and combat documents . If you remember it stretches from Paursa. Decisiveness is good, but who will take the second flight?
    2. +2
      2 May 2013 13: 22
      Quote: dizelniy
      There is benefit from this, but it is largely designed for use in a pure dueling situation.

      The whole point of stealth is to increase the likelihood of completing a combat mission by reducing the possibility of detection. What does the dueling situation have to do with it?
      So far, there has been one and rather successful experience of using "stealth" F-117 machines. But there was not a single dueling situation.
      Quote: dizelniy
      Imagine the flight to the task of the T-50 and 4 MiG-23ml. There is a single successful shot from the ground for each group.

      The meaning of the T-50 is that, unlike the Mig-23, successful shots should not be.
      Quote: dizelniy
      Projecting all this onto the vastness of our Motherland, we must admit that we need more relatively inexpensive fighters and a limited group of "sophisticated" ones.

      It all depends on what goals the state faces and, accordingly, what opponents it has.
      1. diesel
        +1
        2 May 2013 13: 37
        Stealth is considered when confronting on the opposite courses without interference from two opposing fighters.
      2. Gemar
        +1
        2 May 2013 16: 20
        Quote: Odyssey
        The meaning of the T-50 is that, unlike the Mig-23, successful shots should not be.

        dizelniy believes that the main principle of survival is "be ready to die". This is partly a correct statement. However, do not forget about the latest systems inherent only in 5th generation aircraft - stealth, the latest ejection seats, a modern powerful electronic warfare system. All this clearly outperforms similar systems on cheaper aircraft, and, therefore, increases survivability. And survival, I specify, is the main thing for the pilot, not for the system. Pilots are not released on the conveyor.
        Quote: Odyssey
        So far there has been one and rather successful experience of using "stealth" machines-F-117

        Not quite an appropriate example. F-117 - strike aircraft. And "fighting" in a duel does not suit him. We're not going to consider a duel between the Su-24 and F-15, right? Yes, and at the expense of a successful experience, one can doubt. The F-117 operated in a virtually absent air defense system, and as soon as the bomb bay was opened, it was discovered and shot down (Yugoslavia). If the United States themselves were convinced of its "invulnerability", it would not have removed it from service.
    3. 0
      2 May 2013 20: 40
      The words of a specialist. But. Improving the patterns is true. But the development of aviation is happening in a revolutionary way. So far, mainly changes in the principle of operation of engines. Americans simply use their marketing (vile deceit) to the maximum - say, give money for the next generation. It is better already because the following!
      But isn't it time to make another revolution? And this time not by the principle of the engine. For a person, indeed, 700-800 km / h is already enough. Maybe it's time to take a fresh look at aviation? Change the very principles of air combat, taking into account, for example, the fact that modern technology is capable of making engines, and indeed any drives, of any size with the highest performance? Now, in general, you can make anything relatively inexpensively, just anything that comes to mind. And this "whatever" will fly, and at great speeds and with considerable range.
      Remembering that our goal is generally never a plane. The goal is air supremacy! It is necessary not to endlessly finish off a certain topic, it is necessary to have an undeniable advantage in the sky. There is something to think about ...
  14. Prishtina
    -1
    2 May 2013 13: 03
    Hmm .. never understood this gradation of generations .. fashion from the West. For me personally, there are 2 generations. / 1st "turboprop / approx. From the Wright brothers to the end of WWII. And 2nd jet-powered fighters. The 3rd generation should also have fundamental differences from the 2nd ... as a WWII fighter from a fighter during the Korean War What is now _3,4,5 is a phased evolution and no whiter.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. 0
    2 May 2013 13: 42
    In general, there’s nothing to discuss, the Amers have a creative itch about the 6th generation from the fact that they by and large did not work out in the sense that they originally laid in it. And now they see that the Russians, having learned from their mistakes, create a car much closer in characteristics to the ideal of the 5th and it’s sausage, they can’t say that they screwed up with the 5th and beat the loot for a better version , so we launched the company on the 6th. Everything as usual.
  17. 0
    2 May 2013 13: 47
    I would like to draw the attention of respected colleagues to a question that few people raise. MONEY. It's no secret that every next pepelats costs any country much more expensive than the previous one. Mattresses, actively occupying all over the world, managed to collect 30 trillion green ones in 14 years. that I’m afraid to make a mistake and write in letters. Their current debt is approaching 16 trillion. They reached the level of +1 trillion. in 1,5 years! It cannot go on forever. request As a result, the contemptuous expression "budget sequestration" appeared. And this is much more serious than any projekt. I have serious doubts that they will bring the 5th generation to combat units in the volume that they planned. It would not hurt us to look into our wallet more often. what
  18. -1
    2 May 2013 14: 18
    Cut - a trend that knows no boundaries.
  19. -1
    2 May 2013 14: 49
    What am I not catching up with, if the F-22 is so "oh vaascheee" (144: 0), then why is the Pentagon launching a program to modernize the tactical tandem F-15 \ F-16? Amers admit, acre of radio signature. That in close combat, at a cannon shot distance, is useless. How are they going to design the 6th generation if the warriors are still scratching their turnips with demands. It seems to me that the recent story with "Abrams" is repeating itself. and the more expensive the better.
  20. 0
    2 May 2013 14: 55
    It is not necessary to install lasers on an airplane in order to arm the aircraft itself with laser weapons.
    The aircraft can be used as a repeater.
    To establish on it only a device focusing and redirecting the laser beam, and the laser itself - a ground and stationary (well, or ship) laser — not on the plane, but below — a beam is emitted from the ground and the plane only directs it at the target.
    Then the beam power can be increased so that you do not need those 12 seconds of heating.
    The same repeaters can be installed on airships and covered with a grid of laser beams throughout the country, creating an impenetrable air defense shield.
    True, this is a defensive technology (stationary lasers) and the Pentagon hawks are not interested, but those who do not need to control the rest of the world, but only need to protect themselves from treacherous movements - this can be very promising.
    The same can be applied in the national economy (energy transmission over distance and communication).
    1. +1
      2 May 2013 15: 39
      good grass ...
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. 0
    2 May 2013 15: 34
    In war conditions, you need to think not about wunderwafes, but about unpretentious cheap, technological and modular constructions so that in case of which you can quickly rivet cars of the desired style, and not fill micro chips with buckets for big money.
    1. 0
      2 May 2013 16: 01
      in in, as the amers do they endure all the air defense, then they iron the earth with all kinds of junk
  23. Vtel
    0
    2 May 2013 17: 04
    artificial intelligence and technology of unmanned aerial vehicles

    For this, the future is possible, but not the immediate one. With an ever-increasing increase in aircraft speeds, an almost instantaneous assessment of the pattern of combat contact and decision-making, the absence of a "sick" human factor and other equally important qualities - the future is most likely for combat drones with artificial intelligence at high speeds and stealth, with entry into the stratosphere , "small" space. But this is still a fantasy, and we, as "always" in a big stupor, because the development of our microelectronics maliciously slows down, not without the participation of the West and our liberal managers: Chubais, Vekselberg, and then a long list - the screen will not be enough, as well as our "Fifth" column. When technologies are purchased that will no longer be accepted by the museum and get away with everything, apparently so someone needs it. And the vaunted Skolkovo and RUSNANO are just money laundering offices - here's your progress. So amers with their electronics will most likely be able to build something, but we are a big question, you know.
    1. diesel
      0
      2 May 2013 22: 06
      What you offer is a way to increase financial costs without a real practical result and industrial replication for defense purposes.
  24. albatross
    +2
    2 May 2013 17: 13
    Does anyone guess to steal an F-22 to Russia? Following the example of the MiG-25. I think our specialists want to feel it ...
  25. 0
    2 May 2013 17: 53
    With such a geometric progression drank dough on wunderwaffles you can’t get far! F-15 $ 40 million, F-22 $ 200 million, FX 6 generations 1 billion $ belay laughing
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. 0
    2 May 2013 17: 57


    Japan in the next five years will begin to develop a new fighter, which some American experts have already attributed to the 6th generation combat aircraft. The new aircraft will receive powerful engines, intelligent on-board systems and will surpass the existing fifth-generation fighters in its capabilities. True, the chances that the Japanese-designed aircraft will be mass-produced are small. In the future, this project may merge with the US, and Japan, as usual, will purchase fighters made in the USA. Everyone wants, not just amers. But this business is not cheap! winked
  28. 0
    2 May 2013 19: 48
    A little off topic. A video of a Boeing 747 plane crash in Afghanistan was posted on the Internet.


  29. +1
    3 May 2013 05: 51
    To talk about the 6 generation fighters, you need to have a clear idea of ​​the possible war scenarios in those remote times when the 4 and 5 generation fighters will exhaust their resources and will need to be replaced with new models. And no one has such a presentation yet. There are enough fantasies, but there is no clear concept that could be converted into a specific TTZ for a new generation of fighters and it is unlikely to appear soon. And so long as it appears in the world, so many events can happen that the existing views on the methods of conducting military operations and the technical means of ensuring these actions can be radically revised. The military around the world is always preparing to fight the scenarios of past wars. And then the next big war begins, all these preparations, together with Iraqi, Afghan, etc., local experience fly down the drain and have to invent on the go and do something on the knee that we did not think and guessed before. Unless, of course, those who survive will need to invent and do.
  30. 0
    4 May 2013 19: 22
    Not so important which, the main thing is ours))) Joke.

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