Military Review

Shoigu with Rogozin conceived experiment

113
Shoigu with Rogozin conceived experimentA new grouping of troops should introduce into practice breakthrough ideas in military affairs.


In the near future, according to NG, an experimental group of troops (forces) - EGV will be created in the Armed Forces. In it, together with military experts, including those in the reserve, and regular test-testing centers, representatives of the defense industry and military science will be involved. In the post-Soviet stories Russia is a completely new structure, which, according to the plan of its developers, should ensure the development and implementation of breakthrough ideas in military practice. This was told to "NG" a source in the Russian government. He noted that the project was already supported by the Chairman of the Military Industrial Commission (MIC), Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, giving instructions to a number of ministries, including the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Industry and Trade, to consider this issue.

According to the source, the organizational structure of the experimental group will depend on the list of tasks defined by the military leadership of the country. “The main goal is based on the purpose of the formations of the state’s military organization, trends in the theory and practice of military affairs, together with the science of Russia, to provide defense industry enterprises with clear objectives for developing modern means of destruction and control.” In addition, one of the main tasks of the EGV being formed will be the testing of new weapons and the development of proposals for their use.

Including formation in the army and on navy new organizational and staff structures of governing bodies, units and formations that are new weapon will apply.

The fundamental difference between the EGW and previous research systems is that, according to the authors, in the process of developing new types of weapons "combat units will be left alone." And with the participation of the military-industrial complex and the Ministry of Defense, a structure will be created, “which would be able to run through mock-ups and introduce finished products into the troops.”

The author of the idea is the former chief of the General Staff of the Ground Forces, Lieutenant General Sergei Skokov, who in the summer of 2011, together with some other military leaders, filed a report on his early dismissal from military service. NG (see number from 05.11.11) and a number of media then wrote that the early dismissal of the generals was due to their disagreement with the steps to reform the army, which was carried out by the former leadership of the Defense Ministry, headed by Anatoly Serdyukov. Now, it seems, the ideas of General Skokov were listened to both in the government and in the army. These proposals are supported by reputable military experts.

The President of the Academy of Military Sciences of the Russian Federation, Army General Makhmut Gareyev, believes that the EGW is “a new look at the ways of interaction between the manufacturer and the customer of promising models of weapons and equipment, as well as the military community. As a result of the organization of this association, the defense industry complex can fully disclose its capabilities by interacting with the special structure of the Ministry of Defense (meaning EGW. - “NG”), which will not be burdened with any other tasks besides the experimental research functions. ”

The former head of the military industrial complex under the government, the chairman of the board of directors of a number of large high-tech industrial holdings producing modern weapons, Vladislav Putilin is convinced that "it is unpromising to solve the problem of creating sophisticated modern technical systems for the Armed Forces without taking into account the new forms and methods of combat operations decisions, new management procedures, where these systems are supposed to be used. ” To eliminate this contradiction, in his opinion, can be EGV.

According to the head of the interdepartmental commission of the military-industrial complex under the government of General of the Army Alexander Starovoitov, the creation of the EGV “will allow relieving the burden of unusual tasks from the combat units, thus preserving their constant readiness to solve tasks for the intended purpose. Starovoitov in this regard points to the existing problems associated with testing in the troops of the Unified Command and Control System at the tactical level (ESU TZ). His commission last fall checked the state of development of the ESU TZ. This system should have been put into service three years ago. But it is still being improved and developed, since many problems have not been eliminated. Analyzing them, Starovoitov concludes that “a significant negative impact on the creation of the ESU TK is exerted by the insufficient level of its military-scientific and scientific-technical support, the lack of effective mechanisms for determining the quality of development and its implementation in combat practice, as close as possible to the real conditions of its operation in the army. NG once wrote (see number from 12.11.12) that during the Kavkaz-2012 exercises, soldiers of the “digital brigade” who tried to use the ESU TK, who served only 1 – 2 of the month, were simply unable to exploit sophisticated equipment and combat technique. Nevertheless, this system was somehow investigated and evaluated.

It seems that some ideas of creating an experimental group of troops in the army and navy are already being put into practice. As the Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia, Colonel-General Oleg Ostapenko, said recently, the Advanced Military Research and Development System (SPVIIR) is being created in the military department under his leadership. The structure of SPVIIR will include the Main Directorate for Research and Development and Technological Support of Advanced Technologies (Innovative Research), the Information and Analytical Center for Information Collection, Analysis and Preparation, and the Coordination and Expert Department for Research and Development. In addition, it includes the Main Research and Testing Center for Robotics of the Ministry of Defense, as well as the Research Center "Bureau of Defense Solutions", located in Moscow, and the regional department of innovative developments in St. Petersburg.

In the future, it is planned to create similar regional SPVIIR structures in Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk and Vladivostok.

Corresponding Member of the Academy of Military Sciences, Colonel Edward Rodyukov believes that the framework of SPVIIR will develop "innovative research in the field of defense." And the EGV will be the “proving ground, a kind of bridge between the Ministry of Defense and the enterprises of the Russian defense and science, where these ideas will be brought to mind, tested on the experimental base of the grouping of troops and then put into production”.
Author:
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  1. svp67
    svp67 2 May 2013 06: 20
    33
    Shoigu with Rogozin conceived experiment
    Well, then I wish them success. And seeing with what energy they spend all their decisions, I am sure they will achieve it.
    1. patline
      patline 3 May 2013 08: 54
      27
      Rogozin-Shoigu, this is a truly effective tandem. Both think on the state, and act without regard to the West, like some other ministers.
      1. Ustin
        Ustin 3 May 2013 09: 58
        +2
        Please tell me what Rogozin spent.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 3 May 2013 10: 16
          18 th
          Never mind. He really cannot even fulfill his main task of pushing outdated weapons into the troops.
          1. Whitley
            Whitley 3 May 2013 10: 17
            0
            So Rogozin has no tasks. Yes, and the military is no longer such eccentrics in the letter m, which shavat any kind of type BTR-90.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 3 May 2013 10: 20
              0
              His task is the well-being of the military-industrial complex.
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 3 May 2013 13: 08
            +7
            So, gentlemen, minusers, here's a reinforced concrete fact:

            Mr. Rogozin is brutally promoting a person who has no analogue in the world © "Metis-M":
            Not a tank is the enemy of the tank, but such a simple thing - Metis. Here it is a real threat to any armored car. This means that the form of armed struggle is changing. I think that our troops will need this thing


            How long, gentlemen, are the minusers known to this complex? That's right, it was put into service in 1992, that is, 21 years.
            Is it obsolete against the background of foreign analogues, gentlemen minusers? Sure.
            Mr. Rogozin is pushing junk into the troops, gentlemen minusers? Well, of course, the fact is clear.
            It turns out? Fortunately, not yet.

            So, gentlemen, the minusers make your cursor irrationally reach for the minus? Defensive reaction to the truth? A false understanding of patriotism? Herd of feeling, not allowing you to think about what you read?
            1. soaring
              soaring 3 May 2013 13: 49
              0
              Lopatov, I completely agree with you, at all 1000% drinks
            2. Tatarus
              Tatarus 3 May 2013 14: 59
              0
              So it would be justified and correct for me to send my opponent a field towards the forest. Beautifully, no doubt. good
            3. CTEPX
              CTEPX 3 May 2013 19: 00
              +4
              Kalashnikov assault rifle is significantly more years old)).
              So what about the "Metis"?
              If possible, a little more?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 3 May 2013 19: 33
                0
                Quote: ctepx
                The Kalashnikov assault rifle is significantly more years old))

                And is it worth being proud of?
                1. CTEPX
                  CTEPX 3 May 2013 20: 07
                  +2
                  Why not if it works?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 3 May 2013 21: 14
                    0
                    Why shouldn’t these machines be upgraded all this time? Religious principles do not allow?
                    1. CTEPX
                      CTEPX 3 May 2013 21: 35
                      +1
                      Quote: Spade
                      Why shouldn’t these machines be upgraded all this time?

                      Do you have such an authorial style? Asking the question to state apparent inconsistency? Or is it still the result of special training?
                      Personally, I, in spite of all sorts of modifications and foreign imitations of Kalashnikov, prefer AKM.
                      But this is a matter of taste)).
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 May 2013 21: 49
                        +1
                        I'm trying to make you think. It's harder than yelling "urya".

                        Quote: ctepx
                        Personally, I, in spite of all sorts of modifications and foreign imitations of Kalashnikov, prefer AKM.

                        Oh, my friend, but you haven't served yet. Where can you find in the AKM troops? The 7.62 paddle was chased as a rarity. Trophy only.
                        AK-74 in the teeth, and do not care what you prefer there.
                      2. CTEPX
                        CTEPX 3 May 2013 21: 57
                        +4
                        Well, let’s say, when I served the emergency, we had both. Right in stock. And my preferences are still connected with the practical properties of AKM and AK-74)).
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 May 2013 21: 59
                        +1
                        Fresh giving, but hard to believe.
                      4. CTEPX
                        CTEPX 3 May 2013 22: 06
                        +1
                        This is just the problem of your confused consciousness)).
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 May 2013 22: 10
                        +1
                        In fact, you said that you prefer weapons, which became a rarity in the army even during the USSR.
                      6. CTEPX
                        CTEPX 3 May 2013 22: 32
                        +3
                        You see, dear, if "Metis" is as bad for you as AKM, then I think our Armed Forces have a chance)).
                      7. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 May 2013 22: 39
                        -1
                        Do not go into the subject with "Metis", you know about him even less than about AKM.
            4. eagle11
              eagle11 4 May 2013 02: 11
              +4
              Did you serve? For your information, AKM is a fairly common machine gun in the RF Armed Forces, even today. Another thing is that it is mainly distributed in units not associated with the "infantry", for example, the Air Force and Air Defense, in the early 90s I studied at the school, the AKM was my personal weapon, in my troops, so to speak, the "second weapon" (I was assigned in addition to the PM ) was also an AKM. I will say even more in 159 GIAP and support units during the withdrawal from Poland, AKS-74 was in service, as the Air Force and Air Defense were merged (239 GIADs were disbanded and the regiment was transferred to 54 K Air Defense), AKS-74 was changed to AKM, tk. in Karelia, all units had AKMs (except, of course, border guards). And now there are a lot of units in service with which the AKM is still.
            5. воронов
              воронов 4 May 2013 02: 31
              +1
              Quote: eagle11
              Have you served?

              He served in the Arbat Military District laughing
          3. воронов
            воронов 4 May 2013 02: 28
            0
            Quote: Spade
            you haven’t served yet. Where do you find in the AKM troops?

            But everything you see served in the Arbat Military District laughing AKM was personally assigned to me for several years. soldier
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 3 May 2013 20: 38
    +7
    Is an outdated complex called BSL, Mr. Crazy? How old is he?! Immediately replace with anti-gravity excavators !! All foreign agents, traitors and provocateurs who pull us back, every year insidiously writing down the requirements for this thousand years as an obsolete device, must be shot immediately! In the worst case - tomorrow morning! But early !! In 00 hours 01 minute !!!
    Could you hear what is the principal drawback of "Metis-M", except age? Without hysterics and drooling at the mouth? People are forced to "reach for the minus" by another prophet, who with great aplomb scolds people doing important work, but does not condescend to arguments. Very much we saw fools with aplomb. Usually such a fool still has very heavy shoulder straps (they are taken away there - stupid, with aplomb ... fits!), And they immediately formulate their unsubstantiated screams into orders, which they then rake with great work, or even considerable blood. Could you lower the degree of hysteria and raise the percentage of respect for the audience a little?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 3 May 2013 21: 13
      +1
      Interestingly, if Rogozin proposes to supply the troops with flintlock guns, you and your like-minded people will also yell "hurray"?

      Metis-M is 12 seconds of a soldier being under fire of all enemy fire weapons. What is the probability of survival of this "conscript prepared in one year"?
  • NOBODY EXCEPT US
    NOBODY EXCEPT US 3 May 2013 23: 49
    0
    I fully support ..... +++++++
  • S_mirnov
    S_mirnov 3 May 2013 10: 01
    10
    Experimental groupings of troops, normal people build on the basis of a strong, well-organized main army. If first the army is reduced, then the system of military education is destroyed, then military medicine is destroyed, the territory of hospitals is sold, then traitors rule the army and the country. Accordingly, there is nothing to expect that the fornication about the experimental groupings of troops is nothing more than another "innovation" for the depiction of violent activity such as scientific companies and a similar blizzard.
    1. soaring
      soaring 3 May 2013 11: 06
      +2
      S_mirnov (2) I bet you +++++++++ !!!!
      I also think that this is a simple "razvodilovo" ... Another cut of money and nothing more! So far, neither Shoigu nor Rogozin have done anything clever and intelligible! And all the chatter is already fed up with smoke ... which just carries away ... People do not even have a military education, how can they clearly understand and explain their experiments !? Let them raise the army, the factories that worked for it and equip them with modern equipment, train specialists to work on new equipment, then it is possible to put certain ideas into practice! In the meantime, all this is just a bluff ... negative fool
      1. soaring
        soaring 3 May 2013 13: 44
        +5
        Apparently I touched sore spots, since they put a minus to me ... I said my opinion, tell me yours !!! What is so out of the blue !? Yes, I'm not a fan of Shoigu and Rogozin ... While there is nothing to love them. And I will pay for such experiments from my retirement, and all of you from your payday! And God forbid that at least 10 percent went into business, and did not disappear in the bottomless pockets of the bureaucracy !!! Respectfully!
        1. yak69
          yak69 3 May 2013 15: 29
          +6
          Quote: soaring
          Apparently I touched sore spots, since they put a minus to me ...

          Your words are just like a sickle in the balls. After all, everyone is so tired of "razvodilov" and all sabotage. And so I want to believe that everything has finally begun to improve! And then you all stepped on a sore corn. laughing
          Quote: soaring
          I am not a fan of Shoigu and Rogozin ... While there is nothing to love them. And I will pay for such experiments from my retirement, and all of you from your payday!

          Shoigu can be judged by the results of his work in the Ministry of Emergency Situations, I often had to deal with him in a field working environment. He has a competent approach to work. Not without theft, of course, but moderately enough (cannot be compared with a stool and others). Sometimes he uses airplanes for personal purposes, in some places they sell written off reserves from warehouses, equipment that worked at ChSki (2-4 months) "goes" to the side, fuel, all kinds of food and consumer goods for the victims. In a word, he has something to remember, BUT (I repeat) it is orders of magnitude less than everywhere else.
          In addition, he provided his own with new equipment, the control system, the preparation and transmission of information is well set up (I know by hearsay), he organized his own research institute. In general, the man is active and economic.
          Let's hope that there will be benefits from him. Or do you, dear, want a stool back?! .. wink
          hi

          By the way, Vostrotin V.A. (Hero of the Soviet Union, Colonel General of the Airborne Forces, Afghan) for a long time was his deputy. Oh, and he drove his "wards", Mom, do not worry! I was present at these "conversations" many times laughing. In his free time, he is the entire officer corps, from ml.lt. drove to the colonel on a sports ground.
        2. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 3 May 2013 20: 49
          +1
          Well, if only ... You see, you cannot control people. You should not be given a command by a single person, and it is also highly desirable that nothing, absolutely nothing important, depend on your decisions. Why am I like this?
          When characterizing people doing public affairs, with what measures of assessment do you approach them? I quote: "not a fan" "love" "sore spots" ... In your assessments of people, you proceed ... from feelings. No calculation, no analysis, no sober assessment. I sincerely hope you are a poet. Or an artist ...
          Because if you controlled people and technology - after you left the ashes ... maybe hung with some kind of letters.
      2. yak69
        yak69 3 May 2013 14: 00
        +9
        Quote: soaring
        this is a simple "razvodilovo" ... Another cut of money and nothing more!

        That you are in vain so! The idea is sound and useful. And the direction chosen is the right one. When you start a good, useful business, competent enthusiastic people, inventors, are brought up. And this is a completely different atmosphere. Such people, as a rule, cherish the cause, they are passionate about him, this is their way of realization in life. Therefore, money begins to work correctly. Of course, the family has its black sheep, there are those who wish to snatch. But this does not mean that you have to give a good idea.
        Skepticism is from the evil one. Hooray-patriotism too. But common sense and an objective, master's approach is it!
        I wish good luck to Shoigu-Rogozin and everyone who will do this necessary thing.
    2. Explore
      Explore 3 May 2013 11: 07
      11
      Not everything is so bad! This year, admission to higher education institutions has increased 3-10 times (depending on the specialty). Particularly surprising is the hyper-recruitment for the faculty of special intelligence of the GRU (200 in the past and 250 this year, before it was completely stopped). Apparently we should expect some kind of positive changes.
      1. soaring
        soaring 3 May 2013 11: 22
        +4
        Only scouts will be around .... good drinks Keep your mouth shut! An ancient slogan to life! wink
        1. skeptic
          skeptic 3 May 2013 15: 21
          +2
          Quote: soaring
          Only scouts will be around .... good drinks Keep your mouth shut! An ancient slogan to life! wink


          Yes, they now need a lot to identify all the criminal ties, systems of counteraction to structures hostile to Russia. The main thing is that Ala-Penkovsky and Rezuns learned to calculate in a timely manner. And so, then economic intelligence needs to be untwisted, around the world. hi bully
          1. воронов
            воронов 4 May 2013 02: 38
            0
            Quote: skeptic
            Yes, they now need a lot to identify all the criminal ties, systems of counteraction to structures hostile to Russia. The main thing is that Ala-Penkovsky and Rezuns would learn how to calculate in a timely manner

            Counterintelligence deals with all this. Dear, do you see the difference between intelligence and counterintelligence? fool
      2. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 3 May 2013 11: 51
        +6
        "Not everything is so bad! This year, admission to the higher educational institutions has increased by 3-10 times .." And how much has the number of higher educational institutions decreased?
        Besides, if last year 2 cadets were accepted, and this year 20, then there is indeed a 10-fold increase!
    3. skeptic
      skeptic 3 May 2013 11: 44
      +4
      Quote: S_mirnov
      Accordingly, there is nothing to expect that the fornication about the experimental groupings of troops is nothing more than another "innovation" for the depiction of violent activity such as scientific companies and a similar blizzard.


      Any new experimental developments put in combat units are imposed on the commanders, in addition to directly fulfilling their duties, including an additional, paper reporting room. Not every commander will take due responsibility. As a result, the report can be fatal, for a new development, and not quite objective with tactical and technical use.

      Therefore, if technical specialists with sufficient experience in the combat use of such combat systems will be deployed into the troops, their tasks include only the maximum test and development of skills in working with new equipment in the field. The development of the features and specifics of the use of weapons, with direct and feedback from science, manufacturers, troops. Such a structure should be the main, connecting link of all structures of the military-industrial complex with the Armed forces of Russia. Behind this is the most productive future for the security of the Russian Federation. Like that.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 3 May 2013 11: 47
        +2
        And to save the commanders from the "paper reporting lump" - no way?
        And at the same time give combat units additional experience. At the same time, not pulling out the best commanders and contractors from the troops into an indistinct structure that will not be able to work normally.
        1. skeptic
          skeptic 3 May 2013 12: 10
          +4
          Quote: Spade
          And to save the commanders from the "paper reporting lump" - no way?
          And at the same time give combat units additional experience. At the same time, not pulling out the best commanders and contractors from the troops into an indistinct structure that will not be able to work normally.


          Sorry, but in order to test new weapons in the troops, you need feedback from science and the manufacturer (hence the paper report). It is the aforementioned, "experimental mediator" who should relieve combatant commanders from unusual tasks and transfer the accumulated knowledge in the form of methodological developments and instructions for the most productive use of new technology.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 3 May 2013 12: 22
            -5
            Quote: skeptic
            It is the aforementioned, "experimental mediator" who should relieve combatant commanders from unusual tasks and transfer the accumulated knowledge in the form of methodological developments and instructions for the most productive use of new technology.

            And these operating instructions will not work. And because of the huge difference in the level of combat training of specially selected amusing units and conventional linear ones.
            Why can not we develop a new methodology for teaching foreign languages ​​in schools with their in-depth study?
            1. skeptic
              skeptic 3 May 2013 14: 42
              +2
              Quote: Spade

              And these operating instructions will not work. And because of the huge difference in the level of combat training of specially selected amusing units and conventional linear ones.
              Why can not we develop a new methodology for teaching foreign languages ​​in schools with their in-depth study?


              Well, with such thoughts it remains only to shoot yourself and not live. And you can do it differently - the road will be overpowered by the walking one. Let's try not to be pugs from the fable of Krylov. If only because the dogs bark, and the caravan goes on.
              To work out the most optimal forms of training and activities, it is better to use experimental units that are sharpened for this. And about the "amusement", Peter I also went through similar ridicule. And then there were enough embezzlers, but the Army was created and industry. I believe that the current situation is also temporary. Army, Aviation, Navy in Russia to be !.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 3 May 2013 22: 45
                +3
                The road cannot be overcome by jumping sideways. And the car does not repair the one who is trying to do this through the exhaust pipe.

                To practice the most optimal forms of training, it is necessary to use ordinary combat units. Because as soon as they can show the real picture.

                And with these "experimental subdivisions" the guys will find themselves at a broken trough, and will do double work. First on the experimental one, then, as it has been done since the times of the USSR, on the real one.
            2. CTEPX
              CTEPX 3 May 2013 19: 08
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              Why can not we develop a new methodology for teaching foreign languages ​​in schools with their in-depth study?

              Sorry, but for what purpose?
              Are we going to attack them all over the world?
              Maybe it’s worth massively mastering the working specialties and preparing for the defense of the Fatherland?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 3 May 2013 19: 32
                0
                In order to provide troops with modern weapons. What did you think about?
                1. CTEPX
                  CTEPX 3 May 2013 20: 14
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  In order to provide troops with modern weapons. What did you think about?

                  To study foreign languages ​​in-depth in schools? Does this mean to provide troops with modern weapons?
                  And the creation of the Experimental Grouping of Forces for the practical running-in of modern weapons is to carry out
                  Quote: Spade
                  the main task of pushing outdated weapons into the troops
                  ?
                  Nu-nu)).
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 3 May 2013 21: 16
                    +1
                    Did you even read what was written, or just took a piece out of context?
                    Re-read my post again.

                    Quote: ctepx
                    And the creation of the Experimental Grouping of Forces for the practical running-in of modern weapons is to carry out

                    No, this is in order to create the appearance of work while shoving obsolete weapons into the troops.
                  2. CTEPX
                    CTEPX 3 May 2013 21: 49
                    0
                    Still, EGV is not so much for working out teaching methods. The main task is "testing new weapons and developing proposals for their use." And the main goal is "to provide defense enterprises with the formulation of intelligible tasks for the development of modern weapons and control")).
                  3. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 3 May 2013 21: 53
                    +3
                    Once again, it is impossible to work out the methodology for those who are a cut above in training than ordinary units. What is there, damn it, incomprehensible?
                  4. CTEPX
                    CTEPX 3 May 2013 22: 04
                    0
                    Firstly, it’s still not about the technique, as I wrote above)).
                    And, secondly, according to the methodology, you are not right, since its development occurs precisely in the experimental groups)).
                    And the composition of such groups may be recruited depending on the tasks assigned)).
                    For example, you can recruit fighters who do not know Russian)). Or with a university degree)).
                  5. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 3 May 2013 22: 18
                    0
                    I know. It's about imitating work.

                    The training methodology can be worked out only on ordinary units.
                    The methodology of combat use is also only on conventional units.
                    Experiments to change the OSH are also only in ordinary units.

                    So why create a structure under the loud name "Experimental Force Group"? Is that in order to create additional warm places for all sorts of bosses and bosses.
                  6. skeptic
                    skeptic 3 May 2013 23: 26
                    +3
                    Quote: Spade
                    I know. It's about imitating work.

                    The training methodology can be worked out only on ordinary units.
                    The methodology of combat use is also only on conventional units.
                    Experiments to change the OSH are also only in ordinary units.


                    And then I think, what for the sake of the centers of combat use, etc. testers, instructors. It turns out that they are engaged in imitation of tests, but it is necessary to give the experimental equipment immediately to the combat units. Like if they survive, they will learn. By the "scientific" poke method. So?
                    Sorry, but before it seemed to me that true professionals should first work out how to master new things in military affairs with less loss of time, energy, and life, and only then engage combat units.

                    Maybe I'm wrong?
                  7. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 3 May 2013 23: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: skeptic
                    And I think, what for the sake of the operation of combat centers, etc. testers, instructors.

                    Ground Forces do not have a combat center

                    Quote: skeptic
                    Like if they survive, they will learn. By the "scientific" poke method.

                    Not. Specialists in the organization of combat training, breeders, representatives of design bureaus come.

                    Quote: skeptic
                    Sorry, but before it seemed to me that true professionals should first work out how to master new things in military affairs with less loss of time, energy, and life, and only then engage combat units.

                    What's the point? What can the experience of "true professionals" in mastering new technology give in terms of training personnel in the troops?
                    You will not work out the teaching method for reading first-graders in XNUMXth graders.
                  8. bask
                    bask 3 May 2013 23: 50
                    -1
                    Quote: Spade
                    What's the point? What the experience of "true professionals" in mastering new technology can give in terms of

                    I would say simpler. Some kind of madhouse-theater of the absurd. Everyone starts to put-do on its head. And this is accompanied by TOTAL LIE IN THE THEFT.
                    I no longer believe that we will ever have a modern army and modern facilities. Under the current regime, this is simply not possible ...
                  9. CTEPX
                    CTEPX 4 May 2013 16: 11
                    0
                    The fact that you are in the methodology is a complete ram, this is a no brainer)).
                    And a lot of you on this resource - Medvedev eagles?
  • воронов
    воронов 4 May 2013 02: 56
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    In order to provide troops with modern weapons.

    Our defense industry technical documentation for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is already in Aglitz, or what other European, and prints in Chinese? belay
  • воронов
    воронов 4 May 2013 02: 50
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Why can not we develop a new methodology for teaching foreign languages ​​in schools with their in-depth study?

    Particularly foreign languages ​​will be useful to tank drivers, BMP gunners, fighters and squadrons of SMEs, in their practical activities laughing
  • Hauptmann emil
    Hauptmann emil 3 May 2013 12: 54
    0
    100500
    I totally agree.
    Some ministers do not seem to take their "asses" out of the cabinet at all. Only to the house and back.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 3 May 2013 19: 39
      +2
      Good military reform! In full swing!
      At first, military academies and schools were dispersed (and they used to do this, except for training officers and cadets), and now they are restoring it under the guise of some mysterious EGV. Yes, and military experts thrown into the street on the OShM, for this they are attracted. Smart people do not step on a mop twice - old specialists will not go there. That's for sure. Not that character. And new ones - one, two and the calculation is completed.
      And was it not the Ministry of Defense that informed us through the lips of Taburetkin (with the full support of the president) that the art of war was outdated and it was necessary to fight in a new way ??? How the Americans are fighting ... In a new way, they fired most of the analysts of the General Staff of the Armed Forces, emasculated the GRU, reduced staff operatives at all levels, destroyed the system of military universities. And you can't put a "milkmaid" in their place. Even if you pay her a million, she will not develop new methods of warfare!

      In addition, the isolation of military science from the troops is a big mistake. We have already gone through this.

      Well, if it will be a good judge of EGV! And if - as always? Another, but only now military, Skolkovo.
      It seems that the news is positive and the article "plus", but as in the film - "I am tormented by vague doubts."
  • tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 3 May 2013 07: 20
    +5
    So many positive ideas, even unusual, are probably still unsatisfying from Sirdyukov.
  • Asgard
    Asgard 3 May 2013 07: 29
    +8
    Something fed up with these experiments ... conducted by unknown and unknown for what ???
    There was a field headquarters structure and a bunch of military institutes, and then no one bought "menstrual", it is not known why)))
    In general, back to the Soviet model, it was optimal, especially since there are such trends)))
    and you can’t get away from it (if you want to win)))
    1. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 3 May 2013 08: 38
      -6
      Quote: Asgard
      In general, back to the Soviet model, it was optimal, especially since there are such trends))) and you can’t get away from it (if you want to win)))


      And then to flintlock muskets on a smoke ... yeah, trends mean ...
      1. Joker
        Joker 3 May 2013 09: 24
        19
        And then to flintlock muskets on a smoke ... yeah, trends mean ...

        And where are the muskets? He said everything correctly, we must return to the Soviet experience. And if you think that you thought out of date in the USSR, then you should take note of such a fact, Russian, not Americans, invented secentric wars, they just stole the idea from us and put it into practice. Invisibility planes were invented by us, even then all of ours were invented in advance. And what experience does the USA have? In World War II, we destroyed enemy equipment and enemy soldiers more than all allies combined, the experience with amers was zero. Iraq, we defeated the Germans faster than they fought in Iraq, and then the Germans once in 10 Iraq were stronger, Libya? How much we won Georgia and how much they Libya. It is necessary to focus on the experience of the USSR everywhere, and not to look in the mouth of Americans. The only thing they won at the expense of it was only at the expense of aviation, their infantry was a big deal for us, if we deprive the United States of its advantage in aviation, we will defeat them.
        1. aksakal
          aksakal 3 May 2013 09: 39
          13
          Quote: Joker
          He said everything correctly, we must return to the Soviet experience

          - I would clarify - taking into account the Conscientious experience in the Armed Forces.
          Be sure to take into account, but not really, a direct copy of the Soviet army before entering Afghanistan. Afghanistan has shown that it is precisely this format of the Army that is not always suitable. To the credit of the conscientious military, they quickly adapted to completely different tactics of military operations in Afghanistan and successfully fought in the future. True, this Afghan experience was quickly forgotten and after only a few years stepped on the same rake in Grozny. What for?
          I believe that in the current circumstances it is necessary, as it were, two types of army. The first type is against the traditional strong opponent who will wage war in the traditional way. Against them we need the SU-35S, SU-34, T-90 and new models, which are now in development, and numerous infantry.
          But also need a second army, which does not need the above aircraft and tanks. They need more well-armored subsonic attack aircraft and the same well-armored attack and transport helicopters, many reconnaissance UAVs, tanks adapted for urban battles (for example, instead of a 125 mm gun, a twin quick-firing gun of either 57 mm or 76 mm with large elevation angles and shells with the possibility of undermining in the air or undermining immediately behind the wall after breaking through) and mountain tanks. Also, this army must have a very good reconnaissance and is full of precision weapons for precision strikes. Instead of numerous infantry, not so numerous special forces.
          These are two completely different armies, but the universal one somehow doesn’t work out very well. So you just need to have two armies. IMHO,
          1. Whitley
            Whitley 3 May 2013 10: 10
            -2
            Quote: aksakal
            So you just need to have two armies

            In fact, there are two of them. Have you forgotten about explosives?
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 3 May 2013 10: 56
              +8
              Quote: Whitley
              In fact, there are two of them. Have you forgotten about explosives?
              - they are only partly right. Firstly, the internal troops are practically indistinguishable from the "standard" army in composition, format and armaments; an attack simply with elements of mimicry "under the internal revolt". Therefore, the question here is - how appropriate is the use of explosive forces, if in fact it is a foreign invasion? You can also go weaving - to reorganize the troops of the explosives like this:
              Quote: aksakal
              They need more well-armored subsonic attack aircraft and the same well-armored attack and transport helicopters, many reconnaissance UAVs, tanks adapted for urban battles (for example, instead of a 125 mm gun, a twin quick-firing gun of either 57 mm or 76 mm with large elevation angles and shells with the possibility of undermining in the air or undermining immediately after the wall after breaking through) and mountain tanks. Also, this army must have a very good reconnaissance and is full of precision weapons for precision strikes. Instead of numerous infantry, not so numerous special forces.
              - and somehow rename this army. It is possible not to rename, simply on a legal basis to expand the legality of the use of explosive forces in cases similar to the Syrian invasion. The main thing is that these troops would be maximally "sharpened" to fight such a "network-centric", completely decentralized and lightly armed enemy, adapted to fight in densely populated areas or inaccessible terrain.
              For now, I can say that the IDF is the most suitable example of an army of this type, although, in my amateurish opinion, the IDF is unjustifiably using high-tech things. For example, the same "Tomuz" is essentially a UAV, only reactive and disposable. The equipment on it is like on a UAV - remote control, real-time camera vision and so on. It is possible to find solutions that are cheaper and approximately the same in efficiency, for example, to develop a UAV with a dive capability and armed with NURS. He was at a high altitude, as a suitable target appeared - he dived to a distance of several hundred meters - and at this distance the NURSs differ little in accuracy from high-precision missiles, only much cheaper - they hit and then back up. If at that moment they managed to shoot down - well, to hell with him, no more expensive "Tamuz" for love. IMHO,
            2. skeptic
              skeptic 3 May 2013 12: 01
              +2
              Quote: Whitley
              In fact, there are two of them. Have you forgotten about explosives?


              Yes, at least three or four. In any case, the universal army is fighting worse than specially sharpened. And it is better now to train highly specialized troops for certain tasks than how they prepared mountain units during the Second World War, after heavy losses among ordinary rifle companies. Aksakal thank you very much for the comments. I agree +++
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 3 May 2013 12: 09
      -1
      And the spies ?! Where to hire your favorite spies? It is difficult to get into military institutes, you need to introduce them from school, or process a military scientist ... and the system of counteracting processing has long been brought to perfection.
      Just swarms, hordes will flock to the newly created structure ... all the more so as they are being pressed more and more, in NPOs it has already begun to bake assholes ...
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 3 May 2013 20: 56
        +1
        Do not understand, it seems laughing People, so spies can be simply and cheaply issued! Straight edge and with iron proof. And then they impudently set up analytical centers in our cities (I’m not joking. I go by such a train every day many times. The real US analytical center is called) and sit there, whipping coffee. Come to him - don’t hush, I’m an analyst! People come to me - they are on a salary! Assistants to the analyst ... Actually, at least stand still, but we have such a reality.
        1. aviamed90
          aviamed90 3 May 2013 23: 24
          0
          I propose to discuss with the presidents (not to be confused with residents) in the CIS countries!
  • Rustiger
    Rustiger 3 May 2013 07: 34
    +6
    We have every minister, then some kind of "inventor". How many of them have already been, such "mass entertainers" in all industries. And each "left a mark on history", usually not entirely clean. But not one of them voiced the words "that it would not be bad to return somewhere directly to the experience of the USSR", all in some roundabout way give birth to ideas. Here and "a return to a single school uniform", and "the renewal of Zarnits and the TRP". Even about the resumption of children's / youth organizations like Pioneria, only without ideological coloring, they are already talking more and more often.
    So these guys also came up with something. If you "dig" can and there is a similar existence in the Soviet Union? I do not know? But we'll see. ... ... And what else remains to be done, we hang out on the edge. I wish I could only "warn" the "rationalizers" what if something happened. ... ... am
    And so God forbid, God forbid. . . yes
    1. lewerlin53rus
      lewerlin53rus 3 May 2013 07: 48
      +2
      Quote: Rustiger
      But none of them voiced the words "that it would not be bad to return somewhere directly to the experience of the USSR"

      Yes, they just don’t want to tease the dogs, i.e. mosek, who immediately begin to bark in all their filthy throats. And not because they are afraid, but because, well, there are ... Well, if only the work was done useful. And statements ... You can do without them.
      1. Rustiger
        Rustiger 3 May 2013 08: 25
        +3
        Quote: lewerlin53rus
        do not want to tease dogs, i.e. mosek, who immediately begin to bark in all their filthy throats.

        Well, then they are "pugs", and you can react to them in different ways. K.g. "we also need a pike so that the crucian does not doze" or, more precisely, "ruffs". ... ...
        I'm talking about the RESPONSIBILITY of "statesmen" for their actions. Any - criminal, material. To firmly "scratch the pumpkins" before starting to implement "notions". And it turns out that the money is spent, the time is irrevocably gone, another "creative" takes over the post, who wants to "fix everything after the predecessor," and "bastard, but it was so wet - start over...."
        And if they knew that for an unsuccessful "experiment" it is possible to "go around the world with a bag" with the whole family or the head of the family leaves for a long time to the regions "where it is cold in a coat even in summer", and the wife is left to "wait for the experimenter" in a panel three-ruble note in Butovo with an old "ten" and a loan for a refrigerator. ... ... ... ...
        By the way, why never and never indicate the advisers with whose participation such ideas are born. They are, I am sure. Various aspects should be considered, possible risks calculated, etc.
        1. skeptic
          skeptic 3 May 2013 14: 54
          +1
          Quote: Rustiger
          I'm talking about the RESPONSIBILITY of "statesmen" for their actions. Any - criminal, material. To firmly "scratch the pumpkins" before starting to implement "notions". And it turns out that the money is spent, the time is irrevocably gone, another "creative" takes over the post, who wants to "fix everything after the predecessor," and "bastard, but it was so wet - start over...."


          THIS IS IT FOR THIS the experimental parts were conceived to minimize possible errors. At the same time, several different concepts can be worked out and simultaneously compared, without prejudice to all Armed Forces.
    2. Nick
      Nick 3 May 2013 13: 08
      0
      Quote: Rustiger
      us, every minister, is some kind of "inventor". How many of them have already been, such "mass entertainers" in all industries. And each "left a mark on history", usually not entirely clean.

      It’s not necessary to smear everyone with one world ... Ministers have been different ...
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 3 May 2013 23: 28
        +1
        It's true.
        Remember Sokolov, Grechko, Zhukov, Radionov.
        1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
          NOBODY EXCEPT US 3 May 2013 23: 53
          0
          Dmitry Fedorovich forgot ...
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 3 May 2013 07: 37
    +3
    Quote: tronin.maxim
    So many good ideas.


    Well, if everything goes as D. Rogozin promised earlier, then it is very encouraging:

    25.02.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX ITAR-TASS
    The first breakthrough technologies to be created by the Advanced Research Foundation will appear by the end of this year. This was announced by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin in the Moscow Museum of Technology at a festive event dedicated to Defender of the Fatherland Day.

    "I think that by the end of this year we will have a couple of new ideas that will provide breakthrough solutions for our military science"- Rogozin said. According to him, it will take several months for organizational procedures before the foundation starts its work." Then we will pick up unique inventions, including in student audiences, create flexible laboratories that will exist 5-7 years, not more, "said Dmitry Rogozin.
    http://vpk.name/news/84982_dmitrii_rogozin_pervyie_proryivnyie_voennyie_tehnolog

    ii_fonda_perspektivnyih_issledovanii_poyavyatsya_k_koncu_2013_goda.html
    1. Genur
      Genur 3 May 2013 12: 38
      +2
      Hope dies last. I really want to believe in the restoration of Military Science !!!
    2. SergBrNord
      SergBrNord 3 May 2013 19: 39
      +1
      The next pathos speech about anything. As a result, as always, there will be only holes in the budget. Talk less, work more.

      PS
      In a way, this statement reminds me of the slogans of Nanatolia.
  • vjatsergey
    vjatsergey 3 May 2013 07: 47
    +2
    Shoigu conducts work correctly, only if he conducts it too correctly, he could not let him finish it - that would not be desirable. I would like to be given more work.
  • Apollo
    Apollo 3 May 2013 08: 08
    10
    The very title and content of the article says a lot.

    1.innovations that will be introduced in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, put on a scientific footing.
    2.valitarianism of the former leadership, is rooted out in the bud.
    3. Combat units are freed from functions unusual for her.
    4. Began to listen to the opinions of experts.
    5. Negative Lessons Learned from the Previous MO Leadership.
    6. Essentially EGV, the practice attached to the theory of military art and military science will serve as a kind of citadel.
    7.sam an approach to VO reforms, I admire and respect.
    1. Rustiger
      Rustiger 3 May 2013 08: 41
      +3
      Quote: Apollon
      7. The very approach to the reforms of HE, makes me admire and respect.

      Only a complete and Russian hater can NOT AGREE with this, especially with the first six points. But. . .
      Agree, for a quarter of a century, headlines like "Shoigu and Rogozin have conceived an experiment" already introduces a state of some distrust.
      And we were accustomed by Gaidars, Kiriyenko, Chubais, Zurabovs, Furses, hermits, Lebanons, etc.
      I am not inclined to fall into extremes, like constant whining or rabid cheers-patriotism, but I would like constructive criticism and comprehensive discussion with the involvement of specialists. With the sounding of the names of these, and not only the supreme "heralds" like Rogozin and Shoigu.
      Maybe pilot projects are needed, but without undue delay.
      No worse than REDUCE. . .
      1. skeptic
        skeptic 3 May 2013 15: 11
        0
        Quote: Rustiger
        I would like constructive criticism and a comprehensive discussion involving specialists. With voicing the names of these,


        Shoigu, Rogozin - public leaders, ex officio. The specifics of military affairs is determined by other criteria. The less you know the better you sleep. A feature of all special services is the neutralization of the most significant figures of a potential enemy. Let them do better in safety than they appear in sections of victims of the criminal chronicle, like many scientists, over the past two decades.

        And for public discussion, you can use, respected retirees, enjoying all-Russian authority.
    2. bask
      bask 3 May 2013 09: 06
      +4
      Quote: Apollon

      1.innovations that will be introduced in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, put on a scientific footing.

      I welcome Apolon, But somehow it is alarming that every new minister of the MoD begins his reform in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. There is no continuity of the chosen course.
      In Soviet times, the ministers of the Defense Ministry continued a policy that did not radically differ from their predecessor. In the Armed Forces .Rf. need an evolutionary path of development, without experimentation.
      It would be better if they decided with Rogozin the question of supplying modern armored vehicles, BMD4M, BMP-3F, self-propelled guns, Vienna, T-90MS, Ka to the troops
    3. vilenich
      vilenich 3 May 2013 09: 30
      +4
      Quote: Apollon
      The very title and content of the article says a lot.

      And the points are correct, but doubts still gnaw.
      The article states:
      in the Armed Forces will be created an experimental group of troops (forces) - EGV. Representatives of the defense industry and military science will be involved in it together with military experts, including those in stock and staffed training and test centers.

      Those. as can be understood, according to Gareev, this will be "a special structure of the Ministry of Defense, which will not be burdened with any other tasks, except for experimental research functions."
      The fundamental difference between the EGW and previous research systems is that, according to the authors, in the process of developing new types of weapons "combat units will be left alone." And with the participation of the military-industrial complex and the Ministry of Defense, a structure will be created, “which would be able to run through mock-ups and introduce finished products into the troops.”

      So it turns out that another academic structure will be created in the Armed Forces (of a rather unclear composition and mission too), not directly related to combat units, but which will run around mock-ups and finished products and again be introduced into the troops, give recommendations for improvement staff structure, etc.
      An option, of course with a wide scope, but something really painful for another large amount of cut budget money seems.
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 3 May 2013 20: 18
        0
        What are you like?
        Quote: vilenich
        another academic structure will be created in the Armed Forces

        Yes, at least one will be created! How much can you break apart?
        1. vilenich
          vilenich 4 May 2013 07: 38
          +1
          Quote: ctepx
          Yes, at least one will be created! How much can you break apart?

          So the structure is clearly far-fetched, another sawmill for cutting budget money!
          I personally, only the development of fruitful cooperation between the defense industry complex and the Moscow Region, but not in such an expensive way!
          Loved the comment:
          Quote: Understudy
          ... in the process of developing new types of weapons "warheads will be left alone." Experimenters on their own and in their own juice? Skolkovo-2? And everyone in the Moscow region? It will be utter crap, if all this will be experienced by some unknown "elite" and other "secular lionesses" with self-proclaimed "specialists" such as Korotchenko.
    4. Farik
      Farik 3 May 2013 12: 24
      +3
      Quote: Apollon
      innovations that will be introduced in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are put on a scientific footing.

      Is it not the case that they want to implement another "Horns and Hooves" for cleaning up the budget dough, like "Rusnano" and "Skolkovo"?
  • shurup
    shurup 3 May 2013 08: 31
    +6
    To start and test the EGV in test mode, I propose to develop a military bike. This is cheaper than experimenting with ICBMs.
    Years, I think, enough? In case of failure and not accepting the model for service - EGV to abolish.
    If someone thinks that they don’t use bicycles in the army, then he is mistaken.
  • treskoed
    treskoed 3 May 2013 08: 44
    +1
    The idea, of course, is good, but it will not work out in practice - as always!
  • individual
    individual 3 May 2013 08: 56
    +1
    Shoigu and Rogozin are popular politicians. Flag in their hands in breakthrough pilot projects.
    1. soaring
      soaring 3 May 2013 14: 11
      +3
      Politicians and military specialists, somehow it does not quite agree ... Maybe something to do, than "play" in such games !?
  • mojohed
    mojohed 3 May 2013 08: 59
    +1
    In my opinion, a similar article was already discussed here. Nevertheless, if the plan is implemented, it will give an impetus to the development of weapons and military equipment.
  • BARKAS
    BARKAS 3 May 2013 09: 24
    +1
    The word "Experiment" alone makes the Russians shudder whoever utters it, Shoigu and Rogozin today have every opportunity to end this tradition, I do not know how, but I believe in them.
  • Metlik
    Metlik 3 May 2013 09: 33
    +3
    Testing techniques for new weapons are needed, as close as possible to a real battle. Americans have the opportunity to test new weapons in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. We do not have such an opportunity.
    I was surprised by the phrase "Combat units will be left alone." What are these warheads that are not able to master and test new technology? Do we need such combat units?
    Could it be better to create a training and combat center for ground forces?
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 3 May 2013 19: 48
      +1
      I fully agree with Metlik.
    2. CTEPX
      CTEPX 3 May 2013 20: 29
      0
      Quote: Metlik
      Could it be better to create a training and combat center for ground forces?

      No, guys ... The path is absolutely correct and necessary. We have a lot of good practices. The question is their speedy certification and practical break-in for combat use)).
      As for training centers, one does not interfere with the other.
      Good luck to the commanders!
  • APASUS
    APASUS 3 May 2013 09: 44
    +1
    I’m only FOR !!! ...... If only they would not play too much in creating new structures! After all, where an official appears, even if in military uniform, there’s a mess everywhere!
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 3 May 2013 10: 09
    0
    So they reached the amusing troops. What's next?
    1. shinobi
      shinobi 3 May 2013 10: 47
      +1
      Not funny. With amusing troops, the Russian army went.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 3 May 2013 11: 36
        +1
        Quote: shinobi
        With amusing troops, the Russian army went.

        And who were the archers, can you tell me?

        Quote: shinobi
        Not funny

        Very funny. If you recall the story.
  • Canep
    Canep 3 May 2013 10: 20
    +2
    Again, the brinnomord appeared wearing glasses, hiding his eyes.
    1. Whitley
      Whitley 3 May 2013 10: 23
      -4
      So the sun is on the street!
  • shinobi
    shinobi 3 May 2013 10: 45
    0
    God help! The main thing is that they do not engage in verbiage, do things and steal modestly.
  • dmi32167
    dmi32167 3 May 2013 10: 56
    0
    Quote: Spade
    So they reached the amusing troops. What's next?

    funny troops is cool! the most combat-ready units of the Petrine army! there would be more such parts in our time!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 3 May 2013 11: 42
      +2
      Quote: dmi32167
      funny troops is cool! the most combat-ready units of the Petrine army! there would be more such parts in our time!

      And with what are supposedly incompetent what to do? As last time?

      Archery Execution Morning
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 3 May 2013 20: 36
        0
        Quote: Spade
        And with what are supposedly incompetent what to do? As last time?

        And do not hope, dear!
        Better fight with enemies!
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 3 May 2013 20: 44
          0
          Well, where are you going to put all kinds of unworkable and unnecessary from some 58th Army?
          1. CTEPX
            CTEPX 3 May 2013 20: 54
            0
            How do you deftly fry the 58th Army)).
            And regardless of your provocation ... to train, train in this way, starting from a young age)). Something like this.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 3 May 2013 11: 12
    +2
    The main thing is that it doesn’t work like in a fable:
    -And you friends don’t sit down and you are not good at musicians.
  • SITH
    SITH 3 May 2013 12: 18
    +4
    All this somehow raises doubts, but is it necessary to create it? What is bad is that the soldiers in the linear units are testing new weapon designs, they only go to the army to shoot. Because the guys also want to see something new, feel, test, it’s interesting. But what needs to be done is not to drive the billion into the Aurora cruiser, but to invest it in the development of the Yak-44, which no one recalls.
  • krpmlws
    krpmlws 3 May 2013 12: 56
    +1
    Quote: SITH
    All this somehow raises doubts, but is it necessary to create it? What is bad is that the soldiers in the linear units are testing new weapon designs, they only go to the army to shoot. Because the guys also want to see something new, feel, test, it’s interesting. But what needs to be done is not to drive the billion into the Aurora cruiser, but to invest it in the development of the Yak-44, which no one recalls.

    Need a plane, no doubt, but do not touch Aurora.
    1. Blackky
      Blackky 3 May 2013 15: 00
      0
      A plane is needed (as well as an aircraft carrier to it, drag-and-drop, because it will not take off from a springboard, thrust-weight ratio is not the same), and the Aurora is a shame on the Russian fleet.
  • Pelican
    Pelican 3 May 2013 14: 25
    +1
    You need to start with building a sane defense doctrine! Which way are we going to experiment?
  • Tatarus
    Tatarus 3 May 2013 15: 04
    0
    They simply formally create an organized group of experimental subjects. And rightly so. All before our eyes ONCE. In case of problems, the solution is more efficient and faster than TWO. In the case of any jambs (God forbid of course) the victims and destructions are less than THREE. In my opinion everything is good.
  • Bww
    Bww 3 May 2013 15: 38
    +1
    If I understand correctly, the initiatives will be investigated in battle, and only then surrendered to the army.
    The idea is extremely competent.
    Good luck to them.
    B ..., and then, the former, they wanted to change all the chairs in military clubs.
  • taseka
    taseka 3 May 2013 15: 45
    +3
    "" Combat units will be left alone. " - that's bad enough that the people who will use this weapon are "left alone", and those who will use this weapon only on the computer, in warm offices, will decide what is needed at the "front"
    1. crambol
      crambol 3 May 2013 16: 43
      0
      Dear, it seems to me that you are a little mistaken. It is about creating units that PRACTICE will have to check for new items (weapons, tactics, etc.) with the help of sufficient military units. Those. first testing will be, as they say, on mice. The military units participating in the relevant experiments should be equipped at the highest level so that no high-quality flaws could affect the course of the experiments. And there, the results of the research should show, accept the new product, remake, delete. That is my opinion. It seems to me that with a skillful approach, the results will be excellent.
      1. crambol
        crambol 3 May 2013 20: 30
        0
        I consider the creation of the Experimental Group of Forces timely and correct! And the downsides come from those who do not like the strengthening of Russia, the strengthening of the Russian army. Let cons remain on their conscience!
        1. aviamed90
          aviamed90 3 May 2013 22: 26
          +1
          You are very categorical.
  • understudy
    understudy 3 May 2013 16: 55
    +2
    ... in the process of developing new types of weapons "combat units will be left alone."
    ___________________________________
    How's that ??? Experimenters on their own and in their own juice? Skolkovo-2? And everyone in the Moscow region? It will be utter crap, if all this will be experienced by some unknown "elite" and other "secular lionesses" with self-proclaimed "specialists" such as Korotchenko.
  • Patush
    Patush 3 May 2013 17: 13
    +1
    An interesting approach for some commentators:
    Nothing is being done - it has cured the polymers!
    There is some movement, business - drank dough!
    They do not know other algorithms. And they themselves do not know how and do not want, just howl.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 3 May 2013 17: 35
      +3
      Prefer unreasonable ryapatriotism and hatred?
      Insist on the presumption of the correctness of all decisions of the authorities?
      Do you think for the best imitation of work instead of real rearmament of the army with new models?
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 3 May 2013 20: 48
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        Do you think for the best imitation of work instead of real rearmament of the army with new models?

        And this is all based on the news about the "Metis-M1", which has been ready for a long time, but did not get into the troops? Ragozin solved this problem and, moreover, proposed to solve it systematically in the future)). What is the problem? What has been done wrong?
        Or do you need to close the military educational and scientific institutions in batches as before?
        Ilm introduce the presumption of the righteousness of hamsters?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 3 May 2013 21: 29
          -1
          Offer your news. On the introduction of gosp. Rogozin in the army of new weapons.

          PS God willing, "Metis" will not get into the troops. I hope for the sanity of the Ministry of Defense officials
  • waisson
    waisson 3 May 2013 19: 27
    +1
    yes gentlemen, I read you and realized that there is a battle of titans, I’m on the side so I will express some of my thoughts and you will correct. They will create an EHV who will include representatives of the factories in this group so each representative of the plant will drag a money blanket over myself, I think they have nothing to do there to submit a sample of equipment to the tender, the military should determine the degree of its use and the need for the quantity of supplies to the troops. and this is how we create the next step in the bureaucracy of laboring our interests
  • understudy
    understudy 3 May 2013 19: 32
    0
    Quote: PatRush
    Nothing is being done - it’s cured the polymers! There is some kind of movement, business - I drank the dough!


    ___________________________
    And sho for the "polymers" who, about ... technelogy? Personally, I "heard" about the rubber that China is still supplying to us for submarines, for its own production of high-quality "galoshes" pro-salipoli ... amers ... What are you talking about, uryakalki?
  • Vtel
    Vtel 3 May 2013 19: 37
    0
    Representatives of the defense industry and military science will be involved in it together with military experts, including those in stock and staffed training and test centers.

    As always, the idea is not bad, if only it does not turn into another Oskolkovo or Super-NANO, where the people's money will flow and the production cycle will spin - money-offshore-money-bureaucrats-London-request for extradition.
  • 1goose3
    1goose3 3 May 2013 21: 55
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    So, gentlemen, minusers, here's a reinforced concrete fact:


    What fact? In addition to saliva and snot facts I do not see. Justify your words, except age, regarding Metis M. Give a comparative analysis of today's Metis-M with analogues and tell me what it loses. I do not think that you are capable of it. These kind of blessed oohs usually put trips to really good deeds. negative
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 3 May 2013 22: 00
      -1
      I chewed it below for various experts on patriotism.
  • 1goose3
    1goose3 3 May 2013 22: 44
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    I chewed it below for various experts on patriotism.


    Love me! Not chewing. We would have to learn to speak specifically, to answer questions that he himself raised, and not to drive from empty to empty. negative
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 3 May 2013 22: 54
      0
      Specifically? Yes please.

      "Metis-M1" complex of the second generation with low noise immunity and low missile speed. That, in general, does not provide sufficient security for the calculation. At the same time, third-generation complexes have been developed in the world, with greater accuracy and much less vulnerability. For example, Georgia has such, in the Baltic States, and the Poles produce them for themselves in series.

      Dear, do you understand something?
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 4 May 2013 16: 31
        0
        And that at "low rocket speed" many tanks dodged it?))
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 3 May 2013 23: 11
    +2
    It seems that fate-Shoigu and Rogozin finally found each other and this tandem promises to be harmonious and bring the army and navy out of decline. So, no matter how they scold Putin, and he collects the team like puzzles, not everyone has the patience for that.
    1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US 3 May 2013 23: 57
      +1
      Yes, Shoigu suggested the army put out fires with the Ministry of Emergencies, who would remind him that he is the Minister of Defense and not the Ministry of Emergencies, can’t break the habit ....
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 4 May 2013 11: 17
        -1
        And hands remember ...
  • kind
    kind 4 May 2013 05: 38
    0
    All the same, we must first determine the defense strategy and on this basis and calculate the necessary strength and strength of the armament. I consider the creation of a powerful, trained mobilization reserve with mandatory additional training and training of reservists to be an equally important task. To do this, create permanent training centers. In addition, it is necessary to revive military education, to reopen military schools in the most popular areas (aviation
    , fleet, artillery, etc.)
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 4 May 2013 11: 16
      0
      Good

      This is all right. I agree with you. But...
      What does it mean to "open military schools"? This is not a train station stall. It takes a lot of things! From teachers (who were fired) to facilities and buildings (which are sold). How are you going to fix this? It will take decades to do all this together and organize it.
      Of course, this must be dealt with, but first of all, it is necessary to preserve what remains after the Smerdyukovsky collapse. But who will do this? Who cares? Shoigu? To Putin? Not sure.
      Regarding the mobility reserve and mobility resource - have you heard about the reform of the military registration and enlistment offices? Go see what is left of them.
      We are now in a difficult situation: the old has been broken and it can no longer be restored, and the new has nothing to build from.
      1. kind
        kind 5 May 2013 19: 16
        0
        You can still recreate everything. There are still cadres aged 35-55 who are ready to share their experience. Not only that, these PEOPLE constantly monitor the situation in the world and predict their possible scenarios on various TVDs. It is still possible to recover. Would give an opportunity. We will do this. We do not care !!! Let's not be pessimists, we must do !!!
  • Kaetani
    Kaetani 4 May 2013 11: 32
    0
    Just FIVE !!!