Military Review

Black Sea Fleet - a loose change?

156
Black Sea Fleet - a loose change?



In the 13th century, the Crimean peninsula was an economically strong agricultural land. Therefore, it was no accident that he became the target of the capture of the Tatar-Mongols. For almost 5 centuries, the Tatars, having formed the Crimean Khanate on the peninsula, collected a rich tribute. In 1771, Russian troops under the command of Prince Vasily Mikhailovich Dolgorukov defeated the Tatar army and captured the Crimean peninsula. The Tatars really hoped for the help of the Turks in repelling Russian attacks, but the Turkish troops at that time "got stuck" in the war on the Danube and could not come to the aid of the Tatars. In 1772, the Crimean khan and Prince Dolgoruky signed an agreement that established the status of an independent khanate for the peninsula under the auspices of Russia. Under the agreement, all the Black Sea ports passed to Russia: Kerch, Enikale and Kinburn. Thanks to this conquest, Russia forever got access to the Black Sea. But she had to prove her right to the Black Sea in numerous clashes with Turkish fleetreflecting the many attacks of Turkish military squadrons trying to capture the peninsula. In the spring of 1783, according to the highest rescript of Catherine II, the Crimean Khanate became part of the Russian Empire. A detachment of the Azov Flotilla came from Kerch to Crimea (Akhtiyar Bay), which marked the beginning of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. In the same year, the city of Sevastopol was laid down near the Akhtiyar Bay. In 1787, Turkey presented Russia with an ultimatum demanding the transfer of the Crimean Peninsula to it. Thus began the Russo-Turkish war, in which the Black Sea fleet inflicted a crushing defeat on the Turkish naval forces. As a result of the campaign of the Black Sea Squadron under the command of Admiral F.F. Ushakova in 1798-1800., Russia gained a naval base in the Mediterranean, which significantly increased the status of the country as a great sea power. Until now, Sevastopol cherished the memory of all Black Sea sailors who fought for their homeland. Legends are composed of the exploits of the defenders of Sevastopol during the Crimean War (1853-1856) and the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945).

For Russia, the Black Sea Fleet has always been vital. Today, there are two main tasks of the fleet. Firstly, control of the entire Black Sea waters and ensuring the security of the country's southern borders. Secondly, given the current geopolitical situation, the capabilities of technology and the naval forces of its closest neighbors, to ensure the protection of the country's borders by small forces of boats and light ships, taking into account their interaction with coastal missile systems and aviation. But if we consider the Black Sea Fleet as the basis for the deployment of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea and the Indian Ocean, then the Black Sea Fleet should include ships capable of providing their presence far from their shores and be able to patrol in distant sea and ocean zones.

Since Russia does not hide its interest either in the Indian Ocean or in the Mediterranean, the role of the Black Sea Fleet for the country is increasing.

In Soviet times, the Black Sea Fleet had 835 ships and vessels of all existing classes (part of the ships were part of the Mediterranean operational squadron), 400 naval aviation units (75 aircraft could carry a nuclear weapon), fleet personnel numbered 160 thousands of people. The fleet had 2 divisions of anti-submarine and amphibious ships, a submarine division, two aviation divisions, a coast guard division and a dozen separate military units. The ships of the Black Sea Fleet were based on numerous well-equipped Black Sea bases: Sevastopol, Odessa, Izmail, Kerch, Black Sea, Poti, Ochakov, Nikolaev, Donuzlav, Feodosiya, Novorossiysk, etc.

Currently, the Russian Black Sea Fleet includes only 50 combat boats, ships and auxiliary vessels. The number of aircraft supporting the fleet has decreased significantly compared with the Soviet years. If earlier the Russian Black Sea fleet dominated the Black Sea, now it is inferior in numbers to the Turkish Navy. But even with the existing composition of the Black Sea fleet may well win in the confrontation with a stronger enemy.

Unfortunately, all the same ships of the Russian Black Sea fleet is rapidly aging. If urgent measures are not taken to repair, modernize and improve the fleet composition, then over the course of 10 years, the vast majority of the ships will fail due to physical wear and tear. The pride of the Black Sea squadron is the missile cruiser "Moscow". For many years he has been helped to solve urgent problems - from repair and logistics to recruiting, the authorities of the city of Moscow. But this, of course, is not enough. Fleet needs to be updated. But on the way to strengthening the Russian Black Sea fleet there was an almost insurmountable political obstacle - the Ukrainian authorities made the Black Sea fleet a bargaining chip in their dispute with Russia over gas discounts.

The attitude of the Ukrainian authorities to the Russian Black Sea fleet and the military living in the Crimea is worse than to the unloved stepson. But as a changeable map in negotiations with Moscow, it is quite suitable, therefore, the Ukrainians tolerate the presence of Russian sailors on the territory of the Crimean peninsula. In 2010, Kiev successfully linked its demands for gas discounts with the extension of the presence of Russian ships off the coast of the Crimea. But not only Russian-Ukrainian gas problems hang a sword of Damocles over the Russian Black Sea Fleet. For a long time, the Russian Ministry of Defense has been negotiating with the Ukrainian side on the use of Russian military infrastructure located on the Crimean peninsula. But so far the discussion is not at the level of specialists, as Moscow suggests, but through public diplomacy involving the media, as decided by the Ukrainian side. Therefore, it is still not possible to conduct a constructive dialogue on this important issue for all parties.

Although in 2010, an agreement was signed to extend the base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet on the territory of the Square to 2042, there are still unresolved issues related to the updating of combat units of the Russian fleet, the sharing of Sevastopol berths and problems with unresolved taxation of all goods supplied from Russia to maintain the functioning of the Black Sea Fleet.

The Ukrainian side, without waiting for the results of the inventory of military facilities of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, already demands to pay compensation for the 38 berths used by Russian sailors.

In accordance with the agreement of 1997, Russia does not have the right to increase the number of military units in the Crimea, as well as to carry out work on upgrading weapons. But according to Russian military officials, Ukraine does not object to replacing outdated ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet with new ones. Kiev insists that the modernization and re-equipment of the Russian Black Sea fleet can begin only after the signing of an intergovernmental agreement. The main obstacle in signing such a document is the demand of the Ukrainian side to provide a complete list of new weapons, which will replace outdated ones. According to Kiev officials, Ukraine fears that ships equipped with elements of tactical nuclear weapons will be deployed at the Russian Black Sea naval base. The Ministry of Defense, in turn, is trying in the negotiation process to defend its position on the autonomy of Russia in the Black Sea region. The Defense Ministry plans to deploy six new submarines (636M project) and about six corvettes (20385 project), ten small rocket and artillery ships in their bases in the Crimea.

Ukraine puts a decision on the modernization of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in direct dependence on negotiations on additional gas discounts. The Kharkiv agreements on payment for Russian gas for Ukraine turned out to be very economically unprofitable - and here is such a great reason to bargain for the benefits, putting the issue of coordinating the modernization of the Russian Black Sea fleet on a scale.

The negotiation process is safely frozen in the air - no one has gained anything, but, so far, has not lost. On the one hand, the Ukrainian leadership, which is ready to make the decisions necessary for Russia, on the condition of energy and economic concessions on the Russian side, on the other, Russian politicians, who do not want to lose their diplomatic and economic decisions. And the Black Sea Fleet of Russia is waiting for the politicians of both countries to understand that a powerful military fleet on the Black Sea coast is beneficial for both countries.

Materials used:
http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2013/04/17/vneshnyaya-politika-ukrainy/709017-chernomorskii-flot-obrechen-byt-razmennoi-kar
http://flot.com/nowadays/structure/black/priceofforce/index.php?print=Y
http://e-news.com.ua/show/212679.html
http://korrespondent.net/worldabus/1075441-ria-novosti-chernomorskij-flot-cena-sily
http://news.rambler.ru/17908196/
Author:
Photos used:
http://kchf.ru
156 comments
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  1. Mitek
    Mitek 4 May 2013 08: 06
    33
    A powerful fleet is beneficial to both countries ... This is if the countries are normal, their relations are normal. And in Ukraine, at the helm of a near-minded thief. Why does he need a strong army and navy? After the reign of Yanuk, anything is possible, right up to the split of Ukraine. Eastern in this situation will come to Russia and then there will begin a large-scale restoration of enterprises and production chains. And Western .. yes to hell with her. Their dream of an independent Ukraine will come true. now nothing really will depend on Ukraine. It is a pity that during this whistle, people suffer ..
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 4 May 2013 10: 03
      10
      For almost 5 centuries, the Tatars, having formed the Crimean Khanate on the peninsula, collected a rich tribute.

      The author should have known that the Crimean Khanate was significantly larger. First, the Golden Horde occupied the entire territory of modern Ukraine. And only after the Battle of the Blue Waters in 1362 with the local Tatar garrisons (the events of the Great Memorial took place in the Horde and she could not expose the army) Lithuania was able to recapture the northern lane. The border of the later fragment of the Golden Horde, the Crimean Khanate, was established along it. Those. on the left bank, the border included the Crimean fortress Kermenchuk - now Kremenchug, Poltava region. On the right bank, the border was even further north, almost under Kiev - near Chigirin. That was before Catherine II. Here is a map of the Academy of Sciences of 1745:
      Little Russia in the year 1745.
      1. sanych your division
        sanych your division 4 May 2013 21: 03
        +6
        the device is now on the cards. Kosovo is a prime example
      2. itr
        itr 4 May 2013 21: 52
        0
        What are you writing what a golden horde
        All the charm of the war with them, the Russians grabbed well, not like not the Ukrainians
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 4 May 2013 22: 25
          16
          Quote: itr
          What are you writing what a golden horde
          All the charm of the war with them, the Russians grabbed well, not like not the Ukrainians

          At that time, the Ukrainians had not yet been invented. All were Russian. And northern Russia, thanks to the genius of Alexander Nevsky, just escaped Tatar direct control and all the "charms" associated with it, building relations of an AUTONOMOUS state within the Golden Horde. Thanks to this, Russia subsequently rose. Daniil Galitsky behaved differently. The consequences are obvious too.

          PS. Less to you is not mine.

          Quote: Alekseev
          Do more resolution, the map is too small, nothing is visible!

          Look here: http://atlases.narod.ru/maps/atl1745/map13.djvu
        2. Alexander D.
          Alexander D. 5 May 2013 12: 17
          11 th
          You first read in the internet who hetman Petr Sagaidachny is and read the history of the Khotyn Fortress.
          1. stroporez
            stroporez 6 May 2013 11: 13
            +1
            yeah --- and the Barkulabov Chronicle, too, read ............
      3. Alekseev
        Alekseev 4 May 2013 22: 05
        0
        Do more resolution, the map is too small, nothing is visible! laughing
      4. Silhouette
        Silhouette 5 May 2013 15: 10
        -3
        And you, dear, should understand that Russia has never fought with the Crimean Khanate. She fought with the Ottoman Empire or just the Turks, because from its very foundation the Crimean Khanate became a vassal of Turkey and never constituted a sovereign state entity with which to fight.
        Dologoruky’s troops occupied Crimea without a fight. No battles with the Tatar troops, as the author of the article already believes, were not mentioned. The Tatars did not know how to build fortresses, and all the garrison of the fortresses were Turkish, even in Crimea.
      5. AntonR7
        AntonR7 5 May 2013 15: 35
        -1
        In fact, the horde did not occupy Ukraine, since occasionally collecting tribute as racketeers it is not a capture in the literal sense.
        1. Simon
          Simon 5 May 2013 21: 12
          0
          It’s a normal tribute, and how many people were taken and sold into captivity by the Tatars and still attacked the Moscow Principality and also robbed.
    2. nok01
      nok01 4 May 2013 12: 00
      13
      Well, even if a split occurs, they will certainly not be independent, since the western regions are deeply subsidized! They’ll have to climb under someone’s wing .. And as for the restoration of enterprises, this is also a question, because the Tatar has already bought up half the country :)
    3. Army1
      Army1 4 May 2013 13: 03
      +4
      What a huge powerful and beautiful cruiser Moscow in the background.
    4. itr
      itr 4 May 2013 21: 51
      14
      Stop believing what is not
      Russian fleet withdraw to Novorossiysk.
      Return the Crimea through the weather. Before the Turkish invasion
      It's time to admit Ukraine Russia a worthless ally, I would say that it is better to trust Mongolia
      And this is very sad
    5. gispanec
      gispanec 4 May 2013 22: 20
      +1
      Quote: Mitek
      And in Ukraine, at the helm of a near-minded thief

      facts! and in Russia at the helm of God dandelions ..
      Quote: Mitek
      Why does he need a strong army and navy?

      just a thief and you need a strong army and navy to constantly wear a crown on your head !!
      Quote: Mitek
      . Eastern in this situation will come to Russia and then there will begin a large-scale restoration of enterprises and production chains.

      And why is that? I ask you to clarify, and about the chains so they were stolen from us back in the 90s, and finished off in the 2000s!
      Quote: Mitek
      It is a pity that during this whistle, people suffer

      +100% ... to the point!
  2. domokl
    domokl 4 May 2013 08: 09
    +9
    Nothing new. Ukraine has a repertoire in its repertoire and the decision will be appropriate ... We will pay the money, but in return we will set such conditions for the Ukrainian industry and agricultural production that they will howl everything ...
  3. igort5883
    igort5883 4 May 2013 08: 11
    10
    How could such an agreement be signed in 1997? The next stage of betrayal! Not only did they give Crimea, they also signed a treacherous agreement! How did Stalin at one time not make out Khrushchev? The story of the surrender of Crimea began with him.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 4 May 2013 08: 30
      24
      Quote: igort5883
      How could such an agreement be signed in 1997?

      Do you remember who was in power then? our drunk was waving everything and looking at everyone in a glass of water.
      Ukraine has the only lever of pressure on Russia - this is the fleet. It may be worth investing $ 3 billion in Crimea, projects, media, propaganda, etc. Three months later, the residents themselves will hang the Russian flag over Sevastopol. They, too, are not crazy about the Ukrainian government.
      1. Garrin
        Garrin 4 May 2013 08: 49
        36
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Three months later, the residents themselves will hang the Russian flag over Sevastopol.

        Residents of Sevastopol and so on all holidays hang Russian and St. Andrew's flags in the windows. I saw it with my own eyes. Impressive. But support is needed, I agree, moreover, both material and moral.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 4 May 2013 09: 13
          26
          Quote: Garrin
          But support is needed, I agree, moreover, both material and moral.

          So I’m talking about this, while people just hang flags in the windows, as teams wait. there will be a team, there will be support from Russia, then they will hang the flag over the administration themselves. But then again, only if there is a support arm from Russia.
          1. Garrin
            Garrin 4 May 2013 09: 56
            15
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            But then again, only if there is a support arm from Russia.

            In this regard, Luzhkov (although I did not like him as a measure of Moscow) conducted a very correct policy towards Sevastopol. This patronage of the ships, and the MSU branch in Sevastopol, and Russian textbooks for schoolchildren. I don’t know how it is now, but I’m afraid that with Luzhkov’s departure everything is fucked up. But in vain.
          2. elmi
            elmi 4 May 2013 12: 56
            +9
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            But then again, only if there is a support arm from Russia.

            Do they lie what happens if we take, for example, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, they clearly felt the support of Russia, they issued passports to citizens and, as a result, Abkhazia and South Ossetia were independent and, moreover, they themselves asked to join Russia, and our government did not dare to accept Russia . Apparently afraid of the indignation of the West. Our rulers tried to grow the whole territory to themselves (Alaska doesn’t count) and the current government gives away the opposite: part of the Barents Sea shelf was transferred to Norway, China part of the territory of Russia was given to Tarabarova island and part of the Bolshoi Ussuriysky island. And now the government indirectly encourages Japan to the islands, at least it does not firmly refuse.
            1. sanych your division
              sanych your division 4 May 2013 21: 07
              10
              no more terrible crime before the people is squandering and trafficking in children. as we observe
          3. Sevastopol
            Sevastopol 4 May 2013 18: 44
            +3
            absolutely for sure.
          4. BYRY
            BYRY 4 May 2013 22: 47
            +3
            And why only in Sevastopol? And the whole Crimea is worse?
        2. DEfindER
          DEfindER 4 May 2013 13: 25
          +8
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Three months later, the residents themselves will hang the Russian flag over Sevastopol.

          The problem is that Crimea does not have its own, at least some significant autonomy, there is no president, their prime minister is appointed by the Ukrainian parliament as agreed with the president, the people of Crimea can not influence their fate at all .. Yes, we have more provinces in Russia they have rights.
          And the population of Crimea is 58,5% Russians, 24,3% Ukrainians, 12,1% Crimean Tatars, 1,4% Belarusians, 0,5% Tatars, 0,4% Armenians, 0,2% each.
          If 76% of the region’s population is not Ukrainians, then how can you not give them the status of normal autonomy, it’s more like an occupation ..
          1. Sevastopol
            Sevastopol 4 May 2013 18: 53
            13
            it does not look like. this is a real occupation. Sevastopol didn’t have such a thing and there is no right to even choose a mayor !!! the president of Ukraine appoints his governor. this is a real occupation. Ukraine has brought nothing but harm to Crimea during the whole period of "independence". moreover, under Yushcha she also tried to incite the Tatars against the Russians.
            this is real genocide.
            living standards and salaries in Crimea are comparable with the countries of northern Africa. and this is not funny. 200 bucks a month is considered a good salary. 110 bucks pension. that is how we live.
        3. Uncle Lyosha
          Uncle Lyosha 4 May 2013 18: 21
          +1
          oh how are you right !!!
        4. Sevastopol
          Sevastopol 4 May 2013 18: 43
          +9
          why go far. in a neighboring house on the balcony, someone (or rather, not someone, but an ordinary Sevastopol, most of them) hung the Russian flag. probably already has not cleaned the year.
        5. nnz226
          nnz226 4 May 2013 21: 59
          +5
          That's for sure! And Russia, since the drunkard was her prizIdent, blurted out: “What are we going to fight with Ukraine because of the Crimea,” and that's it - it was blown away. And it is high time to work in the style of "the most advanced democracy in the world" under the name "usa". Any political concession is negotiated with a bunch of economic preferences, and any economic concession (even dropping $ 10 off the gas price) is linked to a long list of political steps in Russia's favor. At least giving the Russian language the status of a second state language. Bandera's last-borns, tearing the St. George ribbons from the veterans on Victory Day, using a club across the back, etc. etc.
          1. Wind_er
            Wind_er 6 May 2013 07: 06
            0
            I don’t know how to insert a series of photos, but it's a pity ... but even so
        6. Wind_er
          Wind_er 6 May 2013 07: 04
          0
          Residents of Sevastopol are more Russian than most living in Russia!
          And Russian flags are there not only on holidays, they hang all the time. Moreover, the ratio with Ukrainian, approximately, 4: 1, not in favor of the same-blocking. And every Sunday "Sevastopol Ritual"
      2. dema46
        dema46 4 May 2013 09: 21
        +5
        Mr. Romanov, you don’t really know the essence of the matter. I’ll try to briefly explain how a person who served in the nuclear-technical part was. Prior to 1997, Ukrainian sovereignty was practically recognized within the current borders. The Russian government did not make any claims on Ukraine There was also a need to take away all nuclear ammunition from Ukraine. The Ukrainians did not want to do this at first, but ours and the Americans put pressure on them. In response, our rulers pledged not to make claims in particular in the Crimea and in Sevastopol. although Sevastopol was of allied subordination. that Crimeans are rightly eager to rush to Russia. maybe the navy pensioners are also in favor, but the bulk of the population is against. Now basically everything is against it, because propaganda works. I have a lot of colleagues left in Crimea in retirement and I have someone to listen to.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 4 May 2013 10: 02
          +7
          Quote: dema46
          Ukrainians did not want to do this at first, but ours and the Americans put pressure on them. In response, our rulers pledged not to make claims in particular in the Crimea and Sevastopol.

          Amer promised not to impose sanctions against Belarus, in exchange for a nuclear-free status, so what? And I'm talking about the desire of the citizens of Crimea themselves, but this requires the desire of Russia, the world has changed, and Russia too.
          Quote: dema46
          .on the account of the fact that Crimeans are rightly rushing to Russia, don't be mistaken. Maybe naval pensioners are in favor, but the bulk of the population is against it.

          So if there is no support from Russia, what is surprising.
          1. sanych your division
            sanych your division 4 May 2013 21: 10
            +1
            amers :)))) these can promise :)))
        2. alex13-61
          alex13-61 5 May 2013 13: 02
          +5
          Dema46-Basically, all the Slavic population of Crimea for entering Russia .. I somehow know better on the spot ... And someone deceived you ...
      3. MG42
        MG42 4 May 2013 13: 47
        +6
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        It may be worth investing $ 3 billion in Crimea, projects, media, propaganda, etc. Three months later, the residents themselves will hang the Russian flag over Sevastopol.

        Previously, Luzhkov and the Moscow Government invested money in Crimea, but in general Russia should certainly increase its presence at least in the Ukrainian television. space, there is a sense, the first is not even a fleet, but an accession to the vehicle.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 4 May 2013 13: 59
          +2
          Quote: MG42
          Russia should of course increase its presence at least in television Ukrainian. space

          And what channels do you show from Russia?
          1. MG42
            MG42 4 May 2013 14: 15
            +6
            Directly not one does not show (on regular air) >>> only in cable TV they cut Ukrainian. advertising (how tired of it), but everyone has different operators and different packages that I saw the first channel, NTV mir, Russia k, REN-TV, rtr - planet, nostalgia, etc., you can put a satellite directly and watch what you want, what noticed when I was growing up. advertising, it is much shorter, now I look at a little box.
            1. Nicholas C.
              Nicholas C. 4 May 2013 14: 56
              +4
              Quote: MG42
              Directly not one does not show (on the air)

              I remember when Yanukovych just became president, and when his delegation came to Russia, then Medov who ruled under a television camera suggested Ukraine broadcast to Russia with any two of its broadcast channels in exchange for two Russian ones. What prevented? Do not know?
              1. MG42
                MG42 4 May 2013 15: 13
                +6
                Quote: Nikolai S.
                What prevented? Do not know

                Obviously, there was a sharp cooling in relations, after a discount of $ 100 \ thousand cubic meters was achieved. in exchange for an extension of the lease until 2042 of the Black Sea Fleet base in Crimea, that's all, when the gas price began to grow according to the contract and fluctuations in the oil price <there is a formula> = Yanukovych actively started talking about European integration ...
                Directly Russian news went only in the 90s, the program "Time" then it was supplanted by Ukrainian on "Inter" since then everything has been there for fifteen years ... only in the cable network, and they draw through the satellite, i.e. ... NTV and NTV mir, like RTR and RTR planet, are two big differences in broadcasting, of course about polit. product, no talk show.
                1. Nicholas C.
                  Nicholas C. 4 May 2013 15: 31
                  +3
                  Quote: MG42
                  Obviously, there was a sharp cooling in relations, after a discount of $ 100 \ thousand cubic meters was achieved. in exchange for an extension of the lease until 2042 of the Black Sea Fleet base in Crimea, that's all, when the gas price began to grow according to the contract and fluctuations in the oil price <there is a formula> = Yanukovych actively started talking about European integration ...

                  That is, they did not calculate the consequences of this discount. Russia and Russians would later be better if they did not give it. And then Dimon-iPhone of Russia spoiled and for 40 billion. $ Threw Russia.
                  1. MG42
                    MG42 4 May 2013 15: 45
                    +6
                    The paradox is that the price and discount is now average European, that is, Tymoshenko helped sign the miracle contract for Gazprom (signed by Miller and Dubina) ...
            2. Alex Nick
              Alex Nick 5 May 2013 04: 16
              +1
              There is such a program: RUS.TV player - shows everything like a plate
    2. Prokop
      Prokop 4 May 2013 10: 13
      10
      Quote: igort5883
      How did Stalin at one time not make out Khrushchev? The story of the surrender of Crimea began with him.

      With Khrushchev began the smooth surrender of the USSR. All that this leader undertook turned around serious losses (material, moral, etc.) for our Motherland!
      1. zvereok
        zvereok 4 May 2013 12: 37
        +7
        You are talking about Medvedev.
    3. 73petia
      73petia 6 May 2013 02: 40
      0
      And how could they vote for such a constitution in 1993?
  4. Sibiryak
    Sibiryak 4 May 2013 08: 13
    +4
    Kharkov agreements on payment for Russian gas for Ukraine turned out to be very economically unprofitable - and here is such a great reason to bargain for benefits, putting on the scales the issue of coordinating the modernization of the Russian Black Sea fleet.

    Ukrainian politicians always remind me of beggars, not to unite and live like people, not like animals. Maybe all because they are not Ukrainian at all ?!
    1. Shawnee
      Shawnee 4 May 2013 09: 39
      +4
      Quote: Sibiryak
      not to unite and live like people

      That is, you want Ukrainian corrupt officials and thieves to unite with Russian corrupt officials and thieves. Even without this they live like people. If the authorities of the states stop robbing the people, then it’s possible to reunite.
      Black Sea Fleet in the Crimea is a great opportunity to merge the loot away from the eyes of the regulatory authorities, and go to a resort like business trip and no more. If there was a need, the Black Sea Fleet would be developed in Novorossiysk and Tuapse.
      1. Sibiryak
        Sibiryak 4 May 2013 12: 59
        +1
        Quote: Shawnee
        That is, you want Ukrainian corrupt officials and thieves to unite with Russian corrupt officials and thieves.

        You didn’t mix anything up, where do I write anything about corrupt officials ???
        Quote: Shawnee
        If the authorities of the states stop robbing the people, then it’s possible to reunite.

        Moreover, in general, the robbery and reunion of a single people ??? Do you have the association associated with robbery ???
        Quote: Shawnee
        Black Sea Fleet in the Crimea is a great opportunity to merge the loot away from the eyes of the regulatory authorities, and go to a resort like business trip and no more.

        Who what, who what !!!
        Quote: Shawnee
        If there was a need, the Black Sea Fleet would be developed in Novorossiysk and Tuapse.

        So there is no such need!
        But in general, what exactly did you personally want to tell me with your tirade ???
  5. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 4 May 2013 08: 13
    19
    The Black Sea Fleet is a centuries-old tradition, and Sevastopol is the heart of the fleet. How much blood is shed protecting this glorious city. It must be returned to Russia as soon as possible.
    1. Deniska999
      Deniska999 4 May 2013 08: 37
      +4
      The composition of the Black Sea fleet must be consistent, and it is better to surpass the fleet of potential opponents in the region, this is unequivocal and there are no concessions and compensations to Ukraine as much as possible.
      1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 4 May 2013 09: 16
        +6
        Instead of the Olympics, it would be better if they built their base, then the Galician brotherhood would think a lot!
        1. gispanec
          gispanec 4 May 2013 10: 44
          10
          Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT
          Instead of the Olympics, it would be better if they built their base

          In no case, instead of, but with the stolen money allocated for the construction of Sochi14. There is akurat to the base and that's enough drinks
          1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
            NOBODY EXCEPT US 4 May 2013 22: 39
            +1
            And maybe two bases ....
      2. Gordarik
        Gordarik 4 May 2013 09: 40
        +3
        Minus put for the last statement "and no concessions and compensation to Ukraine, as much as possible." At the moment, Ukraine is an independent state and Crimea is an integral part of it. If you act according to your logic, then you can forget about the base in Sevastopol (if you adhere to the terms of the agreement) ... You can, of course, ignore the agreement and simply re-equip the fleet by presenting Ukraine with a fact (whatever one may say, this is a conflict and spoiled reputation of Russia) or simply take and capture the Crimea ... which is also not acceptable. "Palyuby" will have to negotiate.
        1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
          GELEZNII_KAPUT 4 May 2013 11: 42
          0
          I didn’t put any minuses, but they are already building it, not of course like in Sevastopol, and this is a fact!
          1. Gordarik
            Gordarik 5 May 2013 05: 37
            +1
            I am aware that Russia is building a new base in Novorossiysk. This fact does not negate the fact that if Russia wants to have its base in Sevastopol, then Russia will have to negotiate with Ukraine. My comment above was aimed at the fact that during negotiations, when one side has something that the other side does not have, but it, the second side, wants it, it cannot have this position:
            Quote: Deniska999
            ... and no concessions or compensation ...
  6. APASUS
    APASUS 4 May 2013 08: 32
    +2
    All these games will end badly! You have to deal with economics, not politics! And then the time will come when Ukraine will not be able to drive out the Black Sea Fleet, because the country will really need that small part of the annuity money.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 4 May 2013 10: 04
      +7
      Quote: APASUS
      And then the time will come when Ukraine will not be able to drive out the Black Sea Fleet, because the country will really need that small part of the rent money.

      She now will not be able to. In addition to ships, the fleet has a huge infrastructure, where tens of thousands of civilians, mainly Sevastopol, are involved. Can you imagine what kind of social explosion will happen if these people are left without work?
    2. Shawnee
      Shawnee 4 May 2013 10: 32
      +3
      Quote: APASUS
      that small portion of rent money

      Sailors go to the latrine, water is drained - money to Ukraine. At the weekend they ate ice cream - drank beer - Money to Ukraine. The officers went to the cafe, the car was refueled - money to Ukraine. And so much. A considerable part of the budget of Sevastopol is a side effect of the presence of the fleet.
      Although, if the Turks were allowed in there, they would have made a second Antalya in the North and in Lyubimovka.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 4 May 2013 14: 18
        +3
        Garrin Shawnee
        Do not be so naive!
        The history of Yushchenko’s rule showed that in order to get into mythical Europe he was ready for anything !!
      2. avt
        avt 4 May 2013 16: 30
        +2
        Quote: Shawnee
        Although, if the Turks were allowed in there, they would have made a second Antalya in the North and in Lyubimovka.

        There is no second Antalya and there will not be any chances to be invested in Turkish resorts, and they, like the Turks, do not need a competitor. An example of this is Bulgaria. So, they will knock down trifles, but no more.
  7. gispanec
    gispanec 4 May 2013 08: 39
    -9
    Returning Crimea to the Russian Federation is just as unrealistic as Alaska! It’s time to calm down and start building a new base for the Navy.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 4 May 2013 08: 57
      13
      Quote: gispanec
      It’s time to calm down and start building a new base for the Navy.

      A new base is being built in Novorossiysk. But Sevastopol will never be surrendered. Not for that, our ancestors died there.
      1. gispanec
        gispanec 4 May 2013 09: 07
        -6
        Quote: Garrin
        But we will never give up Sevastopol. Not for that, our ancestors died there

        are you ready to go and kill the Ukrainians ?????? ..... after all, TAKE Crimea is the beginning of the war !!!! By the way, if only, supposedly we will take the Crimea, then what ??? .... it will be immediately shared by Prokhorov Potanin Miller Lisin Kirimov Dvorkovich Putin Teddy bear and everyone else with them. You, as a citizen, will not get a ***, and you will pour the blood again ... and you will get the second Chechnya, only worse if it’s 10 times! Following your logic, we must give both Kaliningrad and the Kuril Islands ..... well, I already spoke about Alaska.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 4 May 2013 09: 53
          16
          Quote: gispanec
          ..take the Crimea is the beginning of the war !!!!

          Self-determination and the will of the citizens of Crimea, through a referendum, there will be no warrior.
          Quote: gispanec
          ..it will be immediately shared by Prokhorov Potanin Miller Lisin Kirimov Dvorkovich Putin Teddy bear

          yes, they’ll run right ahead and share the race laughing
          Quote: gispanec
          . You, as a citizen, will not get ***

          What are you who cheated on you?
          Quote: gispanec
          and you’ll be pouring blood again ... and you will get a second Chechnya, only worse than once in 10!

          There will be no blood, there will be a reunion of one people that is long overdue.
          1. gispanec
            gispanec 4 May 2013 09: 59
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Self-determination and the will of the citizens of Crimea, through a referendum, there will be no warrior.

            Only residents of all Ukraine forgot to ask, well, it's fantastic.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            yes, they’ll run right ahead and share the race

            I would say the prince will fly and who is faster
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            What are you who cheated on you?

            I am asking you this question! Who offended you with the division of Ukraine?
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            There will be no blood, there will be a reunion of one people that is long overdue.

            Apples ripen in Uncle Vanya’s garden, and my friends from Odessa don’t even know that they are ripe!
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 4 May 2013 10: 06
              +6
              Quote: gispanec

              Only residents of all Ukraine forgot to ask, well, it's fantastic.

              Crimea autonomy and for the referendum the consent of the whole of Ukraine is not required.
              Quote: gispanec

              I am asking you this question! Who offended you with the division of Ukraine?

              Sevastopol Russian city and this is the point! such an answer hi
              Quote: gispanec

              Apples ripen in Uncle Vanya’s garden, and my friends from Odessa don’t even know that they are ripe!

              Someone has matured, and someone is voting for Tyagnibok
              1. gispanec
                gispanec 4 May 2013 10: 14
                +4
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Crimea autonomy and consent for the whole of Ukraine is not required for a referendum

                Do you believe in fairy tales ?? .... in our country the whole of Russia consists of autonomies and republics ... even though the same Tatarstan has the right to self-determination, it will give it the right to use it !!!
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Sevastopol Russian city and this is the point! such an answer

                then we need a clear answer precisely to the word RUSSIAN: Alaska, Koenigsberg, Iturup, in this regard, RUSSIAN can be said, period !! ??
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Someone has matured, and someone is voting for Tyagnibok

                How strange it turns out, you say that those who vote differently from your opinion are absolutely wrong !!! But voting is everyone’s personal business!
                1. DEfindER
                  DEfindER 4 May 2013 13: 35
                  +2
                  Quote: gispanec
                  we have the whole of Russia consists of autonomies and republics ... even though the same Tatarstan has the right to self-determination, it will give him the right to use the current !!!

                  No one forbids Tatarstan to hold referenda, they generally have very high autonomy there, they have their own passports besides Russian ones, they just understand that they don’t need complete independence, unlike those figures in the Bialowieza Forest ..
                  1. zyryga
                    zyryga 4 May 2013 17: 00
                    +5
                    I live in Tatarstan, only Russian passports, no others.
                  2. Gecko
                    Gecko 4 May 2013 21: 34
                    +2
                    They issue purely Russian passports or Russian passports with an additional page in the Tatar language, if desired.
                2. wax
                  wax 4 May 2013 20: 38
                  +3
                  On January 20, 1991, a question was put to a referendum in Crimea:
                  Are you in favor of recreating the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic as a subject of the USSR and a party to the Union Treaty?
                  1 Crimeans had the right to vote. The referendum was attended by 777 people (841%). Of these, 1 people responded positively (441%).

                  The referendum did not clearly define the status of Crimean autonomy. Interpretation may mean any status:
                  a party to the Union Treaty independent from the USSR and the RSFSR;
                  as part of the RSFSR, since it was the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic that was being restored, and before that the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, which existed from 1921 until the region was transformed into the region in 1945, was part of the RSFSR;
                  simple restoration of autonomy within the Ukrainian SSR, since the text of the Union Treaty was not adopted. The decision of the Supreme Council of the Ukrainian SSR implied precisely this interpretation; according to the adopted law, the Crimean ASSR was reinstated as part of Ukraine.

                  As a legal basis for the referendum, the Crimean Regional Council used the “Temporary Referendum Regulation ...” adopted by him, the legal force of which was called into question since it was not approved by the Supreme Councils of Ukraine and the USSR.

                  So everything can be subjected to rethinking and revision, because the legal foundations of this whole design, called Ukraine, are quite unsteady, despite the fact that the existing borders of Ukraine are internationally recognized.
            2. Garrin
              Garrin 4 May 2013 13: 44
              +6
              Quote: gispanec
              I am asking you this question! Who offended you with the division of Ukraine?

              Although not a question for me, but I will answer. Millions of people like me also offended me when they separated us from our native borders and customs, and besides, they oppose us to each other. Jesuit politics, in the style of Hitler and Goebbels. And the legs do not grow from Russia, but from the Washington Apcom. And many in Ukraine have already "spread their legs" and are only waving to the Apkom members. Oh well! am
              1. gispanec
                gispanec 4 May 2013 14: 09
                -2
                Quote: Garrin
                Although not a question for me, I will answer. Millions of people like me also offended me when they shared us with their native borders and customs

                and for the sake of restoring historical justice, are you ready to go and cut unwanted people? ..... kindly not decide !!!
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 4 May 2013 14: 10
                  11
                  Quote: gispanec
                  for the sake of restoring historical justice, are you ready to go and cut the unwanted ?.
                  And the one who shares and lives on this, and slaughter is not a sin
                  1. gispanec
                    gispanec 4 May 2013 14: 27
                    -5
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    And the one who shares and lives on this, and slaughter is not a sin

                    then what was the matter ?? ... first, the government of the Russian Federation should, as you say, be cut out .... but Crimea will not be given to you anyway, therefore, will you go to slaughter the Ukrainians? Am I right in your thought?
                    1. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 4 May 2013 14: 30
                      +5
                      Quote: gispanec
                      therefore go to cut the Ukrainians?
                      Do Ukrainians gain a lot from this division? Those who - "YES", even for a couple of clips for the PM will not be typed (the rest are by no means Ukrainians, which is typical, and they do not live in Ukraine)

                      By the way, the term "cut out the unwanted" is by no means mine. Your. So you hold the answer for him ...
                      1. gispanec
                        gispanec 4 May 2013 17: 54
                        -4
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        By the way, the term "cut out the unwanted" is by no means mine. Your. So you hold the answer for him.

                        no, dear COMMODITY, your will from your mouth sounded like this
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        And the one who shares and lives on this, and slaughter is not a sin
                        so that it’s exactly what you want and you need someone to care for and for what ... Ukraine is an independent state and you can’t change it .... well, except letting the houses go .... and for now, people like you want to take everything away and to bleed blood, normal Ukrainians will NEVER in a referendum want to unite with YOU !!! ... you are our troll .... minus until you turn blue, and you will not succeed with the Crimea, and I'm glad, because Dvorkovich’s yachts will not stand there and Potaninov ... and the Russian Black Sea Fleet will not ask them for permission to leave ... our ala oligarchs there will put up a fence along the entire coast and they will charge an entry fee
                      2. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 4 May 2013 22: 56
                        +1
                        Quote: gispanec
                        so what exactly do you want blood
                        Are the concepts of "slaughter fattening" and "cut out those you dislike" synonyms? Although ... for a hero of keyboard battles, this is not surprising. And another question, what do you personally mean by the concept of "normal Ukrainian"? Incidentally, not Yushchenko? And about "take everything away" - this is the wrong address, this is what the current leaders of the Square are fond of. In Crimea, this is especially clearly visible, the latter is being pulled apart. The central airport of Simferopol, the other day - a dolphinarium in the Artbukhta of Sevastopol.

                        By the way, about yachts for the rich and where they are based. Balaklava has already been taken away to private burrows, now another "young architectural talent" (Ukrainian, by the way) recently came up with a project to chop off the Hospital Cape in the main bay of Sevastopol from the Black Sea Fleet, to demolish the hospital and the surrounding quarters. Guess WHY? I want to dazzle an elite yacht club there. There just won't be a place for Sevastopol residents, except perhaps in the role of a servant ... And all the time she was in power, Timoshenko tried to swallow the Massandra wine association and ... the Sea shipyard near Feodosia (also for a yacht club). And so far, the Kiev oligarchs are setting up fences along the sea. By the way, they DO NOT let anyone go there, they only do it for themselves. So what about the fare - you were dreaming ...
                  2. stroporez
                    stroporez 6 May 2013 11: 32
                    +1
                    Quote: gispanec
                    First, the Russian government should, as you say, cut out ....

                    ------- very good thought ..........
                2. Egoza
                  Egoza 5 May 2013 01: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  And the one who shares and lives on this, and slaughter is not a sin

                  In the times of Yushch, orange "figures" were actively advancing to Sevastopol and Crimea. For example, a certain V. Zelenchuk was a member of the deputies of the Sevastopol city council (is he?)
                  "People’s self-defense" Vasily Zelenchuk in criminal circles of Sevastopol is a well-known person. Judge for yourself: in the recent past, an active member of the Sevastopol organized crime group Chesnokovykh-Sergienko, a person involved in a number of criminal cases is an authorized representative of the Minister of Internal Affairs Yuriy Lutsenko in the region. ...
                  Help "UK": Zelenchuk Vasily Vasilievich was born on August 21, 1960; native with. Verkhovyna, Ivano-Frankivsk region. A citizen of Ukraine, registered and lives at: Crimea, Sevastopol, Chastnika Street, 34. Owner of the Ochakovsky market, part of the ground floor of the Ukraina Hotel (entertainment center, casino, restaurant). He is the owner of extensive farmland in the Kherson region. Founder (investor) of the following enterprises: Viking-Soyuz LLC (OKPO 31277538), Crimea Cooperative (OKPO 24873081), Ukrsoya LLC (OKPO 32489789), Agroinvest PE (OKPO 32294224), Trans-Leasing LLC "(OKPO 32520954), DTS LLC (OKPO 20699485), VSV LLC (OKPO 23666026), Ukrsevmortur LLC (OKPO 24862456), Malus Invest LLC (OKPO 24872667), Production and Commercial Company Light LTD "(OKPO 22234810), LLC Auto-Lux (OKPO 25149921).
                  http://cripo.com.ua/print.php?sect_id=4&aid=48852
                  This "tovarisch" actively promoted to the "masses" the idea of ​​a gratuitous transfer of the building of the cinema "Friendship" located on the street. Schmidt, 1 in Sevastopol ". But it broke off - only 2 people voted "for". However, I draw your attention to how many enterprises he managed to seize, people depend on him, and do you think he will allow his employees to vote for joining the Russian Federation? One hope for the character of Sevastopol! The Ek will succumb as they did not succumb to the Nazis.
              2. rolik
                rolik 4 May 2013 20: 15
                +3
                Quote: gispanec
                Quote: Garrin
                Although not a question for me, I will answer. Millions of people like me also offended me when they shared us with their native borders and customs

                and for the sake of restoring historical justice, are you ready to go and cut unwanted people? ..... kindly not decide !!!

                And kindly, in your understanding, is it like ??? A referendum, then, is this a violent method?
              3. rolik
                rolik 4 May 2013 20: 23
                +2
                Quote: gispanec
                Quote: Garrin
                Although not a question for me, I will answer. Millions of people like me also offended me when they shared us with their native borders and customs

                and for the sake of restoring historical justice, are you ready to go and cut unwanted people? ..... kindly not decide !!!

                And kindly, in your understanding, is it like ??? Or is a referendum, for you, a sophisticated form of violence? And what could be more democratic, according to the current fashion for democracy, a referendum?
                1. gispanec
                  gispanec 4 May 2013 20: 55
                  -3
                  Quote: rolik
                  kindly, in your understanding, how is it ??? Or is a referendum, for you, a sophisticated form of violence? And what could be more democratic, according to the current fashion for democracy, a referendum?

                  I’m tired of chewing ..... don’t be stupid ... according to you, after the referendum, the Ukrainian government will not send troops ... or they will rig the referendum or they won’t allow it to be held ... I explain clearly ... a naive Chukchi man .... yes, I'm sorry me ... tired already
        2. Kars
          Kars 4 May 2013 10: 43
          -2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Self-determination and the will of the citizens of Crimea, through a referendum, there will be no warrior.

          and a multi-alternative referendum. accession to Russia, Turkey, 52 US states, the Ennoy Chinese province, protectorate of Qatar, independence with the conclusion of foreign connections))))))))
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          yes, they’ll run right ahead and share the race

          they won’t run away, of course, why do they need extra assets to the resort area, especially when, under the guise of changing administrations, you can raid pozanimatsa. Then the Black Sea Fleet will quickly go to Novorossiysk so that it would be where to put the yachts)))
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. gispanec
          gispanec 4 May 2013 11: 51
          -6
          Quote: Ivan.
          Here’s a member of the party, not war,

          I will ask for a translation into Russian
          Quote: Ivan.
          nobody will take Crimea and put where it was

          the same pervode is needed
          Quote: Ivan.
          And where did you get that and "ukry" will become Chechens

          and where did you read this ??, I just talked about the possibility of a constant guerrilla war, such as in Chechnya

          Quote: Ivan.
          brothers from each other will not fight each other for "independence"

          fought in the 17th, but right now what?
          Quote: Ivan.
          "Enlightenment" comb
          it's like? belay

          Quote: Ivan.
          And dividers will find their dividers
          and the denominators have their square root wassat
      3. Ivan.
        Ivan. 4 May 2013 11: 53
        +1
        are you ready to go and kill the Ukrainians ?????? ..... after all, TAKE Crimea is the beginning of the war !!!! By the way, if only, supposedly we will take the Crimea, then what ??? .... it will be immediately shared by Prokhorov Potanin Miller Lisin Kirimov Dvorkovich Putin Teddy bear and everyone else with them. You, as a citizen, will not get a ***, and you’ll pour the blood again ... and you will get the second Chechnya, only worse if it’s 10!

        Here is a party member for you and not a war, no one will take Crimea away, but they will put it where it was and the rest of the outskirts will not think for a long time, but with the rotten west, let it rot in splendid isolation. And where did you get that "maskals" and "ukry" will become Chechens, brothers will not fight each other for "independence" from each other. The process of "enlightenment" of the brain has already begun and will be intensified. And there are divisors for divisors.
        By the way, as a citizen, I will get a country and not like now - a stump.
      4. Garrin
        Garrin 4 May 2013 14: 08
        +4
        Quote: gispanec
        Are you ready to go and kill the Ukrainians ?????? ..

        I won’t go kill the Ukrainians, but I’ll very much go to defend my FAMILY.
        1. wax
          wax 4 May 2013 20: 46
          +2
          By the way, for some reason, the Ukrainians, having received from Russia even that which did not belong to it, did not disdain to shoot Russians in the Caucasus for thirty pieces of silver, even a strategic plane was shot down by former Soviet weapons. So figure it out in the darkness of soul mates.
      5. wax
        wax 4 May 2013 20: 29
        +2
        Normally, after the denunciation of the 1922 treaty, the issue of increments of the territory to the borders for 1922 should be considered separately.
        Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (Vienna, May 23, 1969) here http://base.garant.ru/2540820/
        The blame for the situation lies with Yeltsin and the Supreme Council of the RSFSR.
      6. Garrin
        Garrin 4 May 2013 20: 43
        +3
        Quote: gispanec
        Are you ready to go and kill the Ukrainians ?????? ...

        And you are the purest provocateur.
        Quote: gispanec
        and for the sake of restoring historical justice are you ready to go and cut the unwanted ?.

        They tell you. that no one is going to kill anyone, is not going to cut, and you continue these bloody nonsense with manic perseverance.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Garrin
            Garrin 4 May 2013 21: 55
            +4
            Quote: gispanec
            And you stupid goblin with caliber brains ..............

            After your pearl, you have become completely uninteresting. Banal hysteria. Not even a minus. Farewell.
  8. NOBODY EXCEPT US
    NOBODY EXCEPT US 4 May 2013 22: 41
    0
    In what you are right ....
  9. AntonR7
    AntonR7 5 May 2013 15: 39
    0
    No need to give up so easily, refund
  10. Simon
    Simon 5 May 2013 21: 37
    0
    But we must strive for the return of Crimea. yes
  • Kosatka
    Kosatka 4 May 2013 08: 39
    +8
    To those Hucksters who now rule and ruled before that on this territory under the brand UKRAINE fleet (and any, military, commercial, fishing.) Is not needed. Everyone who was and is in power is personally enriched at the expense of the territory of the former USSR Defense Ministry in Sevastopol and the environs of this glorious city. Not casual, where in the only city where GAULYADER from Kyyova is appointed. These su.i turned the city into a big dirty market. And the current Minister of Defense Pashka Lebedev (damn just Grachev did not write) not the last bit contributed to this, he is a well-deserved raider and premier developer in Sevastopol. Now in full swing in the Crimea is an inventory of land and facilities of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. Itself in the interests of a friendly family and relatives of the president.
    1. TRex
      TRex 4 May 2013 10: 08
      +4
      I fully confirm. Sevastopol now and before that are two big differences. But this land is watered with the blood of hundreds of thousands of our ancestors, therefore - be that as it may, we must recognize the historical belonging of this city to Russia. Can act civilized and just BUY it from Ukraine? There are sellers ...
      1. gispanec
        gispanec 4 May 2013 10: 33
        +1
        Quote: TRex
        Can act civilized and just BUY it from Ukraine? There are sellers ...

        What is it like?? together with people? ... bullshit .. it is necessary to develop our economy, raise the standard of living, win the gold of the Olympiad ... so that we are envied !!! What would the income level of our sailors at times exceed the income level of Ukrainian !! Then and only then, perhaps, part of Ukraine in the form of Crimea, will decide to reunite families separated by a drunken outing to hunt in the Belarusian forests!
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 4 May 2013 14: 15
        +6
        Quote: TRex
        Can act civilized and just BUY it from Ukraine? There are sellers ...
        One very small problem. Civilized, you can buy only what documents are available. But Sevastopol was NEVER transferred to Ukraine, not a single piece of paper, pure self-capture by the type of Tatar ... So civilized will not work ...
        1. Garrin
          Garrin 4 May 2013 17: 56
          +4
          Quote: Misantrop
          So civilized buy does not work ...

          Valera, in this state formation, any "popandopulo" will draw the necessary document. Just give me some money ...
  • pinecone
    pinecone 4 May 2013 08: 46
    11
    In December 1991, the state criminals who gathered in the dense Belarusian forest did not discuss the issue of Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet. They acted on the principle, "the main thing is to destroy the state, and then it will be seen."
    1. cumastra1
      cumastra1 4 May 2013 09: 06
      +8
      I will add - not just to ruin a power, but to divide it into specific principalities, each is his own king. And so that the people do not rebel against the robbery - give him an external enemy - big and terrible. The option with the enemy decided on its own (remember the suitcase station Russia), now people need to be educated in submission and ignorance - hello reform of abrasive. By the way, it was not started in Russia, but from the separated republics. And now it’s not republics, but sultanates and khanates, in the west - counties and satrapies of the western powers. And the fact that they gathered in the forest is symbolic - robbers hide their gangs in the forests.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 4 May 2013 08: 53
    +5
    Damn, how did these independent ones get it. Just bring there new ships and that’s it. And let them at least guess with their Europe. Or leave from there and wait until the Turks take the Crimeans into their knives. And then come to the rescue.
  • individual
    individual 4 May 2013 09: 52
    +3
    All the problems in Crimea stem from the insufficiently thought out diplomatic work of Russia. The United States in Japan has established a base on the island of Okinawa and is not asking permission to deploy any weapons, including nuclear weapons. Currently, tiltroplanes are being placed despite the squeak of the aborigines. Earlier, on the protests of the Okinawans for the development of the base, the United States announced that "3 billion of its own money and the problem has resolved. There is a lot to learn and this should be used by our foreign policy department. It's good that they have moved away from the failed policy of EBNovsky. Russia.
    1. gispanec
      gispanec 4 May 2013 10: 01
      -1
      Quote: individ
      Now we need to move forward in upholding the interests of Russia.

      I agree 100%, but only first you need to move the economy forward ..... well, and then ......
      1. individual
        individual 4 May 2013 10: 21
        0
        Qualitative diplomacy of Russia will go and the economy will tighten. Everything in the world is interconnected.
    2. avt
      avt 4 May 2013 16: 40
      +1
      Quote: individ
      All the problems in Crimea are from the insufficiently thought out diplomatic work of Russia. The United States in Japan has created a base on the island of Okinawa and does not ask permission to deploy any weapon, including nuclear. Convertiplanes are currently being placed despite the squeak of Aboriginal people.

      fool Well, you can’t do that. Japan actually signed the CAPITULATION and no one has canceled it. And whitewash and bilateral agreements with Ukraine are not. Well, if you talk about DIPLOMATIC work, then select facts more carefully. request
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 4 May 2013 10: 56
    +5
    As a person related to Sevastopol. You need to immediately annex the Crimea, or at least the Sevastopol region. No matter what. People there feel betrayed.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 4 May 2013 11: 05
    -1
    Yanukovych won the last election for Russian money. Partially fulfilled its obligations. He extended the lease term of Sevastopol until 2042, but with the replacement of old ships with new ones something slows down. But soon in Ukraine, the presidential election is again possible to sponsor again, but with more stringent conditions. By the way, the author of the article forgot to mention the construction of new frigates of project 11356 for the Black Sea Fleet. Three of them are under construction. Three more will be laid in the coming year - two. The commissioning of all 6 units is scheduled until 2015-16.
    1. Sokol peruna
      Sokol peruna 4 May 2013 11: 45
      +1
      By the way, the author of the article forgot to mention the construction of new frigates of project 11356 for the Black Sea Fleet.

      The author did not forget to mention them; he confused them with corvettes, pr. 20385.

      Three of them are under construction. Three more will be laid in the coming year - two. The commissioning of all 6 units is scheduled until 2015-16.

      The head 11356P will be commissioned at the end of 2014 and the beginning of 2015. All series, God forbid, that by 2018 it was delivered.

      He extended the lease term of Sevastopol until 2042, but with the replacement of old ships with new ones something slows down.

      Well, the renewal of the auxiliary fleet in Sevastopol has already begun. On April 21, the road tug "RB-389" was relocated to Sevastopol.
  • patriot2
    patriot2 4 May 2013 13: 58
    +7
    Let Yanukovych ask Crimeans: who are they - Ukrainians or Russians. The answer is obvious. Therefore, the fleet should be in Crimea and Crimea itself as part of Russia. And this question must finally be resolved.
  • misterwulf
    misterwulf 4 May 2013 15: 24
    +4
    Yes, not a bargaining chip! The author has a poor idea of ​​what Ukrainian (kakl) is. They already consider it "their land", and the Donetsk marauders - also their land. Both are kakl breeds.
    The whole position in relation to the Black Sea Fleet is to harm and getting money for rent, not to share with Sevastopol, because this (in their opinion) is a rollback by the same Russian (the wives and relatives of the majority of the Black Sea Fleet are citizens of Ukraine!).
    Here's a ukrology ... A lot of things! Natsik just love to protest - they pay for it ...
  • My address
    My address 4 May 2013 15: 42
    +2
    When recalling the Crimea and Sevastopol, I remember the unforgettable EBN. He outdid on the results of Nikita-corncob. Cool played on spoons! And all thoughts about the country were - where else and what would be the source of its glory. And what a legacy with the heirs left!
  • Andrew 121
    Andrew 121 4 May 2013 16: 38
    +4
    As conversations come about Russia and Ukraine, I immediately recall this picture.
    1. Sevastopol
      Sevastopol 5 May 2013 19: 46
      +2
      no one has anything against Ukrainian nationality. they are purely formally different from the Russians. mainly by citizenship (with the exception of a handful of Galicians, they are few, but they are active). the matter is in the state of Ukraine. only in it. in this misunderstanding, where young Russians are already beginning to consider themselves Ukrainians. from ignorance and school curriculum. because for 20 years in Ukraine there is no separation of the concepts of Ukrainian by citizenship, and Ukrainian by nationality. there's no such thing. all who have a Ukrainian passport are called Ukrainians. in Russia there is a Russian and a Russian. but in Ukraine there was not and no. moreover, there is no word "Russian" in the Ukrainian language. excluded. specially. there is "rosiyanyn". everything is much more subtle, isn't it? the Ukrainians themselves would not have enough brains. is the hint clear?
    2. stroporez
      stroporez 6 May 2013 14: 19
      0
      100% !!!!!!!!!!!! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 4 May 2013 16: 55
    +4
    Somewhere I read this scenario: Ukraine gives us the Crimea in exchange for the accession of Transnistria. For Russia, frankly speaking, a good option.
    And to find out the mood of the inhabitants of the Crimea, a referendum is needed. The authorities of Ukraine do not want to conduct it, since this option is losing for them.
    1. MG42
      MG42 4 May 2013 20: 58
      +3
      Quote: VohaAhov
      Somewhere I read this scenario: Ukraine gives us the Crimea in exchange for the accession of Transnistria. For Russia, frankly speaking, a good option.

      I wonder where you read this, an authoritative source? And Transnistria, according to join Ukraine, there still no one asked Moldova, a fantastic scenario.
      In Crimea, many Ukrainian. high-ranking officials have property, including the president, by the way, he is now resting there in his dacha like a slave. vacation, photo of the cottage I posted >>> voluntarily with this will not part.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 4 May 2013 17: 02
    +1
    [quote] Extended the lease term of Sevastopol until 2042, but with the replacement of old ships with new ones something slows down. [/ quote]
    Well, the renewal of the auxiliary fleet in Sevastopol has already begun. On April 21, the road tug "RB-389" was relocated to Sevastopol. [/ Quote]

    The previous Russian ship, which received the right to be based on Sevastopol, was the Samum MRK. And it was back in 2001 or 2002. For 12 years to agree on the relocation of one not very large auxiliary vessel (not even a warship) is a "serious" progress.
    And "Admiral Grigorovich" will be launched this summer. And in 2014 the ship will enter service. The project has been worked out, and I think there will be no big difficulties with its construction and commissioning
    1. Sokol peruna
      Sokol peruna 4 May 2013 19: 19
      +2
      The previous Russian ship that received the right to be based at Sevastopol was the Samum MRK. And it was back in 2001 or 2002.

      In 2002.

      For 12 years, agree to relocate one not very large auxiliary vessel (not even a warship)

      This ship carries the flag of the auxiliary fleet of the Navy i.e. for its relocation it is necessary to sign a bilateral protocol as for a warship.

      - this is "serious" progress.

      This is a step forward, which shows that a dialogue is possible between Russia and Ukraine on the issue of updating the Black Sea Fleet.

      And "Admiral Grigorovich" will be launched this summer. And in 2014, the ship will enter service.

      In the summer they will lower it, 1.5 - 2 years will be spent on completion of the test, then interflot. Previously, 2015 in the Black Sea still does not appear.

      The project has been completed, and I think that there will be no big difficulties with its construction and commissioning.

      We will see.

      Best regards

      Z.Y. Zadolbal already this Russian-Ukrainian srach.
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 4 May 2013 17: 23
    +1
    Surely in this issue Ukraine is still being heated up by the "gentlemen of America".
  • RUkola
    RUkola 4 May 2013 18: 17
    0
    And what military need is it in the Sevastopol base ?? So much money is spent on all the crap of the Olympics, summits, world championships, maybe it was worth building your base in Novorossiysk. Fear of losing face, historical traditions ?? But Yeltsin and Putin already lowered the Russian Federation morally below the baseboard. Russians live in Crimea, and supposedly the Black Sea Fleet gives them some confidence in something ?? But look at Transnistria, where Russians live, they didn’t want to live in Moldova and declared their independence, and Russians in Crimea wanted to live in Ukraine, they made a choice what matters now to them, nobody particularly oppresses them. The language there is regional Russian, everywhere. Moreover, Putin spits on Russians living in other republics of the former USSR.
    1. Sevastopol
      Sevastopol 4 May 2013 18: 30
      +7
      1. Novorossiysk is unable, due to geographical features, to be a full-fledged fleet base. unless, of course, Russia claims military dominance in the Black Sea. who owns Sevastopol, that owns the Black Sea. no one has canceled this old truth.

      2. Russian Crimea did not want to shoot and slaughter the Ukrainian brothers. the coup attempt was in the 90s (Meshkov), Russia did not support it.

      3. Crimea did not make a choice. for us, Ukraine made him a traitor Yeltsin.
    2. MG42
      MG42 4 May 2013 21: 20
      +3
      Quote: RUkola
      And what military need is it in the Sevastopol base?

      New bases can only accept relatively small ships of the third or fourth ranks. Now the Black Sea Fleet has about eight large ships of the first or second rank (cruisers, etc.), as well as large auxiliary vessels.
      Moreover, it is these ships that most often perform "politically important" tasks in the Mediterranean Sea and oceans. The Navy is unlikely to give up large ships in the coming decades. What to do with "extra" ships like the flagship cruiser "Moskva"?
      In addition, Sevastopol is a very convenient base with a developed infrastructure and a rich glorious past.
    3. misterwulf
      misterwulf 5 May 2013 21: 53
      +1
      Oh, how the conversation went! This is something from the 90s!
      Hand over Sevastopol! And what? The "establishment" will not diminish. Surrender the southern Kuriles and Kaliningrad. And then - Leningrad (in rhymes it turned out - St. Petersburg).
      Hand over what you did not pass before. Did not make it.

      This is such a type of "Russian" who is "respected" in Galicia. Like: "We hate Moskaly, but we respect and love the" Russians "! They are oppressed there ..."

      Sevastopol is the geographical center of the Black Sea (for those who understand, you can not continue) with deep-water bays, infrastructure, for which more than 1 hundred thousand of our ancestors died (who were not of the "Russian" type).
      This is "control without ships" over the entire Black Sea area. This is the "Black Sea throne". Or give it to a stew, which has already been borrowed from a geopolitical enemy for it? (it does not matter which one will offer, will give it back).
      It is Ukraine! Country 404, where the opposite is true. No matter how Russia calculates its "interaction and cooperation" with this country, the opposite will always be the case!
  • Sevastopol
    Sevastopol 4 May 2013 18: 26
    +7
    except for hatred among Crimeans, this pseudo-state Ukraine does not cause anything. This is the gangster-Bandera occupation of Crimea, which has been going on for more than 20 years. and there was a moment in the 90s when Russia could completely return Crimea to itself. but EBN (let it burn in hell forever) stupidly pretended not to notice anything.

    Well, today’s Putin doesn’t stir anything on this issue. the wrong one is apparently the leader in Russia, again the wrong one. I hope the new president has the will to return Crimea to Russia. and give us only a command. just the Russian authorities are silent. as if the land is Crimean, watered with Russian blood, and Russian people (70% of the population!) are not needed.
  • lexa333
    lexa333 4 May 2013 18: 58
    -3
    how tired this srach.
    1. sanych your division
      sanych your division 4 May 2013 21: 16
      0
      and this is far from the end
    2. MG42
      MG42 4 May 2013 21: 28
      +5
      Quote: lexa333
      how tired this srach.

      Take a look at Ukrainian. <Censor.net> for comparison. And appreciate what <srach> is in the comments ..
      1. alex13-61
        alex13-61 5 May 2013 13: 15
        +2
        And I, more than once, wanted to draw the attention of site visitors to the Russophobic, orange garbage dump - "Censor.net" ... Where are the "hated yntylegentiv" ...
        1. MG42
          MG42 6 May 2013 00: 03
          +1
          Quote: alex13-61
          Russophobic, orange trash

          Some frames and here I am present from there, just the rules of this site and moderators restrain the flow of Svidomo thought mixed with obscene words ...
    3. Misantrop
      Misantrop 4 May 2013 23: 04
      +6
      Quote: lexa333
      how tired this srach.

      And HOW tired of this robbery with the redistribution of property, which has not stopped for three decades, that the two newly-minted "titular" nations in Crimea are doing ...
      1. Kaa
        Kaa 4 May 2013 23: 16
        +3
        Quote: Misantrop
        that the two newly emerged "titular" nations in Crimea are doing ...

        Do you remember how under the "orange" Yushcha they squeezed the Black Sea Fleet out of Sevastopol in order for "white-blue" Akhmetov to arrange a transshipment port there for exporting coal? So how are they fundamentally different? request
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 5 May 2013 09: 24
          0
          Quote: Kaa
          transshipment port for coal export?

          There is now not weak coal transshipment. Yes, and grain near the 12th pier on the North. He would have done it anyway, that's just the railway, and so it works at the limit of possibilities. Add an additional stream of coal - an inevitable transport collapse
  • Kurkin
    Kurkin 4 May 2013 20: 45
    +1
    Something special services have become completely worthless to us together with the foreign ministry. They would learn from s. It is necessary to create our opposition in Crimea and western Ukraine, demand a referendum, ultimately stir up the revolution and take what is ours back. And in general, since the USSR has collapsed, it is possible not to recognize or reconsider some decisions of the USSR government. In particular, the resolution, or decree, I do not remember exactly, from 1964, it seems, according to which Khrushchev gave the Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR.
  • Alekseev
    Alekseev 4 May 2013 22: 15
    +1
    The fleet in Sevastopol does not have a special military role.
    Has a political one. And every Ukrainian government understands that brazenly demanding the withdrawal of the fleet from historically Russian territory is to make a big "gambling", as they say in Odessa. Moreover, with unpredictable consequences.
    And as a military force, the fleet (not only the ship’s composition, but also the naval missile-carrying aviation, coastal troops) should be based and developed on the territory of Russia.
  • stranik72
    stranik72 4 May 2013 22: 29
    +4
    Gentlemen, dreaming of Crimea is not harmful, it is harmful for the country not to notice that we will soon lose the Stavropol Territory, and in the Krasnodar Territory there are problems with the survival of Russians. And in Moscow after 21:XNUMX, there are fewer Russians on the streets than foreign-speaking citizens. Russia is in danger, China and Norway have been given so much that whole generations of Russians turned over in their graves, and all this was done by the putmedies, but I didn’t see the strongly indignant citizens of my country that "Russian lands are being squandered. So there is no one to return Crimea to, as if the Kurils and Sakhalin were not given back in the near future.
    1. prior67
      prior67 7 May 2013 21: 26
      -2
      But will you pay off the Crimean Tatars from the Chechens, will there be enough gas and oil?
  • revera92
    revera92 4 May 2013 22: 30
    +3
    Quote: Sevastopolets
    it does not look like. this is a real occupation. Sevastopol didn’t have such a thing and there is no right to even choose a mayor !!! the president of Ukraine appoints his governor. this is a real occupation. Ukraine has brought nothing but harm to Crimea during the whole period of "independence". moreover, under Yushcha she also tried to incite the Tatars against the Russians.
    this is real genocide.
    living standards and salaries in Crimea are comparable with the countries of northern Africa. and this is not funny. 200 bucks a month is considered a good salary. 110 bucks pension. that is how we live.

    This is how most of Ukraine lives.
    1. Sevastopol
      Sevastopol 5 May 2013 14: 27
      +1
      Well, what the hell is this Ukraine needed at all? what is the use of it? so this is not the homeland for most residents, because they were born in another, large and strong country, and not in this under-state. only throw people and rip off? this country existed and exists against its citizens, and not for them.
  • zbidnev
    zbidnev 4 May 2013 23: 00
    -1
    Honestly read the comments and become scared. The Russians it turns out you have no allies (except for the armed forces and strategic forces). Already share the neighbors - Crimea is for us - Transnistria is for you, eastern Ukraine is for us, and western Ukraine is for Europe or again for us. The strategy is powerful - colonial, not far from the Americans you have left, which you haunt constantly. Yes, the bandits now in our power beg for money, they want to sell for more expensive. Yes, a large percentage of the population supports you from the old memory, but after such ideas, this percentage decreases. Remember during the Soviet Union, the most friendly were Ukraine, Belarus and Russia and, oddly enough, Georgia in the Caucasus. We are united by faith and blood and worldview. And now the Georgians are enemies. Russia was a great power with a rich history, but it also suffered defeats precisely when it remained alone. Separately, they will not hold on to us, but the Union cannot be strengthened with such strategies. Ukraine needs to go through this chaos, to form its own elite which is still not there. And many believe in Ukraine that the priority is strengthening relations and friendship with Russia and Belarus. We do not steal your gas; we do not need it; we have our own reserves, but we have enough for the population. On this pipe sits a bunch of intermediaries and speculators, and the population from these gas games is only worse. And we can build our state, Ukraine is one of the richest countries in Europe, to disperse all these wretched people.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 5 May 2013 00: 47
      0
      Quote: zbidnev
      Honestly read the comments and become scared.

      And you do not worry about the Russians. We'll figure it out, slowly.
    2. Sevastopol
      Sevastopol 5 May 2013 14: 40
      +4
      why? this under-state is doomed to split! this is a country where 1% of the rich, 20% of the poor, and the rest are beggars (pensioners and unemployed) who receive a little more than 100 bucks a month. and what does anyone share? you ask Crimeans whether they need this shameful state of Ukraine!

      and whom to disperse in power? So what? come the same, or worse - Bandera. or other swindlers like Julia or Yanyka. This has already happened and there will never be changes, as long as this lack of existence exists within its current borders!

      because the West and the South-East of the country have opposite values. therefore, any politician will be the same sly "both yours and ours," and the country will forever mark time. like a monkey from an anecdote who could not choose between smart and beautiful.

      and what kind of state can you build, and who is this "you", newly-minted professional Ukrainians who do not remember kinship? shit you couldn't and can't. only to steal, mess around and "puff" - nothing more. what they have been doing for 20 years, so they will continue to do so. rob your own people until all nafig suffocate. During the period of "independence" Ukraine has lost more population than during the war.

      there is no industry, no one is engaged in agriculture and will not (the EU does not and will not) what is in this Ukraine? due to what state to build? can oil and gas? so no. can intellectual potential? no, either. your Ukraine doesn’t have nichrome, and it will only get worse when the artificially maintained hryvnia collapses and collapses, and the banking system that is already falling apart.
      1. Sevastopol
        Sevastopol 5 May 2013 15: 15
        +4
        Ukraine’s external debt of yours is 135 billion bucks, the internal debt of under 30 billion is growing, especially the external one by leaps and bounds! what will this unfinished give? the budget is negative by almost a billion bucks. is it a state? this is a beggar living on the basis of IMF lending, which, naturally, is not free, and which drives the country even further.
        they will build, yeah. builders ept. already built so that great-grandchildren do not pay!
        1. Gecko
          Gecko 5 May 2013 17: 57
          +1
          I think everything is already thought out and it will be so, Ukraine will be divided in half, one half will go to Russia, and the second banderlozha part will repay debts as the legal successor to Ukraine wink
  • piksel
    piksel 5 May 2013 01: 14
    +4
    It’s time for Russia to get a whip and start whipping the local cattle. You can’t do anything useful with one gingerbread, you need to alternate the stick with the gingerbread.
  • piksel
    piksel 5 May 2013 01: 15
    +2
    In general, amers need to learn how to court local princes
  • shurup
    shurup 5 May 2013 02: 54
    +1
    I think the comments of the commentators on the split of Ukraine are inappropriate and provocative. Behind them is seen a precedent in relation to Russia.
    The status of the straits has not yet been resolved and, against the backdrop of the Baltic Molotov-Ribentropp rebounds, it is time to recall the agreements of the 1st World War.
    If a horse clicks its nose, it will wag its tail, or ... will kick.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 5 May 2013 04: 54
    +1
    Quote: Sokol Peruna
    The previous Russian ship that received the right to be based at Sevastopol was the Samum MRK. And it was back in 2001 or 2002.

    In 2002.

    For 12 years, agree to relocate one not very large auxiliary vessel (not even a warship)

    This ship carries the flag of the auxiliary fleet of the Navy i.e. for its relocation it is necessary to sign a bilateral protocol as for a warship.

    - this is "serious" progress.

    This is a step forward, which shows that a dialogue is possible between Russia and Ukraine on the issue of updating the Black Sea Fleet.

    And "Admiral Grigorovich" will be launched this summer. And in 2014, the ship will enter service.

    In the summer they will lower it, 1.5 - 2 years will be spent on completion of the test, then interflot. Previously, 2015 in the Black Sea still does not appear.

    The project has been completed, and I think that there will be no big difficulties with its construction and commissioning.

    We will see.

    Best regards

    Z.Y. Zadolbal already this Russian-Ukrainian srach.


    Thank you so much for such a detailed answer.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 5 May 2013 05: 00
    +3
    Quote: RUkola
    And what military need is it in the Sevastopol base ?? So much money is spent on all the crap of the Olympics, summits, world championships, maybe it was worth building your base in Novorossiysk. Fear of losing face, historical traditions ?? But Yeltsin and Putin already lowered the Russian Federation morally below the baseboard. Russians live in Crimea, and supposedly the Black Sea Fleet gives them some confidence in something ?? But look at Transnistria, where Russians live, they didn’t want to live in Moldova and declared their independence, and Russians in Crimea wanted to live in Ukraine, they made a choice what matters now to them, nobody particularly oppresses them. The language there is regional Russian, everywhere. Moreover, Putin spits on Russians living in other republics of the former USSR.


    Crimea is an unsinkable aircraft carrier of the Black Sea. It is in the center of the World Cup. RRC "Moskva" leaving the buoys of the Sevastopol Bay can shoot through the entire Black Sea (there would be target designation). Bukhtane freezes, and the climate is mild and good. And in Novorossiysk there is an unpleasant breeze - BORA. How many troubles he brought. The last of them - damage to the missile ship "Dagestan". There were cases of accidents when auxiliary vessels sank near the pier itself, in my opinion it was a hydrographic vessel.
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 5 May 2013 12: 52
    0
    What is there to rant - to return Crimea to Russia without asking permission from Ukraine to introduce new ships and upgrade old ones. This Russian land, watered with the blood of Russian soldiers, they went to .op with their demands that they would fight or what would be with us? They will shout, steal and calm down. I see no reason to bicker with this pro-Western criminal. This government does not represent the interests of the peoples of Ukraine and Crimea.
    1. sprut
      sprut 5 May 2013 14: 13
      +1
      Or wait a bit and everything will depart, financing the pro-Russian parties and various social movements ...
    2. Sevastopol
      Sevastopol 5 May 2013 18: 16
      +4
      Your words, yes, to the rulers of today's Russia to bring to an understanding. otherwise they are more interested in the Olympiad. I am not against the olympiad of course (on the contrary, sincerely glad, of course). but for this money one could buy all Ukrainian politicians and the Crimea in addition.

      Of course it’s naive. But this is only at first glance.
      bribes are the norm. nobody is even discussing it on the street, not like in the media. not interested. usually like garbage to take out.

      a place in the Verkhovna Rada costs a fixed amount of money, as in the Supreme Court. bring, if there is a desire, you are waiting with open arms. only give money and at least put your president - no question.

      but Putin and Co. do not calve. scored. and therefore, there is no particular hope for him. for the fleet for 25 years - many thanks again. but, I repeat, I wrote earlier that if he (no one else, do not care) did this, he could be given to the tribunal for the betrayal of the motherland.

      nothing. historical justice will prevail. and we are not going anywhere from the Crimea Crimea. wait for the political, and indeed the will of the Russian rulers regarding the Crimea. and then - a matter of technology.
      1. sprut
        sprut 6 May 2013 21: 49
        +1
        HOORAY!!!! Do not hesitate, I also believe that everything will fall into place. It remains only to wait ...
  • sprut
    sprut 5 May 2013 14: 11
    0
    Someday (I do not think that in a very distant future) Russia will regain all these territories ....
    1. nat2000
      nat2000 5 May 2013 19: 41
      0
      with today's Russian authorities, you wouldn’t lose your
  • German
    German 5 May 2013 14: 57
    +5
    It’s insulting and painful to hear statements addressed to Ukraine when you were born and living your whole life here .... But it’s even more insulting and painful to understand that this criticism is fair. I have most of my relatives in Russia (my father is from Moscow suburbs and my mother even has German roots Russian relatives) and the farther the less opportunities to visit each other. FUCKING INTEGRITY !!!! from whom and from what ?!
  • AntonR7
    AntonR7 5 May 2013 15: 34
    0
    Ukrainians were stunned, it’s time to return Crimea, otherwise they acquired it in due time, but gave Khrushchev, now they are fixing problems for us. Outrageous.
    1. prior67
      prior67 7 May 2013 21: 45
      -2
      First, give the Japanese islands, Germans Kaliningrad, Finns and Georgians, Moldovans and Estonians and so on.
  • Sevastopol
    Sevastopol 5 May 2013 16: 04
    +3
    will not be returned. must be taken peacefully. and Crimeans only let Russia give the command.
  • Spike
    Spike 5 May 2013 16: 53
    0
    We have some kind of power in Russia (thieves are also lacking), but I apologize for some sort of political prostitution in Ukraine you cannot name otherwise !!! At least you cannot buy a voter to the question: With whom will we be friends. Although the answer is clear Russia, and who else can give work. USA and the European Union ?! laughing It is worth Russia to introduce harsh measures for visiting their employers (already the fine is already 800 thousand rubles), and this is already observed (excluding Belarus and Kazakhstan) where these Yanukovychs will be ... what And work on the full North and South Stream is the final stage of taming !!!
    1. Sevastopol
      Sevastopol 5 May 2013 19: 14
      +1
      I myself am formally in Ukraine. although Sevastopol never considered Ukrainian, and I don’t think so. and he would have called on the Russian authorities not to stand on ceremony with Ukrainian political prostitutes (everything is absolutely the same as the opposition, there haven’t been others, and never will be). they just need to wring their arms behind all the parameters. seriously so. to pain. otherwise they will pull the rubber, and at the same time and further, as usual, rob everyone and everything, starting with their own citizens.
      we ordinary people will survive. and it wasn’t. would be a good result. but these same prostitutes will get laid out at the first press. just so far no one has tried. but in vain. they (watered-prostitutes-Ukraine) need to make a choice: you work for us for money, or you need money (for their assets and business). and that’s it. no other way. otherwise prokidyut like Yanyk Putin. okay. on a major note: everything goes to that.
  • stranik72
    stranik72 5 May 2013 17: 10
    +3
    Yes, gentlemen Russians, according to most of the comments one gets the impression that in Russia there are more troubles "fools, roads and Ukraine."
  • Naval
    Naval 5 May 2013 19: 10
    +3
    It will not be necessary to return anything, after the split, in fact, into Ukraine and Galicia, which by mistake is called Ukraine, everything will fall into place by itself, come together like puzzles, because there is no other way for Ukraine to be in a community with religiously, mentally, and historically related peoples. Yes, and Ukrainian industry in Europe and no one needs anything. Everything goes to that, wait ....
    1. prior67
      prior67 7 May 2013 21: 35
      -2
      wait, wait ... try a puzzle called the Russian Federation to assemble first! Is this a true Russian mentality not to notice a stake in your eye?
  • nat2000
    nat2000 5 May 2013 19: 38
    -1
    It is necessary to solve the problem, if not with the Crimea, then at least with Sevastopol to decide by any means. But unfortunately, the autocrat Vova Pervy can only build a cool sambo fighter on TV bully Yes, they are engaged in cheap public relations such as searching for amphoras and flying cranes on a hang glider (this is completely complete ......) belay
  • zbidnev
    zbidnev 6 May 2013 11: 49
    -2
    It is great to be very instructive to read the guarantors of our integrity (when Ukraine refused nuclear weapons, it was the United States and Russia that guaranteed us independence and integrity of the state). With such Sevastopol, of course, we will not build our own state. I did not choose my homeland, I was born in the USSR, now I live in Ukraine and respect my people. And I believe in the future of my homeland. For me, no difference from Western Ukraine or Eastern Ukraine, all people are the same with different misconceptions and their vision of life, and you can find a common language with anyone. It’s hard to live, but Rome wasn’t built right away. But pensions, although not large, are what we taxpayers bring to the budget. And if you prefer to be favored in Russia, go and live, they have enough of their problems. Your propaganda and special services work well, well done push us together foreheads !!!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • zbidnev
    zbidnev 6 May 2013 13: 51
    -1
    And what are the poor living standards in Europe. Peter 1 studied with the Europeans and created his empire, which Russians are proud of learning from them. And you need to take all the best from the whole world to create the best for yourself. We are not rushing to the EU - this is the next PR of our government before the elections. They are afraid of the EU no less than the customs union as they lose their piece of the pie. And such proverbs characterize you no better than our nationalists.
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 6 May 2013 18: 19
    0
    Half of my paternal ancestors are from Crimea, from mother Ural. Almost everyone is buried in Sevastopol. Do I really have to forget all this. And the point is not even in visas, which, like from the year 15, can be introduced. It's about politicians! Those who talk about the Tatars are lying! I spoke with many people, they didn’t come voluntarily. They threatened to burn houses, gave 50000 and said go. Of course, youth is now fooled. But 20 years have passed. They are mainly in Simferopol and Bakhchisara. And Chechnya will not be there. The bulk of the people in the Sevastopol district are related to the USSR army and the Russian army (approximately 90%). See the meeting of ships after 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX
  • prior67
    prior67 7 May 2013 23: 51
    -2
    And here is the anecdote, not in the eyebrow, but in the eye: Mikola, they cut a birch tree! "" Why !? "" Because he will come and say that this is his homeland ":))