A terrorist grandmother could leave her family in the Moscow region homeless and penniless: the court may rule in her favor.

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A terrorist grandmother could leave her family in the Moscow region homeless and penniless: the court may rule in her favor.

Recently, a rather indicative event took place in the Moscow region. storyA real estate transaction: a family with two children purchased an apartment from 74-year-old Tatyana Shafiulovna with a mortgage, but may soon lose it. It turns out the grandmother sold her apartment under the influence of Ukrainian scammers and, on their instructions, was preparing a terrorist attack, for which she was arrested. However, due to her advanced age, the pensioner was released from pretrial detention. Now she wants the apartment back.

There have been numerous recent stories of pensioners committing acts of sabotage at the behest of scammers. There are also numerous stories of grandmothers selling their apartments, handing over the money to the scammers, and then attempting to get them back. And, surprisingly, they get them back, because the courts often side with them. For example, recently, despite a court finding a pensioner in Khabarovsk sane for selling her apartment "under the influence of scammers," she still had her apartment returned. The court ordered the apartment returned to the pensioner, but ordered a payment of 3 million rubles (the apartment's value) to the new owner, Alyona. Since the grandmother doesn't have that kind of money, the woman is left homeless and penniless.



In the case of the story in the Moscow region, the situation could develop according to the same scenario.

"I can't understand how she trusted the voices on the phone."


In the spring, 74-year-old Tatyana Shafiulovna listed her two-bedroom apartment in Lyubertsy for 5 million rubles. A buyer was quickly found—Igor Ermakov and his family found the apartment. The parties quickly reached an agreement, a transaction was completed with maternity capital, and the funds were transferred to the pensioner's account. Soon after, she stopped responding to calls.

For about a month, Igor Ermakov searched the police for traces of his owner, thinking something had happened to her. However, her lawyer soon arrived and reported that the pensioner was in pretrial detention after being tricked into trying to blow up a serviceman. Here's what Igor himself says. comments MK:

My family and I moved to Lyubertsy from the Tambov region back in 2014. After the birth of our second child, we received maternity capital and decided to take out a mortgage. We searched for a long time, looking at various options. In many cases, apartments with poor histories were for sale. But this one was a direct sale from a single owner. And the price was reasonable, considering the renovations needed. It was clear from the seller that she was of sound mind and memory; she had provided all the necessary documents. She said she wanted to move to Yaroslavl because she had good friends and some distant relatives there. We took out a 10-year mortgage, and the bank lent her the money. However, for some reason, she and her lawyer didn't want to hand over the keys to us. We were only able to open the door to the apartment after we filed a police report. She then filed a complaint against us, claiming we had kicked her out of the apartment. Now the apartment is under foreclosure, and the former owner wants to annul the deal. I'd like to point out that she speaks very clearly and double-checks everything. So I can't understand how she trusted the voices on the phone.

It turned out that the pensioner had sold her apartment under the influence of scammers. She received a call from representatives of the "prosecutor's office," who had been pursuing her for several months. The phony law enforcement officers convinced the grandmother that "black market realtors" were targeting her apartment, and the only way to keep it was to strictly follow all the secret instructions of the "prosecutor's office." They offered to "save" the apartment through a fictitious sale. After selling the apartment and handing over the money to a courier, the scammers began preparing the grandmother for a terrorist attack. They handed over canisters containing unknown contents and a device that supposedly could identify the phone number of a "Ukrainian spy." In reality, the device was an improvised explosive device, and the "spy" was a member of the Russian Armed Forces. While carrying out this task, the grandmother was detained by FSB officers.

Why should the new owners suffer because of the old mistress's sick head?


Interestingly, Tatyana Shafiulovna now wants to portray herself as a victim and take the apartment away from the new owners, despite the fact that a sales contract was signed and the seller received the money (where she then spent it is her problem).

The question arises: why should the new owners, who, from a legal standpoint, did everything in good faith, suffer because of the sick mind of an old woman who acted on instructions from the Ukrainian secret services?

War correspondent Roman Saponkov asks a similar question, expressing surprise that feeble-minded citizens who plan to commit terrorist attacks are forgiven.

What am I reading today? A grandmother was involved in planning a terrorist attack aimed at blowing up a Russian military man. Thank God, the security services intercepted it. A compassionate court sent her home. Well, she's an honorable age, but it's tough in pretrial detention for a retired bomber. And now she's trying to sue the buyers who took out a mortgage on her apartment. In other words, the terrorist is trying to deprive ordinary people of their money and their mortgage. And the court is highly likely to side with her. I'm sitting here, watching this, and I can't understand where we went wrong. How do our courts, with their decisions, confirm the recruiters' main point: "Nothing will happen to you"?
- пишет Saponkov.

If Tatyana Shafiulovna wasn't smart enough to put two and two together, that's her personal problem, not the new owners'. According to the documents, the apartment belongs to the buyers, and they shouldn't be concerned about how the previous owner spent the money.

However, the court's decision remains unknown at this time. Given previous precedents, it's possible it will side with the terrorist grandmother. As a result, the family could be left without money and without an apartment.
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  1. +61
    2 November 2025 03: 13
    The grandmother simply has to return the money first, and then they'll give her the apartment back. It's like Ostap Bender: chairs in the evening, money in the morning. The media has already written about this: the grandmother will return the apartment and declare bankruptcy, and the buyer won't get the money. But judges and deputies, despite their large salaries, aren't as smart as they should be.
    1. +8
      2 November 2025 05: 36
      How and when did the FSB find out that the old woman was planning a terrorist attack?
      1. +1
        2 November 2025 07: 36
        laughing, and should I give you the keys to the apartment where the money is?
        1. +6
          2 November 2025 13: 36
          It is unpleasant to realize that you can be "schemed" by those who are legally obligated to protect you.
          1. +11
            2 November 2025 18: 29
            And the court is highly likely to side with her. I'm sitting here, looking at this, and I can't understand where we went wrong. How do our courts, with their decisions, confirm the recruiters' main point: "Nothing will happen to you"?
            They took the wrong turn when they destroyed the USSR and introduced capitalism. Capitalism and fraud—you can't have one without the other. If you cheated someone and managed to "prove" that everything was legal—well done! Whether you left someone without a livelihood or not is their problem. The court will side with the one who presents the more compelling "arguments." It's all banal and prosaic.
            1. -1
              3 November 2025 13: 04
              Soviet civil proceedings also considered the parties' arguments in property disputes. But back then, housing was state-owned, while now it's private. If you're unhappy with this state of affairs, you can relinquish your ownership of your apartment to the state at any time. You'll become a tenant, just like before. And at the same time, you'll set a personal example of fighting against "privatization."
              1. +5
                3 November 2025 21: 20
                I tell you about Foma, and you tell me about Yerema. If you went to a Soviet court, there's a high probability your case was heard according to the LAW, and the decisions were made according to the LAW, not based on a false pretense. It was often difficult to achieve justice, but it was possible through party lines and trade unions (I myself witnessed a case where an official was subjected to party pressure). Nowadays, this is extremely rare, which is why we see fairy tales on television about fair trials, honest police officers, and wise and understanding clergy. Under capitalism, justice is only possible in the movies. And fraud and theft are an integral part of capitalism in ALL spheres.
                1. 0
                  4 November 2025 01: 33
                  You, sir, are talking nonsense. The court doesn't make up laws; it judges by laws passed by others. There's a loophole in the current legislation: a bona fide buyer caught in a scam will be left without money or an apartment. This whole thing will be handled according to the law.
                  1. +2
                    4 November 2025 12: 09
                    There's a loophole in the law today: a bona fide buyer who falls victim to fraudsters will be left without money or an apartment. This whole situation will unfold according to the law.
                    What laws are we talking about? This loophole, like others, was left in place deliberately and for no other reason. That's why you're talking nonsense. There are no idiots or fools among legislators and lawyers; there are pragmatists who manage this in their own interests and those of their employers.
                  2. +2
                    5 November 2025 07: 54
                    I'm a seasoned courtroom expert: rations, combat pay, and the same old apartment... As one judge said (when I started pointing out contradictory points in the ruling), whose conscience had awakened but who had no desire to go against the system, "We don't have justice, we just have a task..." In short, I went through six courts before I finally decided on housing! Incidentally, the rations and combat pay were settled by allocating a portion of the funds...
      2. +1
        3 November 2025 16: 28
        when I took the IED from the cache.
        1. -1
          3 November 2025 16: 33
          This means the FSB was aware of the old woman's phone conversations with the scammers. The question is: why didn't they prevent the sale of the apartment and the transfer of the money to the "safe account"?
          1. -2
            3 November 2025 16: 45
            Otherwise, the courier who planted the IED in the cache would have been detained at the same time as the grandmother (if we take into account the version that he was being followed).
          2. -1
            3 November 2025 18: 26
            No, they could have been watching the stash with a security camera to see who would come for it. And they only took the old woman when it became clear she was the last link, not the transfer link.
            1. -1
              4 November 2025 05: 23
              How did you find out about the stash? I told you above.
              1. 0
                5 November 2025 08: 06
                They caught the one who planted the bomb. And then they wait and watch to unravel the whole chain of events, to figure out who was involved, who the target was.
    2. 0
      2 November 2025 07: 48
      Quote: smart fellow
      The grandmother will return the apartment and declare bankruptcy, and the buyer will not receive the money.

      Why would she go bankrupt? The mortgage is insured by the title; if the deal is voided, the insurance company will compensate the bank for the losses. Will the insurance company then sue the old lady? Who knows. And the debtors who bought the apartment with a mortgage will suffer losses equal to the payments already made on it.
      1. 0
        2 November 2025 08: 07
        The mortgage is insured against the title; if the transaction is cancelled, the insurance company will compensate the bank for the damages.

        This option is available if the buyer has taken out a mortgage and also secured it (the mortgage) with title insurance. Both of these conditions are optional. Furthermore, these apartment sales (triggered by fraudsters) are urgent, and the bank must have time to approve the mortgage without raising any suspicions. Therefore (I think) there are many people with several million in savings who could use them to make a profitable purchase.
        Why would she need to file for bankruptcy? ... Will the insurance company sue the old lady later? I don't know.

        Why go to court? There's a court order to return the money.
        1. +2
          2 November 2025 08: 34
          Quote: smart fellow
          This is an option if the buyer took out a mortgage and also insured it (the mortgage) on the title

          No bank will issue a mortgage without any insurance at all. And if it's a resale property, the title is 100% insured, otherwise, goodbye. Title insurance is mandatory for the first three years. After that, you don't have to pay if the contract stipulates it.
          1. GGV
            +2
            2 November 2025 17: 29
            We bought our son an apartment (presumably a resale property) two years ago, and he took out a mortgage on part of it. The bank required life insurance and insurance for the apartment against damages (fire, flood, earthquake, collapse, etc.). I only just learned about title insurance. Live and learn.
            1. +1
              2 November 2025 22: 15
              He obviously paid part of the amount upfront and took out a loan for the rest? Saying "he took out a mortgage for part of it" is incorrect. Even if he paid 90% of the amount upfront and took out a loan for 10%, that still means he took out a mortgage.
              1. GGV
                0
                6 November 2025 12: 15
                We bought a house for my son, and I took out the mortgage in my own name (he didn't have much work experience at the time, so I had to take it out myself to keep the interest rate down). Yes, I phrased it poorly. However, no one mentioned the title when we took out the mortgage.
        2. +1
          3 November 2025 14: 27
          What's the point? I'll have to give away 25 percent of my pension.
        3. 0
          3 November 2025 20: 33
          There is a solution, but no money.
          So get the solution... And sign it.
      2. +7
        2 November 2025 08: 49
        This old woman is talking nonsense!!! I don't know who put her up to it, but this is clearly a scam from them.
        1. +4
          2 November 2025 11: 30
          Quote: Grencer81
          but here they are clearly committing fraud.

          Possibly. It's just a rather intricate scheme. Only the 'Faces' could pull it off. They concocted a case, capitalized on a foiled terrorist attack, and even made some money.
        2. +5
          3 November 2025 01: 42
          but here they are clearly committing fraud.

          There are tons of stories like this already; they were even discussed on the NTV show "Meeting Place" the other day, and in every case, the bona fide buyer was left without an apartment and money...
          "Long live our court...."
          1. +3
            3 November 2025 04: 50
            My cousin ran into the same kind of scammers in Sochi. They fleeced him and then just laughed at him. They have their own judges, their own corrupt police and prosecutors. So his heart gave out...
        3. +1
          3 November 2025 12: 22
          Is it true that there are dozens of cases across the country where women are challenging real estate purchase and sale agreements in court, claiming they were instigated by fraudsters? There are more than one, two, or even dozens of such cases. And despite the legal definition of a "bona fide purchaser," these people are left without apartments and without money. Something tells me things aren't that simple, and the number of such women is growing, with the court ruling in their favor despite any measures the buyers take, such as obtaining certificates from the mental health clinic or having a notary present during the transaction...
          1. 0
            4 November 2025 04: 55
            My brother was a conscientious buyer and decided to move from Siberia to somewhere warmer. But he ran into jerks like this Shapoklyak.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. +1
        2 November 2025 17: 08
        Here's what they're writing about title insurance for secondary properties today.
      5. +1
        4 November 2025 01: 35
        But title insurance won't help you. And there are hundreds of examples of this.
    3. +15
      2 November 2025 08: 16
      Quote: smart fellow
      It's just that grandma has to return the money first, and then they should give her the apartment back.

      What money? The deal is closed and registered, the old lady is sane. herself sold the apartment.

      The situation is dire: it's becoming impossible to buy apartments on the secondary market—they can take them away at any moment.
      1. +24
        2 November 2025 09: 51
        The very motive behind the courts' outrageous decisions is unclear. Either a person is sane—and fully responsible for all their actions, regardless of age—or they are not, but then they can't dispose of their property, right? It's a funny thing, really: voting for United Russia, for example, is perfectly reasonable, but supposedly handing over money to scammers is immediately out of the question.

        However, it's quite obvious that the situation was influenced by two simultaneous events: the so-called Dolina case, a simple mockery of justice and common sense, and the stern order from the beloved guarantor to immediately take measures to protect pensioners from fraud. So, they're taking them. As best they can...
        1. +1
          2 November 2025 13: 11
          Yeah, defending pensioners... I was awarded 250K for smashing a wagon full of scrap metal two years ago, and it doesn't matter that the pensioner wasn't even driving the locomotive and didn't leave the wagon on the slope without a brake chock.
        2. +2
          3 November 2025 01: 50
          The so-called Dolina case, which is simply a mockery of justice and common sense

          A stupid fool fell for a scam, and because of her stupidity, others suffer...
        3. +3
          3 November 2025 13: 48
          What's there to guess about? Who benefits from the secondary market going belly-up? Of course, the good guys—the developers. No need to hire detectives. The beneficiaries are right there on a platter. And so long as nothing happens. These are all assumptions. Hee-hee.
        4. 0
          4 November 2025 01: 44
          Here's how it works. The judge orders a forensic psychiatric examination. The experts conclude that the seller is competent, but was in a special psychological state of dependence on the fraudsters. Then, the judge, guided by general civil law, rolls back the deal. The buyer gets the money, the seller gets the apartment. But the money is gone. Judges and experts have already devised a rationale, and not a single case has reached the Supreme Court yet (I don't know of any). P.S. "Sanity" is a term used in criminal proceedings; in civil cases, the term is "competence." Don't get confused anymore. drinks
      2. +3
        3 November 2025 12: 24
        It's impossible to buy on the secondary market, so buy from... No, I'm not hinting at anything, this is just a discussion of where the roots might come from.
        1. 0
          3 November 2025 18: 19
          This won't help developers. A down payment usually comes from selling a resale home or a Khrushchev-era apartment. And now there's no down payment because there's no resale property.
    4. +16
      2 November 2025 08: 27
      It's just that grandma has to return the money first, and then they should give her the apartment back.

      If superficially - then so...
      And if not: the family with children has already renovated the apartment, bought furniture for it, is paying interest, and the payments made to the bank will disappear, etc.
      so it is correctly said:
      So our courts Their decisions confirm the recruiters' main thesis: "Nothing will happen to you."

      and the courts - are they definitely "ours" then?
    5. +14
      2 November 2025 09: 13
      That's right. And all the grandmothers will instantly stop "helping" Ukraine! As soon as the money isn't grabbed and the apartment isn't returned, the terrorist grandmothers will disappear as a phenomenon. laughing
    6. +1
      2 November 2025 11: 43
      This is very simple for you, but according to the law, from her pension of 20 thousand rubles, she will repay the debt of 20 million over the course of decades, if she lives that long!
      1. GGV
        0
        2 November 2025 17: 40
        The terrorist grandmother will have her apartment returned. And in the best-case scenario, she could be charged for repairs in addition to the debt. Only after her death (unless it's more profitable for the heirs to pay off the debt and sell the apartment themselves) will this family be able to reclaim the apartment. But when will that happen, what condition will the apartment be in, where will they live in the meantime, and how much will they have to pay for it?
        1. 0
          4 November 2025 01: 48
          The apartment won't go to the buyer even after the grandmother's death. The heirs won't accept the inheritance; the apartment will go to the state.
    7. 0
      2 November 2025 12: 11
      From a legal perspective, this means the transaction is cancelled. There must be grounds for this. We don't know all the details. If the first-instance court overturns it, we'll have to appeal, then appeal, and then all the way to the Supreme Court. Apparently, she's a tough cookie. Good luck and patience to the family who bought the apartment. And may they win in court.
      1. +1
        3 November 2025 01: 47
        Apparently the old lady was a bit of a tough one.

        There are a lot of these grannies, a lot of such stories...
      2. 0
        4 November 2025 01: 50
        I've seen two dozen such court decisions. They're all carbon copies. As far as I know, not a single case has reached the Supreme Court yet (it's not a given that the Supreme Court will accept such a case), and everything is fine in the courts; the judges' decisions stand.
    8. 0
      2 November 2025 12: 51
      It's just that grandma has to return the money first, and then they should give her the apartment back.

      In theory, that's true. But what if this is the grandmother's only home? Then, according to our laws, things become much more complicated.
      1. 0
        2 November 2025 13: 08
        Since this is usually the grandmother's only home, the court will return the apartment to her immediately, and she'll repay the money as best she can. Or she could declare bankruptcy and not bother. There are, of course, mechanisms for resolving this issue. The court can choose an intermediary, for example, Sberbank, which specializes in real estate, to sell the apartment at market value. The money will be returned to the buyer, and the remaining funds will be used to purchase housing for the grandmother. It's assumed that the difference between the market value and the purchase price of the apartment is significant enough that the court would rule the transaction fraudulent.
        Everything depends on legislation and court decisions. That's why I wrote that they're ill-considered.
        1. +1
          4 November 2025 01: 52
          That's just how you imagine an honest person can do it. But in real life, the courts issue decisions that are carbon copies of each other. I've personally seen two dozen such decisions.
    9. +6
      2 November 2025 13: 46
      Quote: smart fellow
      It's just that grandma has to return the money first, and then they'll give her the apartment back. It's like Ostap Bender: chairs in the evening, money in the morning.

      Unfortunately, for some reason, the courts these days side with the "cheated" rather than the injured buyers, which really surprised me. Yes, they're obligated to return the money, but it's not like Ostap Bender: chairs in the evening, money in the morning, and the apartment is left to the defrauded, while the buyer ends up dreaming of getting their money back in 100-200 years, because you can't write off much from the old lady's pension. It feels like our judicial system has suddenly started copying American precedent, as our court decisions are copied regardless of the circumstances. It seems like this is beneficial to someone and has become a standard practice (yes, standard practice, because there are already more than a dozen similar decisions, all following the same pattern).
    10. +1
      3 November 2025 22: 23
      You're just like children! We need to take a broader view! Prominent bloggers and activists have pushed back against major developers with their "idea" of preferential mortgages for almost everyone. The result is clear: developers have gone rogue. What did you think? Do developers achieve 300-700% profitability with clean hands? They've already had a taste of big, easy money. They've gained power and the necessary connections. Now the only thing that can stop them is a unified public response against them and broad government support for private housing construction programs, complete with all the necessary infrastructure.
    11. 0
      5 November 2025 08: 34
      The simplest and most logical option is to shoot the old woman and the issue will be closed.
  2. +21
    2 November 2025 03: 26
    The buyers are in deep trouble with these grandmothers.
    The main thing here is that a precedent has been created...by the court...now any transaction can be terminated in favor of the seller...and the innocent buyer will suffer.
    There's clearly a flaw in our justice system... our judges have recently started to do something weird with the laws of Themis.
    The scales of justice require repair.
    The punishment does not correspond to the gravity of the crime...there is no balance.
    1. +9
      2 November 2025 04: 39
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      There's clearly a flaw in our justice system... our judges have recently started to do something weird with the laws of Themis.

      the last few decades? You just haven't encountered it, and it's not something you remember much about in the news.
      1. +15
        2 November 2025 04: 45
        Quote from alexoff
        You just haven't encountered it, and it's not something you remember very much in the news.

        I constantly monitor crime news in the regions... and there are such cases popping up with judges' verdicts that you can't help but fall. hi
        For example, in my city, the killer of 15-year-old girl Karina was released.
        He invited her to his home and there, with particular cruelty, stabbed her to death... he was given 9 years... now this scumbag lives at home and has not repented at all of his crime... request
        What kind of justice is this...it's a mockery of it!!! am
        It is not normal.
        Or in Tver Azerbaijani He hit 4 people at a bus stop...two are in a coma...and he was released. what
        Damn it.
        1. +11
          2 November 2025 07: 01
          Ugh... You haven't encountered "our" juvenile justice system yet... And the essence of the article... The law doesn't take into account circumstances like these. In all fairness, the grandmother should have been sent to a social institution after this, but alas... My son was injured in a crowd by a particularly inept old woman. She hit him on the backpack with a stick, and there was a tablet in it, breaking the screen. He allegedly didn't let her go ahead.
        2. +4
          2 November 2025 08: 00
          Or in Tver, an Azerbaijani hit four people at a bus stop...two are in a coma...and he was released.

          Money wins!
        3. +3
          2 November 2025 08: 30
          two in a coma

          One of the injured women died.
          https://tvernews.ru/news/329691/
        4. +11
          2 November 2025 12: 19
          Our judicial system, and indeed the entire state, is completely out of whack. A man who disagrees with the war has come out into the public eye, criticized the government, and spoken out against it. What do we have? Well, that's just a person's position. A way of looking at life. He's locked up for 10 years. Meanwhile, embezzlers, rapists, and other scum walk around—and a ton of suspended sentences, or 4-5 years, parole, and then back out again. It's like a looking glass. This can't be happening. As for the courts, we see judges' children marrying for 100 million, or how a judge has 4 billion worth of real estate found. Where does all this come from? And that's the second reason these scoundrels save themselves. Corruption...
          1. -1
            2 November 2025 12: 24
            Have you decided to justify terrorists because, in your opinion, corrupt officials are treated too leniently?
        5. 0
          2 November 2025 19: 01
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          I constantly monitor crime news in the regions... and there are such cases popping up with judges' verdicts that you can't help but fall.

          Yeah, you've probably been monitoring and keeping statistics on who was released since perestroika, claiming things were better back then. Back then, the crime detection rate was terrible: someone who didn't kill one person got nine years, but someone who killed thirty and was never found, or who hit them with a car and fled. About 15 years ago, I had a neighbor who killed a family, sending them all to the brink of death, but he quit the police force retroactively and pretended to be crazy, and nothing happened to him except my contempt, living his life peacefully.
        6. +1
          2 November 2025 19: 08
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Or in Tver, an Azerbaijani hit four people at a bus stop...two are in a coma...and he was released.

          Or maybe you just have a person of the wrong nationality—let's not get into it—guilty! I saw the news—someone cut him off and he veered into oncoming traffic. And you're making him out to be a maniac because that's how peoples are friends. Although it looks more like an unfortunate coincidence, and if it weren't for the Azerbaijani, no one would have thrown a fit. You never know what kind of accidents there are in this country.
          And there were police officers standing at the bus stop; judges probably don’t like the police.
    2. +1
      2 November 2025 07: 46
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Now any deal can be terminated in favor of the seller

      This has always been the case. That's why all mortgage-backed real estate transactions are insured.
      1. 0
        2 November 2025 07: 53
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        My son was injured in a crowd by a very inept old woman. She hit him on the backpack with a stick, and there was a tablet in it, breaking the screen. He allegedly didn't let her go ahead.

        Life is an unpredictable thing.
        I'm walking down the street...a couple of old people in front of me...a grandpa and grandma are trying to step across the sidewalk on the ice...I go up to her and try to help her by the hand...the old man attacks me with his fists...
        request It turned out they were going to the hospital, and the old woman's arm was broken.
        what
        Damn it...I'm in deep trouble, so to speak.
      2. +1
        2 November 2025 08: 42
        Quote: Puncher
        This has always been the case. That's why all mortgage-backed real estate transactions are insured.

        What if I don't take out a mortgage? It's probably better not to buy an old lady's house.
        1. -3
          2 November 2025 11: 28
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          It's better not to buy a house from old ladies.

          Buying on the secondary market always carries risks. If you don't insure the transaction, don't cry later because the deal was disputed.
          1. +7
            2 November 2025 11: 30
            Quote: Puncher
            Buying on the secondary market always carries risks. If you don't insure the transaction, don't cry later because the deal was disputed.

            Are you kidding? I mean, I bought it, paid the money, and it was through a notary. The seller is reasonable, and he hasn't been seen in a mental hospital. Oh, but there were risks—he screwed up himself? Let's just cancel the sale and purchase altogether, what if the seller was misled by someone? I only see one way: either don't buy from old ladies, or write a statement before buying, "I think she's being scammed—check it out."
            1. 0
              2 November 2025 11: 43
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              Are you kidding?

              No, of course
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              That is, I bought it, gave the money, and through a notary... the seller is adequate, has not been seen in a mental hospital.

              And then a relative who had the right to this property shows up, goes to court, and challenges the deal. How could you have predicted such a turn of events? Absolutely not.
              1. +1
                2 November 2025 11: 46
                Quote: Puncher
                And then a relative who had the right to this property shows up, goes to court, and challenges the deal. How could you have predicted such a turn of events? Absolutely not.

                Well, in that sense, of course, no way... especially if there was a decision... but in Stavropol Krai, they usually convert the debt into a monetary equivalent, and don't cancel it, like in your case - I don't know...
                1. +6
                  2 November 2025 11: 50
                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  Usually, the debt is converted into a monetary equivalent, rather than cancelled.

                  If they reach an agreement along the way. But if it was a planned scam...
                  In the described case (in my opinion) this is exactly what happened.
                  P.S.: Is it any wonder when judges convicted of corruption are found to have billions?
                  1. +1
                    2 November 2025 11: 52
                    Quote: Puncher
                    P.S.: Is it any wonder when judges convicted of corruption are found to have billions?

                    This is unfortunately not an event.
                    Quote: Puncher
                    In the described case (in my opinion) this is exactly what happened.

                    I think about this too..
                    1. 0
                      2 November 2025 11: 56
                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      I think about this too..

                      Real estate has always been a big deal, but of course, commercial real estate is more common, where the money is bigger. It's not a measly 10 million. It's just that now, as many have pointed out, a precedent has been set, and it's off to the races.
                      1. 0
                        2 November 2025 11: 57
                        Quote: Puncher
                        Real estate has always been a big deal, but of course, commercial real estate is more common, where the money is bigger. It's not a measly 10 million. It's just that now, as many have pointed out, a precedent has been set, and it's off to the races.

                        It's going to be brutal... until the Supreme Court clarifies, the scammers will have a field day.
                      2. 0
                        2 November 2025 12: 01
                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        The scammers will have fun..

                        I don't think it will be widespread. It's too laborious, and the impact isn't particularly great.
                      3. +1
                        2 November 2025 12: 03
                        Quote: Puncher
                        I don't think it will be widespread. It's too laborious, and the impact isn't particularly great.

                        I haven't read the solution, but I suspect there are some nuances there... We'll see when I get there... In any case, it's bullshit.
                      4. +4
                        3 November 2025 01: 58
                        Dolina set a precedent when she sold her apartment for 110 million rubles, transferred the money to scammers, and then got it back through the courts. The court invalidated the contract, but ruled that restitution was only one-sided, as the money had gone to an unknown destination. And then all hell broke loose: someone is paying a mortgage on an apartment they don't live in.
                  2. +2
                    2 November 2025 12: 58
                    You are not alone in your suspicions that this was a planned scam. laughing
              2. 0
                2 November 2025 17: 50
                I don't know about you. I've sold and traded resale properties many times. I had them registered at a notary's office. And I've never had any problems. The notary will require all documents related to ownership. If I'm the full owner of the apartment or house, then those relatives won't matter. If there are any risks, the notary is unlikely to agree to such a transaction.
            2. 0
              2 November 2025 13: 57
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              I only see one way: either don't buy from old ladies or write a statement before buying, "I think she's being scammed - check it out."

              The remaining option is the "hidden share." The seller may have a relative, spouse, or child entitled to a share of the property. This person will then assert their rights and demand payment after the transaction.
    3. 0
      2 November 2025 11: 39
      You are mistaken not to do strange things, but to quietly, quietly cause harm with a long-term aim!
    4. 0
      3 November 2025 13: 51
      I wonder why the hell the courts started acting so weird? It's just mind-boggling. There has to be some reason.
  3. 0
    2 November 2025 04: 37
    I have a similar case. Matvey Alkash, a friend of mine, drove a Gazelle and bought a refrigerator from some drug addicts for 1000 rubles. They sold it to his wife, her Indesit. He pawned it for 8 rubles. Then the wife filed a report, and a cop came to the pawnshop, picked up the refrigerator, and returned it to her. He could sell it again. Nothing happened to Matvey Alkash. They only asked if he was involved in loading it. Of course not, they loaded it themselves. It wasn't the first time he'd been told not to do that again, or it would be like a buyout. He never did it again. The pawnshop just lost out.
    1. +12
      2 November 2025 05: 08
      At least add one comma to your nonsense! Maybe the meaning will become easier to understand.
  4. +11
    2 November 2025 04: 38
    In America, African Americans are untouchable, but here, grandmas are untouchable. Grandmas can steal something from Pyaterochka every day, and every day the police will say the grandma simply forgot to pay, understand, and forgive. The grandma can call the police at night to report a neighbor mining and trying to burn down the house, and the police, in the absence of anything suspicious, won't fine the grandma for a false alarm. A few months ago, she sold her apartment and lived somewhere else; no one noticed, none of her relatives clutched their heads in disbelief that the scammers kept calling her.

    Some friends had a similar story back in the 2000s, without any involvement from the SVO or Ukraine. A woman sold them an apartment and refused to move out. The court ruled that it was improper to throw a single mother out on the street, especially since she had no money. They then spent about the apartment's worth on lawsuits and still couldn't get what they deserved.
    1. +4
      2 November 2025 04: 56
      Grannies can steal something from Pyaterochka every day and every day

      It's not just cash they steal at Pyaterochka and Magnit...a whole circle of petty thieves has formed there...teenagers, migrants, gypsies, alcoholics, women...they steal everything...from butter to expensive, elite alcoholic drinks...and on camera, and without the slightest embarrassment. They hide it in underwear, under skirts, under pants...they're like performers.
      By law, they can only be given a minor fine or a reprimand. request
      1. +5
        2 November 2025 05: 03
        At the pawn shop on the ring road, they're selling cognacs, martinis, and canned goods. A drug addict brought me 15 cans of food, and he said I'd sell each one for 150 rubles, and they were large cans of stewed meat. And he pulled it all out of a long down jacket!
      2. 0
        2 November 2025 18: 51
        It's not just the money that's stolen; you've forgotten the staff themselves, but only the money gets a pass if caught red-handed. Another friend of mine almost had a minor charged for stealing a bottle, but the lawyers got him off by saying the hefty fine was recalculated without VAT, and he got off with a fine.
    2. -2
      2 November 2025 08: 33
      Here in America there are untouchable African Americans, and we have untouchable money.

      and if you look from the outside, everything seems fine, but if you take a closer look, it's like a "pot on your head"...
  5. +13
    2 November 2025 04: 58
    You can pity old age, but you can't pity old stupidity. A sentence must be not only legal, but also fair. Law-abiding citizens should not suffer because of someone else's stupidity!
    1. -10
      2 November 2025 07: 44
      Quote: Grencer81
      Law-abiding citizens should not suffer!

      They weren't particularly harmed. It was the bank that suffered.
  6. +22
    2 November 2025 05: 35
    Whatever one may say, honest buyers shouldn't suffer. Let the old woman return the money, and then she'll get the keys back. Otherwise, they're the main victims in a fraudulent scheme in which the court itself is a key player.
    1. -5
      2 November 2025 07: 43
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      Conscientious buyers should not suffer.

      Therefore, such transactions are insured.
      1. +8
        2 November 2025 08: 56
        Quote: Puncher
        Therefore, such transactions are insured.

        What difference does it make whether they're insured or not? So, you can cheat the old ladies? The point is, she got the money and did whatever she wanted, and then the deal was simply cancelled... The house is yours again, and you pay them back when you can.
        1. -3
          2 November 2025 11: 35
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          then the deal was simply cancelled...

          So many real estate transactions are disputed. That's why title insurance is used. For example, someone owes a lot of money and sells an apartment, but they go bankrupt and the transaction is contested through the Arbitration Court because the proceeds from the sale weren't used to pay off the debt. The Arbitration Court (if three years have not passed since the transaction) annuls the transaction and transfers it for sale as part of the bankruptcy proceedings.
          1. +3
            2 November 2025 11: 36
            So, you're now arguing that canceling the deal because grandma transferred the money from the deal somewhere else is okay? Are you an insurance agent by any chance? As for bankruptcy, they look at whether the deal is in line with the market value. If it is, they won't cancel it.
            1. -1
              2 November 2025 11: 46
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              Because grandma transferred the money from the deal somewhere else - is that normal?

              Normality is determined by the court.
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              Are you an insurance agent by any chance?

              No, not even close.
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              As for bankruptcy, they look at whether the transaction corresponds to the market price; if it does, they won't cancel it.

              Think what you want. Who's stopping you?
              If you are not aware, within the framework of a bankruptcy case, even the only residence can be included in the bankruptcy estate and sold to pay off the debt.
              1. +1
                2 November 2025 11: 47
                Quote: Puncher
                Think what you want. Who's stopping you?
                If you are not aware, within the framework of a bankruptcy case, even the only residence can be included in the bankruptcy estate and sold to pay off the debt.

                I took part in such cases and fought back... and you? A theorist?
                1. 0
                  2 November 2025 11: 52
                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  Are you a theorist?

                  There is case law available to anyone interested. It can be interesting to read.
                  1. +1
                    2 November 2025 11: 53
                    Quote: Puncher
                    There is case law available to anyone interested. It can be interesting to read.

                    Well, I'm not going to throw my practice at you, really. laughing but I fought back... although I admit - I might not have fought back... the main condition is compliance with the market, if not, you can start crying...
                    1. 0
                      2 November 2025 11: 59
                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      I'm not going to throw my practice at you, really

                      I believe you're a successful lawyer. But you know, most people don't try very hard. Their main goal is to rip off their clients and then shrug it off.
                      1. +1
                        2 November 2025 12: 02
                        Quote: Puncher
                        I believe you're a successful lawyer. But you know, most people don't try very hard. Their main goal is to rip off their clients and then shrug it off.

                        I believe in karma, so I usually don't take on shitty things, but sometimes I have to. You know why? You see that if someone doesn't give the money to you, they'll give it to some "Vasya" because he doesn't care what you say—no chance, he's got a program in his head that he needs to sue... people... what can you do? request
                      2. 0
                        2 November 2025 12: 16
                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        He doesn't care what you say - there's no chance, he has a program in his head - he needs to sue...

                        Economic and legal illiteracy provides food and shelter for many. And you're right that if someone is convinced, there's no point in trying to convince them otherwise. The main thing is to be prepared to listen to hysterics.
    2. +2
      2 November 2025 08: 29
      Well, they got the money back, but firstly, that's different money, and it might not be enough to buy an apartment. And secondly, and this is the main thing, if people sold their apartment, where will they live?
      1. 0
        2 November 2025 11: 31
        Quote from Fisher
        Well, they got the money back, but firstly, that's different money, and it might not be enough to buy an apartment. And secondly, and this is the main thing, if people sold their apartment, where will they live?

        If only they would return it, grandma said there's no money...
      2. 0
        6 November 2025 16: 20
        I wonder if people who sold their apartment can get it back? On the grounds that the old lady who sold it misled them? After all, she really did mislead them. "I'm selling it, then 'Oh, give it back,'" she said. But what if she was originally from Ukraine? And she specifically sent the money to the Ukrainian Armed Forces?
  7. +3
    2 November 2025 06: 25
    Fraudsters are not born by age, but by inclination toward this kind of activity. What surprises me is something else. How could it happen that so many of our people have become accomplices of the SBU? And until we address this, this will continue.
  8. +14
    2 November 2025 06: 32
    The "Dolina case" is already in full swing. Judges are taking apartments away from buyers based on complaints from dodgy sellers, claiming they were "under pressure, didn't realize it," and so on. Wow! Even the State Duma is concerned about this lawlessness.
    1. +4
      2 November 2025 08: 36
      The "Valley Case" is already in full swing.

      Yes, indeed - our law, it seems, is not precedent - but people "in robes" do not bother themselves - they copy other people's decisions left and right - with the same grammatical errors...
      1. +4
        2 November 2025 08: 47
        They wrote that the buyer of Dolina's apartment had filed an appeal and was planning to take it all the way to the Supreme Court. And there they were: the new Chairman and the Momotovs were kicked out. I hope justice will prevail.
        1. +1
          2 November 2025 08: 53
          I hope justice will prevail.

          Yes, let's hope - there is no other way out for us
        2. +1
          2 November 2025 09: 00
          Quote: Peter Yakovlev
          And there: the new Chairman and the Momotovs were kicked out.

          You know, there's this word "system"... it doesn't depend on surnames...
  9. +15
    2 November 2025 06: 57
    The grandmother sold her apartment under the influence of scammers from Ukraine and, on their instructions, was preparing a terrorist attack, for which she was arrested

    What's the problem? Was the grandmother declared sane before the sale? So she should be declared a terrorist and jailed. The apartment should go to the new owner.
    There was no physical pressure on her, was there? Not during the purchase and sale, not during the preparation of the terrorist attack. Her "gullibility" failed her; let her "gullibility" seek out the swindlers, and at the same time prove her innocence.
  10. +7
    2 November 2025 07: 11
    But why should honest citizens suffer because of such old (they won't let a normal word pass)??? She sold it, planned a terrorist attack, and now she'll be in the chocolate... Her apartment is now in prison!!!
  11. VLR
    +17
    2 November 2025 07: 31
    Previously, judges unconditionally sided with bona fide buyers. The situation changed after the murky case of Larisa Dolina, who either turned out to be a monstrous loser or pulled off a scam, leaving the buyer without an apartment and without money. Considering that Dolina has her own lawyer and manager handling her affairs, the latter option is more likely. Under pressure from the public, the court sided with the singer. And now other judges, looking back on this decision, are allowing cunning pensioners to defraud buyers. The secondary housing market has practically collapsed.
    1. +2
      2 November 2025 08: 49
      They wrote that the buyer of Dolina's apartment had filed an appeal and was planning to take it all the way to the Supreme Court. And there they were: the new Chairman and the Momotovs were kicked out. I hope justice will prevail.
  12. -5
    2 November 2025 07: 41
    The author is missing something. When you take out a mortgage, the transaction is insured. And without title insurance, no bank will approve a mortgage. And this isn't about the fact that she's a rich woman, but rather that there's always a risk that the transaction will be declared null and void. Like, the seller of the apartment might end up with an illegitimate daughter who was entitled to a share of the property, etc.
    So, if the court invalidates the transaction and returns the apartment to the grandmother, then the insurance company should cover the bank's losses. Why the bank? Because the apartment belongs to the bank, not Igor Ermakov.
    The situation is entirely solvable. Why this nonsense was posted here is unclear.
    1. +5
      2 November 2025 08: 34
      Quote: Puncher
      Why the bank? Because the apartment doesn't belong to Igor Ermakov, it does.

      The owner of a mortgaged apartment is the buyer (borrower), in whose name the title deed is registered, but until the loan is repaid, the apartment is pledged to the bank.
      1. -4
        2 November 2025 08: 37
        Quote: Olgovich
        the apartment is mortgaged to the bank

        Exactly. The apartment belongs to the bank until you repay the debt. Therefore, in this case, the loser is the bank, which lost 10 million rubles, not the borrower.
        1. +2
          2 November 2025 09: 07
          Quote: Puncher
          The apartment belongs to the bank

          to the owner who owes the bank a loan
          1. -2
            2 November 2025 11: 36
            Quote: Olgovich
            to the owner who owes the bank a loan

            Well, he pays taxes on it, but he can't dispose of it. I mean, he can't sell it there.
            1. 0
              3 November 2025 08: 53
              Quote: Puncher
              I mean sell it there.

              Perhaps the buyer alone will take on the remaining loan payment.
        2. ANB
          +5
          2 November 2025 10: 25
          The apartment belongs to the bank until you pay off the debt.

          It doesn't belong to the bank. The buyer has title, but the property is encumbered by a lien. If the apartment is returned to the seller, the bank loses only the lien, not the money. Ideally, the entire amount, including the down payment, should be insured. Then comes the loan to the bank, and the down payment to the buyer. But often, only the loan amount is insured. In this case, both the insurer and the buyer suffer.
          In fact, the bias has shifted back to the seller. They almost crushed the scheme involving fraudulent sales and repossessions of apartments. And here we go again. It's become incredibly easy to portray an SBU setup with minor consequences (to avoid jail time). And after Dolina, it all started to look exactly the same.
          1. +2
            2 November 2025 11: 39
            Quote: ANB
            And after the Valley, everything started exactly the same.

            Money, money is rubbish
            Forgetting peace and laziness
            Make money make money
            The rest is all rubbish...
          2. +1
            2 November 2025 11: 40
            Quote: ANB
            If the apartment is returned to the seller, the bank only loses the deposit, not the money.

            Well, yes, because an insured event occurred. But then again, the bank also lost profit.
            1. ANB
              +1
              2 November 2025 13: 30
              Well, yes, because an insured event occurred.

              Even without insurance, the bank only loses the collateral, not the loan amount. It also hits the excess reserve. The buyer's debt isn't written off if the apartment is foreclosed. Repayment may be a problem.
              That's why banks require that the transaction itself be insured.
  13. +4
    2 November 2025 07: 43
    They let the old woman go so she could stage another terrorist attack?
  14. +8
    2 November 2025 07: 52
    What's so unclear about when we took the wrong turn? We set a precedent with Dolina; this kind of nonsense is now commonplace.
    1. +7
      2 November 2025 08: 46
      When an ordinary citizen files a lawsuit, we don't have case law... But when it comes to "valleys," a precedent is immediately found.
  15. +2
    2 November 2025 08: 20
    Recently, despite a court finding a pensioner in Khabarovsk sane for selling her apartment "under the influence of fraudsters," she was still given her apartment back. The court ordered the apartment returned to the pensioner, but ordered that 3 million rubles (the apartment's value) be paid to the new owner, Alyona. Since her grandmother doesn't have that kind of money, the girl was left homeless and penniless.
    - Long live our court! - the most humane court in the world! - stormy and prolonged applause.
  16. +1
    2 November 2025 08: 33
    Judging by the photo, this Baba Shafuilovna looks pretty sturdy for her 74 years, and it's clearly not her first time holding a machine gun. And if the article is illustrated by an associative photo, then explain it under the photo. And since the article is about Baba Shafuilovna, there's no other explanation under the photo, which means she's the terrorist Baba Shafuilovna holding a machine gun. Let's get acquainted!
  17. +13
    2 November 2025 09: 15
    If the government makes it clear that in such cases the grandmother will go to prison for 10-20 years, and the apartment will not be returned to either the grandmother or the heirs, then such cases will immediately cease on their own. laughing
  18. +5
    2 November 2025 09: 18
    Others shouldn't have to suffer for the deception of some. Those who fell for the deception should be held accountable for their own stupidity, not shift the blame from the sick to the healthy.
  19. -11
    2 November 2025 09: 32
    The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

    Quote: V. Biryukov
    .. the court will decide at this point unknown...
    ... family can to be left without money and without an apartment...

    There is no court decision, but the author has already summed it up: "the family could be left without money and without an apartment."

    What's the point of the article? Isn't it to discredit one branch of government?
    1. +4
      2 November 2025 11: 13
      Isn't it to discredit one of the branches of government?
      - What about Bolshevism? You, sir, either take off your cross or put on some underwear. laughing
      1. 0
        3 November 2025 07: 22
        Bolshevism is the essence of Russian civilization.

        Quote: faiver
        - What about Bolshevism?

        The Bolsheviks never opposed the vertical power structure. Power either exists or it doesn't. The article aims to undermine power—a "Maidan."

        The state structure needs to be changed – from capitalism to socialism. This can be done peacefully by amending the Constitution. This is the cause, and the consequences can be fought ad infinitum.

        ps
        The essence of Bolshevism is in the sincere desire to express and implement the long-term strategic interests of the working majority, who want no one to parasitize on their labor and life.
  20. +10
    2 November 2025 09: 46
    It's getting creepy living here. The terrorist is officially considered a victim. Give her a couple of apartments downtown, paid for by the state, and a lifetime allowance for herself and everyone else who's had a hand in her. This poorhouse is a complete mess. Even the red-haired scoundrel from Nano, living abroad, gets a pension from Russia that's worth two years' worth of pensioners here. Now that's what I call caring. It's a distorted mirror in action.
  21. +5
    2 November 2025 10: 53
    There are also many stories of grandmothers selling their apartments, giving their money to scammers, and then trying to get their apartments back. And, oddly enough, they get them back because the courts often side with them

    We thank the well-known pensioner L. Dolina for this. It was thanks to her light hand (and, of course, connections) a precedent arose where the law was sent to hell, and a bona fide purchaser was left without both the purchase and the money paid for it
    And now anyone can sell an apartment, then report fraud and—voila!—get their apartment back, leaving the buyer without money or housing.
  22. +6
    2 November 2025 10: 53
    Personal opinion...
    She and her lawyer!!!
    It wasn't the grandmother who was psychologically re-formed by her enemies over the phone for six months, and Roskomnadzor and mobile operators didn't notice anything unusual, and she's a lawyer.
    Was the entire amount transferred from the buyers to the seller in cash? I don't think so, but through a maternity capital loan from the bank.
    So, money arrived in grandma's account. But where did the account come from? It was opened by the bank for a loan.
    Then the money was sent somewhere.
    If a grandparent spends 10-30 thousand rubles a month from their account, then receives 5 million and immediately sends it somewhere, shouldn't this arouse the interest of the bank or Rosfinmonitoring?
    And if after 5 million is deposited into the account, 5 million is quickly withdrawn in cash?
    Where are the details in the publication about the lawyer? Where were the bank's eyes and ears when this unusually sized transaction was carried out? And what does it mean, "the price was reasonable, considering the apartment's need for renovation"?
    But the main question is - what about the lawyer?
  23. +1
    2 November 2025 11: 02
    And further...
    "Recently, a rather telling event occurred in the Moscow region..." And a photo. Has snow fallen in the Moscow region yet? Or was that in the spring? Or last fall? Or not recently? Or is the photo illustrative? Or is the publication not original, but degenerate?
    And where is the lawyer who helped keep the keys?
  24. +6
    2 November 2025 11: 36
    This is a complete disgrace. The law is on the side of the scammers and terrorists! The legality of the purchase has been established, and there should be no questions about it. If the state wants to support those "self-deceived," it should provide the elderly women with a place in a nursing home, or, at worst, simply refund the money to the honest buyer, and then collect the money from the scammers themselves, rather than shifting the burden onto the honest buyers!
  25. +1
    2 November 2025 13: 27
    Long live the Russian court, the most humane... when it comes to morons. It's exactly the same story in labor disputes. Any lumpen can point a finger at any bourgeois they meet, verbally declaring that they have an employment relationship with that person and that they were wronged. The court—to avoid worrying—will almost certainly rule in favor of the naked swindler, if the unfortunate bourgeois is (at least in principle) engaged in any kind of business. This is despite the presence of civil contracts with specific amounts, the absence of evidence of work performed, and payment documents showing amounts transferred to the lumpen that are several times higher than the industry average.

    I remember litigating for three years with a crew of part-time welders who were working for me on an hourly basis without a contract (they stubbornly refused to be legally registered, and the contract didn't exist at the time). A rat had appeared in the crew—not even a welder, but a young, low-skilled fitter who, in my absence, conspired with the client to give them extra hours and keep my work report open, ostensibly to fix some deficiencies. Then they even got into a fight with my engineer, who decided to shut the whole operation down. I paid the part-timers fairly for the work they actually did (in absolute terms, it was twice as much as a factory welder earns in process assembly) and then fired them with a bang, leaving them unpaid only for the hours they "closed."

    They were offended. And the mechanic who initiated the case, being as dumb as a post (and apparently having watched too many Russian TV series), convinced the others to sue me. Like, a real fight! Having pooled their last pennies, they hired an expensive and scandalous St. Petersburg lawyer (like, TV series!), who, in turn, convinced them they could easily win a fortune. Surprisingly, the case was accepted for review, even though the only documents in it were phone screenshots of receipts showing my transfers to their cards (without specifying the purpose of the payments), as well as text messages from unknown numbers with my alleged threats. They claimed 5 million rubles in the lawsuit, although the actual amount was a measly 400. During the hearings, they were unable to provide any qualifications (they all had "sales manager" written on their work records) or confirm that they had been at the company during the stated period. The factory management refused to testify. Their lawyer sang in court about how the poor 35-year-old orphans were starving and everyone was on child support, and he almost got into a fight with my lawyer (a woman).

    Naturally, they lost the first trial completely after two hearings. Then there was a long break due to COVID-19. Then they filed an appeal. They also lost that, although they held out longer. However, the employment relationship was still not recognized. I was delighted and filed a counterclaim for compensation for my own costs. They filed a cassation appeal, increasing the amount to 10 million. I, relaxed and completely confident that cassation in normal countries only overturns decisions related to procedural violations, didn't bother to send my sick lawyer to a distant city for the hearing. And... I lost it in five minutes. In fact, there was almost no hearing. The judge, without even looking, sent the case down to the appellate court.

    I hired a good legal expert on principle (luckily, it wasn't expensive due to my connections). He immediately told me not to expect a completely positive outcome, as appeals in Russia almost always subordinate to cassation. A neutral ruling would be my best bet. Nevertheless, he took charge of the case and sent a competent assistant.

    And that's exactly what happened. The judge, in a private conversation—straight to my face—said he understood everything, but couldn't rule in my favor after the cassation ruling because of the presence of "socially vulnerable individuals" in the case. They'd simply hang him by his bootstraps. A bourgeois in Russia must pay and repent! True—and thank goodness for that—he awarded symbolic payments: 40 rubles each as a bonus and 20 rubles each for expenses. And I'd hoped to win not for the money, but on principle, by setting some kind of precedent (yeah, in Russia).

    But, in a sense, justice prevailed. During the litigation, the lawyer swindled these con artists out of almost a million, constantly convincing the legally illiterate workers that they were about to win the entire amount; they just needed to push a little harder. A huge sum for them. They, of course, cursed me with unforgivable curses and threatened me, but that was just belated cat's tears. Even during the very first hearings, I was tempted to file a complaint with the Federal Tax Service about the plaintiffs' failure to pay taxes, but, thanks to the lawyer, he grabbed my hand, saying that the relationship could be recognized as an employment relationship, and then the tax office would automatically file a claim against me, while the plaintiffs would never have any questions.
    1. +1
      2 November 2025 20: 25
      It's immediately obvious someone doesn't understand anything about legal matters. Remember, the cassation court always comes with a prepared ruling, and your participation in it is practically irrelevant. In my experience, there was only one time when the cassation court actually issued a ruling that was contrary to the prepared one.
      Don't blame the court; in this case, you're at fault, and the lawyer is right: the relationship was perfectly legal. Were you trying to save on taxes? You did.
  26. +5
    2 November 2025 15: 59
    I've been watching these kinds of things for a while. I remember that sly, shady old woman, Dolina, pulled the same thing with her hundred-million-dollar apartment. Then it all started happening everywhere. But what does this really have to do with bona fide buyers who act according to real estate laws and pay the full amount? I think we need to introduce a new type of transaction: the seller sells their apartment to the city, and the buyer also buys the apartment from the city. If the "scammers screw the seller," the seller should sue the city, not the individual/buyer. Then I'll see how these cunning old women, the losers, wrest their square footage back from the state. It's easier for the court to turn down an ordinary person than the state. I think that would be safer.
  27. +2
    2 November 2025 16: 07
    Now, you have to demand a certificate of legal capacity from sellers, especially pensioners. Then any court will turn a blind eye.
    1. +2
      3 November 2025 02: 25
      you need to request a certificate of legal capacity

      This won't help. In all the cases discussed on the NTV program "Meeting Place," the sellers were responsible and had the necessary documents...
  28. +1
    2 November 2025 16: 14
    If the apartment is mortgaged, meaning it's pledged to the bank, then if payments are not made, the bank will repossess it. And why the hell would buyers pay for an apartment they've been evicted from? So, grandma's congratulations are premature.
  29. +2
    2 November 2025 18: 52
    If Tatyana Shafiulovna didn't have the brains to put two and two together, that's her personal problem, not the problem of the apartment's new owners.

    If this idiot grandma had the sense to hand over money to scammers, even though for years now every media outlet and practically every iron has been constantly telling her to hang up the phone if the conversation turns to money! Maybe now she'll have the sense to do without her apartment...
  30. +3
    2 November 2025 19: 04
    What can the new owners of the ill-fated apartment do after losing their money and home?

    Follow the example of a crazy or cunning old woman and recruit them into terrorism if the state system is on their side?
  31. +2
    2 November 2025 20: 20
    Everyone who fell victim to these scams should be tried as terrorist accomplices and jailed. They themselves transfer or hand over money to terrorists, making them accomplices.
  32. +3
    2 November 2025 20: 54
    Lawyers have long been commenting on this situation as tax evasion, our already unloved valley, and all this money. We must finally admit it: the thieving elite will stop at nothing. No.
  33. +4
    3 November 2025 01: 37
    As we see, the security forces are deliberately destroying the country's investment climate. They're harassing businesses, and now they've even gotten to apartment buyers. They want the country's economic life to grind to a halt.

    It remains to be seen who is giving the courts such instructions. The voices on the phone are probably also threatening him with the loss of foreign deposits and villas. With an English accent, for credibility.
  34. +1
    3 November 2025 04: 33
    I think she should sit.
  35. +2
    3 November 2025 04: 38
    A brainless idiot gives her money from selling an apartment to the Ukrainians, and the judges (who are also brainless women) leave Alyona penniless and homeless!!! Is this really a state governed by the rule of law? If Moscow pensioners give 100 million rubles to scammers and then run to the authorities to complain, I have one question: where do these pensioners get that kind of money? I can't make it from pension to pension, medications are expensive, and these millions are being given away to someone else!!! Regarding the rule of law, in the USSR, three judges made decisions (two women and a man, or one woman and two men), and a fair decision in a court case, in most cases, didn't reach the appeals court!
    1. 0
      6 November 2025 11: 39
      Quote: iva1962
      it didn't reach the appeal stage

      The problem is deeper: a huge number of court decisions cannot be considered fair. This cannot continue for long. It will inflame tensions to such an extent that people will begin resolving their problems outside the country's judicial system, with very dire consequences.
      This is already happening en masse in the south, where corrupt judges are raking in billions and fleeing en masse. Sochi, Anapa, Krasnodar, Rostov-on-Don. It's the same everywhere.
      Do you think this will go on forever? Controversial issues have already begun to be resolved at the diaspora level, through disputes and various courts, if the courts have become useless. And then there will be the formation of large criminal organizations that will begin to compete on equal terms with the state for control of life.
  36. +1
    3 November 2025 08: 43
    It's just that recently, both the courts and parliamentarians in Russia have begun acting like its worst enemies. And if the guarantor of the Constitution can do the same, why can't the courts themselves? So they do. It seems the courts and the government in Russia are in cahoots with the enemy—the Nazis from Ruin. Then everything becomes clear. The fundamentals of jurisprudence: a family who bought an apartment are bona fide purchasers, but a court can rule in favor of a terrorist grandmother! Theater of the absurd and the ravings of a madman. Surely someone needs this? When we understand who benefits from this, it will become clear whose advantage such courts are playing—in favor of Russia and its people, or in favor of its enemies.
  37. +1
    3 November 2025 11: 09
    It would be logical to assume the scheme is deeper: the grandmother could have been offered a straightforward offer to "earn a gift for her grandson" with such a scheme. And given examples that "nothing will happen to you." Furthermore, did the authorities investigate her relatives? Maybe everything there is just as good: "friendly" Azerbaijan, etc. In short, this is a new scheme that is being protected by the courts, law enforcement, and even compassionate citizens. And finally, the grandmother has a terrorism charge and is challenging the court's decision!? What kind of nonsense is this?
  38. +2
    3 November 2025 14: 42
    The old Jewish woman Dolina was the first to pull off this scheme and off it went...
  39. 0
    3 November 2025 18: 15
    Nothing surprising. "Our" judges are extremely lenient toward real criminals, but extremely harsh toward the innocent. Judges, just like criminals, bear no responsibility for their decisions, and so they go crazy with impunity. This isn't the first time. For example, in Shchelokovo, an Uzbek killed a disabled person and was fined and given a year's probation (public information).
  40. 0
    3 November 2025 19: 30
    So, another category of people has been added to the list of those you shouldn't buy from. Prisoners, alcoholics, recently divorced people, those who recently inherited property, relatives, gypsies who communicate exclusively through lawyers, chronic debtors, do-it-yourself repairmen, and now pensioners. They can't afford a new home, and they can't buy a used one. Wait until the older generation leaves and don't try anything.
  41. 0
    3 November 2025 23: 22
    In my opinion, the solution is very simple. Any real estate transactions must be thoroughly reviewed by the bank, and immediate family members must be notified of them!
  42. +1
    3 November 2025 23: 56
    The judicial system, in my opinion, is rotten, as evidenced by the extreme increase in court fees, which has made access to justice inaccessible to the poor. sad
  43. 0
    4 November 2025 07: 20
    It's very easy to combat this! All vulnerable individuals should be placed under the control of relatives and the state at banks. In other words, everyone should have a financial guardian!
  44. +1
    5 November 2025 08: 05
    There's no logic at all. Pensioners are usually jailed, and quite successfully, by the way, they don't count on parole. The trick is that 75% of the pension is taken by the Federal Penitentiary Service for the prisoner's upkeep, and the rest is deposited into an account from which, at the request of the pensioner, they buy... well, for example, linoleum and paint to renovate the detachment's bedroom. So, for the system, a pensioner is like a gift from above. You get it? Why haven't they covered up the old woman here? I think the old woman isn't as simple as she seems, and they're covering her up just to cover her up. I sense a new scheme has emerged to shake down suckers.
  45. 0
    5 November 2025 08: 52
    You can only buy real estate from old ladies if the old lady is ready to kick the bucket.
  46. +1
    6 November 2025 06: 48
    Why is everyone blaming the old woman? The real issue is the judges and those who appoint them. The old woman isn't the one running the scheme to expropriate property and money. It's important to understand that all of this is being done with the assistance of one branch of government—the judiciary. And the president appoints the judges.
  47. -1
    6 November 2025 08: 18
    There's some kind of fraudulent scheme going on here. Realtors always ask when registering a transaction how a person can sell their only home and where they'll take it next.
  48. 0
    6 November 2025 11: 27
    I don't understand how the courts make decisions without considering that the rent money physically can't be returned. It's simply a matter of housing one person, partially to blame for what's happening, at the expense of those who are being evicted, who aren't guilty of anything at all. A person can't just fall into suspended animation for several years until the money is found. In general, there are a lot of questions about these "independent" judges and their decisions. It's sheer unprofessionalism, for which someone should be expelled from the profession and, at a minimum, banned from practicing for several years. But I don't recall a single such incident.
  49. +1
    6 November 2025 14: 21
    In my opinion, the court's decision would be correct if the wording in the ruling were slightly rearranged: return the buyer the 3 million rubles spent on the apartment, refund all legal costs, plus return interest on the amount spent at the central bank exchange rate (lost profit), and after all funds are returned, return the apartment to the grandmother. That would be fair.
  50. 0
    8 November 2025 13: 00
    We must help grandma and send her to a nursing home with full board! Fraud is a sin!
  51. 0
    9 November 2025 12: 21
    Thanks to Larisa Dolina for the absurdity in Russian courts on this issue! Dolina isn't the only one to blame, of course, but she's the one who started this whole orgy.
  52. 0
    Yesterday, 18: 59
    There's already a precedent. And now smart lawyers will be seizing on it. Recently, another grandmother, Larisa Dolina, was ordered by the court to return her apartment.
  53. 0
    Yesterday, 19: 00
    Quote: Berg Berg
    We must help grandma and send her to a nursing home with full board! Fraud is a sin!

    That's about 1 to 1.5 rubles a day. Multiply that by 365. That's a year. Who should pay for it?
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 20: 31
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      Who should pay for this?

      The state from our taxes, that is, us.