Military Review

"All inclusive". Turkish Fleet Overview

115



The benefits of joint exercises

... on the calendar is October 1992 of the year. In the Aegean Sea, a united squadron of NATO naval forces is moving. Navigation fires of ships cut through the darkness of the southern night - crews rest from the intense day watch. They do not sleep only on the Saratoga aircraft carrier - American sailors are studying the automated guidance system of the Mk.95 anti-aircraft missiles (a key element of the self-defense system "Sea Sparrow"). Allied ships are used as "targets" - naturally, the allies do not know about it and sleep peacefully, swaying on their bunks.

The Americans deployed a fire control radar, alternately taking on the fly, each ship of the Allied squadron. Target taken on escort, air defense missile system ready for shooting! OK, the exercise is done perfectly, now carefully ... no, I said Carefully ... press the cancel button - and turn the radar in the other direction.

A sleepy finger presses the wrong key - the “Arm and tune” command comes to the control panel for rocket shooting. With a sharp clang the wall of the launch container flies away, two anti-aircraft missiles, driven by the radar beam Mk.95, rush towards the target. Who is the target? Oh shit, it's Turkish destroyer Muavenet!


5 dead, 22 wounded - a Turkish warship was shot by the allies at the exercises as a rusty target. A terrible incident. Turks offended look at their suzerain. Uncle Sam presents Turkey with a new ship - instead of the beaten Muavenet (the old galosh, the former American destroyer of the Second World War), Turkish sailors receive the next decommissioned frigate of the US Navy.

Turkish Navy today

Despite its regional status, the Turkish fleet is a well-balanced strike force - a strong argument in a troubled region of the Middle East. Rich traditions (the Ottoman fleet conducts its history from the XIV century). Bright victories (worth the memorable mayhem of the Anglo-French squadron while trying to break through the Dardanelles, 1915 year). Modern technology (new ships and upgraded "second hand" from leading US and European shipbuilders). And most importantly - the increased attention paid by the leadership of Turkey to this type of armed forces. All this has turned the Turkish Navy into the most formidable player in the eastern Mediterranean.

Readers will probably be interested in comparing the Turkish fleet with its obvious rival - the Russian Black Sea fleet. How great are the capabilities of both opponents? Which of the fleets of the two powers is most effective in conducting operations on the expanses of the Mediterranean and Black Seas? We will try to briefly answer these questions.

Nachem, perhaps, from the submarine fleet.

209 type submarines

Multi-purpose diesel-electric boats of German design, one of the most common diesel-electric submarines in the world. Submerged displacement - 1285 ... 1600 tons (depending on version). Full stroke - 22 node. Snorkel range is 8000 miles at cruising speed of 10 knots. The range of travel on batteries - 400 miles at speed 4 node. The maximum immersion depth is 500 meters. Crew 30 man.

Armament: 8 nose torpedo tubes, ammunition - 14 mine and torpedo units weapons or harpoon anti-ship missiles.


"All inclusive". Turkish Fleet Overview

Usually, submarines unfairly stand at the very end of the list of ships - after all the destroyers and frigates. In reality, the boats are the combat core of the fleet, the most powerful and deadly ships capable of solving a wide range of tasks - from disrupting naval communications to conducting special missions: observation and reconnaissance, landing sabotage groups and air correctors, breaking the blockade, delivering special cargo.

The Turkish Navy is armed with 14 submarines - the equipment was purchased in Germany from 1976 to 2007 a year. The last four boats, acquired in the new century, the “Gur” type are a new modification of the Type 209T2 / 1400. In 2011, a contract was signed for the supply of another batch of six Type 214 submarines equipped with an AIP air-independent propulsion system based on hydrogen fuel cells.


Surface forces of the Turkish Navy

Type G Frigates

The total displacement is 4200 tons. Crew 220 man. Full speed 30 knots. The stock of fuel on board provides 5000 miles cruising range at economic speeds of 18 knots.

Armament:
- single-grenade launcher Mk.13 (8 anti-aircraft missile "Harpoon" and 32 medium-range anti-aircraft missiles SM-1MR);
- installation of vertical launch Mk.41 (ammunition - 32 anti-aircraft missiles self-defense RIM-162 ESSM);
- OTO Melara artillery system caliber 76 mm;
- anti-aircraft artillery complex of self-defense "Phalanx" (six-barrel gun caliber 20 mm, radar and fire control system mounted on a single gun carriage);
- anti-submarine system Mk.32 (two TA, six small torpedoes);
- anti-submarine helicopter S-70 "X Hawk".



Multi-purpose frigates with enhanced air defense. All 8 units are former American ships of the Oliver Hazard Perry type, transferred to the Turkish Navy under a military assistance program. We have upgraded with the installation of new types of weapons (bow MUP.MN.41 with ESSM missiles) and radioelectronic systems (BIUS of its own design, new MSA Mk.92). A system appeared on the stern helipad to facilitate the landing and towing of an ASIST helicopter.

By the way, the American frigates "Oliver H. Perry" have never been distinguished by high combat characteristics. During its service, "Perry" twice became the victim of actions by the enemy. It is difficult to say how much the air defense capabilities of modernized Turkish frigates have increased, however, 32 modern Evolved Sea Sparrow Missle anti-aircraft missiles (ESSM), capable of maneuvering with 50-multiple overload at 4 speed, should significantly increase the level of protection of ships from air attacks.


There are no direct competitors for the Turkish frigates in the Black Sea Fleet. The patrol ships "Sharp-witted" (project 61) and "Inquisitive" (draft 1135) are designed to solve completely different tasks. The Russian patrol ships (frigates, according to NATO classification) have a completely different composition of armaments, directed towards strengthening the anti-submarine defense.
In terms of their air defense capabilities, the Turkish G-type frigates are close to the Moskva missile cruiser, however, their strike power is simply incomparable with that of the cruiser.

Frigates type "Barbaros"

The total displacement is 3350 tons. Crew 180 man. Full speed 32 knot. The stock of fuel on board provides 4000 miles cruising range at economic speeds of 18 knots.

Armament:
- 2 chetyrehzaryadnye installations for launching the Harpo PCR;
- an eight-charge installation of the Sea Sparrow SAM (ammunition - 16 anti-aircraft missiles, of which 8 is ready to launch);
- Mk.45 artillery system caliber 127 mm;
- 3 anti-aircraft artillery complex self-defense Sea Zenith caliber 25 mm;
- anti-submarine system Mk.32 (two TA, six small torpedoes);
- anti-submarine helicopter S-70 "X Hawk".



Four German frigates built according to the MEKO project (a family of warships developed by Blohm & Voss) especially for the Turkish Navy. The last two ships of the series, Salih-Reis and Kemal-Reis, received a modern vertical launch unit Mk.41 with the aforementioned ESSM missiles instead of the Sea Sparrow box-type launcher.

Frigates of the "Movenet" type

The total displacement is 4200 tons. Crew 250 man. Full speed 27 knots. The stock of fuel on board provides 4000 miles cruising range at economic speeds of 20 knots.

Armament:
- Mk.16 launcher (ASROC six rocket-torpedo ammunition, two harpoon missiles,);
- Mk.42 artillery system caliber 127 mm;
- anti-aircraft artillery complex self-defense "Phalanx";
- Helipad, hangar to accommodate a light helicopter.



Old American Knox type frigates built at the beginning of the 1970s. Turkey received about a dozen “Knoxes” in various conditions - from relatively combat-ready units to dismantled corps and a pile of trash for cannibalization. To date, as part of the Turkish Navy, there are still three frigates of this type. Suitable for patrols and, to a limited extent, for antisubmarine missions.

A notable feature of Knox-type frigates is the absence of any coherent air defense system. The anti-aircraft capabilities of the ship are limited to the only ZAL "Phalanx".


Knox type frigate


Yavuz frigates

The total displacement is 3000 tons. Crew 180 man. Full speed 27 knots. Fuel supply autonomy - 4100 miles at economic speeds of 18 knots.

Armament:
- 2 chetyrehzaryadnye installations for launching the Harpo PCR;
- an eight-charge installation of the Sea C-Sparrow SAM (ammunition - 16 anti-aircraft missiles);
- Mk.45 artillery system caliber 127 mm;
- 3 anti-aircraft artillery complex self-defense Sea Zenith caliber 25 mm;
- anti-submarine system Mk.32 (two TA, six small torpedoes);
- light multipurpose helicopter.



Regular representatives of the German project MEKO previous generation. Four frigates of the Yavuz type were built during the 1985-1989 period. Once were the most modern ships of the Turkish Navy. Currently outdated and need to be replaced.


Frigate "Yildyrim" ("Lightning")


MILGEM type corvettes

The total displacement is 2300 tons. Crew 100 man. Full speed 30 knots. Fuel supply autonomy - 3500 miles at economic speeds of 15 knots.
Armament:
- 2 chetyrehzaryadnye installations for launching the Harpo PCR;
- 21-charging installation melee RAM (anti-aircraft missiles for self-defense);
- OTO Melara artillery system caliber 76 mm;
- anti-submarine system Mk.32 (two TA, six small torpedoes);
- anti-submarine helicopter Sikorsky S-70 Seahawk and / or UAV.

* In the future, it is planned to equip the Muk.41 corps de corps (32 RIM-162 ESSM anti-aircraft missiles)



The first attempt of Turkey to create a modern warship "on its own". Quotes are not accidental - German designs are widely used in the construction of corvettes, and all weapons are represented by American designs. Nevertheless, corvettes of this type are built on Istanbul shipyards, more than 50 related Turkish companies are involved in the construction, and all electronic systems of ships are integrated into the combat information and control system GENESIS of its own production.

To date, the 2 corvette for the Turkish naval forces (in the line - one) has been built on the MILGEM project (Milli Gemi, which means “national ship”). Six more ships of this type are under construction, with a total planned quantity of 12 units. The last four corvettes are planned to be built on a modified project with the installation of the latest air defense system based on the OHR and ESSM missiles.

Admittedly, the Turkish shipbuilders managed to create a fairly successful warship, with combat capabilities acceptable for its size. In the future, the delivery of MILGEM corvettes for export is possible.



In addition to frigates and large multi-purpose corvettes, the Turkish Navy includes:

- 6 older Burak type corvettes. Displacement 1300 tons, speed 23 node, artillery caliber 100 mm, the French RCC "Exochet", small anti-submarine torpedoes.

- 27 small artillery ships (MAK) and rocket boats;

- 20 mine ships;

- 45 landing craft, including Osman Ghazni tank landing ship;

- 13 naval tankers for the delivery of fuel, fresh water and other liquids;

- 2 military vehicles, incl. specialized "Iskenderun";

- 3 rescue vessel designed to evacuate crews from submarines lying on the ground, as well as to supply air, electricity and rescue equipment to emergency submarines (surface ships) and provide emergency medical care to victims.

- 6 sea tugs;

- 3 oceanographic vessel.




Minesweeper "Amasra" (M266)


Marine aviation includes:

- 19 basic anti-submarine and patrol aircraft (Italian-French ATR 72 and Spanish CASA CN-235 built under license);

- 50 anti-submarine and multi-purpose helicopters (heavy machines of the Sikorsky company and various modifications of the Iroquois helicopters built by the Italian company Augusta).

In the near future, the Turkish admirals set out for themselves three important goals:

- create your own air defense destroyer, comparable in capabilities with the American Orly Berk or at least with the European frigate Horizon. Work on the project, which received the TF2000 code, has been going on since 2006.

- to introduce into the Navy a universal amphibious assault ship helicopter, similar to the MTC UDKV tactical technical characteristics. It remains only to guess what the Turks needed a ship of this class - all the interests of Turkey lie within a few hours of travel from Istanbul. However, these are just dreams, in reality, the Turks are waiting for the transfer of the next frigates excluded from the US Navy - USS Halyburton and USS Thanch (both are of the type “Oliver H. Perry”).

- ship integrated supply (tanker), designed to provide the Navy in remote areas of the oceans. There are suspicions that the American sailors will mostly use the Turkish KKS - a kind of "contribution" of Turkey to international operations.


***

Acınmaktansa haset edilmek evladır - “It’s better to be jealous than to be sorry,” says a Turkish saying. The situation is indeed alarming, the southern neighbor is rapidly increasing its naval power. There is not even a desire to laugh and feel sorry for the “unfortunate Turks” with their second-hand frigates - well-upgraded equipment, especially in large numbers, ensures the Turkish fleet dominance of communications in the eastern part of the Mediterranean. However, the matter is not even in the old frigates and not in the promising UDKV - the situation with submarines is much more dangerous: 14 Turkish submarines against two diesel-electric submarines of the Black Sea Fleet (one of which is under repair from 2000 of the year).

The Turkish fleet is stronger than ever and most adapted for solving local problems in the conditions of the Black Sea and the Middle East. The modern Russian Black Sea Fleet, by contrast, is the skeleton of the once mighty fleet, “sharpened” for solving strategic tasks in the Mediterranean Sea and in the vast world ocean. Just look at the appearance of the cruiser “Moscow” (the playful name is “grin of socialism”) to understand what kind of beast it is and for what purpose this magnificent technique is intended.

Nevertheless, it should be remembered that all the forces of the Turkish Navy (without division by areas of responsibility) are compared with the limited forces of the Black Sea Fleet.

The Black Sea Fleet in the 20th century, for a number of objective reasons, has never been the strongest fleet of Russia. For example, nuclear submarines have never been based here - such questions should be addressed to North Seamen. There is no doubt that with increasing tension, the ships of the Northern Fleet will arrive in the region and the Turkish fleet will simply dissolve against the background of this power.


A curious shot - a type G Turkish frigate accompanies the Saar 4.5 missile boat of the Israeli Navy.
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  1. lexa333
    lexa333 April 30 2013 08: 19
    +4
    Yes. Weak CCF against the Turks.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 30 2013 08: 27
      11
      this is how to look with aviation and with NK from the Caspian with calibers, I would really argue.
      And when all the planned 11356r come, I would not put on the Turks
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak April 30 2013 11: 35
        +6
        Quote: leon-iv
        with aviation and with NK from the Caspian with calibers


        It's only about the Black Sea Fleet, Oleg wrote correctly with the involvement of ships of other fleets, the Turks have nothing to catch, but you still have to go through the Bosphorus, as I understand it Oleg was not in vain to storm the Dardanelles (incidentally, the mediocre commander Churchill conceived) 1915
        1. Kars
          Kars April 30 2013 13: 18
          +4
          Quote: Vadivak
          assault dardanelles

          sinking French battleship at the Dardanelles
          1. rumpeljschtizhen
            rumpeljschtizhen April 30 2013 20: 02
            +4
            By the way, the Turkish fleet has nothing to do with the dardonelles, and mines and coastal batteries have distinguished themselves here.
      2. Andrey77
        Andrey77 1 May 2013 14: 16
        +1
        I would have bet on the Turks even then. Turkey's fleet is comparable to ours, but they need to protect a "puddle", and we - the whole ocean.
    2. Siberian
      Siberian April 30 2013 09: 54
      +4
      In the Black Sea puddle, the last and main word belongs to aviation. The Russian Navy is not worried about why, if necessary, the entire fleet of Turkey will be sunk in a few hours.
      1. Kavtorang
        Kavtorang April 30 2013 10: 46
        +9
        Quote: SIBERIAN
        In the Black Sea puddle, the last and main word belongs to aviation.

        Certainly.
        Quote: SIBERIAN
        The Russian Navy is not worried about why, if necessary, the entire fleet of Turkey will be sunk in a few hours.

        But this is unlikely. Will we lift the Tu-160 and Tu-95 into the air, or will we send the Tu-22 again for "successful" reconnaissance?
        1. Siberian
          Siberian April 30 2013 11: 05
          0
          Do we have problems with reconnaissance and target designation in the Black Sea? I think there are special means, the main thing is the political will of the military leadership, the rest will follow ...
          1. Kavtorang
            Kavtorang April 30 2013 12: 05
            +7
            Quote: SIBERIAN
            Do we have problems with reconnaissance and target designation in the Black Sea?

            Yes. And not only in the Black Sea, but also in the Baltic Sea and on the ocean theater (in general ...). In general, we have very big problems with marine reconnaissance, and as a result, problems with naval intelligence. There are no problems in the Caspian. For logical reasons - there’s nothing to scout.
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak April 30 2013 11: 38
        +1
        Quote: SIBERIAN
        In the Black Sea puddle, the last and main word belongs to aviation.


        There is air defense for aviation, and it’s not at all a fact that they will not surrender us again as Georgians in 2008
        1. Siberian
          Siberian April 30 2013 11: 53
          0
          Quote: Vadivak
          There is air defense for aviation, and it’s not at all a fact that they will not surrender us again as Georgians in 2008

          The characteristics of strike means allow aviation to strike without entering the air defense zone
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak April 30 2013 11: 55
            +9
            Quote: SIBERIAN
            The characteristics of strike means allow aviation to strike without entering the air defense zone


            It’s during exercises, but it’s actually loaded with bombs and thrown into unsuppressed air defense
            1. Siberian
              Siberian April 30 2013 15: 43
              +2
              Quote: Vadivak
              It’s during exercises, but it’s actually loaded with bombs and thrown into unsuppressed air defense


              Really, during the years of confrontation with the US Navy, nothing useful has been gained ???
              1. Vadivak
                Vadivak April 30 2013 15: 55
                +7
                Quote: SIBERIAN
                Really, during the years of confrontation with the US Navy, nothing useful has been gained ???


                In the USSR it was, and now, as they say, technology is lost along with conscience
          2. Atrix
            Atrix April 30 2013 13: 19
            0
            Quote: SIBERIAN
            Quote: Vadivak
            There is air defense for aviation, and it’s not at all a fact that they will not surrender us again as Georgians in 2008

            The characteristics of strike means allow aviation to strike without entering the air defense zone

            Once again, is there no Aviation in Turkey?) You only say what you want to hear.
      3. Atrix
        Atrix April 30 2013 13: 16
        12
        Quote: SIBERIAN
        In the Black Sea puddle, the last and main word belongs to aviation. The Russian Navy is not worried about why, if necessary, the entire fleet of Turkey will be sunk in a few hours.

        This question is just for myself, is there really no Air Force in Turkey? Or only the Russians can drown the Air Force? Why do you say A and don’t tell B that Turkey also has Aviation and is not very weak.
        1. Siberian
          Siberian April 30 2013 15: 39
          +2
          Quote: Atrix
          This question is just for myself, is there really no Air Force in Turkey? Or only the Russians can drown the Air Force? Why do you say A and don’t tell B that Turkey also has Aviation and is not very weak.


          and no one says it will be easy. It will be a war with all the consequences, the losses will be on both sides, the whole question is the ultimate strength and the compensability of the losses. Did anyone doubt the military power and capabilities of Turkey?
          1. xetai9977
            xetai9977 11 May 2013 15: 00
            0
            those are available
      4. Col.
        Col. 1 May 2013 10: 19
        +5
        Quote: SIBERIAN
        The Russian Navy is not worried about why, if necessary, the entire fleet of Turkey will be sunk in a few hours.


        First, we have not the Navy, but the Navy.
        Secondly, what are you going to use for heating? Three "live" Be-12s and a dozen helicopters? This is all that remains of the once powerful Air Force of the Black Sea Fleet (mrad of a three-regiment composition on the Tu-22M2 and Tu-22M3; two Be-12 oplap; Tu-22R odrap; An-12, An-26, An-24 oplvp; Ka- 27pl, etc.)
      5. svp67
        svp67 1 May 2013 13: 09
        +2
        Quote: SIBERIAN
        The Russian Navy is not worried about why, if necessary, the entire fleet of Turkey will be sunk in a few hours.
        Yeah, we’ll throw his hats over it ... During the Second World War, our aircraft hunted for Finnish ships throughout the war, but didn’t sank anything. And the Turks, in case of threat, will take the ships to the Mediterranean Sea, under the protection of the 6 fleet and that’s all ...
      6. cdrt
        cdrt 2 May 2013 13: 40
        -1
        And it’s known how - we will throw caps wink
      7. xetai9977
        xetai9977 11 May 2013 14: 59
        -1
        everyone has aviation
      8. mvg
        mvg 13 November 2013 21: 01
        0
        Wow, is it sunk? what kind of forces? 30 planes, of which 10 will take off, or a miracle with the Moscow cruiser of the 80s and the MRC, which distinguished itself in Abkhazia? And Turkish aviation is not worse. F-16 Bl 52, with its avionics and the same Harpoons. The Orion patrols will quickly find the only boat, and 209 some of the best boats in the class are not in vain buying them. Black Sea Fleet will not come out of the bases ..
    3. Anti
      Anti April 30 2013 16: 27
      0
      Quote: lexa333
      Yes. Weak CCF against the Turks.

      but forgot about it ?? If that Ajarian dance will be performed laughing wink
      1. Santa Fe
        April 30 2013 17: 49
        +5
        Container complex "Club"!

        "Morinformsystem Agat" has been toughly promoting its invention for 3-4 years, but ... not a single order has been received!

        There are several reasons:

        1. Financial. A simple and cheap "asymmetric" answer costs 500 million rubles (a "Club" container, a launcher with a control cabin). For the same money, you can buy, for example, a new Mi-17 helicopter (export version of the Mi-8)
        Sour.

        2. Target designation. Without a control center, a container with a rocket does not make sense. Who issues the over-the-horizon control center? AWACS aircraft - AWACS, DzhiStars, space reconnaissance systems ... it is clear that the poor countries, which the Club is supposedly focused on, cannot afford this

        3. The idea itself is hopeless. Those countries that have a developed cargo flow are not interested in "container ships with missiles" (they have a normal army with aviation and OTR).

        Those who, theoretically could be interested in such an "asymmetric" weapon, cannot use it - agree, a bright container (which weighs ten tons - special equipment is required for it, etc.) is quite difficult to hide on a deserted beach in Somalia, or some Zimbabwe.

        4. The creators of the "Club" do not seem to know about the naval blockade, interception and inspection of suspicious ships.

        5. Finally, the "club" has not revealed anything new to the world - the military method "disguise" has been known to man since the "Stone Age". And they learned to hide cruise missiles in compact containers 30 years ago - an armored box Mk. 143 ABL for storing and launching Tomahawks (used by the US Navy in the 80s before the appearance of UVP)
        1. Anti
          Anti April 30 2013 18: 09
          -2
          More Hotels for Young Turks wink
          CLUB-M is a multifunctional mobile coastal missile system designed to engage the following types of targets:
          - anti-ship missiles - surface ships of various types and classes (both single and as part of a group) in the conditions of organized opposition by the enemy;
          - missiles for ground targets - stationary objects on the territory of the enemy (administrative and economic centers, weapons depots and petrochemical storages, command posts, port infrastructure, airfields, etc.).
          One self-propelled launcher accommodates up to 6 (six) missiles in transport-launch containers (TPK).

          The presence of active and passive radar detection channels allows for a flexible detection strategy, including covert. Detection range in active mode - up to 250 km, and in passive mode - up to 450 km. It is also possible to obtain operational information from external reconnaissance and target designation equipment.
          The effectiveness of hitting targets is achieved by firing as single missiles from any launcher, or volleys from different launchers.

          FEATURES:
          - Stealth and mobility
          - The defeat of surface and ground targets
          - Use of Club missiles
          The SCRC "Club-M" includes a self-propelled launcher on the chassis of the Belarusian MAZ, a transport and reloading vehicle, a technical support vehicle, an observation, command and control post, cruise missiles in transport and launch containers (TPK), as well as support equipment and storage of missiles. The uniqueness of this complex lies in the fact that its combat assets include both anti-ship missiles with subsonic and supersonic flight speeds (ZM54E1 and ZM54E, respectively), and the ZM14E cruise missile, designed to strike at coastal targets. Thus, this complex gives its owner the opportunity to build a universal defense system. In addition, the "Club-M" can also be used in a purely land theater of operations. "

          Thus, the recent presentation of the Iskander OTRK equipped with a KR with mysterious flight characteristics suggests that it was a ground version of the 3M54E Kalibr-NK anti-ship missile system (supersonic) or 3M54E1 (subsonic version). Judging by the fact that Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov strenuously leaned on the high characteristics of overcoming missile defense with this missile, it could be a question of a supersonic version of the CD with a solid-propellant final stage. But it can be just a subsonic version without a solid-propellant warhead, or just a 3M14. It was said above that the Novator Design Bureau has already adapted the Club for use with the "Belarusian MAZ chassis". As you know, the already legendary Iskander complex can be based on two types of chassis - the Bryansk BAZ-6909 (for the RF Armed Forces) or the Belarusian MAZ-7930 (Iskander-E - export). The launcher can accommodate, in all likelihood, from two to six transport and launch containers with CD. The self-propelled launcher "Club-M" is equipped with 6 TPKs for the 3M14 type missile launchers.

          It consists of three vehicles with eighteen missiles, as well as a launcher and target designation system. Club-M is mounted on a Belarusian-made chassis. Club missiles are capable of striking ships of the "corvette-frigate-destroyer" class at a distance of up to 450 kilometers.
        2. Col.
          Col. 1 May 2013 10: 32
          +3
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Those who, theoretically could be interested in such an "asymmetric" weapon,

          Let me correct it, colleague. Not “asymmetric”, but asymmetric. ”From the word“ syMmetry ”and the prefix“ a ”replacing“ not. ”But this is so, by the way ... And most importantly, I wanted to know: where did the bike about the launch from Saratoga come from? "on the Turkish ship is it" Sea Sparrow "? Do not you confuse? SAM - on the ship ?? I don’t remember such miracles for 25 years of service in intelligence ...
          1. Santa Fe
            1 May 2013 14: 12
            +1
            Quote: Colonel
            Not "asymmetric", but asymmetric ". From the word" syMmetry "and the prefix" a "replacing" not "

            Errors and typos - this is the most interesting in any text wink
            Quote: Colonel
            And most importantly, what I wanted to know: where did the bike come from about launching the Sea Sparrow from Saratoga on the Turkish ship?

            any thematic source, for example -
            http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/0833.htm
            Quote: Colonel
            SAM - by ship?

            There’s even a video at the bottom of the comments
            1. Col.
              Col. 1 May 2013 16: 57
              +2
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              There’s even a video at the bottom of the comments

              Your link: http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/0833.htm does not open. But about the modifications Xi Sparrow read in other places. Yes, indeed, from 1991 of the year it became possible to use on surface targets ... Well, well done Americans, and I confess I forgot this fact. With pensioners it happens what
              1. Santa Fe
                1 May 2013 23: 26
                +1
                Quote: Colonel
                Your link: http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/0833.htm does not open.

                Yes, the navsours register has been junking something lately.
                works in an hour
                Quote: Colonel
                With pensioners it happens

                There are no former scouts bully
      2. Gari
        Gari April 30 2013 22: 47
        +1
        Quote: Anti
        but forgot about it ?? If that Ajarian dance will be performed

        Gandgan beautiful dance
    4. T-100
      T-100 April 30 2013 23: 18
      +3
      Our fleet would be strong as a rock, but there are agreements with Ukraine that we will no longer increase the number of ships of the Black Sea Fleet and will not upgrade them, but soon it will be poker to us)))
    5. svp67
      svp67 1 May 2013 13: 06
      0
      Quote: lexa333
      Yes. Weak CCF against the Turks.

      While there are Borei, the Black Sea Fleet can squeeze the Turks very hard ...
  2. radio operator
    radio operator April 30 2013 08: 29
    +9
    The Turks have great appetites. Even Erdogan publicly stated that the goal of the Turkish people is to return to the borders of the Ottoman Empire. What is sad - he has the opportunity for this. Moreover, given the fact that the population of Turkey and Russians is changing by a million a year. The only difference is that the Turks breed, and we are dying out.
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco April 30 2013 15: 18
      +3
      Quote: radio operator
      . Even Erdogan publicly stated that the goal of the Turkish people is to return to the borders of the Ottoman Empire.

      This is not Erdogan stated. And England speaks through his mouth. It is no secret that Turkey owes its existence to England and the USA. Largely thanks to England, Turkey is on the map. Britain keeps the Turks on a short leash, and at the command of the owner, this dog casts a vote in the direction indicated by the hazyain. There are many examples of this since the century before last. One of the reasons for the Caribbean crisis in 1962 was the location of US strategic missiles in Turkey, now Petriot is deployed, what next? It seems that the Turks themselves can not think. They want not to sit there, and eat a fish.
      1. ayyildiz
        ayyildiz April 30 2013 17: 25
        +6
        If you bought and placed, would the same conversations go?
    2. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz April 30 2013 17: 29
      +2
      Everyone has huge appetites, but the translation is not correct, it means that they will economically return to the borders of the Ottoman Empire, then the trade turnover is up!
    3. xetai9977
      xetai9977 11 May 2013 15: 01
      +1
      you correctly noticed it
  3. UPStoyan
    UPStoyan April 30 2013 08: 30
    +3
    Do not evaluate the fleet in isolation from aviation. The Black Sea allows the use of coastal aviation to the full depth, and one Tu-22M3 regiment, with reliable fighter cover, can drown the entire surface fleet of Turkey in a couple of sorties.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 30 2013 09: 18
      11
      Quote: UPStoyan
      Do not evaluate the fleet in isolation from aviation.

      You're right. But here life is rich in nuances of shades. If we take naval aviation proper, then here we are, of course, in the plus - nevertheless we have at the World Cup a whole regiment of Su-24 and Su-24MR, while Turkish naval aviation simply does not have aircraft of a similar class. But this (very serious) advantage is still not overwhelming.
      If we compare the Air Force in general, then everything is not so cool either - the Turks have about two hundred F-16 and about 150 of the old-time F-4. It is sad to talk about this, but the Russian Air Force is unlikely to be able to deploy a group of at least half the indicated strength, although of course our Su-27 and Mig-31 by TTX are much more decent.
      1. Kavtorang
        Kavtorang April 30 2013 10: 05
        +3
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        But here life is rich in nuances of shades. If we take the naval aviation itself, then here we are, of course, in the plus - nevertheless we have at the World Cup a whole regiment of Su-24 and Su-24MR, while Turkish naval aviation simply does not have aircraft of the same class. But this (very serious) advantage is still not overwhelming.

        Get ahead while I get from work wink
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 30 2013 10: 14
          +2
          I beg your pardon! :) drinks
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 30 2013 10: 48
        11
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        If we compare the Air Force in general, then everything is not so cool either - the Turks have about two hundred F-16 and about 150 of the old-time F-4. It is sad to talk about this, but the Russian Air Force is unlikely to be able to deploy a group of at least half the indicated strength, although of course our Su-27 and Mig-31 by TTX are much more decent.

        Why the hell is diplomacy? We have about 70 flight-friendly Su-27s of the 80s release left for the whole country. What comparison can be made with the Turkish Air Force? They are much stronger. And it is precisely aviation to the south that needs to be strengthened (including carriers of nuclear weapons).
        A surface ships of the Black Sea Fleet are generally unnecessary. There are no allies in Europe, the straits are closed, Turkey is a member of NATO. The ships are needed by the ocean fleets. First of all, the Pacific Fleet.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 30 2013 11: 12
          +3
          Well, all the military secrets and laid out :)))
          Quote: Odyssey
          And surface ships of the Black Sea Fleet are generally unnecessary

          Well, why? We would go to the Mediterranean, provide a detachment of ships there, which they would like to keep in that area of ​​the Russian Federation
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus April 30 2013 11: 39
            +7
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Well, all the military secrets and laid out :)))

            I beg you)) What are military secrets? The main "military secret" of our time is on whom are recorded and in which banks the accounts of our "rulers" are kept. This military secret is really strictly guarded.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            We would go to the Mediterranean, provide a detachment of ships there, which they would like to keep in that area of ​​the Russian Federation

            This means using ships for "representative purposes." This is also necessary, but, IMHO, only after the issues with the recruitment of fleets with combat missions (SF, Pacific Fleet)
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak April 30 2013 12: 06
            +6
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Well, why? We would go to the Mediterranean, oh


            Again, if the Turks are allowed. Tea is not the USSR, it was then possible to ask single-handedly while asking why what are you actually doing here?
        2. Vadivak
          Vadivak April 30 2013 11: 54
          +2
          Quote: Odyssey
          We have about 70 flight-friendly Su-27s of the 80s release left for the whole country


          Well, not 80, of course, do not forget more about 100 pieces in storage, in addition, in 2011 there were already 12 new Su-27SM3 fighters and four of them got to the Krasnodar Territory. But the Chinese have more flies, I mean both the Su-27 and Su-30
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus April 30 2013 12: 05
            +3
            Quote: Vadivak
            Well, not 80, of course, do not forget more about 100 pieces in storage, in addition, in 2011 there were already 12 new Su-27SM3 fighters and four of them got to the Krasnodar Territory.

            I agree, with the more stored it comes out))
            And to deter Turkey, it would be nice to equip the Su-34 TNW, and to keep one regiment in the Krasnodar Territory.
            And one more regiment of modern fighters is needed.
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak April 30 2013 12: 14
              +5
              Quote: Odyssey
              And to deter Turkey, it would be nice to equip the Su-34 TNW


              We are of this opinion, and here the World Cup on the nose, it is urgent to develop the loot of pensioners, not to the Black Sea Fleet in general


      3. Andrew
        Andrew April 30 2013 20: 08
        +1
        And we only have in the Southern Military District 100 MIG29, SU-27 and 100 SU-24 fighters plus Black Sea Fleet aviation and ZVO aviation. and the floor of the sea is covered by air defense.
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus April 30 2013 23: 41
          +2
          Quote: andrei
          And we only have in the Southern Military District 100 MIG29, SU-27 and 100 SU-24 fighters plus Black Sea Fleet aviation and ZVO aviation. and the sea floor is covered by air defense

          Do not confuse the payroll with the flight-friendly. And then in 4 command there never were so many planes even in the payroll.
  4. radio operator
    radio operator April 30 2013 08: 34
    15
    I propose not to increase the budget of Turkey, refusing to travel to Turkish resorts and not buying Turkish goods.
    Let's make each small contribution to the "quiet war" with a potential enemy.
    1. Siberian
      Siberian April 30 2013 10: 01
      +7
      The specific share of investments of Russian tourists is a "drop in the ocean" relative to Turkey's GDP. It is more profitable to attract Turkey economically as much as possible, so that even the possibility of a military clash brought down the Turkish economy
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz April 30 2013 10: 39
        +1
        Quote: SIBERIAN
        The specific share of investments of Russian tourists is a "drop in the ocean" relative to Turkey's GDP. It is more profitable to attract Turkey economically as much as possible, so that even the possibility of a military clash brought down the Turkish economy

        It is possible to make Turkey as close to itself as possible only through the economy, and from there in the future in politics. The Turks invest a lot in Russia, Russia receives contracts in Turkey, mutual penetration and deepening of the economies of the two countries is underway, and as high as possible this level will be harder and more reluctant confrontation on the political field, because on the eve there will be a lot of money that no one wants to lose.
        Therefore, the path to Turkey, its hypothetical secession from the West, against the backdrop of the West’s reluctance to accept Turkey into the EU, Turkey’s desire to be a more independent player, and not flirting with the topic of genocide, unlike Turkey’s allies and economic cooperation, will give Russia a chance to tear Turkey away from the West and the opportunity closer political rapprochement in the future.
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak April 30 2013 12: 00
        +2
        Quote: SIBERIAN
        The specific share of investments of Russian tourists is a "drop in the ocean" relative to Turkey's GDP.


        I would not be so categorical, Tourism is the main sector of the Turkish economy and our compatriots are not taking rubles there.
        1. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz April 30 2013 12: 31
          +4
          Quote: Vadivak
          Tourism is the main sector of the Turkish economy


          It is an important but not the main sector of the Turkish economy!

          You take into account how much the tour package costs and minus the cost of the flight there, only Russian airlines fly there

          Russia sells more goods in Turkey than buys, and tourism does not close this imbalance
    2. 12061973
      12061973 April 30 2013 10: 05
      +5
      according to your logic, you need to boycott the goods and services of Turkey, China, Japan, NATO countries, etc., but what then to buy, is your computer really made in Russia.
      1. StolzSS
        StolzSS April 30 2013 11: 06
        +1
        My yes is made in Russia, however, according to stolen technologies))) If you want, you can and not only make a computer)))
        1. 12061973
          12061973 April 30 2013 11: 17
          0
          my condolences.
  5. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov April 30 2013 08: 46
    15
    This article would be shown to our powerful "leaders". Let them compare with our Black Sea Fleet. Let's be fair if we say that the Black Sea Fleet is a flotilla of museum exhibits that do not represent a valuable military force.
    Let's remember the year 1999. Then the Black Sea squadron was going to help Yugoslavia. But when the alignment of forces was explained to our leaders and told that our ships, at best, would be enough for one hour of battle (which is much less than during Tsushima) and that our ships would not even have time to shoot, then we caught ourselves and sent a reconnaissance ship to Middle-earth, built on the basis of the trawler. In the morning I smell it, the patriots will now instruct me a lot of minuses, but the bitter truth I have said.
    1. Gari
      Gari April 30 2013 10: 00
      +8
      The London Convention of 1871 was concluded on March 13, 1871 by Russia, Turkey, Germany, Austria-Hungary, England, Italy, France during the conference of these countries convened in connection with Gorchakov’s circular (1870) on the rejection of the conditions of the Paris world that prohibited Russia have a navy in the Black Sea. Russia and Turkey were allowed to have any number of warships in the Black Sea. Keeping the ban on the passage of Russian warships through the straits, the conference participants introduced a clause allowing Turkey to pass through them the military vessels of its friendly countries (i.e., former opponents of Russia in the Crimean War). Nevertheless, the London Convention was a diplomatic victory for Russia, forcing to reconsider the conditions of the Paris world, which limited its sovereignty in the Black Sea.

      ARTICLE II.

      The closure of the Dardanelles and Bosphorus Straits, as established by the separate convention on March 30, 1856, remains valid, with the right granted by the e.i. Sultan, to open the said straits in peacetime for the military courts of friendly and allied powers in the event that the Brilliant Porta finds it necessary to ensure the execution of the decisions of the Paris Treaty on March 30, 1856.

      Although Russia received an equal opportunity with other states to pass your military. ships through the straits with the consent of Turkey, but this equality was formal. L. to. Violated the interests of Russia, closing Rus. military man. ships the only way from the Black m. to the open seas and without ensuring its safety.

      During the Russo-Japanese War of 1904–05, this put Russia in a position, during the reign of Black Sea, the fleet was deprived of the opportunity to take part in the war against Japan.

      During World War I, Turkey, while still formally neutral, let Germany pass through the straits. military man. ships (lin. cruiser "Geben" and cruiser "Breslau"), the purpose of which was to conduct military operations against Russia.

      During the years of the Grad. war in Russia naval. forces of the Entente also used straits to enter the Black Metro and attack the owls. the coast.
      1. Kavtorang
        Kavtorang April 30 2013 10: 10
        +6
        Quote: Gari
        During World War I, Turkey, while still formally neutral, let Germany pass through the straits. military man. ships (lin. cruiser "Geben" and cruiser "Breslau"), the purpose of which was to conduct military operations against Russia.

        As I recall, in order to avoid formal showdowns about the violation of the straits regime, these two ships were bought on August 16, 1914 (symbolically, of course) and received the names "Midilli" and "Yavuz Sultan Selim".
      2. Gari
        Gari April 30 2013 10: 15
        +5
        The conference in Montreux (Switzerland) on the regime of the Black Sea Straits was held on June 22 - July 21 with the participation of the USSR, Turkey, Great Britain, France, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Yugoslavia, Australia and Japan. The conference was convened at the proposal of Turkey in order to revise the convention on the regime of the Black Sea Straits adopted at the Lausanne Conference of 1922-23.
        At a conference in Montreux, Great Britain made a proposal to equalize the rights of the Black Sea and non-Black Sea powers to the passage of their warships through the straits, which would lead to a restriction of the rights of passage of ships of the USSR Navy. The conference was further complicated by the collusion of the Turkish delegation with the British delegation. The Soviet Union took a principled position.
        The Montreux Convention retains the freedom of passage through the strait for merchant ships of all countries in both peacetime and wartime. However, the mode of passage of warships is different for the Black Sea and non-Black Sea states. Subject to prior notification by the Turkish authorities, the Black Sea Powers may navigate their warships of any class through the straits in peacetime. For warships of non-Black Sea powers, significant class restrictions have been introduced (only small surface ships pass) and tonnage.
        In the case of Turkey’s participation in the war, and also if Turkey considers that it is directly threatened by war, it is granted the right to allow or prohibit passage of any military vessels through the straits.
        During a war in which Turkey is not participating, the straits should be closed to the passage of military vessels of any belligerent nation. The Convention eliminated the international strait commission provided for in the Lausanne Convention, with the transfer of its functions to the Turkish government.

        However, during the armed conflict in 2008 in South Ossetia, an American military ship with a significant displacement entered the Black Sea. In this regard, the question arose about the applicability of the Montreux Convention.
        1. Siberian
          Siberian April 30 2013 10: 34
          +4
          Quote: Gari
          However, during the armed conflict in 2008 in South Ossetia, an American military ship with a significant displacement entered the Black Sea. In this regard, the question arose about the applicability of the Montreux Convention.

          read carefully:
          Quote: Gari
          During a war in which Turkey is not involved, straits should be closed to passage military courts any warring powers.


          The United States did not participate in the war, therefore they could enter the World Cup.
        2. Kavtorang
          Kavtorang April 30 2013 11: 52
          +7
          Gari,
          Who hated you so much? The second time I try to put you "+" for excerpts from the documents on the regime of the straits, and the second time you roll back to "0"?
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak April 30 2013 12: 12
            +9
            Quote: Kavtorang
            Who hated you so much?


            Correctable. And the minusers, dear cautorang, have a special relation to the Turks, I mean their Turkic roots and therefore minus purely in support of a hypothetical ally
          2. Gari
            Gari April 30 2013 15: 04
            +5
            Quote: Kavtorang
            Gari
            Who hated you so much? The second time I try to put you "+" for excerpts from the documents on the regime of the straits, and the second time you roll back to "0"?

            Thanks for the support, who hated I think it’s clear
            Vadivak replied
            Correctable. And the minusers, dear cautorang, have a special relation to the Turks, I mean their Turkic roots and therefore minus purely in support of a hypothetical ally
            I'm already used to it, if they can only minus the cover with nothing, the main thing is that they plus more
            1. mansur
              mansur April 30 2013 15: 25
              +1
              17.01.2012
              An early warning radar station has been commissioned in Turkey, which is part of the NATO missile defense system, which the US is building near the borders with Russia. It is known that this radar will be controlled from an operations center located in Germany. The station is located in the city of Malatya. It is about 500 kilometers southeast of Ankara and about 700 kilometers from the border with Iran. The personnel of the radar is equipped with Turkish and American military.

              Data from the radar will be transmitted to command centers in the United States and to ships equipped with the AEGIS sea-based missile defense system. Including and on those that are on duty in the Mediterranean Sea.
              Russia also tried to obtain legal guarantees that the system would not be directed against it, but the US openly refused to do so.

              Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said at the time: "The installation of a radar in Turkey is an important step for the entire region."
              1. Kavtorang
                Kavtorang April 30 2013 16: 03
                +2
                Do you have your own opinion?
                Is what you quoted is good, bad, or is it talking about something ?. Does this mean that Turkey has integrated into some kind of NATO BIUS on TVD, or is it ready for this, or is it to strive for this?
                What to do with your information wink
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic April 30 2013 14: 10
      +6
      Quote: VohaAhov
      then they realized it and sent a reconnaissance ship built on the basis of the trawler to the middle-earth.


      Plus the multipurpose nuclear submarine "Kursk" and the diesel "Varshavyanka" (kilo-black hole). "Kursk" was never found and "Varshavyanka" successfully drove the entire 6th fleet of the SySHA by the nose, distracting the enemy from the "Kursk" with its maneuvers. which allowed him to successfully carry out several simulations of the defeat of an American aircraft carrier ("Theodore Roosevelt" as far as I remember)
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak April 30 2013 16: 00
        +4
        Quote: Ascetic
        "Kursk" which allowed him to successfully carry out several simulations of the defeat of an American aircraft carrier


        She drowned. That says it all
        1. Kavtorang
          Kavtorang April 30 2013 16: 17
          +4
          Quote: Vadivak
          She drowned. That's it.

          Extremely sad, but - YES. Moreover, so that the real cause of death will not be known to anyone living (thanks to the features of the ship lifting and disposal of what they raised).
          Quote: Ascetic
          Plus the multipurpose nuclear submarine "Kursk" and the diesel "Varshavyanka" (kilo-black hole). "Kursk" was never found and "Varshavyanka" successfully drove the entire 6th fleet of the SySHA by the nose, distracting the enemy from the "Kursk" with its maneuvers. which allowed him to successfully carry out several simulations of the defeat of an American aircraft carrier ("Theodore Roosevelt" as far as I remember)

          Did they lie to you or you deceived yourself. And forget that our boats are the quietest - no longer. In the combat strength of a number of the Navy there are absolute "slugs" - project "214" (alas, not in ours).
  6. Nayhas
    Nayhas April 30 2013 09: 36
    +4
    "There is no doubt that when tensions rise, ships of the Northern Fleet will arrive in the region and the Turkish fleet will simply dissolve against the backdrop of this power." - and how will the straits pass? Black Sea "bottle" whose neck is in the hands of the Turks, they will want to miss the "relics with solvent" of the Northern Fleet, but no way ...
  7. Gari
    Gari April 30 2013 09: 52
    +4
    The ships of the allies are used as “targets” - naturally, the allies don’t know this, they sleep peacefully, swaying in their bunks - this is the norm.

    The Americans deployed a fire control radar, alternately taking on the fly, each ship of the Allied squadron. Target taken on escort, air defense missile system ready for shooting! OK, the exercise is done perfectly, now carefully ... no, I said Carefully ... press the cancel button - and turn the radar in the other direction.

    Someone with a sleepy finger presses the wrong key - the command “Arm and tune” (fire to defeat) comes to the missile firing control panel. With a sharp clang, the launch container wall scatters, two anti-aircraft missiles, guided by a Mk.95 radar beam, rush towards the target. Who is the target? Oh shit, it's the Turkish destroyer Muavenet! Well, a person did not get enough sleep, you can understand.


    5 dead, 22 wounded - a Turkish warship was shot by the Allies during exercises as a rusty target. A terrible incident. The Turks take offense at their overlord and that's it.
    Uncle Sam gives Turkey a new ship - instead of a battered Muavenet (an old galosh, a former American destroyer from the Second World War), Turkish sailors receive another decommissioned frigate of the US Navy
  8. Sevastopol
    Sevastopol April 30 2013 09: 59
    +5
    Yes, a strong potential opponent, what can I say. It is necessary to strengthen the BSF, moreover, at an accelerated pace. Unfortunately, this has not yet been observed. There are plans ... But so far it hasn’t come to a conclusion.

    Quote: VohaAhov
    This article would be shown to our powerful "leaders". Let them compare with our Black Sea Fleet. Let's be fair if we say that the Black Sea Fleet is a flotilla of museum exhibits that do not represent a valuable military force.


    Well, you should not humiliate yourself. Moscow, Bora, Azov, this is actually serious. But few, of course. For me, so for a fleet in the Black Sea there would have been more ships of project 1239. Pieces 5 would not have been in the way, and pieces 5 of project 20380 (Steregushchiy). And the picture would have seriously changed.
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 10: 25
      +2
      Quote: Sevastopolets
      Moscow, Bora, Azov, this is actually serious. But few, of course. For me, so for a fleet in the Black Sea there would have been more ships of project 1239. Pieces 5 would not have been in the way, and pieces 5 of project 20380 (Steregushchiy). And the picture would have seriously changed.
      .
      Only not with ships alone - this is utopia. The Turkish Navy (within the framework of a NATO member) has the main task of controlling the straits, and not repeating the "Sevastopol wake-up call".
      The picture may change if, like the Turks, we can at any time transfer all the aviation of the Air Force to any theater of operations. They can. Graters with the Greeks do not count. Or they can ask NATO for help. Example: asked "Patriots" - they were driven in a short time, already from two countries. Although they have their own junk in bulk. 450 combat aircraft - 2012 estimate. Not only is it in bulk, it is also balanced and in a single ATCM and a single radar field.
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus April 30 2013 11: 10
      +3
      Quote: Sevastopolets
      It is necessary to strengthen the BSF, moreover, at an accelerated pace.

      The best reinforcement for the Black Sea Fleet is the heels of modern submarines with the possibility of launching the Kyrgyz Republic on ground targets. In the event of a conflict with NATO, they can survive on the first day of the war (unlike surface ships) and strike at targets in Turkey.
      Well, aviation needs to be strengthened, of course.
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm April 30 2013 12: 42
        0
        Quote: Odyssey
        The best gain for the Black Sea Fleet is the heels of modern submarines, and certainly with the possibility of launching missiles on ground targets.

        There is a proposal to modernize two nuclear submarines of pr.941 "Severstal" and "Arkhangelsk" for cruise missiles. The size of the mines allows for the placement of CR in two tiers. Submarines, with approximately 280 CR each, will be a powerful argument for relieving stress in the Mediterranean region.
        It seems that frigates for the Black Sea Fleet are being built at Yantar, they are planning to build 8 of them, pr.11356R / M, if I'm not mistaken.
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus April 30 2013 23: 49
          +1
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          There is a proposal to modernize two nuclear submarines of pr.941 "Severstal" and "Arkhangelsk" for cruise missiles. The size of the mines allows for the placement of CR in two tiers. Submarines, with approximately 280 CR each, will be a powerful argument for relieving stress in the Mediterranean region.

          If it will be realized, then this is for the SF and the Atlantic.
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          It seems that frigates for the Black Sea Fleet are being built at Yantar, they are planning to build 8 units of Project 11356R / M, if I am not mistaken

          6 pieces.What is being built for the Black Sea Fleet, and not for the Pacific Fleet or SF absurd
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 1 May 2013 22: 42
            0
            Quote: Odyssey
            If it will be realized, then this is for the SF and the Atlantic.

            Yes, for the SF, there is infrastructure, but a trip to the Mediterranean or to the water is quite possible if necessary. Russia simply does not have funds with such striking power, if you do not consider vigorous weapons, Norway and the Swedes will immediately calm down.
            Quote: Odyssey
            6 pieces.What is being built for the Black Sea Fleet, and not for the Pacific Fleet or SF absurd

            Yes, perhaps I was mistaken 6 on "Yantar" and 2 project 22350 at "Severnaya Verf" for the Black Sea Fleet For the Pacific Fleet "Mistral" and nuclear submarines they make, for the Northern Fleet nuclear submarines and etc. 22350
    3. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz April 30 2013 13: 14
      0
      In the Russian General Staff, not stupid people to sit rest assured!
      If they had seen the slightest danger from Turkey, they would have strengthened the Black Sea Fleet long ago!
      And not all ships of the Turkish fleet are World Cup
      1. Atrix
        Atrix April 30 2013 13: 35
        +3
        Quote: ayyildiz
        In the Russian General Staff, not stupid people to sit rest assured!
        If they had seen the slightest danger from Turkey, they would have strengthened the Black Sea Fleet long ago!
        And not all ships of the Turkish fleet are World Cup

        What will be strengthened? Are you playing a computer game? What are you building ships in a couple of hours? Now not even large ships in Russia are building on the 2-3 of the year, which is to say about large ships. And what does it mean that not all ships are in the World Cup as Turkey needs to transfer from Mediterranean bases to the Black Sea, I think much faster than the Baltic and the Northern Fleet.
        1. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz April 30 2013 13: 53
          0
          And in the SM are not Russian ships?
          1. Atrix
            Atrix April 30 2013 14: 20
            +1
            Quote: ayyildiz
            And in the SM are not Russian ships?

            Call me Russian ships that are constantly in the SM?
          2. Yeraz
            Yeraz April 30 2013 14: 45
            0
            Quote: ayyildiz
            And in the SM are not Russian ships?

            Hello friend, how are you? Yes, but so far they’ll be sailing and all that. Yes, and given the current pace of shipbuilding, and even Ukarin with a crtoy will not clearly allow the strengthening of this group and which ships.
            Although there is no danger to Turkey for Russia. If we take hypothetical threats, then China and a possible nuclear mullacratic Iran near the border carries a greater hypothetical threat than the Turkish fleet on the Black Sea.
            1. ayyildiz
              ayyildiz April 30 2013 17: 07
              0
              Quote: Yeraz
              If hypothetical threats are taken, then China and a possible nuclear mullacratic Iran near the border carries a greater hypothetical threat than the Turkish fleet on the Black Sea.

              Unfortunately, the Russian electorate has the opinion that if he is friends with the USA he is our enemy and if the enemy of the USA he is our friend!
  9. Delta
    Delta April 30 2013 10: 23
    -3
    The author writes:
    "Despite its regional status, the Turkish Navy is a well-balanced strike force."

    In this case, Kaptsov on the argument about balanced navy invariably surprised and answered with the question "with whom? with Georgia? with the USA?"
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 10: 28
      +7
      Damn, but always believed that the concept of balance is another. Bad, apparently, I was taught. I somehow thought that this was, first and foremost, a clear idea of ​​the tasks, as a result of the plans for building the fleet. It is possible easier: how much, what and why.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay April 30 2013 10: 53
        +5
        Quote: Kavtorang
        Bad, apparently, I was taught.

        You have certainly been correctly taught and probably very well!
  10. Odysseus
    Odysseus April 30 2013 10: 56
    +6
    Normal article. But the last phrase smiled.
    Ships of the Northern Fleet (which, by the way, there are very few left) breaking through the entire Atlantic and tightly closed straits to the aid of the Black Sea Fleet is an oil painting smile
    Apparently the author wanted to add "optimism"
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 11: 38
      +1
      Quote: Odyssey
      Ships of the Northern Fleet (which, by the way, there are very few left) breaking through the entire Atlantic and tightly closed straits to the aid of the Black Sea Fleet is an oil painting

      Well, I want people to believe in good things. I understand that neither you nor I will participate in this madness hi
    2. Santa Fe
      April 30 2013 13: 09
      +1
      Quote: Odyssey
      Ships of the Northern Fleet (which, by the way, there are very few left) breaking through the entire Atlantic and tightly closed straits to the aid of the Black Sea Fleet is an oil painting

      Why do SF ships pass the Bosphorus and Dardanelles? belay
      What have they forgotten in the "marquis puddle" of the Black Sea ??

      Black Sea is completely blocked by ground forces - aviation, ground-based air defense systems (the incident with the shooting down of an Israeli plane by the Ukrainian S-200), coastal complexes ("Bastion", "Bal", etc. - heh ... at least they should. Did they enter service in reasonable quantities - that's the question?). The fleet is there purely auxiliary and transport vehicle (BDK)

      But in the Mediterranean - is another matter. The Sixth Fleet and all NATO fleets are already sailing there, and the bulk of the Turkish fleet (Izmir Naval Forces) is concentrated there. Syria, Cyprus, the Balkans - with an increase in tension, SF ships can be involved. Which, in fact, is happening.

      The ships of the Northern Fleet entered the Mediterranean Sea. This was reported by the Information and Public Relations Service of the Northern Fleet. The passage of the strait was carried out in conditions of intensive shipping. The crews of the OBK ships of the Peter the Great heavy nuclear missile cruiser, the Admiral Chabanenko large anti-submarine ship and the SB-406 rescue tugboat crossed the Strait of Gibraltar and entered the Mediterranean Sea.
      Read more: http://www.arms-expo.ru/049057054048124052052049055.html
      1. Kavtorang
        Kavtorang April 30 2013 13: 40
        +1
        Thanks for the card. Maybe people get into what they are talking about and will not post nonsense. Here's how to find another person whose Atlas of the Seas and Oceans is scanned. I have a paper gift for demobilization, but to scan it is death (according to the format of the sheets).
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

        Why do SF ships pass the Bosphorus and Dardanelles? belay
        What have they forgotten in the "marquis puddle" of the Black Sea ??
        The Black Sea is completely blocked by ground forces [/ b] - aviation, ground-based air defense systems (the incident with the shooting down of an Israeli plane by the Ukrainian S-200), coastal complexes (Bastion, Bal, etc. - heh ... at least , should they have entered service in reasonable quantities - that's the question?). The fleet there is purely an auxiliary and a vehicle (BDK)

        But in the Mediterranean - is another matter. The Sixth Fleet and all NATO fleets are already sailing there, and the bulk of the Turkish fleet (Izmir Naval Forces) is concentrated there. Syria, Cyprus, the Balkans - with an increase in tension, SF ships can be involved. Which, in fact, is happening.

        The ships of the Northern Fleet entered the Mediterranean Sea. This was reported by the Information and Public Relations Service of the Northern Fleet. The passage of the strait was carried out in conditions of intensive shipping. The crews of the OBK ships of the Peter the Great heavy nuclear missile cruiser, the Admiral Chabanenko large anti-submarine ship and the SB-406 rescue tugboat crossed the Strait of Gibraltar and entered the Mediterranean Sea.
        Read more: http://www.arms-expo.ru/049057054048124052052049055.html

        Yes, yes, and I am about it. But who controls the Black Sea basin? The answer seems to be obvious. But the intertwining of the strike capabilities of the Moskva and Samum RKVP (what will they do in front of the straits - give the possibility of accurate targeting?), Mythical aviation, Balov and Bastion begins. But why is there, let's not forget about the "Coast". Only no one answers the question: why should the Turkish fleet do on our shores of that sea and expose itself to a possible blow? He has other tasks. Which ship caused the maximum damage in the Dardanelles operation in one combat exit, remind, or will there be experts?
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 30 2013 15: 53
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        But in the Mediterranean - another thing

        Well, what kind of Mediterranean sea? There are 4 naval surface ships of the far sea zone plus 7 nuclear submarines, and 3 submarines (except SSBNs) left in the Northern Fleet. All the ships are old. There are not enough ships to patrol their sea zone, and you are talking about the passage of Gibraltar ....
        The only and unique task that the SF can now solve is the deployment of SSBNs.
        I hope that with the advent of new / modernized nuclear submarines it will again be possible to talk about their breakthrough of the Faroe-Icelandic border.
        The Mediterranean Sea is now NATO’s inland sea, nothing to talk about.
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The ships of the Northern Fleet entered the Mediterranean Sea. This was reported by the Information and Public Relations Service of the Northern Fleet. The passage of the strait was carried out in conditions of intensive shipping

        In peacetime, ships of any fleet can enter at least the Mediterranean Sea, even the Indian Ocean.
  11. Kars
    Kars April 30 2013 10: 59
    +1
    I am only concerned about this item
    - 45 landing craft, including Osman Ghazni tank landing ship;

    And what's in the photo with the ramp boat or tank
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 11: 31
      +3
      From "Foreign Military Review" No. 7 -2011: 2 tank landing ships of the "Terribon Parish" type, 3 tank landing ships / minelayers (one "Osman Gazi" and two "Saruchabei"), 25 small landing ships of the LCU type. 1610 and 16 LCM-class landing boats.
      In the photo LCU-1610 (typical loading options): up to three tanks, up to 10 armored vehicles, up to 200 tons of cargo, up to 2 mouth MP (without armored vehicles).
    2. Santa Fe
      April 30 2013 12: 53
      +2
      Quote: Kars
      I am only concerned about this item

      Meet Xnumx Tanks

      NL-125 OSMAN GAZİ 27 Jul 1994

      Characteristics:
      Displacement: 3773 tons full load
      Dimensions: 105 x 16.1 x 2.3 meters
      Speed, Range: 17 knots, 4000 miles at 15 kts.
      Crew: 109 (9 officers)

      Weapons:
      Guns: 2 x 35mm / 90 (twin); 2 x 20 mm; 1 x Mk 15 Phalanx
      Helicopters: Platform for one large

      Sensors:
      Radars: Decca navigation

      Comments:
      She can carry 900 troops, 15 tanks and 4 LCVP's. She was bow doors but no dock. The two small doors at her stern is used for mine laying.

      He is also a mine layer!



      1. Kars
        Kars April 30 2013 13: 15
        +3
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Meet Xnumx Tanks

        then I feel calmer))) when they bring their Altai to mind))
        and 15 M60 and after the Jews mocked them we will survive.
        1. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz April 30 2013 13: 29
          +7
          This modernized M60 sabra tank
          1. Kars
            Kars April 30 2013 14: 01
            +2
            Quote: Kars
            Jews mocked them
            1. ayyildiz
              ayyildiz April 30 2013 14: 10
              +3
              And this is the Turkish modernization of LEO-2
              1. Kars
                Kars April 30 2013 14: 16
                +2
                I forgot about the cat, but did he really go into the series?
                1. ayyildiz
                  ayyildiz April 30 2013 16: 58
                  +3
                  At the end, 2012 should have started to upgrade!
                  1. Kars
                    Kars April 30 2013 19: 20
                    0
                    Quote: ayyildiz
                    At the end, 2012 should have started to upgrade!

                    May 2013 already
                    1. ayyildiz
                      ayyildiz April 30 2013 19: 31
                      +1
                      And that means modernization is in progress!
                      1. Kars
                        Kars April 30 2013 19: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: ayyildiz
                        And that means modernization is in progress!

                        And what is it like this without news, without announcing a contract, without information on the Rheinmetall website?
                      2. ayyildiz
                        ayyildiz April 30 2013 21: 02
                        +2
                        Rheinmetallowski L44 barrel is produced in Turkey under license, and the armor will be IBD! We started yet another 2 prototype
                      3. Kars
                        Kars April 30 2013 22: 56
                        0
                        Quote: ayyildiz
                        Rheinmetallowski barrel L44 is produced in Turkey under license

                        But not for the Altai? Or replacement and repair?
                        Quote: ayyildiz
                        , and the armor will be IBD

                        WILL it? It should already be)))) In Singapore already))
                        Quote: ayyildiz
                        We started 2 more prototypes

                        What did they start? Sculpt more prototypes? Or upgrade tanks from the Turkish Armed Forces? Where are the victorious reports about sending the first lots to the plant for modernization?
                      4. ayyildiz
                        ayyildiz April 30 2013 23: 20
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        ? Where are the winning stories about sending the first batches to the plant for modernization?


                        Leo 1 upgraded, were the winning reports?
                        There was information that they will upgrade with small batches!
                        I do not work at ASELSAN; I do not own detailed information.
                        and M60 Sabra not 15 but 170 pcs
                        hi
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 1 May 2013 12: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: ayyildiz
                        Leo 1 upgraded, were the winning reports?

                        Compare Leo 1 when it was. And the contract at a time of crisis for tank construction for a couple of billions of dollars.
                        Quote: ayyildiz
                        I do not work at ASELSAN; I do not own detailed information.

                        So you can’t say that the modernization of Turkish Leopards is carried out, especially in parallel with the attempt to master the Altai tank.
                        Quote: ayyildiz
                        and M60 Sabra not 15 but 170 pcs

                        it has no relation to the capacity of tank landing vessels.
  • Fuzeler
    Fuzeler April 30 2013 12: 10
    +7
    If the Turks are able to disable the Moskva RRC, then the Russian Black Sea Fleet has no chance at all. And as for naval aviation ... Hmm, but the Turks have it, don't they? No guys, patriotism is good, but you have to face the truth. The Turks are stronger than us, and now is not the time of Catherine the Great, when from a RAW tree, in one and a half or two years, it was possible to build a more or less combat-ready fleet to solve a different spectrum of tasks. But even under Mother Catherine, the Black Sea Fleet, although it won glorious victories, was never able to completely destroy the Turkish fleet (due to the quality of the ship's material, our ships were heavier than the Turkish ones and did not possess the proper maneuver, the only thing we won technically was ship artillery ).
    The Soviet Black Sea Fleet was able to drown the Turks with a minimum of losses (even taking into account the fact that the Soviet sailors called the Black Sea Fleet something like this: "chi fleet, chi navy"), but the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation does not have such power, but to build modern combat ships in the size of at least 15 units is not a matter of one and a half years.
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 12: 50
      +4
      Quote: Fuzeler
      If the Turks are able to disable the Moskva RRC, then the Russian Black Sea Fleet has no chance at all. And as for naval aviation ... Hmm, but the Turks have it, don't they? No guys, patriotism is good, but you have to face the truth.

      And that one RRC is a panacea for everything? Duck he has a BC for two volleys - two volleys of eight. All. What do you need something: to drown part of the Navy, or to cross the straits? Hope on "Fort" - will provide a stable cover? This is not true. Ask the Black Sea residents what condition he is in.
      The Turks do not have naval aviation in the sense that the USSR was in the USSR, but they have the air force aviation easily and simply become naval (in terms of work on naval targets) - it was originally made for this event for them.
  • datur
    datur April 30 2013 12: 21
    -2
    Turks are warriors !! joke! wink how many we had them !!!! wink but even then ,, these ,, warriors sponsored Europe !!! wink
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 12: 43
      +6
      And what did you want to prove with this spitch or what to say? Here, IMHO, not about Navarin and Sinop and not about the brig "Mercury". How else did the US State Department and Bolotnaya Square not dragged along? Here is the layout of forces in the theater, that's all. Or do you think that when the spell "The Black Sea Fleet of Russia" is cast (there, however, the flotilla is no longer recruited), the straits will open?
  • sergeschern
    sergeschern April 30 2013 12: 57
    0
    The question is not the topic: What kind of pact was in effect during the Second World War, that the Turks did not let the German navy through the straits? And the Germans on the Black Sea had only a "trifle" that they managed to carry along the Danube?
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 13: 09
      0
      Quote: sergeschern
      The question is not the topic: What kind of pact was in effect during the Second World War, that the Turks did not let the German navy through the straits? And the Germans on the Black Sea had only a "trifle" that they managed to carry along the Danube?

      Absolutely right. Acted. Like Spain, formally, it was neutral. Do not forget that the government of Ataturk was supported, at one time, by the USSR (with very large material "fits") and here, IMHO, we are talking about the return of debts, and not about compliance with the regime of the straits.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay April 30 2013 15: 32
        +2
        Quote: Kavtorang
        we are talking about the return of debts, and not about compliance with the regime of straits

        I do not agree!
        There was more politics!
        I will pass the Turks to the German fleet, in the eyes of the USSR it would be the entry of Turkey into the war !!
        1. Santa Fe
          April 30 2013 15: 35
          +3
          Quote: Yarbay
          I will pass the Turks to the German fleet, in the eyes of the USSR it would be the entry of Turkey into the war !!


          Interestingly, did anyone ask the Germans themselves for an opinion?))
          The Germans had virtually no naval forces in the Mediterranean. Italy? She had enough problems with the British fleet.
  • Fuzeler
    Fuzeler April 30 2013 13: 32
    +3
    Dear Kavtorang!
    When I spoke about the Moskva RRC, I meant that this warship is our main missile battery (sorry for the incorrectness), a ship that, in contact with the Turks (not in the sense of 1 RRC against the entire Turkish fleet, but in terms of when next to the cruiser there are also ships providing air defense and anti-aircraft defense) can cause significant damage to them. However, of course, sea battles alone are not enough: you also need to land amphibious assault forces, and this also requires fire support. Including from the air. Yes, we have attack aircraft of the Black Sea Fleet Navy, BUT even the Great Patriotic War showed that no matter how good the Il-2 is with Messerschmidt-109, it is very difficult for him to fight. And speaking of our Su-24 and Su-25, and given that the Ottomans will have a numerical superiority in aviation, I think the same situation will develop. Of course, a miracle (well, for whom a miracle, and for whom competent actions) is quite possible (remember at least Sinop), and I am personally sure that our naval sailors will fulfill their duty to the end, but I think that some of our interlocutors will deign to think in a haphazard way. which shouldn't. And, by the way, I absolutely agree with you: what is needed - to sink the iron, or to force the straits? In one jerk, in a short time (before the approach of the NATO fleet, only the fleet, I even keep quiet about aviation) we are not capable of this.

    Dear datur!
    Victories over the Turkish fleet were very, very difficult for our sailors. And if you turn your eyes to the History of our Fatherland, you will see that we never defeated their fleet once and for all. Yes, our sailors showed miracles: that in the 18th century, that in the 19th, but strategically complete defeat of the Ottoman Empire at sea, our ancestors could not achieve this.
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 April 30 2013 15: 31
    0
    Don’t say that, but the Turks are a serious opponent - there is only one way out: to improve the composition of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, there are no other options! The Turkish bloodthirsty Neanderthals raving about the restoration of the Ottoman Empire must be brought to their senses, otherwise the consequences for the region will be dire.
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city April 30 2013 16: 56
    +1
    Quote: Odyssey
    Why the hell is diplomacy? We have about 70 flight-friendly Su-27s of the 80s release left for the whole country. What comparison can be made with the Turkish Air Force? They are much stronger. And it is aviation southward.

    Well, you turned it down. By the way, nobody takes into account the coastal defense, but the Bastion complexes and the border cover the entire water area of ​​the ChM.Turks have nothing like that. The satellite system of the target is almost restored. In Voronezh there are 24 SU 34 and 4 in Lipetsk, the regiment of SU24 in the guards. Su34 ranges are enough and these are not old f4 and f16 which are also not the first freshness. The combat readiness of the Turkish air forces is not 100%. Even amers recognize that 22% of all F50s are ready. 636 boats for the Black Sea Fleet are just right and they also use the caliber.
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 17: 47
      0
      Coastal defense, Dear, just all sane people take into account. No one is going to challenge the feat of the 30th and 35th coastal batteries of Sevastopol. They also take into account aviation. Let's go through history: in 1941, we had a battleship on the Black Sea Fleet (not new, but modernized, no worse than the Turkish "Selim"), a brigade of cruisers, two brigades of destroyers and a lot of smaller ships and submarines. All this against a very weak Romanian fleet, which was very slightly reinforced by the Italians and Germans during the war. What this led to: by the time of the fall of Sevastopol, critical losses of the ship's composition had already been incurred, which could not be replenished. Until Romania's withdrawal from the war (more precisely, until the termination of the basing of German aircraft at its airfields), not a single large ship of the Black Sea Fleet went to sea under various pretexts.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov April 30 2013 17: 26
    0
    Quote: Ascetic
    Quote: VohaAhov
    then they realized it and sent a reconnaissance ship built on the basis of the trawler to the middle-earth.


    Plus the multipurpose nuclear submarine "Kursk" and the diesel "Varshavyanka" (kilo-black hole). "Kursk" was never found and "Varshavyanka" successfully drove the entire 6th fleet of the SySHA by the nose, distracting the enemy from the "Kursk" with its maneuvers. which allowed him to successfully carry out several simulations of the defeat of an American aircraft carrier ("Theodore Roosevelt" as far as I remember)


    Kursk arrived in the Mediterranean after the operation against Yugoslavia. At the same time, the second "Baton" - "Omsk" or "Tomsk" was operating in the Versida Gulf. I haven't heard of Varshavyanka.
  • ayyildiz
    ayyildiz April 30 2013 17: 57
    +2
    However, this is just a dream, in reality, the Turks are waiting for the transfer of the next frigates, excluded from the US Navy - USS Halyburton and USS Thanch (both - like "Oliver H. Perry").

    No, now America is not waiting. They wanted the modernization to take place with them for a lot of money and Turkey did not agree! In Turkey, his project is called TF-2000
  • DimYang
    DimYang April 30 2013 18: 35
    0
    I don’t know how the Turks have with the production of their own ships, but I kept the licensed MP-5 of Turkish manufacture. You know not the best copy. The store has a backlash in the longitudinal axis, some details are also not very well crafted. So, if they have the same production of their ships, then you should not exaggerate their power, but you should not relax. A bullet from around the corner or in the back can easily be obtained. But in general, the Dardanelles should be taken away from the Turks once and for all, but not to be given to any Bulgarians or Greeks there, these are still mongrels. And indeed, it would be geopolitically correct to divide Turkey (historically, they should not be there). There is such a theory about the development of history in a spiral. So it is necessary to complete the case of Prince Svetoslav Khorobroi. (he was not allowed to finish this internal enemies by the way, not external).
    1. Siberian
      Siberian 1 May 2013 07: 08
      +1
      Quote: dimyan
      And indeed, it would be geopolitically correct to divide Turkey (historically, they should not be there). There is such a theory about the development of history in a spiral. So it is necessary to complete the case of Prince Svetoslav Khorobroi. (he was not allowed to finish this internal enemies by the way, not external).


      In a spiral, say, well, well ... I think "Parade of sovereignty-2.0" has not been canceled either ... Don't dig a hole for your neighbor, as they say ...
      1. DimYang
        DimYang 1 May 2013 12: 28
        -2
        Nobody digs anything for them, they dig themselves. And the Persians and the Arabs will "help" them.
  • DimYang
    DimYang April 30 2013 19: 15
    -1
    I wonder who this "bold" minuses to the commentary put. Show up and explain yourself if you please.
    1. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz April 30 2013 19: 27
      +4
      I set!
      1. DimYang
        DimYang April 30 2013 21: 00
        0
        So are you turkish? If so, then I must understand that what I wrote is sure to happen (there is such reason to believe). And your minus once again confirms this. Turkey will disappear very soon. Think about it.
      2. DimYang
        DimYang April 30 2013 21: 04
        +1
        So are you turkish? If so, then I must understand that what I wrote is sure to happen (there is such reason to believe). And your minus once again confirms this. Turkey will disappear very soon. Think about it.
        1. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz April 30 2013 22: 26
          +3
          Tell these bedtime stories to your child!
          1. DimYang
            DimYang April 30 2013 23: 32
            0
            If you're talking about Turkish MP 5 like that, this is really a weapon that leaves much to be desired. And if about the disappearance of Turkey, then we did not conceive this matter. And your Western friends from NATO, or rather their puppeteers. It interferes with her Ottoman idea to build a more manageable Middle East (flirting with Kurdistan, a wait-and-see attitude in Cyprus, ... etc.) Well, when the time comes, Turkey will certainly be dismembered - partly to the Greeks, part to the Bulgarians, part to Russia ( Dardanelles), the rest will be sorted out. Believe with the Ayatols, they have long agreed to take the dardanelles and keep Russia, and even in the current state of forces will be enough. And in the near future and even more so. And by the way, a mosque in Constantinople is not a mosque at all.
            1. OTAKE
              OTAKE 1 May 2013 07: 59
              -1
              If you're talking about Turkish MP 5 like that, this is really a weapon that leaves much to be desired.

              I recently drove a taxi on Lada Kalina recently, I want to say that the build quality is poor, so if you have the same situation with weapons, then it’s not worth taking your words seriously

              And if about the disappearance of Turkey, then we did not conceive this matter. And your Western friends from NATO, or rather their puppeteers. She is very hindering with her Ottoman idea to build a more controlled Middle East (flirting with Kurdistan, a wait-and-see attitude in Cyprus, ... etc.) Well, when the time comes Turkey will definitely be divided

              So it interferes ... the formidable Turkey interferes with NATO countries so much that they bring the Patriots to it and sell tanks and aircraft licenses, cooperate in high-tech spheres ... they sleep and see, rather, this objectionable Turkey would disappear! And in the morning a couple more tanks will be thrown, to spite the Turks, probably lol

              Well, when the time comes, Turkey will certainly be divided - partly to the Greeks, part to the Bulgarians, part to Russia (the Dardanelles), the rest will be sorted out. They have long agreed with the Ayatols, to take the dardanels and retain Russia’s strength even in the current state. And in the near future and even more so. And by the way, a mosque in Constantinople is not a mosque at all.

              We stock up on popcorn and wait for the speedy collapse of Turkey, scream for 70 years, they will fall apart, these will disappear, divided there, America will fall apart, the EU will fall apart, Turkey will disappear, and they will survive 100 revolutions, 2 state collapse in less than 2 years, do you really think what downs are sitting across the ocean? or do they not know that Russia consists of 80 separate entities? So who is it that said about the collapse?
              1. DimYang
                DimYang 1 May 2013 11: 59
                -2
                Quote: OTAKE
                We stock up on popcorn and wait for the speedy collapse of Turkey, scream for 70 years, they will fall apart, these will disappear, divided there, America will fall apart, the EU will fall apart, Turkey will disappear, and they will survive 100 revolutions, 2 state collapse in less than 2 years, do you really think what downs are sitting across the ocean? or do they not know that Russia consists of 80 separate entities? So who is it that said about the collapse?


                Yeah, another Turk.
                Here I can say - dreaming is not harmful. Oh well.
                1. OTAKE
                  OTAKE 1 May 2013 12: 31
                  +5
                  Quote: dimyan
                  Yeah, another Turk.
                  Here I can say - dreaming is not harmful. Oh well.

                  Yes, I don’t seem to dream of anything) it’s through messages, then it’s picked up, it’s taken away, Constantinople is taken away, Darnanella is taken away, the Bosphorus to the Greeks, etc., etc.)
              2. DimYang
                DimYang 1 May 2013 12: 09
                -4
                Quote: OTAKE
                that they and "Patriots" bring it to her, and sell tanks, and licenses for aircraft, cooperate in high-tech spheres .. they sleep and see, rather, this objectionable Turkey would disappear! And in the morning a couple more tanks will be thrown, to spite the Turks, probably


                The patriots were definitely not brought to the Turks - as they brought it and they will take it away, the tanks will be thrown - so you said a couple, you say high-tech spheres - that is how it is called in Russian from more to less and only within the framework of the NATO treaty (they would have received nothing at all) and in general " osman "what are you doing in Russia?
                1. OTAKE
                  OTAKE 1 May 2013 12: 32
                  +4
                  Quote: dimyan
                  The patriots were definitely not brought to the Turks - as they brought it and they will take it away, the tanks will be thrown - so you said a couple, you say high-tech spheres - that is how it is called in Russian from more to less and only within the framework of the NATO treaty (they would have received nothing at all) and in general " osman "what are you doing in Russia?

                  The same as you are in Belarus) First, find out what companies and engineers work in Turkey and what projects they are involved in, and then say who is who.
                  1. DimYang
                    DimYang 8 May 2013 10: 18
                    0
                    I found out. (Opinion) Exercise control over too zealous
                    champions of the new Ottoman Empire. Since in the project of the owners of the biblical project, Turkey and especially the Ottoman Empire in Asia Minor does not appear. Whether the Turks survive as a state will to some extent depend on them. And Belarus is part of the Russian Empire after the USSR, where they speak the same language with Russia. Unlike the Turks, who do not recognize our culture, but only "cut money" in Russia, and in general it is not clear what they are doing here.
  • VDV 80-82
    VDV 80-82 April 30 2013 19: 36
    0
    Well, do not forget about the Iskanders in the Southern Federal District ... they will reach Turkey ... and I agree with a friend above ... it's time to take Constantinople to ourselves and steer the straits and the Middle East ourselves ... We are the Third Rome! But the Fourth isn’t enough (Boyar Duma) ... I don’t remember the year)))
    1. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz April 30 2013 19: 47
      -4
      You would save your lands in the east, otherwise soon the main population there will be Chinese!
      1. VDV 80-82
        VDV 80-82 April 30 2013 19: 53
        +1
        provide specific data on the seizure of the east by the Chinese
      2. torrnado
        torrnado 2 May 2013 00: 34
        -2
        And where are the Chinese in the east? I haven’t seen anything yet.
  • SPACE
    SPACE April 30 2013 20: 13
    +2
    ... "With a sharp clang, the wall of the launch container flies apart, two anti-aircraft missiles, guided by the Mk.95 radar beam, rush towards the target. Who is the target? Oh shit, this is the Turkish destroyer Muavenet!" ...
    It is unclear whether the author lied toli, the roofing felts Turkish craps are full of shit, the two anti-aircraft missiles cost them, (maybe they have a missile defense?) Is it something I don’t have?
    1. Santa Fe
      April 30 2013 21: 37
      +1
      Quote: SPACE
      Toli Turkish caravans full shit, two anti-aircraft missiles they price, (maybe they have a missile defense?)

      What exactly surprises you?))
      Turkish destroyer couldn’t shoot down missiles?

      A short story about the victim "Mauvenet":
      Formerly. US destroyer (mine layer) USS Gwin (DD-33). Laid down in 1943, launched in April 1944
      In 1971, sold to Turkey.

      Well, what else do you want from a half-century bucket? so that he can intercept targets flying at three speeds of sound? SAMs were literally point blank - there was no time for reaction.

      Two hits of anti-aircraft missiles - the superstructure was destroyed, part of the crew was injured. As a result of the incident, the old destroyer Mauvenet was scrapped.

      RIM-7 Sea Sparrow
      Weight - 230 kg
      Airspeed ~ 3,5M
      Spectacle warhead weighing 40 kg
      1. SPACE
        SPACE 1 May 2013 06: 19
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Turkish destroyer couldn’t shoot down missiles?

        No, that’s just what doesn’t surprise me, even if they are three times alert, the result will be the same.
        What surprises me the most, even it does not surprise, but I am particularly interested in the actions of the Americans, firstly the possibility of pointing anti-aircraft missiles on ships., Secondly, the possibility of using anti-aircraft systems as percussion. I previously argued on the site, not without thoroughly, that PRO IJIS has impact properties.
        In general, this case clearly characterizes both the Americans and the Turks, for some "... who threw a tarpaulin on the remote control" for others, in general, as usual ...
        ZY
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Formerly. US destroyer (mine layer) USS Gwin (DD-33). Pledged in 1943, launched in April 1944. In 1971, sold to Turkey.

        Someone ships from the forties serve and are proud of them, but we have "THOSE" who are EAGLES from 80, they manage to call them old and bezpontovy.
        1. Santa Fe
          1 May 2013 14: 32
          +2
          Quote: SPACE
          the ability to aim anti-aircraft missiles on ships., and secondly, the ability to use anti-aircraft systems as shock.

          SAMs were used even for firing at GROUND targets

          RIM-8H is an anti-radar version of the heavy RIM-8 Talos missile defense system, occasionally used in Vietnam by US Navy ships to fire at ground-based radars (firing range ~ 180 km).

          The Talos modification with nuclear warheads was supposed to be used to clear the coast before the landing.
          A fierce toy, will fall - it will not seem a little
  • laurbalaur
    laurbalaur April 30 2013 21: 20
    -5
    The author, smoked something wrong today! What is the strike by the Sea Sparrow complex on the surface ship, what is the armed and tune team? Are you guys a fifth grader story? I'm shocked!
    1. Santa Fe
      April 30 2013 22: 08
      +2
      Quote: laurbalaur
      What is the impact of the Sea Sparrow complex on a surface ship?

      What could be the problem?
      The semi-active GOS of an anti-aircraft missile does not matter what the signal is reflected from - from an airplane or a superstructure of a ship going in direct line of sight.
      Quote: laurbalaur
      I'm in shock!

      Amer and Turks themselves were in shock
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 1 May 2013 05: 27
      0
      French SAM Tartar on surface targets
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 1 May 2013 14: 25
        0
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCydcNowYMY [media=http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCydcNowYMY]Си Спэрроу по радиоуправляемому катеру
      2. tlauicol
        tlauicol 1 May 2013 14: 27
        0
        Sea Sparrow on a radio-controlled boat. Missed, by the way the first time :))
  • misterwulf
    misterwulf April 30 2013 21: 31
    0
    I liked the pictures ...
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 April 30 2013 22: 46
    +1
    no matter what their fleet is. they have an ally all NATO unit
  • Anti
    Anti April 30 2013 22: 53
    -2
    Small-tonnage Iranian submarines are shock, awe and horror of the entire Turkish fleet. lol
    1. Windbreak
      Windbreak 1 May 2013 11: 07
      +3
      Iranian small-tonnage submarines have a small sailing range, which is why they can only operate in their coastal waters. The Mediterranean Sea is not a puddle and normal Turkish submarines will have an advantage
      1. Anti
        Anti 1 May 2013 11: 31
        -1
        Nothing to worry about, on bulk carriers they’ll throw it where necessary. Turks already stocked with diapers just in case wink
  • DimYang
    DimYang 1 May 2013 12: 03
    0
    Quote: dimyan
    Quote: OTAKE
    We stock up on popcorn and wait for the speedy collapse of Turkey, scream for 70 years, they will fall apart, these will disappear, divided there, America will fall apart, the EU will fall apart, Turkey will disappear, and they will survive 100 revolutions, 2 state collapse in less than 2 years, do you really think what downs are sitting across the ocean? or do they not know that Russia consists of 80 separate entities? So who is it that said about the collapse?


    Yeah, another Turk.
    Here I can say - dreaming is not harmful.
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 2 May 2013 15: 09
    0
    Dear cautorangian, I didn’t mean the opinions of specialists, but comments on this matter. But in my opinion you can’t compare a conventional weapon, albeit a powerful one, with a homing missile with a range of 300 km and with super sound of the third stage (from the modification). By the way, Harpoon and Exoset are subsonic For aviation, I meant lowering the capabilities of our aviation and exalting the Turkish. And you can not compare the total volley of our fleet and the Turkish simply missiles of different weight categories in many respects. Our anti-aircraft missiles can also work on ships and wasp and s3f (c300 missile is quite similar to a harpoon.
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang 3 May 2013 05: 02
      0
      [quote = 1c-inform-city] you can’t compare a conventional weapon, albeit a powerful one, with a homing missile with a range of 300 km and with an extra sound of the third stage (from the modification). By the way, Harpoon and Exoset are subsonic. [/ quote]
      And the developers of cannon artillery systems will turn a lot of their arguments on your head (I'm talking about the "Coast" complex, which is in service). And their logic is clear to me: the landing areas of the coast are known, the position of each installation is pre-calculated and tied in a coordinate system, you can open fire to kill without zeroing in. The cost of the HE shell is not comparable to the cost of a guided missile [
      quote = 1c-inform-city] In aviation, I meant lowering the capabilities of our aviation and exalting Turkish. [/ quote]
      And what is there to magnify or belittle? 450 combat aircraft, of which half is the F-16C / D. The territory of Turkey itself allows their General Staff to quickly maneuver their Air Force. How long does it take us to redeploy a pair of squadrons? [Quote = 1c-inform-city] you can’t compare the total volley of our fleet and Turkish just missiles of different weight categories in many ways. Our anti-aircraft missiles can also work on ships and wasp and s300f (c300 missile is quite similar to harpoon. [/ quote]
      What is the final conclusion? Will the Black Sea Fleet pass through the straits or die heroically?
  • PSih2097
    PSih2097 3 May 2013 03: 26
    0
    "All inclusive". Turkish Fleet Overview
    after reading the comments I got the impression "boss, everything is gone" ...
    number of times - volcanoes on the "Moskva" RRC (that is, P1000, they are also 3m70) 350 Kt Yabch, 0.5 t F-Kbch, and you don't even need to leave the road to strike Turkey;
    number two - target designation for them can be done both by special forces and the A-50; in other matters, no one canceled satellites either;
    number three - the same Antey of project 949A from the Mediterranean Sea, and since the mess in Syria is still happening (and in the Persian Gulf it’s not ice), who will guarantee that there are no nuclear submarines on duty for this project ...
    the list can go on endlessly, but it all depends on the GDP, whether it can give a tough fight back to the south (Syria, Iran) or wait for the south to crawl into our house with all its attributes - explosions, killings, kidnapping for ransom and not only ... We have seen all these attributes in Chechnya.
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang 3 May 2013 05: 12
      0
      Quote: PSih2097
      number of times - volcanoes on the "Moskva" RRC (that is, P1000, they are also 3m70) 350 Kt Yabch, 0.5 t F-Kbch, and you don't even need to leave the road to strike Turkey;

      You may not go out, but you are on the territory of another state. Who will allow you to carry the SBS for "Moscow" through the territory of Nezalezhnaya? Are you in general familiar with the work of "tadpoles" units?
      Well, with the target designation, specifically, I agree with Turkey. But why? Already asked a question: Do your straits open after a vigorous volley?
      Quote: PSih2097
      who will guarantee that there are no nuclear submarines on duty for this project ..

      I’ll vouch, I don’t think that life will change so much and we have built new boats and left on the database.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 3 May 2013 05: 19
        +1
        Nuclear weapons prohibited in Sevastopol
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 3 May 2013 10: 42
    0
    Maybe I didn’t understand. But this is about the confrontation on the Black Sea, and not about breaking through the straits, this is exactly what I had in mind. The number of Turkish air forces is a matter of technical readiness. F16 from Turkey is quite old and the bulk were purchased like ships would be. If you count all that we have will turn out to be a beautiful figure too. Even the Amers have a bunch of squadrons only on paper, but in real life they are completely not ready. I don’t think that the Turks are any cooler.
  • ayyildiz
    ayyildiz 3 May 2013 17: 43
    +2
    New equipment from OTOCAR
  • ayyildiz
    ayyildiz 3 May 2013 17: 46
    +1
    2 COBRA by OTOCAR
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 3 May 2013 20: 01
    -1
    Namely, the experience of the previous war, and the current difficulties with updating the Black Sea Fleet due to the unresolved nature of many Russian-Ukrainian languages. issues put the Turkish fleet on the first step of the Black Sea dominance.
  • imperiolist
    imperiolist 28 July 2013 11: 51
    0
    why compare small-scale tourism with Russia, if there is a war even with whom our people will rise again, and will fight, and will stand up for machines. During the war, the production of military equipment grows exponentially, and our equipment is the best (I advise fans of no-foot equipment better to study ours)
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 27 November 2013 17: 26
    0
    The tourists, including Russian tourists, brought in billions of dollars, including the money they were able to create their own strong regional fleet.
  • Dimka off
    Dimka off April 20 2014 14: 31
    0
    that with increasing tension, ships of the Northern Fleet will arrive in the region and the Turkish fleet will simply dissolve against the background of this power.

    It will only be necessary to strengthen the PLO group. And aviation will cope with the surface fleet. At what using not the most powerful X-35 missiles.
  • Seasoned22
    Seasoned22 7 January 2016 13: 52
    +1
    Interestingly, they kept Geben.
  • Alexey Antonov
    Alexey Antonov 13 December 2017 11: 23
    +1
    Compare the Turkish Navy with the Black Sea Fleet? It’s ridiculous. Rather, why only the ship’s composition is compared?
    I will explain. As you know, during the Great Patriotic War (World War II, if you like) the Black Sea Fleet possessed absolute superiority over all the fleets of all the Black Sea states that took part in the war, and over the German fleet on the Black Sea.
    So what? The losses of the Black Sea Fleet were so great in comparison with the enemy fleets that since 1943 large surface ships did not protrude from the bases at all until the end of hostilities.
    And why not?
    Yes, all because of the main striking force at the time at sea - aviation. According to which the enemy had absolute superiority.
    Someone, perhaps, imagines a naval confrontation between the Russian Navy and the Turkish Navy (and the US Navy and other NATO member states), obviously, like the Sinop (Tsushima, Yuland) battle: two squadrons (fleets) will go to sea and let's shoot each other - who whom! Those "experts" who think so (and there are most of them) can only be advised on one thing: play Sea Battle in a notebook.
    But in reality, the Red Banner Black Sea Fleet, in order to destroy the Turkish fleet completely, will not even need to leave the bases. Missiles from ships, ARVs and KChF aviation will do their job.