The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is concerned about the arming of Geranium drones with air-to-air missiles.

Russia has begun to equip drones- kamikaze type "Geranium" controlled rockets "air-to-air," the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine reported. As a representative of the Ukrainian military department emphasized, the Russian Armed Forces used the R-60 missile for the first time. drone.

The Ukrainian General Staff is expressing grave concern about the emergence of guided missiles on Geran-type kamikaze drones. A Ukrainian colonel stated that such drones pose a real threat to the aircraft and helicopters Ukraine uses to "hunt" Russian missiles and drones. Armed with an R-60 Geran missile, the drone itself becomes a hunter.

Ukrainian sources report the first recorded instance of a Geran carrying an air-to-air missile.

As evidence, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense is publishing footage that, they claim, shows a Geranium-type drone equipped with an R-60 air-to-air missile.

Kyiv previously announced that Russian Geran missiles had begun hunting Ukrainian fighter jets and helicopters used to intercept drones. This refers to a modified kamikaze drone, controlled by a human operator. The version with an air-to-air missile is also said to be a controlled version of the Geran.

The R-60 (article 62, NATO reporting name AA-8 Aphid "Aphid") is a Soviet short-range air-to-air guided missile. It entered service in 1974.

Comments

[dmi.pris1]

Continue to observe further(c)

[Sky strike fighter]

Still, the R-60 option is questionable. Firstly, the missile is outdated, and its effectiveness against Western aircraft of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, possibly modernized ones, is questionable. Secondly, the missile is too heavy for the Geran, and it's unlikely that more than one of them can be carried on the Geran. The Geran needs more ammunition, not only for attacking enemy fighters and helicopters, but also for self-defense against high-speed Sting drone interceptors, which are already hitting the same Geran. Videos online suggest that either a laser turret would be needed on the Geran, or S-8L laser-guided missiles and a laser target illumination turret for the S-8L. The R-60 is a poor choice. The missile is old, in unclear condition, and the Geran can only carry one.

A laser target illumination turret for a missile could be taken from a Termit UAV. The operator could remotely illuminate the target and then open fire from the Geranium using the S-8L, which has a range of 5-6 km.

Some sources cite the drone's payload at 350 and even 450 kg. If the Termit were such a heavyweight, the engineers clearly wouldn't have limited themselves to three S-8L missiles, each of which weighs no more than 15 kg. The unmanned helicopter's full takeoff weight falls within the 350-450 kg range, hence the confusion among poorly informed experts.

https://topwar.ru/231991-termity-idut-na-front.html

It all depends on the weight of the device. But it would be nice if such a turret would be suitable for Geranium's weight.

A turret-mounted combat laser system from PPSh Laboratory has begun field testing. It is most likely a fiber-optic laser with a power of 5 to 10 kW, capable of engaging small copters and Rubaka-type kamikaze drones at a range of 1,5 to 2 km. The turret is equipped with a thermal imaging sighting system with an LCD indicator displaying infrared images of heat-contrast targets. The laser module and optical system are shielded by a protective casing.

https://dzen.ru/a/aPJqIETragIExI01

Here's a work on Geranium. The Geranium-3 rocket, as seen through the lens of a Ukrainian Sting interceptor drone.

The enemy continues to demonstrate significant success in the development of anti-aircraft drones, which serve as a cheap and mass-produced alternative to more expensive and complex anti-aircraft missiles.

While jet drones were previously considered virtually invulnerable to interceptors due to their much greater speed, this speed-based protection is no longer a panacea.

"War Informant"

https://t.me/swodki/543536

[ALCA056000]

And here is the howl in the swamps performed by Sky Strike fighter: .... "...everything is actually bad, everything is not right and not right, they have something different, but we don’t know how and don’t have.... etc."

[Sky strike fighter]

Where did I say everything was bad? Do you only have two opinions: everything is good or everything is bad, or everything is white or everything is black? So, if someone doesn't praise, but allows themselves to doubt the effectiveness of a particular solution and offers another option, then they're immediately an enemy. In my opinion, truth is born in debate, not when there are two options: either always shouting hurray or always sprinkling ashes on your head. There's no need to go to extremes; a balanced, reasonable decision is needed.

[invisible_man]

Do you only have two assessments: when everything is good or everything is bad, or everything is white or everything is black?

Is this your first day on this site?

[hrych]

The Geranium is a powerful and affordable weapon. Obsolete and expired missiles are ideal. However, a new, uncommissioned air-to-air missile will cost more than the Geranium itself. The principle is that a decent number of Geraniums are deployed against a target, assuming five or six will be shot down and one will hit. Even decoys aren't particularly necessary, as the price difference isn't significant. Therefore, at the expense of warhead weight, the missile must be cheap and easily disposed of. And even if a decoy is deployed, Ukrainian pilots will be wary and avoid approaching the Geraniums.

[Peter1First]

Missiles are unlikely to help her—what does she have to detect an air defense helicopter, just a couple of cameras? The helicopter will just flank or rear and shoot her down without a care. She can only fire a missile forward, in the direction of travel, and in close combat, that's useless—the missile would have to turn 180 degrees to hit the helicopter in the rear hemisphere—an impossibility for the R-60, as the target won't be locked on. Better yet, dilute the geraniums with decoys like the Gerbera—it's more effective!

[hrych]

Of course, no helicopter can attach itself to the side. The missile's seeker automatically locks on to the target in the optical and infrared spectrum. There, the aircraft's engine jet provides guidance. Developing a missile launch algorithm after target acquisition is straightforward. Position the missile for attack in the forward hemisphere, or in the rear. Flip the missile over and go. The seeker has wide target acquisition angles, and the forward (or rear) hemisphere is well-aimed at the target "almost from the side." Before this "side," the enemy aircraft must pass from the forward (or rear) hemisphere; the Geranium isn't stationary. If the Geranium is controlled by an operator via a repeater, including a satellite, things are even simpler. That's what "fire-and-forget" missiles are for: they automatically lock on to the target. In a fighter, the indicator for this missile starts to blink when its homing head has locked onto a target and the pilot only gives the command to launch, but he, of course, monitors the situation with his radar and radar, which the Geranium does not have, but, I repeat, creating an algorithm for automatic launch when the homing head locks onto a target is a piece of cake.

[Peter1First]

Your reasoning is unconvincing. Full use of SAMs is only possible from a fighter equipped with radar and other equipment, and it requires a distance to the target that allows the missile to lock on and have room to maneuver. When controlling a geranium using a camera in a line-of-sight (i.e., close combat), the SAM has neither the time to lock on nor the room to maneuver, but it has a high probability of locking on to a nearby flying geranium...

[hrych]

Don't confuse the infrared exhaust of a piston or moped engine with the jet blast of an attack helicopter, fighter, or ground-attack aircraft. It's most likely an automatic algorithm for triggering the missile's seeker after target acquisition, not operator control. Gerani missiles fly using GLONASS, and this system is activated over enemy territory. We know of multiple, credible cases of Ukrainian pilots being killed while hunting Gerani missiles; perhaps this is how they fell into the trap. And this isn't a SAM, but an air-to-air missile. SAMs are surface-to-air missiles. Even the Igla has guidance issues, but the R-60 is ideal for this purpose.

[Peter1First]

Since when did helicopters get jet engines? Besides, they've repeatedly shown a helicopter calmly and slowly flying in the rear hemisphere of a geranium, pecking at it with a machine gun. To shoot it down, either the geranium would need to make a 180-degree turn toward the helicopter, or its R-60 would need to fly in the direction opposite the helicopter's position, make a 180-degree turn, and lock on to the helicopter with its seeker. The missile is mounted on the geranium, as it should be, head-first, so the missile would slide backward—no one has thought of that yet! I won't even mention Ukrainian air defense aircraft—shooting them down is unrealistic; they see the geranium first, and most likely also from the rear hemisphere.

[hrych]

What's with arguing with other participants when an R-60 was discovered on the downed Geraniya? This isn't a matter for debate, but a documented fact. The engineers who used something like this are probably no dumber than you.

Quote from: Peter1First

No one has ever thought of a rocket going backwards!

If you haven't thought of it, it doesn't mean others haven't thought of it.
https://hi-tech.mail.ru/news/56885-kak-porazhayut-celi-rakety-obratnogo-starta/
As Vladimir Popov, a retired Air Force Major General and former head of the Federal Directorate for Aerospace Search and Rescue at the Ministry of Defense, told Gazeta.Ru, attempts to launch missiles from the rear hemisphere of an aircraft had been made before. "Missiles were installed in the rear of the aircraft, under the wing, tail-first. It appeared as if the aircraft was flying forward, but the missiles on the pods were already pointed backward. Thus, the launch was conducted into the rear hemisphere," Popov said.
Read here.
https://missilery.info/missile/r73
The R-73 RMD-2 can be used to organize anti-missile defense and allows for the implementation of a reverse launch mode to defend the rear hemisphere of the carrier...
This "reverse launch" technique was tested and proved to be effective, and the development of advanced Soviet fighters included the installation of an additional radar for search and target designation in the rear hemisphere.

[svarog77]

A typical song performed by him from a repetitive repertoire... what a beer guy

[ALCA056000]

Common Liberda Tsipso has dissipated, so our domestic whining experts are sweating for themselves and that guy

[Comrade Beria]

The R-60M weighs about 45 kg, so Geranium can carry a pair of them over a range of up to 1500 km.

[BAI]

Firstly, the missile is outdated.

This is both the first and the last.
The missile is from Soviet times, the hohols know it, and if it falls into their hands, it won't be a pity.
Moreover, there are probably large reserves that need to be put to good use. And here they will also be of use.

[Naum_2]

Both useful and obsolete. Old missiles are certainly not very effective in today's conditions, but the probability of destroying an enemy aircraft or helicopter is not zero, and the cost is practically negligible.

[Olegi1]

The missile is from Soviet times, the hohols know it, and if it falls into their hands, it won't be a pity.
Moreover, there are probably large reserves that need to be put to good use. And here they will also be of use.

+1. An obsolete, cheap missile on a cheap drone is a very good idea! Helicopters will be afraid to fly close – fewer Geraniums with a "real" warhead will be lost. And there are probably plenty of R-60s in storage. A good way to recycle them.

And if the helicopter doesn't come to fruition, you can designate a ground target and direct Geranium and a missile at it. It's a waste of time. :)

[Owl]

It's very practical against the MI-8, with its 7,62mm six-barreled "Minigun" mounted in the door. They boasted about a video of them shooting down a "Geran" with a short burst, so let them get a "return strike."

[Sky strike fighter]

I'd like the Gerani's BC to be able to defend against not only the Mi-8, but also Sting drone interceptors and even fighter jets. I'll use my own quote to explain the idea.

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Quote from Vrotkompot

Why are you so upset about old missiles? What difference does it make how you dispose of the missiles? Geraniums have other missions, and they might destroy a helicopter along the way. And if you're lucky, even a plane.
Once the old stuff is gone, rest assured, they'll install something more interesting. But the Su-57s could also carry something interesting.

The S-8L could very well become an analogue of the proven AGR-20A/APKWS-II missile. So why not mount them on the Geranium in an interceptor configuration?

The Ukrainian Armed Forces have received a significant number of AGR-20A/APKWS-II tactical missiles as part of the L3Harris VAMPIRE (Vehicle-Agnostic Modular Palletized ISR Rocket Equipment) multipurpose missile systems. ... Recently, these missiles have increasingly found themselves in the niche of inexpensive and effective compact anti-aircraft missiles and short-range air-to-air guided missiles for intercepting kamikaze UAVs and subsonic cruise missiles. For example, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have repeatedly used Vampire systems against Ukrainian Geran-2 kamikaze UAVs and Kh-101 cruise missiles over the Odessa and Dnipropetrovsk regions. However, APKWS-II missiles, deployed on F-16C Block 50/52+ and F-15E Strike Eagle fighters, have demonstrated even more significant results in repelling massive IRGC and Ansar Allah kamikaze UAV strikes against Israel. At times, each F-15E is credited with intercepting more than 10 Iranian and Houthi UAVs.

Do we have similar counter-drone weapons? Certainly, we've had such a project for some time. We're talking about the S-8L 80mm guided rocket. This rocket is equipped with folding two-section aerodynamic fins, a compact semi-active laser homing head, and a laser fuse. The S-8L's effective range is approximately 6 km at a maximum flight speed of approximately 570 m/s. This is less than that of the APKWS-II launched from the F-15E, but it's quite sufficient for hunting drones. The S-8L's semi-active laser seeker can be illuminated by laser rangefinders and target designators on Ka-52M and Mi-28NM helicopters, as well as by optronic systems mounted on Termit-type drones. These systems can be used from B-8M1 containers installed on the Su-30SM and Su-35S, as well as on the Su-25SM3 attack aircraft.

https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2025/06/06/odin-f-15e-mozhet-perehvatit-do-50-bpla-est-li-u-vks-rossii-analogichnye-sredstva

[Olegi1]

I'd like the Gerani's BC to be able to defend against not only the Mi-8, but also Sting drone interceptors and even fighter jets. I'll quote myself to explain the idea.

Well, there is no need to make a CHEAP drone (what is its basic the idea is) a "Death Star" for a million dollars...

[rosomaha]

Is the S8L in production, so where should it be placed? Like they showed it at that exhibition... and then... silence.

[Sky strike fighter]

Demand creates supply.

The Kalashnikov Group of Companies presented the latest S-8L guided air-launched missile with a semi-active homing warhead at the Army-2021 International Military-Technical Forum. Specialists are completing the R&D project to develop it.

https://rg.ru/2021/08/23/novuiu-korrektiruemuiu-aviacionnuiu-raketu-s-8l-predstavili-na-armii.html

[rosomaha]

2021...and then there was 2022...then 2023...other priorities

[Peter1First]

They downvoted this guy, but he actually said everything on point! Yes, they've learned to intercept Geran missiles, even the Geran-3 jets—unpleasant, but true! Yes, the old R-60 missile is heavy and unlikely to help defend. It shouldn't just be a Geran, but a specialized one—with a 360-degree radar, a laser designator, and advanced optics—that's expensive! Another option is to use the Geran only as a launcher for an external target designator, but that would require an AWACS aircraft or at least a fighter in the background—difficult and dangerous. The third option is to simply fly the Geran at an altitude of 4...6 km to complicate the air defense mission. The fact that they can only fly high in the summer is a real problem; the basic model needs to be modified for this task, with special coatings, perhaps an engine upgrade—but it will ultimately pay off!

[Netl]

Quote from: Peter1First

Yes, Geraniums have learned to intercept

So the Geranium's specialty isn't that it's an uninterceptable wonder weapon like the Dagger. It's that it's a cheap, mass-produced weapon, and it's perfectly acceptable to have some of it intercepted. Even then, the cost of interception, even with high-speed drones, can be higher than the cost of a Geranium.

The point of deploying an old, cheap missile on Gerani isn't to shoot down a ton of enemy aircraft. It's that any Nazi pilot wouldn't be entirely confident that he could fly up to Gerani and shoot it down at close range with impunity. That at any moment, his target or its neighbor could fire back with a missile.

Overall, this will result in a higher percentage of Geraneks reaching their targets, but this percentage will never be equal to 100.

[January]

New business for old missiles. That's good, that's right...

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: ian

New business for old missiles. That's good, that's right...

What's right about this? A video recently surfaced online of a Ukrainian aircraft evading an air-to-air missile. Something tells me it's an R-60 air-to-air missile from the 70s, because you can't evade modern air-to-air missiles that way. Try evading a modern R-74M2 missile in a fighter jet; it's practically impossible, since it locks on to its target at a great distance, can maneuver under high G-forces, and has hypersonic speeds, if not hypersonic, then close to it. It's just that if you're going to mount something on the Geranium as a weapon, it should be worth the effort. I'm not advocating for the R-74M2 to be mounted on the Geranium; the missile is expensive, and it's unnecessary.
The R-60 weighs 43,5 kg (the R-60M version weighs 44 kg)—the launch weight of an R-60 air-to-air missile. However, installing a laser capable of engaging air targets from 1,5-2 km away, or at least a laser turret from a Termit UAV for laser-guided S-8L missiles, on the Geran interceptor variant is an option.

[ALCA056000]

"...And something tells me..." – that's the basis on which all this "blah blah blah" is based. Those who are installing these missiles are, of course, idiots. Why don't they come here to VO and learn some wisdom from the local experts? Where the armchair warriors would teach them how to do it, they're doing God knows what...

[Sky strike fighter]

The R-60 hasn't been produced since 1991, and I doubt they were suddenly modernized or even brought back into serviceable condition after they were taken from storage. The same old artillery ammunition purchased under Czech initiative was later generally reconditioned, with new propellant powder, to bring it back into serviceable condition.

[Vrotkompot]

Why are you so upset about old missiles? What difference does it make how you dispose of the missiles? Geraniums have other missions, and they might destroy a helicopter along the way. And if you're lucky, even a plane.
Once the old stuff is gone, rest assured, they'll install something more interesting. But the Su-57s could also carry something interesting.

[Sky strike fighter]

The question is the effectiveness of such missiles. Perhaps, instead of the R-60, a better option would be to mount some high-speed interceptor drones on a Geranium variant, so that the Geranium interceptor variant could be used effectively, usefully, and not for show? If we could come up with a way to create a similar interceptor drone to the supposedly "Ukrainian" Sting and mount it on a Geranium, it might be cheap, efficient, and, most importantly, effective. Or at least try mounting an S-8L.

[alexoff]

I prefer the idea of ​​hanging a trophy stinger. And firing two at a time. Or our own willows.
As for interceptor drones, I think it's difficult, since the distance to the geranium is large, and drones are still manually guided, unlike missiles.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The question is the effectiveness of such missiles. Perhaps, instead of the R-60, there's a better option: attach some high-speed interceptor drones to this modification of the Geranium, so that the Geranium interceptor variant can be used effectively, usefully, and not for show?

Do they exist right now? The R-60 definitely exists, but you're proposing to install something that doesn't exist, arguing that it will be better than what already exists.
P.S. What high-speed drone interceptor can intercept an aircraft better than the R-60?

[Sky strike fighter]

You're missing the point about the shelf life of the R-60 missiles. They exist, of course, but the last batch was produced back in 1991, when Gorbachev was still the head of the USSR.

[ALCA056000]

No, well, Sky Strike fighter is definitely an analyst, expert, and consultant all rolled into one: "...I doubt it...", "...Maybe it's better...", "...If I could think of something and create it...". "...then maybe it would work...", "...or at least try...", "...Isn't it really possible to do...", "...and figure out how..."

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote from Vrotkompot

Why are you so upset about old missiles? What difference does it make how you dispose of the missiles? Geraniums have other missions, and they might destroy a helicopter along the way. And if you're lucky, even a plane.
Once the old stuff is gone, rest assured, they'll install something more interesting. But the Su-57s could also carry something interesting.

The S-8L could very well become an analogue of the proven AGR-20A/APKWS-II missile. So why not mount them on the Geranium in an interceptor configuration?

The Ukrainian Armed Forces have received a significant number of AGR-20A/APKWS-II tactical missiles as part of the L3Harris VAMPIRE (Vehicle-Agnostic Modular Palletized ISR Rocket Equipment) multipurpose missile systems. ... Recently, these missiles have increasingly found themselves in the niche of inexpensive and effective compact anti-aircraft missiles and short-range air-to-air guided missiles for intercepting kamikaze UAVs and subsonic cruise missiles. For example, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have repeatedly used Vampire systems against Ukrainian Geran-2 kamikaze UAVs and Kh-101 cruise missiles over the Odessa and Dnipropetrovsk regions. However, APKWS-II missiles, deployed on F-16C Block 50/52+ and F-15E Strike Eagle fighters, have demonstrated even more significant results in repelling massive IRGC and Ansar Allah kamikaze UAV strikes against Israel. At times, each F-15E is credited with intercepting more than 10 Iranian and Houthi UAVs.

Do we have similar counter-drone weapons? Certainly, we've had such a project for some time. We're talking about the S-8L 80mm guided rocket. This rocket is equipped with folding two-section aerodynamic fins, a compact semi-active laser homing head, and a laser fuse. The S-8L's effective range is approximately 6 km at a maximum flight speed of approximately 570 m/s. This is less than that of the APKWS-II launched from the F-15E, but it's quite sufficient for hunting drones. The S-8L's semi-active laser seeker can be illuminated by laser rangefinders and target designators on Ka-52M and Mi-28NM helicopters, as well as by optronic systems mounted on Termit-type drones. These systems can be used from B-8M1 containers installed on the Su-30SM and Su-35S, as well as on the Su-25SM3 attack aircraft.

https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2025/06/06/odin-f-15e-mozhet-perehvatit-do-50-bpla-est-li-u-vks-rossii-analogichnye-sredstva

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Why not hang them on the Geranium in the interceptor modification?

Because Geranium is not an interceptor. And it needs an air-to-air missile just in case: if it encounters a Litak, great; if it misses, well, screw it. No one will be specifically chasing planes and helicopters on Geraniums.
Therefore, if they do add something more serious and more expensive to Geranium, it will be at the next stage of development.

[Montezuma]

Nikolai, there's been official word about the liberation of Volchansk. Long-awaited news; we've finally put the squeeze on this stubborn enemy!

MOSCOW, December 1. /TASS/. Russian Defense Minister Andrei Belousov congratulated the command and personnel of the units that participated in the liberation of Vovchansk in the Kharkiv region. This was reported by the military department.
"Russian Defense Minister Andrei Belousov congratulated the command and personnel of the 69th Guards Krasnoselskaya Order of Lenin, Red Banner Motor Rifle Division, the 72nd Motor Rifle Division, the 1009th Motor Rifle Regiment, and the 128th Motor Rifle Brigade on the liberation of the village of Volchansk in the Kharkiv region," the statement reads.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Montezuma

An official announcement about the liberation of Vovchansk has been released.

Yes, I saw it. It seems they've already gone further.

[Kerensky]

or at least a laser turret from a Termit UAV

Wouldn't it be too much for a disposable device?

[Sky strike fighter]

Why disposable? Isn't it possible to create a reusable modification of the Gerani, so that at least when it returns, it would slow down and could be caught with a strong net to prevent damage? UAVs already have friend-or-foe systems to prevent friendly forces from shooting them down, and UAVs often return on autopilot after completing their mission. So it's entirely feasible. The only question is about the engine's lifespan. How long will it last?

Russian drones will receive a "friend or foe" recognition system. The corresponding equipment has already been developed, tested, and is ready for serial production, Rostec's press service reported.

https://topwar.ru/231526-razrabotannaja-v-rossii-sistema-opoznavanija-svoj-chuzhoj-dlja-bpla-gotova-k-serijnomu-proizvodstvu.html

[Kerensky]

Is it really impossible to create a modification of Geranium that could be used repeatedly, so that at least when it returns, it would slow down and it could at least be caught with a strong net and not allowed to take damage?

I like the way you're thinking. We'll also need to consider an active phased array radar (AESA), a cockpit, and other minor details...

[Sky strike fighter]

Don't exaggerate. Install a more or less adequate engine on the Geranium and figure out how to safely land the Geranium in the rear after returning from a mission, and you'll have a reusable drone in interceptor modification, currently armed with S-8L missiles. Maybe they'll come up with something more interesting in terms of dangling missiles/interceptor drones. Friend-or-foe systems and autopilots have been used on drones for a long time. Program the autopilot with a return point, catch it there, at least with a net, and then use it again and again. The trend toward reusable drones is on, and that's the right thing to do. Resources must be conserved.

[Kerensky]

Install a more or less adequate engine on the Geranium and figure out how to safely land the Geranium in the rear after returning from a mission. And you've got yourself a reusable drone in interceptor form, currently armed with S-8L missiles, and maybe they'll come up with something more interesting. Friend-or-foe systems and autopilots on roads have been around for a long time. Set the autopilot to a point where the drone should return, catch it there, at least with a net, and then use it again and again.

Geranium has a price. It's a critical factor—it ensures widespread use. You want to increase the price by an order of magnitude, given the questionable effectiveness of the process.
After all, we are talking about a disposable drone for attacks on stationary objects.
P.S. Is the S-8L related to you?

[alexoff]

Making an unmanned fighter-saboteur is a good idea. In the case of geraniums, the price of a rocket is likely the same as the price of a drone, except that the USSR paid for the rocket and no one cares. It could fly 150 kilometers to pick up some ordinary geraniums and then return home. If it shoots down an enemy fighter, it will pay for itself and a thousand other geraniums, even if their price increases tenfold.
But it's better to attach a couple of willows—they're smart and ignore heat flares. The S-8Ls are better used against regular enemy drones over our lands, where expensive missiles won't do the trick. And they could be attached to any light helicopter confiscated from a corrupt official.
And by the way, you can then carefully attach mock-up missiles to regular geraniums, with gasoline inside for longer range and the warhead still in place. Let the bastards guess whether the geranium will fire or not.

[Kerensky]

Making an unmanned fighter-saboteur is a good idea.

A product with such functionality would cost as much as a fighter jet.

So that he would fly 150 kilometers for ordinary geraniums, and then return home. If an enemy fighter shoots down - will pay for itself and a thousand other geraniums even if they become 10 times more expensive.

What? This thing. Will it see an enemy fighter???

[Nastia makarova]

Why go back?!??! You're suggesting to hang so much stuff there that it would be cheaper to put in another 10 geraniums.

[Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov]

❝ As the Ukrainian colonel stated, Such drones are becoming a real threat for the airplanes and helicopters with which Ukraine arranges "hunt" on Russian missiles and drones ❞ —

- Hunting at "hunters" beats off...

[Dilettante grandfather]

The Ukrainian General Staff expresses very strong concern

Are they out of valerian? Take some drops and calm down. Otherwise, the paramedics will come and report it.

[Alex_12]

Geranium had even handled 16 before. If I remember correctly, it was the only one like that, when the missiles ran out. A very inventive and inquisitive mind, by Vietnam-era NATO standards. Decided to go dogfighting. Well, he shot it down. It exploded, of course, and fell in love with the initiator's debris.

[Vadim Zhivov]

The missile is old. I participated in the decommissioning of these missiles over 20 years ago. It's doubtful that Russia would use such old equipment in such a responsible position. But that's just my personal opinion.

[Irek]

Does the little hoholota still have any airplanes left?

[Nastia makarova]

Yes, there are some left, and the number is gradually increasing.

[Alexey G]

Geranium with a racket? Well, they're ours! They're so ours! So! It's nice to read!

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Alexey G

Geranium with a racket? Well, that's nice to read!

What are you talking about!? I've been proposing for a while now to equip Geraniums with air-to-air missiles (not the R-60, but the Igla-V) and small drones, including anti-radar ones! And how I got slammed for it! Hey, you hapless critics! Respond! I want to spit in your direction! P.S. Small, specialized interceptor missiles would be well-suited for strategic air defense systems! For example, one of the air-launched interceptor missiles being developed by NATO is one meter long and weighs only 10 kilos! Russia needs to develop similar interceptors! In the meantime... adapt the Igla-V!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

However, the question of the effectiveness of the guidance systems remains. A high-quality communication channel is required for the operator-controlled Geranium.

[Victor19]

Not bad, even very good.

[Ross xnumx]

The R-60 (article 62, NATO reporting name AA-8 Aphid "Aphid") is a Soviet short-range air-to-air guided missile. It entered service in 1974.

There are large reserves left over from the USSR - we can’t throw them away...
Wait, we'll soon start knocking down American and NATO drones worth tens of millions of dollars...

[Sky strike fighter]

It's just that the effectiveness of the R-60, which is already 50 years old, is questionable against modern fighters, but the question is not even about this, but about the service life of the R-60. Is it fit for use 30-40 years after its production? (The R-60 missile was produced from 1974 to 1991.) I doubt it.

Perhaps this was a reference to the service life of Soviet R-60 air-to-air guided missiles (NATO designation AA-8 Aphid). In 2021, it was reported that the missiles, which entered service in the first half of the 1970s, were considered unsuitable for current operational scenarios and were scheduled for decommissioning.

https://topwar.ru/189799-geroicheskie-rakety-neskolkih-vojn-v-italii-ocenili-spisanie-sovetskih-ur-r-60-i-h-25.html

These stupid bombs like the FAB can be used after being converted into UMPK, but air-to-air missiles are not dummies, but high-precision weapons, the homing head of the same R-60M needs to be cooled.

The basic model of the R-60 missile uses a Komar (OGS-60TI) homing head with an uncooled photoreceiver.

However, the R-60M modification is equipped with a Komar-M (OGS-75) seeker with a cooled photoreceiver. This allows the R-60M missile to be used in close-range maneuvering combat against the forward hemisphere of targets.

[STORM 12]

Will enemy helicopters also very quickly escape from this missile?

[Pavel57]

The R-60 missiles have most likely exhausted all their resources.

[rocket757]

There is little information, and what there is does not inspire confidence.

[Comrade Beria]

I already wrote that this news wouldn't surprise me. But I somehow forgot about the R-60s. I thought they were all scrapped along with their carrier aircraft. But it turns out there are still a lot of R-60Ms left in storage. Of course, for combat use, they need an overhaul, and most likely, a replacement of the solid fuel, but that's all cheaper than producing new ones, especially since they were produced in Georgia in the USSR.

[Word]

Getting rid of old missiles for the benefit of the army and the country, instead of disposal, suppression of the target, there is no better alternative.

[alexoff]

And when I wrote here earlier that we should hang missiles on geraniums and hit helicopters, they tried to convince me that it was all nonsense.

[andrey martov]

I think that the Geranium will soon be so improved that it will have a crew. . .

[AK-1945]

The Geranium was equipped with air-to-air missiles.

And why not? The R-60 is obsolete, both technically and morally, by today's standards, but it hasn't become completely useless. There are reserves, so it's better to use them in this form than to rack your brains over disposal later. A good owner benefits from everything, and all this talk of "we should have done this better, or that, or it's not effective" is just the devil in the details.

[acetophenone]

Nice to read!!! It's there!

[Volunteer Marek]

Back when I was serving in the Soviet Air Force on the PPPR (those in the know, understand), back in the late 80s and early 99s, the attrition rate during periodic inspections on the Ingul was quite high. So, how much time has passed! Even rubber galoshes have an expiration date. Excuse the pun. But the idea itself and its execution are excellent. Anything that can cause harm to the enemy should be used.

[AC130 Gunship]

Even if this is not a fairy tale, how does the identification of the goal of the “friend or foe” type occur?
And it’s much easier for Geranium herself to fly up to the helicopter.

[AC130 Gunship]

Quote: Comrade Beria

The R-60M weighs about 45 kg, so Geranium can carry a pair of them over a range of up to 1500 km.

And don't you count the control module and mounting hardware? It needs to be kept from falling on anyone's head.

[air wolf]

Why not make a net out of geraniums, launching them at intervals of 20-30 minutes, with the first in the flock conducting reconnaissance, the second suppressing air defenses, the third shooting down aircraft, the fifth to tenth extinguishing objects, and the last collecting a photo report and returning home by parachute?

[Sailor]

At one time, the R-60 was a very good maneuverable BD missile.

[Kostadinov]

Geran + R-60 is a good combination. But we need to consider something even lighter and cheaper—for example, Gerber + a MANPADS missile or Geran + four MANPADS missiles.
Geran, armed with 4 MANPADS missiles, will be able to patrol near enemy airfields and use takeoff and landing capabilities.
They can be used both for air defense of troops and in the army.