Military Review

The war of the French and German submarines

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DCNS and the General Arms Directorate (DGA) have announced a high level of readiness at the commercial units. There is concern that Singapore, which has traditionally focused on French arms procurement companies and recently purchased Aster 30 ground-to-air missiles from MBDA, may opt for German submarines. Singapore has flotilla of the six diesel-electric submarines acquired from the Swedish Navy, but some of them are 35 years old. The German concern ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) and DCNS have made an offer to Singaporeans, but TKMS has a representative office in Singapore, and it seems that its position looks more stable. The victory of the Germans may call into question secret military cooperation between France and Singapore, especially in the field of electronic warfare and missile defense, but also in aviation area: France is currently training a small group of Singaporean pilots on Rafale fighters.



Submarine project 212A

The interests of TKMS and DCNS also crossed in Australia, the government of which expects to replace obsolete Collins-type submarines, which also require constant repairs. Australians need submarines that can make long-range crossings and, moreover, are capable of launching intercontinental missiles (as the text probably means cruise missiles that can hit ground targets. - note P.2). TKMS has already designed a similar boat: it’s about Dolphin-type diesel-electric submarines, which the concern sold to Israel, equipped with missiles with nuclear warheads.

The last battlefield between the two shipbuilding holdings is Canada, where the Conservative government, under the leadership of Stephen Harper (Stephen Harper), intends to acquire submarines with enhanced characteristics in order to establish its sovereignty in the Arctic. Today, Canada has only four diesel-electric submarines, acquired from the presence of the UK in the 1990-s, whose maintenance is very burdensome. Only one of the four diesel-electric submarines - Victoria is in service. Two more, Windsor and Chicoutimi, are undergoing trial operation after repair, and the last - Corner Brook has touched the ocean floor during the dive and is decommissioned.
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  1. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 April 29 2013 12: 46 New
    +4
    Germans of Franks will “do” and Franks will have to eat raw frogs from anger lol
    1. Russian
      Russian April 29 2013 13: 46 New
      0
      I wonder why our submarines do not participate in the tender? After all, this kind of participation shows the competitiveness of our country in this industry.
      Oh, got it! The member countries of NATO, or their supporting ones, are probably not letting us in, and arming the allies of our potential enemy is not an ice.
      Yes, and our fleet must be updated actively!
      1. Don
        Don April 29 2013 14: 25 New
        +5
        Unfortunately, we are a bit behind in the VNEU system (non-volatile power plant), so our submarines objectively lose to German and French. I hope that soon we will close this gap and then our Ladas with VNEU will at least be no worse than the NATO ones.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply April 29 2013 16: 37 New
        +4
        Do not dig so deep. It’s just that at the moment the Germans and Swedes are building the highest quality and most advanced non-nuclear submarines.

        To be more specific, there are three main types of such boats at the moment.

        Submarines with full electric propulsion: the main mover is an electric motor powered by developed batteries. The batteries are recharged in the above-water position or at the periscope depth (when air enters through the mine shaft) using a diesel generator, which requires a relatively small amount of fuel for operation, and which compares favorably with diesel engines by several times smaller dimensions, which is achieved by increasing nominal revolutions of shaft rotation and failure of reversibility. Such submarines are being built in Russia and some other countries.

        Fuel cell submarines are an improvement on the full electric propulsion scheme. Oxygen-hydrogen fuel cells are used to drive the economic move. Their work is almost silent, which can dramatically reduce the noise of the submarine. Such boats are designed in Germany and are produced for their own needs, for Italy, and for South Korea (project 212, project 214).

        Diesel-Stirling-electric submarines - their distinctive feature is the use of the Stirling system for the economical running of the engine, which allows saving battery power and drastically increasing the time spent continuously under water without surfacing. They are the know-how of Sweden, the leading manufacturer of such ships is the company Kockums (type "Gotland").
        Modern non-nuclear submarines are distinguished by low noise (when moving from AB or fuel cells), relative ease of maintenance, maneuverability, and due to these qualities they can approach small nuclear submarines in combat effectiveness. In addition to conventional torpedo weapons, cruise missiles or even sometimes ballistic missiles are often used on them.
        The capabilities of Stirling's anaerobic engines were demonstrated during two exercises in the Atlantic in 2003, when the Swedish Halland (Gotland type) “defeated” a Spanish submarine in a duel with a conventional diesel-electric installation, and then the French nuclear submarine. In the Mediterranean, Halland prevailed in a “duel” with the US nuclear submarine USS Houston (Los Angeles type). At the same time, the cost of Halland was 4,5 times lower than its nuclear rivals.

        Here are, in general, the reasons.
        1. atalef
          atalef April 29 2013 18: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          Do not dig so deep. It’s just that at the moment the Germans and Swedes are building the highest quality and most advanced non-nuclear submarines.

          Todaya-Ministry of Defense and the IDF held a ceremony to receive the new submarine "Rahav", descended from the stocks of the shipyard in Kiel. This is the fifth submarine of the Dolphi class (Dolphin), made in Germany for the Israeli Navy.

          The ceremony was attended by the Director General of the Israeli Defense Ministry, Udi Shani, the commander of the Navy Ram Rotenberg and several other officers.

          A new submarine is due to arrive on the shores of Israel in the coming year. Experts note that the Rahav is one of the most modern submarines in the world, both in design and equipment, and in terms of weaponry.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 29 2013 20: 06 New
            +1
            Yes, modified project 212. More precisely, there is a mixture of 212 and 214.

            "Something between 214 and 212. It has 3 decks, like 212 (214 of 2), but the VNEU tanks have the same arrangement as 212. It also has X rudders like 212. The displacement of the Dolphin 2 is significantly larger than both: 2300 tons versus 1860 tons for 214 and 1830 tons for 212. Which makes it the most powerful submarine of German production. And most likely the most powerful non-nuclear submarine in the world "(c)

            [img] http://waronline.org/fora/index.php?attachments/image-359067-galleryv9-domu
            -jpg.798 [/ img]


            [img] http://waronline.org/fora/index.php?threads/Underwater- boats-d
            olphin-dolphin. 81 / page-2 [/ img]
      3. APASUS
        APASUS April 29 2013 19: 14 New
        +2
        Quote: р_у_с_с_к_и_й
        I wonder why our submarines do not participate in the tender?

        Because when the whole world built boats, cars, motors - we listened to Gorbachev's fables !!
  2. avt
    avt April 29 2013 12: 54 New
    +4
    Quote: Speckled32
    Germans of Franks will “do” and Franks will have to eat raw frogs from anger

    Well, not a fact. request This is not about the quality of the projects, but about who will bring more and who has more influence agents. One word - European politician, big politician. VO, like three words happened laughing
  3. Reasonable, 2,3
    Reasonable, 2,3 April 29 2013 13: 03 New
    +2
    I can’t understand. Singapore is a territory smaller than the Moscow region. There are no enemies. They have more modern weapons of all classes than Australia.
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 29 2013 13: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: Reasonable, 2,3
      I can’t understand. Singapore is a territory smaller than the Moscow region. There are no enemies. They have more modern weapons of all classes than Australia.
      Since they have a lot of money, and the one who saves money does not skimp on security ...
    2. Pimply
      Pimply April 29 2013 16: 51 New
      +1
      They have no enemies for one simple reason - from the very moment of independence they built an effective and full-fledged army. Malaysia and Indonesia are still nearby.
  4. Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 April 29 2013 13: 12 New
    0
    Well, as always, nothing personal is just a business. A relationship built over years of fruitful cooperation on the side. Arming Canada with modern weapons is a serious danger to Russia.
    1. Nymp
      Nymp April 29 2013 13: 18 New
      0
      If our (Russian) fleet will be on top, nothing! We are not shy. Hedgehog is clear against whom they are arming! Gentlemen do not like the fact that Russia falls out of the list of slaves. This is not a bad indicator when a conditional opponent is activated, which means that he begins to take us seriously. wink
  5. Nymp
    Nymp April 29 2013 13: 13 New
    +1
    Well, Western jackals are snatched from each other a piece of meat fatter, the lion above the jackal showdown! Russia what ??? winked
  6. SSR
    SSR April 29 2013 13: 39 New
    +1
    Australians need submarines that can make long crossings and besides, capable of launching intercontinental missiles (for example, the text probably refers to cruise missiles that can hit ground targets. - Note A.2).

    It would seem that why such a boat would probably be threatened by an “unfriendly” “Norway / Georgia” to the Australians ....
    (against China imha is not enough)

    TKMS has already designed a similar boat: we are talking about a submarine type Dolphin, which the concern sold to Israel, equipped with missiles with nuclear warheads.

    ))) but nevertheless, Israel still does not recognize the presence of nuclear weapons))
  7. atalef
    atalef April 29 2013 14: 05 New
    +4
    Germany did not sell nuclear missile missile boats to Israel. Just have two calibers of torpedo tubes. 533 mm and 650 mm / There are 2 650 mm devices on the dolphin; they are suitable for firing KR for submarines /
    Search radar (surface) - "Elta", I-band
    Integrated fire and sensor control system - STN / Atlas Electrons ISUS 90-1 TCS
    Electronic Intelligence System - Timneh 4CH (V) 2 of Elbit
    Sonar - Atlas Electronsik ЦСУ 90, built-in housing, passive / active, low-frequency, search and attack; Atlas Electrons PRS-3, passive, rangefinder (rank); airborne antennas FAS-3, passive, search; noise analysis system
    Periscopes - 2, Kollmorgen firms (search and attack)
    With a range of autonomous navigation of 8 miles, they are equipped with Israeli-made cruise missiles with a flight radius of 000 miles (about 950 km) [1500]. According to the Military Technology, these missiles can also be equipped with nuclear warheads. [7] [8]

    almost all weapons systems (except the boat itself) of Israeli production
  8. USNik
    USNik April 29 2013 14: 53 New
    +1
    There are 2 650 mm devices on the dolphin. They are suitable for shooting submarines.

    I understand that horizontal nose torpedo tubes are meant? If so, how will the torpedoes launched by them be "intercontinental"? The presence of nuclear weapons does not imply their means of delivery, especially over a couple of thousand kilometers.
    1. sergius60
      sergius60 April 29 2013 17: 21 New
      +1
      Cruise missiles in containers start horizontally, then at a speed they come up at an angle to the surface, the launch of the CR. Flight range 1500 km + range of the submarine itself 14 km (the same 800 miles) / 8000 = 2 km. 9 000 km. It’s enough for anyone to send “last greetings”. In fact, we have "intercontinentalism." And who cares about the ways?
      Specifically, you will be very worried about the cruise missile arriving "on a visit", launched from under water, from a ground installation, from an airplane or ship?
      1. USNik
        USNik April 30 2013 16: 35 New
        0
        Cruise missiles in containers start horizontally, then at a speed they float at an angle to the surface, the launch of the Kyrgyz Republic
        There is no time to search the Internet, please share the link, I honestly didn’t read about it, although I try to keep abreast of all the available news.
  9. Vtel
    Vtel April 29 2013 15: 27 New
    0
    and the latter, Corner Brook, touched the ocean floor during a dive and was decommissioned.

    Our people are everywhere - fighters of the invisible front. One boat is minus, small, but nice. And the ocean floor is aligned, probably a boat without brakes.
    1. sergius60
      sergius60 April 29 2013 17: 33 New
      0
      "Few". QUARTER OF THE UNDERGROUND NAVY IN MINUS. Well, you are greedy. lol
  10. Tolik.
    Tolik. 975 April 29 2013 18: 37 New
    +1
    Thanks to the author for the article. I learned a lot about the underwater confrontation between the two powers. And the submarine from the tail is good :)
  11. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs April 29 2013 19: 05 New
    0
    "we are talking about a submarine type Dolphin, which the group sold to Israel, equipped with missiles with nuclear warheads."
    Nonsense. Even if Germany builds these boats, it will obviously fail to equip them with nuclear warhead missiles (non-nuclear power status). Israel can independently develop such missiles and equip them with nuclear warheads, but this is tantamount to official recognition of the presence of nuclear weapons, and Israel avoids this in every possible way.
  12. 12061973
    12061973 April 29 2013 19: 48 New
    0
    Japan builds a dap, but they don’t sell to anyone secret like if someone enlighten in the subject.
    1. Windbreak
      Windbreak April 29 2013 21: 50 New
      +1
      Japan until recently had a ban on the export of any weapons
      1. 12061973
        12061973 April 29 2013 23: 57 New
        0
        You can buy, you can not sell, where is the logic.
      2. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm April 30 2013 21: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Burel
        Japan until recently had a ban on the export of any weapons

        Recently, the economic difficulties facing the Land of the Rising Sun have been forcing the Japanese to slowly lift such restrictions, and there are no obstacles to entering the US-2 arms market. In November 2011, it was officially stated that, although the aircraft was military, it was unarmed and, therefore, its sales abroad did not fall under the arms export ban.
        He seems to have stayed.