On UVZ's possible intention to make BMPTs from old T-72s

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On UVZ's possible intention to make BMPTs from old T-72s

This summer, which has already given way to a gloomy autumn, a public vote was announced to determine what proper name to call the combat support vehicle tanksThey say the name "Terminator" has become less than patriotic. It's still a bourgeois name, after all, and therefore—even though it fully justifies its intended purpose—we need to come up with something original, free of cinematic pretensions and in Russian.

How should one react to such an initiative? If one doesn't believe in the obscurantism of the "As you call a ship..." type, then absolutely not. Whether the vehicle is called a "Terminator" or something like "Destroyer" in the Russian style won't make much difference, since menacing epithets and other beautiful words, unfortunately, don't contain explosives and don't possess high kinetic energy, and therefore won't be able to destroy enemy armored vehicles or infantry on the battlefield.



Far more interesting is the fact that, beyond the name, the BMPT is likely to change the platform on which it is produced. This is evidenced by published quotes from the relevant patent, which quickly spread across various domestic media outlets (including TASS)—and, as the saying goes, there's no smoke without fire. Moreover, all this is accompanied by "analysis" by OSINT researchers in Western media, who have noted the movement of old "seventy-twos" from storage using satellite imagery.

So far, it's all up in the air, so to speak. Perhaps they even want to develop robotic "Shturm" systems. But if that does happen, the platform will likely be a modified version of the aging T-72A chassis. On the one hand, that's a good thing, but there's a caveat.

How they plan to modernize the old "unsaleable assets"


It's no secret that most of the tanks produced by our factories for the army aren't brand new, but rather rather old, but modernized, models that rolled off the assembly line during the Soviet era. These include T-62s, which have been overhauled and upgraded with regard to their sighting system, T-80B/BVs, which have been converted to the T-80BVM standard, and T-72Bs, which have been upgraded to the T-72B3 class thanks to a new fire control system, a more powerful engine, and a number of other improvements.

The T-72A, accepted into service in 1979, remains largely unused—they are not sent to the front in large numbers, like the T-72B modernized to the T-72B3 standard, although vehicles of this modification (including the T-72AV with dynamic armor) are occasionally encountered in the Air Defense Zone. Therefore, using the existing stocks of these vehicles, given the ongoing fighting, would be at the very least useful.

Digging into the T-72A's steel bodies, now half-cooled over the years, to revive them as BMPTs will, of course, require a long and thorough process. At least in terms of repairs: all components and assemblies, worn by time and prolonged storage, will need to be overhauled, including the engine, unless it is replaced with "new" uprated versions. Furthermore, in addition to the main engine, an auxiliary power unit for generating electricity will be added. The suspension will also need to be modernized—in particular, sources indicate that the torsion bar twist angles will need to be adjusted to ensure the chassis is pitched forward.

Tanks undergoing modification to become BMPTs will have their turrets and armament removed. Naturally, the automatic loader transporter will be discarded as unnecessary—there's no gun, so there's nothing to load. Next, the standard tank racks, designed to hold fuel and ammunition for the 125mm gun, will be removed. They will be replaced by tanks that can carry a larger volume of fuel.

The turret will be replaced by a standard Terminator combat module with seats for the commander and gunner. It won't be possible to simply install it in place of the tank's turret, so an adapter ring will be used for installation. This adapter ring, along with other components, including the combat module's ring guard in the form of reactive armor, are shown in the diagram below.


1 — chassis. 10 — driver's hatch with emergency opening mechanism. 6 — spare parts boxes. 2 — adapter ring. 5, 4 — protective screens with dynamic protection. 7 — placement of equipment for collecting links of belts of cannons and machine guns.

The BMPT armament will be similar to the familiar Terminator: a 7,62 mm machine gun, two twin anti-tank missile launchers missiles, covered with casings to protect against precipitation, small fragments, and small-caliber bullets, as well as two 2A42 30mm automatic cannons. However, the vehicle lacks automatic grenade launchers—nor, in fact, any seats provided for the operators of these grenade launchers, so the crew will be limited to a driver, commander, and gunner.

The fire control system isn't entirely clear yet—if the BMPT goes into production, its functionality may be cut to reduce costs and simplify manufacturing. But it will likely feature a commander's panoramic viewfinder and a gunner's sight. Consequently, it will also feature optics, a television channel, and a thermal imaging system, supplemented by a laser rangefinder and a ballistic computer.

The vehicle is expected to be protected by Relikt explosive reactive armor, which can withstand anti-tank grenades and missiles, including some tandem missiles, and also provides increased protection against sub-caliber projectiles. In addition, the BMPT has slat armor on the hull sides near the engine compartment and at the rear, protecting against PG-7 and PG-9 grenades.


3 - combat module. 9 - ATGM launchers with protective casings.

In general, the proposed BMPT is essentially the BMPT-72, which was on display at exhibitions 10 years ago and was developed according to the “cheap and cheerful” principle.

Conclusions


Judging whether it's necessary to convert tanks into BMPTs (if this does happen) in the current situation is, of course, difficult. On the one hand, the front also needs tanks, and in large quantities, so there's merit in reviving and at least slightly upgrading older vehicles from storage. On the other hand, given the nature of combat operations in the Northern Military District, where more emphasis is placed on destroying enemy manpower (especially during assaults), the BMPT will be even more effective than a tank.

However, a tank gun performs much worse against such targets due to the projectiles' long overshoots and undershoots, as well as their insufficiently uniform and dense fragmentation field due to the low angle of impact. Furthermore, a tank gun doesn't provide a constant firepower response (preparing to fire takes a long time), which leaves these same targets open to return fire. 30mm automatic cannons partially address these issues by increasing the density of their fire.

Especially when these automatic cannons are mounted on a heavily armored chassis that far outshines any infantry fighting vehicle. Especially when combined with more or less modern dynamic protection capable of protecting the vehicle from anti-tank grenade launchers and missiles. But there's one caveat.


BMPT-72

The proposed BMPT is completely devoid of automatic grenade launchers (AG). Compared to the Terminator, the situation is ambiguous, as reviews of them among operators are highly controversial. It's often said that the grenade launchers in the Terminator are superfluous passengers—and from an evolutionary perspective, this is understandable, since the original plans, when the BMPT concept was being promoted many years ago, called for the grenade launchers to be part of the airborne force.

The catch, however, is that 30mm cannons must be complemented by an automatic grenade launcher, as this is precisely what allows for effective engagement of personnel in trenches and behind uneven terrain. Moreover, it must be mounted not haphazardly, but preferably on a turret (combat module) with stabilization. The proposed BMPT (BMPT-72), unfortunately, lacks both a haphazard and a properly stabilized mounting.

So it's both a BMPT and a surrogate at the same time. But in any case, if the BMPT based on the T-72 does go into production, it's far better than if hundreds of tanks, which could at least be used, continue to rust in storage. Moreover, developing the BMPT by upgrading existing tanks is much simpler, both technologically and financially.
227 comments
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  1. +7
    15 October 2025 04: 52
    It should be called Dobrynia. Especially since it's already been approved by the higher-ups. There's even a video.
    1. +5
      15 October 2025 07: 12
      Okay, turn off the lights and throw the grenade!
      Why
      Dobrynia
      , let's do it right away
      도브리냐
      or
      Դոբրինյա
      , Can i
      დობრინია
      or for example

      דוברינה
      , Yes?
      What difference does it make what language the inscriptions on a Russian tank are in?
      It looks even scarier this way, in a foreign language. And no one will understand it without a dictionary, again, secrecy is maintained.
    2. +5
      15 October 2025 09: 38
      Why in English letters? laughing
      1. +3
        16 October 2025 03: 29
        Quote from AdAstra
        Why in English letters? laughing


        In general, I suggest not to be too clever and just call it.

        BoMaPoTam_vseh

        Or an armored barrel spit (of them)
    3. -2
      15 October 2025 13: 31
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      It should be called Dobrynia. Especially since it's already been approved by the higher-ups. There's even a video.

      Then "Peacemaker"—no need to explain the meaning to the Ukrainians. At worst, "Tranquilizer."
      1. +1
        16 October 2025 06: 35
        Then "Peacemaker"—no need to explain the meaning to the Ukrainians. At worst, "Tranquilizer."
        - aha.... "Patriarch Nikon"! laughing
        1. +1
          16 October 2025 22: 01
          Quote: Reklastik
          Then "Peacemaker" - no need to explain the meaning to the Ukrainians. At worst, "The Calmator" - aha... "Patriarch Nikon"!

          good
      2. +1
        14 December 2025 12: 43
        By the way, the Peacemaker is just the thing, just like the Ukrainian peacekeeper, but with a sense of love...
    4. 0
      22 October 2025 23: 30
      1500004 have already been manufactured.
  2. + 11
    15 October 2025 05: 13
    Infantry is the queen of the fields. I think we need T-72-based armored personnel carriers more. I saw another one of our massive assaults yesterday with huge losses. I think with a good armored personnel carrier this could have been avoided. Better yet, tanks or terminator robots. But that's a fairy tale. You can't replace a person. You can't make a proper grill for a terminator. Only armored personnel carriers. hi
    1. + 18
      15 October 2025 05: 34
      Yes, our wide-lane vehicles don't want to see a heavy armored personnel carrier under any circumstances...
      1. + 13
        15 October 2025 07: 09
        Heavy armored personnel carrier......
        Well, not an APC, damn it, but an infantry fighting vehicle.
        The idea of ​​those comrades who've only seen tanks on TV is clear. The idea is that you can hide in such a vehicle and avoid losses. But this option is only partially feasible against lightly armed opponents.
        Even heavily protected tanks are now trying to fire from the rear.
        The only way to protect armored vehicles is with firepower and by suppressing drones and other anti-tank missiles. Armor, etc., is the last line of defense.
        Therefore, the SPRs based on the BMPT are stupid. There is no significant difference between them.
        And any tag from storage needs to be capitalized.
        We need a new weapon module... It has been said many times that it must provide protection from drones directly to the battle formation and the destruction of manpower and equipment behind cover.
        Those who think two 2A42s can provide a "sea of ​​fire" during an attack should look at the ammunition loadout and the firing system. The stage is clearer.
        1. +5
          15 October 2025 13: 35
          Quote: Alekseev
          Staget is clearer

          Try rereading your thoughts before publishing. sad
          1. +3
            15 October 2025 13: 47
            Quote: skeptic
            Quote: Alekseev
            Staget is clearer

            Try rereading your thoughts before publishing. sad


            You can also try to learn to read between the lines.

            Comrade Alekseev most likely has a mismatch between the size of the keys on his mobile phone (screen size) and his fingers (like mine).

            Comrade Alekseev's thoughts are quite close and understandable to me (maybe that's why I also have a lot of typos)
        2. +1
          15 October 2025 16: 04
          Those who think that two 2A42 can provide a "sea of ​​fire" during an attack,

          I agree. A 23-25mm cannon with a large ammunition complement can provide a sea of ​​fire. It just needs the right ammunition. Generally speaking, heavy infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) and BMPTs are also needed, regardless of their chassis. Three to five T-72s can easily be turned into something worthwhile by adding new parts and reassembling and repairing the old ones. The main thing is the hull.
        3. +1
          16 October 2025 00: 46
          Quote: Alekseev
          Even heavily protected tanks are now trying to fire from the rear.

          So maybe the old guys could replace the turret with a fixed, well-armored cabin and shove an MSTA-B in there. It would create a relatively cheap and simple, highly protected artillery self-propelled gun capable of firing a 152mm howitzer shell with a ZOP. A relic and a good, durable all-round grill would make this thing difficult for drones to penetrate from the rear.
        4. +3
          16 October 2025 01: 37
          Quote: Alekseev
          Those who think two 2A42s can provide a "sea of ​​fire" during an attack should look at their ammunition load and rate of fire. It will become clearer.

          In principle, two 30mm cannons are rather overkill for such a vehicle. One cannon with the same ammo count would be much preferable.
          And the desirability of an automatic grenade launcher for indirect fire is highly desirable. Such an AGS is installed on the turret "back" of the modernized BM "Berezhok," as well as on the BM "Kurganets." So, one solution is to mount the BM "Kurganets" on such a vehicle, resulting in a well-balanced BMPT, or, more rationally, an SHMPP (assault infantry support vehicle). The result will be a single 30mm cannon, but with a reinforced ammo pack, a machine gun, four ATGMs, and an AGS for indirect fire.
          1. +1
            16 October 2025 14: 34
            I had some contact with an anti-aircraft commander who fought for a time in a light armored vehicle with twin 23mm anti-aircraft guns mounted on a truck chassis. He also had to terrorize Ukrainian troops in forested areas. It was definitely effective. Of course, he would have preferred these anti-aircraft guns to be armored, equipped with automatic weapons, and the shells to be remotely detonated (which is a problem).
            1. +1
              16 October 2025 18: 06
              Anti-aircraft guns have a high firepower density, but they also consume a lot of ammunition. For heavy infantry fighting vehicles and BMPTs, a single gun with a doubled ammo count is more efficient—to ensure sufficient ammo for longer engagements. The Terminator was given two guns with a sight so it could also engage helicopters. Currently, this isn't a requirement, and the second gun is redundant. Therefore, it's more rational to mount the Epoch combat module from the Kurganets on the BMPT hull, as it's optimally balanced for such missions.

              And so, one can recall how the turret of the first experimental KV tanks was equipped with two and even three guns. Until the tankers said to keep one and maximize the ammo capacity.
              1. 0
                16 October 2025 20: 04
                It's hard for an armchair commentator to judge guns he had nothing to do with. Even more powerful figures have made mistakes in these matters. However, even a janitor can sometimes spot a few mistakes. Once, during an emergency, the head of physical training said that if you don't have a coach, it's better to have a janitor watch you than no one at all.
                1. 0
                  16 October 2025 21: 48
                  Quote: Alexey Lantukh
                  Somehow on urgent

                  If you classify yourself as a janitor, as a former conscript, perhaps "physical training chief" is an authority figure for you. I'm not from that branch of the military (tanks), but I am a career officer and a former combat command officer of a large air defense unit. If that's not your area of ​​expertise, maybe it's not worth discussing?
                  Or did you, as a "janitor", decide to look from the outside?
                  No offense, you introduced the term yourself.
                  But I've been in this war for twelve years now, and I've been expressing my opinions on the desired appearance of assault infantry vehicles for a long time. Because I see assault troopers practically every day.
                  1. +3
                    16 October 2025 23: 16
                    As you've read, I didn't propose anything. I simply expressed the opinion of an active air defense officer.
                    Of course, a career officer and fighter are just what you need for war. However, the Donbas militias were very surprised that the motorized infantry and ground forces in general didn't have UAVs and drones at the grassroots level in February 2022. And they already had them, albeit in small numbers. So you have career personnel at all levels. And a lot of things were missing. And barbecues came from the grassroots. And hunting rifles. And what was military science doing? So, ideas can come from anywhere and anyone. Recently they showed a downed Ukrainian UAV, a larger one. Garage DIYers made its central part out of a plastic sewer pipe. Surely a military research institute wouldn't have come up with something like that.
                    1. 0
                      17 October 2025 00: 41
                      Quote: Alexey Lantukh
                      Recently, a larger downed Ukrainian UAV was shown. Garage DIYers made its centerpiece from a plastic sewer pipe.

                      Necessity is the mother of invention, I haven't seen such a miracle yet, but they and we print drone bodies on 3D printers, from the same plastic, so anything is possible.
                      Quote: Alexey Lantukh
                      However, the Donbass militias were very surprised that the motorized infantry and ground forces in general did not have UAVs and drones at the grassroots level in February 2022.

                      It happened that way. The war taught us quickly. And at first, the whole world was collecting money for Mavics.
      2. + 12
        15 October 2025 07: 22
        Once again, it's clear that the top brass is full of trainees—all they care about is publicity and cash grabs. These "Terminators" are absolutely useless on a battlefield where drones rule. But the front line needs heavy armored personnel carriers like air. Looking at all this madness with horse-drawn and motorcycle-mounted assaults and one-way infiltrations, the guys in the repair battalions are making heavy armored personnel carriers out of destroyed tanks as best they can. But the rear doesn't see their problems.
        1. 0
          16 October 2025 00: 58
          Quote: olegff68
          But the front needs heavy armored personnel carriers like air.

          But do we really need "large" armored personnel carriers? Nowadays, they fight in threes and fours, and for that number, we could build a compact, wheeled armored personnel carrier with heavy armor and mine protection, just a little larger than a loaf of bread.
          IMHO, this is a series hybrid with a generator without a mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels and a "tank-like" method of turning and steering by braking on one side. The wheels are armored stamped with a solid rubber tire edging. It can even restore the checkerboard pattern of a Knipkamp. This provides additional protection for the lower part of the side from FPV. When running on electric power, it will be barely noticeable in thermal optics and can "work" as a delivery vehicle for personnel and cargo to the front.
          1. -1
            16 October 2025 11: 30
            When you're making up all this nonsense, are you so sure of yourself that people aren't laughing at you? They fight in twos and threes out of desperation. And they even fight on mopeds and horses—but that doesn't indicate any progress.
            A sequential hybrid is a complete mess - heavy, bulky, expensive...
            "Thermo-optics" doesn't care whether an object is hot or cold; it draws an image based on the principle of heat and contrast, not like some ancient infrared seeker that reacts to temperature. And in a serial hybrid, the power source is a classic internal combustion engine.
            And for front-line work, heavy vehicles are needed that can digest mines, and be able to hook a mine trawl, and have a DZ armor around and above that can withstand the installation of additional elements - electronic warfare, nets, screens, etc., etc.
            1. +1
              17 October 2025 22: 15
              There's no scripture that says a squad must travel in a single vehicle, rather than split into two sections. Furthermore, a vehicle with less armor may be better protected and more mobile than a "standard" APC for a squad.
              A battery range of 100-150 km allows for stealth operation at night and in poor weather near the LBS. What's better for a reconnaissance drone or a thermal imaging camera: a car with a running engine or a commuter train without the heat signature of the engine and exhaust?
              Reducing the number of personnel in the ground forces is a new trend. Women have already given up on producing units for war, the Soviet way, if you haven't noticed yet.
              1. 0
                18 October 2025 13: 16
                And you're not too lazy to write all this... One vehicle that can accommodate 10 people per person will cost SEVERAL TIMES less, weigh less, and be much less labor-intensive to maintain than 10 vehicles with the same level of protection, each accommodating 1 person.
                Electric trains are more expensive, weigh more, and are EXTREMELY dangerous—firefighters across the globe still don't have lithium-ion battery extinguishing equipment. And are you planning on charging them with the Holy Spirit, declaring a 10-12 hour truce every time?
                A thermal imager will EQUALLY show a tank with an internal combustion engine, a Tesla, a horse, and a tree well/badly.
                The trend of decreasing ground forces led to the fact that in 22 there was no one to consolidate their positions in the occupied territories, and some of them had to be abandoned, leaving behind the population that had trusted us, and then mobilization was carried out and 300+ new recruits were recruited annually.
                And to avoid forcing women to give birth to future posthumous heroes, we need to start thinking and learning to react to situations much faster, be much more flexible, and not be afraid to make decisions. And yet, we still order floating equipment and dream of parachute landings.
        2. 0
          16 October 2025 01: 42
          Quote: olegff68
          The guys in the repair battalions are making heavy armored personnel carriers from destroyed tanks as best they can. But those in the rear don't see their problems.

          UVZ showed off a prototype of the heavy armored personnel carrier (TBTR) a year ago; they might appear soon. But they'll have to be built from scratch; redesigning the tanks won't cut it.
          1. +1
            16 October 2025 11: 38
            The Jews got away with it—both with their Merkava and with their conversion of Soviet T-55s. It worked in repair battalions at the front. It worked for us with the BMO-T back in the day, too. Now, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of hulls in storage, many of them operational, but the Ministry of Defense and the Military Industrial Complex "don't get away with it"—maybe it's a matter of preference, no?
            But it works with the useless terminator, because you can make a whole PR show out of it—with a "popular vote." I'd like to say how it all looks in the eyes of the people, but you can't swear here.
            1. 0
              16 October 2025 17: 35
              Quote: olegff68
              I would like to say how all this looks in the eyes of the people, but I can’t swear here.

              Our site is chaste and adheres to the canons.
              Quote: olegff68
              But right now there are hundreds, if not thousands of hulls in storage, many of them operational, but the Ministry of Defense and the military-industrial complex are not getting the job done - maybe it depends on desire, no?

              Probably because all the tank repair facilities, as well as those of UVZ and Omsktransmash, are primarily occupied with the extensive modernization of T-72B tanks to B3M, and T-80 BV to BVM. But since UVZ has already demonstrated its heavy armored personnel carrier on the T-90 chassis, it means some work is underway.
              The BMPT was simply in low-volume production, so they simply launched what was available right now. It's better than nothing, but not the best option. It's more rational to cobble together a BMOT with a Kurganets turret from old tanks. The result is a surrogate IFV with the firepower of a Terminator, only with a single 30mm cannon, which is more rational.
              If you look at the people who ran the Ministry of Defense before Belousov's arrival, it's surprising there's anything left in the Army at all. Things seem to have improved under Removich, but we'll see how things go.
            2. 0
              19 October 2025 02: 55
              Quote: olegff68
              It worked for us in the Russian battalions at the front. It worked for us with the BMO-T back in the day, too.


              In rembates, different things work, what exactly do you mean?

              What exactly did BMO-T fail in?
              How many of them survived out of how many were released?
              Why do you think they are not reproduced in the fourth year of surgery?

              Thank you.
              1. +1
                19 October 2025 09: 29
                The point is that repair battalions are making them whenever possible, which means there's a huge demand from soldiers. And the question here isn't how many survived, but how many lives they saved.
                And they don't produce them for the same reason that, by the fourth year of the war, our military-industrial complex hasn't produced a single tactical drone, for the same reason that there's still no active protection system on our vehicles, for the same reason that the Ministry of Defense is still ordering the production (and even the development of new models) of amphibious armored vehicles, for the same reason that in the Airborne Forces, the concept of parachute landing, etc., etc., is still impenetrable stupidity, rigidity, and indifference.
                1. -1
                  19 October 2025 09: 35
                  Quote: olegff68
                  They do it—that means there's a huge demand among soldiers. And the question here isn't how many of them survived, but how many lives they saved.


                  What Rem Bat products do you personally like and why?

                  By the way, how many were saved is a very interesting and key question in the discussion of all kinds of highly armored assault vehicles such as the BMP, TBMP, TBTR, SHMPP BMO-T, etc.
                  1. +2
                    19 October 2025 10: 03
                    You are a true General Staff-level military man - you have a brilliant ability to steer the topic away from practical implementation and into endless talk and discussion.
                    What's there to discuss? Yes, all the BMO-Ts were lost, but the nature of the damage suggests with a high probability that the crews survived. Tank chassis and hulls are better able to withstand mine blasts, can be attached to mine plows, can be outfitted with full-fledged ERA, and can better withstand the added protection of screens, grills, a full-fledged APS, etc.
                    All this talk has been going on for decades, and all these decades (since the early 80s) the infantry rode on top of the armor of amphibious vehicles, and now on motorcycles, horses, and simply on foot.
                    1. 0
                      19 October 2025 10: 56
                      Quote: olegff68
                      You are a true General Staff-level military man - you have a brilliant ability to steer the topic away from practical implementation and into endless talk and discussion.
                      What's there to discuss? Yes, all the BMO-Ts were lost, but the nature of the damage suggests with a high probability that the crews survived. Tank chassis and hulls are better able to withstand mine blasts, can be attached to mine plows, can be outfitted with full-fledged ERA, and can better withstand the added protection of screens, grills, a full-fledged APS, etc.
                      All this talk has been going on for decades, and all these decades (since the early 80s) the infantry rode on top of the armor of amphibious vehicles, and now on motorcycles, horses, and simply on foot.

                      No, it is not real and I don’t claim to be.

                      To keep the topic focused on practical implementation:
                      0. Analyzing the equipment's performance in real-world operating conditions is the key to making the right choice. This leads to the questions: how many were lost, why, how many survived, and why, and why were the vehicles abandoned (as far as I know). If these questions cannot be answered, then a clear-cut choice of the BMO-T is unfounded.
                      1. What Rem Bat products do you personally like and why?
                      2. Do you personally like BMO-T/do you see it as optimal as it is? Or
                      2.1. Do you personally think it needs to be improved/supplemented?
                      2.2. If yes, why and how/with what?

                      It's not my goal to offend or hurt you in any way. I'm interested in people's informed opinions.

                      This site is just endless talk that has little impact on the practical implementation of anything (except for the advertising budgets of the site's owners).

                      There's a faint hope that this site could be a people's armored think tank (spiritual screed from think tank) and that some of the ideas presented here and embodied in repair battalions will actually save someone's life.

                      You comment here for some reason and don’t consider your comments to be empty, endless talk and a diversion from something there.

                      If you're not interested, just ignore me. Your provocative statements about my brilliant abilities have no effect on me. My self-esteem is fine.

                      Thank you. And for appreciating my extraordinary abilities too.
                      1. +1
                        19 October 2025 11: 48
                        All this has been said and discussed 100500 million times since the 80s (almost half a century!) Russian infantry rides over armor because crawling under the armor of our amphibious infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs/APCs) is like crawling into a mass grave – it was incredibly cramped even then, and even more so now, given all the IBP protection, increased ammunition capacity, etc. The armor doesn't hold up to anything – not even small-caliber NATO shells, let alone HEAT warheads. You can't install any serious ERA on them, and mine detonation is a whole other story. All this has been discussed MILLIONS of times, and the situation remains the same – in 22, infantry rode over armor to the SVO.
                        Homemade modifications to hang nets, screens, etc., make this equipment non-floating and non-landable (although neither has ever been done in combat conditions, as it is impossible).
                        So why is it still in service and being purchased today, when there are thousands of tank hulls in storage and they could be converted into armored personnel carriers in 4 years?
                        Justifications? A complete, repairable BMO-T, hundreds of photos confirming the survivability of heavier Bradleys, and banal logic. And also, just look at how much the BMP-3 BMP costs the government.
                        And yes, the final video of the Bradley's defeat—EIGHT FPVs were wasted—eight Carls! And ultimately, the crew fled the immobilized vehicle.
                      2. 0
                        19 October 2025 15: 55
                        Quote: olegff68
                        All this has been said and discussed 100500 million times - since the 80s (almost half a century!)...
                        All this has been discussed MILLIONS of times, but the situation is still the same - in 22, the infantry went to the SVO over the armor.
                        ...
                        Justification? A whole, recoverable BMO-T, hundreds of shots confirming the survivability of heavier Bradleys, and banal logic.


                        I.E. The topic is closed, we need BMO-T as it is.

                        Thank you.
          2. 0
            30 October 2025 21: 13
            UVZ showed off a prototype of the heavy armored personnel carrier (TBTR) a year ago; they might appear soon. But they'll have to be built from scratch; redesigning the tanks won't cut it.

            The Algerians got away with converting the T-62.
            1. 0
              31 October 2025 00: 30
              Quote: Pavel57
              The Algerians got away with converting the T-62.

              In TBTR?
              Or in a ersatz BMPT with the Berezhok module?
              I've seen the latter, I know, but I haven't heard of the TBTR. If it's something like an Israeli conversion of T-55 hulls into TBTRs, then it's not a good option – against natives armed with small arms.
              Kharkiv engineers at KhTZ converted T-55 and T-64 hulls into TBTR-55 and TBTR-64 ​​tanks, and it turned out well. But it required a lot of welding, a reconfigured transmission, and the need for a compact and powerful engine. That's definitely not an option for us right now.
      3. + 10
        15 October 2025 07: 32
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Yes, our wide-lane vehicles don't want to see a heavy armored personnel carrier under any circumstances...

        They want armored vehicles with active defense against drones. This Terminator lacks an anti-aircraft mount with a high-speed rifle-caliber machine gun or a small-caliber automatic cannon with a 300-meter range and visual targeting...or both.
        1. + 10
          15 October 2025 08: 30
          Quote: Konnick

          They want to see armored vehicles with active protection against drones.

          Aren't you laughing? How old is the Arena APS, and how many tanks have they been installed on by 2022? And if it were in service, it would be logical to use it as a basis for drone APS. But there's nothing since 1997!
          And you're talking about wanting a machine gun KAZ... When even the DZ components were collected from people in garages, and I'm afraid they're collecting them because the stripes don't consider them consumables.
          1. -6
            15 October 2025 11: 42
            How old is the Arena APS, and how many tanks have they been installed on by 2022?

            You're practically reciting a mantra. Explain: how do you see the Arena ECU's target recognition algorithm? It detects an incoming ATGM using radar and speed. It's unlikely a bird would fly toward a tank at speeds close to the speed of sound or faster. And here's a small drone barely flying at 60-70 km/h?
            1. +3
              15 October 2025 11: 53
              Quote: PROXOR
              It's like you recited a mantra.
              Ooo, I see that for you, 25 years of doing nothing for the army is the norm.


              Quote: PROXOR
              Explain: How do you envision the Arena ECU's target recognition algorithm? It identifies an incoming ATGM using radar and speed. It's unlikely a bird would approach a tank at speeds approaching the speed of sound or faster.

              And the speed of sound isn't necessary; any speed is enough. For radar. Besides radar, there are also optical sensors, and they've been around for about 10 years. wink AIs that, I dare say, could spot a drone flying overhead. The key here is the desire to do something—and that desire is invisible...

              Quote: PROXOR
              And here's a small drone that's barely flying at 60-70 km/h.
              Well, an RPG grenade is a truly enormous object. Actually, the FPV-ha is an RPG grenade, plus a drone.
              1. 0
                15 October 2025 12: 18
                Ooo, I see that for you, 25 years of doing nothing for the army is the norm.

                So far, I've only seen modernizations of old equipment, and even then, they're not always adequate. Everything remotely adequate is assembled on localized domestic components. Like the thermal imaging sensors we licensed from the French.
                Armata, Boomerang, Coalition, Derivation - what will you answer for them?... oh, I almost forgot, and enlighten me about the A-100.
                And the speed of sound isn't necessary; any speed is enough. For radar. Besides radar, there are also optical sensors, and Wink AI has been around for about 10 years.

                This is complete nonsense. It's no big deal that the SHTORA optical sensors, which the Arena-M APS is based on, detect a laser beam. But it certainly doesn't have a wide-angle camera with a high-resolution matrix. As for AI: yes, it's been around for a while, but our design bureaus are still very far away from mastering it. But there's another obstacle. AI requires an electronic control unit with high computing power. Russia currently has chips using 90nm technology. So imagine an electronic control unit on these chips and its size, so that the computing power would allow AI to identify a drone in a fraction of a second. Let me remind you, but the LMUR still flies under the control of the operator/co-pilot of a Ka-52 or Mi-28. A full-fledged equivalent of the Hellfire or Spike hasn't been developed in Russia.
                Well, an RPG grenade is a truly enormous object. Actually, the FPV-ha is an RPG grenade, plus a drone.

                You're impenetrable: A drone can travel up to 70 km/h, while an RPG-7 grenade can reach around 400 km/h. How can the ECU, using an active phased array (AESA), assess the threat if it can't measure speed?
                1. 0
                  15 October 2025 16: 09
                  A drone can travel up to 70 km/h, while an RPG-7 grenade can travel around 400 km/h. How can the ECU assess the threat using the active phased array (AESA) system? 

                  This is probably a drone with an RPG-7 grenade.
                2. 0
                  15 October 2025 16: 41
                  Quote: PROXOR
                  Armata, Boomerang, Coalition, Derivation - what will you answer for them?... oh, I almost forgot, and enlighten me about the A-100.

                  So, just because you've given up on the Arena, you're justifying our stripes' giving up on even worse? Wonderful logic.
                  Quote: PROXOR
                  This is complete nonsense. It doesn't matter that the optical sensors of the SHTORA, which the Arena-M KAZ uses, detect a laser beam.
                  Hello, this is nonsense you're talking about, a little earlier, about Boomerangs and Coalitions. I wrote about optical sensors in principle; they exist, imagine that, in nature. And they're very widely used, in FPV drones, for example...

                  Quote: PROXOR
                  But there's another obstacle. AI requires an ECU with high computing power.
                  As I understand it, it will be news to you that FPV and not only FPV drones, but also, for example, Lancets, are equipped with guidance systems with AI elements.

                  Quote: PROXOR
                  Let me remind you, but the LMUR still flies under the control of an operator/co-pilot of a Ka-52 or Mi-28. A full-fledged equivalent of the Hellfire or Spike has not yet been released in Russia.

                  Really? Why don't you just find out how many guidance modes the LMUR has and stop spouting nonsense.

                  Quote: PROXOR
                  You're impenetrable: A drone can travel up to 70 km/h, while an RPG-7 grenade can reach around 400 km/h. How can the ECU, using an active phased array (AESA), assess the threat if it can't measure speed?

                  So you kindly missed your own words about sizes?

                  Quote: PROXOR
                  And here is a small drone

                  And yes, why wouldn't radar identify a threat in a low-speed object, compared to an ATGM or a grenade? Generally speaking, several dozen kilometers per hour is a normal speed. Traffic police radars, for example, measure such speeds quite well.
                  Radar can't handle it; there are optics with AI elements. And the nonsense about not being able to assess a threat by speed remains nonsense. Because besides speed, there's also direction. And a low-speed, but incoming object is a threat. It seems like the simplest thing...
                  In general, you, like the lampasniks, will find any, even the most delusional, excuses, just to do nothing.
                  1. -1
                    15 October 2025 17: 53
                    Hello, this is nonsense you're talking about, a little earlier, about Boomerangs and Coalitions. I wrote about optical sensors in principle; they exist, imagine that, in nature. And they're very widely used, in FPV drones, for example...

                    You are fabulous... For you, I see optical sensors and a wide-angle camera as one and the same. Well, well.
                    As I understand it, it will be news to you that FPV and not only FPV drones, but also, for example, Lancets, are equipped with guidance systems with AI elements.
                    And it turns out you've invented a new AI-powered homing head. What a smasher. Forget it. Lancets receive the final target from the operator, and the target tracking system guides it. AI guidance is when the lancet flies in a straight line and detects an object below it. With the help of the AI, it figures out what kind of target it is (a tank, for example) and attacks. Now that's AI. Everything else is pure bullshit!
                    Really? Why don't you just find out how many guidance modes the LMUR has and stop spouting nonsense.
                    There's no video of the capture and tracking in "fire and forget" mode yet; it's all just pure nonsense. It's clear from the video, and pilots on Alkanafter's channel confirmed it: the LMURs are accompanied by a co-pilot and receive guidance. And in the ad... IT'S WRITTEN ON THE FENCE TOO.
                    So you kindly missed your own words about sizes?

                    You're an impenetrable comrade. WHAT DOES SIZE HAVE TO DO WITH IT? A crow is about the same size. A chicken is the same. Do you feel the difference? Or will you just keep reciting your mantra from a textbook?

                    And yes, why wouldn't radar identify a threat in a low-speed object, compared to an ATGM or a grenade? Generally speaking, several dozen kilometers per hour is a normal speed. Traffic police radars, for example, measure such speeds quite well.
                    Radar can't handle it; there are optics with AI elements. And the nonsense about not being able to assess a threat by speed remains nonsense. Because besides speed, there's also direction. And a low-speed, but incoming object is a threat.

                    How many false positives will we end up with? You suggest using a target size comparable to a bird.
                    Hence my thesis that Arena requires a fully-fledged, powerful AI control unit with good computing power to combat FPVs. This unit can automatically distinguish FPVs from birds and fire accurately, based on radar readings and a high-quality, wide-angle camera.
                    In general, you, like the lampasniks, will find any, even the most delusional, excuses, just to do nothing.

                    I don't see your press release about a ready-made active defense system that can combat FPV drones. You better get your act together, or the kosher ones are catching up. They're trying to teach us how to shoot down their Trophy. They're the ones who are stupid. You've already invented everything.

                    P.S.: LEARN THE SUBJECT MATERIAL BEFORE WRITING NONSENSE!
                    1. -1
                      16 October 2025 05: 42
                      Quote: PROXOR
                      You are fabulous... For you, I see optical sensors and a wide-angle camera as one and the same. Well, well.

                      In fact, the core of modern cameras is the video matrix, which is also an optical sensor. If you don't understand the word sensor, here's the word for you.
                      So it's not me who's fabulous here...

                      Quote: PROXOR
                      So, it turns out you've invented a new AI-powered homing head. What a smasher. Forget it. The lancets receive the final target from the operator, and the target tracking system guides it. AI guidance is when the lancet flies in a straight line and detects an object below it. With the help of the AI, it figures out what kind of target it is (a tank, for example) and attacks.
                      This is some old granny talking nonsense. Even automatically locking onto an object marked by the operator as a target requires some AI. The Lancet and even some FPVs support this feature, thanks to their processors. But to stop you from spouting this old granny nonsense, I'll try to explain: this feature is needed to compensate for signal loss when descending to a target from above. And all this is implemented using a standard optical sensor in the camera.

                      Quote: PROXOR
                      There's no video of the capture and tracking in "fire and forget" mode yet; it's all just pure nonsense. It's clear from the video, and pilots on Alkanafter's channel confirmed it: the LMURs are accompanied by a co-pilot and receive guidance. And in the ad... IT'S WRITTEN ON THE FENCE TOO.
                      What were you writing about bullshit? Here you have it in its purest form.
                      Because the homing mode is the first one specified in the specifications, and there are plenty of videos of just the launch, without any image from the missile, and what's important, what whizzed past your consciousness, is that if a launch with homing is implemented, then the image may not exist at all, or it will be IN NO WAY different from the same one under the control of the operator.

                      Quote: PROXOR
                      You're an impenetrable comrade. WHAT DOES SIZE HAVE TO DO WITH IT? A crow is about the same size. A chicken is the same. Do you feel the difference? Or will you just keep reciting your mantra from a textbook?
                      Well, I understand that you'll get stuck trying to figure out what's approaching the armored fighting vehicle—a drone or a chicken—but the radar won't get stuck because shaped charges don't exist without metal. And considering that no chicken or crow in their right mind would fly toward a WORKING armored fighting vehicle, no metal is needed.
                      Quote: PROXOR
                      How many false positives will we end up with? You suggest using a target size comparable to a bird.
                      Hence my thesis that Arena requires a fully-fledged, powerful AI control unit with good computing power to combat FPVs. This unit can automatically distinguish FPVs from birds and fire accurately, based on radar readings and a high-quality, wide-angle camera.

                      Here's a mantra of the purest water, and from some totalitarian sectarians, that is, it turns off the brain...
                      Firstly, the Arena's computing unit didn't respond to objects further than 50 meters away, secondly, it didn't respond to receding objects, thirdly, it responded fairly accurately to different approach speeds, fourthly, it determined distances accurately enough for precise response, and fifthly, it determined target sizes, and much more. In other words, it was quite powerful, back in 1997, actually.
                      Regarding target selection. Already in 1997, the WB confidently identified three parameters necessary for targeting drones, and only based on radar data: direction, distance, and size. That's it, all that's left is to distinguish a drone from a bird or a healthy lump of earth. What year are you stuck in to imagine that this requires some kind of massive power? Optical wink sensors and something at the level of an average smartphone...
                      And to not understand, I repeat, that no one in their right mind would fly towards a huge, roaring piece of iron, this is not even the level of a granny on a bench, but someone from a very parallel reality...


                      Quote: PROXOR
                      P.S.: LEARN THE SUBJECT MATERIAL BEFORE WRITING NONSENSE!

                      Ahaha.
                3. +1
                  15 October 2025 22: 58
                  Sergey, forgive me for interrupting your discussion, but if you pay attention to the latest developments in counter-drone technology in the PLA and NATO armies, you'll notice that radar isn't even being considered. They use optical (digital and thermal) fire control systems with computer-controlled rapid-fire barrel systems for precisely this purpose. Our problem isn't that there's no work on this topic, but that the developers of these developments don't fit into the Rostec system and are therefore as far removed from state defense procurement and funding as the moon is from Earth. So they produce sights for hunters and devices for surveillance, control, and territorial security. This is the face of capitalism; nothing personal—just business.
                  1. 0
                    16 October 2025 09: 42
                    To do this, we need to acknowledge that we'll be using foreign components, and then, yes, we can install the most advanced microcomputers and do whatever we want. But I don't think that fits within military acceptance standards. And there's nothing comparable domestically.
                  2. 0
                    16 October 2025 10: 07
                    Yes and no. Initially, to get the camera to point in the right direction, you need an active electronically scanned array (AESA). It's what points the camera in azimuth and altitude toward the drone. Take a look at the Drone Dome from RAFAEL (Israel). It has both components.

                    Our problem isn't that there's no work on this topic, but that the developers behind it don't fit into the Rostec system and are, therefore, as far removed as the moon from Earth from state defense procurement and funding. So, they produce sights for hunters and devices for surveillance, control, and territorial security. This is the face of capitalism: nothing personal—just business.

                    I wholeheartedly agree. But there's another option. Saturate them through volunteer organizations. Yes, it's difficult and time-consuming. But there's no other way to test the system's effectiveness in combat. And the Russian Ministry of Defense are UNTRAINABLE DEGENERALS.
                    1. -1
                      16 October 2025 11: 34
                      Sergey, if we're talking about additional protection against drones, for example as a supplement to the active protection system on armored vehicles, you're fundamentally wrong. Radar is essentially unnecessary for reliable protection against small, slow-moving targets like drones. This is confirmed by the American "Bullfrog" system, designed specifically for shooting down UAVs, with a fire control system based on an electro-optical sensor for 360-degree surveillance and a computer for target acquisition and guidance. The system weighs 180 kg (including the M240 machine gun). As for "saturation" through volunteer organizations, even the most powerful and widespread volunteer movement cannot replace the military-industrial complex.
                      1. +1
                        16 October 2025 13: 01
                        Confirmation of this is the American "Bullfrog" installation, created specifically for shooting down UAVs, with a fire control system based on an electro-optical sensor that provides a 360-degree view and a computer for searching and targeting.

                        Well, only if they implement the OLS target search option there. It's a theory untested in practice. The potheads have Israeli drone-hunting systems in their air defense systems, while ours have Chinese ones. It was recently mentioned in the news. And both options have active phased array (AESA) systems.
                        As for "saturation" through volunteer organizations, even the most powerful and massive volunteer movement is not capable of replacing the military-industrial complex.

                        I completely agree with you, but in order to show the lampasniks the effectiveness, you have to start somewhere.
                        The same FPVs and Mavs brought by volunteers paved the way for factory-made products to reach the Russian Ministry of Defense. The road is mastered by the one who walks it.
                        Anyone expecting contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense without deliveries to the SVO smacks more of a search for grants from the Russian Ministry of Defense than of real success.
                      2. -1
                        16 October 2025 15: 25
                        Sergey, we're talking about slightly different things. You're talking about drone defense and air defense coverage for stationary targets, and I'm talking about protecting equipment and troops on the march and on the battlefield. And by the way, the Americans aren't the only ones implementing such systems; take a closer look at the latest developments in barrel-based air defense systems abroad.
      4. -2
        15 October 2025 10: 52
        It won't be heavy, forget it, the infantry will get there on foot
    2. + 10
      15 October 2025 06: 35
      Quote: air wolf
      I think we need armored personnel carriers more.
      The BMO-T, a tank-based armored personnel carrier (APC), could be developed as a highly protected APC for assault teams (4-6 personnel per vehicle). A BMPT and TBTR variant on a single tank chassis would serve as a bridge between transport and firepower. The specialization, eliminating the transport compartment (BMPT) and the turret size and weight (TBTR), would enhance protection in both cases. A universal option would include an unmanned weapons module in the turret.
      1. -1
        15 October 2025 08: 57
        Quote: Per se.
        Quote: air wolf
        I think we need armored personnel carriers more.
        The BMO-T, a tank-based armored personnel carrier (APC), could be developed as a highly protected APC for assault teams (4-6 personnel per vehicle). A BMPT and TBTR variant on a single tank chassis would serve as a bridge between transport and firepower. The specialization, eliminating the transport compartment (BMPT) and the turret size and weight (TBTR), would enhance protection in both cases. A universal option would include an unmanned weapons module in the turret.

        It's like BMO - You're all lost =>
        unarmed, even a reinforced concrete dugout on a chassis, it is only a matter of time before it is destroyed
        1. 0
          16 October 2025 02: 07
          Did you look closely at the third picture from Per sе.?
          This is the appearance of the SHMPP. The BM can also have an automatic grenade launcher for high-excursion fire at the rear of the module.
          1. -1
            16 October 2025 03: 11
            Quote: bayard
            Did you look closely at the third picture from Per sе.?
            This is the appearance of the SHMPP. The BM can also have an automatic grenade launcher for high-excursion fire at the rear of the module.


            I see you've recovered a bit from the hallucinations of the AGSs on the Epoch.

            "MAYBE" - This is what separates a sober-minded person from someone hallucinating about simple, cheap, and quick solutions right now and reworking them using non-existent DUBMs and reassembling the entire hull's internals (in terms of your ideas for the TBT) at any repair plant.

            Good luck in your dreams.

            Let there be such a DUBM (I'M ALL FOR IT), but it seems to me that we can't do without R&D => BUDGET, TIMELINE, ETC. (Well, you should understand it as StratEG)

            By the way, what do you think is stopping UVZ, which has clearly had a vehicle very similar to the TBTR you coveted for over a year, from delivering at least a pilot batch to the troops?

            I'm really interested in StratEG's opinion! Honestly!
            1. 0
              16 October 2025 03: 28
              Haven't you choked on bile yet, you ignoramus?
              Automatic fire alarm system on Berezhka and Epoch can be an option.
              Once again, the question is: did you look at the third picture carefully?
              Have you seen the TBTR-64 ​​from KhTZ?
              Now reread your nonsense. You need treatment, because this is definitely unhealthy.
              Quote: Eng Mech
              By the way, what do you think is stopping UVZ, which has clearly had for over a year a vehicle very similar to the TBTR you covet, from delivering at least a pilot batch to the troops?

              Unfinished cycle of testing, fine-tuning and preparation of the assembly line and cooperation for serial production.
              Quote: Eng Mech
              I'm interested in strategist's opinion!

              For you, he's just a former operative.
              1. -1
                16 October 2025 03: 45
                Quote: bayard

                Automatic fire alarm system on Berezhka and Epoch can be an option.
                .

                There is metal in the bank
                In the era of your dreams. (At least a link to the studio for a drawing, a model! I'm asking for the №th time.)

                I would also understand that you want an era with Lsho, which is at least in the layout.

                Learn to admit your mistakes with dignity, uncle.
                1. 0
                  16 October 2025 04: 25
                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  In the era of In your dreams.

                  There are no problems with such an installation on any suitable module. And they rode at the "Epoch of AGS" parade.
                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  Learn to admit your mistakes with dignity, uncle.

                  You don't need to study, because you are already unworthy.
                  1. -1
                    16 October 2025 04: 37
                    Quote: bayard
                    Quote: Eng Mech
                    In the era of In your dreams.

                    There are no problems with such an installation on any suitable module. And they rode at the "Epoch of AGS" parade.
                    Quote: Eng Mech
                    Learn to admit your mistakes with dignity, uncle.

                    You don't need to study, because you are already unworthy.


                    Would you like a picture of the parade in the studio? I'm sure it's not a cockroach parade in your head.

                    Naturally, I offer my deepest apologies in advance for distracting you from solving global operational-strategic problems (because you certainly can’t be called operationally tactical).

                    Were there any Napoleons in your family?
                    1. -1
                      16 October 2025 04: 42
                      What, couldn't resist, Arkasha?
                      You better control yourself. Hold on tighter.
                      1. 0
                        16 October 2025 04: 45
                        Quote: bayard
                        What, couldn't resist, Arkasha?
                        You better control yourself. Hold on tighter.


                        It's still painful to read you, Borya.
                        And it’s a shame for the country.
                        Boris, you are wrong!

                        Don't forget to take a photo from the parade, even with cockroaches.
                      2. -1
                        16 October 2025 04: 49
                        What, it doesn't hold? No.
                        This is a disease.
                        Soulful.
                      3. 0
                        16 October 2025 04: 49
                        Quote: bayard
                        What, it doesn't hold? No.
                        This is a disease.
                        Soulful.


                        You know better, you have more experience!
                      4. -1
                        16 October 2025 04: 51
                        I've come across some like this before.
                        Perhaps your relatives.
              2. -1
                16 October 2025 03: 57
                Quote: bayard

                just a former operative!
                .


                Not for service, but for friendship:

                Give me more minuses, please, until I have three stripes on my shoulder strap.

                I like Adilas's style better.

                And it will become easier for you.

                Thank you, our OperationalStrategic!
                1. -1
                  16 October 2025 04: 25
                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  Give me more minuses,

                  Yes, you're welcome - you deserve it.
          2. -1
            16 October 2025 03: 26
            Quote: bayard
            Did you look closely at the third picture from Per sе.?
            This is the appearance of the SHMPP. The BM can also have an automatic grenade launcher for high-excursion fire at the rear of the module.


            Of course I saw it before. Per se.

            Well, by the way, why don't they still have them, at least in this non-AGS form?

            How to strategize a boy, please explain!

            Thank you, uncle!
            1. -1
              16 October 2025 03: 32
              Why can't the boy sleep?
              Time zone wrong?
              What is the Boy's time zone?
              Quote: Eng Mech
              Why don't they still have them, at least in this non-AGS form?

              Well, since the old T-72As were dragged off for reworking, maybe now they will be.
              Quote: Eng Mech
              Of course I saw it before. Per se.

              You're lying again, boy.
              1. -1
                16 October 2025 03: 40
                Quote: bayard
                Why can't the boy sleep?
                Time zone wrong?
                What is the Boy's time zone?
                Quote: Eng Mech
                Why don't they still have them, at least in this non-AGS form?

                Well, since the old T-72As were dragged off for reworking, maybe now they will be.
                Quote: Eng Mech
                Of course I saw it before. Per se.

                You're lying again, boy.


                Stop profiling me and making baseless accusations.

                Why can't you sleep?

                By the way, I might have agreed with you if you had suggested a completely armored shore. I think that there is an opportunity to remove the crew below the tower ring.
                1. -1
                  16 October 2025 04: 18
                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  Why can't you sleep?

                  I'm listening to how "Geraniums" are going to their targets.
                  Quote: Eng Mech
                  By the way, I might have agreed with you if you had suggested a completely armored shore.

                  Who's going to ask for your consent? I'm quite happy with the BMOT with the Kurganets module.
                  1. -1
                    16 October 2025 04: 33
                    Quote: bayard
                    Quote: Eng Mech
                    Why can't you sleep?

                    I'm listening to how "Geraniums" are going to their targets.
                    Quote: Eng Mech
                    By the way, I might have agreed with you if you had suggested a completely armored shore.

                    Who's going to ask for your consent? I'm quite happy with the BMOT with the Kurganets module.


                    I don't need anyone to ask.

                    And your opinion is unlikely to be of interest to anyone except me (unless it is solely for the purpose of researching various streams of near-technical consciousness, but the labor costs of analyzing your visions are very high, so I will probably try to ignore you).

                    Well, thank God, all that remains is to figure out which vision suits you.
                    1. -1
                      16 October 2025 04: 37
                      Quote: Eng Mech
                      And your opinion is unlikely to be of interest to anyone except me.

                      This is a misconception.
                      Quote: Eng Mech
                      I guess I'll try to ignore you).

                      Yes, please do me a favor.
                      1. -1
                        16 October 2025 04: 40
                        Quote: bayard
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        And your opinion is unlikely to be of interest to anyone except me.

                        This is a misconception.
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        I guess I'll try to ignore you).

                        Yes, please do me a favor.



                        You should probably ignore me too, because I am responsive and, as a rule, sensitive to other people’s mental and technical suffering.

                        But I would like to study the picture from the parade.

                        Thank you, my dear!
                      2. -1
                        16 October 2025 04: 47
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        otherwise I'm responsive,

                        You, Arakasha, are spiritually humble. Try to get treatment. And stay away from technical fantasies, they are unhealthy.
                      3. -1
                        16 October 2025 04: 48
                        Quote: bayard
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        otherwise I'm responsive,

                        You, Arakasha, are spiritually humble. Try to get treatment. And stay away from technical fantasies, they are unhealthy.


                        I'll do my best after the photo from the parade.
                      4. -1
                        16 October 2025 04: 50
                        Now this is already an obsession.

                        This is for the doctors.
                      5. -1
                        16 October 2025 04: 51
                        Quote: bayard
                        Now this is already an obsession.

                        This is for the doctors.


                        Youth has won (youthful enthusiasm in your soul)!
                      6. -1
                        16 October 2025 04: 54
                        You will overcome your enthusiasm.
          3. -1
            13 November 2025 05: 30
            Quote: bayard
            Did you look closely at the third picture from Per sе.?
            This is the appearance of the SHMPP. The BM can also have an automatic grenade launcher for high-excursion fire at the rear of the module.


            Well, just to be fair and out of respect for your cardboard shoulder straps:

            Then let it be that you meant the DUBM Spica-AGS from BA Vystrel.
      2. +2
        15 October 2025 11: 44
        Well, until the first drone breaches the defense, and then what? The infantry also advances.
        Speed ​​is now more crucial for safety than armor, which is why guys are actively using motorcycles.
        1. +4
          15 October 2025 14: 44
          Quote: PROXOR
          That's why the guys actively use motor vehicles.
          So, "we haven't even started yet," throwing anti-tank mines into dugouts and tearing around on mopeds—that's just the beginning; the real story lies ahead. With tactics like these, even Makhno's tachankas will soon be in demand. The "SVO" is something where the fleet hides in Novorossiysk, there's no air superiority, and at the same time, trade with our enemies continues. There will be no positional stalemate, no established positions, no areas targeted by operators, and the dominance of drones is unlikely to remain the same. A mobile, large-scale war, especially one involving nuclear weapons, is a different matter, and mopeds will have no place there.
      3. 0
        15 October 2025 11: 58
        Quote: Per se.
        Quote: air wolf
        I think we need armored personnel carriers more.
        The BMO-T, a tank-based armored personnel carrier (APC), could be developed as a highly protected APC for assault teams (4-6 personnel per vehicle). A BMPT and TBTR variant on a single tank chassis would serve as a bridge between transport and firepower. The specialization, eliminating the transport compartment (BMPT) and the turret size and weight (TBTR), would enhance protection in both cases. A universal option would include an unmanned weapons module in the turret.

        Of course, you can and should downvote me, but when UVZ rolls out what's been in development for over a year, we'll see how the division of heavy-duty vehicle functions works in practice.

        For example, I haven't seen the video of how the assault participants boasted about how they deftly, with the support of a heavy infantry fighting vehicle and a tank, rolled up in a BMO-T right to the enemy's trench, despite the fierce shelling, and threw hand grenades (helmets, hats, shovel handles, or MSL) at the enemy.

        Thank you for the response in the form of a link to such a video.
      4. +1
        15 October 2025 14: 08
        There are combat modules from the BTR-82a, which could be used to enhance the firepower of the BMO-t.
      5. +2
        15 October 2025 14: 20
        However, the catch is that 30-mm cannons must be supplemented with an automatic grenade launcher, since it is precisely this that makes it possible to destroy manpower in trenches and behind folds of terrain.

        Why not an automatic 82mm mortar? The Vasilek would be much more appropriate than grenade launchers.
        1. +1
          15 October 2025 14: 22
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Why not an automatic 82mm mortar? The Vasilek would be much more appropriate than grenade launchers.

          You can't throw a mine out the window. The AGS is versatile... both a flat trajectory and an overhead one.
          1. +2
            15 October 2025 14: 29
            Moreover, the Berezhok IFV has a simple turret-mounted AG with 300 rounds of ammunition.
        2. 0
          15 October 2025 21: 36
          Have you even seen someone fire a Vasilok? Have you seen them load it? How is it cocked? Is there a gas bleed? It's a fundamentally manual machine, requiring a complete redesign for automation, as would the ammunition. A mine with powder pouches is basically unusable in an automatic weapon; the cartridge case needs to be redesigned.
          The level of comments is falling lower and lower.
          But these are marshal's shoulder straps.
          1. 0
            15 October 2025 22: 09
            The level of comments is falling lower and lower.
            But these are marshal's shoulder straps.

            Let me remind you that the Vasilek is a descendant of the caponier mortar, so the problem of use in confined spaces was solved even before the appearance of the field model.
            Moreover, the Hungarians and Poles installed Vasilek on their combat vehicles without any problems. We also had it on armored trains during the Chechen campaign and on T-62 tanks.
            1. 0
              15 October 2025 22: 17
              Marshal, you're throwing around negatives, you understand practically nothing. Once again, for those who are particularly slow. The Vasilek is a purely manual vehicle; when mounted on a vehicle, the crew must be on the roof. When mounted in a turret, the current design makes it impossible to vent the propellant gases; the crew would suffocate.
              Are you going to throw the minus sign "godfather" again? You're a cardboard marshal.
              The marshals here increasingly arouse both anger and contempt.
              1. -1
                16 October 2025 11: 33
                When installed in a turret, the removal of powder gases is impossible with the existing design; the crew will suffocate.

                You don't know that the caponier version of the Vasilek had a different design and a water-cooled barrel. Also, the inertia of thinking that everything should be in the turret is flawed.
                A modular mortar mount located outside the vehicle's crew compartment is more efficient. The remote feed mechanism for forty-round cassettes has also been around for about 15 years. Nothing new under the sun.
                Marshal made of cardboard.
                The marshals here increasingly arouse both anger and contempt.

                Are you worried about the downsides, or are you tempted to curl up with virtual shoulder straps?
                Believe me, my dear, I have enough of my own three real stars in life.
                By the way, to earn a minus from me you have to try really hard, good luck...
                1. 0
                  16 October 2025 11: 36
                  A caponier version of the Vasilek? A remote magazine feed mechanism? A modular mortar mount? A tank with a Vasilek on the roof?
                  What the hell am I reading here?
                  Sir, have you even seen the Vasilek system and the process of preparing 82mm mortar shells and cassettes for firing? Can it be mounted on a tank chassis?
      6. +1
        16 October 2025 02: 02
        Quote: Per se.
        As a universal option, there is an unmanned weapons module in the turret.

        I find the third image very interesting and promising. As a heavy armored personnel carrier, the BMOT is rather poor with its mounting and dismounting features. But as a base for an infantry support assault vehicle, with the Kurganets module installed, and with the ability to carry several troops, it's very promising. And it's promising specifically for converting old tanks from storage into such highly useful vehicles. Converting the T-72A into such a vehicle would be entirely rational. It's clear that it's a surrogate compared to a proper heavy armored personnel carrier with a front engine compartment and a convenient rear ramp, and even more so compared to a proper heavy infantry fighting vehicle on the same chassis, but as a useful assault vehicle from a tank in wartime conditions, it's a perfectly acceptable solution.
        1. +1
          16 October 2025 06: 24
          Quote: bayard
          It would be quite rational to convert the T-72A into such vehicles.

          During the redesign, the "missile tank" concept could be revisited (remember the IT-1). The missiles have become more powerful and compact, and replacing the heavy and bulky tank gun with missiles and an auxiliary 57mm cannon with a machine gun and grenade launcher would allow for better use of the tank's size and weight to enhance protection.
          1. +1
            16 October 2025 15: 53
            Why create new entities when the BM "Epoch" already has four long-range ATGMs? If the 30mm cannon caliber is deemed insufficient, a module with a 57mm cannon with reduced ballistics can be installed, but this will significantly reduce the ammo capacity and rate of fire. The single base of a converted T-72A BMOT with a combat module allows for a relatively quick and inexpensive ersatz TBMP/ShMPP to be used alongside the prospective UVZ heavy armored personnel carrier with the correct configuration, which has been undergoing testing and refinement for at least a year.
            They abandoned that very missile tank at the time, teaching ordinary tanks to fire ATGMs through the barrel, and later, equipping the IFV with launchers for ATGMs.
            We need optimal, uniform combat vehicles that industry can produce at maximum speed, at the lowest cost, and in large quantities. And not only the T-72A, but also older tanks, up to the T-55, can be converted into such ersatz TBMP/ShMPP vehicles. And unification of the combat module with the promising BMP-3M "Manul" will make production and operation even more convenient and reduce production costs due to mass production.
    3. +3
      15 October 2025 08: 49
      I also believe we need a T72-based equivalent of the Israeli Achzarit—it's much more useful than the inferior variant. I've been critical of the concept of this vehicle for a long time—even before the widespread use of drones, I considered it conceptually very outdated. The concept is poorly thought out.
      But now, doing them just to get something done is extremely wasteful.
    4. -5
      15 October 2025 10: 49
      huge losses?..............
    5. -4
      15 October 2025 20: 45
      Quote: air wolf
      Infantry is the queen of the fields, I think we need armored personnel carriers based on the T-72, yesterday I saw another one of our meat assaults with huge losses,

      So go ahead, who's stopping you? It seems like T-72s were supplied from Europe to the 404 and are still being planned.
    6. -1
      16 October 2025 10: 16
      A question about the T-72-based armored personnel carrier (APC). What should it be like? If the Russian Ministry of Defense requests a barebones version (equal to the BTR-80/82A armament, with additional armor protection against FPV drones), there will be criticism of its armament. Why aren't you considering mass production of similar vehicles like the BMPT to support both APCs and tanks? A barbecue grill could be installed on it. There's an example with top-mounted closure. Plus, don't forget that eliminating the two automatic grenade launchers allows for more coverage.
      For my part, I can note that the presence of this vehicle in the troops will have a positive impact on the LBS, fortunately there are positive reviews.
      1. 0
        16 October 2025 12: 10
        Only tank armor can save infantry in armored personnel carriers, look how well the Bradley performs in the south hi
        And small rivers can be crossed by wading underwater drinks
  3. +1
    15 October 2025 06: 40
    A fairly highly specialized anti-infantry tank for supporting IFVs/APCs.
  4. +3
    15 October 2025 07: 28
    The suspension will also need to be modernized—in particular, as sources indicate, the torsion bar twist angles will need to be changed in order to provide the chassis with a nose-up tilt.

    The suspension was simply designed to compensate for the weight of the gun.
    1. +3
      15 October 2025 09: 04
      Quote: Konnick
      The suspension will also need to be modernized—in particular, as sources indicate, the torsion bar twist angles will need to be changed in order to provide the chassis with a nose-up tilt.

      The suspension was simply designed to compensate for the weight of the gun.

      Attach a bulldozer blade-shield-lowboy to compensate for weight loss
      1. 0
        15 October 2025 09: 26
        Smart solution! No hydraulics, chain lift.
        1. 0
          15 October 2025 10: 26
          Quote: Andrey_i_K
          Smart solution! No hydraulics, chain lift.


          I'm proud of myself!
          I can't say anything about the drive, I need to think about it.

          Perhaps some kind of ground stops/tracks driven by an air compressor are possible.

          Then, as the car moves, it all lifts until it reaches the automatic stop. The stops are retracted.

          You can drop it on the ground without a drive.
          1. 0
            15 October 2025 21: 45
            As a Terminator, this vehicle is practically useless, but as a mine-clearing or evacuation vehicle, supplemented with a Terminator module, it makes sense. I mentioned this recently.
            https://topwar.ru/272125-boevaja-mashina-podderzhki-tankov-poka-postavljaetsja-v-vojska-bez-nazvanija.html
  5. +4
    15 October 2025 07: 42
    A redesign is a must! Improve the combat module, increase ammunition capacity, improve drone protection, and we'll get a lot of great vehicles.
  6. Owl
    +1
    15 October 2025 07: 51
    Whether to use the hull, or replace everything else, such as the engine, or overhaul it, will become clear from the Ministry of Defense's orders what the end result will be: a heavy armored personnel carrier, a BMPT, or a chassis for the TOS.
    1. +1
      15 October 2025 21: 54
      Let's disarm ourselves completely, like sailors. am And then we won't even be able to fight off motorboats. We'll take off the cannons, take off the machine guns, and go into battle in covered trucks. wassat Remove the 125mm gun from a tank? We've got to think of that! am
      1. -1
        16 October 2025 02: 26
        What if this gun has been destroyed by corrosion over the years of storage? Or what if it was removed to replace the barrel of a battle tank that was shot through (I've seen photos from storage depots of piles of tanks with their turrets and guns removed). The remaining hull could be converted into a BMOT with a Kurganets turret, making it a very useful infantry support assault vehicle capable of carrying a small force of troops. Tanks with damaged turrets could also be converted into similar vehicles.
        But it would be a sin to destroy a full-fledged tank with a gun suitable for firing.
        But the BMOT with the Kurganets turret, a photo of which Per se posted above, is a very promising vehicle in our conditions. In the absence of a proper heavy infantry fighting vehicle, such a ShMPP will be very useful in the Air Defense Forces and future wars. Along with tanks and heavy armored personnel carriers (which UVZ is currently developing). And no Terminator will be wanted.
  7. +1
    15 October 2025 07: 55
    Didn't the captured Strykers spark any thoughts in the heads of the striped "academicians"?
    1. +1
      15 October 2025 09: 28
      They are ashamed that they screwed up earlier...
    2. +3
      15 October 2025 11: 39
      Quote: Maverick1812
      Didn't the captured Strykers spark any thoughts in the heads of the striped "academicians"?

      These thoughts were there long before the trophies. Remember "Boomerang"?
      The problem is that between thought and technology in the military there must be industry.
  8. +1
    15 October 2025 07: 55
    Great name, understandable to everyone everywhere. No need to rename anything.
  9. +5
    15 October 2025 08: 16
    I served on them in my time! They were reliable machines. I don't know what these newfangled B3Ms are like, but the 72A, for a mechanic, was excellent.
    The only real pain, but that's true for all armored vehicles, is replacing the track pins. I'm embarrassed to admit, but in two years I've broken three sledgehammers trying to knock them out.
    Sorry for the off topic.
    1. +1
      15 October 2025 08: 51
      Quote: Panadol
      I broke 3 sledgehammers in two years

      And they didn't put you in jail for damaging government property?
      1. +2
        15 October 2025 09: 54
        No. An entire regiment was in storage. So, for the training and combat group, there was always an instrument! laughing
        Seriously, it's time to do something about this mess. The hexagonal pins wear out and turn into crankshafts. And nothing has been invented as an extraction tool other than a sledgehammer. Of course, the troops have their Poddubnys and Zhabotinskys. But there aren't enough of them. There aren't enough for everyone. And the chassis needs repairs.
        1. +2
          15 October 2025 09: 56
          It seems they found many ways to fix the ill-conceived decisions made with the T72 on the captured Challenger, and they could have used some of the solutions from the T80 chassis. But... UVZ doesn't need that.
        2. 0
          15 October 2025 16: 48
          The hexagonal pins, when developed, turn into crankshafts.

          They should not be worn out when the nuts are tightened correctly.
          It’s no wonder that the spare parts kit includes torque wrenches.
          The Omsk track is indeed outdated today. But tracks are consumables, so they'll be installing the new 172-type, based on the 219-type.
  10. +2
    15 October 2025 08: 21
    The Berezhok module, however, breaks down if there is a 3-person crew and a grenade launcher is still needed.

    Only then LSHO-57 would be ideal.

    And Mr. Gusev already proposed a tower with automatic grenade launchers and anti-tank missiles, but then at least 4 people would be needed.
    1. +1
      15 October 2025 08: 32
      Quote: Eng Mech
      And Mr. Gusev already proposed a tower with automatic grenade launchers and anti-tank missiles, but then at least 4 people would be needed.

      I've already written that the Americans in Iraq spent more automatic grenade launcher rounds than small arms ammunition. On flat terrain, they simply kept the infantry at bay, taking advantage of their longer firing range...
      1. -3
        15 October 2025 08: 35
        Quote: Konnick
        Quote: Eng Mech
        And Mr. Gusev already proposed a tower with automatic grenade launchers and anti-tank missiles, but then at least 4 people would be needed.

        I've already written that the Americans in Iraq spent more automatic grenade launcher rounds than small arms ammunition. On flat terrain, they simply kept the infantry at bay, taking advantage of their longer firing range...


        Probably, but I can’t imagine where these anti-AGS activists come from?
        1. 0
          15 October 2025 08: 38
          Quote: Ing Mech
          Quote: Konnick
          Quote: Eng Mech
          And Mr. Gusev already proposed a tower with automatic grenade launchers and anti-tank missiles, but then at least 4 people would be needed.

          I've already written that the Americans in Iraq spent more automatic grenade launcher rounds than small arms ammunition. On flat terrain, they simply kept the infantry at bay, taking advantage of their longer firing range...


          Probably, but I can’t imagine where these anti-AGS activists come from?

          I wonder if it's possible to attach a low-level fire control system to the existing BMPT turret instead of a second 30mm one, and ammunition selectivity for both?
          1. +2
            15 October 2025 10: 38
            The LShO isn't belt-fed. The patent drawing shows a hopper on the breech, where rounds are fed through a special sleeve. The hopper holds 3-5 rounds, and reloading after emptying occurs in a strictly defined barrel position, like on the BMP-3 "hundredth" (100-mm) turret. It's a bit of a challenge sharing the same turret with the "thirty."
            1. -2
              15 October 2025 10: 52
              Quote: Xenofont
              The LShO isn't belt-fed. The patent drawing shows a hopper on the breech, where rounds are fed through a special sleeve. The hopper holds 3-5 rounds, and reloading after emptying occurs in a strictly defined barrel position, like on the BMP-3 "hundredth" (100-mm) turret. It's a bit of a challenge sharing the same turret with the "thirty."


              Well, it’s clear that there’s no way to do it without some reworking.

              There is also tapeless feeding.

              There is finally a project of the Epoch with LShO.

              Perhaps it would be possible for "effective managers" to switch on group self-preservation mode.
              It's not enough to just parasitize on the ruins of a previous, more highly developed civilization.

              By the way, it would be interesting if in the era the ammo capacity of the 30mm AP was halved and a dual mount with LShO was attached (or the dimensions of the module were increased slightly)
              1. +2
                15 October 2025 10: 58
                So, that's what we're talking about in regards to the Epoch design. The original LShO mounted on the mount has a top-mounted hopper and no other loading mechanism. But these are just details.
                1. -2
                  15 October 2025 11: 06
                  Quote: Xenofont
                  So, that's what we're talking about in regards to the Epoch design. The original LShO mounted on the mount has a top-mounted hopper and no other loading mechanism. But these are just details.

                  Nooooo, this can't be.
                  There's a little gnome there changing magazines in the DUBM.
                  What is this in the center then?
                  1. +1
                    15 October 2025 11: 22
                    I clearly wrote about the feed sleeve on the Epoch. There are drawings from the patent. But it's all empty.
                    1. -2
                      15 October 2025 11: 32
                      Quote: Xenofont
                      I clearly wrote about the feed sleeve on the Epoch. There are drawings from the patent. But it's all empty.


                      I understand that your clear description only implies magazine loading. And only from above, which is naturally impossible on a DUBM.

                      That is, you simply demonstrated greater awareness of the design than I did, and I, from the depths of my amateurism, thought that you were claiming that it is impossible to use LShO in a remote-controlled missile system in principle.
                      1. +1
                        15 October 2025 11: 40
                        You're being inappropriate! Your invective against me is completely unnecessary. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, and my information may be outdated. And I never intended to offend you!
                      2. -2
                        15 October 2025 11: 47
                        Quote: Xenofont
                        You're being inappropriate! Your invective against me is completely unnecessary. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, and my information may be outdated. And I never intended to offend you!


                        I wasn't offended, thanks for the info (again, not a sacred word).
    2. +2
      15 October 2025 08: 55
      Don't think the AGS option is what's needed. It's just another patch, just to make something work. When a tank fights at ranges of tens of meters, that's a terrible use of armor. The entire concept of this IFV is very crude and poorly thought out. It was simply cobbled together from whatever was at hand. That's probably how it should be when there's only a month left for a decisive battle. But it's a completely inadequate solution for mass-producing hundreds of vehicles. A proper concept needs to be thought out and implemented.
      1. -2
        15 October 2025 09: 01
        Quote: multicaat
        Don't think the AGS option is what's needed. It's just another patch, just to make something work. When a tank fights at ranges of tens of meters, that's a terrible use of armor. The entire concept of this IFV is very crude and poorly thought out. It was simply cobbled together from whatever was at hand. That's probably how it should be when there's only a month left for a decisive battle. But it's a completely inadequate solution for mass-producing hundreds of vehicles. A proper concept needs to be thought out and implemented.



        There is no concept, but we have to fight; tanks don’t work very well.

        AGSs are still not tens of meters, especially in the form of cornflowers and lsh
        1. -1
          15 October 2025 09: 09
          Quote: Eng Mech
          AGSs are still not tens of meters, especially in the form of cornflowers and lsh

          The problem is in targeting. They won't be able to use them otherwise.
          Despite a number of improvements, the BMPT remains a semi-blind tank, and this is its main problem.
          1. -2
            15 October 2025 10: 34
            Quote: multicaat
            Quote: Eng Mech
            AGSs are still not tens of meters, especially in the form of cornflowers and lsh

            The problem is in targeting. They won't be able to use them otherwise.
            Despite a number of improvements, the BMPT remains a semi-blind tank, and this is its main problem.


            In general, they say that the sights are good.
            And I read that up to 40% of targets are hit with AGS.

            In fact, as far as I remember, even the T-28 (the three-turreted equivalent of the BMPT) performed quite well during the early stages of WWII. I even read excerpts from a story where it terrorized an entire city behind enemy lines, just like in a shooter, until it ran out of ammo.
            1. +2
              15 October 2025 10: 59
              Quote: Eng Mech
              In general, they say that the sights are good.
              And I read that up to 40% of targets are hit with AGS.

              What specific targets? What and at what distance will you find even using the best panorama from the Sosna-U tanks?
              What is needed is a radically more serious awareness on the battlefield, which low-mounted optics and thermal sensors are physically incapable of providing.
              Various surveillance systems are also needed, starting with drones and integration with other reconnaissance assets, including even target designation from artillery reconnaissance radars.
              This is the only way to provide truly serious support to tanks.
              How did the Germans arrive at a five-man crew for a tank? They simply prescribed all the crew's functions and hired enough people to handle them.
              So, in the case of the BMPT, we need to start with the functions that the vehicle must perform.
              And only then adjust the material implementation to suit them.
              But with us it’s the other way around - first we make a car from what we have, and then we try to figure out why we need it.
              1. 0
                15 October 2025 11: 09
                Quote: multicaat
                Quote: Eng Mech
                In general, they say that the sights are good.
                And I read that up to 40% of targets are hit with AGS.

                What specific targets? What and at what distance will you find even using the best panorama from the Sosna-U tanks?
                What is needed is a radically more serious awareness on the battlefield, which low-mounted optics and thermal sensors are physically incapable of providing.
                Various surveillance systems are also needed, starting with drones and integration with other reconnaissance assets, including even target designation from artillery reconnaissance radars.
                This is the only way to provide truly serious support to tanks.
                How did the Germans arrive at a five-man crew for a tank? They simply prescribed all the crew's functions and hired enough people to handle them.
                So, in the case of the BMPT, we need to start with the functions that the vehicle must perform.
                And only then adjust the material implementation to suit them.
                But with us it’s the other way around - first we make a car from what we have, and then we try to figure out why we need it.

                The main sight is said to be very good.

                Who's stopping both of these AGS niks from also turning them into drone carriers with automatic reconnaissance drone launch from the armored container in the back?

                Well, it’s clear that this is not a question for them as effective managers.
                I.E. The question is rhetorical
              2. 0
                13 November 2025 06: 43
                Quote: multicaat
                Quote: Eng Mech
                In general, they say that the sights are good.
                And I read that up to 40% of targets are hit with AGS.

                What specific targets? What and at what distance will you find even using the best panorama from the Sosna-U tanks?
                What is needed is a radically more serious awareness on the battlefield, which low-mounted optics and thermal sensors are physically incapable of providing.
                Various surveillance systems are also needed, starting with drones and integration with other reconnaissance assets, including even target designation from artillery reconnaissance radars.
                This is the only way to provide truly serious support to tanks.
                How did the Germans arrive at a five-man crew for a tank? They simply prescribed all the crew's functions and hired enough people to handle them.
                So, in the case of the BMPT, we need to start with the functions that the vehicle must perform.
                And only then adjust the material implementation to suit them.
                But with us it’s the other way around - first we make a car from what we have, and then we try to figure out why we need it.


                By the way, I just thought:

                BMPT can be re-deciphered as:
                Combat (which is why it is heavily armored)
                By car
                Suppression (this does not necessarily mean destruction)
                Points (VARIOUS firing points (camouflaged, long-term, short-term, tank-hazardous, infantry-hazardous, mobile, stationary, armored, unarmored ...))

                If only they could teach this machine to fight drones, which can be considered in the context of decoding as highly mobile, remote-controlled, disposable firing points (BY THE WAY, BOTH AGS CAN ALSO BE OPERATORS OF DRONE FIGHTERS)....

                And in general, 40mm AGS, especially with an increased firing sector, and even with remote detonation, and even with ammunition selectivity, could be very useful (but this is already a pipe dream)

                That is, you are right in the sense that it is called and deciphered in a way that does not correspond to its actual use.
                1. 0
                  13 November 2025 09: 09
                  For self-defense, a turret with a machine gun needs to be trained to find and shoot at drones with sufficient accuracy. The technology for this exists; we just need to conduct R&D to obtain specific performance characteristics, and perhaps develop some kind of recognition algorithm.
                  Create a standard turret solution that can be deployed on any armor or simply in the field from a power source.
                  If drones start to be effectively fired back with automatic weapons, the effectiveness of such weapons will drop sharply.
                  I'm at the range with a Kalashnikov, not a shotgun, and I usually hit a drone with my first shot, a single shot, from 30-35 meters away, without any training. I don't think that's a problem for automatic weapons.
                  1. 0
                    14 November 2025 03: 26
                    Quote: multicaat
                    For self-defense, a turret with a machine gun needs to be trained to find and shoot at drones with sufficient accuracy. The technology for this exists; we just need to conduct R&D to obtain specific performance characteristics, and perhaps develop some kind of recognition algorithm.
                    Create a standard turret solution that can be deployed on any armor or simply in the field from a power source.
                    If drones start to be effectively fired back with automatic weapons, the effectiveness of such weapons will drop sharply.
                    I'm at the range with a Kalashnikov, not a shotgun, and I usually hit a drone with my first shot, a single shot, from 30-35 meters away, without any training. I don't think that's a problem for automatic weapons.


                    In the hands of inquisitive and highly effective domestic managers!?

                    I'm sure they'll definitely be researching and developing similar products online, but they'll be doing it competently, following all the GOSTs and SNIPs, with feeling, thought, and precision, but naturally, with a certain amount of speed, and naturally, rich and expensive.

                    It seems like everything has already been done there a long time ago, both for tanks on the turret and for aircraft in the form of self-defense turret installations.
                  2. 0
                    14 November 2025 03: 43
                    Quote: multicaat
                    Maybe we should think up some kind of recognition algorithm.


                    Here, various people (including me) have posted that it might be possible to do this using a combination of a three-kopeck presence/motion sensor and microphones (tuned to the frequency ranges of propellers and engines).

                    Again, this has already been done in aviation and on tanks.

                    I posted here that somewhere around here they even put a price tag on an acoustic anti-drone system (Babay, I think)

                    What to shoot down is already the tenth matter, a machine gun is a machine gun, an AGS with buckshot is an AGS, rockets are rockets, shrapnel-smoke mortars, and this and that and everything is the same.

                    I'm more interested in thinking about how something can be done now within the framework of repair battalions (without R&D).
                    1. 0
                      14 November 2025 08: 52
                      Quote: Eng Mech
                      as is already the case within the framework of repair battalions

                      No way. We don't have an adequate guidance system produced anywhere.
                      Everything is aimed manually, but unfortunately, most soldiers are incredibly bad at hitting such targets. Personally, I've never had a problem hitting a flying duck or a drone, so I don't understand why.
                      But an effective mass-produced system can't be developed at the repair battalion level. Industrial mass production of a ready-made guidance system solution is needed. Everything else can be done in the field.
                      1. 0
                        14 November 2025 09: 11
                        Quote: multicaat
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        as is already the case within the framework of repair battalions

                        No way. We don't have an adequate guidance system produced anywhere.
                        Everything is aimed manually, but unfortunately, most soldiers are incredibly bad at hitting such targets. Personally, I've never had a problem hitting a flying duck or a drone, so I don't understand why.
                        But an effective mass-produced system can't be developed at the repair battalion level. Industrial mass production of a ready-made guidance system solution is needed. Everything else can be done in the field.


                        It is natural that it is impossible to create a mass system at the repair battalion level.

                        It's also clear (to me) that your absolutely sound idea doesn't have a purely technical solution (at least in terms of speed, quality, and mass production). That's precisely why I don't count on such approaches and don't discuss such topics (out loud, publicly).

                        With the exception of those that are very interesting from a purely technical and economic point of view (from my amateur perspective).
                      2. 0
                        14 November 2025 09: 13
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        has no purely technical solution

                        The Americans already implemented something similar in the early 80s in the Aegis system.
                        Now 40 years have passed and it seems to have become easier.
                      3. 0
                        14 November 2025 09: 15
                        Quote: multicaat
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        has no purely technical solution

                        The Americans already implemented something similar in the early 80s in the Aegis system.
                        Now 40 years have passed and it seems to have become easier.


                        You do not understand.

                        I'll be banned at the very least.

                        The damned communists have raised a stinking finger at the state here too: they didn't have time to implement a proper drone recognition system for their galoshes and didn't finish the armata.
                      4. 0
                        14 November 2025 09: 16
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        You do not understand.

                        Now I understand. Sorry.
                      5. 0
                        14 November 2025 10: 12
                        By the way, what do you think about this Droneboy as a shooter?

                        What if it is in the form of
                        manually rotating revolver attachment with a gap between the barrel cut

                        and a nozzle of the caliber of a signal flare gun

                        and with charges either with a hole in the middle or with a bullet trap for firing live ammunition

                        Thank you.
                      6. 0
                        14 November 2025 10: 40
                        Although I shoot well, I only shoot with bullets and from a prepared barrel.
                        I'm no gunsmith. I can't say anything about this device. It could probably improve shooters' efficiency, but it only partially solves the problem. Drones need to be detected and destroyed at a considerable distance, and letting them get close is a bit of a challenge. Eventually, they might be equipped with something like a similar shooter, and the problem will arise all over again.
                      7. 0
                        14 November 2025 10: 48
                        Quote: multicaat
                        Although I shoot well, I only shoot with bullets and from a prepared barrel.
                        I'm no gunsmith. I can't say anything about this device. It could probably improve shooters' efficiency, but it only partially solves the problem. Drones need to be detected and destroyed at a considerable distance, and letting them get close is a bit of a challenge. Eventually, they might be equipped with something like a similar shooter, and the problem will arise all over again.


                        Well, it's like self-defense as a last resort.

                        I literally just recently read that the communists were distracted from producing galoshes from time to time by this

                        PSNR-5 "Credo"
                        SBR-3 "Fara"

                        But so far, I haven't read anything about them other than the fact that they are quite compact detection devices.
                      8. 0
                        14 November 2025 11: 03
                        The Chinese have developed the first prototypes of automatic drone killers – we need to see what they come up with.
                        For example, at the parade they had a combat laser on display, which is guided by a system capable of accurately targeting a flying drone.
                      9. 0
                        14 November 2025 11: 06
                        Quote: multicaat
                        The Chinese have developed the first prototypes of automatic drone killers – we need to see what they come up with.
                        For example, at the parade they had a combat laser on display, which is guided by a system capable of accurately targeting a flying drone.


                        Of course, you are right and this is necessary.

                        But I won’t repeat what interests me most and for what reason.
                      10. 0
                        14 November 2025 11: 17
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        what interests me most

                        It is possible to negotiate the supply of ready-made guidance systems, even in a black box version.
                      11. 0
                        16 November 2025 12: 03
                        Quote: multicaat
                        Quote: Eng Mech
                        what interests me most

                        It is possible to negotiate the supply of ready-made guidance systems, even in a black box version.


                        Maybe.

                        But I don't care.
                  3. 0
                    19 November 2025 23: 02
                    Quote: multicaat
                    For self-defense, a turret with a machine gun needs to be trained to find and shoot at drones with sufficient accuracy. The technology for this exists; we just need to conduct R&D to obtain specific performance characteristics, and perhaps develop some kind of recognition algorithm.
                    Create a standard turret solution that can be deployed on any armor or simply in the field from a power source.
                    If drones start to be effectively fired back with automatic weapons, the effectiveness of such weapons will drop sharply.
                    I'm at the range with a Kalashnikov, not a shotgun, and I usually hit a drone with my first shot, a single shot, from 30-35 meters away, without any training. I don't think that's a problem for automatic weapons.


                    My response and comments to all your absolutely reasonable suggestions, comments and questions will be your own response to the following question:
                    "Do you think Puchey doesn't have this complex (which is probably 45 years old) modified/upgraded for anti-drone conditions?"

                    https://m.vk.com/wall-46943161_346180
      2. +2
        15 October 2025 09: 55
        Quote: multicaat
        The whole concept of this BMPT is very crude and poorly thought out.

        The entire concept of the BMPT is a far-fetched ploy to embezzle money.
        A tank, the heaviest and most protected vehicle on the battlefield, is obligated to provide support to lighter forces. And suddenly, it needs support itself. It's laughable to even think about a tank facing difficulties retreating under the cover of a BMPT. And if we're talking about direct infantry support, there's no need to belabor the point; it should be a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, which our Ministry of Defense and industry shy away from like the devil from incense. And no wonder. It really would take work to redesign the old tank hull for a front-mounted engine. Are we some kind of Jews with our Achzarit? Apparently, there's no money to be made here. request
        1. 0
          15 October 2025 10: 00
          The problem isn't as simple as it seems – our entire industry suffers from a severe shortage of resources for new development, and the personnel and their experience are poorly suited to this task. I know what I'm talking about – I work at a company with a design bureau, and there are a ton of complaints about the work, qualifications, and discipline of its employees. And the personnel in other places is rarely better. This is exacerbated by the extremely meager supply from suppliers.
          So, we shouldn't expect miracles, but damn, the BMPT project has been going on for 60 years, and there were plenty of prototypes back in the USSR. Hasn't anything worthwhile been invented in all that time?
          1. +1
            15 October 2025 10: 07
            Quote: multicaat
            The problem isn't as simple as it seems—our entire industry suffers from a severe shortage of resources for new development, and the personnel and their experience are poorly suited to this task. I know what I'm talking about—I work at a company with a design bureau, and the work, qualifications, and discipline of its employees are a constant source of complaints. And the personnel in other places are rarely better.

            The problem is as old and simple as "an orange," and of course, it doesn't rule out the cause you described. It's just like with the "auto-basin."
            In short: Industry produces what it can, not what the Ministry of Defense and the front-line army (or, in the case of the "AvtoTaz," the public) need. The Ministry of Defense (and the public) have to accept this, since there's no other option, and there never will be, and it costs good money, not just freebies.
            And in the media space: "We will turn your shameful illness into a feat." (Film "DMB").
            1. +2
              15 October 2025 10: 12
              Well, in fact, Manturov, Sechin, and a number of other senior officials should be fired for indulging in such policies, and with very harsh language – it's sabotage on a national scale. And such sabotage during the Second World War smacks of the death penalty. True, Stalin knew how to force such people to work as the state needed in such cases (for example, Konev, Voronov, etc.). I don't know how to do that.
        2. +3
          15 October 2025 12: 23
          Quote: Adrey
          The entire concept of the BMPT is a far-fetched ploy to embezzle money.

          The entire concept of the BMPT is a response to two eternal problems of our army.
          1. A shortage of infantry. A constant one. There are personnel, but there are very few active bayonets.
          2. If there is infantry, there's no communication with it. None at all. If I remember correctly, Murz wrote that the problem is even at the hardware level—the infantry has no way to communicate with the crew.
          So, they decided to tackle the problem of the lack of infantry and the lack of cooperation head-on: instead of a 10-man squad, they built a lightly armed tank with a crew of 4-6. The tanks would eventually come to an agreement with each other. smile
          Quote: Adrey
          A tank, the heaviest and most protected vehicle on the battlefield, is obliged to provide support to lighter forces. And suddenly, it needed support of its own.

          What can you do? Naked tanks on the battlefield don't last long. The assault on the strongpoint near Debaltseve is a case in point.
          Without infantry, a tank is a target. And infantry... see point 1. So they decided to build this miracle instead.
          1. 0
            15 October 2025 12: 38
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And what to do?

            Yes, I think I agree. It's business as usual with us. Instead of making a working tool, we invent and substitute "cheats" for something that doesn't work. Then we're surprised by the results.
            1. 0
              15 October 2025 22: 12
              No, that's not right, the marshal is talking nonsense again. Tank support must accomplish three tasks.
              Firstly, mine clearance, secondly, evacuation of damaged vehicles and crews, and thirdly, the more modern task of protection against drones.
              It's possible to make an armed vehicle for mine clearance and evacuation of damaged vehicles from the Terminator, simply by adapting it. But there's little space for evacuating crews and the wounded, and there's absolutely no protection against drones.
              It's all simple, but almost no one understands such simple things, especially sailors with marshal's shoulder straps.
              1. 0
                15 October 2025 22: 20
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                No, that's not right, the marshal is talking nonsense again.

                It depends on which side you look at it from.
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                Firstly, mine clearance, secondly, evacuation of damaged vehicles and crews, and thirdly, the more modern task of protection against drones.

                You are pointing out everything correctly (we will leave out point 3, no one has adequately dealt with this yet), but this is rather provision of work (which is assigned to other vehicles - BREM, IMR), and not close fire support on the battlefield, which is the responsibility of the BMPT.
                1. 0
                  15 October 2025 22: 24
                  You yourself wrote just above that a tank is a fighting machine in itself, and I completely agree. And now you've immediately reversed after colliding with the local sailor-marshal? The sailor simply switched on his imagination and got carried away.
                  Fire support for the tank is provided in the form of a self-propelled gun with a wider selection of ammunition, with a larger caliber, and an infantry fighting vehicle with infantry.
                  1. 0
                    15 October 2025 22: 27
                    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                    And now they immediately put it into reverse.

                    Could you please clarify what I "reverse geared" to?
                    1. 0
                      15 October 2025 22: 34
                      They started looking for fire support for the tank. The Terminator is unsuitable for fire support, absolutely unsuitable. The tank itself is a terrible fire machine. Its only weakness is the inability to use shrapnel shells due to the automatic loader and the lack of power of its caliber. These shortcomings were previously supposed to be compensated for by self-propelled guns like the 2S3 Akatsiya, but not by vehicles with 30mm cannons. Now, self-propelled guns have proven too vulnerable to drones, and the Terminator doesn't replace self-propelled guns and doesn't help the tank in any way.
                      1. 0
                        15 October 2025 22: 38
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        They began to look for fire support for the tank.

                        What a strange answer to my question.
                        Quote: Adrey
                        Could you please clarify what I "reverse geared" to?

                        I didn’t even touch on the issue of the need to support a tank with a specialized vehicle, no matter how armed it is.
                        I'm waiting for an answer to my question.
                  2. +1
                    16 October 2025 10: 32
                    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                    Fire support for the tank is provided in the form of a self-propelled gun with a wider selection of ammunition, with a larger caliber, and an infantry fighting vehicle with infantry.

                    No one argues with that. In an ideal army, that's how it is.

                    But the BMPT was developed for a real army. Ours, the invincible and legendary one, where platoons of 20-30 men were a bitter reality back in 2008. And interaction between the branches of the armed forces often exists only in regulations and manuals.
                    And, instead of solving the problem with infantry, communications and interaction, they decided to take the easy way out - give the tanks BMPTs.

                    Another example of such a palliative solution is the BMP-3: instead of interacting with artillery and tanks, they decided to give the squad its own personal high-explosive mortar.
                    1. 0
                      16 October 2025 10: 38
                      The BMPT looks more like a design itch than an attempt to solve anything on the battlefield.
          2. VlK
            +1
            15 October 2025 15: 40
            What can you do? Naked tanks on the battlefield don't last long. The assault on the strongpoint near Debaltseve is a case in point.
            Without infantry, a tank is a target. And infantry... see point 1. So they decided to build this miracle instead.

            So maybe we shouldn't just throw them at unsuppressed firing points, but rather crush them with modern precision weapons first, then crush the strongpoint into rubble, and only then move in to collect the surviving prisoners and trophies? How much longer can we wage war with the blood of "assault" infantry like we used to? Where can we even find that much of it now?
            1. 0
              15 October 2025 22: 41
              You're not far from the truth. The task of breaching defenses should be accomplished by artillery. In today's world, that includes TOSs and drones.
              1. 0
                16 October 2025 09: 02
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                You're not far from the truth. The task of breaching defenses should be accomplished by artillery. In today's world, that includes TOSs and drones.

                Absolutely yes.
                But there's probably no way to avoid using highly protected equipment during assault operations.

                For example, during the assault on the Mannerheim Line, the T-28 proved itself well (I consider the T-28 to be the closest known analogue of the BMPT-AGS)

                During the fighting on the Karelian Isthmus, T-28 tanks were used for precisely their intended purpose—to support troops breaking through heavily fortified positions. And despite the fact that these vehicles were designed to meet the requirements of the early 30s, they performed remarkably well.

                https://otvaga2.tmweb.ru/tanki/v-stroyu/tank-t-28-2/?ysclid=mgsy0bf4kd996035887

                For me personally, the whole question comes down to the question of what specialized vehicles are needed and whether heavy armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles with a landing squad+ are needed at all, and not
                for example (as an example):
                * Tank with a landing group of 3-4 people (with weapons for relatively long-range combat)
                * BMOP in the form of a Combat Vehicle of Fire Support (or, if you prefer, an assault vehicle) with relatively light and rapid-fire weapons for relatively close combat and a landing group of 3-4 people
                * Engineering vehicle for clearing passages with a landing group of sappers/assault engineers (3-4 people)
        3. +1
          15 October 2025 16: 06
          Quote: Adrey
          The entire concept of the BMPT is a far-fetched ploy to embezzle money.
          A tank, the heaviest and most protected vehicle on the battlefield, is obliged to provide support to lighter forces. And suddenly, it needed support of its own.

          It seemed that way during the interwar period, but the experience of the early Great Patriotic War showed that tanks, separated from infantry, were quite helpless and easily destroyed by the enemy.
          Things got worse when helicopters, anti-tank missiles, and drones appeared. A tank can't withstand all of this alone; it needs support that can operate in the same formations and have similar protection. This thinking led to the development of the BMPT.
          Why a BMPT and not a heavy infantry fighting vehicle? Firstly, a BMPT is simpler and perhaps better protected than a heavy infantry fighting vehicle. A BMPT can accommodate more weapons and ammunition, allowing for more effective independent armament channels. With a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, you have to choose between the size of the landing force, its protection, and the number of ammunition and weapons.
          The optimal combination for today: tank + BMPT + TBTR
          And the second line should include a surface-to-air missile and gun system capable of protecting the strike force from helicopters and UAVs on the battlefield (Pantsir-SM-SV, Derivatsiya PVO, or Skyranger 35). All strike vehicles should also be equipped with an active protection system capable of intercepting not only ATGMs but also UAVs.
          1. VlK
            0
            15 October 2025 16: 27
            Perhaps the very concept of frontal assaults on defenses, whether by infantry or armor, is already outdated in the 21st century, and it's time to move to primarily remote combat methods? Both men and armored vehicles have simply become too expensive to be wasted as consumables and then endlessly replenished. After all, what we see today is still a 19th-century relic—attacking masses of infantry on enemy positions with the goal of capturing them. The approach itself has essentially remained unchanged.
            1. 0
              15 October 2025 16: 56
              Quote: VlK
              , in essence, nothing has changed in the approach itself

              Nothing has changed since ancient times. Territory is not considered captured until a foot soldier sets foot on it.
              Blitzkrieg, air-land operations and the concept of "coordinated ground combat operations" are only attempts to make it easier for infantry to solve this problem.
              1. VlK
                0
                15 October 2025 17: 00
                So the difference is that either the infantry "fights until it bleeds, chest to chest," putting their lives on the line and "who will win," or they come and settle in on a previously damaged object. It seems that we are technically already close to the second, maybe it's just a matter of the old stereotype of thinking?
                1. 0
                  15 October 2025 18: 35
                  Quote: VlK
                  Maybe it's just a matter of old stereotypes of thinking?

                  The SVO as a whole is not an indicator of the triumph of military thought and strategy; rather, it can be characterized as: “well, that’s how it turned out.”
        4. 0
          15 October 2025 20: 29
          Of course it's been wasted! Back when infantry burned tanks with bottles in villages, and you couldn't even look out of the turret because of the barrage. For five years, starting in 2014, they debated whether to build it or not. They also needed to add Gatling guns for drones and infantry. You can never have too many weapons.
          1. 0
            15 October 2025 20: 39
            Quote: John22
            When in villages the infantry burned tanks with bottles and it was impossible to stick your head out of the turret because of the heavy fire.

            How will the BMPT help in this situation? Will it become another target?
      3. 0
        15 October 2025 16: 53
        The whole concept of this BMPT is very crude and poorly thought out. It was simply cobbled together from whatever was at hand. I guess that's just the way it should be when there's only a month left for the decisive battle.

        It was sculpted in the last millennium.
    3. 0
      14 November 2025 05: 27
      Quote: Ing Mech
      The Berezhok module, however, breaks down if there is a 3-person crew and a grenade launcher is still needed.

      Only then LSHO-57 would be ideal.

      And Mr. Gusev already proposed a tower with automatic grenade launchers and anti-tank missiles, but then at least 4 people would be needed.


      To be fair, there is a DUBM Spica-AGS for the BA shot.

      But, probably, his ammo is not very good and he definitely doesn’t have missiles if they are needed.
  11. 0
    15 October 2025 08: 30
    Tank is also not spiritually sacred!!

    However, GuslePush will have to be renamed.

    And this one will be an under-destroyer
  12. 0
    15 October 2025 09: 36
    As an option, you can install a Nona cannon in the standard turret: it’s perfect for firing from closed positions.
    1. +1
      15 October 2025 10: 15
      Quote: Melior
      As an option, you can install a Nona cannon in the standard turret: it’s perfect for firing from closed positions.

      The train of thought is correct, but the solution is insufficient.
      The vehicle requires gun stabilization for firing on the move, a corresponding ballistic computer, a detonation programmer, and serious target designation tools to realize the capabilities of such an artillery system.
      Moreover, the BMPT must be able to coordinate combat because it has the greatest situational awareness. No one thinks about that at all.
      1. 0
        15 October 2025 15: 30
        Quote: multicaat
        Moreover, the BMPT must be able to coordinate combat because it has the greatest situational awareness. No one thinks about that at all.

        The Chinese have thought about this in their Type 100 combat pair: tank + BMPT.
        In the Chinese BMPT Type 100, UAV operators sit in the troop compartment, who coordinate the work of the combat group and provide situational awareness + can engage hidden enemies that are inaccessible to the standard armament of the tank and BMPT
  13. +1
    15 October 2025 09: 38
    "This summer, which has already given way to a gloomy autumn, a public vote was announced to determine what proper name to give to the tank support combat vehicle. The name "Terminator" was said to be no longer very patriotic. It's still a bourgeois name, after all."
    Well, instead of "Terminator" you could say "Cyborg Killer" (in a nasal voice) Yes laughing
    1. VlK
      +2
      15 October 2025 16: 39
      How can we possibly do without contests, festivals, and competitions in military development? This is apparently already inevitable.
  14. 0
    15 October 2025 10: 42
    Quote: olegff68
    These "terminators" are absolutely useless equipment today on the battlefield where drones rule.
    That's why they're making BMPTs today: to protect tanks from drone attacks.
    1. 0
      15 October 2025 12: 49
      Quote: Schneeberg
      That's why they're making BMPTs today: to protect tanks from drone attacks.

      And how do they protect tanks from drones?
      1. +3
        15 October 2025 14: 07
        Quote: Adrey
        And how do they protect tanks from drones?

        Apparently, forcing the enemy to use these drones on themselves.
        1. 0
          15 October 2025 17: 23
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Apparently, forcing the enemy to use these drones on themselves.

          I thought so too.
  15. +2
    15 October 2025 12: 55
    However, the vehicle lacks automatic grenade launchers.


    But this is in vain, an AGS is needed, but not a course one, but one placed on the combat module behind the 2A42 and operating in light mortar mode.
    When fighting in urban areas or mountainous terrain, direct fire is often impossible, but throwing grenades over a house or onto the back of a hill is an easy task for an AGS.
    1. +1
      15 October 2025 15: 25
      Quote: assault

      But this is in vain, an AGS is needed, but not a course one, but one placed on the combat module behind the 2A42 and operating in light mortar mode.

      There's the 57mm 2A94 autocannon (LShO), which is installed in the BM Epoch. But if the Epoch were installed on the BMPT, all economic benefits would be lost for UVZ, as most of the added value would have to be transferred to the Tula Design Bureau. So they're stuck with their own combat module.
      1. 0
        15 October 2025 22: 46
        It's also possible that the Epoch is either a crude design or not ready for production. Otherwise, it would have already been built on the BMP-3 chassis, at least as an experimental vehicle.
      2. 0
        22 October 2025 18: 19
        Cympak
        There is a 57-mm autocannon 2A94 (LShO), which is installed in the BM Epoch.

        Can the 2A94 really fire at a mortar?
        This gun, unlike the AGS, will not be able to provide direct fire and support for attack aircraft behind high-rise buildings or on neighboring streets.
        1. 0
          22 October 2025 19: 24
          Considering that the 2A94 cannon grew out of the LShO/AGS-57, it is quite capable of operating along an elevated trajectory, and the main limitation in this case may only be the vertical aiming angle.
  16. 545
    +1
    15 October 2025 12: 59
    I'm no expert, but seeing how quickly progress is happening, I think it's time to try creating a 20mm shrapnel gun and mount it on a dummy vehicle with a small radar and video camera. Mount it slightly higher so it can shoot through a heavy infantry fighting vehicle. Pure defense against drones, nothing more.
  17. -3
    15 October 2025 13: 16
    Thank you. Thank God it's a normal, humane article. Yesterday I read an ad for the Ukrainian-German Cheetah and was horrified.
    Once again, thank you very much.
    1. +1
      15 October 2025 16: 47
      Quote: Nikolai
      Thank you. Thank God it's a normal, humane article. Yesterday I read an ad for the Ukrainian-German Cheetah and was horrified.
      Once again, thank you very much.

      You need to know and respect your opponent, and not be shy about using his useful ideas and developments in your products.
      For now, we have this: "Comrade Minister of Defense, the enemy's weaponry is inferior to our technology and is of no interest for study..."
  18. +2
    15 October 2025 14: 27
    The T72's turret accounts for about a third of its weight and slightly less than half the cost of the entire tank. If we were to build a combat vehicle, we'd also need a tank mine clearing vehicle, as mines still account for a significant number of losses. Judging by the video, mines are the second-most dangerous threat after drones. The resources devoted to an unmanned tank would be much better spent on an assault mine clearing vehicle, driving ahead of the heavy infantry fighting vehicles.
  19. 0
    15 October 2025 16: 09
    Quote from AdAstra
    Why in English letters? laughing

    Nobody asks why the UAZ is called a Patriot or a Hunter. And the plane (which doesn't exist yet) is called Check Mate.
  20. VlK
    -1
    15 October 2025 16: 15
    The BMPT concept is a dead end and completely irrelevant today. It was devised for the wars before and after, to escort convoys in mountainous and forested terrain against militant ambushes, and to support the clearing of urban settlements from terrorists entrenched in them with small arms and individual RPGs. And, of course, to drive ISIS carts across the Syrian desert. And even earlier, to shoot down those same grenade launcher operators in trenches during a tank company's attack on an enemy stronghold.
    A modern ASSAULT tank (if it were ever designed and developed, and not in the form of today's self-propelled anti-tank gun with a turret) cannot rely on the support of other vehicles when operating in a pair at point-blank range; it should perform its primary function independently. There's no need to multiply entities. It lacks a 30mm cannon, an AGS, and a CC machine gun—it simply needs such a dual-purpose turret, with 360-degree traverse independent from the main gun. A single 152mm high-explosive fragmentation shell from a low-ballistics, high-angle cannon (for use in urban areas and mountainous terrain) will easily replace two 30mm hammers at any range. It can also fire an ATGM at heavy armored vehicles. A standard lowblow trailer, a standard removable bulldozer blade, enhanced mine protection, and dynamic protection against anti-tank weapons—what else is needed for what tanks essentially do today? It certainly doesn't need its own drone; crew awareness should be enhanced by modern, redundant observation devices and information from external sources, starting with the unit commander directing the battle, via a secure communications channel. Such a vehicle, returning the tank to its original battlefield mission—breaking through a fortified defensive line—will effectively replace the current MBT.
    But all this, of course, will not work without a system of protection against loitering munitions, and perhaps this is what is holding back the real development of armored vehicles today.
    1. +2
      15 October 2025 19: 58
      What you have calculated will weigh 100+ tons and will not get anywhere.
      2 chassis is more logical.
      1. VlK
        0
        15 October 2025 20: 09
        You'll never have both chassis in the right place at the right time (not even during exercises) in sufficient numbers to accomplish the mission. In war, you always fight with what's at hand, not with what's redeployed somewhere along the way. In my humble opinion, this concept is as stillborn as the complementary large anti-submarine ship-attack destroyer pair in the Soviet Navy, and that's despite our perennial shortage of ships. It's simply a product of the imagination of peacetime military theorists.
        In terms of weight, it's clear that the armor system will have to be revised to address new threats, reducing and redistributing it in favor of active defense—exactly the same thing happened in the navy about 80 years ago. So, there you have it, an obvious reserve.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. 0
    15 October 2025 19: 02
    "...They say the name 'Terminator' has become less than patriotic. It's still a bourgeois name after all..." Astronomers are crying! The dividing line between the sunlit and darkened sides of the Moon.
  23. +1
    15 October 2025 21: 41
    Yeah, screw it, avtor, the Leopard-1 is being modernized and fighting, but here the T-72 is bad
  24. -1
    15 October 2025 22: 51
    They are creating complete nonsense again.
    ATGMs are now completely useless.
    Ammunition inside the tank hull.
    Firepower makes no sense.
    the essence of the war has changed.
    Another mass grave with zero results.
  25. -1
    16 October 2025 02: 41
    But do these tanks actually exist, requiring support on the battlefield? Against whom should they be supported? Against drones? Or against long-range artillery?
  26. +1
    16 October 2025 14: 08
    But it seems to me that we first need to make a heavy infantry fighting vehicle with a diesel engine in the front, and then, during production, according to the request from the Ministry of Defense, make some BMP/APC/BMPT, maybe some other vehicles.
  27. 0
    17 October 2025 05: 37
    Or maybe we could install a small-caliber machine gun chambered for 0.22LR (5.6 mm) to shoot down drones. They made those a hundred years ago; 1800 rounds per minute is easy. And the ammo takes up little space.
    It would also be nice to invent a low-impulse grenade for the 30mm cannon. Or one that could fire two or three grenades in a single shot (but at a low velocity, with a lob).
  28. +1
    18 October 2025 19: 40
    Judging by footage from the front line, all equipment, including small air defense systems and all types of ammunition, is being destroyed by drones on both sides. In practice, the lead vehicle is covered with steel plate, and begins to resemble an assault gun. This approach could be followed by modernization, with several turretless assault vehicles being produced with maximum protection, but not homemade, but factory-made. Alternatively, it could be converted into a remote-controlled mine-clearing vehicle.
    1. 0
      19 October 2025 03: 58
      Well, by the way, yes (I even saw a patent for a baited self-propelled gun based on a modern tank somewhere)

      If we talk about the crew of the frontmost obstacle clearance vehicle, then something very large-caliber short-barreled is breaking in the performance of either

      * The chopper self-propelled gun was lured to the limit
      * strv 103 lured to the extreme
      * VT1 (Leopard 3) with PU barrels in over-track shelves with a revolver loading at the back of the main body, which is entangled to the extreme

      I like vt1

      See front view without the mangal
      Rear view with barbecue


      By the way, the same BMO-T with a king-sized barbecue, and on top of the barbecue, an era with Lsho might also be interesting.
      1. 0
        19 October 2025 09: 16
        I repeat again, to protect armored vehicles from drones, you can try to adapt a shot blasting machine similar to the one used in factories to clean castings. This is a simple device: cast iron shot is fed into a stream of compressed air and the pellets fly at a speed of 50-60 m / s, this is enough to destroy an attacking tank or plastic drone at a distance of 10-15 m. Since the shot blasting machine will not work continuously, you can get by with a small compressor and a cylinder of compressed air. Naturally, you need a system for detecting attacking drones and an automatic guidance system, and since the pellets fly apart in a cone, there should be no problems with hitting the target.
        1. 0
          19 October 2025 09: 32
          Quote: agond
          I repeat again, to protect armored vehicles from drones, you can try to adapt a shot blasting machine similar to the one used in factories to clean castings. This is a simple device: cast iron shot is fed into a stream of compressed air and the pellets fly at a speed of 50-60 m / s, this is enough to destroy an attacking tank or plastic drone at a distance of 10-15 m. Since the shot blasting machine will not work continuously, you can get by with a small compressor and a cylinder of compressed air. Naturally, you need a system for detecting attacking drones and an automatic guidance system, and since the pellets fly apart in a cone, there should be no problems with hitting the target.

          The problem is in detection and guidance.
          Also, being personally familiar with the device, it probably takes time for it to reach its design mode.

          If the problem of detection and targeting is solved, then it is sufficient to have a belt-fed shotgun, or a bunch of smoke grenade launchers that also fire pellets in the desired direction.

          Not to mention the adaptation of the once existing aft artillery dubm on aircraft and other existing turret dubm
  29. 0
    19 October 2025 09: 11
    Is there somewhere a correct copy of the article by V. Pankov and S. Manezhkin? CONCEPT OF CONSTRUCTING A TANK SUPPORT COMBAT VEHICLE
    1. 0
      19 October 2025 14: 56
      Quote: Eng Mech

      The problem is in detection and guidance.
      If the problem of detection and targeting is solved, then it is sufficient to have a belt-fed shotgun, or a bunch of smoke grenade launchers that also fire pellets in the desired direction.
      Not to mention the adaptation of the once existing aft artillery dubm on aircraft and other existing turret dubm

      The issue of detecting an attacking drone at an approach speed of, say, 30 m/s at a range of 15-20 m against the sky cannot be an insurmountable problem, just as the issue of aiming a shot blasting machine cannot be a problem. If the solid angle of the shot dispersion is about 45 degrees, then a guaranteed hit on the drone at a distance of 5-7 m is very likely.
      1. 0
        19 October 2025 15: 59
        Quote: agond
        Quote: Eng Mech

        The problem is in detection and guidance.
        If the problem of detection and targeting is solved, then it is sufficient to have a belt-fed shotgun, or a bunch of smoke grenade launchers that also fire pellets in the desired direction.
        Not to mention the adaptation of the once existing aft artillery dubm on aircraft and other existing turret dubm

        The issue of detecting an attacking drone at an approach speed of, say, 30 m/s at a range of 15-20 m against the sky cannot be an insurmountable problem, just as the issue of aiming a shot blasting machine cannot be a problem. If the solid angle of the shot dispersion is about 45 degrees, then a guaranteed hit on the drone at a distance of 5-7 m is very likely.


        Maybe.

        Thank you.
  30. 0
    19 October 2025 14: 47
    They'll do a good job, the vehicle has potential for development. They won't, as usual, because they don't have the money, but hang in there. After all, the entire line of super tanks and infantry fighting vehicles shown at the Army Games remains a rarity. Although, reading about the scale of theft, it's not surprising.
  31. 0
    19 October 2025 22: 48
    Since when did the term "Terminator" become a bourgeois term? The terminator is a line on the lunar surface dividing the sunlit and unlit parts. Simply put, it's the line of sunrise or sunset.
  32. 0
    24 October 2025 08: 27
    I'd call this design "Elusive Joe." Everyone's been trying to catch it for years...
  33. +1
    24 October 2025 18: 56
    This is excellent news. Mass production of the BMP-2 is long overdue. The fact is, the BMP-2 is the only vehicle in the Russian Armed Forces truly capable of performing tank functions. That is, supporting infantry with direct fire, rather than serving as a self-propelled gun from indirect positions, as most tanks currently do. And if the latter do engage in what's called close combat, they're loaded with barbecues and dickelbrases (which prevent the turret from turning) to the point of complete loss of mobility, and the ammunition stowage is optimized (as the fashionable term for underloading the carousel) to the point of virtually total loss of firepower. The BMP-2, even without grenade launchers, is free of these shortcomings. The ammunition stowage is contained in a metal cartridge case. It's much harder for it to catch fire than tank rounds in combustible packaging. So far, there hasn't been a single photo of a BMP-2 with its turret hurled into the sky. The firepower of even a single 2A42 is comparable to that of a tank gun. Even with a rate of fire of 500 rounds per minute and a shell weight of almost 400 grams, that's a 200-kilogram salvo per minute. A tank has 230-260. And the BMPT has two such guns. The passage about increasing the fuel tanks is unclear. There is no need for long marches now. A cruising range of 150-200 km is sufficient for all the tasks facing armored vehicles on the front lines. Why carry extra fuel in the combat compartment? So that the vehicle burns better? Then external fuel tanks are better. Incidentally, they work very well as protection against shaped-charge ammunition. But active protection a la Arena or something capable of shooting down copters (even an automatic shotgun on the commander's turret (just kidding)) would be very useful. Incidentally, it would also be worthwhile to produce a heavy armored personnel carrier based on old tanks. To complement the infantry fighting vehicles. And to replace the cardboard infantry fighting vehicles. At least like the Syrian APC-55. The fact that the BMO didn't prove itself at the start of the campaign wasn't the fault of the technology, but of the methods used.
  34. +1
    19 December 2025 16: 17
    Only the Russian Ministry of Defense knows about this. Period. The only question is where to direct Russia's funds. Question: Where? Are there other important funding areas? Answer: The Russian Ministry of Defense will decide. Period. And the Russian Ministry of Defense's analytics are doing just fine. Without bloggers and other "analytical centers." It would be better if the article covered how to achieve the desired effectiveness on the battlefield after modernization. How to do it right. Help. Don't write against the wind.
  35. 0
    30 January 2026 16: 30
    For some reason, I feel like we don't use terminators at all, or use them extremely rarely. Perhaps it's because there aren't enough of them, perhaps because they're ineffective. Or maybe I just don't come across them.
  36. 0
    11 February 2026 20: 20
    References to the Russian Ministry of Defense. Thanks to the author for being lenient towards the Russian Armed Forces. But following the principle, it does NOT kill effectively. It seems unconvincing. There are no references for the thesis. This is unacceptable. There are no references to military literature. For example, magazines for the RS Armed Forces. At the very least. Graphomania. Scribbling. No answers. Why? For what purpose? For what purpose?